The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Lena Waithe

Episode Date: February 22, 2026

In this Classic episode of Questlove Supreme, you will hear about the state of Black television, the lifecycle of a script and working on shows like Master of None and The Chi.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players

flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12

and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to QLS Classic Episode 80 with Lena Waif from April 2018. Fresh off for Emmy Victory for riding on Disease and Sari's awesome master of none. We chop it up with Lena Waith about life in Hollywood. Star now as an intern, to an assistant, to an actress, to creator, to showrunner.

Her journey's still going strong. So get ready for a nice ride and enjoy Lena Waif on QLS Classic. Suprima, Supraima, Supraima, Ro! Supremea, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Her name is Lena, yeah. Not Linnae.

Yeah. Clever roll call verse? Yeah. I don't have en. No. Supremia, so, sub, sub, subprima role call. Supremma, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. My name is Fonte.

Yeah. My word is born. Yeah. Only Lena I acknowledge. Yeah. Other than horn. Roll call. Supreme.

I know that's right. Suprema role call. Rob and Fittina. So prima roll call. Her name is Lena. Yeah. Let's introduce her. Yeah.

Even though common. Yeah. Is her exact producer? Rojo. Suprema. Subrema. Subrema. Suprema.

Subrema. Subrema. Subrema. Suprema. Suprema. Supremea. Role. I'm unpaid bill.

Yeah. And when it's said and done, yeah. I'm the jack of few trades. Yeah. Master of none. Hey. Roll car.

Supremea. Subrema, sub, sub, subprima, roll car. Suprema, sub, subrema, Roecahn. Yeah. Up in this piece. Yeah. I love me some leaner.

Yeah. But I'm looking for Denise. Roll call. Hey. Suprema. Subrama, sub, sub, sub prima. Roeca. Supreme.

Supraima roll call. My name is Lena. Yeah. I'm from the shy. Yeah. I hope I don't mess this up. So I don't die. Roll.

This is a good turn. Suprema. Suprema. Submina. Role call. Suprema. Subrima. Role call.

Suprema. Suprema role call. Yes. Ladies of gentlemen, welcome to another episode. of Quest Love Supreme. I'm your host Questlove. This is Pandora.

Hello, Team Supreme. What up? Yes. Hey, question. What's stuff? Everybody? Hey, chatting with sugar. Yo, man's got a logo.

Man's got a logo. Let's move on. We'll talk about this some other time. Like, it's like you made her mark, and now you are officially, uh, Sugar Steve, chatting. He's the flash of the crew now. He's, yeah. It's coming in.

in two weeks. Yeah, I have, just so you know what they're talking about, I have my own talk about. I have my own talk show now. Yes. Ones IG. He has a spinoff already. It's all chatting with sugar.

Yes. I still think you should change the title, man. Brown sugar? Well, that's not true. To what, though? Not yet. It's already in the history books, man. Well, not, chavily.

Sometimes there's just no going back. Well, no, you didn't want us call you, you sugar Steve when we first started the show, and I had to force that title on you. So, I mean, you know, he's branded. I like chatting with sugar. I'm gonna pop in on you one time. I'm gonna join.

You said your wife watches the show, right? My wife is an avid watcher of chatting with sugar. She's the number one fan. Steve's already starting to change. The shit is really happening. She's one of 17 followers. I know it's really happened. I see you all the time on it.

But you taught me everything I know as a host. Oh, God. That's always the death nail. Whenever someone says you talk me everything. He's like, that's why I's failing. I was like Pandora's about to offer me Oh god Anyway ladies and gentlemen Today our special guest is an accomplished

Actress, producer Screenwriter, showrunner, director She made history in 2017 As the first, wait, are you tired of people bringing up this fact to wait about you? Like it's a unicorn Like it is though I mean, here's the truth

Can I be the first show that doesn't just bring up that fact to work? No, bring it up No one will let you not bring it up. That's the thing is I have to just own that it's always going to be a part of my life and my career. But I think it's a, you know, it's a cool thing. It's a really. It's a cool thing. You know.

But it's also sort of sad that in 2017. There's still first blacks. That's the first. Yeah. But people have to be reminded of that sad fact. Yeah. But it was also, it was dope because I share it with Donald. Like Donald is the first black person ever went for directing an episode of comedy television.

So I feel like it was nice to make history with him. So I did a Hallie Denzel. before the Emmys. Yeah, yes, exactly. I love when we do the interview before I even get the introduction out. I know. She made history in 2017

as the first African-American female to win an Emmy for outstanding writing on a comedy series for the very excellent Thanksgiving episode of one of my favorite shows, Master of None. And you're also the showrunner of the critically acclaimed Shai.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah, creator. Also a big thing for a black woman because it's only like three of y'all. It's true. It's true. It's like me,

Shonda, Mara, Courtney Kemp, who created power. A lot of people forget about Courtney, but Courtney's like, out here doing it. Does she count? Is she caught in waiting.

She's shonda and waiting because she's about to do get Christy love. We still haven't introduced our guest. Oh, okay. Welcome. We need to wave to Questlove Supreme Court. Yeah, yeah.

Yes. I'm happy to be here. I'm glad you're here. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, well, my question was, are you tired of having to bear the burden of being the first of, you know, in 2017.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'm tired of it. I think I'm very proud to be a vessel. That's what I really feel like. It's like, because I know I'm not the first black woman who has written a funny episode of television. I just think it takes the wild, the industry a while to kind of catch up. So I think the stars are sort of aligned and for me to have that amazing accomplishment. But the truth is, I was just, I went to the Oscar parties.

and stuff like that, got a chance to chop it up with Hallie Berry, the one and only. She still looks great. And the sad part was when we watched the packages for like best actress, best lead actress, she's still the only one. No one has followed her since winning for Monsters Ball. And so, and I brought that up, you know, to her. And I thought, man, like, that's still, that's troublesome. And she said, yeah.

And I think for me, my biggest mission with it is to make sure I'm not the last. It's to do, I'm out here mentoring like crazy. I'm trying to, you know, walk people into rooms because I don't mind being the first as long as there's others that can walk through. Because then what happens to people just celebrate that moment and go, oh, aren't we grand? Like, we had this moment. And I think Donald feels the same way. I think, you know, I think we want to make sure that we're this short list that we're on, which we are on, there's a very short list of people that they just go to us for everything. We want to make it longer.

We want to introduce them to these new writers that are out here doing dope stuff. What's the process of even finding quality? Because I know like there's an argument of being included or getting a seat at the table versus bringing something quality to the table. And that's often a debate we have. I mean, there's, you know, black film out there now that might or black actors or writers or whatever who are. be whatever, but it's black. We got to support it. Right. Else we ain't going to get a nose. And some that bringing the money aren't necessarily the quality

that you particularly enjoy, that sort of thing. So how can you how is one able to vent through that? Because I always felt as though the process of getting to greatness. Not saying that I've ever heard stories of Martin Scorsese being an

intern on a set somewhere. Eventually working his way up to what do you start with Woodstock as an editor? But it's like what's the process of getting in behind the scenes? Because I feel what's more notable about you is that even though you're an actor's I know on a show I like,

your behind the scenes work is very substantial and that I feel is more important for you to pull people in. Right, right. Well, look, I mean, you bring up a really interesting point because it's a very controversial topic, you know, that I'm trying to deal with. And I got a, we just got greenlit to do

a pilot called 20s over at TBS, which is a half hour, which is loosely based on my 20s being a queer black girl living in Los Angeles, who, thank you so much, who is an aspiring television writer as well. And she's a little bit, this character is not exactly me, but she's a little bit ballsyer than me. And there's a fictitious, you know, black show that she's trying to get a job on. And she talks to her girls about it, and she's like, man, I don't go work on that show. And, and, and... Is this based on the G-word? No, no, no, no, no. Because I know you worked at girlfriends. Yeah, but no, it's not that.

It's not that. No, no, no. Okay. But honestly, it's like, it's not based on, I'm creating, like, characters to kind of talk about issues I want to discuss, even though. But I'm also just using my dating life as a bit fodder for, like, this character. But the thing is, is, like, there are shows that black folks don't love, but you can't say it in public. Right. And so.

That's every show. No. No. No, what, for black shows? No. Okay. Who don't like Atlanta? Right.

Right. True. Well, man, Atlanta is a fucking unicorn. Who don't like blackish? No, those are critical. I'm talking like, like, Tala Perry. In public, you say it and to other people, yeah, it's cool. Well, I don't know if that, I don't know that's necessarily true.

I think there are people that genuinely, can I curse on the show? Yeah. Because people that genuinely fuck with those shows. You know, oftentimes they live in the South. You know what I'm saying? Maybe not. Maybe they're supposed to be living in New York City. No, they live in the South.

My mother watches those shows religiously. But I'm just saying, but there are people that really focus. I'm talking about shows that you feel like, or even movies sometimes, or you're like, okay. And you see the campaigns. Like they go on Instagram, all the celebrities are saying, yeah, yeah. There's a guilt trip you almost feel like you own if you don't go see it. You don't post your ticket, you know.

And I just kind of feel like that then becomes, it kind of goes, oh, don't they join. No. I mean, look. Hey, you're telling the truth. I'm just saying, like, there's a guilt that you feel. And the question that becomes is like, when do we get to that point? But I think that's why, again, it's proof that the playing field is still not leveled. Because we don't have enough movies where we can skip it.

How many white folks you know it's like, oh yeah, got to go see Death Wish this weekend. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. It's just like, but I do think there's this pressure on black folks to go support black stuff, whether you love it or not. And I just don't think we've gotten to that place where you can't go online and be like, even if even with my show, I don't know what's real.

Because I don't know if there's somebody's going to come on going to y'all. Yeah, the show is it's okay. Because then folks would be like, why are you hating on? You know, da-da-da-da. That becomes, and my thing is I'm like, I welcome it. If you don't fuck with it, tell me why. So then I can improve it. It's like in private amongst us.

I've heard some interesting Chicago comments about the shop, but they would never say it in front of others. But my thing is you have to. Like, what's the deal? I feel like until we can start criticizing each other in public, we ain't going to never overcome. Like, we just kind of have to. But I think there's this thing of like we don't want to talk about.

And trust me, I'm guilty of it. Like, there's things that maybe I don't love, but I ain't going to talk about that shit on Twitter. I ain't going to go in on Instagram. I'm going to be supportive. And I think that's just about our community, too. Like, we just don't kind of air our dirty laundry. Like, if I have a criticism about your show, I can say that to you, me and you talking,

but I ain't going to say that in a room full of white folk. You know what I mean? I get it. But I also think it's, and I think Donald and I have had this conversation is that he and I always want to be better. We always want to make our stuff great. You know, we don't ever want somebody to say, oh, yeah, I like that show because I'm supposed to. It's like, now, mind you, we can't.

please everybody. You know what I'm saying? We're making TV shows. This is our point of view. This is our cities through our lens. So everybody may have a different version of Chicago than I do. Or we may have a different version of Atlanta than Donald does. But I think if there's a real thing of like,

that is not a real thing in the city or we don't go through that or that's some fake shit, you don't know what? Like, please, by all means, like tweet about it, talk about it, pipe up about it. But I do think there's a lot of these black artists live in this bubble of like you only wanting good things. And, you know, there's some artists that I feel like I like to call it being under the tent for too long where they start, you see, you see their material.

