The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Tito Jackson

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

This week, the world lost a music legend in Tito Jackson. In January of 2020, Questlove Supreme first broadcast this 82-minute interview with the heralded guitarist, vocalist, and member of The Jacksons. As our hearts are heavy in mourning, listen to this lighthearted discussion which was taped in-studio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is my friend. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of IHard Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.

Coming up this seasonal Math and Magic, CEO of of Liquid Death Mike Cesario. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower. It's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take to Interactive CEO, Strauss Selnick, and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Listen to Math and Magic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio.

Can you turn me up a little bit? All right, bet. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, subprima roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, sub, suprema roll call. Suprema, sub, sub, subprima roll call. We're making them chips? Yeah.

Or should I say Fritos? Yeah. With the most laid bad jackson of all? Yeah. Terranio a darrell? Suprima, sub, sub, subprima, subprima. Supremma, sub, sub. Supreme Roll Call.

My name is Sugar. Yeah. This sure is needo. Yeah. To be right here. Yeah. On Iheart radio. Suprema.

Suprema roll call. Nice. Suprima. Sraima. Superma role call. Islaeam. Yeah. Your favorite black one.

Yeah. With my man Tito. Yeah. The finest jackson. Roll call. Suprima. Subima. Submira.

Submira. Ro call. Suprema, Supraima, Roll Call. Boss Bill's my name, yeah. Northern Indiana boy. Yeah. The Jackson family? Yeah.

Brought me a whole lot of joy. Roll call. Suprema, Supremia, sub, subprima, roll call. Supremma, Supremma, sub, sub, Supremma, Roll Call. My name is Terry Alma.

Yeah. My last name is Jackson. Yeah. I come with the action. Yeah. That's a matter of faction. Roll call. Yeah.

Supremma, Suprema roll call Suprema Subrema role call Suprema Subrema Subra role call Suprema

Subrema Role Call Wow I just recorded a song with a Jackson Yeah Didn't you made it Wait this is our second recording With the Jackson Yeah

Yeah Randy We're experienced now We're honorary Jackson's Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. How are you doing? And now we got Sugar Steve. Hello.

How's it going, Steve? It's going good, man. I've never seen all 38 and 15. 38. That sounds like not enough. You got it doesn't. Well, I think, you know, just enough. Lyia, how's life?

Stupendez and I'm in this. All right. And boss Bill. What's up? Wow. even boss bill's happy right yeah yeah jobs you know i'd usually start every quest love supreme episode with a barrage of hyperbole and praise that usually takes about seven minutes but if you don't know who are a guest is the day ladies and gentlemen and you listen to quest love supreme he's been under

a rock yeah something something's wrong here literally i i will say a member of probably one of the most love and respected musical dynasties, uh, celebrating their 50th anniversary in show business. Wow. I remember that soul train episode where it was like their 10th anniversary in show business. Now it's 50. That's incredible, man. That's, that's a legacy for your ass.

Ladies and gentlemen, what else can I say? But welcome Tito Jackson. Yes. Two course love Supreme. Benjamin Button Jackson. Yeah. And I was about to say, requesting and you, you, when I, I walked in the room.

You thought it was my nephew. Yeah. That's a compliment. You're taking care of yourself, man. Well, I always knew that you and your brother, Jackie, had proper government names. That weren't your stage names. So how did you, was Tito your middle name or your, how did you get your moniker Tito?

Papa. Papa Joe named me after Boxer named Tito something. I don't know. So Tito's on your birth certificate. No, it's not. Oh, never mind. Okay. My birth certificate name is Terriama.

Okay. Terriano. Adarro. Adairal Jackson. Wait, those are so many names. Terriano, Darryl Jackson? Yes, right. Adarle.

A darrell. Yes. That's only three names, the first, a middle and the last, like everybody else, Margaret. Terriano's Adero. Okay. Terriano. Oh, I'm sorry, Tio. So at what point were you Tito?

Every since I can remember. All right. So all your life, your siblings. I've been Tito. Most people. know me by Tito. And what surprised me, we have a corporation with the brothers and my brother handed me a credit card American Express.

Instead of having my real name, Tariano, it had Tito Jackson. I said, Jackie, I can't use this. Right. I don't have one piece of ID that says Tito Jackson. Oh, see, I understand this because nobody in my family has ever called me by my birth name. Right. I've always been either junior or Junebook.

Really? Yeah. Only we call you, Bill? Yeah. Oh, okay. Only my friends and people I work with call me by my real name. Everybody else. See, now that I've put this on the internet, y'all are going to mess that up.

Damn. Yes, Junebug. I cannot wait for call you June. Matter fact, you're no longer born. Oh, no. You are Junebug. So, okay, so Tito was your nickname. So unless it's time to take out the garbage, then were you like,

Terri-ia! Didn't pay attention. Then that sort of thing. Yeah. I see. Teeter won't have no chores? I had plenty of chores. Yeah, I was about to say.

I know. I know you did. I have plenty of chores. Okay. Oh, yeah. So I know you're probably tired of recapitulating the story over and over and over again. Okay, is there a question about Gary, Indiana, that you've not been asked that we don't know about? Well, maybe.

I don't know. It depends on what you want to ask. Well, what I'm really curious about, I'm more curious about the creative process of how things come together. And I know that, and without the whatever, under the watchful eye of the Iron Hand of Jewel Sergeant Joe, whatever. But I know that to get to that level of perfection, you have to put hours and hours and hours and hours of practice in. Exactly. So could you give me what a typical itinerary was, pre-Motown, of you guys prepping for your talent shows? Of course I can.

Well, it was more like, go to school, come home, put them books over in the corner. The mics are already set up all five microphones, amps are on standby, and we're doing it, and the kids are still walking home from school, and they're stopping by hearing the music. pushing each other out the way, trying to take a look or whatever. And we rehearsed maybe three or four hours prior to doing the show that night. We usually go to Chicago, play the peppermint lounge or the high shoparral, something like that. Then get home like two in the morning, you know, and go to school. Next day, wake up at 6, 7 in the morning, go to school.

Were you allowed any downtime from when school let out to home? or was it like for me the fear was you better be home before the Oprah theme comes on. I had to be home at three at three, yeah that bell like when Carlton starts dancing

my reaction is when I hear that whistle it's just it's just like I had to be home at 3.59 PM. Well my father's thing was when we weren't doing music he said don't let the street lights catch you. Yes.

If those street lights are on and you're not in the house you're in trouble. Yeah. Nice. Okay. So wait, can I ask a question? How often did you guys do the showcase or the talent show thing? Because you still have to do homework. Well, we rehearsed every day.

And we do our home break between breaks. Oh, yeah. So what kind of students were you guys? Well, great students. Great students. Yeah. We also traveled with a tutor after we had made it professionally. And they have rules, of course, state laws.

The kids have to work so many hours. Now he has to have so many hours. of a break. So we had a teacher by the name of Rose Fine, and she taught, she was so cool because she would let me smoke my cigarette right in class. I'm sorry, sir. Wait, you were smoking as a team? I was smoking as a team, you know, absolutely.

