The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Leon Sylvers III

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Legendary multi-instrumentalist, songwriter and producer Leon Sylvers III talks about the secrets of his craft, helping Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis get their start and producing acts like The Whispers, Shalomar, Dynasty and more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated

the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Without no doubt, this gentleman that, bringing to the table is responsible for some of the best music you've ever danced, ever listened to. Of course, his talented family, the Silver's family have been in our lives for so long. They're amazing harmonies. Of course, him branching out on his own to do production for, like, Whispers, Shalimar, Lakeside,

Evelyn Champon King, so many groups, so many groups. just his classic sound of boogie you know kind of posse disco we call it boogie he's one of the greatest and so so so happy that he took time out to come speak to us

this is Leon Silver's the 3rd this is from January 31st 2018 Louis classic here we go Supreme a roll I got nothing yeah no really I got nothing

yeah I'm so overwhelmed by Greatest I had nothing. Roll call on. Supremia. Suc, Suc, Sura, Sura. Yeah. Let's see how I sound. Yeah.

Now, do I sound better? Yeah. The second time around? Rolls. Superima. Subramo Role. The name is Fonte. Yeah.

Call me your friend. Yeah. Because it's not two. Yeah. Only one can win. Roll fun. I'm glad I changed money. I'm glad I changed.

Supreme. Roll call. The show to be on. Yeah. Let's put some tea on. Yeah. And talk to Mr. Silver. Roll call.

Bill's been struggling. Yeah. To write these rhymes. Yeah. Almost called a ghost writer. Yeah. On the hot line. Roll.

Supremal Role. And I ain't feeling bad. Yeah. Leon Silvers. Yeah. Got me thinking about D.C. cab. Roll call. Gentlemen, that was the greatest.

A contribution ever, ever, ever to, to... Wow. Okay. Come to his intro. Dude, I... I'm sweating over here. I'm sorry. I'm nervous.

You know, I know we're nervous about this episode? Because we didn't mock light. Normally, we mocked Laeer's intro. And we, you caught a break this time. And you came through with a decent... That's a good cut. You went wrong. Real deep for that one.

I did. I did. I did. Okay. Look, I'm just putting it out there. We're just going to go all over the place because the reason why I feel is that we commit to the show. Um, yes, you know, we're about the, whatever, the teaching of excellence and bringing people and exposing them to the audience, you know, to audience that might not know them, stuff

like that. But just sometimes you just want to nerd out on your favorite. And I, there's so much, there's not enough that I can say about the gentleman that we have with us right now. I can say that, you know, he is, I mean, he's such a genius in every area that he's ever done in crafting harmonies and his musicianship and his songwriting. I mean, he damn near invented a genre music. buggy. He killed disco. Good for you. He literally killed disco.

Of all the, like, he invented genres, and he inspired some of our greatest. I told Jimmy Jam that he was coming on our show, and even Jimmy Jam had to bow down because of all that he learned from this man. I'm about to start crying right now. Ladies and gentlemen, please, welcome to the show. Leon Silver's the Third. Yes. Yes. Thank you.

Yes. I'm pleasure to be here. Man, you don't know how happy we are right now. Like, we're just... Shout out to Dane Funk. Shout out the Dane Funk. Yes, thank you, Dane Funk. Big-off Dane Funk.

For making this happen. Man, we got to give you up here. Yeah. We have so many questions about your life. Like, I've never idolized someone so much that I really don't know that much about because you rarely did interviews and things like that matter. but let's just, should we rapid fire or do we just? We just, I want to go.

Let's go through the journey. Okay. Now, I'm going to say it. Let's start at the beginning. Y'all got to be proud of me. I haven't said that in a while, but I'm going to say it this time. It's okay. Well, let's say.

Okay. So, I believe your entire family is from Tennessee, correct? Please be wrong. Everybody except me for me. Foster Angie and Pat. Where were you born? I was born in South Bend, Indiana. Oh, snap.

So was I. Yeah. So was I. Wow. Yes. My father was going to college out there and my mother. And I was born on the campus and only stayed there three days after I was born. So I know nothing about South Bend, Indiana.

But I was born there. He went to Tennessee. Tennessee. He was there for three days. I was there for three years. Wait, you were born in South Bend? Yeah, yeah. Memorial Hospital.

Wow. That's amazing. That's crazy. Yeah, so just, I just want to know it all. Talk about the beginnings in Tennessee and how music entered into the household. Well, about Tennessee, I can't remember too much except Roy Rogers. So I was too. After about two years, we hit the train and came to L.A. I think I was two or three years old. And L.A. is where everything started.

Motown sound for me. Why did you guys move to Los Angeles? I think my father got a gig at, what is it, some kind of space company, something, he was doing some kind of work. I couldn't really. remember, but his work brought us out there. And everybody wasn't born yet. It was just myself.

Charmaine. Charmaine is the eldest sister? And you're the eldest brother? No. Olympia is the oldest of the family. Olympia, I'm sorry. And then myself, Charmaine and James, Jonathan. That was only four of us when we went to L.A. And it was started with me was the Motown sound. I was into James James Jameson on bass, period. And Benny Benjamin, the drums.

And that was my starting music. I was taking hangars acting like high hats. I took the drum, the little broom, the sweeping part, used that as a rim and snare. And the box spring I used as a kick drum. And that's how I started music right there. That's where most people would take the room and make that to a guitar. You thought to make that make the drum.

Yeah. Were there any adults that were musicians that were influential in your life at that point? No, I'm just Jameson and Benny Benjamin. I didn't know nobody yet. I was only about six or seven there, seven. What was it about that music that called? called you. The bass. I got a guitar when I was like, we did a, we just did four-part harmony because I was teaching everybody this Laura Scudders commercial back in the day. And my brother was three

years old, but he held four-part harmony. So we was doing this Laura Scudders commercial, and my father heard us and started teaching us some four-freshman-type harmony back in the day, that high, high lows and all that. And so we did it real easy, and he got a manager, and they put us on, we were called the Little Angels. Right. And they put us on Spike Jones, Arklink Letter Show, all these names from back in the day. And that's where my brother, he was three when we did our first TV show. And he held, he gave everybody our parts when we forgot them.

So he, as far as Harmony is concerned, How did you guys even know how to notate harmony? Because, well, one thing I think our audience should know is I feel like the one distinction that separated you guys from any of your contemporaries, Jackson's included stairs steps, whoever was young at that time, was you guys had the most unusual harmony structures ever. Was that from not knowing? Like who taught you those dissonant and chromatic harmonies that weren't average? I think, well, my father was into the four freshmen and the high lows and all that. So he saw us doing three-part harmony and one lead on this Lower Scudders commercial. And I gave them their parts.

But it was, you know, simple stuff like, you know. And he saw we can hold a note and not get off. So he started giving us harder songs, songs like it's a blue world and, well, I forgot to name those songs. But it was four and five part harmony, and we stayed on it and didn't get off. I don't know why. My mother could have been an opera singer. She was studying for a minute.

So I guess that's why we just felt we can do it and we just did it. You know, it wasn't no why or whatever. We just did it. Stayed on the notes. And I actually was the worst holding a note. Really? Yeah. James was the best.

And then it was Charmaine, then Olympia, then me. I was last. I always would forget my note, you know. But James had the ear for holding the notes. And he was the youngest. What year was this? This was, I was like, I was like seven. But I mean like in what year was it like?

Probably 69 or something like. I was born in 53. Okay. Around 59 or something like that or 60. So there wasn't even a template out at the time to, or besides maybe Frankie Limeon and the teenagers, which is more like 57, 50, but there were no kids groups or that sort of thing to even. No, just Frankie Lyman.

What's the name sound kind of like a kid? kid, Little Anthony back then. Oh, little Anthony, period. I listened to him for a minute, yeah. So were you guys instantly in pursuit of the next level, which is to find a record deal? Was it just like, we did this television

show and that's it? Well, back then we didn't have no leads. It was all harmony. So we would just stand there and sing. No personality, no charisma, nothing, just singing, holding the notes. And we were so young that I guess the crowd thought it was

amazing that we were singing that kind of stuff but we was just ready to get off the stage and go play kind of thing but I loved music I was the one teaching them and actually sometime making them saying but I got into the Motown thing and then from there we didn't get into seriously making moves to record companies till I was around I guess 13 or 14 or 15, something like that. Because that's when the Jackson's came out, that's when I got serious. And I started teaching Edmund, my brother,

because he had the most powerful voice. And he said, I can't sing. I said, well, just nothing, you won't do nothing unless you practice it. He had the tone. So I'd work with him every day and practice until after a year. year or so he was riffing and all that you know so all your brothers and sisters are literally coming out the wound one by one during this period yeah you're just waiting for them to get of age and like okay every part is this and everybody there was

nobody that came in my family that couldn't hold a harmony note they could do that before they could do a lead we had to practice our leads uh so as far as when they give them a part they'd hold it and then we sing to somebody else's part they would keep it and and never blend into the other person's part or anything like that. We all had that, I guess. But the leads we had to work on, and Edmund worked, him and Foster, but Edmund worked the hardest. And his tone reaped the benefits because I worked at it at home.

And then when we got with Freddie Parenth, he heard Edmund's voice right off the bat. But that was during the Capitol years. Exactly. when you were on pride. Yeah, I'm jumping. Okay. Go ahead. So what label was pride associated with MGM?

MGM. Okay. Okay. Yeah, a friend of Mike Kerb, which was Mike Veener. My Kerb. Mike Kerb was running MGM when we were signed. And he was only 24 years old. Wow.

Wait, so the Mike Curb congregation, that's one of my favorite break pieces of all time. Exactly. The come on down, do, do, do, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. He was cool. He was the one that really hit me with the commercial thing

because I was doing, I was really kind of into back then that social conscious type writing, you know, because the Black Panthers was out and all that stuff. So socially conscious music was kind of in, and I was into that from a third group, from this history teacher, Mr. Simon. he was the one that told me, well, Leon, your music has to be more commercial, you know. And I was on that tip like, well, what do you know?

You only do pop music, you know, because we knew how MGM was as far as Motown was. And he's like, you're right. But even if I do pop music, it has to be commercial. You're doing R&B. It's got to be commercial. And I didn't want to hear that. but I did and I started changing

after I had that meeting because he wanted to give he made up pride after that because he told us to do this song called yeah what it takes an old Barry Gordy song and he wanted us to do it and we did it and it you know it wasn't nothing

you know it didn't do nothing and this meeting with me I didn't know it at the time was to get inside whoever was the head leader of the group type of thing. And I was more like trying to tell him we know what we do and just let us do it

because I realized they put us on the shelf for the Osmans because they didn't want. That's right, Osmond's where your labeling meets. Yeah, but we didn't know that when we signed. Oh, okay. And they didn't tell, you know, we just, we didn't have no records out for a year. We didn't even go in the studio for a long time after the Osmans was out.

