The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Dante Ross

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Music industry exec, A&R rep and producer Dante Ross talks about what it was like working with Brand Nubian, De La Soul, Macklemore and others. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, this is QLS Classic, and we are going way back. Back into time. We're going to episode number three with the great Dante Ross, aka Dante the Scrub, aka Dante who introduced you to so many acts. You can name them. He either a-and-ar them or signed them himself. De LaSalle, Queen Latifah, Digital Underground, Pete Roxiel Smooth, Brand Nubian,

Name them, Calci-Pain, Name them. Yes. Ross damn near wrote the soundtrack of your life and he lived it. One of the most incredible humans ever. One of the best lovers of music ever. Dante the Scrub Ross, QLS Classic. Let's go. Two.

One, two. Supremia, Subrama, Role call. Suprema, Subima, Sub prima, Role call. Suprima, Sub prima, Sub prima, Sub prima, Sub prima, Sub prima, Sub prima, Ro call.

Suprema Role Call. My name is Questlove. Yeah. Wookinper Nubs. Yeah. I'm on here chilling. Yeah. But that's ain't a scrub.

Roe Ho! Suprema, Suprema, Roe Call. Suprema, Suprema, Suprema Roe Call. My name is Fonte.

Yeah. Fonte Golo. Yeah. Shout out to Shazzy. Yeah. And Jiga Ho! Ro car. Suprema,

Supriva, Supriva Roca. Suprema, sub, sub, supremer roll call. My name is Sugar, yeah. Sugar Steve. Yeah. I keep my Kit Katz. Yeah.

Up my sleeve. Oh, ha. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima, role call. Suprema, sub, sub, suprema roll call. My name is Bill. Yeah. Got here late. Yeah.

Now I'm single. Yeah. Need a dick. Roll call. Suprema. Subrima. Sub. Suprema, roll call.

Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema, roll call. I am boss Bill. Yeah. I'm fresh to death. Yeah. Shout out to that crab. Yeah. From Quest Love Chef.

Roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub. You try to get me killed? Roll call. Supremia, sub, sub, sub, suprema, roll call. My name is Dante. I got no words. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You say. Roll call. Suprema, Subima, Suprema role call. Suprema, sub, sub, Suprema role call. What's up, people?

How are you? Welcome to another edition of Questlove Supreme. I was going to say Suprema, but yeah, Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Amir, Kest Love Thompson, and brought a few friends with me. My man, Ace Boon Koon, Shorty Duwop. I don't know what other titles to call you yet, bro. I got a lot of them, man.

I got a lot of them. All right. You're my Al Capone. Oh, yeah. My Eva Peron. Oh, shit. Rolling Stone. Yeah, I'm the yin to the yang.

I'm the Robin to the Batman. Yeah, Fontitola. Yeah, I'm Jerome to the Morris. I hold the mirror. Oh, bro. You know what I mean? Well, we both might just be jellybean and Jesse and not know it. This is true.

I kind of think Boss Bill is Mars. I think he could be Prince. Yeah, I'm about to say Boss Bill is Prince. He's Prince. He's definitely Prince. He cracks the whip. He's Grover Washington, Jr. The accuracy.

That's true. That shit was hilarious. All right. So, Fon, how's the project been going? Everything's going good, man. Tiglero, that's the project with me and my man, Eric Robeson. It's out right now. We've been doing some dates in support of it and everything

And yeah, man, it's going real well I'm just thankful that people like it And I can pay my bills and feed my churn Feed you, chewed. That's about it. That's the life. At the end of the day, that's what life is about. That's what it is.

I'm thankful, man, thankful, happy. You're cheering. How's your cheering doing, Steve? I have no churin yet that I know of. I thought you had some churins, no chirons. How's life going, bro? Good.

All right. Well, I believe you as you took the pregnant pause. No. With no children to say good. Still trying to make the cheddar and so forth, though. Okay. Well, you can't say ER when you say cheddar. It has to be A at the year.

Cheddar. No, I actually meant cheddar. Steve is actually... Maybe we use this platform to help you. Steve has a lifelong obsession with collecting every CTI record that's ever been in existence. Oh, wow. But most importantly, you're looking for the...

What's CTI? CTI is, uh, it's a, uh, not to be confused. Which one of you doesn't know what CTI is? Oh, okay. And everyone listening. No, but I felt that you were asking facetiously and not literally. It's Crete Taylor. Okay.

Well, that's the famous jazz producer. It's one of his labels. It's a label that you're obsessed with. I am. I think ECM is another one of yours too, right? ECM I'm still working on, but I think I have pretty much every CTI record at this point, except 45s, which is what Amir's talk.

Anyway, yeah, I love CTI. Yes. Anything where you tell. Kudu, A&M. You used at A&M first, and then, and before that verve. Is there a particular album that you're looking for that you haven't found yet? Yes, it's called Soul Flutes. Soul Flutes?

Yeah. I actually have that. Yeah, I've seen a few. You said you might have it. I'm actually going to my storage unit in a couple days. Well, that's one of the 45s that Quest gave me was the Soul Fults. It was Scarborough Fair on the A side and Deo on the B side. I think the album's called Trust in Me.

Yeah. Soul Fools was the name of the band. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. And it's like Herbie Hancock on Keys, and I think Ron Carter's playing on it. He was on all the CTS. He was on everybody.

It's good to be in a room with people that actually read the liner notes. that's awesome. That's the one thing I miss about record culture today. Mainly because no one in my life particularly knows that I'm connected to a project with William. I forgot. Oh, oh, I was about to say William the driver? No, I forgot what title we have for. Unpaid bill.

Oh, unpaid bill. Unpaid bill. How are you? Good boy, are you? Yeah. Well, I'm just saying that people don't read the credits, so they don't know. how the Hamilton soundtrack came to be, so.

It's true, but people who listen to theater records do read the credits because they like to read the lyrics because it's not on, it's not on streaming services yet. Yeah, they got to figure that out. I think that's the next step in the whole streaming thing.

They're getting the lyrics together with the genius. They're kind of working the lyrics out. Right. Credits are still, still they haven't done it yet. That's the main reason why I haven't really gone in on credits yet

because I feel like no one's reading it and with social media and writing books, I don't feel the need to pepper albums with album credits as much as I used to. So, what's up, though, Bill? How's life on the street? The streets. Damn. I don't mean like you were homeless.

Suburban streets of Westchester. They're beautiful. Well, I meant the street that you work for. Oh, that street. That street's good. The Muppets are human to me, by the way. I know. I thought I just let the world know that.

Where do you work, Bill? I work at Sesame Street. I'm the music director of Sesame Street. Thank you for asking. And Questlove and I met because he, because he worked on the Hamilton record, but then he then in turn wrote songs for Sesame Street. I asked you one too many questions about the actual Muppets.

Like they were real. But I also learned later that you watch Sesame Street more than my own children and probably more than most people's children, which I was fully impressed by. And your almanackey knowledge, encyclopedic knowledge of music is also in sort of the Sesame Street world, too, which I envy because often people ask, me some deep dark knowledge shit

about Sesame Street and I have no idea what they're talking about. You guys had crazy breaks and you know, I just want to rummage through the entire collection. I was thinking about that the other day. In the same way you're going to your storage set to get the 45s for Steve, we should go to the Sesame Street storage set and just go back shit. I know.

That would be, yeah. It exists. We could go and do it. Yeah, I'm sure they let you do it. Because I want the end thing. That was my favorite. You know what? I'm so mad. Fricking. All right. So in the original like Roots demo, that was like one of the songs that we rhymed over and we put uh we put uh bobby brown's hot pants i'm coming break on top of it

Bobby Byrd Bobby um bobby i said Bobby Brown Hold up that's another Oh drop it on the two That was this project drop it on the two Um yeah Our first demo uh was the the end credits to Sesame Street the break That uh I guess MF Doom rhymed over

And on the second JVC Force album, that was the first single where they rhymed over that break with the Bobby Bird hot pants upcoming. Oh, wow. Yeah, man. It's a heartbreak. It was a heart break, man. Boss Bill. What's up? How's life when you're not bossing me around?

When am I not bossing you around? How's life, man? Life's great. Man, I got somebody to boss around now. And Boss Bill, he's very effective, I will say. No, that's why he's here. No, he's needed. I'm very undisciplined.

I'm very unfocused, you know. Look, I'm Ronald McDonald and Boss Bill is the... Hamburg. Wait, how do you know Ray Crock? Everybody knows who Ray Crock is. Ray Crock, yeah. I don't know who Ray Crock is. Ray Crock.

Ray Crock, he was the owner of McDonald's. He was the guy. How do you know that? the history of McDonald's. I've known that since I was a kid. I think I did too. I read it in a book. And you can just go and jump on that unpaid bill. No, no, no. I'm pretty sure like there's a plaque. If you go McDonald's that has him on it that says race. Yeah, actually, I think there is. I think there is. I actually knew that. I didn't know what CTI was, but I knew about McDonald's. I knew Ray Crock. I knew Ray Crock. Well, I feel horrible that I didn't know that, you know, all the weight that I put on over the years, courtesy of Ray Crock. Yeah, he was the one. He was famous for the quote, I'm not in the, if he would think I'm in the

where he said people think I'm in the hamburger business, I'm in the real estate business. That was his, that was his own philosophy. Did he write a book? He did. Did you read this book, Fontaine? I've read parts of it. My God, fuck it.

You. It was, I mean, this was a long time ago. But yeah, he was dropping some real game in there. He was on some pimps shit. He basically was like, look, like, they talk about how the McDonald's formula, I guess, in the early days was just really, the book was like really thin. But now the shit is like thick as hell. And basically his mantra, his whole thing was like, look, this is the way we do it.

And y'all can either do it like this, or you can step the fuck off. And I respected that. So I forgot the name of the book. I mean, this was used, I was an undergrad. It's called grinding it out. The Making of McDonald's. There it is. There it is.

This was, I mean, this was years ago. I feel really inadequate right now. As a foodie, as a human being. I have Google. So. Your knowledge of some deep dark shit is real. Is real as fuck. Yeah, Fonte, what?

Do you know the history of like, Waffle House, too? You're quoting the quote. Oh, wow. I'm looking at it. I mean, you quote them. Oh, wow. Yeah, there are.

The quality of a leader is reflected in the standards they set for themselves. I don't know, Fonte. Nah, that was, yeah, that was, yeah, I remember that book. Yeah, man. Ray Crock. He was the do. Your memory is. He used the do, well.

That's, that's incredible. That's why you guys are here to really. to really pick up the slack that apparently I don't have. Did you know about Ray Krodt, Steve? No. Thank you for being honest and saying that.

I know all the characters. Are you just saying that to make me feel better? You know all the characters. Me too. The hamburger. Grimmis. Yeah, the mayor. The fry guys.

The mayor of cheese. Didn't they have a little bird for a second? I mean, McDonald's shit. Without the mayor. The mayor. The shit is going to be just out of control. Mayors. I haven't seen Mayor McCheese in a second, bro.

Yeah, is he still? I think they take him out to loan. He got voted out. He got impeached. He did. Is the hamburger? Is he still around? Hamburger's still around.

Hamburger's still around. He had a heart attack, but he's all right now. Oh, Grimmish? Okay. Hamburger had a heart attack. That's like the mate. What was the guy? What was the Marlboro man?

Wasn't he the one to die to cancer? Yeah. The Marble? That's just like when people die of the thing they endorse. Really? Yeah, that shit is kind of. He died of what? throat cancer?

It was some kind of smoking-ass cancer. They got his ass up out of there. Whatever it would. But, um, that, like, what they called it? When he said that, did you envision, like, uh, Sam-Man Sims cane, pulling him? Right, right, exactly. The horse died, too. The horse, uh, oh, yeah, yeah, the horse did die.

The horse did die. I would hope so after 50 years, but. But I thought Fontaine knew the history of what the horse said. No, no, it was, I was thinking, because I'm trying, because now I'm thinking of people who died from the products they endorsed. I know supposedly, I think the Atkins guy, that was the guy, the Atkins guy, Google it. I could be wrong.

I just checked on the Marlboro Man, and apparently four different Marlboro Men died of cancer. God, dang. So, you know, if you get that job, it's a wrap. Yeah, you're cursed. But is there still a quote-unquote Marlboro Man? They're dead. I don't know. Because I know, like, there's all these regulations about advertising and smoking, you know,

they got rid of Joe Campbell and all that, so maybe they got rid of the Marlboro Man, Who knows? Yeah, they did get rid of Joe Camel. Damn, that's right. Yeah. All right, well, this is going to be a very weird segue from. Let's talk about music. It's kind of want to do a slight backtrack, at least, you know, all history is either revisionist or subjective.

So, you know, keep in mind that even though I could speak with a great deal of authority and clarity, I could be wrong. but the guess we have today, I feel is important because I believe that he kind of ushered in what I like to dub the Renaissance era of hip hop. And a lot of times, especially people born after 1985 that hear a bunch of adults sort of moaning and grown about classic hip hop and back of the day and all that stuff. and you know you don't understand eras it's my personal belief of how the era system runs in hip hop is kind of a five-year increment

in which I see things I usually see the evolution of hip-hop in the second year of the decade and the seventh year of the decade and I guess if you look in the 70s I feel like the most important as far as actual revolution and change in music, even though 1977 isn't my personal

favorite year of the 70s, you can't deny the importance of 1977. What is the importance of 1977? To me, probably the most important element of 1977 in music wasn't even music or a person. I believe the velvet rope that separated you from the entry to Studio 54 in itself spawned three different subcultures, not even by design. First of all, I mean, Studio 54, if you've heard the folklore of, you know... It was like Sodom and Gomorrah of Blackclothes. Yeah, it's the penultimate debaerous,

I mean, everything from Bianca Jagger coming in on nude on a horse or anything that could happen. It's proprietors. Who built Studio 54? Steve Lobel. Rebell and Ian Schrager. Ian Schrager, yeah. That's weird because now when you say Ian Schrager, I think of hotels, but I keep forgetting about Studio 54. But the point is that, well, literally for Studio 54, I mean,

Every time that he had time off from shooting the whiz, Michael Jackson was in Studio 54 studying its infrastructure, studying the DJ, studying the people, which I know played a big role in how he crafted off the wall. Off the wall, right. Even getting rejected by Studio 54 gave Atlantic Records their biggest selling hit. Sheik.

Sheeks of La Freak. The Freak, yeah. Which was formerly fuck off from Freak Out. Oh, freak out. Oh, fuck off. Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards get rejected after being invited by Grace Jones to come down to the club. And, of course, they just go to the studio after giving up and resigning to getting in. And they started jamming about Studio 54 and called it fuck off.

And then 10 minutes into it, they were like, wait, this is a hit. This is jamming. Freak out. And then thus, they're a revenge. but not to mention Lower East the village the punk rock scene

and the downtown art scene spawns on the west side you know the a lot of underground gay disco clubs start formulating I mean they've been in existence

but Larry Levin will soon Paradise Garage yeah develop Paradise Garage in the start and in the early 80s, but he was also a disciple of Studio 54 and kind of took their culture to the underground set that wasn't allowed in it.

And of course, up in the Bronx, you have hip hop. Now, between 77 and 82, which, you know, I call the kind of the post-disco period of hip-hop because a lot of what they were rhyming over was just the music at the time, not to mention the five years before that, 72 to 77. the music from that period, Africa Mombada is finding these records in the basements

and sort of recontextualizing them as new music. So now a cut like give it up or turn to loose by James Brown has a whole new meaning. A new life, yeah. Yeah, in a B-Boy nightclub. So that's from 77 to 82. Of course, you know, rappers the light. And I guess the two most important songs of that period,

I would think at the end of the period is the message by Grand Master Flash and the Furies 5, the beginning of like reality rap and Planet Rock, which Arthur Baker and Ben Bada, leading to what I call the golden period, 82 to 87, enter run DMC, sort of like a slow, well, 82 to 87.

Not quite yet. You're born and so, I don't know that. I would probably say that Marley, Mall is the figurehead that really pushed it for production-wise. Also, I got a shout out full force. I mean, they were the first to start using actual great beats inside of their records. And for me, the classic period, when people refer to a classic period, it's the next period, 87 to 92. And the reason why I say the classic period,

if you're born before 85, I'll say that there's a compilation, a 25 record compilation called Ultimate Beats and Breaks, which, shout out to breakbeat, Lou Flores. He compiles all the break beats that Bambata used to spin at his party jams that you previously,

you previously couldn't find. So if you're older, I'd say this is the cliff notes of, this is the cliff notes of breakbeats. Okay, so a breakbeat, of course, is the good part of the record. If there's a record that has a drum break in it, that you're able to rhyme over. An instrumental drum break. No singing over it, no keys, no guitar.

So when you hear older producers refer to stuff like impeach the press, They're not talking about getting rid of your country's leader. They're talking about a certain breakbeat. By the honey drippers. Yeah. I mean, it's often debated what's the greatest one. For the folklore of James Brown's funky drummer, I will kind of say that I believe that impeach the president is the ultimate breakbeat. Which even when you beatbox, as an older person, when you beatbox, the beat that you do is always

you're doing impeached the president even without knowing it. So just saying that where previously they used to take these records and wash the labels off and you didn't have Shazam to know where these breaks were coming from that B-boys were going crazy to. Lou Flores now put compilations out. And pretty much the hip-hop nation ate it up from public enemy to NWA.

