The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Shep Gordon

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Artist manager Shep Gordon shares behind-the-scenes stories about Alice Cooper, Teddy Pendergrass, Luther Vandross and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Yo, yo, what up? This is Fonte. Back again with another QLS classic. This one, we take this one back to October 16, 2016. This was episode six of our show where we sat down with one of the most iconic managers in all of music. Shep Gordon. He came in to Quest Love Supreme and he talked about his time of Luther Vandros,

Tate Pendergrass, Alice Cooper, and countless others. This was a really fun episode. Shep was a lot of fun. Y'all enjoy this? QLS Classic. Spontico. Yep. Suprima Role call. Suprema, Subrama, Sur, Subima, Subima, Sur, Subima role call. Supraima, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Supremma, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Yeah. I have a fence. Yeah.

Don't get mad, Steve. Yeah. I didn't rhyme the word. You think I was... Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. My name is Fonte. Yeah.

I am a trooper. Yeah. My favorite singer. Yeah. It was Jerica Lufa Lufa. Supriva. Supriva Role called. Supriva, Ssa, Subima Role call.

Supraima. Roll call. My name is Sugar. Yeah. You know my stench. Yeah. It's nice to meet you. Yeah.

Supermensch. So, call. Suprema, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Suprema, sub, subprima, roll call. Lost Bill is here. Yeah. Quest love Supreme. Yeah.

Thank you for listening. Yeah. To this Pandora stream. Ro call. Supriva. Subima, sub, sub, subprima, role call. Suprima. Subra roll call.

My name's Lair. Yeah. I love the brothers. Yeah. But Shep. Yeah. Got me thinking about the others. Hey, man.

Suprema, Shat, Suprema Role Call. Suprema, Subrema, Subrema role call. My name is Chef. Yeah.

I come from Maui. Yeah. I'm looking for a joint. Yeah. And I have no idea how to rhyme that. Right. I love you more. Subram.

Supreme Roll Call. Supremia, Submina, Submina, Role Call. Supremma, Subrema, Superma roll call.

Suprema, Suprema, Superma Roll Call. That was perfect. Thank you. What's up, ladies and gentlemen? This is Questlove. How are you doing?

We are live at Electric Lady Studios. I'm sitting here with Team Supreme. How you doing, guys? West. Doing good, doing good, right on, right on. Solid.

Oh, man. I'm really excited today because the guru of all gurus, one of the best most powerful managers, most effective managers

in music, is with us today, Shep Gordon. He, some of the greatest name him Luther Vandros Alice Cooper Blondie

Blondie Teddy Pendergrads Emeraldi Emeraldi Emeraldi Food? He does food too He do food too That's amazing

Yes of course He invented the Foodie so We're just going to try I actually want to pick his brain Just Not many people know that Have seen the Super Minch

documentary that Mike Myers did. For those that don't know when they were shooting Wayne's World and requested Alice Cooper to come on the movie to do a cameo, we're not worthy, we're not worthy. That's how Mike Myers got to know Shep Gordon. And when he heard his life story, he was like, one day, I'm going to make a story of your life. So, I mean, some 19, 20 years later, he made that documentary.

but because Shep's clientele is so expansive and lodge, not many people know that he has managed some of the greatest, most powerful names in black music. I mean, they cover Teddy Pendergrass, but, I mean, as we mentioned, Midnight Star, Midnight Star, Rick James, and appointed, yeah. Kenny Loggins. Right? For real, no.

Kenny Loggins was black. That stuff sounds like Michael Jackson. Kenny Loggins was black for a couple. Yeah, one of the great voices of our time. Thank him, Justin. All right, so. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

So we're going to pick his brain a little bit. But, you know, I want to know how you guys are doing. What's up, Fonte? Man, I'm in the middle of trying to move from my goddamn house. And shit is tiring. Shit is tiring. Man. You're doing it on your own?

Hell, no, I'm hiring movers. Wait, what part is tiring? It's just like, because you don't realize how much shit you have. have until you start taking away shit that you sit your shit on. So like, you know what I mean? So like, you know what I mean? Oh, you have a little TV on the big TV? I'm not that gutter.

Not I'm, you know, I'm past the tag. Did you once have a small TV on a? Abs of fucking loose. We had the, we had the floor model that didn't work. And then we had the TV on top of it. Yet that, you know, that did that had, you know, it had the big back a little bit. So now, man.

But no, I'm in the process of moving, you know what I'm saying? And packing up all my music. And that's like been the biggest thing, like clearing my media rack with all my like CDs and vinyl and DVDs. You still keep your CDs and your cassettes? Now my cassettes I don't, but my CDs I do. My whole thing is like... Now you're going to have to downsize that you're like... I did.

I have downsize. I called the hurt. I think I got like maybe like 200 copies of the 200 CDs away. So I got. 200 out and it was just stuff that You threw them away? No, no, I didn't throw them away. I didn't throw them away. I donated them like to Goodwill or whatever. So you're not seeing them again.

You would have hated me in 2009. I'll tell Wait, you gave stuff away? I threw stuff away. Oh, wow. What did you throw away? I just a whole month, like, this was right at the end of my record label days. So I had a ton of just shitty promos and stuff that couldn't sell them for anything. So I just put them out on the corner.

I used to sell them on Amazon for like $5. See, that's like too much work. Oops, did I just say? Game theory. copies of white tea by the franchise boys. I mean, that's exactly the kind of stuff I was throwing out. You know, all those crappy Universal Records promos in the blue sleeves that nobody bought. Hey, I won't lie.

Like, we realized that if we went up to Geffen Records and Jack a couple boxes, we could sell them and make cash. So there was a period where we were, like, stealing our own promos. Y'all was big red, bootlegging your own shit. I love it. But after a while, they're like, talk, I don't need no more distortion and static, you know. I already got like 200 copies. Wow.

But yeah, that's been me, man. Just like packing up and like getting rid of shit and handling life stuff. It's been interesting being absolved into the Questlove universe because you are on your own time. And it is a lot, you know what I'm saying? But we do it because we love you. our great co-leader. You better be honest. You know what I'm saying?

Honest bug just slapped them. Now, wait, stop it. All of you. Stop it. I know. Like you. I ain't said shit. Please, Fonte.

That was hell. No, no, we do it. Look, we do it in service of our fear. I'm honored to be in your presence. I work for this really great guy. All right. I'm skipping all of you. Actually, we have someone new in our midst.

Actually, Scott is like our boss. He's the boss of bosses. He's the boss of bosses. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. At first, I didn't like you around because I just felt this pressure. Well, let's be clear. The arms is going.

Let's be clear. You used to stand behind me like the angel of death. Yes. Well, I got seated there. I didn't actually choose that place. But I felt bad about being there. Yeah, he did. He did.

He actually hit me up the next day. And he was like, oh, man. I hope he didn't feel it. I mean, you know, like the family guy episode where like the angel of death is just chill and talking to Peter like any second. he can die like any email i've ever got from scott i'm like oh shit i just lost the show i lost the show's going how are we doing scott great okay it's amazing no no i mean literally how are we question oh sorry we have a job this time next year yes what is what is what is the what is the

need for us to always check that if we're going to have employment yo i think that's a black shit like we like we're always like okay uh I think every black person that has had some success, like we're always secretly, like, waiting for, like, that white man to come and just take everything away. You know, seriously, I was literally just thinking my going through my work history and, like, pretty much anytime I got an email from any, any, my supervisors or whatever, I was like, oh, that's it. Any time. Yeah. Let's hope in the future that still have my 18 jobs.

That's all I'm saying. So Steve, how are you doing, pal? I'm good. How are you? Great. Is it good to be back at an electric lady studio? Oh, yeah. This is amazing.

I love being here. Vibe is great. Staff is great. All the memories and so forth. You started from the bottom here, right? Look at me now. I'm here. Look at me.

Is that the line? That's that last. He turned into Phil Collins. Start from the bottom and take a look at me now. Field of God. I feel good. I miss Bill Sherman, who's not here, so I'm going to be doing this.

Where is Bill? That's a makeup for Bill. Bill. Bill is in L.A. He is working on a TV show that he and I both will be employed on. Okay. See, you're getting your jobs on one. I'm getting my job.

Yo, I told you, Questlove. I want to be like Questlove when I go on. You get your job, bro. I'm getting my jobs up, man. That's perfect. That's awesome. I'm not complaining. So, of course, our special guests today on Quest Love Supreme, what can I say?

I mean, at the very beginning of the Tonight Show, we had a guest, Mike Myers, on promoting a movie, a documentary called Super Mitch. On Netflix right now. Yes, it's on Netflix right now. And it instantly caught my attention because, I mean, you know, I thought I was going to see. a music documentary. And instead, I got a life lesson. Yeah, it was like the greatest TED talk ever. Yeah.

But like not way cooler than a TED talk. The more, the most creative tech of all time. Way more emotional. Yeah. So, you know, about our next guest, Shep Gordon is, I mean, he's a guru. He's a manager, an organizer, a conceptualizer. And most importantly, he's a friend to everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Questlove Supreme Shep Gordon.

Thank you. Hello, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for the Netflix plug. Oh, yeah, man. We watched it. I watched it for the first time a couple nights ago. And I remember one of the first things I can remember, you know, when, you know, when getting to the business, my friend of mine told me he was like, your manager has got to be, whoever you choose is your manager, that has got to be the guy that knows where all your bodies are buried.

Like, that's got to be the guy. No secrets. None. It's got to know everything. Whatever drug you want, whoever girl you're sleeping with, whatever, all the dirt. Like, your manager has to be the guy

to know it because he's the guy that has to protect you from it. You know what I mean? So you're saying that if you were to pass away, you have somebody to run to the house and clean up a little bit. Oh, yeah. Brother, everyone needs a Mr. Wolf.

Everyone needs a Mr. Wolf. And watch. the Super Mitch documentary, I was just like, yo, Shep Gordon is the ultimate Mr. Wolf. Like, he's the ultimate, like, manager that anyone could ever wish for. Now, we're broadcasting here at our, at our home in Electric Lady. And I, you know, of your connection with Jimmy Hendricks, you said you were here when he...

Yeah, I lived on 9th Street and 5th Avenue. Okay. And I had a good friend of mine, Alan Douglas, who had a daughter who was the same age as a child I was raising. And he was here at the time doing some over. Jimmy had passed away. And this was the first album coming out after he passed away. They brought in John McLaughlin and a bunch of people to play on it. They said that they had found the guitar part only and rebuilt the record.

and I used to drop my the girl I was not my daughter but the girl I was raising here and they'd babysit for it while they were working here at the electric lady land. Wow. Yeah, because it was all part of, you know, it was such a different business then.

