The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Howard Hewett

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Closing the Black Music Month run of classics, Howard Hewett joined Questlove Supreme back in 2021 for an intimate, wide-ranging conversation about one of the most remarkable voices in R&B. From his formative years in Akron, Ohio, to his breakthrough with Shalamar and his enduring solo career, Hewett reflects on the artistry, discipline, and faith that have sustained him through decades in music. Questlove and Team Supreme explore Hewett's vocal approach, the evolution of Shalamar, the realities of the music business, and the creative partnerships that shaped his career. Along the way, Hewett opens up about his spiritual journey, the lessons he's learned through personal and professional challenges, and the perspective that continues to guide his life and music. Filled with behind-the-scenes stories, musical deep dives, and heartfelt reflections, the episode offers a portrait of a consummate vocalist whose influence extends far beyond his chart success, revealing why Howard remains a true singer's singer and a beloved figure in music.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What up, what up, people. June is here, and that means it's Black Music Month. And at Quest Love Supreme, now the Quest Love Show, we've taken this month seriously. It's our chance to celebrate black music, document its history, and recognize the impact it continues to have on our culture around the world. throughout June, we'll be bringing you an episode every day. My team and I have gone back through the archives and pulled together conversation, stories, and moments that helped tell a bigger story about black music and the people who shaped it. We also got four brand new Quest Love Show episodes coming your way, spotlining artists, thinkers, innovators, cultural shifters, revolutionaries from across the spectrum of black music, past, present, and future.

Thanks for spending your part of June with us. Happy Black Music Month. All right. Oh, damn. Unpaid bills here? What the hell? Oh, snap, son. Here I am.

Jesus Christ. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questal Supreme. Starring me, Unpaid Bill. Thank you very much. Yeah, starring Unpaid Bill. Damn. You're in the house. house. Even with a Tony, you're still with us. I know. I'm this close from not. I'm here for now.

Stay slumming, Bill. Stay slumming. The second you complete your egot, you're not going to mess with this anymore. The second I egot before you, hell yeah. I'm getting the fuck out. It's called Bill Love Supreme. Fuck at all. I'm taking everybody with me. Fante's coming too. And he says, right? La Hire! All right, sugar Steve, you're still loyal, correct? To Bill Sherman, yes. Okay.

All day. Hey, at least you're loyal to somebody. We got Foncigolo in the crib. What's up, brother? You call? Oh, that's good, bro. Yeah, I'm good, man. We down 26, because we're doing it.

Nice. Nice. We move in weight, son. I like the fact that we down 26 actually is a good thing because normally that could mean, like, Atlanta's down by 26. Oh, you down $26,000? Exactly. Exactly.

Nah, we're good. What, it was a game? Nah, man. You know, it's still trying to be- Trying to live past 50. Yes, which is, you know, struggle, super struggle. Laiya, how are you? Hey, I'm good, man.

I'm feeling all right. Feeling all right. We're good. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, what can I say? Our guess is a freaking legend, known to us, of course, of course as one third of probably one of my favorite groups. I don't know.

I can't categorize Shalimar as a soul group. I can't categorize them as a pop group or a Boogie group. But, you know, I mean, because they transitioned between disco, between Boogie and between New Wave 80s pop. You know, they were everlasting. And, you know, of course, our guest today is without saying. a singer's singer, a real singer, and an awesome singer has had such a story career, singing the soundtrack of our lives.

I don't even want to waste one minute. In my patented long 19 minute intros, I will just say, welcome to Quest Left Supreme, be one and only Howard Hewitt. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yes, indeed. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

Yeah, I can't wait until we're off of Zoom so we could have like real hand claps again. I know. Like the last seven episodes were all. Yeah, he's breathing. But that's what it's a killer because that's exactly what it sounds like when you're in like a huge crowd.

Right, exactly. Right. All right. We'll look up the effects for you. How are you today? What's going on? Very well, man. Very well.

Just like we were talking earlier about that I do my own. My daily walking, I'm trying to stay ahead of this heat out here. It's like crazy, man. Really crazy out here in California. Well, where I am, it's different temperatures, different. Talk about it. Yeah, Long Beach.

Out of the Long Beach yesterday, it was like 77 degrees. Out here, all day yesterday was like 100. And real field was 108. So, Jesus Christ. Wait, what? 108, man. That was one of those times. You just stay in the house.

You don't even go outside. Close the curtains. Actually, you mentioned something that this actually might be inspirational for me. How often do you have to commit to the daily walk? I'll admit that I will often let my work schedule become my excuse to get out of it. So I've been sort of religious about the daily walk. But in the last two weeks, I've sort of slug. lacked off on it just due to the scheduling of it. But how important is the daily walked?

Because before we were rolling, we were just basically talking about the struggle to survive, especially for black people to struggle to survive past 50 without, you know, some sort of condition happening. So, you know, like, I'm certain that most of us that are on our walking thing is doing it for health reasons and whatnot. So conditioning, you know, conditioning. And, and, but for me, especially for the past, uh, year. since the pandemic. It was almost like in the beginning of the pandemic, it was a spiritual thing for me

because it was like, it was almost like God said to me, he said, I'm going to remove everything from you that can distract you from me. You dig what I'm saying? I'm 100%. Me and my girl broke up a couple months before COVID. You know, my best partner, I'm not saying that. That's why he took him away from here.

But he passed like in the very beginning, of uh of uh of of COVID I known this this cat since I was 20 years old and my best friend right so but through my career I've gone through you know death my mom and dad you know I've gone through breakups and all that kind of stuff some of the saddest times that I spent in my career was spent on stage you did what I'm saying because I and I had my work I always had my work and so so he said no more distractions now yeah and he said he said he said and I I'm going to take that away from you right now. You know, poor seed.

You got to deal with some things. And then my next question in my spirit was now what you're going to do? You know what I'm saying? And so that's when I did a daily, I did a daily reading. I get up. I read a daily situation. I read. I started from Genesis in my Bible and went, I'm all the way up almost halfway through the New Testament now.

You know? And all the way. And every day, because when I built my house, I had them build a deck off of right off. I can roll out of bed in five or six steps. I'm right outside on my deck. You know what I'm saying? So that was my daily devotion between me, God, Christ, the Holy Spirit. And so it was like, and with that, I started a whole situation as far as like we were being shut in.

But that didn't mean that we had to be cospitators. So like when I, in the beginning of the pandemic, you know, I got out on my bike. There's like a 15, 20 mile route that I can take around my crib. I got on, I got out on my bike. And then in the middle of that 15, 20 mile route, I decided I stopped to take a break. And I said, well, let me go on Facebook, my Facebook fan page live. Let me go on live for a minute. And I went on there and all these people started flooding into the thing.

Howard, what's up? What's going? Well, how are you doing? you know what's happening, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then that told me that people are in. But, you know, and the thing about this pandemic, about this virus, rather, is that it thrives on, it thrived on low immune systems. It thrived on low vitamin D deficiencies, which is really heavy in all, especially within black people. Right.

And so, like, it was like my, that's what I started. When I started, I said, okay. okay, I'm gonna do my walk because I do like a four mile walk. And at first I was walking and had my phone in my hand. Right. I'm walking and talking at the same time, right? And then I'm like, I wouldn't get any benefit from the walk, actually, because I'm not pacing myself.

So then eventually I did in the middle of the four miles after about two miles, I'd stop at a specific place and then I'd talk, right? Okay. At first, at first it was FACC dot, dot, dot, and life, right? Fresh air, cardio, all that leads to life. You know what I'm saying? And then after we started talking and I started having these conversations, my, you know, take on what was happening as far as the last administration was concerned,

my take on, you know, the virus, my take on this, my take, and people were chiming in. Then it became a conversation. So then I added FACC at another. the C dot dot in life, fresh air, cardio, conversation, which adds to communication, understanding each other and all that leads to life. You know what I'm saying? So it's almost like now after all this time, it's like I feel like I'm obligated to get on there for my people. So like, you know, the people that have dedicated themselves to being there. So I have a dedication

to that myself. So on top of that, getting, you know, my health and keeping my health up and keeping everything up, you know, it's like, okay, I can take the time to do all that stuff. Sometimes, you know, the schedule will, like, get in the way as far as, like, how early I start, how early I can get out there. But I'm always going to get out there. You know what I'm saying? Every day. Every day. I'm out there every day. I love it. Even on the weekend. I don't come online on the weekend. I don't go live on the weekend,

but I get out there and do something on the weekend. Do a daily show. Okay. Yeah, right. Well, Yeah. How are you? Just let it be known that you're definitely the straw that broke the.

All right. Fine. If you, that's what I need to do here. Yeah. Because people have been good on me like, yo, man, you slacking off, man.

You were committed. You da-da-da, you falling off. Like, you know, my partners that I walk with and all that stuff. stuff. So they were getting on me today about that. Like, you ain't walked in like 10 days of mirror. So, all right. I now know. I now know that I have to. It's important, man. It's really important because, you know, all you got, if you don't have anything else, you know, you got and you have your health, if everything's jacked up, everything can be going well. But if you don't have your health, man, that's crazy. It's crazy. And then if stuff is jacked up and your health is jacked up,

That's like a whole other thing. There's a whole other situation. You're absolutely right. Well, brother, you look awesome. Like you look great and great health. That's the 65-year-old goal. That's it. 65, brother.

Wow. Late 40s to me. Yeah, like for real. For real. He still look great. So, yeah, the question I want to pose to you, of course, is the first question I was ask on the show. Could you please tell us,

what your first musical memory was? My first musical memory, man, was actually, I would think Isley brothers, Sam Cook, and my grandmother's garage when we would have all the holidays. We would, it would always be at my grandmother, my grandma Fitzhue's house. What, you mean records or in person? No, records.

I'm talking about I say, damn. I was like, whoa. Oh, you're talking about live as far as... No, no, no, no, no. I meant just your first musical memory. All right. Yeah, that's my music. That's my musical.

Because we played, I was in, when I was five years old, four or five years old, I was in charge of, like, playing the 45s and stuff. And they clear out the garage and put a turntable in there. And we had the 45s and stuff. So I remember chain gang, I don't know, Sam Cook. and Twits and Shout, of course, you know, the Isley brothers. Isley, yeah. Yeah, I remember I did, you know, I did about, about 20 cities with Ron Isley about some years,

about six, seven, eight years ago. And usually when I do a show, I'm usually, I do my show and I'm gone. Or if I'm headlining, I get there 20 minutes before I go on and that's it. I don't want to get there and hang around and stuff. And if I'm on before the headliner, then I'm going to be on. gone but with with ron when i was out there with ron and and and uh isy brothers and with ernie and and stuff man every night i was like in the wings you know i was just like watching because he took me all the way back to when i was like five years old you know five six seven four five six seven

years old and then he called me you called me out on stage every once a while man and that was like what you're all right you know but that's my first First, as far as musical situation, I think that's a foundation that I had and then, you know, went into the whole gospel thing. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say that, okay, that makes sense because usually every musical great has some sort of DJ curation experience before they get into their profession. So that makes sense that you were in charge of the family collection. All DJs want to be singers and all singers want to be DJs. You're saying I was hanging out with Frankie Crocker a lot back in the day.

Wow. That was one of my best partners. What was he like, man? Was he, you know, because he's known him as that personality. Was he really out there like that? No. Frankie was the most down, down nigger in the world. Really?

I mean, you know, and I remember because when we first. But it was so proper all the time I heard him speak and that I heard. You know what I'm saying? I said, I'm going to. on the Quest Love show, I gotta be proper. Niggick. No, no, you. No, you.

No, you. Frankly, you must ain't listen to the Quest Love show for. I was just about to say. I've done my homework. Hey, bro. Hey, no, we keep it out of here, bro. Let it go. No, no, no.

No, Frank was down, nicked boy. He was like, and it was like, when I first met him, you know, we, it was, we had a second time around out. So we were good out of the, a lot of the promotion in New York and stuff. And, and, and, uh, we got to the we got to WBLS and he wasn't ready yet. So the lady that was the rep that was from the record company,

she said, okay, while we're waiting on Frankie, we'll go over down to this other, I forget what station was, Kiss or something like that. That was Kiss, yeah. And so we went down there, did the interview and stuff and then we came back and like Frankie, we're sitting out in the lobby of BLS and Frankie comes out.

When he walks out, you know, this is tall, I mean, black nigger, man, he's like, Fine features, you know, and I remember reading about Frankie when I was like 15, 16 years old when he got into the thing with the payola thing. So I remember there was like an article in Playboy. And of course, you know, I never looked at the picture. Oh, we read the articles. We wrote the articles.

I'm proud of you. But it talked about his whole or deal with the peola situation. and the fact and the time that he, when he came back after Phil, he came back riding up 125th Street on the white stallion. Yeah, that's what I heard about him. Wow. He was giving me a class. Yeah.

He was always saying. So like we, when he came out, he stood up there and he just kind of stood there, right? And we're sitting there. He said, I got my spies out. I know y'all went to the other station. Y'all heard you know. That's how we started out, right? So we went in and then he looked at it and we was doing the interview and

And he says, you know, your voice reminds me a gladys night. And I'm like, glad it's night. What? Come on, man. Glad it's night. Yeah, I'm flattered, but glad it's night. That's a chick, right? So, and, and so then that's how our whole thing started out.

And I kind of clamped up on the, on the interview because I also heard about the Izzy brother interview, the historic Isley Brother interview when they got in the fight on, you know, Whoa. They live. I've never heard of that one. I don't know about this. Look at it. Let us know.

