The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Darius Rucker

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

Singer-Songwriter Darius Rucker talks about Hootie & the Blowfish, going from playing frat parties with Dave Matthews to The Grand Ole Opry as a solo artist and the obstacles he faced along the way. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, Football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of. of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions.

You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What's up, y'all? This is QLS Classic from No. November 22nd, 2017 with Darius Rucker.

Yeah, singer-songwriter, Darius Rucker, talks about hoody and the bluefish. You know those guys, right? They go from playing frat parties to playing with the Dave Matthews band, to the Grand Ole Opry, and then going as a solo artist, and he also talks about the obstacles he faced a long way. And, yeah, by obstacles, we do mean racism. But we also speak of his love of hip-hop and other types of music and sports, and his strange obsession of the spirit animal, the late great Nate dog. So you don't want to miss that one, all right?

Dari's Rutgers, Quest Love Supreme, right now. Steve looks like a homeless truck driver. Suprema, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, supremer roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, subprima, roll car. Suprema, sub, subrima, sub, sub. Supremma Rocahaw! No, his name is not Hootie.

Yeah. It's Darius. Yeah. Mr. Rucker. Yeah. If you're nasty. Roca. Supremma.

That didn't rhyme. Supreme a Roca. Supremma. So, Supremma, Roll Call. My name is Sugar. Yeah. I'm being wooed. Yeah.

By other podcasts. Yeah. But I only want to be with you. Roca. Supriva. Subima. Sub prima roll. I'm unpaid bill.

Yeah. Ready to rock. Yeah. Shout out to South Carolina. Yeah. Go Gamecox. Roll call. Supremea.

Supremma. Rocah. Superma Roca. I forgot Boss Bill's name? Yeah. Well, I forgive you. Whoa. Ah.

Yeah. Supremma. Oh, Kong. Wow. Suprema. Subima. Roca. Islae.

Yeah. And I'm gone country. Yeah. Darius. Yeah Hihaw, I meant this be No, come Wait,

What? Hia! Sucrema, Rold call Please save us there Hes. Save us Supreme a roll call

Well, I'm from the country Yeah That's where I'll be Yeah I'm chilling quest to everybody Y'all come and see Roll call

Thank you Prima Supraima Supremma Roll Call Suprema Suprema Suprema

Roc Suprema Superma Supreme a roll call Suprema Superma Roll call I haven't screwed up like that

since like episode four Yeah Oh Jesus Thank you Darias for saving Our theme Thank you Oh Jesus Christ

You ain't ever watch the Gia No I practiced Yeah but it didn't rhyme And you know You ain't round Wasn't around to it nasty Darius clearly But

My was Did you not hear that? Did you not hear that? Yeah See mine was better Ladies and gentlemen, this horrible show you're listening to is called Questlove Supreme, Only on Pandora. My name is Questlove. We got Team Supreme with us, Sugar Steve.

Unpaid Bill. I'm back. Who has, looks new. We haven't seen you in a while. I cleaned. Is that like a members-only jacket? Do you like it? You have a new girlfriend, don't you?

You're on Bumble, aren't you? I'm not on Bumble. I have a girlfriend. Oh, okay. What's that ad? As in one. As in he used to have multiple. That explains the hair cut.

I was about to say that is the only reason why you look brand new right now. I have to go to a thing tonight too that I can't look like shit at. I'm impressed. Just so you know you look great. You don't look well enough to go to a thing later. No, no, no, no. No, but he's glowing. He's glowing.

I have a suit in the car. Okay, good. Thank you. Oh, wow. Okay. And boss Bill is here. He also looks as good as I do. Ticolo is somewhere handling

he's getting in shape yeah he's getting married he's getting married one of wasting his wedding tuxedo uh ladies and gentlemen uh I have to say that um our guest today um

is literally loved by millions uh at least 16 at least yeah it's rare I think he might be the first diamond artist of a non greatest hits or a compilation to ever be on the show.

Grammy Award winning. Babyface? I don't think two million people part of his record. But I'm sure, you know. Don't be stealing Darius Joyckel. No, you're good. I wanted to find somebody.

I just wanted to make sure you didn't disrespect anybody else. I don't want any angry emails from MC Search. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. But I have to say that for the last 25 years or 20 plus years,

I won't, our guest has been entertaining millions and millions initially as a front man of hooty and the blowfish and now as an artist in his own right. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme, Darius Rucker. Thanks for having me, man. Yes, we got on a puncher. Anyway, how are you today? I'm good, man. How are y'all doing? I'm good.

I'm good. Not bad. I like this. It's really bad. I got to say that, you know, for a lot of the guests of this show, many of which have had careers in the four and almost five decades, you're probably the first act that I don't know intimately as in like the back of my hand, but I'm very curious about your journey on your whole lifespan. It's like I know of you. I know of your music, but I never know of you as a person in your beginnings. So I know that you're, you were born in Charleston, South Carolina.

Charleston, yeah. Just this little old neighborhood. There was six kids, you know, dad wasn't really around a lot, if at all. And just, I had, you know, lived in this little neighborhood, this great little neighborhood. We had our neighborhood with the small houses and we had the projects behind us. and, you know, we fought every day and just, it was one of those things. But ever since I was, ever since I heard Al Green

at the age of four, all I wanted to do was be a singer. That's it. Really? For me, there was nothing else I ever wanted to do. I have to say, I think a year ago, I did a show in Charleston, and I didn't realize how close to New Orleans. It's almost like a cut,

I almost felt like I was in New Orleans, like in the French quarter. How long has it always had that sort of vibe, or is this? Always. It's always been that way. We've always said that we were like New Orleans cousin, you know. Because New Orleans is one of my favorite cities. And when I went there, I was like, oh, I would almost consider,

like, if I had to be one of those people that, like, my grades back down south, like in their later years, like, I'd consider this. Oh, yeah. And considering what. The rest of the United States heard or knows about Charleston, South Carolina. And to still say that, that's how great my time was in the weekend there. So I didn't realize that.

Oh, yeah, it's a great city. Is it a musical city? It's not as musical as New Orleans, but it's a musical city. It's music everywhere. You know, there's always bands playing and just always something to do with music, for sure. Who are some notable South Carolina folks that? I was just thinking about that. Chris Rock.

Chris Rock? Yeah. Well, yeah, Chris Robert musical. There's not a lot of music. Yeah, it sounds like. There's not a, you know. It might be Dary's Rucker. You know, Hooty,

me, James Brown's from like North, was born in North Augusta or something, but he lived in, you know, in Augusta, so that was, he's really known to be more from Georgia or something. Right, right, right, but. How close to Georgia was Charleston? Oh, I'm probably two hours from Georgia, too.

Oh, okay. Yeah, from. Magusta. And you're still there, right? Yeah, I thought, I lived in the city for a couple of years. I was making an R&B record record at the turn of the century. Yeah, I lived here, but

I love it down there. Turn of the Century just sounds weird. I know. In aught five. It was like 17 years ago, there. Stop. Wow. No more years, y'all.

Please. So, you said that your first musical memory was Al Green. Yeah. What was it about his voice that called? His voice, of course. I mean, you know, and those records, you know,

those records of Willie Mitchell-Pruce were so, still when I put him on today, the sound just, my mom, Al Green was her favorite. And so when he, when I, I just wanted to be Al Green. Like, one of the worst days of my life was when my voice changed. This is a true story.

My voice changed. And I tried to sing an Al Green song and I couldn't sing it. And I cried. Like a little baby. One of them let's out, he didn't sound his name. So initially, sort of a, not soprano, but an alto approach, you were singing, yeah, I registered.

All that stuff, yeah. And my voice changed and went straight to a baritone. I can't hear you doing that. I cried for like two days. I couldn't say how green songs were. Yeah, but there you go, Barry White. True, true. You just changed with it.

So was your family musical as well, or was it just you? Yeah, yeah, my family was big time in church musical. Like, everybody sang in church. My dad had a little gospel group, and believe it or not, the gospel group was named the Rolling Stones. The Rolling Stone. I got scared when you said he wasn't around much. I was like, oh. Oh, actually, the way I heard, the way, my relationship I had with my dad was every Sunday morning on WPL in Charleston.

The Rolling Stones had a half hour. And that's where I heard my dad. So there was no McDowell sort of lawyer. I don't think they ever did any. I think that the stones even knew what was happening, you know? South Carolina bound for life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they weren't doing anything.

The stones didn't even know about that. So it's like, that's a secular stone. We're the Christian Rolling Stones. Oh, yeah. They started a show saying Rolling Stone gathers no moss. So were they kind of like the Backwoods gospel quartet? Exactly. You know, they came out and did all those songs.

