The Questlove Show - James Alexander of The Bar-Kays Part 1

Episode Date: February 9, 2026

Bar-Kays legend James Alexander joins the Questlove Show for a deeply personal conversation, tracing his journey from a teenage musician playing segregated clubs in Memphis to becoming a cornerstone of Stax Records and a young artist mentored by Otis Redding. James reflects on the spontaneous birth and enduring impact of “Soul Finger,” the hard truths of touring in the 1960s, and the business wisdom Otis shared with him about publishing and ownership. He also speaks with profound honesty about the 1967 plane crash that claimed Redding and most of the Bar-Kays—a tragedy he narrowly escaped—and the long, painful process of grieving, resilience, and ultimately rebuilding the band in its wake.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to.

to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Questlove show is a production of IHeart Radio. All right, y'all. This is a big one. All right, so every year doing Black History Month, we honor the innovators and the cultural architects.

And today is no different. For the past six decades, I will say that our guest has been an amazing, powerful force and music. Definitely an influence in my life and how I hear things. Basically, our guest is one of the musical delegates, the musical forces, from Memphis that we don't talk about enough. We do not talk about. Memphis is such a force of music that it rarely gets the light that it deserves. And as a member of the legendary band The Barcais, you know these songs,

Soul Finger to Son of Shaft to Holy Ghost, especially Holy Ghost, which incidentally I think Holy Ghost is one of the best examples of giving the drummer some that excited an eight-year-old Questlove when he first heard that song. He's both a member of the R&B, the Memphis Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, blending in, and even then that's reductive. Because if you listen to the early work of their out, like their level of rock excitement, it was pretty much like no other band that you would come across in that period.

Of course, collaborating with legends like the great Otis Redding, with Isaac Hayes touring the world, spreading the funk. He's been mentioned in many a QLS episode. Shout out to Jimmy Jam. Hello. I want to welcome the leader of the barcais, James Alexander, to the Questlove show. Welcome, sir. How are you?

What's going on, man? How are you? I had to stay up all night to get here, man. Yeah, I was going to say I appreciate you right now. As we tape, New York is being threatened with, as I hear, describe something deeper than a Nor'Easter, as they're telling me. But yet you made it here on your home. I know that we've been talking for the last couple of years about you coming on the show.

Again, you've been mentioned a lot, and now the time has come. And I thank you for coming here. I appreciate you ever be, man. All right, so we're going to try to get through your life from soup to nuts. I do want what I call an hors d'oeuvre. So I will start with this question. Of all of your Bar-K songs, which is your most favorite? That's a good one there, dude.

I don't know. I mean, you know. Well, your favorite to play bass on? My favorite to play bass on would probably still be Soul Finger, believe it or not. Soul Finger, really? Yeah, I mean, maybe you would understand this. Soul Finger is just, it's a song that's very near and dear to me because in the process, you know, groups send tapes in to record conferences and stuff or whatever.

But see, back in the day, we had to audition live. So what happened is... It should still be that way right now. Yeah. So we were playing at a nightclub illegally, of course, because we were like... Were you underage? Yeah. How old were you?

16 years old. Were they carting back then for real, for real? Yeah, of course. They were carding, like, you had to be over. Yeah, you had to be over. And see, Memphis had the vice squad. The vice squad is like ice. Okay.

For musicians. No, they come in, no, they come in to a nightclub and they check everybody in the nightclub. Check their IDs. If you're underage, they didn't take you the only thing now they didn't take you to jail,

they just call your parents and tell them to come pick your manners up and bring them home. But anyway, we're playing in this nightclub, and we're playing behind this guy by the name of Norman West, who was one of the members of the soldier. And we play on a song by J.J. Jackson called,

but it's all right. So every night, now you mind you, you have to say that we have some youngsters. Every night we get to a certain portion of the song and we do, for lack of a better word, a breakdown, but, you know, 16 years ago, we didn't know what it was doing. But we did know this. We started looking around at each other and say,

oh, damn, this is something here. So we remember that. So we had to go in an audition that Stacks Records. And we auditioned. Steve Cropa was the A&R. guy. Okay. We auditioned for him. And he said, man, I appreciate y'all coming up in an audition, but, you know, y'all just, y'all don't quite have it. And so, you know, bust out a little bubble. But he said, I'll tell you what, I'll let you come back and do it again. So we came back.

The second time, he said, no, no. But as we were leaving the second time, a little short guy, a little white guy by the name of Jim Stewart saw us. He said, amen. What's going on here? I said, we just was up here auditioned. Who are y'all? We just a little band. He said, I tell you what, I saw everything that's been happening, so would y'all come back up

and audition for me? Come on a Sunday, the studio is closed. Nobody would be here with me and y'all. So we came. So we got to the studio, and we started playing something. He said, what is that? We don't, I mean, we don't know. We don't know what the hell we're doing.

We're just doing some shit, okay? You didn't name the songs or anything? No, we didn't. Now, when you're auditioning, what's the repertoire? How long do you have to make an impression? Is it one song, two songs, or? For us, we just played a little vibe. And because we had playing this little vibe in the club every night,

we say, shit, we just started off with that little vibe. So he said, what the hell is that? We said, we don't know. But anyway, he ran up in the control room. You know, it wasn't no essay. L.S. L. Naves, nothing. A little bored about like this, you know. In fact, he had one of the first

four-track Scully tape machines, you know, the thing that the Beatles cut, Sergeant Peppers. Anyway, yeah. He didn't even have a talkback button, so he just gave us a signal. She said, play it from the top. Our trumpet player came up with this little nursery rhyme horn line.

Yeah. And the drummer hit a break. And it was on. Then he said, come up and listen to it. So 30 minutes later, we had Soul Finger. So that is the definitive version of Soul Finger? That's it. Where did the kids come from?

A person that's been on your show, it was this idea, David Porter. Really? There was a convenience store across the street from Stacks. He went over to the convenience store and got a case of Coca-Cola. You know, the wooden case, 24-biles on a case. Oh, God, don't tell me about to pay off a soda. We didn't even have a bottle opener. So what he told the guy at the store,

just take the bottle over it and open it. And then put it at the top. Right. So got the kids from the neighborhood. Put them around one mic and said, I'm going to direct you. So when I direct you, you say Soul Figure, right? And that's how it came out.

That's how it came about. And you paid those kids in soda? A soda. Ten house Coca-Cola. Okay, so I have a follow-up question for Soul Figure. because I've had two other guests on the show give their version of a song that sort of sparked a controversial situation. And I'm speaking of Ray Parker Jr. and Huey Lewis. Now, this is all I'm saying.

I believe that the story was when they were making Ghostbusters, they wanted Huey Lewis's I want a new drug in the movie. somehow I guess whoever got the message to Huey about this movie whatever and his Ghostbusters that sounds like dumb no rejected and then they came back again you know for real can you clear the song he's like a ghost film that sounds dumb no so they asked him I think three or four times and he was like adamantly no so then they gave up went to Ray Parker Jr. Now you know and we're going to get into this later I'm no stranger to In other words, they play a song, you listen to the song, then you flip the song, and then it's a new song. So I'm assuming that's what Ray Parker did, which was, okay, well, I'll make something that's in the area close to it. And of course, Huey Lewis sued Ray Parker, Jr., I think successfully. And they'd never, I think part of the clause was that they were not allowed to talk about the case. but obviously Hughie Lewis felt some sort of way

that this song is my song but when my dad and I first heard Ghostbusters my dad goes to the record play he says that's nothing but an updated version of this and he plays me

da-da-da-d-d-da-d-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- Oh, she shouldn't have told me that I'm going to sue Ray Parker again Wait no no That's my dear friend I ain't going I wouldn't do that to it So I'm just saying that when you heard Ghostbusters at any time did you say, hey, wait a minute?

No. The answer is no. Okay. Sorry, Ray. I wasn't trying to put you in the spot. That's all I wanted to do. I would do that to Ray, no way. All right.