Let us know. Let us know. Fight live on the air, you know what? That's a lot of Isley brothers. Like five on one? That was before any, that's five. That's before any of them passed away. So they were all on there.

All of them. Chris Jasper, too. Six. Right, right. Eyesie and Jasley. A tall tree. But check out. So like later on, we said, you know, I saw him, I think, because we were there doing

the thing, I think it was at, uh, Madison Square or something like that, one of those big festivals. And so at the, you know, when I saw him later on that, night or the next night or something he said look i got a house you know and in beverly hills you know off off bend the canyon he said he said here's that you know we exchange numbers and stuff he said when you're when you're back in town when you're off the road give me a car you come up you know have some dinner i say cool you know that's good i said and so a couple two three weeks later we're going i'm i'm home and i give him a car and he says yeah come on left for dinner and i'm thinking you know

all right frankie crocker's house i know he got ladies all over the plate and the pool the whole thing. I'll be rolling, you know. And I got up there and it was me, him, and his mom, Miss Brocker. And he took care of his mom. And like from that point on, we got jam tight. It was like, that was my, that was my man.

That was my man. So, you know, yeah, he was, he was, he was not the persona, basically. I mean, he lived large. Don't don't get wrong. And he, we, He demanded his respect as far as that's concerned. But he wasn't some unordily, you know, crazy deal with.

He had a house in Beverly Hills and he was in New York personality too? Yeah. Yeah. It must have been a house up on, off of Benedict Canyon. Yeah. No question. He was the highest played like black radio jock in the country. So was he doing syndicated back then or was it just?

He was doing, he would do, I think syndication. syndication was just coming in maybe not too long after that. But he had, he's had that house up there for a long time. I see it. I'm about to say, that's what I was thinking, the pay-oh. Through clenched teeth, you're living by coast, they're going to put you in the paper.

Maybe, you know, not. Yeah, I see. But, do you, do you remember the, first album that you purchased with your own money? With my own money? I don't remember which one, what it was exactly. I can't say back in the day. And also be stolen, too, just in case you didn't pay for it.

I'm just saying. People have stopped stealing their first records. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But see, you know, I come from my household. I have four older sisters, you know what I'm saying? And so they- Oh, you're the baby of four. Oh, wow.

Okay. So like, what was that household? Oh, you know too much. I had to. I think of an album, though, I do believe an album that I would have purchased. It might not have been the very first one, but it's like Parliament, Funkadelic and, you know, all that kind of stuff, like maggot brains. And I love that, the Eddie Hazel situation. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'd take it, I know you were born in Ohio, but I don't know what city you were. were born in Akron, Akron, Ohio. Akron, okay. Yeah. Wait a minute.

Okay. This explains it. All right. So I know that James Ingram is also from Akron, Ohio. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I assume that you two were really good friends. 15.

I met James when I was 15. Wow. So this explains why you two are also seeing background on PYT together. Exactly. Uh-huh. Okay. I was with James when he got the demo for just once, you know. And he's like, man, how to listen to it?

Because we live right around the corner from each other at that time. And he said, man, and he said, listen to this. What do you think about this? I said, man, I think that's a cold blood song. He said, man, this is some pop pussy right here. Man, this is a pop pussy. Oh, oh. And I said, I said, yeah, yeah.

That's right. That's true, boy. And, you know, but see, when Jane, when I was back in Ohio, my group was called Life, Life, F, E. So Life Jennings. Life Jennings. Like, wasn't the first nigga to say that, right? Right. You all was first. Okay.

We spelled LYFE Life Band and Show, and it was like seven of us. And we were like 15, 16, 17, 18. I think Ricky Parker, Ricky Fletcher was 18, 19, 19 years old. And so we were protégés of Revelation Funk, which James played keyboards. And they were all like about four years old and then us. So James played keyboards and sang background because he didn't consider himself a lead singer, right? And they had this lead singer named Bernard Lawson. He's still back in Akron now.

Bernard Lawson, to this day, can sing me under my desk over here. This boy was, Oh, really? What is, you're talking about going from natural, effortlessly up into your force? He had that back, he had that down back there. Tall, lanky brother, and like a dance

and dance and sing the same time. And it was like, I mean, they were funky. Revelation Funk was funky. Wait a minute. Okay, so what's the name? That's the group that James Ingram was in that he was playing keyboards in? Revelation. Ah, damn it, damn it, damn it.

The ones from, every day, is they? In Dolomite? Yeah, so weren't they? A dolomite movie? I think they were a dolomite movie. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Because they came out here. They came out here. Bernard never came out here because the Lord called him back to the church, fortunately, because there was some crazy stuff that was happening. But they had this cat named Wucci, Wayne Arnold that came out. Wayne was bad, too. I don't know what he's doing now. Name like that.

You got to be bad. No, Wucci. Who's be Wayne Arnold. What happened to make the names like Wucci? So we were like. Nobody called Gucci anymore. But they came out here, and they only stayed together out here about a year and a half, maybe two years or so, and then they broke up. And James stayed out, Dap, the drummer, stayed out.

T. Tucker, the bass player, stayed out here. And so, you know, and then for James, the rest was his. He started working with Ray Charles and a bunch of other people and stuff and, you know, in the studio and stuff. It was cool. Just to get this straight. James Ingram sounded like that at 15 years old. No, nothing has ever changed. Well, he was about when I first met him, he was 19 because he was about four years

older than me. And, yeah, I mean, he had to all that stuff down hard. It's like, but he didn't develop it and really kind of take it out where it's supposed to be until, you know, until they got it, until he went solo. So. One more thing. So if you were friends with James, were you at all in proximity of his brother, Philip, at the time when Philip was developing a switch? Mm-hmm.

Switch also has Akron connections, correct? Yeah. Philip, Philip was like, Phillips is his younger brother. So Phillips younger than me. And Phillips grew back in Akron, man, what was the name? I forget their name. We had weird names back there. There was a group called Pickett Fence.

I don't know what that was about. But it was like, you know, but Philip was with raw soul, I think it was. And I mean, Akron was an amazing place to grow up, man. And the rubber cap was the rubber capital of the world at that time. So middle class was thriving. It was like, you know, it was. And you either did, you either did music. You did, you worked in the rubber factory, or you were,

pimp one or the other. You know, then some cats tried to do all three. All three, all three. Pimping, have some rubbers and send you. Philip. I think the name of Phillips group was raw,

so if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, Philip had a great voice and everything. And when they came out with Switch, I didn't even have a deal at that time. I was talking to Elle about that just the other day. Because every time I listen to Elle, I hear Bobby.

You know what I'm saying? And it's, It's just, it's crazy. And so they came out and, you know, it was like Eddie Flewellyn, the trumpet player. Eddie and I, Eddie and I went to grade school, junior high and graduated high school together. So when they came out, I would go, you know, I heard they were coming out, Germaine was bringing them out. And so I went and hung out with them at the studio, you know, while they were, while they were recording,

I call your name or something like that. And I would just sit there. and all just listening to Bobby he could do that because I think it was his false but that wasn't his false that was his natural voice just like I was listening to Elle the other night Elle's false

is his natural voice that's his natural voice right and so you know it's you know it was amazing it was amazing as far as I was concerned so yeah Philip and Eddie came out when Switch came out question I

do remember I think I remember during one of the interviews with Don Cornelius on Soul Train, where you talked about you were actually dancing on the show first? Is that true? Were y'all just joking with each other? I was never a soul trained dancer. Okay. I thought I heard, okay, there's, because it was said with a laugh. So I was like, wait, I don't know if he's serious or not, but okay. I knew if that was true. I was dating this lady that worked for Don at the Soul Train dance studios in the office in the front office. Penn Brown? No, no, no, no, no, no.

Her name was right. Oh, Hugh. Honey, Cunning. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Jesus Christ, I can't believe I'm talking to you right now.

How are you? Documentary time. No, no, no, no, no, no. It just hit me. You literally have christened a human being. with my all-time favorite name. I read about this in right on. Do you have a daughter named Rainy Days?

Rainy Days, D-A-Z-E, brother. Yo, when I read that shit, when I was 10 years old, I'm like, I'm going to have a girl, and I'm a name of Rainy Days. Like, it just, wow, that's crazy. Her mom, you know, eventually became my wife. She was the mother and my two older daughters. But when Rainey was born,

the Rainy was the only child that I didn't see come out, you know, because I was on the road. I had my oldest daughter with me. She was like a year and a half at the time. Right. And so her mom was so huge. I was like, look, I'm going to take Lakeva. My oldest daughter's name is Lakeva, you know, which was the name.

Lekeva, K-I-V-E, which is the name I made up when I was 19 years old. I used to go to Kent State for a minute. And like I used to walk past Kiva Hall, this hall called Kiva Hall. And I say, every morning I'm walking to my first class. I'm saying, wow, Kiva. Kiva would be a beautiful name for a little girl, but add a la on the front of the letter. You know, all right. That is so black.

You got all the names, Bill. You got all the names, correct, Bill? I got it. I got it. You can call me. You can call me La, LeBelle, that automatically blackens anything. LeBille and my friend Lafonte and. I'm already like here.

Got you. So like, but like, I took Lekeva out on the road with me because her mom was so huge. I just wanted her to concentrate on being pregnant, not having the kids. Right, having it. So she was having to take care of one and a half kids. So I took my daughter out on the road with me. So we would work at the time, Salamar, we were working Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So Thursday, I'd finish the show Monday, I mean Sunday, rather,

I'd finish the show. Then Monday morning, me and Kiva would jump on the plane, fly back here to L.A., sit there, you know, I'd take her to the beach, walk her on the sand, you know, our whole thing, trying to make that baby drop, you know what I'm saying? And after got three weeks or so, going back and forth, back and forth, I was like wiped out. So we were near Ohio. And I called her, And I said, you know, how you feel? She said, I don't feel. I said, look, me and Kiva are going to go to my mom's house and just chill. So went to my mom's house and said enough, we got there on Monday.

And like Tuesday or Wednesday, she had the baby, right? So we named her after her mom. Her mom's name was raining. And so my partner, a partner mine was out. I got him a job working with the group when I was with the group and stuff. So one of my best partners. And so, you know, he was out on the road with it. And like, we were sitting in my,

in either his room or my room and, like, he said, so, uh, the, uh, yes. I can tell us it's already going to be my favorite interview, man. Herbal essence. Herbal essence. Yes, my God. I'm saying, I feel like Howard Hew needs to be a permanent member of this debacle. Yes.

I was going to say, I think we're going to get Howard. Howard Heward fucking, fucking, How would you worry? He said, and I, and he said, so, you know, you name when the baby, Rainey had the baby. He said, yeah. So what are you going to name her? I took this time.

I was like, what are you going to name her? I said, Rainy, after mom, you know, said, what's the middle name going to be? He said, well, I was thinking about days. Does she know this story? Still know it if she sees this. interview. She thinks that I was drunk or something when I made it. No. The whole time you was talking, I was just thinking, I was like, I hope Howard remembers all the stories of how his kids were born.

Because not for nothing, especially the girls. My dad used to call me every year of my life up until he got like 80 and tell me on my birthday, like, how my conception and how I was born. And it's just, it's just a lovely thing here. Wait, he told you about the conception? Not the conception. I'm sorry, how I was born. The day I was born. Not the conception, sorry. But the day I was born. I'm sorry. But yeah, say those stories. You should tell them stories. People love this, but as they get older. I was going to say there was a 10-year-old reading Right on magazine that was really,

really hell of impressed with that name at the time. I was like, wow, that's the greatest name ever, rainy days. All right. I'm going to have Rainy Days 2.0. All right. So it's still in the cars. She hated it when she was in grade school, but when she got into junior high and then high school and then out of Canada all that time and doghood she loves her name you know

nice nice is she in the does she have musical talent does she I have no clue like what yeah she says things she came out of schools came out high school wanted to do you know wanted to get into the business and stuff and so like you know I gave her my advice and she you know got herself a little job started you know putting uh putting together her demos about three or four demos three or four songs and she had got her head shots together and then got herself a deal with this company called Notting Hill, you know. Notting Hill was in L.A. as well as in London, you know, in the UK. So they were working on an album together and then halfway through the album when she comes to me, she says, you know, Dad, I'm really not into this.

I said, well, what do you mean? Whoa. She said, I'm more interested in what I'm going to wear than the music. You know what I'm saying? So he was into the fashion. And fortunately, the people at Notting Hill were cool. And they had put a single out in the UK that did fairly well. But, you know, she wasn't, she wasn't into it.

So they let her go. And then she got a position with a Vera Wang company, you know. Yes, Vera Wayne. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Did that for a while. So she lived in London for a while?

She went to London. She didn't live there, but she spent a lot of time. Okay. I see. I see. Listen, and you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts. The world's biggest stage! And breathtaking triumph.

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I am Rapaport Podcast. Okay, I do want to know. Okay, first of all, before you get into your entry, do you know exactly what the situation was that caused Gerald Brown to leave Shalimar that was your vacancy? Because even with those first two records, I always felt, like I had, you know, the first two albums as a kid or whatever. I had the Uptown Festival 45 and whatnot.

And it's like, I never thought his voice blended in with that group. Well, even take that, I mean, take that to the bank. Of course, it was a classic song, no matter what. Yeah. But I never felt like his voice fit into it. He was like, he was like a grown adult and I always felt like Jody and Jeffrey represented like the kids.

