The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Michael Brauer

Episode Date: March 8, 2026

Grammy winning mix engineer Michael Brauer talks about the art of engineering, his studio secrets and what it was like working with artists such as Coldplay, Luther Vandross, Aretha Franklin, Grace Jones and more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, it's Will Ferri. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Korsloves Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Grammy-winning mix engineer Michael Brower talks about the art of engineering, his studio secrets,

and what it was like working with artists such as Coldplay, Luther Vandros, Aretha Franklin, Grace Jones, and more. This was episode 56 from November 1, 2,000. 2017. Suprema, Suprema Role, Suprema Role. Quest Love is single, yeah. Quest Love is free, yeah. Quest Love is dancing, yeah. Christ love is on the beat.

Suprema, Supraima Role Call. Supremma, Supraima Role Call. My name is Fonte, yeah. Coming through in the clutch. Yeah. I can give you a little, yeah. But never too much, never too much, never too. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, sub, suprem a roll call.

My name is Sugar, yeah. I'm never sour. Yeah. That purple room. Yeah. Give it back, Browell. Oh, call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call.

Suprema, sub, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Boss Bill ain't ready. Yeah. Ready to start? Yeah. We wrote my roll call. Yeah. of heart.

Roll call. Supriva. Subrema. Role call. Suprema. Subrema. Superma. Ro call.

Yes. With Mike and his hands. Yeah. Then touch Keijo, Colplay, hauling those. God damn. Roll call. Supremea.

Supreme. Role call. Supremma. Subrema. Suprema. Supreme a role call. I'm Brower. I'm Brower.

I don't know. what else to say, but I'm Brower. Roll call. Suprema, Suprema, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima, roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima,

Role call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Well, Lightyear actually hit the, the nail on the head. I could just name them all. Luther, change, main ingredient, Cheryl Lynn, Grace Jones, Jones Girls, Quinn Guthrie,

Angela Beaufield, Arretha Franklin, James Brown, Kevin Campbell, Gladys Knight, Meatloaf, Tony Bennett, Paul McCartney, David Byrne, Billy Joel, haul and notes, kickriola coconuts, and now the show's over, ladies and gentlemen. No, what they all have in common is probably a very distinct sound.

Most notably, Luther Vandros had such a sheen and such a clean texture to his music, which I feel defined 80s FM radio brought to you none other than the master engineer. With us today on Quest Love Supreme, welcome Michael Brower to the show. Yes, so. Thank you. Thank you. Now, my personal favorite shows of any shows that we do are with the president,

company excluded looking at Sugar Steve are the engineers because they to me shape the sound of the artists that we love so much. You know what I'm saying? And more than, you know, often I don't even think the artists really know that I don't think the artists know much of the science that goes into the product that they deliver. But the engineer can explain it. So we thank you for doing this with us. honored. Yeah, I'm honored you agreed to do this.

For our audience that's not too deepened... Technical nerds. What is the role of an engineer? To get the vision of the artist down on tape as closely as possible. To record it in a way that when you put the faders up, you've got the feel of that song nailed.

So it's more than just a documentation of the event, but trying to get the emotion and the feel across. Now, often, are you part of, because people don't know that tracking a song is different than mixing a song. So is it important for you to actually record the song so that you can really determine the outcome of what comes in?

Can we rewind a little bit? What's the difference between what is tracking? Okay. What is tracking? There is a big difference between tracking and mixing. Tracking is when you're recording all the instruments to multi-tracks, to many different tracks that you can control the volume over later. And so how you record the drums and how you record the vocal and the bass,

all that is very, very important to make sure that the feel of that song comes out properly. and I started at a studio called Media Sound, which was an R&B studio primarily, and I just spent seven days a week in there, just starting as an intern and then working my way into an assistant. But the point that I watched that was made clearly is how great the engineers were at this studio

and how well they, they recorded the sounds so that the artist would come in and just go, oh my God, this is exactly the way it should sound. And it would change from song to song. Media's where you first interned? That was your very first gig? Yes, Media Sound was my first gig. What year was this?

This was 76. And then I was an assistant by 77 and then an engineer by 78. So did you? staff engineer. Wait, why did that whole process take me eight years? You're still an intern. You give me some more coffee, please. Times are different. I mean, back then, everybody moved up pretty quickly. It was just, I've just noticed how quickly it slowed down. I mean, there was a time, as Media Sound and many of the studios, you had an engineering staff that comprised of the staff

engineers and then the assistants that were being taught by the engineers and then the interns. And eventually the engineers would move on and assistants would move into that slot. And then around 79 or 80, when the bottom fell out of disco and all the labels were basically getting rid of their roster, studios couldn't afford staff engineers anymore and they only had on payroll the assistance. So moving up to become an engineer slowed down dramatically by two or three years because the engineers coming through were all transient. You know, they were just coming in for a bit and then moving on.

And so studios just wanted basically professional assistance. So are you saying that from the mid-70s to the very early 80s that there was actually a boom and upward mobile movement. Because when I hear any veteran of the music industry talk, they always speak of, you know, the slowed down period of a particular part of the recording industry. And, you know, some people think that period was like, well, in the early 80s, you know, the industry was over.

It was over. Musically. Almost for a while. Every period, every year is like, it was over. That year was over. Well, you know, the studios were starving because there were no more acts coming in. They'd all been dropped. Okay.

Right. So in order for studio to stay open, they couldn't have staff engineers also on payroll. So they forced pretty much most of the engineers to go independent. So when people say, like, Thriller saved the record business like that is not much of an exaggeration. Because from the period that you're saying, like those early. 80s. Like it was kind of, it was, there was a time when, when bands came in and they had carte blanche with a budget. And I remember this distinctly because of our food budgets. Yeah, man. I mean, what we ate during lunch and dinner was amazing. And then one day,

none of those bands showed up anymore. They were all off the roster. And then, you know, when it started to, bands were starting to come in, it'd say, okay. So what do we do for food budging? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. We don't have that anymore. Mickey Dees. Do you think that MTV sort of helped with that as well? I mean, of course, with Thriller, yes.

It was the top seller. Yeah, I think it was super important. It was also important that bands that were maybe mediocre, but had great presence via MTV just became huge hits. Okay. So who, do you remember your, your, Did you get a job of the studio as an intern because you, were you in love with music,

or was it just like, oh, I got to get a job with me? I was a drummer with a band. It was just a cover band, and we were out in the Midwest. And I liked what I was doing. I wasn't sure that I was going to be good enough to make a living off of it, but I had gone to Eastman School of Music right when I graduated for, it was like a two, three-week course. And it was there where I met, well, there were a lot of, a lot of people.

But one of them was Phil, Phil. No, no, no, no. Vermont, just forgot his name. Spectator. Ramo? No. Oh, my God. It'll come back to me. But anyway.

Sorry. What was an engineer or? No, it was a great producer? sir. He just recently died. I can't believe I just... Phil Ramon. Phil Ramon. Yeah. Thank you very much. And, you know, until then, I was pretty scared of what they were, they were very technical. And I didn't understand anything they were saying. And I was thinking, man, you know, I just,

I was a performer. I want to continue doing that. And how is this going to go on with, with people just talking about EQs and reverbs and wet and dry? And I was like, oh my God. And so it was after a day of lessons and we're all sitting around and Phil Ramon is talking at a table and we're just sitting around and he's, you know, he's just talking about how when he's mixing and his hands are moving and I'm just sitting at a table and go, wow, this looks like he's performing. I thought, man, this could be amazing. And there was at that point just watching him describe how he mixes. I thought, this is be perfect. This is what I want to do.

