The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Bootsy Collins (Part 1)

Episode Date: August 17, 2020

In part 1 of 2, the legendary master of funk Bootsy Collins talks about finding his voice, the madness of working with James Brown and how a life-changing visit with Fela Kuti set him on a new path. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to QLS Classic Episode 57, Bootsie Collins, from November 2017.

One of the most colorful creative forces and music, Bootsie Collins came into James Brown's life in the nick of time and gave him a burst of energy. He would later take all that energy and help George Clinton build the almighty P-Funk Empire. The stories are outrageous, y'all. So please enjoy QLS Classic. With the baby buzbo of all baby bumba, Bootsiella, y'all. All right, enjoy. The Supreme a Roll Roll Call. Yeah, and I am shy.

Yeah. Don't play him cheat. Yeah. Don't let him cry. Roca. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima, roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, suprema, roll call. My name is Fonte.

Yeah. And I must confess. Yeah. The answer to the question is very yes. Roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, subprima, rocong. Suprima, sub, sub. The name is sugar, baby.

Yeah. That ain't no joke, yo. I got a theory, baby. Yeah. About Pinocchio. Rocahn. Supremma, Subrema,

So, Supremma, Roe Kong. Supremma, Subrema, Rocahn. They call me Boss Bill. Yeah. Not the friendly ghost. Yeah.

But the Holy Ghost. Rocawn. Suprema, Subima, Subrema, So, Supremma, Roca. Supremea Roecom.

Suprema, Submma, Suprema, Roll Call. Yes, Lae am. Yeah. So ready for Bootsie. Yeah. I got my Monty's and my sweet love.

Yeah. Ah. Roll call. Supremma. My God. Supremma. Supreme. Supreme.

What? Yeah. All the name is Bootsie, baby. Yeah. And I got a request. Roll call. Supremma. Suprima,

Roecon. What? What? Suprema roll call Suprema Subrama role call Suprema Best roll call

Yeah Yeah That might have been the best one That Trump's Charlie Wilson Yeah Oh So ladies and gentlemen Our guest today

In my honest opinion is the spiritual epicenter Of postmodern black music Oh my God That's a lot to No but listen Listen

That's a lot to live up to Because, I mean, Bouti Collins, in my opinion, is a bridge. Like, he ushered James Brown. All right, all right. No, no, absolutely. I know what you're going to say. His young blood energy gave James Brown new life for the 70s. And basically, for that much, you know, because of sampling technology, 80s, 90s, and so forth.

Not to mention him copilotling, copilotine. Yes, cohabitation. As co-pilot of the mothership with George Clinton, you know, expanding our minds and pushing the boundaries of funk music and, dare I say it, Afro-Futurist ideas and creativity into millions. And not to mention, I mean, he's pretty much on the the Mount Rushmore of G-Funkology. No, absolutely.

No exaggeration. There's not much more to say than that. Welcome the one and only Bouti Collins to Questlove Supreme. Yes. Wow. Yes. Like I said before, I got one request. What did you got, bro?

Request love, baby. You're going to add that to the show, I'll tell you that right now. I think I might change that to, to, you know, You know, Request Love Supreme. Yeah. You know what? Okay, so I know most of our guests that come here. And, of course, that, you know, we've known each other for a long time.

But there's one question I never asked you. Yeah. Who, how did you get your name? Oh, that's easy, man. Mama looked at me and she told me that I look like a bootsie. Really? Yeah. And I, you know, I started to say, well,

Can you tell me what a Bootsie look like? You know, and then something stopped me and said, well, you see how deep she is. So leave that alone. I just left it alone. Is Bootsie on your birth certificate? No. Okay. Okay.

Well, actually, it was added. But she just called me Bootsie. And just stuck? Stuck. Everybody started calling me Bootsie. That was it. And forever. Yeah.

Okay. I assume that you're a Cincinnati resident, correct? Yeah, yeah. You're born in Cincinnati. Born in Cincinnati, you know, didn't actually, well, at first we did a lot of work in Cincinnati at the King, you know, King Records. That's where we actually got started with all the different groups and stuff that were recording there. And then finally with James Brown. So what was your childhood like?

in that city? Did your parents migrate to Cincinnati? Was the entire Carlins family from? Yeah. Well, I didn't get to know my dad, but my mother, she was from Tennessee, Pulaski, Tennessee, and then she came to Cincinnati, her and a couple of her sisters. And I kind of grew up with my cousins.

We all lived in one house, and it was pretty much ladies, you know. And so, you know, ladies with the kids. And so, you know, I kind of grew up. We was just having a blast. I mean, it was just fun time, you know, not having nothing. You know, everybody's used to that. Fonk is making something out of nothing. So, you know, it's like whatever we had, we dealt with it.

Well, assuming that you were a child in the 50s. Yeah. You're so timeless. I don't even know what your age is. Like, you still might be 24 years old as far as I'm concerned. Oh, come on, Corey. But growing up in... I still might be come on, man.

You pretty much... But not, you haven't aged. You haven't aged. So I know that for a lot of the pioneers of funk and soul that were from down south, yeah. their stories are definitely much more harsh. You know, James Brown's story, of course. Yeah, yeah.

That's typical pretty much of anyone that live below the Mason Dixon line. Right. But because you're kind of part of the baby boom generation that had, you know, that grew up in the Midwest and there were factories and jobs and all those things. Like, was your childhood similar? Like, was there still danger elements? Oh, man. I mean, it was all around us. So Ohio was always still Ohio?

Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, you know, it was all around us, you know. But we kind of came with, I guess, a new twist. The same twist you was talking about when we bought that new energy to James Brown. I think that's kind of the way we came up. We refused to go with how deep it actually was. So at that particular time, we were going with it was deep. We was in the riots.

I was actually a part of all that. The Black Panthers used to come down on the corner about a block from us. I mean, we was into all of that. But at the same time, it kind of, just like George Clinton and I did with Parliament Funkadelic, all of that deep stuff was going on, but we refused to react like that. In other words, we made a little humor. about it where it was humorous enough

not to be like taken like oh well they laughing about it you know I mean so it was a kind of silly serious kind of thing well sometimes you got to laugh about it yeah and that's kind of the way we came up with our situation as deep

as the situations was so how was music introduced to you oh my brother my brother catfish How much older was he? He was eight years older. I was like... Really?

Yeah. I thought you guys were like close in age. I didn't know he was your big brother. Oh, he's my big... Yeah, he's definitely... That's the only man figure I had in the house that I looked up to that, you know, that I kind of wanted to be like, you know? Well, not even kind of. I wanted to be like it.

So describe catfish. How do he get the name catfish? Oh, I wore him out, man. I mean, you know, I mean, he looked like a catfish. I mean, you know, you look at him. You know, he had these whisk, you know, these little whisker things going on. And he had these big eyes, you know, and he just looked like a catfish, man. Wait.

See, I'm having, because most of these characters were introduced to me via James Brown. Right, right, right. I'm thinking like, yo, they got some funky nicknames. Like, I thought he had catfish sandwiches in his luggage or stuff like that. No, man. He looked like one. He just teased it. Well, you know, now.

