The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: The Family Stand Part 1

Episode Date: September 27, 2026

This early-2020 episode of QLS is among Questlove’s absolute favorites. The incredible trio of Sandra St. Victor, Peter Lord, and V. Jeffrey Smith joined Ahmir, Laiya, Boss Bill, and Suga Steve for a comprehensive and highly spirited two-part conversation. The result is informative, engaging, and often hilarious. Peter recalls that watching The Exorcist left him so frightened that he played the radio every night—and that’s how he discovered music. V. Jeffrey Smith reveals that his famous saxophone solo on Billy Ocean’s “Caribbean Queen” was pieced together by producer Keith Diamond from recordings of him warming up. The trio also explains how the international hit “Ghetto Heaven” grew out of hearing a young Salaam Remi make beats in his father’s basement, how “Rush Rush” began as a playful jab at Babyface’s songwriting style before becoming a hit for Paula Abdul, and how one disastrous MTV Awards performance derailed the momentum of “Vibeology.” Enjoy this QLS episode. It’s truly a classic.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Price guaranteed for two years on a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Lisa? Tell them about our new show. show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s,

I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour.

You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Hey, what's up, y'all? This is Questlove with another QLS classic. Back in April of 2020, Team Supreme and I had a two-part conversation with the family stand. The wildest episode we ever, ever taped.

In that chat, we got Peter Lord, the Jeffrey Smith, and the always, always entertaining Sandra St. Victor. You know, we go back where the music found them in Brooklyn, Dallas Living Room, and Harlem House Party. They tell how three busy session players became one band, meeting through Will Downing, of all people, and a 1986 Luther Bandro show. And then pushing back on the stiff productions of the era to keep their own energy intact. They bring the receipts, ghetto heaven, of course, producing Paul Abdull's sophomore album, Spellbound, that immortal sax solo and Billy Ocean's Caribbean queen that Jeff never actually played

straight through. Surprise. Anyway, that was part one. And I hope you guys enjoyed this. It was a really crazy episode. So, check, check. One, two.

Ladies and gentlemen, sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Steve's looking mad nervous right now because we're not following the rules of the show from an engineer standpoint. But I don't know. I just felt the need. We don't have to do roll call every time.

I will say, yes, first story is if you're tuning in late, this is Quest Love Supreme on IHeart Radio. And we're still here with three supremas because I have them locked in chains. See what I did there, guys, locked in chains? Yes, yes, yes. Boss Bill, Lyon, Sugar Steva, are with us. Apparently, unpaid Bill met a woman named Lady Sunshine.

Whoa. And he left us a dear John note that said, He ain't never coming back. Fonigolo apparently is still smoking very strong cigarettes, and he said he'd be back for visitation Sundays in a month. Indica. So what I will say is that when time has passed and the smoke is cleared, I really hope that the storytellers and the history makers and the history tellers

will be kind to our next guess, whether as a collective, Or as individuals, as an artist, producers, songwriters, or just playing old session musicians, or just three really talented musicians. Our guest today have made impact in history, and they march to the beat of their own drum, their own weird drum, whether we know it or not. Sing a Steve. And I'll be honest, I think Bill can agree with me, boss Bill can agree that the gems of discovery for this episode alone. rates 10 on the Oship meter. Yes, yes.

And we graciously thank them for doing us the honor of celebrating with them 30 years of truth, weirdness, cleverly hidden snark. A little ban of white, how you doing? Zero compromises, as far as I know. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the one and only Peter Lord V. Jeffrey Smith and Sandra St. Victor,

a special treat for all you music expert. and nerds and connoisseurs out there professionally known as the family stand. Yeah. Wow. Now, every intro has to be like that. No, right? Right? I think a new standard has been set. And I really had a good roll call, but, you know.

I had two of them. I knew one of you all was going to steal one of them. Now, see, I wasn't even going to do the obvious one. I have to say that this is one that I didn't see coming. Really? Why? I didn't see coming. I just, now I see it coming.

I appreciate it. You know, just when your name appeared on the wish list of, oh, family stand, when I do Questlove Supreme, we're like, Ruh. Thank you. What are you talking about? I'm happy. Boss Bill's happy.

Everyone's happy. I'm not worried about a thing. You're not worried about a thing. That's what's that. So, has this always been this way with you guys? Like, you just... Pretty much. Yeah, no doubt.

Break out. Is that the bond that kept you together to be a... The music is always been the thing. I mean, we can hang out and have good fun and, you know, we are compatible outside of music. But the thing that always brings us back is that music. Because we are like, I call them my musical soulmates, and I mean that sincerely, they literally are, I mean, I've never been connected or bonded with anyone the way I am with Peter and Jeff. And I call them my powers, towers of powers. Powers that beat.

The talas are. When I'm between them, I'm. the safest that I am in the world. Okay. Well, here, this is a tradition on Questlove Supreme because any guest that comes on the show, I always want to find out what brought them to where they are now. And, you know, the first question I always have,

well, there's three of you now, so this is going to be an extra long episode. This might be, this might tie Jimmy Jam's record. Can I take my shoes off for six hours? That's why we brought you to a reservoir. This is home. Okay. I'm like, wait a minute. You got feed made for radio, so sorry.

I have radio, I'm good. Thank you, thank you, sweetheart. Brother. So, thank you. Thank you. They know. What I'll do is, uh, I'll go from my, my right to left. Uh, my first question for you, Pete.

Yes. Is. Uh, first of, where, where were you born? I was born in Brooklyn, New York. Really? I'm from Brooklyn. Okay. Same hospital as Michael Jordan.

Nice. Okay. Off Atlantic Avenue. Okay. Wait, what hospital was there? What hospital is that? What hospital is that? I think it was St. Joseph's or something like that.

Off Atlantic. Yeah. Okay. And Sandra, where were you? Dallas, Texas. Yes, I know you were. Big D. Yeah.

Yeah. And, all right, so you're the Big D and then Detroit's the D. Okay, the D. That's another thing. Okay. All sounds good. Ride that D. You know what I'm saying?

Jeff. H.R. Never saw. Never saw. This is XM radio or triple XNM. Yeah, triple X. And V. Jeffrey? I was born in Harlem, Harlem Hospital.

Really? Yeah, the old one. Oh, okay. I'm a man of a certain age, so. The old one as opposed to? Yeah, the one that's here. It was one on 305th and Lenox. No, it's not Lennox.

I think it's a little further over. Really? Okay. Yeah. It's the old one. Like I said, I'm a man of a certain age. So I don't think people even know about that, that one. An older, okay.

An older Harlem Hospital. Like Frederick Douglass was born there, right? Same time. Oh. We started early. Here we go. There we go. Here we go.

Y'all in the right place. That's all right. So then I'll ask what year. Sandra, what year did you come to New York City? 1982. Okay. Yeah. Visiting a few times or you've officially just.

No, that was it. I just rolled up. and it was a crazy roll-up, but yeah, rolled up in 1982. Really? It was crazy. Kind of the opening to a song that wasn't written yet, Welcome to the Jungle, like you got off the bus. It was freaking nuts.

You know, it was a Royer's roll-up, so he's had a setup, and it was, there's a whole thing there, but yes. I got it. Okay, okay. We got time. Now, no, no, I'm going to get to that. Okay. So I'm just, my base, my first four questions are always just the basic foundations

of who you are as individuals before we get in the collective. All right, so what is, Peter, what is your first musical memory? Very first musical memory. This is going to give away age. But this is, I was always late because we're all mature here. Yeah, we're all mature. That's right. The first song I remember hearing was hit the road jack.

Okay. What you say? And that's my first musical memory, hit the road jack. Okay. And then I remember being, my sister having a party. at around I think it was 1968 or 9

and she played that Sly album and my life was never the same after that though I didn't realize it yet but the really reason I got into music industry was because of of Satan

and that was because and he falls to you till this day and I tell you I know a lot of us you know people of a certain he would like to say

that Jesus got in the music, but Satan got me in the music because the movie The Exorcist. And I'll tell you why. Because the movie came out and I was so afraid to go to sleep. I started playing the radio every night. And that's what I went tangential. Oh, tangential. Yo, we were tangential.