But, you know, I understand the marketing thing, you know. They didn't want no other competition out there. And we were a family group that could sing harmony and all that, so they signed us. Well, then I've got to ask, then if, if, because I know with one bad Apple, not at one point did MGM say, hmm, this sounds close like ABC? All right, Silvers, here you go. Like, this should be for you instead of the Osmans or? No, the Ottens was signed already. and they were specially targeted to be the off the other side,

a white group, family group, and a black family group. That was, I understand the marketing after, but we didn't know that was the case till like, you know, years later, and I didn't believe it even after people's telling me because I wasn't caring about that, you know, long as we can come out. That was my thing. So their whole thing was done,

and all of a sudden we heard them out and they was on MGM. Nothing was told or anything. And it just came out, you know, and I actually liked the record. I thought it was, you know, but Mike Kerb was cool because he made up pride and

well, he got his friend Michael Viener to run it because... Who? Incredible Bargo Band. Oh yeah. Yeah, and that was a funny story too. But he they were schoolmates Curb and Mike Viener

and he always wanted to get in the record business and Mike Curb gave him that shot and gave us, put us on another label because MGM was more pop than anything iron. They never had no R&B groups on MGM. So Pride was the label that he put us on. Got a, well, Keg Johnson

got a black promoter. And Mike Viner was the head of Pride And we hit with Fool's Paradise, our first record. Well, it was R&B hit, you know. It didn't get no pop play. But that was that. And when we started practicing, we went on the road and things were happening quick because we had the big naturals and people automatically,

oh, another Jackson's and we had the bigger naturals. Can you clarify? How? Were those your actual naturals? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I had to know it for his weeks or not because.

Like they were so perfect. Yeah. Like the silver's afro is for me the real standard of the afro, not the Jackson Five. Yeah. Well, we had a concept. I thought if you would, we would go to bed instead of with the natural flattening it up, we would brush our hair up and take rubber bands and have a unicorn going up and go to sleep like that. And we took the rubber bands off.

It would just lay out like that. Wow. So that was our concept. Natural secrets reveal. You think I ain't going to do that shit tonight? I only braided my hair and so it had that effect. I was like, damn, I could just unicorn my shit. Myush, you're fired.

Thank you. I love you, Myasha. I'm the only playing. Oh, man. So knowing or, you know, I don't know how big of a presence. the Jackson 5 were in you guys' life as far as like that's the goal or if it was some sort of eclipse it was big oh sorry going no well I'm asking like

was there a thing like well until we reach the status of the Jackson 5 like we haven't made it yet or that sort of thing at least with the the pride records it wasn't openly said because we were kind of controlling our, we were writing our songs, we were doing our own harmony. We didn't have a corporation

like guys that knew what they were doing, you know, too. So we learned everything. So it was like a great feeling each level of it. So we wasn't even thinking. We was just happy to be in it, really, and doing our own music. So those prior records,

was that you in the studio? Like just pretty much doing everything? How much was that you? How much was that Jerry Butler? Jerry Butler had three guys, well, two. Keg Johnson and Jerry Peters working with his company. And he sent them first to meet us. And he met us at Six Flags Magic Mountain doing a show.

And backstage after the show, he brought his records, I guess that he wanted, well, that he did want us to hear from Jerry Butler telling him to let him hear. this. And I had my bass ready in an amp, and we were all sitting in a line, well, in a circle, half circle. And we knew he was coming, so we was prepared to play our song. And he said, I heard you all right. Keg did. And we looked at each other and said, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's okay, let me hear something. So we started playing Fool's Paradise, the record, our first record. And I started off with the bass, and then Charmaine started singing and we all, you know. And Keg just walked over to the trash can and then, okay, that's one.

Let me hear another one and threw the records in the trash. What? Yeah. In front of us, you know we like that. We was teenagers. We was like, we looked at each other. Yeah. So that was great.

We clicked right off the back, you know, when he did that, you know. So, well, even though buying these records and seeing the production and stuff, I knew that you wrote the songs, but, yeah, I was starting to figure out, like, how much production control you had of these songs? No, I didn't, I was learning then. I didn't want to produce. I didn't even play on it, and I didn't want to. He asked me, did, Kegg was the producer, but it was supposed to be,

it was Keg and Jerry Peters that were the producers. Jerry Butler wasn't going to produce. but it was his company that was hired. And some things went down, but Keg was the producer, and he asked me, did I want to play on it? Because he liked everything he heard. And he was worried, he wasn't going to tell Jerry. Now, I didn't notice at the time,

but he wasn't going to tell Jerry until later. Oh, wow. Because Jerry was busy. He was still hot with his career. He was on tour and all that. that stuff. So we was actually in the studio cutting the stuff before Jerry even knew that we didn't do his record. But I didn't know this. I just heard it from a phone conversation with my mother, Mike Viener, and Keg. Because Keg was with Jerry and they were about to get rid of him.

because Jerry came in and came down, and I remember I had to go in the studio, and he was telling me, now this is what I wanted y'all to do. And he played a way worse bubblegum record than one bad apple. And I like that. This was horrible. It was bubble gum.

So I was like, you know, I was from the Knickson Garden and Watts. Oh, you're from real L.A. Yeah. I wasn't even trying to hear it. but I liked Jerry Butler so I said well yeah we're not doing that

that's all I said I didn't want to say nothing else because I liked him I just you know let me cut to the chase not play around we ain't doing it and he said oh why not yeah it's too bubble gum that's all I said and he said oh okay

you sure that's all he said I said yeah and he let it go. He just made sure everything went through his company. A keg and him was going to get fired, but I liked the way he handled himself with us when he threw the records in the trash,

so I stood up for him. I told him, oh, if you get rid of keg, we ain't doing nothing. I didn't know what I was, but I meant what I said. I was only about, what, 18, no, I was 17. or something in. But I was the one that everybody was listening to

and they liked keg and we were doing our own things. So I just told Mike Veener, hey, if you get rid of keg, we ain't doing nothing. We'll go somewhere else. Before y'all got into the studio, how were you writing your songs like Fool's Paradise? Were you writing them on bass at home? Just bass.

Oh, wow. I would use the bass, excuse me, as a harmonic to the melody that I would sing. Always. I wouldn't do it as a, you know, a lot of people stay on E for the funk type thing. I would use it as a keyboard. I would always play the bass or harmonic to my melody. And then the chords would, you could hear different ones, you know,

as you listen to the melody and the bass. So are a majority of the songs that you write, do you write it on bass first before you never on piano, never on? Okay. Well, now I do because, you know, you got a studio in your hand now. Right. You know, you can do anything, really. But back then, if I did a melody, I immediately went to the bass and did the harmonic bass line,

because that was like my keyboard. So for those first four, three or four initial Silver's albums, that didn't catch on the way that showed. case caught on once you guys went to Capitol. But was it at all shocking to you that those records would be discovered in the new light in the era of rare groove culture and hip-hop sampling? Like, because even though in your mind, you might think like, oh, well, okay, those first few records weren't hitting, like, you know, our capital years.

But for a lot of us... Yeah, that's the Holy Grail shit. Oh, my God. I mean, the first album alone with, with, wish I could talk to you, I'll never be a shame. Yeah, yeah. There's least, like, in my eyes, like, that first silver records has at least six or seven gems on it that we see in the light of sampling and how it's. Wow.

So was it at all shocking to you that like some 35 years later, 40 years later that suddenly, like, even in my DJ said, like, I'll play only one can win. Wow. So, like, is it shocking at all? Well, actually, I felt great. I mean, it was like an honor for, and then I started thinking, how does that happen, you know? And then the only thing I could think of is, wow, it was young people that picked that up. And I was young at the time when I wrote it.

So it's like 20 years later, that same spirit. And, you know, musical DNA, if you will, you know, only the young can hear that. Because I was like, wow, that must be it. Same thing with misdemeanor. All those songs that were sampled, I wrote when I was younger than 18. I forgot about misdemeanor. Right, no, that's a whole 20-minute conversation just on that song. Yes.

Well, we'll start it. Man. With, yeah, with misdemeanor, like, how did you come with that? Uh, wow. I didn't, I, the bass came first. I was just, I was stomping my foot and I was just hitting, mm-mm, no, I was just doing the first one first. Oh, oh.

And then I started repeating those two over and over. And I would hit my foot, kind of. of hard on the ground like a kick. And I had one of them old, it was, I think it was a Sanyo cassette player. They only made one. It had one big giant speaker. It was a mono radio cassette player. Man, it had the perfect compression for that mic. Because I recorded that bass line stomping my feet with that cassette. Man, it was the best sound ever. I did it. I did. everything. I went and bought two of those. iPhone. Yeah, that's what the, that's what the iPhone sounds like now and sort of. I track a lot of my drums. I put the iPhone like on the floor like 13 feet away

from me and it's the same perfect sound. Man, I just loved that. I kept that cassette till it evaporated, you know. It just had that the misdemeanor vibe on it and I just recorded that and then said the hook. I don't remember if I had the words already. I probably didn't. I was just, uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-huh. And I knew, because I listened to that melody, lower octave with the bass in the same register,

and it's wrong. It's the most horrible melody with the baseline because it's one of them notes that if you do an octave high, you can get away with it. It sounds cool, almost funky. But if you do it in the same register, Like an octave lower, the worst thing to your ear. You couldn't, I hated it when I heard it like that.

But I knew what I had when I actually did the melody with the baseline. It sounded great. I just knew I had something that people would like. I don't know why. It just had a feeling vibe. And how old was Foster when he cut that? He was around, I think, 10 or 11. Exactly.

10 years old, the funkies shit out. Were you, because of the pristine level of musicianship that a lot of the Pride era records were under, were you guys always using the same musicians in the studio? Did you have relationship with these musicians or was just like, oh, who's here today? We met them because we wanted to be at every session. So it was mainly Chuck Rainey on.

bass or what? Oh man. What? Wilton Felder. Oh, those two were the bass players. So those guys were just moonlining?

Like. No, they were the top. No, no, I know that. Oh, yeah.

Well, I'm just saying like, oh, my bad. Like, yeah, that's, yeah. Well, Keg and Jerry Peters, they were real good producers back then.

They did, uh, graze, what's that song, that Friends of Distation. Friends of Distation. Yeah, Gray's in the grass. Yeah,

they did that. And, You got me going in circles. And so Keg Johnson and Jerry Peters were formidable producers themselves. And Jerry Peters was great keyboardists and arranger. So they knew all the top musicians. And I'd go to every session. David T. was main guitar.

Felder. They'd switch up on keyboard guys because there was a lot of them. But it was always kind of jazz-oriented guys. Is Jerry still alive? Yes. He is. Wait, it just hit me. Was it one of your brothers or three?

Somehow you guys were actually involved in the Jackson Five cartoon? Edmund. He was Marlon's voice. Okay. He was the voice of Marlon. Yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You mentioned something. Well, a lot of us are not California residents, but I have family out here.

And you said Nickerson Gardens, which instantly struck fear in my heart. And I was like, okay. Yeah. Hands up. Yeah, well, a lot of the, we're all in the same game video was shot there. Oh, okay. How did. Yeah.

