The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Greg Phillinganes Part 1

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

In part 1 of 2, prolific music director, singer-songwriter & session musician talks about collaborating with Michael Jackson, his extracurricular activities on the BAD tour and being Stevie Wonder's wingman on keys.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, all. wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's

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This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, this QLS classic we're about to present is one of my personal favorites. That's right, my personal favorites. You know, I always say if you want to know about your favorite artists, you kind of got to get in with their circle. Well, this Greg Filming Gaines episode is an amazing example. His Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, and Quincy Jones stories are gold. Solid gold.

This is one of my top ten of all-time QLS episodes. It's funny, informative, dramatic, and amazing. Here it is the Greg-Filling Gaines QLS Classic, Part 1. All right, here we go. Hit it. One, two, three. Suprema, Subrema,

Role Call. Suprema, Subrema, Subrema, Ro Call. Suprema, Subrema, Role Call.

Suprema, Subrema, Role Call. Fiselaide's the man, yeah. Hits on the shelf. Yeah.

But on Michaels don't stop to get enough. Yeah. Did that bridge just write itself? Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub,

Suprima. Rocault. Yes. Suprema. Subrema, roll call. My name is Fonte. Yeah. And I'm a winner.

Yeah. With filling gangs. Yeah. Now let it simmer. Oh, Oh, Superima. Subrima,

Role call. Supremma, Submina, Submina, Roca. My name is sugar. Yeah. I got the sugars.

Yeah. I'm having significant pains. Yeah. But I'm making significant gains. Roca. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, suprema, roll call. Sunshine, yeah.

Moonlight. Yeah. Good times. Yeah. Blame it on a bouquet. Roll call. That's good. Suprava.

Suprema. Oh, damn. Awesome to the daughter. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima role call. This is like I am. Yeah. And I can't help it. Yeah.

Greg Philigains? Yeah. The reason you felt it. Ro call. Supremia. What would you say? Rocault. Suprema.

Why are you around, Greg? Yeah. My name is Greg. Yeah. I'm with Amir. Yeah. But I can't believe that he's right here. Roll call.

What? Suprema. Sat. Suprema. Ro call. Suprema. Suprema, sub, sub. Suprema, sub.

Supremea, Ro call. Suprema. Suprema, sub, Sub prima, Sub prima, Role call. Suprema Subma Subma roll call

Yes Wow Yes I am right here Wow What's up y'all Welcome to Another episode of Quest Love Supreme We are live

At United Recording Studios The legendary United Recording Studios I believe that this is where Frank Sinatra And many a This man's world This man's world

Recorded here too The other room in here Yes Yes We're in the legendary, legendary United Recording studio. Ray Charles. Wow. Let me just let the QLS listeners know that our guest today always accuses me of putting my nerdum for useless music trivia information.

Yeah. Ahead of our friendship. Absolutely. So I will start off before I even start the introductions, I will just start with Greg Filen Games. How already did that? I'm just fine. And it's so good to see you at the beginning of 2018. Yes, it's great to see you.

All right, so ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Questlop Supreme. Our guest today is one of the heaviest heavyweights of musicians and producers and arrangers. This is the man that you call when you want the special sauce. Or as Marlon Jackson said, now it's soup. I've never heard that term of my life But he said When we got filling games involved Yeah

Now it's soup Wow he said that Yes he said that He says a lot of wacky things I kind of understood what he meant You know your presence On you know when you read Some of our favorite records

And And productions of the last 40 years Your name is always involved on some of the most life-changing albums that we've experienced. And we want to welcome Greg Filen Games to Kuzov-Sup Supreme. It's very kind of you. You know why I love you, Amir, because you're such an intense nerd about this and curator of this,

but you're keeping the history alive, but you're doing it... In the creepiest way possible. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, seriously. All jokes aside, you're doing it. in the absolute best way possible. You're making it fun. You're using your platform from your celebrity to do this. And I, for one, really appreciate it.

Because I don't get out very often these days because I'm older now and I have twin boys who are almost three. There'll be three. That's a whole. And my 12-year-old daughter. But, you know, I'm older now. And, you know, it's a new day. It's a new world out there, and, you know, I'm just trying to stay with it. So I appreciate it.

But the thing is, is that you've made some of the best graffiti that will never, ever be replaced no matter what. And even if people don't know, like, it's, it's there. Like, it's no erasing the history. Well, it's, I've been very, very blessed in that way. And it's true. I've always said, you know, my whole career, those that know, no, and those that don't, don't. And it's fine with me. And actually, I kind of prefer it that way because I love, this happens to me all the time.

You know, I'll be talking to someone who has no clue of who I am, right? And they go, so you play, you're a musician? I go, yeah. What do you play? Keyboards? Oh, you in a band? I said, well, I've been in a couple bands. You know?

Stuncton five, four. And I mean, I just, I love to. And I have this, I have this thing playing in my head. Like, I was at this incredible music. the other day called the Nethercut Museum. It's over in Silmar. And the curator of all these incredible musical instruments, actually, Mir, you should see it because it's unbelievable.

And he, one of the things on display was an actual gramophone. And I mentioned to the guy, I said, well, you know, you can explain to the tourists there that gramophone is, you know, where the term Grammy came from, you know, the Grammy Awards, you know. He's, yeah, you're absolutely right. He says, you ever been in the Grammys? It's really fun. And so I have this thing.

When I get asked a question like that, this vision runs through my mind of like, you know, different times that I've MD the Grammys. Like, you know, like for the Lionel Richie segment or the Aretha segment. And so these things go through my head before I answer the question going, yes. I've been there a few times. But I never explained that, but I just go, yeah, I've been a few times.

And it's hysterical. You acknowledge it? Because I just try to throw off the sentence. Like, yeah. I hear that a lot, but now. Well, sometimes I do that too. But it's always fun engaging in those conversations and still leaving the people not having a clue of who I am. I love that.

No, but you never once been like, yo, you hear that intro on We Are the World? Yeah. Yeah, no, no. No. Nothing. Oh, okay. No. So.

Some things are better left. Actually, you're my favorite type of person to interview because often... Oh, you just said that coincidence the other night. No, but I'm going to say what's weird is that often when people are in the eye of the storm or inside the tornado, they really can't give you a good perspective. And I'm saying that he has great stories. But for me, talking to engineers is way better than talking to like the guy. Yeah. Like I'd rather talk to Susan Rogers about Prince's work habits than Prince himself.

You know what I mean? That's what I mean? That's what the thing. Okay. Right. because you'll get that outside perspective. Right. And I feel as though you're probably the best eyewitness

to some crazy historic shit. I mean, just between songs in the Key of Life and Thriller and, I mean, the list goes up. You can stop right there. Like, that's the average person's whole shit. Like, God. Yeah. Well, I'll give you that.

So where are you originally from? Detroit. You're from the D. I'm from the D. East side or what side? Well, it started in Highland, like you know. Listen, this is I. No, dude.

He's an nerd. All right. Some of my, you know, some of my key records were created in Detroit as well. I did not know. I'm a lover of Detroit. Okay. But I know that people from the West Side sometimes front and tell me East Side for some credibility. Right.

So I wanted to know where you East Side or West Side. Well, first of all, I don't need credit. Okay. See, I already know your west side because you didn't even say, what up, though, too. No, I know, what up, though? No, actually, I started in Highland Park, if you know about that,

which virtually doesn't exist anymore. And then I moved to the northwest side. Okay. By eight mile. Okay. All right. I see. So your, your credentials are still there.

You're in there. Side note, when you read the, the purple ring liner notes Prince actually gives a what up though Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah Really? He gives a what up though to Billy Sparks From Detroit okay yeah from Detroit

So are you As far as your your era or your period of growing up We've also interviewed Ray Parker Jr. on the show Oh Lord how did that go? It was amazing How did you manage to leave? Because we didn't want to.

No one loves talking about themselves more than that. True. We'll promise you that, man. Damn, shots fired already. No, man, I mean, I love Ray, but he knows. He knows. It's like, you know, you sit him down and you're, oh, you want to hear more about me?

