The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Elvis Costello Part 1

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

Team Supreme’s Suga Steve, a lifelong Elvis Costello fan, sits and talks with Elvis in Electric Lady Studio A, to be aired as two episodes. Spurred on by a clearly amused Questlove, this is the deepest dive possible into The Roots’ and Elvis’ Wise Up Ghost album and the 50-year career of an enduring music superstar.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players

flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. It's okay to meet your heroes. It's okay to dream. It's okay to let life float you to where you should be. In 2021, Questlove asked me to do a one-on-one interview with Elvis Costello at Electric Lady Studios for Questlove Supreme. At first, I said no. Just kidding. I jumped at the opportunity.

But I wanted Questlove there for part of it, just to see what two of the greatest musicologists and music historians of our time would discuss. I wasn't disappointed, and you won't be either. It's hard to keep up, but it's worth it. And it's hilarious listening to me try to. They're both legends. They're both brilliant. Enjoy part one this week and part two next week. This was originally aired in April 2022.

Phew, can't believe this happened. All right, poor Costello on. And he's interviewed tonight, bye. You know, I don't even know the bloody words in the way of the direction. Like it was trying to lift this person up. So maybe it's a little dramatic. I just wanted to get your attention. It looks like you're no good.

Ah, okay. The reason I mentioned Elvis Costello is because the records that I just pulled out because I got a call from Jeff from New City. The reason I mentioned Elvis Costello... Every day I write the book the way it was written, which was kind of much more sort of strummy. Party down with Elvis? What a great first line. In the history of first lines of rock and roll songs, huh?

I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused. Sometimes you can't read a newspaper without keeping that in mind. And he says, well, that's fine, but you never said what the pads, pause and clothes means. So that's what you have to say. I mean, and this... Hang out with Elvis. educational part of right with Paul McCartney is that he's very logical so he goes you know this is what you got to do you know there's going to be music in it i'm going to cut it in here we have with us a mr elvis

castello you've got everything everything yeah you know i've come out with various albums throughout i have some pretty interesting things that i probably need to clear like the roots running over a high fidelity by themselves at 30 rock you know before that first performance Oh, let's have that. Yeah, that'd be good. Can we get that? Yeah, yeah, sure. Do we do that in the...

We did that on the show yet? Did we do that on the show? Happy Deli. Yeah, that was the first song. Is that the same one we did Chelsea, and then the second time was, like, Stations of the Cross, and someone else. Yeah.

And John? Exactly. Hey, man. Related, happy birthday. I try to play a happy birthday. for shit. I've forgotten how to play the panel of it. I thought it's still. That's good.

No, I said they set this up. You got these? Yeah. I'm going to do a slight preface. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the first Quest Love Supreme that has been done in person

since the March 16th, 2020 pandemic. How strange that we don't have a Supreme of Roakall candy. It should also be noted that this was recorded on January

What's the day's date? 25th. Okay, so the day of this recording is January 25th. And the reason why I feel compelled to acknowledge the date is because we are also recording inside of Electric Lady Studios. On this, the 22nd anniversary of the seminal album

that kind of brought me to the studio in the first place which is voodoo by DeAngelo. So I thought it was rather apropos that Sugar Steve and I Oh by the way Boss

Edit I'm editing this so it's Don't worry about anything I'm gonna chop it up. You're not chopping shit up Yeah unpaid bill Fontigo and Laiia are not with us right now

So right now it's just me and Steve. The last time we did this was with with Herb Alpert. Right. At this very studio. So for me, what's very important about this particular episode and this is again,

me trying to improve as a human. This is all about going out of your comfort zone. So I'm here as a third will or as a referee or as training wills because I really it's my dream.

for Sugar Steve to really bring out his voice in Questle of Supreme episodes. Because, you know, half the time we hog up all the moments and he only gets like one comment in. And, you know, like Steve really has, in my opinion, like, I mean, he's like all, he has so much music knowledge that he has yet to share with you people unless you follow the sugar network. Like, of all of us, he has his own fan club simply for his music knowledge. So that should tell you something.

But for me, I thought, what's the best way to throw Sugar Steve in the long way to jump into the river? And he's really uncomfortable right now. I mean, this long, car can't you? I told you, I'm editing this. You're not editing this at all, yo. I'm sorry. You're not. I'm like you.

I'm a little uncomfortable with compliments. but and see we're out of crossroads here we're not yes we are this is the fact look Steve we this is the very look where we are we're literally at the cross we're in we're in the center of Studio A yes I get it at like the X the middle of the X point similar to Samuel Jackson and Paul fiction you're not talking yourself out of this shit I'm not trying to

all I'm saying is that you know there comes a time where we have to like how long do you have to stay tonight because Listen, I'm here one night. Listen, listen, my whole point is this. My whole point is this. The way that you're acting right now is exactly how I was acting when David Dinerstein and Robert Fivalent had told me that it's my destiny to direct a documentary.

And I'm like, dude, I'm a first-time driver. All right, I got to just jump in here. No, no. This is a special Quest Love Supreme. Yes. I it's my dream to watch Steve talk to his musical hero. I've thought about this. This is essentially as if you got to interview Prince.

I know. You know, like that's essentially where that makes sense to people. I feel like I'm the guy in a threesome that isn't needed. Wow. No, well, see, here's the. Well, that's a relief. Here's the problem. And you say you're trying to become a better person.

So just accept, accept this. As much as I'm thrilled to be interviewing. you know my number one musical hero here. Yes. You're very much a part of the story that I want to tell tonight. Yeah, I'll be here. And I need you here to tell the story,

not just the story of the last 10 years since we've met him, let's say, but a certain theme that I want to get to that you both have in common. So it's like, you're trying to, like, say, you're at training wheels, but you're the musical encyclopedia. I'm here with two of the acknowledged

global music encyclopedias, and you're telling, And you're telling people that I have musical knowledge about something. Let's just do this. This is three friends talking. But eventually, I'm going to get up from this seat and go to Studio B. It's going to be just like 2000. It's voodoo all over again.

It's voodoo all over again. I got Kimber waiting next door. Kimberly is next door. Okay. You got two rooms tonight. Yeah, I got two rooms. However, it's my dream to see you top the Jimmy Jam episode. So, ladies and gentlemen, this is a very special in-person.

in live at Electric Lady Studios. You're just cracking up over here with our good friend Elvis Costello. Thank you. All right. And now for the intro. Right. Now the real intro,

because like, whatever that was. Okay. Did I mention that I have de-held for later on? I mean, I really would love to just continue with what he was saying

because like this dude right here. Wait. Look. This is not. Okay. Well, No, I think people need to hear this. Okay.

Just like you thought they needed to hear what you just said. Yes, okay. One of the reasons why he agreed to do Wise Up Ghost, he wanted to give me this gift of doing an album with you. Isn't that crazy? Well, I've seen him give you gifts like that before. Yeah, I was there on your birthday that time. Right, and you've given me gifts to.

Anyway, let's start. Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. My name is Sugar Steve. I swear to God, Steve, if you cut out what just started the show, you're fire. Fire, fire, fire, fire, fire. I'm going to put an echo on that fire. Go ahead. So, with 30-something studio albums,

dozens of other compilations and live releases, box sets and EPs, endless singles, and B-sides, with a substantial autobiography and a 45-year career. playing countless live concerts and appearing in media as diverse as singing on a commercial jingle with his father, guest hosting the David Letterman show, Austin Powers movies, and his own influential interview show spectacle. If you haven't been properly introduced to him by now, I certainly can't do it in a mere few minutes. Amir. Get it? Yeah, here. But because, Elvis' career has had such a deep connection in the lives of his fans. There is a kind of magic

to it all. And with any kind of magic, one of the main attractions is to try to figure out how the magician is doing it. So here is a very brief look at his background story and a quick summation of his discography. Born Declan McManus in London to a musical family, his dad was a professional trumpet player and singer, first in popular big bands. and then on his own. His mom worked in a record shop whose customers relied on her to have the coolest singles and albums

from the United States. Elvis moved from London to Liverpool and then back again before launching his career in London. From an early age, Elvis played guitar and by the early 70s formed a guitar duo with one of his friends. Alan Mays.

Thank you. I knew that. He worked a few non-music-related jobs And then in 1976 was signed to Stiff Records, an independent record label in London. At the time, Elvis was performing as D.P. Costello. Stiff founder and Elvis manager at the time, Jake Riviera, suggested using the name Elvis. His first four albums, 1977's My Name is True, 1978's this year's model, 1979's Armed Forces, and 1980s Get Happy, came with such a variety of intense pleasures.

the poetic and existential lyrics, the melodies, which made you play the records over and over. A lot of energy, a lot of sound. And that's something else that only musicians who inspire the most fanatic audiences have. The ability to turn all their fans into advocates of the artist, ready to lecture you about meanings and understandings, only they and the artist may explain to you. After his debut, the attractions became his recording and twilight. band for almost 10 years, and each player in that band, Steve Naive, Pete Thomas, and Bruce Thomas,

had a skill set which elevated the whole until they sounded like an unstoppable machine, cranking out literate pop, which was both political and romantic. As he broadened the sounds and styles of the music he used on his second great group of records, 1981's trust, 1981's Almost Blue, and his Jeff Emmerich produced Imperial Bedroom from 1982, Elvis displayed a degree of growth

that didn't seem possible because the first few albums were already so advanced. With 1983's Punch the Clock and 1984's Goodbye Cruel World, Elvis switched producers, if not sounds and styles, from his earlier albums. Although critiqued harshly by some, including Elvis himself.

These albums and certainly the songs not only hold up today, mostly. Wait, from one to ten, how uncomfortable are you right now? But he knows. He knows. It's a regurgitation of facts, but it's got some hard.

It has hard. Okay. You're poetic, man. I knew you were so poetic, man. But those albums, Punch the Clock and Goodbye, cruel world can now be seen to have charted a course

for the rest of his career. A willful musical curiosity and ambition, which sees him changing genres and collaborators with an energy and facility that can inspire all who witness it. Like Live Aid, 1985, all you need is love. King of America and Blood and Chocolate, both albums from 1986 hold a popular place in the hearts of diehard Elvis fans, not only because they are incredible sets of song cycles telling compelling stories, but because they marked the point most of us who love Elvis gave up trying to figure him out.

That freed us up for the guilt-free enjoyment of Elvis' next pop breakthrough, the single Veronica and the album Spike, 1989, which marked a change in record companies and a high-profile deal with Warner Brothers. Spike encompassed still greater musical territory and in general in inclusiveness,

which made room for contributors as varied as James Burton, Mark Rebot, Paul McCartney, and Alan Toussaint, to name just a few, all in service of an album which hooked a new generation of fans. Mighty Like a Rose, 1991 continued where Spike left off, with even more sophisticated arrangements and production. And from 1991 on, Elvis's discography has been a hopscotch game of going wherever his fans think he won't be, spiking his catalog with classics of what can only be called the genre of Elvis Costello. Writing for string quartets, the Juliette letters in 1993.