Anybody that was making stuff between 88 and 92, was using and abusing ultimate beats and breaks, which leads to the next period, which I call the Renaissance period. Now, on the East Coast, this is especially true. On the West Coast, of course, Dr. Dre will kind of take the rain and just ride till the wheels fall off. Or did they ever fall off?

Did they ever fall off? They never fell off. But for the East Coast, what makes our guest Dante Ross so notable is the fact that he is starting to sign Axe, who they find ways to make music that's outside of the ultimate beats and breaks paradigm or just the boundaries. There's a line that Drez from Black Sheep says to take funky drummer and give it back to James. So there was a period where James Brown and George Clinton was... They played out, yeah. Was a played out idea because it got used and abused. Like, people just make songs out of whole entire volumes.

I'll take the drums from track number two and I'll add the bass line from track number three and then put the keyboards and scratch in from track number five and all these different combinations. Like you could pretty much predict what hip-hop would sound like for the next year by what Ultimate Breaks and Beat album was out. Exactly. So by the time 1992 came, there were a group of producers, large professor, Pete Rock, yeah, Q-Tip, DJ Premier, Jazzie Jeff. I mean, a whole bunch of cats that were using jazz records, stuff that wasn't on Ultimate Beats and Breaks. and using it as their canvas and their backdrop. And that's what I deem the Renaissance period of hip-hop.

This is Questlove Supreme, Foncigolo, Sugar Steve, Unpaid Bill, Boss Bill, welcoming Dr. Renaissance himself. Give it up for Dante Ross, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, oh. Yo, yeah, what up? What up. Dante, I have so many freaking questions to ask you. I'm so scared right now.

Nah, man, you know. I guess scary. No, I'm like, dude, you, if, I mean, everyone always has this like, oh, the soundtrack of my life. But, I mean, you, you're like one of the unsung heroes of the, the Renaissance period of hip-hop. Like, you were there to witness a lot of his historical firsts. So I'm going to try to come off like a professional journalist that I am and not just a fan. Well, first I got to know about your beginnings. Like, where did you come from?

So I was born in San Francisco, California. I moved here when I was two, and I grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. My mother was a school teacher, and I grew up on 9th Street and Avenue B and then 2nd Street in Avenue B. So you were in the period of New York when that part wasn't even gentrified or? Spanish was. was the language of my block. Really? Oh, wow. That's when it was Alphabet City.

I grew up in almost entirely Puerto Rican neighborhood. A lot of us with, you know, there was a period where I just thought a lot of the important white players of classic hip-hop, I just thought you all were Puerto Rican because in my mind I couldn't even conceive. Like, I thought the Beastie Boys were Puerto Rican. I mean, I wanted to be Puerto Rican. I couldn't wait to grow a mustache. My boys called me Sorda Rican growing up.

Which was better than Jew who, the other one they called me. Ah, that's so. Wait, these two just woke up like, wait. I definitely was, I passed for a Puerto Rican whenever possible as a job. So when, so how did music enter your life? I mean, music was always in my house. My mom loved music. She loved soul music.

Like, she loved Otis Redding and Bill Withers, was Aretha Franklin. And she also likes singer-songwriter stuff like Neil Young and Bob Dylan. And my pops is a, he's an old, like, jazz dude. So he was, like, always into jazz. And I grew up up the block from a famous jazz drummer named Ed Blackwell. Okay. And he played with Ornette Coleman and a ton of people.

And I was in his house a lot, and I was just always around music. Like, I remember going with him and his family even to Hear Ornette and M.J. When I was, like, eight, nine years old. So, you know, and I lived on top of his social club. and my bedroom was right on top of the jukebox, and they were playing stylistics and dramatics. Everything that was popping back then, Edward Devon and Superfly.

I went to see it when I was nine or ten. My sister's boyfriend took me, and I just was always around music. We had block parties on my block. So I loved disco and all that kind of music when I was young, and I just grew up around it. It was always omnipresent in every environment I was in as a child. So was it to the point where you felt like

this is a career or just like, It's just having to be around. No, no, definitely not. I had no idea, but I did, I always, like, read the back of record covers, and I always wanted to know, like, Steve Cropper was. Because I was like, who's that? Who's that guy? And who's Jerry Wexler?

And I always wanted to know who people were. You know, who's this guy and that guy. I was just fascinated by the names. Like, I want to know who the guys were who weren't the artist. And I had a family friend, Joel Brodsky, he's a famous photographer. And he shot the Isaac Hayes Movement. album covers. He shot all the stacked stuff.

And because being around Joel and his coming to graffitia, I saw a lot of the imagery, he shot like funkadelic records and all the stuff. So I was always into it. My sister's eight years older than me too, and she was a music head.

So I always played her records and whatever she was jamming, so I basically got into it. Ah, I see. My sister was mad hood. True. She was like super hood when we were growing up. Trickle down, well, oftentimes I notice that people that, especially in music, today,

a lot of it is trickled down from older cousins, older siblings. Are you the youngest of your brood? I am. Well, I have a younger sister, but I wasn't raised with her. I have sister. So, yeah, I am. You mind me asking, what year were you born? 1965.

Okay, okay. And I inherited my sister's record collection. And much later, like, Joel gave me a lot of his records as well. And I got my mom's records I was, a lot of the records that I had came from my family, you know, that I still even have. And so I was always like aware of records like Just Begun

and So McCosa and all those records. I listened to them all as a kid. I knew them all, so. So did you know about it from just having it or just from a hip-hop perspective? No, I knew from having it and because they had block parties in my neighborhood and

they'd always play those kind of records. Just Begun for sure. And stuff like Funky Penguin and all those kind of records got played. So, you know, people were in the street dancing and it was just the music around me as a child. Do you remember the first album you purchased? Definitely, Jackson 5, Christmas album. Wow.

Yeah, 100%. Crying, crying, don't cry. Don't cry. Yeah, I used to, my parents used to make me perform that Jermaine's get. Do you have the Christmas album? I do not have the Christmas album. My Christmas album was the James Brown Christmas album.

I mean, I was a Jackson Five fanatic. Oh, the well-fews. Fair one. Yeah, James, Santa Claus coming to the girl. That's a good one, man. Yeah, I got it. No, but there's one song where, like, James is talking about, like, he's so down on his luck that he even went to the welfare and couldn't find Santa Claus there. Yeah, that was my Christmas album. That one spoke to my reality.

I was a Jackson 5 fanatic. I bought all the 45s, ABC, want you back at Bates record store on the Lancy Street. My sister would take me. I get my line, so I buy 45 almost every week. How much more 45 is back there? $0.75. Jesus Christ. Wow. So just a record of weekend. Record a week.

That's amazing. I bought all the hits. You know, Casey in the Sunshine Band, SOS, not SOS, sending new SOS, the Hughes Corporation, all those records. You know, I bought George McCray, you know, whatever was popping right then.

You know, whatever was out, I bought whatever was on the radio, I went and bought them. That's probably, the mom-and-pop record store to me. like the local mom and pop record store is like the one element that... I remember the first rock record I ever bought was Queen, Bohem and Rhapsody.

I heard it on the radio. I lost my mind. I couldn't comprehend what it was. And I listened to radio all day today, played it again. And then I went and bought it a couple days later. So did you record songs off the radio? I did. Before line in line out, like record...

Yeah, with my tape player right there. Up against the speaker. Oh, yeah. You used to do that with Soul Train. You used to put the tape. Oh, that's ill. Audio recording. I wasn't that technically advanced.

I wasn't that savvy yet. We used to have Soul Train parties, too, and my friend William Dickerson's house down the block. Soul Train would come on a wheel, and his mom would have us to the Soul Train line. Wow. Really? Yeah, yeah.

I grew up on a block. There was like seven Puerto Rican kids, two black kids of me. So you were just alone? Just like Sesame Street. What it was. McDonald's Land. No, so you were just a lone white kid?

Yeah, man, it was all good, though. Did they hesitate to remind you of that every time? No, I thought my middle name was white boy until I was about 15. There was always, there was always like one cool white boy, like on the block, though. Like even. Yeah. It's pretty much true. White John was a kid in Southwest Philly.

It's usually white Mike, usually. We had a white mic. We had a white mic. Now, did you have to overcompensate? Because Chappelle hilariously says that. Whenever you see the one lone white guy hang with a bunch of brothers. Yeah, he's extra. Wow.

I had to be when I was young for sure. Ain't no telling what he did to get their respect. Yeah. I think that you can apply that to like light skinned black people too. Like all the revolutionary are light skin. Like they be the hardest most. Most revolutionary. Yeah.

Huey Newton was, yeah. Over-competitive story. Besides Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King, every revolutionary we had was light skin. Like in the 70s in New York, people were just taking your shit. You were just, people was getting robbed. Like, you just got taken all the time if you didn't step up. So, you know, you know,

I just had to be strength in numbers, and you had to be... You didn't have an older brother or older cousin? I had an older cousin, but he was a dophine. So he wasn't helping a lot. So you didn't have the luxury of him. The fuck you are? My sister went out this big black cat named Sam Lewis,

and Sam used to put it down. Sam was like, no, that's my little G. You can't listen. I have respect from Sam. Yeah, that's the one thing you never wanted to hear it on the playground, which was I'm going to get my... Someone's old to fuck you up. Like...

Call it in the cavalry. True. I was a good athlete as a kid, too, so I always, like, had some dab because of that. I played at the boys' club, and I played basketball, baseball. I was like a real jock when I was young. So, you know, I always got a pass because of that. All right, so as you got older, I mean, how did, I know that block parties were always, you know, in your life, as you said. But, I mean, did they have emcees there?

No, no emcees. It was pre-MCs. It was really pre-Rap. Rap wasn't on the map yet. And I remember, I think I was in sixth grade when I first heard rap. And it was a Sugar Hill Gang. And my friend Columbus Van Horn told me that that was his dual grandmaster Flash. And he got me a tape.

It was in seventh or sixth grade. And he lent me a tape. And that tape was one of the flash tapes. I think it was 50 beats. One of those. And I had birthday party on it. I remember that clearly. And I used to just listen to it all the time.

I don't want to give him back his tape. And finally I had to give it back. because I didn't have a tape to tape back then. I don't know if they were invented yet, but that's when I really started to be enamored by what was becoming rap. And Anne kind of saw that there was something beyond just that Sugar Hill record.

Really? Yeah, and then I heard Led Zeppelin and all that shit and I kind of like lost interest, you know, because it was uptown. It was like, you know, when Sugar Hill came out, that was like a novelty hit. That wasn't like, there wasn't a lifestyle attached to it yet, at least where I lived.

Like, we didn't know about that, really. So there was a period in which you were going to just not go straight rock, but you discovered the... Yeah, and I also like funk. I was really into funk, too. I was into like Brothers Johnson and stuff like that. Like I like Parliament, Brothers Johnson, all that stuff that was out at that time. Because funk was kind of like, was the middle ground, you know,

it wasn't like it was kind of half rock. And it was just kind of what you listened to back then. Funk was popping. And you weren't a DJ or had aspirations to be one? No. You just happened. to know a lot of information about records. I know a lot about records.

Wow. I always collective records. So that must have been amazing to, at least, there was a point where it was a novelty for a white person to know a lot about black music. You think? At least around my way. Like, I remember to be impressed with this kid,

I think Danny Digitonio. I forget his last name, but he knew, he knew Geno's such a granchi He friends with Columbus Van Horde No, no no but he knew Don't mess with my man Columbus I mean that's a name

If you call Columbus Columbus Columbus he'd be like Yo my name's Jackie Straight up No but he knew T connections Like grooved to get down Like something that was so obscure and so Breakbeat black

That I was like Wow you really know your records I mean we used to roll a disco When we were young Like so that was also like You know all those records We were rocking with You know, like slave, touch of love, all the roller disco jams.

Oh, wow. So when you became a professional. Am I a professional? That's open to debate, man. Well, how did you, was Def Jam your first label or, like, did you? Yeah, yeah. Actually, the myth is I worked at Def Jam. I actually worked at Rush Productions.

And there was a difference? Not really. There was like, well, like, if you worked at Rush, you got Leor's lunch. If you worked at Dev Jam, you got Russell's lunch. That was the difference. So, what's the difference between, well, yeah, I mean, both, both logos held holy for anybody that was. Rushtown, man. So what was the difference between the two worlds?

About what I just said. Lunch. The lunch. Leo was meaner than Russell. Really? Oh, yeah, please. Still is. Even when he was younger?

Oh, he was meaner than. He's nice now. Lear's so gentle now. Yeah, he's a nice. I mean, I love Leor. Even when he was mean, Lear, like, that. Lear, I might not have a life. So I love Leor. He's, he's, he's my, that's my rabbi.

All right. So Leor, uh, can I, can I, can I, do I have the liberty to say that Learer effectively replaced Rick Rubin? I wouldn't say that. There would, there was, there was a lot of, so was there, was there, was there, was there, was there, was there, was there, even at Def Jam when Rick Rubin was at the home? Not really. So Rick, and Rick, and Rick never went to the office. And, and once Rick realized how important he was. He wasn't around a lot and he wanted to make rock records. And really the Beastie Boys and everything that happened licensed to ill was to divide between Rick and Leor. That's really when it all happened. Okay. So to update the those that are listening, of course,

Def Jam is probably the most important hip-hop. A hundred percent. Label. It's the foundation. It's the Motown. It's also the first label or, or a hip-hop entity that was cognizant that cool white people were an active and participant and monetizable audience in rap music. And Russell's the first guy to see that. You know, that's why he's so smart. He realized he could sell Run DMC to white America,

that he could sell rap music to the middle of the country. I always wanted to know why he wouldn't put Run DMC on Def Jam. And they tried. They were signed a profile. Yeah, they were signed a profile. Was the contract that extended? They tried. They tried.

And those guys, you know, like... They lost years over that. They did. They lost three years. It kind of ruined their career. Mm-hmm. Because it gives that gap between... Tougher than leather and...

Tough than leather and... Back from hell? No, no, no. What back from hell? It was... Raisin hell. Raisin hell. It was...

Oh, yeah. So those three years? Yeah. 100%. That's when the game changed. Even in the book, the Run Demc book, they talk about it. Because at the time, when that came out, they were done. They were done.

They were done. He said... DMC, he said he said he knew. it was over when I think, I guess the Tumble of the Leather came out and they were listening to Nation of Millions and they were just like, dude.

100%. We're done. 100% right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they wanted to get them off there and Corey Robbins and Steve Plotnicki. They had them hemmed up. They couldn't get them off the label. But my working at Def Jam, like I so I grew up kind of with the Beastie

boys. I know him since junior high school and we were all in the punk rock and then hip hop came along and we all got swept up in that. That was, that kind of took our lives. So it was really run DMC. That was the band we heard and they sounded so punk rock. Like they were so abrasive and it was like they dressed like the audience. They didn't dress like a broke Rick James.

So we were like, yo, this is the craziest shit ever. And that was really what like, that's what hooked us for life. That's what it was. Yeah, cats have to know that, you know, early hip hop was just mirroring. It was disco. It was disco. Yeah. And P-Funk was still a thing, so, you know.

I'm sure the Africa Mombada and then we're trying to emulate the crazy outfits. Yeah, it was, if anything, Run DMC was, they were what Nirvana did to metal bands in 91. To hair band, yeah. 100%. Run DMC did to. They changed, and it happened to Run DMC. Yeah. Cats, you know, cats showed them the door, you know.

Because they stopped, because cats stopped hollering. MC stopped. It wasn't about the- Well, Rakim was. Rock him was intricate and, you know, that was it. Every five years. But, yeah, but back to Leorre. So, okay, so Leoror, what was, his position was, I mean,

he was a president of Rush Productions, a Rush Town Management. Okay, so he was, did he hire you? So I got hired, this is the craziest. So I got hired because my friend Sean Carvers off, rest in peace, a.k.a. the captain, he roamedged the Beasties. He was like my best friend. And he plugged me up with the job. Ricky Powell went on tour with the Beasties.

I stayed and I mean my lady wouldn't let me go on tour I had a girlfriend at the time where I lived with him she was like no way you're going on tour with those guys I can imagine

because I met Ricky Powell in his later years Ricky Powell was like well by then he was there their I'm about to say Corgestor well they called him

the trim coordinator no no no no no Dave Skilken rest in peace you're right Dave Skill was the trim coordinator You're right. And Dave, Dave was the coolest cat ever.

Dave and Ricky were like, you know, I love Ricky, but Dave was infinitely cool than Ricky could ever be. I met. Dave had game for days. So, yeah, I guess I met the Beastie Boys and they're like responsible Buddhist. Yeah, you met them in the Dalai Lama year. Yeah, like they were vegan stage

and they were all responsible and respectable and everything. And I was looking for like the beer cans and the phalanx symbol. That's what House of Painting them told me, too. They wanted to tour at the Beastie Boys and they wanted to like, Where's the exploding dick? Yeah, man. They were like, yo, what do you mean?

Like, you guys don't go out and get drunk and beat people? Like, you don't go crazy? So by that point, yeah, he was taking photos. He was taking a lot of photos. He was also, yeah, he was being nefarious. I'll leave it at that.

But, I mean, I could imagine how crazy Ricky Powell was during that license. So you went on a license to ill tour? I was on the first leg and then I came home. Yo, what was that like? What was that like? It was a little wild, man. I remember I went to L.A. with Eric Hayes, the graphic designer, and we ran around with them dudes, and we got him a skateboard deal. That never came out, and that was like the first thing I ever did in the business when I first got a job, and I guess I'd hit a home run, and they let me hang out for a while, and then I went home and stole Ricky Pals' job.

