The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Pat Metheny

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

This week's Questlove Supreme guest is considered a total flex for this show. To quote our leader, "He is the only man who has won Grammys in 10 categories!!!" Pat Metheny is truly one of the most adventurous and creative talents in music, in any genre he chooses. Listen as Quest and Team Supreme dive into a life of limitless improvisation and wait until you hear where he thinks music should go next! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players

flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12

and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. Hi, this is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. It's April, which is jazz, month, so we are running some selections from the QLS archives from artists who make some jazz music. This is a 2021 conversation with none other than Pat Mathini. He is the only artist to win Grammys in 10 different categories, and he's got 20 of them. This interview explores Pat's many facets of music and his incredible career accomplishments

from one of the greatest guitarists in all of music, let alone jazz. Please enjoy this QLS classic. and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove. We have the entire team Supreme with us right now. There is, Steve. Hi, everybody. Hello. How are you doing? Hi, Pat Mathini. Oh, my God. Amen. I know. This is awesome for Steve. It's awesome for all of us. Unpaid Bill. What's up, bro? Man, I feel the same way, Pat Matisse. I don't know what to do right now. I'm going to try to keep it cool. All right. Skip the formalities. Fonticillo. How are What up?

What I'm good, man. Down 38. We wading in, you know what I'm saying? Do you weigh in every day? Hell, no, that's chaos. I only way in once a month. I'm sorry, once a week. I weigh it every Monday.

So every Monday I weigh in and then immediately after I weigh in, that's when I have, you know, whatever I want to eat just have to weigh in, you know what I mean? So. Word, okay. Because they give me the rest of the week to work it off, you know what I'm. Accountability, I feel you. Integrity and Calability. I'm right there with you.

Laia, how are you? I'm good and I'm negative. COVID negative as of yesterday. I just wanted it. Word up. Yeah. What you had like a bug or something? Huh? Well, you were, you had like a bug or something?

No, I'm trying to get out of town, you know. But I know what I am right now. You know what I mean? I had a major bug last week. I thought it was a rap, y'all. It's not going around, man. I had the flu, but it was major. Anyway.

Hey, guys, Pat Mathini's here. Yo, I forgot that. Anyway. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today his reputation speaks for itself. First of all, we have to start with the mind-blowing factoid

that our guest today is the only musician to win Grammys in 10 categories. I didn't even know there was such a thing. We got to make a collaborative record so you can get a hip-hop one. You probably have one already.

I'm sorry. Not to mention, this being his almost fifth decade in the professional recording business, his grand total was 20. He's absolutely one of the most adventurous, dependable, expansive, creatives, and guitarist in music, even without a guitar, the way that his brain thinks. He is a self-reclaimed professional improviser, which is very impressive to me because to deal with the pressure of having to live up to the moment of your expectation.

and audience expectations. That's a lot for me to weigh in. So I definitely want to get on that. That's, you know, so much I can say, but, you know, let's just get to it. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the great Pat Matheny. Yes. Questlove support. Thanks, man. What a treat for me to be here. And thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate it. Well, we thank you for coming. We're also complimenting you on your, on your, your, your, your, your awesome quaff that you've maintained.

Yes. Coming from you, that means a lot, man. Feathered, yeah, feathered and still. I just need one of them picks like you. That's all you got to say. That's all you got to say. You know, it's weird because I know oftentimes,

sort of outsiders tend to pigeonhole musicians in a particular category. And oftentimes, more than not, it's not necessarily. sort of an apt description. I mean, you know, to call you a jazz musician, I think is rather limiting because, you know, you've done so much more. I always wanted to know, but the thing is, I'm very familiar with your catalog, but not familiar with your story or your journey. What would you necessarily call your brand of music?

Because you've literally done everything but the kitchen sink when it comes to, you, you know, emulating sounds or producing sounds from your studio into the record stores into our ears. What would you call your genre of music? Yeah, that's a question that comes up a lot. I'm sure for you too, for most musicians, you know, it's often an issue. I mean, you know, for me, I wish we had a better name for stuff, you know, or that we didn't have to have names. To me, whenever we start going down the thing of, you know, and yeah, you're right, I get it all the time. Like, you know, what is, what is this? It's usually, for me, it's usually a

political discussion or a cultural discussion or a dress code discussion more than a music discussion. And, you know, I feel like there are a couple musicians in that generation that sort of is just above me that sort of were, of course, heroes for me, but also kind of defined a new way of being as a musician. And I'll just throw out some names. I mean, Herbie is one. Chick-Korea would be an incredible example of this. Keith Jarrett, Gary Burton.

And by that, I mean, it's a bunch of musicians who could play written music with the New York Philharmonic one night. and probably not get fired and actually be invited back with, you know, kudos all around. And could play the next night with, you know, James Brown or something, you know, I mean, or could play with, you know, a folk singer. I mean, kind of like a little bit what you guys have to do, you know, on the show, too. But, I mean, for me, when I think about. that generation of musicians, and there were a few significant people before them, train Charlie

Parker, Art Tatum, all come to mind. It's people who really advanced what was possible on their instruments beyond any description that you might want to impose on it on a political level or a cultural level, just strictly in terms of what can you do as a human being with an instrument in your hand. you know that to me is clearly the model and um you know i mean the j word i don't know anybody that likes that really and um you know then there's all these other ones i mean man there was the the fusion the f word came along about about 10 years into my thing and i was like where did that one come from i mean you know when when i first you know started making records and stuff that was the era of hyphens. You know, there was jazz rock, jazz folk, folk, this, you know, did it, you know, and in a way,

that was a little bit descriptive of something. But, I mean, man, by the time I came along, I was actually a reactionary to, you know, distortion and backbeats and stuff. I mean, I was already kind of like, you know, you know, kind of looking for something past the Mahavish thing, as much as I love that, that was really more closely connected to like Tony Williams or something like that. And, you know, so it's hard to come up with a name. So here's what happens. I mean, a direct answer your question. I'm sitting next to a person on a plane who says, well, what kind of music do you play?

And I kind of look at them and I go, well, you know, this person seems like if I say jazz, they're going to know what I'm talking about or they're not. or, you know, it's like it's a case-by-case thing. But, man, I mean, I kind of would do anything to have to, to avoid having to do that. But, of course, you know, we do live in a world, especially now where, you know, this whole issue of stratification of our entire personal lifestyles or something that everybody's curating their entire existence in very specific ways. We're all in the mercy of the algorithm. Yeah, my thing of trying to open it up, you know, further is actually in direct opposition to the culture of the moment.

I see. Yeah, I was going to say, well, okay, I do want to start to how you came to music, but since you already went there, I have to know, okay, because you were born in a certain time period and knowing that, you know, albums like in a silent way or Bittes Brew, even on the corner. Or, I mean, we can even talk about like the, the, the, the, the, the experimental phase of Coltrane during his last period. You're 12, 13, 14, 15 at the time, which I know, based on other musicians I know of,

that that's a very, that's an extremely, uh, impressionable and influential time in a musician's life where they take everything in and don't throw it away. Whereas I would guess if you were older, if you were in your 20s during that time period, you might have an eyebrow raised with what the fuck is Miles Davis doing right now. But can you describe what it was to grow up, at least with your young ears? Assuming that your, your palate was changing by 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. could you describe the what it was like to witness kind of first generation those experimental movements in jazz at such a young age like how did you take to it was there someone to slap your hand like that's not music or had they done that it would have made me like it even more which was

kind of the kind of where I was at but right okay um no it's funny it's it's really Interesting that you're mentioning that. Kind of coincidentally, in the past month or so, a really fantastic writer in the Kansas city area where I am from wrote a book kind of, I mean, it's ostensibly about me from 1964 to 1972, the years that I, you know, kind of was on the Kansas City scene. Right. And, man, she brought back all. kinds of stuff and there's all these people talking about that era and man it just took me right

back there because generally speaking i don't look back too much i'm if you come to my house you were talking about grammies and you wouldn't see one thing man door stops every day how many how many have broken every day i started zero you know i don't want to see anything about how the gig was last night i want to like whatever but today it's new and so i I don't like to have anything around. I don't like to think too much about kind of, you know, whatever from in the past. But this book just took me right back to exactly what you're talking about. And, you know, I'm talking about Kansas City, but in fact, I grew up in a rural town about 20, 30 miles away from Kansas City where, I mean, man, no one had any idea what I was interested in at all.

and nor did I really have any frame of reference for it. So, I mean, I realize now my way of quantifying things was, oh, it's on a record. So the record could be the Beach Boys. It could be Ornette Coleman. It could be John Phillipsusa. It could be Porter Wagner and Dolly Parton. All I knew is I could take it down in the basement and play it on my parents' recently retired record player. and actually I only had a very few records.

