The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Sleater-Kinney

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

The guests on this 2020 episode of Questlove Supreme have been called one of the most important rock bands in the last 30 years, also being credited as pioneers in the Riot Grrrl movement. Listen to this QLS Classic as Sleater Kinney breakdown why hiatus is necessary and how this journey led them to a Path of Wellness.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Ranchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What is up? This is Unpaid Bill from Quest Love Supreme. In celebration of women's history month, we are highlighting conversations new and old and some legendary women. Back in July 2021, we interviewed one of the most important rock bands in the last 30 years, also being credited as pioneers in the Riot Girl movie. I asked Carrie and Corinne about having a band without a bass player, which always blew me away.

Listen back as Slinger Kinney talk about health, creativity, and art. Enjoy this episode. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't have the name of my show. Okay, I got it. Restyle Supreme. Right. Matter of fact, just let this be the intro. Summer Supreme.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Questlove, and you're listening to another episode of Quest Love Supreme, featuring Unpaid Bill Tony winner of Freestyle Love Supreme, by the way. Yes. We have also Fonticlo with us. What's up, brother?

What up? What up? What's that? And Sugarth, Steve. Hi, everybody. Yeah, how are you doing? This is going to be a very quiet episode because Lai is not with us right now, but she's with us. A very quiet episode.

We're very honored to have our guest today. Our guest first emerged from Olympia, Washington, via 1994. Well, I would like to say that Northwest, because I don't know if it's Portland or Olympia, Washington. But I will say that I became aware of them because everyone knows that of my fan worship of music critics. and it's like my my my my music hero Robert Christigau formerly of the village voice he called them one of the most important rock bands in the last 30 years and they've been rightfully credited as the pioneers and the riot girl movement between their self-title debut in 94 and their seventh album the wood in 2005 they took a nine-year hiatus which I'd never heard a hiatus that long

unless you're from Richmond, Virginia. I'm about to say. I'm sorry. No shade. Right, that's a real hiatus. Returning with 2014's No Cities to Love following another five-year break with these St. Vincent produced,

the center won't hold. By the way, shout out to any band that uses any Chen Wachaby or William Yeats' references in their album titles. if the roots were to make things fall apart, part two, I would have actually called it, The Center Won't Hold.

Thankfully, the gap between their latest album, which is called The Path of Wellness, was only two years. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme Sleader Kinney. Thank you, ladies, for joining us. Yes. Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us. How are you? We're good. We're good. Yeah, we're, uh, we, yeah, we're, uh, we, Yeah, we would just to answer your question from the intro, I think it was, I think the Northwest is a good enough thing to say because Olympia, Portland, yeah, they're far apart, but we were kind of living in both places at once. So that counts. You know, it's weird in doing research, I realized, I didn't realize how much of the actions of the Northwest and the creative epicenter of the Northwest really informed the blueprint of, of my career.

Because, you know, in choosing Geffen as a label, of course, Nirvana was like part of that decision making. Even us having to move to Europe, inadvertently, Kurt is sort of responsible for that. But, you know, we spend a lot of time, like Portland's my all-time favorite city on earth. And just the time period that we spent performing and gigging between the, uh, the two states between like 90, four to 99, well, really on, but there was a period between like 94 and 99 in which like we did a lot of concentrated touring between the two areas and sort of having gotten to know like a lot of people that were sort of legends on the scene. Like I didn't get to know YouTube, but like when I first got there, sort of like Kathleen was kind of our guide. Like, you know, we really didn't know about the Riot Girl movement and anything like that, but she was like really an interesting.

character sort of like took a liking to us and kind of shows us a rope. And so I didn't realize like how much the North, the Northwest sort of played in, in our decision. I actually want to start by asking. So during that period in which like the entire music press was like salivating, almost fetishizing like what's coming, like what's, what's the magic in the Northwest or whatnot, like how does that play into how you can even find a space to be creative? in forming a band and getting space when like every critic's looking for the next like who's coming out on subpop or these labels like what was it like then yeah yeah no I think it was I think it was pretty overwhelming like at the time because there was such high level journalists

who would like come to a riot girl meeting or show up at a riot girl Girl Show. And, you know, we were kids at the time. Like, we were writing this like confessional poetry and this, you know, this work that was like very personal and, um, I don't think we realized how intense that spotlight was. Um, but when we did, I think it was, you know, it felt like it was almost radioactive at times. Yeah. And we actually left, like when Slater Kinney, formed, which was, yeah, like 1994, we were still in other bands, but we started playing music together. And, you know, Olympia and that scene was so insular. And I mean, you know, when you're coming out of a small scene, there's, it's like a blessing and a curse. You have all this support,

there's community. But then there's also this way where you feel like everyone already knows you, everyone already kind of has these expectations of you and you can't necessarily step out of that or redefine who you want to be. And so we actually went all the way to Australia. Like we actually created space and distance in order to be able to imagine ourselves as something else. Imagine ourselves outside the glare of some of that, you know, journalistic scrutiny.

And I think you have to do that. You either, if you don't have the ability to physically leave, you have to create an imagined space for yourself. I was wondering if that was a typo because I was like, wait a, Melbourne, Australia, to create your first record? Like, how does that happen? But I also wanted to know because I, I, it's weird because I fell into you guys kind of asked backwards and I'll be fully transparent.

It's like I know everything about you guys and I know nothing about you guys only because it's kind of weird to say that I fell and ass backwards because usually when a guest comes on the show, like I know everything about them but their DNA. And so in my particular case, like if people come up to me in the airport, they were, you know, refer to me as like, oh, that's Jimmy Fallon's drummer. Or like, oh, you're the guy on your Gabba Gabba. And, you know, sometimes my ego, like, it doesn't hurt now, but, like, in the beginning, like, my ego would get, like, really deflated.

