The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Joi

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Singer, songwriter and producer Joi talks about how her debut album changed the direction of Madonna's Bedtime Stories, working with Fishbone, her spot in the Dungeon Family tree and so much more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated

the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where, you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of,

you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot in luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon and this is my friend. He's much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-hosted the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Korsloves Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What up, QLS fam? It's Laeam. And this QLS classic takes us back to a time when the whole crew went to Los Angeles, did a few interviews. Oh, but this one right here is special. I'm talking about joy. Yes, I'm taking you back to February 14th, 2018, where we sat down with joy, singer, songwriter, producer.

She talks about her debut album, how it would change the direction of it. Madonna's bedtime stories working with Fishbone and her spot in the Dungeon Family Treat and so much more. Check this out. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, subprima role call. Suprema, sub, subprima role call. Suprema, sub, subprima roll call. Why this block got me feeling pressure?

Yeah. I'm going insane. Yeah. No joy of Frankie Beverly. reference for sunshine and rain. Rocah, Suprema, Suprema, Rocault. Suprema, Suprema, Suprema, Roca

Quante's in the building. Yeah. Y'all know what I'm about. Yeah. I made a record with joy. Yeah. In my house. Role call.

Supraima, Supraima, Supraima, Roe call. Supraima, Supraima, Supraima Roca. My name is Sugar. Oy. I'm your boy.

I bring you joy Boy I bring you Oh joy Yeah Supreme Supreme a roll car Sub prima roll call

Subma And I'm a little nervous. Yeah. Mother fucking joy. My first Roe Girl Crush. Roll call. That is right. It's right.

Suprema, Role Car. Suprema, Subrema, Subrema, Subrema, Role Call. Sometimes they call me kitty. Yeah. Sometimes they call me pussy. Yeah. Sometimes they call me sugar.

Yeah. But today I'm going to be joined. Rolla. Supremma, I was saying you run. So, Superima. So, Superima. So, Surmina.

Subrimma. Submina. Supremea Subima Roca Supreme a Roll call Supremma Subma

Subrama roll call Oh Roy Thank God that's over That's a tass Freestyleer I am not I'm a little rusty on that I'm awful

Yeah you can tell It's been a minute Sorry black dog Everybody looking bad Yeah exactly She's funny though Yeah Ladies and gentlemen

Welcome to another episode of Questlub Supreme Of course, love in the house. We got Team Supreme. Hello, people. How's going on, Fonte? I'm good, man. I was about saying Happy New Year.

I was like, no, that's totally wrong. I don't know, you know, it's going to air. But, no, I'm good, man. Happy to be in LA. It's Black History Month. We have to say that. Black History Month. Something, I think, baby.

I don't know. It might be Black History, Mom. Might be March. Who knows? And, yeah, we have to mention that we are broadcast in live from the illustrious Westlake audio recording studios The house that the Kang did The house that Michael Jackson

Drill of Money built this house We're actually, if you've seen the Michael Jackson Bad 25 documentary We are really We are literally In the spot where like him and Stevie and Seida Garrett They said that's where he wrote the piano is where

Yeah the piano the girl is mine piano is behind us I believe that Bruce Wadeen built this this kind of, it looks like a pyramid-esque looking, what would you call this? What? What did you call this Steve? You're our engineers, Steve. It's a stage.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you got to come up more colorful, it's a nice stage. No, that's not happening, Steve. It's sort of like a booth, but sort of a, it's very unusual. Anyway, watch the bad 25 documents. It's incredible stage.

One of the best stages of a bill. But it's kind of cool to be here because even... Well, Bad was recorded here. Yeah. And the things in the... The Alanis Moore said how a jagged little pill. Wow. Was done here among, I'm sure,

millions of... A million other things, right? We have a special guest with us today. I will say that I could probably name three people in history that kind of face the burden of... of being way before their time. Man. For me, you know,

Sugio's is one of those people. Betty Davis is definitely one of those people. And I feel as though our guest today is definitely so ahead of her time because everything that she's ever done, other people have graciously walk through. Yoink? Well, I mean, you know,

I mean, unfortunately in life, some people have to pave the, the red carpet or part to see for other people to walk through effortlessly and sometimes never get the credit for it. Somebody got to carry the machete. Exactly. Somebody got inspired those bedtime stories. Exactly.

So the greatest machete carry up all time, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show. Joy Gilliam. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here with you. I'm really glad you're here. You know, we've been for a long time crossing paths.

touring with each other, but this is the conversation I've been dying to have with you forever. Okay. Because, you know, I have so many questions about the path and the trail that you blazed and

and the after effects of it. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. So I feel like this is a police interrogation. So, Joy, You bought the bottle at 11 a.m.

You know you're going to fucked up right. That's one of my favorite. So we're, for our listeners that don't know. Yes. Where are you, where are you from? I was born in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, Nashville. That is weird because I thought you were born.

And I'm the king of assuming that our guests are born in certain places. What are you think, Atlanta? That's a whole little narrow. being born in Brooklyn. Wait, you're not born in Atlanta? Where did you think I was born? I thought you were born in Atlanta. Did you?

That's not a hard. That's not bad, though. A lot of people think I'm from Atlanta. Just because I spend so much time there. I guess the whole Tennessee kiddie, every Tennessee reference you had. You know, I was always, you know, Tennessee slim. All right. So you rep your set?

I rep my set. But I wrap, you know, Aetown down also. But born and raised in that for Tennessee. You're born in there. Okay. So what was your childhood music and music? environment like? Well, I had a pretty intensive love affair with music early on.

My mama had an album. She had a friend that worked as a DJ or something. My mom had a bunch of hustles when I was growing up to that made me feel like we were rich. Even though we weren't hindsight looking back, we were absolutely not rich. but my mom worked hard and I felt I had you know things at my at my access

and so my mom had a DJ friend and had a bunch of albums and stuff and I would go through those albums and listen to them when I was really, really little and my parents were still together my daddy listened to a lot of Johnny Guitar Watson and my daddy played

pro-bile when I was little so we had a little you know young your father was on the Steelers right He was. He was quarterback. He's a legacy, right? Like a grandfather, too?

And my granddaddy was a very well-respected college football coach. He was. He's in the Hall of Fame, actually. When you were young, did you know that your dad was, do you know who he was? Like, did you know y'all kind of had it good? Well, had it good is, you know, that's relative. That's relative as a motherfucker. I recognize.

knew that he was talented. I knew that people respected him a lot. I knew that he had done some great things. So you grew up in a football environment? I grew up in a football, a heavy football environment. So like weekends were like holidays and? But my family is very woman heavy also. But the men in my family a lot of them played football, worked in football.

So it was just, you know, the women embraced it as well. But I I didn't have to be all up in it if I didn't want to be, but it was deeply entrenched in the culture of me growing up, particularly at HBCU football because my grandfather was coached at Tennessee State. Oh, okay. And my dad was, you know, a star player at Tennessee State as well. So the Gilliam, the weight.

Yeah, the weight of the Gilliam name in Tennessee State was like a, you know, it's a lot of weight. That meant something. Yeah, it meant something. Did you go after them? I mean, I went there for a hot second. For a high second, I went to Tennessee State, a whole semester. Wow. You didn't get your books out of the bookstore.

Did you even have a meal plan? And all of that is such a blur. Like, I barely even remember. But I don't want to neglect. I don't want to neglect. Quest asked me about the music, though. I don't want to neglect that part. It was a lot of P-Funk and a lot of LaVelle,

and it was AM radio, which back then kind of, a mixed blue-ey-soul and, you know, root soul as well. And so that was constantly, you know, playing. It was a constant diet of that. And my parents were young. And so my mom would take me to concerts with her. I saw the mothership land, you know, when I was six in Nashville. I saw LaBelle perform at World Memorial Auditorium.

win. Just because of your musical openness and all the risk that you've taken and stuff, I was like, well, certainly in your formative years, you had to have adapted to this early. I mean, there's some people that like either

you know, for beat makers, you know, they'll start collecting records and then discover like their uncle's records or something like that, but you know, always felt as though you might have gotten his education super early. Are you, where do you fall on the sibling line? Are you, I'm the oldest.

Okay, man, that's something weird. Because normally the youngest of the brood gets the trickle down music collection. And I'm the oldest on some, like I was mostly an only child. It's weird. So no cousins to pass down stuff to you. Lots of big cousins, but I just, I was always a little bit. You were just adventurous. Yeah, and a little bit different from my other.

The things that interest me were just different than everybody else was kind of thinking about, I don't know, future and getting married and things like that. And I was just thinking how to, you know, just go deeper until the flunk and expand my mind. What's your sign, Joy? Into the stratosphere, Aquarius. I knew it. Okay, that's what it, I guess. She's five days from us.

Oh, one of you. One of you. January 20. We're both. January 20th. Yep, I'm 20th. Yeah, we're both January 20. But she was born like 1990.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I could tell. Yeah, honey. She was one when the pendulum bar I came out. She was just a little bit older than Keepey. I ain't you just a little bit older than my baby. Wait a minute. Yeah.

Okay. But, um. That's lies, Joy. Yeah. But we'll just, you know, we'll go with it today. We'll play. Let's go with it. But yeah, I just was a little bit different from my cousins.

But still not a, not a, not a, not a, not a, not a, not a, not a, not a secluded or introverted or weird old kid per se. But in my mind, were you the black sheep of the family? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. But that developed a little more, I think, later. I was a little more risk-taking.

Like, I remember smoking some cigarettes and shit at the house when I was little, like, six years old. Like, my cousin made me love some cigarettes there. And, like, maybe I smoked them. And I don't know how I ended up being able to even light it and do it. But I remember them, like, finding me and being like, let me smell your breath. And I was just like, dude. smoke cloud coming out of my mouth when I'm like six and I was in trouble and

even like with you know just all of my interactions were a little different growing up I had two boyfriends in kindergarten same time uh-huh yes same damn time I mean you know I mean and they were fine with it yeah he was pimper you know what I mean so there's that I just I don't know I was just but I got in trouble for it because we were you know kind of uh I was just ahead of the curve there were certain things that are like natural explorations for little people that all little people do. But I think my understanding of them as a little person was much keener. And I think because it was much keener, I had, I recognized that it wasn't as keen for everybody else. And I think that kind of made me realize, you might be a little different. So, you know, in any interaction,

no matter what it was, you know, it's just a little bit here with it and everybody else might have been kind of like, right there. So then I would try to kind of backpill and kind of be. back there with everybody else. But that doesn't, you know, that don't work. So music-wise, how did you express it? Like, what... Now my mom... Did you have bands in high school or that sort of thing?

I didn't do that, but I did sing in high school. So I was, you know, doing some talent shows and won some talent shows and was a dancer for like 13 years. I took ballet. When did your family know you could sing? When I was little, little. Probably like maybe four or five.

My grandmother used to belong to a little. lady social group called the Beautiful Lilies. That is so black and southern. Isn't it just awesome and amazing? I can see it. I can see the church chats. I just lovely ladies. They bring a, you know, it's potluck.

