The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: LA Reid Part 3

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Looking back to the third and final part of LA Reid's epic QLS interview. This 2022 chat covers the founding of LaFace Records and some rarely discussed history surrounding OutKast and TLC. LA also looks at his time leading Def Jam and identifying Rihanna and Kanye West as the label's new stars.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, all. wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's

East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to understand. miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok

podcast network on TikTok. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What's up? This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. Anybody who knows this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last for hours. So often, we split them into two parts.

It also gives listeners a suspenseful reason to come back next week or check their podcast feed for more episodes. Back in 2022, we sat down with L.A. Reed for what became a rare three-part interview. The third and final part of L.A. Reed's epic QLS interview covers the founding of LaFace Records and some rarely discussed histories surrounding Outcast and TLC. Please rate, like, and subscribe to this on your podcast feeds. Check back for new episodes and follow our new YouTube page at QLS. At the time in 8889, I wouldn't have thought. Hey, Atlanta is a great place to build my empire.

What did you see in Atlanta that we didn't see? Because at the time, the only artist I knew that lived in Atlanta was Pibo Bryson. And then you changed everything. You changed the whole culture of a city. Yeah, so how did you, why did you choose Atlanta? And how did you choose Atlanta? Why and how? It was a combination.

It was myself, baby face, and pebbles. All three of us were in the studio on Kewan. Boulevard in the studio called Ilumba and we collectively decided that we wanted to leave. We wanted to move out of LA for various reasons. Okay. Why? One was, well, concerned about earthquakes, seriously, and that sounds kind of crazy. Nice, real. We were concerned about cost of living.

Okay. And we had just started to make some money and we wanted to know how to stretch that, right? And so the idea was less, and we just come off tour. Like we just finished that last tour and we've been all over the country. And we didn't think L.A. was like the only place on earth. So we had a conversation about moving. So we put a map on the wall. We had a very serious conversation about moving.

Yeah, that's what to say. You put a map out. Very serious conversation. We put a map on the wall, a map of the United States. And first we looked at everyone's home. where should we go should we go to the bay area where pebbles is from oh i thought she was from alanna damn she's from the bay we were like now wow louisthianapolis where baby faces from n n n nc Cincinnati where i'm from and uh then we were like new york

And then Kenyon, we thought about our experiences being in New York and writing, and we were like, nah, we don't write that well at New York. Nah. We got it. Dallas. Big homes, big great lifestyle. One of us, and I don't remember who said Atlanta. And all I remember all of us saying, yes. Because Atlanta, if you're on tour.

When you go through Atlanta, that's like the Mecca, right? Everything was like upscale. It was like everything from the, um, pre-Olympics. Oh, yeah, this was like 88. This is 88, yeah. I mean, Olympia, they didn't even have skyscrapers. You guys and Bobby Brown, I'll never understand. Like, we all went together.

Why would y'all do that? We picked Atlanta because we knew we could live well. I'm being honest, right? We just knew we could live. We went down, looked at some houses, and the house prices, the real estate prices, like, we were like, we can live, we can live well down here. This place is dope. So we, I called Irving Azoff, who was running MCA at the time,

who we thought we were going to make the LaFace deal with. And I said, Irving, I have an idea. He said, what's the idea? I said, how's the sound? Motown of the South. LaFace record. Atlanta, Georgia. And he said, where do I sign? And that's how it started. And he gave us the seed money to move, book the planes, booked the hotels, found us a lawyer, found us a real estate agent.

And we went down and we literally stayed there until we found homes. And where did Clive Davis come in the picture? Irving quit. Irving quit working at MCA. Oh. He left the company, right? So enter Clarence Avon. Yes, Godfather. So Clarence Avon, who had always been there. Right. Clarence says, well, if you're not doing it with Irving, then I'm going to introduce you to Jerry Moss, David Geffen, and all of the various players.

And we met everybody and everybody was interested. Mo Austin, we met everybody. How did you get out the contract, though? You signed on the dotted line, no? No, we didn't sign anything. and we just got a producer advances because we made all of our hits at MCA, so we had a lot of money

in the pipeline, so he just basically gave us the money that we were owed. And you didn't have to recoup it back or repayback or anything? We never signed one thing. Wow. No, we didn't sign anything. We just, and it was a lot of money, you know, especially at that time.

I can imagine, yeah. You know, so Clams introduced us to everybody, and when I was 18 years old, I read this book. by this great record executive from the Clive Davis. The yellow book, I don't even know why. I don't even know why 18, 19 years old.

Why am I reading about a record executive? I didn't even know why. But there was a photo of him sitting at the Beverly Hills Hotel Pool with Sly and the family with Sly Stone. And I was like, I want to be that guy, right? Not Sly. I want to be the guy sitting next to Sly.

Right. So this is my big opportunity to meet the great Clive David. and Clarence set it up. We walked into the bungalow at the Beverly Hills Hotel to meet Clive Davis, and my mind was already made up. I was like, I'm doing this with Clive. But I couldn't say that.

I couldn't play. I couldn't show the hand. And I didn't actually know how FACE felt about it at the time. You know, I knew FACE really wanted to work on Whitney. So it just all felt right. We thought we were going to do it with David Geffen, who said yes to our deal. And then he came back and said, actually, no, I don't want to do it. And his reasoning was, I'm not committed to the genre.

It wasn't bad at all. It was very honest. He was like, I'm a rock guy. I said, yeah. He ain't waste your time. He didn't waste that time. He's like, that's funny, Amir. Yeah, right.

He wasn't because we were his guinea pigs. That's what I was thinking. I was like, oh, wow. Now I'm just thinking like, wow, I could have signed to the label. I could have signed the LaFace in 1993 of Wendy Goldstein, and it just went to, like, I'm now imagining the alternate lifetime where outcast needs help and the roots are the ones that are like. And the roots are the ones that are on top.