I would just, you know, I feel like that was sort of like asking Michael Jordan if he's the guy in the Haynes commercial. So I would say that you were always a name that I was fully aware of. Up until the creation of Portlandia, like I only knew and studied the Sleader, model simply because like your names were always constantly on the top of every like of critics I worship and like your medicritic numbers was super high you know Krista gal is putting you on the top of the past and job stuff and like again like I'm gonna critic obsessive like putting these shit on my wall studying these things figuring out the the metrics and all that stuff and you know but it took reading uh your hunger book carry for me to really like all right I'm gonna dive into this

and actually like, I'm going to immerse myself and understand their art. And the thing was because I fell into you first with humor. And then I went back to the self-title. I was like, oh, wait a minute, huh? I was like, yo, said I wasn't ready. But then I realized that you guys have really like, I feel like we almost took a similar journey in terms of, you know, where you started, the internet meme, how it started and where it's and where where you are now it's been quite a journey how are you how are you as far as the position of where you're perceived as like this really influential group that is is

influential to other musicians but like not mainstream like how does that feel you know i think like you're saying you've you've like been through a journey and and i feel like with you know with getting older and with kind of having that realization that music is a journey, you know, and that art is a journey and humor and all of it can be part of it. I think that I feel really grateful of where we're at in a way because it's true. We might have like less commercial success than a lot of other like bands that we've sort of come up with. But we have a lot of, like artistic freedom, you know, that I feel like we are still on this journey that is like we're building on it, like with producing our last, our most recent record ourselves and trying out

different things and hiring this whole new band of musicians. Like I'm, I feel really lucky in that way of like I feel very much like we are on this journey of like learning and becoming more, you know, able to to make art and make music. I was going to ask. why it took so long for you guys to finally produce your records. And what took so long to come to this place where you know what is in your head and what you want to execute? Or is it just important sometimes to have a fresh set of ears that can sort of, you know, is not afraid to challenge you or make you find, you know, an alternative way to get your ideas out?

Yeah, I think it's been nice to have an arbiter. And, you know, from being in a band, it's different than being a solo artist. So you're already contending with multiple personalities. And sometimes you need that peacekeeper. And so that you're not sort of turning on each other with ideas, you know, someone that can just step in and be like, how about this? And, you know, and then it almost gives you as a group something to like cohere around. You're like, well, actually we think, you know, it just, it forms these like in-group dynamics. So I think we've always relied on, I mean, I would say our early records,

were for all intents and purposes co-produced by us. You know, aside from like Dave Friedman on the woods or this guy Roger Moutonautno on the Hot Rock, it was a very hands-off approach from our producers. You know, they often wanted to just kind of capture the essence, but it was just nice to have another

voice there, I guess. So yeah, that's why. Since the constant presence on, you know, majority of your records was, so John Goodmenson, who, you know, I'm familiar with, with his Wu-Tang credits. I mean, he's worked with the Rizzo a few times.

Yep. Done a whole bunch of other albums. I always wanted to know, like, was it a thing where if you felt that you couldn't express an idea to your bandmates that you'd sort of express it to him and then he could sort of translate it better so that feelings weren't rattled or whatnot or. I don't feel like we ever circumvented each other. I think it was just having a sounding board. And we trusted him.

Like you said, like he's worked with a. really a broad range of artists. He's great. You know, we never traditionally had a bass player, so he's great with drums. He's great with low end. Like, he's, yeah, it was, I think it was almost like he was part cheerleader, part kind of deciding vote. But we never, like, said, hey, John, can you tell Corin that I'd rather do this?

So you're not the roots. Okay, I get it. I get it. Okay. Usually I start the show off. I'm very interested in the, the, the, journey that gets you there. This is the first time I'm really talking to Corinne. So I'll ask you what I mainly ask, uh, our guest on the show. Can you tell me your first musical memory? Oh my God.

Did that say like, you know, art war? I love it. I really pronounced it like, physical memory. Yeah. I know these guys are like, you never talk like this, Amir. What are you doing? Okay. Yeah. I, so my dad is like a hobby musician. Um, and he, did like folk music in the 60s. He actually opened a gig for like Pete Seeger once was like his claim to fame. And he went on and, you know, and eventually became like a college professor. But he would when I was born, he would like play music. And my first memory is like singing with him.

So we he would, you know, teach me Woody Guthrie folk songs and, you know, all that kind of like 70s stuff. So that's my first memory of me. Where were you born? I was actually born in Pennsylvania at State College when my dad was getting his PhD there. Oh, you're from PA? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So am I. Okay, cool. Can you tell me the first album that you purchased? Oh, my God. Which is different from like an album in your house that's already there. Like the first album that you purchased with your own money. Yeah.

Put your own money. Yeah. Or stole in this group. you could have stolen it. There was like this album with Pat Benatar where she's wearing a straight jacket. The second album.

Not the heat of the night. The one within me with your best shot on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The big album. I was like, this, for whatever reason, I was like, I need this. Okay.

I put down hard money for that album. Was she your North Star when you were growing up? Like what voices did you gravitate towards? Definitely. Pat Benatar, you know, like this is a big, very muscular, you know, intense voice, great singer, for sure. And yeah, I mean, I love Dolly Parton. I loved Aretha Franklin. You know, like the big voice with a big, like, range was always like so influential, I think. All right, Carrie, I'll go to you. Could you tell us what your first musical member? where he was. Yeah, I think mine is probably a little less cool than Korn. Sorry, I have this young dog. It's like suddenly decided this is his witching hour. And my parents did not have great taste in music. They always liked the albums. Like there's the Eagles who I'm not a big fan of, but my dad also had all their solo albums too.

Stop stalling. Okay. First, okay. You're stalling. All right. Definitely it was my parents had a party, like not a party, but like a hangout. And they were, they had the long run by the Eagles on. And I needed to go.

