The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Marley Marl

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Marley Marl shares some of his studio secrets and talks about how he earned his spot as a legend in the early NYC scene. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast, guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

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He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Gorsloves Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Yo, yo, check it out. It's Fonte, Fontigolo, here with this week's QLS Classic. All right, this week we talked to the man, the men for the legend, Molly Mall. This one was originally released January 11th, 2017, and listen, it's Molly Mall.

You already know it is, Molly Mall, juice crew. We're talking everything, LL, Mama's that knock you out. He shares some of the studio secrets and talks about how he earned his spot as a legend in the early New York City scene. This is an incredible episode with one of my favorite producers of all time. Get into it. QLS Classic. All right. Peace.

Supraima roll call Supremia Subrama Road call Suprema Supraima Subrima roll call Suprema

Subrima So prima Role Call My name is Questo Yeah I know the time Weep in to rock this Yeah

At the drop of a dime Baby Pro forma Supraima Subrima Role Call Suprima Submma

Submma Roe Call. My name is Fonte. Yeah. I got so much soul. Yeah. Quest Love Supreme. Yeah.

And we in control. Roca. Suprema, Subrema, Role Call. Supremma, Subrema, Supremma, Roe Call. My name is Steve.

Yeah. Without a flaw. Yeah. They call me sugar. Yeah. Because I get raw. Roll call. Supremma.

Roca. Subremma. Roe call. Supreme. Subrema Roll Call. Hop on pay bill. Yeah. To the extreme.

Yeah. Dropping bars. Yeah. Quest love Supreme. Ro car. Supremma, Supremma Roe call. Supremma,

Subremma, Role Call. When it comes to rhyming, I have no skills. Yeah. So what's my name? Yeah. Just call me boss Bill.

Roll car. Supriva, Suh, Supriva. Supriamma. Roe Call, Supremma, Subremia, Submina, Role Call. My name Blackie, yeah. With New Year's Blessers.

Yeah. Can't wait to play. Yeah. Bitch, you guessed it. Roe Call. Supremma, Subrema, Role Call. Supremma, Subremma, Role Call.

Your name is Molly. Yeah. It's all on me. Yeah. When we get through, yeah. You do a symphony. Oh, car. Suprema, Subima Rocah, Subrema, Subrema,

Rocah, Subrema, Subrema, Supreme, Roe call. Subrema, Subrema, Rocaw, Ladies and Gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, whoo. Welcome to another episode of Quaslove Supreme, the first of this new year. Happy New Year to all of you.

Yeah, Supremeers. Yes, we made it. We made it. We made it. Yes. did not jinx ourselves at all last year. We did not jinx ourselves whatsoever. No.

I'm your host, Questlove, and we have another really great show in store for you. On the show today, we have one of the most important people in hip-hop history. And that's no... And that's not an exaggeration. No. And I'm known to exaggerate.

I'm known to go full extreme on everything. No. No, no, seriously. No, we know. Sarcats. No, seriously, I wouldn't lie to you. No, for real. This man is a pioneer, and he is history.

And I don't want to make it sound like it's old in the past. But this man is one of the most important figures in my opinion. Now, his DNA runs through everybody. Yes, in the development of some of the best moments in hip-hop history. Hey, hey, hey, I don't breathe dust now. Let's welcome our elder. No, I'm playing. Ladies and gentlemen, let's just give it up from Marley Mall.

Hey, how's going on? What's going on, family? Hello. How are you? How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

I got to be here. You know you called and I got to come at the drop of a dime. Yeah, see? You came. You came. Yes. We have so many questions. For starters, I'm really glad that you're here because for all of the full of

folklore that we've heard about hip hop history in the Bronx and the Bronx and the Bronx and the Bronx and the Bronx and the Bronx. I know that the other burles have their history too, and that's rarely, rarely, rarely heard about. No doubt, no doubt. And I know that you were born in Queens, Queens Bridge Projects, you know, I'm 96 Buildings of Terra, aka, you know, but that's why I was brought up in LIC, Queensbridge Projects. Really? So you were born there and you Born and raised there. I lived there all my life. I mean, my mom's, she was there before I was born, you know. Oh, wow.

And then, you know, then when I was born, then we moved to another apartment, and then we was there for 40 more years. You know, I'm lucky enough to be able to get my mom's a house in my career later on in life and finally move out the project. But my mom was there for over 40 joints. Wow. So what was... Hardcore.

So what was, what is the history? of hip hop coming to Queens. Like, to hear the folklore say it was only in the Bronx and only in the Bronx. But I mean, for you to be as legendary as you were, are you telling me that you had to travel all the way to the Bronx to get? Well, the first time I ever heard hip hop,

it was I was in high school, because we had DJs in Queens. It was more on the disco tip. You know, because when you look at hip hop and what they did for it and coined the phrase hip hop around what they were doing, it was a little bit different from what everybody else was doing in the city. You know, when Cool Herk had his parties,

he was playing the break parts of the music. In Queens, they was playing the whole record. The whole song. The whole song. Okay. But they was taking the break sections. And, you know, that's why I could say that, you know, everybody had DJs.

Everybody had their movement. Everybody had their toasters on the mic. But I could tell you that that hip-hop element, it definitely came from Cool Herk because he was the first person. And maybe it wasn't on beat. You get what I'm saying? I heard a lot of the tapes. Right, right, right.

Chiqua, right, there you are. It wasn't really on beat. But, you know, they were, they brought something different. They was playing that, the break big part of Apache where in Queens we had played the whole record. So did you just come out the gate level music? Like, how did music into your life, like in your childhood? It got to me because my older brother, Larry Laugh, in the record, the Bridge. Larry Laugh?

The third least night last year. Like, Jappy Jazz. gas, cool brother by the name of gas, T. Tom, and then my brother Larry Ladd. It was early DJs in Queensbridge in the bridge record. Okay. Because in the bridge record, we was just stating, you know, what we saw growing up. Right. So we were stating the things that we saw.

We never said hip hop started in that rhyme. Oh, we know that. Yeah, we know that. But, you know, we just was describing things we've seen growing up. And my older brother was a DJ. And, you know, my stepfather kind of, you know, talk them out of being a DJ. Like, yo, you know, there's no real money in that. Now, you know, going to service, man, going to service.

So he went to service. Fall back on something. Yeah, yeah. You know, but it was all good because he went to the service and he worked at NASA and retired from NASA, so he did really well. Okay. You know, I took the DJ route. Yeah, I was going to say, who inherited the records?

Yeah, that's why, you know, my record, my library is kind of extensive because I got their records. When he left, I had Hitachi. I had, you know, a lot of the records that I was sampling. was their records. So you had the natural version, not the ultimate beats of Briggins. That's right.

I had the original. The African one with the other beat on the other side. Right. The colorful one. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So what was Diggin like back then if there wasn't a thing as digging culture?

I mean, for me, digging was just going to my brother's crates at that stuff they used to play because they were dancer guys. They was, you know, they was breakdances before breakdance. Everybody was a dancer or every DJ crew had like they dance. crew with them. I could just say it like that. Just to spice up the party. There you go. So in the older records they used to play, digging for me was just going to my brother's old records that they used to play because I used to see them play a lot of records. And by the time

I got to be a DJ, I would remember a lot of stuff that would make the party move. And I would just go right into my brother's records. And then, to be honest, a lot of the records that I would find and start sampling, then they would make those breakbeat records after. What years is this around? My brother, I started DJing around. around about 78 or 77 I got the bug. There was like a song called Disco 77 out. It had drums on it and you know and I heard that. I was like, oh, okay.

And I played out of, you know, a house party in Queens, it was probably around that time. But before that, my brother and them was DJing in the park. They was the first DJs to come out in Queensbridge. Okay. It was the first time, you know, Ground Zero hip hop was my brother in them doing they break, they dancing and all that.

in the middle of the block. And so, you know, then everybody else started DJing out there. So would they, they would throw the parties in? Yeah, they would throw the parties in Queens, and Queensbridge Center. Or they would be on the block first. Then it got so big, they had to take it to the river park across the street,

Queensbridge Park. So how, in my mind, I'm thinking the folklore of, you know, the park jam that you always hear hip-hop historian speak of. Yeah. All right, being as though you've seen every level of presentation from the part jams to full-blown concerts. Straight from the tapes. You got to start with the tapes that was just circulating the city first.

But what I want to know is what were the sound systems really like? Oh, okay. Well, I could tell you, to be honest, I'm going to just go down the line. The Bronx, they had, like, a lot of house speakers put together. You'd like a lot of people putting their, you know, like house speakers. Yeah, putting their house speakers together, piling them up, taping them together. And that's how they used to come out, which was cool, because, you know, you had to use what you had.

Right. In Queens, they had a little bit more money, so the sound systems was a little better. King Charles and these guys used to come out with, you know, they had Richard Long systems. Really? How? Where did you store them?

Believe me, King Charles and they had, I believe they had the Richard Long system, and, you know, twins had Richard Longs. Disco twins had Richard Long Berthus. The Queens guys was coming out with their births, then Brooklyn now, since the Caribbean and Brooklyn was always bumping forever, you know, there was always Eastern Parkway,

so that rubbed up on the DJs. So when you was coming through on Eastern Parkway with the Jamaican music, somebody figured out, yo, it don't got to be playing Jamaican music with this sound. You could put hip, you could put disco. Regular records. Yeah, regular records.

So Brooklyn was banging with systems because Eastern Parkway was always the shit. Okay. And it kind of rubbed off because you got to think about, This is what's never mentioned in hip hop and the creation of hip hop and out was formed. Jamaica has a big influence on how it was started here. Yeah.

You look at the main people, the main players, Herc. You know, the system guys, you know, the sound system guys used to come out. You know, what's his name, Pete DJ Jones and them, you know, all these guys used to come out with big systems. What's his name? King Charles was Jamaican. He had one of the biggest systems in the city.

back in the day. So just to let our listeners know, in Jamaica, like the more bass you had, the more bass cabinets you had, you know, stomach rumbling inducing basses, that was the important factor. Right, now when you speak with Cool Herk, he was basically probably jamming, bringing his music out for what he's seen

when he was in Jamaica as a kid. The music was always out. He got to America, y'all was boring around here. Bringing the music out. Right. What you're talking about? I see. Bringing the call.

Let's go to the park. Let's have a party over it. Bring the music out. What are you talking about? Let me show you what I'm talking about. He did it. Then he probably got bored of playing the whole record. The get down part.

Oh, that's the part that everybody gets excited about. I'm going to do a whole party with just playing those. That's what he said. And that's how it started. I'm just going to play the hot parts of the records. That's it. You were playing these parks in 77? No.

I was watching the disco twins. My brother and them was playing probably about 75-ish, 74-ish and 3-ish. By then my brother went to the service. I started seeing the disco twins come. I got in high school. I heard rap for the first time. And, you know, I had to form my own little crew.

I was a little DJ around the way. We wasn't doing, we wasn't rocking breakbeats. We just, we was doing what we saw. Okay. You get what I'm saying? So we saw the disco twins in our area. So obviously we're following that. But when I heard rap and got my crew together, the game changed.

I'm assuming that around 78. 79 it hits you or like how do those tapes come from the Bronx how do they go to Queens like all right so it was it was weird because those tapes in the early part of hip hop when you know when they was only doing in the Bronx and Harlem those tapes would go throughout the city like fucking like the internet right okay okay they was spread throughout town like the internet everybody would be coming to school with one of those tapes and you know it was the greatest thing about that time you know the the schools were so integrated in New York City at that point. You have people from Harlem in your school.

You have people from the Bronx in your school. You know, you have people from Queens. So one good thing I can say about the schools in New York City, you was able to see everybody's style because everybody was, it was all integrated. You know, people were from Manhattan in your school, so you got to see what they was doing in Manhattan. I was in a school called Manhattan High. We had dudes from the Bronx.

So what were they doing at lunchtime? If somebody wasn't over there beating on the table, somebody was coming through the big radio playing a breakout tape with echoes and everybody's like oh and I'm like I heard somebody rhyming over a dance for the drum as beat it changed my life really yeah that changed my life I heard so this is way before rappers delight and yeah yeah

yeah this before rapids delight I heard it was just a breakout tape and you know it was dancer drum as beat and of course they was cutting it off beat because you know they didn't probably have cue yet but he was up there talking and going freak out out and they had the echo on it and it was

And he was going, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yo. And the echo out, yo, me and Polo looked at each other, because Polo was in my school, DJ Polo. DJ Polo, okay. He was in my school. We looked at each other like, yo, what the fuck is that? Wow. And, yo, the rest was like, it was, yo, I went and started a crew,

a Shawshot crew in Queensbridge after that, and I was on my way. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, personal health, personal health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

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As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice has served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At Queensbridge at this time. Like, if you live there all your life, are you recognizing a three-year-old Nazeer Jones? Do you see, like, oh, that's five-year-old prodigy. The little guns. The toy guns in the window.

It wasn't quite like that. The funny thing about a prodig wasn't from the bridge, but Havoc, he actually lived in Burnoff Fowler's building because there's so much Burnoffalo from the Peace Boys that also stands. Make me wait? Oh, crap. He lived there, too? Yeah, he's from QB. Damn. He sings with the Rolling Stones right now.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's, they lived in the same building. Damn. Like lightning struck twice in that building. So the Peach Boys, that whole family is from that. Burnerfowler and his brother, Fred.

Yeah. And his sister. Damn. They from Queensbridge. I never knew that. Yeah, they're from Queensbridge. Okay. Now, I was in the next building from that, making all my hits.

Really? Yeah, that was on 12th Street. So I used to hear Havik's uncle blasting the music out of his window on the fourth because the Fowler's, I think they lived on the first or the second in the building. And then the funny thing, Dipples D lived in the next building. So it was a lot happening on 12th Street right there. So you would have the system battles of the windows? Yes, yes, yes, and right in the windows.

Your own radio station. It was battling right out the window. And that was the house where I made, like Eric Wry's president. That was the house where I would watch the people walk across the block and go to the train station if they wouldn't stop dancing, if they wouldn't stop and start dancing, I would scrap the beat.

What? Right. So I knew I was blasting them out of the middle. Nobody would stop and go, oh, oh, oh. I would probably scrap the beat and start something else until I see somebody do that. And those are most of the beats that I kept. That's dope research.

We should go back. It's like your Barry Gordy sandwich test. Yeah, yeah. A dollar of this sandwich. You know what I told you by. Where do you make the transition from? Because I guess the first time that I heard of you, that Aleem's record was really, really big in Philadelphia.

Three years, ysale. And that was Leroybubh Burgess, right? Yes, it definitely wasn't Yalim's. What's funny about that is like, that's where I was headed. The kind of, okay, explain to me the edit culture, Because I know that between like 82 and 84, there was like the Latin rascals. I mean, who else was in that world

where they used those like the art of noise, hard drums? You know what I mean? Jelly bean was in that? Yeah, like Jellybean was in that. So you were about to go that route first? Yeah, I was there because, you know, you got to think. Like, you know, the great Daryl Payne also lived on my block in Queensbridge, too. Okay.

So he wrote a lot of records like, thanks to you. Yeah. And, you know, I can't even sit here and mention all his records, but he lived on the block, too. So Andre Booth was there. It was like, it was so musical in Queensbridge. These guys had records before me on the radio. You know, Andre Booth made this beat his mind, rock shock and all of that.

All these dudes lived in my hood. And I'm looking at these guys like, wow, these are guys. Their music is on the radio. I'm not even a DJ yet. I'm trying to hang around these guys. You got what I'm saying? And, you know, and figure out what they're doing in the students. And Andre gave me a shot to hang out and he introduced me to Arthur Baker.

And then that's how I started, you know, that's how I started. Matter of fact, the first session I ever went to with him was Jazzy's sensation. So you were an apprentice of Arthur Baker? Yes. Yeah. Explains him with Arthur Baker was. Dog, the things you learn. Teach us all.

So, Arthur Baker is, I mean, pretty much, you know, for Planet Rock. What was the Breakers' Revenge on the Beat Street? And I believe did he not have a handing Candy Girl as well? About saying, yeah. Of course, of course. Street-Wodd. That's why Dempel's D record was on Streetwise. Party Time.

My first record. Boy, I thought it was Sucker DJs. Yeah, Sucker DJs. That was on Party Time. The Party Time. It was on Party Time label. That was- Because I remember it's yours being on Party Time, Def Jam. Right.

So who owned Party Time? That was Arthur Baker, I believe. And I think later on they broke off and went with Russell with that. I do believe I could have been involved. So you mean to tell me that Rick Rubin and Arthur Baker could have been a combo? And it fell apart and then were... I don't know. The things you learn.

Yeah, they could have been. Or the things I had to investigate. Yeah, yeah. So by that point, like what... How legendary was Arthur Baker's status? To be honest, when he first heard my... D. Demples D demo, he was working in a warehouse and a story of Queens. Oh, man.

