The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Allee Willis

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

In this QLS Classic, "That-one-song" writer, Allee Willis talks shop from her days as a songwriter for Earth, Wind & Fire and The Rembrandts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, all. wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's

East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to understand the draft. miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Course Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What up y'all? This is Laia. And this week's Quest Love Supreme Classic is all about a true legend. Her name was Ali Willis. We lost her a couple of years ago. But before that, she sat down with Quest and Team Supreme, September 19th, 2018, as she was also being honored as songwriter of the year. Yeah. Who is this person who has the color purple, friends and earthwind and fire in common? It's Ali Willis. And we break it all down in this. episode. So listen, learn, and, um, celebrate the life of a really cool lady. Suprema, Supraima, Subprema. It's like a duet. Suprema role call. Peter Paul Mary. Yeah. Suprema. Subrema role call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima role call.

I'm slightly out of it. Yeah. I'm a little sick. Yeah. My favorite jam of all time. Yeah. It's September by Taylor Swift. Supriva Subma roll call Supriva

Subrima roll call My name is Sugar Yeah Always wanted to ask Yeah How high were you When you wrote Neutron dance Right

Supriva Supra Suprema roll call Suprama Subm Subm Yeah Allie's here

Get up Yeah And I'm so hype Yeah We're about to steer it up. Roe Call. Suprema. Subrema, sub, sub, subrema, roll call.

Suprema, subpoena, role call. I am Allie. Yeah. From the Valley, L.A. Though I used to live in New York. Roll call. Supreme. I'll take that.

Superma, Roleca. Submina. Superma. Superma. I thought it was Detroit. Suprema, yeah. Suprema. Submina.

Superma. Roll call. Suprema, son, son, Suprema Rocahn Wow, okay. We were a little scared when we started the theme because it was only

normally, it's like 19 billion of us. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a very anemic Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove. The show must always go on. We're here today with It's Laia and Sugar Steve.

Hello, people. I will say that if you know me or if you know us well at the uh at quest love supreme we've been here for a year and some change uh then you know that we're all about looking under the hood to see what's under the surface and today is no different uh quick quick backdrop story so back in march when uh taylor swift pulled a uh a master three michelin star troll move. Pissed all the aunties off. With her cover of the

Cousin Pete family reunion Barbecue Peru rendition of September. Most of us called the Raisin Potato Salad remix. You know, as expected, Black Twitter was

up in arms because that's what Taylor Swift does well. But But little did we know that we had a lesson coming to us. And so most of us were beyond certain that all the authors of that song were the blackers of the black. We just knew we were spitting up all of our facts and everything. He's going to disrespect the blackest song. I mean, we just, yeah, that's the barbecue.

Like to me, that's the blackest song since coming up the rough side of the mountain. In my opinion. Anyway, we just naturally assumed that the authors of the song were the members of Earth went a fire. And that theory was extinguished quick fast. And with the help of the University of Google, we quickly discovered that our guest today has indeed earned her PhD, her lifetime barbecue pass by writing. And I don't even say like classics or hits. she's she's damn near written half my memories and some of the and I'm not talking about like the outright hit I'm talking about like I've never played the game of oh crap she wrote that too I've never had more fun discovering her her her legacy and and and her her songcraft and her life more than our guest today ladies and gentlemen please welcome to the Questlove supreme Ali willis yeah

Yeah, me white, Allie Willis. But the right Allie Willis. The right Allie Willis. Plus, everyone thinks I'm a black man. When I meet anyone, they go, shit, you're a woman and you're white. So, you know. So I should note that you are getting inducted

into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Yes, tonight. What? Tonight. Can I ask what took so long? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Talk about it. Which is why I never gave a shit about being in the songwriter's Hall of Fame. Because there were a lot of people, you know, who were in there who had hits, definitely, not necessarily ones that you might know 50 years from today. So I just assumed, you know, I was passed over. Didn't mean a lot to me. And then when I got it, I was so excited. I couldn't stand it.

So it does mean a lot. and I'm elated. Well, I'm elated for you because, you know, well, one, you know, as a person that lives for liner notes and credits, I mean, maybe it's just easy to overlook a name or something, you know, you've been, you're ubiquitous, yet you're under the surface in the eyes of many a liner note rat. But once we discovered what you did, it was like, heesh. Yeah, it's, I, you know, I, you know, I'm. the world's best kept secret.

Well, hopefully, hopefully not for long. So I want to go back to your beginnings. You were now, even though you said from the valley and. Well, I only got through half of that. I was, I was born in Detroit, the greatest city in the world. What part of Detroit? Easter West. Northwest.

I went to Mumford. I never had a Northwest on the show. Yeah, Northwest. A lot of people came out of my high school. The Winen's went there. The Clark sisters went there. Earl Clue, Jerry Bruckheimer. Wow.

Jerry Brucker was from Detroit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So what was your entry into music?

Because I know that you had a history as a copywriter at Sony. Yeah. Columbia. Columbia. I was a journalism major with a minor in advertising at the University of Wisconsin. And someone told me that they had advertising departments at record companies. Yeah.

So I got a job as a secretary at Columbia and Epic. Almost didn't get the job because they sent me upstairs when I interviewed for a typing test. And I literally was on my 11th time of failing. And the... What was the test? Typing. Words per minute. You know, like you have to do like a hundred words a minute.

I was like at 20. So they dictate something to you and you? Yeah, you're actually reading something and you have to type. Oh. And just I wasn't getting it, but then the head of the advertising department called upstairs where I was taking the test and said, send her down because they just found out that day that the secretary was quitting. So I got the job. But then within a month, I was bumped up to junior copywriter. So I was in charge of all the minorities, which were blacks and women.

That's all I cared about anyway. And so sometimes I wrote the liner notes. But usually I was writing print ads for like Rolling Stone, cream, billboard. So it was up to you to collect liner notes for all those Columbia records. So like. Well, no, it was up to me to actually get the acetates as soon as the artist finished the record. Right. And then write all the advertising for it.

So that was radio commercials, print ads, some cases TV, but not. So my main people that I, well, I met Janice Joplin the first day that I was actually a secretary. Right. She passed away five days later, but I got in there. And then I eventually moved into her apartment. So, yeah, I have a lot of stuff like I saw Otis Redding's plane crash. I mean, I have a lot of stuff like that. Tell us.

Well, about Otis? Well, wait. Did we start with Janet? Because like you said, you met her. Janice. Janice. And then I was writing promo for Pearl, the album that came out. Actually, right after she died.

But, of course, we didn't know she was going to die. Johnny Cash, I did early stuff for it. My main artist that I was in charge of, though, Lauren Niro, Barbara Streis. and blood sweat and tears. They were considered... Were they considered an urban act? Yeah, they were put in with the black acts.

Because they had horns? I guess. Yeah, not not... Well, explain to me. I'm glad you hear it because... Well, it's not like we have Clive on the show ever. He was my boss. I know.

Yeah. So this is the closest I'm going to get to it. Do you remember what the... atmosphere was like when you guys were given the final master to there's a riot going on? Because I figured that on the heels of stand and Woodstock and the greatest hits record

it was like oh this is going to be the monster and you get it. And it's a whole other thing. Yeah, what was the room like? People who were diehard, sly fans loved it and felt like he was progressing. but I think most of the record company, they wanted, you know, dance to the music and everyday people.

And they were getting, you know, thank you for let me be myself. The slow version. Yeah. So it was a mix. I remember there was some like panic in the room that maybe this wasn't going to be a hit. You think? But, you know.

Well, wait, we're forgetting something because like on your coming up from Detroit. Yeah. I want to ask you at this point how you're parents felt about your journey because we know that your daddy wasn't really missing with the blacks. Yeah, we can thank him for my career though because the more resistant he was, the more it pushed me. He was not a bigot, though. He really wasn't a bigot. He did it more to push my buttons. You know, and he knew that the black thing was going to be the thing that put me over the top.

Yeah, Archie Bunker, though, I think believed it a little more than my day. My thing is growing up in Detroit, I grew up right when Motown was like formed and coming up. So I used to go down there every time I could. It started when I was 12, I think. And I would sit out on the front lawn because you could just watch people, you know, walking in and out. But most importantly, you could hear through the walls. So, yeah, certain instruments. You could hear bass.

You could hear drums. Sometimes you could hear backgrounds. From the lawn. Yeah, because it was just in a little house. So, you know, if you were sitting close enough to the house, which is how the Supremes got discovered, they were also sitting out in front. And I think Mickey Stevenson, who was head of A&R, came out on the front porch and said, can anyone sing? I mean, I wasn't there for that. How many people are sitting on the lawn on the day? We had to be really dedicated. There were always, like, tourists around. But there were a few people who were, like, planted there. Was it a 24-hour operation? Yeah. I'm thinking of the safety.

Like, okay, well, not to really blow up their spot, but, like, in Brooklyn, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, town headquarters, which was Sharon Jones's, uh, yeah. Yeah. Like, their operation is very similar where it's in a neighborhood. Yeah. Um, I don't, I don't, I'm not quite certain or aware if the neighbor. The neighborhood knows what goes on in that house. Yeah. But I always wonder, like with motel, like, was it a 24-hour operation?

Was it secure? It's, you know, when people are like, I'm trying to break in there. I was never there at night, but my understanding is, yes, 24 hours. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, during the day, there'd always be tourists there.

And then there would be, you know, the lawn sitters. there's actually a little patch of dirt now, you know, today, right in front of the big, you know, those big historical landmark, those green and gold, they're not plaques, they're big. They're like five feet tall. And it says Motown Studios and it gives the history. So there's a little patch of dirt because people stand there to read the plaque. But I'm really friendly with everyone running Motown.

