The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Stephen Hill

Episode Date: February 8, 2026

Music executive Stephen Hill gives Team Supreme an education in radio and talks about being an MTV tastemaker and what it really means to be a "suit." Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, and sell insured the test ones.

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As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Questlove and this is QLS Classic, where we look back at classic Quest Love Supreme episodes. This one was a doozy. This is from December 7, 2016.

However, the night that we recorded this was the night of the presidential elections. It kind of came in the door. thinking that Hillary Clinton had it in the bag and midway through the episode you just hear art and that's because yeah, we found out who the winner was going to be that night

and we didn't know what America was in for. Anyway, Stephen Hill, a good friend of the show, former BT executive and now, you know, just a general level of music, Shares his journey with us and it's an amazing show. Hope you enjoy. This is Stephen Hill on Questlove Supreme Classic from December 7, 2016. Suprema, Submur, Submama Roll Call.

Suprema, Submma, Submina, Submina Roll Call. Supremma, Submina, Submina Roll Call. Supremma, Submma, Submina Roll Call. My name is Questlove. Yeah. You're resident. Yeah. Yes, nis n'i n'i'n' up to the president.

Oh, call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, sub, suprem a role call. Supremma, sub, sub, suprema, road call. My name is Fonte. Yeah. My style so elegant. Yeah. Some even say, yeah.

I'm too intelligent. Whoa, go. Who say that? All right. Sam, suprema, sub. Supremma. Too soon. My rhyme.

My name is Stephen. Yeah. Just like our guest, yeah. The only difference. Yeah. He's more well-dressed. Roll call. Suprema, sub-s-s-supremma roll call.

Supremma, sub-supremma, roll call. Bossbill's my first name. Yeah. Middle name is Earl. Yeah. Waiting for some reruns. Yeah. Of Cedar's world.

Oh, call. Supreme. Superma, S-S-S-S-Sprima role call. Supremma, S-S-S-Sprima role call. My name's Laia. Yeah. And I'm a little sad. Yeah.

Because Michelle Obama gone. Yeah. And I miss her bad. Roll call. Suprema. Suprema. Role call. Supremma.

Subrema. Superma. My name is Stephen. Yeah. I got that bass. Yeah. I'm about to put it. Yeah.

All in your face. Yeah. Roll call. Subrema. So, sub, sub. Surma, roll call. Supreme. Supra, Supraima, Supremma, Roe Call.

Suprema, Supremma, Role Call. Give yourself Sam, ladies. Yes, thank you. Hi, that's good. How you doing, Steve? Still ain't got fired yet. No, no, we're still here. I'm shocked we are still here after all this time.

Ladies and gentlemen, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I am your host, Amir Questlove Thompson. Russell F. Thompson, and we have another great show for you this week. On the show today, we have the president of programming at BET Network's Mr. Stephen Hill. We'll bring him on in a minute, but before we do that, let's check in quickly with Team Supreme. How are you doing, Fonte? Man, I'm good, man. I had some foolishness jump off at the crib today. Yeah, what? Some foolishness jump off at the crib today.

What happened? My uncle got shot. What? And so I got to go home and, like, see. what's up he was shot in the stomach exited through his back and so yeah just another day in life my brother how y'all doing forget about how are you doing how's your uncle doing right well I mean he's he's well he's in critical condition and he's um he's on a respirator I think and so he had a surgery and now he has to have another surgery because it got uh what was it hit is um it took some of They had to take some of the small intestine, I think, and it hits some of it, but it exit, which is a good thing if it exits. But if it stays, that's something like, you're totally fucked if it stays.

But they had to take some of his small intestine, but he's 64, five. And he already has, like, some other health issues, so it's a lot. So, but not, but other than that, I mean, you know, this praise up for my uncle, you know what I mean. But I'm good, though, man. Everything else is, everything else is cool. Well, it's just that Fonte is so spot on with his dead pan humor. You were just waiting for the punchline. My first response was to laugh.

Yeah, my uncle got shot. Yeah, I was like, oh, wait a minute. No, I mean, it's, yeah, you got. No laughing matters. But no, man, he's, praise up for him. But other than that, I'm cool. You know what I mean? I'm in New York City.

Okay. How's your family, Steve? They're not shot. I have not been shot. Okay, no. Just, you know, I want to make sure everyone's, Family's okay. That's good.

That's good. Bill, why are you? You guys cool? I'm fine. Yo, everybody is alive, you know, and excited about this new year. Yes. That's what it is. This new year.

That's what we call it. This new year. And I'm excited. What is this new year going to bring us? We don't know. I'm going to ask. I'm glad Stephen Hills here. No, I'm just saying, you know, January is special for you and I.

That's right. It's special for you and I. Yeah. Well, it's not here. Because as a woman when you turn another age, without no babies and no husband. It's a little different. But Questlove, what are you going to do for your birthday?

You're going to be like, how old you? I'm always out of the country. January 20, by the way, if anybody wants to sing gifts. Here's the thing, though, because usually around inauguration time, my birthday falls on MLK Day and inauguration day. So people just naturally forget it's my birthday. And one time when I turned 30, I thought, oh, okay, you remember Okay, Lyle and I go way back to Philadelphia,

so the tasty treats collective. Yes. I thought, like, Yamin and Stacy were, like, set me up for, like, a 30 birthday baths. They were like, yeah, we used to spend next Sunday because, you know, it's special night on Monday. And, you know, I thought it was my birthday, so I wore a suit.

I was all happy and walked in the room, like, surprise. There was no one in the room. I don't want to embarrass myself in front of my girls. I was just like, ah, they probably were the VIP, so let's go. And we win a VIP. and then I was like oh y'all really wanted me to DJ tonight and there was like three people

there and I was like that's fucked up it's a story of January 20th in our birthday is what it is not even when Obama got inaugurated not one person remembered it was my birthday except for my mom my mom so you ain't got to worry about that though but I mean it was a historic day so I forgave

that's almost like you know what man I had something similar having to deal with me that was almost like I was married once in a form of life and And our anniversary just so happened to fall on the same day that Michael Jackson died. Oh, no. And so we went out. Yeah, we went out.

And we went out one night. I used to throw a party downtown Raleigh. And it was just a regular, just a dance party. And so Mike died that day. And so my party was on Thursday. It was always on Thursday night. And so Mike died that day. And so it was also our anniversary.

And so my wife at the time wanted to go out. And she wanted to come with me to party. I said, okay, cool, we'll come out, we'll celebrate whatever. But Mike had died. And so I'm fucking Bill, boss Bill, he had a gig somewhere. In Atlanta. He was in Atlanta. And so he damn crying and shit.

I'm on the phone. I'm on the phone fucking like just cry. I'm like, dude, why am I crying over Michael Jackson? But I was fucked up. So we go out now. So we come to the party. Everybody shows up. They got their black high water's on with the white socks and the loafers and everything.

And so we just playing Mike all night going in and my wife didn't really get that much attention. So then later on, as we divorced, as you probably could gather, later on, she brought that up as a bone of contention. She was like, I remember we went out that night and it wasn't even our anniversary. Y'all was celebrating Michael Jackson. And I just remember telling her, I was like, yo. She tried to blame. She was celebrating the Michael's life as well, no, no, not that that was a catalyst for our divorce, but just as to say, well, I felt I wasn't, I didn't get my attention that night. And I was just figured it out. And I was just like, Listen, that's Michael Jackson.

Like, I mean, we'll hopefully have other anniversaries. I mean, we're not. But there's only one Michael Jackson. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, you didn't make thriller? I mean, you brought me a son into the world. Okay, cool. Like, right, you bought it.

You gave me a son. All right. That shit wasn't off the wall, though. So that was kind of, you know, you could see wire bearish. Wow. Maybe didn't last. But we're great friends now and it's cool. But no, I hear you.

Whenever big events happen, you kind of can't compete with that. And you just got to accept it. Wait, I didn't know that I can compare real-life relationship matters to classic albums. Look at my face light up right now. I had all kind of comedy jokes.

My mother, this dinner was okay, but, you know, it wasn't no purple ring. You know, I'm saying? You know, it might have been love sexy. You know what I mean? The chicken was real love sexy. Yo, wait, you got to announce this amazing. laughed that we got in the room because I don't think we

said about our guests up in here riding with us. Let's introduce our illustrious guest. Yes, I think we're sure. Yes, let's do it. Oh, don't make me do it. The man. Because I know you're excited. It's like the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack of people. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and

girls, the man who has shaped the narrative of the first black TV channel in our nation. Yeah. The man that gave us the real Prince tribute. Hello. The man that kept Teen Summit alive for a little bit, because I'm sure he was there for that long,

gave us Cedar, the man that rap city, Joe Claire, Chris Thomas, Rachel Caribbean Rhythms. Oh, B-E-T-JAM, B-E-T-Sole, real husbands of Hollywood, Stephen Hill's here, y'all. Oh, thank you.

Wow. I mean, you see it brought a sweat. I appreciate that. I can see you. Can we call you, Mr. President? So you got to call me something because there's other Stephen here. So we got to figure that out. No, we don't call him Steve. No, he's Sugar Steve. You want to know why we call him Sugar Steve? You can hold on to that name tightly. Do you want to

know why we call him Sugar Steve? I think I do. Short version, short version. I do. Short version. He has diabetes. There you go. So he's down. You can laugh. We laugh about it all. Okay. Okay. All right, we're five minutes in and so far we have a guy who has diabetes and somebody whose uncle got shot. This is the feel good show of the year. And might I just say, Mr. Hill, congratulations on being the most successful radio person ever to go to TV. I mean, you know, people have dreams, some of us, and you have lived it. So, congratulations for making out the radio storms.

I appreciate it. Thank you. So you say that's a hard transition, by the way. Yep. Excuse me for calling you this when niggas say that has successful TV careers. I can't wait to get back to radio. Really? You want to go back to radio? I love radio. Come on, man.

No, no, no. I grew up. I grew up. I wanted to be Donnie Simpson when I grew up. I grew up in DC and Dony Simpson. Or do you want to go back to the idea of radio? I want to go back. I want to have Stephen Love Supreme. Yeah.

That's what I'd like to have at some point in time. So the idea of radio, the idea of music and personality and having discussions about music, that's what it was when I was in radio. I loved that stuff. You want to know something? I'd spent two days in D.C. previously. You know, I love the fact that Howard Station, the state. is still... The best station in the world.

Yes, I said it loud. W-H-U-R is the best radio station in the world. That's because it's independent. Independent. It's not owned by one of the conglomerates. Are they the last Mohican and a black music in the United States? Close to it.

Or besides Stevie Warner's. That has such good positioning on your radio dial. That has everybody else is 80-something. Well, that's college. College is when you're below 92.3, if you're below 92.3, you're either publicly funded or college. Above that is where you start playing with the money. That's amazing.

Yeah. So. H-U-R is not owned by any of the big people who own 500 radio stations. So they can clear channels. Yep. They aren't, so they aren't beholden to any contracts to play this certain song this many times a day so the artists will show

up at their station. Why do you have these romantic visions of radio as it was in your childhood? Because it was that way when I was in radio. That's all. Like, I missed, it's like, I'd be like the Rip Van Wend. of radio. Like I got out of it a certain time, then fell asleep for 20-some odd years

and then go back and expect it to be exactly the same. But it wouldn't be. Let me tell you some. First of all, my voice would be a tape from another city. Yeah. You'd be in a computer. Well, here's a question. Would you go back to terrestrial radio? Would you try satellite or a

Pandora? I would try anybody who would have me and let me play great music and talk to great folks. Well, what is great music, Stephen Hill? That's a fascinating statement you made there. Well, this is the thing, because I know the thing is that, you know, I understand that it's, I mean, this is almost like a relationship. Like, do you think with your heart or do you think with your brain? And, you know, lately I've been accused of this.

Like, Kat's always kind of joke like, oh, you're such a suit. You're a suit. Meaning. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah.

No, just, well, I'll tell you why after you, after you fell on the table. You think I'm a suit? Yeah, I think you think like a suit, yeah. Oh, okay, that's interesting. But why do people call you a suit, though? It's weird that my suit is accusing me of being a suit. You're the one of y'all in a suit. Y'all both got the same sweatshirt on.

So you get the suit, where does that come from? What do they mean by that? Here's the thing. Well, number one, I'm, see, I don't, I get offended. the idea of me being over-calculating or overthinking really didn't come into play until like, I think like a pitchwork review of the tipping point. And then slowly,

and only because pitchfork was such the emperor's new close of record criticism that other critics would see what pitchfork was saying. And then they would start, that was like the forecast. Right. And then slowly between like 2005, in 2008, I started seeing, well, you know, he overthinks everything and da-da-da-da-da-da, which, I mean, okay, granted, like, it's, that's lazy journalism. Well, you just see what they say, man, you paraphrase it.

But then I personally got offended because I just felt like, why is the black guy, like, why do I have to be accused of thinking too much? But the thing is that I feel like life is science. Like, you're either going to go on science or you're going to go on faith. Okay. Christianity or science. And I'm not saying I don't believe in faith, but I believe in science. I believe in numbers and I believe in occurrences and I believe in circles and I believe in patterns. Yeah, patterns.

And somehow, I don't know. I feel as though it might read less authentic if it's planned ahead of time as opposed to. People just like the narrative of the spontaneity of magic happening off the fly. Like a guy like Prince, and this is from a, coming from a scientist that is listened to at least, I'll say that I put in a good 150 hours of listening to Prince rehearsals and, I mean, stuff that the average guy would run out on patience of listening to. I mean, George Clinton's greatest quote about Prince is like, damn, man, even that cat rehearses his spontaneity. You know, and it's just like, to me, I mean, that that might. seem sui, like

the idea of over-preparing and that sort of thing. So it reads less authentic because it's scientific and not just... I think it would be... That doesn't read scientificity. That just reads of a person just putting in the work for the craft. You know what I'm saying? I think

suity would be all right, we're going to get Max Martin to produce the new Roots album. Like that would be a suit thing. You know what I mean? If you're going to... Let's get Scott starts to do the first single for our next record. Oh, wait. the 10 points.

Yeah, but Scott Storch was a member of the roots. Right. Scott Storz did the first single things fall apart. But he hadn't been a member of the roots for. Yeah, but Scott Storz did the most loved Roots song of all time. But, okay, Scott Storch being considered a member of the Roots, I'm trying to think of a great analogy. It's like, he never left.

Like, the thing is that you never leave the roots. Malik. Okay, so is Kalee still a root? Kalee. Was she her root? I don't know, she was with a, for like six months. Wow, I thought I knew it all.

See, but the thing is, is that the roots are like Steely Dan. You know, it's, it's Fagan and Becker. And then a bunch of session players. Right. But I understand the romantic attachment to members. Like, why do I love the revolution? Like, Prince is that better, more technical musicians, but my heart's always with the revolution.

Yeah. And I understand people's attachments to it. But, I mean, on the revolution. real like i mean james poyser has been a root since do you want more but really hasn't been officially well what i say that scott wasn't uh hasn't been a route for a long time is like he wasn't really a constant presence on the records like he's always been just his yeah but i mean scott was there for ain't saying nothing new and you got me and then adrenaline scott's storage is all over things fall apart just formulas you're basically saying that you're not a suit just because

you have a formula that you think would work. Yeah, but I never went out like, hey, let's get a hit with Scott Stores. It was just like the suit, the sooth thought concerning the tipping point, the suit thought was fall back a mirror and let's do something. Well, let's do something normal only because Jimmy I. Veen was like he really didn't get and didn't have the time to absorb and come and observe and all that stuff. Like he's dealing with 19 other platinum artists. So it was just like, let's just do the most normal.

I got to put my two cents on Star. Which was my favorite song. Some other joins. But really, it was just like, that was my most hands off. Okay, what do I do and let you guys do the work? But yeah, I don't think there's anything calculating on that level. So anyway, Stephen. I'm sorry, I'm still trying to figure out who the Jeff Skunk Baxter of the Roots is.

Oh man, that would be Would it be Kirk? Should I figure out who Jeff Skunkbster is? Doobie Brother and... Oh, Doobie. The idea... It was a Steely Dan reference. Steely Dan had at least 19 revolving musicians

around the planets of Fagan and Becker and a few other people. And you learn you're just a surf as Steely Dan fan. Okay, thank you guys. No, but this is what the show is for. It's like watching y'all watch Michael Jackson tapes over there, all right? I could do that forever.

I could do that forever. Is he your favorite? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. It's tough when you have, it's tough when it's Prince in the room. It's tough. You talk about practicing spontaneity. I didn't know that much about Prince, but Michael Jackson felt like he rehearsed a lot of spontaneity.

