The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Randy Jackson

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

Randy Jackson rehashes what it was like being the youngest brother of the musical dynasty that was The Jacksons. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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podcast network on TikTok. Kirstloaf Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Kustlove and this is QLS Classic. And we go back

with our how Randy Jackson. You know? Not American Idol Randy Jackson, but the original Randy Jackson of the Jackson Five of the Jackson's. Yes, the youngest Jackson, well, next to Janet. You know, we get into it. We talk a lot about his career, him joining his brothers at such a young age, his life as a producer and as a songwriter, and memories of the family.

So this is all the way from Halloween, October 31st, 2018. Randy Jackson Quasloaf's Supreme Supreme Supreme Role call Suprema Suprema

Role call Suprema So prima My name is Kuslove This is my show I cannot think of a rhyme scheme

To go with Suprema Suprema Role So Suprema Role Call My name is Sugar

I love to dance Yeah I, oh shit. Right. Just give me that one more chance. Ro! R. Suprema roll call.

Suprema, Sraima, Srauma, Rold call. Randy. Yeah. I'm happy to be here. Yeah. With folks in Hendrix. Yeah.

We're going to have a party. Roll call. Supremea. So, Sra. Suprema role call. Supreme. Damn. The at lives.

Yeah. Cuitips should be ashamed of himself. Randy just signed them. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to, I always say it's a special, every episode is a special QLS. Once again, I call you all anemic supreme. Shout out, no, but y'all hear it.

You know, shout out to Fon Ticcolo and his countertops. His countertops and, you know, unpaid bills just like living on Sesame Street now, right? Shouldn't you shout out the people who are actually here? Yes, I will. People that aren't here. Okay. Hello, Light, yeah, you too.

We got Sugar Steve and your network. Yes. And boss bill. Yeah. All right. So, ladies and gentlemen. Great intros for us, by the way. You guys always do this here.

Here's these two schmucks over here. It depends. It depends. It depends. We travel all over to various studios. That's cool. You know. Electric ladies are home home.

So, oh, yeah. I should let you guys know. that we're here at Electric Lady Studios, House of Hendrix, House of Hoodoo, House of Wonder, and Roy Ayers. And I didn't even until I walked in the, until, yeah. And shout out to Electric Lady for finally pulling a Roots record up. I kind of forgot that, you know, I didn't know if they knew that I recorded here as well. So anyway, ladies and gentlemen, I'll say that I've, you know,

I've made many a brouhaha over the, uh, musical influences of my childhood, you know, like Stevie this and Prince that and Dilla this and Michael this and Quincy that and Steve Feroom, whatever. But I'll say that in prepping for this episode, I slowly kind of realized that our guest today is probably more influential to me personally than I give them credit for. and, you know, basically because of the timing and the influence of what we know as the Jackson 5 or the Jackson's, it was absolutely inescapable in the 70s if you were growing up black in the 70s. And they were pretty much more than entertainers or even superheroes. They were damn near like an occupation because I probably didn't ask more times as a kid, you want to be a little Randy Jackson when you grow up?

So, you know, Randy Jackson to me was more an occupation than an actual personality. And I guess that sort of planted the seat. And I'll say that, you know, his influence on my life, I'll share stories of his influence on my life throughout the show's stories. For me, wanting to be a percussionist to various punishments I received as a child in the name of trying to stunt like Randy Jackson. Anyway, even on the low of me joining the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame committee to write the wrong of his omission in that institution, I personally believe he should be alongside his five brothers in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And I'm actually trying like hell to make that happen and to write that wrong.

because in my opinion it was his contributions that was key to taking them you know to adults and us taking them seriously this is I feel like it's like a memorial my father Randy's like snoring anyway I'm just saying no no no welcome we want to welcome the show singer percussionist producer arranger superhero and I'm putting out their future Hall of Famer Stephen Randall Jackson to Questlef Supreme. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

You know, the show's over. So, thank you. How are you today? I'm good. I'm good. I just got in last night from England. I'm good. What part of London are you living in? Central.

Belgravia, Central. Wow. I can walk everywhere. It's easy to walk. Yeah. I, shortly before, at the beginning of the Roots career, We actually, we quote, speaking of Hendricks, we pulled a Hendricks by, I'll say, creatively exiling to London and living there. How'd you like it?

For about, I loved it because, I mean, at least in 94, you know, we felt like there was a space for us creatively as a band. Because, you know, the idea of a band was becoming extinct in the United States. And, you know, so we lived in Kenishtown in the northern part of London, like in the Kandem Market. Right. Yeah, for like five years. But how long have you been living in there? I mean, we kept our flat there from like 93. We needed an apartment there so that way it wouldn't be expensive, like, to go to Switzerland, come back to Philly.

Come back to Philly. Yeah, if we had a hub over in Europe, then we could just stay in Europe and work over there. It's about three years now. Yeah, man. You know, it's interesting when you're there, they have such a great appreciation for music and the history of music. It's like, that's what I love about London.

It's like they love music, jazz, Ronnie Scots. Yeah, oh, yeah. I'm all right, Ronnie Scott. Yeah. And they're like every weekend. Damn, man. Chavreux and the Square and Lester Square. Yeah, man.

What is, is that a jazz club? This is a jazz club. Yeah. I think I last saw, went and did like two weeks there. and I was well I saw at least four of those shows and I was kind of amazed at the fact that

he was just going off the cup for each show so for him to be such anti-miles you know I was shocked that he kept it spontaneous so so you like it over there I do I do I like the music scene it's something different you know it's nice cool cool yeah and they love American music of course

It's no secret. But it's nice. It's cool. I see. So I will say that you, of course, you're in New York right now. Yes. I am. You're kind of the helm of your...

Or partnering with your sister. Yeah. Yeah. We're here in New York and Bay Area, L.A. So I'm traveling between like four places all the time. Oh, you got hubs all over the place. Yeah. That's the dream.

That's the absolute dream. So I want to start from the beginning. So what were your earliest memories of growing up in? I assume that you were born in Gary India. Yeah, I was. I was. Yeah. What said he was yours?

I was born in South Bend. Really? We used to go up to South Bend. They got all the rich folks up there. You were? We were poor, so we were from South Bend. So I wish I had that car. You know, it's like, yeah.

That's my car. Everyone plays that's my car. Right? Everybody pays that. So what were your earliest memories of what you were growing up in? Like, Gary was an interesting place because it was like, growing up, there was like gang violence and it's pretty serious. It's pretty bad. But we had a father who was like, the gangs were scared of our father.

They were like, those are yours boys. You know their daddy crazy. Don't mess with them. It was like, so he, you know, he, he did his best to keep us out of the streets. Right. So, you know, we were just in the house playing instruments. But Gary was a great experience. Home is always home.

Actually, I've been spending a lot of time there lately, so it's nice. Oh, yeah. In fact, I'm going back to on or after here. Wait, what home? Back to Gary. So you guys Still on the home there That 2300 Jackson

That's 650 square foot house We still have it Really? Yeah It's Is it a museum piece now Or is it just like Is it open for the public to see?

Yeah They want to make a museum out of it But we just want to make it For people to see But keep it home Like this room is much The house can fit in this room Really?

Yeah So we had two bedrooms my parents slept in the master bedroom and me, Marlin, Jackie Tito, Germain, Michael, Jackie. We slept in the other bedroom and Latoya Revy and Janet slept on the Riviera sofa in a living room. Me, Marlin, and Michael slept in the middle bunk. Jackie had the bottom bunk by himself.

And Tito had the top. Tito and Germain and the top of them. I slept between Michael O'Amara, they both would pee on me growing up. So I was like, it was gross. It was gross, you know, but, uh. Slowly sound like a Wu-Tang childhood. Yeah. Hey, man.

Wow, okay. I see. Ghetto living. Hey. So it's, it's, for me, like I know that you were, I mean, assuming that the idea of the Jackson Five started in 65. you're 61, 602? I was born in 61.

All right, so you were four when they started. Did you feel like, oh, this is me too, or was it like? It was funny. When my brothers started, yeah, like 65, and I remember when I went you back, became like a hit. They had a local hit, a big boy. Yeah. You know, it was hit in Chicago, hit some other places. But when I want you back became a hit.

I was still in Gary and my mother came in their room and woke me up just listen to this was on the radio I'm like is that them?

Yeah so we were all excited and we were going out to L.A. It was a few days later and we went to L.A. It was like culture shock, man. I'd never seen like homes in the hills. That's what I wanted to know. Like what was it like for you to?

It was, it was overwhelming. I'm like and I was like my eyes were I mean, I don't know what the thing. It was, it was scary in a way because all the things I had seen on the viewmaster. Wow, the view master. The view master.

Oh, yeah. So all the things I looked at on the view master at home, right? Right. So all the things I've seen on the viewmaster at home dreaming one day I'm going to go here, maybe. Now I'm seeing it in person and these big homes and Disneyland. And you know, the one thing that was really, freaked me out with school buses. Really?

Where I'm from, we walked in school, and I was eight years old walking to school and snow taller than me, you know, but, but, right? But school buses coming to pick you up in front of your house. I was like, what? This is great. I'm like, this is awesome. But it was a great experience, man. It was like, it changed me up a lot.

When did you move, when did you officially moved, Della? It was 1971. Wow. Okay, so you were 10 years old? 10 years old, yeah. So I know about the first concert with, first of all, how did you finally convince your family, like, okay. Getting the music thing?

Yeah. Well, to get. They went with it. Because at the time, a true story, and some people may not want to hear this story, but my dad always wanted me to be in the band, but I think Motown thought to add a six brother, it would confuse everybody.

Jackson Six, right. So we're going to say, Jackson Six? I mean, it's just confused. So I said, okay, I got to figure out how to get my way into this. So I started just playing everything I could. Like in our house in L.A., we had a recording studio that had, like this place, had drums, guitars, piano.

So I would go around the room. come home from school, do my homework. I'd be in the studio until I went to bed. My brothers be touring to whatever. That was my every day. But I didn't know that I was developing skills at the time that would, you know, pay off for me later.

