The Questlove Show - Maseo of De La Soul

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

De La Soul’s Maseo sits down with Questlove for an unfiltered deep dive into his Hip-Hop journey, his approach to deejaying, and the making of a true original. From volatile days in Brooklyn and Long Island to early block parties and the creation of classics like “Me Myself and I,” “Afro Connections,” and the epic “Cool Breeze on the Rocks” splice session, Mase breaks down the art, risk, and innovation behind De La’s catalog. He explains how a skipping record sparked a 20-minute freestyle, how an eight-second guitar pedal became his first sampler, and how the same laugh he was once teased about eventually became a defining element of Gorillaz’ “Feel Good Inc.” Plug 3 also opens up about the Nitro Tour, navigating music-industry politics, pioneering De La’s Kickstarter era, and processing the loss of Dave while keeping the group’s legacy alive.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. The Questlove Show is a production of I-Heart Radio. What's up, everybody?

Welcome back to the Questlove Show. And a few weeks back, I did a one-on-one episode with Pasta News of De La soul, the legendary day la soul. And I want to thank you all for the comments and the shares and the likes and all those reviews. You know, as I stated, I always wanted to have Macyo on for his own episode. And here we are in IHeart Studios in New York making good on that promise. Over the next few weeks, we're doing something a little different here on the show. We've teamed up with Levi's and their behind every original campaign for a series of special conversations. And honestly, the name says it all.

We're talking to artists who charted their own path. People didn't wait for permission, didn't follow the blueprint, especially when things got hard, and came out the other side having left an actual indelible mark on the culture. Levi's has been the uniform for people like that for over 150 years now. Extraordinary people who built their whole career on their own terms. It only makes sense that Levi's would be behind this too. shout out to Levi's for doing this.

This is the first of three conversations we're going to have called Making of an Original and dovetail perfectly and to my plans to speak with Macyo as a producer, DJ, and a bigger-than-life personality, a living hip-hop legend. Macyo and his group are self-made, and we're here to talk about de la soul and much more. Plug three, Macyo, my cousin Vinny. Welcome to The Quest Love Show. My brother. What goes on, sir?

I love the intro. Thank you. There's a lot that you've done, pioneered just as yourself in this group, that most people don't acknowledge. One is that the idea of the DJ actually having a voice on wax. You know, Furious Five would address flash, flash two times. You just hear the band go off. Public Enemy famously made Terminator X silent. I later found out because he has the nerdyest voice of all time.

That was one of the smartest. You said it, not me. Business. That's my man Storm and Norman. Yeah. Right. Yes. One of the greatest nerds of all time.

You know, your contributions to the group, like, DJs didn't have equal my time. I mean, of course, in the 90s, of course, Pete Rock would do certain, you know, people that would produce and rhyme at the same time. But it was, it wasn't novelty. It was almost like the DJs allowed to rhyme, too. Like the DJ was just supposed to be in the background, scratch. Here's the thing. So I noticed on doing our own thing and on Peace Parts,

you have some of the greatest intro stanzas, and it never finishes. Because even last night, I was listening to doing our own thing on the Jungle Brothers album. And it was like, me, plug three. I was like, oh, she's my brother called Baby! And after all the buddy, there's nothing else. I know.

Africa wrote that the rounds for me, too. Okay. But even on piece parts, there's just like four lines. But in my head, I'm like, now, yes, legitimately, you know, Afro connections and let me in, all that stuff, you went deeper into it. But, yeah, I was going to say, why was your intro so short? Like, did you not protest that I don't get a 16 like the rest of you guys? First of all, I never really liked my voice. I really didn't, honestly.

You serious? At that time, too, every. time I would speak Africa, Q-tip, even POS. They was like, yo, man, you need to rhyme. You need the rhyme. And then also POS heard me on some earlier stuff before we became a group. Right. When I was a part of another group.

Okay. I just never really cared for my voice. But it was these guys- Because you think you sound goofy. Yeah, I think I sound- But you don't know, I hate my voice too and didn't rhyme since the do you want more days. All right. So I'm the nerd that not only studies the records,

but I also study the critical claim you get because I love journalism as well. And what I remember distinctively about the five mic review of De La Sol is Dead was them saying, and God damn, like, Macy was rhyming his ass off for me and Toreka, like, what? And it just so happens. Like, that was one of the earliest examples of like,

and now I'm getting leaked way earlier than it should have. So somehow we had a connection to get De La Sol's Dead like months beforehand. And actually, you guys didn't know who we were. Like you did a trip to Philly and were performing. And we were like saying all the lyrics. And you guys even looked at us like, how do you guys know this shit? I was tripping. I remember that.

Yeah, but I mean, for you, though, was it hard to talk you into taking so much verses on De La Sol is Dead? The people around me gave me confidence. I think I was surrounded around a strong set of MCs that saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. Okay. The way we all supported one another, you know, you felt the need to take heed. Why is he saying this or why is she saying this?

There's something I think I need to be listening to because no one's really making fun of me. No one's... They actually really... Taking you seriously. Taking me seriously. So let me step into it, especially when I feel like I'm being guided about real credible MCs.

So when you're doing your vocals, are you cutting, like, when I do that shit, it's like Michael Jackson style. I want to guard in front of me. I want to be in the dark. I want no one watching me. I want everyone out the room. In the very beginning, a lot of 40 ounces. Yeah, I was about to say, and it's coconut water.

And then the beginning, 40 ounces was the courage. Okay. And then, oh, wait, you're talking about the 40 ounces. Oh, okay. I was just playing this in the background. I think your 40s was the courage. Really? Yeah, like, you know, alcohol, lessensure and inhibitions.

Because I did wonder, because the thing was, it was like, I think because I have so much respect for Tariq as a wordsmith, and whenever people ask like yo man you you did like two verses on the first record and then what happened and in my mind it was just like Tariq was so advanced math in his craft

I didn't want to insult that by I feel the same way and I was like you're entering for the craft but the thing is is that your wordplay and all that stuff like especially on like with Afro connections and let me in you kept up with them like it was

abstract rhyming, and I believe... Dres from Black Sheep helped me out with Let Let Me in. Nice. I can't take full credit for all of that. Dave also helped me with my second verse on AfroConnection. Afro connection, okay.

But I think being around them, a lot just rubbed off, being in a whole native tongue wave of all the emcees that was around at that time. Especially that was also a time period. I was hanging out with Grand Puba a lot. Okay. And Poob was putting the battery in my back as well.

He was like, makes you need the rhyme. And if Grand Puba is telling you that, come on, man. Got you. Got you. You know. Especially with hip-hop Vin. A lot of your verses in your terms are now kind of in the roots everyday vernacular. Like to this day, when I'm trying to duck somebody, I will respond, you, gee, Pasa's doing the producing.

Which, yo, so this journalist is out. I'm like, POS is doing the producer. We probably drop Shields, no, hills, no, bills, no. Oh, man. Like, we probably stopped doing that maybe, like, right before phrenology. Our expression of, like, oh, shit,

it's like, oh, there, Shills, no, bills, no. Like, a lot of the things that you probably wouldn't think caught on to your fan base, like, a lot of that shit just became, like, our everyday vernacular. but, no, your voice was awesome, man. And it gave me encouragement, like, oh, so I just don't have to shut up and play ball. Like, I don't just have to do the music.

You said that to me on a video you made for my birthday. I did? Yeah. Oh. And I really appreciated that. I really, really did. It was true, man. That had meant a lot to me.

That gave a lot of us confidence of those that didn't think they had a voice or any of that stuff. Where were you born? I was born in Brooklyn, Bethlehurst-Divison. Okay. Same hospital was Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson. Okay, okay. Yeah. It's weird because I think on first look, we would look to you.

I always thought you were the oldest member of De La Oswald. And it turns out you literally are the baby, like the baby. I'm baby Huey, yeah. What was your house environment like? A single-parent home, pretty volatile environment. I've been robbed in my childhood. So a big part of my childhood is doing what we do for a living. Right.

This had been my dream since I started conceiving this thing. I could say... Did you have siblings or... No, one brother. One brother, he's younger than I. So you were the older brother? I'm the older brother. So that's another thing.

So you had to... Were you the leader? Yeah, pretty much. Having to take care of my brother, helping my mother out in different scenarios, you know. But yeah. I turned in my 1977 was when I actually saw this thing up close. And I used to get a Big Will every summer. Remember Big Will?

Yeah, I used to get a Big Will every summer. And 78, I didn't want a Big Will. I wanted a DJ mixer. And I got a DJ mixer for my birthday, and it was a Spir Sonic up and down. Okay. Fader. Okay. Yeah, that was the first thing I got.

And then my uncle helped me put two component stereos together. That was my first DJ set. Right. Was the component set with the automatic arm. No belt, nothing. My slipmats was. Other records? No, it was other records along with the wax from the Chinese restaurant.

With the wax paper. Smart. From the Chinese restaurant. Okay. On the wax paper will help me slide the records. And also, you know, you played records longer back then. So due to the fact that I had no pitch control, I would play records around the same tempo

and kind of drag them or push them a little because I had the wax paper just so I could get the mix in on time. But, yeah. So, okay, most people who are not Bronx-born that come on the show, I always asked them about, like, as far as their hip-hop experiences are concerned, because I think to the outside world, not one of them people, I thought hip-hop was just a Bronx thing and a Bronx thing only, like Brooklyn, Long Island, Stett, like none of them were doing what they were doing in the Bronx.

But I later found out that that's not the case. Like, where would you see these block parties and who was the DJ of, what was your come to Jesus moment? My coming to Jesus moment, Hancock between Marcy and Nostrin, right in the streets of Brooklyn, 231 Hancock Street. They came one day with these DJs. I learned there was DJs that day. These guys were just on my block until they started bringing this equipment out this one summer.

And this was the summer after the blackout. Okay. The summer after the blackout. Do you remember the blackout of New York? I remember the blackout in New York. I was scared as hell. Yeah. How long did it last for?

It was a couple of days. I can't really remember. It was a few days. Oh. Yeah, yeah. More than 24 hours. Yeah, it was more than 24 hours. I remember Williamsburg getting destroyed to shit around that time.

Remember a long time, Williamsburg was underdeveloped. Williamsburg is where date night is for me. Now. Back then, it was a desolate area. You didn't want to be around no time of day or night. Did people live there? Or was it just like... Prior to the blackout, yeah.

It was businesses and everything. But when the blackout hit, it was completely destroyed. Destroyed. When I tell you, destroyed, it was desolate. Nothing over there. You wouldn't even scared to take the train through there. It's nothing. Because I never heard people give a shout-out to Williamsburg ever.

So to see Williamsburg to get turned around. Trust me, a lot of what I see in Brooklyn these days are very shocking to me. Even now as you go through it? Yeah, Fort Green. To see people over there. Have the greatest pancakes ever. Yo, see people over there with baby carriages and families and all of that. Right.

It wasn't that back then. Okay. Fort Green, a lot of people got PTSD from Fort Green. Got you. You know, you know. But these were areas that were not so nice back then. So did you ever live in Long Island? Oh, yeah.

I moved to Long Island when I was 14. I had a huge fight in Brooklyn. And the last place I lived before I moved. moved to Long Island was in Bushwick with my grandmother. And I grew up with Bushwick Bill a little bit, too. Yeah. So he was from New York originally? That's how he got his name.

He's from Bushwick, Brooklyn. I never knew that. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And he went to Bushwick High School. And he used to also hang out with these Zulu cats called Zulu Savages. It was a chapter of Zulu.

Okay. Zulu Savages. They basically was the underworld for Zulu Nation. Okay. The earners, you know. Gotcha. But for the most part, I had gotten to a big fight with one of them dudes, his name was Mario. Okay.

And everybody was pretty much scared of this dude. I was scared of this dude. He was the Debo of... Kind of sort of. Okay. But he was a Napoleon debo. Oh, shorted people. Shorted, but with a heart like a shark, you know?

And he was a supreme bully. Around this time, I had to be like... 12, 13. At this point, I was on my way to become a bit of a tyrant myself because I had some issues that turned me left, you know. So it was no more... Just in terms that you had to protect yourself? Yeah, I had to protect myself.

