The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Michael McDonald

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

Legendary singer, songwriter and producer Michael McDonald talks about the lessons he learned with Steely Dan, his years with the Doobie Brothers and working with artists like Carly Simon, Aretha Franklin, Patti LaBelle and more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

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podcast network on TikTok. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, what is up? This is Quest Love Supreme Classic. I got

to say this is probably one of my favorite episodes of this entire podcast and I have a lot but what can you say about the genius of Michael McDonald we were not ready actually I think actually Fonte stills the show in this episode

with his total rendition of the Al Dunbar what's happening Doobie Brothers episode no more spoiler alerts let's just get into it from October 25th, 2017. This is the classic Michael McDonald episode, Questlove. Supreme. All right, that was my.

Subrema Roll call. It's Questlove. Yeah. A.k.a. Best Love. Yeah. I'm so chill, love. Yeah. Because I got real long.

Supreme. His name is Fonte. Yeah. You don't have to run for. Yeah. Because this show is getting bootleg. Yeah. By Al Bumble.

Yeah. Oh, McDonald Yeah We're here to meet them Yeah My name is sugar Yeah Shine sweet freedom

Oh my God Clear black night Yeah Clear white moon Yeah Boss Bill was on the streets Oh wait That was Warren G

Sorry Supreme Supreme I keep forgetting Roll It's that's me Yeah Does anybody have the time

Yeah That's all I gotta say Fonte, I knew you were going to do. Oh, what's happening reference? Hey, man. Oh, is that what that was? I was like, Al Dunbar. Hey, Al Dunbar.

Yo, okay, I'm going to be honest with all the Doobie Brother episode. Yes. I have to admit that I spent three hours in bed trying to think of the perfect rhyme scheme to reference. Al Dunbar. Like, for real. from like three in the morning to maybe like I dozed off at six. I had nothing, man. And I was like, I know Fonte is going to have a house.

Yeah, I was going to put a tape recorder in my pants and jump up and down and have it fall out. I was thinking of that too. I had an elaborate scheme where I was going to, you know, do that same thing. I didn't even remember that one. It ruled our lives. Oh, man. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is probably the most beloved figure in the recording industry.

I'll probably go as far as to say that he's probably in everyone's top three greatest blue-eyed sold singers of all time. I personally believe that he possesses possibly the most influential or most imitated vibrato tenor. Yes. And, you know, from his years as an honorary

Steely Danian and a member of the Doobie Brothers, not to mention his solo work. Michael McDonald is a pop culture god amongst mortal men. You know, and his brand stretches way beyond just singing and songwriting. I mean, he's damn near a lifestyle. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme, the god himself. The God. Michael McDonald.

Yes. Oh, my God. Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you. Are you thrown off? by the fan worship thrown at you today. Like, because I feel like anytime,

especially when I see you, I don't know if it's like you feel like it's a genuine appreciation for your work or is it like, is this the noriety ironic embracing of, you know, my work? Like, are you genuine or is it just coming from an ironic comedy level? Like, how do you, how do, how do you, you feel when people, especially

millennials, are coming to you? Well, you know, it's all flattering, really. I mean, you know, I always told my son when, you know, when your music is no more no longer relevant, your pathetic comic value might be. So, you know, so go with it, you know.

Just, you've got to take what you can get when you can get it. But I, I'm enjoying myself these days. You know, it's, we've been out there long enough doing this that no one's more amazed than me that we're still doing it at our age but it's still fun

I still love playing live and I love playing with you guys looking forward to it we enjoyed it too every time we did. I didn't know I know that one of the times that you

visited the show I know that you know you came with Donald Fagan and you know he was sort of like are they clowning us or are they actually respected

us and you know i was we were so throwing off because it's like yo he doesn't know that we like this is what we worship you know what i mean and it's not because i know about you know yacht rock culture and all those comedy bits on online and it could seem like it's from a jokey angle but i always wondered like what was your personal perspective and as far as like do you think it's just novelty or or or any of those things so you know i i i always enjoyed it and and i had fun that night but i i I did, I don't think the other guys enjoyed it as much as I did. So. Well, thank you, man. So you started out in St. Louis, right?

I did. I grew up in Ferguson, yeah. Wow. Crazy. Yikes. Can you talk about that? Because literally, my mother's born and raised in St. Louis. And I called her this morning because I was like, Mommy, did you know Michael McDonald's in St. Louis? And she was like, no. I said, well, this is interesting because y'all are around the same age.

Growing up in St. Louis, very polarized. Why is Ferguson maybe not be the Ferguson that we know today? No, that's right. You know, I mean, that's, you know, where the conversation is at this point today is exactly where it needs to be. You know, I mean, I think in the 60s, we all really believe that we were going to be the generation that didn't leave the burden on our next generation of racism in America, you know. And unfortunately, that hasn't proven to be true, you know. as much as we'd all like to think. I think we made great strides because I remember Ferguson in the late 50s.

Right. Talk about it because people. It's probably totally different. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, you know, it was apartheid is really what it was. Wow. I mean, nothing less, you know. When you, if you were black in America in a small town like Ferguson, and, you know, it was, you were not allowed to live in the mainstream.

You were ostracized from mainstream society, plain and simple. You couldn't walk into the Dairy Queen without causing a stir. You know what I mean? It was, and I remember as a kid, you know, that wasn't lost on me. I remember, you know, like laying awake at night. My two great fears were they were going to drop the bomb. And I remember thinking, you know, I could have been born black. It's like 50-50, you know.

And I just didn't understand why. the things were the way they were, you know, but, you know, even, you know, the fact, the reason I mentioned it is like that it wouldn't even be lost on a four-year-old kid or a five-year-old kid. You know, at the earliest ages, we look at our society around us in surprising ways, and we go, what does this all mean? Why is this this way? Why is it that way? And why don't adults do something about it?

Why don't adults make this right, you know? And so we start right there understanding that adults don't make things right, you know, that adults don't do the right thing, you know. And so that we spend the rest of our lives just kind of, you know, compromising with that, you know. You know, understanding it's not a perfect world, but, you know, and it's funny because, you know, for all the press that Ferguson has gotten, it's a great town. It's a better town than it was when I was a kid. I mean, in so many ways. I mean, I go back there a bit, quite a bit. You know, I don't live there anymore, but when I live there, it was post-war, and, you know, the downturn in the American economy was something people don't remember.

But after the war, it was like a lot of small towns like that kind of went into depression, you know. A lot of the mom and pop stores closed up. And Ferguson, you know, had suffered that like a lot of places until the suburbs took over, you know. shopping malls and stuff like that and that pretty much killed you know communities like Ferguson so I grew up in that period where you know you walked down Main Street to Ferguson there wasn't much going on you know today it's it's a it's you know a lot more of a economic upturn you know and so you know I think what we got to really do as a society is learn to have the conversation you know it's like what's going on right now with

the NFL and you know we got a unfortunately we have a guy at the helm who wants to stir it up and be divisive you know that's a shame because this is the perfect opportunity for the conversation we all need to be having you know those guys are embracing peaceful protest it may not be the uh venue you'd like to see it in if you're a football fan or whatever you know whatever your problem with it is and the whole idea that it's all about the flag and the flag is all about the military is is not true the flag the flag the is about freedom and that's what the conversation's about and these guys aren't risking they're not destroying my property they're not hurting anyone the only

thing they're putting at risk is their own livelihood and so I applaud their courage you know and I think it's a conversation that we got to have you know and it's going to be painful because growth is painful you know but it you know that's that's the great America that I think most of us are talking about you know America is getting great you know and it it can't continue to get great, but this isn't the time to fall asleep at the wheel or to turn back the hands of time to something that was not great. But it's fascinating since you grew up in such a divisive situation that you have, that you, like how did you get introduced to soul in that way?

Is it just that natural to you? Because like you said, Ferguson, black people and white people kind of separate in that way, like? Well, you know, it was, it was the, it was society in the 50s. You know, I mean, you know, so many of my friends are younger than me, and they don't really remember, you know, they don't really know. And black or white or, you know, African American or Caucasian or whatever they, you know, might be. Very few of them remember America the way it was, you know. And it wasn't great for a lot of people, you know. So it wasn't a footloose narrative where rock and roll came in and saved the town and that sort of thing. You know, it's funny.

The British invasion probably did more to bring awareness to mainstream radio listeners, white radio listeners, an awareness of real American music than American radio did at the time. Right. A lot of the artists, for instance, the Womack brothers, they had a top 10 hit on what would have been considered black radio at the time, which most white people didn't listen to, didn't know about, you know. And it was a song called It's All Over Now. When the Rolling Stones did it, it was a huge hit, you know, and Bobby Womack made the comment,

we were heartbroken until the checks started coming in. But still, that speaks like, you know, even Motown as popular as it was in mainstream radio, the British acts, the Beatles, probably had some of the biggest hits of Smokey Robinson songs, you know, because they reached a whole other audience and that was segregated in the United States at that time, you know.

So, you know. So even the jazz scene wasn't thriving at all? It was, it was, but that was, I think, a very, you know, that was kind of a, I don't want to say, elite sector of intellectual music listeners society. It wasn't mainstream. You know, jazz was not mainstream. It kind of was in the 50s. It was probably rock and roll kind of took over where jazz left off in the 50s because jazz was that kind of bold and a lot of people growing up in the 50s were drawn to that, you know, to the artistic boldness of jazz and, you know, and everything that was. But then in

rock and roll kind of took over the mainstream, you know. But, you know, as a kid, I remember the first time I heard records like Edwin Starr's Stopper on site. That was a record that sticks out in my mind. It was my sister and her friends were playing it, and they were blasting it over a car speaker. And I, up to that point, was pretty much aware of what I knew at my age group, which was all these English bands coming out, you know. Right.