Now, which is headed by Barry Gordy's niece, Robin Terry. So there's talk of naming that patch of dirt for my ass, basically. Really? Yes. Yes. Which would be my proudest moment ever. So when did the Motown people, whether it be Barry or whoever the artist is, when did they discover that you were who you were?

Like, because not until Motown the musical opened. Really? Yeah, because I never got inside. I was always outside. And then when September first came out and then Boogie Wonderland, the Detroit Free Press did a thing, you know, like the local girl makes good. And that was the first time I was ever in the studio, because they did the story in the studio. Then I never, ever went back in until I did this project that I worked on for five years. And this would have been maybe 2000. 2014 that I actually got into Motown and we recorded a piece of this project there, which was a 5,000 Detroiters as lead singers doing a song about Detroit. 5,000 lead singers. Yeah. And it's a great course for, yes. Yeah, it was crazy. It took five years.

There's also a visual component to it. All self-funded. Nearly killed me. But I love that city and I'll do anything. And then only within this last year was I introduced to Rob and Terry. They heard about my collection because I have a very vast pop culture, kitch pop culture, kind of off the center line. So they came out to see it because they have a lot of Motown stuff, like really obscure stuff. And then I became inseparable from them.

They came to your house. They came. Yeah, they flew out for a day. and then just in Detroit like three weeks ago they threw me a party and I had my birthday at Motown that was a surprise party that happened there so everyone that was on the tour they stopped they play this little film

when you start the tour have you ever seen that film? Oh my God. No. Oh, you'll have a heart attack. It's like classic Motown footage but not that you usually see and it's the first thing that they show you when you take the tour.

So then they stopped the tour and they said, you know, ladies and gentlemen, we know how much Motown means to, you know, everyone, but there's a certain person that, you know, is here today. Because, you know, I never learned how to play. I write the music, too, but I don't know how to play. And it's, I write the exact same way that I did when I sat out on the lawn because I'd learn bass parts because that's what you could hear. Or I'd learn like drum pattern. And I still write that way.

I'd like kind of hear something and, you know, then it goes down. Anyway, so they said, you know, it met more to this person than anyone and then the whole place saying me, happy birthday. It was pretty unbelievable. That is amazing. Yeah. That is amazing. So my Motown thing, though, is new.

And I never met Barry Gordy, which was a quest of mine forever. And when Motown the musical opened in Detroit, it's at a theater that is literally right the block from Motown. And, but one of my friends directed Motown the musical, Charles Randolph-Ra-Right. And he said, you're meeting Barry Gordy. And I had, I had a camera, because I have videoed my life since 1978.

So, really? Yes. Literally, every significant moment and trillions of the insignificant ones. but nothing rated R everything's out there it was the 70s everything's out of there

and anyway so I saw Charles go off to Barry Gordy and I could hear Barry Gordy going she wrote what she wrote what and then I got to meet him I have all of this on film

and you know as I'm giving him kind of my final hug I thanked him and he said no thank you, which to me were the greatest words ever uttered to me in my life. Because I idolized him forever. I mean, we're still thanking you.

Thank you. That is crazy. Wait, so how old were you when you left Detroit? How long did you stay up there? When I went to college, which was 17, then I would come home for vacations. And then once I was 21, I went to New York. Yeah, I went to New York and that was it. So what was the, did you have any 20 grand?

experiences up in Detroit. Only in that I was always dying to go there. I mean, I went a couple times that Baker's Keyboard Lounge. Do you know about Bakers? I've not heard of it. Bakers is really where the Funk

Brothers came from. It's still in existence. It's a jazz club. And you know, the Motown, the Funk Brothers, they were all jazz players. Right. So most of them came out of there. But it was you know, my father did not

like me having these tastes that I had for black culture. So I wasn't really allowed to go out. He couldn't stop me from going to Motown, especially once I got my driver's license. But I always like to say I did get the last word with my father. He passed away in 2002. And the very, very last words that I said to him, I leaned down and I whispered in his ear,

I just got the gig to write the color purple. And he was gone within the hour. Gone. Gone. So whatever he put me through, I got him good. Oh, God. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories, that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. to never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, And dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent.

He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. sibling-wise, are you the only sibling? No, I have an older brother and sister. One still in Detroit, my sister lives in Omaha.

But they did not have a fascination with Detroit the way that I did. Were you the middle child? Youngest. Oh, you were the young? Youngest. Okay, explain. Yeah. So, back to, so when you left Detroit and college and whatnot, when did you, did you go to L.A.

connection. I, well, I had the job at the record company from 69, actually, to 74. But in 1972, I wrote my first song. Okay. And I took it to my boss at the record company, the head of the advertising department. Actually, I took the first three that I wrote. And he took those to a guy named Ron Alexenberg. He was head of epic at the time.

And then Alexenberg, not knowing it was me because it was a conflict of interest to work there and be an artist. And I didn't want to lose my job. Alexenberg liked it and then took it to Clive. So Clive had to sign off on it. And then I got a deal. So I had to quit. And I had one album that came out,

first 10 songs I ever wrote, did not make, it actually got great reviews, but it had zero sales. Okay. So I was doing four, I only did four live appearances. I was terrified of performing. The first performance they put me opening for a folk singer, I had an all black band dressed as sequin vegetables. And everyone in my band like went on to do.

do something great. Wait, who's the band? Yeah, I'm about say put it, yeah. It'll be like James Gatsett and all these like monsters. Yeah, well, Bob Babbitt, who was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, how?

They liked me. I don't know. The greatest thing is that tonight at the Songwriters Hall of Fame induction, the background singer is the very, very first singer that I ever hired to be in my band at the time. Fonsie Thornton. Ponsie Thornton? Yes. He's getting inducted to? No, no. He's singing backgrounds on Neutron Dance in September,

which they're... Fonzie's like, Luther, like, just name it. Like, well, yeah, like best friends with Luther since kindergarten. But the amazing thing is Luther was Fonzie's piano player. And Fonzie actually had a group. There were three of them. Yeah. And so I ended up hiring the three of them

and leaving Luther behind. Luther was pissed off. But Luther, that was my very first music click. That was like family to me. Now that you're here, I got to ask you, quasi-person. Does the name Billy Jackson mean anything to you? I mean, I know.

Formerly other times. I know he wrote so in love for the Times, but he was also a staff producer at Columbia. No, I don't think I know the same Billy Jackson. but So in Love is absolutely one of my favorite all-time records. Anyway, so what happened was, so I go out on tour, it was disastrous. I never relaxed one second on stage. And I didn't want a tour anymore, and then I lost my deal, like four months after the album came out.

That night, one of my, my best friends were the Harlats. They sang, you know, Bet Midler. Right. And one of them, Sharon Redd, who went on to have like a bunch of, like, disco things. Sharon Red? That was my best, best. Wait, she was a heart. What?

Sharon Red, yes. And Charlotte Crossley, Charlo, do you know Sherelo? I don't know that name, but. Yeah. Sharon Red. Yeah. Who was Sharon Red? Why should we know her?

Well, she had a bunch of disco hits in early 90s. Yeah. I mean, she's just the name that, you know. Yeah. that you just, as a DJ, I know that name. So I lost my record deal. She said, you shouldn't be alone. Come to this recording session I'm doing.

I don't want to fucking be at a recording session if I've just lost my deal, you know? But she was like adamant about it. And I went and it was another one of these unbelievable things that I am blessed to have happened to me. We opened the door to the studio. It was the hit factor. which is where I also recorded my one album that came out.

And produced by Jerry Ragovoy, by the way. And opened the door. And the singer, who I didn't know, took one look at me. And she literally ran over to me and got on her knees and started bowing and said, What are you doing here? You should go home and write me a song. And it was Bonnie Raid. Whoa.

So I got my very first cover, the next day and went on the road with her for a short while singing backgrounds and then you figure well it's going to roll but it didn't roll. I'd get a couple things cut a year but nothing significant

and then Patty LaBelle in 1978 same person Sharon Red had my songs because the Harlets got a record deal and it was with the same producer who was doing Patty LaBelle Patty heard the songs and then flew me up to San Francisco.

I was living in L.A. by that time and flew me to San Francisco to make demos because they didn't have any money to make demos. She was just hearing like piano vocals. And then Patty became the first one to regularly cut the songs. She said I have a friend who's also up here recording, go into Studio B. He needs lyrics. I hated just writing lyrics. and I didn't want to be with the friend. I'm finally with the big cheese.

So what do I want to be with the friend for? So for two days, I avoid going into this studio. She was in Studio A, he was in Studio B way down the hall. And I was walking down the hall and the door to Studio B open. And I go, shit, that's the guy. And I head into the bathroom. So I'm in the bathroom. I had to pee anyway.

So it was fine. You were that shy? Well, I wanted to be with Patty. She just didn't want to fuck with him. Yeah. So anyway, I'm like sitting on the toilet and the door to the bathroom opens. And I hear clump, clump, clump, and these two male feet slide under the bathroom door. H.R.

And all I hear in this deep voice is like Patty said, you're really good writer. You know, come into Studio B. So I go into Studio B and I figure I'm trapped. I'm like a speed writer. I'm surprised you ain't cussing out coming in the bathroom. No, no, no.

No, because I knew I was messing up by not going in. I mean, I'm, you know, I finally meet like a star and I'm already not doing what she, you know, said. It could be overwhelming. Yeah.