Numerous quote-unquote return to form albums over the years like 1994's brutal youth. Then 1996 is All This Useless Beauty and Cojack variety in album of covers in 1995. The stunning collaboration with Bert Bacharach from 1998, titled Painted from Memory, 2002's When I Was Cruel For the Stars An album with opera singer And Sophie von Otter 2003's

Marvelous piano vocal album North 2004 is the delivery man With the Impostors Shout out to Davy Farager And oh yeah Elvis released a symphony that year As well Ilsonio

I like music It went to number one On the classical charts That's it. Humanitarian and artistic efforts came together on the river in reverse, a full LP from 2006 with Alan Tucson, to bring attention to the disaster of Hurricane Katrina. An overlooked gem called Momo Fuku in 2008 with the Impostors,

2009 and 10 bring two more T-Bone Burnett productions, secret profane and sugar cane and national ransom. well that's a lot of albums I'm lying down now and was it over at that point perhaps until and I was told this by Diana Crawl

until Elvis Costello's creative fire and undernourished musical life force was reignited. Oh, where you come on? When he met Sugar Steve Mandel. Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar, Sugar,

Shug, Shugger, Shugger, Shug, Shug, Shephows. With that silent. That's a direct quote from Diana. What? No. Wow. God bless Diana Crawl. Can we start now?

No, I, it's almost time. It's almost time. This is your movie. Okay. This is where Wise Up Ghost happens. Recorded in 2012 and released in 2013, Elvis and Quest, along with the roots, got together to create Wise Up Ghost, and we'll obviously spend some time talking about that tonight. But to get current with Elvis's discography, after Wise Up Ghost came Grammy Award winning

Look Now from 2018. The first of four albums co-produced with the most wonderful producer and engineer Sebastian Chris. So that's Look Now, Hey Clockface, Spanish Model, and the album that just came out, yet another great Elvis album here in 2022. The Boy Named If. is what just dropped. QLS listeners from Electric Lady

along with Questlove. As he said, this is a very special episode of Questlove Supreme. Please welcome music icon Elvis Costello. This is the longest, like, that was 17 minutes. That's awesome. I'm really proud of you, Steve,

that I'm beaming like I'm your dad or something. And I am too. No, this is really, Steve is, Wait, I don't even want to say that. Like, Steve only likes the background, because I don't know. To me, like, Steve and I would always talk about, like, having our own radio show when we were, like, working back in Philly. And this, to me, sounds, this is, like, the equivalent of his radio shows that he used to, he used to host on his own cassettes when he was, like, 12 and 13 years old.

I've interviewed you before. Way back when I was. Yes, when he was 12. So, to see this moment happen. How are you today? I'm doing great. This is exactly what I, I, I knew what happened here.

Sorry. No, I love it. Are you kidding? You just, I mean, I, when you dub the little, little Italian organ behind as well, it's kind of just sound like my obituary. It's like, you just have to have the voice going, and then the quad, when are you going to bring the choir in? Right. You know, James Poison do a little bit.

No, I appreciate it. No, because it's a lot. It's a lot of stuff. When I said, it makes me go, like, did I do all that? You did a lot. It's too damn much. Yes. You did a lot.

That's why I tried to just sum up the past. Yeah. Well, let's start or whatever you want to talk about. Well, wait. I know we're going to nerd out on your career, but I just want to ask one question that's sort of out of the realm of anything that was just said in the last 18 minutes. What did you do today? What did I do today? Yeah, what times you wake up?

10 to 6. How does your day start? Like, what do you do? It's mostly shaken, like, a couple of 15-year-olds out of bed, different amounts of persuasion. Oh, so you're still dead. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They've got to get on a school bus at five to seven.

So that's, you know, it's a dream. So you take your kids to school? No, I take them down at the door and they get on the bus. Oh, okay. Yeah. Not bad do your kids know your Elvis Costello? Do they get it or you're just more dead? Oh, no, they get that something that's been happening because they came and watched the TV show the other night

and they know what I'm doing. Okay, so they hear me. I mean, the thing is, the last two. years, nobody's been able to get away from anybody. You know, I mean, even if they know, they've been on the road with both of us. Right. Since they were six months old, they, they remember it from when they were four. But when I said, hey, this summer, we might go on the road with mom.

That'd be great, you know, they're good at traveling. And they're 15, 2007. They were born in 2006. Yeah. December 2006. So they are, you know, they'll be 16 extra summers. So they're not long had a birthday. Okay.

And they're great lads. And, you know, I have in the amount I've traveled in my life, and we all have traveled. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have traded anything about these last two years, except the fear of friends and my family. Yeah. You know, far away. You're concerned about them and you respond to an emergency or something. Right.

But in terms of the time we had the four of us, that's unbeatable, you know. And they got used to like, why is Dad out in the garden shouting into that microphone? That's because I was making a record, you know. I worked out how to do it. and we all had to work out how to do it. I learned to play the electric violin. That was a worrying sound, you know. Are they musically inclined?

Like, are they... They got music within them, and one of them is... One of them told me that, you know, he said, I'm going to take piano this year, and I said, well, you already read music, right? Because you played trombone for a year in jazz band. He said, oh, no, I wasn't reading.

I memorized it, so, you know... Oh, okay. So there's some of mom and the sum of dad. You know, I can't cite read, I can't write it now. I can, you know, but I can't read it back. What's that epigenetics like where your dad is Elvis Costella and your mom's dying across? I don't know. My dad's a dentist.

Well, you're an engineer. If you go to school, if you're taught my sisters like I was, they just had such a complete conviction that I could sing when I was a little boy. Because my dad was on the radio every week. They were convinced and that was fine when it was five that drove me out of class and maybe sing for the priest or whoever came to the school. But when you're 10, you hate that, you know. That's the worst.

So my parents never made me do it. So my dad being insane never occurred to me. I was going to do it until I was, I don't know, 17. Can you sing though because there was singing around you and you sang from an early age? That I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, I can only remember music playing.

I mean, I can remember, I can remember being eye to eye with this. There's this record player called a Decca Decahle, and I had this big red on light on the front of it, like one of those ones with a grill, you know, like a honeycomb on the front with a record player, like with a lid on it. And I just remember that looking at that like looking at any toy on the ground, you know, so I must only be crawling around.

And I can remember it. I'm not imagining it. I've got pictures. you know, where it was in the place we lived. So I guess my mother must have been playing that a lot. Back then, let's say when your father was in his prime, singers had to actually not only be able to sing. He's a way better singer than I am.

I mean, he had really good voice. But he was also a good mimic. So the funny thing about my dad was he sang in a kind of, the band was model on Glenn Miller. It was the same kind of music, sweet band really. It wasn't a jazz group. He'd been a bebop trumpet player in Birkenhead,

the time where he was born. Came to London to try and make a living in jazz. Like a lot of jazz musicians found that difficult. When my mother and him got married and then I came along, he took a job that was better paying, which was singing, because he could sing. And so he had to sing whatever was in the hip parade. You didn't get to choose.

And to sing whatever was in the charts. Now, that was fine in the 50s for somebody just singing a ballad. I got pictures of my dad when I was big bow ties like Frank Sinatra used to wear in the 40s you know everybody just followed the trends

and he wanted to play like different people when he was playing he wanted to play like Dizzy then he wanted to play like Clifford Brown you know and then he got in this dance band that used to just play

what was in the charts well what was in the charts by 1963 64 was a huge range of music that wasn't really designed for a 16 piece sweet man to play but they did it nonetheless

because that was how music filtered through to us we didn't have 12 hour a day let alone 24 hour a day pop radio just that's why we had pirate radio because that was a revolution that brought like the continuous pop music to English listeners my dad was part of a process that preceded that

which was interpreting those songs so he would have to sing a song like it wouldn't matter whether it was the latest song by Tom Jones or the latest song by the Who or the latest song by the Four Tops or the searchers. You know, he had to do all those songs.

That was crazy, I know, but I mean, he didn't get any choice. It was whatever was an hit break. So you're saying that there was somewhat a big band scene over there, but was there really a jazz, like a hard bop jazz scene over there? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's musicians that he wanted to, and were some of his friends when they first came from Liverpool, were the people that founded the modern jazz scene.

And he tried to get the gig with Ronnie Scott. Everybody wanted that gig. Ronnie formed the club. The other musicians of that generation. So Ronnie Scott was an actual person. Yeah, no, Ronnie Scott was a tennis saxophone player and founded the club. And he was like one of the people that led the way. And there's one or two of the musicians.

Another great Tanner player called Tubby Hayes. He came to New York and was accepted. Obviously, some English musicians made it into the American scene. But there were so many great musicians here. Marum up Parliament. Ireland, the piano player. She's from England. So, you know, there's people like that that came over,

they came and they wanted to play with the great people on 52nd Street. But it was difficult enough to get in the door in London because this music wasn't that popular. And popular music was, you could turn the radio on when I was a kid and it sounded like it was 1935. I mean, the music was still like a little kind of string group playing, the melody of something, but it wouldn't be anything like the record. So there was a, there was so little music.

And that was known as mainstream radio then? Yeah, we only had one channel playing music on the BBC. We just had the light program. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman,

Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, And dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice

podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green.

is the author of The Fault and Our Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Dan Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So what I know is Northern Seoul, like when did that break out? Northern Seoul was kind of like a, that was really a club thing that happened late 60s, I think, mid to late 60s. The thing that happened all simultaneously was the pirate radio happened, and that changed the fact that we could get the pop music played by the original artists, not interpreted in these slightly square ways. And the TV shows that played pop music, HIPAA. One week,

Ready, Steady Go, the Friday night show, just had the Motown review on and like, just blew everybody's minds because suddenly all these people with like style and, you know, coordinated moves and everything. You've got to think, before that, it's four lumpy lads

in beetle suits and their hairbrush forward for 20 minutes before the show. You know, they just thought to do that. Okay. And they're doing, I don't know, fortune teller or something by Aunt Tucson. The next thing you've got David Ruffin or Marvin Gay, you know, it was a bit of a mind-blower.

Obviously, you could hear the bands. You can hear the musicians who they were listening to. They copied everything off records, and records took about six weeks to get to England. I just met this weekend. I was in L.A., and one of the main cameramen from Ready, Steady Go, happened to come to an event of mine. So it's kind of weird in the last month and a half.

Well, I've been talking to the Shindig people, air quotes, talking. That's all I can see now. I can't tell you the context. But I've been learning a lot about how the pop scene got developed over in the UK. And, you know, I'm learning these things. Totally different, totally different timeline, totally different availability. It wasn't commercial, for one thing. So it didn't have that drive in it, you know, it didn't have that.

the same thing driving it. We had commercial television. We had only two channels. When, say at the time the Beatles started, there were only two TV channels. BBC one and BBC two? No, BBC and ITV. So BBC and one commercial channel.

Okay. So they both had pop shows, but they were kind of square and they were based on different things. And then they started BBC two and they would have jazz programs and that was kind of amazing actually because they'd get really good people on them.

You'd see Errol Gahn. or he'd see Oscar Peterson. There's a lot of footage. And the BBC went very good at keeping it. So I don't know how much they went over a lot of things. So things I saw as a kid, not memories of. I learned that they would watch the... They would wipe the tapes, you know.

But, I mean, you know, if you saw something like Hendrix when he was on the Lulu show and the weak cream broke up and he just played at Sonsarano of your love, he said, we're going to stop playing this rubbish, which was Hey Joe, which was his hit. And I saw that live and it just blew my mind. It was like, hey, television just went out of control, you know. Right.

Because you remember this is at a time when on the radio, when I was a kid, they used to make the news reader put on a dinner jacket to read the news on the radio. They had to be formally dressed to read the news. Don't ask me why. Maybe it made of them to think that what I was saying, this is the BBC. They should see us right now. Yeah, they were just, yeah. So it was a whole completely different world.

And when, you know, you can imagine Hard Day's Night was a film with a group talking in their ordinary voices. Right. Not like they're in show business, but they seemed like they just were lads from Liverpool. And the American pop movies were mostly Elvis Presley. And they were just involving Elvis as a truck driver, Elvis as a racing driver, Elvis as a helicopter pilot, whatever it was. I saw.