No, no, I like the Eagles. I like this, I like that album. But I'm just saying like, so I was, I needed to go to bed. My parents were like, it's time for you to go to bed. And I was like, I would first like to perform life in the fast lane for you all. Wow, wow. Which is the song about like driving on the highway like coked out of your head. And it has a hell of a guitar line to it.

It does. And I didn't know it was about that. I just thought it was about it was a cool song about driving. So I just sang along to the song and my parents and their friends just humored me. And then I went to bed. That's the first thing I remember musically. That's your first musical memory. Can you tell me the first album that you purchased with your own money?

Yes, it was thriller Michael Jackson. Yes. I mean, you know, it was the biggest album in the world. And everyone had to have it and I listened to it a million times. I see. That was the first album I ever owned, too. That was the first, my own personal album that I own myself. See, to make you feel better, Carrie, although I would love to say something really cool,

I've already been out in the press. The world knows that, like, Neil Sedaka was the first 45. father. So I got you laughing the rain to jam, though. Yeah, but mom was more bad blood. Like, sorry. Yeah.

So I, you know, I'm not that cool when you either, Carrie, so you're cool. At what point for the both of you, are you realizing that you have a voice or that music is something that you're interested in. doing, not just something that casually just happens, you know, in your household. I think for me, I, I moved to Olympia to go to college. I went to like, you know, the Evergreen State College when all of the stuff was happening. And I have to credit Bikini Kill and Bratmobile playing a show. And I was just, I just got to be like right up close like right there when they were doing their thing and I was like I want to do that I'm going to

start a band and I in my head I started a band like that night I was just like I'm in I'm doing it too okay you know because I saw them do it they were my age and they were they were just starting out and so it just like opened the door can you explain to me the the whole idea of what rye girl represents and is that a title that was invented by the proprietors or again was it some guy from spin magazine sort of searching for the next big thing and then said okay this right girl with a bunch of ours in it no it was it was actually like a genuine movement you know it was okay the the title was you know started by a young woman in dc who was like we need to start an actual movement for women in the independent music scene that that highlights

women's roles and supports women and talks about safe spaces for women and there were meetings. You could go to a meeting. You could talk about all these things. You could talk about, you know, being in a bad relationship, sexual assault, like all of the kind of like taboo stuff at the time. At that time, yeah. At the time, there just wasn't another space for that stuff to. to come out and happen. So it was, it was very real. It was very taboo at the time. And,

you know, Kathleen, Hannah was, she was, you know, very much like a cultural leader. Right. She was, she was, she was like our poet. Because she was writing in the stuff that she was incredible poet, incredible writer and performer, you know, and very confrontational. But she was saying all the stuff that we were, we were all. like so afraid to say ourselves. Okay, so the first time I met Kathleen Hena, I didn't know, I was mean, like I didn't know anything about Rye Girl, like the roots are just doing a show somewhere up in Seattle. I forget the spot in Seattle that we were playing.

I know it's across the street from the spot where they throw fish. Oh, yeah, the showbox. Yeah, we were at the showbox. Yeah, I'll say that, yeah, I met. Matter of fact, the first three times I've met or seen Kathleen, she was like cursing someone out. Like, it was always like, my manager, Rich was, those two were like really good friends. So he's sort of my manager who passed away. Him and her really became good friends.

And, you know, he just liked that makes all the sense. Oh, my God. Yeah, you see it down right. Because hearing you describe, oh, my God, that makes, yeah. Oh, that's how I don't know this shit. Like, my shit is all trickles down economics from rich. And him and Kathleen were, like, talking whatever. Like, I mean, but she was just, I'd never seen that person so just wild and unhinged

and just told what the fuck she felt and all that. And, like, I was just like, oh, this is unheard of, whatever. So that was, like, my introduction to her. She was cool and very nice to us. But, like, in a second, she will, she'll bring the ruckus. And I just never seen that shit. So, you know, and I only be like, oh. and intense or whatever, but that's what it was like for me meeting her. So could you tell me what

the environment was at least at the time in the Northwest that really prompted this movement to really find its legs? Yeah, I mean, you know, the Northwest was, was this hotbed of like independent music. So there was all of this like criticism of mainstream music that was, you know, know, that wasn't genuine. It wasn't, you know, real art and everything. And this music scene was about, you know, like real people telling their stories and making music available to everyone. So, you know, $5 shows and all of that.

But it was also this kind of like slam dancing, rather violent culture at every show. And so there was just not a lot of space for women. to feel like, am I going to be safe going to this show? Am I going to feel like, you know, my voice is heard. And the roles for women were still like, oh, yeah, you know, my boyfriend's in that band. And right. And just like when we're still. Yeah, a foil.

And so when you had a personality like Kathleen, who's like protagonist, right? So she was like center stage at all times. it was like an arrow like shot through our hearts it was like I I want to be like that like I'm I was a shy awkward kind of academic type kid but I saw someone just like take control of the stage be like I have a story to tell and everyone in this room is going to listen and that just opened the door it kind of took feminism

and you know even though they're definitely you know very fair critiques of riot girl like just like other early iterations of feminism, it lacked intersectionality. And, you know, it was it was largely white women, although there was tons of women of color there as well. But it definitely took feminism out of an academic context and gave it a very like punk, very colloquial vernacular. It was like here was, you know, like a world that punk had just come out of like a hardcore phase, especially on the West Coast, which was super violent. So all of a sudden it was like, what if we took this movement, these ideas that are largely like in, you know, college textbooks and just put it over three courts and screamed it. And that was very liberating. I think to think that if you had a message, it didn't necessarily need to be couched in a book, you know, that it could be couched in a scream or a Yelp. And I think that just freed up a lot of people to express themselves. I mean, the same way so much music just becomes like a source of liberation. for people where it's like, I have something to say, and now I can say it over this song

instead of, you know, writing out. And I can say it my way. Exactly. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a point. plays for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Lepin and Michael Maranchenie. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never. mess with her friends either.

