The Questlove Show - Kim Gordon

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Questlove sits down with Sonic Youth co-founder and avant-garde icon Kim Gordon for a candid, funny, and surprisingly vulnerable conversation about imposter syndrome, the Downtown/No Wave era, and how a visual artist became a profoundly influential bassist, singer, and producer. Kim talks about embracing spontaneity in the studio, discovering dissonance alongside Public Enemy at Greene Street Studios, accidentally launching her solo career with producer Justin Raisen, and navigating motherhood. She also reflects on recently updating her memoir and her role in the film Chronology of Water. One of music’s enduring arbiters of cool joins The Questlove Show—take heed.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to.

to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Questlove show is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, I cannot lie to you. and say that our guest today has had some sort of hand and luring my very band to a certain label called Geffen DGC. Even long before we met as the co-founder of the legendary band Sonic Youth, our guest, has crafted a movement for more than four decades,

inspiring anyone worth their grain of salt of greatness. Name them. Nirvana is smashing pumpkins, pavement, Dinosaur Jr., Pearl Jam, Hole, Radiohead, Sugar Rios. I mean, the list goes on and on and on on. I mean, this is the definition of when you hear people say, like, your artist's favorite or that meta rabbit hole, our guest embodies that today. She said countless of, I'd be here all day, we even just talk about the collaborations, always pushing the boundaries of creativity and staying fresh, an architect of patron saint, of many movements. pioneer the downtown scene. Are you embarrassed when we come with like

way too many superlatives? Like, teaches long for the daylight, ladies and gentlemen. It brings out the imposter syndrome for sure. I get it. Coolest base player ever. Thank you, Kim Gordon, for coming to the Questlove show.

Appreciate it. How are you? Great to see you. All right. Well, that's what I want to start with because I know that oftentimes there's the battle, the idea of you,

versus what you feel is the authentic you. So to break the ice, I always wanted to ask you this. Can you tell me three things that you think are uncool about you? Well, I guess mostly like I don't think I'm cool. Like I do battle like this kind of feeling of awkwardness to some extent. You know, unless I'm in a flow of working or doing something. You know, like I have a basket of different socks that I wish I could just get rid of and start over.

I don't know. You know what? Actually, it's funny you mentioned that I kind of did that last week. I don't know why I decided to just have a sea change of all my t-shirts, my underwear and my socks, I decided. Getting rid of whatever has collectively, like, just been there for the last decade. and a half and just start over fresh. I don't know if that's my version of just getting a new haircut.

I'm going to change my underwear and just start a new. Actually, you know, it's weird. I probably met you in the most ideal way whatsoever. So when you walk in a room, do you feel sort of self-conscious because you know that there's an expected cool factor that we've tagged on you? Or do you just feel like you just blend in and no one knows that you've walked in? Yeah, I pretty much don't think anyone's going to know who I am. Okay, so am I allowed to say where we first met?

Well, we were at a New Year's Eve party at Natasha. Right, that's right. Natasha's house. It was so spot-on cliche that I was like, yeah, of course, Kim Gordon just walks into a New Year's party inside of Natasha's house and is the coolest person in the room. Literally, like, seven of us, like, just hushed down. And then I almost felt like our pressure was getting to you because I wanted to say something to you.

But then I was like, no, she's probably in her head right now. So I didn't say it. But then eventually I did talk to you. But do you often feel that we're gawking, like, geeking out over you or just? No, I mean, honestly, like, I think that's the last thing, I think. Okay, got you. And I'm kind of a shy person. And so people maybe expect me to be different.

So they think I'm cool because I'm not saying a lot. Can I ask you, what's the best compliment you've ever received, that you actually received it without like the imposter syndrome, like sort of ducking out? Gosh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Someone said from my last record that I was a genre onto myself, which. I guess I relate to that. Okay.

Because I don't really like to think in terms of music genres or anyway. Well, I was going to ask later, when you create, are you sort of of the moment, you don't know what's going to happen the second that you, whatever you deemed your studio home base, do you know what's going to happen or are you a person that has to like pre-plan it way ahead of time and then? No, I'd like spontaneity. improvisation a lot. So, I mean, when I work with

Justin, like, you'll send me some you know, beats and things. And I'll figure out what it is I feel drawn to and then, you know, kind of write some lyrics. But then when I go in and I'll, you know, put guitar down to make it

kind of messier. You know, it's like having a white canvas. Like, you can't, it's hard to paint on a white canvas. You have to. Right, I get it. Anyway, but I'll tend to not really know exactly where things are going to fall, and then sometimes things will just come out of my mouth, you know, and I'll go, what the hell was that?