Never really wrote anything. Just did all the old spirituals and stuff. And they, I mean, they were great. I mean, he was a tenor. and he was great. And my mom had an amazing voice. Like I used to sneak in the living room when my mom was cooking her clean in the kitchen

and I'd sit in the living room just to listen to her sing because she had an amazing voice. She was really something special. Was it, of course, I guess when you're traveling with a gospel quartet or whatever, most kids that have that experience have to have church all week, not just on Sundays. So was it just? Yeah.

Was this a Baptist or 7th? day of Venice. Oh, we were Baptist. We were straight Southern Baptist, man. And everything that comes with it, that's what we were. Saturday service, Sunday service. Sunday service. Sunday service.

Sunday service. All day service. Yeah. I mean, we went to church at like nine and got out at three. We were there all day. It was an all day thing. And it was, you know, that was just the way we were ready. You go eat at night.

Yeah. And the night service. Exactly. You love the night service because you know you can get some sweet potato pie. You love that. Did you ever sing with the... I sang with the choir? I never sang with his group.

No. Okay. How were you when you sang in the choir? God, I started singing in the choir when I was, I guess, 11 or 12, and I sang for three or four years in the choir. So because you were... I'd assume you were born in the late 60s? Yeah, 66.

Oh, I'm guessing. I promise I wasn't going to say no more years. To grow up down south. post civil rights period at least I consider the Mason-Dixon line to be

1965. Yeah. What were your childhood experiences like in those formative years like the first 10 years of your life? Born a year

after we got the right to vote. Yeah. It was, you know, it was... Like, we're in adult size was it like, hey, a new day? Or like, how did you see... No, it was still bad. It was still bad. Growing up.

They didn't get the memo yet? No, I remember being six in my mom And her friends, she was a nurse, and they organized this big march because they were getting paid so much less than the white nurses. So they organized this big boycott in March. And I just remember that being, you know, people putting death threats in our mailbox and stuff like that. It was, it was the South. You know, I always say the one thing about growing up where I grew up is you always knew who didn't like you.

There was never questioned. You never had to wonder if this guy was up here. or disguised. But down there you knew who didn't like you and they made no bones about it. Yikes. Yeah. You still stayed to go to college and...

I mean, my family was there. Where was I going to go? You know, and once I started playing music in college, you know, we were playing that little circuit down there and where was I going to go? Were there bands in your high school experience? My first band was Houdina Blowfish. Really?

Wait. Good start. Yeah. Wait, seriously? I was my first band. Wait. Yeah, wow. How lucky can...

Let me just try this band thinking, oh my God, we're the biggest band in the world. But you guys were around for a while before you guys. Yeah, we were a band for eight years before we got a record deal. Dude, wasn't your first band of roots? Yeah. No, I mean... Square roots?

No, but I considered, like, I did work in my dad's group. Oh, okay. That's true. That was your dad's group, but I got you. That's my group, too. Like, shit, I did. 13 years in that group before I got my wings. Oh, wow.

No, that's amazing because usually people have to... Well, my problem was nobody in high school could play. Like, I didn't have anybody in high school that was a guitar play. I had one guy to play guitar, and I don't know one drummer or bass player. They played in the band, but nobody's sick. So there was no high school curriculum for music or no other stuff? There was, but there wasn't anybody going to let's start a band. You know, like I sang in high school choir and all that stuff, show choir and all that stuff.

But it wasn't like anybody was trying to start a band. And so I just never did. And then when I got into college and I met Mark, I was like, hey, man, let's jam. And we started the band. So being as though musical aspirations weren't like in your high school years or whatever, like what did you want to be when you grew up? Like, what was your... I wanted to be a singer, but when you're from South Carolina,

you hear so many times that you're never going to make it from South Carolina. And so you've got to decide you'll do something else. So I decided I was going to be a sportscaster. I went to school for broadcast journalism, you know, and... Sportscaster. Yeah, I wanted to. to talk about sports, you know, do the sports on the 6 o'clock news was my goal.

That was way before ESPN or anything like that back in 84. This is in high school? This is in college. That was in high school, I decided that was going. That also explains why he had Oberman-E-SPN era. Oh, yeah.

Of course, now it's making sense. So, well, I know that most down-south towns are football towns, college towns. Like, you weren't a sports guy at all? I liked sports. I played sports until I was 13, and it was tough to realize that I wasn't going to play in the NFL. But when all my friends were better than me and they weren't going to play in the NFL,

so around 13 I decided I should probably concentrate a little more on singing. And so that's when I really started trying to become a singer, just trying to learn how to sing. And really, just from listening to records. I've never had a voice lesson in my life. It was just listening to records and singing alone. That's amazing. Yeah, it was crazy.

Oh, okay. So where did you go to college? I went to South Carolina. Okay. So that's basically in your freshman or a sophomore year, you guys? A sophomore year, I meet this kid hears me singing in the shower. And I come out of the shower. You know, we had those big community showers with no, just jailhouse showers.

Right. Yeah, we had those. And I'm singing some song in there, and he hears me, and I walk out and he says, you know, was that you? I was like, yeah, he's like, I play guitar. Let's see if we know any of the same songs. And we went to his room and knew. about 10 of the same songs and decided we were going to, I told him we could get us a gig

at this chicken wing joint and that's all started. And you guys named yourselves Judy in the Bluefrest? Oh, dude. I was still mad at myself about this. At first we were the Wolf Brothers, then we decided to get a whole band. And there was two guys. I sang with them, and one guy had these really big eyes. And I used to be a real asshole.

I used to give people nicknames all the time. And this guy had big eyes and I called him hooty. And everybody started calling him hooty. and his roommate and best friend who later we found out it was his boyfriend and he had these big cheeks and he played he played trumpet too so he had these big dizzy glassby cheeks and he'd do that thing and so I started

calling him to blowfish I'm certain that even now do they know this story VH1 did a 30 minute special one on them that's amazing I was going to say I'm serving right now at the family table

Thanksgiving like Oh, I'm sure they tell that story all the time. And I'm going to ask the dumb question in the room because somebody's listening and somebody's thinking it. Hootie is a fish? No, who does an owl? Oh, what? Yeah.

I did not. Okay. Hootie the owl, yeah. Don't look at me, it was somebody listening right now who thought that. No, we're looking at you. So you, at what point are you like, okay, let's, like, how do you escape South Carolina? Because I wouldn't imagine that Charleston is a music town like Nashville.

Oh, no. So was it like, hey, why don't we go to Nashville? Like for me, it was like, we got to go to New York to make it. And we were told that by everybody. We got to go to Nashville or New York or L.A. or Atlanta to make it. And we just didn't want to do it. We wanted to stay in Columbia. And so we were playing a circuit.

Back then, you could play from New York down to Florida into Tennessee. and every place had a club. And so we would just play the same clubs every six weeks. And so after a while, we started doing great at these clubs. I think the year before we got a record deal, we each made $50 grand.

Just playing clubs. How long had you been playing? Wait a minute. That's what we played better than us. We played 300 shows that year. But, you know, it was, and we didn't get a record deal, when we got big, grunge was king. Nobody was trying to sign a band

like Houdina Bullfish. And we put out a little EP called Coochipop and we sold 55. You guys excited. And you know we got Shirley Hemphill. We're watching Shirley Hemphill do her stand-up and she said her daughter saved her whole Coochipop.

You know what? I didn't know she did stand-up. I think I know that routine. Yeah, that's where we got it from. Yeah. What? I think I remember that. Brilliant.

Absolutely. And we so we named a Coo-Pop and we sold like 50, 60,000 copies of it out of the back of our van, just selling it. at shows at these mama pop record stores. And that's when, and it was before Billboard had computers, so you still had to call the stores.

And people were calling these stores in the southeast going, who's selling? And we were like number three and number four. And the people, who did he do you? Is this hooty and the boofish band? And they all came down looking. So this is around like 89, 90? This around 91, 92, when it really started to pick off.

But when did you guys start writing songs? Because I feel like... We started writing songs 89. Because it was a cover, was it, you guys like, covered? Yeah, we were covered for forever. Yeah. And it's so funny. down to out looking out because, you know, Dave Matthews got huge.

