The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Terence Blanchard

Episode Date: June 27, 2026

As we celebrate the final week of Black Music Month 2026, revisit this 2021 episode of Questlove Supreme featuring renowned composer, musician, and arranger Terence Blanchard. Blanchard's 30-year creative partnership with Spike Lee has made them, in Quest's words, "the best combo of film director and film scorer." While his work on the majority of Lee's films is remarkable in itself, it represents just one chapter in an extraordinary career spanning film and television. Recorded as Blanchard prepared for his second Academy Award nomination for Da 5 Bloods, this conversation finds him sharing the true story behind his incredible journey with Questlove and Team Supreme.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What's up? It's June, and that means it's black music. month. And every year on Questlove Supreme, and now the Questlove show, we honor it by bringing you an episode every day that celebrates Black music, its history, and its impact. My team and I have selected episodes from our archive that we feel are especially relevant to the celebration, offering history, insight, and a little fun along the way. So be on the lookout for four brand new episodes throughout June, each connected to the past, present, and future of Black

Music. We're going to highlight Trailblazers. innovators, cultural conduits, and revolutionaries, whose work continues to shape the world around us. Happy June. Happy Black Music Month. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove. We have Team Supreme with us today. Laia, how are you?

Fast. Good. I'm good. I'm excited about this episode. I'm good. I like, wait, Laia, are these the same glasses you always wear? I always feel like you have a new pair of glasses. I wonder every time I see you.

No, I got like four or five different moves. You know, this is the pink and gold because I'm feeling the thing. I see. I see. Lord. Where the money reside. Where the money reside. So your stimmy came through.

Nice, nice, nice, nice. Got the $200 for the classroom. I only got the $600 one. I'm waiting for 14 and wait for 14. Okay. I see. Sugar Steve. What's up, man?

Nothing. That's great to know. I appreciate that. Unpaid Bill. Man, everything is good. You mentioned earlier that you are fasting? No, I'm not fasting. Thank you for pointing out my lack of religious fervor.

Thank you. He's just not drinking. I'm just not drinking. That's the same thing as sort of fasting. Today. Today. Fontecal little? I'm chilling, man.

I'm chilling, man. I've been looking forward for this one. I'm a big terrorist. as your fan. So this is, I've been waiting on this one, man, for real. You just gave away who the guest is. Well, that's good.

That makes my intro away shorter. They do with it's on the episode, too. Our guest today is a renowned composer, musician, trumpeter, one-time member of the Lionel Hampton Orchestra and the world-famous art-blinky jazz messengers. Not to mention a composer of two well-received operas. But it's his near 30-year association with the great Oscar winner. I'm sorry.

I was like, Spike Lee winner? Finally, yeah. Yeah, yes. I forgot. With Oscar winner, Spike Lee, his association with him for the last 30 years is probably, in my opinion, probably one of the best combo of film score and director that I know. For real. in cinema history

and that's just not blowing smoke. He's up for his second Oscar nomination for scoring, duh, five bloods, duh. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme, the great Terrence Blanchard. How are you?

Yes. Good man, what's happening? How are you guys doing? Doing good, brother. Good to see you again, man. We met like years ago at the Grammys. This is probably like 2010. My group for the change was nominated. And we met it like the little dinner or whatever. And you were still, you were one of the coolest dudes there, man. Like, you were just super chill and everyone else. I remember a lot of other people, they were kind of, I don't know whatever,

but you were just super down to earth. And I always remember that. Very hoity-toity, but you was folk. So I really appreciate that, man. Wait, can I ask a question, Fonte? What's a? Wait, the Grammys throws, they throw dinners? Well, it's after the joint.

So, like, so at the time when I went, the one and only time I went, because I don't really need to do that shit no more. So the time it was in the Staples Center and like it was they have the pre-tale little dinner. The governor's dinner. Oh, the governor's dinner. I was about to feel some. I'm like, wait a minute. I'm going to play Oscars. Yeah.

Okay, the governor's. Okay, that, okay, that makes sense. I thought there's an award. I'm sorry. You're right, Terrence. Nomination dinner thing that I never knew about and I've been in this joint for 20 years. But they should make a documentary about the pre-awards because in that room is like the The people with the best liner notes.

Like it's the fucking craziest room you've ever been in. I met Amy Mann in that room and she was just like chilling. She got nominated for best liner notes. We're like, what did you get nominated for? She's like, best liner notes. I was like, that's not a thing. And she was like, it is a thing. It's totally a thing.

And that was the first time I met Jimmy Jam because he handed me my Grammy. Best day ever. You know what's funny about you saying that, man? I've been going to the Grammys a number of years. And I remember when the pre-show was just, that man, it was a pre-show. Not too many people went. But now it's like the hang, dude. Yeah. It's when the real musicians go. And like people get fully dressed up like and it's like two in the afternoon and you're like fully. They're like fully. The Tejano guys are like bright red.

They're ready to go. Like everybody's ready to break. Right. Yeah. Like we yeah. It's Bill. I was going to say I was going to say that in my maybe six times that I've done that I always. wind up sitting in the Latin section. And I was going to say that the snark and energy that that section has, every time Jose Feliciano wins their award. It could only be one. It's better now. It's better now.

But there was a point where, like, by my fourth year, I was like, I couldn't wait. I was looking forward to just sitting in the Latin section. so I could hear them all get mad because, you know, sometimes when you, well, the voting system is way different now, but there was a point where everyone had access to everyone's category. And this is like before 2010. And you just vote for the name you know. So in the Latin section, it's like, oh, I know Felice Navid. I know Jose Feliciano. So let me vote for him.

And that's how he would like 20 years in a row just win that category. Meanwhile, like the most popular artist of that genre just like sitting there. He didn't even though he put out a record that year. He just, he didn't have no idea. He definitely had no idea. Where are you right now, Terrance? I'm in New Orleans, man. I mean, I moved to L.A.

You know, because I'm teaching at UCLA, but, you know, my home is not really ready yet. And I needed to work and begin at the beginning of the pandemic, man. I just came back home. I've been here for a year. I'm going anywhere. Okay. Wait, I'm glad you mentioned New Orleans. So I will say that the last time that a musical giant from New Orleans was on our show, which was Bramford Marcellus, if you know him, you already know what I'm about to say is true.

No one loves to deflate the air out of any jazz urban legend balloons that I fantasize about more than Bramford. So, like, everything that, you know, everything that I tried to romanticize over, like, what I thought music and jazz and musicianship was, like, he would just gleefully deflate that, no, that wasn't, you know. And I think I always mess with him. I said, man, you must have failed debate class in high school. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So I was saying, but basically.

the one thing that he totally deflated my balloon on was this notion that I was fed when I was a kid about obsessively practicing and you know I brought up a story about the time when his brother won a Grammy and thanked his dad for like making me practice and da-da-da-da-da so you know

I grew up with this thing where my dad was like yo five to ten hours practice practice practice like you know straight backstage dad stuff right and you know for the record I'll say that David Murray is probably the only jazz figure that I met

that has lived up to that myth where he told me like he practices eight to ten hours a day with his acts so I'm just this is my first question I'm just asking from the gate is the notion of the obsessive musician waking up at

5 a.m. and practicing the scales and an exercise and going until 9 p.m. like before a gig, is that just some myth that's been planted in my head that was never real, you know, just to keep me off the streets by my dad or? But he's be single and don't have kids. For real, for real. You heard. No, no, no, no, no, man. Look, I get up early and I do get to work.

I mean, I'll come in and I'll start working because my studio is kind of separate from the house. so I can make some noise and I disturb people. But it depends on what you're dealing with at the time. There are moments where I get up and I practice all day because I know that I'm trying to get in shape to do certain things, you know? And then with my career, since I'm composing a lot, man, there are moments when I'm just sitting in here writing. You know what I mean?

I had to do some rewrites for the opera. I'm sitting here working on a television show right now, and I'm getting ready to start working on a film. And, you know, So this is where I spend a lot of my time. I think the most important thing about it all, bro, is just to figure out what's the best way for you to be effective. Because you can sit down and practice for five hours, bro,

but if you ain't really focused and you're not being focused, you know. And if you're not applying it the right way. No, 30 minutes will do you a lot better. You know what I mean? If 30 minutes are like really focused and accomplish something, you know what I mean? Really. Yeah. Yeah.

Someone told me to practice what I don't know. which well there's a theory behind that yeah but what about muscle memory what about you know whenever you see someone practicing in a movie or an

I already hear the answer my head and it's real stupid but whenever you see anyone like the myth of practicing is like they start their scales and see and then they go up half note da da da da da da da da da but is it is practicing

muscle memory or is Is it strictly just exploring what you don't know? There's two forms. There is the muscle memory part. But the thing about it, you try to build up that vocabulary to the point where you become flexible. So there are other aspects of practicing where it's all mental, where you try to send yourself in different directions and see if your body can respond. And if your body can't respond, that's when you go back to the muscle memory part to kind of really figure out what is it that I'm not doing. Oh, it's this interval that's hanging me up.

So let me come back here and work on this interval. You know what I mean? Until I get that muscle memory down in my brain, and then I could go back to doing the improvised stuff. Because the thing about it, bro, that I like it. This is what I tell my students, bro. It's like being, it's like being Kyrie Irvin, bro. You know what I mean?

Of course he knows how to dribble. But, man, does he really know what he's going to do when he's coming down on a fast break? You know what I mean? Right in the heat of the moment. But he has to have the skills. like execute anything that happens in this brain within the split second. You know, so that's what you're trying to achieve by practicing and breaking it down

into the various elements. Wow. This is this. Bramford just say that to me. It's about to say shit like that. It's about to be a good class. It's about to be a good class. I'm always relating stuff to sport.

You know what I mean? I ain't mad. I get it. It's matter of my pelicans are playing the Lakers right now, but I'm not looking at this screen. You might as well not. We appreciate your attention. Thank you.

Well, okay, so I do have a trumpet question, though, because the amount of times that I've played with serious trumpet players, and I always notice that usually,

I mean, if they're sort of going, you know, hard in the paint, if they'll usually tire out in 40 minutes, like they'll start holding their lip. All right. So can you explain that whole thing like the,

Ambyshire. Amateur. A good sundae? Yeah. The ambiture. Well, think about it like this. You know, you have a piece of metal that's pressed up against your lips other than like a reed instrument, right? I'm taking anything away from read instrument.

I'm just talking about brass. Right. It's a very strenuous thing to have that thing up against your lips and use these muscles, right, on both sides of your armature. So, look, man, that's why that's another reason why you need to practice. You got to condition yourself. You have to get strong, you know? And there's no way around that. That's the thing I try to tell my students, brother.

Charlie Parker said it ain't magic. It just seems like it is. You know what I mean? So, I mean, that part you have to just put in the time in effort to build up the muscles. And that's the thing like this, like, scaring me to death right now because, man, I've been in pandemic mode.

I've been sitting in chilling and, right? You know, I got some shows coming up, so I got to get back in, you know, practice more than set to build back up so I can be in condition to play. For a show that you do, about how long would you say you play by yourself? What do you have to work up to? Oh, man, I'm, you know, the goal is always to try to build up to playing two hours. Wow.

Nothing possible because, you know, you never really claim two hours straight, but that's what that's what you try to put in your mind. And then when it comes time to do the show, listen, man, some of the old musicians were used to always, you know, pull my coping stuff, you know. Say, look, man, why you got to be the first cat to play the solo, brother, let them do you jump out there. You just played the melody. That's a very strenuous melody on your chop.