Oh, that's hot. That's actually really hot. That's hot. Man, I have a, while we, I have a very specific outcast question. So I want you to talk about the differences in working with, between Dre and Big Boy. I really study, Big Boy is somebody that I really, look at and I look at a lot of the moves in his career and they seem to be a direct reflection

of, you know, you know, his relationship with you. So I want to know, he talks, he's always spoken very highly with you and I love some so much. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like, how have you, how is that relationship between those two guys over the years? How has that developed? It's always been really good. And, and the truth is, I think it might have been one of my better relationships because I didn't know their music as well. Like, I couldn't tamper. Do you know what I mean? If TSC makes a record, I have a very strong opinion about it

or anybody, you know, Usher makes a record. I have a very strong opinion about it. But with Alcass, they were such originals that if they felt passionately about it, my job was to be a servant leader instead of being, instead of meddling. I have a question. Okay, am I the only one that thinks this, Fonte?

as much as I love elevators. Okay. Dude, in 1996, to make your first single a very slow tempo song that's like 88 BPMs, not conducive to what I believe dance culture was in...

But that was in the South, though. Atlanta. Atlanta. That was a risky song. That was such a risky song, yo. In the South for us, man, that was not. It wasn't risky for us.

We ran the fuck out of... elevators like immediately because when I got that like by that point I was like getting service by DJs and whatnot and yes as a as a as an as a northeasterner like I was I was in the groove of where hip hop was in that period between like 92 BPMs and 100 BPMs like very fast and when I put elevators on I just stared at the record like you know this is so slow and how am I going to make this work in my DJ sets And yet y'all went with it. Like there was no fear whatsoever.

I actually didn't know one way or another. Like, to be honest with you, right? Andre and Big Boy, Enrico Way, they came to the office and they were like, this is it, this is it, this is it. And I knew Andre, what I did know is that that Andre verse was, we all knew that. I mean, that was like seriously, like, damn, he's good. He's really good.

But as a song, I probably had the same opinion you did. I was like, this is a little slow. It's not that clear either, you know, like it wasn't, it wasn't sparkling. It was dark, right? And so I had the same, but I really believed in, I really believed in Rico Wade. Like, Rico Wade was the leader. And he was, he was my ears, man, my eyes and my ears to everything that we were doing in that world of Outcast, Goody Mob and even, you know, parental advisory is?

Yes. Oh, yeah, PA, absolutely. They were in the crew as well. So I just listened to Rico and it worked. And after it worked, my relationship with them was you guys make your own decisions. If you want my opinion, I'll give you my opinion, but I'm not giving you my opinion unless you ask me. Yeah. Is that still your relationship with Big Boy now?

Yeah, because y'all still, like, work? To this day. to this day. Yeah, that's how I do. I do what he says. I do with you. Okay, so without Rico's presence on speakerbox, how do you trust your instincts?

I mean, by this point, they're now a marquee act. They're your A-listers. And without the muscle of organized noise sort of under them, I mean, even though they're there somewhat, how shaky was it to navigate a double-out of clearly two different sides. Right. And not only make it work, but make it one of their most,

and to take them on stage, I was there that night. I couldn't believe that shit. How hard, not hard, or how worrisome were you to like go with your gut being the, I'm assuming that you're now manning the ship for at least that album. Yes. You didn't have Rico there to guide you. Right. So things that kind of changed, they really grew into their,

they really had grown into it. I mean, this was after stankonia, right? And which was a massive success for them. And I mean, the real story was it was Big Boys solo album, right? And it was complete. And it was done. And I heard I like the way you move. So I felt confident that we had.

had like a big single. And Andre called because they weren't working together. I mean, this is fairly common knowledge, I think. They weren't working together. And Andre called the office. Reed, when you drop in Big Boys album, I gave him the date. He's like, so if I want to drop an album with that, how much time do I have? And I I think I told him you got three weeks. He was like, three weeks. Ah, okay. What? Wait, so we don't know this story.

Yeah, what was he in the process? What? I didn't know what he had recorded because he wasn't really talking about it at all. He wasn't talking about making a record. Big boy was gone solo. We've already done a photo shoot. We've picked a single. We've put the date on the calendar.

We're moving forward. And then I get that call from Andre. And he says, you know, how much time do I have? And that was the first time I had an indication that he wanted to make an album. We had not talked about it at all. And I told him three weeks, and I just remember him saying, okay, and he hung up.

He was probably done already. It had to be. All I remember is that on the night that we had to like turn the album in for parts so we could manufacture, Andre has studios going everywhere. He had mastering going on. He had a couple of mixed rooms going on.

He had an ensemble of studios going to make the deadline. He was working his ass off. I went to the studio to visit and heard some of the material, but he finished it and sat down and played it for me. And I could not believe what I was hearing, man. And he played me, hey, yeah. And I was like, oh my God. And I didn't try to say, I didn't try to go into the like, okay, yeah, this is a smash.

That wasn't how I reacted. I was more blown away that you actually did this in three weeks. And I felt like you did like, you must have had this. There's no way you did this in three weeks. Yeah, he did. Dante has a theory, though, when Pete Rock was telling the story of how he made public enemies shut him down in 10 minutes. And one of y'all said, like because of the pressure like he didn't have time to overthink it you're not thinking it

you're just doing yeah as also quincy he tells about the alpha state like he talks about that just record paralysis through analysis yeah yeah just going you're not thinking about it you're just created that's right you were presented with this scenario twice and i always wanted to know how far did tLC get and going with that initial thing where I believe Lisa suggested all three of us should make solo records. And, oh, not very far. Okay. Honestly, not very far at all.

Because T.Bas had made a couple solo songs that for a soundtrack. I got to remember the soundtrack now. The kids change is the touch myself record. I touch myself. That's the song. I remember that. I was thinking about that Rugwrecks thing. But no, that was that would have been after.

But so she did it. And it was pretty clear to me that it was the ensemble that was the magic, right? And I love T-Boss. Like, I mean, I loved all of them. But I had a particular love for her style, that raspy voice, her kind of her, she kind of approached it like a guy. She was the only girl I've seen approached it like a guy. But, but, but, and I just, I thought she was so dope.

But it was the ensemble that was the ensemble that was the. the real winner there. And then Lisa made a solo album before she passed away. May she rest in peace, I'm missing so much. She made a solo album and I wasn't blown away by it. I didn't think it was

incredible at all, you know. And it was, it was the kind of music. I should have loved it if it were good. It wasn't like outside of my thing. The way I sort of described Goody Mob as outside of my thing. So I got to defer to them.

This wasn't outside of my sweet spot, but I just didn't think it was great. And Chile never actually tried to make a solo record that I can remember until many, many years later. So that one didn't go very far. How did you balance a record like Crazy Sexy Cool where it's on your label, but you're also writing and producing? I didn't write and produce on it. Or is it you didn't do, that wasn't you in Babyface together?