They bring a dish. They play Pekino and Vingo. And I remember singing you light up my life for them. By Debbie Boone. By Debbie Boone. What? Say something. Say something.

That song is number one for like a hundred weeks ago. What? Massiveness. Wait, speaking of which, okay, if you ever get the chance, Jimmy Castor bunch has, yeah, if y'all can see Fonte's eyebrows. Yeah, I'm like, just begun Jimmy Castles? Yes, that Jimmy Castor bunch has a,

one of the most jaw-dropping versions of U-Light of my life. That's hilarious. Like in a bad way? Like, it's bad or it's dope? It's in a very good and terrible. Randy Watson with the saxophone too because he played saxophone.

With the saxophone. You got a peep. You light of my life by the Jimmy Castor bunch produced by Billy Davis Jr. Oh, wow. From Maine and Greenland.

No, Louis Davis Jr. Merlema Co. Melville. Marlon Cooper. I'm thinking, man. That was fifth dimension. Fifth dimension.

That's what I was thinking. Yeah. I sang you light up my life in third grade to win this girl's heart. Like I stood up in front of everybody and saying that and stole her away from the other.

Did you really? It worked. It really worked. Hell yeah, Steve. I don't believe you. How does it sound, Steve? Wait, it was the second or third grade. Something like that.

I don't believe it. Oh, my God. I'm sleeping. Forgive me. Okay, Steve. Wait, you know what's funny? That's the piano from I don't believe it. That's right.

Just makes him shit up. No, that's the, that's the girl. The line, I don't believe it is from that song. And so, that's the, never mind. That's the piano there. Yeah. That's it. Who is that damn quick?

Quest love Supreme. Yeah, you're in nerd. Yeah, hell now. Sorry. Get ready. Maybe I didn't warn you about this before. I love it. But I figured it would have to be if it was y'all two together because I'm familiar

with your nerd and I'm familiar with Quest nerd too. Yeah. And I figured this. Yeah. The level. I figured it was going to be. Well, he's the higher echelon, you know, higher echelon and higher education. I sang you light of my life in fucking third grade.

I'm a fucking nerd. Talent Steed. No, there's nerd geek and I'm dweeb, man. I'm dweeb. I love it. So you didn't have any bands or anything, so. Not bands, no. I worked with, after winning the talent show,

I guess I was in 10th grade, and I sung, Everything Must Change. Ooh. Oh, yes. Of course. And then I also, now here's a fun fact. The Apollo Classic, Everything Was Chay. But my, the pianist that accompanied me,

was Gary Jenkins, who was Liljee from Silk. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And he went to Tennessee State. He went to Tennessee State. He's an amazing piano player, like ridiculous. And he used to do all the funerals and weddings and sang at people's churches and, you know, all of that stuff around Nashville, because he's from Nashville too.

And so he was my accompaniment and he and I duet it. We started off with nobody loves me like you do. And then we segueed into everything. Wow. And I went a talent show. But after that, I started working with some producers in Nashville and got in the studio. So that was when I first went to the studio, I guess I was about 16. You know, I know that Nashville is in Music City, but also primarily know it as a kind of a country.

Country music, yeah. But I know that songwriters down there. Is there any sort of, at least when I say urban? I mean like to the to the sort of cosmic funk level that you're on that you brought to the Atlanta community. Was there any of that sort of culture in Tennessee at all? Not really.

But I also feel like Nashville was a place that was sort of ripe for getting whatever you wanted to get. There were things, lots and lots of cultural diversity that came, artistic cultural diversity that came through Nashville back then. So my mom, because I was, you know, a dancer, I enjoyed theater and I sang and stuff. My mom always had me very plugged into all the stuff that was happening in the city. So it was really more so a blend of all of what I was, you know, being exposed to at the time.

Lots of theater, lots of dance and lots of, you know, music by my choosing, by my own hand. And whatever was on AM radio at the time. But in terms of a scene like you're talking about, no. That wasn't happening. What was it that got you into dance? How did you? I just was always dancing and shit when I was little, and my mom put me in ballet.

That's what mama's do. Yeah. And she also felt like I was a little clumsy when I was little. And when I was very small, she thought I was clumsy, and so she wanted me to be graceful. And so she put me in ballet. That's what she said. She didn't do the combo, the ballet jazz tap combo?

I did that. That came later, but the root of it, it started with ballet. The jazz and all that came when she really saw that I had taken to the dance. And so probably in about maybe third grade, I started taking like modern and jazz and tap and tap and all of that. But from like little girl, like three years old to like 16, I was like ballet with some jazz and tap and stuff, you know, mixed in. So when did you leave Tennessee? I left Nashville.

I guess technically I left when I went to Memphis State and 89. I was still kind of coming back and forth because I also went to Tennessee State, like I said, for a semester. I guess I officially left Nashville probably in, let's say, 93, officially. 92, 93. Oh, man. But wait, that was the year, year. Nah, Penelbaugh was 94. Pendlebyte came out.

I think it dropped in 94, but Sunshine and the rain dropped in 93, I think. That's how that worked. That was working on it in 93. Okay. So I moved to Atlanta, like. like top of 93 and like by that summer I was working on Pimba. Wow. So why, well, I want to know, what drew you to Atlanta?

Right. Now in 92, Dallas Austin came to Nashville. Okay. And he was working on at that time, Holland Place Mobsters. Yeah. Yeah. And TLC was just like bubbling, like just going kabum. ABC was doing their thing and stuff.

And so I ended up meeting him at a studio there. And we hit it off instantly I told him I was a songwriter I didn't say singer Because I thought songwriter was just more You know Serious about her shit Right

And I played him some of my little songs I'm a little demo tape and shit One of which was Narcissa cutie pie at the time And Some other stuff that was on there And we just hit it off And I knew that he was from Atlanta And we stayed in touch

And he was like I'm really, really, going to be hitting you up so we can do some stuff. And I was kind of like, yeah, whatever. And then I just knew that it was time for me to do something different and leave Nashville, because I was just down there, kind of pulled a post, kind of hustling, feeling real out of place, having like all these, you know, grandiose ideas and dreams for myself, but knew that they weren't going to be realized in Nashville. So I left. And then my girlfriend went to Atlanta, and I kind of went down there with nothing. And just,

just never came back. Where was your first place in Atlanta? I'm just curious. I lived in a place called Peachtree Hills. Well, that was my first place by myself. That was after I got him a record deal. But me and the girlfriend that I moved down there with and Martin Luther, I don't know if y'all Yeah, Martin.

Seriously? Martin Luther. Amir, you know Martin Luther, don't you? Of course, you know. Yes, of course. And I said the brother Trey Rav and who was my boyfriend at the time. And then two other sisters, it was seven of us. And we lived in this apartment on Bufa Highway.

Yeah, you know we're in. Real world. Yeah, it's actually working at a strip club on Buford Highway. Which is a goal club? You know what? Highway strip club. That's on Piedmont. Go club.

How did you get to work? Wait, a highway strip club? It's called Bucher. It's a street. That's called a truck stop later. Not in Atlanta. Blue Flame across the street from the truck stop, though. In Atlanta?

Right. Hell yeah. Yeah. Flame is definitely still open. Go Club, of course. course not. It's a regular club, just regular at this point. Didn't know the mob. There's no longer. Addresses of those places?

It's Atlanta, honey. Just step off the plane. But we all lived together again, Temple Hallmark. Wow. Seven. That's crazy. Seven, yeah. That was at the top of 93. And so then I remember breaking up with the guy that I was loving so at that time and feeling so heartbroken. And I was just like, this is the worst thing. ever happened, I must be about to get a record deal. Because if this is the worst, the best thing they could happen would be that I would get a

record deal and probably like about a month, probably about a month later. I got a call from Dallas and he asked me to come to the studio and he was like, come write with me. When I went out, they played a few songs, one of which would be Find Me and one of which would be Sunshine and the Rain. And I just wrote to him. And of course, I'm still there as a writer, not as a... As an artist, as a singer.

You know, I'm still just kind of wanting to do that. But then after we heard how the tune sounded, he was just like, Keep your kids. Don't you want to do this? And I was just kind of like, yeah, I guess I do. You know, we listen to Sunshine and the Rain. probably, and I'm not exaggerating, we probably listen to that probably 50 times, right,

just over and over and over and over after it was done. And that's what kind of both let us know, like, yeah, we need to move forward on this. This is something kind of else. So was there any direct planning? Because, I mean, there's really, I mean, it's kind of up in the air on who planted the flag first. But, I mean, you definitely weren't under the current status quo of what music from Atlanta was supposed to be. Right. I mean, you weren't in a TLC umbrella, nor were you under Brownstone.

No. So. And I was in a no man's land. And I felt like, and I could tell when someone's like trying hard to be contrary, like, you You know, just, you know, where everything is well thought out and well plotted to. Right. But it didn't feel like that to me when I heard it. Right.

Like, I knew it was different, but I couldn't quite call it. So, I mean, what was just the planning like? There wasn't any planning. None. We just did it. And we did it in about two months. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really saying that.

Yeah, a month, maybe two. So at the time when Dallas called you to work, you hadn't signed the deal to EMI yet? I signed the deal with EMI through him. Ah, okay. That came later. That came with him. Yeah, because I was signed to him as an artist. Under Rowdy?

Actually, under Limp, which was his imprint on EMI. Routy was through EMI. And Rowdy was through Arresta. I mean, he had Routy. Routy was on Arrista, though. And then Limp was on EMI. It was me and Shades of Lingo. Shades of Lingo.

Yeah, that Joe Errs. Somebody, maybe one other person, but one other at. But yeah, we were the only ones that were at EMI. But there was no plan. Like there was no, the only prerequisite that I had was, I wanted live instruments. That was the only thing I came and I was like, you know, you're well known for, you know, your beat, you know, these R&B beats and stuff.

But that's not what I do. That doesn't really resonate with me as cool. But for what I want to do, I need the shit to be live. And if it's not live, it needs to be freaked in some sort of way that it's suddenly he was like, hell yeah. Well, I was just going to ask just

the question I always had, how do y'all sell that record? Like, what was it like taking it to EMI? Because even now, I mean, 20 plus years after this release, it sounds like nothing else. Like, it still is in the league of its own. So, like, how do you sell that in 94? In 94.

Or impossibly. You know, you could go at the meetings that I had at the labels. Everybody was like, wow, shit is fucking great. How do we sell it? Was it Gary? Gary was dad. Gary Harris? Yeah.

Gary Harris was, I don't even remember. Damn, I don't even remember what department Gary worked in back then. Ain't I? Gary is the first cut. But Gary wasn't. Dave Gossett was. my ANR got. Dave Gossip.

With the bullshit demos. Yeah, because Dave spent my time with you. Dave was with you. Mr. Dave, right? That's,

oh, no, no, no. No, no, that's, I'm thinking that's somebody different. No, Dave Gossip was my, Dave, and at that time, Dave had maybe, maybe he'd done the ANR from maybe, like, vanilla ice or somebody

at the time and, like, a few other people. Like, he had ANR has some big projects. Well, Black Sheep. Black Sheep, he did. He signed, Gossip. signed the roots to Mercury. I never knew that. Oh, wow.

