The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Patrice Rushen

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

Composer, producer, and music director, Patrice Rushen joins Team Supreme to discuss her life as one of the music industry’s most versatile artists. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, this is QLS Classic. My name is Questlove, and we go back into the archives November 2018. and we interview the legendary, exquisite, Patrice Russian. We hope you enjoy.

Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, subprima, role call. Suprima, sub, subprima role call. And the president of production genius. Yeah. Piano floutist singer. Yeah.

It's Patrice Russian. Yeah. A.K. Baby Fingers. Roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. My name is Fonte, yeah. And I got to yawn.

Yeah. Because I've been up, oh man, since before the dawn. Roll call. Supremia, so, sub, suprema roll call. That was my initial word. Suprava, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Boss bills in the house. Yeah.

Like the Eagles best of. Yeah. I'm not the host of this show. Yeah. Settle for Quest love. Roll call. Suprema, Sra.

Suprema, Roca. Repeat it. Suprema, Srama, Roca Call. Eslaeim. Yeah.

And forget it not. Yeah. Patrice Russian. Yeah. A black girl who rocks. Roll call. Suprima. So,

Suprima, Ro call. Suprema, Sma, Suprema Role call. My name is Sugar. Yeah. I brought this album in.

Because it's called before the dawn. Yeah. Piece of shit. Suprema, roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. This is Patrice. Yeah. I got no rhyme.

Yeah. But I am here. Yeah. Gonna have a good time. Roll call. Suprema. Suprema. Subrima.

Roca. Suprema. Suprema. Superma. Submma role call. Supraima roll call Supremma So, Supreme a

Steve hot God damn Should have Steve hot, ladies Ladies and gentlemen He didn't He should have told us I didn't know you had the record

No you're supposed to talk about the later stuff I'm talking about the jazz shit He's the jazz guy Wait ladies and gentlemen Let's just recap for our audience We're going to recapitulate for our audience Now about Usually about three minutes before every taping

I just give a courtesy check To all the members of Team Supreme To see if they're ready to do their verses And of course the guesses always start Like I'm gonna do my verse too You know It's three minutes of putting out fires And

Today Steve Was Steve Plus you Bill took my turn But what happened was that Steve wasn't on the right He was trying to give you time to come over the new. And he wasn't on the right end.

Because on the right end, we already discussed. We wouldn't say forget me, Nause. You wouldn't say settle for you love. And, you know, just. Yeah. Because I was like, I thought, I was like, okay, remind me. I'm like, okay, somebody's going to do remind me. I was going to do all that.

I was like, okay, remind me. I was like, okay, feel so real. I'm like, all right, maybe that one, but I just did it. Before the dawn. So, yeah, but Steve had the nerve to like, I can't think of an eye roll. If it looks to kill. Yeah. I would have been wronged.

Like, how dare you ask me, am I prepared? I am the O.G. Steve takes a lot of pride in his role calls. I guess. I had the same thing, too. I had the yawn, dawn thing. Ah, damn. I need those.

Oh, wow. I'm sorry. You know. All right, all right. Let's not get out of control. Yeah. No hard feelings, prick. No, I'm sorry, my.

No, my. No, feelings. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. This is what our day is going to be like. I did. Questlove Supreme. Yes, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm Questlove, your host. Extraordinary.

I don't know. I'm also on like 20 minutes or sleep. No hours of sleep. Yeah. We have Team Supreme with us. We have Fantigolo. What up? Everything.

How's it going? Everything's good, man. Happy to be here. This is one interview I've been wanting to do since we started Questlove Supreme. Yes. Like, she's been on my wish list from day one. Yeah. So this is a dream come true.

Made it happen, Fonte. Yes. you? Yes, yes. I'm, come on, I'm doing good. We're in Capitol Rockers. Doing good. Yeah.

That's right. We're in the home of, uh, Nat King Cole. Is this Nat's room? Nat's, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we're in the capital building.

This is my first time here. We also have, uh... I've been here more than you. Well, you work for Universal, so... I never went here when I worked here. When I worked for Universal, so... What did you do here? I had a friend.

networked here and I just came to visit. Oh, I don't have no friends. All my friends are dead. And we have Sugar Steve with us. Any other fact toys about the building? I'm certain that you were here hours before we were. Yeah, I was, but

I was here 25 years ago trying to sneak in the front door. I made it as far as the lobby. It got the, excuse me, please leave kind of thing. And came back now as a client. Oh my God, Steve. That's a beautiful Story. And now you went here.

So, wait, you got you got jazzy jeffed out the... Yeah. This was before I was even engineering. I was just here, like, trying to check out the building and stuff. Oh, okay.

That's cool. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today, I can say that, you know, we often throw the word musical genius or musical innovator around a lot, but I will say that our guest yesterday's is pretty much

lives up to that title as a musician as a singer, a composer, a ranger and soul train dancer. Wow. Wow. I'd like to know

if the songs that you write, do they relate to any of your past experiences or do you just write them sporadically? You got to interview Bill Wethers. That's amazing. Wait, before we get it, ladies'el Please welcome the Questlove Supreme, Patrice Russian. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

How are you today? I'm great. Thank you. Sorry for the crazy energy we just brought to you. That's all good. She was happy to get out today. All good. All good.

So how are you? Everything's fine. Everything's been beautiful, you know, doing a lot of different things. School just started. You know, I'm the chair of the Popular Music Program at the University of Southern California. Okay. Yeah. Professor Russian.

So we're back. Dr. Russian? I am that too. Oh, yes. Yeah. Now that one, that's from the Berkeley College of Music. Okay. Yeah, from years and years ago.

Yes. Well, okay. Tradition. Where were you born? I was born in Los Angeles, California, right here in L.A. Yep. In the heart of what part of it? From the People's Republic of Watts.

Yes. Yes. Really? Yes. I'm from South Central, LA. Wow. Okay. Been here in my whole life.

Your childhood, I wouldn't know how music entered it, but what was your childhood into? Music was just part of the air. Okay. You know, the radio was always on. My parents watched television. I was never without TV. Your parents weren't singers or musicians? Not at all.

Not at all. What? Not at all. In fact, really music lovers, they belonged to a, they used to have a record club that they would send you a record a month. So my parents belonged to this record club,

and they would send these records. There was always music in our house just because they just loved music. You mean like Columbia House? Columbia, exactly. Okay, okay. Exactly. And so music of all types,

classical music, jazz, gospel music, anything. You didn't know what you were going to get. And so on Saturdays when we would be cleaning up the house, they would put a stack of records on it because you know they're... Yeah, it would drop down. You guys are a little young to remember. Oh, no. You haven't even been here.

You flatter so much, but we're like 90. On those turntables, you know, you had a spindle. Yeah, we have those. And you stack your records and they would drop down. Oh, yeah. I always thought that was so amazing. So they took a whole stack of records and we were supposed to have that house clean by the time. You got to the last one.

So sometimes, you know. Well, what if those are just a jazz? record with only like two songs on one side. You just had to keep going until that last record. So I heard a lot of different kinds of music. And then growing up in LA, you know, we had the Latino population. And so there was a lot of the influence of that music. Of course, the music of the church, black church.

I learned to play the piano visa classical music because that was how you learned back then, the study of the tradition of that instrument then. When did you start playing? I started playing when I was about five. Wow. And I was in this experimental course. I went to, there's six years difference between my younger sister and I. Okay.

So my parents put me in a nursery school program while they worked when I was a kid. And the teacher there was really musical. And she's the one that really noticed that during the day when we would do any musical or movement to music activity, that's when I would, you know, really shine. Yeah. They said, oh, that's beautiful, so what do we do? And she knew about this program that was designed for young kids that was actually happening at USC. It was a graduate course for music education majors.

It was called Eurythmics, and they were designing programs for little kids who just seemed to be gifted in music. They were developing studies. Now, this is pre-year-old childhood development stuff that we just take for granted. now because that's just a part of the way we roll now. But back then, that was still new here. So I was a part of this class and I went through this program

that was when I was three, started playing when I was five because they said, you want to play an instrument now, right? So I did that. Piano was chosen for me and stayed in that program right up and through high school. And so there are a few of us that,

I met a few people rolling through there. Pian as Billy Childs go through there. There was some amazing people that have since, you know, used their background there to start doing film scoring, a guy named Nathan Wong. There's plenty of people that I saw go through there,

the conductor of the San Francisco Symphony, Michael Tilson Thomas. He used to be coming out of his piano lesson as I was going into mine. And so these were people that I just kind of ran into. I didn't know then, but then seeing them years later, that idea of that spark as a kid is a big deal. And we take it for granted, but that's why I'm such a big proponent

of exposing kids to music. Just have it going so they can hear it. We recently had Bobby McFerrin on the show, and he said some similar things because he started out kind of parallel with you, like six years old and a music. program and then the composer and the conductor thing. Yeah. And his dad was an amazing opera singer.

We learned. Yeah, we learned. Yeah, we learned. Yeah. So that exposure is like kind of critical. And one of the things that I hope we will find a way to kind of put back into our just daily lives is, you know, we used to see music on TV. We watched people dance to music.

just as a matter of course like this is what music does to just the average person so you saw people moving to music you heard music on television all the time with shows with live bands I mean coming up out here was like wow when you would see an orchestra on TV

or playing the Grammy Awards or playing one of those big shows it's like I want to do that where your parents wake you up yeah wake up something on TV and you know I was always looking at stuff and then the theme songs of shows, you know, of just sitcoms or of series.

That was a big deal because, you know, you could recognize what was about to come on. You'd be in the kitchen, you'd be like, oh, some songs on or, you know, sometimes it would be the theme. Right in my head. Right in my head. Greatest American hero. Give me a break. Are you 80s? And those are not easy to do when you're.

figured that wow, a composer is going to put together something that's going to have something so memorable in a very short period of time that's going to set the tone for a television show and people are kind of identified. That's really hard. That's really falling off though if you really think about it, right? Like what theme so throws today do you really know besides doong? Stranger things? They don't exist anymore because they're selling it at time.

The time that was supposed to be for the theme song is gone. It's gone. So I got to do a couple of them which I was really happy about. I did the Steve Harvey show. Oh, I just like you did. Go on, go on, go on. Go on, go on. In fact, we recorded it here.

Oh, nice. Oh, man. I did most of the television stuff that I did here. Oh, name some other ones, but you just remind people. Well, we did the, I did the image, the N-A-CP image awards for about 13 years straight. Oh, man. And you were always in the booth, not in the pit. Yes, I was music director of the show.

I'd be conducting and have to play at the same time. Yeah. Such great fun, worked with some. so many amazing artists and working in the medium of television actually was what I wanted to do. That's what I wanted to be in. That was your initial plan? That was my initial plan. I watched so much TV I wanted to be in there.

I wanted to do that. Like as an actor? No, I love the music. So I said I want, but I didn't know the path, you know, to get there. So later, you know, I knew I needed to stay in Los Angeles. but as I kind of went through public school system and stuff like that, I went to a high school, L.A. and Lee Roy Lock High School.

