The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Chris Schwartz

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Team Supreme is joined by Co-founder of Ruffhouse Records, Chris Schwartz. From the streets of Philly, to signing household names like Cypress Hill, Kriss Kross, The Fugees and even giving Quest his first internship, Chris breaks down the highs and lows of running one of the most successful hip hop labels of the 90's.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, this is on Pape Bill. This week's QLS classic is with Chris Schwartz. In the September 24th, 2019, Convo,

Chris talks about co-founding Rough House Records. growing up in Philly and giving our very own quest love his first internship. Episode 132, here it is. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, subprima, roll call.

This is not going to make no sense. It's my turn. Yeah. Live and you learn. Yeah. We're talking to the man. Yeah. Who let me intern?

Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Fonte's in the building, yeah. And it must be said, yeah. Roughhouse records? Yeah. They got all my bread.

Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima, roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, suprema roll call. My name is Sugar. Yeah. Last time I lived here. Yeah.

I lived with Amir. Yeah. That was a rough house. Supriam, sub, sub, sub, subprima, roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima, roll call. Boss Bill's in the house. Yeah. No, I ain't on a plane.

Yeah. But I just might be a little, yeah. Insane in the brain. Roll car. Supreme. No, I never thought of that one that hits. Suprema. Suprema, sub, sub, supremal role call.

My name's Laeam. Yeah. And that's Chris Swartz. Yeah. You may not know this, but he was my boss once. Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema, roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima, roll call.

Chris Schwartz, y'all. Hanging out. Yeah. Questlove, Supreme Team. No doubt. Role call. Suprema. Last one of the tip of it.

Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema, rocala. Suprema, sub. Supraima roll call Suprema Subrama Roll Call See It wasn't

That bad No, but it was pretty bad No, you call me like life ending Ladies and gentlemen Welcome to another episode Of Questlove Supreme I'm Questlove And we have the team Supreme here

Hello Lightya, hello This is your life Yes I know right Fantigolo in the house Yeah Yeah

And I'm Pay Bill. He's not here. He's here in spirit. I'm sorry. Yeah, he's recovering. Boss Bill's in the house. And Sugar Steve. Good to see, man.

Hey, how you doing? Good to see, everybody. Yeah. It's nice to see. What up? I will say that our guest today was instrumental in giving us a lot of classic 90s hip-hop. Man, listen. That shaped us.

Not to mention, this man also gave me one of my first jobs that got me into the industry. Gave me an education. I asked for an internship. He's like show up at 10 in the morning, be on time, and then I was there. What can I say? Like, Rough House Records, Philadelphia's premier recording label that gave us Larry Lair, Cypress Hill, the Fugis, the goats. Chris Cross.

Chris Cross. A little unknown group called Chris Cross. Even Jamal. Oh, man. Jamanski, I used to play that. Jump. You don't do it. Like,

Jamonski started the Jamansky started a slew of impostifari and imitators on their label. But even DMX. Not many people know that DMX's first single was on Roughhouse. I mean, schoolie, there's so many.

Book coming out. Yes. When? In the title of the book? Rough House. From the streets affiliate to the top of the hip-hop charts. Yes, I didn't know what the parentheses was called. Ladies and gentlemen, give it for the one and only, Chris Schwartz.

Yes. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Man, full circle. Yes. Chris Wartz. I mean, last time I've seen you, man.

You know, we were. I talk about this all the time. I remember always seeing you either at the airport or the train station. You were always on the move. Always on the move. I was telling Leah, I was driving to 30 street station with somebody from New York. And I said, I'll bet you right now, like 20 bucks that we're going to see a mirror. Right?

So we got to the train station. you weren't there and I forked over the 20 but then when we were leaving New York to come back you were to train station see I'm never

well see I'm the opposite of general I'm never on time but always there never there I have so many questions I mean I've known you for so long but never knew your true story

right but where were you born Were you born in Philadelphia? In a hospital in Philadelphia. Okay. Technically, yeah, I was born at Jefferson Hospital. Okay. Yeah. What part of Philly did you grow up in?

I grew up in Devin. I grew up out in the farmlands. Okay. You say that with pride. A lot of people. No, no, no. I'm not ranking. I'm just saying that when people who are not in Philadelphia see me, they're like,

hey, I'm from Philly. I was like, where part? And then they get the same like, Devin. or Ben Salem or you know Comstocking Yeah Yeah um

Devin Yeah Devin Where I was Where I grew up It was Like farmland And then my neighborhood Was this little

Like I guess it was like A World War II You know Post World War II Little development And But

But But, you know, I left home at 17 and joined the service and spent... Really? Yeah. Okay. Which branch? Navy. Navy, okay.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's all in the book. I would have never. I'm like, all that discipline, Chris? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that explains a lot. Yeah.

What do you, I mean, were you always sort of drawn to music or... Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, since, well, I grew up in a family of 10 kids. Wow. So where do you fall? Number seven. Okay. So I have four older brothers and two older sisters.

So growing up, you know, I was born in 1960. So having old, you see, it's a thing. My family was set up, it was like two groups of kids. There was the older kids, right? and then my parents had another five kids later on. So, for instance, when I was, I guess, five or six, my oldest brother came home from, he went to college and he started his first job.

And then he moved back from Ohio to our house. I didn't know who he was. I mean, yeah, literally. A stranger in your house? No, it was like one day, One day I'm, you know, my mother wake up and my mother is talking to this guy and, you know, he's got like bushy blonde hair and a scraggly beard and he's standing at the top of the stairs in his underwear talking to my mother. And my mother's talking to him like, you know, she's new all her life. And I'm like, I'm standing behind her like, who like, who is this?

You know? So, but, but back to, you know, so I grew up in a house. a lot of music from the 60s and the 70s, you know, was constantly playing from different rooms. And so, yeah, I was particularly, you know, there was a lot, there was two things going on. You had the definitive pop radio, which was AM radio, which was just pop hits.

And then you had the progressive FM rock stations. So were you a wizard one of the, 100 head? No, it was actually WFIL. Oh, okay. Yeah, and then there you had WISP and WMMR. WMMR, for people from Philly, you know, probably don't know. It was actually one of the first underground FM rock stations in the country.

I know it well. Every Saturday at 12 o'clock at night, they play an entire album, like new album, I'm buying artists, and they would tell you how to set your Dolby on your tape deck to record. It's really Yeah Yeah Really? Yep

Damn I didn't realize that So you you weren't You weren't part of the generation Listened up Because I know that Wizard 100 On the AM dial Was Kind of like

That actually That actually may have been a little bit Before my listening years Okay Yeah Yeah All right No I just

You know The house was always on my radio. Like in the house that radio was always on. Yeah. House wasn't always on my radio. The radio was always on in my house. Yeah, but usually on the weekends, like Saturday and Sunday, like Casey Kasem's countdown

would come on that station and whatnot. All right, so you're straight up FM kid. Yeah. Do you remember what the music environment was like in Philadelphia as far as the nightlife was concerned or anything? you have to go to New York to Well, when I was, I mean, like,

when I was, when I was like a, like a teenager. Right. The music of Philadelphia was really more primarily known because of PIR. You know, it was really known as the,

you know, you had, you had the, you had Motown always. But Philly, Philly was known as, is the place where, you know, it played a big part of the disco era, you know, the tramps and everything like that.

So. But your coming of age was more post. Yeah. Assuming 21, 22, whatever, like. Yeah. Well, I would, well, I was, I would have been 21 in 1980. 81. Yeah.

Yeah. 1881. So what were the musical options after? the initial primary disco dust had settled. I'll go so we're talking about

that period yeah in 1981 it was it was um it was uh you know it you had

lady B Power 99 you know yeah that's so you were a hip hop head oh yeah in 1981 most yeah

well here's it was it was two things it was hip hop on one part of it Right. And then my sort of bass formative thing was I was really into electronic music. That was it. Like to me, craft work.

Yeah. Craft work. See, because I've been listening to craft work since I was a kid. I mean, I want to see them perform Audubon at the Valley Forge Music Fair because because Audubon, here's what a lot of people know, WFIL, used to play the entire album version

of Audubon. The three longest songs in history of AM pop radio were tubular bells by Mike O'Field, which was he, because it was the theme for the Exorcist, indigodavita by Iron Butterfly. And then you had

Audubon and they used to play it. You know, the entire thing on pop radio. So they, uh, they did a show at the, uh, the Valley Forge Music Fair. And I went there with my best friend with a circular stage. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. That's the new Valley Forge. That's the later on. Valley Forge Music Fair actually started as a tent. Really? Yeah. It was a big tent. It was like a seasonal thing. They'd have like, you know, fiddler on the roof and stuff like that. And, um, they had just built the, the first one, the first incarnation of it. Right. And, uh, yeah. And,

And it was like, I went there and was just two guys, you know, Ralph and Florian and like big stacks of keyboards and everything. And it was, it was, it was, it was very cool. I was so, you know. Futuristic. Yeah. They were the daf punk. Yeah. Well, it's, it's funny.

If, um, they, they were, you know, the way I kind of see it, daft punk really, yeah, if it with, if there's been no craft work, I'm not. I'm not sure. The crap works. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I see what you mean. Wait, is the Valley Forge Music Fair still around today?

I don't think so. I think there's a, there's either a red lobster or something. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Cross did a show there. Yeah, I was going to say. With Dr. Jay and Ed Lover.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. It closed in 96. Really? Yeah. Damn.

Yeah. There's always my dream. to play there. Like my dad played there once, but like they would have a rotating stage in the round thing and Yeah. One could get dizzy or lose

their sense of... Yeah. Depending on how many degrees the how fast the stage was turning. When I was 13, I worked at a banquet house down the street washing dishes and all the, whoever

was playing at the Valley Forge Music Fair used to come to... Stop through. Yeah, they go there to eat. And I met a lot of people like Mac Davis. Oh, damn. I changed a flat tire for Zero Mistel's limo. Really?

Yeah. Damn. He gave me a ride home. Gave me 50 bucks. Wow. Fix a limo and get a lift. Do you remember the club Cahoots? There was like a Sheridan, a circular Sheridan hotel, like, in the area of?

Oh, yeah. And Valley Forge. Yeah. I never had reason to frequent that club. Yeah. But I know they had that. That's the place that had the themed hotel rooms. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm going down fully memory lane. I'm sorry. I always wanted to go to there. It's fine. Yeah. So for you, like, listening to Lady B. Well, Lady B started off on W.HAT.

Do you remember Mary Mason? Yeah. Mary Mason? She was still on H.A. Well, she was. was still not yet until she dies. Yeah. So, like, they had a Saturday hip-hop show.

One of the very first ones that Philadelphia had. So I know that Lady B started at HAT, like 1980 till, which is weird, considering that hip-hop, you know, two years in having a two-hour format, you know, you only had, like, 30 records to choose from. So you had to play all those 16-minute songs. And then they took over the station that was the, there was the, I think it was WIOQ. Right. Then they became, it was yesterday's now music today.