You know, it was a family. We all knew each other. It wasn't like random people were coming in to use a studio. There was no studio business. It was basically acts that was signed by. a record company and everybody sort of knew so it was very family see that's when when uh

i did my residency here back in i started in 97 was edie kramer here then uh you know the first year they that's when they first started to re-release uh a lot of hidden uh not the hidden the um unreleased uh hentric stuff um so janey hentricks and and edie had crazy stories for us like They played us all these tapes and everything. And, you know, like, it's funny. Like, this was like, I consider this my home because I did, like, a majority of my work at the studio from, like, 97 until, like, 2004. And I think, like, between 98 and 2002, like, I mean, there would be times where I just, like, slept here in the studio. But that was the way it was then.

That was sort of the way it was. You know, you came in, you'd spend 60 days, 45 days. You'd sort of live here. You'd do your record. It was a different, the recording process was a very, I think. I never recorded, so I don't know, but I think a very different process. It was a much more creative collaboration. And if someone was in Studio B, you'd bring them in and they'd work on the record with it.

It wasn't this territorial weird thing. The same thing here. Like, we would, there be clients in the C room upstairs, and we'd be in the A room downstairs, and then we sneak over and B, see what they're up to. I need a background vocal. Anybody? Yeah, and poach people and do that.

So, for those that haven't seen the film, I guess, the beginning of your management career was, Alex Cooper, 69. 69. And, I mean, at the time, I mean, for me, like a manager, there's two types of manager. One is like super established.

Like if you go to like a company and someone that's like ultra-established and then someone that's just your road buddy that's organized. I mean, you haven't had any experience in the music business. Like were you kind of worried about how to navigate? You know, I never really thought about it. I did it as a, mine was a cover. I got into being a manager So if someone asked me how did I make a living I could say I was a manager

Jimmy Hendrick said to me one He said I was I was a dealer And on a very low level And he said What are you going to do if the police ask you Where you make your money You know where I grew up you need to You wear a new watch

You better be able to tell the cop where you got to watch And I said you know I'm a middle class Jew Long Island they don't police don't come to you Yeah, I was about to say, like, was it equal opportunity? Yeah, I don't ask you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But that's crazy because in watching the documentary, I sat there and I wondered, I was like, at the point where you and Alex Cooper said, okay, we're going to do this,

you had to have more expertise than just a dealer. Like, how did you? No, you'd be amazed with me the drug dealer who could teach you about it. And you know what Alice says, his words are, Shep and I met on a lie. I told him I was a singer. He told me he was a manager. Wow.

Wow. But what happened was people started getting busted around me, and I didn't want to deal anymore. So I sat down with Alice, and I said, I have no idea what I'm doing. And he said, I have no idea what I'm doing. And I said, well, let's figure it out and get rich. And let's agree to stay together until we didn't. So I never thought of myself as a manager. It was trying to earn lunch.

I didn't even know what a manager was. There was no rules for a manager. I had never met a manager. But I had this idea that if we could piss off parents, kids would come to us and that we could hire people to make music. And that's where we focused. And that's where all of our stunts came from. Our focus at band meetings was how do we piss off parents?

And that's where the chicken came from, and that's where the name came from. Now, okay, from our side of the fence, especially because we're not the target rock audience. Right. Like, I'm certain that, you know, both you, Fonte, I'm talking to Fonte right now, like, we were brought up at least in this Baptist or Christian background. Very much so. It didn't take much to piss off our parents. Yeah. Not the Jewish world either. It's just like, from our point of view, it's always like I was taught, especially the church I went to, like this Pentecostal church.

Oh, God. And which everything was of the devil and the same, you know, like, you would look at these. these, you know, you can look at Ozzy Osmore covers or Blue Oyster Colton, like, all these things. And you're thinking like, oh, man, there's a temple of devil worship. And basically, it's just like a marketing scheme. Like, how can we, like you were doing exactly. And by the way, Alice's father was a minister. His grandfather was the head of the church of Jesus Christ in America. He married the daughter of a minister. He reads the Bible every morning at five o'clock, since I know him. He goes to church on Sundays, and I had to hide all that because I said,

Wait, really? Well, yeah, people are going to like you. We can't have a like you. They hate you. So that was really our biggest challenge was not giving up who he was. But that's amazing though, man. I mean, because that's like a clear, like showing just the difference between your persona versus your identity. You know what I mean?

And the fact that he could hold on to who he was and not get lost in what else. He did. Oh, yeah, yeah. He got consumed. He went to rehab. He at the bottom. But I think most people who hit that level of fame, especially if they've done it as entertainers, have to deal with that moment where they're not being fulfilled. There's very few of the number oneers that I've come across who don't need an adjustment somewhere along the way, who don't fall to something.

You know, I've had so many, you know, Teddy's not around, Luther's not around. all the people I grew up with Jimmy Hendricks night at 27, Morrison at 27. There always was a link between fame and using crutches that really hurt you. What do you think that link is? Like, why do you think? You know, I think in the general world, but I think in the world that I lived in, which was live entertainers, the rejection is so gigantic to get to a place of success. It's so overwhelming.

that if it's just, if your goal is to just make a living or to have a career, you can't take all that rejection. So normally it's to fill some hole in you that you think that applause is going to fill some hole for you and it doesn't. And then you just get angrier and you use more crutches and, you know, hopefully you take a small fall

and you come back. Well, let me ask. I, okay, the way that my manager taught us to cope with it. And this is really weird because everyone around me was like, he's so negative. Why do you embrace like all that negativity?

And my mom, you know, she had problems with him and everything. But what I realized he was doing by the first year was he was just preparing us to not have any expectations. Like he told, he told me.

Richard Nichols. Yeah, Richard Nichols. Yeah. So, like Richard was. Like, Richard was basically like, you know, he's like, I'm not preparing you guys for a start. I'm like, I want you to have a long-term career. So I'd rather you guys, you know, live better than the average jazz musician. You know, now because we're in hip-hop, you're instantly thinking of this ticker-tape parade or what Rich called the Bentley moment.

I know that moment. Think of like your most salacious hype Williams video in slow motion. Right, yeah, completely. pouring champagne all over women like that that you know and he just wanted for us to sort of just get rid of that expectation like he would always say just lower your expectation and maybe the first year we started taking a person and then point fingers at each other it's your fault and well you drum to a drum click the DJs will play like all this stuff you know and then I will say that I'll say that protecting art ourselves helped us help me and tarika in the long run. I mean, some of us sort of fell by the wayside and kind of succumb to different vices and whatnot. But at least for Tarika and I, it kind of helped us. But then again, like 20 years later into it, I don't know if it's made us immune to emotional feelings.

Like I've, so you don't feel the good. So when you say that, you mean like you don't. feel the good stuff either. Well, I don't, yeah, I don't feel anything. Gotcha. And it's like, it's to the point where it's just like, I'm here, Steve, you wonder's on the show? Oh my God. Yeah, that's cool. Oh my God. I mean, like, what?

10 years ago, you would have been, like, and that's the thing. Like, I had to numb myself so much to protect, to keep myself from forming a jugger habit or suicide or whatever the vices that artists get into that now as a 40-plus year old man, like, Now I'm trying to get emotions back. Help him, chef. Yeah, no, it's funny you should say that

because from a completely the other side, I've come to the same place. I have, people ask me, is there anything you regret? It was one of the questions that's been asked, and I say, you know, one of the most satisfying nights of my life was Alice getting in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

It was 40 years of hard work. Right. And really amazing. And I went home and looked in the mirror and said, it worked and got into bed and watched CNN. 15 minutes after the thing. I didn't go to the party. I wish I could have shared in the love. And I said to Alice, the next thing, you know, it's weird.

I've always been like this. I don't know why. And he said, well, I was in bed 15 minutes after watching a movie. So we come up from the other side Because I manage them exactly the opposite way I used to sit them in a room And I would always tell clients If I do my job perfectly

It's very possible I'll kill you Because I'll make you so famous That you're going to kill yourself Or hurt yourself But I would tell them that And say that's what I do for a living It's the only thing I know how to do Other guys will make you more money

other guys will do a lot of stuff better than me. I know how to make you really famous. So is it almost better to go for second place? I don't know better. I don't, you know, hard for me to judge. But I think you do what you know how to do. I think it's, I think better. Like if I have someone I love,

I'm going through it now with my assistant's daughter, who I love, who's very talented, very beautiful. A lot of record companies are trying to sign her. And I take her and I hug her and I say, why don't you become a school teacher and have three kids? Because you're really happy now. And you're going to work for 30 years, the goal to be happy. And you're going to have to unwind a lot of stuff if you're successful.

Because that's really the goal, I think, for most people, is get happy, be able to buy dinner. That's fine. joy yeah and I think most artists work at it so hard and they get to the end of the row where they can be happy and they forgot how to be happy yeah it's like yeah it's the dog it's literally the dog chasing its own tail but I will say that there there is also an insatiable thing going on because you know like my goal for always you know there's always a deeper uh kind of in game every three or four years

you know back it and it's like man just okay just get one Grammy and I'll be happy yeah yeah yeah now it's like you never stop just by my mind one house and I'll be happy

and then I mean for now I don't know like okay what were your personal my personal like my life goals I don't believe in happy I believe in satisfied so okay

what would where would you really truly be satisfied but be artists are never honest nah I'm gonna keep look man come on you I always I know a lot of you brother for real all right we keep your hundred this quest loves a preen god damn is what we do

all right so look all right my happiness for me is again or my satisfaction you're satisfied my satisfaction my satisfied my satisfaction would be when I have enough money in the bank to where I can sit still for three years

at least three years and like not do shit like if I don't I don't got to go to a show I ain't got a fucking write not a song I ain't got a saying not one goddamn note I'm good for like what about 10 years sleep 10 is that is that um fat light though no no but I'm like is all right is three more realistic to you or 10 because I had the three year plan but then you and then if I get a bigger house and you addicted it's a that's a different I think that's human nature. No, that's a good. I love nature. No, no, no. I think it is human nature. I think for me, this is like

my whole thing and it's kind of, you know, what Shep was saying, you know, my thing was, I remember when I first got in, when I first, when I first started before, like, we had signed anything, I was working at a call center making $10 an hour. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, I'm in

college. I mean, I'm working at the fucking call center. It was, I mean, it was a shitty job, but I was like, look, it's $10 hour. I remember saying to myself specifically, if I could just get to a point in my career where I'm making $10 an hour rhyming doing what I love to do, I'm good. If I can do, if I can make $10 an hour and not be in this fucking call center

and gotta be nice to these people, I'm good. And so I got to that point. And so for me, my kind of moment of realization was I got to that point where I made way more than that. I mean, you know, crazy time more. But you still finding yourself asking for more. And so it's like, I had to check myself, It's like, man, that was a time in my place.