Were you the rebellious, Jackson? Some people say that, but I don't think so. Like, who's the first to really test the waters to, like, I'm going to break curfew? You're not going to hit me with that belt. So was the myth true of the whole guitar thing? Because the thing is that the way that was presented in the biopic, you know, you were doing chords and stuff already. So how long did it take you to, from the first time you eyed that guitar,

to learn chords and all those things before the string broke? Oh, it took a little while. It took at least three to four months. You know, I was just playing with it. And I used to go, and my uncle Luther and my father would play a lot of blues, Jimmy Reed, Bobby King, all these guys from old school. And I just sit there and just stare. You know, he knew I was interested.

And I just stare and stare. And when he would go to work, he'd go to myself and Germain and Jackie, he would go, I'm going to work. Don't none of you boys touch my guitar. I'm putting it here in the closet. You know, and being a kid, you don't. say that. You know, and we want to touch it even more. So I would take the guitar, I'd play it for hours. My mom would let me play it all day long. And she said, honey, your father's going to be home

soon? Put it away. You know, so she was protecting me until I broke that string. Didn't know what to do. She didn't know you, right? How long did the Falcons last your father's unit? I have no idea of that because I was so young at that time, you know, but they were around a little while. I was basically just a kid trying to play some music with my uncle and my father. And they would play blues all day and they had me doing, dun, they get all the lead parts and they give me maybe a minute at the end of the jam section. Okay, you can play now.

You know, and I play whatever I could, you know, mistakes and all, whatever. You know, and that was it. So by the time you guys were formed and the Falcons weren't necessarily doing that thing? No, they weren't at that time. Okay, I see. I just recently not discovered. I didn't realize there was a whole message. I knew the Steeltown recordings was 45,

but I didn't realize that there were a collection of other songs from that era. But, I mean, of course, you know, someone's going to come up, like, start cash in. So half of it was just rehearsals, whatever. But at the time when you guys got your thing together with Steeltown, was that like an excitement feeling? like this is jackpot it can't get no better than this oh yeah we thought we had made big time you know still town was a local label out of gary indiana and their their reach wasn't very far i think uh we thought we made some noise in texas and we made some noise in gary and i can't

think of anywhere else in america that it was hidden so that was pretty much the success of that first record i'm a big boy now okay and knowing that you that you're not you're not you're not you guys played the, I guess you could say, the chitland circuit of the day. Where were some of the venues that you, the major venues? We used to do the Regal Theater in Chicago. Was that equivalent to the Apollo? Yes, Chicago. As far as the pressure.

Yes, Chicago's version of the Apollo, you know, Regal Theater. We've seen an open up for Jackie Wilson, Gladys Knight, Bobby Taylor, and the Vancouver's. We were basically a local band that the pros used to come through Chicago, and we were the opening act. And every once in a while we'd go to the Uptown in Philly, and we'll go to the Powell Theater here in New York. That was pretty much the big dates for us. So I would assume that your dad would do all the driving?

We had this other man by the name of Jack Richardson, who was a friend of my father. He would do a lot of the driving, because my father would work sometime, and Jack Richardson would take us to the performances as my father went to work. I'm just trying to imagine how all the equipment, and there's no such thing as backline and all that stuff.

Yeah, we had a Volkswagen bus, Volkswagen bus, so we would load everything in the bus, and back then you traveled with your own PA system as well as your amps and everything. That's what I'm saying. Like, how did you guys squeeze? We slept on the amps. Oh, wow.

We slept on the amps. We took all the seats out the car. Oh, wow. Okay, I was trying to figure out the configuration of how did you get the amps and the seats in there. I wish you guys could see the look on Laia's face right now. Well, no, no, we do that. I mean, there's a 15-passenger van.

No, no, no, no. They're driving way further than you guys do in this uncomfortable situation. No, in the beginning, we didn't get our first tour of us to, like, our second album. So. Listen to this, Tito. He's comparing 1960s to that.

No, I'm just saying I get, I'd never thought about taking out the seats. Okay, it makes sense. You can sit on the amps. Hell of uncomfortable, but pre-seatbelts too, right? Kind of middle-passagerish. Yes, pre-seatbelts, exactly. Do you remember since you were a teenager at this time, right? Y'all are touring your teenager?

Yes, I was a young teenager, maybe 12, 13 years old. Do you remember what it was like going to these different cities in this time of... It was exciting. You know, I remember. You know, I remember. You're talking about civil rights era. I'm talking about civil rights era, too. Oh, yeah, I remember all of that. They used to put us in the back of the hotel near the dumpsters.

You know, we were little kids making a lot of noise, and they wanted us away from the front desk. Really? Oh, no one in the hallways and those things. Exactly. And we did it all. So can you finally put the official stamp on who brought you to motel? I understand that the...

Yes, I can. It was actually, it was two people. I say it's responsible for bringing us to Motown. And that would be Gladys Night. Okay. Because she tells me the story every time I'm like, all right, you're one of like 12 people now. No, Gladys Knight.

Gladys Knight, Big instrumental. And Bobby Taylor, Van Coors. Okay. And basically with Dina Ross, the story with Dinah Ross, just basically she presented us to the world. Yeah, marketing. Yes, exactly.

She had just gone solo. She was getting ready to do her first solo record at the time, too, right? So that would have been like she had did it or what would get ready, but they used Dina Ross presents to Jackson 5. Yeah, Barry was thinking of marketing. And mind you, Tommy Chong was in. Oh, yeah. Tommy Chong was the guitar player then. Yeah.

Bobby Taylor and Vancouver's. So how long was it until after that audition at Motel? Or at least the one that we saw that where it was like official. Not long. They got us in the studio pretty much right away. You know, we were in the studio within a month. But the thing about it, when we had did that audition, we didn't think we would be signed because Barry was in the corner very stern. He didn't show no expression.

And we were like doing our thing and saying, do he like us and this and that? And we had heard he don't want more children on his label. He had a hard time with Stevie Wonder with the social workers. He can't record you all. already had him in the studio for four hours. I got to take him home. He got work. He got school tomorrow. Say, what I'm going to do with

five kids? I can't handle one. And I guess it was Gladys and Bobby that convinced him that you have to hear these children. Because I always wanted a thing on that tape, Michael asked, how was that or something like, sir? And I never knew what the answer was.

Yeah. What were you saying, Bill? Speaking of five kids from the Chicago land area, go back to Primo Town a little bit were the five stair steps were you guys like in competition with them

constantly or? We were friends you know fire stair steps is a great group their young group like Jackson's were back then and they had a song out by the name of Uchow

it was made a lot of noise at that time and they used to travel and we would travel right behind them or with them or what have you yeah I was going to say

between the silvers of Tennessee especially because they got such an early start. Leon told us they're from Indiana too. Well, he was born in Indiana in South Bend, where I'm from. That I forgot about. Leon Silver's? Yeah.

Oh, I didn't know that. I totally forgot about that. So, I mean... I'll never forget that, man. Of course. Everybody born in Indiana, I remember. So was it when it's time to do these shows? And I forgot.

Even the emotions said that they were running to you guys off to, Oh, yeah, the emotions. We used to run into emotions, and back in the day, it wasn't Earthwaring and Fire. They were called Teabach Simmons. It was a band. He didn't tell us that. He didn't tell us that? Yeah, they were in a band called Teabox Simmons, and they would play the same place, the hot chaparral.

And, yeah, we came up with those guys as well in emotions. So you're saying that a month after that audition, you guys got the news that you got accepted at Motown? Oh, yeah. We got that matter of fact, we got that pretty much at the audition. Because he walked over to us after we had finished our audition. And we didn't know what he was going to say. He walked over and said, I'm going to take your first three records, number one. Oh, okay.