And it's almost like watching Muhammad Ali fight pass his prime. Well, okay, is there a such thing as snobbery? I shot it, it starts fire, but you don't know who I'm shooting them at. So it's all good. No, no, okay. So let's take, like, does it make me snobby if I look down on Meet the Browns and Tyler? because, I mean, the pros of it is that he has his own studio. He's putting people to work.

Right. Yada, yada, yada. But. Charming, dude. I met him the first time over Oscar weekend. Yeah. Spocking a lot, Tyler. But I'm just saying that the way that Spike went about criticizing him.

Right. I mean, is it, again, it almost makes you question your taste. And I have this about hip-hop all the time. Like, you know, I wasn't very forthcoming in a day. and saying that, oh, I mean, maybe I was a little indifferent to something. Let me think of something. Camino. Cardi B or like something.

No, no, I'm thinking of something old. Okay, back when, all right, so back of the day when MJG first came out or UG. Okay. Oh, yeah. I was slow to open up to UG and MJG. And then once Reek started really fucking a bit on the tour bus, and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, Chicago that way. Yeah, we used to really go hard on that.

It took me a while because I came from jazz. samples with like my East Coast. That sort of thing. But is it like I'm trying to figure out if either I have my mentality and willing myself to like something that I normally would think is lowbrow humor? I think you just have to, for me, I look at it. You have to look at the audience that it's intended for. And like does something, does it hit its target?

You know what I'm saying? And so for me, like my mom watches meet the Browns and like what's the other one you got the have-s and have-nots and love of you is wrong. Oh, that's true. You can't call her while this on. This is like an S&L skit us running through these titles, don't it? She watches them joys. It's always like, it's not for me.

You have to learn it's like, all right, this is not my kind of thing, but the audience that he's going for, he's killing it with that audience. You know what I mean? But again, is it subjective? Is it really low-brow humor that you're above or are we just past it all and we're We think we're better than that. Look, here's the dude. And I own my snobbiness.

Like, I'm totally aware of it. Like, I work in the business. I have a very critical eye. I try to sometimes come back from that, but I just can't. And also, my fiancee is, well, she's, she's an exec, but now she runs Michael B. Jordan's production company. So we are aware that we go to the arc light. We have our assigned seats.

Like, we're those black people. Are you serious? But, yeah. Like, it's just like, whatever. Is it what it is. But I think, to me, what's scary about those shows is that they're constantly being pumped to the same black auditors. audience is what happens is I always look at it like food and what you digest. So they're being

given McDonald's, which is fast, it tastes good, and it goes through you really quickly. And it changes your palate. Exactly. Exactly. So then it's like when you try to give you something like filet mignon, like foie gras, caviar, it's cargo, a la moonlight, get out, things like that. Sometimes it becomes difficult for them to eat that food. They have to stop it in higher. Because they're so used to McDonald's. So that's my only thing. I was like, I'm cool people, you know, taking in that kind of entertainment with the tough thing. especially for black folks. It's like, it's like, what I want is for our people to have a more sophisticated palette, so to speak, which is like they go see boo, you know, but then also

go see moonlight, you know, go see, you know, a movie-like shape of water. I just kind of want our folks to have that kind of exposure. It's not unlike, you know, when you deal with kids on the south side who've never been downtown, you know what I'm saying? Like, they're only watching those shows. And so what happens is, and also, too, even though yes, it's funny and light and it's all good and Tyler is, like, I like, I think it can get a little nutty when that's the images are so powerful. Like, because I grew up, I was very blessed. Like, as a kid, I got to watch a different world, like, every Thursday in a Cosby Show and, like, Fresh Prince and and things like that. And so I was seeing images of people that I wanted to be. They were smart,

they were fly, they were cool. They were literally on a fictitious, like, HBCU, you know, a campus every week. And it may seem like, oh, isn't that cheesy. But look at what it did. My production company is called Hillman Grab Productions. Yeah. Yo, I was going to say at the end of... The shy. First of all, y'all have a lot of tags at the end of the show. Hopefully I get rid of some of the motherfuckers. No, that was the funniest thing to be, because after the third one, I was like, waiting for, do-da-do-do-do-doo.

Right. There's so many people. At least I got a card in that, motherfucker. But when I saw Hillman, I started going back. I was like, wait a minute. Yeah. That's a... And I said, that has to be her. Yeah, and look, it's like, some people know, some people don't. It's like, whatever.

If you know, you know, if you don't, you don't. But when they get it, I really fuck with you usually. They go like, oh, they're... It's your show, though. Why would you put yourself fifth? Like, wouldn't your card be... No, that's Hollywood politics. Yeah, about this...

It's my first show, so you get executive producers that go, well, I want, you know, where the cards are placed. It was my first show. Did you even know to ask for that and the... They gave it to me after the fact. I want some stuff happened in my career. They were, oh, yeah, we'll get you a card. Lena, let me ask you.

You mentioned Helman. That's a whole other conversation. You mentioned Helman in a different world. I was wondering what you think about the evolution of to Grown-ish, because I just really started watching that, and you know that that is a real child of a different world. Yeah, I would never put the two in the same weight class. I mean, honestly, to me, that's no shade to Grownish. It's intense, especially because it's on free form.

I haven't watched it yet. I've seen it. I'm addicted to it. I kind of like the two. People kind of be throwing shade at it. I was like, I'm kind of into it. Yeah, some people I know. Maybe it's those black people that's like, don't want to say something publicly,

but some people be coming at me about it. I'm like, I don't know. I kind of get a good vibe from it. I mean, it's just that. It's interesting. I'm intrigued by it. First of all, it's a free form show, which is basically like the, channel very few people get.

The ABC family, right. Recontextualizes free form. Yeah. But it's like, I don't see. They fucking suck in and everything else on that. She pops, she pops, she pops, uh, pills every episode. Oh, shit. And it's like, they're trying to have sex.

They're trying to go. They're trying to. get real with it, you know. But I mean, again, it's like to me, it's like, I just don't, I would never put them in this. Even if Kenya was sitting here right now, he'd be like, please don't put that on me. I wasn't put it on. But would it be there if it wasn't for a different world? That's what I was kind of saying.

I'm sure. I mean, I don't know. I just, here's a deal. I'm in a different world purist. And I think that. And I think that. And I think that grownish is not, because that's not the age we see. No.

No. Yeah. So I was kind of like, I think so, even with dear white people, people would try to like say, oh, are you guys influence. I'm like, no. I'm like, because dear white people is literally a metaphor for America because it's like the black people on that campus are a minority and it's all about how weird you feel and like what kind of black person you are

and what kind of black people you hang out with. So I just think it's very different. I think a different world existed in its own space and time. I'm also one of the people that's anti-reboot of it or all this kind of shit. I just think it's silly. It's like a different world existed at that time. And we don't need to reboot it. We don't need to have another version.

And I've gotten to get cool with a lot of the actors from that show. I'm just like, no, son, it happened and thank God and a little bit alone. I have a thought about Bad Boys. It should never been a sequel. Like, Bad Boys is a classic. It wasn't supposed to work. It did by accident. Thank God.

Bad Boys 2 and Bad Boys 3, I'm not here for any of it. It is not here for any of it. Wait, what? Yeah. I think they pulled it, though. Okay. They stopped talking about it. Thank you.

I'm going to do an iconic slow motion shot. The Shaft is getting the remake. Everybody's getting. But I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Well, yeah, grownish to me is like a more nuanced. friendlyer version of kids. Oh, wow.

I mean, it's real. I mean, kids were shocking in 95. Yeah. But now that's just like, oh, that's a Tuesday. Yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. of, you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Lena, what was your beginning in the world of acting? Like, how did you first start? Honestly, like I... Or a production or... Well, I'll talk about the acting.

I had no plans on being an actor. Like, I literally give... give a lot of credit one to God because he ordered my steps. But also to these amazing casting directors that looked at me and said, bitch, you should be in front of the camera as well. And one of them was Allison Jones, who was a famed casting director. If you Google her, I mean, her credits are ridiculous, everything from like, she cast freaks and geeks, which literally gave us, you know,

Seth Rogan and James Frank, all these people. And then she also cast like Veep and Bridesmaids and all these amazing things. So I heard she went to meet with me. I didn't know why because I was like, I'm not casting anything. But I went and sat down with her and she asked if I had any interest. in being an actor. I said, no. She's like, okay, but let me bring you in for some stuff. And so she did. She brought me in for some things. I booked a small part on the comeback season two, which was a Lisa Kudrow show on HBO. And then she didn't even call me in for Master of None.

Like, apparently Aziz and Allen just said, send us interesting people. And by the grace of guy, she said, well, then you should meet Lena. I went to Aziz's crib, sat with him and Alan. It had a, just, it was just myself. And I got a call then like, hey, Aziz wants you to come read with him. I saw the pages and I was my writery self and I said, yo, can I punch this up? And Aziz's like, sure. And so I did. And so I was saying stuff back to him that he obviously wasn't prepared for and he was sort of chuckling and laughing. But Aziz and I just had an instant like vibe and a chemistry because people seriously ask us if we've been friends before the show and we had, we met like, you know, at his house and talking and doing these scenes. And then

he called me and he's like, come to New York for a couple months and do this show with me. And I just really went off of like the fact that I was a fan of his already, his humor, the fact that he knows black culture in a very unique way. And I just loved him on Parks and Rec. And I literally, I had just sold The Shy to showtime. And I was like, can y'all give me three months to go away to do this thing? They were like, okay, sure. And so I came here. You don't know what you have with Netflix.

It was early Netflix still. We were like one of like Netflix's like fourth or fifth original show. So we didn't know what it was going to be. We don't have an audience. But we just trusted that what we were doing was something interesting. It was new. It was fresh. And people just really responded to it.

And then for the Spielberg joint, Ellen Lewis, another famed casting director, saw my picture in Hollywood Reporter and was like, why haven't we seen this girl for this role? And my agents were like, because she's not auditioning for stuff. So I came in, read with them, read again. Thank God, Spilberg was not in those auditions. But after the second one, he saw my tape and was like, yeah, I want her to be in the movie. And then I went to London for four months. So wait, you just said something real big.

Before we saw your face, you had a deal with Showtime. They had bought the pilot. Yeah, I written the pilot and they were like, yeah, we want to make this. How did, I mean, because people. So what was the time between making your pilot to? Well, I wrote the, well, here's the deal. We shot the first pilot and we weren't, we weren't super happy with how it turned out. We thought it was fine, but we were like, they were like, I told them, I said, I need a director that really gets my voice.

