The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Mariah Carey Part 2

Episode Date: December 26, 2023

Revisiting Questlove Supreme's incredible two-part conversation with Mariah Carey. Taped in the middle of the night, this is one of the most open, honest, and incredible QLS conversations you will ever hear—and it happens to be with one of music's biggest superstars.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What's up, everybody? This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. As we celebrate the holiday season, this felt like a worthy two-part classic to revisit. Here is Mariah Carey. We recorded this in the middle of the night, but it was worth it.

Mariah was promoting her book, and she was an open book to us. This is a really free and fun conversation with one of the biggest superstars of music. Part 2 originally aired on Friday, January 15th, 2021. Enjoy everybody and happy holidays and a healthy new year from Team Supreme and everybody at Questlove Supreme. In terms of editing, how does one, because you definitely walked a mighty tight rope as far as like telling your side of the story and your experiences, but when you're writing your memoir, how do you know what stories to tell and what stories to leave out? Because you said that, you know, oftentimes you're not alone. So oftentimes your stories have happened to happen with people that are with you. So how do you know, like, what to share and like what's TMI and what's, okay, this part of the story's cool to tell.

I feel safe telling the story. I guess what I'm asking is how did you know how much to share about Sony prison? How did you know how much to reveal about your Motola period without fear of further repercussion or litigious action or any of those things? Well, you know, in America they can, anybody can be litigious and I've noticed that. I pray to that. And by the way, if anyone should be litigious, it's me to get a certain amount of years back of my life

that were spent basically, you know, under somebody's control. Let the church say amen. Amen, listen, word. But seriously, honestly, there were certain stories we didn't even delve into until like kind of the end of the process. like the story at the kitchen table with the butter knife and stuff like that. But these are things that actually happen. And whether somebody else, you got to look it up to know what I'm talking about,

whether somebody else, you know, felt that that was TMI, I don't care. Like, that was part of my story. That was a catalyst to get me the hell out of that situation. Where you sometimes, you know, a lot of women, whoever it is, I don't want to say specifically women, but we tend to tolerate domestic abuse in whatever form that may take for longer than we should be taking it. And that's what I did because emotional abuse is, I'm not saying it's worse than physical abuse, but it's a form of abuse. Absolutely. It's probably even more damaging, you know.

It stays with you. Yeah, it stays. Yeah. I was going to ask you, being at that period in your life, what do you think led you into a romantic relationship with, you know, the head of your label? And, you know, how, like, how did it even get to that point? Again, I would hope that people will read about this because I think when you read about it and you understand what my childhood was like, you understand what my early adult, very early adult, we're not even adults. They teens, literally like, you know, like, you understand. about as a struggling singer and songwriter with everything in my head going towards a goal,

going towards a goal, going towards. I'm not going to be like my family members that I've seen go down the path of drug, drug abuse and prostitution and all the things that happen, right? Where a mass appeal audience doesn't even understand what that is. And if it's ever been, you know, used it, used or talked about or spoken about in the media, it's always been like, for shame. Look at it. Like it's never like look at what she actually came out of. She came from. Yeah. Look at what she escaped. Yeah. It's never viewed as a success story.

No, but it's also like and I'm trying and people think I was trying like look what I came from. Like I'm just saying, I'm not saying that's exclusively a black experience, but it's Shelley ain't in the middle of the road. Not a daughter, princess. Not an adult contemporary experience. No, it's not. It's not anything other than a really, really dysfunctional and hard experience that I went through and multiple times. So when you ask what led to that situation, I didn't have boyfriends like after high school.

And I never had like a real and actual serious situation because when I was growing up, I always knew I'm not going to be around these people. I don't care. Like I'm getting out of this. Go on. I'm going to realize my dreams. This is not a, this is not an if, this is a when. And so when I do, I won't be around these people that I'm around right now who are doubters and who look at me as the scum of the earth.

That's what I'm not going to. So anyway, in dealing with that relationship and how it evolved, there are many factors that we need to develop. What I will say is he believed in me as much as I believed in myself. And that is the most attractive quality. that I can find. So maybe there were other things where it wasn't like,

oh my gosh, it's my school bill crush and la la la la. And, you know, knowing that he was 20 plus years older than me and I was a kid, but there's a certain sense of validation and a sense,

and at the beginning, I'm saying. Right, right. Yeah, and a sense of security when you're having to fight your own family, your own demons, your own stuff. that that was there. It was,

and that's where they got this whole Prince charming narrative. But let's face it, it wasn't that, and it certainly didn't evolve into that from a number of reasons that I've talked about a lot. But, you know, it was what it was,

and I definitely wish him well. I just wish I could get back some of those years and just insert, like, a party every now and then with a couple girlfriends or, like, a fun moment or like a phone conversation. without somebody having to be like,

what you're talking to? What's going on? What is it? And freaking out and ruining everything. And taking it, like, as much as those years were amazing with the successes and things in the early years I'm talking about, it was also very much like, well, you could have fun for 10 more minutes. And then it's over. Back to work. Wow.

Wait, I don't want to spoil alert. And again, Mariah is correct. I think probably the best way to, I don't know, not have the experience that I had, but, you know, I'd recommend that people get this book and take in the information. Yeah. So they can learn like I did. But there's one incident I kind of want to ask about, but I feel like it's the most gripping story in the book. So I don't want to spoiler alert it. But I will call it the French fry incident.

What is this you're talking about? Okay, I won't say it's the French. I haven't gotten to it yet. She's basically at the height of, well, what is truly the height of Mariahitis in a 30-year-story career? I will say that, yes, she's way beyond household name here. And just for her to have a simple pleasure, like, French fries winds up turning into a near Will Smith enemy of the state situation with escaping security people and da-da-da-da-da. So, and I'm asking you, one time I got to ask Will Smith this question.

And I asked him, like, what is it, when you're in this house alone, how many people are here just for you to feel comfortable to be alone? like walk downstairs in your underwear. And he was like like 17 people. Jesus. Wow. Yeah. But he felt he needed 17 people. No, no.

Well, because I've never seen an estate that sprawling and big. I mean, it's like 250 acres. And, you know, it's like a full scale staff of, you know, it's a full staff at at his living quarters. It's so big than a rent. It's the middle and not. Yeah. Yeah.

And the thing is, is like, I'm like, well, okay, like, if you get out bed and want to get some orange juice at four in the morning, like, all these people, your staff is in the house. Like, you can't just be yourself and walk down in your underwear. So I'm like, okay, what's the number of minimum people that have to be in this house for you to feel like I'm alone? And he said, 17. Normally, there's about 40 plus people on his property, security and all that stuff. So, I mean, during the height of what I call between Mariah Carey and glitter.

Water. Yeah. What was, I mean, how often, even in your home, what was isolation or just a moment to yourself? Like, was it still always with security no matter where you were? And even in your house, like, was it always like that? Okay, so we're speaking specifically about what I'll call Sing Sing, right? Yes. You refers to her.

Yes, we get. House. Yes. Yes. Because when you say up until glitter, that's a whole other thing. Like, because I left at Butterfly before, but during the writing, butterfly. Well, I'm trying to figure like just a little version.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But that was a whole other thing. So when you read the book, you'll see, okay, that was its own hysteria and whole thing. So I'll break it up into the couple years that I lived in that huge mansion, which you can Google it. There's really no, we never took any pictures. Like, you know, today everybody would take pictures of their house.