Kids and stuff. While he was like a proper adult or whatever. But what was the situation that caused him to vacate the group? I don't, I don't know this. specific situation, exactly what happened. I think there was some stuff, some questions about management, maybe, or about whatever. Because, you know, Gerald had been in the business for a while with the Soul Train gang and coming from Cincinnati.

And that first Uptown Festival album, the first out, that wasn't Gerald. That was this cat named Gary Mumford. So they had, they had two lead singers before me, right? So it was Gary Mumford on Uptown Festival and then Gerald Brown. Uptown Festival was one of those things where, you know, back in the day with disco and stuff, that's why I was never really a big fan of disco because I always thought it was pretty fabricated music.

And, you know, I was more into the band and the real people that did it because you do, you know, they would put together a, you know, a song with studio musicians. and studio vocalists, throw it out there, see if it made some noise. If it made some noise, then they go and put a group together. And that's how Salamar basically, you know, form. So it was like Gary Mumford on the Uptown Festival.

And then he, I think he went back to the church too, if I'm not mistaken. And then Gerald Brown came in. They took him from, you know, because it was Diancahanealius and Dick Griffey. Dick Griffey, right. Right. So, you know, at first it was sold train records, you know what I mean?

And so they brought Gerald Brown in, and then they did take that to the bank. They were out in the middle of a promotional tour. I was working with this cat, Jeffrey Bowen at the time. Because I was with a group down that was formed people that was formed by the people in America. Jeffrey Bowen, yeah. Jeffrey Bowen produced a song for you by The Temptations, right? Yep, and Bunch of Common stuff. Did Don Bonnie Pointer was his lady.

He was his wife, right. Don Bonnie Pointer was his wife. And, wait, did he, didn't he produce, I think he co-produced with George Clinton, two songs on guitarist. Eddie Hazel. Eddie Hazel's record. We were, we were, well, we were, he had hired me because I, I was, this girl Tammy Gibson, who used to sing for Stevie and Wonderlove. Okay. She was looking, and she came looking for me because I was with a group that ended up, we ended up overseas for about a year and a half, this show group called Beverly Hills, right?

And the people at Mavericks Flat down in the Crenshaw district, John Daniels and Alonzo Daniels, his brother, they put together show groups and stuff. So this was one of the groups that they put together. We ended up touring overseas for about, you know, a little less than a year and a half or so. And I was making like 250, 300. What year is this around? This is like 77, 77, because I brought 78 in, 77. At the end of 77, I was in Helsinki, Finland, which was the first gig that we did. And then we went to Geneva, Switzerland.

And I read that because we brought 78, 1978 in Geneva, Switzerland. And then we went on to Benadorm, Spain, Santerpe, France. We were all over the place. I was making $250, $300 a week. You know what I'm saying? But I was having to fall. I was like 22, about 22 years old. Yeah, he was getting.

I'm pulling out my inflation calculator. And the business. Just to see. Sorry. Just to see. So when you're saying the show group, you're saying in terms of like you guys, because I think Heatwave was sort of in the same situation where they were for more in like army bases or clubs of the day.

Is that the same situation? No, we never did Army bases, but when I say a show group, I mean like a top 40 group. You know what I'm saying? We did everything from disco inferno to Mandy. You know what I'm doing? Those are still around today. Yeah, and it's like, you know, did, you know, afternoon delight, all that kind of stuff, you know. It was like, you know, it was my stuff.

Soul stuff. Exactly. We didn't do any original stuff. It was just, and it was like, you know. But wait, by the way, guys, 250 back in 19. 77 was 1,087 and 86 cents by 2021 sand today. That was good. That was cool, money.

I wish I would have felt that then. I came back after a year and a half with about $500. That was this. But so, you know, so like I came back and, and all the, at Mavericks Flat was a really interesting place where on the weekend it was a club. And on the weekdays, that's where we rehearse. We would rehearse a band. And any time we had a show that we wanted to try out on people at a live audience, we would play at Mavericks Friday and Saturday night.

And so it was like, you know, I mean, Mavericks was interesting in that you can look out in the audience at any time. Shaka Khan would be sitting out there or Lionel Richie when he was with the Commodores or Richard Pryor hung out there all the time. And it was just a great place. to like cut your teeth as far as like you know uh the way that you do your show the whole thing and uh and where is that located crinchall right crinch on stocker right on the corner crinchaw and stocker so at this point in crinchaw because i also know that wait is was total experience also a club on crinshaw as well totally right up the street as far as the black clubs are concerned you seen that maverick flats and total experience and like what were the other

night life options for you're right there black people to go to. Strawberry Hill was a club there. I don't know a whole bunch of clubs around there because I hung at Mavericks all the time. You know, it was like, I had a key to Mavericks at one time. So, you know, that was my hanging spot. You know, so there's other guys and dowels, I think,

was a club, but I think that was a little bit before I got there, you know, guys and downs. But I'm not really familiar with a whole bunch of the clubs over there. So you're saying that if you, if it's 1977, 78, 79, and you're a black professional, chances are like you're hanging in on Crenshaw Boulevard at a club. So we weren't really doing like West Hollywood back then or? No, it didn't do a lot of West Hollywood back then because that was like, I got to, I got out here at L.A. in 1976, you know.

Okay. And so I hooked up with the people at. Mavericks about two months after I got out here. And we and John Daniels told me what he, what he was, what he wanted to do. He had a, he had a bunch of show groups. And one of his main show groups was this group called The Love Machine. It was like seven, seven, fine, fine. Kathleen Bradley, who was the first black model on the Price is Right.

She was in. Oh, Kathleen, Miss Parker. Yeah, Ms. Parker. She's talking from Friday, yeah. She was in, that's where she... Shut up, Bill. Bill's who's in this parker, Miss Parker, Ms. Parker. She was banging.

And he's done. He's done over there. It's like, man. So, yeah, she was in the Love Machine and six other beautiful women. And they went all around the world. When I first went down there, the cat T. Tucker, that played, played bass for Revelation Funk. Like I said, by that time, they were broken up and T was playing for the Love Machine.

And I called T one day. I said, I got his number. I called him. I said, yo, man, I'm in town, blah, blah, blah. He said, man, come down to Mavericks Flat. I'm rehearsing today. You know, I'm playing with this group called Love Machine. So me and my cousin went down to Mavericks Flat and stuff.

And they were rehearsing at that time to do a showcase that night for Tom Jones because they were they Tom Jones wanted them to open up for him so you know that was how that whole thing came about and then we started putting a group and stuff together but I was working there went overseas came back from there we broke up the group Beverly Hills broke up after about a year the less than a year and a half over in England and it came back and I started kicking around LA and then that's when I hooked up with with Jeffrey Bowen you know to uh he was he was He was doing this album, this solo album on Eddie Hazel, you know. Please describe what Eddie Hazel was like.

Besides George Clinton, I really haven't gotten a straight story about Eddie Hazel. He was, he was an interesting cat in that you really couldn't get a good feel for Eddie because he was, he was high a lot of times, you know. He was like, you know, an amazing guitar player, Magidburn. that's Eddie, you know, right, Eddie Hazel. And,

but he was, he, he, I mean, I used to smoke weed, but he used to smoke weed, you know, I'm saying.

G-13. Like I said, I don't know what that means. You all know. You go back. Yes. But, but he was cool.

I mean, real cool, real cool brother, but, so you're saying that Eddie Hazel once potentially had a deal on Motown records that fell through,

through? I don't know if it fell through. Man. They were, they, you know, Eddie, Jeffrey was producing it. And then we were working because after I came, like I said, Tammy came and got me because she wanted me to do this. She was, she was contracting the backgrounds for those that they were doing. So I went in and did the session. It was me, Tammy, this girl, Kathy James. I forget I think that was her name. And we went in and did the session. And then after, after, after, after we got done with the tunes and stuff, Jeffrey Bowen came to me.

He said, you know, man, I love your vocals. I love it. This is going to be a self-contained situation. So, you know, I love for you to be a part of. It's going to be you, Tammy, and the girl that we were working with. And I say, cool, you know, that's great. He said, I can get you in. He said, we can start working on the contracts, you know,

but I can get you into the union tomorrow, right? Right. I say, cool. Okay, good. So next day, I joined. after, you know what I'm saying? And all just checks and we started. And it was like I wasn't contracted yet.

You know, so if you're an uncontracted artist, you have to get paid from the time you walk into the studio or the time you walk out of the studio. So Jeffrey would book the time for like 8 o'clock, you know, in the evening. He wouldn't show up for whatever reasons. I don't know until midnight. And then we would work till about, you know,

about four or five o'clock in the morning. So that's like eight, nine hours, you know, at about 130, 140, whatever the scale was at that time. If you were doing a solo or, you know, inflation calc. Inflation cal. It's a lot of money, Bill. It's a lot of money.

That's a lot of money right there. So that sounds like that's a lot of money. Yeah. So like, you know, but then after about working about a couple months, you know, started getting kind of flaky, you know, and I'm saying, kind of shaky as far as like the checks weren't, we weren't reflecting the time that we, you know, that we were in the studio.

And so then I called a meeting. I took my lady, I took my lady to work. She worked at, you know, like I said, for Don, down at the Soul Train Dance Studios up in West Hollywood. And I took her, dropped her off of work, told her I'm going to the Motown building and have a meeting, right? So I'm sitting in a meeting on the 15th floor. And I'm like, you know, you're all giving me the Motown running around,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. you know, getting all this stuff off my chest. And the phone rings, right? And this guy, Angelo Bond was his co-producer. Angelo answers the phone. And he looks at me and he says,

it's for you. I said, it's for me. I said, if it's my lady, tell her, I'll call her. I'll call her back, right? He said, well, not a lady. And it sounds like it's long distance. That was before cell phones

when you hear the crackling on the phone. Right, right. He said, you know, it's $9 a minute. He said, he said, it's not a lady. It's a guy and it sounds like it's long distance. So I take the phone and it's Jeffrey Daniel, right? They were in New York at the time in the middle of this promotional tour. Whatever it was that they got into an argument about, I never, he said, he told me, I forget

exactly what it was. I wasn't interested in and wide with this was happening. It's like, what are we getting to as far as like this phone call? And he said that, you know, that Gerald Brown, that Gerald said, hey, when y'all can see it my way, give me a call. And he jumps on the plane and leaves. Oh. They're in the middle of a promotional tour. You did?

And so, like, he says, I know, you know, because they, Mavericks Flat, all the Soul Train people used to come down to Maverick's Flat all the time. Okay. I first, I first met Jeffrey and Jody before Shalimar at Maverick's Flat, right? And say, so they used to come there and they used to show, they used to see. the show that I did with Beverly Hills there, right? All this three degrees of separation is crazy. You know what I'm saying? So they saw the show, Jeffrey, before Shalamara existed,

Jeffrey had told me, man, I love your vocals. I said, I love your dancing, man. You and Jody, I used to watch them before I even left Ohio on Soul Train. I see them dancing. Right. Wow, that's great. That's great. So he says, I know we, you know, I know that we formed Shalemar, blah, blah, blah,

We got to take that to the bank out there. We're in the middle of the promotional tour. We want to offer you an equal position in the group, you know, as lead singer. And I said, well, okay. And he told me all this stuff. And then he says, you're at the Motown building, right? I said, yeah. He said, where are you?

I'm up on the 15th floor. He said, well, Solar's offices are down on the ninth floor in the same building. And we talked to, and we already talked to Dick Griffin. and he's waiting, he's waiting for you to, you know, for you to get in touch with him. So, like, you know, so he talked a little while longer, and I get off the phone. And I tell Jeffrey Bowen and I tell Angela Bond what to do. Oh, no. And there's a Daniel says, man, Chalimar's just a fly-by-night disco group.

They'll never amount to anything. And then you don't want to get involved with solar. You've got the potential to be with Motown, you know, and then Jeffrey started talking some stuff. When things like that happen, I have a tendency to just kind of sit back. And ever since I was a kid, if I had to think, you know, I want to sit back and take in everything that they're saying. So I'm listening. And when they get done, I said, well, my car is parked on the street. I need to go put some money in the meter.

Oh, no. I went down to the ninth floor, got in, talked to Dick. This was on a Friday, right? And Dick reiterated what Jeffrey, the offer Jeffrey made. And I said, I told him, I said, no, I'm really interested. I said, but I got to give these people upstairs a chance to rectify themselves because even though I didn't have contracts, my word was still, you know, worth more. What is your word?

Contract, right? So I called them and told them, look, I'm going to be home. If you guys want to rectify this thing, let me know. call me right and so all night friday night nobody called saturday morning i called dick and he i went over to his house watched the videotape of the shallomar show and then i was sitting in this rocking chair right i remember i watched the show i'm sitting this rocking chair the show goes off and dick says well sing something you know jeffrey and joe say you're great singer sing something i said i said right here Acapella and they said, yeah, and I said to myself, I said, well, Lord, you know, me and you.

So I broke in the field of fire by Peebo Bryce. Acapella. Something that's told me, you know, and yeah. And got through the first verse, half the hook. And Dick says, okay, okay, okay, I'll be right back. He goes upstairs, comes back down. He has like, goes in one pocket. He has some cash.

He said, here's some cash, you know, leave with your old lady. pay some bills and he went in the other pocket and brought out an airline ticket. That was pre-9-11. I could ride on your ticket, you know. I could ride on you. Right on my ticket. I can write on. Yeah, you didn't have to have a specific name.