I want to know how music entered your life. What was your first musical memory? Well, in Memphis, there's a place called Handy Park, downtown on Bill Street. Mm-hmm. Unbeknownst to me, my mom took me down on Bill Street to Handy Park. I had to be, I don't know, six or seven years, I can't remember exactly, but she took me downtown to Handy Park

to see B.B. King and Bobby Blue Blan, and they had taken two flatbed trucks, backed them together, and made a stage out of it. That was my first recollection of the music. But what happened that particular day, unbeknownst to me, it kind of got into my DNA. I didn't know it at the time, but, you know,

I took a liking to the whole scene, the whole thing, the whole music thing. It didn't hurt that my brother was a big jazz buff, not a musician or anything like that, but just collecting jazz, you know, Coltrane, Miles Davis, the alone of your smock,

all of that stuff, Paul Chambers, which, yeah, all of that stuff. So you're growing up in a city that also has given us, Aretha Franklin, Marys White, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, John of Cash, Elvis Presley, Al Green, even. In the musical ecosystem, are you running into an unknown David Porter, an unknown Isaac Hayes? Like, talk about just the ecosystem of Memphis, like, how small is the

city in terms of its musical community and who were you sort of social? interacting with before you became an artist. Like, oh, yeah, I knew da-da-da, when we were 12 years old in the same school. Well, I was in the marching band. I was in the, you start in junior high school, I was in the marching band. You're not going to believe this.

I always wanted to play drums. But what happened is I went to the band room and the band director said, you know, I want you stand up, state your name. I said, James Alexander. What do you want to play? I want to play drums. I have my drumsticks and everything, right?

He said, well, I'm sorry, we don't need any more drummers, but we have an opening for tuba players. And I said, oh, shit, tuba players. Because back then, they didn't have the fiberglass tubas. All the tubes were mellowed. Okay. Okay? But I wanted to be in the band so bad.

So I said, shit. I mean, you know, this is my only shot. So started out with the tuba. So with the tuba, you know, he suggested that I take the tuba home, you know, so I could learn how to play it. So, but the bail was so big, you know, the bus that I used to ride home, the bell couldn't fit inside the bus. So I had to walk home with the tuba. How heavy was it? It took me about maybe 30 minutes to walk home.

But all walking home, you know, this big tuba, you know, kids and stuff throwing paper all up in the barrel of the tuba. Oh, you got that big ass, tuba and all of that. You didn't have a case? There were no tubic cases. No, it wasn't no tubic cases. You just had to carry it. Okay. Yeah.

Like I'm at a parade. Okay. Walking by myself. So, you know, with some friends, they throw in paper. Anyway, that's how I had to get the tuba home. And then when I get it home, you know, my brother, which was like 17 years older to me, I'm trying to learn how to play the tub. Oh, poor.

To him it sounded horrible. Cut the, cut that ragged out. Cut all that noise. out. But, you know, I just kept at it. I was playing football too. I mean, and I kept at the tuba and I started getting, you know, pretty good at it. And then they had a thing in West Tennessee called if you do good in West Tennessee, you get invited to Belmont School of Music, which, or Peebott School of Music, which now is part of Vanderbilt to study, you know, with some other kids. So there were only two black kids from West Tennessee to go to Nashville and study.

with all of the kids from all over Tennessee, me and another guy. He played tour also. We were the only black kids in the whole state for the music summer camp. And by then I had mastered the tuba and all of that. And some kind of way I got interested in bass.

So I started out on Upright. Okay. One of my teachers that bought her son are Upright. And she came to me one day and she said, you know, how about this Upright? for my son, he's not going to get into it. Do you want it? I said, sure.

So she just gave it to me. Now, mind you, that particular upright right now is worth about $8,000. She probably paid maybe $4,500 for it, but it's a blonde, German-made, upright days. You know, with the L-FOLs, I mean, beautiful. Do you still have it? This is a backstory to that.

Okay. I don't know what you want to tell you now. Tell me the backstory. The backstory is, I stayed at home with my parents. And by this time, you know, I was going in and out of town. It was set up in the dining room, you know, on the stand. So I come home one day, where's my base?

I'm asking my brother, right? I don't know. I said, man, where's my base? I said, you just sits in that corner right there. And he kept saying, I don't know. So I had to go south Memphis on him. Where's my email base? Okay.

where's my base? Oh man Man you know I forgot to tell you man I took it to the pawn shop Man and I said Let's call the pawn shop right now You know because you know With pawn shop

If you don't pay on your instrument You know in a certain time They'll sell it So we called They had sold my base Like $700 or some shit Like that

Man I was ready to I was actually was ready to kill my own brother. Why did he do that? unbeknownst to me, he had a gambling problem. You know, I don't know if you know anything about Memphis,

you know, across the bridge or in Westman's name with the dog track. The other side of town. The dog track, you know. So, you know, they had this big book you play the dogs every night. He was going to the dog track

every day, you know, trying to hit. And, you know, got into a jam and pawed my base. So I was willing to kill him. But I was, I was hurt more than anything. So, you know, I started crying and shit.

And, you know, I was hurt. Mm-hmm. You know, I said, wait a man, you know, we got to do this. So before he passed away, you know, we kind of like kissed it made up. I said, you know. This is a lifelong beef. This is. Yeah.

That was. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. My dad went to a pawn shop. My dad worked at a place called Firestone. If you know anything about Memphis, if you work at Firestone, international harvester, all those places, you know, that's a good job.

So unbeknownst to me, my dad went to this pawn shop and put a harmony, bass, and amplifier in the layaway. So I didn't know that he was doing that. And he didn't tell me about it until he went to get it out. So he said, come on, I want you to ride somewhere with me. and he took me down there and he got it out. I think the whole base and the amp I think was about, it wasn't even $200.

I still got the base. But the amp called foul one night. Got you. Got you. What Jimmy Hendricks said it. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to

understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Okay, so me starting elementary school in the 70s, I grew up in a time period where if you were a specialty student, then your parents sent you to like music school, whatever. But, you know, later I found out that in the late 60s, especially with like the Nixon administration, they started taking like music programs out of school. but basically to hear you say it, is it almost as common as lunch period? If you're in school,

whether you have natural music talent or not, you're going to learn an instrument and you will eventually catch on to it? That was most of the case, but it's all about the interest. What happened is back in those days, believe it or not, we had, for lack of a better word,

we had mentors. So if like our band director, if he saw you had a interest, a lot of times didn't have to show that much interest. But if he thought you, you know, wanted to do something, they would kind of help you facilitate to get you on track of doing it.

And so fortunately, my band director, my first band director, he kind of like took an interest in it. And, you know, we'd have a regular band practice, you know, where you learned, you scales, and all of that stuff like that.

And then we would have, after the band practice, you know, where you just learn some other stuff. So that was just the whole big thing. And I'm grateful to grow up around a lot of talented folks. Got you. Was Bill Street for a tourist or was that, was it for real? Well, when I came up, Bill Street was more like, you know, prostitution, you know, drugs and music.

There was a club in the Bill Street area. called Club Handy. It was run by Sunbeam Mitchell. Sunbeam Mitchell had a club, and then he had, in this club, he had like five or six rooms. So when musicians come through, there was not, I mean, you know,

people have to understand the Memphis. Memphis was very segregated back in those days. I mean, you know, you couldn't even stay in certain hotels. You couldn't drink certain water fountains. I mean, you got white water fountains. The colored water fountain. But sun being provided, when musicians come through, you know, some of the greats, he would provide them a room and, you know, in a bowl of chili.

Okay. Yeah. So with people coming through and all that stuff like that, you know, and you aspiring to be in the music venue, and so you go and try to meet some of these people, you know what I mean? I want to know where you enter the barquees. They started in 62, did they not? The barque started around 60, 6, yeah, around that time, 62, 63, somewhere in there.

Okay. Now, I was always under the impression because I would also see credits on Stax records for the Marquise. So for some reason, I always thought that you guys started off that first and then sort of morphed into the Barcais. But were the Marquise a whole other group? That's a whole other group. Okay, so it had nothing to do with... It had nothing to do with the barcaze. Okay, got it.

The barcaze was a group that some guys from several different high schools that started emerging. Actually, the drummer that played in the band with me, started the group. It wasn't called the barcage at that point. They used to rehearse every Saturday. What happened was the bass player for them at that particular point, he could play bass, but he didn't own a bass.

Oh. So James Alexander owned the bass. Because my dad had bought me a bass, remember? Mm-hmm. So I used to ride my bike to their rehearsal every Saturday so he could use my bass so that they could rehearse. This one particular Saturday I rode to their rehearsal. Okay.

