The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Rosario Dawson

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Actress, producer and activist Rosario Dawson talks about getting discovered for the film Kids on the streets of Brooklyn, the costs of being outspoken and working with artists like Spike Lee, Prince, Outkast and more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Questlove, and you're listening to a QLS Classic. This is from February 7, 2018. We talked to our friend Rosario Dawson about her acting career and her political activism. We did this in Los Angeles at Sunset Sound Studios, where a lot of 1999 in Purple Rain was recorded. So, yeah, it would be a good time to go back with our friend Rosario Dawson. Of course, love Supreme Classic.

Here we go. Supreme A Roll Call. Always in my hair. Yeah She's always on my back Yeah She's Uh

Yeah Miss Fonte Yeah I do not beg Yeah Rosario's in kids Yeah I have no legs

My name is sugar Yeah And I'm unstoppable Yeah Just like that train Yeah And unstoppable You're ready

For worse This time Never Supreme Robo Fox bills in L.A. Yeah That's the scenario

Yeah And it's time Yeah to interview Rodario. Roca. Supraima, sub, sub, sub-soprima, roll car. Supraima, sub-soprima,

sub-sopria, yeah. With the original La La La La La. She fights with my rights? Yeah. Aunt looks good in the shower. Roll car. Oh, H-R.

Supremea Role car. You're like, what are? Sub-Sup in here. Supremma Role Car. Conceived on Avenue X. Yeah. That's why I flex. Yeah.

Brooklyn in the house. Yeah. Fly like Mickey Mouse. Roll call. All right. Superima, sub, sub, subriva. So prima. Subriva.

See you, sweet feet. Yeah. I'm just saying. She's smart and she's sexy. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, this took me back to like high school because it was like, so immature.

Here we go yoke. Here we go, yeah. What's up for Zario? Like I used to hear that all the time. I didn't have my like, O'Iisha. So, like, that was never going to happen. But there used to be a couple songs where I was like,

that kind of rhymes. So thanks, y'all, thank you. The kids one, I'm sorry. I don't know if y'all take turn. Damn. Clearly. I hate you. That was on that reference, man.

I was going to make it. Clearly, like, everything. Did you know? Pop-five. You knew instantly that was going to be your... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You was too quiet. You was too quiet in the corner. I'm like, what did you got up your sleeve? No, as soon as we found we were going to have her, that was my first one. It was either that one or it was going to be a 25-hour reference, because that's like probably one of my favorite movies of yours. I really loved your performance in that. Thank you.

That was crazy. You got Harmony written on your arm. Yes, indeed. It's Harmony's birthday today or was just yesterday something like that actually. Harmony, Harmon. Corinne. Corinne. Oh, Harmony.

Oh, damn. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So many. Actually, how do you say his last name? How do you say his last name? Corinne? Okay.

I've been, I've been saying it wrong for the last 15, whatever years. Let me let our audience. It's 23 years. Wait, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to, welcome to my, uh, Another episode of Questlove Supreme. Of course, Love, we're here with Team Supreme. It's Laia, Sugar Steve, and Boss Bill and Fonigolo. Yep.

And today, we have a good friend. Was it, Ms. Aviam? Yes. We have, what's up? What's up, Rosario? Yay! We have actress, producer, and director and singer and philanthropists and political activists and humanitarian. And Nueva, New Yorker.

Nueva Yorker. Nueva Yorker. A New Yorkian. New Rican, New Yorkan. Oh. Borinqueenia. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Rosario Dossi.

Boreka, thank you. Ah. Yeah. Great. Thank you, Jesus. Thank you for coming through. This is a very last minute request, but you came through. I appreciate it.

Anytime, boo. Love you. Where are you from in California? I'm not from in California. Well, I mean, you're here a lot, though. Yeah, I live here now. Yeah, so. I'm in the West Side.

Okay. I'm from Brooklyn. I'm raising the low. We east. But are you from New York the way that I'm from Philadelphia? What does that mean? No, I'm from New York. I'm a New York.

I still got my 911. I'm there all the time. The last five shows that I did for Marvel were all in New York. I was flying back and forth. It was insane. Oh, man. I'm always there. There's still people who think that I live there.

Okay. What I'm saying. I live on a plane. Out of your New York residents and your California resident. where are where's the majority of your undergarments located? That's a very specific question.

What are those? Whoa. Can I get some berry white? Can you get some very white? Say what? Can I get some berry white real quick? I'm sorry. Yeah, what are those anyway?

No, for real. Thank you for doing this for us. Absolutely. So New York, you said Brooklyn. Yeah. I thought you were, see, once again, I'm always wrong. Roll. What you said?

No, I thought you were always Alphabet City. Yeah, I was raised there. But you were born in Coney Island? Yep, and conceived on Avenue Wicks. Wow. So he got gang, was like home. Yes, I had actually been in Lincoln High School as a little fetus in my mom's belly. When she was attending there, her brothers went there as well.

and she got pregnant with me when she was 16, and because she got gestational diabetes, she kept passing out all the time. So she ended up falling down the stairs and having to quit school, and then she got her, what she calls good enough diploma, her GED. And 18 years later,

I'm doing a movie with Spike Lee, and I'm in Lincoln High School, and I got to be back all those years later, sort of validating her and vindicating her, yes, you know, and everything and all the sacrifices she went through. It was a really powerful moment, actually. How long were you there for?

I mean, before you moved to... We moved to Manhattan, probably when I was like five or five. But I was always there because that's where all my family still was. So we went back all the time. A lot of my memories are in Coney Island, actually. So, okay, can you explain... You've talked about living in Lower Manhattan before, but... Yeah.

Can you just... Because I never understood the whole squatting thing. So how did that work in the... the early 90s or the late 80s? Well, we moved there when I was around 6 and lived in this railroad apartment on Avenue A. And it was like rat infested and just like there was a lot of problems with it.

And there were a bunch of squats in the neighborhood, a lot of buildings that had been abandoned. And my very tenacious young parents were like, well, we could do something about this. There's a space that's open. There's no other families in there. It does no water heater electricity. but dad does construction.

Mom learned how to do plumbing, so they put in a sewage line. The squatters who had been living there for two years were literally pissing in buckets and taking showers with the fire hydrant for two years before we moved in. And we've transformed that. And that was the building that I was discovered in.

So you guys literally just transformed the entire block. Well, bit by bit, a lot of the squatters and people who survived that era. You know, it was a really crazy. crazy, scary, beautiful experience of just people who came from all around the world and artists and struggling artists and just all types of other people who were just really marginalized or people who were really going through it and drugs and all types of things and just, you know, willing to, you know, create a culture in the Lower East Side because no one else wanted

to be there. And so even though there was like one working street lamp on the block and there there was no reason to call the cops because they would not come. There was, you know, great music and art and personalities and things that were coming out of it that ended up transforming the neighborhood. So it's the reason why it's so gentrified now because people, you know, the storytelling of that space gave us everything from rent to, you know, CBGBs. You know, like it's just the impact of New York at that time and, you know, Basquiat and all of those different people. who in so many different spaces just transformed what the idea of that neighborhood was,

which is one of the reason why I'm so proud to come from it. You know, when I grew up, it was the sort of idea of like, get out. But for me, it's, you know, I recognize that all of those people, no sacrifices and all that art and all those wonderful things that were created when it was at its, not necessarily its best, but that was the best for me because it was, you know, block parties. So it was a beautiful and powerful experience and place to come from that I think, prepared me for everything else that I've encountered in life.

So how does the, so how does, legal-wise, how does the city acknowledge that? Years ago, it became a building that came under U-Hab. So a lot of other buildings became co-ops or got ownership in different ways. You-Hab took over the building many years ago, but did not fully pay its taxes and do all these different things. So the building was everyone was almost evicted. fairly recently about two, three years ago.

And I got a lawyer for everybody in the building. And now they've all just moved in in November as homeowners. For the first time, after 32 years. Well, for some people, 34 years. Wow. Yep. Man, you took action. Yep.

That's crazy. So your story is that Larry Clark had Anne Harmony together. Yeah, Larry Harmony. It was the cinematographer. It was some of the other crew members. They were scouting for locations on the block. They ended up actually shooting down the block, which is fairly unrecognizable

because when they're calling up, oh my God, I'm so bad. Why am I forgetting her name? Darcy. They're in the calling up for Darcy. When you see the building that she was in that she comes out of the window is still there, but when you look across at them downstairs

calling from her up or below, there's this empty lot that's behind her, which is now a building. but so they shot down that block and had they not shot in the neighborhood I probably would not have been in that movie and not sitting in front of you right now they were initially they were initially shooting and they were scouting for locations oh scouting yeah and by that point did you have any acting experience or aspirations to the arts or not so much I mean I had written my first song when I was six and I grew up around artists who are either poets or photographers or actors my uncle's a comic book artist you So I grew up around people who were artists, but also most of them having to do another job. And it just being this thing that they did because they loved it, but they weren't necessarily financially compensated for it. So when I got actually the opportunity, because when I was discovered, I was discovered for an audition. I had to audition for the role.

And I loved it. And it was amazing. But I remember just kind of feeling like this is not going to go anywhere. But I had to take advantage of the opportunity because I grew up with people who I knew would have fought. and killed, or not killed, but they went upon were such an opportunity. And, you know, not gone. Because of Larry's unconventional style and the way that his art is, how does this fly with your mom?

Oh, I mean, my dad came with me on the audition. And Larry leans out and goes, is that your boyfriend? I'm like, that's my dad. Oh, God. Jesus. And, you know, I remember we went doing an rehearsal at Harmony's place. No, it was at Larry's place and Hart and, I can't remember, but it was a bunch of photos from Tulsa,

which was this photography book that Larry had done in a drug den. And sort of just being like, interesting girl people I'm working with. And my parents, I was 15, I had just turned 15. And my parents, the only thing that they balked at was that my character was supposed to be smoking, but they didn't ask to change, they didn't ask to change any lines. They didn't, they let me go to, you know,

biked over to White Street to like go and to you know audition and um white street in the weemsburg well it's like Tribeca I remember just Tribeca it was somewhere like around that area and I remember my bike got stolen I went on the very first day I went to do rehearsal I came back out and my bike was gone and then I like walked around trying to see if I needed to like grab my bike out went to different bike stores to see if some junkie had sold it or whatever and I was like Jesus I'm like walking on by myself at 15 and my parents were like that sucks congratulations. You got a job.

You're a new yorker. You're official in New York. Your official. Yeah, like that movie came out of nowhere and really kind of, well, one, it was a star maker for you, but just what was the effect, the after effect of the movie? Because we'd never. It was unlike anything that we had ever seen before. I mean, that was.

Yeah, no Clueless was supposed to be the film that, like, was supposed to, established like the next generation, but kids was the film that really established like, oh. Kids was Snapchat 20 years ago. Yeah. Like that was what social media looked like. Yeah, that shit was crazy. It's amazing how much that movie doesn't work today because, I mean, you know, the whole premise of just trying to find someone, you would just sort of like see where they tagged themselves in their last social media post is. or um but it's a beautiful um moment that got sort of captured of what new york doesn't look

like that anymore kids you know the the lot of the same behaviors are going on but there's just a different energy around it that um i just feel so glad that that got immortalized actually because that was a lot of what my childhood looked like and it's um and there was a lot of beauty to it it was a lot of you know did you know those guys like violence and abuse and just dangers and being a latchkey kid and all these different kinds of things. But the fact that still all these years later, I have parents who come up to me and go, that opened my eyes to the world and what my personal experience was.

And I did so many things afterwards to protect myself. And this is the movie I decided to sit down with my teenager now to start this conversation. That's the after school special. I'm like, why? That's a little rough. I can't imagine watching my mom. My daughter's 14.

I can't imagine watching that movie with her. It's weird now because, I mean, it's just back then when you're watching it, It came out, what, 95? Mm-hmm. Like, it's so much more extreme now that kids seems rather tame in comparison. Mm-hmm. And, well, you know, it's, I mean, it's still real, but I'm just saying that it's even crazier now, some 20-plus years later. Mm-hmm.