Yeah. How did. Knowing what I know about, you know, L.A. gang culture and that stuff, especially that being the most notorious. housing projects in LA, how did the 11 of you escape that unscaped? Was it just like leave the silvers alone, like they're going to make it one day? Well, no, we, you know, you had to kind of get busy.

But it's like, okay, we're going to do Soul Train one day and then come back and you've got to fight your way inside your crib. No, actually, we were singing then, we were learning and building our, our voices then. And I was going to Verben Day High School. It was a Catholic school in the middle of Watts. And it was, the Knickson Garden was around it, actually. And I went there to play basketball because I got a little scholarship there.

And we entered a talent show from Verbum Day. And actually, before the Brothers Johnson, name was Brothers Johnson, they were in that talent show too. Wow. And they won't the school with them? No, they didn't even go to the school, but you could, if you had somebody that did, you could be in that talent show. And we didn't have no band.

We were just doing acapella. So we put about seven or eight chairs and put one leg on the chair and did it. And song acapella, you know. So we got. one second place, but there was a guy named Wiley Brooks there. And he came up to us and said, I have a friend at MGM, you know. That reminds me. Who arranged your version of yesterday?

That all-acapela version? Who did that? I think, I think, did we do it ourselves? You had to. I think we did. I can't remember anybody else. Oh, no, there wasn't a round. Ranger that helped us when we were doing our show for Las Vegas.

George something. He helped us out, but then we changed it. So you guys would still do the Acapella Beatles yesterday, just the way that? Yeah, we did our show at the Rolls a couple of months ago, and we kept that in the show. We put that back in the show. That is like, yeah, a lot of people. That's the most jaw-dropping. Were you professionally taught eventually how to notate music, or was it just like?

All about ear. I don't know how to read it all. I'm going to learn, though. Hey, me too. You and you and I can go to school again. So even on the bass, that was just all self-taught, you taught yourself how to play? Oh, yeah. I was into Jameson.

That was the teacher right there. Wow. For me. Can we go to the Larkin-Arnold? years to capital. I'm trying to ease my way through. So how did the MGM situation, well, not implode,

but how did you guys eventually get the attention of capital records? I don't really remember too much except that... Who's managing the group? When we were on Pride, it was a manager called Nordy Stein.

He would always try to chime in, and then when we didn't react fast, he would say, it's just a thought, Leon. So we knew Nordy Stein like that. But he was cool. He got gigs, and I liked him, really. How were you guys able to keep the discipline of the group?

I mean, because, again, it's nine of you, and you are going to uncharted territory of stardom and you're in Hollywood and, you know, obviously, I mean, I don't know if you're the father figure of the group, but I would assume that as the eldest brother, you had to keep. Oh, yeah, it was, you know. It was, I didn't believe in nothing halfway.

And I was a good disciplinary. And, I mean, Foster, he was the only one that, really showed, because he was into football, like I was in the basketball, so he didn't want to practice at all. And he would cry and try to get out of it, you know, that kind of stuff. But he eventually came through,

but I would do like, hey, I ain't getting on stage, getting booed ever. So y'all, let's go. Practice. And we had the Jackson's to look up to as far as steps, professionalism. But they were worked through professionalisms, professional people. I got to ask you a question.

Okay. Because, I mean, I haven't seen you guys on Soul Train billions of times. And, you know, all your steps are immaculate and all those things. Oh, thanks. Did you guys ever work with Charlie Atkins? Oh, yeah. Wow. So that was Charlie Atkins.

That move on boogie fever, that first move. That's what I was going to ask. The left and right. That was him. We usually would change certain steps because some of them guys would get a little too feminine. And, you know, we was from the Knicks and Gone. So we'd be like, okay, don't worry about that.

We changed that. Are you all doing pirouettes and everything? Yeah, well, sometimes it was, you know, it's just, you know. Too dainty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we didn't, we knew which one to edit out and to put in. But Charlie's step, I said, oh, no, that ain't going nowhere. You got to keep that, you know, just don't fall

because it'd be a domino theory, y'all. Because it's so amazing to see the nine of y'all do it. Okay, here's the thing. As the soul-training addict that I am, the first minute of the show to me is the most important part of the show because it's when Sid McCoy's going to let you know who's on the show with guest stars. And the thing is, when they show the act that's on,

you know, it's usually just a one-and-a-half-second or two-second action shot. And as a kid, not knowing who the silvers wore, and it was like, well, guest stars, the silvers. And all of a sudden, you see the move? You just see nine motherfuckers, like, move and left and right in unison? I just never, that was the most magical thing. And the thing was, it's like, before the age of the VCR and that stuff, I mean, I had to suffer for like 20 years, just waiting to see it again.

Imagineing that thing and begging people like, do you know, Don Crennoons? Can't just get the episode of the server? And finally, like, finding that episode in Japan, like, some 25 years later, man. Wow. I went to ball like a baby. But, yeah, like, the steps were so immaculate. And, but again, it's like how, it's like one false move and it's over. It's all downhill, yeah.

Like, I'm sure, like, one person went to the left one foot. Oh, damn. Like, whoa. Yeah, but we staggered it because we learned, okay, no, no straight lines. So they'd stagger them like being, if the first one, second one's a little back, third one's up, back, that kind of thing. What would y'all rehearse at at this time, at this point in your career? We had a garage that we turned into a little studio because I had a four-track studio back then.

It was kind of big, but it was four-track. So we rehearsed their steps and our songs, you know, and the garage. Yeah. Describe working with Freddie Perrin. Did he produce the first Capitol record? Yes. That's where I learned production. Why not you? I learned, well, it's, I mean, he was great. I learned a lot from him. But he did kind of take one of our songs.

But I mean, it was like, it's like we got through it and we were still cool after because it was a song called Stealing from the Cookie Jar. Wow. I was the title of it, and the bass line was, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I went jazz on it on that third part. Freddie, after he played the song, and we sung, it was going off, and he said, play that back.

And that part, we remember him playing it back because we thought, oh, Freddie likes he's going to choose this one type thing. Then a couple of weeks later, he called us up. And Hotline, he played Hotline for us. And Jonathan... And it... Well, the bass line was boom, boom, boom, do, do do do do. And he went back to it.

But Jonathan and Ricky, my brothers, they were like, hey. And with my man who wrote it with Freddy. great writer. He said, he did like this. They instantly knew they were busted. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like he did. That was, you know.

But, I mean, we got past it because I was thinking, okay, if we, the record ain't out yet, y'all. Kenneth Lewis. Kenny St. Louis. Yeah. Yeah. Great writer. I thought it was kind of funny because I was happy

Because wow, I did something that dude liked. But it was like we were minors. Well, I wasn't, but Jonathan and them still were. And they were the one more active on doing something about it. And I said, well, you know what? Let's just leave it alone because you can't copyright a baseline. I mean, either it's arrangement or because I found out. you know and then the record ain't made nothing yet so if we stopped the process freddie pan and

him going back off then capital records may drop us let's go on and let freddie do his thing it's not like he took our song it's just the baseline he got an idea from because it's not exactly the same so i convinced him to say oh okay you know because it could have been a bad situation because we I was about 16 or 17 then, and Freddie was already, uh-oh, you know, but he didn't steal nothing, really. It was just an idea that he took because my song was totally different, melody-wise. So, but we know how that goes now. Right.

Food for thought, you know what I'm saying? But I let it go, and we had a great rapport with Freddie, and I learned a lot from him because he would work on one line at every point of the song. And one time he was working so hard on one record on Hotline, and I just thought he was crazy. I was just, what the, what is he thinking? So at the end, I said, why did you go over that one so much?

And he said, well, you know how you hear a record sometimes, and it, every part you start liking better and better. Sometimes it happens like magic spontaneity And then other times you set up your chorus better You set up your ad lib better And it's like people listen and don't know Why they like the song better And you get more people

And the more you hear it the more you like that part I still thought he was crazy I said oh okay And then it got me performing it Oh When you start performing you There's certain things you know already So it's like second nature

But in a certain part of a song you like better. And I thought, oh, I like this part. And then it hit me. That's the... So I was like, okay, I got to listen to this guy,

you know. Can you tell the day tripper story? Oh, yeah. With bokey figure? Yeah. That, I mean, that was kind of a hard part of my life. I thought I had messed up

because this reporter for the Times, Hunt is his name. He was, he was, he cut up my words and acted like I was downing Freddie Parent because I said, I had told him, well, I don't like the assembly line production attitude, but I was talking about other producers. And then I said, but Freddie Perrin, he listens to my, he left that shit out and put Leon's tired of the assembly line production attitude. And then he put in there, Freddie Perrin's name after talking about something. else. Then he said, I quote and said, well,

boogie fever's cool, but that's for kids. I don't like boogie fever. Like, in passing, laughing, like, but, but he was a hit and it did good for us. He left that out and put Leon right after the assembly line production attitude, and I was... You sounded like a hater.

Oh, man. Was that me? He said I refresh you at the door? Man. Sorry, my goodness. Yeah, but also, was that the first time that, was that the first time you got to meet James Jamerson? That's him playing the baseline, the Boogie Fever, correct? No.

That's not James Jamerson? No, it was either Wildenfeld or Chuck Rainey. Oh, okay. Wait. That's Freddie Pairn. I could have sworn that. No. I never met him.

I was at every session. I think, was I at Boogie Feefe? Yeah, I was there. No, it wasn't James Jameson. Wow. Okay. That's on his discography, whatever, the shit I played on the website. I may not have been at Boogie Fever session. I was at the vocal thing, so it could have been, could have been. I was going to say that.

I may not have been there on that one. What's on James Jammer's page that? Damn, I thought it was a moment like, hey, I've always left your bass player. Have you ever got to meet him? I didn't really meet him. And I was mad when I, you know, because I always wanted to. I'd even called a couple of sessions that a person thought that he was playing on because he had came out to L.A.

Excuse me, by the time I got there, the session was over. And, you know, I was trying to just go bump into him and just say, because I never told him face to face, he's the reason I started bass. I mean, I got a guitar. We was at doing a show when we was the Little Angels at that, it was called the Moulin Rouge, I think back then. I don't know. It was that building that Nickelodeon was in for a while. On sunset, they had a Christmas party, and it was us and Dennis de Minnis, the original.

The original? Yeah. And we were backstage throwing a football, and then they called us on stage and gave us a present at the end. I got a guitar. And I took the two high strings off because I was so into Motown and I used it as a bass. That's how much I was a bass player. I wanted to be a bass player, period. Wow.

So was it New Horizons that you guys like decided to take control of the production and like where does Leon Silver's finally step in and say, I'm not a tripper story? Oh. My bet. Oh, yeah. I forgot I got off of it. That was when they were telling me about boogie fever, and I said in passing, I said, well, that's, that's, I think they got that from the Beatles anyway, because that's a day tripper.

So you can do a little bit and cut it off, because I think back then the copyright was in bars, how much you did the exact same thing within a certain amount of bars. Right. And if you change it before that bar hit, you're good. It's yours. It's straight. Yeah.