And it was there, really, where I figured out what I kind of wanted to do and how I was going to use. I had had music in my life my whole life, but I didn't know what I was going to do with it because I see how many people look like me doing it. So, okay, since you have an actual education in music, maybe and you're from the West Coast it's kind of a two-part question one

in California was there a specific kind of fall off or waning period of where they started to take the music education out the schools because I know that in the 60s especially and in the 70s well I mean I went to a perform in art school but even then like in the 70s when I was in elementary

school there was like trumpet lessons and that sort of thing. And then like come the 80s and it just totally, you know, it's just sports. And that's it. Was there a period in which that fell off in Los Angeles where? Yeah. It seems like it, it seems like it started in the middle 70s. And by the time we got to the 80s, it was almost gone. There are special programs and things like that. But in terms of music just being in the schools because it's supposed to be something that people do. to have a well-rounded education, that did start to go away. And I think that I probably got out of the L.A. city school system, graduated from that

just at the beginning of when you could see the funds and the idea of doing that kind of going away. They started trying to, rather than have separate school programs, they did try to put some community type programs together where you had several schools, which is a good idea, had several schools that would do stuff. But in terms of, I was at probably one of the schools, one of the few that had a very, very strong music program. Out of that program came a lot of musicians.

They were there at the school the same time. Gerald Albright, saxophone player, the late Indugo Chancellor. He was there. We were there at the same time. So is this elementary or high school? High school. Okay, okay. This is high school.

Did they even give recorders out at high school anymore? Remember, like, everybody would just get a recorder and you could take your home? Yes, they still do that. Okay. Yeah. So we were in bands, an orchestra, and jazz band and things like that, and our teachers were pretty innovative. At that time, they had the thought that they keep the kids who are in the community focused on that as opposed to outside influence.

If you're going to be in a gang, then you need to be in the march band. That's the biggest gang. in town. So we had music as sort of the platform and the jumping off point to study history, to study social graces, to learn about things outside of our neighborhood, outside of ourselves.

And those of us who did opt to be professionals had sort of a point of view on the different kinds and different styles of being a professional musician. There were those who went on the road that played, but there were also those nameless faces that played in the studios all the time and did sessions all the time. They were just as good. And there were people who wrote things and there were people who arranged things and people who actually literally copied music before the software that we now use as music publishing software. So there were all these different lifestyles of being a musician that we were exposed to being in Los Angeles.

and a lot of us wanted that skill set that would allow us to do any of it, all of it. When you said that you were young, you said you played like classical. What was some of the pieces you would play? What was some of your favorite stuff to play? Oh, well, you know, I had to learn the classical repertoire. I was like Bach, a lot of box.

See, my hands are small. So my teacher really worked a long time to develop a certain kind of strength so that the fact that my hands were small wasn't going to be any pitfall when I got to larger work. So I played Bach and a lot of Mozart and a lot of Haydn. Then I played Beethoven.

My man. And then proms, and then, you know, bigger pieces and stuff. But the piano, for me, spoke to me in a certain way. But it was the playing with other people. Because piano, I was playing a lot alone until I got to high school and was playing in different ensembles. Now, I learned to play the flute because I wanted to, a case.

You know what I'm doing something. And you can't carry a grand piano. No. I know your books. The cool kids had a case. I know exactly how she feels because I was just a drummer in school. And I wasn't looking my big ass snare drum. It's all over the place.

So yeah, I know exactly how you feel about that case. So I learned to play the flute and that experience of being inside of an orchestra, flute sitting in the middle or in a band where the flute sitting on the side. That is what gave me a perspective of. like I want to write I want to write for these kinds of ensembles. I love these songs.

See, wait. I want to jump for one your question. I'm glad you asked this. Because, okay, as a person that samples, were you leading to,

you remind me? No, no, no, no. No, I wasn't going to. Go ahead. Well, okay, I only wanted to ask what your, your practice regiment was at least hour-wise

because yeah, I was going to I was going to say that all those arpeggios you do at the top of, you remind me, you don't have to quantize it. Well, we didn't have any sequencers. I know that, but the timing, like, as a person that knows, like, this particular artist fluctuates and you might have to time stretch it or whatever, you don't, I know for a fact that you don't have to do that on yours. And which tells me that your right hand is strong as hell. As far as your figure, what was your, as far as your practice regimen, how many hours a day would you? Well, when I had time to practice, I didn't take as much advantage of as I probably should have.

But there was a particular, there's always going to have certain technical exercises. This is my belief. I was taught this way. Certain of technical exercises as warm ups that you have to do just because, you know, you're developing a certain kind of strength in her. everything. And you also got to be under control. Then you work on the pieces that you're learning or the song that you're trying to learn to play. And my teacher's always emphasized, if you want to learn to play fast, play slow. Get your accuracy up.

Exactly. Exactly. Because you're training, it's muscle memory as well. Which is hard to do when all you want to do. But that's really, that was really an important part of developing good technique. is to play slowly. What was it about Beethoven? Because, I mean, I hear classical music, and to me it just all sounds like classical music. What in particular was it about Beethoven's pieces

as a composer? Like, what did you like about his stuff? What sets him apart from everybody else? I think after playing so much Bach, which a lot of single line harmonies that are implied to be able to really play chords, was like, whoa. My man had some chords.

It's pretty loud. And then later, you know, getting into Ravel and Debussy and more of the colors and things like that. Remember that while all of this was happening, at home, I'm hearing Duke Ellington and Miles Davis and Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Von and Perry Como and Frank Sinatra. I'm hearing all this stuff on these records that are dropping every Saturday. And so now I'm starting to identify a relationship between the music that I'm actually. playing for my lessons, because that's what that represents. Yeah, and the stuff that you're enjoying. And then the stuff that I'm hearing at church,

and then the stuff that I'm hearing on the radio and see, I'm a Motown baby, and then the stuff that my parents bought. I'm starting to hear this relationship. So you didn't look down to pop music? Like most serious musicians would like, uh, trite, uh, pop music? Not at all.

Because for me, um, the music had a mood and a purpose. And it was Motown. at the time, right? Like, when you say pop, we're talking about... At that time, it was Motown, and then on the other, you had Beach Boys, and then you had the Beatles. You had a lot of things that were kind of converging

at the same time, and Slice Stone and all this stuff, you had a lot of things converging at the same time. And, no, it was like, it was music that you liked or music that you didn't like, it moved you or didn't move you. You know, it didn't really matter

in terms of the category for me, you know, which is why I can reap at, you know, Brahms and James Brown. James Broms. James. So, okay, because I know the way that most

Northeast, well, you went to Berkeley, so you already know what's up how snobby the East Coast is as far as jazz musicianship is concerned, the seriousness and kind of how they look down on the L.A. jazz scene.

Were you at all aware of the kind of... The difference? Well, not the difference. There was a perception for some reason. I never really got that.

Because all you had to do was come here and look. Now, did you have to look a little harder because it wasn't staring you in the face at every corner? Yeah. But no, there was a...

There was always... At least when I was coming up, there was always a scene here. And musicians came here. There were clubs. And this was part of a circuit. And we did. I guess you can only do this at a all black high school.

We went on field trips to the club. Wow. Our teacher was that, everybody tries to get in the club. Our teacher was that innovative. What did that permission slip look? And he would pick us up and we would go. But they would sit in the back, have our fruit punch. So see, I still, I heard all of this music that was supposed to be

indicative of what the East Coast vibe was like. Because they were coming out here playing a two. And there was, like I said, and there was a scene here. If I was going to qualify anything, I would say that there was a different awareness here, not necessarily better or worse, but different, because you saw all kinds of different musicians. So it wasn't only the person playing at the club.

You had to have mad respect for the person who was playing in the studios, too, because you know what they did on their brakes? they read the stock market and tried to decide where they were going to take their yacht this next next vacation because they worked every day just as hard and had to have mad skills

and could go home at night and rest with their family and then come the next day so we saw these different styles of being a musician I'm not saying one was better than the other but is a hunger or deeper a little bit on the other side than that way? No I don't know because it's like if you're aspiring to be the best of what you do or have the idea of being able to be so versatile

that you can be a contributor on so many fronts so we would you know I could come and sit down and watch Quincy Jones in a studio and all the musicians that were there playing that music for those television shows And then I could go to the jazz club, you know, and hear Farrell Sanders or Herbie Hancock or somebody like that. And then I could talk to a George Duke or I could talk to a Gerald Wilson about his big band writing. I never left Los Angeles to do any of that. It was all available to me. And all of these different takes on this idea of music as a lifestyle allowed for me. me to be able to find many ways to achieve my goal, which was I didn't want to do anything

else. I just wanted to have a career where I could do music. As a quick question, like, what was George Duke like? Because he's the person that, I mean, God rest and so, like, we, I would love to get him on the show, but like, what was he like just as a musician, as a person? What was it like working with him? George was like, like, just kind of like you would see him, like super jovial. He's really one of the musicians because I had a little more access to him who kind of

without saying it embodied what it was that I thought I wanted to do because he could do anything. He could write orchestral music. He was a great producer. Hang out with Frank Zappa. Yeah. Were you into the deep Zappa stuff

and stuff in 19 billion second liter? I looked at it and I'm like Oh, it's upside down? Is this what it is? Yeah, no, I saw it. So, no, I knew what it took, you know, to do that kind of thing. And George was doing it all and always, I was with a smile.

And when he would produce, a lot of times he would call me to play. Were there notable, not were there notable shows, but was there a notable concert performance that you saw as a youngster that was finally your moment of Eureka, like, okay, this is what I want to do professionally for the rest of my life. Like, what was a mind-changing or life-altering? There were a few. You know, like I said, I really liked orchestral music a lot. So when I would watch back in the day, there was a Grammy orchestra that was on TV playing for everybody.

And when I saw Quincy Jones conduct that orchestra, I was like, okay. And then I paid more attention to the other live orchestras on TV. Who's, who's conducting the Emmys? Well, who's conducting the Tony's? Well, who's conducting the Oscars? I wanted to know what that process was because that's... That's weird, because everyone would be like, Ah, Stevie Wonder.

And you're like, the guy that's playing them off from the long speech. That's three, four different checks. The Emmy check or Oscar check? Well, the idea, the idea was, that, you know, I loved commercial music. I'll just put it under that big umbrella. And that encompasses

everything. I love jazz. I love popular music. I'll see all of these things as branches of the same tree. But music directing, conducting, can you break that down? What that's about? Yeah, like the difference is because most people don't know, because I look at you and I'm thinking of, okay, well, Adam, but no, he doesn't conduct. He's just a music director, not just, but

it just stacks up your... Well, the music, you know, the definition has kind of, morphed into some other things, but the idea of it, the concept of music direction is that that's the individual that is in those shows, who is responsible for the music happening. Now, it can take on different forms. Sometimes you're the one who actually would pick the musicians. Sometimes you're the one who has to pick the musicians and also be the catalyst for what the sound of the music is going to be as far as the writing is concerned, what people are going to play. play. You're usually the translator from what the producers and the show and the directors,

what they want to do, and then what has to happen, what has to happen, musically anyway. And, you know, you're the person who really speaks with the musicians and the other designated cast of music people to get it done, whether that's the arrangers, going into a studio to pre-re record something for the show or to make those you know make all the meetings how hard is it to elbow room uh yourself into that situation okay i'll put it out there like right now rickie mine is kind of a problem no i'm just saying that he's he's the guy he ain't buzzing you know what i mean and i wouldn't either yeah so it's like you all got to take me out i ain't Right, exactly.