I know my voice is unique. I know the shy is not the typical formulaic show. So I need somebody that's not the typical formulaic director. And Rick Fama Youa became available. And I was like, can he do get a swing? at it, they were like, sure. They'd like, we think that'll be a great match. We got a new casting director. We got a, no, Jason Mitchell came in and

read, and Jacob Latimore, all these amazing song on your song, all these amazing people. So the original pilot is different than what I've seen on the pilot for a showtime? The script is the same, but the cast is different and the director is different. So it made a world a different. Can you please I just want to A. B, them back. Can you send

me a copy of the original one that you had? I don't even know if I have an original copy of it anymore. I got to see that. Because like, that was two years ago. But it was like, and mind you, I liked it. I thought it was fine. But I think Showtime, and that's the testament to them. They really believed in it. And they were like, we think we can do better.

And I was like, okay. I was like, cool. Now, was there any concern of yours that Showtime was trying their hardest to not mention the W word as they gave you the shy, like, you know, we need a wire. Our version of the wire, like that sort of thing. It's funny. Like, they didn't know. They didn't, well, they didn't bring that up. at all. And the crazy thing is, I don't want to be a bad black person, but I never, like,

obsessed over the wire like that. I was more about the corner. Oh, white people love the wire more than we do. Yeah, no. I love the wire. But I was more into the corner. Steve and white people love the wire. Yeah. White people love the wire. They love insecure. Like, they're like all about it. You know what I'm saying? But it's like, but I just never, that was never my thing. Like, the corner was really dope. This is a thing that Spike did long time ago. People may not remember called Sucker Free City. That was, that was really cool that really, I just really liked and thought it was really interesting. So those are things, and also, too,

like House of Cards, you know, had come out and I was really inspired by that. So those are really inspirations for me while I was working on the Shai in terms of characters being interconnected and bumping into each other. And, yeah, but it's so funny because I understand the comparison, I guess. But when you watch The Shai,

it's completely different. I know there's no comparison, but just with large black ensemble on a cable show. Sure. You know, there's the hood. And, I mean, the campus on the wire had a connection with each other. It's sort of like an effortless, watching the magic circle for the Harlem Globetrotters. Like a very effortless, no look past chemistry that they had with each other.

Right. So. The shot, like, my biggest thing was I didn't want to focus on the system or the police or the cops. And I think we're going to get away from that even more in season two. Because I think first season was like, okay, well, what's the engine? But I was like, I would say, like, I really don't care about the cops. I care about the people. Like, I don't want to talk about the police.

I want to talk about the people who are being. least. Like, that's just more interesting to me. So not to step on your toes, boss, man, but I'm like, okay, so nobody saw your face yet. You have this deal with Showtime.

I know that your background as writers assistant and your relationship with Gina Prince Whitewood. But can you really break that? Like, who the hell are you, Lena, to get these amazing deals to this writing?

Like, where did you come from? Ouch, my toes. I'm so sorry. I didn't, I'm so sorry. But I just... You know, like, honestly, like, I, you know, graduated from Columbia College, which is in Chicago, moved out to L.A. in 2006 and just started pound on the pavement, just grind it. I think it's just a Chicago hustle in me where I was just

like, I went out there with the intent of running the town. And I was like, eventually, and, you know, and I think that was genuinely my mindset. You know, I wasn't like, oh, I'm going to win the Emmy by this year. But I was just like, I want to be a phenomenal writer. I really cared about the craft. And I think that's a big thing I see was I mentor a lot of young writers. I think that's sort of the last thing on their list to conquer. They're sort of like, well, where's the red carpet, like, when do I get the deal? They don't realize there's so much politics. You're talking about me being a third card on my own show.

Like, these folks be thinking you get a show and like you king or queen. It's like, no. It's like, I was like the least powerful person at the table. Still, and it's your brainchild. Now, no, now I'm in a different space. Right. You know, but your first season. And here's the truth. And that's no shade to my network or my seal. That's any case. Like, if you go sold a show tomorrow, they don't know you.

They can fire you. They own your show. Dude. Yeah. But how different was your, like, the day after the Emmy. Like, it's, with the Emmy, the... Oh, the Emmy changed there. Yeah. I mean, let's, you know, I...

Let's be clear. Like, I just... And also, too, it's like, it changed the dynamics on the shy for me. It changed, you know, in terms of how I walked to the world. But even, here's the truth. Like, I was already very clear about who I was, the kind of artist I want to be before the Emmy. Like, I was, you know, I would say no to things.

Certain things I would go, like, I don't know if I'm the right person for this, or that just feels like a check and I don't want to... to just like sell myself for that. Like, and I think there's this element where I sometimes see people that go like, but why would you not do that? That makes it. I'm like, but it may seem cool. Don't get caught up in the announcement on deadline, you know, because that's fleeting.

It's like, it would be a cool thing for people to retweet? Sure. But like, what about the quality of my life? Do I want to work with that person really? Yeah, they're a big star, but do I want that person being my partner that I'm getting in bed with? It's like, no, I'd rather go with the normal motherfucker who ain't that high than the famous person that might give me a headache. Oh, you know what?

I'm going to use this moment. I'm sorry. Now I got to step on all y'all too. I need some advice right now. Go ahead. Advice from Lena Witt. Don't eat in bed. Yes.

We're not talking about it. I eat in bed every night. No, J. I'm sorry. I miss my very white cute. I'm sorry. So, So when you, just for those that don't understand the process of creating a script and show running,

can you run us through? So are you saying that once you complete a script that you're happy with, you and your collaborator, you yourself, whatever, once it's in the hands of the production company or the whatever, showtime or whoever you're rolling with, is it, 100% out of your hands? Is it up to the director to then see what he wants to, or she wants to see with what's on the script? Well, it usually depends because, like, for me,

and I'll try to take you through, like, a fictitious scenario. But, like, but even for the shot, I wrote that by myself, like, on spec. On spec means for free. Like, nobody paid me to write that. I just said, I want to write this story. So I wrote it. And then I gave it to my agents. And I was like, okay, I want you guys to send us out to production companies.

Because I do feel like, having a production company, then you, like, he's just like, Brad Pitt's production company called Plan B.

You know, what's another good one? I don't know. Carrie Washington has a production company. There are certain places you can give you a script to because at the time, like I wasn't really your name.

So I was like, maybe I can get in bed with a producer who has a little bit more weight, who's got those connections, that then, they then say, okay, we put our arm around Lina, we're going to walk into all these different networks

and say, we really believe this is a thing. Or then go to a studio, because a studio is like a bank. A studio, they pay for everything and the network. airs the show. So I got in bed with a producer, Aaron Kaplan, a dude, I call him a Tony Soprano of, like, TV producers. He's got like eight shows on

that. He's an EP on. And so he doesn't necessarily have to be like super involved in every single show, but he's a person that has a lot of like connections and can walk in the door and say, yeah, I think this is dope. So he and I, he's like, if I can't produce this show, it's not producible. Okay, I believe you. So then he takes me into a studio, which it was now Fox 21, but it used to be FTVS. So, so he was like, yo, I think you guys should read this girl's script. Andy Bourne, the exec over there,

he read it, he's like, I like this script so much. If we don't sell this script to a network, we're going to fold into a blind deal. That's how much we believe in Lena. And a blind deal means if it don't go,

they'll pay me just write whatever else I want to write. So that means they had a lot of confidence in my voice and who I was. And around what year is this? Oh, Jesus, I'm so bad with that. It's probably like three or four years ago, something like that.

Okay. So then, so now I got a producer, who has his production company, he's like a production company. And now I have a studio. So I got a play. us saying like we're going to pony up the money for this show whoever decides to do it so then they're like where do you want to sell us to then you figure out what makes sense for the show

like what's a good home for the show so I was like I really like showtime well they just done this show called the affair which I thought was super dope and really unique and really fresh and I was like if they can do the affair they should want to do you know the shy so um so we went into showtime first that was like that was like my top school that I wanted to get into so we go in the showtime we have a wonderful meeting and they bite immediately they're like yeah we love it We love you. Let's do it. So, and by that time, and also some other stuff, like, comment was like, I want to be involved. I was like, you absolutely should be involved.

We brought him on as an EP. And then we even brought in a director as well. But low-key, I think, depending on who you are, you don't necessarily need a whole army to walk with you into a network. But it's only no longer out of your hands once you sign a deal with somebody. Like, if you sign a deal with a studio where they're like, yeah, we want to be in business with you, Questlove, with this script. We want to buy it. We want to give you a check. We're going to do all the thing.

Now they do own it. They now own it. You don't own it anymore. And if they don't like you or you do something wrong, they do have the right to fire you off the show and bring somebody else in to run it and do it. And even on my show, my first season, I had a showrunner.

I didn't run that show for the first season. Because also you don't want to show run your first season because being a showrunner is like the worst job on the planet. But it's also the most powerful job on the planet. The showrunner has more power than the creator of the show. Does that make sense? Because the showrunner is the person who is running the room, who's talking to the network, talking to the studio.

And a lot of people don't even know what the showrunner is. So funny, like, I'm not putting nobody on blast, but the showrunner of Empire, who still is, was never Lee Daniels. He created the show with Danny, right? Danny Strong or something? They created the show together, but neither one of them really... Well, Danny might say he kind of helped showrun.

But, yeah, a white woman, showrun, that continues to run the Empire. I don't tell the secret. No, I just thought it was Danny Strong. I mean. Eileen Shakin, who created... Who ran El Word. So by the transitive axiom.

Because I know what that is. Because yeah, what? Yeah, what did you just say? The transit of axiom. A equals B and B equals C. So A equals C. Okay, I knew that as the transit. Is that helpful?

Is that helpful? Is that helpful? Now I'm trying to transit axiom. You're basically telling me the Tony Braxton or TLC story. Like, you're on LaFace, which is a production deal under another entity, which is under Arista Records. So it's like She has more power than them, right?

No, no, no, I know. But you say you have the option to either go with someone that can walk into the room. I'll either Brad Pitt or whoever the Tony Subrano is. Yeah, Iron Caplin, right. Right. So are you saying that it's likely, it's not that likely if you yourself just walked it to the head of Showtime? It's nice. Well, you actually.

You need heat. But see, I don't know if I agree with that anymore. Sorry. you're youth now though. No, but the truth is they wanted my script. They wouldn't have cared if I came from 10 buck fucking two. So what I'm saying, the position that you're in right now, yeah. Would you walk someone direct to? I already have. I already had. Like there's a writer on my show. Direct to the front of the line

or is it like come through me and then I'll put you through my boy and then my boy. No, no. I'm a, I'm a believe of going straight to the source. Like there's a girl who writes on the shy who's super dope. Her name is Kathy Kasake. She wrote a phenomenal pilot. She also wrote another pilot. But I'm an EP on that pilot and we just had a meeting at show. Showtime and like we went around all the kind of stuff like that. I was like we're going straight to the source. Now mind you, I have a very different relationship with Showtime now. And so when I walk somebody in, they're like, oh, great.

But I also believe that at the end of the day, everybody, a dope script is like a freaking lottery ticket. Right. So you don't need, you know, a team of people with you if you got a lottery ticket to go cash your shit in. If you got that lottery ticket, that's all that matters. And what's happening now is like content is king and queen. So they don't care where you from. Look at Diablo Cody. Like she, look at her story.