Everybody would make a huge deal out of it. It's a $30 million mansion, massive, sprawling thing that I, by the way, pay for half of everything, down to the electric. Down to the electric ground has a 20-something. year old woman. Wow. That man had you splitting bills. No, no. No. No. Twitter would go crazy. But I'm saying, but that was me being like, oh, like I don't want to be like my home and I don't want to be kicked out of my own house. And right. Little did I know when he said, here's a fabulous piece of property. Let's make this a house. I was like, okay, great. I just got

a million dollars for a publishing advance or whatever it was. So I'm thinking, I don't know how much stuff costs and I'm like okay I need to pay for half of this because I wanted to be mine. I never want to be kept out of my house and when I said I was going to get married I believe in that I was like oh I guess this is for the rest of my life like I'm not just I wasn't like

let's just let's just put it and we'll get out of it whenever no you need agency to make it a real relationship like you need agency your own property your own self-worth and everything else that I had worked that hard for to that point

But anyway, at that point, there was always security. There was, I would say, there probably about, I mean, look, when people were coming to the house, like the French fight incident that you're talking about, the jail break incident, as we call it, and the brat and JCP and all that, I don't know, there were 10 security, armed security guards. There were, you know, there were housekeepers, management, like, all. all those people were there. Did I ever feel like I used to creep down the stairs sometimes and have like a semi-private moment until I would hear the,

on the intercom, what are you doing? Wow. And that would freak me out. That's freaking me out. In every room, the anacom was in every room because that's a big house. That's. Yeah.

Maybe you wanted to just get a snack in the refrigerator, like, ah, don't eat that. No, no, that wasn't, that wasn't said. But it would just be like I'd get into the, I would sneak out of the bed. And I talk about this, like barely trying to not move the bed. And I would sneak out and tiptoe to the back area of my closet, go that way to the right, and then sneak all the way around the house, down the side to where the kitchen was.

Meanwhile, I could have gone straight down to the kitchen, but I didn't want to walk through the bedroom, so I didn't want to wait a pump. and then I would go that way and I would suddenly get into the kitchen and be like, oh, I would have some chateau-e-e-chem that was around like a little splash, whatever, you know, try whatever, what's snack?

And suddenly, what are you doing? And I'd be like, nothing. You know, it was just really, it was that confining. But I will say, there is a certain thing in terms of no matter where you go, there you are, because even here, even in my life, now, even having this greatest week, possibly, because, you know, breaking the Spotify record and all the stuff that happened, like, I'm not too porn, I'm not whatever. But having this happen at this point in my life and the book and all this stuff is so amazing.

But then I don't feel like, oh, I can just walk around in my underwear with, you know, no judgment or no whatever, or walk around with, like, even talking to you guys right now, like walk around with my hair, look at a mess or this and that. And that's really because of some of the things that have happened to me where I look at like quote unquote stardom as a fabulous thing and a goal that that once achieved. It's like, you did it. Woo! But it also comes with this level of expectation. You always got to be that. You've always got to be on. And if you're not on, if you're not on.

You fell off. No, but even within your own home, people like, what's matter? Like if I'm not walking around like, hi, because I've created this festive thing and I've always be happy and, you know, make everybody else feel comfortable for me to just be allowed to be me. And I feel like with the book, I've gotten to a place where I can say to people who may have walked all over me previously, like, did you read the book? Because if you did, you'd see that you need to actually treat me like a human being

where, like, if I'm on a video shoot and there is no water and there is no covering, you know, There is no seat. Like we were just doing this, the Christmas thing with Jayhud and Iron Burnley, right? So the Apple special. And I see Jayhut team and I see the second we break, right? Because, you know, there's the union breaks and this thing. Her team is incredible. They got her seat.

They got her water. They got her massage. They got her foot moment. And I'm just like, yay, Jayhud, because I love her so much. I think she's such an incredible person. She deserves that treatment more than anybody I know. But I took note of it and I was like, I've been having this struggle for years because what happens is, and even my therapist back in the day said to me, when you smile and you're on, people don't think there's a problem. There's anything wrong.

Yeah. You don't need to be careful of. You don't need to be. They don't think you're human. Yeah. I'm on camera. I'm smiling. I'm here.

I'm there and it's lit well and it's hair and makeup and it's outfits and it's sparkly. And then it cuts. And everybody goes about the merry way. and if I don't have like a little morsel of food or just like someone helping me walk to the trailer or whatever it is and that's a lack of management you know and this is we're talking about 2001 but I'm saying this is been a pattern and even to this day like I don't know I just try to make people fit into like get into the space where I'm expecting them to be caretakers but really I'm the caretaker and I always have been so so wait then is this book like the warning of what's to come memorized? because, I mean, are you now at a point where you're understanding all these things?

And so are you going into a I don't give a fuck phase? Because I feel like now is the time now is the time to go into the I don't give a fuck phase. I don't give a fuck COVID. I don't give a fuck 2020. Like, why do you give a fuck? Right. In the words of the immortal and ever present Diana Ross,

and I talk about this in the book, she said to me, we're at top of the pops, which you guys know what that is. I know. Yeah, yeah. You know, that can make a break an artist. You might want to give them a little backstory on that. You can see everybody there. No, our readership, our fans know what top of the pops is.

They know what it is. But in case some of my clams happen to listen, it was a show that could literally make or break a record in the UK and around Europe. So you would oftentimes run into anybody from Phil Collins, to Diana Ross, who I happen to run into. And she's there doing her own hair makeup. She came into my room. You know, she's there. And this is during, this is around I'll be there remake time.

So that's like, I don't want to say numbers of years, but it's very beginning of my career, right? 90. Ah, la, la, la, la. Yeah. It's 92. But she said it's 92, but who's counting? Okay.

Was it not? living not? No, it was not too. Yeah, around that time. I don't even know. It could have been right after that, but all I know is Trey wasn't with me because Miss Ross is Trey's favorite. And I was calling him and leaving voice messages with her. But anyway, she scans the room.

She's looking around the room and she goes, she sees the hair makeup, the this and that, the wardrobe, the managers, the lookers on, the publicists, whoever they were. And she's by herself, doing her hair, doing her makeup, walking in bed, in and out of the room and she's like in the most glamorous way possible and she's like Mariah one day you're not going to have all these people around you you don't going to have these people around you and she said someday you're not going to want to have these people around you and I was like and now I'm like I believe that someday is here good if they're not serving a purpose of really helping you why are they here we are in the age of direct messaging of figuring out

your own narrative. Yes. What is the purpose of people, if they're not 100,000 trillion, quadrillion percent, team MC and really, really care to be there? Why are you giving away money?

I wanted to ask you about one of my favorite jams of yours breakdown with bone thugs and horny. Yes. That's my shit. What was that session like? Okay. So first, I was with Stevie J.

And actually I had the conversation with... Damn, I forgot Stevie J used to do music at one point. Amazing music. He lost Steve J. Yes, he made amazing music. I forgot Stevie J. He was a legit producer. No, Steve, he was the dude.

Straight up. Was he as crazy back then as I know him now? From the TV shows and such. Yeah. Yes, in general. Because I don't, I don't really, like, keep up with that. I have my own memories of him back then. The Stevie-G I know is the Stevie J of VH1 reality shows.