It was like new wave. Then I think they moved her there. Right. And they build up the ratings. Like they, she was there. Like it could have been, you know, I might have my facts wrong, but I believe it, they, they would play. It was all hip hop. It was massive.

They sponsored shows at the after. midnight and then they sold it. Oh, really? And I think she went to Power 90s. I'm not sure. Yeah. Well, she came to Power 99, 84, briefly had an afternoon Sunday show from like 12 in the afternoon till maybe 5 p.m. on Sunday afternoon. And I mean, there she would play hip hop and the electronica of the day.

So sort of like nucleus and. Jam on it. Yeah, that sort of, you know, anything that sounds like Planet Rock. Oh, right. Eventually went away and then, yeah, and then returned in 1987. Did you start out as management first? Like, what was your first job in the industry? I played, I played in bands.

Okay. And, um, who did you play with? I, well, my first, my first thing when I, when I joined it, when I joined the Navy, um, I played in, I started a band for a bunch of other sailors. And we, we did a bunch of gigs. Mm-hmm. And when I came home. I regrouped with my best childhood friend, Jeff Coulter. He was a drummer.

Okay. So when I was in the service, he started really getting into, you know, because of craftwork, he started getting into these other, I mean, craftwork is kind of like at the apex of this whole, like community, like of all these German groups like Klaus Schulza, Tandering Dream, Noi. Everything that Dilla's sample. And so when I came home, he had like literally over a thousand records of this stuff. And we get them at either plastic, fantastic, and Ardmore or the basement of third street jazz.

You mentioned plastic fantastic. One of the greatest record stores ever. Right down the street from when I sold insurance on Lancaster Avenue. Yeah, yeah. I would take my entire check to plastic, fantastic. And here's the thing. the basement of 3rd Street Jazz, that's all that was. And you would, you know, like a Klaus Schultz import was like 120 bucks.

But you bought it because this was like, you know, Klaus doing a like two sides of a duet with some famous cellist. And Klaus is playing with the GDS computer. And, you know, it's just very cool stuff. So I had a set of Deegan Elektra vibes. It's a portable set of vibraph phones that you, like a suitcase and the stands. So I bought all my equipment, had it shipped back, and him and I joined up, and we started this group called Tangent. And we were, you know, just devotees to electronic music. So you release product?

Oh, well, yeah, with WXPN. So WXPN had two radio shows. One was called Diaspar and the other was called Starsend. they played and supported electronic music. We did shows. So we did a tape for them. And I remember we drove down to their station on Spruce Street and jumped out of the car, double parked, ran in, knocked on the door.

Some guy, you know, the buzzer opens the door, takes the tape. And like three nights later, we're, you know, every night, that's all we did was jam and record. and we stopped to listen to Star's End and John D. LaBerta comes on and says, yeah, we got a new tape from a group from Philadelphia called Tangent, Chris Schwartz and Jeff Coulter, and we're hearing the stuff.

Now, I've been adding, you know, I've been adding the Navy now three months, and I'm already, you know. On the radio. Yeah, so they hooked us. We went and played their picnic that they had, and then we, We were, we did a show at the East Side Club where we did Audubon.

We played the whole version of Audubon there. And I met this, this girl who was a filmmaker and she introduced me to these guys who had a band called Rhythmalines. At this, in this period in Philadelphia, Philadelphia had this really amazing live music scene for bands. And there was, you know, it's when you go down the South Street and you'd see these bills on telephone poles and there'd be like shows every night you could go out you could go out and see any number of uh the stick men the vells pretty poison um yeah pretty poison so catch me on falling

pretty yeah so so we joined jeff and i joined this bigger band called rhythmal lines and it was more like uh new order talking heads type thing and we we we did a bunch of shows opened up for pretty poison, the veils, shows with the stickmen. We did shows at Blondies, Emerald Cities, Bigelows, Phillies, um, and the East Side Club.

Yeah. And, um, but I wanted to get a record deal. That was my big thing. I wanted to, you know, get a record deal. And, you know, the guys, the, the other guys in the, in the band, they weren't, I don't know, they, they just had, uh, their priorities

were in peculiar places. I'll know. So Jeff and I left. We ended up moving to a house in West Philly that a friend of mine, Rich Murray, who is a Temple film grad. I know Rich Murray. Yeah. Yeah.

And so we all, we moved in together. We put a studio, we put our studio in one of the rooms. And so Jeff and I were now doing more traditional dance music. And met this girl, Robin Carter, who was her, they called her Astro Girl because she had this total affinity for anything related to NASA and space travel. She actually went on to get her degree in astrophysics, and she does work for NASA as we speak. Oh, shit. Really?

Crazy. But she was a saxophone player. Her landlord was Jack Wright from Spring Garden Music. So she had very... You're naming all these, like, Philly legends of record store owners. Yeah. Shout out to Michael McQuilkin also from Third Street Jazz. Yeah.

Used to give me all the good shit. So we, we, she joined up with us. We came up with that we called ourselves the Ultronics, right? Right. And we, we started doing gigs. And she got us a gig at the gallery mall. Oh, the gallery. The Fable Gallery Mall

It was a little different You know So we're doing our thing And people are kind of coming They're standing there carrying the shopping bags They're looking us for about Three or four minutes and walking away But there was a group of kids

Who were like watching us Intently the whole time And they're like talking amongst themselves Right And they're just like So So when we're done, they kind of like, they walk over and this kid introduces himself. His name is Clinton Shirley.

And his stage name was Kid Fresh. And he said, you know, we're a hip-hop group and we'd like to know, could you guys help us do some beats? So we bought him over to our house. and like the next week and we did a bunch of tracks on the second floor and made this tape and so by this time we had amassed a bunch of 12-inch dance records

so I started looking through these records because I remember there was a record label in Philadelphia and it was Virtue Records and I got the phone number Now, I got to go back a little bit because Rich being, you know, as a filmmaker, he was doing these videos for Philly World Records. And he got me the gig as being the caterer during these video shoots. Right. So I had met Donald Robinson.

And Donald came over to our house. I tried to get him to produce us. And he said, yeah, I get what you're doing, but your song suck. And I was like, all right, I get it. But the thing is, it's that when I called the number on virtue recording, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I kind of took the liberty of bolstering the narrative and telling Frank Virtue that I was I was working with Donald Robinson. Right.

And that got Frank's attention. And he said, come on up. So I went up to Frank and I played him this stuff. He listened to it. Now, Frank had been working, has a partnership with the guy named Vince DeRosa, who wanted a company called Soundmakers in Jersey. and for folks who might not know or maybe be interested, soundmakers in the 80s pressed up all the records

for Next Plateau, Sleeping Bag, Tommy Boy, even Death Jam, yeah, all the indie labels. So they were the disc makers of that time? Oh, wait. We should also know that Donald Robinson, didn't he write Dreaming for Vanessa Williams? Yeah. Yeah, he did.

Oh, Donald, Donald did lots of. of Eugene Wilde, you know. Gotta get you home tonight. You know what? I got to tell you. Well, that song, you know, that song was a, was a, was really just doing sexual healing. Right. Yeah.

Right. But it was still a great song. Mm-hmm. You know? So, yeah, well, that's where I met Donald because I was a cater on, on Rich was doing the video. And living all on Philisimmon. Philislems. Yeah.

So, um, so Frank, Frank, Frank Virtue. And for people know, he was a. music industry old-timer. He played in the Philadelphia orchestra as a teenager. He was a prodigy violinist. And he led they drafted

him to the Navy to lead a big band, dance band in the Navy. He got out and he had a group called the virtues. And the virtues and the virtuosos. He had a couple hit songs. He had guitar shuffle, boogie, the horse, the return of the

horse. He toured with like Patty Pets. and somebody sent me something on a Facebook the other day. He actually did shows with the three stooges. It's a warm-up back row of three stooges. Really? Yeah. So we, Frank and Vince formed this record company called Slice Records,

and Clinton Shirley was one of their kid fresh, was their first artist. So we did these records up at Franks, and it was a pretty pathetic affair. terms of a label. They're pressing plan hired this guy on a pickup truck to drive Clinton and his hype guy around to the to the venues and everything and nothing ever came of it. But Clinton later on changed his name to Mike Elliott. And yeah, yeah, I knew that. I was leading up. Yeah. So who was Mike Elliott. Yeah. Mike Elliott, the source. But you know, but here's the thing. He actually co-wrote the what's the kid the sneaker

the movie um do you have on the TV and movies uh Mike Ellie did the Source Awards well yeah hang on I got to look yeah Mike Elliott is one of the original uh

Source My Squad guy yeah yeah oh I didn't wait I didn't realize I forgot he also had his own video show he had his own video show in Philadelphia it's killing me now He went in the movies.

Mike Elliott developed the Carmen movie. Oh, with Beyonce. And most thus birthings sometimes in this very room that we're in. But yeah, Mike Elliott is a Philly legend. Wow. He did the script for Brown Sugar? I believe so.

I know that he got into filmmaking heavy. Yeah. No, he did the something like Mike, what's it at the, about the kid in the orphanage. Yeah, like Mike. Like Mike. No, something like Mike. It said Brown Sugar was his first script.

No, but here's the thing. Rich Murray and I were out in L.A. This years later, and we were at some film company, some studio. And the guy were sitting there and somehow we hear Mike Elliott's name and saying, Mike Elliott. I know Mike Elliott. And he said, oh, yeah, you know, he's a hot property right now because he did the, this, the movie. It's about a kid in an orphanage and something to do of a pair

of sneakers. Like Mike? Oh, like Mike. He did like Mike. Yeah. Like Mike. Yeah. He did like Mike with the bow wow. Yeah. So, um, I'm sorry. So, so, so I, so then the thing is the tradeoff

was Frank would let me use the studio to develop acts. I had to help him. Frank had a gospel business. And what it would be is that, you know, a lot of the bigger churches would record their gospel choirs, they'd press up the records and sell them to the congregation to raise money. Right.

And so that was a big business of Franks. Frank actually, interestingly enough, had a very, you know, back before Sigma Sound and these companies, everybody went to virtue to record. Kenny and Leon did a lot of their earliest stuff up there. and Frank I don't know if many listeners don't know about the mastering process but after a record

is made and mixed it has to be mastered and what mastering is it's a process for making sure that the record that you made in the studio is reproduced everywhere else with the intended audio equalization so the record has to get mastered

for manufacturing so it's a It's a whole other kind of mixing process. And Frank had been doing it for years. He held patents on the mastering. He mastered the first couple of Beatles singles for Swan and Decker Records. So I did this whole thing with Frank for a while. And it just kind of, you know, came to nothing.

And now, like, I'm working at Downey's as a cook and living in West Philly. and I saw an ad in newspaper for record company looking for help. And I'm like, oh, okay, there's, you know, something. And I called this guy up. And he tells me he has a company called Nice Town Records in West Philly. And his name was Ted Wing. And one of his records was... Bill Cosby.

Live and graded for prison. Yes. Yo, remember I told you the Bill Cosby's record that he took. So, yeah, so Ted, Ted was formerly a prison guard, right? And Ted helped actually helped Lawrence and Dana start pop art. So, so, so, so, so, yeah, so, you know, cut to Rich and I, you know, also did a video for pop art. We did the, um, Roxanne's, Roxanne's revenge. Yeah, yeah.