But, Riky Miner has what, and, Amir in your mind, Ricky Miner is where? Like, he has what things? See, Ricky Miner has... And let's explain to who Ricky Miner is and what to do. So, Ricky Miner is basically, I mean, he's the musical go-to director of the moment. What I realize now isn't necessarily... And there's no shade, no dig, whatever.

I realize that a lot of positions in Hollywood are based on how you nuance your relationships with the people in power. And so a lot of the times is just, you know, I think to her or to anyone in this room speaking now, it's like, oh, man, to get a project like that would be amazing. But I think to a higher up at a movie company or whatever, I mean, musical director could sort of be like a band-aid or something like an afterthought.

And usually with afterthought situations, where you're thinking about your actress, your actor, your director, all that you're producer and all that stuff. Nine times out of ten, you just go with your instinctual, okay, who delivers? Yeah. And usually who delivers,

mainly like who shows up on time, who's not trouble. Yeah. Who can you trust? Yeah, who, yeah, exactly. Who can deliver? Consistent work, you know what I mean? Because, I mean, we can all attest that

some of our favorite geniuses can be troublesome. Yeah. So it's like, who's consistent? And, you know, a lot of times I'll hear of a project happening in the wings, and I'm like, let me see if I can get it. And then, oh, damn, Ricky got it again. But what kind of project does Ricky have the monopoly on, you feel like?

Well, Ricky's definitely the go-to for, like, the Grammys, definitely the Emmys. I mean, he, at the time when American Idol was hidden, he was that. I had to think, as a matter of fact, we were talking about Ricky. I think Ricky is the reason that Patrice is because Ricky, shout out to Sass Smith, who sings with me in foreign exchange. Right. She, her and Ricky have, like, worked together forever. And I think it was Ricky that put me in contact with Patrice.

Yeah. He's the guy. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, though, sometimes, and sometimes the trickle down theory works good because sometimes he has to say no to something. And you've done awards shows. You've music director of war shows. And that's where, like, then I'll get the call.

So usually, anything. anything you've seen me do that's notable, like this commercial, either a Commons Bastogne, Awards. Ricky Basson. But here's the thing. Anything that Adam Blackstone has done? Yeah, so now Adam is in the fold. It's because I had to say no to everything.

So, Jay-Z, Eminem, Rihanna, Mary, Janet, like right now, that it's the trickle-down thing. And so Adam's about to beat a new Ricky. Right? No, he's definitely, and that's the thing. It's really messing with me. I'm like, damn, I'm never getting my Emmy nomination. nominated for Emmy. Yes, that's crazy Adam nominated for Emmy.

I think you need to go back even further. Go ahead. Teach us, but truth. Because he will tell you, and so will Rachel tell you. Rachel, yeah. That somebody had to open the door for them. Who was it?

Who was it? Well, that might be me. I was thinking that because I was like, that might be me. Talk heavy. And you talk to, because I'm sure that, you know, you guys will have your opportunity. to speak to them,

should ask them about that because see, I'm on the other end of the phone hearing them ask me stuff. So let me do it like this. Let me say it like this. You started, the start of your question. How hard is it to get album room?

How hard is to get an album room? It's very, that's not an area that was open and understood that much in terms of what people did as music directors or what that was about. I pieced it together watching it because I was kind of fascinated at that. But it is one of those things where, at least in my feeling,

where your work has to speak so loudly in terms of what you can do that when there is an opportunity that you can't, that something will happen. I just have this feeling that when you're an artist and you're remaining true to your. your work and remaining true to your goal and true to your why, I call it, is going to be okay. You don't know how it's going to come, but it's going to be okay. You just be ready when the opportunity arises.

That's what I think. So the idea of music direction fell in my lap, but it fell in it this way, where Robert Townsend was doing, was going to do Hollywood Shuffle. I forgot. He was looking for a composer. Now, this was his first film,

and he didn't even know what he was supposed to be doing. So he just went around to the different agents who represented composers and goes down this list of gets to an agent that I had happened to just have signed with. Gets to my name and it's in pencil. I mean, I'm that new. Yeah.

And I'm the only name he recognized because of the records. Right. The remind me's, this, that. And he was a fan. So he said, oh, go with trees. And, of course, the agents are horrified

because it's like, she hasn't done anything. You don't know her. No, no, I do know. I know. I know her music. And so that's how that happened. So I did Hollywood Shuffle.

And he got five HBO comedy specials. And he called me to do the partners in crime. This is where those relationships and the building of those relationships happen. So I did five of those partners in crime. Then the guy who had been the producer of the NAAC Image Awards knew that the music director who was, for those awards, who was H.B. Barnum, who was Aretha's music director, was going to kind of pull back on doing the image.

Awards and it was suggested between Hamilton Cloud, who was the producer, and HB, we look for somebody else to take on the image awards. They were going to try to make them really bigger and special and da-da-da-da. So I had just done these five things and they called me to ask me if I were doing them. So I said yes. So I did the Image Awards. Now, after doing the HBO specials and seen in the capacity of being music director, And then doing those years of the Image Awards, one of the directors of those shows

was about to do the Emmys. We're talking a span of 10 years, though. And they had a falling out with the music director. And I guess during the falling out, I said, well, you know, hey, I'll get somebody else up in here to do it. And they called me. It was last minute and everything. But I had worked with him before on one of those other.

comedy specials. And so you talk about the elbow room. For me, it wasn't about that as much as it was that circumstances brought in certain opportunities and I was determined to crush it. How does one prepare for that? Like, do you have

to okay, my, now I feel so janky. Like my level of musical director is just like, all right, E minor, it's just, you know, it's five seconds.

And then whatever. But I'm certain that you had to notate all the notes. We didn't have that, you know, that software and stuff that we use now all the time. We didn't have that. So, no, you were writing by hand. You were preparing the music by hand. You know, I would sometimes, especially a big show, like Image Awards or Emmys. So you mentioned all the ones that I did.

And you say, Riggie had the thing locked up now, but he didn't at first. I see. So does that mean Questlove, you didn't do your research to find out that Bertrease was the one to put everybody on love? To be fair, to be fair, most people don't know that

because they didn't start looking. Now, this is the other part about what you're saying about Ricky. This is one of the things that I actually admire about him most. He figures out how he's going to get, let you know. It's him. He has figured out

a way to be able to kind of quantify all of the activities that go along with that and get it done and be able to say yes to a lot of things that are high profile and he's a very personable individual and he will go out of his way to make sure you know what was happening. At that time, I was about the, I just wanted to get the work done because I was having

to do so much of it myself. I did a lot of shows for BET. I did a lot of the, I did the Grammys the last few years that they used. a live orchestra to record anything. You know, I probably did some of the last ones that they did that. Well, now they do it in this room. That's right. Or somewhere, right.

And were you aware that you were a draw still? Like, even though you might have been quiet monks, when we would see your name in the credits, like people who were fan of the records, we'd be like, oh, okay. I remember seeing her name in the Hollywood Shuffle Crows. It was like, oh, right, whoa. I mean, I was aware of it. Only, I was aware of it, but I think, like I said,

I've had some happy circumstances to just happen on the way too while I was trying to go where I was trying to go. And everything seemed to help the other thing, the fact that I had an audience and a following, particularly among the African-American community, gave me the courage to be able to almost walk away from the recording side to focus as the opening, which was a little sliver,

opening happened for me to be able to really do the music direction thing because I could bring other musicians of color who never would get those calls to it. As the sensibility musically began to change, now you can relate to this, as a sensibilities in terms of what audiences wanted to hear

and the relationship between the shows that they watched and the music that accompanied that began to change and have more of the sensibilities of people of color and of different ethnicities. And certainly a rap. So, Patrice, we need you to write out this arrangement for Lil Yaddy.

You can call me and I can. And I, you know, but there's some music directors who, you know, they can't do that. So when I was able to speak all the different languages or at least go there and call in, you know, people, then we could get a whole bunch of work done. Okay, I have a great question for you. Now, we totally skipped her discography.

No, we didn't need to do it. We're going to go back to it. But listen, but now that you went there, okay, so this computer on my lap never leaves my side. And usually when I'm in situations like that, there's always an audible to be called. And usually director in my air is like, mirror, we need to queue up Julio Anglicius to all. the girls I loved before and I know I got 90 seconds. Like the way that the roots have mastered, hearing it and knowing exactly what the, but without the technology of you playing for all 30 of your musicians and your orchestra that

you're about to call an audible or something, not knowing they have the ability to improvise or whatever, how would that happen? Would there ever be situations like that where you get the last minute? Last second. Yeah. But things were changing. Even the way the directors direct changed. When they had access to being able to not plan

and to say stuff at the last minute and watch people scrambling and watch it happen, you know, then they took advantage of that. So now the audible becomes just another thing that you have to have in your tool chest. Another thing that you have to do. Back in the day, those shows were planned.

to the 10th of a second in terms of what was going to happen. And you had to have a plan so that you would be ready for something that might happen spontaneously. Now, the difference was everybody had a plan and everybody knew what they were supposed to do and you had to be ready to deliver. But if it did take that little slight left, could the music director and the people that were there respond?

And how are you going to respond right now. So that balancing act did start to happen as a technology allowed for more of it to shift into last minute let's just go by the seat of our pants. Now it's like this. Now you've got people who are coming on who are playing in television orchestras and stuff like that. They might read music. They might not. They might understand. But they understand concept because somebody's going to say, oh, give me something that's

sounds like Coldplay meets Bruno Mars right now. And everybody will go, yeah, okay, so your oral vocabulary. And the musicians that are on TV now seem to have a very wide palette in terms of a certain amount of oral vocabulary that they can call in to at least get you through it for the 30 or 90 seconds. But when you had more people, a 50-piece orchestra or something like that, you can't depend on everybody having heard. I haven't heard that. They might not have ever heard. So before we wrote a lot. We had to write a lot.

And the arrangers and music directors who had the vocabulary had to be able to translate, okay, you're supposed to be playing for Gladys Knight and then you're going to play for print. You need to translate what it is so that it's seamless. So, okay, gun to your head. If, why? Why don't put a gun to three special. Because I know or assume that you're well versed in sight reading on the spot.

And the ability to improvise. Most musicians I know can't chew gum and walk at the same time. usually like I can't read for I mean I can read but you know no one's going to have time for me to be like give me 15 minutes one knee on the two in you and all that stuff so if you gun to your head come on if you have to lose one of the two abilities what would you would you rather keep your natural feel or keep the technical keep the technical reading okay You put it in my face and I'll play it. For 2018. For 2018. Boy, that is a loaded, loaded question. Are people even reading?

I have two, I have two, kind of two answers to that. First of all, there was a time when you would have to maybe choose. In 2018, you don't have to choose. it's about do you want the insurance that you'll be able to do music for your career till you can't do it anymore

and when you want to do something real bad I think that it behooves you to find every way possible to be able to ensure that you would never have to do anything else now you don't have to necessarily get all you can't get all the skills together at one time.