So I'm just trying to, was that person in English, is that person, was that him? Always been there. Also, very charming. Always very charming. I can't say. No, she was in Sony prison then. That wasn't happened. I was in a prison.

But here's the thing. I don't think at that point that it wasn't reality shows and stuff, and it was still a grind because he was a bad boy producer, right? So he was the behind the scenes person making beats. And we ended up, so I talked about the idea of Bon Founcouncing Harmony, and we were very inspired by notorious thugs, but that was obviously a minor moment. And then we kind of like flipped it to have more to,

like a little like happy part on top of that harder beat. So, you know, we ended up knowing that they were that crazy English bone were going to be on it. And, yeah, I was in the studio with StevieJ a lot. And then I ended up recording, I mean, I don't even want to tell this story. One of these days, if there's a part two, I'm going to tell the story of this. It includes brownies. It includes lots of music.

Yes. Brownies and busy boom? Say what? Oh, Brownies and Busy Bo? I'm sorry. Brownies by myself. Oh, sure. Okay.

Okay. No, that session was a complete haze, like when we were all together in the session, but I laid my vocals down first. So by the time they heard the song, it already had that, you know, it had the case. It had that whole thing. It was clear that I was inspired by their flow and everything. So when I recorded my vocals, though, I went

to Florida and it was a whole thing with the brownies and whatever. And then I will get into greater detail at one at some point. But when I listen back to it, because I, you know, for my photo, it would just be like, okay, brownies and my assistant at that time was like queen of brownies. And so she gave me the brownies. And then I'm at this restaurant in Florida after I did the whole day of vocal, like doing my backgrounds, doing the vocals, layering them, putting it down, you

know, laying out kind of like the parts I thought would be cool for the guys. And then obviously they did their thing on top of it and their own thing to it. But I listened back to it afterwards. After I got in the car, after like I got a paranoid moment, like people in the restaurant started recognizing me going, oh, my kid, can we take a picture with you? And I was like, had the brownie. So I'm like, I still felt like my high school self. And I was like, why do they want to take a picture with me?

What? Why? What is it? Because I just wasn't used to the whole brownies thing is I was very. never doing that. And then I'm like, okay, let's get out of here. So I get in the car and I put it on and I heard how kind of like how fast I was singing and I said to myself, what in the hell is this? Like this is not what did I do? I hate this. I don't know. Not that I hate this. I love the way it came together. You wouldn't have thought on paper, but then with the execution, I was like, I know. So anyway, I loved it after I finished it. But when I read this and back to it after the Brownie's thing, I thought I had. Yeah. I thought I had wasted a session and that it was horrible. But anyway, after the recovery, which is a whole other story, Q-tip is involved via phone opening.

But after that, and I'm deliberately being evasive because I have to tell the story in detail at some point. But then they laid there, when we got So Katu back at the Hit Factory in New York, a complete and total haze with those guys. But I love working with them. and they, you know, they could hear that there was, they had inspired the whole thing. So it was, it was, it's still one of my favorites. And I appreciate you.

I love that. Speaking of which, oh, by the way, Fonte. Oh, yeah, yeah. Speaking of which, Fonte, I listen to that busy bone interview like once a month. I'm a busy bone fan, a big. Man, listen. Yo, that, that nigger business bone, because. Busy Boone and Michael Henderson

are two things I have to listen to six times a year just to make it through life. Mara, did you ever watch BET uncut? Way back when, yeah. Busybone had a song called Uh-huh. Ain't nothing like money in the zip-lock bags.

It's one of these. Ain't nothing like money in a zip-lock bag. It's a classic. Yeah. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more,

to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Mariah, I have a question.

With Honey. I always wanted to know this. Okay. So at the time when honey was first being conceived, I was hanging with Tip a lot. And he was mad amped. Yo, I got this thing for Mariah. It's going to be incredible. And then, you know, cut to four months later, it kind of,

went through the bad boy filter. Right. And I always wanted to know like what was the conversation that transpired that turned it from the original demo that I heard or at least the idea that he presented to you. I mean, obviously the question is, of course,

you know, by 97, anything did he did was instant magic. So it's like, duh, of course I'm going to go, you know, go this route. I get it. But yeah, how did that transpire like as far as the changing of it? Because the day came out, I called him.

And you know me. Again, I'm a patch fiend. I was like, yo, these are your drum patches? And he was like, no, man. And this is a term that Tipo always uses. He's like, I gave her nigger drums, man. And, nah, man. And they use different drum patches.

So how did it, how did it come from what I heard in the demo to what we now know? You know, that era, specifically with that song, honey, was so much going on in my life. Don't forget, that was like, that was the first emancipation of Mimi

before the actual one happened later in the time. Wait, even before fantasy? I thought fantasy was sort of the flag planning of That was me I snuck that in They didn't really know who ODB was Had they seen his album cover And knew that he made songs about gonorrhea

I don't think that would have happened You mean two years into the Wutang Clan Like no brass at Sony was like She wants to do with some rapper, no Or whatever They didn't even know when I wanted to work with Jay Z They didn't know who he was Like they just weren't connected culturally and they thought I was on some kind of trying to be cool tangent.

Nigger music. Right. It really was that it was a generation gap and it was a cultural gap. And it was just them feeling more comfortable with me going a different route. You know, they wanted to keep it AC. They didn't understand. But I didn't care. So when we go back to that honey, specifically that record.

record, yeah, QTash, as I call them QTash, had come up with that body rock sample. I guess that's what. Tretcher is three, body rock. Tretcher is three. And I loved it and I wrote the song to that loop. But then when I guess somehow, I don't really, honestly, I think I've blocked this part out. So I don't want to say it in an accurate way. But I know that at the time, Puffy and I had done the other record together.

their fantasy and we were working on stuff. But, you know, there's a certain kind of, um, energetically, if somebody's like, well, let me disclose it, it's, it was the smarter move because it was, it was the smartest move to do. I wanted to incorporate the, right, as that little hey DJ. Right. Yeah.

I wanted to, I wanted to incorporate that. And we had the regular, you know, the straight up loop from the treacherous three. And then I want to put that part, the Hey, DJ part in for my own reasons, which I talk about in the main of Mara Carey, the memoir, I want to say meaning and Mark the same time, but messed that up. Anyway. Oh, DJ.

You're so funny. You did that on purpose? Yes. Damn, savage. Nice one. And I'll say read the book, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. That's, wait, am I wrong and ask?

All right, no, you didn't even get there yet. Trust me. No, no, no. Now, I wasn't going to ask one more honey question then because, and I'm wondering, I'm sure you get into it in the book, but earlier on in the book where I'm already at, I had discovered your dislike for the dance. But you just mentioned that, you know, this is also a stage in your life with honey where you felt free.

So I was like, okay, so the freedom to do the choreography and stuff in the video, was that like that free feeling and just saying, fuck it? Like, let's just go all out. You know, I talk about. my father's mother traumatizing me about dancing. Roy that aged baby, girl, let me see dance. Like, it's a whole thing. Yes.

You know. It's in the book. That's why I said that part, but I, but you're dancing and honey. So I was like, did you get, you got it back? Like, it didn't turn me into Janet Jackson. It's just one little choreograph moment. And it was cute, you know. I actually, I really loved that video.

And that that was the only time I ever had fun making a video back then. That's the first time I ever was free to make a video and kind of like express myself. And I work with Paul Hunter. Wait, more fun than Heartbreaker? No, the heartbreaker is later. No, but in terms of fun, like, you consider that? The first time I had fun. That was the honey video.