When... I didn't know that. Yeah, and the contract had... They misspelled all of our names on the contract, so made it null and void. Wow. In that 72-hour period... That's how Giffing snatched it. That they were making a new contract for us.

Geffin came in the last minute, like, ch-ching. And so we went to Gephut instead. Wow. And Dave Gossett never talked to me again. Well, Dave... Dave was good to me while I was there, but Dave was so, I just remember what I remember about Dave most distinct,

is that the fact that Pendlein vibe did not get his proper shot and his fair shake for how much he put into it, it really broke his motherfucking heart. It broke his heart to the point where he did step up to the music. Yeah, wow. I haven't heard from after that. Mm-hmm. He was just like, I can't even like, fuck.

All this shit. You know. Now, guys, it's just been chilling, living, you know, a cool civilian life. As I call it. A civilian life. You step away from this shit. But, and I love him to this day because he wrote really hard for him. We were just kind of all, we didn't realize that there would be a machine to contend with.

I know I didn't. I just thought that I'm doing some shit. I recognize that ain't nobody doing what I'm doing. what could be so hard about selling it? Like, isn't it, what's the hard sell if you put something in front of someone? If it's great, yeah.

If it's great, and if they've not seen it before, won't they instantly be enamored with it and curious about it and won't it? Like, ain't that how to fuck it go? Absolutely not. And then I remember saying, you know, well, put me on the road. Just put me on the road.

I want to perform. Put me on the road. If you put me on the road, the people will come. They wouldn't do that. Oh, so they wouldn't give you two support. They wouldn't give me to a support. They were like, no, we're going to really try to push the radio. Here we are in 1994.

They're trying to push sunshine in the fucking rain. Up against Brownstone and, yeah, and black girl. And I remember very clearly them saying to me, too, if this was just a little bit more like, what's the 4-1-1? That's what I was about to ask you. Who were the contemporaries at the time? It was married. Yeah, Mary, yeah.

So what's the 4-1-1? It was, like, super huge. And everybody fucking loved me, me included. Love that album. Let me ask, who, because they always do this. Because usually, like, we'll come in on a Monday and they'll be like, all right, sit down on the couch, guys. I'm going to play you some remixes, just some ideas and see if you guys like it. And then it'll be like 12.

There's so many distortion of static remixes like 12 of them that never made it to the light of day. So, like, who were they trying to match you with like, oh, let Eric Server remix your thing. Well, because Dallas was there, they weren't really doing a lot of that. They were just kind of like. Because he had the magic touch. Because he had the magic touch at that time. So they weren't really doing that. He was really trying to push it from a standpoint of y'all got to trust me on this.

Like we got to, like I'm telling you, this is, you know. And they just weren't, they couldn't understand how to do it. And, you know, it wasn't really about, like, because it was several, you know, rock bands that I was on the label with. All of them had to a support. All of them was out on the road. They was just fucking getting started. I didn't understand why I couldn't handle on to a support. And why I couldn't go on the road where I wasn't.

important for me to build my fan base like that. And it just wasn't looked at for, it wasn't looked at like that. By then the death of the black band had really kind of already, you know, occurred except for just these few concrete roses like y'all. And men condition, the roots. And men condition. And Tony, Tony, Tony. Like the black band had been reduced. It had been gone. It was done. So the idea of that even at that time, and they were like, if you go out and you do shows with dad and I was like a dad. I ain't performing no fucking dad. I need a band.

You know, my band that I had. But at that time, too, I was rolling with a larger band. And Dallas was on keys and Colin was on. Well, see, that was later. That was after. And he joined. He was on Fishpard here. But that was later.

Like when Pendlein vibe, though, it was like Dallas and Colin Wolf. Oh, wow. It was. What? Colin was on bass. Column's on bass. All R&B cats are doing, that's crazy. Like their day job is feeding the machine.

But this is their, this is what I want to do. Yeah, this is what I want to do. And that's kind of been also, that's been a lovely bright spot over the course of my career is that people do like to come and work with me when they want to make a departure from kind of what they're used to doing. Or they'll bring me in and be like, I want you on what I do. And I'm like, fine. You know, I can do that too.

But a lot of people will come and be like, I want to just. do some different shit, I want to work with you. And I like that. I like to be that haven for people. I'm cool with that. But anyways, Dallas and them were in the band. It was about, probably about eight of us at the time. And that just won't on work.

Three backgrounds things, they weren't going to pay for all that shit. Eight? Yeah, at the time. Why that's about eight of us? Because it just, it had to be the fullness of the sound at that time. I hadn't tapped into my, I hadn't tapped into being able to feel comfortable enough with something more stripped down. I figured that out by the second album.

Once I started working on me with cleansing syndrome with Fishbone, and even though it was a lot of them in the band, I was able to zero in more on rhythm section and what that meant. So I was able to zero in on that drum, that bass, that guitar, and get from that what I needed. And so for a number of years, that's all I toured with was just drums,

bass, guitar, and it was just super fucking rocking, you know, and then that became more of a home place for me to the point where I really didn't want to too tough fuck with nothing outside of that, you know, particular setup. What was, oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Oh, what was the transition? So after pendulum vibe dropped and then you started working on amoeba cleansing. Well, wait, there's a stop in between.

We got to ask about freedom. Nerd back. Oh, damn. Yeah, we didn't go there. We driven. We also got to talk about the impact that Pendlein Vipe had on a certain. Yeah. Triple new battle.

We're going to get the match, but I wanted to get freedom first and then get the match. Okay. So could you talk about the Freedom Project? Sure. Freedom came about from apparently the people from Panther, the film at the time, I guess made Pollydor. It was PolyGram. Polygram. Polygram.

I don't hell of throw it back with the Polydore. Polydra. Polygram. Polygram heard freedom on the whole music when they were calling up to the studio to talk to Dallas. And when they heard it on the whole music, this is what I was told. The shit could be a fucking lot.

They heard it sounds really great. It's a story. They heard it on the whole music and decided that that's what they wanted to use for the soundtrack. And then they had this idea that they would, you know, bring in every black female artist that was working in R&B at the time. It was like the female you will know. It was like the female you will know.

Right. And, geez, everybody was there. But when I got that call, that that's what they wanted to do and that all those women were going to be on there. I just remember being like, like, this is incredible, you know? And then it was like breathing some more life into pendulum vibe.

It was like a good consolation for how heartbreaking it was, you know, for it to have not done what I thought it was going to do and for it to not have been accepted the way I really thought that it would be accepted and stuff. And so it shed another light for me on kind of what it means to have like critical acclaim because I didn't really understand that concept at the time either. But doing that let me know because then the ladies, that was a really powerful experience because all those ladies that I met that day, I still have, you know, a tremendous amount of respect for. You know, and they still have a tremendous amount of respect for me.

And some of them have gone on, you know, to ascend to, you know, crazy commercial successful heights. And it's never been another moment like that since with a group of black female singers. I don't female-wise. Did they have a title for it? Like Black Men United was the You Won't Know. Right. What was the female version of it called? You know what it was?

Various artists. Like we are the world. You'd be looking for that shit in Africa. No, we are the world with the USA for Africa. USA Fabrica, yeah. That should say various artists. And then, so I remember you tell me, so the Sweet Honey and the Rock thing, you got, yeah, like, I didn't, I didn't even know, I thought it was your song.

I didn't know it was a Sweet Honey and Roast. Oh, yeah. Another heartbreak. So, yeah, that was, that blessed my little heart. Just, just baby just out there trying to sing something. She ain't knowing nothing about no logistics going on. And she just getting pounded, left and right. So my album, so Pendlein vibe opened up with, I'm going to stand.

I saw Sweet Honey. My mom took me to see Sweet Honey in the Rock at Fish Chapel when I was in seventh grade, and it changed my life. And I decided from that point, professionally when I would do music, whatever project I came out with for Sweet Honey in the Rock, something by Sweet Honey in the Rock would be the first thing

that I would have on my record. I would cover it in some way. So once I got, once I got the deal and started making the album, I was like, I'm going to put, I'm going to stand on this record. And I had it cleared, I cleared it for pendulum. But again, polygram hearing the shit on the hold music, they're thinking, they had no, they're just thinking it's mine.

So they weren't even using it initially. There ended up being so many women on the song that they didn't have enough room. to do features for all the artists. And so that's how they decided. Well, we're just going to add that beginning part to the song. And how the fuck am I supposed to know if the people at Polygram, like, got their paperwork shit together and got clearance from Sweet Honey and the Rock. Well, turns out they never got clearance.

Nobody fucking got clearance in Bernie Johnson Reagan's suit. But what does it have to do with you personally, though? Just because I was a writer? She's named in the suit. I'm named in the suit. So basically they took the interlude that was before Freedom. Right. And Mavam made it into a whole song.

So for the optic, for the video and for the other, because who ended up being on the beginning of that Vanessa Williams, SWV, in Vogue maybe? High profile. Cha-ching, chiching, you know, it was like all these. High-profile. High-profile, you know, at the time, like super duper. But I ended up getting a suit.

And, man, it hurt my phone. fucking feelings. And it was just so unfab. It was just like, how does that happen? How do I have to take the fucking hit for this shit? Like, I don't have them to do with that. You know. Did you ever even get a chance to talk to her?

Right. To Ms. Bernie, I did not. And she's a fantastic, awesome daughter to Toshi, who's badass musician and composing. Uh-huh. Toshi. Toshi. Tosci Reagan.

Ragan? Nuh. What? That's Dr. That's Dr. Reagan's daughter. Say, mom. Whoa.

And I don't know, Toshi and I have a lot of mutual, mutual sister friends. But even she I've never met in person. But I remember kind of trying to do a little bit of a child to Dr. Regan back in the day. And she was like, no. Oh, that's a man's family. Maybe he can bring y'all together. I'm always, I let it go. For 2018, can you not throw me under the bus or my own show, please?

Is that a bus thing? We never said that out loud? She isn't the one that's the cousin. Oh, okay. There's a cousin of mine in the group. I don't even know. I haven't met her either. Oh, you have a cousin, sweetheart, and the wrong?

Don't put that gun away, please. I know. Bear my face. But I just always figured that it would, you know, she got to know by now that that child didn't have nothing to do with that shit. I know she'd know. And I just, you know, I kind of charged it to the game. I was like, I know I'll be able to me.

Dr. Reagan one day and it'll be all good. Wow. I'm sorry that happened to you. Yeah, that was fucked up. All right, so let's bring up Madonna. This is going to be a lot of those stories, so let's just go for it. Get the Kleenex. All right. So go with Bill.

Oh, yeah, I was just going to, how did Madonna find out about the pendulum vibe? Probably. because she was working with... My guess is Guy. I'm sorry. Oh, Siri. It could be that. Guy is always her ear to the street.

It could be that. And I'll say this too. I think any people of that particular ilk at that time knew who I was because the first person that reached out to me that was fucking with me was Lenny. Crabbitz. Oh, okay. Makes sense.

