The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Faith Newman

Episode Date: July 4, 2022

Faith Newman is the A&R who signed Nas and helped create the runway for Illmatic. She joins Questlove Supreme to discuss her time at Def Jam, Columbia, and working with UGK and Too Short at Jive.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the IHeard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Yo, yo, what up? This is Fonte, Fantigolo, here with another QLS classic. This episode, we're taking it back to January 18, 2017. with Faith Newman.

Faith Newman is the ANR who signed Nodz and helped create the runway for Iomatic. She joins the QLS to discuss her time at Dev Jam, Columbia, and working with UGK and Too Short H.I. This is it, y'all. Episode number 18 of QLS, Fafit Newman on the QLS Classic. One does that. Supremma,

sub, sub, subprima role call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima role call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, subrima role call. Suprema, sub, Suprema, roll call. My name is Questo, yeah. That's who I am. Yeah. Gonna ask Faith Newman, yeah.

All about D-D-D-D. Suprema, Subrema, sub-sprima roll call. Suprema, sub-Supremma roll call. My name is Fonte. Yeah. I'm in the place. Yeah. I'm not George Michael.

Yeah. But I just gotta have faith. Hold on. Suprima. You were a light. La-ya-roa roll call. Suprema, Suprema,

Suprema roll call. Ah, yeah. Faith Newman. Yeah. They call me sugar. Yeah. The sexy Jew man. Ro-Kaw.

I'm gonna punch that. Supriva Ro-Kaw. No punches. Supraima. So-Supima Roll Call. I'm on pay bill. Yeah. Can't get no better.

Yeah. Ready for eggnog. Yeah. Christmas sweaters. Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, supremer roll call. Supremma, son, son, sub, suprem a roll call. This boss bill the meanest?

Yeah. This boss bill the prettiest. Yeah. This boss bill the baddest, mofo, don't down around this town. What happened? Supremma role call. Supremma, suh, subprima role call.

This is Laidya, working on a rhyme scheme. Yeah. I don't know what I mean. Yeah. But I'm trying, you see? No. Why she fucking with me. Rocault.

Suprema. Suprema, sub, subprima roll call. My name is Faith. Yeah. I haven't rhymed since 1980s. Yeah. That was it. Roll call.

Supremia. Sraima, sub, sub, subprima role call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima role call. Suprema. Suprema, sub, sub, sub. Suprema, sub. Suprema, roe. Supremea

Supreme a Roca It's actually ironic that we are in Orm Barrack Street in the location of the I guess the original Chon King

Oh he Chon King I thought you were going to go to Def Jam I was trying to go to Def Jam So Def Jam wasn't on this block? No Not the original The original is on Elizabeth Street I see well that voice you hear

ladies and gentlemen is a legendary, legendary voice. What can I say about Faith Newman? I mean, she has been there for some of your favorite moments in music if you are a hip-hop hit. You know, if the maroon to black Def Jam logo, the original meant anything to you in the 80s, in the 90s. Faith Newman was there, not to mention.

she's spirit-headed probably one of the most debated and contested pieces of work that has ever been in hip-hop. I'm speaking of Illmatic by Naz. You've done so much more. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Faith Newman. That's up. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome to our dungeon. How are you doing today, Faith? I'm doing okay, man. You do it? Yeah. Yeah. A dungeon. Welcome to my underground. When you hear that, normally I don't kick off an episode with the song, but when you hear that particular piece or just stuff from that era, like what's the first thing you thought of when you heard? Well, you know, I started working at Def Jam at 87.

Right. So, you know, when I was still in college, and it was just an amazing, amazing time. Just some of the best years in my life were spent there. It was one of the first five people at the company. First woman. Right. I was going to say if you were a woman in that environment, I know that you have to have the toughest skin of all time. Yeah.

Because you're like, what, you're around 20, 21. In that environment? Yeah. Wow. Well, you know. There was no such thing as HR department. No, there's no HR department. No.

There was no trigger warnings. There was none of that shit. You know, what's interesting, though, is that before Def Jam, I interned at Columbia Records in 86. And, yeah. And you can imagine what that was like then. You still, I don't know if you saw this show. No, the one that got canceled on HBO about the record. VINEL.

Thank you. Thank you. It was like that. Wait, vinyl got canceled? Yeah. Yeah. One and done. I'm done.

Damn, next to New York, New York, that was, damn, I was actually. I was into it. Me too. Yeah, I like that as well. Wow. But those guys, you know, in 86, that had been in the record business since, you know,

whenever, 70s were still there. And that's where I got, I experienced more harassment. You know what I mean? I see. And I feel like with hip-hop, though, it's like I never could have gotten a job at Columbia, unless I wanted to be somebody's assistant, you know. So you're saying that working at Columbia in 86

prepared you for the tough skin of the battles that you would have to deal with? Yeah, you know, it's funny. Like, I don't know if it was my youth or whatever, how much I loved hip-hop. It just, I didn't think of myself as a woman first in hip-hop. I just felt like, you know, that's kind of how it was, with everybody who worked at Def Jam.

It was like we were all young and we were just totally immersed in the culture. Were there any other women at the time that maybe, because you know, you were the first at Def Jam, but were there any contemporaries? There were women at Rush. So what you had was in Elizabeth Street, you had Rush management was on the first floor.

And you had Lisa Cortez and Heidi Smith. Oh, yes. Wow. Lisa Cortez. Yes, Lisa Cortez. Wow. Yeah. Who went on to work with Lee Daniels and great things.

Yeah, she's doing great things in film. she once infamously told the roots when we I believe that she went to Mercury in 94 okay all right so something happened

we were going to sign with Mercury like we went out to dinner and all this stuff and then like there's a minor glitch in the contract that technically left us free for like a weekend and that's when Wendy Goldstein came and with all his cash and Lisa Cortez was like

I hope they take race relation classes over there. That was like her last like, oh, you're going to learn today. I'll never forget. So, like, was that your, I'm trying to pedal backwards before I go forward.

But how did you wind up in music? You're from Philadelphia. I'm feeling. in Philadelphia. Proud Philadelphia. Okay. I'm clapping a little. Right.

All right. Are you from Philly now? I mean, I have been able to the last 16 years. I'll take it. You're always, all right, just know officially, like, besides us being born on the same day, you're always a Philadelphia native to me. I feel that. D.C. doesn't count.

Yeah, yeah, no. My boozy spirit is down thanks to the Philly. Like, you know, it takes you down. It brings you back up. Feeling good. So you're growing, what part of Philadelphia did you? Northeast. Oh.

Wow. Is this Fishtown? No. Northeast. Real Northeast? Real Northeast. Like Bustleton Avenue. Okay.

Tomlinson Road. Any of this town and familiar, Philmont Avenue. Okay. I would explain. Roosevelt Boulevard. If you, okay, what I'm saying is back in, let's say, 1983. Mm-hmm. If current day

No status Amir Thompson Were to be in that neighborhood Might I be greeted With some Louisville sluggers Perhaps Ask to relieve yourself With some item

The Northeast is special I don't know The Northeast is special How Okay so I know Me knowing you personally I know that you're a soul

Music aficionado Mm-hmm How did that reach you up in the northeast because when I'm thinking 70s and 80s northeast I'm thinking of like FM 98 I'm thinking of the word yo like yeah let's go get a hoagie yeah yeah like when you're from Philly it's the worst ever so glad I don't talk you said that but you said that authentic like uh-huh let's go get a hoagie yeah so like how were you no pun intended were you a black sheep of Yeah, I have a funny story about that.

Do you want to hear it? Well, actually, the reason was Soul Train. Ah, okay. What was the reason? That, you asked me. Why? No, I mean, you're a love for the show or just? No, my love for the music.

I always had music playing in the house. My dad had this great, you know, fancy real-to-reel player, and he would play a lot of Ray Charles, and the birds, Creedence Clearwater Revival, like a lot of bluesy stuff that I was always attracted to. And then...

We should let our listeners know that in the 70s, the real-to-reel player was like... I mean, that was the original MP3 holder. Even before, like, cassettes weren't even... Yeah, well, they'd bought, you know, you'd buy real-to-reel albums like you would.

Oh, okay, they went all the way in. My dad would just get blank reel to reels and then record all the music he liked on that reel to reel. So he just had three hours of continuous music without having to put the record stack on. So your father would listen to all these songs on his room. There was always music playing in the house, always on the house, always on the radio in the car. Funny story I mean you asked kind of how I was different

My grandparents lived in North Philadelphia And North? Yeah N-O-R-F? N-O-R-F North Wow

What year? Oh God I mean they moved out in the 70s So you know 40s, 50s Was that still hood? I mean my mom went to Overbrook

They're from Oh, my goodness, y'all are, okay. Your family was special. Yeah. Yeah. Very integrated, like. Yeah. But the story, the funny story is that I was four, I guess, four or five,

and I was sitting on the stoop in my grandmother's house. And across the street, these activists, I guess, were said, I don't know if they were Black Panthers. I don't know what they were, but they were setting up a table to hand out literature. and I thought that they just looked amazing. They had these big afros and just they seemed so cool. So I went across the street just to hang out with them. And they said, are you lost?

Which is, you know, symbolic. And yeah, so that was a funny story. But Soul Train was where I got my music from. was it every Saturday. Okay. And then pretty much, I mean, when did you leave Philadelphia to make your trek to New York?

I started going to New York when I was 16 so that I kind of would sneak away. I would tell my mom is sleeping in a friend's house and I'd take the Greyhound to New York and I'd go to the Roxy places like that. Finally. Someone that's been to the Roxy at its peak period.

Now, what year is this? It's 81, 82? 82. So what was the, what's the average environment of the Roxy? Because I think after Studio 54, the Roxy's definitely fall into the mythical. Yeah, it was everything that I thought it would be the first time I went. It was like, how did you hear about it?

That's a good question. I don't know. I don't remember. I mean, I started listening to hip-hop when I was 13, and I heard it the first time at United Skates of America on Roosevelt Boulevard. Damn! USA! USA! I remember that spot.

Yeah. But it is the first time I heard a rap record, which of course, you know, given, you know, was in Philly and it was a rapper's delight. So that was a game-changing moment for me. And I found a friend from Jersey who would get cassettes of, you know, Funky 4 Plus 1 and Angie B and Spoonie G and, you know, all of this stuff. and that's how I got my hip hop early on. It was through these cassettes, through from New York to Jersey to Philadelphia. Really?

So I've never heard of tapes making... They made their way. Well, they made their way to my friend in Jersey and he got me the tape, so... Okay. So when you're going to the Roxy, like, what's the average night? It's like jelly bean, Benita is spinning.

Like, who's spinning there? Who was spinning? Bambato was spinning that night. Really? Yes. So what did... What is his method of, I mean, can you describe, like, some of the songs he heard or whatever? I heard he would just go all over the place.

I heard one mixtape in which he, for some weird reason, just stayed on the Hey Mickey of... Drum intro for like 10 minutes, though. I didn't believe that. But it wasn't like, but it wasn't like it was in line. It'd be like, boo, bo, bo, goo, jikigigit, jik. Wow. Sounds like sneakers in the drive. That was the best analogy I ever heard.