I want to continue performing. And it just, to me, it was like, instead of playing drums, now I'm playing the console. When did the days of, like, I'll see old studio photos of the Beatles and even some James Brown studio session photos and like engineers were actually dressing like engineers with the white lap, those suits? Yeah. Like, when did that particular? period come to an end for engineers like i think that was mostly going on in england and abbey road

i didn't see unless there was a couple of studios where jazz studios where that was very evident but i never saw any of that i don't think that was really going on in uh in any of the american studios. So how important is math and equations to you? Like do you go I'm a guy that goes on feeling. Like I'm, you know, I'm just learning

about different DB levels and hurts and, yeah, hurts and you know, overdrive and the, you know, with hip hop, it's just like more about feel as opposed to, you know, science. A guy like Bob Howard would say, well, you know, too much base, four level

base will cause your record to skip and so you got to balance it and take it, you know, you come up with these equations. Because I know that your calling card or your signature is how you use compression, which I used to think compression was the enemy of music. But you made it work. So like, how important is math and science as far as? I'm a hundred percent feel.

Everything else is a coincidence. I mean, you can analyze it and go, oh, he does this and he does that. or when I started mixed with a master's where I needed to teach and actually verbalize what I'd been doing, that's when I had to actually kind of study what I'm doing and try to, but it was always by feel. If I was looking for a delay, I would just turn it till it went, ah, you know, if I slap on a vocal, I would just keep moving it too far, too little, and just didn't, hmm, that's no right in. But I never, you know. I mean, I'm not making a joke.

I mean, that's how when he gets on the board, he just, you know, he'll boost up the level and then sweep the frequencies. Yeah, that's how I learned. That's interesting because when I was, I guess, out of college, I was interested in being an engineer. And then I realized the science of it. And I figured at some point, even though you are doing it through ear, at some point, it's like you have to know the formula of megahertz and the this and that. Oh, thank goodness. I didn't have. to do that because then I would have never

been in a way. That scared me away. I could have been that's actually what kept me from doing it because I almost was a music engineering major in college. Then I saw all the physics classes that were required. Oh, wow. Oh man, we could have been so. I'll tell you what, it's interesting you say that because I was terribly

intimidated by people who talked like that. I mean, really, really bad. And I would have to leave the room when they'd start talking. I'd go, oh my God, I'll never be like that. They're so smart, you know. there. And I'll give you the best example where I learned my lesson and this may change me forever. It was at Media Sound and we had just started, it was right after outside engineers are now being

allowed into studios because at Media Sound, there were no outside engineers. You came to Media Sound to work with their engineers. But with the death of disco and studios opening up, there was this engineer and so he's describing you know we're just in the lounge or just hanging out and he starts saying yeah i've got this uh acoustic guitar sound and i've got this ms positioning where i've got it for two inches one mic over the other and then i bring it up and i bit you know and it's like beer and baseball to me you know and i'm like oh my god i'm just and i started getting that feeling in my stomach where I'm just like, oh man, I'm never going to be this way and it's how I feel when I wake up. And I was just like, man, this, I just wish this guy would

shut up because I just, you know, it makes me feel awful because I don't know what he's talking about and I'll never do that. So I go, hey, can I hear what you're doing? He goes, yeah, yeah, come on in. It was in studio way. It was beautiful room. I know it, you know, every inch of that room. and he plays it. Sounds like shit. And it was crap. And I was just like, wow, that is not good at all. And I say, okay, cool.

Thanks, man. No, I didn't say anything. I was just like, the Keen-field sketch. I said, be, yeah. Did you say that? Yeah, I told him that. You know, I'm just thinking myself, man, what an idiot I am.

being intimidated and everything and walking in there thinking this guy is god you know and it sounds like crap and so i left there and i thought never again will that happen because it's always about feel and i don't anybody you start talks big yeah if i go in and i listen to it and it sounds good then i'm going to be curious to see how he did and i'll be interested in learning but all the talk talk talk and all the numbers you need to know and and and you know formulas None of that means anything. And in ORNB, it never meant anything. I mean, you know, I learned, you know, it was because of being around Luther and, you know,

that whole crowd and that whole field that I started mixing on the upbeat. Like, I never really moved much. I used to move down. And I'd be the only guy in the room on the feeling, you know, down. and I look around everybody else's heads are bopping on the up you know I was like I would try that and I'd fall out of

you know I'm like I really am the only white guy in this room you know can you can you trust your ears in a studio for me the final word is when it's yeah when it's outside the studio

and I know like most studio speakers are intentionally built to be more dry than what your home experience is. Like, how often can you just know, okay, this is it? I really trusted my speakers. I would take it home, but it was never, my speakers at home were never accurate. They were kind of whacked, and so I stopped doing that. And I'd listened to headphones, but then I was intimidated by listening to my mixing.

in my headphones because I was afraid they'd sound awful and I'd hear stuff. So I was, I never wanted to put headphones on. A lot of insecurities to get where I am. But, you know, I actually, what I learned to trust, I was mixing some records in Japan. And they had this boombox. And they played back my mix through the boombox. And when I, they first started doing that, I was like, oh, wow, man, this boombox sucks. It's not good at all.

And then you go, oh, you know, maybe we fix this, we fix that. Yeah, okay, but I mean, you know, listening to this, that's awful. And then it got sounding really, really good. And then I listened back to on my proax. I was like, whoa, wow, this sounds great. I thought, ah, I've just learned something. And you've probably seen it in my room. It's like this old Sony box.

Every song I've ever mixed, I mixed through there and I trust that radio. So when I know it sounds good there, it's going to sound good on my proax on my ATCs or all the other speakers and it's going to sound good outside. And I also learned a lot from mastering engineer. I mean, the first 10 years or so I mastered everything with Greg Calby at Sterling. So you wouldn't trust the process of them. You would actually go and make sure that they didn't flatten you. out or anything. Well, I was learning. I mean, he mastered my very first record. And so I'd go

in there because back then it was called Mickey and Becky was a Christian act. Oh, wow. Okay. Former records. Recorded and mixed and they were really great people. I mean, so many stories with that record. But, you know, that was the first record. And the cover had. a banner, big banner across the two of them, you know, Mickey and Becky. Oh my God. Yeah. What's my first record? Who were you an apprentice under when you finally got to assistant? Who was your, who was your? My mentors were Harvey Goldberg. Okay. And Michael DeLug and Fred Christie and Clear Mountain, Tony Bon Jovi. I mean, there were a lot of great guys,

but the two that really took me under the wings were Michael DeLug and Harvey Goldberg. In your assistant days, what were your clients like? Were they local acts, any national? About everything. I mean, fat back band. Oh, shit. Oh, God. Talk about that.

Wait a minute. Tony Bon Joie was doing fat back. And, I mean, just all, you know, heavy R&B was on. Name him. Yeah, well, good question. remember two of them at least yeah um he's a fat back i'm like man spanish hustle yes kington let the drums beat which one yeah kington none of them come to mind now's but it's so long ago let me see god who did the hustle yeah van mccoy yeah but there's also a hustle for the fat back band as well

oh they had one too yeah oh yeah now it was but it was van mccoy he was a regular he was a great guy um okay how old were you at this point? I started at 25, so at this point I'm 26. Got you. I started pretty late. Were you scared? I was older than most of the engineers.

I was older than Clear Mountain. Oh, wow. Yeah. And Harvey and all those guys. Were you afraid when you finally took the reins on your own? Like, how do you make that leap? Most engineers I talk to either their lead guy, like, decides to take a vacation or is sick that day?

and then next thing you know. Well, they were great there because you start off by doing overdubs. Okay. So you would record a guitar, overdub. And then you'd move on to maybe backing vocals. And then you'd eventually move towards

doing all the percussion, and then strings, and then horns, all separately. And eventually, you know, the day comes, and I remember the day I got the call. So it's going to, to be on you know it's going to be an ad date it's going to be pretty big session it's just going to you know drums bass and you know the rhythm section and then maybe and maybe you know

backing vocals and the singing and stuff like okay that's cool I can handle all that and then about 10 minutes later the orchestra shows up she calls back well she calls this is for the next day and Vivian DeLug calls me and she goes so listen you know they're also going to have strings and horns at the same time. It's all alive. It was Studio A. It was a huge, huge room.