No, no. That was when, that was the last time that I was a writer-producer was seven whole days, Tony Braxton. Ah, okay. That was the last time. And after, and I did, and then I did a song that never made, never saw the light of day with Elton John that Elton called and asked me to produce, right? And it was for a, a Curtis Mayfield tribute record, wasn't commercial at all. Okay. Elton was spending time in Atlanta for a minute. I was like, were you the reason that Elton was spending time? A lot. Yeah. But I stopped. I stopped. And Kenny and I stopped working together. And I started spending too much time on the phone. I was transitioning into being an executive. I was learning how independent promotion worked. I was learning how marketing worked. And I was so intrigued with the stuff I didn't know. And people were coming in and telling me about like Janet Jackson's marketing plan. I was like, what's a marketing plan? So I became curious about everything. And

and I was hearing words like, they shipped 100,000. What's that mean shipped 100,000? I just became curious about the business. I think I sort of fell out of love with producing and writing. And I was never a great writer. Kenny was a great writer. I was a good producer, but Kenny was a great writer. And I was a collaborator and I filled in some blanks and had some concepts here and there. But he was the great writer. So it was easy to sort of step back because I didn't consider myself great at it in the first place. I felt, I felt very lucky. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like,

and Dad, I think I want to really. give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating

draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green.

You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shown. shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So with the label, was that primarily you running the label and FACE just doing the music, or was he involved on the label side as well? I think if you ask him, he would say that he's always said that the label was kind of my thing. Because I like the idea of signing talent and doing all that stuff, you know, and picking songs and, you know.

So for a record like a crazy sexy cool where, you know, Babyface is doing like a dig, it on you or whatever, right? Yes. Is there no conflict of interest? I actually had all of the producers competing, and they didn't really know it. Like, I had Dallas working on it first. He was the architect.

Then I'd go play for Jermaine DePri and be like, I know you can beat this. And then I get his team. And then, you know, then Kenny is competitive. You don't have to, you don't have to put a battery in Kenny's back. He's so competitive. So he sent his songs in. And then I went to Rico Wade last and said,

here's what everybody else gave me, what you got? And he came over waterfalls. Wow. So according to, according to executives at Arista, outside of Outcast, they considered crazy sexy cool my first time as an A&R executive.

that I wasn't the writer, I wasn't the producer. And that was, and if it was my first, I didn't see it that way, but if it was, I did okay. With,

with no input from Clive at all, like, Hey, maybe. Not, once it was done, Clive had opinions about the singles. And,

and we had, you know, Creep was the first single. I love Creep, by the way. Man, that should still go off. So we shot a video for Creep.

Wasn't very good. So, damn. So we shot a second video for CREP. Oh. Again, wasn't very good. I'm like, fuck, now I'm in trouble. Wait, what? Yeah, we shot two videos, and they weren't good.

The world never saw them. Yeah. And so I was embarrassed, so I switched singles. I said, Creeb's no longer the single. We're going to go with this song called Kick Your Game that Jermaine DePree did. Calle was like, hold it, hold it, hold it. Why are you changing singles?

What is this? What's behind this? You have to explain. right and Dallas Austin call like yo I know you're not like not putting my single out like he knew he had a great record and so I had to come clean and said well truth be told like I made two horrible videos and I'm just too embarrassed to tell everybody so Clive says get it right he said get it right so I'm sitting with Diddy one day at the Helmsley Palace Hotel in New York I'm

sitting with Diddy I play him the TLC video that's not good and he looks at me He's like, oh my God, like, this is horrible. And he does not make me feel any better about it, right? But while I'm showing him the video on one television, because I used to have this rogue case that I carried around with speakers and monitor and everything, like office in a case. I was extra. While I'm planning it for him, on the television, there's a video with Envogue

and Salt and Pepper called What a Man, What a Man. And I look at that video. It looks way better than our video. I'm like, who directed that? It's Matthew Rosson. Yeah. So I called Matthew Rothston and I ask him to do creep. And we got it right the third time.

But we threw two videos away to get to the good one. I will do anything to find those original videos. In a situation like that, though, when TLC got to repay the money back, do they got to pay for all three of those versions or do they just pay for the one that made it? Let's look at it like this. We sell 10 million albums. Okay, they don't, okay. There you go, sir.

I don't know. If you want the truth, I don't know. I love it. That's all I wanted to hear. That's fine. That's fine. Because I didn't know. You know what?

It's so busy like trying to make the great record and try to make the great video. I'm spending people's money and not realizing it, you know. I'm leaving with anger because to sit in the Geffen offices and be told your videos are one and done. Like there is no going back. I can't believe that I'm hearing stories of we didn't like the video. Everything happens for a reason. It's okay. And we'll take it back. And then we'll take it back again.

And then we'll take it back. I hear Mariah made four videos for Vision of Love. And I'm like, that's a very old school thing though, man. No, but I mean, just our label convinced us that like, because we hated our videos. And, wow. And you couldn't do anything about it. Yeah, like you were stuck.

Either video or, no video, like, oh my God. Those roots videos weren't too memorable. That's why I hate making videos. She's being mean to you. Not too memorable. That's a mean. Listen.

The reason that I am here is because I'm the Roots largest fan. So I can say a couple truthful things. I'm here. I'm here. I'm not bothered either way. So, okay, I was always curious. The call, the night that left eye burnt the house down? Like, were you worried?

Not worried about stopping the bag, but... It was morning, first of all. It was early morning. Oh, wow. It was early, we were, we lived in the same... That sounds like a nighttime crime, not a daytime crime. No, we lived in the same subdivision. We both lived in Country Club of the South.

My housekeeper at the time was taking my son, Aaron. She was taking him to school. He was in the kindergarten. And or maybe preschool, but and she called. I want to say, I don't know if Pebbles was not home or I don't know for whatever reason I answered the phone. She said, I just drove by Lisa House is on fire. So I look outside. I see helicopters warming.

I'm like, oh, shit. So I just start trying to find Lisa. I just thought trying to find her. And I found her, right? I called every number I had, everybody I knew, and I found her. And she said she was okay. She said she didn't get hurt. She was okay.

