The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Danyel Smith

Episode Date: September 20, 2026

In 2022, while promoting her latest book Shine Bright: A Very Personal History of Black Women in Pop, acclaimed music journalist and author Danyel Smith joined Questlove Supreme for an episode. She spoke with Questlove and Team Supreme about the book, her years leading VIBE magazine, and her experiences writing about Whitney Houston, Tupac Shakur, and Arrested Development.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There should not be a single law enforcement agency. It does not have body cameras. It's real. Black farmers have been under attack. This is just the latest example of them just slapping DEI on anything. It's raw. And I'm sitting here going, they are playing y'all for fools. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network.

and download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove with another classic episode of QLS back in 2022. We spoke with one of the great reporters and authors in music, Daniel Smith. Team Supreme and I got to hear Daniel's story. Coming up in the Bay Area to running the show at Vibe

and pinning some of really incredible books. We talked about the Arrested Development story, which has always stayed with me, as well as their experiences covering Whitney Houston and Tupac. Daniel came to promote her latest book at the time called Shine Bright, A Very Personal History of Black Women in Pomp. I highly recommend checking out that book, all right? It's really great. And of course, check out this episode. Enjoy Daniel Smith on Questleaf Supreme, Classic. How are you guys?

Steve, I realize in the last five episodes, you hardly said a word. Are you okay? Yes. There you go. All right. Fonte, you're in a purple room now. All right, my fault. It's still the after effects of your studio.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. I just, you know, I feel like I give y'all a little green light decor today, a little YouTube makeup artist vibe. Oh, I got you. I got you. What's the tip we're getting today? Today, sir. Today we're getting how to do winged eyeliner.

Oh, okay. And I'll like you. How's it going with you? Oh, it's going good. I'm on an island somewhere hoping my Wi-Fi don't shit on y'all. Hey. Nice. On vacation.

Good to hear. Yeah, a little pre-out vacation. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, now I can introduce our guest. Our guest today is, of course, she's an award-winning author, novelist, journalist, magazine editor from the Yay Area.

The Yay Area. I don't know. I don't even know if people in the Bay Area call it the Yay Area, but I'm going on a limb and calling it the Yale area. Like North Kakalaki. No one calls it North Kakalaki. Yeah, no one calls it that that lives here.

Except for the roots when they're on stage. I will say that I got to know and subsequently feared this woman. when she was the first black editor-in-chief at the much-loved Vibe magazine starting in 1994. I believe you replaced Alan Light, correct? I did, in fact.

Yeah. I did, in fact, replace Alan. If ever you guys wondered, why is Amir obsessed with journalists more than he's obsessed with his fellow peers in the music business, I will honestly tell you it starts with this woman

because I only realized the power of the pin when it came from our guest today. She's released an awesome book and if you're a fan of this show and if you're fan of just inside speak of music genre that you know and love but things that you might not have known, I highly recommend you guys,

it shine bright, a very personal history of black women and pop, where literally not only does she reveal her awesomely kind of adventurous journey and life with her family coming up from the Bay Area, Los Angeles, and of course living all over and navigating through music, but she even manages to break down and share stories of just intricate stories of artists that you love but you really don't know about like from the Dixie Cups to the Sherelles

to shit I didn't even know Leontyne Price was related to DiR Warwick right? You know, Sissy and Whitney Houston and you know just draw on the parallels of how they you know those those four generations between Leonty Price and Sissy Houston and Dionne Warwick

and Whitney Houston and what they've done in breaking barriers for just basically progressing forward. But not to mention, you know, Diana Ross, name it, Gladys Knight, Donna Summer, Merlin McCoo, even. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlough Supreme, Daniel Smith. Thank you. How are you? Oh, oh, oh, oh. I mean, I'm doing good because I'm over here with y'all, so it just feels really good and really special. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Where are you speaking to us right now? From where are you? From my home in Southern California, specifically in Venice, California. Hey. Oh, nice. Okay. I didn't know. I'd see. I didn't know if you were an East Coast or West Coaster. I mean, I feel pretty equally both over the course of my life at this point. I mean, I think I did 23 years on the East Coast between most of it in Manhattan.

Most of it in Brooklyn, some of it in Manhattan, some of it in Washington, D.C. But I'm back home in the great country of California. So it's good to be here. Good to have you. Okay, so the thing is, your shine bright book, it's almost like Jeopardy, where your shine bright book, in my opinion, is almost like an episode of Questlove Supreme without us asking the questions, you know. So it's almost like if I were to go.

Well, no, literally, she, you know, especially. It's a cheat sheet. It's a good cheat sheet. Especially in the first chapter where you're breaking down your journey. It's almost like I feel like it's disservice to even recap that. So I kind of want to take a different route with this episode than I would normally do if you were a recording artist. And, well, you know, one, I want to just ask the obvious. why did you feel the need to construct this book and tell these stories? Why does you feel the need to sort of construct the story and the manner that you did?

And why was it so long overdue? Well, let me answer the second question first. Why was it so long overdue? It's a combination of, on my part, timing, combination, add to that a lot of second guessing myself, add to that, a little bit of fear, and add to that I hadn't quite figured out the best way to tell it. I just hadn't. I had to get to that place.

I had to get really strong, I think, a way that I hadn't felt probably, I don't know, in half a decade. by the time I finished Shine Bright. So it's all my fault. It's not my editor's fault. It's not anybody I interviewed. It's not their fault. It's my fault.

Just being uncharacteristically slow and missing of deadlines, which I have... So this took you 10 years? Oh, let me tell you something. If my husband was here, he would say it took me eight. I feel like I've been writing it since I was eight years old, but I think technically it took me six years. All right. You're speaking of your husband, beloved Elliot Wilson.

Y-N. Yeah. Why in the house? 17 years. 17 years. That's awesome. In hip-hop, that is it. Right?

Like straight off and down. I don't know. I don't know. But yeah, so it took me too long. I'm not going to lie. But, you know, it just, the timing was right. It was the reason why I wanted to do it is, you know, long story short, when Whitney He said,

used to then died in 2012, which she shouldn't have. But when she did die in 2012, you know, people approached me and said, could you just write a bio of her really quickly? And, you know, let's go heavy on the drugs. Let's go heavy on the bad marriage. And you know, I was just like, no. They would tell you that? Yes.

In a sentence. In one sentence. Yes. What? Oh, my God. Like what? Like, drugs? Bobby.

Like, let's go. How fast can you get it done? And I was like, I'll have it to you on the 12th of never. Like, I'm not doing that. So I came back to some folks with an idea about doing the history of Black Women in Pop. I sold that. And I was never finishing that. And then I left that publisher.

And I went back home, so to speak, to Chris Jackson. And at One World, Chris Jackson published my, I have two novels from the early 2000s, more like Wrestling and Bliss that Chris Jackson published. And so I wanted to go back home with him. One, because he's a genius, and two, because I trust him deeply. And he just said, you know, eventually he said, you're going to have to put yourself in the book. I'm eternally grateful to him for saying that. And then I spoke to my sister, who's so much a part of Shine Bright.

And my sister was like, are you asking me if you could tell my story? She was basically like, B-I-T-C-H, you should have been told it. So then we were off to the races. You know, at the top of the introduction, you know I was sort of tongue in cheek when I said that that I loved and feared you only because I I realized I mean for starters you know with the source and with vibe and at least the first wave of late 80s early 90s journalism being sort of in a serious form and not just like and this is not to take away from Cynthia Horner or Black Pete or Steve Ivory or those guys

but you know there really hasn't been black critical writing and although I've seen it with rock journalism like I've never seen a take down article or anything of that level from the black side of things and you know you ran it very tight like your version of Vibe magazine

which I guess is 94 when did you leave by 90s? I started as I started as music editor in 94. I was there in 96. Went back to school for a year to 97, came back, got promoted to be the first black and first woman, editor-in-chief of Vibe in 97.

I left in 99. Then I came back in 06, and was editor-in-chief of Vibe again, 06, 0-7-08. Two years. Two years. Every time. I would say that, you know, your era was way different. I noticed immediately your era. from say Alan Light's period

I guess the treacher issue was what 91 I believe 92 92 to 94 and not to say that you know because I'm friends with Alan like I'm not saying it was light in the ass but

I definitely saw a noticeable difference between both those issues and that said I don't know in my mind and I think this is often of how the world will see black women as you know we always use these words like strong you will use fierce and all those sort of colloquialisms to describe them um and so i was a bit taken aback you know at how vulnerable

you got um especially in the first chapter speaking of your imposter syndrome and you like you know because it was kind of like whoa like you don't see a human side well i'm journalists often don't insert themselves or that sort of thing. So I was really just, I was pleasantly surprised of how you weaved your life of music. Like I love those type of things, whereas not that I'm just learning a lesson of the artist, but I'm also learning the effect that it had on you because your writing career also had an effect on an artist as well. I learned a lot from Alan. Allen first gave me my first album review when he was editing the review section at Rolling Stone.

That's my first Rolling Stone. Where's your first album? It was in Vogue, the second album. Funky Divas? Yes. You gave it two stars. Yeah, I did it. I did it.

I didn't. Come on. I was a big homer at that time. If I'm not still just a big old homer. Come on, man. You know they were going to call me to do Amvoke. Come on. Weird. Okay, so.