We played frat parties with Dave Matthews. That's how big the scene was back then. That scene was so good. It's not that way anymore, but we didn't even care about a record deal. We were making good money. Well, I was going to ask, what would you, how would you categorize yourselves? Because from me, from me seeing you guys, and we, like, there have been a few of those big giant festival where, like, the roots were on, like, the ninth stage

the backlog stage you guys were headlining and I would I rarely hear people describe I always thought that you guys were more of a jam band with pop sensibilities absolutely like not all the way fish but

kind of in that lane like would you consider because I never considered it country pop or straight ahead pop or, you know, because there's musicality and... Absolutely, we were a jam band with that pop sensibility because none of us could play well enough to be a jam band. Nobody wanted to hear our guitar player play a solo for 10 minutes, and nobody definitely wanted to hear me play a solo

because I still can't play a solo. So, but we had that jam band feel about us. So that's what we always thought we were. I see, okay. So at what point does Atlantic come in the picture? Atlantic? Yeah, they came in 90. Atlantic came at the end of 92 and started talking to us,

and everybody was, but everybody was talking to us. I mean, and we met this guy that we liked, and so we went with Atlantic, and I remember making cracked review, and there's some people right now that if you talk to them,

they'll tell you they signed us, but they didn't. They lie. And, Danny Goldberg was president of Atlantic at the time, and people went in, people at Atlantic went in and told Danny Goldberg that you can't put crack review out,

told him that if one guy, I told him that if you put correct review out, we would be the laughing stock of the music business. Why is that? Because it wasn't grunge. And everybody was buying up the grunt, and grunge was everything. You know, Kirk Cobain and Pearl Jam and those guys, they were everything. And they told him

to not put out. And Danny just told him we're putting a record out. And, you know, the rest, I guess, just hit. Okay, so obviously the one factor that made you guys unique was the fact that a black lead singer, in this band. As far as once the majors got to you guys

and at least we're courting you to sign to the label, was there hesitancy as far as, like, was that ever the, was that ever the white elephant in the room? Oh, absolutely. How are we going to sell this in the marketing? That was always. I mean, I don't know how many times people said, you know, with Lenny Kravitz did it?

I was like, yeah, but we don't sound like Lady Kravitz. You guys weren't hippified. That's the thing you were so dudes, next door. Yes. Exactly. Keg guys next door. But that's the thing. You weren't, I don't, you guys weren't silly frat. You weren't, it was so normal

that it worked. It was relatable. But I'm certain that someone said like, well, just let the music, you know, let the music speak for itself. You notice we're not, there's no picture of us on our first record. The Motown theory. Yeah. And that was on purpose. That was on purpose. That was. Oh, y'all had me fool. Somebody wanted to that. They didn't want people to see, you know, because if they, and if they saw me on the record,

they would have thought I was a drummer or the bass player. You know, and so when we, actually when we started making our first video, like, people, you know, they were worried that, you know, the video channels weren't going to play. Like, you know, I was like, well, you know, let's see. So there's discussions of just doing an arrowsmith and have a narrative of the story and you guys not featured. Yeah, exactly. Did that bother you? I mean, because. Always. Always, you know, because to us it wasn't a big deal. Man, we had just played frat houses where, you know, I was called nigger and all this stuff. We had just busted our butts to get to where we were going through the South,

playing all those shitty gigs that, you know, I looked back going and go, I can't believe we didn't, you know, had didn't have to fight our way out of that frat. Yeah, that I was thinking. You know, HBCUs. Yeah, you know, exactly. And so when we got there, I was like, man, we're on the big stage now. We still got to deal with this crap. How did your bandmate?

How did they deal with? Because this is something new for them, I'm sure. It was new? Yeah. But, I mean, you know, they were thinner skin than I was. I knew that if I was going to do this, I had to have thick skin. I knew that the instant we started playing in the South. That if I was going to do this, I got to have thick skin,

and we're going to be fighting everywhere we play. Damn, I forgot, because you're the front man, and I know there's always some asshole or a heckler. Always. Or beer thrown? Sure. So how, you must be, have, like, marksmen like, I am pretty quick

I have El Gato In my mind I see in one of those clubs With the cages around I got to say Roll House We played one of those Wow Oh really?

Yeah Like Blues Brothers Blues Brothers That had the fence Around the stage You guys never played Raw High just Oh we played raw high just for a cage

Oh we played raw hot that night Didn't even know it Picked it Oh man That dog That is That is brave Like does

Would that ever give you anxiety because I don't know I mean at the most I would probably fear facing an audience that has indifference but not you know wondering every night

where's it going to come from I tell you the times when I got the most scared or like but you know we took the gigs we're going to play the gig but anxiety was playing those frat houses in the south like going to the University Tennessee and playing the frigging KAA So private going to Presbyterian and playing the KAA house and

you know, I don't know what it is like that, but back when we were in school, KA was the Old South frat. You know, they basically, you know, they should have had three Ks instead of KA. Was that ever a redemptive purple-re moment where it's like, where it's like when you get to that climatic song

and they're looking at each other like, yeah. Yeah, but then, yeah, absolutely. There was. There was, but then we're lowering our shit down and I, and the guys are standing in front and I hear this. Man, that was good.

band even though they had a nigger singer. Oh, heard it. The guy was right there what he said it. And what's crazy for you is you had to go through both sides because it's like you have that and then you're not black enough on the other side because I'm sure there were situations that you wanted to do or even as far as publications that you wanted to talk to. And it was like, wait, I'm here. Absolutely. That's been the hardest thing for me is to have to get it from both sides. I've sold 35 million records. There was one point where I was in the biggest band in the world.

And you know I've never been on the cover of Ebony or Jet. I've had one story in Jet. They did a story about who was going to blowfish in 96. Dog. You never? You've never been on there, right? We just got the cover of Ebony. But I'm just saying that it's, it's even though he's, we're in different genres,

there is, it is a psychological. mind fuck to thrive in a business where categorically or statistically the audience that's supporting you might not necessarily embrace you in real life and on top of that the people that you look like when you look in the mirror aren't necessarily supporting you as well so it's a very weird thing to Bob Marley It's well I mean There's a lot of acts like that

But it's still You know what's crazy Y'all should know it It trickles down to radio too Because I've been told I come from radio And I've been told Okay black people aren't into that

Like yeah we can't talk about that Oh can we just talk about No black people don't So it trickles down in all kinds of ways I don't want y'all to just think like You know Well that's also the difference Because he has a lot of hits

And I got one in the half hits All right All right, so the album comes out and it becomes out and it becomes an unstoppable monster. Yeah. Like, and again, I know that no one planned any of this. It wasn't like you were doing Michael Jackson posted's on the wall like 10 million. No, not at all. So at the point where it's like, where your sound scan numbers reports are coming in deal, like, oh, guys, another.

million another million another million another million does it does it get scary because like this is your first album and are you already thinking like damn now the second album has to be just as good and i was i was the one that said to the band y'all know this is never going to happen again right i mean it was even as it was happening it got to it got to like 12 million and they i mean they wanted to go they wanted to chase michael jackson they wanted to put two more singles out they wanted to Chase Thriller. They really, really did. They wanted to put two more singles out, but we stopped it. Just out of respect for my own. No, we wanted to make another record.

We were like, these records went out for two years. Let's make another damn record, you know? Tad is singing the same songs. Tadda's saying in the same songs to make another record. And it was, it's getting crazy, but I knew it. Dude, we sold six million on the next record, and that's considered a flop. How crazy is that? We sold six million records, and it's considered a flop. That's crazy. And today, if anybody sell $6 million? Yeah, you can't.

You can't. With the overwhelming success. You can't. It's not possible. So, okay, so when you get to Fairweather, Johnson and the other records, like, are you, well, I mean,

what's the, as far as you guys are concerned, are you guys still a tightening? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because usually when bands get to that level, like you two, yeah.

Dog, their entourage situation is the craziest thing I've seen in my life. Like, even, And Adam Clayton has his own private plane, his own bus, his own entourage. Like, each band member in you two has their own world. Like, it's something I've never seen before.

But are you guys like, okay, we're going to stay humble, stay on the same bus? We were so tight. I mean, we felt it was still us against the world. And the party was on. I mean, we, I mean, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, We were, at that point, when Fairweather came out, we were raging. I mean, it was like, I think back to that time. And when we get together to four of us talk, we say the same thing.

Thank God for letting all four of us make it out the end of that. And so that was something that brought us together. We were just having so much fun. We didn't care about the record sales. The only thing we loved is that the shows were bigger. You know, that's what we cared about. The shows were bigger. We're getting to play as much as we want, having a great time.

I actually could afford to pay off my student loan and get me a car. Yeah, that was the first thing you did, right? First thing I did, first check. I paid off my student loan. First check. Damn. How much was that? How much your student loan?

The Obama just paid off the student loan? It's like $70,000. Oh, I'm with you. It started out. Your first loan was like 20, though. And just the interest just kept coming. Do you know that the Obama's paid off their student loan the first year being in the White House line? Wow.