Elvis on a surfboard. You know, like that. I got to tell you, I saw a jailhouse rock for the first time this Sunday. That's a good movie. Well, they, the, okay, so in context, Quinn Tarantino has a, what we would call a grind house in L.A. It's called the New Beverly. And basically, Quinn Tarantino purchased this place because he wanted to recreate what movie theaters were like back in the 70s when he was a kid. So it's only 35 millimeter or 16.

millimeter print. And it's weird things like, you know, a kung fu flick, science fiction film, old Western or old classic or Italian noir, whatever. And he graciously transferred my movie, Summer of Soul, to 35mm. And it was done in double feature. So on Sunday, the double feature was Elvis's jailhouse rock and Summer of Soul. So I saw jailhouse. I've seen that scene before, but I've never watched Jail House Rock and it just hit me that I think with the exception of

is there a film called Blue Hawaii or Blue. Yeah. Blue Hawaii. Yeah, I think that's the only Elvis film that I've seen. Now I want to watch them all. Are you sure about that? Just the format

the format of this film is like there's any excuse to make what videos basically like to, you know. All right. We're also going to rabbit holes out of it so let's go back to you were taking us to your beginnings it's nearly impossible for me to stay to pick up the guitar when I was 13 without referring to the fact that I know because I've read

you know your book so I know that we have this one and we talked about it before we have this one you know so key similarity despite all the different experiences is the example of your father playing music weekend we got whatever it is is very different and it and it gives you gives you the sense of it being both magical, and you get an idea of the mundane. Like, I remember really going in with my dad to the radio studio when I was on the school holiday. I'd go with him in the morning,

and it'd be a bunch of people reading the paper, and I think still smoking in the theatre. I remember them as having cigarettes. Maybe they didn't. But they were definitely just reading the paper, and then the conductor would come, the band leader, and then bring it to attention to their rehearse. Then a group would come in and rehearse,

and that group would be somebody from the charts. So it'd be the Hollies or Englebird Humperdink or whoever was on the show, singing a couple of songs. Inevitably, if that's your perspective of it, it changes it just being a kid waiting for your favorite record to come on the radio or your favorite record to come on a couple of TV shows a week that played the music you liked. The fact that my dad was in the front room learning the songs that I loved, like the first record I ever owned was, please, please me. He gave it to me because I asked him for it. but it was a advanced copy that he was learning off a piece of sheet music

so he could sing it on the radio that week. The Beatles second hit. Oh, okay. I see. So he's singing, please, please me in the front room. And then my folks split up not long after that. So then he would just give me the records. He'd come around and give me a stack of singles.

I was going to ask, what was the first record that you remember buying with your own money? Fame at last. Was it a EP? by Georgie Fame and it was pretty cool because it had one song by Lambert Hendricks and Ross one by Moses Allison but it was a it was a Willie Dixon song one song that was by Louis Jordan and one song by Ray Charles but there was

that's who he was covering so that was a pretty good education for all songs a 21 year old organ player from Lancashire they were nap for a nine-year-old kid that was a lot of information to get all on one record because he I wonder what Louis Jordan song it was. Oh, it was a Saturday night first ride? No, no, it was way after that. It was a later one. It was a point of no return.

It was a Gofflin King song. It was the 60s. Oh, wow. It was a late later. Later, yeah. Okay. And Georgie did Gene McDaniels and Magasanta Maria. And he had, he was hippie, knew Eddie Jefferson.

And he knew a lot of music that the other organ players didn't know, like Stevie Winwood, the new R&B. Right. All those guys all knew. all the great R&B singers. But Georgie was unusual in that he sang like Mos Allison. He sang like a cross between John Hendrix and Mos Allison. He said, you know, you see him walking this band.

He had that kind of deadpan way of singing, you know. Have you seen John Hendrickson, God damn? He could sing, like, he could sing John Hendricks music just great. He could sing like things like, he could sing like, Down for the Count and Little Darlane and those things, the Neil Hefty things. He could sing the bassy things. He sang with a big band.

He was a really great musician. For our listeners out there, if you can peep, it's a later John Hendricks song, but there's a, okay, so if you're familiar with, I've talked about this on the show before, the idea of vocalis, vocalise is where jazz lyricists would put words to jazz songs that never had lyrics before. And so John Hendricks does this really amazing version of Miles Davis's Freddie Freeloader, and he does it with Al Jaro, George Benson, and Bobby McFerrin, and basically the four of them with their very unusual jazzy voices,

verbatim recreate all the solos or Miles' original Freddie Freeloto with the lyrics, which is the hardest thing to do. I mean, they notated each. Like, I've played the original and their version simultaneously, and they followed every lick of those solos and put lyrics to it and a narrative to a story about a guy loves alcohol. But anyway, I digress if you're into John Hendrix, that is definitely.

Well, the song on that EP that they did, which was Lambert Hendricks and Ross, because Annie Ross also. Yeah. Another Scottish import to the jazz scene, you know. Whoa, I did not know that. Yeah. I thought she was American.

No, she wasn't American. She was, I think, Scottish. Yeah, fuck this. No, I'm sorry. You all need your... No, seriously, like, you just invented your new podcast. Like, the two of you fucks could talk the fucking ever. And it's all great.

But the problem is there's like 10 references every five seconds. So it's like for people trying to figure out what the heck... What we're talking about. Give it that one. They're going to have to... You know how you can turn a podcast down. To like half speed or like, you know. I do that actually.

I mean, you guys are ridiculous. Honestly, it's ridiculous. No, take over, Steve, forgive me. I am going to take over. I know that Elvis wants to talk a little bit about Summer of Soul. I do. I know that you saw. I mean, I have to thank you for more than that.

You know, Summer of Soul had to come out when it came, when it was shot. It put her had a corrective. I think for the way people sort of regarded is it and I mean I remember going to see Woodstock and that was our first glimpse of a festival you know I was living in the north of England you know it rains all the time like constantly it seems like for years it seemed in those days and we just thought well that's going to be great one of these days we'll have one of these festivals and everybody all the girls will take their clothes off and we'll all slide around the mud and all look great you see summer sol it was kind of for one thing it was in the city right

So right there you kind of had whole families out of it. You didn't have this one generation of people working with it. Wait, time out. I've got to ask you a question. So you're telling me that in 1969, Redding, Lastonbury. They hadn't happened. Oh, wait.

So I'm under the impression that America was laid to the table. No, no, no. And that Europe had been thrown festivals all that time. They were showing festivals where they used to kind of like hit each other on the head with a bladder on a stick, you know, or like jump around to maypole and stuff back in the medieval times, but they didn't have like rock festivals. No, they didn't. I mean, they had gatherings.

So when did festival cultures start in? I think Glastonbury is, the first one is 70 or 71. Wait, what? Yeah. I mean, one of the big festivals that everybody remembers was Bath in 70. Yeah. But it was a pretty small festival. And then we didn't really have any big gathering, like nothing on the scale of Woodstock.

I mean, maybe in Europe they had them. I don't remember hearing about them, though. I didn't, wasn't paying that much attention. But we saw, so we saw the film Woodstock. Right. And then I, I was talking to some people the other day about, I went to the Bickershow Festival in 72. I was already playing then in Liverpool.

And I remember did a gig on the Friday night, and it came out and it was raining. Like they said cats and dogs, you know, just like, looks like a lot of needles dancing on the pavement. And it never occurred to me. that it would be slightly damp in the field I was going to outside 30 miles away and then got on a train the next morning with just a blanket and boots no sleeping bag no tent and I didn't even think about it I just thought I'll just sleep under the stars rum

oh god and it was like you know it was like a wave back from the lines in the first world war when I got there it was like you had to wade through feet of mud and yeah it was miserable and cold and I and they were selling these giant like messenger bags human-sized messenger bags and that's the only thing you could that stopped us from all getting hypothermia and then listen to captain beef hard at about three o'clock in the morning and the next day the Grateful Dead played for four hours you know it was like and that was glamour you know that was about as glamour and had trench foot when I came home you know it was like it was it was nothing like we imagined so seeing summer of soul and seeing a festival happening in a city right okay It's over weekends, so it's like it's a collection of festivals, really.

But with the whole... Yeah, but I mean, the thing that's so great is the fact that you've got those interviews with the little kids that were there that were witnesses to this stuff. And there's a whole corrective to like what that all of those people meant, apart from the fact that you had the jazz and the gospel people and then, you know, all the little vignettes like Mahalia Jackson handing the mic to Mavis. you know, I mean, the parts of it that just, I don't know whether I'm reading into this, but like having said, like, 65 or something, when the Motown review came over and the fact that

you were, you know, in the same way as people say, are you Beatles or Stones, are you, as we said, Temes or Topps, you know. Oh, either Timitations or Tap. Yeah, you can't like them both, you know. Right. You're stupid, really, because I liked them both, you know. Right. But so David Ruffin, when he comes out and he's.

He's like the kind of return in Prince, you know. Right. And then he's sort of fragile, you know? It was a curious look. It's a curious because he, because they love him. When he comes out, and then his act kind of looks slightly stiff. Yeah. Because he's used to playing much more.

He's not, he's also used to four people being. Yeah, because it's right after he left, right? So it's like, yeah. Yeah. And then guess what? You know, the band that everybody's shocked by is fifth dimension, a completely kill. Right.

And they're kind of seen as kind of square. And then when you see them, they're not square at all. They're fucking great. But everything's great. And then you get the vision from the future. You get like the visitation from the future with Sly. And I mean, we just, if that at all, I mean, Sly at Woodstock, it's so far in advance of everything else on the bill.

I mean, it's so far the best thing on it. It's the best music. Even Jimmy, it's like by the end of it, it's like, there's nobody there watching him. The big moment is Sly. But if people had seen that in the context of all of it, can you imagine how different things would have been? That Stevie Wonder right before he makes talking book?

You know, like, what the hell? It's all these things, you know? That's literally, like, that's why I made it, because, I mean, at the time when it was offered to me, Prince's autobiography was out, and he was talking about, like, being an 11-year-old watching Santana do this guitar solo, and he's like, that's what I want to do when I get older.

and like I'm really, he was discouraged from doing music because his dad was like, he'll never be as good as me. So already that chip on the shoulder, I got to be better than my dad thing happens. And his dad was a nurturing type, but his dad takes him to see Woodstock and through Santana's set,

Prince is like, that's what I want to do. And so for me, you know, luckily I got there because, well, again, epigenetics, like my parents coming into that situation in the world where your parents are musically inclined, you can't help but reach this destination, but I just wondered the hundreds of millions of people who

could have been affected by this. And again, to hear you say it, because in my mind, I'm thinking that America got the festival idea from over in Europe. I don't think so. No, I think it was a spontaneous, you know, I mean, there's right, there's, you know, when you will look at

jazz on the summer's day, you know, and you see that and you see Chuck Berry come out and you watch the band behind him like it's an all-star band behind him and they're really a band that are designed at back Louis Armstrong you know they right and they're just looking it is Jack Teagarden who played trombone with Los Armstrong I mean he's just looking at Chuck Barry like what what thing is he doing here because I guess that guitar sounds like 12 times louder than any guitar and and really it's not that loud but but the differences in the music is so great and that's but that looks pretty

That's pretty kind of still like an, it's not really like a festival. It's like an open-air show. It's still like a garden party. It's a bunch of people up in Newport, like looking at this. It's great that we got it. Newport folk festival is the same. You get a bunch of bohemians and then you get Bob Dylan comes out and it's totally like a revolution. But I don't think there's anything in England that's the Cambridge Folk Festival and things like that.