Can you tell me, what are the things that you did in the first 20 minutes of your day today? Well, I guess I looked at my stupid phone. Okay. I'm staying at a friend's, my galerous, and so I went down and made tea, and I talked. talk to her. She just came back from the Miami Art Fair. Okay. All right, this is rather random, non-sequit, but I'll just ask, what is the bravest thing that you think you've ever done? That's a tough one. I guess a bravest thing maybe was deciding to become pregnant and have a baby. It's sort of like a world of unknown. I want advice on that. I want advice on

that because of all the members of the roots, I'm the one that's childless still. Okay. Because I still think in terms of like, ah, this will slow me down. Ah, this will slow me down. But I'll also say that me coming to grips with that level of vulnerability, you know, I'm a very calculated. What if I fail? I need to perfect this first.

I'm not, you know, we're the manual instructions for this. And I feel like that's one of the things where you just have to fucking. it like just let it happen yeah right now i'm probably as close as i've ever been to jess like what else is left yeah dog you did everything like it's not it's not going to get more perfect than this what was that feeling like of really just giving in because i'm i'm actually asking from an advice standpoint how do you allow yourself the vulnerability to accept that type of love. I don't know. I mean, it's just like, you know, first of all, you only live once that we know of. So, I don't know, I just felt like, oh, there's just like a whole set of experiences. And there's

something about when you have someone to take care of that's really dependent on you, it takes you out of your head, you know, in a nice way. And it's kind of, you know, it's fun. So you highly recommend it? I do. I mean, yes, of course, I highly recommend it. I'm not sure I recommend having more than one. I only had one. But I mean, you know, if you're like travel or, you know, you work a lot.

You know, it's difficult. I think it's harder for women because as equal as your relationship can be, it's still kind of a lot falls to the mama somehow, you know, scheduling. Like you have a certain urgency towards your, when your baby cries because it's hungry. Like you just want that to stop, you know. Can you still be creative and balance? I think that's the thing that I fear the most, like, I'm so detail-oriented that I almost feel as though. I have to, that's a bad metaphor to use.

I always use the term, throw the baby out with the bath water, but meaning just in terms of making sure that I'm 100% present. Yeah. And I just always figure you can't serve two gods in the way that creativity is to me for music and for film and all those things that I spend way too many hours doing that. But this is the closest I've ever been. been to just like yeah i don't know i mean it is a big change but you still manage to do everything pretty much you know you just have to be more efficient like you you have different

priorities i suppose and i don't know my daughter's 31 now like you never really stop worrying about your child i have to say yeah that's difficult you know thank you i appreciate you i appreciate you i appreciate I appreciate that. Yeah. Do you remember the very first creative project that you've ever done in life? When I was in kindergarten, I went to this lab school at UCLA where you sort of learned by doing. And I mean, in kindergarten, right, you don't do that much. But we made clay elephants.

Like I learned the system. Like I was good with my hands, I guess. And then so I guess that was my first creative. Then when I went to first grade, they had me go back and teach the kids. kindergartners, how to do it. So obviously your love for visual arts was early and this sort of informed. Yeah, I basically just sounds cliche, but yeah, I always just wanted to be an artist. Gotcha.

I just fell into playing music, so. All right, well, for me, I, you know, gone to my head, I probably would say I'm a DJ more than anything. and maybe I forged this career in a band so I could make money so I could buy more records to be a DJ. But for you, you still feel as though the, I don't know, like visual arts or tangible arts or that's your true first love, like, as a creator?

Yeah. Okay. I mean, I kind of think of myself, I know it's hard to explain, but as an artist first, like an artist who makes music, or an artist who writes, Yeah, artist first. Yeah. Well, creative, yeah.

I don't think of myself as just, it's not exactly the same as just being a creative. It's just, I think, spatially in a way. What's the transferable creative talent that you have that the world doesn't know about? Like, you play basketball, are you a gamer? Um. What's your cooking skills like? I don't know. I am a good cook.

Okay. I don't know. I just, I think I have a good special sense. That's a talent. In terms of like, funxue and energy in a room. Yeah, I think what I like about playing music in a way is, like I was kind of wanted to be a dancer at what point in my life. And I know it's just, there's a lot of moving around on the stage, you know, and like you have a sense of how you can bring something different.

to what would be an expected rock show or something by how you move and where you move and things like that. All right. So in your position in a band, an iconic band, who's your North Star as a bass player? Who's in your mind that you're vicariously living through? Like I know, I see the flea effect now with kids. Or like all of a sudden you have a bunch of these balxie kind of. I'm like, okay, I know what you grew up on.

But for you, who was your North Star? I actually liked the bass player in DNA. This guy Tim Wright. Okay. He used to play in his socks. And he kind of used the guitar like the way he held. He almost held it sideways. Okay.

And he would turn. Like it's a weapon? Turn a lot. Yeah. Okay. I don't play bass so much anymore. Like, I haven't played bass since the last Sonic Youth gig. Okay.