So that's after the stealing from the cookie jar concept, we thought, you know, boogey, well, no, that was after. So, well, we, I just assumed that they peeped it because I used to peep things, but I would never be that blatant with it. I would just listen to a vibe and do my own, you know, of a song. because there was a lot of Motown ones that I loved. And, you know, I would do my version, but not blatantly copy the bass or the chords. Or I didn't want to do that because I like my own ideas.

Was Capitol or ATV music like, hey, wait a minute or? What? Like, did they notice at all? No, because he changed it before the bar. Oh, before the, okay, I see. He did do. Do, do, do, do, do, do. That was it.

That's totally different. Okay. In your recording sessions, what was your approach or your science to tracking the vocals and tracking the harmonies? Would you cut everybody on one mic and y'all sang around it or did you track them individually? Well, back then we did sometimes the girls on one mic and then the guys on one mic, but it was all at the same time. Okay.

Everybody sang together. I think. I don't remember us separating back then. Like, later on. you know when I was producing then I did that stacking thing different but back then we were they just would tell us okay girls Charmaine back or Olin back and we all they sung on one mic and then we they would separate us with lows and mid and highs Freddie I mean yeah Freddie Parenth and Keg so for the New Horizons record and

And that meant a lot to me because I was given that A track when I was like six. So I studied it profusely. But I know that it didn't reach the level of the something special album and showcase. And knowing that you guys left Capitol after then, is it implied that, okay, well, since it was diminished returns or lower sales for this one that you guys are just off the later? or was it because Lark and Arnold left to go to Columbia? I think probably, well usually when the ANR guy leaves back then a lot of people who the new A&R want to bring their own in. So, and you can only have so many artists at the, so if he don't like the group,

regime change. Everything, you know, stops right there. And our last, it makes it easier for him because our last green sheet didn't show. too much. So, and that's, you know, I'm assuming that that's what it was. And that was capital. I feel, they made a mistake, though, but that was in learning because we cut this song called, what's it?

What's it called? Pardon? At the concert or something. Oh, don't stop get off? Yeah. I got questions about that. We cut that way before any. a, ooh, oh, ooh, who, record came out.

I know. Y'all were the original disco callers. It sat on Capitol. I even called the Capitol, everybody from all the secretaries to come in after they were old, you know, they were done with their work and said, we went down

to each office and said, come on up. We need a crowd, and everybody came. And we had them doing, ooh, ooh, ooh, then we had them do, don't stop. Get off. We had that whole crowd thing. And. So, you recorded that way before 1978?

That was the first one. That was the first... That was on the Disco Fever album. No, but I'm saying when we heard... Like, we came from Japan and went to straight... I wanted to get home because we got tickets for that Brothers Johnson

Brick and George Duke concert. Oh, man. At the forum. So we wanted to make that. And we got back in town and I just heard everybody going, ooh, oh. It was the crowd doing it. Right.

And I said, what is that? What? And they said, whoa, that's what they do now when they like something. Wow. So I said, oh, if the crowd likes something already, let's put that on record. And, you know, so that's what I did. But, and I told Larkin, this is what the people are doing. Right.

So we guarantee certain amount of sales when the public likes something that they then created and they hear it back on them, it's a done deal. nobody listened that thing sat for about two years about four or five hits with and it came out and ours was the last and it still went number one R&B you know so imagine if it came out in time exactly it could have been bigger so even though you weren't because I know by this time you had formed with or at least took a day job with Dick Griffey but you were still Were you actively producing your family's albums while still? No.

Because you weren't a member, you weren't a full member of these Casablanca records. No, no, no. I was out the group then. So how does that work? Because, you know, you guys started off as a nine and then like, then you were seven. And it's like, how do band members just leave and like, I can't take it anymore and that sort of thing? No, I was kicked out of the group. That's how they leave.

Wow. Wait, what? Yeah, it was like, you know. Did they blame you for New Horizons? No. No, I don't, it wasn't that. It's just, I think everybody was growing there. They wanted to do a step.

Everybody wanted to do their own, you know. Well, because I was like, I took the approach as, as leader when we was, okay, what everybody got. I always, and I took that into production. I gave everybody a chance to. let me see what you got. Do it. Let's do. Whether it's some melody or ad lib, whatever. I just prepare myself to come with it

if they ain't got nothing that's worth anything. And you have to use tact because I feel producers have to be psychologists, babysitters at some point. Quincy Jones said the exact same thing last night. He said those exact same words about producers. It's babysitting psychology, is counselor, it's everything.

So by this point, who do you of your siblings like who's who's are you in conflict with is it like uh you know angela you're singing the wrong note you sing too flat well there wasn't no one person other than you know when people get tired and they don't even know why they just want something different because i don't it didn't matter what word i said even when it's okay let's see what and then i'd they come on with something And then if there's silence, you know, someone else comes up with an idea, you know. So I would always do, what about?

And then I'd already have something prepared. And they were, ooh, that's nice. All they took it was two or three of them, you know. So, and it was a lot of us. So I based everything off that. And then if something's not happening, I didn't even have to say, I don't like that to steer the crowd. They would say it. Or they would say, well, I don't know about that.

and then you just keep coming with it, which is the way it should be anyway, the best idea coming forward. But after a while, they were growing into what I already was. I was past minor, and I was developing my own thing, and everybody wanted to do their thing, I guess,

because, and then when I had that meeting with Al Ross, he was, well, he did, we can say it like this. He had a contract on us for half, and it was nine people plus my mother. Whoa. And that's true. So that's why I said, what I said. But I had a meeting to try to, and I told everybody, look, you guys are minors.

He's not going to want a chance or show that contract to nobody. So all we have to do is, and I told mom, just be cool, because I was already 18 then. You know, so, you know, I knew, you know, we'll just kick Leon out the group and we're straight, you know. But I was telling them how we, and we had a meeting, and he got, got up. Everything was working until he got up out of the seat and said, Leon, I don't know what you think you're doing or who you think you're talking to, and that kind of thing. And I was like, I forgot to tell moms, look, if he gets up and walks and I get up, don't worry.

I'm not going to hit him. I'm going to wait for him to hit me. Then it's really on. So I forgot to do that with her. So me from Nickerson Gunn, I ain't going to let no man stand over me while I'm sitting. So when he got up and started walking around the table, I got up and was smiling.

I thought that was enough. I said, so what you're getting up for, Al? And then I stood up and walked to meet him. And when he stopped and sat on the desk, that's when mom said, Nope, that's it. Stop. Let's end it. And he knew what was up then. Right.

Oh, there's the week. Okay, cool. So from then on out, I was the bad guy. It didn't, mom was scared to, and that's moms. I couldn't get mad at her because I wasn't, you know, but I knew we had that meeting. And after that happened, he was, I knew he was in her ear. And that's when I, after I was out the group, I went hooked up with Dick Griffey. Okay, before we get to the solar years, because I know you're bursting.

Man, I have one more question. What were your feelings on, okay, because they did an album with, I mean, on paper, it looks like a dream. Because I think Harold Faltermeyer and Georgio Moroder produced. they produced the disco fever album that was the Casablanca, you know right? Yeah. They did a song on Dance Fever one. I think it was called Uchikuchi Dancing or something like that.

What were your feelings? I called the Aftermath album because you were totally not involved in that album. What were your feelings on it? Well, I blamed Al Ross. I mean, I laughed at it because I knew Giorgio Moroda had his boys do it. He didn't do none of that.

So I said, I didn't know and I said, I'm willing to bet that his boys did that, not Giorgio, because nothing in it sounds like a Giorgio Moroda hit. Production. It was, they didn't have the great synthesizer lines. Exactly. It was just bull crap.

And I said, that's Al Ross, because he has no vision. He just, oh, we used to. George Jones Marrota's name, man, we're done. You know, he's one of them. That was always my, because even, like, even though I knew of that album, I didn't get it in time, but once, you know, in my adult years, and I got it.

And so, oh, George and Marrador, Harold Foster, oh, this is going to be a synthesizer classic album. And then nothing. It wasn't even close to nothing. I was like, well, because I was the, you know, he's a big-time producer. And some of the records with Donna Summer, I was like, dang, okay? Hot stuff and that's cool.

We can get some of that on, you know. But when I heard it, I said, okay, this is manager. Didn't have no vision. Dude, if you're paying top dollar, you can say, nope, not this one. Give me another one. You know, something or Georgia, Georgia got to do one at least or two. Getting his ass in there, you know. And that wasn't happening.

It wasn't happening. Now, let's go to still. first of all we all want to know like why dick griffy what kind of businessman was dick griffy well he was a cool businessman for his thing you know he knew how to uh he was he was he was he had a ear and he was a cool business man and at that time i wanted to produce period so i was kind of like would would work with anybody that did that hired me to to do my thing. I played some stuff that we cut. And I had cassettes of it to let him hear.

And when I met with him, he wanted, he loved what he heard so much that he said, I got a group called Shalimar. It's with the Soul Train gang singer. And he put with Jody and Jeffrey. And I knew who they were from seeing him on Soul Train. And he said, they got a voice. and I'm coming, I need some songs to put around the single that they had, you know. And it was still kind of just coming off the charts.

So I said, cool. So I went in and cut, take that to the bank. With Kevin Spencer, he used to play for the silvers. He was playing bass for the silvers. And I said, oh, and the silvers weren't performing then. They had ticked the hiatus. And it was, so I said, Kev, come on, let's cut some stuff. Because he was a bass player, keyboard player, and a singer.

Oh, man. And a writer. So I said, okay, let me work with Kev on this, you know. And we went and cut that. And I had an idea with the. The bells and the. Yeah, the Cal Bell and the Timbali type thing. I wanted to put that beat on another record, you know, so.

Well, the first record. Yeah, that was. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

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And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield

and in this new season of The Girlfriends Oh my God, this is the same man A group of women discover They've all dated the same prolific con artist I felt like I got hit by a truck I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care So they take matters into their own hands

I said, oh hell no I vowed I will be his last target He's gonna get what he deserves Listen to the Girlfriends Trust me babe On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How would you decide which songs went to Shalimar and which songs went to Dynasty? I'd wait and write it with the artists.

Not with them per se, because a lot of them didn't write. But I'd wait until I'd get with the group and see what they had, what ideas they had. Because that would differentiate, even if it's one person or if it's two that has, the dominant personality, I'd get to have something of the group, you know, that if I just created everything, you know, everything would sound the same. So I wanted to, even though the main quality thing was there, you know, sometimes people heard a Shalimar record in Dynasty and Dynasty and a Salamar record. But sometimes it comes off like that, you know. So was Bank crafted before you met Shalimar or you met them first, got to see their personality.

Yeah, I did that before I met him, I think. Yeah, I think, yeah. Why did, was it Gerald? Who came in before Howard Hewitt? Gerald Brown, I think was his last name. Okay. Yeah, what, well, even then, because before they were threesome, they were like a five-sum, because they did that uptown special thing.

You had nothing to do with that very first thing. Okay. Actually, I did meet him first. But it was just to say hi type thing. Because Dick was more interested in me getting in studio because they had a deadline, you know, basically. Okay. So. Okay.