And one of the records that really made an impact on me was a record my brother brought home four and more. That was it. Miles record. It was the quintet when George Coleman was in it. And it's sort of all the uptempo stuff from the My Funny Valentine live concert. And I mean, you know, I do hear the rap often of people saying, well, you know, you got to develop a taste for that kind of music and this, that, and the other thing.

Man, for me, it was like somebody switched on the lights. And it was mostly Tony, to tell you the tree, it was that, to me, the sound of that. Yeah, the sound of the ride symbol was to me, like, that was what was about to happen in the world. And it was, actually. And, Tony had a really, like, heavy, it was almost, like, I would describe it as his, his approach to, his ride symbol was violent but very beautiful just the amount of tone that the fact that he can get so much tone out of one symbol hitting in various ways like yeah that that always and also he you know it was just this constantly changing like set of of grooves it wasn't it was you know the next of course

i had no reference of any of that either nor did i understand that they were playing on a blues or they were playing on the form of there is no greater love. All I knew is what it sounded like and mostly what it felt like to me. And at the same time, you know, I picked up a guitar a year or two before that because like me and a billion other people in the world, I saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show. So the guitar itself was this sort of iconic thing as much as it was an instrument. And in reference to my general nature, the one thing my parents didn't want me to ever do was play electric guitar. So, I mean, you know, there you go.

It's like, you know, it's kind of I joke around. Like an electric guitar was like a four-letter word similar to like Dylan grabbing electric guitar in 65? Oh, way more than that. I mean, you know, way more than that. I mean, it was like, you know, it was more like, mom and dad, I think I'm going to join the devil worshiping. down the street here. So it wasn't a matter of like, we just want a less, a not-noisy instrument in the house. It was more like what that guitar represented.

Exactly. Yeah. And they were musicians, though, right? Well, they were kind of musicians. I mean, actually, they were very musical. My dad especially was a really good trumpet player. And I have a very important figure in my life. It's my older brother, Mike, five years older than me, incredible trumpet player at a very

young age. And I started playing trumpet too when I was eight. And hence the Miles Davis record. You know, trumpet was a thing kind of in our family. Like, you know, not any particular kind of trumpet, just trumpet. And, you know, we would go see Doc Severnson, who was, you know, come out the Midwest and do concerts, or Clark Terry, more about the trumpet part of it. And so, so yeah, guitar was this other thing. And once again, they were right. I mean, man, what happened in the few years after 1964, 65, 66 with people with guitars strapped around their necks was their worst fear come to life by 10,000 percent, you know. What's weird in my case, though, is that that Miles' moment put me on this whole other direction. And this is more in response to your question.

I didn't think about like, oh, Ornette is really some wacky, far out thing that people were getting into fist fights in front of the bandstand about. And West Montgomery, oh, he's commercial because he's playing going out of my head. And, you know, I just had no, first of all, no interest in that, in that aspect of it. I was just like, man, what are they playing? And how are they playing that? And what do I need to know in order to understand this? Like, what is this? And did you, you know, did you understand at an early age that maybe jazz was sort of like an intellectual music or an intellectual game?

Like, did you choose jazz because, like, all of your other friends are trying to learn smoke on the water riff? And you're like, well, I'm learning West Montgomery. Like, I mean, you know, again, I have to say where I would, where I grew up, man, I mean, yeah, I was, I was completely non-aligned with any person my own age. You know, I just had nothing to do with anybody, nor was I particularly interested what anybody thought about anything, because I was really involved. You were really a loner? I think most people that are going to deal with this language at some point along the way, they had to spend four or five years, 12 hours a day alone. It's sort of like, you know, I want to give a speech in, you know, Greek to a bunch of nuclear physicists, you know.

First of all, I have to learn Greek and then I got to learn about nuclear physics. You know, I mean, it's not something that's going to happen overnight. You know, the benefit for me, though, was the Kansas City thing, where I just happened to kind of chronologically come along at a time where at a very young age, I was able to start working with people who were a lot better than me. And, I mean, I don't know about you, but that's the way you learn is to be in, you know, I always tell people, try to be the worst person in every band you're in or at least be around musicians who you're going to learn some stuff from because that's how it works, you know. You got to be the least knowledgeable person in your circle. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what y'all saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that

don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same proliferation. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar,

this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist.

And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game. and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

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So by the time you got in your first band, what was your knowledge? And where were you? Well, I mean, you know, I did have my year or so of, you know, kind of messing around with, you know, kind of, I guess we could say rock bands or whatever. but you know I immediately took it very seriously to the point of concern I would say of everybody you know I mean the other analogy joke I always make and it's I think a valid one you know I've got three kids and and you know as much as there had been resistance to me playing the guitar the thought of me spending 12 or 13 hours a day down in the basement you know learning who knew what was a little

bit like for right now if one of my kids said to me dad i'm going to become a professional video game player you know i would say like no you're not you can't do that that's you know what's really yeah i mean exactly so but it was like that to then i was like yeah i'm gonna you know learn you know this mccoy tyner solo on reaching fourth and i'm going to really check out roy Haynes, you know, tonight, mom. How many? So you were, you were practiced 12 hours a day? Oh, I was really, I was really deep.

Finally. I mean, I still am, man. I get up to my expectations. I get up at 4 o'clock in the morning almost every day now, you know. It's, you know, to me, music is really hard. I know there's people that are really talented and stuff. And I, I really, I cautioned people about their talent. because I kind of don't really believe that much in talent.

You know, I'm more about, you know, it's hard. I don't care how talented you are. You got to work on it. Why are the early days where you pushed towards the hollow body? Because it seems like if you were in rock bands, it's a weird choice for rock bands, right? I mean, it was because of West Montgomery or it was just because that was the first guitar you had? The Gibson, the 140, da-da. Yeah, good question.

I mean, so with my parents, you know, when I finally, like, convinced them that I was really, I really wanted to get a guitar. My Christmas present one year was not a guitar. It was permission to buy a guitar with my own money that I earned. You got permission. All right. I got permission. So it just happened that the, you know, I earned $60. doing i had a lot back then yeah i had a little job and looked in the can city star and there was a

gibson guitar for sixty dollars it didn't even say what kind just gibson guitar and it was an es 140 which is this small hollow body and honestly i didn't you know to me it was like a gibson and it was electric and you know cool um so i didn't really care with solid body hollow body And that would have been before I heard four and more. So once I heard four and more, then I began the thing that we all do of like, you know, okay, who are the other trumpet players? Who are the other bass player that I need to. And then, of course, guitar, I was already holding it in my hand. And in fact, the father of a friend of my brother said, you know, you should check out West Montgomery.

And he played me a record. And man, that was it for me. And I was like, well, I got this hollow body already. So I'm like, you know, in the ballpark. The guitar shows you. You didn't choose the guitar. Well, yeah. And then actually, funny thing happened.

Not funny. It was tragic at the time. My mom is from Wisconsin. And back in those days, you, the only way to get to Wisconsin from Kansas City was an airline called Ozark Airlines. And you would stop at like Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, you know, Dubuque. Like you'd stop like six places along the way before going to Manitwark where she was from. And when we got to Manitwark, I went to get my guitar and it was just pieces of wood shattered.

I'd only had it for maybe two months. So it was awful. But Ozark Airlines gave me, I think, $100, you know, in repayment for it. And that's when I got my ES 175, which was the guitar that I said. still play most of the time. I've had it all these years. I was going to say to you that I want to thank you because I thought, I mean, we've done five years of five years of shows and, you know, we've had every virtuoso musician that you could think of on the show and nothing makes them happier than debunking my theory that perfect practice makes perfect. And,

And, you know, this goes a long time ago. I had met saxophonist David Murray. And I would ask David, like, yo, like, you know, he mentioned something like, well, you know, I took a nap at two in the morning. And then I got up at six to practice my scales. I'm like, wait a minute, you practice your scales at six in the morning? He's like, yeah, every day I wake up like five, six in the morning, do my scales for about four hours. I do breakfast and da-da-da-da-da. then I do another five hours wearing my tonal thing and I'm like wait a minute how many hours a day do you practice and he was kicking it like 7 8 9 10 he's like sometimes 10 11 hours I'm like to this day he's like yes to this day and then like his gigging starts you know after that 11 hours and you know I kind of stuck to that sort of that religious and that was like back in 87 88 and like you know I was doing like a master class with him or something but then

then, you know, I would ask every musician that I knew, like, how often do you practice? And they'd be like, whatever, like, two, three at the most. It was making me think that that whole thing was just a myth. Like the idea of the musician, Ernie Isley has a similar story about when Jimmy Hendricks used to live with the Isley brothers over in Jersey, how Jimmy would wake up every morning to practice his scales. 4.35 in the morning and Ernie would just sit in the closet and watch Jimmy for like two to three hours practicing these scales

and then that's basically how you know, Ernie, in my opinion, you know, kind of earned that baton from Jimmy Hendrix. But yeah, I just want to thank you for at least not making me feel foolish because every time I ask about practice

on the show, every guest is like, whatever. You know, it's an interesting thing. because I think every musician has a wildly different path, as we all do as individuals from everybody else. I mean, everybody's kind of got their own physical thing and their own whatever. I mean, and being a musician also is so unique to each person.