All right. So I was, so that's, every shadow was like, you know, Linda Blair, I turned their head around. So I started playing the radio every night. So I waited at the moon. I got this new song. I'm so tired of. being alone. I thought about that all myself.

Really? Yeah. Oh, that was Al Green. Oh, but then I kept hearing Stevie and those people were doing the radio during now. I'm like, oh, I think I like music because I'm hearing songs in my head. Wait, I gotta say something. I don't think I've ever shared the story before, but now that makes sense because when you think of the boogeyman or whatever, the first thing

you want to do is distract yourself from whatever you think is under the bed or in the closet. So you put music on to be an invisible roommate. Frank Zappa had did a film, a short film with Bill Plympton, uh, 1973, whatever. And it came on midnight special, but this thing, like, he turned into a demon.

I mean, if you know Frank Zappa's music, it's like, like four fingers turned into 75 billion fingers. And I had nightmares of Frank Zappa forever. And so, thus, my mom, I totally forgot. That's how music really, I had her on 24-7, because I was scared of Frank Zappa getting me. Yeah, that was it. See, we connected, bro.

Sondra, what was your first musical memory in addition to the first music that you purchased or owned and the moment that changed your life and brought you to music? Okay, well, so the first and the last question I'm probably about the same. And that's the first musical memory. My parents and my aunts tell me about stuff that I did when I was two, like playing the piano,

and they said I was fiddling around playing and I figured out that the scale was joy to the world. So they said, but they said I was two. I don't remember this, but they tell me, they said, you were two and you said, and I said, George to the world, the Lord, there's come. So it was George to the world. I don't recall that. But my first musical memory is I had chores and I had to clean, dust these coffin, looking, bedazzled lamps in the living room. And as I was consoling myself while I was cleaning,

I started singing. And as I was singing, I said, I'm a singer. I was like eight. I said, I am. I didn't say I want to sing. I said, I am a singer. And it's new. And it's never changed from that moment, never anything else. And so, yeah, that was a. the first, that's like the first real solid memory. And that also is the last question. When that's the thing that changed my life as far as, it was no question at that point, who I was in my own, you know, in my own, you know, skin. I knew from that point. I forgot your second question now. The first record you purchased. Ah, okay. So, yeah, the first thing I probably purchased was songs in the key of life or Larry Graham's mirror.

That's the first thing I probably purchased. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was young, but I had a little allowance, and that was about that time. And those were the first albums I had. Songs in Kea Life and Mirror. Yeah, I love that.

Jeff, what was your first musical memory? Around my house, there was a lot of music because my mother, she sang, and she used to have these parties. Well, I don't know exactly what to call them now. Because, you know, was there a car game? Was there a knife? There was a lot of stuff going on. And Jen?

There was a lot of stuff going on. A blue light or a red light. Me and my sister was under a chair and watching them play music all night. But at the same time, the music that we would listen to was things like Brooke Benton. And the first thing that, the song that I remember is Book a T and the MGs. What's the song that, but Green onions? Green onions, right? Right.

Until this day, I say Stevie probably copped. that with um oh for higher ground higher ground because when i first heard higher ground i said stevie jacked that song you know i mean he added his little twist but that's probably the first memories of and also um i was made to love her okay that was but the but the music that really changed my life was music of my mind really There's another observation I'm making right now that's rare for our guests. It sounds like that at a very early age, music isn't an obstacle in your households.

Usually with our guest on the show, there's like Charlie Wilson, like people have to sneak to listen to the records. Like the only secular record they're allowed to listen to is what's going on or that sort of thing. So you're saying even at an early age and discovering music, your parents were no than okay. What type of parents did you guys have that were so open to? Well, I had a parent.

That's a can of worms. Well, my mother was a nurse and my father was a communist, so that creates an artist. So he was open, he was open minded to begin with, a little bit too open-minded. But so, and my oldest sister

was into music and my father sang. So we weren't, we weren't, and I was baptized Catholic, So we weren't like a religious, Baptist, you know, music is evil type of phamp, you know. So you had our alternative. Semi-auternative. Yeah, different from what most black people at the time. Yeah, absolutely.

Because my father was actually, he went to, he graduated from Harvard. He was a lawyer. He was a columnist of major paper and a professor. But he was seriously a communist and got caught. up in the 1950s scandal. So his whole career ended up being a teacher in Jersey City. So my parents got divorced around 1963. Is this when the violins come in?

Well, explain to me the repercussions of that. If the government was trying to vent out who was a communist based on. Yeah, exactly. So even though he had a Harvard law degree and was a doctor philosophy and wrote books about history, the fact that he was a communist, he got outed and he was, and he was taught at his school in Albany and was forced to leave there. Is your dad, Paul Robeson? No, you know, he hung with Paul Robeson.

There's a picture of him, there's a picture of him and Paul Robeson and Joe Lewis and this big, you know, party back in the, like, late 40s. He had me, like, late in his, later in his life. Yeah, I remember. I mean, what he believes that he was just anti-capitalist or just? He was an atheist, in fact, but my mother wasn't, even though she wasn't necessarily religious, but she went just, and my grandmother, Jamaican and very religious, wanted to make sure I didn't.

How did that work? It's a lot of conflicts. Most of the things I know are like, that close to God is. That's why he's a genius because crazy. Crazy. So, so my, so my. Are you Gemini? I was just about to ask me.

I'm a Leo. Leo. Yeah, he's a Gemini. You better be a Gemini because that's the album is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they were open-minded in terms of, in terms of that, in terms of music. So they, you know, they love music and she actually wanted me to, I think she wanted me to get music, but my sister was actually went to music and art. And I didn't go.

I went to Erasmus High School and Brooklyn. Oh, actually, no, I didn't. I went to War Women Junior High School in Brooklyn, and to make sure I'd have to fight the same people I did. And Warwick, when I went to Erasmus, I made sure I passed that test to go to Stuyveson High School. So that's what I ended up there. Isn't that tip story as well? That sounds familiar. That's crazy. Yeah, so I ended up going, but I wasn't, but music wasn't such a, there wasn't a block to music in my house and that, so that was fortunate. So was there a, uh, most, the, the, the sort of hip-hop, uh, narrative is basically with gang activity in New York, in the 70s, and sort of waning out in the 80s.

But was that an everyday thing in your teenhood? I hear it a lot on the West Coast, but you rarely hear it for. What the thing is, let's say I was a different type of kid. So, yeah. Yes, you were. Yeah, we know how you survived and navigated this. Actually, I kind of ignored a lot of stuff. And not a conscious thing.

I mean, I just wasn't into it. You know what I mean? So I was, I just wasn't, definitely into gangs of fighting and all that stuff. How do you avoid it? Because normally they choose you. I guess they thought I was so weird. They didn't know what to do with me.

And I just didn't, you know. Ah, you know. The mirror route. Yeah, I mean, I was just, yeah, I was just so kind of out, you know, and that I had like a weird kind of childhood, like in Brooklyn. And so there was a lot of fights and stuff.

And, but. I was, as opposed to getting to the fights, I was kind of stupid kid in a way because I was scared of people I should have been scared of because they had a bunch of brothers and I had no brothers. But one day, I found out later was the biggest bully in the neighborhood, took my, we used to play this game, people don't play anymore called punch ball.

It's kind of like baseball. He thought of my punch ball. So this guy took my ball and I said, give me my boy. He said, no. And I punched him in the face. And then everybody said, do you know, you just punched him in the face? The biggest prisoner. Nice.

Okay. I punched him in the face, but but then it was like, do you know he just hit him? And then after I realized that who I hit, then I was scared. But then the guy became friends with me and looked out for me. He didn't mess with you. Yeah, but he looked out for me for a bunch of the other kids who were really tougher than even worse he was. So, whew. Well, I'm glad you had that because I can't imagine a childhood growing up where you don't have that one person that's like,

Like, I'm gonna get boom to fuck you up. Oh, no. Yeah. I never had that. So I just ran home with the quickness. So, Sandra, in Dallas. Yeah. Okay.