You need to let him play and you take a break. Go on the side and look cool and just wait in your turn. You know, it's little things like that, brother. Over the course of time, it really helped you to maintain. Because when you look at Miles, man, you know, look, bro, Miles had a doubt. You know, Miles used to play some praise. would stop, but he would take a break. You know, when he would take that break,

it was doing two things. It was doing something musically and it was also doing something physically. He was lying himself to recover. Yeah, I was a trumpet player. I played trumpet like in like middle school, high school and stuff. And so I would always go and watch, you know, I would just watch how they would keep that when you talk about the amateur and my band teacher would always say that it's like a muscle and you had to work it.

And so a good friend of mine, Sy Smith, she's a singer. and she's been touring before, prior to COVID and everything, she had been touring with Chris Bodie. And so I went and saw her at Bodie's show. And Bodie, he does exactly what you're saying. Like, he'll play a little bit and then he'll have a girl come out, play the violin, then he'll play a little more, then he'll play a little bit. You know what I mean?

It's total like attack and release. Oh, so that's them preserving their chops. That's not just being selected we. Wow, that's exclusive. The people don't think that. They just think you're taking an artistic break. Well, it is both. I mean, it's both things.

I mean, because part of it is, you know, it's ingrained in us because that's part of the orientation of what you've heard on all of the records that you study. You know what I mean? It's like miles always knew how to use space. So that's always a part of my thinking just musically. But it serves two practices. You know, it serves an autistic one and it also serves a physical model.

So are that exercises? Are you guys, it's funny. Oh, yeah, there's a lot of exercise. There are things that I do, you know, to sit down and just, and it has nothing to do with music. It's just simply to strengthen these muscles. So, okay, I was going to say, how damaging is it to reach that, okay, let's take a cat, like, Minard. Well, I was going to say Minard Ferguson.

Like, Monart is, you would know is the sample at the beginning of Lord. of the underground, funky child. That's that's Menard on a soft day. That's like, that's Minard playing Mary had a little lamb. So he's just, you know, Minard is closer to like the Clayton Gunnell's Rebel Without a Pause squeal, T, squeal, like he just plays and for the longest time.

What, what muscles or like what powers have to be activated in order to assist in or hit that out the part. Because even when playing with Doc Severnson, who's well within his 80s now, he goes from zero to 10. That's true. 100. It's crazy.

It's crazy watching the play. Bro, if I knew that, bro, I'd be doing it. You know what I mean? Okay. I'm glad you. It's just a different set of muscle group. The interesting thing that I want to have got like that, and I think a lot of it has to do with the formulation here.

I'm not, And this just be speculated. Because when you watch guys who have that high, high range, the law register sounds a little different. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like fast. Those guys?

And it's a different approach. So, you know, for me, man, I've always been like Miles Davis, Clark Terry, Freddie Hubbard, Woody, Shaw type of him. You know, I like those nice brown tones. When you listen to Miles Davis playing that poor game best record, bro, his tone is just immaculate and just... I've been hooked since I was 16. You know, that was back in the days when we used to have the full bar, you know,

in our house that had like the flickering lights when you had the record player on the knee. Yes, yes. I have those. Oh, God, I just hate myself. Yes. Come on, it, man. It's all good. It's all good.

I go up with that. I used to turn the lights off and put on my house, man, and I would sit down in my room, bro, in the front of the house. And just listen to Miles Davis with those lights on all night long. Okay, so with, okay, I'm glad you answered that question because sometimes I'll look at a, at a musician and kind of side eye them because I didn't realize that, you know, you need a certain amount of tone or, or lungs to hit certain things. Now, for drummers. I'm so shocked you didn't notice, Amir, I'm thinking people listen to this are going to be shocked that you didn't know that either. Well, no, I mean, sometimes I just feel like in my head,

My first thing is like, okay, are you just being psychosomatic right now? Like, just play the note. Like, I'm just thinking that. But there is a part of that. You know what? There is a mental side to it, man. There's a great classical trumpet playing in Charlie Saluter. He played in Boston Pops for years.

It's a good friend of mine, man. I was backstage before a show on night and I was doing something. And when I went up to hit this high seat, I was playing for him. I missed it. And he goes, oh, man, stop thinking about it. You just were because I'm standing there. just go and do the thing. And when he said that,

the no came out just as clear as a bell. So there is a part of the psychological part of it. I mean, it does play a role. In terms of like dizzy, because he would always, you know, like blow his cheeks out. And I remember as a kid when I would play, my band teams would always say, like,

you don't do that. Don't do that. You know what I'm saying? We all heard our kids, Fonte as kids trying to be dizzy. Yeah, he was like, nah, don't do that. They ain't, you know, it's going to mess you up. So what is it about,

what is it about, that that makes for, I guess, for bad playing or improper form. Well, you know, the thing about it, it was, Dizzy was such a freaking nature, man, because when you play the trumpet, most people think you try to bring your lips backward. You don't want to do that because that creates a thin layer of skin, right? What you try to, you try to focus forward, right? And we try to do what we, you try to create what we call a pucker, right?

Well, Dizzy, he blew all of the blood vessels in his cheeks, right? Yeah. what you mean. And then after he did that, that's why his cheeks could expand. But when his cheek could expand, what happened? He created a perfect fucker on the mouth. Because he had no choice.

Wow. Wow. And it worked for him, you know what I mean? I don't suggest that. Nah, I ain't trying to blow all the blood vessels in my cheeks. That shit don't sound fun. Y'all, that's messed up. Nobody ever told us kids that.

We would have stopped. Oh, man. I mean. I would suggest that. anywhere. No, no, no. So as a drummer, I know the texture and tone preferences that I have when I judge or do my whatever, 10 second judgment on, okay, they have a good sound, they have a good tone, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But how is that, how do you judge that for trumpet players? All right, so you mentioned dizzy, and I'll give you a weird R&B.

example. So, you know, 81. When did original music aquarium come out? 81. All right. So I was 10 years old when Stevie Wonders, do I do comes out. And of course, you know, he does this big ass buildup. Ladies and gentlemen, and then Disney sort of, in my mind, I'm thinking, damn, with that sort of introduction, I would expect Disney to come out the gate like evil can evil. Like, like, to live up to that thing. Instead, he held back. And I always wanted to know. And I know in my world, I've made a living out of less is more.

As much as I could hold back, I've made. And that takes a lot of faith to not want to show up and outdo drummers and, you know, let your ego start talking to you. But how do you? So, okay, why would you, in choosing, Poor game best. Like, what is it about that album that tells you, like, the tone is immaculate? And I'm assuming that you're speaking from a Jordan Game 6 level of perfection. Like, he's just hitting it out the park.

Yeah, it's a, well, listen, it's a, it's that perfect marriage between, like, tone and expression. Like, it, for me, I prefer miles because I love that tone. But I also love Dizzy and I also love a lot of other guys that had like a more edgy or sharper tone, you know? But the thing about Miles that got me, bro, was, man, the dude said, bodo, do you, and you just got a whole bunch of information in those three notes, just the way he played it. And I think it's because he was so counter to everything else that was going on. Everybody else was trying to, like you said, prove how much they could play. And for him, it was really just about expressing, you know, the lyrics behind those, those, those, those beautiful songs, you know? And it just took, it just caught me, caught my attention from the time that I was like 15, 16 years old.

And I've just been hooked ever since. Now, that's my first impression. Now, when you listen to Clifford Brown, Clifford Brown has a totally different type of sound. But man, there's a thing that's connected. to the way he's phrasing the notes. You know what I mean? There's just an honesty and a purity about it, brother. It just hits me right in my soul.

And I got to say this, brother, the same thing with you, bro. Look, man, with that snedrum sound, bro, your snare drum sound, brad, had me jacked up for a long time. I love it. Yeah, no, seriously, man. Thank you, man. Yeah, no, seriously, bro. It's like, you know, and then you sit down, you got to do a movie and stuff.

You try to pull a groove, then it's like, damn, I can get that snender. I'm sorry. You know they have plugins that have like the Quest Love plugins, right? You know that those exist. Yeah, I've heard. Like if you want that snare, there's like a plug-in. Yeah, I've seen. I've seen.

Wow. Okay, well. Track masses knows about it very well. Oh, Jesus Christ. Right. So, okay, this, this is the, I guess, the perfect segue. Yeah. Now, okay, since you're talking about your fandom for Miles Davis,

in real time, discovering him at 14, 15. First of all, how old were you when you got serious about the trumpet? When I was about that age, you know, I had a trumpet from the time I was in about the fourth grade in elementary school, man. But look, I thought I was going to be an athlete. I thought I was going to play football. And I went to one of those Bayou classics, bro. And I saw Grandma's team come off the bus.

That was it for me, bro. I was like, you big ass dude, follow me around. What position did you play? When I was playing Little League, man, I played lineback, and I played... Not Little League. Yeah, I was sure, you know, what? I thought we were talking about high school and at least 10.

No, no, no, no, no, no. By the time I got the high school, I already made that decision. I knew I was going to be as big as those dudes. I just knew it wasn't going to happen. You know what I'm saying? Wow. No. I was about 14, 15 around that same time.

And that was at the same time that I wanted to go on to the art. arts high school in New Orleans, New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts. And that's where my life's changed, man, because it just introduced me to everything, you know, just culture brown, on a coma, everything. I just, I learned so much. That was the first time, man, I remember wanting to go to school every day. You know, I remember I got sick one day and I had to catch myself. My mom was a boy, you should stay home. And I was like, no, man, I got to go to school. I said, damn, did I really just say that? Right.

But it was like that because I was lying it so much, you know, every day. Okay, so I have a Miles question for you. Yeah. Now, okay, I'll compare it or at least parallel with, all right, let me, my North Star is Prince, so I'll say that. And I irk Prince fans to this day because I will only hang on to 78 to 88. And it will irk them to death because it doesn't validate when they got hip to, well, he made that or not in 1995. for and da-da-da-da-da- whatever and to me it's like you know i i mean every everyone has a streak period i mean you go look at tv wonders discography and say okay this was his streak period so

just now because i i more or less discovered miles in my 20s away after the fact like it's it's different when on the corner is introduced to you as a masterpiece right as opposed to being around 73 to here right so So how We're two-to-babies. We're two-two babies. Really? I'm a two-two-baby.

Yeah. Well, you're a two-two-baby. I'm a two-two baby. Because your age adjusts every episode, so. Hey. All right. Yeah, so you were baby in age. That's a comfortable.

No, but I just mean, like, how, were you able to discern the difference between, like, what were your thoughts on, like, okay, I, are you able to discern. Like, okay, I always clown a song like John, I know I'm going to hell for this. Uh-huh. A song like Jean-Pierre. Yeah. Which. I'm so not, I'm so not a fan of Jean-Pierre.

It's almost like showgirls. Like, I've made fun of that song so much that. Well, let me ask you this. You ever clown something so much that you like it, like a Stockholm syndrome thing? Okay, but let me ask you this. Were you not a fan of it from the beginning or just because people, you know, ran it into the ground? Okay. So with Miles's discography, I decided when I was going to get into him that I was going to go in chronological order.

Okay. Sure. And so, you know, so I started when I was 14. So I didn't even get to like, we want Miles and you're under arrest and all that stuff. I didn't get to there until I was in my 20s. And by then I had, you know, I had adjusted so much of classic Miles that. And I haven't read the books or none of that stuff. I didn't even know about like what he was going through in his life.