Nobody's asking you to do that. But I think that sometimes people fall on and default to what's the easiest for them to do, and they stay there. And that's okay. But I would wonder what would happen if they would allow what they do really well to get them in a position to be able to then, as they're doing what they do really well, be able to use part of that income and part of that, movement and part of that desire to continue to do it,

to then also over here be working on the thing that they don't do as well. See, we get caught in this thing of like if I don't do this, somebody thinks less of me, you know, you're good at what you're good at. And if you've got talent and you've worked on that, I think that you should go with it. But it also behooves you that if you want to stay with it and contribute, that there may be other ways if you would learn certain things that would allow for you to be able to keep it moving.

There's more tools in your toolbox. More tools in your toolbox. And I think that's an individual choice. But I was told, at least when I was a kid, my dad was like, yo, you're not going to get the work if you don't learn how to read. So for him, it was like, you've got to go to Curtis or Berkeley or, you know, wherever, Juilliard, that sort of thing.

And I didn't do that. I cheated and just went straight to a record deal. but I mean for you if you're okay if you're if you get the call for the Emmys

is it would you rather pull a guitarist that has amazing feel that can at least get by on chord charts or whatever

or for you to be in that a high attention environment you got to read on site well I think the first question is really to define what the medium is asking of you. See, to do the Emmy's Awards and the requirement for that is different than to do Jimmy Fallon.

It's different. You want music. That's the only common denominator. The rest of it is that it's different. The Emmy Awards, you're going to play 150 television show themes. They're going to range from. Mission Impossible to Friends. You might have masterpiece theater thrown in there.

You might have anything thrown in there. And you're going to record them. You're going to record them all so the winner is they press the button and go. And then you're going to have all the music there so that whoever did win, when the person's talking too long, you can play them off. That's not the time for somebody to sit there and go one end and two-e-end. Okay. That ain't the time.

So you cast who you call on the basis of the end result and what is required of you. In your show, it's so fluid, and it's beautiful because it's so fluid. You guys have a thing, you have a feel, you have a sound, you have the responsibilities. There are certain ones that are laid out that you know you got to do every night. But then there are other things that if it goes this way or this way, where you can turn on a dime in a show like that. It's because of the nature of the show.

And in that case, it might not be as necessary. And you guys have spent so much time together. Wait, guys. Side note, when she said Jimmy Fallon to myself, I was like, holy shit, she knows what I do for a living. I saw it in your face. You got to pay attention. And when it's good, you want to know.

Who's that? I was going to say, do you watch that? The babies, like, are you watching, you know, the folks like Amir and Adam Blackstone? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Because remember, I'm still, I'm in education now. Yeah, true. So the kids who are going to school, there is this balance.

And this is getting back to what I was saying. You don't have to choose because now there are at least some places. Not every music school. You got to find the one that supports what you think you want to do. But there are places for people to go now to be able to develop. that skill set and that awareness to be able to go from one side of it to the other side flawlessly, if they so choose, to learn that it's not this or this or this, but it's one big thing. I'm a better musician if I even know what a producer does. I'm a better

participant in a band or an orchestra if I have a sense of what the music director is dealing with, and I'm a better music director because I know what the musicians have to do. In other words, these are skills that kind of we're codependent and you want to be able to see how different people do it in different ways and develop ways to be able to do it that allow for you

to produce, to get it done. How big is your database right now as far as, are you the person, are you the bridge that knows off the top 10 guitar players? 11 good keyboard players.

Oh, that guy really plays French horn well. Guys are a great engineer. No. You're not, are you a people? Are you a people person, musician? I'm one of the people that may know some. But what we learned to do with myself, Greg Phelan Games, Ricky Minor, Rachew,

we learned to call on each other. You need something and you got something to do and you need a certain kind of information or a certain kind of individual to be able to help you get it done, then you can call your peers. This is why the community is so important. You can call on your peers, or you should be able to,

call on your peers to say, yo, and without it being a situation of any kind of other agenda, that's what you're trying to avoid. But you want to be able to call on your peers and say, I'm doing such and such and I need. See, that's what the old school had together. They had that on lockdown. So we're not many of us involved in the TV world.

So they really will depend on each other. And when you come and you're up there on the podium and there's another one on us up there on the podium, you're going to play your butt on. That's before they created this term called hating. You're going to make it work and you're going to support what's happening and people would do that on the bandstand. You know, and that's a part of the heritage of our

music of all the music that we do that it's survival and our way of being able to communicate with each other came from like an unspoken thing of like hey we're trying to make this happen you need to support each other because meanwhile I'm thinking I'm like

is this where are there any other sisters I mean I was thinking women period but I was like in this community is are there just women that I'm not seeing? Of music directors? Yeah very few very few. Well there's Michelle now who's that? Michelle and Dago Channel

Michelle is doing Queen Sugar Oh that's right Queen Sugar yeah And she did disappearing acts years ago Yeah she did do it There's Wendy Melvoin

From a live From a live television type standpoint Oh That's what Patrice does Who is the Who is the Well you know

There's not that much Live television To do it right Unfortunately And I think that that's a problem Because I think that there are More women Who are

Who are capable and have some of the skills that it would take. Such a boss position. It was pretty cool. Okay, now, we, that was literally just one question. One side. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

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On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell.

Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, And dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I would like to know, how did you interact or run into Pam Brown, who was the team coordinator for Soul Train? Okay, I wish it was a beautiful, sexy story, but it's not. All it is, I was over, boom, did y'all say teen coordinator? I was at a park. For some reason, she was called the teen coordinator.

She was a teen coordinator. Wow. I went to a park. I was at a park. I don't even know why I was there. But I was at a park, you know, high school, hanging with your friends, you know. And this bus pulled up and she and Don Corninez get out and they talked about this show that they were bringing from Chicago. called Soul Train

and that they were going to shoot it out here and they would come by this same park next Saturday and if you wanted to go over to the television station just bring a change of clothes we'll pick you up here we will bring you back here and we're going to all you got to do is

have fun and dance on the show so what was that like I'm going to be on TV like what was it? I mean you know me you remember I wanted to be in there. Right. I'm like, some kind of way from a long time ago. So I was like, this is actually very cool. And the show was, we didn't have a lot of detail about what to do.

They just said, come, bring a change of clothes, and dance. And that's what we did. So, but, you know, I'm looking around at all the other stuff that's happening. Because, you know, I'm saying, wow, this is, this is stuff going on in here. There's people in here. And we would go, come and go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like that. And so I was on the show. I did maybe five or six of them, I think,

because they would shoot a lot on like one week when they would do a lot. So I was like maybe on five or six of those shoots, which meant that I was on quite a few shows. Yeah. And saw quite a few artists come on that show. I was going to say, and at that moment, you're such a, to see an unknown Al Green

and Bill Withers on, she's on the episode of, you remember the Dead President's episode where Al's doing a, oh yeah, in the, With the sling? Not with the cast. He's wearing the hot pants.

Oh, the hot pants. Okay. The hot pants out on the purse. Yes. The pleather hot pants. You get to ask your own question. Well, they would choose. That's what I was wondering.

So, I don't know if I was looking particularly cute that day or what, but they said, why don't you ask the question? Wow. Okay. And I guess I got chosen a lot to do stuff. I had the little scramble board one time. Yeah, you did. And things like that.

Anyway, Pam would then, you know, if you do a few of these, she gets to know people. Right. Who's who's who? And it was just amazing that then later, years later, I'm back on the show as a guest to do, you know, forget me now. That's the thing. In all of your appearances on the show, usually Don will acknowledge or chide or a sort of like joke about like your days as a soul train dance or whatever. But in your four or five appearances, you guys never discussed that.

He never talked about that. That's right. That's true. Does he know? I think he did. But, you know, I would see him in other places. See, by this time, I'm still in high school, but I'm starting to play in town. So he used to go out and just go to a club and something like that's what you would do.

And he may have seen me do something else. And I think he really did appreciate musicianship from the standpoint of, you know, players. You know, it's from Chicago, so, you know, jazz was a big deal. So he may have seen me in a slightly different light. And Pam Brown, she did know. She did know that I played and stuff like that,

some kind of way, I don't know. But anyway, those days on slow train were really, really magical, you know, told me a lot, gave me a lot of pride in our music for one. And then certainly kind of helped me to understand sort of the way that television and radio could coexist as a means by which we would get very important information, particularly that of our image to each other. Radio was the way. I was going to say, how did you sign your first record deal? Yeah, exactly.

I was like, let's get your record. Yeah, get the record. Okay, so in 1972, I was in this, I was my last year of high school. And like I said, I went to an all-black high school, Locke High School. And we played a lot of Battle of the bands type of things a jazz band did because, you know, you win a trumpet, you win a kick drum pedal, you know. So we did a whole bunch of these. And one of them was up in monolitan. California and the winner of this high school band competition a band competition and a combo

competition so the winner of this band competition or combo competition the prize was to appear at the Monterey Jazz Festival which remains today one of the largest you know jazz festivals now our band didn't win but my combo did so we got to play on this festival and it was after that that record companies who were doing that kind of music were interested in me signing. Now, I'm going to set the environment a little bit. There was an artist named Bobby Humphrey. Yeah, flu.

Who played flu. And so all the companies now are looking to, oh, we need that answer to that. They need their answer to that. Except Bobby Humphrey. And so we had a great set and everything went really, really well. companies were really looking. Now, I wasn't interested. And this is another difference of the fact that I didn't feel like I was ready.

I was going to go to college. You know, I'm still trying to figure it all out in terms of what I really want to do. And the whole idea of doing an album was really daunting to me. Remember? Because my album collection had Joe Henderson in it and Miles Davis in it and Ella in it and all these people in it. And I'm like, nah, I'm not ready for that just yet. But there was a company, Fantasy Records. They had a subsidiary label prestige.

And it was a short deal, just a three-album deal. I had complete creative control just to, you know, we just want you to do your thing. And I said, okay, and I needed money for school. So I said, okay. How did you get your afro so tight on the cover of the first album? A perlusion? Yeah, yeah, the perlusion.

And how the preludes an afro was an art. You had to really work at. Work at it a lot. But, yeah, you know. How did you work with Reggie Andrews? Well, Reggie Andrews was one of the three music directors at, music teachers at Locke High School. It was his first year of teaching.

He had just graduated from college. It was his first year of teaching. So there were three people, Don Dustin, Frank Harris, and Reggie Andrews. And see, Reggie was only a little bit older than us. Okay. So we all could relate to him very, very well from the standpoint of he handled all of the jazz

and contemporary music in terms of our training. And he was really indispensable to all of our understanding about these different kinds of musical, music lives that you could lead. So one day he's bringing, you know, he goes to the club and he tells Lenny White, listen, man, I'm going to bring you down to the high school. This was before jazz was institutionalized too.