But... Was that also a part of you? But he was, he definitely inspired me, yeah. Gotcha. And Sid Vicious. Right. Of course. Of course.

What are the first three records that you remember purchasing? Well, there's, it's probably like a Beatles. single of some kind. But I don't remember which one. Like I used to walk up to the record store. I lived in West L.A. and, you know, ask is what's, it's the new single out, you know. It's a new Beatles single out. So Beatles 45 would be one of them? Yeah. I had a Roy Orbison single, I think. Pretty women. I had a Rolling Stones record. Okay. Like the first one maybe. Well, let me ask, what three records that you own Do you think that we would be shocked that you listen to? Tusk? I remember the day that Tusk came out, and it was like a marching band song, right? Like, they used marching band drums in the title track, and it was a double album. I remember them not liking.

Is it a triple? It was a double album, but I remember them. It came out when I was nine, so I don't have like real-time memories up, but I remember them. handing the shit out that record. Yeah, people hated that record. So do you gravitate towards what we're not supposed to like? Well, that's funny.

I mean, I didn't actually get into that record to like 2009. But did you get into it because everyone else didn't like it? Well, I don't know. Like, it's funny, my friend Bill Nace, who I have this guitar improv duo with, I don't know whether he does. just found it

like in our shelf and he started playing it. We both just became obsessed with it and listened to it endlessly. And I have to say it's like the worst cover art ever. Right. Which I think was super expensive and

yeah, way over budget the whole thing. But I don't know. Is something about that record? It reminds me I need to go home and play it. I've been heard it in a while. No, for me, I think that I'm curious about departure records. When I first started teaching at NYU,

I'm always interested in the psychological angle. Like, okay, Sly Stone has his first... That's a great documentary, by the way. Oh, thank you. Both of your documentaries. I appreciate it. Yeah, like Sly had such pop success with Stan that why does he do this dark-ass record?

Or why would Prince follow up Purple Rain with Around the World on the Day? what did Fleetwood Mac feel after the rise of rumors? Like, you know, to not ruin it, but not say you're scared. So, you know, this departure. I mean, it backfire for the Beatles. Like, Sergeant Peppers was, hey, let's do show tunes and Timpan Alley. It backfired.

Yeah. So I'm always curious that when a band gets to that place where they're so big, do they follow up? I know this is a weird take. I admire Michael Jackson for trying to even think that he could top thriller. Like, oh, 40 million? I'm going to try 100 million. Which, yes, the quantity of it all is what I also feel took Michael Jackson away, literally and air quotes.

But I actually admire the balls for him to actually say, no, I'm not going to do the cover record or let me do my jazz record or my Jody Mitchell phase, like whatever. that is. That'd be interesting. Right. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me,

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Igo, go on my next. guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

What is your all-time favorite food? I don't know. Like, I like so much. I like maybe soba's. Okay. You know, I love French food, too. you know, actually a soup de Poisson last night. It was delicious.

Okay. But, I don't know, something about soba to me that's so kind of pure. Okay. And delicious. Gotcha. What's the last thing that you made for yourself? It was probably roast chicken. Okay.

Yeah. Still keep on the French. Nothing fancy. Got you. What's your all-time favorite cereal? Paleo-Grinola. Airwant. Yeah, even the way you sold it to me was like,

oh, cool boy, really? I mean, I don't really eat cereal so much. You like educated cereal. I get it. But I, yeah, I don't know, I just, I basically don't feel like I've eaten anything if I have a cereal. Okay, that's a lot. What TV show best describes your childhood?

Oh, man. Or what TV show did you ever fantasize being a part of? I loved Mr. Ed, the talking horse. That was your favorite? It was one of my favorites. Okay. Yeah, that in 77 Sunset Strip. Okay.

When I was it older. In fact, I would drive down sunset trying to find the spot where they shot it. Yeah, the opening was. Yeah. Yeah. Where's kooky or whatever his name was. Got it. Do you binge watch anything on television now? Like, have you adapted to streaming culture?

Yes. What's your favorite? Well, I really enjoyed Line of Duty. Okay. A Line of Duty. It's a BBC cop show about police corruption. Okay. I like all those shows about police corruption.

Okay. Were you a wirehead? Love the wire. I mean, yeah, those are the classic shows, you know. Got it, got it. The wire is maybe my all-time favorite show. Gotcha. Yeah.

In your childhood bedroom, the posters ever adorned your wall? Who adorned your wall in your childhood bedroom? I think Dylan probably. Okay. Yeah. What era Dylan are you most loyal to? Oh, only the early stuff. I actually don't really like anything after 1970.