Like there was always, whenever it was like, can I come down there and sing? You know, it was the same point at the same show. I assure you everyone, probably maybe George Clinton's P-Funk mom because they were too hard to control. But I assure you, I've seen repetition, even with like, listen to Coltrane outtakes, his entire Temple University series of like nine shows right after Love Supreme came out. Even his, his scaling of solo's worth the same level. So it's like I think anyone that great just, you know, has a pattern they follow due to hours of practice. But that's funny because anybody that great, most fans just don't know that they have a pattern.

And so maybe the people who call you a suit, just, you know, know you behind the scenes so well. But I don't mind being called a suit. Okay. Well, cool. Then suit. Or I don't know. Wait, I had to look to the left to see what Bill's response was.

So, Steve, back to you. And your humble beginnings and radio. Can I assume that you kind of, your curiosity about radio started with, like, making up your own radio programs at the house. tape recorders and absolutely like west left absolutely i just say same thing i was grew up in dc where i thought the radio i didn't realize it then but the radio

there was so crazy great the wpgc which eventually came an urban station but it used to be a station where you'd hear earth went and fire next to barry manelow next to the jackson five like it was it was just all this is a pop station was this like piti green dewey hues was this yeah melvin l o l o l was the

oh well was the station i'd listen to in the car in my dad's Mustang. When we drive through Southeast, you know, during the weekend. Melvin Lindsay was a little later, I think. Melvin Lindsay a little later. Yeah. Yeah. But Peter Green was around. Okay.

Bobby, I can't think of Bobby's last name. Bobby Burner. I can't have to Bobby, something to Burner. All right. Well, explain. Where did you grow up? Was it? D.C.

Southeast. South East. Yo, that's the only part of D. D.C. That's still not 100% gentrified yet. They're getting close, though. They are getting very close. They got a bus boys.

The poets in there now. Once they come a car, And across the bridge, it's going to be an issue. Y'all. Describe specifically what black radio was like. It was AM. It was WOL. It was AM? It was AM.

W.O.K. Your visions and romantic visions of what radio was has an AM frequency to it? Yeah. At the beginning. Now it's FM, but at the beginning where I learned to love music, it was absolutely AM radio. WOL, W.O.K. W.E.E.N. for a pop station, PGC, I think, was FM by then.

It was actually AM and FM, but it was sound coming out of my father's 1966 Mustang fake convertible. You know, it had like the cool green color, but there was a black, but it wasn't really a convertible, it made it look like it was convertible. Right. Yeah, that's the kind of the Chrysler 300 of its time.

Exactly. Exactly. This is Questlove Supreme War and Pandora, and if you're just tuning in, we're chatting with our guests, the head of programming, BT Network's Stephen Hill. Okay, I guess you're the first guest that was born on the far east of the United States

where a lot of our Midwestern guests told stories of just being one radio station and maybe two hours of soul music. Plus it's still the stop. Remember, D.C. is below the Mazin D.C.s line and very black. So it was one of those rare cities. Like, it was really shocking a city. That had four black radio stations and still does. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. So Weem wasn't third black state. WPGC wasn't black then. That was the pop station. But that's the one that would play Barry Manilow and Earthwind of Fire and Wild Cherry and... Oh, man. So it makes a more... OLL and OOK were AM.

And then OOK became FM 100.3. You could trust radio back then. Oh, yes. Absolutely. I trusted it with my heart. Absolutely. So were you a DJ at heart or just like you wanted to be a personality? I just wanted to be around music as much as I possibly could.

Like, it was, I'm sure everybody had that experience of getting in the car. And, like, the first thing you do is turn on the radio. Like, the biggest, the biggest thrill I ever had is when we got a car that we could turn the radio on before the engine came on. I remember that. There was a Volkswagen that came out. I was such a thing. Mom got a Volkswagen, yeah. And the radio would turn on.

Now, this caused challenges, of course, when you go to listen to the radio in the car. Sometimes I would just go outside and listen to radio in the car without going anywhere and then leave the radio on and the battery be out. You'd be in trouble. Stevie! Stevie! You've been in this card? No. But yeah, so that's the first part of music.

It was Motown. It was James Brown. James Brown was my first musical crush ever. Like that was my first idol. Like when you saw James Brown on TV move and he was in the middle of his going from process to Afro phase. So say it loud. He was transitioning. He was transitioning.

Say it loud was, I think I was like seven or eight years old, but that meant something to me. I didn't know what black and White was at that point in time. Right. But I knew something about that song, spoke, spoke to me. Were you attending concerts by this point or? First concert was July 2nd, 1970. Temptations.

Temptations right after the, right after the, psychedelic check. Yeah, it was after one album after that, Ball of Confusion. Ball of Confusion was on the album. That's the sky's the limit, right? I got to check. I have to check.

Was that like Howard? Did you go see that? No, no. I was actually, came out to, my dad had to work in LA for, the first half of that year, so we came out at the end of June. I remember this very well. What did your parents do for? My dad worked at the Census Bureau. He was a statistician

for years. And mom was, mom raised us and then was a part-time teacher. Music teacher. Yeah, so that was my parents. Your mom was a music teacher? She was. That explains it. She was taught piano. Not to me, but she taught piano.

Did you ever want to learn? I did, but I had never had the patience for it. That was the problem. And I, it's, I have very few regrets in my entire life, that's the biggest regret. I didn't stay with the piano, that I didn't stay with the drums. I tried. But I just didn't have the patience at 11 and 12 years old to stick with it. It's the biggest regret.

But I learned how to play some things about my own, right? So I can play the first part of Purple Rain on a piano. I can play McArthur Park. Oh, wait a minute. Really? I can play the first part of McArthur Park on the piano. And I used to be able to play father's song. Really?

I used to be able to play father's song well. But the first part of McArthur's Park, that's hilarious. Record shopping, Steve and I discovered on the 45, we had a radio promo of McArthur's Park. What you have to know about McArthur's Park is that... By Donna Sommel. Or, no, no, no, Richard Harris. Richard Harris.

Richard Harris, right. Yeah. So, MacArthur's part is sort of like a hell-marry throw into the world of radio, which each song should be about three minutes and 30 seconds. And the idea, of telling radio programmers to let this seven minute, it's about, seven, it's 707, seven, seven or something like seven or something like that.

So it's very unusual. One, for a 45 to have a seven minute song, but the actual artwork of the 45 of McArthur's Park is more about the record label telling you the listener that, you know, sometimes you have to let songs breathe and get to. you and you know what's a seven-minute song sit down and absorb this music like i've never seen a selling point of such an epic song and and of course you know what is mcgarth's part really about i mean just the idea of wasting cake in the rain you've heard macarthur's part like you know i haven't you know see hear me being quiet over here i was just going to act like i did

well you've heard the dog's summer part is melting and the dog it's the same as the summer version just like years earlier. Oh, the disco. Okay. Okay. Okay. I got it. Because I was sweating over here. Written by Jimmy Webb. Okay. If not, I'm going to Google it now. My dad used to do that

song in his show and, yeah, I just wondered about leaving cake out in the rain. So it's funny thing about that. Every time, because it was my mother's favorite song for a very long time. Something about that song really talked to her and I tried to figure out what it was. I couldn't figure what it. But I always had the idea of

a cake out in the rain and I could see it vividly that there's lime green. No, it's lime green with some kind of strawberry. And the icing just melting down. It's such a visual to me. But that's the markler's a great song, though. I mean, Jimmy Webb, I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think he's the same guy to wrote Wichita Limeon.

Yes. I think that's like one of my favorite songs. He's a great song writer. I don't think, did Richard Harris ever sing any song beside that? Like Richard Harris, the actor. By the way, Richard Harris, the actor, sang McArthur Parton. The problem was that was on a 45

and trying to get seven minutes worth of sound on a 45. It's a possible. If you breathe on it wrong, all of a sudden, yeah. I remember my mom had the Dell stay in my corner and that was like six and a half. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, how do they get on it? That's a good song.

Let's hear for long 45s and good mastering. All right, so Steve, where do you at least get the curiosity on how to enter radio. Like, was this dreams you had as a kid or just this come to you as a teenager

or an adult? Mostly as a teenager, but really, I mean, it really turned around my first year in college. My first year, I went to Brown. And, oh, because this will tie back. So Brown University had a radio station, has a radio station, sorry, WBRU, but it is 95.5.

So even though it is a college radio station, Brown. It is in the, it is in the, you got to make that money sector of the spectrum. Right. Right. It's not a college below 92.3. So it was a commercial radio station and it was rock or alternative rock or whatever you call it, call it back in 84. But on Sunday, it was the 360 degree black experience and sound. If you hashtag that, you've used up all 140.

It's done. I got to tell you a story about BRU. Yeah? It's a little dishonest, but I'll say that after a few, a lot of root shows. at Brown University because we would frequent a lot of the upper echeline colleges and get that money. Sometimes at these radio interviews, the DJs would sort of just let me rummage through. No, I know where this is going, by the way, because it's still on, it's still in the, I know where this is going. I know where this is going. Okay. I'll say that I have a lot of WBRU records.

records in my possession. In Princeton and Harvard. If they are BRU records in the upper left corner, it says R&B. You wrote that? It has a date on them. If you turn them around, you'll see the writing on the back and they'll say, we used to call it marking records. And so we just go through like one, you know, the side one, side two.

And so you probably have some of the mark. I have a lot of your records. So would you like mark what the good joints were? Like mark what the cuts were? And we always try to figure out like, okay, that's a single so we're going to mess with that. But here's what should be the next single. And so we would go through every like all the like. Imagine that because that doesn't happen today.

No. No. So all right. What is the process of because I know how important college radio was to the development of a new artist, especially in the 80s and in the 90s. So, you know, they would try to woo you just as important or as much as a top five station or, you know, like the local conglomerate. So give us an example of an unheard of talent coming to you first at Brown You. Okay. All right. So a rather a rather greasy-haired gentleman came down. I can see it. It came down. I still to this day don't know how he got into the studio. But he's like, hey, I got this group. I got this group, right? And I got this group. And this record. And you know the Jackson 5 was there.

Jeff Fart, but they're just like the Jackson Five. I think this is really going to blow up. Good for you. I know where this is going. You know exactly where it's going. And I swear to God, he came in on a Sunday because that was the 360 degree black experience of sound.

And they're like, oh, okay, we'll give it a shot. We'll give it a shot. Because, you know, people would do that. If you can get through and you're not going to kill us, we'll play the record. We're good. And it was a new edition candy girl. The other MJ.

It was, it was Maurice. Michael, George. Oh, I'm thinking of Michael Johnson. No, Maurice. Maurice Starr, right? Yeah, I can't think it was a real name. That was, oh, look at me. No, Johnson's his last name.

Well, I'm thinking of Michael Johnson. Yeah, Johnson crew. But that was his partner. Was it not? That's his brother. Okay, okay. In this day and age, a lot of people approach me about, you know, check this out. This gentleman included, you know.

And maybe my record is probably zero and nine million for at least the patients to actually take said product and press play and listen to it and absorb it. But in radio, I mean, how do you know who's worth listening to or, I mean, do you have to accept everyone's, like, if a person comes to you and they seem rather shady or whatnot, do you still give that product a chance? So I try to, again, I'm big on that not getting killed thing, right? Because that's happening when people walk in like, yo man, you're going to listen to what? Yeah, I was about to say.

Like, what if you don't like a product? Oh, I'm sorry. You try to never listen to it in front of them. You always try to get it and like, hey, can't listen to it now. I'm going to listen to it later. You avoid that danger right then. Seriously, you try to, unless you know the person, if you know somebody and you can give honest feedback, you want to be able to absorb it because we've all heard things where the

first time we hear it's like, eh, that's not working. But by the third time, you understand or you feel a different way about it. And if you really respect the music, you're going to give it that two or three times before you come to that judgment, before you're ready to share that judgment. That's probably the best way to put it. And so even in college, we'd sit around, it was more like there were more people.

There'd be a music meeting, we take all the albums, and everybody was assigned like two or three albums, and then they'd come back and say, okay, here the cuts we should play on 360. We'd black experience the sound. Okay, we did call it 360. Just sometimes it's fun to just keep running it all the way down. I see.

Who did Don't Go? Don't Go, don't go. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. They tried to be like the time, right after the time came out. Oh. Ozone? No, no, no.

Dream boy, dream boy. Dream boy. Dream boy. So, so. Like, you can hear the activator dripping on the floor as they're singing. Yes. Yes. There were a couple of groups that came out like the time.

That struck my head because that's one of those songs I remember that was that we played on, like DBIRU was one of the first people to play that song. And it was huge. You gave them a chance? It was huge. It was. It was huge. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific. Bitcoin artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much. luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to thanks dad on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. We're here with our guest, President of Programming, BET Networks, Stephen Hill. We're talking about his humble beginnings going to college radio back in the 80s. Did y'all have like any bare, like no holes, barges, whatever, black soul?

Yes. Okay, so whatever. Yes. Yeah, college radio, but it was college radio, but it was college radio, but we could play whatever we wanted to, as long as you didn't curse, obviously. So did it hurt when you had to leave that situation? Well, I guess it didn't hurt because, you know, more money and commercial radio, but that life is different college radio.

You only get three to four years to run it, right? You do? Yeah. Yeah, I was there for, I did it all four years. Because, you know, it was one of the things you go on campus. You go on campus, like back then they had all the, come join the press club, right for the paper. Come join the, you know, the poker club. And what year, what period was this between what?

Brown was 80 to 84 for me. Wow. Eight to 84. So I remember where I, so the cool thing is. Like, I remember, like, I remember where I was when 1999 came out. The day that, the day that Thriller came out. Oh, man. November 30th, 1982.

I went straight from there to Music 142 with Professor Clemen was her name. I remember just having an album just like this. I'm like, I'm going to try to pay attention in this class. I'm going to try. I'm going to try, but God. So you were one of those people that were, like, cut school for a record or lose sleep the night before for a record? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I remember being mad because, because, do you know the date? What date did Triumph come out? It came in the fall of 80. I don't know what the date is. It was September because I remember being in fifth grade. It was definitely September of 80. Right. So I had just gotten to Brown.

I remember going to like my first or second dance and Shannon Harris. I remember how, fine, fine, fine, Shannon Harris. She had, I saw it, I'll say, wait, is that Michael? Hold on. She had the triumph out of it. I left the party. Really? I left the party to try to go to the record store before it, because it was early.

I left to try to get to the record store before it closed like 1 o'clock in the morning until I could get triumph. I was mad that somebody had a Jackson album before I did. Didn't you hit that film when someone had a record before you did? Oh, oh, man, you just took me back with that. You described my life right there. I used to cry. My aunt had Ask Rufus by Rufus and Shaka Khan.

Yeah. And for some reason, even there's like an asterisk mark when I think of the Rufus discography, even though I was six, I was still musically an adult in that household. So she flaunt it like, like what 23 year old person is like, Amir, look what I got. And she put on that midnight. And I was like mad. I was angry.

See them with anger. Like she would flaunt when she got records before I did. I hate it when someone got something. The family is worse. The worst trick I ever played by my brother, because I love my brother. and cook food, right? My brother is my guy. But when I was nine and he was six, so we got the first two Jackson five records on the same day, right? Dana Ross presents and ABC. And I, because I want the newer one, wanted ABC. I wanted, so we go into the record store, I can remember, I swear

I got to know exactly what it was. It was Pan Marr and Southeast D.C. It's on, on Pennsylvania Avenue up near the Maryland line. We go in there and my little non-year-old self-go. I was, hey, okay, let's go try to find them. And we were both trying to find ABC. I said, hey, maybe if you go look under, it's filed under the, under ABC. Where the artists are listed ABC and I'm there. I said, you go look over there.

That's bad, Steve. That was wrong. You misled your brother. I did. I did. I did. He's forgiven. So he had his own collection.

You had your own collection? No, he stopped after that one. He stopped. Like, that was just like, I don't know it was brother competitive, but he wasn't the media. He's the sports. guy. He loves sports. Oh, okay. You know, he's just now, like,

he's the guy I use as the test to find out what songs are really good and really going to hit, because... The idiot factor? Oh, complete. And I don't know... Of course, you never tell the idiot factor that they're the idiot factor, but... And I keep him away, like, he wants tickets to shows and stuff, I can get that, but I don't want him to get anywhere close

because I use him as the test. Like, is this, you know, he's the guy who's sitting in the back of the car with the kids singing happy. Like, he's... He's the guy. He's that guy. I know if it, you know, Always be my baby as his favorite Mariah Carey song. Like, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, he's the, he's the, he's the, he's the, he's the, he's the, he's the way. So to this day, is him as your litmus test. Like, what do you think about this? Yeah, so I'm starting to use his kids now.