Two stars for real? That's real life, Daniel. I don't know. Don't listen. Don't listen to him here. Don't know. I'm going to tell you something, Danielle. You can't, you can't debate me on this. When I tell you, like, in the order of, I met a cat, a cat like Fonte will study emcee, study music, study production, whatever. I don't know. Like, I study record reviews. I study journalists. Like, I study the people that determine whether or not an album is going to have shelf life or not. I very much, no, here's the thing, though, I actually agreed with you. I didn't realize that you were the one that wrote that. And to be fair, did I give it two stars? Well, I was going to say, to be fair, you don't determine how many stars it gets. I don't. The publication.

They do. Yes. And by the way, that's always the case. That was the case at the source, too, and that was the case that vibe. When we used to give our little red light, green light, yellow light, or whatever we used to do at five. The music editor determines it. But, yeah, I remember. Everybody doesn't know that, y'all.

Y'all know that, right? I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I'm a fan. What you're saying, is the person who wrote that whole review doesn't have anything to do with those stars. So how do they come up with them stars? The music editor. The music editor will determine it. Yes. So it's not even based on what you wrote.

It's just based on what the music editor thinks. No, it's kind of based on what you wrote and it's based on whatever their taste is also. But, okay, so since you're kind of doing this in the next. 90s and I will say that you know post K.S. 1 PM Dornish confrontation levels. I mean, you worked at Vyb

where and you worked at Vib during one of the most dangerous issues of all time. I did. Which is the death row issue. Wouldn't your music other than at least want to give you warning if they're going to give it a less than savory rating?

I could never answer that question except for on a case by case basis. honestly. As you said, it was a very wild time. And when you say I worked at vibe during the most dangerous time during the death row issue, I mean, I really honestly have to look at the dates. One, because

I blocked so much of that trauma out of my... 95. Oh, it's a mirror. Oh, I remember everything. I'm sorry. Because what I think people tend to forget, at least with me,

is that especially with regard to death row and Tupac. Tupac wasn't just celebrity emcee for me he's actually a good friend of mine from Oakland and so I recused myself from a lot of the coverage of Tupac almost until after he passed it was such a complex time at that time such a time when I always say the vibe called upon

the strongest part of me and that it got it it got it it it got it and it did wear me out which is why you know your music editor for two years at least talking about me, I'm music editor for two years, and then I get a fellowship and I go to Northwestern for a year, because I just wanted out for a while. You know, I wanted out for a while. And while I was gone, while I was in Chicago or in Evanston,

both Biggie and Tupac were murdered while I was not even working at him. I ended up writing the obituary for Biggie for the village voice. But I wasn't even working at that time. I was trying to. Okay. And then I came back in 97, everybody had died. And I put Kirk Franklin on the cover because he was, number one, with the Stomp remix. And I felt like that was the second line.

I felt like we had been mourning for a while. Right. We had thought that hip hop was going to die. We thought that everything that the mainstream had said about it was going to be true, that it was just a fad, it wasn't real. We was all going to kill each other. And then, you know, you began to feel it rising from its ashes. You know, you got to remember, like, that's when,

Miseducation came out. Really, Lauren Hill doesn't get the credit she deserves for helping bring hip hop back to life after the death of Tupac Chakour and the notorious B-I-G. And then you add Kirk Franklin and Salt, they don't also get the credit either one of them for helping bring a hip-hop back to life. And that was actually my first cover as editor-in-chief of I was Kirk Franklin and the family. That's how I came back in 97 and believe me, my publishers and the business people were like, this is a soft cover, it's never going to sell, it's not going to sell, it's not going to sell.

And I wasn't really that person that was always bragging about like, I know what the streets is filling. I was not always that girl. I'm very much a pop girl. Pop is in the title of My Shine Bright, but it's like I did know what the hell was going on. And I knew that there's no way that a song was going to number one R&B, I believe top 10 pop for the Stomp remix. and it wasn't like having a major impact on the culture.

I also knew that because gospel never gets the credit that it's due for, its impact on culture, period. And there had never been a gospel artist on the cover of vibe. That the gospel fans, the church folks, were going to go out and buy two and three issues. Smart. And they did. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches,

there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

Bell, connection is everything. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to? win. If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interest and they complain about the very thing to receive. It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury guy. company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. 12 seats. Those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground

going hard in the South now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. Aren't people more or less investing in the vibe brand? I'm going to buy a new vibe no matter what. Whoever's on the cover. Yeah.

That's not true. There's times that there's not true. There are issues of vibe that did not sell. There are issues. There's a thing like this. You have a subscriber base, right? That's your small money, but that's your loyalists. Me? They keep, they keep up paying that $13.99 a year, $12.99 a year.

Yeah, that's what's keeping your lights on. That's keeping the lights on. But the money, money is that the newsstand back when the newsstand mattered. because that's $253 a pop whether you're buying it at Bonds Safeway Key Food Barnes & Noble back in the day Walden Books or whatever

that's where the money was and that's an impulse buy and that's what I was judged on that's what any editor-in-chief really is judged on at the end of the day period end of story So to imply anything different when you're kind of lessen the work that you put

into figuring out who you was going to put on this cover in the content. No, you don't even know it was science. And the thing about me was not everybody took Billboard into consideration. I took Billboard into consideration because I had been R&B editor of Billboard. Did you replace Nelson when he left? No, it was Jenny McAdams that I replaced. Geneet McAdams replaced Nelson.

Yes, Janine is between us. So, yeah, now I was a person that always took Billboard into consideration because I worked at Billboard. And because even before I worked at Billboard, I studied Billboard like a maniac, which is why I got the job at Billboard. But it's like, no, I was the one that was like, if it's bubbling under, it deserves this. If it's doing this on the charts, if it's number eight with a bullet on blah, blah, then it deserves this. Now, people always wanted to argue with me, and we had the best arguments in the world about.

But I was one who always took Billboard into consideration. Not everybody's like that. Wow. I think, by way, can I just say this too? I think it's so crazy that I just learned. right now that y'all thought every issue of five sold when i got to vibe as no no no we didn't think that i thought that oh no i thought you were just asking the question i thought you were asking the question of me or like it was it the brand that sold i mean it's just like the circle i hang out with its

vibe and the source was like a religion and nah straight up yeah thank god for y'all but we were the ones keeping the lights on though we weren't the impulse buys right it's just like podcast it's just like music right like we come on we want we You want new podcast. Okay. So can I ask you this because I didn't know this? First of all, what is expected for vibe in terms of going platinum? Like, how many issues have to sell for your, whoever the higher ups are at the publishers to say, hey, they're doing well?

It depends on the year. It depends on the year. Because, you know, magazines, you know, magazines are pretty much gone now for all intents and purposes. There's not really a newsstand that you can depend on. But let's just say at the height of things, it's always a percentage. It's not an exact number. So at the height of vibe, you just never really want to be below 50%. 50,000?

Oh, percent. 50 percent. And you figure your circulation, like at my, the height of circulation for me, man, I got a vibe up to, I don't know, eight, nine hundred thousand. So you want to, you want to sell through at 50 plus percent. Now, that's high, but I have ego. That's B plus. The best selling issue of vibe in history is the master P issue, make them say,

wait, what? I hate to blow y'all up. No, I can't. That make it. I hate to. Because now the South is buying. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is.

You know, I would have put my publishing and my cribs. I could have sworn that that death row issue was the greatest selling issue of all time. The thing about the make them say, it was a, it was a perfect cover. Wow. It was everybody. It was Mia X. It was mystical. It was everybody.

No limit. And we had a tank in it. We had a tank. I remember. And everybody had on camel. And so basically, the whole cover was green and shades of black and white, but we did what's known as a fifth color in the magazine business, which means basically a fluorescent or a glitter.

And we made the orange fluorescent. That episode left off. I remember. It left off. And I'm not going to say how many issues pee bought, but because the world would never do. The world will never know, but it was huge. And you got to remember, too, Master P has a huge contingence of fans in the Bay Area, too, out from Richmond. That's where he started, yeah.

So he was all over, yeah. So it was, that's really the biggest selling issue. I would never say the lowest issue because it's people that we all know and love, but it would surprise you. I would never say. Come on, you got to. Y'all, y'all going to have to get that someplace else, man. It's 20 years ago. It's 20 years.

It feels like yesterday to me, though. I feel like I'm on my way to an editorial. you right now. Y'all ain't going to get me out here like this. Ah, damn it. Now I'm going to go. I literally have all my issues in the room. Now I'm going to go back to see it. If I text, you've got to verify it. I will. But I can't because it's like it's mean, man. And it doesn't necessarily sometimes even have to do with the person. It's timing.

It could be the photography. It could be anything. It just doesn't necessarily. It could be the truck was late. Oh, please tell me what it was. No, you're going to get it for me. No, and you talk about you fear me. You see how easy. I'm scary. I'm scary.

Like, I can't say that. That's so mean. What if I just said, yeah. It's not mean, spirit. It's facts and business. This particular MC has the lowest selling issue in the history of vibe. That's hardcore. It must be J-Z.

Yeah. It won't be, yeah. It's definitely not, Jay. I will say it from the South, though. Just to show you how things change. Is it somebody? Is it somebody who still has a career? Are they considered a legend still?

Do they have a career or do they just have a career? Do they have a career? Period. They have a career, but they don't necessarily have a career in rapping. Okay. All right, got it. Anyway, so I do want to know what was the first or at least national, well, you said that Rolling Stone was the very first time that your work appeared in?

A national magazine? I would say, no, that's not the case. I would say the first time I had a national story. It was in Spin Magazine. There was a column there called Dreaming America. Yep. That was my first national thing. And I always remember that I couldn't believe I was getting paid a dollar or word.