Okay. We went to go see him at the warehouse at lunchtime. So it was nothing popping for him yet. Not even Planet Rock or... He's just starting the label because we had party time and that was the beginning of the label. That was like one of the first two records off the label. So when he first started dropping hits, dropping his joints, he heard my demo at lunch break in the story at a warehouse. Next to the story of projects.

So he's working. What equipment now around, I guess this is 83, 82, 83, or what equipment are you using at this time? I had a four-track cassette in my house, a task scam that I borrowed from my dude Paul. It wasn't even mine. Okay. So you were just using that. And that's when I made Molly Scratch off that one.

But I'm saying like what drum machine, what drum device? I had, Molly Scratch, I made it off of my 808 triggered by my Cog SD. It was a sample of R-delay for one second sampler R-delay. But the important part on it, it had trigger inputs on the back. So that enabled me to trigger off my 808 to whatever sound I had in there. So that's how I was able to make my beats. So this is leading me to believe. It's science.

It's science. Science. This is leading me to believe that you actually read the manual instructions on your drum machines. Because with most people I know, they were just like, I taught myself or blah, blah, blah, taught me. I learned trigger. I call it Triggerology from working at unique recording. Because, you know, if I was working there with authoring them, believe me, every record that was ever made in that era was made at unique. So what was he working on?

They was already into triggering, like, they was already into triggering drum sounds on all they dance. stuff. Wow. Already. So can you explain how that, because it sounded so it sounds so futuristic. I mean, especially in 83, 84.

I mean, this is pretty much the club breakdance soundtrack of that period. Right. But this is not made with musicians. I mean, first of all, were you just accepting of the fact that there has to be a new way to make music and make dance music

and all this technology I have to learn. Yeah, I mean... Especially at that studio. Yeah, I was very, very, very fortunate because the guy Bobby Nathan at Own Unique, he was like a tech head. Anything that came out, he would want to be the first studio in New York to have it.

Come make your shit in over here because we got the Sinclavia. They had the Sinclavia before anybody had it. They had the Sinclavia. They had the simulator. Failed like they had that They had everything before everybody They had the emulator

They had everything That's how I was playing the emulator And release yourself They didn't even have a 1200 out yet Let me I do want to play that version What makes it Because you're not

You didn't produce the actual Leroy Burgess produced Right It was them and them and the alims The Aleems was brothers The Aleems are the twin brothers What's so weird about this Is that women's got to Philadelphia

Like this is on side too It's like the dove version. Right. But somehow that became the only version to play. I've never even heard the actual proper, the radio edit, like. So, yeah, okay, this definitely ruled my summer in Philadelphia during all the 80s. This is Release Yourself.

The Molly Mall remix by the, what they were called the Fantastic. Fantastic Galemes. Yeah, the Fantastic Galemes. You got to put that in that. It's course love is Supreme. Only on Pairn, do it. So that was release yourself. Woo.

One of the, was this is your first remix or? That was actually one of my first remixes that I've done. That was one of the hottest ones. And that's where I was going. Musically, that's where I was going. I was not even thinking about hip-hop. Yeah, I read in your interview with NPR a couple years ago, you were saying that you were kind of headed more towards the electronics side of thing.

Yeah, come on, I grew up off of Georgia O'Morota, bro. George O'Morota made me a producer. He made me want to get into technology because they was doing things way before everybody in Germany. You got to hear, they was triggering in the 60s. Come on, sir. I'm looking at these guys like, yo, they way ahead of everybody over here. I'm trying to be like them.

How do they make I feel, love, sound like that? It bugged me out. So by that point, your goal was to elevate club music and like what was your feelings of hip hop at the time? You were looking at hip hop. I didn't like hip hop. I was a... Wait, what?

I did not expect that. No, no, no. You know, I liked hip hop tapes. I loved the hip hop tapes, but I didn't like hip hop records. Really? I didn't really like hip hop records. I was like, come on. So when you heard love rap, when you heard love rap, you weren't like, I got to grab four of these or...

Love rap. That was later on. Love rap was a little bit later. Well, no, no, I just. And there was some notable, oh shit moments. That was kind of like later on. But the early joints, like the King Tims, come on, bro. You get what I'm saying?

Even as a DJ, you didn't think like, okay, this will keep the party going. This is what the kids want? Nah. That is shocking to hear of the god of hip-hop culture. But you got to think about at the time. Right, you have to think about the time. That's why I had to come change things. Hear me out.

Hear me out. You got to hear me out. You know what I'm saying? Because first, I'm like, yo, I don't really, I don't like where it's going because when I first heard rap, it was off of a tape, it was scratching, right? It was echoes, it was break beats, it was like an occasional gunshot from a fight at the, you know,

because the tapes should sometimes end with a shootout. Oh, yeah, everybody's scuffling and running, and it's the end of the tape. Oh, it was a shootout. Oh, the party was the shit. But anyway. But, you know. So once it got on wax, you felt it got too homogenized.

I felt that it did. didn't sound like what I fell in love with. It wasn't James Brown. You get what I'm saying? I see. It was water down. The tapes I was getting, come on, you throw in on a funky drum and they rhyming with the echoes over that.

Now you want to give me a band playing good times? Yeah. And I'm supposed to be impressed. After I was been cutting up good times and seeing the crowd react to how they react to the real stuff and the real D and the real emcee on it. So when the records came out, I was like, nah, it ain't like that.

That's weird because, I mean, having no knowledge of that, I mean, I would listen to, I would listen to something like, okay, take like Shooky Hook groove. I knew about Catcher Groove because I grew up next door to a DJ. Right. So I always remembered hearing. The real one. Right. And always knows he always played, like our rooms were adjacent to each other. in our household.

So I always remember that break as a drummer. I remember that break. And didn't put two and two together that like, oh, okay, Sugar Hill is just approximating. It didn't hit me until I was older that I got what they were doing. The technology wasn't there

to really to really reproduce what that moment was. So you're saying that by that point, nothing on Sugar Hill impressed you as much. No, I was not impressed. Because, you know, even when I had the DJ for Magic, I wasn't a hip hop DJ. I was a blender. I was playing in the

clubs already. I was doing disco. So what was the first record that you heard on waxed beyond your own? That you was like, all right, maybe. It could have been maybe around love rap because the beat was so hot. That sounded like a breakbeat

to me, so that's when it got a little better. But the earliest shit, I couldn't stomach it. I was like, nah, this shit ain't going nowhere, but. Yo, B, this shit ain't going no way. I'm saying in my mind. But, you know, it kept going, and then Mr. Magic started playing it. And I wasn't even listening to Mr. Magic when I was.

So was he established before you even started DJing with him? Yes, he was on the radio playing rap music already. How early was it? I was a disco DJ playing at Pegasus. He was on a radio playing rap. Okay. At what point was he on the radio? He went to W.HBI.

It had to be, like, It had to be like 70... It's in the 70s or something. Oh, so he has long history. Yeah, 78, 79. It's maybe early 80s, something like that. Okay. He started going on the radio.

But at that point, I wasn't even into the... I wasn't even... I was going to believe that I wasn't going to where until it started getting a little better. When did it get better to you? Sucker MCs. Ah. So tell me about Larry.

Right. Sucker MCs gave me hope. It gave me so much hope I made Sucker DJs my first record That's a mighty statement You know what I'm saying I want to run Sucker DJs real quick

So Dimmles D Dendple's D from your building What building was she in? She's from 12th Street in Queensbridge She lived in that same royal buildings Burn off Fowler and Havoc and I lived in Okay so this is your official first production Yeah my official first production

The response to Sucker MC's from run DMC Was that a gym The other night I was feeling real good So the feeling was right. I came to the party for a different kind of action. The next thing I know, I was doing a microjack. And I was wrong.

This is Questlove Supreme On Pandora. You just heard Sucker DJs by Dimples D. And today's guest, legendary DJ and hip-hop producer, Molly Mall. This is on a Lindrum. Lindrum, I didn't even start. And I went to Unique. I rented two hours a time. It was $35 an hour.

You had to rent it? Yes, I had to rent it. You couldn't do it by on their back? No, no, no. I wasn't even working at you. I just lived in the neighborhood. The studio was up the street. I heard they had a lind drum in there.

And I got, it was 35 hours in now. I got two hours of time. I went in there and tapped out a few beats and recorded them on my four track. And I took the four track home and she did her vocals in my living room. Wow. So the setup in your house,

I believe the rock and roll hall of fame has a mock. Have you seen it? It's like a mock setup of what your studio would look like. At least at the time when I was visiting, in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. This was like back in 2004 or 2005. No doubt. What is your home system looking like at this point?

I had like a little four track, a sunboard, and that was it. So what were your neighbors thinking at this moment? They probably was thinking, I wish he would turn that shit down sometime. And take the speak out the damn window. So at that time, in the 80s, did you feel secure with, like, your livelihood inside that building or was it just that you never left it for anything to happen?

No, I just never left it for anything to happen. Plus, I was the neighborhood DJ that people was getting famous and people would sit outside my building just to see who was coming to my house. So it was all good at that point. Okay, I want to ask about your pop art, period. Yeah, yeah.

Because I initially thought you were a Philly guy. Right, a lot of people. I'm from Philadelphia. You know, I got a shout Philly out. How did you meet the good? Dude, Philly put me on really in hip hop, man. I got to say it because if it wasn't for Lawrence and then with Roxanne's Revenge, Roxanne's revenge was pinnacle for me.

Okay. That was like a pinnacle point in my career when I got taken serious after that. Before that I was, you know, DJ doing this around doing this, you know, trying to put out these other records and these songs. No. After the dimples, it blew up and Philly put me on. They put us on. Just to let our listeners know.

So around 1984, a group of Brooklyn producers, full force, right, right, right. Put together a record called Roxanne Roxanne. That's right. UTFO. Actually, am I incorrect for saying that that might be the first time that an actual breakbeat was used on modern hip-hop? Because Big Beat,

That's right. Was on the educated rapper's second verse. That's right. So I don't know what it was about this record. But, I mean, it's the typical storyline of three guys trying to kick it to a female. Right. And they all get rejected. Right.

And somehow, I mean, this was one of the first viral moments. I mean, if social media were invented, this would be the number one trending topic. Because as a result, so many response records came out for Roxanne, Roxanne. And we didn't even mean, I didn't even mean for it to be a record. Once again, this was another Molly Mall exclusive. I went to have a special record for me being a DJ and someone heard it and made a record out of it. I was going to say like, you're first, dub plate. Right.

I wanted a dub plate special with a female talking about I'm Roxanne. And I played it on Mr. Magic show and it was fire. It was like I played a few days before Christmas. By Christmas Eve, it was number one on Billboard. How did you meet Roxanne Chante? She lived on my block in Queensbridge, and she, you know, I used to always see her in Seifers on the block. You know, she used to always be in the cyphers her, a dude named Infinite and MC Shan.

It was like battling everybody on 12th Street. And I used to always see them. You know, one day she was doing her laundry. She said, you know, she said, yo, I'm on my door. You know, you like that Roxanne record? I said, yo, she's like, yo, I got something for that. I'm thinking to myself, well, I can have a special dub play. Oh, come do that.

So she came, we dub-plated it up in one take, and she ran back down and was doing her laundry. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, what? She did it between the laundry break? Yes, yes. The spin cycle, brother. Near my telekis. Seriously, near one take?

Yeah, near one take. One take. I had one cassette playing the instrument through and the other cassette recording, and she got on the mic, did her thing in one take, ran back downstairs, and the next week she was a star. Are there two versions of that song? Yes, we had to redo it.

Yeah, I feel like I've heard the original 12-inch I heard. With the ashy-ashy one. That was the assy. Yo, let me explain. It wasn't as exciting, but then I heard a version where she's like really screaming. Let me explain. The first version that came out, they took the version that we played on the radio and pressed that one up, and that was the first batch of records that went out.

The version I played off the radio, I didn't give him the master. We gave him a copy of us playing it on the radio. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. That's why he said that because he said it on the radio. Oh, my goodness. I thought that was part of the record. Oh, no, that was him live on the radio saying, oh, my goodness, after he played it.

We got to play this. Yo, this is Roxanne's Revenge on Quest Love Supreme, only on Pandora with the great Mollie. We'll be right back. Guys, and you know which, too. Let me tell you and explain them. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd

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We're here talking to hip-hop producer Marley Moore about his days as a legend in the making. And also a hook singer. Mar-all the singing days. So were you a part of the other Roxanne's that came on? Because I saw Roxanne's doctor. I know, I know. How many total Roxanne? Well, there was the real Roxanne.

It was the real Roxanne. The real Roxanne Chanté. The real Roxanne was the Puerto Rican girl. Right. With the blonde hair. Yeah. That was full force is Roxanne. Okay.

Dr. Roxanne Chante is original. Yeah, right. She was the first one. Okay. There you go. She was the first one. So at any point was there, I mean, in our heads, we're just thinking like, oh, man, bloodshed catfights going to happen.

But at any point, did you ever kick it with full force or the thought of the idea of, you know, doing something? together or whatever. No, I think that one right out the window as soon as they came with the, you know, they tried to do a real Roxanne. Yeah. But she was, she was dope. I mean, she didn't have the fire of Shantay, but she was really dope. And, you know, after that, I mean, Shantay was the last one standing at the end of the day.

Chantay was really, the first one that did it. She was on all the tours. She got on fresh fest with all that. You get what I'm saying? She had us on private planes real quick. Really? And I ain't even have a call yet. So at this rate, you're saying that this was catching on national.

Yeah, we had sometimes three shows in one day, and we had a private plane, so we could be here, go there, and then go to the next show, and just, you know, so this was just away from, like, what were the gigs like? Was it just tri-state northeast? We would go, you know, we would go to, we went to Cincinnati, then we would go to, what's that, Pennsylvania. Okay. Then we'll go to, you know, maybe Ohio or something like that.

We would do it like that. And just hit the one song and one and done, and that's it. Two songs and be out. You know, one song, and I play the 808 when I was just doing a freestyle, and then we'd be out. Really? Now, this point. She'll pick somebody out of the crowd to this and get the crowd amped up.

So she was on a Millie Jackson, Joe. Who taught it? Like, so are you, are you, who's teaching the entertainment aspect of, of your juice crews. Are you giving suggestions? Let me tell you something. Mr. Magic was very... If you think he was rude on the radio

to other artists, you couldn't imagine how he would be to us as artists. Like, you ain't wearing that shit on stage with us. You're not going out like that. Oh, motherfucker, you ain't ready. He told Kane many of times, you ain't going out on stage with your hair like that.

And then that's when Kane got started getting a high top fade. What did it happen before? You had a big old Afro. What? Yeah. He's 70s. That's what I'm trying to say.

Oh, damn. Mr. Magic would hate it me. I know. Mr. Magic. No. He's like, you can't go on stage like that

and represent with us. Then all of a sudden, Kane came back with the high top fake. There you go. But it worked because he's kind of marketing them looking like, you know, you're going to be the ladies man.

You can't be the ladies man like that. So, oh, there you go. Now that's the look what we're looking for. And they went with it. And that's why Kane was the sex symbol out of us. So I guess we should, we should know. that what's notable

about Marley's presence in hip-hop is the fact that, you know, you represent, will represent a wave of one of the first families in hip-hop. There you go. As opposed to just you know, individual acts

coming out of the time. And speaking of the Jews crew, so did you and Mr. Magic have this grand scheme like, we're going to develop acts and then I'll play them on our radio show and you'll spin it on a radio show You know what it was? We're in such a battle, man.

You gotta think it was battle mode. A lot of songs we made was ammunition to fight Red and Chuck on Kiss FM. Explain the initial rivalry between Red and... All right. This is how it all started. Mr. Magic was on the radio on BLS for about a year. Then Kiss FM decided, hey, they went over there with that rap.

Let's get a rap show too. They got Jazz E.J. First. Matter of fact, I think it was, they got Jazz E.J. First, he did it for a minute. He didn't like it. He passed it on the Red. Then Red and Chuck started splitting it.

And then after a while, okay, now we was doing it for a year. And then they started coming up. So that second summer, oh, it was brutal in the city. Now, it's two stations playing rap on the weekends. Now, all right, this is before the summer, actually, when school was in. This was just before that summer when everybody went to school with a new, Red Alert tape or Mr. Magic tape every Monday. Back in school, you heard what they play?

So we started blowing up. Then those tapes would go around the world. Those tapes would travel to Philly. You get what I'm saying? Y'all would get those tapes. Yes, we did. Down south. I know people down south.

And Atlanta was slinging tapes. You get what I'm saying? So those tapes were moving around. So it started a big radio rivalry. Kiss FM against WBLS. And now, now, All of a sudden, now I need ammo because Mr. Magic was the type of person. You know, God rest his soul, he was good at heart, but he would get on the air and this an artist.

So that means that artist would be mad at him. Aged to ask. On the nation of millions. Right. Was he really talking about them? Yo, one day, I played a public enemy record. Oh, no. In the middle of the record, he went, yo, Molly, Molly, turn that off.