And she says, you know, I don't think you're quite ready for that. I was like, no, no, I'm ready. I can do it. I can do it. She goes, you're sure? Yeah, yeah, I'm really sure. I go, okay, click. I went over the bathroom.

Blah. I'm like, just ready to pass that. I can do this. I can do this. And then she calls back again, she goes, look, I don't know, Michael, now they've added also a whole, whole percussion section, vibraphone, rimas, car chas, you know. And I was just like, yeah, no problem, it's no problem. Click. So you're saying that typical disco sessions? This was an ad date. Okay, an ad date. So it was for a commercial or, you know, for some kind of,

who knows anymore. It was a long time ago. but they had a lot of musicians. I mean, because the studio during the day, we were doing commercials, and then come 6 o'clock, we were doing records. Because you couldn't get any of the musicians during the day because they were getting doubled and triple scale, right? So nobody was doing records during the day

because records are single scale back then. So Media Sound was very well known for doing commercials from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. And so I'd finish at five, take an hour, and then I'd start records until them. And I was doing double shifts. I didn't care. I loved it. Okay, so I want to get into some of your clients.

Billy Joel. Before we start with all the ones you want to talk about. Well, which Billy Joel was it? Let's back up because with Billy Joel, there's some of these acts like Billy Joel and Aerosmith where it was part of a box set, you know, I would just do a couple of songs. Which song? I never met Billy.

I never met the guys from Arrow Smith. So those were one-offs, which, you know, was fun, but. I read you also did mixing on Freddie Hubbard. Did you do? Yeah. He did Red Clay, was it the Red Clay album? Yeah. And it was another, it was another CTI record.

And that turned out to be. Wait. Yeah. He's still in your swag right now. I'm going to see. Red Clay. He's still used to. That was, that was Steve.

Yeah, that was the alley, bro. I'm dunking it. Just give me a chance. I'm approaching the hoop. Elevating. What about Red Clay? Well, you know, because that's Rudy, right?

Yeah, but it was, it was after, way after the record had been done. I don't remember why it had to be remixed, but that show was, you know, that album was remixed and it was Steve Berkowitz, I believe that was, you know, the head of that.

The live version of the studio version? It was, God, it's so long ago. I think it was a studio version. Okay, okay, okay. Because the... You weren't... I'm coming from the hip-hop perspective. There's a studio version, that's tried

live versus Farsight. Yeah. Yeah. So, any other... What other CTI, right? records were you associated with? That was it. I mean, again, it was going through Sony, through Steve Berkowitz being re-released,

you know, just like the Dillon Records. Okay. It was a point where they were, you know, they wanted to do SACD, and so a lot of these records were being redone. With the Dillon records, the Masters had been lost. Oh, so you're completely mixing from scratch. You're not just taking the half-inched

and the final, the original. Wow. Okay, so what pressure is that on you? Because I'll notice that this explains a lot when, like, when I go on iTunes and I'll hear variation in the mixes of, like, the box set versus the greatest hit remaster versus the original version. You know, it'll be a ring in the snare and I'll notice different mixes. Of course, you'll, you know, I assume that you'll try and stay faithful to the original. But what keeps you from, but you're known for such shame. like what if you're doing a project that is okay if you're doing something from

john wesley harding or something from like yeah it's trash out not trash something dilling if it's trash it's not appropriate to make it anything less than trash so you do believe in a trash now i love trash see okay see this the thing though could because i was just gonna say when i was listening to some of your stuff you know like get busy how dirty get busy is yeah right I was like, listen man, I want to mix something like that for you because it's dirty. See, but this is the thing, though, because...

I don't want to do. Sheen was years ago, you know, that's what was cool. But times change. The thing is like, when I think of... Like, even when I think of what hip hop was trying to be the anti or go against,

especially like with public enemy, like I'm thinking, oh Luther Vandross because I'm like what's the the the shiniest most brightest most clear I mean now as a DJ I respect it you know because I love when a good mix translates over the system but how how do you think as far as like your your definite did you set out to say I'm gonna like just redefine what R&B was because with the exception of off the wall most R&B records weren't that super clean. Yeah. With Luther, you know, it was, I mean, there was nobody like him. When he came out, nobody was singing like him. But it was pretty basic R&B.

And I think the sound we were getting at Media Sound, it's not like I did something completely different than what we were already doing there. And I think I just, he looked at me, he goes, you take care of the sound, I'll take care of everything else. And he had met me when I was doing the change record. And he really liked what I had done with glow of love, you know, and searching. Those were the only two songs I'd done on that record. And he was like, that's all you needed.

And he was like, I really like what you did. You know, I don't know, I thought you had my voice a little dry on glow of love. And I go, yeah, but Luther, you know, it was just like. it brought that vulnerability out. He goes, yeah, exactly. I want a more reverb. Can I ask you guys a question as a novice? What would be an example of a badly mixed R&B record to give people like a reference point

since Luther was the great? I mean, see, the real rap, honestly, like for real, Prince albums. Oh. Yeah, Prince Records, but this is the thing, though. That was part of the kind of appearance. Prince albums are bad, and he admitted that, you know, because he did it in his bedroom. You know what I mean? Up to what hour?

And the thing is, if you work too much on a song, your ears will start lying to you. I don't know. Do you agree with me? Or are you above the... No, I like to take a lot of ear breaks if I can. Yeah, like a lot of times, like, okay, a cat like Kanye West will blast,

he'll blast his music on the biggest speakers ever, and you'll wear your ears out. So a lot of times, when you're mixing, you're supposed to mix on soft speakers, very low level. Because the thing is, if it sounds good on crappy, you know, like your clock radio at home. Like what he was saying about his box.

Like, you sound excellent. So you shouldn't wear your ears out, and you should take ear brakes. But, um, I don't completely agree with that. I, you have to feel it physically. I mean, I start off with the big speakers with my,

I've got the ATC 50s and a big ass sub. And when I'm getting the drums and the bass and, you know, everything else on, it's cranked. But I don't do it for hours. I'll do it for, you know, under an hour, clearly. But I'll get to the point where I physically feel it. And when I know where everything is in its right spot, then I'll start to turn it down.

And then I'll progressively get to smaller speakers to the point where it's on my radio. But I got to physically feel what I'm mixing. I got to feel that bottom end and the kick hit me under the, you know, in the stomach and the snare in the chest. But to finish the point, if those first Tim Prince records had a professional scene mix

it wouldn't be the same record I agree like I I agree his this is where Bill kind of gets mad at me because I'm slicing everything after the love sexy period like once Prince upgraded to Paisley's Park

studios and had you know better better equipment I just I hated it I hated it because it just it took Okay. The songs were great. And Stevie, too, same thing.

The songs are great, but I felt the personality was in the mistakes and the, kind of like a Wu-Tang record. Like, you know, like Dr. Dre is great for Sheen, but I love the rissa in the basement with Mildo. Okay. And, you know, the second they went to L.A. and did Wu-Tang forever. Yeah, you heard. Got all clean.

Yeah, you're right. And I was like, ah, it sounds like everything else. So sometimes only the best won't do. Thank y'all. So the thing, the more you know. How, how much of a taskmaster was Luther as far as like his, the, his discipline, his anal retentiveness? It's unbelievable. Because I know in concert, he's like, what is it like in the studio?