I mean, what this guy wants to do, what that guy. I mean, everybody's got their own path. And, you know, at the same time, I think that, like, I'm sure, you know, know, we've both known people who were just at very young ages, incredibly good. Like, they could just kind of do it. And man, that's a tough. That's like, it's almost one of the worst things I think that can happen to some. It's a handicap.

To be like a super commented person because it throws you off. You know, it gives you, it gives you kind of the wrong idea. And, I mean, a lot of people can skate maybe their entire career that way. But, you know, to me, the guys that I, you know, maybe that list of names that I read off, like Gary Burton's a great example of this. He, I think was, in fact, I'm sure he was like this ridiculous prodigy guy, but he also took it really seriously. And I don't know that his version of practicing would be what you and I would talk about as practicing. But, you know, I mean, there are people who I think, I mean, my. Mike Brecker, you know, he could, he, I remember seeing him near the end of his life and he was like

quiet and he was like practicing, you know, I mean, you know, it's like it, I think it can show up in a lot of different forms. I will add in my case, I don't ever feel like I'm practicing. I always feel like I'm just playing. And when I practice, I take a tune that maybe I don't know as well as I wish I did. And, you know, I just start playing it and I try to play it fast. I try to play it's slow. I try to play it in all 12 keys. I try to really know what makes that tune that tune. And that's hard. I mean, you know, I can still take tunes that I've been playing all these years and play them. And as I'm playing them, I'm discovering, first of all, what I can do and what I can't do. And what I work on is what I can't do. It's like, I don't do what I can do. I work on what I can't do.

So if I start hearing something, and I can't really do that, it's like, okay, I need to work on that. And a lot of times I hear people and they're practicing, but they're just playing stuff they can already play. I try to play what I can't play. Is that what the improvising is working on stuff that you're done? That's a whole other can of worms there. Yeah, I was going to say. By the way, we're improvising right now and we're using our language. We all have a relationship to English.

that allows us to just do our thing without really worrying too much about verbs and nouns and pronouns, you know, or what your tongue is doing while you're just doing it. You're just doing it. And we're improvising. And I mean, that's essentially, you know, what, what this thing is, you know, of being a musician in this realm is to be able to just talk about whatever you want to talk about and not get hung up with the mechanics of it. Let me ask for, okay, so, I think I've shared this story before. George Clinton once famously joked. You know, Prince, Prince often had a big reputation for over-practicing, you know.

Again, that 10 a.m., I'll find you if you're late. We're going to do the same riff five hours in a row until we get it right, that sort of thing. And George Clinton used to tease that Prince is the only cat that he knew that could practice his spontaneity. and you know I know how big you are on improvisation and sometimes even when I'm rehearsing with my guys sometimes I want to save that energy for the stage like I know that there's a certain type of energy and excitement that happens at our shows in particular that I often worry we might give away in sound check you know and I kind of want to like all right all right save it for the show. Save that energy for a show.

Don't go there and get that. Right, right. That's like when we shoot the shit before the show. Exactly. You want to shut up. Save it for the show. And, you know, well, you're actually, I'm wondering, okay, so when I spoke to, uh, when we did Bobby McFerrin on the show, you know, he said that, you know, that's his greatest thrill.

Like, you know, not to do too much beforehand, but like, he considers that I'm practicing on the stage. but because I know you're so big into improvisation and whatnot, do you ever worry about over-practicing before you even get to present it to whatever show you're doing that night? You know, there are a couple cliches that are really effective, really useful, and I found it to be really true. And that one about, you know, luck or whatever success,

is where preparation meets opportunity. To me, that's like a key one. And the way that applies to this discussion is, you know, knowing kind of as much as I can know about the possibilities of what a situation might entail. I mean, that may be the band, the music, you know, whatever. There's infinite variations. As much as I can be prepared for those things. the more fun I'm going to have.

And so for me, the goal, in fact, is, I mean, spontaneity, improvisation, professional improviser, you know, we're kind of circling around the job description in a way. And what that involves for me, then, is to be really ready. I mean, I'm like, you know, kind of, you know, I really strongly enforce that sound checks are I don't want to hear anybody really try to play anything. And I'm like the save it for the gig champ. Like, do not jam. Do not do anything, you know, like just.

You're telling me that's not the jam. And kind of I usually come up with like one section of something that we can play, that we can play it for 20 minutes because it can take a while for this kind of music to settle into the hall. And, you know, I want to give the sound guy a chance to do his best, too. And there's a way for me of improvising where it's sort of like I'm going to just kind of hang in the zone of the fundamentals. That it's kind of improvising, but I don't really have to think about it too much. And there's a kind of warming up because the physical thing of playing for me is, I could say, almost challenging.

I mean, I'm not a natural guitar player in a lot of ways. So I really do have to warm up for a couple hours. And during that period of time, I'm trying not to play any quote unquote music. But I have kind of developed these things where I can sort of invent, they almost like unfold on themselves. Like, I'll start in a key and then I'll say, okay, now I'm going to take that and I'm going to move it through, you know, the cycle of feelings. shifts backwards or something like that. So I'm not really thinking. I'm not thinking about it.

I'm just doing something that's going to get the mechanics working. That's also doing whatever those brain connections are that you want to have where you have an idea and you can get to it within, you know, sub-millis-second, you know, response time. And, you know, the best thing for me, too, also is if I can go all day without talking and really I don't eat before a gig. I really get into like this thing. Because for me, the gig is the, that's church. You know, that's the destination.

I know records are a thing, you know, and there were all those years like, okay, you've got to go out on the road to promote your record. And I'm like, really? To me, it's like you make a record. So when you show up in Peoria, somebody might come to the gig

because they've heard your name, you know? To me, it was always the records where they add to get people to come to the gig. Because the gig is it. And that's still the case for me, which kind of fits right now in the world of gigs and T-shirts, you know, because that's really what we got, right? So, you know, and I, you know, I did kind of get into making records there, you know, I mean, I got better at it, I think, and took it a lot more seriously as time went on. But to me, the gig is, that's it. You know, it's all headed for the gig.

So if I can really, you know, do the things that I know will help me get ready for that moment. And then that moment does take on this sort of significance as this is what it's all been leading to. You know, I mean, from the time I heard four and more, you know, it's like everything has been leading to this moment. And also this may be the last time I ever play. And in fact, the last time I ever played was Auckland, New Zealand, the first week of March. Last year. You know, I didn't know at that time, gee, that was the last time I'm going to play for a year and a half. So I'm kind of glad I play like that because that was it.

So you've not been on a stage since? I know. Got some gigs coming up, man. I hope. How is this the longest that you went concurrently without being on stage? This is the longest I've been in one place since high school. It's the first time I've looked out of a window and seen. you know, spring, summer, fall, winter, spring, summer from one point of view.

And I have to say, it's been fantastic. I've really enjoyed that. And the best part for me, the headline is nobody in my immediate circle died, you know. And so many of people in our community have been hit so hard. I mean, not to mention just the no gig thing. But, I mean, man, I mean, you and I both know a bunch of people who are not here right now who should be here because of this stuff. So, yeah, it's been rough in that respect.

But, you know, at this point in life, I've done a lot of gigs. So that's great. And also, it's kind of been interesting for me to kind of look out the window a bit. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I, ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people

who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess. with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserved. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating. draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the

co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game.

I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The first time I think I saw your name in credits was on this Joni Mitch. album called Shadows and Light 1980. It's a live album from a tour that you did with Jocko. I believe Pistorius was in that band as well. And Jone, obviously.

Can you tell us any memories of that time period playing with Jocco and Jone and that tour? Well, you know, I mean, Jocko was like, you know, one of my closest friends years before anybody knew who either one of us were. And, you know, our careers or whatever you want to call it parallel to each other chronologically in a pretty significant way. In fact, years before the Joni thing, Jocko played on my first record. He and I both kind of made our recording debuts together without even knowing that's what we were doing. We thought we were rehearsing with Paul Blay, one of the greatest piano players ever. I was going to say, how did that happen?

You accidentally made a record with Jaco Postol. doors not knowing it well you know paul was a trip i don't you know i don't know how much you all know about yeah that was my my next question was if you could tell our viewers about paul well paul changed music a couple times is it blay or blay play and i mean you know is he related to carlet blay yeah yeah well he was married to that's his wife oh okay see i have a whole relationship with carlet play is oh yeah hip-hop samples but go ahead yeah well paul was, I mean, you know, I could talk for Paul about Paul for 45 minutes, so I'll just leave it. Go ahead.