And she told me it wasn't on purpose. It was an accident. And I immediately went to protect her. And I have friends in the police force there. Like the chief of police was a friend. And I just asked him, like, can you just help me just protect her? Like, I don't want her to be arrested. I don't want anything.

to happen. So he helped me. We gave her an entire floor at the Swiss hotel and Bucket. And with police, no one could get on the floor. And she stayed there until she had to go to court for it. And, and then, you know, but yeah, I didn't think about anything except her safety. Okay. 94, 95, especially 96, 97, is probably one of the most tumultuous. times in black exec. Yes. And, you know, all right, the thing is, is that we lived in Europe during this time period. So we really were sort of out of the literal crossfire.

You lived in Europe at that time? We, we, we, the shortest story is that basically we realized Richard Nichols was, was intuitive enough to the day that got. Justice sold, Kirk Cobain committed suicide. Rich said the label's going to drop us because by this point, Arrowsmith had went to Sony, Guns and Roses wasn't coming up with another album, and now Nirvana's gone. And literally, like, those three acts and all the billions that they made

enable Geffendab, a black department. And we were their first act, and Rich sort of had the spidey sense that everybody's going to get the axe. So we better just grab our publishing money, run to Europe, get a flat, and then just become like the black version of the commitments. Like get a tour bus and just tour all over Europe. So we just live there for like three years straight working. So we were really, we hadn't met none of our peers, none of that stuff. Like we come back to record new albums, see our families.

But for the most part, it's like six months touring in Europe and spot dates like all over the United States. States touring. But for the most part, we had missed a lot of the stories that we heard between like what was the trouble brewing between like executives. And you just knew, you knew how toxic that environment was. How frightening was it being a black executive? And more important, how did you avoid getting sucked into just, you? the toxicness of it all, where beef is now like a regular thing between executives, you know? Yeah. That's a great question.

And I have to tell you, like, I was really concerned. I was really concerned about it. And because I was, I was very close to Puffy, right? And I helped start bad boy, you know, I helped get him the deal for Bad Boy and very proud of that, by the way, because I actually wanted him to be an A&R guy at LaFace, and after one meeting, I realized that this is, this is nobody's employee. This guy's special, you know. And, yeah, I was concerned about it, man, because I felt, I felt like Atlanta wasn't the East or the West, so we were kind of, we weren't viewed as the competition for either the East

or the West, right? Whatever we were doing in Atlanta. to, even though like we were, we were having hits, but culturally, the impact of the West Coast was really huge, right? With Snoop and Dre and Pock and all of that. And then the bad boy on the East Coast, those things were like very front facing. And what we did at LaFace wasn't as front facing. Like our artists were, but Kenny and I weren't like that. We weren't, there was no chain. There was no, you know, we weren't like that, you know, so. But I can only imagine that. the more success you got, the more it puts you out front to become sucked into that. Because I don't think, I don't think that there would be a bad boy death row thing

if Puffy were releasing records produced by me. I mean, not to be self-deprecating, but I'm just saying that obviously there's a competition thing on what label is going to wind up on top. And you're actually selling more units than both those labels, at least for their artist alive. Right, right, right. I mean, you could have been an easy target. I don't thought, I was avoiding it, man, as best I could.

And I knew everybody. I mean, seriously, you had relations with Shug and you have relationship with Puffy and- Yes, yes. And I did know, I did not know Biggie and I did not know Tupac, right? I never, I can't say I knew either of them. I probably had one handshake with each person and a, in a, in a sort of passing, but I didn't know them.

And yeah, so I have, I tried hard, and I won't kid you, I am nobody's tough guy. I tried desperately to avoid ever being in the room. I wouldn't even go to the fights. So would you go to Jack the Rappers and all those things? Before I would, but there was a time. Was that important to go to or was that just a vanity thing? You know what it was important because all the DJs were there. Like all the DJs.

And at that time, DJs could make a decision about which records they played, right? Before the conglomerates took over, you know, DJs had some say. They had a say in what they played. And so we did. And all of the labels, competitors were there. You got a chance to see what the other label had, what they had coming. And if you needed to go back and do better or find another song or find another act. So, and it was good camaraderie.

It was really good until it wasn't. When it got bad, it got bad. And that's when I stopped going, you know. But I just tried to avoid it, man, and just stayed to myself as much as I could and trying to sort of diminish my presence. As crazy as that sound, right? I didn't want to be, you know, we didn't even have photo.

We didn't take pictures of nothing. We just stay in the background as much as we could. Was there an act? that you kind of purposely passed on signing just because like, uh, this might cause smoke for the label. Probably. Like,

I don't remember a name, but I, I didn't actively look for artists in New York and L.A. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't even going to lie, right?

I did not actively look. And so I was getting Chattanooga, Tennessee, Atlanta, Georgia, you know, you know what I mean? Des Moines, Iowa. Speaking of chatting at Newgate, Tennessee,

can we finally settle this once and for all? Can you please tell us the can we talk story? No, I saw, I saw what, I saw what Tevin said. I never had a say in that, because Kenny wrote that song and he produced it on Tavin Campbell,

and that was it. Like, there was never like a conversation, like, should we give it to Usher or should I there was never a conversation Kenny and I were not working as writer-producer partners

at that moment that he did completely on his own and gave it to Tevin Tevin sang the hell out of it and it worked so there was never any back and forth so you never had a

Dick Griffey moment where like Lefeith gave a song to someone that you know you could have used that song for your artist. And it's like, you know, come on, dog. Like, I could have used that.

I asked you last week if he had something for TLC and you said no. No, no, it wasn't really like that. And I was also very clear about Kenny's ambitions as a writer, right? Kenny wanted the greatest artist possible to sing his songs. And it wasn't about it for him, it was never about whether it was on the face or whether it was on Arrister or Epic or he never thought about it that way. He thought about it as, like the song Girlfriend that Pebbles got. The reason she got it is because he thought her voice was the right voice for the song. It was originally for Vanessa Williams, right? And he thought, he said, it's not right for

Vanessa. Because he listened to as a musician, as an artist, as a writer, producer, he listened to the voices. And he made his decisions based on the voices. And how do you all? with that. There's definitely a big difference between the pink that's signed to LaFace first few records and the artist that she morphed into. So how, what's, what's the, what's the conversation in the metamorphosis where, you know, there's a beginning and then there's definitely a separation

from what she was. And you're, you're part of that process. So like, at what point do you realize maybe I should loosen the strings somewhat and see where they go with it. Right. So first album, she did that album as a member of the group choice. And then they disbanded. And we continued the process. And some of the songs that were made for choice, she kept them.