Come on, Dad, and go pick him up, and they come. Herbie Hancock came. Minnie Mopin, came. And then he knew Maurice White, and they needed a place to rehearse. And he said, well, once you come over to the high school after hours and rehearsing the multipurpose,

room and we helped schlep their instruments in and out and got them up on the stage so that they could play. That's how I met all of them. I met all of them, Earth Marine Fire when I was in high school and they couldn't pay for the use of the room, so they played my high school prom. Wow. That's crazy. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What did they play? What was this? And that was the band with Jessica Cleves and Ronnie Law. Oh, wait a minute. And Roland Batista. Matisa, oh man. Earth went and fire played your high school prom. Yes, sir.

So Philip and Larry Dunn and all of them, Al McKay and, of course, Maurice, and I think playing drums at that time, Ralph Johnson was playing drums at the time. And these people became like people we would see, you know, on a biweekly basis as they would come by to try to rehearse. And that summer, Mighty Mighty Came Out. and he blew up. Right. Right after the prom.

Right after the prom. Right. That's what it was. So, you know, these kinds of, you talk about relationships and you talk about being in certain kinds of environments and a sense of community and helping each other. I saw that over and over and over and over. How did you make the transition from playing at that time to like composing and writing, like your own songs?

What was that like? I think I was always doing it. because for me, the playing and the composing was kind of all meled together. I didn't have maybe as many opportunities to put it out there, but I had all kinds of stuff because in the little groups that I was in,

I was always writing or always arranging something. I had a little band, you know, during our college days called Red Beans and Rice. And that was a lot. We made a little money playing house parties and things like this. And in that band was a bass player named Charles Meeks,

who ultimately went on to work with Chuck Mangione and Josie James, who ended up singing with George Duke for many years. And lots of different people came through that band and we worked and made a little money. And we played cover tunes, which was a great way to learn about arranging and stuff like that. Oh, that cooling the gang line, what? You know, I would learn so much by doing this kind of stuff.

So the writing and the arranging and all of that sort of kind of found its own. the platform through the plane. And then learning about jazz and learning the history of the music and learning about improvisation because that is spontaneous composition. When you were putting out your prestige records, did you tour at all?

What was your life like at that time when you first started releasing records? I was in school. So I didn't really tour. I did a few dates during the summer a little bit, but I didn't really do too much. I know. I remember I got this call from John McLaughlin Waflin. He wanted me to join Mahavishnu.

Oh, wow. You serious? I said, okay, can I... Can I think about it? And I talked to my parents and they were like, oh, no, no, no, no. You know, so I'm in school and he was so kind and nice, you know. Let me find out that this prestige period was just like, look, I just need the college money. And you're just very casualable about like, you know, you know.

It was a platform and an idea of being able to do that, but I was always a little shy about being put out there too soon, half-baked. There was a whole bunch of stuff I didn't know. So how do you go from that to sing? Oh, well. Yeah, let me, because the three albums are so distinctively different. Yes.

Like, the first one was straighthead jazz? Yeah. Now, with the, I know the last, last one was before the dawn or? The last one was called Shouted Out. Shouted Out. Okay, well, I was going to say Sworded Your, the last cut. That's it. Sojourn.

I'm sorry, my R's are horrible. Okay, before I knew that, Reggie produced it or co-produced it, it had such a Mazzell Brothers feel to it that I was asking,

I was wondering if, well, you mentioned Bobby Humphrey already, like, was it the label asking you guys to switch each time around? No, no, I just had all that freedom. And I was into so many different kinds of music.

And, you know, to this day, I look back and I said, that could never happen today. Where a record company would allow your expression to continue to morph into different things and allow for you to document where you were at the time or what you were feeling at the time in that way, without being that concerned about whether or not there was going to be a hit. But this was a jazz label and they were accustomed. to, I mean, the other people on the label, they had Stanley Turrentine on that label, Joe Henderson was on that label. They had Cannibal Adderley on that label. Flora Perrine was on that label.

So there were different takes on the music, and they were accustomed to people kind of moving and blah, blah, blah. The overarching label was owned by Saul Zense, and they had Cretans Clearwater and people like that on the other side of the road. They were good, right. So they were always experiencing. experiment and stuff. So they were kind of into that. That could not happen today where you could do three distinctively different albums and everybody was okay.

Okay. So usually on this show, something that means something like in a sentimental value to us means like everything. Usually the artist is just like, yeah, I wrote that in two minutes. Can you give us any stories about before the door? I did not write that in two minutes. I'm going to say that. Thank you for reason.

Because that for... For hip-hop hit, yeah. For us, like hip-hop heads, like that means a lot. Like, PAS,

you remind me and all that. But what was the process of writing that? I mean, you made it a title cut, so obviously, it must have meant something to you. I think that some of the...

Some of your audience would relate to this, you know, that time of a day is, I don't know, there's just something about it that where things seem to be at peace. Everything seems to be just so mellow, so peaceful, just before the day breaks. And if you've had issues during the day that follow you into, into you're trying to get to sleep at night and you wake up and you have just that early, early, early, early morning,

it kind of, there's something about it that settles you. I still work when I'm under pressure or a deadline. That seems to be my most productive part of the day. When you think everyone is sleep, when you think everybody needs to sleep, well, man, get on this. The alpha state. The alpha state. The alpha state.

And the rest of everyone else is like the rest of the world is, you know, you have that solitude to yourself. It's just something special about that. So the mood of that was what I was trying to capture and at the same time there's a certain kind of balance between a certain sophistication and soulfulness that when you are operating with just again that area of your life where you just feel is your truth that's that was my interpretation at that time of what that felt like And I loved the idea of being able to, you know, again, going back to my idea of arranging and orchestration,

having just those few instruments to work with trombone, alto flute, and flugelhorn as the different textures and as almost like a choir against this rhythm section that is very, very quiet. And then we hit this group and we just stay there. It means everything to us. Thank you. So what was the transition to electro records? Because, I mean, digging hip-hop producers, digging in the crates, that's how I discovered your fantasy output. But I actually, I mean, hanging up was the first thing that I first heard when I was like seven.

And I thought that was your debut that whole time. That was like, I sang one song on those fantasy records. A song called Let Your Heart Be Free. And I played bass on it And the harmonies on that Man listen Yeah Yes

So my deal was over My three albums were up And Electra was very interested A guy named Don Maisel Was about to start A different A smaller label

Within the Electra label That focused on music That was Had jazz sensibility but also had commercial and pop sensibilities. So I said, oh, that's interesting. So he wanted, he said, now the things that like this, will you do more of that kind of stuff where there's some vocal?

I don't want you to minimize the improvisation aspect of it or anything like that. But the grooves are so strong, do you think you can, oh, yeah. You know, that's kind of what I was hearing and where I was at that time anyway. Did you have any report with a Was this the Krasnow period? No, this was before that.

This was the Joe Smith period. He was present then. Still? Still? He was then. Krasnow came in, though, during the time that I was there on my last album. Oh, okay. Krasnown was there like the late 70s or early 80s.

We're referring to Bob Krasnows. So, yeah. So Hang It Up was the first single off of that first album for a lot. Electra. Yeah. And, you know, I was influenced by Parliament Funkadelic and all of that. So them gang vocals or having multiple vocals, even though it was a different feel, was very appealing to me because I was always a little skittish about doing solo singing.

I did it because that was the way, you know, I would sing as a means by which I would get my point across. But in terms of singing, I was like, no. But, you know. Okay. Since we're in 1979, there's a question you can finally settle for me after all these years of wondering. And again, you know, Avid Reader, Ride on Magazine. So that's where all my information came from. But I'm led to believe that your involvement in the second Prince album was a lot more.

more than what you were hinted at, not even credited for, but hinted at. And then again, like, you know, information has come to me as an eight-year-old. And again, it's right on magazine. The source of all truth. One of my first conversations with him was actually about you and asking, you know, he said that, you know, Patrice gave me a lot of advice and da-a-di-a-a-di-a. Could you describe what exactly what you... your relationship with Prince was,

your working relationship with Prince because I guess like either did he want to put you in the band or wanted you to do his, you taught him how to program his synthesizers or something? Like, what was the story? Okay. Load a question, I'm sorry.

You're coming with the right ones though, that's fine. Our common denominator was that the engineer of one of my albums told me about him after Stevie played all these instruments on his records we all thought that that was just so amazing

but many of us were multi-instrumentalists and so that gave us permission to at least do that we might not play every instrument but we would play more than the thing that we were known to do we didn't have any fear about doing that anymore And the technology would allow us to do that with us being able to overdub and things like this. So Tommy Vicari is his name. It's a very well-known engineer and producer.

And at that time, he says there's somebody that I have recently come across that I'm going to be working on a project with them. And I really would love for the two of you to meet. I said, okay. So he called him on the phone and we talked. Now, I didn't know at the time that Prince already was aware of, you know, me. But he was new and I hadn't heard. So we talked some. And Tommy said, well, I'm going to be, you know, working with him.

And I said, oh, this is great. I'd love to, you know, have a chance to meet him. So we did finding me, but, you know, he was not a man of many words, especially in that first meeting. Well, then he had, then stuff came out. And it was like, things were happening with him. And I said, oh, okay, I get it now. And we had other, our paths crossed on some of these TV shows, like American Bandstand and things like that.

And, you know, his guard kind of went down enough that he really wanted to talk. And so he used to call me. And we would talk and he would ask me technical questions sometimes. How did you do, what pedal were you using on the clavonet to get that sound? What did you do what this? how did you do this, this, this? And when he would come to town, we would try to find a way to be able to meet.

And I remember that the one distinct day, I went to a hotel to pick him up, and this was back in the trench coat and diaper days. Dirty mine, yes, sir. Oh, God. And we were going back to, I lived at my parents' house because on the bottom floor,

it was a double-level house, and on the bottom, on my stuff and we were supposed to be going back to my house to to play you know so we could jam and stuff and he got a call and we didn't take him back we didn't we didn't get that far but the idea was that we developed really a relationship from the standpoint of just being again in support of what each other was doing and a willingness to kind of share and as eccentric we'll call it as he could have been. When I would be with him, he was very down-earthered, very, very real because the music was

our common bond and our association with one another started there. It became friends, but it started there. He spoke the language. And then years past, you know, and he just, he blew, now, on the album that you ask about, I know, I remember that I, he asked me to do, he asked me to write out the string arrangement for, I think the song was called Baby. And then there was another album where he asked me about a piano solo that I had done on one of my albums. So he was studying the prestige stuff?

You know? Wow. He was listening to something because he would ask about specific stuff. Sometimes how did you do this and what does that? And what makes up this chord and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, we would talk like that. And then I would hear his stuff and, you know, he would be, oh, M.G. You know, it's like stuff going on.

It was just really, it was great. He had big influence with Sly, and Sly was, you know, from San Francisco. So everybody in California was like, that was one of our game changers, you know, in terms of the music. And he just asked a lot of questions about that. And he liked jazz, and he was all in all this different kind of stuff and just would ask a lot of questions. Then we didn't see each other for a while. And then when Purple Rain was about to come out, we happened to be in New York at the same time and happened to be staying at the same hotel.

How he knew that, I don't know. But he called. And I said, well, where are you? And he said, downstairs. Of course. And I said, well, where downstairs? Can you be a little more specific? I'm in the restaurant.

