The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Kevin Liles

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Hip hop mogul Kevin Liles talks about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president of Def Jam and the value of hard work. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your man, Fonte, Fante, New Tiggilo, New Tigolo, New Tigolo. And right now, this is yet another Quest Love Supreme Classic from Taurus. February 1st, 2017, pre-Roman, when we sat down with hip-hop mogul Kevin Lous, where he talked about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president of Def Jam, and the value of hard work,

and also his lot of people didn't know his little, his very little-known role in writing a song called Girl You Know It's True. This is an amazing episode. So, listen, check it out. Y'all know where to get it. Fantigolo, Quest of Supreme Classic. Yes, sir. Sub-S-Sprima Role

Am-Quest Love Girl Yeah I Am-Quest Love Girl Yeah I am Quest Love Girl Yeah And this is true Yeah

Supremea Supreme A-S-S-S-Sprima Role call Supremma Sub-SUprima Role Call My name is Fonte Yeah

Feed me Seymour Yeah Shout out to all my Yeah Niggas I NB-B-More Oh Supreme Sub-S

Sub-Sumrararara Role call Suprema Subrema Rocault My name is Sugar Yeah With Kevin Liles

Yeah Quest Love Suprema Yeah Don't change that tile Roll call Suprema Suprema Suprema Rocaul

Pumpade Bill Yeah Going wild Yeah Quest love Supreme Yeah Kevin Liles Roll call

Supreme Submma Subrima Suprema Subrema, Roll Call. It's La'Ea with my QLS fam. Yeah. For nothing, ladies.

Yeah. But these dudes, goddamn. Roll call. Supremia. Almost a decent. Supreme. Role Call. Supremma.

Supremma. Superima. Role Call. Steve is Wack. Yeah. The Saints Bob Bill. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Just keeping it real. Oh. My name is Kevin. Yeah. I guess I'm here. Yeah. I want to tell you.

Yeah. I have no fear. Roll call. Supriva. Supriva, Supriva, Roe call. Supriva,

Subima Roca It's February. Supreme Roca Yeah. Suprama Roca Supreme just happened. That's what are my

favorite? You got a distract. We got a dirt track. Bitch you guessed. First off, fuck your bitch. Calm down. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to... I would have the engineer all up in your video.

Now, calm down, though. Come to Quest. Smoking. Come on. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition. Our first February Black History Month edition. February.

To Questlove Supreme. Did I say February with the brew? I don't know. I say February, but without the brough. Yeah, February, it's a weird month. That in Wednesday. Yeah, those are like names that like, it's like a black teenage mother named those.

Like, this is all these extra letters in it. That aren't needed? Yes. Part of Africa is that February come from. I stole that from the pound cake speech from Bill Cosby. Oh, wow. That Bill Cosby. He's a real treat.

Oh, my God. Well, you know, this is a, well, it's not necessarily a special addition to Questleuble Supreme, but we have a very special guest who, in my opinion, he's the example of true excellence and tireless determination and work and long hours. from interning in the mail room to order in the lunchroom. I feel like Jesse Jackson. We're interning in the mail room to order in the lunch room. To the board room.

To meetings in the late room. To a meeting in my bedroom. To the sit-firing in the board room. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Mr. Kevin Lyles. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Oh, man. Okay. I have to say, first of all, thank you for accepting and clearing your schedule, because you are probably the hardest working executive I've ever known.

No, I can tell you no. No, I know. I do my research. I do my research, really. I mean, to me, the difference between you and another well-known public-figured CEO is that you're not about the spot. You're the one that didn't want to be up on all the videos and dancing. Can I ask you, once you realized that that was allowed, did you regret, like, well, I'm the one that actually had the hit?

I can't dance, so I'm good. No, I'm good. I enjoy the culture. I enjoy the opportunity that God gives me, and I'm this a worker. You know, I think you lead by example. You don't just do it for the job or do it for a job. for the glory, I think there's a lot of gut before the glory. You know what I mean?

So that's me. I mean, just based on your history and where, you know, a lot of your lean years, the work that you put in, I had to also say that you also might be a glutton for punishment. Because we're going to get into that. We're going to get into that. Take a little, bro. What up? Happy February.

Yeah, happy February. Happy Laia, Mom. It is black history buff. That is right. Wait, why is it like? I thought we were last month. No, because I'm black. You know, I'm real black.

So, you know, you know. Oh, okay. Just you? In this room? How your blackness getting to claim a whole month? Right. Oh, you did that on the Kwanza episode, bro?

Oh, is it still about Kwanza? Because I was like two months ago. Come on. That was a long time ago. I regret that because I had to look up who, that who's the Paringa. No. the person that you...

Chuck Wollary? Who? Chuck Woolery? No. Oh, shit. So see, Mr. Lyles, what happened on a previous episode was that Fonte liked to compare the founder of Kwanza to Dr. York and Joanne the Scammer, yeah. That's the rabbit hole I fell down.

Joanne the Scammer. How come I... Oh, you late. Yeah, I was late. I'm also in my 40s. So why would I have to know about Joanne the Scammer? Yeah, I only know just from Twitter that, you know, that was how I found. I got it.

Damn, I thought you did research on Kwanza. Damn, you see, that's why I'm, this is why this Laia mom, because I'm black. I mean, you know, once Chuck will agree with Fonte, then I think our best were off. And we'll be back in two and two. Two and two. Okay, okay, okay. Anyway, Mr. Lowe's, yeah.

We usually start with the timeline of the beginning. So you're from B-more, correct? Yes, B-more. You're claiming in Baltimore too? Baltimore too? Well, I'm sorry, sir. I should say, yes, because I went to Morgan State. She claims every city on the East Coast. When you're from D.C. It's 30 minutes away, but when you go to Morgan State. I thought D.C. and Baltimore don't mix one. They're very different.

Well, what's your... It's cousins. They're cousins. We're family. We don't always like each other, right? But we love each other. Shout out to Gizzy. You know, I'm a, I got a lot of family in D.C., you know, a lot of family in Vmore. That whole DMV is like, I made my tracks there, so, you know, I love all of it, you know. You know, I'm surprised you still have your Baltimore accent. Like, I still hear your Tews and your D-U's. You cut me up and I'm B-Moor. You know, that's just what it is.

And I've been accepted here in New York. I've made with 25 years. So it's like, you know, I'm guessing in New York too. You know what I mean? So but you cut me up and I'm B-Moor forever. I didn't know that T-U and you. Yeah. That's the Baltimore.

That's true. That's a join or that's a Philly. I don't think Baltimore has a joint. It's just the, what do you call the... You know what, though? Okay, not that I should hold near and dear what the... See, I don't want to be that person that references the wire, like... Well, on the wire, I saw...

But I actually heard Snoop's character use the word John when describing... Like, Wiggle It... Jiggle it came on by... Young Lee. Young Lee. Wait, he was on that jam, right? Yes, he was. I worked there. Did you sign up?

No. You were still there? I was there. Okay, I thought... I was there. Because of Baltimore. You were there? I was there at that time, too, yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, basically, like, Snoop used the word join. She might have said Joe, because Joe is kind of like... But no, she meant it like, that's my joint. Yeah, she said, John.

We used joint, yeah, we use that, too. Yeah, yo, you know. Y'all use yo for everything. Oh, yo. I thought yo was a New York thing as in... But I appreciate you because you still go back. You were just at Morgan, like, right now recently,

You constantly go back and give back to Morgan State. And I try to tell people, you're nothing without bringing people with you. So I just go as a beacon of light. We're raising $250 million for Morgan. And if you go there, when I went there, we stayed at Cummins. And now it's like one of the top, you know, five universities for engineers. The number one, African American university for engineers. You know what I mean?

So I'm a former engineer. So it's just a blessing to go back all the time. My whole family's there too. It's like the most up north HBCU as well. Yes. Yeah. Man, you are really giving back. I feel bad.

Like, I think I gave a drum set to my high school. And whenever something goes down in Baltimore, you are there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, with Freddie and everything. Yeah, that's my city. You know, one thing when you come from Hummel beginnings and, you know, like I tell people, most of my journey comes from real life shit, you know what I mean? So, like, I've been in it.

You know, you talk about the why. That was my, that was the era. You know what I mean? Like my uncles and everybody and for me to be here and just talk about it still, talk about my city. Just recently, Keon-Carpenter who went to Woodlawn after me, younger than me, but I built a stadium. He would always, he'd pay for the Balkans. He came home. He would always do a class for kids who wanted to play football, track and field, and things like that, and develop a great friendship.

And one thing about Baltimore, if something ever happened to the moment, if something ever happened, in Baltimore, I get it. I get it. So not to start off in a, but, you know, I always got to be spiritual. So he was playing for his son. And you love this quest in a way. But you also, it was a sad moment. But playing for his son, made a mistake and hit his head, went into a coma, and had, you know, 39 years old past. Now, tell that story, because when you talk about Baltimore, you owe it to where you're from to always go back.

because something is going to happen to somebody at some point in time and people need light. They need something positive, they need something, one of the reasons why you do the show.

You know what I mean? People need light, people need guidance and when people speak about Baltimore, that's like, that's my city. That's like it's really my city. You know what I'm saying?

So to me, I just love, and I don't know how I went there and there, I guess, was on my heart, so fuck it. So how did you, no, no, no. I mean,

what I want to talk about that. Like, my depiction, Like, I used to go to Baltimore a lot, like, I had an uncle and out down there. We'd go, like, summertime, you know, weekends, those sort of things. And I didn't see the Baltimore that's, you know, depicted on TV. I mean, like, does it, do you feel some sort of way when you hear the, I guess, the somewhat fetishizing of the wire culture with other, I mean, the inside joke is always like more white people love the wire than black people do you know

like they will i've seen many wire references and every like highbrow comedy show on tv or whatever is this always like some inside joke about it but you know it's a lot of people the wire is like what they feel is baltimore and like how do you i mean how did you how did you what was your baltimore you growing up and and and like your experience experiences with the city. All that. Really? All that.

And I have to be honest with you. So when I grew up, it was probably highlight, you know, the dope scene, you know what mean? And, you know, if you want, it was there. It was everywhere. I always say, you know, you have the drugstore, the liquor store, the church, and the dope corner. It was there. That's there.

So that's what people talked about. That's what people were. You want to know how to make money. You wanted to be with that guy who was on the corner. He always had the money. And he was giving back to the kids. And that all, everything you, the wire trod a true depiction of what was happening in that, the city at the time. To the point where when it got to, where people were saying it's the home of the wire,

Martin O'Malley, who was at that time mayor about to go for governor, a friend of mine, said that's not what I want us to be known for, not under my, you know, my jurisdiction. And he actually went, who's one of the guys to say, hey, we shouldn't go. You know, we should stop it and do something. And from that point on, Ritz-Colton, four seasons, turned a whole, in a hub. Johns Hopkins invested into Feld's point. So many big things in Morgan State went to a different level. But, you know, to say why I appreciate life and why I appreciate moments, you know,

even like this is because, you know, I come from very humble beginnings. I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. My shit was rusted, you know what I mean? So I know what it is. So it was like that, though. What's crazy is Martin O'Malley was really depicted in the wire

as Mayor Garcetti, who was very... Yes, yes, Miss, Martin, Sheila, and all, and these are people, you know, we just retired, well, she retired herself of Senator McColsky. And, you know, I'm 48 now, So I've seen it. You know what I mean?

Even from a very young age, you know, back, Mayor Smoke back then, I always thought that if you had politics, if you could put yourself in a position of power by being around that. And so I've been with every mayor, governor, city council member, the whole night. Also, when people got in trouble, I can get them out. I could always work some things out. So it's the truth, though.

I love the wire, though. I loved, it was a moment. It was a moment in cultural history to me for TV, for HBO. I think it was one of those soprano moments for our culture, you know, for the wild. So you saw places and those things and just you saw memories and... Yeah, you and I need to go. I mean, you and I need to go. And I'm being, the way I'm being serious about, because I think I could show you the

old and the new. I can show you some of the stuff that was happening back then and where it's happening now, but also mean you can go have tea after four seasons. You know what I mean? You and I can go and visit Johns Hopkins and go to the morgan and see the new engineering building, you know what I mean? Baltimore's gentrifying. Yeah, I was going to say, is it going through a gentrification phase?

And are they phasing out the residents or is it inclusive? No comment. Oh. No comment. Because my apartment was $480 in Dutch Village. I promise you it ain't that now. I see. Let's take a walk this year, though.

Definitely. I would love to drive with you. Hang, I'm down. You join us, Lai? Yeah, I would love to. I'd love to see where Baltimore is gone. Take a little? I'll go.

I got people in Baltimore. Okay. You could call if it go down. Yeah. That's how you said it. Don't everybody? I mean, I'm just saying. Me and Bill go, but we're staying in our harbor the whole time.

Cool, me too. So, and you're, where does, Where does music play? Because, I mean, most people know you as an executive, but there might be millennials or whatnot that don't know that you were actually an artist yourself. So what was music's role in your life? Did Baltimore really have a music culture?

Did we? Well, okay, I know that there's this whole DMV idea of this unity thing. But, you know, for most people that I speak to from D.C., they were just claiming Go-Go and not Baltimore. And then Baltimore's, like, claiming house music and nothing else. And I'm not sure where Virginia is North Carolina fall under. They trickled down.

They fell in between. Yeah, we was just some of everything. Yeah, you just fell in between. So you guys had an active go-go? We didn't, well, we had it, but it was, it was transplants. I mean, the thing with North Carolina was that, you know, back to what Kevin was saying with the drug trade, the North Carolina was, you know, it was on the route. you were going south.

So pretty much. And we had, where I grew up in Greensboro, we had like a lot of colleges. It was a college town. So you had a lot of northerners coming up and going to school down south, and they were bringing their music with them. So go-go, I mean, go-go was like crazy.

I mean, all the cast came to DMV. College was the reason go-go-couture. Yeah, so a lot, all the go-go then, I mean, all the classic, you know, early 80s, you know, New York hip-hop stuff. I mean, that's what we were listening to. So that was why, like, when we came out as little brother, they were like y'all don't sound like y'all from the south

and it was like well the south that we were from that's what we listened to because that was our biggest influence all the stuff that was coming down to seaboard Baltimore Club though that house music that didn't make it the Baltimore Club didn't make it I didn't figure out the Baltimore Club until it was later because that was like really hard

what I know as Baltimore house music that made it sort of entry in hipsters lives like 2002-2003 was that always a thing always a thing Always the thing. So like how far back?

Depends on how far you want to go. I mean, like, so with me, I'm a, I started as an emcee, but also DJed. Our whole thing with New Marks, we had 10 turntables. And so we would mix. We would do our mixes with 10 turntables, you know what I mean? So I would play the bass beat and then people scratch records over top of it and blended, and we went around doing that. And then the whole rap thing came with run DMC and thing.

And it was like, yo, my man said, yo, you rap? I said, no, I write poetry. He said, well, I rap, so we're going to be Rod and KG. And I was KG. And I was like, cool. And then this was back when in Baltimore, there was a group called We Rock Crew, Charmed City, Crew, and a couple of them. We were battle all over the city, you know what I mean?

And so I don't want to say the house music thing, you know, I did all that too. I mean, you can go, like North Avenue, a record I made about the street that we used to run up or down with the cars. I love that because that was Baltimore music, but what was really in me was hip-hop. And I was like a true fandom. I lost my mind when I heard some records. And so I can take you back to when the radio station was W.E.B.

And all they played was for four hours, the Mac James show, to now every radio station time all day, the station of hip-hop and R&B. It's all day. You know, they play it every day. I mean, that's everywhere now. But back then, I had slept on the floor, mixed, rap. I opened up, you loved this. So I think my record got a little big or whatever.