And we said, what? That was unheard of, especially about black artists, you know, three records, number one in the country. Right. You know, all the charts. He did four times. Yeah. Yeah. So he did it four times.

When do you officially consider like your last day or period in Gary, Indiana? As in Rear View Murer, never turning back, we're moving to... Well, we moved to California back in 1969. Okay. And it was funny because our neighbor, this young lady by the name of Brenda White, she used to always say, you Jackson's, all of you guys in that little house making all that noise. Y'all ain't going nowhere. So, you know, our motivation.

Oh, oh, her. You're talking about it in Gary, Indiana. Oh, okay. I was like, wait, who lived in Beverly Hills? Right. I was thinking. Named Brenda. Yeah, Brinda.

My bad for seeing that. Just keep watching. You'll see. You'll see. Did y'all ever circle back to her? Please tell me. I haven't seen her since. Well, I mean, you guys must have seen you a few times.

Of course. Of course. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow

at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and our Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86.

I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer... Football. ...is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the iHeart. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money.

It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail.

And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. My observations with you guys is that your family was really the first to reap the benefits of the, I have a dream speech. I consider you guys really the first beneficiaries of kind of the accumulated, whatever was being fought for for the civil rights movement. You guys were the beginning of that dream.

And then people see you guys and they want to do great and so on and so on and so forth. So, but I know that being the first, and by being the first, really being like the lone black faces and a lot of white spaces and being first, how fish out of water was your experience moving to Los Angeles? I'm assuming that you guys lived in Beverly Hills first. Yeah, we lived in Hollywood first on the street called Queens Road. And then we moved to Beverly Hills. But it was really exciting. You know, we've never seen a palm tree or anything like that. So just to land in LAX Airport, it was like exciting seeing the lights and the palm trees

and the weather so tropical and all these things. It was like paradise to us. Nobody wanted to go back to Gary, Indiana at that time. Cold winters, you know, freezing, walking to school in three and four foot snow. You know, who wants that? But was there ever a feeling? Like, at least with my experience is, where I know, like, I'm the lone shark in a odd situation.

And I don't mean like an odd situation. Like, everything's like redneck down south. But I just mean, like, showing up it, you know, black tie dinners and I'm the only black person here or that sort of thing. We were always motivated and anxious and ready to do whatever it took and whatever. But you guys never felt like. No, no, we never had those feelings. Or felt uncomfortable.

No. Not really until they put us in the back by the garbage cans. Oh, Motown period of touring. Oh, yeah. Well, y'all was just loud. Okay. We deserve it right. We deserve to give it to this trash.

So did you think at that point the rigorous rehearsals and schedules would slow down somewhat a little bit? They didn't. They increased, matter of fact. But did you think that it would? I thought we made. made it and that means you don't have to do too much of that type of thing, you know. But, of course, you know Quest as a musician that you got to keep it going, baby. You got to rehearse and Motown rehearsed us very, very, very hard.

They went through every little move, every step, everything. Okay, so in Motown period, what would, now that you're in L.A., what is your typical itinerary there? We would go to school. What school do you guys go to? We went to private school. At first I went to public school called Fairfax High in Los Angeles

and that only lasted so long until after the S. Sullivan show and the hit records, the students chased us away. We moved to Beverly Hills and I went to another school by the name of Universal High School. And that last, I was in that school

two months. Then they figured out we can't go to a public school. So you guys were just that too famous to even do that? Yeah, we had a few hit records out, and the kids were, like, recognizing us, and they were peeking the class and that whole thing, and screaming girls running down the hall and that whole thing. How did that feel?

I mean, did it feel like a goldfish or, like, hey. It was kind of scary because all the dudes wanted to whip your butt. Because the girls wanted you. Jealousy and that whole thing, you know, so they figured these guys can't go to school here. We've got to put them in a private school. How close was, for your public school experiences, how close was what we know as L.A. gang culture in those public schools? Like, did you have to worry about that? Well, I remember, I remember my brother was dating this young lady by the name of Kathy Baccombe.

And Dorsey High School is in Gary as well. Not Gary, I'm sorry, Los Angeles. You're talking about Jackie? Jackie, yeah. And this other guy from Dorsey really dug this girl. And he came over, brought about four or five guys over to Fairfax, calling themselves going to whip our butt. And they didn't know that we're from Gary in the alley.

We may sing and talk about ABC and girl, I think I love you, but we can whip some butt when we have to because we grew up in a hood. And my father had always told us to take care of ourselves because what he would do, he would invite all the kids in the neighborhood it over on Saturdays and have boxing matches, make us box the kids. So that wasn't, I was wondering how real that team was. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I was going to ask you, how much should we consider of that Jackson's story that Amir referring to the American Dream? How much of that should we consider as truth? A lot of it is true. You know, my father was rough, but he wasn't as rough as they portrayed him. They dramatized it. He's a black daddy, right? He's a black daddy, right?

You got a switch. You got a belt, pick one. We all know that story. I have a black daddy. I have a black daddy. Anyway, man. So, yeah, I was going to say how often was the, that's the thing I never had because, you know, because of the age gap between me and my siblings. Well, your last name is love.

Not a high deal. It is now. I never had that like I'm gonna get my brother mess you you know like that's that's the one thing you never mess you never mess with yeah you would never mess with the youngest person

on any block because they could always say I'm gonna get my cousin and fuck you like that sort of thing but that put pressure on Tito because he wanted the oldest yeah I was about to say and we always thought you were the oldest anyway no I'm not I'm not you're third in line

yeah I'm like two and a half years younger than Jackie but Jermaine used to always start fights in elementary school and Kerry and he was started he was started and leave me there

to fight his battle then run home and say Mother Tito fighting Yeah he did that part a few times So socially How do you guys pair off As far as peers

Like who Is your Yeah I know that All of you are close Yada yada whatever But like Who's your road Who are the road dog groups in the Jackson family?

Well, Jermaine and I hung out together. Marlon and Michael, of course, hung together. And Jackie just mingled in with all us. He was like big brother telling us what to do. It's time to rehearse. No, you can't do that. We got to rehearse, you know. So he's the alpha father figure?

Yeah, he was older than everyone. The responsible one. Yes. Okay, I see. Who was the snitch in the family? The tattletale. Germain? Oh, okay.

He can't tell everything. Middle brother. He tells so much he tell on his self. He don't even... That's usually how it works out with the Tadot and the family. Actually, you know what? You're right about that. You're right about that.

There's, um, uh, Harry from Motown once played me a tape of, uh, there's an EPK. Well, not an EPK, but kind of an audio EPK of, just like, you know, rapping with a Jackson Five, whatever, where you guys are just talking for a half hour about your hobbies and all that stuff. But Jermaine, all of his portions were about, like, kind of provoking the brothers. Like, Michael, remember that time when you got in trouble for da-da-da-da-da? And Tito, remember that time you got in trouble?

I was like, yo, like, why is he snitching? What the hell? I'm also very curious about you and your brother Jermaine's craft as as guitarist and bass players now I know that Motown had a strict system which of course you long to get away from

once you went to Epic but I will say that based on the evidence of a lot of live tapes that I've heard heard of the concerts and especially with going to Indiana the special going back to Indiana going back to Indiana that yeah you two were at the top of your game as far as like covering

like really in fine form what the Funk brothers were doing on record and all those things Yeah, because back in the Jackson five early days of doing concert tours, our band consists of myself and Jermaine and Ronnie Ransifer on Oregon and Johnny Jackson on drums. And that was the band. So how often were you, who was the MD of that particular, of just band rehearsals? Actually, I was. I was pretty much.

