The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Jean Carne

Episode Date: September 6, 2026

As part of 2023's Jazz Appreciation Month, the incomparable Jean Carne joined Questlove Supreme. She reflected on her Atlanta upbringing and growing up around figures like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., as well as creating Spiritual Jazz in the early 1970s with her former husband, Doug Carn. Jean also shared stories from working with Earth, Wind & Fire, Phyllis Hyman, and Norman Connors—and recalls providing valuable vocal guidance to a teenage Michael Jackson.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B.

I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast?

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unfiltered on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Self-care September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask, why am I like this? I'm Jemisbeg, host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions without us even realizing it aren't driven by what we truly want but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

your podcasts. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author Patra Mathers and her husband Michael mailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know they had died by suicide. Dear honies, this is goodbye. By the time you get this letter, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland. Why did they do it?

And what did it do to the people they left behind? Listen to death of an artist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or what wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Hey, what's up y'all? This is Questo, and you're getting another classic episode of QLS. So back in 2023, we spoke with the legendary Gene Karn. Gene is not only one of the greatest voices in Philadelphia. She's also been an incredible mentor to some of the many voices that we've loved throughout

the years. And she talks about her journey, including her time in the spiritual jazz space, running circles with Earthwood and Fire and so much more. Jean is really kind and gracious and an awesome talent, and she'd never let any of that go to our head. Get it? I love this convo, and I hope you do too. This is Gene Karn on Questlove Supreme Classic.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove. This is Team Supreme. Lai, how are you? How is like it? doing, hmm. You know something? What?

I want to know how many rooms you have in your house. Are you in like a 19-room mansion? Stop saying that. This is my house. Just the last time we spoke, I was somewhere else. Would you have more artwork than any human I know? Yeah, you've met my parents. So, yes, I do.

I got, shoot, I'm surprised I've got a picture of our guest on my wall somewhere. Yeah. I see. Your dad gave me one. And Bethesda. Of yourself. One of your aunt, Deanna, and your dad, and Melbourne Lindsay. Ooh.

Oh, mystery voice. Okay. Yeah, mystery voice. Who was that mystery voice? Hey, Steve, how are you, bro? You know, if you delete something off an iTunes playlist, all you got to do is hit Apple X, and it all comes back. You know what Apple X?

You know, Command X? I mean, help the brother out. Anyway. Oh, delete. I leave really one. day in 14 years. Steve, yes. Somehow a playlist gets to leave.

And the history of the tonight show, Sugar Steve has been a constant presence almost every day. And the one day he leaves, things don't fall apart. I kept things together. So yes. Oh, that was so cute. Things don't fall apart.

What's up everybody? How y'all doing? Hey, me, what's up, Fonte? It was a good album title as well. Fonteigaloo. What's up, brother? What's going on, bro? What's going on, Miss Jean?

It's very nice to meet you. Lovely meeting. You. Yeah, my aunt, she was a big fan of your records, and I would always go to her house and like play your stuff. And I just always remember just your album covers. You just always look really classy, really pretty. And just always just a really classy singer.

So it's really an honor to sit with you today. I appreciate it. Oh, it's my pleasure. And I appreciate your aunt educating you. Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest, Today is an extraordinary singer and artists, especially for those who grew up around the Philadelphia International Sound.

I'm one of those people. I went to school right next door to Philadelphia International Records on Broad Street, way, way, way back in the day. Basically, our guest today, you know, I was introduced to our, via my father's illustrious record collection, a lot of jazz in there. and of course, you know, the black jazz label. And I will say that all the albums of our guest today and her former husband, Doug Karn, definitely played a major role in my personal growing up. Basically, just some of the best, what I call spiritual jazz. I mean, there's so many titles for it.

Some people say fusion, spiritual jazz. I don't know what you call it, but there's also a point in the 70s when our guest, yesterday became part of the incredible, stable of artists that contributed to the Sound of Philadelphia helmed by Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff with such legendary songs as, you know, free love and don't let it go to your head and my love don't come easy. And then, of course, you know, the immortal, close and then close, not to mention my song was the flame of love. Like, there's so much to talk about. But, you know, April, his jazz appreciation. Month and basically our guest today, she makes jazz, she makes R&B, she makes disco, she does it all,

and she's worked with all the legends. All the legends work with her. Kenny Gamble, Leon Huff, Jerry Butler, Eddie Lavert, Phyllis Hyman, Earl Garner, Billy Paul, Dexter Wanzel, The Temptations, Grover, Washington, Jr., Rick James, Dirt. George, do just everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. So overdue our guest, the incomparable Gene Carr into Questlove Supreme. Thank you very much. Yes.

Thank you for coming. How are you? I'm wonderful. How's everybody? Doing well. Doing well. We're great. Massive fans of yours.

And, you know, I thank you for doing this. You know, with a lot of our guest of late, just how the music industry is built, mostly celebrating, you know, a certain type of mainstream artist and really not giving light or shine to artists. of, I mean, I don't want to sound like the old grumpy music lover, but, you know, a lot of artists that have substance or something extra to give, you really don't read that much. And I don't recall ever like reading in-depth interviews with you at all, but, you know, I'm so familiar with your work, but, you know, you don't get to see your artists in some of these mainstream publications that do music.

So I thank you for finally granting us just the honor of getting to interview you. So I'm going to ask a lot of questions. Number one, Ms. Corrin, could you tell me your first musical memory? My first musical memory. Yeah. Perhaps, oh, I guess in church, Greater Mount Calvary Baptist Church, maybe singing solo in front of the adult choir. I must have been four then

because I remember I think the song must have been yeah because I think Mahalia Jackson had done it one of these mornings one of these mornings I'm going home to live a guy and I was just a little kid

but I think that might have been my first public memory And I did a lot of stuff at, I remember a lot of stuff at home that I would do when somebody would visit us. My mother said, I would give them a concert. He said, I'd put on my ballet slippers and I'd stand in a pleia position with my hands like this. And I'd give them a concert if my folks asked me to. So that was just a typical occurrence because you hear that a lot. You hear about like Cecil Franklin waking up, Aretha Franklin at 3 in the morning, like entertain the guests, like sing something.

them for them. So your parents were like that a lot? Yeah, yeah. And I didn't mind. So, yeah, they were cool like that. What city were you born in? I was born in Columbus, Georgia. I was raised in Atlanta. Okay. It's weird. Like a lot of artists that represent Philly International, in my mind, they're always from Philadelphia, even though they just record for a Philadelphia label. So, you know, it's kind of a Yeah, I've always been a part-time Philadelphia. Well, for 50 years now. So.

You live there currently right now? You still live there? Half the time here and half the rest in Atlanta. Okay. Okay. So you never lost touch with your home roots or any of those things. Oh, no, no. So having been raised in the church, especially with down south, how does, like, what is your

relationship with secular music? I know that for there's a lot of generation, generational blacks that grew up in households in which like secular music is somewhat taboo or not allowed in the household. Was your household sort of that way or? You know, I've learned that that's the case with a lot of singers. But thank goodness it wasn't the case at my house because my dad loved music, you know, big band, New Orleans, jazz. you know, preservation jazz, R&B. So I was never pigeonholed where music was concerned. I started collecting records, you know, with the little record player in the little box

with the little snap on there. Right. I started collecting records at, I guess, five-ish. And they never, they never limited the, you know, the records I could buy. What was some of the records you were buying at that time? Oh, gosh. Well, my dad had a record store on Auburn Avenue. It was with a cab company and a moving company and employment agency.

All in one? Yeah, in one building. Okay. And I, yeah, it was right down the street from Big Bethel, Baptist Church, and it was two blocks down from Ebeneza, Baptist Church. And so I got, you know, I got to sell records too because my brother and I would come and, you know, and work for my dad. Sometimes I was dispatcher, you know, for the cab company, and then sometimes I saw records. And it, you know, it was just a whole plethora of activity

that we got to do. But I don't know. I think I think selling records was the most fun for me, If somebody comes in and asks for a record that we didn't have, I had to write down the artist. And my dad would pick it up at the, there were one stops where the record stores would, you know, they got the, the, the press records from, I think then they had a pressing plant in Canton, Georgia. and that's how we, you know, that was the chain of command for doing records. I think that was the most fun, the most fun growing up. And it was down the street from the Royal Peacock. It was like two doors down from the Royal Peacock. So when artists would come to perform the peacock,

I would slip out and go see their sound checks. Because the owner of the peacock was, you know, a friend of my. dad's. In fact, I remember talking to Ruth Brown and telling her that I saw her do a sound check because her son sang, he was, he was a guitar player a few years ago on one of the nighttime shows. And he had this amazing voice because he did a demo that I eventually recorded. And so Ruth Brown and I got to talk because he put her on the phone. And I told her, you know, I remember you, you know, when Mama, he treats your daughter Maine was, you know, it was a big song for her.

And she loved it. She absolutely loved that because I was a little kid. Wow. Okay. I'm wondering, aren't I? No, no, no, no. No. I was thinking of an older.