And so L.L. was coming to a place called 4, Liberty Heights. Okay. And so I opened up for L.L. Oh. No, I'm on. Somebody pulled a gun. They started shooting in there. And up in the adjustment with Tart, he said,

you're all crazy I said Joe Tata you're good don't worry about it but not just him Run the MC I opened up for Salt and Pepper

I opened up for Raw bass Ra bass and Lavert I went on tour with I mean when you when you talk about it

it's like this is why I know how to treat an artist because I know what it I know how I wanted to be treated Will Smith They actually They would actually let you Let me

I was big in the city Quest I was big Okay okay my bad I'm talking arena big. Arena big. Throw your hands in the air.

I was arena big. Okay. Well, no, just no. Like, today artists, I mean, not even today, like, you just come in, you get on the mic and then you out. Like, I can't remember the last time. The other bigger artists let you in. I met little brother because, like, the root show got rained out. And I was like, all right, let me walk into artists and shake some hands or whatever.

And he just happened to be out there. Yeah. Like, we've been in rain. I wouldn't have got the demo and I wanted to tweet about it or tweet it, well, OK playered about it. But I'm just saying that what made you, well, not what made you want to, in your mind where you like, okay, I'm going to be a diplomat to these, you know, for the city and get with these artists or it was just like hip hop was so scarce in the mid to late 80s that you just had to know every MC or act that came. down. Now, you know what it was? I ran the street, so it was like I knew everybody and then the promoters would tell artists, hey, you're going to do the show, but we got to put this group New Marks on because they're local, they're going to bring about, you know, tickets and

things. So you should put them on. And the way we used to run, because we DJed on the radio for four or five hours and we used to do shows, we kind of like ran the city when it came to music, you know what I mean? So it was like they just loved having us open. up and then me always treated it like a business. You know what I mean? It wasn't about me hanging out with people or just meeting somebody. I wanted to have a value proposition.

So I made sure when the artist came down that they felt like they got to be more love. You know what I mean? It was something special about them coming down. So one artist would tell another artist, you know, them kids, you gotta, they could take you where you got to go, they can get you anything you want.

And they don't. So that was really my mindset. Who always in New Marks? Who were the other members of the group? One of the original founders, was DJ Spin. He still plays house music today. Shout out to Spin.

Beatmaster Moe was a kid named Wayne Mallory. He's married and in Florida. Junie Jam was one of my neighbors. And his cousin, Rod, was Rod and KG, you know, me and him. So it was five of us. You know, it was like mini Wu-Tang. Right. It was the time I can truly tell you, man, that, you know,

being from Baltimore and it had a certain sound. But before the house music thing was hip-hop. And they started to develop back. I mean, Crystal Waters and the basement boys and all, like, this was all stuff that we did on coming up. It was a place called Paradox that people used to go to for club music. But then Frank Skee, which, you know, he used to do this thing called Hammerjacks. What's Hammerjacks?

Hammerjacks is a club. It's like a house of blues, but it was in Baltimore. Okay. And when I tell you, we brought, you know, and I started interning for Deaf Jam, now I brought everybody from DMX, Red Man, Method Man, blah, blah, bye, everybody at that, even when I became the president, I brought everybody would come,

we had to do hammerjacks. It was like the spot in the city we had to do. So, you know, although I was, you know, I grew up on the house music stuff, hip hop was always like part of it. You know what I mean? So I always try to say, yo, guys, we really got to have that,

the edge with us, that thing with us. You know what I mean? even though I did the girl and the truth thing, it's still like, you know, you got to have that edge, you know what I mean?

All right, I want to, let's bring up the elephant in the room right now. Can't the elephant in the room. Let's kick. All right, well,

let's play the elephant in the room right now. Oh, let's do it. So what are you doing back? Well, I sat back and thought about the things

we used to do together. They really meant a lot to me. You wild, is that you talking? Yeah. That's you? Yes. Girl,

you know it's true. Shut up. No way. Even though I've heard this on and off since I found out that you were the author of girl, you know it's true. But in preparing for this interview and listening to it about a good three times,

that was a well-crafted song. Thank you. Now, this is the other thing. Everyone knows about my soul train. Addiction. And I happen to be watching an 86 episode of Soul Train with Star Point. And Don and then we're talking about, you know, they were just making a big thing of of Merlin and Baltimore and everything.

Like, you guys are the biggest things that come out there. Yeah, you know. I mean, they were embellishing like, yeah, you know, we can't even walk in the malls. We're all people asking bar autographs. And then at the end of the interview, they were like, yeah, we, you know, we want to develop more and everything, like, they really played it like they were the bell, the ball of Baltimore area. And, I mean, you know, they had objects. They had the hits. I think they were promoting the next join. He wants my body.

Or what was the joint with Teddy Riley? I want you, you want. You don't, you don't. I can't move. Teddy Riley produced their 88 joint. But my point was that, like, were there being as though they were the biggest act of the 80s. Were they a presence at all in,

were they at all on your radar, like during that time period? So you want to hear the craziest thing. There's a guy in Star Pointing and Kai did, ooh, ooh, ooh, I love you. Wait, what? Seriously? He wrote the lyric,

ooh, ooh, ooh. I love you. I love you. Exclusive. Exclusive. That's exclusive. That's exclusive. Wow.

Wait, I just thought, my whole point was that like StarPoint was really playing. Like, yeah, we were thinking Baltimore. I didn't even know that y'all crossed paths. I was just like. Did we cross paths? Bill Pedaway, who works with Timlin now, had this,

let's tell you a little bit about the record, had this record, this track. And, you know, I was a rapper, so I wasn't really, didn't write the songs. Well, you know, I'd do all that. But he said, yo, we probably need Kai to help us to. I said, Kai, I didn't really know like that, you know what I mean? So he said, yeah, stop. And I said, oh, okay, cool.

Yeah, you got some hits that. Let's right there. So he wrote that part of the record, and it's one of the, you know, that's why I'd say the group, I have to give him pay respect. And the other group was Radson. You know what I mean? The drummer from Reassens was my engineer from my first album. actually made an album too, but I can

you can look that up later. No, we see. You want to let us find that one. You recorded in the Oxen Hill, Maryland, right? Oxen Hill, Maryland. Studio records. Yep. Really? The last record that was made in

Oxon Hill, Maryland. Probably the last one. All right. I got to do more homework. I have to do more homework. Yeah, actually. Oh, wow. Wow. We got it. We don't, we don't have a turn to a year.

Getting a normal. Yeah, shout out to Norfolk War. So, explain to me the journey of girl, you know, it's true. For our fans that are born after 1990, right, yeah. It's a lot. Wow. I mean, this song was bigger than life. And basically, pretty much it was.

it was one of the biggest singles of 1988 for the Aresda label and caused an empire. Like just the entire story. Like, I want to know the journey of the song, but then I just want to know what your reaction was that you helped build an empire and the fall of that empire

and the scandal that broke out. And, I mean, how many times were you like, but that's me? Like, how many people came up to you, like, thought you were a gazillionaire because your song? First of all, why didn't you, or did you, like, how close were you guys to actually trying to bring this to a major or take it to a major label? Because it's a well-crafted song. So, for a local record is a very well-crafted song. So here's the thing.

It was inspired by, I Need Love. I'm taught. L.L. And I wasn't doing it to be a big artist, to be honest with you. You know what I mean? I was doing it because I liked it. On purpose or you just didn't think, oh, this song could actually put 100 kids through college? Honestly, it was just another record.

It's actually another record I love more than it. But when creation of that record, I knew it was special. I knew it was special. And every time we would play it, people, would just freak out over, and then I knew when we performed it, it's like the whole crowd saying, I knew it was special. So we sold like 100,000 copies with studio records. And I remember I'm home chilling with this girl, and I said, babe, turn the radio off.

And she said, that's not the radio. I said, what do you mean is not the radio? She said, no, I said, baby, it's the radio. I don't have a video for the record. She said, I know that's not you, but that's your record right there. and was middle of the only performing my record. That's how I found out. Wow.

Wow. On TV. So Frank Farian, for those that don't know. My man, he's going in there. All right. So here's the deal. So Frank Farian was a producer and a member of a 70-swunk outfit called Boney M. Steve's laughing because he knows the story on Mattel.

Wait, side note. I once thought I was hired to do a Boney, M record in late 2000. And we're fucking around was Bony James. Now I can't get rid of him. Like he's my BFF. But at the time I thought I was doing

a Bonny M session. I was like, wait a man, it's smooth jazz. Like, Nathan East, what are you doing here? Marcus Miller. Anyway, yeah, I guess he heard this on a German nightclub in an Army base or something. So,

um, to me, my label studio records was getting calls off from all over the world for Gerynard's Truth, the Newmocks. Right. And instead, we want, Chrysler's records came and said, we want to pick you guys up.

I didn't, this is all I found out afterwards to do the court. Right. And he said, well, I want money. And so he wanted to cash advance and Bluebird, whatever the label was, gave him the money,

but Chrysler's wanted to develop the green. But he didn't care about that part of it. He cared about getting money, you know what I mean? So the label you released it on wasn't your label per se? No, no, no. Okay, so the person, who's the head of the label? At that time was a guy named Franco, something. I forgot his name.

Okay. But he sold it to Bluebird. Bluebird then distributed through ZyX in the, what do you call it? And then we're not countries. In Japan, it was on some label. And France was on some label. And in the club, they were playing my version of the record. And so C.W. Shaw, who was an Army veteran, he was in the Army.

He sends me this long letter. You don't know me. I actually sung your record. And Millie Vanilli singing, acting like they said. He actually, I got a letter. Wow. From C.W. Shaw, who actually said, I'm the voice. So he's that guy that's singing and rapping?

From Houston, he said, I love you guys. I love your version of it. They came and asked me to re-sang the record. He said, it's not out yet. And so now this is when the record is 18 million copies. I'm working on the second album. You know, I did that one, Gersh, too, what's my Diane Warren did, Blame It on the Range.

So we think about what we're going to do next with the next album. them and then the whole thing blew up. You couldn't have wrote the story. You know what I mean? You couldn't have wrote the characters. So Diane Warren did Blame it on the Rain on Newark's first? No. No, no, no, no. I'm saying, I met her because I had Gurgeon North True, which was the first single

and she did Blame it on the Rain. So it's only one voice for Millie? That was one, I didn't even realize that, that was one man. No, he did, he did, it was really two of them, but I only know the one CW. Schott. So shout out, you know, he told me about it, but I didn't know what was going on. I was making money

because I sued and got my publishing and my writer stuff back. Yeah, I'm saying that, like, they didn't even clear it with you. I woke up, a girl said, that's you on the radio. I'm on the TV. That's how I found out.

And so I had to get a lawyer. You turned out of the vibe. You're like, that's my song. Yeah, it hurt. Yeah, pissed. Beyond, I wasn't mad. It was that, how can somebody do that? Like, and it was that moment

that I said, I don't want to be in the music business. I want to be in the business of music. It was at that moment, and I changed everything, my whole focus. So that made you want to get behind the camera, behind, in the boardroom instead of in front of the microphone. Yes, I never wanted to happen again. I never wanted to happen to anybody again. So you wanted to be this person because you wanted to protect someone from getting ganged

and, well, from the situation that happened to you. Yes, yes. It really made me love the business. I started to see things differently than I would go to a show and say, damn, that's a lot of glow sticks. I wonder how much they cost. Damn, the tickets price is this. And I would start thinking the business of everything around me.

And so that's what made me go back and said I'm an intern because I didn't understand enough. You know what I mean? How long for a situation like that, especially without the internet or something to help rustle, the process of information. I mean, how long was it of you crying wolf? Like, wait, I wrote the song, I wrote the song.

And getting an answer and eventually getting to Clive Davis or like, I can't even believe that they would be so careless as to release a song, market a song, sell the song, without checking to see if you know do some research everything's clear it's like with us like even of a minuscule sample

is a wait that laughing in mirror what's that laughing on that thing is that pink Floyd and you know like right right you're you got to so how long was it from the moment you heard the record

in 88 till like they finally did right by you and said I don't think I don't think I don't think people ever did did right by say you don't When you do right, you do right.

When you have to sue, that's not doing right. You know what I mean? Oh, so that was the last resort. Did you necessarily say? That was the first resort. Oh, you just, okay. I'm Phil Asbury. Shout out to Phil Asbury, Philadelphia.

Yes, Philadelphia International. You know, Phil Asbury showed him what it is to be, you know, don't mess with kids. Because I was, when I wrote the record, I think I was 16. Your Honor. Your version was, what, 86? 87. I don't even remember, man. So you're right on my record?

That was when the album came out. Oh, okay. So I'm not sure. It's somewhere around there. I think I wrote it, though, in 83. Oh, wow. Originally, me and my partner. And, you know, just a weird time.

But I didn't play with it, though. It wasn't, it was something I felt like, like you said, y'all had audacity to not check, do it, so 18 million copies. And then. Did they try to deny it? No, you could. No, they just We live in 2016

where the lies the truth We are In 2016 at least, right? 16. 17. 17. It's 17. It's February.

It's definitely February. I forgot where we were. No, I'm just saying, you know, the lie could be the truth. And, you know, Black here from Baltimore says we stole his song. Like, we're an empire. Yeah, it was a little bit.

And listen, a shout out to Clabin, I said, It was never, I never faulted them. I always faulted Frank Ferryon. I always faulted Steve Franco, the owner of studio records, because I might be sitting here as an artist, you know what I mean, if they would have did the right thing. You know what I mean? I could have never did for Gerdinor's True

what, what, really did for Gertrano's True. You know what I mean? I'm not wearing tight pants. I ain't jumping up like that. You need blue eyes. I'm not doing this and all that. I'm not just those things not happening. So I think God made that.

If anything, this is kind of a blessing in the disguise. It was, and I always tell people, if I had to do it all over again, I would allow it to happen. Because a lot of things came up, and I made a lot of money at a young age off the record. I traveled the world off of the record. I opened up for people who eventually were assigned to me. Wow. Which is ill. I developed friendships that to this day, we're raising kids now.

You know what I mean? I became an intern, was able to come to president in seven years of death time because I knew how artists should be treated because I was one. I traveled. I did, did everything that they could do. So to me, why would I want to write it differently? I couldn't, I couldn't imagine doing nothing different. Yeah, you still the next one too, if you want. You know what I mean?

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, personal health, personal health, purpose and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

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Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

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All right, this is Questlove Supreme. We're here with Kevin Lows, and he's telling us the story behind the song. He co-wrote called Girl, You Know It's True. So am I to assume that New Marks kind of imploded around this time as well? No. So you guys still weren't strong. Like, how long did the group last?

Well, we went from five members down to three members, and it became me and Rod and DJ Spin. And we started to do, quote, unquote, more Baltimore music. along with hip-hop stuff that I like. There was a record that we put out on our own label because we had a little money in called Marks Brothers Records. And there was a record we put out called Drop Down to Your Needs and a record we called Do You Wanna?

And they were probably the last records that I made. But we kept going and doing it. And then, again, I'm... What made you... Well, what was the deciding factor of the straw that broke the camels back? Like, maybe this isn't the route to take and I should do something else?

The middle of the vanilla thing really played a role in it But then the internship at Def Jam Yeah so how does that happen like you're at least a A compensated established figure And how did you how did you get in the sights of Russell Simmons for him to say You're going to work in the mailroom Was it just a job test for you like no I'm going to start you at the very bottom and literally...

Remember Jack the rapper? Yes. Remember Impact? Yeah. I used to go there and be the mad rapper. Why I know I want to sign me. I sold records. I did this.

Y'all know that's what I was. I was mad, you know? And then I ran into my mentor, West Johnson. God rest of soul. West says, can, man, you know when I was in Baltimore, I used to play your records. Yeah, Wes, I know.