He said, here's an airline ticket. You got to be on a red eye out tonight. Meet the group in New Jersey tomorrow. They move from New York to New Jersey. He said, meet the group in New Jersey tomorrow. He said, and go over the lip sync and the choreography of take that to the bank. he said because Monday you got a TV show to do. And I'm like, you know, I'm like, you know, being from Ohio,

the thing about Ohio is that the prerequisites as far as being from Ohio, you got to be cool about everything. You know what I'm saying? So like, I'm like, okay, okay. You think you can handle it? Oh, sure, I can handle it. Inside, I'm like, I got a job. What I would ask, what was Dick Griffey like, man?

There's been like a lot of stories about it. Let me add on to that. Let me add on to that Fonte, Howard. We've asked at least seven people this question. Yes. And they kind of glide by the situation. Okay, I know the brother's not here right now. But can you give us a real, real, in quotations, Dick Griffey's situation?

Oh, he's. Dick was a very, should I say, complex care. in certain ways, but very direct in other ways. And as far as like, you know, he used a lot of under the thumb type of tactics to keep things, you know, intact as far as his. So, but that was his thing. That was how, that was where he came from. For instance. For instance.

All right. All right. Without, without you compromise in your position. I don't understand. Is it really scary? Were there any buildings with. can he's on them. That got utilized.

My office hours are from nine to five. Yeah. I don't think that happened with Dick, you know, with the five heartbeat situation, you know, but I've heard of certain situations with other characters who we won't, you know, going to right now also doing that whole thing. But I don't think Dick ever ever did that type of thing. But he was, he was, you know, he was a gangster type of character. gangster type of cat, you know, and, and, but he respected if you stood up for what you, you know, stood for, you know, 55 minutes is the first time you stuttered. Huh?

55 minutes we've been talking. It's the first time you said. Because, because, because you want to be, because I got to be careful. I get it. I get it. Yeah, because you want to be, because I, I have, I have much respect for it because Dick, thank God, you know, Dick was a vehicle that was chosen to my foot in the door you know what i'm saying and and as long as you you know once you get your foot in the door it's up to you to put to open up the door and get in there okay so like you know i appreciate the the opportunity that dick presented to me and and and respected him you know immensely and and missing dearly now but you know i mean we had our drag what knock down drag drag out fights man and and it was like you know when if i felt something if i felt

this was not the way that this should be. He really didn't like me going out and working with people like Quincy, working with people like other producers and stuff. Because then I can see, you know, how it was really supposed to be done. And how the real business looked like. The business was supposed to be done. And he didn't like for me to do that, but I was going to do that. When I worked with Stanley, when I work with George.

Yeah, George Duke, yeah. And all those, and like I said, Quincy. And, you know, so I could see how that whole thing was supposed to go down, you know, and as far as financially, everything is concerned. So it's kind of like you feel like it's kind of like a learning process, and he was the beginning of the learning process, because I was wondering when you got excited about getting a job and everything at that moment, you don't wonder, well, what do I have any say in the songs that we sing and, you know,

like all the business stuff that like and, in retrospect you may have, but at the same time. Didn't have it at that time. Yeah. Well, at first, at first, I didn't want to have any sales far as long as we're concerned, because my whole thing was like, I want to learn. I want to look at it. I'm not, I don't want to come here acting like I know what I'm doing because I had never

been in a recording, a real recording studio at all up to that point, you know. Like, you know, and Leon Silver's, you know, like, you know, it was like a learning process. I saw how he worked. I saw how his crew worked, his crew of writers, Will Shelby, Kevin Spencer. Kevin Spencer, yes, indeed. And I would sit back. A lot of times I was sitting back, the first song that I really participated on and participated in writing and felt comfortable enough to present it to them as far as

the writing was concerned was for the lover in you, you know. Wow. And so nice. Yeah, so like, you know, that was me and Dana, and Myers. And like, so, I mean, we had a thing where we were, we print, presented to the people to his, his cruel, his stable writers and stuff. And they would say, uh, no, veto, you know, or, or, so, you know, it was like, it was, it was a learning process for me. I didn't want to jump in there. Oh, I know, I want to write down. I want to, I want a lesson that a lot of the youth

here. So that's why I wanted you to tell us. So let me, let me ask then. So with, so you, so you first album with is big fun, correct? Big fun album, right? I got it. Okay,

when I was a kid was like, oh, the dolphin record. They were killer wells. They were killer wells. Okay. Those were killer wells.

I thought there was dolphins too. I thought they were dolphins. Not honest right. They are black. They're a killer well. Right. Actually, actually they were barrels that we were sitting on

and they superimposed a killer well. Barrels, okay. Okay. That was a classic moment. So with barrels, okay, with big fun. Yeah, so walk us through the process of one, like, by this point when you're doing

big fun, how long have you been in the group? What's your jelling situation? Now, complete disclosure, I'm probably the only human being on Earth that has not seen unsung I've heard it might have been a tense episode. I don't know. So I'm kind of asking you this, you know, from the total naivete of not knowing what the situation was. But what was, how long was it before after that New Jersey first gig with them until you started recording big fun? And what was the jelling situation like with you, Jeffrey and Jody?

Jody. It was, you know, because when we first, when I first got there, we were like thrown together, you know, when I first got to Jersey. And we were, you know, I was in, all day Sunday, I was in a, I forget it was either Josie's room or Jeffrey's room, I forget, but it was crammed into, you know, like learning the lip sync. I had studied the lip sync, you know, while I was flying across country and, and then learning the choreography because I'm used to singing. I'm not used to dance, and I'm a singer, right? So, you know, that's a choreography. And so then we got that together. And then we continued on from the rest of that promotional tour, which if I'm getting, I'm trying to get, I'm at the point now where I'm even trying to get the timelines together because I'm writing a book.

I want to write my book, you know, so I need to get these timelines together myself. So when I got, I think I got there in New Jersey. it had to been wintertime because I had to buy an overcoat because I didn't have an overcoat. So I went to this clothing store in New Jersey. I think it was called Heaven on Earth or something like that. And bought this overcoat, you know. So that was, so it had to have been like about maybe November, November, September, October, November, December time. And then we finished up that promotional tour.

at the Coppa Cabana, you know, in New York. And then as soon as we flew back to L.A., which was the beginning of 79, I believe, because it was 78, yeah, the beginning of 79, we started immediately recording the Big Fun album, went in and started putting that whole thing together. And it took us, you know, four, five, six months, or four or five months or so to do the whole album.

And then we put, then we put, so we went, so that takes us into towards the end of 79, you know, the middle, mid towards the end of 79, and then put second time around out there. And second time around at first was kind of creeping up the charts, you know what I'm saying? But it wasn't, it wasn't until we did a remix. That back then, that's when remixes were really,

real big, you know what I'm saying? 12 inches, yeah. And 12 inches and stuff. So I forget who did the remix. We did a remix on it, put it out there, then it like screamed up the charts. So like that was towards the end of 79 into 80. You know what I'm saying? So it was like from that time, then we had a hit record in 80. Wow.

Can you describe what working with Leon Silver's is like? And do you have any big Fred Lewis stories to go with it? No, I'm playing. I know that at one point, you know, because Leon is like a stickler for backgrounds and stuff like that. I mean, just like stickler for backgrounds. And like I remember going in there one time, and there was a part I was supposed to be doing that day.

And like, we started out. I could tell it was going to be one of those days. We're like, uh, uh, that's good. It sounds great. Let's do it again. And then he's like, you know, and after about 45 minutes or so I said, Lee, I said, man, I can't do this today. Let's start again tomorrow, man. Oh, he said he was just a task matcher, like hard.

I mean, I mean, phrasing, you know, and when you talk about Howard Hewitt sound, I would give a big portion of that, the kudos up. to Leon for helping me develop the Howard Hewitt Sound. You know, I had my sound, you know, going from the natural to the forest, you know, before I left out of Ohio. You know, when I was a kid, I developed that in my mom's bathroom with all the tile and everything, with the, you know, built-in reverb that you got in the bathroom. So I developed that natural going into the forest back then. But he helped me develop that other, like stings, like stickler as far as phrasing,

it's concerned. You know, looking at every nuance, all those ad-lives that you think are ad-lives on there, on those, there ain't no ad-lives. We thought that stuff out. You know what I'm saying? Wow. Really? Put it there. Put it here. Put it there. Yeah. Do you remember like a moment, a time when that, when that happened when you thought, all right, I don't know about this, but like, like, no, you got to do that and it worked crazy. Oh, yeah. I know it worked every time, But like those type of things were like, are you sure that's that's that's going to work in there? You know, yeah. Just do it.

And that boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it just fell right in the place. It's like, but do you have any memories of recording? Because like two of my favorite Shalimar songs of all time over and over. And let's find a time for love. Oh, you remember those sessions. Yeah. Oh, I remember over and over.

Like it was like yesterday because that was when I was only one in. the group basically you know Jeffrey and Jody had already split so like at that time I wanted to do I wanted to do my solo thing but Dick says well you know you still got two and a half three years left on this contract so you either got you're either going to do it you know go just sit around and ride it out go to court you know or move to England or wherever where Jeffrey and Jody moved to or else you can do another you know another album and so of course I hate court I don't like court. You know,

courts like, it's like, the court's like a nightmare in Vegas. You know what I'm saying? You're just going to, you don't know what's happening. So, so like,

you know, but we recorded that over and over at that time. Did the video and that whole thing. That was when in the video was like me and Mickey Free, you know, me, Mickey Leon in that video. And,

and let's time, let's find the time for love. Was that the song you said? Let's time. Yeah, let's it. Yeah, let's find the time for love. Yeah.

That's not on the look, is it? Is it? Yeah, that was I think that was on three for love. Let me, hold on me. Yeah, no, no, no, it wasn't. It was on. Is it on friends?

No, I think it was gone. Fonte, let me find out that you're a fan of Go for it. Yo, like, on the low. Like, why you bullshit? Go on. Like, I know you're a deep cut cat, but come on, dog. Hey, man. I rock that album, Doc.

Yo. God, here you go, man. It was finding time for love. That wasn't on goal for it, was it? Nah, it was, it wasn't friends. God, I mean, I had this album. That was a beautiful thing about finding time for love. It's just a beautiful song, man.

It really, yeah, it is. I love that record. But you remember recording it? Do you remember, like, recording that join or like that session? I don't, I don't really. really remember anything that stuck out in my mind about recording, except that it was just a, uh, da, da, dun da, d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-b-d-d-b-d-d-b-d-d-d-m-d-d-d-d-d-d. Damn it, now I'm looking for it. Yeah.

I'm not. What was it on? And the thing, and the thing that really, that really stood out to me, as far as far as that song was concerned also, was just the combination of me and Jody Wiley, man. It was on Big Fun. Big Fun. That's not it was big fun. That was the first time. Yeah, I think that was the first time we really realized the magic that the combination of our, of our voices really projected out there. It was, you know, the timbre of her voice and my voice together, even on the background situation, was like, amazing. That's a gorgeous song, man, and great performance by all the other people. All right.

I don't necessarily want you to throw him under the rug, but can you answer two questions for him? me because, you know, I just got to know. Because again, like, it's also my perception of Shalimar coming from a 10-year-old. But every time I turn around, like, Jeffrey Daniel had a guitar in his hand, but I don't recall him playing guitar. Was he always air guitaring? Well, he was air-gatarring sometimes, but he knows how to play. You know, he really stuck to it. And he really, he can play it now. You know what I'm saying? He really, he really, he can play it now. You know what I'm saying? knows how to play now. And that's him singing on Pop-Along Kid?

Yeah. That's him singing on Pop-A-Long kid, yeah. Okay, I get it. Okay. No, I just wanted to make sure I didn't know if that was him. That was you, if he was given much singing duties or not, okay. From one to impossible, how hard were they on the choreography front of things? Because you guys, you guys really had a together, you know, it's almost like I wish was five of you because you guys were doing shit that was like for a listeners out there. If you could demo, if you could demo, if you could Google a song called Shoe Shoe Shine by the Dynamic Superiors, in my opinion, is one of the greatest performances ever on Soul Train in which they literally act out every word that's saying.

Like, this is past Charlie Atkins. This is past Brooke Payne as far as. choreography is concerned. But yeah, I was saying that the choreography that you guys had, even if you say, like, I'm not a dancer, but somehow in my mind, I just always walked away with like, Shalimar really had great polished choreography. Like, how hard, how hard, and, like, how much time did you guys spend on those routines? Spending a lot of time on the routines. Jody Jody was really instrumental as far as like putting together a lot of routines. Jeffrey would throw his situation in there a lot.

And I was just, because one of the things that I was concerned about was the fact that I sing. And when you sing, it's like you've got to breathe and you're breathing if you're out of breath. You know what I'm saying? And so that's when I did the choreography and went through. the quote but I told them let's make be conscientious of the fact that I'm singing you know what I'm saying right you know you guys I'm saying I'm singing I got to hit those notes that I created on those albums and all that kind of stuff so you know so that's when levitating and yeah like and then and then good right you know what I'm saying so you know it was like then we started being I think we

started being conscientious of they started being conscientious of that and that's when the whole situation of like you know there's in choreography a lot of times less is more you know what i'm saying and the the human mind the human brain can only just take so much you know this so i would rather people walk away from a concert saying man you remember when they did this thing together boom boom boom boom They were together and then Howard broke off and he broke off. And then they came back and did it together. And so I would rather that than a whole bunch of stuff that they're not really going to remember anyway. And so Jeffrey and Jody were on it.

