The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Linda Perry

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

Singer-songwriter Linda Perry talks about her musical beginnings with 4 Non Blondes and how she creates chart-topping hits for stars like Adele and Pink. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that. to your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production

of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, it's on Pape Bill. Check out singer-songwriter Linda Perry as she talks about her musical beginnings with four non-blondes and how she creates chart-topping hits

for stars like Adele and Pink. Originally released November 28th, 2018. It is Suprema Subima Role Call Suprema Suprema

Superma Role call Suprema Suprema So prima roll call What's going on Yeah What goes on Role Call

Supremma Submma Role call Suprema Subima Role Call My name is Fonte Yeah And I must respond

and let y'all know I was the fifth non-blonde. Oh, God. Suprema, sub-sup, Suprema roll call. Suprema, sub-supremma, role call. Questlove Supreme. Yeah. We're reaching new heights.

Yeah. With four non-blonds. Yeah. And four non-whites. Rocah. Suprema, suh, sub-sumprema. Supreme a roll call. Suprema, sub-sprima, sub-sprima,

sub-sprima role call. Ball's Bill and QLS. Yeah. Always giving you more. Yeah. Show's about to start. Yeah. What's you waiting for?

Roll call. Suprema, Subrema, Role call. Suprema, Subrema, Ro call. Yeah.

Hey, I say. Yeah. Linda Perry. Damn. Yeah. What's going on? Oh, Yeah.

Suprema. And you overlap. Ro call. Suprema. Subrema. Subrema. Sub. Subima Roll Call.

My name is Linda. Yeah. I just talked over you. Yeah. But I'm here. Yeah. And I got a clue. Roca.

Nice way. Nice way. So, Supremma roll call. Supremma, Submama, sub, sub, subprima role call. Suprema, sub, sub, supremo roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, subprima role. Can I just say it once, boss?

No. No. Come on. No. No, no do-overs. What's going on? That's supposed to sound like that, but it just... Well, I already beat you to it.

Yeah, and I told you not to do that. I said yesterday, nobody do any... You can't establish rules to roll call. We do it all the time. Yeah, we do it all the time. Like, you should know already. We've been at this for two years. And then when I told you, I asked you not to do it,

you was like, oh, that's easy anyway. No, not at all. I'm just saying that you have the hardest because you're last second-to-the-guess of the show, So you have to figure out. You got to think, yeah. Yeah. I always write like three.

Yeah. Lessons learned. Sorry, Linda. Yeah. Hey. It's cool. I think I had the toughest position. Yeah.

True. Yes. You were all rehearsed. Yeah, I liked it. I walked. I talked over you. I made my amends to it. And here I am.

What's the difference? I won again. So. Now you're feeling yourself after a few weeks of being off. Anyway, y'all, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme only on Pandora. We got a team Supreme with us. Hello, hello, hello.

What are we? What are we? What are we? We are live at, wait, now I forgot the, the pun behind the here word. We are here. We are here. We are here. H-E-A-R.

H-E-A-R. H-E-A-R. Studios. The lovely digs, the home digs. A studio with windows. Yes. That's a novel idea. With good scenery.

Well, we're always in the dark, so it's nice to see the outside and know what time it is. And it actually, honestly, I think makes my players play better because they feel like inspired and energetic and no one's falling asleep and doing the same thing over and over. So it's great. And then they can go jump in the pool if they need to. Hey. I want to move in already. Thank you. Anyway, our guest today is songwriting, producing heavyweight,

having penned hits and anthems for notables such as Gwen Stefani, Pink, Courtney Love, Alicia Keys, Aline Dion, Melissa Etheridge, Solange, James Blunt, Chief Trick, Faith Hill, Britney Spears, Calice, Ziggy Marley. Goopoly. My mother, my fifth grade teacher. A name I haven't heard in a long time, Janice Ian. Wow. That's amazing.

I believe she won a Grammy last year for her spoken word. book. Yeah, she owns that category, so her new life as an author. Dixie Chicks, Adam Lambert, Molly Cyrus, and of course, Christina Aguilera. And with an arsenal like that, of course, obviously she has to be in the songwriters

Hall of Fame. Please welcome singer, songwriter, producer, Ranger, award winner, engineer, and former non-blon. It is true. The one and only, to Perry to course like the team. Thank you. Praise her.

She is worthy. So, thank you. Without, without blowing up your spot too much to our 2,000 listeners.

No, I'm playing up. This is... That's 500 more than they told me. This is a win. No, but this is a very unique

situation that we're in. Usually like home studio, people in my opinion like the environment is always important

and where I am what I'm looking at right now and I can't describe I mean how would we describe this as a house on HGDV house hunters that the couple would pick

oh or the one on property brothers that they show you in the beginning and they say well you can't afford that one exactly it would be the house to like the humble house The humbling house. It's like, oh, I love this. This is open concept of all this. How much you think this cost?

This house is $2.4 million. Get the fuck out. Return to the project. Or love it or list it when they show you that really nice house and they never pick that one for some reason. They always go, let's love it. I'm going to love it. It's a cozy, comfy, atmosphere.

And usually artists I know either over. do it. Like, you know, some people take pilgrimage trips to Hawaii or Wyoming. Wait, why are we both using Kanye examples? I mean, listen. But, you know, then there's some artists that don't want to jinx it. Like, you know, a lot of the classic U-Tang records were still recorded in the same projects long after they had record budgets until the flooding forced them out into. Wasn't Teddy Riley still producing in the projects. Teddy Riley said that he did most of Michael Jackson's Dangerous album still inside

his lucky projects. Like that's his lucky pair of draws. And the thing is always like when you upgrade or when you go to comfort, then usually artists are afraid to go there because it might make them less edgy or whatever. But I love the fact that this

is comfortable and somewhat posh. but it's the perfect middle I mean it's not like the Wutang Projects far from it but far from the Wutang Projects so for you this is where we are

this is where you're this is where the magic happens I sound like MTV Cribs is this where the magic happened I want to go show you my cars now I saw the one by the pool it's beautiful yeah

my son has a better car than I do his like G wagon out there this is the one I would I lived in San Francisco when I was in Foreign on Blondes. That's where it all happened for me, and I lived there for a while, and then I lived in a big warehouse, and it didn't have any windows. So when I decided to come to Los Angeles, which was like, I had to argue with myself coming

down here. I was driving to visit a friend, and on my way, I was like, you know, oh, you're going to move to L.A., and I'm like, no, I'm not, and yes, you are, and I'm like, I'm not moving to L.A. because I never listen to music when I drive. and I just like to be in quiet. Wait, really? Yeah. That's weird.

Why? I don't, it's just, I like the piece. But isn't time slower? In my, no. I'll drive all the way from San Francisco's no music. Do you like to drive? Wow. I love to drive.

But I find it really meditating, you know? Where do your mixes? Like, when you mix, do you mix, do you give your mixes, like, test runs in the car? No, I listen here. And, well, at my other studio, which I want to bring here, is I had a little AM radio station. So I put it through the airways. I had one.

I think it went like 600. It went around the block. So it sounds good on AM radio. I really liked it. But so when I found this house, I liked that. It had the walls. I was looking for another house. But I bought the house.

Wasn't my intention to live over here. But I asked, where is the, where does no one want to go live? And everybody said in the valley. And I said specifically where, like Sherman Oaks and seen him like that's where I'm going to go move. So I found this house and I lived here for a while but then I bought a studio called Royal Tome and I called it Kung Fu Gardens and that was 11,000 square feet. It was huge. It was beautiful but it was a big version of this and then when my wife and my, I had me and my wife had a son, I sold that studio to simplify and I turned this house that

was actually just sitting here. I live in Hancock Park but this had been sitting here and I was renting it out to friends. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to turn that house into my studio. And so I just kept it pretty, I mean, this is my aesthetic. It sounds great in here. I think it's important to feel good where you're making music because to me it's so intimate, especially as a songwriter, you know, you want people to feel safe when they're coming in. You want them to feel like, you know, this is an environment that they can be in. Like I had Cia long time ago in my other studio, and she panicked. She never came back because it was so big.

It was overwhelming for her. And a lot of people had that feeling, although it was a really great environment. But this one, you know, I did Dolly here. I've done so many great frigging things here already. And it just has a great vibe. So I'm excited to be here. And it's very inspiring.

You know something? Well, returning to our initial thing about silence in the car. You couldn't let that go. No, no, no, no. It just hit me that. It makes sense. Because most authors I know and screenwriters and songwriters now, they thrive on silence, boredom, isolation, so that the ideas can come to them.

Because, you know, again, we use music as a means to pass time and to not go over our minds on the road and to not deal with vertigo or whatever, you know, to keep us up. But now that makes total sense. Well, also, for me, honestly, it's not even that poetic. It's more that I am constantly, my mind always has music in it. So for some reason, when I can shut down, like when I do dishes, my mind goes blank. When I'm driving, I just go into these meditative states, you know.

And it's the only time I can actually be free in my head. for other things, if there is anything other than music for me. At nighttime, it's hard for me to go to sleep because it's just constant. It's constant music, like to a point where I have to wake up at, you know, four in the morning because I had an idea that just popped up and I, you know, get up. I walk to the other side of the house. You know, I grab my phone and I go to the art room and where the, you know, because I have kids. And I'm like, okay, the mails come there.