So I got the point I made $20 out. And it's like, man, I remember that was a point in my life. I never thought I was going to money. Yeah, really? Especially in the 90s. I'm ready. Let's get the job. Even now, even now where I am financially,

$20 out. I heard that. I was like, wait, where can I get that job? Hold on, let me update my goddamn link me. So for me, I just keep that in, I keep that in mind for me. Like there were times where whenever I get like depressed or overwhelmed, just whatever the case, I remember that there was a day I was praying for the things that I have now.

Absolutely. And that's just something that just keeps me kind of grounded. You know what I mean? I say I wake up and physically say thank you every day for all the gifts I have. It's amazing. I mean, all of us are sitting here. I've been to your house in Hawaii, so I do the same thing. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I got to ask you, because you established that you knew the quote-unquote 27 club, which consisted of Hendricks and Joplin and Jim Morrison. So, I mean, was this on a daily or a weekly basis that you would see these people? I'd see him. I'd see Janice lived at the motel. It was a Hollywood landmark motel where I ended up. Is that where the high it is right now?

No, right next to the Magic Castle on Franklin between Highland and LaGereere. It's still there. Yeah. Yeah. I know what it is. Right next to the driveway for the Magic Castle. Yeah. And Janice lived there.

So when she wasn't on the road, she was there every day. And with her southern comfort bottle and usually a guy in tow and a revolving door guy. Right. Jim would come by once in a while. I wasn't there all the time. The Chambers brothers lived there. Right. So they were there all the time.

Um, but it was, why was that particular spot the Hollywood mythical? I think because it was cheap, first of all. Um, it was cheaper than having your own property or? Oh yeah. This was $34 a night for the room. Oh, wow. Um, you know, this was not a fancy. This was a very bare roots hotel. In those days, $34 was still something, but it was very cheap. It was a hotel, California swimming pool two stories around it and um for some reason you know it was just music friendly and you'd go to the pool and on a typical afternoon would be arthur lee wow um who was really interesting because he when he was there he was the creative leader when they would sit around the pool and play he's the one who would say you take this take a background vocal we'll do this

song you do this everybody would look at him he was the he was like they'd bow to arthur lee he was the real power in the room. So you're describing this utopian atmosphere where Arthur Lee in Love and Janice Joplin would just sing like on acoustic guitars. Usually it was Bobby Newark would start. Bobby Newark was Bob Dylan's road manager

and also became a folk singer later on in his life. He was usually the instigator. Paul Rothschild lived there who was the producer of a lot of the Doors records great producer. Right. So they were usually the instigators. And they would bring out, Bobby would bring out his guitar and they'd just start and

Janice would jump in and sing and one of the chambers of others would get on like a, you know, start beating on a garbage pail or something. Wow. That was sort of the rhythm of the place. It wasn't every day. Never was organized. Was the general public aware of this? I mean, the way that celebrity hunting now.

Yeah, it was funny. It was pre-AIDS. Right. Lucky for y'all. Yeah, and there was a great rhythm. You'd like sit at the pool, and you'd see, like, this really pretty girl come in, and she'd be with, like, Pink Floyd in this room, and then you'd get to the pool the next morning, and she'd come out of the chambers of his room, and then you'd come down the next morning

and come out of someone else's room. They'd sort of work. Yeah, exactly. They'd sort of work. They were out of the place, and the GTOs live there. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. The girls together outrageously. No.

They were a bunch of groupies who did a recording, recorded an album for Frank Zappa's label, and they were fantastic. It was Miss Christi, Miss This One, Missed that one. And they sort of took care of all the girls and made sure they got fed and didn't, you know. I remember one of the great days at the pool because it was a different time.

It was a free love time. You know, it was really different. But I remember I was down at the pool with, with, I think, Lester Chambers and Bobby Nusser. Newark, maybe Rothschild, we get to the pool, and somebody spots up in the corner an entire line of ladies lingerie drying out. And we're like hound dogs getting so excited. The ice capades had checked in.

Oh my God. The combination of y'all laughs. Oh, my God. What's going on? I'm sorry. That was the high point of life at the Hollywood landmark. Wow. The ice campaigns were here. It was like, oh, my God. I mean, by that point, could you imagine entering mainstream society? Or was this just like, oh, I'm fine, just.

Yeah, I had no, you know, I had no consciousness of what it was. And they weren't really Mount Rushmore people at the time. I was, I had just come out of college. I remember. And I wasn't, I had very few female relationships. I was very, I was close to a virgin at this point in my life. A late bloomer. Yeah, it was a late bloomer.

And this beautiful blonde was at the pool when she came and she stayed with me in night and we made love. And I'm thinking I'm in love. And they go downstairs the next day and she's in Lester Chambers' room. Ah, damn. So, you know, one of the things I questioned, now, the way that you were describing managing Anne Murray because I was

you know five or six years old at the time you know I mean they weren't calling a yacht rock back then or a soft pop or whatever like it was just always on radio like I mean you needed me was like played like 42 billion times a day

like in every Lord however are you saying at one point point she was a hard sell because oh she was a very tough sell yeah so that was you that got her on the muppet show with alice and midnight special and all that stuff yeah she was a very she was a very tough cell but she was amazingly talented in her in her i don't know i mean i don't mean this in a negative way her narrow highway she had one of the greatest purest voices you ever heard yeah and she had very little recognition of what that meant or that part that it wasn't just the voice you had to be an

entertainer. So she was this pure vessel completely as far away from Alice as you could possibly get in terms of her attraction in her drawer. And how did she come to your attention? I was up in Canada doing a pop-fit show with John Lennon, the first time of plastic. Oh, the chicken show? Yeah, the chicken show. Oh, God. And she, I turned on the TV. There was a guy named Brian Ahern, who was a producer, and he said, you got to watch this TV show. I had this girl who teaches Jim in Canada, who's singing this song, Snowbird, and she's fantastic. You may want to work with her. And it was a summer show, and she was a gym teacher who got a job in the summer on this four-week show, and she sang Snowbird, and I heard the song, and I, whoa. And then it started to get some traction on

radio, and it got to number one. And when it got to number one, I knew the people at Capitol Records. And they and her called me. And I said, oh, I know all about you. I was up in Canada. It was great. And so was this truly a time period in which, I mean, I definitely know the 70s before MTV came to play. And I mean, now, you know, image overtakes talent.

Like, talent doesn't even count anymore, borderline. In every field. But, I mean. Are you saying that at one point, at least for a good 20-year period, talent could account for something in which... Well, I wouldn't go that far. But here was the difference between then and now, I think, is that radio was open to playing things.

Radio ruled the world. Hit records ruled everything. Entertainment, it was a very different world. It wasn't like a concert world where you have. to be a great performer. And if you get the record company to spend the money, you could have hit records. And that was my goal with her was to get hit records. And I got her in this.

I decided that I would try and put her next to the biggest stars in the world. Take that back to the record company and see if they would treat her like one of the biggest stars in the world. So it was a hard sell? A very hard sell. Hard sell to her and a hard sale to the record company. But once I got the picture with, I orchestrated an event where John Lennon, Mickey Dolan, who was gigantic, the monkeys were the biggest thing in the world then. Harry Nielsen, who was unbelievably respected by the industry. And Alice took a picture with her.

And that picture enabled me to sell just about anybody. That was like your sole query picture. That was a white soul quarries. That photo killed the soul quarry. We see what you did, Amir. You're out. No, I'm only playing. And I got her on hosting Midnight Special

because if John Lennon liked her, she had to be great. It just started a circle of stuff. Then, you know, in those days, it was much simpler. It was very different. There was nobody really knew who she was until she was fan. There was no internet. You couldn't see how bland she was.

Right. None of that stuff got revealed. It was really about getting somebody to pay enough money to get her records on radio. But I mean, by that point, a singer like Helen Reddy had sort of prominent. So, you know, she, there was a lane at least for... Oh, definitely a lane.

Yeah. I've been a lane from all the way back. The concept of... Wholesomeness and... Yeah, and not move. and non-entertainment, you know, non-entertainment singers. What were her live concerts like? I mean, were they...

I mean, for me, they were boring because they weren't entertaining, but for her audience, she had this beautiful voice. You know, there was... People would hold hands and wear suits and ties. Wow. By the time she had like five or six hits under her belt, and it was like, she established it.

And she turned out to be a very good performer. I mean, she played to her audience. She really developed and she got a style and a comfort level with the stage and with an audience. And I went to see her a few years after I stopped managing her and it was really entertaining. I saw it at Riviera. She got a little production in. Okay. So the one thing, plus and also talking your head off the few times I've met you,

I've come to discover. Now, of course, Superminch does touch on your history with Teddy Pendergrass. But then later, I found out that you damn near managed everyone important in black music. Which, I mean, Super Minch kind of treated like a small footnote. Like, oh, and by the way, Rick James and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. No, that list at the end of Superman, just I copied that list and wrote it all down. of everybody and it was like, whoa, okay, Rick James and Stephanie Mills and Lisa Fisher, which I'm sure Luther Mandrax was not happy about.

No, no, he was very supportive. He was. She was a background singer. Very supportive. So, okay, so the thing I didn't know that was before, before, okay, so Teddy went to solo one, 75, 76, you're saying that most black shows that occurred were strictly for radio stations and DJs. And not for pay and...

I mean, audience is paid. Artist didn't get paid. There was an organization called the Black Promoters Association. Yeah. I don't know if they still exist or not. No, they don't. But they were sort of the enforcers. And they had a collection of promoters who worked with the radio stations

and the record companies. And they kept everybody in line. And it was a, it was a, You know, it was a street business. It was a different. Teddy's last manager before me had been shot to death. That's right. It was a tough business.

And they were making a lot of money. And they didn't want to give it up. And that didn't scare you at all. You know, I never. It's funny. Because you were the eye man out. Or did they send you in the line of fire? And then it was like, oh, by the way, my last manager got shot.