Is what was Dallas at the time in your childhood? Because I think of Austin as a blue city in a red state. Or at least they would like to paint that. Or now it is. Yeah, for sure. We don't even know now. Texas is trying to go blue, right? But I'll say that the times that I went there,

at least with my gracious host, El Head Rappo. Is that me? Yeah, you. Oh, Erica. Oh, my God. Head Rappo. L head Rappo. She showed me size of Dallas that I didn't even know exist.

And I've been there plenty of times. And I was like, oh, they're. people like me down here. What was it like for you growing down there? Yeah, it was like the two sides of the tracks, you know? And my dad, who came from, like, him and his brothers, him and his brothers, I mean, the first gun I saw was my dad's, okay? My dad was like a pimp back in the day, right?

And, you know, I stumbled upon those pictures. But so Dallas, when I was going on, was very divided. So he had decided at some point that he was going to leave the gang life behind a little bit at least on the front I wanted to use this

You can you can You can because trust Let me tell you some My daddy didn't really lead that shit behind So what I'm telling you is What I'm telling you So he kind of like You know so he we got a great job

He moved up for a black supervisor At the phone company all kind of crap But my mother's family lived on the other side of the tracks. So when we had to go visit them, we said, oh, snap. This is the real of real, right? So they lived in West Dallas and South Dallas and, you know, in little trailers and like 12 people in one house. And, you know, we went to visit our country cousins. They didn't have shoes.

So, like, you know, we was like, oh, damn, we're middle class. I mean, I didn't know the term for it then. But I look now look back on it. You know, I grew up middle class. Well, you know, I would say lower to middle, middle class. Yeah, close. You know, upper middle middle class life. You know, up up, up, middle class life.

Working class. Working class. You know what I mean. But dad, dad's, dad's, like, you know, sort of gangster side never left. I mean, for example, when I remember I was with this duel. Oh, no. Uh-oh. Here we go.

I know what this is going. The story begins. Tell it, Sandra. Let me just tell us cute. I mean, so, and, you know, he wasn't treating me right. And he actually, like, he actually slapped the shit out of me one day. And I, like, and I was so stunned. So I got on a flight, and I was in New York.

So I got on a flight, and I just went by calling my dad. I always picked me with the airport. And he picked me at an airport, and I was just quiet. And he was like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, nothing. And he was quiet. It was a 40-minute ride. We almost home.

He said, did he lay his hands on you? He just guessed it. And I was like, wah! Bada boom, but a boom. No. Son, so we got home. He never saw him get that red. He was like, life came job.

He was like, he got home. He picked up the phone. Oh. He called, dude. He just said shit to me. He just picked up the phone. He brought my suitcase in, picked up the guy. He said, I'm on my way.

He said, he said, he said, he said, he said, Clark, he said, Clark, this is Mr. Matthews. He said, if you ever lay your hands on my daughter again, New York won't be big enough. Oh. I was like, me. Why are you? I'm like, that's so romantic. I just want to know we ever heard from Clark again.

No, actually. I didn't think we did, yeah. We did not. All right, that would be enough for you sound like. No, I mean like, is he alive? I really could not answer that question. I honestly, I do not know. Okay.

I did not hear from Clark anymore. He shut him down. So, I mean, he's done that kind. That's kind of thing he does. I mean, you know, he got cute when he got older, when he would just meet ladies. All my girlfriends, what I introduced, he would flirt with and tell them, I'm not a dirty old man. I'm just a sexy senior citizen. Oh, even now.

Embarrassed his shit out of me. You're going to use that line. Pull that one out. That was my dad and his brother. Did you learn how to handle the pistol? Oh, I did, actually. Well, she from Texas. Yeah, I mean, I assume, but I was like, I don't want you to.

Is that, okay, I don't want to make any assumptions about Texas whatsoever, but can I assume that that that's as simple as breathe in the air or water? At least we're taught to think. Shooting? Yeah. I would say. I would say 70% I'm not going to say everybody

you know what I mean? Because everybody, most people don't know how to gun but I knew how to shoot or the parents definitely had guns So you come across it You know what I mean? So I came across the gun in my house

My dad used to keep it on top of the refrigerator I'm like, what is it on top of the refrigerator? That's where the gun was So when he saw me like find it And he was like, okay well if you don't do the gun You know let me show you how so Were you the only sibling? No, I had three.

We were all adopted, by the way. Three siblings, yeah. You were chosen. Yeah. Nice. Three chosen kids. I almost shot my sister. Wait, what?

No, no, no. Let me tell you what happened. We were kids, right? And me and my sister were in my, my stepdad. I mean, I wasn't, like, familiar with my biological. So my mother had been married, right? Oh, yeah. And me and my sister was playing in her, in their room.

Found a gun. And so we was reaching, you know, trying to look for things. And we see this gun and I'm thinking it's a toy gun. So I pointed at my sister and clicked. And then I pointed at the ceiling and it went off. Wow. They came in and they said, I didn't know what was happening. So they was wondering if something had happened upstairs.

I was wondering why they were. They were tripping. They were tripping. So I didn't know it was a real gun. You know, I was like, that's one of my earliest memories because I don't remember much. before I was nine. Well, that's Questlo's Supreme, ladies and gentlemen. Good night.

Good night. Steve is sober now. Yeah. There's nobody carrying, right? You know, the family's staying. You got an ass now. That's scary. Yeah, that's scary.

I mean, I remember that. That's like kind of a weird kind of thing. It's a blessing. Like, you blessed. No, seriously. Your life would have went differently. Well, I don't, you know, I don't believe. even luck or anything like that.

But that was a... That's what's up. Yeah, I mean... Somebody's looking out. Somebody's looking out. The long loading times. The glitchy video calls. That's your house asking for better internet. Switch to Bell Pure Fiber,

Canada's most reliable internet awarded by Open Signal from $75 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast.

It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. Learned that about you today.

Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me.

Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast.

The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, LeBerry, Lamourne, Moorne, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job.

And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you.

So if you like fun, if you like comedy and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Bring you guys to New York now. What year did you guys meet? Not even as a bit, but like. 86. Okay. You're talking about all of us?

Yes. Okay. Let me take. Let me take this one. Go ahead. Break it down. Peter and I met through a mutual friend, Will Downing. Yes.

Me and Will Downing, we used to do a lot of work together. We were writing, sessions, all that stuff. And, you know, Will used to come over my house and, you know, we used to write. So one day he told me that he knew this guy needed a flute player on a song that he was writing, right? And I never forget the song was in the thick of it, right? That's the name of it? I never forgot the name of that song. So he let me hear the song.

I said, man, I got to meet this guy. So he said, I'll bring him over. So Pete came over my house. You know, I said, that's Pete. He's weird. He looked like he had this like Larry Dundney, 6'5. And I'm like, so we started working together. And at the time you were, you had a group,

you were with Renee and Angela. Angela, right? He was doing them at first. Oh, I can't wait for the stories. We're not even going to get to the family stand yet. Does your collective experience? Oh, she's shaking a head, no, already? Every Renee's story is terrible.

I'm ready for this. I'm ready for the team. So it was Renee and Angela, right? They were producing the group. Yes, yes, yes. So somehow I convinced PSA, Pete, man, you know, we could do this ourselves because I was always into, you know, having, being in control of our own music.

So, you know, we started working together doing a lot of productions and stuff. And so we had a bunch of singers coming and doing demos for us because at the time we were doing stuff for Silver Your Honor, Merlin Bob. And Mickey Howard. Mickey Howard. You know, we did Mickey Howard. So all the weird stuff, the MacBank. Yeah, yeah, MacBam. We did productions on them.

And we had different singers singing our demos. So Lisa Fisher was one of the. one of our things. Now I knew Lisa from I met Lisa in 1983 on a session that I was doing for Billy Ocean, right? So she was in the studio, yeah.