And then in the morning, it sounds like, so, sure, sure, nothing. I get nothing from it, but sometimes it sticks. So anyway, so I'm constantly trying to find,

so for some reason, driving, I can keep the windows up and sweat all the way through with no music and be happy, happy as, in my happy place.

We kill each other on the road trip. I don't think I've been riding a car with you. Yeah, my road trip. But when I'm here, I love, I put on the beach, I love listening to Nina Simone. I mean, I just put on anything,

and I come in here and I get inspired because this is where it all comes to life for me. When I leave this area, for some reason, I shut everything else down. Don't know why. It's just the way I've always been. I would think that's kind of a blessing to be able to. Yeah.

So we always start our show with our guests, with the question, where were you born? What city were you born in? I was born in Boston. Boston, Massachusetts. Yeah, Springfield, Massachusetts. Okay. But I say Boston, because it's like a little bit over there.

Okay. It's like there's Boston, and then Springfield's right there. I'm glad you're not wearing your Yankees hat, Steve. I was there for one year. I was one years old, and then we moved to San Diego. So I was raised in San Diego. Okay. So I'm really a California girl, but for some reason, everybody thinks I'm from New York.

Yeah. Guilty. Sorry. Yeah. I think it's my bad ass. attitude. It could be. You would fit in very well.

Yeah, you would fit in. Yeah. Oh, I do. I do. You've never lived in New York? No. Okay, I'm guilty too. I thought New York and had moved to L.A.

Okay. I see. What was your home situation like with your parents and siblings? My mother's Brazilian. My father's from Portugal. And when we, when my family came here, my mom, they got here like I think it was 64, 63. I was born in 65 in Boston,

but I have five brothers and one sister. Two of my brothers still stayed in Brazil. They never came with us. And my mom was basically, my father told my mother that she was not a lot. My mom didn't speak any English. My mom was gorgeous, beautiful modelish, you know, Brazilian woman.

And, you know, hot. Oh, Brazilian, yeah. And my father, basically coveted her and wanted her to be a housewife. And he didn't want her speaking Portuguese to us because we would be admitting we're immigrants. And he was raised that, you know, you can't be an immigrant in this world. They'll treat you differently. And so we were raised, basically. My father changed my brother's names, you know, to be more American. And I was Linda, so it's That was, you know, it was a pretty 70s American.

That was your birth name? That was my birth name. Okay. But then what happened was we basically were learning how to grow up with my mom and teaching her how to speak English. So we would come home. We would read our books to her. She'd read, you know, tried to read with us. She learned all her English pretty much on TV.

What shows? Huh? What shows? She just watched National Geographic, just whatever. I love Lucy were her main shows. She loved news. My mother, my father was an engineer that worked for very big companies for the government. My mother ended up being way more smarter than my father.

And it was pretty amazing to watch. And so that's the household I was brought up. My father, he's passed away now, but he was an alcoholic. My mom was a very outspoken woman with vengeance. you know and and we were on welfare we drank powdered milk you know tuna every single way that you possibly could think of it. Yes. I love that powdered milk.

Spam. I mean, everything. So it was, you know, it was a great, I'm happy for my upbringing, but it was tough. And but I wouldn't change one thing because I love how I grew up to be and, you know, So that was kind of where I'm at. And then I left home at 15 was on dry. I did the typical punk rocker. I was a total punk rocker, mohawk, everything, piercings through my face and, you know,

slitting my wrist, not to kill myself, but just to have the scars. And that's what you did in San Diego. I dropped a lot of acid. I'd done a lot of crystal coke, drinking, panhandling, sleeping in parks. I did it all in it. And not until I was probably 18. did I say, I think I'm supposed to be more than this, and then I got my shit together.

Whoa. All right, that's our episode. How did music enter your life? Well, it always was there. That was the funny thing about music and my relationship with it. I took it for granted, you know, because music, I was always touching something

and making music out of it. Like, if I saw a guitar, I could just, play something and make a melody out of it. If I saw a piano, you know, I would make a melody at it. My father was a musician, but he never shared it with us. So I knew it was there, but it wasn't something that we were brought up with. My father listened to Frank Sinatra, like his big Willie Nelson, Frank Sinatra, George Strait, Johnny Cash.

He was big in the country? He loved country, but he loved jazz. Please tell me there was some Basanova somewhere. Your mom. Yeah. My mother loved Bosanova. All Brazilian music, I don't even know half the shit that she was playing. My sister loved the Beach Boys and Elvis Presley.

My brothers loved the Beatles and then the Zeppelins and all that. And I left musicals. I just was fascinated with musicals. The Jungle Book, Sound of Music, Titty Chit-Tee-Tee-Bing. all of it. I really was like, oh my God, this is amazing. So that was my musical upbringing. But then my brother, he's over there, he was in a band called Chaos in San Diego and he had the long, curly hair, and chicks loved him. He always had girls around. And this was when I was about like 15, 14, and he wore really cool leather pants. And his band was like, you know, everybody. And I was like,

I want to be like him. And they would rehearse in our garage. And then they would leave. And I'd always be listening and he'd come out. It's like, don't touch my guitar. You know, did the brother thing. Of course. And of course, he'd leave and I'd go in there and I would try to by ear figure out what he had just been playing. So that's kind of how I learned how to play music. I just figured it out by ear. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical

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platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right

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I think that even though I encourage parents and everyone to, uh, you know, introduce their kids to music. Now that I know the recurring theme is that the guests that are on our show that thrive the most do so because it's like, it was forbidden.

Don't touch it. So you got to make music almost. Now I'm going to discourage, all parents out there, discourage your kids from there's a total truth to that because even like, it's funny with my son, I

was telling Quest that I bought his Questlove what he call that little set? It's like a... Well, yeah, the breakbeat kit. The break beat kit. For my one-year-old. I appreciate that.

I would have gladly sent it to you. No, I loved it. And because I saw it somewhere and I'm like, oh, shit, I love this thing. And I played it. And I was like, this is amazing. So I got it for my one-year-old son that, you know, he just started walking.

And I was, you know, teaching him. And he loved being on it, but it was obvious. It's just too soon to give him a drum set. But he, I never, like, Like there's drums around, there's pianos around, there's guitars, there's this. I never encourage it, and he just goes to it himself. He discovered the Beatles all on his own at one and a half. What?

Yeah, all on his own. Swear to God, he listens to Penny Lane, Hey Bulldog, Yellow Summer. He watches Yellow Sunmarine. Now, I don't know if anybody out there, go watch Yellow Sunburne. It's a trip. I can't even get through Yellow Summer. and he's obsessed with it. He knows it and he knows all the songs in Spanish as well

because we teach him Spanish. And he loves to dress like Paul McCartney. He wears a jacket and a tie. I just got him out of the tie because it's literally 150 degrees out there. And he wants to be in his jacket and tie. And I feel like a bad parent. Like he's like sweating.

I can't get the jacket off of him, you know. But anyways, on his own, he is doing that. So I don't encourage it. I just make it available if he's interested. He's going to be the third member of Lemon Twigs. Have you said Limin Twigs? No. Limit Twigs is like these two kids.

They're teenagers. Like maybe 16 and 18, but it's like they're straight 1970s. Like Bay City Rollers, Sean Cassidy, like that 1970s. Yeah. Like kids are people two era. That was a deep cut. Only Bill would get that. And Steve, I'm sorry, Steve, you're here.

Bob McAllister, son. Okay, now you have to outdo me with the host thing. It's like short people have no reason to live kind of thing. Right, got it. No, they're just straight 1970s. And it's because, you know, their parents kind of raised them where the timeline was cut off at 1977. So that's all they know is Boston. They know Boston.

They know Kansas. They know, like, those types of ELO, that sort of thing. so well there is this um wonderful wave of um this new generation i guess what were we calling them generation why or whatever yeah but these kids are going to impress a lot of people like when when people like ask me like aren't you bummed out about the music business i'm like no at all not we're just going through the bumps that we go through but it's up to us to acknowledge and um and to see and hear what's coming. And there's a bunch of kids right now

that at 13 and under that listen to Carol King, Hendrix, Zeppelin, because what's going on is people are putting these Spotify playlist, whatever. They don't have to pay for it. But the thing is,

they don't know who the new ones are or the old ones. They don't. They're just listening and they're responding. Yeah. So they hear Zeppelin come on and they're like going right on and then that takes you to, you know,

Greta Van Fleet, which is a new band that's, you know, like Zeppelin, you know, those guys would not have been signed today, you know, if it wasn't for a lot of these playlists that kids are being exposed to that have amazing, amazing music on it. And it's, it's circulating. So, you know, to the music business, people who are feeling fear, it's like, there is no fear. Like, actually, in fact, I think there's going to be a wonderful, beautiful surge of incredible music that's going to be coming out. We just need to, what our job is, is to kind of clean up the foundation, you know, that we're sitting on right now because the business is so messed up and the intentions are so bad that we have to really just kind of make it, we have to clean house a little bit.