That you disagree with me? No, no, no. I'm following you. I see what you're going on. Oh, oh. But I'm, well, yeah, I'm just saying that. how do you how do you feel that it's fared

in time like as I think the reason why I still resonates with people is because it feels so honest and raw and there was just it was a different time there wasn't like the movie was made to be a cult classic or made to make a whole ton of

money or like you know it was really about sort of revealing and capturing a moment and I think that honesty is something that still resonates I look at Princess Nokia video and I'm like, kids. I look at, you know, like I see how much it's carried on for so long and it, and it, it, it's, uh, made precious and beautiful, something that was not ordinarily looked at as precious or beautiful. That is now, I think, continued after all of these years, just feeling like something really authentic and powerful and, and just as necessary as sort of like this super filtered way of looking at things that we have now, where everything is so like glossy. or whatever.

How much of that was... How much of it was, like, scripted and how much of it was kind of ad-lib? Because it feels that part, I think, why it resonates so much, is because parts of it feels like a documentary. Like, some of it is like... Like, Sidious.

It is based on... Harmony wrote that when he was 19. He locked himself into a room for about two, three weeks, and wrote it out. And it was based on all of the experiences he'd had with all of his skater friends and just folks in Washington Square Park

and all just the people that they knew. How was he at the time? They just put it all, 19. So they put it all together as one story in one day, which is, that's what makes it so outrageous. But almost everything that happened in the movie is actually stuff that actually had happened to one or himself or his friends. And then he just dramatized it. But that's why I think it also resonates because there is truth to it. And then on top of that, everyone was a non-actor.

I'd never acted before. Chloe had never. Chloe was his best friend. He'd written it for her. They had cast someone else who was an actual. actress that then they fired and then hired Chloe like the weekend before we started shooting and it was just everyone you know just real skater kids harold everybody just just Justin it was just all of us just like chilling and hanging with each other and the language was written by a friend

who you know spoke like a teenager and so we all it just felt really like there wasn't anything about it that felt really in organic I was in high school this is how the kids were talking it made sense so it didn't feel like acting I had been shakin shakespeare I think everyone would have I've been sweating. So you're saying that Harmony was four years older than you at the time. Yeah, at the time. Okay, that's what I meant. Like, I needed a reference for how much older than he was than the actual cast he was writing before.

Okay, so he was a teenager himself when he wrote it. Do you guys still have a relationship? Everybody, like, you know, at least the team who was together most every day, especially like Chloe and is there like a sound? Yeah, we see each other. We, like some folks more than others. I mean, unfortunately, we've also lost quite a few people. Besides Harold, you died.

Justin. Played Casper. What? Yeah, he killed himself. Yeah, years ago. Oh, shit, I didn't know it. Because then he was in the other one, the Ken Park, that I think Larry directed.

Oh, with Tiff. Yeah, that shit was crazy. Yikes. So I'll see Leo. I'll see, you know, you see people, and it's awesome that, you know, so many of them are still working or doing different things and becoming parents or, you know,

it's just, it's a pretty wild journey, I have to say. It's a interesting foundation to start relationships with. Yes. The soundtrack for that movie was really great, too. Daddy never understood. So how did you jumpstart your actual career from that film? Like, did you instantly just get an agent and like, okay, why this isn't a one-off for me? I can do this for real.

Well, I'd only worked on the film about four days. And then I got it. Yeah. And then I got like $1,000, I think, for working on the movie. I'm rich, but of course, my parents took it. Right. And because I was 15. And then we went to Texas because my dad's extended family was there and he hadn't seen them for years and my mom would go on vacation. It was the summer. So we ended up going on vacation and moving to Texas because my mom was always trying to get out of New York. What city? To Garland right outside of Dallas. Oh, man.

So I ended up two weeks, three weeks after, you know, rapping, moving to Garland, Texas. And then doing all of that and, you know, glamour shots and, you know, winter ball and all of that interesting stuff. And I took a theater 101 class because I, you know, was like, I did this movie. And it was kind of cool. I didn't tell anyone I did the movie, but I had to have this experience that I really liked that I thought maybe I should explore some more. And then I got this call from Larry and Harmony saying that they had a photo shoot with Harper's Bazaar. and that they wanted all of us to come back to New York for the shoot. And I didn't realize they had put me as the K in the kids on the poster.

So they really wanted me back and had taken them a really long time to track me down to Texas. They're like, what the fuck you're doing in Texas? And then they'd had this already done this midnight screening at Sundance that had just made everyone super excited about it, put a lot of buzz on it. So then they flew me out to New York. I was now 16. and I did this photo shoot for Harper's Bazaar, and then I decided I did not want to go back to Texas,

so I convinced my parents to let me stay in New York without them and got roommates and finished up high school. And I ended up getting an agent from kids. How was that conversation? See, the reason why they even let me do the movie in the first place is I had already been babysitting for years. I had been tutoring for years. I ended up becoming a pre-calculus and calculus tutor.

I took civil engineering at Columbia. at a yeah, I took civil engineering in Columbia University, had taken pre-calculus and calculus at the Cooper Union. Of course you did. Yeah, I was a really I was a smarty pants. I didn't, I mean, my family knew very well that I was not interested in having a boyfriend and having sex and doing any of that kind of stuff because my mom had got

pregnant with me at 16 and I was like, no. That's good birth control. Yeah. Yeah, and I was also kind of. It doesn't always work though. Not always. No, no, no, no. Like my daughter is like, oh, cool. So grandma was a teenage mom and then she had you. That's awesome. I'm like, no, that's not the moral of that story. That's not the takeaway you won't.

Wow, so how much time lapsed between, was He Got Game, your second film? He Got Game, no, but He Got Game was my senior film, so I did that film when I was 18. That was the film I did getting out of high school. So it was just a couple years later. I turned 18 on one of my auditions. Like Spike made me auditioned for that movie like 15, 20 times. Really? I had to keep going in.

He was having me read with a bunch of different people. So I don't even know who I was up against. I just know that I read with... Oh, you need chemistry with the right? Yeah, I read with, like, a ton of different basketball players. And I remember I was still at the... It was at the last couple of months of high school and I'd be going, I'm like, I just read with Alan Iverson today.

And they're like, oh, no. No. That would not have worked. That would not. You, uh, cut. You ready for the sex thing yet? We ready? When that day is that, I'll be there.

I mean, we talk about practice. Rosario, between starting and kids and then your next situation with Spike, in retrospect, looking back, how did that help you in your career? Because it seems like those are like some real in the trenches experiences, especially for the beginning. Like how did, how do you look back at that and say, okay, well, now I was prepared for this? Well, I mean, when you start off with kids, and a kids is such an incredible film because it's so raw, it's kids. and it's honest and it's vulnerable and it's stark and it's about HIV and AIDS and latchy kids and what are kids up to when their parents aren't looking and society isn't caring and I mean it was so powerful and provocative and important and still resonates today that's how

authentic and remarkable it is that like the bar was set really high and that's the reason why I was even visible to someone like Spike and then I remember when when it got cast and he got came, Spike's like, yo, so you gotta help Riala now. And I'm like, dude, like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I just, I'm just starting off myself, have him like, you know, follow Denzel around. And he's like, no.

And Spike's whole thing is like, if I've cast you, I don't make mistakes. So do the job I hired you for. So it was interesting. It was sort of like this reverse sort of confidence builder. Right. of just going, well, I trust him and I believe in him and I love Spike's work. So if he's saying I can do it, then I'm guessing I'm going to have to manifest how to do this.

And be an acting coach. And show up, you know, so it was really interesting. And he would leave sometimes. Like he'd literally be like, yo, the game's about to start peace. You can finish this on your... Like, I remember he left when we were doing the Wonderwheel scene. Oh, shit. He left.

And Spite... And Ray was sick because we'd already done the cyclone. We'd had massive headaches. and he's guzzling peptobesmo on this wonder wheel. I'm by myself with this like vomity guy. Beautiful, awesome, remarkable vomiting guy. Trying to do this sexy scene. And Spike's like, piece, I got a game.

It might have been a Chicago game. It was 97. Yeah, yeah. My thoughts were he was watching Jordan or something. But was it intimidating? Because I also know that Denzel is a very, even though you, You had few scenes with him. One.

Or yeah, that one with a karate chop to the next scene. Same thing with Unstoppable, one scene. I've got to do a movie with Denzel that actually has me have more than one scene with him. All of my stuff and Unstoppable is over the phone. And it was literally this other dude who we called White Denzel, who sounds just like Denzel, but is not Denzel. But he would do his voice and annotations. It was amazing. So all of my acting stuff, except for the actual day.

I was on set with Denzel. It was white Denzel. It was White Denzel in other room talking about the phone. We'll see about that. We're training day three with you. That's cool. That felt like, you know, when people come up to me and go, I really liked you in Alexander, I have to say. Oh, because you only, oh.

And I liked you. Thank you. That's it. So, uh. Anyway. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes, of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Anyway, we're back. So, yeah, so you're saying that how awkward or intense was that film? Because I felt as though that film in a lot of our eyes were seeing you as Lala. Oh yeah, I still get called Lala to this day. Spike calls me Lala, people scream it down the block. I'm still in love with Lala. I'm like, why? Why would you be in love with that girl?

And the first night I met you, I was like, oh, man, she's the furthest thing from La La La. Danger. I know. I remember Derek Jeter, I think, hit up Spike and was like, yo, I want to meet Rosario or whatever. And Spike was like, yo, it was Derek Jeter. And I'm like, I'm going to show up in sweats. And that's exactly what I did.

And Derek was like, I am not Lala, like even remotely. Not even a little bit. And you know, because how many times did we hang out during that time? And it was like, did I brush my hair? Who is this human being? Nice. What are you going to talk? Can I mean just meet Laiwak? I'll just see her. I'll just see her.

No, I actually thought it was cool. I was like, oh, okay, she's a nerd. Okay, nice. Rosario, nice to meet you. Yes, nice to meet you too. Actually, we met under the weirdest circumstances. Was Tarek's party the first time we met? I think so, actually. And I was just thinking about recently this time that we went to Mr. Chow's together.

Yo! Do you remember that? You don't know the half of it. I remember we went there and I was there and everybody started launching into these stories about like yo, remember that time your mom's

attacked you with the knife. And it was getting beat. And it turned into this crazy conversation about mama beatings. About mama and grandma beatings and like how your family members who were like, I'm going to make you more

scared of me than the drug dealers. And keep you in check with harsh love. All right. So the thing is, this is one of the nights where D, Poole Day, I can't sing, like, whatever. We was at, like, Radio City music for a week. So two of these nights, he canceled because of the sickness or whatever. So we had the night off.

So, and most was also on the show. So we thought, okay, let's go to Mr. Chow's. And, you know, I was not on Mr. Chowell. budget so I'll explain the second half of this dinner thing anyway so we're sitting in this back then mr. Chowell's was the the standard you know the illustrious you know you go to mr. Tal Chowell's you I think like Leonardo was there tonight he ignored us and just said hi to most and maybe Rosario but everyone else we were like minions so it's like 10 of us and me and most of his brothers like you know like when when black people get together we share the

worst whooping stories. Right, right. That's like our favorite thing, like to share who has the worst tragedy. Yeah, we bond over abuse. Right. Did you go get this? No, that's terrible. Like, my, my boyfriend at the time was there, and he grew up in Hawaii barefoot surfing

and like with hippie parents. So he walked out of their traumatized. Like, oh my God, that's abuse. That was his mother did that? Why were they laughing? Don't. It was like the worst, the abuse, the funnier the story. Yeah.

And everyone wanted to do. one up each other like yeah but most of those brothers oh god umi yeah oh yeah oh yeah that mom yeah i never mean his mom yeah she's quick with the switch anyway so the the check comes right and this is the first time i'm looking at a four-figure check because i made the mistake of in typical mere fashion i was you know i showed up late so most was like oh it's cool i'm gonna take the liberty and just, you know, I'll pre-order for everyone. So I was like, oh, cool. Because I'm not thinking that I'm ever going to be subject to a meal

that's going to cost $1,200. Yeah. So most just ordered one of everything off the menu. On top of that shit, he ordered you a birthday cake, and it wasn't even your birthday. So I'm like, nigga, you're trying to stunt on my dollars? It wasn't one of the moments where it's like, let's just split this equally, no matter if he just had a drink or whatever.