Great. No, really. Maybe that same week. You want to hear more? He makes it entertaining. He does, yeah. But he basically said that from Stevie's music of my mind period

up until fulfilling this first finale. He basically won it. you know, all Detroit cats in his crew as his band. And I didn't know if that was just a preference of the something in the water in Detroit or he just wanted to make sure that all the homeboys on the block got gigs or that sort of thing. But you're significantly younger, though. So how do you come to his attention? I don't know.

Oh, really? You don't know the story? No. No. Okay. Well, settle back and I'll tell you the whole thing. Yes, that's what we want, fireside chats with Uncle Greg. With Uncle Greg, yeah.

Well, hello, kids. Let me tell you. So this is what happened. It's a year after I graduated. I'm in Detroit. I graduated high school, which was Cast Tech in 1974. And I was very excited and very much looking forward to going to college. Because, you know, that's just what you did.

And I, you know, it was like straight out of the Charlie Brown comics. You know, I got my little Joe Cool briefcase. And I was like, I'm going to college. I went to Wayne State and I gradually just started sucking at everything, even the, even the subjects I liked. Like, I really liked psychology. Sucking. Wait, you weren't there for music? It was a liberal arts.

I took a liberal arts because I was lazy and I didn't want to, you know, really. anything. So I took a liberal arts course and one of the the courses was psychology and I was really into it but I sucked. It just could not get it together, you know. And so I remember telling my mom that, you know, college just wasn't working out and she says, well, you know, just give it another chance and see what happens. And I was gaining a lot of notoriety in Detroit from playing in a couple of different bands fairly regularly and playing around town. And I absolutely idolized Steve. Stevie.

You know, the whole, I had posters of him in my bedroom wall. And I really internalized, I really absorbed his music. I was, to his music, what you are to music in general. I mean, I just nerded out. But not in a cerebral way like that. you, more of an organic, spiritual, musical way. You know, and I mean, I really connected with his approach musically and vocally, even though I was really shy

about singing, I would sing with him in the shower, whatever, you know. And, you know, I was just mesmerized by his covers of other things, his arrangement. I mean, how do you go from Drive me in my way to, you know, we can work it out. Right.

We can work it out. Ah, hey, hey, hey, I mean, who does that? Right. And not to, not to mention the intro.

Who does that? On a clavinet. So I was mesmerized, right? I remember telling friends of mine in high school that I would eventually play with Stevie Wonder. I don't know why I did that. I don't know where that came from.

Well, actually, I do. It came from the Lord because he put that dream in me and I remember just spewing it out, like telling people I was going to play with him. So here's what happened. A dear, dear, dear friend of mine, who's a drummer, was asked to audition for Steve in New York

by a former band member, by a former Wonderloved band member he got to my friend and asked and asked him if he'd be interested in auditioning for Stevie in New York

so the obvious answer was yes the night before he left the night before my friend left I went to see him because I was just so thrilled for him and he's packing and we're talking

and we're all excited and everything but he insisted that I play some things on a cassette and he would give that cassette to Steve this is the kind of friend he was so he insisted I'd do this so I played some things but I remember

one of the things I played was you are the sunshine of my life but I played it the same way he did on the record to kind of let him know I understand how he you're a student right how he thinks and I played some other things including Sun Goddess

I remember playing that. And I played like maybe one or two other things. And then he, my friend took the cassette and flew to New York the next day. And it seemed like time stopped. I don't know how long he was there. But I remember one day, maybe two, three days later, my friend called me early in the morning and said, Stevie Wonder wants to see you in New York today.

Wow. Exactly. So I'm running around the house screaming like a banshee. And my mom, my mom is like, you know, she's on her way to work. You know, she was working at a hospital as a director of nurses. And she said, boy, what's the matter with you? West Indian, you don't know. What do you're doing?

So I said, Bob, Steve wants to see me a lot. So she's like, well, just bring clean underwear. Because no matter what, no matter how bad of an accident you get, if you die, the first thing your mother's going to ask. Was his under? Were there any stains? Within he stands? That's all they want to know. So now, but I'm asked to go to New York that day, but I'm also asked to stop by Stevie's house to pick up one of his brothers.

So now I'm sitting inside Stevie Wonder's. And I knew where he lived. There were many of us that knew where he lived. But now I'm sitting inside the house going, okay, well, I'm just here sitting inside Steve Wonder's house. All right. I'm just waiting for his brother. one of his brothers have come down and we're going to go to the airport. All right, let me just absorb this right now.

So Timothy comes down, we go to the airport. Now, there are a few backstories. Now, the first backstory is, remember I was telling you how I was sucking in college? And mom said to give it one more try. And I remember saying to myself, all right, look, I'm going to try this one more time. And I'm going to, if nothing, Earth shattering happens, I'll register for the spring quarter on the last day to register. Okay.

The day I was leaving for the airport to meet Stevie in New York was the final day to register for the state. Wow. Look at God. And I remember going to Metro Airport and it started snowing, you know, and it's just like, and it was April 1st. on top of all that so flat of New York get settled at the hotel

go to the studio I'm sitting on pins and needles because I realize I'm about to meet my idol that I'd only seen twice in concert before and I'm getting ready to meet this guy like face to face and I'm really trying to be cool

the engineer is just like you know we're making small talk but I'm just your hand sweating everything is just just, I'm really just... Is this at the record plate? This was at the Hit Factory. Oh, okay.

The original one. Okay. With one elevator and the... 54th Street, yeah. Right, 54th Street, yeah. Right, 54. The Mariah Carey Boys and Men elevator. There you go.

And also known as the Greg Philling Games elevator because I have a story about that, that particular elevator later. Word? Yeah, I do. It'll crack you up. But anyway, so I'm waiting on Pennsylvania. Finally, elevator door opens and you know,

because you're in the studio and there's a monitor that's, there's a camera that's pointing at the elevator to see who goes in and out. Elevator door finally opens in. Out he comes. He, you know, this cool thing. And his sister Renee is towing him and he's just, well, he comes in. And I go, oh, my God. There is.

So, we walk. Because, you know, that's what you do. Yes, it is. That is what you do. You don't say, but this is what's going on in the head. So, um, You know, and he's coming in. And so they say, Steve, Greg's here.

And so he, how you doing? And that handshake, that single handshake was the thing that changed my life. We, from that point on, we made small talk and, you know, he actually showed me an original unreleased song of his. And he wanted to see if I could play it. What was it going? I see that. Of course.

Well, there's an answer for that, Amir. And it was called Spring High. Oh, he ended up cutting it on Ramsey Lewis. You're good. I told you we were in urge. You're good. You're good. You're good, you.

You over there. You're good. Wow. Okay. I've seen good. You're one of them. So, yes. But, you know, at some point, you know, early on, he said it was going to give it to me.

me. But, you know, I'm not bitter. I'm not bitter because I know and love Ramsey and it was fantastic. So that's the first song I learned. Wow. How about that? That was the first song I learned. Oh. Huh? Right. Come on, you know what Steve. I didn't read my credits, but I know this song very well. We have the A track. So there were no credits. Oh, okay, okay. But when you think about it, How about that chorus? It goes,

whet, da, da, do do do do do. This is so great. Right? So, you know,

too bad I don't have a keyboard. Anyway. Don't say that. We have a studio. But, but yeah. So that was the first one I learned. Now,

that's the night of April Fool's. Next day is more of the formal audition. Wait, one quick question. Yes. This is 1975? This is 1975. So songs in Key Life did not come out yet? No.

He was still working on it. 75, okay. Okay, 75. Next day is more of the formal audition. It's between me and an older-looking white guy, which I came to find out later on, much later on, years, years later, that guy was sent to audition by Chick Korea. Wow. Because Chick heard about Steve auditioning, and he sent this guy, and wait a minute, wait a minute, his name, Mike Garson.