But I was at home playing the piano. Then I turned on the board and start making songs and tracks and playing all the parts on the tracks and playing the guitar part and paying the bass part. And I paid a little trumpet. I try to do it. everything. So as time went on, things got a little bit better, a little bit better. And then

we went to CBS Records where we were, where we started writing our own songs. So by that time, my writing is what came through. But I meant for the appearance where you came out to do, I think a brand new thing? What happened was, yeah. So what happened even before I was officially a part of the band, I had sang on songs like

a dancing machine, get it together. I was singing on all the songs. So I would go to the students sing on the songs, but they wouldn't put my face on the album. Okay. Because it was just confusing, six brother. So, yeah, so I was already involved in singing

and touring. Yeah. And touring for years, playing percussion. in touring, but I wasn't officially involved because the sixth brother was going to be confusing. Yeah. Okay. So at the time when you guys were performing, it was still Ronnie on keyboards and Johnny. Johnny Jackson. On drums.

So that was definitely your brother, Germain on bass. Yeah, yeah. Yo, he, Germain, Germain can play. Yo, I was going to say, like, on that Indiana concert, I know you can play. Yeah, he's kind of killing on some James Jamerson. So at least back then, as far as, because I want to compare or at least find out the difference between touring life in 72, 73, 74 versus 10 years later the victory tour, which I'm sure is like apples and oranges. but at least for back then,

like I'm noticing that your brother's microphones, sometimes it'd be two or three of them taped together as far as technology is concerned. How were, what would the, could you recall back then with like with the, as far as the placement of speakers and all those things like. That's a good question.

In terms of recording. Well, not recording, but just live because I know that the standard for the standard for what backline is today versus back then. And you guys were playing stadiums. Yeah. If I was in the noseblee, could I physically hear what you guys were doing or was just there to see physically what? But back then, you know, we didn't have like pro tools or technology and things like that. Yeah, monitors or any of those things. Yeah, so everything was like real time, hands-on, like, as you see it.

And I remember, like, show code was doing our sound, but we had a guy named Rusty. Okay. It was a sound guy back then. We used the same guy from Texas every tour. He was amazing. He just had a nice touch. And during the show, I would somehow.

how you know figure out how to go out in the audience and in a disguise because I had to hear the sound like what yeah like I'm the one I like I'm my brothers I'm the one who like pays attention all that stuff it's like so you technically the MD yeah I'm like I'm at every sound check I mean I got to hear the sound right so I would sneak out there and hear the sound you know you know during a break and somebody's doing the solo I'm like check it out and I'm hear the drums you know so because you got a song, even though we listen to tapes afterward, it's still not the same,

because the tapes are just direct. But you're not hearing the way it sounds out there. But in those days, I think there is a naturalness to it because of the analog and just everything in real time that's missing today. You know what I'm talking about?

It's missing today. and that those things that a little bit out of sync or the made a little bit flat all adds to making it sound great as all part of the great. You know what I'm talking about. It's like it makes it human. It gives it that human element. That's missing today.

Everything's kind of too perfect in a sense. And I feel that music loses its dynamics now today. Sometimes I can put on a song today and I can't tell if it's the beginning, middle of end, because it sounds the same straight through. but in those days, you could tell what the beginning in the middle of the end was because it had been dynamics.

And sometimes the temple would change from the beginning of the song to the end song. Even that was kind of a cool thing. Yeah. Fluctuation. It breathes. To, I'll say that at least for you guys, in my eyes, you guys were like the first people

to really benefit the post civil rights era glory. or the post dream of what Martin was talking about as far as like you arriving in L.A. and being of age and really just benefiting. Not saying that you guys haven't gone through what most of Black America goes through in life.

If anything, you probably have business stories of double standards and we'll get into that. But just on the offset of what, what was it like to I mean I don't want to say Black Beetle Mania but just the idea of yeah what was that

actually like to be in a situation where you're pretty much having to run for your life run every day and was it just like one Bill Braille trying to protect the six of you guys or yeah it was at one time and you know it was like

it was interesting because I mean Yeah, it was literally running for your life. There was a few times we were actually really scared and we got pretty dangerous. I mean, in those days, we could never finish a full show because they would actually rush the stage

and the stage would actually collapse because all of the pressure and the weight against the stage it would fall. So Bill would be on the stage, looking at the stage, and we'd be looking at him. He'd have his hand up. A signal. A signal.

As soon as he put his hand down, it means drop your instrument and run. It's like, he's watching. He's watching. And we're still playing. We're looking at him. As soon as it goes like this, it means go. Because the stage is clapping, fans are rushed to stage, and we got to get out of there.

But man, I'm just, you know. Did you guys actually invent, like, the idea of entourages? And because, I mean, there's no one parallel to that, in black music, at least. Like, you know, I don't see. girls chasing parliament funcadelic that way or yeah exactly so just the just the travel i mean things that we take advantage of now you know i mean i'm explaining to people what the idea of a greeter at the airport means or a back insurance or that sort of thing but you guys had to kind of find out the hard way and i'm certain that there weren't five-star hotels at the beginning so you know there's romada ends

and Hilton and Hilton was a five-star. Right. But a lot of Ramada ends and Howard Johnson. Howard Johnson, sorry? Did ever get tired? Like, were you, at one point,

were you just over it? Like, okay, this is not fun anymore. Like, where's my wallet? Or someone broke in my room again? You know, when you're touring, it's like, you know, you have fun on tour. It's like everybody becomes one family. It's a lot of jokes.

A lot of laughing, you make it fun. And right around the middle of the tour, you can get a little stale. Then towards the end, it starts getting fun. Everybody knows because they're going home, but it starts getting fun. But, man, it's a lot of fun. Was it more of the grass is greener on the other side, though? Like, I wish I was home playing with my car collection on my court. You probably had real.

I'm thinking of like a tycoo. He probably had, like, yeah, so. I mean, was it more like, ah, man, you could spend, what places didn't you like to travel? Like, even now I'm starting to appreciate Europe, but in the midst of it, like, I couldn't stand. Like, we got to do three months in Europe and I hate this. Really? Well, I mean, first of all, like, you know, we, I'll say the roots were at least like, the money wasn't rolling in for the first 10 years. So for me, Europe was just like the worst.

hotels and living off of this, you know, 24-hour McDonald's and backline, like, that sort of thing. But for you, it was like, you enjoyed it. Yeah. I mean, there are some places that we didn't like going to too much, you know, not because based on a crowd, like. Yeah, not because of the crowd. I mean, once we hit the stage and the people and the fans were there, it was all

love, but some of these racist towns, it was pretty rough. You guys experienced that, even as the Jackson Five? Walking down the street, where was there? And this guy was able to launch up watermelon at me. Walking up is able. He's probably laughing. And, man, walking down the street in South Carolina or something, yeah. Oh, for real?

Yeah. Keep me in the back of the head with it. Yeah. Shit. Yeah. It was rough. Some places we always get threats from the KKK all the time. Seriously?

Yes. This is the stuff we never heard about. Oh, yeah, there'd be threats. A few times I had to walk on the States with a bulletproof vest. What? Wait, what? Underneath my custom, I had bulletproof vesta. Threats.

Triumph era, destiny era, adult era? Yeah. Seriously? Yeah. Damn, yo. Victory tour We had a really bad threat The FBI came out

They were in the trees We had a threat There was bombs It was some hate organizations And I was the first one on the stage On the victory tour And I remember I had that whole thing on Yeah the armor

And then the bulletproof vest on And that and I was like It's crazy Seriously We did the show We didn't stop Y'all never let that out No

That's crazy Because we didn't You know you let that out, you may get more people copycats, so we're going to keep this quiet. I can't even imagine, like, the Jackson's in the era of social media, like, if that were a thing, it would have been, they were social media. There's one particular show that I see a lot of, or at least like small shots of, but there's no clips of. What was the experience of? Do you remember anything about,

you guys just trip to Jamaica? Yes. Because I see that photo of you guys hanging with Bob Marley and that's all I see. But what was... Yeah, we went to his house and stayed there before he passed away. And I remember it was cool.

It was a cool experience. In fact, they did a documentary and there's one part that we're in the... Really? Yeah. The most recent one I think has came out. So you guys were hip to who he was? Oh, yeah.

Because I feel like... He was nice. He was really, he invited us over. We, we, we did a show there during us and some shows there. He invited us over. We had a good time. Oh, okay. It was cool.

There's, the period that I particularly enjoy, and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with, like, my age and finally seeing you guys. which you know I've read various brothers like either roll their eyes at the period or whatever but for me like you know the

variety show era Jackson's the Vegas era Jackson yeah like I particularly like that stuff because it's well what people don't know about those things

like even the Vegas stuff even the variety show. That show was really successful. But we limited to just 10 shows. We didn't want to do any more than that. And then same thing with Vegas. We don't want to go back to Vegas. Because we wanted to do more music.

We wanted to make it more musical. For us, it wasn't just about going to Vegas, doing the show, and making good money. We wanted to keep it musical at the time we were doing. go in the studio, make more albums, record, and take it to a next level. Well, your brother said that, you know, to do Vegas, or at least to do the variety show, was more like old hat. Yeah, we only did 10, it was 10 shows.

So even in doing the show, it was sort of like, ah, this is corny, like, we rather. But we enjoyed it, but we didn't want that to be our brand. We didn't want to be, you know, the variety show. No. We said, we want to make great albums, performance and large stadiums and make people happy. So by the mid-70s, especially, we know that you guys exited from Motown in 75.

And part of the reason was that you wanted your independence and doing production and writing. How, like, how frustrating was it to watch Marvin especially Stevie, who was at the apex of his, you know, the peak of his powers by that period for you guys not to be able to get the trust to do the same thing. And were you even developing songs? Were you playing them songs?

Like, here, this is... Motown? Yeah. No, we weren't playing them songs. It was still very new in Motown days in the sense. And we were all very young. young. And so the songs were written and produced. But Stevie and Marvin, they were like family. They would always be around at the house. Stevie is like a third cousin of our, did you know that?