Okay. I hate to ask this question because I don't know if I want to know the answer to it. How much singing did Jeffrey Daniel do in the group? Oh, he did all of him, all his voice. Okay, good, good. I didn't have to use nothing. He would hit them notes. I was like, oh, okay.

And this is always afraid that he really wasn't singing those parts, and then, like, you know, he was just there for the dancing. And he hung. Like, he would stay more on Keating and Jody sometimes. Wow. Yeah. And he wasn't, he was a worker. It wasn't, you know, I'd nitpicked so much that some of the artists go crazy a little bit.

Because it's like, okay, one more time, you know. And then it's like, they hear it's been cool about 10 times ago, you know. But I was just looking for, I'd have to memorize, like some I wanted Pearson and some I wanted smooth. And I didn't want to tell them. I just wanted to, and I'd set up the input. puts on the record where they wouldn't hear a change. In other words, I'd have them singing, but I'd know the other ones on there, so I'd cut in, even though they don't hear a recording going in.

So I would do it like that. And I got so good at it that, you know, I'd go in between the S's and stuff like that. Really? Oh, yeah. Pre-pro tools? Yeah, I guess. Man, you must have a challenge. I went crazy doing that too because I had to stop because, you know, you expect the engineer to do that.

You know, I did, you know, because I was like, hey, man, you're messing me up. What the? You know, I'd get mad at the engineers. And he was just looking like, you just in between an ass. So I didn't want to hear that. I just wanted to finish and get out of there, you know. So I kind of went crazy on, which wasn't cool. Kind of sort of, maybe.

there's a question I have about second time around. Was the rhythm, where the rhythm tracks cut, not even the rhythm tracks, were the drums initially cut to another song and then at the last minute you change? This is the only reason why I'm asking, because the traditionally a drum feel

usually happens on the four count that leads to the one, like three, four, do, do, do, bs, and establishes, just a new one. Second time around, the drum field is having in a very odd place, which leads me to believe, I was like, either those guys are like math geniuses where they just decided, okay, on the three,

do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I know what I'm talking about? Yeah. And you know, I'm like, no, no, I'm just talking about the. Yeah, yeah. It never happens on. To set up the one. Right.

It happens in a weird place. And I was like, okay, either they just had another song. mind. He decided, no, let me just take these drums. Just cut it over that. And do that. Actually, that one, no, that was the song. We recorded it like that. And Wardell would go, he was playing the drums on that, Wardell Potts.

And he would throw different different fields at different times, and sometimes I'd say, no, not there. But then I'd say, oh, remember that one you did? Do it the same way on the other one, too. That kind of thing.

So I liked... It's just very unorthodox. If it didn't mess up the vibe, I let it stay. How would you... Tell us about your process of tracking your drums. I read an interview a while back

with Nicholas from The Whispers. And he was saying how you would track like a metronome for like six minutes. Oh yeah. I've done that, but they had the song wrong. It wasn't on the beat goes on. And it was...

I think it was... Keep on loving me that I played the drums on. Wardell was supposed to, but something happened, either a thing in his family or he couldn't, or he was sick. So I was set up, so I would go back to doing the drums by the numbers, you know. You're your best drummer then, because that's my song. Yeah. So that's you playing on Keep on Loving Me.

Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Talk about working with the wristwers because I know that first, For years, they struggled with getting a hit. And it's kind of funny because watching their evolution on Soul Train, each appearance, Don would tease them, like, you know, like, you know, one day you're going to have a hit, one day you're going to, and then that episode in which they do and the beat goes on,

it's such an inside joke with them. They're laughing so hard because it's like, yeah, finally we got a hit. We got a hit. How did you? Well, how did that come to be with them? I knew that, well, they were already, they were a balladeer group, really. They had great ballads. I loved, only meant to wet my feet and all that.

That was great. So I didn't even try to do ballots because I knew they had that covered. So I was, okay, there's no R&B disco group that, because mostly back then when I first was doing that, it was pop groups doing that disco type stuff. let's all chat you know that kind of you know right so I wanted to do

an R&B type disco and I said oh I could do that on them and all uptempo stuff just make it R&B disco because there really wasn't that many except for what's his name started doing it

chic Nile Rogers and them but some they didn't hit I mean I mean, they had that, bum, bum, bum, bum,

they had that one before the, I was working. But that didn't do as big as La Freight. That kind of state. They honed their craft right then. Up temple without being four on the floor. Exactly. So, yeah, let me explain. I don't know if you know.

No, talk to me, talk to me. Okay, so the boogie, the genre of boogie, or what people call boogie. First of all, like I already know that. that it's always some mamma jamma behind a typewriter that comes up with these terms or whatever. I was about to say that's a genre, Boogie? I didn't even...

Yes. So basically, Boogie was post-disco. In other words, barbecue two-step music. Think of before I let go. Think of second time around. Basically, slow down disco. So if the average disco songs about 128 BPMs, think of like, you should be dancing by the Bee Gees.

Boots, boot, boot, boot, boot, boot, right. This, boogie's more of a 118 to 120, like second time around. It could have a four-in-the-floor, but think of like make that move or second time around. Do-da-do-do-do-boon-to-boon-to.

No, but even then, but just has a groove. Like a groove to boogie could still be and the beat goes on, but more of a... Do-do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- like a slower. The emphasis is on the two in the four. Like, it's the, yeah.

Yeah, you don't feel like you're on cocaine. Okay. Like, again, it's like, cocaine is, Sylvester's, do you want to phone with me? It's a good sotiva. Yeah, something that your grandma can dance do. I got you. It's, it's the barbecue thing. But the thing is, did you, with the desperation that critics had to end disco and all those things, like, did you have this

plan in mind because even when Quincy Jones describes his mission with off the wall and sort of like his production work with the brothers down in like between 77 and 83 he's describing like we got to kill disco. Were you

trying to kill disco at the time? Like was this this convoluted plan like I'm gonna no I was literally trying to carve out my Leon Motown sound, I guess, because I didn't care about what other people thought.

I knew I had a ballad group that they never did disco. And I was going to do more than just the normal pop high synthesizers. Because when I first cut it, I knew, okay, I'm going to go Motown Jameson with the bass because I wanted a unique type bass because that's why I went up with the strings because the kick was real low. So I wanted to have that, and I wanted to have them do some false things. And then Scotty's voice, he remind me of,

he don't sound like Nat King Cole, but his voice is identifiable like Nat King Cole was back in the day. Like when you hear a whisper song, you know who he is. And there's nobody else that has that ring to his voice. So I was using that. for making the melodies, and I wanted to do a unique bass line. I wanted to put emphasis on the bass and kick. Can you please answer this question?

The Scotty brothers, the Scotty twins. When they're on TV singing, they're both singing tandem at the same time. Yeah, they do sound alike. Who is singing? Who's singing on... I don't even know sometimes. I forget. But they do have the same tone.

Scotty can just go higher and longer. Okay. Would you ever track them both together in unison? Yeah. We did that sometimes on emergency. Yeah. In the rope. Maybe that too.

But who's your go-to, Scotty? Is it Wallace or Walter? Like, who's your... Oh, well, Walter. Scotty was the main lead when he get to high notes. But Walter and both of them could sing, and I forget who's doing what. After I put Walter on, then put Scotty, and ain't no high notes.

One of y'all just go in and do... I mean, he could hit some high notes, but not like Scotty's ring. And Scotty wouldn't... When we did that tour, he has one of them voices where he don't get horse a lot. You know, some people can get hoarse, and it's a rap. You know, I never heard him get horse. That's one thing I heard some of the other groups get horse on that tour. Scotty, never.

But that's, I guess, his style of singing or something. But when I put both of them on just regular verses, I can't tell who's singing. Did you produce Lady? No. Okay. Just and the beat goes on.

Okay. And the beat goes on and I think out the box. And I think there was two or three I did on each album. You didn't do the whole Whispers album that? Okay. Keep your love around. You did that one, right? Keep your love around.

Yeah. I did that with Kemp. Heaven and Will. Yeah. I love that song, man. Yeah, I want to recut that because I didn't like all that echo crap that. On the vocal? Yeah. Or on the music.

The snare was watery. I didn't like that. But I thought it was a sound. Did you use one studio? For the first part of Solar stuff was Studio Masters over on Beverly Boulevard near the Beverly Center. Okay. But after that, we recorded. at different places.

But mostly all that original, first couple of years was done all at Studio Masters. So what, the formation of Dynasty, did you have an itching to, you know, to get, to be an artist again and to be in the spotlight? Excuse me?

Not really, but the band that I used wanted to. And I used, because I was using Mordell Ricky Smith, Kevin, Will, before we was a group, playing on all the solar hits that I produced, I'd used the same people. So we became a group actually before the beat goes on. Because we cut that song, and we had a place

that got us a room to rehearse, and it was kind of a rank-type place. but everybody called it Do Do Do Do Records. Steve Schoakley, a Lakeside, called it that. So everybody knew what it was. We rehearsed and I started cutting the beat goes on there. After we made the idea when we was cutting second time around in the studio. And Steve Shockley was playing an exercise, actually, on the guitar.

Doing it as an exercise. And the bass came to my head. head so I said, oh, repeat them first two, just back and forth. And I told Wardell to hit the straight kick and told the studio the engineer to run the tape before we was there to cut second time around. But I heard that baseline office and then Steve started embellishing it. And the baseline came immediately. Oh, so you try to cut something else and then just a sidepiece. It's run the tape for about a minute just to get that idea on, you know.

And then I finished the song. Wow. So did you just loop that minute? Just that. Nice. But I didn't loop it when I recut it. We cut it over. Oh, you cut it.

After I went through everything with everybody, you know. Like Will had the keyboard line and, you know, we practiced before we go in the studio. Because I didn't want to willy-nilly it like that. I wanted you, musicians. stay on pocket, let's go, you know, that kind of thing. You know, so we practice, and, you know, I just could hear tempo a lot. You know, I'd practice it. I could hear when something's off a lot, you know, so I wanted to practice.

And we didn't have, I wasn't that technical. I was more of a musician back there, back then, you know. Hey, didn't y'all sample, John, y'all sampled, why you blowing up a spot? Oh, I'm sorry. Nigger. A la Ea. I would assume that... I assume that we would...

Did we have money to clear any sample? On the menstrual show? No. Stop it. On the menstrual show? No, no. You're on Atlantic records. The joints you're talking about

I wasn't on the minstrel show. Never mind. Yes, miss. You know that myself. Anyway, It's time to do dirt, don't call Questlove. Salian. Why are we here now?

Look, it's like, no, there was, it's a foreign exchange song. Oh, my bad. I'm sorry? No, actually, there was a little brother. It was a little brother. What? I could have sworn it was either

Shout Marthian. It was on get back, or left back. Oh, I did. I know that shit ain't get me. It was a, what? No, no, no, no. Okay, I know what you're talking about. You're talking about so good.

It was a whisper joint. So good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, attitudes. Yeah. That was dynasty, I think. That was dynasty. That was not, that was just a B side.