Was that standard or was that like? That was standard for mainstream. People don't even get that now. And it's like, I was, no, listen, you used to be able. to make a living as a writer, it's very difficult to do so now. Even in the Bay Area, I was getting 10, 15, 20 cent a word. If I wrote a 1,500 word piece, I was getting $150. But when, when, and Craig Marks, he's the, actually the music editor of the LA Times right now, Craig was music editor of Spend back then. And when he said it was a dollar a word and 800, 800 words, I just remember thinking.

So that's pretty much rent In Oakland back then And I felt like Back then And I felt like back then And I felt like I could stay in this I could stay in this But yeah I wrote I think my first one was about

YoYo Okay Yes Black Pearl forever Yeah I wrote about DJ Quick for spin Who's also a favorite still And then it was out of those spin clips and a couple of things I did for the Village Voice that brought me to the notice of Alan,

Light, and Anthony Day Curtis at Rolling Stone. And then I was only really R&B editor at Billboard for like six or eight months, something to outline and shine bright. But then vibe launched, and Alan had gone over there as music editor. And when he was promoted to editor-in-chief, because Jonathan Van Meter left, then Alan asked me to come over as music editor. And it was a wild two years in that job. I always thought Spin was the weird cousin to Vibe magazine.

I always thought they were weirdly related. Like they had some kind of similar ownership or something like that. I mean, at the beginning we didn't. But then like in the, I guess, late 90s, 2000s, yeah, we were owned by the same company and we were in the same building. What was the company? Vibe Ventures. Oh, so, okay, they owned their own. Vibe Ventures owned Vibe and Spin.

and Blaze at that time too. Ah, Blaze. Man, I forgot about Blaze. I remember that. What was their focus, y'all? What was their thing? The Blaze battle. It was mainly just primarily hip-hop, but I remember.

Blaz was like pre-complexed. Yes, it was. Really with good journalism, though. It was, it was. Jesse Washington was the editor-in-chief. I was the editorial director. Jesse Washington is actually at ESPNZN-defeated now. Okay.

Yeah, we had our illmatic rating moment with Blaze, like things fall apart, like got a perfect five rating there in the Jay-Z issue. Amir-be monitoring these reviews. He's about that. He's about that life. I'm not that way now, but, you know. It does my heart good, though. It does my heart good to know that somebody of your stature and talent and genius is paying attention like that because we really tried. Like, we weren't up there, like, fooling around. Like, we were about passion, but we were about rigor. We were about facts and we were about deep and strong opinions. We were about design, photography.

We're about fashion style, all of it. And so the fact that you, being you, were paying attention that heart, honestly, it does my heart good. And anybody that listens to this that used to work at Bob DeSource XXL, any of it, Rabshee, all of it. Honey. Honey. All of it. Oh, man, honey.

It matters. I mean, I could take it to ego trip. I could take it to one nut. work, I could take it to 4080. I could keep going. I can keep going. The fact that any of us that worked in those spaces

were being paid attention to, that our work was being monitored or enjoy or even, it matters a lot to us. Look. All right. So the deal is, I think in that prince issue, if you guys remember the Prince

vibe issue, the Prince vibe cover issue. Yes. There's a write-up for Zingalama Duni A lot. That single-handedly, like if you want to know the beginning of

Questlove's micromanaged era of like, I must write all the liner notes, I must know, I must do all the interviews, I must like no article ever scared me more. And the thing is, is that, you know,

now I live in an era where you know, I mean, You know, I read the New York Times now and just read like this year, everyone's celebrating the fact that New York Times gave like 11 Madison a two-star review, which is like, soccer or, you know, I mean, there's been like sort of like crazy reviews, like Miles Davis is on the corner for Downbeat Magazine. Like throughout history, you know, it's different now because in the internet,

I sort of feel like artists write for each other. Like, hey, check this out. You know, that sort of thing, like when they're really going to go. but to me when I read your Arrested Development Zingalama Duni feature To me that was like It was literally like watching the apocalypse now documentary Or

Amir Amir is also known for good hyperbolic Quotes No but it's it was It wasn't even You didn't even have to do anything You didn't It wasn't a take down from you your point of view. Like literally, speech was kind of sleep at the will and the entire band

decided they're going to do a mutiny in this article. And at that point, I realized like, oh, man, a career could be made or, or deaded in one fell swoop with just one article. It's a turning point for me. Okay, so long story, I guess long story short, it's like, I didn't even work at by by that point I was functioning as a freelance writer but I had a reputation in the business for being on point, on time, and thorough and more than that, I had written a piece

for a magazine that doesn't exist anymore and hasn't for years called Request magazine that you used to be able to get at Tower Records. Okay. Yes, I love a request. It's a great magazine. And if you count that as national which I don't always just because it was given away for free ad tower and you didn't pay for it but that was probably really my first national look was in request so I did a cover story on a rest of development when they launched okay okay so it was great man you're talking about Tennessee

you know what I mean you're talking about all of that I fell in love with them man I fell in love with them. They fell in love with me. It was a cover story. And this was back before I had been in the business long enough to realize it's not always wise to fall in love with groups and it's not always wise to allow groups to fall in love with you. I didn't know I was a child. I was in my early 20s, mid-20 something like that. I didn't know. You live and learn. So then when their second album is coming out, it was EMI. Am I right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the woman who was a publicist there was like, hey, you know, Vibe is doing this thing. Do you want to, you know, go back and talk to speech and everybody in the group?

Yes, definitely. I was freelancing too. It was just like, it sounds exciting. You'll send me to Atlanta. So I went down there, and my first conversation was with speech as it should be. And I have a lot of respect for him. But you could tell from the moment that I got in a car with him that things weren't okay with the good. with the group.

And it seemed like something he didn't want to get into detail about. But, you know, as a reporter, I have my instincts. I have my feelings. And so when I began to talk to the other members of the group. And you were allowed to? Yes, this was a different time, y'all. There was no internet. I will never let Kamal do an interview.

Oh, there's no evidence. Ain't no evidence. Kamal knows that shit. And what's so wild, though, it was like, at a certain point, I wasn't even going to people to talk to them. People were coming to me. Yeah. And listen, I remember that group so well, man. And it's heartbreaking to me because there's such a, like, the music isn't necessarily always so, like, wildly optimistic.

But it's just like, I've been around public enemy. are my guys, they're not the most optimistic group of brothers. You know what I mean? They're not. But the group of rest of development, they came back. They were taking us back to the south. Like, they were reminding us of our roots. Black Jordan.

Yes. Everything was like, you know, the blood and the dirt. Like, we was all in there, the red, like, we was all in it. Like, everybody from the northeast used to go back south in the summertime. Like, all of that feeling was there. But then, you know, I remember that DJ's name was Headliner, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. He set it off.

Dionne Ferris. I was going to ask you about Dion. Yeah, it was Dion. It's coming back. It's coming back. It's coming back. All right. Okay. And, you know, things just weren't going well. It's so hard.

And I know Questlap knows this. It's hard to keep a band together. Anybody watch the Metallica documentary knows that. And it's like, it's hard to keep a band together. Look at my lawsuits. You could ask, you could ask the Supremes. You could have anybody to come. I was like, it's hard to keep a band together.

a band together. Yes. And everybody was mad. And everybody's talking into the tape recorder. And they let her know. I went, if you remember Ersler Smith, who was my publicist at the time? At Set to Run. Set to Run.

No, no, no, no. She left Set the Run and started her own, I forget, her and Amy Mars had their own thing. And I came in the following Monday, like, shake it in my boots because I was just like, oh man, like they're done with, they're over with. And if they're that easy to get, like, what does that mean for us? No, but. And Ursula, like the amount of talking me off the ledge for like two days straight. Because I don't know, in my mind, I just felt like arrest development had reached the

mountain top. They reached the mountain top. They had. They had. Yeah. Yeah, that De La tribe, like a lot of those acts couldn't get to. But they didn't come up to. together though, right? Like, did they come up together like that, all of there?

Yeah, I mean, 91. I had what a lot of other groups like that didn't, which was speech had mad ambition. Everybody doesn't come with mad ambition. Some people just want to make a record and get it out there. Some other people have mad ambition and speech had that. It was a very difficult piece to write, a very difficult piece to publish. It was fact check and went through the lawyers and went through all of that. And it was very difficult to publish and guess the Publicist was wildly mad at me. Some in the group were wildly mad at me. Some in the group were so happy and grateful to me.

Some were very grateful. Some were grateful to me. But I just want to say, well, it just basically outlined that the group was not happy and was probably not going to stay together. Gotcha. Okay. Check it out. Fonte.

I don't know. Have you read Maurice White's autobiography? I have not yet. I mean, it's kind of the structure where, wait, we just recently did an interview with someone. Camille. I think it was Larry Blattman said, Larry Blatman said it was a democracy, what do you call it, dictatorship? Uh-huh.

Yeah. It was like a democracy dictatorship where I guess it's the idea of, hey, we're a community, where all these things but really I mean the decision falls on one person that person's speech in this particular case. Same about Bon Jovi

a lot of groups like that Earth went and fire too right like more than fire too oh yeah so that's what I was saying with the Earth Wind and Fire book no not even that I mean Marys White

I mean Philadelphia he went into heavy with oh okay Maris is sort of the estate of Earthwood and Fire we're just people for higher and and as to as

I'm certain that you know, Fonte, you know, as an artist about being blue collar, like often we get in this game because we, you know, we see these slow motion, hype William shots, and it's like, ah, we get our Bentley moment, and it never happens that way. And it's just that this time, Headliner was just mad about his money, mad about like the situations but it was very much like you know the rest of the band was explaining how unsatisfied they were with the situation that they were in but i can see how it could have an effect on you as it had an effect on a lot of people that piece because one it said that vibe was going to do stuff like that that's the first thing black people never seen something

to that level no because this is the thing because this is the thing because Because the media that is considered to be ours, right, Ebony Essence, you know, going back to the black newspapers that came out of Reconstruction all the way up through the 50s and through the Civil Rights Movement and everything else, like, the reason that these things came to be is because we were treated so unfairly by the mainstream media. Or we were just erased or not even considered, you know. You would talk about music in a certain tant. and you would just talk about all the white artists and never talk about the black artist.