Basically, Sean was like, yeah, Dante should do it, and I was the office flunky. But I went out every night. I went to nightclubs every night, and I started to hang out with Russell a lot. And all those guys, they took me out, and they always asked me what records were the records. Like, what's popping up here, what's pop, I'll go to Latin quarters, spots they weren't going to. And they always want to pick my brain. And I realized, like, hey, I might know something. I might maybe be an A&R guy.

And Bill Stephanie, aka Mr. Bill, wanted to hire me as an A&R guy. And they didn't give me the job, but he always was like, yo, I want to hire you. He always told me, you really know music. And he was like, one of the first guys who really let me. I mean, no. And the guy, Chuck D, too. Chuck D and me were rap about music forever. So I give a lot of props to Chuck D.

Did Bill work at Def Jam proper? Yeah, he did. He was the public. I think he was the president. Bill Adler was a public. He was Bill Adler. Yeah, I think he might have been the president's on Bill Stephanie, Mr. Bill. And he grew up with public enemy.

Wow. So just during that period, like what, I mean. I mean, it was me, Faith Newman, Bill Stephanie, Bill Adler, Hank Shocklib, you all worked in the office. Lyor Cohen. And like you never knew who was coming in the office, run came in one day and yelled at LL. like it was just wild.

It was like there was antics going around. And I became friends with Jammaster Jay. I used to play ball with Jay a lot because I was like I was really into playing basketball back then. Were you official? Did you have a first edition of Def Jam jacket? I did. I had a burgundy jacket for sure.

So did that mean everything? That meant you could get into any club for free. and definitely meant that chicks were checking for you. And it coincide. I was in the Stozy ad back then, too. So between those two things... Between those two things, it was like I was like 19, 20 years old, and I could do a lot of things.

I was brand name below 14th Street. So you mentioned the Latin Quarter. Latin Quarter. I've never heard a club more name dropped in classic hip-hop. I mean, because that's where the changing the guard comes from. And that's where that next wave came from. Can you tell me what a typical night was in the Latin quarter? Typical night of the Latin quarters was...

What night was it? It was Friday was the night you wanted to go. So Red Alert DJed. And it was always Brooklyn Violator Beef. That was always possible to jump off. He said beef. Beef, like serious beef, like for real, real live beef. See, because when you went to rap shows back then, it was dangerous.

Like, and... And you didn't care? I mean, I'd have nothing to take. What are you going to take? My deaf jam jacket? No, I don't have no. I had $36, man. So if someone were coming in profiling, like,

with a bunch of slick Rick Gold on, there could be a shit. People were taking your shit. It was it. Four Green Mission Posse. All the dudes on the back, Eric's album, they might grab your shit. Or some other people.

Or the A team, Keynes people. You know, there was a lot of people out there who were doing a lot of things. And I was friends with Red, so I had a pass. I didn't have to check my coat. I could go upstairs, hang out with Red.

That's how I met, I met, I told I met, D. Nice. I knew Karras won back then. Search is the only other white dude I ever seen that. Oh, and Dave Funkin'Kline, rest in peace. You know, it was a wild environment. But, you know, you'd see like a great act you might as to Just Ice and KRARS would come out.

I seen Dougie battle BizMarkey on the beatbox at the anniversary, and Dougie pulled out the harmonica and Slade Biz. What? Doug did the harmonica? Played the harmonica. And B-box at the same time. And B-Boss at the same time. And did the cool ass with Dougie dance.

and he was just... I mean, Doug, to me, is the greatest dude who didn't have the biggest record ever because he was the best performer, pretty much. I mean, he was amazing. I saw MC Lights for a show. I seen Kane DJ for Chante. He was the DJ back then.

He would DJ for everybody. Before he was an artist. And my friend, my friend Keio, he's another white guy, but he was so extra, extra. My man Blake Latham, he told me that Kane was the best rapper in Brooklyn, and I wanted to bring Kane in the office and Russell said,

nah, he's fucking with flat time them and we can't steal artists from her because we're doing their deal at Warner Brothers. I remember that Chris Rock used to do comedy up there. I mean, it was, you know, Karras, one of them. It was just wild. How big was this club? Like, how many people could have it? Maybe a thousand people, not even, maybe, you know, small.

It was 46th, right? Right there. It was, you know, upstairs. It was Heather Hunter was a co-check girl. What's the sole food? What's the sole food spot on 45th? I mean, Poppaz was over the first street. Virgil's. Yes.

Virgil's. Oh, okay. That is... That's the Latin Quarter? No. Or at least across the street. The hotel that's across the street. Latin Quarter's on Broadway.

It was right on the block between Broadway and 7th. It's not there anymore. It's a parking lot now in a big building. It's been torn down. So it's not on 46th year or 45th? It's on 46. It's not there anymore. Popeyes was right across the street.

McDonald's was a black guy. Oh, guys. Is it bad? I don't remember where the Popeyes is. So I saw Salt and Pepper. I seen Sandy get a chain taken right in front of Popeyes. Wow. Wow.

It was like, yeah, that's a nice thing. Bang. Is that just typical? Like, that was how it was. I mean, you know who I knew back then, Clark Kent. That was my man. Shout out to Clark Kent from back then. He was always the coolest cat.

He was cool back then. I love Clark. He got me my deal with Nike. That's my big guy, man. I love Clark. That's my brother. So you would go there just on the week. I go every Friday, every Friday for about a year,

I go to Latin quarters, and it was just a wild spot. Other spots we go to Red Parrot was popping on 57. occasionally that that became the Copa then there was downtown parties like payday Milky Way man I mean I went to like I went everywhere man I went to the rooftop I went to everything you know I went to skate key

So was there a difference between the Harlem parties and the Oh hell yeah So what's a rooftop party what's the difference between I mean could Karr's one go to Harlem and Of course he would kill it I mean the rooftop was like for 100% I'm the only white guy there 100% and downtown parties

you know they had much hotter girls less threat of violence so the rooftop was more violent there was quarters no quarters was the most violent because dudes from Brooklyn went to go to the rooftop right because they didn't check your coat to get in or anything they had to check your coat everywhere except

if you knew people at the quarters you don't have to check your coat so if you came with red alert you don't have to check your coat depending who you came in the door with so you know It was hierarchy. Wow, while I was. So this guy ran the Latin Quarter's name was Mike, Mike Goldberg.

He was a Jewish guy. He'd be at the door, he'd be at the door, and his dude Pee-wee who got killed was the bouncer and this dude house. And I knew them all. They would all be like, oh, you're good, who you're with? Like, come on, you're good. So I got to know them all. So much history.

Quarters were I saw everybody. That's where everyone came from, though. Karras 1 came, Bismarkey, Jews crew, rock him, everybody. Can I ask you, have you seen somebody not make a good impression on the Latin Quarter Club that otherwise became... Wow.

Wait a minute. New Music Seminary. MC Hammer performed at the Latin Quarter? During the New Music Seminar when the quarters wasn't even a spot no more. He didn't rock. I mean, he had all this. My chronological order is bad, but I know

Grand Pooble was there too because we're laughing. So would that possibly be the... incident that's being referred to at the beginning of the Turn This Mother Out video. 100%. They say you ain't hitting in New York. 100%. Okay. So that was 87, 88?

Maybe 88 because of course was on the way down. Wow. Yeah, because this album was 88. So maybe 87. Yeah. Wait, in my head, I'm thinking like you're speaking of 1988, 88, 89, 90. So you're saying that it was on a decline even in 88? 88 it was on, it was starting to be a little too violent.

Little it just wasn't popping like it was. Because you could go to downtown parties and it wasn't as violent, right? And there was more girls. All right. So a nerd like myself, where would I go? What year? 89. Now, mind you.

89. I was in the basement and a home study. You might go to Nels or you might go to Milky Way, depending on what you want to do. Pop-eyes. For sure. Pop-eyes, one-go. McDonald's. All right.

So should we get in a block of music before we start talking about his life as an A&R? Yo, man, I got to geek out just on hip-hop folklore. This is Dante Ross on Quest Love Supreme, only on Pandora. I guess we're going to go into some SD-50 stimulated. What is stimulated dummies? So, Buster Rhymes gave us a name because he was like, y'all some stimulated dummies when we were working with L-O-N-S way back. Who were the stimulated dummies?

It was me, my partner, John Gamese. and my partner, Gibi DeJohnny, and we all had various roles at different times. John was the engineer, me and Gie Bore the diggers. Wow. That's incredible. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger

than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something

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Three strikes to five thousand. So that was. Three Strikes, 5,000. Third base on Questlove Supreme, produced by our guest, Dante Ross and the stimulated dummies, the SD50s. So I guess we should start with... You know what those drums are, right?

Hmm. I just copped a clean copy of the 45 again, too. What is it? It's a super fine from behind woman by the Cleveland wrecking crew. Wow. I'd never get to... I was with Large the other day and I was like, you got this? He was like, damn.

So you're still digging? I still dig for 45s. Large and Diamond got me back into it recently. I'm, yeah. I've been running around with large lately. Large pro was like, he just, he took me back. Yeah, I thought I was out the game of digging and then I saw Diamond cutting, Diamond D cutting these records on YouTube, 45s.

And then like, and then it pulled me right back into it. He was cutting the Booker Tee. He was killing it. I wanted to get out. I literally wanted to get out the game of digging. And now it's... Keep calling me. I'm just on the 45s.

Yeah, no, same here. Like, I'm only collecting 45s now. And is it because we're bored or we just want... We're old, we're bored. I bought every sneaker. I don't need any more Jordans. Got a house. What am I going to do?

So how did you become ANR? Was it by design or just... Nah, I was done? the fault, man. I was just, I knew music, and I was always around, and, uh, daddy-o from Stetsasonic. He loved me. That's, that's my OG. And he, they offered him a job at Tommy Boy, and he plugged me in. And he was like, I'm, I don't want to do it, but my little homie right here. And I went to meet Monica and she liked me. And I had a second interview. She played me, De La Sol's demo. And I lost my mind. And she hired me a couple of days later.

This is Monica Lynch? Yep. Monica Lynch, who's also, uh, she's like, one of my mentors. She's one of the smartest people and the most integral people I've ever worked with. She's a wonderful person. So, well, not what was it like working at Tommy Boy? Tommy Boy was wild. That was, uh, man, that was a wild job, man. I was a wild kid back then, too. It was like a whole different life. The, the one thing that Poss told me that blew my mind. I'm scared right now. The one thing that Pasta News, uh, told me that blew my mind. I'm not. without making three fee high and rising, was the fact that they made that entire record

for about $25,000, which, if you know what record budgets are, I mean, even in the height of overindulgent recording budget figures, let's pick a, let's say, 1994, if you're successful, R&B act. I know that in Vogue was, I think the second budget for, their budget for Funky Divas was like in the area of $2 million.

Whereas, you know, a cat like Michael Jackson, you know, I'm certain that his budget was closer to $10 million for like, even a compilation like history. History, yeah. But...

Somebody had to pay for that statue. He loaded down a river or some shit. It's a lot of animals, Yeah, but how in God's name were these budgets being, like, that's the first thing I would ask a lot of my favorites about, like, what were the recording budgets? Like, Cypress Hill told me, like, well, we had a good budget, 90,000. And I'm like, what? Yeah. You can't, how?

I mean, people were just so happy to get on. You know what I mean? And studio time was cheap. And the crazy thing about De La is they made most of our record in the studio. It wasn't like they came with like anything. We were all recording analogs. Everything's done in real time. You know, and they came in with the records

and sampled half of them right there. It wasn't like Paul was showing up with discs. It was like most of that stuff got made right then and there. And with the samples, how did you guys handle that at the time? Well, we cleared all except one the one we got caught for. The turtles. The turtles.

It was just an interlude. Skit. It doesn't count. And, I mean, the one thing I'll say about De La and Paul is, They had a lot of those ideas already. And you know this, you know this quest. It's like you have a lot of that stuff mapped out in your head already. You know, I'm going to use this with this, with this, with this,

so when you get in the studio, because you don't have any home equipment, you do your stuff mad quick. You know exactly what you're going to use. It's kind of like you've already sorted it out in your mind. All right. So we have Bob Power also on Quest Love Supreme, and I was trying to get him. So Powers did some of that record, not that much, though. Right.

But my point was that the most important element of what made three fee high and rising, three feet high and rising were the skits. And I was trying, I mean, the way that it felt, it felt like it was happening in real time. Right. It felt spontaneous. Right. But I know that, you know, mics have to be set up and samplers have to be pressed and looped and all these things. So something like take it off.

just a mindless litany of of them dissing fads and hip-hop sounds rather it sounded spontaneous at the time or even can you keep a secret

where I first heard Dante is a scrub Why did they call you a scrub by the way? This is great So like I was... Were you the boss Bill of Three Fion Rising? I don't know about that. I was

really into playing sports back then and just athletic like it's like a skateboard and all that and we went to play basketball in L.A with some of the rhyme syndicate and those dudes couldn't play ball I was like Jesus Christ you fucking scrubs I was like look at you guys like really and that's really where it came from

and then another time we went to Houston it was like 110 degrees and they wouldn't go swimming and I like you know I was in the pool like are you kidding me you scrubs like you ain't going in the water and they like wouldn't go in the water so that was that and that's they were like okay, we got you. So when they're turning this into you guys,

like, I mean, how do you A&R 3 Fe High and Rising? I mean, I was there the whole time they made it pretty much, so it wasn't like they were turning it into me. I was like, I was in the studio like 90% of the time. And we were just enamored because the first two singles had hit. We knew we had something. And the biggest quandary was, do we put the album out in October, November, we saved it to the next year?

And we pushed it back. I was going to say you released it in January of 89. Yeah, yeah. because we didn't want to put it out at the end of the year in the fourth quarter and have it miss. And, you know, me, myself and I, it's funny because that was not one of the first songs they gave us. But when we heard it, we knew what was a hit and what was ironic is that the first two records, we had, we had K-Day on retainer, basically. And so they had a big West Coast audience. We would go to K-Day every time we're out there.

I went with them. We did shows at World on Wheels, which was the craziest crypt-out spot ever. and man we had an audience out there you know so that was the Latin quarter of the West Coast that's when we first seen gang bang and me and Paz almost got arrested jay walking on the street we seen dudes of Jerry Crows all that I met Dre back then I met Dre and Ice Cube it was it was bugged out we met 73 we met Cyprus before there was Cyprus like all that oh cool man Cipras before they were Cyprus like all that oh cool one in Cali I forgot about 703 that was the Alchemist uh was it that was Mugs oh I'm sorry Mugs I was like 12 years old we don't know on us look alike Who was Al How was in the hooligans Hooligans? Damn, I'm tripping.

I'm getting my West Coast history mixed up. Mudfoot. Wow. So how do you sell De La Sol because... Well, we already had a captive audience so it wasn't a hard sell.

That's, you know, that's what you're taking out of the equation. They already had a validated fan base. We knew it. Those singles were selling. We were on the radio, daytime radio, in New York, in L.A. We knew they could sell tickets.

People were going to see them. When De La Sole So played, everyone would go to see them. They were the coolest band. So to us, it was more like, oh, where's the single? We have a single now? How do we run with this? Let's run. And Monica came up with a lot of the imagery.

She just poured water. She put growth powder on what they already had. Like, she threw grow lights on the hippie image. You know, and they kind of, that was them naturally. They were just different. And she, instead of, you know, pondering it, she was like, oh, let's run with this. This is great.

And to her credit, she somehow knew that collegiate white America ate it up and they did. I mean, it went quick, man. It was not slow. Like, really, they were on, they were on from the minute the album came out. Well, yeah, I always say that that album literally cut a lot of the bullying

around my neighborhood. off. It became cool to be weird. Yeah, literally. Because even before, like before then, my only black hippie reference was like maybe Prince's sign of the times period. Right. Of which it was still shaky in the hood,

but once 89 rolled around and Kat saw me, especially after the potter was in my lawn video, they were just like, oh, oh, okay, you crazy like the daylight guys. And like, that was my past. Like suddenly I became cool. That was validated. Yeah, totally 100%. I mean, they were just dressing like a lot of kids

were dressing downtown. They were just from Long Island, but it wasn't rap dudes dressing like that. It was kids who were younger and more progressive. But the thing was because of the defensive nature of De La Sol is dead. Yeah. I am to, am I to believe that they did more fighting

and defending themselves? I mean, if you ever talk to Paz, you know. I mean, man, me and Mace got in trouble everywhere. Yeah. They got kicked off the nitro. How do you get kicked off the LL tour? I mean, they got in a fight. They were always, you know, they weren't having it.

Like Maces, you know, all of them. I mean, they're not soft kids. You know what I mean? I mean, you know, they're still young black men. Even if they have some hippie imagery, they're, like, still down to go for that. Were they getting in fights because people, because of their image? Yeah, because people tried to test them.

Okay. For sure. For sure. Wow. You know, biddy's in the BK. Lounge, I says it all. Yeah. You know?

I mean, granted, that's funny, because Poss hit me up today. I just those that's one of the greatest groups I ever worked with they're like just even now they're just such great rappers and that's the other thing they invented an entire new way of rapping right like they were unique and original they weren't they were sans cliches and tough guy bullshit so the whole time there wasn't any fear of

this might not make it or not really man because we we knew we had a captive audience it wasn't it you know we did two singles before you got to remember and both those singles singles hit, Plugtonian and Potto's hit. We knew we had something. Also, I guess Latifah, did you A&R her album completely? No, I didn't do the whole album.