We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he did. serves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big

Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players

flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. So what's the point where you two meet each other and sort of talk in terms of starting a group in and starting the beginning of Sleeter Kinney? Yeah, I was 94.

I was already living in Olympia to go to college as well. Corin was, I think you were in your senior year. And we were both in other bands. Corn was in a much more like prototypical or archetypal riot girl band called Heavens to Betsy. And I was in a band called Excuse 17. You know, that was that like day, those days were like. Kathleen was in that group too, correct? The Kathleen, no.

She was in neither. She was in a, but. I know she was in other bands. I didn't know if everyone was in so many bands. Everybody was trading. All right. Okay. Yeah.

And so, uh, we just saw this kindred spirit in each other like, you know, Corrin was the only, her band was two people, Corrin on guitar and a drummer. And then I was in a band with a similar setup to Slater Kinney, what Slater Kinney would be, two guitars and drums. And we just, we thought, I know, I heard Corinne sing and I was like, I would love to be writing songs with this person. And she heard me play guitar and had the same feeling. And so we started playing kind of as a side project. And then pretty quickly, that became what we wanted to do. It was just a very innate chemistry. Why was there always no bass players?

I'm just, just because you didn't want them? It was, it was definitely like a thing in the northwest of like, you know, how can we be different and not like, you know, sort of the archetype rock band. Yeah, and neither of us played. I think it just was played bass. And we just wanted to be this like kind of tight unit. I think there's sometimes when you're, when something is perceived as a lack, it actually can be a strength. We're like, how can we find a way into these songs without the traditional instrumentation?

You know, it kind of forces you to write differently. We detuned to see sharp. So Corne was singing in this really high register and, you know, trying to get low end sound out of her guitar. And yeah, I think we used it to our advantage, although now in the past couple years, you know, obviously we like bass. Early on, though, people always ask us, like, do you guys not like bass. I'm like, no, 99.9% of all music we listen to has bass. Okay. How long have you been playing guitar, Carrie? I started when I was 15, so it has been, what is that, 30 years? Yeah. Yeah. Corinne, how long have you been playing guitar? It is. It's like 30 years because I started when I was like 18. So, okay, resisting the temptation of making a spinal tap, Joe.

And I know that Janet joined the band three albums later, but was it always the plan to sort of have various musicians? Because I noticed that what determines what your sound is probably also depends on the musicians that are playing with you as well. So your first drummer, Laura McFarnelly, how do musicians come in the group and how do they leave? Like is it just a one and done thing or you guys are just taking this a little more serious than the other? no i mean definitely just to say about janin she was an integral part of the band i mean i wrote about it in my book when she joined you know we were like yeah that's when you jelled yeah we're like this this is this is great i would i'm i am sure as people assess us you know 10 15 years from now or you know they're like that'll be the classic period of the band so you know they were never throw away

she'll be in the rock and whole hall of fame i get it yeah she's a great driver so no but corin can talk about laura um because yeah she had brought her own a von guard style for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is like a little bit happenstance on on our part. Like, you know, we went, we did go to Australia thinking like, hey, let's play music. You know, and there was, there was like this international underground music community for real. And we wrote her letter. We wrote like the record label a letter. And she wrote back like, yeah, let's play music. And that's. That's just how it happened.

And, you know, and then eventually it was like, well, she did come over and we played music here. And then she was like, I kind of need to go back to Australia. We're like, yeah. Oh, okay. Now that you're in the game of being on an indie label, can you just walk us through the process of how do you manage to survive and be creative at the same time? Like for those first few albums, did you still have to have day jobs? Or was it like, okay, you know, we can sort of survive off of our club gigs and what units that we're selling? I mean, I think there's definitely some back and forth, you know, like there were still temp jobs, I think even after Dig Me Out.

I think that we kind of put this idea about being creative and being control of the creative part of things as something that was really important to us. So we were always willing to do whatever other jobs needed to be done, I think, just to like make money or whatever. I mean, we weren't, we weren't not making money from touring and we were always wanting to figure that out and make it better. We were always like ambitious about that. It just, it took us a while to get there. But at what point are you absolutely full time? We're banned. I can pay my bills.

I could put cheese on my whopper and not break the bank. Probably dig me out, I would say. So that's 97. I mean, let's also be clear. I was living in Olympia. I think my rent was $3.95 a month. So that doesn't take that much. You know, you can play a couple shows even as a tiny band and make, you know, so we were living in small towns in like, you know, sharehouses and stuff. But Dig Me Out. I mean, one thing at the time on indie labels was these profit shares, which, you know, you just, it was a split and people actually bought records. So even though these records weren't going gold or platinum, you know, when DigMe Out sells, you know, 75,000,

copies or 100,000 copies and you have, you know, getting 50% of profit share. Like at the time when you're in your early 20s, that's, that's definitely enough to live off of even if you're splitting it three ways. So by the time that you guys are out, I also know that every major label was looking up and down the aisles for the next big thing or whatever. I mean, so at no point, like, you know, I know you guys started off on chainsaw and then, uh, you know, you guys started off on chainsaw. the lovely title, Kill All Rock Stars. First of all, with those labels, is that, are there actual, are these actual labels or is just like, okay,

well, where are we going to call the label this time? Or like, is that your label and you guys have a distribution system? Or is Kill All Rock Stars like an actual label like Sub Pop is? And, you know. Yeah, no, Kill Rock Stars is definitely an actual label. And then at that point, I think, was pretty critical for us because after the first record

came out on chainsaw, which was a label run by fellow musicians, but they were like still touring. It was Jody and Donna from Team Dresh. So that was, you know, problematic. We did have a time when we were

recorded by major labels before Dig Me Out. And we considered it. You know, we considered we argued about it. We fought about it like crazy. So I'm going to ask you a question. Okay. Because I knew this was a parallel story with hip hop and with with with this movement. How at what point are you able to really relax and really not live in fear of the the idea of quote unquote selling out, you know, that shadow following you?