There's no one here. Can you come down? So I said, okay. So I went down to the restaurant. He had the restaurant. It was closed. We sat and he was really nervous about Purple Rain. he was like he says you know

I've kind of put it all in the line on this one I said well did you do the best you possibly good he said yeah I said well then let it go because there's this song I said because it's on you know it's going to be what it's going to be I mean it's a new medium for you I'm sure the music is stellar

you put your heart and soul into it and that's about all you can do is done so let it you know just now enjoy the ride whatever that is and, you know, I went to the premiere and I said, what was he worried about? You know.

So we had that kind of rapport and then we had another one of those kinds of moments. The year he did, he opened the Grammys with Beyonce. Oh, 2004. Did you remember that year? Yeah, I was there.

That was my first one. What? That was my first Grammy Awards. That was an awesome show. So wait, were you part of that production? Yes. And Claire Fisher, too? So let me tell you what happened.

Yeah, Claire was involved. Claire Fisher, that was one of the last things. I didn't know that. So let me tell you what happened then. Yo! So you remember Prince and Beyonce did a killer opening for the show. And the way that the Grammys worked because it's live, they rehearsed the entire show top to bottom.

Then they reset it and run it live. So they were rehearsing. And the producer, you know, there was some pre-recorded in the first. his segment. Yeah. And the director and producer came to me and said, you have got to go and convince him to do it live, live, just to do everything live.

And they had been rehearsed for a week, and it was slamming. And I said, well, was there a reason that you would want to do it live, live, live? And they said, yes, because it'll just be live, blah, blah, blah. And I'm saying to myself, it's on television. I was about to say, I don't even know what y'all are talking about. It's like 50, 50. Like, just play the whole thing live.

don't have any pre-recorded happening, no pro tools, doubling, nothing that is enhancing. It makes it better for TV at home. Yeah. But, you know, so anyway. I'm cool for y'all.

I said, well, I'll talk to him. So I went to him and I said, okay, they're asking me to, for you to consider doing this live completely, to not use any of the Pro Tools and things and like that. What do you think I should do? He says,

so I look around for any hidden microphones. Because he's just looking at you. Took my stuff off. I said, look, they're going to run this show down. You and Beyonce are opening the show. They're going to run this show down. Everything's going to be fine. They're set up in the booth.

They're set up and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're going to run this down. And then they're going to run this down. And then they're going to. reset and the next time we see you is going out. Nobody has rehearsed it that way. Nobody has rehearsed it that way. Cameraman hasn't rehearsed it that way.

Sound man hasn't rehearsed it that way. The engineer who's mixing in your stuff, your guys haven't rehearsed it that way. He says, I understand. I said, okay. Now I said, what I can do is I'll go out in the house. And I'll make sure that the house is banging. So the other tens of millions of people will feel that energy because the house will feel that energy. But the sound will be pristine going out.

And I think that needs to be the priority. He says, yes, I feel the same way. So I said, okay, so I went back to the directors that probably now never work again. And I said, you know, he's just not feeling that. so maybe we should go what we know is going to work and they said okay but that was one of those times

I didn't know a difference this is my point right is like what would have been different is the fact that everyone who was prepared to do it a certain way would have suddenly not been prepared and the first note of that show that they were opening

would have potentially created a disaster and it turns out of It turns out that it's one of the best performances ever. Yes. Everybody knew exactly what needed to happen, and it was amazing. And it was electric. They did a great job.

And, you know, but I say that, I share that story, again, to indicate the idea of respect and to indicate the idea of sharing. The agenda was to come off killing. How you get there, and your methodology has to be organized, so that you can come off killing. Not the ego of somebody who feels like they just want to decide just to be able to say and they did it live.

At whose expense, you know? So again, that community, protecting each other. You use the word electric and it reminded me of something else. You did SNL with Prince in 89. Can you give us a recollection of that experience? You? Yeah. That was the performance of electric chair.

on SNL. There was the 15th anniversary. It was as an L. You didn't know that? Huh? Oh, look at him. I've never seen this. How did I miss that?

Wow. How did I miss that? I don't know, but she's on a piano that says her name on the side. He called and asked if I would do. That wasn't rosy? No, I'll show it to you after. Yeah, I'll show it after. What?

Yeah. So, as though, he called and asked if I'm going to play the 15th anniversary show of SNL and Batman was coming out and I'm going to do electric chair and I want you to do it with me. Okay. Fine. So he says, well, we're going to rehearse

and we're going to have 11 days of rehearsal. I said, well, how many songs are you doing on the show? One? He said, one. We have that rehearsal tape, don't we? I think we do, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

I have an audio. Was it done at S-I-R? the rehearsal tapes? The rehearsal tapes? Because I don't know. I think we're at Paisley Park for part of it. Wherever it is,

I have at least 14 complete in row. I wish the audience can see the swiftness that boss bill is going through his bag

because it's hard to try to tell you y'all I've never seen that. That song. Yeah, we're collectors of Princess rehearsal. Well, I mean, the thing is it's just the science,

The science of constantly rehearsing intrigues me more than anything. So. Yeah. Yeah. They rehearsed that song for 11 days. I think I came in on day nine. Wow. I mean, I was like, dude, I can't leave.

I got things to do. But he said, okay. So I came in on the ninth day, I think, something like that. And I rehearsed it, you know, that day and the next day. And then we went to New York. and you run it down Oh my Jesus, this is you. So he had my name put on the piano.

That's so dope. Which was like, wow, this is crazy. And I think the band was in transition then. Yeah. So I don't know if this was, you know, looking back now, looking back on it, I don't know if this was like a lightweight audition. I don't know what this was. But the idea, though, that he did call me to participate in that

and that he felt that it was a big deal and a big enough deal than he would want my name on the piano I thought was, wow, this ain't no short name. And yeah, Amir, we do have that. We do have the rehearsal. I was going to say, we have the rehearsal. From the night of the show.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's going to tell us. Yeah. Wow. That's all you going to do? We can't clear it? Oh, that's, damn.

I thought this day was clearing stuff a lot lately. Not that. Not this. No. I don't even know. The state will let me talk about this. It was amazing, though. It was amazing.

And see, it's a different situation. It's different when you know someone and you see their process from afar. But having been there at the short rehearsal, during that short, you know, time that I was there, this gave me a little, even additional insight into his detail, into his listening to every part and every line, into an understanding that so much of what we saw that looked so effortless and spontaneous was built out of the security of knowing that everything was in place. Yeah. You know, it was, it was great to be able to, to witness that.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wadam.

My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent.

He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah. It would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Possessed.

Oh. Is that? No, I'll be, you guys. Okay. What's your question? No, no. I was just moving to possess because we should tell. about your canon yeah um well a man pizzazz okay what was the settle for my love settle for my love

that's weird it's always the hit but then there's always the join that we really love yeah well you know here's the thing back in the day i mean when i was a kid album it was about you you would go and you would buy the 45 but you better listen to that b side yes yeah yeah because something was usually happening there i told smoky robinson one time i said dude you could release a whole album of B size. And so, you know, what we became accustomed to was, you know, don't sleep. Your entire presentation, your whole album needs to have those moods in it and things in it that allow for everybody to come to it because you never know, you know, what's going to really

resonate with somebody. Haven't you heard? That was pizzazz, right? Haven't you heard was pizzazz? That was pizzazz. Yes. How did you feel about when that, it kind of got resurrected by Jean-Aid? with groove thing.

Great. Okay. Good. How many say? I felt great when... Did I name with you a thing? Yeah, I was going to say

Kirk Franklin. Not Curfranc. Oh, yes. Greater. Yeah. Which one, Kirk friendly used? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And took the whole string intro. Now, here's the thing about the string intro. Okay. See, most people didn't know. I wrote that.

I would just assume. Strings can be funky. That's what I said too. But they didn't, but typically, in those records, you know, they didn't get to do that. But I know they can do that. So that's, that's what, so that's, you know, I would, I would add, you know, I tell my students sometimes that I purposely hide the vegetables in the dessert.

You don't always know the thing that somebody is contributing or the lesson that's happening through the particular activity that they're doing. But later, when you dissect it a little bit and you, you. find out other stuff, you realize, wow, what an influence that had. Now, here was the thing. I was very, obviously, the Jean-Aid version that they did was awesome. And I was really elated at Kirk Franklin, but you know what elated me as much as what they did with the song?

The fact that they used a string intro. Because you worked so hard on it. It's like, wow. So, you know, little things like that come up and let you know that. You know, people are listening. They don't always understand all of the details, but they feel it. And so, yeah, that was awesome.

How many times we settled for your love remade? Music did it, right? Well, the Harry's did it. A lot of people have done it, and it's been sampled a lot. It is one of the sample requests that we get the most often. Oh, man, speaking of samples, giving it up is giving up.

Talk about that song. I love that. Oh, wow. I wanted to do a duet on the record and I asked Stevie to do it with me and he we couldn't make the dates hook up and I was like oh man okay

but I had previously met DJ Rogers I loved his voice and his delivery and he was a friend of Reggie Andrews so I said well then maybe DJ will do it and he came in and slated. I was laughing so hard most of the time just because he was just so

soulful that I'm surprised that my laughter didn't end up on part of the record. I could hardly sing I was just Cheshire Cat, you know, smile and it was great. Can I ask you about these beads? Come on.

Yes. It was an era. You know what I'm saying? And you held down. The beads and the braids. The beads and braids. And the consciousness. Stephen and Patrice.

That was the king and queen. And they're getting peaches. Peaches? Peaches. Peaches and her. She had done so. So was it a conscious decision? And then like, I just, I just want to, and it's a process.

We all know that this is not something easy to do to keep it fresh. As an artist and having. And you need a good chiropractor. Because on the other cover, you kind of leaned because it looked like it was, yeah. Yeah. Well, it was something that we decided to do. I wanted braids because I thought that they looked really beautiful

and I thought that it was another way to and I had a fro for so long and I thought it was another way to be able to kind of express a certain pride and a certain consciousness and things like that and to be able to do it in some way that was different and then the lady that was braiding my hair Subongalee Bradley West is her name and she said

well, you know, she was going through these books, you know, of African folklore and styles and things like that. And she said, let's try some beads. I said, okay. So we did some beads and it became like a thing. And it was really a beautiful way to adorn these braids and sort of frame a very natural feeling, but to do something that, you know, just added that thing. That's some possessed. And also as an artist and a friend old girl who wore braids, when you started getting into the jam or whatnot, like how was you maintaining and not slapping yourself?

Did your braids end up on a cornerstone? You need to choreograph. How you were going to do all of that? It was like a slow every time. You know, yeah. But, no, it was a style that became really, really, really popular. And other people started doing it and it was really cool. And I enjoyed it for a long, long time.

It was good, easy to maintain, you know, on the road. It always looked nice. and, you know, it was cool. Thank you. I was always, I always wanted to ask you, Ready Freddie Washington. That is like, forget me, I mean, that's one of the top five baselines of all the times.

I agree. Wait, can I ask about that, though? Okay, so it's in F-Shart, I believe. Yes, correct. I know that most base players will choose E because it's an open E. but that was a very odd transition. To the bridge.