Look at, you know what I'm saying? Look at, even though Jordan Peel had been around for a long time doing that. But like, that script was something people were like, okay, this is a game changer. And that's all, you never heard of Blum House. You know what I'm saying? But they were like, we want to do this thing. And now everybody named Mom would want to get in business. But ultimately, it's like if you got a dope script, those execs want to make the thing.

Now, what they want to do is surround you with people who know what the fuck they're doing. You don't want some kid, you give them a keys to a Porsche. It's like, okay, go drive. Go drive. So it's like, so what happens is usually you sit in the passenger side while somebody who knows how to drive, drives the car for you and you tell them where to turn and where to go and keep straight this and that. But it is very complicated.

It's a thing that nobody knows. It's like, you know, it's like even like with TV works, like no one person can write every single episode of a show. You hear people like Aaron Sorkin and like Matthew Weiner, but people like even Shonda and myself, like we need help to do these shows. There's a writer's room. There's people we have to lean on and trust. And, you know, a lot of us have showrunners, you know,

that are running the show for us. And we give the creative input, but if you don't get along with your showrunner, it gets real sticky. So from the time you created the pilot to it actually making it on air, that was, what, three, four years? About maybe two, two years, actually, yeah. Because one year, we shot Doorson. We took another year to do that one and they put it out.

But how many great scripts get overshadowed because there's not a great team around it? I feel like that happens all the time. Yeah, and it's true. And I think that's what the blacklist site is becoming really helpful. My dude Franklin Leonard started that. We're like, anybody, you ain't going to have a manager. You can have nothing. If you put a script up there, you pay to get a,

evaluation if you get like an eight or above, that means you got a really good script. And what happens is people like me can download them, send them around. So I went on my Twitter and said, look, I got to, I now have a development fund. I'm looking to find writers. I don't care where you are. If you got a manager, you've got an agent, if you're young, black, old, white, gay, queer, whatever. If you got a dope script that's interesting, that makes sense for my production company

to help get developed and get out there in the world, I want to see it. When you talk about how to cut through all the clutter, that's what the blacklist site does. And a lot of black folks sometimes be like, well, I don't want to put my shit into the internet. I'm like, look, what else? What's your alternative? You know what I'm saying? It's like pay to get in value. It's like 75 bucks for a feature.

Like something's less than that for a pilot. And you put it up there and you get professional fucking feedback. Because that's a lot of people out here writing in their offices and thinking they got Shakespeare. And then somebody's like, no, this is the have and have not. It's no shake, no tea. You know what I'm saying? But at the day, it's like nobody's getting feedback. What's the website, Lena?

Say it again. The blackless site. But actually it's the site. It's without vowel. So B-L-C-L-L-S-T dot com. B-C-L-L-S-T dot com. But if you Google Franklin Leonard blacklist site, it'll pop up. And you don't have to do it.

All you got to do, if you got like $75, you got a feature you want to just upload, pay to get a fucking evaluation. And if you get a five, you know what that means? Maybe you get some writing classes. It ain't nothing wrong with that. If you get an eight, that means you got a pretty solid script on your hands. And then you should either hit me up or you can hit almost anybody up and say, hey, I got an overall eight score on the blacklist site. And motherfuckers in the business will know what that means. They're going to go, oh, so that means you got a pretty decent script.

can you send us and also here's a great thing it cuts the work out for me because I'll send me that evaluation it'll tell me how many pages it is what the logline is what the title is it'll tell me what the strengths are in the script what the weaknesses are and what its potential is I'm sorry what's the how long does that process

take for him to evaluate sometimes it takes about like you know a few days sometimes a week okay niggas don't know about this shit unlike unlike someone playing me a demo and I'm telling you there's maybe eight times

in my life, I listened to a demo. His was one of them. No, for real. Like, Jill Scott, Slum Village, him, Blau. I'm almost... Oh, damn.

You have a good, good joints. Yeah, like, my, my, there's, yeah, I don't have the patience

to sit through. But how did you, my question is, but how did you, how did you end up listening to like a Jill Scott's demo? Very specific circumstances. Okay.

Long time ago, Jill, I was really, I was really, and I thought, it was smart with you. I was curious. I thought,

it was a man, I was, She knows. You were trying to get with you. People seen that video. She knows. She don't know. She might be back in the market now, too.

I think she's back on the market. You're not. You're not. You not. You not. I have a woman now. That's right. Okay.

Sorry. Sorry. I won't eat in bed no more, I promise. Got you. You better eat in bed. No, but, no, it was very specific circumstances. Like, what was it? Like a thunderstorm when we were at the Little Brother show at Duke?

Yeah. So a thunderstorm. Um, uh, a thunderstorm. Um, canceled. our show. And I felt bad for all the Duke fans that had to stand this monsoon away for the roots to come on. So I was like, all right, let me just go in the front row and shake

everyone's hands. And you put it in my hand? Yeah, I gave it to you. I gave you the little brother, like our first little joints. We had like four or five joints. Yeah, he put it in my hand and I don't know what made me just and I never, it's always CDs are always like coasters to me. Right. I was like, let me listen to this. And I heard a sample. I recognized child. I was like, oh shit. And then I realized that, oh.

these guys are awesome. Wow. Yeah, it was very rare circumstances to which and Bilau was like a human saxophone or something when you heard his demo. Blah was just crazy. Still is.

Yeah, but he still is. Crazy talented, yes he is. But that's the thing. It's like, you know, for reading script takes even more energy out of these shit. I was going to say, for me to listen to a five minutes song, it's hard as hell. That's easier for you.

You need silence. Oh, that's time. So do you have a regimen that you do? Like, you spend two hours every morning in silence looking at scripts? It depends. I mean, honestly, what I try to do is make it so that if I'm reading a script, it better be damn good. So I have...

How do you know if it's bullshit? By page what? Oh, I can tell from the first, like, what's your opening line? I mean, it's right. The voice is either there or it's not. It's like, it's almost like singing or a competition like that. It's like either you can hear it from the first note. To me, action lines are really important.

important because, and so is dialogue, but action lines are the things that you guys don't know or see, like, you know, that's, you hear the dialogue, but the action lines are like describing the space, describing the characters. That's where my personality comes out, you know, about how I describe someone. Like, I'll describe a character, like, she has a kind of beauty that sneaks up on you and she has mommy issues that she still hasn't dealt with. This is so-and-so and she's 35 years or whatever. That's how I'll describe a character, which speaks to how my personality and who I am. So you want them to know how smart and witty you are

based on how you describe characters. Yeah, like that's me giving you my shit, you know, because when I start, when the characters start talking, that's them. Like, I can't, you know, I have to step into their shoes. But in between that, I get to kind of have my own little relationship with the reader and not the audience, because the audience

isn't going to hear that. But the director looks at that as a way to go, okay, God, this helps me cast, this helps me determine what she's going to wear. And the way to describe the room or if I'm like, I described like a hotel room like this is the place where you know

sex is exchanged for money in this hotel room They didn't know what it is They didn't know how to So that's also my way to communicate with my you know production designer My wardrobe department

All that kind of stuff as well Awesome lesson So tell me about your pounding The pavement days Because I don't want to I don't want to think that your life was 100% green lights No

Yes Lena coming And sit down and have a seat at day Uh uh like So the pounding The day that you decided to go to to L.A. to pursue your dream, I assume, in 2006.

Or wait, weren't you with girlfriends by 2000 though? No, uh-uh. I was with a girlfriend the last season, like 2008. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was what to say.

See, that was like two years. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Because I graduated from college in 2006. So I literally, like, moved out there. And it's funny because my first internship really kind of was with Edmonds Entertainment, when it used to be called Edmonds Entertainment, which was Babyface and Tracy when they were

They still together. Maybe they weren't together anymore. Please say Half Pliny. Ah. No, she too young were ahead. No, I wasn't there yet, but I knew about that movie. You about that movie. That's my life story.

I love that movie. Oh, man. Half plenty is dope. Who hooked you up with an internship? You know what? Actually, I just found, because Columbia College has this great message board where you can see about internships, so I saw it on there.

And then, like, this white guy, I think it was Lucas. He was working for them. He called me in. I didn't need much. You know, he was like, he's like, okay, you're on time, your resume is cool. And I interned for them. And, you know, I was around Tracy and, you know, those guys.

And they were, like, do, they would, like, they had, like, a studio and people come in and do music. I remember Tyreece used to come up in there. And they had, like, very expensive cars. I remember Eddie Murphy might have been kind of sort of dating Tracy at the time, I think. So I saw him a few times. But, like, they were doing, like, reality show stuff. They were, like, I was, like, a PA on some of their stuff they were doing.

But it was just a cool play because I was like, oh, these motherfuckers that did soul food. Like, this is lit. And so I was up in there. And then. I started working a reality TV where I was like a person transcribing videos for the real world and shit. Like it was,

that's how you make money where you live in a lot. You got to work in reality. And then I started, because that was from like 6 p.m. to 3 a.m. every night. And because I wanted my days free so I could intern. So I interned at a literary agency

that ultimately ended up reping me later. But I was there from 9 to 5 in Beverly Hills and drove an hour to the valley from 6 to 3 a.m. for like two months. I was about to ask you where your first apartment was. Yeah, deep in the valley. Okay.

Yeah. So I was asleep on weekends. Your day job was nine to five. But not even day job. That was an internship. Woo. So I wasn't getting paid. Eight three hours.

And then from six to three. It started off as three days a week. And then they were like, well, we're going to bring somebody else saying. I was like, no, I'll do it. Yes. Because I was like, if an opportunity comes up, I want that opportunity. So they're like, okay, so you really want to work here five days a week and then go to work at night every night?

I was like, yeah, I'll sleep on the weekends. How long was this process before you felt there was a light at the end of the tunnel? Man, I just kept thinking that. But I did that for about two and a half months. months. And I kept thinking, like, I'm going to get something out of this. Like, me doing this, something's got to come out of it. And then sure enough, one of their clients, they were like, one of our clients, he's a new assistant, and they happened to be running girlfriends. And so I was like, I want to interview for that job. So I went in and, like, look at a room like this

with my competition. And I was like, ain't, don't any of y'all know this show better than me. And I walked in there, got the job and it really was the start of my life, you know, in that industry. And I got to meet Mara, Tracy Ellis Ross. Like, Kenya was working on the game at the time. Like, everybody I'm cool with now. Like, I'm cool with now. Like, I met. at girlfriends. And all of them have, like, Prentice Penny, who was like, he might have still been, like, staff writer. He now runs Insecure.

Karen Gist, who was writing on Girlfriends at the Time, now run Star. Regina Hicks was currently riding on Insecure. Like, obviously, Kenya Barris went on to create blackish and grownish on this kind of stuff. So, like, all those people, and then, like, you know, you got my black ass who's over here trying to do something, too. But they literally, like, Kenya texted me last night. Kenya was like, bitch, you don't fucking Kimmel?