Was it overwhelming or just? Well, this was overwhelming because we had, he had all these tracks and so I'm sitting across from him and we're just firing these lyrics off. And it was not until the middle of the second song, swear to God, that he had a phone call and I really started staring at him, you know, and I went, oh my God, it's Herbie Hancock. Wait, do not tell me this is how just come running to me got written. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

That was the first one. I rewrote that before I realized it was Herbie Hancock. Yeah. See, this is what you don't. know. And I can't even believe you know that song. No, this is what you don't know. That song is a very significant song to my, my generation, my click. Wow. Another Detroiter that you might not be aware of, a producer named Jay Dilla. Oh, I mean, I'm aware of. You've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. He, his gift, if you heard the term like, oh, musician's musician or songwriter. Yeah. Yeah. Usually he's like an obscure person that the regular people don't get.

Yeah. But only the special people get. Yeah. He was the producers, producers, producers. Wow. So, and not even to put myself in that category. Like, only the special people got this guy. But what he managed to do, of course, you know how hip hop works.

A lot of work is derivative off of other people, you know, sampling and all that stuff. So, which is weird, I'm saying this, as of this date, 18 years ago. Fantastic Volume 2 came out today. As of this speaking, I'm sure that this will go on way. Yeah. This show will be on. It'll still be the anniversary year, though. Right, right, right.

Yeah. But, you know, normally an album like sunlight wouldn't have necessarily gotten a second look. I mean, there's some classics on it, but it wasn't until. Jay Dillon made us pay attention to it. And especially just come running to me, that means that's almost like, you know, you're tired of people telling you like how much the Friends theme means to them.

I never get tired of it. Well, yeah, I'm sure that you get it all the time. Right. Not a people telling me. That's like for the Neil's Soul generation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That means everything. Like of all you, like of all the things you,

you've done, that song means the most of me. That is so shocking because I couldn't even sing it to you now. That's like how little. I mean, I'm the reason why I hired vocorder players and stuff. Even when herbie comes around, I was like, really?

Like, that's what you want? Wow. I got everything else. Like, why that song? Amazing. Well, we wrote like three or four songs like that day, of which that was one of them. And then it was the Feats Don't Fail Me Now. next album.

Yeah. And it was almost like the sequel to it. Yeah. That's, yo, dog. Wow. The fact that that almost didn't happen and you were avoiding him like the plague.

It only happened because he had nerve to come into the bathroom. I wish Bill was here, man. And Fonte. So what till a song? Yeah. Can you get me? Please.

Yes. Okay. So basically, uh, uh, okay, I'll play the, uh,

the original. Teach us. I haven't done this since so long because, you know, I haven't heard it. since then. So basically. Literally, I have,

maybe the last time I heard this was 1980. I listened to this about 10 times a week. Wow. I don't understand how you write something like this without knowing how to write music. Just fall along. I mean, because I didn't know how to play. So I had to like teach myself.

So he wrote the music first and told you to come with lyrics? Yeah, music. Well, yeah, and then I sat with him and we wrote the lyrics. lyrics. Yeah. That's, it's crazy to me because I don't even, is this the first time that he sang lyrics to? Yeah, and it's why I never put together really that it was Herbie Hancock because what does he need lyrics for? But he had just gotten the Vogue order. Wait, turn, I don't feel like I heard Herbie sing before.

Yeah. He's have a crush on him when I was doing. Yeah. Unbelievable. I haven't heard that in so long. So for us at least, um, Hang on one second. Oh, you're going to get the JD door? Yes, of course. What was your singing voice like?

My singing voice is as high as my speaking voice is low. Like in the ozone. Yeah, it's like my hair. You're an anomaly. Well, wait, that's the thing I want to know. Well, I really want to get to Boogie Wonderland. But you're the imagery. Like, all your subject matters and your lyrics are just on some,

next level. Like, as far as the imagery is concerned. If I'm left to my own devices, they, it is. But certain, like, I was very upset writing September, even though I was so excited, I couldn't stand it. But it was such a song lyric lyric. And, you know, I was this journalism major. I wanted to write this, you know, incredible poetry or, you know, story and not have

lines be as common as do you remember the 21st night of September love was changing the minds of pretenders while chasing the clouds away that cloud line I was ready to slip my wrist but um you know you're writing in that case with Maurice and uh and Al McKay also who's yeah unbelievably fantastic but the lyric end of it was just with Maurice um it was so dark though but for such a happy song. Yeah. Well, dark is Boogie Wonderland.

That's the one that's really dark. Well, in the verses. Yeah. But I learned an incredible lesson, the single most

important lesson of my songwriting career from Maurice during September because I was very, he always used the term or the nonsensical word,

body eye. Right. when he would write anything. So if it was like he was doing that's the way of the world, you know, he would have gone, you know, Badiya, Badiya.

Yeah. So that came right at the top of the chorus as September. You know, Badiya, say to you remember, Badiah dancing in September. Badiah never was a cloudy day. So I kept saying throughout the writing, because we wrote September to be the only,

the new single on the greatest hits, and at the same time we were writing the whole I Am album. So it took months to actually complete any of the songs because they were all being written at once. So for September, I kept saying, oh my God, this is such a hit. We can't leave Badiah. It's got to be like real words.

And at first he was kind of humoring me. It's like, okay, we'll like replace them. But we don't need to do it now because we know this. works. Right. So we are at the at midnight. We were at sunset sound in LA and the whole album was due plus September. Had to be out of the studio at midnight. It was like 10 minutes to midnight. And I went into the studio and I did literally get on my knees and I'm clutching his thighs. the man had the best thighs in the music industry. I got to tell you.

Yeah, probably. And begging, like, we have to change bodya to real words. In his biography, he actually says I was crying while I did this. So I was very emotional about this. Because I think, oh, my God, this song's going to go in the toilet. Because no one's, who's going to know what bodya means? But by then, bodya yaw was in the earthwood and fire lexicon. They had done.

Yeah, not as prominently, but yes. Yeah. And like sun goddess or something like that. Right, right, right. In your head, what would have fit those three syllables? Well, that was part of the problem. Everything was corny, you know, because you only have three syllables. Give me examples.

Like, what was tossed around? Well, when we did try in white words, it was still stuff that nauseated me. Like, you know, oh, my love or, you know. Oh, my love. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, it was hideous. It was hideous.

Anyway, but I'm still begging him. And, you know, he was calm. It took a lot to, like, rile him. I, to this day, like, never saw him angry or anything. Or lift his voice to anyone, you know, to anyone. Just this serene being. And so I finally said, I, like, scream, What the fuck does body I mean?

And he just said, who the fuck cares? And that was it. That was the end of it. And then the record was out in three weeks and my life changed. Our tummy's changed because that was the barbecue jam of all jam. Yeah. No, it still is. It's the song that wouldn't die.

It literally gets bigger every year. I still need to know more about Bariyaa. I mean, it's just a random sound. They just always, you know, since that's the way of the world, since open our eyes, they just, bap, pop, pop, but I could tell you what Bariah means. Okay, Steve. It means to ching. That's what it is.

Do you know, I know you'll know it. Hot Dog it? It was Ramsey Lewis. Because that to me is one of my favorite Maurice vocals. And that's all, I can't actually remember. Who's that dogging around is the only actual vocal in there? Otherwise, it's all body type, just phrases and sounds. A win is a win.

A win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and The Big Money Players Network, work. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent.

He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. All right. We majorly skipped. Yeah. We went straight to Earthward Fire. I want to get to Can't Let Go. But let's go back to the beginning.

Another one that I thought insignificant and that song can't let go. Yeah. That is, I still, that's still my DJ's it. Like that to me, that should have been. that was a contender. I think it was a B side of something. It was. I think, yeah.

But it should have been a hit. Like that to me, why did they? That's incredible that it's my obscure, more obscure ones that you like, which I love. That's not incredible. That's my love. Wait, talking to Angela Bofield. Anyway. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. You are pulling them out. Wait, why Angela Bofil's song? I don't know which one. He'll know which one. She wrote the title track. to the one album that really didn't make it something about you.

It's in between two tough and Angel of the Night. The Angel of the Night The Angel of the Night is the funny story is that even though that didn't get much, I mean, I've heard first four records, like my dad was the biggest

Angela Boothfield. Me too! That album didn't get that much play, but here's the funny thing. Growing up and the don't touch my, don't touch the Stereo household, there was a scratch on side one of that Angela Bulfield record. So you already know.

And so, you know, the way that our stereo was positioned was like far away from, we had speakers all over the house, universal speakers. But the stereo was in the living room. So like if you want to change it, you got to go downstairs. Like you can listen to it in any room of the house, but you still had to go downstairs. Right. And so because of the way that wax culture is, I think it's the first line of the second verse of something about you, which I think is you've been hungry too long.

It always skips. My cousin's whispered dirty. Whereas says you've been hungry too long, says you've been hungry too long, because you've been hungry. Shit used to always skip. And that memory, that is etched in my brain like a tattoo. I can't even remember.

Was the chorus like, I think there's something about you. Yeah, yeah, okay. That's all I remember, though. Yeah, but it's just like, yeah, but the thing is, is that. I used the word, he used the word hungry all the time in lyrics, though,

so I know that it's me. All the time. So, yeah. What was you hungry for? Everything all the time. Okay, so as a songwriter, okay, I'm taking it back to her. 77, you're in the bathroom.

So. 78 well 78 yeah how how terrifying was it living check to check like and how does a songwriter make a living in l.A like this is like you just wait for the quarter to come did you get a publishing deal did you like how does that work uh I know I was pretty starving to death when I first lost the job at Columbia epic I became a hatchet girl at comedy clubs. So at Catch a Rising Star. Oh.