We shot it at our house as a, you know, um, also, uh, did a video for, um, um, did the, um, Roxanne's, Roxanne's revenge. As a matter of fact. There's a video for that? Yeah. I never knew. Yeah, it's called Roxanne's Revenge. I remember the record. Yeah, I'll tell you this.

I, uh, we shot it at our house and it had everybody was involved in the actual story about how she got a record deal and got signed was in it. The shooting went till three in the morning and I'll never forget coming downstairs in my living room. Uh, Marley Marr and Mr. Magic are in my living room on the couch under blankets, eating serious. and watching cartoons. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

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Listen to the Clifford Show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Eaglewood. Next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall

and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Wait, can you take a slight sidebar? And because whenever I get someone that tells a pop art story, usually it's, you know, told like, and then I met Lawrence Goodman. No, Dana was the dangerous one. Okay. Well, this is what I want to know. Obviously, they had the makings to be a contender. Yes.

Because they were Def Jam before Def Jam. Yeah. They had salt and pepper. They had all of the juice crew. If it hadn't been for them, I'd never tried to get a deal with a major label. Right. So how did they drop in the most diplomatic way you can say, or if you don't give a fuck, tell us the truth. How do they drop the ball on Pop Art?

They had something. They had, I'll tell you what they had, man. they they cracked the code right long before a lot of people and here's what they realized hip hop music

right yeah you know it was a it was the purview of the indie labels because for the first time since the whole disco era you could now

be an independent label you could make a record you could get it out there and because you're using you're facilitating lifestyle marketing initiatives and everything stuff that doesn't cost a lot of money but yet you have a product they can go out and sell big numbers right and the it was kind of like um you know the the majors were seeing this you know and they were they were coveting this whole thing. And the majors basically, and I know no other way to say it, man, but they colonized

the hip-hop industry. I'm not talking about hip-hop music, but the hip-hop business. They colonized it. Yeah. And so Lawrence and Dana figured it out earlier on before a lot of people, because these companies like Next Plateau and sleeping bag and everything all went by the wayside because they all chose to remain fiercely independent. And I get that. But when the popularity of a music becomes so big, you know, you're not going to be able to deliver the manufacturing and distribution. So they figured it out that you had to get with a major. And so that's when they did the deal of Jive, right? And I watched that. And I was said to Joe, I said, that's, that's where we need to be. That's, that's what we need to do. So. But they had.

such a hefty roster. Oh, yeah. They lost them all. They had Jazzy Jeff. Fresh Prince. They had salt and pepper. They had Biz. Yeah.

Roxanne. Chonte. The Hill Top hustlers. Steady, Cool C. Steady B. They had them all and lost them all. Like, were they just whatever businessmen?

Yeah, I think it's, you know, the, for what it's worth, this business, you know, Let's face it, there is no prerequisite to get in the record business. You don't need a college degree. You don't need a residency.

You don't need nothing. And as a result of that, and because of the proliferation of all these visuals showing wealth and showing, you know, status and everything like that, it attracts a lot of people, a lot of people who feel like, oh, this is a business. so I could walk in and become a millionaire overnight, right? And they had, they, I always say they were great A&R guys and they had the musical chops, but I think they just lacked a lot in the, on the side of business. Yeah.

And just, man, I don't know. I'd want to do a good man. A good man with bulletproof. Y'all never mentioned are they still around? I'm like, they are because I still follow Well, you know, the youngster guys Well, they're oldsters now

Yeah, Karan, I know. One of them is still working with Gaga. Yeah. Like, I don't know how. Are you talking about the kids? Yeah. Yeah. Like one of them is in her staff.

But I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. Lawrence and Dana were very, they have very definitive ideas. You know what I mean? And that's what? that's to me it's like

you know they again they cracked a code they figured it out because I'll tell you when they did the deal with Jive and I'll never forget they came in the studio with their with their jackets at RCA and the hats and everything and I'm like oh I was kind of

like at first I was like oh man they fucking they sold out they went with Jive and everything you know and then and then but then to hear him talk about it it was like it was like the the you know it's like well that's if you're unless it's now if you're not of a major you're going to you're going to sink yeah okay so all right so we're at the bill cosby record right right so so ted was a prison guard at graderford and um he was the director of the prisoners

activities fund and so i think bill cosby i think the story was to get his uh phd or his thesis i mean for whatever you can say about the man, he, you know, this is a guy who was shooting I spy, right, in the 60s and then flying to do casinos to do shows and getting his, he constantly, he continues education all throughout the whole thing by doing these projects. So he told the prison, you can have whatever you want to exploit this stand up, you can have it as long as the money benefits to prisoners activity. he's fun. So, so Ted ends up with this record. And, you know, he doesn't have any real artwork or anything. It's, uh,

he had some rendering done. It was just really ugly, hard-headed boys. Yeah. So, so, he, he,

I'm, I walk from 48th in Hazel to 50 second in Parkside. Looking for the address of this record company. Pass my house. Yeah. I lived on Osage. So there's this, uh, daycare center.

right Ted's mother answers the door she's like very uninviting she makes me wait for Ted I have to sit in this chair that's like a foot high for little kids and I'm sitting there for 20 minutes and like thinking this might not be the dream job I was thinking it is Ted shows up takes me up to the third floor of this building in a room with like crumbling plaster the windows are nailed shut and there's a desk and a chair and a phone and he shows me the billboard charts and how to call these retailers and get the record charted and he paid me, you know, a couple hundred bucks a week. And so I was working the Bill Cosby record. And at the time, Bill Cosby from the Cosby show had done a jazz compilation, right? So there were two Bill Cosby's

records out. And I definitely took advantage of the confusions. Yes, you did. Yeah, I did. And I was calling retailers and and doing that. And so, so we had a session. Ted signed a bunch of artists I can't even remember their names, except for Bunny Sigler. We did a Bunny Sigler record. It was pretty cool. But we, we had a session booked at Studio 4 one night.

And I had only been to Studio 4 once because I was involved in the WDAS Black History Month rap compilation with Eddie D and everything. Okay. And so we go to the session in Studio 4 and our engineers, Joe Niccolo, and I'd never met Joe, you know. And we're in the session. We're starting. Now, Ted was a pretty boisterous guy in that he was always bragging about, yeah, got this deal going on with MCA and doing this and doing that and everything. And he's doing this in the studio.

and I guess at one point I kind of rolled my eyes like out of you know and Joe caught it right so when Ted walks out of the studio Joe's like how did you end up working for this guy and he said well you know it's not my dream job but you know I want to start a record label and Joe goes like yeah well so do why you know so here's my number you know we should get up at some point nice so that happened right so back at nice town records in Westfield I was in Ted's office talking about something, and I see these records, yellow labels, and I pick it up. And the song is called Gangster Boogie by School E.

And it was on a record label called A Place to Be Records. Now, I had known about Schoolie for a long time. Right. And I know that, you know, you remember Bobby Dance and the wind ball and all, yeah, okay. So fruit of Islam security and all that good stuff. I knew about his whole thing. Right. Yeah.

And so I said to Ted, I said, so what, like, what's going on with these? He goes, oh, yeah, schoolie came to me and he wanted, you know, me to do this and that for him. I told him I wasn't interested. And I'm like, what? Like this place, like, Bill Cosby record and SchoolD comes in, you're not interested. So I filched a schoolie's number out of Ted's Rolodex and I call him up. And I said, look, you know, my name is Chris Schwartz. And I think I can help you.

And, you know, I know distribution and everything. I think he should start your own label and all this stuff. And he goes, yeah, it sounds good, man. You know, come over. And where do you live? And he lives like like a couple blocks. above the daycare center. Right.

So we set up a time, and I'll never forget this, man. I go to his house, I step up on the porch, I knock on the door. He answers the door, and he's wearing a towel, and he sees me on his porch. He sees me on his porch, and then he kind of looks around to see who's seeing me on his porch. Right. You know? And he goes, yeah, man, I'm taking a shower. He shuts the door.

and I'm standing there like, like, you know, what just happened, right? So I call him up later on. He goes, oh, you need talk to my lawyer, Warren Hamilton. And before I could ask for Warren's number, he hangs up. And I look up Warren. I met with Warren. Eventually, we met all of us, three of us together. I said, look, I'm going to, we're going to shoot some videos.

We're going to do this whole thing. I'm going to get your record, you know, distributed, and I'm going to sit up distribution. And that's how I started working with him. So this is at the beginning of PSK? Yeah, yeah. So how did you? He had recorded.

He just recorded PSK and Gucci Time, but he had not done the album yet. Okay. And we recorded the album. This is a crazy thing. in Center City at a little A-track studio that recorded the Philadelphia Orchestra. And there was no real equipment. And so they had one of the old big plate reverbs.

Right. You know what I'm talking about. And it was just... We should also shout out. All right. Spahn, what's Jeff's true last name? Because I keep on saying Jeff Cheesesteak. No, Jeff Chestic.

Jeff, yes. Are you ready? Are you ready about you want to hear of Jeff Chestic trivia facts? Yes, hit me. Him and I went to junior high together. Really? You didn't know cheese like that long? I knew Jeff Chestic since 1972, 73.

Jeff, yeah. When Jeff used to mix here, I forgot what project I was working on, but he told me the very first story of, and he never gave the title. Yeah. It was so, you know, I was like, well, I want more reverb, more reverb. And when he did this, I was like, yeah, this is just like, oh, in PSK. He's like, well, yeah, I mixed that. I know you're probably like, what? You're like, what?

Yeah, can I tell you, Jeff Chessig, I, on there, we were in AV, AV club together, right? And we, we did these AV projects, right? Right. And this is in seventh grade. He did this thing where, you know, because it's a, you have audio, you have video equipment. And he did this thing where it was an elevator going up in a store and opening up in the different departments and everything. It was really, it was clever, you know, in the seventh grade. I thought the guy had real talent, you know, chops.

Yeah, he did. So, so, um, so basically we're now doing stuff. And I was going through, it was a lot of, schooly up till then had been doing primarily, West Philly, North Philly hip hop shows and everything. And I started sending out his record to like, remember Metro record pool, Martin Keone. Yes, I do. Next thing, you know, my, I'm getting phone calls like these clubs, white clubs, right? Loving school edie, right?

And I'm sending out the record to like all these records, all these, all these, one stops in independent distributors. And like City Hall records in San Francisco, West Coast record distributors, Schwartz brothers down in Baltimore, Maryland, encore distributors up in Brooklyn. And the thing about in the independent record distribution business at the time is that it's very hard to get paid.