That's what this is for. Literally what our show is about. And I'm glad you mentioned for the longest. I couldn't figure out the proper title. So whenever people asked me about my record collection, I never knew the proper title of those dealers were called one-stops. But oftentimes, like, when people ask,

like, how do you collect so many records? I think they think that I go out and actually purchase, like, individual, like, 200,000 records where now, you know, a lot of those owners of those one-stop, either their widow widows or you know or their family don't know what to do with them so usually there's like 30 or 40,000 pieces line around and then maybe a guy like me will purchase it if it seems interesting enough and that sort of thing so if you can get to them before the

British come because they come oh everyone yeah come to America every year to you know get the the great records you know yeah they're Japanese dealers British people, like, every place but the United States really treasures. Like, you know, I mean, there's some people in the United States, but for the most part. But that's also interesting. You know how we are with our treasures sometimes. Yeah, I know. We're a disposable country.

So, okay, so that makes a lot of sense to me because normally when our guests come on the show, the common denominator is that a lot of guests on the show are DJs, and that's how at least the producers that we've had on the show. So the fact that you've worked in the record store explains a lot of your, you know, of your illustrious range as far as like the world of jazz, the world of soul, the world of blues, like all the music that you sing. Does it also mean that your dad was a man?

Because like record store owners were the man in the streets, right? Like they had a lot of respect and access and whatnot. Yeah, well, the street that my dad's business was, on Auburn Avenue was the seat for that part of town of black business. In fact, okay, Gladys Knight's sponsor, Mr. Alexander, T.M. Alexander, was his, his realty company, he and Mr. Calloway's realty company was right down the three doors down from, you know, from my dad's business. And I remember, you know, we knew from the inside that TM was Gladys Knight's sponsor. And I knew of her.

And then I got to see her on Ted Max's original amateur hour. Yeah. Yeah, I remember the first time we got a request for their record, because I had to write it down. You know, it was every beat of my heart. and on the on the on the B side was darling which was only the Pips. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah and darling,

darling was just the Pips and on the other side was Gladys Knight in the Pips. So yeah, yeah. But I didn't know that was part of the hierarchy that, you know, record company owners were the man. Because there were businesses all the way down the street On the Auburn Avenue How long did he keep that business up? Was that a majority of your life?

I remember when I was 12 That was when I ordered Darling. I must have been 12 then And as then up to To teenagehood. I performed at Big Bethel Baptist Church, which is, like I said, two blocks down from Wheat Street Baptist Church and one block down from Ebeneza Baptist Church, which was Dr. King's church.

Did you ever get to see him in person? To see who. Dr. King. Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, my brother, Dr. King, my dad had a cab stand, you know, at Big Bethel. Baptist Church, and that's where you pay for slots for your cabs to sit so that after church, after choir rehearsal, all those places, all those events, people can come out of the church and cabs waiting. They're like they do with the airport. But Dr. King could park anywhere.

And my brother, my brother used to wait for him to park when he would park at Big Bethel. And he would walk him down two blocks to Ebeneza because he was, you know, he was, now he was the man. And I remember my brother was so thrilled because this was before, a couple of weeks before the March on Washington. Okay. And my brother, I mean, he was literally shaking when he told us about the fact that Dr. King had told him where to meet them to be on the bus to go to the March on Washington. So, yeah, to answer your question. Wow. You got to see him.

That's incredible. Oh, yeah. Yes, yes. After he passed away, I did numerous Mrs. King, we called him. call on me to do to do numerous activities, singing, you know, on an ecumenical Sunday when they would, you know, honor him and to sing, you know, at the church, et cetera. Yeah. And she invited me to the second march on Washington. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Your vocal style, like you have a very, very rich, rich, rich tenor. Yes, you can sing highest of the highs and the lowest of the lows. Who was your inspiration as far as like your singing style? Who did you gravitate towards? Oh, it was different periods of my life. I was influenced by various and sundry singers and horn players and keyboard players.

I remember seeing Aretha. She was traveling with her father, Reverend C.L. Franklin. And they were at the city auditorium, which belongs to Georgia State now. And she sang a song called In a Land Where Will Never Grow Old. And by then I was playing piano for church choirs. So I put that in my in my repertoire and always remembered her for that song and I've sung it at funerals from like I said from the time I was an early teenager until I guess a couple of years ago I sang it at a funeral as well. So you were just the go-to person? I guess but Atlanta was so full of wonderful singers.

Whoa. Yeah, it's just one among so many extremely talented for. Were you at all somewhat hobnobbing or crossing paths with any other future legends that we might have known of at the time period? Well, let's see. But you never think of it that way. Right. Or who started out? That's what I was just thinking. Like when you were in at, Who were the singers in Atlanta? Well, there were lots of blue singers. Okay, the Tams, as we stroll along together.

The Times. Oh. Oh, that's the Times. But Atlanta has my uncle. What? What? Billy Jackson. I'm here.

Billy Jackson, who produced that song. That's one of my uncles. Last date I did with where Billy Paul performed. It was in London. The Times were on there. Oh, okay. But I think the Tams were an Atlanta group, but I gave them the wrong song. The Times of Philadelphia.

Okay, the Times of Philadelphia. And what kind of who do you think I am? Yeah, yeah. That's them. Yeah. Okay. But for you, though, like, when did you, was it a thing where you just out the singing or like what what how old were you when you've made the decision that this was going to be

your profession this was going to be your your calling you know I guess I never really made that kind of decision because I do I did sing my mother said before before I could remember I remember vaguely some of the little concerts I did for folks that would visit us you know and stuff. And I remember being in the church choir and singing solo before the church choir. But I never made a decision. It was, I guess it was a state of complete. Even in college, right? Like, even in college, you were, you were singing. It was made, the decision was made for me because I got scholarships, you know, music scholarships and academic scholarship. The school that I chose, Morris Brown, I got.

a scholarship for academics and I got one of vocal scholarship, a music scholarship. So I was going to be doing that for the rest of my life, whether I knew it or not. I never made a decision. I think it was just God. I hear another thing that we have in common that you and I would have been former Juilliard students, but we had a different calling. So what was your decision to not go to Juilliard? I fell in love with Doug Carn, and we eloped to Hollywood and got married, and that's when we... How old you guys when y'all did that? 20.

Hoof. Young, babies. Well, no, we were late teens, but we started the family. You know, I was 20. Okay. Wow. So you had that kind of fate as well? Yeah, I was, at least my dad planned on me going to either Juilliard or Curtis.

He wanted me to be in classical music because he thought that was, you know, a respectable art form. Yeah, because I sang classically, you know, all the major arias and stuff, you know, the Messiah. and seven last words. And so it was understood that I would probably teach music in a college. What is this Russian thing? I'm sorry. I know that's in there too. I did not know this about you.

Oh, yeah. That started early on when you were younger, too, the Russian singing? We were on in high school, we were in a special experimental program of program of study in high school. And our foreign language was Russian. So I took Russian all during high school. Then when I went to Morris Brown, that was the first year. They had a Russian course.

So I did three years in high school and then two years at Morris Brown. And you speak proficiently. me too. I used to. Same. You do? Amir, you speak Russian proficiently? In the first grade. The only thing I remember now is Cuss Russia-Ryat. Okay, okay. What did she say, Amir? What she say? Oh, dude, that was

45 years ago. The type of school I went to, we learned four or five languages. We had to know. Like, from first to fourth grade, I was fluent in French. Russian, Spanish, Latin, English, and ebonics. Oh, that's hot. Yeah. That's a good answer. Yes, it is hot.

Yes. Whoa, that's so cool. I'm just fascinating. I'm like, most people take Spanish and French their whole life. They're still not proficient. Y'all take it for three, four, five years, and it's like, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, well, I got a little proficiency in some languages because when, when I perform in, you know, in France or. in Spain or elsewhere, I would get, I had Berlitz books and cassettes.

And I would learn to, you know, to talk to the audience, introduce songs through my books and my cassette tapes. So that, in fact, my second husband thought I was fluent in Spanish and Russian and French And he's, in fact, he's told people I was fluent in those other languages, but I could just, you know, I could order food. I could introduce my songs. I could ask for directions because I didn't want to be anywhere where I was that compromise. So I always learned proficient, you know, just travel, travel French or travel Spanish. So you were always prepared.

I tried to be, yeah. Okay. In your high school years or, you know, did you have any sort of dalliances at all with like pop music or just modern soul music at all? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I loved R&B. In fact, I just found out yesterday from Laia that Le Andrews was your father? That's my dad, yeah. That's amazing.

Yeah, that's my dad. That's my dad. Actually, here's a minor fun fact. We're jumping way into the timeline. But, you know, he basically ushered me into show business because by 12, I became his band leader. But I'll say that my very first professional gig non-nepotism, you. Gene Kahn?

Wow. So you had a musical director named Donald Dumpson. Donald was a sort of a prodigy. Yeah. Because he could, yeah, because we do places like Carnegie Hall and Avery Fisher Hall, I could throw in an aria because Donald was proficient at, you know, he knew all the arias. In fact, I remember when Pabarajai. came to Philadelphia.

Donald was the pianist that he asked for. Wow. Yeah. Donald Thompson was, still is the man. Mr. Dumpson, absolutely. I was going to say, and so I went to the high school creative and performing arts.

Now, the thing is, when I thought about it this morning, that is highly, that's a highly unusual request. Like, I'm trying to figure out. I mean, I get, I get miffed when my band asks of me to, like, let an established artist spit a hot 16 or 24 over a song.