And then there was a club called Reno Sweeney, which was a cabaret. That, uh, Bet, Melissa Manchester, Barry Manilow, Manhattan Transfer came out of there. Oh, you quit. Yeah. So I, um, uh, was hanging coats at Reno Sweeney. And, well, at both of the clubs. Yeah. And I was also hanging posters.

I was going around the city with like glue and shit. Um, but I moved to. California because it was if I'm going to starve to death I'm doing it in the sun so I actually moved in 76 and no I was getting I was on unemployment um really not making money at all I did get one publishing deal with like a $5,000 advance which to me was like a million dollars right um was going home back home ever an option like I got a little bit never no because my father situation. So you write letters like, hey, dad, I'm doing fine. And it was like, yeah, no. And every time I got a record cut, it was by a black artist and then I'd have to go

through the whole like conversation again. So not, I only got reattached to Detroit seven or eight years ago. And then I became obsessive about it. I always loved it in my heart. But I wasn't going back constantly.

So he wasn't impressed with September and Dad, I got a number one hit. Not to my face, but I always heard from all my friends like, you know, if we see your dad walking down the street, we got to go to the other side because he'll talk about you for two hours.

And he'll show us clip. He'll show them clippings and all of this. But not, not to me. Okay. Really didn't give it up until right at the end. And then I sent him out with the color of purple. So even And so how do songwriters get paid?

Is the artist like, okay, I'd see you're starving. Here's a couple hundred bucks just to keep you on your feet. It was, you know, all my friends were songwriters. My whole little click. Some became performers. Those people were making money. But the ones who were just songwriters, we were basically just starving together.

It was quite an illustrious group. Everyone went on to like have hits. And all pretty much around the same. same time. We all kind of hit at the same time. But no, we were collecting unemployment and really that's it. Like when Patty LaBelle paid for me to go to San Francisco, that was it. You know, the Harlettes were up there, you know, which is how she heard it. So they were like giving me money for food and she paid for the ticket. So that tasty album, Patty, was that the only time you work with her before you got to stir it up?

I was on a couple albums of her. I had a couple songs per album. Okay, okay. For two or three albums. Yeah, stir it up was like way after. Well, relatively way after. Okay, okay. So with, I know that you also,

okay, I got to get to, it's big and BS. No, it's a lot, but how, what was, on your mind with Boogie Wonderland. I can tell you exactly. I've been waiting for this moment. I can tell you. She got some other jewels she holding for you too. I forget about the other one with Craig Fillingame. Oh, oh.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so Boogie Wonderland I wrote with John Lynn. John Lynn had written Sun Goddess for Earthwind and Fire. And he was managed by the same Cavallo Ruffalo, who, you know, managed

Earth, Wind and Fire. Denise William. like Prince. Yeah, Prince. Yeah. Oh, that's the story I need to tell you. So remember Prince. Yes.

And so Maurice kept saying you two should write together. So this would have been in March, I think, in 1978. So I already knew I had a whole bunch of Earth, Wind and Fire stuff coming out, but nothing had come out yet. John had had something out. And we wanted to use the word boogie because, Every song had boogie in it at that time. Right.

But we didn't want to use it in the normal sense of the word, which, you know, to dance. And I, the night before, had seen the movie looking for Mr. Goodbar. Which, Diane Keaton movie. She goes out to discos every night. Like, her life is completely falling apart. But she gets into the club and, you know, her life is all of a sudden magical. and she brings home a different guy every night to sleep with. And the audience has led to believe that one of these guys is a serial killer.

Not what you thought you were going to hear for Boogie Wonderland. So we wanted to write a song about someone whose life was falling apart but would escape into this world of dance every night where everything would be okay. So we knew we wanted a really dark verse. and we wanted a really sparkling happy chorus. So the, and we wrote the song actually in order. So the, you know, that verse, which people always come up to me and they say, Boogie Wonderland, it's such a happy song.

And I always say, have you listen to the lyric? Never. But people sing it like, you know, you sing it phonetically. People sing along with it, but they don't know what they're singing. So the verse is Midnight creep so slowly Into hearts of men Who Need More Than They Get

Daylight deals a bad hand To a woman who's laid too many bets The mirror stares you in the face And says uh-uh baby it don't work You say your prayers Though you don't care You dance to shake the hurt Then we wanted to

The song was actually written In a different structure Than they recorded it in Because they go from that They do the little dance, Boogie Wonderland chant. And then they go right back into sounds fly through the night. I chase my vinyl dreams to Boogie Wonderland. I find romance when I start to dance in Boogie Wonderland.

But we inserted the chorus in between the verses. So it went from this dark, depressing, you're looking in the mirror and feeling like shit, to all of the love in the world can't be gone. All the need to be love can't be wrong. All the records are playing, and my heart keeps saying, Boogie Wonderland. And we wanted that to sound almost Broadway-ish and how happy that that music was.

It was supposed to be like a bipolar mood swing. Yes, it was. Into the chorus. Yeah. And... When you write these lyrics, do you just come out with the complete prose or like, are you thinking of rhythmic structure?

Are you thinking of... because that's a lot you're placing a lot of poetic thought into the imagery but in my head I'm like okay well how's this going to fit in this line and this line and that line and how can we

we we definitely wrote the music we wrote the music to the verse first and then put the words to that then we jump to the chorus music and lyrics I mean every song is different I we were

actually trying to write for Earthwind and fire. But, you know, so we knew it had to have like, you know, a certain rhythmic thing to it. And because the chords were so dark in the, in the verse, that seemed to fit. And the first few lines that the chorus came easy, but we still didn't have boogie in it. And we didn't know how to work it in and we didn't really know what to call the song. And oh the course was last Yes and the words Boogie Wonderland was the very last thing that we got

So what was the course? It was originally called Johnny's Casino Lounge So And we Yeah We got the phone book out Because we said well let's look up names of clubs So we looked up clubs and we looked up bars

and one, we liked Johnny's, and then there was another one called the Casino Lounge. So the original chorus started out, come to Johnny's Casino Lounge. That was the original thing. You just became my all-time favorite person on Earthman. Instead of, you know, and then we went, no, no, it doesn't sound important enough. Earth Wind and Fire is not going to sing Johnny's Casino Lounge.

So then we came to, you know, All the love in the world can't be gone. Right. And when we got to, all the records are playing and my I keep saying. When we got there, it was, we wanted Broadway. We wanted Cinderella. We wanted, you know, something. So that just felt like it was this incredibly Broadway-ish line.

Neither one of us liked theater at all. But it was, you know, what is like my fair lady or something? It just felt like that kind of melody to us. So once we got rid of Johnny, Casino Lounge. We tried to fit it in the end. Chinese Casino Lounge, you know.

When you're writing these songs, are you thinking first, let's write a hit, or you're just trying to express an idea? Well, in my head, I always wanted hits. Because it's so layered and so complex.

It was like, it didn't dawn on me that any, anything was different about it, which it was. Seriously? Yeah, because I, my whole thing was there used to be this massive discussion between what is art and what is commercial. And I grew up on top 40 radio. I loved top 40.

So to me, the greatest songs were when you could mesh those two things together as opposed to making a decision between going one way or the other. So I was always trying to shove that in. that song felt the whole way through like, okay, that is exactly what we're doing. But Boogie Wonderland only came about because we realized that even though we set out to write a song using that word, we hadn't used it.

So we went, okay, screw it. Instead of the club name, Boogie Wonderland is going to be, what this needs to be is the state of mind. that this person is in when they go into the club. So that state of mind became Boogie Wonderland. So are you having these philosophical discussions as you're doing it? Yes.

And I love writing that way. So is there like a vision board or something like, okay, so what do we want to write about? I mean, you know, I have written with thousands of stupid people. Thousands. It's a drag to write with someone. stupid because you can't have these kind of discussions. I love having these kind of discussions

because you really like break it down and you know like what the goal is. She just became my all-time favorite. She is. Like she's just everything. Like I'm in love right now. This is amazing. This is my cold scoring. But John Lynn

was someone you could have those kind of discussions with. So you know, that was really one of those where you're kind of intellectualizing it the whole way through. See, I just always felt that Boogie Wonderland was a, I mean, that to me was the, when we talk about troll culture,

the, especially like in today's, uh, in internet society, when you speak of troll culture. Yeah. The, the art of,

of, uh, provoking someone or whatever. Now, usually in, in the canon, in the songwriting canon of earth, went in fire.

Yeah. Boogie Wonderland isn't necessarily in anyone's top ten, but I always, Surf's, Earth Woman Fire fans were like, ah, they try to do a disco song. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah. And I always had to argue, I'm like, yo, like, Boogie Wonderland and Hayya are almost in the same. Oh, my favorite. Hey,

yeah's in the same category. Like, Dre's actually making fun of the audience that's embracing it. Yeah. And he says, like, they're not even listening to the lyrics where it's,

like, he's literally saying you know people are just want to shake their ass but they're not even peeping the darkness of the song right now

and I noticed I always felt that Boogie Wonderland was done with a wink I thought it was let's make fun of disco well it was with a week I need to get you the demo

of Boogie Wonderland yes you do which you could actually get to right now because they do have it on my website yes but it was we always

felt like we wrote it as a song they cut it as a groove. Like it was never meant to be all orchestrated like that. Oh, so once you had the demo and the lyrics. Then they can do whatever they wanted. So when you heard the final product, what'd you think?

Well, I was at a bunch of the sessions. It took me to hear that song as an oldie to go, oh my God, it's really good. So at the time... I thought they fucked it up. Yeah. Really?