Oh, literally? Yeah, literally. Oh, yeah. I didn't know. A lot of people don't know that. I don't know. We never talked about, I was talking about, I was talking about, nobody knows that too much, but he's related to us through our mother. So, but it was like, they're always around. It was like, we're always around. It's like we're just kind of family. And what greater experience can you have than to be playing basketball with Marvin and then going in the studio? You know what I mean?

So I look back at those days and it's like, how could you not learn? How could you not learn by being by such great iconic, you know, musical people? So was it officially put to you that we want you officially in the group? Circa 75-76? Or was it just assumed like, okay, you now feel in the spot? No, it was officially, I was already in the group, but it wasn't publicly exposed. and it was when we left Motown, I think because of the writing and the songs

I had written that it became public. The first song on, well, first we did the Gamblin Huff stuff, and that was another great experience. With Kenny Gammell and Leon Huff, those guys were amazing. Yeah, the first time I got to see you guys in person, Philly International was literally next door to my, elementary school. So usually during recess, I would have seen you guys maybe like once or twice run through

Philly International. Yeah. Really? On Broad Street, 313 Broad Street. A lot of times you'd see Pendergrass and his voice just. Yeah. Yeah. Just post it.

Right? Yeah, post it out front and you're girl screaming. On the phone talking. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was like, oh, Teddy must be outside. But that was pretty much like my first, second, third grade experiences were just seeing that. I know that I want to know what the songwriting process was like once you guys got your chance.

Because I think on the first album, there's two songs, correct? There's blues away and is a style of life, I think. The last song on side. No, no, no, that's going places. So you're talking about the first? the first album, the self-title album. Yeah, Blues Away. Yeah.

So you're going to Epic, where you guys sing initially to Ron and those guys like, yo, we want to produce this entire album was just like, hey, baby steps. I think we'll give you one or two songs and see what happens. But nowadays, like artists have a lot more freedom to do what they want, you know. Right. In those days, it's all about developing artists. and record labels actually spent money on developing artists.

So you had to prove yourself as a writer. You just could come in, like they wouldn't let you come in and just write and produce and everything you did. So they, I think they wanted to, they let us do two songs and see how that worked. That was like kind of a trial. So how many, to get to those two songs, how many songs did you guys have to prepare through just to get to,

okay, we like these two? Yeah. Um, it was, for us writing, it's always been, like, I've never sat down and say, okay, I need to write this song. It always just, it's kind of a fun thing. It always comes out of fun. Okay. And this happens.

So we always, as brothers, we always get in the room. And it's fun because when we get in the room, like, when we worked in those songs, we get in the room, for the first, I would say, two, three days, we just talk. It could be about anything. be about the Lakers. It could be, but we were also writing, but we also developing, because we hadn't seen each other while getting comfortable with each other, so that natural thing can come out, you know.

So we talk all day, we play, laugh, then we go play a little basketball, you know, then we eat, then we go home. Never writing, never picked up instrument. Do the same thing. Then about the third day, you know, we start writing, okay, that sounds good, you know, let's do that. So as far as the division of labor is concerned, are you at the piano?

Yeah. Do your other brothers play instruments as well? You know, Jermaine plays and Tito plays. It always kind of starts with the piano. As music today, most things start with the piano. So I'm at the piano, playing some core progressions and structures and things and creating some grooves. And maybe this brother at that, the brother at that,

and it comes together. Okay. And then you presented to Gamble and Huff and then that sort of thing. So the transition that leads to the Destiny album, which is weird because I guess me as a kid, I didn't see whether or not, you know, if going places was a commercial disappointment or not. I mean, I'd like that record. But again, you know, I'm six years old. so I don't know any better. But what was the, what was your general feeling

with going places that led to kind of the do-or-die perception of what destiny represented for you guys? Well, Sony, it was Bobby Columbia, as I recall. At Sony, it was like the ANR guy there. Blood, sweat, and tears. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, the drummer. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And he and he and CBS at the time, Sony CBS, trusted us to write and produce our own album. Destiny. But what was the meeting that said, look, guys,

we really have an album in us that we want to do ourselves without... Okay, well, we always wanted to do that. Right. So we always felt that we were ready, but they didn't know. I see what you're saying. That's what you're asking. We felt that we were really. ready, but they didn't know if we were ready.

And we had done the two albums with Gambling Huff. And for the third album, we had submitted some songs, and they liked all of them. So there are demos for all the songs that are on Destiny before. Yes. And was that the modus operandi back then? like you had to make a full-scale demo before that even... Yeah. Can you imagine that, Steve?

That's my life. Yeah, I can't imagine it. Actually, I don't have to imagine it. And these are demos without computers. And you have the full-scale demo. Right. And... So how full-scale was the Encino studio?

Which I assume that you guys did all of your... Right. Was it just... Was it full-scale enough for you to actually record there? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. absolutely there was a drum booth

everything was there so we could do a full skull demo and so here we're thinking they're going to pick one or two tracks or whatever like that but they like everything

they're like wow this is nice so we were happy about that of course and just grateful to have the opportunity to do it ourselves and Bobby also in Ackison also produced it as I recall.

Okay. So can you tell the story or the genesis of how shake your body, like from start to finish how that song got written? It's funny because like that, like that, that groove was. was a groove that I played. I started playing the groove like 13 or 14.

So you've had those piano chords in your head for the longest. The baseline. You know, the baseline, I was influenced by Teddy's. What did I tell you? Get up, get down, get funky, get loose. All right, I told him this

are billing games, right? And he's like, I don't think so. Uh-uh. But, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was influenced the bass line that I was influenced by that baseline. Yeah. Like most songs are derivative

of other ideas you hear and just morphs into that. Because I was around Teddy and the whole Philadelphia International. It just came out that way. Okay, show's over now. I'm going to indicate it. Yeah.

So you're right. And I only say that because as a watcher of what's happening whenever rerun would dance on that show they would do you know like when when people

score and place music on TV shows of course they don't license the real song they get somebody to do a sound like of it and their version of it was somewhere the thin line between Teddy's song and what would shake your body

down to the ground so whenever I think of rerun dancing I'm thinking of both songs and I was like, hmm, I wonder if their experiences in Philly sort of brought that on. Yeah. I always said that shake was

the sort of somewhere between got to give it up and. Yeah. And Teddy's song. So the song is eight minutes. And it's 100% it's linear and goes ahead without a bridge, without, but yet it works.

So as far as structuring the song is concerned, how did you guys... Well, you know, and that was... Doesn't it? Like the disco, the dance era. Everybody's wanted to dance. So we want to have that one song. And it's funny because before we even recorded that song,

we knew that that would be the song from that album. you know we knew it that that would be the track and um it started with with with the groove and and um melody but then we had tom-time 84 the all these great people just to add all these layers to to give it structure and then da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da right right you know and uh just so it wasn't too repetitive and boring. To jump off that real quick, because you just mentioned strings. How did you guys enlist Claire Fisher

to do, push me away? That's interesting. We always like Claire's work. Were you fan of Ask Rufus? Yeah, man, you read everything, him of the credits. No, well, yeah, I mean, I know Claire, like we're Claire stands.

So, you know. Stan's. Oh, no, no, stands. Stans meaning we're, we're. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Eminem. Stand as in the Eminem term.

It's a nice way of saying a fanatic word near stalker. But, no, any, from that Ask Rufus record means everything does. And thus, you know, that influenced Prince. That's why Prince used Claire on his record and stuff. So ask Rufus hearing that. Yes. Really? Oh, yes.

Who was the... So were you the one that... Who was... Who was the tastemaker of the group? The one that listened to the most records in you. You got to check this out. You got to listen to this. We all do.

We all did. What was your record collection? Nice for stealing my question. I'm sorry. Steve. Hey, what... But for us, it was like... Our house was just musical.

Was there? a record room? Not a record room. We just always, I don't, it was like, we just liked music a lot. And my mom was like,

everybody was, we just, we just love music. And, um, it was part of life. It wasn't like, hey,

it wasn't business to us. It was, it was a life. It was our life. So, something good came out. I don't care what it was. Um,

we, we liked it from country, music to R&B to rock, whatever it was. I mean, we liked it. We appreciated it. So in general, now I got it. Okay, go ahead. I mean, I mean, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, Jackie was Algreen. Okay. Everything Al Green. Like, he was like, I mean, he was like, Al Green was it. So we always heard, we had enough, we had a lot of Al Green coming from. Wait, was there just one stereo in the house? Yeah. In Encino.

Yeah, Marantz. Okay. Morant's table. Okay. And so Jackie was out, all green. Michael was like, Sils and Croft, the Motown stuff. And I was always like the grooves. Shields and Croft, though?

Yeah, wait a second. Yeah, yeah, go back. That was the first, that's the first name that came to mine. Yeah. Oh, I mean, yeah. It's the horse with no name cover. No, summer, they're summer breeze. They're not horses.

Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, it makes, okay. Wow. And I always like more grooves, but because Michael and I roomed together, he would always take authority over what music would be played because I was younger than him.

Right. So it was like Sils and Croft, bread, stuff like that. Yeah, rock. So I started to appreciate that stuff. Okay. What was it about, seals and crofts and bread.

It was like harmonies that was appealing to... Harmities and melodies. Some of these. Wow. Ah. And America. We all liked America.

Okay. America was like Moody Blues. I used to like... I like booty blues growing up. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then I love Johnny Mitchell.

I was a kid in school. Isn't the Summer Ones or... Yeah. Which... Okay. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

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that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific. fit con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network.

It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through.

And I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. Which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So, well, that's one question.

I forgot. What is your, what's your, your desert island five albums, like your go-to, even now? Like, you're... Hmm. That's such an unfair question. It's like, you got to give someone like a week. Nowadays, because music's different.

Yeah, it's too overwhelmed. Because, like, when I still listen to a lot of monk, like Thelonious Monk, I'm just like this too. He was like a genius to me. Right. And, I mean, sometimes I step like three or four in the morning, just on YouTube, just watching him. Because, I mean, just he was doing something

in the style of doing it with so unorthodox. And with the rings on, you know, something like, I mean, I appreciate a lot of Stevie, those albums. Monk's studio attitude to his engineer Tio is one of my favorite things. Moving on. Stevie, you were gonna tell him about Stevie.