Okay. And the reason why I know this is because it was just like maybe a few years ago, this guy approached me at the NAM show, and Anaheim and said, I know you, but you may not know me. I go, why? It's because I'm the one that auditioned against you for Wonderlove. I go, you've got to be kidding me. Mike Garcin, and he told me the whole story from his side, he told me that Chickorya sent him, and I'm like, you've got to be kidding.

So I put his name, you know, my contact list, and there's a picture of us, you know, standing side by side, but there's another picture of me going like, you're the one, you're the one. Shoking his neck, right? So it's between, Between me and Mike, you know, we're at, we're at Bill's rehearsal.

I remember Bill's? You don't know about that. No. Okay, it was called Bill's. I was fourth, but. Okay, fine, right. Okay. So, there's a place called Bill's,

and I met everybody in Wonderlove, including. Ollie. Raymond? Raymond and, and, oh, my, Nisi. Okay. Nisi.

And Nisi was very, very precocious. She would, you know, run up to me from time to time. It pinched me on the bus. But I'm going through the process, and from time to time, different band members would come up to me on the side and go, it's okay, you guys. And I'm still a little nervous, but I don't even remember what I did.

What song was it? I have no idea. We were playing all day. I have no idea. I don't remember anything about it. I just remember going through the process and playing with everybody and kind of feeling my way through, and this other guy, Mike, you know, and that was that.

So after that whole day, back in the car with Steve, it's evening time now we're on our way back to the hit factory I'm in the back Steve's in the front and he turns around at one point and goes so how does it feel to be a member of Wonderlove so in my head

I'm thinking is he serious I don't know because now all these things are coming back to me about like how I heard he was a practical Joker and he never you know all these things right so I wasn't sure so I said Are you serious?

He goes, of course, I'm serious. What? Oh, really? So now I'm trying to think, how can I prove this? How can I prove this? So I said, well, would you mind telling my mom? Because I'm not going to lie to mom. That's the original Instagram.

Okay? The original Instagram is mom. You ain't going to lie to mom. So he says, sure, so we get to the studio. I dial the house and give him the phone. The first voice my mom hears is Stevie Wonders telling her that he wants to have her son in his band and he'll take care of him and he thinks he's very talented and this

and this and this and this and this and this and this and they talk for a couple minutes and then he has the phone back to me and for the next few minutes this is what you hear so damn you made it yeah like at that moment did you feel like that that your mother's response that's the first time you ever probably got that well well we were doing that to each other I was just screaming but the thing is that you know she thought because she told told me later on she thought that it was just going to be a weekend fling and I was going to meet him and have a little thing and then come back home. Come back and go to school.

Well, it was a weekend fling. I did meet him and I did go back home to get the rest of my shit. She was happy that's a music thing can make you some money. So you were 19. Oh, and that's the punchline. It was a month before my 19th birthday, but it was a month before Steve. Steve's 25th.

Ah, okay. Let's say that again, a month before Stevie's 25th birthday, which means he was working on songs in the key of life at 24. That's crazy. Yes, it is. That is crazy. So when he, after he turned 25 was when that was released. 25.

Wow. I was still trying to learn how to time my shoelaces in 24. This guy, songs in the key of life. Wow So let that marinate Yeah You put it in perspective Yeah

Because I Wait There's something I want to ask About your Stevie experience Oh and I have two other backstories No no Okay But ask go

I ask me for you Well see now I'm asking for Another backstory on TV Okay I'd rather you go Okay All right So here's the thing

Thing is My dear friend The drummer Did not get the gig I was wondering Okay Who was he? well unfortunately you have to ask in that you know in that grammar you have to say was because

Ricky Ricky Lawson Ricky oh no Ricky Lawson Ricky you have not experienced friendship until Ricky Lawson was a friend of yours wow oh man Ricky Lawson was the very definition of friend in every aspect I mean you know you hear there's a line that goes he'll give you the shirt off your he literally would give you the shirt off his back there's story after story after thousands of stories about how he impacted

people's lives just quietly and he was the sweetest guy ever ever and there will never be another Ricky Lawson Dennis used to talk about him You told this story on Soul Train you're the first cat I knew that didn't even talk about your album it was a tribute to Ricky Lawson. I was like this is the weirdest thing I'm

like usually have you got two minutes to sell your product of Don. Yes, a new album and this is my single. And Don asked you like, well tell us about your beginning. He just said, it's all because of this man right here. And it was like, it was almost a tearful moment. I was like, wow. Like, damn, I got to treat the roots better because

But wait, can you tell the drummer's story then? Because Ricky didn't get the gig, but I know Dennis used to talk about Ricky all the time. It's weird. But, you know, and it's It turned out that... Dennis Davis. Dennis Davis.

But it turned out that Steve was just trying to, I don't know, intimidate or strike fear into the... But actually, the drummer that was there was Raymond Pounds. Raymond Pounds, yeah. So that's what I meant. But Ricky didn't get it with Steve, but Roy Ayers was hanging around a lot at the time. And Roy said, if you don't get it with him, you got it with me. So he ended up with Roy.

And technically... Which is weird. Because Dennis was with Roy and Stevie. Yeah. And Dennis and Ricky were like really close. Yes, yes. So it was a lot of incestual action going on there. But here's the thing.

So technically, even though I just joined Steve's band and I was working on songs in Key of Life, technically the first album that was released that I'm on is everybody loves the sunshine. What? Yes. Yes. That's you? Yeah, it's me. Not on everything.

I think on two songs. But there's one song that I have a solo on at the end. I was just blazing and I was very young and crazy and hungry. And I was just like, whaer, you know. So, yeah, that was the first thing that was released that I'm on. What equipment were you using at the time? Whatever the hell I wanted to. What was out back there?

I was working with Stevie Wonder, dude. He had two of everything. Well, I'm just saying that now, you know, we get a corg. we get a, you know. No, because, no, no, no. First of all, I had several pristine roads. That's what I want to know. Okay, I mean, like, roads like you cannot believe.

Like, roads like the intro to Superwoman. I mean, I'm like Rhodes, right? Right. And, oh, we had the Yamaha stuff, the CS80, the ARP 2,600, the mini moves. And, of course, the Dream Machine. Tonto? No, no, no, no, no. You know about the dream machine.

This is Yenclavia? No, no, no, no. It's way before St. Clavia. This is what St. Clavia was trying to be like. Is this one one black man that little automated? No. No, no, no. This is a custom keyboard from Yamaha.

Three-tier keyboard. All white and chrome, and the speakers are about as tall as I am. And for those of you don't know, that's like five, five. five, eight. Six feet. Just say six. No, yeah, right. No, five, seven, five, eight on a good day.

But they're tall, beautiful speakers. And I have beautiful, fond memories of sitting next to Stevie, just the two of us, wagging our heads together, playing the parts to Saturn, playing the string parts to joy inside my dears, just the two of us. Wow. Okay, that's just a couple of things. And then, and there are, I believe, four of these in the world, of course, Steve owns two of them.

And they're not cheap. And they're not even in production anymore. It stopped about, you know, years ago. But, yeah, incredible instrument. And so, yeah, I mean, I had, you know, like clavinets and all that, all that, all this kind of stuff. So let me ask if, use. Usually in a musician's life, they're just a sponge when, you know,

if they discover music early from like 10, 11, 12, you know, they're a sponge. They're open to anything. Usually your first taste of maturity comes when you're like 15, 16 years old when you start, like, putting away childish things and, you know, something affects you. Can you tell me, I've heard,

I like to hear the accounts of people when they first discovered music of my mind. Was that? Was that, did that album have an effect on you as far as like a huge? Whoa, what is this? Huge. See, because I love it so much, but of course I was born in 71. So me discovered it in 1979 is way different than being there in real time.