So go get him, Seth. Yeah. Hey, Jew. Go get them. So you're saying, like, A cat like, let me pick a random 70s, like Mac Davis. Mac Davis could go out and do a kid, make some money, but Teddy went out strictly to ensure that his record could play on the radio.

He was convinced by the record company who profited greatly by the record sales and made nothing on the road, that the only way he was going to keep getting hit records and keep getting basically the rented car that they give him. Yeah, how would he make money? Yeah, how does he get people? If Gamble and Huff are writing the songs or Fat and White did. He lived a very simple life. He wasn't, there were no mansions in any of those guys' lives. You know, you talked to the OJs, you talked to all these guys in the beginning.

They were just working musicians. They were working musicians, yeah. Until when? Like, when do you think the checks? For me with Teddy, it was, um... It had to been 80. It was the second solo album. So life is the song worth singing.

Yeah, that's about when we start. That's when we, our history was that we, I understood, once I understood the Chilinich that we can't do this. So I booked them in Radio City Musical. And we got picketed it. And nobody wanted across the picket line, the Black Promoters Association, picketed us. So was like Al Heyman and those guys a part of it? Or was Al Heyman more like the 80s and 90s? No, he was put apart of it, but he was much more new, he was the second wave.

He was. Okay. The first wave was, good. guys. I actually got friendly with most of the guys with Jesse Bozeman's, who I love. One of those names. Great guy. I mean, it's still a lot of respect from, but that was their business, and they were able to get away with it. And that's what they did. And so I said, I'm going to have no, we're not doing this. And I booked Teddy into Radio City. And nobody wanted to cross the picket line. I mean, it got, it was pretty deep. Jesse Jackson came and

picketed. Oh, wow. It was, it was deep. So I knew I had to do business with him. Somehow, some way we had to do business. And we ended up making an arrangement with him. And if Teddy played a institutional building, like Radio City, where the promoter owned the building, they would allow us to do it as long as we paid him a fee.

So it's like the mafia. Yeah, but every business. I mean, you know, try and buy laundry in New York and in your restaurant. And, you know, it's still the same. Life works the same way. You're paying tribute to somebody. Yeah, yeah.

It always works that way. Across the bridge. So that was the way we sort of got out. And then what we did was we just played those kind of places. And finally they came back to us and said, okay, we'll let you. My beef was money, but it was also promotion. They didn't do anything. And I wanted the shows promoted.

So we finally made an arrangement that we could take a white promoter who was been in the business, pair them with someone from the black promoters association, give them their 50% of the date, but don't come, don't do anything. Right, right. Just leave us alone. So all those shows that, are you saying that that was the modus operandi for the average black show? And then, well, what happened is then other people's earthwinded fire came on that highway. A lot of acts started to follow that highway, and everything started to sort of,

to disintegrate a little bit. And it opened up. By the time I got to Rick James, I didn't have to deal with it at all. So with the exception of like James Brown, you're saying everyone had to go through that funnel system. I'm sure James Brown probably went through it. Well, I know that he was kind of handling his own business or whatnot, but that's, that's crazy. That's what it was. It was a chilling circuit.

It's just the way it was. Wow. I went to, I went to elementary school in Philadelphia. at 313 Broad Street, which is right next door to Philly International. And that great bar across the street, was the name of that bar?

There was a great bar in the corner and everybody hung out of it. The former Philadelphia International. Yeah, now it's an SLS Hotel. Oh, is that what it is then? Yeah, they're about to build an SLS. But I could time it perfectly. And I could tell that he might have been on CP time

every time because I could always, I knew when Teddy Pin the Grass was outside. It was always like 1222, like during lunch break. So between like third and sixth grade, like clockwork, I could catch Teddy Pin the Grass right outside, right outside of Philly Underground. Like I've never seen kind of this hard day's night fan mobbing situation. Wow. And he had a, well, I assume it was a rose voice or whatever. Yeah, it was a white rose Royce.

Yeah. With the license played Teddy. But rent it, right? But rent it? No, is that what I think they bought. Okay. Yeah, and I just, like, that made an impression on me. Not like, man, one day I want.

You want to be a pill. People. So, I mean, but what, I know you can't get super personal of it. But, I mean, the heednistic idea of what a rock star was, I know that was that for Teddy Pendergrass. Which, I mean, how, not bad did it get, how deep did it get?

Extreme. Because now I'm at it. But it's all the matter of levels. Teddy was probably making more money than he ever thought he'd ever. ever make in his whole life just by the drippings from the side. You know, he was selling millions of records. That's a lot of money. So if a couple of hundred thousand maybe went off to him where a white artist may have

gotten a million, if he's getting a couple of hundred thousand, that's big money. Because all you know is what you know. And, you know, so he was, when I got involved, he was happy. He had no problem with going and doing the dates and not getting paid. It was my problem, not his problem. He accepted it as that was the way of life, and he was getting enough drippings to come in that he felt like he was on top of the world.

So how are you able to orchestrate the women-only concerts? Like, were there guards there to stop? No, no. I realized when I thought of it that I could get sued if I didn't let guys in. And everybody told me I couldn't do it because they said, hey, if they want to buy a ticket, I don't care.

if they buy a ticket and come in. I just want the 25 million people who aren't attending the concert to see for women only. I couldn't care if there's a guy in the place. No, because even, I think it made HBO and it was like, I think it was only cuts of women, so I only thought.

That's all they were. It did? It did make HBO? No men came. No men came at all. I mean, they could have a time. They were outside. We had a lot.

of pimps outside waiting for their ladies to come waiting for the let out waiting for the let out i have reason to believe that teddy rocked a few marriages in my family's uh my extended family the best part of those shows is we gave out everybody chocolate teddy bear lollipops so he'd go it to like close the door and you'd see in the out in the audience of girls like licking the lollipop and biting its head off and teddy like and the panties and the panties yeah the panties yeah the panties A lot of patties on stage. Did it ever bother him in the least, or was he just enjoying it? He enjoyed it, yeah, yeah.

Teddy was, I had such a great time working with Teddy. You know, Alice for me is like an orbit after Alice Teddy. Teddy was, I was, he's my favorite music. That's what I listen to at home. That's the only thing I play in my house for the last 15 years is Teddy. And he just loved. being that character. I loved, it was, I used to have these great conversations with him. I would show up and he'd say, oh shit, is it time? And I'd say, yeah, we called it to don't be a schmuck

conversations. And I sort of shut the door and I go, man, you're being a schmuck. Have I a schmuck again? And I get it off my chest and we deal with it. It was great. You could talk, you know, with some artists, you have to tiptoe around the issue. You have to feel. You have to feel figure out a way to get to where you want to go. But with him, you didn't have the tip, though, I could just tell him, you know, as as unfancy as I could what I felt. So what would be like an issue with him? What would be an issue?

Well, actually, for women only came out of it. Okay. And that's how the concert happened. He played, I got really pissed when I went and did the first Chitlin Circuit show with him. Really pissed me off. It's like, you can't let this happen. That's when he told me his manager got killed.

And I said, you know, I don't give a show. shit, I don't have kids. I don't care. Let him kill me. But I'm not going to be part of this thing. And he said, what do we do? I said, I'm going to book you in the widest place I can find. And fuck them.

Excuse me. No, no, no. Keep it on it. And we're going. So I booked them in the Roxy in L.A., which is a very white, red, small club. I don't think a black artist had ever played it at that point. We got a lot of death threats.

We got We ended up getting FBI security there For what? The Black Promoters Association Oh, okay I thought husbands So you know So I'm like risking my life

To do this The Roxy You're not going to make any money in the Roxy It's 200 seats And I had only done one show with him Right And we get to the Roxy

and he does the whole show sitting on a stool. All the women wanted to do was like grab him and fucking brains out. And he's sitting on a stool being this really cool. Frankson, not cruel. Yeah, really cool guy, like, you know. And I was getting furious, like furious. Like, I can't believe you're not giving it up. The energy in this room is so strong at you.

And you're just, you're not reacting to you. You're not engaging it. You're not giving it back to him. You're not doing it. So I go upstairs, and this is only my second show with him. He's got these two security guys, one real big, one real small. They really don't know me. And they tell me I've got to wait.

Teddy's getting, you know, changing, which really pisses me off to begin with because I'm used to immediate access. Right. And then this parade of women starts coming in. And, you know, a woman comes in, and I'm out there. It's 15 minutes later. The next one comes in. Now it's 2 o'clock in the morning.

I've risked my life I hate the show and I'm sitting here at 2 o'clock in the morning and finally I get in you motherfucker who the fuck do you think you are you know I've risk my life

for you to sit on a fucking stool and like be cool and then you make me wait till 2 o'clock in the morning go fuck yourself and he said hey man what do you expect for me I tell you what I'd expect for me get those women crazy. And let me be the only guy in the room when you're doing it.

And I will have the greatest time ever. And then I said, wait a second. Let's do shows for women only. Wow. I do know that. And that came out of that moment of Don't Be a Schmuck conversation. And he said, can we do that? And I said, yeah, I'm sure we can do anything we want to do.

Let's go do it. Well, I think before this point, there used to always be two sets of shows. Because even Sam Cook had the show that he did at the Copa, which was the dinner show. Yeah, then the Apollo show. And then at midnight do the, you know, Rebel Rousing show. And James Brown, Motown, like, I think maybe because perhaps Howard Melvin, Blue Noot sort of had to have dual shows as well.

Like, you play certain places where it's like suit and tie and, you know, because I saw one of their concert tapes where, I mean, they were doing like Broadway, Danny Rose and stuff like. Let us entertain you, like songs from Pippin. Yeah. Just what you wanted. No, they were doing like magic tricks and, and wow. I was like, really?

I never knew how I'm going to be able to blue notes and all this stuff. You've seen the shock. Now get ready for the job. Yeah, but I mean, just pretty much, even James Brown, like start time was like the hits. Right. But then he'd do some Sinatra stuff. He'd do that's life and, you know, like, I can be serious. play the Copa. So maybe that was the mentality.

I think he was just trying to be cool. So were the audience, were the, were the demographics different as well? Like, did he ever get? No, it was all, it was it. He started at the end to get some white audience. Once he got, once, um, they, the press finally started calling him the black Elvis.

And that sort of attracted a lot of white women. Um, once they said black Elvis. But up till, but never really was gigantic. But it was, it was, it was, every woman in town. I mean, it was fantastic. And they had the greatest time. I mean, it really, it paid off.