How were the early shows crafted? Not the adult period of the Daxons, but like the early shows. Well, you talking prior to Motown? Not prior to Motown. Like, once you guys were doing Motown. Because one thing that I think that our audience doesn't understand, like, when you're on your first two records, sometimes you have to do cover songs. We did covers. Yes, we did.

And the songs of the day. We did a lot of the album songs we had, but a lot of those songs were covers as well. So basically that's what we did. We covered temptations or whether it was four tops or whoever. Yeah, we did a lot of covers then. Who were you? Well, I'm curious about your record collection. Like, by the time that you moved to LA, I'm certain that you sort of accumulated.

Isley Brothers and the Miracles, of course, all the Motown temps and all that kind of stuff, OJs. Who's your go-to? like your favorite, who were your Jackson's go-to group? Like, who was your favorite group? Jackson's go-to group was the temptations. Really? As far as a group. Yes, temptations. We love to, and sly. Okay. So were you guys at all thrown off? Being as though you were able to see it in real time, were you kind of thrown off by

the Norman Whitfield period of that group, like to go from what they were, the smooth presentation of what I assume that is the blueprint of what you guys were, to suddenly they're hippie, let's keep up with Slice Stone. period. Yeah, I think we were... 17-minute intros. Yeah, we were basically just trying to follow style.

You know, the Fly and the Family Stone is very musical. You know, they're a little different type of setup than a Temptations type of group. They're more musical. So we enjoyed that, you know, like songs like thank you and all this stuff.

You know, slide was the man. You know, we love Billy Preston as well. Were you able to go to a concert? Like, how often would you see other shows that weren't your, like any time off or. Not that often. Unless you're on the show. Yeah, or we run across them

somewhere, somehow. Yeah. Was there any act that not even feeling like they might be a threat, but like that's the level we need to get to. Like, stair steps.

Five stair steps was one of those groups that we used to look at and say, that's what we have to be like, you know, or that was that rival, you know, how you have a rival group or whatever. Oh, yeah. What was it, because I've only seen, like, maybe one or two performances of theirs. Like, what was it about their presentation then?

Well, I think we loved the way they dressed, the way they carried theirself. And they were professionals, you know. We were trying to get to that stage in our game, you know. So they had it already. They would come over to the Palo Theater and just tear it up. The young ladies would scream and holler and chase them on stage. That's what we want. How frightening was the Apollo experience, even though, I mean, I'm talking about past amateur

hour once you guys were even established, like, was there still fear of like we still better rocket or else? Yeah, yeah. We never really concentrated on like trying to go past what we thought we could have been. We just did what we can do, did our best at what we could do. And that usually turned out to be pretty cool. So that's where that was. I know that in the vault of Motown, there are hundreds, like Tupac level, Prince level, of volume of finished recorded songs, songs that are fully mixed in everything.

And not, you know, the final nine or ten songs that make a particular Jackson album. Like, I think at last count, I saw at least somewhere, like, 200 plus songs. So what is the process of how songs were divided or, like, how did you guys make decisions? Well, we didn't make those type of decisions, you know. They just told you. We would come home from school, right in the studio, every day. If we didn't have a concert or on the road, we would go straight to the studio

and do our homework in the studio, get home about 10 o'clock at night. And that was it. We used to do a song a day, you know, background, leave vocals, and if we had any cleanup, we'd do it on the weekends. So, I mean, whose decision was it to,

like, was it everything like, okay, so here's some 10 songs, and what do you guys dig? Well, I think Motown pretty much picked the songs that we were recorded. And with Hal Davis and the corporation, Freddie Parenthood and all those guys, you know, they already had it laid out for us. They had done the keys and all those type of things,

and they cut the tracks and have us to come in later and do the vocals on him. So the various producers, James Carmichael, Hal David, the Mazel brothers for a second? Yeah, Dick Richards, France, Maisel. Who? Did you, who did you or the brothers particularly favor as a producer? Well, we loved working with Hal Davis because he was funny.

Okay. You know, we would joke a lot in the studio, and he was so serious about it, and we little kids just playing on the mic and not serious, and he had pushed record waiting here. We just start laughing. Come on, guys. Come on. You know, he was really, really a lot of fun.

But we also enjoyed the corporation, which was Deke Richards' fun, Mizell and Freddie Parent and Barry Gordy. They called himself the corporation. And they were a lot of fun. They were a lot of fun as well. They were young men just finishing college with the musical scholarships, and they were great writers. So how long were you guys given a particular song to learn and absorb?

We learned it on spot. Learned in the studio. Okay, so like... All right, so Home Along and Dance, which sounds like 12 minutes, and all of you have designated parts. So would they take you one by one, or is it just...

Well, certain parts were taking one by one, certain parts were taken as a group. And like I said, we learned that song right on the spot, you know. We go in the studio and in the control room, sit with the producer, He'll go through it, this line. This is your line, Jermaine, this is your line, Michael,

this is your line, brothers, you know, and that whole thing. Wait, can you answer a question for me? Sure. I always wanted to know this. Okay, be honest. When the, when you guys were recording Rhythm Child, was there feeling the air like, okay, this is going to be a bigger,

this is going to be bigger than dance machine? Because basically it's the same narrative and the same DNA as Dancing Machine. So in my mind, I felt like, oh, you guys really felt like she's a rhythm child, it's going to be like the new Dancing Machine in 1974. Well, Dancing Machine is the only song.

You know, that song is so magical. I love the song, and I didn't think that. So I was just doing what they told us to do. Okay. I've always wanted to know who brought in, I'll bet you for the ABC album. Baby, I bet you. I can't remember that.

I think that may have been, I can't remember, I'm sorry. Well, I think Barry was hands-on at least for the ABC record as far as navigating it. Yeah, Barry would let the producers work with us, and they would send a copy of the track or whatever we had did that date to him. He would study it and give them pointer notes, and they tried. Did you guys know George Clinton at all? Or was it just like here, a random funkadelic song for you guys? No, we didn't know.

George Clinton wrote, I'll bet you. Actually, it's a Funkadelic song, too. That is the same. Thank you. You knew what I was thinking. Did you? All right, so you, I mean, you were prominent. Contrary to opinion, all the brothers had parts on records, including Marlon.

I didn't realize until maybe like maybe 10 years ago that that's him riffing on Mama got brand new thing. Don't say no. In my mind, I always always Jermaine riffing. And then I realized it once I listened closer, but was it your desire, Beanzo, you're the only, well, minus Marlin, you were the only one that didn't do any solo projects? Yeah, I'm, well, you know, they give me those parts that nobody wanted, you know, the low part. You know, I've always had the low voice in the family, and so like I said, we said nobody wanted like his chidlins, like. Yeah, well, you know, Temptations was our idolized group that we idolized.

Yeah, you were Melvin Franklin. Right. Exactly. So they looked at me like Melvin Franklin, and that's where you stay now. You low voice. So I never got that opportunity to sing. Like far now. But I didn't only sing low parts.