But we struggled in the beginning. We really struggled because she was still growing. She was very young. And she was still finding herself, finding her style. And so we, the first album, we did the best we could do, right? It was called Can't Take Me Home, loved her concepts, loved her, how she thought about it. And I loved her voice and her energy. She was incredible.

Musically, it was a little bit undefined and all over the place. When it got so, but we had, we had a hit with, there you go. And she had a second hit called Most Girls, not as big a hit, but it did really well. So when it came to her second album, she hooked up with Dallas Austin. Her and KP basically oversaw it. And then she hooked up with Linda Perry. And when she first brought it to me,

I was like, wait a minute, you're abandoning like the urban thing that you started on your first album. Are you sure about that? And she was like, yeah, I'm not trying to repeat. that I'm on to something really special. And I was like, ah, okay, I don't know. I was like, I'll tell you what, if you feel passionately about it, I'm going to step back, do your thing, right?

And my exact words to her were, because I was a, I got this from Dick Griffey. I said, I'm going to give you an opportunity to fail. Never obtaining yourself, okay. Yeah, I said that. And I didn't really know what it meant, but I said it because Dick Griffey said it. Anyway, and so she did it. She came back and she played me, get the party started, 18 wheeler. And she played me all those songs.

And I was like, oh my God, this girl's made a, she made a real album. And we went with the work. He'll throw it with Dave Myers. They made a great video and she was off to the races. After that, when it came to her third album, I wasn't involved at all. I was involved at all. She got a new manager, Roger Davis, very famous manager, who also managed Tina Turner.

Yeah, Roger Davis. Roger Davis. So her and Roger kind of, they did it all and just turned it in. Like, I wasn't involved at all. And when it was done, I didn't think it was particularly good, honestly. And I left the company right as it was time to release it. So, and it didn't do that great. I don't understand when Laface just amalgamates into Arista.

But do I recall what you actually went back to school? I did. Because Swiss did the same thing. Like, what is this? Yeah, I did. So what happened is I got contacted by the Bertelsman, the company that owned Arista. BMG, yeah. BMG.

The head of BMG visited me, came to a, Atlanta visited me. This was early too, man. This was like probably 94, 94. And that early on, they said, we would like to, we want you to prep yourself because at some point, we want you to take over Aresda records. And I was like, yeah, right. That's what I thought to my, I, I didn't believe it. 94. Okay. So a couple of years go by and they call again. And Instead, this time they don't say Arritha, they said, we would like for you to go back to school. We like you to go to school.

We can get you enrolled in a program at Harvard. You'll have to go and stay on campus. You got to stay for 10 weeks. You cannot run the company. You can't talk to your artists. You can't talk to executives. You can talk to your family. But we need you on the campus

and we need you to put in 50 to 60 hours a week doing case studies and living on the, living on the campus and really studying international business. Wow. Okay. It's like a jail sentence. I liked the idea of it because I didn't go to college and I regret it not going to college because I opted to be a musician. I opted to go on the road.

That was college to me. So I liked this idea. So I went and I stayed there for my 10 weeks and it was really hard because it was really, really hard. So I got kids on campus to tutor me and helped me get through it. And I made friends with other people that were in my dorm. So it was like the students were teaching each other. So you really had to go to Harvard and stay at Harvard and you had to do that. Yeah.

Yeah, I lived on campus. And at this point, like, I'm a, I live in Atlanta. I'm a, I'm a musicians, half musician, half executives. you know, I'm a hybrid. I'm a very weird hybrid. I don't know how to dress. I don't know how to walk. I don't know how to talk.

I don't know which handshake to use. I'm, like, completely confused. I'm a fish out of water in the greatest institution in the world, apparently, right? So it's very intimidating. Everybody seemed so smart. I mean, the accents, you know, when you hear, when you hear guys with Indian accent talking about EBITDA, it sounds smarter, you know, or guys from the UK, They always sound smarter than we do, right?

Right. So it's just all very intimidating. And then I found my groove right around halfway point. I started to find my groove and figured it out. And at the end of it, I graduated. And I didn't know if I would. What were some of the things you learned from that program? Like, how did that be?

We really studied businesses. We studied things like things that you would love. Like we studied decisions that feel night made to make Nike a success. We discovered, you know, things like that. Like, and we would take it in steps. Like, they would present us a case. They would show us the dilemma or where the company could go one way or another. And then they would test us basically, like, what decision would you make here?

And then we would go to the next sort of chapter of the story. And it was just basically case studies, studying each person's case, not only in entertainment or an apparel, but everything from public utilities to, you know, hospital, to grocery stores, to,

um, automotive, Toyota, uh, to Disney. We studied, we studied businesses. There's,

of course, a famous book out now called the Harvard report where they first did a case study of Clive Davis. Yes. Embracing black music. Were they still using that book as a, No, we never got there. But they have so many.

Like they collect case, they collect case studies from all over the world. And each professor would select the cases that he wants to use in, in his classrooms. But there's no, there's no set stories. I knew about the Clive. They actually did one with me about,

it was like the study of black music, right? And they did, I know a lot of people that they've actually done the reports. They don't publish them all. They don't actually use them all. But they just basically collect information. And they teach it. And it's good. The way we went about it, it was intimidating at first until I got my groove and realized that there were things I knew that some of the people in the room didn't know.

Once I got that confidence, I was like, okay. because they study in business, but you've been running one. Yes. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends,

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wadom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was my based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right.

It wouldn't be that. There's a lot in luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fultonar Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of the Away End,

a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game.

I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, I have one confessions question. I kind of consider confessions the end of the parenthesis of whatever, I'm, I mean, I really can't tell what the first mega album,

maybe Carol King's Tapestry was like one of the first mega selling records. But, you know, Usher's Confessions comes at a time when streaming culture

is about to confuse the whole entire industry where buying a tangible record is a vote. So this is kind of a part one and part two thing. When Confessions was said and done, did you realize then that there will never be another mega-selling album of this nature again in the music business?

Wow. No. I didn't think of it. That's incredible that you should say that. No. Confessions is the, like after that, then. That's the last, that's the last, like, diamond album? Yes.