No, kids are your A&R. That's, that's, really like, yes, the kids are the best A&R. Because they're honest. Yes. Nah, well, I want, what I say they're the best A&Rs. It just means if your kids can sing it, that's when you know, it doesn't mean if they don't like it that it's not good or it still won't jam. But if your kids are singing it, yeah. That's... So, wait, I won't go back to... So do you remember any of the... Any of the albums you took from...

I'm sorry, you borrowed from Brown University? Any of them? Oh, he's got to call me. Am I, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just curious to them. You know what? Because I was heavily looking into samples and things, I believe that I was more given access to the jazz...

Oh, yeah. Sort of the 70s jazz stuff. So I know, like, there's, um, I think maybe the... The Virgo Red album from Roy Ayers. You know what? Tony Williams' ego, those two records. Like, I took a lot of the 70s jazz, jazz stuff. Like, that's in my collection.

And the cool thing is I go back and visit every once in a while. And sometimes it let me go on the air for a minute, which is just I have such a rush after that. But the albums are still on the wall. The albums are still have the album on the wall. Haven't been used for years, but they still keep them up there. I love that.

Really? Yeah. Wow, I gotta make a return. Find a new home for it. So how do you go from, how is a person that loves music, you know, want to be on radio, how do you get from radio to TV? Like, how did you? Oh, yeah.

How do you go there? Was that your major? I assume that was your major in college. My major was applied math and economics. Oh, my God. That's brilliant. That's not how to tell people to do that when they go to college. It was applied math and economics.

That's brilliant. I spent more time at the radio station. Love you, mom, love you dad, but yeah, I got out. But I did graduate. I get to graduate. Go ahead, ask it. No, I was just going to say, don't you fine, no, because people always ask, I was a communications major. So it's not like you really wanted to switch places with me because I always tell people, young people, you know what?

Be a business major, economics, and then just have an internship. Learn radio that way because you're really not going to learn a lot of it in the classroom. So you're perfect, right? Yeah, I was a communications major, too. I was a communications major too. I'd say the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Internship is where you learn everything. Okay, but isn't that V, like, fall back on this just in case it doesn't work? No. No. For communications majors, really, I mean, you do a lot of stuff in class, but really the only way to learn how to do it. You got to do it. You have to actually do it. And be around people who would do it.

Right, right. So, like, I was a communications major. Yeah, I did. The thing of it, so was too re-year. Yeah, I did three and a half years at the college radio station. You know, I worked on television shows at the campus TV station. And that was the only way we could learn how to do stuff because it was to actually do it. What was your major, Steve? journalism I actually interned at DC 101 for a while I went to Maryland so I was I interned

well you got DC roots was a was a was Howard Stern there when you were there no no I was with the grease man okay I haven't heard that name in a long time who's the grease man oh my he was the Howard Stern down in DC basically in the late 80s the wild morning guy and well it wasn't the morning show but he was just like he was just that you know so crazy grease man at least in some circles is best known for the horrible, horrible joke that I will tell if you want me to, but it's really, it's a horrible , originally offensive. Please.

To who? Tell it. It was around the time that they were talking about MLK getting a holiday. Okay. Do you remember? Do you remember? So it was like, so let me get this straight. Mok is going to get a holiday for MOK. If I had known that, I'd have shot four more and gotten a whole week off.

Wow. Oh, no. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the grease man. That was the grease man. The record, Fonte is the one laughing. That must have been the day Donnie Simpson got his $50 million contract. I'm just saying.

DC Radio has had it was, it was, was, was just a variety. Howard Stern was on DC 101 before he went national before he came to New York. Like he cut his teeth there. Greasman was kind of like, Howard Sternish, as you probably tell by that. By the time I got there was, I don't know,

89 or something like that. And it was all computer generated playlists and, you know, nothing. I was like, well, I'm too late to this game. It was past my romanticized version of radio. Yeah. So what was your first radio station outside of? W-I-L-D, Boston.

It was an AM daytimeer station. What an AM daytime station is, we used to call it solar-powered. There's this crazy, I'm sorry to have you anywhere, there's this crazy rule the FCC had that certain, because they were trying to make, when radio, they were trying to make radio grow, People were allowed to have local stations, but there were these super stations that went everywhere at night,

like W.O.W.O. out of Fort Wayne, Indiana. I don't know. How I remember that. W.B.A.L. out of of Baltimore. There were these super stations that jacked their power up at night so they could be heard nationwide because radio was, you know, when they were trying to build the radio business. Really? And so every other, every other, if you were on that frequency, you had to get off that frequency at night. So WBAL had the frequency 1090 out of Baltimore. And so at night, we were WILD. We had to get off. So we were only allowed to be up from sunrise to sunset. Oh, wow. Right?

So that was my first radio station. And the short version of how I got there, I got out of Brown University. I tried to get a job in radio. I couldn't do it. I failed miserably. A year and a half later, a guy named Robert Harley was sick. He was during Christmas vacation at WBRU. They called me.

He said, can you come in for four hours? I said, sure, I haven't been on the radio in a year and a half. I'll come down. But as I did always, I prepared and made sure I knew what was going on. When did a four-hour show, thought nothing other. Went back to my job where I was teaching at Groton School. Two months later, I got a call saying, is this Stephen Hill? Yes.

I happened to be driving through Providence, Rhode Island, a couple of months ago, heard you on the radio. And want to know if you want to come in and I got a part-time gig at W ILD. Elroy Smith, who is a wonderful program director. My former boss. He was your former boss? He was my boss. When he left Chicago, he came to Philly. That's right.

Yeah. Yes, it was a morning show. Elroy Smith. was the program director, WI.I.D. Yeah, you know El Roy Smith. El Roy Smith was a program director. He was after Kobe. Yeah.

Yeah. At W I told me, like, my career, like, if Robert Hartley doesn't get sick, if I'm not home to answer the phone because there were no cell phones at the time, right? If I don't, you know, if I can't go down there and do those four hours, we're not sitting here because I found out Elroy only did that drive twice in five years. Man, and he just so happened to catch you. And it happened to be, I hadn't been on the radio for a year and a half. I was on there.

four hours, he happened to be driving through, track me down. And if it's not for that, I'm somewhere either teaching or applying math and economic. Now, as a DJ, did you have total control of what you played? What? Oh, no. No, so what year is this? What year is this?

What year is this? No, what's college is over? What year is this? This is a spring of 86. Okay. Spring of 86. And this point, the W ILD, this is like. WILD is it.

Now, even though it's a daytime station, it's a real, it's a real commercial. It's a real money commercial radio station. Okay, got you back up a little bit because you said your previous experience was a fail. How was that a fail? Which one? You said when I tried to get a job in a radio when I left Brown. Right. In 84, but I couldn't, I could.

Oh, you couldn't. I thought you meant like it was just a bad experience. Oh, no, no, no. A job as a DJ? I couldn't get a job. I couldn't get a job in radio or record labels or any place. Oh, man. Back then, what were the requirements to, to, to,

woo over a radio programmer that would bring you aboard. Like, what was required? I don't know, because I didn't get a job. No, seriously, I don't know. I thought, you know, I don't know. I think it was just talking on the air naturally that appealed to Elroy. Like, I knew the music back then. It was good to have some kind of radio voice, and thanks to my mother, who has the deeper

voice of my parents. I happen to get it. So I think it's just that and being able to. to relate and being able to, and he didn't know then that I knew or was obsessed with music, but I think that helped in the interview as I got to grow at W ILD. I mean, I would think, at least in my head, or, you know, and this is a very naive, you know, thought, like, I would figure that, okay, well, I would want my people to be knowledgeable about music and all that stuff, because I don't even know what the criteria for today is, but I would

think, like, there were at least some standards 30 years ago, whereas, like, Like, you know. You know, it's funny. I think it helps. When did that era end where the radio DJ was the Frankie Cropper? Frankie Crooked. Yeah, the tastemaker.

Well, what you're saying when did it end? I think the real challenge was when they changed the ownership rules of radio. Right? It was 96. Yeah, the telecommunications. They changed it. That ruined everything. Two FMs, two AMs.

That's all you could own. That's all you could own even in a market, right? And so now people were buying radio stations. They have to service all this debt. And so to service that debt, you've got to play commercials. And to play more commercials, you have to have less talk. And so the less talk you have, the more commercials you can play. And so you play the music and you play just a little bit.

Hey, that was the Jacksonville, shake your body down the ground. We'd be right back after this. You get in and out. So you play more music. Like, it was just servicing debt. It feels like the way record companies with, like Warner Brothers seemed to be like our artist development and movement. And then all of a sudden, you got to service your debt. So you've got to sell more records.

And sometimes you don't get two or three shots at it. making it big. So Questlove Supreme would be their worst nightmare because we're more talk, less music. So when, you know, when I listen to this, I'm going to laugh because my speech pattern, even in this broadcast, has slowed down once I realized your pace, which is a good thing. Because my radio kicks back in and like, you're supposed to get in, get out, get it. I'm so glad you said that. So even in this time we've been on, I've slowed it down and I can go with the conversation

and at the speed y'all go. I want to go to a song and have Stephen introduce it. Oh. Okay. Radio style. Radio style. All right. I want you to introduce the Jackson and shake your body down to the ground.

Now, there's a rule where you have to do it before, like, the lyrics start and all that. It's called hitting the post. The best song ever had hit the post to, Anita Baker's Sweet Love. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I can see that. And you talk about your radio station. You talk about what the sunshine is outside. Oh, my gosh. You're singing to make it with sweet love on W ILD. We don't know. Oh, you've started your head, can't you? I can't.

We're going to have the intro that one. So wait, what is... You want a faster one? What is a nightmare song then? Like, a song that would... Something with a short intro. Yeah, he's got no intro. I'm trying to think.

There was a song that just would come in with the vocals and they added an intro to... Get down on it is an example of a song that... Crazy. Crazy by a crazy. Oh, Norse Barclay. I don't know. Boom, boom. Boom.

Boom. I remember. I can't talk over that. Yeah. It's just a three snare hit and then right into the rest. Wow, the rules of radio. You have to pray that the song before had a long outro. Yes.

Yes. That's right. That's right. Oh, yeah. But at the radio station, you see like a reverse time. You get to see the clock of. No, I would, that was my, you look. Oh, you had to do research yourself.

I would time it myself. I would time it myself no much. And then certain songs used to do the feel. Like for me, Oh, you got through homework. I just need feel. Well, I mean, back in the day, like on the promo 45s, on the timing, you would have the intro, seven-second intro, you know, under. It would tell you that.

Yeah, but you would still have your body rhythm. Like, it's a rhythm. You would just know the records. And it feels better when you know the rhythm. Which one we're doing? Five, sweet love. Four, three, two. Man, I am so happy to be here on Quest Love Supreme.

This is your man, Stephen Hill. This is my girl, Anita Baker. I hope everything's going well in your world today and that you have exactly what she's talking about in this song from the fantastic 1986 CD Rapture. This is Anita Baker with Sweet Love. Yes! Praise the radio, guys.

Oh, man. That's it. Yo, you killed that, son. Yo, there is no... That is the best of all the songs I've ever heard in my entire life. It's absolutely my favorite song. Why do you think MF Doom rhymed over that, man? Right.

Wow. So, man, that was really. See, Amherst in shock because he doesn't know that there's a method to radio madness. I don't. I mean, there's a science. We got science, too. I respect that. I respect that.

This is what I've been trying to impart upon him for the last several months. And I will learn it in our 50th episode. But it's different. Now, you don't have to do that anymore. This might be 13. No, but I think it's different. People want the information. Like when we talk to, don't go, I think my first visceral reaction,

I'm like, oh, you can't do that. But then when, you know, we're in a culture where you want to hear the information and they're, you know, kind of pop-up video started that, where you want the information during the middle of the song because you've heard the song, you know, countless times before. So if you can get something new while you're listening to it, that's great. But viscerally, when you first, what are you doing talking over the song? Those are lyrics.

I'm sure there's times. Well, you made a mistake and maybe played a radio edit and... Oh, yeah. Well, like, if the vocals come in, do you still continue or is it like, let me... Just cut off. You go straight to the call letters. Whatever the call letters up. You make it sound real cool.

No. It's sunny outside of... WBRU. Once you hear a voice, it's just like, get out. And was your boss always on you about backselling and front selling and... Yep. No, look. Absolutely.

It was part of the format. You either, I always thought it was cool to backsell a song because when I would listen to a song, I'll know. And especially when you listen to a song when you like it, you, you'll listen to the end. Right. And you'll pay attention because you're looking to find out what that is. I'll never forget the first time I heard another one bites the dust by Queen, right? It was on WKYS in Washington, D.C.

He was on WKYS. I'm like, oh, this sound is, this song is fantastic. Sounds a little bit like chic, but I'm good. and I waited for them to back sell and they didn't. I called the radio station. I called the radio station. Back when you can... What's that song?

I know it has the lyrics. Another one bites the dust. Who's that by? And somehow, I don't know how I got through the studio. I remember... We got a new song. There's another one. What'd you call?

Another one bites the dust? Yeah, it's my queen. But there was an excitement about, like, first of all, hearing the song, but then getting through. Discovery. Yeah. But like, I knew it before the DJ it

because the DJ, whoever's coming on next, didn't know it. Yeah, I'm learning now about backselling and front selling. Words I never heard in my life until this radio show started. And I didn't know the importance of doing that. So to you, that's not a nightmare or that's important. No, I enjoy it because, look, the reason I loved radio was, a lot of it was because you play music and you hope they're really attracted to it.

So you want them to go out and you, then it was like you want to go out and buy it, but not because I didn't profit from it. I just like, I liked being responsible for you discovering something you dug, right? And so W-I-L-D is urban or is black but straight up kind of R&B, not go outside the lines as it could be before I got there. And then, you know, Seale had the nerve to put out a record when I was there. And so the living color had lover's its ugly head. And Tracy Chapman came out with the original.

no person of baby, can I hold you. Right, yeah. And I remember I would play these songs. And the record, the labels themselves would be like, that's not the single. Why are you playing this? Or you're not playing our song by the other act, but you're playing this. I'm like, oh, that's the, that's the.

They wouldn't want you to play out. Oh, no, no. It was like, that's not the single we're working. Oh, oh, please. Oh, that's not the single working. Why are you playing the second cut? But the reason why I used to listen to radio was to hear all the stuff, you know, that wasn't on everything.

You know, I loved when they would play all the album cuts. Or, you know, I would love when they would dig out the 12-inch versions of songs and let the whole 70-minute version of kids play on the radio. So when sound of the times comes out, you're not looking to play Housequake and... We heard Housequake on the radio all the time. You picked the exact song that I once on a Saturday played and got a call on the hotline from Elroy. Oh. Wow.

Now, now, now, now, I want to be clear, I followed the rules pretty well. I'm sorry, I forgot to say. So at W ILD there was 86 to 88 when I was a weekend DJ and I filled in in the mornings and stuff. And then in 88 to 93, I was the program director. So I was the boss then. But in 87, when the Times came out, I was not the boss. I was the weekend guy. But I still follow the rules have decently so much so that when I played house quake and I got a call on the hotline, which doesn't ring.

You're in the radio studio. So just the bright red light goes on. And you know you're in trouble? And there's like two people who have that phone number. It's two. It's the program director and the owner. And when that goes off. when you're playing, there's no good news coming.

There's just no, and you know you did something wrong, so you just know it. I was hoping he wasn't home or listened to the radio. I thought he wasn't in the car yet. But Housequake was the exact song that I played. In 87, how old is Elroy at this point? Oh, that's a good question. That's not a big difference between the two years. No, no, no, no.

I was 27. So he was maybe 32, maybe 32. What? And he didn't get it or feel that? No, no, no. Elroy's the format guy. He's got success because of this. So what's his mind process of, okay, he hears housequake.

He knows it's not on his list. He knows that that is not in the cards. But he doesn't know that some 15-year-old at the laundromat is hearing this for the first time and going out of his mind and I got to buy that record? No. He don't care. No. It's not the format.

So what does he want? What is his idea of success in 1987? No, I want to say, because I got to, Because Elroy was really good at playing album custody thought were good. That just wasn't one of the ones that he picked out. Really? That was hit me. Right.

That just wasn't one he. That wasn't. So he questioned some of Prince's artistic integrity? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Part of it was playing the singles game that every radio station was playing then. But, for example, he was into Let's Chill and I like while the record company was still doing groove me. Forgot.