So there is something for these kids to come into and not be afraid to sign a record deal or be exposed in some way or whatever. That want to just show up and, and perform. perform and play and... I'm so glad you didn't say, drain this one. I would not train this. Well, do you think in your experiences and you've

experienced the business as an artist, you've experienced the business as a label, you've experienced it as a songwriter, so I'm certain that from the interns to the president of the label, you've had interaction with everything. Do you... Well, I know that the

old modus operandi will eventually erode and be done away with. But do you feel that there could be a new system in which artists can get their fair share and make a living? And still, like, we're both sides are happy where, you know, because I don't, I know that just to make great music. Like, what's the sense of making great music if you're in a forest and no one hears the tree falling, you know, on the other side of the world? So I don't want to have to be a business person and an artist at the same time.

So do you think that there will eventually be a system that will be fair enough so that artists can make a living and make quality music without having to shake their ass in a video or do this hot collabo with this person? and do you think you'll see that in your lifetime? Well, I mean, that's a tricky question, to be honest, for someone like me, because I believe that quality and money don't go hand in hand. You know, like, I don't know. But do you need money to make quality, like, as beautiful as this environment that we're in?

Loretta Lynn didn't. Patsy Klein didn't. I mean, Carol King sat in her room, and I mean, like, I mean, that's where music comes from it. people made incredible music with no money. I mean, it's just who we are. Like, if I don't make any money from here on out, it's not going to stop me from being a performer or a songwriter and doing everything I am and put everything that I am into what I'm doing

because that's just who I am. That's the bar I live with on a daily basis. I have to write. It's my therapy. It's who I am. It's like brushing my teeth. Like it's not a choice. It's just when it happens, I have to be available to respond to it.

What you're saying will, as a business person now, I think there's many outlets that are going to make themselves available. I feel, are we going to make the same money that we did in the 90s? No, we're not. We're not. It's not going to happen. but we got to remember other things that are going on it's what's happening right now is making okay let's just go ahead and just say it

it's turning people who are not talented into celebrities right and they're being able to make a shitload of money based on you know this non-talent a charisma right but let's even take that for a second there's a talent in that There's a talent in being charismatic.

There's a talent into selling yourself. There's a, because you know what those people do? They're on it 24-7. They're banging shit out. They're on their Twitter. Cardi B. You know, they're doing it. They're doing it when they wake up, when they go to sleep.

It's a different talent. I actually like Cardi B. No, you can like her, but that's the clear example. You can like her. No, that's fine. But we all know that she's kind of built in a way. But then there's like, you know, these artists that are like Adele. Everybody said records don't sell.

Adele said, hello for a month. For a month. And she sold groundbreaking $25 million, something like that, for ridiculous amount of money, right? I mean, she made a shitload off of that because I know that she is covered in that area. I get a lot of artists that come in here and go, you know, I hate my album. I didn't want to be like that.

You know, the record company made me do this, blah, blah, blah. I didn't want to make that video. I didn't want to put the glitter on my mouth to make it look like I was, you know, got, you know, shot calm on my face. I didn't want to do any of that. Was that an actual quote? You know.

And, you know, and all I could look at them and go, I'm so sorry, but you're not getting any. sympathy here because you allowed that to happen. You know, you were afraid of losing your record deal, so you did all the things that you're not supposed to do. You fell into that trap. So do I, to your question, that's how I said, it's a difficult one, because I believe when artists step into their power, money will come. I believe any time we step into our power, that's a good quote. everything that is due to us will come to us. What is rightfully ours will be ours

when we step into our power. So that is the answer to that question. Right now, it is my job, your job, all of our job here to help people step into their power. All right. That's a wrap. How many songs do you reckon you okay I won't say like half completed songs or half demos because I'm certain that you know even if you have an idea right now you'll just excuse yourself and how many your iPhone outside on a weekly basis how many songs do you think you complete right well it depends on if I'm writing with somebody so basically right now I'm in the studio with Natasha Bettingfield in probably 14 days

we wrote 13 songs. And then that was me concentrating on just the songs. Now, sometimes I'll just, you know, with her, I did something different. Like, I really wanted to get the body of songs down. And so I didn't focus on any production because I wanted to do something different with her this time. And a lot of people know Natasha Benningfield

for, you know, pocket full of sunshine and unwritten. And there's a cleanness there about her. But she, I mean, there's a little Michael in her. I mean, she hits this tone that sounds like friggin Michael Jackson when he was younger. And she's got a grit and a style and she's wild and she's political and she's dark and she's funny

and she's light, you know. So anyway, so I just wanted to focus on the song. So I just focused on the songs and didn't get into production. So we were, you know, like the other day, yesterday, I wasn't playing on writing a song and we did. So it depends on the energy that's moving through me, and the artist. Now, I've been with some artists

that I've been with them for three days and I keep switching because I can't get one song written with them and then finally, I always allow at least two to three days. Sometimes that's long, but if I don't write a song with somebody within the first three hours, the chemistry is not there.

I'll say, listen, I think you're amazing. You know who would be really great with you and then I'll recommend somebody else and they look at me like... You curve them? Yeah. Like, they're like, well, I want to work with you. And I said, I do too, but it's, I like you, but that doesn't mean we're going to create.

You know, that's how I roll, you know. Do artists prefer that immersive experience in creating with you? Because there are some times where I feel as though, like I'll have a brilliant idea and I'll execute it and go in the studio by myself and then I'll present it. and then they'll be like, nah, I'm cool on it. And it's almost like... They feel left out?

Well, yeah, like, I hate to say this on the air. So that's how I fool, that's how I fool Erica. Like, Erica is the queen of no when it's like, yo,

he's just dope, right? And then she'll want to be part of the creative process. So then I got a Jedi mind-trigger. And then I'll present the same idea like a month later. Right. Right. And then it's like,

it's 82,000. You know what I mean? It's, and then it's like, yeah, see, it's but it's almost like, I feel like

with your position it's harder because it's much more in the song writer. Like you borderline out to be the therapist, sometimes the babysitter. Like if they have ADD,

you got to give them the focus and you have to be life coach. So it's what is the most comfortable environment that you're in in songwriting? Like do you have to sit with that person in real time?

Is music even involved? Like do you even just deal with words? And like Smokey Robinson said that half the songs he wrote, he starts out with poetry. Like not even thinking of a melody. It's just like do these words make sense? And once he feels he has something, then it's like

what music can I dress around this? So what is your actual like preferred process of songwriting? I don't have one. Everything comes at the same time, first of all. So for me, if I pick up a guitar, I'll basically come up with the melody and some kind of lyric right off the top.

For me, I have to be open to the song presenting itself and just catch it. You know, how sometimes we ignore, Or, oh, I, um, you know. An actual lyric or is it like, I don't know, I'll just, I mumble. No, it's just, I mumble and then it turns into song. So all my songs come from that.

The melody, the music, the lyrics all kind of start showing up at the same time. And I'll just jam it. But with, um, so for me, when I'm here, that's how I roll. Um, when I'm with an artist, I love working with, um, people. I could write a song with you guys right now, just as comfortable as I could with myself. I love being inspired. I'm one of those people that if we all sat here and we were like, okay, let's write a song.

You were on your phone. You're drinking coffee. You fell asleep. You're daydreaming and you're just looking at gear. And I sat here and did it. You know, I did all the music and wrote it. I would still make that a collaboration because it's the energy and the inspiration of It's so sweet of you.

You know, it's not sweet. It's just the way it is because to me, it's a series of events and energies and things that just bring us to where we are right now. And that's how I look at life in general and songwriting. So to me, I can write anywhere. You can put me in any place and I will write a song. What's the largest number of people collaboration situation that you've been in to write a song? the only time I've ever done something to that

at that level is you know jamming with a band you know where I've had my band here and it's like one two three four five six seven people maybe if that and we're just sitting in their jam and I just sometimes I just got to break out it's just like guys you know I feel the guys are just like they're lost in the song they can't get there

so I'll come in and I'll go okay let's jam out you know and then I'll pick up the guitar and I'll start doing something and we'll start doing things and then we'll write a song. Now, you know... You're always in the alpha situation? I'm always the alpha, yeah. Okay, that's what I wanted to know. Like, who decides who's going to be, quote, the bad guy or the coach?

Yeah, no, I'm always that. I don't, it's, to me, it's, I'm just in the more powerful position because I'm very confident. I'm not choosing that. It's just who I am. And people, you're only as powerful as the people around you. So if people are letting you take, power then I'm the alpha you know that's just the way that works works in the the wolf pack you know it's

like they they want people want to be led they want to feel like somebody's got control or something that's why we get in an airplane and we feel that guy is the guy that's going to take us to safety and I don't fucking know who that guy is that's going to who the fuck but we automatically just go into this trusting situation he's got it you know so I try to make that available because that's just who I am, but I want people to feel safe and secure in their environment. And I only whip out bulldog for business. You know, I'm a total, I am an assassin.

When it comes from my artist, I manage artists, and I am a killer. I go in there because my artist is my number one priority. I don't give a fuck about any of you. My artists, I need to make sure that they're taken care of, and I become an assassin. I'm a gunslinger. I go left field, I fuck shit up, I got people scared of me, but I'm also really sweet.