So something happened, something happened, and I knew something was up when four people brought the check. And the check looked like... Four people? It looked like not even war in peace. The shit looked like the Quran. Like, it was a check. And it looked like a mile long. That shit looked like the damn, when you go to CVS, the printout that you get with coupons.

So wait, I need you to dissect this moment because at this moment, all you are still at a certain tax bracket. So how long do you look at the check? Because, you know, you don't want to look too long because you don't want to be one of the people. But, motherfucker. I had diarrhea. I played it cool. Because, I mean, back then in 2000, you know, like I was probably on an allowance that between my record habit and my sneaker habit, you know, a $1,200 dinner check could wipe me out. You're like, and top ramen for the next.

Three weeks. Yo, I was living off of the Shep Y.R.D. and the tour bus. And anyway, so I went to the bathroom and, you know, most was like all trying to engage you in another abuse story. And kind of behind your back, I was like, so me, most and his two brothers are now in the bathroom. Fighting over $1,200. Like, we're pulling out of our per diem.

Like, we're counting it in the bathroom. And the bill was $1,200, and I think we collectively scrapped together like $819. And we're like, yo. That ain't. So I begged. I begged. And Tina, at the last minute, shout out to Tina Fares. I said, Tina, do not tell Sean G.

Don't tell Rich. Please swipe the roots card on this thing and get us out of this predicament. And I just prayed, and she picked up. came at the last minute and saved us. Amazing. Never again. Most owe y'all dinner. Like, for real.

Like, he, most probably was, never. That's the least. Get in line, damn. Yo, you remember that? And you were none the wiser. You were no. I got invited. I was like, dog, we was.

I got a birthday cake. I was like, oh, y'all don't nice. That's when I got mad. Because I looked at him like, yo, dog, it's not even her birthday. I know, but you know, it's a risario. The cake was like $119.19. Like, yo, dog. I hope it was the best cake you ever ate.

No, I couldn't eat. I lost. I was trying to regurgitate the food and give it back to them. That's how bad, you know. But I think about that story a lot because I think about, like, it's, it took, that comes up for me over so many years, especially at this moment that we're in right now. I mean, for so many years. What, Brooke rappers trying to woo you? No, Saniano.

Of like, you know, we got this times up thing. happening right now, which is really powerful and all of these people who are coming out about harassment and abuse and just, you know, we've got sexual predator in chief in office and like just so many different things that are kind of coming on. And after years of being on the board of V-Day and Loryside Girls Club and so many organizations and traveling around the world to places like Congo and talking to people from abuse and having been abused myself as a kid and, you know, just so many different things and recognizing how often we really do marginalize the pain that we've gone through and how we excuse the harsh sort of realities that we sort of live in.

And it's been really beautiful to see over the years people get their comeuppance and be able to kind of grow past that and become incredible, wonderful, beautiful people who are championing light and love and compassion and empathy and just seeing people like knowing fully well what they went through to get to this position. Like even watching Jay-Z in concert just talking about like, yo, I came from ugliness and I did ugly things to get here. and now I'm here because I kept speaking into the future what I wanted to create because I didn't, how many people when I was a teenager, I went to their funerals. And there are a lot of people whose funerals that I went to.

And there's a lot of people who have who are really tortured and traumatized from not just the neighborhoods and the circumstances they grew up in, but from the harsh love that their parents and grandparents felt that they needed to wield in order to quote unquote protect them. And that stuff really, you know, and it was just interesting because we were right in that moment. and it was still something that was kind of really blind to me, how much we tolerate because it's our normal. And how, you know, like, as a parent now, that's just not something that's acceptable. I was going to say, as parents, how do you guys view, you know... Corporal punishment?

Well, not just corporal punishment. Because the connoisseation has changed now. It's not as acceptable to see people talking about that loud like it is now. Like, we would laugh at, you know, white people saying, like, oh, time out and, you know, that sort of thing. But it's like, how do you administer that now so that you don't traumatize your kids? I think for me, I mean, I got boys, so, you know,

I think sometimes with boys, there is a little, particularly raising young black boys, like you have to let them know that the world is not going to be fair and that generally my message to them, my boys are 17 and 12, But I remember telling my 12-year-old, I'm like, listen, your childhood is going to end in, like, another year. Like, that's pretty much when black childhood ends. Once you're no longer cute and cuddly and all that stuff, homie, you're a threat.

You get a little height on you, your voice get a little deeper, your hands get a little big. Like, dude, you're not the same. So versus when you're 8 and 9, and it's you and your buddies at the mall or at Chuck E. cheese or whatever the fuck it's oh these cute little boys but take 13 year olds and it's four y'all now y'all are gang you know i mean and so you just have to be cognizant of that so to me um i in terms of just beatings that's something that i mean i definitely got a lot of beatings as a kid my boys i can probably count on one hand the number of times i ever had to spank them like ever you know what i'm saying throughout their life um for me it's just more so just a thing of just

having conversations with them and just trying to understand that you know you can talk to me about anything. If you bring something to me, you won't get in trouble for it if you get out ahead of it. But if I find out some shit, that's your ass. So that's...

You know what I mean? I can hear the one that growing. Yeah, I mean, that's how it is with me. And then, too, I think we have to think of, for me, a big thing was like, just as black Americans or just all people of color. I think you have to think about where our shit comes from.

And all of it, that shit comes from slavery. You know what I mean? Like, I remember being a kid and, like, my grandmother making us pick switches. You know what I mean? I'm sure, like, you probably went through.

Sure. Are we 100% sure that in the village that we never put our hands on each other? I know. I've heard that. We put our hands on each other. But that picking on, like, that's some slave shit,

like that's some, because that's not, that goes beyond discipline. That's humiliation. You know what I mean? Like, that's, I'm gonna fuck with you and make you pick your own punishment.

You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's some psychological abuse shit. So even things, I was like, damn, where did that shit come from? King Leopold never step a foot in the Congo. And that's exactly what they would do is have slaves beat other slaves. Yeah. And that's how they created apartheid.

Like they went and looked at what worked in multiple different countries and places around slavery to compile something together that would exactly gaslight people and have them turning against each other. And I feel like that's the moment that we're in right now where those tools for divisiveness are being exposed. and we're recognizing how much we've been siloed from each other and being in competition and creating violence and being marginalized so that we actually think we're the minority, but we're not at all, at the world round. And part of that was exactly those things of like, you know, my family members who martyred themselves and sacrificed

and it was all about, you know, forfeiting needs for these other strategies. And I was raised in that. And it was incredibly corrosive to the spirit and energy and never mind all the stuff that you see in culture that also demoralizes you and puts you down and marginalizes you. But you got to recognize that like that hate and that fear and those traumas also came from your family

and that they didn't know any better because that's how they were raised. Like it's just like the fact that we're at this point right now where we can really break that cycle. And a lot of that is like I love the conversation. I was talking to people like Patrice Cullors who's like going, we need to have self-care. And it's not about me just as,

as, you know, one of the founding members of Black Lives Matter going, I need to take care of myself because, you know, look at Erica Garner just dying right now from an enlarged heart. You know, like, that's a broken heart. And someone who didn't get the chance to mourn who's been fighting and fighting and fighting and now can't raise her child, it's like, you know, we have to take care of ourselves. But also we didn't hurt ourselves. And we also need to have a conversation that we're really taking care of ourselves. So I go back to that conversation often because in that when we made light of all of that abuse and trauma,

and I feel like the conversation that's happening now is going really investigating it and going, was that good? Was that necessary? I mean, it made sense for that time, but it no longer works. It's not even that it necessarily really made sense for that time either, but it's no longer excusable.

It's weird. Because we know better now. It's weird. Because I hear y'all, and it makes sense, but then there's something inside of me just having an honest moment that makes me go, I was a child who got beaten's, right? Not just a switch moment, but and it used to be a moment where I was proud to say, yes, I got beat, and I'm a proud child of that,

and I'm going to do the same to my children. But now it's so weird because those words coming out of your mouth are now offensive. It's not politically correct to say. But I remember 10 years ago talking to peers and being like, yeah, I got beat. I'm going to beat my kids. Yeah, of course.

It's just, we thought it was normal. We thought it was normal, and we knew the thing that was complicated is that there was love behind it. And I still love my mother. And it's a certain pride in me. I don't want to say me being fearful of my. mother, but it's a certain respect level because although she is two feet shorter than me and a hundred pounds smaller, I'm not fucking with her, but that's still my best friend.

But I think some of that was because of the beating. It's just a weird. But there's a way you have to, I think there's a way you can establish, you know, respect and establish those boundaries that may not necessarily involve hitting your kids. You know what I mean? You know, for me, I've just never had that issue with my boys. You know what I mean? They just don't.

And so I remember when Tamil Rice got killed. And I'd sat my son down at the time who was 11. and I think of 10. And I was like, this kid, you will be 12 in two years. You know what I mean? And they just shot and killed this kid. Just so he was aware of the world that he's living in. And so just having those kind of conversations just help you to understand that it's like,

listen, I'm telling you these things because I care. You know what I'm saying? And if you do something that is out of pocket, yeah, I'm going to scream on you, but it's because I'm trying to save your fucking life. You know what I mean? Like I'm being hard on you. because I'm trying to protect you. And that may not necessarily mean I got to, you know, put hands on you.

And as long as they understand that, when my boys, they get it. So I just personally haven't had a lot to do that. I think that just the tools just keep getting refined. The relationship you have with your mom is because you two love each other and you're both good people and you want to have that dynamic. Did it have to go and be created in the way that it was? That's arguable. You know, because you're, I'm seeing now I can have a relationship with my kid that doesn't involve those things. And I can still get that same thing without having to excuse some blapse of judgment and violence and abuse because that wasn't necessary.

It was an avenue. We grew up in it though. Like that's why I keep going back to that conversation because it was like these are all really good, really talented, really smart people. But we're all tolerating this thing because it's our normal. It is what it is. It's part of culture. And now the culture is really transformed. And like that's the thing where it's interesting where I don't necessarily agree about how outrageous young people are.

I think that's always sort of been there, but there's this other beautiful, and I get it because there's a lot of argument against calling with millennials and young people about entitled. But there is something really amazing about how entitled young people feel. Like they have a voice, they have 24-hour channels dedicated to them.

We didn't have that. We had a couple of cartoons, and then that was it. It was an adult world. And now kids are catered to. They have access to information that doesn't have to come from their teachers or their parents or their neighborhood.

They can really, and so at a very younger age, they're expressing them. and feeling entitled to those opinions. They don't need us. And so like, you know, you're getting a different pushback than just like a sassy teenager talking to you. You're getting this really young person who feels like they have to, they can express themselves, which was not the same thing.

But my mother or my grandmother went through when it was like, yes, ma'am, no ma'am. And they're more informed than we are. They are. They're more informed than we are. Information is power. And so that's beautiful. More informed than we were at that age. For sure.

You know, and it took us a long time for us to get to like this level of, you know, nonviolent communication and all of this stuff is happening to us in our 20s and 30s and 40s and this is happening in teenagers now and younger and seeing them assert themselves and going don't you like you're gonna you don't talk to me that way you don't hit you don't hit me like that like it's not just that

we're deciding that you know we've decided we want to change it's these kids going what do you think it put your hand down talk to me well my boy well nah they ain't never said that to me now that'll get you fucked up what you think is what you put your hand niggas shit What you got on this mortgage, nigga?

How about that? No, that's the... I take that from the Will Smith thing where he'd tell his kids all... He said he used to tell us kids all the time. Like, clean my room. That's my room. No, you ain't paying no rent.

That's my room. Yeah, but I struggle with that, though. I do... I struggle with it just in the sense of, like, I'm always thinking about... I don't know if you were aware. Remember, it was like some experiment that some scientists did, like years.

This was like in the 60s or 70s. But it was basically this experiment where they took these fish and they had them in a bowl. Well, no, they had them in the fish tank. And so, they put the fish in the fish tank and they had one side of the fish of the tank closed off. So the fish

can only go into the bull into like this little border or whatever. So then they remove the border and the fish still stayed on that side. You know what I mean? And so for me that's kind of the thing with it was raising like black boys is like I look at like white kids. Like if you've been

in the airport and you just see white kids just be everywhere, just be running all the fuck around and they moms don't stop them. They just let them go. And we're always as a kid. You spent time in Africa? Not like that. No.