He could cut his mic on. Turn that off. I turned it off. You man, no more music for the suckers. Play it real quick. Wait a minute. And I was like, I just thought they made me. But I'm looking at him like, yo, what did you just say, man?

Yo, because I'm the DJ with you. I'm on the radio. Like, we're on the air together. Like, what did you just say, man? No more music from the sucker. So it went by. Then a few weeks later, public enemy put that on their record. When somebody took the recording of him saying it on the show and put it on their record,

I was like, no. He is speaking of the beginning of cold amber and flavor, which is, I guarantee you No more music by the suckers No more music by the suckers No more music by the suckers So how does Bizz enter

And how do you see Biz More than just a sidekick As a star How does you first meet him? Well crazy I was walking down the street And it was like

Yo there's a B-box in the building And I'm like, come on man For real Beatbox Smeatbox You thought I was a Yeah, I was like, come on. I'm like, yo, Dougie Fresh is out.

Buffy's out. Ain't nobody touching them dudes. You get what I'm saying? I'm like, it's going to be hard. I said, I don't even want a hair dude. But he's like, you know, but you got to check him out, Mom. Yo, he's phenomenal. He's something special.

So I go back to the building. He's doing a B-box in the building. All of a sudden, when he went, eh-huh. Right. Bro, come to my house tomorrow, bro. You dope, kid. That was like, you blew me away. He started like, I want to, I want to, I'm introduced myself.

My name is Bismarck. And they started, ah, eh, I was like, yo, if you're crazy enough to chop your neck in front of me. So at that point, did you feel like, did you feel like, okay, I could make anyone a star? Like, did you figure out, like, you knew what the formula was to make the streets feel? Well, Biz, it was kind of like an experiment. I knew that he could have been a good attraction to what we was doing. doing. I was like, wow, he's real entertaining. That was dope.

You know, maybe he could rock with us. And, you know, once he got to meet Shantay, Chanty and him got very close, then he started opening up for Shanty. And once I've seen the reaction of the crowd, when he started opening with Shanty, I was like, wow, he's extra special. What was Bizz doing when you, like, how old was he when you met him?

He was, he had to be like, it looked like he was about 18 or 19 or something like that. He's like, you know, just like a young skinny kid coming to the hood. He stayed for the whole weekend. Finally saw me Sunday. Everybody's like, yo, he was out here a weekend.

Yo, he was out here a funny dude. He was out here hanging with him. So he just sat on the park bench, wait for you. He just hung out the whole weekend in Queensbridge. He just hung out with everybody. So that was just a thing, too. I'm going to go to Queensbridge project. We're going to run in the molly.

Yeah, but that's why I had to move because, you know, a few females would do that too and they would get violated. So I was like, let me move at it because I want to be. responsible. Right. No, where do you live out here? Oh, I'll take you to him. Come on, man.

Oh, man. You know what I was happening? That was happening too much. So I was like, you know, let me, I got to get up out of here. Okay. So are you still going to proper studios to do the pre-production and coming into your crib to... Nope. It's right in the living room in Queensbridge.

With the task cam, with the, I assume at this point, the SB 12, the infamous real to real or your... Yeah, they're real. Yeah. Like, how many outlets did you have to, like, did electricity go out? No, no, it was pretty cool. I mean, it sounds like a lot. I had a shabby, shitty little studio and made all those records. It sounds like, yo, when you hear the records, they sound so big and elaborate.

But, dude, I was sitting there on a, on, like, a shitty-ass equipment. You're saying nobody beats the business was just, just, that was on a McGiver, some McGiver miracle. It wasn't a miracle, but the way I would make records, I mean, come on, I'm triggering from an 808. The pulse from the 808 is triggering each sample of separately. I didn't have a 1,200 yet. This is before 1,200s. They didn't even have 1,200s yet. I'm sampling drums before they even made 1,200s to do that.

So I got three samplers here with trigger inputs on the back. The times, the low times, and the high times is triggering my drum sounds. And I'm using a regular 808 from the 808 and the regular hi-hat from the high-hat. 808, but those are my drum sounds, those three samples, was triggering. So it was kind of like MacGyverish because they didn't have that technology. Right. I kind of like made, I thought of it. So you and Grandmaster Flash, Grand Master Flash, like I want to, you know, invent a system

that lets me hear the music before I'm DJing it. Right. And you are. I want to, I want to, I want to, you're inventing triggering without the idea of triggering. Right. I'm inventing 1,200s and the whole, the whole software program or how they're doing it, probably before it was even made. because nobody, the 12, the 12, SP 12 came out after that.

I thought you did that on a 12. No, no. Okay, so what was your Ben Franklin Eureka moment? Because I think our listeners should know that more than any producer, you're the one that figure it out a way to take what's on a record and put it through technology so that we can wrap over that instead. without, you know, without DJ going back and forth of all that stuff.

So, like, what was your Eureka moment? Like, wait, I can do that. And one day, we was working at Unique, and I was, like, trying to sample something else. And I think the snare went through by mistake. And I was, like, rocking the snare with the beat. And I'm like, that shit sounds hot right there. Turn the other one down.

Turn that shit. Turn the original down. Turn that Lindrum down. I'm playing what I was doing with the beat. is so much better. I was like, yo, could we put this on track? And I put it on track. And I sat there. I was like, hold up. This means I could take any record I have at home, any kick snare, make my own pattern.

With their kicking sneer, I think I never interned anymore after that day. I think that was my last day of internship. I think I never returned. I returned as Molly Mall later to do mixes and be famous, but I was never interned no more after that. So you run home with the equipment or you run home to your own equipment. I went around the corner of Sam Mash and bought two little samplers. Like I'm thinking back then this is super expensive and hard to acquire. No, they had little samplers for guitar players back in the day.

You know how they got the, you could play along with it and play. Right, right, right. Play something that plays a little thing and you play along with it. Right. That's what it was back then. I had a sampler like that first. I had a trigger on it. And I figured I could put my sound from the record in there and trigger it.

Yeah, this is everything I ever wanted to know. Okay. Okay. And so these records, you were recording still at your crib. Yeah. At the crib. Matter of fact, my first real sampler was a little box that was for a guitar player. You know, they have the loops on it.

The little thing that you do. The little cork box, a little thing. Right. That was my first sampler, but I bought one with a trigger on it. Because I already was working at Unique, and I used to see, oh, trigger. everybody's trigger happy. The pulse is popping everything off in here. Hold up.

If I could get a sample that poles to pop off too, I could fucking put what I want in there, and it's going to do what I wanted to do. What was your first thing that you broke, that you were like, oh, God, I've discovered a new way of... Let me see. And was it nobody beats the biz, or...

It could have been nobody beats the biz. It could have been that, and make the music. It was around, make the music time around me. Because I remember, I used to like that. Isaac A's piano. And when I missed around and

remembered how, you know, in hip hop, they used to play it in 45 to make it have that certain tone. And I was like, look, if I could make that certain tone with my own beat, it would be phenomenal. And then once I made that, I kind of knew I was here. I was like, wow, that right there, because I was

able to take my own kicking my own snare, go on the mic and go, shh-sh-sh, shh, shh, shh, and make my own high hat. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, rewind, rewind, rewind, rewind, rewind, rewind, Wait, wait a minute. What do you just say? Oh, God, I need this man.

What do you just say? Say that one more time. I was able to go up to the sample and go shh in it and be able to play it back like a shaker. Oh, my wow. Yo, we's ghetto. Come on, I ain't have nothing. I didn't have to make up my sounds. No, I've always just wondered where the hell was.

What that was, right? Shish, shh, shh, shh, shh. Because the thing that's so dope about it is that when we would do that beat, like, in the lunchroom, that's how we would do it. We would all do it the same way. With our mouth. There you go. That's stupid.

Play that real quick. Oh my goodness. Wow. No way. Yo. That's not a shaker, right? It is a now that I know that it is. Wow.

Now did you hear it now, now you know, it's not like, it wasn't the Dougie fresh shaker. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what I thought it was. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to ask because I know for the show with Teddy Riley, like, was that a DMX? It's probably a DMX. Because I have a DMX and it doesn't sound like that.

Wow. It's just like, and I would try to tune it down. It doesn't sound that way. It sounds like you're sitting off an email on an iPhone. Yeah, but I figured after that record right there, I had it. And to be honest, I kept my drum sounds in my samplers for about a week. I made about a week's worth of beats.

Before you unplugged it? Yeah, the bridge was one of them. Stunning the blockers on. Eric Bees president. Drums was one of them. So at that point, I was like, I kept those drums sounds in. Was there a way to save it? I was not saying, yeah.

There was no cards, right? No, I had it on reel, so I had on reel. That's with the infamous reel. The infamous reel was my hard drive. We got to talk about impeach the president. Yes. We got to talk about impeach the president. I know much has been said about, like, the importance of funky drummers placing the pantheon.

Peace the president is the greatest breakbeat of it. But, yeah, I do feel that impeach the president is probably the common man's breakbeat. First of all, ultimate beats and breaks wasn't out yet. Right. So thus, how did you run across it? Was it just like a source record that you were like, oh, this will do? Well, I got it.

I got my version, my 45s. Yeah, so I'm Mr. Aaron Fuchs. Wow. Now, see, I got to be careful. Right. Because he's bucked a few shots at me. I know about with him, Peach, but he gave me it because what happened? He gave it to you?

Listen, I used to, this is when I lived in Queens Bridge on Vernon. Tough City Records was on Vernon Boulevard in Queens, in Long Island City, like a few. blocks down. Okay. And, you know, and, you know, and I was just coming up, and he's like, look, I want you to go in the studio with Spoonie G. I can't really pay you, but I could give you a handful of 45s.

Now, you got to think about it. Aaron Fuchs was the editor. Oh, my God, you did the Godfather. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Fuck. I thought Teddy did that. You did that. Yeah, I did the Godfather.

Right. This is the Godfather by Spoonie G. That's the reference. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. I'm being a fan right now. And take it off. Of course he did.

Yeah, so when I was doing those records, he didn't have money to pay me. So he would say, hey, since he was the editor of Billboard for Funk and Soul in the 60s, so you already know his record collection. So he would always say, I got a handful of 45s for you here. And there was so many rarities in that shit every time.

I was like, okay, let me go and make a record for him and get his 40. He paid you and break beats. He paid me with, no, 45s, bro. And Impeaster president happened to be one of them. The irony of everything is that he was the person that gave me impeached the president on a trade like that and was later to come back and sue me.

Suit you for around the way girl. For around the way girl. For using that very breaky gamey. Wow. Okay. What is your, okay. I had a situation where, all right, I got to be very careful because some certain people were very litigious with the vocal.

What do you mean by certain people? Exactly. That's exactly how he. approached me too like what do you mean leeches no at the time there was a situation with with jZ and coney west uh odis in which we all know that coney ends the rhyme with jay is chilling bitch right oh yeah that's right he did come after him for that right and you know from what i know is that he approached uh what's light and milks father's name.

Nat Robinson. Right. Yeah. They were like, yo, he's quoting our song. Go get him. And they were like, well, no, it's just an homage. Like, it's not, we don't consider it biting. It's just an homage.

Right. At the end of the day, I hear that the amount was somewhere close to $2 million. My thing is that the very thing, and this probably extends to me and boss Bill's argument about homage versus buying. That one. I'm his versus biting. Stealing somebody's style. Well, yeah, it's like, for me, a person like George Clinton has it, whereas like he gives you great rates to take his stuff,

and then you keep coming back for more. A crack deal. Right. You know, keep the low, keep the prices low in the streets and everybody comes back. The problem, the situation with Aaron Fuchs is that he acquired the rights to impeach the president. and then he just went lawsuit crazy. Now, I noticed that all these seven-figure lawsuits were always aimed at Def Jam.

So I don't know if maybe he has a beef with Russell or, yeah, because like certain and Preach to President usage got, you know, he let it slide. But with Def Jam, it was like $1 million, $1 million, one million, one million, one million. Def Jam had the budget probably. Yeah. What is your feeling, I mean, especially in 2016, in which I feel as though we need more impeach the president.

And less, and I don't want to be that guy that's like discouraged in the future marlies of the world to not push forward technology. Right. But if everyone is just trying to cash in on laying a trap, I feel like it's laying a trap. Right.

I'm going to take the most popular breakbeat and sue you if you use it. I'm going to give it to the most popular producer. Let him use it. Get it hot in the streets. Then I'm going to be. go get the rights to it and sue every motherfucker that used. And that's what happened.

What is he, is he just living off of the theme to scrubs? No, I think that, you know, he looks at it as his business. You know, somebody's got to do it. You know, that's his way. That's his way. That's not me. He's looking at it as business.

You know what I mean? That's like, that's the story of, like, music. Like, pan chess artists with Cadillacs and now, like, But look at, you know, it's kind of like, it's kind of like when the whole bubble burst it with sampling itself, when they found out that you could make money off of suing everybody. Everybody wasn't buck wow. At first it was like, you know, we're just doing it because it sounds hot or whatever, whatever. We're not really thinking about it like that. Once somebody figured out that, yo, you could get sued for that.

Everybody went buck wild. It became a business, and that kind of fucked the music up. Yeah, everybody started using doing keyboard shit. Right. But they couldn't play keys. Is it fairer if it's going to be? back to the artist is it the problem is that the people, most times the breakbeats or whoever

originally owns it is not going back to that person who really made the music. Is that the problem? If he were about making sure the honey drippers were straight, right. Like a good example now is one of the most popular comedy shows on right now today.

The workaholics. Their theme song Yeah, Skinny Boys' Human Jobbox. Like none of those guys are, they're not even aware that there is a subculture of comedy now that, like when I spend that song now,

like any millennials losing their minds because they're thinking I'm spending the workaholics team. The workaholics team. Like, oh, this is a real song? And once I did the investigation, like none of those guys are, they sold their publishing, and it's just like,

it's one guy that's like just getting rich off the workaholics team. Wow. So then that's the case. So if it was directly the artist, you would feel a little differently about it. I would definitely feel that. Marvin Gay was alive.

So, yeah, but I mean, do you feel paranoid? Because the thing is that your drums have single-handedly fed and up the game of hip-hop between 85 and 87. And still to this day, like, that is you building those drums. Like, how do you feel about it now? I feel that. And is he trying to come, has he ever tried to come to you for just, snares and high hats and... Nah, that's one thing that you can notice.

When you just hear a kick or a snare from it, he doesn't go at you, kind of. Maybe I'm letting something out the bag, but I notice whenever it's... He's getting you. But if it's like, right, just a straight-up snare. Right.

He's like, oh, you can't really prove it the way he could prove a loop. How did y'all end up settling, I mean, without money, whatever details? Did y'all end up selling the Roundaway girl? No, I paid him. I paid him. It was like a settlement, and he got like a one-time payment and kept it moving.

Yikes. I believe it. I believe that's how it went. All right. So this leads to the infamous real. Yes. And you're what I call the, not the man I'm from heaven, but the two loaves of fish and five pieces of bread. Is it five pieces of fish and two loaves of bread?

It's two fish and five lobes. Yeah. So because you're not. saving these sounds on disc. No disc was here yet because there wasn't no way of saving. There was nothing digital yet. They didn't have floppy disc for our samples yet because there was no 1200 yet. Right.

So what I would do is put my drum sounds on a reel, put like one kick, bah, and then leader, the next snare, ka, leader, the next kick, boom, hi-hat, whatever. I had it with my reels, all my sales, and then leader. sounds on one reel. And, you know, that's how I used to go around. I used to go with the artist. We used to sit there with the reel. All right, what kick do you want to use? Boom. Oh, I like that. Oh, I like that. And that's how I used to make good. For real? Yeah, that's how I used to sit down with him. He customized you and was like, we got to start doing that. You do do that. I think we do

that there. Yeah, you do that. You play like that. You know, you play sitting certain things. But I was just playing drum sounds for them, not even loops, just, oh, that's how. Oh, And I would sit there, load those in, make a quick beat, put whatever to it, and then let them rhyme. Right. Put the snare and the high hat on one track. Put the kick in the bass line on the other track. Put the rhymes on one track and sampling on the other fourth track. And we got a record, man.

Okay. With that said, I got to ask you, when you hear this intro, what are you thinking? for years it never dawned on me I don't know why and for some reason I kind of like block that record out of my psychic for like years

really? It just never existed to you? No it never nothing to it never existed I probably never listened to it I heard it but didn't listen to it if you know what I mean it is possible to ignore something yeah and be willfully ignorant

like there's one particular artist in hip hop I can honestly say I've never even I mean this is like a bonafide everybody their mother loves this product I haven't heard it once like I will so as far as you're concerned criminal minded just never existed no um that record right there we're talking

that record um South Bronx well I mean I mean the bridge is over yeah the bridge is over when when Bridges over came out I was like I heard it but I And, you know, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't hit me like that was my drum sound. It didn't hit me like that because I kind of like, to be honest, I never thought that, like, when Chris first came at us, I was like, now, who's stupid enough to. I was like, yo, who's stupid enough to believe this dude right here?