Okay, so you're not a self-portrait. I came into Dylan Weird. My parents became the way that, like, Reagan's Christian America just washed over the black community. My introduction to Dylan was Christian Dylan. Oh, wow. I don't even know if I know Christian Dylan. Oh, God. Yeah.

Like, to this day, I'm the only, when I told him, like, where are you going to wake up? Like his on the yellow album, we slow train coming. Like I told him that. And he just looked at me like, oh, I'm so sorry. Wow. Like, yeah, started with his three Christian album period.

And I think, what, I think Fidel's broke that in 83. But I always get into the wrong rock album for every band. Like, you know, you ask eight-year-old me, I'll be like, yeah, man, Satan, and Majesty's Request. It's cool, right? I was like, no. Yeah, no, but I just always.

It was a cool cover. Yes, there you go. That's their one saving grace. But, you know, as I got older, then, of course, there were people that set me straight. Yeah. Yeah, I picked that. I had an older brother, too. He sort of made fun of me.

Like, you don't know what he's talking. about. Really? Because, like, who does know what Dylan was actually talking about? Were you the family black sheep in terms of, like, your tastes in... No, not at all. Oh, there were more that were... Well, my brother was super eccentric person who later became schizophrenic.

But... And he was always getting into trouble. Okay, okay. So, I was a goody, goody one. Do you remember the first concert you ever attended? Actually, the first concert I ever went to was in Hong Kong when I was living there when I was 12. Okay. It was Herman's Hermits.

On an Army base or? No, it was, my dad was a professor at UCLA, and he took some students there to start a study program at the college, Chinese University. And they came while we were there and played. Yeah, they did a concert. I now know that when you do worldwide, like, people are somewhat different now, but I know that back then, like, concerts were very different in terms of... I mean, I actually don't remember it. Okay.

Very much. I remember, like, in the hotel bars there that sort of pretty young Chinese girls would wear buffunt dresses and play beetle covers. Okay. Okay, so this is different than the first records you owned because CD culture came later. Do you remember the very first CD that you purchased? No. Thank you. All right. Ceds are just like, you know, they might have been things we blacked from the record label or something, you know. Right. Oh, yeah, I was going to say, oh, wait a minute. So I asked Weezer this question. So I got to ask you this question. And another main reason why there's so much reverence and respect for you guys is simply because of the insane amount of times that Sonic Youth records have fed the roots in terms of, okay, and by you saying what you said, I know that this isn't just something that's unique to me, which is you always visit the record label. You go into the supply closet.

You take all the CDs. Right. And then you go to the village and sell them the bleaker bobs. And then, you know, Weezer said that they too lived off of the blue album in Piggerton by selling their own CDs to. Oh, that's funny. I mean, when we first signed to Geffen or what I said, DGC. Geffen, yeah. We took a bunch of stuff like the Guns and Roses welcome at these like Madonna candles and all kinds of stuff.

We sold. The same I felt like, hey, what's that over there? And like, you're like the Pink Panther. You know, like us walking. You know, like the trench coat with three people stack on top of each other. Like, that's us like, take your shit out of the studio just to get money on Fridays. Yeah, I'll say, yeah, ecstasy, sonic youth. Just.

I can't believe that we influenced your decision to sign together. Well, you know what's weird? I had a manager that... So something happened, like, around 92, 93, where he realized that because of us being a band, that that opened more doors than... Like, there was no hip-hop whatsoever really in Philly except for, like, specialized...

What about schoolie? Yeah, but he would have to play rap shows. And we... got like the last days of like nirvana being the the household secret like they played j c dobs maybe a month before we played j c dobs okay so i think that my manager figured out a way that by 93-94 certain hip-hop groups could sort of fit on the alternative stages so like us doing lollapalooza or Anything with Jane's addiction or anything with, like, just that first, like, you guys were probably the only guys that we didn't open for, but pretty much a big part of our

growing as a group. Number one, whenever Wu-Tang would mess up, we'd be the band the call. Hey, Wu-Tang's not going to make it next week to da-da-da-da-da. Can you guys feel it? So that was like half of it. And then the other half would just be us being the open act. Like Cypress Hill and Public Enemy really had to pay almost a tiny credibility price. Because the rule was rap groups should only be a rap shows only.

And if you're not with, if you're opening for you too, if you're opening out, you're selling that. Right, right, right. So those guys caught major flack. And then around 93, like no one cared anymore. And that's when we arrived and literally like, right when the sea change happened. Have you ever going karaoke? Never. You've never going karaoke?