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podcasts. Is your writing process different for those people who you've been working with for so long? Like, it's the, you know, since you know them on a whole different level for like the pinks and the Christina's and the well you know I mean we all know like there's people who think they're writers and they think they're producers

you know so you have to you know like what you said you have to Jedi mind trick them you know and so I have how long is it take for you to know who you're dealing with if it's a blind situation like do you start with

dinner first do you meet off campus first to see who you're dealing with or is it just like Clyde Davis is like look I got this new artist and come to New York and meet them yeah no I don't do that I'll meet people but I don't I rarely it's a rare occasion I'll just say okay to somebody

that I don't care if it's Beyonce or some new person I need to sit with you first just chat and see if we're a match because it is important to me I'm not again I have to feel creative in the situation. Otherwise, if I'm not and I'm only doing it for the namesake or whatever, it just doesn't, it doesn't fit in my soul properly. Okay, so I got to ask, at the height of misunderstood mania, what came first?

Misunderstood or strip? Misunderstood. That was first? Yeah. Okay, so let's just say in the sort of the cyclone of where, you know, get this party started. It's like now playing in stadiums and whatnot. What can you tell us a name that like came to you like, okay, I want something you had to curve them and be like, we're not a match.

It's not going to work. Like a failed collabo that didn't happen. or that you passed on. Yeah, there's many. Can you name one? Can you name one? Listen, one of my pride things that I love about myself is that I'm not a kiss and teller. All right.

I respect that. But mind you, I'll tell you this. I have, I record everything. So when you walk into my studio, it's rolling. Let me just tell you this. I have shit on people that on my fucking in my, that would shock

this, you know, fucking industry. I mean, the confessions, the things. I mean, I have a, maybe when I'm like, line on my dead set. You know, right, right, right. Maybe I might go, okay, and unleash these, you know, tapes, who knows, maybe. But I, but what I love about

who I've become is that, you know, my experiences are my experiences and nobody's going to ever experience anything the way I do or you do or we do, right? But I just know right off the top, I can know in five minutes. I'm extremely, I'm sensitive. I'm all in heart. I'm rarely in my head unless I need to be, but I'm all in my heart to a point where it's a fault for me. Like it becomes a weakness because I'm so writing in my heart all the time that I'm over the top honest. I've hurt people, not meaning, but just because my honesty has hurt people, you know? How do you, if you care for someone, will you be severely blunt with them? Even if I don't care about them, I'll be severely blunt.

Like it's, to me, it's our duty as human beings to be, like, for instance, yesterday, so there's a, girl on Twitter name Scarlet B, her name Savano. Anyway, she kept twittering me songs. Like Linda Perry, I want your attention, I want your attention, and I follow and I watch

and I listen. You know? You do? I do. And so this girl sent me a version of What's Up and she changed all the words to basically say something to the extent, please notice me.

I'm a Vietnam vet. Not Vietnam, a vet. and, you know, all her, she put all her struggles in it. Oh. I just want you to hear me. I'm coming for you. Where are you? You know, whatever.

So it was pretty endearing. I tweeted back and said, okay, kid, I'm going to give you a shot. So I had my people reach out to her. We flew her here. She lives in Virginia. We flew her and her mom out here. And I said, okay, I'm going to give you a shot. You're going to do a showcase for my label.

And so yesterday she did a show. showcase last night in front of the label. And there was a couple songs that are good, a couple songs are in bed, but it was my, what would I be if I brought this girl all the way here? And I didn't say, these are the issues that I'm hearing in your material.

Because you can get that on the fucking voice, American Idol, and all that crap. You know, those people, those kids, those kids walk away with no information at all. they walk away with nothing even the winners walk away with nothing you know maybe the earlier days American Idol there were people

but that period is gone but now name me one voice winner I know Adam Levine and Christina and Gwen's records well no just no I know the judges I know the judges

I'm saying I just know the judges right where where what they benefit it yeah they benefit you know that's what's going on American Idol right now all that. But when did they stop and when did Simon Cowell or whatever say, you know what? There's something here, but this is what I would do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's my duty as a person in the music business. You know, like people do think that I do know something

whether it's the, if it's right or not, I don't know. I just have my own opinions. And again, they're my opinions. But so I don't know this girl. But I don't know this girl. But I, I had to tell her, sidebarred her, without everybody else around in that room. And I said, listen, this song I really like. It needs a chorus. But here, I think, I don't know who you're being in this song. And she's like, well, I really wanted to be like Halsey. And I'm like, why don't you just be you?

You know, why are you being Halsey? Be you. And I don't like this. So anyway, so she's going home today with some valuable information. I, you know, this experience is going to change your life. And more so, I wanted it to change everybody else's that was experiencing this good gesture. Because that's what we need to do.

We need to reach out and extend a good gesture. We need to help people. We need to give them the right information because nobody, nobody is giving these kids the right information. Where's our fucking political revolution that was supposed to happen with punk rock? Where are the Ramones? They were supposed to show up.

Panny Smith was supposed to show up during this whole fucking thing. Where the fuck did it go? Natalie Mines, Dixie Chicks. Yeah. When she got shut down in 2003. I know. Motherfugs got quacks. Everybody shut up.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's fear. Lose. They don't want to lose. Exactly. Bill Withers didn't have anything to lose because he was, you know, everyday man. But that is exactly my point.

It's like, you know, what are we then? If we're not standing for what we can. came in here for. So when you go back to your question about, are we going to make money? It's like, who fucking cares? I'm in it, man. I'm in it to be a soldier and a pawn.

I'll be a fucking pawn in this music business because if I have to sacrifice myself for the business to win, that's what I'm in it for. So I don't care about the money. Is the money great? Yes. Absolutely.

I still think that one should be able to make a living. I'm fine with making a living. I think we are. I think we are, man. I think we are. I think we're going to be okay. Maybe Hype Williams videos have gasmed me up too much.

Yeah, that shit is over. That's another. You know what? Let me tell you this. We should have never been making $300,000, $500,000 videos, okay? The 90s is what screwed everything up. The 90s got greedy. Oh my God, all this money and everybody wanted more and more and the labels wanted more because

CDs for $17.99. You know what I mean? In 1799 for CD, kids were being ripped off. You know what they did? They said, fuck you. They started their own revolution and started fucking putting out all those songs and records out online saying, here you go. It's here for free.

You know, because we can't afford 1999 for a crappy album. So remember that. Not only were they spending 1990 and 20 bucks for a record, they're spending 20 bucks for crap. Yeah. You know, there's maybe one or two good songs on there, but the rest was fucking filler and shit. Stop selling singles. So you couldn't get this, the one song.

You wanted to buy the whole album and suffer through, you know, 78 minutes of other crap just to get to the two minutes you wanted. Yeah. So I think it's going to be okay. I think we just have to readdress our intentions. You know, and I think we can make a living. And I think we can make a really good living. And I think there's going to be other resources that are going to start happening.

There's a lot of people doing, you probably know, a lot of different things are coming up. there's just going to be a lot of different ways for distribution and reaching out to your fans and honestly there's going to be a lot of we have to get rid of a lot do you understand there's a lot of

there's a lot of unnecessary music out there that we have to get through there I don't even think you're fighting as an artist you're not really even fighting for money you're fighting for attention yeah it's not even about the attention is kind of the great currency

now, you know what you was saying earlier with artists who have that charisma and know how to sell it. I mean, I've had straight up labels, like my homies that work at labels straight up tell me before even looking to sign an artist, they go and look at their Instagram followers. Oh, yeah, that's first.

Like they look at how many followers you got on Insta, how many, what's your Twitter looking like? Because they're lazy. Labels are fucking lazy. They want everybody to do they don't want a demo. They don't break nobody no more. They don't break because they don't know how to. They don't break them because they don't nobody in the music business is actually running the music business. Nobody's a developing artist anymore.

You have a, you know, this guy that's the bazillionaire that bought Atlantic because he wanted to be on a yacht with all these, you know, people and go to parties. It's like he knows nothing about the business. And then you leave it to these guys that are just holding on their job is just to not say yes right now. Their job, they're saving their jobs by not saying yes. Yes. You know?

But not for nothing. That's why it seems like. like when you look at your catalog, whether it was conscious or unconscious, you definitely have a somewhat of an eligibility requirement for, I want to say, the ladies at very least that you work with. Well, because the ladies are most fucked up and emotional. They need me, you know. And the ones that you work with, though, still have a, they got a certain foundation of strength to them, you know what I mean? Like all of them. Yeah. When you look at it. So, well, you know,

I think that with women, we're just emotional. We're emotional. We're emotional. And, you know, And we get sensitive and I think that, you know, I am always asked, like, why aren't there more women producers or engineers? And I think, one, it's a bitch, man, to, you know, to be turned down because you're a woman, you know, and or not, no, like, I've turned down women, you know, engineers. I don't want to engineer. I love engineering. I love producing, but I don't want to do it anymore, you know, because engineering, I start geeking out, you know, I start fucking moving. I can spend like a whole fucking day. I have hundreds of snares

and I will go through all of them to get the right sound because I don't, well, why don't you just tune that one down? Are you kidding me? It sounds great like this. I'm not tuning down my, I have a... Do you know John Brian? Yeah.