I don't remember there being anything that we could go to like that. Well, this shows me that. Woodstock, the movie, is the legend that's set people's thoughts about festivals and people's thoughts about hippies and people's thoughts about America and people's thoughts about those acts that played. So, yeah, as my point. And we saw all those movies, you know, we saw Easy Rider with all that, with all the music, with Hendricks and Steppenwolf, you know, and that seemed like whatever the movie was about, whatever it represented, those movies were things that people, or have you seen that? Because it was an ex, because it was an ex, because it was.

naked people in it and drugs. So those things, the country was pretty buttoned up. People think it's like, oh, it's all happening. They're swinging 60s and all that. But that's all just happening on the films that they made pop films in the 50s, like on the Elvis model. They put the star of the day in the movie, made up some daft thing. What's this one about?

Oh, he's got a race horse. Okay, well, this one's about a racehorse. This guy's got a chip shop, whatever it is. You know, they make up some story and stick a couple of songs in it. then it all changes again. So the idea of a bunch of people getting together and putting music on, and I mean, I mean, what's the name of the guy this, the MC?

Tony Lawrence, yeah. God, he's like, you could make a whole, you know, I said to Jeff Jones, you know, I went to the Get Back Premier in London, and I sat next one away from Glenn John. Wait, you went to the Get Back premiere. How long was the movie? It was like a 100-minute cut with an introduction

of Peter Jackson and one of, one of the days of the 18th day of the recording. Have you seen this yet? This is where I gotta cut you guys off. There's no one letting you talk about that documentary because that's the next hour. Let me, I've already decided this shit. Let me just say this one thing though,

because it pertains to quest. Yeah. I mean, I think there was an actual article in the New York Times about Glenn John saying that he was kind of like had it with people ringing him up going, what about your clothes and get back? Because Glenn is wearing like the greatest outfits. Yeah.

He's the most stylish man in the movie. Right. Likewise, you could have had a summer of sole line of clothing from the emcees. He's got the greatest clothes. Right, right. No matter who's on the stage, he's like, he's got an outfit almost as good

and nearly always like right for their style too. It's like he dressed. He knew exactly who he's going to come out and I'm going to introduce. I'm going to be right for that, you know. It's like he's given a lot of thought to it. It's wonderful. No, he changed for every act that was that.

That was fantastic. So do you want to ask your first question? So that was the introduction. This first hour of... Whatever. But I did see Get Back. It's freaking mesmerizing, obviously, if you're a Beatles fan. There's so much...

And even if you're not, actually, I think, if it... I think, yeah, sir. If you just like people, you know, if you just like people, it's pretty... Yeah, but if you're a Beatles fan, it's like... Oh, yeah. Anyway, for me, I think this is where the story begins with regards to the two of you. It's the year 2000, and it's right after Voodoo had come out in... in 1999. But for me, the story starts with a Vanity Fair article, more of a list.

The Dictionary. That came out that Elvis put out in Vanity Fair in the year 2000. It was essentially his 500 favorite albums or most recommended albums, something along those lines. And 500 records he had to hear before he died, I think. Yeah. It was very ominous. That article started my friendship with Lisa Robinson.

Because I was like, I want to do that. I could do that. You know, so we sort of... Yeah, I don't know how I came across it, but my first thought was... You're not a subscriber. I'm gonna... I'm gonna tell you how he came across. No, literally, it was a big deal that Vanity Fair did a music issue.

Mm-hmm. Was just unheard of at the time. And I remember, I think I brought 10 copies of that. Okay, I'm gonna tell you how that article and that specific issue saved Annie Lieberwitz's life. Are you ready for this? It's a voodoo connection. So my publicist gives me a call. We get, the roots get word that we're going to be one of the subjects in the music issue. And that Annie Leewoods is going to shoot us, which is the highest honor at the time. There's a photographer that's going to shoot you. It has to be Annie. So of course, I'm the

point person for the roots or whatever. And, you know, I talk to her on the phone. And she's in Harris right now and she's shooting maybe three or four artists that like she's traveling Europe like getting them and whatnot. So this is mid 2000. We're on tour with DeAngelo. I also think that the first leg of the voodoo tour is done. We're about to start rehearsals for the second leg of the voodoo tour. And all I remember was, okay, so we had maybe two or three weeks off of which I scheduled time with Annie Leewards to do the shot with the roots. And something happens. on DeAngelo's end. Could be anything.

Right. No, no. Yeah, it was, you know, like we missed a deadline or missed whatever it was, whatever the set date was supposed to be. We had to kick the can to the next week and then the next week. And then when we kicked it the third time, I told Alan Leeds and the guys like, look, I got a photo shoot with Annie Leibowitz in Philadelphia. I can't do that day. But it was like our only day to rehearse. It was one of the things where a DeAngelo happened.

So what winds up happening is I don't want to lose this shot. And I hit my publicist up and we hit her up and we're just apologizing profusely. And she's like, look, look, it's cool. We can handle it. Matter of fact, I'll tell you what, this will give me a week to, I think most deaf was coming to Paris. She's like, it gives me a chance to shoot him and do other two other artists. and then I'll hop on the plane and come back and then we could do you on this particular day,

which was great. So we have that settled. Turns out, and this is where DeAngelo Isms saved her life, had we kept that original arrangement, Annie Leavowitz would have been on that last Concord flight that crashed and killed all the passengers. Wow.

So in the week that she decided, to stay for most deaf, she avoided being on that flight. You know, thank God for that. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. And the epilogue is that I told DeAngelo what happened. And he says, who's Annie Leavitt was? And I was like, dude, she's the most epic photographer of all time, dude.

And he's like, man, did he fare? And he pulls out a Jet magazine that he's on the front car. of this is what I'm about. Right. Well, now I know how I found the article because it was you. Yeah. I was on that tour. I had 10 of those.

But yeah, I had 10 of those issues because it was a big deal. I still have it because I used to use it. I was like, this is the ultimate record store tool to have. Absolutely. I purchased many and now I'm off that list. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. and he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Sliced podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen. to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86.

I was nine years old. I watched every game. and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football,

is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history,

it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So on that list was Voodoo. That's the first time that I knew that you Elvis knew about him, Quest, and about DiAngelo,

and I'd heard that record. So how did Voodoo get on your radar? How did you get your hands on it? I have no idea. I don't remember anybody. I think I just, you know, like anything, something filled us through, and then you listen to it, and it's great.

Maybe I read about it somewhere. Well, maybe the video. I mean, there was an instant buzz. What year is this? 2000. In 2000, see, I lived up on a hill in Ireland, still in those days. I didn't see any,

I didn't have any cable television. The story that I've always gotten from people, there's always a younger person in someone's life. That's sort of like, I think this is an album that's going to resonate with you because this feels like an era that you loved. And if you're a fan of Stevie Wonder, if you're a fan of that sort of pure soul, then there's no way of this record didn't hit your radar. I think it's probably that recognition,

but that's kind of also common to a bunch of other records that are probably, for one thing, I had no idea you were going to ask me. probably be surprised by some of the records that are at arm on that list because you could have asked me three days later and it would have got a different 500 you know right so but i mean i remember thinking there i was almost the only thing i really calculated it was i didn't feel obliged to put records on that i knew a lot of other people really held in high regard like there's no records by the doors because i can't stand the doors why can't you stand the doors i know i know i knew that about him but i don't i can't figure out why i just never spoke

to me. It just never did. I don't know why. I can, I like a lot of them. Was it too pretentious or two? I don't like. It's okay. You don't have to say. I don't know. It's sort of like. It's kind of cool that you don't like to do. Yeah, no. And people always think I would because of the organ and, you know, and everything. But I just, and I think they're all, sure, they're all refined players in their own way. And when I, break on through to the other side, I like that one record. That's the only record by the doors I like. The first. Right. From Riders at the storm? Break on. No. No. No. I mean, I mean, My friend played on it.

I was like, you know, Jerry Sheff played on that. He was in my band. But no, no. At Led Zeppelin, there's no Led Zeppelin records on that. I literally never own one. Really? There's no Pink Floyd records. Whoa.

Because I only own two Pink Floyd discs, and they're both singles. See Emily play and on the lane. I've never even listened to Dark Side of the Word. I've no idea what the wall sounds like. Wait, is there any, is there any, homegrown act that you dug? Homegrown? Well, I mean, just from, I mean,

from England. Yeah. The Beatles. The who? The Beatles. Oh, I forgot. The kinks. The small faces, the small faces for me was the next group after the Beatles.

It was like, not the stones. It was the small faces. Really? Tin soldier, you know, all or nothing. All of those records, yeah. But the kinks? The kinks? Absolutely the kinks.

Right. Only up to a certain period. Tell this man, please. And the same thing, it's really selective. It's anything about musical choices. Like I said, it would have been a different 500 of being. You could probably pull one up there. What's with that record?

I don't even remember saying that should have been on the list. I would still put voodoo on there now. But I don't know what else is on there that would surprise. And I don't know. That was such a relevatory. I think what I said is right, though. I think it's right. I think it speaks to some continuity.

And you see, this is a part of the, thing that comes from our inability to hear everything is the things that we did hear in England really went deep. So nobody said, when you asked me about Northern Seoul like two hours ago, you know, that's an organic kind of movement to kind of dance to records that nobody else had. Like there's a particular kind of beat. A lot of the Northern Soul records are not from Detroit. They're from Chicago. There are a lot of Chicago things. I don't know why it was, but maybe that slightly

different sound. Motown, as we didn't even call it Motown, we called it Tamla. You say, if you got the new Tamla record. Right. We said, what do you listen to? I listen to Tamla. And it's Tamla.

And all we had were these singles, or we had compilations, Motown Chartbusters compilations. Volume three, particular is a particular good one, you know, and what is Sol, which was an Atlantic Records compilation. Right, I have it. And tighten up two, which is a reggae rock steady compilation. Those, you can have a party with those, and we didn't have a lot of other records.

And because the radio... So you just play those over and over? Yeah, but those, that was pretty good. You could play those round and round. And I think that's, it made you really kind of like go, behind a painted smile, you know, this whole heart of mine, heard it through those records, but we didn't know the Gladys Knight

version of heard it through the Grapevine version. We knew the Marvin version. So all these records, and then people got into the more esoteric thing, and then they started dancing at the Wigan Casino, and this kind of slightly looser beat that they had on those Chicago records, Major

Lance, and these kind of Curtis Mayfield produced records, they're not like the Curtis 70s records, these are things that sound like they're imitating Motown, And not quite getting it right even. You know, they're not on the same level of musicianship as the Motown rhythm section. But people, for whatever reason, it was a particular kind of BPM. It was a particular kind of rhythm.

Way faster. Faster. And this crazy dancing that they did and the crazy clothes you've seen the, you've surely seen the documentary about Nord and Sold. You know, it's a whole thing. And it's totally based in the north. And it's nothing to do. And the suburbs where I lived, we were rock. Motown or Tamla.

You know, these, and then I went to Liverpool in 1970, and they asked me what kind of music you like. I said, I like Otis Renning and Lee Dorsey. You like song music? I said, yeah. And Tamla, I'm like, that's for Divis, they would say. Divis means like, you know, it's like idiots like that music. Really?

Because it was, I don't know why. So what were they into? They were into kind of Pink Floyd and, like, all this prog rock and heavy rock and so i ended up like in the grateful dead because nobody would nobody would go with me on that because so well what's it you don't you're not a big prog rock guy but you like the dead the dead are not a prog rock well they no no not in 1970 70 70 70 well wait hang on we could go down a whole other robin because i honestly thought i was just going to say one thing and he's out of here but now you you stuck me and i do this with almost every guest

guest the house with your entire record collection is on fire you can only save five records and they can't be greatest hits or box sets all right

can they be 45s or LPs LPs I mean more records Well he might want his Please please me 45 you know Well I don't mean the sentimental saving No no No what five albums

Non-greatest hits Non-Live unless it's a special live record, like, volume three, James Brown at the Apollo. Can't be a compilation record, can't be a compilation record? It can't be a compilation record?