Jeffrey's whole backsliding thing that he had eventually, he's the one to talk Michael how to do that. And Michael named it the moonwalk. Jeffrey taught him how to do that. But at the, you know, during the show, we would play the song about a, what was it called? I forget the name, but it was the first part of writing the socket. It's called Right in the Socket. Yeah.

Yeah, and we, and it would be, and then the band would break down into this funky groove, and me and Jody would be on one side of stage rocking, and Jeffrey would be all the way on the other side of stage, and Jody and I would pull this imaginary rope, right? And pull it and boom like that, and Jeffrey would backslide all the way across the stage, man. First, all people on the,

on the floor, it's guaranteed. They're standing up because they think he's on like a conveyor belt. That's how it's cool. And so from that point on, we could do anything. We would do it. It was on. It was on. So do you have any knowledge of,

because I know that Jeffrey was also trying to get another group off the ground, the one that with Casper, Coley and Casper, like his other dancers, There was like, I think it was like a singing group, whatever. I assume that he was trying to bring them through the Solar Channel. Did anything ever happen to that project? I'm not sure. I remember Caspar and Coolly, though, definitely. Casper and Coley actually went over first, because we were going overseas

for a promotional thing for about six weeks. So that's when Michael wanted to learn the backslide. So first, Casper and Coley went over there to try and teach it to him. But for some reason, he couldn't grasp it from. them. So when we came back from the promotional tour, that's when Jeffrey went over and taught him how to do it. They taught it to. Okay. But I think the group was called, what was the name of the group? I forget that. I'm forgetting. Yeah, I'm drawing a blink right now. It's a, it was a dance group, basically. And okay. Yeah. And like, I don't know whether Jeffrey was trying to make it into a singing group

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I am Rapaport podcast. Okay, so at the time when second time around becomes a big ass hit, and it's definitely established that you're in a, you know, a well-established group that's not going to have to struggle, at least in our eyes, it's like, oh, you made it right out the box. How different does your life change? Like, what is it to be a young, successful blackmail with a hit group in Los Angeles, California, 1980? Goopies were crazy, you know, but wet-ass pussy.

Did Steve just say that? He did. And it made so much sense between me and Steve and Howard, and I'm afraid the rest of the world. I was there too. I just don't know if every funny. Bill was there too. I heard the I was there.

Leave it out of context. Okay. Leave it out of context. Just trust me, listeners. The conversation was had earlier, but go ahead. But in a sense, that was one of the changes because, you know, I had dealt with the whole groupie thing since I was like, you know, young, very young. Like, even in the gospel situation, there, you had your gospel groupies, you know, and when I

went through. Oh, yeah. That's what my grandma called. They was holy from the waist up. Oh, man. These people come to you and say, you know, the Lord told me to give this to you. Okay. You know.

So, but then, you know, and then I had, you know, when I went into the R&B situation back in, back in Ohio, we had our fans that followed us around and then going overseas with the group with Beverly Hills. You know, yeah. Man, I can. Yeah. Yeah, foreign situation. Yeah, you are. When I get with the group, I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh, man, I got this down.

This is like, I've been dealing with this for a long time. There ain't nothing like hit record groupies. Hit record group is the ones that like, you know, you come in the room all of a sudden. It's like, oh, how'd you get in here, you know? And so, you know, that after a couple years of that, that really made me look at that whole thing and look and see, see, you know, that's not something I really want to deal with as far as that's concerned, because it's not like they know me. They just know what they think about me. They knew me. They might not even like me. So like that, so I ended that whole thing. That was, that was a

change in my life. But, you know, as far as the responsibility, I think you started getting, at least I did anyway, started getting a sense of responsibility of what you're saying. because you know that people are really listening to you. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, and that's, with that comes responsibility. It's like, you know, I got a, like I said, I came from a whole house full of women, you know, like my mom, my four sisters, and me and my dad were the only testosterone, you know, walking around there for about three or four years until my younger brother came.

But, you know, but I always looked at that. And that always kind of shaped what I would allow myself to say in my music and what I do and what I and what I project as far as the music is concerned. So, you know, but I mean, it was, it was, because at the time, we were only two second time around was out there. I think it was like, I think I was about 23, 23 years of, you know. So. Tiring from group already. We were young. We were really, really young.

Jeffrey's only like a couple of months older than I am. And Jody's like, I forget, like about three, four years younger. But, you know, we were young, you know, when that whole thing went down. So it was a big adjustment and big adjustment. Is there any, I mean, not preparing you, but did it ever get to the point where, especially when you're young and impressionable, you have ideas of what starter was like, like, oh, there's a limousine and there's a bodyguard? But, I mean, was there just ever time when you just,

just couldn't do something simple, like just go to the 7-Eleven to get, you know, a stick of gum or something like, was it like that or was it just could you still have a personal life or was it like constantly being chased around and that sort of thing? Not being chased around. I think it was like, you know, here in the States, you had to realize you had to get a sense of where you could go and where. where you couldn't go. You dig? It's like, you know, there's places that even now I won't go because I won't be, it won't be, you know, like. You want a piece.

Yeah. You're eating, which I don't mind, you know, autographs and stuff. That's the part. You asked for it. You got it to Toyota. You know what I'm saying? So that's a part of the whole thing. But like, you know, the place that was really difficult to get around was,

was in the UK once when it when everything hit in the UK because the UK is so condensed you know what I'm saying I mean the right the whole island is what about about the biggest California but you got all kind of people in there and then and so once once we hit there it was like I mean it was hit hit Jeffrey went on top of the pops did his thing the next day it was like bam it was crazy and uh can you explain that situation um Because I've seen him do Night to Remember where he's just pop-locking by himself. And, you know, even I went to live there for a couple years and they still talk about like that being such a game-changing moment. I know that Jeffrey also hosted the British version of Soul Train, Soul Train, Man.

Soul Train 620 or whatever it was called. But what was the situation that both you and Jody didn't make that promote? tour and Jeffrey just decided to pop lock. And to give you guys a backstory, I believe that the legend is that you guys were supposed to perform on top of the pops, but something happened. So he decides, I'm just going to pop lock and he does the moonwalk on the show. And suddenly you guys become instant mega celebrities. That's why I always say, whatever we were, whatever we are over there in the UK. I mean, we still, Jeffrey and I and Carolyn Griffey still tour over there now.

And we've carved out a real niche out there, real good niche over there. Where we're doing festivals with 60, 70,000 people over there now. You know, so. And but what happened was, all right? It's going to be good. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. We have been on the road so much.

Also, Jody was, like, pregnant with her first child. their daughter, Lauren. And I was trying to piece together what little bit was left of my first marriage, you know, which didn't happen, you know, didn't work. But we have been on the road so much for so long. We said, and at the time, I can make you feel good. There's another song that I, me and we wrote together. And I Can Make You Feel Good came out over there.

I can make you feel good, blown up, you know, going up to charts and took so long for us to decide what we're going to do by time he got there, I can make you feel good, had fallen to number two. And top of the box was a number, was a program where they only did number one records on there. So he couldn't do, he couldn't do, I can make you feel good. But then somehow, I forget what happened. they arranged it so he could come back on there since he was all the way over there because it fell to number two on his way over there. You know? Man, that's cold blood.

I know. So like they said, you know, they said, well, you know, you know, we can get him on here. You can do, you know, do a dance thing to, I can make you feel good. But he ended up doing it to a night to remember, yes, remember, yeah. And I think that was going to be the next thing. next single anyway or something like that. So he went on there and top of the pops is the type of show. It came on every Thursday, you know?

And if you went on top of the pops and killed Friday, you saw your album sales go through the roof. That's how instantly impactful, you know, that show was to the UK. So, man, he went on there. They went crazy, man. They went crazy. It was like, you know, we couldn't walk down the street half the time. Then we finally went over there, you know.

I was going to say that in some weird way, you guys not going over there almost served the group better because of that very specific. Hey, guys, I don't know if you remember, but when Leon had did our show. show he had mentioned a shallomar video that it's escaping me right now but i i went i forget the title but i went to actually look it up on youtube and i have to say it's probably in my mind i thought the emergency video for the whispers was the weirdest video from the solar cannon with them arguing inside of a phone booth. But you guys have a very, it might have been for the song you just mentioned,

it was like you were in a garden or do you not remember? Oh, in a garden? Like you were in a flower shop or something like that. It was like, I don't want to be the last to know. Yo, okay, who conceptualized? Have you guys seen this video, y'all? No. I'm pulling about that.

Forget, forget keep on loving me. Forget all the weird video. that have come from so far records like oh they're dressed like the 1800s this tops everything oh my god this tops everything like I only I

only wish at a time machine to go back to Leon Silver's interview so we could talk about this video subor because I looked it up way after after we did the interview yeah what was who conceptualized that video is Joey and white face

what's going to do it's like like Zid and White man It's like gaysa meets I had one of them flop hats on or something like that. Yeah, it's like an antebellum, like what was going on in this video? I don't want to be the last to know if you're going to leave. Yeah, man.

It was like that was back in it. That was back. We did three videos in the same day. Man. This was the last one. y'all was tired. I don't know who came up with that concept. Man, wow.

Your hair looks great, though. I mean, but it's just like, what was it? And I'd remember, I think, when Jeffrey was the waiter or the bartender. The waiter or the boss. And he came out the closet. And I'm like, oh, that's not cool. Yeah, that video was weird. But this, this takes me click.

This is the case the cake. This white face. This is the one time I wish this show had a visual component. I'm looking at it now. This is the oddest thing ever. Yo, man. It's crazy. Like I said, but we did three videos.

I remember it was as night to remember. I don't want to be the last. And this tune called Work it out. Work it out. You know. Check out, work it out. Work it out. That's the bomb.

That's even crazy. That's even crazy. That's even crazy. It's even weirder. Who directed these videos? Bill Parker. Jesus Christ, it's weird. You're right.

I'm sorry. I'm like, looking at it right now. Work it out. Yes. We got balloons. Work it out. Yes. Oh, my God.

And then the balloons go back. But I mean, but really, though, I mean, those videos are weird, but I really, looking back at it, videos were really something that, I think it took a lot of like black artists a while to figure out. You know what it was? Because a lot of those like early age, I mean, you could tell like they didn't know what the fuck to do. Right.

You know what I'm saying? That's why AHA is still the best, was the first best video. I mean, you look at the don't look any further video. It's just like what in the hell, you know what I mean? Right, right. Oh. Don't look any further video from Dennis Edwards. And sight of Eric.

Yeah. But I will admit, like you guys, the whole. whole solar canon, all the groups, including the lakeside videos, and even their I'm coming. Like, I least like the fact that you guys were thinking forward as far as the visual component that most groups weren't even thinking of back then. Yeah. So it's almost like, and that probably explains, I'm going to get into, yeah, for the

life of me, I don't even know how you guys were successful in getting a dead giveaway on MTV at a time when MTV was very slow to play back black videos. But wait, I do have a question. I got to go to Charlene and Willis's theme. Please, why wasn't somewhere there's a love for B ever released as a single? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, there's an amazing song. The way that people respond to it, man, you would think it was single. You would think it was a single at some point because it's like, ah, they go crazy. That different strokes episode did y'all justice. Like, that's, you know, for those that don't know, you know,

when Janet Jackson first was on different strokes, like that was her and Will, and Ty Bridges's song on that show. I didn't know that. You didn't know that. You never knew that? I never really watched different strokes that much. Song placement, man. So again, I was a 10-year-old, so it's like, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you explain why me being aware of what you guys' records were as they came out? I do remember being very shocked and surprised when GoFurt was just like in the record bin, and I was like, well, wait, where's the single at? How come, like, I almost felt like it was just put out there just arbitrarily. Like, what was it was go for a bunch of throwaway songs or? It was, it was, there was, we were going, Solar was going from RCA distribution to electric distribution.

To complete, to complete their obligation to RCA, each group on the, on the Solar label, owed RCA another, another album. One more album, and then Solar could move on to Electra distribution. So it was like, it was, we called, we used to call it, it the throwaway album but on that album you had you had sweeter as the days go by you had you know uh this uh talk to me which was like a crazy crazy thing uh james and i did uh a song on there called you got me running right you know one of those urgency things you know and um and and and it but that's what it was we used to call it the throwaway album you know and and that was because we had to fulfill the obligation

to RCA distribution company and so that they can move on to the electric So at the time though And you know like throwaway albums are You know Frank Zappa was famous for it You know Prince did chaos and disorder like Throwaway albums there's nothing new about it But at the time are you feeling like well we do have a

Are you thinking about it in terms of legacy like Why don't I don't want to just put a stinker out there or something that doesn't have all this promotion or something. Because you guys are basically releasing it knowing that it's going to be dead in the water anyway. But did you feel any sort of way about that as a group? Like we don't want to waste a shot, especially when we have this much momentum? Nah, we really didn't think about that a lot because I guess we were depending on the guidance of the record company as far as that's concerned. You know, they said, okay, we're going to do this.

This is going to be cool, blah, blah, blah. And like I said, some sweeters the days go by, that was a, that was a pretty, you know, turned out to be a pretty, especially overseas, turned out to be a pretty popular song and stuff. So it wasn't, it wasn't like we put, it wasn't like, if you listen to the album, it wasn't like we put a stinker out there.