She was in the That's him. You said that's so casual. We'll get to that. That's his sax. We'll get to that. We know this. So, you know, I met Lisa then.

So we kind of established a relationship over the years. And then she did some demos for us too. And so did we get an offer the deal or we just started? No, first we met before you guys got the offer for the producers deal. Because Lisa had to go do Luther. She had to go Luther.

Right. And so then she pulled me in because I met Lisa when she was doing the crystals and I still lived in Texas and I was doing laissez-faire. And so we hooked up before I moved to New York. The crystals? The crystals. The crystals. The crystals. We do-wop.

Yeah. Yeah, she was doing the crystals back in the day. Wait a minute. Not as the original. No, no, I know this. Okay, it was only one. That's my era. Like, yeah, no doubt.

So it was like one original crystal and the other two and Lisa was one of the other two. Shit, I did shows with Lisa Fisher and I never knew it. Oh, you were a kid with your dad. Dude, we did mad shows with the Christmas. But that was like a doo-op legend. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, so. Shit.

So anyway, we were using Lisa and a bunch of other things. singers and we told Lisa that we needed a singer and she said oh my girl Asandra lives in Dallas and I could hook you up with them and at the time we were producing this group called the Mac band who was out of Dallas yeah who I think babyface they produced roses are red right so we were producing some songs on that record so we had to go to Dallas to produce them and that's where we hooked up with Sandra at a Luther Vandross show I'll never forget yeah Lisa invited us to Lucavandro's show. What year was this?

1986. You don't know what to tell us there. Like 86? It had to be 86. It had to be 85. 87. No, because it was 86 because I met Pete in 85. Was there air conditioning on in the stadium when you win?

Yo, wait. But wait. But Sandra said I'll never forget. What once you ever forget, Sandra? He was shady. I was minding my own business. She, you know, we said hello. And maybe because she was used to men melting over her as a,

Rightfully so, but she just said hello and I said, oh, how are you doing? And she thought I was being cold, but I think I just had some indigestion that day. It's like me and why your story. I think my stomach was hurting like, oh, who's he think he is? I'm sorry to say Victor. Yeah, that sound familiar. It's good to see another dynamic because that's... I'm starting to say Victor.

It was this little Peter Lard, 6'5. She talks, he was like, she's giving you command. Exactly. Come on. he looked down his nose at me. Jeff was like, hey, how you doing? Well, he's like six-foot billion. Exactly, exactly.

But, you know, he could like look at me, but not look. I was looking at the rest of you, baby. You have it going on. Nice shoes. Good one. HR, but good one. It was the 80s, really. So, say that kind of shit.

Okay, this is the thing. I'm really excited that you guys are on the show simply because the one story that I've, not story, but just the one narrative, that I never ever got to wrap my head around was what was the environment like for, I guess the black musicians in trying to navigate through the mid-80s,

like the Marcus Miller's, the Bernard Wrights, the Tawatha G's, like, what is the stratosphere of you guys? Well, see, you know, all those people you mentioned. So basically all those people came out of the session scene, right? Right. So, so the session scene was thick. It's not anymore, right? But back then, you had your West Coast session folks and you had your East Coast session folks and all the people you mentioned, Marcus was more west, but. Now, Marcus is East East, but he ended up going back. Yeah. But so, so, I mean, those people are mostly East Coast people and they came out of session

and record labels were looking to like, you know, push people to the front, like, M2 and Tawatha out of M-Tum-A from that session scene. So that's why you got the Mick Murphys and, you know, the Bernard Wrights and those folks that came from that scene. And also Pete and Jeff, you know what I mean? They were offered this producer's deal out of the, because they were doing all these sessions. But was there a collective where like, I mean, I'm talking even deep,

like with Shaka's brother like Mark Stevens and all these monsters, Lenny White and all those cats? Yeah, we used to hook each other up, man. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. There was a real camaraderie with folks. I mean, like Lisa and Brenda White King put me on, you know, because Lisa knew me before I moved,

before I moved here. And she used to be Brenda and they all sort of took me under their wing and they put you into the situations you need to be put into. So what was your apprentice situation? Like if you say that Lisa was a Luther disciple, who was your apprentice situation? That would probably be Roy Ayers then because, you know, You know, that was how I first got up there, up here, up where am I now? New York yesterday.

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so it was Roy. It started to tell that story a little bit. Yeah, I got a lot of Roy's story. But you said something like when you came to New York and you were with Roy, like, that's when you knew things were different. Like, the way you entered New York was different than just. Oh, it was wild as fuck. No, no, let it out.

No FCC here. Okay, okay, cool, cool. Okay. Yeah, no, it was definitely a, uh, put your clothes back on. Put your clothes back on. I'm seeing Victor, no. Oh, clothes, we have to keep clothes on on. You have to keep clothes on?

Darn. I was trying to let the girls free. Hey. Another me too moment. Or two me moment. I know which one. To me. That's the shit.

I like that. Too me. New songs. See? That's all you come up. Hashtag. Tons have songs come up right here. Okay.

So, but. We'll get to that too. So Roy, so Roy, he, I met him in, he, I met him in when I was in, when I was in, playing with a group with Zachary Burrow. I don't know if you know who he is. And we had to use his equipment. So he came to our show and stuff. And after the show, he was like,

I want you to come to New York. You want to be in my band? I was like, dirty old man, you know. That's kind of what I thought. You said, okay. That's kind of what I was like, ew. Okay. I was right.

I was like, ill. Good girl. Yeah, but yeah, I thought he was a, you know, just pushing up, really. So I went and told the band, I'm like, Roy Ayers asked me to, you know, coming to New York. They were like, yo, let's go. And so I was like, wait, I wasn't really planning on accepting.

They were like, no, you got it, just all go. So then I reached out to Roy, and I said, Roy, yeah. So the whole band was going to be says, I don't need the whole band. So, so. Wow. That's going to be. I love you too. I was like, that's going to be awkward because they got the van.

They got the transportation to get me there. So, so. It sounds like someone else we know I'll get your ride home That is also the DeAngelo story Oh my God Oh okay so So I went

The whole band decided to come I said but he said he doesn't really need And so we got there and he took me and Zachary bro But when we got there He had set us up to stay at William Allen's house William Allen is an arranger String arranger For all of those beautiful ubiquity arranged songs

he did all those string arrangements. And we were staying at, no, Zach and I was staying at William Allen's apartment in Harlem. And it was February 21st, 1982, and it was like, you know, 47 inches of snow on the ground. And the cab, like, picked it. Is that a gift of yours to recall dates? I remember this, definitely. Oh, just this story. I remember a lot of things like that, that, like, you're like, well, things that terrify you.

You have a tendency to. Okay. Yeah, because we passed. I mean, I'm from Dallas. Okay. We have nice, large streets and stop signs and lights. Everybody follows the rules. So we got here. We passed by like two blocks. I'm like, so I think we passed it. I think it was back there. He just said, okay, put it in reverse and just like sped backwards, you know, like two and a half blocks in the snow and, you know, on a one-way street. And I was just scared shitless and we got there and we stayed at Williams. And, you know, there was, he didn't have a.

bed for us. He could barely walk through his house because he was a hoarder. He had no food and we were like, what can eat? He said, whatever he's fine in the pantry. Open a pantry, roaches jumped out. It was like, this is mine. I was like, oh, fuck. That was like my introduction

to the yard. You're back off. I imagine a much freakyer story. Back off. No, I got a freaky story but that's later. Oh, that's why I thought you. I got a Roach story.

I got another freaky-dick. Roeke's freakie-degie. It's a whole other freaky-dicky story. He's crazy. Roy was already. I don't think I can tell us. We had him on the show. Oh, you heard the story, Jeff.

We should have mentioned it. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead and tell it. That's okay. No, Roy's nuts. But yeah, that was. Okay. All right.

I mean, that was just my introduction to New York story. That's what I'm fine. All right. So you, I mean, this, was obviously just a conversation between the three of you. And you're saying that you met at this Luther Vandross show. Met Sandra. Yeah.