Yeah, so that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the roads from music of my mind and talking book. And was inner visions here as well? No, I think just those two. Yeah, talk a book and music of my mind. Yeah, he recorded music of my mind and talking book here.

Steve, um, is our, for, I'll say 20 years ago, we've been, in the studio starting with DeAngelo's Voodoo album. So we will watch that Thelonius monk documentary where Thelonius would be at the piano and then he'd tell Tio his engineer

all right, play the tape back and then Tio was like I didn't record that. Then Thooo said, all right, I want to hear it. And he's like, no, I didn't record it. All right, just play it back for me. I didn't record it. So that's our relationship. Tio and Pellonius. Hey, question.

I don't know who I asked this about the Doobie Brothers incident. Yeah. Who was it? Dubbies were always good, dobies are good friends of ours. Michael. That's right. Michael was on the show. Okay, I forgot he was on the show.

Yeah, so I read, no, no, no. I was reading, there's a, there's an old press photo. are the Jackson's and the Dubies on stage. Yeah. And it says like there was a long, long train running and shake your body down to the ground. Mesh performance. What was the connection between the two?

Were you the same manager or publicist? No, we had mutual friends. And the guy that we went to school with, we grew up with, became like their publicist. Okay. So we would go to their shows in the dupe. They're just a bunch of nice guys, extremely talented. Like all their music, Blackwater is one of my favorite songs of theirs.

But yeah, that's how it happened. So when they would perform, sometimes I remember, I think that photo you may have seen could have been at the forum. Actually, it seemed like it was at a smaller club. it was like a small I don't know it was a press party We had been on the stage a few times Together

Yeah but that's just friends Okay so speaking of concerts Um Oh hell yeah Because I got on punishment for this thing This is one of two Two Randy punishments for me Um

who's Idea was it For you to be the dare devil Of the group Me It wasn't an idea. It was who I was. Okay.

For our listeners that don't know. I've changed a lot lately. Thanks to God. No, no, no. I've just been daredevil in terms of any time that pyrotechnics or any explosion was introduced in any Jackson's show, it's usually at the hands of Randy.

And so I'm wondering, like, is there a... Okay. Like, how is it conceptualized? Like, okay, after I do this solo, then I'm going to throw this flashpaper down, and this explosion is going to happen. Because the seven-year-old's watching this, right? And then he sees his grandmom speedstick in the bathroom.

And damn near sets a South Philadelphia house on fire. I think... Almost. Thanks, Randy. I appreciate that. Where did you get this idea from? Randy Jackson? shows, I mean, um...

Was it Doug Henning? Like, who's the... Oh, that stuff, like Doug hitting stuff? With the power techniques, all that. Yeah. We were doing that back in the 70s. Exactly. So even when you do your solo in the... Boms. Like, did you see... Were you going to kiss shows or like, what was the... What was the genesis of...

It's, I don't know, it was just... I think that... as band in the 70s, you know, black band, you want to kind of open things up to a little bit more exciting. Right. You know, and Pustum is also really, like I had a lab at home,

chemistry lab. I tried to blow stuff at an eye trying to make them. Wait, what? Wow. Randy Jackson, the Unabomber. You know, you know those little chemistry labs

family come back for you, right? You're talking about, right? So I had one of those. And you used to have one of those? Yeah. They don't have those anymore. It's too dangerous now. Oh, yeah.

But back in those days, you get a chemistry lab, and you make bombs and stuff. Yeah. But, you know, yeah, all that stuff. We just want to do something different. Because I made a little bit more fun. And you think about, like, play a solo than blow up a bomb. and but I'm saying physically

it doesn't make sense but no no that's the thing seeing it it was exciting as hell because even when like I didn't get to see the first two destiny runs so usually someone in my class come back and explain it like and the next thing you know this explosion goes off

and you're just trying to imagine like what is happening at the Jackson show but then again it's like you know, Earthwind and fires introducing lasers and levitation and this stuff and Parliament's doing theatrics. Like between the three camps, between the Jackson's, the P-Funk and the the Earthwind and Fire camp, there was like a rush to hooking out theatrics each other. And so was that a thing where you guys like going to P-Funk?

Did you ever go to P-Funk shows and be like, yo, spaceships? Yeah. And Earth-Wing and Fire. They have the theatrics. And we were huge Earthwind and Fire fans. Just the musicianship. Larry Donne.

They were just huge fans of theirs. And I would just go in the studio, just watch them. Just watch, watch, watch, watch. And... It was like the original 88 keys. Just...

Wait, too soon. I'm sorry, 88. I don't mean that. I'm sorry. You would just show up with people. Like, it's weird. Like albums that, you know, that are landmark or whatever, you're just, hey, I'll show up in, and visit. Like, how many, what landmark sessions have you or witnessed to that you didn't know at the time?

I was there when another, other friends of ours were total when they were making Strong Africa. Right. Yeah, mixing it. I was there. Those dudes are, like, so talented. Great people. Great guys. They went to receipt of high school, which was like right around the corner from the school that we went to.

But they were just very talented people. Okay, this is the fourth time you mentioned to school. So even after moving to L.A., you guys were still in a regular high school experience? Yes. How does that happen? Because we're not how does it happen? When we were off a tour, we went to regular school. When we toured, we had teachers that traveled with us, tutors.

It was an issue. It was a little bit of an issue. but we're able to get it done. So it wasn't thing like, I mean, did it feel awkward? Like, okay, now we're going to try normalcy for a second. Yeah. And it was an issue, you know. The girls.

Gym class. It's good with the girls. I don't even get to that part. Yeah. Were there like bullies in your school? Like, I'm going to beat up a Jackson today. Oh, yes. Yes.

The jealousy and this. So how do you navigate, I mean, just general safety, how do you navigate safety and be normal? Because it's like you're either going to just stay behind the gates of Havenhurst. Right. Or that's what it was. I really want to go see Rocky too at the movie theater. And is it like you have to wear a hat or? Yeah, I think.

Do I call you Stephen in high school? In the beginning, like, we kind of didn't realize the enormity of the success until we came home and you go to the market and you go to the stores and people look at you, following, and taking pictures and all that. And you start to realize, you know, even in your private life, you know, it's still there. You start to think, wow, it's kind of weird. But, yeah, it was that element was there. But that's all part of it, though. It's like, that's what it is, you know. That's what you sign up for.

Yeah. I get it. It's what you're signing for. All right, quick second punishment. All right, go ahead. Yes. Every time I tried to get out of doing something, more long ago. Yes.

Oh, you know, the jacket had to be here. Yeah. I remember, I don't know if you get this story, and my brothers, they were here. If my brothers were in this room, I wasn't. They'd tell you the story because they love it. We had done a couple of nights at the forum, I think it was. Oh, God. And I was...

What year? I was 10 years old, I think. I was a very young 19-10. So looking through the windows period? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And came home. My mom says, okay, Rainey, it's your turn to take out the garbage.

So then I'm just, I've been on the stage in front of 18,000 people. I'm coming home and she's telling me to take out the garbage. So I said, I said, Mom, I have fans. Wow. Wow. Right? Right? So you know what this is going, right?

I know. You know how your parents just give you that look. I know. And my father's eating. He stops eating. You know, and they just gave you that look, I said, Mom, I have fans now. I said, why don't I just call my fan club? And my mom, she says, are you serious?

In one of those looks, I'm like, okay, okay. Okay, mom, you were right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we did them. We did them after. A huge successful tour.

We come home, rake the leaves, take out the garbage, and do the dishes. That was it. So the division of domestic labor was still in effect. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Man, okay. All right. Speaking of Parenthood and Punishments.

The second one. Okay, so watching Soul Train 10th anniversary show. Yeah, man. Randy's playing what I believe is the fine line between what a keytare is and a very miniature roads on a guitar strap. Yeah. And so I get the bright idea. That's before they had keyboard. Yeah, I know.

I know. And so I was like, yo, I wanted to play that. And so I go to my dad's. keyboard players Wolitzer. Yeah, and I take the legs off the

Woolitzer. Was it heavy? Well, I was eight at the time, so yeah, it was kind of heavy. And, yeah, I dropped that Wolitzer. And that was the one Yeah, that was a bad punishment.

All I remember was the day, I tried to discuss like I dropped the Wolitzer because I couldn't figure out like how to put the guitar straight like there was nothing on the side so I was like all right I'll just carry it and um I dropped it and uh I just remember like my punishments were you know were were besides no besides the belt yeah there was there there there was carper punishment but then what really hit at home was either no soul train or music who

And central heating was out that year. Like, I just got central heating by heatwave. And they took my average white band and my central heating away from me. And so, thanks for Andy. I appreciate that. Sorry about that. That's not his fault, man. That's not his fault.

Yeah, man. He just made it look so cool, man. I was just like, okay. Wait, so what was it? Because that wasn't a key to art. No. Was it in Rhodes? What was it?

No, that was that. What was that? That was, I remember that. Because I also used it on Dick Clark. Yeah. All the Destiny's Do it. Like that was your, or you had a stand-up road. You know, we have these techies that, that one particular one was something that was made for me.

Okay. And, um, yeah. I play, but what I liked about that, that one was, was the, was the bottom portion of the keyboard. The bass in the bass lines. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's good. It's cool.

Ah, I see. I see now. Yeah, it must have been heavy to play and dance to, but you made it look effortless, and it wasn't effortless at all. We got to ask about how can I be sure and love song for kids. All right. So you made a single right before Destiny in 78. So what was the initial plan as far as were you actively trying to pursue a full recording album?

I think the vision of my father with all of us, even with Janet, he was always trying to get us to do things on our own in his solo career and Janet and that. And so you want to make a song, how can I be sure? And that's how that happened. Did you want to do solo stuff? Were you comfortable? Because I know that leaving your comfort zone of... I've always been like... I like being in the back.