Who's stupid enough to believe that he's saying that we said something, we didn't say, who's that dumb to believe this motherfucker? And I was like, that's when I realized, yo, hip-hop dumber than the motherfucker, yo. I was like, God damn. When he first came, I was like, yo, who's going to believe this? Dude, we never said that. And we're the motherfucking juice crew. Because we got cane, G-rap, so-and-so. Nigger, who going to believe that shit?

And everybody, I was like, God, this niggas is a good, good con artist. He caught your niggas. He caught a lot of motherfuckers, yo. My assumption was that it was something deeper than just him defending the honor of the Bronx. But he wasn't from the Bronx. See what I'm saying? He wasn't fun to be. Where is he from?

He was from Brooklyn, a homeless shelter. Chris was from. Oh. And Scholar Rock was from the B. You get what I'm saying? Please explain to us. And I was like saying to my, so, yo, who's going to believe this dude? But then I started realizing that, you know, I started realizing that, you know, I started

realizing that that common sense wasn't as common as I thought and I was like so I kind of after that I kind of backed away from hip hop I was like oh let me just what

everything was already done I backed the way looked at it I said I know what I'm gonna do let me throw cane on these niggas real quick got raw you know what I'm saying

after raw I was like yo now I'm I'm back I felt good again about it but I stepped back after a while so you felt it some sort of way between 85, 86, 87? I felt, I felt real, you know, I felt real crazy. I was like, you know, how do

fuck niggas believe this dude? And that's real talk. Why, what happened? Like, did y'all mean, like, was he, like, play our record? I'll tell you exactly what happened. He tried to get in the juice crew. The day I lost my reel up at Power Play, he,

they saw Mr. Magic and me in the studio with Shantay. Please, Mr. Magic listen to our demo. Please, please. You're Molly, man. Come in the room. Come in the room with me, so I heard these niggins shit. So I was like, I walk in the room with you. So I go in the room with him. It's like the boogie down production, all of them.

They're in the room like, yo, please, Mr. Magic. Oh, thank you for coming in. Yo, this is our demo. And they put it on and play it loud. And they own room like this jumping around. He goes off to the console. He shuts that shit down. Woo!

Shit is bullshit, man. He said that in front of them? Yo, he said that straight in front. This shit is straight garbage. Do you remember what? Was it a song that later came out? You remember what it was? I don't know.

I don't know. I probably never heard that shit again. You know what? You know what? All right, so, peep it. They, they had like four or five songs. Like, I got that B-boy records. No, no, no, no, no.

Box set? They played that one song that he turned down. He was like, yo, turned the volume down in the middle and I'm jumping around the room. Trying to sell it. He was like, yo, this shit's garbage. You want me little hip-hop? Roxanne Chante, Molly Mall,

Mr. Magic, juice crew, and walked out. So that's why And then when he was leaving the studio I didn't want to stay in the studio Because he dissed him So I was trying to get out of there with them And I left my reel Wait how many

Who was in beat? Like was it Scott, Chris It was a lot of them It was like a whole room full of people It was like That's what I'm asking Yeah it was like all of them All of them

Because they were so happy to see Mr. Magic And they were such a fans of Mr. Magic And he dissed them So it didn't come off like Yeah we about the fucking mum I mean, he was, that was Mr. Magic, man. He was arrogant and liked that back in the day. So retaliation, the retaliation set didn't even get into the minds of hip hoppers back then.

Right, right. He was like, yo, I'm going to get them back. That was only one way in. I mean, you couldn't, you did him, then where do you go? Right. And then what happened, too, and see, you got to think about it. Now, this is even before BDP was down with Red Alert. They gave Red the record.

Red jumped on with them because now he had ammo. He needed ammunition. So he jumped in their crew. You get what I mean? You get what I'm saying? So now when I seen the whole wave of the Bronx support, and I was like, we didn't say that.

But, yo, the wind was already blowing on the fire at that point. So it was already spreading. Like, nobody stood back and said, oh, them niggas never said that. What the fuck you're talking about? I was stupid. If it's a lie, we fight on that line. Right.

You know what I'm saying? So it never got cleared. So I looked at the whole shit for years. Damn. Have you heard pre-criminal-minded BDP? No. All right, I got to play events. Like, on the box set of criminal-minded,

there's like their 85, 86 stuff, which is like... Probably the demos. Yes. You probably heard this. This is Advanced by Boogie Down Productions. We got to advance. We got to advance. Because I've been in our lives ever have my chance.

We got to advance. We got to advance. We have advanced. out of this day. Magic was like, come on, man. That, da-da-da-da-da. And they got upset, but, you know. But that gave them that fuel right there.

But I'm saying, where's that reel right now? Which one? My drum reel? Yes. I got that all day. Oh, my God. I should have brought it. If I didn't know what you were talking about that.

That is a piece of art right there. I walk around with that since I don't know if I would have brought that. We want it. Wow. I got that. To be honest, I want to bake it right now and see what sounds is on that bitch. That's dead ass. I would love this because that kick and that,

And you got a nose, that impeached the president, the way it sounds like that. And I know if anybody ever uses any sample from that reel, because you know how there's a certain popcorn on your samples that you know at a certain spot. I didn't play my impeach so much back in the day that by the time I sampled it, it was that much static on it. And I hear that static on top billing. I hear that static on Airbe's president. I hear that static on fucking funky Cole Medina. You get what I'm saying? There's too many records where I had it hit that static where you can't tell me you didn't sample my shit.

See, I was under the impression that, see, I'm so glad we're having this conversation because in my mind, I'm thinking that this is where Paul C and said G of ultramagnetic come into play. Oh, oh, oh, said found a real. So let's move on. Ah, ho! Really? Yes. So that explains. Why the bridge is over, because he tapped up the beat for the bridge is over.

Said G. Yes. That explains everything. So these are also your dream. Yeah, of course. You got to tell them what song this is. Yo, what's up, Kookeef? This is funky by Ultraman Egg.

Of course, one of the... You know what? I like this beat you brought. You know what? Yeah, it's one of these skillian songs using Marley Marley Marr's real stand. Here that. Here the sneer? Oh, cool.

Come on. You get a static on the kick in the snare. You can hear it. I'm telling you, I lost my reel. They went crazy. But that's okay to you, though, right, Molly? It was all good because I found it, you know, to be honest, I'm glad they made those records because those records right there

help motivate hip hop. Now they follow them what the fuck I'm doing. You get what I'm saying? So I had y'all in my grips because you had my reel making all these beads. Now this is really starting and it makes sense to me. because I thought you produced our hometown hero Steady B. No doubt. Before I let go.

Right. This was like a big song. Yeah. Your drums? Yes, of course. I think Lawrence was mad at me and took my drums and made a record. So it's just like, are people making copies of this wheel? You know, once I put it on the bridge, da, da, da, that.

It was open. It was open. It was open. The beginning of the bridge, it was open. So people was grabbing it from there. Eric B's president. You know, Milk said, he, yo, I didn't use your bridge.

I used Eric Brees president. Dude, this ain't real, bro. It's the same drum sound. I don't care. If you got it from there, there, there, there's the same drum sound, buddy. Can I say, what was the story with Beat Byter? Now, so L.L. releases, this is really weird to beat. Yeah.

Well, no, no, well, I thought it was over Rock the Bells because, oh, yeah, it was a remix. Right. Now, the thing is, originally, Rick Rubin told me there's a version of Rock the Bells where he's doing it over the Peter Piper Break. Nice. Take me to the Marty Graeme. Nice. By Bob James.

And then Run barked on him like, no, we got some shit like that. You can't do that. Wow. And so then Rick and L.L. go back and do it over the Trouble Front break. And then did another version of which MC Shan claims that, you know, this is. So what's really weird is that At least four records Four like early records of yours

Are confrontational records of some sort Between Roxanne Between Yeah my early records Was kind of like Frustration records Kind of like Matter of fact

If there was meant to be records I did start going at people Because all right We made the Roxanne record It did what it did I made the Dimples record It did what it did I'm like oh shit

I can make these types of records I can go at motherfuckers So I never knew about this beef with L.L. Or at least like, I mean, it didn't really escalate. Right. But I mean, did L.L. even realize that? It was, it was diverted by. Or was it a New York thing?

No, no, it was, it was diverted by BDP. Oh, once that came, then. Yeah, it was like, the verdict. Yeah, yeah. I got it. Have you heard B-Bitter? Yeah, I've heard of B-Bit-Bet. Yeah. But did you hear the remix of Rock the Bells?

Yeah, the original, beep, beep, the other version. The other, boom, do-d-d-d-da-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. So it was the same pattern. So this came out first or that? The real rock the bells came out first, then the remix came later. And when we heard the remix, we were like, yo, hold up. That's the fuck. That is, Molly Scratch Beals.

Boom, boom, ba, boom, ba, boom, ba, boom, ba, boom, ba, boom, ba, ba, ba. And he's like, and then he's talking about rocking the bells over the same beat. We was like, hold up. That's the same pattern. I think you were the first person that really introduced the idea of a dove or an instrumental. Because I think before hip hop, hip hop 12 inches didn't have the instrumental on it.

Right. I remember one, like maybe the Sugar Hill birthday rhymes, they had a instrumental on the back. But you would always do something where it's what we now call the TV version. So when you mix in the studio, the TV version is it's an instrumental and it's an occasional background vocal guide

so the MC knows where they are in the song so like if I'm doing the freshman to belly area it would be like now this is it upside down right right right like what made you I believe you're like one of the first

to do a dub or whatever was it for the purpose of doing it live or no you know I used to do that because you notice a lot of my records from back then, I never gave instrumentals up. To this day, I know. See, to this day, I found some instrumentals from, like, key cats. Like, how'd you get that?

Right. I never gave instrumentals up because I didn't want nobody rhyming over my beat other than the artist. I don't want nobody coming out with mixtapes. I don't want nobody coming out with stuff. His version of the killer. Yeah, rhyming over my dreads. Yeah, I didn't want to all that. So I was like, yo, I want to, when I put this record out, only they're going to rhyme over it.

You're only going to hear them rhyming over it. And I never even gave you a space to rhyme on those dubs. I always put the vocals up, fuck you up a little. You're not going to get no clean 16, no clean eight, because you're not going to be rhyming over my beats. I had to give up something. I wasn't giving up that instrumental. And plus, I used to love Jamaican dub music back in the day.

I grew up of a lot of that. So I used to always hear my Jamaican dula. I always figured to myself, why hip-hop don't have dub versions. you know, kind of like when I was in unique, learning the equipment, I was learning the echoes, the quarter echoes, the so-and-so's. So I was always like,

damn, it would be hot to have, you know, to give it that reggae flavor with a, like certain, certain words. And, you know, and plus, you know, in disco they was, you know, doing that a little bit too. So, you know, I was like hearing some, like, garage versions of stuff.

They would have, like, the echoes. I was like, damn, they need that in hip-hop too. So that's another reason why I went with it. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

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I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. With the bridge, I guess probably the most notable, even past you chopping up impeach the president, I always noticed that

I would say that that record, if anything, starts what I feel will be the accessory noise period of hip-hop. Gotcha. Which, I guess you took magic disco machines

scratching. Yeah, I flipped it back. Was that backwards? Backwood sound wasn't a mistake. That was, I wanted to use scratching because I already, you know, I was into my break beats. I already knew I liked scratching. When I used it forward with the beat, it didn't make sense. Really? You know, because it was going,

peh, peh, peh, peh, it wouldn't have made sense. Because then when I flipped it backwards and played it backwards and triggered it, and ran it up against the kid. kick because it's triggered off the kick. It created something special. So I was like, wow, this is real special. I never heard nothing like this on a record ever before.

I'm going to turn this bitch up. So what he's talking about is there's a break by the Magic Disco Machine called Scratchen, which normally, I mean, it's a hip-hop staple, and most hip-hop DJs will, it's called a stab. Right. If there's a horn part in a record with a good kick under it, that's your exclamation point if you're a DJ. So when your emcees rhyming over a beat and you want to, that's your importance.

That's your fist through the door. Right. So what Marley basically did was reversed it to create the bridge, which is a little bit of echo to reverse and echo. So what is on your mind at this point? Because this is extremely unorthodox. Right. That's pre-public enemy.

I know. You were the first. You were the first. Yeah, that's pre-public enemy. What is on your mind when you're doing this? I mean, that must have been, you know, I mean, when I made that, and the funny thing about making that record, that wasn't even supposed to be a record. That was interlude music for Queensbridge.

Wait, what? That song was interlude music for Queensbridge Day. So because there was, you know, there's so many bands in Queensbridgebridge, like I mentioned, there was many bands. So they used to have Queensbridge Day, and the bands used to perform. It wasn't even hip-hop yet. So what bands are performing at Queensbridge Day? Like I said, Fred Fowling them used to always get busy. All the residents?

Yeah, all the residents used to come out because it was band heavy. Dile Payne used to have his artists out there. Andre Booth. used to get busy. He used to have his artists. You know, everybody, you know, they had cinnamon used to come out there with Dalping, thanks to you. So there was a lot, you know, so we was just, I said, yo, Shan, let's make a song for intermission music for tomorrow. Wait.

Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be a record. I told you, a lot of my stuff wasn't supposed to be records. I didn't get into this. Some of the greatest hip-hop stories are just like, eh, let me throw something together. Right, right, right. Change someone's life, real quick. Sometimes you don't try. You just do what's in your heart, and it just happens.

I wasn't trying to become what happened to this day. I just wanted something hot for me to battle with on the radio and just come with some heat every week. I had to come with heat because, you know, everybody was going against us. I had to create my own crew, my own ammunition, and it worked. So when the final product's done,

like what are people looking at because we didn't know I'm an as a teenager and I was very much aware of the song when it came out when I was 15 we were just like I thought was like is that a fire truck like what the hell is that noise like we could not for the life of us figure out what it was or what you all were trying to convey right but it's just I just I was conveying mass hysteria madness because when I you know I already knew the impeached the president kick and snare was already head bopping material and if you put some new some fire behind it, which that noise was, I just figured that it's like an undeniable.

And we played this song about four times that time in the park. Everybody was loving it, and, you know, unfortunately, somebody got killed that night at a peace rally. Oh, shit. The first day we played that in the park, later on, somebody got killed. Damn. So it was kind of weird.

The Queensbridge I know of where Mob Deep is rhyming about, Like, yo, I might not make it tomorrow. Like, where does that come into play? Is this 87 to 80? I mean, yeah. Crack era, Queensbridge. I think by the time that really started happening, the crack era started really getting higher and higher,

I think that's probably at the point when I moved out the hood because it was getting out of control. Really? I mean, it was like night of living baseheads on the block type. You know, people walking through, the lights is out on the blog, and it turned into a different place at night. You know, and I was like, you know, that's when I decided to move to a story. Like, how did you and MC Shan hook up?

One day I met Shan, I was in the river park. I believe I was probably writing rhymes. I was probably sitting in the park writing rhymes. And I saw him riding his mini bike. And, you know, he told me that he could rap. And I was like, oh, that's cool. He told me, I got a rhyme about you. I got a rap about you.

I'm like, all, cool. He said, I said, well, just bring it by my house one day. You know, about a week later, he came by my house with it written on a bag. And it was Molly Scratch. The M.S. Four Master Us. When he did that. That's on MCA, right. That was actually on the air records.

So, I mean, of your arsenal, I mean, where does Shan rank as far as the emcees that you've worked with? Shan, he ranks, he got his number one status in a few things with me. He has a certain tone. His voice is like an inch. You know what I'm saying? Certain people, they could rhyme and talk. And singers too. Some people could sing, but some people's voices are an instrument.

And his voice is an instrument, like the tone of it. Yeah, it was like an instrument. It's like a horn. It's like an instrument. So I give him that. He's really, though, and his rhymes, you know, he got to think he made Jane back in the day. My mom loved that. My mom loved Jane.

You know what I'm saying? Yo, my mom actually loved Jane. I'm actually love Jane stops the screen. Yeah, Jane. Tell my dad, see, it is positive. They're talking about not doing crack. See, and he had the song about cocaine. Like, it was a love story.

Right. How he fell in love with this girl. And at the end of the story, it was, her name was cocaine. Oh. So, you know, he was kind of visualizing those little rhymes kind of like, I'm sure. Were you doing live shows with him as well? Yeah, I was his, I was his, what was his, what was the crowd was positive? Like, did he get him?

He had him. He was like, he was getting the ladies. He had, like, left me lonely out, too. So, yeah, he had this run. He definitely had a hard run with the chicks. Chicks used to like Shan. Before I bring up Kane, which is more 88. Ooh.