And the reason they're very different, in paying you is because if you're a new independent label and you have a record that goes out there and sells, that's all fine and well. But what they don't want to do is pay you. And then when they get hit red for turns, they go to call up and your phone's disconnected. So you have to you have to have like, and I used to go up, I remember driving up to encore distributors in in the car. and I'd have a car stacked with records in the back and in the trunk, and I'd sleep in the parking lot overnight, you know, wait for these guys to get a check and to give them the records. So at one point I set it up to where I was sending out the singles and they were paying

half COD, so the pressing plant. And I had a whole thing set up. And then these kids would call in different areas. And so because we had no radio airplay. So I started getting these kids to take the records to like barbershops, pool halls, retailers, because it was just like on a Saturday, where do you go to find new music? You go to the record store. So the soundtrack and the record store.

Yeah. So there's a whole thing where you could release a 12-inch, right? On a Friday, you give it to the clubs, you give it to the mix show. Saturdays you get to guys playing in the store. and Saturdays. Again, it's in the mix show and in the clubs. By Monday, you knew if you had something, right? It was that fast.

That was the excitement of putting out records. So they're calling you saying, like, I need 500 more. Yeah. And so we ran into a little schism with sound makers because I was at downtown records up in New York City one day. And I saw that they had our PSK, Gucci Time records. and it's our label everything's the same except it says distribute through warlock records and i thought wow this is not mc search yeah warlock records that's that's that's that's you know roulette morris

levy and son adam levy so so uh i didn't call warlock but i'll never forget this man i went to the counter and there's this guy who's like literally right out of central casting for for you know big guy gangster guy I was about to say were you your own collector big thick glasses and a cigar

you know and he's sitting behind it kind of goes yeah at least warlock can get the records pressed up and delivered when we need them right

so um what do you mean collector like like you were your own distributed like you did yeah I did yeah back in those days though

didn't you need some muscle oh no no no no no no the thing it took in terms of collecting, we had a company set up. It was School ED Records and no, I would send them to, you know, distributors. But we also operated kind of as our own one stop because here's the thing. Schoolie on his own had started out, you know, Chino at Funko Mart. Right.

And given them records and everything. And that became a little bit of issue because when I hooked us up with Universal, you know, you know, they, they fronted us the money to press records. Right. And then they go to solicit Funko Mart in these places. And they're, yeah, that was schooling. He was always doing shit like that. Right. But, um, shit, I was doing that and I was on Geffen.

Yeah, exactly. So, I got a box of 30 right here. Yeah. So, so, um, so we, uh, you know, but a lot of, a lot of really crazy things happened. And, and then it's, it was amazing that. that the record just suddenly took on this whole momentum, you know, and suddenly the orders started happening, you know, and it was, and we, you know, the album.

Were you in a place where, like, the demand was sort of overwhelming what you could supply? Yeah, because, because I, every time I needed Schooley to write a check to press up records. If I needed, you know, $642, he'd give me $242. You know, it was just, it was just, yeah, it was just saying everything, you cover my rest. Constantly a day late and a dollar short, you know, day late and a dollar short. I booked them in a bunch of rock clubs. And, you know, in the early days of hip-hop, um, hip-hop promoters for the most part, where guys that didn't see doing one-off hip-hop shows as like career building blocks.

It was more of a score for them. So artists get jacked all the time. And because of this, you know, Schooley always demanded his money up front before he went on stage. And I get that, right? Yeah. But when you're doing a rock club, right, that's an established venue that, you know, that deals with booking agents and everything like that, they don't stiff bands because if they did,

they'd be persona and then grata. They'd never be able to book. But, you know, we would do these shows, and he'd won his money up front, and then the idea of these club managers, and he'd have to count the money out of the receipts and everything, and then the next thing you know, he gets on stage, and what did a hip-hop artist shows in the 80s do?

They do their couple songs, and that's it. Then they roll. Right. And you got these kids that drove from Delaware and everything. They're like, yeah. That's it. So that was a whole mess.

And, you know, but anyhow, so I called it, Joe. I had that business card from Studio 4. And we got together, decided let's start this record label. And I was managing Schooley. and my first office, you know the building, you know the, my first office was when you get down into that basement floor, when you come through the door, the studio four built, right? They built, because Larry, they built a B room for Larry to put his, Larry Gold, but it's in clavier in there. Well, there was a vestibule. There was a vestibule between that, that room and the hallway, right?

That was my office. Oh, okay. It was like four feet wide and my desk was made a plywood covered with red vinyl because it was the original reception desk for the studio. Right. And I had a little lamp. And Joe bought in like a pink princess phone from home. And that was the phone.

And that's where we, that's where the actual business started. And then we moved into that to the other room, which is the bigger room. That I know. Okay. Wow. Oh, but no, yeah, and then we moved down the hall later on, took over that whole area down the hall, too. I miss it there, man. Yeah, you know what?

I got to tell you, man, it's funny because years later, you know, you go to these periods where you have gold platinum records every year and it's just never ending. But I look back on those days, and I was like, I was always broke. But I just had so much fun, you know? The time of your life? Yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversation. with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield.

And in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone, I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So when was Ruff House as we know it officially, officially born? We first, first we started, we had this really stupid, ambiguous name, Pyramid Productions. I don't know how that came about. Okay. But that lasted for like about a couple months. and Ruff House, I had to say, was probably born, ooh, I want to say 86 maybe, 86. I know it's in my book because I had to put together a bunch of events to, you know, to figure out when it happened. But I know where it happened.

We were in Arthur Mann's office, our attorney, who later went on to found Rikodis, the first CD label. in the history of music, which was an amazing thing. And there was a cassette by some rock band called Roughhouse, R-O-U-G-H. And Joe said, you know, that'd be a great name for a record label. And I was thinking, yeah, it's like, you know, and I had a pretty rough house growing up, you know, my childhood and everything. But we should change it to RUFF to keep it, you know. Yeah, keep it rough.

And that was really the birth of the label. Our first artist was an artist name Mac Money. Mia McEvins. She was a Philly battle rapper who did a answer record to PSK. Really? Yeah, it was actually, it was really good. And so we signed her. There was a group called The Dead Milkman.

Do you remember that milkman rock group? Yeah. Well, their managers, they were distributed by a company on the West Coast called Enigma. Enigma was a company that did really obscure alternative, like Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, right? Let me tell you how obscure this music was. I was living on Gerard Avenue. and I had bought a Jaguar and XJ6. Somebody broke into my car one night.

And when we went out to Enigma, they gave us all these records to bring home, right? And so I had all these cassettes of all these different artists, these rock artists. Somebody broke into my car, went in the glove compartment, and they took. took everything except it, anything that was released on Enigma. Whoever the car thief was, he basically took his time, deciding, deciding which, which records he wanted. Wait, Steve, remember that that happened to us? Yeah, someone broke into my car and left the, no roots albums? No, they, they, they, I had a Johnny, I just seen Walk the Line.

so I was like, all right, let me buy everything Johnny Cash. So I went and brought the Johnny Cash box set, all this stuff, and then I, like, brought Orange Box and special. Johnny Mitchell's, like, work and stuff, and they, like, left everything. And I had a pair of Converse sneakers. And my door was open. I got there, and I was like, wait, someone broke in my car, but I was like, why didn't they take anything? And Steve looked, and he's like, this is why.

They didn't want none of that shit. Oh, so you guys started in 86. I remember you guys went through like a couple of logos. So that's how I know the progression of the label. I first heard of you guys. I guess through, was Larry your first album signing or? Larry Lairor? Yeah.

No. We had a group called Blackmail. Larry Lair was one of the first I don't know if he was absolutely the first Okay But it's funny Because he was definitely before Tim Dog Pinsed out of my dad

Oh I was waiting I was just waiting Yeah yeah You can't I'm about Tim Dog Yeah Oh my God Is he all right

All right What are your guesses Okay Where's he at Where's him dog I know one of the joints He finessed So you don't think he's dead

I don't think he's dead at all I don't think he's dead No I think he's dead Man Wow No I hope he I guess I hope he did No I know I don't he's saying hope he's dead No I just said

In memoriam You know I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure he passed away Because he was sick Oh okay Yeah okay Yeah okay

Do you all know the scandal Yes Oh yeah We watch the Tim dog That's amazing What's the short of I don't know Tim Dogg, he was basically like meeting chicks online and like finessing them out of money and shit.

Oh. And then he was. And then he died. Quote unquote. Quote unquote died. Putting that record out, man, like, were y'all, what was the thought? Were y'all worried about in the West Coast? It was a, it was a dicey proposition.

But, you know, I said to Tim at one point, right? I said, you know, this is, you can't. You can't go and tour on the West Coast, dude. You know, you're, and he got this whole thing. I don't care. Yeah, exactly. He goes, I'm dissing gangs and everything and all that stuff. But, you know, the crazy thing was, is that that record, like, I forgot where it charted.

I think it went to maybe number seven or number five on the rap singles chart. But it was the first ever. music video that was sold as a commercial release. In other words, we sold... You sold the VHS? Yeah, we sold over 100,000 VHSs for $999. Wow. Yeah, so...

And you know what's crazy, too. The album, Penicillin on Wax... This is like hip-hop at this point started really becoming, you know, like an album-oriented thing where... if you had a hip hop single in the early 80s and you did an album, it was a good guess that your album was going to do well because the single drove it. But then I think, you know, the fans really started to want more of a narrative, you know. Right.

And Tim. The novelty was weird. Yeah. And Tim could not break out of that narrative, you know, his narrative. He could not, he could not expand on it. But the production. on the album's cool. Because some company did,

created some thing. It was like, where you can mix in quad. It was really cool. And they, they let Joe hold on to this machine for, for like a month or so. And he mixed the Tim Dog album on it.

And I'll never forget listening to that in headphones. I was like, God, this sounds so amazing. Just, but, yeah, the record didn't really.

Yeah, I bought it. Because at that time, that was when, like, just rough house, like, I would buy. Like, anything I saw on a label.

It's on the label. So I was like, then I was like, all right. And I came to appreciate the album much later. A shout out to my man, Jayzone, who was like, we're like the only two people in the world that rap, Penison and Long Wax. I'm sort of there. Oh, yeah.

I mean, if you look at it, it's like, I mean, it's comedy, but it's just, it's just a man just hollering, and that shit is amazing. He has a song called The Dog's Gonna Get You. The Dog's Gonna Get You. And Don't Get You! Ah! Oh, yeah.

Oh, don't I get you. Come to New York. It gets robbed. Also, how did you guys get connected with Cyprus? So, I, uh, while managing Schooley. Right. Starting the label. I also did, I promoted shows.

It showed at the, the Chocadero and the Chestnut Cabaret. Rest and piece of the Choir. Chuck Deer. Yeah. Just shut down. I also managed a group called Executive Slacks. Executive Slacks for my best way to describe what they were, it was nine inch nails years before nine inch nails. Oh, wow. As a matter of fact, the same label network records up in Canada used to license the slacks off of us. Okay. It was a, it was a drummer named Bobby Ray who played. standing up playing those electronic drums and a keyboard player and a singer name and to play a guitar name Matt Morello. I'll tell you one record that I just tell everybody if they're even

vaguely curious about this group, it's called Fire and Ice and it's an awesome record and it's real techno rock but way back long before this stuff was really capable. came of age. So, um, so there is a ANR guy at Geffen Records in Los Angeles named Mio Vukovic. And Mio was a DJ prior to becoming an A&R guy. And there was another guy who was an A&R guy who was a, he was a lawyer for Warner Brothers Records who became an A&R guy. And him and Mio kind of formed like a partnership. And, uh, Mio's two, three, favorite artists in the world was School E.D. and Executive Slacks. And so he called me up one day, and we got to know each other. He flew out. We hung out. And him and Jeff had signed two hip-hop artists to Geffen.