He was an entertainer who paid off. They went home, exhausted. Let me ask you a personal question, because in the documentary, some of your friends admit that you love the ladies. I do. So how does the police police himself? Because if you were, you know,

with these guys like Teddy and women were everywhere, was there a moment when you had to go, maybe just three tonight or just two? No. Okay. Three, you mean 30. I was just. I was, I've always been very direct.

I try to always be honest. And in those days, I was overworking. You know, I was, that was all I had was my work, to all I cared about. So there wasn't really time for relationships. So, but I loved women. and I love sex. Did you have any, did you have some game now? No, not great game.

Not great game, but great access. Because I was in the midst of all the stars, always. I was standing next to the people they wanted to be next to. Everybody wanted to be with the lead singer of a band. And so I said to myself, how could I, I don't have the time to romance someone. You know, it's like, it's 11.30, I got to get up at six. I'm in a hotel room.

I don't have time to like, I love you, I love you. And it's not honest. Actually, everybody else on the road is like telling these girls that they know they're never going to see again how much they love them just to get them into the bed. And that's dishonest. Yeah. And I said, I can't do that. So I said, what do I do? I said, well, what's my strength?

My strength is that I can get these women a backstage pass to meet the lead singer. So I made up a T-shirt that said no head. No backstage pass. It was honest. You want it great. You don't want it great. No problem at all. It was head-based, which that was what stopped you from having so many thought, well, I would say thought babies.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Oh, that was very smart. It eliminated the downside. Yes. And so many ways. Fulfill the upside. Was sort of honest.

Right to the point. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong.

Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Shep, I got to, I got to ask. Because I remember, again, as a Philadelphia, I remember it so well. But, Can you take us through the, like, I believe, like March of 82 when you got that phone call? Like, what? Yeah, I got a phone call that Teddy had his accident.

Do you still remember it? Oh, and like it was yesterday. I remember. I don't remember getting to Philly. I remember the elevated door in the hospital opening. And Sedonia Walker was there who ran Teddy's office. And Karen, who was. I don't know if she was his wife at that point.

She had been a singer in the show. Right. She was there. Teddy's mom who's still alive and just an amazing woman. I mean, like, they should build a statue to her. She is a remarkable woman. And the doctor, because they had called him down. And doors opened and they said, the doctor said, Mr. Gordon,

to glad you're here. Teddy is never going to walk again. We're not sure if he's going to live again or not. It's really important in his recovery for us to tell him rapidly that he's not going to walk again. We found that that's really part of the way if he's going to come through this thing, he's got to know it now. Why was that? I have no idea. And everybody.

They just wanted you to put it in this like instantly, bam. And they said. So it's just to kill all hope. So you know it's reality and you know where you're going. When I kill his spirit though? You know, he's strapped to a table. that they flip every 10 minutes. Yeah, I saw that device.

And all he could do is blink. That was the only, you know, like, can you hear me, Teddy? Blink once, yes, twice, no. And he'd blink, and then they'd flip him every 10 minutes. And they said, and everybody felt that you should be part of the team to tell him. And within 60 seconds, I'm in his room telling him the guy that he's never going to walk again. It was a guy I love, I mean, love Teddy. I can't.

Still love him. Amazing. Just an amazing guy. He gave me the trust. Not easy. Really not easy. So that was a pretty traumatic moment. He had some children.

I didn't know how many because Teddy was, he didn't wear the same t-shirt I did. and he spent everything he had. No matter how much he made, he spent it. So I knew there was no money to take care of everybody. So I decided I had to attach myself emotionally from this. The doctors would take care of him. I would figure out how to take care of his family.

So there was a beer company that had been sponsoring us, who will go unnamed. and I called them up and I explained what happened and told them about the kids and they agreed to put some money into a trust fund, sizable trust fund and get the goodwill for the beer company and help Teddy's family.

And I thought, okay, got it done with like I think a million dollars or two million dollars. Go to sleep, wake up in the morning, get the newspaper, the girl in the car with Teddy was a guy. front page story so I knew I would never hear from the beer company ever again which I never did

so they revealed that in the daily news front page yeah I remember I mean I was really young the reason why I can remember my mother she was I mean she loved yeah and that was one of the first times like with the celebrity I remember seeing my mother cry

like I remember her when the news broke and I mean I was like three four years old and she was just crying his connection to his audience I've never seen a connection like he had to his audience to these women. They really felt that... Well, he was one of the few people...

Each one felt personally like he was their lover, their son, their husband. It was really remarkable relationship. Well, it was rare. I mean, he was such a masculine figure. I mean, not saying that, you know... Handsomest man I ever saw him. Biggest presence I've ever seen.

I mean, he walked in a room and was like, wow. not for nothing, I memorized this album when I was a little girl, and that was the only album that I knew, and I used to sing and perform it in front of my family and friends. So you're right about that, all ages. So I wake up in that story is in the newspaper. So as a manager, what do you do then? So what I did then,

I called Mrs. Pendergrass, Ida, and I said, I think we have a problem. I don't think the beer company is going to do what I said they were going to do. Can I come out to the house and go through all the tapes and see if I can find maybe there's some songs that Teddy's done that haven't been released and I can get someone to pay to put him out? And I found an album's worth of material. And the rest of the story is almost too ugly to tell, but we got him some money. He was recording for a record company. I went to the record company

distributed their record company. CBS, correct? CBS. And they were done? CBS agreed to give me a million dollars for Teddy for the tapes. But they said they couldn't pay it to us directly. Teddy was signed to PIR.

They had to give it to PIR. So I took Teddy's mom and the two kids that I knew of to Gamble and Huff's office. I remember sitting in the chair. King's. It was always dramatic to sit there because they sat in two thrones. And behind them were all the black militants. All of them talked about killing people like me.

You didn't have a good, cozy relationship with Camino. Yeah, it wasn't the warmest place to be. And told them what I had done. They got very mad that I went to CBS behind their back. But they did finally agree that they would get the check and give it to Teddy. And they did get the check and they gave part of it to Teddy. So that saved us for a while. And then I had it.

In the contract, there was a soundtrack clause that he could do one album, not on PIR, if it was a soundtrack of a movie. Sue for One? Yeah. So I went to, I went to, did you work on Super One? No, I just know that. Yeah. I've never seen a movie, but I have that record. No, I worked on that.

That was a Marvin Worth movie. I never knew the movie ever came out. I just knew the album. So I made this movie. I started a film company, made a movie called Choose Me. And Teddy got the sound, got an advance from a lecture for the soundtrack. And that's sort of what put him on. Straighten it out, took care of the kids, took care of the mom.

So by the time you guys on the lecture, when he did like the Joy album, that were things like good financials? Because Electra stepped up to the line and gave him. There was a fellow named Bob Krasnow. And he had just taken over Electra. And I had promised Teddy that if he did something legally, that I could get him a million dollars. Gotcha.

And he did it. Wow. And the guy reneged on the million dollars. Damn. At CVS, Walter. This is after the second. This is the second part of the incident. Okay.

And I didn't know what to do. You know, Teddy's lying there still. I promised him a million dollars. I got him to go against some of what he considered his best friends. And I wasn't bringing back a million dollars, and I didn't have a million dollars, or I would have given it to him. And I went to Bob Krasnows' office, and I told him the story. And he said to me, is Teddy going to live? And I said, I don't know.

And he said, well, I can't just do me a thing. favor. If he dies, I need to have a tape in my file of him doing something and I need a script of a movie. You don't have to make the movie. Don't that be him, but I got to have my ass covered. So, like the life rights and... So I went to Luther and I told him and I said, can you make yourself sound like Teddy and get me a tape and he wrote Choose Me, Luther. He wrote the song. And he did like 20 generations removed and noise. in the background, but we had a tape of shoes me that sort of sounded like Teddy.

And I went to a filmmaker I had worked with a guy named Alan Rudolph. And I said, would you write a script for me? We're never going to make the movie. But I told him the story. And he wrote the script, so we got the money. And I thought everything was pretty good. Teddy was rocked. And then Alan Rudolph called me up about a year later.

It said, now I need a favor. And I said, what's that? And he said, I want to make the movie. Wow. So I went sold by soul to Chris Blackwell, who would always... Island Pictures. Who had always wanted to me to start a film company for him, partner with me.

I had won the Con Film Festival. I was doing pretty good. But I knew that he had a bad reputation. A lot of people who had been with him had been burned. Right. But I said, listen, I know you're sort of devilish, but I will sell my soul to you. You told this. You told him this?

I'm always honest. Against my greater. And he said, I know people talk about it. I said, but I need a million dollars to make this movie. I know you have a record company, but you can't get the soundtrack, but I'll make it up to you somehow. And I'll partner with him. We'll do great. And I started Island Live Films.

And Chews Me was the first movie. Electric got the soundtrack with Teddy. And wow. Here we are. So, chef, I'm noticing that,

like, you're rolling alone in this situation. Yeah. But I know the business was dangerous in the 70s, I mean,

the 60s, 70s and 80s, because it was mop run. Oh, yeah. I mean, how did you get out unscathed? I don't know if I'm unscathed. What is your most...

Make it out alive, right? I would say my scariest... What was your most... You're scathing... I would say my scariest moment. And I'll leave the names of the people out. But my only real brush... The Black Promoters Association

never really came after me hard. Okay. It was never a moment where I said, I'm not going to live anymore. I had one second of that. One guy put a gun to my head, but I knew he wasn't going to use it. I just knew he was too high profile.

He wasn't going to shoot me. So I wasn't even scared. It was just like. So he played it cool. Yeah. But then I was, this is years later, I was in my apartment in New York.

It was when Teddy had his accident. I moved to New York for two years. And I went down to Philly every week to see him. Right. And I had taken Bob Ezrin, who produced Alice's, his apartment in New York. He let me use for two years.

And there was a little phone on the side of the bed, a red phone that never rang. I didn't know the number. I have no idea what he used it for, don't want to know. And one day it rang. and hello Shep Gordon

Yeah Meet me at the corner of This really heavy voice You need to meet me at the corner I'm okay Hang up the phone I don't go Calls the next day really heavy Like heavy enough

That I hired two X cops To be with me 24 hours a day You know How did you get this number A How did you know I was answering He knew where my office was and he had that voice. He was, this was serious Italian kind of, you know, soprano's voice. Right. And the next day I get a phone call from a guy that I had met a few

times who everyone had told me was connected, mafia connected. And he calls me up, I guess I could say his name because I think he's dead, Tommy Vistola, who ended up going to jail for life for beating up a record company guy. And he says, Hey, Shep, how you doing? Great, Tommy. How'd you get my number? He said, oh, we got friends. We got friends.