Literally. Damn. Because after that, streaming comes in and ruins it. But I was asking. that only because of his Atlanta roots. I always wanted to ask a CEO, at least what their feelings of what streaming was threatening to be. And of course, you know, there's the Napster situation that sort of confused people and

had them in their feelings and then accepting iTunes and whatnot, even down to DJ dramas of rest. Like, can you talk about what the, at least the scary environment? for what music was about to become. Now, somehow you managed to... There was a piece in and in between that, which was downloads. And downloads, while they weren't physical, were still a la carte.

They were still, like, sales. So the next chapter of successes were measured through downloads, right? Some physical, not that much, you know, but CDs were dwindling badly, final was completely out of account and downloads with a thing. So we still had... But as president, did you feel the pressure that I got to figure out something quick? Like all my label, like my artists went from $10 million to now to sell $3 million is an achievement.

Although it's not your fault per se. It's just right, right. How are you dealing with that as a CEO and as an executive? Yeah, the idea was just to not buy. bottom out. The idea was, yes, the sales are dwindling and it's across the board. It's not one company that's dwindling. It's not one artist that sales are dwindling. The entire industry is going down the tube. Napsters introduced the download. So we're fighting piracy at a rate that we've never had to fight piracy, at least that we know of. So with that being the reality,

it was just get the best artists and the best records you can and do the best you can and I never really measured it against like I didn't even know that fact I didn't know that confession's light was maybe the last diamond I didn't even know that

Confessions and speakerbots were the last of the Mojica. I didn't even realize that so I didn't in my mind compete with it I didn't think of it that way I thought of it more as meaningful bodies of work which I felt Kanye made as an example, right?

And I was really proud of everything for the time I was around him. I was proud of those records. And I felt that they were, I felt they measured up to whatever we did with Outcast, whatever we did with Usher. And I also had like Mariah Carey's Emancipation of Mimi, right? And that felt like the, for me, that felt like the follow up to confessions. Right. some of the same kind of sounding records.

That's how I looked at it. But I didn't look at the sales and I didn't look at the challenge that we had as an industry as a threat. I looked at it more as, yes, we need to figure this out. And once you come to Def Jam,

like, you kind of have to start all over again. Like, what is it to meet your, especially coming from where they came from as far as like the era of Julie and Leor? Oh, yeah. Like to come in there. and to be the new guy, like, was it feeling with side eyes and no. Oh, my God, man, it was crazy.

It was, it was crazy. Was Tracy Weeple's nice to you? Basically wasn't there when I got there. Okay. She came once, once Jay was president, right? But man, it was, it was scary because it was a real, first of all, I didn't realize. Here's the thing about Def Jam. Like, if you're a part of that culture, you realize how important that culture is.

if you're not a part of it, you don't really know. So as crazy as this sounds, I didn't know that it was what it was. Like, it wasn't that to us in Atlanta. I mean, it was a successful company. It was big. We respected. We knew Russell. We knew Rick Rubin.

We knew Lyra Cohen. We knew Chris Liddy. We knew L.L. Kool-Jay. We knew it. But we didn't think of it as the institution that it was. We didn't see it that way. So when I walked in, I was shocked by it. I was shocked by it all.

I was shocked by the voice of the community and their opinions about anything that happened. I didn't realize that Def Jam belonged to the streets. It belonged to the people. Like, you know, Funkmaster Flex had a say in every, I mean, just making up names, anybody, right? Everybody had a say in it. So when I came in as a new chairman of the company coming from my background, I was immediately made to feel uncomfortable, right? executives were taking out articles in the newspaper and in Billboard magazine, talking about how I wasn't fit for it and how, you know,

how would I know how to go talk to DMX? Like, you know, it was, and I felt it. I really did. I felt it. And I didn't feel welcome at all. And I loved Julie. I think she's one of the most remarkable executives in the world. I love Kevin.

I think he's one of the most remarkable executives in the world. neither of them made me feel welcome. And, and... Oh, wait, so Kevin and Julie were still there when you came? Yes. Oh, I kind of thought they all left together. Yeah, they were there when I got there. Only Leor had left.

And I didn't feel very welcome, right? And I didn't feel welcome by the artist either. The artist at that time, you know, I loved them, right? Method Man, Red Man, Ghost Face, L O'CooJ, the only one, and Jay-Z was like on semi-retirement. Right. Rockefeller. And the artist that embraced me was Kanye West.

Wow. That was the one that embraced me, right? So that helps. That helped a lot. And this is early Kanye before he released his first album, right? Although it was already done and slated to be released when I came to the company. But I met him and he said to me, because you understand. outcast, you'll probably understand me. And that's how, that was the first conversation we ever had.

And I locked in with him. And then Mariah called and, because her and I wanted to work together for years. I tried to sign her at Arreston when she first left Sony. And so I had Mariah embracing me, but no one else. So Mariah says, I'm on the phone with Mariah. This is really good. She says, you know how you can put the fire out? I was like, how? She said, make Jay Z the president. Oh, man, no. That's Mariah.

You don't like that idea? No, well, you're asking the wrong person. She's being overprotective. I was too, I was way overprotective of the roots. I had a whole conversation with Jay on the radio about the way he was handling his presidency and the way he was handling all the Philadelphia acts at the time. So, no, as a radio person and from the Philadelphia person, I was not feeling that. but the artist, he's great.

Oh, yeah, okay. Anyway. But you know what? When I, when I, so Mariah put the idea in my head. I presented it to Jay, didn't get an answer right away. Eventually we were able to come to terms and he became the president of Def Jam. And at that point, that made the piece and everybody left me alone. Wow.

But Method Man wasn't happy. Ghostface wasn't. That's something I did not know. Wow. Yeah. And a lot of the artists, like I met a few artists that, that have said to me that they, because it's a two-way street. When you become, you're ahead of a label and you come in to an established company, you're auditioning for them. It's not the other way around.

It's not the artist need to prove to you. It's you need to prove to the artists, right? Right. Right. And many of the artists were like, we're not even going to give you a chance. because A, we think you might be R&B. B, we think you pop. Either way, we don't think you're hip hop.