Oh, okay. I was about to say, I thought Heartbreaker was actually like, wow, okay. That's, I thought that was you. Yeah. Okay. No, I'm sorry. No, but that. But Honey was the first time there was no ever present other person on set telling me don't do that or telling the director not to film me in a certain way or what to do.

Oh, okay. Yeah. It was the actual first time, first taste of freedom that I had. Even like back in the days with the I Don't Want to Cry video, there was a male model in the video and that got squashed real quick. That was a problem. It was problematic. I had a whole lecture about that. lecture about that.

Yeah. How awkward was it to take control of the reins and decide for yourself what you wanted at that period, at the, at that period of your career? Like during honey or, you know, there's the whole. So it all stemmed from being able to extract myself. from that controlling situation, because as you know, and I don't know if you know,

but like if you get into something as a kid and you allow that pattern to continue, it's very difficult to break free from that because other people just expect you to go along with it. They expect you to go along with it. They're used to you being compliant and you just deal with it. So especially when you're dealing with someone at that level,

which now there really isn't anyone that powerful to me, like because the way the artists were in control of a lot, everybody except me. You are that power now. Well, the artists can be that powerful at this point, you know, especially if they have people to understand with that. But back then, everybody was scared of that corporate, as I call it, a corporate morgue led by specifically one person

who was Uber powerful. They were all scared to death, including me. So when I started, when I got to the point that I could no longer take it, is when I decided, okay, I have to break free and I got to figure out how to do it. So if you listen to the butterfly album and the lyrics on that album, specifically Butterfly,

that was what I hoped somebody would say to me, like wild horses were entitled for their spirit dies. You know, I wanted them to say that, like, you know, and I truly feel your heart will lead you back to me when you're ready to land. I wanted to hear that, but I didn't hear that. So I wrote it to my son, I wrote it to someone else as a lyric for that song and for that time. And it was very much what I just, I had to gain the strength.

Like if you listen to pedals from the Rainbow album, that's about like all the people that were screwed up in my life. And this is not me blaming everybody else. I'm sure I was a part of it too. I allowed it to happen. But break free not only from a personal relationship, but from a massive corporate structure where you, are, have been the number one artist on that label and you also started out as a child really. And then also your whole personal life is surrounded by people that are slave to that system. It's really not easy to break free. And then the subsequent years when I wasn't allowed to be free,

even when I was on another label or even when I was trying to do my own thing, there was a concerted effort to kind of squash that or quash that or whatever the proper terminology is. So there was until the emancipation of Mimi, there, when I got with a new group of people, fortunately, you know, after all the stuff that happened, there was no, there was no freedom. There was nothing. There was a constant fight, whether I was inside the structure or having gotten out of structure, there was a constant fight, a constant battle, and it just made me sort of implode,

and it really, really screwed me up. But what can you do? Here I am, and it's great. Hallelujah, thank God. I'm not going to dwell on that stuff, but I talked about it in the book because I wanted to actually, when people, years from now,

tell my story, hopefully that happens, they're going to have to use that book as a template. Like, this is my actual story. And I look at a lot of people that I admired who didn't get a chance to do that. They didn't, they may have told their stories through their music and people may interpret their stories. And I know some people like to have everybody else's input in their perspective. But what I wanted was to tell my actual story, which doesn't begin with Ryan Carey put out Vision of Love in 1990. No, it doesn't begin with that.

I'm coloring in the wrong crayon with a brown crayon for my father. they all freak out of me. It begins with like, I don't understand my hair because I'm, you know, it begins with all these identity issues, these issues of race, these struggles. And then it goes, you know, it goes to the issues of control and people, you know, always wanted to have control, even though that's not my song, but I'm just saying, there's a thing where this is a constant theme. And it's also like just being a woman in a male dominated industry.

and then a woman of color with all this ambiguity and people deciding how they're going to market me and all of that shit. So what were some of the things you mentioned earlier that, you know, you would hear things that they, you know, that people would say that, you know, you wouldn't be privy to if, like, if you had darker skin or whatever.

So, like, what was some of the stuff? And you don't have to attribute it to anyone. But just like, what's some of the stuff you were here, like white people say around you? That, you know what I'm saying? that you knew they wasn't right. About your music or whatever, you know what I'm saying? I'm going all the way back to childhood.

I'm going to kindergarten. I'm going to, like I said, coloring with a brown crayon and having the entire, the teachers come over and go, ha ha, why did you use that crayon? Like I used a green crayon, but because they just didn't know. So, and having the entire class stare at me. I mean, basically, I was humiliated, and that's the first time I realized I was different from anybody else because they had only seen my white mother coming and going. But my parents also were divorced.

I'm quite sure if I had had a different, I would have had a different experience with a family that was married. If they were going to be a mixed family, they started out in Brooklyn Heights. If they had just stayed married, stayed in Brooklyn Heights, like where diversity is more, um, they're used to diversity a bit more than like feeling like, oh, let me, you know, both of them, I feel like both my parents, mainly my father was like, I want my kids to have a better life. So he thought moving, you know, like he thought doing that. Baby boomers.

Yeah, like that was good. He thought that was going to make it better, but really it made it worse. It made it worse. I talk about, like, I don't know my ex-siblings experiences. I know what I've heard. I'm sure it was horrible for them and I feel bad for them. but they thought it was easier for me. And in actuality, it was probably, I won't say it's worse or better because I can't

speak for anybody's experience but my own. But I know that. Yeah. So I tried to deal with that selflessly in the book. You know, I tried to give that sort of like, you know, look, they put me from hell. And in my opinion, I'm not going to say who's what or who did what. But the point. is I heard a lot of stuff.

Like I have this song called Close My Eyes, which is one of my fans' favorite, and it's from one of my favorites from the Butterfly album. And it goes, I was a wayward child with the weight of the world that I held deep inside. Life was a winding road,

and I learned many things. Little ones shouldn't know, but I closed my eyes, steady my feet in the ground, raise, my head to the sky, and the time rolled by. So I feel like that child as I look at the moon,

maybe I grew up a little too soon, meaning I was in this fucked up place, and I had to grow up on my own and figure it out by myself. You know, so here I am. There is no woe is me. This is just my story. It's unique to me.

And other people that have similar experiences, I guess, will understand it. Or hopefully it will empower other people to feel like they're important enough. They're worthy enough to exist because I actually didn't feel worthy. But I did have, thank God, a spark of hope to know that one day,

I would get out of the situation I was born into. I was going to ask you, Mariah, do you think that in your marriage to Tommy and what you referred to as the kind of Sony prison years, do you think that played a role in you marrying Nick and choosing someone that was, at least on paper, like very different? You know what I'm saying? Very different from the first marriage. From the first marriage, I mean, yeah, on paper. I mean, I don't know what the marriage was like, but on

paper it appeared that way. Yeah. I mean, look, the power dynamic in the fur, like I laugh at it now because I would have two marriages, whatever. I'm like, do you mean my first ex-husband? My second. Hey, it's all good. I'm on my second time around, too. Don't eat trip. It's all good.