And he called on the same phone. Right, right, right. And he says, you know how lucky you are? And I said, what do you mean, Tommy? He says, so I'm having breakfast this morning with the guys. And one of the guys says, I got to leave early. And I says to a boy, do you got to leave early? I got to go bump this guy off, Chef Gordon up then.

Wow. Wow. Wow. And you say, you can't bump the guy off. He's with me. And I'm like, now I'm thinking to myself, which is worse, getting bumped off or being with him.

You know, like? Under somebody's way. Yeah, exactly. He's with me. You can't do that. And he says, well, the other guy's there too so I can tell the story.

So you tell you what, kid, meet me at Moishe's office this afternoon at two. Moishe was Morris Levy. Ah. Hit him in time. So I go up to Morris Levy's office who I never met before

with Tommy. He tells us a story. and Morris says you're a lucky kid to have Tommy on your side you know that I said yeah he said but you know you should do something for him the flim thing what should I do for me said you know that new blondie record that's coming out um I own these store strawberries um get me 50,000 clean copies clean meant that they weren't punched as free goods right right so they could sell them wow and I said um Morris I don't I'm not the record company I really but we settled at 10,000 copies, which I bought from the record company,

it cost, and gave him, and it was like, you bought your life. And luckily a few months later, Tommy Vistola got caught on camera in Philadelphia, beating up a record store guy who hadn't paid his bill to Moish with a baseball bat

and went to jail for the rest of his life. Still in jail? I think he died in jail. He may be around a few years. He'll probably come after me, but. Is that when you became a Buddhist? Yes.

So. But that was my only real, you know, there's so much talk, you see vials, you see all this stuff. Right. It never really was. You know, there were thugs, but it wasn't disorganized, you know. That was my only brush in 40 years of doing it of, like, real organized crime stuff. So did you, did you have personal relationships with all of your clients?

No. No. I mean, at some point, you had like 40 at the same time, correct? No, I... So what about, like, Rick James? Rick James, I had a very personal relationship with. I would say Rick, Teddy, Alice, Raquel, to some extent.

Those were really my closest. There was some that I had no... And some of the African artists, Johnny Clegg. Right. King Sunny a day was the most elegant human being I've ever been around in my life. Magic Fasheek was just a joy But there were many I didn't Luther

I did not have a close relationship with At all. But you were with him at all times though I was with him 20 years So we lived 10 blocks from each other He never was at my house Wow really Yeah

I mean did you have a liaison like surely Someone had to be in at circle today I had a liaison for every act Okay I used to tell acts I'd say you know The biggest waste of my time Is talking to you on the phone about you need four Coca-Cola's.

You know, then I'm not doing my job. So I charge 20%. If you don't need me to be in your face all the time, I will get someone that you can beat up whenever you want to beat them up. And I'll only charge you 15%. And everybody went for 15%. I never had anybody say, no, I want you for 20. But it was true.

My job is getting ahead of the artist, but a year or two and telling them where to go. And if I'm spending my time talking about like I didn't have it the right light in my dressing room last night, you know I like pink lights. They had a blue light. Could you believe they had a blue light? Well, I can imagine that especially after the massive success of street songs and the dawning of MTV that Rick James,

really wanted to be ushered into, you know, the 80s, the same way that Michael and Prince got their due. So, I mean, what was that whole scenario like? I mean, was there pressure on you, like, to get me on MTV? No, not from Rick. But we were doing so good that he didn't need to. It was a great career. I mean, he complained about it a lot, though, you know.

On MTV? Never to me. I never really got it from. But he may have to the guy who worked for me. He may have. But he was, we were headlined those Budweiser festivals. Right. It was good times, boy.

He was a great guy. I really loved very smart, man. Yeah, my Rick James story was at the House of Blues. Me, Common and Rosario Dawson went to go see Rick and, or it was really the Tina Marie show. Okay. But Rick just happened to be there. And they got out in Defyre and Desire and everything.

It was like 1999. Okay. Anyway, so we're up backstage and Rick comes in with Leon Isaac Kennedy. Wow. Holy shit. So the thing is. Who was married to like a beautiful girl. Yeah, Jane Kennedy.

Jane Kennedy. Have you ever seen that sex thing? Yeah. Well, all right. Here we go. This is what I'm leading to. This is what I'm leading to. Now, Rick saw me, Rick saw me walking with Rosario, right?

Okay. But after a while, like me and Tina started talking a lot about like I'm I'm geeking out or whatever And so at some point Rick comes up to me and I was like He gives me this firm handshake and I was like yo man like I can't even believe you like know who I am He's like of course I knew you are motherfucker you want a month you were the one of funkiest motherfuckers Walking on earth right now And he said but I should tell you something now at this point he points on my peripheral And Leon is over there rapping to Rosario.

Now, I mean, we're cool. Like, she wasn't on date or anything. Yeah, yeah. But Rick don't know that. He says, he points to Leon. He says, you know that motherfucker over there? I said, that's, that's Leon, Isaac Kennedy, right? He's like, yeah.

He's like, is that your lady? And, you know, I was like, well, you know, we're cool. But, you know, he said, if you know what that motherfucker's hands had, man, I go get your lady right now. Meep meep, Nice to meet you guys, goodbye. I want to go. 2%. That is the number of people

who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers,

researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-P-Cent on the I-Rashire.

My Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I bumped into Dave Chappelle recently, and I told him we were interviewing you, and I reminded him that you have managed Rick James. And I was there the day that we actually shot Rick's portion of the interview. And he was actually, I think the first or the second person that we showed the final sketch to. And, you know... He loved it.

Yeah, he loved it. We got no complaints from him. Rick was... The way I started with Rick, I was in my office one day. And this... My door gets thrown open. Just thrown open. Just thrown open.

Like, worked his way right through the receptionist just came to the thing. He goes, you motherfucker? You Shep Gordon, motherfucker? I know more about you than you know about you. Really? And I said, who are you? And he said, motherfucker.

I'm Rick James. I'm from... Buffalo, New York. You went to school in Buffalo, New York. You lived on Main Street. You ate it. He, like, had it down. I said, hold, what do you do?

He said, what do I do? I'm the fucking baddest motherfucker you ever came across in your fucking life. What do you mean? Why do I do? Wow. And he had a hit record on Motown. So you and I had already been out? Yeah, you and I was out.

He had just, was just about to sign the Mary Jane Girls. to Barry. Okay. And he said, motherfucker, I got these girls that are going to be even fucking bigger

than me, and you're going to do their deal. I'm throwing you in the pit with Barry. And that was my first meeting. I went to the penthouse on sunset,

and Barry was playing pool. Really? Yeah. And Rick said, this is the motherfucker who's going to squeeze you for more money you ever giving anybody.

So what was that like with Barry? You were talking earlier. What was he like? as opposed my gambling huff or whatever. I never really got to know him. Okay. He was very, he dismissed me, right? I mean, he really dismissed me.

I was out of that. He is very dismissive. Oh, yeah, he dismissed me in a sec. But we held out, and he came around, and we made the deal, and he paid him. He was, Barry was, my impression, and I didn't know him well, and I can't say this with 100% certainty. but he would fuck you to your faiths, not to your back. He cut a really hard deal. You got to respect that.

And you got to respect it. And he delivered the goods. He got you to hit records. He did the stuff he had to do. But it was all about very, and he wasn't sharing. And he was vocal about it. I can deal with anybody if they're honest. They tell you what the game is.

You want to get felt in, you know, you have a choice. Did he at least respect that Rick, Rick Celebrity and, his status at the time was going to carry Motown to the 80s. I don't know. With the exception of Lionel and Stevie, yeah, nah, that was it. Yeah, I don't know. I really don't know. Rick ended up dealing more with him than I did.

Really? Yeah, Rick had a good relationship with him. I was the white kid on the block who was trying to steal from him. And so I let Rick, I would wind Rick up and send him in rather than go in myself. I say, you know, here's what we got to get. here's what I need. And the Mary Jane Girls had a hit. The first record was a hit.

Yeah, both of those records. Yeah. So they were real happy with them. So you orchestrated both those albums? I wouldn't say I orchestrated. I made the deal. I made the deal for him to allow him to hit, but I didn't have any real influence on it.

Rick was very much in control of his career. He was very strong. One of the smartest artists I've ever worked with. So with the exception of maybe Freddie Demand, If I'm... Who, by the way, I think is maybe the best manager of my, in my lifetime. Really? Yeah.

Well, with the exception of Freddie Demand, I don't know where... The Fred Demand was, he was. Well, he managed the Jackson's... And then he did Michael's launch, a solo launch. Madonna. Yeah, he had Madonna as well. From Jump Street, right from Jump Street. And brought back Lionel Richie.

Oh, wow. And he would only do one or two acts at a time. That's all he needed. That's all he needed. But he did the job. I mean, he really, I, my respect love for him is unbelievable. I mean, I always, when people ask me, I always say, Freddie the man was the guy.

Well, I was going to say between Jerry Goldsmith and Freddie Demand. Well, okay, let me leave Jerry Goldsmith out. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got to try and stop laughing. I'm sorry. Well, no, I mean.

Okay, so who was Jerry Goldsmith? He had war, sly. The Adamalls. Eric Bird. But I'm just saying that A lot of lawsuits. Ah, okay. That's the laugh.

However, I'm saying that if I am a black act that's looking to cross over and crossover was definitely on the minds of a lot of black acts in the 70s, how to break out of the Chitlin circuit and really want to generate money for myself, but like,

stang power I mean are you the are you the golden child that will is it either you or Freddie that's the golden child

that will take you there or yeah I think there and is it based on the relationships you have with radio stations and I think yeah in a way of thinking I think there were a couple of the guys I'm trying to think of the guys

who did earthwind and fire Caballo Ruffalo Ruffalo they were they had found the highway to go down to the way they could do stuff like that. There were a few people. But, you know, also radio was hungry for it.

They were really hungry for it. It wasn't a hard sell. Was radio hungry for music? Like now radio's hungry for you to buy the product that they're advertising. So it's not music-centric more than it is getting, you know, you to hear the commercials and getting kids to hear their parents to hear the commercials

to buy the product. Like music is almost an afterthought for radio, which is why we get the same 15 songs in rotation. But are you saying that there's a point where radio was truly interested in... I wouldn't say truly interested because I don't know if they're capable of that. FM was, but pop AM radio.