So I might be coming to your office, right? So that was a very difficult thing. And I was like, yo, okay, I hear y'all. I still have the biggest selling hip-hop album of all time. Do I get a meeting? Because you're not beat the speaker boss on the other below yet. So can I at least get a meeting? I can't even believe that you would have to beg,

for meeting. That's great. I was not embraced. It's okay though. Like I'm not saying that like I was cool. And I just embraced those that embraced me. And we and we ended up, we created a different kind of label as Chris Lighty, may he rest in peace, loved him. He said, this is la face jam. This is not deaf jam. One very unusual deaf jam signy at the time that I consider. Can you talk about what it took to market and break Justin Bieber? Oh, yes. So I love that. That was a

gift from Usher. Right? Usher came in. He said, I have a gift for you. Came in. I thought he was going to bring me cigars or wine or something. I love this story. I love this story. Yes. A white man. I love it. That was a gift. Yes. And

he walks in with 14 year old Justin Bieber. Justin comes in and he's beaten on the table. Right. And he's playing the piano. He's playing the guitar and he's singing. He's jumping around. He's talking. He's a mile a minute. And I'm just staring at him like, this is star. I mean, I got my star hat on. I'm like, this is a star. This dude is a star. I'm telling you guys, I thought I, I ain't a lot. I thought I met Elvis. Wow. Wow. Seriously, I was like, this dude right here. Because the girls all talked about how pretty his face was. And not pretty like in a negative. way, but in a way that they loved him, right? All the girls loved him. And then artists, not all artists, but many artists like kind of liked him. And so we went about making the record and the first record with strategy.

You want to do strategically? I have this theory that Blue Eye Soul is the music that has the greatest opportunity for global success. That's my, that's my opinion. So we put him on black radio. First thing out, put him on V-103 in Atlanta. Wow. That's where it started. He had a song called one time before Baby.

Okay. And we put it on V-103. And we, that's what we did, man. We went black first. Mm-hmm. And then we put it on rhythm and then we crossed it over. But we wanted to give him some black foundation. And he had the check, the endorsement, because of,

Usher and me. So he had real, and dream and tricky were making his records. So he had, he was covered. Which he could have went the other way because wasn't it a battle between Usher and, was it Justin? Justin Timberlake. Yes, they both wanted him. It was.

They both wanted him. And then, and after that, then Kanye embraced him, you know, and it just kind of worked out. Everyone fell in like. Break everybody else, yeah. All right. I'm going to slowly wind. this down. Okay. And we, I can't believe that at this point, oh my God, this is like the old school. It's near four hours. Yeah, we're knocking on four. This might, this might be three

episodes. My sister just smiled. We said, we're going to wind this down. Yeah, I'm sorry. I seen her walk past about three, four times. Like, I'm not, I'm just saying, I ain't saying. I mean, at this rate where you've worked at labels and whatnot, do you believe in the theory that I hear people say all the time, like, it's going to be the end of the labels, no more labels. If it is going to be the end of labels, what will happen to music next? Because I do feel like something is going to eventually give. Like I feel like this decade that we're in the 20s, everything is giving. So should music follow suit?

Are you prepared to aid in the next step of it? Or is it sort of like, all right, I've done my bit. I'm going to sit out. I'm definitely not done. First of all, I ain't said, no, nothing, man. They got to, they got, yo, they try to take my head off. I still got my head. So, sorry.

So I don't believe in that. I think that labels have historically not been well loved, well liked, and for a lot, for the right reasons, probably. But throughout time, people have not, record labels do not have a great public perception, no matter what it is, no matter, you know, culturally maybe so like people like Def Jam or people like Bad Boy or Motown or whatever, right?

But culturally it may have a lot of impact, but the public perception are that record companies are generally, Brooks, not upstanding people. So people have always wanted to see the demise of record labels. I think that, and so now we live in an era of independence, right, where and that's good in that and there's bad in that right the bad in that is that there is no barrier to entry there's no filter so everything is out everything is on Spotify everything is

on Apple everything is on SoundCloud everything everything like there's no filter for it right and and so we're now we're leaving it to the editorial people uh the or the music editors to make the decisions about which songs are good enough to be on the world's biggest playlist. But they're picking from 60,000 a day. I like to, so I don't, I don't see that as, I don't see that as great, right, at all, because I like the idea that tastemakers, curators of music, passionate music people, make decisions about what they love based on their experiences and those things get a shot.

Not that the other things shouldn't get a shot, but I don't like the idea that it's a free-for-all. And there's a fallacy there that you can be chanced at rapper and you can be independent and make it all the way to the top. But as I understand it, he's probably got 50 like employees and a lot of money and all kinds of stuff. That's not exactly the same thing as being, just a starving kid in Columbus, Ohio

who wants to be independent, right? That's not the same thing. He has money. So if you're a kid, if you're a 15-year-old kid in Columbus, Ohio, and you don't have a record label, you're told to do it on your own, man, you don't know what to do.

You do not know what to do, right? So that means that you're going to put your music out. It might get wasted. You're going to waste a lot of time. You're going to get discouraged. And we might actually not see the next star because you've been discouraged before you get an opportunity to come out of the gate. Whereas if someone embraces you and put their arm around you and says, you know, I believe in you.

And oh, by the way, I'm leaving out something very important. You're a highly trained, wildly successful, massively talented musician. And you respect people who put the timing that you put in. Whether you like their music or not like their music, you respect the fact that all of you guys are seasoned executives. and seasoned professionals and respect people who do. There's something to be said for the people who are just doing it as a hobby, who aren't serious, who aren't as serious as you are, who aren't as talented as you are,

who aren't, who haven't been challenged the way you have, who have never been on stage, right? There's something to be said for the fact that we need the music infrastructure as a training ground. Right, somebody needs to know what it's like. I mean, that's so anyway, my feelings about it are, I'm very passionate about it. So how do we get back?

Do we get back? It's not, it's not actually gone. Record labels make more money than they ever made. Huh. Is that true? That's interesting. That's interesting. Records make more money than they ever made.

I truly thought that record labels were kind of on a defibrillator stand. Yeah. No, bro. Record labels are killing it. Universal music is, is, is, is worth over 50 billion dollars. bruh, a music company. I'm not talking about film or TV or tech. I'm talking about music content that you created.

Right. But Universal at this point owns so many properties in that way, right? Like, it's not as many individuals. They've been gobbling up labels for years. But the point is that they are making an absolute... The record labels are making an absolute fortune. Okay. An absolute fortune.