But when I heard that record, it was like all of a sudden there was this sophistication to the rhythm track. The guitar was kind of tucked in and syncopated and, you know, more interesting in a lot of ways. It wasn't just broad strokes. Yeah, it had a certain kind of sophistication that I really appealed to me. And it was from that point on that I really started listening to artists that I had. had prior to that not really been that aware of, you know. Do you remember the first record that you ever purchased? Yeah, it was the Everly Brothers, wake up a little Susie.

Oh, wow. Me and a friend of mine pooled our money and went and bought the 45. How much were 45s back when you were growing up? Same as they are now, a buck. We're the one industry where the price has not gone up. What was on the, sorry, Quest. What was on the B side of that? On the B side, I don't remember.

It was that record in the Chipmunks Christmas song that was my two big first record. It's a great song. Sorry. No, no, well... I like B-Sides, sorry. I know. I was waiting for your jazz question.

No, I mean, I never thought of it that way that rock and roll took over where jazz left off in that sense. Yeah, I think in a cultural sense, jazz was that daring music... Taboo a little bit. ...genre that, you know, if you were really cool, you listen to jazz, you know. So was there a cool hip factor in St. Louis, a counterculture, if you will?

Yeah, it definitely took place around Gaslight Square in St. Louis, downtown St. Louis area, you know, somewhere between South. I'm not really sure where Gaslight Square was, to be honest with you. But I remember that's where my parents went to hear music, you know, and it was like there were jazz clubs. And then the tornado hit it. One of the big tornadoes came through. leveled the place and it never kind of recovered from that you know it would be like uh we're the

village in in the you know okay the hit part of town uh concert like were you attending concerts at all or like what was the first show you remember seeing uh let me think about that i remember going to see uh this thing called the alsac show it was a the big a m radio station in st louis kx okay and And they brought this show to town. It was like a charity event. And Wilson Pickett was one of the headliners. So up there was the Memphis Rhythm Section, Memphis Horns, the whole gang. And it was like just this powerful experience to hear those guys in Keel Auditorium.

And that was one of the... That shows. Another great show I saw there was the Bee Gees once. I was driving around and I saw their name on the marquee and a friend of mine and I went in The Australian version? Yeah, the BeeGs. That way were the Beatles?

And this is long before they were big resurgence. This was like, you know, 60s, you know. And we went in there and it was like the first two rows had people and nothing else. It was like there was no one knew that they, you know, and these guys came out and did this show as if a place was filled to the brim, you know, They just didn't, undaunted, they just put on this great show.

And I remember thinking, man, that's pretty cool. You know, I should, somehow I remembered that, you know. Wait, you casually walked by, saw the Bee Gees on the marquee and was like, hmm, let's see what? Yeah, yeah. How much were shows back then that you could just be like. Not much. It's probably about five bucks a piece.

We went in and saw these guys play, you know. It's crazy. Yeah. And at that point, had you start singing yet to yourself and the shot? Had you started singing yet? Yeah, I was in a band. In fact, me and this friend of mine were in a band together. And we were just driving around St. Louis, you know, doing pretty much nothing as usual.

I saw the on the marquee and hadn't heard a thing about it. So we just, you know, walked up and tickets were, the place was not even close to being sold out. But they did a great show. How did you start playing? Were you self-taught or did you take lessons? I'm just self-taught. You know, I started off playing tenor banjo for my dad who was saying he was a singer and sang in a lot of bars. Not so much professionally, but he sang, you know, and people kind of knew him as a singer.

You know, so when he walked in a saloon, everybody wanted him to sing. So I followed him around a lot as a kid, and I would play tenor banjo for him. And he would do, you know, old, like ragtime songs and Irish songs. Danny Boy was his big number. So I got the chance, the significance of that was I got to hear a lot of great piano players. The guys that he would go to visit who played piano in these bars. And it was amazing how talented they were. Looking back, especially, I realized that these were great musicians, you know.

But here they were in the corner bar in St. Louis playing Bill Bailey, won't you please come home for all these drunks? and they hated every minute of it. Anyone else in your family? Singers? Yeah, my sister's both sing, you know, and they both got nice voices. Yeah, sister, she's singing in background on.

I'll keep forgetting. Yeah, Maureen, that's Maureen. She still sings with me. My sister, Kathy, still sings with me. And, you know, once in a while, we'll do these shows around town, just like charity events and stuff, and the family will come out and sing for me.

What your dad said when he realized you had the voice? Because he knew the banjo. He said, get your high school equivalent he wasn't a big fan of the music I mean it wasn't that he wasn't but I don't think he saw it as a viable living you know and I don't think any parent until it becomes a viable yeah that's right

that no one was prouder that I was able to make a living in it you know but in hindsight did you always have the voice that we know is Michael McDonald probably not there's so much technique in it like who's teaching you or who you emulate and, you know, where'd you learn control and your vibrato and your tone? You know, a lot of my singing voice came from singing in bars, you know, because I had to

preserve it. I was going to say smoke or beer. It had to be bar. That too. Yeah, drinking and tobacco had something to do with it. I thought it was a good thing for a while until, you know. It was a great thing for us. But, no, early on, I realized that if I wanted to sing like James Brown and.

and some of the, you know, the shouters, you know, the great blues singers, I wouldn't have a voice very long if I, you know, like Mitch Ryder and all those singers that were famous for their screams, you know. So I developed a style where I could kind of sound like I was putting more into it than I really had to so I could sing five sets a night, you know. That's genius. five sets a night. Yeah, we did it.

I did a lot of that in L.A. We'd play like three, four, five sets a night and sometimes go after hours, you know, and go across town and play after hours clubs, you know. So what brought you to L.A. as far as... A record deal. Originally, I came out to do a record for RCA Records. Your own, not with the B. Yeah, it was my own.

I'm only hesitant to mention it for fear that someone might actually find it and listen to it. Oh, God. You got discovered in St. Louis? Yeah, I was actually in Champaign, Illinois, playing in a bar, and a producer, a guy who I'm, I know to this day, who was from, believe it or not, Champaign, Illinois, grew up on a farm there, went to L.A. and he was with the New Christy Minstrels. Remember the New Christian Mistrels? It was like a folk singing group, you know. and he if you watch that movie Mighty Wind that's pretty much that era so anyway he was in one of those groups

and he met his wife but anyway he wound up producing records for RCA records he produced the first Jefferson Airplane album Harry Nilsson Jose Feliciano you know had quite a run you know producing some great records and he heard me in a bar signed me up and I came out to California

And the good part of that story is he kept me alive by using me on sessions that I had no business being on. I was playing with these guys who were really A-list guys, and they had to put up with me because this guy wanted me to get paid. You were singing on these sessions. I was playing piano. I had even less business being on those sessions playing piano. On which sessions? Oh, you know, things like everything from David Kavanaugh. to Jack Jones to John Hartman, John Hartford,

you know, just things that he was producing at the time, some Jose Feliciano tracks maybe, but it gave me experience I would have never gotten otherwise, you know, and really where I learned, you know, how to play with other musicians on a whole other level, you know, in a much more professional capacity. And you're still just self-taught at this point. You're just kind of figuring out.

You know, I came from bar bands in St. Louis. It was like the first one to the bridge gets the solo. You know, it was like we were just rushing ahead, you know. Wow. Well, you know, as we are very curious on Questlove Supreme, we would like to play a bit of God knows by young Mike McDonald. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Exclused. This is going to be painful. And decide that you should go away. But I'd be feeling sad. And I know how only life would be. Come down a stage. Tom Jones meets the Partridge family. I dig it, girl.

How old were you on that recorded? 18, I believe. And you sounded like 40. Yeah, Colonel Lewis. Yeah, DJ Thomas is a little bit. I feel it. I feel it. No, it's not embarrassing about that, man.

It was great. Thank you. You're coming. so um while with in in l. in l.a are you interacting at all or how are you running into what will eventually be your peers of the mid 70s to mid 80s like the the piccaros the pages the rodgans yeah i you know that was i probably met those guys more on the club level doing casuals uh one of the first I ever remember meeting Jeff Bacarro.

I'm not even sure I met him that night. We were playing in a club in the Valley, San Fernando Valley, and his band came in and played, and they were all underage. They were all like junior high school age. And I'm trying to remember the name of the band. They were named after their street they lived on,

and it was all Grant High School kids freshman year. Jeff was this phenomenal drummer, and they were kind of a fusion band, you know. so it was interesting because every ending Jeff

kind of did a symbol solo for it ended each song with this you know kind of you know

but he was obviously really great and the next time I heard about him doing sessions after that and the next time

I met him we played a casual for a TV show that was a rap party for Universal Studios and And make a long story short, my girlfriend was the contractor on this show. She was a bass player at the time, Brandy.

Oh, I thought to say Carol Kay. I'm like, wait a minute. Yeah, no, no, no. But she left to go do a gig in Vegas, and she said, make sure you do this gig, and we get the band together, and will you do this gig for him? I said, sure. She goes, you're not going to leave it to the last minute, and have it be a complete, you know. disaster disaster i said no i promise i won't of course i did and you did right so at the last minute i

called a sax player friend of mine and he goes i know these cats they do sessions he goes but they love to play and uh they'll probably do it for free i said even better you know but i just i need somebody so we all showed up none of us knew each other we didn't rehearse we just played every top 40 song we could think of and then for the next three sets we played the same ones over again they were all Pretty drunk by then, nobody cared. And we, it was Jeff Baccaro, David Page, Mike Bacarle on bass. A monster. Yeah.

And the next time I talked to Jeff was like a year later, he called me through this same girl, Brandy. And he said, I'm looking for Mike. We're auditioning for Steely Dan. And I thought maybe he could play some keyboard and sing, you know, do some of the backgrounds. because they're looking to kind of keep the band small, you know. And so as soon as I heard, I threw my piano in my pinto, and I drove down to modern music and audition and, you know, miraculously got the job, you know. And wound up touring the world with those guys before they broke up, you know, which was...