But for me, I was just like, I guess this is okay. Like, I mean, I just gave him carte blanche for everything he does is magic and gold. But like, what were you? And I'm so glad I'm talking to someone not named Marcellus because, you know, both of them. For many reasons. Have, have polar opposite opinions on, on him especially. But I just need a. a third party to hit me to that time period.

Well, you know what it was? You know what it was for me? Man, see, I was always fascinated with Miles because to me, Miles is always the underdog. A lot of people don't realize that. You know, and he was? Yeah, man, and Billy Exxon's band, you had Dizzy Gillespie and Fat, Fast and Vowel in the band.

And he was like one of the third or fourth trumpet players in the band. And he wasn't one of the strongest. guys. You know what I mean? Wow. So, you know, he was always like the underdog. So that's why he went a totally different direction. So for me, I've always been fascinated with everything Miles did because I'm kind of like a historian when it comes to him, I guess. You know, I don't know if Histimard's the right word, but, you know, I'm always fascinated by the things that he wanted to do because he was so heavily affected by that earlier period of playing with Bird and playing with Billy Eckstein in that band, that it made him,

it forced him to find this other approach that was totally different from the Royal Eldridge's, Disney Lesbys and all of those guys, right? And in finding that approach, he just all of a sudden blazed a whole new trail. And then you can see he just never looked back from that point. He just kept moving and kept moving forward. And that was his thing. So by the time he got to doing Jean-Pierre, we want miles and all of those things. You know, I wasn't looking for, and I know this may be chocolate as to say, but I wasn't looking for the next big musical breakthrough from Miles. You know what I mean? I was just fascinated by why he made those choices.

And just watching the journey. Yeah, they have, they have to be a reason. You know, I didn't think that I'm, you know, I got a chance to meet him around that period. You know, he saw me play. And at this jazz festival in Florida, I mean, And unbeknownst to me, when I was in Italy, he did an interview with some Italian journalists. And he said, they asked him, so who do you like out of the young players? And he said, I like Terrence. But I didn't know he said this. So, yeah. Wow. Yeah.

So all of these journalists, I come out of the hotel in Perugia and all of the journalists come running up to me, you know, and they said, well, what do you think about what Miles said about you? And I go, you know, it's Miles. You go, so what did he say? Right. Right. Yeah, we talked about it.

Motherfucker. You're right, right. This one in two directions. So after that, he had a show that night, and Al Foster was playing drums. Right. And I never forget it, man. When they came off the stage,

they would always clear paths for miles, you know? Everybody had to step back. And I was standing there, and Al could see, you know, me looking at Miles, and he just knew I never met Miles. And he said, man, come on in the back of me, introduce you to Miles. And when I walked in, Miles goes, Terran.

And, you know, I was like, ooh, shit. And he said, keep doing what you're doing, motherfucker. You know? Wow. And he was always cool with me, man, every time I would see him after that. So for me, I didn't look at him as a person. You know, I always still thought he was always making moves, strategic move. You didn't have to agree with him.

You didn't have to like him. You know what I mean? But he was making moves in his mind. So when I hear those records, that's what I hear. I love to, too. I think those records are brilliant because you don't see anything like that. You haven't seen anything like that since that record where you have somebody of that caliber who's not taking that music lightly, you know what I mean?

Who's really coming at it from a place where he's trying to do something interesting and trying to contribute and not trying to take. And produced by Marcus Miller. I'm not trying to take advantage. That's the thing that I really dug about that record. I love that record. It's one of my favorite records. That's the thing I dig about Miles.

I want my career to be like Miles. I don't want to sound the same if you pick up a record from now and then to pick up a record from me 20 years ago. To me, that's the tragedy. Because life will be boring if you did the same shit all the time, you know? For real. Listen, and you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts. The world's biggest stage!

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Stay close. It's a carac. Listen to learning to be human on I-Had Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Man, one question I had about Miles, and I've talked to, me and Glassboro, like we debated this before, would you say that Miles, because in my mind, the way I came into him, was he kind of the first guy to create what we now know as smooth jazz, so to speak? Like, I know it's kind of looked as a, as a, as a, smooth jazz has looked at as kind of a pejorative now, you know what I'm saying? But at the time when I got into jazz, I was a kid. And so, you know, kind of blue, that was like homework music for me. You know what I'm saying?

And I was like, okay, I can put this on. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, you know. I mean like, Taylor. Yeah, no, I never thought about that. I never thought you were trying to kind of blue on that in that. in that but i can see where you're going with that i never thought about that with miles you

know what i thought you were going to say was was it true that miles was the guy that created like the fusion thing and i would like yeah because those those guys were coming at it from all different angles you know what i mean but i'd have to put some thought into that about the smooth jazz thing because you know even though you know it's funny before you said they're kind of blue i was going to say because you know you you had like uh uh lucky thompson and all of those guys, they were more of the R&B-ish kind of instrumental music. And then I kind of led in years later to like a global Washington kind of thing. David Sandborn, stuff like that.

Yeah. So, but when you threw, you threw me for a loop with the kind of. I mean, that was just me as a kid. So like, you know, we talk about just kind of where you, when you come to the music, what your experience is with it. And so for me, it will come on. And I'm like, all right, this is just chill. Should I do my home?

homework too. I think before smooth jazz, that's a social. There was cool and cool was, you know, Bertha Cool, which is probably a better example of smooth jazz. I, you know, actually, Steve, you are the Creed Taylor expert here. Now, I'm a Creed Taylor fan only because a lot of his stuff is so breakbeat oriented, you know, all that Bob James stuff, all the, you know, all the, all the stuff, even Grover. Like, but I know that jazz experts or the jazz police will, you know, give that a raspberry down in two seconds. But I don't know. We don't worry about that.

We don't worry about it. And you're from New Orleans? Man, we don't know. Listen, but let me tell you something. How did you escape the cult then? No, but here's a thing about we don't deal with the jazz poots. You know what I mean? There's a difference between like a.

upholding something, right, and moving something forward. You know what I mean? Like, well, I'm not teaching it now, but when I was working at the Monk Institute, man, I hung around Herbie and Wayne for over 15 years. You know what I mean? And being around those dudes, they constantly make you think about things. And Wayne Scharter used to say jazz means I dare you.

You know what I mean? So that's the way that I look at it. Wow. I don't like that. I don't like the divisions in music, you know, because we already have too many divisions in life. You know, we don't need divisions of music. As a matter of fact, I remember years ago when I was with R. Blakey, man, we were in Paris. And I don't know if you know what Marble Miller was, very jazz pianist.

We would, we would, I hate to admit this, but we was homesick, so we went to McDonald's and shit. But you think you're the only one that would go to an American president? We've all done that. The French fries and Paris in Europe are awesome. Exactly. And on per diem shit. Yeah. While we were sitting there, man, I remember we heard Nancy Wilson.

We heard we heard some R&B. We heard some classical music. And it was all being played from the same station. Oh, and all Europe. Oh, Europe. You know what I mean? And it was all African-American. American artist, so I'm assuming I was assuming the classical person was asking

and I was sitting there saying, wow, and it was deep because it took us a minute to realize it because when you, you know, you first sit down, you kind of think, oh, this is just going to be like some R&B stuff that's playing. The next thing, you know, it's like Tommy Flan, I got something that's playing. We go, what? What the hell? And then there's something else playing. And I went, see, man, this is what's really cool because then we're starting to see the

breath of who we are as a community, but I'm not this. kind of localized. A mile of thing. Yeah. You know, and it keeps people fearful. It keeps people fearful of trying to experience something different. You know what I'm right? Yeah.

All right. Steve, I'm asking your question unless you're going to ask it right now. Well, I have a question, but I doubt you know what it is. Okay. Well, then I'm taking your question. Okay. I can wait. All right.

Ask your question, Steve. No, I don't want to ruin your flow. I was going to ask, what was the first album that you purchased? Oh, no, that's not my question is, where's your album collection right now so we can pull up and, you know. That's the question. You know what's funny about that, bro? Man, my wife just has some cabinets built,

and we put all the records over there, you know, and I got my turntable over there and everything. I've switched everything over the digital. dude. You okay, Steve? You off the floor? Save that space. You're okay?

No, no, no, no. It's not, you know, you know. I'll talk to you guys later. No, I get it. I know a lot of dudes like that. I get it. I get it. You know, it's interesting, man, because I felt bad one day, man.

When my kids, they were little, they're grown now, But when they were little, I felt bad, man, I pulled out the turntable and I gave them some records. And the watch them put the needle on the thing and with such amazement in their eyes was like, I went, wow. Right. Right. My daughter just found CDs yesterday. She's like, what are these? I was like, really?

Yeah. And then she took them. She took them and she used them to paint on. They were like to paint to make art out of because she didn't know what to do with them. It was a moment. I can't deal with that in my mind. A good friend of mine. A good friend of mine.

He used to start records here. He had a store in a one of those years ago. We were over at this house hanging out. And my daughter, Sydney, who's living in Brooklyn, man, he knows she's a musician. She's a songwriting and everything. So he pulls out in one of the first Sony Walkman. The yellow ones? No, the one.

Remember that first ones? Yeah, the boom. Yeah. And he gave it to her. What did she do with that? What she did? I told her, I gave her this long, long lecture about you don't even know what you have. you need to respect what it is, you have, blah, blah, blah.

Because it was in pristine condition. Oh, wow. Yeah, it still worked. I mean, you know, she has it, she hasn't wrapped up in her room now. I didn't let her take it at Brooklyn. As a music piece. I feel like you got some bragging rights real quick about your kids, though, because I didn't know about your daughter that's a songwriter.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. My son actually wrote some stuff on one of my albums, man. You know, he's a great songwriter, too. Jay, Jay, Ray. He does poetry, right? Yeah. What's his name? Because we're about to follow him.

Terrence, what's their name? Jay, Ray, Oliver. But the Ray is spelled like, R-E-I. Okay. And then what's your daughter? My daughter's like, her name is Sydney. But she's got like Tom girl or something

that's her handbook on the IG. Okay. That's fine. I just wanted to know. At least we can find her myself. I just wanted to know what they're first record with a band called Priest. The birthday.

You know. What's her band called again? Say their name again? Priestess. Priester. Yes, priestess. Okay. Yeah, nice.

All right. Yeah, but, okay, so what was the first album that you purchased? Oh, man. Well, okay. Okay. I have to clap right. See, and it was funny because you were talking about Manor Ferguson. See, I was a big Maine on Ferguson fan when I was a kid.

So some of that stuff was some of the first stuff I bought. But when I really started to get serious about jazz, man, it was Miles Davis, It's funny, My Funny Valentine Live and Brown and Roach, Max Roach and Cooper Brown. Oh, with Jackie on it. Yeah, that's my shit. Okay. I used to wear those records out, but I got into jazz early. Yeah, because, you know, living in New Orleans, man.

I mean, you know, you're just exposed to all of these great musicians. You hear guys playing instruments all the time, you know, so you just kind of, it's just in your system. Can I ask my question now? I mean, it's not related to vinyl records or anything, but your actual trumpet. Yes. For people who have seen you play live or on video, it looks different than a normal trumpet.

And I think me and our viewers might be curious, what's the difference between your trumpet and quote-unquote normal trumpet? And like, does it have anything to do with the, you know, the mouthpiece especially looks different? Is that have anything to do with a? what we were talking about earlier, the physical aspect of having it. A little bit. I mean, it's made by a guy named David Monnet, and the model is called a Roger. I'm sorry, R-A-J-A.