Listen, what was that moment like to hear those patches and those like music like that? Well, first of all, it just made me realize that he was a visionary when it, came to creating sounds that that you know that

accurately described his feelings you know and the amazing way he used the new technology of that time to essentially orchestrate

because you know when you hear things like, you know, again, Superwoman and his use of those high synths and everything and how he combined, you know, the newer instruments with traditional instruments like piano, drums, and so forth. So, and of course, the songwriting,

every aspect of it, the songwriting, the vocal approach, the level of the level, a musicianship because, you know, let's remember he played everything. And so that had a huge effect. But, you know, it was a gradual progression because I didn't just get into him in songs

in the Key of Life cousin. It was like, you know, from, everybody say yeah. It was from that. But then, you know, just going along the ride, the journey with him, the progression, you know, from fingertips to where I'm coming from. Yeah, even before, no, no, before that, like, a sign to deliver, please, you know.

The cover of, we can work it out. Should be do dot-day, you know. I'd be a fool right now. Yeah, I met you match, you know, things like that. And then from that, slowly crossing over into the more mature era, you know, starting with where I'm coming from, which was, of course, a precursor to music in my mind. And where I'm coming from kind of doesn't get enough credit because where I'm coming from had a couple of gems like, I'd never dream you leave this song. Let's not forget that.

Okay, exactly. Sugar. And take a course in happiness, you know. Isn't that a song on? No, sugar is a sign seal delivery album before. Oh, do yourself a favor. Do you do do do do do educate your mind, you know. So get yourself.

You know, so all that kind of stuff. And so going along that journey and then ending up at the beginning of the five great album era, starting with songs, with music of my mind, because the reason why I call it that is because there were five albums that were completely great where every song was great. There are other albums before and after that had great songs. but not complete. Music in my mind was a complete great album. Intervisions was a complete great album.

Talking Book was a complete great album. Fulfilling this first finale was a complete great album, and we won't even discuss songs in Key of Life. So that's five right there. That five album run, by the way, that ended at 25. Wow. It's reminding you that.

Because he was 25 when songs in the key of life was released. Oh, that's right. So before that, damn. Exactly. That's a perspective. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the same, scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on On TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters

when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slico Life 12 and TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. But can I just give you one last backstory about Give all the backstory.

We live for that shit. Okay. So, I was given another perspective years later by one of Steve's former managers who explained from his end how the process went down for my audition. So, Ricky goes to the studio

and he auditions and he's told he doesn't get the gig. he kind of leaves with his tail between his legs, you know, and he's like obviously disheartened, and he leaves the studio. He's outside the studio. He feels in his pocket and he remembers that my cassette's in this, that he still has my cassette, he goes back to the studio and says to one of the managers at the time,

listen, you know, I got this friend, his name is Greg, and, you know, I promised him that I'd give this tape to, he's a keyboard player and I promised I'd give this cassette to Steve so he could check him out. Would you mind just making sure he gets it? And the guy says, sure. He puts it on a table with a pile of other cassettes. Steve was not there at the time.

He stepped away. Some time later, he comes back. He sits down to the table with the cassettes. He's fishing around and all of a sudden he... He just grabs one at random. Gives one at random. Sticks it in. Press his play.

He's listening. And then he stops wagging his head because he's got like a kind of disconcerted look on his face and he sits still and he goes he takes the cassette out and goes what's this say? So the guy says Greg and of course he butchered my last name

and so Steve reportedly said get him wow so because apparently well no I'll I'll get to that so he they they call Ricky back and see a Ricky and he goes oh then he

changed his mind Oh, no. Well, not exactly, but you know your friend? Can you call him? Oh. Damn, Ricky. So, I know, right? So that's what, but then the reason why Steve reacted the way he did, apparently

legend has it is because he thought it was him. Wow. Oh. He thought it was him playing, and he couldn't quite figure out. Oh. I guess I left a bit of an impression, which is kind of what I wanted to do. So that's...

Damn. Wow. Yeah. That is crazy. It's bananas. And I actually remember telling Steve that, like, maybe like a couple years ago. And he said, all right, well, that sounds...

Yeah, we'll go with that. He didn't... We'll go with that. That's right. So you were just auditioning to be in the band, but you wound up. on songs in the Key of Life. Four times.

So, okay, being in the eye of the storm, what, because I remember, like, now it doesn't seem like a year and a half was all that long to wait from 74 till 76. Oh, but it was. Yeah. It was if you're Barry Gordy. Exactly. Right, right.

So, one, what was 10. taking so long and why? Well, of course, I know that fine wine takes its time, but I'm just fine wine and then there's Stevie Wonder. So by the time you're there, do you know that it's going to be a double album or 2.5 albums? No. I just know it's a lot of music. Did he know that?

Well, I don't know. I don't know. It was just because for every one song that ended up on the record, there's about three or four that didn't. So you do the math on that. So how many songs do you think around just during that period? It's endless. Because you know what? I have a few cassettes of unreleased stuff.

Yeah. One, two, I'm pretty sure two. Pretty sure I have two. And that's not even, you know, that's barely the tip of the iceberg. And that's from back then. Okay. You know, so it's added up over the decades. So, yeah, he had a lot of stuff.

And he had things like, oh, oh, you got to hear this story. You got to hear this. You got to hear this. Okay. Because it sort of ties in with your question. All kinds of unreleased stuff. And the night before my first show, show with him, which was in D.C. for a little thing called Human Kindness Day, which was on the grounds of the Washington Monument.

250,000 people. That's my first show. Whoa. There's an audition for you. So it's the night before. And, you know, usually or traditionally Steve would have a massive black bag full of tapes of guess what. So I some, somewhere found the, you know, intestinal fortitude to ask him if I could borrow the bag. And do you know he said yes? What about that? I have, I'm 19 years old. I have Stevie, barely 19, I have Stevie Wonder's bag of unreleased music in my room with a pair of headphones. What are you going to do? Stay in there for like a week.

Okay, so I'm just rifling through stuff. I can't believe he said yes to this day. And I'm playing stuff. And Amir, for the first time, I'm hearing the original version of Send One Your Love. And I cannot tell you, I cannot describe to you what it was like, Amir. All I can say was that it was an instrumental and all the synthesizers were singing. and we're singing Amir Now you know how it goes

You know Do do do do Right But in addition to the melody They had these background Since going Do do do Wap

Do do do Doop In harmony I'm telling you Amir It was otherworldly I never heard anything like It in my life And I'm sitting there like

It was like LSD and the best weed you ever think you can imagine. And I don't do drugs, but I'm talking about it. It was like all of those combined. It was just like, and that's one thing I heard. And I heard all kinds of stuff that I can't even describe the feeling. And I gave it all back to them the next day.

And I was a changed man. So none of this stuff has ever come out, the outtakes from songs in the Key of Life or the demos and all that. another song called Living for Your Love. And I think he has since released that, but the original version of that was the best. And that was done on the Dream Machine, too, and all these weird sounds. And bo-go-bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-what-do-do-do-what. Do-do-do-do---------------------------------.

I mean, just crazy stuff, you know. So the original sin-in-in-law, that was, I mean, the version you heard was, what, 70? 75, 76? Was it that early? 75. Sounds about right. Yeah. Sounds about right.

Yeah. And usually when we get stuff, especially that good. Yeah. Years later. Yeah, it's been watered down. Yeah. Yeah. God.

So the version to be for that to just Oh my God. To leave it off the record like, yeah, not yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one.

And so the one you know about? Yeah. Doesn't hold it. Doesn't even compare. Wow. Doesn't even hold. You think you like that? Yeah.

Wow So I got to know Why did he part ways with The Tonto guys With Bob and Malcolm Yeah Bob and Malcolm I don't think it was anything

I think it was just They were there in a program Well I mean they introduced him To the whole world of sense With Tato And I think it was just Uh Time to

change. Yeah, I don't think it was anything, you know, negative. I don't really know much about the split, but I don't think it was anything, you know, I don't think it was because of any issues. Well, no, no, I don't mean like, was it amicable, but I was just trying to figure out if, you know, for what they were doing with him between 71 and 74, you know, some of the sizes were the size of rooms. Suddenly, Yamaha is making these. Because what I want to know is the ability to play chords with these patches. Yeah. And what year was it that you were able to play more than one note at the same time?