I ever heard. So any of the folklore characters of Roxy? Yeah, well, I just remembered. I met Melly Mel and Scorpio, and I thought that was a really cool thing. And it was the first time I saw Rocksteady live. It was like everything was happening at once. It was like all of hip-hop in this, you know, in this little space.

And it was just, you know, they were writing graffiti on plexiglass, you know. They were break dancing. It's actually probably 83 because Planet Patrol performed. That's what I remember. Oh, wow. Played your own wrist. That's that one. Put your own wrist.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. with those crazy costumes with the crazy costumes and the hats samurai hats

all of it Planet Patrol would they'd start their shows looking like I can't even describe I mean it it was like that

it was like very like P-funk the way they did it and Sol Sonic Force did it and it wasn't until run DMC that people stop kind of you know even the Furious Five had you know

what they used to dress like so did you dress like that as well no oh where Were you B-girl? Were you the prototype, the cool white girl in the circle of black friends? I was a B-girl.

Okay. For sure. And then later on I was really, like when I said that I haven't rap since 86, like, that's for real. Like, I was in a rap group and everything, so. Wow. What was the name of a rap group? Yeah. Well, I have to preface this, you know, so it makes sense.

Remember Calvin Coolers? Yeah. They came into four-pack, not a six-pack? Yes. Okay. Your name was a little four-pack. Our name was four-pack. Wow.

There were four of us. Get it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got to Google that. You're not going to. Calvin Coolers.

Oh, Calvin Coolers. Yeah. I've never heard of those. Never heard of them? No. No. Oh, Ken used to always rhyme about it. That's why Calvin is cooler.

I'm late. I'm sorry. It's funny, though. I just didn't now have got the reference. I knew it from the Kane rhyme, but I didn't know it was an actual. Well, wait. Who are the two old white? guys who used to sell the bottles and James and I remember them what happened the wine

coolers do they even sell them yeah but they're like hard lemonade's yeah Mike's hard lemonade yeah they transformed we need a boy cider so for a non-drinkle like me where wine cooler been like the perfect yeah yeah that's what you drank yeah it's just some sweet diabetic black shit no wait is it black shit though no I mean you know like we like you know black folk like when mystic came out yeah but we'd be ordering we'd be ordering moscato it's the sweet tea of wine Yes, yes. Yeah, any kind of wine cooler.

Why do they stop making it? Because I would have been the perfect, oh, I would also have been dead. No, they still make it. It's just marketed towards, like, you know, freshmen in college. Wow, like Boone's Farm. So, wait, when Bruce Willis was saying, Seagrams, go to wine cooler. Who were they, they were talking to the black folk?

I don't think, I think it was the thing where it was unintended consequences. Like how most upscale white products. Right. Like they, you know, right, Crystal. Oh, we grabbed it? Yeah, we grabbed it. It's like, oh, damn, we mean them for them niggas to get that. But it happens.

Like, Poh. How about I say, Polo? Polo. Timmolus. He's like, no, we made. Thank you, Fade. Why you get polo? We made chaps for y'all nits.

Y'all didn't pose to get polo. But, you know, it happens. Really? Like sneakers in the drive. Anyway. So, damn, I forgot how we got on this tangent. But. Tangent on question.

Wine Coolers? Wine Coolers. Four pack. No, one of the wine. Four pack is the name of their group. Four pack's the name of our group. All right. So what was your actual name in the group?

Four pack. No, what was your name? Oh, my actual name? Yeah. Oh, man, you're not going to get that out of me. Oh, come on. We got this question of Supreme. Faith Newman, please.

Oh, Lord. Exclusive. Give us the other girl. We won't get you to HR, we promise. Promise? Does Nas know what it is? I never told him. I must have told him.

It was MC Fortune. Oh, that's cool. That ain't bad. That ain't bad at all. Wait, who are the other three, though? Rami, S.D. and C. Money. Oh, see money. That sounds like medical conditions.

Are they in the business now? No. Oh, okay. Were you guys, like, seriously trying to get a deal? We were, you know, we were just so, like I said, immersed in the culture that it just seemed like this natural extension. Like, let's just have a group. and we went in the studio with the LA Posse. Oh, wow.

Oh, wait, doing the Big and Defer era? Yeah, I was on, I'm on the bigger and deffer album. What? What's on? I don't know, the go LL, go L. Oh, let's get ill. No, let's get ill. No, no, and let's get ill.

Both. Oh, let's get ill. So, wait, when you were still working at Def Jam. I hadn't started working with Def Jam. I didn't start working until 87. I thought you ain't aren't bigger and Defer. No. Okay, but you started working at Def Jam in 87.

87. When that album came out. So back then, you were still pursuing a... It was like a half... It isn't really what I wanted to do. Wait, was it four white girls or...? Yeah, we were four white girls. And Russell didn't see this.

At one point, was it like... As a marketing... We're the new... We're the female beastie. Right. Like, did he know about the... I don't think he even knew. It was a short-lived part of my life.

Were you guys good? We're trying to bring us back. I mean, are there demo tapes? Is there a performance or a reunion tour? Yeah, we're putting the band back together. We're putting the band back together. Put the band on tour and perform our ad lials from all. Let's get in.

So that was the first time I saw Todd without his hat on. That was interesting. Wow. I don't think I saw that to like 95. Yeah, no, I got a sneak peek. Quincy Jones told of a story where he brought L.L. to Bill Cosby's house for dinner. Okay. And L.L. had his hat on.

And, you know, Bill Cosby said, you know, one of them Cosby things like, well, in this house, young men, we take our hats off and da-da-da-da-da. So L.L. like all embarrassed took his hat off and then Bill looked at his head. It was like, like, put that hat back on. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down

what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so where does...

So we'll put the rap group, just put that in a little, you know, bubble that... Well, no, you were... I was, yeah. Was this when you were going to college, or... Yeah, I was still in college. NYU, correct? Mm-hmm. Where was your major?

Marketing. Did you know Gina, or was that too soon? Gina Gershahn? Mm-mm. Gina Gasson with the NYU for acting? She went to... NYU and told me, Gina Gershan is the second person

I know that has neglected her finals, like her college finals to pursue her actual dream. The other person is Ursula Smith of Set to Run.

Gina told me that she was running late to her very final test that she had to take to get her degree. And Andy Warhol's stopped her and said you know

you must be in my video I think he was directing a video for the cars and he wanted her immediately so it's like do I go to do I take this final and get my degree or do I do this car's video

she did the cars video and the same story with Ursula Smith Ursula was was she the official Rush published this by then or No, not yet. Layla.

Layla. So Layla was there. So Layla brought Ursula. That's right. I know that she, there was a group on Tommy Boy called Information Society. Running. Yeah, running. And it's like one of the Stevie B.

Oh. Girl, I needed you tonight. Like everything over Planet Rock, that sort of Stevie BS. Freestyle. What's on your mind. Exactly. So she had brought information society to her college in Houston, like part of a spring fling thing. And all she had to do is take her finals.

And they asked her, like, after the show, you know, we don't have a tour manager or something like, would you travel with us? But they're like now, like in an hour. Oh, man. And she took the opportunity. She didn't take her final. She just packed everything and left college and went on tour. I was going to leave. And Rick said that I should finish because I had one semester to go.

Was Rick Rubin at NYU at the time? No. Like, was he actual or was that just folklore that he just lived there? Yeah. So he was a student there? Yeah. Okay. But by the time I, you know, came aboard, he had, you know, he was living.

living in the Elizabeth Street building. Okay. Because I'm just under the impression that Rick Rubin lived in the NYU dorms, like, during this whole period. And I'm like, well, when was he actually in college? No, because he graduated, he would have had to graduate in 84. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

And I graduated in 88, so. I see. Mm-hmm. So, like, when did you, well, you did Columbia? First, correct. Actually, my first, first internship was with a company called Select Records. Oh, yeah. Do you remember Select?

UTFO. Whistle, Real Roxanne. What years is? 86, summer of 86. Right when that lethal record was coming out. UTFO, lethal, yeah. So what did you do at Select? Made phone calls for, you know, radio, like for, I don't know, the retailers.

How big was the company back then? It's about the size of this space we're in right now. How many employees? Full-time employees. Four? Wow. Including you? No, not including me.

So four and a half. Yeah, four and a half. Four-and-a-half. Four-pack. So, okay, so you left Select to go to Columbia. Well, yeah. Was this, well, I think Terrence was there. What was their big 86 moment for you?

I mean, besides Charday or whatever. Gregory Abbott. Ooh. Wow. Shake you down. You just woke Steve up from the day. The original Mark Morrison. Wait a minute.

He's still asleep. Steve. Shake you down. I love you and stop the show. Hey, baby. I bought that by my mother. Of course you did. Steve.

You know shake you down. No, I don't. Girl. Let me tell you all about Steve. He looked like Tubbs from Miami Vice. No, he did. He did. He did.

Wasn't Philip Michael Thomas on Columbia? No, that was Atlantic. Eddie Murphy was on Columbia. Yes, he was. Yeah. Yo, did you read that print story with Eddie Murphy? Yeah, yeah. God, he was on Columbia.

That's right. Well, okay, the thing about Sugar Steve is he is the black yacht rock expert. That's a hell of a title. Didn't you do a book report on like On the Wings of Love or something? Yeah, Chuck. Wow. Jeffrey Osborne. Wow.

Yes. No, I'm serious. Yeah, play it. That's my joint. Can you just sing it? I can. Wait, why did you do a report on On the Wings Alone? Okay, so the story was, it was actually called, it wasn't a report, it was called a rollout.

It was for a music class in middle school, or junior high, as we called it. And basically, you had to draw the lyrics. And then, and then as, and then. And then you get in front of the class, you play the song on a radio or whatever, and then you slowly roll it out. That's why it's called roll out. It's the Montessori school.

Yeah, what the fuck school would you go to? I see why you smoke a lot of weed now. Yeah, yeah. Did you have grades? No, so they're so. Nice one, Bill. Nice one, Bill. So anyway, you get in front of the class

and you slowly roll it out while the music's playing so that you see the lyrics in drawing. and so you know the guy the music teacher says choose a choose a song that you love and and use that as your as your rollout topic and yours is on the wings of love yo the only army song in the class matter of fact

you can you describe oh please oh any reason to play this song come on Steve get to me get to no this is I need more so um so the day of the rollout comes and and uh I'm sitting in the class and the first student goes, and he chose like Led Zeppelin or something,

the next guy comes in, it's deep purple, and next guy comes in, it's, you know, Black Sabbath. And then Steve walks up there, and I knew right there I had made sort of a misjudgment. But I had to follow through it. But it turns out that I got an A in it because my music teacher... Was black?

No, he was gay. Oh, shit. Sugar Steve. Oh, sugar steed. Oh, man, from downtown. All right, so Gregory Abbott at Columbia in 1986. You know, that Jeffrey Osborne would do that was so disappointing to me. Oh, you know?