Oh, forgot. Right? He had no problem digging into some stuff, just not everything. And Prince wasn't his thing. Prince was, when it came to that station, Prince was completely my thing. And that was the art of the PD too, right? Don't you think like the art of the PD was when you went outside the box?

You usually, and you pick something that popped, the record company would go, oh, well, maybe Stephen has something. Yes. And let me remind you that Elroy Smith is the same person that almost fired me for interviewing Raphael Zedek Live. He didn't play that shit. Really? Yeah.

Oh, that's very fun. Well, you didn't clear it through him first? Oh, I mean, I cleared it. They just wanted to pre-recorded. They wanted me to pre-recorded. Raphael agreed to do a music conference with us. This is when his Stacks album came out. Remember like that?

And they did the radio lie to me. They were like, Laia, okay, so record the interview, and we're going to play it after we start playing the record. And my Laia mind went, y'all ain't never playing this shit. This is, we all, hot one old, you know, whatever. So when he walked in the door late, I was like, this is the god Raphael Sadiq.

Let's go. And it was a really great interview. And it was just against the rule. It was just against the rules. It's just against the rules. That's it. Yeah. That's it.

And sometimes in management, you've just got to, you just have to manage in the rules or else everybody will break the rules. The reason I knew I could play housequake is because I'd manage myself within the rules for like a full year. And I was a good, I was a good employee because I didn't want to lose that gig. I love that gig. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Farrell. Woo-woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you, you know, you. you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So, wait, since we have two DC elites of. radio. I interned at DC 101 for like a like three months. Since we have two and a half. We got a cover it up in here. All formats.

I want to go off script for a second and do the radio introduction contest. Oh no. Between my ear. Steve. No, no. Steve, you already said. I was not on the air.

That was getting coffee. I was in charge of the prize room. What's the introduction contest? I don't know. Okay. All right. We will start with Stephen Hill. You're doing an introduction.

Okay, okay. He's going to win. Should we let people know that I have no idea what song is about to come on? Okay, we should set the expectation. Here we go. Hi, my name is Stephen Hill. You are listening to the best music of the world on Quest Love Supreme. Everybody, get up.

Yes, you should. This is no two ways about that. This is Stephen. That's a real flashback. Who's that? Oh, yeah. Oh, no. the radio edit.

You happy, though. That in and out you did, though. Yeah, that was good. Oh, shit. I knew that was coming, too. I knew that was coming, too. I'm rusty.

Okay, here we go. This is for you, Lai'ea. Here we go. Hey, Questlove Supreme. I'm Lai'ia on your Sunday afternoon, and what better way to cruise through the road with a little Mary on your mind? So, no, oh shit.

Oh, red light. It's faith. It's faith. It's faith. It's faith. It's faith. It's faith. It's faith.

It's faith. Can I do over? It's faith. Nope. It's faith. Too late. Avoid the red light. Am I really?

That loud? Stephen won. Even the engineers are the studio life. So does that mean we're even though since we don't fucked up? Well, that was one. Is that zero zero? Zero. It's zero, right?

I want to crack it. Give me a minute. Yeah, I was going to say. I did college radio for three years. All right. So you, all right, if you were on a radio program, you'd probably be the Friday night rap jams. Maybe so. Wait, do the same rules apply for all formats?

Like, were you guys more lenient on the midnight rap show? So it wasn't midnight because, remember, we're a daytimeer. So our midtime is like 6 p.m. Our midnight is 6 p.m. No safe harbor hours for you? Max Mix. I had Max Mix doing the thunderstorm. It was actually one of the first mix shows where I gave, I said, like, dude, just don't get us arrested, right?

It was like an hour at the end of the day, 1986, 87. That's pretty early for, that's pretty early for hip-hop. Yeah. Yeah. In Boston. You ready? You ready, Fonte? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Let's get it. You ready? All right. Here we go. Yo, yeah, what up? This man Fonte, Fonte, Nuitikilo, Littiglo. Right here on Quest Love Supreme. We're going to get into something real for you, you know what I'm saying?

Something real fly, something real funky. This is just some brand new music, you know what I'm saying? and I'm gonna just play it and I'm gonna come back and I'm a back sell because I just wanna get into this record I've been playing this shit right here on Questill Supreme let's go

the audience I'm gonna be like the people The audience does not know what a back sell What is a backsell Fonte? I was like I was like what the fuck is that shit? It's from the Bob Power episode

It's Stetsicsonics It is Statsin Oh did you not get the song right No I didn't know but I didn't get it wrong Well wait a minute Bill was also true radio I sure it was I didn't get it wrong

You said something new You can backsell something off the pre-some. I can try it. It's been a while. All right. All right. I got one for you. Oh, sooky,

sooky now. You're listening to Quest Love Supreme. This is boss Bill coming into you live. Shit. Red light. Red light. Red light. Red light.

Red light. We're going to get into some OJ and some Donald, dollar. You're not. You're just on the phone. Were you trying to figure out who the artist was, Bill? No, I just. Got lost to my words. Scott, come in the room one second.

Scott, how are you doing? You there? Yes, I'm here. What's up? All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is Scott Yeo, our boss. Boss Bill's boss. And also deep in the radio, do you know what we're doing? I do.

Tell them your format, Scott. Yeah, better be alternative. 90s, early 2000s alternative would be helpful. Don't really. No, Kirkland. Put some cake. Put some cake on there. Put some cake on there.

I think you should... Oh, yeah, yeah. We are going the distance. Well, no, because that one starts straight and writing the lyric. But I'm saying that I'm not... The object isn't stumping you with the song. The object is seeing how quick you adjust to whatever. To be clear, if you were DJ and you wouldn't be adjusted.

You would know what it was. I would listen to it beforehand. I would know my run-up time. Well, to be fair, to be fair, I think rock radio had different rules as well. Like, you didn't want to step on the music as much as, You didn't want to talk over the music as much as much as you did in like an R&B. You mean like the music period? No, the music.

Oh, wow. A lot of it started cold, at least in radio stations I was. And by the way, if you were as good as Stephen was earlier when he hit that post, we'd call him a Postmaster General. Nice. Okay. Postmaster General. You ready?

You do know you'll be doing this last, right, boss? Oh, I'm doing this too? Yeah. I'm doing this as well? Oh, yeah. You thought you were going to get away? Get away? Yeah, I thought I was going to get away with this.

All right, you ready? Yeah. Here we go. Red light, red light, red light. What's going on? It's Scott Riggs. How you doing? It's crazy Wednesday morning.

Let me tell you, the weather out there is nuts, but we've got some good music for you. It's Questlove Supreme. Here is the guerrillas. Red light, red light, red light, red light, red light. Really, that was. Who's picking your song? Bill. All right, Bill.

Who's doing it right now? Yeah, how'd you know? Because I, no bother. Give him blur song, too. Actually, I'll say. Give him blur song too. Or give him Peter Murphy cuts you up, which is about a three-minute lead-in for him to fill.

No, that's hard. Like, if anything, I think the longer the intro is, you have to talk. There's a perfect, there's like a 10 to 12, like a perfect, there's a perfect amount of time. Like it's two shorts, too bad, too long is ridiculous. But do you have to talk until the vocals start? You don't have to, but you want to be Postmaster General.

Yeah, it gets weird. Postmaster General comes with a star and some rice crispy. So do you practice this at home? On the air. Who teaches you this? No, in between songs, when you're playing music. Not really glad you did the show because I forgot. You are Postmaster General.

You hit that post-down. You're Yoda of Post-Man. Mass in general. Well, and by the way, you also, it gets hard to make it interesting every time, right? Like, you can't throw out the weather every time. You can't throw out the time every time. Sometimes you're pulling facts about the band. Sometimes you're saying what's going on in the city.

But you've got to fill that with something interesting. And also, you've got to know the music. But, you know, part of the reason I got hired when Elroy was driving through is because I'd gone through the paper. Like, I loved hitting the post. That was one of the things I loved doing. And to your point, you've got to think of different things. So I had to know what was going on, something about the music.

And so you kind of plan on what you're going to say. say or the you don't you don't script it out but you know here the here the beats I want to hit in this intro or before I start this intro or you got a little note right there a couple little things you want to say or giving way tickets to the circus yeah yeah which is really easy oh this is easy I got a liner oh this is easy I got a giveaway what's a liner is a liner is a quest love is being brought to you by Booth Mobile oh or me undies or me undies or liner is me undies where you is or it's some it's like special it's something it's like a station business.

It's like, don't forget, we got this festival coming up, and we'll be having tickets in the next hour. So make sure as you listen to. We got free comedy tickets to the show coming up this weekend, come out to Napa Auto Parts on Saturday from 10 to TV. We'll give you some stickers.

Come on down to roll these records and tapes. We'll be doing your remote. All right. I'm ready. You ready? Oh, hey, well, hang on. Let me meditate. Bill, we can get all that. Oh, okay. No, bring on the panic.

Bring on the pain. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, this is Questlove of Questlove Supreme. It is the midnight hour, and we are paying tribute to the great Rod Temperton. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, free hot dogs to the ninth caller who can guess some of the greatest music. This is Love Times Love. All right, that was C-minus. That was C-minus. That was C-minus. I'm kind of mad you did better than all of us who went to school and studied.

Well, you know, radio is my school. I have a question. Yes. It's sort of philosophical question almost now. The intro to a song and theoretically the fade out, are those specifically meant for radio for a DJ to be posting up or whatever it's called? Do I think that some creators went into the studio so that that could happen? I'm saying if you're making a song that you want to be on the radio,

do you create intros specifically for what we're talking about right now? I'm going to talk about, I have no idea because I've never created a record, but I would not be surprised if If some people If there were people I almost want to think of the Motown area Right I always think

Barry Gordy Sitting there with the transistor speaker In his office is thinking like Ah That intro is too long Like that it was too long Or if the intro is just right They'll talk about my record

Going right up to it But by the way But then I thought of stopping the name of love And I was like probably not Yeah To be honest with you Posting is all about It's something like

That was invented by DJs because you're bored as hell when you're in that studio for four hours. Once it was invented, then were people who are making songs. Specifically creating intros with that kind of time. I would say probably. Could be. I know that at least in alternative in rock, they started telling us to step out. They were like, don't even talk even if there is an intro, just let it go.

Or we'll get an edit and they'll chop that off and it'll just start with the vocals. So, yeah, was there, because I grew up or at least became of age where I saw, started hearing, you know, more music, less talk. Or there was a, I remember an issue in Billboard magazine, like, doing the George Michael Faith period, so like 88, 89, where it was like the pay to play thing or like pay us to sell your song or I remember this issue coming up like 80s, near early 90s. Independent promoters or? Well, just the idea of like, you know, we're not going to backsell or front sale the song

anymore. Was there a period in which you got a memo which was like, okay, you no longer have to sell the song or it? No, no. I've, but I, you know, I was at a kind of a, a black man-owned station that daytime in Boston. They would have said no to that any other because there's no way they would have not tried to promote, promote the music, right? And I think there were some people who were trying to figure out, we'll call them more shady ways of getting paid around the music. And so that's what that sounds like. And so Ken Nash was never about that. Okay, so again, this is me asking from the most naive standpoint, whatever,

because I really never spoke to a seasoned radio person. Is radio's existence or is its purpose to promote music? No. What is radio's purpose? It is to increase shareholder wealth. that's what it's there for. That's what it's there for. Now, there are people who are in radio

who love music, who want to make sure that music thrives and gets a thrill out of finding the new and exposing to other folks. But radio's purpose itself is to increase shareholder wealth. And it became more and more of that

as more of these conglomerates popped up. And they found wonderful ways to do it. And there's some cool creative stuff that's come out of it. But that's not what they're there for. So the cherry on top is that, you know, a cat like you and I, can discover return to forever or weather report or craft work, you know, along the way.

Yes. But radio is really about how Chrysler or Toyota or whatever company it is can sell their products. Now, for a kid, for me listening to radio at 13 is the object that you'll play the songs that I love so much that I'll control the dial in the car so that when dad hears, that cool in the gang Slits want liquor commercial he'll like yeah I want some you know

some beer or whatever like So it depends on the station DAS was probably trying to appeal to your dad So DAS was probably trying to appeal to your dad at the time But what I'm saying is that Is the radio targeting a 12 and 13 year old Depends on the station

I mean most today I know they're targeting Because of the artists that are winning now I mean I'm sure the Riannas of the world And the Taylor Swift's of the world Are hitting the 11 year old in the 12 years. But I guarantee you they're trying to hit 18 to 24. Maybe 16, but that's not one of the sellable demos.

But 18 to 24 is probably as low as you're going. And they believe that the song appealed to a 13 or 16 can travel upward as well. So your sweet spot is the 16 to 25 year old. For certain stations, for other, for like adult contemporary, it's older. What's the station that was your highest listenership? Who had the biggest audience? WBRU on Sundays. We were in Providence, Rhode Island,

and then no one else was playing black music at all. On Sundays, we would kill it. But you weren't thinking about demographics then, were you? We always think about demographics. We were 95.5, so therefore we were on a commercial part of the dial. We were always thinking about demographics, always. And we were selling 18 to 34 at that time. So we really wanted to make sure that we were hitting 18 to 34.

We were. I mean, that's one of the great things about that station. We had to think like a professional radio station. But in doing that, we still had a much looser format. Did you play Candy Girl? if that's the case? Absolutely. But 18 and 34, though.

Here's the thing. So we were able to cheat a little bit because there was no other competition. So we had a captive audience and a loyal audience in a good way. And you can kind of sell anything, right? So for example, for Candy Girl, we would go on there and say,

hey, I know you missed the Jackson Five or having these talented brothers out of Boston. So you hit on the emotion of, they used to like, they're local, and you hope they do well. So that's the way you make something like Candy Girl work, even though it's not necessarily for 1834. So it just wasn't about, hey, this is a really good song.

That as well. You want to find a really good song, but you also want to find a way that it makes it relevant to the audience. And let them stay. Make sure they stay and don't turn the channel because they don't recognize the song. So if 34 is the closing get, then... For B.R. you at the time. But I would think that the older you are,

the more you control the purse strings in the house. So are you not thinking a 45... five-year-old, like, if you're in a household, the dad who might be 42, 43 years old. So there's money at every level. Okay. There's just, you know, there's money at every level because especially 1834, you're controlling your own purse strings. Even this, it's not, it's not as much as the older, older audience.

But that's why they have, I can't think of any station that's a, that's a. Oh, like the light stations. Yeah. Like Light FM. You can just, you can just, you just, you just tattoo 54. I live there. All right. education portion of the show,

I can stay on forever, but we kind of have to go to D.C. a little bit, go to B.E. So, what did you make your exodus from radio to television? I was an ILD. I left ILD in 93. I went to Dallas to go work

at the Tom Joyner Morning Show. I was the first executive, I was the first executive producer at the Tom Jonah Morning Show for a year. And then... What was that like? And it wasn't syndicated?

Here's what I learned. I learned how to do selector, which is a great, great music program. What selector? Selectors of music programming. Well, I use it as a warehouse. Some people use it to program their stations.

It's like you put all of your songs in a computer, in different categories, and then most people ask the computer to spit out, right? In categories, right? In different categories. So in an hour, if you play 12 songs, you'll play five heavies, four mediums, one brand new and one classic. Does that make sense? Oh, no.

I'm sorry. That's how Fradyo has been formatted. I may be off on the... Did you feel conflicted? No, no, no, no. But I'm saying, so what I'm saying, so what you do is you put in all the number of heavies you have, which is probably, which is maybe 10.

I'm way off on the numbers. But the idea is you put in the computer, and then it'll spit out in the order that you ask, wanted to be in, music. And most lazy programmers program their stations that way. So when you say heavies, are you talking about heavy rotation? Yes, heavy rotation. And mind you, every radio station uses this same program.

So 94, if you're talking about five heavies, in a month's time are you saying that this song will get played 30 times a day and no okay so can I do it differently once every two hours so once every two hours

a heavy would get played right and then now a heavy gets played like what once every 35 minutes once every 35 minutes I was gonna say like I could hear Mariah's fantasy at least three times in a two hour period on radio I believe

yeah that's probably about the time that's starting maybe two hours right maybe twice yep But now it's like, well, it lives one every 35 minutes, once every 45 minutes. Yikes. Because the measure, the way they measure it is. How did you feel about that? Like, did you feel as though the, was it just like, let's go with the times or was it?