So it was no more bullying mace. I used to go to Bedstyle Boxing Association. I used to go to P.A.L. So I started developing my hands. I also started getting familiar with the little weapons and all that here and there. You, though, as the oldest, now usually, like, around my way, if you went outside or whatever, their equivalent of wait till your father gets home is always, well, I'm going to get my brother to fuck you up or my cousin to fuck you up. Like, there are some people that were always protected.

But when you're the oldest one, like, did you not have- I don't got nobody to go home to for that? Yikes. Yeah. So it was on and cracking every time. I live in fight or flight a lot, you know. That's traumatic. Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah, it was one fight I had with this dude, Mario, that by the grace of God, I came out on top, you know. Years went by. That was the fight that got me to Long Island. My mother, my mother wrote a letter. My mother grew up a foster child most of her life. So, yeah, my mom ended up writing her foster parents and her foster father and telling him this story. and I end up finding a letter later. But come the end of that summer after that fight, because it was a really big thing. Everybody was like, my nickname at the time,

to anybody from Brooklyn that calls me fat man, know me. Really? Really knows me. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So he was like, fat, he having a fight, fat, fight Mario, fat fight Mario. And that was a really big thing. Everybody was coming out their house.

And I just happened to, I was scared. How was he? I don't know. He had to been much older. It just, he appeared to be older. So I don't really know. Right. I was all but 13.

And it was all over a centipede game. Dude, it's always over video games. Yeah, yeah. This was one of the days I was having a great day. Right. I was killing it. This day, any other time I'm losing. I'm killing it on this quarter this day.

Right. Getting a free man every time, all that. Right. And he came over and he was like, yo, hurry up and get up off of this. and I looked at him like he was just crazy and I just kept playing I'm rocking the stores watching me play You know when you're having a good one

Everybody's rallying around you I know this feeling well So he came over a few more minutes later And he pulled the plug Instinctively I just pushed him Like what the fuck you're doing I didn't mean to push him But that is just it was an instinct

Like fuck is on your mind And then we started going out it And he pulled out like a spike belt He had a spike belt on wrapped around, swung on me. I caught it. Next thing you know, I'm on them. The hands I was earning the last two summers came to life.

And I was lighting his ass up. And everybody was like, yo, fat man is fucking up, Mario. And everybody was sure that, like, I just felt like I had a victory that day. Right. But everybody was like, yo, he got to get out of here. He's got to get it because they felt like this dude. Because then he's going to come back and murder me. You know what I mean?

Gotcha. Because they were on that type of time. Bushwick Bill used to, God rest of his soul, he used to tell his story all the time, but he used to tell a story differently. He would tell a story all the time because Bill thought I went to school with him, and it didn't happen at Bushwick High School. I lived in the neighborhood, but I didn't go to Bushwick High School. So your rest of beating the school bully or the kind of neighborhood bully got around?

Bill was around every day. Like, we all played in Bushwick Park. So we either played softball or we played, we play softball, we play basketball, or we was on the swings and all of that on the other side, you know. Back then the swings used to be used to kind of, you know. I know. The swings was a real thing back then.

360? 360. Yeah, I'm busting my skull a few times doing that shit. Right. But, yeah, that was the park. And we were playing until they cut the lights off in the park. Do you have a fond memory of growing up in that neighborhood as well? The only best memories I could say I had was getting up in the morning.

early mornings and everybody going to find each other to either play softball, stickball, or basketball. Okay. Were you Skelly kid? Yeah, I was a Skelly kid also. Okay. I was a Skelly. Skelly was, those were my best moments. Okay.

And told somebody did something stupid. Tell somebody. It was either somebody in my crew or somebody who's coming to mess with my crew, you know. Yeah. So when you get to Long Island, like what is. Is you're, are you objecting to this, or is it like you just welcome in? And what are you thinking, like, is light out there Long Island for you? I didn't know what to expect living out there.

We used to go visit when I was younger. So I kind of knew where we were going, you know. I knew it was. Did it feel like another world or? Yeah, it felt country. It felt very southern-like. You know, it felt like you were going down south. That's what Long Island used to feel like.

Okay. You know. Although it was maybe but an hour. But as a kid at that time, that seemed so far. Seemed forever. Yeah, and you get out there as grass, trees, crickets. We were even barely picking up Kiss or BLS. You know, my uncle had an FM booster for us to even pick up radio like that, you know?

Okay. Yeah, it was super quiet. And then also I dealt with the new kid in town issue, you know. I'm dealing with now. What do you have to do to get their respect? A whole other level of bullying that I'm dealing with now. So it's the same? Same thing, just a different environment.

But now I got some new skills. I got some skills I didn't came with. Okay. And then I also learned quickly around that time period, wrestling was a big thing on Long Island. All right. Not boxing. Okay.

I had an advantage on a lot of cats. Because they come and they're coming and grabbing, and I'm tapping, and I'm tapping. Okay. Two different fighting styles going on. So I'm coming up and learning. and people learning about me really quick of the behind fighting, playing basketball, or DJ. Or eventually music.

Yeah. What do you think your first musical memory was? Your first time that you remember hearing music or, like, it having an effect on you? My earliest memory of it having an effect on me, and I'm going to say DJ more specifically than just music. DJ had an effect on me when my mom used to date this guy from the, I think he was from the Bronx or Harlem. And he had a daughter and she was much older than us. And her boyfriend, Rick, I remember Rick to this day.

And he had a DJ set. He had a DJ set. And I was so fascinated with DJing for some time, but I could never touch anybody's set. I also had an uncle who had a DJ equipment. He wouldn't let me touch it. So it was Rick who let me touch his equipment for the very first time. And for some reason, for the very first time I touched it, I knew what I was doing. And the record I was cutting up was Captain Sky.

Super Spurrump. Super Spurrump. Okay. Yeah, that was the first one I got to touch. That one and Frisco Disco. Those are the two records I really remember. Like, how would you know I need two copies of Frillspomomper? Frisco Disco, like pre-year career.

Like, it's what I saw. I didn't even have those records. It was already with the guys that I was studying at that time. Okay. Whether it was Rick, Ron C., Loki, these are the guys that was in the neighborhood. The reason why I'm asking is, all right, so a great example is James Brown. Okay. So let's take the Goodfoot.

Now, get on the Goodfoot comes out in the 72. and is a genuine hit. But that wasn't popping in Brooklyn. That's what's crazy. What I'm saying is that even the period in which James Brown is trying to sell us on the original disco man and get up off that thing, like the mustache era James Brown, hip hop is still staying in between 70 or 68 to 74. Right.

But it's not like you guys had a network or texting. Like, how would you guys know this song will never die? Like, as far as I'm concerned, Goodfoot never died ever in, since it's released in 72. But, like, does someone tell you, like, you got to pick the records that have at least a good break in it or a breakdown or... By the time I got into, really got into James Brown, it was behind listening to Molly. Okay. It was just rhyming with biz. I think what I'm asking you is...

Did it seem old? Like, okay, it's 1982, 83, I don't know if you're 13, 14, like, starting to DJ. And I'm reaching for a record from 1972. Like, for me, it took a King Brit once brought a DJ Muro to Philadelphia from Japan. And when he pulls out his records and I'm looking, I'm like, wait, my dad has these records in his thing. Like, why is he spending this? Like, I couldn't grasp that this Roy Air. record and this Commodore's record from 74 was going to work.

I didn't know about the rhythm kitchen and I didn't know about giant steps like the idea of nostalgia culture. But even in pre-85 moments, like, it didn't at once seem odd that, wait, why are we going back 15, 20 years to play stuff for us instead of, I mean, what was popping in 83? Did you ever touch the 1999 record or? Right, right. I get your point. I didn't touch anything current.

I was going... Like, at least with sampling, then it's like, okay, I see the connection. But without even the context of sampling, did it not seem odd to you that even in the 80s, I'm playing a song from like 1977 and it still works? I didn't connect with it like that then. I was really going off of what I was taught in my environment.

Got you. So it was innately a part of me, and I didn't know none of the wise. I knew... Okay. And my mom threw some parties here and there. So these was also records that was in her collection as well. Records that she would have when she's cleaning up the house. So it was just a part of me like that where I just knew it would work

because it was working in her little parties. How old were you when you did your first, okay. My first party? You're going to rock. You're going to rock it. 12. I was 12. Where was it?

My mother's housewoman party. We had moved the Crown Heights. We have moved to Crown Heights. This is the first time we had lived in something really nice. Okay. And we lived on President Street. Okay. Actually, I lived a couple doors down from Stephanie Mills.

Really? She wasn't no longer living there because she was doing the whiz. Okay. Her parents were there. I got you. And, well, it was crazy. Ben Boreen's daughter had lived down the other corner. Okay.

Yeah, it was crazy. I lived on President Street between Albany and Troy. Okay. And Stephanie lived a little more close to Albany and Ben Berenie's daughter a little more closer to Troy on the other side. the street. Gotcha. But yeah,

my mother's housewoman party on President Street. And it was whoever the DJ was, he let me get on. And I was

rocking. He was dancing with some girl. Like, right out, because this is when the music would be in one

room with all the lights on and the speakers is out. Right. With everybody I said nobody knew this

12-year-old was playing. Okay. You know, so I'm playing, and I remember the record that I really got off

was, um, do I do. But Steve I knew The way I dropped it, I would never forget that moment. My mother came and took a picture of me. I was standing on a milk crate out of the white white shirt.

White collar shirt. It was crazy. Is there anything like the adrenaline of when you play the right record and motherfuckers go, ah! Oh, man, that's some of the best feelings ever. Sometimes the time it takes to even work that out, you know. You're hoping that it'll have the impact that you think it's going to have when you're trying to put it together. And yeah, that's some of the best feelings in the world.

I used to be amateur hour with it. Like when I first really started doing it professionally, I would just go hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And be like, ah, ah, ah, oh, yeah, it's cool. Oh, yeah, he's killing it. And then, like, I realized I over-stimulated them. So then I had to learn, like, the art of highs and lows. Yeah, yeah. Like a record like don't stop till you get enough,

which you know should, you know, provoke like some sort of orgasmic scream. It's almost better if it comes from something that is lesser so that it feels... It's filled much bigger later. So for you, in all your years of DJ, what is your preferred starting record? Do you start with a monster or do you build to a monster?

I build to a monster. I like... I come from... From the era of sound system culture. So there's always been like a buildup, you know. I actually started from being the DJ who actually brought the equipment in and packed it up. So. Oh, good.

Yeah. I had. I forgot about that part. Yeah. So, you know, that beginning of the night, it was always something monotone, slow, something to warm everybody up. You know, I'm warming up as they warming up. So I'll play for the people at the bar.

Okay. More than I'm playing for whoever's rallying around the DJ. So you have to be your opening act and your... Yeah, pretty much. Me and another DJ, I would share this with. Right. His name was Mr. Bugs. And he and I, we had a great relationship

because he would play most of the time. He would play the reggae, and I would play the American music. Right. What would make it eventful is when we would switch out. Okay. And they'd be like, oh, Mace is playing. playing reggae tonight. So that would be the performance part

that everybody would be like, wow, these guys are switching out tonight. He's playing reggae and he's playing American music. And then they would call me Yankee Bear and all kinds of Jamaican dudes. Okay. Give you all these titles. Yankee bear.

Yankee bear. Bumbleclad. Yankee Bell. So what if right now, what is for you, the bulletproof will never fail opening song for you. The bulletproof opening song, I can't even say that, man. I don't even...

See, for me, murder she wrote, will never die. Okay. If I don't know, and especially now where it's like different generations and I don't know who I'm entertaining, I could be entertaining a bunch of rich cats. I could be entertaining around the way people, kids today, people that know who the roots are, whatever. murder she wrote at least buys me five minutes to figure out well for one thing it's like

I assume you subscribe by the theory that women rule the dance floor like if they're dancing to it then you know it's good yeah that song for me will forever work and then that'll buy me enough time to figure out where I go what is a has never failed me once never failed me never failed me Like, I gotta wake this party up. Never failed me. Galaxy. By war? By war.

Has never failed me. Whether I started the party with it or I mixed it in. It's just the way it even starts off with the... Are you playing the intro and everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm playing it from the beginning. If I'm playing like the beginning of a party, I can play it from the intro. If I'm mixing it in, then it's, you know, it's definitely a buildup,

but that's the record that never failed me. That never failed me. And what's the name never failed me either? Hijack, the Herbie Man version. Really? Yeah. It's so weird. Like, well, of course, what the Beat Nuts did to it will elicit excitement.