Really? How do you go from love ballad and back in love? But you see, but the thing is, is that you, whether you want to admit it or not I mean you're hip but you're a suit I mean you're not the artist I mean at a label you're either going to be the artist

or you're going to be the suit now I mean what were the conditions at a record label that told that particular artist that I need to cross over and

and win for survival's sake. I don't think people cross over just for, you know, just for the joy of it. I think it's, it's... No, it's a calculated decision. It's like some sink-s-swim kind of... Well, yeah, but it's for survival. No, absolutely.

And, I mean, particularly in the 80s, I mean, that was at the time where you had, like, a lot of black artists. I mean, they was making, like, that fucking ABC Friday night music. You know what I mean? Like, fucking stare it up by, you know, Patty and then

No, I know what you're talking about. Pointer Sisters. Oh, New Trond dance. ABC Friday night. Yeah, like the network. That Luther feel good. Family matters.

It was that kind of thing. Exactly. So. Natalie Cole pink Cadillac. Exactly. Pink Cadillac. Well, then again, we did learn from Shep Gordon that

that black artists really weren't making money on tour. Right. So records. was their their sole means of you know, generating income. Yeah, if you didn't have a hit, I mean.

And I guess if you're watching Thriller. Right. You know, you two would say like, oh, I want my piece of the pie as well. Yeah, but Harold Faultonmayer. Come on, let's go on the studio. Axel's team. So, yeah, well, he had one hit, though.

Yeah, play me the Abbott's song. So maybe I did hear it. Yes, you definitely heard. You've heard it. Now you've heard it shake you down. It was the number one ahead. Yeah, it was the original return of the Mac, for real. Where is he?

It was. Turner the Mac was funnier than that. I mean, just in terms of the vocal delivery. Atlips, though, was. Well, wait, who was hidden on Columbia? Well, you like, where you like, this shit is soft. In 85, in 86. It would have been, it would have probably been Springsteen, right?

Yeah, Springsteen. That Bonnie Tyler record. Remember that one? Oh, what's called? That was there? That was, uh, Lisa, Lisa was there, right? Lisa Lisa and Colton. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And full force. Full force, yeah. That, uh, the album would head to tour. And, um, big audio dynamite. Remember them? Elvis Costello.

Yeah. Who? Of course. Elvis Costello put out two albums that year. Okay. On Columbia. So at the time you were working at, so you didn't get to choose what department or, no, I got stuck in, um, in a dance music promotion.

That's where they put me. Who was your supervisor? Who was the executive? This woman, Gail Bruiswitz. She was the only female in the promotion department. And, you know, last day of my, I would sit in her office. You know, I'd look at all the plaques on the wall and I'd be like, it's me, this is going to be me very soon and I'm going to have this and I'm going to have that.

Who did you have to look up to back then? Was Sylvia Rhone the only one that was remotely about to win? Well, even in 86, she was still not an executive yet. No, there was really nobody. No, she wasn't a receptionist by then. Probably. No. Okay.

Anyway, so the last day of my internship, also in that time I turned 21 and I had a big birthday party and Run DMC came and Houdini and the Beastie Boys and. Man, it's a lit-ass birthday boy, I'm saying. Wait, how do you just know these people off the bed? Because I was out in the clubs and, you know, and I had met Russell totally randomly walking down Bleaker Street with the guy from London Records who knew Russell because London used to distribute Def Jam before they went to

Columbia. And so Mike, my friend Mike introduced me to Russell and, you know, my mind's going like, you know, a million miles a minute. Like this is your moment, this is your chance, you better fucking talk your ass off. And like, so I set, he has to sit down and I just like went in on every liner note I had ever read, every artist, producer, musician, everything. And, you know, and he looks at me and he's like what do you do I said you know I'm in school and he's like

how you know so much about black music I was like well this you know I grew up listening to this that this and that he said you know I would I'd hire you for my company you know if I could so stay in touch and you know

and you did you bug him until I didn't I didn't you know I didn't bug that was like the summer of 86 and I did the internship and, you know, I guess the story I was going to tell was the woman who I interned for asked me to come into her office and she closed the door and she started crying.

Oh? Yep. And she said, stay away from this business. It's no place for a woman. I'm trying to save you now before you experience any real heartbreak like I experienced.

I'm like, oh, shit. You're crazy. Now, let it out. What is? What is what do you, I mean, without name and names or whatever, like what treatment, what is the environment at a major label? The major label of the moment. Yeah. Was this under?

Yeah. Yeah. He had just left and Al Teller was the president at the time. So the Yettnickov era between Yettnickov and Mottola. Mottola came in 87, right? I'm not sure. I think so. So that was a very short, that was like 85, 86.

Mm-hmm. Practically. Yeah. Wait, why did Yachtnikov get dismissed? I don't know. I thought he was part of the whole, you know, pay-for-play thing that got, that everybody got caught up in. The scandal? Yeah.

Well, has that ever stopped? No. No. I thought I told you that we won't stop. Well, can you talk? about that that's interesting being a woman in the time starting as an intern and then the transition to being the first woman at deaf jam did it make a difference yeah made a huge difference because you know I so in April comes of 87 I come home from school no to the

refrigerator Rick Rubin called I think it's a joke I asked my roommate is this for real he said yeah I think it is call Rick he said yeah you know everybody at Columbia thought you're great. Russell really likes you. We know you're really smart. You want to come work for Def Jam, just like that. So I said, sure. He said, do you want to know how much you're going to make? I said, sure. You know, I don't care. Okay, so school me at least before you get to Def Jam. What's the average pay salary? Like, oh, I don't know. They started me at 18,000 a year Def Jam? 1986. 1987. And you were living in? I was living in the village on Sullivan Street between Bleaker and West Third and a fifth floor walk up with two other roommates.

Yikes. Didn't matter. Didn't matter. I would have paid them to go work for them. I didn't care. Really? Yeah. What was it about Def Jam at the time that spoke to me?

The Jam was everything. I mean, look at the artists that they had and, you know, it was, you know, it's a cliche, but it's true. I mean, people would go into the store, you know, and if it's music factory. or wherever it was and there's a Def Jam logo on that vinyl, you buy it. You know? I have questions about that though.

About the Def Jam label? Yes. We'll get that too later. That didn't sustain, I'm saying, at this particular moment in time. Right. You know. Okay.

Well, no, but what I want to know is just what was it that made her warn you? Oh, oh, those guys were scumbags. They were awful. They were, you know, I would get hit on constantly by, you know, other promotion guys. Again, it's like the characters in vinyl only real life,

leftover from the 70s still, you know, in that mindset, the total misogyny that's, you know. So at any point did they, did you, did they use you as a focus group? Like, hey, what do you think about this guy? And it's like Terrence St. Darby or, you know, like. They didn't ask me anything.

I was stuffing envelopes going to like, Latin quarter, you know, I was off doing my own thing. Okay, I see. It was just, it was enough for me to realize that this is what I wanted to do with my life, but I was going to do it differently. So what I was experiencing at a major label? What were your duties at Def Jam then? It started off with them wanting to start a publishing company. And neither of them knew how to do it. So they wanted me to go sit with people who worked for publishing companies and figure out how it worked and then come back and start one for Def Jam, which is what I did. So you had to learn it on the spot?

I learned on the spot. I sat with lawyers and publishing executives and, you know, my big earrings. How does that work? My high top spot built. Wow. That's a reference. That should give you a good visual. That definitely gave me a good visual.

But by the time you got to death jam, the treatment was different, right? Because you said that, you said the guys were a little bit, they were worse. First of all, like, around the same age, you know, so there wasn't that weird thing of, like, these older dudes and younger females. You know, we were all, and it was just a different environment. I think we all felt like we were, and again, not to sound like a cliche, you know, but that we were really a part of something special. How long before you got your jacket? I got my jacket right away. I got the black wool.

Wow. Black wool. Yeah. Yeah. For those that don't know, in 1987, 88, 89, the Def Jam logo on your back. That held, wow, that held power like no other. Well, you know, again, I'm saying it like I lived it, which clearly I wasn't there, Was it like a limited number of giving out?

Like, and only certain, like, you got to be a point in management or something like that. No, you just see how to actually work for the company and just be maybe one step removed from working for the company. Interns, too? No, I don't think interns got jackets. I don't think we had interns. We weren't enough of it. There was only five of us. We didn't need, who needed interns.

Oh, okay. But what was the power of the Def Jam jacket? Oh, that could get you, like, chase down the street. Demos. Oh, okay. It's negative connotation. Everyone else I talk to is like, yeah, man, I can get in any club, whatever. I didn't think about that.

I was already, like, able to do that. So you wouldn't pimp, like, you wouldn't wear that jacket as your... No, I didn't need to. I already, in terms of all the clubs and stuff, I was already looped in, so... And established, okay. Yeah. So you started their publishing company for them? Yes.

I didn't know that was something that had to be established or even. It doesn't. It just they thought of it as, you know, another money-making opportunity for the company that they weren't taking advantage of and other people were. And that's what they wanted to do. So they wanted to start their own Motown version of Jobette or? Yes, exactly. So did that mean all the Def Jam artists had to sign their publishing over to Def Jam before?

Well, that was the intent, yes. Did that happen? No. Okay. Because the artists were like, get the hell out of here. Right. The artist that time had attorneys and things like that, you know. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagine. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects, from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends,

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The concept of original concept, was it, were they a DJ crew with, all the advertisements I saw was like stressing that, you know, they're a DJ. outfit with some emcees like

yeah that sounds right well it was with Dr. Dre from yeah from YOM TV Raps and T-Money I forget the other I forget there are other names too damn faith I know I'm sorry it's 30 years ago

damn you made me feel bad for what were you doing in 1985 okay so but there's there's no story or recollection of I mean at one point at that Def Jam building the heat got turned on as far as like you know that was funny you should say that because we didn't have any heat in that building

really literally so it was great we had to wear our troop jackets you know really yeah until when until we moved out of that building how like at what point are you promoted to to doing A&R yeah Um, well, also, well, aside from the publishing thing, I also kind of, I set up the whole like A&R admin part of the company that didn't exist prior to out. I was like, there's five of you though, right? Yeah. So it was me doing, creating the admin structure. How'd you know to do this? I learned to talk to lawyers and people at labels and figured it out.

So it's just the learning curve. But by this point, like, isn't CBS part? of the yeah yeah we were distributed and I spent a lot of time up at Columbia did they give you guys your own cubicle section or do you always stay in the Def Jam building no we always come up to their building to use their resources and yeah just to yeah exactly okay so how do you how do you like how do you establish the admin this stuff I don't even know that you should be doing now like I didn't know that well there was no like a PO

system for the studio. So the studio costs were like out of control. Nobody was really monitoring it. So there was a lot of the company just kind of bleeding money in a lot of places because nobody was like minding the store. So it was up to you to handle the business of Devcham. Yeah. And you took that initiative on your own?

Yes. You just got tired of studios like, you guys owe me $17,000. Well, the guy who was supposed to be handling a lot of this stuff, one day, Rick called me upstairs and said, I guess I had been there for four months, and he said, I'm giving you a promotion, I'm giving you a raise,

and I'm firing George, and I want you to take his job. Yeah. Did you have to fire George? I didn't have to fire George. Rick hired. Rick fired George. Okay.