You used to play my records. You know what I mean? He said, you know, I'm the senior vice president of marketing promotions for DeafJAN now. I said, get out of here. I said, well, sign me to Def Jam. He said, I only sign him in promotions. I said, well, give me a job. He said, no, but you can intern.

Now, what you said, I was making money. I'm okay. I said, intern. Intern? Intern? Interim? Def Jam. Intern.

Cool. So West Johnson said, you know, what, I'm going to have this guy interned. He said, by the way, we're hiring a guy named Kevin Mitchell from Boston. Kevin Mitchell. This is the... Ah, yes. Hiring a guy from Boston, and we're going to put him in the Mid-Atlantic. We like him.

And you could intern for him. So I said... You were Kevin Mitchell's intern? Kevin Mitchell's intern. Oh, my God. Kevin Mitchell. Right? I'm thinking the same thing. He's going to let you know who Kevin Mitchell is. But for the roots, if, you know, of course, no roots are listening to my radio show

so I will tell them about this when we signed to Geffen I mean basically because there was no staff but they had millions they did some unheard of shit which was basically here you take the credit cards

show us the receipts don't overspin like again you know Dale out's record was made for like 20,000 Cypress Hill's record was made for like 60,000 they just gave us an open and credit card and also like two employees from loud RCA and three employees from Def Jam, which were Francesca Spiro, Derek Jackson, and Kevin Mitchell. They would they would moonlight with Geffen and my our experience with Kev was that he was Mr. Magoo. He was blind.

He was the cartoon figure that had thick bottle glasses when he's driving. One night he was just asleep at the wheel and we were on the other side of the road like in dumb and dumber like he just somehow wound up with oncoming traffic at three in the morning we woke up like no like we're going to die so yes but Kevin Mitchell's my man besides trying to kill us he was he's a really great friend and and still a friend to us now but you were his intern I was Kevin's intern and it was so funny it's the craziest thing ever in my life it was no you you love the story so So Kev didn't know Baltimore, whatever. So Kev hit me, said, West said, you're going to help me out.

I said, yo, yeah, whatever you need, West's my man. Now, again, I'm making money. I'm good. I'm not worried about it wasn't a money thing. So Kevin called me and said, yo, I'm downstairs at V-103, but I can't get upstairs. I said, you can't get upstairs. So what did you call me for? He said, because your man is on, Frank.

I said, yeah. I said, so you calling me to get you upstairs, and that's your. job. They're paying you to do this. Now I had a little attitude about it. I said, so I call Frank. Frank. You, my man, he one of us, he good. And me and Frank, Frank, Frank was in my wedding. That's my guy. So he said, Kev, I'll see him. Whatever you want me to do, blah, blah, about this. And it was that moment where I always pay respect to Kevin Mitchell. Kevin got on a conference call. He would let me listen on the conference calls to learn. Kevin said, my intern is going to run the company. and y'all can act crazy if y'all want because the shit he can pull off here

and so that's really how he let me he let me live and i did work but he let me live you know me all right i'm gonna let you know something um because most of the industry foreclore that at least people my age know about is the story of sean combs getting on a train every day at howard and going to new york every day in, you know, Uptown record's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm going to tell you something. There's two stories I always heard

that set or at least set me on the path for how I dealt with interns. You don't even know this. You don't even know this. One was, you always heard stories of James Brown. James Brown used to always tell, like, all his band members, find the lowest, he would call him the coffee board, the water board.

He says, I guess the term intern wasn't out back in the 50s or 60s, but James Brown used to always say, find the coffee boy, the water boy, and make him feel like he's on top of the world because one day in 20 years, he's going to be signing your checks. My inart, Wendy Goldstein, told me a story where she was like, look,

we're going to have to do real grassroots stuff. It's not going to be glamorous or whatever. You're going to do these college radio shows and stuff. Because then we had lofty goals. It was 94. You're seeing all these videos and everything. And you're like, well, when's our hype Williams video moment going to happen? You know, we're like 19 to a van and all this stuff.

And she just told me like, look, patience, stay the course. And whatever you do, always be nice to the interns and the lowly people because it's going to pay off in ways you don't know. And she told me his story. You know, Kevin Long, he wrote, girl, you know it's true. And still was there, she would tell me these stories of, like, I guess your reputation was that you would show up to work earlier than anyone. And lead the latest.

Just to let them know. And she told me that. And, like, that stuck with me. It's not like I was like, well, okay, well, be nice to. But because it just always stuck with me. And I'll say to this day, every CEO or head of a, company that I've ever done business with, at least in the last 10 years, between 2006 and 2016, and I've done a lot of business, like, pay my mom a house off business.

It all starts with the same story that I forget, which is, hey, I don't know you don't remember this, but this is one time we were at Brown University, and, you know, I was interned at this college radio station, and I asked you if I could do an interview. You gave me like a nine-hour interview. Only one at five minutes and da-da-da-da. And that's because I always remember. Shocker. Wendy.

Really, really shocking. The host of a three-hour podcast. It was a nine-hour interview. Yeah, well, I'm like, okay, I'm chatty. But I'm just saying that having Kevin and Wendy and Francesca and Derek like always tell me, make sure that when you go to these colleges, you treat the intern like that stuck with me. were like always their example.

So, I mean, you entered Def Jam in, what, in 91? 91. So this period, Dark days, man. Well, not quite, I feel like it was the last, I feel like 91 was the last good year.

Oh, and Apocalypse 91? Like, was that. Of the old death jam. I mean, you know. That's kind of where I draw the one. Yeah, that was not for real. That was, yeah. Like the classic logo Def Jam era.

That was the last period. So when you were there, what were you? your duties as intern? Well, again, I was still in Baltimore. So it was whatever Kevin Mitchell needed. You know what I mean? And at that time, it was deaf comedy jam was coming and all these things were being

created in Fat Farm and all it. So I looked at- So Russell's having you work all of his products, not just. Yeah. I mean, it was- To shut them down remix and make sure these DJs get it. We used everything for everything. So we used to do radio programs where we fly people.

went to Deaf Comedy Jam. So I fly all the program directors, artists, everybody in promotion. They wanted to close to wear, so it would give them a fat farm. You know, so we did everything. It kept evolving, so it wasn't, and it wasn't work, Quest to be honest with you. I got to wear. So you wanted to remember names and shake hands and kiss babies and I wanted to make people feel like they met me, not like they shook my hand. But what was the end game? for you. Like back in 91, if you're like, okay, well, I'm meeting this figure and da-da-da-da-da-da. Are you thinking down the line, like, one day I'll start my own label or? No, I just, I'm less a different dude. If I'm cooking, I want to make the best meal.

If I'm intern, I want to be the best intern. If I'm rapping, I want to be the best. So I never thought about being the president. Do you think coming from Baltimore? that I would be the president and CEO of Debtor Records. No, nobody knew me. I don't have family in New York. But the thing is that because you were Kevin Mitchell's intern, in 91 and by 99, you're the president of the damn label, that tells me that you had a very marksman-like determination and ambition.

I'm sorry. Where you... No? No, no, no, no. I don't mean like in a scandalous way. No, but you get some point. I never wanted to be president. I never knew what it was.

To be honest with you, I didn't know what it was. I thought Russell would be there forever. I thought Leo would be there. I never knew that was attainable from a kid from Baltimore. Yeah, but what told you? First of all, is that folklore I heard that was true? Mitchell would say like you'd show up at 8 in the morning. Like most people get in 10, 11.

Oh, no, I'm serious. So what tells you? So what tells you I need to be there at 8.30 a.m. every day before everyone gets there. I went to school to be electrical engineer. My scholarship was from NASA. I went playing with Nick. I went, sorry. I went out. You from Baltimore. CB time, A.N.A. N.A. No, I was, I was, again, I was, I guess I was a cool nerd. You know what I always wanted to be the best. And I remember when I came to deaf time,

the joke that I would say or come in, when I came to New York, and I was like, why people come here at 10, 30, 11 o'clock? You miss, the radio station is on 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Why are you, what, what do you mean? And then by the time you get there, get your coffee, had the water cooler movement, you're talking about you're on lunch.

Was there a teacher's pet kind of scarlet letter attached to your shoulder? Like, you know, Kevin Liles over there. Making us look bad. They tried to throw me out the building a couple of times. People would tell on me. I had people flip over desk in front of me. I had somebody tried to get me fired at Howard because I left them because they were late

and I had to get the group to the radio station. So I don't play that. I'm about the group doing what they're supposed to do. So I left them so they sent this long letter. And so I had to be, you know, being an engineer, you know, you do weird stuff. to write a response to that letter. Mine was like this.

This after every... You know what I'm a manifestation of every single thing. It was weird. Weirdo. I kept... It was weird old shit. You know what I mean? But I tell you, but it taught me...

All the engineering, I used to manage a telemarketing office of 400 people, three different shifts, taught me how to orate, how to communicate. Engineering taught me to be thoughtful when being an artist that's taught... taught me how to treat people, how, you know, I want to be treated. And so I would really work hard. Like I said, it wasn't easy.

Because they tried to throw me out the building. I remember my first mistake, well, not my first mistake. Well, one of the mistakes they almost got me looked at crazy. I did a show with Biggie Smalls, Method Man, Red Man, Onix, and somebody. But I did it in a museum doing Howard Homecoming. Oh, you fancy. Logo on the building, Deaf College Jam. on the building, $300,000 later

after they destroyed the place. Oh no. You go your guns, come on and everything. I had to explain why I would think doing a show in the museum was right. Explain the rationale for that, yeah. I had to explain the rationale. So I said, well, first off, nobody would throw a show

a museum. And I think hip hop is art. Hip hop deserves to be in a museum. Secondly, I feel like if you shine your logo like a bad sign, people come to it. So I had 2,000 people out inside, and another 3,000 people outside. Thirdly, I thought by having Biggie Smalls and Method Man

performed the what for the first time. Had this opportunity to that? I thought it would be a moment. The other time, Aronix never been in the museum. I'll bet they've been in one since then. So it was just a moment of time. And Lear said, what did you learn? I said I learned that I would do it again,

but I would have insurance. Right. And what does it feel like 20 years later when Picasso baby comes out? And it's like, I'm only telling you like, it's like, you were visionary. I get it. I get it. I get it. Yeah, but I never wanted to be, just to interrupt you. Sorry. I never wanted to be president. Matter of fact, in 96, they came to me and said, you know, we want to make you president.

I said, but I don't know the world. I don't, I don't, how can I be president and I don't know the world? I don't know what hip hop looks like in London or in Paris and in Japan. I don't really know what it looks like, so I need more time. So then 97 came around and it was like, well, yo, you really have to. We really want to, you know. And then in 98 I said, you know, I'm ready now. Okay, there's a common denominator for this show.

We're still a baby. And I feel like next to stories of the tunnel for New York rappers, the second common denominator is the Leor element, either imitating Leor or kind of... What did Leor throw it? Has Leor ever thrown anything at you? I don't believe you saying this question. Come the fuck over here, Quest.

So, of course, you got to work in... pre-yoga Russell's Def Jam maybe lunch throwing Lee or is Def Jam Yeah What was Okay

Aside from working in Baltimore I'm sure there were A few times you stepped in the actual building in New York Elizabeth Street Yeah I was there I was When Russell used to live on top of tower records

You know I mean I was I was in Baltimore but I was doing so well that they would say come up to New York and help with this program or help with this or... Oh, so you work outside of your markets. Yo, I remember Mike Kaza, love my man. He said, yo, I don't have my license yet.

Can you come up and get the 18 past the van and bring Houdini down? You know, Houdini wasn't on a deaf damn, but we managed him in Rush. So I actually drove up, came to pick the group up, And this is how, like, again, I didn't have to do it. I'm the intern. But it was a way for me to meet Houdini,

get it in the rush, talk to people, and do something for somebody who was a friend of mine, cause, you know what I mean? So I did that, you know what I mean? So to me, it wasn't, we did everything. So what was the building like? I try to ask Faith, I try to ask Faith Newman this question.

And she's rather diplomatic and not too descriptive. but for a person and you know this is not this is not about like throwing people onto the bus

or whatever but it's just that I've heard so many stories of like Def Jam between 85 and 90

or pre-polygrams so 91, 92 the Christmas parties the you know which which models now working in the

the room you know during the whole Griff J.D.L situation and all the guards that had to be out front and all that stuff and just like what was it like? Give me a deaf jam an old

politically incorrect deaf jam story like that you won't get arrested for. Wow. Um, rock and roll man. I mean every bit of everything you could imagine And I never really considered it just, it was really, when I tell you, rock and roll. Everything was happening that could ever happen.

See, I feel, I'm going to give you a story. I'm just trying to get you to the story. Prepare. It's just that I feel like when the roots finally got to, like, the industry, everything just stopped. Like, 1995, everybody was, like, vegetarian. Yeah, y'all missed out on the party and shit. And, you know, the word platonic got... That's just my pal over there, you know.

Now, listen, all I can say is this. There were no rules. You were morally incorrect, period. This was nothing... The only thing we would know we had to do was work hard. That's what the mindset was work harder than anybody else. but when I tell you Sodom Gormorah

I don't know I'd have seen so much stuff but it's kids I understand we were kids too so we and with money and you know gone and people having people growing up together

I got friends so I've been 20 me and Lear is 25 years now so he was 23 no it was 30 somewhere around there and I was 23 what did you think

You weren't intimidated by Leor because I, even the people that love and respect, even people that respect Leor. If I first, if I gained a trust and first mentioned his name, I mean, at least a minuscule eye roll happens.

Like, Leor, like, the thing, like, people have there, have you dealt with Leor when you guys were Atlantic? We did. We had a meeting with him. It was, um,

interesting. I don't know. I'll be real with you. Like, I mean, and hopefully we haven't on the show. He probably wouldn't even remember to join. But for me, my meeting with Leor was very much to bring it back to the wire. It was the canard. That's Omar?

That was my moment. It was like, that's Omar? Because to me, like, he was, like, we were talking about, it was around the time when our album, I think Mitchell Show had just came out. And so we had a meeting with him. And it was just very impromptu. We were just, like, in the hallway. and he was like eating a sandwich or something

and he was just kind of standing up and you know again from seeing him like in documentaries and stuff he's like a very like intense like he looks like that kind of guy but then I met him and he was just like oh yes so Kanye drive slow I love that song like I love Kanye and I was just like oh yeah that's a cool song

but I'm about to come out nigger what you're gonna do and so it was just you know whatever I remember it was me it was all of us it was three of us me Poo and our 9th and manager Doe, and then James Lopez, who used to be at Atlanta. He was there. And so we just had that brief interaction, and then we walked off, and I remember asking James. I said, man, what do you think that is going to mean?

What just happened? Yeah, I was like, what do you think is going to mean? He was just like, man, I don't know. And that was it, you know what I'm saying? But that was the only real time I had a meeting with him. But the times I had, just that one instance, and then he came to our show, the opening night we did at BB Kings. there was like a release party or something like that. I can't remember.

We were on tour when the album just came out. And, I mean, sold out show. How many minutes? How many minutes did he stay? Yeah. I want to say he stayed for like a good, he stayed maybe called like the opening set. He probably made called like the first like 15, 20 minutes.

Wow. I think, yeah, because he could. You want to know my Def Jam president minute? Oh, shit. I'm like, I'm like, I. All right. Literally. I think

I think Jayze and Beyonce watched one verse of game theory and I turn and then he was going And I'm all over my blackbird What happened? You said,

I came? Yeah, yeah, they came. I want to say, I don't know if you were there. I know the time to, me and Kevin, it was when we did the it was a listening part

and it was somewhere downtown, I can't remember. but apparently like I remember the fire alarms kept going off that night and we had to cut it short but that was the first time that me and you had met outside the office and I remember you came up and but yeah I mean my time working with them again this is post 90 you know everybody you know stop starting doing yoga stop doing coke and shit so it's different but a win is a win a win a win I don't care what I'm saying yep that's me clipper taylor the fourth you might have seen the skits the actions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down, what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. So wait, if you just tune in Quest 11, Primo and Bend Doer. We're here with Kevin Liles.