It was a great experience. He, I mean, him and Nat Adelaie, who was arranging, um, And on the first record, he was, this was in Studio B at Media Sound, and he was in the vocal booth, and then the band, the whole rhythm section, you know, was in the, basically performing, recording it live. And once he had a great vocal take, that was to take. I mean, that first album, those were all, I barely touched any of the vocals. those were all the rough vocals those were the final vocals on on that first album

and when you say touch on what would what would you mean? I hardly did it in other words maybe I'd maybe I'd you know record a word or two oh okay got you know just edits yeah but it wasn't even edits

you know it was all hitting recording in and out real quick so just jump in and out on one or two words but you know it was an incredible first record and it was done in bits You know, we did, you know, two songs on a weekend.

It was over a period of a few months easily because he didn't have a deal yet. But to answer your question, when you'd see him get to work when it came time for doing backing vocals, oh my God, it was just incredible to watch because, you know, the first, he always doubled the backgrounds. And who, you know, they would be the regulars, you know, Fonzi, and Thouatha, Brenda and Sissy. Sissy, occasionally. Sissy would kind of come in as a, you know, as a guest.

But there was, and even Whitney came in a couple times. Okay. But, you know, he had the regulars and then he would do the first pass. And then the second pass, he would change everybody around. Say, okay, Fonzie, you take this note and I'll take this note. And, you know, and invert the... Invert stuff. And if somebody just went off a tiny bit or, you know, they were doubling and someone else, he'd notice it right away and go, no, no, no.

Fix that. And so the reason why the backing vocals always sounded so incredible is because he wasn't just doubling. The doubles were always different. Really? Yeah. Because, you know, he would just have people take different parts. When you're initially tracking a song, like take, all right, let's take,

never too much. That was done up in the lounge. How much pre-work goes into your tracking before you know you have a take? In other words, does the band have to play it over and over again until you pre-mix it to? Oh, no. I get the sounds before they walk in.

Or, well, they'll walk in, you know, with never too much, it would have been Buddy Williams, right? Buddy would have come in, and I would have gotten the sounds on him. Back then, you'd get these in like 10 minutes, basically. And so, you go, do, do, do, do, snare, snare, snare, kick, kick.

Okay, we're good. And then bass. So you see that your rough sounds, close enough for Luther or Marcus to not be discouraged like I don't know this. I'm trying to imagine what a rough mix of never too much sounds like because to me the sheen of it all. There wasn't the makeup on it to me is the product, you know, not the glue, the hair weave, the mascara. You make me one a year. It was, there wasn't much difference.

Really? between doing the rough and the final mix because I was recording it that way. I was recording it, feeling it final. I was riding the faders during the recording. And all the monitors were set at basically 1 o'clock. And so the way I would record is to keep leaving all the tracks at 1 o'clock. And I did all my rides so that when I'd have to. to bring that song back up really fast, I could just do it with a pencil, and I'd have my balance,

the exact balance. Because, you know, if you've got to do backing vocals on four or five songs, it's not like you got 10 minutes or 15 minutes to get a rough mix. You need it right away, because they're on to the next song. So you just, with a pencil, it goes, and there's your mix. And so when it came time to mixing, the mixing took like a couple hours. like two or three at the most that's crazy we were at media sound we were if if you took more than three hours to mix a song you were just not cool really cool yeah we would mix three of more songs a day yeah steed let's speed things up yes steed things up yes steed which of you two is sorry steward's over thinking well it's just that he's saying the exact opposite of what my

are. Like, okay, take on things fall apart, take act two, love my life, which is pretty much a root supporter favorite. But the rough mix sounded nothing like the final mix and a lot of my compositions is strictly done on faith of, don't worry guys, when we mix it, it's gonna sound like this. I've heard you say that so for a long time.

Yeah, and it's like, you know, and for the longest, Tariq hated, Like the version, the version that's rough, if I finally cassette, maybe I'll leak it out. I mean, it sucks compared to what the final was. And I just had to be like, yo, man. That's the one he likes. Just write to it.

No, no, no, no. But just like, he didn't like it. Common started writing to it. And it was like, all right, let me add my verse. But because the tracking, when we were done, it just had no life to it. And I was like, dog, just trust me, see my final vision. I'm going to have strings to the thing.

I'm going to mix the snare rule. You know, and they had the snaps on it and all this stuff. And then the final mix, it was like, yo, this is nothing like the, but that's what. But you're doing the production at the time of the mix. That's what's going on there.

That's the difference. With Luther, everything was done as we were recording. All the decisions were made at that time. And so come time to mix, it was just the final process. But everything was made, 99% of the record is, is done now.

Just put it up and ride it properly and we're done. So if you want to put a phasing effect on the bass or something or just a little bit of chorus on it, you would do that as you're tracking? If everybody thought it was a good idea, yeah. And we committed to it. Okay. See. All right.

I thought that if it sounds good dry, then it's like, okay, this is a song and then wait till we dress it up and then. Well, yeah, but did it sound good dry? Not really. That's where we went, well, let's make it feel great because otherwise we're not going to print it. When we recorded, it's got to feel great. Everybody in the room's got to be excited.

You said it so much. I thought it was like some extra honor in whoever the engineer was that was mixing the album after it was done. Like I always in my mind, I was like, okay, the recording engineer is one thing, but the mixing engineer, that's like a whole other level. That developed into it

where you had guys who became strictly mixers like myself. I mean, the first person I remember that being like, wow, you know, people were coming to him just to mixing would have been Bob Clear Mountain. Okay. You know? So it is? And Tony Bon Jovi and, I mean, Godfrey and a lot of the guys at the studio became just really, really in demand for what they could do with these tracks.

But, you know. Let me ask you a question, Michael. So when it started to become this person's a recording engineer or known as a recording engineer, and this person's starting to become solely known as a mix engineer, did it immediately start to be some kind of like a financial difference as well? Huge. Mixing engineers notoriously get paid more than recording engineers and mastering engineers. I don't know if they get paid more than mixers, but it seems like, you know,

it started to become more separated and... Very much. In the beginning, my question is why, do you think mix engineers deserve to be paid more than recording? I've always,

obviously they're being paid for their... Who gets more? Wrong person to ask, but... Who abuses more? No, I mean, to me, tracking or recording is pretty hard work.

It is hard work. You're not just using your ears, you're using... And you're spending way more time than I am to mix what you... you spent weeks and months recording. But it becomes a specialty.

And the more you can really enhance the vision that the artist had originally and do it in a way that is blowing everybody's minds, the more in demand you become. If you're a mixer, we're the only people that like your mixer, your friends, you're probably not going to get all that much work. But in the beginning, everybody who's an engineer was a mixer. Well, yeah, back then, you did everything, yeah. You did everything then.

But we started to realize that some guys were much better at engineering than they were at mixing. And vice versa. And vice versa. I always thought that Bob Power was a way better mixing engineer than a tracking engineer. But then master is a whole other level. is like if mixer is the peasant to, I mean, if recording is the peasant to mixer, then mixer is the peasant to master.

Yeah, the master is like the last step. That's like the last step that, you know, hopefully. You mix what's mixed. If you're doing it right, the mastering engineer shouldn't have too hard a time. But he probably gets paid the most. I don't know about that.

There really depends. But as you said before, the same thing holds true. If the recording engineer does his job right, then the mix engineer shouldn't have too hard for time. There are tracks where if I know I'm getting something from Joe Chichorelli or a bunch of great engineers, and I know I'm going to be mixing them, I'm like, oh, it's going to be a good day. Okay.