That was just something we just cut. That was in. I'm sorry. Yeah, that was, I mean, shit, I'm out here now. No, there's another foreign exchange song that is heavily influenced Okay, that's what we do.

Influence. But that's what love is made of just the harmony, man, that shit is amazing. And, like, I didn't even know. I had never heard the original song before. And then I was like, damn, like, these fucking vocal, this vocal arrangement is crazy. So, yeah, I've been heavily influenced

throughout my career by the work of Mississippi and I think the statute of limitations on all that shit is over but if you succumbed to me you'd just be getting practice those records did nothing

so you're better off just working on a new song with me let's do that because you ain't gonna get shit I'm sorry. I'm just talking about that on the way over here. Yeah, we was in the damn Uber. I was like, man, I'm going to find out how she wouldn't bring up that sample?

And lo and behold, I'm so excited. I'm sorry. That's my birthday twin. The indictment supreme. Anyway, to dynasty. I thought I don't want to be a frequent with Shalamar for the longest. and I did so well I guess

you already said your your process on deciding what goes where and well that one no that one was that was the first thing I spent my own money to go and record on this song it wasn't even I didn't know what the title was going to be yet

I just went in and cut it I spent 10 grand and cut about full songs yeah yeah But I wanted to be in there by myself, cutting, and the engineer was good help. He told me how to, you know, what it was and were the engineers and all that. So this was right after I was out the group, the Silvers, and I wanted to go into the studio and cut. And so I practiced this and went in and cut that track.

So it wasn't common to have your own facility at this time to. to like work out ideas and a place of your own and that sort of thing, or you just had to rent? Back then, no, I was just out the silver. So I wasn't living at the house because I had gotten married. And I was, me and my wife had a place.

Actually, we got separated by then. So we were, I was, cutting these songs on my own. to hone my production skills, if you will. Your wife was in Dynasty, correct? Was she in Dynasty? Well, yeah, my second wife. Oh, the second wife, okay.

Yeah. Do that. But, yeah, but that particular song was, the track was cut. Because I just wanted to get that music on tape because I had an idea. And later on, after I was doing Shalimar and all that. and we got the group dynasty together. I went back to that track, and I went to a couple of clubs,

and they had a thing called, you know, Freak was the title back then, and everybody was acting like they was having sex on the dance floor. What was the dance, too? Yeah, it was a dance called The Freak. So I said, oh. And I saw, I came, we came with somebody that was,

she was more like a, um, she wasn't hip or nothing or wasn't loose or none. So she came to the club and was asked, wow, it's like the first time. And then two guys ran on the side of her and was, you know, one on one side of sandwiched her. And she was like, oh, my God, why? And then got into it.

And I was like, oh, shit, that's a song. I don't want to be a freak, but I can't help myself. And that's how I wrote that. And I put that on that. Literally, that's how that worked. We call that song HR in 2008. That song, have your asses. Hashtag.

Hey, speaking of Dynasty, what was your reaction to Camp Loz Luchinian? The land of music. That's great. I was happy. You know, although I would like to, I was so into those sampling things because it's like you do work one time and you get paid again. Right. For not, you know, so that's all. that is like man someone liked it again again like that's the thing like was it shocking to you like

oh my god like i can't believe 20 years later like this is oh it was it was it was great i mean that's why i knew i made me tell my son because he's into it now uh never do anything you have but you do it because you never know who's going to like it later nobody likes stuff that they feel you just cut any kind of weight or I can do that that ain't nothing special to it and if you start recording and doing your creative thing like that it will sound like that and that's how that's why I was like wow we did something right if it can sell again uh in a whole new generation you know yeah and the thing with you like with your samples like a lot of times like you were here you would hear you would find like samples that other producers would use and

you would hear the sample and it's like, that be the only hot part of the song. But your song, the whole shit would be dope. Like the whole thing. Like Vincent's the Land of Music, yeah, it's the part they sample from the top. But the whole song is a dope song. I was like, oh, man.

Like, that's really good. Thanks, thanks. Yeah, well, I have to, half of that go to Ben Wright because he's a bad piece. Oh, wow. Oh, Benzman Wright did the strings? Oh, yeah.

Wow, okay. Benjamin Wright. Wow. I tried to get him on everything Because he loved what I did And he'd add something Instead of just impact some horns on it Where, you know, he would add another groove to it

And I was like, okay, we got Ben. Damn, great Ben Wright was on it. Ben Wright also did Don't Stop to Get Enough. Oh, shit, all right. Hey, he did until the end of time. Justin Timberlake. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's still going strong at that day.

Hey, question. With the go-forid album by Shalimar, the red painting art album. And the Friends album. It was kind of weird. I mean, back in the 60s or 70s, it was normal for an actor released maybe two or three albums in the same calendar year.

I wasn't used to that in 1981. Like, they started off the year with the GoFort album and with Friends. Why were those two Shalmore albums released in such close proximity to each other. Because Dick Griffey had a contract obligation to finish by the end of the year. And he owed one album on everybody. So we all had to get together and do the albums within a month or two, everybody.

So I had, but I didn't want to put nothing out. that didn't have no, at least one or two bangers that could have a chance to sell, you know. So I came up with Keep on Loving Me for the Whispers, not keep on Loving Me, this kind of loving on the whispers. And then this was a throwaway album. Let him have his moment. Look, Matt, Fonte.

The changes in that song, that bridge, the pre-chorus that goes into, where did that come from? Evan Spencer. Oh my God, man. I love this. It's such a detour. Like, it starts off as one thing.

And then it goes into that. And it's like, what? But then somehow it finds its way back to the hook. It's like, oh, shit. That's fucking genius, man. Yeah, he had a couple of changes. And I was like, okay, know that one. And then, because I like to take it a little someplace.

That's my Motown thing, I guess. I like going how to even take changes. You did it again. Because you produced as well, Shalomar, Let's Find a Time for Love. That one is another one for me. It's another Kevin Spencer joint. Ah, okay.

He was a great keyboardist, though. He was doing stuff like, on make that move when that little, he would do some classical runs with the keyboard, and he was doing it as an exercise to get ready for the song. And I said, no, no, no, put that in the song. right after do-dun-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d.

Give me that build-up just like that, the classical-type thing. So I would pick things that he would do, but he would be the one doing it. You know what I'm saying? We also got a note that, you know, for all these dance classics you made, I mean, okay, you didn't do late,

but you definitely did Shalamara's somewhere for me. Oh, yeah. Somewhere there's a little bit for me. Oh, yeah. It's a love. Oh, okay. Dog.

Okay, this is going to be the moment of. Rapparer fire. Like, just. The true, the true geek out. That was cool. That was another one I played the drums on, too. That was when I first started drums by the numbers. Oh, man.

With so many hits and even the filler and stuff that didn't, you know, whatever, the beat, like, do you have favorites that you've done, like, yeah, okay. that's my piece de resistance. Like what are they as far as your... The first one was I've just begun to love you that because I dreamed that. Really? Yeah, on stage that melody.

It came in a dream. And I had the baseline in the dream too. All came in a dream. what I call licksavers, but they're dictapones that lawyers used to use. By the bed or? By the bed in the car and one at the studio, locked up in the room, no, so I can get it. Yeah, so I, because I'd like to do a lot of spontaneous stuff that comes if it's feeling right. And you, you never get it quite the same.

I know everybody tried to say that, but, you know, if it's like, oh, do that again. and I know when it ain't that again, you know, so they would say, yeah, I can get that. And then I said, okay, let me hear it. And then they do it. Okay, that ain't it, dude. You know, so I would keep it, cut it, and keep it, and use it later, you know. So, got to ask, with the onslaught of hits that you're producing between 78 and 81, which is, you know, just out the woodwork, by this point, are your brother's, brothers and sisters coming to you like, what about us?

What about us? On that total. Yeah. Were they like, hey, congratulations. Can we have a night to remember or like, you know, were they? Wait, didn't your sister write that?

Which one? I think your sister co-wrote a night to remember. Did she not? No. I think it was her name was on not night to remember no Charmaine

well oh yeah she was supposed to put Foster's name on there because Foster did the guitar part on he created that guitar part and then I did I heard the bass line and did the rest and put his name on.

But then Charmaine was, he had her be the publishing company person because he was still signed to Al Ross. Oh, y'all just laundering. They put the parliament. Y'all was wondering. Grace Cook, J.S. Theron. And I guess Foster wind up, you know, putting her name down. So wait a minute.

When it comes to the Janet Jackson debut album, who produced that? Because I'm under the impression that your family produced that. Was that you? Come give you a love to me. That was Foster. Okay, so he did. And then I did another one. Don't give up this good thing.

Yes, he did. Don't give up this good thing. Yeah. That low. See, and that's the thing. The fact that you just casually forgot that, like, that song means. everything to my DJ set now in 2018.

What? In ways you to... Like, it's just... It's... It's a jam. Even, yo, when I DJ parties for her, like, I'll put that shit on and just to freak her out because it's like, how can

y'all forget how good the song sounds? It was before it's time. I don't think it really... At the time it came out, it was coming... No, back then, like, filler could be filler, but now it's like the quality of music so bad that

any good quality song is like a filler joint back then is a damn now. I love that you just casually forgot you made that song. I remember you tried to send that song to me and say it was a new Janet Jackson song. Like, yeah, Janet's going boogie. And it was like, no, dang, I know this record. Well, since, she's the one of rewriting her history, acting like the first album didn't exist. Man. So also, okay, are you familiar with the,

the Jam and Lewis Keep On Loving Me story? Yeah. So, how did it feel to have, and it's very weird because is this not the studio that he fired them in? We're at Sunset Sound. Was it? Yes, they had a meeting in that room. where they got fired.

How did it feel, first of all, were your thoughts on Prince's music circa 80, 81, 82? And how did it feel to have him so nervous that he swears even to this day? Well, he's not to this day. Well. Not funny.

I wasn't trying to be funny. I wasn't trying to be funny. How to feel, at least in the back of his mind to think that, you know, that it was Jammin Lewis that really produced Keep On Loving Me and not you. That's funny because Jesse was the one that told me Prince because he would want to play on some of the records and I let him play on some of the solo stuff. Jesse Johnson? Yeah. He played on a couple of them.

He played by like Dead Giveaway, right? Yeah. I think that, I think. You did think so. Yes, everyone. I forget who But he's the one that said Man, we was We was doing a solid goal

I think There was a show out Solid goal I remember solid goal It was a Maryland McCool you told me He said In between the songs

They would play other people's records For them to dance And he said Keep on Love Me came on And Prince went up over to the studio And was just listening For a long time And then he came over

just Jesse and said, man, I'm glad they're not into our kind of stuff. That's all Jesse told me. He didn't say that Prince thought Terry and Jimmy did it. He didn't say that to me. He said it that way. But they didn't have nothing to do with that. That was actually Wardell's baseline. Wardell Potts came to me with just the baseline and keep on loving me. And that's that. And he was in I said, oh, that's kind of nice. Were you around for the video for Keep On Loving Me? The video? Like, just them dancing in this band.