What the fuck? Like he's like, I think for them it's trippy because they remember me being like the showrunner's assistant. Can you tell me? What was your biggest like Mara lesson? I find her so fascinating. Oh, Marr's dope. I mean, honestly the thing I learned,

she's not a person that's like, like say this directly to me. But what I took from it was like she was a real, I think a politician in that like she's like JFK. You know what I mean? Like very, she's, she knows it in order to get you to pay attention. she's got to bring a look, a brand, a vibe. And I think that's what people don't really know about Mara's brilliance in terms of her brand, is that when she walks in, you're already, like, sold.

Right, because she's going to. Whatever it is, you're like, I'm going to buy it. And I think that's a big thing I really picked up from her is that it's not just about having, you know, talent and scripts, but it's about what's your brand? Like, what's your personality? Like, who are you? And even, like, her and her husband and the kid, like, that's a part of her.

her brand. Like being a mom, being a wife, and having, you know, you know, doing love is or, you know, being Mary Jane. Like, all these things are pulled from her life and her, like, girlfriends is pulled from pages of her diary. And I think I really picked up on that. I was like, oh, I should just talk about who I am and be myself. And people will always remember that. Like, that's why I was just telling some of my advice the other day. I'm like, these fucking general meetings that people have that they go on. I'm like, what's the fucking point? It's like, if you can't, when you walk out of that room, you got to haunt them once you leave a room. They got to go like, I can't get this writer out of my head because the story they share with me.

Whatever. It's like going there and treat it like a fucking therapy session. Don't be crazy. But like tell them like what's going on. Like if you went through a breakup, like say that. Like, you know, if you went through a thing, say that because you never know what they went through. That may resonate with you. Like what?

And the next thing you know, you're having a real connection with an exec that may not even like your script that much. But when you walk out the door, like I feel like that person just really gave me a real moment. That's what I used to always do. I was going to walk. When I walk out of here, they're going to feel like they're going to feel like they. had a real conversation with me. And for the most part, they would, because I would give them some real shit.

What, what, uh, what will prevent, not prevent you, but now that the heat is on or now that it's on and popping? Right. Um, Whitney Cummings once told me, like, at one point, it was so exhausting for her. Yeah.

And, uh, fine-tuning every detail of her show and two broke girls. And at the time, she was trying to develop, like, two other shows. And I was just like, you know, When people ask me on the, like, when do you sleep and all that? Right. But it's like, I mean, with me, it's like I kind of have a team for each project I do. So I can just come, check out of the shoulders, check out of the shoulders, you know. Right. But are you totally immersed in all the projects that you're developing as you have to micromanage every fine detail of all these projects or, you know, at one point, will you become Dr. Dre? And just.

No shade? Hell yeah. Oh, well. Motherfucker, I'm afraid. Look, nigger, I saw the Divine ones, you know, I saw him in that studio. Which is brilliant. His wife was like, won't you be home? Like, I don't know.

Okay, cool, babe. That studio is crazy. But I think I don't need, I don't micromanage every project. If I did, I would never sleep and I wouldn't have a healthy relationship. There are certain projects, like 20s with that pilot, like, I got to micromanage that because I'm still trying to get a series order.

There are people out there like, oh, you got another show. I'm like, no, not yet. I got a pilot order. Me and Justin Simeon's going to come and direct that pilot. Yes, so we're very excited to be working together again. We're going to try to give them a phenomenal pilot so we didn't get a series order. And then it's about I'm going to try to bring Susan Fels Hill in, a co-show run that with me. She was a showrun of a different world and she's phenomenal.

But I want to bring her in to help me run that and have, you know, maybe have her teach me some things. I'm going to go like, hey, I want to do this and learn from her. Deshae, I have a phenomenal new showrunner. Her name is Ayanna Floyd Davis. She's a black woman. She's Jamaican. She's like the auntie. I always, you know, never do it.

I needed. But she's a showrunner. So it's like, I'm there to help and guide, but she's showrunning. I got a project with Kim that Kim Whitley, who played my aunt on Thanksgiving. She wrote something for her, Lucy based on her life. So we have a set up somewhere. We're still trying to get that series order.

I still have some writing to do on that one. But yeah, I want to find a showrunner that really gets her voice and gets what I'm going for. So again, I think you're right. It's about having teams of people that you trust and you love and you fuck with. And I're really talented because I, and there's things I'm producing. That's what I really like producing, because then I ain't got to, like,

come in and advise and give thoughts and this and that and then go, you could take it to leave it, but I think you should take it. But, you know, but I think that's really how I think you build and build a brand. And it's tough because you just truly, you look at Whitney Cummings and I remember that time where she was popping. Like, everybody was like, she had all these pylistness and that. And I think she's still really talented. And I think she's still doing really dope things. But I think for me it's about also managing that. At some point, I'm going step back. I'm going to go away for a bit. Where I'm not everywhere. You know what I'm saying? But you see

my work. You see my shows. You know what I'm saying? You see the shy. You see 20s. You know, I know I'm going to pop up in season two of dear white people. But it's like little things like that that that make sense. It's like we got the Spielberg movie coming out in this month. I'm in that. Obviously I'm out promoting that and things like that. But once that movie comes out, like I'm going to step back a bit and go back into the lab and do some work. And I think that's really the trick, I think. It's knowing when to pull back and when to come out. I love Kevin Hart, but Kevin Hart's kind of everywhere.

What did you, what did you say no to that, you know, not that you'll regret, but like something that was like, ah, this is the dream, but I can't do it. I do. There's, I mean. Spirit of the black painter. What kind of? No. You not be strict. I won't say exactly what it is, because I'm cool with a person that ended up writing it.

But I did get offered to write a movie that ended up doing really well. And I was just like, hmm? You can't say the movie? No, I'm not going to say it. No, no, no, no. Well, you said no, no, no. Well, you said no, but I don't want the person that we ended up writing it to feel like, oh, I said no, I said no, so you go ahead. But here's what I'll say.

Hollywood's still petty? That's what you're telling me. Well, I mean, in terms of politics. I get it. Because she's my friend. But I feel like, to me, I was like, that's not my brand or like that doesn't speak to my brand. That's me writing for someone else's brand. And I don't know how that furthers what I'm trying to do.

So I think sometimes when you grab it these things Isn't that cool? I'm like, yeah, but who is that really helping? Because even if you look at Black Panther, yeah, Marvel's a huge brand. And Marvel may be bigger than Ryan Cougler, but Ryan Cougar made Marvel not his bitch, but they made it like,

I'm going to do my thing with this movie so much so that it will always be associated with me and his brand, you know, more so. People don't even think of it as a Marvel movie. Oh, yeah, that Ryan Cooleger joint. You know what I'm saying? And I think if you can do that, cool. But that particular thing,

especially where I was in my career, I would have just been a higher hand. I'm like, no, I'm cool. I want to make stuff that really feels like me. Lena, is it safe to say that nobody has tried to, like, dumb down or water down your brand, whether we're talking about your outside or your inside? Because it seems like you have a freedom, you feel a freedom, and you are allowed this freedom that somebody maybe 10 years ago may not have, I don't know, oh, wow.

Or even now, because that's my big beef. I still think more, I know a lot of gay black celebrities that are not gay publicly. Yo, your essence speech, when you was called. the niggas out? Like, listen, did you get some back? No, look, it was nothing but love. I got a lot of love from people and a lot of folks that I know who are gay but aren't out yet. By the way, I wasn't like trying to like throw shit, but a couple of people would text me and say, yo, I'm not hiding, sis, you know, I'm just out here. And I was like, no, but I was like, no, I was like, I don't think that you are.

It's kind of like both of us. Yeah, you know, it's like, I'm not, I don't, I wasn't trying to call anybody. What I was saying is, we, I believe, for particularly for gay black motherfuckers. It's our responsibility to be a light at the end of the tunnel because it's like if you look at how many black people there are in Hollywood and there's a nice number of us. And to think about how many out gay black people there are in Hollywood. It's about what?

Me? Wanda. Frank? And Titus. Titus. Lee. And you talk about women probably more than men because black men got a whole different. But also too, and here's my other thing too. And even in music, you know what I'm saying? A lot of times I'd be thinking about like some of these R&B singers who I know them Luther is straight. Luther is straight. Right.

Well, but I'm talking about some cats. But here's the interesting. You don't know sarcasm when you hear it. I miss that. And thank you for saying that lie here. Yeah. But here's a deal. There's some like, there's some R&B like black men singers who are faking the funk, shall we say,

singing to women when they know they don't want to be. And here's the deal. And I see them. I look at them on IG. I see the Acapella Tuesday. And I'm just sort of like, but it's so interested to me because you look at like, yeah, a lot of cats like saying like, I'm really saying, I do this. Like they're trying to like, I'm not doing no all the tunes and shit. You block them.

And they're dope. And they're dope. No, I follow these cats. I love singers. I think it's great. But some of them I'm like, dog, really? Come on. Come on.

You're not fooling no one. And a lot of them, they're like, I don't know why I'm not own yet. I don't know why I'm not on yet. And I'm just saying like if you fucking came out and told your truth, maybe motherfuckers will talk about you. Now I don't know shit like, like, oh, let me be gay for pay. But it's like to me what Frank did Here's the other thing too about Frank Goshen. He's just dope.

Okay? I really fuck with his music, really like blonde. I thought it was really dope. I think that because he's living his truth, it bleeds into the art. It believes into what he's doing. He can't not be just like this authentic motherfucker even though he's like this, you know, he's a weird guy.

He goes away for too long sometimes. But there's something about it that just speaks to everybody. Yeah, but see, like specialized. Can an arm, can they, are we ready for an gay R&B singer that just wants to sing? and I'm gay and I'm not singing about a man I'm just, are we, you think he ready? Yeah.

Wasn't Forrest Gump like a big hit? No, it is. All right, you remember what we talked about before we started the show. What? I just think with, and this deals with the Thanksgiving episode. I think that just conservative black Christianity is such a heavy burden on everyone. It's always like, you're always,

every step you make is like, what will my mama think? Look at gospel. I mean, come out, come out, wherever you are. I stopped caring about what my mama thought. That's what I really, even though like it took me, I just had to come out to her and I went through that whole situation and we went through our thing and we finally have like found a comfortable place to be.

But I realized in order to come out, you kind of can't give a fuck when anybody thinks because you got to prepare yourself because your mama may be like, okay, well, you do that and I'll be in heaven when you're not, you know. But it's like, but, but you have to come to a place where you don't care. You got to be like, this is my truth, this is who I am. How you react to

is how you react to it. And I'm going to walk in it regardless. Yes, I got to say it. So how did you convince us, or how did the idea of the Thanksgiving episode? Well, it really, it was born out of me, uh, because I didn't have any plans on telling that story. Because I also didn't think it was that fascinating. Is that a real verbatim?

Oh, it's like a full, like, I mean, Thinley Bell version. Wow. Even down to the brown sugar video. Yo. Oh. I called him. I was like, yo man, you're fucking be in history. Like, I didn't even know what the episode was.

about for the fact that you're watching that shit. Well, because Aziz and I was like, what's master of none, man? Oh, so you got educated. That's a typical. That's a typical nigginship. But no, but like, well, I was in London filming, so Aziz, gratefully came to me so we could write that episode. I had to write it in three

days. I had like three days off from filming, and Ziz's like, we'll get this done. So, but what we did was, and I don't know why, but we just started like, because we were trying to, obviously go back into like the 90s and us coming up, so we was like watching music videos. And one of them was like, new edition, can you stand in the rain? We watched DeAngelo, all this kind of stuff.