Well, that kicked, oh, I can't remember the exact year. But it was kind of going on when I was there because of the Dream Machine and because of the CS80, you had polyphony with those instruments. But I think as far as the split from Malcolm and Bob, he just, he just, it just seems to me thinking about it that he wanted a more hands-on approach. And he was able to do, he felt he could do more on his own with the technology of that time. Because, you know, you got the ARP 2,600 now. And, you know, but that was, that was even that, that was around even during, before songs in Key Black, because that was on, you know, It was the bass sound for Bougi on.

So, I mean, you know, that was around, but I just think he wanted to take more of a hands-on approach and just create the sounds on his own. So what songs are you on as far as the actual tracking? Right. So Saturn. Okay. Contusion.

And the only reason why I'm on contusion is because that crazy line that Mike Simbello came up with, he couldn't play it. And I said, well, I can. Ha, ha, ha, ha. So he said, okay, go. So in the riddle, that's me. Doubling Michael.

Oh, the inside line? Yeah, that's me, that's me doubling Michael on a, on a synth. Yeah. And that's the only reason why I'm on that. And then probably my, my favorite, one of my favorites for sure. Well, yes, isn't she loved? play them on that. And one of my favorites for sure, joy inside my tears. It's string parts of that. And I play the roads on,

Isn't She Lovely? So were those songs all tracked together with a group of people? No, no, Isn't She Lovely? It was an overdub. I definitely remember that. But I also remember meeting the subject of that song in a little crib at his Brownstone in New York. And I remember going up stairs and looking down in the crib and going, oh, she's cute. But yes, it was a rose overdue on isn't she lovely. It was kind of like, well, it was an overdub on contusion as well.

Steve and I did the string parts and the orchestral parts together on Joy Inside My Tears and Saturn. So when the album comes out in 76... Yeah. Oh, by the way, he actually had t-shirts made up. We're not done yet? We're almost finished. Yeah.

We're almost finished, yeah. So, Steve, yeah. You guys were going to do that for Voodoo, weren't you? They did, yeah. Because De Ansel was taking five years with Voodoo. Oh, yeah. You did the same thing. Yeah, I made T-shirts that, you know.

And you can still wear them today. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! I do love that guy though

When in 76 In September of 76 When this comes out Yeah What was I just recently found Have you guys ever seen that EPK That's online When the press is hearing

Songs in the Key of Life For the first time Have any of you guys seen this? No So when you Like Google songs in the Key of Life EPK And it's like a listening session

Of Really? Yeah like 50 key rock critics, even like Robert Christa Gow was there when he was in like his younger days, but they're all listening together and to watch them collectively jaw drop, like after they hear Sir Duke for the first time. And, you know, it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. But yeah, it's on YouTube.

But to watch people, well, that, you know, like I was in first grade by the time it came out. and what was it? September's... No, my homework... No, my homework... I've got socks older than you. It's in first grade. Yeah, like my homework was, you know,

have mom and dad buy this album, and, you know, we all had our copies in in school the next day, and we're reading the liner notes and all this stuff. No, the liner notes alone, like, changed my life. But what was it just in real time and to tour behind this album? What was it like to...

to well first of all it wasn't he didn't tour off of this um wait a minute you sure I'm kind of sure because he didn't wait when he won this Grammy he was like

you guys remember the episode of the Grammy Awards where he was in Africa yeah but that wasn't a tour we we went to Lagos Nigeria because he wanted to perform down there and it and it was it turned out to be you know in time

uh or during the amazing we did a remote segment and that's the that's where you you you have Andy Williams asking the immortal question stevie can you see us thank you yeah that was the weirdest thing to watch as a seven year old no i was he was like on this telephone but okay that explains why he was dressed and all that african garb yeah was phala at those shows i i i think i think so i don't remember i don't remember but i think so uh i have kind of i only have one memory of legos But anyway, what it is? Well, that we rolled up and we stayed in this very opulent hotel.

And it was like, you know, gold fixtures in the bathrooms and everything. And I remember my room was high up. And I remember looking down on the beach and seeing people squatting on the beach and being in huts. I remember that. But it was wild, man. And I also remember the auditorium we actually performed that. You know, the crowd was great. They were raucous, you know.

And I'm like, can we're doing a remote broadcast to the Grammys? This is crazy. But that's it. So we didn't tour off of that album. He didn't really do formal tours. Just did one-offs. Like playing Jamaica and having Bob Marley open for us. What?

That didn't suck. I'm sure it didn't. You know, and I remember when we were rehearsing and he told us that we were going to Jamaica, like, I immediately went out and got Marley's album, which was

what was that? Hallmark album, what was the name of that album? Exodus? No, crap. Catch a fire? No, it had I don't remember the name of the album, but it had, you know,

lively up yourself and it had I'm looking Yeah look It's a class You know you see it No Catch a fire burning

Natty Dred Must be Nadi Dred Okay Yeah Root Rugger Okay That's Rasa Man Vibration

That one Okay Roastewin reggae That was 76 Yeah Okay So I remember Yeah okay so I remember

Getting that And just Playing it over and over again And then like next thing You know Marley's opening up for us Damn It's crazy.

Why no touring, though? Because he's Stevie Wonder. It's just different. He's just, you know, it's just all over the place. No, he was just all over the place. You offer those albums, like those songs and that's so weird. I thought he didn't tour behind Secret Life of Plains, but I definitely thought he toured behind. He did.

No. No, no, no, no, no. We, like I said, my five days with Secret Life. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, my, my first gig was the human kind of. China's Day in D.C. And I don't remember what happened consecutively after that,

but I know Jamaica, you know, Lagos, and things like that. But not a lot of action. Not a lot of action, not anything formal or consistent that you would classify as a tour. But did he want you exclusively his? Because I'm trying to figure out exactly when you ease to the Jackson's? Well, we were all on retainer.

And that was the other cool thing about being in the band. And it's like, I just joined, I just turned 19, and I'm making $500 a week. And I'm like, okay, this is it. This is it right here. This is it. On retainer, like, every week.

And was that, okay, I'm so glad you said that. What? For a working musician. Yeah. Was that a good living in 1975, 76? At that time, yeah. Okay. Oh, it was great for me.

Okay. Yeah. Today, that's not even an hour for me. Well, yeah, I know that, but, you know, like, your 500 back then today would probably be like, you know, $4,500, $4,500 a week or something. Yeah, something like that. But, or at least 10 times as much as that.

But, no, it was great. And so I was with him from 75 till the beginning of 70, January 79. The last chat shot with him was in Atlanta. I remember that. And then it was tough to say goodbye. But I realized that I needed to or else I was going to remain stagnant.

Yeah, it's going to be comfortable. Yeah. So you had a goal to be a producer or was it just like? No, I had a goal to expand. to the extent that I could because this was based on promises, unkept promises of, you know, producing an album on Wonderlove.

Everyone has that story. Yeah, he kept promising us he was going to, you know, do an album. And it got to the point where we believed him less and less. And then one day he said, all right, look, I'm doing this. And this is where we're going to do. We're going to go, we're going to leave here.

We're going out of here. And we're going to Louisiana. I don't know how he found this place. But there is a, I don't even know if it still exists now, but there was back then a studio called Studio in the country. Never more was there an appropriate name for a facility. Because this place was in Bogalusa, Louisiana. Because they're not? Thank you.

Look that up. Google it. I don't even know if Bogalus exists anymore, but it did then. And it was deep, deep, deep in the country. Is it in a house? No, it was a studio. And it was a cool studio, too.

It was a proper studio. But how deep in the country in the late 70s? Oh, it was deep. It was in the sticks, but it was great. The people were wonderful. It's still open, by the way. It is? Yeah.

Okay, how about that? Studio in the country in Bogalus, Louisiana. We went down there. and, you know, we hung out. And I have to tell you about my most memorable experience of being there because you haven't lived until you've been in a car with Stevie Wonder. Yeah, I was waiting for the car driving a story. So hit it. You haven't lived until you've been driven.

Driven by Stevie Wonder. But no accident. No, no, no. So here's what happened. So we're feeling frisky. We're in the hotel. And, you know, we're just like a. you know, messing around and all of a sudden, I don't remember who else I was with, but it was a small group of us.