My motherfucker spent like three hours on like one snare. But you know what? It's like because you don't want to touch the character of the one. So anyway, so anyway, as you can see, I can go on this conversation. for hours. So, but I think that sometimes what's going on with women is maybe they don't want to deal with it. Maybe they don't, they see it as a losing battle already. Maybe they're happy being on their computers at home and not dealing with a room full of, you know, guys. Maybe the guys won't

even hire them. You know, I like to be up. I am, I'm a lifer. I'm a lifer in this business. I don't clock in nine to five. I am a fucking lifer and I don't believe there's many women that are lifers. You know, because there's other things that women want to do. They want to have, they, I have a son, but I'm figuring it out, you know, but I'm kind of more macho. You know, I have a more man perspective. Plus you have resources.

Like, let's not forget. I do have resources, but the girls, but, you know, I had to fight for my resources. I was, when I was in four non blondes, I'll give you a great example. when I was in Four Non Blondes, and we're recording that album, which I fucking hate, you know, because sonically, I don't know what it is. I know what it is now, but I didn't know what it was then. You know, I had no experience of it being in a studio. And so I got, you know, I'm listening to my, you know, this, he gives me this 53 Vox, uh, 53 Vox, um, Les Paul to go through the 63 Vox amp and I'm in the room and I'm hearing it. I'm like, oh, man, that is fat. And then I go into the, the, the, the, control room and it sounds like this and I didn't know he was compressing it queuing out everything and putting reverb on it I didn't know that you know so every time I'd question him like why does it sound so great out here but when I come in here it sounds so teeny and so far away Linda you know with his accent you know who produced it David Tickle

can't you just you know just just just be a singer you know and go in there and just do whatever And so I heard that fucking just go be a singer bullshit way too many times. And then when he got to What's Up, the song that I wrote, when it got to in his little hands, it had a marching drum. He wanted me to change all the lyrics because it didn't make sense to him for me to repeat certain lines. There was a guitar solo. It sounded fucking bad. He changed my strum.

I went to Tom Wally at Interscope Records. I said, I am not fucking releasing this song. And he's like, well, we're all happy with it. I'm like, I'm not happy with it. So we had one reel a tape. We had tape back then. So we had one reel of tape. I called up the plant studios in San Francisco and I said, hey, man, can you do me a solid?

We have no money. We had no money. We couldn't afford anything. And I said, will you do me a solid? Let us come in and I need to reproduce this song. He's like, of course, dude, for you, I'll do that. You know, just put us a thanks on the record. I'm like, done.

So we go in there. I've never produced anything. I dialed with the engineer, dialed up the sounds, got everything, got everything, put it back to the arrangement, put on our tape. We had to choose because you only have room for three.

So we had to kind of make commitments and go, okay, let's just keep this, let's go over that one. So we are on our last take. David Tickle comes walking in at like 2 o'clock in the morning. We're laying it down. That's it.

It was live. And then we added some background vocals. That was it. and then we mixed it that night and then it made it, mastered it the next day and it was on the record. That is the version that sold 7 million records

that's got over, you know, 2 billion fucking streams or whatever on YouTube. And that motherfucker, when I said, I want producer credit on that, they all said no to me. Can't you fucking be a singer? And I, from that day on,

I said, fuck you, I'm going to be more than a singer, bitch. I'm going to fucking learn how to do this shit. And that's what I did. I started buying equipment and I taught myself. That was my motivation. And then I did. I just went for it. I didn't, it was, no was not an exception.

And I got fired from misunderstood, just to let you know this a little story. Nobody knows this. I'm going to get a doozy. So I wrote, get the party started in like 15 minutes because I was such an analog girl. I wanted to know what that sound was on the radio that I was hearing on MTV. So I called up a friend. I'm like, what is that thing on MTV right now

or all the sounds? Oh, it's an MPC. It's a Triton and it's a roll-in expansion cards, you know? And I'm like, okay, so I went and bought all that. I set it all up. I had D-A-88. And then I set it up. And then I started just playing,

and then that's what I wrote out of just testing all this gear. I wrote, Get the Party. started, then put some live live wah-wah, bass, you know, whatever. And then this girl calls me up. Lisa's message says I want to, you know, are you Linda Perry? I want to blah, blah, blah, write a song with you.

So I go and meet her and then I had written get the party started. I play it for her. She's like, that's my first single, plays at L.A. Read, right? Anyways, so cut to, we were doing it here when I was still living here. I had a little studio in that room. And so I just start demoing them really good, right? and just whatever.

And then she, it was very different. So L.A. Reed came in and he was like, you know, this is very different. We're going to lose Alicia's,

Pink's audience because I just feel like this is just two left field. And I said, you know what? How many? What did she sell? He's like,

well, she's got like, you know, almost two million, you know, she sold two million records. I'm like, you're going to lose those 10 and you're going to gain 10.

I mean, you're going to lose those two you're going to gain 10. And then I got fired because I was two left field. Yes, this is the beautiful part. You're going to fucking love me for this one. I don't know. I got fired.

Okay? So they fired me. And I'm like, I'm 10 songs in. I'm the bulk of the album, right? And they fire me. So I say, no. You know what? You guys never hired me.

You can't fire me because you never hired me. So I went back into the studio with Dave Pinsato. I finished the productions, had him mix it, and then I invoiced them, gave them the fucking record, and then they took it. So they never hired me. They fired me,

and then they never rehired me. Don't you all right? They were like, no, this is when Pink was on her, There You go, and she was doing BETT Awards and Soul Train Awards.

No, we thought she was a light-skinned black woman for the L. We thought pink was light-skinned for a summer. She was a silly jar. It was a silly jar. But isn't that a great story? He did not like me at all because I was in his face and just, you know, I was just, I remember. You know what I mean? It was really funny.

But he wanted to fire my ass. But Dallas Austin wasn't losing his job. No. You know, but they quickly were ready to fire me because I was too aggressive, you know, and I called them out. And I was like, and you know what she did? She sold 12 million records. We know. In that moment, did you see the more misogyny and the, uh,

R&B area than what you're used to. I'm just curious. No, because, you know what, I don't look for those things. You know, this is where I'm naive and dumb. You know, like, I don't look for problems and I just find solutions. Okay, okay. You know? Speak on it.

That's it. I find solutions. I don't dwell in things. I just find my way around it. This is my journey, man. Sometimes you just notice. It can be really loud. Yeah.

I mean, there was, you know what? more so not really in that because at you know I actually got very embraced in in that you know whole you know everybody at enterprise you know enterprise you know enterprise studios yeah so everybody embraced me there I mean there is all walks going on in there and they loved me embrace me I and then had you know people like Ron Fair was coming in Kay I want you to come listen to this uh you know my uh you know song where we just redid free fall and it took like three weeks to do it, and I had this big orchestra and all this stuff,

and, you know, and I spent like a hundred million dollars recording this. Fuckin our budget. Dude, he fucking plays it to me, and I'm all, you took three weeks to do this, and you spent probably, I said, Ron, you should be ashamed of yourself. You know how much, she's paying for that. And I looked at Maya, I go, you're paying for that. So the three weeks that he just spent,

the big strings that suck you're paying for that and probably still pain for it oh my god I didn't know how to filter myself and it just came out because I was so angry but it's the truth

but what did her face say when you did that? She was I think embarrassed and she knew and it did nothing it was the most I mean and I'm a petty fan you know and it's like

don't do a cover and fucking do a bad version of it you know just don't do it if you're going to do a bad version of cover here to all you little kitty winkies out there. If you're going to do a cover, do your cover of it. Don't do.

Ron Fares cover. Don't do Ron Farr's cover. Just don't do the artist's cover. Just do a different version of it. Make it you. Don't make it a version of them and then on top of it, a bad version of it. They used to teach that on American Idol. Yeah.

Used to. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked

doubt about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell? Elders George Bush got to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey. from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Lespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I'm glad you said what you said about the reality shows because the thing is that when you're saying that, you know, you're here today and gone before you got there, for me, it's like this whole idea of we're going to create gods in 15 weeks, in 15 week episode increments.

So one, it's unproven, but it's almost like the people that we idolize put decades, decades into their craft. Like, you know, Aretha Franklin started at six. Singing in church, singing in church, singing in church, singing in church, till she was 19 before she even got in front of a microphone. And it's almost like, do you even think that we have the patience? I mean, as long as we have the suits at these labels.

And, you know, the, you know, it's like more power to Simon Cowell for creating these platforms, but I don't know if it's doing us more harm than it is helping the situation. And so it's like for you, do you think that we can even find and cultivate talent that at least had 15 years of experience and work before they even see a microphone?

I don't think that, I think there's just a different way. Like, are we going to get the 15 years? No. Do you think is necessary? I do. I do feel that, you know, right now you have kids sitting on YouTube. They do covers, right?

Or they write a song. They go on their YouTube. They record it. They put it out there in the world with Twitter or socials, whatever. They get instant reaction, right? They get instant feedback. They think that is the real world right there. Okay. So then they get plucked out of the system. And then they're put into these, you know, a studio.