You know what I mean? Like, blah, blah, blah's in the audience. Let him get on the microphone. And yet, all I remember was that Mr. Dumpson was. was going to have three of his choir students. And me, and I think at the time, it was supposed to be me and Christian McBride, but I think Christian couldn't make it,

so only I could drum. And we were going to be like special guests. We were, you did a, I think we had to play free by Denise Williams. Wow. And we backed you up. And I was thinking like, How that must have been an unusual request because I'm trying to figure out like how did he how did he even make that happen?

Like, yo, okay, uh, Ms. Korn, I got, you know, students at my high school. Da-da-da-da-da. We're doing this gig. Can they come up and sing a song with you? Like, you didn't have to say yes and yet you did. I always welcome anybody on my mic. See, I feel bad because even established rappers. I won't let them want to stay.

But she's a natural born educator, too. That's personal, then. That's personal. I get it. I get it. Soucher. But Donald did the same thing with boys to men. Mm-hmm.

Actually, at the time, Mark Nelson was one of the three. Tamika Patton, who at the time, like, Tamika Patton was, you know, she's the, not what, still, amazing singer, gospel singer. I believe that at the time she just signed to Manhattan records when it was on Capitol. And then Mark Nelson, who was still emboised him in at the time, was the second singer. And I believe Verdeen Brown, who's like gospel legend singer extraordinaire. Like she was the third singer. But I remember you had a van. You picked us up from school.

we've been rehearsing free all day. Why is she picking you up from school? Why is Jean Carpick? Do you know whose car that was? That van? Whose van was it? It was red, wasn't it? It was, I believe it was a red.

Yes, it was a red van. Yes. That was Deanna Williams car. Wow. That's crazy. Now, didn't I hear Deanna say that you used to be her assistant? or her

Yeah, I was at I am. He entered at I am. Yeah, absolutely. That's where we met Ajie,

we met it I am. That's where I met him. Yeah, I am. Oh, that's wonderful. I want to thank you for making that

the most normal way of you telling that story because. Yeah, I did. I just left it there. I left it there. Yeah, thank you.

Oh, that's darling. It was a beautiful. It was a beautiful. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. But,

no, I want to thank you for that. like I've only I can say you know you were my first gig Phyllis Hyman was my second and I think I forget what my last gig was before I got a record deal

but you were definitely very encouraging very nurturing it was easy Oh Phil is hard on us though Phyllis was hard on this You are not you though Not you though

I'm serious This was not fuzzy. I'll be honest with you. You know, at that time, I think back when I was following my dad's path for me, you know, okay, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to Juilliard. Like, in his mind, he wanted me to be somewhere in between like the next Bernard Purdy, like the in-demand session drummer. Pretty, pretty, pretty. Yeah, and basically, in his mind, like, you know, if I get a job with an orchestra,

like if you're good, then you can easily, you know, you could make six figures a year. You know, you can work your way up to $150,000 a year. Like, and that to him was like, and now I'm washing lettuce. Right. I was like, talk. I'm trying to make that a night. Like, not a year. Yeah.

Yeah. So, first of all, was your work with your former husband, Doug, was that your first foray into, like, the professional singing world? Or were you recording before that, or? That was my second foray, if you will. because, okay, after Doug and I, when we eloped, we ended up in Hollywood in the same building, well, complex. It was an apartment hotel complex as Earth went and fire. They had come from Chicago.

They made that sojourn west. And we all lived in the same apartment hotel complex. And everything surrounded the pool. it was hotel or it was apartment. You could stay for a day. You could stay for a year. You had made service. And the residence manager, the guy at the front desk, had been on gun smoke.

So most of the folks he let in there were entertainers. Right. Okay. Yes. So I met everybody from Reverend Ike to, In fact, I subbed for his piano organist. He came to Atlanta. I was a teenager then.

And I subbed for his organist pianist when he came to Atlanta. You know, they had those tent things. Yeah. Those revival, tent revivals. Can you explain to our listeners who Reverend Ike was? Because right about now, there's like, Yo, straight up, straight up. Okay, so there are, right now, the only connection to Reverend Ike that most New Yorkers have is his former church is still way up in the heights, like right before the Bronx.

And so whenever a venue like Radio City Music Hall is out of commission, then you're going to have to go to what was formerly known as Reverend Ike's church, which is like this long. large sprawling building that can hold about maybe seven to eight thousand people. So it was kind of weird. Like there was a point where Radio City Music Hall was shut down for like two months. So like in order to see like Adele or Bonnie Vare, like you would have to go to the Bronx or to the heights to go see them at Reverend Ike's former church. And people, you know, some of those photos are still up. So I would just listen to comments of them trying to figure out like, wait, are we in a black church? Like what?

Right. Why are we seeing like a rock show there? But can you explain who Reverend Ike was to those that don't know? Well, he was an evangelist. And his, his philosophy was prosperity, a prosperity philosophy. And he traveled all over the country doing his, his crusades, if you will, usually in a big, you know, in a big covered. tent style or sometimes they did them in large auditoriums and i you know everybody knew his name because he was just very flamboyant in fact he lived at our for a good part of a week in our complex and so everybody

got to see him with you know he would come out with his guards you know and you have to walk the length of the pool to get to the front to the front office to go outside he was a star he was an oddity if you will because he you know he had full length mean coats and stuff and and bodyguards and stuff was he a pimp though i mean i picture i picture daddy rich rich richard prized yeah from car wash yeah that's in my mind on a on a mega church level yeah a real question ameer was that a real question that you? Was he a pimp? Was that a real question? Well, I meant, because when I see photos of Reverend Ike, like his hair was laid back.

Yeah, yeah. You know, he was. He had a fried, died, and laid two sides, you know. And he was very flamboyant. You were saying that your work with Doug was your second for Ray. What was your first as far as recording? Okay. Doug and I were, our whole philosophy was to put lyrics to a lot of our favorite jazz classics.

Vocalese. Yeah, yeah, because I knew all the melodies. I knew the intros. I knew the heads of the songs. And, you know, I sang with the horns. These were our records, you know, at home. So we put lyrics. So those classics, acknowledgement of love supreme.

Which he studied the solos as well? Oh, yeah, I did the solos. Note for note for note. Wayne shorter, who just passed away, Infanized, was the title tune of our first album. Wow. Horace Filber, Peace. We put lyrics to peace.

In fact, Horace put lyrics to peace. And Doug took it before we, moved to New York, Doug took our version, went to New York to show Horace, you know, what we had done with it because he liked to get permission. Andy Bay did the lyrics on Horace Silver's version of piece. I was going to ask you, when you do that, do you have, because I've heard like, like Eddie Jefferson might have a version of a particular song, and then like John Hendricks might have this version of a particular song.

So. The other thing. Ross, yeah. Right. So is, like, once lyrics get applied to a song, are those the definitive lyrics, or is there just a world, is there a rule in jazz that a vocalese artist can add their interpretations of what they think that song should be, lyrically at least? Well, I don't know what the rule is, but I know on the credits.

Doug's name was added as, you know, as writer. So I don't know what the rules are, but he wanted to give the Lee Morgan. He was going to, we put lyrics to search for the new land. Right, okay. This is this album with this beautiful Afro with you and Doug and Jeannie. Is this the... You know, we took that picture. Oh, no, not the one with Jeannie, but there.

It was a promo picture. I don't think it was an album cover, a promo picture. We took in a Japanese garden, and it was in Philly. I'd love to know where that is. Oh, in Fairmont Park. Maybe it was in Fairmont Park at the Japanese house. They have a whole thing. Maybe.

Doug is ready to fly to New York. Lee Morgan was performing at Slugs, the small jazz club, in the village that had peanut shells on the floor. It was famous for that. Right. And that was the week that Lee Morgan's wife, his wife, came into the club and blew him away. Yep.

Yes. We don't mean jazz. Oh, no. You got to watch that documentary. Please also, because of my daddy in it. Yes. Yes. Oh, cool.

Yeah, I don't know if you noticed that. Yep, he's in it. He has one of the only people who took a documentary. a photo of Helen. Wait, your dad's in that? My dad's in a documentary. He has his photo and he is commentating in it because when Helen went to jail, she called him.

Wow. Because the whole story about Helen Morgan is she didn't stay in jail for too long, even though she killed a man in front of a bunch of people. She sure had witnesses. Yes, she did. Yes, she did. Oh, wow. Because I think Leon Thomas was singing on that gig.

You know, creator has a master plan. Yes, man. Right. That's her. Yeah. because he did that with Pharaoh. He would do the yodel thing. He would do the yodeling thing.

Yeah. And, you know, he said he learned that yodeling from listening to recordings of Pygmy, African pygmy rituals. What? Really? Yeah, that's what Leon told me. I've never heard us get credited for yodeling. I've never heard black people get credited for yodeling.

But the yodeling that Leon. Banjo, yodeling? It wasn't in the mountains in West Virginia yodeling. It was this yodeling where at times it sounded like he was singing two notes, like Lela Hathaway can do it. Yeah, yeah. So his was not your typical. West Virginia yodling under no circumstances. Yeah, it was almost, it was mystical.

There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct. and save. Get a quote at fellar direct.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the survivor files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live. live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possible. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us.

Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you got your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win?

If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing to receive. It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with the last. lot of black men. Roland Martin Unfiltered.

I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. 12 seats. Those are moving south. So you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the South now.

And download Roland Martin Unfiltered on the IHart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. 30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust your friends and neighbors? Who will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other. And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough.

We reached for a feeling that exists in this city. but we're not stopping, are we? I'm Ben Nathafaf. And for my new series on Revisionist History, I took a deep dive into Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York City in the 1990s. And what it all has to do with the politics of resentment

that dominate America today. Listen to Revisionist History, the Staten Island Problem, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So at the time that you, you moved to Hollywood, you know, what are your impressions? You mentioned Earth, Wind and Fire.

I assume that this is the time that they also were working on Sweet Sweet Beck's. First album. Oh, I'll tell you. After Sweet Sweet Beck or when they signed the Columbia. This was before Sweet Back, because their first album, they won Warner Brothers. Right. For the first two albums, The Need of Love and Earth, Wind and Fire. Right.

And one day I was rehearsing lyrics that Doug and I had put to infanize to one of the tunes on maybe it was, I don't remember which song. But Maurice knocked on the door. We lived upstairs and everybody had a patio. And, you know, you never close, you know, close your sliding glass doors. And so Maurice introduced himself because this dad never recorded either. He introduced himself. He said, I heard the voice of an angel and I followed it up the stairs and then he introduced himself, you know, to me. And he came back after Doug got home.

I told him, you got to meet, you know, meet my husband. And it was that meeting that made Maurice invite. invite both me and Doug to record on the first two albums at Sunset Sound. That was the first studio I've ever recorded in because that was the only one I knew about. Doug had done an album on Savoy when he was a teenager, an organ album on Savoy Records when he was a teenager, but I'd never recorded before. Except there was, okay, there was an album that Morris Brown did of our choir. It's called, oh, clap your hands. And I would love to have a copy. You know, it's a 33. And it was called, oh, clap your hands. I, anybody out there has, you know, has a copy or just, just make that already on it.

I got you. Oh, thank you. That would, that would complete my life. I think, you know, if I could get a copy. I'm coming to you, bro. Gene Brown can find anything. Yes. Okay, but that's why Doug and I ended up recording Infanized in Cali, you know, in Hollywood at Sunset Sounds, because that was the studio at the time. Yes. That's where Maurice did those two albums. Did you guys own the black jazz label or? I've read that that Doug was president of black jazz records. Gene Russell.

Okay. A musician himself started that label. And Doug was approached by Gene to, for us to come and sign with them. Yes, he was the head of Black Jazz Records. And Black Jazz Records was a division of Ovation Records. Dick Shory out of Chicago was the head of the parent company. company, ovation records. And Black Jazz was a, you know, a custom label. So Doug never, never owned it. And I ended up not signing with them because Russell offered both of us a contract.

But, but Doug thought, well, let's see how he treats him. Because the, like the first album, I think on subsequent pressings, they put my name on. it but it was just Doug Corrin infinites. Right. And subsequent pressings, they, featuring the voice of Jean-Corn. Yeah, and Doug said, well, let's see how he treats me. And then, you know, if this first record, you know, works, okay, then, you know, then I would sign. But we, you know, we broke up and got divorced and stuff. there. So, but we did, we did three albums and then Doug did a compilation like after,

after I left the group when I went with, because I went with Norman Connors, performance-wise, and I produced the vocals on all of his, all of his, his albums. Yes, you did. That's how I got to work with and vocal coach Phyllis, because Phyllis used so many of my musicians It was so cool. You know, it was, she didn't even have to ask after a while. You know, my horn players, she just loved, love my musicians. And I got to work with her vocally.

She said, Amir, you'll appreciate this. She said that she had no lower register. What? Until she heard Infinii. She said that let her know she had to develop. And she did it on her own. She developed this lower register on her own. Yeah, she said, because there's a line in Infinized,

and always keep them in your heart. All I will teach you to try, et cetera, et cetera. And she said, that line from Infanized was her inspiration and her incentive to develop a lower register. And she really, she did a great job because I worked with, you know, with her on all of the albums that Norman Connish produced on her. And the ones that she sang on, the songs that she sang on on Norman's albums. Okay. Yeah. You know, when I, when we had those records, I was five, six years old.

So naturally, I thought Norman Connors was the singer, not knowing like Michael Henderson and all those people. Everybody did. Everybody did. However, I got to ask you now, were you there for the So Much Love Sessions? I think I know which song you're talking about. So, all right, so there's, so one thing you're going to know about me is while people are into the hits, I'm a guy that's into the filler. Yeah, I'm an album cut filler.

And so so much love is basically, it's like buried at the end of Side 2 when You Are My Starship, but it's basically him doing a drum solo but he's also singing and kind of quasi yodeling.

It wasn't my dad's favorite song, but you know, I was a drummer back then, so I used to always play it. My dad was like, it was to the point it was like, Amir, no much love. Like no more that song, I can't take it no more. Yeah. So you got to, You researched this.

We did a cover of my love. You make me feel brand new. You made me feel brand new? Yes. Yeah. Oh, what's her name? Eleanor Mills. She was Stephanie's sister-in-law.

Oh. Fabulous singer. Fabulous singer. She did the, she was, you know, slated to do the vocals on the song. Norman insisted on singing that first line, that first little section until the only, I guess that's a bridge. Yeah. Maybe it's a bridge. The second part. Russell's part. Right. Exactly, where Russell comes in. And you got to listen to that. And you'll, now, your dad didn't want you to listen to so much love, right? For you, yeah, because your dad was saying that wasn't up to par for him, right?

Right, exactly. Your dad, well, of course, your dad was visionary. So if you find that tune, Norman's cover of that tune, he sings the first. I thought he was just joking. Because it was like, I'm going to, you know, who are we going to? to get to sing, you know, that's pitchy. First line. Pitchie is being kind.

Okay. Okay, it was comparable, and I love Quincy, because first thing he told me when Stevie introduced me to Quincy. Right. Quincy said, we were recording down the street from each other. Stevie came to see me in the studio, and we walked down the street, and Quincy was recording. This was in Burbank, maybe. Okay. It was in

Cali. And the first thing Quincy said to me was, our birthdays are a day apart. And I said, oh, you, so you're there by the Ids of March, because mine is March 15. And this was the 14th. Why, thank you,

thank you. Laia insisted that I keep celebrating for the whole month. Absolutely. And I'm doing just that. Yes, man. It should be a year, but you know. Hey, why not? Why not?

Yeah. Yeah. Quincy did a section on a song that he produced on somebody. And he and Norman were comparable to each other delivering a vocal. Wow. You've got to find, if you make me feel brand. Oh, I will look for it. I will so look for it.

You know what? It's just hitting me. Now that you mentioned your relationship to Maurice, was the Earthwind and Fire connection, the reason why it just hit me. The first week I spent in when I moved to London, there's a DJ named Jals Peterson. He played me. One of my favorite votes. He's responsible for us getting a record deal.

The Roots getting a record deal. you guys do a cover Mighty Mighty, I think on the Higher Ground album, but a really hip jazz version of it. Yeah. Mm. Mm.

That was the album that it had some of stuff that was in the can and Doug did all of that by himself after I left, you know, the group. And he found a ringer, singer her name's Joyce Green. that was her doing the newer songs on the at Adams Apple.

Okay. Yeah. Oh, okay. But that's you on Revelation, correct? Oh, definitely. Like I said, some of the songs, he took off of the previous albums. I get it.

Previous three albums, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, time is running out. It was one of my all-time favorite songs. I love this song. Oh, yeah. I just really wish we could play music on this podcast. Man.

I know. I'm like trying to keep up. Like I'm hitting the app. I'm hitting mute and listening. Oh, shout off to everybody is listening. You know, just hit pause when you need to. Yeah, exactly. Get these records.

Yeah, sorry. Next, we're going to have to do playlist specifically for all the songs. All the songs you mentioned. So at the time and considering you a serious jazz singer or a serious singer, I'm left under the impression that like serious jazz musicians try to make it happen in New York and New York sort of looks at LA as sort of like a joke when it comes to serious jazz musicianship. I mean, Crusaders aside or whatever, but I know that the East coast has a very snobby, and you know, it's that way with hip hop as well. Like we're more

intellectual, more, you know, strategic with our work. But I mean, for you, getting to Hollywood, did you feel like, all right, I can make this work? Like, what were your goals? Was your goals to just be like the next Sarah Vaughn or were you like, no, I want to be on the top of the charts or what was your personal goals singing? I just like to be challenged. I just like to, you know, to sing horn lines and duel with a piano and stuff. So I never, I never had a path or anything Because on the earthwind and fire stuff, I did the high stuff because that was before Philip and before Jessica Cleaves. And you know, Patty and I decided, I guess it was one day at dinner, we were saying, we're going to produce Jessica Cleaves because she had the most beautiful voice on the planet. And so Patty and said, yeah, we're going to produce Jessica Cleaves.

And the whole dream just went down the drain because I understand she was married to or partners with a drug dealer. And she, you know, she inspired, expired behind that. But she was the first high singer for Earth, went and fire because Jim Brown, you know, the football guy. managed Earthwind and fire. Yeah. Oh, wow. And he managed Friends of Distinction. So he took Jessica out of Friends of Distinction and put her in Earthwind and Fire. Stones like Keep Your Head to the Sky and stuff.