I like writing, creating. I'm all about music. I just want to do the music. And I love performing. the camera part of it like the cameras it's okay but I don't hate it but

it's all about where we are right now yeah man that's what I like so you prefer studios as opposed to the concert yeah because I can enjoy music at home as much as I can for me I can enjoy music at home playing it

writing it almost as much as as being on the stage I mean like it means I just like it you know from the time I wake up I go to I mean, I'm still a fan of music. Speaking of which, the Triumph album. Question number one.

Who engineered that record? A guy named Bill. I'm going to tell you, he engineered Earthburn and Fire. That's why we chose him. I'm trying to get a full name. I've got to look at the credits. Okay. I never thought of it from that angle.

Yeah. Okay. Why? Okay, so. Because engineers are great. Shut up, Steve. Shout out to Rusty. Shout out to Bill. No, no, only because, okay. Yeah, I'm his engineer. Yeah, so in my pursuit of, I collect stems now.

And, well, previously when I was teaching at NYU, I would use stems to demonstrate for the class. So the thing is, when I got the triumph stems, and started doing my rough mixes, I don't know. I feel like the EQing that I did brought more life to it, made it more fuller sounding and whatnot. And then when I were listening to the original, I was like, why is it sound so compressed?

And so I always wanted to know what the process was in making the triumph record. Now I also realize that one thing I didn't take into consideration is that you're only given 16 minutes aside of a record. Because there's a lot of edits. I didn't even know. That was an API console. I remember. So you had those 550As.

Right. EQs on those. Very punchy sounding console, the old APIs. But also can be a little mid-ranging, also. in the middle. Not really, mid-ranging, bottomy, not at the highs.

So, but... So it makes Dan track the one on API? Yeah. Okay, I see. So it's not necessarily over-compressed. It's just, maybe just dark.

Right. It's dark, definitely. Actually, with both of those records, the same. engineer. I'm both of the records, as I recall. Okay.

Destiny and Triumph? Yeah. Both the same engineer. So speak of Greg Finland Gaines and how he was brought into the fold. How was it you guys pursued in him or the label saying, hey, we won? Okay. It's funny because like the songs I wrote, Greg, Greg could play them better than me, which is great.

He made him sound great. I was like, cool. I'm with it. but were you tracking your songs as far as I was okay

and some like stuff on like don't stop so you get enough like we track that stuff just like that those demos

there's demos for the other stuff from I said you worked on off the wall as well yeah yeah

yeah okay so I get to some of those demos so stuff you want to hear definitely okay

yeah we would always track it like that but um we want to wanted to bring somewhere like Greg in to, Greg was a, played with Stevie and all that kind of stuff.

But he hadn't, he hadn't been with Stevie a long time. Right. And we brought him in and he's been with our family ever since then. Okay. I was going to say the unorthodox rhythm nature of Shake Your Body Down to the Grand was such a risk. It was a risk in 1978, 79, in the era disco where it was just like four in the floor

and 129 BPMs, whereas Shake Your Body Down, in my opinion, is more of a high-powered funk song than a disco song. And because there's no definite one, as far as the drums, like for some reason, like history is shown that the drums are supposed to establish where the one was.

Were there any concerns like, yo, we're putting our eggs in this basket. And because when, and on the, on the, on the stems, Ed Green is drumming, right? Yeah. Barry White's drummer. Yeah.

I didn't have that sound. Right. But here's the funny thing. So at the very beginning, there's, there's, in the pre-reason, roll of of of those stems for 20 seconds I hear you and your brother Michael at Ed Green's bruce saying don't do any feels just keep it straight no feels and you hear him say got it no feels and I was like whoa that's that's that's that's weird to hear and the thing is

that his track alone made it made it disco and this is without hearing the the overdubs of the tom-toms in the hi-hat. So in the final mix, when it turns out to be what it was, and it's some revolutionary-ass shit, were there any concerns? It was just like the adrenaline of the song like, yo, there's nothing like this. And let's go with it.

Let's go with the risk. You know, it's interesting because we always felt special about that song. It's like it just had that thing on it. And I remember putting Ed on that song when we did the track. Because he has a signature sound. You know what I'm talking about this? He has with a kick. And it's kind of a lazy kick, but it's but it's but it's but it's but it worked.

and but that drum beat was was a little bit awkward to say yeah and but now I know like a lot of drummers appreciate that they always say man that drum beat now all the drummers play that beat but um at the time were you concerned when it was being formulated too much of a risk yeah we thought about that a little bit because it wasn't it wasn't right it wasn't Defined, right, right. It wasn't for, on the floor and a hat on two and four, but, but, it's now on two and four, but it, it was a little bit of a risk,

but we were confident in the song of it, like the song. Right. And it was just a groove to us. It was just a groove. What was Sony's reaction to it? When you played it to them, where they're like, okay, this is, Is it or were they too like, hey, this needs to be three minutes and there's no hook. I mean, there's no bridge and the drums are all over the place.

Like where they initially was Bobby like, we don't know? No. They like that song a lot and we like things I do for you. That was a groove to us. Quick question. How much of influence was Jupiter on that song? Things I do for you? Yes.

Jupiter. By Earth, Wind and Fire. That's interesting. Because I want to know why the five minutes later and the 15 seconds later correlation between the two songs. But you know what? It's funny because it's like, for me, All right. Earth, One and Fire, like, at the time, I didn't realize it would just come out of me that way.

Even like a song like All Night Dancing, if you listen to the Isley brothers. But I was listening to a lot of Isley then. So you're like like, do, that is a nice little, okay. Harvets for the world, right? I never, never thought that till right now. Harvets for the world, right?

Oh, shit. It is. All right, now I'm going to listen to it a whole different, right, right. So all those things are like influences. Oh, shit. I never, all right, 40 years later, now I'm just kidding. 40 years later? I get it.

Oh, damn. This is literally why he started this show to find out something exactly like that. Oh, shit. That's crazy. Okay. I have more destiny questions. Okay. Another thing.

Speaking of the title track of Destiny, um, whenever these songs are performed or, one shows when you guys are promoting them. There's always that slow motion moment, which, again, in post-production, when you're watching it, is like the craziest shit ever. But I can only imagine how much leeway are you guys given to,

before you make these appearances on Midnight Special, on Soul Train, or on American Bandstand, or Sunny and Cher, whatever. The production techniques of, of the show. Like, for me, just to just to control our mix on Letterman was like a nightmare. Like, can we please EQ our things?

Can we do that? But you guys are doing actual production. Like, jumping in slow motion and all these things that... It wasn't easy. I know this. How did you guys? I get your question. How?

It wasn't easy. It's like fighting for what we want to do. And a lot of times, you know, they didn't want to do it, but we fought hard. We fought hard for it. Yo, because it was happening at the time where I'm not saying that you guys didn't have leverage, but, you know, these, even when we're watching on YouTube now, these things are like videos. And I always wanted to know what was the conversation that granted you the open door to, okay, this particular part, you're going to slow it down. and we're all going to jump.

It's going to look silly now. But when you do it in slow motion, it's going to look crazy. Yeah. Even like the video was one of the first music videos made was, can you feel it? Right.

Well, actually, blaming on the boogie. Yeah. With a reflection thing. Right. That scared the shit out of me as a kid. Like, I was like, no, literally scared to you. Whose concept was that?

Did they come to you guys? Look, we have this new reflective, Sometimes. How long did it take to shoot that? A day. But a lot of times, Mike would have all these crazy ideas that he wanted to do, and then we talk about it.

He sell us on it, and we were like, that's really cool. Then we all fight for it. But a lot of these guys didn't want to do that. But we fight for it. We'd have to fight for it. And sometimes... You've had to fight for a lot.

Sometimes... Just to what's normal to us now. Exactly. it's normal now, but back in those days You had the five words. But keep in mind, back in those days, like there was no relationship between television and music in those days.

It was separate. Now it's all kind of together. You want to watch a show, you watch it reruns on YouTube or something like that. It's like everything is, it's all social media, it's all communicating and so on some of them. In those days, things were more compartmentalized.

A little bit separate. Yeah, because I feel as though, if I would have done that, I would have been talked out of it. Like, look, man, we don't got a budget. You're asking for a lot. Just go in there and perform it and get out of there. Yeah, pretty much.

So with the triumph record, you, yeah, you're sharing lead with Mike on, can you feel it? You know of that song? You said she was talking about songs. Let me know. Drop the bond.

I love the song that Beazis made called Tragedy. And if you listen to Tragedies, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

do, dung, dung, dung, dung, dung, dung, ching,

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ah, okay,

that's how it came to be. Yeah. You, Mike wrote that together? And Jackie. Damn. Okay. I see. I see now.

I'm sorry. people, I'm like, losing all my poor brain right now. Yeah, man, I'm just like, I'm trying to mean professionalism. But the thing about it is, at the time when you're creating that, I'm not thinking tragedy. Now that I'm, now that I'm older, I think of back, well, that sounds like Harvest for the World. I wasn't thinking about it then. It just came out of me naturally because those were my influences, you know? Dude, I mean, that's how it is.

I mean, hip-hop's more blatant about it because, you know. You literally sample it. But I mean, like, most songs are the ideas of other songs. I mean, James Brown just did the ideas of his own songs. He was his own source, but pretty much. Ah, Jesus Christ, that is mind-blowing to me. Because, yeah, I'll now see because tragedy, in my mind, tragedy is like three horses running in the wild and slow-mos. But it's, like, very triumphant.

Right, exactly. Exactly. So was this created thinking that, okay, when we do this in concert, this is going to be our flag planning? Yeah, yeah. This is going to be our opening. Can you feel it always the opening and the clothes is always shake your body? I see.

I see. Yeah, man. And we'll be right back after Questlow's brain recalagulates. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

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And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same proliferation. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. Which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So even though Triumph is quote produced by the Jackson's Like who's who's holding 51% of the weight Who's Like someone has to be the alpha

To be like okay Make these decisions Or is it always The five of you And I can't imagine that the five of you Were just so damn agreeable Someone has to be like I don't like that idea

When we were When we produced Michael's vocal it'd be the rest of us in that studio producing his vocal. That's how it was. Really? Yeah? So it wasn't like one or two of us

because it's interesting because, no, it was all of us in that room. And Jackie could hear a line or I can hear something or we hear stuff. Now, a lot of times Michael and I would create the song, rewrite the song, but it's all of us collectively that made it magic.