There was some stuff on, there was some stuff. Sorry about that. I didn't mean stinker, but just in terms of releasing it, knowing that you're just gonna go put all the energy in front of the Friends album, Yeah, yeah, from an album with the new distribution company. Now, I think we were, you know, again, we were so we were still at that point, we were still pretty young in the business.

And like, so we were, we were depending, you know, if Dick said, we're going to put away, you know, get a throwaway album. Leon said we're going to do a throwaway album. Okay, all right, cool. Let's do it. Let's get in there and work, you know. But I also noticed that this is the album that the three of you really got to contribute a lot of your personal songs to it. Right, right, especially Jeffrey.

Jeffrey did a lot of stuff on there. So in your mind, what's your favorite album of the Shalamar Canon? I think, like, I really dig three for love. I dig three for love because of the politics of it. And as far as, because Lee Young Jr. told me when I first got with the group, because up until that time, it was a lot of caricatures as far as album covers concerned. You know, the Uptown Festival album cover was a cartoon type of character, the disco gardens and, right. Disco garden and also, you know, even the big fun album, you know, on those.

With the dolphins, right, yeah. And stuff is still, you know, but Lee told me, man, you have to establish your faces as far as the group is concerned. When people, you have to establish it so that when people say Shalimar, they think of Howard, Jeffrey, and Joey. because they see it. And on the legal tip, you know, that was very cool. So that was real important to me as far as that album was concerned. Which album was For the Lover and You On? Was that on Three for Love?

That was on Three for Love, I believe. I believe, yeah, it's on Three for Love. Yes. And what you were talking about in the very beginning of this whole show was very important because when I first got with the group, it was like, you know, Salamore the disco group. You know what I'm saying? And like, like I said, I wasn't a big fan of disco. You know what I'm saying? So my thing was like, we need to establish this as a, as a, as a, as a, whatever you want to pop, R&B, whatever, not disco.

So when we did for the lover and you, for the lovering you was very instrumental in doing that, taking us from the disco group into, you know, when they started talking. Salamara, you know, after for the lover in you, it was like, yeah, the group, Salamar, the singing group, pop group, R&B group, but, you know, put the disco group out of the picture. What was the name? Where did the name come from? What was the meaning of the name, Salamar? This is, there's this cat named Simone Susan, who brought uptown festival to Dick and Diane Cornelius.

Uptown Festival was like a medley of Motown hits, you know. Okay. So like, you know, in the disco format. And so Simone Sousan was this cat, and there was a garden over in the Middle East or something like that called Shalimar Garden. It was a S-H-L-I-M-A-R, you know, Shalimar. Ah, okay. It was this, there was this, there was this botanical garden that this potentate or somebody, you know, put together for his lady, you know, and so like there was this beautiful garden. That's how they got disco garden out of it.

And then they changed the eye to the A and S-A-L-A-M-A-R. S-H-A-M-A-R. Yeah. Okay. What can you, what can you tell us both legally and respectfully? about Jody's situation and why she's not touring with the band currently. With us currently? Yeah, yeah. At the time, we got an offer, Jeffrey, like, I think it was about 20 years ago, 17, 20 years or so ago.

We got, well, Jeffrey got an offer to do five gigs over in Asia, over and throughout Japan or stuff. And so, you know, we called Jody. We said, you know, Jeff called me. I said, yeah, I'm down. I'm cool. It would be fun. And then we called Jody. And Jody said, well, I don't think I really want to revisit that part of my life, you know, which, you know, you can't say.

I mean, she, you know, everybody didn't have the same, you know, it's a situation. You can do, you know, three people, two people can experience the same exact thing and come away with two different experiences. Two different experiences. So you got three people who experience. the same exact thing and came away with three different experiences. So at that time, Jeffrey and I went and we did the shows by herself. We put the band together and we did the shows ourselves, you know.

And then in fact, we went on to do a bunch of stuff in the UK. We went to Africa a couple of times with that line with just me and Jeffrey. And then when we wanted to bring the female entity back into it, Carolyn Griffey, who is Dick Griffey's daughter. Daughter, right. And she was singing background for me on a lot of my solo stuff, you know. And so she had the history of the group. She had the passion of the group.

So we didn't even, we didn't even, and also she has an amazing voice. I love her. I love her. And we didn't even audition anybody else. We just offered the position. Yeah. Yeah. How was your, how was your relationship?

before Mr. Griffey when he passed. How was our relationship at that time right before he passed? Man, Dick. Yeah, yeah. We were at each other's thoughts about something. I forget what it was. I forget what it was.

And it was funny because, like, you know, he was just learning about texting and stuff at that time. Oh, shit. And he'd text something and accidentally sent it to me. I'm like, nigger. You know, and I just laugh, you know, and I forget what it was we were arguing about at that time. But I loved him. I loved it, you know.

And then we had a bittersweet thing. How old was he when he passed? He was 70s, I want to say. 70 something, yeah, 70 something, you know. And like, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was. said I never got a chance to see him right when before he passed. We had a couple meetings before he got, before he got sick. And, you know, but, and we were arguing about something then.

I forget what it was. Wow. Hey, I know I brought it up earlier, but I kind of want to revisit it. I know that you and James Ingram are singing on PYT. Are you at all involved on the original version of PYT? the slower before it turned into the version that's on thriller

there's another alternative slower smoother version of yeah yeah a slower version are you on that version at all or is it just the version that's on thriller? Just a version is on thriller I don't even know there was a slower version out

you know you know good and well yeah they left no stone unturned like they kept I mean were the background sample from the first from the original. No, no, no, no. It's completely different recording. Just the title. They shared a title. That's all. Like they turn into something

totally, totally different. But speaking of Griffey, again, you know, MTV was just a baby and of course they were world famous for really not focusing on that many black acts.

And yet I remember at the same time when they started slowly playing Billy Jean and Bee. it. You guys were one of the few groups that they slowly let in the door along with like Prince and Lionel Richie. Eddie Grant. How do you know how that happened? Like how was, was that the making of Dick Griffey or like? I don't know what the politics were as far as what the politics were as far as getting all that into into the playlist. But at the time, it was just,

It was just us and Michael. And, but, you know, you had that, you have that famous interview with David Bowie. David Bowie, yeah. And I think at that point, they started kind of re-looking at certain situations when a David Bowie comes up to you says, how can you call yourself a music channel and you're not playing black music? It's like, it's crazy, you know. So, so like, but I'm not sure about the politics.

It was just, you know, people, the promotion people kept pushing it, kept pushing it. But at the time, like I said, it was just us and Michael at the time that they were playing. Okay. So can I assume that the look was technically kind of sort of maybe your first solo record, but kind of in-group or name? Oh, really? Okay. It was the last, it was the last album that we did that Jeffrey and Jody and I did together, but they participated just like they, you know, just like, equally as far as like,

just like we used to do all the rest of the projects and stuff. There's a tune on there called You are the, you're the one for me. Man, check that tune out. If you get a chance, check that turn. Oh, I know, I know it well. I know it well. But I just wanted to know, like, the working process. Speaking of the look, I know, I know, and, you know, I'm a Philadelphia and so.

I feel like a bad Philadelphia because I'm going to ask you this question, but I know that you wrote the look with Stanley Clark. Now, personally, one of my all-time favorite How at You with songs, non-Shallamore-related, but really, if I'm honest with it, this is probably my all-time favorite song of yours, is Heaven Sent. Now, you know, as a jazz head, you know, this is a guy that's, you know, doesn't return to forever,

doesn't change the world of bass music. I feel really silly that this is also might be my favorite Stanley Clark song. Be as though he has such an intricate history with his bass, but this one particular song says, could you, what I really want to know is why didn't you say that for your own project? Yes, even though it made noise

on his record, I almost felt like, because when it came out, I felt like, oh, this is the, how are you a solo joint? And then my aunt couldn't find it. She was looking for forever. And then finally it's like, it's buried on, you know, the Stanley Clark record. Did you talk about that song? That song, it was one of the first times that I ventured,

one of my first ventures off from Solar. You know what I'm right? And so like I said before, Dick wasn't really a big fan of that. But, you know, it was like you got to, you can't just, you know, keep people sold up in certain situations. And so it was when Stanley, because Stanley and I met first, and then he introduced me to George. And when we met, we had a mutual friend that was his accountant, I think, and he did some work for me. And then he introduced me to Stanley.

Stan was a fan of, you know, the Salamar stuff. And I was definitely a fan of Stanley's because my first instrument that I learned out of play when I was like 12 years old was. bass. So, you know, I was the, the, Stanley was like the cat, right? So we just started working together. And there was another cat that wrote that song. I think you passed away. I can't remember. I wrote a lot. What was it? On heaven sent? Heaven sent, yeah. All right. Okay. I got to look it up. Yeah. I can't remember his name. There was some, I remember there was some stuff that was going on with him and Stanley. But, you know, we got, we, um, you know, we went in and started record, started messing around with it. And it was just, it was, it was just slated to go on his

album. It wasn't slated to go on my album. And that was before, I think, you know, the whole concept of putting a song, you could put it on this album, well, I'll do it. That album, right. I could put it on my album. You know what I'm saying? We, you weren't doing that then. Is this song, is it, is it still in your repertoire? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Love that. I was just going to ask what was the creative chemistry like Stanley and George working together. What were they like in the studio together?

Man, it was like, because I did a lot of the Clark Duke project. Yeah, Clark Duke project, yeah. And a lot of involved in a lot of that, especially the videos. I do these little crazy cameo appearances on the video. It didn't make any sense. All of a sudden, I'm there, you know what I'm saying? And it was amazing. I mean, George, just working with George, though,

George was just, I mean, if you didn't know, anybody that didn't, all the whole bottom part of George's house in the Hollywood, lower Hollywood Hills, basically off of Franklin, the whole bottom part of his house was his studio, everything. Okay. Room, studio, you know, everything, the lounge, everything was a studio. He had his wine cellar down there and stuff. And I mean, it was just, we would just go in there and it was a place to go in and just be creative and working with.

And then watching him and Stanley together was just a double situation, double dose of what, you know, George did. And it, and it was enhanced by Stanley's stuff. and Stanley do some stuff. George would enhance it with his thing. I mean, it was a major, major creative, total creative atmosphere in that. That's a beautiful, man. Wow.

Could you, what was the audition process like for Mickey Free and Delisa Davis once? Jeffrey and Jody left Shalimar? Well, for Mickey, there wasn't really an audition situation. And Mickey was working on a project, I think, with Leon. You know, and Mickey was like basically, you know, this prince-like bar player cat. And he was working out of studio masters. And so I would come there. I was working on something.

And then we see each other. I think with these studio masters, a Larby studio. I can't remember. But we crossed each other across path. I thought, hey, man, what's up? Hey, man, what's up? And then keep on going to go. going, right? And then we started talking and stuff. And Mickey is, Mickey, if he ever decided to put this guitar down and not do music anymore, he could be a stand-up comedian for real. That nigger had me cracking up the whole time. And so then that's when I talked to Leon, because like I said, they were working on something. And then I said, well, why don't I bring, you know, Mickey in, which changed the whole.

situation of the group, you know, because Mickey was more of this rock cat, and I was just looking to do something to pass the time for two and a half years, you know, so, you know, and we went into the whole, you know, we went into the whole rock thing. You know, and I always had my dressing room. When Jeffrey was in the group, it was me and Jeffrey had a dressing room, right? We did go together. Joseph would have her own dressing room. But it's just, you know, the camaraderie of it, you know, So Mickey and I had our dressing room together. Our theme song in the dressing room was Rebel Yell, which we call it. By Bill Idol.

Yeah. Bill Yale. We put the leather gloves on and the belt came, you know what I'm saying? And we're ready to go out there and deal, man. And so like it changed the whole thing. Now with Delisa, we Dick came up with this idea of involving a lot of the local, different local radio stations across the country and do this contest, the contest to find the girl for Shalama.

Wow. And it involved the local radio stations and all of them, they put together this thing. They had auditions. Don Lewis, Don Lewis audition in New York. That's when I first met Don Lewis. Wait, did she tell us this, y'all? I don't remember. I don't think so.

I don't think so. I was it all the episode. I missed that episode. Yeah. Dawn was our last pre-COVID interview. Oh, yeah. Now, Dawn, I remember Dawn. I remember Dawn coming out with these hot pans and these, what they call,

fishnet stockings, right? Right. For years, I called her fishnet, right? Because she didn't, she didn't win the audits in Delis. Because she won the New York audition. And then she was, then they flew her to L.A. And when she was L.A., one of the time she was in L.A., that's when she got to guess she connected with the different world people or, yeah, the different world people.

But for years, after I knew, you know, after I knew Dawn, for years, I could never really remember her name, but I call her fishnets, you know. So. Yes. You know, but that was the process, you know, Delisa was from. Nashville. So when we went to Nashville, did the, did the audition there. Oh, so this, this was nationwide. It was nationwide, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. We did New York, Nashville, all over the place. We were all over the place. By the way, did Mickey ever share any of that basketball, Charlie Murphy's story with you at all? The day after. He told you?

After. The day after it happened, man. That's why when people called me, when people called me after Dave Chappelle did it, at years. later when people called me and told me, man, you see that skit, the Charlie Murphy Hollywood stories, and on Davey Spell, they did a thing. They talked about Mickey going up and going up to Princess House. I said, man, Mickey called me the day after

they did that. And so we up a short, we up a short cast house man last night. And Eddie Murphy and Charlie Murphy, everybody came to play basketball. He said, Prince went out there in his heels and was Duncan. And he said, man, anybody wants some pancakes.