Or you would talk about all the male artists and not talk about the women artists. So it's like, vibe existed in a space of like, well, of course, this is going to always be a place of celebration. But the thing that I always did learn from Quincy Jones is that vibe was to be a place of celebration and interrogation. That no one would trust us on the celebration if we didn't also do the interrogation. And so I felt supported by Quincy by Allen in doing that. And honestly, it was a very difficult piece for me to write, for the magazine to publish. And also it set the industry back on his heels a bit. That it's like, we love vibe, but you just don't know.

You still got to be good. No, yeah. Yeah. And so to some, that was great because it meant that we weren't like a pamphlet or we weren't just like it meant that we were more fluff. Yes. You got to remember one of the first pieces. And Bob, I think it's in the Tresh issue, right, the test issue in which Tretch was on the cover. And there's a big piece by the great Scott Poulson Bryan in that piece.

And the headline is one for all time about Sean Combs. the headline is this is not a puff piece right right so it's something so many meanings so many meanings and so we were always on that even with all the death row stuff it's like are you know people were like are you guys contributing to it it's like are we but are we

reporting as any other culture would report on its culture and is that also new and different for the black and multicultural audience of vibe to hear and see. So it was very hard. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus From $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

Bell, connection is everything. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests, and they complain about the very thing to receive.

It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. Twelve seats, those are moving south. So you Democrats, you don't wait to 20.

30, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the South now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. For most black women, at some point, you feel that protector moment where you're like, you know, do you have to fight that protector moment and go with more your journalistic mind? Or does that not even ever come into your head? There's this. And it's funny because I was like, I wonder if she writes in this. I haven't gotten to that point if you write about this and shine bright.

But I was like, you know that protection. moment where you go, this could maybe hurt this feeling, you know, so maybe I won't do that. Did you ever have that moment? I have that moment every day of my career. Okay. Okay. I could tell by looking at your face. I was like, am I saying something boring?

I don't know. Okay. Okay. Every day of my career, and especially as editor-in-chief of vibe, it's even different as being editor of Billboard. Talk about that. Why? It's a trade magazine.

It's all genres. I got to know about what's going on in country, classical, adult contemporary, bubbling under. I got to know about what's going on everywhere. What's going on with pop singles, pop albums. I got to know R&B this, R&B that. I got to know what's going on in Latin music. I got to know what's going on globally. Like I got to know what's going on everywhere and make decisions based on all of that.

But, you know, when you're at vibe, you're covering black culture for a black and multicultural audience. It's not even used to being covered all the time with rigor and passion. It's like, even like in history, if you look at Ebony, at the very beginnings of Ebony, it's like James Ball, one and everybody's in there. It's a different situation. But then, to me, due to pressures from the community, it just became more and more like you can always expect good and proper news from Ebony. Until that Cosby issue. Well. No, no, hats off to Kearna for that.

Yes. That's the first time that I've ever seen. And Karen is from what generation? The hip-hop generation. Yes, exactly. Yes. And so that's what I'm saying. It just, it's hard. You know, it's hard when I can think of even small things.

Like I remember I interviewed Wesley Snipes for the cover of Vibe. That's my first Vibe cover. Yo, I remember that issue. That's a great issue, man. My mom drove me to his house in Venice. He was going through it. And also that movie wasn't good. Which one was it?

It was demolition. The demolition man? The blonde hair. The blonde hair. I remember that. It was a hot mess. And the movie, the film was, but Wesley himself wasn't and it never has been. So to me, he's one of the more underrated. He's actors in the history of cinema. Like, he's so good.

I'm not saying he's made all the proper moves and all of that. But my thing is, how do you say that? but then like how do you say frame it in a way that's not how do you say that and that's the work for me that's the work and shine bright for me like how do I how do I talk about Whitney Houston's mom

sure you you handle that awesomely by the way oh thank you who to me is just like she's so important to the history of American public she literally trained Whitney Houston she literally sang behind Elvis Presley

She literally sang behind Bam Morrison, Jimmy Hendricks, everybody. And it's like she literally contributed to the vocal arrangements for all of this big pop. And she trained Whitney at the same time she just didn't accept her daughter for who she was. Yo, and can I just say on that note, it's so funny you say that because as we're going through all these different lenses and filters for people these days, when it comes to the music business, I find it harder and harder to apply those filters if you really want the true story about things. really want to talk to people. Like, if we really, we, I mean, we've had these moments where, you know, even talking to me and a mirror

and Jake, we'll talk about people and we'll be like, yes, they were significant. They are historical. These conversations should be had. However, but this little thing had happened. And so I'm so curious, Danielle, how you navigate that. Like, because even in a situation, like, I can't even say names because you feel guilty.

But no man who was doing business in the 60s, 70s, and 80s is fucking straightforward. has no shit with them, basically. There's no man. There's no man. So how do you like navigate that? That's just... Well, I don't think council culture was a thing then.

You know what I mean? Right. As much as it is now. Yeah, I guess that's why journalists get paid less and less. They can hardly write. Well, it's also because artists have so many other avenues in which to tell their story. It used to be the only place that you had to write.

No, they're going on IG Live, none. Yeah, you're just going IG Live. You can go right to your Twitter feed, your IG feed. And some of that, I have to say I am not mad at. Like, I miss. Even if it's to the detriment of your... Do I miss it? Yes.

Do I miss being like, you have to go through vibe. Essentially, you got to go through me and my cohort. Yeah. Right. Right. So do you miss that feeling of, Like, oh my God, yeah, this is, we're vibe. Yeah, of course.

But, you know, to everything there is a season, we were needed for that at that time. We were desperately needed. But I can just give you an example. So I'm doing this, I'm doing this, this picture me doing a talking head moment for a Michael Jackson documentary. Okay, thank you. Come on. Yes. And so, no, and not even to get into the complexities of Michael's situation.

but just to say this, just to talk about the internet part of it. So the person that's directing or asking me, the question says, don't you just find the internet to be totally overwhelming and ridiculous? Like, you can just put Michael Jackson's name into Google search bar, and then like 8 million pictures come back about Michael Jackson, 12 million stories, headlines, everything in the world is just so overwhelming and terrible. Isn't that just cheapening Michael's legacy? that said in the third.

And I was like, now actually I don't because see, I grew up a Michael Jackson fan and I couldn't find anything about Michael Jackson. When I'm 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 years old and all I wanted to know about

was Michael Jackson, if I didn't have Cynthia Horner's write-on magazine, what really would I have? Right. I said, I was insatiable. When you're 13-year-old as a fan, oh my God, I was insatiable.

and I couldn't find anything. And I told him, I said, so I actually feel flush, man, with joy that I can put Michael Jackson's name into a Google search and just see every million, even if the news is bad. Even if the news is ugly. Just having access to it. I would rather that than to have, like, to be searching and thirsty to know something about my favorite one. Yes. So that's why. Can I ask a question?

All right. I was going to ask you. what was the hardest issue for you to execute. However, I wanted to take a wild guess. How hard was that Michael Jackson issue to put together? What year?

What year was that? Was I there? 95. Michael Jackson was on the cover of Vibe magazine. Dressed very uncharacteristically. He was dressing, I think a Kadada had dressed him

and Tommy. Tommy Hilfiger. Wait, you don't remember this, Fonji? I don't remember. He had a can go on? got a kangal. I remember. By, Michael Jackson cover. I remember it.

I remember it. Wait a minute. Let me, let me take me into my memory. Whoever just looked it up, what are the cover lines on there? Read them. Michael makes history. The King of Pop strikes a pose. Easy Ease, final days, notorious BIG, smokers, smokes Cali into the Wu-Tang Clan with, oh, I can't read the name. Something.

Oh, well, Bones Malone. Duh. Bones Malone. That was 95. barely have any memory of that except for EasyE. Damn, that's a flex. That's a flex. Like, oh, Michael Jackson, I don't remember that shit. What do you remember about EasyE? What do you remember about the Easy interview?

This is Easy. Well, this is, oh, this is Post-EEE. He had died. Final days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what that was a, that's what I remember about that particular issue. Because 95, okay, so I'm music editor. I just remember that, well, one, I just remember that it was, you remember, I'm from the Bay Area. So I've been knowing about dealing with AIDS probably in a closer proximity than a lot of people.

It was very entwined in our lives. And so I don't know. The tragedy of that, man. And I will say this, I'm not even the biggest E-E fan, but just as a human being, man. It was just too much. And also the way hip-hop was dealing with it was crazy. that's what I really remember most about that, and I also remember just not liking the cover image

or the design, which is rare for me, which is rare because it doesn't really even look to me like a classic vibe cover, which we were very meticulous about on most issues. But you also got to believe, too, again, I don't know even if I was in those conversations, but I do know this. If Michael Jackson was involved,

then Michael Jackson had probably had final say on what the cover looked like. Because you understand too In that era Quincy Jones had a lot more to do with the day to day than he did by the time I became properly editor-in-chief.