No. Okay. To be fair, I've only been twice in my life. And I think both times we're in Japan. But I head scratch at people that love karaoke because it's like, I tell them, I perform for a living. Right. And to me, the only enjoyable karaoke is when people sound horrible. so that would never

So you would never be chorused whatsoever to Yeah I did a cover song that way For addicted to love You know they used to have this booth on St. Marks Okay So I went there and I did that And it was when the band was In the studio making shit up

For the Waddy album Right And I was kind of not down with that Because it was just three guys like I'm wasting time Got you And then I took that And actually took it back to the studio

We sped it up a little And then I went to Macy's and made a video Because they used to have these For 1999 you could go in And it still was my favorite video It's just so great to like Walk out And pay 1999

And have a two camera shoot Right Okay What song do you love That you think everybody hates of our songs or just in general of any song created Oh geez

That's a tough question Okay Have you ever made a mixtape for someone I did make a mixtape For some actor once Okay I don't remember what was on it Sorry

All right If you were to make me a mixtape What three songs would have to be on it Having not really known me Well I guess I would put A Brigitte Fontaine art ensemble I forget the name of the record

but have you ever heard it? Art ensemble of Chicago or? Yeah. I might own it. They did an improv session together. Okay. Okay.

I don't know. Noi. The pink record. Okay. Can I ask what song has the power to make you cry no matter how many times

you hear it instantly? Maybe Cortez the killer. What is it about it? Neil Young. I don't know. It's just like the melody. It's like what he hits is when... You know something? Okay. I'll... This gives me to this day. And I'm mad that it's not as accessible, but the Philadelphia song that Neil Young sings. I know people know the streets of Philadelphia by Springsteen for that soundtrack. But when the credits go up, Neil Young has... I mean, you know, like, he has a very heartbreaking sounding, like, sensitive. voice, but Neil Young singing his version of Philadelphia. Huh.

That has nothing to do with the Springsteen version. It is, it's like one of the most heartbreaking. Oh, to check it out. One time I had to make a funeral mix, and I thought, let me put moody sad songs on there, and it came up. And I realized I overdid it, so, like, me running back to the high five, like, trying to turn something else on. Okay, so I feel like your downtown scene, your hashtag or quote downtown scene is,

well, for me, the Neo-Soul scene was supposed to be, where I don't know if I owned it. I didn't completely disown it, but for you, what's one of the biggest myths of the downtown scene that you always hear that never happened? Well, in the 80s, especially early 80s, people from Europe always wanted to come and do articles about the crossover between the music scene and the art world, which kind of didn't exist. I mean, it did exist in the very early 80s, like during kind of the height of Norway fans. And there were a lot of young artists who, you know, were drawn in part of the age. kind of part of that scene, but then by the mid-80s, they were kind of

just into their careers, you know, our careers. And it was, so it wasn't really what people thought it was in terms of this mecca of, like, it was super bleak in the 80s,

you know, also. But that part is kind of, I guess I can be nostalgic about that a little bit. Who coined the term no wave. And is that really truly, is it possible? Like, is it just rejecting the idea of a title, or is it kind of like, you know, in the filmmaker world where, you know, Dogman 95 was supposed to be this, like, restrictive movement and whatnot? Like, were there rules to the no wave? Not really. I mean, I think it was kind of, I think it was kind of nihilistic, actually. I mean, I, I

some people might disagree with me but like when punk was supposed to be this movement that kind of obviously different fractions but that destroyed rock which it didn't it was three chord rock and roll it was just anti-corporate

you know it was it was different lyrics and a different sensibility of what music was supposed to be but But no wave was actually really deconstructed rock. Like you didn't necessarily have, there's a lot of dissonance and density. And it seems just peculiar to New York, although Japan was kind of parallel. And Japan, they had art movements that came post-World War II, right?

like no theater and anyway it was kind of a nihilistic attitude and so it's kind of interesting that that was pretty much particular to New York and maybe the influence of like free jazz and you know other different sounds minimalist composition new music you know Lamont Young and John Cage and people like that. You know, I think that sort of contributed to it a bit. But it was also just a feeling of like, no, this is the song isn't going to have like a beginning, a middle of an end. And to me it was very free music. And that's what inspired me to play music.

Gotcha. Are any of the rules that you placed on yourselves for that period still exists for you? Yeah, kind of, and that the main rule was not to really learn how to play music, which is kind of a technique in itself, I realize. Okay, let's take, if I was say the biggest year for noise, in my opinion, especially having to work at a record store that year, I would say 88. Now, it's not like I think there was a collective meeting being had by various genres. genres of music

but really just this movement starts like how where are you guys that even in the black music world like what public enemy is about to start doing with this aggressive noise sound

like for me like the day that the first song that they experimented with in which they really tested the limits of like what the hell is that was when they released Rebel Without a Pause in the summer of 87. And it changed my walk.

I almost had a Henson-esque disposition in the hood. Hey, guys, how you doing? You know? And you hear this and it changes you. And I realized like, oh, this is my first soundtrack to teenage angst, like, whatever I feel. But in general, like, what is the genesis of the embracing of the... of dissonance and just, was there a political anger in the air? Were you all Yoko Ono fans?