Like why? Yeah, why. And that key? Why didn't he just take, like, like why did he just not take a bass solo in F sharp? The key of the song. Because he's friends.

Eddie. That didn't throw you off. No, I done it. I was like, oh. We're there. Oh, you just said, go in there and do anything with these four bars? No, no, here's what I'm. I'll tell you story.

Because there's a story. Yes. Okay, so Freddie is from Oakland, California, a little north of here. And he had been, you know, playing bass and coming around when he would, when I was up there for sessions and stuff. And we had mutual friends and we finally met. And I heard him play. And I said, man, he's really good. So he decided he wanted to live in Los Angeles

because he wanted to do sessions. So he called, you know, I used to do some gigs and occasionally call him from the Bay Area to come and play, you know, a little gig, a weekend or something like that. So we became good friends and he would stay at my parents' house and stuff like that. So then one day he just called and he says, okay, I'm about done up here. I really want to come down there, really try to get in on the recording session

scene. Ask your mama, can I live on her couch for a. Ask your mama. Please. And so my parents were pretty progressive, you know. I said, this is going to stretch it, but okay. And they said, oh, yes, Freddie can stay down here in our little guest room for a little bit. So he did. He came down. So we played every day, as you can imagine. We played every day. And sometimes he would play drums and I would play bass. Sometimes he would play keyboard and I would play drums. Sometimes he would play bass, you know, and we had a little four track. So we would record everything. And one day, he was home, and I had just come from the market or something like that.

And I'm hearing this baseline. That one. And I'm saying, whoa, what's that? And he said, I don't know, just something. And so I said, well, let's record it. So recorded it. And that's how the chorus and everything kind of came together. I said, well, this baseline is so fierce.

Cord-wise, it doesn't need. Yeah, a whole lot. Uh-uh. That's the vibe. That's the movement right there. So we were doing this and as we continued to play it, we said, well, it needs something, but it doesn't need to go far,

but it needs to go away from this and come back. And there you have it. I was like, okay. What role did, it was Charles Mims. What role did he play in producing, like how to, in terms of taking it from just a four-trash, demo to a fully produced song. Well, Charles, I had known since high school.

He went to Locke High School also. Really great pianists. So you hired your high school, because Gerald also played in your band, right? Yeah, Gerald. Is that him playing the solo? Forget me now, yeah, that's him. Now, check it out. That is Gerald's first recorded solo ever on record.

Wow. And that is a first take. Wow. Wait, is that also Gerald doing the Hollywood Chuffle theme? That's Ernie Watts. Okay. That's Ernie Watts. Wow. Really? Oh, Ernie Watts?

Really? Okay, okay. Who taught Gerald, who'd come over to the school and teach Gerald. Did he play with, did he play with C-Win or, I know that he did stuff with. He did a whole bunch of stuff for Quincy Jones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. He was like Quincy's go-to solo is on everything. Yeah, he was. So all those solos on all that stuff, James Ingram and all that.

So Charles in the studio, like what was it? So Charles, back then, the production. producer, it was not necessarily a producer's medium where every where the producer would change things. The producer's primary role at that time was to manage that budget. I love they watch that money.

And to be sure that the flow of the sessions, because they were all live, that the flow of the sessions yielded enough work each day. And, you know, they would have musical things to say because especially as a player, I'm not in the booth to be able to hear it as it's going across. So, you know, somebody that you're close enough to musically who can say,

we need one more, or careful that letter B or whatever the situation is, or to say, I know it felt weird, but it's killing you need to come in now and check it out. Or just would have suggestions to keep the flow going. And then after you had captured, then be able to help you continue to take those ideas and mold them into the final product. a little bit different from composing by committee or where you're handing it into the producer

and it's going to be completely their new canvas or completely something that they would do. So Charles was really good at being able to be really inside my head and yet remains totally objective to what the final result would need to be

and monitor our workflow and our work progress. So that song becomes a hit. How does your life change? Well, first of all, you need to know the story that it didn't, it was not

received at the record. That whole album, that whole straight from the hard album, which has number one on it, remind me on it, forget me not, so. It was not received well at lecture. What? What? When we turned it in. Who's your A&R? Should I say it?

I'm glad. I said it. I said in my head like to tell it. Should I say? Yes. Say it. A very well-meaning man, but his name was Oscar Fields. Who else was he dealing with? As far as artists.

Well, Groyd Washington was on the label at the time. Lee Rittenauer was on the same label. Lenny White and peanut butter. They were on the label at the time. There was a bunch of folks. Someone got my peanut butter reference from yesterday. Oh, okay. I never got to explain that to you guys, but it was Lenny White.

Yeah. So there were, you know, there were a few of us because we represented this cross-hybrid of, again, jazz sensibilities running through the music, but the music was danceable and part of, again, part of our heritage in terms of, you know, R&B and all of that. So, you, most of the black acts at a large label,

like Electra were not necessarily given access to the same kinds of promotional tools and help that became part of the day. The money would be less, and in terms of this is when we were kicking over into now videos, having to be one of the main things that would allow for people to be able to see, and you couldn't do that unless your record crossed over.

And even promotional dollars, even touring dollars were set up with some kind of criteria where you had to sell so many records first and crossover unless you had some other means by which you could make it happen. It was Quincy Jones that really told us you better get with this independent promotion thing and figure out how you are going to be the first entrepreneur and a first catalyst for getting the music out there. You can't make people love it, but you've got to be. get it in front of them and sometimes they can make a choice yeah they'll sleep the record companies at that time they would they would miss because even if you had the video i'm like what are where where can you serve as a video oh yeah well i was there just a engagement for allowing you not to have you know you just said something it just hit me did you tore it a lot or at all because

besides soul trained you didn't see me much yeah and i don't recall like you i didn't i didn't I mean, opening for Jeffrey Osborne. The dollars weren't there for them to justify any kind of help with the tour. And at that point, part of what record company promotion and marketing plans included you being able to get out in front of people. So I ended up, I did get out, but I ended up on a lot of these all-star events. But why is it a super fest or like that sort of thing? Well, and somewhere was like multiple artists playing, type of, playing. Then you say, well, here's my new single,

and then you have, you know, Lenny White actually playing, forget-me-nots in front of people for the very first time. I mean, when people heard it before it came out, he was the first drummer that played it. And you got the saxophone solo being played by Stanley Turrantine instead, and my heirs is on the stage. So it wasn't awful, let me tell you.

But the idea was that was the way I could get out because it was just me. I didn't have to support a band, and I didn't have to support all the other kinds of things. Is there a tape of the thing? that go on somewhere. Talk to Al Heyman. He may still have it. Of course.

He was the pretty... He keeps coming up on this show. Well, Al Hayman was the young upstart... Harvard Good. ...concert promoter that was going to turn it all on its ears because he saw so many artists not able to get in front of their audiences.

So he created ways by having these multi-artist things. He couldn't do it on the scale. of the Budweiser Super Fest and the cool jazz festival, but he could do it in smaller things where he could take five or six of us and we would go and we would play different schools and things like that, colleges and places

where he said to get the music and you guys as artists in front of these people because when your music blows up, you know, it's a different thing when you said, you know, I was there and I heard that song, blah, blah, blah. So I really truly believe, Despite the fact that between Freddie and Charles and myself,

we put our life savings of a few dollars together to buy three weeks of Interimpro Promotion to get Forget Me Notts, at least in front of radio. I really think that having the idea that people appreciated it because I had played it out there before it was out and let them know that this is new and it's about, come out, hey, it's either thumbs up or thumbs down and it was a resounding thumbs up.

Forget Meina's was a little ahead of the curve too. So it was that courage given by my people that allowed for me to be able to say, yeah, it would be worth trying to see what happens at the radio. So when did it finally hit? Like, how long did it take for it to, for the label to catch on? Oh, the label caught on maybe a month after it came out, to the point that they gave me my money back. Oh.

So nice of them. So, okay, you, it's rare that we get an artist who actually composes the songs that will later be sampled. Men in black. More than that, you're just such a sample-friendly artist. Is the myth, not the myth true or whatever? Because I guess when we talked to Ali Willis

about the September effect of writing September Earth, Winter Fire, and then she reminded us, well, I was one-fifth of the writers, So even though that was a massive hit, sharing a check with five other people still meant like, you know, don't quit your day job. Yeah, you still got to work just yet. But as someone who has created music with at least seven to eight songs that can pretty much stand the test of time of hip-hop sample ability, are you able to make a nice living off just the sample residuals?

Or is it just like, oh, okay. I could have steak with the beans and rice. I could put some cheese on this cheeseburger. I get some new braids. I guess the, I guess the perception is always like, that one hit single that will cause me to retire for the rest of my life or man if this to be

sampled on this thing or if somebody covers it like you yeah that sort of thing so is that myth true or is it just like oh it's my mortgage is cool for three months I think that the mechanism that allowed for

somebody who is like an alley like a songwriter to be able to live on those royalties. That mechanism isn't there in the way that it used to be. So the samples are about as close as you'll get to what may have been

covers before. And, you know, no dis, because I totally get it. But, you know, it ain't like the sample. Everybody wants to sample your stuff doesn't have any money to, at that moment, to necessarily pay you in advance or something like that.

And those sample requests and those kinds of licenses, I mean, especially the way things are now, it has to be like super massive for you to be able to see a difference. A difference. So it's about now having the ability, I think, to do it many different ways. Sampling is an income stream. It is a decent one. But if somebody, I don't think, I think we're the day of,

somebody being able to live off that is not there the way that it was when you were living off of royalties because you were receiving several sets of royalties. You were getting your mechanicals. You were getting, if it was using a film, your performance, sync licenses, da-da-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. And if you had covers, and if that cover happened to be done in another language or something, there were all these mechanisms and companies that were promoting. the use of all of this music. Now, the songs had to be worthy. They had to be able to stand up. But there are people who every day, their job,

9 to 5, they're writing songs all day. That was a job as a songwriter. We're getting back to the craft of that, I think. We're getting back to people who are songwriters exercising that muscle every day to write 10 or 15 songs to find one that they can then release and see how it's going to go or hopefully get it to another artist or something like that. But I think it would be very difficult now to just make your living off of samples. It helps, though.

Let me tell you what. It helps. Yeah, the men in black check, I imagine that had to be pretty good. It is. I could actually put the word savings back in Libel Canada. Yes, indeed. That's what I'm talking about. Protect that bag, Patrice Rush.

Yeah, that was good. So are we cool with our rapid fire or have we missed anything? Um, okay. Oh, we didn't ask about feel so real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, yeah. I love that. Like, you do that in your head like for 30 seconds. Like, okay. Feels so real. Um, okay, well, Snoop Dog, did he cover? Yeah. Him and Dame Funk.

He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. I forgot about that. I forgot about that. I forgot about that.

Now, I get one question I always wanted to ask you. As a musician, I mean, you have your ups and down periods, whatever. What would be considered your down period? Because to me, you've always worked. And I've always seen you doing stuff. So what were some of a period, you know, where things just kind of, you know, might have got a little tight? And, you know, how did you navigate that?