I would also double on other notes in the background. Then they put me in and do a little bass bottom part or whatever. And sometimes I'll just make up a part just so I can be on the record too. Okay, okay. So you did get to do that because I was sitting here wondering like, when did you guys get to touch the records? Because you said for the longest time, y'all just go in, you know your parts. At what point were you able to have a voice and say, what if we did this? How are you feeling watching your label mates?

Marvin Gay and Stevie Wonder especially go through such a creative, kind of blossoming that you guys weren't able to have like how did how did you feel in observing like when you're getting your copy of

inner visions and fulfilling this first finale it's like this is what we want to do well you know we always idolize people like Stevie you know

and wanted to do stuff like him And we actually asked to be produced by him. Well, you did Buttercup. Yeah, exactly. We did Buttercup. And you're supposed to keep you love from me. Mm-hmm. I didn't realize that was...

There's an original... It's on Let's Get Serious. Oh. I didn't know Buttercup was released. Yeah, about two years ago now. Yeah, finally, me. Yeah, once... Which I have a follow-up question in regards.

Oh, go ahead. When Motown was putting that out, I actually got invited over to their offices to hear a lot of the tracks that they were going through. And one of the tracks that they played us was, I think the title was something like Tito's theme. It was introduced to us as it was going to be a Tito's solo track. I've seen that real, but I never heard it. Yeah, actually, I got to hear it.

I got to hear it. I can't remember what it sounds like, but I do remember hearing it. So what do you remember about that? I don't remember anything. Tito's thing? Yeah, I don't even sound familiar. Maybe it was intended for him. Maybe that was the last song that I recorded.

before we left. So you're going to go make my question make sense now? Wait, I want to... Well, I'm getting there. I'm getting to the bridge. Now, my personal favorite period of the Jackson's is probably the period that all of you kind of like, shrug at, which is 74 Vegas variety show period predestiny.

So let's just say like Vegas to golden places. What were you per? personally feeling at that time as far as where the brothers were concerned. I mean, your brother, Michael, expressed that he felt like we were old hat and he didn't enjoy doing the variety show and all those things. And I'm pretty sure you heard it too because when you're in the business, you have what we call haters. And people used after, I think we had our first four number ones.

and then we started having songs that didn't make it to number one. And people used to come up and say, you guys are finished. You're not going to have no. To you guys? Oh, yeah. That gave us motivation, of course. Right. And we've always wanted to write music and produce some of our own stuff.

And that was our reason for moving on to Columbia Records at that time, epic, because they gave us that opportunity to, have a song or two on our albums, you know, like the Jackson's that was produced by Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff. You know, and they worked with us with the songs we had, you know, they inputted their involvement and made it happen. So that was a very exciting moment for the brothers to know that they were capable of writing songs that people would love and like and by. So you yourself, you didn't enjoy doing the variety show? It didn't bother me at all.

You know, I was one of the members that whatever it is, I'm going to be there, whether we're playing in a closet or playing in the arena, I'm going to be there. Is that because you just loved it so much? Well, I just wanted to be a team player. Okay. Yeah.

And also, I mean, like, I think it would be like today if someone got a reality show. Then it's like, all right, we got to get a reality show. So I'm certain for you guys, it was like, wait, the Osmond's have. a variety show and Shildon Yarnel has a variety show and there was a point where

last night in the Pips had a variety show so Brady Bunch had a variety show Exactly no I know you try to be funny But no I that's what I was watching There's a dope-ass drum break or Mr. Dr. So speaking of the variety Or not the right show but the Vegas

What was it like you know The Vegas residency started like two months after you guys Got back from Senegal So what was what was it like the difference. Why you guys get your history from? That's true. We're nerds.

I didn't know about Senegal. We were following you around a whole time. I didn't forgot everything. You know, it's been a long road. But we... Was that the first time you guys been to Africa? Yes, it was. We went to Senegal.

I want to hear all about it. What was it like? It was very exciting getting off the plane. And that's where Michael got that mama say, Mama Sab. Shut on. That's what they were chatting to us. When we first went to Africa, they were singing, playing the drums.

Mama say, Mama, say, Mama, say, Mama, Ma Maqqa. Mama say, Mama, say, Mama, say, Mama, say, I'maqqa. Wow. You know. What's it mean, Tita? I don't know. Okay. I'm going to say, take out that garbage.

That's funny. Well, also, are there any memories whatsoever about, because there's a infamous photo with you guys hanging with the Marley's in Jamaica. Uh-huh. Is there any memories of that period? Did you guys know that Bob Marley was royalty? Was it just like, a weird guy with hair wants to hang with us? Well, it smells funny.

And smells funny. Well, we did this show in Jamaica with the welders, and Bob Marley was there, of course, and the next day he invited us over to hang out, and we go to Bob Marley's compound, and the guy is hanging out in the tree. smoking the dubs and all this stuff. And it was really exciting.

And he took us through the whole compound, showed us where he worked, wrote this song, where he recorded and what have you. And I just remember that very, very much. It was a great period. And back then, Bob Marley was popular, but he wasn't as popular. Mythical figure as he was.

Yeah, last today. You know, he's everywhere now. So can I just ask real quick? Because you're hanging out with the Marley's butt From what we know, you guys were a very religious family. And, you know, of course, the legend of your father being strict. How did you navigate or how did, did he ever say any, give you disclaimers before y'all did this or that? He's probably there with them.

I know he was, but did he still say, you better not do this, you better, you know. Oh, yeah. Well, we knew. You know what I grew up. He's a black daddy. We knew. We knew what to do. So, so do I guess that you, did Jackson's never got a taste of the Bob Marley Gonja?

No, we did. Just ask that they smoke weed. Well, that was the second question. I want to know if they stripped to Bob Marley and then y'all just never got a taste of them? No, no. I never took. No.

Dude, I just started smoking weed and I'm like 49. I got a bong on me right now, you guys. It's on my bag. So wait, before I jump to Sony, before I jump to Epic, by this point, you're the Jackson 5, end quote. And I know that you were the first to get married didn't have kids or whatnot. So I'm assuming that you were domesticated.

But, well, I mean, take out the train. Wow. I don't know. I just meant, but the thing is, is that you're the Jackson Five. Right. So.

And there's a lot being thrown at you. What was, what was, how was it hanging in Hollywood? Like, I know you have a massive car or had a, I've seen like Fozy, you, T.K. Carter and everything, like, anti-cars were you.

your thing? Yes, still is. First of all, yeah, how many, I hate asking black questions. That's the one that I never want to do like, sorry, how many mansions do you have? And how many cars do you have? It's not really a black question. But I feel like you're the original Jay Leno. Like, what was it about anti-cars? And because anytime I've seen photos of you, it's like, you're in a garage with an anti-car. So, like, I just always love mechanics, you know, even when I was a young kit you know I built my own bicycle out of the junkyard and then did a go card and then got into cars I love especially the older stuff like in the 20s and that so it's always been a love of mine and how easy was it to get access to that back then I'm just saying now like if I buy a pair

of Jordans like my business manager is like hey man and I'm kind of cool now but still it's like Amen. But how many cars were you for Jordans just for sneakers? But how many cars did you collect back then? I had about maybe a dozen. Where did you store them? I have a warehouse that I put them in. Right now I have about 20 cars.

Can I have a car, Mr. Cito? And how many do you let your kids drop, well, your grown children? They don't drive any. They got their own money. They do, but they don't have those cars. No, they don't have cars. They can buy their own. Yeah.