One of them was a group called 7A3. Oh, Coleman Kelly. And they were produced by Lawrence Mugs Muggerood. and the other group was a group called Silk Times Leather. Yeah, I remember them. Produced by Jermaine DePree. Ah, ha. So those projects were what they were. You know, they just didn't happen, but Joe mixed them and I helped Markkin promote the singles.

Now, you got to remember at this point, I also had a mark, I was marketing records for other labels because all the labels that couldn't sign, you know, we end up signing schoolie to Jive Records. But every label wanted them. Everybody, Electra, Warner's, Capitol, they all wanted to sign Schooley. So the guys that didn't sign them, they'd sign their hip-hop act, say, they'd call me up. And they say, can you help us? Right. So now I have like this little company doing this. Rose man, who I was in, yeah, I was in, I was engaged. I was to Rose at the time, and she started doing retail promotion and Jackie Paul, the rap chart editor for Hits Magazine. So we had a little company, right?

So we worked EZE, NWA, Tone Loke, Young MC, a whole host of other records. So we did this whole thing with Geffen for 783 in Silk Times Leather. We mark and promote the record, and Joe mixed it. and the records didn't happen but you know we started a relationship with Jermaine and his father

Michael Malden Michael Michael was the tour manager for the Fresh Fest and did a lot of stuff with Russell and Def Jam and everything Right So Joe was out in L.A.

Working mixing mellow mayonnaise Mentorosa. And Melamann is Sen's brother from Cypress Hill. And so Melamann was telling Joe, you should check out my brother's hip-hop group, which was coincidentally

produced by mugs. So Joe brings this cassette home, and we listen to it, and we're digging it and everything. And it's funny because we went up to Columbia that day. And I'll never forget, because Joe

brother Phil came with us and we had a meeting with uh scheduled with Kevin Woodley who is our A and our Kevin yeah up there and when we got there they said oh Kevin's no longer here and it's like oh well what's uh yeah oh but yeah you guys he could talk to Kurt Woodley and Kurt replaced them so one wouldley's out the other woodley's in no relation and Kurt Kurt was kind of cut from a different cloth an R wise he was more more I think much more kind of in tune intuitive with everything there's going on and Kurt wasn't feeling Larry Lair and he was unapologetic about it you know and we went round and round and Kurt's whole thing was that he felt that the uh the the the will Smith Dougie fresh storytelling style of hip hop you know yeah yeah oh you know I didn't even

tell the whole Cheba story but that's all right we'll need to get in that Chiba was actually our first record with Columbia when we did and so when we left as I'm leaving I give him a copy of the Cypress Hill tape I said well you might dig this in right

and he called me up that night and he said he goes oh man that Cypress Hill he goes I played that for Donnie that's like we got to do this Donnie I know yeah Donnie Iiner yeah Donnie Iiner and so Cypressill what happened to have been in the studio they were cutting five songs for their publishing deal of BMG

and so we offered a singles deal and they sent us to five songs and then it became an album deal and so that was such a groundbreaking moment if you remember who Hans Sol was I met my soul from

Well, he's like saying to epic or something. You were not the one? Was that the gym? Yeah, no, imagination. Ah, Hansel. Yeah, yeah, okay. He had, like, this spiked or this. He had the hair.

I'm sort of a weird. Oh, like the gospel rapper. Well, he's a gospel rapper now. Yeah, now, but back then, back then he was part of that, that, like, that school of, like, like, Kwame and, yeah, and that whole. So we had met Hansel on the, on the, on the, at the Motown Philly video. And Hans lived about maybe 12 blocks away from me. But doing the crack area, 12 blocks is, you know, forever.

That's... 12 blocks is... That might be 20 blocks in crack years. Yeah, 20 blocks. Yeah, 20 blocks. So it's like 7 p.m. And he's like, yo, man, I just came back from New York. He said, I came back from New York.

Yo, I'm going to change your life. He said, y'all got to get here. Me and Tarreek, we were like his little interns, you know, whatever, always rolling around. Hans is really responsible for Tarik being the freestyle master he is now because Hans used to do that a lot. So we like, all right, it's going to be nighttime running through West Philly. Somehow we got to Hans's block and he's like, no buildup. He just said, listen to this. First song he plays is summertime by Jazz is done from Freshman.

And we couldn't guess. He's like, guess who this is. We still didn't know that was Will and Jeff, like, by the second verse. We thought, rock him. No, no, no, no. And then he puts pigs on. Oh, shit. And we were like, what the hell?

We just, we, oh, man. We have the scanners and everything. And, see, you know, the machine I was telling you about that he mixed Pelonson on wax with the quad? Right. He used that for the police scanners. So it's like, you know, like to crazy shit, yeah. No, Joe's no joke. Yeah.

No, that album fucked me up, man. That shit. And it came from nowhere. Yeah. Well, here's the other thing, too. It's that we ship like 30,000 plus albums. And you ever seen the, you know, the thing where he jumps out on stage and there's crickets. that's what it was like.

It was like nothing, nothing, right? And the weeks are going by. And it's like, what's going on here? You know, and people are calling DJs or people. We're loving this record. But nothing. And then the B side of the one, Killam Man ends up in Juice where Omar.

The Funkie Phil. Yeah, where, where, Killer Man was. Funky film one was the A side. Funkeville was the A-Side. But he's Tupacchur's character is chasing Omar

at the elevator. And you could watch and you can sit there in the theater and you can suddenly see people like, you know. And then it just exploded. Now it's selling 50,000 copies a week. And it's just like...

Because I bought the Juke soundtrack thinking it was on that and it wasn't. But Shoot them up was on that scene. Shoot them up. Shoot them up. Yeah. Shoot them up.

It just, It was just a, it's, it's, it was a like just a real innovative master. Wait, speaking of studio, uh, for, where is, uh, where is Cravitz today? Studio four West Coast. What, he has a studio for in the West Coast? It's he, I think it's in Venice Beach. Andy funky drummer, Craved. Andy Funkie drummer Cravitz.

Yes. You know what? Uh, I, Matt, I'm going to give props, you know. Andy, to me, and for where, you know, what I knew at the time, I just thought the guy was the most incredible gifted musician, you know. Him and I, you know, we started out cool and then there was a period where we didn't get along for a long time, you know. But then later on, he ended up moving to a house near our, our wives, you know, became friends. and, you know, but he, yeah, he started the Studio 4 West. Studio 4 West, okay.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone, I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent.

He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The time that I've met you at one of those Philly Hall of Fame thing of a jiggers or whatever, you and Rose Man was there. Yep. And really, I mean, yeah, I was there to see my dad get inducted. But really, I was trying to make a B-line to you, too.

to see if I could intern at Studio 4. And this is right, this is right on the crest of Chris Cross, like, about to dominate the world. And, yeah, I, I think you guys hired me on the, on the, on the, on the strength of that Chris Ross Cross was blowing up so fast. Yeah. Because my first day there, I was. I feel like I was part of the Michael Jackson Dangerous tour.

I was mailing all these. I remember the first time I ever saw you. You were sitting there at the big conference table. And the thing is, it's funny, they gave me this Q&A thing for my book. And one of the questions was about you and everything. And they said, and I said,

you had a knapsack on, right? Yeah. And you didn't take it off. Never. And I thought like, no, so I'm walking past. And I said, yeah,

this kid's got a little. a knapsack on, like, it must be kind of uncomfortable sitting there wearing a knapsack, stuffing records in and everything. And then, like, I walked past a half hour later, you still had the knapsack on. And I thought, well, maybe he's afraid that somebody's going to snatch it if he puts it down, you know, like, I didn't know, you know, I always carry my soundtrack with me. You never know. Every superhero needs some thing. He's a free iPod. Yeah. The Chris Gross record, I'll tell you this. If things start blowing up, then is Tommy and Donnie and Kevin Glytman?

Kevin Glyman. You know, Kevin's here. Okay, so he's team Philly. Yeah. So if it's like a major, if it's Lynn Q or Larry Laird, then it's like, oh, that's Ruffells. Lin Q, that's really. That's a good thing. Yeah. But, you know, if things start getting successful, then it's suddenly Sony like, oh, yes, that was all us.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I'll tell you what. It was so funny. Like, what's the policy? Oh my God. Dude. I did, I was on CNN

Power Lunch thing, right? Doing an interview. And then my cell phone rings. And it's a executive from Columbia Records who I just won't, I don't embarrass him, so I'm not going to mention his name. But he was saying,

you know, Chris, you know, he goes, I got to tell you something. you know, Tommy really likes you. I said, yeah, I like Tommy. Yeah, but you know what, man? Tommy likes his guys to be like, you know, laid back. And so this, and so here's the thing. This guy is talking to me, he's coming through like on this frequency that I'd never

heard from him before, you know? And then I kind of put it together that he's sitting there talking to me and Tommy sitting right there. And then he starts telling me stuff like, well, you know, like, you know, Tommy, like, you know, he's really like, you know, Tommy's a star. He's a star and all this stuff and this whole thing. But when Chris Cross happened, there was a picture of Tommy, Donnie, and me and Chris Cross staying in front of us. And Rolling Stone magazine, like. two weeks later, there is the picture, but where did I go?

Oh, yeah, it was like that all the time. Really? Yeah, yeah. You got totally crossed out. When we get to another part of the story, I'll tell you something that's really just, and I can't believe I had fallen for it. But you became a star on your own right, though, Chris, because we could see you on like stern and everywhere.

Yeah, but you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, trying you know i i wasn't trying i uh but the crisscross record and and i'll make uh i'll make a an admission here that you know i talk about in the book i it i didn't like the song that wasn't when we got the crisscross like the demos they had a song little boys in the hood right and what what it was about it was about two kids 12 years old trying to make that decision okay well my role models are like, you know, these the gangsters with the clothes and the cash and the cars and over that. Do I want to do that or do I want to do this? And I

thought that was a really interesting thing for a hip hop record, you know? Like that and coming from these little kids. So that's what I thought was going to be, right? Jump didn't happen until later on in the project. And it was, and it was, it was a I just kind of thought it was a noisy little song you know it literally is it is it's a noisy little like annoying little like you know thing and so so

Michael Malden David Khan at Columbia Records and our guy he said you guys should put a baseline on the song so Joe goes and puts a baseline on it they mix it and I was leaving roughhouse one night and this is when we We had the one-room office, the glass doors, and a fax came through. Remember faxes? Facts comes through. And it was from Michael Malden and said, Chris, jump is going to be a number one song, Smash.

Michael. I should have kept that. I should have kept it. So here's what happened. Rosie Perez was the talent coordinator for In Living Color. And Rich had shot, Rich Murray shot to Chris Cross video down Atlanta. It was the first time it ever snowed Atlanta in like 32 years, right? And we shot the video for like $18,000, right?