We're trying to get Lear Cohen stories. The thing is, you know, I respect Leor. I know like, it's basically, I've heard everything about Leo Cohen. He's a liar Cohen, or he's an asshole,

or he's a good businessman, or he's honest with you. I mean, I respect because the people in my circle are so blunt and so, you know, just outright with what they are like they don't hide the truth

or anything. I mean I can respect that. So for you what was it about Leor? I mean, did Leor intimidate you in the beginning or? I always said, man, it just must be some brotherly love or such respect.

He never and this is, might be saying weird to you guys, Learer never yelled at me. Uh-uh. What did you do to not get a sandwich throwing it. He's from Baltimore. Maybe he was scared. And be honest with yourself.

What was the perception? What's the perception of you as you're slowly? First of all, how long did you intern before they said, this guy's kind of valuable. Let's cut him a check. Two years. It took two years for them to finally, and you didn't complain once?

You paid already. No, I did. It really, I was doing it for the experience. And I have to be honest with you. So if I'm not. is throwing oranges at you because the shifty single didn't get added at MTV or something. You're not having a, they don't pay me enough for this moment. Like, I looked at.

Griff's not making fun of you because. I looked at it. They were all about, they were counterparts to me. They were colleagues. I wasn't working for them. And I just looked at it differently. It's like, yo, I know what you need. I'm going to go.

I'm going to get it done. I'm going to make sure. Because I was like, but we, I like felt like I'm living. See, you know. understand something. Once you're an artist and then you get on the other side, I'm really living through all of them. So the songs they make when they're throwing a gun in there and M-E-T-A and the red, I'm living, I'm living, when I tell you, I would be on, the joke is even to this day, if you ask for what my artist, they say, where's Kevin? Stage right. I say, I would always

tell me what, the ad lib you need me to make. If they jumped in the crowd, I would jump in the crowd after them. I was just a fatherly kind of like, yo, We cruise. So I never looked at it like that. The time I got was kind of funny when a Kevin Mitchell was moving up, you know, did such a great job in the Mid-Atlantic, moving up to Nashville, take Bob Babito's job at Mick Show. So they said, well, Kevin, you know, you should come interview for the job.

I've been interning for two years doing the job. And y'all want me to come interview for the job. Cool. So engineer Kev had to come. back out. I put my whole pack, I got my briefcases, put my suit on, got my whole discography of everything, everything I did. I go up there, I'm sitting in the room, so everybody laughing at me. You got on a suit. Ah, what was in the briefcase? I said, I came here to take the job. That's what I came here to do. I'm wearing show them everything that I've done. It's like,

well, you know, good interview, you know, great and appreciate all the paperwork. One month go by, two months go by, three months go by. I'm starting to feel a certain way. Right. Because I know there's nobody better than me, especially in that area. Nobody's better than me in that. Philadelphia, D.C., Baltimore, Virginia. So then I get a call. I remember Julie calls me and says, Kevin Lousel was at a marketing gig.

She said, this is Julie from Def Jam, and Wes's assistant. We think we want you to come work with us. I said, great. She said, we want to pay you $30,000. dollars. I'm like, you don't realize how much money I'm making up, okay, okay? I said, well, I said, well, I can work with y'all for that. Julie said, no, you'll work for us for that. That's my Julie story, yeah. So we, it's, I just never worried about it, man. Wond about the money, anything

to me. That's interesting to hear because I, at least for me, Leor, Liles, Julie, sometimes Mike, Like all your names are synonymous with each other. So you guys all started together at Def Jam minus Leor at in lower positions? Like when Julie came in, when did she? Julie was Wes's, Julie was interning and working at Rush. Then when Lear went over to Def Jam, Julie came, was working with Wes, assisting Leo a little bit and then started working with Wes. Mike Kaza was working at Tower Records

and Russell lived on top of Tower Records. Wait, that's how Mike got hired? So he said, yo, you do a good job with that. You know, you want to do Ready Hall? Wait a minute. How'd I missed those days. Time about, hang on. I'm exclusive.

I'm editing the story a little bit, but he met him in Tower Records. That's how he started? I remember because I was in Baltimore then. I remember them saying, yo, you're going to do rhythm radio. And I'm like, well, damn, rhythm radio is white. Why didn't you give it to God? So why didn't give it to them? But they put guys in a desk and said, you're going to do rhythm radio.

He became one of the number one rhythm radio, you know, people out there. And that's my moment. But did he have experience? He worked at Tower Records. So, like, research. I mean, you know, that's the truth. But yeah, but you got to understand something with, so every time Julie went, you know, me, we were like brother and sisters, you know what I mean?

So it's like, that's like family. People talk about Leo, I never, Leo's the kind of guy if we went to war today, he's going to be, throw me the fucking bullets. I don't take offense to that because we're at war. I understand. And it's intense. And it's intense.

And I understand. I don't, that's not, you know what I mean? No idiot. I say he just never went there with me. But here's the other thing, though. When he looked to his right, when he looks to his right, when he looked stayed right, he know he ain't worry about that either.

That's the difference. I'm not, I'm going to be there before him. I'm going to make sure everything's right. To this day, I'm going to make sure it's right. Russell, I'm going to make sure it's right. To this day, they changed my life. They changed the trajectory of my family. They gave me first generation money.

It's something else, baby. So I might always pay respect to them. Was, did you really, did you have a relationship with Russell? And where is, like, if you think Def Jam, you're always going to think Russell Simmons. But, you know, I know that in 91, he had sort of this octopus vision of developing the clothes line and developing Def comedy. Deaf comedy jam was like more than 92, 93, I think. Yeah, a lot of time, yeah.

But still, I know that the higher ups at Sony were kind of indifferent. And then, like, can you explain the RAL period because the Rust Associated Labels period? Because from my point of view, as a fan who always read Billboard every week and charted stuff, I always love the fact and kind of hated the fact that you guys, Def Jam used to formally flaunt, well, you know, we've only been out for five years with five artists. And, you know, it's just like LL to Slick Rick and Matt's it. it and then third base and then that's it and then one day in 1990 it was like all these russ associated artists came through the door resident alien and the don yeah oh yeah yeah yeah so

with all with suddenly like 12 to 13 acts to deal with and kind of losing their uniqueness what it do you know what the environment was with with with motola and donnie high and the Sony higher-ups with Def Jam and what caused the eventual Exodus to Polygram was next, correct? So what was that period between 91 and 93 where things were a little cloudy with what made Def Jam once, just the powerhouse that it was? Like, what was that environment like, especially like with you and Russ? Were you more a Leor guy or a Russ guy? Like, was Russ the Beatles and Leor was the Rolling.

stones and you had to choose what side you were? Never had to choose because Russell was a visionary. Leor was tasked with all Lear wanted to do was be the greatest record man. He didn't care about

Fat Farm or comedy that wasn't his thing. You know what I mean he really wanted to build a great American record company. And at that time he got the rock. So Russell Associated labels, quote-to-quote, Russell and Lear. Oh, that's what it was.

Oh, R. I never knew that. It was Russell and Leo. So it was just before it's time. Now, I'm a sound kind of nerdy here. We're nerds. It's the place. You're in a room full of nerd.

Sometimes as visionaries, you try to put things into play that it's not just time. We didn't have the infrastructure. built to support a quote-to-quote associated label venture. But if you think about four or five years later, after the infrastructure, stability, people came to work and all that kind of stuff. We were able to do Rockefeller, Murder, Inc. It was a great vision. But the infrastructure, too early at the time because the infrastructure.

It gave me hope. The infrastructure wasn't right. But it was those days, man, like I said, everybody wanted, you know, Rick was gone and everybody wanted to prove they were the next A and a great A and R and this one knew this one. But the real fact of most of the artists that I've ever signed in my life were referred to me by our artists. Like? Wait, we're not going to get there yet. He let me, did you see?

I'm saying, like, that was really like, if you think about it, to me it's six degrees of separation. You want to, you got E P&D on the road and this kid, Karen scratches crates. his name is Redman. Wow. I mean, I can, you know, Shaka Zulu, who we both know, worked for me, was at the college radio station.

He had a friend called Chris Lover Lover, who was on a radio. Chris Lover, Lover, and Poon, Daddy. You wanted to, you know. Wait, time out. You lived in Atlanta as well.

I transferred from Morgan and went to CAU. Oh, my God. And I worked at D. I worked at D.103 for Brack Street where he was against Chris Lover, Lover, and Poon, Daddy.

and Lala. I don't trust nobody that has more than 12 addresses before the age of 21. By the way. So go ahead and continue. I'm sorry. So, no, it's like,

so I always met people through other people. And it wasn't until the whole research thing came that I started to see things outside of the people that I knew. But I knew everybody

who knew, you could touch somebody with any, you know, we just, I can't say, But there's this kid that's blowing up someplace right now, and we just did a big deal with him. And it's, we heard it, somebody said it was popping, and we got it in and got it first.

So it's like, it's changing now, but I really believe we got a kid named Johnny Stevens from Holly Suspect rock band, number one rock record right now. I believe he's gonna find the next star in rock. I believe that we did the deal with Young Thug for YSL. I believe that Young Thug puts out so much music and everybody wants to. A whole track. Yeah, he is like, and so I just believe.

So you believe in connectors and bridges. Yes, yes. That's an important thing. Good way to put it. It is important. So when Def Jam, what was the transferring from leaving Sony to Polygram? Were you at all worried that you guys might lose your cachet or you'd, uniqueness or that it might go under or having to deal with like who is who is the

matola and the the donnie ioner of polygram at this point when you guys go there in 94 hmm hmm wow the hit of distribution was Jim caparro I think uh who is the wow I really honestly I can't remember damn is that bad that bad my mind is that bad I can't remember But let me tell you what I never You put Leo and Russell together

I don't see how you fail So I never I didn't I see how you Was it that Sony Just didn't understand them or No I think it was We are welcome

You can yell at people so much To a point where People might And you understand This was early, early days Of our culture you know and so you going up into Tommy's has there been a

Tommy Lee or a moment of sandwiches exchanged I never saw it heard about some conversations you know I heard Russell flipped over a couple of desks and things like that but I never never experienced it myself wow okay so I know that at least my perception is that in 94, the anchor record of that year

that really established Def Jam to the next decade was Warren G's album. Now, let me tell you really what it was. The first record we released from Columbia, to Columbia to Polygram, Sony to Polygram, Domino. It was Domino. Saturday morning. Yeah, ghetto jam.

Yeah, ghetto jam, yep. Okay, so by that point, you know, you were heavy, at least in your knowledge of East Coast, you know, the Baltimore. I would assume that you were the DMV guy, the tri-state area guy, you might know down South markets. Did you know West Coast at all? Like, who was there to really let you guys know? Or was it just like the Chronics ripple was so strong that it was like, we got to grab. whoever guessed it on Dr. Draze's a chronic record and give them a deal now.

I mean, I'm saying I can put it. So you cut me open, I'm hip-hop. So NWA, you couldn't talk too short. It's like I was a fan. I was a fan. I'm young still. I'm a fan. So to me...

Wait, I just want to say, as an East Coaster, I want to meet a person that had my my viewpoint on what the West Coast was because I wasn't open to West Coast hip-hop I mean, I mean, I heard fuck the police and like I gave him, okay,

I'll give you guys an exception and ice Q working with the bomb squad. But like, for the most part, there's no way you could tell me that the West Coast was going to outdo the East Coast ever culturally or sales-wise. And then suddenly one day

it was like New York just lost. It's, It's steam. Yeah, but why can't you tell? I never look, again. Well, I was young and dumb, all right. I was a weirdo because I looked at it, the story that needed to be told,

needed to be told by different tongues. And a Baltimore story, New York story, there's still a ghetto story in the West Coast. Everywhere. You know, never where you go. And so to me, I really looked at it as storytelling. Nama one was a joke,

but then there was fuck the police, but they both saying kind of the same thing to me. So I really looked at it as storytelling. And we went into it with Def Jam West. Paul Stewart hired P&P. Yeah, hired him.

First record I think was this is how we do it. Yeah, Montel Jordan. But prior to that, this is how I learned the West Coast. There was a group called, a guy called Mello from Compton and a group called South Central Cartel.

Yeah, they was the original havoc and there were other heavy in the middle. So they said they want to do a West Coast promo tour and they loved how I put together promo toys and so I got in a car we went from Seattle

all the way down to San Diego over to Phoenix and Colorado. You couldn't tell me nothing that I know the West Coast did. I wrote the Bible of what should be done but I was in Compton. I remember my first, I'm going to tell you a story

Let me let you go. Okay. I'm in Compton. And we call a bodega today, but, you know, it's their version of the bodega. So I'm getting some iced tea back then and then bottles started shaking.

So I'm like, who the fuck is back there? What the fuck are you doing? I'm mad like, yo, stop fucking with me. The lady said, you're in the middle of an earthquake. I said, oh, shit. I said, oh, shit.

Oh no, what is going? And that was the Northridge. The big one, the big one. Oh, man. So you was in the corner store. I was in Compton. You know what I mean? Bontden.

Yo, I said, what? No. Why are you singing? Because I got him starting. I hate you, I hate you, man. He got a song for everything. You know every reference. It's the best commercial ever.

Oh, goodness. I don't know I told that story, but that's my love for, my love for the, I lived there twice in my life, and I just appreciate storytellers being able to tell them, no matter what it was, I just appreciated people telling the story. So, I mean, you had no internet back then. I mean, now anyone could have the power, I mean, the power that you had,

Googling something, finding out, okay, where can I, you know, where can I promote this record or hang these posters or bring my group to meet those things? But you're saying you're writing the Bible on this. Like, who's giving you your research to know this particular market, that particular market, this particular market? Touching the people. You find the hot girl and the guy, the hustler. And you go and you go to the mall.

You say, where y'all going tonight? This was real. So you generally like people. No, because if we were to take a Questlove Supreme. All right, a slight detour, special news report. Oh, boy. Fonte, do you like people?

Oh, ho. Sugar Steve, do you like people? I love good people. I hate shitheads. You're lying out to add. I already know you hate people. You hate everyone. I love people. You know I do. I love people.

She's a people person. She is. Bill D. Believer? I don't believe anything she says. Margaret. You've lived in too many places to tell the truth. She's made enemies in all the places. I like you.

I think I think unpaid bill is the only person in the circle that actually likes. But you know what, though, I think, I mean, just from listening to this story. I hate people for the record. Now, I'm with you. I love you guys, but I hate people. No, I'm with you. This is what's the saying hell is other people? I can't remember who is it.

But no, I think from listening what he's saying, from what I kept saying, you know, when you're talking about how it wasn't. and about, you know, I plan to be the president, you just want to add value to a situation. You know what I mean? And so to me, like, I'm in that way, like, I don't, do I like people, no, but if you give me a job and say, do this job, then I'll do what I got to do because I want to deliver on the job.

So if I got to go talk to people, if I can't just look, oh, how many followers do this nigga got? Like, I got to really actually do that. I would do that. So it makes sense to me. My join is like, all right, my goal and this is not like a thing where you're thinking of riches and all that stuff but in general

my thing was always like yo I just want to take care of my mom and sugar Steve reparations for the diabetes no just take care of my mom put out some fires

Yeah, and sugar Steve. Put out some fires which basically take care of... If you're black, you're automatically taking care of least seven to 14 people in your life just to put out the fire, you know. Like, did I think

back in 1998, like, ooh, okay, let me... Oh, I'm gonna be on the late night show one time. You know, no, hell no, I didn't... I don't think anybody sees that far, though. I don't think anybody sees that far. I get you not seeing that. But...