He got some rare stuff going on. They got a few rare ones. They got some potion checks, I'm sure. But is it, like, are they cars just to collect and, I mean, there are things I collect that I would never utilize. I got a pair of Jordans I would never wear because they'll explode. But I'm just saying, yeah, that's the thing you got to know. Jordans will explode after 30 years.

I get a pleasure. I found out the hard way. So. I get a pleasure out of buying a car. I'll find a car for $700. Oh, and then you'll hook it up. I'll redo it. Take every nut and boat out of it and have it powder blasted.

You really are the original Jay Leno. And this is you yourself. Like, are you one of those people that can put together that car kit that I've seen men? I got it all that. The carburetorator? My hands have probably got grease under the fingernails now from some car I've worked at. So even to this day, like working on anti-examination. car is like your hobby.

Yeah, and I've been building lately. I've been building a lot of the surfer type 60s Volkswagen buses. Yeah. Yeah, I love those things. Yeah, I got about nine of those. Oh, but you can soup one up. That's like. You can put the sheets in them.

Put the seats back in. That's right. Well, I'm just saying, you know, January 20th is my birthday. I'm just saying. He just said he'll get none away. Yeah, so, well, never mind. Okay, I'll think of something. Okay, so going to Philadelphia. By the way, my elementary school was next to Philly International and Broad Street.

So once in a blue moon in second or third grade, I'd see you guys like going and going out. That's got to be freaky as a kid to see the Jackson's going. Well, I've seen actually what's weird is that you guys would even visit to say hi even after the fact, like a thing. like I think once before a destiny concert, you guys had stopped by 313 Broad Street. And I only knew because like every human being in my school was out in the streets chasing you guys. That's how we know the Jackson's are in proximity.

But in kind of the slow process that eventually led to the destiny album, leaving Philadelphia. First of all, how long were you guys physically? were you only there for like studio time or did you like live there no we were only there for studio time and the week it called in and we'd do an album in two weeks and do everything and move on okay so he would sleep there for two weeks oh yeah oh yeah so how long did it take for you guys to convince uh ron wisner and and and i guess freddy demand yeah freddy demand and walter yet in the

cough to like, okay, we got to do this on our own. Like, how long did it? Well, we went to Epic Records saying that we want to write some music and produce some of our songs. And what had happened, we had a couple of songs on the earlier albums, the Coin Place album and the Jackson's album. And they did very well. And they gave us the Green Light to do our next album, which was Destiny. and we wrote all the songs. So when you guys were doing the process, what was the division of labor for that album? Because now you guys have to answer it to yourself.

So it's like, did you have a family meeting? Well, I think we already had some songs. Maybe Jackie had a song or two. I know I had a couple of songs, and Michael had some stuff, but we get together and write the lyrics and help each other out on the song and write about situations,

whether it was my mother and her politeness or whatever. And that's pretty much how it came out. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I caught that. I caught that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. See, all right, all right. All right. All right.

Without getting personal pan pizza. Okay. I often felt I always wanted to know what did you guys feel about the lyrics of destiny? Because I personally felt that was kind of Michael's passive-aggressive way of saying, guys, I want to do stuff on my own, and I don't know how to tell you guys.

Because to look at the lyrical content, I felt that that was his, of all the I want to break free themes that he's ever had in his career, that that was the most explicit direct but kind of underhanded. I mean, Destiny goes there, things I do for you, goes there,

push me away, goes there, even though it's disguised as a love song, but especially that's what you get for being polite, which, I mean, was there ever a moment where you guys were just chilling one day and was like, listen, hey, wait a minute, like, was it, but you said that was about your moms?

Yes, yes. Because Yikes. And things I do for you. Yes, yes. Yes. We had that. I'm going to go read those lyrics here.

Please, I mean, as much as you can reveal. I was doing as y'all was talking. Okay. Well, whoa, but,

but, but, since you kind of open that rabbit hole, since you kind of open that rabbit hole and we're black, can I assume

that since you, I don't know any successful black person that doesn't go through survivors' guilt. Do you understand what Survivors Guild is? As far as...

If someone's successful, then there's kind of the unspoken, obligatory need to take people with you. And I know that there's friends and family and cousin Ray Ray and the cat you went to school with and let me hold a little something. And our phone bill's cutting all. Our phone's getting cut off next week

da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, how are you able to Matrix Dodge or avoid, you know, let me hold something real quick. Like, yo, man, can you help? Or, like, am I assuming that if these songs are factual in terms of people using and that sort of thing, how are you able to avoid, or how easy are you with saying the word,

No. You know. How easy? How easy? In 1978, how easy is it to say the word no? Like, again, like, hey, we're down on luck. Da-da-da-da. Has school tuition next week.

Yo, can y'all help out? Yeah, da-da-da-da. Like, I just, I know no successful black person that manages to avoid. And you're the Jackson's, which in everyone's mind in the America's like family royalty. So how hard is it to avoid hangar-ons or people that ask, ask, ask, ask, take, take, take? That still happens today. You know, that comes with the territory as, you know, you're going to meet people that's hanging with you just to meet another brother.

I don't mean strangers, though. People that you know. People that you know. Disting cousins. I know y'all got a large-ass family. So they haven't gotten the clue yet. Y'all been doing this for 50 years and the same people still asking? No, they're still the Jackson's.

No, I'm saying the same people are still asking. That's what I'm saying. No, you meet new people that still ask. But, yeah, you... Can I have a car? Shut up, Steve. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to, you know, I try to avoid gotcha journalism or whatever.

But I know that it has to... has to be awkward being a powerful family that, you know, you guys have a hard time just managing and navigating your own thing without the eye roll of, oh, man, this is like, so is it that you change your phone numbers a lot? We did that too. Or you're just on tour and, you know. We did that too. Well, they didn't have cell phones back then, so you're lucky.

But we had a lot of protection from, uh, you know. security and those type of things. People look after, especially the people of Motown, you know, even when we would go on the road or whatever. And if the other Motown people around, they would be like our parents, you know. They would give us advice, don't touch drugs, don't do this, do that. So we were schooled by the Motown staff and the artists. Is it easy to still go to family reunions or your high school? or hang with friends?

Like, are you still friends with people you were friends with 40 years ago? I'm friends with friends that I had from Gary, Indiana. Still? Oh, yeah. Good. That's a blessing. That's a miracle.

That's Tito. Is everybody friends with people from Gary? Because I feel like we expect this from Tito for some reason. We don't know you, but we just feel like you still, I don't know. Yeah, I'm like that's my old buddies. Yeah, see, I feel like that's a Tito. But I lost a lot of people in my life, a bunch of people. I just lost one of my high school friends a couple of weeks ago.

We're getting on. I'm sorry to hear that, man. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only does. deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast.

I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football. leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the

star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job.

There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Another important element of your development as an entertainer is the live show presentation.

B. Jackson's live show presentation. So in your mind, with theatrics now entering the realm, like, Earth, One and Fire, with their theatrics and levitating, and Isley Brothers and Smoke Machines and Parliament Funkadelic, their theatrics. Were you seeing shows then? And was it like, yo, you got to see blah, blah, blah, blah. Like what concerts?

Yeah, it was a period when, like you said, you know, Earth Went and Fire, they always had the great show or some type of magic allusions or whatever. And we felt that's where it's going. We got to do something too similar. you know, to keep the concerts exciting to make people want to come see you. And that's what it was like back then. You know, we're playing arenas, so we're holding 20,000 people.