I don't know. I just was always just something impression. It's like, okay, he started this magazine and I'll see y'all later. Oh, no. But he was day-to-day. No, he was not day-to-day, but he was like, if it had something to do with something that Quincy had something to do with,

then Mr. Jones was involved. Absolutely. I don't know if I talk about it and shine bright, but my first experience, so I did Kirk Franklin, and then let me not get my dates mixed up, but I feel like I was called to the phone and I was told that Quincy was on the phone with Joe Jackson

because Janet had an album coming out. And so we needed to get that together. And I was on the phone with Quincy. And they've known each other since the dawn of time. And I was the sitting editor-in-chief, and I was just like, why am I even on the call? Hello. Yaw.

And they were just, yeah, just hash and stuff out. And then I was like, they asked me like, who should the writer be? They asked, I think Joe asked. Quincy that. And then Quincy finally said, Dale, like, this is your mom. Like, speak up. Like, this is your area or whatever. Oh, the velvet roof cover. Yes. And I was like, well, you know, I think it should be me. And they were like, Joe was like, really? Why? And I said simple reasons. I said, because I saw her perform at the Circle Star Theater at San Carlos, California when I was

eight years old for my birthday so boom i probably had the longest relationship with her out of anybody here but y'all and then also we're both really pretty much the same age we're both really black california girls at the end of the day and i mean we could go through the catalog thus far we could go back to dream street if you want to we could do what you want to do and so that's when joe said would seem like you should be the person then wow i mean i probably my voice was a little bit more shaky back Cracky. Yeah. Let me not act like I was coming with all the, like the, all the full confidence.

But it's just when Quincy Jones shoots you to Rondo pass. It's like you better just act like Kevin Garnett. Yeah. Be prepared. Right. Yeah. So for Shine Bright, what was probably the most surprising revelation in constructing this?

And also, was there anyone that you had to leave on the side of the road that you wanted to include? The most crazy. thing to me about Shine Bright is just how much music comes out of segregated times. Oh my God. It's just, it just never would just cease to amaze me. And you keep thinking that as the decades go by that it's going to be different and then it just isn't.

I mean, even if it's like somebody from younger than me who got bust, you know what I mean? And from a segregated situation, then I think people don't just talk about that. enough. Like everyone just acts like, we're just all out here going to school together and, you know, being friends together and out of that comes multi, out of that multicultural stew comes this amazing thing called pop. Well, no. Well, absolutely not. So that was, the fact that it just kept coming up and I was just got to be very nosy about it too. I wanted to know the details of and I'm like, so you're on the back of the bus. What's going on? Yeah, when you were talking to the Dixie At one time, it seemed like one of the sisters was like, okay, Danielle, let me just answer all your questions.

They were like, serious? No, but they got, they really, at first they were like mad at me and then they really had to say, you really don't know, though. Because the fact that you dropped after that was something that I didn't know. You said the thing about the screen. The screen. Yeah. I thought it was a metaphor.

I didn't know. It was a real screen. Like an actual real hard screen. With peg holes. Like it had pegs on it. And then there were holes in the back. of each seat and you could just move it and just put the screen up

in the pegs. And they made the, and they made, and they made the black person do it. So basically, there's, there's a part in telling the Dixie Cup story, which their single was going to the chapel. Big single. Number one single. Right. So there, I

guess you could say the real first reign of, of I don't want to see some corny light black girl, ma. No. Yeah, I want to be born. I mean, they bumped, they bump, let me do. Like they bump and let me do out of number one. The Dixie Cups is going to the chapel. Yes.

You know, they're the first black group to hit number one. And so she starts with them. And they're telling a story about just segregation and busing and whatnot. And the fact that customers and bus riders would often tell, and I'm saying tell very lightly, black people to move to the back of the bus. And they would put a. I guess there is a disposable screen that you can put up to divide.

A movable screen. A movable screen to divide. It should have been at the same regulated place. I always thought that's no, okay, so this is the thing. That is what I thought. I always thought, and this is how you know that segregation never really gets discussed in detail. And I am committed always to not talking about black people

or black women in summary, but in detail. Because this is my thing. I always imagined that the bus was kind of split into like two, like into thirds. And that the white people had the first two thirds. And then the black people had the area like from the back door of the bus on. Right, right. But see, no, this is what's crazy. They moved the goalpost essentially.

The more white people that got on, the smaller the black area would get because this screen was moving. And I asked Rosalie Hawkins and Barbara Hawkins I was like So when Would it be the driver Or the people And she said whichever

And then I said Would they ask you nicely Or were they mean? Or were they mean? Like in New Orleans Louisiana And I told her I said to her I know I'm asking stupid questions

But I literally don't know And she said well then I will tell you you the way they asked depended on the way they woke up that morning. And I said, we don't know how segregation really was functioning. It wasn't separate but equal. It was really going to the museum only on Tuesday mornings when black people were allowed and stuff. Like it was really, there's a thing.

I write about my grandmother telling me one time, my God, and we all know about these black nights. I'm here. You know, we do. The way my grandmother was just like, oh my God, you know how conceited you are as a girl when you're like 19 or 20 and you think you're cute? And you're really in the mirror and you really get that mascara right. This is before lashes. And you're really, the pre-lash era. And you're really, with your mabelin getting right, and your grandmother's irritating you because your top is too tight and your skirt is too short. So my grandmother is really giving me that look like, so where are we going? And I was like, I'm going to the spot.

Grandma is like Thursday nights or Tuesday nights or whatever it was. And she was like, oh, okay, where is it? I said, Grandma, it's just at this cool spot, like all the black people in Oakland get together. Like, it's really weird. It's organic. It's just like we all just hang out there. And it's just so cool. It's like a lounge and drinks.

It's amazing. She said, okay, where is it? And I told her the place, she said, oh, I know that place. Because my grandma that's born and raised in Oakland. I said, Grandma, you could not know the place. Like, you're 100. I'm 20. Like, stop, Grandma. I love you, but no. And she said, ma'am, listen, we used to go to that place.

And if it wasn't that place, it was owned by the same people. And the thing is, we went there because that was the only night that we were allowed to go to that club. It wasn't, it was like Tuesday nights. So we all had to get up to go to work in the morning on Wednesday. So we just had to go on Tuesday and on Saturday and Sunday and Friday or on Friday and Saturday when, when that's a normal time for people to party was only white people that were allowed in there. So that's why she's like, yes, that's why it's organic. Panically on a Tuesday. That is, that is black night.

And so my grandma, I was like, I couldn't even have a. good time at the set anymore. I'm like, I'm living. What? You blew my mind with that because I was like, that's nationwide. There's always a black night. It's always on a weeknight. Black night is always on a week night.

You're right about that. And yeah, when. I love writing about, I love writing about, like I said, specifics. And I like writing about culture. And I like writing about something, Ann Powers, who's ahead of music. NPR, Anne was music editor at her SF Weekly and I became music editor of SF Week, San Francisco weekly right after Ann. Anne really had held me into that job. And something that Anne taught me was, this is back in the 991, 1992. She said no one's writing about, people are writing about

hip-hop as a music. No one's writing about the scene and what the scene is like. And I was, I was enraptured by that, and I still am. I still am. I take notes in my head on a pad or on my notes app. When I'm out, just because the scene matters, it matters. It matters. It's culture. And that Tuesday night thing is the scene. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done, the cucumbers? Get Bell purefiber internet with craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell. com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is do you want to win?

If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing to receive. It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network.

12 seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the south now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. So in your history, what will you say is your three definitive pieces of work? One of the most important pieces to me and one that continually gets good notice from people is the piece that I wrote as the forward to the collection of essays about Tupac Chacore

that I put together in a book called Tupac Chacore. And you can find it at just Google New York Times, Daniel Smith, Tupac Chacore. And it's about a 4,500 word piece that basically just takes its career and life into consideration. And so that is one for me. The second one is from much later in my career. Six years ago, I think now I wrote a piece for ESPN, the magazine, about Whitney Houston singing the national anthem at Super Bowl. I just really felt like, and my editor really felt like,

and in fairness, ESPN really felt like it hadn't really been written about at the intersection of culture, sport, and just like American history. I put so much work into that Whitney Houston piece, and it paid off. And won awards, like, it's really one of my face. favorite piece is probably that I ever wrote. And, you know, I think I'm very smart in that piece. Can you give a summary of that? Because I'm curious. It's just very about Whitney Houston putting the entire country on her back because war had just been declared. This was in the pre-security era. And Super Bowl was a soft target. So I wrote about everything. I wrote about what was going on with

the war. I wrote about what was going on with the NFL commissioner. I wrote about her pre-recording the song. I wrote about the, I covered her performance in a second by second's way. I covered every single seconds of her performance. And that's what I wanted for my conclusion and that's what we had. And I just talk about her at the end, just, you know, with the, what do they call it, the fighter pilots or whatever, the jet planes or whatever, the military planes going over her head. And really, to me, I was trying to say how inappropriate it is. But the way she sings free is so important to me, how she owned

that word in the Star-Spangled Banner. So many singers run from that word, or they shorten that lyric, and Whitney put a whole curly cue at the end of it. She went up higher than she even normally goes.

She went up into Mariah territory at that moment. She stood there in an at-ease-like kind of stance. she was in a sweatsuit when do you see Winnie Houston in a sweatsuit right she had a headband and some Nike

Cortez's I was like who is that lady To me you're 95 Kells piece Which See that's blocked So

I blocked But you're like the one that literally broke the story Yes we did It was a team effort But we did yes Okay I didn't know it's a team effort The team effort.