You know, I mean, if you ever listen to a record called Footloose, which was made in the early 60s, Pete LaRocca playing drums, swallow playing bass, I mean, that changed everything. There's a solo that Paul plays on a Sonny Rollins record where he plays with Sunny and Coleman Hawkins, and they play all the things you are. and Paul solo on that, like, just revolutionized everything. And you can even go back to like 1956. So Paul was a heavy cat and also an unusual person. So, you know, we were asked to go to this rehearsal studio, we thought,

which was a recording studio, actually, and there were mics and stuff. But, you know, we were both pretty green, to tell you the truth. And so we were playing, and Paul had not really let us improvise much. We would just play the heads over and over again. to all these hip, Carlo Blay tunes and some more net tunes. And then suddenly we were like playing, and I was like, wow, this is great. And Jocko sounds fantastic on this record. Paul, the night before, had heard some rock band

and had decided that I should play through a stack of marshals, and he'd rented a Wawa pedal, a Morley Wawa pedal. What else do you need? The guitar player would know it's like a fate worse than death, you know. It is. And even with a good wah-wah pedal, that was not really where I was at, particularly right then. So basically, you hear Jocko sounding good on that record, and then kind of off in the distance, you hear this, and that's me. But, yeah, so that was 1974.

And then we made bright-sized life, my record, in 1975. And we played a lot as that that trio with Bob Moses, the Bright Size Life trio. You know, and that's so that's several years before the Joni thing. And in the meantime, so after Bright Size Life, Jocko became Jocko. Because at the time I did Bright Size Life, I had to like, why would you want to use so and so and so when you've got this, what's that bass player's name that you use,

I was like, yeah, Gary, you're probably right. We should do it. And Moses was like, you're crazy if you don't use Jocko, you know. So that was the band for Bryce-sized Life. And then Jocko joined Weather Report shortly after that. And honestly, he and I went in very, very different directions in terms of lifestyle. Jocko was the only guy I'd ever known, you know, kind of around that time, who was as straight as I was.

And, you know, the first time I saw him with Joe Zobinole, that was a different dude. And he remained a different dude. And we were always tight and, you know, had gone different directions. But he called me in the middle of the night one night and said, I'm going to put together a string band for Joni. I want you to be in it. I'm like, okay, cool. And so it was going to be me and Joni and Jocko and Alex Akuna playing hand percussion, I think.

And then I, you know, so I'm like, wow, this is a different level. because at that point I was still like driving around in the van. I put like 150,000 miles or something on a van with my band where we would play, you know, every $200 gig we could play for three years in there. And so suddenly it's like Lear Jets and it was a real culture shock, you know, for me. But, you know, it was an interesting experience. The rest of the band was Mike Brecker and Don Elias. and

and then you know Joni had just gotten an electric guitar for the first time and had like nine George Benson model electric guitar is all tune different and it was you know it was

an interesting experience you know the best part was here in Joni at the end at the end when she would do a couple tunes solo because honestly to me you know we it did, you know, she didn't need that, you know.

She was, she was Joni, you know, and, and to me, her best thing was always sitting there and playing the guitar, the piano, or whatever, you know. So you didn't like her forays into the jazz world, you know, like the stuff she did with Ming is. I mean, you know, man, in terms of phrasing, she's, she's incredible, man. You know, I mean, to me, there, there are, you know, again, we're back to this, how, like, what are we going to talk about in terms. of style, you know?

I mean, man, you know, there are some singers, like, there's some, I mean, Dolly Parton, man, I mean, you want to talk about phrasing or Dionne Warwick or, you know, I mean, to me, it's like, yeah, and Billy Holliday, you know, there's a Karen Carpenter, you know, to many, that, I think about people who can really make the melody be the melody, you know, and I'm not thinking, oh, well, now, she's, she's folk jazz, country, you know, It's just music, you know. And, you know, singers in general, I think we all listen to to learn from how to do that thing, you know. And Johnny is amazing.

You know, she's incredible. I want to ask you about just your working relationship with the Lao Mays, you know, who passed, you know, recently. He was just somebody that, you know, you just seemed to have just an amazing creative partnership with. How did you guys meet and what was your story? with him. Man, it's tough now because it's like, God, there's, okay, so there's Lyle and there's Charlie, Mike Brecker, you know, Billy Higgins, I mentioned, Dewey Redmond. I mean, man, these are the guys, I mean, not only did we live this musical life together and each one is so deep and rich and varied, they were like, I mean, man, Lyle and I grew up together. Literally, I mean, you know, we knew each other

when we were, you know, basically just out of being teenagers. And, you know, it's just so far beyond what I can even say, you know. I mean, the good thing is that there's those records, and those records say a lot, you know. And yeah, it's tough, man. And then I think about, like, Roy Haynes, who's 90. So that's what I was about to ask you about, because I was given the assignment by my father, who's a student of Roy Haynes, to ask you about that relationship. And you already said earlier that you were listening to Roy when you were a young kid.

So the fact that you guys did a record together, like, can you, yeah, talk about it, please. Man, I could talk about Roy for the whole time. To me, that's... You know, he's still good. He's still amazing. He's still killing. He's killing. And, yeah, I mean, it's been now, I think, a couple years since I usually try to go down during his birthday and play at the blue note with him. I think the last time I did it, he had turned 93. Yeah. So he must be 95. or something now. And still playing. Oh, man.

You know, to me, the drum thing is central. And drummers love to hear me say this, but it's the truth. Whoever the drummer is is the leader. It doesn't matter whose name is on the marquee. It's the drummer's band. And I have been so lucky to play starting in Kansas City with some of the greatest drummers of this period of time. And, you know, to me, the Roy thing, as it sort of unfolded throughout the 50s, I always point to We3, this, it's a famous record with Roy and Phineas, newborn, and Paul Chambers.

To me, that one, you know, the sound of Roy is the sound of modern drumming. I mean, to this day, when I play with Roy, that's it. That's it. That's the genital of everything. You just gave you more reason to listen to this. great. Yeah. Let me, let me ask for you, and I don't know this might be blasphemous, being as though, you know, you've done sort of long-term work with your band, or in and now the Pat Metheny group, but who would be kind of your all-star lineup? Like, if I were to sign you and say, okay, in 2022, you're going to go out and tour the world, you get to put your all-star lineup together. Who's on drums? Who's on keys? Who's, who's, who's, who's, on bass who's on percussion

you know I mean honestly I know that my thing is kind of there's like these partisan things like oh well you know it's really man it's just the group you got to check out the groups

that other stuff you know that's really the only cool stuff all the rasmown or you got to check out the trio right you know I mean the thing from my standpoint is that it's not

divided and I have to take some responsibility for that because I kind of got maybe too good at sort of like, okay, this is the Pat Matinee group and this is the Pat Matinee trio and this is that. And, you know, people didn't do that back then. You know, that was kind of a new thing. They have all these different bands and sort of present yourselves in different ways. For me, they're all the Pat Mathini group because they all acted the same way. It was, you know, I'm going to write 90% of the notes we're going to play and we're going to rehearse and we're going to, you know, it's like it didn't really matter. If you look, and this is a cop-out answer to your exact question, if you look at the list of names of people that I have played with, those are my favorite musicians.

And, you know, but I include in that, Kenny Garrett, Josh Redmond, you know, Mike Brecker, you know, those guys, Herbie, you know, I've been really lucky to, to, to be able to say, you know, man, I, you know, I just did a duet tour with Ron Carter, man. I mean, it's like, you know, those guys are my heroes, man. And everybody I play with, including the new cast, Joe Dyson is my hero right now. You know, he's a new drummer on the scene from New Orleans, man. This guy is everything I'm talking about, you know? So, you know, it's like to me, to me, it's one, you know, my thing. I see it as one thing.

And, you know, I'm just glad to be a part of all of it, man. I just feel lucky to be in it, you know. Only because you mentioned it, I kind of have to go there. Okay, so I don't even know if you're aware that we were quasi-label mates. I mean, your period of Geffen, I think, ended right when I started with Geffen, which instantly meant, you know, that first year, raiding the closet was just awesome. Like, you know, it's like your first. first bin shopping is is hiding in the, going in the closet of your record label and taking all

the CDs. So that said, you mentioned zero tolerance for silence. Okay, so from my point of view, definitely coming from a standpoint of hip-hop, which I think our ears are built way different than anyone else. For me, that album was, is always my. go-to record because of your shrill noises, you know, like it's literally just an entire album of textures and solo noises that can lead to other ideas. So whereas, you know, of course, you know, I guess if you're talking about your canon, for the most part, you know, maybe zero talents for silence would be kind of considered you're on the corner, like an album that was immediately met with indifference and anger from the jazz guard,

whoever, Robert Christa Gower, whoever the critic of the moment is. But for you, though, I mean, now that decades have passed, like, what is your relationship, what was your feeling with the record when you turned it in? and, you know, three decades after the fact, what is your, your feelings on that? Because there was also speculation that you pulled the Neil Young. Neil Young also famously wanted to get off Geffen and, you know, I'm giving you. I have to say, I rarely get pissed off and stuff, but that pissed me off because it was like, oh, they thought you, so you heard the rumors of that being a throwaway.