That's not fair, though. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. No, I'm just saying some artists, you don't know their albums because it's like so old. I'm just trying to figure out, like, what is the canon of original albums? Yeah, but you would, I think if you really had a chance and you knew where they lived,

how could you ask him this question? If you knew that you were, if you knew that you were household on fine, you're going to lose everything, you'd pull the rarest records that you knew you couldn't replace. You wouldn't like, it's a difficult question because I would definitely, I still have my original mono revolver. Two-parter.

All right. Okay, so I'd pick that one. Wow. Five the rarest albums that you own. Yeah. And five of the seminal, okay. Mono revolver. No, okay, but all right, what, five of the rarest albums you own, what are they?

I don't know that I, I don't really know that I have rare records in the same way as you do. I mean, I think at this stage, I'll move some many times. You give a mono revolver? A mono revolver I definitely want. Okay. Sound venture by Georgia fame means a lot to me. Okay. Not so easy to get.

From later on, I... What's the most expensive record you sold out for? Oh. I actually probably a 78. You know, some of the 78s come in like four or five hundred. Are you, do you have a 78s collection? Because that's a whole rabbit hole. That's a whole rabbit hole.

That's a whole rabbit hole. Yeah. No, I... Should I accept those? Because people all the time... No, they're not real records? Don't go into that world, dude. Well, I mean, I'm not really interested in 78s,

but, you know, like, old great-grandmothers are passing away, and their nieces and nephews are like, Yo, Quest, I don't know what to do this, but... It's an endless... They have, like, 300 of these. No, you... So I should take it... Should tell you why?

Because acoustic records, acoustic records before there was electrical recording, think about it, you're, like, literally staring to the horn of the victroller. and you can go right through that little hole into the room they're playing. It's one generation away, isn't it? It's one generation closer than electrical recording.

Wow. All right, so the answer is yes, I should accept. Lewis Armstrong on an electrical recording, absolutely. But his collections are pretty, he's got a collection of collections already. I'm sure. I know, I've seen the picture. He's got a storage room for his storage rooms.

Yes. Yeah. So what's, you don't know the most expensive? I never, in the way of collecting records, It's always been about what's in the groove. It's never been about the catalog number or the funny label or this is a different sleeve. I never cared about any of that stuff. The other reason is because when I first came to America, after the first trip,

the handle fell off my suitcase on the way home because it was so full of records I'd bought in secondhand stores. I used to come with an empty suitcase, no one I'd fill it up. And the whole joy of it was like, oh, here's a whole album by Bobby Blueblank. Here's a whole album by the Lovin Brothers. You know, I have maybe one track on a compilation. All those, here's a whole T-Bomb Walker record. You know, whatever. You were a compilation guy.

Well, no, that's how we got to know about stuff because of getting the Motown records or stacks and Atlantic collections. Right. I didn't have a whole record of William Bell until it came to America. Then you could find them everywhere. You could find, like, great records, whatever it was.

You know, it's weird. Detroit Spinners as we called them, you know? Right. You could, I had singles on the Spenners, but then you could just go buy albums of them, you know? So you know what's weird now? Philip Wynn, you know, it's like, yes. You know what's weird? Now I am collecting and paying top dollar for UK acts that would cover American stuff.

Like, I'm going through a kits phase now where I'm big into covering. songs. So there will be, again, like party records, the idea of doing a compilation with just straight up hits that you could put on at a party and let play all the way through and then put on site to and let it play all the way. So there would be these bands from like from Liverpool pans from Brighton, especially in Brighton. There's one group with the name Brighton in it, but they're not known. But it's like their cheap imitation of James Browns, I Got the Feeling, or whatever was hitting at that time like science he'll deliver what what kind of period of time

is this? 66 to 76 it would be like the K-tel of whatever shout out to Ketel where did they come from hey before I mean this is a thing I know this sounds like I'm bringing my dad in this all the time but this is what he did that's what I'm saying yeah he did it in the early

60s I mean you I don't know whether you know this but the beginning of pirate radio there was the guy Ryan O'Reilly everybody knows about that name is an Irish guy who's found of radio Caroline, his partner was an Australian guy who had the other pirate radio ship which was which was anchored in the estuary of the Thames broadcast into London. Okay.

Now this guy had a crazy scheme and this is true. He thought that he could cover records, make them cheaply at nine in the morning in downtime. And the record, the song was because he'd come out of publishing, he believed that he could have those records top the, the original versions. So those are the Super Kitch versions because they are no for no copies

and he thought he could get away without paid anything but publishing. I guarantee. You see this is genius. It was like, I course it failed and the plan failed, you know, because people saw through it. Okay, so in Portland, Oregon,

there's a writer who wrote the encyclopedia of Kitch Records or whatever. Yeah. He sold me. It's like the most I've ever paid for a record collection. But even the story was like, wait, you guys, you know this is not the original stuff, right? These are like cheap imitations or whatever. But for me, the same drum break intro for superstition of Stevie is just as valuable if another drummer did it.

Like, it's still a drum break. A drum break is a drum break as a drum break. Plus, there weren't that many musicians in England playing on these records. So when my dad would go and sing on these records, the guitar player would be Vic Flick, the same guy to play the James Bond thing. It would be that guy. It would be the same guy that would be playing on the legit session anyway. They did these things and they paid them cash and they sold them at the supermarket. They sold them at the gas station or the petrol station we called them.

And they were 45 EPs. These were before the albums that you probably know from the, you know, they were later called Top of the Pops because that was the name of the BBC Weekly Show. It's a whole subculture of music. We used to get them even when we were on the road first. We'd get our records done in Sweden where they would. know any of the words, they just make up a bunch of nonsense words to what my lyrics. It's sort of half Swedish, half English.

Wait, for the record, what is your dad's name? Ross MacManus. And that's the, that's his stage name. He had a bunch of names because he was a different person on every track. Dude, okay. You'd never find him. So I have 7,000 pieces of just a bunch of bands from Europe covering American funk songs and American soul songs and rock songs or whatever.

But also, the other thing, Chris, is, that there was five to six weeks between an American release. So no matter how fast they got that, the publisher got that song over, what was going to happen first was sheep music travel faster than records. Right. So if you had Billy J. Kramer or somebody, some good-looking guy out of Liverpool,

he could get a cover of a new Bert Baccarack song before the American version could come out. Quite often you'd see two songs on the charts, the same song done by, you know, the English cover version. Right. And then there'd be a ghost record, as you might say, the ones we're talking about. So there'd be that version playing on a pirate radio station.

There'd be the local English group like Silla Black singing, anyone out of heart. Don Warwick hates her for having done that. Really? Still is going all about it. Now after, next time you see Deon, say Silla Black and see what the reaction you get. I can't wait. No, she's still mad at Silla. And then, of course, what would happen was the version would come out.

The American version, people would notice it was a little slicker, maybe. The Bronclist was better. Certainly the standard of production, I think, generally, was better, a standard of arrangement. There's a big difference in the sound of an English horn section, American horn section, different timbre. I could tell you, two bars, whether it's an American or English record, if there's brass on it, you know.

Well, I'm going to blow your mind now because now, the inferior covers is what would attract a hip-hop producer today. Like the trashier and the more off-notes they play? Yeah. That's right over alley. I've got one for you, right?

Before we go back to Steve's agenda here, because you've got to go. Do you know the label Habibi Funk? I've heard of it. Yes. Yeah. They do all compilation. Yeah.

Compilation. Yeah. Number seven in the series. Casablanca shuffle. Okay. It's a note for no cover of Bob and Earl. Harlem Shuffle. Yeah.

And the guy goes to the first phrase of it, you know, except he goes up past the note, down under the note, because he's hearing microtones, you know. He's hearing like Arabic music inflection. You've got to hear it. It's crazy.

First time you hear it, you think, oh, that's just out of tune. Then he does it the second time. He realized that's the way he sings. And other than that, Sounds like they got a, you know, a reel-to-reel tape recorder and put the microphone against the wall of an apartment that was playing the record next door.

That's what the fidelity sounds like, but it's killer. Damn, yo, you really know your music if you know about this. I mean, that's what it sounds like. My memory of the Harlem Shuffle is going to a works dance at a chocolate factory when I was about 15. Right. And all the girls lining up, all the girls, it was somebody I had cousin or some work there,

and I got to go to this works dance, and they all lined up all these girls at work there and did the dance that they thought was the hall of show. I had no idea what it was. It was like, you know, they just got it there, when that record came on, and that record didn't sound in that place reverberating. It wasn't played through a very good sound system.

It sounded no more, you know, polished than that does. Right, exactly. But the spirit of it, and all of these records, because half of them are like mishearings of records, you know they sound like dyke in the blazers is what this sounds like you know oh Jesus Christ don't even give us and start there yeah all right I'll be right there but Steve this is now officially your show okay a win a win a win a win a win I don't care what you're saying yep that's me clipper taylor the fourth you might have seen the skits the reactions my journey from basketball

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He brings up a topic that I wanted to bring up anyway about what's now become known, I think, in general, as flipping something. Somebody will hear a song, an old song, a producer, let's say, and will say, I'm going to flip that, which means essentially I'm going to take that, chop it up, sample it, or even not sample it physically, but take the idea or the vibe or the energy. I mean, you know, obviously, when we see. started is like we had about through so i don't think there was any ability to sample it there was i wasn't aware of it and music didn't take the same advantage of it people might have copied choruses i guess they would have had to lose a generation to do that in analog no no i'm not no no i'm

talking about we would in terms of hearing figures within songs you know like that's why i never had to write anything down early on because you're going it's the rhythm from this song with the guitar part from that with one note change. So you get what I'm getting at. So how is that different to sampling, except we were just playing it? It's not different. And that's kind of what I'm...

That's why when someone became dominant, it didn't necessarily sort of seem to me like some people that played their instruments, reacted to it like it was some kind of cheating. I said, well, this is everything we've been doing all along. It's the degree of imagination that you bring to the new version of it, the flipped version, as you say, is whether it's any good at all.

I mean, this is the difference. between being Jefflin and somebody, you know, like from Manchester, like, I want to say that I'm, you know, but you know what I'm talking about. And you sometimes, I believe, reveal these types of things, your inspirations for certain songs in concert, in the middle of the song. Yeah, you might quote something, you know,

that's obviously underneath the song that you're playing. I think it's also the way you get the particular notes in a vocal, if you're not, like, you alluded to the kind of not having a melodious or particularly beautiful voice, It helps to think like another singer phrases so that you do something with your own. Are you still doing that these days? Oh, yeah, totally.

Yeah, sometimes odd words will come like, wow, I thought actually sound momentarily like somebody else for one word. But it's not really important to the understanding of the song, so I never underline it. If somebody comments on it, then if they notice it, then it was because it was there. But it's not important to the telling. of the story that people record i'm not doing it to be recognized it might have been like how would such and such a singer approach that line well there's a i guess innumerable ways of approaching what we're talking about you hear a baseline that you admire and so you invert it or you use it as inspiration we did when we when we when we first started uh when i first came on on

the show and we were i was playing with the roots and you know when we listen back now to the sample that you made, and we're getting a little ahead of ourselves into wise up ghosts, but say, the sample from my new haunt is Quest playing, is derived from Quest play in Chelsea, which is Pete Thomas playing fire by Mitch Mitchell, well, by Hendricks,

but it's specifically the fire part that he's referencing. So that's like a, that's like a, you know, a flip of a flip of a flip. Correct. Four times. And I don't know if you're just, You're counting this as one of your flips, but the sound is actually a sample of you and the roots playing live on the stage. Yeah. So it's a sample of you guys.