I'm finally realizing I understand what my mother said when she said I look like a booty. Whatever that was, you know, I still don't know what a booty looked like. Yeah, yeah. But then when I look at it, I just said because he looked like a catfish. And that's the truth. I mean, there's no other explanation. He looked like a catfish, you know. Did he appreciate this nickname early?

Oh, he loved it. He loved it. pretty much anybody that I would nickname, I mean, they wind up loving it. Babyface. And so, you know, that was a thing that I did. I always came up with when I saw a person and, you know, if something hit me like, oh, you know.

I'm ready. Yeah. He was looking at me. I thought it was a name in ceremony. I was like, what is my name for? Tigs. Like, O bit? Okay.

Melody, baby. Yes, yes. So, you know, and that's the way it all went down, you know. It was like Catfish kind of brought the bands, you know, to the house. And we had like a two room house. But, you know, my mother, she was into whatever we were into. And music, you know, she loved it. She loved, you know, that we were into music.

And so Catfish would have the girls and, you know, the bands all around the house. And I'm like nine years old, so I'm loving it. You know, I'm like, okay, I got to learn how to play, you know. And so I started putting two and two together. I don't have a guitar. I don't have no way of getting anything. So when my brother leaves to go on the paper route, I'll just steal his guitar for a moment. But was he a don't touch my guitar type?

Oh, he was definitely a, don't you ever, you know, and don't never let me catch you with it. You know, so I always knew when I get his guitar out of the, you know, out of the case to put it back exactly. Test you? Oh, did he test me? Put a pick there, d-2 the strings. He tested me and busted me. You know, all it took was one time. When he busted me one time, I knew then that I had to get myself a guitar, you know,

because he woke me out. It wasn't even I was nine years old. He waved me out like I was a man. So I said, okay, I got to get me a guitar. And so I started doing my own paper route. I got me a paper route job. Was he not even the least bit curious if you could actually play or the Joe Jackson? You know how big brothers, you know how big brothers treat.

treat little sny, those long-haired suckers. Well, that's the way I was treated, you know, and I'm older than all these people in the room, but, you know, yeah, I get it. Why are you pointing at me? I'm pointing to all of you.

That's how I get treated. But, you know, he, you know, he, first of all, he didn't think I was serious because, you know, it's like the little young, you know, he's going to change his mind next week, you know, but I tricked him because, you know, once I got locked in, like, this,

is what I want to do. And, you know, and I just start showing people that's what I want to do. And Catfish was the last one that realized I was serious. You know, his drummer named Ranchi was the baddest cat in Cincinnati, man. I mean, and he embraced me, you know, and he allowed me to come into their rehearsals. Cat was like, oh, man, get that man out of here. You know, but Ranchi embraced me, man. and I used to stand there and watching play, you know,

and while listening to the guitars and, you know, and the band thing was just such a, it was such a big deal back then, you know. What would they play at the time? Like, what type of? It was playing like, what year was this? This is like 60, what is it? It's like 60, 1960, 61.

You know, I was born in 51, so nine years out, after that is what, like 60? 60. 61. Yeah, yeah. So it's around in that time. So right before the British invasion. Right, right. Right, right. So we was listening to Lonnie Mac. Dang, man,

it was so, so much stuff. So much of the instrumental kind of music stuff. Curtis, King Curtis, Miles Davis. I mean, you name it. I mean, you know, all of that stuff was, you know, then you had the Motown thing that was, you know, that was hot, beginning

to be hot. And, you know. So was he playing like sop hops and those things like area, like were these bands, was your brother playing in? Yeah. Yeah. Every club you can think of, I mean, the mugs was playing in. Because that's what time it was then, you know, it was like everybody was playing clubs.

You know, it was more about. that's how I met as many musicians as I met because I was always around. I always was watching, you know, and that's how I kind of picked up on, you know, certain things and how to play and all of that because I didn't go to school for it. So when he, how old were you when he realized, like,

okay, you're good enough? Well, what was deep was I got a chance to play with him that was my dream. You know, even before playing with James or anybody, you know, I wanted to play with my brother because I wanted to prove to him that I was worthy. Yeah, worthy. You know, yeah, seriously.

You know. It worked. It worked big time. I mean, you know, that one time I played with him. And what happened was he was called to do a gig, a weekend gig, and a bass player couldn't show up. So, you know, I was like, yes, this is my chance, you know. And he was like, oh, no, you know, he's like, no, not you.

You know, I'm going to get me a bass player, but it ain't going to be you. You know, so I'm like, oh, man, oh, man. So he kept trying to get the bass player, you know, wasn't written. It wasn't written. So he said, okay, man. He said, but you ain't even got no bass. And I'm like, well, if you can get me four strings, I'll turn this guitar.

I had a $29,9 guitar, silver tone. Never will forget it. James Brown blasted me out. I'll tell you about that too. But I said, you give me four strings. I'm going to turn this into a bass. This is going to be my bass. He said, okay, I get you four string.

It better sound good. I was like, it's going to be the bomb. So he gave me four strings. I put it on that guitar. And that night, played the gig I mean it was about the size of this room full of people

I mean everybody was drunk as a skunk okay the playboy club you got the upper end playboy right then you got the rat hole playboy guess which one we play that yeah it was double rat hole

yeah it was double rat oh so so we playing I mean I got mugs all up in my face because I'm the youngest mug up there. So it's like, and I, you know, they say I sounded pretty good. So, you know, I had to go with that. They're all up in my face. And my brother's standing back there.

He's playing the lead and he's watching. You know, I didn't know he was watching me like that. But after the gig, it was like, okay, man, you know, you're going to be the new bass player. You were that good. Damn. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I didn't know what I was doing.

But, you know. He liked it. And that was the first time he liked anything that I did. So I was like, yeah. And from that day on, we played together from then on. You know, from then on. Your brother's guitar technique. Yeah.

Probably, I'm next to Chank Nolan. Yeah. And Cheese Martin. Yeah. And James Brown's arsenal, his guitar playing is, like, was he always that good and that precise with his rhythm? Always, always. George, to this day, would tell you that, you know, I mean, forget the drum machine, you know, timing. This boy was just so, you know, his timing was so, so much better than mine.

You know, and both of us had pretty, you know, a pretty good time. but his was like exceptional you know he can turn around everything can go off that the PA everything and cat will still be having that thing going you know and Joe and that happened to us a few times a fuse is blowing and yeah yeah and George just turn around start smiling and just you know because you got catfish that ain't going to stop you know and if you move he ain't going nowhere you He don't get emotionally upset or emotionally involved. He's just grooving. You know, he's doing his thing.

And once he gets locked, it's on. See, I knew his technique with timing was super important. Catfish is probably his most iconic rhythm, in my opinion, is get on up, get into it, get involved. The infamous... Right. Which never. I mean, I've heard a gazillion live versions of that.

Yeah. And he's the anchor. Yeah. More than James' drummers, more than anything. Like, that's the driving rhythm of that song. You're right. You're right. Yeah, I just always, like, did he practice a lot or was it just like?