Yeah. And that's how I started doing all the admin stuff that he hadn't been doing. He was, you know, too busy doing other things. So is this where bigger and deffer enters the picture? Yep. All right. Now I know that a big part of Rick's disdain for that follow-up record.

One, he didn't work on it, but two, he hated I Need Love. Now, when you guys are getting your daily report, I'm assuming that you guys are operating like a real record label where you listen to daily reports and listen to the daily reports and listen to new music and this is where we are with the LL record. Are you guys in a room at the same time where they're like, yo, this is the one?

Like, what are y'all thinking? I wasn't thinking that it was the one. I think Columbia was really a big part of pushing that. Really? That's interesting because I read somewhere that you said you're a very melodic type person. So a lot of these songs, in my mind I thought, were you the one that became the voice

of women in a way that okay so you know how they say there are female records you know the ones with the hooks that you can sing so before you enter the room was there nobody was there anybody who thought like that because I would think that I need that would have been one of yours but

yeah I mean to me you know I was like a real hip hop head so it sounded you know to me it sounded corny to me really it's not corny to a lot but you didn't see the dollar signs like yo this is going to win Yep

Hip-up's first real ballot Yeah For the ladies Yeah Yeah Up to that point You didn't really have Well it's not true

No I mean he had I want you And I can give you more But It was too beat It was too beat heavy Like I can give you more And still got play on

Like the street hip hop hour Of Philadelphia So You know It's Wow, that's amazing to be. So you just, you had Luke Ward. Not even, I'm not saying did you personally like it?

Did you think it was going to be effective to help the product sell? Or did you think, oh, he's losing his, he might lose his credibility with us. That's what I thought. Word. Yeah. But I was a purist, so. I didn't even know that there was. A such thing is purist back now?

Well, not even a purest. I mean, hip hop wasn't selling out back then. This was the first, this was the first risky, like this song would mark the first risk of the compromise of hip hop. But I don't think, I think it kind of was selling out back then because, you know, I don't think that the pot of money wasn't as big as it was back then, you know, as it is now, you know what I mean? So I think, like, particularly with L.L. in particular,

I remember reading, I think it was in his book or something, and he was saying something to the effect of when he was younger, like he would like diss movies and people who did movies or whatever. And when, of course, you know, knowing where he went to his movie and TV career, when they checked, asked him on it, he said, well, the reason why I dissed it was because I didn't think it was possible for me at the time. So like in 86, I think it was a much more risk of quote-unquote selling out back then

because the stakes weren't really as high. It was kind of like, I don't think no one knew that there was that much money. I mean, if he did rap and duke. Those were novelty records, though. Yeah, if he did something silly like that. You know what it is, though, is that it wouldn't have mattered because radio wasn't going to play hip hop anyway.

Exactly. Yeah. I don't know. When I, okay, so I think Brian, cut creator's cousin, went to my high school. So he had an early copy of Bigger and Defer. And when I first heard, I need love. love. Like, and again, I wasn't thinking in terms of the future.

Like, I straight plagiarized that joint. And wrote down every lyric. To a girl? Oh, wow. No, I was the man for like a month and a half. Before the record came out. But I'm a lot. I don't know anybody's like, why does it sound so funny?

Do that shit in your face. Yeah, I don't think it was a, because I mean, I remember when that record came out and I was just, so happy to hear hip hop on the radio that it didn't you know I remember I remember I'm bad the first time I heard I'm bad and I was like oh shit but then I need love and I was like oh shit they're playing this on the radio

because you just and it was number one for two weeks on Billboard's the they called it the black charts then yeah I was like race records race records yeah wow

all right so once it catches fire and you realize that we're all gullible. Then what were you thinking? I was thinking I was thinking I was glad I was on the album. So you thought that there could be a chance that this album might not do as good as radio?

I think it became clear that that wasn't going to be the case. It was going to be much bigger. All right, so because all these doors were open to him, were those doors open to him? Or was it just a perception in my mind that the world was his oyster? Like, I remember you telling me that, you know, what was the, what was the rat budget for L.L. Cool J's follow up out? Like, what's? What for walking with the panther? No, no, no.

I mean, for bigger and deference? Bigger and deference. Like I remember you telling me that like you know all the LA pot first of all why was the LA Posse chosen? I don't know how that happened. Was LL just always out in Cali a lot? Yeah. And hooked up with them and why didn't Rick Rubin get chosen to produce the next record? I don't know.

I think he thought he wanted maybe he wanted more artistic control. He wanted to be somebody he brought into the mix. not sure. Really? Mm-hmm. But, like, there wasn't anyone at the label to tell him, like, yo, like... I don't think Rick wanted to do it. It's not broken.

Don't, you know... I don't think Rick wanted to do it. Really? Yeah. It's not strange to you? Yeah, it's really strange to me. Now, looking back on it, yeah. Okay.

When we get Rick Rubin, that's exactly what I'm asking. Okay. Why didn't you follow up? Yeah. I mean, this all happened, you know, this whole... thing went down in 86 before I got there so Rick was also busy doing like Slayer records and stuff he was really into his death metal shit you know Danzig Slayer in fact you know when I had my interview with him my first the first when he called me and he said well you come you know come and

we'll talk about the job and so I went to him and uh I was you know I just had so much I wanted to ask him and so much I wanted to say and I was talking about different records and he said, you know, I'm not really into like the hip hop thing right now. Really? Mm-hmm. Damn.

You fooled me. Into the hip-hop, yeah. Damn. That's what he said. And he told me about these, these, you know, these metal acts that he was working with. He came back.

Why are you heartbroken? It took like 20 years. Yeah. So that's why I say, I think that he was just in a different mind state. Like I think from what I've read, like there was just a lot of tension between him and Russell and he was just starting to lose a lot

lose interest in the hip hop thing at all. Yeah, that's absolutely correct. And he told me as much, so. Just a phase. Lose the lymph of all gone. Oh, God, you just, cause you so soon. Yeah.

I see. So, of course, you come aboard after the license to ill. I thought that perhaps maybe the after effects of license to ill, and this is, Well, I mean, at the time, it sold at least $7, $8 million. Mm-hmm. So I would figure that would single-handedly give you guys the juice monetarily,

at least to stand on your own to and allow you to sign everything. Yep. And they did. So, again, I have these romantic visions of the perception of Nation of Millions. Mm-hmm. That was the first album I got thanked on. I was excited. Well, that's the first rap album with real liner notes that I've ever seen.

The album that I feel is though really at least got the rock critics' attention as far as really, I mean, the message as a single did some, you know, did some work in helping to make hip-hop credible. the eyes of rock critics, but, I mean, if you were around and aware of music journalists in 1988, you saw nothing like the ripple effect of what Nation of Millions had on rock critics. I think that particular year, it topped the Paas and Jop critics poll. The Paas and Jop is kind of the music critic version of, what I would deem rotten tomatoes where you just sum up in total every music critic

across the country they give their top ten list and reasons for why they felt these albums were important and Nation of Millions was the first hip-hop record I believe in the album to top the polls so at the time when you guys are getting this I've heard a lot of stories

including well DMC told me that it was him and Jamaster Jay that even allowed Rebel Without a Paws to be because Russell hated Rebel Without a Pause. So I'm assuming again that you're saying that Russell's taste and Rick's taste were... Very different.

Well, I mean, it's the story, you know, it's a true story that Russell never liked Public Enemy from the beginning and thought that they should be, you know, wearing Adidas sweatsuits. And, you know, he just had his own vision of what it should be, and Rick had another vision. It's just crazy to me.

Like, how, okay, how you see, like, three white kids from Brooklyn and you see dollar sign, but you can't see, you know, these... Scary. This crew from Long Island. Well, I mean, yeah, I guess on paper, a group from Long Island could be the most political, important group of our time. And you just don't see...

how that works. Now, public enemy was probably, I can see them being a very tough cell. It was scary sounding. It was noisy. Yeah. For 88, it was, it was some radical shit.

And they're black. Like, maybe if they were white, it'd be an easier sale for Russell since he is black. Sometimes we get in our own way, right? I don't know. Well, yeah. But I'm just saying that for me, I just,

I thought there was an instant easy sell because the way that Chuck D kind of centered the group, which, I mean, when I saw them, I didn't, I mean, not saying I didn't pay attention, but only when too much posse came on and then I realized, wait, one of these guys talks way more shit than the other members do. I couldn't tell. Like, you see the album cover, you just see like six black guys.

You're like, oh, wonder which one is talking. Who was the one? Right. Right. But I noticed, like, wait, one of these guys talks way more shit than the other guys do in this group and then that became my attraction like anytime the shit talking one spoke it was funny

and so and but that was by design like they purposely yeah it was the full. Flav was the full. They used flavor Flav. He was in kind of sugar. I always wanted to know this story about public enemy because somebody recently said that to me that everything was so purposeful in the way that the group was put together

is that true? Like how much was it purposeful and how much was just organic? I think a lot of it was very purposeful I think well there was You know, they had the, they had the radio show, you know, and that's how Chuck. WBAI. Yeah, and that's how Chuck connected with flavor. So that was organic.

That was before they kind of actually started the group. Yeah, spectrum city stuff. Spectrum City, yeah. But the whole idea of adding the S-1Ws and the whole thing, that was, you know, that was show business. It was smart. It was very smart. Well, this leads to, all right, before we get to your Columbia. illmatic period.

One of my favorite stories of all time. The reason why I even wanted to do this show is just though that one day MC Search could come on. A guy who has so many stories of

Yeah. You won't come on? Yes. When? Calm down my year. I'm sorry. I love search too. So according to search Um, Hammer hears his mom's being called out like that. Pete Nice was trying to explain to Hammer that it was a pun of turn this mother out. The cactus turned Hammer's mother out. But Hammer wasn't happening.

What was the other way? What was the... Yeah, what was the good way of looking at it? Yeah, yeah. Well, anyway, they put a hit out on their lives. And I guess the legend is that. hit out on third basis last. Oakland.

Oakland. Yeah. And so as search gets on the plane, Search and Pete and I get on the plane, I think they're flying out to L.A. to do the party machine. Okay. Which is Arsenio Hall's post show.

Post-up. Yeah. Mrs. Howard Hewitt. Yeah. Wait, what? Briefly. Yeah. Wait, were you around?

80s? Oh, they got married. Before a while, though. Right, right. They didn't have a kid or two? It was like right after she did Fane. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, so the five-hour duration of this flight, I'm not going to give the entire story away because search will tell it way better than me. But there was a lot of kumbaya and having to go on to keep them from getting killed, which ended with Michael Concepciutto. on sitting sitting next to

yeah in his wheelchair sitting next to Michael Jackson who wasn't even supposed to be if you remember the American Music Awards with when Eddie Murphy and Michael Jackson are giving each other like artists of the decade awards or whatever none of that stuff

was ever supposed to happen so I guess Russell since that the threat to their lives was so big that Russell called Donnie and Tommy to please make something happen. And of course, in talking to Michael Concepcion, the only person that could put the halt to the hit.