Yeah. That's what I mean. No, I mean, but it's being quoted twice over, you know, because Quest is rationalizing it to his style of playing based on Pete's part, which is based on Mitch's part. So that's why I, you know, people are surprised that I didn't take exception about, you know, the pump it up quote. on the Olivia Rodriguez record, but that would be just ludicrous because it's like... Right.

It's common language, really, you know. If it had been a whole melody or a whole lyric that was just stolen, that would be obvious and you would take exception, but I think a certain amount of language in songs and beats particularly are... That's common. That's folk music.

Right. I mean, that's how it happens. I'm certainly not trying to get into that discussion of whether this is right to do or wrong to do or anything like that, but just to acknowledge that, you know, Mozart probably sampled from Chopin or whatever. Highten. Okay, there you go.

Figures you fucking know. But anyway, the real comparison I wanted to get you guys to talk about is how you've been doing that since the beginning, you know, and he's been doing that. And you're both doing essentially the same thing, but with different techniques and different technologies. Definitely, yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think that we've talked about, you and I have talked about, and we experienced over the, you know, I was still making the, you know, I was still making the

The previous record I made before we worked together was recording analog and edited digitally. Most of the records prior to that were recorded analog. Since then, the distance between the two mediums has closed because nearly all of the outboard plug-ins that people designed to work in digital recording today are imitations of analog, the warmth of analog equipment, valve equipment, and and sort of very carefully modulated recreations of spaces and all of these things, all these libraries of plates you can download, in an attempt to bring something less brittle to this very facile way of recording of digital,

which of course is amazing if you don't want to bother to play more than two bars of music in succession, because you could go on forever. You know, you could have every two bars have a slightly different sort of resonance. If you could be bothered to do it. You could process, you could just play a two-bar loop and, you know, paste it sequentially and make it sound like the most incredibly organic sounding track. Now, if you wanted to do that. Or you could just fucking play it, you know.

Digital is like a photograph of something where you like sort of immediately lose a generation, just right off the bat. There is something to that, for sure. But I actually come into peace with it because it is much more, and I certainly couldn't have made the latest record unless we had... Or wise up ghosts, for that matter.

Or wise up ghosts. And as you know, from the first time we played the music in the room, the music changed shape the minute, even though we were all the same people that had played those parts, for the most part, the minute we actually just played those numbers in a room

the music completely changed shape. It stopped being quite as angular and became greasier and, like, you know, flowed in a different, totally different way just because it was happening simultaneously. Yeah, it's a totally different thing. And not a collage, you know. Yeah, and I wasn't involved at that point.

Well, I didn't want to say. But before we get to Wise Up goes more in depth, you know, you're on Quest Love Supreme and the audience here are as fanatic about Quest, as I am about you. So can you tell the audience what it was like the first time you played live

with Quest and the Roots when you came on to late night with Jimmy Fallon in December of 2009? And you did High Fidelity and Chelsea. Well, I think the high fidelity was a particularly

interesting thing because it was the decision which I don't think was mine, was it? No, it was mine. That was your idea. I take full credit. You had heard the, which was then a bootleg.

You'd heard the bootleg. We were since legitimized it and released it in the Armed Forces Boxer. But it was an arrangement that we had not issued, I don't think. Was it available then? It was available through Rhino or. Oh, maybe we had released it. We hadn't remixed it as what we hadn't done. Okay.

Because we hadn't gone back to the, so what you were referencing was a board tape. And so we put the board tape on that rhino thing. and then in 2020, we actually went back to the multi-tracks. We got the multi-track and remixed the whole thing. Sebastian did that. So that's why the version that's in novels is a little bit more kind of body to it. But that was this, I mean,

when we did that record in Hilversham, Whistler Studios in 1980, it was supposed to be some sort of take on all the music that we were talking about. earlier the stuff that was kind of like that wasn't made in england was all the stuff that filtered through all as much about rnb as we kind of knew as we call it rmb and soul that's the words we use for it those words have different meanings now they have different associations yeah but when i said you know like nowadays and say you're talking about 50s rmbi you're talking about early 60s like

howlin wolf or slim harpo you're talking about you know these these different kind of fields and then the music that we identified we saw it as distinct was a southern soul but or soul that was on the atlantic label we saw us something different than tamla which was obviously had a more pop ear the way the voices were and the way things were arranged and the way that you know the orchestration the different kind of other instruments that would pop up in them they seem to have more in common with a lot of pop records that were being made by the mid-60s and you know in these definitions of what we heard. It was like the just the fact

that the Atlantic records of the most part had horns and a rhythm section with maybe piano and organ whereas the Motown or Tamla records from the mid-60s had a lot of vocal group like often the temptations even the singing

on other people's records but really kind of like very very well-arranged vocal parts and strings and they were played by jazz musicians. You can tell they're played by jazz musicians. They're kind of light feel, incredible, you know, James Jameson. To hold that whole kind of Funk Brothers band,

it's a very different sound to something like Muscle Shoals or the, you know, stuff made up on 48th Street at Atlantic, you know. And all the bands in England that copied the cues from these records were trying very hard to play that. So we grew up hearing, as I said, twice over those things and sometimes then turned up a little bit, like the small faces, gradually brought volume to bear on that picture. You know, you could tell which records,

different English singers were listening to, but they didn't necessarily sound like faithful colors. I gradually got looser, and then by the time we got making records, it was completely different. We had a lot of stuff to draw from. When we went to do that record in Holland, that we had already had pretty much all the hit record,

records that we were likely to have in England. We'd had... From Get Happy, you mean? Well, up to Get Happy. We had a couple of hits off that. Everything we made was a hit from late 77 to 80. Everything was a top 30 to top five record, every single. So that was a good run. You know, that was like what established us in England.

And at the same time, we were barely getting on the radio in America. So the things are kind of out of joint, you know? So when we got in to do that record, we had arrangements that were still carried some of our ideas from the previous year. And the big influence on the Armed Forces record were European sounding records like Abba. And, funny enough, the Bowie records,

you know, specifically low on heroes, but also station to station. And station to station was what we were aiming at when we did the slow high fidelity. That's Brian Eno's stuff? No, that's before Brian Eno. I don't know who produced that record. I don't know.

I never really checked who produced it, but it was, you know, it had a sort of a funk bass, you know, it had a funk basis to it. But then David Bowie's kind of vocal, and it had like the Nina Simone, the song associated with Nina Simone Wilde is the wind on that record and a TVC-15 and the beginning of that kind of, you know, European influence funk.

But it didn't, so we were trying to, We were enamored of that, all that music, and we're trying to play like a machine. But we didn't have the guitars. We didn't have the sustained guitars. We didn't have the layers of synth. We didn't have the layers of production that he did. We were just a four-piece band.

So the live arrangement of that was a sort of feeble attempt to play like station to station. And all that happened was when we got in the studio. We said, well, we better pick up the tempo because the song's getting away, you know? So the live recording was prior to recording the studio? studio version? Yeah, that was in the summer of 79. So we were, yeah. Well, that's so strange. I mean, maybe you weren't satisfied with, with that

arrangement, but that arrangement does have so much hump to it. It has a lot of freedom to the, to where the vocal lies. Yeah. Because you can dance around the beat a lot more because it's much slower and you can sing the melody. I mean, here's the thing is that high fidelity sung at that tempo is similar to territory to you'll never be a man. It's both influenced by the spinners, you know, they're like the spinners tunes, you know. Some things you know, is used to, you know, so Philip Wynne was like one of my,

you know, the people, the voices in the head kind of thing I could never sing like. Wow. But it shapes the way you phrase melody. Allison is based on Philip Wyn, you know, so it's based on ghetto child, you know, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I know it sounds crazy.

to say that... Doesn't tracks my tears or tears of a clown or something like that. Well, I would quote those on the end of it, but it's really laughing just a little and the spinners that are much more... The staccata way that the figure, the...

da, da, da, da, da, da... That part of the Allison, you know, comes from the spinners. Or the Detroit spinners as we knew them. Right. I guess my point, and we got to it, which was that this arrangement and had some real funk to it, some hump to it. It sounded to me like Quest Love.

Yeah, well, that was exactly. I mean, when he dropped into it, it was like, oh, now it's home. Right. Because now he understands that thing. And that, and it's more resolute. And we've got, like, a bigger band. You know, it's got the sounds. And, and he's, yeah, go horns and you've got Kirk.

Who can, who's got, you know, I had, I'd have any effects in those days on my guitar. The set of effects was tremolo. I don't think I had even a distortion. I might have had a distortion pedal by the time we were up to 79 or some sort of lift. Because I never played solo, so it was like the guitar straight in and maybe just a trammolo pedal. Later on I used to play with a Roland Space Echo,

and then later on Echo Plex, a non-Echoleck, so Rockins copycat, you know. But I didn't really get into processing pedals till. much later 20 years ago I didn't play with any really until then so you come on

onto the show apparently not to promote anything at that appearance because there's no I don't even know what that way yeah I don't know how that even came about was it it could have had

I think you were either supporting Fallon or you want to play with the roots or something I think it was just that or it's what year is it again this was end of 2009 December of 2009 could have been

in something to do it's spectacle that's around that as well. Yeah, maybe you were couch guest too. I can't remember either. I can't remember now. You know, I just remember 2009 is around the time of that secret

of finished sugar cane. And being in Nashville and Mamufuuku, I was making those records all at the same time. You know, if it had been in the days of Twitter. And I remember when we were making Rise Up Ghost, I remember one time we were waiting for Quest to come from something that he was at. and we were checking his feed to find out where he was.

So, you know, and if that had been the case, it would have been like that. There was a period where I was doing like a lot of different things. When we did the spectacle show, that required a lot of balancing of getting all these people, you know, like anything, like any television show, getting the guests to be there and then rehearsing for it

and the different musicians that played on each one. But I could be coming from Nashville having made, Zicrafane was made in three days. Oh, I. So, you know, we just went, it was a three-day session. It wasn't an album. There were three record dates as in the old star, because it was acoustic music, you know. I'd been in...

So were you thinking an EP or something for that? No, I was thinking, I was thinking something, but I was thinking we'll get these songs in the time because look who was playing on it. Wow. I got the greatest, you know, that's like an all-star band to beat the band, you know, those players. They had nothing at all to do with bluegrass. I mean, half the songs we recorded there, I wrote for an opera. you know half the songs we cut on that record were written for an opera that I wrote that I did for Copenhagen about Hans Christ and Anderson

so it was a kind of wild lot of harmony for players that played a mandolin to play you know they all were like he never had anything to do with bluegrass it was just acoustic really rendered it was like chamber music you know so all those different experiences there I think playing with the band again in this in this in the in a studio on television was pretty much unprecedented. The previous band I'd played with on television that wasn't

my own group in some one way or another would have been Letterman's band or something. I never played with Letterman's band ever. No? No, never played with them. I always played with it on my own. Well, on

Spectacle, he must have played with... I played with other bands on that, but prior to that, other experiences were the return to SNL. When I went back, I played with the house band of SNL. And Paul may have been in that band then. I don't think he'd already left. And the Beasties.