You know, how you're going to get all these people in this arena. And you had to have a show that offered more than just the music. It had to be eye candy as well. So what was that initial pitch like? Like, okay, we're all going to get in this box. And then it's going to be, like, pitch dark, and then it's going to explain. explode and then we're going to come out with new outfits like you have people in the business that have these creative ideas that come up with it props and things of that nature

whatever you can imagine they'll try to make it happen but this was new at the time so it's I mean now it's nothing to you know for you to say all right Kanye West we were going to levitate you on a stage throughout the stadium but back then you guys were definitely like I thought my cousins were lying they're like yeah and then make a in the box and exploded. And I thought, you're just lying, Marky.

Like, I didn't believe it. And so I saw my own Jackson show. I was like, oh, they really are exploding. So even at, even in the,

the initial days of, of those tours, like, there wasn't a fear like, hey, man, like, there's too much, like with the explosions

and all that stuff. No, no. It was exciting. You know, the only thing that was, uh, was the commercial we did, the Pepsi commercial. Have you seen that final tape?

I finally saw it like two, so it came online like two years ago. I didn't really, have you seen it? Do you know what's crazy in 2019 or 2020 whenever they listen to this? It's people out there's a whole generation who do not know what you're talking about. Okay, so there was a Pepsi commercial shot in which said explosions that I was speaking of. Sparks went into Michael's hair And then Was it you that put your jacket on top of his head?

No, he called out my name I was on the other side of stage He called out my name for help But I was too far away I think it was one of the prop men Who thought that quickly And like two or three years ago They finally put the actual

With his hair on fire And I didn't realize it was that serious Like it was I'm like, did you all tear up? It was five thousand. Seven seconds of that and it would have been a whole new story, yo. Like, what was, well, of course, obviously what was the feeling of that like? It hurt us very much.

You know, we knew he was hurting and he was, had these serious burns to his scalp and that whole thing. And from that point, I felt that was the beginning of a lot of problems for him. Yeah, he needed, he stayed in pain a long time. I just never told us or, yeah. But you guys knew that he was in pain. Oh, yeah, yeah. Tito, I'm circling back on that's what you get. These lyrics, I'm sorry, y'all.

I just want, Mama Catherine, what, did she have bigger things? What did she want? I know she had a lot, she had nine children, but was there more she had wanted in her life? Like, what did you think she was kind of, it feels like you're missing out on? Or getting, you know. Well, you know, I may have twisted that.

That song, things I do for you is my mom. Okay. That's what you get polite. That's Johnny Jackson. Thank God. That's Johnny Jackson. Okay, okay. The drummer.

Yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, okay, that's better. Thank you. Come on, man. Why are you chopping these gems and then be it on ambiguous? was

I was like, now I got to go home and figure this ruby scoob out. That's crazy. Wow. So with the victory tour leading up to it and

how mammoth it was, what were, I mean, you know, again, one person's heaven could be another person's hell. But to be on the end side of what was then the biggest grand tour of all time like what are your memories of the victory tour was it sort of like hey it's fun or was it like it's getting to be too much or no it was never too much because uh being a black

band and probably the first black band to do those type of venues it was a pleasure to represent and do those we would go into a city like New York or wherever and we'd do three shows at the

stadium and sell them out and that was never heard of for black bands to do that you know so we felt we were you know making a name for ourselves creating history making landmark

I'm not to say I gotta ask about we can change the world yes very very, very, okay, speaking of Bob Marley, I always felt that that was your kind of world music. Exactly. I love reggae. Right. Even on my Tito Times album, I have a reggae song that I just adore.

Yeah. So, yeah, I was going to say, was that your inspiration to sort of do like a world music? Yes, yes, yes. It's the song's about changing the world. You got a lot of different styles in you because I was listening to one song and I was like, you got the country in you. Yeah, I do country stuff, too. You know, we started out singing.

Yeah, I was like, see, Cottonfields. Yeah, exactly. When I heard that, I was like, yo, what do they know about that? But, yeah. You know, but my music is blues. I love blues. Who do you consider, like, God, especially to be around in Chicago those times, were you able to see these legends?

No. Really? No. So you guys never played blues clubs and- We play blues clubs, but we did. And Albert and... Now, I never saw Albert King or any of those guys play. I would hear him on record.

Albert Collins, Albert King, Jimmy Reed, and B.B. King, as such. Who's your favorite blues guitarist player? As far as tone and... B.B. King and Albert Collins. Really? Love them. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. I have an article here from Right on Magazine, October 1971.

You also mentioned Jimmy Hendrix was one of your favorites. Yeah, Jimmy. Really? What were your thoughts on Ernie Isley? And as far as the direction that the Isleys took with? Oh, he's dope. Ernie's dope on the guitar. Yeah, I love his tone.

Okay. So I know that the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree and that your sons... 13. Yeah, remiss. Not to mention your sons also have a, you know, successful singing career as well. were you a little skeptical in knowing what you know what the business is were you skeptical in sort of encouraging them to

well like you said knowing the show business and the ups and downs of the business I want they were very good athletes they played a lot of baseball my middle side was ranked number five in the state for baseball pitching and he was Barry Bond was very looking at him and wanted him to go to the Giants training camp and trained with him and at the time he was recording his first album with the brothers his brothers and they they hung up the gloves and wanted to pursue songs really and I felt I used to tell them I say hey you can do them both you know when the baseball season ain't happening get under the the microphone. You can do both things.

Was this TJ or Terrell? Terrell. Oh, Terrell. I'm sorry. Yeah, but TJ was just as brilliant as an athlete as well. Wow, okay. So they wanted to pursue sports for a second? Well, they didn't exercise that. They wanted to be entertainers because of me and their uncles, of course. How hard is it to keep them grounded and humble when their family are, superheroes. They're pretty easy.

When did they realize like, oh shit, like, okay, this isn't normal? That's a good question. I don't have the answer for you, but they always loved the business and wanted to be a part of it. You know, like they had gone to a Jackson concert when they was super young and they looking at the outfits picking off the rhyme songs and excited and then come home and grab brones and mops and put on the record. And be the Jackson.

Yeah, and I take the record. Yeah, no. Y'all trying to be like us. Don't touch my guitar. Did they have a double-toucher my guitar moment? No, no, no, they didn't have that. Oh, you told you kids. I told them, I told them, if you're going to do this, you're going to do this.

We're not faking it and all that. We're really playing the instruments and really singing. I say, if you really want to do it, I'll let you use my instruments. You can go in the studio and mess around, get familiar with things. And they did. Then they showed interest. I got them some lessons. They learned a few things here and there.

And I'd start putting them under the microphone in the studio. Are there any second generation Jackson's that are just like doctor, lawyer? Yeah, yeah. We have accountants and kids. Our accountants and lawyers and stuff like that. He don't want his kids and show business. That's even more important. important.

Yeah. Like, let's have something behind the camera too. Somebody got to count the money that you can trust. Yeah. Like. I see that. Okay. So for your, what, why did it take you so long to finally, like, really develop?

Well, I don't think it took you that long because long after the, the group had left Epic. I've seen you a few times, like, you've had your blues review at various clubs. I've seen it a few times. So during that period, late 90s, mid-90s or whatever, like, what made you decide to like sort of scratch that blues itch that you had? Well, it's still there. You know, it never goes away as part of me, you know, but most of my fans aren't blues.