I got to know about your brief time with, with, with, with, with Raq Kemp, which. Hmm. I've seen a few Shan things where he's like, well, I did it, whatever. Like, what is, what is the story of Eric Breed's president? president and well Eric B every B was like a roommate to me in Queensbridge he used to come you know come stay at the crib he's from Queens or no he's actually from um Corona Queens okay or East Elmer is one of them but it's the same you know same kind of thing but he used to hang out with him Polo Polo introduced me

to him and you know he started hanging out with me then you know start not going home really hanging out she's on at the crib you know he used to see a lot of people come through mm-hmm then you know when he's like yo I got a rapper you know I want to bring a rap up, you know, and he said, yo. The first day, he said somebody was going to come. I believe it was Freddie Fox. He didn't show up. So it could have been Freddie Fox.

Wait, Freddie Fox should have been over that beat? Whoever would have showed up, probably would have got it. Because, you know, we just had, you know, we just ready for a session, so who knows what we would have made. You get what I'm saying? So obviously he didn't show up. So he said, I got somebody coming the next day, which was Ra. So Ra came and we made my melody first. Now, you know what the thing.

about it I was just getting in the studio with Kane just you know Kane was just writing for Biz so I was I was kind of like secretly making Kane album on the low okay because the record company act like he wasn't an artist and I already knew it that he that he was dope so I would just record him when when when Biz would be late kind of thing right so he's getting an album together so I'm working with Kane now Raq Kim came and now Raqq him wanted to do my melody now I was already rhyming you know, fucking with G-Rap and Kane, where they was like...

112 BPMs, yeah. Right, right. Now, he came with my melody, which was like, it was like so different at my house from what we was doing. It was mad, slow. Yeah.

It was like, it was a head bopper. It was dope, but it was like a head bopper, listen to a record. And, you know, before he had came, you know, just the sessions before was like all energetic. So I was like,

Shane, man, record him, man, real quick. Wow. Record the vocals, man. go over here real quick. I'm running back and go program something else. Go tap out something else. Just record his vocals. I want to see how it'll come out. You get what I'm saying? So Chin had engineering skills too. Shin was a, he would hang around the studio and learn and see what we was doing and learn and learn how, you know, learn, oh, wow, this is how you do the vocals. Oh, this is how you do this. So he was learning. He was, he was an artist, but he was more of an apprentice learner. He wanted

to learn how to make the music too. So I was like, all right. That's good. So I was set it up. I set it up. It's like he went over there and went to the board and punched it up and, okay, all right, I'm going to EQ you and EQ it. No, I just left it ready for him and just record him. I'll be right back.

You get what I'm saying? I taught him at a punch in. You know, I was teaching Shan how to do all. So I was like, yeah, all right. Let me see. If you're nice, record him, I'll be right back. So I went in the other room, probably tapped out another beat while he was doing the vocals to my melody.

By the time I came back out, I was like, came out and like, I was like, damn, I like this, but it doesn't have the energy of what I've been doing where I'm at. You know what I'm saying? It was dope, but it was like when everything else I was doing was like, ha, ha, it was like out of here. My melody was the perfect song to do the whop to them. Right, right, right, right, right. Because, like, when that came out, I just remember, this is my melody by I rock him, Eric B and rock him.

It's slow. It's like, what, 80? What's the 80s? Yeah, 87, 88. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the year, it went with the year. So is this a throwaway beat of yours? That beat right there was probably just on a spot makeup.

And then I believe that Eric B. probably liked that. Do do, do, do, do. do do do do the bass line but when you hear it changed since I only had a casio CZ 101 and I was able to just have one MIDI program running I was just changing the sound with the MIDI still playing so it's going doom do do and then the bell boom boom boom boom boom and then you had the other sound I'm just changing the patches I'm just changing the patches is that you playing the keyboards or that was me that was me yeah I started playing

I thought it does some shit. Yeah, yeah. I started playing keyboards back then, but then I got bored with it, and I kind of stopped. I don't know why I ever stopped, but after, you know, around Eric Beas president,

I played that baseline and that one. So I was learning a little about the keyboards, but for some reason I stopped. I don't know. I just stopped. But in your mind, you're not thinking, like, this is a new revolution right here. No, I'm just thinking that we finished this session

and I'm going to move on to the next one because I got beats to make. So how long before Eric B. President gets me? Well, we made that, and I gave him a copy of what we did in the studio that day, and the next week I heard it all over the radio. Wait, what's the time between my melody

and Eric B. President? How many days? It was about the following week I heard on the radio. I heard, I started hearing it on the radio. and still then you didn't think like... No, I knew, I knew, I knew, believe me, when I made everybody's president, Duke's, I already knew that that was going to be the shit, that was going to be it,

because that was more of where I was at. If you notice, I was, I make the music with your mouth, biz, the bridge and all of that. But even then, I think 97BPMs was a little slow for you because by that point, all your joins were like 112, like super fast. I know, but the, you didn't even make the music

and then nobody beats the business over there. Right. You get what I'm saying. Those was real good hits for me. So I was like, yo, I want to be over there. That's why I was trying to go. And that's why I want to bring Ra. I want to bring him there.

I want to bring him right to where I was at. Super fast. Not too fast, but you know where people can understand you and dance. You get what I'm saying? I will say that because by this point, I'll say that between you and the bomb squad, both of you guys pretty much revolutionizing and leading the peck of the new wave of hip hop

which is like just this sonic assault matching the time period I was like your your version of the the panic sound was definitely more I mean it was more danceable and dance rap like you could still play raw to this day you can still play poison to this day.

Whereas, I mean, you know, just the engineering of some of the stuff on Nation of Millions is so dense that it doesn't cut through.

Like, how long is it taking you to mix this stuff? No, you know, a lot of that stuff was made in mastering. I had very good guys mastering. I had her powers. I'm coughing bats back in the day.

I had heard powers, dude. So I would come He would hate, you know, let me tell you. He would hate to see me coming, bro. Right. Because he knows I'm coming with some shit in the living room. Oh, here come, Molly. I got to fix this shit.

But by the time left mastering, them fucking, yo, them shit was like, boom, gong, gong, boom. He really fixed a lot of my song. My song was made on four tracks in the crib without DBX. Are your emcees using pop stoppers at all?

Or just straight up? Like, what type of mic is like? Yeah, I had a sure mic without. without the bubble. Wow. So there's like an FM 58. That's why Mike, that's why my melody sounds so screechy in his voice. Roxanne's sound so screechy.

Some Shan records. And Kane. And Kane. Because I had a fucked up Mike. Tarreek refuses. Tarique will do 80% of his vocals on like a shore 58. Yeah. Hoping to get that just rhyming with this.

Distortion. You got to take the top off, that ball. They was rhymed with the ball off. I didn't even have a ball where you're so broke. Do you still have that equipment? Yes, I do. I still got that mic. Am I real?

I still got that. If I had known we were going to talk about that, I would have brought it. That's more. I always be bringing it with me if one got to. They got any of your stuff in the New Smithsonian in D.C.? I feel like. Maybe they need to. Yeah.

Maybe after this, it could happen. Yeah. Oh, it's, trust me, it's going to happen. Actually, I think, shout out. to Timothy at the Smithsonian. I think she's, yeah, I'm going to meet with her and give her more artifacts. There you go.

That's a cool thing about the Smithsonian. For a pack rack like me, I could just give her the stuff. And she is the hip-hop curator. There you go. All right. Absolutely. Make the connection. How does Kane enter the...

Well, the picture. Let me finish with Eric B.'s president. Okay. Because the beat from Eric B.'s president came from a song that I made called Stunner the Block by Tragedy. I'm saying you it. We're going to put it on this. But it came from a song called Stunner the Block

and, you know, the funky cuts because DJ Hot Day used to be Tragedy's DJ. So I made a song called Stunner the Block right after Super Kids. The tragedy won't happen to me. I made that. And then their follow-up song was a song called Stun of the Block.

Now Stunner the Block had Eric B's president, Kicksnared the pattern. Three. Do do, do, do tae, do do tae, do do, do, do, do, do, all of that. Right.

But when I did Eric Beas president, since I couldn't make Stunner the Block a record, because they couldn't, they was too young to talk about stunts. Stunts. Stunts on the Block. He probably was about, probably about 12 when he made Stunner the Block of 12 or 13,

very, very young. He's like, wait, speaking of which, I don't want to miss it. Craig G. Yeah. Did you produce Veronica, like all the stuff that he did for Pop-Art? Right, a lot of stuff he did for Pop-Art.

I did produce a lot of it, the earliest stuff. The O' Veronica and other? Oh, God, okay. Okay. Yeah. So what basically happened, I took the drums from Stunner the Block, turned everything down, just kept the drums, and then put over like a fat rap baseline over it.

So I already had that drum pattern already for another record. I'm going to send you all that for this. Wow. And then... And then you can hear it. You can hear it. It's the same drums, same everything, but it's different music. But I couldn't... I had to erase all of their shit.

I don't even have Stunning the Block & more, but I got the mixes. But I had to erase everything on the master. You didn't make a dub? I got the copies, the mixes and instrumental and all that, but I don't have the master. Because the beat was so hot, it's Eric Beard's president. If I didn't erase what was there, you wouldn't have the foundation of Eric Beard's president. Okay, I guess that's the word of these second. In my mind, I had a funeral for Stunner the Block like,

you never made it. Right, right, right. I got the mixes, though. I got, you know, all types of mixes from it, but I don't have the actual multi-track. But I got them. So by this point, is the SB 12 now your instrument of choice? No.

You're still... No, I'm... Let this be a note that all the great hip-hop producers still hold true their weapon of choice I mean I still have a few of them so you say ninth is still using

fruity loops he I think he is I mean at one point in time he was heavy on on machine right so I think he's using machine now but I want to say back in like 20 uh it's like maybe

2012 13 he sent me like a whole batch he was like yo new fruity joint All fruity loop beats. He went back to it. So, yeah, he's still on it. And, you know, with me, I moved on. I mean, I could still use the old stuff,

but I have my 1,200s. What I do use is my Renaissance and going to the 1,200 mode because it feels kind of like a 1,200. Does it, though? I mean, the sound, not the feel, the sound. Okay. It's a little ashy.

Okay. It adds a little ash, too. I have a renaissance, but it doesn't... It doesn't feel the same way. I'd still... I mean, I've learned. And I've learned or machine, but I'm still grabbing the, my weapon of choice is the 2000. I do have a 1,200.

There you go. You see, you got the 2000. I use logic in reasons right now. I'm a logic guy or reasons. So you're not afraid of technology? No, I move with it. I'm not getting left behind at all because if I would have been the person to get left behind, I probably wouldn't have been sampling.

You get what I'm saying? I probably would have never sampled that first thing and used it for what it was at that point. I'm always the one to grab technology. and use it for what I need it for. You're going to make it for what you're making it for, but I'm going to use it for what I need it for. I see. So in 88 is, I mean, are you overwhelmed at this point?

Because you're making the going off record. You're making Keynes record. You're making Chante's stuff. Cool G. Raps is about the end of the photo. And how long are you spending on these records just real quick? Like, how long would it take to make, you spin on going off? No, we're making a record. like we're making two records a day type.

It was like an assembly line. We're making two records a day. Who's next? Who's tomorrow? Sessions after session. Every day's a session. Is this still in your kitchen? No, this is after I moved to a story, it became like an assembly line.

Okay. That's when I met Kane. So talk about Kane. Now, Kane comes to my door. This is late one day. He comes in my door. With his apron? Yeah, I'm thinking he's trying to stick me up.

Because now I lived in the story. Finally, I was like, when are you going to get paranoid, brother? You know. Now, I go downstairs. There's a dude, some dark skin dude at the door. I'm like, yo, I don't even know this dude. I don't know why I even buzzed him in my building. Got to the door.

I'm like, I don't even know this dude. I let buzz him in the building at the door. I'm like, yo, shit. He's like, I'm upstairs. So it's only one of him. It's only me and him. So I'm like, yo, it's not two of them. So it's just going to have to be me and Duke.

You get what I'm saying? So anyway, I opened my door like a little halfway and shit. So, yo, what up? He's like, yo, I'm here to meet biz. Oh, yeah? I'm like, so I write biz as rhymes. I say, oh, you do. So tell me a rhyme that you wrote from biz.

And he said some shit that never came out yet. Oh, I was like, oh, this the nigger official. How are he going to know that? I was like, all right, come in. I let him in and shit and we're sitting there. Stick him up, motherfucker. No, no, we're sitting there talking and shit. We're sitting there and he's telling me that, you know,

I rhyme a little, you know, I never heard myself on the mic, you know, on the so-and-so, you know, I'm like, oh, whatever. So, you know, we're sitting there, biz kind of late. So, you know, I said, fuck it, let me throw on, I'll take you there beat. You had it made already? Yeah, matter of fact, he said, let's run. I like to rhyme off.

So I chopped it up real quick and put it there. Then the shit had Big Daddy, he ain't know that shit. And I caught that and started like, he's like, oh. So that's when we kind of bond. I made that, he rhymed off that. And that was kind of like his first little demo before Biz got there. Did you name him that or was he, call him himself Big Daddy? He was already Big Daddy.

But when he rhymed on that, I knew, I was like, yo, this nigger is way different from everybody I'm fucking with here. This nigg is the shit. This is the shit. the real shit because his diction was right he had the voice and I was like yo this dick a kind of dice and I went back to the record coming yo biz right is the shit yo biz right ain't new artists that's what they told me so well so on the low I would just record you know I would just record more with him every time we come I'm recording a little

more with him get more ammo and then after a while I was like yo we had his album done shit. But I kind of did his earlier recordings around BIS being late. So Biz must have C.B. B. B. Marquis.

Yeah. Bs. Marquis late is to thank Kane's career. Well, you know, especially the first record. Wow. Because that's how we first bonded off the first little thing. And at that time in hip-hop, because, you know, you just say so freely, like, well,

Kane was business writer. Was there any kind of stigma in terms of being an MC that had a writer You know the funny thing nobody With Biz I mean nobody never went at him For they probably didn't even know that he didn't write the vapors first

You know what I'm saying? They didn't know. Cane wrote the vapors for him You know Biz rhymes when he wrote a rhyme It was like a fun happy rhyme But any rhyme that made a lot of sense So he wrote sitting on the toilet then Most likely. I can't see Kane right in there.

I'm not the Caymore Bill. Yeah, I think Camero picking books. Has Biz always spelled his name in every rhyme he's ever spit? That be the other. Emmerzah. Emazzo. That was a selling point, too. He understood marketing very early.

I feel you. You're nearing the last hour, this very special Quest-Level of Supreme interview with the legendary Marley Maw, who just told us about working with some of the best MCs, of the 80s and not even dating it I think of all time period of all time

yes definitely of all time um so cool jane and grap in the same crew yeah because that version of raw that I heard where they just yeah why didn't that come out

what yeah like well to be honest why did it even make the B side of the real version your man g rat rhymed all the way to the end he killed it You know, he was like GRAP, I mean, that was a real battle.

That was really going on that. That was like really because at that point, Kane was getting so famous in the crew, and Grap been here already. So he was like trying to hold his around. So he was around before Kane? Right, he was around before Kane. Okay.

Yeah, he was around before King. So, you know, the new cat against the, you know, the street rap. You give what I'm saying? G rap was always that hard rapper with Polo. Now, they get to clash on a record going off on a crazy beat. Oh man, that shit was crazy when they killed that raw shit. So even then, did you feel like this is some historical shit that's...

Yeah, I knew right there because it was like the... It was my Titans right there going at it. Yeah, it was Clash of the Titans for us. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. So this leads to the story. Well, I have two stories of the symphony. Okay.

One, why was Shan not on the symphony? Two, why was Kane obviously not? In the video. Am I the first person there? Well, basically, you know, we made that record when we left the photo shoot on the back, when we all stand in front of it. Whose plane was that? We rented that.

It was a prop. It was a prop. Everything was a prop. You started many unreachable. Right. Of course. Like, I just thought, like, oh, that's what we got to do. We got to, we'll make it one day when we.

Yeah, no doubt. You know, I was the first Instagram stuff. The first Instagram front of. No, he's like, you know, we're getting in front of a plane. We look like we're doing it. We look like we, you know, We were really doing it. So we got in front of that plane and people thought we was really doing it.

Yes, we thought you were doing it. And then what, guess what happened? Then we started really doing it. It's like sometime you speak it into existence like that and we kind of did and the next thing you know, I mean, that wasn't my first time being there private joint. I was already experienced the experience in the Shantay era, you know what I mean? So, but we stood in front of those and looked like we just came from off tour, looked like we were so busy. and wow after that

those pictures came out and everybody saw that we really started getting that busy it came right in well that inspired and for sharing

not being on the record he didn't you know he didn't show up he was supposed to come he said I'll meet you O'Lear and he just didn't come and you know does he regret it

I don't know you may have to ask him when you get him here you know not once it was just like damn I wanted to be on that like I would have been salty you know that was a big record because look what it did for imagine if that was in dudes arsenal it could have been you know maybe a little different situation but different turnout really it could have been a little different I mean not to say anything's you know bad would do but you know he could have had that in his arsenal like yo think I'm on chef and what you know what I'm saying and and that means a lot

because master ace it's considered the greatest one of the greatest posse cut there you go so that that's Is that the first posse kind of all the time? I mean, we had to crash crew and all those guys. But this is like a posse of guys that wasn't a crew. In the same. Right, right. There's a posse of guys that, you know, we're in the juice crew, but we could hold our own. Right.