And I keep in mind the second time. Five. No, I'm playing. I would just like to be invited. Sorry. Go ahead. It's coming. Honestly, that was, it was fun. It was great, but it was just one of those things. No, it was great. Nick and I had fun, and it was like,

let's just be kids and have a good time and whatever. And the bottom line is we co-parent now, and we have two kids that I love that make my life a better thing that give me conditional love. I hope. And so it's a totally different experience. It's a completely different experience. But yes, I don't think I would have ever done,

how could I do, there could never be a situation where I would be that vulnerable to being fully under somebody else's control like that ever again. That's good. Everybody don't learn their lessons. Everybody don't learn their lessons, so that's good.

No, for real. It's honestly impossible. How can you be, you can't recreate like, okay, there's going to be this mobile. Oh, yeah, right. A kid that has nothing, that has a dollar a week, a day. And then they're going to help, you know, give you your record deal, but you're actually going to write all these songs, produce them, do this and that. And you're going to make them money and their corporation money, but still they're going to control it.

And still have to split the damn bill. Right. That was me. I blame myself. Yeah. She wanted ownership. Mariah. Yes.

Okay. So now that the book is out and has done well, obviously, I mean, I would think the next logical step. And, you know, when I finished the book, I was like, okay, I already feel like Lee Daniels is already speaking to her. Like, let's do it. Well, but then I thought about it. And it just hit me that not, not enough Bruehaw was made on your Precious. Performance and precious.

Yeah. And in recapping. And I'm recapping your videos for this episode. And again, also recapping your narration of the audio book. Yeah. Are you ever going to get on? Are you properly going to get on the acting horse again? Has glitter made you gun shy or like?

Because precious came so much after. I know, but I'm just saying that is I feel like that's an area that you really, really should explore because you're, your comic timing is on point with the book and the short you did with funny or die we're also funny you're like engaging do you want to explore the acting world and immerse yourself in it for real

this go around or are you just fine with like okay I tried it once and I'm fine well here's the thing so when I first met the Daniels it was post glitter and he was actually

and I had done this movie called Wise Girls with Mirre Serbino that was yeah An independent movie. Yeah, so that could have been a great movie. Not a long about great, but it was supposed to have been narrated by her character. A lot of the scenes were kind of like added at the end. But it's like the land of independent filmmaking.

So my original goal was always start, I always wanted to act. But my original, like if I could create like, here is my path, it was to start with independent projects, to do things that were character. to work with great directors, et cetera, et cetera. But that, the whole acting thing was completely a non-starter for the corporate morgue,

one person mainly. And so it wasn't even allowed. And I talk about it in the book, so this is no secret, I'm actually being more cage, whatever about it than I wasn't the book. But it wasn't allowed. It just wasn't allowed. So my path of like,

let me do these greedy independent projects was just, it wasn't even that it wasn't encouraged. It was blocked. It was not allowed. So in developing glitter, what happened was they very much whitewashed it quite literally, you know, the studio, the best of that. And then by the end of it, there was so much, oh, it just all was so incestuous. The label and the time of this and that. having left, you know, that whole situation. It just became like, there was no script.

It was all over the place. And it wasn't right. And then it came out on, you know, September 11th, 2001. So what are you going to do? But then, but then, like, you know, wise girls and Lee had seen that. And then he was like, I love your acting. Like, you should be encouraged. So we worked on a couple other projects together.

And then we did Precious, which he called me the day before. I was like, hey, you're going to do this? I had read Push by Sapphire, which I don't know. You guys read that, but I read it. Yeah, we know it. Yeah. Yeah. Had given it to me, we're on the beach and the Beezza.

I read it twice. So when I knew that Lee was doing the movie, I was like, wow, did I think there was a part for me in the movie? No, not really. Who knew his take on it? But I'm so happy that I did because he's a visionary. He's a great director. He understood what it took to put me in a role.

and have it be not quote Mariah Carey. So we did that and working with Monique and Gabby was just like really being in it, really being in it and I loved it. But yeah. Can I ask you though? Because now through reading the book and knowing your life and the characters that are coming out of your life and the situations that you've been in and knowing that character and precious witch, I just, you blew me away like no bullshit.

tell us between was it something personal that you were drawing from and what was the direction from Lee to you about that character? Lee's direction is pretty much always this. Do nothing. Do nothing. Okay. Like he, no, I'm laughing when I say that because, of course, he gives more direction. But let's say after he gives you his direction, he's like, okay, okay, do nothing, do nothing.

And I'm like, how do now? How do I do nothing? But I have to say on that particular shoot, we really only did like three or four takes of that. And it was so powerful because I, so I had worked with a woman named Karen Giordana, who's a really close friend of mine and who is an acting coach, but also a director.

And Lee was working with her on Creshes, mainly with the girls in the scene at each one, each one. And they were, it was all improv. He loves, impritalization. So, you know, she was like, oh, my gosh, this is an incredible thing,

energetically that's happening with this movie. And she was so excited about it. And then the last minute, he called me, and me and Karen just put together kind of like a backstory for the character really quick. And Lee's main concern was, you know, he had a prosthetic nose made for me, which we didn't even end up using,

but putting it on and taking it off because my skin is so sensitive, made it enlarged anyway. So that was great for him, Because that was his main concern. He thought he caught me putting on makeup. He was like, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, but, you know, everybody had their makeup and hair and their shirt,

but his main thing, and I love it because a lot of people, when the movie first came out, they didn't even recognize me because there was an accident. There was a whole different look. So to answer the initial question, do I want to do more of it? I don't know. It would depend on the director. It would depend on the role. Honestly, I don't want to do it just for the sake of doing it.

I want to do it for the creative experience, but I do know that, like, I am high maintenance. Me as Mariah Carey, I'm not freaking high maintenance. No. No, I am. And I've always said it. I said in some interview,

I think it was with the Guardian. I'm like, yeah, I've always been high maintenance. I just didn't have people to facilitate the maintenance. So. Even as an actress, you're high maintenance? Like, Mariah the singer, one thing. But when you go to set and stuff, it's still the same expected.

Oh, okay. But that role, absolutely not. Like, and we wouldn't have tolerated it. I know that's right. Yeah, I just have to get, if that's the role and that's what we're doing, then that's what we're doing.

But if I want to do another project, I love behind the scenes, I love executive producing, I love writing, you know, I love all that stuff. And yes, I want to act more and I want to do things that are fun. Speaking of which, Amir,

how is your experience as curly? This is not my interview. I'm interviewing you right now. That's why I'm hiding. I just want to know because I loved that. I loved that moment of you being able to be a part of a part of that without, you know, I just, in my mind, like, I would love to do some animation. I would love to do some more of that type of stuff, you know.

This is for soul. I haven't watched it yet. So, yeah, how was your experience? I watched it five times. It was a dream come true. Yes, it was historical. I love it. This is not my interview.

You're not getting off. Okay. No, but I really think, yeah, I mean, there's some people that have to ease into acting and do a lot of prep work and, you know, get with their coaches and all that. But you have a really natural, believable acting ability that. I think that you should explore more. Like your timing is great, which I think comes from singing or whatever,

but I think you should explore that. So, you know, I really, I really do want to. My two cents. No, and by the way, that's a very,

a lot of two cents coming from me because of taste level and everything that you know, just knowledge-wise, I'm just like, what I, the mistake I made with glitter, which maybe it wasn't a mistake. It was probably supposed to happen that way.

you have to have a huge fall for people to care about you again, I guess. I don't know, maybe it's just me. That's just what they, how they didn't be. But, you know, after that experience, I realized you have to work with somebody, a top-tier person to bring out the best in you. It's like anything. It's like collaborating on a song. You can lead the way.