One of his stipulations was one, find me a label to do, we're all in the same game. Oh, wow. Which is weird because Russell could just easily said, I'll put it on my label, but instead Russell's like, go to Warner, right? Like, I want nothing to do with you. It was all West Coast Axel, right?

I'd say third base wasn't on there. Well, no, it was not even third base. Def Jam didn't even have any acts on that record. I would have just thought in a five-hour flight to L.A. And you're trying to save someone's life. He was still like, mm-mm, go to Warner Brothers. I'll hook you up. There's somebody over there that will take your record.

He would have nothing to benefit from that. Oh, well, especially if you heard the rest of that all in the same gang album. Don't you know you got to get to. Did you buy that as well? I did not buy it. I dodged that bullet, a buddy of mine bought it and I listened. It's about Bill. It's about Bill.

Bill, did you purchase, we're all on the same gang album? No, just a 12-inch. Okay. It was that, the album was that bad? Yeah, that album was more songs with the same group of people? It wasn't, nah. It was just like solo tracks from other people that didn't record about it. No one knew?

Oh, damn. Nah. Any way. It was not at all. Oh, okay. Like Def Jeff's weed rollers? Right. Right.

or anyway so Michael so then the legend is that Donnie and Tommy Motola had to then call it Dick Clark to oh because Michael Concepcion

insisted on sitting next to Michael Jackson American Music Awards and they're like well he's not coming he's not up for anything so that's not going to happen he's like well I'm sorry I can't help you okay we'll make it happen and then they had to beg Dick Clark to give Michael and a special award.

But then once Bob Jones and Michael Jackson reluctantly agreed to do this, then their stipulation was, well, someone important has to give it to us. Wow. We want Eddie Murphy to give us this award. And Eddie Murphy's so busy doing... Was it Billings?

No, Harlem Knights. Harlem... Ah, that's right, yes. He couldn't leave the set. So then they had to call the Paramount. Like, this just... Oh, my God. Just, yeah. The amount of domino fuckery.

Yeah. Just for this moment. So was this worth this faith? No, I'm not saying. Right. Right. All this shit over there. Third base album jam.

Yeah. Even a side, like a filler cut. So the whole third base project. Did you sign third base? No, but I worked with him. How did they come into your? How did they even come to the Def Jam? They came to Def Jam, as far as I can recall, through Sam Sever.

Okay. But was this some Chico Barge DeAngelo Revenge Mission thing? For the Beast. Yeah, right, right. Like, the Beastie Boys left us, so now we need a new white group with credibility. Yeah, that had something to do with it. And Search was really, I mean, I met him in 80, I want to say 80. at Union Square.

Okay. When people, guests come on the show, everyone has a Latin quarter story. Were you a Latin quarter head? Absolutely. Oh. How come I'm not meeting anyone that's like, hell no, I never went to the Latin Quarter?

I lived in the Latin Quarter. Would I have been that person? Yes. Dante Ross told you that. You wouldn't have gone there. Yeah. So you still would go to Latin Quarter, even though there was a risk factor involved.

Mm-hmm. But I mean, you... And it was worth it. It was worth it every time, except for the night that they shut it down where I was at that night. Everybody was there at the night they shut down the corner. Wait, what happened the night they shut down? As I remember it. Yeah. L.L. was there and somebody snatched his chain, which happened a lot of the Latin Quarter, you know.

And it set off the sequence of events with like this, I don't know, people like, this mass of people. running to get away. I think somebody had a knife or something. And like, and then everybody just spilling out into Times Square afterwards. But I remember there was like, you went upstairs to the, you came in, then you went upstairs. That's where the main area was. And there was this like this marble, like mirrored thing on the side of the stairs. It was just covered with blood, like all the way down. And no bullets. No bullets. No bullets. That's like hard work blood. Yeah. Sounds like hard work blood. know stabbing and punching yeah that might be the quartered episode right as I remember that was

the last night it was last night I ever went there the last night for anybody I went too yeah yeah you only got one time right and still it wasn't as bad as a rooftop and you still went to the rooftop I stopped going to the rooftop what was the rooftop like it was crazy but there was a lot of a lot of shit went down the rooftop All right, so what's the pros of going to the rooftop In the Latin Quarter? What's the pros? The pros, especially Latin Quarter,

I mean, P.E. did their first show there. I heard that didn't go over too well, though. I thought it was great. I didn't mind. It didn't go over great. It wasn't, you know. Okay. So I've been to the tunnel during the tunnel period.

Tunnel era, yeah. Yeah. So was it the equivalent of going to the tunnel? Yes. Nightclub with big speakers that were just. Yes. Just crazy. You imagine they're playing like nobody beats the biz, like loud as shit.

All right. It was the shit. So there was worth it. So as a woman, as a white person, as someone that works at Def Jam with this jacket. Well, even though you were past Def Jam, I'm certain that you had some sort of swagish or about you. that let people know that, oh, there's Faith Newman from da-da-da-da or whatever. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, that didn't bother you.

Like, first of all, how does anyone get that close to LL for him to even get his chain? Like, is there not a VIP section? Or you're not even saving VIP? I don't think there's, was there a VIP section? I don't remember him being in a special section. Wow. I don't remember that. So you just, wait, I would figure that LL was passed.

Maybe it's the stuff of legend. I don't know. It's like... What year would have been? 86. So yeah, he wouldn't have been past Latin quarter. Or 87. Sorry, 87.

My mistake. 87. No, he wouldn't have been past it. Yeah. I don't know. I just imagine, like, L.L. just being too big or too good for that. Yeah, but do you go there and you, like, show up and you're like the fucking man?

Oh, I'm still down. Yeah. Yeah. I see. So, even. Even with Union Square and any of those? Union Square was the bomb too. But you had, you know, you had the Bronx and Queens like separated by levels.

Yeah, because that's what Kid and Play rhymed about. That's my experience of Union Square. I just know the Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff Chink on the... Yeah, on the He's the Zella. The rapper, yeah. Yo, but there's something to what you just asked Fafo, because I'm curious, like, how you were back then because, like, your shit didn't stink.

And you were very young. You were having parties, where grandma has to flash. was DJing at your house and stuff like that. So like how was the ego and the humbleness back then? Because you knew that you were to. No, it was different. Like I knew that I was, but I was humble at the same time. Like, I think, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I was one of the only, you know,

I was the only woman at Def Jam at the time. That was something, you know. So that still held weight and honor. Yes. Okay, but you also mentioned people chasing you with their demos And that's the thing Yeah Like when Marley Mall did this episode

And I'm like, yo dude You're still living in the projects when all these hits are out How are these people not stalking you To make them stars? Because normally the people that will stalk you Which is weird hearing that The way that you approach Russell Simmons

One What or who's protecting you From stalkers especially with Def Jam the label that everyone dreamed of being on which I'm certain that you guys got way more noes than yes speaking of which

who did y'all say no to that is there is the list of they're not Def Jam material like I mean this is going to sound you know Rick it could give me but vanilla ice wow

was he close to coming to Def Jam or was it like... No, it was a demo. It was like a just a demo like any other demo. So you would actively listen to demos? How long did you listen to his? Not very long. I think I was with this guy

Jorge who came to be known as Curious. Yeah, I was about to say. George. He was my intern actually at Def Jam at the time. That album was dope too. I liked the conservation one album. Did you? I did. It was good. So What did you and George say when... He said it was bananas and he threw it in the trash.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl,

Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes, mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the themes that always comes up during Questlove Supreme is the idea of your heart having good taste, good or bad, versus your brain. which is, is this effective or non-effective? Now, as an employee, are you not thinking, I have to pick some winners for us to sell versus you wanting just to have this pedigree of great work

to be on this label? So was there pressure to... I was a pedigree person, and I couldn't help it. And as the label kind of became, you know, know, distorted by the next, you know, decade. Or the next, or that difficult transition period, you know, in 91. It definitely affected me. I felt like, you know, that I felt that the brand had been really compromised.

Yes, forever. I mean, it came back, but at that time it was the reason I left. Was there a moment when you're like, oh, this is it. I'm done. The Don. In there. Does anyone remember the Don? I did not remember the Don.

Not Godfather Don. He had a song called In There. All right, how did the Don? He had a song with Ted Nugent on it. Oh, my goodness. On Def Jam. Well, it wasn't Def Jam, it became R-A-L. Rush associated labels.

Am I to assume that the reason for the Don's being was to get some tone look money or? Yeah. Because in there sounded like at least Funky Colmedina's cousin. Yeah, I saw it a lot on like video hot track. Yeah, the box.

Especially the box, yes. That shit sounded like Funky Cole Cisco. Nah, bro. So who signed the Don? Lear. Oh, my God. And now the- Totally, totally, totally forgot to ask you.

I forgot Leo worked at Def Jam. No, he worked at Rush. Yes. We hadn't gotten to him yet, right? Like, we're just getting. No, we surpassed it. No, he's been at Rush. Yeah.

He just didn't have anything to do with the label side until he did. Until he did. What are your Leo stories? I met older, Leor, nicer to me. Leor, I don't have a Leor. to give you Leor? We've heard your Lear invitation. No, he was a different person then.

So I can say it wasn't a pleasant experience? Correct. Yes. In hindsight, do you feel as though he was an effective person to work for? Being as though the heights that Def Jam has later going to. Do you think Def Jam would have naturally going to the Heights, JZ, DMX? No. without someone

No, I credit him ruthless at the helm There was a period in time where it just It was really rocky And I had been there almost five years at that point And it was time for me to go Where did you guys disagree? Where did you guys disagree

As far? Because obviously your exit had to be in a disagreement Leah It was it was one of those things where I had been I was the liaison between Def Jam and Columbia. So I was always up there anyway. Went to their A&R meetings, went to their, you know, retreats that they had and stuff.

Oh, so when those guys didn't feel like. So I was, I was the person who. You were the deaf jam person. I was a deaf jam person at Columbia. Kind of like, okay, so, you know, like comedians always joke, black comedians will joke, like have one white friend on standby because somebody's going to have to talk to the police. Right. So you were the.

I guess. The liaison. Columbia whisper. Columbia Whisper. The Columbia Whisper. Yes. Put a nice face on. All right.

So you're the liaisons there. And then where's the... And they always said to me, Donnie would say, if you ever want to make a change, you know, come work for us. Come to death row. Yeah.

Wow. And then... If you don't want your executives throwing sandwiches. All in the tours. Dancing. Come to Columbia. Well, that's exactly what you did.

Yeah. So there wasn't a straw that broke the candles. Oh, no. Lear and I had an argument about something. He blamed my assistant for losing some L.L. Cool J master tapes or something that she didn't do. It wasn't her fault. He insisted I fire her. We had a back and forth.

And I just said, I'm done with this. And I was done. So, Sony. Yeah, CBS and CBS building when I first started. They had just done the deal with Sony. Okay, I keep on forgetting to call them CBS first. Is CBS still a thing now? Is it just straight up?