That video is amazing. Yeah, me and my man, Zoe, we did. We paid homage to that video for a song we did called We're on the Move, which did not sample any silver. My brother, my brother, my son, my son told me about that. Oh, man. He's wanted, and I said, oh, because I saw it and I said, oh, that's nice. You know, I liked it because it was, you know, that was banging.

Thank you. Yeah, I was like, dang. Because I wanted to study. Man, listen, you just made my year. Yeah, I'm poor one jealous. Like, yeah. Yeah, that was a total homage. Like, what was Nicholas like?

What was he, I mean, he passed, I guess, been a couple years ago. Oh, man, yeah. What was he like, man? He was great, man. He was, uh, I mean, he was the energy in a group, you know what I'm saying? He would

personality-wise, we'd never had no not one thing. It was, it was just like talking to a family member. He was cool. He was very private, though. He didn't want nobody to know nothing about him or where he lived or anything like that. Nick was like, Leon, let me give you this number.

Drop me off him in the corner. Don't you get this to nobody. I mean, he was serious. That kind of, so I was like, oh, I get it, dude, you know, gotcha, you know. So he was, he was just very, he didn't have his, I didn't even know he had a family. I heard of it, but he didn't show. He was that secretive. Oh, yeah, he didn't play around.

Family on the other side of town or something. Yeah. He didn't even want to talk about him at work. Did you produce emergency by The Whispers? Yeah. Have you ever seen that video? I don't remember. Crazier than keeping him.

I love for me. If that's all I'm going to say. And yeah, Nicholas, the tall one? Yeah, yeah. The super beard. Yeah, he might deserve an Oscar or something. You got it. I mean, it's a song's emergency, and it's them fighting over a pay phone, getting on a pay phone.

But the thing of the craziness of keep on loving me and just add a phone booth to it. You got to see it to believe it. Yeah. It took our artists, I think, a lot, a long time to really get videos. Like, those are, if you look at videos from the early ages, like, you can just see. They were terrible. But they try to do that now. Like, even if a song, like, don't look any further.

Like, there's a generation. It's got a second life now. Yeah, there's a mean. Millennials are discovering these videos now. Actually, I just, there was an article I just saw on Facebook that somebody posted. I think it's on The Root.com about the 10 best worst. black music videos and keep on loving me is on there

that should not be there that's a classic no I said the same thing what was the song you just mentioned Emergency? No, there was another one Oh, don't look any further That was like the number one song

Yeah, it's got a second life now Yeah, it's an art Shalimar had one that Well, they were behind a bar Yeah In a flower place or something with it In a book Oh, I don't want to be the last to know

that video did not make any sense I knew it back then when I saw it on and then some of the people when they go on YouTube and say that was a weird video but I love that group you know and someone said that video don't make sense but Jody is great you know it was like

everybody was mentioning but it was you know their singing was great a win is a win A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girlfriends,

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. How did you get involved in the Black Street album? I wanted to ask that question. Oh, my.

You can ask. Can we skip five star? Because I had a whole five star moment. Oh, no, we can. This is just, we rap it fire. We also skip Evelyn Champagne King and Crystal and Rappet Fire. Luscious, dame. All right, all right, good, good.

We'll come back. So, go ahead. Black Street. All right, so Black Street. Well, I sent Teddy Riley's manager. who was Harvey Austin back then. God rest his soul, he passed. But he was his manager, and he said Teddy asked him to call me,

and he found out where I was. I was living in Reno then, and he said he would like to him. He's coming out to L.A., and he wants to meet with me about coming back to VA and helping him with a group. That's all they said. And I said, oh, okay, and he said, If you have something,

so at that time I was working on my wife and her sister's group. They were rappers. And they called themselves onyx before. Oh, wow. Onyx. Before the other onyx. Like years before. So I sent them their tape and Markell got it.

And he loved it and played it. and played it for Teddy. And when they came out, I met him at the hotel and I was catching a flight with him back the next couple of days and went out there and he loved after we talked and what I did. And I was going around looking for a place to stay during that whole time, you know.

So, well, you were you? You actually, like, because you co-wrote before I let you go, right? Yeah. How did that come about? Well, he would give me, he told me he had some, those Atari computers, which was the beginning of logic. And they were built on these, inside these Atari great computers. And he had about five of them up there,

but none of the other writers and guys would take them use them because they did you know teddy didn't come with a guy to teach him I guess you know so he said I got one of them computers over there and I was like okay that's the Lord telling me I got to get with it or leave it alone so I said give me one of them computers over there and uh give me a book and uh you know oh you you know so I said cool no problem so I took it home learned it and started doing stuff through there and then when I brought a song to him with that, all he had to do was hook it up and run it through his pro tools and all that because he had it all set up. And he loved that, you know, and then he

started telling everybody else to do it. You know, so we got along that way by ethical work practices mostly, I guess, you know. Well, I mean, to rewind a little bit, there was a little bit of unethicalness from Teddy, well, possibly with the group today and the song, Girl, I Got My Eyes on You. Oh, yeah. Did that get clear? Because that was a direct bite of Carrie Lucas to show me where you're coming. Of course.

Yo. Dude, thank you. But I didn't look at it as a bike because how can you hide that? I was on some, oh, hey, we. Where's my check? Yeah, that's why I like that song. You know, so. Damn.

It's a hit me. Yeah. And I just told Dick and them, oh, we got a record out there. A hit. That's the exact melody of Show Me Where You're Coming from. So that's cool. You know, I was taking it like that because, you know. Can you explain the muscle of Dick Griffey? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, the Shug Nitis. Was he Shuggy? He was more old school Shug. I mean, Dick was a. you know, he was a, he was from that gangster thing, but he was more, he went to college, he should did too, though. Dick played football and was a drummer.

He's a musician, so he knew he had a better ear than most people thought, you know, so he could hear, you know. During the time when you were producing, like you said you were in Reno for a while, so during that your solo run, were you making good money as a producer? getting royalties off the records and stuff like that? Well, yeah, but it wasn't like the first couple of records was like three points

and production advance. I think it was five or ten grand or something like that. But the first couple of ones, but he wanted to sign me exclusive and I didn't want to sign exclusive. So I didn't, I only signed exclusive one time when I was, when I had my family group come over there and he wanted me to sign exclusive. I said, okay, for a year only. That's, you know, and that's the only time I signed exclusive with him because I wanted to go other places and, you know, do some things. And with, like, if you notice on the first part of them records, Dick put his named down as producer with me.

I was wondering how much of that was. And I was like, I didn't know that. He was going to do that. I knew he had a publishing situation, so he would sign, he signed William Shelby and Kevin. And I, because he had his own publishing deal. So I was like, okay, well, you bringing me into this situation. So he wanted to sign Kevin so that he could get publishing and that kind of thing.

But Kevin was a legitimate writer, so I didn't mind it like that. You know, well, Kevin has to get his part. So you sign Kevin, and I'll have my other. So it'll be even, and I know they're doing their work. And I ain't giving nothing away, you know. So and helping some young dudes get their thing on, you know. So that was our relationship. I was the one that had to make it be something more than just this how it is,

the kind of thing, you know. And me and Dick just got along, really. He didn't mess with me on what to do or what to. And it was like, you know, when that happened, I'd say, okay, well, if you want that way, you'd do it. You know, you're going to get it. I'm done. And he would be, I was one time, I think a whisper's thing.

And they were complaining about, no, it was Lakeside. I didn't bring up Lakeside. It was Lakeside. I was doing all the way live. And Fred didn't want, didn't want a. Hatsal. Hit after hit. Right.

Well, you know, he didn't want, he just wanted the hook and the music, no verses. And I said, no, that's not how you, did you got a great hook here. You need to, let's make some birds. And he was like, he jumped up. He wanted to fight me. You know, so it was like, okay, okay, dude. Okay, roll the tape up, told the engine they put it back in the thing. Now, Fred was big, muscles, and he was about my size, but bigger.

And he was the one he could fight. Everybody knew he could go a little bit. So I was like, oh, shit, big Fred. I'm going to have to. But I couldn't see no artist knocking me out in those two. Yes. Talk heavy. So I said, okay, friend, we can go out and try to do this,

but, you know, she still ain't going on tape like you wanted. Let's go. So I went outside. I was looking for a pipe or something in case it didn't look too good for me. And there was one right here when I opened the door. And I said, okay, yeah. Oh, no, let me get over here. So he don't look there.

And if he's getting too fast for me, I can duck, get the pipe, boom, get the ankles or the knee. Night, night, Nick. And you can still play the congos with a cat. Yes. But it didn't get to that. You know, Otis came out and said, Lee, come on in. We ain't got. And I was like, whew.

You know. This is crazy. It's like over-hit, like. No, well, he was just close. to it. Some people have their own ways of deal breaking when it comes to a melody or what they think is you're going to mess up in their song. Every writer, every good writer gets a little crazy sometimes with what their baby is, you know, and he had one, you know, because I know that chorus was there and that boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know. Okay, you got something,

dude. So I took him in the room and I said, just play the beat. And then just keep that boom, boom, boom, boom going. Nothing. And then do, do, do, do, do. I just broke it down and gave them lick. The only person I didn't have to give a lick to, well, I didn't have to give it to none, but it came. Right. So they're all playing small parts.

Yeah. And then Fred came in and said, oh, I got a part, Lee. He didn't want to do no verse And he came on with that It laid together perfectly. I was like, okay, that's it. Nothing else. That's rocking.

Let's cut. And that's how we cut it, you know. And then we did the, actually I did the melody on the verses too. I should have asked for some writing. But it was so dramatic back then that I didn't want to add that to the mix. after we had a hit type thing. You know, so I said, because they said, well, Lee, you kind of ruled us.

Now, don't worry about it. I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want Fred to get all, go through something. You know what I'm saying? So what happened with, I mean, not that Silard went anywhere after 84, but it's almost like that era of, and I know music was changing by then,

but like, what do you feel happened after 84? I consider like maybe Chalemar's the look probably I mean even did you do anything on what's the album after the look when Delisa Davis and Mickey Free were in Shalamore? Oh man I cannot write. Did you work on any of those records

like circumstantial evidence and no but Foster did actually accidentally he had a record that was supposed to go on that album and well he had actually Mickey Free was his artist

and Mickey Free was signed to me and Foster. Oh, my gosh. So Dick wanted, his daughter was the one was instrumental in bringing Mickey Free over. Not, not, the older daughter. Okay. Yeah, well, she was working for Dick. And she wanted Mickey Free and Salamore when the Howard name was gone.

So Dick told Mickey he liked his look and says, yeah, man. So Mickey asked him, says, Lee, we want to, I want to go. I said, okay, now you sure? Because we had a deal for him at A&M. Oh. Off a record call,

this party, let's party, I think. Me and Foster did. And he was, they said they wanted to sign him. But he, they was going to sign him at the, after the end of the year. So he said, Lee, they're doing a movie. I can jump in it. And I said, well, that's up to Foster now, you know,

because I don't want to hold nobody back. So Foster said, okay. And Foster said, I got to do something on the album. And so Dick said, okay. So when it got time to do that, the dude, Wolf, who was the producer, Foster did a record on him, and Wolf said, I'll buy you out. He didn't want nobody else's record on it. And I said, Foster, I don't know, what if they have a hit, you'll let, you know.