I signed her because of Latin Quarter's 45 King came up to me and knew who I was and played me a beat tape. And I knew who he was because his promos were in Red Alert. And him and Fat 5 Freddy called me up like, I think it was at Monday on the phone and played me a bunch of Latifah records over the phone. And I don't know why Freddie didn't come to the meeting that week. But they came without Freddie, and he brought the whole flavor unit, and we played her records. All 900 of them.

No, it was like four or five of them. It was Apache. Apache. No, it's just Apache Lati, Marky Fresh, who's a slept-on, maybe member, and M-45 King. And we decided we're going to sign Latifah. I called Monica and I said, play that again, we played it again, and we ended up signing it. We signed it for peanuts too. Wow.

And I will tell you this, she's one of, unlike De La, Unlike De La, she exuded superstar energy from the minute I met her. She had a million-dollar smile and she was funny and engaging. She had it. Like, I was like, she got it. She could sing and rap, too. I didn't know she didn't write a rap's back then. So she knew instantly blammo, like, I'm a star.

Yeah, I don't know if she knew it, but we knew it. Did you sign anyone else to Tommy Boy before? Did you're on the ground, but then I left. I didn't stay to make the record. I found out of what she liked in a house. Because I didn't make any money. How do they come across your radar even? This dude named Atron Gregory, who had TNT records.

I knew him from Cats in the Bay. I have a lot of family in the Bay. And I met him when I was in the Bay. I can't remember what I was doing. And he was like, yo, I got this record, do what you like, and bang, bang. He later, Tupac too, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And he was working with Digital back then. And they gave me, they had Underwater Rhymes, was the record he gave me. And then he sent me do what you like. And then I was like, ooh, this one's popping, and we signed him. And I played do what you like in the competition at Tommy Boy for De La. And they were like, you better sign that. Wow.

Words, though. And then we signed them. And then, you know, I wasn't making any money. I started getting offers to get jobs elsewhere. I almost went to work at Capitol for my man Tim Carr, who stole the beasties from Russell and them like a thief in the night. My man, he tried to get me over there. And I didn't take the job. And I remember he had signed Mantronics.

And he played me Mantronix and new music. And I was like, I'm not feeling it. Was that the, the, uh, Brooklyn Queens? Was it that? It got the how you look. It was. Maybe. I think it was.

Yeah, yeah. It wasn't popping, though. I liked that one. I liked that one, too. I did that, that was the jam. That one was cool. I like Joyce Sims. Yeah.

I liked all that. I think that stuff was hot. But, but, so people were offering me jobs. I ended up taking a job at Electrica, so I like the guy. I mean, was Tommy Silverman upset or? Well, Tommy Silverman was mad cheap. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna just say it straight up. My lawyer was, um, my lawyer was, um, um,

Andy Taville at the time and we wanted to get me like 40,000 a year and he offered me like 30 I was making like 25 maybe it's 30 something and he offered me a company credit card too and my man was like Andy Tavill was like I got mad in the meeting

and he was like Dante relax and after the meeting he took me out he said that guy's small potatoes there's a whole world for you out here relax you have a big record we're gonna we're gonna I'm gonna shake some trees an article mentioned me in the New York Times and he started calling people

people started offering me jobs Russell tried to get me to work there again Capital offered me a job and I took a job literally I took a job at Elektra Records because I really liked the boss Bob Krasnow he told me he had signed Parliament Funkadelic back in day

and Richard Pryor and I had a three-finger ring on and he took my ring off he asked me if he could try the ring on and he gave me some big diamond pinky ring And I was like, yeah, we should trade rings. He's like, I don't think so, kid. And I just thought his whole style was, he was real cool. And he offered me real money.

And I decided that's where I wanted to go. So you're saying that a hip-hop A&R... There was no such thing as a hip-hop A-N-R yet. Okay, so what would a regular A&R, if you're working at Atlantic? 60 to 100, as a director, maybe 60, maybe 100. So the cat that like signs Led Zeppelin Or she? Back then?

They're making at least six figures? Yes. At least. 100%. And this is only because Tommy Boy was a small label and why did they make, like, when did the Warner deal go down? Like why did they? The Warner Brothers deal was already in place.

So even then? Yeah. And Monica, the crazy thing is Monica ain't want me to leave. And I didn't want to leave. And I told Andy that. He was like, they're never going to pay you. He's like, I was like, but I love my groups. He's like, they won't love you.

Don't worry about it. get a check. Straight up, he told me he kicked the reel to me, and he was right. And, and, um, I wanted to sign Grand Puba because I love Masters of Ceremony and I had the brand newbie and demo and Monica Lynch said, I just want to say to you, I don't think it's

ethical if you sign Grand Pubaa. And I was like, don't worry, I ain't going to sign grand Pubaa because I signed brand newbians. And that was, that was, you know. So was that your first signing at Elektra? His man, Fonte's man. He's sazy. Zazzy. Tell us the story, Jiggo.

And I almost got me fired, you know, because she flopped. And I was on the ropes. And then an article came out, Nelson George, my man, who he, Monica got so tight. She said, Dante didn't really sign De La Sol and he's taking credit. He's executive president. Nelson George wrote some little thing about me in his column. And Billboard, yeah. He started to do a takedown?

I don't think he did it on purpose. I don't know what it was. You know, Nelson's my man, whatever, blah, blah, blah, one on the bridge. And then this lady I worked. with she she put she photocopied and put it in front of a couple of people and they called me in the office and I thought they were going to fire me out a flop and that came out and um my boss was like I don't care about all that he's like go make a hit no one remembers no one remembers the flops that's what he told me and um brand newbian so we talked about day law brand newbion was

signed for $55,000 and they went over budget and I thought I was going to get fired and I told my boss I said I'm $12,000 over budget he said who cares metallic record cost a million dollars to make. Yeah, I was going to say, like, at what point, is it a good record? I said, I think it's great. Wow. So you're saying that hip-hop, even in its classic phase,

was so. Cheap. Baltic Avenue, Mediterranean Avenue. That major labels just saw it as a quickie cash. Who knew? I mean, you know what? I'll even blame myself a little bit on that, right? because I thought that's what you paid for a record.

I didn't say they need $200,000. I didn't know. I was coming from the Tommy Boy paradigm of making records. So I thought you made a rap record for $50,000. I thought that was good. You didn't know the scale was that big. I had no concept. Even being super cool with the Beasties

and seeing how rich they got, I still had no concept. I really didn't. I was young and naive. I did not know. So shout out to the Beasties were realizing that they- Overcharging nigs for what they did to the Cold Crush.

So brand new being Now My favorite record I've ever made I'm just going to say it right now Dude I'm gonna tell you Are you gonna ask? Because I think I know where you're going

But I don't know I got to ask by the five mics Or what? Well They got five mics right Hell yeah First five mics When I see it Even know they had tried to do me

They still got five mics But you know something though Don't say it was hot. I'm... It wasn't hot. It wasn't hot. I understood why. Because every record had that record at the time.

Well, it's weird you said it because... Okay, so the day... You remember when every seminal hip-hop release required, like, a mass listening amongst you and your boys. Like, you all sit in a room like this and you overly analyze it. We smoke weed when we do that, too. At least I did. So the day that we listen to ready to die,

There was one song I ain't like on it. What was the one? What was your one? Respect. Yeah, how you knew that? That was the album. But even that, to me, was like, even though it was the worst song, it was still pretty good. Before that record came out, the way I heard it was, I was driving to the Hamptons with Jessica Rosenblum, and she said, you want to hear the Biggie record?

I was like, hell yeah. And that was the only song I didn't like. Well, my manager at the time said, oh, I see what they did. and I was like, what? And he says, you know, like, and he used the brand newbie and I'll make an example. He says, you know how the Tried to Do Me song was supposed to be like that one small attempt

at getting an R&B hit on an otherwise hip hop record? He's like, yeah. He's like, you know that unbelievable is the try to do me. Nah, of this. Well, no, no, no, no. I mean, but no, but just in terms of where you had a hip-hop record with just the one token R&B attempt.

Well, no, no, but he's basically saying that they reversed the formula and made every song with single potential. Okay. But the one underground hip-hop record was unbelievable. The one token song wound up being the underground record, which was, you know, unbelievable. Which, you know, it's kind of reversed. But at the time, like, I didn't, I guess, I think I knew of Masters of Ceremony, I haven't seen. it in the record bins, but... That ceremony was fire.

All I know is that... Cracked out was fire. Really? Fire. Fire. I mean, they were fire. Puba was fire back then. But how were you sold on, like, what was it about the group?

You just wanted Puba and whatever private... Whatever you wanted to do. Also, I hung out with Puba. He was just so cool. I sang out him and Paz K back then. And they were just mad, cool. I just wanted to fuck with both of them. See, why weren't they a crew?

They should have been. But because of the first priorities, situation imposter. They should have been. Yeah, I felt like they should have been. And disclaimer on try to do me, that was 100% grand Puba is doing. 100%.

That was him. His man, Dave Hall, is from Mount Vernon. Yeah, untouchable is, that's his man. And he's dope. Dave Hall is also, he did, uh, love marriage. He was the Mariah Carey joint. Yeah. He was trying to eat.

Dave Jam Hall. He was trying to eat. He was trying to eat. Yeah, that was the thing, because then it was, well, the genius he had come do me. Like, that was the, That was a couple of years before that Did you have a hand in signing the genius?

No, no, Rizzo was on top of me, right? Yeah, Rizzo was on, yo, Rizzo, when I went, when I signed dirty, I, you probably heard the story how I signed dirty. No, I don't. It's in a stretch and Bobito movie. I, plug, plug, I heard, so I was loving Wu-Tang,

protecting Neck was, and Maddie C, my man who worked aloud, he told me that they weren't all signed, like almost going, like, grab one of them while you can, like, threw me the rock. So I heard him up on stretching Bob, and I jumped in the cab, and I went up there,

and I walked in, and Rizzo was there. And I was like, oh, shit. He was like, yo, I know you from the guy Mel Kwan. I was like, yeah, I remember you used to be on time, but it's like, yeah, you knew me when I was whack. Straight up. Straight up. I'll never forget it.

That's real. And I was talking those dudes for a while, and I was like, yo, I love dirty. I love meth, come see me. And I was Thursday. Supposed to see me Friday. They came Monday. and I remember they came to my office

and I told Rizal I want to sign Dirty and meth that's a new run DMC and he told me, yo that's an ill thought but now I'm gonna put meth in them over there with Russell but I'm gonna give you dirty because he fits in with the gods and I was like okay and he had a mapped out straight up

he had a master plan he had a mapped out he wanted to put him there straight up so many questions and I'll say this too Riza was like the coolest, smartest, most insightful. Like, that guy is like, back, I mean, from then to now, he's just like a gracious individual.

I always, I always just had great vibes with that guy. He is. Wait, since we're on the Try to Do Me. All right. So this is, the significance of Try to Do Me was that this was their attempt at the Army. Right. Didn't get on the radio. I can see that Urban Outfitter Love.

shirts right now with the floppy uh yeah i'll see if heavy d were on this it'd be you know right that's what it is it's a heavy d record yeah i'm saying that when i got this record yeah i'm saying that when i got this record i wasn't exactly fast-forward in it matter of fact I did there was two fast forward there was two fast forwards there was two

there was two okay it was this one and um dance from my ministry dance from my ministry yeah I love dance from my ministry that was a

militant didn't do do do do do that was a that was a that all no earth one in fire earth one of fire I didn't

I didn't fast forward dancing my ministry I used to run that one I like it all knew is that I read the, okay, so this is when I knew the source was the Bible, because when I saw the review, first of all, they got a five-mic review. And they had a song that wasn't on, they had on that tape,

they had a song that didn't make the album. Which one? Which one? It was a song with this girl Jeddah said, where is pooh-bah? And the drums for it became, what's the 4-1-1? Wow. No, not what's the 4-1. It was the Bismarck Drums, Lafayette Afrook.

And that's why Pup was fucking with Poo-Bah back then. Oh. Where is Poo-Bah? I need that song. John Shetcher has it. And when the record came out, he was like, and when the record came out, he's like, I have no idea why. Try to do me. There's several songs he did.

There's several songs he did that never made the record. Wow. Like, there was also the Pete Rock song on his solo album. What? Yeah, you don't know about that song. A Pete Rock song didn't make the. Puba Maxwell. Yes, sir, honey.

In 94. How you live in. It's on YouTube. And Funky penguin, I have no Let me just say this There is no explaining the grand pooh-bubo There's no rhyme or reason

So wait, he had the final sale Weren't you A&R on the records? I mean, I never got the master They made it in Pete's house on Pete's Pete used to have the A-track cassette in the house And they made it on that I had a cassette. It never made it to tape.

So you're saying that, okay, when we get to Pete Rock, you're saying that half that stuff was just made on an A-track? No, I mean, just that was. But Pete made all his demos like that. That's why they were so bright. So when he went to Chon King, I mean to Green Street,

that's why his records were so bright because he wanted to match what he's doing in the house on the cassette. Chase the demo. Chase the demo. What Bob Harris says, Chase the demo. Demoitis.

Wow. So, all right. So the first line of the source review was Brand Nubian is New York. And that just... Did Shecta write the review? I don't know if he did, but it just...

Because I haven't even heard of them. But the fact that in the previous source, their summer issue in which, I mean, they gave tribe, they reviewed a whole bunch of records. And America's Most Wanted got a five. It did? So they were, they reviewed, though, that record is great.

They reviewed, like, 30 albums. And the only five's awarded it was People's Instinctive Travels. America's Most Won it. Ice Cube, Tripocles. Wait, wait, let's go back. Let's go back. It's people's instinctual travels. a five mic record?

No. No. Midnight Marauders is, low end is. I think at the time it came out. It was just so different from what it came out.

It was. It was. It was. Not to me. Like, it's actually my least favorite tribunal. It's not my least favorite. It's my least favorite tribe of it.

What about Beach Rhymes in Life and the love movement? Let's get real. Beast Rimes. That was an album. I didn't know people hate it until I got on the internet. Right.

I was bumping Beas Rhymes of Life. Somebody had to. Oh, here you go, man. I bought Shats. So hey, I mean, listen. I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? Oh, you kill me.

And I made Shazzy. So, and no disrespect, those records are good records. They're just not like, they're just not as good as mined my marauders and low-end theory. You know, because their bar was so high, they're competing against themselves. But here's the thing, though, because even on OK player, they had one of these like, okay, 25 years later, how does this hold up? And when it came time for awful one, people were like, no, this is definitely not a five. my record. And I had to, my defense was that it was, all for one was beyond the music.

It was more the lifestyle. I would give it, honestly, I wouldn't give it a five mic. That's a four to a four and a half. There's two, two duds on it. Five mic record has no duds. See, he's coming from a technical standpoint. I guess the industry standard has sort of Stockholm syndrome me to now make, the product of the artist

more than just the album itself. A great record doesn't have to be a perfect record. America's most wanted is better than one for all. I can rap with you on that. So is the first Cyprus album to me. You know what? I'll give you that one too. Wait, are we about to have...

No, no, we ain't going to be on there. We've yet to have the... Because Midnight Marauders better than one for all, too. So is a low-end theory. But it's a matter of significant importance. It's all subjective. It's all subjective. The thing is that...

You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. That's how it is. I don't think there's a particular song or whatever, but it's just the meaning of all for one. I mean, in one fell swoop. I mean, even... All right, take it this way.

Even a record like New York, New York by the dog pal. Right. And in the first 20 seconds of them mocking what they think New York is, their first references, yo, what's up, God? True and deep, God. You, peace God. Making fun a 5% rappers. I think

Brand Nubian's image and and Aura was more important than all for one. I get it. No, you're right.

It's a capsule. It's a, you're like, it's a capsule picture of New York at that time here, the gods and earths. Well, wait, I got to ask you, how did...

As a white guy? Yeah, I was my question. I have Jewish white guy. Yeah, I'm about to say, oh, that's the question. That's the question. I'm like, how did you? Because I remember, because, I mean, I think what you're saying is true for me, because I came up in the South, so I'm in North Carolina.

So for me, all for one was the first album that I remember really hearing and seeing, you know, the guys in Earth and the 5% terminology and like, okay, well, what is that? And I remember the wake-up video where they had, like, the white man as the devil and shit. Like, Fat Five Freddy did that video. Oh, okay. And it got banned from MTV. It did. It did got banned.

Just think about that. Think about that. His own show. His own show band, this video. But that was, yeah, it was just learning the terminology and all that. I mean, that was my first introduction. You know what's crazy is that I did, so the remix version wake-up's the original version. And they did that other version second.

And that version was actually better. Yeah, the Royer's joint. That one was way better. Oh, you were the, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. The nightlighters. Yeah. Yeah. So my version is really the original.

version, but they wanted to run with that one, and there was no arguing with the gods. And the one thing I'll say about their version of that song, it did not knock in a club. Didn't hit. It was thin. All right. They're mixes. Oh, wow. Man, day-law mixes on the first album, too, man.

How do you, I mean, but again, it's like, do you mess with their progress? Not really. Because they were just looped shit and put 808 under it. That's it. And it wasn't until Pete, rock, which I had actual definition of, let me be my snare. Try.