Good example is that little Grace Vanderval, right? So Grace Vanderval, she was the girl that was 13 and played ukulele on America's Got Talent. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this was funny. So she's 13, all right? She doesn't get, you know, people go crazier because she's got a really, beautiful, soulful voice. She writes this really great song. So I get a call like a year later. And it's her management or the label. And they're like, hey, I'm wondering if you would have any interest to meet Grace. Vandrol, you know, we're in the studio and we're having some problems. And, you know, she's been in there with Farrell and blah, blah, blah, blah, and naming all these big names. And yeah, we're just, I guess we're just not getting where we want to go. And I said, well, I can go ahead and guess what your problem is, is she's 14, and you stuck her in a studio with

Pharrell Williams. Who does that? Right. Who does that? I mean, the girl has no life. She's like, she doesn't, she went on American, America's Got Talent to, in a studio with the, feral, she's had no time to understand who she is, who she's going to be. So when that happened, I had met a 12-year-old, and from my, my wife is Sarah Gilbert, and

she has this really great friend, Slea Moon Fry, that was Punky Bruce. She's amazing. So Sleet calls me up. She's like, I have this friend, and she's the sweetest person. I have this friend, and she's got a daughter, and she thinks the daughter's got talent, but doesn't know, and is wondering if you could check her out and just see. They're just curious. So I'm like, for you, Salae, anything. So I, you know, a week later, I go to her house, and there's the kid, and big, boss. bottle cap glasses and braces. I mean, I mean, it was like there was four railroad tracks in there, you know, and a total dork.

You could tell she's a total brain, talked a mile a minute, and I'm like going, okay, I'm to be open to this. And she sits down, and I don't even know if it was a beginning. There was no end, but it sounds like there was a middle, right? So she plays this middle of a song and then just stops like, you know, after a minute and a half, and but she had this soulful voice. So they're like, well, what do you think? I said, I can't tell right now, but I'll tell you what.

Write five songs and call me in two months. So I gave my number. She wrote six songs and called me exactly two months to the day. And then she came here, played me the six songs that she wrote. I put a little microphone up at the piano just to record them. and I was in there crying and I came in crying, you know, and I said I was never this deep at fucking 12, you know? Oh yeah, you did say she was 12.

Yeah. Okay. So then I said, okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to record this for real for you, like just piano, just you sitting at your piano and singing the songs, but let's do a better version. So come back in three weeks and I have like three days available for you, right? She comes back in three weeks with 12 songs. Wow.

Wow. Whoa. Yeah. Wow. And so then I'm like, holy fuck. And I'm not kidding you. Good songs. I'm telling you, I have a little fucking Carol King right now. So she's like, what are we going to do?

So I recorded, videoed everything. We did 13 songs in 13 days. Just her at the piano recording her vocal. And that's it. If I wanted a kick drum, I made her play it. I made her go. If I wanted bass, I gave her a bass, gave her the song, said, go home, learn how to play the bass.

and come back, because no one, not me, I never touched her songs, except for raised the key maybe and sped it up or slowed it down. But if something needed to be played, I made her play it. You know, acoustic guitar. She never played bass, never played acoustic guitar.

Anyway, so the moral of this story is she's 14 now, and I'm still mentoring her, and this kid is incredible, and then she got, we let her play at this, we went, we took the company and all the artists to Shiat Day, which is an advertisement company, and we are doing this, you know, we're not going to wait for you to come to us, we're

going to go to you kind of thing, so we did a showcase with all our artists. Guess who they picked? Willa. Her name's Willa Am I. They picked her for this big campaign for QuickBooks, and we had to do this version of harder, faster, better, stronger, harder faster but i mean it was the weirdest song they wanted organic and so we did it number one shazam song they paid for a radio tour for her you know and but i'm still holding back i'm still not letting her

you know doing them still like she's got to learn you know and you've signed to the label since yes okay okay but after that it was like she wanted it and i and i was like i got to see i got to understand what i'm dealing with yeah i can't put you out there kid and she's like i want to it, I want it. But she looks like she's like maybe 18 or 19, her voice and the way she writes songs. So I play Jimmy Iveen, the song that she wrote, before Jimmy, you know, took off. I play him the song, Scars that she wrote. And he, you know, I've known Jimmy a very long time, and I've never had this experience with him. He was just like lit up and he turns around and he looks at me. He's like, you know what you got? And I'm all at what. And he's like,

you got the cool Taylor Swift. He's like, congratulations. Finally. But it's like, but the thing is she's been in playing with band. She knows what a rehearsal room is. She knows how to play in front of five people. Now she's going to do this radio show in Vegas, you know, with Jewel.

And I mean, it's like I've been baby stepping her all the way and not letting it get too far. So it's out of her hands. It's only. moving this fast because she wants it. But she's capable of handling. But I'm still holding it back. She's still 14. But anyways, that's my point.

So you know what I did with her? I nurtured her. I got her to a point so she understood what it was like to write songs and being in a rehearsal room, you know, did interviews, did fake interviews, been, you know, photowing her, you know, getting, following her and helping her, you know, understand who she is. is and this girl knows who she is. So the answer, you're fucking long-winded. I'm so excited.

No, this is what it's for. Is yes, we need to bring back development. Yes. It's called development. Where do you have the patience for that? Because now I almost feel like of all the episodes we've done, this is the episode I've been waiting for it. Because I have no patience whatsoever to,

put in the work to develop people, to listen to people, to like all the things. 19 jobs. So, well, no, no, no. But part of me, like, not really want to, I just to babysit. And you know the motherfuckers. I got to babysit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

Yeah, yeah. So. Right. And that's the thing. It's just like it takes, you really have to care as a person. And I know you're like, I'm blunt. I'm honest with you. whatever, but it's like

you obviously you care. Where is it? How did you not even after the the rise of the fast rise of four non-blinds and you guys selling seven

million units of that album like how did you not between 95 and when Pink calls you 99? Would you say? like how are you not bitter or angry about the situation of what happened in between that time that led you to where you are now where you're giving back and you're patient and you know

how to coach people teach us how to care about people shut up steve i'm hearing about this whole empathy thing and i just don't well let me tell you this. So when you say I believe when you are honest, you do care. Like you care enough. You know, most people don't care so they won't be

honest because being honest takes energy. So just remember it that way. We do care when we're talking and we're being honest. Wait, can I add something? In our part of the on our side of the tracks. Okay. Honestly gets you shot.

Not necessarily. Well, okay, in this, dog, if, okay, take the Mr. Magic, Karas won situation of 86. Now, let's just take it to, let's go to 1999. Like, you know, you say something, a cat will feel a certain way. It's almost like, I feel, when people come to me, like, yo, yo, guys, before you real quick. It's almost like, I don't, I don't think you want my honest opinion. I think you want a cosine. Yeah.

Like, you want me to champion you. Right, but that's an honesty right there. But I think that what I would hope that we learn. It's turned me off. Like, I can say that maybe six people in my entire 25 years, six people I've actually just said, okay, I feel something here. I'll listen to it. And it's changed my life. Like his band and five other people.

and but now I'm thinking about wow those those thousand other like John Legend is one of those people is like I gave y'all a chance and y'all didn't hear me but I digress I think he didn't come up to me he might have went to Tariq but I'm saying like you're willing to jump in the pool and you're willing to to get dirty with them well I have a mission I'm on a mission like to me. What is your mission? My mission is I love music and everything that falls under it. It is my job and duty as one of these people in this business to protect it. You know, so honesty to me is protecting the, it's, you know, the integrity of music and helping bring out more in people and raising the bar. I mean, come on, guys. I mean, let's just all face it. The bar is so fucking.

low, a fucking ant can't crawl under it right now. You know, it's like, but there's great stuff. But, you know, I'm just talking about in general, there's a low bar here. There's no entry level. Like, there's no, ain't no classes. Yeah. Well, like with the music industry, like, it accepts all kinds. And so there's no kind of regimen or anything that you have to follow.

Like with you, like, just that story you were telling about how you developed your artist and was like, yo, go write five songs, go write six songs. That is something that is totally foreign in, on our side of the world with hip, pop because hip hop is automatically just seen as something that you can just jump in. Disposable. Well, I think though, if we

so for me, the patience, I didn't have a lot of patience in For and on Blondes. I learned patience. I learned a lot. You know, as much as I could say that, you know, that experience, I didn't like the album, you know, and...

You personally didn't like the album? I didn't like, no. I probably listened to the album maybe three or four times. It was a hard album to live. listened to because it's not it didn't reflect who I was and um writing or the production the production and just yeah the sound was just again I didn't know but I was just drawn to sound it didn't sound like zeppelin and it didn't sound like the Beatles it sounded like this washed down kind of thin kind of weirdness you know going in in your mind what did you want that album to be before you hit

note number one you know was this going to be your houses of the whole No, I didn't, I wasn't experienced something. This was the first band I've ever been in. Like, when I was in San Francisco, I played acoustic. It was solo. It was Linda Perry's solo act, and I was kind of developing a name around San Francisco as this girl you call that could get up on stage, and I was powerful. You know, I was like small and got up on it.