Wow. Really? Wow. I know it was expensive, too. They did. They had a lot of schooling. They did. That's real.

That's crazy. So to play, what do you prefer? like smaller intimate settings or is it as intimate when you're playing in the stadium? Oh, definitely not. Today I definitely, if we could play like a 2-3,000 cedar, it's perfect. That's a good. I love you. Is that small?

I love it. That's not small. I mean, small is like $500 in the club, but that's, that's, I like that's, I like that. But, you know, like last night I put, you know, there was, you know, 11, 12,000 people in this tennis stadium. And you just can't, you try to give it all, but you can't see everybody. you can't, you know, you can't really get, and that's, I like that because you know that the checks are bigger and, you know, you're still, and you're doing all right because you got all these people here, but man, if I can play a 2000-seater, I love it.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fultonar Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86.

I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player

on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.

It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people

come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100% they believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money

and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I got to ask a question. So right now, where's your Grammy? This is a running joke on the show. First of all, he has a lot of them. There's like 12 of them. I have this little room where I watch football and write, and I got my studio in there, and there's a little closet area.

If you wanted to see my Grammys right now, I would have to take you to them. It sounds so disrespectful. You never walk in my house and see my Grammys. I'd have to take you to them. Oh, so it's not on the floor. It's not a doorstopper or... Oh, basically.

It's basically a book end. Holding some books up. The two of them are holding some books up. But, I mean, like I say, I was saying the other thing, I don't want people to walk in. Like, there's not one platinum or goal record on my walk. all anywhere in my house. I don't have them. My sisters and brothers have them all.

I don't have my cousins. I don't have any of them. Because I don't want people walk into my living room and seeing all the 18 times platinum and all that stuff. It's like, I know what I did. You know, you know what I did. I don't have to throw it in anybody's face. So my grandma's just a little, they're in the corner somewhere. Just

if you want to see them, I'll show them to you, but you're not going to see them unless. They're not in the bathroom. That's what you're asking. No, they're not in the bathroom. Yours in the bathroom? Yeah. Yeah. Nice. So, mine are in the bathroom. When did you know that it was time to leave the band and start your own solo career? I got lucky if our drummer came in,

we had, you know, you tour every summer. And we were on tour in the middle of the tour and our drummer walks in and says, hey man, you know, I don't want to be a touring band like this anymore. I want to just, we're touring too much. I don't want to be a touring band. My first thought was, okay, I would go do this country record. He was like, yes.

I was like, yeah, I was like, cool. I'm going to do this country thing and see what happens. But you didn't. Right. You, as far as I'm concerned, when I first met you, 2001, you'd signed a Hidden Beach, correct? Yeah, yeah. But that was, we were still together. That was, we took a year off, and I did that record.

Then we got back together and went back on tour until 2018. Okay, I thought you left the group. No, we were just taking time off for then. And then at 2008 was when, 2007 was when they called it, we just don't want to do this all the time. It was okay. And we weren't that band who could have said, okay, we're going to get a new drummer.

We just, we're a band. When the four of us play, we play. If the four of us aren't going to play together, we're not going to play. So the grass is always greener on the other side because... I was shocked. Really? I, just as a working musician, my thought is always about like my livelihood and the people I have to take care of.

Yes, me too. You can't. Yeah, I don't know if it's just with black people. I mean, I would think that everyone thinks like, okay. I also feel like that. As a working musician, I also feel like that. Yeah, so to walk away from something so sure shot, and I'm certain that by that point, you know, your guarantees or nice.

Yeah. For, you know, that time period. To make that every night, to make your, your grandparents' night, to make your grandparents annual salary in one 90-minute concert is great. So to walk away from that is such a risk. Oh, yeah. And I'm not even talking about your standpoint, because you're still here, but for your band members, is it, was it a rastasis or was it like, well, let's talk about it.

No, he had thought about it for a while. I mean, you could tell when he was. talking to us. And I think the band actually thought we might not play for two years, maybe three years, and we'd be out doing it again. And I'll be honest with me, I probably thought the same thing because I was going to make my country record in my basement with my buddies. And because I didn't think I could get a record deal. Because I say all the time, if I was my brother, I wouldn't have given me a record deal. Because at that point, who did he had run his course on the radio? We had done our thing. You know, if we were lucky

if our records would go gold, you know, and it was one, you know, we still had a touring band. We were doing great, but nobody was out. and hooty records. And I thought to myself, if I'm the president of the label, or an A&R guy, I'm not going to give the black lead singer of a pop band that was big

a record deal to do country music. I mean, I just didn't think I could get a record deal. And Doc McGee was my manager, and he talked to president of Capitol and he gave me a record deal before he said who I was. And then when he said who I was, I got lucky because the guy said,

you know, I didn't really get that hooty thing, but I always thought he was a country singer. Wait, I thought you were going to be and say, he said, no. How do you tell him who you want? They were at dinner. The story goes at dinner, and he's with Mike Duncan, and he says, I want you to give this guy a record deal. And Mike was like, who?

And they went around for an hour. And Mike was like, I can't give him deal without telling me. And Doc Pull the deal, I'm Doc McGee. You're going to trust me on this one? Said, all right, I'll give him a deal. And said it was me, and they called me that night. And I went in the next day, and he gave me a deal. And the favorite story that I hear is he said, when I decided to give a record deal,

I called the 13 people. in Nashville that I thought were the tastemakers, the guys that are running country music. He said, I called by 13 friends that I thought would know, that know this business, are controlling this business. I told them all I was saying to you,

and 12 of them told me it will never work. Wow. Don't even do it. You're wasting your money. Who is the work? Like who produced my record from Brogers. Was the one guy who said, great idea, call me when you do it.

Nice. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I mean, dude, when I started going to radio, I had radio guys who are now my best buddies. You know, when you need that extra spin to go to number one, you know, I'd call them up, they'll play it two times in a row.

But when I started, they told me straight up, I told people I'd never played. He said, I've heard people say to me, I thought my audience would never accept a black country singer. They had never heard of Charlie Pride. But it's been 25 years when I came along since Charlie Pride had done anything. Well, let it not be said that you aren't familiar with courting danger. Now, the thing is that,

I thought that that was a natural thing. It wasn't like I said, hmm, really? I thought like, oh, that makes sense. The same thing, if Lionel Richie were to make a straight-up country record or whatever, you know. Which he did. Yes, he did.

But I'm just saying that it makes sense to me, only because, like, especially now that I get to talk to a lot of country acts that come on the Tonight Show. I'm slowly realizing that, damn, I, country acts have a lot of things in common with soul, 70s X. Like, there's a passion there that I thought it was a perfect fit. And so, I mean, obviously, of course. If you think about it, like Glass Night and the Pips,

the imagination on with Midnight Train to Georgia, so it was all country songs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, then you had the Porn and Sisters that won a country Grammy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first one was a country Grammy.

Yeah. So. Neither one of us must be say goodbye was country. But before we get to that, so I, because I know that you were working with Drain Vidal and whatnot. What was that whole experience like doing? I loved it. That's, that's still one of my favorite records that I've ever been a part of. I listened to that record probably three weeks ago.

That was so much fun, man. Work with those guys. Working with Jill and working, you know, I was working with the characters here and working with jazz out in L.A. Where did you record the? I recorded some of it here, some of it in Philly. I was, I mean, I loved that. I love that. I love that record. I think we had some great songs on that record.

Hey, baby, babe, babe. You make me feel like I've seen the song. That duet with Jill. Oh, me too. I love it. What was that like working in the studio with her? Oh, great. She came in, we started writing that song, and I was such a big fan.

And we started writing the song, and we get to the chorus. and when we started cutting, it was so sexy. You know, her voice is so sexy. And I was singing with her. Everything. Everything she gives is sexy. It was awesome. It was awesome.

Yeah. So speak of your, at least for the transformation into going to the country world. How hard was that adjustment for you? For me, it was easy. I mean, because I'm just, I'm still, still that kid from South Carolina that thinks he got lucky. So, like, they were surprised. Like, when we got the first single and I went to my label, I said, I want to be the new guy. I said, I don't want to be, I want to start from the bottom and work my way up.

They were like, well, we had these ideas. I was like, well, I want to do a radio tour. And they were shocked because they said they had talked about it, but they didn't think I would do it. And so I went to 110 radio stations, three or four a day for five, six weeks. I mean, every day. Busted my, you know, talking to people, shaking hands. kissing babies, playing for three people in the conference room and doing all that. How hard is it to make them disattached themselves from what your past was?