That was right up Marisa's alley, you know, the spirituality. In fact, he showed me what all the symbols were. on all their literature, album covers, on the sleeves, everywhere. And there must have been maybe a dozen of them. He said, well, everybody knows, you know, knows the interpretation of these, but there were four. He said, now these four, just you and I know. And he said, and we'll talk about these in Nirvana. When I get there, we're going to have a big discussion.

Wow. That's amazing. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. but these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro. and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us.

Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind. or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always, say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing to receive.

It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. 12 seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030,

you better be hitting the ground going hard in the south now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. 30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust your friends and neighbors? Or will you trust the people five miles overseas? Please. This is a story about neighbors turning on each other.

And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough. We reached for a feeling that exists in this city. But we're not stopping, are we? I'm Ben Natt of Halfrey. And for my new series on Revisionous History, I took a deep dive into Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York City in the 1990s. And what it all has to do with the politics. of resentment that dominate America today.

Listen to revisionist history, the Staten Island Problem, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can you tell me about the transition to you becoming your own artist or you're not working with Doug anymore and you're on your own?

Can you talk about the process that led you to start your solo career? Oh, okay. Well, after the... the Revelation album, we moved to New York because we were getting offers for performances there. So we moved to New York. And Doug and I were working at the village vanguard. And Norman had just left Pharaoh, Ferro Sanders, and he was starting his own group.

he had his promo pictures, you know, and he came in in the vanguard. And I remember he gave me a picture and he said, I'm going to my own group, you know. After I was totally through, you know, with Doug's situation, because we split in New York. I was trying to decide I wasn't ready to go solo per stay. I did a short tour with Duke Ellington. And I wrote down three. He was looking for a high soprano for what became his last spiritual concert. Okay.

A friend of mine and I sat down and we were trying to decide who I wanted to go with. Okay. the choices were Thad Jones and Mel Lewis, big band. Wow. Rosson, Roland Kirk. Oh, wow. And Norman Connors. Okay.

So I got in touch with all of them. I think Thad and now were going to Russia, somewhere in Europe, like in a week or two weeks. I didn't even have a passport at the time. And there was so much material. I didn't think I could do it justice. So cross them off. And then Rastan and Dorthan, his wife, were good friends of mine and Dugs. So I wondered if, you know, how when a couple breaks up.

Ah, what team? Who from the... Who gets the... Who wants the kids? Yeah, who gets the friends, you know. So I said, I don't know, you know, but Dorothe Ann and I are still friends. She's amazing. So Norman got it by default.

Wise choice. I agree. I agree. Yeah, yeah, because for vocals, you know, he became totally dependent on me to voice train them if need be and take them in and do. He would have the tracks done. McKinley Jackson did most of the arrangements. And sometimes he would even ask if they could sound like thus and so. Can you make, can you make him sound like, like he wanted me to make Eleanor Mills sound like me?

Yeah. So he would want you to morph or he would leave it up to you to decide the vocal direction of each artist? Well, yeah, because he would have the tracks done, and he would tell me who the singer was going to be. And like you do an instrumental arrangement, you know your ranges and your transpositions for your various instruments.

I would become familiar with the singer and know what to do with them, And a lot of the backgrounds and stuff I did anyway, because it was hard to find singers, you know, to blend and all that jazz. So you just stack it, you know. And I learned stacking. In fact, Maurice White called it molting because they were just starting to overdub. Yeah, multi-track. You know, when they did, when they did the first two albums, the two albums I recorded on.

So, yeah, yeah. I got to work with some wonderful folks, you know, Glenn Jones and Phyllis and, and gosh, so many, and Michael, Michael. Michael, yeah, at rehearsal, he'll tell, because I've done numerous dates with him, and he would tell the musicians, he said, yeah, you got to listen to Ms. Corn, because she taught me. All right. So funny. Yeah. So that was a good period. That was just a period of growth for me.

You've mentioned this twice, but I just really need to know about how a session goes with Phyllis Heimann and how she takes direction and how, what does that collaboration feel like? She gave everybody what for except me. She wouldn't even curse around me. And I never, I never asked for that. But I think, and I'm so grateful because, because I, you know, I, I, I just couldn't have, you know, that would have been it. We wouldn't have been friends, you know. Yeah. Because she, she could talk like a, like a platoon of soldiers.

She was tough. Very, very tough. But I have a feeling you didn't, you didn't have too much conflict, though. I feel like you were that woman. No, we never did. We never did. Period. it though. Like you were the person I feel like

that people went to that it was never a beef with Gene Karn. Like you're beefing with Gene Kahn? How? Right. I don't I don't be. That's good to know. Hey, I have a question.

So, you know, this is sort of a paradigm shift for you. Well, at least in the world of jazz, especially in the mid-70s and what you're seeing a lot of quote, serious jazz musicians transfer to more adult contemporary sounds or that sort of thing.

I mean, for Norman Conner's to come from the world of Farrow Sanders and whatnot and then start making pop hits, you know, was there any trepidation whatsoever in terms of like, hey, we're sick. Because I always, you know, when you see the Motown story, you hear like the Funk brothers talk about like, oh, man, we're serious jazz cats. and, you know, we got to play this, like, pop music to pay our bills. And even with James Brown's cats, like, those guys thought that, you know, we're serious jazz musicians and, you know, the boss just pays us good money. But on the side, we're doing jazz.

So for you, was there any trepidation whatsoever or was it just a natural move? Like, okay, it's time to move to the middle, at least, left to center and see what we can do? No trepidation at all because I, since I was a little girl, my dad loved the big bands. Okay. So if there were, if there was a big band anywhere within a hundred miles of Atlanta, my dad, my brother and I, we get in the car and we find that concert. So I loved, you know, and he took my dad was New Orleans. So jazz, you know, preservation jazz was, you know, was a mainstake where he was concerned. And he played a little piano by ear and stuff.

So it was all, there were no lines of demarcation with me for styles, styles of music or genres. And with Norman needing, going from, from Pharaoh, to pop, as you call it. That was during the fusion era. You know, Royers was doing fusion. They were the godfathers, the fusion. So it was just more growth and more stretching for me. It was delightful because I never liked being him been.

So was it new to suddenly hear. yourself on on radio was that like a thrilling moment or was it just a shrug like yeah whatever oh no it is always thrilling yeah yeah i never listened to my product i still don't listen to my product um what i loved it when they played it because when you listen to your own stuff do you proof listen only when it's time to make the next record i will do a deep dive and like binge listen but I don't listen to my music just like, just sit down for relaxation, right? You don't do that, right?

No, not really. Me neither. Me neither because I'm proofing, you know, saying, oh, I should have done this. I should have, you know, I should have put three more background, you know, stacked three more backgrounds. Because one on my Motown album,

was it Motown album? Yeah, yeah. I did this tune written by Reverend Oliver Wells. He wrote a spiritual tune for Earth, went, and fire. They took him on a couple of tours. And I did 30 voices. I had the engineer to bring in choir risers. And I would imitate. You stood at each soprano, altos, yeah. What? No. I did my own bass. Yeah, yeah. And I did some of the voices of the elderly ladies, you know, wore the hats every Sunday who had the big, wavy vibrato, the, ah, a vibrato.

I just remember it back, you know. And the engineer said, this will not work because you're going to sound like 30 versions of yourself. I said, no, I have references all the way. from my from 12 years old to put you know to put down. She's singing character. Yeah, yeah. Which song is it? See?

See? This what? It wasn't on the Motown album come to think of it. It was I, it's never been released. Okay, it was a project that I did. It was a version of Lift Every Voice and Sing that I did as a fundraiser for the Apex Museum, which is on Alvern Avenue, down, well, it was technically across the street from where my father's business was and a block and two blocks from

from Ebeneza Baptist. And I did that for them. It was, it was 45 when I did it because I think I did it in 80 something. And then I went back to the studio and digitally remastered it. Yeah, it was a, No, it's a set first. And then we did it as a CD. Okay. And it was lift every voice and sing. And Julian Bond did a soliloquy on the flip side talking about James Weldon Johnson and his brother, Rosemond Johnson, who wrote the song. That's where I had the 30 voices.

Yeah. Okay. All right, so I'm ready for the story. What brings you to Philly International? What's the steps that brought you there? Okay, Eddie Green, an amazing keyboardist from Philly, one of my favorite keyboardists, got in touch with me. This was when I was still recording and performing with Norman, Norman Connors,

got in touch with me and said that he he was calling me for getting in touch for Kenny Gamble and he wanted me to come to Philly and talk to

you know they wanted to talk to me about joining the label because I had been I performed in Philly at the Beesieu and places before that you know because although I wasn't a soloist as such, but I had an audience somehow because I remember seeing Larry Maggett at an event.

This was just before the pandemic. And he was talking about, you know, how I guess I had, well, I know I have pictures. I think he said he had pictures of when Patty came to sit in with me and Amy Lavert. So I went to Philly to 309. Rest in peace. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they're doing biopic, and we got to go there. They interviewed a lot of the former artists, and we did it in 309, which is now a hotel.