Did you discover free jazz in the 60? Like, what was it? I don't know. I mean, I think it was just a very gradual thing. Like, we, you know, like, we were influenced by the no way bands. We were influenced by free jazz. We were certainly into public enemy and kind of related to their music in terms of density. And, you know, we were recording at the same studio they were.

Is this Chum King? No, it was Green Street. Green Street? Okay. Yeah, yeah. I was about to say, what was it like recording at Green Street, Beckman? Well, it was kind of funny because this engineer we had had never done guitar music. Who's your engineer? His name was Nick Sansano. Oh, Nick? Yeah. Professor Nick Sansano. Okay. Yeah. We were the first. gets harp band he ever recorded. And I don't know really what he thought, but it was basically

I think he understood it in terms of layers of sound, just the way he would record with public enemy or yeah. Professor Nick was one of the, when I taught at NYU, he's one of the co-teachers

also long. Like Nick Sinano did the public enemy records, like all the bomb squad stuff. Sonic Youth, like all these New York institutional bands. And then Bob Howard also taught there, and he's doing a trap called Quest and De La Sol and eventually DeAngelo, the Roots, and that stuff.

But Nick told me something mind-blowing about just his lack of experience as an engineer during that time period. And he informed me that, like, we almost did no automation mixing on Public Enemy. Like, all that stuff was, pre-done, which if you know their music, you're like, well, this has to be a post thing. And it's like, no, we always did it pre-vent. But for you in that time period, was it just not knowing there were rules or just like purposely, like how many we shouldn't do that or can't do that conversations were had?

I mean, not many, you know, probably there were just discussions about, well, it's. it shouldn't go into the red or too far or something. I'm not satisfied until it goes in the red. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure. Like, he was just super, like, agreeable, you know? Got it. And we would try, you know, Lee would try things out that we knew wasn't going to end up on the record, but whatever, you know.

Like, some of it did, you know. But, yeah, I do recall, I think it was at studio where, yeah, there'd be a number of hands on the board. during mixing, you know? Right. And then you're just figuring out. So at the time, are you saying that both bands were making like you were making Daydream Nation

and they were making Nation? They were in the other room. They were in the newer room, you know, the, I think it was an automated board actually. Right. Yeah, some kind of. So did you guys realize? We were like this old board. Did you realize that you had two

nation albums in common at the time when you were making this? I mean, that's where, like, you know, we did cool thing, and I asked Chuck if he would come and do this. Like, he did kind of the most cliche thing. Right. But it was perfect, you know. Okay. Okay.

But I just also remember waiting for Flav, you know, everyone would be waiting for Flay to come. And then for, like, days or something. And then eventually you'd hear, like, his floppy feet going down the stairs. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, you know from Stepbrose, brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo.

Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I always wanted to know when the Geffen Records deal happened, like was there ever a worry of like being on a major at the time like you guys being on there was the cool factor was just like oh it's geffen it's cool because that's where they landed so it can't be that bad yeah but at the time there was no you know you guys had donna summer and elton john yeah i mean there's you know like uh friends bar us like um or not friends but peers husker do had signed to

a major, right? And replacements. And I don't know, I guess we figured, like, we were just always frustrated at our lack of distribution. So we, that's what we, one reason why we did it, you know, and we were just like, well, we've been together for 10 years. So if it doesn't work, fuck it. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. And it was a struggle for sure. Okay. was a major key factor for us, critical claim, credibility. Yeah. There was also this sort of, what I will say, a kind of a false narrative,

which was basically that, oh, well, you guys don't care about success. Like, they were always like, yeah, I like you guys, because, you know, you do what you want to do, and the label supports what you want to do, and I wish I could make music like you guys do. And I'm like, well, it's not like we're sun, raw. We don't know how to write a good course. So, like, no one told us that we should only write 16 bars and an easy course.

Like, so it's almost like I didn't know how to write accessible music. And so, but we basically got tagged with like, oh, well, we like you guys because you don't care about success. Okay, so in 87, 87, 88. what does making it look like to you? Is it a, this one job is all I need to do to live in this apartment and pay all these bills? Or were you fine with a life where, okay, I play in my band and sometimes, like the amount of people I've interviewed here and didn't know that, you know, Millie Jackson's telling me that she would gig on the weekends, but then she used to work in the garment district from, and this is with like platinum records. Yeah. So for you, what does making it look like, especially when you're tagged with this credibility thing?