My downs wouldn't be bad. They were moments of clarity. I guess the biggest one, I did one album for Arista. After my extent at fantasy, I mean, sorry, after my stint at Elektra, Bob Krasnow came in on my last of seven albums. Okay. That was an album that feels surrealism. And when I didn't see the kind of, still, after all we had gone through,

after we had, they had, I never got that our relationship was such that I, in their mind, for whatever reason, earned even the opportunity to be able to use the best of their machine. So after that album and Feels So Real sat between when Doves cries, number one, feels surreal number two, and tell me I'm not dreaming. Michael Jackson and Jermaine Jackson. Oh, man. And they didn't budge trying to take things to the next level. Yeah.

I said, okay, I'm out. So I had been being courted a little bit by Clive Davis. He said he really, really wanted me on the label. So I went to Eresta. I did one album for Eresta, and he held onto that album for almost close to three years. Good God. So, wait, Watchout was done in an episode.

84? Oh. So it sat while he's waiting on the hit. Oh, God. I don't hear a hit. And see, the last time somebody told me that. It was forgetting of life. So I'm like, it go off in your head?

It went off of my head, but at the same time, you know, I said, you know, I think I'm at a crossroads where I need to determine whether or not having done these albums and received all this great energy, you know, from an audience that accepted me as I was when nobody was cared enough to even ask what we were going to do, we would just go in and do, to all of a sudden being like, almost like, a little bit feeling like a little micromanaged, but I also knew that that was a part of the way

that they did things over there. But the waiting game was, I'm not ready for the waiting game. So I got busy because I had other skills and other things to do. Remember for me that signing at all was kind of on on a path to something else remember I wanted to do TV

music for TV and film that's that was my goal the deal was never your final destination that was not my final destination but it was a great training ground and it offered me a lot of opportunity and it offered me a lot of access so I wasn't so afraid when it got to be going on three years and I'm still waiting on this magic bullet

to say you know I don't know that I can do this this way. So when I did hear the song that they chose that they felt was like, you know, the second coming, I was like, really? And radio, particularly black radio, was like, oh, we would not expect this from you. Now remember, I had had like all these other albums. So I developed relationships with program directors and things like that because the music was consistent in terms of whatever they were listening for. And the audience had already received what I do based upon what I do. So this was really a departure and was not received very well.

And so that's what I knew. I said, oh, okay. Well, it may be time to kind of press a pause on this part of it and use the time to focus on the things that I was on the way to and sort of. I don't say put on the back, but got side tracked, you know, doing other stuff. With the scoring and that stuff. With the scoring and stuff. Because that's a thing where you got to pump, you got to pump that machine in a whole other way of just trying to get in.

He did the meeting album also, which is sort of like the jazz. Like a jazz fusion. Yeah. Yeah. With Ernie and Nidugu and Alfonso, we did, we did two CDs actually. And that was always for me. I always had a release that I didn't have. have to feel locked in. I think what took so and takes so many of our artists out is that whatever

they're doing, they reach some barrier or boundary and they don't necessarily have a way to punch themselves out of it. And it's at the highest level and the lowest. It's like, you know, I mean, I watched people who I feel like would have just exploded. had they had a way to be able to compartmentalize a little bit and go do something else. I was hurt when Phyllisheimen died. Angie Bofeel and these were people that were on Arrister. Remember they were on Arrister too. Yeah, we were on Arrister, yeah.

I saw like Stephanie Mills for a while was there and kind of got, and I'm like, man, the difference maker for me was, I think, having something else that I love that didn't take me away from the music and allowed me to have another platform and another outlet. And I think that that's one of the other contributors to me being involved so deeply in education now because you want to do this thing and you want to have every option open to you of how you're going to get there and how you're going to do it. You know, you want

Difference paths Window open, window not open Go through the back door Back door not open Go through the side You know, because it's about the music And you have something you want to do And you have something you want to say

And it's important So you need multiple ways to be able to place yourself In that environment And that's what saved, I think that's what saved my life So what is your life like now? Like what's the average day in the life?

Do your kids know? Yeah, it is that Dr. Rush? is Patrice Russian or is it just like, do they know your parents? They're like, my mom's a teacher. Well, my son is 19, he's almost 20. He knows now. Does he get it? He does now because other people have told him.

But he, you know, has been around and comes to the, has come to different things and kind of like connected the dots. Oh, this. My mom is important. So when she told me to take out the trash, it was her telling me to tell her. Is that your only son? You have other kids? I have one son and a daughter. And my daughter is now 13.

She's just now getting it because now she's, you know, finding her own music and da, da, la. And she knows. They do music as what? Both of your kids? A little bit. I don't know that they'll do it as a profession.

But they both play. He plays guitar a little bit. She plays string bass. Okay. So they kind of get it. Him more than her. What about your students? Do your students know?

Oh, yeah. They get it and, you know, teaching at the college level. Oh, yeah, they should know. So they want to get it because they want to be there. And so you need to know who you. How do you manage that, though? But can I meet you after class? Can I have any of your time?

Can I, like, I'm sure you get a lot of those requests. I do all the time. But the curriculum, especially the curriculum at the popular music program at USC, I helped to sort of coordinate those things that were important. So they get a lot of information and then I'm still active as a teacher. So they get a lot of information all the time and from not just me, but from other people who have a lot of the same kind of information who came up wanting to be able to play anything and want to do it. I just want to be in it. I just want to do it. So I better get really good at a lot of stuff.

Have you been involved in any advocating of music education nationwide? Because it just seemed like the perfect person that would do some things like that. I mean, and I know since you worked with the Grammys that. Well, from the standpoint of teaching, I do that. And then I'm also at Berkeley College of Music as their ambassador for artistry in education. So sometimes, and I've worked with Grammy in the schools. I've worked at the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz. So I've had different platforms and been asked to do different

kinds of things. But in terms of us having a certain kind of generational advocate for the kind of thing you're talking about on a broader base, I don't know that I've ever been asked to do anything like that on a consistent basis. Right. I just see you

at the White House. But I'd be now. Maybe not this White House. Damn. You're right. Let's get another White House. Let's not see see Patrice rushing over there. No, I don't know. No collusion.

No collusion for Donald Trump. Dr. Russian, we really thank you for. Oh, thank you. I was so happy. You don't understand. When I sent you the text message and I saw the three dots pop up at the bottom. It's not like the two-fairy. Yeah.

It's a creature. I sent to my wife. That is awesome. Thank you guys for asking. And congratulations. You know, you guys... Thank you. Thank you.

To have an open platform to be able to speak truth and really be able to get inside of our people's heads and what's going on and talk about us. It's really important. That communication is so, so key. It's been our survival. Yeah. No, we had James Simpson, he said the same thing. This is one of the first time that the older generation and the younger generation, we don't really get the dialogue like that. And, you know, we just thank you for being open.

Oh, thank you. Like, doing this show is like a... Life lesson after life lesson for me. Oh, it's awesome. It's beautiful. Well, it's an important thing because, like I said, I don't want to go so far to say by design, but by design. You know, as people become successful, you know, you're pulled away as opposed to being able to gather. Yes.

And when you have the opportunity to be able to, you know, get out and do some things, the information that you get and the understanding that you get from being able to absorb other kinds of things and be other places and meet other people. that's important stuff to be able to bring back so people's horizons can be broadened. So please continue to do what you're doing and know that you have a thousand percent of my support. Can I just thank you as a new California resident? Just meeting somebody who has a history of blackness and it's still very conscious and deep in it

because, you know, as an East Coast person, you come here and you're like, where are there? Where is it? So I'm just soaking it, and I'm going to ask you some recommendations later for all kinds of black things. Got you. Maybe it could be a segment.

Laia. Black recommendations by Patrice Russian. It's a new segment. Well, ladies gentlemen, on behalf of Team Supreme, Von Tickalo, it's Laia. Sugar, Steve. You okay, sugar?

No, he's salty, Steve. No, no. I'm a little under the weather, but I did have... Oh. I know that you were saying... I'm sorry. of finesse us out of this episode.

Well, you know. Go ahead. Take the floor, Steve. I was just curious, out of the, I know you said that East Coast Jazz people would come out here and you'd see them too, but out of the West Coast jazz scene in the 60s and 70s, who were your favorite

piano players or just jazz artists from out here? From out here. Well, I'm going to have to broaden our coast a little bit to just do the west of the Mississippi side. So Joe Sample is from Houston. That's not right here in LA, but he was here a lot because he did so much studio work here.

So, you know, he was, he became sort of, again, another person that had that kind of mentoring attitude and was helpful. Let me see, let me see. And then, you know, some of my peer group, Billy Child is amazing. Todd Cochran, amazing. Now, we're not that far in age, but we listened to a lot of the same people and listened to each other. Having, having, having great. grown up in L.A. Like, what jazz are your parents listening to? People that were... They listened to Harrowland and Blue Mitchell.

They were out here. A lot, too. Joe Henderson lived up in the Bay Area, so we heard a lot of that. I heard a lot of that. Brubeck? Brubeck was here. Yeah, heard a lot of his stuff, too. Not quite as much, you know, the really well-known stuff,

but I didn't really get into a lot of, you know, his other music other than the stuff that most people knew, you know. What about like Cal Jader? He was on fantasy. Oh yeah, Cal Jeter was on fantasy. He had one of his records, it was red. I had that moments. What's just to see?

Do you? Yeah. And Claire Fisher. You mentioned Claire Fisher earlier? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

So was he Claire Fisher? Yes. Do you have any say whatsoever about the reissues of your records or anything? Yeah. We can't find. None of that stuff on streaming. None of the... I'll give you the scoop.

Like, where are the masters? The masters now recently, just recently, I went to a German company. I'm trying to remember the name. Wounded Bird. Wounded Bird has had some. Okay. They have some. I think I got pizzazzed.

I thought you were joking. I was like, that's a label? Yeah, yeah. K-7? Oh, yeah, yeah. They just acquired a lot of stuff from. the Warner's catalog under which this stuff was. So those will be ways you can investigate.

And then, you know, if you still can't find something, you can call. We got to leave. Oh, yeah. Gosh, you need something you need to call. All right, right, right. All right, stems. Thank you very much. Anyway.

Y'all are taking stems. Y'all will be having to take the 24-track tape. Oh, wow. They're in Hamilton. Please, stem your stuff up, please. Please. All right. So on behalf of anything else, Steve?

No, thank you. Thank you. Actually, you know, Steve, I'm with you now that I totally forgot about Hollywood. Listen. Wow. This is between stars that I'm talking about. No, I understand. It's just a car going to tell you.

I know, I know. I'm just saying, now I wish we could do roll call again because I totally forgot about Hollywood shuffle and I would have made a Tommy reference. Oh, Tommy. Tommy. He was my. My only brother. I love the didn't him. Nothing did it.

All right, y'all. We'll see you on the next program now. We are black. The Jerry Curr. Yeah. You know, all those people in that movie are so happening. Keene and I know. All these people are really blown up.

So, again, community. A bold. Community. Beautiful. Let's hear for the community. Power to the people, because the people got the power. I'm sorry. Patrice is here.

Sorry. And that's how we'll sign off. This Pandora, the community station. We'll see you on the next round. Thank you very much, y'all. Goodbye. What's Love Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clevertonton.

Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the eye. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.