No, but even then, like, Jungle Brothers and Tribe would just... I don't know, man. J.B.'s coming through. It was knocking. That was, but, I mean, a song like... Straight out the Jungle was... But a song like feeling all right... It was done in your house. Yeah, but I'm saying the song like Feeling All Right was just...

Yeah, but then when it got to, like, the second... I mean, date raping and all those records on Lointhery, those things are knocking. Well, because Bob was there. True. You know, I mean, And after Pete Rock shut them down, everything changed. But even listening to Public Enemy, like I listened to him recently, there's no bottom. It's all mid-range.

Yeah. All mids. No definition. Zero definition in their mixes. That's what I'm saying. Like, your era of, of hip-hop was redefined. I guess we, now we got to have a Pete Rock section. All right.

Let's play some. Let's say one thing about Brand Newbian. So Brand Newbian was a snapshot of New York. at that time period, much like Cyprusil was a snapshot of L.A. at that time period. There's certain records that capture a certain place, too short, born to Mac. They captured that place, that, that vibe of that city at that time period. And that's why those records are all important. Very different records, but all kind of have the same cultural importance to me. All right. So wait, let's peep one of my all-time favorites from an awful one,

step to the rear. I got into with a sample. Which one? The end Sesame Street record No Yes It's Bert and Ernie singing No Yep

Full circle Ah Here we go Okay everybody Let's step up to this Sing my song Step up to this Sing my song

Step up to this Sing my song Step to the rear Grand Poo is on arrival Raised in the ghetto Singing songs Cause survival Running around town

Giving all the girls Poober snacks I wouldn't try to steal a style You just make up some cardio Figured the way to get paid is to grab the microhirtional Smooth is Jermaine so honey don't take it personal There's no need I'm trying to dis the swinger Baby all your cuts is two snaps up in the finger

The barbeloo bad boy a threat to the paranoia Try to step to this it's void A new hit from the grand man work nice like the sand man Game for a work in case I gotta stomp a head out Plus it is a trick that's not up my sleeve It's possessed with finesse and it works when I breathe Paid in the shade with the A As the grade with the papes that I made from this trade

So get him to the grip, you know where to slide the chips If you want to cash in on the winds Grand Puba and I love to hit skins And you know what I've got a song to sing Oh, baby I've got a song to sing Oh, baby

Follow me now Dog, I used to make Pause tapes to Okay, a pause tape was Before looping culture With Serrado and other devices today when you wanted to hear your favorite part you would just take a cassette tape

and do the edits yourself by hand so I would just make of just this section of the song trying to figure out I cannot leave this earth without owning the source of the record of the sample. I have the record,

I know what the cover looks like but I don't know what the name of the song is it's a long time ago and it's definitely a Sesame Street record that KMD was fucking with too. I'm sure we can find it. Well, yeah, I was about to say

our next episode, Questlove Supreme will be at unpaid bills job. Let me come. I need to get some of those grades. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for.

raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected.

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Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at America Copa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never.

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Pete Rock. Ah, love him. Just. Easiest got to work with of all time. Really?

Oh, man. He was so, man, it was like, making that record was so easy. I'd just go to studio like every

couple of days and they'd be finishing another record. You're talking about the first one. Megan and Soul. So even when he did the

which he didn't necessarily, I wasn't really around a whole lot with that one. But, you know, because we had the creator, we had a hit song, right? So we knew we had a hit. So we're making the album. And I would just cruise by Green Street and we'd smoke a little weed. And then we'd order some food. And he also had like 25 songs, 30 songs. Like a bunch of records didn't go on the album.

And he would just play me shit. And I'd be like, yo, what is that? And he'd be like, oh, you know, that's the Heza brothers. Take an inventory. or whatever. He'd tell me what the record was. So I catch knowledge. He filtered the baseline. Oh, yeah, I used these drums. Like, it was not only was it a pleasure to hear the records. It was like I was going to beat school. He was, he knew a lot. He played it in his car. Was that? He would play these beats in this car. Yeah, yeah. Play in the car. And then,

and Jamie Stow was an engineer. And I ended up feeling Jamie to do Everlast later, because I thought his mixes sounded so good. And Green Street was just a really nice, environment. And Pete never beefed about anything ever. He never beefed once, never had a complaint. It was like he was really, he was really young then. It was a long time ago.

We're talking about the same beat. I know. Because wait. He was quiet back then. As a record digger, there is no fear like the look on a record merchant's face when he might have to face the wrath of Pete Rock.

Right. If Pete finds out that someone else has purchased a record that Pete was intending on using. Another thing about Pete is when you shop with him, he didn't really show you a lot of shit. We're like, I would shop with the beat nuts and be like, you know this, even Dilla. I won't shop with him one time he showed me some shit.

But like Pete would never say anything. I'd be like, oh, you know this and he'd do the beat. He knew about it. It wouldn't tell you anything. Dog. It would be to the point where, like... He put me up on the T. Swift. He put me up on a few joints.

Eddie Seney, a couple of joints. Oh, okay, okay. For a second, when he said T. Swift, I was like, wait a minute, huh? Wasn't she, like, three years old back then? No, I'm playing. I'm playing. Taylor. That took a cool second.

No, no. I'm just saying... You know the record. Are you... Did Jimi Hendrix? Yeah. Are you experienced joint, the drums? But I'm saying that he...

Yeah, I would go to places and I'd be like, all right, we're the good record Titan. And they'd just be like, you know, I said what, Pete? It's like, yeah, you know, you know. And then it'd be a time where like maybe a month or two go by and be like, did Pete pick up the records yet? And he'd be like, well, and then that's how I would be like, here, I need these records. You, Mir, I went to his house one time in Spring Valley,

and he let me look at his record collection. And every record I had, he had, he had, doubles of damn near, and he had everything to the point where I wanted to give up. I was like, God, damn it. He had everything. He would notoriously actually buy triples and quadruples of records, so that no one else could get the records. He gave me some records, too.

I traded doubles with them a couple of times. He, uh, you know, I also, you know, I helped him out a lot, so, you know, but he was a pleasure to deal with, man. And I always hear people like, you know, he may get a difficult tag now and again, but, but, uh, He was really cool back then, and he didn't smoke a lot, and I was a mad potter, and I started getting him high a lot. He was like, he got that. We started smoking.

You told him at Spring Valley, New York, Brooklyn County. Yeah, that's where he lived. That's where he had his first house. And I don't know if you guys noticed that Puba wrote the creator. He wrote it for beats. He didn't get paid. And he also wrote, he wrote, what's the other one? Pete's rocking on it?

Oh, soul brother number one. Can we play that real quick? Yeah, that song's great. Boss Bill looking at me like, you better play that song. He's a sweet soap. So, brother, number one, here I come on to Newton. Nestle-coded right cause I'm rich, thick and chocolate.

Plug up any mic, I bet you beat rock a sprocket. Huns always acts what's the bulge in my pocket? I tell him peeps. I rock from top to bottom. Never hesitate to say. I rest on the hillside over on the chill side. Uptown, so let's get down. Forky is the word described his brother on his soul mission.

Look at rugged joints, more soul than the soul kick. and see her does is scrap so I won't leave your itching. White people even say beat rock and bitching. Harder than the hottest. Aughter than the artist. I guess that's just because I'm smarter than the smartest. So back up, clear the path, honey, because here I come. Soul brother, number one.

All right, so I just realized that the number one soul brother sample. Sweet sweet bag. No, it's Merv Griffin. Introducing James Brown. It is? Okay, so there's a copy. There's a song called World that James Brown did. And it's Merv Griffin introducing, and now, these and gentlemen, it's the number one soul brother, James Brown.

And then it goes, so like James has a perfectly edited introduction of Merv Griffin from the Merv Griffin show before the World Song starts. Crazy. There's a lot of samples in it. There's bubble gum in that, long red. more importantly pain yeah that that's my favorite song on that record because you got the ninth creation in there on the bottom

yeah do do do do do so by this point how do you clear these samples like if it's super obvious or do you or is it favorite a dice rolling

do people come to you do people come to you and you're like hey I was holding your money in escrow like no no no no I would sit there with Pete and I'd be like yo I know you's this this and this, he might divulge another one he might not. Some might not catch, and we didn't catch everything. We definitely didn't clear everything on

those records. Like without a doubt. And what about the interludes? Just... Oh, man, we didn't clear or any of those. Those were the chase. I'm sure there's been, you know, everyone knows everything now, so I'm sure he's had suit after suit. I'll tell you what's crazy. Step to the rear. Electra records clear

Tramp by Lowell Folsom. It's not Tramp. And they did that retroactively. And I already had a publishing deal, and they were like, hey, there's a claim against one of your songs. I was like, that's not what that sample is because it's, you know, it's the marquees. Even on beats rhymes in life, they gave a good chunk of the portion of a pad and pin to the Gat band. Really?

For what? For just a little piece. A minuscule, period, from yearning for you. Yeah, just a little snippet. But you don't eat it, beat it? And I'm like, yeah, this is like three. And I'm like, why did you even clear it? Like, that dude who owns their publish, you know, he goes after everybody.

He's trying to catch dudes. Have you, I don't even want to bring this into existence. Have you, have you had an Aaron Fuchs situation? No, no, I got caught for Camille Yarborough on the Everlast record. She caught me. She called me. I had to pair some dough. She did the fat boys.

Yeah, the praise example. Yeah, and I just used the interlude just a little. No, it wasn't, sorry, not Camilla Yarbrough, my bad. Von Gray, the Grey Lady album. I used a little intro, it's a whole new thing. Like, I used just a little vocal, and I didn't clear it. We settled with it. It was cool.

It was no big deal. And I did roll the dice on. I'm not going to down myself on a bunch of, on several records that are big records that I didn't clear things on, I never got caught. Knock on wood. Good. Wow. There's someone who's going to hear this and go through my entire catalog.

It's probably already up on who sampled already, so it's not. Kind of it. Oh, really? No. And on rock records, people don't look as much. So, because I did all these remixes for porn and shit. Right, right. I used mad shit that people didn't catch.

What'd you say? John Spencer Blues Explosion? I mean, I didn't clear any of that. And, you know, there's something real prominent in that one. So go sue John. I miss touring. I have no publishing. I miss touring with those guys.

Like, they, we went on the Beastie Boys Tour with John Spencer Blues Explosion. They're in orange, right? Yes. That's what we were banging. They were a great band. Old Russell Simmons, on drums. Man, that guy, he hits hard. Yeah, he would go through like a drumhead a night.

I mean, I recorded him, and his time wasn't tremendous. Chuck Trees had better time. They both played on a record for me. And Chuck's stuff I didn't have to play with. I had to play with Russell's stuff a bunch. Wow, you know about the legend of Chuck Trees. That's my man. Nice to skateboard with him.

Nick Rad. Yeah, Chuck Torese is forever 19-year-olds. Yeah. That's my man with the green eyes. Yeah, that's the man. So how long was your tenure at Elektra? I think it was almost eight years. Seven years, I think it was a long time.

Close to eight years. Who am I missing besides? K&D. Old Dirty bastard. Shoo. I gave Buster a solo record. I wasn't there by the time he finished it. But after leaders flopped, and even while when they turn leaders in...

The first album or the second album? The second album was a hit. I was not to say. The second album was very disjointed. I'd send them back in to do it again. They didn't want to do it. When I wanted to go do the second album, I actually pulled Tip in.

I said, yo, you should be the executive producer and just oversee it because there's too many moving parts. It's chaos. And Tip was down, and I pitched the idea to those guys. And Buster wanted to do it, and the rest of them didn't. And that's when I knew that Buster was... Why would they go against their own interests? Because they said,

Yo, Tribe stole the East Coast Stomp from us. and it wasn't Buster who said that. I'm just going to stop. Of course, of course. You know, someone who is associated with the peanuts. Who's the hardest group to babysit? Leaders of New School. Because they might get a fistfight in the middle of everything.

It was always, always rough with them. Brand new beings were like, they might beat me up, but not each other. I was about to say, each group has a fist fight in the A&R office story. Even Tarika and I had a fist fight in the ANR office story. Grand Nubian never had, I never had drama with them like that. Me and Jamar jawed at each other one time, and that was that. And Jamar was definitely down the hookoff on me too. And it didn't happen.

And I love Lord Jamar, like much respect to him. He's about his business. I love that guy. Right. And leaders, yeah, I got into with Charlie Brown one time in office, and just it was all fucked up. And I knew Buster was a star. Everyone knew it.

So me and Chris Light. I told him, I said, oh, we, Buster got to do solo record. He's like, you're right. And we've worked on Buster for a minute, and Buster finally saw the light, and he did a solo record. So do most acts just break up,

or do you have to say, okay, we're... No, they all broke up. Every act broke up. It was never me. I never had anything to do with breaking up. Any act, specifically, I did offer a solo record to Buster while there was still a band.

That is true. But it was me and Chris Lidey. And, you know, big shout out to, Chris Liding, my brother. I love him. I miss him. He was one of the greatest people I ever know from his business, him in D. Nice sitting a place of very few other people sitting.

But that said, and Buster finally opened his eyes. He's seen him wasn't going to happen, and it was time for him to do what he had to do. And he did it. And at that point in my life, me and Buster were super close. He was going through a lot of personal shit. And that's my little brother. I love him. He's a great man.

Were you there for the whole black bastard scenario with KMD? I was that was really what disillusioned me About working at a major label And I'd probably be cynical No, I've been cynical No, I stayed because It's hard to walk away from that much money Especially, you know, my mom's a school teacher

My dad's a writer like I grew up You know, very blue collar So I can't say that I'm super Mr. Principal Then I walked away because this is that and the other I didn't But I was I fought tooth and nail And I lost

To explain the backstory So black bastards So, you know, you got to explain KMD. Right. So KMD was Doom and his brother Sub Rock and Onyx, who was like, he was like the third guy, but he wasn't really in the process. And I met them from third base. They were on Gas Face. He helped produce GasFace, Doom.

He was my little homie, my man, and we went and made the first record. We made it in my studio, basically. Who did Peach Fuss? He did Peech was. Him or Sub Rock? I mean, it's hard to do what? I thought Puba did it because Poober was playing. No.

No way. You don't remember the video when Puba was playing the vibra boh? Yeah. We all thought, oh, my God, Puba knows I play percussion. Puba did, he might help with nitty-gritty, though. Okay. But those guys, you know, those two were symbiotic in their relationship, rest of peace of subrock, and they were just, like, family to me.

And we made the first record in it. It wasn't a big hit, but it had some lasting impact. And their imagery was always based around the Sambo character about eradicating the stereotype of Sambo. They were Muslims. They were part of the Ansarala community. Brooklyn followed Dr. York, blah, blah, blah. And so that said, you know, between the first and second record,

they had changed a lot as people. They'd grown a lot. They experimented a lot of mind-altering drugs. You know, they're not ashamed to say it. I think acid became a, you know, a part of the program, blah, blah, blah. They were hanging out uptown with Curis George and Emelot. And Subrock died. He got hit by a car.

and he passed. We buried him, and in the wake of that, Doom went and finished the record, he turned him, it was called Black Basser to us, the hangman game. And they had Sambo, and they were hanging him. Mm-hmm. And Havlock Nelson,

Terry Rossi, I'm going to call him out. I don't care. My Facebook friend, Halflock Nelson. My too, and I talked him about it. Was part of this? And anything I'm going to say right now, I'll say, I said to him, and he's apologized. they condemned the artwork and the band

and the label putting it out without ever giving an audience to doom to defend his rhetoric, his vision, and they never let him talk about what his messaging was. And I think that was... So what do they see when they saw that cover?

They said it was racist, that no, a major label can't put out a record with Sambo on the cover that's called Black Bastards. Without even knowing who was behind it? And not right. And not also. noting that, Sambo's getting hung, right? So they're hanging in effigy, the stereotype of Sambo.

And they always use Sambo with the line through it. Yet they did not give him a chance to defend his vision and his messaging. And they condemned him. And Terry Rossi wrote about it in her column and so to Havelock. And it circulated around my building where I worked. And it was post the body count fiasco. Oh, wow. Was that in Billboard?

Yes. Because I remember that. Like I had religiously read Billboard every week. I remember that being on page three. So the rhythm and blues column, I think it was called. So they circulated my boss called me office, and he said there's a lot of contentious feelings about this artwork. And we're going to put this before the review board at, you know, at Warners. And we're going to see, you know, what people said.

And he said that Vincent Davis, who had Keith Sweat found this offensive, and Sylvia Rome finds this offensive. and it's been deemed offensive by several black people. All the bourgeois blacks. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. We said it for you, brother. All the bourgeois blacks.

Certain things, I can't say. The edjimicated blacks. All the Jack and Gia black folks. So, you know, um, so they wouldn't let the record come. They shelved the record. But my man came to the office.

Today we were going to meet the Warner music group. What's the guy? Richard Parsons was. supposed to be there and various other people. Dick Parsons. And we were going to meet all these people and my boss said they've canceled the meeting. We're not going to have the meeting. I'm not

going to put the record out. Bob Krasnow. And he said, but I am going to give you back your masters. And I know you've been through a lot of stuff with your brother. And I'm going to also give you basically a like get out of jail free check. So he gave him a, I think it was $20,000 check.

And we went to my office and I had all this wine. Someone sent me a case of wine. sweet premium wine, right? They have that song, Sweet Premium Wine. Right. So we always used to drink the wine in my office, and we drank a couple bottles, and Doom said, you know, I should get dropped more often.