I mean, there was some guy who wrote something. to that effect in some magazine. And that was only because Neil Young did it with trans. And people thought, you know, like what, Neil Young's doing a craftwork record now? He's trying to get off the label, like that sort of thing. So, yeah, what were your feelings on its reception and time since then? You know, my feelings about that.

Well, and also I have to preface it, and I don't know about you, but most, it seems like many, if not most musicians, never ever listen to their own records ever again after they're finally mastered after they've heard it for six months and have obsessed about whether it should be 0.2 dB at 9K, you know, all that stuff that we all do, you know. You don't listen to see if it's aged well. Like I don't like listening to my records personally,

but when I'm making a new record, I will go back to the other roots records to see if this is age well or not. Yeah, maybe I should try that sometimes. Really? No, I mean, you know, every now and then, though, I do, I have to say, I hear something and I don't recognize that it's me. And usually I go, why that sounds pretty good? Who's that?

And that's a pleasant surprise. It's rare that I hear something and I go, what is that? Oh, my God, that's me. So, you know, generally speaking, I would say, you know, my sense is. that like I was saying before, it's this one long story with these different chapters that represented different periods, but it's this continuous thing. But specific to what you're talking about here, I mean, that was a period for me, you know, as I've referenced a couple times, I grew up in a kind of open spaces kind of environment, you know. There were lots of trees and

then a field and then another tree. So kind of like the idea of spaciousness was something that was built into my thing. And I carry it with me now. I mean, I've got this 17 years of quiet that I can always go to. But my life after the time I left, Missouri was like, man, intense, dense, packed. And it's been packed ever since. I mean, you know, I mean, I'm on the road like more than most people live in New York City, you know, international family. It's an intense life.

And the natural thing for me, and it maybe hit a pinnacle around that time was the record secret story, which was done just at the same time, basically, as zero tolerance. And the idea that I had at that moment in time was I had lots of these sort of images. of things that had open canvas, and I wanted to fill up the entire canvas. And Secret Story does that, and Zero Tolerance for Silence does that in a different way. And that's kind of my sense of it. There was a really great description given to me by a man around the time of those two records and said, you know, secret story is like a painting, and there's a river in the painting. and it's beautiful.

Yeah, that's right. That's the river. And that's kind of the way I see it, too. I didn't know it, but yeah, she was right. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of it. of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone, I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.

It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old.

I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years. since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak,

and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just thought about something You know at the time in the first part of your career

You were on ECM records Which is a highly trusted Label However you made the move to Geffen And it's almost like I almost feel like we're in the same boat Because if you're a non-rock act Often questions I got was like

Why even risk it going to a label and really not built to promote you or whatnot. So what was the unusual choice of going to Geffen Records? Well, you know, honestly, you're right. I started on ECM. I did 11 records at ECM, which. Travels, I really loved, I want to say. I love that album, man.

Beautiful record. That's one that I still, you know, if people want one record. of that era, I say, get travels, because that's got a lot of information on it. But, you know, after my 11 records with the ECM, they were all done in the classic form. You get two days to record, a data mix, buy, however it came out, that's your record, and that's it. And I mean, you know, that's a viable way to make music. I mean, you know, I would still make a record like that now for a certain kind of thing. You're doing a documentary. You're doing a documentary record. You're getting a bunch of guys.

You've got some tunes. You're going to play them a couple of times. You're going to pick the best take, maybe do an edit. We didn't do fixes back then, maybe one or two, barely. But, you know, and that's it. And, you know, I did my best under those, you know, auspices. And I'm to this day, grateful to have had the chance to be on that label during an incredibly fertile period for that label. I mean, it was still kind of emerging.

I mean, I was within the first 100 ECM records a couple times, I think. Can I interject? And I don't want to interrupt the answer to the why I go to Geffen question. But since we're right here at ECM, and I just wanted for our listeners to hear the name, Manfred Iker. So can you tell us a little bit about him? He's the owner and producer of the label and thousands of records. Yeah. Yeah, he's the guy that to this day, I mean, he's, you know, I,

I was in that first 100 records. I think they're out close to 3,000 now. And honestly, everybody should hear about 2,600 of them. Yeah. I really knows how to make records. Yeah. And he and I, honestly, we never got along. I was a snotty little kid, and I thought I knew all kinds of stuff that I probably didn't know.

But, you know, my snodiness ended up also being kind of a supercharged engine to do a lot of stuff that probably was impossible to do that somehow I did, you know, and I'm just, here I am admitting on air that I was super snotty, man, that's what they had. Exclusive, thank you very much. We're going to go back to that, gentlemen. Exclusive. Just to finish up the Geffen thing, because it is kind of an interesting thing.

So at the time, you know, this was 1984, I had, you know, had, you know, a kind of success that, honestly, I, nobody was more surprised than me that we were not selling 800, 900 records travels and of, you know, the records of that era, including New Chautauqua, you know, which was a solo guitar record. They were selling hundreds of thousands of records. They were on the pop charts. And it wasn't like I was trying to do that. The tunes were still 15 minutes long.

It's just, we just kind of were touring. constantly. And there were radio stations around that time that would actually play 12-minute tracks mixed in with Fleetwood Mac or whatever else was happening. I mean, there was a bunch of stuff in the culture that allowed that to happen. And so I had a certain, I guess, viability within the recording industry world that caused the moment that me leaving ECM, a lot of interest amongst people. And, you know, I'm very fortunate that from the very beginning, I've been with one agency, Ted Curland in Boston.

We've been together, I don't know, 40, whatever years now. Right. Yeah, Ted got the message and sort of did a thing where he got a bunch of companies interested. I was able to start my own company, which since then we've licensed to all the record companies. I own everything from post-E-CM-on, thanks to Ted. Oh, wow. And among the suitors of that period, David Geffen had just started his own company. And he only had a few artists, John Lennon and, you know, Cher and Jennifer.

Holiday. Yeah, I mean, there were just a few. Donna Summer, too. He had hired a guy, Donna Summer. He had hired Gary Gersh, who was a, a guy who I had known from the work that I had done just prior to that with David Bowie at EMI. He signed Rivana, by the way. Yeah, exactly.

And Gary came to Geffen as one of the guys. Gary sort of made a case like, you know, this guy, me, it's, nobody knows what it is. He's got a following and, you know, we should sign him. And David, I said, can I meet with David Geffen? Wow. They arranged it like, sure. So I had lunch with David Geffen and he was like, well, it sounds like you've got a thing going on. We'd like to have you on the label.

And they never, I think I ever heard the J word there. You know, they were just like, this is a band, kind of like Guns and Roses. We signed this other band, Nirvana. This is a band kind of like that band. You know, they go out and they play gigs. And they were not thinking of it as anything other than music. And I mean, you know, wow, that's far out, huh? And, you know, I ended up, I think I've got two or three gold records from that.

Yeah, from that period. I was going to ask, did you ever think of collaborating with Kim and Thurston of Sonic Youth? I know that Thurston was a big fan of yours. No. And, you know, I mean, it's funny because, like you say, at the record company, you know, you go to the record company and you see everybody else is on the label. And I used to see that guy from Guns and Roses, like,

would be leaving as I would come in or, you know, I mean, and it was cool because it's like we all had the same art director. And I remember when they were doing the Nirvana cover, the famous one, because the guy was working on one of my covers at the same time or that. Same person.

I mean, you know, it was all kind of in the house there, including Sonic Youth, too. Yeah. Because they were in there, too. I was going to say, yeah, as of today, the baby from that Nirvana cover. Oh, yeah, suing.

The baby is suing for child pornography charges. Yeah, I'm like, come on, dog. Just say you need 10 bucks, man. Yeah, we're doing. Just, come on. Come on. Wait, okay, I do want to ask, um, in, does anyone from my world, from the world of hip-hop ever make a big deal of,

Letters from home. Yes. Yes. Without me letting it out the bag. You mean, like, musically? Yeah. See, this is the thing. I don't want to open up a Pandora's box because you own your masters.

Which box? Yes, exactly. But what I'm saying is that, again, the hip-hop world has a way different relationship with you. then the other words, and, you know, I mean, that's the thing about hip hop, because they'll look at something that the average world will ignore. And then they'll be like, no, but that's the thing over there. So I'm just curious, like, do any, does anyone from the world of hip hop does ever come to you and say like, yo, letter from home? Specifically, no. Next question.