You do kind of have this live each day to the fullest, connect with people, remember names, you know, and never burn a bridge. At, like, I don't hear Kevin Lowe's stories like I hear, and I'm gonna get to the you and Dame history, but I never hear Kevin Lowe's stories like I hear Russell Simmons. Like, is he really that nice as he proceeds? Pre-yoka.

Well, not even nice. But, I mean, like, your reputation, even if, like, there's not even rumors about you doing someone shady or any of those things. I'll tell you. So some people would, here's what I get from people. I might not remember everybody's name. But obviously, it's like tonight, I have to get something from each one of you. you guys or why be in the room. So I'm meeting you and sharing things and I'm meeting people all over the world. But obviously God put me in that place for a reason. So I have to share

a part of myself. So I wear my heart on my sleeve. And when you wear your heart in the sleeve, you fear none. You just don't worry about you. Just make people feel like they met you. Not like you just. But what about the shitheads? You're not talking about the shit. So let me tell you about shit heads. I met a couple of shit heads. But I even understand them. Some people, that's the only way they could survive. And so, I'm not trying to get philosophical or be a psychologist.

No, go in. This is what we do. I just, I just, I really believe that I was put here for a greater purpose. And that purpose might, Jesus walked amongst the thieves, the killers, the liars, to make a way. Shihah is cool. You're not going to change who I am. Matter of fact, I'm going to work on being so nice, so nice, that hopefully you understand

that you don't need to be as much of a shahead. Damn, Miles, I wish I knew you way back then. Is that like meditation? Where were you at my first Deaf GM audition? I want to get some motivational speaking from lives like in the morning when I wake up. Yeah, exactly.

But seriously, though, how do you maintain that? Is that motivation? I mean, motivation. Is it meditation? Is that a hindsight? Or was that you... Is this hindsight speaking? Or is this in 1994? I'm not...

Okay, now I want to get to the artist you had to deal with. Because... The shit is. I know. Where you got to put on this? shit to you. Right, because I'm saying that as an artist, I know the plight of the artist and I know the plight of the employee at the label and management company. And some of the

biggest clashes ever in mankind are are with artists and managers or the other side of the table. So that said, okay, now that Def Jam is 10 years old, at least in this timeline, how are the older established well minus LL who actually Weird enough had the biggest mark of his career 10 years into his career I mean I assume that Mrs. Smith surpassed

Mama said knock you out as far as comebacks are concerned but I mean at this rate a lot of your first generation acts you guys were dealing with slick Rick and his jail incident First of all how how did you guys

even managed to get 18 songs out of Slick Rick with six weeks of his life before he's about to do five years. What was that period like? I was a, that was more so like a intern period for me. You know, I was just coming up and the Slick Rick story was, Rick was a storyteller. So he just knew he had to do write a lot of records. And it was... He was on his Gucci man. He would... Listen, when I tell you, Rick...

And Rick is a good friend. And I'm hoping to answer the question right, because I'm going to go outside of Rick. I think my job at that time was to preserve legacy with those guys and understand that Todd, you put the D in Def Jam, Public Enemy, you put the E in Def Jam, slick Rick, you put the F in Def Jam.

You know, I had to, so I treated them like that. I didn't treat them like they were old. I didn't treat them like they were yesterday. I treated them like they were important in today. And this is why, to this day, you know, Rick and Mandy, or call me and say, hey, we just want to tell you we love you. Todd and say, yo, you know, come, me and Simone doing this chukka, sent me and say, yo, great podcast.

You know, I still get, and so that moment, and I remember when we did behind bars, Right now when he was locked, you know. Yeah, the warranty. Yeah, yeah. That was my shit, man. I love that joint. That was.

Mr. Slick, Rick, won't you? How'd y'all do that? How'd y'all make a record? And then I did it again with Sean when he was behind bars. I did his. Is that the godfather buried alive? Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

I did it. And when they're recording under this duress, like how, I'm just trying to figure out how are they able to even produce results with that imaginary gun to their head? Like they have to... I don't think when it's arc, it's what you do. It's like telling a guy, you've got to build a house instead of a year, you've got to build it in six months. It might be impossible.

He still knows how to build a house. And so I think that at the end of the day, these kids, I think that in the day, these kids, I think then they felt that they decided to feed their family. And when you work and to feed your family, you're not writing records. Right. You're surviving, you know? Well, speaking of behind bars, I got to give a shout out to the Warren G remix to Behind Bar. This is Behind Barz.

On Quest Love Supreme. We're here with Super Guru, Kevin Lowell. Now I'm a guru. On Quest Love Supreme. You are, bro. Check this out. This Warren G, you know what I'm saying? chilling with my man slick Rick, you know,

and we're gonna give y'all a little tale about that jail stuff, you know? So Rick, why don't you run it, homie? Yeah. In the slammer kid, but I'm innocent. Lord played with. He wasn't having any pity. Now in razor blades sit. Crys opposed to situations.

See mad eyes opposed to those. Hey, yo, money, what size of those? Neither phone me to another sprang up. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no, I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl,

Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters. when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider,

you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. That was behind bars by Slick Rick. Oh, the Borgie remix. That's right.

The Warren G remix of Behind Bars on Quest Love Supreme. There's one question I want to ask you. So by this point, in 94, I can say that you're safely in the Def Jam office, not an intern. What was you guys' reaction to music in our message by Public Enemy? Oh, my God. Because I remember the day that Ursula Smith and, well, back when set to run, you guys had so many Russ associated companies. But when Ursula became her own publicity firm, she was our first, the Roots first publicist. And I used to just always hang out of her office.

And she called me in, says, I'm here, I got the new public enemy. album, you want to hear it. And that was one of the most coldest days ever. Because because every public enemy album from nation of millions, well, every, there was three. Yeah, right. Bumrusted show. Yeah. Well, four. I forgot. Yeah. Even with Bumruss the show, like every time I listened to a public enemy album for the first time, it was such a life-changing moment. And for me, it was like, wow, can they do this to me for a fifth time? No, the answer was yes. In the wrong way.

It was in the wrong way. But in hindsight, they were on to something because they were five years before the rage against the machine, you know, rock rap thing. But, I mean, I had the same reaction. I had the same open mouth jar-jopped. Are they allowed to do this? Like, it was such a radical. what were you guys please be explicitly. Chuck's been very honest about how you guys felt about it.

When you got the record, what did y'all talk about? Didn't know what to do. Like, did Chuck played in front of you guys and looked at your faces or just like... Didn't know what to do. Because at least with Apocalypse 91, you're like, okay, I can work with that. I can figure that. I can get this. I can work with that. But here's the great thing about

right than about Def Jam. Once you proved yourself, who am I to judge? That's where we're going? Don't know what to do, but okay. We're going to see what it is. Well, it was also, well, not the second

of the last album, because that was he got game. But how, like there was just no precedent for, I mean, there was the goats, you know, the goats were kind of mixing, they were rocking and they were rocking and rap, and Rage Against the Machine had one album out beforehand, but did you guys at least have a warning

that, you know, because by that point, even though I mean, Wutang still wasn't a fully formed figurehead and, you know, the group that we will worship. So in my mind, like, Public Enemy still had run DMC status to that point in 94.

And then I don't know, maybe I just felt they were so angry at, were they angry at you guys? Were they angry? Was it just like? A lot of anger. A lot of anger. What was the relationship like? Because I would think that they were your crown jewel. Like, you know, this is the group that gets white critics respect and.

They always would be the crown jewel, but you got to understand when you're kids and you grow up together, sometimes the big brother, little brother thing comes into play. And when you finally got a point where you sold a left record, you want to do what you want to do too. So a lot of that has to come. You got to, they were young kids, man. You're talking about back then, you know, Todd, 15, 16,

and they're going all over the world. You know what I mean? Public enemy, you know, people with them, people not with them, people against them, people, they fighting wars that, you know, grift the, it's so much. So you had to allow that to happen. And what I, I'll say and talk to you about it, but when a rock act or a pop act, when they make that album that you don't, what's that? We just say it was just a time for them.

When Public Indian had that moment, again, they were early. I'm with you. They were just early. And we wasn't built for that. We just wasn't built for it. And that was the, but that was their expression. So who were we to judge? Was there disappointment in their end of you guys not finding?

Because even then, I just thought like, oh, they're over. They lost it. And I had no clue that it was later when I found out like, oh, because Ursula, their publicists had to figure out how to market them. And somehow she got glowing reviews out of Vibe magazine. Well, Toray roasted them with like a two-star review, Rolling Stone. But for the most part, she got a lot of rock alternative press love that I wasn't even expecting them to get.

And thus, they started slowly creeping into alternative tours out the norm. They opened up another lane from them. Right, not just rap shows. Like, oh, okay, there are C white people and rockheads that want to hear. Bring the noise. Right, this stuff. And I didn't know. That was the message to you could, in hip hop, create mini lanes.

And what they did was, you got to think back then, nobody was thinking that. Even with Beastie being what it was, nobody would ever think P.E. would go there. You know what I mean? You got a certain thing. from P.E. You know what I mean? Nobody ever thought that they would go there, but what I just Chuck was saying and again, I can't quote it

because I don't remember my... This is where we are. Is this where we are? One of the more amazing comeback stories in my mind for Def Jam was that Mr. Smith album.

And I didn't, I personally didn't think he could do it a third time. You know? It's like, no, well, it's like, you know, He's at third now, what were the first two times for me? Well, his initial L-N-L in this run. And even though I was a fan of walking with the panther, you're the only one in the room.

Look, it came out the last day of school. It was a special room and I graduated. That was my soundtrack of the summer. I like dropping them. And then, you know, Mama said knock you out was like the comeback, even though we weren't supposed to call that. and then, you know, once The thing was I read the source review

of 14 shots of the dome. Which, you know. Backseat of my Jeep was on 14 shots. Yeah. Backseat and how I'm coming. What was the other scene? Pink cookies. Now that remix, the remix was not on that record.

The remix wasn't, yeah. Had that remix been on the record, I would have given it. Something different. Another half. Right, I would get it a half. But. But, you know, I mean, the legend is that Russell lost his mind at the source review and words were exchanged and all this stuff.

But all that happened. Pretty much people counted LL out. And I guess he wisely just stayed silent for a year, all of 94. And then the first we saw him with his new ballhead and stuff was in the flavoring your ear remix. So was there a marketing plan to? to bring LL back or was it just like, here's some spaghetti and throw it on the wall and see what sticks?

Todd, and if you speak to him, he'll tell you. Let me tell you something, me. Phenomenal, B. Phenomenal. What up, y'all? I was like his good luck charm. And Mr. Smith, you know, God bless Chris Lyddy. That was the last tie down we worked on together

because he left soon after that. You gotta understand something. L.L. Cool, J is hot. I used to DJ, man. You couldn't tell me no. No rapper camera. I was a fan fan. So you mean to tell me that L.L?

No, that's, he was the icon to me. I tried. Todd? So it was no way that he was that. He was always going to be this to me, to me. So I treated him like that. And you're saying this, I mean, you're pointing up on a higher level. Yeah, he was always that to me.

And so to me, I never looked at it as him making a comeback. I thought every album was an experimentation of where he was as an artist. and certain things he tried. Because even on 14 shots, I was trying to say, yo, back seat is the record. You guys, the back seat is the record.

I said, that pink cookie, what we talk to talk to talk, we gotta have a conversation about that. That backseat. You weren't into metaphor is damn. I said, we had that real conversation.

I wasn't either. But it was, I have to be honest with you, that is why today we're still friends because we went through every moment that you can go through. I remember when he dropped Headstrong. His drum, yeah.

The Timberland record. And he, that was his last number one album, 200,000 copies. And he called me and said, you always believed in me. You never stop believing in me. I'm going to love you better. That was a record, yeah.

He said, you never stopped. And until his day, So I've never looked at it like come back and come, I never looked, because again, these were, they were friends too. So what, you know, now, did we have to go to work? Do we have to do things differently? Do we have to go see different? Yeah, we had to do that. But that's what it's all about to me.

That's what evolution is all about. It's not about, I'd rather have the hard time. How about this? Let me do that because you're going to remember me. You're going to know I went there was with you the whole time and figured it out with you. So for a record like Mr. Smith and for the potential singles that it had, there's one important element in the story that we kind of didn't mention, which was the uprise and the power that a certain New York radio station had,

which was Hot 97. Hope I'm allowed to say that, you know, on my own show, on Panto. Scott, yeah, is that allowed? You're good. Okay, okay. I just need to be technical. Not that I would expect you to give me the dirty lowdown. But, I mean, by this point, especially with 1996 coming up in the rate, what's the, the telecommunications Act?

Yeah, the telecommunications act. God damn. Fonte. What the fuck. You like a paralegal. You deserve your own noise. Don't you like if that even the guests go to Fonte for a fact check? That was a Fonte, fact check.

And then he looked at by the, right? Yeah, yeah. Fact check. Fact check. Fact checker. I know that you guys were playing to win. I know that by this point, bad boys really established, trying to establish themselves as the sheriff of the block.

Oh, God, I didn't even mention death row. You know, there are other labels that are vying for that number one spot. And we know that, and for the most part, in an hour, you could probably squeeze in six to seven songs. You guys are starting your muscle period, at least of, you know, of about to, you know, show who's what. No, but I'm just saying that it's true, though. It's a nice way to say it. You know, is this Samaras Levy Part 2 thing? How do you muscle radio to stay on your side?

Like, is it like, yo, I'm really feeling that song doing it. Okay, I'm going to just play it a whole 42 billion times. Or is it a new level of shaking hands and kissing babies that you probably can't technically get into? Like, has that ever stopped? Let me say this to you. And I can say this. Not one thing ever with Hot 97. With Hot 97.

No, I'm telling him. He's acting about hot. We talk about Hot 97. Right. Well, yeah. I mean, well, you know, we live in New York City. And Hot 97 is the station that if Flex is feeling it, then chances are that the ripple effect's going to happen, and this guy in Cleveland is going to play it.

This station, Seattle's going to play it. But the thing is, is that I wouldn't believe that, okay, a fan is calling in, yes, I need to hear doing it by L.L. Like, again. I know, wait, but let me give you the truth, though. So. Like, you're a guy that had hits. You have hits under your belt. Right.

How do you make sure those hits keep coming and that they're, and I mean, like, a social. Now, for you, a good day of radio rotation is how many times, at its height, how many times do you want your hit song played a day on one station? Is it 35 times a day? I don't think any one particular record would play 35 times a day because if it did, it would play 35 times seven and whatever. But let me give you this. And I'm not, this is not a hostile gotcha question.

No, no, you can never. I just want to know the science of how, like, for me growing up and remembering radio, it was like the DJ wants to be the cool dude and, hey, I'm going to put you on to this record. Oh, I might play this album cut. Where now it's like I don't think, you know, you guys, a label with frown on in album cut. Like, if it were up to me, Mr. Smith, I would play that no airplay joy. No airplay, right? We love no airplay.

This is why we're going to do this. So y'all are men who wouldn't play hey-lover. What is wrong with y'all? No, see, I would play the Eric Serbian remix of Aangelova. I actually, girl, you know it's true, and didn't get caught, and I don't want to mention it and get a lawsuit on. So I'm just going to say that, okay, a record like doing it. What are you expecting Hot 97,

how many times do you want to hear it in a 24-hour period? Heavy rotation. I mean, is that 18 times a day? So I think at that particular time it was probably most price 62 times in a week. So if you're going by a week. You're not going by daily. No, because you, because program changed over the weekend. They go to weekend programming.