That was the hardest part. That was the hardest part. And how do you win that armless wrestling match to? I just went into it. Well, it was myself. I just went in and talked and that was me. And I visited and, you know, you'd go out and have lunch and drink some beers and have a good time. and people liked me and I actually had a good song. Was there anybody that was mentoring you? Like, anybody that went through the process

like you did that changed genres? No. No, that was something that somebody said to me other day I thought of was like, so many people that have gone from Pop to try to... We were talking to a tune-day about that. Trying to do country. And I'm the only person that's made it.

Oh, wow. And I was like, wow, I never even thought about that. But, I mean, I've had a career now. I've got eight number ones. I got a Grammy. I got, you know, five number one records. It was crazy. So, okay, for a person that's never played there,

but has heard about the folklore of the Granul Opry, what is, what is the honor or the folklore of playing the grand old opera? It's pretty sacred in country music. It's like, is it a jury that decides we'll let you play there? Yes, like, who did he tried to play there for years? They wouldn't let us. They would never let us on the stage. They just said, you're not a country band.

And so the first time I played it was pretty awesome. It was just one of those out-of-body experiences because, you know, and the day I got asked to be a member was probably the first day I thought I was a part of the country music. So is it like the Friars Club? It's like explain. Do you know, can you explain for our audience and me? What is? So, okay.

Assuming that you're a young upstart in Nashville, like, is your dream, like, one day to play the grand old opera? Your dream is to one day be a member of the grandel opera. A member. Yeah, to play. Because everybody, once you're, if you're in the business, you could play it. If you're a country singer, you could get on the opera. But becoming a member, you know, it's just an honor that everybody in Nashville is trying to get.

And what's, like, what's a member? Is it like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, or is it? It's more like the Friars Club is probably a better way to describe it. It's a big fraternity of musicians. And we all give our time to the Opry and, you know, the charity stuff that the Opry does and all that stuff. And it's like everybody wants to be a member. So who initiates the idea? Like, does your manager call them and say, hey, oh, they have to come to you?

They have to come to you and say, do you want to be a member of the Grand Ole Opry? Are you the only pepper in that salt? Me and Charlie Pride. Okay. We are there's two pepper chickens. I can just imagine like the casual conversation. Were you fan of Charlie? Absolutely.

Growing up as a kid with like limited television shows on but a lot of variety shows, I definitely remember like Charlie Pride always seeing him on these variety shows in the 70s, but I'm not that familiar with his. discography. So, I mean, did he get a lot of play? He got a lot of play where we lived. Like, I was an AM radio kid where I just sit and flip through the radio and whatever song I liked, I'd stop on it. And Charlie Pride, I mean, and even in our house, because He-Hull was big in our house because it was one of the only place you could see music on TV.

He-Haw. Yes, exactly. I watched it. Exactly. And so, you know, Charlie Pride. Wait, time out. I watched He-Haw too. Oh, no, no.

I thought you said roll call. I quoted it in my roll call, my Darius rapper, Roll Call. Oh, I thought you meant that roll call was derivative of a sketch from He-Ha. No. But it is also a dance in D.C. we made up, but that's fine. Anyway, continue. And so he was really big. And he was, for me, as a kid, I was always, that kid who wanted to do something different.

And I always thought it was cool that Charlie Pride was, you know, doing something that we weren't supposed to do. You know, we weren't supposed to sing country music. And this guy was not just sing country music. He was entertaining a year, two years. He hosted the CMAs a couple of years. And I thought this guy, you know, he was somebody I definitely looked up to as a kid. Have you, I know it's, well, with a lot of singers in the business, like some of them are kind of slow to meet someone more successful.

I'm not saying like your idol or whatever. Like you don't meet your heroes or whatever. But do you guys have a relationship? Oh, yeah. Was it? We're friends. We're definitely friends. We talk.

We hang out when we can. And the whole Ebony and Jet thing, I didn't even think about that until Charlie said that to me. He hasn't either? Never. And when he said that to me is when I thought, I was like, wow, I've never been on it. I was like, because that's the kind of things I just let go because I'm like, it's just not going to happen. I want to do. And then I thought, wow, Charlie Pride's never been on the cover of Ebony or Jet.

I mean, I was like, wow. And I was like, you know, I guess I kind of understand me, but that guy is a superstar. I would love to know his story. Oh, you would. You should have more. He'll tell you, too. He's a baseball player and everything. He was a baseball player.

I love him. Charlie, Charlie's one of the guys you love to hang out with because he loves to tell stories. And I'll sit there for hours and just let him talk and just laugh. And he's, you should have one of it. He's great.

Dear guys have been doing it, please make this happen. Were you guys friends before you decided to do country? No, we met when I started doing country. So when he found out, like what was the first initial conversation at you guys? Our first conversation was he was hosting the opera and I was on the opera.

that night and him and I got there early so we could sit in the room just me and him for an hour. Wait, we laughing about getting there early? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, Dan, your country people get here real. Yeah, shout out to your public.

I wish you could see our text message. She was like, country people come early. He's like, what black men? How about you? so early. You got me, man. You got me. So you guys got there early and...

And we just sat and talked for like an hour and hour and a half. We just sat in a room just me and him and talked. And I picked his brain about his life and my life and what I can expect. And I'll be honest with you. One thing I said to myself years ago, we were talking earlier about the frat houses and all that stuff. I said to myself years ago, no matter what I go through, I can handle it because I can't imagine what Charlie Pride went through.

I can't imagine what he went through to succeed the way he did. And I always said, if he could take that, I could take whatever they got to throw my way. I'm almost scared for you because it's kind of like a semi-resurgence of Charlie Pride's time. So I'm like, you're right. You're right. Oh, you're right. And the funny thing is the only time I've ever really experienced something that was just so blatantly racist at one of my shows is we're playing a show in upstate New York. Upstate New York.

I'm not surprised. We're playing a show and all of a sudden we see these six giant, giant rebel flags and these guys are walking around the crowd carrying a rebel flags. So my boys are like, hell no. So they all got together and they went out with- Hooty or Darius? No Darius. And these guys went out and grabbed these cats and these cats are straight out.

We are the local chapter of the KKK. We are here to vet to mess. People don't know about the East Coast KKK. We were like, are like, y'all are getting the fuck out of here. You know, y'all got to go And we kicked them out How long ago was this? Got three years?

Trouble with the world is way to visit and think about it all like Why is there rumble playing From the state house walls Tired of hearing this shit about here It didn't out here Time to make Why must we need What do you say

When the paths on the street What do you want to say Okay Well since we're talking about This is really appropriate. Can you talk about the song Drowning, which seems to be quite as relevant now as it was 20 years ago when it was first release?

Yeah, you know, the rebel flag used to be on top of our state house. Like, it would be the U.S. flags, the South Carolina flag, and the rebel flag were flying over the statehouse. There was a big controversy that we just wanted it taken down. We wanted it taken down. So one night I was out at the bars, and there was his cat. He was a homeless cat.

And his name was Spider. We all call him Spider, and he's sitting on a thing. And so I went back into the bar, and I grab two beers and I go down and I sit next a spider and we start talking and we're drinking my beer before I go to the next bar and we start talking about the rebel flag and he he knew the band and he said to me one thing he said you know all the hate that hate that hate that's going on you he said you know it's you know it's you're like what do you mean he's like you know they're playing with these white boys you're the one they really hate and I went wow and I went

home that night and I wrote drowning and drowning it's a protest song I mean there's no other ways you could say it's a protest song and and uh I just I wanted to, I was so frustrated that night and I was so like taken aback by what Spider had said that I sat down and, you know, and I wrote it and, you know, when it came down, that was one of the songs they were playing at the statehouse when they were taking it down.

I thought that was pretty cool. It's all right. Do you stand that, but the, so now, you know, not the flag issue was down. Now there's the statue issue. How do you feel about? I'm just curious because I know South Carolina, you know, they've been pulling statues down around there.

The thing that kills me about, All the people will go, you know, you're forgetting history. These are the people who claim to be these patriotic Americans. And the South tried to destroy the Union. They tried to destroy what America was, when America, and also they could keep black people with slaves. And they were terrorists, and they were, you know, and they want to keep that up. But all those were put up in the Jim Crow era. And they were put up to to show black people, we are still, you know, we're still the man.

We hate to them, we're going to put all these things up. And people don't realize that. You know, that wasn't put up in 1880. They think that it was. They think that it was. But it was. It was put up during Jim Crow to keep black people in their place, so to say. And so I'm good with taking them down.