Were you playing a woolitzer or... A little whirletzer, yeah. Okay. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep. That's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network, It's Will Farrell My dad gave me the best advice ever I went and had lunch with him one day And I was like

And dad I think I want to really give this a shot I don't know what that means But I just know the groundlings I'm working my way up through And I know it's a place that come Look for up and coming talent He said if it was based solely on talent I wouldn't worry about you

Which is really sweet Yeah He goes but there's so much luck involved And he's like Just give it a shot He goes but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on

a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. For those that don't know, and I always, just heard the legend of Steely Dan just being a studio group. Like, what was the initial meat and potatoes of the band? You came in during what, Katie lied or? Right. They hadn't started Katie Lie yet.

Pretzell Logic was the record they were touring on. They had just finished Pretzell Logic. So was there ever, besides Fagan and Becker, were there core members that were... Yeah, yeah. Well, the band at that time existed as... Steely Dan, Donald, Walter, Jimmy Hodder on drums, and Jeff Baccaro on drums. And Walter played bass. Denny Deas played guitar.

And Jeff Baxter played guitar. And myself playing some keyboards and singing backgrounds. Royce Jones played percussion and sang backgrounds. And Royce was another L.A. guy that played clubs. and, you know, a great singer and a great percussionist. But so we were, that was pretty much the core group, the whole group right there. How was it moving into their band? Because as a self-taught player, I mean, the stuff they're playing is pretty advanced.

Yeah, like, how did you figure all that stuff out? Well, Donald showed me, you know, what he wanted me to play pretty much, you know, which was basically backing him up on piano. with electric piano. And it was great. It was a real education for me, especially in songwriting, because all of a sudden I saw how he voiced these chords

and there was a simplicity to it that was ingenious. You know, that I kind of learned that a lot of times the harmonic vastness of their songs really came from the fact that the chords were very simple. kind of triads, you know, with not in unusual forms, you know, like one, two, five. Yeah, yeah, inverted. And a lot of times that's how the chords moved, you know, in that kind of symmetric pattern. But it really, it just opened my whole head up to composition, you know, pop songwriting, you know, for sure.

Yeah, but how, can you explain the phenomenon in Steve? Dealey Dan because it's, for me, maybe because I grew up 10 years later, you know, I see probably the figure that I see that came close to experimenting as far as he could and Stain Pop was Prince. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So what were the, what were Fagan and Becker's work habits as far as like, was their intention to make digestible pop music multi-layered

with this intricate jazz approach I mean and I know at least watching the documentary for like Asia how

how animal retentive they were like how as taskmasper Yeah like how what were their work habits like in the studio? It was you know nothing stood in the way

between them and the end game, you know, what they really were trying to go for. What I find most interesting about Steeley Dan, and I remember we toured with them not that long ago maybe but four or five years ago. And of course,

I would stick around every night and listen to their set. And they, every night, it would hit me. You know, these guys were the darlings of top 40 radio for like 10, 15 years. and their music is so weird.

It's so strange and it's so eclectic. How do they manage that? But I know as far as their work habits, like you mentioned, they were very insulated down in Walter. They seemed to be, to me, they would kind of go off somewhere unknown to anyone else and write these songs. And I know that just from my own experience

of being around them in rehearsal and stuff, that some of the influences they had were surprising to me, like Duke Ellington is a huge influence on those guys, you know, on their, on the makeup of their band and the, you know, the chord progressions they wrote, the way they, you know, the harmonic sense that they had with their songs was, they really, that sophistication that Steely Dan has kind of probably the most direct influence I can think of would be Duke Ellington and artists like that, you know, that were, that they somehow, kind of twisted into this pop format genre, you know. All right, so I'm just going to jump to it. Peg. How?

In this background? How? I feel like Pegg is probably on record. It's one of the most intricate, crafted background. Oh, you? trying to match it. Yeah, I was like, I was like,

Fonda, why you be listening to Michael McDonald? He's like, that's me. I said, no, no, no, no. That's not right. That's, this is me, this is my and my bad,

like, seeing in the band scene. There's a dedication to you. Like, yeah. How do? I think it sounds better than the last time we sang it. Well, that's what I was going to ask.

One, how do you, how do you, how do you guys recreate the stuff on stage? Well, there's a group of us, you know, singers. Are they as an overtensive on stage as?

Well, Donald kind of gives us the parts, you know, and like when I sang it in the studio, my biggest problem was I couldn't sing the harmonies listening to the last harmony I did because it was too close. So you would do it separate? Yeah, you know, if I were a little more schooled as a singer, I might have been able to pull that off. So I would just have them turn off the last part I sang. and then give me the new part, I'd sing it.

And then the first time I heard it all together was after I finished it. Wow. But live on stage, we would sing the parts. And we would, you know, you'd get your part in your head, and then you only have to be, you know, responsible for that one part. And with Donald, I always wanted to make sure

I sang it in tune and on time. So I sang most of those parts while staring at him across stage to see... But are there five other people also matching the notes? Well, the girls? And, yeah, it was me and the girls pretty much, you know, and Donald, you know. And was the touring unit not, it wasn't the same as the studio unit, correct? No, no, it was the Steeley Dan, as it has been in recent past with Catherine Russell and Carolyn Lainhart singing, two great, great singers, you know.

Wow. Yeah, kudos to that, because I still don't think you get a, enough credit for or respect for that. I mean, it just sounds so effortless that you take it for granted. No, it's, yeah, it's tough. Well, those guys, that was all there. He's always, you know, I came in late in these recordings. Typically, the tracks were done.

How, physically, how long did it take for you to do? You know, we typically, I don't think I ever did more than two tracks in a given session, usually, you know, and more, probably more often one, you know, that they were concentrating on for that day, you know. So you're saying you just literally breeze through Pegg in under a half hour? I wouldn't say I breathed through anything with those guys, you know. It was, you know, and there were some tracks I actually didn't, I wasn't able to do, you know, like I remember Dr. Wu, they had sent me that track in advance and said, you know,

we would like to hear your voice on this. And I love the song. And I wanted more than anything in the world to be able to do that track because I just particularly love that tune, you know. And I couldn't, I couldn't do it. You had to sing it all in one breath, and I smoked way too much at that point in my life to pull that off. So I was really disappointed, and of course, they never let me live it down.

But, you know, it was all in good fun. But, you know, there were times when I really was not the guy. So how do they, yeah, I know they're infamous for replacing like, okay, you're not going to nail it, get someone else. Yeah. How do they break that news to you without hurting your feelings? Usually, no, it was, you have to, you have to, you have to, you. take those guys, they always had a great sense of humor of those guys. And, you know, they would

be the first two that got fired. You know, they, they would fire themselves before they fired everyone else. Right. So, I mean, a lot of the tracking, Donald would have Michael, Marty, and play piano, or Victor Feldman, and Walter would have different bass players, you know, so. One standby in the break room, like, you know. Chuck Rainey. Oh, no, they just, they would just go ahead and hire other guys to do the parts that they, you know, would, you know, do live later, you know, just to get the track to feel the way they wanted it to feel, you know. Were you guys aware at the time that you were laying the blueprint for? And there's always debate on, you know, I see, I mean, I'm saying yacht rock now. Probably you hate the term yacht rock the same

way that I kind of scuffle with the word neosol. But, I mean, in hindsight, it's a very quick way to describe this sound of music. feel, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if it's like a California sound or whatever. And it's so weird because I know that critics, at least back then, like the guys that I interact with now who are music critics that are like kind of in their 60s now and 70s, I can tell, like they seem so not apologetic, but, you know, if we talk about second half of Chicago or Toto's music or whatever, like any, you know, they're always like, you know, they're always

like, I'm sorry. And I'm like, no, like, I love that shit. Like, like, I don't listen to NWA 100% of the time. I listen to everything else. But critic, were you guys sort of aware of critics sort of, well, I mean, they didn't dismiss Steely Dan as much. But I'm just saying, like, critics hold scoff notion of what L.A. soft rock was. you know yes and no i mean uh i uh i think we we got a lot of you know bad press a lot of the time

you know for initially and then you know if the record got popular then it was you know we always loved it yeah you know but uh but i think it's just that just kind of comes and that's kind of part of the deal you know um i don't know that we were any different than anyone else you know it's funny i was watching the eagles documentary and you know i thought every album they had was like this gigantic success, you know. Right. But according to the documentary, there were periods in records they did

where the record company was thinking of dropping them or, you know, or, you know, they went through their own trial and error and they wanted to be more of a rock band and it was like, oh, come on, this country band wants to be a rock band now, you know? Right. And they had to face all that same kind,

run that same kind of gauntlet with critics and record people. And so I think every band goes through that, you know. It's just what's going on in the inside compared to what people think going on from the outside. Well, speaking of which, since you brought it up, were you aware of any kind of light-ribbing rivalry

between the two camps, the Eagles, and Steely Dan? I know lyric-wise, they were throwing jabs. Yeah, yeah, no, I didn't really think that was true. I think that was a manufactured kind of a press thing. Because I don't know that it really ever was anything between, I think it was just a lyric in the song, if you know what I mean. Oh, okay. And kind of like when you,

Chuck Berry sang, I couldn't unfaster her safety belt. It was just a kind of a tip of the hat to the times we lived in. Right. Okay. And, you know, which by the way, I thought, I remember when he was a kid, we backed him up, and I thought, how clever is this, this guy, because safety bills had just come out that year. And here he is putting in the song already, you know. But I think the same thing with the Eagles, you know, the reference in that song was just,

you know, it's kind of life in today's world, you know. I'm sorry, what reference are we talking about? Turn down the Eagles of neighbors are listening, you know. I don't think it was really meant to be a slam at the Eagles. And I think they just kind of played off of it. Royal scam? Yeah, the Royal scam. Royal scam, yeah.