Right. And they performed on In Living Color. the next day we're my wife and I I lived on City Line Avenue and my wife and I were at the overbrook diner and I was really hungover and my wife was giving me a bunch of shit

and and I was just like all I wanted to do was just eat and you know it was a weekend and um but I'm hearing this older middle age couple sitting

patty quarter from us and the guy was going on and on about crisscross right this older white guy he goes these kids were so amazing and blah blah blah blah blah blah and i thought wow i looked at mern i said i think this record's gonna this record's gonna blow up and uh yeah it was uh it was like a behemmaic i i can i ask one question about jump besides the money but uh uh uh Can you clarify something? So obviously my guess is the backstory with Jump Around. Oh, yeah. I'll tell you all about it.

Right. Of course, the end of the record. Yep. Joe the biter, Niccolo. Right. Which, okay. My guess is that because both acts recorded for Ruff House. Not, no.

Wait, let me get my. theory out to see if I'm right or wrong. Because Mug's producer of Jump Around was also a producer at at Ruff House. My guess is, and I always wanted to know this, because I would do the same thing.

Because the same midnight, what's the break of plug tuning? Midnight Manzell's. Midnight theme or something? Yeah, all right. So the midnight theme drums that Cyprus used on Kill a man.

Right. That's all Mugs. Right. My guess is that, okay, let me use some, you know, that some of Mugs' tools were utilized. Nope. Okay, that's all I want to do now.

I'm going to tell you exactly. The jumping song. I'll tell you exactly what happened. Tell me. Okay. So, we I passed on a lot of great artists

you know and I passed on House of Pain Arrested Development Alicia Keys What was that? Yeah Who on

Alicia Keys Oh I know that's painful I know Jermaine Debrie kind of did too well no you know what No but here's the thing It's

if you were there, you know what I mean? But anyhow, let me give back to the stories. They were wrong. So, so, we got a, we got the demo from Mugs for a house of pain. Okay. It was good. But it wasn't in our humble estimation at the time there yet. But, you know, who can hear what in a demo in this day and age, right?

But here's the bottom line. there was not a song called Jump on that demo. It wasn't there, okay? Number one, number one. Number two, right? Amanda, Cypress's one half of Cyprus manager team, Mandashir calls me up and she says, here's how she.

So you guys have a song coming out called Jump. And I said, yeah, crisscross jump. Well, House of Pain has a song called Jump. and you guys stole it and gave it to crisscross, right? And I was like, that's the most insane thing I ever heard because Jermaine DePree did everything. Right. You know?

So I said, so where did we steal the song from a man? He was on the demo, right? And I said, really? I said, hold on. Right? And I go, I've got the demo. And I'm sitting there on the film with her. And I'm listing the songs.

I said, so I'll tell you what's here. Babba, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which one of those songs is, which one did we take? And she goes, oh, well, the song's called Jump. I said, well, there's no song called Jump on this demo. Right. This is what Mugs gave us, right? But they couldn't let it, you know, Everlast couldn't let it go.

Couldn't let it, okay. Yeah. And here's the thing. Mugs told me he never thought Joe Jacked the song. He never thought. And the thing is, and I can tell you this right now, I mean, Joe Nicolow, God, Bless the man. I've known this man, you know, intimately, there's Joe, Joe's not, he doesn't have that thing.

Right. To take, like, he, that would require much more time, effort, and energy and resources to do than, then Joe wants to expend. You know what I mean? He's not the, he's not that kind of like, you know. What was his reaction when he first heard it? Oh, he loved it. Oh, he goes, oh, yeah, no, he said, oh, yeah. he said, oh yeah, he goes, you should see it in the video.

He gets right up in the camera. It's like, okay, always wanted to know. Okay, there's something else I'm just reminded of. Can you explain the Nause situation? Yeah. You guys had him first. Yeah. And then what happened?

All right. So, so at this point, you know, we're, when we got the Sony, right? to Columbia it was CBS at the time it was like you know there's death jam and there's you guys right and you're it we're not doing any other hip hop right and the next week we go up for our first meetings of like people like Angela Thomas their product manager and I'll never forget Angela Thomas was eating a salad and Kevin Woodley walks us in and he goes yeah this is Chris Schwartz and Joe Niccolo that's their hip hop label Roughhouse that we just did a deal with. And Angela's kind of like she's got her mouth full of food because she just found out that they did Rush Associated labels, which is like 30 companies.

Right, right. And she goes, and she's like, oh, another label. And you can just see that look on her face. So death jam, then something happened and they left. They got, you know, they went to, they went through a renegotiation. and it just didn't work out. They went over to MCA, polygram, whatever. And we were it, right?

And we were now doing really well, and we had a lot of pipeline revenue coming to us, you know? The labels don't have to give it to you all at once. It's there. So MC Search wanted to sign Nas. Now, a couple months prior to this, there's a guy that he was a manager of a club called Revival. In Philly? Yeah.

Greg McGarra. Yeah. I lived at Revival. I was like, I was there all the time. Greg was the manager, and we used to hang out to the Wii hours and, you know, and he constantly played me this record live at the barbecue. Right. right and he said you know you should find this kid naz and sign him but like i know that this label wild pitch was owned by stew fine i said he's already signed he's already signed to

wild pitch you know so so i just that was it right and so i get a phone call from donnie einer and he goes look he goes uh i want to introduce you to search he's got this artist that uh that you should you know, look at name Nas. I was like, oh, really? Awesome. Yeah. So search comes down to Philadelphia with Faith Newman and Nas. We go to the spaghetti warehouse.

The after midnight post. Yeah, the post after midnight. Post after midnight. You remember the original after midnight? I know the legend of it, yeah. And those guys that ran, oh my God. All right. So, so we, we do

this deal and uh it was two things we signed naz and we also did the deal for the uh soundtrack to zebra right and uh our the first thing we do if naz was half time uh rich mary uh production protege james brummel did the video for like three thousand dollars you know and then stuff started happening you know and uh you know john schector let let me to go back to an earlier part of the source when I was the school ed records right I was sending out thousands of records to retailers

besides you know to do stuff I mailed out the first issue of the source in the school ed records package oh so I knew John and Dave Dave Mays and John Schechter and John Schechter came down and his mission was to get a copy of the Nas songs and

And I gave him, like, I think, five songs. And then I think he was like the first artist to get X amount of microphones and the source or whatever. Or one of the first. Yeah. So now, now. Shout out to Miss Info. Now there's a huge, huge thing happening with Nas, right? Right.

Everybody's excited, you know. And I get a phone call. Rose comes in and says, oh, Chris, I was just told by somebody at Columbia that Nas was going to be on Columbia proper. And I was like, well, how's that? He's signed to us.

He's contracted to us. It's our, you know. And I, we called up Donnie and Joe and I go up there. And Donnie shows us a, it's a fax from Tommy. And the social. subject matter is why is Nas signed to Roughhouse, right? So here's what happened. Search

bought it to Columbia and Columbia said, oh, we'll do it, but it has to be on Roughhouse. Why? Because if it fails, then we end up eating it from our pipeline revenues, right? It's no risk for them to put it on us, you know? and it backfired on them. It backfired. It continues to backfire. Yeah. So how does it feel like being their red-headed step kid? They're red-headed step-bitches?

You know? Was it not? I mean, were they not? Because as a label on their own, they weren't, I mean, Joski-love with their, like, they weren't doing Jack with hip-hop. Yeah, I know, I know. But here's what it is. Here's what it is.

after it was all said and done you know donnie shows me this facts right and it's from tommy and it says he's saying in quote unquote you fucking asshole right is what it's it and exclamation points and underlined right and donnie was like you know chris i'm like in a thing here can you please help us out and so we we we did a deal we uh we let them we let them buy us out should we have done it you know here's the thing it was looking back in retrospect probably not but at the same time it was kind of hard to say no when this is a guy who's kind of like your partner it's the thing and everything and you know we he done a lot for us and everything and it was just a thing and then uh i remember later on faith newman you know

know kind of conceded. They said, you know, Chris, I said, part of the pressure with this is that, is that we have nothing for Columbia proper, you know? And what they, I guess they didn't want to see was that if Roughhouse suddenly ups and leaves one day, the way Def Jam did. And can imagine like half your revenue stream walking out the door. Right. You know?

Because, you know, for like really a 10-year period of time, we were, there were black music department. Straight up in there. So, so, so, so yeah, that's what happened.

But, you know, it's funny, I would see Nas, like over, I saw him on, like over in Europe and everything. And he always said, he goes, man,

he goes, I just wanted to just stay on Roughhouse so bad and, you know, and, it's crazy. Yeah. So,

but he gave me a nice shout out in the surviving the times. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hip-hift. by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from stepbrothers anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My last day at Ruff House, two things happen. One, I don't even know if you're aware of this. My last day of Ruff House was Santi Gold's first day at Ruff House. Oh, wow. as working under DeVita Gar.

Right. And yeah, it was kind of like that Dreamweaver moment. In Wayne's World. Yeah. Who is that? I don't mean to creep you out, Santi. Sorry. That was a long time.

Santi was like, she was Bay of the Century. And DeVita asked me for a favor and said, hey, at you guys' signing point. party in two weeks. Could you let one of our new acts open for you guys? I was like, okay, who is it? And she gives me blunted on reality, which at that point, which at that point was, like, it was a quiet two months, like, I was going to say, Napyheads didn't even have the remix

yet. Right. This is early in the game. I knew when I saw the 8x10 because of the way that soap opera is running my family's houses I was like oh that's the join from as a world turn I didn't even know about

sister act too yet so I just knew her as the troubled kid from As the World Turns so I loved it I was like yeah hell yeah let her do it so how did like so the Fugis came to my attention in two weeks, like Thanksgiving of November 93.

But she told me that you guys had had them long before that. Oh, yeah. So how did you guys... We actually Rose Man. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I'm real big on giving credit where credits do, you know. Was Rose Man officially A&R? Like, what was her job at Ruff House?

who, you know, who's an ANR guy anymore? You know what I mean? It's like a hip-hop label. You know, Monica Lynch said the best music to came, the biggest records that came to Tommy Boy came through their guy in the Puerto Rican guy in the mailroom, you know what I mean? Right, right. So, so you remember the TV commercial, I guess it was in the late 80s, early 90s,

the guys in the cab and the cab driver in New York City has the dreads, you know. they showed that commercial That's Hassan Sharia Hassan. Hassan. He was in Zebrahead. Yes. You didn't see Zebrahead?

I see. I saw it. Yeah, he always. So, yeah, so that's, I guess that's a zebrahead party is where he met Rose. Wow. And so he had. That night during the premiere?