Oh, you're right. They used the other version. The one I played was more disco for me. And you like that? Brooklyn was a, I can't even lie. Like Brooklyn was a lot more disco than other boroughs. You know something? All right, so we just did a show together at the Hollywood Bowl,

and you made me realize something. I have never, ever, like this is a weird admission to make as a DJ. I have never ever played bra by Samande in my sets. And I didn't realize how fun it was. until we started doing or change and speak, right? Uh-huh. And when we played it,

I was sitting on the set like, wait a minute, this is a bona fide classic, and I know it's a classic. How come I never once in my life ever play bra by Samande? And the way that you incorporated the original and,

like to bring it full circle with playing the sample and the version you did on 3FI and Rising. It literally made me, I remember having a note to myself actually saying, Abrah. Like inside my notes.

So for you, like, do you still like playing the traditional ingredients of what classic hip-a-baba is? Do you still like playing breaks? Or are you, like, what is your... I like playing everything. I like everything that really just feels good, sounds good. Of course, the breaks are in there because it's what we grew up on, you know. I incorporate what really just feels good.

bro. And the more I learn, the more I incorporate, the more left I think I can go. I'll go so far left that I'm right. Clock's always right twice a day. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. And a lot of that stems from growing up in the New York area with it being so much competition that I didn't want to be a part of the competition.

There was nights I even played, you know, the building and palladium. And, you know, the hot guys, of course, is. Capri, Red at the time, Clark Kent, and also promoters had this thing too where if you played on the bill with these guys, you kind of almost had to play the same records too. And because it was an audience that come in, rotating throughout the night, that might have missed Capri when he played before I let go. So they want you to play it again. I did get out of that. And I started to play more boutique stuff, I felt. I was going to say, have you ever felt the pressure to be as eclectic as your canon catalog is?

Like, after Blume Mind State came out, and once I discovered, and again, this is the post-DJ. Muro effect, like, when he came from Japan and started playing all this, like, rare shit, never once did it occur to me, like, Oh, I should play evil vibrations before I play a roller skating jamming on Saturdays. I should play the tramp break before I play Let Me, whatever, like that whole idea back and forth. But, and then I went all the way silly with it. Like, I used to always play the peace part break. You know what I mean? Like, did you ever feel like the pressure that people might have expectations for you to be as eclectic as the idea of what

Dale I soul was to your audience in the first few years? I never felt that pressure. I actually realized I was already there. And what made me realize I was already there, there was one tour I did with Mike G. Okay. From the Jungle Brothers. We did a DJ tour together.

Okay. Sammy B. wasn't well, and Mike was like, Mace, let's do this DJ run, you know? Okay. And that's when they were doing Jungle Brothers sound system. and this was my first DJ tour out the country because I really, when it came down to DJ

and I actually stayed local. I didn't go out on tour until I went with the group, so to speak. So it was Mike G. who actually talked me into traveling abroad, just playing music. And when we got out there, I saw Merto, I saw everybody, I realized I was that.

I was already there. I was like, this is what I know. need to be doing. This is what I am. And it actually reminded me of a night that I played at Irvin Plaza, because I used to play there a lot in the very beginning of our career, like on the plug-tuning days, plug-tuning pothed days. I was playing at Irvin Plaza. And I used to play really off the chess. I never planned any mixes. And it was one night, it was a lot of times I'm plan to even figure out what I want to use. It was like a lot of that, too.

Kind of always in the creative space of what I want. And Urban Plaza was one of them eclectic spots. It was. So I'll never forget. That's how I end up coming up with the idea for the remix of me, myself, and I. It's when I played... GQ? I played GQ really slow.

Oh, okay. I played it real slow. And Chuck came up to me. I would never forget that. And Chuck D came up to me. He was like, yo, yo, I've been hearing this fucking my whole life and why does it sound so crazy? So it was, I don't forget that moment.

Chuck coming up to me, and the next thing you know, it just started to click with me, myself, and I, and figuring out what to do for as a remix for that. At the height of your... to DJ Kraft. Now, you brought up Capri, and my first time I gig with Capri, he arrives with 13 crates. Yeah. 13. Yeah, yeah. I witnessed the days of it being 22 or 30 crates. I remember them days, yeah. At the height of it, like, thank God for Serrano, where you can now have like entire terabytes inside your computer. But at the height, how many crates were you?

For a gig you cared about? I was around the same. Around the same. You were a 13er? Yeah, I was around the same. How many people? I actually used to drive to a lot of my gigs because I felt like I needed to bring all my crates.

Because you just didn't know... I didn't know what we're going to get into, what kind of audience it was going to be. I didn't want to not have anything. And you can have all of that and still not have something, you know? I can't even imagine that now. Have you been attracted to the lure of returning to 45? I've done it too.

I've caught the 45 bugs. Is it really needed? I caught it. Is it needed? I caught it a long time ago. No, it's not needed. But if you catch the bug, it's kind of fun. It's just, it's fun just still trying to meet the timing of everything.

And the balancing of the needle, like, we grew up on that, you know? And the imperfections of it, you know, I even realize the audience likes that. They're like, the record just skipped. Okay. I just discovered three weeks ago, someone put me onto a YouTube account in which this guy literally has a collection of all live hip hop. And I mean the early days. And this is post-cold crust, like the era of us collecting tapes. I'm talking about the Grandmaster Flash and Furious Five show once they're an established group type show.

what 20 Minutes Doug and Rick had, all the Def Jam shows, like LL, Public Enemy. I didn't realize how much the occurrence of a skipping record was back then. And, you know, I'm iffy on playing other drum sets, not my own. So usually I'll bring, like, my snare

or something that's familiar that I know my sound and all that stuff. But for the most part, if you are just blindly going to, a club for you guys to perform and you're on with seconds left of knowing how to balance your turntables like how much anxiety was

it just dealing with the whole idea of like in the second verse there might be a skip there so I gotta catch it and or any of those because even have you ever watch Run the MC? He asked how much anxiety. Have you ever watched? You know how much weed I smoke.

Have you ever seen RunDMC's live A performance? Yes. they're doing, I don't know if they're doing a sucker or whatever, but it just skips every and eventually Jay just has to catch it. Yep. In a way so that it stays on beat.

And it's almost like it's, the world doesn't know what genius that is. But for you, like, what basic anxiety things did you have to worry about as a DJ? Because you're also like playing breaks and... In the beginning, it was the soft spots in the stage and we had dancers and all. all that. Right.

So my anxiety would be somebody walking a certain part of the stage and it skips the record, which ruins the whole performance. So I used to do sound check where I would mark- People jumping. Yeah, I would actually play the record and jump around the different parts of the stage to see where it would skip the worse. And then I mark it, put X's down and let everybody know, look, this is where the record It skips over here, skips over here.

If you actually see the performance we do at Tramps, I watched it this morning. You will notice that is what's happening. You'll notice when they're doing the most energetic stuff, they're at the front of the stage or at the corner of the stage. So they know the hot spots. They all knew the hot spots. They knew the fly to this end.

They knew to fly to that in. But don't come over here. Oh, you're going to ruin everything. Okay, so I'm the question to ask you. And if you see my face, I'm like, this is what I'm going to ask you. Have you ever been in this situation where Black Sheep has been a guest on the show

and you know Engine Engine Number Nine's going to come and you're not using replay? Like, just died of- I used to warn Dres. I would warn, you know, it was a pet peeve of mine. Especially when we had this nightmare of a show at Beacon Theater. It was since that show we had at, At the Beacon Theater, all of that was a pet peeve to me.

It was a most destructive show ever, the worst write-up in our lives. What year was this? 89. We was on the bill with Slick Rick. It was us, Slick Rick. I forgot who are. Yeah, it was us, I'm a Slick Rick. Okay.

Yeah, this was Slick Rick's days of the ruler. Oh, damn. Yeah. The great adventures of the fucking ruler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was the ruler. But yeah, it was a nightmare. The dancers were bumping into each other, skipped the record.

Dave was forgetting his rhymes. We had props on stage. This was around the era of having really nice props, because you know when L.L. used to come out in the Lamborghini and all that. So I'll come out in a baby carriage. What? Dave's riding his bike or something, you know.

And we had these balloons, and the balloons were supposed to have peace signs on them. management messed up and they had Mercedes-Benz sign. She was, let I tell you, destructive? Bad as I wanted to forget that night. Oh, wait a minute. As it is on my brain like an elephant.

This is the greatest laugh I've ever had on this show. Mercedes-Bin sign, all the balloons, supposedly peace sign. Oh, God. Manish been had, he's like, Look, the piece I'm like, me that's Mercedes-Benz! It's crazy. It's crazy.

Oh, my God. But from that day forward, like, that's when I had peeped of, like, the sound, the parts of the stage, all of that. Like, soundtrack is very important to me. Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus. From $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com. and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

When did you give into an instant replay? I gave into the instant replay. Were you reluctant to do this? I was. Or you felt it was necessary just for... It was necessary for... So the show can resonate accordingly, sound-wise. Because...

I was going to say Biddy sounded awesome. You know what? Tramps, I'm standing to the right of that camera. I watched that entire show in the sound booth next to the camera dude. Like, I'm literally, that was, well, that was the third dayla show. I saw the New Year's show at the Palladium. Okay.

It was like tribe, Dalai, souls and mischief. Yeah, that was a good night. Like when right before Dead came out, you guys came to Philly at the Tracadero. But, yeah, I was there that night. And that was also the first time I saw most, which I don't think the world knows that you're instrumental in sort of bringing him to. Oh, yeah. Word. I forgot I was instrumental.

What was it about Dante, Yassine? What was it about him that told you, like, oh, this is going to be a great fit for us? Well, I heard Dante before I met him. And, you know, this was a time period still where you can hear artists and not know what they look like. And our mutual friend was our dancer, Asia. We called her Asia Demas. Right. And she knew Dante.

I found out that he was, when he first started to do the poetry readings, pre-dead poetry jam. Right. I was DJing those poetry readings. Okay. Like New Yuriken Cafe and all these things. The museum that they had at his mother's basement and something they had in Brooklyn. Okay. Yeah, I used to do that.

Mums used to be there, rest of the soul. Yeah, moms. I would do those events for him, bringing the equipment and everything. Most used to do this poem called Peter Pan African. And that was like my favorite poem of his. Peter Pan, African, Peter Pan. You got to ask him to do that one. It's a dope poem.

So dope. And I was just fascinated with his artistry altogether. He's charismatic on stage. He's very charismatic. I didn't know he rhymed until we got outside and all the fellas was having a little cipher. And I was like, yo, he was. Nice. Ciphers.

Yeah, I'm like, yo, this dude is super nice. Like, he's multi-talented. He was freestyling and singing and all of that. Right. And then there wasn't a tone I had been following this group. I heard this record.

I knew, I think Diamond D. had produced original. And one day, that shit came on. Now, I mind you, I'm hanging out with this dude. Mm-hmm. Then that shit came on video music box. And I was like, yo! Right.

And mind you, but prior to that, when I met most, I was like, oh, Cosby Mysteries. Right. When I met him, I was like, oh, Cosby Mysteries. But then when I saw that, I was like, as soon as I saw that, I called him, I was like, yo, man, why you ain't tell me? Like, and he was like, yo, man, you know. He was like, you know, I didn't want to be that guy. I'm like, nah, you are that guy. I need to know this guy.

You know what I'm saying? This confirms for me one of the biggest questions I ever had. All right, I don't know if I should put this story all the way out there, but I will just say this much. Most was dating someone that did not know that he was not only an extra, like a main part of Michael Jackson's ghosts. If you remember Michael Jackson in 1997, when Blood on the Dance Floor came out, really try to, you know, do the lightning in a body. twice thing. Like, I got an outdo thriller. So he made another 16-minute scary film

called Ghost and whatnot. And Moose is like one of two black people. It's like a town of an old man that scares. It was like a Tales from the Crip type thing. And we're watching it. And I was like, oh, damn, they're good most. And she's like, well, no, that's not him. I said, clearly, and you hear his voice,

like, you told him in Brooklyn. Like that Brooklyn Oprah thing. And he has dialogue in this thing. And she calls him is like, yo, like, why don't you tell me you're in the new Michael Jackson video? And he was like, that's not me. And I'm like, it is him. Like we can clearly, we're all an electric lady watching this thing. And it just escalated there almost into an argument.