You could be the one doing most of it. But at least, you know, when you have someone where it's scales are more balanced, I feel like that's a different experience. You know what I mean? Maybe leaves your person. Yeah. I'm just putting out there. It's a person.

I believe that he is and we've been talking about, you know, some ideas. It's just a big to put this memoir and adapt to adapt it into like where we're talking about taking it. It's going to be interesting. It's a series. It's a series. Yeah. It's a series. Yeah, all day.

I mean, Fonte, just like the early years. Yeah. It is. It can easily be an Amazon, a part season, like, yeah, that's, that's, it's a no-brainer. We've been talking about that, and that's not necessarily Amazon, but I'm saying that's the thing. Like, and what to the earlier discussion about why or writing the book or what, I don't know if anybody said why, but just to answer the thing about, like, how this whole thing happened. And I said initially I wanted to emancipate my little girl self, like little Mariah. That was the goal because nobody knew her. She was famous.

I know I'm speaking about myself in the third person, but really I feel like my I understand. Yeah, it's like a different person because people, she wasn't famous. Nobody knew she was. She's this poor little, you know, for what a lot of people thought of as like this mongrel type of a person. And so, you know, a sad. kid, but with a lot of hope and ambition and stuff. But again, the film adaptation, whether it's a

series or whatever, has to bring that girl to life. Do you know what I mean? It has to show people. It's not just this princess thing that you're seeing. There's a lot of, yeah, that happened. Hey, is there a person that you've long to work with that you have not worked with yet? or have you checked off everything off you on your uh your bucket list my bucket list no i don't really have a bucket list i mean yeah yeah there's people on it you're on it many people are on it like i'm just not you're saying that to all the curleys but i mean in terms of i mean because and I don't consider this you know the the the victory lap of all I wanted is you as a I don't consider that a curtain call or a swan song or anything but like is there is there

anything that you haven't done that you wanted to do but wait a minute wait a minute what I forgot what I forgot I totally forgot. Dude, we have to talk about it. Chick. Thank you. I totally forgot, too. I forgot.

Okay, so you guys don't know. Oh, damn. I don't even know that should reveal this much. Basically, in the shortest way possible, Mariah pulled a Charlie X-E-S iconop move. She made a... It was prior to her. Oh, yeah, I know, I know.

but I'm trying to put in contemporary to her. She basically made a dummy album or a side project a Chris Gaines if you will. I was going to say thank you.

I was trying to go through every thank you. Give me Chris Gaines. Wait, you don't know that that icon of pop is Charlie XX's secret. I'm I didn't even know

I'm on a child X's world. Damn, y'all. That we feel stupid yesterday, Avere. Look, I work at the Tonight Show. I have to know who every Gen Z person. Yes, there's a song. No, I get it. But you're the only one that.

That was the song, I don't care. I love it. Yeah, I know that. Yeah, I know. Right. So basically, Charlie XX didn't want to ruin her credibility. So she milly-vanillied that song of these two model girls' name, I kind of pop. But it kind of backfired because that song became super big.

That shit pop. Right. Even though Charlie X-E-X is, even though she's a name in our own right, she uses the icon of pop thing as sort of an excuse to. It was like Prince in the time. Right, but we knew that Prince was Madhouse, and we knew that Prince was the time. We knew that Prince was Sheila E.

And we knew that Prince was family. This Charlie X-X things was totally, that was totally an option. Wait, do we just lose Mariah? 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts,

and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world, are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side,

a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, hello. Johnny Hames, I apologize. Okay, so let me rephrase the question. The question was that the general public doesn't know

that you've made the secret album called Chick. Yes. In which you kind of let loose and made a very convincing alternative rock record. What year did you record Chick? The same year that I was doing the daydream album. 95? Yeah, always be my baby.

and um okay and sweet day and all that yeah can i find it no i wanted to i didn't know how close to the chest you were with it so i i didn't share it with him but can we one song can we play like a part of a song maybe it would be a for i mean but i just can i can i give my own little disclaimer about this i mean yes do what you need to do okay when the credits will we'll play it at the end of the show Okay, but don't, we don't play the whole song, but I just want to say what really was going on. Unless you want to ask me about what was your dream.

I do want to ask. So, okay, so to set it up, you made kind of your version of Seattle grunge, neolithic, rock record, you know, what was on your mind? Like, what made this happen? It's one thing to do one song, but you made a whole ass album out of it. I was observing the landscape at that time as a 20-whatever-year-old woman making music and having success in a very kind of specific couple genres. And looking at other people that seem to be able to just be so, as me and my friend call it so fucking carefree. Like how are you so carefree that you can do whatever you want, you can wear whatever.

you want. Now I guess everybody can, but at the time it was just like, oh, I can, they could just wear like a dirty slip and socks and, you know what I mean? Like in that in that grunge moment, I was jealous. I have to say, I was like, and not that my image was perfect and now if I could go back and unblow out my bangs, I would definitely do that and have different styling and stuff like that. But, you know, so I was looking at it and I was like, because I did grow up listening to like, blondie and, um,

not, not exclusively blonde. I just mean if there were other genres, it would be like, you know, Pat Benatar and blondey and then whatever rock groups. And then, you know,

I was a child of the radio. So I listened to all different things, rock music, whatever, you know, um, mainly obviously like R&B and soul music and gossip and whatever. But then there was also this like, heavy rock quotient that was around, like where I was going.

So yeah, Long Island. Yes. But there was everything. There was obviously there was hip-up. There was this. There was, you know, whatever it was. But there was a very strong thread of that happening, right? So when I saw the whole grunge thing going on, I was looking at it like, oh my gosh,

they just say whatever they want. They say anything that they want. And they get away with it. So I would be like working on. Let's, for example, say, like, one sweet day, like, finishing up mixes or whatever we were doing, overdubs, and the band would be there, like my band from the little touring that I did. So I just, one night was like, I was just singing stuff and making fun of,

like, not making fun of, but just, like, doing my own little impersonations as I do. And then I said to Gary, who was my guitar player at the time, I was like, can you just play? because he's sitting there with his guitar and he was doing overdubts on something totally different. I'm like, can you just play it? Like whatever. So we starts playing it and we just,

that's the song called Joe. That's not the one I would love to hear. I would love to Herman. But so then I just started writing stuff down like anything I wanted to say. Finish it in like five minutes or 10 minutes. And it was for laughs. But then as the projects that like every night

when we would be working and actually like, like the corporate people were on a trip to Italy at that time. So they weren't there to stop the flow. So, wait, what, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You allowed, you allowed Sony brass in your sessions? I had to allow one brass member who was like, who was the brass. The maker of brass. Right.