Yes, even though I was very excited, like we were at the string and horn sessions, that just in terms of being in the room with those kind of strings, those kind of horns, was exciting, but it did not feel appropriate for the song that we had written. I mean, now, in hindsight, you know, I absolutely adore it. But at the time, it's like, what is all this stuff doing on here? But even in your Broadway vision of it, because, Earthwood and Fire is theater. They are high theater.

So I don't think they knew it at the time. So I always felt this is a multi-layered troll and mastery. Like, I can see that. Yeah. But the demo was was different. The demo, you would have to hear the demo. John's singing lead on that. I will get you the demo.

I think that would be really interesting for you to hear. Extremely. Also, within in the stone. We can't ignore that you wrote in the stone. Yeah. What is that about? At the time, I had no idea. You know, the first thing he ever said to me, Maurice, literally, the very first thing was, do you, what do you know about Eastern philosophies? And it was like, I knew nothing. I didn't even know what he was talking about. What is that? I always say I was as evolved as pop rocks. I was like, I was like, strictly, you. you know, pop culture, top 40 radio, television. And, you know, I knew he was into all this, you know, deep shit. So I said I didn't know anything. So he gave me a list of books and sent me to... Homework?

Yes. And sent me to a store in L.A. called the Bodie Tree, which was the... Yeah. Like, just you could smell the incense like a mile away. It's still there? No, it's not... There's a... I meant...

the culture is still there. Yeah, yeah. It's not physically still there, but there's someone that was associated with that place that has another place similar to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. So he gave me 10 books, and he said the one you have to start with,

it was called the greatest salesman in the world. And I thought, oh, it's about advertising. I got this down. And I opened it up, and immediately it's not about advertising. It's, you know, the profits, and they're in the old Egypt. And I got so confused immediately, immediately.

But in the stone on that album, and I am, was supposed to be the song that kind of really got all of their philosophy in there. So I never understood it as we were writing. He would basically tell me what he wanted to say, and I would give him 10 different lines. that said that. Now, of course, I understand everything. It's very, let alone the phrase I am.

He said, that's what I'm going to call the album. I said, what does I am mean? Now it's in every spiritual philosophy, you know, that there is. But, you know, very much about presence, being in the now, in the stone, the fact that, you know, culturally, that everything kind of is pre-written, that man kind of, there's this mindset for what man is. And we have passed, and he very much believed in past lives and future lives. But that one, I was flying by the seat in my pants.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings, I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent,

I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galka. joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Did you have a good rapport and friendship with Maurice White?

I'm only asking because what makes I am really significant is the fact that even though, all right, so, like, and Steve, even though Maris's Richard Nichols, which was Charles Stephanie, yeah, passed away, kind of leaving him to hold. the ball and hold everything together. Yeah. Which, I mean, for the all-in-all record, I felt like the just the sheer adrenaline of, okay, now I have to drive this car and make Charles proud of me. Yeah. But I always felt like, because you, I mean, you come into play, but also David Foster. He brought us the same day. We were both brought in.

You two were brought this. Did you guys work together per se or were you like separate camps? I know on some songs together And then I also did He had a solo album with Jay Graydon Called Airplay Okay Oh yeah

Yeah So Graydon and Foster were kind of a team At that point You know what I've had that airplay album forever I didn't know that was David Foster Yeah yeah Oh okay Sing's on that record

Yeah Yeah Another person I can't remember the single I think could it be all right Something like that It's a yacht rock classic Oh okay

Yeah I like it then. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you like dentist office,

rock. Yeah. It's a, not a, smooth L.A. Not a class. Well, no, no,

no, but I love like that cheesy Kenny Loggins. You like kitsch art? I love, I love, I love,

Kitch music. Yes, I do too. Yeah, I do too. The Airplay album is right up there. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was very 1981, which is when it was. Yeah. All that L.A. musician, Toto,

sound didn't, I live for that stuff. Wait, are you kidding? Oh, no, Toto was recording next door to us the whole way through I am. We had both studios locked out for like a year at Sunset Sound. Really? Or at Hollywood. No, yeah, IAM was cut both at Hollywood Sound and at Sunset Sound.

I have a good Hollywood Sound story. Tell us. Because for D. Well, Michael Jackson was recording next door to us a lot of the time. He would record during the day, Toto would come in at night. and so Verdeen kept saying Michael Jackson wants to meet you and it just we never coincided that we were there at the same time and I think it was 81 I guess finally we're there at the same time and he said let's go right now he's there I go in Michael Jackson stands up

he grabs my hand we're shaking hands and someone runs into the studio and says, Richard Pryor just set himself on fire. And Michael Jackson's hand just like went limp in my hand. And he like fell back. And I thought, I got to go now. And that was the only time I met Michael Jackson.

It's not to laugh at it. That's because it is the story. Now, I remember that. Were you, well, I'm back then? Yes. Oh, for the record? No, but yes.

I remember, yo, that was in April of 80. 80 was it 80 yeah yeah I yeah that that news hit my aunt like lost it yeah that was something else anyway wait so and speaking of Michael Jackson then we bring up Greg Phillygains who is one of her besties yeah yeah I go way back with him he we love great yeah yeah I know I've heard the the podcast uh-huh um but the question you were going to do it no I know you asked him a question And I don't he either didn't know the answer or didn't answer Was whether earth went in fire played on their records. Oh And Ali Willis knows the answer. Yeah Tell me. Okay, I have to say in my day, yes, they did. They played every instrument there were people like Paulino

You know, DeCosta was coming in, but they they played all their stuff later it started changing up a few years just a few years later and I think Maurice was also getting conscious of hearing certain things and going well we want to sound like this right which to me then really deadened the sale or the feel of it yeah yeah yeah I think it's impossible I mean it's kind of like Dr. Drake like it's I think it's impossible like it's I think it's impossible because by that point, I mean, after 1975, they were such a force on the road. I'll give a big example. Like the Beach Boys.

To the point where if as a unit, the Beach Boys were always touring on the road and kind of Brian was at home. Yeah. Maintaining that. So I always felt that there were more, whoever could deliver the greatest performance musically on their records after 1978 could do it i mean i'd definitely feel it for i mean on the raise album on on their 81 raise album there's yeah by that time it was shifting but certainly before it was absolutely at least when i was there yeah it was all them yeah so that's always been a question

but marie's kind of talked about it as book as well um okay so i always felt that you were the spiritual whisper, you have to tell me about working with Narda Michael Walden. And is he always like that 24? Yes. Really? I talk to him. He just comes me down. Oh, I was thinking the other way.

Oh, he's hype? Absolutely. Hyper. Not hyper. I adore him. Yes. He's hyper? On.

Bang, bang, bang, bang. Every time he talks. to me. It's like my science teacher from third grade. He is, I would say he's 50% that way and 50% the other way and there's no middle. No middle. He is an unbelievably great guy. I love him. I worked with him recently. But we started when he used to open for Patty LaBelle. So when I started getting my Patty stuff, he started. you know, hitting me up, let's write together, let's write together.

And I almost immediately got sick of songwriting as soon as they started having hits. It was just because it was too much. Everyone in their mother is especially- So when something would hit, then people would knock on your door. Yeah. Then the pressure to make my shit like September. Yeah. And I think because I was so associated with Earth, when and Fire, people assumed I was just

the lyricist. That drove me nuts. Right. And in a lot of Earth, Wind and Fire, I was. but with no one else was I. And it never was as interesting for me just writing lyrics as, you know, versus writing music and lyrics.

So by the time Narda got to me, which was after September was out, I was trying to weed out who, you know, I was writing, I was getting over 100 songs cut a year, which, so I was a machine. I would write five, 600 songs a year. I mean, I was writing three, four songs a day. Wow. How do you not get none from

that process? I did. I stopped enjoying it almost as soon as I had hits. And how do you enjoy life? What's your creative process? Because the number, for you to turn out that many a day, it's like, how do you not get writers brought? It was mostly writing lyrics and I just started hating it. It was exciting at first because you get on everyone's album. But I didn't think musically, most of the time. It's like if I had been co-writing the music, bar five we would have been somewhere else. You know? Right. So

it eventually led to, it led to really me being kind of miserable, the more songs I got cut between 81 is when I really started feeling like I can't keep doing this. This is, it's going to make me hate music. Really? Yeah. And then 83

it happened with a Manhattan transfer song. They had me write lyrics. There was a Spiro Gira song called Shaker Song. Right. And so they had me and David Lasley, who was a frequent collaborator, mine, incredible, put lyrics to it. It's like, what are we going to do with Shaker?

You know, what is that? And it took us forever. You know, we finally figured out, Oh, he can't shake her as opposed to shake her. But what they wanted was a jazz song where every single phrase had a lyric to it with very little repeat. So it was a four-page single-space lyric.

That just went linear? That went linear. You know, there were four lines repeated where Shaker was. It would repeat. Otherwise, it constantly changed. It took forever to write. So I was really good friends with all of them, and they called up 1981 this was. I was already at the point of like, I'm not interested in doing this anymore.

It's just, it's too much because you write that many songs. What is there to say? And I'm writing mostly to music that I didn't care about. But I was getting on these huge albums. So Tim Hauser was the, you know, his group. he called up and he said now we want to do pick up the pieces average white band

and so write a lyric to that and we need it like on Monday and it was my birthday that weekend I'm a huge party thrower that is my number one skills parties way above music way above music so I thought

oh God now I have to do what I did to Shaker's song which was nightmarish even though I loved the Shaker song but it was really hard song to write. So you think about average white man, you know, be it-a-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's like, oh my God, I got to do this all the way through, and I know there can be very few, you know, repeats. So it ruined my birthday weekend.