And I'm like, why does he always deny when he does these like mind-blowing things? but I also think that's part of the lure. Like he doesn't want to appear to be... I do remember in the beginning, he was even saying he was like he was keeping the acting, like kind of monotone. Search and state. Yeah.

And he was also turning down really huge projects because he's so in love with this hip-hop thing. He's world famous for that. Yes. And I think he did the best job at, Not crossing the two. Balancing the two. Yeah.

Where... Because he could have easily went the Will Smith route and just been... But then we... I don't think we would get the records we got. Right. We wouldn't got the artistry we got from him.

He's true artist. I think most of our constituents, comrades that have lean that went the acting route, the music either vanished or they started to making a certain thing to cater to a movie audience. Once they're trapped into the... Yeah, I got it.

Question, I didn't ask you. Give me your version of the origins of how De LaSoul got formed. At what point are you meeting Paul and Dave and Kelvin Mercer? I met Paz, Dave, and Charlie. We should be a fourth member. What about that? Yeah, before we even had a name. I met Paz and Dave do a guy named Charlie.

We called him Charlie Rock. I met them in summer school, to be exact. Okay. We all were in English and math together in summer school. Okay. Of 85. And somehow we clicked in school. I'd also love the smartest group I know was all of us.

All of you were in summer school? All of us was in summer school? All of us. All of us. Oh, man. Summer school. Damn. We clicked.

And I actually lived right across the street from the school. So as our relationship developed in class, next thing you know, we started to end up at somebody's house. You know, more than likely we would end up at my house or Chuck's house, you know. And then things just start to grow. Like we, you know, some about this connection just kept bringing these odd four people together, you know. I'm still new in the neighborhood. So I'm just still relatively making new friends.

Like anybody I'm kind of thinking I got a certain kind of connection with, I'm developing. So we were, I'm just meeting still new friends at this time. And it was definitely over the music. Somehow we ended up at Chuck's house. Then we started ending up at my house. Let me make a long story short. Chuck was getting into things that nobody else was into. and, you know, he pretty much exed himself out.

You know, I'll never forget the big argument. We all had, it was almost like a breakup to make up because we initially broke up. Oh, the group just broke up. We weren't even a group yet, but we knew we had something. Right. All I knew is we knew we had something. The vibe that was coming together

had me going to buy a doctor rhythm drum machine and had me just getting what I can afford to even lend to what we were trying to create here. Paz was buying more records and stuff And we study and rap and more, you know, and when he brought home ultra-magnetic, that was like the light bulb that went off, you know. I was like, okay, yeah, we could do this, you know. And then the frustrations behind meeting the fake MC Shan and a fake BDP and...

Wait, what? What happened? Yeah. I knew Corey Rooney really well. Okay. We grew up with Corey. I actually went to high school with his sister. Okay.

And a lot of us... Producer Cory Rooney, his father, Herb Rooney made synthetic substitution. Like Herb was that guy. Okay. Herb was like, I knew Herb before I knew Corey. You got to meet Herb Rooney? Yeah, Herb was like the guy. Herb was like, I was like almost like a surrogate son to Herb.

What? Corey could tell you that. For real, I used to be over there a lot, seriously. Hell. I don't know. He had that spirit of like he welcomed the kids into his home. You know what I mean? Anybody like, and you know.

Was he aware of what was happening with, His record? At that time, I'm not sure. I don't even know. Like, did you ever play him, like, Ultraman X's first single and be like... No, because even at that time, I didn't know. Oh, you didn't even know? I didn't even know either.

You just organically knew Herb Rooney without knowing synthetic substitution. Nope. I got substitution, but I'm not... You didn't put two or two together? I did not. That is crazy. Not at all. It wasn't until after Herb passed, I put it together.

Damn. For real. Okay. Okay. But we used to be over there a lot. And Corey was the prodigal son. He didn't go to school. He got homeschooled.

He played drums all day. And Corey ran around with an army suit on with a rifle on his back. Corey used to be crazy. Wait. Was he in the Army at least? Nah. Corey used to be crazy over. We used to be scared of Corey.

I came in front. Corey used to be off the hook. I know Corey. And I know Corey Rudy. Actually, Corey is kind of wild. Nah, man. Corey don't play? That's just, yeah, I did not know.

Yeah, shout out to him for doing it. He always been solid, too. Like, you know, I watched him step away from the fam and go do his thing with Prince Marky D and watch him step from that. Right. You know, he even brought me into Soul Convention. I had produced two songs for Mark.

One of them made the album. Word. Yeah, Mark robbed me, though. Okay. I got to address it before he passed. Okay, okay. But I had the Lowell Fulson record. I have that album.

I wrote the chorus to the... I did not know. Really? Yeah, yeah. I wrote the chorus. And I was like, yeah. Mark put my credit under Vincent Mason, not DJ Macyo from De La. It was all like I was part of the Soul Convention family.

But also learned at that time, too, Corey was kind of on his way. out from so convention. Oh, got you. Wait, first of all, we're falling down a rabbit hole. How did you meet the fake MC Shan and the fake BDP? Together?

No. It was different days. Because what was that beef like? It was different days. The fake MC Shan came over Corey's house. So we ended up getting an invite over there to, because Corey knew what we was up to. Right.

You know, Corey also remember me from being in a group called hardcore and a song that I made with them. And he's still to this very day, knows that song. Really? He played, do-da-da-do-do. I want to rock your body. That was the name with his song.

Okay. And he remembers my verse for some reason. I don't even remember my first. But Corey remember that. And then he started to pay attention to what I was doing. And me, Dave and Merce, he knew Dave and Merce. He kind of knew what I knew. Nobody knew they rap.

You know, it was like a closet thing we were doing for a long time. And Charlie lived right around the corner from Corey. So the back and forth was, you know, it was, especially with the invite from Herb. You know, this one day we go over there and this dude claimed to be Shan. And I'm like, it was all suspect to me because I'm like, the way the dude taught and what I hear on the records, this don't sound like Shane, but I'm going to ride this out. You know what I'm saying? I don't even know how he got to Herb's crib.

You know, and then here it is. They're from Queens also. Gotcha. So, I don't know, somebody got to Herb and was faking Jacks. Oh, God. And it got to a point in that, even in that day, Corey was like, this ain't no MC Shan, you know what I'm saying? And then the BDP cat was, Charlie's sister was dating somebody from that crew.

Right. And the dude was hanging with BDP. He wasn't down with BDP. So that right there frustrated the hell out of Mursk. I'd never forget that day. Mertz was so frustrated with that shit. And then Charlie used to play around so much too. That was also another thing

when we were really trying to get serious about trying to make some songs and Chuck would play too much. So that was all irk in Mers. And then it came one day put it like this. The day that we actually like, Merce spazzed out,

and he was like, I don't want to do this no more. I'm going home. I'm taking my shit home. I started carrying my equipment back around to my house. Because we ended up bringing my equipment to Chuck's house.

Dudes try to rob my house. And it's clear what they was trying to get because when they broke in my house, you can tell they went to the basement. Mind you, there's a sheepskin here. There's a sheepskin there. There's other joints and all that. They headed to the basement.

So somebody was trying to get my house. equipment, you know. And when my uncle ended up coming home, so they rushed out the window they came in, you know? They weren't successful. No, they weren't. So I ended up getting my equipment and taking it to Chuck's house. So we would be at Chuck's house practicing. Chuck had

the whole downstairs, Chuck, he was the Ricky Schroeder, the crew. He had his house, parents had the big old house. He had the downstairs to himself. Separate interests. He can even have female companies. Silver spoon's reference. You didn't have a train in the living room? No. No. No. He could

You know, like, he could have. Have you seen him since De La started popping off? Actually, I tried to continue my relationship with him by helping him with another group. And I even try to put him down with my cousin, Uptown. Remember Uptown, Doe Want Plastic? That was your cousin? Well, we called each other cousins because we grew up from babies. Dope on plastic.

Yeah. I thought that was MC Shan. Yeah, I know. I know, everyone. I thought that was emcy. I did not know that was your cousin. Oh, damn, okay, okay. We grew up from the same thing.

sandbox. Okay. So I put truck down with him, and he messed that up too. You know, Tommy Boy turned around and was like, we want to sign up time, but we don't know about your man. And I was like, there's another opportunity. He messed up for himself. Sabotizing.

You know, yeah. So I'll never forget POS coming over the house, though. Hey, man, Dave. And it was really odd to me. He was like, yo, man, we see you serious about this. You know, we are just as serious. He's like, we want you. you to be our DJ.

Dave didn't say nothing the whole time. But hindsight, me knowing my brothers to this day, they spoke about this beforehand. Right. You know? I do admire that about you guys. I mean, there would be moments like, Tariq and I are just in this kind of therapy stage of making sure that we're connected. Because every time I be around you guys, none of that, what we hear, like the idea of

de la soul, like, oh, this group. that has this great chemistry, they laugh at each other's jokes, whatever. Like, your laugh to me is one of the most infectious things and one of the most authentic things. This is what you don't know. Oh, God, we're going to fall down serious rabbit holes. All right, I used to teach at NYU. I hate my laugh too, but I can't do shit about it.

No, but here's the thing, though. All right, so back when I used to teach at NYU, Professor Amilliard, a shout out to you. Hello. She once did a study about the history of black music. And she made an observation. So the very first time that a black voice or a black song was released was a song called The Laughing Song by a guy named George Johnson, no relation to the brothers Johnson. And the laughing song was almost like an ironic song, the same way that Stevie Wonder's Village Ghetto Land is done, you know, classical music.

And he's talking about like, he's talking about impoverished conditions, but he's doing in such an ironic way. with like a tuxedo sort of level. Basically saying like, you know, we're still struggling in 1976 with poverty and everything, but yet, you know, the world doesn't care if common man is starving. And so basically, since the days of the reconstruction, black people weren't allowed to ever express emotions, which is why we invented cool,

because you don't know what we feel. You can't be angry, might get dealt with. You can't laugh, you might get dealt. like literally anything to do with emotions you're not allowed to do. And what she did was she conducted a study on every song in black music that contains laughter.

And she's like, her findings were like 96% of those songs. Laughter was always for the most ironic reasons. Like, you know, like when it's like, we back motherfuckers, ha ha ha! Like it's a laugh for evil or if it's a James Brown command, like ha! Or whatever.

But never. even Michael's he he's are always after some depression shit he just did you know want to be starting something's depressing Billy Jean's depressing and there's rare occasions of and we're trying to think of like has anyone ever laughed on record where it was actually genuine like I'm expressing joy and I was like well shit I know the end of a rap de rap show where you hear like macyo and literally so you were like one of a very rare case of a person laughing because something's actually funny and you're expressing, which is, it's a weird study to find that, yeah, it's, no, there's like a three-year study

that she did on just the history of laughing in black music. But for you, like, when you're crafting these records, and I asked POS, like, how are you guys able to make these intricate skits sound so spontaneous and off the cuff? But I know to record stuff, it's like, and go. And it never, feels that way. It always just feels like a tape was always rolling and you guys just, like the night you guys did the 20 minute version skip to my loop. Like, you can't plan that.

Like, what happens? Yo, that right there. That is my favorite shit of all time by the way. And I listen to all 20 minutes of that shit. Like, everybody came over my house. This is the first time I think everybody was at my house. Granny, rest of soul, China Jet.

Right. Dave came Mike, his brother Mike. we were trying to just figure something out. So you put on Christmas record. Put on his record and it just started to skip on beat. And Dave started, skip to my loo, skip to my loom, skip to my loom, skip to my loom. He just kept going. Skip to my loom.

And it just. And it morphed from there. And it was like, we got to skip. We're looking for it. We got it. If you guys can find, what's the mixtape you guys did? It's actually one of my favorite day-law records, but you guys treated it as a mixtape.

It's on that mixtape. Smelt Daisy's talking about. No, no, no. Before the Dillad Daisy thing, you guys did The Impossible Mission. Oh. If you have the Impossible Mission mixtape, it's on YouTube. You can hear the entire 20 minutes. I don't know why you want to,

but it's like one of my favorite moments ever because you guys just be insane. silly. That was a risky thing to do back then. Like, has there ever been a thing? Because I've seen... I got to thank Paul for that. You know, Paul was... Was there ever a discussion like, yo, we can't appear to be too happy go lucky or motherfuckers who will... No. That was never a discussion. It was never even really a thought. It was us being our natural silly selves, but Paul having the idea of recording it. That's it. Like, yo, we need to record all of this.