It's different stuff. And back then it was call out. You know what I mean? Where the record called out. And there still is now. But now it's BPM and all these different kind of metrics that are going on. But I have to say what people forgot and what we tried to, radio was. the last stop with us.

Okay. We're doing it, Quest, if you came to the tunnel with me and heard what Cap did, God rest of soul, um, and the walking hour,

and then what Flex did, doing it, drinks got spilled. As soon as that beginning came on, it was, and we made all, made sure all our records that we went to radio with,

they had to get, we called it the tunnel. If you're playing between 12 and 3 o'clock in the tunnel, get at me, dog. When we dropped, get at me, though. We knew it wasn't going to be a big radio record, but it lit the tunnel up. Redman, the Method Man,

How high? No, no, yeah. La, la la, la. Rock water. The rock water. It was the two verses in the double. It was an interlude. It was nothing.

But when you went to the tunnel, No place with Craig. And so my thing is... So who do you have to convince at whatever radio... I'm not even going to sing on Hot 97. Who do you have to convince at... First of all, are you at this point talking to a clear channel person who controls 100 stases across the... Are you telling them?

Not back then. So you had individual... Individual program director. So back then it was Steve Smith and Tracy Clare. High 97. Today is Thea Mitchum and G. Where's at Power 105? I'm just for New York. I mean, there's a lot of, but then now there's clusters.

Right. So Thea runs a cluster, and there's Doc Winter who runs the urban cluster for all of Clear Channel. And then there's Jay Stevens for Radio 1 cluster. And then there's Ken Johnson and for one of those down the south, whatever. So it's clustered now, but back then. was individual program directors and music directors. Okay, so I'll say a few episodes back.

We have former president, B, and former, still president of BET. No, I'm sorry. It is February. It's loose. And Stephen Hill mentioned one of his regrets when he first worked at MTV was that he probably could have lit a fire under them to really give more support to,

you're all I need to get by, I'm Method Man. Emerge Abbey. Mergey Blige. And now in my head, I was like, wait, that record was everywhere. So of course, he's like, nope. He's like, it could have been even stronger. It could have been so much more bigger

and way ubiquitous. So for a record like that, you know, how do you convince? First of all, why would people, Why would people have resistance to it? Because there was just an unorthodox sounding street song. I think Method Man had more to do

why people didn't go immediately on that record. Because in my head, I was just like, oh, this is an instant hit. No, it was an instant hit, but you got to understand something. So back then, people wanted to be safe. And Method Man wasn't safe for them. That wasn't safe? The record was safe.

Method Man wasn't safe. So you're saying that the personality also... Also matters. Yes. Yes. Really? So, listen, I had a record. So I'm going to give you...

I would say, you know, Migos right now. Right. Bad and bougie. I'm about to say, that's true life has changed for you since Donald Glover a long time ago during the Golden Globe show like a month or two back

gave a shout out now it's just... Shout out to Donald Glover. Who Chee? So we couldn't get Migos on late night TV. Brum? I'll talk to you about that.

We couldn't... We couldn't... I would love them on the tonight show. Magazines. couldn't get certain things and so the group was like well why can't why can't we and then the moment happened

and now everybody fighting over everybody and so I can only say this to you to say radio didn't see them there was a club group you know radio didn't see them a certain way TV didn't see them a certain way and you got to think about method man

at that time he was kind of dirty looking he started That was the moment we started to clean the money. But I thought he was the accessible route. But can I just say, just for the record, somebody, our PD told me once that the roots didn't have enough personality. Like, if you really think that is not like that, like that is like really important.

And I was like, what are you talking about? I told you that. And I'm sitting in the road fighting. Like, what are you talking about? Questlove does this? And you'd be surprised at the whole personality thing. Well, that's the thing. Like, what really determines a hit?

Like, can we? Because, you know, I came from an era where it was like, hey, if we just get somebody to sing some R&B, hit hook over it. You guys are going to have a hit. And that's not necessarily the case. And then, you know, it's like if you fall into a nepotism loop, okay, let's take Foxy Brown.

Am I to assume that Ais Chacha was her first appearance? First appearance. Yeah, I don't know. Shatcha Remixie. Or was it ain't no Nick. Like, no, my shot you was 95. I think, I think, to be honest with you, I think her first appearance was I shot you. And then it was, no, I mean, it's 20 years ago.

So would have been, would it have been a hard sale for you guys to push, got to get you home, or, I'll be good. I'll be the, the day, Angela joint. Right. Would have been harder for you guys to promote her. Had she not had the nepotism association of being on a posse cut, first doing a good job on a posse cut, but I don't even think doing a good job or doing a bad job even matters today in 2016. But no, back then it was like, oh shit, she's been.

Not she came off. Right. And she looked good. So this is a can't lose situation. Like to break out an artist of that level, was it a hard? art cell? Like, do you have to have a pinpoint board and whiteboard and do all these, like, mathematic theories for radio programmers to see your vision on a Foxy Brown or a child? Someone unproven. So, it's a, it's, okay. So our secret sauce was we never worked just a record. We

always believe we were working a brand. So Foxy wasn't about What was the record, the big record? Get you home? It wasn't just get you home. It was about as much as get you home as a shot you. It was the same amount of effort because we were building a brand. And building a brand, you've got to lay a solid foundation. So it was never about radio to me.

The radio became, okay, I got the street locked, I got the sheet. People respect her. Okay, we put it with this person. Okay, we put it on this tour. Okay, now we're ready for that. But does it help to also have the Def Jam logo? In other words, like, well, not. I can say, well, just as a...

Have you ever got... What's a heartbreaking no that you got during your stretch? Okay. Jay hates, and I think he does it just to be an asshole sometimes. He hates in my lifetime. Like, just the... I think, you know... I don't like it, whatever.

Volume one, like that album? Oh, volume one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, yeah. Well, no, no, no. Is that the one that had touched my heart? Is that I can't believe. I had my sunshine.

Yeah, sunshine. Yeah, it was sunshine. Yeah, it was sunshine. Now, adjoin like sunshine. How are you guys working sunshine? And to the point where now Dame's like, yo, we got to make a street movie real quick and get them back to home base and establish the street cred. Because I didn't even see it as like, oh,

you're losing your street career by rhyming over with babyface. It was a reach. But wait, it's almost like, I'm sorry, only because the Flaming and Lips were recently on the Tonight Show a long time ago. And I think about the whole new, I think about the whole New Rock Flaming Lips video fiasco where it's like,

where it was like, And I'm like, you shot the video with him. Right. How did you not know that? But for me, he recorded the record. He made the video and he was obviously reaching. Yeah, it's like, it's a commitment. It's like saying I accidentally posted a picture of Instagram.

No, you didn't. You know what I mean? The steps to take the post picture to Instagram? I think he made a, I think he experimented it, made a record. But why couldn't a song like Sunshine, which by the numbers, should have won. But that's just wasn't a good song, though. But what is a good song during that period?

Was it effective or not? Right. That shit was ineffective. But the thing is that, okay, give me... Okay. What's... The sunshine is 97. I'm trying to think...

Give me a job rule. Either put it on me or... I mean, all of them. Putting it on me. Prank. Crying on me. What was the one of the Steve Do I do sample?

Cry together. Everybody's living it up. That was the living it up, joy. It's the formula. Okay, okay, let's take a living up. I actually would give the advantage to living it up more than sunshine. I kind of fuck with it.

But I'm trying to think of just a hit for Def Jam that was like, it's a hit. Okay, let's go with Gotta get you home. That was annoying. That was. a jam. Well, it was a hit because it was a hit. It was like

you were told Illmatic was a classic. Was it a classic? You instantly, you were told instantly. I read it Illmatic. Right. Like it's almost like your hand was forced on it. Like you were. Why wasn't why wasn't the machine

that built by 1997 you guys had a formula so amazingly like bulletproof? why couldn't that work for sunshine? Because I believe good records work and bad ones don't.

Wow. That shit won't jamming. And by the way, I love the record. And I worked the record. I was mad at people. Y'all not going to play baby face, foxy,

you're not going to play that? And I took, offense to it, but the art of being a promo guy, there will be another record. I'm never worried about whether people would play the record or not,

because I'm going to come back with them again. And guess what? Jay's next album, I reminded them. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, time out, time out. Because I really want to talk to you about your Rockefeller relationship with Damon Dash, and I know you're so tired of talking about the jackets and

I was never tired of talking about the jackets. He was tired of talking about it. Shout out to dame. So he comes at you guys with the song that's like 77 beats per minute. It wasn't even a jam, so to... Right. You're talking about Hard Knock Life.

Hard Not Life is a hard song to... to blend in, mixing. It's very slow. I mean, in today's environment where the average song is 82 beats per minute. Yeah, you mix shit with don't by Bryson Tillers or something. Yeah, like, sick of work in 2016. But back in 1998,

there was no, the average meter was 97, 98, 99. He's coming at you with a record that's 82BPMs as a bunch of kids singing. You know, it was a risk, like a Broadway song. Broadway, yeah. Delivery's weird. Yeah, how Did you guys

Now that to me was the hell Mary Throw of all hell Mary's I think the novelty was part of it Just because in fact that it was a very slow song With the whole bunch of kids Or the ironic song of him rhymed Because he tried it again with anything And that didn't work

Yeah I think it was a moment in time I don't think that could ever be repeated And it was a JZ moment But was there a What do you call it A Catalyst

When you're Was there a sort of a gunside thing like we can't fumble this one? And wait, let's not even look at it as a fumble because the album went platinum. Yeah, I don't think it would be honest with you. Again, I never looked at it. Jay-Z's brand to us, Rockefeller's brand to us, because we had things that was very successful and we had things that didn't work. You know, but his brand was so important to us,

his friendship was so important to us that it just wasn't about. one particular record. I know with Hove, he's going to always make that record because I believe he's that guy. That's another one of those. You know what I mean? That I would do anything for it because I know his, he's, he's, just as an MC, he wanted those, man. And Heart Knocked Life, you got, that couldn't work for everybody. Everybody couldn't do, they couldn't do that. That they couldn't do. And so he was, it was the one-on-one for him. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same problem. prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

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Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12. and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. If you're just tuning in, we're heading to our final hour with Kevin Lowns talking about his time as president of Def Jam at the turn of the century.

What was it like daily just dealing with Dame Dash on one line by this point? I know, was Irv Gotti a hard? I know you're going to say

that, nobody was hard to deal with. No, no, I'm going to tell you. But an intense level. Dane was challenging. Okay, good. Irv, and if you talk to him to this day, Irv, to me, when I left, if Irv didn't implode the way he did around his whole thing and Dane didn't implode the way he did,

they were being prime to take over. And I'm just, I, they were real, I mean, I'm being honest. Do you still feel that they have the business acumen to at least advance the wisdom that they've gained? Because I just refuse to believe that they're that damn disposable. It was like, oh, a moment of time. I don't think they moment in time. I think they made choices and decisions that they have to live by.

And I think if Irv wanted to be in the business, he could be in the business. I think that Dame has chose a different. You got to understand something. Dane came up, it was a trifectar with them. You know what I mean? So I'm sure that goes through, you know, some people, it's like I said, I know, I can do it by myself, but I don't want to do it by myself.

That's why me and Lear have been together, you know, my whole career, per se. So some people don't want to do it by itself. I really don't think Dane wants to do it by itself. And that's to be quite honest. You know, I'm not sure why. But in Irv, I talk to her every day. We be friends.

not to put you on the spot, but if he were, I'm saying there's a mailroom position at 300. Right. I don't mean that. But are there people in this industry that you would rather not choose to work with again? Or is it just like you're fine the way your system is right now and, you know. Let me, I'm going to try to. put this in the right way. Because I want to know, like, the genius and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I'm trying to figure out if that was dame's constant, uh, uh, uh, intensity, or was that jZ's lucky streak.

Like, like, who had the 51 to 49 advantage? I think it was, it's always going to be hove. because he was the one that kept the lights on in the building. But every team needs a Dennis Robin. And I think Jay wasn't a big talker. Dane did the talk, and Biggs wasn't a big talk at all. He didn't even talk, you know what I mean? He just, you know, did nod and say, yo. So that's it.

Well, that said, if, okay, let's trade off. let's take dash out of this situation let's put Chris Lidey in that situation now if Chris Lydie is the right hand to hove will we have the same results or do you need someone that is just

the flavor to Chuck D like a Let me say this to you I think there's a lot of things that put that whole situation into the stratosphere

fear where it was at that particular time. I'd be a sucker and a bitch if I didn't sit and say that Dame's contribution to Rockefeller was not a lot. I'd be corny and whack it to say that Biggs didn't, and I'll also be disrespectful to say, Hove was not the reason. You know what I'm saying? So you can't, you can't put, you don't, you don't,

you don't do... Because I wouldn't know that because I'd never seen... I know Jay is very ambitious, and I know that he's kind of a chess player and thinks in terms of moves, but I always thought, like, you needed a Trojan horse or a battering ram

to, at least how, be it revisionist history or not, I mean, you'll hear everyone's tale of, of, well, I made it happen. Well, I made it happen. Well, I made it happen. You know, you hear, like, all these versions of it. So it's just like...

We never looked at it like that. I think them being with us helped a lot. I think we provided a platform, them to be great entrepreneurs. We gave them a lot of opportunity, taught them a lot of things. And to be quite honest, they taught us some things. Toward us about taking risk, taught us about just believe... Again, it might sound funny, but from all of them... guys I really feel like we were just meant to be the reason we ran the boards because we were meant

to be together meant to be together I'm talking about wars we didn't have been to some things yeah I was going to say knowing that your history were you meditating at this point at least like how are you surviving because I mean I'm I'm probably a passive aggressive boss in at least 12 of my features I just you know what are you pointing to me for No, this is the, have I been aggressive to you? Have I been aggressive to you? Here we go. Yes, you are a passive-aggressive boss.

I've been very aggressive. Oh, wait, me? No, I said you are a passive-aggressive boss. Yes, that is the truth. You already said it. It's cool. Oh, well, you didn't have to intensify it to that level. You were asking for a witness.

I just wanted you to know there was. Yeah, you didn't have to agree that damn quick. Anyway, but my point is that how how does this not land you in the hospital? How is this not... It actually did. Shit, I did not know that. I'm sorry.

But not it, not it. I didn't realize it at the time. But when you work with my life, you know, and I had gotten so big, I was 320 pounds. Jesus Christ, I totally forgot that. Yeah, he lost all that way. And so the issue,

I realized my, addiction was food and the reason and because I was on the road all time I never really cared about I just ate and ate and ate and then I stress you know and so I started to realize that shit something wrong blood clot here by by this and I remember Leo said this he said I want to think about this I had five hundred million dollars and my going to give it to you fat fuck or am I going to give it to the healthy guy? Wow.

Moment. And so I only say that I didn't realize it at that time. And sometimes you don't realize what you're going through, but that addiction to food, stress eating is people called it almost costing my life. Diabetes, the whole thing. So. Were you diagnosed with diabetes? Yeah, all that.

I was in digestion problems. I was out. When I tell you, you know, Reggie Redge, Burry Big Cap, all these guys were overweight, diabetes, and the whole nine. How old are you at this time? At my biggest, probably 32. Wow. That was big.

Yeah, because your initial weight loss was a lot. Like, you dropped a lot of pounds. Big. I was, shoof. I went from 320 to now where 190. Wow. That's like close, man. Oh, no. I'm current,

I'm 5X down. Oh wow. That's small. No, yeah, I had a similar scare and I'm like in my second month of, of being a vegan, which I got to ask,

is there ever a time where you just stop counting the days like a prisoner? Like I dream of pancakes. They're going to have vegan pancakes. I have a diary and I'm like, day 44. Like, I'm dead serious. Like, I'm... In blood?