Like the perception of how we're, because the thing is is that. knowing what I know now, and again, because I worked backwards, I'm like, yo, like, you know, and you can even tell them that, like, with the videos that you're doing now and all that stuff, like the humor element and all those things that you're really showing your personalities, whereas once I went back to the beginning and realized like, oh, okay, it started off here and then you guys slowly blossomed into this thing, I can imagine that the perception of who you guys were as a group

or trying to present also probably played decisions made by the band and I always wanted to know how the perception of being seen as sellouts or being too successful

should we do this commercial or should we sign to this label this major label like will we be the same like how important is that perception playing in in the band at that period in your at least for the first three or four records it was huge i mean i mean you were around during that time too i mean it just was such a different

beast you know this this idea that somehow you know a major label was going to you know rob you of your artistic credibility that by aligning yourself with anything that was corporate or commercial you know signified, you know, something that was anti-art, you know, and there were a lot of arguments, treaties, you know, books, zines, you know, and very lively polemic and a lot of real anger, I think, from people that never really took into consideration how anyone grew up in terms of, you know, if they had money and that, you know, like, it just never, it was not a very nuanced conversation, but it was very real because you cared about your friends and to sort of, admit, you know, I want something more than I can get this route was really tricky. So we just,

we really didn't consider it. And I was probably the most hard line at the time. I was like the youngest. I was the baby in the band. And I think Corin was probably, you probably were the most interested. Am I right? No. Steel Magnolia is the term like to use. I was always, my eyes were always on the business route. more than anyone else. Yeah, she's good about that. But, you know, there were also these horror stories. You know, you would, for every band that had a decent relationship with their A&R person,

there was someone that had signed to a major and been dropped, you know, like a band like spoon or like, or even coming from the Northwest, you see Nirvana. You see this, this guy that was supposedly, you know, tortured by the fact that, you know, he no longer felt connected to who he was and his fans. So there were all these cautionary tales. So can I ask, and you know, maybe you can give me better insight because I never knew what happened at the end of it. Do you think this is precisely the reason why helmet didn't blow up? Like the perception of, because the thing is from an outsider, and again, my outsider status was more studied the stats,

learning the names, but I never got into the music. So as far as I knew, I knew there was the band that every label was salivating over and they'd gave them a seven-figure deal and it was helmet and they were going to be the next big thing and then I didn't hear shit from them and what's really weird was that when my band got approached by Geffen we were going to go to a whole other label we were ready to sign and when Geffen came along we were like eh okay let's let's pull a helmet and see what happens and we call their bluff and called this big ass gargantuan number and they took it and then it's like oh shit but the difference is is like, we never felt like, oh, we're selling out because we're taking a seven-figure deal.

It was more like, yeah, we made it out of poverty, like that sort of thing. So, you know, people were like, oh, y'all made it. That was the perception of it. But I always wanted to know with Helmut making, you know, this seven-figure deal, and they're going to be the next Nirvana, like, did that affect their fan base and the support from the Northwest from doing such a lofty move as in. grabbing the money, in your opinion? I think it could be.

I think you could make an argument that people were turned off by it. Okay. I see. I don't know. I don't know. I just, at the time, I think people talked about it. And, you know, and there was like an element of people kind of turning up their noses, you know? Okay.

So, yeah. Yeah. But I also think there was such a, it was such a time of anti-pop, you know, anti-sheen. And things were so compartmentalized genre-wise. So it was like, you know, a band like Helmet or Jawbox who also, you know, was a DC band that went and signed to a major. You know, these were these bands that were sort of admired for like their roughness, you know, helmet with a cool like corrosive sounding guitars and like this grit. And then they get a bunch of money. And at the time, of course, they're going to go.

They're going to work with a better producer. they're going to work in a better studio. They're probably going to have nicer, like, equipment. And that's like at the time was anathema to what people wanted to hear. Now people might be like, oh, that's cool. Like, you know, they're borrowing, you know, from other styles of music or, you know, it has a little bit more of a sparkle to it. But at the time, that was like, oh, there we go.

We have evidence that that, and that just wouldn't happen today. Well, I do have a theory about, it's less about that. I get worried when people start upgrading. You know, probably in the hip-hop sense of the, you know, the reason why hip-hop fans hang on so tightly to those very first six Wootang records is because, you know, they were made. The lore, the folklore of Wutang, the fact that he created this in his projects and Stapleton projects in Staten Island. and it was a very dirty, dusty sound. And, you know, it got flooded out. And then, of course, you know, Wu Tang blew up.

And then he upgraded. And then they made their second album, like, in Los Angeles, living in Beverly Hills. And the sound changed. It was too clean. Same thing for Prince. Prince making stuff in his bedroom. It was like the most perfect stuff in the world. Like, I love that sound.

But the second he upgraded and got Paisal Park or whatever, and then the sound is, you know, it sounded more vagusy to me and not like raw. And so I get worried when people upgrade. So, which I guess that's probably the same perception that the sound changes or whatnot. So by the time you guys get past DigMe out and like get to like the hot rock or whatever, I mean, at what point are you guys even thinking of like changing your sound or or trying new ideas? And how comfortable were you into making that pivot from where you were when you first started the band?

I feel like we always, I think, I think that was the moment. That was exactly the moment that we made our first pivot, that it just, there was no way to repeat, dig me out. Like it had just come from such a place of forcefulness. There's just no way to relax to that record. Like it just starts on 10 and ends on 10 and it just has this, you know, this catharsis and and it's just like, yeah, it's a long kind of scream with some, you know, different iterations. And with the hot rock, we just knew we couldn't repeat Dig Me Out. We just knew like this we can't be part two so i think we just created like this much more introspective landscape and i think that set us up correctly because people could not you know at the time

like you're saying like critics were much more there was it was more centralized in terms of like the power of like a critic so we just didn't want them to say like it's dig me out but not as good or not as intense and so we made the hot rock i will also say that um i have i have an envi for artists that have the ability to really get their point out in under like two minutes. Like, again, if I'm given the space to create like a gargantuan, you know, 12-minute art song, like, I'm that guy. But if you only give me two minutes to do something and I can't. And the fact that, especially like your debut album, like half the songs are like under, you know,

it's like average length is like two minutes. 10 seconds or whatever. Is anyone teaching you about song structure? Are you guys purposely taken from like the Ramones handbook or it's just like, okay, the average punk song has to be under this length.