And what he does is when you see it, it has a lot of thick bracing on it. And the reason why the mouthpiece is there and it's actually removable, but it takes a long, long time to unscrew because what he's trying to do is to try to create a really tight fit. So nothing really vibrating. breaks in the metal. But when you get to the bell, he makes a really, really large bell that's dense. And when you pluck it, man, it rains, right? So that's the only thing that resonates on the horn. And his theory is that by keeping everything else so rigid, the sound goes through the horn rather quickly and creates a broader tone coming out the bell. And what about the physical aspect of, is it easier on your, on your mouth? No, I mean, it's the same. I mean, it's the

saying, I mean, he would like to tell you it's easier because, you know, it's slotted better and blah, blah, blah. It's still a trumpet. It's still a physically demanding thing. You know, there was a great trumpet player. I mean, I was telling them, I said, man, I'm trying to get to the point where it doesn't hurt. He said, man, it hurts.

Let it go. Man, what is the difference between, I used to, I mean, play and I still never really knew trumpet, cornet, and fluegel? Well, I mean, both of all three of those, it's really about. tone. I mean, they're going to feel different just because of the tubing and everything. Fulghorn is going to feel like really kind of open. It's, you know, cornet, for me, it feels a little more restrictive, you know. But it's just about tone, you know, and it's kind of interesting because I haven't played

a cornet or flugan in a long, long, long time. I guess the notes are still the same as the trumpet, though. It's still the same finger and everything. Exactly. Gotcha. Exactly insane. It's just different. Why did art farmer stop playing Trump?

and only play fluegel horn exclusively. He did it. He plays a flumpet. Yeah, he came up. Well, the same guy that made Mount Horn made his horn. And he came in between a trumpet and a flue horn. And they called it the flumpet, you know. And it was designed to kind of bring those physical signways together

to create a tone that's kind of in between. But he had, he had, that was something. And a lot of that is like in your head, man, like what you're trying to hear. You know what I mean? And that's the beauty of any artistry, you know, that's what I try to teach my kids. It's like, I can't tell you who you are. You know, I could just give you the tools to kind of help you to develop your ideas. But who you are is you're an individual.

You have to do that investigation yourself. And the more you do that, the more you're trusted, the more you'll start to see that maybe you're not like somebody else. Maybe you do like a different tone. Maybe you do like a different setup on your drums than somebody else. And that's okay, as long as you're expressing what it is you want to express. No, I was just wondering if you still play other types of, if you play other brands or models of trumpet or just exclusively the one that we see you with.

Yeah, just the more than, you know, I haven't played a horn that plays for me, at least plays as well as his for me, you know. maybe it's just because I'm accustomed to him. But there's a certain, you know, Maurice Andre was this great classical trumpet player from Paris, man. And he made a comment one time and it stuck with me. You know, he said there were moments in time that he would play, that he would forget that he had a horn in his hand, you know?

And sometimes we're playing the Monnet, it's kind of like that. You know what I mean? It's like the trumpet is just what it is. is, it's an instrument, man. My trumpet teacher always used to say, you know, he was, he would, he would point to the trumpet, goes, what is that, man? What is that? And I always given this scientific answer, man, you know, like, oh, it's a two minutes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He goes, no, man, it's a mirror of the mind. It's a mirror of the mind, you know, and that's the way that I kind of look at it with his horns. When I'm playing his horns, I don't, I get to the point where I'm not

thinking about playing the trumpet. You know, it's about trying to convey an idea to an audience. Growing up in New Orleans, especially at the age in your formative years, what was your relationship with pop or soul music at the time? Like cats, I saw, you know, cats that I grew up with in the 70s. Yeah. You know, they were, you know, they were looking to like pee-wee from the Ohio players or like, William King from the Commodores, like, every high school wanted to play, like, love roller coaster, that sort of thing.

Like, what was your relationship with just modern music at the time? That's what it was. Bernie Warwell. Yes, indeed. Roder, Pulmonary Funkadelics, Earth went in fire, cool in the gang, Mandrill, you know, all of those groups, man. That was the stuff that I used to listen to. As a matter of fact, I used to play keyboard in the pop band. when I was in high school and really dug it.

You know what I mean? I had a lot of fun doing it, man. And I continued to do it. You know, even when I got to college a little bit, we used to do a lot of that stuff, playing those gigs. And I always had fun. Listen, man, I've always loved that music. You know, that's why I love Prince so much,

because Prince to me was like a throwback. You know, obviously he'd come out of James Brown. You could hear all of that stuff. You could hear, you know, where he paid reverence. A lot of people had come before him. But the thing that I liked about Prince is kind of like Miles to me. And that, you know, with all of those albums, bro, he was trying something different. And he was always finding something new to express, you know.

And he was unapologetic about it. I just, listen, man, you know, he was the only artist that I saw at the time that could have like a heavy metal tune and a country tune on the same album. You know what I mean? Right. And it'll still sound like him. You know what I mean? It was like, you had to tip your hat to that.

So Funk and Soul wasn't a four-letter word to you at the time? Never, never, ever. Okay, so now I'll go back to my original question, because I know that you've had associations with Ellis Marcellus and his kids. How did you, how did you escape the, at least in our perspective, my personal point of view this kind of get out cultish jazz cultish

regime of Marcella's seriousness which you know depending on which Marcellas you talk to is either some of them are wide open or rebellious or some are very much like you must study the book of

you know chapter jazz verse swing you know how did you escape that Well, I mean, listen, man, you know, at a certain point in your development, those things are really appropriate to help you to just decipher information. You know, so when I was a young kid, all of that stuff was really, was really great to make me set out on a focus and practice, you know? But at the same time, bro, I'm still a compassionate feeling person. I'm not going to deny what it is that I feel in my soul. You know what I mean?

I'm not going to turn. I give you another example. You know, forget to my cellars. I'll just go to the church. You know, I grew up in a congregationalist church in New Orleans, man. Andrew Young was a member of my church. Oh, I. Yeah, he grew up in my church, you know.

So it was interesting because as long as I play classical music, man, those people love me. You know what I mean? When I started to become a jazz musician, they used to say, well, you know, that jazz is fine, but you keep up with your classics. You hear? And I'm like, you know, That would always bug me because I love music, period.

You know, there's things that I feel that I can't, I, I will not ever deny. You know, so, so when I'm, when I'm listening to, you know, when I'm listening to when I'm listening to, right, and. And, and Jodice, some of that shit is like, like, really funky, you know, I still feel something just as my much when I'm listening to Pugni's Law Women. And I know people say that as a thing, you know, I don't, I'm not doing that. You know, I look at, you know, this world is a vast world and God has given all of us different talents to express things in various ways. So there shouldn't be one way to skin a cat.

You know what I'm saying? Okay. And as long as you're coming at it from a point of view of honesty and sincerity, who gives the shit? What it is that you're nice. You know what I mean? It's like that that's my personal opinion. For me, I think all of that divisive stuff is a way that it has kept black people separated

from each other in a way that's unnecessary, you know? And I think it's kind of hard for us to see that sometimes. And maybe it's funny because we interviewed M2May and I feel like in a way he had to fight that fight so maybe other people wouldn't because he definitely was vocal about how people felt about him making that transition in the R&B and whatnot. Oh, look, you know, with my band, the E-collective, I heard it. You know, I've been here, you know, when we did a, man, it was funny. It was funny.

When we did our first tour of Europe, dude, it was funny. Every time we go out in the audience and we saw gray hair, we go, oh, shit. You know, it's okay. It's going to be one of them nights. But the funny part about it, man, you know, when the band was start to play, and, you know, Oscar Seaten is the drummer, man, and he's got a strong pocket, man. And when the band was start to play, people will start tapping their feet and they will start grooving to the music and we say, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

So for me, man, music is music, dude. You know what I mean? It's, it's, you know, I don't know, I hate the labeling of things because I've seen it just keep us apart rather than bring us together for too long. And I just wish we could just turn that around. We haven't learned from, like, Herbie. You know what I'm saying? Because Herbie was showing us this years ago. You know what I mean?

You're right. You're right. Y'all was still having a conversation of Mo Better Blues, though. Yeah. Oh, listen, man. Man, you know, when we did Moe Better Blues, it was kind of funny. Because when the movie hit, we were like in the top 10 on radio charts in D.C. Or some shit.

Yes, we was loving it. You're from D.C. this episode? Born and raised Howard University Hospital. Whatever. In this episode. Okay. Just checking. Tutu baby born in D.C., got you.

Today's narrative. So with what would you say is your, you're, well, I know you played with Hampton. But what was your first professional, I made it? I don't have to have a part-time job. I'm officially gigging. Like, what was your first official moment? playing with our Blakey. Oh, so Messengers came first?

Yeah, man, when I was about 19 years old, I joined that band, and I had to leave school. I was going to Rutgers University in New Jersey. And we're Regina Bell, man, you know. Oh, wow. Okay. This is up. Yeah, we were all in school together.

Yeah. Even though she went to Rutgers, that's dope. Okay. I did not know it. Yeah. So what was that whole? Can you tell us about the experience playing with art? Oh, man.

What year was that? Sorry, what year was that? What year were you in the messengers? It was from 82 to 86. Okay. And I tell people, man, I was there for four years, but I age like by 40. I'm saying, I was a young little kid from New Orleans, fresh off the farm, bro. And then my first tour with him was like 10 weeks in Europe, dude.

Wow. Tell us everything about it, man. Yeah. From New Orleans, bro, I spoke a little bit of Spanish, bro. It was a trip just trying to eat. Oh, my God. And then we hit London. the last two weeks of the tour, bro, I was so happy to hear English.

English, right? Man, it was crazy, but it was crazy. But, you know, listen, man, I learned a lot about the world, and I came back. And I remember I came back and I was telling my mom about my cousins and stuff. I said, you know, we need to figure out a way to get these kids to travel to see the world. Because that's a good education, you know, and I learned a great deal. And art was the type of guy, man. You know what I mean?

he had a art art was an interesting personality you know what I mean he he was the kind of guy he could bullshit you all day long but then man there'd be those moments bro where you would sit down and have a conversation about him a conversation with him and bro it would be like life lessons man you know and those were always the moments that I truly cherished having with him because you know it would be like one-on-one in the dressing room and he would just start talking about some things And he opened my eyes to a lot of stuff, bro. And the way I run my band is still based on the way he ran his band. By giving guys opportunities, allowing him to contribute to the repertoire of the group

and to the concept of what's happening with the band, you know, I owe a huge debt of gratitude to that man because he really turned me around, burn, four years, dude. Think about this. four years I met all of my jazz heroes playing with him. Wow. Okay. I met them all playing with him. Yeah, because Max Roach was around

then too, right? Like... Yeah, Max. Okay. We playing this club in New York, Fat Tuesdays, and then the table, and it was a small little club, and then the table right in front was Max Roach, uh, Jack D. Janette, and I think it was Elvin Jones. And the three of them were

sitting there. Oh. You know, and I was like, Jesus Christ. You know, I'm like... Trailed by fire. That's a good table. You know, I'm like in my early 20s and shit. I'm trying to play it off and be cool. But, you know, on the inside, I was sweating bullets, man.

And I remember walking by Max, and Max was, like, really strong, man. And he grabbed my calf. I don't know why he did it. But he grabbed my calf. He said, man, look at the calves on his balls. And I couldn't go no way. That was a funny part. I forgot to tell you that part.