I just, you know, sat there writing around the clock, and I handed it in, and Tim said, oh, we just wanted the chorus. Oh, fuck. Yeah. And that was at the point where I went, I'm out. I can't do this because I also what I was doing is I would write with a group or you know, an artist and I'd write seven or eight songs and then maybe they would do one. If you were lucky, they would do one. And I just felt like songwriters get so taken advantage of. It's not like you're getting paid to write.

And it's, you know, don't make me do eight songs if, you know, you already got nine songs on the record. So what am I doing this for? and then pick up the pieces that like put it over the top so i spent the next two years being completely miserable but still getting a lot of songs cut which is a lot of the reason why i don't know the angela bofeel song or you know probably you know tons of them because there were so many in there it's still an incredible bert and a half because it every these words are just pouring out of you I know I'm presenting this romantic version of like The guys are just pouring words out of you

But it's like But words that you stop caring about Between writing so much And not caring about some of the music Feeling that the music could have been so much better So when something doesn't make it Where is it? In the garbage can

You didn't know somebody else? No No What? Yeah, oh no I mean for every song I have out There are 10 others sitting there. Nothing happens with them,

especially if it's not music that you thought was that great. And you were writing with a specific artist. So, no, there were hundreds of songs just like, you know, dead fish. You know, it was, it was. So you said literally, like, where is that pick up the pieces? I'm the world's biggest average white band fan. Yeah. So just as a completest, where is that?

I'm sure I've got it. somewhere. You know, I have it, but you know. And so I decided right there and then something has to change. Took me a couple years. But out

of total frustration, I started to paint. And I was working with one of the go-goes at the time. And Jane Weidland. Jay Wheatlin. Guitar. And she came in the very next day and bought my first painting. So,

I thought, oh my God, I have this built-in music audience. I'm going to keep doing this. So I just started painting. It led to a lot of like sculptural things and whatever. And that's what I mainly did in the 80s. I was still writing, but the art was the main thing. And I wanted to combine the art and the music. So Neutron Dance became the very first motorized piece that I did. So I had, I wanted to get the kick drum on the record to trigger the movement. Couldn't figure that out, though. So it was mainly my interpretations of what the songs were. And I would cut out, you know, people and buildings and everything would be moving.

I did Neutron Dance that way. I then went back. I did Boogie Wonderland. I did, what have I done to deserve this? And the biggest fan of my motorized art was James Brown. Really? Yeah. And I have video of every inch.

of him ever like being in my house. Because you said you had a story because he was the reason that you started collecting. Well, James, you know, I always collected memorabilia and I loved black memorabilia specifically late 60s, early 70s, massive afroses, the fashions. Talk about what you have. What's in your, like, oh my God. It's unspeakable now, but.

Yeah, unspeakable. You need a trip to Willis Wonderland. That's what you need. Next L.A. We won't make one. But, you know, but, you. You know, I wasn't, originally, you know, I was, there were Sambo's in there, there were Mamies, and James Brown went around my house. He asked me for a grocery bag.

Oh, yes, James. He gave him, gave him a brown grocery bag. And now, but mostly my stuff was the massive afros, but there were Jamimas in there and other things. And he would go and he would pick it up and he'd hold it about four feet in the air and then he'd go, bing, and he'd let him. his hand go and you could hear it smashing in the bag. I have the bag too. I have all the smashed pieces. So,

that's like an art piece you could make for that. Yeah, no, I know. I know. So he was the one that really said this stuff is not cool. But the rest of my stuff, he said, you have to keep collecting this because black people did not know these things were around. There wasn't enough money to distribute stuff.

So if something was made in Detroit, it wasn't going to get past Cleveland. And very specifically, it was a couple games that I had. One called Slang Lang, 1969, made in Detroit. I think Irene Carter is the company. Black Bingo. So instead of B-I-N-G-O, it's B-L-A-C-K. And instead of that middle free space, it's we are free people. Wow.

And then instead of the numbers, it's Chitlins, uh, funky Broadway, Cadillac, uh, gold tooth. I mean, amazing stuff. It is absolutely, and we're here right now from the Smithsonian. She might have it. Have you talked to the Smithsonian about some of your stuff? No.

You're like, you're not, you're like, you're not. Oh, no, I'm ready to talk. I have to make an introduction to Timothy and, uh, Burnside at the Smithsonian who, well, wait, this is an unbelievable conversation because in, 2020, I was supposed to have a pretty major exhibition of my collection and my work and how it worked together. And this morning, before I came here, I got a thing that the CEO of the Charles Wright African American Museum, which is the second largest African American museum next to the Smithsonian now in Detroit, she resigned this morning. So there went the exhibition.

So yeah. Please introduce me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you been there? Have you been there in D.C. yet?

No. And I've got a couple things because I know the color purple's there. Earthwind and fires in there. Yeah. So I'm dying. And they have a like Mammy section and a Sambo and explaining about the. So you would really appreciate it. Yeah.

Oh, I would love it. But my stuff is all like one of my favorite things is it's a do. It's called the do-it-yourself black power coloring kit. And it's, I love you. And all it is is a, you know, you got a couple little paints. And then you get a figure that starts out as a white man and you paint him black. And he's got his fist raise. What year was this?

That was 68, I think. 68. I thought I was a pack rat. in a culture We didn't even And then like talk about the The correlation between your house And Peewee's house

Well that people used to think that I did the set Which I didn't We at that time were like inseparable We were best friends So we had very similar aesthetic Uh huh But but I actually didn't have anything to do with that I did though

Write the title song that we did as a duet to Big Adventure but Danny Elfman who did all the music music for that said ain't no one else doing the title song but I do have that the duet between me and Peewee that's the circus one right

the second movie that no that was Peewee's big top I was a big Peewee fan it wasn't yeah big Adventure was the first one on the bike with yeah you wrote lyrics to that theme yes and great that da da da da no no no no No, no, no, no, that was Mark Mothersbow and all that.

Because that's my alarm music. It is. It's awesome. Really? Yeah. No, the only thing that came out. That really was loaded, right, Steve? I just figured you would wake up to that, but apparently you just... I wake up to it.

Unbelievable. No, that's Mark Mothersball and Cindy Lopper singing. Oh, okay. So... No, you're talking about the theme to his television show. Oh, that's what I'm talking about. Okay, I was talking about the theme to his movie. No, that's the only...

No, that's the only Elfman. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But the duet did come out on Warner Brothers. They made 500 picture discs, and that's all. So anyway, Greg Philingain's playing on it, too. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take

you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind

the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends. either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield

and in this new season of the girlfriends Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take

matters into their own hands. I said, oh hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ago Vodam.

My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospect. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I have a question since we're on your memorabilia stuff. What's your record collection like after a? You know, like I converted everything to digital because I couldn't stand schlepping everything around anymore. I still have my favorite, favorite, favorite albums, mostly Motown. But it's not, I don't have it out, though.

But I have a lot of music memorabilia. So, but James Brown was the one who, said to me, you have to keep collecting this stuff. You know, you could have a museum with the stuff that you have because people don't know this stuff is in existence.

So I, you know, was the godfather saying, collect. So I just kept going. So you just collect any type of kitsch art or pop culture art, everything? Well, very specifically, the periods I'm most,

I used to be most interested in the 50s. way more interested, 60s, 70s, um, uh, kind of soul stuff. Okay. Atomic stuff. Kitch stuff didn't happen until later.

I hated, uh, Kitch. But then I art directed. Why? I just didn't, it was too, I was into like more like fantastic design. And Kitch kind of was over the line.

Not just dogs playing poker. No, I wasn't. into that stuff, but then I art directed and production designed. Julia. Julie Brown. Yeah, Julie Brown show. Yeah. The Julie Brown show, which was the very first Downtown, Julie Brown? No, the white one.

The white one. Uptown. No, there were two ones. Yeah. I used to watch that show. No, she was good. Yeah. And it was the very first MTV clip show where someone was commenting on videos. So we would make fun, you know, of all the videos. The Reddit. Yes.

I got you. Yeah. Okay. And so that set had to be really kitchy. And me and her, I remember we went to the Long Beach Swamp Meat, and there was a painting of two clowns drinking a cup of coffee. And I thought there was something hideous about this, but I knew it was right for her set.

And my deal, because there was no budget, we would shoot 10 shows in three days. And we did like, you know, like every three months, We would do another 10 shows. And we bought that painting, and I just went, I could feel it that I just had crossed a line. And then I went crazy because it became this whole new thing to collect, you know. So like I consider that black power statuette part of my kitsch collection because they could have made him tan to start out with. They didn't need to make him like pure white, you know.

I see. So a lot of stuff like that. Like I have the unbelievably great graphic on these panty hose called Touch a Soul. And, you know, it's this almost nude woman, almost like she's praying. And she's in the middle of like this, you know, red, green and black circle thing. But then the shade of the panty hose is off black, which is not right, right, you know. Or the Supremes, you know. The Supremes had white bread out.

Oh, yes. So I've got the bread wrappers. Oh, like they had bread out? Like they had bread. White bread. And they got killed for it. I have Mary Wilson on film talking about how they just, you know, it killed them. Because the pumpernickel, raw.

Was it, but it wasn't their choice. But they have made, they couldn't, I mean, they are. No, I know. But literally, Supremes, white bread. I mean, it's unbelievable. Were you always the visual art piece I want to say that we see today as far as wardrobe? Once I got on my,

once I started cutting my record in 1972 is when the clothing. Oh, so you were just peacocking back then? I was, yeah, before that, I was like, you know, what would a college girl wear? You know, like not expressive at all. And then someone took me to a thrift shop and my life changed.