But they found that those records worked on their stations. Okay. So, you know, the game was always by, buying your way on, but you couldn't just buy your way on. You had a... See, I always thought you could buy your way on. Oh, no. I'll tell you a great...

A Philly story. Really funny. Everything's happening in Philly. Baseball bats, and... So I'm a young punk. Alice has a hit record. Comes time for the second record, and the record company's not going to do anything.

They just not going to... They just told you this? No, but you can tell. You know by the signs they're not taking any ads out. There's no independence. for the single. It's just you know the telltale signs. So I'm not going to let them stop me.

I'm just going to buy my way on. I had some cash. So the most powerful guy at the time in radio was out of Philadelphia, Freddie DeSipio. He was probably the most effective guy. You could pay him and you got a hit record. So I went to Freddie. And he had never heard of me.

I got introduced, I think, by maybe Albert Gross. or somebody on a phone call. There were no emails or anything like that. And I told them the story and it's Allison. How much is it? In those days, they used to charge by parallel one, parallel two, parallel three. Parallel one was a big station. So maybe that was a $10,000 buy. Parallor two was a smallest station, maybe a $5,000 buy. So I wanted the parallel one station. I paid him $10,000. And first week, we're 27. It's like, oh, my God. this is the greatest. We're getting around the record company.

Right. And the second week, we're 25. It's moving up the charts. This is fantastic. Third week, it drops off the chart. 25 in the record business. Once you lose your momentum, no other station in the country is going to pick you up.

So the record was over. Maybe a year later, I found out what the game was. The station only played 20 songs. But he sold 30 slots. Wow. So, of course, there were no sales. The record never got played. Oh.

So I paid $10,000 to kill the record. Just to be in the bottom 10? To kill it. I killed it. Oh, shit. Well, lesson learned. Yeah. Good lesson learned.

Oh, man. Lesson learned. There's always a curtain behind the curtain. So, and then I'm, I'm now, now I'm putting two, two together, the fact that you managing Stephanie Mills explains her presence on the Teddy records. Yeah. You managing the Callaway brothers and Midnight Star explains their presence on, I want to be rich. I want to, what a great talk. I love that. I want to be rich. Was that your concept?

Yeah, yeah, completely. It was full of love, peace, and happiness. Oh, man. That was my mom's anthem that year. I mean, not completely, but the thought was there. You know, it was like, come on, let's just say it. Wow. And it happened.

I got it. I mean, I have so many, my experience with Luther Vandros. I mean, as a person who was immersed in hip-hop, whatever. I mean, Luther Vandros was the definition of smooth R&B. Yeah. Kind of the complete opposite of what hip hop represented, but I mean, I still respected it. But Luther's live show was, like, my mom would physically describe every moment. And this is from Lisa Fisher, all to Foncy Thornton to all these things.

Fonzie. love Fonzie. So what is, I mean, of Luther at his, at his peak, at the peak of his powers, which, I mean, I guess you could say it in the night. Is it the night I fell lover?

Is it give me the reason? I mean, they were all so powerful. Yeah, give me the reason. I mean, God, that was. So, yeah. I mean, what? Night I found of love was probably my personal, I mean, I, yeah, yeah, it's my,

yeah, my personal favorite, too. So, but I also. know that he was notorious for being very meticulous and like harder than James Brown. Yeah. Like fines and no, no spot nor wrinkle. Where does that come from? Like that level of discipline that I've never heard of. Yeah, I've never seen anything like it.

You know, I, my reputation, most, many of the artists hired me because I wrote and directed the stage shows. And that was my joy. Oh, really? That I didn't know. I did the Earth Wind and Fire Pyramid show. I did the first kiss show. I loved doing shows and doing productions.

And I knew how to get standing ovations. And that was a lot of my value to most of my artists. Luther would not let me come to see him until he had broken the show in. So I would never allow it to come to the first four, five, six shows because he wanted it to be perfect. I'd say to him, you know, my job is to help you make it perfect. and he was in complete control of every second on that stage, every single light, every wardrobe change, and did it as good as you could possibly do it,

fanatic about it, and drove a very hardship. If someone was the second late, they were toast. If they were off on a queue somewhere, if a lighting queue went down, that guy was toast that night. He was just, you know, brought into the dressing room and dressed down. He needed everything absolutely perfect. And he was perfect every night so he could demand that he hit his marks every night. He was everything was, you can almost overlay one show to the other with Luther. You could time it with the clock. Yeah. Wow. One question I always had in

regards to Luther and, you know, it was a lot of talk about what I know what was going. Yeah. I was sexuality. I mean, you know, as a kid of the 80s, you know, my mother, I mean, that was the soundtrack to my childhood. And no one cared, you know what I'm saying? Nobody cared at all. Yeah, like no one cared at all. We just wanted to hear him seeing. As a manager, was that something that presented a challenge for you?

Or was it, how did you handle that? Didn't present a challenge at all. The only part of it that presented a challenge to me wasn't professional, was personal. I never felt that he was joyful. and I felt that a lot of that lack of joy was that he didn't have any relationships in his life that I know of there was no male relationship there was no female relationship

there were no relationships and that for me was the hard part because I wanted to be happy and enjoy his success even with you like was there a guard between you guys yes completely yeah strictly business strictly business don't even didn't really know who he was You never had one can of conversation or it?

Never had a real conversation. How did he seek you out to man? Or how did you end up managing here? He, the record company called me up and he called me up. We had a mutual business manager. And he loved the work I did and we took a meeting and we joined up. And I had a guy in my office who took care of him. and we never we had no real relationship at all we we actually he's the only artist that um

I worked with and had no communication with it a point in time came when he wouldn't talk to me and it was about the last three years of our relationship that I managed him and I would send them notes and say listen you don't have to stay with me and he said no no you're the right guy I just um don't want to talk yeah you know he was a he he he was a he he was a he a different kind of a guy, Luther. I tend to, well, in light of the unfortunate events that have happened in 2016, I'm seeing a common denominator with one particular icon that, for this episode, remain nameless, who's notoriously very secretive and very guarded.

and I guess in light of his demise the things that we found out about his life and what caused his exit you know that's a secret now I get why everything was so secretive when you're hiding something so maybe I'm just thinking that he wasn't ready to be vulnerable in front of possible

but even with who you're mentioning I feel like we knew more about his past with Luther I don't feel like we know a lot about who Luther was. I don't think he really knew who he was. Wow. You know, I think he lived for his career. He lived for that moment on stage.

That's when he knew what to do. And I think, you know, you can see the issues with the weight going up and down and how it translates and, you know, you just see certain things. But he was a great artist and I'm honored that I worked with him. There's one thing that a lot of the public doesn't know. you're responsible for, or I guess by accident, you're responsible for Deborah Harry and Christine meeting fat by Freddie.

Well, yeah, I was sort of part of the team. I wouldn't say responsible, but part of it. We were searching for a new single. What do we do for a new single? And they were very culturally significant. They were a real product of the times. So we were looking for something to hang our hat on that was more significant than just the song. And we had heard about this thing that was going on up in Harlem,

cardboard boxes on the floor, beat boxes, guys dancing. And we said, let's go take a look. Let's see what this is all about. We got a guy to take us up. We went up by train. And when we, this, it... Just that casual? It was that casual.

There's no concern like... It was Chris. Debbie, myself on a train. Subway. They liked the subway. They were a subway kind of people. And we got off the station, and there was a guy spray painting the wall. Right.

And it was really early in the game, and it was really cool. And Debbie said, wow, is that cool? So we started to walk over to him, to talk to him. And he started to not run, but move away from us really fast. And he got on the next train when it came. So we jumped on the trade.

And now we're all trapped on the train. it was Fab Five Freddy. Wow. And he then, you know, we said, when I coughs, when I bust in you, it's, it's all good.

And he took us back to see the dancing. And then he sort of, he was your tour guide. He was the tour guy. And then he sort of, you know, if you remember the video, he's in the background,

the whole time painting. You know, Fab Five Freddy would do, dude, dude. Yeah. That's, yeah, that to me, I mean,

it was a landmark moment. It was Eric, Eric Thorngren. Okay. Was the guy who took us up He was the engineer on Grandmaster Flash's record. Okay. And he was the one we went to, and then he took us to Harlem.

That's amazing. And I think he engineered that record, maybe. He may have, I'm not sure. Chapman produced it, but Eric may have come back in. Makes sense. And, well, later that year also, when Blondie hosted Saturday Night Live, they insisted that the Funky 4 Plus 1 be the musical guest. That was a fight.

Oh, really? That was a fight. How so? Nobody really knew. Well, no one knew who they were like. Yeah, nobody ever heard of. Damn. No, but that, that's me, that was an amazing moment.

Like, I remember that doing the first one of seeing that. Did you ever think at any point in time of time of managing hip hop artists or was that never wanted to? No. No. Never, um, never appealed to me. I didn't like, I started to see the thug element come into the music business. The backstage rhythm changed completely. The attitude of the artist, possees started to happen.

Never had to deal with possees before that. Jesus Christ, wait, you say that, and I didn't know that you started Carlos and Charlies. Like, these are the things you learn. Like, I'm casually mentioned. And like Carlos and Charlie's was like the go-to Hollywood spot. And he's like, oh, I co-own that. And I was like, r-hr? And I only know of it because of Eddie Murphy.

Oh, my God. Every Eddie Murphy's story ever heard and print story starts with Carlos and Charlies. Like even that those Rick James Chappelle. I have a great Eddie Murphy story in Carlos and Charlie. Yeah. Again, it was there were possees didn't really exist. The first posse that I saw with my eyes was, Thomas Hearns came to the club with the posse.

And, you know, I don't think they were called posse, but he had like six guys with them who... Hang our horns. Yeah, and they moved like a wave. You know, they were... So Eddie Murphy had a posse. And he comes one night into the... He came here almost every night to the club,

but he comes in this one night, and his club was very empty, and there's a little white kid on the dance floor with his girl, and the posse comes through like this, and hits the guy and sort of breaks his nose. Oh, wow. And there's nobody in the club. and there's nothing going on.

And he starts giving them shit. With his nose bleeding, it's coming down. I was down and said having dinner. They called me upstairs. And now for the next 30 minutes is this ridiculous escapade of Eddie Murphy trying to get to this kid to beat him up because he's talking

disrespectfully to his people. My guards are around them, keeping them away from getting hurt. And it's just really stupid. And I go over to Eddie and I said, I didn't know him well, but I said, listen. man, you won the game, you're rich.