And he wasn't there. So they said, hey man, we're ready to start this rehearsal. Base players not here. So who's going to play bass? They said, you. I said, but there's one problem. They said, what's the problem? I can't play.

And so the guitar player said, well, you know what? I'll show you enough to, you know, to get through rehearsals. You know what I mean? To be quite honest, I was fucking up. Bad. But he said, we're going to get you through this. Stylistically, how jarringly different was adjusting to electric bass as opposed to the upright base?

A lot of adjustment for me because my instructor always would tell me, you know, he had this thing hit me on my knuckles because I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't doing my technique correctly. So the fingering and all that stuff. No, the fingering.

I wasn't doing none of that right. But, you know, I just had to do it however I could do it. It was a big difference. Now that you are getting an interest in the base, who are you listening to? Who are you trying to pattern yourself after? I was basically listening to the radio

and at an early age I've been knowing to my parents I started slipping in clubs Okay They're slipping in clubs And there was a guy by the name of A Cleve Shields, better known as Frog He played with a band called

Gene Bowlegs Miller Okay I was listening to him I was listening to another guy By the name of Robert McGee Who played upright And I ended up taking some bass lessons from him Those are the two guys I was listening to

and when I started to learn how to play a little bit, Robert McGee, they had a thing in Memphis called Blue Monday. Okay. And Robert McGee is, I mean, was a great bass player, but he would go to sleep on stage while playing. I mean, he's still playing, he'd go to sleep.

It's been some heavy moonshine or something, I don't know. So what happened is, he said, I got an idea, man. You know, there was a four, a big. All right. So he would play the first part of it. And then he said, man, why don't you come?

And then, you know, I'm going to work you in. And you play the second part. So the band was Ben Branch. Ben Branch. Yes. The Ben Branch. The Ben Branch. Push.

Right. Yes. I forgot. The last person that Martin Luther King spoke to before he. So they had a Monday night thing. Every Monday night. And he was playing the base. And then he played the first half that I come here and play.

second half. The band was fine with that? Like switching? No, no, no. Okay. No, not really. But he said, hey, I'm leaving. I got to go to sleep.

He's going to sleep on stage, messing up. Was it because he was working all day or just? Yeah, because he was a band director in the daytime. Okay. And then, you know, playing gigs at night and stuff. And he and a school teacher, too, so on top of all of that. Oh, no. So he was tired.

So what happened is one of my first experience, Ben Branch called out a song. He said, Start us, five flats, one, two, five flats, five, five, five flats. I know it's D flat, but I said, what, man, you know, I didn't know what the hell to do. You know what I'm saying? But one thing that I learned early on in my teachings, especially the bass player, he said, man, look, if you don't know a song, stand close to the keyboard player and watch his left hand. hand and you would probably, you know, you would learn the changes and all that stuff like that. And I did it.

So I fumbled through it, but I got through it. And then right after that he called Saddoll, I said, oh, my God. I mean, you know. Right, you got through one song and now you got to go through it. Yeah, I got to do this. I mean, you know, I thought they were just going to play some 12 ball blues and stuff like that. I could get through that. Right.

But they're playing standards, you know what I mean? So you jump right into the lake of jazz, not blues. All of that. All of that. So, I mean, you know, and I'm happy to say that gradually I started getting a little better at it. Well, I was going to say you stood in a barque's rehearsal because the other bass player was in there. But you are still a barque. So what happened to that other bass player?

Like he just went AWOL? No, no, no. No, no. What happened is the last time I went to the rehearsal and brought my bass, because I'm used to bringing my bass to the rehearsal, opening the case up, tuning it up, and giving it to him so they can start the rehearsal. So you could tune it. So you were a tech, you were a bass tech.

What we would call a bass tech now, like someone to... Yeah, I mean, but, I mean, let's be honest. I wouldn't tune it up that good because it was still not all the way in tune. But anyway, so what happened is, I'm going to give the bass player my bass, right? And they, the guys, man, what are you doing? I said, I'm giving, so y'all can start rehearsa.

They said, well, guess what? I said, what? He's not the bass player anymore. Well, who is the bass player? They said, you. I said, but there's one thing that y'all should know. And they said, what is that? I can't play.

I got it. And so the guitar player, I mean, the guitar player would, you know, on some songs you play guitar, songs he would play bass. So he really wanted to play guitar. So he taught me a lot of stuff on bass. So how many months did it take you to adjust and really be fair? I would say about six months. Okay. Okay. About six months. I mean, you know, I was, I wasn't great, but I was, you know, good enough to get through a three or four hours set, you know what I mean? So one of the pioneering things about the original iteration of the barquees, which also like another Memphis

group, the MGs, is that this is an interracial band. I didn't know that the original keyboard player for the barque's was a white guy. So just that alone, how radical was that idea during that time period? Well, the first thing we tried to do is everybody was at different high schools. So we're trying to get everybody at the same high school. So you got five black guys and this one white guy. He went to a predominantly white school. So what about he'd go to his parents and say,

look, I want to change and go to Bookerty, Washington High School because my guys are there. His parents hit the freaking ceiling. Okay. Okay. But I have to say he was a radical white boy. He said, I'm going anyway. You know, probably be in reform school or something.

You know, but he said it. And so they, they wasn't with it, but he changed from a predominantly white school to a predominantly black school. He was the only white kid in a predominantly black school. And the black people accepted him. I mean, he didn't have no issues. They didn't try to jump him, you know, out to school

and nothing like that. He had a black girlfriend, the whole nine. He walking in, you know, walking in the projects, Hey, Ronnie, what's going on, man? How you doing? You know, no problem. In Memphis. In Memphis, Tennessee.

In clubs, are you guys playing in, are these segregated clubs? Are these, like, what's the layout of what your gigs are like? We played predominantly black clubs, and then we also played predominantly white clubs. Now, in the white clubs, I remember a club that we played, Papa Willie was the house band. Willie Mitchell was the house band. Okay. And this club had a guardrail around the stage. So there was no way you could go out in the audience.

Behind the drummer, there was a door that led to the parking lot. So on breaks. So in order to get on stage, you would just, you're basically in a cell or a prison. Yeah, you come out on stage. So, I mean, you know, people come over and want to talk to you. So they had to talk to you over the guardrail. know, just a rod-iron fence around the stage. And that was purposely designed so that if Black Axe were hired, they weren't allowed.

Yeah, they didn't want you fraternizing with the Patriots, you know, the people in the club. Man, the odd thing is that I kind of wish I have that system now, not for racial reasons, just to. Yeah, I get it. I want to go on stage, do my show in a state and get out without any, you know, selfies. Yeah, yeah. All right. No, I love my fan base. But I tell you what happened one night

At that particular club, we Elvis Presby had a private party at this club called the Manhattan Club, right? I know I'm skipping around. By this time, I was playing with a band called Isaac Hayes and the doodads. Okay. And I was a doodad.

Okay. We played this club for one year called the Plantation Inn in West Memphis. unfortunate name. Yeah. We play from nine to three. Okay. Six nights a week.

For six hours. For six hours. Okay. For six hours. So when you're doing a residency like that, you're not playing six hours in a row, correct? Like, what's the four minutes? 45 minutes? 15 minute break.

During that 15 minute break, is music in the air? Like, do they have a jukebox or something? Yeah, they have a jukebox. Okay. So music's a constant. Yeah. Constance is gone. Is it the same set six times at night,

or you're learning different songs? No, we're doing different songs. I mean, because, you know, by this time, you know, you end up learning a lot of songs. Okay, good. I mean, you know, every night and then, maybe in the hour one and hours five, you might repeat a song or two.

Okay. But we had different songs. I mean, you know, learned a lot of songs, like the newness of you and my funny violin. I mean, you know, just all of those songs. Then plus whatever. songs were out then, you know.

Was this primarily, well, you said my funny Valentine, so I'm like, those are ballots. Yeah. Like during this period, kids want to dance, do they not? Yeah, well, these were kids, these were grown people in the club. There you go. Yeah, they were grown. I mean, you know, you have to be 21 to get in the club. Got it.