What? I mean, even just getting on the plane to Africa, the kids are running around. African kids or? Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Also, maybe that was slavery that got us in our whole discipline. They got us in our place.

Yeah. You got us in our place. Yeah. Again, it's culture, right? It's what's, what's accepted and what's, and the fear that's built into it and, you know, all of those things where we, we do that, we put up that border ourselves and don't step out of it. For survival.

I mean, it's from a real place. But it's from a real place. You see that difference in people, you know, over there, then that's it. What's the difference between them and us? America and slavery. Slavery. They had slavery different over there. I'm just saying.

Yeah. So, Rosario, of course, you're legendarily known for your political activism. What made you? Yeah, believe it or not. I don't know if you know this. What made you want to step into that realm? because nine times out of ten, you know, once a person reaches a certain place in their career or their profession, they might get in a comfortable place where it's like, well, I don't want to rock my boat.

And, you know, you have this sort of Harriet Tubman thing about you where it's like... Harry Tubman? No, what I'm just saying? You ride for your people, and every time I turn around, you're either, you know, doing it. some girls club thing or you're always I'd see you do more social work than I do your professional work

but then again you know if you're getting Marvel money then I'm getting like okay we're getting that money I'm sure that I afford you time to balance it yeah like how do you balance

your professional career and you know why do you feel it's such a a need to be politically and socially involved in the lives of the, I guess, disenfranchised? Well, I grew up before, you know, Kimberly Crenshaw sort of coined intersectionality with her remarkable TED Talk and work. I grew up understanding the intersectionality of my mom being a teenage mom and lack of education, home and security and jobs, you know, And like, you know, the voice my mom would put on,

hi, I'm Mrs. Bill Celeste Arsson, you know, and to try to get a job. And then suddenly she'd show up and the job was no longer available. And the apartment was no longer available because she's a six-foot-tall Puerto Rican from the Bronx. And she sounded different on the phone. Amazon boy. You know, and growing up in New York with a, you know,

housing crisis and AIDS and HIV and, you know, just heroin and crack epidemic and there's so many different things that it's like, you know, my mom worked in organizations and she used to campaign and so many other people that I grew up with. And there were also broken people who could also really be, you know, abusive and terrible and traumatized. And so it was like this weird dichotomy of people, but I was always still people that I saw who were not perfect, who did not have it all together, who were also still going, I'm going to help. You know, these are people who didn't have anything and it was poor people helping poor people. And then the very first movie I do is about HIV and AIDS and rape and kids in New York City.

And it shot up and it made an impact. And I had so many incredible conversations with people who had revelations about their behavior from watching the movie. And so for me, it was always intertwined. I grew up around activists. I went into film through sort of advocacy. And so I recognized really early on that the more I kept myself quote unquote relevant doing work consistent. the more I could continue to also promote the heroes and heroines that I grew up with, who were the ones who were pushing back against discriminatory housing laws and, you know,

working to get drug addicts off the streets and making better school programs for kids. And so just it was always something that I did forever. But it's interesting now being, you know, in sort of like this times up group with all these amazing actresses and women and, you know, over just a couple of months and all these different people who've put out their stories so bravely. And, you know, the whistleblowers who have lost work. work over it and now it's time to celebrate them. The Rose McGowan's and the Annabella Sioras and the, you know,

Anthony Raf's, Terry Cruz, Corey Feldman, you know, Ashley Judd, Olivia Munn, like it's important to say these people's names because they lost work. They lost, you know, they lost, Mirosurvino, like their careers were attacked and I, you know, and someone said something really beautifully yesterday of just talking about how because of the way she grew up, she self-soothed and was able to sort of, find other avenues to express herself and to have success or just to be working or, you know, keeping herself busy and finding, you know, vitality in her life when that work did dry up. And but when she did that, she was also marginalizing her talent and her access because suddenly

that worked dried up. So rather than really address how it cost her her career, she just was like, yeah, I don't really want to do it or, you know, oh, it's totally cool or maybe actually I can't do it. And the psychological sort of abuse that that was. And I, I look at it as well because it's like, you know, I see certain performances or I see certain people now. And I see characters out there that look like me that were roles that I never would have had access to over so many years. And I've always worked. But I had to do a lot of independent work. And, you know, and it's, and I very often did not get paid.

I got paid scale when I was on both Spikely movies, you know, and Denzel getting, you know, whatever, how many millions or whatever he was getting. You know, it's like, and it doesn't mean I didn't do great work. and it doesn't mean how many stuff, but I didn't get, I don't get nominated for stuff. And I don't know if that has to do with anything, but I know I'm one of the few who's always pushed back and been very radical about a lot of different issues. And people have always asked me for years, does that cost you work? And since I've always worked, I never really thought about it. But I haven't had access to the work that I really want to do necessarily.

And it's interesting to me to kind of think, like, has it affected my work? Like, I don't, I don't know. Like, has it stopped me from getting on certain lists? I know for sure, you know, sort of being a burning. person didn't make a lot of people in Hollywood very happy with me, you know. And, and so I wonder what that effect is, you know, necessarily for speaking up on behalf of trans rights and, you know, gay rights and children's rights and anti-abuse and education and housing and all the different things that I've, you know, you know, I don't, I don't know if it's cost me anything, but I do know I have

constantly redirected my energy and just kind of kept moving forward rather than really kind of look at, why didn't that turn into more work actually? I got a lot of praise for that. Like I know I did a really great job in that. Like seven pounds was really powerful or this was really powerful. And how come that like, and I'm working with people who I also know didn't get recognized because Will wouldn't get that attention.

Spike wouldn't get that attention. And I'd see their frustration as well, being the huge names that they were and how often their work was marginalized. So it's like you see a pattern that's definitely there, whether it's because you're outspoken or because you're of color or because you're a woman or whatever it is. there are a lot of voices that have been marginalized for years because of discrimination. What is that role?

I was just curious what is that role? Because when you think back of all the roles you have played, it's been very diverse. But what is that role did you think that you're missing out on in that way? I mean, I... Or the opportunity. No, I mean, I can definitely see there's, you know, I don't, you know, when I look at what things I have, like, I auditioned for seven pounds. I auditioned for Sin City.

I auditioned. Like, these are roles that I fought for. You had to fight for guys. These are not like, you know, and so there's this impression that like I get offered all this stuff all the time. But actually I fight you got to go get it. I fight for a lot of the stuff. It's, you know, so it's interesting.

Like, you know, there's sort of this idea of what that looks like. And then I meet other people and my peers and they're like, oh, yeah, I'm turning on this one. I'm like, oh, that's got to be nice. Must be nice. So you say that even at this stage in your career, 20 plus, that you're still still in the Hollywood shuffle. Yeah, and I still, I get, it's not to say I don't, like, don't get offers or this or that.

And I'm very grateful for, like, the position that I'm in. But I have to, you know, it's just, it's really interesting to recognize how, especially as women, you know, to be in this group of women now who are talking to each other and to see across the board how significant it feels for all of us. Because, you know, there aren't like those men's groups. There's this confidence like, oh, you're a Chris too. You're Chris. You're Chris. You're Chris. You all get franchise. you know and it's like all of us ladies are like pitted against each other and how many times have

I auditioned against Carrie Washington and Lucy Lou and whatever and it was like oh this is the diversity character right so we're all in competition with each other yeah yeah we're all the we're like so there's one of us and then all men and so like it's we're always taught we're we're we're given this idea like you're you're welcome even though you're doing just as much work and for a fraction of the pay but like if you say anything you know know that you're replaceable, which doesn't feel like the same thing that we hear from our male counterparts. And so, like, that's, and so there's, like, that's where there's a lot of anger from a lot of,

especially the women who are coming forward right now and have been coming forward for years because it absolutely cost them work. I don't know that I can definitively say that for myself, but I know I have been a very outspoken person for a lot of years. And, you know, you know, whatever. Yeah, in that capacity. But at the same time, like, I don't know. but that's cost me or not.

Like I don't know if I had only specifically dedicated myself to acting and performing and doing the parties and doing the, you know, all of that, playing that game. If I had, but instead I took, I did a job. I was like,

great. Now I have press and I'm going to talk about this issue here. Thank you for that. And, and, you know, and now it's so beautiful now to see these people who are making really good money and are having access to social media,

which I didn't have at that time, to be able to really speak out to people and still grow their success at the same time as talking about these issues. That wasn't an option for me. Go ahead. Wait, let me just get, this is kind of a three-part question,

but how did you, because I know that no woman in Hollywood is unscathed. Yeah. But how do you deal with, whatever, the Weinsteins or the Ratteners of Hollywood, which I'm sure there's a lot of them and some that haven't been touched yet? But how do you navigate

your way through that landmine. What's the difference between, you know, okay, I get creepy vibes from this one and, oh, this one has such acclaim and it's such an honor to be in this one's movies because of his legacy and his lineage. But I don't know, like, how do you... I mean, again, because I didn't ever really play like that game,

you know, there were people I avoided in general or I did what I had to do work-wise. I always treated it like, okay, I got to come here and do this party or do whatever, and then I'm out. Like, I never, I didn't do... Hey, let's go to dinner afterwards. Yeah, I very much avoided that.

And if anything, that was one of the things that I thought about yesterday is like, because I was raped and molested as a child, one with the family member and one with the babysitter. So for me, it was, I grew up with this sort of understanding that the world isn't safe.

And so I have, going into this industry, of course. I mean, from kids, you know, and like, how old are you, Larry? Why are you shooting these kids that are dressed like, or not dressed like this? You know, I've definitely just had for a very long time, I just assume all, everybody has some sort of dark potential story. So I walked into most, and so did I excuse or did I ignore or did I just navigate around all of that? Yeah, because it was, it's accept, quote unquote, tolerated. It's what's been passed down by family members who go, that happened to me too, baby,

should be just going to move on. You know, it's that story. See what I'm saying? My mom said to me, every woman in your life has been raped or sexually assaulted at some point. So we're taught like that's just how you got to deal with it. You know, like we're sitting in one of these meetings and it was saying, you know, a lot of people's first jobs

is going into the waitressing industry. And that's a $2, I think $13 an hour pay. So basically the first job out of the house, whatever trauma or not trauma you experience there, now you're going into the space where you're being told, we're revealing clothes. Deal with that scumbag

because maybe they'll give you a good tip. So now Pussy Grabber and Chief is potentially the good tipper. Yeah. And, you know, so how do you then go to HR? How do you then, when you start building up, those power dynamics are always exploited. You saw it at home.

You saw it in your community. You saw it at school. You see it all, it's pervasively all around the world. At what point do you have the gumption to go, no, where like I know that most of the world's enslaved, but underground railroad later, we're going to say this isn't okay. Doesn't matter if it's the law, it's not okay.

And the reason why people can be fired like this and all of the stuff that's going on right now is because people behind the scenes for many years have been working to put those anti-discriminatory, you know, laws in place and in contracts for so long that they all need to be better, NDA's got to go. Like, all these different things have to happen. But like, this moment was a long time building

and coming from a lot of hearings. and heroines that will never be recognized who did that dirty work when no one cared when it was totally like where the story was you know we're not gonna talk about what Bill Cosby or Woody Allen did because they make great projects and this generation's going uh no you ruined

those projects for me because you did bad things that's actually how that story's told and that's real that's a huge transformation from how I grew up when I grew up it was like it is what it is it's a separate the art from the artist and you separate it and it's totally totally fine. And to finally be in, so my activism really felt separate. You know, like, it was like, I do this over here and I try to help with the girls and I try to make the inroads that I can,

but I understand that I have to navigate this really carefully in my industry. And now that's starting to change, which is really powerful. All right. Part two, that sort of question is, all right, knowing that you are now in this community of actresses that are. and conversation and, you know, you guys are talking to each other daily. Is there a general awareness? Because I know that, well, you know, I know that you are in the minority of this being a woman of color and not white. Is there a general understanding that there's still

a harder level for women of color in the acting community to even get basic treatment, not even fair treatment, not even fair treatment, but basic treatment. A million and one percent. Oh, they do? Yes, we are definitely pushing for that. So when we're saying like 50, 50 by 2020, trying to change the boards, trying to change all the different power dynamics, it's not just going white cisgender women. It's understanding that that needs to be inclusive of LGBT

LGBTQ, LGBTQIA people. It needs to be inclusive. Wait, can you break that down? Because there's so many letters been. I know. It's so much. The intersectionality. Yeah.