I couldn't do it. I was stuck. I was like, damn. You know? Like next generation sharecropper talk. Wait, Terrence, when you are,

when you're young and you're in this institution. Yeah. How do you not, how do you resist the temptation to not flex? Oh. Okay. So, like when I DJ,

when I DJ, it's me and the audience. But the second one of my peers comes in a DJ booth, then the temptation to like play that rare, obscure Japanese record that I brought that only we get. Like the temptation, the flex. And I know I'm going to lose my audience if I do it. And I might, you know, and sometimes I've given in and just let the audience, you know, Oh, yeah. When we were in Minnesota.

We felt it. Oh. When we went to Fifth Avenue, you were nine Prince fans. Everyone love that shit. The seventh at the first avenue to say. Whatever it is. Anywho.

I get what you're saying. I understand. Because you know, being with art, man, here's the thing you got to remember. That was a long legacy of great musicians that came in that band before any of us, right? So you were already humbled just by being in the band. And look, some of those dudes will come by and hang out.

man, you got, back then, you got to remember, man, Woody Shaw would show up, Freddie Hubbard would show up, and those dudes would just be sitting in the club hanging out. Wow. Damn, okay. All right, man, he's here checking me out. All right. Eddie Henderson was another one. And then the other part of it, too, is that, you know, we really wanted to learn. You know, the hour thing was, but I know my thing was I wanted to learn as much as I could about playing music, Because for some reason, even though I was young, I knew that that moment was something to cherish. You know what I mean? I didn't try to take it for granted.

So every little thing that I could, I tried to milk as much out of it as I could. So I was like a fly on the wall, bro. Sometimes, man, the guys would come by and they'd be hanging in the dress room, bro. And I would just be sitting in it quiet as a church mouse, bro. Not saying the word, just watching and listening to these conversations that's being had with Dexter Gordon or or, you know, Walter Davis or Herbie or Al Jirole came by and sang one time. Stanley Clark will come by and play with us, you know. But I meant more on stage, like what, because I know that if you're in that position,

like the temptation to not to start showing off or, I mean, I'm not saying you could take extra bars or not without art getting upset with you. But like what stops you from showing off or when cats do that? Because I could tell when like if cats notice and I'm watching them, it's suddenly like they're doing extra shit that they don't need to be doing. I'd cure this for that because I used to throw sticks. I mean, he said, stop playing for the musicians, God damn it. Thank you because I paid for this ticket and I would like to see what I thank you.

Because that dude did not pay for that ticket that you're impressing. He got to the back to the back to him. Exactly. They're going to ask you for a free ticket. And he said you're going to have to file their hands off of one goddamn beer. But they're not going to buy nothing. So stop praying for a musician. Get out of mirror.

I love it. I love it. I'll take that. I'll take that advice. I'll tell you this. I will tell you this. Art was a type of dude. If your job, your job was always in jeopardy.

You know what I mean? So sometimes what he would do is, man, he'd bring a dude up on your instrument on the bandstand. Oh. Now, that was when you had to show out. You know what I'm saying? So because... Challenge. Salon.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I remember, I forgot who it was. I forgot who, I don't forget who the trumpet player was. You said, why don't y'all play a ballad together? I want... I don't know him.

Wow. But that was art, man. You know, and then if there ever was an ink, that Art was unhappy with somebody, you kind of knew, because there would be a whole bunch of dudes with that instrument showing up to the gig. I'll never forget one time, man. There was a whole bunch of Saxon play that showed up and they were just sitting on the side of the stage, man.

I was like, damn. And when it got time for Art to let him come up and play, he let him come up. It was about five or six of them. He let him come up and play. And then he called Smitty Smith. Marvell Smith was in the audience. He called him up to come play the drums. Then he went in the dressing room. He was chilling.

He was like, yeah, yeah. Wow. That's crazy. So why did you and Donald Harrison decide to leave in your fourth year with Bart Blakey? Well, we knew it was time, man. And an arts band was a type of band where it was like a finishing school for young musicians. So we didn't want to occupy the space any longer. We knew other musicians should have gotten that experience.

and we had gotten signed the Columbia records. We'd already made a record with George Wien's label on Concord Records, but Columbia, George Butler, had signed us to Columbia, and we were getting released that record. I was going to say, can you describe what, I know many people that work with George Butler, especially like doing that period. Yeah.

What was Butler like as, was he an ANR of jazz at Columbia? Or was he president of jazz? He was president of Enron and jazz. He, man, George was a cool dude with me, man. You know, I know a lot of people had took issue with George. George was the type of guy, you know, he was, he was, how do I say it? He knew how to maneuver, you know? And in his maneuvering, you know, some people didn't like what it is that he would do.

But he was good by us, you know what I mean? And I remember even after me and Donald, the band, split up, he signed me as a solo artist there. And we always had like a really great relationship, man. You know, I had told him, I had told him this very vulgar, funny story one time, man. And, you know, and it was funny because George was a real proper guy, you know. Right. But we would hang out and have some drinks and he'd be like with some friends. He'd be like, oh, Terrence, tell him that story. Tell him that story. Tell him that story. He was a funny dude. I'm afraid to ask for that story now.

No, we can't. Not just because I'm here. You would do it. You would do it if I wasn't here? Because I'm raunchy as fuck. No, no, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Okay, that's fine.

I just want you to know I'm raunchy, so I could probably challenge you. Yeah, maybe, yeah, probably. Okay. Well, at the time, at the time when you and Donald were heading up the band, how are decisions made creatively as far as what direction? direction to go or who gets what or who. Yeah, that was a tough one. I mean, you know, it was a tough thing,

but that we looked at the band as like a workshop, you know, so everybody was bringing the material. And that's basically how we did it, you know. He'd write music, I'd write music. And then the interesting thing about it, like sometimes he would write music and I would be influenced by what he was writing. So that's why the band had a sound, you know what I mean?

Because I think even though we were all writing different material, I think we were all kind of like on the same page music, you know. And then around that time, man, having that band together, you know, Ralph Peterson, who we just lost, God rest of soul, he was like one of the first, one of the drummers in the band. Marvin Smith was one of the drummers in the band and then we had Carl Allen. And, you know, you know how it is. And they're, you know, what a drummer can set the tone for any band, you know what I mean? That was also one of the things that kind of helped state the sound of the group,

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Wow. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I can imagine that you're kind of

instant foray into the world of scoring for movies wasn't exactly like a goal, or at least I assume, so half the time you wind up in places that you didn't plan on, it just happens to you. So how did you even get involved in the world of scoring?

Man, you know, I'm glad you asked that question there because I've been asked that question a lot. Well, not that question. I've been asked, what's a, you know, what would you tell young composers? And I'm always at a loss because I'm like, like, man, I wasn't looking for this. And it just fell in my lap.

You know, we were doing the pre-recorded music for Movedo Blues for the actors to act to, you know. And I was getting ready to do my first record solo project I was just telling you about for George Butler, Columbia Records. So I had written a song, man, for the kids that were massacred in South Africa, and it was called Sinsawaito. And we had taken a break in the studio, and I was playing it on the piano and Spike walked by and he heard it. And he said, man, what is that?

that. And I said, oh, man, this is this thing called Sinksawater. He goes, can I use it? I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And we just recorded just a solo trumpet piece back then. And Denzel shot the scene, and it's the scene when he's on the bridge playing, right? And then they got to, they got back to the editing room. And Spike was trying to fill it in. He put training noises and it still wasn't really making, wasn't doing what he wanted to do. So then he came back to me and he said, hey, man, you think you could write a string arrangement before this, you know? And I always tell my students, that's a moment where, you know, you lie,

you know, and I said, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Sure, hell yeah, I could write the range before, you know what I mean? So, I mean, that's what I did. Cut to. You're right, cut to calling my teacher. Oh, man.

And you got to tell me what to do, dude, you know. You had never done it before. You had no clue of how to do it prior to that. No, no, man. Wow. I studied composition, you know what I mean? but but but I never had to do that and as a matter of fact that's what he told me he said trust their training I was like dude that's not the answer I was looking for trust of training wait so there's there's a

musical motif of yours that I've heard in at least three or four of spikes films um I'm this could be it I've been looking for it for starters like I'm mad that with the exception of Malcolm X, like most of your Spike scores are not available. Yeah, I know. What is the name of the song that it was in do the right thing? It's in Mo, uh, Mo better. It's also in Malcolm X, but I can never find anywhere, but it's like, uh, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, da, da, da, da, it's, it's, it's like,

Spike has used this at least in 10, That's the theme from Malcolm X. But how come that is not a... It's not anywhere. It is available. That's available, yeah. Yeah, but what you're probably singing is the jazz version. There's some other versions of it.

And then... Well, I've heard it as instrumental. I've heard as strings. I've heard it as... Yeah, that stuff, you're right. That stuff, listen, that's a big thing. You know, I was talking to a publisher about that recently, as a matter of fact.

about trying to do something to, because people have been asking me about that. Yeah. When you start to think about your legacy for your kids and everything like that, and, you know, now that we've reached this benchmark working together for 30 years, which is something getting to realize.

As of this year? No, a couple of years ago when we were in a community. A journalist asks us a question, how does it feel we're working together for 30 years? We're like, 30 years. Has it been that long? Yeah. But I was thinking about exactly that, bro, about trying to...

I need a box set. I need a box set of your entire history, every music cue with Spike. Or at least just your entire history, because even the non-Spike stuff you've done. But can I ask you, though, you and Spike? Can you just tell us the quick quickness of that story and how y'all even connected? Well, you know, we connected just because there was a... a musician named Harold Vic, jazz musician, who was friends with his father. And he wanted to put together a group of musicians that were young and old for these sessions,

for do the right thing in school days and all that stuff. So I think it was school days. So he hired a bunch of us to play on it. And as a matter of fact, there's a video, man, that's floating around of one of the sessions. It's like a who's who in jazz at the time in New York. city. It's pretty crazy. And I never forget it, dude. Who was there? Tell us about it. Who was there? Oh, just a lot of local guys, you know, you know,

Bramford was there, John Fattis was there, you know, a bunch of folks. But I remember, man, I was a big Lakers fan, right? So, and man, he just beat the Celtics, bro. So I walk into the first session, but I got my hat, I got my teacher, I got my purple and gold converse on and the Spike and I don't really know Spike. Oh, God. at all, you know. So I walk in and he just looked me up and down, he goes, Lakers fan, huh?

Oh, boy. What's up, man? You know, come on that. That next thing you know, man, he had me out of taking him, you know. So how did that narrow down, though, Terrence? Because you said it was a room full of musicians, dope musicians, local musicians, Mr. Lee. But somehow it narrowed down to just Spike and Terrence. Well, that happened when we started to do, well, there was a couple of things that happened.

You know, Lenny White had, he had this all-girl band. I forgot the name of the group. And he wanted Miles to play on his track. He couldn't get Miles, so he asked me to play a muted thing on it. And Spike used it in the song. So Spike found out that that was me that played the solo. So then we kind of connected on that. And then when it came time to do the right thing, we kind of just connected a little bit together.

