The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Usher

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

The multi-talented Usher talks about the deep importance of knowing where you come from, the terror he felt when he lost his voice and how he found success despite setbacks and disappointments. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to QLS Classic episode 24 with Ursh. May 2017. He's one of the brightest stars of the post-M-J generation, and we get to chop it up with Usher about his life growing up in the spotlight, not to mention the pressures of keeping that light bright.

We get confessional about doing it his way. We hope you enjoy. Usher, QLS Classic. Thank you. Suprema. Subrima Roll call. Supremma Road. S-T.

Yeah. L-O-V-E. A. Supreme. Name. I got so many tricks. Yeah. Should have won that Oscar.

Yeah. For in the mix. Roll call. Supreme. Supreme. Supreme. Supreme. Supreme.

My name is Sugar. Yeah. Sugar Steve. Yeah. This is my confession. Yeah. I love weed. Roe con.

We already do that, Steve. Supreme. Supreme. Supreme. Roca. Supreme. So, Sup.

Suprima. Supreme. Ro. This is Boss Bill. Yeah. Back to have some fun. Yeah. Been away for a while.

Yeah. Had to get the guns. Roll call. Suprima. Supreme. Proma. Roca. Plus one.

How you want to throw up? Supreme. Role call. I'm unpaid bill. Yeah. So what's the deal? Yeah. Been watching the West Wing.

Yeah. Pretending it's real. Ro call. Suprema. Suprema. Suprema. Ro call. Suprema.

Supra, Supraima roll call Islaa Yeah I'm already caught up Yeah My boo was usher Yeah I don't give a fuck

Roll call Hey Supraima Suprara Roll call Okay Suprema Yeah

My name is Urshabaver Yeah I'm here with team Supreme Yeah Uh What y'all doing in here?

Yeah Man I don't know What the hell is Oh Yeah Suprema roll call Suprema Subrauma roll call

Suprema Suprema Suprema roll call Suprema Suprema roll call That was cool I was cool You survived

Yes we made it We did it That's a rare radio I don't know about you be I don't know I'll admit that Usher is the first guess of

of course love Supreme to actually have known of the theme before it was unleashed. You know, for those that are wondering about the themes, we never tell our guests. Yeah. What the theme is. Like, we just, you know, you know, we're trying to think of some funny shit to say. The whole time, I wrote down a whole bunch of shit that I didn't use, though. Like, what we all? You were writing drafts?

No, I was just writing words. Like, maybe if I just have a few catch words, it'll just come to me somehow, some way. Some of the best moments of Questlove Supreme is when we, we're just writing. mess up. Well, in case you haven't guessed, ladies and gentlemen, in the ongoing tradition of adding members to the roots as if there's

not enough members already, I think Usher is going to be probably member number 17. Were they all payroll? When we still, yes. From here on out, I want residuals on everything.

in line with the rest of the Roos, son. No, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome a friend of the show, friend of the roots, friend of music. Of music, yeah, I was it, of music? Yeah, of music. Usher, aloysious, Raymond the fourth. What's your middle name? Aloysius?

I don't know. I mean, you know. I bet you best it. They're killing all my Cosby dreams, but I don't know. like Theo's middle name Aloysius Huxdibald. Really? You didn't know that was Theo's

What's the symbolic meaning or word of that wording? I don't know. It just means that you put a lot of thought into the middle name. If you name your child. That's what I mean. I'm saying it could be like,

it could be like attached somewhere to like the family roots or something. Well, yeah, if I don't know the person. I'm just saying that you, I mean, first of all, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome us or Raymond. We got right into it. So you said it just as is I don't have a middle name.

For real? No, I don't have a middle name. Usher Raymond the 4th. I'm not new. How many black people do you know? Yeah, you go. There you go. Let's talk about it.

Yeah. That means your whole lineage escaped hell to make enough. No, I'm dead. No, you're serious. I know. I know. Yeah, joking, but serious.

And your son is five, right? He's the fifth. And who was the first usher? What did he do? Who's usher the first? I mean, he worked in a theater, I guess. Oh, there were theaters back then? In my mind, I'm like, so.