Everybody could hold their own kind. I can make my own record and still stand. But, you know, Master A's did very well from being the first person on that record. You know, and I put them there as a filler trying to put them there just in case. Ah. Oh, okay. He wasn't even supposed to really stay there. Who are you holding out for?

Hey, for whoever was supposed to show. I mean, in your mind, who did you think was going to... Was it Ra? Like, do you think Raqqq would have held his own on the symphony or that was too slow for him? He would have been dope because he rock American Beas president, so he would have killed that symphony. I think, to be honest,

I would have always like to hear I think Chantay could have been on the symphony. If Chanty was on the symphony, buddy, who, woo, we. She, you know. You're right. I wanted her to be on it,

but I had a record with her already on my album. So I, you know, I had a record. Wack it? Yeah. What was up with the war between, or the back of, I mean, they didn't necessarily respond, but like,

what was her feeling at that time? Was it like, oh, all these females are blowing up with these pop hits and, you know, when is my turn? Because by that point, salt and pepper was kicking in. I know that whack, it was probably aimed at either them or JJ Fat, whatever. But even, I guess she even addressed it on a bad sister, the first cut on the solo. record that she did. I believe she just wasn't.

What was their feeling at that time? Was it like, when's it going to be my turn? She just wasn't a fan of, you know, because she was kind of hardcore rap and going at people in the crowd. And, you know, she just wasn't with that pop thing yet. I mean, it's before pop was proven. You know what I mean? Okay.

So, you know, she probably didn't appreciate being, you know, rapping and going hard. And then they come in with, it sounded like a song they didn't even try to make. And it went really well. It's like. They just got lucky. You know, not lucky, but, you know, it just went well. Sometimes you don't put effort into something. You just rock out and say what you feel and put it in the atmosphere and it could work out.

But there's some people that go in the studio and bust their ass and it don't become anything. So, you know, maybe she just felt that, yo, I'm putting in work. And all they got to do is that and pop. And that, you know, but certain things are for certain people. You know what I mean? One thing about Kane, though, I'd notice that he, was sort of the neutral member of the Jews crew

whereas even Chris would shot him out on BDP records but I mean what was his position on being a Jews crew member like was it like yo why are you

cool you know was it to be honest they always had a special friendship okay KRS 1 and and Kain I believe that Keros 1

and Miss Melody moved Kane out of his place in Brooklyn when he first got his condo for his first album. You know what I'm saying? So they always had a special relationship. So they had a friendship way before. They had a friendship way before everything.

So they was already cool with each other. So was that weird or awkward? Like, I'm in the juice crew now. Well, I guess that was something they had to deal with. I mean, because Karras didn't mention him on any records. Right. And by this point, is Mr. Magic

Even a factor in 87, 88? At that point, Mr. Magic, I would say by the early 90s, he wasn't much of a factor with everybody. Everybody was their own person. I wasn't on the radio with him anymore. I was starting to do in control because I had an in-control album out, put it out in what, 89, no, 80, 88. I got the budget in 87, bought a house.

You get what I'm saying? So at any point doing this period, is this a, no pun intended, a water into the bridge moment? Like, have you ever not run into BDP in those years and been like, all right, let's talk? You know what the funny thing? I took it serious. I wasn't fucking with them dudes. Okay. You ain't seen me on no commercials, no Sprite commercials.

I was not fucking with them, bro. Really? Because in your eyes, they were trying to take your livelihood. Right. I'm like, dude, you know, I didn't improve how y'all. So fuck y'all. So I never did nothing with them. Wow.

Nothing. I mean, they wanted to be in the Sprite commercial. So even when the Shannon did the Sprite commercial, you were like, no. They wanted me there in there? I said, no, I ain't fucking with it. I'm not fucking with y'all. Did they mean you use the beat, though? Did they may use?

They could do all that, but you didn't see my face in there. You didn't see me fucking with that. So it took a long time for y'all to finally have that conversation. Yeah. We finally, you know. Because I never really understood why he was mad at us. I'm like, dude, I always thought in my mind, why he was mad at us, dude?

We're the motherfucking juice crew. We out here saving hip hop. Yeah, we out here saving hip hop, dude. And you got something to say. So I never understood why he was mad until one day I read his bio. And in his bio, he said, it all happened with a chance meeting with Mr. Magic. And he described what happened.

And I remembered that day. I said, oh, that was those motherfuckers. And then it all came to me. Oh, they was mad because that's them niggas that magic dissed that shit. He dissed them and slammed the door and left me in there with them. So in your mind, when you're hearing the bridge is over, it's coming from someone totally random that had nothing to do with. Right.

I didn't understand what it was coming from. And guess what? And I didn't even explore why. I didn't give a fuck. So I just like, yeah, fuck it. Let me just walk away for a minute. I never really realized until I read his bio in the 90s. I was at Hot 97 and Tracy's office, Tracy Clority's office one day,

and I was going through bios. I saw PDPs off, PDPs bio. I was like, oh, this looks interesting. See what they say about the beef. Let me read this. Right. And I'm going through it. It all happened.

One day we met Mr. Magic at Power Play Studio and he dissed us. I said, this shit never happened. Then I said, oh. That's them motherfuckers. And this was like, this had to be. 10 years later, yo. Wow. So how long did it take then for you to, when you see him again?

At some point, now that you, yeah, after he found out. After one day, it was like, yo, the way me and Chris met each other, I don't know where it was at. It was in a revolving door in the building, Dukes. I swear to God. Going to circles. Dukes. I was on one side of revolving door.

He was on the other. I looked at him. He looked at me. That was the first time we ever met each other, kid. Wow. So I came outside and I said, yo, what up? He's like, yo, what up? And then we started talking.

I said, yo, I was like, yo, that was your that power player. I said, y'all, I never knew why y'all had beef. He said, yo, actually. Then he started explaining it. And I was like, wow. I was like, yo, that was y'all. I was like, yo, that shit was crazy.

It just fucked my head up. The bridge is over was the original stand. Yep. Yep. Oh, yeah. Great analogy. Fraset. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, so after that, we spoke, and then after that, we got pretty cool. And then one day he called me and said, yo, let's do an album. Yeah, I didn't really talk to him until, like, it had to be like 2000. Damn. I wasn't fucking with him at all. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a podcast.

paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Some light's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Lesbian, Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I appreciate, at least as a fan, that it didn't escalate further. Whereas, you know, that seems to be the ongoing narrative for anything post-95-96 hip-hop.

No doubt. But, I mean, was it just that that wasn't even an option or were you careful and where you went? Like, I'm not going. I mean, I wasn't the one to go hang out in the Bronx at 2 in the morning. You know what I'm saying, with that shit going on. But I wasn't a fever. I wasn't a disco fever with magic a lot and nothing that never happened to me. I used to be there all the time in the Bronx.

You get what I'm saying? Did you, not club a lot, but would you go to, like, do you have Latin Quarter stories or the rooftop? Yeah, I would go. Maybe these folklore spots? Yeah, I would go check it out. I would go check it out. What was your spot in New York, too?

I used to like Latin Quarter back in the day. I used to like Latin Quarter was the shit. Would you go just to test? I would go check it out. Union Square. I used to like Union Square. The last show at Union Square was me and Shan, and the place got shut down. after that, never to open again.

Really? It turned into something bad. So you go to Latin Quarter even though that was Red's home? Yeah, I would go there. You know, just stop over there and see what's going on? Because he wasn't playing any night. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

He would be like maybe on Saturday night, he would be there. So for you, what's the typical night at Latin Quarter? Like, would you know? I would go through, see the ball busters, move out their way. What are the ballbusters? There was, like, a crew of people. You got to think about that. That was the time of it when everybody was wild in the New York City.

like 50 people would walk around and just terrorize a block. And you weren't annoyed at all? I would step back. I would always step back. And, you know, a lot of people would know who I am. And like, yo, what I'm all? And just give me that. I never had problems like that.

Never. Never in the streets out here. Never. I don't be having problems because I don't present that type of energy. Okay. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, I don't got no attitude. I'm good with everybody.

I'm gonna slapping people daps, taking my pictures. You know, people always got love when they see me. Most people's producing. producers are doing something and they you know am i what i did yo thank you for so-and-so thank you for and where about i go i never got to be i don't got i don't be having beef like that because i don't you know it's just not like that i don't carry that type of energy so how would you test a record like if you had an example of like a record you had that you wanted the DJ like would you use those clubs to test to see um oh yeah that would all see what they playing see what's hot

see what they fucking with, seeing, you know, seeing what they're playing with. What was your greatest story reaction of like, oh, this shit's just going to work? Oh, when I used to see, I already knew public enemy was a goal.

Because any time public enemy music would play in any of those clubs back in the day, regardless of what magic said, they shit was popping. But I meant for your records. Oh, for me, nobody beats the biz.

Nobody beats the biz. Nobody beats the biz was big for me. Something for the radio was extra big for me. Wow. Yeah, something for the radio. about that record and did Prince ever find out like what's that to me is one of the moves that that's that's a genius moment in sampling yeah for you one day i was yeah one day i

was watching the movie and i just saw it i was like yo that was dope word and i had the vhs and i ran it back and i just went straight to the akai with the vhs and did prince ever uh did they even get wise to it they cleared it from me one day Y'all was label meets. You don't get what I said, so I'll leave it. One day? I'll leave it. I'll leave it at that.

Never mind. I'm saying, hold of it. I'm saying that they used it in something and cleared it back from me. They didn't know where it came from. That's all I'm saying. I'm not to think about this one a little bit. All right? They used something for the radio and cleared it with me.

Yeah. Wait. Okay. I'm going to play this to some or radio, and I got to figure out what he just dropped in my lap. This is Bismarkey, something for the radio. Yo, this is going to bass. Yo, yo, go, stop playing around.

Bringing the bass. Okay, so for those that don't know, like, Under the Cherry Moon is one of my favorite B-C films of all time. boss bilkin the classic follow-up to purple ring yeah I think it's a classic I think it is too

oh it is it is even though you know critics are it's out of it you don't like it Fonte I did not like under chairmoan but well let me say this it is a classic the film might as well be called niggas and bha

it's a classic but all the wrong reason no but it is classic it is classic I actually went to the movies the that. Wow. I did too. I cut church to see the... Wow. Yes. And coming after Probe of Rain, it was just like, what the fuck is this? He's expanding, expanding a little. So, are you allowed to tell the meta story of it or? No, we'll just leave it at that. Okay. I don't know if the remix ever came

out, but I know one day I was approached by their team to declare that for a remix that they were doing and they used something for the radio. The most mind-blowing is awesomeest story. Well, it's kind of like the Jay Swift remix of Let It Go, where he samples Dorothy Parker. Yeah, but does he clear himself? He has to clear it. I don't know.

Like, does Prince have to clear a print sample on his own record? That's... I mean, probably through their publishing. If it's a different publisher, because I got a lot of titles and they're different administrators for different songs. So if I have a different administrator for something, I probably would have to clear it with the other side.

Wow. So can you imagine not clearing your own temple? Right. Getting sued by yourself. I'm assuming myself. So real quick, for Raw. Yes. To get that naked drum break.

Right. Am I assuming that you went to the UK to pick up the 12-inch of Bobby Birds? I'm coming to get that because that wasn't insert. circulation at that point. So you would like, was this from your, you're traveling to Europe and, like, what is your digging game like as far as? At that point, I was, I was digging kind of hard because I was, you know, ahead of everybody and trying to stay ahead of everybody when it came to these kicks and snares.

I wanted to have, you know, but the funny thing, the more I dug, the more I realized that impeached the president was the shit. I couldn't, I couldn't, I could never, I could never, yeah, it was hard. Yes, it was hard to find some shit that topped that one. And, you know, that made the most hits. So, you know, I would go to every country I would go to. Of course, I would go raid the record stores and look for certain artists and certain things, you know, certain situations. You know, I used to always do that.

But then after a while, you know, I would, I'm the type of guy like this. I love them and leave them, Dukes. I sample them. And once I put it down, I could lose the record. Maybe I don't have it no more. I sample it and it could be there. Once I got it in digital form, I might lose the wax or whatever.

You know what I'm saying? I'm kind of like that. Once I sample it and put it. Blas for me. I know, you know, a lot of times, like those original impeached the president records that I sample, I don't know what those 45s is that, dude. A lot of my records, like,

I got like a place full of records that I don't keep up where what is. You know, oh, this is the section for that. I don't really do that. I just, you need somebody. to organize your stuff. Yeah, start doing that because there's cats like me and maybe about 50 other cats that are now just in the preserving history business of, you know,

I'm certain that wherever that 45 is in your storage bin or whatever, like that is. I got it, and the bottom beat to the symphony of drums that that was an Aaron Fuchs hookup too. Oh man. I don't even know what the hell that is. That's a crazy beat. I was always trying to figure out how you had access to all these rare 45s that I will be charged $40, $50, $60, $80, $80, $80, going to Japan to get, you know, there they'll sell you synthetic substitution $45 for like $200.

And I'm like, you have these records. Yeah. He gave me a lot. And he gave me substitution back in the day, too. I got that on 40. 45. All right. So we got time to talk about Uncle L.

Yeah. Yeah. Always got time for Uncle. Oh, yeah. Give us the story. Like, how, I mean, at this point, you had the world in your hands. You came with Roxanne. You came with Chen.

You came with Kane. You came with Master Ace. He came with Craig G. Then I left the Juice crew. That's right. You went to Uptown for a second. That's right. I had left the juice crew because...

How? How? It was like, at that point, I got tired of it. I was like, Dukes, man. I did all this. Yo, I made like four albums this year. I only made $200,000. I was a staff producer with Cold Chilling.

And I was like, yo, I only made... I made four albums that year. And I was making $200,000 a year. And I'm like, Dukes, I could make one album and get $350,400. You get what I'm saying? So that was like, that was it. After I did those four albums, I broke out. So that was why you didn't really do none of the sophomore.

I was going to say you never did no one's sophomore joints. Let me tell you what I did. To be honest, with Cold Chilling, I, Dr. Dre, them. I just walked away. I was like, y'all can have this. Y'all do this. Go ahead. But was Cold Chilling a deffro-esque atmosphere?

No, it wasn't, it wasn't nothing crazy like that. It's just that I figured I could make more money over here. So I took, I took tragedy, Craig G, and we went our way. And then I was working with Heavy D. I had hits with Heavy D that started toppling what I was doing over there. You get what I'm saying? I made a lot of good records at Colchillon.

We had a lot of good times. Yes, you did, yeah. A lot of good historical records. You built Colchilling. I mean, yeah, you kind of built that. But those are not my most successful records and my catalog. I get it, but from a sentimental standpoint,

we're always going to think, oh, Raw, Ro Roach's the Riches, all that stuff. Of course. But those are not the ones, you know, those are great records, but those are not my grossing records that I can live off of to this day. No, I feel you. You understand? So there's a difference.

You know, I can't retire off that shit unless somebody sample it. Wait. You know what I mean? Before you get in the L.L. Right. Okay, you worked with tragedy when he was 12. Right. And then when he changed to intelligent Huttlam.

Right. I think that intelligent Huttlam record is probably one of your most slept-over. and the rest of the president. Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, black and brown. Oh, yeah. Dude, you, yeah. You were so in the zone with that.

That was my come out party, bro. That was my come out party where I'm away from cold chilling. Yeah. I'm doing what the fuck I want right now. I got this militant black dude that want to throw his fists up and pumped the issue. Let's go. Black and proud.

The rest of president, what? When you made that beat, like that, to me, to me was like, yeah, rest of the present. That and and intelligent hope was the... What sample was that? What sample was that? We remade that for game theory and didn't... Ah, shit.

I put it on the shelf, but that was one of my favorite Molly Marley Mar piano lines. I can't reveal it. Wait, come on, man. I can't reveal it. I can't reveal it. Not even in private. Not on the air, but I...

Let's talk. But, you know, I think that's when I first left, you know. I started working with Heavy, and I went to Uptown. You did Girls They Love Me. Yeah, I did Girls They Love is in the House. I worked on... What else? Overweight Lovers in the House. Girls, they loved me.

Mr. Big Stuff. You get what I'm saying? You did Mr. Big Stuff? I worked on that, too. I was part of it. So, and then the uptown's kicking it. So that's when I left the juice crew. I broke out.

I was like, I'm not fucking, I'm done. I did enough that I'm going to do, you know what I'm saying? I didn't want to, I didn't want to even, you know, I just went over there and started working with them. So what the biz and Kane and. Kane got with Teddy Riley. Yeah, Kane got with Teddy. I know, but I get a job done. I like that.