I guess I don't know how she met him. That must have been because I forgot. You rented a bus and took us all to New York City. I did. And that's the, that's the ill-fated night where I remember Clark Kent went back and forth on in vogue's hold on Nas freestyled

I have my one moment with rhyming with nasty naz back you know that was my one moment when I thought I was going to be an emcee and I gave it up after that. For real. Well, I just admit it this is 25 years later so you know I hope nobody recorded that shit

but so he met her that night he must have that's crazy so so what happened was she bugged this shit out of me for for a long time she goes you got to hear this listen to this group listen to this group listen to this group so i'm in my car and uh i i put this tape in and and the first thing that caught me was it like, oh, it's not like hip hop. Like it's hip hop, but there's, you know, he had a whole different thing about it. And so. Well, you're familiar with that because you also had the goats.

Yeah. Yeah. So I thought, I thought, all right, so this is something a little bit unique and different. I didn't know they're Haitian. I'm embarrassed to say this. You know, I thought it was Jamaican, you know. You're back to Jamaica. This old is what's new.

So we go to the, we, we, we, Joe and I go up to their audition at David Sonnenberg's office on the Upper East Side in this townhouse. And, and there was like seven or eight people. Yeah, they rolled deep. But here's what, what basically the thing that right away was that Wyclef, the beat, the beach. the beatbox and the acoustic guitar. And it was like, okay, this is a little different. Right? This is like, and that's what did it for me, you know?

You didn't hear a note from Lauren's voice at all? No, I talk about it in the book. I don't even remember her from the audition. And here's the thing. When we went, there was like six or seven kids. And at the end of the audition, why clef like it's now stripped all's clothes off he's in his boxers going nuts and everything right and i had found out later on they had adjoined for every major and independent we were their last shot they said we were

it so when we went to do the contracts it was there was only three people and i was like well wait where we're we're all these other people that were there right and so anyhow we did the album most of my dialogue was with Wyclef and the manager David Sonnenberg and when we got

when I got the first batch of songs it was really weird because like Praz was like the dominant rapper and I thought you know Praz was good but he's no no no he I'll tell you're ready or not you have to admit he's what he does on that track

no all the score of two The second album, yeah, it was on point. But that blend was all going. But I just wasn't feeling him carrying these songs. And I call up David. And I said, David, you know, this is, this is a problem. And he goes, well, he goes, yeah, it is a real problem. He says, because Wyclef is, or Praz is why Clef's cousin.

I'm like, oh, shit. Now I got to talk. Mm-hmm. But I said, fuck it, you know, lit a cigarette. You got Clef on the phone. And I said, yeah, man, I said, it's cool. but is there any way that, you know, blah, blah, blah, as diplomatic as possible.

Because, oh, yeah, man, I got you, right? Like a week later, different, different thing, you know? You played the back. It's more pushed to the back, you know. And that first album and the touring, and here's the thing, man, and I always said this, there was like three groups,

three hip-hop groups from that day that toured. That was the Fugis, Cyprusil and the Roots Constant Touring Europe Constant Those were the

I remember Scott Thomas You know Scott Thomas Over in the UK Booking agent Uh no Yeah He would tell me he said He goes yeah

All Those he would always say Those three artists Those were the ones You had to Back then But But how about this

Two years After the release a blunted on reality we're still selling 6,800 copies a week sound scan, right? So that's showing that this record, and

I got to tell you, that whole thing with Sony and Columbia was hanging not by a thread, but by like a spider web thread. Like it was they did a show in London

and I wasn't at the show but Luke Verge who later on became head of every like he became my guy for Europe for everything he was our he was head of international marketing

for Columbia Records he's from Marseille and he calls him because of Chris he was I rode in the cab back with these guys last night they're talking about dropping the Fuji's you must do something

you know and I uh I called up Donnie and uh I said Donnie, I said they were going to win Grammys. We just got it.

We got to stay with it. We got to do this and stay with it and everything. Do you know what it is? Like the lack of faith? Because the thing is, I would even like to think that like, okay, the money, by this point, you know, you have some gratitude because the money's good. Oh, yeah. You guys are doing the numbers. Yeah.

Yeah. And yet it's like each time out the gate. Well, no, I'll tell you this. At this point, at that point, I had a lot of confidence in the reality. I'll tell you this, when the first five years at Columbia, right, I was the wimpy kid, you know, I was easily bullied and, you know, talked into shit.

And another diplomatic way. How approachable is Tommy? Is he one of the guys or is... You know what? You'd be like, hey, yo, Batola, fuck you! No, no. Can I tell you something? I got a little story that I'll get into.

All right, so, so, Lauren, this record, right? The Miseducation of Lauren Hill. Yes. Okay. Are we allowed to talk about that record in here? The mis-education? Yes. I know.

No. No. It's inside joke. No, no. No. Inside joke. Inside joke. The record, the record, the, that, the project is the vehicle for the story, right?

Okay. That, uh, she, she was going to Japan to do a show for the Sony executives. Mm-hmm. We had just did this whole thing in, in, in, in, in UK. and and I was going I was going with her to Japan and this is shortly

after my, remember the phone call from the executives about, you know, I, right? Yes. So she's, so we got this big thing happening. Bought my ticket, all ready to go. And I get a phone call.

And it's Tommy's assistant. Oh, Chris. Um, Tommy needs you to come up to a meeting with him in Danny DeVito and who's the woman who runs Jersey films. You know what I'm talking about, right? And I said, oh, yeah, yeah, cool, right? So when's the meeting? She gives me a date.

I said, ah, impossible. I'm going to be over in Japan with Miss Hill, right? And she goes, oh, well, Tommy is. really asking if you could, you know, make this. It's really, really important, you know. And I'm like, and I'm thinking, wow, like, how can I say no? Right. So I said, all right.

I go in the Glickman's office. I said, yeah, it looks like I'm not going to the thing in Japan with myself. I'm doing the. Tommy wants to have this really important meeting with Danny DeVito and all this stuff. and Kevin just laughs at me and he goes he goes yeah what's going to happen

the plane's going to take off and then they're going to cancel the meeting I said I said no it can happen it's not like that and of course the plane takes off they call

oh Danny had to do some reshoots you know and and so and so how else could I look at this, right? And to think that he didn't want me meeting the Sony guy, the Sony, you know, over there. But, you know, the reality is like, what would I do? You know, I'm just, you know, what am I going to talk to these guys about?

You know, I'm just there as part of the, you know, with her and the show and everything. You can't outshine the master. No, but you know, here's the reality. I could never prove this in a court of law. And it's only speculation on my part. But, you know, but the only thing I could say, if that meeting was just so fucking important, how come it never got rescheduled.

Right, right. Because I had called up. So when are we doing the meeting with Danny? And it just kind of like, you know, yeah. So what was your? breaking point because you said that you probably was a pushover for the first like five years but what was the moment when you were like I guess the breaking the breaking point where it's no I didn't suddenly become nasty and mean no just it was just sort of um when when you really like I'll tell you this there's a guy uh his name is Chris Blackwell and he's the founder of violent record he's one of my best friends and he's been my mentor for years.

And when you really get a grasp of the type of money that those companies make, it's mind-boggling. For instance,

at the time, you know, a major distribution power, right? Well, there's manufacturing costs, right? You deduct that. You pay for manufacturing. The company that's manufacturing the record

is the same company. But you're paying, but you're paying for the manual, like in other words, they're paying, you're paying them to manufacture it. You're not getting any break on that, you know? So it's,

and then let's face it. International? okay, I could tell you this, that there was an old time industry account named Bert Padell. Yeah, Bert Padell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it's guys got the biggest. Who is he? He was an accountant. Biggie shouted him out on the 112 remit. Yeah. Bert Padel was that, you know, when you go to do a co-venture, right, as a label, they just don't give it to you, you know? Remember when Andre Herald, the $50 million dollar MCA thing, right?

Right. Or Motown. Yeah, they just don't, when you renegotiate, you got to, you have to come to them with a whole plan, like a prospectus. You have to have projections. You have to have a pro forma. You got to have all that stuff. You have to, because if in order for them to cut loose with that money, they have to be able

to justify it to whoever the board, whatever, whatever it is. but that's part of the process like in any business right so so when i when we did our finally did the co-venture uh i had to get bert pedel to help us put that stuff together because he's got he's got all that stuff but what i the reason i bring them up is that the the majors is that were they one place that they really get you at that time when we had when we relied on the physical product which was the lifeblood of the business was international. Internationally, you think about it.

You, everything is all computerized. So in somebody renegotiates a record deal or something, you can say, okay, for international, we're going to get this particular royalty rate. And they raise it by, you know, a couple points or ever. But somehow somebody forgets to put that in the royalty accounting program, right? So then when you go back and you do a sweep, audit, you would believe the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars that you find.

And Roughhouse, if we were anything else worldwide, we were one of the biggest hip-hop labels in the world because our artists were massive, you know, and, you know, we were making so much money for them. And so at that point, I just kind of felt like, you know, I knew, you know what I knew, you know, mean so it that gave me a lot of confidence in and you know dealing with them so when did you when did you officially leave sony uh in 1999 oh wow right after right after right during the i was having i was having meetings with in l.a with like uh david geffin uh heads of like e m i and Warner Brothers

the day after the Grammys. Yeah. Wait a minute. I forgot because with Rough Nation. Yeah. And then Prada. Oh, what a piece.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that record, man. Oh, dude. You should see the, you should see the video they did with Liz Lighty. It's, it's,

it's, which, rich shot it in this place in Delaware. It's like, it's a white psych that goes around the room. And it's a camera that's on this. like robotic thing. So the way it's one continuous shot. So you see this video and you see like hundreds of people in it, but there's no edit. It just keeps going. It just keeps going.

And it's this whole system with the computer and the camera that's a really awesome video. I can't find it though online. So where did you where did Rough Nation? Was that Warner or? Warner. Okay. I want to be the guy to bring black music back to. Warner's. That was my goal. It wasn't even about money. I actually took less money to go with Warner's because, and to me, the last real things in regards to black music of any significance was icy and Prince, right? And if you want to talk about cold chilling, I'm not sure, but, you know, that was it. And I felt like if I could come there and kind of inject that Ruff House DNA into the gig, you know, that I could do something significant.

So at the time when I started at Ruff House, you guys were just implementing a new system. Sound scan hadn't really started yet. Right. So every day I'm hearing all your people call and saying, Yep. Hey, I need 500 pieces reported in Billboard for this and da-da-da-da. He was a little more subtle than that. Well, I heard some shit.

But my point was then there was a point two months later. Oh, yeah. Where all that stopped. I was like, wait, how come you guys aren't? And people were being let go because they're like, well, we have sound scan now. We don't need that anymore. How crazy when they went when it went from regular, when it went from the bullshit charts to sound scan, suddenly labels like us were the king of the hill. Look like, right, right.

We sat there, man, you're trying, you're, you're working a record and you're legitimately selling records. And yet, you're like trying to break an artist and you're in the 110 spot in billboard. But then you see some God awful thing, like sitting at number 14 that you know is not selling. Right. It's there. And then when sound scan happened, suddenly hip hop was like the first. 20 positions. It was crazy. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't

always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. in this new season of The Girlfriends. Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes,

but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot in luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So how do you feel now today the way the streaming is and Facebook likes, Instagram likes? Yeah, it's just overwhelming for you now?