Records, no, they divested of all their music properties. So you took Donnie's advice and went to death roll. Came on over. Went to the dark side. Did you regret it? No, not at all. And I thought it was kind of, interesting because, you know, I had intern there, you know, years ago as this intern trying

to come up in the world. And you were discouraged from coming back. And I was scared from coming back and I came back as an executive. What? It's the best. 25, 25. You go, Faith Newman. Thanks. Yeah. That's it. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, it's, that's, it's, it's, it's Frederick Tronford, did you have the working girl theme from Carly Simon playing in your office? Looking at the skyline of New York City. Exactly. My coffee money. You signed a lot of acts, and one of the acts

that I was shocked to find out that you signed a favorite of mine was Jamarquai. What, first of all, what was the first act that you? you did sign to. Nas. Even before Jamiriqui? It was kind of around the same time, actually. Nas was like the first act that I was two weeks into the job when I signed Nause.

And that was like in October and in December I signed Jamiroquai. 92? 91. Wow, it took three years for that to even. What was it about Jemiriqui that made you? Fly to London the week before Christmas. Damn. Yeah.

It's a demo. You know, they were signed to Asa Jazz in the UK. Mm-hmm. And Kieran Hurley from Asa-Jaz came to see me. He said, I just want you to listen to this. It was a demo, you know, cassette demo, one song of when you're going to learn. Yes. I thought it was a woman singing.

I couldn't, you know. Exactly. You know? Yes. I said, who is she? It's not she. It's a he. And he's white.

And so that was it. It was the one song, and I said, I got to go, and I got to sign this guy. And that's really how it happened. And to you, like, did you expect them or have visions of them blown up in the States, or was it just like? I think I did. I mean, I was so into the music. I thought for sure that it would translate. You don't get these Ferrari.

He got him. He got him. Jesus Christ. Just not from here. He, um, when we, when the roots toured in Europe, in Italy in 95, I believe, uh, with Jamiroquai, there's a drive, uh, from one city in Italy to the other side of it. It was just like a, uh, 14-hour trek. Um, Jay actually purchased a Ferrari at the one city we were at and drove behind his tour bus the entire 14-hour duration. He made that much off of the album, that one, virtual insanity? He was huge overseas. Yeah, they were huge overseas.

Wow, so right now he doesn't have to do it. Virtual insanity, that was like four hours out of four, yeah. Wow, okay. Emergency on Planet Earth was the first one. So he's like a Craig David in that way. Like we might not know, but he is really killing it. Yeah, America was late. America was late, and they never really got it.

It's weird. Like, America has like a one-hit wonder in America. Right, yeah. Virtual insanity was like that slid all over the floor. I'm like, the guy with the hat. It's got the hat. I thought the Space Cowboy was incredible. Yeah, Space Cowboy was.

Absolutely. Shout out to BETT for putting me on that. Yeah. Video vibration. Yeah. Well, being as though they blew up in Europe. Like, were there, was there a separate, would Columbia treat like different divisions, different, I mean? Yeah, that it was more in the hands of the international department than, I think they knew after the first album that it was a tough sell over here.

So they didn't have a, they didn't have a radio record. That's what I kept hearing. There's no radio record. There's no radio record. There's no radio record. Well, shout out to my boy, Fred at MTV. Fred Jordan, who that was the person that showed us the virtual insanity video. But like, how did, was that just a stroke of luck that?

Yeah. Well, I was gone from Columbia at that time. Mm-hmm. All right. I see. So with Nas, what was it that told you to, was it search or like, what was the relationship? Well, I heard him on the main source album, like most people. And I lost my mind.

I said, I got to find this kid. And I was still working at Def Jam at the time. And so I asked Polly, a large professor, what's up with this kid, Nasty Nas? You know, can I meet him? And he was kind of pushing me on signing Achenelli. man and not and not gnaz you know so um so that was kind of like a tail end of my time at deaf jam i took a month off before i started to columbia and apparently in that time from what naus tells me

he went up to deaf jam with large professor to find me specifically i was already gone And so this happened, and then I, you know, I was at Columbia. I was two weeks in, and search came in my office. And because he knew that I was trying to find now. I wanted this kid. And he said, I have his demo and played it for me, two songs. And I went down the hall to the head of the ANR department and said, You know, you have to let me sign this kid.

You don't have to let me sign anything else the entire time I'm here. You have to let me sign this kid. Was it that hard of a sale, though? Yeah, to corporate people at Columbia. I mean, it was 91. Columbia didn't really have much of a hip-hop department outside of that. That was why they hired me. No, please.

Freedom Williams solo album. Yeah. Yeah, so you're saying that it was a hard sell to even. get Naz. Yeah. Well, but it wasn't, it wasn't because part of the reason they hired me was they wanted their own rap division because they had deaf jam.

Well, they also had roughhouse. They had so-so deaf. But they didn't want that. They wanted all, they wanted to have their own. They didn't want to share with anybody. But as, as, as, wait, so is Michael? Michael Malden. Yeah, was he there at that point?

Not yet. So, okay, I would think that as a label, having these sub-labels would satisfy that itch. So if you're Donnie and your Tommy, I would just think like, oh, matter of fact, wasn't Nas initially on Ruffehouse? Or was that just strictly for the zebra head? That was me having this moment of, oh, no. nobody's going to know what to do with this record. Let's just put it out on Roughhouse. At least we'll get, you know, the right marketing people and the right promotion people.

Because they wanted me to have this division, but I didn't have, there wasn't really anybody in-house. Right. No staff, no. Right. So I said, let's put it out through Roughhouse. What did you imagine or hope for with this record? Because. For Nause?

Yeah, I think the idea of Illmatic and even the process of it became bigger than Yeah, as time went on, it's like it, you know, it came just like these mythic proportions. Well, what I didn't know, the thing that makes Illamatic so special, or at least what made it such a game changer that people rarely discuss is the fact that this will mark the first time that multiple producers will handle a hip-hop album, whereas the status quo was like one producer sees the whole project through. Did this idea seem as radical to you at the time to not let one person produce the entire record? No, it felt really natural actually.

But it's never happened before. Right. It just because all of these people wanted to work with him. So it only made sense that everybody who wanted to work with him, all these great producers, got an opportunity to be a part of the project. Who was lining up? Because first of all, it's 10 songs on the record. Really, nine, but 10.

It was supposed to be 12. Yeah, I was going to say, like, who got rejected? It's not a question of rejected. It's, um, the album was so heavily bootlegged and so ubiquitous everywhere. I mean, overseas. I mean, everybody had a copy of that album that we had to rush it out. before it was ready. And that's why there's only nine songs.

Really? Mm-hmm. So you just, I see. Yeah, I read, you said they were cutting more records as the joint came out. Like, you were working on more stuff. Yep. Yeah. It just wasn't enough time.

There would have been another premiere cut for sure. So in a perfect world, you would have made it a traditional hip-hop record of the time, which in 94, I mean, hip-hop records were still like 16 to 18 songs. Yeah. with skits and all that shit. Yeah. Well, yeah, who's the first? We'll say public enemy.

I think Nation of Millions was the first single record that had, like double album status. Well, definitely one of the first album with interludes on it. So, yeah, with 16 songs on it. So that's the thing that struck me about this record, that it was, that made it different. to me because like most classic records in the mind of the music consumer like Stevie Wonder's Inovisions or Thriller or whatever like all those albums clock in at

32 33 minutes and then you're out so you know you were fine with that just we were perfect yeah was he fine with that yeah I think he wanted it done and out too okay so I mean was it smooth like why did it take two years to make and he just um well he had his friend was it an easy record to make that's what was no it was a difficult record to make how so well he had his friend pass away so that you know um that was tough and then he just wasn't sometimes he showed up to the studio and sometimes you didn't show up to the studio you kind of never knew what you were going to get sometimes he was feeling it And he'd write.

And sometimes he wasn't feeling it and he'd go home or wherever. It was just, it was just a long, long, long process. Who was the person that had the chokehold of, I mean, I know, like, with having work with emcees, like, you can't, if you force them, you'll traumatize them into permanent riders block. So this could have easily been a J. Electronica situation. It could have been easily. So how are you, like who's the designated person that was there to kind of take him out of that? You know, I don't know. I think we kind of, with Search and me and, you know, obviously the people at the label who didn't know what was going on

until they told me to drop him, which happened twice. What? Yeah. Yeah. Two years, no album? Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was wondering how she could hold on. Oh, yeah.

It was, well, one was because of a gun thing. Oh, that happened. Want, wah, wah, wah. A little bit they know that that was just going to be, you know, in terms of rappers and guns. Yeah, that's standard. Yeah, that's standard, yeah. At the time, it wasn't so standard.

And they wanted me to, to, they wanted to drop him. And I had to make the case, fight for him. Donnie wanted to drop for it. Yeah. Yikes. Because him in Jungle are so opposite, too, So I always wondered, like, was he always on the edge of situation because of his brother? Jungle was the one with the gun, so there you go.

Which is a funny story, actually, because they had a show. His first show in New York was at a club called Muse, and we sent a car service to pick them up in Queensbridge, bring them. Oh, Lord. This doesn't go cool, good. This doesn't end well. And Jungle had a gun on him. You know, this is after the thing with Will had happened.

And, you know, I always thought up until Rock the Bells three years ago that the gun fell out of his pocket. But Jungle told me what had happened was he asked the driver to hold it for him while they were in the club. Oh, shit. Okay. So the driver took it to the police. Oh, man. Yeah. What?

What? That snitching-ass driver. I hate it with it. You know what I mean? I just want you to hold his cocaine while I did my set. That's all I need. Wait a minute. So when the show's over.

So the show's over, no car, no gun. Jungle starts calling the car company and threatening their lives. And starts... Oh, Junko. Wale, Wale, Uchee, Lange. Oh, jungle. Oh, jungle. Oh, Jabari.

Oh. Wow, man. Did you, as someone from North Carolina or you, Bill, as someone from Indiana, did you have Nas expectations? None whatsoever. Because I'll be honest with you. Nas, yes, I remember it. I went to hell at the age of 12, went to hell.

For snuffing Jesus, yeah. For snuffing Jesus. I remember the line, but I never had a, yo. I cannot wait for that moment. Even after halftime came up? Half time, I never liked half time. I didn't like halftime. I worked at Ruff House.

Oh, okay. I worked at Ruff House. And I was just like, it's cool. Yeah, I didn't really get Nause until it ain't hard to tell. When I heard that, I was like, okay, this shit is dope. But even then I was like, yeah, it was human age. Even then I was like, okay, this is clever. But then when I saw that, when I saw that gang star issue of this,

the source and saw that it got five mics. Then I was like, holy shit. And like, we're in the middle of making Do You Want More? And I'm reading this five mic review, man. And I'm just like, oh, God,

like, there's, I don't know. I just, I read the review first, even before I heard the record. Yeah, same here, same here. And by that point, anything that the source could have told me would be incredible or not credible. That was Bible.

You held it as, and I just felt like the way they were it, it was like, this is the new standard of the gold standard or whatever. And I just felt like, yo, I got to the train platform too late. And this is now, this is the new standard. Whatever this album is. And so I think Tariq was like, yeah, I got a copy of that tape. And then he went in his bag and had like. Oh, a piece of that tape.