And somebody said, hey, Steve, want to drive? Sure. So we go down, go to somebody's car in the parking lot, it was open. You know, there were very few cars in the lot. And we all get in the car, and he gets behind the wheel. And it's like, we're. Is he having a time of his life? He's cracking up.

And whoever was sitting next to him was like, okay, go right, go left. He's like, okay, we're... And it's hysterical, and we're just dying laughing. We're cracking up. And I go, okay, this is something to remember. Yeah. So that was the most memorable thing, unfortunately, that happened. We made a good amount of music.

We all took turns trying to be Junior Stevie's. You know, I came up with a couple of songs that weren't really great, but, you know, whatever. And but then at one point, he left, went to New York, and that was the beginning of the end. And he started phoning things in, and then all of a sudden, he just kind of left us to fend for ourselves. And I was like, okay, you know what? so I had to make up my mind and it was a tough decision but there were two times in my life

when I felt spiritually depleted and it was crucial for me to move and that was the first time man so what this was right at the beginning of secret life of plants or

well let's see no because I was still in the band when he was working on that. I didn't play any. That was all him. What was the general... What was the general conversation? Because, you know, usually with what they call

the departure record, it's supposed to be seen as, yes, this is my artistic left turn and da-da-da-da-da. But I guess later in life, all of us here sort of discovered that the departure record is kind of a means to ruin it before you

get ruined or it's the self-sabotage move and That's what you think Secret Life for Plants was? Well, I mean, just most

most departure albums usually happen after your biggest your biggest album Right, right. And you don't want to express the fear of you having run out

of ideas or that sort of thing so it's sort of like It's safe to do a soundtrack album. Yeah, let me do the absolute left turn. Trouble Man.

Yeah. Trouble man. around the world in the day. Sargent peppers. I mean, sometimes it backfires and... And it becomes even bigger. So, I mean, what was just the general movement? Like, hey, I'm going to do an all-instrumental album.

I know the world's waiting. No, I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think it... You have to look at it like this. I think it had to do with wanting to take on the challenge of doing a score. This was a score to a movie done by a blind guy. Let's just...

Oh, I didn't know that the movie was done by blind. No, the score was the score. The score. The score. A movie that he never saw. No, I thought you meant. Okay, okay. I get it.

It's a blind guy doing a score for a movie. Who does that? Well, who does that? I see. So he. Who hires that guy? Well, somebody really crazy. Or somebody really

extra visionary. But, no, he, I think he just dug the challenge. He was really into the challenge of doing it, and that was the premiere of Sam One Your Love. But he really got into it. He really got into the challenge and wanted to know as much about the movie,

you know, as many details as he could get, and he just forced his entire being into that. For the record, that's my favorite Stevie record. And not to be contrary. Really? I mean, it's just, you know, I was eight years old and that was my pink Floyd dark side of the moon. Okay, okay.

Put the headphones on and close my eyes and imagine stuff. Sure. It just, like, I don't know about, oh, this, I have pop hooks. My dad hated it. So he's like, here, you take it. And it just spoke to me as an eight-year-old. So it's pretty well. You know, actually, we're talking to him right now about doing some, hopefully some,

some dates like to do it. and its entirety. Secret Life of Plants? Yeah. Okay, did I just let the cat tool? Yeah, you did. We won't guide this until after. Four words for you, bro.

Good luck with that. No, I mean, we're in the talking stage. It's been talking. That's all you're going to be doing. It's the longest dream. It's our dream. So, I mean, that's basically. Dreams can't come true, but I just,

good luck with that. I'll be calling you. I'm about to say, You don't need to. Arms cross, audience, arms cross. So was Destiny your first foray into arranging? And really, to me it's producing. And like why, okay, we got to get into the titles of.

Yeah. Because I only saw these credits on Jackson now. I'm like, finger snap arranger. That's because they were all dying for credit. Yeah, I get. Because they wanted, they were so desperate to be on their own, and they just wanted to do, okay, look, I'm the one that set the mic, you know, I'm the one that chose the studio, whatever it was. The Jackson's have the strangest album credits of all time that stuck with me for life.

Yeah. So talk to me about you coming aboard for Destiny. I will, but to answer the question, no, it wasn't my first foray into arranging because I was cutting my teeth. I was allowed to cut my teeth arranging wise thanks to the partnership of Dick Griffey

and Don Cornelius. Thank you. Whoa. You had to serve some time in Dick Griffeyville. Yeah. Soul Train Records. Yeah. No, don't say don't you dare say Uptown Festival. Please don't say it. Shalamars,

Disco Garden. No. But let me see. Did I do some Shalmers? You did the Soul Train Gang album? oh god i remember that but i remember doing i remember working on on different artists of there's of course i believe it of course um uh dick's dick's uh white carrie lucas lucy lucy i i did a couple of her albums i did uh there was another oh god there was another band it was like two guys and they had sort of like an indian name and i can't remember right now um but they had all these They had a small stable of artists, including The Whispers.

And I did a lot of stuff, and they let me just do, they just let me arrange. Wait, you know what's weird? In your Wikipedia, it says that. I know Carrie Lewis is my- Carrie Lucas is your blood sister. No, that is so, I don't know who, and they won't take it away. I don't know who to write to make that correction, but it's really annoying. It doesn't matter because one of the Dixie Hummingbirds was my grandfather.

Okay, there you go. got, you know, had to get embarrassed on national TV once. They told me, like, he's not your grandfather. Oops. Yeah, exactly. So you did some time under Soul Train Records. Yeah, but I enjoyed it. And I remember working a lot with The Whispers, and I remember one of the twins saying to me,

you know what your problem is? I go, no. He goes, you know too much. Go, wow. It was kind of a backhanded compliment, but, you know, You know, yeah, he's like, yeah, I didn't understand it then, but I sort of get it now. Did you work on Let's Go All the Way? Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you brought aboard, like, what, were you there just for session work or like, what was your title? I don't really think I had a title. I wasn't like a, I wasn't like a staff producer or anything like that. I was just brought into play sessions and sometimes arrange,

either horns or rhythm or whatever. Okay. Yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Now I want to get to the Jackson. Okay, go. So, dear friend of mine, Bobby Columbia. Blood, sweat and tears, right? Yeah. Okay. The drummer, who became an executive at. CBS said, you know, you need to do more arranging.

And I go, well, I don't know. No, actually you do. And here's who you're going to do it with. Next thing, you know, I'm in a room with the Jackson's. So met all the brothers. And, you know, now you have to remember the time. This was when they finally left the clutches of Motown. And this was after the Philly International thing, you know.

and so now they're trying to establish themselves as producers, but CBS was cautious, so they brought in Bobby just to make sure things didn't get too out of hand, you know. Okay. And so were you aware, I mean, was, dude, I mean, you were part of songs in the Key of Life by then. Yeah. Like, was the Jackson's or going places on your radar by then,

or was it like, yeah? Dude, no, no, no, no, no, no. I love the Jackson's. I had just as many dreams about them, just about as I had of Steve. Oh, no, absolutely, man, because the thing, well, first of all, when I was eight, and I saw the Beatles on Sullivan,

I said, right, that's what I want to do. So the Beatles just changed my life. And then the monkeys changed my life because they were the American Beatles. and then the Jackson Five are the Black Beatles. I'm like, this is fantastic. I mean, they even have their own cartoon show.

What band do you know has their own cartoon show on Saturdays? It's fantastic. So I was all, you know, please, I want you back? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me right now? So it's like, yeah, I was all about the Jackson Five. And I had visions. I'm like, wouldn't it be great if I could actually like meet them or work?

It was incredible. Next thing, you know, I'm in a room. Here they are. And we're doing the destiny album. And my first assignment was this little overly white bread tune called, Blame it on the Boogie. And they played me the devil. I was like,

Blame it on the Manzame. They're going to be a debut date. I'm like, okay, well, let's see how we can fuck this up. How does the original version is jamming, though? I like the original. Did you like the original? Mick Jackson. Yeah.