He practiced a lot, but it was just a natural thing to him. He was chewing his gun. Every time he's seen that, my. Yeah. He's chewing his gun and hitting the guitar, you know. And, you know, he first made his guitar, you know, because he was, he went to Bloom Jr. High, and they had a thing, a wood shop, you know, and he made his first guitar by hand, and he put these fishing strings on it.

You know, this was before he knew what to do. You know, he just wanted to get. guitar, you know, and he made his own guitar and put fishing strings on it. And wasn't nothing happening. Once he found out wasn't nothing happening, then he realized he needed a guitar, you know, and once he got his first guitar, it was on. It was on. Did he ever figure out how to make one after he, since he bought one? Did he ever go back to it? Because that's kind of fascinating. Yeah, he didn't go back to that. You know, yeah, he didn't go back to that. You know, yeah, he didn't go back to that because, you know, it didn't take too long after he started playing that I got, we got together.

And the next thing, you know, I mean, things just start. No time. Yeah, it started having it, you know. And, you know, I like people like Roger, Roger Trowman, Sugarfoot, all of us kind of played in the same circle, you know, in the same club. and all the band. It was so many bands. Why were there so many? Okay, so our listeners should know that

Cincinnati is kind of regarded as the funk capital of the United States. I mean, Ohio is regarded as the funk epicenter. But Cincinnati in particular, why were there so many bands in Cincinnati? And is it the effect of

King Records and James Brown's operation being there and him recording at the time? I personally think that that had a lot to do with it because it made young musicians want to be like, you know, these people that's recording all this stuff in the, you know, in the studio. Would he live there or would he, like, how often would you see James Brown on the streets? Oh, man. And this before you joined him, I mean, like.

He would just random, it was a random thing where he come in. he'd stay two or three days sometimes a week you know uh with the band and you know our thing was we were so hyped on the band that they were our heroes because james was so out of reach that we just knew we weren't going to meet him you know so you know our thing was if we can only meet the band you know fred you know uh maceo yeah Come on, man. Jabbo, you know, if we can meet, and that was, our dream came true. But first we met Bobby Bird, who treated us like, you know, we were somebody.

And nobody knew us. Nobody knew us, you know. Is that when you were the houseguests or? No, that was before. This is like pacemakers, yeah. Okay. Yeah, this is, I mean, nobody knew what was happening. And we, first we met the DAPs, you know, and so we used to all be in that same circle.

And so, you know, one thing kind of sparked off of another, you know, next thing you know, after the DAPs start recording over the king, some kind of way, oh, I'll tell you exactly how. Charles Sparland came down to hear us playing at a club and he was like man the energy y'all, Cascat, we need that old King records and he was the A&R guy and so he invited us over because he wanted us to be his backup band for his recordings

and any production stuff that he does over in King and so we agree, you know, let's do it because we hadn't never been in no studio You know, not recording. You know, so we got a chance to start recording with him. Once we started recording with him, then Henry Glover and Gene Red hit on us, you know, about recording with, you know, Arthur Prysock, Bill Doggett, Hank Ballet.

So we was all on those records. Wait, so that's, do, do, do, is that you on Honkinton? Yeah. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. Well, Bill Dogger and then sold trees by Arthur Priceock. Hank Ballard.

We actually went on the road with Hank Ballard. We went on the road with him before. Yeah. Of course that's you. Because you play half-app notes. Yeah. Oh, you're ready. So that's, who's the rhythm section?

You and who's drumming? Damn, that's fun. I ain't heard that since we did. Are you serious? Yeah, I don't listen to. See, to us, because it's been sampled, like it's something totally different. It's the beat nuts.

Are you ready? Right, but it's still, even in B-Boy circles, like that has been played millions of, you know, times in the last 20 years. People always ask me about songs that I played on and then I say, well, play it for me. Yeah, because when you finish that sentence, I don't listen to what?

You don't listen to your music. No, I don't listen to myself. People don't do that. I don't play with myself. I don't. Sometimes it could be healthy. Okay. All right.

I mean, you know. You know. No, I just, you know, it was always so much coming in that I never had time to just take a break and listen to what I've did, what I've done. Because I was never interested in what I've done. It was always what's coming next. Because I always had something coming in.

You know, and I was, I tell you what it was. I was so full of it. Now, whatever that it was, I was full of it. I mean, full of it. You know, because, you know, we used to hang with the brothers on the car. That was our whole thing. Music got a chance to take us out of that and give us a place where we can,

crack on ourselves. You know, it's like looking in the mirror and laughing at yourself. It's like, it gave us a chance to do that with ourselves, you know, and I just happened to run into somebody that liked that approach, George, you know. Now, James was serious. That boy was serious. You know, so he kind of helped me because he was like a father figure that wanted me to be a certain way.

Discipline? Yeah. And I needed it. You know, we're just coming off the streets with the riots, you know, throwing Malatoff cocktail stealing, you know, and we was a part of all that. And James reached in, pulled us off the street, put us in the band, and the next thing you know, man, we were in Africa with James Brown. And their mugs over there, bowing down like we somebody.

And we're saying to us, say, damn, we just played. benefits in the clubs and they made no money. You know, now we're with Jane Brown, you know. So it hit us like that. And we didn't have, just like the songs you're talking about, do I go back and listen? I never analyzed that part of how it felt with James Brown at that particular time. Because it was so unreal that I had no feelings. It was just deep.

Do you think it's also a danger? I, you know, I tend to avoid favorites of whatever my audience expects because maybe there's a fear that you can't replicate that or do it again. I mean, like, okay, I know that in your job of doing concerts, yes, you have to do Boutzilla. You got to do, you know, Hollywood squares or whatever. but just in terms of sitting back and listening to it is it do you think it's more of a psychological thing of because a lot of artists refuse to listen to their recorded work you know because it just

it might be too haunting of an earlier time well you know what I think that's got something to do with it now but but when I was coming up I was you know I was really too full of it to listen, go back and listen. You know, because I had made up in my mind, I wasn't going to be listening to radio. I wasn't going to be listening to how people do this and how people do that. Once I got on a path, it was like, I'm just listening to the universe and what they tell me, what they send me, you know, and that's actually, that's the way I was feeling and that's what was going on at that time. but after all of that time now it's like when I put stuff on it's like

you start filling those feelings you know it took all of that time though for me to get to this point you know to where it's like if I put it rather be on with you on that's going to take me all the way back to not only what we were doing on stage but where that actually came from in the first place and who I was talking to, you know, and then all of those feelings start coming up and it's like, wow, I don't want to feel that, you know. That's understandable because to us, you know,

I think of a barbecue if I hear body slam, you know, my uncle's barbecue, you know. But for you, you could have been in a car accident a week before you recorded those vocals. I'm going to tell you exactly where that came from. I was on the way to the studio. And what happened? A traffic jam.