It's like you won it. You don't have to beat the kids. Look at his nose. He's like, you know, it weighs 100 pounds. You really don't have to do this. You won, just calm down. And he wouldn't let go. So I called the police. I had a sergeant who went to, and we got him arrested.

And he went to jail. And it's about 5.30 in the morning. My phone rings at my house, and it's the guy named Don Simpson. And he says, Chef, you still on Carlos and Charlie's? And I said, yeah. He said, you've got to help me. I'm starting a movie this morning, and my lead actor, Eddie Murphy, is in jail.

Guessing the movie was? It was Beverly Hills' comp. Oh, shit. This is the best part of the story. So I call up the sergeant, and I say, I'm really sorry. We've got to get him out of jail. Now you've got to get the charges dropped. I'm not going to charge it.

No one's going to, I got the kick. So he goes down to the jail, and he calls me up. He says, okay, the motherfucker won't leave the cell. We said, you're out, you're out of here. And he said, if you want me out of here, that I'm staying here. He just had to have the last word. Oh my God, man.

2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.

I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I always wondered, did hip-hop come around and bite you a little bit personally because we find out in the documentary Super Minch that you ended up adopting two of your ex-girlfriend's grandchildren, four of your ex-girlfriend's grandbabies, and they're of a certain age being raised in the 80s and 90s and stuff. So I just wonder at some point.

I could remember there was a grandchild. It's a great moment. It's funny you bring that up because it's exactly, there was this great moment when, you know, I've built my life on, with Alice, by trying to get parents to hate them. That was my goal. And now it's 10 or 15 years later.

The kids are getting, you know, I have these four kids, they're young, they're staying in the bedroom next to me at my house. And I come walking by and I hear hip-hop for the first time. And I open the door and I go, what is this shit you're listening to? And as I say it, I realize, oh my God, this is exactly. They're going to, that's it.

And what's the oldest kid? How old? Now 35. Oh, so back then. Yeah. Prime. Well, they were prime. Oh, yeah.

No, the dungarees were always, you know, the underwear was showing. It was every single thing. If they were, yo MTV Raps was all they cared about. Wow. That was, you know, that was their life. And your calm. But I knew it right then. As soon as I said the, when those words came out of my mouth, I said, it's, the music business

is changing. Because if I can't stand it, it's going to be the biggest thing. Then it works. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So probably the biggest lesson that I learned, I mean, the point where I realized, like, oh, this is a lesson that I have to learn is the fact that you had to walk away from it.

And really just let go, which to think about that right now for me is like, that's one of the the scariest things because you think like this is all I have like this all I don't have a lineage or that sort of thing and it's just like well I've made a commitment to the music business so this is all I've got I mean at what point did you like did it take having to go to the hospital where it's no no my was completely different I had a I've always done knee jerk reactions I've never been a planner I plan for my artist, for my own life. I've always, you know, I wake up in the morning, I react. And I had a premiere at Universal Studios for one of my movies,

Big Red Carpet premiere. Clegg lights of flying and, you know, all that stuff. And I was bored to death. Like, so bored. You know, I just couldn't wait to get out of there. Go see CNN do anything, but it was, you know, the same old, same old, same old. For me. And the next day after, you know, I just have.

flew to Mauian. I was alone on my hammock having a drink at sunset, and every molecule in my body was ecstatic. Like, ecstatic. I can't even describe how happy. And I said to myself, you know, you're miserable there, you're happy here. What are you doing? It's pretty simple. Like, what's life all about? I work so hard to get happy. And I found what makes me happy, and I'm not doing it. and I went to the office about four days later and resigned from everybody and told them the story and I said, you know. You don't have a fear of missing out? We call it a phoma.

You didn't have a... Because it's, to me, it was sort of false gods anyway. You know, it's like fools gold. I mean, I've always had that awareness that we're in the entertainment business. It really doesn't matter. And it is sort of fools gold. and it's fun and it's great and it provides great stuff, but it's not, you know, it's not curing cancer.

And for me as a manager, what I also realize is that up until that point I had spent my life living other people's lives, and I had no idea what my life actually was. Like if I don't have to go to the office, am I going to be bored to death, am I going to like myself, am I going to hate myself, maybe I'm going to get married, like I always wanted to do. do but I never had never happened let me find out what my journey is maybe what I found out is that there's no difference like my life is absolutely not different retiring not

retiring I probably if I get a second life and could do it again I probably wouldn't retire I would find a way to have the two live with each other because there were great advantages for me to be in the traffic I still love to think of something and then make it happen to create something out of it doesn't exist and I did a big benefit Monday night for a chef Roger Verje with about 20 chefs and in the early days I could do that with a staff in my office so I could think of it now it's just me so the effort is gigantic the result is probably less than it might be with the great staff and I still do the same stuff but you're not retired either technically you're not

I'm mad at Jowles, but in my brain, I thought I was your job. But even with the chefs. I mean, he's taking himself out of that, out of the, the hustle and bustle of. Like, did you personally have a one-on-one with all your clientele? Was it just like a- I called everybody. I did it on the phone. I called them all the only, I, Luther, who I hadn't spoken to in a couple of years,

was it was the only one that was sort of upset. Okay. And then when I was, so I woke, I got back to. I called Alice and I said Where are you? He said he up in L.A. I said, well you picked me up today for lunch because I want to get really drunk and I don't want to drive. And he said, what's wrong? And I said, nothing wrong but I'm going to

resign from everybody but not you but and I really don't I want to get whacked. And so I called all the clients. Everybody was, and I told him the truth. You know, I said I want to find out who I am. I have no idea what my life is. And how old were you at this point? I was 57,

56 maybe, 55, 56. How much grace time do you give them? Like, okay, so as. No, what I said to him was, you know, you can use the office. Okay. Use my guys if you want. So why it was still running? Yeah, I can find you somebody else.

Okay. If you'd like, I'll give you a list. I'll go to the interviews with you and really help you get through it. I just, I got to find out who I am. You know, this is for me, not about you. And everybody was happy. Luther wasn't. but he sort of understood.

And as I was leaving the office with Alice, the phone rang, and my secretary said, you've got to take this call. And I said, I'm not taking any more calls. It's over, done. I'm going to have a lot. And I said, no, no, no, you really got to take this call. And it was George Harrison, who had just found the basement tapes, that John Lennon song Free as a Bird.

Right. And he said, you think any record company will put this stuff out? And I said, do I think any... Nah. Beals? Nah, get out of here. He turned out to be close to right. It was a fight.

Oh, really? A fight. A fight for you guys to get a new Beatles on him? Capital didn't want to resign him. What? It was, it's a long... It's a whole other story and it's a long one, but it was... Gary Gersh era in Capital?

I hired Gary at Capital when... At that... During that... You see what I mean? Right, right. During that... Do you know this guy named? Gary Gersa, he was at a capital.

During that period of time. So, anyway, I ended up making the deal with capital, which wasn't easy for him, and doing, working on the BBC tapes and the anthology. And Luther freaked out. You told me you were resigning. Now you're doing the Beatles. How do he find out? He found out.

I have no idea. He rewrote his biography and took me out of it. I was very heavily in the first print. Oh, wow. And of the second printing. Petty. I was like, Petty. I didn't exist.

Tom, Petty, Petty. Petty Penderg. That's like, Petty Penderg. Oh, my God. I'm more amazed that a new Beatles song. Well, there's a long history here. So here's sort of the, let me give you the cover of it. Here's the cover.

Okay. Capital EMI, an electronic. company that happened to be in the music business. But Thorny MI was the core of their business. They made refrigerators, defense stuff. They were basically a science patent owner company. And they hired a guy named, they bought a company from a fellow name Colin Southgate and made him chairman of Thorny MI part of the purchase.

He gets the job. He's in the job for three weeks. he goes what they call Wall Street in England the street so he goes to make his first speech to the street and the announcement is that they've re-signed the Beatles in the press conference

during the press conference as he's saying we resign the Beatles a warrant server comes up to him and gives him a lawsuit from the Beatles to get off the label this is his first time as head of the company addressing the street.

So for him, I never want to see the Beatles. When the contract's over, get rid of the Beatles. Don't ever want him near here. Can't stand them. What? So now the contract's up. At that point, guys who are running the company were more interested in their bonuses

than in, you know, they shut the black music department of Capitol Records. Yeah. Like, just to get to their bonuses. I remember. Yeah. If the Beatles wanted $42 million to resign, which they deserved. If they had given them that money, they wouldn't have gotten their bonuses.

So I had the chairman, the president, and the vice president, all against resigning the Beatles. And it was wild. To them is more of a headache. Yeah, they didn't want to deal with it. They didn't care. They wanted their bonus. They couldn't care less. imagine none of the Beatles music being on any other label other than Capitol yeah so um anyway

we made it work but wow it was it was pretty wild yeah well I mean you know I can go on forever and ever but um you know all good things come to win in yeah and uh this was fun guys yeah this is like been the greatest this is really fun speech like this is man so one question I did have So now, you know, what does managing Alice Cooper look like now? Like on a day-to-day basis? What is that intent? I don't, it doesn't occupy the whole day. Okay.

But I still wake up in the morning thinking about how to enhance his career. And I go to sleep at night thinking about how to enhance the career. Recently, we just put him in a band with Johnny Depp that I created, which was great for his profile. It was a win-win. Johnny's a musician. always wanted to tour. I'm always looking for a way to make Alice current and give it an extra twist. So that was perfect. Now we're running in for president. We have a great campaign for get Alice elected. He's on the wild party. Slim pickings. His platform is Groucho Marx on a $50

Jowell. Lemmy on Mount Rushmore. Wow. One selfie allowed a year. Prison sentence for anyone talking in a movie theater. That's his platform. I'm with him so far.

So Alice is everybody in their life should have a relationship like Alice. It's just we've it's been an amazing 45 years and he gives me the freedom to fail which gives me the freedom to be creative.

Well, I have to say you are probably, I mean, the textbook guru of all gurus. I mean, there's no person that I've not made, watch this documentary over and over again, and you've been very, very generous in your wisdom and everything. I really would like to thank you, Chef Gordon, for just being here, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for doing Quest Love Supreme. Thank you.

You guys are great. Really fun. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also a lot of people.

an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side

a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO% on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.