Well, back then it seemed cute. It's kind of white. It works now because no one expects it when. Yeah, exactly. You spin it? Yeah. What the hell was it? Exactly.

But back then it was like, really? We're going to make this a Jackson thing? So my... So Bobby brought that song to you guys? I can't remember if Bobby brought it to them. Were they open to it? Well, actually, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, you know. Generally speaking, yeah. But my mantra back then was, all right, I'm out here on my own. What would Stevie do? That was my thing. What would Stevie do? What would Stevie do? So, you know, and I would bring in, like, former band members to play on, you know, those early recordings. And so I'm always thinking, what would Stevie do? So it's like, all right, see, got to make it funky. So that's what, you know, that was the basis of that. And then, you know, things built from there.

I didn't do the horn arrangements for that song, but they did turn out. not cool. Was that Tom Tom, Tom? It wasn't. It wasn't Tom Tom. Not yet. I don't, I don't remember who did the horns for that.

But Tom Tom, Tom didn't come until later on. I mean, Tom, Tom did the horns for, Shake Your Body Down. I mean, that was, you know. Okay. And they wanted, by that point,

they definitely wanted the Earthwind fire influence, you know. So we got a little Tom Washington come in with his crazy self. I love Tom. Okay. But for Destiny, yeah, that was the first song.

And then we just took it from there. And it was, you know, marriage made in heaven. How do you even approach? Like, you're dealing with the five of them. Who's the alpha as far as, like, the music ideas? Who do you have to, like, who's the dad? Who's the person that you have to get the idea from? Because I'm certain then it's like, well, I want my piece.

It was all of them. It was all of them in that way, you know. But was it a psychological thing? thing where it's like you have the Jedi mind trick and I don't like this arrangement and I don't like this song and my mind Jermaine was vocal. He was gone. He was gone. Okay so Jackie was vocal.

No, Jackie was actually not as vocal certainly not as vocal as Jermaine. I think the main characters in that scenario. Wait, give me one second. Anyone? Yeah. Sorry. I lost something.

I found it. Okay. Damn. Loud and wrong. All right. You know, I'm having so much fun right now. I want to do another one because these guys are wagging. I mean, did Jermaine come around? I just in my mind.

Okay, I'll give up. All right. Staten. Oh, you had the crush. Okay, all right. Oh, sorry. Oh. It's more of a Marlon, girl.

Let's see. Okay, so we had Michael. Randy. Randy. Marlin, Jackie, and Tito. Okay. So the

most vocal were Michael Marlin and Randy. Randy was one of the more creative ones. Okay. For sure. Yeah. And,

but all the ideas were just kind of run through the general pipeline between all of them. It wasn't I don't remember being as difficult as you might think. But, you know, here's the thing, though. So the question.

They usually love, they generally love my ideas, you know. What was the division of labor like working on destiny? Like who did what? Oh, gosh. Well, a little foggy on the best way to answer that. they all kind of wanted to chip in. For instance, with, can you feel it was on Triumph, right? Okay, so I got to go to that album as an example.

So can you feel it specifically? I had, you know, several orchestral ideas. And one of them was like, you know, during the main part of the vamp, you know, So you got that thing going on, and then you got, so I had it to where, you know, you'd have an orchestra chime, followed by a gong,

I mean, by a timpany. So you'd be like, one, d, three, four, like that. Right. So you'd have that, you know, you'd have like one eighth note being the orchestra chime

and then the very next eighth note being the timpani. And so they, you know, we had one guy do the, chime and another guy did the timpony everybody wanted to you know play a part in it and it was cool you know um so i would just answered by saying they all kind of wanted to do whatever they could it was reasonable just to contribute yeah question about things i do for you oh yeah now it's 78 so all in all about earth winter fire is about a year old how much did jupiter have to do with that song

because basically, like, East, dude, five minutes later, 15 seconds later, like, literally the first verse and the bridge of things I do for you is like from the DNA of Jupiter by Earthwood and Fire, of which, I mean, I can imagine that, you know, most songs, I mean, I even think that the DNA of Teddy Pendergrasses, get up, get down, can funky get loose, was, somewhat of a basis for Shake Your Body Down to the Ground. Wow, you really get deep with this, don't you? It's frightening, isn't it? It's frightening.

Most songs, but... I don't think of it that deep. But the thing is, is that most songs, most songs are usually started with songs that you might mind. There's a germ somewhere. And then how can I twist it and make it my own? I totally agree with that. I did not think of it.

And it got to give it up. You know, being funbo is all about. Let's dance. Let's shout. Getting fun with it's all about. You know, that was out in 76. So I can imagine that the DNA of that stuff just being up in the air and them taking it. Okay.

Well, while I never looked at it that way for that song, I do see your point. And to that point, it's very possible because I can tell you that they were highly influenced by EWF as well. we all were because for a heartbreak hotel oh yeah they wanted

the exact same bass sound from fantasy they wanted that they specifically talked about that to the point where we brought in Verneen to try to have him

duplicated on do do do do do d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- you know, right? And he couldn't. I mean, because he sat him down and asked him, what was that sound? He was like, I don't know. We couldn't get that thick sound that was like, you know, in fantasy, because they wanted to duplicate it for Hartford Hotel. And it was close, but it wasn't, actually it wasn't even close.

It wasn't, it wasn't that same sound from fantasy. and we were slightly disappointed, but we used it anyway. So what was I going to say about that? Yeah, so, I mean, to your point about that other, what was the song you brought up? Things I do for you. It's possible.

I just never looked at it that way, but it's an interesting take. Well, also, you're in the thick of disco. Yeah. and I'm super shocked. There's no four on the floor. I mean, the remix to blame it on the bookie was four and a floor enough with the little extra conga things. But you guys were obviously putting all of your eggs in the basket of shake your body down to the ground.

I guess I was going to say, what do you think that was? But here's the thing, though. It's like, that was such, not since 7779311. have I heard a funk song in which the one, the two, the three and the four are not even emphasized. Okay, Amir, I have two words for you.

Hit me. You're welcome. Yeah, but it was... You know, I came up with the beat. I know you did. That's why you're here. Yeah, okay. But it's like...

It's... It's... It's... It's 1978. Yeah. And disco is at... It's... blaming. I mean, you guys were basically

David to this Goliath moment. I don't know. Why did y'all decide to take that risk? I didn't even look at it like that. I don't know if they did. I certainly didn't. I just, my thing was what would Stevie do? And I wanted to come up with something really cool. And you wanted to go with funk and not disco?

That's how it spoke to me. So I wasn't thinking about disco. I was thinking about what would be the most effective way to make this this long song remain interesting six minutes later was there even a suggestion for a bridge or no no because it was cool we all knew that it was cool the way it was i i just wanted to give it something unique rhythmically that would drive it. And my, and my, my, my, my inspiration was, was Steve's unorthodox drumming style.

With the high hat and stuff? Yeah, yeah. So you were thinking like, love having you around, like that whole like, yeah, I was thinking what was Steve you do? Yeah. I was thinking what was Steve you do? So that's why I came over, you know, the high hat, the Tom's everything. And by the way, when we had Ed Green, the legendary session drummer played, he couldn't

play the whole thing. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I know you. He had to do it in three different. Okay. So when we got, we, when, yeah, I heard the, the breakdown of it. Yeah. I heard the master.

Yeah. Okay. And once I pulled the second and the third edition of the drums away and heard just a typical. Boot. I was like, oh, this is a normal drum break. Oh yeah. No, no. No.

What it was. But why did you? That was the first take. I heard that. Right. And then the times and then the time's. And then the high. So what was on your mind when you added those tom-toms and in such an odd spot?

Because I didn't add it in my head I was able to play the whole thing at once. So the entire thing was so that's how I was hearing it. And that's but since he could only do one bit at a time, that's how we, you know, mapped it out. But for me, it was the whole rhythmic concept that I felt would, work for the whole song. That was not normal thinking though. Well, that's because I'm a keyboard player. It wasn't normal.