Well, in ILD when I was a programmer, it was, you still had to do that because we still wanted to keep the audience. But the fun was the two new records you got to play, right? Right? The fun was the two. The fun was the two new records you got to play each hour. It's true. Like, so, you know, and when you pick, especially when it's either an album cut that nobody else is playing, Or when Seale and Tracy Chapman and like living,

that was like, it was like putting on something that the other won't dare, right? Right? That's what it was like. Okay, so here's a question. How long would a song have been on the station before it hits heavy rotation? Oh my gosh, you tested my memory. Ten weeks.

Okay, so it works itself up from light, medium to heavy rotation. And it would stand for heavy rotation for, like, on average. If it was, what was the Tony Terry song? Oh, with you? With you? Yeah.

Tony Terry stayed on for like half a year. Oh my God. Tony Terry, till to this day, that song would not, you put bullets in that thing and it would not go down. Who determines the life of a heavy rotation? So you do research. Once you have a song on there, you call-up.

Like a focus group? Call-out research. No more call-out research. You call different people and play hooks for them over the phone. When you find out how it's selling down at a Nubia Notion in Dudley Square in Boston, and found out how it's selling it, Strawberries and Tower. And so you find out how people are engaged. engaging with the song.

So if you've ever gotten a promo CD and wondered why call out research hook was tracks two and three. And there were only 17 seconds long, that's why. Yes. Wow. So we always wanted to find out like we're playing this stuff,

but do they like it? Do they not like it? I'm sorry. I can't get off radio. No, it's okay. Because I was about to ask a radio but kind of still transition and further than your career question.

So once you became a producer for the time during the morning show, were you feeling a little bit more, is it more free, less stress situation? No. No. You're not the boss boss, but. It was more stress around music because if you remember, a lot of people do it now,

but back then only Howard Stern was doing multiple shows, multiple stations in multiple cities. Tom Joyner was the first blackjack to do it. So it was really pioneering. And what you have to do is we started off from 12 stations, if I'm not mistaken. So on those 12 stations, what you have to do is take all the music from those 12 stations and you have to find a common denominator for those 12 stations, which is just a very, very, very, very small subset of the music that's being played or the music that's out that time. So being the music person or one of the people put together the music for that was

stressful for the Tom Joyner Show because I would get a call from who was programming Miami because we put on a song that Chicago like, but they don't like it. So it was really a restrictor playlist. And when it came to uptempo songs, it was difficult. Sounds like a headache. It sounds like 12 headaches. So then you were ready for BETT because. So yeah.

So anyhow, so I was there for. a year and then I got an opportunity to go to MTV because MTV was hiring people who did radio. They're like, we don't care if you don't have any TV experience. We're looking for people who know how to program radio. So when were you at MTV? I was at MTV 95 to 99.

February of 95 to April of 99. Oh, right when were you there doing Fred's period? Fred got us. He did. He did. He did. He did.

Fred, he did. Fred was. Fred Jordan. Of course. Of course. I'm not, I'm not, never mind. I was not connecting that very obvious dot. Yeah. Fred Jordan was, the late great Fred Jordan, like one of his last acts of greatness was, I might just beg him like, oh, please play my video. Yeah. And Fred got, you got me on like medium MTV rotation. What year was that? What part of 99? And what part of 99? I'm trying to think of whether it was there or that. It took MTV a second by April of 1999. They finally jumped aboard and that really, that started. That's when we were like, oh my God, like 500,000 people brought this record.

Like, we couldn't believe it. I would tell you the record where I realized the power of MTV. What? Ski-Lo, I wish. Oh, man. Ski-low, I wish was shortly after I got there. I still love that song. I love that song.

I was like, oh, my. Like it was just fun. It was everything a video should be. Like it was, and one of the things I loved it was inexpensive, right? And that was the time when budgets on videos were starting to go up. And what I loved about was like, no, no, no, show people that if you just have a great concept, a cool song, you can spend little money. You don't have to spend no crazy money. You don't have to spend crazy money.

I love that about it. And Skelo went gold. Like, Skilo, Skilo, I wish, went gold. And I was like, oh, that's, that's what MTV can do. I was so shortly after I got there. During that time period, I mean, if MTV gave you regular rotation for at least two or three months, your life literally, literally changed. But what was it like in that system once you got there?

What was your position once you... I was a director of music program. Yes. I was a director of music program. Not the director because there was a bunch of us. Myself, Louis Largent, Kurt Steffick. Fred Jordan was a manager. Patty Galutzi ran the department along with Andy Shone, was there.

So were you the black guy? I was the black guy. But Fred was black too. I was the black too. I was the black senior. Were you the ear to the streets? No. Fred was always the ear to the streets.

Yeah. Right? I was, I was, I. We were the streets. Yeah, yeah, yes. Baltic Avenue. Yeah. And Jack Benson, too.

Jack Benson, who was a producer. He wasn't on the music team. Jack, yeah. Jack Benson, Jack Benson as well was like. That's my man right now. Yeah, yeah. I love Jack is. Jack was fighting the good fight long before I got there.

How would you guys arm wrestle space of what got to I haven't thought about this at a long the town system where the whole staff sits there and watches the video on the yeah absolutely Monday we'd have the video meetings we'd see what got accepted like this is for yo this is for 120 minutes this is for regular rotation

and on Tuesday we'd have the music meeting Fred eventually came into the meeting Fred wasn't in the meeting when I first got there Kurt Lewis Padagal Lutzi Sherry Howe and we'd all kind of have it out for what what music should be where. And it wasn't unlike radio. And that's why I think it had radio folks come in and do a lot of work on MTV,

especially when it came to program the music. There's some great ones I thought we, you know, there's some real misses we had. And one mentioned Julie Greenwald from Atlantic Records, who formerly of Def Jam, mentioned one at the Revolt Conference the other day. And she put it on Instagram and actually commented behind it. Wait, I want to guess. Go ahead.

Because I'm trying to figure out the mind of Julie. It was a miss. It was on Atlantic. No, no, no, no. It wasn't. Remember she was Def Jam at the time. And they really wanted to come on MTV. I remember New York's Times called it the love song of the summer. LL's. What year was this? I think it was 95. 95. Was it? Death Jam? One sweet day? Nope. What is it? Method of Mary. Oh, wow. Okay.

Oh, shit. Method and Mary. Oh, yeah. All I need to get by. Wow. And they brought that video up and they tried to get on regular rotation and I was brand new. So I didn't know my way around. One of the stories of biggest regrets.

I remember somebody on the team said, I remember these words, it's too darkened street. Oh, my God. I was like, I didn't know what to do with at the time. I just, I was brand new. You didn't know what to say in that room at the time, right? Like, what do you say to that? Yeah. It's too early to raise my fist like that.

And so it was in Yo MTV, but it never really got on a full rotation that it deserved while it was on. Wait a minute. I remember it being played a lot, but you're saying it could have been. It could have been. It could have been. It really wasn't. It didn't get played on regular rotation that much on MTV. How many videos would MTV keep in heavy rotation at the time?

I can't remember. Somewhere in the low teens, I think. I always think of cake because cake was one of those. something about that video and about that song. This song and video was great. Yeah, I love that song and video. So you weren't dealing with just, quote, urban videos as well. You were dealing with...

Absolutely. Yeah. All formats. All formats. How did labels feel about that? What do you mean? Well, Sylvia Rohn told me some stories about how Metallica felt about her being their boss. But, you know, what's a label feel about you if you don't,

don't think that it's not necessarily working. They kind of want to be like, well, let me see what da-da-da thinks. Or they call, who's the president? It was not. Andy Schoen was running at them. Judy, Judy, Judy McGrath was kind of over at all. Was sort of like, I want to talk to your boss and see what she thinks.

That happened every once in a while. But it wasn't a regular recurrence. And I think people understood and respected all different types of music. I think people were surprised that I was, that the black guy I like stuff other than black music as well. I think that came to a shock to some folks at first of the labels. But that was short-lived.

It was a great time. How was that work for you go? It was a great time when music was kind of booming. It was post-Nirvana, but red-hot chili pepper was still going. But how is it dealing? I mean, how is that for you personally, at least trying to not speak two languages? I know, like, as a black person. Code switching?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everyone has to naturally know two languages. The great Dave Chappelle says that, you know, black men speak English. Well, no, we speak street. And job interview. And, yeah, job interview. So, I mean, you found yourself often in positions in the boardroom having to prove your pedigree as far as your music knowledge is just well beyond knowing, you know, what the black artists are doing. and yeah just as with anything in any job you just got to prove you got to prove that you belong there

it wasn't it i don't felt like i don't think it was i had to prove myself anymore just had to prove that i belonged there i had to talk the language that like i know my music i know i know i know my hip-hop thanks to and some of that was like i also knew what i didn't know right and that's why i have such a such a place for fred because fred fred fred got it fred got stuff fred was uh her hurts to talk about him sometimes. He was just, not otherworldly, but he was just a very special guy and that artists loved him and he understood music and he knew what the next trend was. He called cash money like a good year and a half before it really popped off. He called Master P before that popped off. He was DiAngelo long before D popped off. And I know they had a very, very, very special

relationship. Yeah. And so also, so part of what was me knowing what I didn't know. But so sometimes Fred would, Fred would come with the, uh, Fred would come with the knowledge. And I'm like, great, I'm going to take this in the meeting. And, and let's see, let's see what we can do with it. Okay. My favorite thing is that Fred, Fred, I'm the guy who liked the slow version of him

my bed by Drew Hill. And Fred was like, no, I do it the remix. Oh, man, a slow version of slow. No, no, no, no, no, Steve, the remix. So how, at this level, Now I've got to ask, at this level, how do artists handle rejection at this level of your career, people that know that you're connected to the label? I'm not asking for Shug Night Stories.

I'm just saying that, you know, by this point, in the mid-90s, there's definitely a more hostile environment, especially with the uprising of hip hop and where it's come to where you know it's about dollars and cents and the popularity of you know are you allowed to express i don't know if i'm feeling this video or not and you know then you're somewhere at dinner in l.a and then you have to see an executive and you know how come you're playing it like how do you because you were so active between that period in the mid to mid 90 to the early arts like how did you handle the the the juggling act of artists and executives egos so two things i think one is that m tv we always tried to find a place for something even if it was just one spin on on m tv on yo m tv raps uh the weekend version right we always

tried to find a place for something that was that was that was our that was our mantra that was our mindset like there's got somebody's going to love this you know an alternative rock could get a play on 120 minutes. So I think people understood we were always trying to find something. That's one. Two is that I found it was advantageous to establish very early that this is a long game. I know I plan on being around for a while. So we're not going to have this conversation,

we're going to have this conversation, but we're not going to lose our relationship over one song because you're going to come back again. And, you know, so let's do this dance for a long term. Because sometimes we're going to be able to do stuff the way you want it. And other times, going to not going to so i think and i think everybody i think so you're saying that they knew not to bite the hand that feeds them i don't think that i don't i don't see i mean i don't see it's the same

place it's the same place no no i don't think i don't i don't see it that way because it's not a matter of biting the hand like what what could they do like you know not give us the videos or we we were especially then you know there was still a lot of music being played on m tv and so it just didn't make it didn't make any, and I remember it came, but someone's ego had to get shattered that was that big. I mean, at some point, uh, like if Kanye had been around.

No, I mean, okay, let's take, uh, okay, you weren't, you were going by the time forever came out. When, when the Puffy's Forever album come out? 99, I want to say. 98, 99. Is this like a Stephen Starwood?

No, what came I? Uh, which, uh, did forever have a, which would you, you hate me now? No, that was nice. That was nice. No, forever. Okay, forever was 99. Do you have a hate-me-now story?

Oh, that was the Steve Stout, John. So is there a good Steve Stout story? The Steve Stout story, I think, has been told that's it. Is there a good Puffy story? My last week at MTV, there was an executive from Bad Boy that while Puff was going his route, they were right across the street actually in the building that we exist in right now and came across to 1515 Broadway

with a couple of very very large gentlemen to facilitate his movement and executive came over to try to to intimidate people in the music department now I don't want to use any proper nouns but there was a guy we'll call him

Bob Bob who was who was new and was running the department and wasn't used to this type of activity. Right? They were used to the type of activity. And so I and Fred

understanding that this activity was not going to bode well for the long term. Again, this is about a long-term play. Yes, there was a mistake made about playing, this was about playing the video with Nas and Puff

and someone was on a cross and they weren't supposed to be on a cross. Yeah, I was going to say the, Controversy was the fact that Puffy didn't want to be seen as on the cross? That is correct. That was controversy. That was the controversy.

He did not want to be seen as on the cross. It was anoint. Why did you shoot it? Well, by the way, and I support that. You don't edit in the field. You edit in the room, right? And you make, so you can make decisions. You can't go like, oh, we should have shot that.

So he didn't get final say? He did. There was a mistake. There was a, so there were standards issues where standards means like, oh, you can't do that because that's going to get us in trouble. and there's creative issues. So in that, all the standards issues were taken care of in the edit.

Puff being on a cross wasn't a standards issue. It was a creative issue. The creative issue didn't get taken care of. And so it aired with Puff on the cross. You know, the Puff Stoutt's thing. I can't talk about that because I wasn't there. That's documented. But a couple of folks came across the street

and were like, what went on? Now, the problem, of course, was there's nothing that could have been done. You can't untake it off. You can't have unpeople unsee it. So that wasn't really, that wasn't a good use of force. It just wasn't a smart use of force. It was just a use of force out of anger,

not out of intelligence. Or thinking it. Well, I was going to say, why were the unsavory gentleman at 1550 Broadway and not at the editor's post or? Closer access. So are you saying that they called you guys and said, stop playing the video and you guys said,

nope. No, that's the point. The point is, all they had to do was say, don't play the video. We wouldn't have played the video again. The fact they played in the first place was a mistake. We knew that. It was out of emotion.

It was sunny, Corallione, not Michael. That's the best way to put it. So the video came, the video had to have come from the label, right? Yes. So somebody at the label screwed up. So in a way, yes. So, like, did the label just not have the right, they did not have the final version, or did they send over the wrong?

I think if I remember correctly, you test my memory, I think we had two versions, the wrong one got played. Because remember, it was a creative issue, not a standard issue. So we had the one that, and the one that got played was the one that took care of all the standards issues. And so that's how the, that's how the wrong got played. But I think that was the one

and only time it was played. There was no, there was actually nothing to be gained by coming over and doing that. Right, right. Right. Because and sure enough, I've talked about, you know, you play for the long, you play for the long ball. That damaged the relationship. And I, that was literally my last week at MTV. Not because

of that. It was just, it was scheduled out already to be the last week. And I've always I'll take this moment to say I was, I loved MTV and being there. It was very cool. Even after I announced where I was leaving and where I was going, they let me stay like, I remember they let me finish out the week. It wasn't like close up your laptop and close up your computer and leave right now. I've always, I always have love

for them for that. So at the time, was BT part of the VICOM conglomerate or were they independent? BET was independently owned, was privately owned, Bob Johnson, of course, is the person who founded it. He had taken it public and then taken it private again. So he was the major shareholder or it was privately owned at that point in time. And you felt like that was a better move or a better?

That's what, you know, I, here's the way I put it. I decided to put my job where my mouth was, right? I looked at it and said like, oh, maybe it could be a little bit better or do a little bit different. and I knew that there was some different ways that labels were treating BET and MTV at the time and so there was just an opportunity to

to make a change and so in the beginning what were your thoughts of BET like did you see it as the kind of the kid redhead stepchild style of the video showing industry? What did you immediately say? I have to change that. Or like Or like, oh, we can step this up a little bit or that sort of...

I think it was more we can step this up. You know, I knew it was... It was handcuffed by being in D.C. Being in D.C. was a great thing for... Because when Bob needed to get stuff done on Capitol Hill, that was the perfect place to be. But to really be an entertainment... A player in the entertainment world.

It was tough being in D.C. We mourn that. So it's kind of the Motown, Detroit, Exodus to L.A.? Yeah. Yeah, but except... except the talent lived in Detroit, so that was great. The talent coming to D.C. was always a bit of a challenge.

Like, it's out of the way, right? And so one of the first things in my interview, I was like, what do you think about moving some parts of your stuff to New York? And so... Were they receptive? Yeah, within a year, I got there in June, April,

April, May of 99, and we kicked off 106 and Park on September. September 11th. 2000. Was that your brainchild? I was in the room. Like, yeah, there was a bunch of us, but yeah. But, but yeah, there was a bunch of them.