He and Pete met a few years before that. Well, we were going to try out different singers, but I mean, I want to back a track. Actually, because you didn't ask, the person was kind of really my mentor in a way was Jeff. Because he didn't know that, but he was kind of my. No, he's finding out right now. I'm not right now. How many interviews have you all done together? Well, the thing is because I, like, I had just come out with the Howard University.

You know. You know what the Howard you. And so I was there around the same time as Wayne Lindsay and some other people. We're here. We're here. I graduated in 82. Was Leroy Hudson? Yes.

Yes. Was he a teacher there as well? Yes. He was a teacher there. Okay. LeRoy Hudson? That guy? I think you're talking about, yeah, I think, yeah, I think if that's who you're talking about.

But I wasn't even the jazz band, but I had been, how the Renee and Angela thing, right, I think right, if I graduated or right, something like that. I was working with a friend who was a singer who was the singer named Raymond Reeder, a great singer. Yeah, yeah, I remember that was a group, right? Right, yeah. And you had a female too, right? Right, they were going to turn us into another Shalimar, okay. Yeah, so that's who, that's who, that's who we were. going to be another Shalamo, all right?

Okay. All right. As you can see, it didn't quite work. Y'all can pop lock? Yeah, it couldn't pop, yeah. Six, five popping. Don't really, you know, look like Pinocchio or whatever,

trying to pop lock. But anyway, so I was in that bad, but that situation didn't work out. I won't get to the gory details of it, but didn't that didn't work out, and I went back to New York. But I wasn't really necessarily in the New York scene like Jeff was.

You know, sometimes I would hang with Jeff, and he was working with Kashif, and I went with him up there, and a lot of people who were there were like, who's the guy over there? You know, he's the weird guy. Who's the weird guy? No, Jeff said, no, he's cool. That was the question. Yeah.

I don't even remember. You went up there with me? They only let me up there once. Okay, okay. But when I was up there once, there was a, because he had a whole bunch of songwriters. And they were like working and said, we can need to come up with these ideas. And they said, well, you write songs, right? I said, yeah, I know, I write a little bit.

So, so right now, and they were kind of jammed an idea. I was like, oh yeah, and I came. I started singing stuff, and they were like, that's all right, that's cool. And then I left. I think about maybe a year later, I kind of heard what I was singing that day. And I'm not lying either.

But so there was a, like, so I knew some of the people from Howard University, but in terms of like the New York crew and hanging all the singers and stuff, I didn't kind of really know as much as Sandra and Jeff. But as we got a chance we produced a record like Jeff was saying, we got to do some stuff with Merlin Bob

and said we were on the Atlantic and they said, I want you guys do a producer album and that's how it came about finding the singer. Right, right, right. But the thing is, since I was the outsider and the most fucked up one of the group, all right, they didn't know people, you know, the instrument you're talking about that times

and how people related. It was a click. Yeah, it was a kind of a click. I was never in kind of any clicks and I'd be like, Jeff, can I, can I go with you? So yeah, no, he's cool. He's cool. He's cool.

He's cool. But if it affected, kind of of our sound and music because the 80s was a very unique time. A unique time was like the kind of bridge, as you know, between transition. It was definitely transition. And all I know is whatever the fuck was going on in the 80s for me personally, I wasn't fucking digging. But I hadn't really realized what that was yet.

So these singers were really great, but there was a certain sound. So we started to make our album, why Saja fit in, all these singers, they were like, and it came from a little bit from the Kashif School. some real dope records. It was like, it was a type of singing back in my background singing is, love come down.

You know what that kind of, hun, ha, ha, ha, ha, hoo, and they were, that shit was tight. This is my favorite episode

of my podcast ever. This is my dream. This is like talking to three amears. Like all this random information. I don't have to say shit. She was like, hang hu hae. But,

you know, but Sandra, when she said, she was like, ah, She was a siren. She was that fucking Tina Turner kind of like, my shit is unbridled.

I'm trying to be, he-hoo-hoo, but I wasn't really into that. So you didn't like the sheen and the professionalism. Yeah, I didn't know what that thing was. And we were doing backgrounds in the album. I'd be like, could you guys not make it so clean? They'd be like, what's wrong?

That was a Jackie Deeson double take for those on radio who didn't see what I just did. I see, I see. Who's Jackie Leeson? But anyway. So in terms of Saundi just fit into an energy that we had and we knew naturally.

And even with our first album chapters, we hadn't really locked in quite to what that thing was. Yeah, yeah. But all I knew was I didn't want to hear the shit I had been hearing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, let's get to that. I think we could safely assume

that the most defined sound of what the 80s was at least for the beginning of the 80s to the mid-80s, I mean, was the kind of sound that Prince crafted that Minnesota... Well, not for us. But there was bookie, I know, with the work that Keshift did and everything, and Leroy Burgess and...

Any Leroy Burgess? Well, V.JF., you work with everyone. Did you... My life is a blurring, terms of it. I mean, I... Yeah, I have worked with a lot of people. I mean, the 80s to me, I mean, I think the 70s to me was like the best time for music. Of course.

But the 80s was transitional to me because the sound just changing. I thought people were just trying to figure things out in terms of the sound sonically. Everything kind of just sounded stiff and perfect. And we just kind of had to go through that. I mean, even today, as much as we can. can get to anything that we want. Sometimes sonically, things just sound kind of over quantized to me. Hell yeah.

Yeah, everything just sounds kind of over quantized. And it's not bad. It's not a bad thing or a good thing, but it's a thing. It's numbing. Yeah, yeah, it's numbing. Because the funny thing is I went to visit my son over the Christmas holidays. You know what I mean? I don't really celebrate Christmas, but, you know, I had to go see my son.

So he was taking me back to the airport. And we were listening to all this music, right? And I'm hearing one song and everything sounds perfect. Everything, you know, harmonies, big drums, everybody's into the loudness. And, you know, so this one song comes on by this girl, I forgot her name. But it sounded so soulful, harmonies. As soon as the song finished, me and my son started laughing at the same time. We started laughing at the same now.

You know, he's my son. But he realized that everything sounded the same. And there's always like just kind of one song that will kind of stick out. And you realize how fucked up things have kind of gotten. And everybody's kind of just playing the, you know, I got to sound like the last thing, you know. So. Well, that's the thing, though. But in the 80s, you have to choose a path.

And for sure. It's like there's boogie. There's the Minneapolis, Prince Town. There's also hip hop. How are you guys wrestling with what hip hop has become and the fact that you're developing a craft, but yet hear people that just seem to... Well, I think what the key transition was for us

and then how it leads musically is that there was this link with 60s and 70s children music. So, but then the music got electronic and slick. But what the bridge was was hip hop. So hip hop was feeding off of that rawness from the James Brown and the drums and all that kind of stuff. In the late 80s, though. In the late, in the late, yeah, it was starting. In the mid-80, like, have you guys dealt with Larry Smith or?

I'm just throwing out New York names. I know him, I mean. Yeah, I don't know him personally. I don't know him personally, but I know of him. I know of him. I know of him. I think the thought was what I was getting to is like we did a session. I went to it.

I was fond of Jeff carrying Jeff's bags to a session one day. And it was, and I would just, you know, lots of that I would just sit there and be quiet and listen to people. They were doing a hip-hop record. And I was listening to it. And I was like, you know, at that particular time, I hadn't really heard yet somebody, bring those sensibilities of hip-hop of the drums

that was happening underneath with a melodic song kind of at that particular time. So that concept of bringing that together. And plus, there was starting to be on East Coast certain rock records that I heard that I liked. And then listening to more soulful stuff. And since we were called the stand, we were going to become the family stand and change your name because Yvonne Jeffries in the stand was too confusing. That story, we can get to it a later time. Yeah, but that's what led to ghetto heaven, that idea of,

Let me sing a song within the context of this hip-hop roar-ish type of beat. I'm going to tell them how ghetto heaven came to be. What is ghetto heaven? Now, let me tell you that we're going to break down the song before I even get to how you guys got your group name.