I change my... It's lifestyle now. It's... I look at food. I eat food for energy. So you're not a no sugar, no dairy anymore? Because you were... It was a time, right?

No sugar. Uh-huh. Still? No fried foods. Oh, I'm out. Dairy? And I'm... Cheese.

You know what I mean? I do... People know me. I eat the same thing every day. You know what's that? So, egg whites, in the morning, mushrooms, onions, peppers, sliced turkey meat inside. Some will look like Kevin Lowe's.

Let's get to lunch now. Lunch is normally fish and Brussels sprouts or broccoli rob. And then dinner, I'll eat some seafood, webbers shrimp, Alaska, king crab legs, but always protein and vegetables. And now I made a commitment, you know, 48, By 50, I'm going to be in the best shape of my life. So I'm doing CrossFit three days a week and I'm doing rowing every day.

I hate rowing. Like, do you do that machine where you have to do the 2000 meters? What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love it so much that I put it in my house. I bought one from my house. Oh, like house of cards.

Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I purposely try to break the chair on that machine so that's the gym. Shout out to Coach Greg. I'll be there tomorrow, 8 o'clock, man. Inspiration. Oh, Jesus.

So, I got that answer. You asked. But I'm going to tell you, Quest, that's on the weight thing. So many people will look at you and follow you. You know what kind of light you would shine if you did become healthy. I'm not saying you're not healthy, but just if you did the light that you would bring. to people. It's weird because people think that I'm now the Nazi asshole for like all the health stuff

of them putting up. Just people who know you. Not the people who don't know you. They're looking at you. Oh, just you. Yeah, just us. But more people think it's great. I think you'd be such an inspiration to people and you'll touch people's lives.

I can't tell you people who send me messages that, you know, forget me being who I am and the things that I've done. just the commitment because I've been I've lost away from this now going to 10 years I don't count count days or anything I really truly eat for energy you may only eat enough stuff I don't want a full full is nasty to me full makes me feel sluggish in a certain way so I pray for you and I hope that you find you know the light enough to follow the light and shine light on other people man Wow, thanks.

I feel like I just got blessed by Kevin Love. All we need is Rick Ross, and it's like a pure blessing. And Sugar Steve. Who wasn't here to hear all of them. That guy needs a blessing. Sugar Steve is our resident diabetes. Who got up during that part? Yeah, he's out probably smoking a cigarette.

Eat some sugar. Like eating a cake. He'll come in like, what did I miss? Yeah. So, what your exit, actually the three of you left Def Jam at the same time, correct? In 2006? It was four. They were there when we signed to Atlantic.

So, Lear left first. I was there, president, CEO, Def Jam. Julie was there as executive president of Island, president of Allen. She left. and then and I always tell a story so it's me in LA and I felt like

What was the synergies the same? I mean it was my company you know what I mean we ran it I just so I had the keys but I didn't have the house so

so and Doug and them they just didn't know they didn't trust me enough because I was Leah's guy you know me and so they told me you should come and you know

know, stay and understand. I said, listen, I love L.A. It's my friend. It's like somebody, there's another guy that I think the world of, and we can do great, we don't do the same thing. You know what I mean?

We can do great things together. Were you disappointed that they didn't offer you the? I wasn't, see, again, it was meant to be. So I don't live in, I started the only time I got to get disappointed when they said, you got to, you're not going to give me the job.

That was the only time I was this point. Other than that, I take life for what it has to give me. But that's why I'm so critical on my choices and the things that I do and how I treat people. So with L.A., I looked at it. I said, yo, so I don't want people doing the L.A.'s people and Kevin's people. I'm not going to let them do that to two African Americans at an institution like Def Jam.

I can't do that, yo. So I'm out. You're my man, but I got to go. He said, yo, no. I said, no, I said, no, but I'm doing this for us. I'm doing this for us because you deserve and respect for what you have and respect what you've done as an executive, you don't need a hindrance to you doing what you need to do.

This is Def Jam. You know what I mean? This is Island Def Jam. I need you to have full control and anything. So I'm going to help as much as I can, but I think it's best that I'll give you, you have the house, I give you the keys also. So that's what it was.

So in your successor was, Jay, right? Yeah, or Jay. Was that, what do you think of that period? Like, were you shocked or did you feel that that was not natural, but like, was it something that you believed in? I think it was, you got on, it was necessary to, because you got to understand something.

I'm 10 years now, I'm 15 years there. And so people, there's some kids who don't know Russell was president in the death jam. You know what I mean, there's some millennials that don't know that. They think it was me. You know, I found it in that old thing. So, you know, the issue, I think that they had with me not being there, they had to have someone there with enough gravitas, enough light attraction and success that would stop the bleeding. I mean.

But why do you think the art, it didn't, during that time, it seemed like the artists on roster weren't as happy as they were before, some of the people who had been there for a while? I think it's management styles. I think. And how do you deal with a fading light? Like, EPMD's situation, for instance, like, you know, how do you take a legacy act that might not necessarily be as open?

I mean, am I to assume, I don't, like, I never know what LL's processes. He just seems to me that he's just open to ideas. And if it's, and if it's a good idea, I'll go with it. I know plenty of artists that would, you know, turn their back on a hit for fear of like, I don't want to look bad for my boys singing da-da-da-da-da. But how do you take a legacy act that was good for? of the label like EPMD or Eric Sermon and that sort of thing. Like if the expiration is up and they're like, okay, well, we're back in business or that

thing like, what was the 97? No, that was it. It was back in business. Back in business, out of business. I did all those hours. So. Executive producer. I mean, that's, we're going to, it's a question.

So for that, for those comeback records, like, are they having these, like, these frothy goals of like, ah, man, we're. we're back to our, you know, our regular platinum status and, you know, the world's going to know who we are. Because they were never platinum. Well, they were gold. What I'm trying to say is their expectation was to be able to go out on the road and perform for their fans. Sirman, Eric Sermen, his expectations was to be able to produce. You got to remember, when we did back in business,

and then it was another one. Out of business. Out of business. Yeah, that was the only, yeah. These were albums done out of love. It wasn't an expectation, oh, we're going to go on get jet. It was not that, it was that, yo, we still want to do it. So help us do it.

And that's what I did. And I think we did. Eric did some great, Eric did the 4321 remix for me. And I always say, so if he can bless me there, I have to be able to work with them. The joke was the group was called K-E-P-M-D because I was always staged right with them too. You know what I mean?

So that was, I mean, through all that, I went through all that they can... So that must have been a part of the culture shot because I remember when you left, L-L it seemed like it was definitely a difference in him. I like a mirror. It's not a gotcha moment. However, he definitely made it know

how he felt about the new administration and how did that affect you? Because it just seemed like the whole camaraderie Whatever you brought, that joy that you brought to that building, it left. It was gone. I think it's a different, I mean, you got to look at different administrations coming every four years. And I think that, but you learn how to deal with them. I think, okay, maybe that feeling wasn't there, but Rihanna's there.

Right. But did he, I mean, y'all are friends, so I'm sure he, like, called you, like, I can't deal. Did you have to? I think people knew, people know me at Hope. Okay. You know what I mean? People know that if he called me today and said, yo, I need you to run this or do this. That's my guy. I'm going to do whatever I can for him.

But vice versa, like other people can't call him. I can call him and say, yo, I need, it's not money thing. And he'll be there. And the rest of these kids, I always told him when I left, it was emotional for me. You know, you got to understand. I took that badge. And the only thing I don't have is a tattoo. with death jam.

And these were brothers and sons and daughters and aunts and people who I came up with in the business. But at the end of the day, they have to do what's best for their families like I had to do what's best for my families. And I got some of the calls, but I'll always say, remember when Rick left, there was Lear, change of administration.

When Lear, we grew so big, had to have Kevin Lowes change administration. In the same way some artists, people, it's people who felt at Defton when I came in, when they named me president, some people left. Some people threw shit all, they couldn't believe how they named. Some people left.

Yeah, they couldn't believe how they named me, people cried. So even despite you coming in first and leaving last? Wasn't about that because the culture wasn't about, how can I say, the team. It was more so about we deaf jam. And to me, I'm okay with being in the backseat, driving, I'm clearly being on the roof, put me in the trunk.

I'm okay with whatever as long as we accomplish the goal. What's the greater good? And so I just think it's a different, when new administrations come in, they have to cater to the artists. And when you don't cater to art, the paint starts to peel. And so that's what I think, you know

I want to ask If you can, name me three artists or three acts Don't get me in trouble quest I'm not, Doug Kevin Lous, I love you, man I know you do, I'm not got you Name me three X

that got away I could have had blah blah blah like damn If we just, they went somewhere else. Like, what three acts could you have signed or had that got away? Nelly? Wow. Whoa.

How close was Nellie negotiations with DefJail? And what caused it to not happen? I know someone had to say, oh, this guy will never sell this. I just think it was a timing issue. and we were a really like coast-based label, East Coast and West Coast, and didn't understand it. I think...

Lear didn't like it? I think 50 cent. Wait a minute. You're trying to tell me... Chris Lydie managed him. What would have happened? I never thought of that. So if Lydie would have signed 50 cent,

Anjowl was on the label at the same time? Yeah. That would have been crazy. I do it. Listen. Or was that an issue? No, the best thing for everybody. And again, I deal with the greater good.

50 had an opportunity to be with Dre. I believe if 50 would have been with us. You mean you had a son when he signed the Columbia the first time or like the period after Columbia. After Columbia. Oh, y'all could have took him? Like, mixtape? I mean, mixed tape hot as hell, 50 cents?

I mean, we could have signed 50, but the greater good called. And the greater good was, yo, I think that's the better situation. And I think that because of Dr. Drake, because of the whole thing that came along with it. And I think that because of the choice that he made, I think he became the artist that he is. I don't think we could have did as great of a job with him as they did. So I think that was one. And then, who else? You got me three.

I mean, it doesn't have to be hip-hop. I'm sure there's some singer. Rock band, too, because you have some. Hold on. Let me see. I mean, there ain't that many that we wanted them we didn't get. Not to brag. I'm saying.

No, I really, like I'm, I can't, in doing my era, I can't think of another, another, another act that if we really wanted them, that we didn't get him. So, Nelly and 50. Yeah, I would say, and by the way, they both very good friends. I went on to manage Nellie, you know, for a period of time. Of course you did. So he's, shout out to Nelly, shout out to 50. Do you have a favorite era of Def Jam? I mean, because we didn't even talk about a deaf show.

or anything else, but I'm just curious because I remember that was like a big deal in 20th episode, so I'm just curious, do you have a... I don't, I mean, this is, I don't have a favorite era. An era that meant the most to you. I guess the favorite word is a... Are you one of those, like, I'd never look back once I'm looking towards the touchdown goal? Yeah, I said, I'm just, I'm not doing this. Okay. No, Heisman, please, nothing.

No, none of that. Because I really believe if you stay in a state of evolution, you make change. I don't feel like I don't want to be stagnant so therefore I don't spend my time just reflecting on the roses. I smell them, but I don't sit back

and look at what I did. Now I can sit here and say when streaming started we had the first artist to stream a billion streams with FettyWap. I can sit here today and say you got the number one, record with high suspect. I can say in the day and say I got Migos. I'd rather talk.

I can say and say I got a guy named Young Thug that's, you know, putting out so many records that I can say all these things in a sense. But now, if you want me to go back and talk about everything. No. We can talk about the day and how you manage it and having labels at the same time and doing so much. Yeah, all that. But, you know, I just really look forward to what God has prepared, you know, but I got to work at it, though. You know, I tell people you really don't want it if you're not willing to give up everything for it. You really don't want it.

And a lot of kids today, they don't want it. They act like they want it, but they don't want it. They don't want it as in them. They don't have the drive that you had. It's not about, it's not about drive. I mean, I believe every day I'm I'm trying to prove to you that I'm Michael Jordan. Every day. Still? To this day.

Still Michael Jordan? Still Michael Jordan. Not, not coach. No, not Michael Jordan. I play, I play. Okay. I play hard. So in your world, like it's not about, okay, well, you know, I should be in coach position or even owner position or...

It's funny. It's, you got to, I owned a piece of death jam at 28. I don't know what it is not to be an owner. I own Warner Music Group. I own 300, you know, with that. Right. I don't know. I own KW.

I don't know what it is not to own. So I don't, I don't, but I don't know what I would do if I didn't, couldn't play. Do you think your journey could exist in 2017? Like the way did you started your journey, continued your journey? Is there an employee right now that's still at your office making sure that? So 10 years from now, we're going to be with CJ. I got a lot of young kids who I feel like... Do you feel millennials even have that drive at all?

I think some do. I think some do. I think you find the right ones. I think CJ's one. I think I got another kid in my office who was like the third person that I did Google class of interns. I think Ash is one. I think I got another marketing person named Raina.

I mean, they're there. You know what I mean? But what happened, Quest, is that there's a period of time in our culture where mentorship was lost. Because everybody got scared for their job. And everybody got selfish, yeah. And they got selfish. And so it's only reason.

That's called Frontmaster Flexing. It's the only reason I came back like I have is because I don't need. If you look at all of the diversity and the music business and things like that, there's not enough of us. But I tell people, you've got to be prepared for the moment. And being prepared for the moment is making sure you're the best you. And you have the biggest value proposition. and a lot of kids that's what in there. And so I demand excellence.

You're teaching and you just use that phrase twice and this whole sit down. Can you say that again, the value proposition? Value proposition. Because people say stuff, they don't know what it is and that's kind of deep, but you just... So I believe there's a value proposition on both sides. People who come to meet, can you give me a job?

I said, no, but you can create a position with me. What's your value proposition? I'm not going to pay you, but you're going to create your position. You create your position, and then we'll talk about it. So if someone with the... gravitas and nerve that Rockefeller had when I guess they told you guys

like... Dame had. Not Rockefeller. Okay. That's that's paprika. No, no, no. No, no. No, in the way of saying everybody had that role. That was his role. And he played well. Oh, okay. Well, no, no, I...

Again, a lot of this, I'm just going on folklore that, you know, you always hear stories of, and I just remember, or at least what I was told was that when they had the initial death jam meeting, it was like, no, we want to be our own label, not just to be an artist. Jay Damon Biggs came to my office, Irving said, yo, y'all want to get your records played. You got to go see Kevin Lows. Okay. And so they came to my office with a bag of money, a brown paper bag. And I said, yo, let me hear the music.

You know, I just want to know. I know life I heard, you know, in my lifetime, I said, but let me hear the music. So I said, yo, won't you all that sign hit? Jay said, we rock a fella. I said, cool. Hey, I ain't. All right, cool. So, but, yo, we should stay in touch.

and I helped them get the record on the radio, and then they did the record with Foxy, and we put that on Rush Hour soundtrack, the first one, and the rest is history. That's really, that's really, this one was nerve, though, because that's, listen, another time he said it, when we all went to the Warner Music Group,

um, Jay said, yo. And how did y'all get him to agree to that? Kevin's all smiles now. No, it's, it's when you, it's when you always think of the great. of good. So when Jay had the opportunity to work with us again, because he got the whole line. Next thing, finished his commitment there, he brought his album over to us at Atlantic.

Which, uh, the kingdom come or the, uh, part three. Blueprint three. Okay. And, and, uh, he didn't have to do that. He could have did it anywhere in the world, but he chose to meet us. He could have, you know, he could have been anywhere in the world. And the reality of it was, um, and, um, he could have did it. And the reality of it was, That's because of the greater good. You know what I mean? And I believe we all work together again, and I believe I'm now with Learer at YouTube. There's going to be a lot of opportunity for more things to happen,

and our culture is going to even continue to grow more. I just want to wrap up to where you are now, which is, of course, between KWL and 300 entertainment. Why would you want to be a manager? Which means that, I'm certain that your phone's are ringing off that CJ's already confirming. I never. Do you dread when the phone rings between 11?