Oh, I'm caught up there. This traffic jam. I was on the way to the studio to record that. And I was like, you know, and I was still coming up with, you know, okay, what's the, you know, I still come. So I kind of had to leave my mind. I always have my mind open because sometimes you don't get it until you right there on the mic. And then bam. there it is you know um but i was on the way to the studio to record body slam wow and i had

i got the lyrics you know i didn't know i was going to get the lyrics that quick because i you know i had still had to record the song right you know but then the lyrics came said i'm called up in i mean the whole the whole way i did it and everything came you know and i was like got it you know and and then when you get to the studio so you didn't have the luxury of um phones. Yeah, you didn't have that luxury, you know. So it was like you have to remember. I mean, that's why we used our brains. Now you don't have to use your brain like that. You got smart phones to do it all for you, you know, but, you know, we had to put stuff in there and rely on an instant recall. Now, what was I thinking about about this, you know, this song I was going to do,

you know, and you had to recall that, you know. And that was a, that was a, that was a, that was a, was the thing that musicians had back in those days that I think it's a lost art, you know, and you won't even be thinking about that. Well, you don't think about it too much. Now, no way. But five or ten more years, that's going to be, you know, brain is going to be useless as far as that. Thinking won't happen at all. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers,

researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out that in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2% that's TWO% on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day but just so y'all know I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode where we've discussed crack

so I'm starting to see there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now so Thank you finishing that sentence I don't think there's a more important year for black people

Really? Yeah for me it's one of the most important years for black people in American history Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts

or wherever you get your podcast Before I get to you, James Brown chapter, I just have to know, just in the battle the band situation and all those local bands. Who, what band unit scared you? Like, were the Ohio players officially? Ohio players. I mean, I had to finish the baddest boys in the world, as far as I was concerned. And as far as a lot of musicians, because anytime they would play anywhere, you know, it was like, the whole front line of seats would be nothing but musicians.

And they'll be there, they'd be there like this. You know, and everybody knew. It wasn't like everybody was trying to hide. You know, everybody knew. I mean, these are the baddest boys. And I'm going to tell you something else. When they started making records, that wasn't when they were really the bomb.

The bomb was one They didn't have no records And they just played in them clubs That's when they was Killers I mean them boys I mean You ain't never seen no show like this

You know And how old were they at the time They had to be like in their I say Late teens Early 20s So Sugarfoot always had that voice Always

Sugar boy just Yeah, like his... Well, he always had that voice, but he never used it like he used it on the records. Okay. You know, because it was always, they always had a singer that would do, you know, the singing part. Right. So, Sugar, you know, he had that voice, but he never used it like that because they always had a... Someone else's...

Yeah, somebody else singing, you know. Speaking of voice, all right, so we were working on a... project like 2003. I forget the project, but you played me a demo. You told me, he's like, yeah, of course, I had a dream about Jimmy Hendrix. And I want to play it for you. And you played me the song. And then I had one of those Bootsie kind of the thinking black man meme.

Yeah, yeah. Memed me point into his temple. I was like, hey, you know what? you kind of sound like Jimmy Hendricks. Not totally going over my head that your whole voice is embodying Jimmy Hendx. So how, what even gave you that thought to take on his, to continue to take the baton away? Well, you know he was my hero anyway. I mean, and, you know, I used to have.

this room where it was about okay say half of that half of this room from there to here and we're in a very small room right yeah very small and then pull the rest of the room all the way up to here okay so in that little box was my room and i had a black light i had a bid and and Incent, weed, LSD, you had me at black light, and an eight track. Okay. And that's, you know, that's what I played.

I played Jimmy Hendrix. Jimmy's poster was up over the bed, okay? And all you could see, when you walked in my room, all you could see was that poster, you smelt the incense and you smelt the weed. and that's what I did, you know. This is why I'm confused, though, Bootsie. Yeah.

The weed, the LSD, but your memory is remarkable. Like, I just help stoners. Yeah, yeah. What is, how, I don't. Well, it's just like I was saying how you retain stuff, and that was some kind of gift. Wow. I mean, because you really don't suppose to remember that kind of stuff.

Right. But I actually, the important stuff. okay that to me was the most important memory pretty much of all was to be able to remember that

and I won't let that go I won't let that go because it was one of the best times in my life you know I was finding myself I didn't know what the heck was going on

you know I'm sitting at listen to Howland Wolf Santana Jimmy I mean, Miles Davis, I mean, you name it. And I'm sitting there, well, not just sitting. I'm, you know, doing something, you know. And it's usually, you know, me, my guitar, or my bass.

And I'm just sitting there and I'm listening and I'm freaking out, you know. And it was always a good freak out. You know, it was always a good freak. That's a blessing. So besides, yeah, besides Ernie Isley, I just don't know another figure. in black music that was young at the time that really absorbed Jimmy's essence. And, you know, I guess in the beginning I was just led to think that he was so freakish and out there that the black community really didn't embrace him.

They didn't understand. They didn't understand. But how did it, you're in the inner city. How did it speak to you? It was my gift to not go with, you know, it. It's just like we was talking about the serious part of the blackness. And we took that and made not fun of it, but made it, you know, where you could kind of laugh about us partying on the mothership and, you know,

acting a fool and having a good time. So we had to kind of take the seriousness and show people that we can actually have fun with this. with ourselves. You know, we can actually laugh with ourselves instead of, you know, because we was making it through this deepness, you know,

with so much deepness going on. It's like, if we keep going this deep, everybody's going to be dead in a minute. I mean, because they're killing everybody. So we got to figure out a new approach. And it wasn't like we were sitting there analyzing the next approach.

You know, the one gave us certain talents. and we just brought it to the people, you know? It's just like we took the street drug rap and made it funny. You know, P-funk, the bomb. I mean, that's drug rap, you know? Now it's-uncut. Yeah, right?

Un-cut. That's all street drug rap. So can you describe, I'm glad your memory's there. Yeah, me too I want you Because I have so many questions About the day that Bobby Bird came to get you guys

Yeah To play with James Brown Which is essentially Your Your moment You know what question Let me Let me

I didn't finish on Jimmy Let me Let me just Let me just tell you Okay How that came about All right What happened was

we was in the studio George and I was in the studio recording Be My Beach Right And I was in that clowning around You know You know And I said yeah

Be my beach baby And George said Oh that's it man That's it And I was just clowning around You know And next thing I know George is like

Go ahead do that That's the voice And that is what is where it started. I was doing my invitation of Jimmy. Okay, so, um, my aunt. I'm sorry. Yes. So, well, yeah, I'm explaining to you. Okay. That, um, that because of, of, of financial reasons, uh, the team of James Brown, his band

decided that they were going to pull a, uh, a strike. We out, we out. A mutiny. The morning of a gig, I think it was around 11 in the morning, that we are not going to go on stage until you get the money straight that you owe us. Because he was a real Republican. Yeah. There you go. So James decided to call their bluff.

Oh. And he told his ace boom coon, Bobby Burt, his A.J to his O. A-C Oh, A-Say That was good enough You know what I'm saying Sports I'm bad with sports To get on the Learjet

The private plane And go to Cincinnati And go grab them kids Yeah And put them on the plane And bring them down here So come showtime Now

So they broke the line Y'all broke the strike line Y'all I'm all explaining So tell me I got My question was What parent

in their right mind would just let their teenage kids like go with James Brown. All right, I'm out. How teenage? What you mean? He was 19. You were 19 at this time, right? So first of all, who is it? And how old were you guys?