But it really happened on Moveder Blues. when we were doing those pre-records. When we started doing those pre-records and hearing me playing the piano, that's when everything started to turn around. You know, and it's been an interesting journey with my brother, man. You know, he is, he's brilliant, man,

beyond belief. He's loyal, beyond belief. And one of the things I got to tell you guys, man, a lot of people don't really know this, man, but I do fights for people. I believe it. He does. He fights for people, man. And I've never seen him miss an opportunity

to fight for African-American artists. Like when we were in London, man, you know, we were at the Bastas, and I'm drawing a blank on my man's name. What did you do? They did the movie about the rock and roll singer. Reddy Mercury. Yeah. What was the guy who played the character?

Rami Malik. Rame Mollick. Yeah. When Rami won best actor at the Basters, you would have thought Spike one. He jumped up and he was so happy for Rami. You know what I mean? Because, you know, we're just trying to break down these barriers, man,

and create equal opportunities for a lot of people, you know? We, man, we'd be in interviews together and people would ask me a controversial question in L.A. And he would grab me. And he goes, don't ask a. that. He said, let me answer that because you got to work in this town. He's always doing stuff like that. A lot of people don't really realize that. And he's, listen, I've met people who have come to me and said, man, Spike is your biggest advocate.

He's been fighting for you to get these nominations for me. That's so dope, man. Yeah. I voted for you. You do. Thank you. Thank you. I voted. Hey, I have two more better questions for you. One, were you Denzel's teacher as far as the fingering and all that stuff? How long did that take and what was the process like and how fast? Man, you know, we had to learn because at first, I mean, I had never done that before. So at first I started making like little videos for him and I would send him to him out in LA.

And that was kind of helpful. But we got him a teacher out in LA just to show him how to buzz. And then when we, when he came to New York, New York, what I figured out was, you know, hey man, I need to write out the fingerings just on a piece of paper. So for all of the tunes, he had like sheets of paper with just the fingers. So between learning how to buzz and the fingers, he actually kind of learned how to play all with the melodies. You know, so.

Really? What's buzzing, Terrence? Just when you take just the mouthpiece and just make the buzz. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Trying to get a sound on. That's how you get a sound out of producing the sound. So is that him playing one again, never?

No. Oh, that's messed up, Amir. No, you know what that is? That's my worst nightmare. You know what that is? What? First of all, you had to be there. It was hilarious because we started, when we started doing takes,

Spike up said, it's not messed up enough, man. It's not messed up enough. Wow. He was actually in the room right in front of me, man. And what I started to do was I started to move the trumpet off to the side of my left where I could never really play, right? Really tried to play, right? So that's what you hear. Man, I'm telling you, in the history of cinema,

short of maybe like a saw film or, or any of those like extreme, gory violent, like, I never sell it, please. That scene, that is my worst nightmare. Oh, really not getting basing your, in your mouth with your own instrument? That's not a...

Well, that leads to it. Somebody going to hit you with a drum? That leads to it, yes. But my second question, I'm sorry, you know what we need to do for that movie? What? What? The lobby spike, because I know it's sitting around somewhere.

We need to have him find the outtakes of Robin. Yes. I was going to ask you, man. I was going to ask you, did you have any interaction with Robin while you on the set? He was a sweetheart. He was a nice guy. But let me just tell you this. Everybody would shoot their scenes and other dudes are being their trailers.

Robin Harris would shoot his. everybody. Everybody was on set. Everybody, every single time was on set. Oh, hurry up and ask your question to me. I want to ask him about that after-party scene. Come on, come on. Okay. Well, I have a question. I asked

Brand for this on his episode, but his answer didn't satisfy me enough because I want to know the science of the scene. So at the very beginning, when they're doing say-hey, Yeah. There's a really genius point, you know, where Shadow sort of interjects and takes over the song, keeps. Or no, no, no, where Denzel's character prevents Wesley Snipes' character from hogging up the solo spot. But to me, that moment of interruption was so authentic.

And you guys kept it on the soundtrack, sort of the messed up. Yeah, yeah. And that part where how was that choreographed because it wasn't like they had to shoot that scene first and you guys are in post following them? So like, but it's so spot on and perfect. Yeah, no, we just did it in the studio, man. I remember, you know, we did a couple of takes of it, you know, where Bramford would just play. Then all of a sudden I would just interrupt. And whose idea was that to make sure that it happens on the soundtrack of all things?

on the soundtrack. You know what, that's a good question. Yeah, well, back then, we were trying to just make sure that whatever we put on the soundtrack was kind of authentic and true to what people saw on the screen. I know a lot of times people take alternate takes and put on the soundtracks, but, you know, Spike wanted people to experience what... See, and I thought that was such a bold move because it's like, even without context, I always wondered, like, people,

for the few people that, like, just had the soundtrack or heard the soundtrack without knowing the context of which that occurred. But for me, hearing that mistake on there was definitely, like, one of the key moments where, like, you know, a lot of my trademarks of what I do musically is, quote, sounding messed up. But for me, hearing that was just like such a come-to-Jesus moment. Like, oh, you can purposely fuck up on a record and it be cool. Like, oh, that's great. You know what our break used to say, man.

Our break used to say I try to make my drum soles sound like a set of drums falling down the flight of stairs. Mm-hmm. I heard that. Wow. Wow. Wow. So with, ask your after-party because I want to ask another scoring. I just wanted to have how many moments you had where they were like, so in the after-party moment,

one of the famous scenes about, you know, get the people what they want. If you play you shit, the people like people to, I would come. The people will come. who is Terrence Blanchard in that conversation? Huh, it's interesting. Well, I'm definitely not totally in that direction, but this is the one thing I will say, and I got this from our breaking.

He said, never play above your audience, never play beneath them, just play straight to them, you know? And that's what I firmly believe. I think there has to be a combination of both things, you know. I don't want to be that jazz musician who's so arrogant to always think that people have to come up to my level to experience what it is that I'm at.

I do. No. You want to meet them where they are. Right. That makes no sense. You know, so for me, I try to create music that helps heal souls and helps to kind of change some hearts and minds about some issues. So if I got to come to you, that's what I'm going to do. And was Pop Top 40 fun to make? Oh, man, we've done these shows around the world in a lot of different countries with orchestras.

And the shows are the music of Spike Lee and we have done. visuals and we'll bring vocalists out and sing all of the songs and stuff. They're very hard to get into, Terrence. And that's one of the hits. Yes. Booty, booty, booty, booty, titty, titty. How, how, um, when you were presented with, uh, a new challenge, a new project, how, how long does it take you to,

even begin to craft what is it going to be? Or is it so shotgun where it's like a gun to your head you're giving it daily and in three weeks you've got to come up with something. You know, man, you know what it's, it's gotten to the point now

where I just tell myself, just start. Just start. You know what I mean? Because I used to freak out and try to overthink things a lot of times, man. And when you sit down thinking too much, you're not really accomplishing anything. That's why when I'm not working, when I'm in between projects, bro, that's when I'm doing my homework on my plugins, on my sound design,

on everything that I need to do. So when it's time for me to work, I can just go ahead and do certain things. You know what I mean? So, for example, you know, I'm working on a project, and I needed to craft a certain type of thing sound for the show. And the first thought of my mind was, oh, I need these types of drums. Let me get these drums up. Boom.

Let me start playing some rhythms. And once I start putting these rhythms in, the next thing you know, that starts a sparking idea of like, oh, I need to create this sequence baseline. So let me get in here and start messing around with the sequencer and the thing and put that together. And I need to have something in the middle. So it's almost like putting together a puzzle, you know.

But the puzzle is like specifically designed for whatever project that you're working on at the time. because all of the inspiration, and this is the thing, man, this is one of the things I would tell my kids. It said, look, man, work at your craft because you never know where inspiration don't come from. Sometimes it's rhythm. Sometimes it's a melody. Sometimes it's just a sound. Sometimes it's a group of harmony, harmonic progressions. It could be a lot of different things, you know.

But if you have your tools together, whatever it is, you'll be able to take it further and find what's fine. You'll be able to flush the idea out. That's the thing that I always used to say. My teaching used to come in all the time. It's like wittling, you know, just chipping away at it. Okay. Spike aside. And our audience should know that you've done many of classic film.

You've done Sugar Hill, the Inkwell, Eve's Bayou. You've done, you did Gia with, what's her name? Gia. Gia. Yeah. I forget. Was Angelina Jolie?

Yeah. Only on HBO. I remember, I believe that you did Friday or next Friday with you. Yeah. What non-spike associated project was enjoyable to you? All of them. Man, are you kidding? All of them.

The Friday series is hilarious. You know what I mean? Right. I mean, you know, watching Mike Epps, man, and those scenes, that dude is funny, though. Those were fun. Working with George Lucas on Red Tails was fun. Right.

I mean, you know, it's about working with Case of Lemons on Harriet. You know, we worked on some other things together, a bunch of movies together. The guy that I did Gio with is actually the guy that wrote the libretto for my first opera, Michael Christopher, you know, doing loving basketball. That was like really a lot of fun. I had a great time doing that. Because for me, man, it's a, it goes back to the thing I was telling you about earlier. It's about learning and expanding.

You know, all of those, all of those projects helped me to grow in a lot of different ways, you know. I'm not the guy to ever think that I have it together. You know, I'm always trying to acquire knowledge and experiences, you know, and I look at all of those things. What was the TV show that I did with Halle Berry? Their eyes are watching God. Oh, wow, yeah, Michael Ely.

Yeah, that was good. Yeah, you know. So you don't do problems. unless you really feel them, huh, Terrence? There's no sense in doing it. As a matter of fact, you know what's interesting about that? When I first got in the business, man, I had to turn down 11 scripts, you know? And I hated doing it, but I had to do it for a reason,

because, you know, all of the 11 scripts were black films, you know? And one of the things that I tried to do was, and they weren't, you know, like Harriet Cuddlin or anything like that, you know? One of the things that I was trying to make a point to my agent at the time, I have a different agent now, was I don't want you to see me that way. You know, I don't mind doing those films. I don't have a problem doing those pictures, but I'm turning them down because that's all you're bringing to me. You know what I mean?

And you need to see me in such a way where anything should be on my table, not just that. You know, and I paid a price for it. I didn't work for a long time. You know what I mean? But I just felt like if I didn't take a stand, they would just see me as one thing. Yeah, they would typecast you. Yeah.

And I hated it because I wasn't trying to make an indictment on the films. You know, you see what I mean? It wasn't that. I wasn't trying to make an indictment on the films. What I was saying was to my agent. It's like, yo, dude, really? I mean, could have a certain part, it became comical. I'm like, 11 scripts, dude, really?

Really? 11? Any notable films that you had to turn down or that you've turned down that were like, ah, damn, I didn't know that Avatar was going to be. I really wanted to do the Miles movie, you know. Biles ahead. I was going to ask you. Bows ahead.

You don't know how to dodge the bullet would double. You did. You dodged. You dodged all day. No, you, yeah, I think he was good to sit that one out. But listen, when they were talking about doing it, you know, Miles, listen, that's my hero. So I get it. I wanted to be a part of it for sure.

Don Chito's amazing. Although I did like what Glasper did for it. I mean, I didn't have no problems with the music. I thought the movie was in. But I really did like what Glasper did for that stuff. Yeah. Listen. And you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts. The world's biggest stage. And breathtaking triumph. 2026 FIFA World Cup.

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I'm always searching for inspiration, for support. and useful tools to help maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover all of that together. We're going to have these meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges that she never saw coming. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression.