I'm sure you have a bat phone. That bat phone, which is like, do not call this phone unless it's an emerge, right, okay, you always show me all 42 billion. So when phone number three rings at 2. two in the morning. That's in the car. Are you... Is there tremors?

Are you like, oh, God. So, where I'm at in my life, people know I have an 18-year-old, 16-year-old, five-year-old, and two-year-old. Oh, man. Have a wife. I'm not answering the phone at a certain time. But it's out of respect.

But I make sure before I lay down that everything's done. It's not an issue. And if I do get a 4 o'clock in the morning call like I did last week. Yeah. Okay. It's already handled to a point that I just got to give the blessing. You know what I mean?

Because I got people, I have a company. It's not just me. I have people who are very competent. You're at the top of the pyramid. Very competent around. And I have to just say I never wanted to manage. I don't even feel like I managed right now. You don't want to manage.

You didn't want to be president. You didn't want to be an artist. What do you want to do, Kevin Lowell? Okay, let me tell you really want to do it. I want to change people's lives. And right now I'm doing it through music. I can't accept that. It's good, because of truth.

That's all I want to do. I'm really, honestly, I'll tell you, and then we can wrap up. So, when I left Warner Music Group, I was done with the business. I said, I don't, I said, you don't want to sign Chris Brown? You're trying to tell me, but you're trying to tell me, about you want to get rid of this artist? I said, yeah, I can't do that. So I'm the objective vice president,

so I don't have a label. I'm the whole company, you know. And I said, I think it's the business is about to change. I think I should look at the new business model, take some time off. And so I worked out something with Warner and for, you know, three years and everything's great. My whole crew there and everything.

And I met this kid, Trey, while I was there, he said, yo, I got rid of my manager. I said, who's your manager? He said, Delante. I said, Delante was my first intern ever in the music business. I said, what's the problem? Well, well, I said, yo, he said, Kev, I want you to manage you.

I said, I'm not managing you. I'm not managing you. I'm not doing none. What are y'all talking about management? And I said, but go out and talk to everybody and then come back and talk to me and let's make a decision. So his mom calls me.

and says, I, Kevin, my son don't want a manager. He wants you. He said, he looks at you as a father figure. I said, oh, Jesus. Where are we going here? No, he didn't call me and said it. So then he calls and said, yo, I promise you I'm going to do whatever I need to do to be

and I'm not going to act up. You know what I mean? I said, oh, I don't think you're going to act up. I said, do you got to understand is really you have to be my partner. I'm not your manager, really. I'm your partner, and we're going to have to figure it out.

And so I agreed to do that, and then 10,000 other people called, but that was out of necessity. Our friend was out of necessity. It wasn't out. I didn't say, I want to say, I want to man it. It was out of necessity.

I was about to say, what can we do to not make DeAngelo's fourth album come out in 2037? Right? Label love, man. I can just, I can be honest with you. I know it's frustrating. And then you see a performance

like, oh, all's forgiven. This is, I mean, he wanted to, listen. That's an abusive relationship. That sounds like an abusive relationship. Right, that sounds like a relationship. He's one of those. I can just say, listen, whether he makes 10 albums, five albums, two albums, whatever he decides to make, it'll be dance on.

It's only one of those. And that's how I feel about it. And I'm there, it's out of necessity. Outer necessity. That's my brother. You know what I mean? That's somebody who, like, I'm going to be there for him. You know, wherever he's writing music, performing, whatever he's doing. I'm going to be there for him. Stage right.

But stage right. But again, it's outer necessity. That was out of necessity. I have some acts that I do because they want to beat, but they all want to beat me for different reasons. And so it's out of necessity, you know, with that. Who are the acts that you manage now? P&B Rock. Philly

Oh, Philly, yeah Shout out to Philly, shout out to P&B. Do you still have L? No, don't have her Kay Michelle. Okay. Who else?

West Walker from another Philly white rap guy. Charles Jenkins, Big Pastor out of Chicago. Shout to Charles, I'm forgetting somebody. I'm forgetting somebody.

I'm forgetting somebody. really, oh, London on the track. Ah, okay. And if I forgot you, I'm sorry, it's too late. I know, I'm sorry. Well, I thank you very much. Give it up for our guest. Kevin Lowe.

The guru. The guru. I'm going to take that, though. I might, that may be my... I can't be the first person that ever called you a guru. Russell called me a priest. Wow. Ra Rao calls me the governor instead of the governor because I cover everybody.

But you're the first guru, definitely. Wow. Oh, Russell called me Buddha. I can see that. Now or 15 years ago. Now. Okay. Yeah.

He said, you don't have to meditate. I have to meditate because I have to meditate. I said, you don't have to meditate. He said, you don't have to meditate. You're just nice. I said, yeah. I said, okay, cool. Well, my success to you, man.

I appreciate your energy and your wisdom and your insight. Thank you very much, man. Thank you, guys. Bless you all. For sure. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. That was a very enlightening and positive.

Do you think we will just get one person to tell us the most debauchy death jam stories of all time? He was about to. Did you notice that? He was getting up to one and then we changed the subject. He was, yeah, I thought he was going to. I was grateful to distance. He was, what do you say?

He was like, Solomon Gammon. It was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then someone said something else. It was like, now we're not talking about that shit. Yeah. And beefs and beefs and shit. I have fish for lunch and fish for dinner and fish and fish. I have king crab legs.

My home are leatherbound books. Vegetables. Smells of rich mahogany. And vegetables. I was afraid to ask if he remembered the little brother period of, of, was that the first time you guys met? Who doesn't remember? That was my first time meeting him. Okay.

That was my first time meeting. But, I mean, but a lot of what he was. saying, you know, and even to back up what he was saying, you know, for all instances, I mean, they let us make the album we wanted to make. I mean, that album regardless of what it did, you know,

financially, you know, referring to the Mitchell Show, you know, that record came straight out of our hard drives to the world. And I don't know if too many artists who can really say that, you know, certainly at that time, you know, I mean. You know, we, that album

came out exactly the way we, envisioned it and so uh you know they were always the album cover except for the album cover yeah we had to change some stuff with the album cover but uh but other than that i mean um yeah they were very they let us do us you know what i'm saying so i'll always be thankful to uh kev and uh julie and uh k uh krejew's the person i like to get on on the show i think julie would be real right i think julie would be the one that would be the live she's the one that will she would give it up wrong i don't know everybody else now is like doing yoga and shit I think Julia go in.

Did I ask you what you learned, Fontaine? No. Kevin Liles, what I learned. I learned that, to me, the people that a lot of times that are most successful in the business, you know, when he talks about just wanting to add value to things, that's something that's very admirable. That's something that I've always kind of try to live my life by, in that if I don't think I can make something better,

it doesn't have anything to do with the money or, you know, whatever. It's just like if I don't think I can make this better, then your check really don't mean nothing, you know what I'm saying? Because if I'm not adding some kind of value to it that I know only I can add, then, you know, I'm doing you a disservice by taking the money and I'm just going to end up making us both look bad. So that was something that really rang out to me. And also, too, just the thing of him just kind of not really playing for the paper,

but just playing for the position agreeing to say, hey, I'll drive Houdini because of what that's going to mean, not necessarily. There may not be a big payoff in it for me immediately, but it may pay off for me down the line. I'm still trying to digest that, though. You mean, what you mean? In what way? Well, I mean, I have no reason to believe that, you know, he's fibbing to me. Right.

But that's a rare character trait to, I don't know, to be so prepared and so. so willing to work and so on time and so resourceful and so ready without a destination or game or even a dream. Well, I think he said, one of the things he said was that he wanted to be the best at whatever he was doing. It wasn't necessarily like he was looking for the touchdown. It was just like, if this is who I am, then I'm going to be the best at it. Yeah.

That's the same thing. That's the same thing I tell my kids. It ain't about you, man. That's just somebody else's story. Bad, what you mean? No. Because you have aspirations? No. Not at all. It's just somebody else's story. It's a journey. Different journey.

So does that make me a bad person if I see a monetary landing at the end of this leap? Nah. It doesn't make you a bad person, but at some point it's got to be something else. And I'm with you on that. It's got to be more than money. Because after a while it's like. Just like Kevin and helping his people and going to Morgan being in Baltimore being available. Like what is that money don't feed your soul.

But James Brown. says he's a Republican James Brown says in soul power He can't be liberated broke Well you can do both though That's what Kevin Liles is doing

That's what Richard Branson is doing Yeah I'm trying to change lives too But I definitely know that ain't nothing going on But the rent No Okay I'm I'm

Bill Pills Unpaid bill What Any other bill What did you learn this episode What I learned Two things.

Kevin Liles. Yes, that's two words. So I have this theory, which goes off what you were saying. It's like, you all get into the room for a reason, right? You have a talent or you're in the room for reason, but you stay in the room because you're fun to hang around with. That's like, I feel like that's about everything, and that was kind of what he was getting at.

He's like, he's a nice guy. And like, he would do all this shit and do all this crazy stuff, but he succeeded at the end of the day so profoundly because he's a good dude. He's just like a, he's not an asshole. And secondly, he kept on saying stuff about storytelling, which I thought was interesting, which we were disagreeing on, which is like East Coast versus West Coast. It wasn't that one thing ended and another thing began. It's just that's where it was.

And because I feel like I was thinking about this as he was saying this. It's like, our life is like that. Like, we were into the Hamilton thing for a minute. And now that's kind of, you know, it's still this thing, but it goes away and then something else kind of pops up. You just kind of follow around this thing and just hope that you can you can attack yourself to the pulse of it as long as you can. because that's what we're doing. That's artistry, whatever we're doing. You know, and I thought that was cool.

You just keep working. You just keep working. It's a career in popular culture. Yes, but our career is based in this fucking weirdest thing in the world. Like, so. Music. What did you learn? Largy.

Margie. Margie. Lime here. Large, large. Lange. Bill got you fucked up. It's all right. Lai in.

I know. It's okay. I know. It's okay. I just learned that I guess you really can be a good guy in his business. although I'm still waiting for a bad story about Kevin Liles because it's so hard to believe that you can be a good cop.

Like, that's amazing. Yeah, I, I, yeah, that. Right, like. That's amazing. In a sea of Leor and Russell, oh, Kevin. Yeah, I, I, I, I'm, trust me, I've heard Russell Simmons name as Hustle Simmons.

I've heard Lear Cohen. Liar Cohen. Liar con man. I've never heard, I've never heard Kevin lies. I've never heard that. I've never heard that once. Bill. Me?

Yeah? What did I learn? Boss Bill. I didn't really learn anything. I just got a lot of things reinforced. I really wish this was a conversation that I could have been a part of on May 4, 2002, before I started my first job in the music industry. Steve, you know what you didn't learn?

Yeah. Tell them. Tell them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what you did not? learn how to get back into this room I've been getting text messages all right from Steve who locked out of the phone every fucking time we're here you let the room in such a glorious moment for you but I'm planning you and create places I get help what happens

when you go outside what did I what did I not learn were you at the window like banging on the window I wish I was that close no he was outside by the elevators because he went and you couldn't get back in what did I not learn does he manage Billy Joel or something Both of you were sugars. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, you guys were brothers. Oh, shit.

Yeah. And then he talked about his diet, and then we made fun of your diet, and then you weren't here, so it was fine. Yeah, sorry. And then he blessed the mirror. It was beautiful. It was.

I did learn some things. What did you learn? He wrote it down again. Well, I want to hear one of these songs with ten turntables. Right? I mean, I put it together in my head. guys each with two. Good math, buddy.

Good math. That's some fucking math. I put that together in my hair. That's the one thing that we didn't clearly spend that when he was talking about that he kept the base. The thing of Baltimore house music was that

they would turn any song into a four on the floor song. So it doesn't matter. It could be like Jump by Van Helen. Somebody would spin jump by Van Halen. that somebody scratching and somebody playing a bass line. Right, yeah. So he was saying that his job was just to keep the steady 808.

In Chicago, they would actually have a guy play the 808 live in the booth. So I don't know if he had an 808 machine or he was a spinning record that had a consistent. Yeah, I'd like that. But, yeah, you turn every song into a four-on-the-floor song. So are there albums that the listeners can reference to hear 10 turntables playing?

Well, I mean, that's a live, It's more of a live experience. It's more of a live experience. I'm about to say, is that like how they'll do that now, right? Like, no, I mean not now. The only person I've seen that actually played more than four at once. I forget this. Well, yeah, the scratch pistol or the executioners at one point.

We're doing that. The other stuff I learned was, I think this must be the only person in the world who took an internship when he had all that money rolling in. Right. I mean, that's something special, you know. I mean, obviously you take it. internships to get your foot. Right. He took the internship without a goal at the end to... I don't believe that part. But then didn't take the boss job for two years. Like in 96. Who is that humble? Right. He's like, I don't know it yet.

No, I would do that. I would actually do that. You say that but like, no, I would totally do that. But that's not. But if you know you're not ready, you're not going to put me into position to fuck it up. But I come from a different place, which is like to learn on the job Yeah, but that's a privilege. Yeah, that's a privilege. That's a real. That's a white thing. I can't afford to.

It is. I didn't want to use the word. No, no, no, no, no. You're my brother, but I'm just saying, like, because the thing is if I learn on the job and fuck up, oh, hell, man, and hiring another nigger for 20 years. Right. Like, so, like, I'm fucking up for me. I'm fucking up for everybody.

But also, running a label and crashing and burning it is a big high profile thing you wouldn't want to do, so. Telecommunications act. Got it. We all remember Andre Hiro and then the whole, Motown debacle. Man, yeah. He never lived that shit down. I mean, how many street

snipes did we see of... Yeah, I remember the... I just have one in my head. It's a shot from behind. He's sitting in the chair with the cigar. With the cigar and the sweater draped on the back of the chair. I think he had his name on it or whatever. That's all I remember of his tenure at Motown. That's all

I remember too. No music. I don't remember no jam's coming out. I learned more shit. All right. What else? He's like, you say one thing and then you're like, Oh, why don't you block yourself outside? It's good stuff, Steve.

What else did you learn, Steve? Well, you know, that nice guys don't always finish last. This guy seems to be the exception to the rule, you know, and that's nice to see. I mean, unless he's playing us. Shit that. And I had, I did have. Wait, you think he's playing us?

No, no, I don't. I don't. Bitch who guessed it. I don't. I don't. Just kidding. I think he made it on humility and probably honesty and hard work and all these really these nice things that we should all. Oh, people remember you when you.

Yes. Yes. People remember that shit. Well, oh, what else? Can I not learn more than two or three fucking things in three fucking hours? Steve, this is the most you've talked about the show ever. No, it's not the first one. You want to come to me like half the show.

Oh, sure, Supreme. Go ahead, man. Go ahead. Take over. I had an idea. I think if you want to get one of these real juicy stories to come out about the Def Jam years that you're always trying to get, you've got to find some cleaning lady who used to work there instead of one of these executives. There you go.

Nothing to lose. And just, you know, we interview her. Well, look, you guys definitely echoed the same sentiments about what I learned. I definitely know that I want to hear Dame Dash's side of the story. So I'm putting this out there in the atmosphere. Dame Dash, we're gunning for you. And a cleaning lady. And the Def Jam.

Funk flex will not be here, so don't be afraid. Shots. Oh, damn. Beal, beo, beu, beer. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Damn, you do reload. Yeah, I got everything. Okay. I'm loaded. All right, OMVF, Fantigolo, Sugar Steve, boss pill. A. A.k.a. Angry Margaret. Oh, shit.

Yeah. Unpaid Bill and even Scott Yeo. Yeah. And our nice staff here at WMIC. This is Questlove Supreme. On Pandora, we will see you on the flip side. Thank you. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio.

This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

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This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying. under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to

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