I forgot. I forgot. Okay. Never. No, nobody else. And he even, he wouldn't allow anybody else in there, but never, never, never during my, vocals was anybody allowed and then they still not. But I'm saying like

they would be a, if they were around it would be like a swift, let me pick you up at seven and we'll go to dinner at La Scala or whatever. And then I had to be in that wifey world of corporate people. So it took me from like a complete creative head to here I am like

I think such and such, you know, we talk about it in the chapter called Thanksgiving is canceled. That's kind of one of my favorite things. And then this year, Thanksgiving really was canceled, so it was ironic. But anyway, so I ended up every night, like recording something new and writing something new. And it was just as a creative outlet. But then I would, then we actually mixed it and did it and recorded it, you know, recorded it, mixed it, mastered it. Would you do it in another room? Because I'm in 95, I don't think it's that. I mean,

now I could tell Steve, all right, put this other song up real quick and he can, you know, sort of with technology and a snap do that. But 95, you're working with reels and that sort of thing. There's still pro tools at that time. So you would just make them erase the board and then put up your reel so you work on your, like, weren't they scared? Like, well, what if Tommy comes in here and sees what we're doing? No, because at a certain point, I told him he knew about it.

But it wasn't like, we had separate reels. Like, I've just found them that say, the name of the group. So after we, you know, the engineer just started rolling. Like, you know, I mean, at that time, it wasn't like we had to worry about, oh, my gosh, a new role of tape. Like, you know, we do what we had to do. And, you know, most of this. Y'all was printing money.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. And we want to do that again, but it's impossible because with streaming, we know that the artist makes less than, you know, what percentage of a penny do the artist make? 0.001, yeah.

Something crazy, yeah. Very small. I failed remedial math, so I don't know how to do that now, but I just know if you did 130 million streams in a week, you should make at least a dollar off that. And you don't. This was a label of love and just this was just me being like, let me just do this, write it down, whatever. The musicians loved it,

because it was totally, it was a total departure from what we were doing and they got to be free. They got to just, we were all kind of in an act. Like, it was an act. It was a, whatever you call it. It was, what do you call, what if you call it, an alt rock, um, alternative rock, uh, what's the future of it? Will, will, well, will, folks ever know, will it all be like a red herring? I feel like if you officially release it, though, the magic ends, like, that's the thing, Prince's the Black album was so legendary

when it was like a secret. Just do one song. And then that shit came out and it was like, yeah. And it came out and there's like, ah, the magic's over. Yeah. To your point about it being, what did you say when you first brought it out?

Oh, doing one song versus doing an album. You did a whole album. And I also, did you see the artwork? I did the artwork myself. I copied and everything. Yes. That's not nice, y'all. This is me.

I'm trying to day, I brought my friend, Clarissa, and I said, you know what? Because certain people were like, oh, you can't put this out there. I also changed the lyrics. So a lot of it was a little bit more with the profanity and stuff. Because that's what I just, no, but he made me change it. And put somebody on it. I know.

But I have the wheels at this point. So at some point, I'm going to put out my own version, but I don't have the board mixes. all I have are like all the separate tracks like 10 guitar tracks and you know all of this. Wow. Mara, do you know what record store day is? Man, man, man. Okay.

Clean be fuck up. I'm going to tell you how to do this, son. So record store day, it happens in the second Saturday of April. And they made a second one. for Black Friday in November. But what it is is sort of sound nerd, audio nerds like us, people, I mean, this is the equivalent

of like New Jordans coming out. So some people will sleep outside of what was formerly known as Amoeba Records in L.A. I mean, it moved to another location. It didn't shut down. But basically, record store day is a day that pretty much everyone lives for in April

to buy like rare you know, somebody, Jack White will print up exclusive joints. Yeah, exclusive. So Jack White will print up like 5,000 copies of some particular like song that, you know, it's either

a 45 or maybe like a 10 inch or whatever. But they do it they do it in small numbers. So it's almost like art. And usually you know, you, somebody will wind up paying like a gazillion dollars on eBay for it or something like that. I think you should make,

I think you should make 5,000 copies of the record that you intended to make and just secretly release it on record store day. And just let the legend of chick go out that way. I agree. And you know what? I think it should be that. And also the artwork should be, I should do the original artwork

and sonic I've freaking people don't even know I literally wrote okay so it's a dead roach that's the cover then it's a lipstick written chick on top of it that I wrote in my handwriting

the title is some ugly daughter that's the title of the album and then the back of the album is a crushed makeup thing of makeup like eyes shadows or pink blue pastels and then I just did like with a fork at the hit factory.

I just like did and then took a picture of it and then wrote all the song titles on the back. And then the CD itself, I did like kissed it. Like it's a whole thing. Like the actual physical CD is amazing. And somebody gave me a copy.

Somebody gave me a copy because I didn't have one. Like, you know, it was for laughs. And then like I did it. And then they ruined it by making it. Not that they ruined it. I love Clements. She did a great job singing on top of it. And we worked on a couple songs.

I didn't send you those two. I did the original album as intended. That's what I sent to you, Amir, but anyway, so it became like a thing where it wasn't allowed to be meaning, or what I was going to do is back then release it, do a total different character visually, and then hopefully have a hit with one of the songs, and then reveal that it was me and be like, huh, because at that time, it was very much like, if you were quote unquote popular on the pop charts, you could not have critical acclaim. They just didn't give it to you.

They just didn't care. It was just like, da-da-da-da. You know, we like this artsy person. We like this edgy person, whatever. And so it was what it was. But at this point, I do think chick means to have its own thing. And I actually been having conversations with someone I'm not going to name about doing like another version of chick, some of those songs and writing a couple new ones.

And I'm asking you now if you will write those with me or at least like explore it. because she's a young 16-year-old girl who is very famous and she's perfect for this. And we've already had conversations about it. And I'm planning on, like, hopefully working on it this coming home. Yo, Billy Alice? No. No. We know that.

I'm like, yo. I actually. No, I'm right. But why, right. Why actually a meal? Why you boo-ishing? Actually, why you bullshit? I know he chose Mariah, but on the real, yeah, Fonte's right.

You talked about it. She and I, she's an actress, but she wants to sing as well. No, it's a good look. It'll work with her too. It'll work. You know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, I know. It'll work.

Okay. It'll work. I think you should definitely do that, Mariah, because I, Out of, I mean, you've been talking now for like three out. Out of everything that you've talked about, this is the most excited you've sounded about anything. Well, because I can talk about my own stop stories all to live long day. But this is something that got splashed. And it's something that's fun.

Like, it's not, you don't sit there and pick apart. I'm not picking apart. And this sounds like you. I mean, it's just from, you know, just sitting here having this conversation, you know, this sounds like the thing that feels like it most represents you you know what I'm saying like seems like true to who you are I mean my music

represents me I'm not saying it doesn't it represents a silly side of me that was at a time really needed an outlet it was a musical but it was for laughs which is how I get through most things is just making jokes and getting through it so it was like

combining two kind of to defend to not defense mechanisms to escape mechanisms. Yeah. You know, to, you know, it was music and it was fun and it was me like just writing for laps. That's why I want to play that song, Hermit, because, but the funny thing is, even my

daughter, Monroe, was like, so she heard it, she heard the song Malibu, and then she heard the rest of the songs, and she just started singing the one hermit that goes, I am in the other, and water. Like, it's in the accent, the whole thing. She heard it. She goes, she's nine. She goes, Mommy, can you? send me the chick's album

and I'm like, oh, yo. Amarison, you promise now. I'm just want to say, it sounds amazing. This record sounds amazing. Yes. We'll have to put this out. We will play it on the fade. We'll play her on the fade. We'll play her on the fade. Yes, we are not editing this out. All right. But wait, Mariah. I don't know how you guys go this long without having music in the background,

to be honest with you. Because this is on Zoom, if this was the real format of the show, then I would have the ability to add music. But I'm going to COVID and Zoom. Oh, I'm a right roll call. That would have been. I know. I miss roll call.