And that's really kind of how that bled into. Because we were like, what, he was like, what did you do all the time? And that's a real thing. When I was young, BET used to really be about fucking music videos. And we watched The Countdown every Friday night, that's and that. So I learned a lot about like just culture and swag and this through just music videos. So we really, Aziz and I both know we wanted to incorporate one. And that one just for both of us that really sang to us.

But it came out because, like, Alan just asked me, he's like, how did you come out? Because I was talking about dating and this and that. He asked me and I started telling him the story. And they were like, bitch, that's an episode. Like, that's interesting. And I was like, is it? Okay. And then they were like, we want you to help write it.

And I was like, I said no. I was like, dude, I got too much on my plate. I'm going to do the Spielberg movie. I got to put all my energy into that. I'm so shy hadn't been officially greenlit the series yet. I was still, we had a mini room. And I was just like, yo, Aziz, I cannot spread myself like any thinner than I'm already spread right now.

And he was like, well, if you don't help me write it, then I would feel weird writing about myself. And so I was like, all right, man. I was like, well, what is it going to be? He's like, I don't know. He's like, we'll just, we'll outline it, we'll talk about it, we'll email back and forth. And he was a man of course what we did. We just like email back and forth.

His brother, Anise actually came up with the idea of like centering it around Thanksgiving because I told him, I was like, I can't just do some straight line like 30 minutes. I got to go through the stages. But then Aziz really liked that. He's like, I like the idea of you showing you as a kid and growing up and this and that. So it just sort of really happened after our conversation we had while we were here in New York. And then I went off to London and we just like emailing back and forth and just kind of came together. Crazy.

And then when Angela Bass would have a lot of, yeah. How did you get Ansel? Fucking Melina's ass. Malina and Aziz. Because they were like, let's get Angela Bass. I was like, both of y'all are fucking crazy. Did she know what the show was? I don't think she knew what it was.

I think I was like, they reached out to her manager and he knew, her manager knew what the show was. I think her manager was like, this is like a hot show. Like you should kind of do it. And it worked out with her schedule. Like she, like, I think she had like a little bit of a break. And they came back like real fast. But I swear, because Malina always shoots for the Malina Masucas, the amazing Malina Masuccas, who directed the episode.

episode. But Malina always shoots for the stars because she's just like, why not? Who gives a fuck? Come on, because she'd be kicking it with fucking Solange and Beyonce all the time. And I was like, but I was just like, Malina, I was like, Angela don't know what the show is. She don't know who we. I'm like, this is fucking nuts. But Malina was like, just let me, just let me ask. And I was like, all right. But then they came back like, like, it's looking good. Like Angela's read it and nothing that. But then as he called me, he's like, we always call her Catherine Jackson, because we're obsessed with Jackson Five America. Right. He's like, Catherine's it.

But seriously, if people knew, like, me and Aziz sent each other gifts of the Jackson American Dream all the time. So random. Man. Hey, wait, what you? Oh, I don't want you. And I didn't even know. Nothing about it.

No. We're obsessed with it. I don't want you. Joe Jackson. I don't want you. Go to bed. What are you going to do? Beat them?

Give me some pistachio. Give me some pistachia. I want some pistachia. I want to peek it. Y'all is. Why do you know? Why do you know? I don't know.

I don't know. It ain't been on in Fijuan in like 10 years. Man. That. In the Temptations movie, I know. If you cut Jermaine out of this group, it'll kill him. Yo, other random casting question. Erica Mena?

Let's talk about it. I love a very charming girl, by the way. Super charming. That was awesome, Melina. Did she realize she was, was she in on the joke? I think she was, yeah. I mean, and here's the thing, we knew, whoever it was, we were like, we have to have the, and also it's loosely based on a real girl, I dated, don't fucking judge me.

Okay. But, but, but, um, and so we, we put that in, and Malina, was like, oh, I think we should get Erica Mena. And I'm not great about the loving hip-pasta. I don't really watch those shows. So I was like, what? And then, but Malina was like, no. But Malina had auditioned her.

And she told me, she told me, Lena, I think she'll be great. Because Malina was like, I think she said, we need somebody fun who can play. And look, you're coming into, it's nerve wreck. I mean, it's a Netflix show. Like, you got Aziz's ass. There's a lot going on. So we needed somebody that could really handle it. And Erica was so happy to be there.

And I remember her being like, all the haters going to be like, I'm here. We have the Netflix. Lena, we're here. And I'm going like, who are the haters? What's going on? So I was like, so Belina's like, Lena, you don't know nothing about it. I was like, what's up?

Like, she's pretty girl, nice, sweet girl. But Erica was like so happy. Like she's like, and she was all cuddled up. She's like, Lita, what do you? I was like, no, I got somebody. I got a girl. But she's very sweet girl. I was happy for her.

Seeing her on there. No, she did great. She was great. And then I kind of after the fact, I'm like, oh, she's like this girl like on the show. Like people like follow her. They know her. They know her.

I think she dated Bow Wow for a second. I was like, I need to like do my research. You know what I was. When it came on and watched all of y'all at the Thanksgiving table, all I could think about was I wonder if these people know what this is right now that were the fact that. And again, I was wondering, does Angela know like how masterful, master's of none of the other and does she, does Erica know? Or do you, like, I just felt that all of these great characters were at this table.

And only Aziz knew what he was cooking up, like bringing these people together that... I knew, because it was really me and Malina that really brought everybody together. You know, Aziz was kind of almost like, you know, he was sort of letting us, like, do our thing. Like, he would leave the set for time. Like, you know, he would go be in editing and Alan would go. And I had to convince him to get, like, can Whitley be that my aunt? Because they're like, well, she's not New York. and we got to pay. I was like, I don't give a fuck. I'm like, she's a black female comedian,

single mom. She can figure out to New York? Sure enough, I call Kim. I'm like, can you get here? She was like, yeah, she was like, I'll figure something out. Cut to her as books of judging gig on Top Chef Kids. So they flew her out and, you know, she did the show. Like, but me and me and Alina, like, we did that. Aziz, like, stood back and kind of let us do our thing, you know, but that is, that episode to me, every woman and that, it's only, he's the only man on the whole episode. A lot of people don't pick up on that right away, but it's like he's the only, guy, his character, little boys or whatever, but it's like, it's women of color.

All women of color. And that's what happens when you allow us to do our thing and get the fuck out the way. And does he understand, too, because for that episode, like, that episode is my way of introducing older black people to Masters of None, right? Like, I, my mother, I was like, Mommy, you're going to love Masters of None. Let me just show you this one

episode. And then, and she fell hard, and I've probably watched about six or seven times since, just, like, exposing people to the show. Oh, my, are you fucking I cried when, oh my God, scene when Lisa come back. Lisa, right? That's the final girlfriend. Oh, well, no, no. That's

Michelle. Michelle. Yeah, Michelle. Michelle. The final girlfriend, when they had that moment in the kitchen and like Angela talks to her and she's, and they just, and then y'all are all wearing these nice, like, pastel colors. You know what I mean? It was just... Tosu Department holding us down. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, and I never, I never,

I thought like, oh, isn't this cool, we got a really nice black episode of Master or another. Right. And then... Guys, can we stop for one second? Oh, shit. I am. Look. That's perfect. That's perfect. Because I really didn't think like it would take on that kind of life.

And that's the other thing to when you do a Netflix show, you don't have to wait like until it comes out and people to tweet about it. But people are immediate. But Aziz always knew because Aziz was like Lena, people watching this episode and they fucking love. He would text me all the time because they would do like low screenings and stuff. And he was like people fuck with Thanksgiving episode. And then when the Emmy happened, it was like icing on the cake. Because we had so much fun doing it. And now Malina, I wrote a feature that she's going to direct.

Like, Malina's like my sister for the rest of my life. Angela is like such a close, like, she's like family to me now. And now Kim, I'm doing this show. So it's like really spawn these different things that, you know, from that one episode of television. Okay. Am I allowed to ask? What? Will there be a season three?

You're allowed to ask. I don't know the answer, you know. You know, you know, look, I mean, it's tough, you know, with everything that's going on in the world. And look, I'm a big part of, you know, times up. and, you know, I'm very much, you know, an advocate of the Me Too campaign. I think people should be piping up. I know Aziz, you know, he was touched by it. And it was not easy for me during that time because it's like I can't just be, oh, rah, rah, I'm a part of this movement, fuck everything else.

Like, this is someone who I've known for a long time, you know, it's like, you know, he really saw something in me at a time. at a time where I didn't even think like I would have this kind of career. He really introduced people to me in a way. So it's like, you know, and he's just like my, he's my friend. You know, I can't just turn my bag. I'm not that bitch.

And so I really kind of got a real front row seat to what this means. And so for me, it was about people like, well, whose side are you on? I'm like, well, that's the thing. There aren't any sides. I feel like in this particular situation, Harvey Weinstein, there's a side.

Kevin Spacey, there's a side. Yeah, his situation is not. Way more great. You know, and look, you know, I had a long conversation with him. I read everything. And I'm just like, I think there's a lot of shades of gray here. I think a lot of people have been in those scenarios,

whether you've been the guy or the girl. And I think what I got from it was more about us as having to re-educate ourselves about what consent looks like, what it feels like, what it sounds like. And I think that just means it's not going to be fun for everybody. But I think that's something we just kind of have to do. We have to really make sure. And also to make sure we're being in tune with the person that we're kicking it with

and making sure we're paying attention. They say they're cool. Maybe ask again. I'm about to say, Lina, you better watch out, too. I don't watch y'all for shit. I'm engaged. Well, it was life before her, though. I'm just saying, like, no?

I'm good. I mean, like, you know, but no. But also, too, but I'm just, I'm a different kind of shit. I'm very, I'm hyper aware. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying that's because I'm a woman, but I just, I think in terms of, you know, that's just how I get down.

But I think if you're a comedian who's maybe not always great about paying super close attention. You know, I don't know if that's, but it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. So it's just really, she got really complicated. And that was the one story I saw that people were like, I don't really know where I fall.

Right, me too. So, you know, but I'm happy that it's opening up a dialogue. I'm happy that people are talking because that's, I think, the issue that motherfuckers don't talk to each other. Well, deal breaker for me is, if she kicks you out big because you can't eat cookies as good.

Is it? Is it? Amen. My fiancee don't allow, she's like, she don't even like me eating on a couch. she's like, no, that's what the kitchen counter is for and that's what we take the shoes off when you come in the house.

No outside clothes on the day. To our listeners out there, we kind of had a pre-conversation. Here we go, let's get it. To our listeners out there, we had a pre-conversation before the tape started rolling which I sort of complained bitterly that my new and last current, whatever. You better say last, I love it.

Come on, I put a ring on it. I put a ring on it. I'm in love with this woman. Best thing ever did. It's a race. But she won't. Let me eat in my bed, which is a great thing to enforce. I hate your bed.