There's light lyrical references, which, if it were hip-hop, you know. Shots. It could have been. Yeah, shots would have been fired, yeah. So, obviously, Jeff Skunk pulls you. Can I assume that he, he puts you? pulled you into the dubies, yeah. And the dubies as you guys were working together on the Steely Dan.

Was he in Steely Dan during your period? Yes, he was. And we toured together. And then the Donald Walter disbanded the band, you know, in that period of time. And I felt kind of like Timothy Schmidt said, you know, I just got the best gig in my life and these assholes break up. Is this after gaucho? Was this after Asia? It was, excuse me, Katie, right after Katie Light.

Right before Katie Light, actually, yeah. Why did they break up? I don't know. I wouldn't speculate myself because it wasn't really a part of their world that I was privy to, if you know what I mean? I was just kind of for hire guy. Well, you mean the period between Asia? You joined the dubies in 77? Well, yes, no, 75.

It was when I, taking the streets. I think we did. Okay, that was 75. Yeah, so there was like four years between Galtrow was 80. So it was like royal scam and- So it was a long, so you're saying that period wasn't just a writer's block hiatus. It was like, we break up and then. Well, let's see, I mean, they were starting K.D. Lide by the time we got done touring, you know.

And so it wasn't too long after that, maybe six months later that I went in the studio with them for Katie Lyd and sang those backgrounds on bad sneakers and some other things. And then Royal Scam was the next record and then Gaucho, I believe. Asia and then Gaucho. So, you know, they were, they stayed fairly busy, you know, through that period, but they just no longer were Steeley-Dan as we all knew them originally, you know, as a band, but more as Walter and Donald. Okay.

Did you, I mean, why was, I'm trying to figure out why my question is, I'm sorry. Why wasn't it? I think the biggest, you know, and again, it's probably not my place to even say this, but one of the things I thought at the time was they no longer wanted to tour.

And the only real livelihood the other guys had since they weren't the riders was the touring they did. Right, okay. So they wanted to stay on the road, and I don't think Donald Walter wanted to be on the road anymore. They didn't really care for it.

And so, it just, it created a whole world that they didn't really care to be a part of. They wanted to be in the studio, and they wanted to be writing songs, you know? Oh, okay. So that was kind of a necessity for them to be able to pursue that more freely

to not have the band to, to consider, you know. Yeah, because there ain't going on but the rent. So how easy was the transition to the dubies? Surprisingly easy. Nothing I counted on.

I got the call from Jeff and I flew down to New Orleans and really it was only, ostensibly, I was just going to fill in for Tommy while he took up medical leave pretty much from the middle of this tour. And then as things progressed

and that tour came to a close, there was the, back then it was like the Dubies was one of those bands that they took very seriously an album a year, you know, and the label was really after them to get another record. And the way things worked out, it was kind of just, okay,

we were all kind of caught unprepared. I really didn't see myself as part of that part of the band, but I had made a demo with Tyran at his house. He had put together his home studio, and he said, you want to try recording something? I said, sure, I was just over his house for dinner. So we threw this song down of just something I had been in my head. And we recorded it, and I put the vocal down.

and we thought it sounded pretty good. He played it for Ted Templeman, and Ted said, you guys should cut this. This is kind of weird and different for the band. And it was a song called The Luzan End, which was like the last song on Earth, I thought the Doobie Brothers would ever do, you know. And that wound up being like the first track we cut

for the Taken to the Streets record. And then so I hurried up and finished a couple of songs that have just been living in my head. you know, one was taking it to the streets and keeps you running. And so the album kind of started to take shape. Pat had some songs, and Tommy was not really ready to come back to the group in that touring schedule and work. He was still pretty much on hiatus at the time. And his departure was such a gaping hole, as you can imagine, in the band.

He was such a driving force in the band the whole time. to this and remained that's even during the time I was with him a big part of our show was the songs he had written for the band you know so I mean you were kind of thrown into a position similar to Dennis Edwards having to be the new temptation or even James J.T. Taylor for cool and a gang um but as far as the songs that uh that he sang lead on like when you were first doing your touring with them. Like were you having to do listen to the music?

Yeah, like... Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, when I, the first gig I did with them, I flew to New Orleans. I got picked up by these two guys that I didn't know whether they were taking me to rehearsal or kill me, you know. And we rehearsed in this place

called the warehouse in New Orleans. And at the time, time in my life you know uh there was a lot of things going on with me i was playing clubs for a lot of years i probably was uh uh easy to say down on my luck so to speak you know financially and and i was you know uh living in a garage in burbank uh and uh i thought well you know when i got to meet all these guys uh i thought well this is the gig i've been waiting for it everybody drinks as much as i do and You know, and they kind of, it was a pretty rowdy bunch of guys, you know. But they seemed to have fun, and it was a good band.

But the thing that struck me, the first time we played, was I was just playing these songs in a bar, too nice before I came down here in Burbank or Pasadena, you know, because they were like the big, it was like Mustang Sally, listened to the music, long train running. You had to know those songs if you were going to play in any of the day. dance bars in L.A. area. So, and here I am on stage with these guys playing these songs. I thought that was kind of ironic, you know, but

and for that whole period of time, during the time I was with Steely Dan and the Dubies, I lived at two realities. You know, I'd come home and go back to work at the Trojan Club in Pasadena. Oh, wow. And then be ready to hit the road with Steely Dan and or the Doobie Brothers, you know.

So, wait, you were in two full-fledged bands and doing your regular club? Yeah, no, the dubies and Steely Dan, that was separate things. But during that period, when I was with Steely Dan and when I was, you know, one minute I was touring Europe with Steely Dan,

next minute I was back in Pasadena playing at the Trojan club. And then I got an audition to go to New Orleans to play with these guys. And I stayed with them. But during my time off, I went back to playing clubs again, just to stay in the circle of guys that I played around L.A. with, you know. How much were you making around that time? Yeah, I was going to say, could you make a viable living?

Like, were you like, oh, okay? Not really, no. I mean, back then, for a lot of reasons. One was we weren't that serious about our top 40 chops and our gig. You know, we didn't really, we weren't one of those bands that really made a living at it. We were guys that did it for the weekend to make a couple hundred bucks a piece, you know. and have some spending money. And we typically didn't rehearse.

We just kind of got together and, you know, a lot of the songs you can play. The drunker they got. Yeah, the better we sounded. And so, you know, it was that kind of existence in L.A. And then I looked to play and sing on whatever. I did a lot of background singing. So that was probably more of a living for me at the time, you know.

You know what? White Luther No, same story Because even, you know, Luther's tenure with Sheik And she can do it. Were you, did you cut your teeth on it, like the jingle circuit at all?

Not so much the jingles. I did a lot of sessions, though, with Luther Vandras, James Ingram, Philip Ingram. You know, we were the tip of the middle. Alameda. Yeah, yeah. Yikes.

And we did a lot of background singing for a lot of people. during that period of time. Well, I know back then, singing for publishing houses was a good living. I think that was more Nashville and New York. Really? Because L.A. was really typically more the... And there wasn't even a real viable demo scene.

Typically, people did their demos for free, you know. And it wasn't like Nashville where you can make a living just playing on demos for publishing companies, you know, because there's a lot of publishing companies there. but L.A., the publishing companies weren't, they weren't in the fray like they were in New York and in, you know, L.A., I mean, in Nashville. That wasn't that sector of the music business out there, you know. So you couldn't, my assumption is that, you know,

by 75, 76, when you're, like, deep into dubiedom, this wasn't like, Okay, I got a good job. I can make a living. After a while, I quit doing the other things, you know, I mean, and went off to just be a doobie brother, you know. But. Okay. But I just meant as a, do you still feel like a biscuit in any moment and I got a...

Oh, sure. I mean, I think we all do in a way. I mean, even now, do you feel like... Well, let's put it this way. I'm surprised I'm still doing this for a living as much as anyone else. I know that. You know, because, I mean... Your first yoke is always like, I'm still here.

Exactly, yeah. You'll wake up and go, oh, my God, you know. But, I mean, you know, and on the road, there'll be any number of times I'm sitting there going, you know, you're 65 years old, you know, what the hell are you doing out here, you know? And I can only gauge the sanity of it by... Am I still having fun? You know, I mean, because to me, it's still fun to play live more than almost anything else.

I think I enjoy playing live more than I enjoy recording. Oh, wow. So, okay. Now, I know you said this didn't mean anything to you and you forgot about this, end quote. Here we go. But what's happening? Oh, God. Yo, what's happening?

How many people, you can't, you can't make me believe that no black person in their, one, one would get that. But no black person in their 40s. to 50s doesn't mention that to you every day in your life. Oh, all the time, yeah. And I didn't mean to downplay the importance. That's a very vivid memory in my, you know, for us, it was Did you guys feel like it was an important move? Like,

oh, exposure. I don't think we had the sense to realize how important it was, you know. And we just did it as a lark, you know, and you know, we thought it would be fun. And our publicists kind of brought the idea to us and we thought, oh, yeah, you know, let's do that. You know, we were just... And it was a

two-part episode. Yeah. That was my first to be continuing. Why don't you, it was just the L. Dunbar part that I didn't remember. Why don't you break it down for the people that haven't seen that episode? Okay, yeah. So, okay, there was a comedy show based on the movie Cooley High

called What's Happening in the 70s. That featured Ernest, Ernest Thomas Jr. Haywood Nelson and Frayette Rund Berry, who was a prominent member of the Lockers. And Mabelene. Oh, okay, Mabel King. Maple King. Maple King.

Male King, Daniel Spencer. So it was a very popular, popular. I would dare say it was probably the Martin of the 70s. Well, Martin started and what's happening now. But that's funny. That's right. Yes, he did. Shit, Martin, yes, I forgot that.

Anyway, so, yeah, there was an episode, you got to explain Al Dunbar. Al Dunbar played by the late great Theodore Wilson. I thought his name was Sweet Lou or something like that. Like, didn't he have a sweet title? He was sweet. Oh, he was on good times. Same guy. He was one of those black actors like you saw in every black thing.