And played it. And I was just confused. Like, I was told Illmatic is classic. You never got to make it a classic on your own. Like, it never, you never got to do it on your own merits. It was just told to you. Like, the chronic, again, I was told it was classic. Now, see, the chronic was different for me.

I hated the chronic because I got in on the chronic early. Like, I had saw the G-thing video. and was just like, oh, whatever. Right. It's cool. But then I saw the covers like Dr. Dre, the chronic. I was like, oh, Drey got an album? I'll buy it.

And the chronic was a slow burn. Like, it was, I hated it. When I bought it and I listened to it and I was like, all right, this is cool. And then I remember a couple months later, that shit was fucking everywhere. Ready to die was like that for me too. Oh, hell yeah.

Ready to die. We sat there looking at it. I was like, all right, this is dope. And then it wasn't until the next time. And then they were told, you were told it was classic. Right. But it became, but I got a chance to view it from. myself I think but I'mmatic I didn't really because like you like I remember the

when the review came out and like I said I wasn't big on halftime it ain't hard to tell I like and then I saw the review and I was like damn like he got five mics like that was yeah in the source and that time like that was Bible and I didn't even think like oh that's political or right not yeah yeah I didn't even think that I thought man and so then the record came out and I remember getting it and one of the things that really struck me about it was, you know, and maybe it was just, you know, chance or divine dimension, whatever, it was only 10 songs, which was unheard of for a hip hop record. And so for me, I went to the mindset, I'm like, yo, if this motherfucker got balls enough

to just do 10 songs, like, to me, that in itself was a statement. Like, for you to just say, fuck all these skits and shout out to this dude, 10 songs, fuck it, this is what it is. Like, that to me was like, okay, he got some shit. And so then I listened to it and, yeah I was like I yeah I've never I want to go on the record

I'd never like disputed if it was a classic or not but it was just the way that it was I wasn't expecting it that and that was my whole point like I didn't have an there was no expectation absolutely right I just woke up one day saw the gangstar

issue and thought okay let me see what they reviewed did the Columbia people did they know the like the gravity of what five mics men at the time did they get that? Yeah they got Oh, wow. Okay. Did that change anything in terms of how he was treated at the label or like more marketing dollars to him?

Yeah, it did. It did. It still only, you know, the album was so bootlegged. We came out sold, what, 70,000 first week? Back then. No. Yeah, first week. It was a slow-law.

It was a little bit of 180-something. No. I mean, we didn't sell shit and we did like, we. We said you already had the bootleg copy. be of the Nause record. And that was probably half the problem. Everybody had it. Yeah, but we brought it again. I mean, okay, yeah. You did.

You. You're saying me like money was falling from the sky. No, I'm just saying. Okay, you did. But not a lot of other people didn't. Like, I got a box full of tapes that I dubbed off of people that I still haven't bought the reason. But I feel like 80,000 the first week is like 2016 numbers. You got a lease. They ain't in 2016

numbers. If Nause did 80,000, his first week, He would instantly got dropped from Columbia. I felt like you at least had to do 100,000 or something. You're saying it's that you're 70? Wow. What was it? Oh, Ill Matter.

At least April 1994 has seen an 844% increase in sales in 1994. Wow. The album sold 14,987 copies during this first week. Oh, is my right thing? Is fake okay? I'm all right. I'm all right. Okay.

Oh. As of today, O'Managan sold $1.6 million. 14,000? Thank you. Jesus Christ. Well, that was... I thought it was more than that. That was under your projections.

Shit. That was my... That's me right there. Okay, so first week, what are you saying? Let's put it in our 94 context. At least to my knowledge, and correct me from wrong on this faith. First week numbers, was that really a thing like it was, like it became later on? Like, it wasn't just like your first week.

No, it was a thing. Those were the days when, you know, like Garth Brooks or whoever was doing like a million first week. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, post sound skin. Yeah. Okay, okay. Okay,000, nine-eighteastern. According to the internet, it must be true.

That's from the source. I remember, that's not what I remember, but. That's from the story. Yeah, I mean, it could be wrong. I mean, the great Winston Churchill said, never believe everything you read on the internet. Here we go. What? A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite.

athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make,

to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere. else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends Trust me babe On the Iheart radio app Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcast So were you at hip hop's funeral June of 1995?

Source awards Yes I was there What section were you sitting in Were you on I was right in the middle Oh you were in the middle On the west coast side No

The middle row was all west coast And down south Then I wasn't in that If you're facing the stage, the far left was... If I'm facing the stage, then I'm on the left. All right, so the, the halves, the winning New York side. Nas is sitting three rows ahead of me on the far right side. And I watched his whole body language that...

His whole body language that night. The transition from Nasty Nas to Escobar. I watched, he came in, and it's weird because only maybe two years ago, either him or Stout told of the story of that Tommy Hill Figure shirt that Nas had on. That was the first oddest thing. First of all, it was like, well, Torek's like the fashionista of the roots. So he knew that was the out-of-season hill figure shirt for some reason. Not like he said like, oh, that's not off the rest.

but when you go to Outlet store like that's Outlet last season but the shirt was way too big for Naz it was like he was wearing a imagine like your son wearing Yeah wearing one of my A double X hoodies or whatever yeah

Right it was just a very unusual looking Tommy Hill figure shirt And he came in kind of real You know proud everything It was the top of the show And you know all the drama And the heat was on Diddy

With Shug Knight and the whole, you know, come to death row and all in the video, all that stuff. And, you know, bit by bit, Big kept winning all of the awards. And like, by the time the third, by the time the third nomination was, which I guess was like,

Lyrics of the Year or whatever, you know, his body language is like, he curled up in the most depressed Sitting like Boss Beto right now. Yeah. It was a slouch. I was a slouch I'll never forget watching. And I looked and me and Rie looked at each other like,

yo, he's never going to be the same again. Like, and he wasn't. And he admitted that that night affected him. Like, did that affect you or did at that time, did you just think, whatever, it's the source? No, I thought everything changed for hip-hop that night. Everything. scared the shit out of me

yeah like it felt it it took a turn like towards it got darker it looked towards the dark yeah the dark side and it and you just knew it was going to end badly for a lot of people

I felt that very much so were you around for it was written or did you leave? I left for jive um I had disagreements with gnaz and with stale over the direction of the album.

So were you there, at least for the beginning of it was written? So in your mind, it was like, let's keep our eyes on the prize, and this is the usual. I told Naz, I remember saying this to him, you know, if you keep doing exactly what you're doing, 10 years, you're going to be, you know, legendary. I remember 10 years feeling like a lot of time back then. And, you know, just be true to yourself.

Just be true to yourself. But he was... He's like, I won it now. He's gone. Mm-hmm. What was your kind of? conversation with him after the source of words? That conversation.

So what was he feeling? That he had been cheated somehow, that he had been overlooked, that he made this incredible piece of art and people are giving him the credit that he deserved. Meanwhile, Biggie is... Biggie, he mentioned Biggie, Biggie, Biggie, yeah. So, it was, right.

Biggie, biggie, biggie. So how early into the first or second quarter did you leave it was written? Very early. So I left Columbia in, say, October of 96. Okay. Wait a minute, but it was out by then, correct? I know. I had removed myself from the process.

You still at the label. Did that hurt the label? It hurt my soul, yeah. So. But that's stout. Okay, again. But that's doubt. Here's another.

Here's another. I need love situation. Mm-hmm. Now, whatever your feelings about if I ruled the world. Which I wrote the chorus for, for fucking Lauren Hill, by the way. Wow.

Or rather, I told her what to say. You approve. of that at least. I was up to that point, yes. And then it became, again, an untenable situation because of Stout and myself. Okay.

I couldn't, you know, do what Stout did for Nause. That just wasn't, you know, it's not what I do. Stout once trying to argue me, Stout came to like a voodoo session once. We were thinking of getting Naz on...

Left and right? No. Chicken grease. No, what were we calling that? Send it on. Wait. Oh, in my mind. In my mind.

Yo, son. It will. Yeah. Nah, that makes no sense. Queensburg. Ghetto Children. QB. No, it wasn't ghetto children.

It was a fun guessing game. Player player. Everybody's shout out. I'm trying to think of anything. Wait, stop naming songs so I can figure out the name. All right, so we did a join based on lots of loving the Ohio players Westbound. Yeah. Like, it was something based off of that, and Stout came by.

And we happened to be talking about it was written. And I guess he just automatically assumed that we were all aboard for it because it was winning and it was doing exactly what Nas Hope it would do. as far as sells and winning. And me and D were kind of lukewarm to it. And Stout had mentioned that, yeah, man, remember we was trying to get you for Little Black Girl Lost? And I made the mistake of, ooh, I said, oh, really?

Like, it was kind of like, oh, you doused a bulleter on that one. Really not knowing who or what Steve Stout represented. I just thought he was just a guy that was a picture. opinionated about hip hop and was just hanging around the studio. I didn't know that was like, Naz's guy. And I was like, oh, that's a little black girl lost on that one. You said what? You don't like that?

I was like, oh, God, no. Like, I hated Little Black Girl Lost. The narrative was cool, but again, it was just like. Stephanie Mills. It was an old, yeah, the Stephanie Mills loop was, it was the trackmaster's formula that I didn't like at the time. And just for me, with the Naz, stuff, particularly with that album, too,

it was with and dropping on the same day at stakes as high. It's just like, man, come, like, there was, that was the first time you could really see, like, an A and B kind of choice. You know what I mean? I see you making a Jeff Ball, Boss Bill. It's just pitting it,

Dayline 96 versus Nas in 96. Well, I wasn't pitting them against each other. I was just saying, like, at that point, that was when there became a clear, like a path in terms of sound. So it's like if you got into, if you were, it was written fan,

then that was when you went more to like, you know, track masses and Biggie and the bad boy stuff. It was a part-tide going on. No, it was a part-tide. It was straight up a part-tide. If you went into Stakes-as-high, that was how you got into Dilla.

And that was how you got into like all the kind of left-field underground-y kind of shit. You know what I'm saying? The hip-hop site era of music. You know what I mean? Sandbox automatic. Yeah, oh my God, Sam. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't, I hate to say this, but I wouldn't wish Illmatic or Nas again if he were able to do a redo. Does that sound crazy to you? No, not entirely. I just feel like it's a burden. Is it a burden? Like, do you know if it's a burden on him? I think it is.

Does he realize the pressure, like, Well, I wouldn't wish that on him because it's... I don't know. It was... To me, Illmatic is great as it was, like... Yes, it is, by the way. Oh, and Smart enough Nause is still a thing? To me, I always looked at it as like...

Like, Nause was like the M. Knight Shyamalan of hip-pop. Like, it was... This is good. I like what you're going. I mean, listen, it's like... No, seriously. I mean, like, real right. And I'm a Naz fan.

Like, not dude, Naz is God, literally. But it was like, Il-Matic. was the sixth sense. It was written was unbreakable. It was like, all right. Everything else was everything else. Warren, are you sick of hearing people debate about Illmatic? Like, you created this monster that I would never personally, I wouldn't be.