So, you know, I think it's, I think it's just, you know, this idea of, like, that representing people of all, that's disabled persons that, like, it's much bigger than even just brown and white and black, you know, and Latina and Asian. Like, it's a bigger, it's a bigger issue. But it's also, you know, we got this beautiful letter from. the farm workers who, you know, they are picking our food and vulnerable to rape daily because they're out there in the fields on their own. And they were so moved by so many of these stories that they wrote a letter in solidarity with us. And we wrote a letter back. And one of the things

I pushed back on it was like, you know, they really made it much more inclusive. It's not just women. So times up is women. But the legal defense fund that we're funding, that goes for you know, quote unquote low wage or some, you know, kind of workers across the nation, male and female, beyond the binary of understanding. Like the fact that women have come together, which I think is really important, we do need women to be able to feel we've been so cut off from each other. I think it's really powerful and really beautiful and there's so much healing that needs to happen among women.

But I love that women came together to tell these stories and are also recognizing the men who've come forward and are recognizing that with the money that we're raising to help people to push back against their predators and hold them accountable legally that they need those funds. And the $15 million that have already been raised in just the past couple of weeks with 9,000 donations goes to disabled persons, LGBTQI people, men and women. Like, I mean, it's really beautiful that like women are coming to the rescue. And we're inviting our male allies to help us out, but we're not waiting for them. And that's, to me, one of the most provocative things about this. And to build on what Amir said, though, is there a conversation? Because I feel like

especially now with an understanding that we don't understand each other as much as we think. You know what I mean? Exactly. Me Too means very different things for a lot of people. But especially for people of color. You know, as people of color in this country, we've been, we've had to know some basic things about white folks. It's in our history for the first 18 years of our lives.

We are taught about white folks. White folks have the option of learning about black people, right? So on the hills of what Amir said, you know, I always find it interesting with white women how it's a woman's movement. It's women got their right to vote. but there is a whole disconnect of talking. Like I hate when I hear women talk about women's suffrage. And white women seem to forget that black women could not vote until 1965

where you were voting in 1860, whatever. Also the Native American women who were the models for the suffragette movement who never get recognized. That too. Right? So like it's, you know, like it didn't have a bunch of people leaving from England and showing up here and going, I'm going to create three branches of government.

No, you got that from natives. And who were living and had an incredible democracy. That was the first democracy. These were not just people walking around with, you know, fingers up in the air. Like, these were whole communities with leadership where women were recognized, men were recognized. Trans people were recognized as having two spirits and considered valuable to the community. But see, that is still, that's an added-on conversation. I'm just saying with-

It's not at the beginning of the conversation. It is. So absolutely, it's been, that's why I'm in that space. Right. Okay. That's why Gabrielle Union's in that space and Rashida's in that space and America's in that space. And all of us are being really assertive about. making sure, like, when we're going, just going, we have to have 50, 50 by 2020, well, what does

exactly mean? You know, like, how many of those, how diverse does that 50, 50 look? You know, and really making sure that that's really understood that if we're talking about having a world that is reflect, you know, having an industry that's reflective of the world, that means we got to look at the statistics of what this world actually looks like. And right now those numbers don't exist. And what's one of the things that's interesting of, like, doing the research on this is like, if there's one woman out of 10 on a board,

three quarters of men think that it's diverse enough. And a third of women think it's diverse enough. Like there's actually, you know, or a little bit more, I think, actually think that, okay, well, we've got a diverse board. No, there's one out of ten. You know, and never mind that if she'll ever be a color or whatever, you know what? And that one woman, does she under, do women understand at that point, though, that diverse doesn't just mean one white woman sitting there.

Are you happy now that you see one white woman sitting there, but do you even notice that there's something else missing? Absolutely. And so, like, and that's, again, goes back to the psychological stuff of like what we are conditioned to believe we can have and how much we get so excited about the little bit that we get that we celebrate as opposed to continuing to push for what we actually need let alone deserve or want but like need and how do you see this translating especially since it's Hollywood how do you see this translating to the everyday person

especially when we're talking about like I mean do we even does lily lead better even matter anymore like how you see this translating into fair pay for women period you know I mean, it's on a basic. This is like we're raising, you know, we're trying to change code of conduct. We're trying to change laws. Like we're trying to change the layout, you know, we're talking about changing the people who are at the top, the studios and the agencies, the ones who do all that hiring. You're never, like, agencies will poach other people to meet their quotas.

They will poach other women or people of color from other agencies, which means you only rob them and create more disparity in those other spaces, as opposed to growing them and going, I'm going to make sure, I'm going to start with the interns and grow this talent. and make sure it's diverse from the get. You know, like, that's the conversation that we're having. And right now we're getting people going like, yeah, we'll do it. And it's like, I don't think you understand what we're saying. The people we want to see on this board, because if we change that,

if we change that, then we change the hiring practices. We change the stories that we tell. When there are a majority of women on a set, suddenly women aren't, like, it erases a lot of the sexual harassment and abuse that exists right now. Like, we can do all we want to change the laws about, like, going after perpetrators. But you got to start where we got to, you know, and we're doing that, and that's why that fund is there.

But at the same time, if we don't really address what creates those environments to begin with, we're just going to keep putting a band-aid to try to stop this bleeding wound. And we have to change that. And that's not going to go very easily. I mean, I'm sure, like, that's an interesting conversation. I've talked to a lot of people, especially at our age,

where it's like you work so hard in your different industries to get to the top. And then you recognize when you're really successful, white women included. You're like, I'm surrounded by older white men. Like that's the top. And then people, I think like that moment where people get so like disinterested or unhappy in their 30s and 40s is not like just like age. But literally because you realize you sacrificed your whole life to get into that room. And you realize that room is not someplace that you.

Boring. And not like, and it's not something that like, because. Because that's where the keys have been held. You know, like getting an education as a woman or a person of color, that was illegal. So, like, bit by bit over many years, we have gotten ourselves into all of those spaces. But there are still some spaces that have really siloed from us. And we are trying at this point to break into those spaces. And once you get up there, that's the world.

That's the world that creates all the rules and the laws and the stories and the culture and whatever. And that's so far the keys are still very tightly kept. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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And in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Well, that sort of leaves to my part three question is, okay, so I guess 2017 was the purging period and build and destroy, whatever, or destroy and rebuild.

So you're saying that 2020 is kind of the endgame goal to set these things in place or that's where we you know it's not an impossibility to think about having there's there's it's it's like it's like what was it chris who made that joke about baroque being like it wasn't that suddenly for the first time in american history there was a black man who was capable of being president it was just that this was the first time that we allowed a person of color to be president you know so it's like i feel like that's the space that we're in right now the conversation's really pushing and going this could have changed a long time ago and now it's time for it to change. And the only way to do that is to push for it. Like if you don't reach for it, if you don't

push for it, if you don't organize and strategize and do all these different things, that's the long game. You know, it was, it was, you know, I forget her name, which is unfortunate, but this is a white woman who paid for, you know, the Montgomery bus strike to last for a year. She had volunteered and said, okay, I know you guys can't lose work over this. So, and the strike is really important. So I'll pay for it as long as it last. knowing it was gonna last a year. And she kept her word and continued to pay

so that they really, after a year, we're like, damn it, you guys are really not gonna take these buses. We need to work. So that's the long, those are the stories that we're not told of how long it takes the kind of allies that we need. And this is like, so it's great there. Everyone's gonna wear black at the golden globes and do all these different symbolic things.

But we are really truly of the understanding that this is the long game. And we have to. And the election year. Is there a union? Is there a union or, will you guys, unionize and I mean not that I want all the information spilled or whatever but SAG is a union we have a union

and it needs to be bettered and it needs support and it needs and a woman has been president before so yeah it's not it's not it's it's but you know there's just you know I think as we're saying you know it's like it's interesting

you know having been a Bernie person and then last year and then getting like ostracized and like a targeted and attack for you brought us Trump and don't even think about talking about DACA because you brought us Trump. And I'm like, I don't remember you being there on the streets with us when we were fighting under Obama to get DACA passed. You know, like so this idea that, you know, now that you're angry, now that you're showing up, that that suddenly erases all of the work that other people did

is crazy. But, and so I get a lot of the anger from even a lot of the women who are like, what's up with this moment that everyone's capitalizing on me revealing my, story that cost me work. And now you guys are all going, yeah, and we're going to raise a bunch of money and do like, it's like, you know, does that, how, without really recognize maybe how that makes them feel is going, well, I get that.

And how can we fix it? How can we make it better? Because people are showing up. I don't know what would have happened had the election gone differently, had the primaries gone. I don't, who knows all those different things. But what I do know right now is that people around the world are pushing back because of Brexit, because of all of these different things that are going on around the world. We have tens of thousands, tens of millions, you know, refugees around the world and a female

robot that just got citizenship in Saudi Arabia. And no, Sophia the robot. And also as a female, while people are fighting to have their gender recognized. Like, that's a really, like, even as we're starting to catch up on our upsets and our issues of now, shit's about to go down in the next few years in a really, really big way. And we're still fighting for minimum wage uppens. Like there's a lot of work to wrap our heads around, and we cannot keep looking past. I can recognize I could have absolutely been more constructive in my communication. I was very angry during the election.

Because for me, I saw an opportunity to take money out of politics. That's what it was. The corruption that exists, the only way to change it is to take money out of politics. It's the, it's everything. And now it's here. And now it's here. Everywhere. Like, how do we work together?

And if you're saying you're a united, you know, together, stronger together kind of person, then that's, then we need to do that right now. Because this is, we cannot keep being divided and angry and making this blue, red, whatever, you're deplorable, you know, whatever. Like, we cannot keep doing that. We are hurting ourselves. And the reality is most of us really want to see true progress. We want to see the environment change.

We want us have, we want our children to have access to the, things that we didn't have access to. And right now they're looking at less. It looks like 2020. That's not okay. And 2020 is going to be the year of fixing everything that he took us five, 10 years back on. It looks like as well.

Like the progress, like we might, 2020. 2020. This is midterm time. What I'm talking about? Yeah, that too, but when it comes to. Let's start 2018.

We got to start right now. That's the whole point. And a lot of people have not paid attention to the local elections, which are where these people get their power first. and they get their relationships and they get their networks and they get their lobbyists and they get their revolving door

and their corporations and all this kind of stuff and it removes them from the process because of all the developed countries in the world we do not vote we don't show up that doesn't exist in Australia and all these other places around the world

it literally is baffling to see how many people pay attention and vote it's like we did well this first primary that went on in New York it went on New Jersey and some things are changed and they're continuing to do And that's what makes me so excited and just so blown away by this moment.

And I hope, you know, and I'm, and I want to keep pushing for more because I know we need it, including from myself, you know, so I took a nonviolent communications course and I like figuring out. No more getting locked at, Rosario. Well, I don't mind getting locked up for a cause. I did that for, you know, democracy awakening and pushing back to get money out of politics and to, you know, to overturn the overturning of the Voting Rights Act. and like those are, I'm always happy to be arrested for stuff like that. Why is that still an act?

Exactly. But, you know, I think that there's, there's just so many, I mean, like young people and like just people in general, there's just access to information that, you know, that other people just did not have before. We don't need to, this is a leaderful moment specifically because for the first time we don't need an individual leader. We can go and go to YouTube and watch Martin Luther King speak. Like we don't, like we're not, right now, this is the moment.

where no one's waiting. You don't like there's no excuse if you're saying I'm waiting for this person to you know move me and and make me feel like I need to get off off my butt and vote or register or organize or do whatever. It's like look it up on YouTube and it's and you're watching it like that and the same whether you're watching something live. So it feels the same like it better view. And it's powerful like you know but we've you know those stories have been told in a way you know you look at you know the march on Washington and everyone black and white and everyone's so beautiful and dressed in suits and like you know and and you know we have a day that recognizes it that we forget what a huge act of civil disobedience that was you know like we forget just how dangerous that actually

was and that that's actually required to really move forward so uh so lukege actually the second season's really going to be amazing i know i know are y'all finished have you have you done nothing okay you can't tell us nothing of course not um shit I'm trying to go around. When is it premiere? I don't know, actually. Really? Really can't tell us, nothing.