And people liked having just a, you know, acoustic act jump up on stage because you didn't have to do all the changeovers, you know? So I would jump up and I started getting a really big name, and that's how this band found me. They were already a band and they asked me to join. So when I joined the band, you know, I was just, it seemed fun and I didn't really have any intention except for I just knew earlier on in my life I was going to be somebody, whether that's a tennis player, police officer, or whatever, I was going to be somebody that people were going to know. And so that's all I geared my life, my journey was always on that. I'm going to be somebody. So when,

Four and on Blonde's happened, I just quickly figured out like, oh, these are the things I don't like. These are, you know, like I didn't like the band constantly being upset at me because I was getting more attention than they were. And I would say, well, why don't you guys fucking, you know, write a song at three o'clock in the morning like I'm doing? And then you can have songwriting because they were mad that I wouldn't give them songwriting credit on songs that I was writing. I'm like, I'm not. You didn't write it. I didn't write that shit. Not?

You know, so I was kind of a dick, you know, in For Non Blonde's. I was angry all the time. I didn't like being told what to do. I wanted to perform when I wanted. I was very rebellious, you know. And, you know, I've walked out many situations that I should not have, you know, done. And finally, I got to a point on the second record and said, I can't do it. I had written all these great songs that were more like The Wall, you know, Pink Floyd the Wall.

and it was very, you know, it was deep. It was, it just filled my soul, you know, and my voice was lower. I was like just brooding and unhappy and depressed, and, but it was beautiful to me, you know. And they were like, uh, can you, where's the hit? Can you guys, can you write something a little more like our old album, our last record? And I said, fuck you, no, I can't, you know, and then I went to the label and said, please let me out. So eventually, out of being a little crazy to Tom Wally,

Tom Wally let me out of the deal. You pulled a Pinkerton. What do you call that? That's a Pinkerton. That's a Weezer. That's a Weezer Pinkerton right there. Yeah, I pulled a good one on him, and, you know, it was pretty funny. But so the patients came through that, those years.

you know, I learned what I didn't like about being in fore non-blons. I learned what I did like. I learned that I was way more powerful as a collaborator and someone who could be patient with people and that the girl that was not collaborating, that had the ego that was just, you know, throwing everything down and not being patient was the weaker at me. So I just jumped into my power. So that space and time allowed me to learn a little bit about who I was and what I was capable of doing. So the universe then sent me pink and everything that followed.

2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness. fitness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come off. on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. They're finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this. platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a year. years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct? I doctored the test once.

It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Maranini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So were you thrown off when she called you? You said she calls you out the blue?

Yeah, she left me a man. message. I got this message because my girlfriend at the time was her makeup artist or her friend was her makeup artist. So she just left me a message, you know, is this Linda Perry? My name's Pink and I want to write a song with you or you sing on my album and if you don't call me back, I'm going to come stalk you. If I got your number, I can find your address, you know, something crazy like that. So obviously that album changed your life and you're just like. And it changed mine, you know, and it really, it made me a collaborator. And then, you know, from then, is, you know, that was the downfall because immediately after that,

I ran into Christina Aguilera in a club, and Dallas Austin just played, like he was trying to impress her with what he did on Pink's record, but instead it, every time she picked a song, who did that one? He was like, that's Linda Perry. Who did that one? Linda Perry, so it was pretty funny that, so I, you know, I saw her sitting alone, first of all,

that was kind of strange. She was alone. Friends were in a bodyguard right in front, and she waved, you know, I came as, hey, you know, I met her once. And she's like, you know, let her in. And so I said, how you doing? She's like, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, I love the stuff that you did with Pink.

I'm like, oh, great. I go, I heard you're working on an album. And she's like, yeah, I go, hey, if I were you, I would really use that darkness, that depression that you got going on because it probably, listen, everybody knows that you can sing, but no one knows that you actually can feel what you're singing, and it really will come in to benefit you, your, your, your, your, sadness and she's just like I mean and then I was like oh I see you later and then I started leaving and then my friend he's like what did you just say to Christina Aguilera I'm like why and he's like because

she's watching you and her mouth is on the ground and I'm like well I just told her that people want to you know and then she called me a week later you know and that obviously it was not my intention I was just being honest but you know so theirs were for me and then I love Christina we collaborated and done some incredible things together, but I call her on her stuff all the time. How did you manage to get that performance of beautiful out of her? Because I know that what you managed to do for that song, like I know that, you know, from what I know of Christina.

Oh, you were on that album too. I forgot. Yeah, yeah. I forgot I was on that album to you. I forgot I was on that album, too. You remember. Scott Stor's joining. All right. Yeah. Yeah. That was a good one. Here's my thing. My thing is that the thing that I'm most impressed about that song is the fact that you took her defense and her shield away. Because I feel like her flexing, her going from zero to 60 on the automobile.

Like instantly, the fact that you took all that away and just left her vulnerable. At least that was my impression in hearing. Beautiful. how were you able to keep the record people at bay and keep Christina's management at bay and Christina herself at bay and pull that performance out of her

because I would have instantly thought hearing the song okay it's Grammy time that's her diva moment you know gown she's going to open the Grammy sparkles sing the shit out Mariah the shit out that song

and you didn't how did you pull the layers away and get that particular performance out of her? It was completely organic. I wish I could, you know, say that I did something amazing, but the truth is I said that, you know, she wanted the song. I had already written the song. And I said, well, in order to get this,

I need to hear you sing it because, you know, when I wrote the song, it was me, you know, and my insecurities of not feeling like a beautiful person, you know. And using those words to try to find some kind of strength, you know, using those words, Linda, you're beautiful. Come on. Don't worry. Don't listen to what other people say. Like the real moment for me. So I'm looking at this girl that has it all that's, you know, pretty and popular. It's like, there's no fucking way this girl is going to understand and relate to. this song. So I said, okay, I need to hear you sing it. So again, recorded her vocal right in that other room right over there and sat with the piano. I put the piano down and then she brought a

friend, you know, so it was like she came back a week later and said, okay, I need to hear you sing it. So whatever, gave her the lyrics and she sat there. And this is truth. I just pushed play. And I go, you good? And she's like, yeah. and she had the demo to work with at home, you know, and she's all nervous, and I push and record, and then she literally says to her friend, don't look at it. You know, something about that it showed me,

oh, she's just like me. You know, she might look different than I do, but she is exactly feels the same. I think everybody can identify with that. And then she's sang that song, from start to finish and then I got chills and I said that's my vocal

and she's like... One take? Yeah. Wow. She's like, what do you mean that's the vocal? I'm like, that's my fucking vocal. I knew it. And she was like, no, you know, I'm like, whatever. And so I just, you know,

just whatever. So I built, then I built the track around that. So I got the strings. I played live. I had a live band. We sat there and to the click and just played to her vocal. and because all she was singing to was a piano. And so I just knew that was my vocal. There's no way she was going to be able to do that again.

And you can hear, you know, the paper, you know. And so there was two things in the bridge we needed to hit. There was two high notes that she's like, please, can I at least get those? I'm like, yeah. And then she wanted to re-sing the whole song. Seven months, you know, bugging me. And I'm like, nope, no, no.

And then finally, so we go to, I don't know, Conway or whatever, I'm like, okay, let's go get these two notes. and she was like, no, can I just sing it? I know I can sing it better. I go, I know you can sing it better, but that's not what's needed. So I was like, she's like, just give me a chance. I'm like, okay, so I push, you know, and she's like, every day I want to let.

I mean, I just stopped. I just stopped. And she's like, what are you doing? I'm like, you're fucking it up already. You know, and she's like, you're right. And then she finally just got, you know, she's like, you're right. You're right, I'm going to ruin it. Yeah, it was too, it was too, I love singers when they don't reach.

Yep. And no one, people rarely trust that process. Like, I can't wait for the day when Mariah realizes that, I mean, just everyone who sangs, I can't wait for them to realize that because I feel like that's a defense shield. Like, you're handing me your resume. And this is what I can do. all these acrobatic things I can do in 13 seconds. Just sing the damn melody.

Yeah, and people don't trust it. Like, if you listen to Aretha Franklin's version of a song for you, the way that she mangles the words bad rhyme, she sings it flat and off key as the character of the song. I know she was just saying, I say some bad rhymes, but whatever. But to me, it's like I love when singers go dry, But it's so hard to convince them not to do otherwise. And I know that for her, her go-to thing is instantly instantly.

And I was like, how did you manage that miracle? So she just thought she was doing a drive run through. Yeah. And that was it. Yeah. That song didn't need it. Yeah. And it did.

And it was interesting because, you know, I think she came out with that dirty song first. And they pulled that shit so fast. and it was like beautiful just went right in and you know in a sense saved the day but the wonderful thing about that it really did get people to

experience her in a different way and I and I feel really proud more proud in that moment because no matter what anybody wants to say about Christina and believe me I get on her but she knows that but she is a very very

talented girl. Like there's, it's crazy her ears. Like, you could have a 60 piece orchestra, eight piece band, whatever going on, singers, gospel, all of it. And she will hear the one violin that went out of tune at this spot. And she, you know, we'll go, what's that? And I'll go, what you mean? And I hear it. But I'm thinking, there's no fucking way she can hear that. And she's like, right there. And I'm like, where, right here? And I'll test her. You know, and I'll go out and see if she's just saying things. And I'll test it again. She goes, no, not there. I'm like, right there.