So since you said that, I now think that the mixing engineer has it harder because there have been a lot of times where my mixing guys will be like, like, you know, I understand the nightmare that there's a lot of times. going through. Then we have a situation with one of our interviewees where they said that they got a, who said that, oh, Just Blaze explained that you know, they would get bad, uh, tracked

Jay Z songs. Oh yeah. And a guy like Jay Z doesn't understand the technical jargon. He's just like, yo, I want my shit right in two minutes. You know, if you're with a client that is not, you know, technically, you know, up there with his IQ to understand certain things,

I almost feel like the mixing engineer would get more abuse because it's like, yo, why my shit sound like that? Because that's how it came to me. They're not going to understand like, well, you know, the tracking was bad and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, I never, we learned not to use that as an excuse.

We just made it good. And we had to figure out how to make it sound good. I mean, way before drum samples and we were doing, you know, like disco records and you get this kick that goes, te-de-de-de-de-de-de-de-d-de-d. You're like, What am I going to do with that?

You know, and we learned how to make it sound like a great kick. So are you more not afraid, worried about the producer and artist at hand versus the ANR and label president? Like, so say, okay, great example. If Nile Rogers was extremely satisfied with the way that he mixed the Diana record, Barry Gordy gets it and like, this shit sucked. you know and then hired his own guy to remix that entire 1980 album so I know that because the majority of your stuff was on Sony and Arista

and stuff that you know is Clive talking to you like you know I like my mixes and da da da da da well it's very clear what you were going to hand into Clive it was going to have to be all about the vocal and so the challenge was to make sure that you got a real good groove going with the rest of the rhythm without making it sound like it was a huge vocal up. And that's where I learned how to EQ certain things out of the record so that for Aretha, I could make her sound really, really loud, but you could still feel the track around

her. So of your hits arsenal, what was a recall nightmare? You know, did you have to do Freeway love like five times over like how often would you have to recall a mix until all parties were satisfied it wasn't much of that going on back then you know you might recall it and back then it was almost like a memory i mean they'd they'd start writing stuff down a little bit but i would just kind of put the tracks up and recording like now you know you can recall something instantly we're pro yeah there's no comparison i mean there's just no comparison now you got to do if you're mixing on an analog desk. No, back then, you know, you'd recall the desk and, I mean, I got my guys trained so that you could,

you know, you could match the mix to the recall perfectly. I mean, really had them taking good nose, but quite often I just throw the track back up and it, I don't know, I would do the same things I used to do and then I'd look at it and it would sound just about the same. But it's interesting you brought up Freeway Love because that was the turning point for me that particular

record with Nerada because something changed. Well, I didn't record it and that was a bit of a challenge, but he wanted a lot more bottom end than I had ever done before.

And that was truly the most horrific day or two in my life because as I added more bottom end the vocal started to come down because the stereo compressor was just grabbing grabbing because the stereo

compressor reacts to to low end more than top end and he'd say hey give me more vocal you know bring the vocal up and it's like oh my god and then the bass would get squashed and just the whole mix started going so I survived it.

Let me put it that way. I still can't really listen to that song without thinking what I went through. How should Steve? We're talking about Free Way of Love by Aretha, right? Yes. Okay. Now, it's a funny song.

I never understood the lyrics. Free way of love and a pink cat. Why you got your pants will tie. Yeah. Yeah. But the mic that you would use for her? Yeah, it was a 414. I used a 414 AKG with Luther and everyone, everyone.

And I had it angled in a certain way. So it was the bottom of the microphone was just tipping at the nose. What was the reason for that? It would look at their face. That's what I was getting. I was getting their face and their throat as opposed to just the mouth. so I get the nose and the whole face this guy's mic and faces over here

and that's his mouth and if for wreath of example if she would you know kind of edge up into the microphone because it was licking down I would just put a dummy mic in front so she'd be singing into like a 57 it's like keep her

position proper so her head wouldn't go up like that yeah yeah oh wow look at that wow so but four four 14, that had a really nice area. And then I was using my Neve, you know, I was recording on a Neve desk exactly like the one

that we have here, 8068. Shout out of the rest of the one. What kind of preamps or compressors were you running them through? It was the Neve pre-amp and the Neve compressor that was in the desk. Oh, wow. So like no outside, like Tube Tech, none of that stuff? Not, no.

Not when I had the Neves. It was perfect. So another one of your clients that I'm really curious, about. I've always wondered about the the quote-unquote compass point sessions of Grace Jones's trilogy. Did you mix

and? I only mixed it. So did you have to go to Bahamas to do it or that's after? No, I mixed it. The entire album? Yeah. I really love that record, man. I mean, you know, for hip-hop heads, the my Jamaican guys like, you know, it's a staple. So in doing that record, which, you know, of course, with Sly and Robbie as the, as the, as kind of the rhythm anchor of that album

and them being known for a lot of the stuff that they've done with reggae music, what was it like for you to sort of incorporate? Because a lot of that record, you know, you have to use a lot of reggae effects like echoes and all those things. Like, what was that process like mixing? You know, it just came to me.

A lot of that was just, this is what it has to be. And, you know, it's, back then, it just happened spontaneous, spontaneity. That's right. That's right. Words. It was, you know, just another day. Really?

Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, you know, just the legend of Compass Point Studios and what's supposed to represent, you know, now in hindsight, it's legendary folklore. Yeah, I mean, but Sly and Robbie were incredible, just incredible. So mixing those records, did Chris actually produce those records? I get the feeling like his name was just wanted it. I came in. I came in.

I came in later, you know, for the mixing of it. So I don't know what process, but I think Chris was always involved in those records. Talking about Chris Blackwell. That's what I was guessing. Thank you. Bitch, I guessed it. I was, I needed some, was that sly stone?

No, I was, Slide Dunbar on Robbie Shakespeare. Thank you, I. But they're known as Sly and Robbie. As a team. The infamous rhythm section, they're bass and drum, drum and bass, rhythm section. Yeah.

And the folklore of Compass is? Compass points. studios is a facility in, I believe, Bahamas. Yeah, in the Bahamas. And pretty much Chris Blackwell wanted Grace Jones to get out of disco music. She was doing, you know, like, Viola Rose, I forget the, LeVille. She was doing, like, you know, a album and all that, weird disco shit. And he wanted her, he was like, you know, you just like, you.

you would have a better fit doing more pop reggae stuff because like the police was hitting and sort of fusing that together. So what they call the Compass Point trilogy is three albums, nightclubbing. Okay. Live my life. You nipple to the bottle, pull up to the bumper.

All those songs that you know Grace Jones for were recorded there. That's love Supreme. Learn something new every hour. um okay i know it's not classy for an engineer to tell

but there has to be a heart client like one that just rode you to the limit yeah there's hardly any records that I feel that you had bad results in but

everything could have been a sunny journey from 80s no no there was one uh where I was just mixing his record. It's not good to tell you who it is, but I'm going to tell you that he comes in and says, all right,

and he puts his feet up on my desk, right on the console. Now I'm like, okay. You know, as we grow, right, thank you, Steve. As we grow wiser, you get to understand how different people, you know, tick.

and by doing this he was going to show me he was in control. That's what, that's what, you know, all the body language was saying. He walks in. Pissing on the carpet. And he's, yeah, he wants to piss on there and just say this is his territory, but in fact, it's mine. So he says, all right. I said, all right, I'll let that go. And he, uh, he listens to it.

And he looks at him and he goes, yeah, you know, it's okay. But, uh, I got a problem with this. I got a problem with this. I'm like, okay, fine, let's get to work. And he just complain and complain and complain and just really was, there was no point in it. Now, I was, I believe, the third mixer on this. He'd already mixed this record with two other people. And they said, I think I know you're talking about.

And they said, Brower, you're the only guy that can be able to handle this. Because at that point, I'd reputation for, you know, knowing how to deal with a lot of different egos and stuff. And so we kept going at it and going at it. And he just started getting more and more upset and being more and more disrespectful. Finally, I stood up and I was like, well, this session's over. And he looks at me and he goes, what do you mean? I still got more. You're like, no, no, this session is over.