No, I actually really just don't know. I'm sorry. You're on your computer. You can look it up. Okay. No, I'm playing. But how powerful, you know what I mean? Like, I love that show.

Yeah. I mean, it's not. Are you going to go? Oh, it's good. No, I was just going to say it's nothing like seeing a superhero in Harlem and seeing just those moments between the method man. It's just dope to have a hero that's hip, pop.

Yeah. Walking around being bulletproof in his hoodie. It's like, protecting his community. Mm-hmm. And doing it for hire too.

Like that's one of the interesting things about going is like I could, why don't I get paid for this? Like, you know what I mean? And compensation and like people who sacrifice and martyr themselves so much for the greater good and that's how we're a raised to do. We forget to take care of ourselves. Pay me,

motherfucker. And it's like that's, I really love that actually the hero for hire kind of idea. Like that's all well and good. You can fly. But I'm down here. fighting petty crimes. I ain't no Batman.

Right. We're sitting on a bunch of millions. Yeah, Batman. You know what I mean? Like, he basically crossfit Bill Gates and shit. That's funny. Because I didn't know that, but Black Panthers, the richest character makes he's a prince. Because he's a king.

Oh, he's a king. Because of the, what you call it? Got more money. The, what's the metal? The metal that they make the. I think that's so dumb. That is really dumb. Cuban synchonia.

None. titanium. Totium. I forgot the name, the fictional name, but it's the metal that they have in Wakanda that that's where the- That's where it comes from. Not diamonds, but metal. Metal, yeah.

Got you. So, yeah, I feel like by 2028 or 2032, you're probably going to run for office. Is that what you want? I mean, it's- I can see, Jerry. was president. Why not Rosario Dawson? I don't know if she wants it. We had the governor.

I'm really hoping Dwayne the Rock Johnson runs. We already had a wrestler as a governor, so why not? Yeah, Justin Tura. Yeah, I feel like, you know, in about 15 years, you're going to just be full-time. You've got to jump in the pool to clean out.

Yeah, I don't know. To really clean out the swan. Would you be local? How would you? I would do. I mean, if I did it anything, I'd probably go. Thank you, my love. Senator or like Congresswoman probably at some point. I mean down the line, if that's something that shows up, I could see doing it. Right now I'm more, I'm still wanting to be in this space of storytelling and hiring and, you know, working with really remarkable people and stretching myself as an artist and like maybe directing and producing and like being part of that shift of consciousness of storytelling and who we, you know,

lift up in those stories, you know. I think that's really, really important because the culture, I think, needs a dramatic shift. And that's a really important access point. But I could see, like, when I get a little older, running for the office. I'm calling it now. I'm being your victory party, DJ.

I am one of the job. Well, you know, I got to be you and Babito, because I got a lot right. I love me sometimes. I can alternate. Fine, I can alternate in my travel to country. Biscuits. Okay, okay, we're still a pop culture podcast.

Yes, we're serious and we're political. So just in these final minutes, just, damn, now I feel like getting all frothy and lighthearted. No, because Rosario's been in like two different, well, three different worlds, for real, for real. But even on the music industry side of things, because you've had, like you said, you've had a friendship with Jay-Z for over two decades, the same thing with a mirror. it's been an interesting ride for you in that way as well. You have Prince? Prince as well. That's funny, I had a whole question.

Well, so on the strength of the sexual assault, though, that's kind of, I was going to go back to that and say, you know, do you see the differences and how long it's going to take on that side of thing versus the music part of things? Like the movies versus the music, you know, it's kind of like a difference. In other words, will there be a, a, time's up for the music industry. And do you see the difference? Well, I mean, R. Keller's already getting and has been getting a lot of flack for a long

time. But not enough. It never does anything. Yes. But I think that, I mean, we're seeing it in so many different capacities because it's political. It's in the film industry. It's with farm workers. It's with, you know, our TV personalities. It's like, you know, I mean, I think there's a lot of

spaces that are, that are now being, you know, looked at and transformed. And so, no, I don't think that there's any space right now that's invulnerable to being, kind of held to a different standard. So I think that's actually really important.

But again, that's our media and so many other things. And, you know, it's people's bread and brother. That's the reason why so many of these producers got away with this behavior for so long because even though they make all their money from those actors and directors and all those different people, like the producer is the one that's there for 30 years. So the agent's like going to deal with that producer knowing full well they're giving up this actress to some predator because they can replace her. They can't replace him.

But that's the dude with the money. You know, Harvey Weinstein paying for the Golden Globes for how. many years. You know what I mean? And developing them specifically so that, you know, it was a gateway into the Oscars, you know? On the flip side, on the music business, which is kind of built on the backs, I mean, I think I say built on the backs, but in the last 20, 30 years, it's kind of been built on the backs of women in a way of looking at them in a certain way to change the culture in the office when the music and the visual is saying something different. It has to kind of bring the music industry back on a little further back than the movie business to me. Yeah, but that's why

people like Chance the rapper are so provocative and interesting right now and Princess Nokia and people who are pushing back against that. That's why, you know, there's a history in that with music for a long time. How many incredible musicians from Motown times and whatever who were not paid, even though they were the amazing singers, they were the ones that got people turning on their radios and paying attention, but they didn't write the music, so they didn't get any money. And how many of them, you know, LaLoupe died alone? Pennyless. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not okay. And these are some of the heroines and heroes of our. And culture that, you know, has provocatively transformed all of us but did not get recognized at the time. So there's, there's a long history of that that has existed. And I think that's a big part of it is having not, you know, again, not siloing ourselves to this generation and going, this is just what it looks like here, but really seeing the history there so that we can go really learn from it and go no more. You know what I mean? It really, it really takes that. But if you kind of keep us passing it on and accepting it and just kind of going, It's just the way it is.

Then it'll continue to perpetuate. Prior to this to the Me Too movement, there are conversations between actresses that, hey, you know, don't work with so-and-so. Or if you work with so-and-so, be aware. Like, y'all... You see Courtney loves... You see Courtney loves doing that radio years ago.

Yeah, like, ah. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, there's some of that and not as well. You know what I mean? Because, again, we're really kind of kept from each other. We only see each other these award shows oftentimes. You know what I mean? On top of that, like, I mean, Harvey was serious with his defense system and, like, you thought your life was on the line.

Still to this day, there are a lot of people who are really scared of, you know, they have, you know, there are people, because of all these stories coming out, there were people being called by fake reporters, people who have been abused or raped or attacked, who are being called by fake reporters just to see if they'll talk. And take money to me. You know what I mean? Like, that's crazy. People who are being followed. Asia Argentina had to leave Italy. Like the idea that like this is still like just because we're in this incredible moment like that these women who are coming forward or men who are coming forward are safe is still not. I mean, we're in the thick of it still, very much.

Have you prepared yourself for the Savannah Guthrie moment, I like to say? Because as we as more people are getting exposed, we are seeing that they are closer and closer to us or people that we might not have suspected or just more. So eventually, if not, have it already happened to you, somebody close may be accused or, you know, may have a story. How do you handle that as Rosario? Because you are such a mouthpiece for this movement. I have been on the border of V-Day, which is going to be 20 next, well, this year. And, you know, the statistic is one in three women will be raped, killed, or beaten in her lifetime.

So that means you know people. But how do you deal with knowing the person who's the rapist? Knowing the perpetrator, yeah. Unfortunately, I know a lot of perpetrators in rapists. Like that's just, that's the reality. I grew up around that, you know what I mean? Like, it's what I would like to do is be able to get comfortable with the idea that they don't exist. But I've always suspected them.

I've, like, you know, that's the thing about trauma and abuse is that like it puts you in a position where I just, especially because what do they always say when it's like the person who's raped their child or, you know, blocked up some kid in a basement? They were the nicest person. You never would have suspected. So even if they're nice and they're great and they seem to have a happy, marriage and wonderful children, I'm still suspecting them. Yeah, you just don't know people. That's how I just grew, I grew up as an abused person. So like, you know, for me, it's, you know, it's, I'm, it doesn't mean, like, I didn't know, I've worked with almost so many of the people who've already been named, and I didn't know

the capacity to which a lot of them, regardless of it, but I suspected them. Even the ones who didn't seem skeeveeer were like, quote unquote, the, I just, I pretty much suspect everybody because that's just, most of my time spent when I'm not working in activist circles. I'm with women and children and men who were abused by the people who love them the most. So for me, like, I would, I would really like for me to, to, to, to, to exercise that demon from myself, where I can actually just be with someone and not suspect them of something horrible. Wow.

You know what I mean? Like, I, you know, to just, to, to have that likeness, you know, to, to, to, to, to, to, to not have to bear that burden all the time of, like, having, it's, it is really having, I know, I recognize that in so many different people. And that's what's, like, people want to just work. They don't want to be victims. They don't want to be survivors. They want to just work.

And for some reason, these perpetrators go out there and then they kind of like lay low for a little bit. And then they come right back up and make their money. But these women disappear. You know, these men disappear. And it's like, that's not okay. Like, the whistleblowers need to be championed now. And the conversation needs to be changed so that we can't just do really good work. Like one billion rising, which has been going on for a few years now with V-Day,

is about celebrating the one billion women who are raped killed or beaten in their lifetime. and going, and the very first one was about dancing. Like, let's just have, what would the world look like if women could go and get fetch water in Africa or go and be a, you know, a waitress or change, you know, change the linens in a hotel without fear of being raped? What would that look like? What art would be created? What harmony and beauty and love and celebration would we exist in and vibration when we live in all the time? Without this understood, accepted idea that we're vulnerable?

Like, what would that look like? and let's show what that looks like, rather than just being out there screaming, like, oh, we got to stop, does violence, let's dance and, like, transform from that way. And I think that's what's really beautiful is, like, there's a lot of people who are coming together because how many activists die alone?

How many of them get cancer and do all these different things because they're so traumatized, and it's horrible and it's not okay. And that needs to transform. There needs to be a lot more health. I know that for myself, how much, how sick I was getting in the past couple of years,

put myself in the hospital over it, you know, how many relationships and things that became really bad because I got more caustic and angry and resentful. Put your mask on first, Zaharia. I know. And I'm fine, literally in even just the past couple of months in my learning to do that. And what that truly means. And it doesn't mean that I haven't told that advice to other people. But I actually, it just wasn't, I didn't know how to do it. I've talked to this amazing trans activist Bambi. Talk about intersectionality, you know, and she was a sex worker. She's Latina. She's trans. I mean, so many different things. And then she's going, you know, I get a massage every two weeks. And I was like, that's not something to

skip over. That's a really big deal. Because even with all the success and things that I've had, getting a massage, going on a nice vacation, doing anything, I had a hard time even on social media saying, I'm doing this awesome thing because I grew up with so many people and I still know so many people, including family that are struggling to just put food on the table. And it just, I grew up with martyrs. You sacrificed. You didn't eat, shame, guilt. Like, you just grew up with that. And to like, to be able to push past that and just go, well, I'm getting sick all the time, and I'm in pain all the time, and I do need to sleep, and I do need to eat well, and I do need to take care of myself, because I can actually

do all that other work better if I prioritize myself, and that's not something to feel bad about, but I didn't grow up that way. My grandmother didn't eat free. She literally looked like mahogany. You actually would actually know that reference. I tell people that, and they're like, what is that mean? I'm like, she looked emaciated for years because all she did was drink Bustello and smoke cigarettes because she had five kids and she was a single parent.

and she had to make sure they ate. And my mom took years ago to realize that the reason why she likes burnt meat and the burnt rice is because she was always fed last. Wow. Even though she had four brothers and it was a matriarch of household

with her mother and grandmother, they always fed themselves last because of that sort of traditional men first kind of thing. The psychological kind of insanity that that was. So it's like, that was passed on to me that idea of behavior. And this is the first time because I don't want my daughter to sacrifice herself like that.