You calling it your bed. Yo, man. Yo, yo, wait, everybody looks to Lina right now. I feel like you're all just in a bed. Wait, wait, everybody listening to Lina right now. Would you just say Lina? It's not your bed. It's our bed.

It's y'all's bed. I get there yet. Hold on. She got up in that bed too. You need to explain the whole, I've been on tour my whole life and I'm used to my bed and I'm just in my bed. Yeah. I'm saying for me, like, I'm a hotel guy.

I've been on tour for the last 20 years of my life. Hotel beds are eating in. So kind of, yeah, even before this bed I got, all my beds were from the W Hotel. Like, I love hotel life. Yeah, but I even ordered those special tables. It's a clean up at a hotel. They're coming in there right after you.

Yeah, but I'm not messy, man. It's like watching tennis. You're going to get some, some, trust me, I do it too. Because I'll smoke, put on, you know, all about Eve and want to be watching the bed. But my lady is the only, I can. only do that when she got it down. Did I just hear that? Yeah.

And I thought I said love you more, Lena. I'm sorry. I just, that was mad. All about Eve, get deep into it. Or was it a boss, one or the two? You know? Is it an indica or is it a teva? If it's at night, it's indica, yeah, yeah. We talk. Steve, try them in.

I'm like, you know what? He's like, now it's my night. Steve, he's about his show right now. Like you doing grass? Are we dabbing? What's happening? Everyone agrees here that you shouldn't eat in bed. It's a little dangerous, dog.

You too? Yeah. Do you smoke in bed? Smoke in bed? Do you smoke in bed? You would rather dive than not smooth. I don't want crumbs and shit in the bed. Well, also, you get to vape.

Yeah. I do vape in bed. I'm trying to get to vape. Vap is, I mean, you go back and forth. Yeah, but there's no crumbs. That doesn't count. There's no crumbs. That's what's so great about it.

White people want to eat in bed alone, man. We, too, all. for that shit. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that

excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man.

a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry. about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. Can I ask a randomly in a question? Since you went, Justin, working on something else, does that mean it's the rap for Dear White People season two? No, season two is coming. Season two is done. That's in the can. That'll be out in the summer.

Wait, now back to Eden's bed. I don't feel like we're done with this. Season three, I mean, I don't know. Justin may go do some movies, but Dear White People was never dead. Dear white people is always going to live forever. We always got reasons. We always got reasons to say dear white people. Always.

Even when we think we don't. It always comes back. Shalianrea. Hidden fences remind us of that. We were like, hidden fences. What? So, explain, before you wrap, we do want to go. When does the Spielberg movie come?

March 29th. Its title is Ready Player One. Ready Player One, which is based on a best-selling novel written by Ernie Klein, Stephen Spielberg. Here's a drink. We showed it to an audience for the first time at Southby. And I tried to get into that show. He was fiending.

I wish, like, somebody would have tried to, like, figure it out. I was like trying to get all my cousins. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Don't do that. It's already done. It's already done. She saw you on the plane boat's two chicken shit to say hello. What? Yeah. She was like some weird stalker shit.

No. I did. What had happened was. You should have told you, like, I'm, like, I'm like, the most realest motherfucker No, my cousin Ian told me you were cool as shit. It wasn't about that, Len. It's just that sometimes there are like five people in this world. They're like, I'm real fans of their work and their art.

And so sometimes it's hard for me to like approach. You know what I mean? Why you should always come to say what's up? You can say hi. But I'm where are we talking now? But you could have totally said what up. You know, I'll see you in a couple. I'll see you next week.

Oh, yeah. You would have been like, yo, I'm right on this. I'm on the co-host. I'm like, oh, no. True story. I saw you in the eatery before we board it. And then I saw you sitting down in first. This is, now it's getting weird.

This is getting weird. Oh, well, that's always awkward. It's like, you see me sitting in first class. First of all, that whole walk is awkward. Like, the walk has, we told. I know. Figure something out. It's like, I feel bad.

I feel like a lot of people up there feel bad because we're like, we want you to have the TV and be able to charge your phone as well. And I'm going to use your bathroom. Don't tell me not to use your bathroom because I'm coming. I'm coming. That's what like. First class should board last. So then you don't know who the fuck is up there.

First class should board last. No. I want to be on first so I can gloat at everyone. I know, it's awkward. All right. So you remember when Bone Thugs and Harmony did the MTV Awards with the horses? With the horses? That MTV Awards.

They did crossroads. Oh, the chariots and all that. So that night with the Michael Jackson kiss with Lisa Marie. Oh, shit. So I was on an airplane at JFK. And like, I had that moment with Bone Thugs in Harmony. where it was like, you peasant, you, and we, like, we went to the coach section.

We felt all bad about ourselves. Damn. Uncle Charles, all the motherfuckers were just, like, sitting in first class. It doesn't make you appreciate it, though. Don't it make you appreciate that moment where you can sit in first class. You're like, damn.

No, but it was just like, be hungry. See you in economy. We thought, like, we were peers and stuff, and, you know, we were. No, no, no. Like, the security guard was like, no, no, not not right now. Oh, dang.

So, bitter economy. I definitely don't have that. It was like that. Yeah, so always, we were sitting in the back like, watch one day we going to ride first class. We're going to look down everyone when they walk past us. So to this day, we always make sure we pre-board with the handicapped people to make sure that we're off. Yeah.

I ain't that bitter. I watch that happen. Well, Lena, I appreciate those sunglasses that you was wearing to make yourself feel like you wasn't really there, but we saw you. Oh, no, I just, I did sunglasses in first. I do sunglasses because, like, I might have been, like, a little sleepy, a little tired. I do sunglasses too. I just be, like, trying to, you know, I was going to plane,

going to sound out. Sunglasses. Shut up, man. I just be going to sleep. That's why I just, yeah. I just be, I don't be wanting to be too much light. Also, yeah, I don't appreciate people that have their, you know, when I was a kid. Had that thing open up.

Yeah, man, I was sitting in front of a kid. I was like, man, fuck this kid. Yeah. You just seen the sun before me. No. I mean to put the shade down. I put the blanket over my head. I'd just be like,

John the zone now. Oh, you're one of those people to put the blanket over the head. Like, leave me big. I don't know if I trust that. You know, on a plane. On a plane like that,

do a lot of white people recognize you? How does that work? I was thinking that too. I was like, do you get the? Yeah. I mean, it's always weird. I don't know. It's like people.

Well, yes, a lot of white people, for sure, watch Master of Nun. So, like, you know. So they, but it's weird. But sometimes you just see them. They look, they look. they acknowledge and they go, oh, yeah, so girl, and sometimes they'll say hi, sometimes they won't,

but it's all good. Sometimes they'll come up just ask for a picture. So more of this flight story. The other, what's my man's name that was on the flight with you from Hamilton? I know I should. Davy. Davy. Yeah.

So the guy that sat beside me on the flight was like, oh my God, did you see David just sitting in first class? I was like, did you see that Lena Waitha? I was like, did you see that Lenaway to sit in first class. He was like, oh my gosh, she's the first black women that went on. That I didn't speak to that. I know. I know.

I know. I saw Davy. Oh, my. hands on your knees hands on your knees I saw that even I said what's up to him I don't know like that but I was like what's that

You were talking about the ready player one premiere Yeah And I want to hear like your story Because I had a friend that was there And she told me about like the sound Yeah we blew the speakers We blew the speakers

It was like it's a very like big freaking movie It's like a blockbuster movie That's what it is And so Spielberg He fucking went in And it's like So the speakers blew

And the good news was everybody was so captivated that when the speakers the sound went out, motherfuckers like lost their shit. They're like, no, because it's a very critical point in the movie. And then we tried it again. The sound still wouldn't play. They're like, oh my God. And then the third time when they played it and the sound went through, like, everybody, like, there was a little

like standing ovation because they were ready to see how the movie ended. But they, it was just a phenomenal experience and to sit in the theater with those people and like as excited as they were and obviously Stephen came out and surprised everybody. But it was just a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal energy. Was that your first time watching it? That was my second time watching it. My second time watching it

with the honor. It felt like a first time because first time you watch it, you read the Warner Brothers lot. Like, there's like exacts and stuff. So it's like, okay. But seeing it with these people, like, it blew my mind. It was a Delorean out front. It was the shit. Well, yeah, because Ernie Clyndra. I was a Delorean. He pulled up in that motherfucker. And working with Steven Spielberg is like

Did you nerd out? Heaven. Heaven. Heaven. Did you nerd out? Over the DeLorean? Or just in general. No, over just working with Steven Spielberg. Well, here's the thing, you got to play it cool. You got to act like it's fine. Have you ever nerd? Because I imagine that you play cooler than thou

with any situation that you're in. And that gets you in the room's better than nerd and now with people. But have you ever just lost your shit over someone that you met like, oh my fucking god. You know, I kind of did it a little bit with Howie. When I like, you know, it's funny because I had met her a couple times, but like we were, well, it's weird

because she, at that point, she knew me and she was like, oh, Lena, this is my friend. I was like, what's up? It was Oscar night and we were at the Vanity Fair party. It was like the Oscars had happened as it was after party. And I just, I just have to tell her. I was like, your Oscar speech. like really made me feel like I could do anything.

And I was like, so for me to be a first on the Emmy stage, I just couldn't help but think of you and I wanted to be as eloquent in my speech as you were and yours. And that to me was like, it was, then I just started saying like, yo, man, I own losing Isaiah on DVD. I'm not sure you lose your movie, though. I remember watching Alex Haley's Queen.

D. That was so, she was so good in that. And I said, I still can't believe you play. and fiddle to Robin Givens and boomeret. He's like, I was like, I was like, I was like, oh, here we go. Like, we just started coming out. I was just like, bitch, you mean something to us. Like, you're an icon. She was like, really?

I was like, yes. Like, you're an icon. Like, she's no. No, I think sometimes she's like, am I? Like, what's up? Trust me. No, thank you. She doesn't know.

She don't, like, I don't know. What was it? I was like, yo, Hallie. No, Queen is a big deal. She don't even sure. Yeah, jungle fear. I just think like, I think. I should have brought your ass home last night.

I was like, yo, howling, you mean a lot to us. And I was like, you should always know that? She was like, should I receive that? She's like, thank you. But you could tell, like, she really was like, oh, okay, like, I appreciate that. But, like, she's still, like, she's dope. And she has, she's a really, had a really great career. Continues to have a really dope career.

But she's amazing. She's amazing. So I geeked out. I geeked out on her. I said the same thing to Cree summer. Just laugh at me. I would geek out over Cree too. And I've met her, like, we've been at, like, NWACCBM Awards together, whatever.

but if I had an opportunity, I was like, yo, Cree, y'all had that crush when you got with Ron. At the end, you like, the press. She said that was an odd storyline. We talked about that. She was like, that was odd? I thought it was dope. I didn't believe her and Ron, though.