It's too good. It's just too good. He would sit back like a real producer and just analyze everything and be like, yo, man, no idea here is a bad idea. That's how he operated. We have to try everything. How did you make PlugTune in and the demo? The demo we made with the SK1.

It was a Cassio drum machine and the SK1. And the SK1, we put up to the speaker. to sample the written on the wall sample. Yeah. So that's from the SK1? That's the SK1. The demo, the actual demo. I heard it.

It didn't feel that homemade. Like, someone just had perfect timing to do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who was the person that? We were sharing it. And it was more pause tape vibe, because whatever was off. And also you had to, we had the drum machine to follow.

Because the drum program on the Casio RZ1, yeah. Yeah. The drum pattern was pretty locked solid, so you could follow the pattern. You just get tired, you know what I'm saying? Right. Other than that, that was it.

And we were overdubbing, overdubbing cassettes. I later found out that a lion's share of, it takes an ace of millions, was also made the same way, where they didn't read the manual to the sequence. They literally, like, that's... Triggered. Flavor Flav doing all the 808s and Funky drummer on Rebel Dile to Paws

because he had immaculate timing. So Flavor was- Because Flav played. Yes. Right, right. But he had an aculent timing. So he's the one that looped funky drummer and all that stuff. So just to know that none of that was sequenced and all put together by human is some mind-blowing shit to me.

Did you know straight out the jungle was that album was all DJed? Well, I figured like in a later listen that, oh, this is. is not triggered only because of, you know, I'm also the guy like, if you know Jazzy Jeff, he's taught me the idea of warping stuff and perfecting it, which sounds weird when you start trying to make things perfect sounding when it shouldn't be. So, yeah, I learned the hard way of trying to.

I try to warp Jim Brownski, which is a nightmare. Right, right, right. Right. Wait, I got to talk about style. Now, of course, we're doing this for Levi's. And it's just a coincidence that you guys are also style icons. I mean, as far as like hairstyles and what you guys wore, which was unlike anything that I've ever seen anyone in the craft of hip hop rocking at the time. For me, I had an old Levi's jacket that I got when I, we went to school with boys to men.

So we did this Motown Philly video. I'm like drumming and whatever. And I kept that shit on forever because Tariq's like, you got to wear the jacket every day because we can get girls' numbers. They'll recognize the jacket from the video. Summertime, me rocking this jacket or whatever. Was there ever an article clothing, like, as far as like deciding what the personal style was? I know you guys said like, oh, we go in our parents' cribs and wear their clothes,

but was that really the case or like? No, that really was the case, especially for them two guys. They were in their pops gear. me, I had to go buy stuff. I don't have a pops to go in these things like that. But yeah. What was like your favorite article of clothing or like at least for the early days of De La Sol like that never left you? I mean, for the early days, what was cool about it, it was like the way they were hooking up their pants.

Because I do come from an era of, I'm more into the nostalgic wear, the classic wear, you know, stuff that I always wanted. to wear when I was younger watching my uncles and all of them. And I used to, you know, every now and again, my mom would get me a pair of shark skin's pants, you know what I mean? I used to rock shock skin, yeah. Sharks skin. I was the way for that. There's the split gabardine joints.

Okay. Yeah, I used to rock that, you know. And then, but they used to be pretty bell bottom. And then when I met, Dave and Merce, excuse me, guys, I got to call them David Merck. they would kind of hem their pants, like almost make them straight leg. They would turn the bells into straight. Because I realized their father's pants were damn they're the same. So they would make them straight leg.

Yeah, I'd safety pin them together so they'd be more baggy instead of. Yeah. And so when I saw Dave do that, I copied that. I was like, yeah, that's exactly how I really want my pants to be. I don't want them to be bell bottom because I want you to see my shirt. shoes, I'm rocking too, you know what I mean? So, but I did come from the split gabardines, the shark skin, the mock neck, ice, I used to rock that. That was my thing.

Well, you also mentioned when your house opens got broken into, like, sheepskin. Yeah, yeah. So you were aware of street fashion of the time. Yeah, I was. I was heavily. Because when we heard take it off, we were just like. I was a baby Jammaster Jay, straight up. Okay.

Yeah, I was leather pants and all of that. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. I was relatively dressing like Flash and a Furious 5 and run DMC. Gotcha. How long did it take you to craft Cool Breeze on the Rocks? Now, I was heartbroken because of the new version and, of course, the clearest long.

But I love the way you guys handle it. It was even more hilarious. That was the most hilarious thing. If you could find the original Cool Breeze on Rocks on YouTube, listen to what it was and how mind-blown we were back then. and compared to what they had to do now with it. But how long did that take to craft? That piece made me hate engineering. It made me hate engineering.

Now, now, don't get it twisted. Now, I can engineer my eyes off because I got no choice. Tell me about the punching. It made me hate engineering. Talk about it. Punching? How about splicing tape? Splicing.

And I'm not talking about the splicing we do on Ableton or Pro Tools. I'm talking about tape, actual tape, splicing tape. I hate that. So, wait, in my mind, you're in a studio with a two-inch reel doing this. You're doing this on a cassette? I did it on the half-inch. Okay. I brought in all the records I found.

With the word rock on it. With the word rock in it. How long did it take you do the research? Or did you just automatically know? I thought of different records off top. and I went right to them. And I was just, you know, go through them making sure, you know, what I'm thinking is the correct thing.

And then going down the rabbit hole to find out, all the stuff I wanted to say rock. I knew I always wanted to mess with Cool Breeze from Richard Pryor. I just knew that. So it was like, cool breeze on the rocks, okay? Let's figure this out. You know what I mean? I went down, every record that had rock,

but then it was putting it together. It took two days, man. It took actually two days to do that one little piece. And I recorded all the rocks to the half inch. You know, I cut the cool breeze, chik-d-ch-choo-d-coo-breeze, but all the rocks I spliced. Oh, so wait, it wasn't like you just added on to it. No.

You just, oh, no. Yeah, I just cut cool breeze and then... Why did you do it that way? I didn't know no other way. I just, it was, come on, it was beginnings. the embryonic stages of what we were becoming. And I didn't, Paul didn't know no other way, the engineer didn't know any other way.

It was like, we, he said, recorded to the half inch and then we're gonna splice it all together. But I was on deck learning the splicing, because it was my idea. So I'm working with Al, the engineer, and I swear I hated that shit, marking the tape, trying to get it.

And then sometimes you're cutting over the part where you're trying to have, so now you've got to record it again. I hated that shit, man. I was like, I'm never doing this again. And I says, an engineer, I don't want to be an engineer. I'll be a producer, and I hire the engineer to help me mix this record. You don't even know, like, no, I mean, just...

And it's before automation and all of that. Dude, like, that made such a profound. I know you probably think, like, oh, this is a 30-second sketch, but just our collective minds were... I worked at the Sam Goodies the week that that came out. And when we heard, we all stopped in the thing, like, what the hell is this? Like, we just, I mean, Nace of the Millions was just one thing to take in, like, seven songs coming at you at the same time, out of key or whatever.

But, yeah, when that happened, the entire, like, white people stopped. Like, what is this? Right, right. Yeah, literally, yeah, I was working in Sam Goodies when that record came out. My favorite device in the studio was the Even Die. The even tired hominizer. The harmonizer, it allowed us to, you know, to mesh records together that didn't really work harmonically. You guys did that and I forget the example of it.

Buddy! Buddy was one. Buddy was the example of that. What's the name was an example of it also? Say No Go. Yes. With the baseline. With the baseline.

Also along with the Sline the Family Stone record. Those records don't work together. You guys were the first to match your samples so that is together. Can I ask something? For three feet, was Bob involved then, or did he come full-time during Dayla's Soul is Dead? Bob Howard. It came more during Daylai Solis Dead.

Okay. In the beginning, it was Bob Coulter, who actually was one of the partners of Calliope Studio. It was Sue Fisher, Laelite, God rest of the soul. I forgot, Shane Faber. Shane? Okay. You guys were also one of the first rap groups that I noticed that didn't rhyme over their album versions.

L.O. were rhyme over his record. Rock him were rhyme over his record. Slick Rick, too. Was that a purpose, like, in the closest that I did see emcees rhyming to their instrumentals, you know, like, Molly Mallway always have a dub on the B-side. You love to hear the story, the story, the story. Way back when, when?

Like, they would do. And I think that was so, man, you know where you are. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you guys were, the first thing I noticed was like, whoa, these are all instrumentals. Like, because Dev Jam didn't even start making instrumentals until 87. So were you guys, like, already aware

that an instrumentals should be on the B-side, or was that a Tommy Boyd decision? It was stuff we learned from state. Okay. You know, I can't front. Stetsasonic was a huge template for a lot of things we've became, you know. If you ever saw a Stetser Sonic live show, it was one of the most incredible shows you can see. I have a wish in life.

There is not, I mean, the closest that you get to classic Stett in their glory, it was some talk show where I think L.O. was there to really promote Walking with the Panther. And I asked this with Chuck. like this is the era of at least like the first generation of video cameras, not one person in that circle doing those tours decided to record one

Stets of Sonic show. All I will know is the folklore of the craziest group. And for me to be the sort of the back end of that and having never ever seen like I can't imagine a person not

seeing a root show once at least before they say, oh they're the greatest group. Like, I would love to say that myself, but there's no record whatsoever of their performance. Like, does Paul have anything? Does he? I'll ask him. It's even harder to find you guys. Because here's the deal.

If anybody would have picked up the camera back then, would have been Paul. But if he's in the show, well. He can't do. Right. So maybe New Kirk, rest of his soul, might have recorded it. Maybe somebody around Paul might have. I'm going to ask him now. I was going to say one of the, one of the, one of the,

greatest things that I got to see kind of been reflecting on Dave's life was the footage of you guys recording the De La Sol's Dead album, which I mean, any of those things that's like gold to me now. Like how do you recall like cameras being

rolled off in doing like at least the first three records when video cameras were? I was never really conscious of the camera being on. You know? You've seen this footage, right? I've seen, I saw the footage of Dave doing Johnny's dead. Yes. Yes. To see that in real time,

man. A.K. Vincent Mason. Yeah, right. What is the basis of it? He just having to be in a piano. In a studio at the piano, acting a freaking fool. And it's one of them days where I call, homework was done. You know, Paul would give us homework. So, homework was done. So we had time in the studio just to do whatever. That's how the skits would even come to life. Because once we took care of what was for homework. The song, right. Yeah, and then we got more time to just

either come up with a new song or just mess around, you know? Always wanted to know this question. So, I mean, for us, being as though instruments are a big part of what makes a Roots album, that stuff was part of the budget. Hey, I want to get an extra microphone

for this particular sound. I want to buy these symbols or whatever. Was record shopping and digging part of the record budget or was that just like... Nah, that was naturally part of our lives. You own it and... I couldn't wait to go on tour so I could hit every city...

Go dig. And go digging. I couldn't wait. Especially going overseas. It was one time my... I went to some store and I damn they bought half the store. And I got two tickets to a Prince concert

behind that. Really? When Prince came out with Batman. Oh, shit. I was in this record shop and I just like... This record shop had almost everything I, my heart desired.

You know, first of all, the turntable was in there. So you could play everything you was checking for. And I was just, I had a day. It was a go rush day. Really? And I damn there bought half the store. And the dude was like, very typical.

He kept it open for me. You know, I was in there after hours. And he was like, yo, just because you bought so many, I got two tickets tonight for Prince at Wembley. I'm saying, stop playing. He was like, for real he said I want to give you these two tickets and me and my at the time my security at the time we went to the concert I was crazy I lost my voice everything now it was the best it was the best wait I would say probably my era like starting in 95 once

record dealers became aware that oh I can sell him this gulp mcdermit record for 50 bucks I could sell him you know this Yeah, the markups on us because they see us coming. So you were there for a magic period where people really didn't know the value of stuff and you could get something for a dollar or $5 a way. A quarter, even a quarter. What was the wild, wild gold rush days of record conventions like when I'm hearing these stories of like hotels being. Oh, man.