It's the equivalent. I'll explain it. It's the equivalent of, all right, if you go to a roulette table with $100 and then let's say like you got lucky and then you made $300 and you could just, you're walking away and you're in the parking lot. Greg basically did the rhythm version of, wait, I'll be our back. And he ran and just put everything on like one. Really?

Not even on all black. He just, I'm going to play 42 and see what happens. And there's no 42 on roulette. But he won. He's still won. And he won. It's Russian roulette.

Wow. Really? Is that how you look at it? Dude, because it's like they got three chances. I mean, okay, the Jackson's was fine and they went gold and it was cute. And then, you know, the little summer series thing on CBS kind of sustained them. But going places was like a decline. And I love that record still.

But they needed this. Oh, they needed desperately. They needed a miracle. For sure. Yeah. This was Super Bowl Patriots versus the Giants. Right. Crunch time.

With, yes, I'm making a football restaurant. Yes, I'm waiting for me to mess up. Yeah. What you saw in the Super Bowl, the last 10 seconds left and the Giants just through a hell, Mary pass. Yeah. Look at you. Okay.

That's my first sports reference I got to correct. No, dude, that's just amazing to me because... Well, thank you. No, because I, Lai, I wasn't really looking at it that way. I just... First of all, if I felt that kind of pressure, I'm sure I wouldn't have come over with that. But, I mean, I just, you know, they played me the song, and I thought, oh, that's so cool.

Let's dance. So you're not conscious of your genius. Stop that. I wasn't, I didn't, all I wanted to do was come up with a really hip and different groove. And again, it goes back to what would Stevie do? And that's, that was the inspiration for the whole thing. Does he know that? Does he know that you think you approach things that way?

Does Steve know? Yeah, does he know. I think he does. Or did he know that he, I know, he was the template for that song? No, he didn't know it then. Wow. No. So don't stop to you get enough.

Did that bridge write itself? Great. We know the song, guys. We're giving you some background music for the conversation. You're going to play it anyway. No, but you can play it. But actually, I should have brought my little souvenir. We found it, by the way.

You found it? It's a podcast. It's not visual anyway. But, you know, I have, at the house, I have a 45 with both our names. Yeah, we were the name. Yeah, we were talking about that night. Yeah. Yeah, we found about after you, okay, so backstory, Greg did me and Boss Pills class in NYU where he told us this story that he's about to tell.

And since then, it's been my mission to find every 45 with your name on it. And I have three now. Really? Yeah, hell yeah. That's my obsession. Any, any, don't stop to you get enough with your name on the writer's credits. Wow. I found it.

All right. So tell, tell the story. Okay. Well. And, you know, Spike asked me to tell the story, too, when he did the doc for, what was it? Off the wall. Right. and I did

and he loved it but it didn't make it the estate the estate said I don't think so or the estate has no control over this show so yeah okay because they say it was like I don't think so cousin I don't think so

so um get a call from Mike he wants me to come by to write a song heard to hear a song to write i go okay so i hop on over to havenhurst and um uh see him and he uh plays me this thing it's just needs something uh it just needs another section so i hear it and um you know

it's fantastic i mean you know everything's there the first the hook you know it's a cool groove everything is great. It says, yeah, it just needs one more section. So I go and probably in the time that it would take you to hum the Jeopardy theme song,

I came up with Cue Bridge. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ha. So I played that and then I said, so what do you think? He goes, I like it. Go, yeah? He says, yeah. He says, well, cool.

So when I'm thinking, okay, well, now he did ask me to come over to write. So I'm guessing I should call myself a co-writer. So I says, well, so I, what am I going to get a? piece of this? He goes, yeah. I go, really? He says, yeah. I says, well, what do you think?

He goes, what do you think? I go, what do you think? So we're going back and forth on that. So now in my mind, there's another sound for what's going on in my mind that kid. But it's just like, the wheels are spinning

and all this is happening in nanoseconds, right? So I'm thinking, oh my God, what do I think? What do I say? How much? 50% No, that's too much 40, no, not quite

35, I don't know 25, well maybe I'm not sure, 15, I don't know so I keep talking myself down I talk myself down I talk myself, I admit it To what number? So I says, well, how about 10%

Oh my That sounds fair I know, I know, I know, but stay with me So I says, what about 10% And he goes, okay. I go, really? He goes, yeah. I don't even know how I drove home because I'm sure I could have levitated.

I'm like, so I'm just like loopy at this point, right? And I'm just so excited. Some days pass, I get something in the mail. It's a contract. open it up and I'm looking and I'm scrolling out first of all I don't even pay attention to the fact that they misspelled my last thing I don't even care I don't even care that they use the T instead of a P I don't care I don't care filling games fill in T H instead of PH yeah so I don't care I don't care I'm at the top of the contract anyway I don't care I scroll down I go man I'm looking for the punchline and I see 10% set. I go, it's in there. Okay. It's in there. I'm in there.

I'm in it. So, some more time passes, right? Some more days passed. And then I got a phone call. And it's from one of Mike's managers at the time. It was either Ron Reisner or Freddie Demand.

It was probably Freddie. And he says, hey, Greg, you know that? Contract Pretender. I said, yes, no problem. It's on the way back to you. Any second out. No worry. He's like, well, not so fast. And this is where you have the sound effect for a breaking car.

Well, that would work too. And I go, what do you mean not so fast? He goes, well, Michael's been thinking about this. And turns out that he is determined that what you did was more of an arrangement. So that falls under the category. of arrangement. So what we're going to do is we're just going to

to pass on that we're going to pass on that contract part. So thanks for your contribution and we'll check back with you. What did you get for the arrangement? I mean, what's the difference about it? Oh, God.

Yeah. Well, I got a pat on the back. Uh-uh. And, uh, Laya, see, this was my introduction to business. Okay. So do you, slight question, though.

Okay. Did you? Because I have a lot more to say about it. Did you, No, this is, let me, this is one of the times I got to interrupt.

So with destiny and triumph, with destiny and triumph, weren't there any talks of, hey guys, can I get co-production at least or what am I doing here? Here are those sessions, you're like leading that shit.

Yeah, I know, I know. And yes, there were, and there was an answer for that question. No. No, there was an answer. The answer came in the form of the term associate producer. Mm. Mm.

Which doesn't mean. It doesn't mean anything. But, you know, they figured they just throw me half of an old bone and shut me up. That's the answer to that question. But I got to go back because, as I was saying to Elia, my introduction to business. and the fact that I was not only young, but of the makeup that didn't want to fight. Yeah.

Non-confrontational. And this is the difference between me and I'd say nine out of the 10 artists in today's world because they are freaking savvy and they don't care. and I applaud them for that. I applaud them for their business savvy and their their their understanding. But unfortunately, in a lot of ways,

nothing has changed from what happened to me and 40 years before that in the 50s to these days, because there's still those horror stories of people just being grossly unfair for virtually no reason. And who did you, you said the 10% went of broken? Of course not.

That's not the issue. The issue is the appearance. No, yeah, I want it all. And the issue is the, but now while this is going on, while these days are passing and while the, you know,

the contracts in the works, and before I get the phone call from Freddie, the 45, the single was already going to print. It was, already being pressed. That's why you have initial copies with my name and Michaels

because even people like Quincy thought, oh man, Greg is in. He's in there, man. He was so proud of me. And then, you know, because that was the first pressing. So it already went to press with my name on it only for Michael to change his mind later on. See, that's when we talked to Quincy. He had this kind of disposition of, yeah, that's Michael and that was

messed up, but that's Michael. Yeah, but guess what? There's a Quincy version of that too. And if you want to hear that Quincy Jones story, make sure you tune in next week for Part 2 for the Questlove Supreme interview with the one and only Greg Philling game. Yeah, I don't know. I'm sorry to leave y'all hanging like that, but you know how it is, y'all.

Make sure y'all come back next week. We'll have more treats for y'all. We'll see you on the next round. See you. Questlove Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team. at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio,

visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserved.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.