Wait, before we forget. I understand. What was the print story? So, well, we've kind of ruined the impact of the story because we know who it is now. But there was this kid that always hung around, Earth One and Fire had their own label when I AM came out called Arc. And there was this weird kid always hung around the office. Didn't talk to anyone, but he was there 100% of the time. Oh, Kavala Ruffalo.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I had heard all of the I AM album complete, but I never heard it sequenced. So when I got the call, come up, Marisa's, you know, they're on the road, go in Marisa's office, it was a real-to-reel, and you can hear the album sequence.

I knew this was going to be an incredibly emotional thing for me because I knew this album was going to change my life. Right. You know, I'm still on food stamps at this time. Okay. So I go in, and the whole, like, couple days before, I'm, like, so excited. And this is, I'm going to be in Maurice's office. I'm going to have this moment to myself.

I'm going to cry. It's going to be unbelievable. So I get up there, and I'm closing the door. And someone comes over and says, can't, they used to call him the kid. Can the kid listen with you? And I thought, shit, that's this weird kid. And he never says anything. And so here's the reel to reel.

Here's the weird kid, maybe four feet back from the reel to real. I'm back like at Maurice's desk. So I'm maybe eight feet behind him. And I couldn't even concentrate on the record. I just kept looking at the guy going, fuck you. You know, what are you doing to myself? Right. Like what are you doing in here?

This is a space. My moment. Right. And then four months later, I want to be your lover came out. And I went, oh, my fucking God, it's Prince. Was there no small talk or anything? Nothing. Not a word.

Did you all ever circle back to each other? Never. No, not a word. But, you know, there's my print story. I was really good friends with Wendy, though. Wendy and Lisa still. Yeah, yeah. They've been on the show.

They're friends at the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, there's so much that we missed. I actually wanted to know how fast, this is going to be the most obscure music question I ask of the day. How fast did it take you to write shopping for me to Z? Wow, you are pulling them out. Wait, you think you were just on the show because they told you to be on the, like,

he wanted to nerd. I know your history. I just didn't know it was you. Well, I didn't write it as fast as the fastest song I ever wrote was Neutron Dance. That was the fastest. That was 58 minutes, 28 for lyrics and 32 or whatever it is. You ain't smoked no weed. How do you remember it?

Because I did not want to write the song. That was the first time I was in. I had so many hits in a row and then I had nothing. And it was at a point where I was miserable writing. and really feeling like I had ruined my career. And there was, should I tell you the neutron dance story? Yeah, tell you.

Okay. There was a movie called Streets of Fire. Yes, Diane Lane. But all they told me about this movie was that it was a handsome guy, a cute girl, and a black duop band, and they're out of town. They're only ones to escape a nuclear holocaust.

Side nuke. That's all they told me. Yes. I believe Streets of Fire was the first, PG-13 rated film. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah. This is where I can, Dan Hartman, I can dream about you.

Is this where that came from? So this was, that was the spot that it was written for. Okay. And it was Joel Silver's first movie, too. Okay. As a director, right? Yeah, as a producer. Okay.

And anyway, so they said, write this song. I didn't have any confidence that I could write good anymore. my publisher put me with someone who had never written a song before, but they signed him because his brother had the biggest record of the year, the year before, which was maniac. Oh, Danny Simbello. Yes.

Yes, the great Danny Simbello. But because he was Michael Simbello's brother. And I only found out that he had never written before, like five minutes before he was coming over. And so when I... When you're telling me that Danny Simbello's entry into music, He's written a lot of shit that we know.

That was his first song was Neutron Dance. But you're saying to me that like, it was nepotism that got him in the door? Absolutely. He would have been the first to tell you that too. Really? Yeah. Because his name just pops up everywhere.

Yeah. He's like Michael McDonald's like everything. He's one of my favorite collaborators ever. So was Narda. But Danny really unbelievable. So it was just a nepotism move. Yes. That's crazy.

And he had been in Stevie Wonder's. He was 17 at the time. And he had been in Stevie's band since he was 15. Yeah, yeah. So the only thing I knew was that he could play. Okay. Which was great for me because I can't play. So I put a timer on when he came over because I said I only have an hour.

And I thought, and he came over and he had like a little bag lunch and he had a hockey uniform on and he was sweating. It was just like the worst thing that could have happened to me. Right. And I knew we had to write for a duop band. So I just said to him, play the tritist 50s bass line that you could think of. And he immediately said, you know, boom, boom, boom, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bab, bab, bum, bum, bum. And I can sing a melody to anything.

Start tapping those water bottles together. You'll have a song in 30 seconds. So I know the music was done in 28. and then we started on the lyric and I knew it had to have something to do with you know, it was a nuclear holocaust. So, you know, something. There's got to be like burning in there

or exploding, you know, something. And I'm so glad you told the story because I'm like, what does this have to do with Beverly Hills Cop? Like why? Well, yeah. Now I get it. Now I get it.

No. So we, though, the original title of Neutron Dance? Was? Barbecue. I'm just burning on the barbecue. That was original. So this was a song we were writing.

We weren't writing for a particular artist. So it was very autobiographical because I just, I felt like, you know, my career is over, what's happening in my life. And I knew I had to make a change. If I don't get off my ass and do something, it's all over. So, and that's the, you know, that lyric, I don't want to. Stor much everywhere and all that stuff? Well, there's something very exact about that line.

We wrote the first verse. I don't want to take it anymore. I'll just stay here, lock behind the door. Just no time to stop and get away. Works hard to make it every day. I look out of my window and there are two kids picking the lock on my 1962 pink corvair. So I race out of the house. and I'm thinking I got to get this kid out of here

this song is like a piece of shit so I'm running out of the house into my driveway to chase the kids away and I yell back the line someone stole my brand new Chevrolet which is how that happened but they didn't steal it you caught them no I caught him okay and they were kids

so they ran away as soon as I got out there and then by the time I was back because I'm just racing it's like why am I putting time into this song? My career's over. Who's this kid? So then I had it in the rent is due. I got no place to stay.

And so that song was finished. He was out of the house in 58 minutes. Nice. Yeah. And handed it in. They rejected it from the movie, which to me, it was like this piece of shit song

written in under an hour. So didn't surprise me. But my publisher really liked the song. Got it to the pointer. pointers cut it, but it was, they were at their height. They had already chosen five singles off this next album that was coming out. How'd you get it past Richard Perry? I had nothing to do with that at that point.

I know he's like, yeah, that was strictly. The cop blocker, like. Yeah, that was strictly my, my publisher did that. And anyway, pointers cut it. And then I get a package in the mail that had a, cassette and a letter from Jerry Bruckheimer. He's doing his second movie. They, you know,

need a song that sounds like the song that's on the cassette and it's Neutron Dance. Did he know you from Detroit? Do he know? No. Okay. No. But they certainly had to have known I was the writer of Neutron Dance and they're sending me this thing to copy,

which they, I knew they sent to every writer in L.A. because all my friends were calling me up and everyone knew, oh, it's Eddie Murphy. That, you know, this is going to be hot. Yes, we're going to write a sound alike to Neutron dance. So is that the process for most soundtracks, at least for back then? Back then,

a lot of times. Yeah, they put the temp music in. So this explains the Ray Parker Jr. Ghostbusters. Yes, absolutely. Listen to this song. Because they sent him, I want a new drug. Right. Yeah. I see. And anyway, so I got so sick of my friends telling me

that they've ripped me off that I called Danny up and said come over. And so we stripped a neutron dance demo down to the drums, used all the same sounds, wrote an exact parallel lyric, and handed that song in, rejected for Beverly Hills Cop, and three weeks before the movie came out, I found out that Jerry Bruckheimer had gone into his garbage can looking for a cassette to tape over, played the first few seconds of this song that he pulled out of the garbage,

and it was stir it up. So stir it up and neutro- Yes. Listen to the lyric of stir it up. Yes. And listen to the lyric of Neutron dance, and they are the exact same song. I'm doing something I haven't done in a long time, ladies and gentlemen.

That's what a story? Yeah, it's, yo. Yeah. So that's how those two happen. That's a crazy story I've heard since the human nature discovery for Quincy Jones. What, from Steve Piccaro? Yeah, like, the cassette was on auto, what do you call it, when it goes to side B automatically? Yeah.

Whatever it was on side A. Yeah. Not from Steve, but from the other guys in the group. Yeah. And they were recording over his cassette. Yeah, yeah. Side B, and suddenly, human nature comes over like, that's, yeah. the song.

Really? Me and Steve wrote a song. Michael Jackson wanted a song like human nature. And we wrote a song. It was my first time working with him. Uh-huh. And Steve was going to meet him in Las Vegas or something. And then Michael Jackson died.

Oh, wow. Yeah. There is a song on the latest Toto album called The Lowe. called The Little Things that Steve actually sings the lead on that was supposed to be the human nature sound alike that went to Michael Jackson. I got to make a note.

You said, what's the name of that song again? The little things. Yeah. So, lots of stories like that. Where are we at right now, I'd like you? We're good. I mean, we passed, yeah. But we didn't even get to the color purple

and the parties and the Jennifer Lewis besties. Oh, yeah. Your Jennifer Lewis's best ones? Well, she's one of my best friends, and we need to show him just from last week, her doing, leading a little sing-along. With her book rap. Chanting in order to sell the book. At her house with a cast of Color Purple with a full, like, choreography.