I would assume that your brother was the oldest, right? Right. And if he's eight, yeah, he's 27. Yeah. Okay, so give me everything. What time did Bobby Bird come to the club and tell you guys? Stop what you're doing. Come with me.

Well, actually, he called first. And we was playing a benefit. And, you know, we would get whatever coming the door. And then nobody knew us. I mean, you know, so it was pretty much, you know, the fam, you know. And so we weren't really getting no benefit. I mean, as far as no money. So when Bobby Carl, you know, I thought he was joking.

You know, like, yeah. What did he say? He said, Mr. Brown. want y'all to come down here and, you know, and play on the show, you know. So it wasn't like he wants y'all to come down here and play with him. It's like he wants y'all to come down here and play on the show. So it was like, oh, man, come on, man. You know, you know, yeah, man, I'm coming to get you.

I'm coming to get you in 45 minutes on James Learjet. And so y'all just be ready, you know. Damn. And I'm like, okay. So I go back, I hang up, because I'm still thinking he's joking, but I go back and tell the boys, you know, I tell Kat, you know, like Bobby, I just got out of the phone with Bird. And he said, James wanted us to come down and play on the show.

And so everybody's eyes lit up, you know, it's like, oh, man, he got to be joking. It's like, no, man. I say, he said, well, you better go tell Mama, you know, because, you know, Mama, you know, You know, Mama ain't going for that, you know. And I said, well, if you go, I know she won't have a problem with it, you know. So call Mama and, you know, I asked her. I said, Mama, you know, we got an offer to go down here play, you know, on James Show. Where is the gig?

Oh, where it was Columbus, Georgia. And you're in Cincinnati. I'm in Cincinnati. How far is that flight-wise? Like, you could probably make that move like two hours maybe? I mean, now. So what time is it when you get the car? He had a Learjet.

I mean, it go fast. I never understood the leered part. That means faster. I thought it was just private. No, no. They don't fool around. Them boys go straight up into the air. They don't, you know, they don't.

James Brown was that famous back then? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, I just got to maybe private jet status. Like, yeah. Yeah, no, he was that famous, you know. And I got, you know, that was the first time we ever got on a plane, you know. So he actually came, Bobby Bird and, you know.

What time was it? Let's see, what time was it? Now, see, that's what my memory. I wasn't, I wasn't clocking in on time. It was two 52 in the afternoon. What was he winner? No, no. I'm just thinking how do they make the gig in time.

I'll give it right to tell you. So it had to be, it had to be around, I would say, at least six, seven, somewhere around in there. Wow. And when he actually came and got us, we went straight into the limo, straight to the plane, straight up in the air. It wasn't no fooling around. What about luggage and your...

Oh, we just took our instruments. You know, that green base I was telling you, that $29, that's what I had. Wow. And I'll tell you about, remind me to tell you about what James thought about that base. Okay. All right. So, so we, we get there, okay? We land, we get there, we go to the auditorium.

And then we hear all this ruckold. going on, riding kind of vibe, which we were used to, but it's like we didn't realize it was directed at us, you know, and, you know, because the band is late. Well, there the band is, and they pointing at us. And we like, we didn't know, we didn't even know we was walking into that. Did y'all walk into the front door backstage? Well, we was getting ready to walk in the front door. Wait, you were to walk into, James Brown's famous enough to be in the theater. Yeah.

They didn't think, hey, let's go through the backstage door. Not yet. Not first. They was just going to, you know, they wanted to show the people that the band had a ride because they didn't want to put it on James. Okay. It's the band's fault. Oh.

You know, now see, we ain't even had to tell you it's the band's fault because it didn't come through the front door, you know. And we fools. James is sneaky. I mean, we fool, we don't know. We don't even know that we're actually playing with James Brown. He didn't tell you that? They told us that we were coming to play on James show.

But wait a minute. You mean doing that two-hour flight? No, no. Bird's not going over parts and none of that stuff? James told Bird. This is what I'm guessing, that he better not say nothing about. They coming, you know, coming down here to play with me. Just go get them.

that was that was you know that's what that was my take okay and then then i found out my take was the truth when i got down there and we walked through start walking through the band once we once we went around because we couldn't come through the front they was too deep they was going to start some some serious you know so bird took us around to the stage door we went in the stage door and the next thing you know we started looking around and the vibe as soon as we got in the door the vibe changed you know it like jumped on us

like okay something is wrong we didn't know what it was but it's like something is wrong and then I looked over and I saw Fred and Cush

Look at you like No no okay I'm not looking at me they still arguing at James Oh They are in and James. You know, at short, you know what James is. Well, they're looking down at him.

And it's like, you know, to me it looked like they was getting ready to choking. Oh. Or do something, you know. And I was like, what is that all about? He was like, oh, oh, yeah, I was going to tell y'all. Oh, wow. I was going to tell you. I was going to tell you.

That's why I wanted to get y'all back in here. And come on, we need to go into James Brown. dressing room because we need to talk. So he takes us back in James Brown dressing room. Next thing you know, James comes in, you know. Fellas, fellas. Yeah. Yeah. Glad y'all made it.

You know, I need y'all to play my set tonight. And we're like, huh? You know, we ain't. rehearsed. I thought we was going to open it. Now, son, y'all playing on the James Brown show. Y'all playing tonight. And I said, well, how are we going to know what to play? He said, well, when I do like this in,

I'm going to call out the song, cold sweat. And that's the way we did it. I love the way he assumed y'all do it. I love it. I got a question. Y'all know DJs. Play this shit. All right. Two questions.

Was his music so inescapable that you guys as a unit just knew it like you knew Mary had a little limb? Yeah. Yeah. What it was was at that time you got to realize that James was the hottest mug, you know, black performer. It was. I mean, and all the bands, every band knew his stuff, you know. or at least attempted to play. That's something that would never happen again.

Do you know how cocky that is like I knew they knew my material? Yeah. Like who is that of today? No one. That can never happen. That would never happen again. Not only will it never happen again, but when I get with these artists, like Stevie Wonder don't know half his songs now.

Right. Like it's the opposite. We've got to remind them. Shaka Khan don't remember. You know what I mean? It's the opposite. Yeah. And then if I said play this Beyonce song right now.

Nah. All right. I'll fake it until I make it. So, okay. And my second question is that funk wasn't invented yet. Right. Right. You guys have yet to do sex machine is a week later.

Right. So like literally a week later. Yeah. And so the thing is, is that the transformation of his music from the suit and tie soul thing to the gritty down and dirty function how

first of all did the audience buy it oh they freaking loved it they loved it and how did you interpret those songs like did you just approximate it as his band would have done it well you got to understand too that we needed to be polished

you know I mean we came in with what we came in with and that's raw energy raw talent which needed to be put on the one as james would call it and you know me not being a like a taught bass player i really didn't know the the purpose of the base other than you know just play these low notes you know but i played them like it was a guitar because that's what I learned on. And James was responsible for telling me that, all right, son, look in. Look at in.