Because I remember there was talk amongst us, you know, my peers that, you know, they're going to have a black TRL. I was like, how is that going to work? And, you know, I could imagine such a thing. And so, yeah, it actually worked. It was, it was, yeah, it was live TV, New York, AJ and Free. AJ was actually supposed to be AJ was actually we were we were getting

AJ to help us find posts and then I saw how we how we work with people and how people reacted to it I'm like no that's you because AJ and he went to like Howard and he's Howard AJ and Ali Alie Al who used to work up against the wall right on Howard. Oh Ali Al who

Ali Al who's known as hits Yeah yeah we used to go in high school I went to Bannaker so we would go down there and he would make us laugh Yeah he's still doing that he's still doing that today and then free Free, Free actually was a, Free was an intern at W ILD in Boston.

Oh, is it? I knew Free, she was 15, 16 years old. Oh, wow. And always had that personality. She was down with the Wycleft's clue. Yes, she was. Yes, she was. She was Marie Antoinette.

That's right. That's right. Damn, shout out's the free, man. Come through the clutch front. It's my girl. It's my WPGC sister. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Shout to AJ N. And free. Wow. And what, damn, it must be something. You know what? You must be very proud. You have some, some great talent that's come through.

I call them my kids. Like AJ has really done it. Roxy. Alexie has killed. Terrence is killing it. I mean, really Tick is killing it on his own little way too.

You know what I'm saying? So wow. Joe Claire? Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, Joe Clear. So where, so at this point, like how do you,

besides the New York recommendation, like what's the reception to you kind of coming in and shaking things up? Or was it? It was dead. To you had to read like the, art of war to figure out like, can you even talk about this? No, no.

I can't, no, because it was, it was, people wanted to, you know, Deborah Lee and, and Bob Johnson really wanted to, want to change. They wanted to be a kind of a, they want to be bigger players in the game. And so they were absolutely open to change. And, you know, for example, there only used to be like six months a year and the rest of them were repeats throughout the summer. So you could, you could change the videos, but the, but, but, you know, you could change the videos. the interviews were sometimes like four months old.

And so one of the first things we did was, okay, it was going to keep some of the music up all year. Get great personalities. Hits from the street. You know, hits from the street still one of my favorite people in the world. Hits from the street literally came from like our second week there. I'm having meetings with people and I have this meeting with a group of people. And everybody leaves except him.

I'm like, oh, are you in this department? I just came in for the meeting. I heard you knew. I'm your guy. I'm funny. And I do this. And I'm like, and someone has told me not to kick him out. the office. And so I said, okay, here's what I need you to do. I need you to get a camcorder.

It's a big, big ass camcorders in the day, and just go somewhere and for half an hour, just play with people, right? Just, just, just get in, it's interact with people. He said, I don't have a camcorder. And I said, if you really want this gig, you'll find a camcorder, right? And so he went and got a camcorder and went down to Union Station. And I don't remember every one of his bits. Number one, I never watched the whole tape. Number two, one of his bits was, going to somebody, yo, play it. Listen, I'm getting, I'm getting,

I'm getting, I'm getting a, I'm getting my friend a birthday gift. You look about a size, would you mind trying it on for me, just see if it fits? He goes no problem. And he pulls out a condom. And so literally the first 15 minutes,

the first 15 minutes of that tape was so fun, I never looked at the last 15 minutes. And we, we, oh my gosh, I'm just remembering. So when I came, there they had already ad sales the ad sales team had already sold the the titles of the shows and so I was stuck with the title of the shows but I could do whatever I wanted to with them right so hits from the street was a title I had to had to use it didn't matter what the show was the show had to be called hits from the streets and so since I had that title I just called him hits

that's hilarious because they wanted to be a video show it sounds that's funny hits from the streets and so we sent him out on the streets it's what became hits from the streets Cida's original name was Jamzone jam zone was ahead of her time yeah I was gonna see it was way ahead of her time. Yeah, she was like the black Max headroom. Yep. Okay, bad reference.

But not real. Not really, no. Okay, always watch your face to see if it was too. No, I agree, yeah. But she's a little bit more controversial. Yeah. She got away with saying stuff that like, you know. A live person couldn't have done.

Couldn't have done because there was somebody coming after. And break the mystery. Who was she again? I met her in real life. Who is she? Callie Troy. Her name's Callie Troy. She told me, close my.

my eyes and then she started talking like her. I was like, yeah, but her voice is like nothing like that. No, no, no, no. Have you guys ever thought about? The name CETA came from the person who actually drew the design for the, for the character. CETA. That was her name.

It's time for a Cedar revival. I'm sorry. I wouldn't be. She had to look different more like three-dimensional. The last time you saw Cida, by the way, and I thought it was brilliant of the person. Somebody put together the B.T. Harlem Shake when that was the big thing. And all of a sudden, the dude, the Harlem shake. And Cida comes in, goes from left the right.

I was like, That's a championship move right there. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliverts Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that

trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry. about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yo, I got to ask you, because one thing about you, I mean, people watch VET, they see you periodically, but you always look like you are having a ball.

Like, when was the first time on this gig when it was like official, you were having a ball, you were loving this job. This is it. He's always like, always. It's from the beginning. Because I always see you at concerts. Yes, yes. Even at the police, when the police reunited. That's right.

When the police reunited. Was the Roxy in the L.S. Yes. Two black guys in the audience jumping their asses off. The whole audience was like too cool for school. That's right. And by the way, and mad because Stuart Copeland wasn't playing it like he did on the record. I know, but they were, you know, they.

I was waiting for that. Just for the fact that they were there. That was enough for me. It was. So how do you do this, Stephen? This is interesting because you have such a dynamic. music taste and now you're at BET like it was different when you were at MTV you had this you had that now it's a little bit more of a box it's just a big box but it's a little bit more but how do you

survive in that and then at the same time you have to create standards for what you're going to do in that box because it wasn't like it was like your college show where you just played black music you know what I mean you had standards so how did you survive with this mentality of free music life in this box I'm not sure I understand I think he's trying to ask, like, how do you reconcile the shit you like versus the shit you have to play? I was trying to make it sound real pretty. Yeah. I was trying to make it sound like.

There's a lot of people who have to work. Now, that's like I'll sound right. Like, I love this music thing. I love this music. I love television. But my heart is in music. And so the fact that I get to work in music at all is just the greatest thing in the world. I still have hobby.

You know, I'm still going to go see, you know, Radiohead. Man. Traveling around the world to see radio head is my thing. That's my, it'll never be my, it won't be my job anymore. It wasn't as MTV. I could, you know, I could make that, that. But it's, but I just love doing it. So you're really living, still living your life, like, basically,

I feel like a black radio person, whereas like we do have other tastes. But however, at my job, this is what I do. Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But also, you try to, you try to put, not my taste, but part of the cool thing, I never, never lose, the desire and the love of like oh shoot this is brand new like Anderson Pack on the on the BT award this year not pending many people who knew who Anderson

yeah I was thankful for thank you for that no no no no it's the thing we love to do we put on the BT Awards like we want to find two people that nobody knows about y'all are getting dover and dover with it people will people will pick up on it do you think that you know because I had a group at one time little brother never here we go I'm ringing any bells You may have heard of.

Not ringing a, not ringing a, not ringing a, uh, you know, my question. And at the time there was a, uh, we had a video and, um, it was, the rumor was that it was, we, we got from BET that was too intelligent for the, the listeners. Um, I spent years trying to track that down. Like, like literally, no joke. No, no, for real. Because that made no sense to me because given, and I don't remember the exact time period, but like this part about always wanting to expose and go in new directions of music, music is not new.

And so for us, to anybody say that's too intelligent, just flies in the face of everything that I had done in my career and that our team wanted to do. So I know, and I, I swear to got, I said, like, who said to anybody in the team that was too intelligent? I never found out who that was. No, I mean, we didn't either. And I mean, after a while, it was just

whatever. Somebody made it up on the internet. Yeah, no, it really could have just been something that came out of a fucking internet form. Or hip-hop form, whatever. Right. So, my question was, do you think now, you know, a group Like a little brother. I mean, it's not about me, but just like a group like that.

You think they have more, because from what I've seen, it seems to me like y'all have more leeway now in terms of like getting the Anderson Pock and the stuff y'all doing with the ciphers. You know what I mean? It seems like y'all have more leeway now to really put new people on than you did, say, 10 years ago, like when we were kind of doing. I mean, that's how it seems to me. So we have to do it in a different form because, again, like radio when we were doing, you know, there's tons of videos that I've loved. that we just couldn't play. There's far more good music than there are slots to put it in when you're trying to programming it on radio.

You know, I saw you crinkle your eyebrows when I said like 12, and I, 12 specific an hour and five heavies. But that's just the reality of the business. But on the ciphers, on those music matters slots that we did that we do on the BET Awards, that's when we get to like, okay, we can't do it repeatedly like we do with videos, but we can show people like, this is some dope stuff you should know.

You should know this. What is the challenge for y'all in terms of staying relevant, which is a word that I hate, but I think you understand the context of what I mean. You know,

in an era where we live in where, you know, videos and stuff are pretty much on demand now. And, you know, just the way that people consume music is totally different.

And there's so much more, you know, you're a network, but you're competing with celebrities on Snapchat. You know what I mean? How do you adapt to that? We've had to, I mean, when it comes to music,

there's, there's, the music on BET right now is really, it's in our, it's our tempos, in our award shows. A lot of, there's some stuff on Centric, we have BT jams, which is still completely video, BT soul as well. But the idea of playing videos on BT proper is, it's a tough thing to do now. We don't have any video shows on BT.

Like MTV? Yeah, yeah. Because to your point, everything's moved online. You used to sit around with, man, man, when that new little bow wow video comes on, I'm going to be sitting right in front of that TV. I'm going to be right there. And now it's like, you know, YouTube. You see it? There's no, there's no sit there. And as a result, you lose some of the discovery that comes along with. Yeah. But I'm fascinated by folks like Chance the Rapper. I love seeing, you know what I love. I love seeing Chance the Rapper at the top of the,

there's this thing comes out that, you know, the top songs being played at radio. It has the name of the song and the artist and the number of weeks it's been on and the label it's on right so i love seeing chance to rapper and having no label that that was that was fantastic the last thing i remember that happening was drake best i ever had before he signed yeah right that's the last number one without a label so there's just different ways you know i think somebody's going to make a whole bunch of money when they figure out how to harness that okay how do you how do you reach critical mass at the same time on the internet. I don't think anybody's really done that successfully,

repetitively yet. But there's these things that break through, and it's just, it's fantastic to see. Hurt's our business. As a music lover and I'd love to have more music on BET proper. You know, it's a bummer for me, but I love. But for the game, I love the people can do that. I love the people don't have to be dependent on a distribution

source to get their music hurt. So in your world, what is the, Perfect. What's your vision of, okay, especially now that you're president. Like, what is the vision to make it perfect? Like, what is your perfect vision of BET? It's good.

To make entertaining programming that people are either doubled over and laughter with or all up engaged in the drama, right? If I can do Being Mary Jane times three and Real Husbands of Hollywood times four. while doing things like charged, the DA versus Black America, which we did last night, you'd be stunned how many people don't know what a DA does, who their DA is, or how they can elect them, right?

And yet, the DA has more to do with how people get charged and go to jail than the police. Everybody's focused on the police and African-American interaction. It's all about the DA. All the police do is deliver you to the door, right? The DA decides whether what you have in your pocket is going to get you probation or a 20 year or get charged for 20 years. And so when we get to do programs like that, I love that as well. We did a, I think a great show on O.J. Simpson, whenever we talked about O.J. Simpson, and we went back to the hood where O.J. Simpson came from and went from that perspective.

So if you can get people to think about your programming plus double over laughter and be involved with the drama, that's the thing. And then, of course, the big award show. So on a smaller note, I'm just curious, how do you, on a smaller note, I'm just curious, how do you? I'll decide what you're going to syndicate because I know you guys have like Wendy Williams and I think you do scandal I thought you did scandal you used to do scandal yeah but that's just interesting too because I always thought it was interesting what shows you decide to do that with because BT now has so many original programming but how did you there's a lot of hours in the day you got you got to fill I think every kind of all cable stations are building that model of you you you syndicate a bit you do a little bit of original programming and then sometimes you do some do some

tempos and so you know with that same thing we want to you know we got scandal because that was drama there everybody was all up in at the time wasn't that too soon though yeah I thought that was really soon that that started was being syndicated because it was like or you just wanted to beat the pack yeah but but that's the way that's the way it's happening now things are coming on things are coming on getting syndicated sooner but but there's challenges around that because now you can find

almost like with with videos you can find them wherever you want to on your device or wherever yeah I would have lost that I don't I don't lost that fight I would I would have lost that bet 10 years ago so we said 10 years ago I'm going to give you something to size your phone and you're going to watch a video not just a video but you're going to watch something for a half an hour, two hours, straight on this I'm like, no, no, no, it's not going to happen.

But I'll have lost that, I lost that one. I lost that one. I like scandal. You do? It's not an original programming, Steve, you got to, you know. It's syndicated. That's okay.

All right. He likes it. Hey, Mikey. He likes it. He likes it. So I would be remiss if, I didn't bring up kind of

the the the controversy well not the controversy but I mean obviously in some people's eyes they you know there's people that like thank God for BT

and they focus on stuff I want to see and then there's another yeah the criticism the criticism first of all I hate that BET uncut went away

I know you do I know you do no and I'm going to tell you you why I'm just keep running with you I like BET uncut because it came on at a time when no children should be up anyway you know I mean and so like it came on so I was one of the supporters you know regardless of whatever I was one of the people that defended BET for uncut I'm like listen we all watch these songs it birthed us some of the greatest songs what that thing smelled like come on my black Jesus it's still a personal favorite of mine you know I mean they had a whole

Oprah episode about y'all. Like that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, when they brought all the rappers and the Spelman girls and they Oh yeah, that shit. That was amazing. There was a rumor like I guess a year or so ago that BET T Gun Cut was coming back.

There it is. That was an April Fool's joke. But the thing. Wait, but hold on, hold on. And so it was split between people who were like, ah, that's very funny. And people were like, I can't believe you're not bringing back. But wait, wait, wait, wait.

The way cable television is now, it actually might work. Because, I mean, like, FX and A&E are being very, very more relaxed about language, nudity. Yeah, I mean, it would never work because you can get it online right now. The only reason it would never work is it's available everywhere now. That's the, you know, it wouldn't be a surprise now. It wouldn't be a shock now if it were on, but it just wouldn't rate well.

And that's the thing. B.T. Uncutt was created because there were all. all these videos we were editing. And again, I come from a place one. I want people's artistic. They were right. I don't know what the laughter's about. No, no.

I'm thinking about you. Because I had a vision of my head of you editing Nellie's tip to a video. And it's like, do we take out a swipe? Or do we leave the swipe in? So we'll come back to Nellie's tip. But the idea was like there's all these videos coming. We have to edit them so people can watch them during the daytime. But you want to see, they have artistic.

artistic expression. And then to your point, like, let's put them on later so they're just uncut. This is just it. We can't put porn on, but, but, you know, we don't want to. But we can't. We can't close to look at. So it was for videos that it kind of existed,

but in there, and we play them in the natural form during uncut and then the edited form during the day. The challenge came when people started making videos for, specifically for uncut. World Star before. And so that was the, that, That was the challenge that people were like, oh, that's the way we're going. We're not even going to work because everybody wanted to get on daytime.

People were like, nah, not worried about daytime. I just want to get on cut. And uncut was it, whatever, it was a rating success. It was a rating, it was, it happened, glad it was. More than midnight. Oh, midnight. Midnight love. I was great, but.

I knew so tip drill is the one everybody looks at is the video that was kind of made for uncut. And it was and that kind of, that kind of, it was the tipping point. It was the tipping point. It was the tipping point. He was the other tip of my tutorial point was when I realized how popular it was was on 106 in Park. Paddy LaBelle came on 106 in Park. Oh, my God. And said, my favorite show was Beat Tunk.

Oh, Lord. And we thought she was doing this a joke. And so I forget what she, I think she just offered it. Oh, yeah, I watched that. My favorite. What was her favorite jam? My favorite video is what that thing smelled like. Oh, I'm trying to.

And we'll be right back after this commercial. We'll be right back. Time to this commercial. Come on. We can get a home. That's awesome. All ages. Man, that was a Negro spiritual.