Like, were you ever part of that madness? I was for a second. And then I started to notice the competitive behavior in there. This is where I hear. not stop going. The first time I'm hearing blah blah's an asshole or blah, blah, blah, like, you found out who cats really were during this period. And the one thing I always heard, though, was like Prince B was such a nice figure, Prince

B from PM Dawn, was that dealers will always let him come in, like, at one in the morning, like eight hours before you guys even get a chance to get to it. Either he paid him extra money or was this extra nice to him or whatever. And then, like, come 9 a.m. when it's time. to let everyone else in. Capri used to be there night before. Really? He'd be your book of room in a hotel.

Smart. Smart. Smart. And catch them while they're setting up. Really? Yeah. Let me see that. So, I mean, at its height, like, was it really just like the search for gold,

the search for the perfect break, not knowing what so on this or that, like, would you roll by yourself or would you guys roll as a group? I would go by myself. In the beginning, we would rally up and go together. You know, it would be kind of part of our day when we met up at the studio or something like that, you know? But then, yeah, after a while, I start going by myself. I start even traveling different places just alone. Got you.

Just so I can focus. Okay. And don't feel that pressure. The pressure. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, I've heard enough folklore behind you being responsible for me and myself and I, all the way that we hate the song to, I guess, okay, we like the song again.

Now it's a legacy song. From Soup to Nuts, what is your version of me, myself, and I? And also the three-sided 12-inch idea. Okay, let's start with the three-sided thing. With the double groove. I'm going to give credit to Tom Silverman for that. Okay. I got to give it to him for that.

You know, I will always say after whatever we decided to do business-wise, you know, whether we liked it or not, whatever we decided. After that, creatively working with him, it was always pretty fun. Okay. You know? So that double groove idea,

I thought it wasn't, I wish I thought of that. You know what I mean? I was like, that's... Well, we do give you guys credit for it, but I get it. I get it.

You know what I'm saying? Like, why didn't come to me like that? You know, yeah. But thumbs up to him for that, you know? I had sat on that sample, but I sat on that and more bounce three ounce for a long time.

and more bounce broke my heart when EPMD came along. Right. Because it was just a matter of a time, especially when it's a dope loop. You know what I mean? When it's in the ether, it's like somebody going to get to this. It's out there.

I grabbed it, somebody else grabbed it. It's all about who's going to put it out now, you know? And sure enough, they did an incredible job. I thought they, you know, I wouldn't expect anything less. And then I sat on a knee-deep record, and I played with that. for a while and they hated it. I'm shocked that people didn't catch on in the, like, 89 for Kneed Deep to finally make

his debut in hip-hop terms, that would have been super captain. That, to me, would have been more obvious than anything James Brown did. But were you shocked that, oh, my God, not one person has bothered to go here yet to use? I was shocked. Like, put it like the, I felt like Eric Sermon was on my heels. I did feel that. Okay. You know?

Right. I was like, he's a fuck low. He knows. I knew Paul was on to it. All right. Because we both was funkadelic fans. Right. You know?

I gave Paul, not even knowing. I gave Paul the Maggot Brain album with the joint we used for Millie. Yes. Okay. I didn't know that was on there like that. I gave it to Paul. I was like, do your homework. Yeah.

That was a bunch of rock stuff. Yeah. You take it ahead, bro. And so enough. Damn. I'm like, Lisa's for us. I like, I don't care. Lise was for us.

Okay. And, yeah, the knee-deep joint sat on it for so long. I even tried it with another artist, and he didn't like it. Was it too fast or just... I guess it was, yeah, it wasn't. This was around the era, too. It was getting more up-tempo with things, and they're becoming more dance music amongst hip-hop, you know?

So Dave and Mersh wasn't in it with me like that. They just was not there with me, you know? And I was like, shit, man. I was like, yeah, we need to... use this shit. I didn't know how to convince them in any way until we was at Tommy Boy. And they were fine with Hall of Notes and Steely Dan, but this was like too Captain Obvious for them. Well, haul and note, I did. That was Possible's idea. Okay. You know, and I could see, you know,

conceptually, lyrically, I can understand those songs coming to life the way they did. You know what I mean? Especially for what he had in mind, the anti-drug song. Right. Song about the girl. You know what I mean? Like, this is one. when L.L. was, I need love. Kane was with smooth, operative. We need a girl song. You know what I mean? You saw this as, oh, we need a song that the girls can get down to.

That's what I saw him trying to do. Like, we need a, as you evaluate in the records that's coming out around you, these are the templates we're going off of. You know, like, listening to L.L.'s album, listen to P.E.'s album. Listen to P.E.'s album. Listen to this one's album. Listen to Kaine's album. Listening to Slick Rick's new album, you know, because Slick Rick album was like, We needed to record two more songs when we heard The Greatest Adventures of Slick Rick.

Paz told me that. Oh, he came with a living in a full-time era behind that trip. That trip we took a trip. We had some shows with 45 King and Lockham Shabazz, and we was in a limo. Limo. In a limousine. I know. I know.

Wow. Listening to the greatest adventures of Slick Rick. And we was like, yo. We got to come with it. We was like, okay, already out the gate, we was like, okay, this album ain't going to. You ready to scrap the record? We was like, our album isn't going to not going to do well. We was already like, we're just thankful for the opportunity of making an album.

You know what I'm saying? Also, when the label's also telling you, we really think we got a great record here, but we only sell it. We only think it's going to sell like 50,000 units. We're being told these things. So I'm really thinking about going to the military and all that, all the things that was on my list before that album deal came on. I was pretty much put in your occupation.

I was about to put it. It was all back on my list. Like, okay, after this album, I'm probably going to the military or into the workforce something because I don't see this music thing really being successful for us. You know, I swear to you. Know where you at when you just got two singles out and, you know, you're just happy, you know?

And I'm just happy like, yeah, we embarking upon this thing called sampling and we got people who's supposed to pay for clearing the samples. So we're thinking we get permission to do all these things we're actually doing. So the body of work and the opportunity, like, every day was happy to be in the moment. Right. You know, when is it going to end? That was the question. At what point do you realize that you caught lightning in a bottle?

Like, oh, shit. Not only is this going to work, but this will be as impactful as Raising Hell. After the marketing meeting, at least with me, myself or not. After the marketing meeting that we had at Tommy Boy, and they were like, we feel like this is a great record. The feedback that we're getting back is phenomenal. But what's going on out there, we don't know if this is going to do well. So we're guessing around 50,000 units.

We also have, you guys got great records, you know, the music that you chose to sample, you know. It was definitely white oriented, you know. So it was also like, we don't really have anything we can go to Black Radio with. Remember, black radio was a thing then. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, and I never forget, Ed Strickland. Remember, Ed?

Yeah. Being one of the main people feeling like there was nothing quite there yet to go to Black Radio with. And what ended up coming up? was me, myself and I, and also the remix for Buddy. Those was the two records that landed it for Black Radio. How I ended up, me, myself, and I ended up being the record that we finally decided to say, well, Paul called me up and was like, yo, may I should bring that to the studio? It was when, I want to say it was the same day, that evening,

we went to a Zulu Nation party at Hotel Amazon. And I don't know if it was Bam or Jackson. who was DJ, and one of them was on at the time, and they dropped knee deep. They dropped knee deep. He saw it work. It went crazy in there, and I hit Dave. I'm like, I'm telling you, this is it. This is it right here.

This is the one. And he was looking at me like, like, gave me that look like, I think he's right, but I don't want to do this, you know? Dave was always the hardest one to convince. Always hardest one to convince. Sure enough, I don't know what made them. They must all have a discussion with Paul. And then Paul Corbyn was like, let's bring that to the studio.

Cool. Bring that drum to the studio. And then when I brought it to the studio, I just had it a basic loop with the drum tap running a little bit more than what you hear on the record. Some drum programming behind it. Then Paul came with the Rapper Dapper dapper.

The Dougie Fresh Cuts. Gotcha. He had the idea of running the loop, running the loop from the tape into the DJ mixer back onto the tape. to the tape so we could transform all the... Oh, because at the end, you go crazy on it.

Oh, got it. Okay, yeah, yeah. And the Dougie first cuts, we were going back and forth with that. Boom, so it was me and Paul going back and forth, like, on some DJ shit in the studio, developing the track. These two dudes sitting in the back, and you can see the look on their face, like, this shit is coming out good. Like, oh, shit, like, it's working. Oh, my God. And then all I can remember is these two guys spoofing, black is black by the Jungle Brothers.

And it was just, they were just in the memory of the cut. They was back there bugging out. And the more and more it got clownish. It backfired. It backfired. And worked. And I think that was also the revelation of the humor in what we do is going to work. Got you.

You know. Okay. I got to ask this question. And maybe this is me bridging to De La Sol is Dead and kind of be, even though steeped in humor, it did come a little defensive. But

you know, for the record, De La Solis Day is my all-time favorite record. Not even in your canon, but just that's what me and Me Tariq want to start a group when we heard this. But can you give me what is your average memory of the Nitro Tour with LL, NWA, Public Enemy,

you guys? My average memory. Yes. I don't think anything was average about that. What was it like? Oh, man, it was, uh, whew. Hoo. Okay.

I'm trying to see where I could go with this without, uh. You're right, right, right. Okay. Let me ask, this is yes or no question. Okay, so one of the main positions on Dayla Sol is dead is like, yo, cats are trying to test us. And again, to hear you guys were getting into scuffles in various cities based on people thinking that you're a certain way or whatever, or soft or whatever the thing was in 89, 90. Yeah, I mean. The irony that it's coming from you guys who in our heads were like, wait, this day I saw this is the last group we expect.

This was also a time period. We were still young and fresh on the scene. So being backstage and all of that wasn't all of that important to us. We enjoyed being around the people, but not realizing the danger. So you all would go out in the audience? We would be out in the audience, man. We would be hanging out like if we was hanging out at club malls or something like that. Oh, God.

Or Irvin Plaza, you know, like if we was just hanging out in the city. You know, and the way the tour was, it was like we all had camaraderie. You know, it was a real brotherhood out there, you know. Like, LLs and his pops, they all looked after us, you know. Right. Kane's crew, like, you know, and this was also, although the tour was marketed as LL, De La Slick, Rick, Kane, it was NWA on that tour, too short. Every now and again, special ed, EPMD, P.E.

it was hip-hop from east to west all over this tour. Yo-yo was on the tour, like just a little bit of everybody. Every city had something body different or, you know, a string of dates. They were on ghetto boys every now and again. So it was like just a lot of love, man. Is it true that you guys were there for the infamous Detroit night with NW? Actually, what you see in the movie happened on that tour. And really how it went,

Wren dedicated the song to PASS. It was PAS's birthday. He dedicated the song to POS, and then Kube went into it, you know? And it all was maybe about less than 60 seconds. The hoopla jumped off, yeah. The police throwing M80s. I mean, obviously we all thought it was gunshots,

but it was police who lit M80s, threw them to the stage as they went off. Of course, it sounded like gunshot, you know. So that created the chaos. You know, it was a big thing because of the police around the country had an issue with them. Right. FBI had an issue with them. So the actual officers on the scene really didn't have an issue.

They were just following the job. Right. Because when they finally got to them, they asked them for autographs. When Easy came back to the hotel, he was like, oh, man, they just wanted our autograph. And they just seem embarrassed because of the song. Right. It's just, they just feel embarrassed. Like, as a DJ, I hate speaking on the mic.

I'm still on the, is this thing on? Your phone's here in the DJ booth and whatever. But, like, how did you learn to do something with authority but actually make it fun and not, is it just years and years of communicating or? Yeah, I think it's years of communicating, in years of watching and remaining a student to this and watching the highs and those. And also having that feeling of knowing that there's somebody out there who may have never, ever seen us before.