Yep. I didn't, I haven't even went over there. It's a hotel. It is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because for a long time, every time I passed by there, you know, first there was a big hole in the ground and I would just cry because, you know, that was my history. Yeah.

And yeah. And this is the recent documentary, right? This is the Sam Polar. I don't know when it's coming out. Yes. I think they're going to. That's what it is. Yeah.

Because they're going to add some more to it. And strangely, when I did my interview, my godson, Gamble's son, Khalif, his first born, was the camera guy. I was proud of that, of course. But during my entire interview, my voice trembled. And I thought it did. And then I didn't realize that was really the case until we finished. They put me in my car downstairs and I answered my phone and the voice and the tremble was gone. So I don't know if there were visitations there or not because I was.

was wondering, am I going to feel Teddy? You know, any of the guys, you know, Harold. Billis. Yeah, any of those folks that, you know, that I got started in the business with, you know, who were my buddies. So, yeah. Okay, what was I answering? I digress.

Oh, no, no, no, no. No, just coming to Philly International. What brought you? Okay. I get there to talk to meet with Gamble. It was on the night of an Ali fight. Okay. And, um, AC.

Everybody had left the building and we were going to talk for 15 minutes. And Gamble was going to, you know, I don't know how it's going to get there. But then I, you know, I never, I don't like fights, you know, boxing, any of that stuff. Boxing, boxing and wrestling and stuff. Not my stick. but we ended up talking through the whole match and and and and I dare say that was one of the best decisions I've ever made

because it was it was it was magic it was magic so what is the process now I mean at this time you're joining the label in 76 when they're at you know when they're at the true like high to their powers So what's the, I guess, you know, when you join, is, can you run us through like the process? Like, is there an A&R? Is there the person, like, are you deciding which songs you want to sing from them? Are they like, hey, we have a song for you?

Are you allowed to say, I don't like that one. Or, you know, can we change this? Like, how much leverage do you have in terms of, you being an artist there, or are you just on the conveyor belt of proven hitmakers? Well, it was, there was total respect. Okay. Gamble, Gamble, respected my musicianship. And in the building, there were the producers, the writers, you know,

McFand Whitehead, Dexter Wancel, Linda Creed, and, and, um, Tom Bell, whom we just lost. And when I get there, Gamble would tell me, you know, first of all, don't sing anything that you don't want to think. Don't be goaded into, you know, or persuaded, you know, you know what works for you. You know what, what fulfills you.

You know what works with your philosophies. And so I would go to, they will have. written stuff for you. Like McFadden it from my head, they would present their songs with magic. I mean, they were fabulous

dancers and pulling the flowers out of the sleeve. They had a presentation for you. They were selling it. They were selling it. They were a riot. I just adore them.

Yeah. And each of the producers who had written for you, composers who had written for you, presented their songs. And, you know, I'm there for probably a month, maybe more, just doing songs. And I overrecorded, so there's still stuff in the can, maybe a couple of albums in the can. And when the tunes that Kenny and Leon wrote for me, when we first started, they were in the room, you know, in the boardroom while I, you know, while I did the songs while I recorded the song. After that, they let me do the recordings and then either they bring in, we bring in Barbara and

Avet and Carla, the Swedish, to do the backgrounds. Or I would stack the backgrounds. And when I was finished, I would take it in the office and let, you know, let Kenny or call them in the studio and let them hear, you know, what they, what I'd done on this song and give me a critique. and it went like that. One of my favorite songs on your Philly debut record

was No Laughing Matter. Wow, yeah. So what are your memories of just that first album? It was an adventure. I remember the tunes that Dexter did were all experimental. Can you talk about him as a producer? I don't think many people know that.

Dexter Wanzel was really like a futuristic. I always felt like being under that that umbrella of Philly International almost limited him a bit because what I knew of what he was capable of. Like, you know, he really wanted to be like Afro-Futurist damn near Sun Ra level of experimentation. But they honed him back a little bit. But if you listen to like a lot of his solo stuff on his records, you can see that. but can you describe him as like a producer and a musician? Dexter was, is a visionary, truly a musical visionary, because you remember songs like Life on Mars.

Yes, man. He's been telling the world that there's life on Mars for, what, 50 years now. Right, right. Yeah, his song should be played for all the lines. launching should be a part of the music that they that the astronauts here when they go into outer space. He was just, just what is such a genius. It's amazing. Like, okay, when they did, when he and Cynthia Biggs did nights over Egypt. Yeah.

Cynthia did the research on that over in the east. over pyramids and Giza There's a sky in the east There once lived a girl She ruled the world Then down the Nile He came with a smile

She was the queen And he was the king Under the moonlight Yeah your eyes won't believe And your mind can't conceive Yeah Knights over Egypt They were talking about

Cleopatra of course and and it was everything that Dexter did has has roots I mean very deep like you said Afrocentric roots

yeah I don't really think about that to y'all said that that's deep about Dexter I really you're right every song so in being in that that cyclone of Dexter McFadden and Whitehead

and all those writers is there a story of a tune that you wanted that you couldn't get because another artist had it or a song that was offered to you that you might have passed on that became bigger for someone else?

The only tune and I guess it wasn't big for her but Macbaden Whitehead wrote a tune called I don't know no one else to turn to. And I I'm a grammarian and I didn't want to do it. You were trying to correct them.

It was just too many double negatives. It had a double negative in it. And I remember McFadden said, he said, okay, Karn, this song is going to be so big that you're going to say, hey, McFadden, write me another double negative song. Right. And strangely enough,

I love, love don't love nobody, always loved it. But I didn't want to cover it because it had double negative. Dang. But I covered it and become a theme song of mine. I have to do it every, every performance. But I'm so glad you said that for the longest, I was afraid to ask in public if that's grammatically correct or not correct because, you know, once the song becomes a staple, I just leave it alone.

So. You're a stinkler? No, I'm not. But for me, every time I heard love don't love nobody, I was like, I think that's only a term that we say. Like, you know, I wanted to make sure that I'd never ask, but always in my mind when I was a kid, I always felt like that wasn't grammatically correct. And so. You're so correct. Niebuhr's conversating. Nevers conversation. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save.

Get a quote at bellairdirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice. next to my ear saying shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

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Wherever you get your podcasts. 30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust your friends and neighbors? Or will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other. And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough. We reached for a feeling that exists in this city, but we're not stopping, are we? I'm Ben Nathafafaf.

And for my new series on Revisionist History, I took a deep dive into Staten Island's attempt to secede from New York City in the 1990s. And what it all has to do with the politics of resentment that dominate America today. Listen to Revisionist History, the Staten Island Problem, on the IHeart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Because you arrived to Philly International in 76 at the, in 1976 at the, the, the Jackson's had relocated to Philadelphia. Did you have any run-ins with them like doing that whole recording process?

Absolutely. We were recording at the same time. Oh, okay. And they, there was such, such nice kids. my my then husband calil they would talk they would snickle in the corner and look at calill because they said that he looked like their neighbor o j simpson oh wow that's what he really does strange i'd never noticed it so they they like calil and michael was having uh uh voice change problems. Okay.

He was, he was, what, he might have been 20 then? I don't know how old he was. On 76 he was 18. 18, okay. But he, his voice was changing. Right. And there were, and we were all in the same hotel at the Latham. Uh, on, what's that, Walnut?

Okay. Yeah. On 17th at Walnut. And, and we, we all lived in that hotel. That's where my problem was. We lived in one part of the hotel, and they had the fire doors closed, you know, because we had instruments in our room and stuck. Right. So Michael was always in my suite, and he confided in me that he was cracking.

There were certain notes on certain songs that he would crack. And so we worked on that. I've been a vocal coach since I was 12 working with those choir voices. Oh, wow. So we worked on, we worked on his changing the enunciation sometimes, changing where he placed notes. And sometimes, and I tried to convince him to just change the notes and the phrases, you know, because he was full of, full of ideas, full of musical ideas. But he was so stubborn about, you know, instead of, instead of, instead of, this figure, why can't we change it to another figure?

And it conveyed the same idea. But he was just stuck on certain, you know, certain figures that he had contrived in his, you know, in his head as part of his plan. His muscle memory. We worked. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's when I discovered he, he was, he was a pediatric insomniac.

because my mother was a pediatric insomnia. Children who don't sleep well at night. Oh, kids. Okay, children insomnia. Yeah, all the way through adulthood. My mother took naps during the day because she was just roaming around the house at night. Wow.

Yeah, and because he would, when he'd come into my room after we finish our little sessions, I remember the first time he said, he said, I'm going to take a nap. and he pointed to the floor on the other side of my bed. And I'm a germaphobe. So I wouldn't even let my kids, you know, when they grow up and travel with me, they couldn't even walk barefoot on a hotel floor.

Oh, no, no, no, no. Better get your face. I started getting the housekeeper to leave me sheets and pillowcases and stuff. So when he, you know, when he'd come over to take a nap, he'd sleep on the floor. And I remember hearing when they were accusing him of the children thing, I was saying, and he mentioned one day to them, he said, no, I never slept in the bed with them. He said, I slept on the floor. I said, yes, I know he does. You know, that just blew me away.