Yeah. So, like, he was, uh, he was, uh, he was, uh, he was sweet daddy. Sweet daddy, sweet daddy. Sweet daddy. On good time. Sweet daddy on good time. Thank you. He was sweet daddy.

Yes. Okay. So basically there's this show where the Doobie brothers are coming to perform at Rogers high school. And, you know, Raj, he writes for the paper. So he's covering the show. And so this, uh, this guy from the underworld, the skeevy guy, approaches rerun in Rob's place by the name of Al Dunbar and he's like hey yeah how

you like tickets for this concert and he's like uh what's the catch ha ain't no catch don't know what you just record this show for me and so and so he asked him to record this show on like this huge fucking tape recorder it's like whoever thought that this was going to work but anyway so he basically asked rerun to be like the first Napster and shit and bootleg The Doobie Brothers show. So he go up to the joint, and so they agreed to do it. You know, he put the stiff on him. He had his goon with him.

His goon was Bruno. I think he was Bruno. And the episode ends, he's like, oh, man, because they try not to do it. And so rerun is like, no, I want to do it. We could get in trouble. All right, all right, all right. Well, you're going to have to tell Mr. Bruno here that he's not going to get paid. Mr. Bruno, will you please pull up a chair and talk to us?

Certainly. it. And Mr. Bruno goes and pulls up a stool. And the joint ends and it's like to be continued. So then the joint opens up. And so like they actually talk with the doobies in episode two. They're talking before the show. And so like they're like, so what do you think is the biggest problem? I actually have biggest problems.

Probably bootlegging. And so they're talking to stuff. So anyway, the show goes on. It's great. Michael does. He does take it to the street. But wait, time out. They do.

At actual Duby Brothers concerts. Did you guys do that fire gong thing? Every, every, everybody has their, the night I almost set my house on fire movement. Yes. I might have gotten a Q-tip and a match. What? I know you're listening. Oh, my God.

Twice I play with matches. Yes, you were right. If I watched TV, it was influential. It was very good for you guys to not let me watch that much television. Yeah. When I saw the gong thing, I, I went in my, my, My basement on the drum and it was not good. Was that, did I actually do that in shows?

Man, I'm impressed. I can't tell you. Well, I don't remember really what we did on the show. He lit the gong on fire. Oh, really? It was on fire. He was my head was right now. And it was cutting to like D and rerun.

They were all like looking and stuff. And so then I think y'all did take it to the show. They played a like a high school in Compton though. Right. The high school. The Doobie brothers doing a rock show. Right. Everybody's excited.

Yeah, everyone's loving it. Dude. And so, because the album was living on the fault line. That was the album at the time. And they were talking about it. So anyway, so the crowd is going crazy. And Michael McDonnell is killing, taking to the streets. He's singing, just going in.

High sound, Fonte. You don't know me, but I love your brother. Y'all can see me? He was singing. He was singing. It was so strong. He was singing through his beard. was amazing.

So, Doc, so goddamn Michael with daughter singing that shit and goddamn re-run, get up and start jumping up and down

and the tape a corner falls out. And everybody, they did the smooth criminal lean. That's the first time I saw the smooth criminal lean

not done by Michael Jackson. And it's like, ah. So then at the end of the joint, they're sitting at the, I guess everybody left, they went back home to company. And so then they're sitting

and like the Duda brothers is like, yo man, that's fucked up. I thought you was our home. He was like, no, but you are our friends. But this guy told us he would hurt us? It wouldn't be a guy by the name of Al Dunbar, would it?

Yeah, it was Al Dunbar. So then they go back to Rob's place and they catch Al Dunbar and they play the tape and it's just rerun eating chips. That's your precious. That was your interpretation. I can hear you listening to this episode right now, being mad as though you're not here, to worship the storytelling.

telling stylings of Fonte. Thank you, Fonte. So, wait, that's not real life. At that time, in that time of year, there was never a Doobie Brothers show with a full black crowd. Like, we're black people embracing you got, because after that episode. After that episode, yeah.

Then I was like, oh, Doobie Brothers been. You know, yeah, I mean, it was funny. I found in my solo career, my, you know, my first couple records, that's how we got on the radio was. Back then it was more independently owned radio stations. And it was really R&B radio that picked up our singles like Keep Forgetting and Sweet Freedom First. And we kind of crossed over to like top 40 or what was it called then contemporary hit radio. But we really got our start on R&B radio, which back then you could walk into a small station that was owned by a guy

who was the program director who would sit and play your whole record with you. And, you know, you sit and play your whole album to an audience and talk about it. And, you know, that's unheard of today because of all the syndicated kind of radio things that people just can't do that anymore, at least not much.

Eye heart ain't having it. Yeah. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits.

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom.

My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down,

it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, so let's jump to 1978. Can you please explain to us? what was you on when you wrote What a Fool Belief? It's one of the most notable, memorable, confusing lyric, word structures

I've ever heard. I still don't know what the song means. It's cool, Keith. He sees. The wise man has the power to reason. No, I know the hook. I'm just talking about the narrative. Sure, sure, sure.

Well, you know, I think the idea was a guy living in his own head believing that he left this great love affair that he needs to retrieve and that it must have been the same for her and in fact it meant absolutely nothing to her

and so you couldn't just write you're on my mind all the time you're on my mind right right I don't think we'd be talking about the song now if you had it before But yeah, you know, the funny thing about that song was,

I had that riff in the verse riff for easily a year or two. And I'd take sometimes a year to write a song, you know. But every time I'd play it for Ted Temple, and he's, you know, he said, what do you guys, got any new stuff, you know? So I'd play that little piano riff, and I had just a couple lyrics in the verse. And he goes, God, you've got to finish that. He goes, I'm telling you, that's a hit. I just feel it and I go, well, yeah, I'm going to finish it.

Of course, never did. And I was getting together with Kenny Loggins for the first time, and he came down to my house. And my sister was cleaning the house because she wanted to meet Kenny Loggins, mostly. And I was at the piano kind of thinking of things I might play for him. So I was playing stuff for her. You know, I said, going, what do you think of this? I was thinking of playing this for Kenny.

And she goes, yeah, that's great. You know, she's, you know, picking up my, you know, my dirty clothes on the floor and all that, you know, and not really paying much attention to me. And the doorbell rings, and sure enough, it was Kenny. And the first thing he says to me, he goes, what were you just playing? I was playing her that riff. And I said, oh, it's just something I was thinking about playing for you. He goes, that's what I want to work on first.

Wow. That was the first song we wrote together. So what was the kind of division of labor for that record? in terms of you did music, he did lyrics. No, we both, we both wrote, I think both, you know. From that point on, we came up with the bridge or B section and then the chorus together, you know, and the rest of the words, because I literally only had the little verse feeling, you know.

It's just kind of the tempo of the song and the chords and the verse, you know. Again, are you, it's so intelligent. Like, were you, I know no one starts thinking, like, okay, this is our bull's eye moment. This is going to happen. At any point, did you guys think, maybe we should dumb this down just slightly because, I mean, the bridge,

the post bridge. Yeah. I mean, it's very steely Dan. Well, I was going to say, at that time, that was really the top 40 music was. You know, I mean, everybody was trying to harmonize in a new and a different way and bring something.

You know, it was a, It was after that it got to be where, well, we got to pull this back and make it more primitive and rock and roll and all that. The 80s, it was like, you know, all these court changes are, you know, that's, you know, not hip or cool anymore. But at the time that we did it, it was Steely Dan, James Taylor, artists like that who had very, you know, James Taylor, as much as he was kind of a kind of came from that. singer-songwriter tradition almost folk he his influences as it is from a jazz perspective are very evident you know and a lot of his songs and so he you know he brought a lot of and that was the era too where albums artists tried to do a lot of different styles of music on one record like if you listen to like the old

oh you know records you know that well I think Ray Charles started that where you kind of step outside your own genre and do music. Right. It isn't necessarily relate. A little bit of country. A little bit of... Yeah. And where James Taylor was great at that, he would do an R&B song.

He would do a song with marimbas, you know. And the next song would be a very kind of guitar, vocal, focus kind of thing and beautiful lyrics. And so he never shied away from any style of music that he thought he could be sincere. And a lot of artists were like that during that time. seemed to be what had come out of the 60s was artists exploring other genres of music other than maybe the genre they started out in. So we were just kind of doing what was kind of being done at the time. You know, we didn't really think of ourselves as anything too different, you know.

So when you're sitting in the audience at the Shrine Artatorium, and 1979 was, like, that was, highly notable for so many so much heavy hitting going on as far as the nominations were concerned in at the Grammys you're going up I think you don't bring me flowers the gambler I will survive and after the love is going right what was your what was the feeling and you're like when they called your name for a record of the year and song of the year. You guys won all five major awards except for an album, I believe.

Yeah, it was amazing. Like, did you expect it? No, I don't think you could expect. Because that was underdogish. Yeah, you just, yeah, you feel, I felt like, what are the chances of the first record of this nature

that I had anything to do with actually winning a Grammy? But we were, we were fairly taken back by the whole idea that we were going to win not just a Grammy, but a couple. You know, it was amazing.

And I remember, I mean, not to be corny, but my grandmother was in the audience that night. She had come to the Grammys. She was a date. Yeah, and I remember thinking, I was so grateful she was still with us and that she was able to be here for this, you know.

That's what's up. But, you know, it was just kind of amazing. It was kind of surreal, really. you know, it was, it wasn't until I drove home that night. I remember they had sent a car for me, and I just kind of had the guy drive up and down Pacific Coast Highway a couple times so I could kind of come down from the whole experience before I had to go home and go into my house all alone and be by myself with this, you know.