Good stuff, Carolina, boy. I love it. So based on what's going on now, I mean, how awkward is it doing press in that circuit, especially what's going on now? I know that you're a big sports fanatic. And it's almost like every day you wake up, everyone, America wakes up, sort of panic-stricken because they're not knowing what's going to be reported next on the news and secondly turning on.

Now, just dealing with the White House and the National Anthem and football and everything. I mean, how hard is it to just. just sell your product in that marketplace and kind of step between, you know, landmines of of avoiding being a spokesperson or content. And the thing for me, it's hard both ways. Because, like, I sing the national. I was in London singing the national anthem just a little while ago. But just the way I was raised, I can't kneel doing the national anthem.

I understand why they do. Trust me, I've been stopped for driving a nice car a million times. I've got brothers and cousins and uncles and friends. And I'm totally with what those guys are protesting. You know, and I get it from there. But then, you know, like you said, you're out trying to sell a product and people want to talk about what's going on. And, you know, you say the wrong thing.

Look at the Dixie tricks. You say the wrong thing one time. And your career could be over. I mean, you know, career suicide. In country, it seems like, though. Yeah, country. Especially in country You got a

The Dixie Chicks said one offhand thing The day before they said that They were the most played band On Country Radio by far Long live Natalie The day they said that They haven't played sense I've never heard a Dixie Chicks song

On the country radio I listen to country radio all the time I've never heard a Dixie Chicks song And that you know you look at that And so You stay true to I stay true to who I am You know I do If you ask me a question I'll answer

I answer the way that I want to answer But it's like it's such a fine line to walk out there, you know, because you always want to do the right thing, but then you have to think about, you know, about this, about my career, about all this. And so it's tough getting it sold, but you've got to go out there and work.

It doesn't sound like you, you asked to be a spokesperson for race, but you seem to have, it seems to be this responsibility that's been put upon you just because of these lines that you seem to be walking. What is that like?

I mean, like, I don't think, you know, like, I feel like some people, they want to talk about race, and it's very important to them, And this just feels like where you live and the genres that you jump between, you're automatically this sort of featured person about whether you want it or not, which is crazy and ridiculous. But like, this is kind of part of being black. Well, okay. No, but I'm coming from me, a white person, I'm just, I don't know what that's like.

Whenever I'm in a situation, I have a fear of like, oh, God, please don't let an awkward statement happen. Please, I just want to. I live that. I just want to go to Starbucks and get my coffee. I live that every day. And whatever. So. Yeah.

Like I did the CBS Saturday morning thing and it goes so crazy because I did the CBS Saturday morning thing and I, you know, I was doing exactly what you saying. Don't let me say something awkward, something, you know, because I started talking about the M.A. Well, not even you. I'm just from other people. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like some question or something that gets me to say something and then I go, well, yeah. Right.

Come on, man. You know, like, you know, it's just, it's a fine line. Plus, you're like a double agent in a way. So I feel like you have like information. You know what I mean? I do. You do. So I'm sorry if we're asking me to question.

I'm like, oh, I know there's. I'm like, what do you do when they talk about the NRAs? It's so much they're all your fans. Man, it's fascinating. You're fascinating. You should be on the cover of Ebony. Yeah. Make it happen, my year, please.

If I, I'm on the link, okay. I'm the black is up in here. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions.

my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars, and now, I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old.

I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer... Football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable.

And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month

and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures,

it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's not. like 100% they believe everything. But at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids.

They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How hard is it to navigate a career and a personal life, like, away from your career? Like, are you a 24-hour? I have to constantly tour. I have to always make music.

Is it just like, okay, I want time off to, you know, have a family life or that sort of thing? Like, how hard is it to? I think that's probably the main reason I live in Charleston is because the place where I live, everybody knows me. Like I've been living there I've been living in the same neighborhood For 20 years now Everybody knows me They've you know

I grew up with a lot of people Like I played the show the other night And I knew half the people in the crowd And so Because I don't have to work all the time I love being off I love being with my kids I love being home with the family

I love that And so I lived there So I could just have a normal life Because really outside of my job My life's pretty normal I mean like people are surprised when they hang out with me, because I go to Walmart and Target every day.

I go to the grocery store every day. I expect there is record in the Walmart. I do. I do. Yeah, you wouldn't see me. I love it. What's it like being around? Because all your brothers and sisters are still in the area too, right?

Yep. So not to be all up in your business, but since you did. But since you did have such a successful band, you are such a successful artist, do you get to, I've learned this from Questlove, retire people? Like, are there certain people that you like, you know, like certain your older brothers and sisters,

you're like, don't worry about it. Do you have hangar-ons? There was, yes. Wait a minute. Why would you even answer that question? I didn't say hangar-ons. I made it pretty. I made it pretty.

There was one thing I said to my sisters and brothers when cracked reviews started taking off. No. I said, I love you guys. Uh-huh. I said, I love you guys and you guys will never be kicked out of your house. Okay. You'll always have a car.

Okay. But we are not rich. I am rich. I am rich. I am rich. I will take care of you. I will make sure you never ever, if you're, if you're four months late on your mortgage, call me.

But you're not getting a new house. But you ain't getting a brand new house just because you want a house. And I'm not writing a check for it. That's beautiful. Talk, where were you on my way? You don't have as many brothers and sisters as he does. They know they can call me anytime. They know if they call me and say, you know, Darius, I'm in a bind.

I'm going to be there in a minute with cash or a check or whatever you need. But don't expect me to change your life. I can't change it because I want to stay this way. I don't want to be broke. I have an innate fear of being broke someday. Yeah, I grew up poor. You know, I have this great fear of being broke someday, and I ain't having it. I just want to take about 17 seconds to appreciate this moment.

First, the Dillah Siren. Okay. Because it just hit me that there's a black man in this business that has went diamond. Yes. That shows up on time. Early. Early. Early.

Early. Early. And doesn't have street dreams and aspirations. Because naturally I'm thinking even whatever. I mean, even whatever, my faux humble approach, you know, even I'm thinking like, okay, diamond. Yeah, definitely I'm going to have a yacht and 12 houses and blah, blah, blah. But. 12?

Oh, for your record collection. Yeah, you just have storage spaces. for your record collection. Yeah, well, they gotta have a home, too. No, but I'm just saying that you're totally going against the narrative of someone that should... I mean, just every person I know that's in your position

has family and friends that they have to carry on their back in their pocket. They have to show up late. You know, I know someone who's... Ex-wives, live in a commune, a gated commune, I showed you the photos. Oh, yeah, you did, yes, she did, yeah, he told us a photo. Oh!

I'd like to see the photo. We have them. But you said that, you know, like, if the mentality, especially with black folk, is like, if one of you is rich, we all rich. He's rich. We're not. How do you know how to say the word no? Oh.

Well, you were smart enough to do it together. Yeah, I did it early. Which means that you might have had. foresight that this might be a big thing. Yeah. I mean, when it started taking off, I realized it was going to be a big thing. How long could you, how long could you

sort of squelts and hide? The money? Never. Oh, don't, I had to say that because. You like, oh, the same Volkswagen, I still have my first car. I'm still driving my same, you know. It's a call to cyan.

Sion. I have one house. I keep. just for appearances. It's not very big. I got one house. Not very big because I didn't want a big house because I don't want my kids to be able to get lost in it. You got a 25,000 square foot house. You could, you can not find your kids if you want to. I got a nice house. I drive a free car, you know. Free car? Yeah, Damarino told me a long time ago, let your, let your community take care of you.

And what's the name of that? Danerry. No. He was my name Charlie Pratt. You're officially my mentor, man. He told me that. He's right. Let your community take care of you. You can do that.

Oh, Damarino hadn't paid for a car since he was a rookie. His kids get free cars. The dealership booth? Just, yeah. Yeah. Wait, that can happen? Yeah. I drive a suburban, man.

Free. Radio DJ did that. I get a new one every six months. Do you know how many DJ gigs I had to do to get my birthday gift downstairs? Well, your birthday gift downstairs ain't no sign on. Yeah, that ain't no suburb. I'm sure. You know, I need a driver.

It might be. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe some cousins are listening right now. Yes, they are. Wait, how is that happening? Okay, now I need you to mention me. Dan Marino told me.

Oh. He did. Wow. I did not know I could ask for free stuff. To ask them around. Dude, you just get with the right guy? Athletes, no, because they're always getting those deals. Because you got to think of all the question.

I also come from management that. ain't nothing free Well no no no it's just they They successfully For the longest Talked us out of that Lifestyle You know what I mean

Like again I got my license when I was 34 Wow I got my first car when I was 34 It was traumatic Wow A lot of driving him around A lot of driving him around No I mean

We were a touring band Like their whole logic was Even how I met Jimmy Like when I'm from begged and begged and begged and begged, let me get a house in L.A. please. First day out there, I mean Jimmy. And then it's like, crap.