Now, I love all that stuff you're doing that, son. I love it. I love it. But the only thing you got to do, if you're going to play with the James Brown show, you got to give me the one. That's what I need, son. I need the one.

You can play all that other stuff. but I need the one. Can you hit me with the one? That's where the one come from. So I learned the one. The one was birthed? The one was birth. What?

Okay. Every member of the roots, I want you to listen to this again. Can you say it again? It's all about the one. There are no... Can we explain to this is what the one is? It's an establishing pulse. Yeah.

In music, you've got to have... a four count. One, two, three, four. Now, for soul music, even though the emphasis is on, you might hear the snare on the tune of four. One, two, three, four, one, two. It's that, boom, what is first? That is what hits you. And, oh my God, what's wrong my voice? Dairy. Dairy. What is that? Dairy. Okay, okay, okay. And the thing is

is that it's a certain repetition. Like, African drum repetition. There's joy in repetition. I'm just avoiding saying that. I was trying to think of like, I don't want nobody to tell me nothing. I don't want nobody to give me nothing. Like the one is less.

How do you not have a one? I don't understand how you don't have a one. Like you got to start somewhere. So how was... Distortion and static doesn't have a one. Yeah. Which is why. Doon, dun, dun, that one, right?

Right, right. I'll give you a very example. Well, here's weird. This is what's weird. Technically, 7779311 doesn't have a one? Yeah. Okay, I'll even make it easier for you. The whisper song by the Yinyang twins doesn't have...

It just starts... Well, most snap music has no hi-hat. You need a metronome. You need to... something that establishes the pace of a song. You need a metronome. Now, you know, not every song is going to have a like a one, two, three, four, but it's insinuated in your head. Right. Yeah. You don't realize it, but you're being hypnotized every time a loop happens. So think James Brown's music really isn't a linear structure of song. Like, think of like John

Coltrane or jazz. Jazz is linear. James Brown is circular. And he has a whole bunch of people playing repeated notes all over again. Yeah. P-Funk is even crazier because they'll have counter stuff. Yeah, and counter melodies. Yeah. But repeating the same thing over again. Yeah.

So by the seventh minute, like, don't stop do you get enough? You remember how shit just breaks down to the end? It's just stuff playing over and over and over again. Shake your body down to the ground. Another example. And that's a loop. That's like a one bar. Yeah, there's no.

Boom, boom, boom. boom boom bu boom boom boom bump that's it like that's the song so the one is just it's it's it needs to be super obvious sometimes and you know with my band you know and this this is the one downfall of worshiping j dilla because he kind of throws out the manual of of meat and potato's rhythm yeah and it's causing a lot of like Thunder Cat, like Thunder Cat, Chris Dave, a lot of post Jay Dilla disciples to just

disregard numbers. I call them the time stretching drummers. That sounds almost sad, though. I mean, no, it's like Thelonious Monks, sort of having subnotes. I mean, it's creative. But the thing is, is I believe that you should

study the Old Testament, master it, and then you expand. You learn the rules. before you break them. Right. Now you just got cats coming and breaking the rules and then like, but no foundation. But even still, when you listen to like Chris Dave, he still comes back to the one. Well, Chris is a genius.

But he has a lot of disciples that are just like watching his YouTube videos and then just going from that. But, you know, and it's the one is important. The one is, it's mean potatoes. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. On my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.

I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's something really cool about the sex machine. session that I guess, well, Boss Bill and I were alerted to it because we have the the Pro Tools, the Master Reel.

And I do. Do we not occasionally teach at NYU? But I don't have the Sex Machine rules? Well, you know, we share everything. I mean, come on now. Like I have them and you rent them sometimes. What kind of yours is maybe mine. But my, the point was that you guys did two takes of it.

And the kind of in-between banner, I guess there's like a two or three-minute break between take one, which was the master take. Right, right. And take two, which was like, let's just get a second one for safety's sake. And every James Brown expert that's ever heard that, their jaw dropped because their jaw dropped simply because of the nurturing kind of tender father-like way that he's communicating with you guys. Yeah.

Whereas with anyone else, he holl it. Either Ron the engineer or, you know, whatever. He's just like, nah, man, that was wrong. And even in, you know, give it up or turn to loose, you hear him like, starting all over again, like in the song, you know, that sort of thing. But he actually stops this, no, no, no, no, no, do it again. You can make it work. You know, no, you're doing good.

You're doing good. Just, they've never heard James Brown actually be nice. Yeah, that's the thing. So was Sex Machine the first time that you guys were in the studio or like, was that your first professional? You mean with James or? Well, I know that was your first with James. Was that your first with James? Actually, no.

What was before that? What was the first time I played with James, of course he didn't use it, but his band took a break while they were recording Lick and Stick. Okay. Wow. And, yeah, most of my don't know nothing about this one. Yes, we do. Yeah, I know Lik Stee. No, I mean, the story.

Okay. And so his band went on a break and James get this horrific idea. idea. And, you know, we outside, you know, me and my brother, you know, the band. We outside, always outside, waiting on a chance to get in because they didn't let nobody in. You know, it was like, we don't care who you are. You know, nobody's coming in, but James and who he needs. And so his band. Wait, y'all would just be outside? Outside the studio, hanging. Like listening? Listening, hanging. Like the cowboy downstairs. Wait, right.

I mean, every time James came to Cincinnati, we was there. And so, you know, he said, man, I know boozing them out there. Go out there and get boozy. Next thing I know, they opened the door. Burr said, pussy, come on in it. And we were shocked. We was shocked. It's like the golden ticket.

We was shocked, but at the same time, we was all waiting for that, you know. Because before that, he ain't never called us in the studio, you know. So he called us in. I want you to play this part for me. It goes something like this. I say, you mean, do. Do you mean, do, do, do, do, do.

Yeah, son, that's it. That's what I'm talking. Yo. What? Yeah. That's what he is. Describe a session. That's how songs would get made.

He would just sing something. You would have to decipher what he really was. It was like you from here, America, you go to Japan, and they don't have no idea on what the hell you talking about. But if you play it in music, they can sing it. Okay. So James' whole thing is when he's communicating with you, you don't know what the hell he's talking about. Sounds so African. That's crazy.

So that's what you're going on. Oh, you mean, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, yeah, son, that's what I'm talking. I'm like, glad I thought of it. That's the way it works. Oh, my God. And you, and you was glad he thought of it, too.

Because his being in his presence That was enough of me And then the mugs tell me You mean you didn't get paid for that Get paid You know we wasn't thinking about getting paid You mean your name ain't a name on what You know

We was just so Inspired Lifted from being in this cat's present What nobody's thing At that time You know You got to remember what time that was you know that was like you know uh writers publishing all that stuff was unheard of for musicians

you know you'd be lucky to come in and they give you uh 25 or 30 dollars for a session you know and don't even speak about uh you don't wrote a bass part or you don't or jabbo done came up with a drum part or clack it no that belonged to jay Brown. You know, could nobody tell Clyde to play that play that funky drama or whatever? Yeah.