But we were underage, you know, getting in the club. I mean, I think Isaac may have, during those times, he might have been in his early 20s. Got you. So, finish, I interrupted your story. You went to an Elvis Presley. Yeah, we went to Elvis. No, Elvis Presley hired us to play a party. You know, Elvis was always big on, like, for instance,

if he go to amusement park or something like that, he would shut the whole amusement park down and just only somebody would be there with him and his cronies. Okay. Same thing with a club. If he did something at a club, shut the club down, nobody there with him and his cronies. Now, when I watch footage of Elvis elsewhere, you know, girls are chasing. in them, it's like, yeah. Chaos.

Right. Is he able to move in and out of Memphis like it's nothing because everyone knows him or? No, I mean, he's still Elvis Presley. He's still Elvis Presley. He's still Elvis Presley. He still got security all 24-7 with him. Got you. But we played this club. This is Isaac Hayes and to do that. I think Isaac charged him, I want to say $500. Okay. And I think Isaac paid us like about $40 a piece or something like that. Okay.

But after the thing, man, you still got this row-down fence, right? So we walked out of the, on the parking lot, and come into the front entrance of the club because he wanted to be up close and personal with us. And, you know, Evans was tall. Right. You know, very handsome guy. I mean, very polite, I mean, yes-ma'am, no-ma-ma-type guy.

I mean, very contrary to what people say about him. Anyway, he said, man, I really enjoyed myself. I had a good time. And then, you know, he went to his park. He put out a big war of money. And it was like six of us. Now, man, y'all just made 40 bucks for the gig, right? He gave each one of us a $100 bill.

And I said, shit. It's kind of like more than I had. Right. At the time, I gave it, I immediately, when I got home, I gave that $100 to my mom. Don't we always do that? Yeah, we all. All my money gives us to my mom.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford

and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield.

And in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Igo Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.

It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent,

I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. During this time period, is it possible for you to be a local musician

and make a living? Is it possible? meaning, okay, cats I know, especially like if I talk to someone from Detroit or, you know, in the iron, in the rust belt, like, or in Ohio, Indiana, whatever. Most of the stories is, no, we work in the factories from 8 a.m. to 4 or 5 p.m., and then we go home, and then we go to the bar that night, and then we'll play till 1 a.m. and do the same thing over and over again because they need to make more money. was it possible during this time period to be a full-time musician? What is a good musician rate to survive and only be a musician,

not do anything else but to do music? Like, what would you need to... You've answered your question. It really kind of like what liked it. Mostly everybody in the music community did something else. Okay. Besides music.

For me, I basically only did music because I was standing in whole with my parents. Okay. So, you know, as my dad used to always say, you know, starting to get a little beside myself. Are you thinking of your man now? You're the man in the house. Pay these bills.

Yeah, so, you know, I got my first apartment that was like 17. Okay. You were the man in the house then. Yeah. So, like, if I'm hiring you for a gig for Saturday night, which I guess you're expected to play five to six hours. Right.

Fair pay to you is for. 40, 50 bucks? Or is that just the entire bent? No, the average was more like 25. 15 to 25. So for the whole band, they would just pay you 150, 200 bucks for the night. I mean, if you got a gig and you had a band, like we had five or six piece band, if we got $300, that was a big deal. Got you.

Okay. That was huge. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, are you by this point having any dreams of, hey we could take this higher like maybe we can get a record deal maybe we can tour the world maybe we can we weren't even thinking about that we was just trying to see

if we could get up to like $150, $200 a week we would be doing great and back in those days because of the club seeing in those days if you were pretty good not for everybody but

that was kind of like possible to get up to that because you had Memphis had a lot of clubs. I mean, we had the Famingo Room, which was downtown. You had club handy. Gotcha. You had the hippodrome, which, you know, that's where, you know, we played there. You had another club called the Tiki Club. You had the Manhattan.

I mean, you know, there were clubs. It was like a situation, any club you go in, you're going to hear some good shit. You're going to hear some good stuff. Were there rival bands? Like, who was your rival band at that moment? We didn't have a rival band at first, but we were kind of like, for lack of a better word, we were kind of like, we ended up becoming

the second string band at Stax. Now, mind you, this was after the plane crash. Right. But we didn't have a rival band, and we were fortunate enough for Book of the United States. T and the MGs, those guys, Mounted Steve Kropper, by the way, to kind of like take us under their wing.

Take us under their wing. Steve never opened up even after you became established, like, oh, no, Steve was. He won't even admit that. No, Steve, Steve was, I mean, you know. Really? I mean, I hope you don't come out of the grave and get me, but, but, man, you know, you know. You couldn't get his respect?

No, he couldn't get his respect. Oh, man. But I will tell you this. when Jim Stewart, because, you know, back in those days, every Monday they have an A&R meeting. And Jim Stewart, I mean, Steve Kropper would be there, L. Jackson, Booker T, if he was not, if he was in town not in college, Isaac Hayes, David Porter,

all those people were there. And they would give it a schedule for that week. And this particular Monday, after we recorded Soul Finger, the weekend, Jim said, before we get into this meeting, I got something I want to play for you. Steve Kropper was there. When he played it, Steve Kropper's face turned red because they said, damn, these were these little guys I was working with. Y'all were a threat?

Yeah. Then that means you're good if you're a threat to him. Yeah. Okay. As far as labels are concerned, you know, I know of the legend of Sun Records. I know of Stacks. Were there any other labels in the area Or surrounding areas

I don't know how far Nashville is Or Knoxville or whatever In Memphis there was a label Called Gold Wax Got you James Carr, you ever heard of him before I know James Carr, yes At the dark end of the street

Yeah, I know James Carr You know Chip Smallman was in Memphis Okay He didn't have a label but he was You know he had a rhythm section Got you Then you had then later on, high records came into play.

Okay. You know, with Willie Mitchell and all those guys. So Memphis was like fledging. You know, you had stacks. I mean, I can remember, I remember Al Bell and Willie Mitchell standing on the parking lot. And Willie Mitchell would say something, man, you know, have you heard that?

I mean, I just cut this new Al Green record. You know, I want to play it for you to see what you think of. about it. Then Al Bell might say, you know, yeah, I'm gonna play you this new Isaac C's record. See what you think about it. Yeah. Are they recording on the same mixing board or the same equipment because the sound of Willie Mitchell and the sound of stacks? I don't know how to, how to accurately describe the sonic texture of it. Like when I compare Motown to Memphis, I'll say that Motown takes advantage of compression and they take advantage of

reverb so it sounds bigger like they're in a hall or whatever. When you hear them claps it sounds like it's in a big ass church. Whereas all the Memphis songs sound very dry. Like I'd never, you know, in black music, snare drums are usually tuned very tight but everything's like low,

like super low and more bottom heavy. Was that by designed like, okay, this is the Memphis sound, where you guys trying to be anti-Modown. Were you even aware that there was... You want the real answer? Yeah, I do want the real answer. Like, do you know that you're actively part of a movement without knowing it? Probably so.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We didn't know no about it. Okay. No, that's a genuine answer. Yeah, we didn't know about it. I mean, we just...

I mean, because most of the time, I mean, Matt, you. I mean, I mean, whether you at high or stacks or whatever, they didn't really, I mean, stacks really more than high, we didn't really have that much to work with. So, you know, just push a few buttons up and stuff like that, and then, you know,

it's all in popping, you know? That's the way it was. I remember an incident, I played on a song called Cheaper to Keeper, Johnny Taylor, yes. Don Davis came. You know, Don Davis used to come down to Memphis and record a lot. Yes. And it cut Cheaper the Keeper.

Johnny Taylor was drunk, of course. You know, he had a ball of wild turkey in his hand. And Don Davis had to go over there and grab him in the call and said, I want you to sing this goddamn song. I'm going to kick you on my fucking ass. But anyway. So we went up in the control room to listen to their playback of Cheapy the Keeper. And they kept playing it back.

No bass on the song, right? Oh, I thought they said, I mean, they already. You knew what had happened, but they didn't tell me. So they're going to do this thing with me, James, did you play on this track? Now, mind you, the bass is bleeding because I'm standing close to the drum track. So the bass is bleeding on the drum track. So you do hear a little, you hear a smidget of bass. Okay.