Got to move back, you know. Yeah. East Coast. So whenever I try to really floss, you know, it's always backfired. So I was even talked out of... Would you like me to floss on your behalf?

Sure not. Just give me the access to this. Or just learn from Darius. And don't floss. He don't floss. Although I'm sure those boots aren't cheap. I know. I was looking at those boots earlier. That's something I do splurge all over.

My boots. Where did that snake come from? Darius Ruckers' boots are not to be fucked with. Yeah, they're not. I'm going to get a picture of those on Instagram later. Yeah, I like my boots. I've had my boots. What are they made of rattlesnake?

Yes, they are. Yeah. Did you kill it? Yes. Darius, can you tell me, is it rude to ask somebody if they have a, they have their license? Like, is that rude? No, that's not rude. I can't believe you have to ask somebody that.

No, not a driver's license. They're gun license. Oh, yeah. See, this is stuff that I can learn from you. Everybody's got a gun license. Okay. You're asking about Heather Hunter. Well, no, I asked because he said he killed him.

Even I don't think you did. No way. I think he... I would have ran from this snake. But it let me in my mind and think, damn, I want him. There is hunts. Like, you know, you're in that world, blah, blah.

I don't know. I got a gun license. Okay. See? I don't. Yeah. Any other white people question you want to ask? Yeah.

I feel like you're asking all the white folk questions. It's more like country, not white, because, you know, it's more to white people. I saw you got us on Ebony and Ted. Why are you all the white questions? You don't know about Southern Country White neither, bitch. Wrong. I'm married a Southern white country person.

Thank you very much. She loves me, too. Yeah. She's in here too. Oh, my goodness. So. That key, you see that Key and Peele's thing that they did on me? They did a sketch with me

And he's like, we're down in Nashville We're doing a show and I say, hey, I'm doing nice to meet you. Go, hey, I love you. We love Darius. Oh, you're on mine, that's good. Because Saturday Night Live, they had fun with you too. Oh, dude, I love it. When you're on Saturday Night Live or Keeneb, that means you made it.

I love that stuff. You better tell your president's that. I love it. So what are you not, what are your plans? You're still pissed about the cars, aren't you? I mean, for you, is it? No, I'm still in my head. even though I have a question,

life after a woman was the last time I'm still thinking like, how do I get a free car? So, as far as your career is concerned, what would you hope is your legacy as far as like what you're, at the end of the day, like, is there anything

that you've not achieved besides Ebeney and Jet? You're going to do electronica next? No, no. Honestly, the only thing I have done that I want to do is I'm ever since I can remember, ever since

really notorious big was killing it. I want to sing the hook on a big rap record so bad. Yo, make it go. I want to be Nate Dogg so bad. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm dying to. Mark this is help. Dying to. You know something?

If only Fonte was here. I know. The Carolina connections. Oh, that would be a duet. Damn, Fronte. Why did you have to get married now? It's like Gregory Hines and Luther Pandross. You know something? I'm not wet girl. I'm going to talk to you.

Way too hype. I'm going to talk to you after the show. Because I have a project you might be interested in. It's not an album, but it's concerning that very person. And you are the perfect person to do this. The quest level, I'll just say this. I'm sorry. I'm seriously.

scripted, everyone's like, what are you talking about? I want to say this. You could ask me to sing poo, poo, poo. And the respect that I've had that I have for you and I love you. And I love the roots. I would do whatever you wanted me to do. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Okay, I guess I will reveal it because, you know, I can't keep it a secret.

Because of, uh, well, 2018 coming up, uh, will be somewhat of a notable, anniversary year for a lot of seminal classics and music of 1993. I've been we've been going back and forth

with the Dre Camp trying to figure out a way how to celebrate his 25 year milestone with the chronic and doggy style. Both are

in their 25s. So we're still in the talking stage right now. But one of the snags in the thing was like, yo, who's going to be Nate dog? And I've been wrecked up. Hold on way. That's the truth. You got it.

You got it, Darius? I am still in. I won't cancel my torch. I don't think your manager will be happy about that. He'll be all right. You can pay later. They'll just be early. And you can show up five minutes later.

I'll be there waiting for you all like this. No, and then we can talk about getting him in the museum. I hope he's there. I just, I'm assuming. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The Smithsonian. I'm not in the Smithsonian.

Are you sure? 100%. I don't think I am. You don't think. We're going to check on that. We work on that. We're called Timothy. Yeah.

Yeah. It's probably one of the most amazing experiences of any, well, for black people, especially, to to see that museum in D.C. Oh, yeah. It's... But we need more white folks to go see because, you know. No, hey, do you kidding?

Have you seen the lines lately? I know, I've seen the lines. It's... No, it is. It's almost like, I'd want more black folks to see you. Okay, good. Okay, good. They're coming.

Trust me. We sold it out the first year. Now it's on them, that's right. Yeah, no, it's, you know. But it's... I shall make it an shout out to a Timothy Ann. Yes, her name is Timothy Ann. We don't need no ebony because you're going to be in the Smithsonian.

You know what I'm saying? Oh my God Hype White Coke Oh yeah So holy shit You're like being And me nervous I know

I'm not too Anyway Wait can I get control I just want to talk about Darius He ate those shit Like Besides

Besides Besides singing on a rap hook And see We can make that happen What are some of your other bucket list In life Like do you still get

Itching To do sports Commentary And You know I always tell The local Sports guy

in Charleston that when I retire, he's just holding my seat for me, and he hates when I say that. But I might do that when I, but like, musically, I mean, I'm still so far above where I thought that I'd ever be. There's really not much else that I want to do. Really? Yeah. I mean, I'm having a blast where I am. I'd like to do this for four or five more years if it's, you know, but I want to be relevant.

If it's over, you know, I'll still tour and everything, but I'm not going to, you know, force it down anybody's throat or anything like that. Is there a such thing as retirement? I don't think I think retirement means you just play 50 shows a year instead of a hundred. Well, I'm just saying that if you could stop

and just let the checks come in or whatever. I don't know what the residual game is like as far as like songs being licensed. You guys, I hate to admit that. Have I mentioned the Friends thing already? Oh, God. Okay.

Yeah, I fell down. You guys are in one episode. So one of your songs is in. Yes. Okay. Earlier this summer when I took the one vacation I ever take a year, Alan Yang of Masters of Nunn, Master of Nun fame with Azizan, sorry. Directed a Jay-Z video in which they perfectly mirrored a Friends episode,

but nerd-assed me had to watch both episodes to see if they had it cut for cut. And then somehow I may or may not have watched all 230 episodes. I fell down a vicious rabbit, friend's rabbit. I don't know why I did it. I had nothing to do. I was in Shep Gordon's backyard and, you know, just literally every day I watch season for season for season. So I know that there's a hooty song in there. But as far as like licensing songs for movies and those things and commercials and that stuff, like.

It's still pretty good. Yeah, is one able to retire and not have to. Yeah. Can you say no to that? Not family members. I don't know. Yeah, I could retire. I can retire right now and live a pretty good life.

That's the right. I ain't looking at you. I'm not going to rob you, Darius. I just was looking. She's trying to get my social beauty on my face. Well, man, I thank you very much for coming on that show. We appreciate it. Congratulations.

on his brand new album as well, too. Yeah. Yeah. One was the last time. Thanks a lot. Wait, you watch 250 episodes of Friends? It's 236. Shit.

I've only seen one. That's like one way in. That's true. I've only seen one. I'm a completest, man. You know, this is not going to go real well. Touch you first.

Even Steve's looking at me like he's about to disown me. There's only one reason why somebody would watch all those episodes of friends. What's that? They have no real friends. The only thing he said the whole show, y'all. Drop the mic. Way to go, Sugar. Way to go. So what are your plans with the new album?

Are you going to tour? Yeah. What are you going to tour next year? We're going to do a few shows here at the end of the year. And then I'm probably taking November, December off. And going Australia, I think, at the end of February, March, we'll go to Europe for a minute, then come and do the States. Didn't you play the Apollo recently?

Yes. I heard about that. Thursday night. What was that like? What was it like for you? That's like Ebony Magazine. When we were a kid. You guys know when we were kids, we didn't talk about the garden.

We didn't talk about the Coliseum in Columbia. We talked about playing the Apollo. Right. And I've always wanted to play the Apollo. When they had the showtime at the Apollo, who did you got to play on the stage? We played two songs on Showtime at the Apollo. Steve Harvey? What?