I love that. From Indiana, thank you very much. From Indiana. Ball State. But I think people have criticized BET in the past. And I got to say that when people bring a BT, I cut them, like, we took that off like eight years ago, seven years ago. And usually when it comes to people, things that people criticized, it's things that were seven or eight years ago. So it's tough, you know, I think people who watch it now,

and that may be when people checked out, so I don't follow them. If you check out at a certain time, then that's, you know, I checked out a radio 20 years ago. I still think I can play whatever I want to want to. And y'all diversified, too. So now I don't have to watch BET proper. I can watch BETJams or VET, you know. If you want videos, we got, we got, you know,

hip-hop, you want BET Jams. You got your soul for BETE-T soul. Black woman, we got Centric. Y'all, congratulations about, can we just have a moment for Centric when you to start, I'm guessing, when you decided to really make it the Black woman channel, like that's, it's only like a year ago since y'all did this campaign? Yeah, about a year, a year and a half, year and a half. Fantastic campaign.

I'm glad, thank you. Yeah, no, I tried to hit a job there, audition and everything, but that's a whole other thing. But I wanted to. God, and now you're here. And now I'm here. Thank you, Mr. Hill. Stuck and peg it to me. But why?

But explain, because, I mean, you know, why we just. Because there's no other entity out there really focused on. black women exclusively, right? So the point is for Centric is whenever you go to Centric, no matter what time of day it is, no matter when it is, if you're a black woman, you're going to go there and find something that appeals to you. And while there's other shows on different channels, you know, every once in a while, like, you go to Centric and you're going to find that hopefully 24 hours a day.

That's the goal behind Centric. I appreciate that. I'm glad you all made the switch. So, you know, anybody who, you know, bashes BT, I think, or criticizes, I love criticism. I want to be clear. Like, honest criticism, you get sharper,

you understand what people, folks, I love that. But if it's from eight or seven years ago, seven or eight years ago, I'm just like, well, watch it now. If you still have the same criticism, then let me know.

Like, I'm going to say, I used to be one of the heavy criticizers of BET. Still, I'm too, but I've started watching a lot more recently because I got cable again. Congratulations.

Yeah, thank you. You got a job. Pretty much, I got a job. The programming definitely has changed. quite a bit and I think the big difference is just the music videos aren't there and I think that actually might have made the channel better. Well, if you don't, yeah, that's hard. That wasn't a question, so I don't feel like that.

You don't know. But I'm with you. That was called gotcha compliments. I'm saying that because, you know, you would turn on BET all times a day and it was just almost always all music videos. So now there's a lot more variety of, you know, I don't want to listen to music all the day. you know so you know I can turn on catch a house painter you run

or scan or scan or yeah and too I think too it was something to be said you know like a buddy mine you know we were talking he had his theory of like how you kind of just grow out of things right so it's a funny thing with BET where

it was for me it was a thing where when I was a kid I watched BET like all day like that was I mean I was Rap City video LP video Vibrations Midnight like I was screen scene screen scene oh my God

I was on call that. Yeah, Screensing. If you want to even take it back further than that, you remember tell me something good? Tell me something. Oh, was that one? Where was that? It was a game show. Oh, my God.

It was a game show where people would call in. No, I missed that one. What? I was not there then. This was like 87, 88. Oh, we still talking about the... I missed out. This is late 80s.

Y'all passing Angela Stripling years. I can't deal with that. No, this was Angela Stripling years. Oh, okay. Yeah, Andrews Stribling. Robin Breeden. Who was back on the radio? Oh, Robin Breeden is on the radio.

They would show the reruns of the show Desmond. You remember Desmond, the Jamaican? I have like four seasons of that. But as a kid. It's syndicated or not syndicated? Some of it's on DVD. So, yeah, it was from back in the day. But I would watch it as a kid and like that was all I would do.

But then it got to a point where I kind of just grew out of it. You know what I'm saying? But now as an adult like in my 30s, you know what I'm saying? Now I watch it again. So it's like there's content for me there. but it was just that middle fun that funny part like kind of in your 20s where it kind of lost me.

Maybe it's kind of us just growing out of it and you know. Just what he just said. Growing out but then, but you're transitioning back in. Is it because your BDLs never really played on there too? No, I didn't. I don't want to watch the shit just to watch my video.

I don't have any regrets of the tortoise and the hair journey only because like you know i look at all my peers that did get instant rotation love and they're kind of on the side of the road with broken down vehicles and and plus demon it's about it's about the long i admire well yeah yeah the the your your your your your your childlike enthusiasm for uh music when i see you in concerts and everything all that stuff but um having witnessed you at several BT Awards

I wonder how you keep so cool, especially this year. Now, hold on. I was randomly on Facebook the other day and somebody posted a video of, actually the Jackson's posted a video of their performance at their final performance at Michael's 50th anniversary thing.

And halfway through, halfway through, there is a clear-as-day shot of Stephen Hill just going crazy in the crowd. Yeah, I remember that one. Yeah, that was great. I always know you are because you're the most enthusiastic audience member ever.

It's true. But, okay, now this is where the suit in me wants to know. Like, when you're at the BT Awards, I would be losing my mind every second. Only because it's like, it's such a down-to-the-wire, is this going to work?

Is this not going to work? because, you know, you can't be there as a fan watching this performance. You have to trust in your director. You have to trust in the creative people. You have to trust the talent. I mean, do you not have anxiety on whether or not blah, blah, blah, maybe they're playing or not, or if there's a plan B or plan C, or, you know, we got to cut this part of the show.

We have to edit that part of the show. Like, just the things that I now know in television production that drive proprietors and bought. is crazy. You never have that on your face, but I know. It's an answer. For this year, anybody, anybody who works with me who's hearing this is like, perhaps he doesn't know who Stephen Hill is. Maybe he's looking at somebody else's face. No, no, no, no, because it's always, it's always poker face time.

Now, for instance, now this year, with the passing of our king, um, um, Oh, Mr. Hill. You, you took a very, no, I mean, you took a very bold stance with the tweet. That was the best thing. Yeah. Right during the board. The shade. But here's the thing, though.

Raimir was on stage. You. No, he was off the stage. Okay. He had cleared the stage. Yeah. And the way you insinuated that. I just meant it wasn't, it was shade toward the shade.

Yeah, I wasn't on stage with them. I introduced them. I know you'd stay. Can we not say what this is in regards to? Oh, are we allowed to? I don't know. I'm asking you. It's in the past, isn't it?

Oh, because she's my manager? No. We're referring to the Madonna performance of a program with Stevie Wonder. Can I clear something up? I wasn't talking about the Madonna. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What I was talking about is if you're going to,

if you're going to be real honest about it, If you're going to tribute Prince, if Madonna had been, I'm going to get myself in trouble. Work on it. Madonna had her tribute, but it would have been awesome to have someone else cover another aspect and have someone else cover another aspect. Okay, now here's this thing.

So people took it. It was me against another person. It was just like, as a tribute as a whole, we got you. It was really like, that's how that came out. I didn't take your tweet as something to Madonna or Stevie. But I understood where you were going. But here's the thing, though. The timing, though.

And you know, I know the timing was uncanny. As a fan, you know Prince well. You can actually see me in the audience. You know Prince well. You know what I mean? You know his music well. And being as though it's slim pickings out there. when you said we got you, I instantly got worried because it was like, wow.

Okay, now the pressure's on and everybody is betting on black. Okay. And now all I'm thinking is who do you have in mind that can even come close to what Prince really means? Fourth letter of the alphabet? In 1961 or 62, John F. Kennedy went to Rice University, gave a speech, said, guess what? By the end of this decade, we're going to put a man on the moon. Oh, yeah, yeah. People at NASA were like, what? We don't have the technology. We don't have the capability. We don't have the people. We cannot get a man on the moon by 69. But sure enough,

in faith and like you believe in your people that that happened i had a feeling that you would be that i was going to lose sleep no no no i had a feel no i had a feeling that you'd be on board that's that's that's that's the that's the that was the that was the that's the that's the foundation i'm dead serious that's true the foundation was was that i had a feeling that some other people would come on board and with our knowledge and our respect for that guy and knowing how much our audience was going to want it. I just, we just, we didn't have the tools at the time,

but we knew it, we knew that it existed, right? And so, Janelle, we knew would be on board, right? We knew Janelle would be on board. So wait,

are you saying none of these people were confirmed when you sent that, that, oh, no, no, no, nobody was confirmed. Oh, no, no. No, we, had had our first conversation.

No, we, you were, I wasn't even on board. No, I mean, I knew I was coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing was, when he did that, I just I'd sat in my room for like almost two days like I was like wow like oh you just thought you weren't asked who no no no I knew I was going to be a part of it so I instantly got an MD mode which was like who because the thing is is that the people that I feel that are close to Prince's talent

aren't names and as a suit the suit in me was like who has a name that that's a name that that will really bring him justice. Oh, a name. Oh, a name. But I was like, Below to me was just so obvious. Right, but it was a sell. Right. It was a risky.

All right, when I brought Below to it was, I didn't bring him to you personally, but I brought him to the producers and everything. I was like it. But was it a, okay, he's going to hit it out the park or was it a, I don't know if our audience is ready for him yet? Or like, what are you thinking in your hands? head as we're bringing this.

How on, okay. And I forgot DeAngelo was a part of this. Okay. How deep, how deep do you want to go into this? I totally forgot. Oh, let's, let's talk about it. Okay. We're good. We're good. We're good. You sure.

Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm not being an adversary. No, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had. And so, uh, de Angela couldn't, couldn't, couldn't make it. Right. And so there was, I remember exactly where it was. We were on the phone having this call. Sorry. Let me let me back up. I love that John F. Kennedy story because it's just a story of faith and of sort of desire. And like, if you can get people together, you can go towards that goal.

And I knew enough people loved Prince that we would be able to go towards that goal. And the Prince was the star. Faith versus science, by the way. Fair enough. Now I'm thinking of calculations. Or believing that the science exists. We just haven't found it yet. Right?

And that's what it was. That's exactly what that was. I'm glad you phrased it that way. It was having the faith that the science. is going to follow that faith, right? And that's exactly what this was with the Prince thing. But knowing that you were on board, true, was a big part of the foundation.

And that Prince was the star and that we knew. You picking your words. No, I'm not picking my words. It's just, it's just. It's like watching me talk. It is. And I'll say this now, a happy accident. Look, the tweet was we had a feeling that

that it was going to that that that tribute was not going to be fulfilling. We're not going to fulfill all the things that you want around that. So we thought that

maybe to get a little repress. Prince is the star and now you just got to find people who love and respect to them enough to pull it off. They don't have to be the,

we didn't need the biggest names in the world, right? We needed the people who respected the music. Right? We started that tribute with, and I love that people

picked up on it. We started that tribute with Ballad of Dorian, Parker, right? Which is a... It's an album cut. It's a deep album cut. There wasn't any histrionics around it.

Like, Erica just sang, sat there and did it. Because we were setting this, like, okay, this is going to be a Prince should be for real... This is for real Prince fans, but we're still going to deliver you top-notch talent. And you were the person who I never thought it before. You know, it's just one long verse. There's no... That's the thing. By the way, when you said that, I was like, I've known this song for freaking 30 years.

I've never thought about that. It's just one long. verse. I was the suit and he was the creative one because when they said, yeah, let's do Bala Dorothy Parker. I'm like, wait, there's no hook to it. What part do I take? You guys won't let me do three minutes. I know, like, I'm instantly thinking

in suit television producer mode and not in creative mode. So it was just, but you were so cool about it. Like, break the rules for that one. And then once, once the Angela left out, we actually, if I remember correctly, we both came to Balal independently and we're surprised that the other one was going to go,

it was going to go. I was shocked that you were going to let me do it. You were like, well, Blowlow. Great. And is that what a revolution took the league? Because ever since then, Below's been doing like gigs. Oh, no, no. We knew that was going to change.

We knew it. We knew it. The second that happened, then every member of the revolution, minus Brown Mark, hit me up and was just like. That was so dope. Thank you for that. And I felt like super justified. and at least like

dot not I don't want to say like I wanted to dodge the bullet I wanted to hit the target but y'all felt the whole country go yes yes but it was risky because the thing is is like I'd rather in my mind I would have rather done non-popular

print standards so that I wouldn't get judged like it's hard for you to have an opinion about slow love or you got a just stop trying to impress the orgers, the Prince Org people, man. Not even.

I mean, but yeah. Yeah. But I mean, but I think it's harder if you just say, all right, when doves cry in 1999, like I felt more for Sheila than anything because she was going for the hits. She was going for the juggernaut. So she and Janelle.

And Janelle put that, I thought she put great artistry and great showpersonship to it as well. with costumes and dance across the stage. And, you know, it's great music performed by, like when Bilal did beautiful words and got down on that floor, like, we knew vocally. Well, you know what I really-

You knew it, but America didn't know. America didn't know, yes, but, but, and that's the point, the cool thing is, we talk about exposing new artists, like he's not a new artist, but like, people understood who he was that night, right? The same way, you know, candidly, the year before it was Tori Kelly.

Tori Kelly was the one no one knew, and then she stepped out to sing who's loving you. It was like, oh, got it. Yo, is it getting more challenging? Because you know, one of the things that people look forward to with the BET Awards are the tributes. So you have pretty much, like, I mean, I just remember the year you had Alexander O'Neill come out with Shirel. Is it getting more challenging or is it getting more fun? Or is it a combo of both trying to decide who are you going to do and then who's going to sing? It's always fun.

It's always fun. It gets a little more challenging. We love the, you know, we love the reunions. But surely you're planning it now. Like, how far in advance do you... You have to plan seven months in advance. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's conversations being had already.

Here's a good idea. I'm going to give you the way the biggest secret. More than anything else, more than anything else on that show. You know, you know, and we mentioned him earlier, or a member of the band earlier in this conversation. I want to get Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, he back together so badly. It's the thing.

It's the thing. It's the thing. It's the thing. It's not worked out yet. And I don't give away secrets. But if anybody out there, if you can get Tony, help me get Tony, Tony, Tony together,

I'm all the way, all the way. I want to pick the set list, too. Is that it? You got three at all. Like, is it Tony, Tony, Tony, is it? I'm going to play my ex-girlfriend. Oh, my God. My worst girlfriend is a hoe.

It's a ho. Sorry, Steve, you had to be there. Before Little Walter? Wait a minute. You don't know that song? Is that before Little Walter? No. No, that was on Sons of So.

Son's a soul. Oh, yeah, no. No, you didn't just look at me like that. That was the album with Anniversary. I know you know that one. I do. Why you got to play me with the single, yo? Because she was six years old when it came out.

16. That's true. But I know all a Lucy Pearl album. I'm just joking. That's a joke. I'm just, I'm just, I said, hey, little Walter. The Lucy Pearl album has some credit. I did me some credit.

I was a joke. If anything, well, who else would you like to reunite? Is it too late for Ready for the World? Yes. Damn. We can't do like a straight night, like, ready for the world. We're like surfaced. Well, it's going to be the 30th anniversary of New Jack Swing, so I would imagine that.

Can we talk about New Jack Swing for a second? Yeah, let's do it. Because I feel like that period of music has been sorely overlooked. I think it was something that you had to be there for. Like, it's a hard sell to people in 2016. You know what I'm saying? Because the music was great, but, like, I mean, it was kind of hokey. You know what I mean?

Now, like, listed the bass lines and the drum program. Like, I mean, like, for example, like the foreign exchange, the cover we did of Stevie Wonder, if she broke your heart. One of the main reason why I wanted to do that song was because I thought it was a great song. Took the new Jackie out of it. Yeah, just take the new jacket out of it. Oh, all the jungle fever. You know.

But those are great songs, but just the production of the time, it, you know, it didn't serve them well. Right. It didn't age well. Side note, yeah, that's the one thing I beg from Stevie Wonder's people. Like, can I have the masters to Jungle Fever? Jungle Fever? Just so I can take the drums away and put what I think he would do in 1973 to it.

Yeah. So has that? Lighting up the candles. Lighting up the candles. Without new jack drums? Yeah. So no wrecks in effect. We'll get back together. We could just make the new jack swing song.

We got them back together for the Soul Train Wars a little while again. Damn. We did. We got back for the Soul Train ones. How do you determine what Soul Train will get versus what? Very good question. It's a very good question. It's a very good question.

Are you allowed to say what your baby is and what your stepson is? You mean in terms of war shows? Yeah. Because then hip hop honors isn't. I'm not hip-hop harder. My favorite, my favorite. I don't need no disrespect. My favorite is celebration of gospel.

Because if you can't sing, don't come. Oh, wait a minute. That's a real. If you can't sing, don't come. That was the fourth category I wasn't even thinking of. No, celebration of gospel. If you can't sing, don't come. Anytime, I actually, you know.

Wait, has gospel into the room where we might lose good singers? I don't know. I love God. You heard that song, right? No. It was a choice by a good singer to do a song. I respect that. That's fine.