Which is how he in Dallas ended up me. but Lenny reached out like you know who is this what is this sunshine in the rain who is this girl I want to meet her I want to meet her you know and he called the record label found me invite me like out with he

and his friends I just remember being like well fuck well wait weren't y'all kind of label meets you're up virgin virgin big old umbrella back then kind of yeah it wasn't too hard not too much of a stretch but you know right it's just a little old me and then it grab it's you know um and that was fun and it was great to be like acknowledged and great to be you know uh you know acknowledged sight you know seen for for my craft and i think through him i think he kind of let a lot of people know yeah um

about what was happening at that time. And then Madonna would end up reaching out for Dallas to produce bedtime stories. Uh-huh. Oh, that, nah, ah. Aha. Oh, damn. Yeah.

Taste the soup. I want to. Damn, no, I'm just saying now it makes sense. Because even with, I'm not sorry. Human nature. Human nature, I was like, Yo, that's, I feel like, some joy shit.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she definitely, you know, heard the album and definitely loved it, and they definitely had to go back in to do a little restructuring. You know. But she ended up helping you out, though.

She was, oh, hell yeah. So, it wasn't like beef or anything. Oh, no, no, no. No, that motherfucker, that made a phone call Steve Mazzell, and I've got the Calvin Klein campaign. Yeah. Oh, no.

I'm not. Really? Yeah. Oh, shit. There ain't no hateeration in the dance arena. She was cool. I never had any issues with Madonna. She was actually very, very cool.

Like, you know, the times that we hung out. She actually mentioned one day, like, doing a show together. No, not that part. The Calvin Klein thing is interesting because it's like, yes, that's great. You're modeling, not singing. Right. You know what? I see where you're going.

Right. I just want to remind you. We're also a Maverick associated. That's cool. She'll know that where it was. I just remember myself. Oh, okay, cool. We're not trying to throw salt on the game.

I'm not. Hell, no. That was real, Madonna, I see your game. I peeped it. No, I just, they often retweet our shows out. Oh, they do. Appreciate it. Shout out to that.

We love y'all. Joy still singing out there, so if you. We love y'all. But no, she didn't reach out on any tip like that. I don't know that anybody ever reached out on any tip like that. You know what? Not that we could afford to do anything with you at the time, but definitely Gary was saying that

you were someone that we should work with. I mean, just at the time, I'll say before we realized what had to happen. And also you two found your own family tree with the dungeon family. Like when you're alone,

I realize that you need a group of people. You basically need five to seven people that do what you do and be in a community. So, well, I mean, I guess that's what you were basically going with Fishbone with the next project? Yeah, I did more so with them, I think, than, yeah.

Like, I definitely did that with them. And I would collaborate with D.F. You know, and I would go on the road with them. Not as joy, though. Not as an entity. I would go, you know, as music director or go as singing backs or go as, you know, doing things of that nature. When Goody first went out.

A little bit later on, I would do their music direction and stuff for them because Lo and I just had kind of a, we knew it each other like. Right. And I could, you know, get the shit together and make sure everything was good for them. But not as a joy entity, no, always in a more of a supporting kind of role, you know. Which is fine, you know, which is whatever, because I would still do my own shit. you know, whenever I would do my own shit. So I got to ask

in the most diplomatic way possible. Yes. Because we have a lot of mutual people in common. Yes, we do. But you and I also have a lot of experiences in common. And I'll say that even with whatever my weird journey is

in music, I always still felt like the bridesmaid and never the bride. And there is no feeling like the feeling of you thinking, okay, this is going to be the moment, this is going to be the year, always in January. Like, this is going to be, okay, this is the year, we're going to get together, and then someone just, yeah, you're like, all right, cool, cool,

next year, just keep working. But how, I would like to know. And again, I'm not, I've never used the show as a gotcha, got to journalism or that sort of thing. But you are literally one of the people of my contemporaries that I could possibly think has had the same sort of tortoise in the hair journey. Sure. So what is that feeling with once the year start to develop? And suddenly people are open to alternative ways of CNR&B.

And I'll say her name with Erica and everything. and you not getting your turn. Like, how do you... Well, I think turn is... I've set tears over many a Rolling Stone cover. Sure. I've had panic attacks. Sure.

I've thrown many a coffee mug at, you know. I get it. Steve? Damn, that mix! Yeah, so... Here's the thing. One thing I've been pretty well. blessed with is the ability.

Like when we, in the beginning of this interview, when I told you from very little, I've known my shit ain't like everybody else's shit. So the journey is not like everybody else's. So if, and I mean and I really, really realize

that early on. So, and another thing that I don't do and which is probably why I've been able to keep a lot of my Zen and my sanity in check is that I don't do a lot of I'm not a comparer. I don't compare myself to other people.

I don't compare what I have going on in my life or what they have going on in their life. I just don't do it. And this is from the jump of your life. This is from my life. This is not me as an artist. This is me as a human being. Because when we started this conversation,

you said something to me that was very ill for somebody that was your age. You said that when old boy broke up with you, it was one of the saddest parts of your life, but you knew that you were about to get a record deal. I was already clear on what checks and balance. For a lot of people, it takes some books, some spiritual learning, some things, you know, to really realize that moment. No, no, no.

No book has taught me my, nothing has taught me better than my experience and my living and my making it through. But what keeps you sane and balanced? What keeps me saying imbalance is that I'm still here and I know I got shit to do. That's what keeps me saying in balance. That's real. It is. I believe, you know what it is, class? Here it is in a nutshell.

Genuinely, I believe my best work is in front of me. Genuinely. So if I didn't believe that, then I could be mad, and I could be like, well, fuck, so-and-so. And so-and-so-god-down had my goddamn shoes on that one time. So-and-so-so-sound-like me on that, and that bitch knows she got-down sample that, and that nink know he got down.

No. My contemporary, my peers get mad like that about certain shit. And I have to calm them now. Like, why y'all? I mean, but why are y'all so hell being? on comparing me to the next motherfucker. Why are you so hell been on that? It's not...

Because they're projecting, they're projecting their shit on it. And it's not what it is. I'm right with it. If I did not believe then my best work and my finest, finest self was not in front of me. If I didn't believe that, then I wouldn't be fucking doing it.

And it's literally that simple. It don't mean the shit don't hurt or don't. You know, it doesn't mean that I'm not affected by those things, it just means that I'm rooted in something that anchors me outside of all the external noise. But how fast did it take you to realize that?

For me, like, I'll be honest with you. Last year. I'm really truly not lying to you. I'm not lying to you. And I'm not even saying to the point where it's like, oh, I had to watch all my contemporaries fall or break up or that sort.

of thing. Right. But, you know, even though, like, I still don't know where this place is, where it's like, okay, I get the right books and teach class and do a radio show. But I definitely feel like, I knew that my biggest fear started in 1992 was whether or not I'd still be here in 1999. That was, like, some super future shit. Not feel you.

And I'm not even talking about, like, 2005 or 2015 or even 2025. but you know I know four years is a rap career like I mean that's it's rap it's like high school like literally you got four years to get your money and then after that it's kind of like

you know but I think I came to the conclusion that if Tarika and I really got what we wish for you know along the way you know whatever like the Bentley or whatever the bitch is the right right right we would have been assholes and dead I would have been dead yeah we would have been

I was too wild. Like inside of it's way too, way too free, way too well. I would do, because I'm a creature of desire. I do what the fuck I want to do. So, and because I'm that way, I would have just, there ain't no telling what the hell. Lana Ritchie, he says that. I couldn't, I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't have had it like that. But mine also sold like a hundred million units. Well, no, he did. But he was saying, like, he was saying, like, the question is like, you know, can you survive your success? That's the thing. Like, you can, whatever, because whatever it is you into, if it's girls, if it's dope, if it's whatever. you're going to get all of that.

That's right. All the dope. All the holes, all the cars, whatever it is you're into. So with success, the question becomes, can you survive that shit? And if you get it too early, you know, that's why a lot of people don't, I think. I agree. I would have, I definitely, I didn't. The road had to be tempered.

I just, I really look at it because now where I am in my life now, you know, shit, some people. be looking at me like a damn shaman at this point you know what I'm saying and my friends who you know do have to be under the lights you know all the time um you know can find you know some comfort and being able to come and and and sit with me or talk to me and to to get grounded you know and where they are and and to have and to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to gain some clarity about where they are. So kind of what ended up happening as a result of all these experiences and me having to process and digest all these different things that have happened to me in career, things

I've seen, whatever, it's really turned me into an A-1 fucking therapist without the doctorate. But A-1, like, A-fucking one, like really, really- I'll be calling you. I was about to say I'm having your door is open. Please do. Because you could not want to share that info. Please do. And that's kind of...

You put it in a book? Where I could, but I... You can't touch everybody. You can't read? Yeah, it's a little different. It's a little different from me. I need something for the everyday man because that what you... That's some...

Yeah, it's a major. It's like metahuman and shit you're talking. Yeah, it's just... And that's, and those are things that I'm, you know, those are journeys that I have to get suited up for with being able to put things into books and do things like that because my mind I'm so like

just come see me yeah come see me and sit on my couch like you know what I'm saying like fuck a book fuck a seminar fuck all of that okay I was thinking about everybody else but I'll come over your house

yeah I'm always thinking of everybody else I'm just like my team we're sending my ear to your house to your house too I'm about the tears for a month yeah because we're about to finish

our buffet this week So yeah, you got the muff off, you're about to go therapy with Jane. I will take it camp. And I'm quite a, you know, I'm, you know, consigliati. Nice. Can I bring my medicine with me too? You can bring your medicine. Thank you.

And I will have my own medicine and you may bring your medicine or share medicine as well. No, Joy, you're not supposed to share prescriptions. That's called drug abuse. I just want to do some drugs. You don't need prescriptions, no, both. So, Joy. Yes, sir. Okay.

So the. The tenure for the Tim Jarees sweet badass song, the fishbone period. Okay. Did I pronounce that right? Oh, the tenure? Is that what you were saying? The 10 year? You said chim chim chiri.

Chim chim chis. Chimmy churie. Chimmy chri. It's chim chim chimps. Chimmy. Chimmy. Oh, I thought it was Tim Trey. Like the...

No, not Mary Poppins. Yeah, I was thinking of that. You think of the methadem. Chimmini, Jim Chimmini. Chimmini. Freak the flow and free. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Methanman was quote Mary Poppins. Yes, yes he was. Jim Jim Jee. Nicky, I didn't watch Mary Poppins. You never seen Mary Poppins? You were never told me to see Mary Poppins either, but I knew that. You're really going to love it if you watch it. Yeah, you're like, especially now.

Y'all think I plan on watching Mary Poppins in the next. Niggin, you watch all of friends. Yeah, you better watch Mary Poppins. Dude, I had nothing to do. I was in Maui alone. You could have watched Mary Poppins. You watched Friends instead. Hurry up what they do the black version.