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I'm so excited for! You have surprises? Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305 where the group chat comes to life. What a f*** It's like a way Hello, my friend, hello, hello, my brother,

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And it's a part of exciting because their new star is Javier T. Tcherido and Manda is from next day is going to be No, I'm such. Everyone sees me as a football player,

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I'm not, I'm not a full-time score or so. I'm not that deep in the pool. I'm still in the shallow end of it. And shout out to Spike, who got me my first scoring thing with a commercial. But what I do notice is that I'm used to it now, but in the very beginning, I used to be frustrated because oftentimes you're having sort of creative direction conversations with people who aren't necessarily, they don't speak the language. It gets very frustrating. Come on then.

So, but the thing is, is that how do you handle, like I learned early, and it's hard, especially hard for me because I learned early in scoring that drums get in the way. Woo! So I took drums. You know, if you're asking a drummer to score a film and then I take drums out of it, I've learned, like, to stay out of the dialogue's way and all those things. But now I kind of have a new system where, you know, I've dealt so much with people, with people like knowing what they don't. don't want as opposed to what they do want. Whereas I'll just ask them, okay, you obviously have like something in your head.

Something in my. What is? Yeah, give me five songs in your head that you think fits the scene and then I can craft around that. And it makes it easy. But what's your, what's your process in dealing with someone that doesn't speak the language

and kind of makes you go back? Like, what was your hardest task as a filmmaker? We're not gonna go there. We're not gonna go there. No, no, no, you don't know to tell down to them. No, I'm curious. Where you had to go back and do something over again and over and over? No, no, no.

I've never had to had that. It's more along the lines of just trying to find a baseline of communication. You know what I mean? And Miles Goodman, who was my mentor in this business, that was the one thing that he told me. He said, that's what you're really being paid for. He said, listen, man, we all can write music for film. You know what I mean? You know, it's really about following the story and becoming a storyteller with your music.

He said the hard part is just trying to figure out which way to go with that because a lot of times there's so many ways to deal with it. You know, you have to find that common ground with the person who's producing the project. And that's where, you know, a good friend of mine, Mike Post, you know, he's a great TV guy. Yeah, yeah. Mike told me one time, he said, listen, man, he had a project. and he said he was having an issue talking to a director. And I thought this was brilliant, man. He said, man, why don't you come over to my studio?

And Mike would just sit down and play a chord and say, all right, tell me what you feel. And then he would write it down. You can play another chord and say, tell me what you feel. And he created a baseline of communication from that point of view. I try to do more of what you were just talking about. I mean, you know, when I said,

listen, tell me what it is that you're hearing. If you have a playlist, send me the playlist. You know what I mean? Right. And you're always trying to get at the core. But here's the thing about it, though. You know, the people who are coming to you have to be open to stuff too. And they have to trust you.

Yeah, they have to trust you. Man, yeah. And when there isn't that trust, it can be rough, you know. Look, but look, man. But sometimes as a musician, you got to open up your eyes too. Listen, I just worked with Regina King on Miami. Oh, yeah. Miami.

Miami. Right. And, you know, when we first started talking about the score, you know, I pitched a lot of different ideas to her and I sent them. And she said, well, no, I kept thinking, she said, I think it should be just like one instrument. I kept pitching these other ideas to her. And she, and look, to her credit, she checked it all out,

listen to everything, you know, and then she said, because, you know, it was the first time doing it, you know, first time working on. So she went through the process, and she said, yeah, but I'm still feeling this other thing. So we went that direction, and we just decided to just do piano. And it wound up being beautiful. It wound up being a very unique thing. Everybody's talking about the music for the film, you know,

and that's just where me of the film composer, you know, I came at it with a certain thing, but I had to sit back and go, okay, I see what she's coming from. I'm wondering with another director too, similar kind of situation. So both people have to be open on both sides. And when you run into that situation where you don't have that, it's just difficult,

but I mean, there's no other way around it because the word is collaboration, you know, not dictatorship. You know what I'm saying? So that's where for me, I've been blessed, you know, because most of the people that I've been working with are true collaborators.

You know, I've had people tell me sometimes, damn, bro, you gave me some insight into my film that I didn't see, which is a compliment, you know what I mean? Then I've had people, you know, who expand my horizons by getting me to see a bigger picture about how to tell stories, you know? So it's the reason why I love doing this. Have you learned, or has it been your experience, that doing film, composing for film and TV and stuff,

Has it been your experience that that has helped you in your regular, quote-unquote, recording career? Because, you know, because for me, man, like that, you know, as a young man when I was younger, I would take rejection, like, really personally, like, you know, a lot of us do. But then when I started doing stuff for TV and, you know, TV and movies, whatever, it's just, hey, if a song don't work, it just don't work. Just do another song. And you don't think about it. You know, you don't take it personally. It's just like, it don't mean, I, I'm the worst. on writing the words. It's just like, yo, this shit didn't work. Just do another one.

Right. And that's your out, man, because then it's not an indictment on you. You know what I'm? That's the thing. When you realize that it kind of frees you up from all of that other stuff that comes along with that, you know, when you realize like, man, look, it's still in you, you just go try something else. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I go, and listen, bro, sometimes I go through that before it gets to the director. I don't know what I'm saying? I'm sitting there and I'll work on some stuff. And while I'm doing it, I'm sitting there going, well,

it's missing something. It's missing something. Let me go ahead and work on that boom. And I'll do that for a day or two, bro, and then come back and I go, you know what is missing? The real cue.

So let me go back. And throw this away and start over from scratch. Yeah. How has that helped you in your... Oh, the live performance? Yeah, just the live performance and also in recording your records. How is film composition

helps you in that area? Oh, man, look, it mentioned it opened my eyes up to about using different colors on the bandstand. Even when I had my jazz band, I was still putting, using the pedals and stuff on my horn, you know, effects on my horn, and which eventually let me into the E-collecting. You know what I mean? Because for me, like I told you earlier, it's about utilizing these tools to tell a story, bro. You know what I mean? And it's kind of funny, you know, it's like everybody, there's this great guitarist, man. I guess you guys know, Leonel Awakey, played with Herbie.

Yeah, I was going to ask you, yeah, man. I love him, man. He's dope. So, you know, when Leonel was in my band, man, we do these shows, and we'll be playing and have these loops going and all of this stuff going on and blah, blah, and everybody would always come up after the show and want to look at the pedals. You know, and they want to take things for the fellas. And so I said, bro, okay, he's got the pedals, but the pedals are tools.

It really starts here. You know what I mean? It starts in the mind. So that's the thing that film helped me to realize. It's like, you know, are you? You're still trying to tell the story the same way that Miles told the story. And he's not even doing it that way anymore. So, and look, I got to tell you this story.

This was, man, this was funny. But it was a wake-up call for me. So I'm on tour with Herbie Hancock. This was right before Barack Obama was elected the first time. And we were on tour in Europe and we were playing some of Herbie's classic tunes. but he had put these new arrangements on them. So we had Speak Like a Child, and he had put some odd meter in it

and did some other stuff to it. And then one day at Soundcheck, man, he started playing a straight ahead version to speak like a child. So Kendrick Scott, the drummer, he jumped up and started playing. And James Zenith was playing bass, and he started walking,

and Herbie started playing, and we were just sitting there going, ooh, that was killing, you know what I mean? And because they sound like, Oh, Herbie from the Blue Note, man, days. And he was like, yeah, I was killing. And Herbert, you know, we were trying not to make noise because we didn't want Herbert to see how we were reacting to what he was doing. And Harvey stood up and he goes, that just sounds so old to me. Wow. And we were like, yeah.

Try to play it off. Yeah, right. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah, that's a mollusher. How do you, how do you stop from being in, but how do you stop from being in your head? I think oftentimes, I know many are artists that will make all these new arrangements of their same songs because they think that the audience has been there at all 9,000 shows of their entire career. Yeah. And oftentimes, yes, the audience wants the meat and potatoes version of the song that was served to them as they remember it because you're there to serve their memory, or at least the audience thinks that you're there to serve their memory. But how do you stop from going down that rabbit hole of reinvention to the point where you lose the original script?

I just don't do the reinvention part. You know what I mean? I know what you're talking about because and I've seen it do exactly that. So I try to stay away from it a little bit. I mean, you know, every nine and then we might do something. But the stuff that happens with us, it happens naturally. it may just happen over the course of us playing every night guys may throw a little something in that all over the stars from a part of their room but i try to go that road you know because what we try to do is we try to just keep moving forward you know excuse me so for us you know we have a project in that that's in can and now still have to to finish what we did the music of uh wayne shorter with Turtle Island string quartet, you know,

and it's a really cool album. And, you know, we've got to, once we put that out, we'll probably be touring that music. I got to ask before we wrap up about what made you want to create, first of all, how does one create an opera? Yes, please, yes. Even in reading that, like, I don't know, I had the hiccups, like it, I felt,

I felt very overwhelmed. Like, wait a minute. How does one even begin to craft an opera? Like, so walk us through in creating operas and how does it start? Okay. It starts by somebody coming up to you and saying, man, we want you to write an opera and me bending over the table trying to smell their breath and make sure they weren't drunk. You know, I was like, do you have to write dude, me, write an opera?

and they said, you know, the guy Jim Robinson, who's become a really good friend of mine, he was like, yeah, he said, I love the album, The Tale of God's Will, and they were trying to find some diversity and, you know, what they were doing and creating new operas in St. Louis. So once they hired me,

they, listen, man, they were smart about how they did it. So once they signed me to, commissioned me to do this, they brought me to see their season. And I actually just sat there and went to a bunch of operas in St. Louis, right? Yes, St. Louis. Yeah. And then once I did that, then, you know, they paired me.

You know, I started writing some sketches out. And look, bro, it is a daunting task. And the first time I did it, I was so freaked out about it. They had to reschedule my premiere. You know what I mean? I was supposed to open one year. And I said, no, no, no, no, he ain't ready. Let's do another year.

Because I was sick and going, you know, because I was just trying to do so much research and I was just, like, overwhelmed with the whole idea. But it was my composition teacher again, Roger. He said, man, stop trying to write an opera. Just tell a story, you know. And once he did that, that kind of freed me up. And then I thought about something a friend of mine was saying,

you know, he said, listen, bro, go ahead and just write your opera and tell your story. He said, if it doesn't work, you can just say that. It just ain't my shit. You know what I mean? I tried anything for my thing. And I did. And I just tried to be as honest as I could.

But here's the thing. My father wanted to be an opera singer. My father was a baritone. So I used to hear operatic music in the house all the time. You know what I mean? And all of that, all of those tones, all of those lines and all of that development of how an orchestra can have a rush of energy,

all of that was in my system. You know, I didn't really realize. that. You said to tap into it. Yeah. And then when we, when I started, when I had the first draft of the melodic lines, man, we said actually before then you know what they did? Which was beautiful. And man, if anybody wants to write an opera, you should do this. What they did was they had a group of actors just read the libretto like a play and I recorded it. Right? Because then I could hear the story. You know what I could hear it unfold. I could hear their

inflections and the voices and all of that stuff. So once I got the melodic line down, then we just started having workshops with singers, man, and I started learning about how to write for voice because, come on, writing for an instrument, but if I'm writing for cello, the cellos ranges from here to here. You know, I know what that is, you know, but every baritone is different. You know what I mean? So some people call themselves baritone and they're more of a bass baritone. They could produce more low tones, and some other guys are more like in a tenor range.