Bleeding off the drum track. The engineer pushed the bass module. No bass. Because when he recorded, he had the bass. in preview or solo, but it wasn't going on tape. Ah, okay. And I'm getting delirious that this, man,

I was, man, I was playing, man. It's called gaslighting you. Yes, yeah. I was, man, I was playing, but they already knew what was happening. By this time, the producer listened to the song several times said it was a rap. Go out and put the bass on the song up.

Okay. Because I was about to say my memory of it is you're the first thing I hear because it's a jazzy, do, do, do, do, do. Do you do, okay, so you overdubbed it. Yeah, I mean, they just stayed up in the control. Everybody else stayed up in the control room.

What happened was the engineer was one of these little, one of these little engineers that, you know, just starting out. And he got excited. He got excited because Johnny Taylor was in the building and all of that stuff like that. And he just forgot to put the base in record. So you overdub it. Because in my mind, I'm like, I know there's base on that. Okay.

Yeah. I see. the entire barcades of the rhythm section for Cheaper the Keeper? No, just me. Or just you. Okay. Yeah, I ended up playing on a lot of sessions. Duck was supposed to be playing. Okay. But Duck

liked to play golf, okay? Okay. So, my very first session at Stax was on the Soul Children. Now, man, I had another encounter with Steve Kropper because Steve Kropper was the session leader.

So we're ready to start this session, right? Right. Steve Kropper said, we ready to start this session. Who's going to play bass? Where's Duck? Duck is not here.

So Duck is not there. So I guess we got to use Nuck. Duck was Duck. I am Nuck. And we both don't give a fuck. So my first session was Isaac Hays and David Porter recording by the soldier

called the sweet of he is. Okay. The longer the pain. So I said, you know what? If I fuck this song up here, I need to quit because all the song was, do-dun, do-d-d-d-d-d-m. I mean, the basis of the song,

that was the whole song, basically, had a couple of changes in it. But if I mess this up, I mean, Duck is probably never going to let me, you know, sit in again. But fortunately, I didn't mess it up. Now, this is after the plane crash. So they started bringing out a whole,

rhythm section there. Because a lot of the producers want to use our rhythm section because when you're a young musician, you don't really think about what you're doing, you just do some shit. But as you get older, you start second guessing yourself. You say, I wonder what this works.

But when you're young, you just do it. You don't even think about it. So the producers like the fact that a lot of times we just always do some spontaneous type shit, and they like that. Gotcha. So we started,

more and more, we started, instead of them using, you know, Bookerty and the MGs, and the MGs, at the Redd's recession, usually,

when Book was in college, Isaac Hayes would play the keyboards. Gotcha. And then sometimes it would be both of them. So when you're called in procession, are you getting a tape

of the song beforehand, a week beforehand? Oh, no. Are they sending you a charge? No. Oh, There's being there. None of that, dude.

We don't do it like that. Okay, name a non-barcais, non-Otis Redding hit that you were on. Just something from Hot Butter Soil or whatever. Albert King. Which song? Not born on the bad side, but like I'll play the blues for you. Okay.

All of that. That's all of that, the whole album? Yeah. Your level of getting sampled. Yeah. I got questions for Jazzy after that's out to you. Yeah. Okay, so you're getting called for a session.

Well, see, with Albert King, it's also the blues. So you know it's going to be a one, four, five. Yeah, but he did some stuff with some changes in it, too. Well, you know, not that many changes. He's one, four, five, you know, just like you said, one, four, five. We call it Sears and Roebuck. Why do you call it Sears and Roebuck?

Because it's one, four, five. So Sears and Roboog's just another name for it, you know what I mean? So that's the basic ground level of not. that you should have when you are playing a session is... Sears and Robo. You should know that. But then, you know, fast forwarding, what I did a couple of Nashville sessions.

And Nashville is a numbers city. They do the numbers. Okay. And the first time I did a session up there, they put this chart in from me with the numbers. And then maybe almost laughed me out of the studio because it's, man, I said, man, I don't know how to do this shit like that. I said, man, would y'all just play the demo and let me learn the song?

They said, no, we don't do it like that, home boy. So for people listening, when you do numbers, you saw it. Okay, play one, four or five, so you're supposed to know the corresponding mood. I wasn't, I wasn't with it. So you had a trial by fire life as far as learning. Yeah, okay. Going back to what you asked, we were just sat around. Sometimes the song wasn't even created all the way, you know what I mean?

They had the idea for the song. and they said, man, just come up with some stuff. Think of something. Okay. Think of something, yeah. I like that. Gotcha, got you. But this, lovely.

I mean, we sit around in a circle, and the writer might be in there, and they might have the demo, and we come up with something like that. There was a lot of it was just, I mean, off the cuff. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sportsmen. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations. stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his... Slare's target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I did. think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. So I'll say that the one when people do Stax versus Motown comparisons is Stax is also famous for instrumentals. Now, I'm talking about pre-Larry Barcais, but at no point in the foundational years were you guys ever thinking about adding a lead vocalist to the group so that you can expand your repertoire and do other things? Well, we had some lead vocals, but the way we used to do that, we used to bring them on and let them do two or three songs.

Sit-ins. Okay. Gotcha. And then we do our set. Gotcha. But we had a unique way of doing instrumental, so even though a single was not there, it felt like a single was there because we played the melody so beautifully. Got you.

Have you ever listened to With a Child's Heart? Yeah. I know. I know what. So we got away with it. But after a while, you know, as time went on, you know, I must tell you, it did start getting a little redundant, you know what I mean? But with instrumentals, though, how were the soloing chops?

Because, I mean, besides playing, like, the main melody and the course and all that, I'm certain at some point, like, is being a virtuoso soloist also a requirement or was just keeping a tight rhythm section? Basically, he was a tight rhythm section because really in the original barcase, the only, really, there was only one person, well, no, there was two people that could really do, you know, decent solos, and there was a guitar player

and Ben Carly, the trumpet player. Everybody else was just like, you know, hey, we're going to stay close to the script, you know what I mean? Just, you're accompli, but... So right now on social media, the big thing is that both Tupac and Otis Redding passed away at the same age. And for a lot of us, me included, when you first hear Otis Redding sing,

I naturally thought, oh, yeah, he's like 42, maybe, maybe 53. And I know, generationally speaking, we get younger by the generation. I just turned 55. I still feel like I'm in my 30s. You look young as hell. I don't even, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'm 76.

Dude, I'm... Your birthday was Tuesday? Happy belated. My birthday was Monday. There you go. Capricorn still querying power. Yeah. Tell me how Otis Redding enters the picture.

And was he always an old soul like that? Always an old soul. Like even to you guys, was he in the old soul? Yeah, it's like a big brother to us. Like a big brother, but, you know, the age difference. It wasn't drastic. It was like, when, you know, When I was 17, he was 25.

He's like that, you know what I mean? Were all 25-year-olders like that? No. Okay. No, he was, man, oldest, he was a different type of cat. Okay. This guy, he was the first guy that told us about publishing. I mean, okay, first of all, when I signed my first record contract,

I didn't even read the contract. I just signed. Oh, no. Okay. But you had to understand. I signed my first contract. I was 16 years old. I was so happy to, you know,

give a deal. I just signed the contract. You know, you're supposed to get, you know, we really wasn't supposed to sign the contract because they signed it. You were also underage. Yeah.

So was that contract legal, technically speaking? Contract was full of shit. Okay. It was bad. Got you. But, you know, we signed it anyway because we wanted to.

Got a record? Yeah, I got a record. Yeah. Did you guys have a record contract with, Stacks pre or post Otis Redding? Before O'Don's ready.

Before, okay. In fact, that's how Otis heard of us. Got you. He was in town. Back then, they used to do packet shows where you'd be eight or nine people on the show. And most of the time, you would only do whatever your hit was and maybe one other song.

Got you. So the whole show used it didn't last with like an hour and 15 minutes and be nine people on the show. A bunch of hits and covers. Yeah, hits, yeah. But if you did three songs on the show, you was a star. Gotcha.

And then, you know, Otis Redden, his set was like 30 minutes. So, you know, he was superstar. Right. So Otis was in town. I think the show was Otis Redding, the Manhattan's, Arthur Connolly,

Betty Swan. I can't remember who else was. Maybe Carla Thomas May I'll have been on the show. Okay. But as you well know, in speaking to you earlier, It seemed like, you know, you know one of those guys that like to go out after the show. Yeah.