The randomness of it. It would have been over sooner. The randomness of it, you're going to check it out one time late night. You totally are. You're going to be like, all, I watch Mary Poppins. Thank you. Anyway, pronounce this fishbone album. Chim Chim's badass.

Chim's badass revenge. Y'all just looked at me like, you don't know what this is? No, no, no. I thought you were saying Chimmy Churry because Chimmy Churry sauce is like the sauce you put on steak. So I was like, look, you're talking about steak sauce.

Like, you're hungry for real. I was like, nodding. Fishbone ain't got no one of what I'm called chimchree salt. It was too fucking funny. So we actually. Not many people, well, not many people know. I think one third of our third album,

Iledove Half-Life, we recorded at DARP. That's when I met you. Yeah, and I was going to say, how did you guys pull, I'm about to say Norwood? Angelo. Angela, away from that goddamn Thurman, Mr. Sherman.

Well, actually, we'll hear you. the deal. He practiced that shit like seven hours a day. He did. And that it was newly discovered for him at the time. Oh, you think? And it's still a part of,

like once it came and never left. Now that's still a part of the Fishbone show. But he's, you know, masterful with that one of like, and now back of 97, he wouldn't answer questions. Like,

where's the bathroom? Because he would just be there like, hmm, woo. No, he loved it. He loved it so deep and heart. So, Just being in that chaotic environment, what was that like?

Wonderful. Oh, okay, you embraced that. I embraced it. I'm not good at chaos. My kind of freedom and chaos. And see, I am. I don't do well with order. Oh, man.

I can do it with order because I grew up after three weeks. I'm anal retentive. I'm disciplined. I follow the rules. Oh, no, no, no, no. You're the worst with me. No, no, no, no. And I'm not following the rules.

I just recognize that the rules, you know, I'm not going to yield so easily to someone else's control. And I'm not going to be rambunctious or fucked up about it. But I will, if I want to, find some wiggle room. Find some wiggle room. I'm going to have to make some, or else I can't be here. Oh. It's like that.

So I got to Jedd our mind trick you. If you don't, Joe, baby, come in a minute, one second. It's four in the morning. Talk to me for two hours while I'm trying to sleep. Come talk to me. But I'm also super respectful and super nurturing of other people's ways and how other people are. So I have a lot. My mama is, you know, a little, she got a little anal thing a little bit with her.

You know, my auntie's got a little anal thing where they're real neat, real orderly, real bottle of rules. And I appreciate that deeply. It's just not me. So I can do it for a time. I just can't exist in it in perpetuity. How many beatings you get before they were just like, fuck it. I got my ass whoo. I'm about to say.

Yeah. I got my ass woo. All I heard was ass whoop-wiping. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I had a lot growing up. And just after a point, they was just like, child, this is just how she going to be. But that time period with them was really wonderful.

I had met Angelo. He was doing a Dr. Mad vibes thing in Atlanta. And I went to it. And I was so excited because, of course, I'm a fan from, you know, from. There's Southern California days. Yes. And I remember seeing them on Soul Train. I remember them performing Freddy's Dead and Everyday Sunshine on Soul Train.

It was fucking killer. And so I met Angelo there and he was super funny and insane and awesome and wonderful. And he was like, man, we just lost our deal with Sony. They had Sony or CBS at the time because the last album they didn't, I think maybe give a monkey a brain. Right. Which is fucking great thing. And he was like, so fishbone doesn't have a deal. And I was like, what?

How does fishbone not have a deal? And I said, you were the bridge to Dallas? Yes. Wow. So I said, y'all going to have a fucking record deal. Y'all can do that shit here in Atlanta. He was like, I was like, we're going to, we're going to studio. So I took Antelota to me Dallas.

And of course Dallas is like Fucking fishbone dude Like what the fuck Like he's going You know Being cool Because he's a little quiet Kind of reserved cat back then

Still kind of is But he was real kind of quiet And shot back then But he was freaking out On the inside And And they started dialogue about it And he made that

He pushed that shit through Pretty quick Because once he found that he could really do it He was just like You know So Airst really pushed that forward And the guys ended up spending a tremendous amount of time in Atlanta over the next year.

So here's Fishbone. You know what I said? In Atlanta, like during like 90, oh, 95. In the Croater. Yeah. They at the dungeon. You know, they meet U.GK. Because, I mean, Pimsy shouts them out on riding dirty.

At the end, he shouts out of Fishbone. Because he spent, I mean, because, you know, they were, we were very good friends, you know, at the time. Blending Pimp was like our family when giving out we're married. And they ended up just spending a lot of time with them too Because they were just around So here it's like UGK, it's Fishbone It's Cass, it's Goody, it's, you know, me It's like it was just this, you know, bag damn

Describe what working with Dallas is like Because, I mean, again, you know, what was his first joint? Mr. DJ with Joyce Dorella? With Joyne. With Joy Sterlingerla Herbie, yeah. Yeah, so I mean And he was a child, you know, he was in high school age. Yeah, but to have a,

that range of being a new Jack proprietor. To TLC, to go into the new soul, like, sort of swim into that. And then to go all over the place. Right. How was he able to, because he's churning out the hits for everybody at this point. How is he able to devote time to you, to them, to TLC, to Madonna, to, like, just keep all of this. It was a lot. I can remember it being a lot for him back then.

Was it a lot for you, though? I mean, in terms of like, hello, are you picking them? No, and it wasn't that way for me only because, like, Dounson and I, like, the same age, same exact age. And how things were structured with us back then. It was a little more family dynamic-ish. So it was a little more like, that's my partner. If his mama's cooking on Sunday, I'm going over to the house, like, which he would have everybody come over to his mom's house on Sunday. But, like, there would do these regular occurrences.

If he's at the studio and he's working, I'm going by the studio, or he's going to hit me. I'm at the studio. I didn't necessarily, I didn't have problems with accessibility with him. No one did. He wasn't an inaccessible person at the time if you were working with him. He could get ghosts like, you know, the best of whoever. But I didn't have that problem and I didn't see him thinking back like shit, having you just call out all that shit like that was like, damn, he was young as fuck back then

and he was doing all that shit. Like I hadn't even thought about it like that. So, shit, I guess he handled, you know, as best he could. and did a pretty decent fucking job of it. Because he was working on amoeba cleansing syndrome. We were working on that at the same time they were doing Chim Chim. It was at the same time. Right.

And then whatever else he was doing, because at that point, too, you know, everybody's calling you for these individual tracks. And, you know, you got to work on remixes and you're doing all kind of shit for everybody. I didn't have any accessibility problems with him. He was great to work with. He was adventurous.

He was rooted in soul and funk. He was, you know, a James Brown student, you know, an old soul student, a P-Funk student. So we had a lot in common. He was just doing this R&B, you know, he had gone heavy into this new urban R&B sound, but his roots were in the shit that I fucked with. So it was always, you know, a pleasure, very easy, you know, to work with him. Was that Amoeba? Was that on EMI?

Yes. It was supposed to be. Well, it was supposed to be. Amoeba cleansing is like my black album. Yeah, you got to tell us the story of that. It was never commercially released. What happened? So, EMI fold, about two weeks before Amoeba was supposed to come out,

EMI folded. And the label prior to that, they were with it. They were like, we're going to put it out. We're going to put it out. Okay, cool. And then the label folded. So then it was like, they had the video out for ghetto superstar.

And the video for ghetto superstar had just dropped. Oh, no, it hadn't come out yet because here's what ended up happening. Once EMI folded, Dallas hurried up and got another situation together with this other cat. I can't even remember. Maybe V2, not V2. I don't want to get that wrong. Was it, no, I know you're talking about because he put out, was that the LaSette Young Sadden Blue? Wow.

Did he put that? That was on Free World. Free World. Free World Entertainment. Yeah. Free World, though, was a collaborative. I had that single in college. That nerd shit, Jay.

Whoa. I got the Amoeba cleansing sampler. Oh, wow. Yeah, the legit one. Look at you. The one when I'm so tired on there. Does it have I'm so tired on there? I don't think that's on there, but it's the one with the pink cover.

The pink. Yeah, yeah. Maybe it is on. Maybe it is on that. I'm so tired might be on that. Because I'm so tired was a lot of people that have that because I wasn't on like the big, the more widely distributed in San Francisco. People have the one when I'm so tired.

They're like, I got the one when I'm so tired. Yeah, it was like the college sampler, I think it was called. Lesette Free World. So he ended up hooking up a little deal real quick, put that together, got some money behind shit, and then we shot the video for Ghetto Superstar. And then Ghetto Superstar was really about to take off.

It was doing well. It had been kind of pulled into that whole MTV record with play list when they would do little R&B shit back then and whatever. and then Free World folded. Damn. Jesus. And then I was just like, there's a root on my life.

There's a fucking curse on me. There has to be this is some bullshit. No, no, no. You were like, this is my journey. Because that's not the way. Did you not say it again. I said, you were like, this is my journey, though, because that's not the way that we.

But, you know, even on our journey, we got to take a knee sometimes. Okay. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what year did you have your daughter? And that's what I was leading up to. I had just had Kipzaya. Okay. Keepe's born in 96. Okay.

So the first iteration of amoeba cleansing syndrome began before Keepey was born. And the second iteration, because I went back and added, you turn me on. God, I'm sorry. She is 21 years old. Wait a minute, wait a minute. You just said that she's always going to be. She's 20 years old. Baby, keep.

Two to me. She's 21. She's 21 years. She's 21. Yeah, grown, miveling. She's going to be two forever. I know. I remember working at Clark Atlanta Radio and you walking in with a baby.

That is, I feel, I mean, I was born in the 90s, so it's weird. Yeah. You're only. Oh, only. Couple years old. Edit, edit. You only couple years older to keep. But yeah, Cape is 21.

She'll be 22 in June. God. But, so yeah, then I went back in and I added, you turn me on a little bell cover, Time and Smile, went back in and did something with Colin Wolf. And then I added Ghetto Superstar. Ghetto Superstar came later. That was something I added to Amoeba cleansing for them to be just on some. We don't have that one that we can date the radio.

We just need that one. So we went back in and added that one and there's one I'm missing. I'm sorry. I forget. But, yeah, so it was two, it was before Keep. Dandelion does, maybe? Before and after Keepey. Thank you.

Dandelion does. That was that. That was me on that one. Yeah, that was you. The other nerd. That was you. I'm sorry. So the two, you know, it was before Keepee and after Keepee.

Amoeba cleansing syndrome took a while to come out. I started working on it in 95, and then it actually came out in 97. Well, didn't actually come out. I was finished with it in 97 as it was about to be released everything. All the plugs got pulled. So I just, after that, that's really what made me kind of go deeper

into being more of the wind beneath other people's wings because it was a little too, I didn't know how much I had left in me to get kicked in my chest like that. Shotgun blasted in my chest like that. And then for another ghetto superstar to come out like six months later.

I was trying to. get it out of my head because every time I hear the title, the other one comes in my head and I'm trying to get it out. And when I tell you I don't like this, motherfucking ass to this day? I'm so sorry. O'Pra. I'm hugging you right now. Okay?