That's funny, Pacific Coast Highway. Okay, that is one of the greatest. I'm glad to know I'm not the only human being that doesn't ride Pacifico sideway just to ride it to relax. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, okay, good, there's other people. So when one step closer comes out,

why did it implode? And was there pressure to like... Lots, yeah, I felt my personal pressure, really, that, you know, well, God, now, this record, you know, that whole thing of it, this next record is really important, you know, is I've learned that that was never true, but at the time, you know,

you buy into it and you think it's like the most important thing in the world and it's just really not all that important. But, uh, and whatever it is, you'll survive it, but you don't know that at the time. And I remember feeling a lot of pressure and, and I think the band felt a lot of pressure to kind of come up with something, uh, else again and something new and maybe something even different from the records we had done up to that moment, you know. Um, and, and, you know, I think at that point in time, it was maybe kind of marked the beginning of the end of my tenure with the Dubies, although I still play with the guys,

and I still look forward to playing with them every chance I get. You know, great friends with them to this day, and I really think as a Doobie Brother, all of us who ever had any affiliation with the band, it's kind of like once a Doobie Brother, you're always a Duby Brother somewhere in your heart and mind, you know. So was the breakup amicable, or, like, Yeah, it was.

It was amicable. And we were like any other band, you know, we had our moments. You know, we threw furniture at each other. Yeah, that's where I want you to.

Yeah, like, as the new guy, how can you, you're the new guy, but you're now the definitive voice of the group, almost.

And bringing in hits. More, yeah, more definitive than what came before. So it's like, how much power, were you still the rookie that had to carry all the back

the team's jock straps? Or was it like, um, you know, we love you and then like you know well what about me i've been here since 1971 like no it was that dynamic like no it was never you know because i think uh internally within the band you know uh i think all of us still looked at you know at that point in time pat was kind of the senior member you know and and kind of the guy everyone looked to to kind of keep the band together you know

uh in fact it was when he left the band that uh we showed up for a rehearsal and I don't think and we all kind of looked across the stage each other like what are we doing here because without Pat it's really just not the Doobie Brothers anymore. Pat left after minute by minute. It was after the live album we did. Oh, the Farewell Tour. The Farewell Tour, yeah. And it just didn't seem like there was any reason for us to go out and try to be the Doobie Brothers anymore.

You know, and I think it was unanimous, you know, really, you know. So even when you did, it takes a minute, your, your, first solo record with it? If that's what it takes. If that's what it takes, I'm sorry. Oh, before we, before we go there, is it true that Michael Jackson

is singing backgrounds a minute by minute? No. Was that a joke? No, he said it and I didn't know that was real enough. No, you know,

it actually was a joke that the whole tape, I've heard the whole conversation. People kind of edited it down to to him just telling, I think it was Elizabeth Taylor, I think, that he was talking to.

But he was just pulling her change. and then later on he tells her that he was kidding, you know. Oh, okay. But actually, you know what? Speaking of which, you guys have the same publicist as the Jackson's. That's right. David Guest. So there's a photo of, I don't know what party it was.

I don't know if it was a Doobie's Grammy party or something, but it's some sort of like after-party thing. And the caption says that you guys did. a long train running, shake your body down to the ground. Like mass up? Mass up. Because I see, I believe, it's Michael and Randy on stage with you guys. Tito, yeah. It was the Jackson's, and it was at the Friars Club in L.A.

It was a benefit show. And I forget what the charity was. It was a Jackson family charity. Oh, is their thing? Yeah, and we just kind of came as guests. And we did. We did long train running and shake your body down to the rut temper. Has this ever been?

Does anyone have a bootleg of this or a recording? You know what? I think there is somewhere out there in the world where I wouldn't be able to tell you. I love this. Yeah, I mean, how do you, were you guys big into archiving any? Great, I'm asking you guys. Were you into collecting your shows like? No, but you know, people over the years would send us stuff like that.

And once I had a big photo album of all those different photos of the... But no one has a Super 8 in the studio as you're doing like, open your eyes and none of that stuff? No, uh-uh. Ah, damn. No, we just, we hadn't, you know, we didn't have that consciousness yet, you know. But I think the Dubies actually have a lot of Super 8 movies from early Dubies years, you know, on the plane and touring and stuff like that, you know.

So with your solo career? how scary was that too? Probably the most scary thing I've ever done. It was for some reason, and I'm not sure why. I just, because there was a part of my life when I thought I'm going to go out to California, I'm going to be a recording artist, and I had that idea in my head, but somehow coming full circle as a member of bands,

and then all of a sudden being kind of, I felt like, I was walking the plank, you know, to be a solo artist. Sink or swim. Yeah. But, and it took me a few shows to kind of find my comfort zone. That first tour was pretty scary, and I had a great band, you know, Edgar Winter, Robin Ford playing guitar. You know, it was an amazing band.

Willie Weeks played bass with me, and I couldn't have done better as far as a band's concerned. Brian Mann played keyboards. But I just had no. concept of how to act up there. But it wasn't, so you used to being the side front man. Yeah, you know, I could sing a couple songs in night. And then someone else does all the work.

Spotlight would shift over there. So was Sweet Freedom like your first music video? Because in your face, when I watched that video sometimes I was like, oh, he really might not be comfortable in that situation. You know, I wasn't. You're jumping. Did I jump? Sorry, I just was asking.

I didn't, okay, that wasn't the first video. The first one was, I keep forgetting. getting it we did a music video and it was uh it was yeah awkward you know it was it was it was not that was not my forte it was his don't look any further yeah yeah on uh you you you came on soul train to promote it and probably the best thing about it was the heavy weight you had with you i mean you have lewis johnson and but that's lewis actually lewis johnson he's based on the record too yeah and and jeff pecaro and and Greg Philling Gaines.

Greg Filling's. Like you had the cats with you, but I mean, we're worshipping like, you have the gods with you, but back then it was just like, oh, who do we get? Let's get a... Well, you know, I was lucky to be able to get those guys for sure. And it was my two

sisters singing backgrounds. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I would say that on a good day, you could get those guys to come and play on TV with you, but, you know, it just so happened that everybody was available. And so That song in particular

I was reading It started off as a Lieber and Stoller It was Wait, you're kind of jumping the gun Because we're about to play a round of Bitch you guess So Mike McDonald

I need you to tell me What are your thoughts of hearing the song I know what is it What are your thoughts? Chuck Jackson So I found this Oh Forgetting that you don't want me no more

I keep forgetting that you're Yeah So I found this 45 in Japan Like 15 years ago But it came out in 1974 What, how

Well, it's an interesting story And who was that? Okay, that was Long John Baldry who worked with Chuck Jackson. Chuck Jackson did the original, yeah. Yeah. It was a Lieber Stoller song. And believe it or not, unbeknownst to me at the time,

it was one of those things where we were kind of playing my writing partner said, you know, there's this, because he had somehow, you know, mentioned the song or something, and I was kind of just playing the piano riffing, and he goes, what's that? I go, well, that's what you were just saying. And he goes, no, no, no.

He goes, that's totally different. And so we wrote the song, you know. I was immediately reminded by other people that, you know, that's closer than you think, you know. Right. So, you know, we got in contact with Mike Stuller and Jerry Lieber, and we realized that we had infringed on their copyright, you know. And they were gracious enough to give us some credit.

it for this version of the song. It's kind of weird that you technically wrote a song with the guys that like, that's a real building classic. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was not, you know, I mean, I don't mean to say this, like, because, you know, I knew better. I should, the minute I heard this guy say, oh, no, that's not, I realized, you know, I better listen to that song before I were making it, you know, but I didn't, you know, and I just, you know, we recorded it, our version of it anyway. And

And right away, one of the guys that Warner Brothers said, one of the producers of Warner said, he gave me his tape. He goes, listen to this, you know. And I said, oh, well, you know, yeah. For you at least. Yeah. Well, I realized that we needed to, you know, get their permission. And, you know, and they, like I said, they were nice enough to give us their permission

to release it and put it out. But, you know, and credit where credits do, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that, song ours would not have existed but for their original song you know so let's jump wait who's credited officially officially for the writing of that song sorry who's officially credited for the writing of that it's uh mike stoller jerry leber myself and ed sanford for for our version of it yeah yeah uh the original version was a leber stoller song so 12 years later the song comes back to haunt you uh yeah in the most the most gangster rap narrative of all time. But using this as a backdrop with Warren G's G-Funk,

what were your initial feelings or, you know, were the text, not were the text nice, but, you know, did you have, were you hesitant to clear it? No, you know, but back then what I, what I remember, remember was, typically somebody would give you, you know, 10 grand and it was theirs, you know. I mean, it wasn't like the deals that are made today where, you get publishing, you know, like now it's, it's a, yeah, it was a one-off? Yeah, yeah, it was just like, you know, well, you know, we want to sample this.

What will it cost us? Wait, that wasn't a one-off though, right? Not that song, not the orange-g song, that wasn't a one-off. Yeah, but. All right there, I was going to chiching you. but instead it's the version my kids like you know

so yeah but yeah but then it expressed I'm sure there was renewed interest in hearing it live all of a sudden

yeah you know it's funny was it baffling to you or yeah it was it had a certain impact on on the art record

so many people think that's the version of the song that you know as it exists you know I'm not even sure my own kids didn't think that, you know, because they hadn't really heard my version. They weren't even born yet, you know, so, yeah.

Have you ever performed it with Warren G once that someone comes by the idea? Has he? Wait, what? Has he ever did. God, that has to happen. The Tonight Show, Warren G. Michael McDonald. Especially for Nate Dog. I'm going to make it.

Oh, damn. And he has to sing Nate Dawes fun. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get hit that, Michael? You heard that, you know, the Nate Dog part. I thought just saw those guys on some TV or a documentary of some kind. Wow, man.

Was that the first time a hip-hop artist asked you for the rights? I believe it was, and we've had quite a few things sampled since then. Minute by Minute was sampled. Thanks, that was hard. It's not straight. Wait, oh God, the intro A minute by minute. It throws me off every time.