He called me the day after, a day after that went down. That's hilarious. Wait, can I get this, Fonte? Because I'm going to forget this. Also, on the look, you worked with the legendary David Hawke Wazinski, formerly of Rufus. Yes. Yeah, could you talk to, like that's a cat I definitely want to interview as well. Like, can you talk about the process of songwriting with him and working with him?

It was wild. Hark was wild. He, his studio was called, it was up in the hills off of, off the 101, off the, off the one-on-one, Laurel, wasn't Laurel Canyon, I can't remember. Okay. It was up in the hills. And the name of his studio was called Food in the Hill, you know what I'm saying? Oh, fool in the hill, okay.

Fool in the Hill Studios. So it was like me, him, Mickey, we had it. It was just the whole writing process. If we'd get serious, then all of a sudden, it would just go off the chain somewhere else. And we were just, you know, we were just up there. We had, we had, you know, interesting situations, visitors up there in and out and all. In quote, okay. Quote, unquote, I see what you're going.

All right. And so like, you know, but it was, but the creative situation of it, when we would be on track was amazing, was amazing. We got a lot of work done, a lot of creative looking at. We did one of the songs we did was called My Girl Loves. My Girl Loves Me. That's my shit. You know, yeah. Listen. And you're there.

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I am Rapaport Podcast. I know probably to you, like this was like, all right, I'm just going to do this bid and then get out here and do my son. solo join, but, you know, for a whatever, a past the time record, at least in your words, like I, the heartbreak record was actually kind of dope. And I do, I do want to know the story. Okay, so I know the history, Dean Pitchford, because I went to perform in arts high school. So Dean Pitchford, of course, you know, he's a, he's a fellow E-gotter, Bill. You should know this person.

He wrote, I mean, from Godspells of fame, he wrote like a lot of Broadway stuff. He won Mad Grammys and a Tony and an Emmy. I know that him and Bill Wolford wrote about to say footloose. Well, they wrote that too. They wrote Dancing in the Sheets. Sheets, Lae. The streets to a child in here. Excuse me, Mr. Hewitt, and I know I called you Howard the whole time.

But a young child who hears that song, you sang the first time you heard that somebody said it was dancing in the streets. I think they're talking about getting it on, and they talk about the sheets. Kids don't even hear that part. You just hear the- I was a kid and not heard that part. You know, I'm going to the streets with my coat. Nah, grab your coat when we're going home. That's what he said.

Yeah, I'm enlightened. As of today, I am enlightened. Yes, she thought it's dancing in the streets. But, wait, can I just ask, though? Yes, the song was a bona fide hit. But did anyone ever raise the question that it might be a tad bit derivative of 1999 at all? Well, you know, the thing, the way that whole thing came about was at the time, like I said, it was just me. I don't even think I had Mickey in the group at that time.

It was just me. And Dean Pitchford called and wanted me and Leon to come to the Paramount Studios and look at this movie that he had. And he had temporary music and, you know, just stuff. And then when it came to the part where he had written, you know, for dancing in his sheets, he said, this is where I want, you know, Salamar thing to be. And so, like, you know, we watch the movie. We talked, blah, blah, blah. And Leanne and I are walking back to the parking lot.

And I said, well, what do you think? You know, he said, wow, I got a whole lot on my plate. I don't think that's going to be a big movie. You know what I'm saying? It's like, and I got to. I got a whole lot on my plate. I don't really, I'm not, I'm not really going to have time to do it. He said, well, what do you think?

I said, well, I don't think it's going to be a big movie either, you know, but. Oh, God. What? I'm having a brain for it. I ain't going to throw Leon under the bus like that. It was me, too. I said, I don't think it's going to be a big movie either. So you saw a footloose and you were just like, man, whatever.

Yeah. Okay. You know, because it was, it was just, you know, this. this cat teaching white folks how to dance and all that kind of stuff. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, hey, you know, I don't think it's going to be that big of a movie, but I said, but being with the position that the group, which I was going to have to keep on, at that time, I knew Dick Riffey wasn't going to allow me to get out of my contract, so I had to keep on with the group. I said, but given the position that the group is

in at this time, I said, I think it would be a good. Even though I don't think it's going to be a I don't think it's a great movie They're gonna put a push behind it yeah it's a good look yeah it'll be a good look for motion So it would be you know why not do it I'll do it I'll put it you know do the do the song put it in there shallomar name lives forever you know what I'm saying so little did you know I know I had to go to solar to the the legal department in solar when somebody called me one morning And then the soundtrack had been out there. And it is sold because at that time,

soundtracks weren't really big. People really didn't look at soundtracks, you know? And that was like the first one of the first big soundtracks out there. But I had to go to Solar and say, because somebody called me that particular morning and said, you've been checking out the footloose soundtrack? And said, no, I was a, hey, man, they sold platinum already. I said, what? Are you serious?

And so I go to, I go to and talk to Virgil Roberts at the record company. I went down the record company. I said, man, Virgil, you've been checking the dancing, the footloose soundtrack? Virgil goes to say, yeah, you know, but how these things really don't sell a lot, you know. It's not, it's a sound. And I said, I said, dude, it's platinum. Somebody told me it's platinum. Yeah, there's no way, no way it's platinum.

And then that's that took off from there, man. It's crazy. But I was about to say, you guys double-dip because isn't the only Grammy for Shalimar, also for your participation on the Beverly Hills cop? Yeah, for Don't Get Stopped on Beverly Hills. So it was almost like 84 was the year of. Yeah, that was Hawk Wilmsky. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, double dip. That's, that's right. We didn't, I don't think we, no, we didn't win anything for, uh, well, that, well, the, the, the soundtrack won a Grammy. So I, I assume that someone gets that, uh, you know, that sort of thing. I was gonna, I was gonna ask you out, man, uh, what can you tell us about your marriage to near peoples?

I used to always watch the party machine when I was a kid. Jesus Christ, I forgot. Y'all were like the first, like, so I thought like, yeah, they were a little celebrity couple. Yeah, you're the original J&B. Yeah, all I got to say is, uh-oh. Oh, okay. Oh, never mind. No, no, no, no, no, no, not never mind.

Keep going. Oh, that's good story right there. What can you tell us? There was a cat. There was a cat, Jerome Gasper, who was A&R cat for Polygram, I think, at the time. He was a good friend of mine. Okay. And so, and maybe prefaced it also, I had a condo in Hancock Parker at the, at the,

that time. And I had this, in my bedroom, I had this big, you know, remember the rear projections, big screen TV. I had a big, rear projections, big screen TV at the bottom of my bed. And every morning, I wake up, you know, turn on the TV, flip through the channels, get to Channel 11 or 9 or whatever. And I see fame was on, you know, what I'm saying? And I'm not saying, man, this is this fine woman that comes on fame, you know, how to do you know? I never knew of the credit. I never waited for the credits or anything. I just wanted to look at her.

You know what I'm saying? And I keep it on fame on the channel where fame was for about, you know, 10, 15 minutes. If she didn't come on the screen, I'd start flipping through the channel. But on the screen, I'm sitting there, yeah. I go, fine, you know what I'm saying? So this cat Jerome Gashvachar called me. And he said, he talks, I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Howard Howard Howard Howard you know he said man we just we just signed the girl from fame you know to a contract or a pithogram I want you to do a few songs on there I want to do a couple two three songs on I said well which girl is this is near people's I said well which girl is is it I'm just you you weren't that same he said he said I sent you an overnight a compilation via a tape to you and I said okay cool next morning the FedEx comes they they they get the tape. I put the tape in my VHS machine and I said, ladies gentlemen, near people. And she comes walking out on stage. I push cars and I caught. I'm in. I'm in. I'm on my way. Whatever you want me to do. I'm there. You know, and

I thought Soul Train was first. I said I messed up that timeline in my kid head because I was like, oh, I thought Soul Train was first, but Soul Train was after the two of y'all, her host and Soul Train. She was never on Soul Train. She was never on Soul Train. She was on party machine. Party machine. Party machine. Thank you. Sorry.

Wrong show. But to our long, but to our younger Gen Z listeners, she's all, she's the hot mom on pretty little liars. So that's what everyone knows her as like, yes, the hot mom on pretty little. We, so. We worked on, we worked on the album and really got, you know, got to really close. So she's, she's a good lady. He's a good woman. We have our son.

We have Christopher. It's our son, you know, and it's amazing. We just had lunch about two weeks or so ago. She and I, Christopher, her other daughter and stuff. It's like, it's good. It's very cool. It's very cool. That's what's up, man.

She's going to hear your first response and be like, that's food. We just had lunch. Right. No, wait, I got to say, though, damn. Wait, because I know we got to end this episode eventually. time. However, I will, I got us, what is, okay, this is always what I always

wanted to know. When an artist does their signature, like, when they do the token gospel song on their record, i.e. Mono Ritchie, Jesus's love, that sort of thing.

What is, are you at a place in your life what is sort of like, because we didn't even get into the personal comes and goings of life in the turmoil and whatever. Like we're just on the creative and the things, but at that point,

the fact that same men became such a signature song for you. Like, where were you in your life that that song made its appearance? And the way that you delivered it, like we really believed it. So were you

at a transitional phase in your life where that song came right in time? Okay, so before I left the group, before I left Salamar, at the time, like two or three years, two or three years before, I left Salamar. I always had the situation I wanted to do a solo album. So I remember praying. Seriously, I prayed prayer. I said, Lord, when I'm by myself, when I'm solo, when I'm responsible for what I say, I said, I promise that I will honor you on every solo project that I do, you know.

And I have, say amen was the first, was on the I Commit to Love album, was the first solo album and then on and on. But when I finally rolled my contract out, I had Elektra, you know, if you know the term, the lecture had first rights or refusal on everything that came off of Solar, right? So I had to give them, I had to go through them before I could go anywhere else, you know, as far as my solo situation was concerned. So, you know, at the time, the lecture was like cold as ice. They didn't, they had, all they had over there

were the eagles and, and that whole thing. And so, like, I told my attorney, I said, okay, so they have to have first rights of refusal. In other words, they have to, you know, decline the deal that we bring to them, you know, you know what I'm saying? So I said, if that's the case, why don't we just make this deal so ridiculous?

that they're going to decline it. You did? So we put all kind of stuff in there. Bumps here, you know, the money was like unheard of for a first time solo hours, even though I had the success with Salamar, it was crazy. And we took it to him, Bob Krasnall, who was head of the company. Yeah, we knew Bob.

Bob says, he calls your bluff. He says, okay, what else you know? You know, so, so like, you know, okay, they accepted it. So it was a great deal monetarily. And the company was a great turnout to be a great company, but it was almost like I just describe solar, Electra like a 12-cylinder car, and you're only running on six cylinders.

You know what I'm saying? And like, because they did their job. They did their situation as far as the urban R&B situation is concerned. But the pop department over there never came to the party. So, you know, it was like it was the whole thing. But getting back to when I first went to the thing, I had the new record company and I had a new management company. So this was in 1985 when I first left the group.

And so I had a meeting with the new record company. I had a meet with A&R Cat and new record company, had a meeting and with the new management company that I had hired. And I went in, I was excited about doing my first solo project, took everybody's hand. And I sat down and I said, first of all, before we get started in this meeting, I said, I want to say,

I want to do a song to the Lord on this album. It was like, That's how you started the meeting? That's how I started the meeting. Okay. And so I want to do a song to the Lord on this album. And it's like, you can hear crickets in there. And this is 85.

I don't know when Jesus' love came out, but this. That was 80, but again, it was a rare move. Like, you actually opened the door. You normalized it. When you did it, then everyone started doing it. Or real, for real. But it was, but at the time, it was like, you know, I'm talking about putting, you know, Denise would do a gospel album.

Right. Then she'd go, she'd come back and do an R&B album. I was talking about combining putting that on there, you know what I'm saying? And so, like, you know, this one cat starts talking, well, you know, Howard, you know, we might get into, we want to take your career in the sex symbol direction. Might not be conducive to religious overtones and this and then, dan, this. And then my management's company, the cat from my management, he started talking because I hadn't even talked to him about this yet, right? And so I'm sitting again.

I sat back and I listened. I listened to what they were saying. And all the time in my head, I'm saying, okay, Lord, you know, what am I supposed to do here? You know what I'm saying? And so when they got done talking, I said, you know what? I hear you and I understand you and I can dig where you're coming from. I said, but maybe because in my mind too, man, is that these people got to promote my record. want to get anybody, you know. You want to give them something that they're enthusiastic about as well.

Yeah, sour about promoting the record and stuff. But I had to stand, you know, I had to stand for what I had promised. And when I said, I said, look, I said, I understand it. I hear where you're coming from. This 1985. I said, but let me just let me, let me go back and let me rephrase what I said. I said, let me say that I'm going to do a song. I ain't asking, motherfucker. I ain't asking. Like, I'm gonna do a song to the Lord on this album. My promise to him sits up here as far as like my priorities.