Well, we kind of had part-time jobs, or at least one of us did. But the thing is, is that we were kind of smart in that we had a separate English label that we licensed to as well as a label here. so we would get licensing money from that and you know when we kind of somehow got a little more money each time to record it a better studio which was would be Green Street I guess it just kind of you know was such a gradual thing when we did sign to Geffen I guess we got

I don't know like it goo was kind of it was a tough record got you because well one thing we did have some backlash. Like Steve Albini was like, you guys. You know, we didn't talk to Steve for a long time. I know, I know.

But, you know, the thing was that, yeah, we could do whatever we wanted, but it's not like they really promoted our, they didn't give us a giant marketing budget either. But we were able to actually have our own record label, S-Y-R, and put out vinyl. And they actually never realized that we weren't making money off of that. Not a lot, but you know, it's like... Is it

frustrating being in the Moses position where, you know, the beginning it was good for us, like this particular act... Well, no, you know, this particular act that's opening for you is like, wow,

you've done everything, no, no, that's cool. And then like, next year, wow, they're at Madison Square Garden. Okay, cool. And this next opening act after the seventh time, then my self-esteem started to go down where it's just like, oh, man, like, I'm not saying, well, I used to joke back then,

like, I don't want to be fishbone. Like, I don't want to be the band so cool that just traffic directs everyone to go on the Red Carpard and then suddenly you're going on the Moses Ark thing and you can't have that, what we used to call a Bentley moment. My manager's like, yeah, you guys just never had a Bentley moment. You didn't fail, but you just, in your mind, this idea of you slow motion in clubs and, you know, rap shit.

We never had that. But for you guys, was a disappointment, not saying disappointing that you didn't get that level of accolades. Right, like Nirvana, Arizona. Yeah, like to watch people that you influenced. Yeah. I mean, not really. I mean, Nirvana was such an anomaly. And also, I think our path had just been so kind of slow and steady,

and it allowed us to do other things that we wanted to do. And it's a fame like that is just a freaky thing. Gotcha. It really just brings up so much. So maybe other people. in the band were more frustrated. I don't know. I meant to allow.

But it was kind of like, you know, we had our niche, and we kind of were able to have a living. And, you know, I just feel now like I'm so pessimistic about the music industry and streaming. And it makes me not want to play music or make music. You want to take your ball and go home? I do. Oh, I know.

All right, well, can I... Okay, so the thing is, I'm... Like, I feel like I'm working for Lucian Grange. You know, like, I'm his employee. Weren't we always? Yeah, I guess so. Weren't we all? What this is leading to is, as a member of Rock and Roll of Fame and whatnot,

like, in terms of making sure that these pioneering bands also get there, would that mean anything to you to this point to get that? last, like, does that mean anything? What, rock and roll hall of fame? Yeah. I don't know. It seems kind of meaningless in a certain way. Like, it's sort of a popularity contrast.

Like, it's not, it doesn't seem any more to be about, like, people who had significant impact. Or now it's just like, oh, they sold a lot of records. I know. But I'm just saying, like, would, and I know it's a weird question. Like, will you allow yourself to? really enjoy getting the flowers or just I guess I mean when I was nominated for Grammys I was even saying I was kind of like I hate the Grammys

it's just this music industry thing that I've never paid attention to my whole life and you know I don't quite it's it's nothing I like about the music and you know about music is the industry but at the same time I did feel it was kind of fun to be recognized, you know, outside of my ghetto or whatever. Well, because I think what's happening now is that all that you influenced, have you allowed yourself to see that the influence is real? And again, I'm asking you as a person who 80% of the

time an act comes up to me and says, oh my God, you changed our lives and da-da-da-da-da. And, yeah, the pre-therapy me would just basically like, well, if I was so important, then why am I playing, you know, Kalamazoo, Michigan State Fair and da-da-da-da. Like, there was a part where I actually let that get to me. But then there's also a part where I realized that I might have aided in my own kind of sabotaging a few. Even though I'm still going on the path to, I don't know where it is I'm supposed to be going, but I'm just one day at a time. You're going to have a kid. That's the reward. Let me ask you these last few questions.

So, one, how hard is it to embrace a new pivot once you've established yourself in sort of flak planet? your legacy in one area, which of course is in Sonic Youth, like in walking away from all those things and it being in your rearview mirror, and not being jaded and cynical, like, how do you embrace other pivots that you want to do? Like, how do you view collaborations now? Because collaborations were a big part of that world you came from. I mean, it's been fairly kind of easy in a way because, you know, like I, accidentally made a solo record and then I made another and another.

How do you accidentally make a solo record? Well, I met Justin raising through his brother. Okay. Like, we were sitting next to each other at a restaurant and we suddenly found ourselves. That's how it came to be? Yeah. He and this girl started talking about their sex lives and the tables were really close together and we all looked at each other.