When the Beasties backed me and when I re-did on the 25th anniversary show. But the roots known as one of the greatest live acts that there is on the planet for the last 30 years, something like that. And so, you know, to feel that energy behind you on that version of high fidelity, I guess you felt like you made the right decision

to come on the show. hopefully totally yeah totally i mean it's sort of like it was like a realization and and we would have never gone back to that version in that arrangement you know we we we we we we we did it occasionally after that and i think the band the impostertsons did learn it and we did it occasionally like way or start it like that and then cut into tempo that version's what's known as a banger yeah because it bangs yeah like you know no question and then here in chelsea that's a different thing again you know because that's That was, I think, a mistake on my point. I mean, obviously we got a whole new song out of it.

And, you know, we were referencing not only the original, but there's another demo version of it with like a distorted organ. Oh, yeah, that's the earlier version, yeah, slightly slow. Slower and bit reggae and, you know, like. And we used to come in, you know, bear in mind they used to make us re-record for television. So when the record was a hit in England, you would get these three. hour sessions and most bands couldn't play their record so they were glad to just switch the tape while they weren't looking they'd switch it for a copy of the record

of the record and give the BBC essentially just a dub at the record and then say they'd cut it you know so there was this whole subterfuge where you had to go into the studio for three hours it was intended to protect the jobs and the union members that had played on records in the 60s. By the time we got to everybody playing on their own records, which was most everybody that was on these shows, there was a whole game going on where all the studio time went to waste. So, of course, because we could play,

we would come in and play the live arranger, which may be faster or had a different break and they'd get pissed off with us because they got their camera cues from the record, and then it would be different when we'd turn up at the studio. We just used to fuck with them, you know, right? But it was just something to keep it from getting stale Because the whole thing is like

The one thing about American television from the get-go And the very first time I was ever on TV in America Is he did play live I was never heard on the BBC until live-aid Every single performance on the BBC I was lip-syncing So my first ever performance is in front of 70,000 people With one guitar Good job on the BBC

I did okay But I played on the other side on the commercial side. My debut was on, was just with one guitar as well. On a sort of early evening in show in Manchester. And I did one or two performances with the band. And then the... Shout out to Weave a Weight flag while we're here.

Sorry. And the attractions played only one time a session where we played more than one song on the BBC in 86 when Blood and Chocolate was out. And we didn't play again until the 90s. There was no live at all. And even now, you don't... The other night it was on TV.

in England and I sang up a track, which is just karaoke, isn't it? It's not real. Because the music doesn't go with you anyway. You have to kind of just sing over it. It doesn't sound very good. No, I'm not a fan of that. No, it doesn't feel very alive. Aretha Franklin came on The Tonight Show or late night with Jimmy Fallon a long time ago.

She sang to her track. And I was like, oh, come on. You know, you've got the roots here for one. And even, you know, just... That does seem like a missed opportunity. A little bit. A little bit. She was great, obviously, but you know.

Yeah, no, but you still want to, you know. And I mean, by the same token, there's a clip of her, like dragging a BBC band through, don't play that song from about 68, where she's just killing on the piano. She's playing piano. And you hear, like, how one player that really knows how it goes can influence even a band of musicians that probably wouldn't ever have played anything like that before. So sometimes that was a really great thing when you have that.

Sure. with regards to Chelsea the reason why I thought it was going to be perfect for the roots and they played it just too similar I think to the original and it didn't

like I was trying to get the reggae aspect into I was trying to mash those two versions up the original yeah and the demo maybe you should have played it a little slower it would have been interesting because then that would have been

a different feel so the second time you came on you were promoting National Ransom Oh yeah well that's the one I really have a clear memory of really

I mean the other one I think it's also in different when you go in and it's a whole bunch of new guys and you don't know what they made of it. And I'm not bringing in a hit song or a song that's even on the radio or anything. You're bringing in the cross. But even the first time, I'm bringing in like a,

here's a version that we didn't record in the studio. This is someone I just did in a field in Holland. 25 years ago. This is a good idea, fellas. I think we've, no, but I think I knew right away The curiosity coming from you and coming from everything that I knew about the band and everything you'd already done was this was okay. This was really good, in fact. It was actually what it's about. And I think a little bit like talking about the festival band.

You know, they used to put festival bands together to have like All-Stars play together on jazz festivals, particularly harder to do with rock and roll bands or any other kind of music because they're not equipped to do it. you know, to get off their own script. But they, but the, uh, but to do this seems like really in the spirit of being on TV where you'd get like really unusual combinations like Bing Crosby, Jose Feliciano and the Supremes. Now check that one out on YouTube, you know. There is actually a clip of them going through about 90, I'm not 90, about 25 songs in about four minutes, medley. On those crazy medleyes, it changes every three lines.

you know. I know they make you nervous, but it's in the same spirit of the way they used to jam people together that should have never been seen an occasion that there'd be magic. There would be on TV. There would be some risk involved as well. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

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I will be his last target. He's going to get. what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break. down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players

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I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years. since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game.

I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So on November 5th, 2010, promoting National Ransom, playing Stations of the Cross and Black and White World with the Roots.

Tell us what happened that day. Well, the first thing I remember is that I was playing Whirlitzer. I don't usually play piano for one thing, not leading a band. But I really wanted to play, I wanted to play the feel of that song simply on the Whirlets had a sort of, get it locked in from where I was sitting. I knew the rhythm would be great. I felt like there was something going on with the baseline

that had been played on a double bass by Dennis Crouch. So I was really interested to hear my player. Shout out to Mark Kelly who specifically asked me to mention his name on this podcast. I bet it, yeah. And then it's kind of like it was always supposed to be a really ominous song. It was a very dark song.

It is a very dark song. then I remember we were walking I don't know in the hallway and Quest said this thing about I think you'd been in here right with with DiAngelo and it had gone really late that's what he'd told me or it'd been working or something

he'd been on a session anyway you know this was for some other thing I don't know what it was and then he said and now we're learning these in a mountain flames songs I was what the hell for you know this is so difficult he said because John McLaughlin is here as I was sitting in with us

so I said well Can he play on my song? And the next thing we're in what I think of. I mean, I'm always, I don't know, are you still in that little room or you've got bigger since COVID? What do you think? What do you think? We are.

I imagine you're still in that little room. The TARDIS. The TARDIS. So the TARDIS, I'm sure, has been described at length on this show. But, I mean, from my perspective, it is incredible that I'm sure it was just the tech cupboard where they used to keep, like, Spanners and whatever it was before it was your studio. it is amazing that so many people can function and breathe in there, you know. We can't function or breathe, but go ahead.

Yeah. So that, I think, is part of the magic of playing in preparation for playing on the show is to be in that room in close proximity. Because there's no avoid in it, even though Crest has got his booth, horn section is in the back lounge. The rest of the band is in this narrow thing behind your board. I mean, it is an amazing. And then you add John McLaughlin playing 500,000. notes every time I pointed at him because it was simply a vamp on one chord in between

the verses so we just let him fly and as everybody knows and he was so good-natured about it I mean I have no idea whether he had ever heard my name before that day but he went into it so openly right and it was it created a different kind of tension if anything that was like a moment of lightness him playing all those crazy but you've played a lot of those tribute shows and fundraising shows where everybody comes on the end of this Yeah, but they're not always that well, you know, it's rare. I've been in a number of very old bands over the years. You know, I was once on the stage in a club,

for a birthday show I was cut through where I ended up on stage of James Burton and Jerry Garcia playing behind me. You know, that was pretty weird. Wonderful, you know, and all playing the wrong guitar. But to have that kind of lock on that, on this ominous groove and this kind of hump that Quest found in the beat, which ended up being like another piece for us, that was great.

I mean, that John was playing on it too was wonderful. And Black and White World was a song that wanted to go like that. Now, that's a song that Quest had played with us on me already. Had he played it with us then there, or did he play it? No, no. Shortly after this appearance... He came and played it with us. He came to the beacon or something and played black and white world on stage with you. Part of the wheel show, yeah, part of the spinning song.

Right, right. But you just called it. It wasn't chosen on the wheel. No, it was just because you knew he knew it. Yeah, right, yeah. But he did. We often cheated in that way when we got in the later, and we had some song we wanted to play, you know. Yeah, Pete actually ended up singing that night because he was pushed off the drum store.

Right. He wasn't best pleased. Why isn't Pete Thomas universally known as one of the greatest British or whatever drummers? met any drummers? Have you met any other drummers? You know, there's a lot of really maniacal, like really I've met one in particular. No, but I mean, there are some that really are going to tell you all about their

own brilliance. There's a lot of them that are not as good as they think they are. He doesn't need to speak about himself, but why isn't... I think it's been part of that that he hasn't been broadcasting it, and partly, you know, big mouth here has been kind of taken up all the airspace up in front of him for 45 years. I absolutely say straight out. I just have, I'll tell anybody it wants to listen. Now Charlie Watts has gone, he's number one.

He's the number one rock and roll drummer playing today. Wow. I'll say that right out. That's all kinds of other kind of music, but as a rock and roll drummer, there's nobody close. And be honest, he's playing now as good as he played then? I think he might actually be playing better now. And he would say, I think he would admit the fact, like the one thing about going to a Spanish model, you know, the record we did where we re-recorded all the vocals in

Spanish with guest artists over the attractions original parts. A lot of those artists are very much used to the, you know, the conveniences of modern recording technique. Two of them in particular, click track, an auto tune. There's none of the, obviously we didn't have access to that neither of those things were really part of our scene. So that was a lot for some of those younger artists who were used to knowing what the tempo was and they've always got that click going, keeping them

time and they're saying well what's the tempo and we're going well in the first verse it's people would want me to say this but our records do speed up a lot and well they slow down sometimes in as they're supposed to and then certainly there's no audit tune on them you know so thank god yeah yeah the roots and elvis castello with john mclaughlin you can look it up yeah uh november 5th 2010 on phallan and black and white world which again had that high fidelity arrangement hump that i'm talking about yeah that i wanted to hear that i always have That was, that was, that always had it. That was always had it.

When we arranged it like that, it went a different way originally that song. Yeah. It was a completely different song. It was an acoustic folk song. It sounded like a Ray Davis song. Which version you like better? As a piece of storytelling, the first version is, is, that's called number two, right? That's a better, that's a better.

For telling the story of the song, that's better. As a piece of music, I like the version that we played that night. but that was sort of like I remember as being in you know with that was a lot of drinking involved in that get happy record so there were these episodes where we just get frustrated and we'll be sort of squabbling

and I say oh fuck it let's just do that did you play it like little feet it was actually what it was like that was us trying to play like little feet and if you sort of can hear some of their wilder stuff not particularly sailing shoes kind of record you can sort of get that

that Pete is kind of referencing richie haywood It was this great drummer that played with that group. Now, people don't much know their music now so much, but then they were a band that, you know, we all admired. And so that was in our references, along with all the other things, you know. We're talking about drummers, but let's get back to guitarists like John McLaughlin. And you mentioned Jerry Garcia. Yeah.

So can you just tell us what it was like to know him and to play with him on stage a couple of times? I only play with him one time. I spend a little time with him. I did an interview for a magazine about... I'm only asked because I know you're a fan as well. Yeah, well, I just think it was... There was a period where I really did, really love the records, really from...