To get so much information out like lyrically and all that content wise and under such a short period of time, like that's almost a gift. But did it come from a place where you guys purposely wanted to structure it like that or you know or is it that as you got further

long in the recording process, then you guys are realizing that, like, oh, well, there's space for a bridge here or maybe a guitar solo there or, like, stretch out the songs, make them longer. But, you know, like, for your first two albums, like, the length of both of them were definitely under a half hour. I think your first album is at least 20 minutes. So just talk about, like, at least the songwriting process of how you guys in the beginning were writing songs as opposed to really getting in the rhythm of presenting these songs. What's the, what's your work mode when you're creating songs?

I think that so much of it was instinctual and jamming. And honestly, at the beginning, there wasn't a lot of even dialogue about like, how can we make this song better? It was just like, you know, Carrie would start playing something. She'd play a riff. And I'd be like, keep playing that, you know, and start singing a vocal over it. You know, she's so much more of like a, like a, like a melody writer with guitar. And I, like, I like go off of my vocal when I'm writing. Like that's where the music comes from for me, for the most part.

And I'm just trying to get, I'm trying to start a story and get a melody that is compelling and follow it down. And so there wasn't a lot of, that's why I think the songs are so short is because they're, they are almost like, poems when they worked well, I thought. Do you start with the lyrics or or music first? Like what's your comfort zone when when a song comes to you? It's it's the it's the vocals. It's the melody. Just gibberish usually at the beginning.

Nonsensical right. Yeah, of course. And then it's always just going back and back and trying to make the lyrics better and better you know, usually. A win is a win. A win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

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talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear. anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I do want to know what was the decision on the Hot Rock also. That's the one album that John didn't produce with you guys. What was the decision to not work with him? I forget who produced the hot rock record, but. Yeah, it was this guy Roger Moutonoh who had worked with a band from Hoboken, Yolotango.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and Yolotango were definitely having a moment at the time. They were people who we really admired. And, you know, we were like, who produced the last Yolotango record? And for us, you know, again, it was, we were trying to get outside of our comfort zone. And John had gone to the same college as all of us. And, you know, he had worked with Bikini Kill and he, you know, it was just like, what if we brought in someone from a slightly different world? And he, he was. He lived in Nashville and, you know, Yolotango was kind of an anomaly for him. He worked with a lot more singer-songwriters. And he definitely approached our band a lot differently. There's not a lot of it's not a very distorted record in terms of guitars. He really, you know, was, I just remember. Cleaner. Yeah, it's a lot cleaner. And he was just like, he just loved Corin. Janet and I were just,

like, oh, yeah, uh-huh. And like, he just was like, oh, Corin, Corrin, Corrin. And it was, you know. You move to the side. Yeah. And which is fine, but we had just never been treated like that. And, but, you know, it's, it wasn't the first or it was the first time. It definitely wasn't the last time where someone like single someone out.

But it was just funny because, you know, usually you're like, no, we're a band. And he was like, now, Corinne, I loved that. I love that. I love that. Don't speak moment. Oh, don't speak. But we, I, we really liked working with Roger. but it was just it was different and I'm glad we did something different.

I'm also, you know, curious about the group dynamic, especially with a group with a legacy is yours. How important is it to maintain a personal friendship in lieu of the fact that you guys are also having a business? Like I went through a period where like we started out as best friends and then someone, by the third record, then it's like, we're just business partners and then, all right, two tour buses. And then I'll see you at the gig. And then, you know, like, we're, I'll say in the last three years, like, Tariq and I really, like, getting back to us really being friends again and not just about business. But how can you, how do you balance that when you're also

business partners and friends? Like, how do you, how is that balanced? Or is it just like on the off season? Or was it why that nine year hiatus happened? I mean, I think that, you know, like we were saying at the beginning, it feels like we've been on a journey, right? And I feel like sometimes we've balanced things, you know, like dig me out. We were all so young, but we were figuring all that kind of stuff out. How do we, how are we in a band?

How are we friends? How are we running our own business? Sometimes it, like, worked really well and sometimes it didn't, you know. Yeah, I think similar to what you're saying, Amaris, like, it's shifted, you know, and I think there was a time, I think, where we didn't intentionally, you know, care for it, like, you know, nurture it. Because you just kind of assume, well, we can, we can do all this. We can, we'll be friends and we'll run this business. But I think the business part, you start to realize, well, that has its own, like, politics to it. And sometimes those do not overlap really well.

And you have to kind of protect both. And as friends, you're like, oh, why are we favoring the business? You know, you're like, which one are we favoring in that moment? And that can get really volatile. I think when we came back after the hiatus and we did, we all kept in touch during that time. Was it an actual conversation like we should take a break and an indefinite break? Like, do we take off for five years or, hey, let's take off for a decade or? Well, I think Ian Mackay from Fugazi says he claims he invented the term hiatus or indefinite hiatus.

And I will, so I'll just give them credit for that. But I think we just use that term because we weren't sure. I think we thought we were done. Right, Corin didn't. It felt kind of like we were done. I didn't think so. Oh, we'll see. Here we go.