Yeah, I'm tired. It's much simpler than the sounds. I know, but like, every time I hear it, I'm still like, wait a minute, wait. Where's the one? Is this the one? Is it one? It hits you right there. So, yeah, there's no regrets of it at all.

No, no. You know, like all things. Well, it's kind of like the Rolling Stones with used to love her. It's all over now. You know, you know, I'm, you know, at first they were going, oh, you know, we just have our first top 10 record and these guys scoop us, you know, and then he said, but then when the checks started rolling in, I wouldn't, didn't feel so bad about it.

You weren't mad anymore. Yeah. How did you get into working with, for Carly Simon, for like, you belong to me? Carly, I played on some, we played, the Dubies actually played some tracks on her, the album before that. We, we, we, uh, she used us to play on, um. a song that she had recorded, and I can't remember what it was now, but we played, we were the rhythm section. And it was, and upon meeting her during those sessions, Ted said, you know, you guys should write together.

And so the first chance I got, I had a little thing on cassette, you know, which was, you belong to me in the chord progression. And I sent her the cassette. but she wrote a lyric and sent the lyric back written out on paper, which I wish I still had, you know. And I had given her enough melody just kind of mumbling, you know, on the tape that she kind of wrote to that melody and that cadence. And we never spoke the entire time we wrote the song together. What?

It wasn't until like five years later she had a number one hit with it. or you know at top five record with it wasn't your version first though in the original version was first but it was never a single

for us but it was kind of a popular album cut but right so about five years later she had a hit with it and I thought well you know

geez I should call her and say congratulations or something you know and I saw I called her on the phone we kind of laughed about the fact

that we hadn't spoken about this for the last so many years you cut your backgrounds on it away from her I didn't sing on that record. Oh, you're not on her. On the Norfolk version. Yeah, no. Just the Dubies record is the one I sang and did the

background song. And I forget, she did that record in New York. That's you singing backgrounds on Rye Like the Wind with Christopher. Yeah, that's you. Christopher Cross. How did that come about? I love that record. Actually, it was like we're like a day like today, we'd be sitting in the studio and Dubies, you know, in Studio A at Amigo and Christopher Cross. Ross was, his first album was being cut in the studio next door. And the producer was Michael O'Marty. And he came over and said, hey, would you, if you get a minute after you guys are done, would you come over and sing a background part for me?

And I said, sure. And just kind of went over. How did you feel about the SCTV sketch? Which I'm happy to say, we recreated that sketch on the Tonight Show, where we literally had him run into the studio. making it to the keyboard just in time to say, just a long way to go.

Just like the SCTV sketch. What's SAT TV? Second City. Yeah, second city. Yeah, second city TV. Oh, sketch comedy. Okay. Yeah, kind of the S&L of,

was it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And the bit was based on the fact that every time his part comes up, such a long way to go, that he would literally like do plane trains in an automobile, like on a plane, on a train,

running at the speed of sound. Come to a long way to go. Just to literally get to the microphone in time for such a little man to go. And then run away and then, you know, do it every time. But we, when we had Christopher Cross on the show, we didn't announce to the audience that Michael McDonald was there. We just had an empty keyboard. Oh, wow. And as soon as Christopher.

No, Keith was playing, wasn't he? Huh? Wasn't Keith playing it at first? Oh! You're right. You're right. Keep McPhee. Shout out of Keith McPhee.

Yeah. And so right when the bridge came in, Michael, Winkley, McDonald just ran in, bumped Keith off, and such a long man to do. I'm stuck that you have Michael McDonald and Christopher Cross. Like I got a YouTube. You know, the funny thing about that SCTV bit for me was I had just left a friend of mine's room in one of the other band members. We were on the road and we had just smoked this joint and I was really stoned, you know, stoned, you know, more than usual kind of thing.

And I remember sitting there thinking, I got to go lay down, you know, and I was just kind of felt like whatever this stuff was, it was, you know, ungodly. Got any of it right now? No, I don't. Not for years, but this was back in the day. But anyway, I left and I kind of got my key in my door, and I'm thinking, man, I'm not really with it. And as I walked in, I always used to leave my TV on. And that skit was in progress on the TV.

And I walked in, I'm going, I know that guy. How meta is that? How meta is that? And it took me a second, I thought, I think I'm really having a psychotic breakdown here. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than, I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a

shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Wait, how nerdy are we to not even mention weed at all to a doobie brother? To a ad duby brother. In this 90-minute interview.

I didn't want to, and I think Steve was scared because it was just obvious. I was going to, because you talk about it, well, I read a... The number one growing industry in the United States, I guess. Yeah, I was reading about your new record, which I really liked. I was taking it on the way over here. And I was, I mean, I listened to it one time, and I was like, okay, I mean, it sounds like Mike McDonald's. And I read an interview you were talking about how a lot of the songs are kind of about your sobriety. Yeah.

And that just made me hear it in a different way. How long have you been sober? It's been 31 years. Wow. Yeah, and it was a good idea for me of all the people I know. And that's sober from all? Yeah, everything. No drinking, no smoking, no nothing.

Wow. Sober doby, brother. I needed to do that. But, yeah, it's the best thing I ever, decision I ever made. I mean, obviously, I don't think I would be here, to be quite honest. That became increasingly more obvious to me, time went on and I realized that I didn't have that much further to go down that road, you know. Did that...

So there were low points? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A good swath of low point, you know. But, you know, I'm one of the lucky ones, you know. That's the moral of that story. Is he here to talk about it? Yeah, and there's not, you know, the odds, you know, with sobriety apparently aren't that good, but it's, you know, there is a solution out there for people who,

who need it. And God willing, you know, you find that, you know, because for me, the alternative would have been the bad alternative, you know. What was your solution? How were you able to stay sober for so long? Just one day at a time, you know, I just really surrendering to the truth of it, you know. I think the big, the great obsession for most people who are addicted is that I got this. I can handle it. I can fix this. I can. I can. And it's, unfortunately, for most of us who suffer from addiction, there's not enough willpower in the universe that we could muster to fix it once we're there. And so there are solutions that come in the form of a community of people who are, you know, are, you know, are suffering from the same disease. And that's, you know, I can't really, you know, speak beyond that because I'm not authority on it, you know, but I can say that that's what I would suggest to anyone is to find people in sobriety that can share their experience, strength, and hope with you, you know.

Have you found that being sober has it helped you preserve your voice? Because you sound great on this new record. No, I, that's, you know, that would have probably died first, but I would have. have been shortly thereafter, you know. No, it's, you know, most everything worthwhile in my life today is a direct result of sobriety for me. Probably none of it is anything I would have put on that list if you had given it to me saying, well, if you were able to, you know, stop using, what would you be hoping for? You know, I, most of what is most important to me today are things I would have never

even thought of, you know, just the simple things, the simple aspects of my life that just wouldn't have existed, you know, I would have never got to that, you know, part. Okay. We're going to wind up the show, but there's still like... We got to talk 40-0 version. There's 40-0... Five-sixths. Well, you worked with the great Rod Timberton.

Oh, yes. A little sweet for you. What was that like? Like... He's one of the figures of music. Yeah, yeah. One of the best R&B writers that I know, you know, Heatwave was one of the best groups, you know, that I can think of. With a book of songs that I, you know, sometimes when you play with a band and then you realize just how many songs they actually had.

That's happened to me many times, you know. We played with AWB, we played with the Heat Wave a couple of gigs, and it's like song after song, and you go, oh, my God, I forgot. And Steeley Dan also, or the Dubies, I almost forget how many, how deep their songbook is, you know. And Heatway was like that. That was one of those groups where there were so many songs, they were a British group, you know, with these classic R&B songs, you know, that I thought were just American records. Right. I had no idea they were records made in London, you know. British can do Americans better than America.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Rod was a great writer, a great producer, you know. Speaking of you not being in the room at the same time, I heard you also say that when you did on my own with Pat and LaBelle. Y'all had to be in the same room. No. That you guys were in. No, no, no, she was talking to you.

You didn't even meet during. No, I hadn't even met yet. Even the video. I sang to her voice. No, I hadn't met her. The Tonight Show, right? We performed that song for the first time the day after we met on the Tonight Show. Yeah.

What about Ever Chaining Time? Ever change times? Aretha was not there when I sang to her voice. It was Bert and Carol, the producer. Oh, boy. But I put him. He did the original for an exchange. I did perform it with her, though, at the Grammys.

I love that song. Are any you motherfuckers going to talk about Yamo be there? We will. I was not to ask him what it was like performing with Aretha, but... Okay. All right, fine. Yeah, I got to actually do the video with her. Yes.

Yeah. Talk about that the both of the videos, the Patty and the Aretha. He wasn't in the room where they're there. Oh, you weren't in the room on my own. I did shoot the video with Aretha in Detroit. But not with Patty. Not with Patty. She was doing a play in New York.

Your arms too short to Box with God. They couldn't do the video together. The song was called On My Own. Right. Poodoo. All right. So, yeah, y'all will be there. The battle of the

Yeah. The Battle of the Tender for brittos. Well, wait, I'm actually more impressive that you name drop James' brother Philip than anything because he's one of my favorite singers. Oh, great thing. You have a switch, yeah. Yeah, but.

With the process, he had the big. Yeah, he was in there. But, like, did Rod also do that as well? Yamo, yeah. Rod was one of the writers on Yamo B either. That made a, that song made a big impression on my Christian household. That was, yeah, it made a very big impression, especially, you know, the division of secular and, you know, the local radio station in Philly, WZD, used to play that a lot. They would play Yamavita?

Yes, they would. Was it your intention to make a gospel song or? Pretty much. I mean, yeah. And we, it's funny because that was probably the third song we wrote that Quincy kept, you know, going, yeah, go back to the... Rejection? You guys need to go back and write something better, you know. And so we kept trying, you know, and James and I spent a lot of time in my studio just kind of writing at the...