Wow. me so badly. But that's what was happening when we were all recording at the same time. So you helped him develop his pre-Pree Seth Riggs. Wow. You were a vocal train for him. Yeah, you know, all singers should get checked by Seth Riggs. Oh, no doubt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Checked. He's pretty, he's pretty old now. So hurry up. Well, no, there's enough lessons on YouTube that we can just go there. He's on YouTube? Wow, that's heavy.

Yeah, there's a 45-minute session of Michael Jackson and Seth Riggs doing vocal exercises. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. You know, Maurice had some issues, and he would come up, you know, come up, and I would work with him vocally. And I remember after Doug and I had moved to New York, I heard changes. You know, I'd go to see them a lot when they performed live. And I would ask him about stuff, you know, that he was doing. I said, well, you know, you know, where'd that come from?

He said, actually, he said, I went to Seth Riggs. I said, okay. And he said, and I said, well, it's so it worked. He said, yeah, but the thing is, everything you told me and taught me, Seth Riggs told me and taught me. He said, but I incorporated it because I had to pay him. You're not a paid vocal coach. I'm not always coaching. Not for my friends, not for Phyllis, not for Michael.

No, I was getting- She was looking out for the cookout. Yeah, but they was paying somebody. I know, but in 76, we weren't. I know. Yeah, but, you know, Michael was there yet. He wanted me and the kids to take him to six flags, you know. Wow.

And my mother, you know, told me, you can't take this 46, like they're just open. He said, because, because you don't have security. and his security wouldn't work. You just can't do that. So, no, he was like a family member. My mother went to one of their concerts, and I could never get my mother to go to anybody's concerts,

but mine and Patty. In fact, she said Patty's was the best concert she had ever gone to. Oh. I almost got jealous. Second best. No, no, she said it was best. Ms. Jean, I wanted to ask you about recording two particular songs. Was that All It Was, That All It Was, and of course, don't let it go to your head, but was that all it was?

Do you remember that session and what that was like? I do. I really do. Jerry Butler, the coolest guy in music. That's why they call him the Ice Man. He literally is. He wrote that one. He gave me that one. and it was a ballot.

And it was so odd hearing the demo with Jerry Butler singing. You know, I'm used to hearing him do those smooth ballots, you know, except stuff like Western Union man, but that was still smooth and cool and icy. So it was just so odd hearing him sing, was that all it was. and this was at the beginning of disco. Yes, man. And although we didn't, I didn't choose it for that reason, but when it was, it was one take, too.

Because I'm not a one take girl. It's just one time. I like to do the scratch vocals. I like to live with them a couple of days and then come back in and perfect it. You know, get it, live with it, and then get it like I really want it. And I had finished the take and Jerry said, well, that's the take. And I said, are you sure? Because, you know, my old habit was to live with it and then do it over.

All right. Perfected. John Ushery did the instrumental, did the orchestration. That was a masterpiece of the orchestration. It was really good. And it was so cute seeing them in the studio, the two of him. Jerry's all cool, you know, and icy, like it said, and mature. And John Ushery couldn't sit still.

He had, you know, one of those type A personalities. Yeah. And he was all over, all over the room. For the when I find you love album, what was happening at CBS, at that time because I felt like that's that album should have been way bigger was that all it was is a club staple yeah we got we didn't realize it was gonna be you know so embraced by the disco world but the discos started calling the label asking for you know a 12 inch you know they obliged of course but um there was a

a conflicting period there with CBS and Philly International. And was, was, you know, was in that, came out during that period. So it might have been part of that, that conflict because Gamble and Huff were powerful, very powerful. And there could have been rumbling. of envy, you know, that kind of thing. Too much power. So what led to the journey to Motown? Gamble was deciding to do other things.

He came to me and said, you know, he wanted to do other things. And he brought his nephew, Chuck Gamble, that had the label. But before that, he formed another label and put, I know he put me on there. And he put the OJs on there and maybe, maybe Teddy. And the stylistic. T-S-O-P. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And he was, he was contemplating doing other things at the time. Is this when he started doing the real estate stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he asked me, what label would I like to, you know, to go with? because our executive vice president did my deal with Motown. So it was handing your niece over to, you know, to another family.

I see. Yeah, so that's how that happened. Another one of my favorite song of yours, Ms. Jean, I want to talk about, it's a duet. I'm back for more. How? Do you remember that session? She did do that.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, that was a production of Norman Connors on for Al Johnson. Al Johnson. Yeah, and they had finished Al's album and they didn't have a hot single. So they called me, they recorded it in L.A. And so they called me. We started looking for a clincher song, you know, strong, strong for a single. and we found I'm Back for More on an old Tavares album.

Wow. Oh. Yeah. Yep. And so I thought we should do it as a duet. So I was going to use Sibyl Thomas, one of Rufus Thomas's daughters. Okay. Because he's got some singing daughters, boy.

But Sible had moved to New York at the time. So I ended up doing doing it as a duet with Al. And that song has been sampled more than anything I've combined that I've been recorded. I was just about to ask y'all that. Like, what are the samples in the song? I was like, what are the songs that we know from this song? God, who is just sampled? Sampled it.

Well, yes. Yeah, well did it. And there are, when you look on who sampled, there are names of rap groups. and rappers that I don't even know. So a lot of the places. We don't know him either. Same there?

Same for me. Okay. I don't feel so badly then. Oh, okay. You must have took sampling well because since you said that you're on a steady evolution and you're fine with growing and going through whatever changes, when they started sampling and using it for hip hop, you were cool about it, right? Oh, I loved it.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, because don't let it go to my head. It's like, you know, everybody loves that brand new being songs. Yeah, well, don't let it go to your head. You know, one of those message things that Kenny and Leon were famous for. And surprisingly, little known fact, they, I remember when Kenny gave me the song, he said, because he gave it to me as a demo with him playing guitar and singing, you know, and Huff did.

did a little piano on it. And so when I, he said, this, you might like this one. And he said, don't worry, Huff and I have the, have the background. And I thought, that's cool. You know, so when I finished, when I finished putting down the lead vocal, the final vocal, I went in his office and I said, come on, we're ready for the backgrounds. And Gamble said, oh, that's okay, Gene, you got it. And I said, oh, no. No, no. You've got to come sing this with me. And they do.

That's them in the background? Don't let it go to it? No, no, no, no. Who's the, who goes to? No, no, no. That was me doing all the more. I mean, duh. Sorry.

Okay. I'm sorry. I knew that. I'm just, okay. Okay. So this is one, I don't even know that's rolling chambers playing guitar with you on that guitar scatty thing at the end. but when you want to incorporate your scatting whatnot,

and we haven't interviewed the Whispers or George Benson yet, so you're probably the first pop scatter that I can ask this to. What comes first? Like, are you singing your, and I'm talking about the thing that you do at the end? Most folks can't hear that I'm with that. You know, don't even know that that's under me. Because what I did was I was just, I was thinking of ad libs.

Well, that was in the middle, but like it ended up, you know, being like an ad lib section. Right. And I did. And I don't know if it was rolling or not on guitar then. But, yeah, I imitated the, the, don't ever, never, never let it. Don't let it go to your head your head. So that was you first, and then they followed you. No, I was imitating.

I was imitating his solo. Oh, okay. So he put, like we did on Infanized, you know, going back to that period. Because like on infinized, every, every note in the solo, in Wayne Shorter's solo, someday you will grow up, you'll grow up and had your pride. Little girl, you must try to be strong. That was us putting lyrics to Wayne's solo. Okay.

Yeah, so it was the same habit. You decided to do, if you don't know beat by now, which the irony of it is that you're not on Philly International anymore. That's what Motown said too. Was it your idea to do it? that Motown like, oh, we have a legacy artist from Philly International, so let's bring some of that over here? No, it was, it was, it was my, my idea. In fact, when, when, when I made, who was it, okay, Iris Gordy and, and, um, Ranona Gordy were, you know, over, over that, that project.

Yeah. They, when I said, I want to do, if you don't know me by now, they, the scullabut was, well, you've already left that label. So they gave me about five long play albums with samples of Joe Bet music. Okay. Because it was like, what about us? You know, well, they didn't say that. Right. I got it.

And from those, I chose, my baby loves me. Oh, yeah. I did that. And I did another Motown tune. But, yeah, but if you don't know me by now, I remember telling Teddy that I wanted to cover, you know, to cover that. Well, what I wanted to do at first was, I miss you. Oh, I miss you.

Right, right. And Teddy said, that doesn't fit you, he said, because think about the lyrics, he said, because it's got drinking, drinking, he said, you don't drink. Why are you going to do that? That's when I went to if you don't know me by now. Another genius move on that album.

And this is kind of weird. I think the way that I discovered classic songs as I discovered the cover first. I knew your version of completeness first before I knew Minnie Rippetton's version.

Many Repetton, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow, yeah. You know, that was the only thing that she had recorded that I could do. Oh, because she just started flexing. But everything else of hers was out of my stratosphere.

And the week that she passed away, she came to see me at the Roxy. Oh, wow. I did maybe three days at the Roxy. And it was just a few months before she passed away. because she was telling me how she was, she said, she said, I'm putting y'all down. She was, because she was on CBS.

Right. And she said, I'm going to do my own thing. She was telling me about a clothing line. This was way after she had had the mastectomy. And those two nights, George Duke came to see me. Stevie came to see me. Serita came to see me. Chaka, Chaka was just pregnant with her first child.