Because at this point, he's kind of swearing at me and, you know. Okay. And I just stood up and I shook his hand. I went, see ya. Okay. Can I just ask one question? That was one time I did this. Can I ask one question?

Yeah. Does this artist go by three names? I knew it. Does it go by three names? No. He went by one name. Oh, Questlove? Was he from the same town?

Own is Questlove. Oh, it was you. Really? I could have to be a chance to Darby. Oh, wow. I've got a great story with Trent. What? Trent.

Resda? Or Terrence? Terrence. Oh, wow. Terrence. Yeah, I mixed, and I did some extra production on if you let me stay. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow.

And when I was first being introduced to him, Lincoln Clap was the, I mean, not Lincoln. Lincoln. Oh, what was his last name? Oh, I can't remember. Lincoln was introducing me, he was the A&R for Terrence. And so he introduces me to him

at a club. And he goes, hey, Terrence, this is Michael Brower. He's going to be working on your record. And he goes, ah, so this is the guy who's going to fuck up my record? I looked at it. went, no, I'm not going to fuck up your record because I'm not doing it.

He goes, oh, nice. He goes, what? I go, why should I start now? If you think I'm going to fuck up your record, why should I even bother? Right? Because I've been down this road. I'm not going to waste my time. So see you.

And he goes, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, Lincoln's like, no, no, Michael, Michael, you know. I go, no, man, I'm not into this at all. He goes, oh, I'm just kidding. I'm like, really? Really? Are you kidding? This is some of my 21 jump street.

Right, right. You know, and he was just like, okay, all right, you know. I said, all right, well, well, think about it now. And that was, you know, and then eventually I did it. But I was like, man, if you're starting off on the wrong foot like that, it's not about an ego. It's like, I've been down this road. You know, and then you go, oh, I hope not.

I hope I don't screw up your record. No, I'm going to do a good job, you know. But in the 80s, wasn't everyone arrogant, Wasn't everyone in an asshole and wasn't everyone at Diva and wasn't... No. What? Damn, I just thought we started getting polite now. I thought back then you had to deal with cocaine on your soundboard.

Well, yeah, there was a lot of that, but they were usually too burned out to, you know, to be an asshole. So you ended up doing the hardline album, the introduced Tarynx Trent Darby's first album. Yeah, but just one. If you late me stay. Yeah. That was a voice I wanted to ask you about since we talked about. since we're talking about the 80s, not to bring her up with the Coke and stuff, but Angela Bofield, who is a voice that's not spoken about a lot,

I'm guessing you were to record it. What was that session? Did you track the entire Too Tough record? No. Just the song? Yeah. Okay. Mixed or tracked?

Just mixed. Oh, damn. Okay, because I wanted to ask about her as a person. Ah, that's what I was asking too. She's kind of, yeah. Saw the unsung. But the music was remarkable. Yeah.

So can I ask a question? Yes. So back in the times that we're talking about, which I guess is the 80s right now, a lot of the artists and presumably other people associated, like maybe label people, would show up to the mixed sessions and have input. Always. And can you talk about how that's changed nowadays for somebody like yourself? Well, now I have to plead. and don't even bother anymore to have the artists show up at the mix.

Are you serious? They never show up. It's now down to maybe 10%. It kind of went the way of analog tape. It's because you want them to hear it on good speakers because now we're judging from our computers and our iPhones. You know, it's just a different time.

I mean, it's just the way it is. Who was the last artist that was interested in their mixed process? I cannot see them not do it. Bon Jovi. He was there every day. I mean, to me, I'm always amazed when they don't want to show up. It's their album. But they're scheduled to a point where they've got their on tour or they're in rehearsal

or they're, you know, or they're not given the budget to fly over. So what, you're saying, Colplay and John Mayer, none of those guys. Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, I was what they were. But I'm just saying that the majority, you know, all the Coleplay records, you know, the guys individually would come in at first and then, but it was always down to Chris and myself on those records. Plus, a lot of these artists trust him where they don't need to be there the entire time.

And he sends them mixes and they approve them and so forth. Okay, they're not total dickheads. They're just, you're the man. And too, I think. Well, no, they just put their trust into the visionary there. And you have to learn how to let go. I mean, if you've been, by the time a song comes out to the audience, as an artist, you've heard that song a million times.

So once it's done and you send it to the mixing engineer, it's just like, look, take it away. And at this point, as an artist, do you really want to go back to you with revisions? Because you are who you are. That's got nothing to do. Who I am is that I'm going to be a good listener. Right. Your ears are good. Yeah, but it's my opinion.

You know, I'm interpreting it. And if it's nailing it exactly the way they want, then we're good. And if it isn't, then we do revisions until it's right. Okay, so I'm going to try to not rapid fire question, but just in general, because again, your discography is way too extensive to go through everything. So what three songs of yours that you've tracked and mixed just gives you absolute positive, like goosebumps. And I mean, filler hits, whatever. Like, just like I captured magic in a bottle.

And, well, these three represent me. I would say house is not a home, with Luther. Wait, side question. Was that, was it, was it track to a click track? Because I always wanted to know how he nailed the steel and love stealing loves without doing it live with his band no there was no and it was done before the strings came in he do you hear when he's holding that note and is like a little dip that's his heart rate that's his heart going you hear that little drop yeah yeah that was just him holding it that was

that was the take and he's just holding it and he's just holding it it and then everybody's watching him you know and that's watching and then downbeat and then when I think it was Leon that did the strings they were just you know they practiced it a few

times and then and so after they track the music he didn't come back like a week later and said I think now that vocal take just a little bit better none of those songs none of those vocals were

redone. Those were all from the rhythm tracks. That's crazy. You know, from the basics. Because he would also he would also he would do a tour of

radio stations and have the TV track of that stuff and actually sing live in the studio. I've heard like maybe four different versions of a house is not home various places across the United

and he nails all those gaps and pauses like yeah perfectly and i'm thinking like is he like okay 13 seconds here no it's just feel just 100% feel and what what we used to do a lot too is i was really into throwing a delay on his voice you know when he go whoa well i would do that when we were recording. And so he and I would just be playing back and forth. And he would never know when I'd throw a delay on it. But eventually as he's recording, you know, I'd throw a delay in and then he would answer the delay. So I was always printing the delay. But he would just, he and I would go back and forward. There was just this thing between him and I, you know. So, okay, something, okay, because in Bad Boy, it would do that. Yeah. That was all during the recording.

of the basics that I was doing that. Okay, okay. That's why there was that natural answer back and forth. I mean, you know, and I was very much part of starting that, and then that became part of the trademark, you know, when he was doing live, then the mixing engineer was doing all that stuff. But that was just fun between he and I would just try to surprise him. What are the other two?

Well, recording. So you have recording into mixing? Yeah, I mean, mixing. Mixing is, I would say with mixing it would be yellow for cold play. That was just, there was that really empty, lonely feel that turned out to really, I was able to get that just from the snare drum. The snare drum just created this ominous feel it. So did you mix and record parachutes? No, no, I just mix it.

Okay, got you. But to record, it's the recording and the music. mixing back then really the only it would be that it would be jump to it oh man jump jump jump jump to it

yeah and that was yogi yeah on drums probably using either you know one of two snares but um really

it was always either the well ardy smith was his drum tech the great arty the great or sometimes mine's drum tech too Yeah, and he would tune the drums and he had, you know, Yogi's drum set, but quite often, depending on the song, I had my two snares next to him, next to Yogi that he really liked. And depending on the song, we'd switch it out between my 800 and the, what was that snare, that percussion, that weird?