But let's go. You want me to tell you how the song came to be? Yes. You know Salam Remy. Yes. we do. He was kind of the inspiration for that song because when we were on our

first album, you know we did the first album, the record company you know, we were like that group that they didn't exactly know what to do with us. So they kind of fucked us around and, you know, so I said

I knew Sarat Who's your A&R? Who's your A&R? It was Merlin Bob. Merlin Bob, right? Y'all weren't an electric? That was a land. It was Atlantic. Sir Merlin Bob was that Atlantic?

Atlantic. First? Yeah. Okay. I remember his electric phase with Sylvia. Sylvia was like Sylvie. Sylvia. They were.

They both went together. Okay. I forgot. I forgot. Yeah, they were getting us all, me and Pete, all the production work. Yeah. You know. Okay.

But anyway, after that first album, I knew Salam Remy's father because him and I grew up together. We did the Chitlin circuit. You know, we did a lot of sessions together. Mm-hmm. So I said, Pete, we need to go talk to my friend Van Van Gibbs, right? So Van was over there on 54th Street and 11th Avenue. I set up a meeting him so we could kind of talk

because we were getting kind of frustrated with what the record company was not doing for us. And we had out a little talk and then we heard this music coming from the basement. So I said, what's that? He said, that's my son. His name is, I knew he, that's my son, Salon. He's going to be a producer.

He said, you want to go down and listen? So we went down and listened to the music. And then he listened to the music. He said, he came home and listened to me. He said, I got an idea. He said, I got an idea. So after we left Vans, we went straight back to Ebbisfield and worked on Gett.

Came up with a drumbeat. Came up with a drumbeat. Now, if you remember, the original version, of Reddha. What's your drama? Yeah. Yeah. Kewa Dada Dugga, do do do do do.

That came from, because I was in love with Kulmody. And I said, Jeff, I was in love with Kulmody. What's that? He had a saw, the Wild Wild West, the do boom, but do, but do, but do, but I didn't even know that. You remember? I thought, I said, I like that bass. Why get the feeling you all just mean each other right now? I know, because, yeah, but I didn't know that baseline.

Yeah, so then you changed, you said, but do, but do, but do, but do, but do, do. So he was like, Boom, boom, boom, boom. Yeah. I was like, I love that bass line. So then you like sort of fucked the word You twisted a little bit. So the record company heard it.

Yeah, but see, here's the thing. Here's a thing. See, this is the piece of the the piece that I always remember about the inspiration of ghetto heaven because the salam thing was part of that. But also that we had gone to the label, we had submitted the whole record.

Right, right, exactly. And they were like, yeah, this is dope. It's dope. We didn't hear no singles. Yeah, yeah. So we were like, son of up. And so we were like so excited. We was excited about the album and disappointed that they didn't hear, you know,

because we felt like they were singles, you know. It was change, right? It was change. So we were like, I remember, I remember, you know, eventually getting back to studio and was like, you know, it was just like, they just want nursery rhymes. They just want nursery rhymes. They were like, no, I love my baby. No, I love my baby.

I remember that. Same thing with the rush rush. Rush Rush. Rush was a dare. Wait, wait, time out. Was Rush Rush the last song done for Spellbound? No. No.

The first song. You did the same formula. Exactly, right? No, no. No, it wasn't. Well, you want here to rush rush story? I said, you can't, you can't play, you can't write a song with just two chords. No, no.

No, no, that wasn't it. That was what I was, that was big part of it. The other part was, no. the time, what happened was, usually what happens is, you know, at the time, Babyface was was writing a lot of songs. We would go back and Babyface is a great songwriter, of course, I love him, but I would say to her, I can write those songs in my sleep. Time out. So did you purposely use the DX7 patch just as a point of sarcasm? No, it wasn't, the, but the sarcasm was, I literally said, because I knew what his thing was, the thing was,

The thing was the way he hit the beat. So I was like, I jokingly went to the piano and I said, You're the whisper of a summer breeze. You're a kiss that puts my soul at ease. And I was like, oh, that sounds good. And that's the first two things I said. But there was a way he used, he would write songs that kind of go, I want to run, I want to try, I'm going to take to you.

On my heart, on my heart, It's a pocket to a song. And every song where it has their pocket. So once you figure out what the mofo's pocket is, you be like, oh, you want that type of song? You want that type of song? That's the pocket of that thing. So it's all of,

take that. Wow. So that's it, my brother. Yo. Who you texted here? I got to do this. Who you calling? I got to do this.

I got to do this. I got to do this. He had them on the show, though. I got to do this. Hang on. Please pick up. What time is it on the... Oh, it's...

Just pick up, please. I meant to tell him that when I met him, too, but he wasn't... He was a pain in my life. It's not a butt down. Okay. It's an odd time. It's six o'clock. Damn it.

Damn it. Damn it, damn it, damn it. I'm officially calling Jimmy Jam to let him know that he's officially my second favorite... A special Supreme episode. Left of a message. You should have a message. No, he's going to call back. I think he thinks that I'm butt-down, but...

Oh, I got Jimmy Jam. Just bring him. Bring him. No, I know, because it really was for Jimmy Jam, because the first song that I did, we kind of did together, but I did this track with this song for this girl name, Janice Christie. Okay. Heat stroke.

It's one of the worst songs I ever wrote, but it came a little bit of a hit. It was a hit, though. But it was a hit. What year was this? This is 1980. or 87, something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

So the Janet Jackson's record had come out, so everybody was trying to do that, what have you done for me lately? And what was that, what was that song by that group? On that album? No, but it was another group. There's another song that came out, Alice Be My Girl. Full Force?

Full Force. Foss had a record, right? That was really dope. I want you just for me. Yeah, but so the baseline for Heathstroke was a kind of a combination of reball for Jimmy. And it was like, so it was like, do, do, do, do.

That sounds kind of funky. I'm not going to talk about it. Yeah, I know that it. But do you do, boom, but do, but do, but do, do, but do, do, boom, boom. You know, so, so it was that, and the song was horrible, too.

He d' stroke up. I thought it was fucking, yeah. I'm burning up. For the moment, it was kind of flawed. It was fly for the time. But usually in my joke songs end up being hits, but I'm trying to be all deep.

That's what happens. All the jokes songs are the hits. Yeah. I swear to God, ghetto heaven, rush, rush, all the joke songs. Promise of a new day. Even he is?

No, no, no, I was serious about that. No, I was serious about that. But notice, he put that one out under another name. No, it was like you noticed. You did it Alan Smithy? Yeah, that was really dumb too. Why? Because at the time.

Because I never knew till now. Because in 2000, around 2004, I'm like, they're not checking for us anymore. I'm going to check my name to Joshua Nile. You sure did. So they think I'm a new young hip hop cat. Which was the dumbest shit I ever did my fucking, oh, sorry.

I don't know about this. Stop editing yourself. Oh, yeah. You don't know about Josh. Josh Winnah? Yeah, so I wrote he. We did our research. He is and it was, but the thing is what inspired that was again going back to hip hop.

What was, there was this record that I love, broken language or broken? Broken language by smooth the hustler. Yeah, yeah, that track. So he was like, the mind, the world. Yes! So I'm like, he is the dope-electa, the tuba-dector, the duber decta. That's what I'm going on. So that's what I.

So when you can buy Motherfucker You know When I hear her that song You're right The Huffin' The cocaine cooker The hookup on your hookah hookah

The 35 cents short So my two for five's Overlooker Oh God So that's So that's the connection between You know The soul

I'm just taking That was your R&B Broken Language By Smooth the Hustler Yeah Basically You know call Jimmy Jam back

Call it back It's your number two now You know what The interesting thing about that project That I remember too is that I remember them taking a long time To get back to us about doing the song Because, and we almost thought

that they didn't want to do the song And we almost thought that Maybe they were trying to get somebody else To produce the song And it was like It was just kind of a weird thing and I think we almost gave the song away. Yeah, what the problem was, they didn't intend for the first single to come from us.