You don't do you. No. Well, we did. Got you. You know, the show, then the after party, then the after party, after the after party. What had happened? All night, all night long. But anyway, we were playing at this club called the Hippadron.

Got you. 500 Bill Street. That's the address. I'm very familiar. Yeah. I'm familiar with it. Anyway, we were playing at this club illegally, of course. Okay.

So Otis wanted to go out after he do a show at the Coliseum, so he comes down to the hipodrome. He sees this band, and this particular night, he was in rare form. And so he asked Al Bell and Al Jackson, which Al Bell and Al Jackson were kind of like part owners of the club. Who is this band?

And they told him, he said, do you think they know any of my songs? And he said, ask them. So he called out a couple of songs I think one of us Can't Turn You Loose And we really didn't know it But we kind of like knew of it But we were one of those groups

We could fake it till we make it So he came up on stage We did the song with him And he said, man, I got to have these guys For my band Now mind you Otis had, he had a 12 And maybe a 14 piece band

You know horns, all of that And so what really tripped him out was he kept looking up on the stage and he kept looking around trying to see what the rest of the people was. It was just six people on stage. Gotcha. But the sound was big. So he said, I got to have these dudes from my band.

So he stayed in town, actually today, because he wanted to talk to our parents. Gotcha. He wanted us to go on the road with him, right? Mm-hmm. We were getting all hyped up and excited. And our parents said, hell no. to the no, no, no. Yeah, to the no.

Really? They said, I mean, Camany, we still in high school. All of the parents were in, they were all in agreement? In agreement. They said, look, everybody was in the 12th grade except me.

I was in the 11th because I'm, you know, like I was kind of like the youngest. Gotcha. So he said, I don't know, but I got to have these guys by band. So graduation was like at the end of May 1st of June. So when they graduated, you know, I still had another year.

The day we graduated, you know, most people have graduation parties. The same day we graduated, we left and went on the road. We flew from Memphis to New York to play with Otis Redding. Where in New York? The Apollo Theater. Oh, my God. Our first gig. What did you know about the Apollo before you got there?

Nothing. You didn't hear the legend of the Apollo theater. Oh, that's good. Amira. That's actually good. That's good for you. But look, here's what you have to understand. You're talking about some country bunkings up to this point in our lives.

Memphis was all you knew. We had gone no more than a 30 or 40-mile radius all the way around from Memphis, Tennessee. Gotcha. You know, maybe Blaville, Arkansas, West Memphis, cross the bridge. We hadn't gone anywhere. I was taught to be afraid of the Apollo. You know, my dad would always tell me stories. My dad was like an oldies du-op singer back in the 50s.

We were fearless. We didn't know what got me, though, because, you know, I was kind of like the hype man and something like that. Yeah. So before we played with Otis, which, mind you, we never had a rehearsal with Otis Redding. Can you just call out the songs?

No, because we kept asking, man, when are we going to rehearse? Oh, man, y'all know my shit, man. We didn't get to rehearse. So the only rehearsal we had with Otis down in the basement at the Apollo Theater. Okay. We had a talk rehearsal. No instruments.

We just talked it through. He said, man, y'all got it. Okay. So when you're doing these gigs, the way of my life is now, it's definitely like three-hour sound checks. You get there at 12, 1, 2, 3. Oh, no.

Was sound check a thing? Were monitors a thing? Was the sound guy a thing? If you had two mics on stage, you were doing great. So is the sound just naturally coming from your amp and the drums? Right. There's no mics. Two mics.

There's no monitors, no... None of that. If you was on stage and you had two... Oh, if you had three mics on stage, you were really... You was some hot shit. Someone told me Ray Charles having five microphones for his whole stage show was like a major thing. Like, he insisted on the Raylets. him, his piano, and then the rhythm section.

And, okay, so if I'm in the Apollo theater and the nosebleed, third row, the top row up, you still gonna hear it, everything. I gotta imagine that. Because, you know, I'm used to a life where there's, I mean, you've seen modern concerts now with speakers and speakers and speakers. Yeah, well, you know, these guys, man,

I can't hear my monitor. Is this why I see a lot of 60s cats hold their ear when they sing. Yeah. Ronald Isley, every clip I've ever seen on the Isley brothers like pre-1975,

he's always holding. Right. So he can hear him. That's his monitor. This is your monitor. And then I came up with an error that you're supposed to know the show.

So if you don't have any monitors, you're supposed to know what you're supposed to be doing, when and where you're supposed to be doing it at. So these younger guys, they overplay monitors, man, you know,

I mean, you know, if you know what you're doing, you know, you don't really need all of that. Man, I can't hear the monitors. Then, you know, you came up with now you got end ears and all of that. Yeah. Man, I think so I'm spoiled.

Sorry. I don't even use none of that. I don't use no end ears. If I have monitors, it's fine. If I don't, it's still fine. Got you. You know. I mean, but now, you know, you got side fields.

You got all this. You go, you know. What was that first, what is Reading show like? And again, no one's telling you guys. Y'all better be good because the New York crowds is tough. Well, first of all, our first thing with Otis Redding, well, we played the Apollo for 10 days, four shows. Well, we played on the average at least three shows a day.

I think over that 10-day period, we played probably about maybe, I stand to be corrected, we played about 30 shows over that 10 days. 30 shows. Yeah, because, okay, like on Wednesday. Yeah, give me that it, 10. Yeah, Wednesday with your matinee. First of all, they didn't turn the house.

So if you came to a show at 1 o'clock, and the last show maybe started 9.45 or something like that. You could stay there all day? Oh, yeah. Some parents made the Apollo their daycare center because they come, drop the kids off at the Apollo. Because, you know, after the show, they're going to show a movie, then they're going to show a show.

Movie show. Movie show. Really? Yeah. Same thing at the Uptown, in your hometown. Okay. So I'm paying, what, five bucks to get in? Yeah, maybe three to five bucks.

Maybe three bucks, and you can stay there all day. And I can stay there all day. All day. Watch a movie. They'd show a film and then come out. Your parents might give you five bucks so you can get you a hot dog or some popcorn or something. You know, you got, you know, it's a daycare.

I would do anything to witness that. Yeah. So imagine now, we some country bunkers that came all the way up from Memphis, Tennessee, to New York City. we only have one uniform. We played Apollo for 10 days. You're answering the question I always wanted to know.

Now, again, James Brown's whole thing is you get fined if there's a spot or wrinkle, your shoes better be shiny and all that stuff. Right. I've heard these records. I've seen these shows. I've seen like footage. You're sweating. So how are you caring for? I'm assuming that you're wearing white shirts.

The uniforms, it was, I don't know, do you know anything? Have you ever heard of a slack suit before? What's a slacksuit? A shirt in the past match. Okay. Yeah. Just like an outfit, okay. So we had some outfits like that.

So what we did between shows, we would take the outfits off and hang them up, you know, in the apartment dress rooms. We hang them up on the pipes, let them dry out. Because of the sweat. Yeah, the sweat. That iron sweat smell. Yeah. We couldn't do no better.

I always wanted to know that. Okay. So what happened? Apollo, you know, you got hecklers and all that stuff like that. So I'm in the hype, man. So I go out and ask the or is like, how y'all doing? Then nobody say shit. No, they didn't say nothing.

Really? They said looking at me. I said, how y'all doing? What's going on? Nobody said nothing. So a guy that's been there all day says, man, we're going to be doing great when y'all changed clothes. Because they saw us at 1 o'clock we had the same outfit on. At 4 o'clock, we still had the same outfit on.

At 7 o'clock, we still had the same outfit on. But we didn't have nothing to change in, too. We just had that one outfit. Oh, no. Okay. When did you finally get a second outfit? Were you lease? Not while we were at Apollo.

Otis, I guess oldest probably felt sorry for us. because after we played the Apollo, we took a little break, and then we went on tour with Otis. We did, like, a packet show where we went all over the, you know, all over the country. You know, a bus tour.

He's on a... Not a customized bus. I got you. A greyhound. Everybody on the bus. Got you. All the artists on the bus. Otis wasn't on the bus,

but all the rest of the artists was on the bus. What was it like for you to see America at that time period? And the regionalism of it all. I can remember fast forward and we were playing doing something with Isaac Hayes in Birmingham, Alabama.