And if it's like, you know, and I'm gonna do a song to the Lord on this album. So I said, we can talk about everything else now. So we talked about everything else. And then, you know, we went away once Monty Seward, who's co-writer on that on that on say men when we put it when we put it together man it was like it was good but i will say that it was 1985 around that time or so and then i um i was dating as a girl in miami lit was her family was in miami so i remember we were going to spend thanksgiving there with her family she had moved to l a and we were going to spend thanksgiving

So I was in the studio, you know, the whole day, and she had already flown down there, and I was going to get on a red eye and meet her there, right? So I get on a plane, and Monty and I had come up with the track, like a real rough track for say, man. And I knew that's what I wanted to be, you know, the inspirational song. So I jump on a red eye going to Miami, and I get on the plane, I put my headphones on, the cassette in. It was on a cassette, you know. And so I was listening to about three or four songs that I still had to write melodies and lyrics to. And at the end of that cassette was a, was like a real rough track of say amen. I mean, one of the, and it didn't even go all the way

through. It just, you know, it was just a real rough track of say amen. And when it came on, all these lyrics started coming to me. And it's like, you know, it's time to say goodbye for now, you know we'll have our second time around second time around you know we'll have our second time around but before we go there's something i got to say everything's not what it seems there's a stronger force behind the scene he's in our lives every day he's right there when we call and him is with my and i'm writing and there's this lady sitting next to me and then when i got to the second i got to the second verse where it says talks about cattle on a thousand hills my mom used to always tell me when i was a kid She says, you're the king's kid.

You're the king's kid. You know, and the king, and he had, you know, you're God's child. This is what she was saying. And there's, and she would always tell him, there's golden cattle on a thousand hills. And that's yours. You know, that's yours because you're the king's kid. That's ours. You know, we're children of the God.

And so when I started right now, I said, you know, I know there's someone who don't believe. Sometimes it's very hard to see we live with those lives every day. Some things don't go away. But to be without is not his will. There's cattle on a thousand hills. Man, it hit me. I'm like, right, and it's cattle on a thousand hills. It hit me there.

Tears started coming down. And this lady sitting next to me like, what the hell is happening? He's like looking over here. Can I move my seat or something like that? By time in touch down at Miami and her name, Lyrically, the song was totally done. That's crazy because you know most people when they hear that song, no matter how many times they hear

that song, they feel the same way you felt when you wrote it. Like, it's one of those songs where it just catch you no matter where you are like, shit. It's an ultimate praise song. But how did they go to a single? They didn't even want the gospel song, and then it became a single. No, they were playing the album cut on Black Radio. Right, but they had to make so did Black Radio make it a single?

Yeah, they played it. I mean, you know, Donnie Simpson ended Yes, he did, Tommy. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. A whole bunch of black radio shows across the country, you know, ended it with it. And then I did it at one of Black Art, Black Radio exclusive, B.R.E. Remember I'm sitting there. Some Sid Miller's things. I closed up the whole convention with that song. Oh, Lord. I remember from like you did it also on the Robert.

Townsend partners and crime. Robert Townsend. That's right. Yeah, when Robert, when Robert got in touch with me, that's because I'm still my boy, we, we're, you know, we're really good friends still now. That's what's up, man. But like, when he approached me about it, he called and called and asked for a meeting. So I went over to where he was doing some stuff and went into the office and stuff.

And he says, man, you know, I'm getting ready to do my, my, uh, my, uh, partners is the crime, my, you know, HBO special. And he said, I, I would love for you to do, you know, say amen. I said, oh, man, that's what's up. Okay, that's cool. I love to do. I'll be honored. And then he says, I want to sing it with you. Uh-oh. I forgot about that font.

Like, and in my mind, you know, do you sing? I mean, I don't know if you're singing that. And I guess, because I don't, you know, my face kind of tells all kind of stuff when I'm thinking sometimes, unfortunately. But like, you know, he looked at me and he said, Hey, man, you know, this is my first special. This is my first HBO special.

And I couldn't find, I couldn't think of any other way to thank God, you know, for this first special. Wow. I was thinking this with you. And it came off so cool. Nah, it was dope. Yeah. And what was interesting about that was that at the time when the Partners in Crime special

aired, I was, they, my, my second solo album had already been released. I commit to love was in the bend. Oh, forever and never was out? Yeah, forever and never. I've already been released. But once partners in crime aired across the country, you know, record stores had to reorder I commit to love because everybody flooded in, you know, looking for say amen, you know. I was going to say, was this the, this is pre-Sylvia Roan.

This is like the Bob Merlin era of Elektra? Bernardab. Bob Merlin, I always called Bob Melon. Merlin, was he there at the time? Or is it, no, well, I know Brock Presno was ahead, but Merlin Bob wasn't there at the time, was he? Or did he come in like 88, 89? Okay. I don't remember him, but.

That I didn't know. So, I mean, but afterwards, did they, of course, acknowledge that, okay, you was on point with this? And, you know, because Bob and I had created a routine of like, whenever I would start, whenever I give ready to start an album, right? I would call it. If I was in New York, I'd go have a meeting with him. If I was here and he was in New York, we talk on the phone and just talk about the direction, talk about what I want to do, blah, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of every, after say, man, at the end of every conversation, Bob said, well, I know you're going to do another one of those God songs, right? And I'll say, yeah, Bob, I'm going to do another God song. It's going to be

Because, of course, after the success and the popularity of say, man, of course, it was everybody's idea then, you know? I'm saying, oh, wait, wait. They took credit for it. Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Wait, before we wrap, I got one, or unless you had something fine. I had, I just wanted to say, man, show me.

Yes, thank you. Fontaine. I don't know, I don't know if you know, like, how popular. That is a, me and my wife, we dance. We do, like, Chicago. That is a very popular stepping song, you know what I mean? But that's just, I just a gorgeous song, man, beautiful performance, everything. What was the inspiration for that and what was it like recording it?

John Nettlesby and Terry Coffey, you know, it was his writing partner, Terry Coffey. It was actually coffee. He spelled it C-O-F. But he wanted to co-fe. So that's cool. That's all good, you know. So they were. wrote this track. I forget how we got out. I forget how we connected. But they got this track to me, man. And like, and when when I heard this track, I just moved into this new crib and I didn't have any recording equipment up or anything. So I'm like, I got this track. And I was like, man, this track is amazing. It's an amazing, amazing track. And so I didn't have any recording equipment set up. So I had, but I had two boom boxes that record it. You did? So. So.

So I laid down in the middle of my floor and up in my bedroom and I had like probably a bottle of red wine. Okay. And I put one box on one side, one box on this. I put cassettes in and I started bouncing things, you know, from that. And I started coming up with, you know, different scenarios, different things. I wanted to think about things and romantic stuff that I wanted to do with my woman for my woman and all that. And like and then that hook came and that hook was just so Un-entiable man.

It was just it was you know it was like you know like you do some songs in it and and and it's like fighting you're pulling teeth to make this go here and make it fit and melody and you know praising wide man show me was like butter and it's just came down and it was like you got to let me know just I have to let this go. Help me. Darling, please show me. You know what I'm saying? It's like, and then the video was like crazy.

Yeah, of course it was. I remember that video. Yeah, of course it was, hello. You know what time it was. Guys hated me. Yeah, we did. Yeah, very much so. Very much so.

I just wanted to say, if I were you at your most, be a very religious experience in the way that you put these songs together and the way that the at least the ladies or some of the fellas receive them live like do you see that in the crowd do you see people responding in a way that's like like not most shows crazy it's crazy if i had a dollar for every time a cat came up to me man you help me out man i'd be i'd be a multi-millionaire at this time and like in like i and like i'm always say, you know, my thing is like, you know, some cats don't know what to say. You know what I'm saying?

So my thing is like, okay, I'll give you what to say. You can say, listen to Howard. Listen to how. Show me once, twice, three times. You know, and listen to Howard, listen. And I tell them, now I can get you to the bedroom. I can get you to the bedroom door. But you got to do.

The rest is up to you. I ain't going in the bedroom with you, right? I like to give your sisters all the credit. Yeah. And then when I do the shows, I mean, it's so beautiful because, you know, before BC, before COVID anyway, I would spend most of my time in the audience rather than on stage because I like to, I like to feel my audience. I like to have them participate. And it's a beautiful thing because, you know, a lot of cats, they're there with their woman and they're with a lady and they're pointing. Come sing to her.

Come sing to her. Yeah, because he's going to get some. Yeah, you're going to get some. Yeah, because she ain't going home with me, right? Love it. All right. Wait, I got to ask this one last question because, you know, I've asked one too many soldiering questions,

but I know that you took over the theme to the show in 87 with George Duke. What was the, well, like, what was the process? Like, basically, Don just asked you guys to do. it or like how how did that go down down asked george to do it and george asked me to do it you know what i'm saying so it wasn't it wasn't a collaborative situation as far as that's concerned but you know george said george you know george and i wrote a bunch of stuff you know through the years and and and bunch of themes songs of this and and and i mean we did a a song for he said um he said howie i want you come write these lyrics you know uh for this uh pop artist over in japan

right i forget the cat's name he said but you can't get deep this dude is not deep you can't get deep it's got to be shallow girl i love you you love me baby you on my mind i think about that all the all the time i wrote this thing waiting contemplating you know it's like it's like you know i can't remember the lyrics but but it's that's the perfect time but now with the soul train award thing Don George was taking over all the stuff as far as that's concerned. And then he asked me to come in and do some ad lives and stuff on the social. So, yeah. So what is it, I guess in closing, what is it that you've,

what is it that you've learned that made you a wiser human being, like just in your journey to this point that's brought you here to this day, that still has you here. You know, that's a deep question because, you know, you learn so much on your way in different scenarios and different places. I think one of the things, though, that's most important as an artist for me and as a man,

as with your integrity, as far as I was concerned, is to let your yes be yes and your no be yo. No, you know what I'm saying? Understand and do and say what you're going to do, what you're going to, you know, like I said in the earlier situation, my word was was worth more, even before I knew that my word was worth more than anything, any piece of paper I could sign. You know, your integrity will follow you through this business closer than anything else will. All you can do, you can do all that, you can have all the hit records you want, all the, you know,

the love people love. But if you are a flaky person and deal in. situations where your integrity is not intact, you know, intact, you know, it doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't mean because at the end of the day, it's going to be about who this man, what you as a man is about. What are you about? You know, you can do all the music and people say, what do you want your music, want people to remember about your music? I want to remember the integrity of my music that I stayed in a vein. I had people saying, you should put rap and you should put a rap thing, and you should do some talk about, you know, sex and all this kind of stuff.

No, that's not my lane. You know what I'm saying? My lane is like here and stay here and I have to, when I got in this business, I wanted to be, I wanted to achieve longevity. I didn't want to just come in this business, make a couple hit records, and then go laid out on the beach. You know what I'm saying? I wanted to work at it. I wanted to work, the work ethic, what it takes to keep and stay and keep your integrity in this business.

And as a man, you know, man, it's like, you know, where I've come as far as where I am now is that I can look in the mirror and say, I like that cat. It's cool. It's all right. It's cool. You know what I'm saying? And I've had my craziness and all that. But, hey, it's about, you know, praise God. That's all I can say. Praise God. That's all you can say, man. Well, thank you very much, Brother Hewitt. Thank you for doing our show. It's been a pleasure. It's been my pleasure. It's been my pleasure. It's been my pleasure. Sugar Steve, are you gearing up to say, Sick is knocked out over there a minute ago. No, that's just the weed talking. What are you guys say, Steve? No, I'm serious.

I'm on the scissor up tonight. So I was, you got a cold. I never went fully unconscious. Oh, that's right. You weren't. Wait, Steve, you're sick? Uh-oh. I told you, Steve, you're supposed to really tell people that he's supposed to.

You got to do disclaimers and stuff. You can't just put that out there. Just the cold. The good thing we're on Zoom. Right? No, that's it. But look, they worked together every day. I was just with Steve, like, three hours ago.

Right. I'm playing. I was going to say Howard, man, like some years ago, this has been over a decade ago. I actually met you. I ran to you. It was real quick. It was an LAX. And if I'm not mistaken, I think it was LAX. But you were just, just as you are now, man, super cool. And I just walked up. I was like, yo, man, I'm a big fan. And like, you were just kind of low key. So I didn't want to blow your spot up. You know what I mean? Because I was like, I don't want to make people notice. And then it's like 30 more people coming. So I just, well, I was like, yo, I'm a fan brother. He was like, oh, thank you, man.

Like super cool. And I started to tweet. I was like, yo, I just met how are you? Then I thought I was like, I don't know what he doing out here. So let me not. I don't want to blow the spot up. Whatever. But I just I was like going there and sneaking, you know. Right, right. But he was super cool. And I just, I never forgot that man. And just when you were a class act,

then you still are. And I just thank you for all the music and for all your contributions, man, for real. Yes, thank you for the music. I always say, man, we're all in this thing together. Ain't none of us getting out of this thing alive, you know what I'm saying? So we might as well, might as well do this together and be as, as cordial and respectful and, you know, as possible. So unfortunately, some of my peers, you know, use their celebrity as an excuse to be rude to people. But, you know, it's like, especially in this business, it's like, we're not athletes.

you know, sometimes athletes, they want people to hate them because they'll come to the stadium to hate them. But in this business, if somebody hates you, they ain't going to buy your records anymore. That part. Customer service, sir. True. Exactly. Well, we thank you for doing our show on behalf of Cizirp, Steve,

and unpaid bill putting the kids to bed right now, Fon Ticcolo and Laia. This is Questlove. Once again, The Immortal. Howard Hewitt on Questleaf Supreme and we will see you next Go around. Thank you. Yo, what's up? This is Fonte.

Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. All right. Peace. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio,

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