Exactly, exactly. They didn't intend for the first single to come from us. And so... But they made the right choice. They made the right choice. But finally. But the right about that album though is, and go back to Jimmy and Terry, we love, love, love than the one of our famous...

Absolutely. But that's the second single was, I wish I don't. The first single, yeah. Yeah, I think it was called I Wish or something. But there's a song we had on there called Four Words from a Heartbreak. There was a really dope song that actually... Should have been the next single. Should have been the next single.

But it was a tie, so it was good. But, you know, there's a lot of times with music industry is politics and, you know... Most of the time. Yeah, and we get it, though, and the name. And we actually had offered that, so I think we had tried to get it to Whitney Houston. And then I think Satan, I'm sorry, Clive Davis. Clive Davis. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Oh, my girl. Shats my. You got to let that shit on, you get fired. That shit was great. The way you dropped it, it was just... The long loading times. The glitchy video calls.

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Bell, connection is everything. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one,

which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business.

And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do

to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I don't really care. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien. Iowa Debrie, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Beyer. Ooh, I scammed them. What?

I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please.

And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam goddess on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Wait, oh, yo, my mind is about to explode right now because we're all over the place. All right, so since we're, no, no, we're just being sporadic. This is what I want to know.

because when I got word that you guys were producing Spellbound Paul Abdul's second album Yes her second album Her follow up to her I mean her It was a massive record Yeah I mean Forever Your Girl was more like an industry

That built virgin And Opportunities like that don't come They don't that story doesn't happen When when I heard you guys were producing it And the line share of the record, I was like, yo. Like, how? Yeah.

That's from him playing in her house, playing a piano. How did that happen? How did it happen? Because I would have thought, okay, well, okay, knocked out. That was upstart, L.A. and baby faced. But now that they're the shit, let's, like, she's an industry now. Y'all were doing Aftershock first, right? She wanted to do, she wanted to do something different.

She was, this is where I did the time. artistic statement. Yeah, she wanted. She didn't want to do. She didn't want to do. She didn't want to do. She felt like she was, she was big enough to move past that. Yeah, yeah.

That's why I give her a lot of credit. She was big enough to make her own. And she's really underestimated in terms of her artistic intellect and discipline. So she heard Rush Rush, so she flipped over that. And then, and we were working with a group called Aftershock that we did an album for version. So that's how she kind of heard about us.

And after she heard Rush Rush, she loved that and then what else did we write then I think blown kisses in the way promise of a new day yeah promise a new and then we marry me so yeah no promise a new day was so dark the way those dissonant strings came in but but but the juxtaposition of this video being so sunny and everything and everything I was like yo but listen the coolest song on there I'm sorry it was viabology oh oh I remember viagology what this me all so please me all so What happened? I think the MTV Award performance did it a disservice.

It did it. Because literally the next day. Yeah, we were watching it. We were watching. Well, all shit. So the next day, radio, the managers told us, yo, Reddy is literally saying you're not sending us the fat song, are you? Ain't that a bit? Yo, man.

She wasn't even fat. It was just the food. Can I put in context with you? I got to go look at the game. I'm Googling the video. So she, no, it's not even the video. It's the performance. at the MTV Awards.

And because, you know, I mean, pre-social media, I don't even know how people managed to collect. Like, I knew the collective thought was that, oh my God, what happened to Paula? Exactly. And they blamed the song. Right, they blamed the song. And I liked the song.

That was the next single. What did they? And they like, they just sort of, she gave me. No. It was, this one of your costume, you know, when you have like the, she had a weird costume on with some headlights on that ass.

But it was a wireless microphone, I think, something on the back of something that kind of made it jet out funny. So the angles quarter said made it look, she's two pounds if that and it made it look like she's like three pounds. Yeah, exactly. So literally the radio was saying, because they were sending the single next day, they were like, you're not sending us the fat song. And it just, it killed the momentum of that song. And honestly, I mean, if I'm, if I'm going to tell you, that, that performance, that, the backgrounds on that song for me is the most proud I am of any background I've done. recorded in my career because of the fact that I got to use my classical training.

All of that. I did all of them voices from the bar to the... I did all of those. Can we kind of ask you about that? Because Bill sent a video, audio of when she was in high school. And I was like, this can't really be Sondra. It was like the opera. I do.

We're nerds. I know how to find things. Uh-oh. We're nerds. We're the government. Uh-oh. We're the government. Hope they don't find that Vanessa del Rio tape.

Oh, no. Do that. Oh, that's play school now. I know right. Well, wait, Sandra St. Same Victor. Range, ma'am. Well, no, I mean, I was trained.

I mean, you know, I went to, like, music and art, where Erica went, where Roy Hargrove went, Nora Jones. All that shit went out the window when she made us. Listen. They told me to stop being so perfect. Then I was at, you know, Ed's like, oh, really? Okay. Yeah.

Rock and roll. Can you, I might get it erased. Can you still hit the? You still got that? Of course. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's in you, you know. So the classical training never leaves you.

But that's what I got. The best training I got isn't being in the studio, Pete and Jeff, telling me the feel is the most important thing. The feel. Don't lose the feel. I'm like, can I do that again? They're like, no, I felt good. You're not doing it again.

I'm like, please, got to do it again? Like, nope. So, yeah. Yeah, they didn't let me, you know, perform. It's perfect it. They don't let me perfect it. So, you know,

they're like that. So after two takes, then it's like, that's a right. Whatever to take is right. Whenever to take is right. And I wanted to be like something else. But if it feels right,

and they both end up, you know, they're like that and Mark Batson is like that. These are those producers don't care if the note is right. If the, if the, if the, the,

they want the take to feel right. That's the, the, the, the prime objective. So, you know, that's important because, you know, I listened, I was actually today listened to a bunch of, like, you know, 70s and 80s stuff like Jean Carn and, you know, infantized.

And I'm like, she ain't singing it. It ain't like perfect. It's about the feel. It's about, you know, it's about where she's coming from with the note. It's not about where the note lands, where she come from. But it's funny because she still has a similar background as you where. She knows how to do it, Classics. Yeah, she's classically trying to.

Jeff, you're not getting away with this. I'm sorry. Come on, Madsen billion. Come on, man. I have to at least back up the tree in at least 15 years just to start with. For starters, you were taught by Yusef Latif? No, I studied with him for a second in college. For a second in, I wasn't taught by him.

I went to Borough of Manhattan Community College for about a year. That was just my extent of college Because once I Made it out of high school I don't know how I said Let me get college to try So I got in there And I studied with him for a little while

And he was You know He was showing me some things In fact I didn't even know he played flute I didn't know the flute was his thing Right And you know I just Once a week

I go and he You know We just do some private lesson things And you know That's about my extent the extent of me studying with him. What is your preferred weapon of choice as far as your arsenal?

Is a soprano, alto tenor? I've been playing a lot of soprano lately. I don't want to... I mean, gun to your head, what's your axe? Because you have so many... Tenor. Don't say gun to... Tenor with this guy.

Right, no right. Good one. You're right. on that one. Put my shit out of there. I've been playing a lot of soprano probably the last maybe

four or five years. I've been playing a lot of soprano, a lot of soprano. I love you on Barry, though. I love you on Barry. I love me on Barry too, but that doesn't make me enough. Okay, so here's the question I have.

So our particular sax player, Ian Hendrickson Smith, formerly of the Dab Kings. Oh, okay. And so the thing is that Ian hates when I make him break out the soprano. He doesn't like to Spanoff?

Now, for us, it's hilarious. But he hates the sheen associated with the soprano. Well, I mean, that, and, you know, it's almost like, I guess the unwritten rule is, like, after Coltrane, you know, is done with it.

Who else wants to? And more power of Wayne shorter, more power to, you know, I know there are other greats that have touched. I didn't like Coltrane's sound on soprano. You serious? I didn't like his sound on soprano. You are one of a kind. I didn't like his sound on soprano.