The only hotel that you could stay at in Birmingham was a hotel called A.G. Gaston Hotel. Okay. It was black-owned. It was like a motel.

So, you know, everybody. It was like in Memphis, like the Lorraine, that was one of the few hotels that blacks could stay at. Gotcha. I mean, it couldn't stay at the Peabody or nowhere like that.

You know, so just traveling around, I mean, you know, just, we just saw how racist things were, especially in the South. It wasn't as bad as we came up north as you came like D.C., Philly, all up down the East Coast. You know, it wasn't as bad. But down South, it was horrible. As far as Otis is concerned, are you his stage band only or were you also going to be his studio band as well? No. We didn't play on anything in the studio with Otis. We probably would have later on because Otis, we played a, after we did this tour with Otis, he took another stand in San Francisco at a club called the Basin Street West.

Gotcha. On Broadway in downtown San Francisco. And it was a 10-day stint. And we were standing down in downtown San Francisco. We were standing in downtown San Francisco, and he stayed out in Marine County. Somebody had rented him a houseboat. So he stayed on a houseboat.

So Otis, I don't know, even though I was younger, you know, we connected. So he calls me at the hotel and say, man, I want you to get out here. Now, man, you're in downtown San Francisco. He wanted me to come to Sausalito, which is, you know, you have to go car, the Golden Gate Bridge.

Right. This was about 45 minute drive. Familiar with it. In those days, a $55 car ride. Gotcha. Even back then. So, I said, man, I ain't got no money to come out there. He said, look, get in a cab,

and when the cab get here, I come out and pay for it. So I go out to the houseboat. He's sitting in the houseboat with his guitar. He got a capeau on it. He always played it with the cape on it. So, you know, he's strumming the guitar. Right. And he's looking over into San Francisco.

He's working on sitting on the Dr. LeVay. And he said, what's your thing? I said, man, I don't know shit. I don't know. He said, man, come on, man. Just tell me even, I said, I don't know what it is. But that's what ended up being sitting on the dock of LeVay. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The Big Money Podcasts. Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, who, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Can you talk about one of the most pivotal shows, one of the most important shows for him,

probably historically speaking, one of the most pivotal shows in postmodern rock history, is doing the Monterey Pop Festival show. I believe this is the same show in which The Who and Hendrix is where Hendricks sets his guitar, and all that. But I know that he made such an impression on that audience. And am I to assume that was like really the first time in which hippies or non-black audiences got their taste of like Otis Redding Live? It was a little before then.

They had, before they did to moderate the, They had gone to Europe. Got you. You guys traveled with him to Europe? No. This was the M.G.' Okay, got you. Monterey, we didn't do any of that with them.

They still was using the M.Gs. Got you. But, you know, I was one of those guys that was always around. So I ended up being kind of like a golfer. Okay. Go get this, go get that. So I traveled around. So I got chance.

I didn't go to Monterey, but he did something at the whiskey or go-go down in L.A. So I went there with him. I believe he recorded that show live. Yeah, he recorded that show live, live album and all that. You know, he kind of like took me under his wing. I mean, because, you know, he would always confide at me. And I didn't, I'm saying, who am I to confide in?

I mean, you know, he just wanted to talk to somebody. I mean, very, just brilliant beyond his years. His thing was, why in the hell would you create a song and give it the ownership of that song to a record company? me, they didn't have shit to do with the song. What would you give the song to them? We didn't know no better. The first song that we recorded, which was Soul Finger,

we didn't have none of the, we didn't own none of the publisher. So we just got writers on that song. Unbeknownst to us, that song was recorded in 1967. That song is 58 years old. Our catalog is 350 songs. there's been no song in our catalog to beat Soul Finger

out of the 350. I'm talking about hitting the run, hitting all of that. Soul Finger is the crown jewel, it's the money making more money than any song. At one song, it's just publishing writers, everything. It makes on an average of about, even now, about 60 grand a year. So if we hit on the publishing,

we would be getting, you know, we'd be splitting up 60 grand, but since we didn't, we'd get 30 grand and splitting 30 grand five ways. Got you. Got you. You know, we didn't know. Even to this day when December 10th comes up, do you feel the events of that day at all? No question.

I don't know if you saw what I did this December 10th. No, I didn't. I've sent it to you. Okay. And, I mean, I always pay homage to those guys. because we had so much fun and, you know, learned a lot, the whole land. He walked me through, like, December 9th,

like the day before, just whatever that time period was like. December the night, we had a show in Nashville, Tennessee at Vanderbilt University. No, this was December the 8th. Vanderbilt was like the Harvard of the South. We had a show, Barcais and Otis Redding at Vanderbilt University. So we were supposed to...

We played Nashville then. we're supposed to play Cleveland, Ohio, December of the night. So rather than spend the night in Nashville, because he had his own plane, hey man, the OJs and the temptations are in Cleveland. When we get through with our show, let's take the plane and fly to Cleveland and catch their last show because they was doing two shows,

our early show and the late show. So we left and went to the place, which we're going to be planning on December the night. The temptation of the OJs were there on December of the... eighth, OJs were the opening act. I mean, the temptations were on fire at that point. And the OJs, this was back when they had five members, the OJs turned it out.

They had one song. They had a song called, I'll be sweeter tomorrow than I was yesterday. Okay. When they got through doing that song, I mean, people just stood up, I mean, kind of like about a 10-minute standing ovation.

The Thames didn't want to come out. Now, the Tempts, mind you, they had all these hits. And, you know, the Tamps, they were there, they were there, tall, well-dressed. They were the shit. Eddie Livert don't play fair. Yeah.

I've seen him many times in concert. He does not play fair. They came out there and they ripped it. Right. So, you know, being around a lot of that kind of stuff like that, you know, so we came to an era where we're going to, I don't know if you know anything about this. You ever heard of people saying,

we're going to cut your head. Yeah. Are you know about here cutting? I mean, I'm in a band. Yeah, the bad. I'm in a band. So we had, I know when it's time to.

We did some vows with cameo. That was one of our main ball groups. But anyway. How many get to that? They kicked the ass. And you said the OJs kicked the Tim's ass the same one. Kick their ass. Okay.

Smoked them. And they only had one hit. Tim's had multiple hits. That's all it takes. This is when David Ruffin was in the group. Got you. David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams. Yeah.

Otis Williams. And who am I missing? Melvin. Melvin, Franklin. Yes. Oh, I cannot forget. Yeah. You were saying that Otis and the barquees went to Ohio to go see the Timps and the OJs.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. But how does that lead to December 10th of 67 when the crash happens? Well, it's okay. They played on December 8th. We played on the 9th, the barcaze and Otis. We played at the same club. And that was the last.

The last time. Man, it was one hell of a show because in the daytime, we did a TV show called Upbeat. Okay. You probably may have seen that clip. Yeah, it's on. I've seen it.

Yeah. I mean, that was live. I mean, it wasn't about two mics at that thing. Got you. We recorded that. Got you. That was the last time we did it. And normally, the morning of the 10th,

normally I would be on the private plane with them. But the plane, the plane could only carry a certain amount of people and two people always had to fly commercial this particular day I happen to just be one of the people to fly commercial how is that decision made man because what I said I said you know we always would have you know we didn't have you know the promoter then you know rich you know car service and no limos and like they we just got two vans two station whack whatever they had at the rental car place and so somebody had to turn rental vehicles in.

So me and the other guy, we opted to turn the rental vehicles in. Is that Ben Collie? A guy by the name of Carl Sims. Okay. He was kind of like the singer. He was like the guy we let him come on to do one number before we come on. Got you.

He come on to do one number. Did we come on and do maybe three numbers? Then we bring Otis on. Got you. Okay. So we turned the rental vehicles in and we dropped them off at the, at the hangar, what a private plane was, then we turned the rental vehicle. and then we can't take a commercial flight to the next show.

Where was the next show supposed to be? In Madison, Wisconsin. Oh. At the University of Wisconsin. Clyde Stubblefield territory. Madison, Wisconsin, okay. So the pilot said, hey, man, rather than y'all flying all the way to Madison,

why don't y'all fly from Cleveland to Milwaukee? I dropped them off in Madison and then come back across Lake Michigan. Michigan to pick y'all up and then bring y'all back to Madison. So we flew to Milwaukee, so we sat and waiting on them to come. And so it started getting late. It started getting around four or five o'clock. No plane.