You know, I guess also watching, paying attention to the barometer of the business of De Laosso and knowing when you're hot, knowing when you're not. You know what I mean? And knowing that every time you get up there, you're introducing yourself to somebody who may have never encountered you before. And I think a lot of that comes from also the early days of being on these festivals that are so alternative, especially I think when we did the fine young cannibal's tour, we were like a fish out of water with that, you know,

and we got booed pretty bad. And to whom we did, me, myself or not. It was like... Damn, I would have thought that would have been in easy reach. Until we did that song is when we got the love. But throughout our performance,

it was a struggle with like... And you had to learn... Had to learn how to figure out what songs work for what audience, what territories, you know, start really thinking like a DJ. You know what I'm saying? And connecting with what's going to work,

what's not going to work. Implementing more crowd participation. Okay, for somebody who don't know us, we could still have a good time. Let's try to get them involved. Right. So that's where a lot of the crowd participation come in, because you'll find people going,

I don't ever heard or saw you guys before, but I had a great time. And that's only because they were involved. So to go from finding out of cannibals to now you guys have been doing a lot of rotation with the gorillas. Yeah. Well, first of all, I didn't even properly introduce you.

You're a Grammy Award winning. Vincent Mason. So could you talk about working with the guerrillas And even touring with them and how that, because just by looking at the footage of what I see, like, Nightly, when you guys do gigs with them, you know, do you just talk about, like, the whole collaboration of Feel Good. I think by time we got to the guerrillas, we were already well-groomed. You know what I mean? It was, for me, before even the group even heard them, it was something I wanted to do. Like, and I was already fascinated with them when Dell worked with them.

Right. I was like, oh, man, when Dell worked with him, I went even thinking about working with them. I just really wanted the record. I was like, yo, this record, it's crazy. I got to have this. It was one of them. Right.

I wanted it under my belt. Here it is. I felt like I play this record. They going to want this for Macyo if I play that record, you know? They might not want it from Capri, but they're going to want it from me. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. And I was in love with it.

And then chasing it around for about a good year under the assumption that Danny Automator was the guerrillas. Come to find out he wasn't, he's just a producer of that song. Right, right. But I more and more, I got closer to it. I forgot who I met. Damon? I met Matt, a cat named Matt.

And then Matt ended up having a conversation with Remy. Remy is Damon's best friend. Okay. As I hear the story from the other side, Remy was the one going, Damon. You need to mess with Dela. You need to mess with Dela. Dell is like the son of Dayline.

Right, exactly. Because I thought the same thing. He's like, yo, you need to do this. But I could see Dell's intro was Dan. You know what I'm saying? I could see Damon probably know much about Dan, Dell either. Right. But Dan being on deck, you know, especially after doing, you know,

handsome boy modeling school, that's all in Damon's lane. Right. You know what I'm saying? The quirky projects, that's in his lane. So I could see how their relationships. developed and Del got a part of that. But as I was fighting just to get the records,

it landed up on his ears like, yo, you need to mess with Dayla. And then we got a call to come be a part of this project. And it was supposed to be a completely another song altogether. How did it come together? Because actually, your laughter and all that stuff, like, that's the most memorable part of it. Like, how

did that come to be? It was a different track altogether. I think the track now, the track we were supposed to do is now titled Kids with guns. When we were working on the track, it was like, no one was really feeling it. You know what I mean?

We were just kind of doing the job. It became one of the moments that I didn't like about us, you know? Let's not do this for the money. You know what I mean? Like, okay, there's money on the table, but if it ain't really clicking, let's not do this.

Right. You know what I mean? And somewhere in the session, Damon just stopped the session. He was like, yo, honestly, See, what do y'all think about this song? I said, yo, man, I think we're forcing something here. I said, I don't think it's a real collaboration.

I think we're just featuring on something here. Right. You know? And you can phone it in. I said, no one's really putting the spirit into this that I know. You know, we can put into this. I said, me, personally, I think the song is, I think the track is cool the way it is.

I don't think we need to do anything to it. I don't even hear these guys on this track. Merce already had something for it. So it did frustrate him. You know what I'm saying? Merce had something for it already. Right, right. I'm saying, but I'm being honest.

I don't even think I hear my crew on this track. And then Dave was like, yo, won't you play us everything you got you intend to put on the album? Right. You know, just play us for everything you, you know, you record it that you think you're going to make the album. Then you start playing stuff. And Merce was frustrated because Merce had his, you know,

he had his tunnel vision for what was going on. And I knew that too, but I informed everybody. I was like, yo, man, let me know what it really is before I get on this plane. I said, because I know I'm easy to upset the apricot, you know what I'm saying? If I ain't feeling it, I ain't feeling it. Right. I'm going to speak my mind, you know, right wrong and different. I'm going to speak my mind and we go and go with it from there.

So as I spoke my mind, things start to shift. Merce was slightly frustrated. then Damon started playing stuff. Next thing you know, tequila's coming out. Weed's coming out. He's spending like a good nine hours in the studio, listening to stuff and kind of waiting for the inspiration and all of these, this tension that's settled.

Once the tension's settled, Damon got around to the Feel Good Inc track, right? And next thing you know, this is one of the days Dave decides to smoke weed. doesn't normally smoke weed. Okay. I always call Dave a holiday smoker, but he's the only one that knows the holiday.

You don't know when it's coming. You don't know when it's coming. Right. So this is one of them days. Okay. And sure enough, if we're in there, we're getting charged. And the beat comes on, and he goes, maize, why do I keep hearing Doodoo Brown?

He's like, I keep hearing Doodle Brown. As the track is playing, he's going, Don't stop, pop that pussy. Let me see you. U-Doo-Brown the whole time. He's like, why do I keep hearing us? So he started to craft the lyrics. That's where you get the Luke pattern, the cadence,

and check out how I navigate. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. That's all that, yeah, that's all of that. That's where it came from. That's where it came from, Doodoo-Brown, literally, literally. And he was like, yo, when he came with the whole, check out how I navigate, ha-ha-ha-ha. Mesa, I need to laugh.

Mace, I need the laugh. I need the laugh. And that laugh, I did that laugh. I forgot when I started doing that. It was a show. We used to do bionics. Okay. We used to end the show with bionics.

And I started to do the laugh. The laugh was intentional because I forgot what tour we was on. We was on Rock the Bells. Okay. Before L.L. got the band back. We was on that. So the ensemble of artists that was on. was on there, there's that competitive nature.

We all out there trying to pull out our best shit. So, you know, our secret weapon was always fife and biz. Got you. Bring fife and biz out. And then we would close bionics, and then I would do the laugh. And the laugh, all, you know, it just took the life of his own. It was intentional. It was like, in the bionics, it was ha, ha, ha, we still here.

That's what it really meant in that moment. And then we just held on to it. It was like, yo, you gotta keep doing that. You gotta keep doing that. And then, yeah, I just kept rocking it for a while. I did a cornerstone mixtape using a laugh, and then came up to the guerrillas record. Dave was like...

That laugh. The laugh. Or recall, it was like, I need to laugh. Nice. Okay. So it went down in the studio. I just kept doing it and doing it. And they was all fascinated in the studio

how I could keep doing it and keep doing it. And it was like, how do you do that? I was like, I don't know, man, that's my laugh. I mean, it's a little bit more embellished because I'm forcing something, you know. No, it feels authentic, though. But that's my laugh. I'm like, my laugh used to get me into trouble. My laugh would get me into fights, literally.

So for it to turn out to be that, you know what I mean? It's a good turnaround. You know, I mean, I used to get ridiculed behind my life. I end up in bouts a lot of times just behind my laugh, you know? Oh, man. You know? It's ironic because my first impression of you guys like, oh, that's the nerd. That's the happy-go-lucky hippie, and he's the one that'll beat me up.

But now it's like, I would say, Dave is the moody one. So for me to discover it, oh, the moody one I thought was the nerd, POS is based on his verses alone, and I think that's his therapeutic thing. Yeah. Poss is a low-key player, like just with all. this little, like, and I'm like, oh, okay, Poss, I don't know you got down my, and then you are actually the heart of De La Sol. To me, besides getting your master's back, one of the most revolutionary things that you guys

did was you were like, first out the gate, at least with using, established group that I know using Kickstarter as their business modus operandi, you know, like, you know, like, you Instead of relying on a record label, and I won't say the burden of wanting to take all that on yourself. How would you guys talk into kickstarting and raising funds for yourself? By the way, Merce, I've not got my sneakers yet. However, what made you guys decide to do it? What have you learned about yourself as businessman?

And I guess I can also tie into having your master's now and what it takes to release the music that we want to hear again. So just like start with the whole Kickstarter concept with what I would, I don't know if it's a nightmare or just like I'll, sure, we'll do it again or not do it again. Like, what was it like for you? It was a daunting experience, but an experience I wouldn't change, you know. Well, because you pioneered it. I don't like to give myself no pats on the back, but I pay attention really close to this business.

Right. From the time we got in. And all the different changes, the different facets. I read Donald Passman's, both of his books, you know. That was a great template for me to... Which book? Everything you need to know about the music. Music business, okay.

Yeah. And then here I did a second one that touched on the change with the Internet and all about. Okay. You know what I'm saying? An updated version. Yeah, updated, yeah. So those were great templates for me to continue to navigate

through the business of De La Soul and the music business in general. Prior to that, it was always Prince Paul. You know, Prince Paul, when I was struggling with certain things, I went back to Paul, and Paul was like, yo, I can't help you. Paul was like, I can't help you. He said, because you've had success that I never had.

So that tripped me out. You know what I'm saying? It was like... Yeah. Ours. Yeah, he was like, you had some success that I didn't have. He said, so I'll. I don't even know how to tell you how to navigate what you're dealing with, you know.

So I started to pray a lot more, have studied more, and have real discernment on different conversations I was having with different executives that like to manipulate and learning their hustle and figuring out just pulling this piece apart. And I know the more ways you create, they want you to get out the way, you know. And that's one thing I did learn. Like, oh, I'm creating waves, so nobody want to mess with Mace. They want to talk to POS. They want to talk to Dave. They want to talk to who they think is docile. Will be agreeable.

Yeah. Right. You know, not knowing that, you might want to talk to me. Because my guys. Trust me. I know you're going hard to deal with. Trust you. That much I do know.

But in certain changes that were happening, you know, we are. a little conflicting with one another based on the fact that some of us was paying attention to certain things that others weren't. You know what I'm saying? So this was another milestone in our relationship

on trying to connect with one another's growth. For the longest, I've been the little brother, you know? I was like, here's for a better term. I was like, look, based on how we're growing in this, stop calling me the little brother. Call me the younger brother. Gotcha. You know?

Because the little, brothers seems like the one you need to protect who don't know nothing. You know what I mean? It has a connotation. Right. Diminishes your stats. You know, and that wasn't what was going on between me and past. I was going on between me and Dave.

So once we established that, it was another growth in our relationship as brothers, you know. Like, Mace may be on to something here, you know. The Kickstarter idea came up. It was a bit of a struggle because Dave verbatim felt like, yo, we look like, you know, we look like we begging, you know. You look like we, this system looked like we begging. And I was like. And was it weird?

Like when Tommy Boy imploded. This is when he just think like, okay, we'll just go to another label or fine. That was, that was, you know, that's always the, was the, well, when Tommy Boye folded, we did, we did go to another label. Went to Century. Right. We went to sanctuary. And it wasn't even. It was, um.

Like, was that album considered a success or? It was a corporate own. company with shareholders fell apart. Completely. Great album, though. Thank you, brother. Thank you. It was a first partnership, like I say, we were in, outside of Tommy Boy.

So everything after that ended up being partnerships or just independent, you know? And luckily enough, with the Kickstarter, it was a bit of both. It was when we decided to do the Kickstarter, it was because the deals that were out there were not favorable. for what we were conditioned to, to what was being offered. And respectfully, I had to go, yo, man, we are 10 years without a record, and the industry is plummeting in a certain way

where it's going digitally and all that. So these deals, they're not hot. Now, what they're offering, yo, we could go out there and do some shows and raise that kind of money on our own and maintain our ownership, you know? Then the first I saw Kickstarter, I don't know, it came across my internet feed.

And when I was doing my research on it and tapping into the different artists that were doing it, the person I really focused on was at OG. People don't know that. Hit me. At OG did a Kickstarter. He did a Kickstarter, and he met his goal. Reason why we don't know, because it wasn't $600,000. You know what I'm saying?

It was like 40-something, 50-something, thousand, but it was his goal. And he met his goal. It just wasn't newsworthy. That's all I'm saying. Break it down like I'm first grader. So the thing is that you decide from the gate what budget you want to raise. And then you create this record and then the album sells and do the those who contribute

get their money back or is it just in good faith? They just want to, they want to just see it happen. I couldn't even believe it myself. Like, it was too good to be true. Like, they don't want nothing. They, you know, I was promised we- Two pairs of sneakers. But go ahead.