Anyway. You know, I got to tell you, man, I'm like, you know, I don't hang much, you know. I kind of, I've gotten away somehow with doing my own thing mostly. And I, you know, even kind of within the circle of musicians that I would probably normally be around. Right. You know, in the, you know, going to smalls or something. And I do go hear a lot of people. And I go and I kind of stand in the back and listen to a couple tunes and, you know, but all kinds of music.

But, you know, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm not really like in the scene. I mean, I will say, because I did visit the new power station the other day, now Berkeley zoning it. And, man, you know, that was really cool back in those days where, yeah, I would see, you know, you know, everybody, you know, like, you know, everybody was there all the time. You'd run into like, you know, Eric Clapton or you'd run into Anita Bates. or you'd run in. I mean, everybody was there recording all the time. And you'd see everybody. And it was, in a way, it was kind of a social way that you would have an encounter with somebody

sort of outside of your, you know, normal hang. But, you know, I don't go to clubs or do anything like where I would be out hanging out. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in. sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations. stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a

country girl. You play stupid games. You get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm AGOe. Everyone, I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl,

Eric Galko joins the SportsSliced podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love.

On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shown. shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

The record, the slipaway record that was sample, it was a song, and it's called Summer Days by his DJ, I named Mick Holder. And so actually, the crazy thing, I did a panel with him. This is probably, I mean, God, this is 17 years ago. And we were just on a panel together, and I had never heard any of his music. And then afterwards, I heard Summer Days. And I was like, man, this is great. I want to say maybe like a year after that, I'm chilling with another one in my homie's a big jazz head. And he was like, yo, that's so and so.

So I was like, what? And then he put me on to your break. I was like, oh, that was Patman thing. Like I had no clue. But that was a bridge to, you know, to the rest of that album. I mean, my fundamental kind of feeling about sampling and the way that not just my thing, but kind of records in general are used in that realm is very positive. I mean, to me, it's really related to collage art.

and, you know, of course, graffiti and all of that stuff, which for me is like, you know, that's the language of this moment. And so to me, it's like I have absolutely no problem with it. And I love hearing people do stuff creatively. But to me, that was just like, man, that's, you're just taking Artune and putting a bait drive. That's not creative. The thing is, is that, you know, people don't understand, like, hip hop is at its core. Hip hop is African music. And African music is repetitive.

It's always a repetition of, you know, and I know that you come from a world where you got to go linear and go in a straight line like to somewhere else, somewhere else. So I initially asked that question if you were aware of how much that particular album, Let Us From Home, it sort of been a kind of a creative outlet for like a lot of the classic hip-hop stuff that I grew up born. only because I know that you are also like very open and a key developer in like new technology like with the Sinclaviere and with sampling and and with you know especially when you start at your Falcon and Snowman scoring stuff how you were basically kind of using primitive technology that we're using now like you know now half this stuff is on our laptop, were you actively advising the Sinclavia people on how to build the machine or were you just the first recipient to get it and use it and...

Well, we're going back actually 79 for that. Oh, that's how early. Okay. This is way before MIVI. And yeah, I was out there on the bleeding edge of that end. I mean, you know, there's all kinds of like sort of shocking, you know, technological aspect. to, you know, I mean, I remember at one point spending $5,000 to get a five megabyte hard drive, five may, not gig. And, and we, it was so, it was so delicate, not even a gig.

No, $1,000 a megabyte. There you go. That's thrifty. That's a high hat and a snare. Maybe. Yep. Yep. Exactly.

And not only that, it was so fragile. It had to have its own bunk on the bus. Oh, wow. And I mean, you know. And you would use it live? Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a funny thing because now, of course, everybody does all kinds of stuff now. So when the Sinclaver came out, their ad was, this is the last synthesizer you'll ever need to buy.

And it had several new things that just had not existed before. One was FM synthesis, which this is several years before the dreaded DX-7 came along. And then they were the first one. You didn't like the patches? Well, you know, they probably weren't that bad. Just didn't. No, just be honest, in 85, were you looking at like, yo, DX-7, man, this is the future? Or do you automatically knew it was cheesy?

No, I knew, man. You knew this past is right? I mean, we can also talk about synths for hours because I have very strong opinions. let's go. Mostly positive about what we nerd out on. But, you know, man, I mean, the thing about acoustic instruments, you can't make them hurt you. You know, and electric instruments, including guitar,

their default is pain, you know. It's like you really have to have a concept and a vision of sound before you plug it in with those instruments. because their default is just horrible. And also, you know, speakers. We all think about speakers, and we don't even think about speakers anymore. Of course, it's going to come out of a speaker.

I mean, man, speakers suck, you know, compared to a drum or a guitar. I mean, speaker, I don't care if it's the best speaker in the world. They're horrible. So it's like you have to have an acoustic framework to build electric music from, in my opinion. And I mean, my first act was to plug it in. You know, I've been dealing with knobs and wires and electricity from day one.

That's part of the instrument. So all of this stuff, computers and everything else, for me, that's part of the acts. A big thing for me has always been to get a good sound and to, you know, make it do at least something that has a reflection in terms of orchestration to this incredible tradition of, you know, diatonic, chromatic music that's evolved over the last few hundred years. And, you know, kind of also included in that, I would say, yeah, there can be abstraction, there can be conflict, there can be dissonance, there can be all kinds of other stuff. But to me, it requires a certain kind of wisdom to make those things really happen. So back to the Sinclaver, one of the things that it had was a sequencer.

That had never existed commercially before. So I could get this thing to play parts that we could play with. And I mean, man, that was like top secret for 20 years. It's like, you know, we would hide the Sinclair and nobody really knew what we were doing or how it was working and what was going on. And we kind of successfully managed to do that. But I never had a loop. It was always something transparent. I was like writing for cellos, writing for French ones.

And there was always this thing in there. And we almost never had a click either. It was always something musical. Yeah, it was always something musical that you could work yourself into so that you could get the feel in between the thing. Because to me, that's where the music is too, is the feel of it. But to me, it's like if there's going to be a click, I want it to rush. You know, because all the musicians I love rush.

So if there's going to be a click, man, I spend hours with the drummer, like working on making it rush. And rushing, we would rush. Playing a little ahead of the clip. I did rushing. And some of that probably comes from four and more being my first record, because they rush it crazy on that. But, you know, to me, those things, it's like tech, to me, should be in the service of the music.

I never relinquish anything to the tech. I'm always like, come on, man, you know. And that goes for the manufacturing. is too. It's like I'm always saying couldn't, you know, what if, you know, that kind of stuff. But tempo dynamics. And I mean, you know, the fact that we're still living with MIDI now is just a nightmare, man. I mean, that that sucked in 1985, you know. And still a nightmare for you. It's like, I know you know James because I know he works with you, but I mean, he brings in these like quarks from 1985 and I'm like, no, no.

I suffered through that shit back then, man. But he knows what he's doing so he can do whatever he wants. But yeah, I mean, stuff kind of was, you know, it didn't work that well back then, you know. I mean, yeah, you know. How would you, because he was so early to adapt to that sort of technology in your live show, how would you adjust if there were any faux pauses or, or, you know you lose okay we lost half the you know half the programming for blah blah blah blah blah blah they may not know that a few years ago um i did an entire project with me and a whole bunch of

robots are you hip to the orchestrion uh speaking you know i i kind of ragged on speakers a little while ago, but actually that kind of got cracked back in early 1920s. Player pianos, output device, not a speaker. The composer's in the room, but he's not in the room. You're hearing an acoustic sound. I mean, man, there it is. And of course, not long after that, somebody came along with wire recordings than 78s. It's like, you know, that put the player piano guys out of business. So for their last, for their last, last gasp, they were like, okay, we need to like, let's attach some snare drum and some symbols and a xylophone to the player piano. And then people dig that. And so they did that. And

you still hear them in pizza parlors every now and then, you know, it's like, da, da, da, da, da, da, I still see him. Yep. And those were the first orchestreons. And the thing about those instruments, you can't listen to them for more than about 30 seconds before you want to kill yourself because they have no dynamics. It's just like if somebody talks like this all the time, you cannot listen to them. And music that doesn't have dynamics, nobody can listen to that. And that was the real downfall of that tech. So flat, you know, fast forward 70 years, Yamaha comes along with the disc laveeer,

which we all know as, you know, playing Girl from Impanema, how to tune in hotel lobbies. only you would say that amazing technology and that's solenoids which do allow dynamics and I've followed this stuff all along it's something I've been interested in basically MIDI to

control voltage that can hit something or do something and so I put together a bunch of instruments from five really great inventors none of them really knew each other and went out on did a whole tour, me on a bunch of robots,

proving once and for all just how weird I actually am. It was not quite settled science before that, but that did it. But you want to talk about, you know, the potential for train wrecks. Oh, no. Wait, were you the only human on stage? I was the only human on stage. Oh, go with the story. You can check it out.