That was a good joint. It was cool. I mean, it was good. But it wasn't what else was going to do in 89, though. Right, and it wasn't what people expected to hear from him at that point. I know, but I always considered side two of it's a big daddy thing. As the deep voice, the dark gamble. No, that was we.

And what's this? And more of this. You know. No, I'm not with you. Because that was leading to taste of chocolate. Right. Donner was just like, okay. Barry White and Allison Williams.

He left the fellas and went to the ladies. I forgot about the awesome. You know what I'm saying? Nothing wrong with her? Not a shame. That's what I'm saying. And Barry White. I'm not ashamed.

That was the Allison Williams. Y'all ain't, man. Why are you doing this to me? Actually, wait a minute, no. You did the day you mind. I did the day of mine. Yo, okay, T.J. Swan. We didn't talk about T.J. Swan.

We got to talk about T.J. Swan. Where and who? Well, who. T.J. Swam. Who is the T. T. T.

T. I see T.J. Swam was brought on. Because I see T.J. Swan is not, there's some, another artist with T.J. Swan that is not the singing T.J. Swan. Right. Yeah. It is. It was a few. It was like, it was a T.J. Swan before him. It was like another dude rhyming. Then it was a singing guy. It was, it was somebody that made a record before even him. He made, you know, came up for him. I thought his record was going to come out. It was, it was supposed to. He was signed to Arista. A side deal Clive Davis felt that? Yo, let me tell you something

Let me tell you something You know, no, no, Whitney, hold on. You know, hold on, stop, stop. There was supposed to be a T.J. Swan and Whitney duet. Yeah, hell. You are. You are lying.

I'm not lying. Brat. TJ and Whitney? Yo. Nigger. Can y'all play some T.J. Swine. Oh, God. No.

You don't make the music. No, no. He's like the worst. He's like the best worst singer. Let me play Let me, wait. Is he still gonna love me lonely? Oh, Lord Jesus Christ. He always the best worst singer ever.

Wait. Wait. Wait, I got a fun. All right, I got it. All right, I got it. Let me play Left Me Lonely by MC San and DJ's Fores. I pick your speech. She told me her name, gave her number and all.

And when I stepped, she said I better. It took a bottom up, but she was finally mine. Everything was going smooth. We were doing fine. After a while, it wasn't a thing. We were either holding hands, and she was under my wing. She used to whisper in my ear. I'm her one and only, but she ran with another man and left me lonely.

Girl, when you have to be able to be. One of my idols, the reason why I even have 19 jobs today has just told me. That T.J. Swan, the loniest Jerome Swan. Was about to record with Whitney Houston. No, for real. I mean, to be honest, it was like a deal that Clive was like, Yo, Clive was like, yo, I want T.J. Swarm because T.J. Swan was on all these street songs. You get what I'm saying? Make the music with your mouth, biz. Nobody beats the biz. And I think they wanted some of that. They wanted some of that. You get what I'm saying?

Were you right? Because they started their division in the business. to 88 with Eddie Murphy's brother. K-9-a-K-K-Nawashi. 100%. I did fuck with that one, though. That's right. The past party. Right. 100%.

So you think it was Whitney to put the Knicks on it? Like, I don't know. No, no, no, no. Now, it's something happened with Cole Chilling where he was going to put out Swan and then a call came from somebody at Cold Chilling and he didn't want to be involved with going back and forth. So he's like, yo, he's going to pass on this one. But, you know, that's basically what it was.

We're here with Molly Mall talking about the career that could have been the great T.J. Swan. So we kind of joke about how on the show unsung, hip-hop is always the villain, like, for a lot of these old groups, and then hip-hop came and destroyed their career. Right. But New Jack Swing is sluble. is slowly coming around the corner

and is sort of edging traditional hip hop as the new choice or whatever. How are you adjusting it to it? Because now I'm starting to hear at least on live on stage and some of the stuff that the bumpy bass lines

that fresh prince's bass line right right right right. Right, so how are you adjusting to to be honest? I mean, I accepted New Jack's swing when it came in because I really admired what Teddy was doing back then because one thing I could tell you about Teddy, he was the guy that was taking hip-hop sounds

and putting it to R&B and key. And I was like, wow, that's kind of dope. That's, like, different. So I started doing some remix like that too. Kind of like, you know, I'll produce a few songs with a little bouncy bead bass line, roundaway girl and one of those little bass lines. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

You get what I'm saying? So I kind of made a few joints like that, too, because believe me, I used that Yamaha. That shit was so funky, though, man. I was going to ask, what is your keyboard choice? Like, what is... Back then, that was a Yamaha TZ, a small little module with the bass, base.

Everybody was using that one. Just before, I wanted to touch on this before we forgot, because I think, like, no one ever talks about these guys. The Flex. Oh, yes. The Flex. The Flex. These are the guys are singing on Darren Lighty.

Around the Way, Girl. On Round the Way, Girl. How do you know this? I was waiting for that album to come out after reading the line. And the Flex also had an album. How do you know this? Mama said, knock you out. They was on Around the Way girl.

They did a legal search. Illegal Search. Right. Now, let me explain. I read the liner notes. All right. But let me explain what happened to them after this. Okay, who were they?

They became very, very, very. big after a round away girl but you may not know you're about to drop a bomb aren't you I'm about to drop a bomb let me get it ready all right they produce Jaheen they produce Jaheen so all the backgrounds

is one of the guys Cliff Lytty he does all Jaheen's backgrounds could it be the one there every Jaheen background Cliff Lydie's doing all right Chris his brother

not his brother that's this different set of Lydides his brother Darren produces in touch. Too high. Wow. What? Yes.

I thought that was all keep sweating. And then what else did they do? They did, they did, like, it was so many records they did. They did, what else? Oh, and then Eric from the group became in Black Street. Oh, Eric Williams. Oh, wow. Oh, man.

So I'm trying to tell you. So all of them, all of them did very well after a round away, girl. That was kind of like an intro for them, but, you know, Cliff. Did you find them? Of course. I walked in the Sandmash one day. There's a lot of visiting there. I walked into Sam Ash one day.

I was looking at a keyboard. The salesman was showing me on the keyboard. Say, hey, it does this. Boom, boom, boom, boom, it does this. He made a beat right in front of him. I was like, oh, that shit is hot. Give me two of those. Right?

I get it home. I can't do nothing. I go back to the store. You're my man, I can't do none of that. He's like, yo, it's so easy. I was like, yo, hold up, man. How much you making him, bro? That was Darren Lighty.

Ah. How much? Straight up changing people's lives. How much you work? How much you get up in and Sam Asks? Because I could double that. Yo, he quit that day. Came up to the house of hits and that was it.

We was good. And we started and we started making him on the spot. On the spot. And he showed me, he became my programmer. So where does L.L. into the picture? Now, L.L. I was doing my radio show, and he was promoting Walker with a Panther. And, you know, I knew it wasn't the greatest album for him. But I still was giving him props.

I still were giving them props on the radio. You're going to walk with a band. Maybe, look, look, it came out dropping them and like. It was joints on there. It was joan. Jingling was on it. Dude, night, night, I didn't like the original. I didn't like the original.

I didn't like the original. I didn't like the original jingling. That's what got me on. I said, yo, let me remix that joint when you said, running niggas over like a redneck trucker. He said, oh, yeah. He said, oh, okay. And then Brian got me the vocals.

Not there is. That was Jim Kelly's karate. Yeah, yeah. That was Jim Jones. Nah, bro. You didn't like that. Dropping them, nitro. What else is that?

I like the join on side, too. The A, the B, the D, the D. Yeah, that's not. And then that's no ruffles. Like, Farm Squad had four good joints on that joint. You didn't like big old butt. Four. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

With your drums. With your drums. Yes. You said four, right? Nitro. Nitro. That only had, like, 20 songs on it. Yeah, it did.

You know what it was? And it had, you're my heart on it. In two different worlds. Oh, you should see his face now. You only get your own. One shot at love. Look, here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Oh, right. And that wasn't T.J. Swan. Walking with the Panther is sentimental to me. I just graduated high school. Okay. It just came out. I was curious to figure out if L.L. was going to graduate to break feet. Okay.

So the fact that dropping him used the meters join. I was like, okay, he's, he's grad. Because L.L. is always like an indicator for, will he jump to that next level or not? You know what I mean? And, ah, so I don't know. Maybe it was the fact that I just graduated at high school, which was like. It is.

I like a lot of shit in music too when I was a teenager, it's okay Yeah, but he was definitely promoting that And he came to his station Well, I like, I like the jingling me I didn't like that, Marley Remigms I was like, that remix was like, that remix was it

That was it. Am I assuming, I'm just going to ask The one that I'm used to is the Marley Religious Yes, the one in the video is the And you say in New York City Right, right, there you say Dance to the Remix single of Yeah, right, right.

with the walking in the sunshine shit, man. So you remixed it? They gave me a shot to remix that. And, you know, we remixed it and it came out pretty well. Did well. And then we went in the studio kind of on our own and started making an album.

Without authority from the station, I mean, from his label, we just started making, you go, come to the crib, let's make some joints. Boom. We like five in, four in, four in, six in, seven in, boom, boom, next thing you know, we bring it to Russell.

And he heard, booming systems and that was it. Boom, you're like, yo, you want to do an album? Yo, it's done already. Why did you do two versions of booming system? Ah, because we needed an edited version and we need one for radio. I mean, the invogue version was the version that I heard.

That one, okay. I heard that first on radio. And then when I brought the record, I heard the... Like, they're both on the single. They were both on the single. Yeah, both mixes were on a single. But on the album was a different one. See, Philly Radio just played the Invogue version.

So when I brought the record, I was ready for that, and I heard the baseline. I was like, wait a minute. It's changed a little. I mean, I actually like the album version better now, but I always wanted to know, like, was there a problem? I didn't want it to be, because we made boom and system. It was straight off of Invoke. It was straight off of Invoke. You just looped it?

Yeah, I just looped it up and let him go. But then we put the record out, but the guys from InVogue, the producers, Yeah, they was like, yeah, we ain't going to see you. bro. We're gonna, you know, but. Was that an air-infused trap? No, no, it wasn't, though. So Beverly O. Scott, take them bananas.

Yeah. No, but to be honest, that's one thing I can say about them. Back in them days, they was like, go ahead, bro, that's a banger. They was like, yo, you got it. I was like, really? They just gave it up. They saw the vision because they knew it would make their shit even more official. Right, right.

So they didn't even go at me. It was like, yo, go ahead, little brother, young brother. Go ahead, bro. They did me like that, and that was real good. They, like, the only cast that ever did that. The Foster McGill Boy, man. The Foster McGill Boy, boy. They was like, go ahead, little brother.

Do your thing, man. I was like, well, okay. And we're going to fuck with you with that. Wow. Just do this remix for us, for it. Turn around. They hit you with the dad funk. Then they hit me with the, oh, we want you to remix.

Hold on. Did you? Yeah, I remixed it. Oh. Yeah, so. That's solid. Yeah, so I was like a tradeoff. They didn't even bother me.

I was like, wow. So did you feel. pressure? Because at that point, I know that, like, L.L. got booed at the Apollo and, you know, it was a new generation and now his fate was in your hands. I felt no pressure with them, because I already knew, I knew what I could do for L. I think that everything I've done to cold chilling, with cold chilling, were heavy to up that point, got me ready to get that Grammy with L. You get what I'm saying? You know, it's kind of like I was in training. I was in training all my life, sparring and getting up

to building myself in the ranks to get with LL and get that real shot. You get what I'm saying? Because by time we did that, you know, it was great for his career and great for my career. What is it like to now see LL be the ambassador for the Grammys? Because here we are like years later and he is the man.

He's basically the spokesperson. Of course. Believe me, I fucks with him all the time. Believe me, when he do these shows, I'm calling his ass before he hit that stage and we always talking. And I'm fucking with him. We laugh at like a fuck. That's my dude. I fucks with him.

You know what I'm saying? Before he do most of those shows, he always get a call for me. And I know they tape him early, so I catch him in the morning and fuck with him. You know what I'm saying? And we'd be laughing our ass off and he goes over there. I tell him, then the next day I call him, yo, yeah, this shit was so-and-so. I'm proud of you because I'm proud of that dude, man. I'm real proud of him.

Was the folklore of his process real where he, like, had to go back to his grandmom's basement and right and getting that mood. Yeah, he lived at my house. Does he still have that Queens residence? I believe they still own that residence there, but when we did, Mama said knock you out, he literally came and lived at my house. He was that serious about it.

So did he feel like I have something to prove? Yeah, I'm sure he did, yeah. He had a lot to prove after walking with the panthers. Yeah, I mean, did he feel like, ah, man, like I still got to come. come with it because it's still yielded hits like Biggle butt was still getting played on yeah I forgot that but he wasn't I think I think to be honest he knew what he wanted you get what I'm saying he wanted the respect and the he knew what he wanted because he came and told me he's like yo you know

he started telling me this story you when I first heard Kane I was like oh my God when I first heard someone so I was like oh my God you're like yo how could I do this you know I'm like yo come you get what I'm saying prep I gave him the prep you get what I'm saying and we went and then just tore niggas down. At least, give me the story of, like, making that record. Did you know I was monumental, or was it just like, yeah, here's another beat? I kind of felt that in a way what it is because Bobcat,

you know, DJ Bobcat, you know, he had the sample. He had this, he had it sampled up on a disc, and, you know, we was going through sounds, and he was playing that. And then I just added a drum to it, kind of filtered it, flipped it, and, you know, we let, and then I let my, you know, I let my dude, you know, sometimes I, what started happening with me after a while, I started, I started not want to record people vocals. Sound familiar? I hate recording vocals. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, I started after a while, I want to make the beats, but I can't, I can't stomach sitting here doing the vocals too much.

So I didn't, so. Finally, someone that knows the pain. Yeah, so, so I said to my engineer that day, I was set to my engineer, just record LL vocals, you know, record it, right? And I stood back and he was rewined and then press play and record. And but L.L. didn't know what was going. And he said, come on, man. Ah.

And then the beat dropped. Ah. And I was like. So that was a real, him getting annoyed? That was really him screaming at the engineer. Poor engineers. I was like a hip-hop engineer abuse. Start with all the abuse that engineers have to take at the hands of rappers

and monitor men. I had a question about, I'm going to knock you out. Milky cereal, not Milky Serial, Mr. Goodbar, the little snippet. Nah, nah, I'm saying, if it can happen to me, it can happen to him. What is he wrong? Yeah. Yo, it's so funny

He just, we just decided to give it out a crazy intro. He just said that, just a bug out. That's it. Yeah, yeah, we just give it a crazy intro. And Murder Graham was just... Yeah, Murder Graham was his little story about...

But I meant, like, was it supposed to be live? Oh, yeah, it was supposed to be live. We kind of made that up to be live, put the crowd in the back. But, you know, I think they try to sue us for using the name Ratmania. They was coming out everywhere. Really?

Yeah, it was kind of. coming out of everywhere. I'm like, come on, really? Side note, does anybody have a copy of Rap Mania? I don't know. Yeah, I think they tried to sue us. I've been trying to find that shit for years. That's crazy.

Rap Man is... It was a pay-per-view concert. Yeah, Rat Man. Where Red Man went out of his mind on the monitor man? I... Not. This was pre-red. Yeah, this was like 90.

Oh, we got to do some research. Somebody finding Rap Mania. Wow. Yeah. Okay. I remember. Because I remember asking my parents to... To get it on pay-per-view in there, like, nope.

And that's why we put live at Ratmanyo in there because we're trying to act like we was on Ratmania. Okay, okay. And Cheezy Rat Blues was his story talking about how they treated him after Walking with a Panther. Say cheesy rat, you ain't all that. It just hit me.

He did To the Break of Dawn as well. So that makes number five. Oh, you are. Distracts, yeah. Yeah, to the break of dawn. I can't handle the whole way. You are. Yeah.

It's Ice-T. Who else was in that? We got this on that right now. Oh, he got Ice-T, Modi, and Hammer. And Hammer. And Hammer. And Hammer. Or I know about Ice-T and Hammer, but I didn't know that Hammer and him had a situation.

Yeah, he had beef with Hammer, Ice-T, and Kumodi. He went at all three of them on, to the break of dawn. Did not know that. To the break a door. And by the time, 91, like, Modi was kind of, I mean, that was, yeah, it was over. Right. Because New Jack was kind of like going where it was going. You know what I mean?

And a lot of Mo Di's tracks was kind of, he was on that New Jack sing hard. Yeah, all New Jack tracks. Well, you have Rise and Shine. Go see the doctor earlier. Come. No. Ain't that funky? No.

Ain't that funky. Funky wisdom was a- No. Okay, thank you. But he was always lyrical though. Who you think, and the battle-wise, what you think of rock, Mo D or L.L. What do you think? Lyrically,

did you like Let's Go? I like Let's Go. I like Let's go. We did the L. Lethargic. Luster. Lazy. Limer.