Yeah. What Allie in the back doing a choreography too. Yeah, it's a minute long. A very typical of what happens. If Jennifer Lewis cannot come when I throw a party, I changed the day. What? I changed the date because she ends up hosting the parties with me all the time. Jennifer is, she's unknowingly responsible for the success I'm having with my current book right now.

Wow. I heard, usually right before, I didn't want to do an audio book. This is like my fourth book and I'd like try to stave off the publisher for making me do an audio book. Yeah, yeah. So once I gave in, then I was like, all right, let me do some research. because I don't want to bore people with my voice. Yeah. And someone recommended it to me, listen to how she tells a story on her audiobook.

Yeah. And I listen to her, you got to listen to. Yeah, now I want to. Get the audiobook of Jennifer Lewis's. The mother of black Hollywood. Yeah. Mother of Black Hollywood. She's the most compelling storyteller.

Like she uses her voice inflections. So that's the reason why I decided like, yo, well, I don't have the gift of like, And then I told Oh he's going to die when he sees this Yeah like I didn't have that So I figured like what's my version of Jennifer Lewis Oh I'll do skits So like I put

Oh you reenacted to actual well I have like actors and stuff Like people like rereading and Steve is Who are you Steve? I'm Paul McCartney Yeah Steve is Paul McCartney So like I owe that to Jennifer Lewis Look at Steve's face. He's so proud But you know Jennifer Lewis

Has a similar type story of being inspired by someone in order to get a movie part that she got when she went up for, what's the Disney movie that she's in? Sister, no. And the character is Mama Oda. It's one of the Disney movies like six, seven years. Yes. Okay.

Six seven years ago. She's been on a lot of shit. Yeah. And she didn't know what voice to use for the character. And she owns a lot of my art that I've done. and beautiful by the way thank you in 1999

I took on an alter ego named Bubbles the artist who I manage and Jennifer started buying up bubbles stuff RuPaul and Lily Tomlin own the most they battle each other

Are you saying Have they ever been in the room All these people been in the room Upal Lily Tomlin and Jennifer All together Oh my God I can die Was it cars three? No it wasn't cars

It was like the princess Oh, Princess and the Frog. Princess and the Frog. Oh, the only black princess. Yeah. Okay, that's it. So anyway, so one of the paintings of mine that she owns, by Bubbles the artist,

who I manage, but is actually me. Okay. Is a thing of Mom's Mabley. So Jennifer goes to the audition and she has no idea what to do, what voice to do. And she said she flashed on the. painting of moms. And so if you listen to her character

in that movie, it is Mom's Maple. She goes, Dad. Okay. I used to listen to tapes of Mom's Maybe for my dad driving to school. Incredible. And you painted her. Yeah. I loved Moms. Maly. Well, Bubbles painted her.

I mean, Bubbles, I'm sorry. I just manage her. Right, right, right. Okay, it would actually, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention obviously. Well, okay, I'm certain that you're going to say, yeah, I wrote it in five minutes, didn't mean anything to me. And it just became one of the biggest theme songs. When did you actually write remembrance?

I'll be there for you. Rembrands. Rembrands. I'm sorry. That was written in 1994. I did not really didn't want to be a songwriter anymore because I had gotten onto the internet in 1991. came up with a concept for a social. Right.

Yeah. Social network in 1992. My CEO became Mark Cuban. And we, no one understood. So explain the concept because back then it was the super information highway. Yeah. I wanted to take anything that could be done in an online environment, which was not a lot. And there was maybe one of each of these things.

But you could sell things. You could play games. You could do email. You know, it was very limited stuff. I wanted to take everything, combine it together in one place, which wasn't done then. If you shopped for the one car that maybe was online, you'd have to take 10 minutes, log off, then go to where you would, you know, play a game. You were always in this black hole of cyberspace. So I wanted to combine everything.

I'm the first one ever that said the Internet is a social place, that this is about people, connecting to each other. So there could be collaborations and there could be friendships and there could be all this kind of stuff. And at the same time, you could sell them cars and they could collaborate with each other and they could get information. They could do anything. And we're going to create this fictional community inhabited by these fictional characters who are going to be the guides into cyberspace for people who in 1992 did not understand what cyberspace was. And I prototyped it throughout the 90s, but we were just too early. You were way too early.

No one knew what we were talking about. Does Mark Zuckerberg know? Most likely. Yeah. So for like, when you discovered Frinster and all the early templates. I had a ton of resentment that took me forever to get over. Because all those, they ignored the issues that we couldn't solve and therefore didn't do it. What happens to copyright?

What about privacy? And we just didn't know the answer to it, you know? Still, damn, don't. But so I was interested in that and I still had a publishing deal to, you know, a quota to fulfill. And quotas had never been,

I'd never had one before, but it never would have been a problem in the old days. But now I'm interested in something that's non-linear, that's totally interactive. And I'm not interested in a three-minute song that goes from here to here, and the artist is the only one that has a say in it. I'm interested in what is music now that anyone from anywhere

can impact what it is you're creating. So every time I thought I'd written enough songs, the publisher would say, no, you know, you haven't. Finally got down to I owed a seventh of a song, and they said there's this TV show coming out. No one thinks it's going to be a hit. Write this, you're out of your deal. So, um...

Shit! Yeah. Shit! So the music, Michael Scloff, had written already. He was married to one of the producers. Right. And gave me the song. I thought this is the whitest thing I've ever heard in my life.

It's going to ruin my career. But everyone said, don't worry, because who's going to hear this? No one's ever going to hear this. Yeah. No one's going to know. And so I handed it in and it blew up instantly. And I, so it was a 45 second. thing that a disc jockey in Nashville made a cassette of and played it back to back for 45 minutes.

Rembrandt's got it because they were the only band signed to Warner Brothers who were in L.A. at that time that weren't on tour. So no one is- Just find somebody to do it. Yeah, no one associated with this song really wanted anything to do with it. And it became the biggest airplay record in 1994. It was unbelievable. So for me, that was the official end of my publishing deal.

So it was perceived that I'm going out on a high note when, in fact, I was like barely crawling. Really? Yeah, because I wanted to do this cyberspace thing and no one knew what I was talking about. So that was just a gift. That was a gift. Yeah, whatever. It was a gift, total gift. Okay, so in the ending, can you confirm or?

not confirmed for me, that one song can change your life. Absolutely. Well, movies and TV gives you this impression, like that one hit single, you could just live off that. Oh, that's not true. Yeah, that's not true at all.

Yeah. So it's like if you only wrote September. Well, if I had to only write. And lived a modest life. Yeah. If I, yes. If I had only written September, I do live a modest life because I'm a self-financed artist.

So any of these other ideas I get, it's that song and a few others that are carrying the whole thing, you know, along. But, yeah, I mean, I think if you wrote it by yourself, if you produced it, if you sang it, you know, may, and it was a gigantic hit that remained a classic, you could probably live a comfortable life.

But those things happening at the same time are so rare that, yeah. Michael Jackson, Greg Phil and Gates. No, I know that story. Now makes sense. Yeah. No, I know that story. So you got to own, you got to write it, you got to just own. You got to do everything.

And I was never in that position. You know, you're always a collaborator and one fourth of a. Yeah. And, you know, the publishing, like if you write for TV, that publishing's gone. you know yeah so and in earth went and fire those were my first song so I got less of a writer's share

than I should have and my publishing was owned by A&M so you know after everyone gets their cut oh yeah lunch money I see yeah so hmm oh okay yeah I see

okay gun to your head the three songs that you're I'm proud of stuff. I'm really salty. We didn't talk about all-American girls. We didn't talk about... Well, she's going to invite us to her house,

so maybe we can do a show live in North Hollywood. We can invite Jennifer Lewis, Lily Thomas. Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. I'm getting emotional. I said Lily Thompson. Are you leaving us to go living here house?

I would like to do that. She lives really close to me. Yes. So I'll meet y'all there. You got to make it happen. Okay. We'll see you when you're out there. No, but we're going to do it this year.

We're really going to lose. I'm ready. Well, I thank you. Thank you. This is, wow, I could forever. Well, I'm so impressed with what you know. I always knew that you knew a lot of stuff, but you were digging him out from the bottom.

Greg didn't warn you? I'm really, well, listen, Boss Bill and Fonticelo and unpaid bill, you missed a doozy today. Like, I feel like I'm the least knowledgeable of the six of us on the show. Wow. That's some bullshit. feel like that.

No, I mean, if Bill and Fonte were here, I barely get a worded. Well, yeah, Fonte would take, yeah, he would have took it. I mean, they'd be freaking out over, you know, oh, God, you wrote, I should have loved you. Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ, that should have been a continued. Yeah, you know who the bass player was? Randy. Yes, okay.

And Randy was 17 years old. Yeah. Randy Jackson. Oh, we'll have him on the show coming up, too. Yeah, it was 17 years old when he first played that. And he sounds so much like Bernard Edwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was conscious, too.

I think we were talking about that. She, yeah. It felt like a she grew. Yeah. All right. Anyway, I thank you very much for coming on. Ladies and gentlemen, Alie will have a question. Up to the first of three.

Legendary status right here. Songwriter Hall of Fame, 2018. Laia's new best friend. Yes. And I'm not going to make it into the Hall of Fame. We've lost Laia to Allie's world. So it was nice knowing you. Nice knowing you, too.

Bye, Laia. Bye, Lee. Hello. Anyway, this is Questlove and Quest Love Supreme. We'll see you on the next go-round. I'll see you. Quest Love Supreme is a production of I-Hart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

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