Why Uncle Ray don't have to wash dishes? I don't understand. He just easy sits. You know, it's not cool. My first job, 15, here's my money. Take it. I worked for that. That's my money.

And you're going to move my house to Texas? Almost ruin my whole life. But like, you know what I mean? Like it's, it's, but you just, that's what you're taught and raised. And I'm really pushing for a whole other. Like, it's beautiful, like climbing poetry. Just got this incredible, huge parcel of land upstate New York. And they've been working for five years with this, like,

curriculum that they're building so people can learn about activism and advocacy and all these different kinds of things but also built into it as health and wellness and care and they have spaces for our aging activists to come and live and live out their time because they recognize climbing poetry

is a beautiful group no I'm just going to look it up and I think everybody else should and it's really like there's stuff like that that is coming up that where people are really recognizing we can't keep sacrificing and martyring ourselves you know for la causa like we actually have to really take care of us. We want to have our elders.

So have a trans person be older than 35 is a revelation. To have, you know, the different activists that we have be in their 80s, like DeLore Suerta, is a revelation because they don't normally exist that wrong. For rappers to get past 50s a miracle. Right. You know, that's a miracle. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show, isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much. I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alespie and Michael Narengini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges.

This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wow. We got an earful. Like, this need to work up.

I'm like in the middle because it's time that they're going. is happening like in so many conversations. It was like the most woke episodes since Angela Ryan. They're like we need a glossary. Like you dropped a couple organization names and things that I feel like people need to. Yeah, we'll post them up on. And also just because literally like coming here and made me again think about that dinner and like how much I've been reflecting on that lately about like.

Damn. Just like so funny. And I love how the story is so different from you. But I go back to that story all the time about just like walking out of there. And it was the first time, like, I remember walking out and him being like, that was just abusive. That's terrible. And I was like, wait, what? I'm sorry.

Oh, wow. Like, the fact that that didn't, like, I didn't even, like, I just accepted it. Like, that was just normal conversation. Oh, like, this was a fun night that we all had dinner and laugh. Like, we're talking about. And then I was like, yeah, maybe everybody's showing each other's scars from being hit with a chancleta or a cast iron pot from across the room. It's not charming necessarily. One times.

No, I'm playing. Oh, boy. Okay, so, of course, you don't know when season two is coming on. You got your computer. What else? I already Googled the date's not out there yet. Okay, that boom. I'll hit up show and see.

It happens here. White frequency. So what do you have coming up in the future as far as projects are concerned? God damn it. There's so much we didn't ask. We didn't ask about the Prince, the ninth, Damn it. Let's ask.

That's what my weird question was about. I thought somebody was going to cut me off and be like, yeah, friends. A rapid fire just won't. Yeah. Don't wait for us to do it. Anyway, our rapid fire last minute questions. Yeah, how did you do that in 1999, the poetry thing? Well, you've done a lot.

Well, you remember because I talked to you about it at that time. Yeah, and he had called me at 19. I was shooting a film with Usher in Chicago called Light It Up. Oh, my God, I remember it. Light it up. I remember that. You're probably seen. Yes.

I've seen every Usher film. I've seen that one in the mix where he was the DJ. You got that. You sure love that. Well, he's also and she's all that, right? He was the DJ and she's all that. That was more of a little Kim movie. That was fucking funny though.

Fuck the bullshit. Little Kim was in that. Little Kim was in that is what she was the black. She was the diversity hires. So Lil Kim got that one. But yeah, that's right. You were in like because that was the one where we were a cop, right? Or you were the girlfriend of Usher, I thought.

It was 19. Love interest of Usher. Yeah, you used the, okay, and that was the one where, like, his dad was a cop or was a firefighter and died. It was the thing of, like, the kid at the school was homeless and living in there. And then they got, there was a, you know, the cop shut down the space, the security guard. Because Forrest Whitaker was the cop. Yes. I remember that.

All, all of us. Vanessa Williams. All both of them. She, like, the principal. Vanessa Williams. So dope. Like, I hanged with her daughter, you know, if you guys like Lion Baby. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, Vanessa was that. Fabulous. Oh wow. So the 1999. He called me. He called me out of the blue and said I wrote, I'm doing the 1999 remix album and I want, he said, you're of the voice of a generation and I want you to read this poem or piece because it would sound weird if I said it. So you should read it.

And I was like, huh. So exactly. Lala. Of course, that would make sense. And then, you know, so I got to go to Paisley Park and everything. It was pretty powerful. Lala did marry a basketball player. No, she did not.

She did. Lala? Yes. No, she did. Your figure of Lala, Anthony. I know. That's the, it was a joke. Oh, sorry.

I was like, wait, what? Here we go, y'all. Oh, yeah. Come on, man, it's only two Lala. No, I was totally lost. I had my hand on that button for the last 90 minutes. Give me a reason. Give me a reason.

Give me a reason to press this button. Amazing. Man, you're worrying. Light up. Now I'm thinking about light it up now. That's your shit. You're going to watch it. I might have to watch it.

Good soundtrack. Was there a soundtrack to it? Yeah. That's your movie. No, the good soundtrack was right. Yeah, I'm going to tell me. I'm going to have to check double not. So, yeah.

And also with, how did you get on she lives in my lap? That was interesting because Andre 3,000 asked me to be in a music video for that song. And I said, sure. And he was like, cool. So we're still doing some stuff on the stuff. song do you want to come by the studio so then I came by the studio and he was like you know would you jump on the track so then I jumped on the track and then we never did the video I'm on the track I love you I hate you interesting okay okay so yeah but I

was going to say have you did you have any aspirations to sing and do that because you were also you did Shakespeare in the park yep you did the which was the which was the Mdermida version of it yeah two gentlemen of Verona yeah I wanted to see that Rent and... Yeah, I love singing, actually. That's the thing I always wanted to do, was sing and dance. Yeah, and you sing and rent. So when I did rent and I'm on set and I'm singing and dancing and I'm getting paid for it,

I was like, this is the most remarkable thing on the entire world. I can't even believe it. This is incredible. So, yeah, I still really love that. That's the space where it's like, you know, part of the healing thing is just doing things that you actually love for no reason. I don't know. I want to be doing big tours or...

It's not like a career that I want to exploit like that, but I just love singing. Wait, you told me. And I love dancing. You went to music camp. No. No, you told me, you, wait, when you did a Joe seeing the pussycats, like they were teaching you how to do the, play the bass a little bit, the electric bass. Right, right.

Okay, I thought they put you through like a. No, that would have been amazing. But that was one of those ones that were more like 80s movie where they were like, your cast and then here's the band that's actually going to be. That you're going to lip sing too. While Rentz was actually us singing, which was really amazing. Oh, okay. Okay.

No, I... Not the same thing. Josie. I liked Josie because it was real. I keep thinking you're saying Jodicy. Sorry. Jodicy and the pussy Kinsey. That movie was so ahead of its time.

Did y'all see the new Josie? Y'all see what they look like on Riverdale? Hell yeah. Kind of cool. Do you watch Netflix? Do you have favorite shows on Netflix? Other than Luke Cage. Obviously, yes.

I just finished watching Sensate that I met, which is everything. I want my seven other persons that I can connect to. I'm so mad. Miss, they switched the African dude, but yes, it's everything. I want that so bad. I heard they just made like a big special, like movie, whatever. They canceled it.

And then, but they did shoot something to kind of, because it's kind of a cliffhanger. They just left us on. But that is like probably one of the most interesting kind of stories that I've seen in a long time. That wasn't like a Black Mirror episode or Twilight Zone where I just got really like Dudley arc, like whatever. It's so amazing.

But like, this was like really different. But like, like, I want. that. Like, is that possible? Emotionally evoking. Like, I was moved and kind of cried a couple of times. I'm not many times do I see stuff that's sex where I'm like, you know, this is just totally exploitative.

Because when you have sex with hate people. It's the sexiest. I mean, it's really, they have an actual trans actress. I mean, it's like so, it's diverse. It takes place over different parts of the world. There's accents in different languages and like, it's beautiful.

It's kind of perfection. Sense 8 is like, I think my favorite thing that's existing out there. In that sense. Yeah, I've never seen it. I've heard about it. People will be telling me about I haven't. You passed by it.

It's like a sci-fi kind of idea, like, whatever. Like, you know, it's just, you know, I think that we could tap into that part of ourselves that we could, you know, psychically be connected and be bonded to other people in the world. And then we could tap into them. So it's like, I don't need to know kung fu or this or that. But like when I need that capacity. And it really, I think the message so beautifully of that is like really

recognizing who you are. and your value and doing that really powerfully and beautifully. And then sharing your space with the other interconnected people that you're in so that when like it doesn't matter if you can't do that thing because you know someone who can. That's what a Korea moment was so amazing. Like her story, the Korean girl. Watch with the spoilers. Sorry.

No, it's just a story. No, she's just saying her storyline was on. Just making sure. But it is. It's really powerful and beautiful. All right. I'm done. That's messed up.

You all that he's giving them to her. I'm fake on the trigger This is what happened when nobody Watch your show One question we were talking about sex scenes A question I always had for you Was about trans Which I really love that movie

Like I really I really enjoyed that movie The nude scene What is that like? I was an interesting contract Yeah so I'm going through that My lawyer

And then being like Okay so they cannot show the clitoral hood Wow I was like This is a very interesting conversation I haven't even gotten on set yet.

Yeah, no, it's, you know, I'm all for hair. So I made me mad that like, you came off. Oh, thank you. You're all, man. My bad, my bad. Sorry, my bad.

Yes. Sorry. Yeah. You know, so like, you know, but that's a whole thing in the movie, yeah. And so how many times did you have to tape that? And how is it you in a room full of people or what's that like? Yeah, I mean, it was as many people as,

like barely needed to be in there. You know what I mean? It's always, you know, that that kind of stuff is usually done pretty well. Though it's not to say that, you know, on many different sets, many different people, including myself, or not taking advantage of, like, changes on the day that are actually illegal, but oftentimes we don't know. Oh, wow. So, you know, that's some of the interesting things about sitting down with SAG of just going,

well, we need to have this on the books. And they're like, that does exist. And you're like, we don't know that. Obviously the novice actress or actor going on set does not know that they have this right or not, you know? But yeah, no, on that one, I mean, it's, I mean, that was definitely one of the most remarkable experiences I'd ever had. You know, and you think about Danny and the work that he's done. Like, going back to kids, like, that was an amazing moment for Robert and Danny. And, like, there was just a group of, like, that was the era of independent film and, like, this complete provocation of storytelling.

that hadn't existed before and that definitely was built off the backs of people like, you know, Cassavetes and all that kind of stuff. But like it was a huge turning for, you know, filmmaking. And I got to work with that person. Wow. And like, you know, and I've gotten to work with a lot of those people, you know. So it's like everyone to Kevin Smith, you know, like so you're on set with these folks who have a really totally different kind of, you know, like who came there as like nerds and like

film lovers and like, you know, really changed storytelling in a lot of ways. And so you're on set with Spike or this. You know, like I got to be on these sets with people who were, you know, really created an environment where you're showing up and you're rehearsing and you're taking it super seriously. Like, and they're established and they've done something. So it's not the same thing as like a lot of, you know, first time directors or things that I've worked with, which is a whole other experiences was really powerful

and, you know, pushes you to and challenges you in different ways. But this one is like, you know, these are people who, you know, can say we're going to have a couple weeks of rehearsal and we're going to do this and this is what we you know and like get like incredibly you know I'm on on on on 25th hour man I have a question about that yeah some of the most amazing actors and like people and their process so different and like that's you know that's been my acting school I've learned so much from so many of the people that I've had the opportunity to work with so a question about 25th hour I need to know the part where you're on the couch and you're eating cheese whiz. Was that

scripted or was that? A honey. Cheese whiz. Was it cheese whiz? No, was it? Was it honey? Was it cheese whiz? Were you, oh, I think she would know. No, no, no, I'm trying to remember. Was it, was the, maybe it looked like the container was cheese whiz. It might have been honey in it. But I can specifically remember it was, I thought it was cheese whiz. No.

Was that like an important moment in the movie? It's very important. I mean, whether it's a cheese whiz or honey. Well, no, no, well, this is why. shit. Well, no, this one, all these years, I thought the shit was... All these years, I thought the shit was Cheez-Wris. You had, actually, you met home, but recently I saw it on one of your stories. Oh, hell yes.