Then there was so many folks that I didn't know came to see me at the Roxy. It's right on sunset, right at the Beverly Hills line at the sign. Yeah, yeah. I know that for you in 86, you know, one of the best comeback stories in music was, you know, you achieving your number one single with Closer Than Close. Right. And again, I'm Flame of Love is like one of my all-time favorite songs of yours. Generally, what was happening in 86 for you?

Like, were you expecting this at all? Because I think a lot of times when artists are on a lot of labels and they record and record and the desired results, I mean, sometimes it's like a stalled car, sometimes it's not. But this really truly felt like a victory lap for you. Like, can you talk about just the whole process of making that record and what your expectations were and how did it feel to come with those two hit singles? Well, it was so, such a pleasure to work with Grover. Yeah. Yeah, because a friend of his, what's his name?

He used to be on the news here in Philly. I knew him. He does an ad now for a legal firm, and his name will come to me, but he went to Morehouse. And I met him in Atlanta, you know, when he was matriculating. And he hooked, it was his idea for me and Grover to get to know each other. So he made the introduction. And it was like we were separated Siamese twins, Grover and I. We were so compatible.

It was just amazing. In fact, Closer Than Close was the first song we chose because he produced two of my albums, the two on Atlantic. And we just thought so much alike. And he just loved playing on my product. You know, he played on just about everything on those two hours. albums. In fact, on the 24th of April in Atlantic City, the National R&B Music Society is in conjunction with the mayor of Atlantic City is installing the first class of artists on the Atlantic City

walk of fame. And I know the Delphonics are on there. James Brown will be installed. And Grover Washington Jr. So I, you know, and I've been in touch with, you know, with his daughter and his son and his wife, Chris. And they're going to be there. And yeah, and the grandchildren. Yeah.

So I had to mention that. But I had, my then manager had put me on two labels. Sugar Hill Records was one and Boston International Records with Marie Star, Sugar Hill Records. Oh, wow. And Sylvia, Sylvia Robinson. And he was in such a hurry. We'd get half an album done.

And he was saying, well, they're not, you know, they're not doing this. quickly enough, so he would get me, he made me leave the label and got both Maurice and Sylvia to grant me unconditional releases from the label. But, of course, I stayed with Sylvie Rohn for the two albums on Atlantic. It was wea then, you know, Electro Cylum, Atlantic, and Warner Bros. There's no shortcut for saving time. But saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellairdirect.com.

When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up.

Without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle.

I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your friends,

trip. I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing they're receiving. It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender. athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. Twelve seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030, you better be hitting the ground going a heart in the South now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts.

30 years ago, an island off Manhattan almost brought down New York City. Who will you trust? Your friends and neighbors? Or will you trust the people five miles overseas? This is a story about neighbors turning on each other. And what happens when a forgotten place decides it's had enough. We reached for a feeling that exists in this city, but we're not stopping, are we? I'm Ben Nathafafaf. And for my new series on Revisionist History, I took a deep dive into Staten Island's attempt

to secede from New York City in the 1990s, and what it all has to do with the politics of resentment that dominate America today. Listen to Revisionist history, the Staten Island problem. on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Once the 90s come along, how do you feel the industry, especially with black artists, I guess with the process of, you know, with hip hop coming in and whatnot, and you're seeing like another generation of artists come into the system that's kind of far away from the traditional style of what soul or singing or jazz music or whatever like how do you not get discouraged

by that i think i think because a lot of artists um could easily fall into bitterness and anger and for some reason i don't feel i don't feel that from you at at all like how have you been able to maintain your cool and sort of a steady pace throughout your career yeah um you're very astute as an observer because it never affected me negatively. I like the fact that they sampled me a lot, you know, and back when, you know, when the lyrics were wholesome and cute, you know, and positive, I, you know, I embraced it as well. And they used vintage music anyway, you know, on there. So I like the fact that they were introducing the young listeners to the vintage artist and the vintage sound.

So I was cool with it. And the fact that I, you know, had a jazz audience, you know, a strong, sturdy jazz audience and the R&B side. So I, you know, I could perform everywhere, you know, and in Europe, you can, you can perform in Europe for the rest of your life. They know more songs than you know. Absolutely. So I was, I was cool. Can you also talk about, too? Because I remember a time, and these are from my childhood memories, but I remember a time when you got into education and you were teaching, weren't you teaching at Howard?

And you were teaching vocal? Oh, I got offers from several universities. Yeah. Yeah, to join their faculty. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it was a bit too confining. Okay.

In fact, a couple of universities offered me that said, okay, you can pick your days that you'll have classes. And they had replacements for me, subs for me, when I had to, you know, to go to work, you know, this week. And, you know, it was cool like that. But I just didn't, you know, because I was still raising the kids then. And that happened with some Broadway offers as well because I couldn't bring the kids to New York. What did you say no to? My mother did not want to live in New York. Oh, well, yeah, that part, that part.

It's very different than Atlanta. Yeah, yeah. But the fact that I had those two very diverse audiences kept me afloat. And I, you know, I, and I'm glad a lot of the rappers have grown up. Your vintage rappers have grown up and changed their lyrics. And I'm thinking that's going to happen down the road for the younger ones, you know. So there's hope. People mature.

That's right. I have one more question. So can you talk about your work on the Jazz Is Dead series with Alicia Heat and Adrian? Oh, that was quite an experience. You know, I hadn't done anything like that since I appeared on an album. And you mentioned M. Tumei. Right. years and years ago

I think it might have been no it wasn't his first album it was called Life Cycle and he recorded in Boston at the New England Conservatory and he had

Andy Bay Bede Biddy Bridgewater Ron Carter so many of you know of the top jazz art artist on this project.

And what he brought was a skeleton, skeleton, you know, skeleton tracks, because it was an album. And we basically, he gave us titles, themes, patterns, and we basically, it was extemporaneous for the most part. and not since then had I been able to do that until I got with Ali Muhammad Shahid and Adrian Young because I get there in the studio they hadn't sent me any music

no ideas no titles nothing and Adrian's since it plays me some changes, pretty avant-garde changes from most of those tunes, which was very appealing to me, you know, like sitting in with Farrell Sanders or Thelonious Muck, you know, sometimes. Right. So that was cool by me. And then I had to go on Mike with no idea as to what I was going to sing, which I hadn't done, like it said, since the

to me album. I composed my lyrics. I composed the melodies, just listening to the chords, and the titles of the songs were all extemporaneous. And off the top of my head with no prior notice, no prior conceiving and didn't even know that was how it was good. It was, it was a stretch. Like exercise, right? Like did it feel like exercise? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was like calisthenics for a whole album. But you did it. It made you stand on your tippy toes. That's good.

Yeah. Well, you know, I want to thank you for taking time out to speak with us. And, you know, we're lifelong fans of yours and, you know, definitely one of my favorite singers. And I thank you for taking a chance. on an unknown drummer and you know that that had a massive effect on me. Tell him the circle back story, Auntie, that that you do now every day, every night. Oh, absolutely. You know, I didn't remember you from, you know, from the, from the performances. Okay. I started, I, uh, who is your guy? Your late night guy that you'll,

Jimmy Fallon. Oh, Jimmy Fallon. Yes. I never watched his show. Mm-hmm. I passed by his show, you know, channel surfing, and I saw you and your guys. Mm-hmm. I tried to like his part, you know, his jokes and his guests and so on. And it didn't work.

So I started recording your show, his show, y'all's show. And I would, I would fast forward to when y'all broke for commercials, till you played, you know, on the fade for the commercials, and when you came back. And that I loved. And I guess I, it was because cellularly, I remembered you. Oh. That would get nothing for me. See?

Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, I guess we're leaving the show now, Steve, so. Yeah. Watch tonight's show. It's a hot mess. Shut up, man. Whatever.

The music. No, especially the music. No, I thank you. Thank you once again. And on behalf of unpaid bill, get well, bro, and Fontyglo. Absolutely. Get well, unpaid bill. Thank you, Steve.

We thank you. And this is another classic episode of Questlove Supreme. And we'll see you next week on the next go round. All right, y'all. Peace. Much Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. People wake up and go, oh, damn, wait a hold up. They change all of that. Yes. It's real. This is a wholesale attack. It is targeting black people in every federal agency.

It's raw. White folks have never allowed that reckoning to last more than a decade. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Self-Care September is your reminder to slow to, down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask, why am I like this? I'm Jemisbeg, host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, and this month we're helping you make sense of

the person that you are becoming, from setting boundaries and navigating friendships, to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships, and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions, without us even realizing it, aren't driven by what we truly want, but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author Patra Mathers and her husband Michael mailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know

they had died by suicide. Dear honies, this is goodbye. By the time you get this letter, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland. Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? Listen to Death of an Artist on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin.

This season on my podcast, here's the thing. I talk to actor Stephen Root. I'm a people watcher. You see that guy going down the ring, though, yeah, I can use that. And Open Igloo co-founder, Alia Mohammed. I love staying on top of what is going on in our city, what is on renter's minds, and taking all of that knowledge to build a platform that hopefully is going to make New York City better in the long run.

Listen to Here's the Thing on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.