And it'll be, I'll solo everything. And there's like a violin that's just out. She's very, very talented. But she doesn't trust her talent enough. And that's what happens with a lot of these artists, you know, these singers. They don't trust themselves. Like when Aretha goes on stage,

Aretha sings from her heart. When Janice Joplin got on stage, she reached out, closed her eyes, and she was channeling, God knows what, but it wasn't singing. She was feeling, you know, and I think that's the part that everybody keeps forgetting. They keep forgetting. There's an emotion attached to these lyrics, but here's the thing that's going to really blow up everything for you guys. Janice Joplin, you know, Aretha is going to be a different story, but right now you have to understand a lot of lot of these girls aren't writing these songs and these lyrics so they

don't have any emotional connection. Now, why my songs with artists sound so good is because I always demo them. Even with Alicia Alicia Keys, love the way I sang. She's like, can you demo that for me? And just love

where I drop things, my phrasing, my emotion, because I can I'm a, you know, I feel, you know, I'm in it. I don't care if there's one person here, or a million, I will give you the greatest show you've ever experienced because it's just what I do. It's who I am. But these girls don't know that experience.

They don't understand because, first of all, they don't have the experience of playing to people and getting that feedback, you know, and they're not writing these songs, so they don't know how to give and deliver. They don't know how to deliver these songs because they don't, and then the people who are writing it, they're just getting session singers to. sing it straight and that ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, think, thing, you know, like this, you know, like

fucking, what's his fight, you know, fucking ass, the, Dr. Luke and his, the same fucking lyric over and over, the same, you know, the same fucking format, the arrangement, the same content, the same tone, the same everything. That motherfucker gives the same song over and over

and over and that's what these girls are hearing. But it's going number one. It's going fucking Number one is it's all over the place. So they're just, they're used to being robots. They're not used to singing like Aretha. God forbid. Did you guys ever see the divas with Aretha?

Yeah. Celine. Celine. Oh, it's a tall girl standing next to them. What was it? Mariah Carrie and somebody, the youngest. Glory Estevan.

Yeah. Carol King at the beginning. It was the, did you see that moment where it was, I mean, I laughed. It was so awesome. And they're all singing the song. And then they're all stepping in. Oh, Celine.

Oh, yeah. And then Aretha just, and gets right in from them. And it's almost like it's a sing-off. And then I think Celine was the last one. And then they all just trickle off because you can't compete with Aretha Franklin because she's coming from a different place. Like that voice is coming from a whole.

It's not, she's not singing. She's having an experience. She's giving you emotions, you know? And that's what we're missing right now. Well, what about the singer-songwriter girls that are, like, really popular now? What about, like, the, I'm scared to say these names, we'll see. The scissors, the hers. I love scissor.

And then before them, there's still some singer-songwriters out there like Jill. There's the ericas. There's the Marsha Ambrosius. They don't get the shine, but there are some. I just wanted to at least say their names. I know. You're right. No.

is also and the common the common denominator with we can go to we can go to Phyllis we can go to Whitney we can go to

like a lot of these women are also you know when they're first presented it's kind of like you know they're the first lady they're the princess of a particular label head yeah of a label head that takes them and then you know it's like 15 years later, you're kind of disposable.

And I feel as though oftentimes they're like... It's always a new one. On a racetrack and they're either looking at rearview mirror or they know that someone's behind them. It usually happens at Clive's Grammy Party every year, right? Whenever he presents whoever the next one. Right. And so what I'm asking is... And I know you have relationships with a lot of these label heads. So without necessarily totally throwing them under the bus.

but I feel like I won't even ask you do you feel like I feel like we need a complete overall and I ask this question of Jimmy Jam and also Vosher are you willing to eventually one day stop being the creative

and be the new rhyme fair and be Jimmy I am right but I mean to the place but I still feel like their level of hierarchy it's like right now it's either you're either dealing with Jimmy Iveen

or you're dealing with who's head of Sony now I don't have no idea right or RCA like it's like whoever the main three are and almost feels though we have to completely once we overhaul

that system and replace them with people who are actual that get their hands dirty You know what I mean? No more lawyers running the companies. Yeah. Well, to let you know what I'm doing right now,

a company called We Are Here, and we're a record label, we're a publishing company, and we manage. I manage an artist named Dorothy that's on Rock Nation. I manage a girl named Angel Hayes. You guys might know.

Oh, okay, yeah. We have Willa, this 14-year-old, and she's also on the label. I have on the label, an artist from UK named Lion, a guy named Pete Molinari from UK as well, and Natasha Beddingfield. And I'm working on her album.

So the whole point of this record company was to develop artists. Dorothy, Willa, you know, we're developed, even though she's on Rock Nation, she might as well, you know, not be on a label because, you know, we're doing more work than they are.

And I love Benny. I think he's great. But, you know, right now, that man's afraid of me right now, you know, because I have to get on them so much about, I don't know what you guys are doing, but this is a rock and roll act, and you don't put a single out every day, you know? It's like you build and work an album, right? So they're getting it, and now they're stepping up to the table. But so the purpose of the label is so our management agreements are basically handshakes. If you don't, if you're not with us, if you don't,

if you're not happy, we're doing something wrong, I don't want to. hold myself to you. Our record deals are like my son can read the contract. They're like, you know, paper thin, just like, you know, really just like four, five pages. In that, we're developing them.

We're with them. The publishing deal, I just signed a deal with, I have a partner, Carrie Brown, is my partner. And we just did a deal with peer music, JV, for all our songwriters. I have a deal distributing with Universal in Germany. It's a JV. And so a lot is going on.

And the whole purpose, we just bought a record pressing plant. So I can press records, and we're going to have shows there. And if you're not capable of playing a show on your own, because it's going to go right to record, it goes right to vinyl, we can record right to the lay. And then we just bought a storefront right on, Ventura Boulevard in Studio O City and it's going to be our offices up on top

and downstairs will be our record store we're going to have merch We're going to have a stage and a recording studio there That is going to be for kids to come there And meet other kids that want to be in bands You can showcase your material there Our doors will always be open

For anybody to come in and to express themselves listen to records and all the records that we make from our vinyl, the live records, will be available that we are here. We're building a community. So I want to get done with the Natasha record. I have one other thing I got to do and then I'm done in here.

And then I'm going to... Wait, what does that mean I'm done in here? That means I'm getting myself out of the songwriter. I'll always be a songwriter, but producer out of the studio. And then I will run my label. Right now I'm, I'm, you know, David's here to help me make sure that I'm not missing anything. I'm on the phone.

I call radio station, like our artist Dorothy. I called radio station because she's a rock act. Breaking a rock act is hard, you know. And so there's a different way. So I called radio stations myself. Hey, you know, this is Linda. What? Right.

Like, I manage an artist named Dorothy and I want to give, you know, I want you to hear it and see what you think. And I would love to do something with you guys and would love your support. I can't believe you're calling us. And I'm like, well, radio was really good to my band. And I want to make sure that my artists understand how valuable radio is still today. You know, and they love it. We bring our artists in. I mean, so I've developed all these, you know, we got Dorothy all the way up to number eight on the rock charts.

And then it was only Rock Nation that fucked that all up by not paying for the next round of installment for radio promotion. Yeah. Come on hope. And we lost it. And we were going into number five. We were going in top five. And those motherfuckers pulled it without telling us. And my

God, that man got such a reaming, you know, and that he came into my studio with his tail between his legs and they understand what they did wrong. They didn't understand at the time, but they didn't believe us. They didn't believe that we'd get her to top 20, you know, and then we got to top

20, we got to top 10, and we were going to number five. We're going to number five. Anyways. So that's what I'm talking about. I'm a manager. I'm a label executive and I'm a songwriter. But all of it goes together because my bigger fight is not in here. My bigger fight is out there. And so yes, am I that right now? I can call anybody I want and probably get them on the telephone. But am I Jimmy Ivy? No. But will I be at the level of Jimmy Ivy? Yes, I will. And I'm my label. Can you dot me? But my label is doing something very different right now. We're doing some really great things.

And it's about community. It's about, you know, these kids. It's about showing that you do care. And with a little bit of patience, you can go a long way with an artist because it takes just a little bit for them to last a long time. You know? Man, I feel happy. It's beautiful what you're doing.

I love it. It sounds amazing. Thank you. Wow. I'm super aligned. Well, thank you very much for talking to us today. Absolutely. Of course, love Supreme.

An honor. Thank you. It was wonderful. Well, ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Team Supreme, Boston, unpaid bill, Sugar Steve, Fontegalo, and it's a liea. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make all your name like that. It's all right.

Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm actually going to listen to this episode and get some like sympathy, love. Empathy. You can start with that and then, you know, go there. Thank you, I. Yeah.

Anyway, this is Kwezlov signing off. Kuzlöhm Supreme, only on Pandora. Thank you. Kvastlove Supreme is a production of I-Hart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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