You were like, do it, do it, do it. She did it know, she gotta have it, too, I thought it was. Yeah, he was on it. No, all these years, I thought it was cheese whiz. And I thought it was a great detail because I thought it just showed... I've not seen the movie in a long time, but I'm pretty sure it was honey. But I love the fact that... Pretty sure it was honey.

And if it's not, it was... peanut butter, but I'm pretty sure I was honey. That's a randomest question. You made the attention to the detail of, you know, but that's the type of duty is. I love it. No, because what it resonated me, like the message that I took from it

or that I glint at the time was that you can have like a woman that's like as fine as Rosario Dawson, but she can eat cheese whiz out the jaw. And she can steal something disgusting like that. Don't cheese with. So that's why. Philly.

That's so nasty. That shit is horrible. It is horrible. That cheese whiz. It's not cheese. Cheese whiz is. Not a food. Like that shit is a, that's a lab.

I'm from feeling, man. No, I hear you. Yeah, y'all got that. But I thought it was, I thought it was cheese was all these years. Amazing. And I thought that was just a great detail. I mean, I'm going to have to go back, but I'm pretty sure it was honey. Now, I'm watching tonight.

Just see if it was. Maybe they digitally altered it. Maybe peanut butter. But I can't imagine it was. Ah, okay. So, yeah, if, are you singing fame right now? I was singing peanut butter jelly pie. I just, that's what I thought of.

Oh, I feel you're singing a song from fame. As far as your acting career or your acting career or your, entertainment career. Like, are there anything, are there anything, is there anything left that you've yet to conquer that you wish to do? I always say I want to do a heaving chest, corset drama. I'm a vampire. Heaving, heaving chests. Yeah, that's so funny because it's a classic piece of every I want to do some really dope, like fun comedy stuff as well. Like, I really love that I got to do that with top five and I've had some opportunities to do stuff like that but like

you know like I love that world it's such a different timing and energy and kind of pushing myself in that way you know and do that like I love top five I did too I love top five did you already have your haircut like that or was it okay I did and that was one of the things I was like I am not as New York is going to be 108 degrees

I am not wearing a wig I will be miserable good for you and he was like if you do this movie I will be fine with your hair like that And then it was interesting. Like I wanted to cut my hair like that for a really long time. And then I ended up doing it first in City 2. And then thinking, fuck, this is going to cost me a lot of work. And then I ended up being able to wear it in top five and in Daredevil.

Oh, wow. It was a whole big thing with Marvel for a really, really long time about what to do with my hair. And then they were like, who cares? And I was really surprised. And then I realized how dark they were shooting it and you don't even notice it. That's something I've never even thought about. Do you have to warn your agent like, I think I want to go blind today or a day?

Oh, yeah, they were like, everyone was freaked out because it's like, you know, I, you know, Sin City 2, I think I shot like three days on. They were like, you're cutting, you're shaving your head for three days. Do you know how long that's going to take to Dr. How long as it took to grow back to ground? But you can't think that. Like, it's got to, you know,

wanted to show up and do something fun for the movie. How long does it take to grow back to? It actually grew, for me, my hair grows really fast. So it was like another, in like a year my hair was already. Half as long as long as it. a black girl. That's going to take another 10 years. We have to come back. Them curls are tight. All right. So you want to do a comedy and a period piece with a cross-I?

I want to produce more. I want to tell stories that I'm not necessarily acting in. What is the story you want to make first? I'm telling you. Okay. Let somebody else steal it? Yeah, yeah. That's just totally the way that it is. But I have like shows that I want to create and all types of things. I think it's just really important because again, like to see the movies and the reflection of the type of storytelling

and the casting that I want to see and to just wait around for someone else to put that together is not going to happen. So like you have to make it happen and that's what I really want to do. More power to you. Thanks, me.

From your mouth to your ears. When I call you for that soundtrack. And that investment in that in the place. Let Bob B don't do that shit. I just want to DJ that. I just want to DJ that. I know you can have. I've been to your food salons.

I know you have long since past the balking at a four-digit. I just want to DJ in the after-party. Petty Riley. Yeah, man. And Black Street. Well, thank you, Rosario. Oh, yo, I just want to tell you, again, going back to trance, you set a line in there that, like, really changed my life. I'm serious, man, it's real shit.

You said, to be angry is to be a victim. Yes. And like that totally changed my outlook on like the way I look at anger. Like whenever I spend myself getting angry, I think myself like, am I really a victim in this shit? No, I ain't no victim. Fuck that. Well, Marvin said that best, you know.

Anger. Anger. You know, destroy your soul. It makes you sit there. It makes you sit children. Anger destroy yourself. No, yeah. There's no room for a range of you.

I think you make some words in that song. There's no room for rage. for rage. Yeah. Okay. I didn't see friends. So I'm just, I'm taking it all in.

That's nice. It's a sin to treat your body bad. Yeah, I really, I've been listening to that song, and I said those lines, and I still succumbed to the devil of anger. Really, really fiercely these past couple years, and I think it's just because I did not actually really have the access or words

to really understand the space that I was in and what I needed to do to meet my needs. that that wouldn't happen. Do you go to therapy? I've taken some, but really I have to say the nonviolent communications book that exists has been really powerful to recognize what are faux feelings, like disrespect. Like you can't feel disrespect. You can feel anger because your need for respect is not getting met. And like those are different things.

So like, you know, it's not about blame or judgment. The only thing that's kind of hokey about it is like they have, they say it's either jackal speak or giraffe speak. So internally, your inner critic or how you yell at someone else or how you self-emopathize or you give other empathy. Jackals, because, you know, the spitting, biting, and then the giraffe because they have perspective. And they have one of the largest hearts in the animal kingdom to reach all of those extremities. Yeah, they did not know. But otherwise, it's about needs and really recognizing what true needs are, like for respect and community.

And it goes beyond for me, what I was taught, survival, especially growing up in a squat. It's about food, water, shelter. basics, yeah. But like love, friendship, shared reality, connection, community, compassion. Those are needs. Like, a child will die if it's not touched. You know, we need each other. And those are the things that I've always forfeited for these strategies.

And I finally learned that I need to warn when something's not getting met, not just keep bashing my head at it and trying to make it or force it to happen or sacrifice to make it happen. It's about going, okay, the strategy isn't working. and I have to figure out another avenue to get my need meant. And that's something I've just picked up in the past couple months,

which has been really life-changing. Thank you for paying forward. Nonviolent communication by Marshall Rosenberg, who died unfortunately, but he would do conflict resolution. I mean, you're talking about with tribes that had been generationally fighting each other, and you killed my son, so I killed your son

and being able to sit there and go, can you at least both agree that your need for safety is not being met which is why then you're being violent with each other. Can we just agree and then to that so that we could see each other as our humanity and we can figure out a way to communicate and negotiate for both of our needs to be met

rather than just beating each other and fighting each other indefinitely. And there is an audio book. So thank you for that. You're very welcome. Wow, man. The more you know. And knowing us have the battle.

Word to my man. Jeffrey Isaac Joe. All right. So any more questions about cheese wins before I sign up? Jeffrey Isaac Joe. Yeah. Jeffrey with a G. Yeah, with a G.

Shut up. I wasn't his name. Yes, it was. His name is, yeah. Jeffrey. Joe was Jeffrey Isaac Joe? He wasn't. I was just total bullshit.

I was just joking. Did you know that gullible isn't in the dictionary? You know what? I'm kidding. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're part of the family now. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I love you. Wait a minute. Before we sign off, this is one question I have to ask. How in God's name did you get pre-we're going to play nice and friendly with each other, guns and roses? How did you get the motherfuckers to play your birthday party at that club? Amazing moment.

Like Axel? What Axel? Yeah. And it was incredible. Like what? For your 30th? No, it was like my 27th or 28th birthday. Yeah, because your mom hit me up. It was like So Crens of Roses is going to play at the

And I was like wait, the club only holds like I know, it was really small. A couple hundred. I was like, I think I heard about this. There was some of a fight happening between Tommy Hill figure And somewhere down. Because they were sat at the same booth and like Tommy's girlfriends got like offended because I think Axel sat down and moved her drink or whatever and Tommy like leapt over the table mom mom was standing there and watched and she was like

yo he tried to eat Axel Rose. Yo, I'm so proud of Tommy. I would have never thought that. That's good for him. And then the security threw him out because it was like, sorry to break it to you, but this is Axel's night. Like he's going to perform. And it was amazing because I remember we asked and then of course he said no because it was it would be an acoustic performance,

and he'd never done an acoustic performance. And then he came back and was like, you know what? Actually, I've never done an acoustic performance. That would be really cool. And it was his idea to put the lyrics of his music, like karaoke style, scrolling in the back. So everybody could sing along.

Because he didn't go on until super late, and he knew everyone was going to be really drunk, stupidly, horribly, inefficiently, screaming the lyrics into his face. And it's so small, they would all be like right on top of each other. He was like, I am not going to painfully go through this. that. And then it was like one of the, he's saying to me, he's saying happy birthday.

He dedicated sweet child a month to me. He did November rain. I mean, it was like, amazing. I'm going to ask again. How? My friend Jameson was had, they were doing something in town. He was like, should I ask? And I was like, yeah.

And then I guess he was just the timing. He just thought. Never happens to me, man. And he came out. And he was, and he was corn roll axel rose at the, Yeah, that was when he had the, that was amazing. Straight backs.

Give me some reggae. I was just about to say it. He was so. I need some regular right now, boy. It was like childhood, like amazing. Oh, boy. Yeah. I couldn't believe that happened that night.

I love you. This is fun. Well, I need you to throw parties for me. I got you. Nobody will come to. You got to come. Mom, Fung. I'm inviting you.

You need to come through when we, yo. So I have a fashion line based in Ghana. What? We do all artisanal stuff, and we've been doing this for a few years now. And we just did an awesome fashion show in September in New York. And it was incredible. One of my friends invited Paula Addual. And it was like incredible, Jojo Abbott performed.

I was working that night. That's why I couldn't come. And the name of this line? It's called Studio 189. And our whole thing is fashion rising. So going and getting people work so that then they can put their own kids through school. so it's sustainable, you know, activism and advocacy.

And it's been amazing. We're based in a crowd. We have a store in New York and Elizabeth Street. Between Houston and Bleeker. And we do men's and women's and home, and indigo and Batique. And it's really beautiful. And someone invited Paula Abdul.

Wow. And our whole, like, fashion show was like a dance party. It was incredible. And, like, everyone was like, Jesse Boykin's a third book was in it. And we've had, like, Delphine Thialos. taking photographs for us and like lion babe is shown up i mean we've had like incredible people who are

you know young paris and people over the years princess nokea just came to our spot in in in uh florida and like came through moses come through and like thrown on some of our you know indigo kimonos and stuff and that's really dope but like you know i want you to come because i think you'd really love it and it was amazing because we had this dance party and then paul abdul was there and she started dancing with me and i was like oh my god who would have known i needed to create an artisanal African clothing brands in Ghana to live out

my childhood dream of dancing with Paul Abdul. I mean it was like... The same person could just ask Paula Abdul to come and dance your birthday party. P.S. these clothes are amazing. Thank you. I will tell her, Brema, you said so. Okay, well, thank you very much,

Rosario, for coming on. Yes. We appreciate it. We've learned a lot. And, yeah, I still say, Got a lot to think about. I still say that you're running for president 20. No, I would, I really, the idea of being president is so scary to me because the second you start work, you've got blood on your hands.

Yeah. The second you start, as a senator or congressperson, though, I could be fighting from day one because war is not peace. So I could be fighting against having that. So that's why that looks interesting to me. Okay. Congresswoman Dawson. Senator Dawson.

Senator Dawson. and DJing that after party. I was the first one to be DJ Wicca Wicca. DJ Senator Dawson. I want to be like a hype woman. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. I'm DJing that goddamn after party.

Anyway, on behalf of Fon Tickalo, boss Bill, Sugar Steve, Sweet Feet. And this is, thank you, Rosario. This is Questlove, signing off, and we'll see you on the next room. Thank you.

Westlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHartRadio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

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