Limer. Limerickette. Limerick. So much alliteration. Lillian. Lilliam. Lillipap. Yeah.

No, I like Let's go. But lyrically, I think that was like for me, like watching the L and M-D. I always respected Modi because he really was the only guy from like the original like original NC school he's the only one that survived

you know what I'm saying so I always respected him I just think it was a time where it was a thing where it was really like you were saying earlier more like the old line versus the new line and to me like MoD had lyrics but LL could take his shirt off

and it didn't matter no more you know what I'm saying so it was like it was just kind of he was I think he was as a lyricism, Modee was dope, but he was just kind of his time had passed at that point. I think of the two L.L.

responses, I mean, to the break of dawn was my favorite. But again, I'm a music guy, so. No, I'm with you. I like two to break the dawn,

too, because he was cool. Right. He was like, it was like he was either cool ale or like Holland Jack and Ripper L. So, and I always like just the cool.

How did you get cool L delivery on that song instead of his house? I told him we can't scream no more. That's so real. Basically, yeah, we can't be angry on records. Because you've got to take a different approach. You got to, instead of screaming at him, you got to talk to him. And that's what we did, kind of like we're jingling.

Right, Uncle, that's when I told him, it's like, oh, he wanted to be super aggressive? Right, he wanted to do his vocals over the other way, kind of like the first ones. They called me Uncle Al, three, two of the fuck. I was like, no, no. No, no, we're not going to really do that this time. Let's, like, you know. It's actually interesting you said

because I first heard the biggest change in the L's voice the first time I heard booming system. Like, it sounded like a completely different person. I didn't even know it was L. I didn't even know it was him. It just came on the rail. I was like, who the fuck is this? And, yeah, it didn't even sound like him.

Yeah, it was a lot of effects on the voice too. So let me ask. Because there's always the yin to the yang. Let's jump three years. later. Got you. 14 shots of the dome. Okay.

No, God. No, because it was all, like, I remember that being the first review in the source that had consequences to it. And Russell

was not having that. And, you know, the original Mind Squad reviewed, like, the first time that their record review could influence their reader and it causing a response or maybe a retaliation or not for someone in hip-hop was that walking with a Panther record. So what was different about the process of 14 shots to the dome

than Mama said knock you out? Big, big, big difference. It should have been... It was supposed to be the follow-up to Mama said. It should have been the victory lap. Right. But guess what? Guess who started acting around that time?

The hard way with Michael J. Fox. No, no. Guess who went to go do the toy in the middle of my project? Oh, that's right. Yeah, the toys joined. It was a... Oh, too. Yeah.

With Robin Williams. Right, right. So that's kind of what happens with that project. In the middle of the project. Losing focus. We're in the zone. We're in the zone. Next thing you know, I got to go away for nine.

months to go do a movie. I'm like, Dukes, we're in the middle of an album. So how long did Mama said knock you out take to record, the album? Like two weeks or some shit. And then 14 shots was out. He just knocked it out? Yeah, we was banging him down like that.

Mama said knock it out. Yeah, we was banging him down like nothing. I told you he came and lived up the crib upstate so we was making maybe two records a day. And then 14 shots was how long? 14 shots took about a year and some change to make because... 14 shots took 14 months.

It took too long because... Now, you know, now, you know, he's coming like a week for like a record or two. I'm like, dudes, we can't make records like this, bro. We... We... We... We... So you feel that the disrupted rhythm...

Yeah. ...of not bouncing off each other. 100%. That's exactly what they did it. Oh, God, now you're scaring me. Stop looking at me like that far. No, no, serious. Because he...

Dude, when he started, you know, making movies, and then all of a sudden, we wasn't in the studio as much. We wasn't vibing like that. Wait, everyone, listen, everyone's looking at me, like, all right, Mr. 19 jobs, you better drop everything to do this shit next week. I hate hearing the story. But what it was, though, you know, it's like he started focusing, and, you know, he did good on that movie.

And then all of a sudden, you know, that's when the movie starts, you know. You know, the movies started coming in and the TV and all of that. And, you know, the album didn't really do well like it should have because I didn't have no real time to do it. I didn't have no time. And then, if I made something six months ago, this shit ain't hot now. You get what I'm saying? When we made the other album, that shit was so hot off the press, yo, the fucking reels was still warm.

You get what I'm saying? Did you do Crossroads? I was involved with it. I was involved. I was involved with. They made him. Yeah, they made him make that. Wait, who's they?

Wait, was this dad in the picture right now or? Ah. Yeah. Hollered over opera. And the hollering came back, the screaming. You get what I'm saying? You get what I'm saying? When I was listening, bucking him down.

That's I'm trying to say. All the screaming came back. Well, because he probably felt, especially after the heat of doing it on MTV Unplug, you remember the deodorant years, the deodorant years, that. And he did it at the MTV Awards. He had a 90-piece band at the MTV Awards. Hit me 12 times. Mom said, not yet.

He was hot, yeah. You probably couldn't tell him nothing. He was back. Right. Oh, man. She's telling me that he had to, if he had more focus and did it in a concise time period of maybe a month or so, it would have been a different result. Yeah, I believe if there was no toy movie. That was a weird fucking movie.

It was so weird. And then when I saw the movie, I was like, yo, this what that was for, dudes? That was a weird fucking movie. We did this for that. Right, right, right. We blew an album for that, though. Yeah, because the movie didn't do well. No, the movie didn't.

No, the movie didn't. Well, wait, let's not totally tank it because, I mean, backseat of my Jeep was a classic. Yeah? Yeah, backseat of my Jeep and pink cookies. Pink cookies. But that remix, though. The pink cookies. Oh, yeah, the remit, yeah.

The movie remix was like, yeah. Crazy. I like that. No, no, no. They were, yes. There were moved. There was moments on there, but it wasn't enough moments. I didn't like, stand by you, man, was like.

Stand by you, man. Stand by your man. So after that, like, what was the feeling, the aftermath of? Well, I mean, that's when I think the trackmasters took over and then probably took all my beat loops and made everybody beats and, you know, did what they did. But, no, I mean, you still had Lords of the Under. Oh, yeah, I moved on with Lords.

Yeah, I moved on with Lords. And that's when Lord started popping, Funky Chow. Lords of the Underground. So how did you mean them? Because they're straight, they're Jersey. Well, I had an idea of a group called Lords of the Underground. I had the name, but I was looking for somebody who would be Lords of the Underground. And I saw them perform.

They used to be a group called New Jersey Funk. Oh, yeah, that's a better name. Lords of the Ground, better name. That's what I'm saying. So when I saw them perform, I said, oh, that's Lords of the Underground. So I was like, look, I'm looking to do a group called Lords of the Underground. And would you all like to be them? And they're like, yeah, because they had the energy.

and everything. And, you know, and we made a little history with them. They did really well. Yeah. I mean, Psycho was, oh. That, when Psycho came out, that was the 93 beat to freestyle over. Wow.

And Philly. Wow. I didn't even know. You know, the funny thing about putting out these records. Really? Yeah, the funny thing about dropping a lot of these records is, reasonably, I don't know how well they do. Like you said, that was an excellent rhyme and beat.

In Philly, I didn't know it was one of the top people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, that's what every cat in Philly wanted to freestyle. Wow. Psycheo. Piece of Philly right there. That's real talk, man.

Wow. Yeah. Like, I felt like you were, because that was you really, not even graduating, but, again, updating your sound to modern hip hop. There you go. And I felt like, oh, okay, Marley's on a mission to really. like not revenge but like to let y'all know like i'm still in this motherfucker and because it is hard it's hard for people to last that long right and still remain ahead of the

curve of that sort of thing so yeah no doubt i think with psycho i wanted to take it there i definitely wanted to take it there because i felt there was a new group i want to come with like a whole new sound and a whole new look for it and you know psycho did what it did and then you know we He had to bust him in the head with Chief Rocker and all that other shit. Yes. Peace to Cape Deaf. Where are they now? Lords, they're performing.

Does one of them live in Paris? Yeah, the DJ lives in Paris. Okay. Do it all. You know, he's running Jersey. And I'm funky. He's in North Carolina. And, you know, they're still tall over the world.

They still, every summer, they go on those festivals. They rocking. They never stop yet. That's what I can say. Yeah. Yeah, they're still going. Just to make sure. Yeah.

All right. We're about to wrap up the show because, you know, you probably have a nine-hour story. But I always wanted to know the deal with On the Real with Nas. Nice. Where did that come? Like, was that initially supposed to be on Illmatic? Yeah. It was originally supposed to be on it.

And when he was making his album, you know, just after he did a few singles, and he was, working on his album and Biggie was out. And, you know, he had a concern. He came to visit me. I was surprised. One day, Nause was at my door upstate. Oh, shit, Nause is here. What up, baby?

We're talking. And we're talking. He's like, yo, I'm ready to work on my thing. You know, making my album. He said, yo, he said, you think people's still going to like me? I was like, hell. Is this for the second album or? No, this is like that album.

This is why he was working on the album because he had the singles out first. Okay, okay. And the barbecue, you know, the barbecue was out, so he was hot. Right. But then Biggie came. You get what I'm saying? And he came, like, yo, you think, you think they're going to still love me?

I'm like, dude, you're the nigga that said fucking, you know, you went to jail for snuffing. Jesus, nigger, nobody's going to ever forget that. Right. I said, matter of fact, let me throw you, let me show you something. Let me throw you on something. So I threw up the on the real beat. And his man, everybody, and it's like, oh, shit. It sounded vintage, though.

Like, how long have you had that? That was, I had that. I kind of, like, held that out for him, because I already knew that Nause would murder this shit. Certain beats I just hold out for certain artists. Okay. If I could just hear. Like, I just got a beat with,

with Action Bronson. You know, I had a beat that I know that would fit action. One day I met him, yo, I got something for you, threw it on them, and we got a joint. But, you know, sometimes, sometimes I just hold out a beat for something I feel that would go to an artist.

So I put them on the reel, and he loved it. He did people who were on verse on it and his people kept telling him, yo, that's the shit, that's the shit. Yo, yo, God, that's the shit. So time went by. The album was almost finished.

I'm like, I guess he ain't going to use the shit. Damn. You get what I'm saying? So I was like, fuck it. His album came out, he didn't use it. So I fucked around and put Core Mega on it. And Screwball. You get what I'm saying?

Right. So it was like a QB song. So I wasn't trying to put it. I was just making a song just to have a tape around the hood. Fucking celebration with all. There was never no tape with mega, damn, and screwball on it. And then I think he heard it. And then when he's like, then he really didn't want to use it.

But then when he did the anniversary, 10 years later for El Maddie, he's like, yo, that was supposed to be on the joint. Let me put it on the 10 year anniversary version. So that's why he went back in, did his vocals back over. and then use it as his record. But it was originally supposed to be on the first album. I see. So that's why he put it on the 10th anniversary as a bonus

because it was supposed to be there. So all the projects that you've done in your career and you've never, never stopped making music. You made the collaboration record with Karras won finally. And what is your proudest moment as a creator? My proudest moment as a creator is, watching TV, watching myself win a Grammy. When they, you know, they mentioned our song

and they mentioned the artist and who produced it. I saw it on TV. I didn't even go because I didn't even think we was going to win. What? And, you know, plus, because they wasn't presenting our award. Yeah, the pre. Right. So they said, and tonight, so-and-so, you get what I'm saying?

So they put us in that. And when I heard that, I was like, wow. I was home. I was like, wow, people started calling me, you got a Grammy. I was like, oh, shit. So that was like one of my proudest moments. It's like it all boiled down to that.

Where do you keep your Grammy? In the studio. Oh, okay. You still prepare it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some cats that use doorstop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever.

In the bathroom. I know, I know, I know. Toil the paper holder. It's the greatest place to put you Grammy, man. Yeah, yeah. No doubt. Where's your is at, Bill? In a shelf at my house.

Yes, in the shelf. Got to do it. In the toilet? In the toilet. Okay. I still have a toilet. Next to some other shit. Dog, I've learned so much about, I'm mind-blown.

Like, how much? I'm still working through the whole. Oh, yeah. I'm still working through that. And Whitney. Wow. I'm never using real high-hat again. That's what I tell you, man.

I'm just talking. I'm speaking. Because we're so, you know, we're just using anything we could. You could. had a fucked up, Mike. You know something. Stuff that didn't work. As you say this.

All right. You remember the group Switch? Used to be on Motown. Yeah, yeah. If you can, if you can listen to their second album, Switch 2, they had a single called

The Best Beat in Town. Now that I think of it, the high hat on that was them. The Beatles did that too. Four. What's on? It's in Revol. or some some shit.

Like you can hear them going, ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch. I have to see. Okay. I'm not making that up. That's true. No, no. I'm going to go home listening to Revolver.

If not, I'm a B-J-S. No. You're not going to hear about it at some point, so that's fine. Well, Marley, well, no, we got to do our reflection. Yes, reflections.

Where do we start? Fonticillo. Man, what have I learned? What have I learned? What do we learn today, man? Man, I think I learned, you know, just so much, it really, for me, just hearing Molly's story, it just reinforced for me to just kind of stay on the path that I'm on. So much of our early records, you know what I'm saying, with Little Brother and, you know, they were just done on really primitive equipment.

And, you know, even to the point that when, you know, after, you know, you get some bread or whatever and you can build your own studio, my studio now is still pretty basic. You know what I'm saying? It's not a whole lot of gadgets and it's still pretty much a small space. So just to hear that all these classic records that I grew up listened to were essentially made just, you know, in his kitchen or at his crib.

I mean, that's, it just shows to me, I think, just, you know, it ain't really about what you got. It's not about the gear. It's about the person that's using it. You know what I mean? And just to hear the story of how you triggered samples before there was an SP.

I mean, I remember trying to work in SP by my, you know, when it actually came out, and I was like, what in the hell? So just to even be doing it back then, it's really amazing. But, but no, man, his career for me is a big inspiration. And, you know, this is my first time seeing Bali since, shit, 03. Like, future flavors. Well, we came up.

Future Flavors. We came up, me, Pete Rock, Little Brother, Knife, Poole, we all came up there. And we did it at his crib. Sugar, Steve. What did you learn? Infinite stuff tonight. As an engineer, it's very interesting to hear the early days of sampling and all the use-what-you-got type of technology

that I started out doing, too, on a double-cassette deck, not a four-track. And then all this stuff about how you were creating those songs that became classics just for your radio show. And making that connection between, you know, the old school DJs advancing things into the DJs making their own beats, you know. And that's a big connection to make, you know, to understand how hip-hop started. Yes. Lessons of Belown. Boss Bill.

It's the high hats, man. It's the most mind-blowing thing because one, that's one of my favorite beats ever, and it's mostly because of those high hats. So just to find out that your mouth is the source of those high hats. that just kind of fucked my head up. So that, yeah, that's a major takeaway from me.

I'm sorry. I wish I had something more substantial, but that blew my mind. He dropped many bombs tonight. blew my mind. Unpaid Bill. The visionaries and icons that come on the show

all come from these places where they, people that live around them are in the next apartment or whatever are integral parts of their visionary status. Which is amazing. And so like,

with Marley, it's like, Queens Bridge and all the people in the thing. And like with Ray Parker was Detroit, right? And all the people out of Detroit. And both of you did the same thing is when we asked you a question that we didn't know the answer to, like, did you do this? Both of you said, of course I did.

Like we're the idiots. Like that's the dumbest fucking question. And I love that. Because it was like, man, shut up. Which is how I feel on this show just about every day. It's a lesson. It's a lesson for all of this. No, I'm joking, but yes, I love that part of it.

Thank you. Laya. I knew you were a legend before we had this sit down. However, I did not know you were a national treasure. And I feel like the rest of the world, it just needs to be acknowledged. And I really hope that, you know, you and Amir continue this conversation with the Smithsonian. Because I don't feel like there should be a Smithsonian with the history of our culture, inclusive of hip-hop, and you not be there yet.

We need to get that board back. We don't even need, whatever he does it. Whatever you got. The real. The real. I got the real. Oh my God.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I just, I just learned it like you need to be, it needs to be a four word by Marley on every like, hip-hop blog that emcees or DJs think that is their Bible. Like. I got you.

Yeah. Marley, I really appreciate the fact that you had so much experience. in this business and you remembered a lot of detail because that's that's kind of one of the hardest things about a show of this caliber

where you know details become real shaky and you know people don't remember things and you know I feel it's like really important to document the stories and keep the tradition and the history going I'm mind blown by so many things

but let me I feel very validated with the, it's all about the guitar pedals. You just did an Instagram thing about that, right? That you're putting the drums. Yes, and I'm going back to now, you can't tell me nothing.

It's all about guitar. Guitar pedals. Well, I thank you very much for your time. Marley Maw. Give it up, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, bad. I appreciate it. What's Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode,

was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserve. We always say, you know, trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone, I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore,

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