But you've got a saying Concelebration of gospel. Right. That's, we just called, I just want to call the Yolanda Adams show. Nah, real right.

So between, my eye, when I, when I see Yolanda Adams walk into a room, my eye smile because I know my ears are next. Right. She is,

she just, is just a gift to sound. So between BET Awards and Soul Train Awards, how do you, and both of them are your responsibility. Yes.

But shout out to, I meant to say this earlier. You talked about how to keep calm head. We have the best production crew in the business with Jesse Collins, entertainment, and Jenae, and Connie Orlando, who oversees it most directly for BET. It's just the best in the business.

So I'm not worried about people missing flights because if they do, Jesse will find a way to rents a prop plane to go pick them up. You got to get a crop doctor. He has done that. I forgot who he did that too, but he told me a story of getting someone

last minute. Absolutely. So I was like, oh, they get it. Private planes? They get it done. No. No. Croft dusters. I said, I said prop. I say private. I said prop. Okay. Back of the 50s. But Soul Train, here's what we try to do with Soul Train.

Soul Train is really about the soul. Like it's, it's pretty hip-hop free. And it should have a groove. That's why Roe James worked so well on it this year. Anderson Pack, who's kind of in between, works on it. Una. worked on it.

Drew Hill worked on it. Eric, by due year? Yep, Eric if I do you this one. A applause for that choice too. I don't know how you...

Oh my God, yes. She's fun. We had Drew Hill, we had a tribute to Teddy Riley. Yuna, Roe James, Eric Brunei, because that song,

Sunshine is just all that. Okay. Speaking of which, yeah. Okay, I kind of know the answer since I'm working for them. But is there any chance in hell?

Even if it's not on BETT proper for you to really develop, I want you to develop a midlife crisis BETT channel for me. All right. What are the elements of that show? Well, I just, I need living single reruns. I mean, yeah, forget the rerun list that we have. That's endless. But I need.

the anxiety of 1158 a.m. on a.m. on a. knowing in two minutes that the Soul Train animation is coming on is one of the most thrilling moments of my childhood and I know... 12 minute in Philly? Occasionally 12, sometimes one in the morning. Gotcha. But yeah, I just...

I need a... What VH1 was to MTV back. in the 80s what it was meant to be. Oh my god, can you imagine that? Like one time VH1 when they were playing Paul Simon and video hits one. Was the Chevy Chase video. Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah, the

conservative white guy channel. Now it's like Don't worry, be happy all the time. That's funny. Yeah, but I just I don't I feel like Soul Train and the interest of Soul Train could still have life into it. It's

possible. And I know you, I knew I was not going to escape without having that question asked. But it is possible, as you know, that BET and Soul Train are joined. Joined now. Yes. If you need anything, let me know. So are we talking about new episodes of Soul Train? And if you're talking about classics, do you stop at the Shamara more years?

Or where do you stop? Soul Train to me is 1971 to the last episode, the Commodore's episode of 1993, which was Don's last show. Okay. The Commonwealth was still around in 93? What was the show? What was the song? Their last song was

I think I'd locked off at nightshed. Brickhouse 1990. Oh. It was a very, it was a very, don't play it. Oh, I remember 19. Don't play it. Please don't play it. I've never heard the song on my life.

And if you can't find it, just play Night Shift. Play say yeah about the Commodores. Yeah, so I don't, I don't mean for my personal collection, though. I'm talking about, I still think there should be a sole train app for Apple TV and Roku and smart televisions. We are exploring all sorts of opportunities with Soul Train brand. We understand how iconic it is and how much it means to so many people who not only experienced it, but just heard about it from their, their elder generation.

So there's, there's, you know. Nice statement, Mr. President. Unfortunately, Don didn't have clearances or, or, you know, so there's. Oh, licensing issues. We've been working on it. It's like four years already, I think, maybe. The Wonder Years of Black Television. Maybe like 300.

Some episodes have been totally cleared, but I think the whole goal is just to have the entire. We would be great to have the whole entire catalog cleared. But after the Soul Train episode goes off on your Midlife Crisis channel, what's, what says you just? I think he just wants all Soul Train all the time. Is that what you're saying? Just two episodes of Soul Train a week that I program. And then what else is on the channel? Right.

What else is on? Whatever y'all want. There it is. Kung Fu flicks and, you know. So basically you want it to be Bounce TV. Yeah, but like that I can get. That I can get, you know. Has Vicerland and Revolt had any effect on,

I mean, I don't want to say effect or impression or have you guys, is it in your peripheral at all? Does it matter? Is it anything that they're doing that you're like, I would suggest you watch Deezer Miro on Vicerland. What's what? Deezis and Miro on Vicerland. Yeah, it's a future of black comedy right there.

He's actually telling the truth. Okay. Okay, but so has Vicerland or Revolved? She's like back to my question. Yeah, I was getting at that. Because I appreciate VICE's different approach to media. And I'm hoping, you know, to freshen things up. I think they freshen things up to use that term.

Revolt is I think it's an awesome exhibition around music We just not do that We do that on kind of jams and soul But not really the main one anymore I was just curious It's funny because we were talking about noisy the other day And it's funny It's a really great show in a way

However, as my mother said When she walked in and then walked out When she saw what was going on It feels like, what do you call that? Cultural Tourism? So I was just asking because there's some things that we could do without it feeling that way We, you know, we, and people overuse this term, but, you know, absolutely authentically black is what we, what we are, BT.

We, we are, we are the culture folks, other folks read about it. Speaking of which, you went to the White House this year. Yes. Actually. Yes. We had a blast. I forgot. We, okay, I was talking about going, you know, us going to the world.

But then I forgot. you were actually there to witness everything. Okay, let's talk about the actual production of the show. I really want to talk about the afterwards, after love and happiness. Did they approach you, how did you? So shout to Janine Liebert from BET, who really has been working with the White House.

Look, the White House, you may not, I guess you can believe it now, But White House has this great collection of black women who work there. Yeah, I've seen the article in essence. There's a great collection of black women with whom, like a bunch of people to be to your friends, especially Janine. And so it was like, look, we really want to win, you know, that thick of the election is over. We want to air something.

It's like just a great goodbye party, just a throwdown. There's no, there's no rhyme or reason to it, just have fun. And so two years in the making, they were like, yes. And so we were honored to go to the White House. be part of the last musical celebration. They've had them over the years for country, and I think they were one for Memphis, for Memphis and, you know, backrack and how David had one.

And so this was just one for BET. And so, a man was on board, Roots and Janelle Monet and, De La Soe and Usher. Joe Scott. De La Sole, requested by the president of the United States. How crazy is that, man. I think Mace almost said a tear when I told him that. Who else was requested?

Well, we all were requested. But this, okay, so I guess the rumor was that, you know, what's on his iPod? And, you know, he wanted to see that come to life. But it's kind of weird knowing that the leader of the free world has a root song on his iPod when he works out in the gym in the morning. And which one? I'm trying to figure that one out because I'm like, It's probably here I come.

Aren't we this Sunday? No. The Sunday afternoon. I can count maybe four songs that are over like 100 BPMs. Like I thought we were the relaxing evening song. Sometimes I just want a job. Maybe part of his cool down. Maybe on the tape of a part of the cool down.

Maybe who knows. Yeah, who knows? Who knows? Yeah, but we were there. We had a good time. He had a good time. It was classy. It was he said he wasn't going to sing and then he sang at the end.

I think he grabbed somebody's mic. I was just Mike like, love it, happiness. Yeah. Don't want you bad stuff. Wait, my favorite moment, though, was, okay, so I'm sitting in this section with De La Sol and with Common and we're watching BBD do poison. And so at the White House. Yeah, at the White House. Wow.

And like all seven of us are collectively looking at each other like, we're. Well, we know there isn't a radio edit version of this. So how are they going to handle the low pro ho? Dog. Oh, that's the only one? Low pro ho? I was watching. I was watching First Lady.

Oh, I know she said. Did she say it? I ain't going to say it. I ain't going to say it. Dog. It was the most magical moment of my life. It was kind of. Watching her.

It was arm movements too, right? The loco ho. She cut like an afro. Like, all I know is that obviously. in 1990 that must have been their jam when they were dating

each other in Chicago because there was just levels of Roger Rabbitdom going on that I like doing the re- Did he get on the back?

Did he get on the back? Did he get on it? Let's not make it to do a comedy moment. It's not a comedy moment. Yeah, look, I'm just saying that that was the realest moment I've ever seen Potus and Flotus

and she mouthed the words and I was, just like, does she, like, is it? So let me ask, I'm sorry, I just had many questions. So she mouthed the words. So was she mouthing the whole song? Yes.

What she's singing a song? And then she just mouth that part. Me and the crew used to do it. Right. You will never see it on TV. When the local home. Yeah, I was going to ask. You will never see it on TV.

But you guys filmed it. You will never see it on TV. I meant you will film. What I meant to say was y'all filmed the event. Her earlier events. She sang every word, including I mean, we saw us your social media, so. There was so much energy around that.

You know, you were like it was, it was, it was palpable. It was undeniable. It was, I think you're right. That had been their song in some point in time. And that's why we introduced it. We kind of introduced this like, well, you know, the first movie was do the right thing. But, you know, we imagine at some point in time you guys danced to this.

And they jumped up. Yeah. So y'all had a full, I'm sorry. So y'all are not telling this story, you know, and letting your turns. So let me ask, you said you introduced it. So you introduced BBD to the crowd. Like, literally you're on the stage and you're like, okay, coming up next, we got a song. I thought that was obvious.

No, I'm, no, it's not. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Because we said it. Yeah, they said it. But I didn't believe that you said it like that.

Yes, we said it. That's exactly how you said it. Yeah. Oh, wow. We talked about their first date. And then we imagined that at some time during your courtship, this was your song. But we didn't know it was true Because once it happened

Because the tone of the night was like Yes, Jill, yes, yes, yes. And yes, Janelle and yes, yes, common, yes. You know, it was a very positive. And then when the snare drum hit, it was like a pajama jammy jam. So am I to understand there is going to be a televised part of this

which will have the Jill and all of that and stuff And then the other stuff was like their after party for later. There was, the after party. So the BBD was not the after party. The BBD was the televised. It was the show. Oh, yeah. Okay.

So that's what you're saying that she didn't see that. Wow. Wow. You really couldn't figure that out? I really did not. I love you, Leah. Thank you. Because somebody at home is with me.

Aren't you? That's okay. No. You be safe in your zone. Another dumb question. I'm talking to the people right now. Well, we're, it's fever's at an all time line. But my point is that.

that there were three versions of that performance. There was B.T's, there was BPD's performance of it, which was flawless. And there was us looking at each other. I wish there was a camera just looking. A reaction camera? At between Paz, Mace, me, Tarek, Common, Dave, Tugoy, everyone's spouses, everyone's, like,

we were just looking at each other, is this supposed to happen? Are they allowed to say it? And then looking at her, she's mouthed in the world? Oh my God, they know poison? Like,

it was just, it was the craziest moment I've ever seen in my life. Thanks. No, it was bedtime. Okay. It was BT uncut time.

It was BT uncut time. I could tell by the video. It was the video vibrations reunion time. Yes. The fact that Usher did not have to take that video down just showed the rest of the world that you know what? He read to go.

Yeah. And he don't give him. or what. Yeah. He's going to be audited next year, but let that happen. All right. So, Fonte, man, I learned today. What did we learn today?

Man, I learned Stephen Hill as a lot more musical appreciation than I realized. You know what I'm saying? This is the first time that me and you have ever really have to have a conversation. And, you know, it's. It's always funny. And again, you know, you answered it earlier, just, you know, the people who are in position or who are in power in their program.

And it's like the things that they have to program, a lot of times it's very different from the stuff that they appreciate in their real lives. You know what I'm saying? So I just, you know, really appreciate the opportunity just to sit and clear their air and just to really just talk about music just as fans. You know what I mean?

When you talked about going to see Radiohead, I mean, dude. Yeah. Like, br. Manchester, England, July 4th and July 5th. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. You got your tickets already?

Absolutely. Wow. No, I'm sorry. No, but I'm going to get them. I hope you have better luck than I did with the New York shows. Oh, they sold out like that. I think the server crashed or something, and by the time it was back up, it was sold out. That's Stephen Hill, Bill.

So not, man, no, no, no, but I want to be clear. I got online. That's how I went to go see them in Amsterdam. Oh, so you don't? No. Raise balls. That takes the fun out of it. Oh.

I'm sorry, getting free tickets is the fun part for me. You're trying to tell me. That's what you're used to it. Sometimes you're just a fan, though, right? So sometimes I was online at four, because they went on sale at 10 a.m. in every place. So I was up at 4 a.m. on waste.org. I think it's waste.org.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Waste.org. Get my tickets for Radiohead for Amsterdam last May. Absolutely. But, dude, you're... Sometimes you do it as a fan. Like, I'm a fan of music. Like there's sometimes I'm not going to say like I never dialing in for tickets I'm going to see Maxwell and Mary I'm dialing in for tickets right?

Yeah. But there's sometimes you just want to have the entire fan experience and with Radiohead. You know, like I'm afraid that knows the management that knows the- I do. I do absolutely. But if it sells out, you're going to call them, right? If Stubhub and everything else fails and I really want to go, then I will. But that last resort, that's last resort.

But that's last resort because with them, it's just like I'm a fan. Damn, that's what I learned. I learned that Stephen Hill really is a fan. He wants to pay for it. Sugar Steve. How are you doing? I learned a lot about Stephen Hill. I learned a lot about radio.

I learned a lot about PET. What I found interesting was your, it seems like from day one, you got this charge out of breaking new artists or new songs or new music from your college radio days. And now still, even up until now, it sounds like you're doing that still and still getting that same rush from it.

I found that cool and interesting. I set him out of breath. Amazing. Okay, I'm a save Lai for last because, no, you're D.C.'s finest, you know. So boss Bill. Yes. What did you learn today, bro? I learned about hitting the post.

I didn't know there was a term for that. Did not know there was a term for that. And Postmaster General. Yeah, Postmaster General. So Amir's going to be hearing a lot about hitting the post in the future. I can't be FedEx or... No. I can't work in the mailroom?

Hitting the post. hitting the post wow thank you Steve for introducing yet another task for me to master you got this my pleasure oh gosh all right laia what's have it uh you do such a build-up that if i don't do something i feel like an idiot um i was gonna say i'm learning i'm learning that uh you can leave radio and go to greater and better things however i'm still learning how to do that because it's interesting it was when you said it was a time when like people really appreciated radio people's opinion like MTV and those times have changed so I am learning that I am appreciating Questlove um I I think I in that way of leaving radio and transitioning to something better that's what I

meant oh okay you meant me as the radio show not me as in Amir Thompson yeah okay thank you and I learned you should never lose your passion and your spirit about radio me about music in that way because most radio people, we start out that way, but sometimes the business jades you a little bit and you know, you don't listen to music for a while and that's what I've been doing. So you kind of encourage me to never... That's not just with radio though.

It was like if you worked in the music industry... Yeah, in the music business and you've been hurt and fired a couple times. As you know, you're like, I'm going to take a break, but no, I'm going to keep it going. I learned the importance of front selling. I learned the importance of backselling. Finally, finally.

I learned that all of my authority figures, figures at at Pandora are relieved that I've learned those things I've learned that this two shall pass word

and we will have a prosperous new years and we will have a prosperous year and a prosperous decade and a prosperous life and you know life goes on life ain't over We still need to end with all right by Kendra Gouma. I was going to say Outcast, hold on to be strong.

I'm with that too. Wait, can we, who are we going to end doing just an interlude? Wait, do me favor. Can you front cell? All right, right. You want me to try and hit the post? I want you. Because that one starts, it fades in.

I know, it's just, okay, here we go. You're going to front and back sell, Alcass, hold on, be strong. That'd be like one and the same thing, right? Yeah, you got a minute, by the time. A minute, 12 seconds. You ready? Wait. Fronts tell me.

Fronts tell me. It's playing. No, it's not. It is. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. You're tuned in Quest Love Supreme. As we wrap up this fine, fine episode with our guest, Stephen Hill tonight, we want to leave you with some, uh, some uplifting words from the cast about outcast.

This is, hold on. Be strong. on Pandora. That was out with Hold On Be Strong. And I'm taking over. Join us next week for another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Yes, we hope you enjoyed us. Thank you very much, Stephen Hill.

I appreciate you. This has been a blast. Thank you very much, Judge, all. Everybody else. Hold on, be strong, y'all. Hold on. Be strong. Quest Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio.

This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

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This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

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