I didn't. I did. I didn't believe she went straight into a lawyer and then it was. Yo, I want to talk to you about, but here's the realty. I think it actually made sense because it's kind of like, that's how it is a person that you kind of can't stand and get on your nerves. But also it's like they were very, different people when they were in college and they didn't get together until after they had both

graduated. I thought, although her and Shazah were lit. Her and Shazah, but also her and Shazah made, it was so made so much sense. It was like, of course.

I mean, they looked like brother and sister. So when her and Ron, I thought it was kind of hot. I didn't get about Ron because I just don't believe light skin on light skin love works. Oh, that's right. This is a great Fonte theory. Well,

I didn't like him and Kim. Him and Kim didn't work at all. I liked him and Kim because he loved her. You could tell that the writers were like, oh, wouldn't this be cool? And they do a detour. I think it was offensive.

I'm sorry. I think it was offensive. I'm sorry. I just make it. You know, Kim had lost all that episode when she revealed herself and she didn't make the Angel Mama episodes. Kim was fine. I like, I like big Kim.

Steve, have you ever watched an episode of a different world? No. No, it's too blackety black. It is really black. It's not as black as Amistad, but it's black. It's black. Wait, is it on iTunes? What?

A different world? I don't know. I think it's on Amazon. Yeah, it's on iTunes. You can buy episodes on Amazon. Okay, I'll do. I watch all my TV on Amazon. Classic, classic.

Speaking of Amazon, I watched the shot. I watched the first two episodes. Like, I watched, I think I watched first episodes over your house when we were LA. I love it. And then finally, when I knew you were coming, I was like, okay, let me get the rest of them down. Yeah, let me do my homework.

You know what I'm saying? Because I really did like the first two and I, but then just like happened. So I was like, but one thing I really like, It was one, and you have the part of me because I'm terrible with character names. I know the actors, but I know the characters. So one thing that really rang true to me, it was a scene where you showed the kid Alex, the real, that's his real name. Kevin. Yeah, it really was Alex Heber. We plays Kevin.

Yeah. His scene where he's trying to get with the girl, and he has a crush on the girl. And so he goes to his sister, and his sister's like, oh, you got to respect women, you got to do this, and don't just tell her eyes a pretty whatever. But then you showed another scene where he's riding. with Reg. Yeah. And Reg tells him something completely. That shit was so...

Ignority's girl, man, treat them shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, like, rang so true to me. Like, as a kid, like, as a boy, like, you know, you'll see... Your mom might tell you one thing. Right. But then you look at your uncle

that got all the holes. It's like, well, he didn't want with the holes. He's cheating him pretty bad. Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, and I think that's what we really try to do. It's just try to, like, be as honest and as authentic as we possibly can.

and just really show like black life and I feel like that's a part of it like dudes don't they learn about how to be with women from other dudes and we feel like Reg who was sort of like he's that dude he's a runner he out here you know working for people and he feel like what would he say

to a car full of three one of the one's a little brother and other boys and we feel like this is what he would say like man fuck these holes those kids are shining oh those kids are phenomenal and Papa's my dude Papa is a real Chicago boy

you know and just a lot of personality, a lot of swag. And we're grateful to them because that's what we get to have the levity. But also, you know, we deal with the real shit, you know, with the character of Jake, who is obviously sort of who regs his bigger brother where we see how the gangsters are born. Yeah, the cycle, yeah. A lot of people think like, oh, yeah, this little black boys are born with, like, guns in their hands. We're like, no, it's nurture, you know, not nature.

It's not nature, yeah. And I think that's sort of my, you know, my mission to show. And also, sometimes you can have, you can be a part of that environment and go the opposite way. Whenever people get all freaked out about Chicago, I'm like, I'm a product of Chicago. So it's Chan, so it's common. So it's Jennifer Hudson. You know, so it's like we, so it's Quincy Jones, you know what I mean? So it's like, easy.

You know, like we, that's also what that environment can produce as well. There was one, I'll just say a question. I can't remember, again, his name, Stephen, the, from 21 Jump Street. We always call him to 21st. I just called him. Who plays Q? Who plays Q? Yeah.

How did y'all get him? Because he's my favorite character. Oh, shit. He kills every fucking. fucking scene. I love him. Well, we kind of really wanted, like, those kind of guys used to be around my house. I live with my grandmother coming up.

So those kind of cats were always around my house. These old dudes who were, like, you know, who, you know, wear the fucking the silk shirts and the, the fedoras and whatever. I think they're too cool for school. And so I really kind of wanted to have that element of Chicago, like that kind of, like, OG, like, who used to run the streets.

Stephen Williams. Yeah. I always knew him with Pam's rich boyfriend from the episode of Martin. You know, he's like, the Skybox? Oh, damn, he was. The Skybox?

You too young. And the cop and the blues brothers. Oh, fair enough. Yeah, we all have different references. I love you like, white guys. White people watched 21 Jump Street. The captain. Yeah, 21 Jump.

Yeah, 21 Jump. Yeah. But, like, but I was like, we got to have that element of, like, what Chicago streets used to be. Like, there was a code. There was an honor. Because we kept hearing that from a lot of, um, we would just talk to, like, cats of Chicago,

maybe, who had been, you know, in the streets or whatever. And they were like, there used to be a code. And like now there isn't and that's a difference And so we kind of want to show that character And you'll see how now if you're caught up You know how he's connected to the story I'm not going to talk about it But and then the finale is

You liked him like the finale is going to really be dope That's all I'll say I was going to ask how in the age of The political climate we're in now Where people so quick to say What about Chicago? Right Like they're really concerned about Chicago.

I mean, how heavy does that weigh on your mind when you're, as far as how this show is presented to us? Because even for me, maybe the first five minutes when I started watching the pilot, part of me was like, okay, I'm waiting for the gratuitous violence that's just what we know, you know. And actually, what were your opinions as a Chicago filmmaker? What were your opinions on Shirek? Well, I mean, here's the thing It's like I feel like everybody has a right to Spike's been on the show before

So he knows we have beef with it But oh wow, okay Well look, I mean at the end of the day And I'm sure I'm not the first person Say this but I wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for Spike You know like I watch this shit and like you know It's like that's this We're all his sons and daughters

Whether we like it or not And my thing is he has a right To tell a story about Chicago The tough thing is like You're going to get a unique story From him because he's not from there Like if I told a story about New York, it may not feel 100% like New York because I ain't come up, you know, over here. So I think, and I think what he was trying to do was just bring attention to what was going on.

And also he did it through his lens and through his vibe and how he gets down. So I would never attack the movie. I just think for me, when I, again, mine's not a movie. It's a series. But this is Chicago through my lens. And I think both are valid. But people can also have a right to say, I don't fuck with Shyrak and I fuck with the Shy. That's their right.

Or some people may say, I only fuck with the shy. I like Shy Rack more. That's their prerogative. So I think ultimately we all have a right to make a story, to make a movie or a TV show about a particular place. I think it's just a matter of, you know, I want to just, my shit, I want to be grounded as fuck, real as fuck. That was my mission.

I was like, how can I make sure? And also, I think there's ways we can be better about that in season two. And that's my mission as well, to make it blacker, to make it more authentic, to make it more rooted in the city. because that's my goal is just to get a really accurate snapshot of the city not a super positive one

not a super violent one because we don't shy away from violence on the show like we we approach it but it's not super violent I didn't find the show to be super it's not it didn't feel exploitative no because I'm just like that's not all Chicago is you know my Chicago's also block parties

Chicago's also little kids you know not crossing certain blocks that was a big thing for me like my mom's like you can't go past that street like okay so I want to incorporate that into the show it's full of grandmothers You know, it's full of like, you know. I can't remember his name. Sunny.

You know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, and you got people, because this was my experience where people who were in the community who I wasn't related to feel very much like my family

because they saw me come up. They would like look out for me. They contribute to my college fund. Like all that kind of stuff. I think that's the thing I really want to get across by Chicago is that we really are very familiar. We're very much like a community.

If anybody ever been in Chicago, like it feels like a small town. And I think that's the thing that people don't get when they watch other shit. Where they were in, where Miss Ethel is talking to, I can't remember the other, the nurse. Yeah, Jada.

Edma's mom. Yeah, his mom. And she's like, get me my, my cigarettes. I knew what it was. I was like, and she, you know, she thought she was asking for cigarettes, but that was where she kept her money. Yeah. That was so real.

And that's based on my grandmother, you know what I'm saying? Old folk would not fuck with banks. Yeah. Straight up. No. And I think, and that's, to me, there's a hominess that I'm trying to bring to the show and to show people the city that they just haven't seen before it because it's like, I'm from there.

Like, I know those people and my mom still. lives there. You know, a lot of my family's still in Chicago. So I'm always going to have a connection to it in a way that just other filmmakers just won't. And that's cool. Quest, when are you going to exec produce the 215? Got him. Eat.

Y'all, look at him. Speechless. Welcome back to Jasmine. I have enough on my plate. I'm still trying to execute produce, get a piece of a chat with sugar. Are we all. So,

Well, you know, I, do you have anything else? I do not. She's just one about two on five. Oh, no, no, no. I'm good. Okay. Thank you for all you do. I was about to say that.

Yeah, thank you, Lena. Please don't go anywhere. I ain't going nowhere. I may back up. You may not see my favorite, but you always hear my work. I just want to hear your voice. As long as I can hear your voice, I'm good.

I'll just keep coming back on the podcast. That's true. That too. Keep doing it. Well, we thank you very much for coming on the show. Thank you, for having me. Amazing. And on behalf of a.

Sugar Steve, host of Chat with Sugar. Update Bill. Flash. It's lonely at the top. Fon Tickalov, proprietor of No News is Good News. And also,

it's Laia. And thank you, Lina, for coming on the show. This is Questlove. We will see you on the next girl round. And shout out to Boss Bill. Yeah, get better, Bossville. Go to Urge of Care. About the fucking run.

RIP, Craig Mack. RIP. Craig Macs. R.P. Craig Matt. All right. And the other guy. Good day. Okay.

Oh, Stephen Hawking. Yeah. Oh, Stephen Hawking. Damn. And Matt Dyke. Only on this podcast. With Craig Mac and that white dude who knew the sign. Damn.

From the Simpsons. Hey, man, how you can do that sign? Oh, my God. Wait, wait, time out. There's a tasteless joke. I was about to happen. Turn the fade back. Wait a minute.

State Bar. Your Stephen Hawker references from his episode of The Simpsons. Wow. I don't, I knew who he was before. You ain't got a movie? I knew what. It's so blackety black. I love the theory of everything now.

I already shut down my machine. That is awesome. That's amazing. Anyway, all right. Yeah, shout out to Craig Mack and Stephen Hawkin and Matt Dyke proprietor. Matt Dyke, oh man, delicious vinyl. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, so we will, this is the only podcast to close off on death.

I know, like, I P. I'm like, you get it too. It was so lucky. you were like shout out to Craig Mac. I was like, no, RIP. Yes, yes, RIP. I feel like Boss Bill should add gangster lien by DRS and posts. Yes.

And as we made out gangstores. All right, we'll see you on the next go round. I'll see you. West Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHartRadio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to you.

your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Cliverts show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist,

they take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.