I haven't got a $20,000 check in my entire life. That's real. The fallout is that no one would touch the record. Faith Newman, I know wanted to sign them, and she wasn't allowed to. And the record sat there, and Doom went in, and he put on, you know, he put on the mask, and he reinvented himself as MF Doom,

and power to him, man. That's the power of black man in America right there, reinvention, right? Which is crazy because... So he invented underground hip-hop, more or less on the heels of catching the biggest hell of his life, his brother dying and getting dropped. But you know what?

He empowered himself. And I love that man, that's my brother forever. And, you know, he was... We had a lot of stuff, man. I'll never forget burying his brother wore. Or, you know, every time I see him, I'm one of the only people who talks him on Skype and I have to tell him to take the mask off.

But I love him. that cat and he's a he's a wonderful person and and you know that's that's the rap game right there it is you know you got to deal with some bullshit because i was the single what was the single that sampled the jodi wightly loop what a nigg you know what a nigga no she was hot that was my shit i knew this it was gonna hit and no the leds jacked him right you're right they jacked the loop you're right shod you're right jacked it he knew what it was around i love you shod you don't play that you know what's your boy rashire Rasat and he jacked it. You know what it is.

You've been knowing the jacked loops. Henry T-wave. A couple of other cats. Yo, Brasad and Steve. It was Rashad, Rashide, Smooth? Versailles, Tumbling Dice. I cannot wait to get Tumbling Dice on Questlems Supreme. I love him.

I love him. He changed his phone number. Rossad. Probably because you stole someone's loop. It gets turned off. Am I allowed to call, Rashad, Smith. Ringo. I'm telling you, he's going to have a new number.

since you called him last. Wow, I actually have Rashad Smith number seven. I have like seven phone numbers on him. I got a bunch myself. He's a talented cat, though, man. He did doing it, people don't know that. Yep.

He's a cat who did more records that people don't know he did than anyone ever. Oh, yeah. He did one more chance. Yeah. He did know the ledge. He did relax with Pep.

Paul C. might have done more records than people ain't know. Hello, man. Please meet to Rashad. Oh, man. exactly you got the wrong number sorry

sorry thank you thank you thank you sorry stop stealing loops uh how stupid is how stupid is the idea of stealing a loop because we were stealing them from the guys who made the records

yeah so it's like you know whatever that's crazy uh all right so you're saying so the last record that you

a and R at Electra was black bastards nope what was it was Dirty, right? It was dirty. It was first. Yep. Dirty and the second Pete Rock.

Chronologically, I can't remember. Main ingredient. Okay. But no, Dirty came out in 95, so. So maybe it's that one. Dude, how do you even, how do you even? How do you even? That was Shad Smith?

It might have been. How do you even communicate with old dirty bastard? Man. How? So who put that record together? So they came to me with seven, maybe eight, anywhere from six to eight songs done. The rest of the music was basically on reels on two inches.

A lot of the vocals were already done, not all of them. And Rizzo was like, peace. And Rizza, he wasn't going babysit dirty. He had money to go get, and he went and got his money. And he left dirty in my lap. I had to figure out with an engineer, how to mix those records. And if you've ever had a multi from Rizza,

his science is not my science. His periodic table is very Staten Island. And I'm from Manhattan. I had trouble understanding it. And he would literally take the bass tone from the two-inch reel, from the two-inch machine, and play bass lines out of that.

And I didn't know what the hell he was doing. And I did struggle, but I got the mixes done eventually. and he okayed them all. It took a year to get the record made. But in that year, the Wu-Tang clan, because I signed him before his album came out,

had grown in leaps and bounds. So I knew I had to get to the finish line. And I had a very patient woman. I lived with that at the time, and I spent an inordinate amount of time and trying to finish that record. But I also knew that because the way Dirty lived his life.

How many 5 a.m. phone calls you get? Man. From studios. Man. Tell me more, man. There's so much shit he did, man. But, but, man, I walked in the studio one time. This is the best.

And my partner, John Gamble, one of SD-50s, who didn't engineer a lot of sessions, was engineering the session. And I called earlier, I said, yo, is dirty there? Yeah, dirty's here. I'm going to swing by in a while, and I swing over there a couple hours later,

chunk in. And I walked in and no one's there. And I said, and my man had, a weird look on his face. I said, where's dirty? He's like, he's here. I was like, where? He's like, he's the vocal booth. I said, why'd the lights out? He said, go in there and see. Oh, Lord. I walked in there, and they're running a train on this chick.

Dead ass. Dead ass. And I, and I walked in and dirty wasn't, dirty, I guess, had already had already had his ride. And he was like, yo, Dee, you want to get down? I said, no, man, I don't ride caboose. And those guys said that to me for like, six months straight.

Yo, you ride caboose yet? That was like their favorite thing to say to me. And that was like one of the thousands of, I mean, you know, he fucking took the L.L. Plack off the wall and pissed on it. I'm not, I mean, I'm saving that from my book. But needless to say, I was in between him and Chris Lydie about the, it was a Mexican standoff. And it was, it was, yo, and dirty just like, you know, I took him to L.A. And he did this show.

And he, I mean, he tore it down. Literally. Right off stage. and started to do another show in front on like a street lamp. And like just stood there in front of the palladium on Highland and started rocking again. And I had to drag him to the hotel. It was like he was so wild.

And his diet was the, he would eat a box of donuts every day for breakfast. Oh my God. Chocolate donuts and then drink Cisco. He was hungry. And he would fart and laugh. And I mean, he just. everything he did was larger than life.

He got kicked out of so many hotels, and I will say this, though, I knew I had to get it to the finish line because there are times in life when you only know you have that moment in time, and you've got to get there, right? And I had to get there because I strongly suspected never going to happen again.

You knew. Let me get it while I can. And I dedicated a large part of that year to getting that record made, and we got it made. And true master, and dirty, got in a fist fight

at the mastering session and if you look at the record it says Master by Tom the referee coin got up and he broke up the fight and he ended the mastering session

told me to come back the next day without it all the class And unpaid Bill has to So we were mastering the Hamilton record and he told us this exact story Tom coin is a G Tom coin is

He's a G He's a G I love that man He had on his boat shoes ready to go golf thing. Yeah, always. He's the least hip-hop dude who mastered the most hip-hop records.

Oh, hell, he should be on the show, too. Tom Coyne's story of... Tom Coyne told me a story of how, when he mastered, only built for Cuban links, they stopped at Mint Master and said, yo, we got to put some killer interludes on here from the movie The Killer. But none of them had, you know,

technology wasn't out back then to go on the Internet. So they're just like, wait, I'll be right back. I'm going to run to the Allen and get my kilot tape. And Tom Coyne's like, well, he's like, they left for four hours, came back, got the kill of tape, but there's no television to watch it. So they just had a BCR with no TV. They hook it up, and they start acting out the entire movie. They literally act out the entire movie.

Tom Coyne recorded it. He's like, all right, what part do we use? He's like, oh, wait, start again from the top. Oh my God. Wow. So then he's like, all right, I'm going to take notes. And after a while they drifted off, stopped taking notes. And it was like, yo, it was the illest scene god.

And then they got to the end. And Tom Coyne's like, okay, you guys have your notes? He's like, ah, man, damn. Play it one more time. He had to play the killer three times in a row. P. Rock showed up, did the interludes on the main ingredient with his $1,200 and did him in the studio. Really?

Out of it right to mastering, right there. Lay it right there, that incredible Hulk joint. Yeah. He did that right there. I see, y'all got to add this. Tom Coyne gave him that it looked like you again.

Tom Coyne, man, he's a master of patience. I've seen... He's so many of my records and he was always my dude. I've seen old dirty pro tools and it's a mystery on how

that... Just to hear it in its naked form, especially with his vocals, there's at least eight or nine tracks. You can hear the punches. I mean, on the record, like, you can hear them, like, totally. I mean, all the Wu-Tains stuff like that.

Like, there's a Brooklyn Zoo where it's the, and I'm trying to figure out, how did you cut, how did y'all cut in paste this record together? So, shimmy, shimmy, I tried to get him to do a second verse for months. He would not do it. He did it backwards.

He did it backwards, and I walked in the studio, and I said, yo, I did shimmy-shimmy, and I was like, you motherfucker. And then he was like, yo, Q-Tib did it. I was like, oh, my God. He's like, yeah, I was like, that's not oh, my God. He was like, whatever, my shit's going to knock.

He was right. He was right, yeah, he's right as fuck. Let me tell you something. Those records, like, they still hold up, and there's a real, oh, also, Brooklyn Zoo, so drums, I couldn't get the drum sounding right, and I chopped up the brethren, and I put the kick and snare in there,

and Rizzen never knew. He never knew. Oh, you went and beefed it up? Yeah, I just put the kick and snare in there, because I couldn't get the drums of sound right. So if you listen, Listen to it close. You clearly hear the brethren snare in there. Oh, boy.

The brethren, which, you know, it's been in hundreds of records I made. So why did you, after that record, then why did you leave Elektra? Sylvia Rowan was my boss, and I don't think she necessarily liked me. I can't say that she was a fan of Dante Ross. And you know what? I can't blame her. She wasn't a fan of me either. I was, you know, I worked at Elektra Bozville?

I worked at Motown. I was on. I was wild style, you know, you couldn't tell me a lot. And, you know, I was living a crazy life. And she didn't care about your reputation or your legacy? No, she didn't care about that. She probably wanted, like, she might have wanted just get me out to own my legacy. Because I signed Missy, too, and Buster will tell you that.

So I did a deal with Devante's swing, and she hated that deal. So she dropped Missy when she was in Sister and signed her again. But I had signed her the first time. And she was like, this deal is. bullshit, you know, what do you know about R&B? And she would really, like, talk. She was very belittling to me in meetings and... Wait a minute.

How does... How does she negate your deal for the label, but then restructions a deal for the label? Like... I mean, she did. But wouldn't... She dropping Missy to the table. So she got... She didn't sign Missy right away.

It took a year later, too. Right, okay. But that said, and Missy was like, yo, you know, I know you're the person who really signed me. She always telling me that. And it was just like an embuster, we'll tell you that, too. It was just a bugged out period. And so we were making a second Dell record. And she wanted him to work with Tremaine DePri.

Wow, on the second. And it was just, obviously, no need for a long. Oh, man, it was bad vibes. Obviously, this is the Puff period. It was bad vibes. And she wasn't feeling me. And, you know, I tried to hold my tongue, but I'm not good at that. And she's-

And Chris Lydie, so Chris Lydie was like, yo, she's not feeling you one day. We went to dinner and I was like, you're right. He's like, come work over at Def Jam. So I got a deal over at Def Jam for an astronomical amount of money. And Def Jam went G-Funk and they didn't give a fuck about me. I signed Trigger the Gambler and that was it. Wow.

That was the only thing I ever signed. I helped on a nutty professor. I was miserable. But paid. Paid. And I linked up with Everlast. And we may be. Whitey Ford sings a blues on Def Jam's Donne.

Def Jam was paying me and I never went to work and I went to California. I moved L.A. and made the record with Everlast and sold a lot of records. That was one of the most surprising comebacks. Leo wouldn't talk to me for like a year over there. She's like, I hate you. He gave Tom Silverman the biggest record. I gave you $850,000. He gave me nothing.

Wow. And I was like, you were from Warren G. G. Land, man. You were fucking the South Central Cartel. Yeah, he did. And I'll tell you, I was so disgust. with rap music at that point in my life. Like, I was so disgusted by where it was

that I was listening to Radiohead and Massive Attack and DJ Shadow and, you know, whatever, Oasis and all kinds of rock music. I grew up, you know, like, I was a teenage punk rocker, so I had an affinity for that stuff. I played drums a little bit. And I just, like, you know, our minds were in different places. I was in the Soundgarden.

I wasn't really, like, I wasn't juiced on where hip-hop was. I didn't like Foxy Brown straight up. And the puff stuff, I liked it when I was in the club, but I didn't care for it. Listen to it in your house. You know, it wasn't go home. It wasn't lifestyle. It wasn't to live with it.

It didn't speak the culture to me at that time. It spoke another culture. And hats off the puff, respect. And I like those records a lot more in retrospect now. But when they were out, I liked them in the club when I'm trying to dance with the chick, but I didn't want to live those records. So, you know, I wanted something else.

Wow. I followed my heart. Did you have anything to do with the, Everlast solo record that came out in 95 before the Whitey Ford? No, but I knew him. I met him with De La. But they didn't come out in 95. That was the one. That was the

knack. I got the knack. I got the knack and syndicate told you. No, no, no. I'm talking about there was it was Guru Everlast and they rhymed over the bitch's brew. The, um, the Gangstar joint. Oh, fed up. Fed up, yeah, but the

remix is, play the remix. The remix is the joint. with the Jean-Joc Parra. Wow, to see Guru dancing in these videos. What is that? So that video right there, do you know what Peter Green is, the actor? He, okay, see you pull fiction, right? Yes.

Remember Zed? Wow, there's that. Zed kills me in that video. Wow. So, needless to say, I was in L.A. with Sadat. before I worked with Everlast I managed Sadat I can't manage a fucking

shoelace but but I managed Sadat and I got him signed aloud we did the Wild Cowboys we're in L.A. on tour or something and a guru came and he hung out with us got drunk he was in a hotel

to Mondrian and and he was like yo you know my man Everlast I said yeah I know him a little bit he's cool and he's like he's going to come meet me me and then he was like you all two motherfuckers are like the same dude you need to hang out and I was like word and what I didn't tell him was that Mugs

and Eric knew this they never wanted us to hang out together because we were both real wild back then and the chances of someone getting arrested were pretty high so me and him know we linked up and then Sadat did the record with him for that album Was that the heart full of sorrow?

Yeah, I love that record. That was a hot record. I went out there with him when he did it and we just linked and we went to the Super Bowl that guy, yeah, and it was like I met my twin brother I was like, oh, he's just like me and then we stayed tight and we ended up doing that record.

So I have a question. How did the, I guess, the genre switch happened for Everlast? So like I said, we were really discussed with the state of rap music, right? So, you know, we liked aggressive rap music, right? And aggressive rap music wasn't really winning right then. You know, like, so he's a soul assassin, and that's the kind of music he liked. And we were listening to a lot of all kinds of shit. Like Neil, you know, I love Neil Young.

Like I said earlier, my mom was into a singer-songwriter stuff, and Bob Dylan, Van Morrison. So I grew up with that around me, kind of. And so did he, because he's around my age, a little younger. And I had, we're in the studio, we're working on a rap record, and we did the song Dollar Bill, the one with him and X, and we did the, we did another version of Enzo, as a rap version.

And then we did, I think we did the song, a letter. And we were making a rap record. And I had a guitar, I had a guitar, and I played guitar a guitar a little a little bit. I can play a couple of ACDC songs. And I had an acoustic, like a hummingbird in my studio, and he picked it up. And he was like, yo, can I take this back to the pad?

He was staying with me. I said, yeah, whatever. So he went to my house, and he, you know, this is the best. He always tells this story. I can't tell it as good as him. So back then, I was like, I was just, I was smashing everything in sight. Dead ass.

I was on one. So, you know, I was a young man. And so I had this chick in my house in my room, and I literally heard him playing what it's like, and I ran out my boxer shorts. And I was like, yo, you need to record that shit. No, no, I finished. I finished my business.

It's crazy, too, because I never messed with white girls back then. I always remember. She's like, I remember it because when Homegirl came over, he said, he said, yo, Dee, what do you? He was like, yo, Dee, what's up with that? I was like, sometimes you got to fuck with the home team. I always remember that because I

you know if you know me I mess with I mess with the Spanish mom he's and the Asian girls so so so um so man I heard them play the record and I was like we gotta record

he's like I don't know and the next day I was on him again you gotta play that and that was him actually playing the guitar on that record he was playing that song and singing it and and I said play me the song again next morning

because it stuck in my head and he was like he played again I said we got to record he said I'm not ready to do that once I do that, I can't ever do what I do now. I said, no, you can do everything. He said, I don't want to do it. I said, yo, you should do it.

He didn't want to do it. So I told him for two days straight, you got to do it. You got to do it. I said, bring the guitar back to the studio. So I was being a producer. So he brought the guitar back. I said, yo, play that song. Play it for my engineer.

He played it for John Gamble. Gamble's like, that shit is fire. I said, yeah, what he didn't know was I had the Lafayette Afrook rock drums hooked up already. I said, yo, play that. Play that. I hit the MP. balk drums had hit it on he played it right to us it that's it that's the song and he was like really

i said we're going to record that tomorrow and record it the next day first pass of his vocals is that version that made it to the record because i recorded on a 16 track tape machine a tascam that i had ms 16 right a one inch 16 so we could never find that machine again i literally couldn't overdub When I took the taped LA, we couldn't find a machine. So I took it and transferred to a two-inch, but we just used the vocals over there, and then we added the strings. That was that.

So when the song hit and really... Dude, it hit six months after it came out. What it's like? What it's like. We thought we were over. We sold 3,800 copies the first week. Of the Wadi Poet album? Wow.

And Steve Rifkin had given me a job. Steve Rifkin, love Steve Rifkin, always had a check for me, always had a consulting gig, always, always, always, always check for me. He wanted me to work aloud. I was going to be the first vice president allowed A in order to perform, I didn't do it.

But he always wanted me to work with him and I gave him the album before it came out and he was like, this is the best thing you've ever done in your whole life. And when it sold 3,800 copies, the first week he called me up. He's like, I won't call Tom Silverman right now and try and buy the record.