And he said, well, you. no that's a weak one he can buy me out so he he paid uh foster i think 15 grand or something like that took the money in the song

they do nothing so foster made out and that you know that's how that and then the rest was you know they had got Sydney after a while after Howard left. Right, yeah.

I forgot about Sidney coming in. They kept that name alive for the longest even. I mean, it's still around. Still? I mean, there's another version. There's two Shalamars right now. There are. Right. Yeah, Jody was on Facebook going in.

Shalimar Reloaded and then there's Shalimar featuring Howard Hewitt. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's Howard King. And Jody's not in either. No, she's in Shalamar Reloaded. That's her thing. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm scared.

Anyway. And I got to say, man, dog, Shake Down is one of my all-time favorite songs you've ever done. That was a great vibe time, too, because we heard a track. She had, when she came down to do it, she had already cut some tracks from Simone. André Simon. And she said, you want to hear it?

And I said, no, no, no, no. I don't want to hear nobody else's. Nope. Right. And then later on, like, after we've cut some stuff, I heard a track. It was just a track. It wasn't a melody and words on it.

And I said, whoa, I thought it was some art guys, because I had about five rooms going. So I went up front with it, you know. Damn, I sound like a damn prince joint. Who did this? And then she said, that's the one. And I was like, oh, damn. What the

Okay, well Let me go back to the woodshed Because I really thought that track was a killer I didn't know what they was going to put on top of it But that track, if I had it I would have known exactly That track was a smash Trackwise though

Right And I said, okay, I want some funk I can combat this shit with some funk Give me Ricky Smith and Foster You know, because they both could pop good and Foster had a thing on that that shakedown I was like

Yes, yes That's tearing it around Then going to the funk from there I was okay Give me that Yeah Because she's kind of raunchy anyway She, you know

I'm saying for you know She ain't from a rich family And had that classy She was more You know And her voice was beautiful So funk would be great for her And that's how I was marking it.

And those, that and, what's that other one? Action. Action. And those were the singles. And I said, what the? No, I wanted to see what that other song was. And they told me it was called Teenager. And I listened to it.

And I said, wow. Niggas reduced that record. I couldn't believe it. I felt mad. How can you, I mean, what they put on top of it and then the mix was muddy. I was like, wow, because I knew that track. If you would have heard it with the, yeah, with the something, I guess Prince had that first mix. It was no vocals.

Man, that joint was killing. I know if I would have, I knew what it was, but they just took all of it. It wasn't even the same song. I was like, nothing. I got nothing from it. So I understand why the company didn't promote it. So, I mean, we're going to just fall on the endless rabbit holes. Is there any other?

You have your five-stop question, are you, right? Yeah, well. Speak now, because I got a question on standby. Okay, so I just wanted to know because they, of course, part of your childhood, if you were a certain age, but what attracted you to work with them? Was it because they, too, are a family group? I would just discover they were from the UK. I thought they were from here.

Yeah. Well, what happened with that was the A&R guy, Peter Robinson on RCA then. I was doing a group for him living in a box. No, it was. Dang, what's the name back? I forgot. Give me a second. I'll figure it out.

Trust me. They had a song called No Man is an Island. I don't know if that was a single. Your discots? What was the name of that? They had a, this guy, the leader of the group, like Curtis Mayfield. He did Curtis Mayfield sounding music. He was an English dude.

Well, I forgot their name. But I was out there doing them, and he said, well, would you do five-star? You know, and I was like, oh, cool, you know. Oh, you already knew who they were. Yeah. Okay. Was it called Living in a Box? Well, that was another group.

It wasn't the same group. I did something on that. We struck up a good relationship, me and Peter Robinson. Okay. And I did five-star. And, you know, they were. I like him. The lead singer, though, she was really...

Denise. Yeah, she... Where are they? Does anybody know? They came out to live in. They still do shows every now and then. They're still around. They came to America, though, and I was living out here.

Was it the Blow Monkeys? Blow Monkeys, that's that. Yeah. Lost Bill to the Rescue. Yeah. I like that group. That was fun. That dude was still.

talented. He knew what he wanted. And they didn't know. They asked me too. And I think it was hinging on, you know, in certain groups, they, they, they, they real intellectual, they know what they want. And they said, do you know where our sound comes from? What, what does it sound like to you? And I knew from the beginning, but I said, you have a Curtis Mayfield type vibe. And they all looked at each other and smiled. And yeah, we want him to produce type of thing. So are, oh, I'm sorry, go on. No, no, go ahead. No, I'm cool.

I was done. Are you, are you aware of kind of the, the nouveau slash retro bookie sound of today, particularly like in Calvin Harris's music, what he just released now, which is basically his version of bookie or, you know, the, you know, the work of, you know, groups like Chromeo. Tuxedo, or Tuxedo even, that are, you know, they're pretty much taking, like, DMX drum machine sounds and your live-based approach.

And that's, like, are you generally aware of the upsurgence of your 79 to 85 work? And even in stuff, like, stuff you did on Real to Real and all those other groups, like, I haven't I'd have to hear a song I don't know by the names you were saying it because I haven't gotten into it but if you're referring to

kind of what Bruno Mars is doing kind of or not as commercial there's a subculture of cats that are just like if you can put it up pull up Starlight by Zoe

okay I will this was like I say Starlight by Escort but no matter I don't know yes they have one too yeah my son really knows

He knows all right. Yeah, Starlight, Bazzo. This was like our Leon Silver's Whisper's homage. This was, man, I spent so much time on this vocal trying to sound like Scotty. And try to mix it

like how you would mix their stuff. L-I-T-E? L-I-G-H-T. I spelled it like I got a degree. While we're waiting for him to figure that out, how did you meet Jimmy Jammin' Terry Lewis? They came to L.A. and we, as a break from the time and Prince, and they came to our celebrity basketball game. Actually, they came to the studio and we met and I said, oh, hey, they wanted to meet me and type of thing.

And they played on our basketball thing that we did. And then we went back to the studio. And they were saying they, well, we're trying to get into writing with other people, you know, right now. And I was like, okay, let me hear some stuff, you know. And they played a song called High Hopes from a cassette, you know. And I was like, okay, that's banging. I always thought you did that, though. I produced.

I produced it. I would have to cut everything because bottom line is Prince had gotten mad and took them back. Actually, I told them they could do real to real first. Yeah, I said you can produce them. And then they let me hear what's his name later. And I said, oh, because I had signed my, I let my brother, Ricky and Gene Dozier signed him to do SOS ban. and they did it and then he played high hopes and I was like oh wait a minute okay I'm I'm I'm gonna take this and go do this on uh SOS band so I flew out there and I cut it myself but I

wanted to hear whose voice sounded like Terry's because Terry had a nice nonchalant oh he did the demo okay melody yeah you know and I loved the way he sounded. So I was listening to everybody sing, and the drummer had the voice. And I was like, oh, okay, you're going to sing this. And, you know, they were cool. They didn't say nothing because usually the girl is the one that, you know,

has to sing. So I had her do the high, oh, but his tone sang that perfect. And I didn't want to change the pitch and go high. Where did I try it? It didn't sound the same. So I had him do exactly the real drums because he had a cassio beat. he did everything on the cassio he little white cassio

and Terry and Jibbri and I was like okay okay let me get the cassette and then I went out there and had him play everything with the real drums but I kept that Cassio sound I went and bought one just like theirs

because I did that bittoon yeah so I wanted to make it more punchier but I did the melody, maybe change one or two words, but I did the melody like he did, but I had to, with the real drum sound and everything,

it was, I loved the way it came out, you know, because I couldn't have Jim, Gene and Ricky do it because they wouldn't do it with the same. Yeah, because this is something I wanted to do. So I just went out there and did it, you know. And my man was happy at Clarence Avon because, you know, they had a record right off the bat from that. It's funny you say basketball because three of the acts that you discovered, whenever Don Cornelius asked, how did you hook up with Leon Silver's?

They all had a basketball backstory, which I found hard to believe. Well, I think Crystal said that you met them at a Fatburger or something like that. At least that was the story on Soul Train. I met Crystal. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Out of Fatberg. But with Lus's Dame and Real to Real, they all said, yeah, we met him, you know,

there was a basketball game going on and da-da-da-da-da. And I'm like, well, how big was basketball in your life that you're meeting all your accent? Well, I was either going to play basketball or do music because that's how my head was into basketball and music. And so much that after I go play ball. I'd always write a song because I guess the blood flow was going. I loved ball. I played at Verben Day and they were to direct UCLA would look at Verben Day first before they go look at any other school because they had a,

Verben Day would win the all CIF every year and Jordan High would win all city every year. So those two schools came highly recruited for UCLA. and I was playing for Verben Day. And the coach, who was actually Tracy Edmund's father, was my coach. And he got moved to UCLA on my 11th grade at Verbum Day. And he was like, oh, I'll see you at UCLA, Leon. And I was like, oh, great.

Now the coach, all I got to do is keep my grades right, shoot them jumpers, and we're straight. So I was on that tip. but then after the all my whole family got signed I was okay it's easy quicker for us to get out the knickers and gone with everybody then me to wait four years to play ball and you know take them out uh yeah so Fonte you want to introduce oh this is uh Starlight yeah by my brother Zoe uh keyboardist producer um this from his album skybreak and this is our

we have several but this is my this is our Leon Silver's dedication it's unreal like to be playing this this man he did you justice man that's great man thank you thank you I'm just saying that with with there being a whole

subculture of people that are into your work like what is your your stock room, your cassette collection of all the unfinished demos and tapes and like how many songs do you have just on standby that are just... Well, I...

Oh yeah, you know you got a lot. I had a lot because there's, you know, certain things that don't make the grade, whether it's because you went to something else or you took the melody that was on that track. somewhere else. So bottom line is I'm going over that

right now because I put a lot of them in digital format. Thank you, Jesus. And me and my wife, we're doing some mobile type, TV type things. I'm going to have a thing called Story Behind the Song.

The ones that didn't make the grade, but like you say, there's a lot from that error that today would sound great because a lot of people want to hear the authenticity of that type of style right now.

When you open up them vaults, we won't first do. Right. You got it. We'll definitely let's do this. We can work on doing it together, you know. Brother Leon, yeah, thank you. Man. God, you have no idea.

This is this is Warren for the history book, man. We, you changed everything about our lives and just really made it better and man you literally created one of my favorite eras of a funk music man and I love everything about music but your contribution alone man is is is just outstanding thank you thank you I can't we can't say thank you enough yeah seriously yes thank you so so on the so on the On behalf of Sugar Steve, Sweet, it's Laia. Fonzigolo and Boss Bill, this is a very grateful,

West Love Supreme, only on Pandora, and we can see you over next round. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Thanks for having me. All right. Quest Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app.

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying. under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more

follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target.

is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.