Did you fully flesh out the other two songs that didn't make it? We made demos on them. Did they wind up being anything? No, no. I was still saying it was a party animal? No, no. It was one song. I can't remember the time.

It was like better man. Actually, we liked it. We thought this is going to, Quincy's going to love this. And it was like, eh. Damn. But Yammo was the song that he caught his ear, you know. And we were just, you know, like I said,

spent countless hours just sitting there. We had a good time, you know, right? Because he and I, it was always a good hang, you know, with James, you know. For those of us not familiar with what the hell of Yamo be there means. Explain it. No, no, I'm asking.

But it was your question. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Yombo Bera is kind of in reference to God will be there. You know, it's like that that's the answer, you know. So Yahweh. Yahweh.

Yeah. But why Mo? Yeah. Ja, Wah, Yahweh. This is enlightening. I feel like Mo is one of those Michael McDonald words. Moo. Because is this easy to.

Okay, do you get tired of people imitating you in front of your face? I think that was the first. You know, it's, uh, have you ever met Anita Baker? Like, has she? Yeah, sure, sure. And Patty Austin, too. Express their, their fandom for you. But yeah, no, you know, it's, uh, I feel.

feel like Ed Sullivan, you know, everybody's a really big shoe. You know, man. Really. Really. Yeah. But do they do it at inconvenient moments, like, when you're, like, trying to sleep in the, on the airplane and, you know, I just want to tell you. Things like that.

Or some guy will stagger out of a bar and grab me on the street. Start singing the song to see you today. You don't know. You don't know. We did that once the baby face, and I was highly irritated. Hey, man. It had to go down. No, seriously, I have a, no, for real.

I have a band, I have a band called the Foreign Exchange. And we're seriously considering doing a night. where we perform our songs in your voice and call ourselves the four McDonald's. Yes. I'm here for that. And like all of us come out with beards. Even the girls.

Like we all, even the girls. It's scary, but I'm poor. Was there a moment when you realize, because I know we always talk about like blue eyes soul and whatnot, but was there a moment when you realize like I'm in an elite type club of I can go here there, do the air and everywhere when it comes to, you know, soul music and pop music and whatever

else you chose to do, but at least you know, like, you know, it's very few singers that have like the black community in their pocket. Yeah. You're like, we want to steal you away. We'll take you in the trade. You know, we're inviting to the barbecue.

You know, it's, you know, for me, to me, it's, it's that, that truly American music you know and I don't know that there really is any other

besides jazz you know any other really truly American music you know it's funny how so much of our culture is for the problems that this country seems to suffer from

in terms of racial tensions and it always reminds me the conversations my wife and I have when she says you know we haven't talked in months and, you know, I'm worried about us, you know. And I say something brilliant like, well, you know, you know I have to go cut the grass right now. So why are you saying?

You think I want to go cut the grass? You know? Think I feel like cutting grass? You know, and it's like that's how we talk to each other in this society, you know, rather than, because we don't, it's uncomfortable and we don't want to talk about it, you know. When really, that would solve everything, you know, if we really truly just talked about it. But there are a few that can lead a conversation like you can because like I said, you are loved by everybody. Well, you know, thank you. That's very sweet of you to say.

You know, you'd have to talk to my wife on that one. I'm sure that's true. But, you know, it's for me, I've often thought, you know, how much of our culture in food and fashion, certainly music and any real form of art in this country is it's, it's a lot. largely African-American influenced, you know. That is one of the biggest influences on American culture there is, you know, more than anything. You know, if you think of French food, you categorize it automatically as French food or Italian food. You know, when you think of what is largely African-American influence food, it's American. It's barbecue.

It's, you know, it's funny. They just forget the root. You're right. You're right. You know, I mean, we accept it as totally as American, you know. hopefully in our lifetime, we will see a country where we understand who we are. And we go forward. Michael McDonald.

The Reverend Michael McDonald. So simple. So deep. Who's your 40-year-old version? Then we got to stop the episode. Yeah, no. Oh, no. Just how was that?

Because they were like making fun of you in the movie. But it was, I mean, it was funny, but did that kind of? You were heavily part of that movie. Yeah. No, no, it was. It was great fun. My friend actually worked on the movie. that film is he was the music guy on that film and he would send me uh like dailies or whatever scripts

you know and rewrites and he go is this okay and some of the stuff they they didn't put in it it was hilarious but brutal but hilarious you know and uh and so in the end it was really like the the nicer version of all of it but it was i thought was hilarious you know and of course you know again my kids always enjoyed that you know they enjoyed rubbing my nose and anything like that you know the family guy, whatever. Okay, this is, all right, this is my last question. I know you go. Okay, what were your thoughts on Michael Bolton?

Because I thought he was kind of trying to, I thought he was kind of trying to steal your swag a little bit. Shats fight. No, no, I'll love Michael Bolt, whatever, but it's only one mic. Yeah, he can get the love for Musta. He can get that love Mike. We recognize. Oh, I need is one mic.

So, what were your thoughts? Because Bolton does want to do this show. Yo, I think he should do it. I would love to have it more. I think he's great. I mean, the first. You never shoot the Isley brothers. The first time I did a gig with Michael Bolton was a local thing in Santa Barbara

and Kenny was Kenny's charity that we would all do. And Kenny Loggins said to me, he goes, this cat is serious. You know, he is a, he sings like we wish we could sing. What? Wow. And I'm from the school of Ray, but who are you? No, I mean, he's, he's, he's channeling. He's trying to channel Ray.

Who? Is there anyone that you're trying to channel? Like, the closest I could think of is maybe Sarah Vaughan, like, who? You know, I... Because you do have an original voice that I can't trace the Genesis to. Yeah, right, right. Well, thanks. You know, for me, really, it's just...

I try to do the best with what I got. You know what I mean? That's really what it comes down to. I've never really had the confidence as a singer, per se, as far as chops. and technique. You know, what? You say that. Like, you know, like,

you know, Michael McDonald. Let's get them a Thundercat question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I mean, seriously, I, I, uh, and as I get older, especially, I think, you know, you gotta kind of follow your voice with the years, you know, you kind of, you know, what's the, what's my strength at this point, you know,

and you kind of, uh, kind of go with that. I, uh, but all those singers that you mentioned are all part of my, psyche, you know, growing up. And, you know, I think when the Motown record was presented to me, my first thought was, why are they asking me to do this? You know? They came to you to do the coverage, not the other way. But I remember the next thought was, you better say yes, you'll be sorry. And secondly, I thought, you know, I have sung these songs in bars for so many years, doing my best to emulate Marvin Gay or David Ruffin or whoever. trying to kind of, you know, grab the spirit of their vocal, you know, because that was the

whole thing about being a bar band, if you could sound like the record, you know. So growing up doing that, I thought I should be able to kind of bring something to this project that, uh, just reliving my own experiences of first learning those songs and learning to sing them when I was, you know, much younger, you know. Oh, man, before we, uh, before a Thundercat, I can't Grizzly Bear. Yeah. Why you wait for the others? Well, you've done, yeah, you've done a lot with...

I love that record. I went to hear those guys play here in Manhattan and it was amazing. They were a really interesting band, you know, had an incredible following, you know. And it wasn't, I had already done the record with them and I really wasn't that aware of their overall sound. But the Shane of them live, I was really impressed. What made you do the record being that you weren't that familiar with him? Like what makes Michael McDonald say yes to a record? Yes to a record.

The song, they had approached me through management, and when they played the song for me, it just appealed to me that it had a, you know, a musicality about it that I wanted to be a part of, you know, and I wanted to kind of lend myself to, if possible. And the fact that it was singing backgrounds, where I might have shied away from it as a piano player or something, you know, figuring out,

I wouldn't know what to play or whatever, but as a vocalist, they had pretty much spelled out what they wanted me to do and so i i was as kind of curious as they were about how i would sound on it you know so were you thrown off with thundercat's call no that was one pairing that nobody's all coming yeah no uh that was Kenny i have to give Kenny credit on that because uh both he and my kids are huge fans of steves you know and uh they they love thundercat and uh when he did that interview and he mentioned Kenny and I, Kenny's son called

him and said, you know, Dad, you know, Thundercat mentioned you in an interview as an influence and Kenny got right on that and, you know, contacted. So as long as an artist has an animal name and sounds cool. Yeah, yeah. You don't know nothing. Here's the rare Thundercats.

They're the next thing. Man-eye. My daughter is my great source of what's going on today. She plays me. You know, we take car trips and she went to Coachella with me when I played with Thunder Cat. And it was a whole weekend of listening to music with her, which I love. I really enjoy, you know. You made her life, I'm sure.

Oh, she kept me up late, too, that we were there until the wee hours and, you know. Both you and Kenny's kids in bands? I'm sorry. Both of you and Kenny's kids in bands? Well, his son was a singer. My son's in a band, and my daughter doesn't do it. She's got a beautiful voice, but she doesn't want to sing professionally, you know. But she loves music.

She's a big music fan. you told me that because I thought that we were just going to have to explain who we were like okay so we're a band from Philly and da-da-da-da-da and you're like yeah I know you guys oh yeah I know we were throwing off but through her I've actually become more increasingly aware of what's going on around me but that's awesome I I'd ski Mendo okay so yam will be there me got the I get it I got the yeah I got the yeah part this is it be there part this is it be there part Who is Mo? One of the Pep Boys. Mo Austin. That's the perfect end of the show. Michael McDonald, we thank you for coming.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for having. This is Dream come true. Thank you, man, for real. Shout out to my sister Dawn for put me on to Michael McDonald. She would kill me if I didn't mention that fact of the world. That's how I discovered you.

Anyway, on behalf of Boss Bill, unpaid Bill, Von Tiggleo, Sugar Steve. and it's Laia and the great Michael McDonald. This is Questlove. Signing off to you next go. Thank you.

Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio,

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