I'm hugging you right now. I was never thinking like, is this how y'all going to do it? It's just going to be the blake. Like, it's just going to, it's going to be like this. We ain't even going to hide it. We ain't going to try it. We just gone. And I remember, and it was always these situations where it was.

just enough what you're doing is legal for it to be okay and you can't like sue nobody or do that you know what I'm saying it's only the moral like you just don't doubt what you're going to do

you only have that but you don't have like a legal leg to stand on and shit so you just got to be like shrug wait but we talked about Keith but we didn't talk about her debut before she was even born

and how that I felt like that was a whole history making moment on screen oh you're talking about in DeAngelo's video yes Yes. That was her? That was me.

I mean, she was inside. She was in my belly. Okay, because I was about to say, I thought that was Faith's daughter. No, that's Faith in China. Oh, okay. But then... In a bikini and a sheer, I remember. With a bikini sure moment.

It was a moment. Were you asking? Did you have questions? Yes. Was the bikini, did you say I'm going to do it, but I must be in my bikini? No, I just came dressed. Oh. That was just a regular season.

It was a summer day. No, it was, you're going to be the, you're going to be the bikini. No, it was, you're going to be. They want you to be in a video. And I was like, okay. And I'm going to shut shit down, motherfucker. And I'm going to wear his bikini with this shit dressing him. And this, and what video was this lady?

It was a lady. And I bet you nobody complained to you. And that was also. And that was the day I met Erica. Really? Wow. Because she was in the video too. She was in the video too.

That was before anything of hers dropped. That was her first little. Wow. That's crazy. First seeing, you know, first seeing her on the screen. And that was my first time meeting her. And my first time meeting her. And my first time.

meeting Faith that day too. And Faith was pregnant with little, with Lil C.J. at the time. That's crazy because then the dime in between, what was the video? Was it Erica's video where you were in the car? I just have a visual of. I haven't been in any of any of ease. No, you know what? Who are you thinking? I forgot. No. You're thinking of not. Lucy, Lucy Burrell? No, I wasn't thinking of. Couldn't be that. Because you're in, Don't Mess with my man, right? I am not in Domestic. Wait a minute. Wait. I'm in without you

and you. Those are the only two videos I did. Because, you know, I came in at the tail end. Very end. Just to finish up award season and the tour. That was it. What was that transition?

I feel like you're just the 11th hour. To fix it. Joy, go fix it. I'm the fixer. Yeah. It's like some fixer shit. It really is. Fixer with no drama. Like, deliver and low key.

You ain't end up in flow of tree. Seriously. Yeah. That is your first Words of wisdom. Words are jingle. Damn. I'm sorry.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was your first brilliant moment of comedy on the show. Damn it only took almost two years. No, that was pretty good. That was great. That was good.

I'm surprised. But now, my mom will get a phone call at the 11th hour. You know. That was, I would, you know what? Have you had to say no to a few things? I've had to say no to a lot of things. Who did you say, no, I can't do the project right now, or I'm good?

You know what? Like your weirdest offer? My weirdest offer? Spice girls. My spice girl. That would have been hilarious, though. What's my weirdest offer? I can't even.

I mean, so much damn shit in my brain. I don't know. I don't know. asked me this probably in two hours, and I'd be like, child, it was that one. But right, I can't think of what my weirdest one would be. But I have to say, the stuff that the universe will shoot at me, the universe that it'll be tough, fucked up kind of hard kind of lessons and stuff, but it's not, it ain't nothing that I can't, you know, stand by.

And it ain't nothing that I can't be like, well, you know, I'm going to. always proud of the work. So anything that I've done, I'm still proud of the work, you know, my involvement in it. But I can't really, I can't think right now of what the, what I've turned down where I was like, uh, probably because once I turn something down, I'm through with that and I don't think about that no more. I don't store that no well. But working with, you know, getting a call from Ray, it was cool because I was just like, you know, I'll be on the lips of, my name will be on the lips of some, you know, some folks in the demographic that otherwise absolutely wouldn't know who I was.

So, and he's the homie. But by this point, were you shocked that like, oh, okay. Or is it like, whatever? Like, I mean, are you, I don't mean in a jaded cynical way. And I mean. But is it just like, yeah, okay. It was a job. It was a job.

Like, I looked at it like a job that I can do for now. Like, that's what it looked like. It looked like this is a good temporary gig. And I'm going to do it. And is it weird playing. them back? Because I also forgot that. We toured during the Goodymont period. We did. Yeah. And also, so it's like... I was pregnant then too. Where you have to sort of not, or you kind of have to, is it weird laying in the cut and being a team member? I've been doing it for so long now. Like,

you have to remember after amoeba cleansing syndrome, that really started me to being a little more, to scale back. I wasn't so in pursuit of the spotlight. And I just wanted to. to work. You know what I'm saying? So once I just got to that point, I was just like, I just want to work. And I'm not, so, you know, whatever. And I think for other people, it's far more weird than it is for me because people have these notions of me and what they think I am and how they think I am and all this type of

shit. And so then when they meet me, they're like, they really not like that. Yeah. I think people, and two people have the notion of like what fame or what being a successful successful musician is. Yeah. Like you can be a success and nobody know your fucking name.

Nobody knows who the fuck you are. Yeah. Like shit, you can be getting the checks. And that's what I'm going to know. You know, I don't give a fuck about that other part of fame is not even controllable enough for me to want it. Man. You know, like it doesn't offer freedom.

I'm too, I, I live and die by my freedom. And fame doesn't offer a tremendous amount of freedom. It has perks, but it doesn't. It's enslaving. Yeah, I'm by saying it's the exact opposite of freedom. Yeah, it is. And so I don't, I ain't never been titillated by that particular part.

I've only felt the, I know that when you do good art, the fame tends to come with it. So if I had to endure the fame to produce the good art, then I would do it. But that part of it, uh-uh. So me kind of stepping back and being like, well, I'll just do work with other people. That was a, that wasn't a hard decision to make. That was like, A, I want to work. B, I just ain't mean. I'm tired of all that other part of shit anyway.

And I'm just who the fuck I am. And I'm just going to fucking be that and do that and raise my child. Yeah, if you were famous, I think me and you couldn't have been sitting outside the Denny's or whatever, chilling. Right. We wouldn't have been able to do that. We could have been something totally different. Exactly. And see, I have to be able to sit outside of Denny's with my folks sometimes if I want to.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I have to be able to do that in this life. You miss Sanis here? Who? You miss Denny's? No. No, not at all. It just so happened.

I don't even fuck with him. I was just saying in those moments because he's so, it's opposite in that way. Like, what you're talking about that freedom you might not have like that. Outside of my illustrious apartment, about 12 paces up. You got that fancy Denny's. I have the only denny's in Manhattan. So I'm very familiar. It was like a metaphor for life.

I know, but then I love radio parade sometimes. Anyway. So, yeah, maybe like twice a week. I'm at Denny's connecting. Yeah, thank you. And the other thing, too, I have to say, is that fame is my kind of fame or how I'm famous, you know, my way, how I'm famous.

It's different because people, I don't deal with a lot of, like, foolishness and ridiculousness to other people. Like, people fuck with me because they fuck with me. Not because other people fuck with you. No. People that fuck with me. Fuck with you.

Exactly. You know. And so I don't have. like a fickle, anybody that was my, you know, that came along as a supporter of what I do from Pendleham Five, they still here. You know, I ain't lost no, ain't nobody like, I don't fuck with Joy no-mo, she wet.

Or she don't do whatever. I didn't like that other album and shit, but no, everybody still supports me, stays down, goes out with me, and believes in my ability to continue to produce good work. Yeah, I remember, I mean, when we did the record together for Zoe's album in 2015, I was just still getting in my head.

I was telling my, well, now wife, you know what I'm saying? I was like, joy is on the way to the house. Like, you don't understand. Joy about to be in my house, though. She was like, what, what you be? I'm like, yo, you don't understand. I met her when I was fucking 14 and now she at my house. Like, so just to see that come full circle,

like to meet you when we were at, yeah, you were doing an in-store. I think I like skipped school to come see you, promote Pendlein Vi. It was her and J.Rue. Damn. It was her and J.Roo coming to the store. That was a weird combo. Because it was both E.M.

It was both E.M. Yeah, we were Lavelemaids. And gangstor. I was gangstor. I was gangstabes with them too. And yeah, they came to a store and I was there and we saw it. We were there to see J.Rue and we didn't even know that she was coming. It was just, you know, J.Roo.

We was like, I would go see J. So then she showed up tall with like the orange hair. It was like, who is that, nigga? And so they gave us the sunshine and the rain tape. It was just the single. That was the, it was like the yellow, like orange kind of tape. It was yellow. Yeah, it was the yellow tape.

And we was just like, all right, what is this? We're like, all right, well, I'll check it out. And we took it home. And it had the song on one side. And the instrument on the other? And we used to freeze out from instrument. Yeah, yo. That was it.

I was like, yo. We used to, yo, that instrumental, man. That's what the guys from. D.F. said when I met them, we were sitting in the dungeon, freestyle in your shit. When I came into the studio, they were like, that's the Sunshine of Rain, girl. We've been freestyling over your shit. Wow. I was like, really? Hi guys.

Yeah, man. So, yeah, that was, to go from there to actually be able to sit and co-write and produce a record with Joy like this. And that was a great experience. I enjoyed it. Thank you. Thank you. Joy sat on, like, in my crib. Like, we was just in my crib. She was sitting in a little box and bang that shit out. Right. Living a dream project. And that's so dope. Yeah.

Since we talk about experiences and recording, I just, because in my mind, you were part of the Equimini recording era, right? Were you part of the, no. You came in AT aliens. No. So you came in AT aliens. I was like, like, yeah. Because I feel like at some point we would hear you in backgrounds. Wait, you're on Equimini.

Yeah. I am on the album. I guess I'm saying before that. I guess that's what I would say. She's on AT aliens. Are you asking specifically about Equimini? Is that what you asking? I'm asking about just that time period in Atlanta.

Oh, absolutely. And that feeling. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was there. Yeah. And like from an outsider, it just looked like another world of heaven, I guess, based on the players in that whole situation. And I was just curious from your perspective. Because, again, that's perception.

But what was it really like during that time in Atlanta amongst from... There was a renaissance happening. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You know, at that time. Of sorts. We live for the romantic perception. of it. Yeah, and I know it's not true.

And that's why I know it wasn't that's true. So when you did Sportio to do foolish, like, was it like magical? And you're like, no. Nah, nigga. I said damn three times and I went home. Right. I didn't know. I was at the studio.

It wasn't. So it was deep. I mean, at times it could be there was some magical moments. Yo, okay, you have to tell the story. The reason why you said that you have to tell the story and do the impression of RICO singing you may die. Please. She don't even remember telling me this, but dude.

I don't remember. Oh, God. She was very, very elevated. But it was the story of how Rico had an idea for you may die. Rico always has amazing. Rico Way of organized noise. Rico Way can have amazing ideas about melodies, but Rico Way cannot sing. At all.