Play that funky drummer like this in. Let me show you how I'd go. And James used to do that. Let me show you how to go. And he'd get on there and play some four-four. Clyde told me. He would get on the drums and play to him. There ain't nothing happening. But see, the thing is

I don't want to make it sound like, you know, he was that far gone. He wasn't gone at all. He knew what he wanted. But you had to give it to him. Right. You know, you had to, he knew it when he heard it, you know. It's like, you know, if you didn't play it right, no, no, no, son, you ain't got it. No, no, no, that ain't going to work.

Nah, no, no. He'll give it to you like that. but if you play it, if you play what he wants to hear, yeah, that's it, son, that's it. So I know that you guys were

wet behind the ears, just being thrown in the situation. Just to say the least. So what were the, because Alan Leeds told me that there was a lot of rigorous hours of rehearsing. Oh, oh, man.

What were the rehearsals like? And why did Clyde and Jabbao cross the picket line? Or? Oh, you mean come back? Yes. You know what? I never even thought about that. And I didn't ever look at it like they crossed the picket line.

It was like, you know. Well, the band left and then Clyde stayed. Yeah, but he came back. Clyde came back. Okay. He didn't actually leave when the band left. He came back about maybe a couple weeks after we started getting things together. Okay.

Jabbo is the one that didn't leave. He stayed. So, you know, but Jabbo was that kind of loyalty guy that, you know, he was going to, he was kind of like Bird, Bobby Bird. He wasn't going to leave James, you know. At that particular time, it was like. you know, Jabbo was like, this is it, you know. And he was the, he was the foundation for us because he was the only one, well, him and Bobby Bird was the only one that was there the first couple of weeks that we could rely on,

you know, that kept us steady. That's another question. because your style is your James Brown style then was pretty much James Jameson on steroids Right right I mean you're going all over And I know you're saying like James is one of that one

You can do all that other stuff Yeah But Someone had to be the bad guy To say You're playing too much Like you guys are virtuoso musicians Yeah

But who's the person that has to reel it in You're playing too much Just give me James would James would be the bad guy he didn't need no help on that it was like but he liked what we was doing

you know he just liked it I mean we heard all of the stories and we you know we would see how he treated the other guys but with us just like you were saying about that story about how he nurtured us you know, that's the kind of father figure he was us. Finding us, no.

Finding us didn't work because we didn't have no money anyway. So it's like, yeah, take my money. I mean, you know, take whatever you are. I'm here with you. I'm going to hear with you. You know, you can have my money. It don't even matter. So he did kind of slightly take advantage of y'all being younger with the whole

the pay cut thing. I'm imagining since, you know, everybody else didn't come back. Well, I wouldn't even say take it. advantage. That was just a law. That was just what he did. You know, that's what he did. When he get to a certain point, it's like if, and he could be just going through a thing

where he feels like he needs a change. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. And if he need a change, then he'll start a ruckus, you know, and say, man, funk y'all, you know. So, you know, they had me going in asking for raises. when I didn't even feel like a raise. I mean, you know.

You just got here, right? Yeah, we just got here. We having a great time. What is wrong with you people? But the thing is is that it seems amazing enough, but you guys were only there for less than you. You were there for 11 months. Yeah, yeah.

But in that time. Everything that you guys did was some life-changing fun. like next to Slice Stone. I mean, you guys single-handedly like rewriting the book of what soul music was. What was the last gig like before you guys were like?

Oh, I don't. Did James let you guys go or was it? You guys said we have to go? You would? No, I don't know. I never, I never knew what the last gig was. It's funny. It's funny. The last gig was here in New York

at the Copa Cabana. Okay. We was there supposed to be there for two weeks, right? We had just came back from Europe. We had did two, three weeks over in Europe. We had did a couple of weeks over in Africa. We come back, and the first gig that we do is the Coppa Cabana. So we play for a week.

We're supposed to be doing two weeks. We play the first week. But the trouble started over in Africa before we got back. The trouble started with while we went to the president, what was his name? Mobutu. No, Mabutu. This was the rumble in the jungle? No, no.

This one was the president of Zambia. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, we went, he invited us to his, you know, it was like the White House name. So he invited us there. And what happened was. was there's been some rumbling going on about we need a raise, you know. And so I'm the Mikey.

You know, I'm like Mikey. You know, that commercial, let's get Mikey to do it. Right, right. So I was always the Mikey character where they tell me what they wanted because James was always kind of soft with me. You know, he, you know, okay, man, okay, yeah. You can get away with it. Okay, yeah, you know.

You really were his son. Yeah, yeah. And remind me to, well, maybe I shouldn't tell that story. Okay, but anyway. You should absolutely tell that story. You should. No, it's kind of personal with his, you know. But so we go to dinner and they say,

Busy, you're going to tell him. You know, you need to tell him now. You need to tell him now because we were the president and we want to embarrass him. What? No. No. No.

So check it out. So check it out. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I said. You know, you need to go tell him now because we got to play, you know, after we lead to dinner, we got to go play.

But you need to tell him now so he can agree to it, you know. So, and I ain't going to tell the names that told me this to do this. But so I said, okay, I do it. So I went and told him. and you know actually I didn't tell him they wrote they wrote it down they wrote it down they gave it to me okay take it to it take it to James

James down on this end of the table and then you got the president on the other end of the table you know and everybody else is sitting you know around right long long table so I get up I go down, I hand a note to James. Okay?

He said, what's this in, son? What did you know? Why, the band just want, you know, just read it, you know, and let us know what's happening. You know, he knew I was full of it. He knew it, you know. So, you know, once he read it, he jumped up from the table. Oh, shit.

You mother. In front of the president? I knew it. No fucks. I knew it. I knew it. Y'all coming at, y'all got boozy doing all this shit. I know it ain't him.

I know it ain't him. And y'all ain't got, but one more time to try this. And that's going to be it. That's going to be it. So, you know, well, you know, the whole thing. was, well, do we get a raise? Do we still get it? Yeah.

All right, I'm going to give it to y'all this time. Awesome. I'm going to give it to you. But don't try it again. And so that stuck in my head. You know, don't try it again. So we get back from Africa. Everything's cool.

It was a blast, man. I never, I mean, never could imagine what Africa was really like unless I had really been there. You know, I was thinking Tars and, you know, the animals, Jane. Did you go to Nigeria? Legos, baby. Did you go see Thelah?

Did I go? Oh, tell me. Did I ever come home? What was that like for you to see him in his prime then? Man, I mean, words can't even do that justice. Words can't do that justice, man, because, okay, I got a story, man. Yes. Oh, come on, y'all.

It's fireside chat. Okay. All right. All right. So we on the way to see Fala, right? All right. We all one night. So we're on the way to see Fela.

And then at this time, you got to understand in Nigeria, the police was the army. It was an army. Serious. They didn't play. They didn't play. I mean, with nobody. You know, it's like, so we in the car. you know riding you know riding you know riding to the gig and I'm like you know we're in the backseat we're smoking

you know and of course I got the weed right I got the bomb in Nigeria Bootsie yeah yeah in Nigeria oh I got friends I got friends in high places and low places and even lower than that so so I got the weed you know and And well, I ain't going to call no other name because y'all already know I'm guilty. So I'm passing around. And so all of a sudden, this car pulls up on each side. One pulls up on this side. One pulls up on that.