So after the last gig, so after the last gig, like, was it like, okay, we'll talk or, you know. when we went on hiatus. I think the woods, the woods was the last album of that period. So after the end of the woods, and I'm assuming that you toured behind it, or not, I think, yeah, it was the woods. Yeah. Then what, like, what happened a month later or just a year or two go by and you're like, oh, shit, we haven't wrote a, written a song in a second, or I'm going to do comedy or I'm going to write or. I got pregnant. that's also okay

my second I totally forgot that motherhood also plays a fact of this yeah Corinne was going to have another baby and I was I anxiety like ruled my life back then like it just and I just had a ton of yeah I mean we all know people who have anxiety like now that I feel like that part of my life is in check I can see the amount of energy it takes to be around

someone that has totally like unmitigated anxiety because you're just always you have to like suppress all your own shit so exhales yeah so that they can like figure shit out and I think that was kind of me in the band you know everyone was like oh gosh care you know carries dealing with all this stuff and so I think everyone was like this is not worth it you know corn's like if I'm going to leave one kid and be on tour have to bring a kid on tour this better be worth it you know and and I it just it was a natural breaking point I think so we were not like sitting around like like waiting to write other songs. It was like, we're done.

How did you, you talk about your anxiety and kind of working through that. How did you work through those struggles? I mean, honestly, I went to therapy. I just, I just did it. I just went and I was like, I need help with this, you know? And I just worked some stuff out that felt like it was kind of, you know, anxiety, I think, is just such a classic flip side to depression. And when you start realizing that really you're just expressing,

like fear and sadness in a way that's like much more outward, you know, you start kind of getting through it. And now, I mean, Corrin, you can testify. I'm like, I'm way more chill. Way more chill. And also, that's part of like how we work through being friends and and business partners is because we both worked on stuff on our own before we said like, let's play music together again. It's like we actually did some stuff, did some growing up. Wait, I have a theory. I know we're going to have to let you go soon, and I want to get to the end. I'm trying to rush through each record.

But I have a theory. Okay, so when I started doing my, the deep dive, your book came out when? 2016? Yeah, it was like year after year books. I remember we did those co-interviews. Yeah, those things together. Yeah. So I always had a theory that whenever I gravitate towards a particular album in someone's canon,

it's always the wrong album I gravitate towards. Like, I love hot rocks by the Stones. I love Rattle and Hum by YouTube. Like, I'm always picking the wrong damn album and their thing. And I'm afraid, what is, because, again, all of your albums are critically acclaimed, but for you personally, what is your feeling behind one beat? Because I really loved, of all your records, one beat was my favorite.

But what is the, like, I want to know if I chose the wrong album or not, like, in terms of, like, when people come to me and say, yo, man, I love the tipping point. I'm like, I fucking hate the tipping point. So it's, I feel uncomfortable, but like, with one beat, in your, or at least in your canon, what do you feel that your best work that represents you is? you think like an artist

is just going to cop to the record they don't like the most? Do you think like YouTube's like Rattled Hum sucks or whatever it is? I've talked to Bono about Rattled Hum and he in hindsight No, no no, I still stand by it but I usually when I talk to fellow

music snobs when it comes to my rock shit, like I like presents by Zeppelin when I should be like in physical graffiti but for some reason I always like I like three. Mine is three. That's my favorite one. But that's classic.

Right. That was also a departure record. So I'm not saying a departure record, but in your canon, what do you feel is your your favorite? No, what is your favorite and what do you feel your departure record is? I mean, One Beat is one of my favorites because it's like. Okay, well, I'm growing up then. Yeah.

It's because it's like such a record. of it's so emotional. It was right after I had my son. So a lot of the songs are about like that experience about joy and about like the fear of, you know, having this thing that you love more than anything in this kind of dangerous world. Yeah, I think one, we definitely stand by one beat.

For years, it was the album before that, all hands on the bad one, that I think we would, I mean, it's hard to assess because it was definitely the first album where there was, I think Rolling Stone called it the dog biscuit of our of our catalog. And I remember just looking at those words, dog biscuit. I was like, wow, that's harsh. How important is the critical claim to you? Not, you know what?

And is it like having a like a perfect report card? Like are you obsessed with keeping it on that level? No, because we, we blew it up on the on the last two records. people were like, oh, that's, I mean, you know, the same Vincent record that she produced for us. I was going to say the center one hold. That's our definite departure record. Okay. I like it too.

And I think it's funny because now people like it. It took a, you know, it took the year and a half for two years. I mean, I think people liked it at the time, but it might not have been the same people that liked Dig Me Out or one beat. Like we got a lot of new fans on the last record. And we have a lot of new fans on this record, too. But the people that. It was a very experimental record. Yeah.

Very. you guys came on the show to promote like yeah i was i was into it i was going to ask what was it like working with st vincent she was great we learned so much from her i mean she's so she's so she approaches a song and songwriting with such a like a larger vision you know she'll she'll go in and just you know take a vocal part that i was doing and like a certain register and be like well what if you bump it up two octaves and i was like bump it up too octaves wow oh push yourself Yeah, she's such a maximalist. And I think, you know, like you were talking about our early material, like there was,

there was a lot of minimalism there. There was a lot of just this kind of like raw strip back, you know, essence to the band. And I think she just, she created this density in there that I thought was interesting. You know, for us, that's a new thing to explore. It's a different way to get out some of the emotionality. Okay. So with the path of wellness, of course, this is. your first album without Janet in the band.

So, first of all, what was the process like creating an album, you know, in the face of the apocalypse? I'm curious about anybody that's in a creative space, like, that starts their process, like, around June, July, or whatever. So can you explain the process of creating this record, especially the fact that I would assume that you guys started in, you know, somewhere in 2020. Where was your headspace and how were you not? Or were you using the energy of the panic of the world to create this album? I mean, a little of both. We actually started it. So it was, we were supposed to go on tour with

Wilco last summer. And, you know, it was like the end of the touring cycle for the center won't hold. So it's, you know, those like secondary tertiary markets where it's just like amphitheaters in the summer. Sheds. Yeah. Sheds. When you said you're hiding. Yeah, the shed tour. And so we were imagining, we started writing some songs thinking like, oh, well, maybe like road test some new material. And it had this, like, very sort of, like, outdoors feel.