Like, I was with this friend of mine. I don't know. And then we just started talking. And he was like, oh, my brother's a producer. He worked with Sky Ferreira. And, like, I don't care. You know, like, that's not my world, right? But then his brother DM me and said he was working on this Lawrence Rothburn record,

and they were having to people come in and do vocals. And he kept sending me stuff. And I finally, he sent me something. I felt, okay, I can. Could be interesting. I should be open. Right. When you collaborate with people, are you 100% familiar with the worlds that they come from? Or is it just, hey, let's see what happens? Well, I don't usually collaborate with people that much.

And so what happened was I was pretty skeptical, actually, but I did these vocals and he took, the leftovers, and he made this trashy drum beat to go with it and sent it to me. And I was kind of like, oh, wow, this is kind of cool. Like, he really understands my sensibility. So I went back and did more vocals and put some guitar down. And that song became murdered out. Okay. And then about six months later, we just started working together.

And Justin's pretty wild. But he does come from like punk rock East Coast roots And he, you know, he has seen new Sonic Youth and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so we just, he kind of just gets my vocal style And I know I can go in with anything And he'll make it into a song basically. Can you talk about how the collective project came to be In terms of like it's kind of DNA into a,

world of hip-hop that really sounds natural. Like it sounds awesome, if I say so myself. Thanks. I mean, he and his brother do hip-hop beats and stuff for people. His brother more than he does. Jerry.

I'm not a natural singer, so I have a limited range, and so I get really inspired and I use things like space and rhythm and just articulation. You know, that's... So I was happy, you know, I was really happy

to actually work the beats on it. And then I would add my dissonant stuff, which you don't really hear in hip-hop so much. I know, right? When they turn to rock, it's like three-cord like power chords. Hip-hop is supermarket music now.

Yeah, but I guess now, like, people are listening to, like, chew-gazing. You know, really influence kind of putting, sampling a lot of that, funny. It's funny enough. I'm going to ask you the question that I hate when people ask me this question. You could pass if not. Is there anyone new that you listen to now? Like, I hope that one day you and Tyler, the creator, run across each other.

Like, if anything. That's interesting. He's always saying you sound a little like Tyler and this. Yeah, I was going to say, like, you and Tyler, I think that, That should be a, that's a project that I can almost, you guys should work with each other. I'm open to that. I mean, I'm always a little, like, skeptical of, like, yeah, working with someone with a big name, you know? Like, I did something with model homes, you know, those guys?

No. Experimental. Okay. Two guys. Yeah, we made a single. I love that now, Tyler, is a big name. It's a parallel universe, but his beginnings. are very much, like, it's the downtown scene, like, literally a collective, just the West Coast

hip-hop version of whatever you want to call it, the mumblecore movement or his version of Dogman 95, like, I believe that both of you have your roots almost in the same parallel universe. Can you tell me how you got involved in the chronology of water project with Christian Stewart? Yeah, just, I mean, I knew Christian a little bit. And she just came over, asked me if I would do this small part in her film and explained what it was, sent me the script. And it just seemed, you know, fun. I mean, I like her a lot. I have immense respect for her.

She's very articulate about what she wants. And, you know, she, yeah, just super smart. Now, I know that you've revisited your first memoir. Yes. Golden and Band. Why did you find it necessary to update? the story. I don't know, just the editor had the idea

to put out a 10-year anniversary of it. And so, and asked if I'd read a new chapter. Got it. Yeah. How cathartic was the whole process of unloading what it felt like to be in that experience

from your point of view? I liked, I mean, I like writing. Sometimes I feel like it's the only way I know what I'm thinking is when I start riding and his stuff comes out. I'm like, who's that? Got it. In closing, I'll ask you, what's the one thing that you hope that your peers say about you? I don't know. That I'm funny.

Okay. I mean, there's a lot of humor in, especially the new record. Yeah. I think people think of me as super serious. I feel like as I get older, I'm not as serious. What's the one thing that the press never says about you that you wish we knew about you? Is that you have a sense of humor?

Yeah, I guess so. Well, I thank you for answering my crazy questions and I thank you for everything that you represented. And I know that sometimes when you're in this position you feel like no one's paying attention

or from one person that looked at a Moses figure that ushered in a movement I just want to say thank you for that. I was paying attention, and I appreciate your work and your artistry. Oh, thanks. I appreciate that.

It makes me happy. The very cool Kim Gordon on The Questlove show, and I'll see you guys on the next program. Mutual to you as well. Thank you. The Questlove show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G., Brian Cahoon, and me. Produced by...

Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for IHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Conroy. IHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Lowy. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks to Kathy Braun. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel.

Please subscribe, break, review, and share the Questlove show wherever you stream your podcast. Make sure you follow us on socials. That's at QLS. Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLS episodes, including the Quest Love Supreme Shows and our podcast archives. The Questlove show is a production of I-Heart Radio. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Sondland's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian, Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. this is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.