Well, no, you know, it's funny, not as much as I thought, like, say, a month ago. you know I have I somebody I started a Twitter account and Instagram account like years ago but never paid attention then I just started looking like a couple weeks ago and it's like I had over a thousand followers on each I said oh that's a nice little start you know and so I just started figuring how to

do that guy never paid attention that stuff but in terms of the industry I'll tell you what I think is first off when the whole thing you know digital and streaming. For the first time since the 50s, there's now a level playing field. But if you look at global music revenues, 18% of global music revenues are independent artists. And that's a big thing. I mean, what would that have been 20 years ago? Independent artists. No, it's not signed to record labels. artists putting out music make up 18% of global music revenues.

And so this year is the, I guess I think it's the third year that global music revenues have taken a northernly upturn. You know, because let's face it, ever since the death knell, the stranglehold in the early 2000s, you know. but so yeah so it's growing and it's growing it's going to keep growing and I I'm starting to see you know labels now being a little bit more speculative you know in terms of artists and everything like that and so in walking I've never spoken to anyone that once had a label and then walked away from the distribution deal whatever so what happens to like a group like Cypress Hill will a legacy act. So that album will continue to sell over and over and over again. They bought us out. They bought the artist contract. So they just straight up brought you out.

Yeah. So now. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Because the, yeah, because it was not even not. So yeah, the carnival, that wasn't roughhouse. Yeah, that was roughhouse. Yeah, it was. It was. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I paid for that record personally when we started. Oh, wow. I love that album. That's like. Well, that was here's the thing. You know, they, they didn't like the carnival. When I went the meeting, when I went, when I went, when I went, when I went to the first meeting, here's what happened. Wyclef, Ycliffe, originally, I'd gone to Haiti a couple times with them, right? And we had this idea to do a Haitian, traditional Haitian kind of pop record, right? But it makes it with some like hip hop and everything. And it was, this wasn't good. be like what we call a frontline release. This was going to be like an independent project.

I was going to maybe see if Chris Blackwell wanted to get involved with it on POM and stuff. So we start doing this record. And then next thing, you know, it starts to kind of turn into something else. And now we think like, okay, now this is like a frontline roughhouse release, right? And but I had, you know, spent money at this point. And why Clef calls me up on. on a Tuesday night with Sondonberg to tell me that he booked like an 80 piece orchestra in New York for that Thursday. And it was like, oh, my God.

Oh, gone to November for November. I haven't even gotten to like a budget approved or anything. And I had a meeting with Donnie on a Wednesday. And I played him. I gave him the CD of like the five or six songs, puts it in, listens to it. and does one of the worst things ever that could happen to you when you're trying to get somebody to like something,

he handed it back to me. What's staying alive on there? No, no. Was that the last song we're doing? No, no. But he handed it back and he goes, I don't know, he goes, sounds like something like vacation music or something.

And I'm like thinking, yeah, now I got your orchestra going and shit. Like, ugh. but um Larry worked on that one too right yeah he did he did wow

I love that album man oh yeah it's a brilliant record man it really is yeah it really is but here's the thing that

that the miseducation was the really that was the struggle that was like they first off they didn't want a solo record from her yet.

They wanted another Fuji's record. And of course, who could blame them? Right? Another Fuji's record is going to sell $11D billion, you know, whatever. But the they say, okay, so now she's going to do a record,

but we want, we want Puffy, we want this, we want all these. And the problem was, you know, I had a thing at my house, like a barbecue, and I invited her to come, not thinking that she would come, you know. And her mother called me up and says, oh, yeah, we're coming out. And I was like, oh, okay. So, and we, she came. We hung out for a little bit. And I had my house at the time.

I had this room, like this music room. And she started to tell me about this record. And it was going to be like 60s and 70s soul, like hip hop in this whole, but real organic, you know, of analog and this whole thing. And it's like, cool, all this. And when we, I was in Bath, England with my wife, and it was like 3 o'clock in the morning and the phone rings. and I knew who it was.

I knew it was going to be Tommy and Donnie. And I had given them the five or six songs. Five or six songs from Miseducation. Yeah. Okay. And they said, and Tommy's on speak, Donnie was on speakerphone. He goes, yeah.

Tommy and I listened to the record. And we think the songs are very, very, very mediocre. Oh. Now, now I hang up and whatever I hang up and I'm sitting there in the dark, right? And my wife's asleep and she's like, Chris, what's the matter? I said, they don't like the record, you know? And I'm like, and you know, but you got to, this is, but see for me, you know, okay, I like I said, yeah, I talk all this bravado about my dealings of them and everything. But still, these are two guys who are for all intents of purposes.

pretty powerful guys in the music business, you know, who have years and years of experience, you know. But the one thing that that I held on to was that they were wrong about the Clef record, completely wrong about that, and the record was good. It was just like, it just like, how could they, you know, I didn't. Okay, this is the thing, though. I don't think it matters if it's good or bad Could they no no no I'm just saying but it's the truth Could they not see that it was going to be effective Like how could they not

Because she could have done anything Okay By that point because it would have won Because these guys right I always used to say that I used to tell her this all the time earlier on I used to say you could sing over five minutes of static kiss It'll be a hit record But they lived

they live in these monolithic glass and steel places where everything is about radio and greatest gainer and weekly this and all that and everything is formatted and this and that maria and it's like yeah right but the thing is like i i saw both the carnival and miseducation these to me this was like circa 1968 WMMR FM radio like you know this isn't about this is about a body of work you know and this the thing is it's like um I felt that that I wasn't thinking I not thinking singles you know I'm thinking this but you know Michael Malden was you know we did a white label 12 inch for lost ones we did it roughhouse did it clumbie had nothing to do with it and we didn't even tell them about it we just did it and we sent out it was her idea and we sent that out and oh my god the shit hit the fan i remember that and it could or bad way all right yeah the shit hit the i mean they're oh well here's the they were angry or michael baldn was angry you know because i you know let's face it he was

head of black music department and i just went knowing he's doing right and i just went did that shit right but he said Donnie's going to get ready to blow up your phone but you know what I never heard from Donnie you know why because that would admit to you right no no I never heard from Donnie because it was so incredible the way it started the whole thing it was like that song lost ones what a perfect entree vu for a project like that but they literally had doubts that the album is going to work even though.

Oh, yeah. So how do they feel about the score then? Oh, no, no. Well, well, oh. They didn't expect that. No, no, not at all. But I'll tell you this, they wanted, they, they wanted, not only did they want that, that all that crazy, you know, commercial production.

More karaoke. They, they, they definitely wanted an, a 90s female R&B. singer style photograph on the front of the record. Yeah. So they didn't even like the cover. So think about this. Think about what the cover is.

Think about what they're thinking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now it was like and no, eventually they gave in because I know this, that there was a

marketing meeting and Miguel Begauer and a bunch of people in the room all said that the anticipation and the early feedback and everything was that this record was not only going to be critically acclaimed it was going to be massive and everything and then then of course it you know because it was lost ones and to do to do our right yeah yeah yeah i just can't believe that they didn't know that they had an easy yeah especially after killing me after yeah after yeah that seems like no brain

Well, you know, because killing you softly was never even, it was never supposed to be a single. The Fugis didn't even really want that song on the record. And they didn't want to promote it as a, you know, they did, we did a video and it just, they hated it. So we shot it with them in the movie theater throwing popcorn at each other like a non-video video, right? But yeah, that song, you couldn't stop it. Was that on love? That wasn't on love, Jones. That wasn't a Fuji song.

You're thinking of sweetest thing. Sweetest thing. I think it's possible that both can be right. I mean, it's not, I'm not one of the die-hard. That album changed my life. Technically, that album actually changed my life. In a technical sense, it affected my life. But I think, I'm just shocked that they couldn't see that this was a no-brainer.

Well, they just, they were, you know what, I'll tell you this. they didn't trust their record to have all of it to be pulled off by her and her alone. Okay? Because at that point, she'd gotten rid of her management. She was disassociated with everything and everybody up there except me. Right. And that was it. So it was kind of like, you know, they would have loved. that the A-list R&B 90s

producers, you know? They didn't realize that she was the answer to the coming backlash that no one saw coming. Yeah, yeah, and the thing is, like, I heard all sorts of stories. Somebody said that, you know, that Puffy had this big meeting and pulled everybody into a room and held up the record and says, this is where we need to be going and all this stuff. And it just, it really, you know,

that's crazy yeah how did the lawsuits and stuff affect you guys if at all i don't want to i don't want to say anything you know i knew veda right but here's here's a simple reality the fact that they claim that they wrote lyrics and everything how how because i know these songs and i know everything that she's talking about in the songs you know moving records on south arjave right I used to take records there to move in records on South Orange Avenue. So why would those guys come up with that reference

and that song? How could they have wrote loss? Like, it's so crazy. But here's the biggest thing, right? And here's what it is in the nutshell. If they, in fact, were the ones who made this monumental contribution

to this production, well, why haven't they made a similar monumental contribution to somebody else's production since. You know what I mean? He stole my term. Make another home.

Yeah, that's, yeah, I guess with all due respect, James is not here to. Oh, no, no, James, I know what James did. James, James, he wrote the thing. Right, because I'm like, after a while, it was just like, Lauren did everything.

And then people was like, wait a minute, hold up. Yeah, yeah, I, what? I don't think one person does everything. Yeah, I don't think so. I didn't do everything. Yeah, exactly. But it was a nice mark. It was needed at the time.

I'll tell you what. I know of some major, major, major marking name producers who are out there who are given the ultimate credit for projects that they basically, yeah, they would come in and listen to some mixes and say, okay, do this and do that and go home. and there's quite a few of them and they rely on a lot of people to put the B team, right? Yeah. That's what the B team is all about. Wow. The lessons we learned today.

Well, Chris, we thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Happy anniversary. Today's your anniversary? No, this year is the anniversary of Ruff House, right? I was like, wow. You won't know.

No, we're just, yes. what we're trying to do is to figure out the research and get a definitive date and we're going to probably use when we really just started with Columbia is the real anniversary because that's when all the records that yeah so is 30 or yeah that would be yeah you've been 30 wow oh do we talk about DMX the boom crap I forgot about

how did you find DMX and why did y'all not we did a we we well you know know what the biggest problem was we never like it was a good song but we didn't have the like i never really got to hang out with him or anything you know and we did this song born loser which at the time it was a good track for for when you look at the time when that came out that yeah that was good but uh we only did a singles deal and i think what happened was that by the time we started trying figure out what the next move was, something had already elapsed. And I know that rough riders had already, and, you know, I'll tell you this, I, I didn't get upset or anything because, well, if I, if I was so like, you know, like, if this was something that was important to me, I'd have been up on it, you know?

Right, right. Wow. Who knew? Yeah. Well, I'll end on DMX's board. All right, Chris, we thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Fontecolo, the Bills, Sugar Steve, and Laiaaia. It's Questlove, Questlove Supreme, and we will see you on the next go round. All right. Quest Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio.

This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from I-Heart Radio, visit the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford, and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits, teams look for, to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.