Like it was like, we're making music to connect with people in this, in these, like, collective spaces, sunny days. And then all of a sudden it was like the pandemic. But we still had, I think, musically, something left over from that feeling. So I think we started in a place where. the music felt like it was trying to imagine like togetherness. But then we were in this like claustrophobic, fearful, insular space, you know, with so much strife up front of different kinds going on around us,

you know, from protests to forest, you know, wildfires to the pandemic itself. And so you get this kind of like narrow, like very, I don't know, just kind of these lyrics that are like trying to wrestle with all these things over music that has I think some lift to it. So it's a little bit of like a, I don't know, two things kind of meeting in the center. What do you think? Are you guys currently in Portland right now or? Yeah. Yeah. What exactly is going on in Portland right now where it's like it's the side of Portland I never knew existed like politically like just. what's been going on in the last year and a half.

Is it still happening? Can you just basically explain what the environment is like there now? I think, unfortunately, it's still pretty tense. You know, like in terms of protesting and the different groups that are drawn to Portland. I mean, we have this, we have a police force that is. out of date and I'll put it mildly. They're very out of date and how they're doing things. We have these very radical left-wing protesters,

and we also have this very rural white conservative group that loves to come into Portland and just cause trouble. So we still have a lot of these different factions going on. So we still have a lot of work to do here. Yeah, I think there's, I mean, there was definitely a reckoning like there were, there was in many cities. And, you know, there are groups here like don't shoot PDX and care not cops that have been working for, you know, racial justice and, you know, to get rid of like dismantle like the police, the way policing is now for years, you know. And then of course that coalesced with the George Floyd, Brianna Taylor protests and the BLM movement. And that was what was happening last summer. But there. And you also had a faction that were not really aligned with that, that were just there to like fuck shit up. And so the people that are still kind of protesting tend to be not in the BLM movement,

tend to just be a little more in the Antifa thing. And it's not that I disagree with everything Antifa stands for, but it is, it's the city has a long way to go. I think for like figuring out how to coalesce some of these ideas and actually make progress. But luckily there are people who have been working at this for a while that hopefully will kind of have their voice heard now that I think are hopefully having a platform to make changes. But yeah, I mean, I'm sure people have been calling, anyone I know that lived in Portland had everyone like texting them like, what is going on? It just seemed so crazy for a while.

Yeah, I was shocked. I was like, wow, I had to readjust my list. All right, before I let you go, Carrie, I got to ask you, have you met her yet? no okay let's recall let's recall when we were on the tonight show like how could you waste such an opportunity i know but that was so stressful because remember she was running late yeah she's running late and then and who are we referring to okay so you know there's there's a special place uh in carrie's heart for madonna the the the 12-year-old in carry is you know and you know at the time uh uh When we signed and changed, well, not changed our management, when Rich passed and we sort of merged to Maverick management. Of course, you know, Gio Siri was running it and kind of you're down with Give and you might be down with Madge as well.

So knowing how much of a fan that Carrie was, I was like, well, I got to make this shit happen. Because, you know, the group was on the show when Madonna was the couch guest. And so even in touring, like you guys were touring in Australia or whatever and I found that she was there too and I No, you hooked us up. It was that was a great night. We went and saw her in a tiny club. That was the best. And so I, that's all I want. You already delivered. I'm so grateful. So you are you one of those people that like you don't want to meet your idols? I mean, I'm fine with that proximity going to. She did just stand with this experience you had. You have. You have. more than delivered. I'm, I'm grateful. I don't know what else we could do at this point. Yeah, it could be anti-climacted. I get it. I get it. I was reading Carrie, a good, a good buddy of mine, my buddy Craig Jenkins. He interviewed you guys last, it was last year, it was for the,

for the new record. And you were at the end of interview, you were talking about a heart documentary, or not a documentary, I guess, the Ann Wilson. Oh, the biopic, yeah. Yes, biopic, yeah. Oh, snap. Where's that at? What's the status on it? We're casting right now. And as I was telling, as I was telling Craig, it is so hard because, I mean, you say the word biopic and everyone like any music fan just like braces themselves because they're like, oh, God, you know, there's. Walk the line.

Yeah, there's some great examples. And there's some ones where you're just like, how did they cast this person? This is not about music. But I wrote it. And, you know, I hopefully it's a different perspective because I've come up in the Northwest. Like, I love writing about music. I'm trying to make it for music fans as much as for movie fans. But we're casting and we've got to get it right.

So that's where it's at. That's so dope. Good luck with you. Wait, I got one more last one before we go. Did I not hear a rumor that you were considering of turning your book into a series, a TV series? I tried. I made, you've got so far as to make the pilot and then the network didn't pick it up. Wait, there's a pilot?

Yeah, I'll send it to you. It was cool. But I'm Anyway, I'm excited for you because you got this amazing movie coming out. Is it coming out the summer?

All right. All right. Okay, fine. But anyway. It comes out July 2nd and I'm excited. We're excited. I'm not trying to deflect. Wow.

How could you pitch your own movie on your own podcast? I mean, what the heck? Cool, man. Trust me. That's why I got this.

Disney for. I like to thank you for coming on the show. I appreciate it. And, you know, I'm, I'm an admirer of, of, of you guys and your band. And thank you for blessing also on the show. Ladies and gentlemen, Sleger Kidney on Questleaf Supreme. Bill, sir. Congratulations on your success as well. Man, we're all successful. It's fantastic. Yeah. For Tony. Well, it's been an honor to be on the show with you. With the Tony, with a Tony winner. And with all you, thank you. Yeah. Yes.

Thank you for hanging out with us. It was fun. Thank you. All right. Take care. Fontecolo, Sugar Steve, Bill, and Laia. This is Questlove, and we'll see you in the next go around.

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