And I was like, he's not going to sell it to. He's like, well, I'm going to see. And I don't know if you ever made that call, the record stumbled out the gate. He went on the road and actually the first show he did in New York was at Cornel and Hines, St. Mark's Place, and he killed it. And I want to say John Perelis or John Leland. Of the Times.

Someone named John who wrote for the Times was there and he gave it a stellar, stunning review and keep going on and on and on. The end in Seattle started playing the record, which is like the K-Rock of Seattle. at all indicator station. And because of that, K Rock started playing it. And almost by accident,

that record became a hit song. And it was six months. I remember the week going into Christmas, I saw Jeff Venster and he sold, he said, you sold 70,000 albums this week, Dante. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah.

He's like, that record's a huge record. And I was like, thanks, Jeff. And that was that. Wow. That record was everywhere. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, it was on TRL. Yeah, it was on.

VH1, they used to play it like every. It bought me in my house. That's how I bought my house. Wow. Yeah, from that, and I got a big publishing deal and blah, blah, blah, blah. So, vengeance is sweet, Seth, Ross. Save the Ross. I remember how, this is great.

I saw Leor and Russell, and Leor said, I am not fucking with you. Still? And Russell said, Leor, stop being a dick. Yo, I love you, Dee. Congratulations. And Lear was, he was like, stop being a dick. And he was like, you're right. I'm happy for you.

I love everyone. Like, I know no one in this industry that doesn't have their version of what they think. Leor sounds like, let's hear yours. No, I mean, see, my... Are you scared? No, but my relationship... I'm scared, yo.

That's different. He says, you have to DJ for us again. Like, my Leor thing is, I always DJed for his, I guess his then-wife. Tori. Yeah, Tori. Not his wife, his lady. They never married.

Okay. I still don't know if their item or not. That's how much I'm out of it or any. He gave me my job that I kind of have now at her house on a Saturday afternoon. Like, I love Leior. Like, that's my guy. I can't front. Yeah.

I have good Leor stories. I have a long, very complicated relationship with him, but I love it. Well, you didn't put, like, hot peppers on the tuna fish sandwich or like. Definitely. he threw many sandwiches at the back of my head. You stupid fuck. I just want one classic death jam story of like... Oh, God.

Just one. All right, so I worked there. I went out one night. I used to drink a lot. And I used to fight a lot. And Hank Shockley and me Edwards, he slapped me in the back of my head and I dropped him. And then his brother Keith ran over

and my man, this Albanian kid snuffed him. And then flashed the gun. Wait. I don't know what he just said. I'm thinking of like, oh, I found this record in. And then became Rebel without a pause. I got better. I went back to it.

Russell was there. And he was like, you stupid motherfucker. He said, that man makes hits for me. What the fuck do you do? I said, I'm sorry. He's like, all right. And on Monday, he called me to his house. And I thought he was getting fired.

And he was like, yo, you're lucky I love you. Because I should fire you. And I kept my job. And Griff called me. up at work and was like, you know motherfuckers want to come see you who was the kid who was a Puerto Rican

kid who snuffed Keith and I was like, you don't want to know him. And that kid who did that later on went to jail for murder. There's a wild Albanian kid I know. Armando. Wow. That's a deaf jam story. Be careful what you ask for.

There's a million other ones. One time me and Jamassor J. No, me and DMC we're at the show at the world, Davey DMX and Public Enemy where the performers opening night and they had this pained windows and DMC used to wear a

ring, an old English ring and he was punching pains of the windows breaking them and I said I could do that and he said do it and I did it once and I broke one and I broke another one. I did another one I cut my finger open and I had to get stitched and I still got the scarred on my day

right down my finger from punching windows with DMC who drove me to the hospital and left me there Lisa drove you there This is true And I don't know man There's a million stories

Like you know I was a wild time In my life But it was super duper fun And I met after all And I remember when I met Chuck D D there I had his demo

Before he came out For months And I didn't believe He was Chuck D Because he wasn't big enough To be Chuck D Oh yeah You had this giant

Yeah I thought he was like Six foot nine figures He were here I was like wait You're Chuck D He's like yeah I was like no you're not And he was Chuck D

That's crazy A win is a win A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind. the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network. on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed

revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see

what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disavis. infected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregal, lesbian, Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Blind Test. All right, what we do is we play you songs and you give... Do I have to be blind? No, no, no. It's like downbeat. Okay.

We'll randomly play you stuff that's significant to your career or, you know, just to get your taste on things. And we'll see what's up. It's like, rate that record? Not, you don't have to rate it. Just talk about it. Okay. All right. This one should be very interesting.

We'll see how much you know about your own history. Oh, that's homeboy shit. I don't even know. that. That opening note is Dirty's joint. Did you know what the time it was? I didn't. I didn't know it to just now. You just figured out right now? I just heard it right now. I was like, oh, that's Dirty's

joint. I didn't even know. I never knew that. Yeah, it's probably the greatest sample reveal. I had no idea. Jay Rock. I'll give a shout out to J. Rock for, yeah, like. Wow. I had no idea. Exactly.

The thousands of times. And I'm a Stevie Wonder fanatic. Yeah, who knew? That's wild. I hope the lawyers don't call. That's a beautiful record. They're going to go catch Risen now. How would you, did you negotiate with your artist that you have to remix everything on their records? I did it.

I did, I just kind of did it. I was like, I don't just go remix this. They'd be like, oh, that's cool. We'll put it out. And they didn't care. Nah, because I would do them like, I would just grab the Acapellas. I'd just do them. I literally would sit there with the vocals and I would, oh, fuck, I would sample.

them line by line by line. How crazy is that? Yeah, because that was my question. How did you keep it in time? Because, I mean, it wasn't pro tools. You couldn't line it up. Time stretch a little, though. Oh, really?

Yeah. Even with tape? Yeah. I'd make sure whatever I made was the same tempo. Ah, okay. Gotcha. Do you remember the first digital record you did? The first recording.

Whitey Ford Swings of Blues. That was the first one you called it. Okay. And then after that, everything. Merrill Caldado told me I had to get up on digital recording. And he actually... Beasties engineer. Yeah, yeah.

And when I started the second Everlast record, I had a little bit of knowledge, and I went to hung out with Mario, and he just taught me everything. And he was like, here's what we got to, here's what you got to do, okay?

Because I had, I had an ADAP moment on the first Whitey-Foy record that fucking made me cry. Hate that. I lost background vocals, like eight tracks of background vocals I had to do again.

Yeah, and I literally, like, was crying. All right. We're going to give you your second, uh, Blind Test song,

Sir Dante. Ross right here on Westlips. Mr. Dante Ross. Yes, Mr. Dante Ross. I know what that is. That's MCA and Brazuti. That's a drum machine. I remember when they made that. That shit was crazy right there.

Do you know anything about the history of the Latin rascals or just... I do. I knew those guys. I know, you know a lot about freestyle. MCA was ill. Yeah, this... Why this song never took off on Death Jam, I'll never know. Yeah, right? It's bugged out. Bersuti, Jay Burnett.

Who was Buzzooey? This guy Jay Burnett. He was one of the engineers of Chong King and the Beasties, when Mike and MCA lived in his building on Christie Street, 69 Christie Street with the Chinese Hell House

in the first floor. Wait, they called the song 69 Kids. What was the significance of it? There was Club 69. It was right there, 669 Christi Street, and they had this Chinese gangster

who was the landlord. He was like, You boys never come to Club, Club 69. Come on. my hang out. And we would always make fun of him. We'd always do his voice.

And it was this place. It was like basically there's a whole house on the first floor, the Chinese club. And it was like, what do they call fucking sweatshops. So they could make as much noises as they wanted in this fucked up loft that had rats that they lived in. And Brazuti lived in the building too. He got them, I think, the apartment. And it was like they could practice her all the time. Brzuti lived upstairs.

and he was friends with Steve Et and Steveette and obviously Rick and everybody and he made the record with MCA and Rick put it out and they never won anywhere but it was an ill record and yeah he programmed it, he did everything on it and MCA just wrote the raps and did the raps Is that the same Steve Ed did up doing bigger and deffer?

They did everything that did back then Rick's guy Steve Ed he died too Russ and peace Steveette passed away Long time ago What? Yeah. Long, long time ago. Steve had had... I mean, he's, you know, his engineering, man,

just think of how great the Beastie's record sounds and how great Raisin' Hell sounds. He was a beast. L.L. He's a beast. He was a beast. Wow, I can't even imagine. Like, at your tenure at Def Jam, like, what was the one... What was your top moment of, like, oh, my God, I had to... I gave Red Alert, Rebel Without Aplause.

I gave him the test pressing. And he played... What was the reaction when you first heard that record? He played, it was in a Latin Quarter's he played. I hadn't really heard it. He played it and he was like, yo, this shit is ill. And he played it about 45 minutes later. And the club jumped off crazy.

And I was like, oh my God, that's a hit record. I was like, that's a hit record. Well, another great memory at Def Jam is I tried to sign Boogie Down Productions. So I brought them in and it was Eric B was there, Rakim. No, just Eric B. Russell and Leor and Scott and Scotty Morris was there

I think Dee was there but he never remembers this and Karras won was like they were like yo we don't want to be on deaf jam Why? Karis was like yo I'm deaf I don't need the deaf jam I already got that

Like he didn't want to fuck him Because he didn't trust him He just was paranoid So he didn't trust him And we didn't get them And if you notice He took shots He was always taking shots

And he took shot at run DMC, took some shots, and I think that has something to do with it, too. Yeah. You know, he don't want to fuck with them. And he was, you know, he was salty with the juice crew. He was trying to just, you know, he was ready to go out. He was ready to whatever at any time. But in his head, he thought it was better to be on B-Boy Records than...

No, so here's what happened. They knew that they could get out of the B-Boy Records contract that had been voided. So they were a free agent, kind of. And then Scott got killed. And then we had another meeting with Karras won. And he said, I'm not really trying to. sign here, but you should sign my man D-Nice, and we didn't sign D-Nice. Wow.

And I remember there was a lot of confusion because George Hena Hose was saying he managed him and he didn't manage him. I think there was a little problem over that. Before I do the last record, are there any other near misses that you could have signed but you did? So many. DOS FX. I didn't sign it.

I had it. The first time I'm dead series? The biggest miss I ever had was Tribe Call Quest. I left my job of Tommy Boy with the intent of signing Tribe Call Quest and brand new being and the DOC at a lecture records and I lost two out of three of them. The DOC? You had a relationship with Dre to do that?

Jerry Heller was in my office with Dr. Dre and Michelle A. E.E. And they wanted to bring them there because they had a song called Bridget that they wouldn't put out if you've ever heard it. It's out there on the net. It's a filthy record. It's amazing.

Bridget was a dumb hole. Bridget was a dumb hole. Bridget. I think she fucked the midget. Bridget, it was wild. This is a wild record. So it's all about them running the train on her. right? End of the man or her.

Like, how do you spend this to Tommy Silverman? So Tom didn't want to spend the money because it was a $175,000 deal. He didn't want to spend it. I went over to work at Electra. I tried to get the deal, and they thought they could get out of East-West deal. My lawyer, Gary Casson, said,

we can't compete against one of the labels and Warner Music Group. We can't go and do this. And my boss told me, Jerry Heller, don't trust that guy. I remember him told me that. He's like, he's not trustworthy. And when I read Jerry's book, he told the story, no, omitted me from the story and told a bullshit version of it.

But that's okay, because Jerry Heller's Jerry Heller. Right. And I have no, you know, bad feelings for him. But he didn't tell the truth. And I didn't sign that in Tribe. I had $300,000, which was a gang of loot on the table back then. It was. And I think I went up to 375, and they signed a jive, and they came up after publishing.

and they didn't know the game back then and Chris Lighty for years I'd be like you could have kept your publisher and that should have been my group and uh yikes I have a long intricate history with with those guys and and uh yeah it's I mean it was like

me and Chris you know remained very close friends throughout all of that and those were bands that I lost there's some others along the way um I lost stuff recently even that did well and you know there's a bunch of stuff I've lost but those are ones that really stick out. And DOS Effects, honestly, I didn't believe in it.

I was like, I don't believe in it. I was like... You thought it was novelty? I thought it was novelty. I lost souls of mischief. I signed Della and I should have signed souls. And I didn't sign souls because Stretch Arm from him and Daddy Reef worked at Big Bee. And those are my sons.

And I was like, they were like, we want to sign souls. I was like, get that, get that. Kind of how Maddie gave me dirty. And Sophia stepped in and got it. Yeah, but that was supposed to be on Big Beat. Oh, souls are supposed to be on Big Beat? Yeah, and I should have signed them. I didn't sign them.

And they had 93, too, on the demo and all that. All of that. So were you behind artifacts? Were you on BB? That wasn't you? No. That was reef did that. You know, I didn't do that.

What else did I miss? Those are noticeable misses. I tried to swing third base to Tommy Boy and Tommy Boy didn't like them. They didn't want to sign them. I helped make third base a group. But Sam, separate part of like your stimulated dummies click? No, no, but he was my man and shit. He was my boy and he showed me how to use some equipment and he borrowed a few records here and there.

He put me up on the Ultimate Breaks and Beats, and he kicked some knowledge my way. He was definitely younger than me, but like my mentor on some levels. What would you use, like a 1,200? 1,200, and then we went to the MPs. An SB200 drum machine? Yeah, that's the one.

That's the box. I mean, you know who the master of the SP12 was? Wait, what are you all having? I just got to big up with someone who no one talks about Paul C. He was the master, the SP12. Did you know Paul C? I knew him well. He's my man.

That's probably how I know Large. And the other day, Large gave me the biggest compliment He said, yo, when it comes to like beat knowledge I always held you up to where Paul C and I was like, damn, because he's the king of kings He showed me, he's the one who told me by every get-out my life woman. He showed me skull snaps

Took me shopping. He was that guy. He was an amazing producer and he would have got paid. I mean, he did a lot of records you don't know he did. You know, including stuff for Airbnb Rockin, give the drummer some for Ultra Magnetic. Oh, I know.

Stizo. Oh, wow. It's my turn. He did it's my turn. He did let the rhythm hit him for Eric B. He did let the rhythm hit him. He did, oh, he did do the James. He did do the James?

That was his kick? That's him. And they killed the peach the best to me. Oh, my God, yes. He did all those records and he mixed him in a room that was about this big. He was a nasty, nasty, nasty muscle. So was he primarily an engineer? Engineer and a producer and a digger.

He was a serious digger. For real, really. Real, real digger. I heard the legend of Paul C in 1990, right? I think so, 89. He did organized Confusions demo and they were called Simply Too Positive STP, and I wanted to sign him

and he had Braupped up. He had bra and he had the Eddie Harris joint too, the one that brand new being used. So... He was nasty and asked Paul about him if you ever get a large pro up here. So whenever I, when I think about large, I always think about Paul C too.

So, you know, Paul C, he was a legend. and he got taken out before his time. Well, the last record, I'm just, of course he signed L-O-N-S, but it's something about this album. It's just... Big Lodge. Oh, this? Big Lodge.

Mastie Lodge. I was close. Buster goes solo because of this. Yes. His man backspin. did this. Really? Backspin was ill.

I don't know what happened he was bugged out. Feminine fat. Peminine fat. Permanent fat. Yeah, to me, feminine fat should have been a single

and I always wanted to know. Let me hear those dunes for a minute. That's Phil Cosby? No, Book of Team MGs. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Sing a simple song, join. No.

The, uh, da, da, da. Come on what you mean. I wouldn't have bad luck if it wasn't for back. Yeah, yeah. The silver album. Yes, it's on there. I always, that's the question.

I play this to ask you, why was this not a single? Because the rest of the band wouldn't go for it. That's Bustin. I always thought, like, when I heard that bus, I was like, damn, he got that yard man shit. He's ill. It was like a real, that sounds like a real Brooklyn record to him. I can't even explain why.

This has that yard man feel. Bus was so, he was so incredible, yo. He was just so charismatic from day one. To this day, I still spend feminine fat. by leaders of the new school. I haven't heard that record in at least 10 years. That's an ill one. It's incredible.

I bought that, yeah, I was 12 when it came out. Where's the vibe chemist backspin at? He was ill. He had a couple of joints on that album. I don't think he ever did anything out. So he produced this?

Yeah. And that was Buster's Man from Brooklyn. What else did he do? He did a couple of songs on that album. I have to see the album, my memory's a little hazy. But he didn't have any other productions afterwards? Not that I'm aware of.

Maybe something here or there, but nothing significant. Okay, so there's so much that we have not special. We didn't even get on to Santana. Oh, yeah, yeah. Is your only Grammy of the Santana record? I only got one, sorry, bro.

Can I still hang? Of course he can't, bro. I just want to make sure. Yeah, yeah, I got that. I did, uh, everlast. That was the first song we did after he, because he had a heart attack. I did Whitey Ford Sing the Blues,

which I forgot to mention. He was born in congeneral heart disorder, and his cummine was misprescribed, and he had a heart attack. He almost died. I mixed the album without him. He was in hospital recuperating, and then he got better,

one on tour, and I got a call from Pete Gambar, And he was like, do you guys have a song for Santana? And I said, yeah, sure. And we didn't. And Everlast was in town, coincidentally, doing Good Morning America. And he was like, yo, let's track the song. And I took a beat that was from the old casual song that had a Latin feel to it with a bongo in it.