The team effort comes in. I'm on the road with Dana Lixonberg. We're chasing him down. But the reporting of Dana Lixonberg is a photographer that shot him for the cover. The cover it is, and I'm happy you brought that up, honestly, because... Thank you. Because really the headline is for all the time, the sex, the soul, the sales, and the scandalous marriage to teenage superstar Leah. And the thing that made it what it was was the fact that Dana got the shot, I got the story.

story and Robert was so awful that day and we didn't even know what we didn't know at that time and so me and Dana are on the road this is Allison and me and Dana Lixonberg on the road Dana shot so many great shots of Loh Kim, Tupac Shakur but so our goal is we got to get the story and we need him to speak and also I got a report I got to find his teacher, I got to find. You know, I got to interview all types of people. He, he, his bodyguard let me in. We were at the, what was it, what was it called the arena in Philly back then? The Spectrum. The spectrum. So I'm in the bowels of the spectrum. It wasn't fuzzy, but it was another radio DJ that when I saw him, he was, it wasn't fuzzy, but it was

somebody that reminds me of fuzzy. And they were standing on stage in soundtrack that we had snuck into. And I told him my situation, And he was like, you can have my backstage fast. I never, like, I don't mean. That was Cosmic Kim. I can't remember. Yes, right? And I was like, man, you're making my whole life.

You were doing the story and you weren't officially traveling with the camp. Not at all. We got on Amtrak from New York to to Philly. And they weren't super welcoming. No, there were literally signs up backstage at the spectrum that said, if you see anybody from vibe here escort them off the premises wow wow and so we were like wow what it just felt like public enemy number one because we had a story on the this was my thing when I was at vibe music editor editor

and chief if you said you were going to do it I'm holding you to your word like I really believed that and it was very childish almost the way I would really hold on to that like my thing was very much like you promised and I know a person could be like your word is your word but I know somebody can easily be like my fingers are crossed when I said it like that's how

but that's how serious I was about it though I was just very like no they promised so they're going to be held to that and so Jive and Mr. Kelly had promised we were doing this cover story and then because the Aliyah stuff broke

then they said no so my thing is no then we're going to find you and we are going to get the story. I'm going to come to Philly and I'm going to figure something out. If I have to interview everybody in Philly, how do you feel about this concert in this situation? I'm going to do it. If Dana has to shoot you with a telephoto lens from the back of the stadium, then that's what we're going to do.

But the thing is he let us in because of Dana. Dana's beautiful woman, white woman from South Africa and very just low key with it, very, very uh not like giving you set not very not giving you sexy but just giving you like frankly you know what's yeah disarming disarming so so robert said she could come in that's fucked up because you to the dressing world right all right listen listen i appreciate that that's all right but listen so then dana said because we were really gang gang dana said okay but i'm not coming in without daniel Damn. Wow.

So then Robert said, if you, because he knew I was. I had covered him before. I had been in London with him, all types of stuff on junkets, as people used to do back in those days. So he said, you can come in, but you can't write anything down. He said with a pen. Okay. Okay.

But see, I had a pencil. So it's like a man, listen, it was so. crazy. I can't even tell you how crazy that was. But what I'm saying why I was such a team effort, aside from the fact that I had Allen advising me that Dana had George Pitts, the photo director, advising her because we didn't know what to do. Also, you guys got to remember, we were kids. I was 28. I was a child. I mean, I was young in the game, but was just on it. And so while Alan was advising me and George Pitts, who's gone now, God bless the dead, was advising Dana.

Then Carter Harris and Rob Kenner and the whole vibe team was back there trying to find a mayor certificate. That was the goal that was set and we refused not to meet that challenge. Wow, how do you do that? How about saying, how do you do that in 95? Let me tell you something. It was work. And we had contacts. We were reporters.

We knew people who knew people who knew people. I mean, we were the ones that reported the fact that how Alia climbed out of the window and got with the bodyguards and they got on a private plane down to Florida. Like, this is because we know people who know people. Yes. You guys had to be Google. We had to be. And so Carter,

them found a marriage certificate and we ran it. And that's also another one of those to go back. So what you were talking about with the rest of development. That was another time when people said, oh, vibe is serious. Because you got to understand, I remember to see one of the higher upset vibe calling me either on that issue or the next time we put him on the cover when we had even more evidence about his doings. I remember just putting it on speaker and just allowing people to walk into my office.

hearing that man call me every type of B-I-T-C-H-L-L-L-L-L-H-O-R-E, Vibe, V-B-B-B-B-B-E, V-B-B-B-B-E, I was leading... Who is this? This is, like, someone very high up at Jive Records. Does he still have a job? Does he still have a job? Yes, he does. So I'm just saying, and then I remember, too, that Robert was saying he was going to sue Vive.

He was going on, I guess it was Hot 97. saying that. And I went on the radio because they were like, well, do you want to respond? This is how the internet used to work in the pre-internet era. And I was like, I'll take that date. And I went up there and they were like, well, are you concerned that you guys are going to get sued? And Robert Kelly said he's going to put vibe out of business. And I said, what was in true, I used to feel so confident in our, which people don't have anymore in journalism. I used to feel confident in our reporting. I used to feel confident in our fact-checking, and I used to feel confident in the fact

that every single solitary page of Bob magazine went by lawyers before it went to press every single month that I was ever working there as music editor or editor-in-chief. So my thing was I was able to say on the radio, I think that he's just like profiling. As we used to say in Oakland, he's just side-busting, because if he wanted to sue, then he would. But he would have to prove one that we were wrong and two that we had malicious intent and we have neither.

So when you run that piece about, you know, him doing all the abuse and just all the fuck shit, how do you then reconcile when it's time to review his next album? So I was there for two stories, two cover stories of R. Kelly. And I don't, I mean, the short answer is I don't know what we actually do. did, I would have to look at the timeline. But if I had to guess, I would say that the discussion went like this, and this is purely me guessing. The record is coming out. He hasn't been convicted of anything. And so we have to cover it. I'm not saying that that is what happened, but just knowing how things tended to happen when I was there, that sounds like the way a conversation might have

gone. Do you think that's how it should in 2022 with all the lenses? Is that how the conversations should still go? I think once a person is convicted of something, then the conversation changes. Because a thing too, particular to the black community is this. There's so many times when black people are accused of things that they did not do. There's so many times in history where people are, Black people was getting canceled before canceling was a word because of things that they did.

I mean, things that they didn't do. And so we also had to walk a very fine line of like, well, what do we know? What is legally, I remember there was a whole thing at Vibe that happens at all places of reputable places of journalism, is that you can't just go around saying that someone was murdered before. there is a conviction to that point. You have to say that they were killed. Killed, yeah. Murder is a legal term.

It's a legal term. And so these are... So you would have to say Tupac is killed? You couldn't say that it was a murder. You could not until... Well, I'm being hypothetical when I asked... Yes, but yes. Yes.

And I do believe if you go back, you will see that. I remember that being struck out of many a piece. that he was not murdered until someone had been convicted of having murdered him. Of the murder. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah.

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the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic

interest and they complain about the very thing to receive. It's raw. I knew that The issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. Twelve seats, those are moving south.

So you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030. you better be hitting the ground going hard in the South now and download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts In your I guess in your tenure there Who were some of the writers that you helped usher into the game? People that kind of started off as interns who are now like...

Oh man, listen. Look at your phone, look at your phone. I know. But let me just say this. I don't know who all I ushered in, but I do know that I've worked with some amazing people. I mean, when I got there, you know, Alan and Jonathan Van Meter had already hired people like Joan Morgan, who's Dr. Joe Morgan now. Scott Poulson-Bryan, who's Dr. Scott Pulsin-Bryant now. Wow.

People like that. Okay. And then when I got there, I mean, Karen Reney Good, Mary. Marrable. I was going to say Karen Good was just starting out, like writing record reviews. She was. You gave her baduism as a lead of view. Yes, I did.

I mean, Karen and I are girlfriends. Karen was in my wedding. Like that's how, you know, we're girlfriends like that. So obviously Karen, Good Marable, who writes a lot now. So much beautiful stuff for the Oxford American. But also Sasha Jenkins, Jeff Mal. Gave Zipeda, her start, I think. Yeah, I always got to be careful.

careful talking about who I get a start to. Right. Okay, not their start. Yes, but no, Raquel Cepeda definitely is a genius and she wrote for a vibe when I was there. And also that's, I met Elliot Wilson, my husband. And then I signed him his first vibe record review also. Oh. So. What was his first five record review?

You remember? No, but he does. But there was way before we started date. I was actually married. Elliot's my second husband in case people don't know. No, really didn't. How long was your first? Short and sweet.

Nice. How old were you? I got married at like 22. Oh, very well, yeah, that was short and sweet. Yeah. Is it hard when, well, I mean, at one point both of you were editor and chiefs of competing. We were. So because you guys were married and your editor-in-chief of competing, not Hatfield-McCoy level of competition.

It was. Yeah, so how does that work? Like, how do you find love? You got for your couple, yeah. What separation of church and state when both of you are fishing for like the same story? Well, we had a history of it already. Elliot went to become, when we were back when we were just colleagues, Elliot stopped writing for Vibe and he went on to become music editor of the source.

Right. So I was feeling competitive at that time before we ever were dating. So, but I had to respect the skill set. Sounds like that's one of y'all love languages. Yeah. And then when I was in grad school, by this time he was editor-in-chief of XXL, and this was around the time when we started dating, I had to respect it.

Like, that's when he put Afini on the cover, and that was just such a courageous moment. Like, I could only, I wasn't even, like, we weren't even in each other's phones during that. I didn't even know if we had phones back then. But I just remember saying to people, like, I know he had to fight to get that done. I know what that fight must have been like, and I respected it. So then when we got married, I was in grad school still.