So I figured if I'm going to... So they still come to the show, like, waiting for you to shovel the funk and... Oh, yeah, that whole thing. Absolutely. And I just figured I'd need to do something to satisfy their ears. You know, so I decided my first album is going to be for them. You know, and I just pretty much finished a blues album that I'm not ready to release because I'm going to do a Tito time too.

Nice. And maybe third album would be a blues record. I just did a recording with George Benson. And we did. We redid it. Rock Me Baby. George McCrace. I'm sorry?

Oh, wait. Rock me baby all night long, the Bebe King? Exactly. Oh, okay. Well, there's a bunch of Rock Me Baby's baby. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, and we have Bibi's daughter

on the record as well. Does she play, or is she? She's a singer. She sounds fabulous, too. Do you ever just go out and surprise people and just go to it like a jam session? I mean, you just... I haven't done that too much in my life.

I've done it before, but not too much. We got to get Tito in some jam sessions. Yeah, we welcome that. Well, if the roots. Do some jam sessions. Exactly. That's my point. Were you surprised at the reception of Tito time?

And not surprised at the positive response, but, you know, I mean, it's always a risk out there to. I've always been very quiet, like I said, and never spoke out. never never let my uh you know pants down or whatever you however you want to put it and uh hair but pants is good too yeah oh oh it's hair but i take the pants well i got there's hair when i let my pants down too but anyhow but um but anyhow um i think the fans accepted it very well so i thank them for that how often how do you guys divide your time now with touring and doing like festivals all over the world and downtime. Well, people don't understand is that people always say to me, you know,

this was the last time you've seen your brother. I'll say, well, it's been about two weeks, three weeks. Two weeks, three weeks? I'll say, yeah. Are you tired of people asking like when you're alone, like, where's the, you know, like you're attached at the hip? They want you to be. Exactly.

Every day. They still want us to be at. Jackson Five, you know. But that you've always. been with them all your life in two, three weeks is great. And if I see my brothers, you know, I might see them every day for a month on the road, you know. When I'm not on the road, I want to get away and enjoy my life a little bit personally. Well, I see how the schedule is now.

And you guys are, you know, when it's festival time for Europe and all those other countries, I mean, you guys are pretty much together. So I saw you guys when you first started touring, like, you know. what was it, 2010, 2011. And compared to what it is now, some eight, nine years later, where you guys are like a full-fledged operating machine, how do you guys divide that time? Because I know that, I know that that that could be tiresome.

I'm one of those people. And a pain. I don't want to see the schedule. You know, I don't want to know what I have to do. I'm just going to do. Do it. Yeah. And you see the schedule.

It's easier that way. See, much easier. I need to know how you prepare because I was, I told the guys once I was randomly on a Jackson's tour in London about three so years ago. And you guys still move your bodies like you did 50 years ago. And there are like, how many, y'all do like 12 songs at least. How do you prepare physically for something like that? It's called not taking drugs or not.

drinking and getting your sleep and your rest. There you go. Because Marlon, Marlin still, oh my God. Yeah, seriously. Not a stretch, not a warm up, not no yoga, not a, not a vegan, not a, not a keto, not a nothing, just. Well, Marlin, he don't eat any red meat, but he's healthy. You know, we have to just do it.

That's all we do. Just do it. Not even a stretch or a warm up. Or Marlon stretches, of course. they stretch. I don't do anything. I look at them. I turn my guitar.

And when did you fall in love with the derby? I've been wearing this thing for 25 years, maybe. Yeah. Back in the day when my kids were rolling around the U.K. I went into the hattery, and I discovered bowlers. That's what they're called. Was I wrong in calling it a derby? No, it's a derby, too.

Okay. So you were traveling with them in the very early stages of 3-T? Yes. Were they teenagers then? Yes, they were. Okay, so I guess, yeah, you have to share with them. I think 15, 16, and something like that in that age group, young teenagers. I see.

So what is your, well, besides the Tito Tee time, what you're contemplating, what's your, what is your future? What do you? Well, my future is to continue doing my solo thing and enjoy it, coursework with the brothers. I like to do a blues album and do that whole thing. And that's basically all I'm looking for is just doing my music. I'm a musician, a singer, so I want to have complete success in that area. I think you'll have success in that area. I mean, you're Jackson.

For God's sakes. You're a Jackson. Any other van request, Steve? What? No, no. Okay. No, he's going to give me the car, I'm sure. I don't need to request it again, do I?

I don't know. What's the car you've had the longest of your cars? I have a 1930 cabaret, model A Ford that I adore. That's your favorite? It's not my favorite. It's the one I had the longest. I've had that. Which one's your favorite that you have?

I have a 1948 Lincoln convertible that I adore. Wow. Can you just make me feel normal? Do you just have a regular, like, Corolla Yeah, a prism or, like, just to go to corner store to get toilet papers. He go to Gelson's, he only go to Gelson. What's it Gelson? That's the, the Ritzie grocery store.

How do you know about Gelsen? Because I live in L.A. now, so I just. Oh, okay. I see you, Tito. Yeah, okay. I feel you. Well, what is your car? What's your store car?

You're running around and do Aaron's car? Or do you have to stunt every time? I, I, no, I actually, I go on, in. Hark Nito, I have a few cars I like. I don't feel bad then. I drive a Fiat 500. Wow. And I drive a 1997 Dodge Ram pickup truck.

Diesel. Oh, that's a download under radar car. Yeah. I still consider it as Stunton. I was waiting for you to say like I have a Sion or something. Like he does. Okay. That's what that's what Quest keeps Tito. He keeps cyan and a key on deck just in case.

Well, what? My One fan chases me down the street. They saw the commercial. No, no, no. Before I let you go, can you just tell one random, is there just a random Jackson story? There's a few. That you can tell. Well, when we were young back in the day and everybody know what Jermain's like.

Better yet, just give me your, give me your Jermaine Stewart. Yes. We used to have after the show, you know, the girls were crazy on the stage, chase us off stage and come to the hotel. We have five, six hundred girls running through the hotels, trying to get up the stairs, up the elevators,

put security on the stairwells and at the elevators and everywhere. Yeah, like, yeah. Somehow, Jermaine got somebody through. What? He told me. I said our aunties were wild back in the day. Yes. Our aunties.

Older sisters. But anyhow. Anyhow, Jermaine and Michael shared rooms. And he told Michael, because he stutters a little. He don't do this when he sing, but when he talks, he stutters a little. Michael, I got a girl coming over.

So when she come here, I want you to hide. So I guess the girl knocks on the door. Okay, Michael, hi, hi, Mike, Mike hi's under the bed. Right. So the young lady walks in the room and Germainton enjoying her. And all of a sudden she goes, wait a minute, I feel a third hand. Thank you very much, Tina Jackson. Ladies and gentlemen

Welcome here anytime Ladies and gentlemen On behalf of Questlove Supreme Boss Bill Junebug Sirken Steve It's Laia Shout out to Fonticlo And unpaid Bill

Thank you very much Mr. Jackson Thank you Thank you for ever Wait, we didn't ask one question Why did you never get the curl Why never get who Why did you never get the curl?

The curl In the hair Oh, I'm me I don't want that Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. This is Pust Love Supreme. We will see you on the next go-round. Check out later.

For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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