I see. I got to exit, not exit from the studio, but I think we should mention, what is the preparation period of your shows and your performances? Concerts me? Well, in general, like, was there regular? Was it like, okay, Thursday and Friday nights are five hours in the room, rehearsing dance steps?

like how are you guys, how is queerography? So when you guys are prepping choreography, and let's start with choreography, first of all. Is that a long? Yes. Yes, it's a long. No, because the thing about it is like, I didn't really want to dance and move,

but Michael always wanted me to, because I just wanted to play instruments and sing and play. like, I got, don't really, you got to move, come on me, you can dance. Okay. But, but like, like, like, to this day, like our work ethic hasn't changed. Like, Janet, when Janet, and I think a lot of her dancers are always surprised. Like, when she gets ready to go on tour, the way she works is the way we worked 20-something years ago. I mean, it's like, it hasn't changed.

And I think that's like We, you know We take it seriously and we Break for lunch and dinner But we is every day all day And until we tell us right And We take it seriously

So literally for our I mean just give me a rough number All day When you wake up Break for lunch Break for dinner And time you go to sleep The next day

Even post, I mean, assuming that not childhood where, you know, like Motown and your father, whoever is watching rehearsals, but assuming that you guys were just doing this on your own as adults into the Destiny Triumph and it was just straight rehearsals and... I would think... Would they be separated? I mean, would it be like, okay, this is for choreography and this is for music and this is for harmony? Normally I would start with music first And being in the band

We'd start going over the music separately So Jonathan Moffitt Yeah Jonathan Moff was a kid Mike McKinney and all those guys Man These are LA heavyweights Man y'all built

Jonathan Moff was a kid Who He was 17 years old Was he 16 17? 17 He was 17 from New Orleans Okay When did he join you guys?

What year was that? What year was at? What year was that? I sure you know him. I met him twice in my life, but... Yeah. So he was 17 when he first started. Yes.

Okay. So he walked in. He's cool. He was real cool. And he wore his pants at real high. He had some shiny James Bronte on shoes. And he was relaxed. They're like, this dude is too cool to play drums.

You know? He's selling the drums. And it was like, yeah. This guy can play. He plays hard He's solid He's a great concert player Also

David Williams David Williams Can't say enough about him Yeah like where did he come from His His precise guitar playing is just like He's like a machine Where is he from

I can't find anything about him He's from Virginia He's from West Virginia David Williams. Okay. When did he join you guys? East Virginia.

Wait, where is it? Like Norfolk or something like that. Okay. He started. David William was, uh, he had a hit song out. What? With, don't hold back. If it feels good to that.

Don't hold back. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Remember that? In a group or in? Chanson. Was I remember there? He woke that up? Sean song

Yeah he had Uh Da-da-da-da-da-dud-dud-dud do Do do do do do Do you remember that I'll hold back If it feels good Damn

Anything Bill So But David Yeah he can play His sound His rhythm Is so precise in one point His plane

adds a flavor to every track it's like it's just at that little thing that makes it right? Yes. And you notice he always had those guitar licks and all our tracks like

amazing musician. So you two, I know that Wolf. Really? What? You're on discogs right now? Shit. How much?

How much? Dude? How much is it? So, So I'm right on the song Don't Hold Back? Is that it? Damn. It's there.

Chanson. Chanson? Chanson. But they said chancong. Chonson. We got to get that. Yeah. Damn.

So I know Bill Wolf were and... Wow. Who was the tech? Not... Ah, Greg mentioned him. What? James James. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. The one in 83? Is that the one? We got to peep that. Shit. Wait.

I'm like, cop one for me too. Thank you. We're record shopping. We're record shopping and interview with Randy right now. Sorry. So with, with,

with the, with the band and where you, so you, So you would conduct rehearsals and you're the... Yeah. Okay. Music. And then the brothers at the same time

we'd be singing and doing choreography. And I go back and forth. So we have it right. But there must we have it, we just put it together. There it is. I see. Okay. Go ahead.

I'm maybe going a little out of sequence here, or maybe I'm not. The choices of the album titles. I'm sorry. I know you're talking about a lot of stuff. Same. Yeah. triumph, victory, destiny.

That's very good. Was this some kind of a marketing scheme like we're going to just call this thing victory and hope it becomes number one? Or was that just a... It's a very good. We all sit around and we want to make albums

that have to do with positive thinking and power. and there's accomplishment and things like that. So they're all like... And we're going to stand on this 100-foot stone destiny. Like, who conceptualized the album covers in? Because there's like the black version of like Blue Oyster Cult. Yeah, that's CBS Records.

Okay. But we, you know, it's funny because what our Moton influence, we also love rock. music a lot. Yeah, I was going to say, because even now, you're just like, yeah, I went to Dewey's gone there. I went to, do you know, no, no. Like, you were just open to...

Yeah, growing up in Hollywood, heels, you know, I used to walk home from school and George Harris lived like above us at the time, and I seen his big white rose voice and give me a right up to the house where we live below and he'd be up. So, and Bowie and all those guys, they were all, in those days, in those days, everybody was around, same area. You know, so it just, how could you not be influenced about it? You know, how could that not happen? Wow.

That's crazy. This is something that just hit me right now that I totally missed. And the way that Ebony and Jett covered this, it was like, I remember seeing girls like crying to the knee. You got to tell me What happened with the car accident in 1980? What happened was... The first time I've heard of The Jaws of Life,

like the way that... Randy Jackson escapes the jaws of life and da-da-da-da-da. Yeah, they had these hydraulic scissors that cut their car and have to get me out. Because I am, like, the Daredevil. Okay. And I moved out when I was 17.

Okay. And that was like, my brothers can believe that I talked my parents into that. You didn't have to get married or anything. You just moved out. I moved out. And basically I told him, my mom, I said, look, I want to move out.

She's like, what? I said, I want my own place. I said, Mom, I'm going to be AT. I'm going to do it anyway. It's like, I want to live with my fan club. You got the last word on the garbage. It was the middle of life. So.

So I moved out. Right. And I stayed in the Oakwood. You know the Oakwood departments on Burbank? Every band has stayed there. Okay. In L.A. I know where Burbank is.

Yeah. The Oakwood Garden Apartments. And I was staying there. And I remember I was watching the Super Bowl. And I want to say the Rams had just lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Okay. And I was hungry. Yes.

I'm sorry, Pittsburgh fan, but go ahead. Yeah, me too. Clint Swan. I have his jersey. Oh, word? Yeah, man. Shit! Damn.

Okay, go ahead. But then he didn't like it because I dated his ex-wife later. Oh. But at the time, I didn't know it. I didn't know it. He's a great guy. Okay. So, anyway, I was hungry.

Right. And it was raining like crazy. So I'm like, it's nothing in how it. was going to go over to the market and get something to eat. Right. And I'm driving. This is El Sol Mercedes. And it just hit this pothole and started spinning.

It just crashed near the Hollywood Bowl, right there where the Hollywood Bowl is. Yeah. And cars on fire and just yada, yada, yada. And it's so funny because my parents had some friends over. Okay. And they had been over late hanging out. and they were driving home. And my mom said, okay, call us when you get home

because it's raining out. We want to make sure you get home safe to their friends. They said, okay. So he goes home. He calls my mom, and he goes, and so we made it home. He goes, God, we just saw the worst car accident.

What? Yeah. He's like, I hope that person's okay. But it doesn't look good. My mom goes, really? He goes, yeah. Damn. Yeah.

Yo, man. When that news, wait, where were you born? All right. So you're like one. Dog, yeah. It was, yeah, the day that shit hit. It's one of those things that change your life because, like, I flatline and stopped breathing. They had to put those.

To resuscitate you? Yeah. So was that serious? Yeah, it was that serious. So how did you manage it walk? Because I think. I had to learn how to walk all over again. I was paralyzed.

I literally had that. Wheelchair bound or crutches bound? Wheelchair. And I had to start with a pickup one. I remember this Magic Johnson who just started with the Lakers at the time.

And I went to Dr. Curlin who was a trainer for the Lakers to the whole medical facility there and that's where I've received physical therapy and learn how to walk. So the time they're telling you,

you're pretty much not going to walk again. The doctor, I'm never walk again. Wait, but the, the, the, the time lapse between 80 and the recording of the album and Yeah, it's funny because the tour. Yeah. I mean, you're wrestling with your brothers on stage before you

explode them again. It's funny. I said, yeah. That's crazy. Like, after each one of those shows, I was like taking an ice bath. So you were in pain during the Trump show? Yeah, it was painful. But you were dancing your ass off?

Yeah, but it's, it was painful. So I was like, it's swollen and I was icing it still. It's back, Randy Jackson. I just thought, yeah, in my mind, I was just like, wow, it's a miracle. Like, he's back, but not knowing that. Yeah. Oh, man, hats off, man. That is crazy.

Wait, did we... Just me, there's no way I will let my brothers leave me. That's like, we've got to figure this out. Yeah. So I brought... Was that even a question? Was it just like, okay, well... I brought the physical therapist with me on tour.

Sorry, so we had them on tour. I was like, there's no way. make this happen. You made it happen. Yeah. I mean, you're doing the... In one of the mind, I'm playing like the working day and night

twisty thing and... Oh, the twisty piano? No, just the... The jumping thing and all that. I'm like, you're... Okay, you did it. What was your... Of the tours that you've done with your brothers,

what was your favorite? The tour... before the Destiny Tour. Wait in my head. So there's victory. There's Triumph. There's Destiny Part 2,

which sort of like kind of off the wall, and then there's the Destiny Tour. Yeah. The Destiny Tour I liked, Stacey Ladisaw was, I think, opening up for us. First one I saw it, yeah. You were there? You saw that?

Yeah, Philly. Triumph 81 was Stacy last one. She was really nice. I enjoyed that tour. LTT was... Yeah, that's right. LTT was a...