I'm not. I mean, it's still relevant. That's the thing. It's, you know, here it is 22 years later and we're still talking about it. I just think the idea of Illmatic is our idea and our, I think we're just crying for a period in hip hop that is just it's gone it's gone man

you're basically like I am with the Childish Gambino record I never heard I basically say I'm I'm pining for something that doesn't exist anymore and that's why I don't like it never heard if you're just tuning in our guest is Faith Newman she famously worked as an A&R rep at Columbia and Def Jam back in the early days of hip hop and now works at Reservoir

Faith, where does your hip-hop taste land these days? Well, shit. You signed Joey. Joey badass. Joey badass. And, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you still have irons in the fire.

I try to stay relevant. So when you went to Jive, what period was this? Oh, this was the blingy era. This was 97 to 2000. UGK stories? UGK. I got him. Man.

Wait, yeah, we're listening. Okay. Well, they couldn't get them the turn into the album. So Barry Weiss says you need to go to Houston and come back with the album.

You have one mission and that is to go to Houston get the album and come back. And what album was this? Was this 97? That was, it wasn't Ryan Dirty. It was... No, it was...

Oh, God, what was... Their third album. Well, I... I mean, I didn't come back with the, the P.S. is that I didn't come back with the album, so that would maybe explain why. The important part of the story. Yeah.

I'm shocked that Weiss would even care. Not care, but, I mean. They were signing his label, weren't they? Right. Right. And the other reason he cared was that Jay Prince was trying to steal them away from Jive. Oh, to rap a lot.

Yeah, to rap a lot. And in fact, I was, hotel that I was staying at he sent somebody to sit in the parking lot of the hotel the entire time I was there Jay Prince did yeah wow yeah what why why why I don't know just to let me know that they know that I'm there so Chad Pimsy Pimsy says he wants to take me to dinner with his mom mama Wes you know who she recently died did she yeah yeah yeah to very nice place, which was this kind of, you know, basic steakhouse or whatever, and that was fun. And then they had a show to do that night. I don't know if it was in the Fifth Ward, but it was

somewhere not good. So he's driving to the show, and I'm in the car with him, and he's smoking the entire time that he's driving. And I got this crazy contact high. And he says, hold on, I got to pull over to this place. And we pull over, and it's like one of those adult emporiums. Oh, wow. I'm listening. I still, to this day, I have no idea what he went in there for. I just kind of went in and...

I'll be back in for a couple of minutes. Yeah. I got to make a stop. And then we went to the show, and I got my own bodyguard with a rifle. Wow. And Jay Prince was in the audience, surrounded by all these, like his whole crew. That's just a little A little story

But it didn't shake you No Nothing really ever shook me So you thought you were going there To A&R Beach rhymes in life Right You got stuck with UGK trailing

What was the What was the two short Like we had to bail two shut out It was just a weed thing He was stopped in Times Square Smoking weed In the truck Who hasn't been

What was your Tenure, what period were you there at Jive? 97 to 2000? Ah. Mm. Yes, you were there for Vichron's like a love moment. That's what I mean, that's what I mean, say. Love movement.

Wow. Something real curious. I think the, I think Bumby told a story about Pimpsey's reluctant to. Jay Z. Big Pimpin. Do Big Pimpin. Big Pimpin. And I just remember not liking this story because I felt like just the bottom line was,

clearly Pimsy was struggling or having conflict of success, which most people have conflict of success because it's easy to obtain success. It's harder to keep it going consistently. And it's like clearly in the narrative of Bunby, like Pimsy was absolutely trying his hardest to sabotage this big pimping cameo. He's like, well, I'm only going to do eight bars. Eight bars and he didn't show up this time and didn't show him.

He's not in the video. They had to fly crew down to shoot him in Houston. That was the only way he would do it. Right. Do the video. And it's just like why. Now, I know he was like, you know, hanging on to the credibility and all that stuff, but it's like, like word. I mean, could could UCHK's appeal have really gone to a national level without the aid of Jay-Z and Alcast had, I mean, I know in hindsight, it's like, okay, well, of course that they put the work in and, you know, apply that.

No, no, you need that thing, I think. But did you feel as though, even before Big Pimpedon, before Outcast comes aboard, like that they could have been bigger and, you know, a household name? A household name? I don't think so. Really? Really. I can't see Pimp seed in a household name.

I mean, I just can't, you know. Like, I think they might have found some level of success after the success of, like, no limit in cash money, making Southern hip-hop. you know, more of a, less of a regional thing. I think it would eventually gotten to UGK. Like it eventually did. Have they hung on and just... Right. I don't know if it would have gotten to the level

that it got to. Now, they needed, I think they needed, like, definitely Big Pimpin. I mean, that open... No, they needed it. They would have had to have a couple more of those, I think. But, I mean, it could have... At least with the momentum that Big Pimpin brought them, like, could they have... you know was Barry Lees feeling like okay we're on a roll here we can now cash in and and

if they could get them the turn in the record I mean that was you know I she here she what else did you work on it Jeff um I worked on um the Tupac album oh are you still down are you still down yeah mm-hmm like a hundred songs on there it's when I get free how did how did you guys you guys you guys you guys you guys you guys you guys you guys get access to those songs? It was a return. It was a return favor for something that Interscope did with, Interscope put out a jive release or an jive artist that I, for whatever reason,

I cannot remember right now. So in return, we'll give you Tupac. We'll give you two pop. We'll give you one album of Tupac music. Wow. It's like sports. Straight trading. Man.

That wasn't a bad album, though. I remember. I mean, because a lot. lot of bullshit. Well, the cameo join. When the Seventh Guy's ghetto. Yeah, the remix. It was all soul shocking carlin. So shock and carlin. I wouldn't matter that way. Really? That was so shocking calling. Didn't I do Tracy Spencer? Yeah. Tracy Spencer. Where the hell is Tracy Spencer? Didn't she marry one of them?

She's a doctor or something, I thought. Tracy Spencer, right? Yo, if someone can, I'm just curious. She's on Young and the Restless. She's 10 years old. Did you not get paid for the remix he did or something? Yeah, I got paid for it, but I never met Tracy Spencer. She was my idol when I was a little girl. Hide and seek. I'm sorry. She did imagine.

She killed it. Like she did. Yeah, we agree with you. Oh, good. Oh, okay. So, Faith, I have a question that actually should have asked way, way, way, way long time ago. What exactly does an A&R person do? Oh.

Well, there's different things. I mean, the first thing the A&R person does is bring in the talent, is scout the talent and bring it into the label. and then shepherd it through the recording process. And it doesn't really end there. You know, you don't just kind of finish a record with somebody and you hand it over to marketing or you hand it over to promotion. You kind of, you see it through the whole way

because you know the vision and you know the sound and you know, you know, where it should be going. So that used to be what A&R people did. Yeah, I was going to ask you how has it changed from when you started doing it to now? Yeah, I don't know what it's like, because I've been in publishing for seven years now, doing ANR, which is kind of like the old school way of doing it, which is cool, you know. I don't know how it goes on it, what goes on at the labels right now.

It doesn't seem like you have that much autonomy or, you know, I mean, things are signed based on logistics. and not so much, you know, just pure raw talent. Right. Yeah. Well, which ones have gotten away from you? I mean, if you're talking in terms of like being a scout. Just over the course of my career?

Yes. Which word? Wu! Man. You were trying to get them where? At Columbia. Ah, man. As a unit.

Donnie Einer said, and I quote, they're shit. Oh wow What? Yes Yes Have you had like Revenge talks Have you called him like

Yeah now what do you think Yeah right We could have had that Trust me I felt like it a bunch of times Wow The entire unit The entire unit And you at least had a conversation

With Rizzen considered it Had a conversation The whole thing Damn Did he ever come to you with with any of the solo or the solo projects when he was shopping any of them I was supposed to say Columbia was the only label

that didn't get a taste. Didn't have member of the Wu-Tang Clan Clam? Yeah, well, you know. Not even Capadonna. Their shit. Epic. Or Wu Army. Wu Army was killer army.

They were on, they were like, they were indie, like, well, not indie, but priority or something like that. So during that whole period of 94 to 90, like when they were red hot, he just said, no. Nothing. He just said nothing.

This was, you know, protect your neck days. This was... Ironic being as though, one of Mariah's biggest singles was... Right. Were you a part of that brainchild that brought the fantasy remix with the ODV? No.

At Columbia at the time? Mm-mm. Oh. Well, Faith. In hindsight, Mm-hmm. Like, where are you with music today? Like, does...

I mean, are you... Are you searching for blood in the stone right now, or is it, you know, do you still get this euphoric? I do. There's some artists, two artists that I'm looking at right now that move me. This is include who you spoke of, the singing. Include what? Well, one of the artists you raved about the singer from down south. I don't know the name of the person, but.

The singer from down south. Yeah, someone. an act you told me about of oh shit not a Sam cook voice or whatever but they were part of a group oh watch the duck yes yes

okay Jesse right are they closer to doing stuff yeah yes they are okay are you still involved in the project mm-hmm okay but they want one of the two you were speaking of when you said no there's new ones that I'm looking at you guys

can you say them or are you how do you are you just on YouTube now looking for acts or is it no it comes through different places I mean I may find some something on SoundCloud you know occasionally

but mostly it comes from just people I know managers you know mostly managers and when you say you're looking at these cats are you looking at them in terms of signing them like publishing deals yeah the publishing deals

okay yeah there's this kid named Joyner Lucas You heard of him? No. He's dope. He's on some like vivid M&M type storytelling, clever, you know, wordplay kind of thing. He's dope. But for you, you never want to enter into the sphere of traditional record label.

No, I don't want to go back to that. So what is the future for you? I don't think if you lived through it in the 90s, like I, I did. You, you, you, you can't, I couldn't, I couldn't do it right now because I don't know, I don't know how they do what they do with the resources that they have. Small budgets. Yeah.

Yeah. So what would satisfy you? Like what gives you, you know, what, the pat on the back that, honestly. Honestly, you know, aside from the artist thing, a lot of what I do is catalog deal. and that's the thing, the old school stuff. It's like everything for me has come full circle. You know what I've, knowing who you are and what you love?

Yeah. You know what I wish you do? What? Go to Minneapolis. I wish I could too. I think you should inquire about that, you know? I think they're looking for an archiver. There's somebody to go through all this stuff.

Yeah, like. Yeah. I love doing stuff like that. Make it happen. Yeah. you know, I'm just putting you get a new job. I'm going to put it out there. Put it out in the universe.

I am. I'm putting it. No, I think you'd be perfect. I mean, you, I know that your majestic passion for purple is, runs deep. Yes, it does. And you have enough experience in the business to know how to minister and organize these things. I happen to know they need a lot of help. I'm just saying.

I'm saying that. Okay. Oh, wait. I'm supposed to make... Yeah, you brought it. It's your suggestion. Oh. You know, Faith is magic, too.

She is, but a little extra magic. She's one of my favorite country singers. I thought she was your favorite R&B singer. Right, big one. Faith, yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. I appreciate your presence here. Thank you for not selling out.

That's what you didn't do. You never cashed in. You never sold. rolled out. What's Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHartRadio, visit the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Gowke, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends, trust me, babe, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.