Like, not at all. And so he was trying to. Yo, it was so perfect. He was trying to. He was trying to. you know, convey how he wanted the melody to go. And I feel like he was just like, because you know, the melody, you can't be sure.

That's how you said. So, low to get high. And that was actually Peaches. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's a piece. That particular part. But as we're, you know, pieces and I kind of coming up with how we, you know, go and flow with it

and when that week, we're like, oh, ooh, so y'all should do a lie. you can be sure so I'm going to low to get high you may learn to you cry you may die or some shit like that but just completely out of tune but you know what he kind of means

and you know what the music is doing and so you're like okay actual real reek one is He kind of wants it like that. So then we end up, you know, pulling together, get a couple more lyrics out, and then Pete just puts her thing on it, and I put the, you know, the backs. And that's you and Pete singing on that.

Can you tell the babies this significance? I mean, I was in college when I used to see you girls performing and I'm just amazing, but tell people the significance of Peaches to the movement and the music. Well, Wild Peach is a funk rock

band from Dallas Texas comprised of Myrna Screechy Peach Brown and David Wild Brown Peaches passed in 2007

Um Yeah, it's been Overeux. I'm almost 11. Peaches in Atlanta and it was interesting because I met Peaches around the same time that I met Fishbone through the rock lockdown scene because it was a thrive. People don't know that Atlanta had a cool-ass black rock scene happening in the early 90s.

There were lots of different bands, Naked Truth and Wild Peach and Vood Weinstein and Fall for Now and Mobius' trip and loved you. and it was a lot of bands. And because what I did live, even though I was classified as R&B, what I did live translated as something more like funk rock. So I ended up meeting Peaches

and becoming really good friends with her. And she was just like this, she was this incredible performer, incredible writer, incredible vocalist. And it happened to be that we both, bought out really good shipping each other. And we worked really well together. So we started just lacing, you know, people's backs.

And in particular with the guys and the D.F. Because I ended up introducing them to introducing Dave and Peaches to D.F. Really? Yeah. Wow. I don't know it. Yeah. Wow.

I. She's the bridge. I'm the bridge. I am the bridge. Shit. Yeah. You're building movements. For sure.

Absolutely. You know. And so that's how they ended up linking up. And from the initial, you know, like it started off with Peaches' singing backgrounds with me and with a couple of other sisters that would kind of interchange out. Later on, Keisha Jackson would come in and she would end up being a staple there as well later. but it was Peaches and not in the beginning

and that blend and that was vocal just all that shit was killer but Peaches was on the ground level

from the building of things and I bought her with me and once she was you know got in there and then they were able

to check out you know the band for themselves and stuff then everybody just you know they started loving them too but they had already

been doing their wild peach thing on the scene in Atlanta. And they had had like a major record deal with something that didn't. You know one of those things where they damn show didn't know what to do with Peaches there. Damn show didn't. Did they really release anything locally?

They didn't. But they would do shows and they have these incredible ass songs that people still. And I think Wile is going to do a full release of a, I think he's working on something pretty special, I think, for her. And for them. because what they brought to the table freed all of us up because they were also a little bit older than us.

So they had just more, you know, more seasoning on the thing too. But Peaches was a fantastic writer, a fantastic vocalist, a killer fucking vocalist. and unlike, you know, anything before or since. Can I? Yeah, absolutely. She's my sister and I fucking miss her every day. You mentioned something earlier, and I know that a really big influence on your life as far as your music was Betty Davis.

Yes. Could you talk about her influence on you And have you ever gotten to meet her And have a one-on-one and No You never got to meet her? No She's still alive

Yeah she's still alive Yeah she's definitely still here There's a lot Yeah there I mean There's Still talks of Her life

Her bio in the movie Whatever But But she's very Exclusive Yeah She's extremely reclusive So

She's sort of like giving notes to the producers of the movie, like not in front of them and that sort of thing. I think she just wants to remain a mystery. But have you made attempts to try to... Or is that one of the heroes that you don't... I don't ever want to meet my heroes.

You know what? I don't give a shit about that. About the meeting of heroes and things like that. So you would never like to have to sit down with her and just... I would. And that's what I'm saying. I don't care. I don't have any like, oh my God, that's my hero.

And then you meet them and then you're disappointed. No, because I don't know, people, life is fucking crazy. It takes people down through that. Any goddamn thing could happen. Like, for what I've created about you in my mind, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's how you're going to be, and that's fine.

I ain't going to hold it against you. It ain't got shit to do with how bad ass that shit was that you created and influenced shit out of me. But yeah, I haven't talked to her. I would love to one day when the time is right, but I would never want to push that. I wouldn't want none of that. I would only want Ms.

Biddy to do that if that's something she wanted to do. Because I know people have tried to get out. Connect you too. And I'm like, don't. Don't do that. Ms. Betty just need to know I'm out here and that I ride for. Quick backdrop for our listeners that don't know.

Betty Davis, ex-wife of Miles Davis, pretty much, I guess you could say. It was basically, yeah, and sort of what you've been describing as you building the Atlanta scene. I mean, she was a connector. She was a connector. A killer one, yeah.

She was extremely important in the funk direction that slide took with there's a ride going. on. Actually, there's a tattoo on her ass that literally says that this ass invented fusion. Wow. So, yeah, she was very key to Miles' bitch's brew development and on the corner. And also with Herbie doing his funk stuff with the headhunters and chameleons.

How many wives in Miles have? I'm trying to place her. Four? She's not one that you probably would have seen Because people really only talk It's mostly Cicely Tyson that people talk about That he was married to and then maybe The one other who was one movie

Yeah But people don't really talk about bad Because it was so quick But she had a singing career Kind of weird Speaking of the Sly thing Sly would be so notoriously late To these studio sessions that

Yeah that basically the family Stowe would be chilling Like this during like the ride going on in 71 period That she just come around the studio And Slad be going for days and missing And that's basically how the family stone became her Because Greg Erika produced the first album right? Yeah, exactly

With I mean but it's Jerry and Cynthia and Freddie Stone Right right And the point is just yeah Yeah pretty much And Sylvester Yeah you're right On the album too Yeah

But just but I didn't know that particular piece So it's because Slal would be so late and shit all the time. And Barry would come back and she just ended up getting tight with everybody. And they just stopped playing for her too. He'd be going for three, four weeks. They'd be sitting. So they're just like, all right, let's work on our own shit. So that's how that initial album came to be.

But, yeah, like, why did you gravitate towards? Did you feel the need to, like, maybe take the baton that she had and... I didn't feel that until I found out about her. and I found out about her later in my life. I was already grown once I found out about her. I found out about her when I was working on amoeba cleansing syndrome. Oh, man, that makes sense. And Fishbone introduced me to her,

specifically Norwood, Fish, and J.B. Okay. And they were just like, because, you know, we had been jamming together and doing shit together, and we've gone to the world together, doing all this stuff, And it was just like, have you, are you familiar with Betty Davis? Have you heard her? And I was like, the actress?

You know, it was like, nah, no, no, right. And like, Kim Carnes? They're like, no, Miles Davis's ex-wife. And I was just like, no. And they were like, hold up. And then they had, because at that time everybody still had, like, you know, cassette, rare cassettes and shit that they would, like, keep with them. They went back there and pulled out four cassettes of her shit.

And the first shit they played for me was if I'm in a good God. And the first time I heard, I mean, I was just like, Mother! Like, seriously, like it was like a, like a missing link type shit. Because the only person I had really felt connected to like that point when I was really little was like Minnie Ruperton's voice used to do me like that. It resonated. It had a thing with me. And then I had a very in-depth relationship with Chadee as a teenager.

Oh, man. Musically. And so there were just these things that, you know, like there were certain. But there was always something missing. There was nothing outside of like LaBelle and Funkadelic, that spoke to like the guttural parts of me. But I didn't really have. And I loved Tina Turner as well in a hardcore way for sure. But I didn't have.

I didn't. There was still something missing in terms. I hadn't seen that other part of myself in anybody else. And when I heard that part of myself and anybody else, and so when they let me hear that, I was just like, Okay, so Joy, for all the new Betty Davis people, because now I'm in it, I'm in her, you got me,

I wasn't familiar. Give us a Chi-She. What's the album that you think, like? Can you start with the first one? Oh, just start. Self-title. Betty Davis, crank it up. Start from now now.

Yeah, there's really just three. Well, now four. It's only three. It's only four. Yeah. Now four, so. Because I see nasty gal, and I just want to go to it because it's just.

That's okay. But as her works go. Start with the first one. Start with the first one. Okay. Start with that one and then go to... The last album was she started dating, addicted to love.

Robert Palmer. Robert Palmer. Really? That makes sense. Yeah, like, yeah, oh, she was dating Robert Palmer. Wait a minute, but you said addicted to love. Well, that's why I was thinking of Robert Palmer. But yes, she started dating him 78, 79.

Okay. And he got her a deal on Island. And they made a record and then never released it. And a sucker like me, like, went to bleaker bobs, put a few Benjamin's on it on the acidate. Oh, wow. And they got like re-released like two years later. I'm like, first and you're the original.

Yeah. But that expanded me and opened me up in another kind of way. And I just felt instantly like, and I saw so much of my self in her. and in her journey. And I just, it, you know, it changed me. It's one of those,

you know, one of those moments in your life where it just. Do you have any aspirations or hopes to at least be a part of her biopic or the telling of her story or? Oh, I would love to.

I would absolutely love to. I would, absolutely. I would like somebody to do the shit before I get too goddamn old. Still do them high kids. While I still do. I still do.

I have one. one more question because I know we got a rap soon but what it seems so obvious to me why have you not made a complete full album with organized noise or would that have been too obvious? Well not obvious

like you know I mean were you too close for comfort with Dallas you know like you work well with Dallas and has there ever been a thing like well why don't you us produce your entire I work well with whoever I'm working with And whoever want to work? Has the conversation ever come up?

I'm working. About them doing a whole album? Well, no, they did some. They did quite a few. You know, they did. But not an entire album. But not an entire album. No.

I've not done an entire album with anybody since Penel of it. But I do feel that... I've worked with different producers on different shit. I would have loved to heard... their production and music, I just feel as though, because they did it so well with cast and they did it so well with Goody Mob and stuff. There was talk of doing it several times. It just didn't happen.

Damn. It just didn't happen. But there was always talk. It was a talk of a full joy album. It was talk of a pimpure, gangster cook, album. It was talk of, you know, a full heroin album, which was me, Peaches and Stephanie. at the time. It was talks of a full, you know, it's been lots of talks.

It's just, it just wasn't something that came to fruition. So where do things stand now, just as far as where things are with the family, like, is just completely separate and this person's here, this person's there, this person's up there, this person's down there, this will deem each other on the phone. You know, I'm in any situation I'm in, I'm always the lone wolf, even if I'm, family affiliated. I'm still the long wolf, you know, wherever I am. So

everybody's good. I don't see everybody. I'm out here. You know, everybody else is in Atlanta. But everything is fine. You know, like people are still cool. People still work together. People still talk. People still shaking on each other.