You heard that. You heard that. You owe, bro. You owe. No, no, no, no, you good. You go poop. You owe poop. No, you're good, you good.

I got five pairs of daylight dunks anyway, so we're good. But, uh... Yeah, so you did it. We went... For the money that was being offered regarding the record deals, you know? Okay. We was like, okay, let's be fair in trying to raise what we know we can, all we need is to record the record.

So the offers that was out there was like nothing more than 150 grand. So it was like, yo, we range it around 130 grand that we could raise. I said, look, we could raise 130 grand and we still own the rights to our record. It's supposed to have to give it up to something. some company, you know. That was the idea. Dave wasn't quite feeling it. Merce was on the fence and it was really trying to come up with ideas of how we can

give a little to the audience that's willing to support us. What can we, it need to be a reciprocal thing. So we figured out how to do these tears and come up with ideas of whether it's POS going shopping, me going record shopping. somehow creating this relationship with the audience. The community. Yeah. So just doing something a little more because of what they're given.

And documenting the sessions and all of that. You know, I think what sold us all on doing the entire ideas when we did an EDM event in Miami. And somebody came to us on like, yo, you guys need to do a Kickstarter. So, of course, I looked at both of them was like, Told you. Right, right, right.

Nice. So, you know, but sometimes you got to hear from my outside source, you know, for affirmation. And sure enough, it wrapped around Dave's mind a little bit, wrapped around Mercer's mind a little bit. I think also everybody got wind of what Spike Lee and Nelson George was doing as well with raising money for the docs they were doing. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, yo, I'm telling you, man. This got us written all over it.

You know what I mean? I was like, look, there's an audience that actually just loves us. I'm like, B, we late to the party. It's really what's going on? I was like, what's going on with the Internet and these nerds and the creators and all of that? You know, they really are into heavily into artistic value. I was like, B, and we, not to pat ourselves on the back,

but we're a trusted source when it comes to that. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm like, it's like, yo, it's a matchmate in heaven. And Dave was still kind of hung up on it, It looked like we're begging for money, Mace. Not if we approach this a certain way. And to start to look at the tiers of different things we start to think we can offer in what they're given.

So once you reach the finish line. Well, we superseded the finish line because we all, we had looked to only raise about 130 grand. And it ended up superseding to being like 600 grand. Would you want to do it again or was it just like just one project at the time? and... I would love to do it again. And, okay, let me... I don't know what, for what project.

It would have to be something special, you know, something I think more than an album. Okay. You know, something, I don't know, something maybe musical and visual, you know. All right, I have some nerdy, quick, rapid-fire things to ask before I wrap up the show. Who stole your pathfinder in front of the studio? I would somebody could tell me Because I was hot with that shit Nope

I had to chuck it up Collect the insurance money And ended up getting me a new truck And did that happen as you recording Fanatica the B word We were Yeah it was in that session For real

We were It was a night session Fanatic of the B where everybody came up to the studio I was in there They all went to some club or whatever Damn All I know is I was

in the studio and I never forget Mone going, yo, where's your truck? She's like, everybody knew I couldn't park my truck the way it sat up so high. I was sitting on 40s. Like, I really had off-roads, lights up top. So if it wasn't an outdoor parking lot, I couldn't park me where I could park on the street.

Did you just think it got towed away? Yeah, I did think it may have gotten towed away. But once I contacted towing, no, my shit got stolen. And this was a year Nissan was getting stolen left and right. Yeah. So I was like, I only had it all but two and a half weeks. I was feeling myself. Come outside and it was gone.

And I was like, damn. Mooney was like, what are we going to do? We're going to go to Heavy D's party. That's what we're going to. Still going without a ride. Because I'm like, I knew I got to take the train home at this point. Right. And the train is long out of railroad.

Don't come back on until. five. So we're going to... Oh, so you go to Star or two. Let's go to have party. And I got to take the train home. What are your five favorite De LaSoul records? Ooh, that's like saying what's your favorite child?

Right. And this includes the mixtapes and all those things. Ooh. Because I would have impossible mission inside my top five, but go out. Wow. I guess I could say the songs I do get excited about. No, I'm talking about. Or albums.

Wow. I got to say right now, Cabin in the Sky, bro. Just the way it's hit me. You know, each one of them hit me differently, you know what I mean? Is Cabin in the Sky the culmination of the long-rumored Primo and Pete Rock are going to do our records for us? Like, you just married the two together? Yeah, pretty much. Okay.

It pretty much. Are there any songs left over that haven't? No. Okay. No, I think you got everything. Okay. From the Preeton. Are there any extra day verses that are just on ice for now until you?

I got something on ice. Okay, good. Got a couple things on ice that I would love to consider for AOLI3. Okay. AO.I.3 is still going to be a film? That's a thing. Okay. That's happening.

Cool. What is your favorite De Laosol album? The first one will probably always be very special because it was... It saved your life. Yeah. And it saved my life for so many ways. You know what I mean? I was still a virgin.

Got you. Like, you know. Pony ride with the... How did that idea come to be? That was Dave. Dave did pony ride. Decide to sample him, squishing the record every...

Yup, he sampled it just like that. You know how you did the tap? Yes. Yeah. That was him. All right. That was Dave. What five songs don't we know?

In addition, when I asked, to me and myself and I question of you, like, helming it. What other four songs in the De La Catalog did you helm that we might not be aware of? Ego tripping. Okay. I know you did it in the woods, right? In the woods. Okay.

Afro connection. That was you. Yeah. That is my favorite De La Joy. You guys opened with that. When you did the De La Soul is Dead, that was your first song. And we were just, we were right next to the speakers. So it was just like, we weren't expecting.

and that level boombastic. Bob Powers makes that. Okay, but I gotta ask. And I asked this to Paz. In 1991, no one in their right mind would even dare think of using mustache James Brown

as a sample source. This is like a B-side from the get-up off that thing record, which, again, no hip-hop historian in that era would even even think, yo, what made you see the gold in an otherwise unremarkable song? Like, you caught the best part, ding, ding, ding, ding. I don't know.

I just happened to hear it. You were just like, oh, James Brown record, upper grab. I think it was also what I was using at the time. I was using this, some eight-second guitar pedal as a sampler. Okay. Yeah, it was, that was, it was my first real sampler. Okay. For real.

And I had it. I actually learned this from Paul. You know, I had that locked in with a sequential time. A loop thing. My guitar play does the green box with the, that's what you use? That's what I use for Afro connection. Does someone just not teach you here? Is it NBC 60?

No, uh-uh. You learned through a guitar looper. Yeah. First, I started out pausing tapes. Then I graduated to the SK1, then the SK5. Gotcha. Then I followed everything Paul was doing. And then, you know, I was doing what I can afford pretty much. When I saw Paul, he had that pedal, and he had a sequential time drum machine and an eight track. I had a four track. Okay. And he showed me how to lay sympathy two to four track to get everything to trigger on time.

Once he showed me how to lay sympathy, I was off to the races. Wow. Okay. And then anything after my first two or three samples that I got in time, then everything else was triggered. So that down, down, down, down. That was because of what I was working with. That's crazy. Like in my mind, I love hearing an unorthodox.

methods of making hip hop records in which no one is just sequencing on a drum machine, none of that stuff. Like you're figuring out ways to loop and stuff outside of the... Outside of what we eventually learned how to do. Okay, my last two questions. How long did it take for you and MERS to really like... So we're doing this. Like, for Dave.

Like, how long did it take? Because, you know, I'll say that losing my manager, Rich, in 2014, really put a good 10-year pause on me and Tariq. Like, we did nothing without Rich's. What do you think? What do you think? And now it's like, oh, we got to be the adults in the room. And do we trust the, you know, so we had distractions to.

And, yes, it's still coming out. I'm sorry. The album's still coming. I know you guys think I'm bullshitting you now, but it's coming, I promise. But how long did it take? to get over the anxiety of how do we restructure the show now? How do we turn this body of work into a full vision? How long was it before?

I don't want to know from beginning to end how it came together, but... I wrote on a lot of posture strength. Was there a discussion like, hey, we're just going to end it right now? No, it was, I was lost for a minute. No one couldn't even really find me. He had to come. This is when I was living in Florida. He had to come to my house and really grab me out of the room.

He had to literally find you. Yeah. How long did it take for you to process it mourn? Like, how many months did you take off? I'm still mourning, bro. I'm still morning. You know what I mean? It just hits me different every day.

Like, it hit me earlier today when I saw deep. I cried early before you came in. Like, actually, when you was in here setting up, I saw D, and, you know, we can relate, obviously. Right. And he showed me his JMJ belt, and it just broke me down. You know what I mean? So, you know, just, it hits me at different times.

It's times I'm laughing a lot on the memories, and then I'm crying at times because of the memories. You know what I mean? And I miss my dude, man, I miss them. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of, life partner, you know, it's probably the same feeling I'm going to have if I lose my mom or my wife or somebody, you know what I'm saying? I'm never going to get over that, you know, the ride of the ups and downs, you know,

I miss everything, the arguments, everything. I miss them, man, you know what I mean? I'm glad you mentioned, like, the idea, not of tension, but, like, in trying to convince them of me, myself and I, or convince him of Kickstarter, or convincing of, you. You know, I will say that I've been the passive member of the roots. Don't like confrontation. Don't like dealing. Yeah, you like boss.

Y'all are same in that. Well, no, I don't know why I'm sharing this now. Like, Rika and I really had a personal breakthrough three days ago. And I mean like 34 years under the belt just like sound check. Let's make an album. All right, peace. See you tomorrow. And every time I get it.

around you guys and I'm like damn like you're you guys are still like to I always thought it was impossible for friends and business partners to even exist in one thing like what happens when and for me it's always like I don't like that beat and like no matter how hard I worked on that shit like weeks before it's just like okay here it is it's cool and then you take a personal I know that feeling. Right. And so I admire that. And for me, I just always wanted to know, like, how are you there for each other now that keeps you going?

We always been brothers, man. I mean, I think what people see now you can. That awesome. That's awesome. Oh. That's very obvious, you know. I think that was the answer. Yeah, yeah.

That was the answer. That was the answer. Did you guess that? What you see? It's very obvious, man. We, all right. We, we all right, we all part that. We truly love each other, man.

You know, I think... That was perfect timing, Merce. People could actually... I probably notice it more because we don't have Dave. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it's a little bit more, I think, micro people are paying attention to certain things. And I think the way we've been expressing.

and our loss. There's something relatable there. Yeah. You know what I mean? My family, man. We've been through a lot, man. And it's all about how you come out on the other side. You know, family fight.

True. It's a fact. But that's the testament of being family. You know what I'm saying? How you come out on the other side, you know? Yes. It's always going to be some kind of conflict, some kind of confrontation. You know, it's how you get through it, man.

I'm a praying man. I pray, man. God is all I've had since my childhood. You know, I lived in fight or flight, you know? To have a friend like Kelvin Mercer is a blessing. You know what I mean? True. My last question.

At one point, ketchup was your angle and then you lost it. Why did you lose the ketchup angle? High in sodium. Your blood pressure issues. You're actually answering the... Look, ladies and gentlemen, This is the first of three behind the originals. Thank you, Levi's, for holding this down.

Thank you, Macyo. Yo, thank you, brother. I love you, man. I love you, too, man. Levi, thank you for staying classic. Yes. Y'all are classic. Yes.

Thank you, Levi's, for doing this for us, and we will see you on the next go-round of Questlove Supreme. All right, Macyo, thank you. I love you, bro. Love you, too. Work it up. And there you have it. Macyo.

Man. Myth, legend, correct on all counts. One of the best laughs in the game. That's episode one of this very special behind every original run with Levi's. I want you to keep your eyes peeled to the feet. And we'll be back soon with another legendary artist who did it their own way.

The Questlove show is hosted by me, Amir Questlove Thompson. Executive producers are Sean G., Brian Cahoon, and me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. Produced for IHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Conroy. IHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation by Nick Paloi.

Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks to Kathy Warrong. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review, and share the Questlop show wherever. You stream your podcast. Make sure you follow us on socials. That's at QLS. Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLS episodes,

including the Questlove Supreme Shows in our podcast archives. Questlove shows a production of IHeart Radio. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast, Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on.

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