A tenor, yeah. So I had to go through all of that. But the main thing about it all is that they basically just kind of like ushered me through every step of it. And once I got through it, man, when it came time to do the second one, I just had so I had more experience and I just felt more comfortable with what it is that I wanted to do. And I got to tell you, it's so rewarding, man, because you sit in a room all day writing these lines. But man, when these guys start to move around stage singing these lines and these words and they bring in the lighting and the board. and all of this stuff, it's a really powerful thing. And I tell people, it's the highest form of a musical

that you'll ever see. You know what I mean? Man. I think there's room for all different type of people to experience opera, you know, and I'll just say this, and I'll let it go. Will you do a third? Yeah, as a matter of fact,

there's talks about that now. But, you know, when my opera came to New Orleans, man, It was a bit of a controversial thing. There were a lot of people who were seasoned ticket holders who wouldn't release their tickets and didn't come to my show. Oh. Oh. Yeah, that's cool.

I mean, because the people that did come packed the place. Hell yeah. And when they packed it, I remember this brother, man, he came up to me. He must have been like 75 years old, bro. And one thing he said, he said, man, if this is opera, I will come. Right.

I said, and that was the best compliment I could have ever because what it made me feel like was that's part of what's missing in opera is our culture. You know what I mean? You reach someone who never would have got into opera otherwise, if not for you. Because he could relate to the story. You know what I mean? The story was about Emil Griffith in 1965, so he can relate. And I was going to ask you, why this full circle moment, like, I thought about New Orleans

and I thought about Casey Lemons being, like, the director of this opera. Like, out of all of the directors, what Brett made you. Well, she did, that's the second one. She wrote the libretta. Okay. She wrote the libretta for the second one because, you know, I love Casey, man. And when it came time to do Charles Blow's book, I had to have her. That was funny was they flew us to St. Louis, man, to hang out.

And, man, you know, Casey's like a dog with a bone, man. So wherever you saw Charles walking in, it was Casey right behind him, you know, asking him questions for like three days. but she did her thing. She was brilliant. She's a, yeah. I feel like she's a little unsung, but she's sung a lot of places. I mean, look at what you give

with Harry Tubman, man, you know? Yeah. Oh, I was going to say, man, my favorite score of yours, and I think some just my favorite music of yours, is from a movie that wasn't that popular, but I love what you did for it. Your She Hate Me Score.

Oh, why you do it, Fonte? Why you had to break up? Dude, man, I love that fucking score. That shit is gorgeous, dude. You shitting me? I mean, the movie was the movie, but the score? Man, that's the fuck out of here. Like, man, I'm running it.

And we already was honest with Spike about the movie, so you don't got to hold no pressure. I know. A lot of people who are, trust me. Yeah, but the score, man, I love, you know, what you did and, like, your record with, um, with Raul Me Don, that Adam and Eve and Eve, you know. And that dude, man. Oh, man. Yeah.

You know, it's me playing some of the keyboard lines on that on that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's your boy. Derrick eyes playing bass on that, man. Yep, there is Derek. Yeah. Now, what do you remember recording about it?

Because that melody, just, da-na-na-na-na. Like, I just, I love that, man. I just remember being in the studio with him, and the energy was just, like, on point from the first take. And it just felt like, I don't know how to explain it. I guess you guys have gone through this. You know, you start off doing that track, and it has that energy, and you think that's it,

and then somebody adds something, and it just keeps on. You know what I mean? And that's what was happening with that track, man. You know, man, we just had so much fun. And Raul was open to it all, you know, because I remember there's this little solo solo keyboard line that I played, right, going into one of the transition. And he was cool with everything, man.

You know, so we just, we was just going for it, having fun. Well, I'm predicting, yes, even if it's against my own film. Oh, no, only because. Oh, yeah, Seoul, right. Only because, but the thing is, Trent and Atticus are actually, it's, it's so weird when the Academy allows a nominee to, to come in twice because it's just going to split. They're in for two films.

They're in for Soul. Trent and Atticus are also in there for Mink. Mink, yeah. Oh, I see that, yeah. I personally feel like this could be a year, but not to gas you up on that. But is that, I mean, I know the PC answers, yes. don't get caught up in those things. I do it for the love.

But, you know, it has to be an exhilarating honor to. And as of this day, tomorrow is voting day. So just saying. No, look, man, no, I ain't got no shame in my game when anything that comes across. You know what I mean? I never thought this would happen to me. Are you kidding? Dude.

I thought I was going to be a dude who had a day job and played jazz because I love playing music. So all of this stuff is gravy, you know? And then to be recognized in such a way in and and amongst some of some of the films that are some have been some of the greatest films that have been produced, man, is a huge honor. You know what I mean? I mean, you're right. It's not it's not the reason that we do this obviously.

You know what I mean? You've had a passion for just being creative, period. But, but the honor itself is huge. You know what I mean? It doesn't go past me. You know what I mean? I'm sorry my father's not around to see that. You know, and it's probably a good thing

because they would have to keep his ass off the stage. I mean, everywhere at the show. But, you know, it's one of those things that make you proud for the family, my kids, because they really get a big kick out of it. My wife, man. Hell yeah. When I got nominated the first time, man, I was on the road. I came home.

Man, it was like shit all over the house. Man, it was like, sad to it. everywhere, man. And I was tired, too. I said, man, I just want to relax, man. So, you know, I said, I'm going upstairs. Went upstairs in. We shit all over the bed.

Yeah, because Oscar made Esker O's coming. Extra zero's coming. No, I'm talking about all of the events that we went to. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. That was for her. That had nothing to do with me. You know what I mean?

I just had to sucks. That was it. Yes. You have a lovely wife. If anyone is on their way to an egot or a ghetto. I definitely feel it to you, man. Oh, thank you for a second. I was going to ask, does it mean something that John Baptiste is in the category,

which you're your New Orleans brothers? That's my little brother, man. You know, I've been knowing that dude, man, since he was a little kid, you know. As a matter of fact, one of the nights that we played at the Jazz Fest, we did a night show at the club here at Snark Harbor, and John Batiste was that after entertainment when he was a young kid, man, came up and played a panel behind Herbie Hancock. So when I saw him doing all the stuff, he's been doing.

doing in New York. And we just recently, not too long before the pandemic, did a show together at Carnegie Hall, man. And we texted back and forth, you know, when we got the nomination. Can I just say, too, because I just realized in this conversation that, meanwhile, we've had three people who worked with you on this show from New Orleans, PJ Morton, of course, Tank, of course, John Baptiste. But I want to defend us and say the reason that we waited so long to have you is because, in our

minds, we was coming to New Orleans and we was going to have a real show with Taylor. That is the only reason that it took us so long to get this time. That's okay. Tank, you know, we did a song for One Night Miami. I know. I know. It's awesome. Yeah.

She's awesome. And it's funny because it's one of those things where you want to tell your students. Don't him in her. That woman came in here and did two takes and it was dumb. That sound right. That's our girl. And PJ. Big up to him too.

Oh, PJ too. He was another one. I remember the first time I met him. He told me he was a musician. He was a young kid. I must have been about 20 or 21 years old. And I'm like, yeah, okay. Man, and then for some reason, he sent me some of his stuff.

And I went, who is it? Wow. What? And then I lost track of him. You know what I mean? And then when I found track of him again, he was like, PJ Martin. I was like, okay. I was bound to happen.

That's for sure. It sure was. Yeah, he's a good dude. Oh, man. You know, we have to ask, like, well, last quick, last, last question. Man, the, when the levees broke. Oh. Oh, damn. I totally forgot.

Yeah, man. Like, just talk about that experience, just the emotional journey of scoring that. Well, you know, the wild part about that, man, you know, going through that period in our history, bro, was a traumatic thing, you know, because it was something you never thought would ever really happen in this country. And the way it went down, the way we were talked about is being rushing Jews. It was so disrespectful to look on the television and see people that look like people in my family. and they were being called such things.

You know, it was like you couldn't, you wanted to scream, but there was no place to go. You know what I'm saying? So we were in a, listen, I had to go to L.A. because I had an apartment there, because we couldn't come back to New Orleans. I couldn't find my mom for two weeks. When I finally found my mom,

it's a mom been calling you for two weeks. I said, I heard that thing buzzing in my purse. Uh-uh. Oh, oh. I heard that thing. That's final word for my own. Yes. That's right.

It does. We were doing the music to Spike Lee's movie Inside Man. Yes. Okay. And normally he'd fly me to New York, but he said, no, man, you stay with your family in L.A. And I'm coming to you. And when he came to my apartment, man, he walked in the door. The first thing he said was he didn't even say hi.

He said, man, I'm doing a documentary on those levies, and I'm going to give those people a chance to tell their story. and, you know, my respect for him went through the roof right at that moment, you know, and that's the most comprehensive thing I've ever seen done on all the cultures of New Orleans, you know. And to watch it, you know, we were actually recording the music The Inside Man, that's how he found out that my mom hadn't gone in the house yet.

You know, I was out there. Ah, yeah, yeah. And I come back in for a playback, and then Spike goes, we're going to feel you and your mom going in the house. I'm like, what? You know? And my mom said, well, people need to see what we're going through. You know what I mean?

And that was one of the roughest things to do with my mom because, you know, I had went to the house the night before. I already knew what was up, what was about to go down. And when she said, I hope my house is fine, it just broke, you know, breaks you up. She had a friend of hers who had come home, got out of his car, saw his house, and had a heart attack and died right in front of the house. Shit. You know what I mean?

And so there were a lot of stories like that that were going on. So when it came time to make the record, man, you know, I kept wondering if I was sounding angry because I was pissed. You know, I was just pissed. I kept being pissed. I'm like, you know, this is America. This shit shouldn't happen. Who designed those levies? If it was one of us, we'd be in jail.

You know what I mean? It's just that simple. You know, it's faulty design and people lost their lives because of it. And people lost their homes because of it. So I kept trying to say that. myself, don't sound angry, don't sound angry, but all of those stories, all of those arrangements are kind of based off of stories that happened, you know, during that period. And one of the blessed things about it is that once we did it and recorded it, you know,

and released it, man, this one guy came to one of our shows and he said, man, he said, I lost my best friend in Katrina. And he said, I wasn't able to mourn. And he said, and then, you know, they were having a memorial for him like a year afterwards. And he said, I put your album on. And as I was listening to it, he said, as I was pulling up to the church, funeral dirge started to play. And he said, I just lost it. And he said that was the first time he could ever moaned the loss, mourn,

the loss of the friend. So, you know, when you hear stories like that, you know, you feel like that's why you create music to help people, like deal with stuff. And one of the things we kept saying with that album, one of the things we said with the breathless stuff, with the gun violence, you know, if I, let the music absorb your frustration and pain.

Okay. But strategic about how we move forward, you know, and creating a more equitable life for us in this country. Hmm. That's real. I like that. Thank you for sharing that, man. No, I appreciate that.

Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Unpaid Bill, Sugar Steve and Fontecolo and Laia. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Flowers, flowers, flowers. No, flowers.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Like, all your music, it definitely becomes just like a whole other character in all the movies that you do. And I watch them just as much for your music as I do. For the movies. Like, for real.

That is our truth, Fonte. That is everybody who's listening. It's true. Thank you. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. I love what you guys.

I think, man. So keep it up, man. Thank you. All right. This is Questlove. And we'll see you on the next ground of Questlove Supreme. Thank you. Yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think. And who should be next to sit down with us?

Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. All right. Peace. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for. Why do I watch the walk up? That's like asking me, why do I breed? And it's beautiful. The guys are young and cute and fit.

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