Yeah, I know. I was like, oh, I'm glad I don't have to be put under that pressure with the I miss roll call. But wait, can I ask something, though? So basically what was, what I'm gathering is what was freeing for you and what elated you was sort of the carefreeness of creating music. kind of without a care and being honest and just putting it all out there.

I would have to get through it without laughing some of the time. Like that was part of it. Yeah, but humor, here's the thing though. And even though I'm like, even though I'm clamoring on the mountaintops about your acting, it's really your sense of humor,

which I never knew you had. You know what I mean? No, but that's because if no one cares to know, I can't expect people to know, you know. Like, it's just like, you know. Let me rephrase it. No, I've seen the joke. No, no, no, I'm not on the outside looking in. I've been to many of Mariah concert.

I've, I've know, I know you have a sense of humor. But it's, it's relaxed timing. But what I feel that the white elephant question I want to ask is, like, Would you ever try to create an album in that vein not under the guise of like, well, I'm going to do a music genre that's totally the opposite of what I'm known for? Would you not ever try to exercise that sort of freedom in your actual Mariah career? Not like, hey guys, let's have some fun and do an alternative rock record, or let's do a Samba record, or let's do a Afro beat record.

And I hear what you're saying, but I never said to them, let's do an alternative rock album. I was just in that era when all that stuff was huge. And they happened to be very talented musicians in the room who could easily pull that off. And actually, sometimes we deliberately did stuff not perfectly. Right, yeah, you had to play down. But it was fun. And like, it was just fun.

So to answer your question, I would love to do, honestly, I have another concept that I want to told to you about that we also kind of touched on. And I would do whatever. Like, no, I don't want to ever. I'm not inspired to do a Samba record. I'm not inspired to do, like, whatever. I mean, I would totally do something that's not my genre.

Here was the great thing about that moment. It was just free. It was just free. And I know people experience that without having an alternative, or whatever. Like most people experience that. I'm sure when you're making music most of the time, it's out of joy. Like, I don't know. I can't be sure by anything, but it's not, it's not constantly nitpicking yourself or putting yourself like, oh, I hate that. Let me do it again. Like that's, that's how I am. I put myself. Is it easy for you to create and craft songs

without having to also be your judge and jury an executioner. Like, you know, to the point where, okay, I have to make sure that this is notes correct. Like, I'm a guy that loves, I love mistakes. I love imperfection. You know, I love wrong notes. I love bending notes. I love, you know, I love imperfection so much. Like, but could you, do you think you could ever, like,

let your allow yourself to be that free. Yeah. And put it out or just do it for laughs. No, put it out as not as like a side, silly project. Put it out as Mariah Carey. It depends on what it was.

I would have to be in the room and feel what we're doing. Like, what's the inspiration? What are we doing? Like, where are we coming from? Like, yeah, we could, I would all day, experiment all day. I'm not going to commit to, Prior to, oh yeah, this is definitely coming out.

I would have to love to live with it, you know. Okay. What's your thought, Amir? Well, this is the thing. I'm glad we finally did this interview so we can have normal conversations because you and I have been cat and mousing for so long because I wanted our initial conversation to be this podcast. I get not nerd out on you in real life. So.

What? Y'all been talking this whole time. He does one. Yeah, but I mean like I've, I've been purposely holding back because usually when I start friendships, it starts in the guise of journalists and that makes people uncomfortable. Like, hey, by the way, when you did that to cord and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, I wanted to get that out the way here. What brought y'all two together anyway? The book, really?

The book. I love the book. That's right. Oh, there's him hitting you up about the food of the Ritz Cracker. Yeah, exactly. The book strung me in. So, yeah, now a friendship can form. That's dope.

No, it really meant so much to me because, you know, you are an incredible writer and your level of knowledge is just, you know, as we all know. Thank you. So, no, but it's true. But then the whole thing with the food in the book, it's a thing. It can really. How did the linguine turn out? It was one of the best years, I got to say. It was definitely one of these Christmases.

I got to try this linguine. It's like daddy's linguine. Your dad's clam sauce. She only does it for Christmas. That's the part I text the mirror about it. I was like, I want some of that. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I tell you, it's really good.

And I didn't even know the secret ingredient with the onions. Because for years, I was like, why can't I find any restaurant that makes my dad like makes better than my dad's Linguine with white clams sauce. Like these Italian restaurants, even in Italy, they don't do it as well. I was like, what is it that, you know, a black man from Harlem made... You just said it. You just said it. There it is.

But they didn't tell. Like, he didn't, I never had the recipe. And then, like, the year before he died, he gave me the actual recipe and wrote it down. And then I, yeah. And then I, who's the best gift he ever gave me? And then I realized what I was doing wrong. I never saw him put onions in it as a kid. But they liquefying the PM.

That's the secret. So every year now I just do it. And it's this Christmas Eve. It's every Christmas Eve. I just decided I'm not doing Christmas in there with the traditional nonsense. It was a mess this year. No offense to the chef or whatever. But the turkey was dry and everything.

You cooked? You cooked last Christmas? You cooked? Last Christmas? Oh, we're in January now, so. Yes, yes. I cook my dad's recipe for liquid white clam sauce cream. And then I did Christmas dinner, but I supervised it, but not well enough.

See, it's a constant theme. You have to micromanage everything. And I'm so tired of it. Anybody listening to this podcast, please DM me. If you're not a psycho and you just want a job as like a facilitator, you feel that you really want to be involved on a level with. We're going to get to a very, very different level starting this year. Don't do that.

Wait, you're talking about food? No, no. I'm talking about administrative assistant. I'm talking about executive assistant. Mariah is hiring and you do not want that trouble. Mariah Carey's hiring. We can't even organize this freaking podcast. This came off without a hitching.

Mariah. No, I appreciate you. You truly let your guard down. I don't think you've ever given a three-hour interview before. I haven't. So I feel honored and I feel the love that you trusted me so much to do this for me. Yes. Even when you agreed, I was like, oh, man, this might be like Michelle Obama, like 25 minutes.

Oh, my God. No, I'm not enjoying hanging out with you guys and having a splash and stuff. And thank you for having me and everything else. Mariah, we thank you so much for doing this for us. Thank you so much. And thank you for the music. Thank you for everything. I'm caring.

So yes, for the year, guys. Don't forget anything. I'm hiring. Oh, my God. I'm going to take that off the podcast. You're just,

you're serious. Jesus Christ. You need to make sure to get me somebody for real. There's no. I got you. I got you. You can help you with that. I got you.

I'm an expert in this area. I got you. Mariah, thank you for sharing your truth. It was a beautiful story. I mean, I know a lot of it was hard, but thank you for sharing.

It was really brave. Yes, we appreciate it. All right. On behalf of Laia, Sugar Steve, Fantigolo, and unpaid bill, you missed one unpaid bill.

Your fault, bro. Love you guys. Thank you. We love you back. All right. Cheers, darling. Bye. Bye. Cheers.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I know we made a promise. This is a hermit from the lost Mariah Carey Chick project, which is actually kind of dope. I dick it. Hope you do too. All right. See you. Yo, what's up?

This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe. for our podcast. All right. Peace. West Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. For more podcasts from Iheart Radio, visit the Iheart Radio app, Apple

Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building

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