You played me some sleepy stuff. Like, when is he putting that shit out? Yeah, I don't know when Sleepy's going to put his stuff out. But I think he, is going to do it fucking soon. Hurry up. That was dope.

Yeah. Oh man, you have to tell us about being a bang bang girl. Oh. Excuse me? Say what? Being a bang bang girl.

New cheese, nigga. So the cool thing that has happened as, like I said, the behind the scene shit is cool. I'm fine with it. Since I've been living in LA, one of my cool hustles has been doing vocals for.

for a lot of pop music. And in particular, working with Max Martin. I received a call from Naim, who was the homie that I grew up with in Nashville, who asked me to put together three ladies, some La Belle-esque-type vocals. And I said, okay. And I made a couple of phone calls to some ladies

who I knew I could sing well with and they were available at the time and we went to a session we were only supposed to do one song for Max Martin and it was for something that we were working on for Ariana Grande when we got there

and it turned out to be bang bang and so we did that one and we ended up doing like four more songs Wait I'm now thinking of like Jesse Jay Jesse Jay and Arianna Grande and Nicky.

Okay. So wait a minute. You wrote? Whoa. She's singing vocal. So wait. I did vocal. I did back in vocals.

So I've just, but for the last few years, I've had some pretty consistent work doing backs with Max Martin and with other producers. Other pop producers. Are you cool with Saida Garrett? Y'all have some similar parallel situation. I know Saida's husband. Okay. Eric. Eric.

Because I know Erica. because she was married, used to be married to my good friend, KP, years ago. Kewan. Kwan. Kwan. Priva.

Uh-huh. But I've never met Ms. Saida and she's the shit. But I've never met her and she's the fucking bond. Man, y'all would... Y'all would... Y'all would...

Y'all get along. Yeah. Yeah. And I respect all of her shit and just, she's just the shit. That's like, she's a shit. And maybe I have met her once, but it was just very in passing.

It wasn't anything to in depth. But yeah, the bang-bang, me and Tar Stinson and Dombie. Oh my God. Wait, wait, wait. You're naming the heavyweight. Yes. So the three of us have been doing it for the past few years, and it's been really cool.

We haven't done anything in a bit, but. It's so happy that y'all are like working and killing it. But we did. We've done a lot, and it led to other work. So it's like with us doing that for him and with that going so well, then it was like, other people that were reaching out with shit. those three girls and we just ended up calling ourselves the bang bang girls because that was the first thing that we sung on together and because max was calling us that too and bragging that he didn't want nobody but the bang bang girls so then your project I sort of thought you were talking

well wait though that's like a whole supergroup joy hope doing well it is but you know girl I mean we just gonna work a EP check us out individually that's the check us out individually that's the check that's the check she's talking about? That's why I fuck the joy. Fuck all that other shit. Okay, any... Check aside, individual. Sorry, fan perspective.

Fan perspective. Final questions. All those ladies. The Ray Ray intro. Yeah. The Ray Ray Ray intro. Yes. No, you have been a part of like two of the greatest intro to albums ever.

Yes. You may die and Ray Ray. Yeah. Thank you. Ray left me alone. He was working on that project. He just left me in the studio. Did whatever?

dude, can you write me something? I was like, I'm going to write me my mom. And what I said was I'm going to write you some. I'm going to write your intro song. I'm going to write your intro, some theme music. That's what I said. Like I got me, I was like, I'm going to give you something. It'll be your version.

It's like, okay. So he left me in there and I wrote to. Masterful. He's an Oakland writer, making money in L.A. Yeah. Play that fucking baseball. Y'all might. No, I'm like, no.

I'm about here on Sadiq, but he's right. I mean, Dan, Bill, we almost had a Joy Fonte duet, and they hit home boss big. Shit. Everybody else being... I'm sorry. You can kiss my entire black ass. Sorry.

You get fit to. Blackety black, black, black. Oh, my God. But yeah, that was wonderful. I love, that's one of my favorite things. I've done. It was very fun. Making it.

It was and he loved it. So I was glad that it, you know, glad I was able to give him what he wanted. Was that after or before y'all did? I'm so famous. After. That was after. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, that was after. I've told you that, but I want to confess it to the world. Thank you. Thank you. I love I'm so famous. Thank you. The whole Tennessee.

Tennessee. Yeah. Dance with yesterday is my favorite. That's my favorite on that one. Thank you. Thank you. Is there a new album coming? Lynn John.

Ooh, yes. When? When? When? First single was January 21st. Oh, I mean, January 25th. I'm sorry, my birthday.

Your birthday? That's awesome. So it's already out now. All right. Yes. That's what I'm, yeah. It's already out now. Yeah.

What's it called? What's it called? The album is called Sir Rebecca Holy Love. Explain? Yeah. I was wondering why you changed your Twitter name. I was like, oh, must be a new album title. Is that like a Sasha Fierce type thing or is there a story behind that?

Well, you know, I'm Tennessee Slim. I'm stuck. Okay. Okay. So that's just another am. Just another alias. Okay. So Rebecca,

Savage, immortal, and righteous. Rebecca, holy love. Savage, immortal, and righteous. What can you tell us about Rebecca? Rebecca is the, you know, a woman fully realized, stepping into her Christ's head space. And fully realizing the, you know,

the, not too much difference, what really almost, well, the duality of things. That's what she is. She's a woman who really. realizes the duality of things. And she's forgiving and accepting and she's peaceful. And she resists the confinements of constructs.

And she'll get, I mean, she could also, you know, help you bury the body, but she can also, you know, be your balm and sue you. She can do that too. Looking forward to, you know. Thank you. It's called therapy. Is it done? Is it all the way done?

It's done. It's done. It's done. Okay, I was hoping to get in there. Yeah, I was like, damn. Independent? Is that? Absolutely.

Fantastic. Mm-hmm. She make our own money. Mm-hmm. We're independent. Got a cool little team. We're just going to keep, we're going to take it one step at a time and just keep pushing that Joker. You're going to tour with it?

Forward. I am going to tour with it. I need a booking agent. That's what I'm looking for now. I need somebody book these shows. All right. From your mouth to the ears of the guys. The hardest.

If God listens to a podcast, Joy needs, that should be our tag. Questlo Supreme, God's favorite podcast. Yes, there you go. That's it. But I'm excited and I'm excited about the work I produced. Well, hands-on I produced. I say four-o.

And I work with Brooke DeLoe. Yes. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. I mean, God damn, y'all didn't respond like that when I said I had been my first son. But we didn't expect to hear Brooks name. That was Christmas. That's Christmas.

Yeah. Oh, I'm right. Yeah. No, we were literally just talking about this before you got here about how, like, you know, artists. I mean, not to say older artists. Well, yeah, how Jay Navy got shafted. And also just how, like, artists that are, you know, of the older generation, how they need to work with like the new jacks that grew up listening to them.

You know what I'm saying? Like they need that and you don't you don't really see too much of that now. You know what I mean? I mean, I think. But Brooke is like half and half. He's one of them and then he's not a, he ain't that young. He's not that young,

but he's not 40 either. Right. But they're the, they're the OGs of the younger badasses that are happening now. Exactly. They were around to see it. They weren't invited to, they're the younger OGs.

And they're trailblazers and kick-ass fucking originals. You know, but I'm excited. Brooke did an amazing, Jay was fantastic working with Brooke. Observational note, this is the first time in all these episodes that I've seen Bill get genuinely excited

about music coming out. Like you've awakened something in him that has been dead for so long. I'm glad you're excited, Bill. Wow. That's incredible because he hates everything. And I'm pleased with the album is, you know, it's fucking bum.

I can't wait for the show. It's bumping. It's bass heavy. It's mostly up tempo. Shit jamming. Mid tempo and uptempo and uptempo. And it's a couple of, you know, slow ones on that too. Brooke's not dude, man.

Brooke is a drum smith and a hardcore tech nerd. Yes, he is. And for those of those listening that don't know who Brooke is, he produced Miguel's Ador, right? Yes, he did. And some other... Did he do adorn? He did adorn?

I think so. Well, he was part of the Grammy performance. Oh, okay, okay. At least. But he did produce a couple of them on Miguel's. And he was his music director. Yeah, he was his MD, yeah. Yeah.

But dude's badass. But yeah, he's just a ridiculous tune smith. And it really helped me get my drums together. Yeah. I'm fine with my beats be fine. But I needed help getting them like chonky or like the sonics of them, getting them wide and full. He really helped me do that. Wait, you're saying that you take long, tedious drum cellars on stage?

Just joking. I joke. Anyway. I don't think that's what you're saying. Just playing. I love. Anyway, Joy, we, thank you. This is like our first rule conversation.

It is. It is. It is our first rule. It took my thing. Well, no, this is, I said. Remember we had a really great conversation at Darp when I let you listen to Star Kitty's Revenge. Remember that?

You're right. Yes. We didn't talk about that record at all. Yeah, we didn't get Star Kitty. That was a record you and Sadiq. Rafter he? No. He did the join after.

He did the one after. He did Tennessee. He was. He was executive producer of Tennessee Simmons. That's what my favorite ones. Well, he says, well, Tennessee Slim is the bomb. He says, and this is out of his mouth. He says, I didn't produce that record.

I just played bass on a couple of songs. Good for him, yeah. That's what he says. That's nice. And he says, you produced that record. And I did, and I am like that with all of my projects, but I choose wisely on who I choose to work with, because they bring out the best in me.

And not them, so I appreciate Ray for that. But yeah, Tennessee Simpson was one of my favorites, too. No, that was half. Some of it was Dallas. Some of it was organized noise. Some of it was Raphael. And this other cat, I can't even remember that brother's name right now. Andre something.

Fuck. I don't remember. But those were the people that worked on Star Kitty. So I was already out from under Dallas at that time. Gotcha. Yeah. But anyway, I'm glad to be here. I'm glad I was here.

It was fun. So glad you came. Thank you. Y'all are awesome. Well. You are awesome too. Thank you. I appreciate it.

We think the... You look amazing. I can't see you here. I just want everybody to know. We'll get all the looks. Andre Betts. Andre Betts. Thank you.

Andre Betts? That brother. Andre Betts sure did he did. Betts? B-E-T-T-S. Oh, I thought you meant Andre Betts and did. Human nature. I'm like, wait, he's still...

Andre Betz, he did get on. Okay. On the album. We got him. Andre Betz. He did. All right. Well, on behalf of the Team Supreme,

Fonteolo, Boss Bill. First, LA and our guest, Joy, thank you very much. Thank you for the kind folks at Westlake Audio. This is an awesome experience. Shout out the bubbles room. Shout out the bubbles.

Yeah, Bubbles room up there. Uh-huh. Looking down over us. Thank you, Coco, because we are bringing in our new year with a female engineer. Bam. There we go. Hell yeah, Coco. I'm in love with the Coco.

All right, all right, y'all. We'll be happy. On behalf of Team Supreme, this is Questlove, and we'll see you on the next go-round. Thank you very much. Questlove Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio,

visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits,

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So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, It's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports

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