They're bad. LTID. Okay, so Jeffrey was on our show and I always wanted to know usually with opening acts and big production, it's problematic, especially with technology being the way it was

and LTT being a damn near 11 member group. how how much of a nightmare scenario is it when acts are opening for you guys and it's okay we have to kill our set and bring there you know it's always been with my brothers

with us on tour it's always like family you know so it was never an issue but LTD they used to come to our house and hang out all the time anyway so I was born and his brother They would just say come to the house. My mom make food for everybody.

You guys were cool, everybody. I'm like, were you guys cool with the Osmond's? Yeah, there's to come over too. My mom makes food for everybody. He's like, family. All right, can you name one act that you guys were just like, I don't know, Tavares, y'all go back to Boston? Tavares, too.

For real? Yeah. Actually, what, were there relations with any other other bands your age because I think of the five stair steps or the silvers five steps for friends. Come over all the time back in the day. Silver's too. Leon. I spoke to Leon the other day.

He did our show. Great people. Talented, man. That's really good. Great humble guy, huh? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So just you guys were Switzerland, I'm not to say Stockholm or

Geneva. Geneva, I'm sorry, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. You're welcome. So you guys were just neutral zone. There was never a competition like, we got to.

No, we, we, you know. Those are our lasers. Whenever we toured, like, LaBelle opened up for us, we were kids. And even with Patty, it's like, Patty's to braid our hair. Patty used to braid me and Michael's hair. Really? Yeah, before we were on the stage. Those back and those.

days. I was going to say maintaining afros. Because Patty could do hair. She could do it. She could do it. It's cooked too. Wait, what do you say again? Great story, Bill. Thanks. No, one has to braid hair to keep their Afro full. Right? So you guys would have to do that as well.

This is one of the rare times where my afro's out. Normally, just so I can make it through life or whatever, like, I braid it. See? He braids it. Yeah, so, okay. So even so there was cornroll era Jackson Yeah

Now we have those big ducky braids I see That's how that's how Okay that's good to know Because I just thought like Oh you guys woke up like this Like

Like full Afro every day No bedhead No Yeah Little did I know Okay I see that So the period

The post the post triumph period that leads to the victory tour during that time was a really fun time like from triumph to victory

that whole so between 81 and yeah because you had that off the wall were you part of any of the pre-production of what will become thriller only because what was his name

Geneva shut up Steve what's his name what's his name all right he used to have like a like an urban report

is it Steve Ivory I think it's Steve Ivory Steve Ivory no but he was like an apprentice under Lee Bailey All right so this cat named Steve Ivory does this I know what Steve I reads

Is everyone? Yeah, well, okay, so he He's at Encino and in the studio with you guys This is pre this is like What is this? This is 81, so I'm assuming

that this is what's leading to be Well, yeah, because he says specifically for Michael's new solo record So Thriller's not even a thought But what will become that and it's the article is more about the technology that they're discovering

and I believe that a lindrum first makes its appearance in this thing and so he's like describing like you know now a drummer is inside a machine and not needed for da da da da da and my like reading this I'm like yo like the jacksons have some futuristic

just naming these like synthesizers and someone I don't know who the engineer was at Havenhurst at the time that was working. He was like, well, one day, you know, they'll invent machines that will correct your singing. And everyone in the room is like, no, that'll be the end of music and da-da-da-da-da. But if I could find this article, it's almost like you guys are talking about what's going to happen in 40 years in music. But joking like, that'll never happen.

But you know in those days? I mean, yes. I mean, like, like I said, like we didn't really think about, like, if I was doing something, I needed a base part. Germain, what are you doing? Come on and play this part right quick. It's like, that's what it was like. So even after he left the group, he was still active and?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's how it was. And we, you know, we wouldn't really, we just, it's just what it was. I see. Can you, can, like, can you tell. those of us who don't know every single thing about you already.

Sorry. What your contributions were to Off the Wall? Yeah. Credited, non-credited. Non-credited. Come on now. We know what time is. Yeah.

Either one. Wow. Well, first of all, I mean, you're there. We've heard the working day and night demo. That was hilarious, by the way. Yeah. Was it always like that? See how much my best.

playing struggle. Like, I could hear these parts of my head. That's you playing that line? Yeah. But playing them as like walking and chewing gum. I can hear the bass on it. And the same thing with the, don't stop pegging enough. Do do, do, do, do do do do do do.

So this time, can I assume that he's singing you what he hears in his head? Who? Michael. Michael would sing. Michael didn't know chords. Okay. So he's singing to you. Singing the melody, what he wants to be like, and I try to create.

And the harmony was happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's how it happened. I see. Yeah, we did the credit thing. Yeah, but it was like, my whole thing is like percussion and. Were those Coke bottles? Yeah, percussion.

But I also play percussion on the. keyboards. Like, Marvel Fattahle, in those days, and I didn't realize it at the time, but it was very percussive in a way, just the grooves. Right. Yeah. Yeah, there were Avion and Coke bottles. Yikes, okay. And I remember because when they went to record that song in the studio, for some reason, they couldn't recreate that saying groove. Even though demos aren't perfect, they, they They often have a feel that you just can't recreate. Do you get demoisitis? Yeah.

So, um, how come, how come, I went to studio. Okay. And I brought in my bottles. And, uh, okay. And that's what we did on, on the song. Okay. Then it had that swing to it.

Dink, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So that's you doing it, not pulling into the constant. Okay. I see. I see. How, of all of your siblings, who are you the closest to? Janet and I have always been close. Just real little.

You're like, you'd be hard-pressed to find a photograph, a family shop that I'm in, that Janet's not somewhere near me. She'd like follow me around. Yeah, we'd fight like cats and dogs, but couldn't stand to be away from Jenna. At the same time. I see. Me, Janet, and Michael was pretty much a clique because you were the three youngest. We hung out all together all the time.

And then Jermaine and Tito were cliques because they play guitars. They were cliques. Jackie kind of did his own thing. And Monna did his own thing. But yeah, Jermaine and Tito was kind of a click because the whole guitar thing.

And, you know, with the Walton, with John McLean, with the same school and all that kind of stuff. Shit. Another, yeah, I got it. It's like the ninth John McLean episode. All right, John.

Let me get you one day, pal. Trust me. So for, I know that there weren't immediate plans after the triumph album. So the preparation for Motown 25. What was that into? What was that like? It's funny because when we did Motown 25. Did you have a relationship with Suzanne DePest?

to that of your brother's like But I didn't know I was going to be doing that show until the day of that show. Wait, what? Okay. Wait, what? It wasn't expected that.

I didn't know it to the day of that show. During that show, I was wasted out of my mind from dental surgery. And you can probably notice and right after that, we did USA for Africa. Mm-hmm.

And I was still recovering from dental surgery. Like I had a serious operation, and I was like loopy. Really? Yeah. And, but I wouldn't get that show, we didn't get the other one. I see. The preparation, the victory album for me feels more distorting it, as in, here's our solo projects on this one album.

So I'll ask about your song. And also Austin asked me to ask me to ask. you about Phil Collins' reaction to one more chance. He also said he probably won't tell you, but ask him anyway. He told me two questions to ask you. He said that you were in the car with Michael and Michael first heard when doves cry in the Rolls Voice. He says, tell the When Doves Cry, Rolls Voice story and the Phil Collins'

One More Chance story. No. Oh, okay. It's cool. Awesome. It's amazing. You know, when, you know, when one more night came out, I got a phone call from then CBS. Right.

And they wanted to sue. Wait, wait. He was trying to come at you? No, CBS wanted to sue Collins for one more night. One more night came out after. Oh. It came out after. Shit. Okay.

But I had heard from, um, Nathan East. Yeah. I think Nathan East told me, someone else told me that Phil Collins really loved one more chance. He loves that. That's like his favorite song he plays it all the time. And one time I was in, a long time when I was in Rex Hall Pharmacy, you know the one on the corner of La Ciena and Beverly.

You've seen it. Okay. I don't know. Right across the Beverly Center. Mm-hmm. And Phil Collins walked in. We're in the same aisle. And he goes, hey, you're, hey, you're a...

Hey, you're in. I said, hey, you're Phil Collins. He goes, yeah. And he goes, you know. No, I'm sorry. That was me. Sorry. Yeah, he left at me. I'm sorry. You guys are funny.

No, no, I had to. Go ahead, go ahead. So he says, he wrote that tune one more chance. I go, yeah. He goes, he has a nice tune. He said, I like it. And he said he has a song coming up. That was influence by that.

He's a, I remember that album, face value. I played that album. Jack Require. Oh, face value. His first one. Yeah, man. I played that album forever. He was in the air tonight.

Yeah. When I first count, he was a brilliantly talented guy. But I told CBS, no, I can't assume. It's just music. I never connected to two. First of all, there's major similarities. in the music, but second of all, it's called One More Night.

Besides, title. I know, but if you're gonna steal something, change the fucking title more than that. You know, like, one more chance, one more night.

But for me, it's like, it's just music. It's not mine that came from God. But he took the production, too. Like, the background vocals, and the reverb choice,

it's very, from an engine's perspective. Yeah. It's very influenced. I'm not saying just because you're here. One more chances of a favorite join on the victory album.

Wait, hold on. What? Really? Thank you. Yeah, it should have been a contender. It really should be. I brought Janet's cover on. What made her want to do that?

That's always been their favorite song. Yeah. It's, it should have been in contender, man. It should have been in contender. What? were you why didn't you say that for

your solo I mean I don't know it's kind of weird because it's like when you're in the Jackson's you have to keep the legacy and the brand alive but by that point you guys are all stars

and even in my mind I'm like yo this would have been this would have been a highlight on his solo record I don't know it's like It was the song that I'd written at that particular time. How come it wasn't a single? It's a good question.

Because when CBS wanted to sue Phil, I said, no. I said, I don't want to be involved with suing somebody over song. It should have been a single. I said, don't, you know, don't sue them. It should have been. Yeah. He recognized it was a good song. right exactly um how why weren't any of the songs ever performed on the tour what song any of the

songs on the victory um you know what that's a very good question because after that tour was over i thought to myself why don't we record any of the songs from victory yeah i mean torture body, I mean, it would have been, you know. Yeah. I thought maybe perhaps, like, you guys were translating the Triumph tour for the bigger audience that had coming to play. When prepping that tour, was it just an unspoken thing? Like, this has to be the biggest thing ever. Like, we have to outdo literally anyone that's ever.