Yeah, it's a no name. On YouTube, he's using a Yamaha, but his signature snare that he's, that he's, that he's, you know, that he's, use on it's no I don't know what it is I assumed it was a Yamaha but it's not no it's some percussion come by can I ask why so deep with the snare tones

why it sounded good okay it's that simple you know it was just nice to have it real fat and then like as Lou there ever tracked the song with like a tight snare and you guys were like

no it doesn't work I don't think it ever occurred to him. I mean, he never brought it up. It would be between, you know, yogi would be the one that says, you know, tighten it up or loosen it up or I want this other snare. You know, yogi really directed all of that. But, you know, you'd get that low sound

and then you take the poltec, which is a EQ, and then you'd push 8,000 all the way up, and then you get that great, great edge, natural edge on the snare. So you'd still hear that crispy sound, but it was big and fat. What song do you wish you could recall and just do again that you're still not satisfied with? I don't. I never felt that way. Really?

Yep. When I was done, I was done. Most first singles are like the last song done. Like, I need one more song. And then that's the one. Time pressure or whatever. It's not to say that they couldn't have been better, but I just never. I just never thought that way.

I was like, we're done. Let it go. Move on. He doesn't want to say because somebody's going to ask for their money back. I just, I felt really good when I was done

and I'd walk away and say, okay, next. And if it needed to be recalled and it was better, I was like, wow, I didn't think of that. Who else do you like that mix engineers

do you admire? I've got a lot of fans. I love Manny. he's a good buddy of mine Tony yeah Merriquin and Tony

Maserati Spike you know when Bob Powers he used to be at at Sony and he was in one room and I was in the other

and I'd listen to his mix and like oh my God that sounds so good it would make me feel really like oh do I really want to go back and mix the song I'm doing you know he was just

had such a great, great feel. Yeah, I mean, those are the ones that clearly come to mind that I just love. And I got to know Manny through mixing John Mayer because we split up the album. And it was on the continuum record. And I'm listening to this other guy's mixes.

I'm like, wow, man, this feels, it sounds different, but it feels the way I feel a song. I got to get to know this guy who is he I mean I don't pay a lot of attention to who's out there and I'm just doing my work but it was it really stood out because it was one of the first times

where I'm sharing songs mixes with another person and they fit so well together it's great so how do you feel now the way that technology has completely changed from what it was 34 years 30 or 40 years ago when you first started

so now people pretty much can do everything on their laptop you know I'm fine with it as long as they call me to mix it no they're mixing on their laptop too yeah well I mean have you been in that situation where it changes they can do everything on their laptop and then when it comes down to the mix

it's like it could be better how do you feel about modern engineering now as far as like mixes are concerned like everything was better with the analog like you know streaming is killing it still comes down to the pilot you know you're going to have great engineers you're going to have really terrible engineers

and that's never changed even in analog days you got really really crappy tracks that you'd have to work extra hard and then you get other guys who are just incredible. And you just put the tracks up and he's like, mix is done. It's just fantastic. And as far as analog desks,

I mean, I'm moving away from an analog desk pretty soon. How do you feel about that? Oh, I can't. I've been mixing a lot of music on the hybrid. I'm still surrounded by analog. Everything is analog. You still have your outboard gear. Yeah, all my outboard gear is analog.

So the only thing I'm kind of switching out is the fader and the sound of that particular desk. But you've got great plug-ins where you can get the same sound. You know, if you're doing an SSL, you can get the SSL sign. If you've got a Neve, get the Neve sound. You just put that across the channels. And you, at least in my experience, you can't tell the difference between what I've done on the SSL-9,000 and in my hybrid. It's sharing all the analog gear. Okay.

So I'm, and you know, and it's easy now. It's a lot easier because, you know, when you're on an analog desk, you've got three and a half hours of stems of, you know, paths, excuse me, passes you've got to do. In a hybrid situation, you hit a button, you got a script that does it all automatically. So it's also way more efficient. What was the transition like when, like moving, I guess, I guess it's maybe like, late 90s, when the game started transitioning from analog to pro tools and two computers,

what was it like then? How did you make that switch? And was it difficult? It was, well, I still treated, when it went from analog to digital, the first thing I noticed is that there was a lack of tightness in the music now. And I didn't know why. I just thought, well, 24-track analog just must sound you know just sounds way better and and digital doesn't and it turned out to be that it's the clock the clock that that ties all these tracks together i didn't know this at all because i'm not at all technical but it you know it was years later when i realized how important this clock is to getting a sound and and again it's down to the engineer too if the engineer is recording great to digital. But digital had just a lot of artifacts that just didn't sound musical at

all. They felt like there was a ceiling to everything that I was doing. And of course, that's no longer the case. But it was sonically, it was rough. And I still used, I didn't know anything about Pro Tools. I would just use it as if it was a playback, you know. I didn't do anything. I had an assistant Well, I think it's still like that to this day. Shout out to Steve Bealey. That's right. Thank God. But, you know, and then in the beginning you had plug-ins, but the plug-ins, they looked like my hardware, but they didn't sound at all.

So I had no reason to use them because I had that gear. But eventually, you know, waves and UAD and soft tube and, you know, all these great companies started, you know, getting so good at emulating some of this gear that one day I put a poltec across something I was like wow this sounds just just like mine

and at that point use it you know for me I'm not I just want what sounds good so what's your opinion on soft tube versus waves I like big waves she likes she likes soft tubes

she likes hard tubes and yeah real hard Anyway. So the last 10 years approximately, you've been at Electrical 80. In the studio B. Eight years. Eight years.

Going on nine, I think. Okay. In Studio B, which is the legendary purple room with the Purple SSL 9,000 and Purple Wall. Great sounding. It was one of the first SSLs in New York City. And it got totally refurbished

and it just has a great, punch to it. Great sound. And now you're moving on to you're building your own place now. I'm having a place built for me, yes, which I'll be moving into next year. That's what should be excited?

What's that? Are you going to miss it? Electric lady. Oh, of course I'm going to miss electric lady. I'm going to miss everybody there. I'm going to miss Lee. You know, I'm going to miss the vibe. But, you know, I'm excited by this. It's another phase.

Answer me this. Have rats ever run in Studio B? Because Just mice, not rats. My last day. No. No. I still say that was a rat, not a mouse.

I've never seen mice and I've never seen ghosts. Okay. But my assistant has. There was a rat. He's been totally freaked out by a ghost. Of who? There's a ghost that. His name is Jimmy.

No, no. It's not Jimmy. It's some guy, I don't know, everybody describes him the same way. Some guy with a beard. In Electric Lady. At Electric Lady. Because when we were there,

Jimmy the Cat was Jimmy. Like, was that ghost? Jimmy the Cat is no longer with us. I should hope he did not have a beard, actually. Just a furry, just a furry overall. Yeah, maybe, I don't know. I've never seen him, so. But, you know, I'll look at Steve or other

assistants before him who just have this look on their face, they're not, they're not kidding. Somebody just walked by and they thought it was me and I'd already gone. What? Oh, yeah. I believe it's on it. The only thing that I've experienced is, is on one piece of gear, I've got two really big knobs on a shadow hill. and you'd have to literally

pause on that you'd have to literally fall into it sideways to turn the knob and I just left the room and I came back in and I played the mix and it's completely whacked it's like all left heavy

I go what just happened and I turn around and one knob is just like you know been moved almost all the way to the top and I looked at my sister and I go how did you bump in it? of this. He goes, I haven't even been near it.