And it's like a nine, ten months after we were married where I went back to a vibe. And we went into it really very willy-nilly. We thought it was going to be very easy to manage the situation. And after our first issues, I don't know people know my husband, but he's not known for like his calm. And, um, man, listen. And, um, it's such a yellow nigger. He's such a sweetheart, but he's just not really known for, you know, taking things lightly. He's a very passionate individual.

So. You calmed him down. I will say the Elliott now is, is way more calm. And I actually credit that. used. Because just his nerdy ego trip like days of, yeah. Yeah, those are my guys though, all of them

to a one. But it's like, but, but no, so we really after the first issue, it just was bad like the way things went down. Yeah. And also you have to understand that we had staffs of people that Ellie and a whole staff of people that already believed in him. and I was a brand new second time editor-in-chief of Vibe that wanted a staff to believe in me.

So we had to establish some, as we called them back then, some rules and regulations and some tires and conditions. Come on now, you got to give us a couple. Yes, sir. I got to know. Well, I mean, if I'm honest, the main one was just that you could not discuss in any way at home anything that was going on with the issue at work. you could say somebody was getting on your nerves or I don't know why they don't have Coca-Cola's in the refrigerator at work but you couldn't come home and say like I'm really trying to get this covered with A, B, or C, no.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Let me ask only because, again, like you and him are to me the most courageous power couple of journalism. Only because both of you had your feet in the fire again at a time. time in which, and I, I'm using more hyperbole when I say dangerous. I'll say more like exciting times, but I'll also say serious times. Very serious. Like you, you were definitely around during like the, what they would call the danger era of

the east and westing. But, you know, for also him, as, as a wife, were you concerned about his situation at the source? because he too was sort of in a weird pickled situation. The Benzino era. Yeah. I mean, he was at XXL at that time, but yeah. Right.

And like, was there just any just general worry for safety coming for your end? Like, okay, don't, don't write that op-ed because you know good and well that this is going to, or for you, it's just like church and state, we're never talking about what our work is and bringing it into the home. When Elliot was going through the most terrible stuff, we were not dating. We weren't. Okay.

Yeah, we weren't. We started dating at the, I think, the end of 03, but let me not put too final point on it because Elliot was away in the streets at the time when we were dating. So just for our listeners, Elliot was at XXL right during the height of,

I guess, the Eminem versus Benzino Awards. Yeah, that's a fit. Yeah, right? And it would get very serious. Very serious. As I said, at that time when he was going through the very worst of it, we weren't dating. I knew him as a colleague. And, you know, there's a certain scene of writers and such in New York at that time,

black writers and stuff. We all kind of knew each other, would see each other out and that kind of thing. And I always knew Elliot. Like I said, he used to write for me when I was music editor at Vibe. And he was always supportive of me. I remember when my book came out in 03, my first novel, he came into, because he was bawling, he came into Barnes & Noble and brought like 15 books, and he was just, you know, he was that type of dude. But even from afar and through my friends on the scene and people who were publicists and other writers,

I mean, they would say that Elliot was going through it. You know, people that saw him, I mean, these are his stories to tell, but people that saw him more than I did. and I also know just now being his wife for these many years you know the health issues and stuff that came out of that era like it's um you know stuff that he still manages to this day so I mean he's a brave dude though but none of us are like superhuman you know and there was some real scary stuff that we all went through some of it is in Shine Bright where just

you know threats were made and it's like I remember my mom coming to see me in New York from California. She really did, but she did a couple of times. And she's at the office. And I was just going about the business of my day. And then she said, like, so is this how it always is? And I was like, what? And she was like, just the way you're, it was a different era. She's like, just the way you're talking to people. I said, how am I talking to people? She's like, just cursing and stuff. And I was like, am I cursing? You just like, yes, you're cursing a lot on the phone to people.

And I was like, that's because people are trying to back out of the things that they said they were going to do. That's because of this. That's because of that. And my mother said, okay, but like, are you running the staff or are you running the gang? Like, what's going on? But see, the thing is, yeah, but see, because the thing is, we, it was, you, you began.

It's a good question. I mean, I was only there for about five more months. Because we were scared. And also, you guys understand how invested we. were in vibe success, how much responsibility we felt to the community and to ourselves and and just the music into hip hop culture. Like we were obsessed. There's not a better word for it. I would say this about just most everybody on the staff down to the receptionists. It had to be a lot of pressure because you're top of that food chain.

Yeah. And people were, people were attacking us physically. People were, getting guns pulled on them in the studio over record reviews and stuff. And so it's like, yeah. Would you change anything? I would change everything up here. No, I don't believe it. Not everything, but you know what? If I just, as I said, we were all, we were young, man.

I get it. Think about your, think about your, think about, I call them my baby cousins and stuff. Like, I think about my baby cousins that are like 25. years old right now. They come over and ask me the most ridiculous stuff. And I'm like, aren't you grown? And they're like, no. And I'm like, I was a whole like, I thought that was. Right. I was a whole R&B editor billboarded that at your age, man. Like, what? Like I was at, I was, I was, I was editing Havelock Nelson when I was like 25. Yeah. That's not fair to put that. Now, their age, not their age like a 24, you know, in 95 and a 24 and a 24 in 22 or two completely different. It's very different. It's very different. I'm not saying I wasn't mature,

but I'm just saying I was still, I didn't have a lot of it. I was learning how to manage on the job. And then all of a sudden you tell me, you come into my office and say, I was at the studio and such and such, didn't like the review. And I told them I was, I could, I didn't know what to say to that. And then they just pulled out a gun. Now, I'm, I'm not going to act like I'm not from East Oakland because I am. Mm-hmm. That's a loaded statement. Well, it's loaded from a native.

Yeah. But that still shouldn't be normalized. It's not normalized, but in the late 1980s, in Oakland, in East Oakland in particular, but in West Oakland, too. In your office, and I'm talking about when we're doing a story. No, no, no, but I'm saying that, you know, and you just kind of kind of had to be about it in East Oakland. And so did I bring some of that being about it to the offices of I? I probably did. I probably did.

When you are running a ship like that, is there pressure that you felt that your male contemporaries wouldn't have had to have gone through? Yes. Wait, wait, wait, time out. Is it hip-hop. Are you fucking kidding? These motherfuckers don't even talk about. No, but time out. Was Alan and Jonathan a screamer?

Were they screamers? Not at all. Not at all. I almost think Alan's like not passive-aggressive, but like... No, Alan's just a very soft-spoken dude. Right. That's what I'm saying. Also, people deal with white men differently than they deal with black women.

All the time. All the time. And as much as I'm saying that, you know, I brought some of my East Oakland Ness to the editor-in-chief's chair, I'm also sitting front row in Milan at, you know, the Jill Sanders. show and things like that and trying to give all of that energy before I even knew how to give that kind of energy. But if you're asking me, was it hard because I was a black woman? Absolutely.

And this is the thing, I'm not guessing because I know the men that ran other magazines and that ran vibe after me. And I know what their experiences were like as compared to my experiences. I know how much money they made as compared to how much money I made. I know all of these things. Also just because I'm nosy and I'm a reporter. So it's like, was it harder for me? Yes.

Were there times when it was easier for me? Maybe, but not enough. It didn't balance out the hardship. No. As an artist, I wanted to study who the gatekeepers of reviews and words were. when at the well I'm still making records but the time when I was making product but for you

do you have hope for what counts for journalism today because I will say that there's like a level of thoroughness that is kind of lost and there's also just technique and I'm not saying that it's

it's a lost art like there's definitely some writers that I feel like are super smart and super insightful but for the most part, I think now it's like the Wild Wild West where just, you know, there's, there's just people that aren't that knowledgeable about their subjects. They run on Wikipedia real quick or run to your old articles and add to it. Do you feel like your, your, your, your era of the NBA or the new era of the NBA is, can hold a candle to your era of it?

It's harder, but yes, I do think they can. And for the most part, if there's differences in quality, it's not the fault of the writer. It's also what they have to write about? No, it's the fact that there's no budgets for anything. There's no, if you're writing right now for 20 cents a word, how much are you putting into it? I was writing for 20 cents a word when I was in my early 20s. I turn stuff down now because I'm just like, it's just not worth it for me to do that because I'm not even contributing to my household well on what you're trying to pay me.

And so then you have kids who aren't getting fact-checked. You have kids that aren't, not even kids, but adults who aren't being edited by people that no one understand the culture and who they themselves are being paid well enough to put their heart and soul into the work. You have people that are only doing email interviews because no one wants to pay. somebody's cab fare across town, let alone a plane trip. I remember when I sent Michael Gonzalez, another great writer from the vibe era. Shout out to Michael Gonzalez.

Gonzo Mike at Twitter. It's like, I remember Barry White had an album coming out. That was the practice what you preach album. And they were like, well, I wanted this story. I just wanted the story. I wanted this story. I think I was music editor at the time. And they were like, well, we can't do it.

We can't do it. But if you want to send somebody to Brussels right now, then we can do it. I went to my boss, whoever it was at the time, and told him the situation, they said, well, buy him a ticket to Brussels. And they went, and it's a great, great story from Michael. And the headline is Blackberry Jam. And it's an amazing story, an amazing photographs. And it's like, where is that going to happen? Now, that's not the fault of the writer.

That's the thing that's heartbreaking to me. one of the great things about me going to ESPN was because ESPN has budget. As I said, they sent me to Qatar to do Simone Biles. When is that happening? They can afford to take care of people like Justin Tensi, like David Dennis, like Soraya, like La Nite. Yeah, like, you know, like so that people can make a living and have a life.