I never really did like the long improvisational things as much. That didn't fascinate me as much. I like the sound of some of their records who are kind of strange, kind of folk baroque, kind of psychedelic stuff. And I really love the stuff that's very... You can hear in so-called Americana records now, all these things that echo the dead from 70 to about 74,

but specifically American beauty on the record that proceeded at Worker Men's Dead. They just had really good songs. They had this really good, like maybe 20 songs that were really unbeatable. I saw them play a couple of times at that time, and they were terrific. And I just didn't, when they went off into the other thing,

I could think of other music that extended like that that held my interest. small. But I could see why people liked it. It just wasn't my thing. I guess the next thing chronologically, as far as leading up to Wise Up Ghost, is when you graciously cut vocals for the Swindles project, for the Squeeze Covers record. You and the Roots did a version of someone else's heart. And that was certainly fun. The first time we got to do that, but I felt more like that record was a bit of a proving ground for a larger project with the Roots. Like, I didn't know that was in your mind at the time, but for me it was like...

It's more looking back on it. It was really like I loved it because I produced the original version, obviously, with East Side Story. And I quit when I was ahead as a producer, right? So, I mean, I had three hit albums in succession as a producer of other people's records. And I wasn't credited as a co-producer on my early records. I mean, Nick would say, from Armed Forces onwards, I had a fairly strong input on the way things went and sounded in final mixes.

but was never credited. I deliberately didn't credit myself on Imperial Bedroom, even though I was the co-producer effectively of that record because I gave so much of the responsibility for the way the record actually sounded to Jeff Emery. But the music, the musical input

and the musical arrangement of the record, everything that you would call production now was my idea. You know, weeks in the studio on my own, just me and Jeff. Half of the recession was just me and him. So when I got to do my own performance, production 80, 81 and 85.

It was only usually with either with friends or bands that I thought somebody else would fuck up. So that's how I came to do the specials, which was a band that had a very vivid sound live and a genius kind of arranger, Jerry Damas, and I just needed to protect his vision, as I understood it, from, any frailties that I could detect in the actual playing,

and they didn't have many, because they were really very balanced in most cases, and the same was true of the Pogues, which was the last record I produced, the band obviously genius songwriter, and a mixed bag of instrumentalists, so sometimes I'd have to step in and maybe bring a kind of steadying thing

somewhere in the instrumental ensemble. But the rest of the time, I just try to catch it while it was going on. Squeeze is entirely different because you've got like incredible, facile in the American sense, in the sense that Glenn has tremendous musical facility. Glenn Tilbrook, yeah. As a composer, as a singer, as a guitar, he's in a very, very underrated guitar player. He's like the Pete Thomas of the guitar.

You know, he really, you never see his name quoted as great guitar players. Glenn should easily be in that bag. Great melodic, you know, the signatures and the melodies of. his solos. It's like George Harrison. They're like hooks in themselves. He's not just string bending and kind of fancy, you know, dazzling kind of play in other way he can do that too. And incredible lyricist in Christopher and the two voices in this octave kind of relationship. And then that bad, of course, they had poor character as well. He'd replace Charles Holner, original keyboard player. And then I knew that was a secret weapon. So that's how we made Tempted,

which was the big hit. And that was my mind. my idea to do it like that to sort of take it in like as if it were an Al Green song and put the kind of little single line kind of clickety click kind of rhythm guitar that runs through it it's not playing a backbeat it's been dungatagat do that's me playing that you know not playing background vocals singing background vocals I mean I listen to background vocals I have a kind of ludicrous I was kind of doing all of the temptations parts you know so I'm doing the Black coffee in bed too. Yeah, I'm doing the bass voice as well as the falsetto,

but we didn't know anybody we could get to do that, so we're just doing it in imitation of records that we loved, you know? And they seem to just work to break it up like that, to divide it up, make it more of a group composition, you know? Is the reason you haven't self-produced more of your records because getting a producer is just another opportunity to collaborate with another great music mind? Well, I haven't

Or do you have some like disaffinity for it No, no, no, I mean, I think there's a couple of records that are definitely, I have to take more responsibility for than others, I mean, but I mean... You co-produced a lot of records. I co-produced, you know, I, I mean, there's no doubt, I didn't have anything to do with the sound of King of America. But that's, I'm credited as co-producer on that

because I had this sort of brother-like partnership with Tim Mennep from the minute I met him. And there was a lot of things that I wanted to try and do on that record, which changed because we were going to acoustic instruments for the most part in the first part of it. It was supposed to be half acoustic, half electric. And really because the success rate at the first sessions, which were with the Hollywood-based musicians,

you know, many of whom had played, that there'd been an ex-recking crew, kind of in 70s era, Jim Kaltner and people like that, when the attractions arrived at the sessions, there was nothing for them to play. There was nothing, don't know songs left. Sudealites.

Which was a really great one. But there was a 10th session. It was a 10th session. It had to go down very well because they still saw it as a, you know, unified band. I'd want to be on that record too if I were them. I don't know that they particularly wanted to play the other songs. I don't think there was much feeling for those other songs

or where I was headed. But we did make one more. record, which again was where we gave it, you know, the control to Nick Lowe. I had a little bit more input in terms of processing things than I maybe had done earlier, but it was Nick's decision to say battered old bird, which is a pretty great record. That's a Nick Lowe idea to cut between the two keys and have this sort of strawberry fields forever incident where it just sort of goes into phasing and comes out in another key. These are things you'd assume I'd kind of picked up from Jeff Emerick, but that was all Nick's idea.

So, you know, he was capable of getting into, there wasn't always in the bash it down kind of thing. He could also hone ideas. I also produced him around that time as well, which was the only time I ever produced Nick. A lot of artists may not want some other fucking genius in the room and keep their album, I wanted to be the way that I have it in my mind and somebody else's going to be playing.

I think you, I mean, certainly with DeBan, I think it was the, It was his advocacy for the simple storytelling. You know, I had this idea that I wanted to write with the directness that I liked about Hank Williams songs, even though I was never going to be a country singer. I think I'd already proved that by going to Nashville and cutting a whole record with Billy Sherrill.

It's a great record. No, I like that record. But, I mean, I had to accept that Billy Cheryl didn't really know why I was there singing those songs. And he just brought where he could recognize the ability to try and make a hit. he did what he did, which was put the, you know, make those sweetening devices which he developed over the hits with George Chowes and Charlie Rich, which was the whole reason I wanted to work with him. With the benefit of hindsight, I can think of maybe three or four other producers I might have got to the heart of what I liked about those songs.

A little easier, but I wasn't at my most kind of reasonable or disciplined at that time. There was a lot of drinking going on on that record as well as 90. day but you know like tear really that we that we were on in Nashville you know that that was a miracle any record came out of it frankly there's some video of that right yeah there's a documentary it's pretty it's pretty sodden at times you know yeah and kind of maudlin yeah so just to continue on the timeline someone else's heart is where we left off and then you came on for what we were calling springsteen week on the fallon show that's where i'm thinking about fire that's right that's right brilliant disguise just with Quest and James Poyser as an arrangement,

just the drums, piano, vocal thing. Yeah, because I had done it as a, pretty much, I'd done it as a solo, and I'd cut it with just a rhythm section with Pete. It's on a co-jack variety, right? Yeah, well, it was on the extras. Yeah, it was, actually it was a demo I cut for George Jones. I'd done it a really weird assignment where I'd been asked to interview him for interview magazine, which is even stranger.

George Jones in an interview magazine doesn't really go. you know we were on either end of a line from wherever he lived outside of Nashville I think Hendersonville somewhere he lived and I don't know where he lived but anyway he was in America and I was kind of talking to him from Dublin and it was I was asking him why he had never looked like Willie Nelson had done to kind of a broader world of songs because I really had these same songwriters that gave him tunes over the years and truthfully many of them were unworthy of his voice and and and so So I started naming songs that I thought he could sing.

And he had not heard of any of them. I mean, there were songs by songwriters he'd never considered. And sort of I said, well, maybe, you know, I could send you some of those. And I was trying to basically get a gig producing him. And he didn't quite take the bait. So I thought, well, he didn't ask me to do this, but I'm going to go in on my own dime. You had worked with him long before this. I had recorded with him in 1979 on a train of being on TV with him.

stranger. And I sang him with him on a television show a couple of times. Yeah. So I did know him. And I just went for my own amusement as much as anything to go in. And I did, I think, 10 songs in one day. Just recorded them like me, Pete Thomas, and the bass player that Pete used to play with before the attractions.

A guy called Paul Riley, who'd been the engineer at Nick Lowe's Studio Ampro. And it'd been my first choice for the attractions. He'd been, he'd turn me down. Who's that? A guy called Paul Riley. And I'd actually asked him to be in a band before we had the attractions. What did he play? Base.

Okay. Yeah, and he didn't want to do it. So, um, no, Paul is a great bass band. He played in a group called Ruggulator, which was a great group with a, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. And he ended up being, you know, valuable engineer at Nick Lowe's studio, which was a little home studio, which had been owned by Tony Visconti. Tony Visconti had on that building and had a little studio.

where he'd mixed a bunch of things, Sparks and Diamond Dogs and things, and then Nick did a bunch of things in there. I cut with Johnny Cash there. So it was like, it was a tiny studio. You wouldn't even know it was there. It was a little bit like the TARDIS, you know, it was like, you'd be walking along,

you would never guess there was a studio inside that building. You know, it didn't look like a, it looked like a house. So is like the whole bonus disc of cojack variety, like all those demos? Like you're going to make me lonesome. Yeah, you're going to make me lonesome. I don't know what I put out in the end How long has this been going on?

George Gershman's song I always heard that as a country song I thought that could be done Jules, could sing the hell out of that So on March 1st, 2012 you came on and played Brilliant disguising this totally weird arrangement I guess

Sort of very spare Very sparse, yes Yeah And also Fire The Bruce Springsteen song As made famous by the Pointer Sisters And that's where you added A Fray's

yeah, too hot. Which I'd cut with the specials, which was... Right. Tootan Matiles. You see, again, you see, that's the thing. So we... I don't know that so much that people don't...

I don't know whether they realize that the kind of second kind of... Like the way a lot of musicians really know a lot of R&B references, you had all these kind of bands that were really kind of blues fanatics in the early 60s.

By the late 60s, had people who like that are my age and a little bit older younger than me who had totally heard reggae in a way that I just don't think it was part of American music in quite the same way you know it's just like Jimmy Cliff and then Bob Marley and a few other one-off hits but we had a lot of it you know we had a lot of records sort of bluebeat records and if they weren't actually in the charts they were like the sort of secret music like the we were talking about Northern Seoul, that kind of reggae, that from Scar through Rocksteady through reggae, before Mali and the Whalers, it was like we all knew these vocal groups that sounded sort of

like the impressions that were all sort of like influenced by that, close harmony groups, or sometimes doing covers. You know, people, I think Quest and I had this talk about this before. Don, don, don, dong, dong, dong, dong, dung, dung, dung. Everybody says that. I'll take you there, but it's not. It's from a reggae record that they were covering. You know, so it's like this cross talk between all these music, you know. So I think this is kind of that point where you said that famous line standing in the TARDIS, which was like, hey, we've recorded half of Get Happy already,

you know, remix, whatever, re-recorded, get happy. Maybe we should make a record. And that's when me and Quest looked at each other, you know. I see, that's not, you see, that's the victors. the victors get to write the history. Now, my memory is as walking off from the set that second or third time,

I don't know which time it was, and Quest saying to me, you know we're going to make a record. I don't know which of those remarks happened first. Both things could have happened. Maybe I said that because he'd said that to me already or the other way around.

Wise Up Ghost, which, you know, connects with this conversation that I want to have if you ever comes back, is, you know, ultimate example. Do you have to pee? Tune in next week to see if Elvis needs to pee. This has been part one of our

Questlove Supreme interview with Elvis Costello. Check out part two when I squirm some more as this music monster lets loose and dumps the skinny on Wise Up Ghost. His collab with the roots. My name is Sugar Steve. I love my job.

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