I was like, whoa. I believe you 10,000%. I was like, okay. All right. Well, let me turn this knob back down. Jimmy ain't like whatever. Didn't the cat do that? The cat would jump on the console and turn on all the, the, the cat jumped on the console and actually clicked a button and

sounded twice as good as my mix. He jumped on the console and actually walked on the. the board and click something and then walked away and we all looked at each other like holy shit that i i believe that jimmy hendricks is still trapped in that studio somehow did you i want to ask did you do did you record and mix vivila vita the co-play album no just just mixed just mixed it just mixed most of the record too it wasn't i didn't do the whole record oh okay did you do strawberry swing yeah i love that song that was awesome great job on that I thought we were about to ask Joe Santorini questions.

Oh, about the lawsuit. I was in the Grammy audience the day that they won an award for that. And him and his lawyers were trying to chase them with the subpoena. So it was like watching, you remember those old Keystone cops. But literally, like, the cold play and their whole cat, their whole management team, like running down. the aisle and Joe and his lawyers are running the other way and they're like chasing each other trying to serve papers. Oh, you mean with Joe?

Yeah. You know, look, I've known these guys from the beginning. They were physically running. Yeah. That was just a hundred percent coincidence. I don't care what anybody say. I mean, you know, if you look at the prior record, it was it Soundcraft? where they copied, you know, they love this one little hook.

And they immediately called them and said, hey, you know, we're going to use, we're going to use your, you know, that line and here's your credit. And, I mean, this is, it's just, you know, unfortunately, it happens. Right. It's millions and millions of songs coming out. It's going to happen. And, you know, it's kind of like it. but regardless, it was not a conscious effort

because that's not who they are. If they're going to copy something, they're going to give that person credit and they're going to be very, very humble about it and write about it. That's my opinion on it. Knowing them. For coming on the show today in schooling us about sound and craft.

Thank you, Michael, for coming on. Thank you for the pleasure. Any other. Last minute. You guys look at his face like. Okay, Cole on the Parachutes album. Did you mix? You're a big Coldplay fan.

Yo, man. I'll take my joy. Man, politics. That whole first album, like, that was just, okay, did you mix the song, Parachutes? The one was just him and mixed the whole record, but one song, it was. Shiver? No, I mixed that. I love you, Fonte.

I think actually the first two songs I mixed for them was shiver. and yellow. Chiverin, which one? Yellow. Oh, man. Yellow, that was not right after day. You got damn hits. Okay.

Yeah, I love that record. Did you do clocks as well? No. You didn't mix clocks, okay. That was the shit. I wish I had. Okay. But did the X and Y record.

And then a good part of the Viva LaVita. Can I just say to the list? an audience, if you want to get a real quick headache, go down Michael's list of credits because... It's too much, man. It never stops. I didn't even ask any fishbone questions.

Damn. Oh, fishbone. Ah. All right. We're definitely going to have a part of you. What a great record that was. We're having a part of it. Which one? David Conn. In my surroundings.

David Conn produced it. Yeah. Okay. Line, real quick, the line between engineer and producer. Where does that begin? and in, and have you ever kind of gone more into the producer? Yeah, I did production for a couple of years.

Got that out of my system real quick. We won't talk about that. Who did you produce? Nobody you know. Tries. I went to England and I did some production. I did this one band Animal Nightlife and then Icicle works. Damn, it's time.

Oh, Rocheford. Oh, Andrew Rochford. Yeah. Yeah. Cudley Toy. I'd produce that. His first album, the second album? First record.

First album. Rochford and Andrew Jay. I don't have to explain. We can Google, you know. I was going to say that new Ron Andrew Rochford. But you know what I realized quickly as a producer, and I was pretty sure of it, and I confirmed it, is I'm not a songwriter.

I don't have a melody in my head that came from my own head, right? And to be a great producer, I think you really need to be. be a songwriter. And so I knew I'd always be limited or restricted to bands who were completely self-sufficient, which isn't really realistic. So after a couple years, I was like, the best I'm going to do is be average on this. And then I really just loved mixing. It's like, I don't want to do anything else but that. Did you mix magic by Coldplay? Did you make it? I'm thinking, look, man, I'm thinking, fuck y'all. I like cold play.

Did you make that record? Did you do that one off the ghost stories? No. You didn't mix that one. Did you do anything on that record? Uh-uh. Okay, you didn't do that one. Okay.

Yo, the unpaid bill. We're going to get Craig from Atlantic up here so we can just. Oh, yeah, Greg told me. Because he has a gazillion cold place story. Okay. Anything else? you worked on the Gwen Guthrie Patlock record?

Yes. That's when I worked with Sly and Robbie and I did at a compass point. Did you have any interaction? They produced that. I did not know that. Did you work with Larry LeVan on the mixes at all? No. I mixed that. I think it was with Sly and Robbie.

They came back. Yeah. Seventh heaven? Seven heaven? Yeah. With the infamous? Boom, boom, boom. Oh my God. Do you even know how iconic that one synth stab is at the top of that song.

Yeah. That's... Yeah, I mixed that in Studio A at Media Sound. Jesus. But I recorded that and it was, you know,

it was a trip being there. Because, you'd be on the beach and then around 12 o'clock, one o'clock, everybody show up at studio and start recording. I was going to say,

it's... I've got pictures of that, I'll show you. I don't think, like to be in that comfort zone I think that's bad luck it distracts everybody it might be relaxing

but it might be too relaxing I'd rather be uncomfortable and cold in a studio and focused than like yeah but the whole vibe was laid back there was a whole lot of smoke going on it was size of cigars

and not smoking so you know I get wait since it's Since it's rapid fire last minute questions. The BBQ man. Oh, yeah. On the beat. On the beat.

Did they just say like, look, we want to sound like chic or like what's, was there any connection? Well, like, was it the same guy from change was behind that? Well, hold on a second. Hold on a second. How that record was done is we went to Italy and we recorded 16 songs. We recorded 16 songs, the rhythm tracks on all of them, right? Then we came back to New York and he split it in two and called one change and the other one called BBQ and then put lead vocals, you know, at that point, Luther didn't sing on that.

He was, they, Fred Petrus had done something dumb. Probably didn't do. But the basics are identical because I recorded them all in one period of time. So you said that's the best Luther song, he never recorded. Well, he would have, except that Petra's didn't want to give him a royalty. So he said, well, I'm not going to sing on this record. Then we spent three weeks trying to find a singer that sounded like Luther. It was just everybody.

So you got everybody coming in there trying to sing like Luther. It was like, oh, my God. But we ended up with Crabs, Robinson, who ended up doing that. And then on BBQ, it was, you know, different singers and different backing vocals. And then maybe some of the overdubs, since overdubs were done, you know, by different people. But I just mixed, you know, I came back to New York and I mixed all 16. Did you do a BBQ? Did you do imagination, Starlit, like all those records?

Imagination, you mean haul of notes? No, no, no, a BBQ band. I did one, okay. I was just one, okay. The first one. Okay, we really got a wrap up, guys. All the notes. We got a whole of notes.

We got a haul of notes. Because you did private eyes, right? Did you mix that? No. You didn't mix private eyes? I mixed, no. I mixed some of the singles. I mixed one-on-one, no can do.

Those were remixes. Those were the ones that went to R&B radio. Oh, so the album version is different than the single that you meant. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I understand the 12-inch fatter drum version of I can't go for that. but I love just the tinty toy sound of the album version

I love it but I get it now so you were there to boost up the mix okay I see anything else ladies and Joe okay the code played my way below oh man

you're fired you said that like Marst Day on the graffiti we didn't ask by Morris Day oh I've worked on Morris Day Oh fuck you did come on I told you This will give you a day.

No. Oh, you did the oak tree. Oh, shit. Wait a minute now. Oh, man. Okay, you did everything. Only having boss bill, unpaid bill, and fantigolo, and Laiaaia and Sugar Steve. This Questlove signing up.

Michael, thank you very much for coming. We'll see you on the next go around. Questlove Supreme. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.