And I was like, yo, I think these drums are rock. He's like, those are perfect. And we used those drums. And he recorded it. And then I basically ripped off the Aaliyah drum break, one in a number. million and I used that in a break and that was the song and I gave Pete the demo like 36 hours later and he was like when can you go do it and I was like when can you write a check he said how much do you need and I asked him for the biggest check I'd ever ask anyone for him my whole life to produce a record

and he's like no problem and I wanted to did the record wow and I worked with Santana two times after that and it was cool I worked with him at anthony hamilton that was that was badass because I wrote the lyrics on that song too and I never really write lyrics so so yeah Carlos Santana he's ill he's the coolest and And Anthony Hamilton is the coolest, too. Those are the days. You know, I don't produce records anymore, but I always think the Santana record is like the last significant record I produced, the one with Anthony Hamilton. And to me, that's, you know. Which album was this?

Which Santana was on All That I Am? Okay. That was like, I think that was the last one needed on Jay. And when I did the song, they made me, Josh Stone did the original vocal. And I had to change the whole register of the song for her. And it didn't rock right and she didn't sing it right. And I took it the club and he handed me. me the demo back and was like, go put the guy on it. That doesn't work. And I went to

recut the entire record again in the original register with the band and then Anthony came and sang it. And what's crazy is I played keyboards on it and I don't really play keyboards all that well, but I just, you know, I chopped my shit up. I played the warlitzer on it. And they had Serbian mix it and he bricked the mix. Wow. Serbian. He didn't, because he didn't know how the record's supposed to sound. It's supposed to sound like a Donny Hath away right. This is Serbian from Neptune's, y'all. So I went out to Cali, and I sat with them, and he said, what do I do?

I said, how much they pay you? And he told him, I said, maybe you should do it yourself. And then I was like, no, man, I'm fucking trying. I sat down and I fixed it around, and I said, that's the record. So initially you sent it to Serban blind to handle it? I didn't do that. They did that. Okay.

I'm about to say Serb. I want a Bob Powers a mixer, Keepin 100. Or Jamie Stalb. They just wasn't trying to hear that. Serban is the first, and probably the exception of Jimmy Douglas, the only cat that I've ever just. Jimmy Douglas is nice. Sent a mix to and I was like, yeah, we know what we do. I know what you.

I mean, he just didn't know. I wanted to sound like a Donnie Hathaway record. I wanted to sound. I didn't want it to sound. He thought it was all about the drums and it wasn't. Yeah, well, Jimmy Douglas is awesome for that. Yeah, he's bad. Like he just, you give him a reference.

He's like, yeah, I did that back in 74. Yeah, right. He probably did. He did slave. Black he'd slave. Foreigner. Barry White, like all that stuff. And he did Timberlin.

He's the G. Yeah. He is. Yeah, I mean, so. So after, I mean, you did the Santa, I got the stuff after. Yeah, I did, I did the second ever last record. I did a, you know, I did all these remixed for every rock rap band in the world. I made a lot of money doing that.

Like, I did like six corn remixes and incubus and fucking all that bullshit. And I was just polishing more and more turds. I got to be honest. I was just like, you know, it was like, it wasn't getting better. It was getting worse. And I got this big publishing deal, and I was like, I'm going to be a songwriter. There's one problem with me being a songwriter. I can't really play an instrument that well, and I don't know how to write lyrics.

So being a songwriter is probably pretty hard for me. But I got a couple songs off, and I did these last two records. I can name what they are, but they were not artistically fulfilling. And I started working with Travis Barker, and I helped him out, make his solo record. And I was living in L.A. and my dad, Pat. and Leor called me up. He knew how close to me and my dad were, and he offered me a job of Warner Brothers.

I went and I took a job working at Warner Brothers in New York. I moved back. I was living in L.A. And I did a third ever last record to do that tank. And Lear was the third one? What was the third one called? I had White Trash Beautiful. Yeah.

So I did it and Leorrard gave him the deal and then Leor quit like eight weeks before the record came out and I got stuck with L.A. Reed trying to explain what the record was about And that, you know, you can tell her that way. You know, it is what it is. So, Lear, I guess, felt he owed me one.

And he asked me if I wanted an A&R job. And I was like, yeah, you know, there's a couple things in my life I've been good at. That's one of them. So I took the job in New York and I worked there for a couple years. And I got to tell you, it was very frustrating for the first few years. I found this guy named McLemore and Tom Moskowitz told me sucked. And I told Lear, I was going to quit. What happened to that kid?

Yeah, right. I told me I was going to quit, Todd wouldn't let me sign anything. He said, take it to ADA, see if Kenny wants to do it. Kenny Wiggly, I connected him and Zach Quillan. He ended up doing the deal.

The record came out, and I went to work at ADA and became vice president in ADA, and I still worked in now. You know, so it all worked out in the end. Amazing. And, you know, I mean, I can't necessarily say I was like,

I'm recognized as MacMores A&R because the way we do records at ADAs, we kind of take finished records. It's a distribution company with label services. But since then, I signed a little Dickie, you know, save that money is my record. Oh, really? Yeah, and that's like a platinum single.

And I signed Made in Tokyo, who had the Uber everywhere, which just won platinum too. So I had a little, you know, a nice little run in downtown. The other record didn't sell the singles sold. And so it's been a good little, you know, 12 months over there for me. I'm about to be senior vice president and blah, blah, blah, blah, all that bullshit, all the bells and whistles. But it's ironic that 25 years later, I'm kind of back where I started, you know, doing A&&O. in the Warner Music Group again

and having a very good run right now. But the disparity in the music I work on is really mind-boggling. My good friend Pete said, he used to do all dirty bastard. It's okay, you have enough credibility. You can do whatever you want to do. I mean, I had this record,

this Jordan Belfort record, man. I mean, that's a gold record, but you guys would punch me if you heard the record. You'd be like, yeah, I gave you crab tonight? We did. No, but here's the thing. though the thing is is that now that you're

older and wiser 100% and you know that the tastes of your youth are not exactly in line 100% what is out today like how do you trust yourself when you know

how do you know this is going to work versus I really love this there's analytics right that plays into it I do heavy analytics I help run

the research department for Atlantic because I also work at Atlantic. So I am one of the heads of that. So research driven and then like in the case of McLemore I just really believed in what he was. Like I saw it live

and I was like oh this this I connect to. So however you feel about him he's exceptional at what he does right and I recognize his exceptionalist. I thought he was great at what he does and we talk about Little Dickies so same thing. I thought he was great at what he did.

Like he's really good at what he does, like him or not. So I guess I do my job with less sentiment, right, with less of my heart and more of my brains. And I also am keyed in to knowing it's a singles market. It's a streaming world. Your album may never sell. And the end result of that, two-fold. One, I've become much smarter at my job,

much less emotionally connected and attached, which allows me to leave my job at my desk and enjoy my life more. life, yeah. Right? And I reap the benefits financially, but too, I feel like me and, and lots of other people who do what I do for living, we have killed the art form of the classic great rap record album. The rap album is no longer important due to streaming, and we have to, if we want to survive in the business, accept that fact. And I've accepted that fact begrudgingly, but I accept that fact. And that is what it is right now. And, you know, when I,

I, when I, you know, I do a lean and mean, man, I don't, much like my early days, I don't spend a lot of money picking these records up. I allow people to own themselves. You own your masters and a large, a large royalty. It's a whole different way of doing business. But, but I think, for me, exciting because I feel like I'm contributing to the independent side of the culture. And for me, that's exciting. And I balance it out by going to play records with Just Blaze and large pro and digging and, you know, doing all the other things I like. So, you know, kind of my life has a lot of balance to it. Do you ever pray that it will come full circle again?

I do. There will be a generation that wants to dig again. I don't know if that will ever happen because of finances, right? Clearing records cost too much money. But I do believe there are great rappers in the world. J. Elect, for one, is a great rapper. Chance to rapper is phenomenal. There's lots of young.

Who's Jay Lett? Jayle. Just playing. Just playing. Yeah. Where is that guy? But, you know, and I, and I, Even like future, it's a different thing, but once again, for what he does, he's phenomenal.

And there's polarizing artists like a little yachti who I have to respect because he's polarizing, right? But there are people who still really can rap. You know, I believe YG makes really good music, a chance to rapper, Vic Mensa. You know, there's lots of guys out there who still spit and still rap really great. And then there's lots of guys who make good music. Maybe they're not the greatest rappers because my bar is set with Rock him, right? So my bar is here, but that's okay because I look at music in chambers.

Everything has their own chamber. So I can't expect the trap-wrap dude of the day to be rock in. If I expected that, I'll always be miserable. I'll be the cranky old man in my size 38 jeans, beefing with the fitted hat, and that's not me. Boss Bill. Right now I'm pointing to boss Bill.

You know, I have to be... I have to be abreast of what's popping right now. And, you know, I mean, that's how I am culturally, too. I never wanted. See, because when I was young, the old bitter dude, I didn't like that dude. So I don't want to be that old bitter dude. No one wants to be the old bitter dude. No one wants to be MC, you know, that dude's corny.

But we're that bitter? No, I'm not. I mean, I'm not bitter, man, and I find things I love. And, you know, I'm trying to do a couple things right now, I believe in, and whether it gets done or not, who knows. But that said, you know, the problems with doing A&R now is no secrets. Everybody knows everything. So everything goes zero to 60 right away, right? Right away. even from when we found McLemore to now,

things have changed dramatically. So the kind of artist that I work with wants to remain independent. He doesn't necessarily want to be part of the big machine because we have seen so many guys get signed to that big label and the brakes come on and that's that. And that's been since forever,

but we really see it now, right? And I can name 10 guys who had a big buzz and they got signed to that major, it was over, yeah. There came to break. You know, the other thing, the other side of is for me to bring something in a building that's at zero and think I'm going to go zero to 60 with it, it's probably not going to

happen. He has, that artist has to be dead. You got to build it. You got to be able to do it himself, and we all can do it because right there, Quest got his laptop, that's your whole world right there. That's your record company. That's your recording studio. That's your marketing tool. That's your vice president of marketing. That's your promo team. That's everything. Everything. Right? And, you know, man, just get it on iTunes. It can end up in the streaming world and you can win. And I mean, look at chance, man. He said, fuck you to everybody.

Most punk rock shit ever. I tried to sign him when he put out 10 day. I flew to Chicago. He was like, nah, right? And he told me I wasn't the first one there. And he was that shrewd enough to say no? He said no to Sylvia Rome before he said no to me. Somebody's backing that dude, though.

Who's back in that dude? His manager has a lot of money, but he makes a lot of money. He's a touring act. Look, man, it's a hard ticket world right now. If you're out there touring. That's amazing. And I can name five guys, and I'm not giving away no secrets who are touring acts, who don't need a record deal.

The suicide boys don't need a record deal. Puyah don't need a record deal. I mean, little young Duff don't need a record deal. These dudes don't need record deals. They are on the road making money, selling merch, doing whatever they do. And they're not selling thousands, hundreds of thousands of records. But let's be real, the new gold records 100,000.

The new gold album is 100,000. The single might sell a million. I caught a couple this year. But my albums are not selling like that. Nobody's are. It's a different game. But you know what? I'm shrewd enough.

And I've always been involved in technology enough because I was a producer, like, and I shifted with time that I see where it goes and where it's going. And hopefully I can continue to do that. If I don't, I don't got a job, right? And I don't know how to do that many other things. I pray for the practice of acceptance. I have, like, a serious meditation practice and all this other tree hugger bullshit I do. And that's important.

That's very important. That is important. Every day. I got to wake up in the morning. I have to make, you know, conscious contact with. my higher power. That's what I started on my day. Did Russell get on you about that? Not at all. He got on me about that, about meditating and stuff.

I mean, I'm meditating and pray. I've, after my father died, I just developed a much deeper connection to my higher power. So I had to deal with a lot. So, you know, you get closer to God when things happened. Did it? Right? So also, you know, I live a 100% sober life for a long time now. And, you know, I don't smoke or drink anymore. And, you know, I'm still bad with ladies. That's, that's progress, not perfection. But, um, you You know, man. It's like, I'm happy where I am. You know, it's like I'm blessed to still have a job and still have, you know, a source of income doing what I love.

And I have all these great relationships with people I worked with for my whole life. And, you know, it's, damn, I talked to posternus today, you know. It's like I spoke to mugs over the weekend. Like, I have these friends who I'm going to, it's like I always say we didn't go to college. We went to hip hop, you know? That's a quote for your ass right there. You know, that's what we did. And this was our hip-hop.

whether, you know, was hanging on with Ali Shaheed recently or whoever. It's like we are part of this thing that's so much bigger than us. And I'm just, I always want to be Steve Cropper or Jerry Wexler. And I'm not going to say on those guys, but I have a little piece of the history of what this is about and continue to write my history.

And for me, that's enough. You signed ODB. Yeah. And got a completed record out of ODB record. I got a lot of good stories. I think that puts you up there, bro. Brat, well, you know, I can go on forever.

Thank you for fulfilling my nerd fantasy on just the whole Renaissance era of hip hop. Dante Ross, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. That's up. Thank you, guys. That was amazing. Gentlemen, we've learned a lot about Renaissance hip-hop.

Ticolo, any final thoughts. Man, I'm just, man, I'm just, it's just so amazing how, like, I wonder if there's a correlation between, you know, hearing him talk about how the records were cheap, how cheap the records were, you know, for a record, you know, like a day law to get made for like 90,000 or whatever, for something so groundbreaking to be made for so cheap and you look at what, what rap budgets became later on, you know, is, I think there's something to be said, you know, doing, sometimes you can do more with less. I think that forces you to be, in some ways, that force you to be a lot more creative because you really, you got to make every, everything count, every dollar, every dollar, every, every. every minute in the studio, every real, like everything, you know what I'm saying? So you can't really fuck around. And they always say that, like, necessity is a mother invention.

So, you know, if you don't have the money to pay for, you know, whatever, whatever studio equipment you need and you can come up with something. Yeah, you got to make it. Yeah, you got to figure it out. That's amazing. Yeah, I got to say that my rule number one is I hate those comfort studios. I mean, a lot of them are shutting down now. But, like, one of the biggest things about, like, Roots albums,

was the fact that when we track the music, when I did like the music and the stuff, I wanted it in the most uncomfortable, unsavory, non, I mean, we always joke like fruit basket situation and not in a food basket situation. Like, Tariq needs to be comfortable in a, you know, sunshine and fruit baskets and all that stuff and free pastries, that sort of thing.

Oh, man. I mean, he got to be in his own. And, you know, he needs fresh pastries. fruit baskets, but, like, you know, I want to be opposite. Like, even now when I make roots records, I record them in our dressing room at 30 Rock, which is essentially our, you know, it's like a closet. I just have this, this fear of going soft if I'm in a comfortable environment. So maybe it's a good thing that, you know, what would the LONS record sound like with a

$700,000 budget. Yeah, I mean, who would know if they were given their righteous budget? But then it kind of also makes me mad that that even labels didn't see the art that they had on their

hands to, you know, give it justice. I mean, yeah, I think that was the selling point kind of a lot of hip-hop. And you talk to, you know, a lot of OGs in the game, they all say that, like, the selling point of hip-hop, it wasn't, I don't think the labels really understood the music. It was just it could be produced for so cheap.

the profit margin on it was so high. So it was like, okay, you mean we ain't got to bring a drummer, a bassist, a guitarist, and we just need just you and your records. Okay, cool. We'll sign it. So hip-hop is truly the new blues. Oh, my God. The new blues and labels are just Alan Lomax's walking around with field recordings

and shit. Young thug. Live on location. It is natural environment. It is natural environment. We're live here at the trap house with Sir Gucci of name. Talking about

Mr. LaFlair himself. Unpaid Bill, Steve, you know, you guys are intricate vital parts of this show. Did you learn anything

special? Dante Ross is some Jedi, Yoda, hip-hop God. Yes, I learned that. I was also impressed by someone who has a career music and somewhere in the middle of it at this point to have that kind of longevity and continue to do groundbreaking

shit at each turn is really unbelievable and I don't, you know, something to aspire to, I suppose. Yeah, I think we all want to be Dante Ross when we grow up. When we grow up, we want to be Dante Ross when I grow up. I feel like, yeah, this is our new single. It's called Troy.

That's right. Acronym, son. Troy. So, you know, Boss Bill, any final thoughts? Really the whole black bastard situation kind of stuck in my head. Like just kind of, you know, hearing names of people who were kind of voted it down kind of made me angry. It didn't. But it didn't make perfect sense.

It made perfect sense, but it still incensed me because of the fact that, you know, just learning that they didn't even bother listening to the album or to get the rationale behind the artwork, you know. I cannot wait to get on Facebook. the ass half lock about in their defense in the label's defense and i'm being granted this is probably the only time i would ever come to defense from fucking later i'm like who are you let me be clear in their defense you know they this was post cop killer right right right i understand it but like they wasn't i mean you get a letter from the government and it was you really get a letter from the government too so yeah yeah it's same shit it's like okay i can't fuck me i got a letter from

the government for real gun shy i get it i get it well but i mean if it hadn't happened then you know, probably would have never had mad villain and M.M. Food. M.M. Food. And Operation Dimes. Yeah. So I guess it all worked out for the best. Yeah. I guess it did work out for the best. On behalf of Fontykola Coleman,

Sugar Steve, unpaid Bill, and Boss Bill. This is Questlove Supreme. Thank you. And I'll talk to y'all later. Questlove Supreme is a production of High Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

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