It's funny because... And it's so weird because in hindsight, like at the time, it was controversial and everybody was brouhaha and $30 a ticket. Keep at $30, like $30. I'll put it this way. I just... Drake is charging $300 for Madison Square Garden,

and I got to buy four of them things for my assistant. So $1,200 to see Drake at MSG versus $30 victory tour. I know this is the difference between 84. inflation in 2018, but I'm just, yeah, but I'm just saying that, but for the hell that you guys were put through to execute this tour, in hindsight, do you still, do you have any regrets about it or? No, in fact, because it literally set the standard for where we are now.

A lot of people didn't want us to do that tour. A lot of people said it couldn't be done. No black acts were doing things like that. So I got like five stadium nights, seven nights at Dodger Stadium. Can you speak on that? Because the thing is, is that watching young, we just think like, oh, the Jackson's could do anything. And yet the constant narrative I hear is that we have.

We had to fight for it. We had to fight for it. We had to fight for it. It always that, you know. So just to get a seat at the table. Yeah. What? It wasn't that we thought, we didn't think we were better than everybody else.

We never thought that, but just, it was just our quest for always being the best that we could be and to do more. We were never satisfied with ourselves. We always wanted more. We always wanted to do better and do more. And, and, um, that's just how we were. grew up. And, but I remember specifically the Victory Tour in the meetings we had before the tour when we said what we wanted to do, coming off of like five, six straight multi-platinum albums consecutively from Destiny to Triumph, to Off the Wall, you know, all these albums, Thriller.

I said, okay, this is what we want to do. And they said, it's never you'll be able to do. they're not going to come out. Wait, they said they're not going to come out? Mm-hmm. I said it. Seriously? Yeah. And my father said, uh, he said, no.

He said, no, they'll be there. And I think, uh, Don King at the time helped to make that happen. So with his presence and again, now, now I'm realizing the- Couldn't have happened without Don King. Really? Yeah. So, okay, so with that, so my, Modern promoters and rock, they were, was there such thing as Al Haman back in 84 and

Al Hamon got to start. Or was he small potatoes? Al Hamon got a start for my father. My father. Were? Yeah. My father was always like, I want to make sure the black guys have a chance in promoting. So he'd always, you know, get a black guys a shot, you know, because in those days,

they wouldn't, they wouldn't let black promoters, promote even black acts. He still had that problem today. Yeah. Right? Yeah, you do. Yeah. So, and, um, but he would always saw Al Heyman was a young Harvard grad who. Right.

Yeah. Does the name Shep Gordon mean anything to you? Sheff's a good friend of ours. Really? The good friend of the show. Yeah, I'm going to, after this interview tonight, I'm going to Shep's house. I tell him hi. Okay.

Oh, sorry. That's why I beg for this. That's why I beg for this. That's why I begged for the interview 12th afternoon. I'm going straight to the airport. But in my mind, he was the Black Whisper. Yeah. You know, got Teddy out of his situation and what I.

And I mean, at the time, what was it about Freddie DeMond? Where does Shep live now? Am Ily. Oh, okay. Wow. You go to Hawaii, huh? Yes. Going to chill for a few days and like.

Yeah. Look, if it were up to me, I'd work 20. 24-7. That's cool. Take a break, bro. Go to Hawaii. Shut up, Steve. All right, but wait, did you guys ever take vacations in the heyday of the Jackson?

No. Yeah, it's... You don't take vacations. Yeah, yo, because when you never know when it'll stop or whatever. Like, you got to keep going and rest. Was there ever any fear of... Okay, I guess now I can bring up the Prince issue. what was the general feelings about Prince's

wait what was the Prince story and the world's voice I forget some of these things I remember when Doves Cry Like your general feelings is a prince did you Honestly like his music and I did okay I wasn't that crazy about Doves Cry When I first heard it It was a risky song Yeah I mean it's a great song

But at the time I wasn't it just I mean I like the other stuff First of all, genius prince. Right. An amazing talent. But Dove Cry wasn't one of my favorites. It was the other stuff that I like.

Okay. Soft and wet. But did he, I mean, was his, was he? No. But to Michael it was. It's like, like, I mean, pre-MTV embracing Prince or like, I'm talking about Prince just before MTV. Because obviously once.

your brother breaks the barriers at MTV. Then MTV was like, oh, what other cool black people can be? Yeah, yeah. Lionel and Prince and da-da-da-da-da. Yeah. And now, okay, now the elevator's crowded. But before then, was it even a thought? I mean, like, is your sister's even covered?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I love, I feel for you. Okay. But Doves Cray wasn't one of my favorites. Oh. But I love everything else. Were you at the house in Havenhurst when he visited? No, but he always used to call up.

You would call up? Yeah. Like, wanted to talk to Latoya. And I would always, like, hang up on people. He was God blocked. Yeah, I'd give him a hard time. But because Prince would call up and be like, yeah, Latoya. I'm like, who is this?

Never say hello. He was like, yeah, like, LaToy. He has a deep voice. It was like, Latoya. I'd be like, okay, click. For real? Yeah. LaToy, you get mad at me.

I wasn't ready for that. I wasn't ready for that. She would get mad at me, but, you know. I wasn't ready for that. I have hung up on many of her boyfriend, so I was that kid. Bobby DeBars too? Bobby, too. Oh, yeah.

Bobby, I get him in the worst time. Really? Yeah. Oh, dear. Okay, so you're a family pit bull. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, okay.

You do the same to your sisters? Oh, no. You know, get my sisters out there also. I can have free reign. That was my M.O. So, okay, so you're moved to A&M with Randy, the, Randy and the Gypsy's project. Did McLean side you in Anna?

Yeah. Okay. So why did it take you... Wait, that came out in 80s... 89. At the time, Anna was being sold to Universal. Okay.

And that whole project was done. But everybody, like, you know, like when it... In those days, when a record label was being sold, people wouldn't even do want to go in the office anymore. that means that they're going to consolidate and downsize a lot of people would lose their jobs so a lot of people just didn't work and the record didn't get worked and it took a I'm surprised even got done but it was like at that time and um was basically had basically cashed out and they moved to universal so because it was a transitional period it got lost in the interesting yeah yeah

really well we were on MCA at the time when MCA had just gotten sold to the label so it's

to Geffen and Interscope so we had an album that suffered yeah that happens in those transitional periods people get laid off and people

you know all right so before I wrap up the show I would like to take a different angle. Can we hear a... Do you have a story of you

and your brother, Michael, just a normal... Just something that we don't know. Like, you guys, you know, have three-point shootout contest or... Oh, yeah.

Or just something that we don't know about you and your brother's relationship. It was music, martial arts. We were not. Martial arts? We all want to be Bruce Lee. Actually, I was about to say.

We actually had Bruce Lee's brother who was our trainer teaching us. What? So we had good training. Yeah. I was going to say on that Soul Train episode, there's a clip of Randy on crutches. And Joe actually says that Don says, well, what has? happened to Randy and Joe's like Randy's a kung fu cat

so and it's, where did you kick your foot through the window or something? Yes, Shardor. Oh. Oh. So the future for you now in developing your label.

Is this, this is full circle now. Now you're a motel. Well, it's funny because for me, I try to keep it as organic as possible and even with Janet because we

partnered on everything and with this new song that was on your show but for me we just want to be natural about it there's for for Rhythm Nations

a label we're not going to sign a lot of people because we want to, whoever we sign, we want to make sure it does it well. And there's a girl from Wells who's touring with her, name is Rebecca James. Okay. She's a girl can come in this room.

She's 21, come in this room and make magic happen all by herself. Really? But she writes and sings gospel. So when I first heard, I didn't believe it was her. And I said, well, come to my house. I'm going to hear you play and sing. in person and live.

So she did it and it says, okay, I played it for Janet, and Jenna goes, Randy, we need that voice on stage and back up. So she's touring with Janet and we're working on her album right now. Wow. She's really talented.

He's an amazing songwriter. So he'll be hearing about her. Rebecca James, yeah. From Wells. All right. But that's it. We're just, you know, to me, music is a gift from God.

We all have this gift. It's an amazing gift and that God gives us to help bring the world together. And that's just not, I'm not trying to be like, but it's true. It's like, music makes you feel good, you know? It's like, right?

It does. Yeah, it's like, I mean, I love drums. I love instruments. I still love going to the music store and playing the different drums. You like doing that too. It's like, it's still fun. I do.

Yeah, right? It is. It's like playing, right? It's playtime. Go to the store. I was about to say, do you still play drums? Yeah. How come you never played drums as opposed to bongas?

Because I did play drums. I played drums. Like, I trained foot in the beginning when it came to us. First, I started playing drums. Then we played percussion because Johnny was playing drums. Right. So I just went to percussion. Oh, okay.

In keyboards. But yeah. You could have been Johnny. I prefer drums. Okay. now I know that yes and then we're at

as a lot of things happen with that whole victory album the whole concept literally the cover there was a dub on your soldier there was

and then in later pressings the dove is going really you guys notice everything also like like the white glove thing that Michael the way that happened was That's an interesting story. So Bill Whitten, who does our wardrobe,

he had this white glove for Jackie to wear. Jackie says, man, I'm not wearing a white glove. Jackie took the glove off and threw it at Michael. He goes, man, you wear this. I'm not going to wear it. That's how it happened. No, one glove. Just one glove.

Michael put the jacket. Jackie's where you dance, you wear his glove, Michael. So Michael put it on. He said, I'm wearing it. That's how that happened. That's the mic drop. statement. Thank you. Randy, I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. Another episode of anemic Supreme with St. and boss bill. Shout out to Fonte, Laya, and unpaid bill.

We will see you on the next round. Thank you very much. This was Questlove Supreme, only on Pandora. All right. West Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced

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