Tanner, he's my favorite all time, but soprano I didn't like his tone on soprano. Who did you like on soprano? I like Wayne Shorter. Oh, yeah, okay. So you feel the definitive sound of the soprano sax is Wayne Shorter? No, not the definitive sound. His sound just connects with me. more on soprano.

Coltrane, because I think he got, if I remember correctly, that was something that was a gift from Miles, right? Yes. Yeah, so, you know, he picked it up. I guess he was trying to do something. But I wasn't crazy about his sound, sonically his sound. I wasn't crazy about his sound. So what were you looking for, as far as engineering or?

I wasn't looking for anything. It just wasn't connecting me. It just sounded kind of... Contrived. No, not even contrived. I think he was sincere about what he was doing, but It just didn't sound. It wasn't for me. That's the best way I could describe it.

So what's your favorite period of Coltrane then? Giant steps. All right. It's a mid period. Or even before that. No, the stuff when he started going out. You don't like the primitive and. The stuff when he started, I mean, I liked the, I mean, the stuff where he started going

out, it just got a little bit too out for me. Okay. But the era of giant steps before that, you know, stuff he was doing in the, 60s with Miles was I loved all of that stuff I mean he had like a sound to me he just had his sound just connected I remember so who's your sax god then because I just naturally assume that everyone worships the cultry no matter what yeah cult train no matter what I mean I like Michael Brecker he was like that that cat to me um unsung-sung hero okay you know uh I mean, those two guys

I mean, there's just so many guys I mean, I could go back to Dexter Gordon and Perez was his, had his own sound, you know, the smooth thing. Bird was just, Bird was fast. I mean, ah, man, Bird was just,

I don't know, man. Okay, so explain to me because the thing is that you managed to capture the one thing I always hear about when an iconic solo is captured in a song, it's always the same story. And the story is, okay, guys, I'm ready to cut it. Nope, we got it already. Thank you very much. I know that's your story. Yeah. But are you, once, did you know that you captured lightning in a bottle with your saxophone solo in Caribbean? No. No, that, that, I have to give credit to the,

producer Keith Diamond at the time because he was the one that he knew pretty much what he wanted in terms of of the song so we would just take sections because I mean I went into the studio and I was just kind of trying to get a feel of what the song was and they had the tape rolling he told Bob Rosa to roll the tape while I was playing and I was in front of the mic they were trying to get a sound so I said okay I think I got something and then he said no come on in. So you were just warming up. I was just warming up.

You didn't beg them to let me just do a take of it. No, no. That song was pieces because he had the whole tape rolling and he took pieces of what I played throughout the, from the beginning of the song to the end. I want you to play this part here. And we just kind of constructed the solo. And the interesting thing about it is like after that song blew up, man, I was getting calls like everybody in their mother.

that was calling me. And my friend Van, he said, yo, Jeff, you need to start charging people because I was undercharging people. He said, you know, your shit is hot. You need to get paid for it. So I just started charging people. Going up a little more?

Yeah. I went up a lot more. I will say, Steve couldn't attest to this. So when Billy Ocean finally agreed to come on a show, and this is after six long years of begging him. Please come on the Tonight Show.

Please, please, please. Tonight show. And he finally agrees to come to the show and we're losing our shit and then I'm looking at Ian, our sax player and we were like, dude, you have to do it note for fucking...

And... Hello. Do we spend two hours just singing that shit to him? But you don't know that. Like everybody knows that solo. Like between that solo and Carolyn's whisper. Yeah, yeah.

Those are the solos of the ages. But here's the thing, though, it's like I know a lot of Tariq's lyrics. Uh-huh. Tariq, you know, I mean, Tariq, well, let me not misrepresent him. I think the average person knows, like, can retain, like, maybe 75 songs or 75, those things. but it's just like I mean I know that song because I DJed so much I you know

watch TV all the time. You're an American Americans who were born before 80 have to know that that note for note that's a solo like like she mentioned chief is like deep like he's like Doug Carn he's frie jazz Okay

Boozy jazz, boozy jazz It's not boozy jazz like he's more avant guard that's where his heart is I mean he made his meat and potatoes as the Dap King So all that like... You don't think it's boozy when you don't know the solo to Caribbean. Come on man. No, no, no, you know it, but I don't think

like anybody that's on the Tonight Show now, like again, my story is that I didn't grow up saying, hey, one day I'm going to be the new Doc Severnson of the Tonight Show. It just happened. And I'm prepared for it. But part of the job of being on the Tonight Show is that you, all the pop culture,

sponging that you've done your life, everything you've learned now gets utilized on the show. So, you know, I mean, you know that solo, but it's like now you've got to execute it perfectly. Executed, that's different. Well, yeah, that's, no, that's, that's, careful.

I love that solo, man. Right, wait. Wait. Wait. All right. All right. All right. Now you're singing Sanford and Sunday.

No. I don't know. Did you do. Dan, did it. Dan, did it. Dan, did it. Did you still. When's the last time you had to play that solo verbatim?

Or don't tell me 35 years ago after I did it, that was it? When I had to play it? I can't. You didn't tour with him at all? Oh, no, no, no, no. The only two times I really played with him was one night. The week, the night, he was on Saturday Night Live. He did two nights at Radio City.

Those were the only times that I ever played with Billy. And ironically, the last night that I played with him was when I lost the horn that I had. Because we went out. You literally lost that horn? No, let me tell you what happened. After the show, you know, because he sold out Radio City two nights, I sat him with him two nights. The second night we went and we, after the show, we went to kind of celebrate, you know, went up, got a couple of drinks. I went down into the, after we were done, I went down into the garage to get my car.

The guy brought my car. My horn was in the back of the car. I didn't put it in the car yet. I paid, went and paid for the cart and drove off and left my horn. When I got home, I looked in the trunk. I was like, oh, shit. So I went back to the garage. Of course, they didn't see nothing.

They didn't see, they didn't see, nobody saw anything. So the only time I ever see that horn for reruns of Saturday Night Live. And ironically, my- Somewhere in life, there's like some grandkid that got a saxophone for church. Yeah, yeah. Not knowing what they just got. Yeah, well, somebody, yeah, some. Jesus Christ.

That thing should be in a blacksonian. Come on. Blacksonian, yeah. So, Sandra. Yes, I know. Okay. So your journey is just as rich as well. I'll tell you, we're not even going to get,

properly get to the family stand. This is almost like a nine-part episode. Prequel. I know. Open doors. This is fun. How much pounding of the payment did you do in New York

Oh wait can you wait one second please We're getting a phone call Oh really? We're getting a phone call right now Are we? James Harris the third Yes sir What's up man

How you doing? I'm currently right now Taping an episode of Quest Love Supreme Okay I regret to form you of this And I've made it public I've declared my loyalty My allegiance to you

Since the history of my show But you are now officially in second place as... I'm sorry. You hang up? You've been... You've been demoted. You've been demoted to second place because the family stand episode is the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. Is that right?

Yes, I'm currently right now with V. Jeffrey, Sanger Saint-V. Victor and Peter. And yeah, I had to tell you that live on the air that... We love you, bro, by the way. We love you, love you know that. Thank you for giving me the heads up on Prince. I don't need sympathy love. They got to hit you on serious radio, by the way.

Now they're like, they're going to do your show. Yes, I don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We want to come on your show too. We'll be there. We'll be there. Just call us. More sympathy love.

More sympathy love. I'm sorry. This is the craziest, the stories I've heard. You know, like we're very organized. We're going to chronological order. No, it's just going all over the places. It's not really happening. I can't wait to hear it, man.

Yes, man. Anyway, I just want to let you know you're number two, but you're still number one, but you're number two now. This ain't going to be six hours. What'd you say? I'm still number one as a solo act, though. Yes. You're the number of solo.

Thank you. I'm just going to go get my category together. All right. You're still the number one solo act on Quest Love Supreme. Thank you. Okay, perfect. Okay. Thank you.

All right, bro. Much love, Jimmy. All right, bro. That's what I. Oh, God. Of course, Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHartRadio, this is the IHartRadio, app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi You Wanto. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one. which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions,

and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud,

and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up?

He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.