And I don't begrudget it. It's beautiful. You know, I wish I was very... right there getting bonuses right now. I'm not mad at it. But the point of it is that the infrastructure hasn't died. It takes a record label to say, okay, hey, little Nazex. That's an example. Little Nas X, he comes out with his old town road. It becomes some kind of a phenomenon, independently, by the way, gets picked up by a major label. This is an artist like him or not. This is an artist that has a massive creative vision, right? And it needs to have the kind of

financial support that he can, he can get that off. He can't do that independently. Those ideas are too big. Honestly, those ideas are very expensive. Otherwise, we get a fraction of who this artist could be. If he wasn't signed to Columbia Records, I'm saying that he would be a success, but he'd be a fraction of the artist that he could be,

because now he has the infrastructure to really get it off. He's the artist that fits in that mold. I mean, for me, when I taught the young artist coming up, my thing is just if you're going to sign to a label, if you're going to do that, my advice is if you're going to do it, you might as well play big. You might as well swing for the fences. That's the only reason to do it. That's the only reason. If you just want to, if you're just truly an independent person, not just as a label, but just as a creator, you know what I mean, if you just want to look, I just want to do my shit when I feel like it, put it out when I feel like it. Great.

But a major label is not for you. Like that's not what that is. Yeah, it's not for everybody. But to me, the game is not for everybody. That's what I'm trying to say is that it's not for everybody and it shouldn't be so easy to get in. It's hard. It takes, it's harder. You can't just get into NBA because you like basketball.

Right. Can it be some gray in between what you're saying and what's going on right now? Is there more gray than your? Maybe. Possibly. I'm open. I'm open minded. So that's quite possible.

But what I'm, but what I am, what I am, what I am, what I am, a strong advocate of is, are you serious about the game? Are you serious about this? I don't like the idea. This is not for hobbyists. Serious don't mean what it used to mean. I know.

And that bothers me. Serious don't mean reading your trades and reading all your books. It don't. But are you the last of the Mohicans? Like I know there's you. I know there's Sylvia. I don't know if Doug Morris is still in the game or not,

but, you know, like someone else is running, I don't know who's running Def Jam now, but someone that. My man, Tungi. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tungi's running that jam? Yes, and he's really talented. Yes. And I'm happy, I'm proud.

I will support and promote and do anything. He is really talented. And he's about that music. He's about culture. He's bringing African culture into the country with FOV. He's looking forward. And he's doing it based on talent. He's doing it based on qualification.

And he's not just looking at data and saying, I should sign this because it's streaming. He's looking at it. And he's listening to the music. And he did it with Keith Cool. It very much reminded me his trajectory. He was very much like you in the sense that Keith Cool was like his la face. So yeah, absolutely.

You know what I mean? And then, you know, he came and they brought him in the run-depth. Yeah. By the way, like, I don't know what the roots are. Exactly up to recording artists wise. If it was me, as a music curator, now Def Jam is the perfect place. Man.

Well, guess what? You know, the thing where, like, I don't know the movie or the sitcom example of, like, when you think you're like, that's your last statement and you like burn the house down, or like, you're the father like, and I'm leaving the family. and you leave and then you come back because you forgot your keys.

We just got reminded by Def Jam. Oh, by the way, I remember what we said, but you guys actually do, oh, it's one more record. So it's like, huh, who do? I think this is a great thing because I think that I, A, I know that he loves you. I know that he loves the roots and understands it. And it's also possible that he might make a suggestion

or two that you might like, right, about try this or try that, right? I think it's that to me, literally all the signings, I feel like, are the roots grandchildren. So yes. Oh, children. They are. That's what I'm trying to say. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Right. That one, to me, you know, as someone you didn't ask, right? That's, that works. I got it. Before we go, man, I know you have a, I just wanted to say this, man, you played a very, And I'm so happy we're having this chance to have this conversation. You played a part in my career that I'm sure you have no idea. You did, but this is back in like 2007.

You had a group on your on Dev Jam player circle that they were through DTP. And so my man did not pour to shut him. He hit me to do some records. He was like, yo man, I'm burned out. I need just some hook ideas, whatever. And I was like, all right, cool, whatever. So I just referenced a couple hook ideas for them and sent them off. And I didn't think that knows of it.

And so the song that I did, It was a song called Paper Chaser. And I just sang it as a reference. And so the joint ended up, I didn't find out until, like, later that the song actually made the record. And so I ran into Tidian Dalla. We was at B-T-Words in 07. And me and Dalla was talking, and he was like, oh, my God.

I was like, Y, I'm Fonte, man. He was like, oh, yo, what the hell? And he said, man, the thing with that record, he said, we sent it in. And he said, we was thinking about, like, getting A-Con on it because, you know, A-Con was going up at that time. He was like, we just think about getting like A-Con or somebody where on it. He said, but L.A. Reid was like, yo, who's the dude that singing on it? I like him.

Just, it sound good like that. Just keep it. You know what I'm saying? And I just want to say thank you so much. That really put, yeah, really gave me just a lot of confidence and believe I'm like, yo, this dude. A battery in your fucking. Woo. I was like, yo.

That's great. Just thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's great. I'm so happy to hear that. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. I appreciate this on behalf of Fantillo. Oh, very quick. Thank you for putting out Splakiavelli by pressure. Yeah. And by the way, Amir, you are like, you, like, you, like, you're the dopest dude in this business, man. Like, just, that's got, I just, I really love and appreciate you, man. Like, you just, yeah, you make me proud to be a part of this thing.

Well, I think. You represent us well. And I appreciate. you for not dropping me on my birthday. I'll never forget. I think, by the way, I don't think that's the truth, but I'm going to let you have it. That probably was Rich trying to get him and finish some shit.

That was what that was. I don't even know how you do that. I called you on my birthday. I remember that. I remember that. But anyway. On behalf of Unpaid Bill and Sugar Steve, sorry, Steve, we once again,

hogged all your questions. All good. I've been reading my recent episode of Black Beat magazine the whole time. Yeah, you tapped out on me, sugar. You tapped out on me, but it's all good. All right. On behalf of Laia and Fantigolo and the great L.A. Reed,

this is Questlove Supreme, and we'll see you on the next go round. West Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor, the fourth. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the sports.

Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-host at the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel on our podcast The Away End. We'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.

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