And then, you know, back in those days, you know, you didn't have technology like, you have, you know, no cell phones or pay phone. You had to go, then you call home, you know, you call and collect or something like that. So we started just calling. And then we called around, where's the plane? Nobody could tell us any information. And so finally, we were already at the airport in Milwaukee, so we called. Can I ask, is the private air hanger aware that they're supposed to receive a plane to come in?

Like, are they? In Madison? Yes. Yeah. Okay. And so even for all the hours that are going by, they're unaware. They're unaware. I mean, you know, the communications.

system was not... What it is now. You know, everything is right now. Got you. Yeah. In real time, right there. But it wasn't like that then. So hours went to...

So we kept calling, kept calling. And they said, well, we lost the plane on the radar. Whereas they still didn't know anything. So maybe an hour or so late, they said, well, we lost the plane on the radar. We think the plane went down. And that's all they could tell us. They couldn't tell us nothing else. Was any survivors...

That's a hell of a way to tell you. Like, just all casual? Just like that. So, we in Milwaukee, so later on about another hour passed by, and so we called and they said, well, the authorities coming from Madison back to Milwaukee to pick y'all up. So they came to Milwaukee,

picked us up and drove us back to Madison. By then, they had known. What are you thinking in that drive? I'm numb. I'm not thinking. I don't know what to think. I'm 17 years old, so I don't know what to think. Oh, God.

Okay. So we get to Madison. They put us up in the hotel. They said, well, the plane did go down. There were no survivors. The only survivor was a guy. They didn't even know it was Ben Collie. Bing Collie, yeah.

But he was in the hospital. So I said, well, can you take me to the hospital? So I went to the hospital to see him and he was just laying up in the bed he was like in shock if you ever seen a person in shock I mean he was just there with his eyes open laying back in the bed

and said Ben put my hand in front of he couldn't say anything he couldn't move, couldn't say anything so he took us back to the hotel and they said well since you and the other gentleman y'all are the only two people here

y'all will have to, as we find people, identify them? You all will have to identify the bodies. I always wanted to ask you how you felt about Jet Magazine's treatment of this moment. Because that's how I learned this story and who you were via my aunt had that Jet Magazine. The Jet Magazine was notorious. I mean, you know. They did them until that much I do know.

All that stuff, yeah. So by this time, later on, This was like on a Sunday. Of course, they had notified Zellma, Otis's wife, and she had flown to Madison. They put us all in the same hotel. So when Zellma got to the hotel,

I went down to her room, and we consoled each other a little bit. I mean, and it's weird because it wasn't much crying. I mean, at that point, we all still was in shock. We weren't crying or anything like that. But I remember Zelma telling me,

She said, James, whenever they find my husband, will you be willing to identify him? And I'm 17 years old, right? So I had identified the rest of the people too. So I said, that's course. It was like the second or third day before they found Otis. And when they found him, it had him on a dolly. He still was strapped into his step because he was in the co-pilot seat, sitting in the copilot seat. because this aircraft didn't require you to have a pilot

and a co-pallot, just a pallet. So we would all take turns and sit in the co-pilot seat when we'd fly because, you know, you're thinking you're the co-pilot, right. You know, so all this was sitting in the co-pillard seat. And so when they found him, he was still in the co-pillard seat. For our people listening right now,

as I mentioned before, or kind of what brought, you know, if you go to any beauty shop or a barbershop or whatever, you know, an older parent's house, like there's jet and ebony or like staples in any household, any barbershop, any black gathering, non-church. Of course, they really made their mark because Emmett Till's mother gave them permission to show what his face looked like after they murdered him. And that, you know, of course, started the civil rights period. My aunt who loved Otis Redding kept the Jet Magazine in.

And of course, I guess photographers were on the scene. And they showed his body. And I guess because it was December and the water was freezing. He was froze. Yeah, he was frozen. But it was like the look on his face was almost like it was frozen in time. of that horned me like no other photo ever. And I always wanted to know, like,

not did you guys think that was in poor taste or whatever, like, or even considering what his widow would think or that sort of thing. But like, I remember that photo first and then going through my father's records to learn about Otis Redding and then, you know, again, I give up in 3,000 album household. So when I guess my father purchased too hot to stop,

then my mom explained to me that this is the new version of the band from Aunt Barbers. Like she had to explain to me sort of backwards, the story of the barquees and all those things. Are you all about that? Yeah, man. Wow. I'm a, I'm you. I was just five at the time.

Yes, at five, six, seven, I probably had the knowledge of a 20-year-old. Like, that's just who my family was. Okay, so, you know, of course, today, trauma experiences are nothing new for black creatives, especially. Like, music is usually our therapy, our cathartic release. Did you allow yourself to mentally deal with that sort of trauma or that loss? Like, is it over? Is it, what do you do? No, everything happens so fast.

That thing didn't really hit me the way. It hit Ben called it. It hit me one way. It hit him a whole other way. How did it hit you? I mean, I was just numb the whole time about it. And what happened is, I mean, before all of the films, Jim Stewart and Al Bell called me to Stax and said,

James, I mean, I know this is a difficult time. But they said these words, they said, we want to know if you want to continue. I didn't even think about it. I said, yes. Ben Carly, he didn't want to do anything. He said, James, you got it. I didn't.

Can you tell me what his version of being in that plane and how he escaped? Ben told me that before the plane took off from Cleveland, Ohio, it didn't feel right because he said, and said, I don't know this to be true or not. But he said the battery was low, the battery that controlled the plane was loading, and they had to get a boost off or something like that.

I can't imagine a plane getting a boost off. But I guess, you know, he runs about, you know. Oh, kind of like if your car breaks down and you do that. Oh, okay. He said from him, something was not right from the beginning. So when the plane started having, you know, just, you know, he woke up and the plane was having problems, then the next thing he knew, the plane was in a spiral.

by this time people were waking up because everybody was asleep and the plane impacted when it hit the lake the plane hit the lake and then it broke and half so Ben Carley happened to be the only person

on the plane that couldn't swim and he survived I just only imagine just recollecting everything okay everybody was sleep You wake up, you still kind of like groggy, you don't know what's happening,

but whatever's happening is it ain't right. Then the next thing, you know, the plane is hidden, you know, it's happened so fast. And it threw everybody out in the water, the people that, because you know, probably some people didn't have the seatbelt songs. So the weight of the seat, took them to the body. So Ben was able to dismantle his seatbelt

and free himself? He may not even have a seatbelt on it. He was just thrown out into the water. And from what I understand, there was a guy out in the lake. I mean, he wasn't boat. Because, you know, he bounced in Wisconsin. It was cold.

Is this also nighttime or daytime? Afternoon. Okay, okay. So the guy in the boat, I went since, so he got over there with his boat. But Ben was the only person that he saw because according to Ben, he had seen several people come up out of the lake, you know, trying to say, help, you know. And he was already in shock, but he couldn't do anything anyway because he couldn't swim.

All he can remember is somebody pulled him and put them in the boat and covered them up with, because he was shaking and stuff. Gotcha. This was like, it was below freezing that day. Yeah, December. Yeah. When did you even start with the idea of, okay, let's rebuild a new band? Like, how long did you take off before you used like, okay, let's get to it? Okay, this happened in December, 1967, by April of 68, had already reformed a new band.

All right, y'all, that's going to do it for part one of our conversation with James Alexander of the legendary barcades. Please come back next week or check your podcast feed for part two. In that, we're going to get into the evolution of the Bar K sound in the 70s and the 80s and the making of classics like Holy Ghost and Too Hot to Stop. The battle stories from the road and how James helped bridge the gap into modern hip-hop in Memphis. Oh, here's a nugget. Holy Ghost, my all-time favorite Bar-K song, was recorded years before we got to hear it. He also reveals some credits behind the barcase, including some of the 1970s classics as we celebrate Black History Month.

This is music history and yes, black history. And that is American history. Always keep that in mind. We're just getting started. So make sure you subscribe, rate and review the show. And we'll be back with Part 2 of James Alexander on the Questlove show. All right? The Questlove show is hosted by me.

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