Yeah. For our second record, we played the TV show Showtime at the Apollo. Yeah. Timeout. What was that like? It was a little different. You're not in no booze, though. No, oh, yeah, I was drunk.

But Thursday night, Thursday night, Thursday night, we set a record for white people in the Apollo. In Arlum. Yeah, and it was, it was, it was, uh... Metallica might have had you beat. It was awesome. That's true. Yeah, they played the Apollo.

McCartney played the Apollo, too, so they probably had us. We were probably even. We probably even, but it was, it was greater than I ever thought it was. It was such a great show. And being on that stage, and we, like, broke out some temptation songs and all this. It was nice, man. It was great. Yeah, do you mix up the repertoire of songs you like to cover in your show?

Always, because I still love covers. I'm a cover band singer, I mean, so we'll break out. Like, we do this thing where we do Garth Brooks' Friends of No Places right into No Diggity. Oh, shit. Wow. It's crazy. I mean, back to back. It's crazy.

That's what works. It does work. I forgot to bring up my Garth Brooks analogy. What? Your R&B record, Chris Gaines. Remember that Chris Gaines records? Yeah. I thought that was a dope concept myself.

I thought it was a good concept too. I did not think of it. But Darius was just Darius. Random shit I think about it at home. Singing Army. At home. But I think he definitely got more traction. Oh, no, yeah, definitely, definitely.

Garth kind of ran screaming after that failed. You know what was weird? I think when he came on our show, or it was supposed to come on his show, one of his one of Garth's the internet songs like the extra songs

that we do on the show was supposed to be from that what was the name of his Chris. Chris Gaines. Do you have country friends? What do you mean? You know like other country artists.

Oh, I'm friends with all those, yeah. That's the one thing about the community. The country music community is real tight. I got on my record, I got Luke, Brian, Jason Aldeen all on the same song. Oh, those big ones. Oh, yeah, those are my boys.

Yeah. I have a question about the country music industry. I have a pretty good idea of what most people's gripes are within the R&B and hip-hop industry. What do you not like about the country music industry? Radio is so slow. Like right now radio is in such a slow burn with songs. And it takes, if you're not one of the five big ones, it could take 30 weeks for your song to go up to charts. I think my last number one took like 40 weeks.

Is it the same system as, so with hip hop and a lot of clear channel related stuff, songs are added way ahead of time. So, you know, like if you're taking Beyonce's newest song that hasn't come out yet, they'll pre-program it way, you know, weeks ahead of time. Is it more mom-em? Because I know that, you know, with a lot of the record sales, like, you know, Walmart plays a bit, like they're still buying physical. copies. Is radio still

10, 15 years behind as far as ads and as far as the country world is. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's still, they, you know, they add it and you know, you get a, you're the most added song of the week and you still don't make the top

40, you don't make the top 50, you know, just because you're getting spent, you're getting spun at three in the morning and four in the morning and five in a morning. Then it's a slow build. They just want to build and they want to build and I don't know. It's just the way it is. I don't know. It's just the way it is. I don't know why it's like that and it's like that for everybody. Taylor Swift, too, because I'm wondering, oh, I was starting to eat.

No, Taylor's like, Taylor's the unicorn in the room. Because she doesn't even do country anymore, so I'm like, it just automatically. She doesn't count. She's like Kenny Rogers. Well, no, even then Kenny Rogers, you still get play on. Let me, don't Scooby-Doo me yet. No, just meaning that she's more pop ubiquitous than, that's what I thought. Than country.

So, I'm saying that, you know, You know, are you chilling with like Casey Musgraves? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I mean. Chris Stableton. Yeah, Chris. I love Chris.

Chris and I've written two, three of my number ones together. Wow. Word. Yeah. So is he the real deal? He's the real deal. This is how good he is. Because I was like, every time he performs, man, we're always like, damn, he got us again.

Like, dude, this is how good he is. When we write a song, he can't sing the demo. because he sang the demo to one of my number ones and I wasn't going to cut it because he's saying it's so freaking good I kept saying to my producer I can't sing it like that No I haven't seen him for one of you

would you would be a Chris Stableton Stan You'd marry Chris Stableton I'm Dolly Kenny out No no no no I mean like you He'd Yeah

He must be cute I would want Chris Stapleton on a Roots album Like that's how good he is. Yeah. But Dary's record first because you already told him that you're going to do that. Yeah, we already got that. We never got that. But I'm just saying that's how dope he is.

Like he's... Listen. You should. After I listened to you. I was trying to look under the hood to see, you know, what was there and, you know, but it's... He's the real deal, man. And Chris is doing it without radio play. Chris has never...

I don't think Chris has ever had a record in the top ten. And he's got the number one selling record. Wait, how's he killing? Yeah. I don't know. He's killing them because people know it's real. They go in their shows and everything. I don't think Chris has ever had a record in the top ten.

Oh, so he's like too short. Well, maybe country music is catching up in that way, though. Like, there's a lot of people who are hip-hop like that. He's too progressive. That's what I mean. I mean, I like him. So that's how progressive he is. Yeah, he's great.

He's a real deal. He's just off the chain. Man, have you ever seen gone to a club and seen another black person sing country? I'm trying to see. Who's after Darius? I see. There's a guy, Kane Brown, who's got a number one right now. His record's number one this week.

What's his name? Kane Brown. And there's a couple other young ladies that are coming up that are trying to, Mickey Guyton is one, trying to get a foothold, just trying to get a hit. And there's a few. I think me coming over and having success, I'm not going to say I opened doors, but that A&R person who would have looked at the CD and so was a black person to throw it in the trash probably gives it a listen now.

And so there's guys coming home. Okay, good. There's a black hockey player now, too. There's a lot of them. He's been around. We're taking over hockey. There's like 14 of us in hockey now. We're taking over.

There's a black hockey goalie, too. Have you ever seen that? That's the ultimate anomaly. That exists. How could you say that with Grant Fuhrer was one of the greatest ever? Oh, that's true. Sports guy.

Now, finally thank you. Get them, genius. You're totally right. Clown me and all my sports references. Now, take that. We go super deep on college football right now if you wanted to do. Yeah, we could. I go as deep as you want to go, man.

Gamecox's not doing so well this year. What are you talking about? We're four, we're five and two. whooping, taking name. Damn, he got you again. They'll just give it up. I come from an Auburn, my ex-wife, the same one who's from Alabama,

she is an Auburn fan, and as a Jewish kid from Long Island, you don't know what that's like until you get there, and it's fucking insane. It's insane. Yeah. Absolutely insanity.

Why is it such a religion, though? Because there's nothing else. There's nothing else. There's no pro teams. I mean, there's pro teams in the area. Like, we got the Falcons, or we got Charlotte. But like, and the thing is,

when you go to a school for four or five years, you're invested in it. And when your football team is, I mean, football's everything in the Southeast. Everything. Saturday stops. Saturday stops. Like, my tailgating spot

is one of the few things I've spursed on. The shoes. I spent so much money on this tailgate spot. But for me, it was like, I want to go be able to tailgate without people bothering me with friends. Can I come? Can I come? Please.

Without people bothering me. No, I mean, my friends are there. So wait, is it not, your tailgate spot is not outside? It's outside. So you got a lace screen. It's fenced then. I got me a big old, it's called, I got a big old caboose that's in there. I love these overdone tailgates.

Dude, tailgating is a shit. It's awesome. And we get there four hours before the game. By game time, hammered. Darius, what's your drink a choice? I drink beer, but I like to drink, I'm a whiskey drinker. I got my own whiskey out now, backstage whiskey. If any of you drink.

Shut up. I've heard of it. backstage whiskey. What? What about it? Next time we know. I'll bring you a bottle. Wait, we're on pulling out of phone.

We're on pulling out of food. Whiskey right now. I'm making whiskey notes. It's not even 2 p.m. in the afternoon right now. It's going to be six eventually? Backstaking, whiskey. Five o'clock. Yes, we will show up unannounced at your house.

Anytime. You're welcome anytime in my house. In Charleston. Well, I thank you very much for coming on our show today. Ladies and gentlemen, Jerry's record. Oh, my God. Thank you.

Education. On behalf of Sugar Steve, unpaid and boss Bill, it's Lai'ea, and the newly nuptualled, Fonticillo. This is Kuestlove, signing off. For Kresloaf Supreme,

we'll see you on the next school round. Thank you. Kest Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from I-Heart Radio,

visit the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far.

But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, folks. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials, and what the hell is that Blake lively thing about anyway? We are on it every day, all day.

Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.