You know, the thing is I made a record, which, you know, was not really understood because you couldn't see it. But at the very end of the tour, because I did 100-and-some concerts around the world with this, at the end of the tour, we filmed it, and you can find it online, the Orchestrion project, and you can see what was going on. And honestly, it's 10 years now or more, 12 years since I did it.

I can't believe nobody else is doing it. I was like, man, you know, this is going to be a thing. But my thing, because there is one of these inventors that I've continued to work with. And the issue is dynamics. Because when you hit your snare amount, you know, the amount of, you know, what goes into that in terms of like pounds per square inch is like way more than any solenoid that existed then for sure. So now that this one guy who's a Belgian guy has come up with a really powerful solenoid that if you put your hand down there, it would break your hand. until we can present it to you or JZ or somebody in an acoustic space doing the thing that it's supposed to do, we don't have anything.

But I don't know if you've ever been to Carnival in Brazil where it's like acoustic, but loud, louder than Metallica. Because they're a billion people playing also, the same thing. Exactly. Exactly. But also just the amount of air that gets moved, acoustically, you know, and you're right, it's coming from not single instruments, but like a multiple of your own. But imagine what that could be if you, like instead of, you know, using a drum

machine and instead of it being like, you know, something coming through your crappy little speakers, you're like in a warehouse with like 17 bass drums getting hit harder than you can even imagine to make a sound. And have it happen. This is the other issue with all this stuff is latency, because of the amount of time from the time you hit a pad or whatever till the time it takes it to turn into, you know, unfortunately MIDI 1.0 to then the, you know,

control voltage aspect of it to the mechanism can be, you know, four or five milliseconds, which in terms of groove we know is sub-millisseconds. Right. And so that issue also, I think, you know, with 5G kind of stuff. And, you know, we're on the cusp of a whole bunch of possibilities for musicians with this next step in tech that's going to be really great. Wow.

Okay. So you're, are you saying that you are currently trying to improve on a robot's ability to actually have human feel and can pre-program dynamic? So like snare 1 might be 77, but snare 2 might be 45 and can do grace notes and can fluctuate and speed and slow down. But, but okay. Wow. But wait, let me respond to that because, you know, I mean, when Sinclaver came out, you know, string players, this is going to put us out of business, you know? Right.

It's like, you know, a DX-7, you can't tell the difference between this and a fender roads. It's like, yeah, you can't. Are you kidding? You know? No, no, you know, to me, I'm about both and. I'm not about either or. And the whole thing about, you know, the, like when I did the Orchestrion Project, of course, people are like, you're trying to put music, you know, all that stuff.

It's like, no, no, this is not a better way to do anything. This is a different way to do something. And I'm all about like, you know, what else can we do? to me, like again, going back to hip-hop, jazz, classical folk, you know, what I'm into is creativity. And, you know, that's what I like is, you know, like, man, I think about the Beatles, it's like, God,

you know, man, some, you know, some artists are like happy if they, if each record's got a sound. I mean, those guys, every track had a completely different sound. I mean, you know, it's like, God, I wish, you know, I mean, you know, the community that I kind of hang in, like, we're so creative. I mean, man, how many more.

trumpet, tenor piano-based drum records, you know, are there going to be? Can there be? And I dig two and four, but I mean, come on. Let's, you know, what, I mean, if you think of all, the spectrum of all possible music that there could be made by humans. And then you think about this tiny sliver that most music now inhabits. It's like, why? Why is that?

Well, let me ask, is there a challenge that had, that you have yet to meet. And I guess the B side of that question would be, have you, how do you get, how do you navigate in a situation when you're doing improvisation in which, I guess improvisation is only good as your collaborators.

And your collaborators is really as only strong as who your weakest contributor. Well, I don't want to say weakest. Like, but how do you, okay, let me just ask that question. One, is there a challenge that you have dreamt about that you've yet to achieve? And how do you navigate a situation in which you might be improvising with less skillful musicians? I don't know if, you know, if you sit in a local bar one. night with the musician i don't mean like the guys that you actively tour with but i mean man you know

for me you know it's it's again it's one of those cliches of the onion thing every new step that you take as a musician you reveal a thousand other things it's like god i you know i really need to work on that and that and that so it's really infinite for me i mean in terms of god what do i need to get better at everything you know i mean i mean It's just, I mean, one thing I will say, though, so when I started making records, I'd only been a musician for four or five years. And I mean, now it's 50 some years. And, you know, I'm, God, I'm like so much better now than I used to be. Which makes it so much more fun. I understand so much more. And, you know, remember when we first started talking, that was kind of the goal for me. And it's still the goal for me. I just want to understand. Like, what is that? And when I hear some music that I really love, I want to know like, okay, how does that work?

And once I start doing that, usually I get to the point where I can kind of play in that realm. And, you know, and that that opens up another thousand doors, you know. But I feel like I always am coming to music as a fan first, you know. I'm like, I love music, you know, the same. why I love that Miles record, you know, I hear stuff all the time. And I go, I love that. What is that? And I want to know what it is.

And also, why do I love that so much? What is it about that that really makes me dig it that much? Okay, I'm going to give you a weird off-the-wall example. So the big hit right now, that young girl, Olivia. Rob Rico? Yeah, and her tune, right? Her tune. And I mean, because I have three kids, so I hear the hits all the time.

And, you know, I dig hearing the hits. but you know that structurally that tune does a thing so it's like you know to do god don't give that much more power now I'm playing no again I don't know anything about the culture I don't know anything about her no no no no she killing this is her summer you know doing that thing and also it's something that happens a lot in right at the moment the thing where it's kind of fast but it's also half time but it's also double time you know, which is a cool thing. I mean, there's like some, you know, swing versions of that, too.

You know, I mean, that's a great thing. And there you have it. Pat Metheny, Olivia Rob Rico, you know, I mean, I can find some others, but that just popped into my mind. But, you know, in terms of orchestration, dynamics, build, execution, and then particularly communication. I mean, it does the thing, right? And, you know, maybe that's lost in a lot of this discussion.

It's like all the stuff, you know, about rhythm and harmony. Melody's kind of a mystery zone. But rhythm and harmony, man, you can talk about that stuff. You can go to college for four years on rhythm and harmony, easy. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger. than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. is the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love.

On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Dan's. Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Pat, you were talking about your kids earlier. How old are your kids, man? They're 22, 20, and 12. Oh, okay. That's Olivia Rob Eagle. Got it.

I was going to say, what's their music matriculation? Like, how do you, what's your relationship with them musically? Seems like it goes, like, either full in or, like, don't bug us with the music thing, Dad. They're more in the second category. Although all three of them could be musicians. They're all kind of mind-blowingly good ears and so forth. Taste-wise, man, they're all over the place. My middle kid, Jeff, who's like super hip, he's six, four.

He's mostly into basketball. But he started playing acoustic bass. And, I mean, he's been around Christian and Charlie Hayden and all these cats since he was born. And, I mean, he's just got a natural, easy, walk and feel. But the notes are kind of like, you know, kind of, you know, I don't want to say

random, but, but you know, the feel wins, actually. It's like, you know, with that feel, it's like just fill in some blanks, but he's just kind of like, yeah, I think I'm going to go practice free throws instead. So it's an never thing where you force your kids to like pick up the banal and

you're going to join the family business and okay. Yeah. No, I wouldn't be like that. I don't see that. And also, you know what, man, being, like I said earlier, I mean, I'm so happy to be a musician, you know, it's like we actually get to deal in a currency that's true, you know, it's like B flat is always B flat, no matter what else is going on. And in every language is the same. You never know. You feel good, you know.

We live in a time with facts are debatable, so, you know. That part. But B flat is always B flat. Steve, before I close, did you have a question? Yeah. You were also on other great labels, Warner Brothers, none such. But the two albums you put out this year in 2021 are on modern recordings. Is that your label?