And get out the car. And, you know, we're looking at each other because we don't know what's going on. Only the driver knows what that means. I mean, you know, get out the car. Well, he didn't say get out the car. like in English. Whatever the lines was. And now we offended the content.

Yeah, we didn't know what was happening. So, you know, the driver looked at us and said, won't you step out? You know, step out. So, and I'm looking at this person saying, what do I do with the weed? Right. You know, and she said, put it in your, put it in the boot. Put it in the boot. I was like, oh, then I snuck it, put it in my boot.

And then the driver said, no, no, open the boot, open the boot. Oh, the trunk. Check it out. Open the boot. Open the boot. I'm like, how did he see me put that in my boot? Why are he telling? Yeah.

And so next thing I know, the driver got out, opened the trunk and I was like, and then this other person said, he meant the trunk. Man, my heart, you know, my heart jumped out the one that was on the floor. I didn't know what, you know, because the stories of what these cats would do to you,

you know, it's like, brutal. Oh, man. So. You know, when he said the boot meant the trunk, I was like, okay, cool. Then he checked the trunk, nothing, you know, because we had everything on us, you know. And so after that, he said, okay, y'all can go, you know. And I, you know, right there I was through, you know.

The only thing to save me was the rhythm of the drum. You know, the closer we got, the rhythm of the drums, rhythm of the drums. rhythm of the drums because that's what drove me out of the state I was in after what's in the boot because it fucked up your high oh man so we got down to phelah's place he had a he had this big big room it's kind of like back in the gladiator days where there was no roof so you couldn't tear the roof off the roof was already to all. It wasn't no roof and all you can hear

when you're on the way there is the rhythms. It's the rhythms. You know, and actually that's where I put in my memory bank that beat

if you listen to stretching out which I know you have. Look at your face. This is the quietest I've ever been in any question of the future. That's where I got the emphasis of that. And I saw the females dance. Did you know of Phelah's music ahead of time?

I had no idea. Oh, man. So tell us when you walked in the door. Like, oh my God, what you saw must have freaked you. Well, it was before I walked in the door. We was already freaked out. Like I was telling you, the rhythms, I mean, that was like, you know, and the way they was treating us was like we was gods.

And I'm like, y'all got this twisted. You know, I'm saying to myself, you must got the goal, you know. And of course, I told him that, but they didn't, you know, they was like, no, it's y'all, you know. Because they all, they praised James Brown. Was he with you? He was with you guys? He wasn't with it. No, this, now you got to remember, this was after, you know, we, you know, the race.

Yeah, the race. Right. So he was mad, you know. I'm mad. So he wasn't going down that wood. At first, he was going before that. Yeah. But no, he saw us later, you know, and I can dig it.

Because it wouldn't have been cool. You know, we couldn't have been smoking. They had no fun. You know, no fun at all. You know, so it worked out really good, got to meet Fela. He did the horn thing. He sung. And the people, I mean, it was just, you know, it was something like,

I never never experienced since I say it like that I believe you yeah yeah because it was it was all natural all raw

you know and then he invited us back to the room and we had these little you know the little joints you know you know you know dumb

I mean seriously you know and it too huh and and and I expensive shit I mean it's like

what are y'all and it was like an insult to offer you know you're a little bit of whatever oh man you know it's like okay I'm putting this away because it was you know it was massive man

I mean it was massive and we stayed pretty much all night in that room after they came off stage it was a blast what time did they come off stage Did they come see you? What was it like for them to see the James Brown show? It was the same kind of, you know, the same kind of experience for them, you know.

Because I know that Falakutti worshiped James Brown and. Yeah. It was the same, it was that same kind of vibe we had when we saw them. That's why I couldn't understand personally myself why they was so, well, I understood it, but at the same time it was like, we had nothing. compared to what y'all are doing you know and they couldn't yeah they couldn't fan them that because the the I think that just the the the myth of America yeah and what it's supposed to represent is larger the idea of America is larger than yeah it's it's byproduct so

you guys flew home to the Copa after that yeah right after that and what happened we did about two or three gigs because we had six it was six was it six or seven it was seven nights i mean seven yeah seven shows and two on sunday because we had to do the matinee okay so um james was going to cut the salary okay well uh and we were playing seven days and twice on Sunday and he decides to cut the salary and the same people came to me like we can't let him do this

you know you gotta go in there Mikey you gotta get it straight man you know and I'm like what the problem is you know we're working yeah I mean I'm you know I got all these girls and You know, I got my weed.

I got my LSD. I'm cool. What else do I need? Yeah. You know, I ain't got no responsibilities. You know, and all this responsibility I have is playing, you know, because I love to play. You know? And so, you know, these musk with responsibilities, you know, that's what they were really concerned about, you know.

And I understood it after I got away. But while I was there, it's like, what the problem is? know. And so they talked me into it again, you know, go in and say and tell him, either he pay us full salary or else we walk. And so I didn't feel good about it. All the other times I felt like, you know, you can go in and do it, you know. But this particular time, I didn't feel good about it. You know, I was like to myself, I was saying, okay, now if I do this, you know and if it don't work you know we're walking

you know the whole you know the band that came with me we're walking you know it's like oh he he gives you everything by you coach your base he buy you all it you know I'm like okay so I go in there and I drop it on him

you know he says God son I knew you gonna do it I knew you're gonna do it they've been using you They're just using you, man. You see that? And I'm like, well, this is what they, you know, this is what they're saying. Well, son, you know what?

I ain't going to let you get away with it this time. You go back there and tell them they all five. I ain't going for it. You know, he's saying, I know what they're doing to you. And, you know, you should know. So if y'all got to walk, walk. That was it. I went back and told him.

And they was like, they started looking up in the air and stuff. You know, I'm like, I can't go back on my word. If I told him, man, I got to go.

If he can't do nothing, then I got to go. Yeah. And so, ah. And then in my mind, it's like, okay,

what in the hell are we going to do now? You know, because I knew, that was it. You know, it's like, we got to go. So we're sitting on the bus. We all, the whole band, sitting on the bus, you know,

looking at each other on trailway. I know we're right here. Trailways, man. I remember taking them. Trailway bus, man. And, you know, we're looking at each other. And then they're looking at me like, okay, what are we going to do now since you went in there and, you know, you messed it up.

They're messing it all up. You didn't ask right. Yeah. You didn't ask right. And so, you know, that was whamming me out. I started feeling like, dang, what are we going to do? So the next thing came to my mind is you're going to go to Cincinnati. You're going to practice.

You're going to get in that basement. You're going to practice. You're going to get tight. And you're going to go to Detroit, you know, and see what happens. Because, you know, that's what we were into taking people's gigs. Check this out, y'all. We've got to continue next week with more Bootszilla. Sorry you hate to see it done, but we got to do it.

Come back next time for part two of our very strange journey with Bootsie Collins on QLS Classic. Westlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%.

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