There's not even that many places right now where you can go where that's okay. So when I say I have hope, I do believe that the pendulum is going. going to swing back, but it's going to take some foot stomping and maybe even some swinging on the part of the journalists themselves. That's when I say, yes, like, I don't know what a general strike is called for. I don't know, but something got to give. Okay. Are you going to write any more fictional novels? Whether, yes, I love fiction and my MFA is in fiction. I may. God willing, and life is long, I may, but I will admit that the things that I'm thinking, about with regard to fiction now would probably be more scripts, maybe the novels.

Yeah, it's what I'm into right now and thinking about how to maybe even look at my first two novels and how those things might turn into things that exist in other spaces, whether that's audio, whether that's, you know, filmic or whatever. So those are the kind of things that I'm thinking about a lot, trying to learn about taking a page out of your book, sir, just trying to look at what can happen. Pivot! Yeah, what can happen in documentary spaces and things like that. I'm actually, you know, I guess by the time this airs, we'll already made an announcement.

Like, I'm a Frady Cat in terms of I never make an announcement until the project is finished. Okay. And then it comes. But probably the biggest secret I've been keeping under my hat for the last two years is I, too have written a fictional book. And I will assume that this will come out by next week. Next week. I've been a junkie of time travel. And one of my favorite writers,

a gentleman named S.A. Cosby, who he's written many New York Times bestseller. So he and I sort of came friends over the pandemic. And I guess, you know, taking a break from doing the movie, I would DJ. But then taking a break from DJing, I would journal and wrote my other music book. But then my fourth pivot was I always wanted to write kind of the books that I didn't get to read as a kid.

And are those books like black people traveling in time? Or is that what it is? Yeah, it's two kids. It's middle school books. So it's two kids that are. It's a WIO novel. Okay. Yeah, it's two kids that are.

I love to hear it. I love to hear it. Yeah, a grown up a boy. They're both 14 and 15. And the girl, she's like a science wizard. And she invents a time, travel device. And he gets the bright idea to try to save one of his groups that he admired from breaking up and the butterfly effect of that. Yeah.

Of that. Anyway. Oh, this sounds really good. That's like I remember I used to read all those Madeline Lingo books, like Wrinkle in Time and all that. Wrangling time. All the time those folks were white in the book. I love the books, but I didn't see myself in them. Yeah.

I kept that one under under wraps only because, like, Again, I have like nine projects on the on on the back burner and maybe only four of them will actually make it to fruition. And the other five sort of fall at the wayside. Then I got to figure out what to do with it. But this sounds really exciting. It sounds so excited. Thank you. I'm excited.

I want to ask you, Dan, before we break up. So were you editor and vibe? Was this like 98, 99? Were you still there at that time? I was there from 97 and 99. 9799. Okay. There was a review.

It was the lead review for the Revolution's record review section. That was a four heroes, two pages album. I don't know if you even remember this. But it was the lead review, and that was just, if you were there, I just want to just thank you for that. Man, I was the craziest leave review ever. Who wrote it? Ever.

God, don't get me the line. Don't get me the line I'll have to look it up I don't recall it off the rip But I wish I did Because you guys are making me feel like I should go back And find it Yeah that review just opened me

I mean I never would have found that album Had I not saw that And that just opened me up That's how you heard about Yeah Yeah that was my first time ever hearing I reading that review That's crazy

I mean you've been living in London for years So it was whatever to you But no They're the reason why I did the German bass thing At the end of you got Yeah when four hero got that lead review

even I was like oh god damn like finally did Greg Tate read I bet you any money and money it was probably great I bet you it sounds like it that's one of the honors of my life too is is editing Greg but at that time I was editor-in-chief so I wouldn't have been editing him one-on-one but the way it used to work at vibe was

the writer filed to their editor and then that piece then would go from they go back and forth with it and then that would go to what was called the top editor, which was the senior editor, and then the senior editor would get it right, and then it would go on page, and usually then the editor-in-chief would read it at that point, and then it would go from approval by the editor-in-chief to fact-checking to make sure every fact was correct, and then after fact-checking, it would go to copy-editing to make sure

every period in comment, everything was in the right place, and then at that time it would go to photo, and then after, it would go to photo and design, and then at that point it would go to production to be made into a real page. And that's when I say, when you talk about budgets, you're talking about paying every single person at every single stage. And that just doesn't exist anymore. It just hit me. I forgot.

I believe if you were there in 90, were you there in 99? A part of it. You guys actually let me write my own vibe feature. That's not right. That sounds right. Oh, when you were naked, the naked, John. No, not to that. That was such a moment.

Like, it would be like, Chris Rock is guest editing. I think that was almost my last. That was cool too. Yeah, that was, I feel like that was my second to last issue. And then maybe there was the J cover where he has his hands in front of him like this. Right. In a white suit.

But that was kind of the end of my first editor-in-chief era. The J-Lo, the very first J-Lo cover in 99. That was... I don't think I was there for that, though. You guys didn't send a writer over, so literally I just had to diary. touring Europe and that sounds like an amazing thing though yeah no it's definitely one of the

probably the second major features I wrote like I enjoyed it all right my last question because you are from Oakland I am but to be of age in Oakland at the time when that first generation of hip hop was coming out are there any

notable like for you moments of growing up in Oakland that you can share as far as like the culture of it in terms of shows that you saw when you were younger, that sort of thing. Because it's such a musical town, then. I mean, I don't know if I have how many Oakland tales I have.

I can just tell you that. Your best one. What do I have? I mean, I told you, I saw the Jackson 5 nearby in San Carlos at the Circle Star Theater. And it's like, I don't know, like, let's just pass by the childhood stuff and get back to me moving to the Bay Area

a college student at UC Berkeley. So now you have to understand, too, that the Bay Area is a huge touring stock. I mean, you know this. And so I'm seeing anybody from a flock of seagos to Frankie, Beverly and Mace, to Ziggy Marley, I'm seeing all of that. And then when I decide I'm really going to become a writer, then it's like MC Hammer's blowing up, invokes blown up, two shorts blowing up, Tony, Tony, Tony's blowing up. And these are just the folks that invoke, the Timex Social Club.

These are just the folks that got famous. We're not even talking about Paris is blown out. We're not even talking about Kate Cloud and the crew. You know what I'm saying? We're not talking about MC. We're not talking about what about conscious daughters. Conscious daughters. Yeah, don't forget about the co.

Cauts and the crew was right there. Like we were all coming up together. And then when the tour happened, the tour that I was out a lot on, the public enemy tour with Heavy D. and the boys, Queen Latif in the safaris. River for Black Planet Tour with Digital Underground had those masks on. Yes. One of the best hip-hop tours in history

and kid and play. Depending on the day, it would be MCB. Depending on the day, it would be Luke Skywalker, two live group. Depending on the place, it would be cervix a lot. Trouble T. Roy died on that tour. Just like those, Tupac was on that tour,

dancing background for digital. Those moments and the way that Oakland hip-hop coalesce. Obviously, Chuck D. I don't even know how I can explain it. It's just and then I'd be in the studio sometimes at digital because those are my guys and I was dating a road manager

back then, all the wild stuff we was doing and shout out to Neil Sluth Johnson, who's an amazing guy, still were friends to this day. You know, we'd be in the studio in Emering County or in Richmond and be like, you know, gold records from like, Platinum Records from like Qie Lewis in the News and Journey and Frankie Beverly,

with Mays and the whispers and all pointer sisters and all this grace of tower power from Oakland history. And it's like we felt like we were in the righteous space, man. It felt good. And honestly, it still feels good. I had to get it out. Daniel, I thank you very much. I know we had a few false starts and trying to do this.

But thank you. I was just going to say, Mark Weingarten wrote that four-year-old review. He wrote that review that you're talking about. I remember one. Yes. Okay, yeah, but I just wanted to thank you for that. Oh, well, of course. We're happy to be of service.

We really are, and we really were. And like I said, all of us that work there over the time, I'm not saying we didn't have our bad times, but if you are a part of Vibe X, X, Excel, the source, any of those big magazines, even Essence, Latina, all those King. Essence Latina, wow. Yeah, you know, King magazine, slam, all that stuff.

It's like, it's a certain fraternity slash sorority. that we're all in and everything wasn't perfect. We didn't do everything right, but we are most, most of us pretty proud of the stuff that we did there. And if it wasn't for that, would there be shine bright? No.

Would there be Black Girls song? Right. No. Not at all. No. Not at all. So, yeah, again, I really want to thank you. And yeah, I highly recommend to our audience

who religiously listens to our podcast. You definitely want to get the book, get the hard copy. And actually, you know, the audio book where, I've just never heard someone so emotionally. Oh, listen. Ripped into.

Yeah. Because no, no, the days I couldn't read it, I would drive to it. And, you know, there's a few times you had to break down and catch some tears for a second. And that's me. I was just going to say that. Yeah. An awesome level of vulnerability. And I really love the book.

And it sets a lot of light on a lot of unsung heroes that we didn't know. So thank you very much, Daniel. I appreciate it. Thank you all. Thank you, Quest so much. It's an honor. And thank you everybody on this team. It's amazing to see and meet everybody. All right. On behalf of Laia and Fantigolo and Sugar Steve, you're still there. Yeah, thank you, Danielle. There you go. The journalism episodes are my favorite. Unpaid Bill is back. Whatever you said. You're on mute right now.

I'll speak for him. You said, give me a baby. All right, great, great. All right. This is Questlove, and we'll see you on the next go round. Thank you very much. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast?

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