And can you tell us a little bit about those two records? Yeah. So my label was formed in 1984, which is Mathini Group Productions. And from that time until now, at various points along, the way, I have made licensing deals with several different companies, which were then sold to other companies on a couple occasions, which were then distributed by other companies. But throughout it all, I've always had my own thing. I do what I want to do. And everybody that I have worked with along the way has been great. My thing has been my own thing since I left ECM. And it's

it's just been a matter of getting different distribution. These guys, you know, it's part of BMG, this modern recordings thing, you know, for the first time in a really long time, because actually when I went to Geffen, Geffen was distributed by Warner's. I mean, it doesn't matter. It's really complicated. Then Warner's and Geffen got into a fight because of me. I was like this speck of dust on a pond at the bottom of that somehow when they broke, up their distribution thing, you know, and Warner's had invested a lot in me and my band distributing

with Geffen. So anyway, I wound up on Warner's. Then Warner's had a thing. It was kind of a little different than at Geffen where they really left me completely alone. Warner's, I kind of did have to, you know, and was around a really good guy there, Matt Pearson, who was a really great, enthusiastic supporter of my thing. And then at a certain point, they shut that down. And then Nonsuch took over what was left of that. And actually, the guy that ran Nonsuch at that time was a guy that I were, he started at ECM when I did, Bob Horwitz.

So it's been all these guys. I've known all these guys along the way. And it's been great with all of them. Finally, you know, I had this record deal that had been put in place, I think, in 1992 for, I mean, is insane. And then it kind of got to the end after all these years. And I did a lot of records off the lay off the contract and stuff in between and, you know, whatever. It's all just whatever that stuff was. But finally, for the first time, I was kind of like, okay, I can, I was now 12,

was going to school. And a new kid came into the class from Germany. And he was this big monster fan. And he came to my house and sat down with a guitar and started playing all the tunes. And I was like, wow. Just showed up like cold. He was invited over. Oh, and then he said, and we're, you know, I'm, I'm part of BMG and we're starting this new thing. We, would you, would you possibly be interested? And I was like, well, yeah, I mean, why not? So now they're distributing it. And I mean, it's distributed, I think, by Warner's again.

I don't know. You know, for me, especially at this point, the whole idea of records and, all that, it's a little hard to even know what's going on. I mean, you know, it's a different world in a lot of ways. But on the other hand, I'm kind of like, you know, a guy that I do believe in the sort of structure of what an album is. I think there's something to be said. Kind of like a novel is different than a tweet, you know. Man, say that.

I mean, the novel form is a really great form. Even short stories, you know, a collection of short stories is a really nice form. And, you know, I kind of relate to that in ways that doing one tune at a time, you know, maybe at some point I don't have anything against it, but I'm still like, you know, I've got so many projects in mind, many of which I've already even done that are kind of album type records. So, yeah. Wait, do you have another question, Steve? Yeah. Can we interview you forever, please? I was about to say.

You can see from my answers. You can see from my answers that could actually be possible. I can go on and on and on. Everybody in the house is like. It's a lot of knowledge. This show actually lives up to the idea of what I would like to think every episode of Questloop Supreme is. I mean, I love the education. that we're getting and the knowledge.

Like this is, this is very important. All right. I got one last question. Well, I got a bunch of questions for you, too, because I want to get those in. So go ahead.

Hey, ask away. Wait, no, I was about to wrap up. You'll do your last one, and then I'll start asking you. Okay. I heard that in an interview once on WBGO,

where you said that you, I'm sorry, it's Jersey, New York, WBGO famous jazz station of New York that you keep a diary or journal of all the shows that you do how long have you been keeping a journal

of these shows and how in depth are they and do you ever plan on releasing this as a memoir to your illustrious career Well, the first thing I would say to that is something I've been saying on occasion, which is, you know, the line between like full-blown mental illness and like compulsive productivity is a very fine one that I do my best to stay on the right side of it.

And, you know, my reasons for that, it's been, I've been doing it since the 1981 is that I was doing a lot of gifts. And, you know, back in those days, it was quite common when you would do a tour. You would play the same city two or three times on the tour. And so I was like, I want to keep track of what we played so that when we come back the next time, we play a different set or at least put it in a different order. So that started it. It was kind of a pragmatic thing. And then I started to realize like, okay, and also every time we would go to

that hall there was like a really nasty buzz so it's like you know i started to keep track of that stuff too and every time we would go work with that promoter he he you know would would not do this or he had a crappy sound system or whatever it was take notes back in those days i was the tour manager you know i was everything you know and you know having that reference thing then i could at least call ahead to the right kind of piano, whatever. So, you know, with stuff like that. But then I realized, too, that I was taking kind of, I was starting to become more aware of the kinds of things that I would do again and again that I didn't really dig that much.

And, you know, and this was totally self-directed. and there is a thing that we all have as musicians, especially if you play a long set, you know, like, you know, the fourth tune, you completely destroy the bridge.

It's like you didn't even come close. And then, you know, two hours later, the set is over, and everybody claps, standing ovation or whatever, and you kind of go,

well, yeah, I guess it was cool. I mean, everybody seemed to dig it, you know? Then the next night, you're at the first night,

up the fourth tune again and here comes that bridge and it's like you didn't shed it you didn't you mess it up again you know so it was stuff like that it was like you know if i keep track of these things by replaying the whole gig in my mind because i can only do it for about an hour or two after the gig after that it's like first of all i'm wasted because we do you know six cities a week and you know riding the bus every night so it's like by the next day it's like just a blur anyway so A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments

in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all. dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo, who, woo, who, who, who. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much. much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game.

and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player

on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I, I am. ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a

space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends. either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospect. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. and now, I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player,

on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was there most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak,

and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerrecon and John Green

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so if you have questions, I will answer them for you. I got a question. I mean, this is a first.

I'm so ready for this. I'm not ready for this. I'm like, yo, man, I hear my mama call me. Yeah, ask Questlove. This won't surprise you, though.

My questions are to start with about the movie, which is unbelievable, man. Thank you. Flowers. Unbelievable. It's incredible what you did now. Oh, thank you.

I appreciate that. You know, but it's more than, it's more than what it is. It's something else that's really important. And you did it so good, man. I mean, it's like, you know, everybody has to see that. And technically not a question, but yeah, not a question, Babethy.

I will take that compliment. Is it any more Sunny Sharrock footage? And I do have a comment on that. But how did you get it to sound that good? Yo, that is the million dollar question. I lie to you not. One of my favorite engineers in the world is Jimmy Douglas. Yes.

A gentleman who's, you know, he started all. Timberland. Barry White and Slave and eventually went to Timberland and Missy Elliott. Like he, he, 40 years of excellence. He also did the Euretha Franklin, Amazing Grace, movie as well. I lie to you not. Jimmy hit us and was sort of like

I think this rough mix sounds good as is and literally I'll say that we did maybe 0.2% EQing. Like what you're hearing is the act is just a rough reference mix which to me I don't know how

to explain that only 15 microphones and you You could look. I've watched the movie in various ways. There was one time where I just watched the movies to see what the outputs were. And, you know, and Stevie Wonder set alone, there's three mics on his drums. So that's already 12 mics left over. Three mics were his drums.

Three mics for his other drummer. And then his keyboard gets a mic. His vocal gets a mic. And his rhythm section, his guitar and his bassist share. They're, what do you go? Their amps are sort of facing each other. So they're sharing a mic. And the remaining five are going to the brass section.

I don't know how it sounded that crispy and perfect, but we basically did very little post on the sound. Like what you're hearing is like the rough mix of the reference, which to me was way more perfect than anything that we could have done to it. So it's Sonny Sharak, right? So Swallow, this connects with one of our earlier points. Swallow said, yeah, I would watch Sunny like get there early and meticulously warm up with these chromatic scales for like an hour. And then he would go out on stage. And not play chromatic scales. No, he was great, Sonny.

And you got some good sunny there too. I mean, the way, and also, I mean, man, I mean, so all the music aspect of it is great, but to me, what was really great was the story you told with it and the way you told the story. And just everything about it, man, it's just the greatest, really, really. Well, I appreciate that. And I thank you for receiving it. And they're laughing right now because they know that I cringe at compliments, but no, I'm better at it right now. And that said, I'm wrapping up this episode of Pat Metheny's Questlips and because they are laughing their ass off.

No, seriously, I want to thank you for doing this. And again, I appreciate information and history like no other, especially with music, and all that you've done to push the art form of music forward, not even just jazz, but just creativity forward. is not lost on me and we're big fans of yours and we appreciate you for doing this show. For real man, yeah. My good buddy, Chris Bernoff

is a huge fan of yours. He's a guitar player. He like has your song, he has like a Pat Mathini songbook in his studio and he showed it to me. Dude, that shit looked like the Bible. It was huge. I was like, what the fuck? So, nah, man. I'm a huge fan and I just want to thank

you too for So May It Secretly Begin. That's another favorite one of yours that I really enjoy. So just thank you for all the music, man. For real. Hey, it was a pleasure hanging with you guys. Thank you so much for inviting me, really. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. All right. Well, on behalf of Sugar Steve

and Unpaid Bill and Fonticelo and Laia, my name is Questlove. Thank you, Pat McPenie. This is Questlove Supreme and we'll see you on the next go-round. All right, thank you. Yo, what's up? This is Fontay. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast.

Peace. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

fields of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrating. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed human.