I'm just saying we were all We obviously Slavery No, we all were obviously giving names by our slave owners So, you know Or either within the trade Of what it is

That was significant In that time So I think that maybe It had something to do with You know, being a server Or something I don't know Oh snap

I am so late on that joke You told that was real Wow I don't even have a sound effect So wait a minute So my entire career You thought It was a joke

Like my name really wasn't usher. No, no, no. I knew Usher was your name, but I didn't think about Usher being a given name and it really being like maybe it was somebody who was the Usher at church from back in the day. Or we just making that all up. I don't know if they were having church back then.

You know what I'm saying? No, they're using church to control. Yeah, that's how we found Jesus. Yeah. Absolutely. So even though you're freestyling this, I would almost lean towards believing. That's probably how.

There's some truth to it. I don't know the search of. Yeah. But I become curious within the last two years. You know what I did? I did like... How about to say you did the... I did the 23 and me and also, too,

have been doing a lot of other research. You did that? Yeah. Well, not necessarily with, you know... Henry Gates. But the point is just to understand where I come from. So what are you? I'm West African.

We all are. Isn't that true? Yeah. I mean, the research that comes back on every person that I've ever asked, Or either you haven't chosen to look, have you? I have not. Not yet. From the South.

Well, that's good. Because that gives you an opportunity to do something. I did the initial. I'm scared of giving DNA. Like that just feels like I feel like I'm giving DNA and like a paternity suit is coming next. So I'm kind of fucked up. But I have looked at it. I'm considering.

You got some kids on the books. Did you give DNA to make money many years ago at some point? Did I give DNA? Oh, I was plasma. That was plasma. That's also DNA though, just for the record. I gave plasma. Yeah, shit was real.

It was a rough time. But I got it back. You know, I got my blood. You got the TV back from Renicenter. Shit was real. Bumpin' Nush's first album on my way to the clinic. Well, yeah, I did that test, and I found out, or they told me that both of my parents were from Sierra Leone. Oh, wow.

But I'm going to do Skip Gates as one. he had a show on PBS. Is that what his friends call him? Henry Lewis. Henry Skip. Wow. Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

Skit late. Yeah. The point is for us to just kind of at least have some track. I mean, none of us are, you know, pure blood from Africa. There were a lot of different places that kind of were mentioned in my pie chart. Because there's like a pie chart that they give you and you kind of look. And then you can determine like where you want to go from there with it. Like say, you decide.

you want to go back to that village. What's the truth? What is, what truth will you find there? Will you find the village that you were originally from? A lot of those places, a lot of the places that we would go, they've now adopted the idea of being modernized and being colonized. So, so English is now applied. The true tongue of the place is not there. So I'm, if anything, I'm hoping that I'll go back there and there'll be some facial features that I could see of, you know, potential people. But for the most part, they also, too, have been mixed so many times that they're not It's been cut down. Right, it's been cut.

Well, I strongly recommend that you do skips thing. You need to cut it. Oh, God. No, I, I, I, It's way too wide. You need to cut it. I strongly recommend that you contact Henry Lewis Gates because, like, the level, the thorough level of research they do,

you know. I'm going to, like, for those they don't know, like, I guess for four or five seasons, they were doing like all the black celebrities because, of course, you know, you're going to get a glorious story out of that. But then when they did the Afflex, once they started doing white people, Henry said that we're going to have to tell you the truth of, slave master. Yes, yes. Yeah, and it was just that Ben Afflex and Casey Afflex family, they came from a lot of,

lineage of like some probably the meanest slave owners on record they ran candy land for real and the real candy land you know it was like you know they didn't want that information getting out and then controversy happened so skip just just like well i'm canceling the show then if you guys are going to censor me and you know PBS didn't want to broadcast that episode now now it's back let's talk about the fact that technology has now allowed us to investigate our own lineage and that's good You know what I'm saying? It's awesome. Because schools back when I was in high school or middle school or elementary school,

we were immigrants in the books. You know what I'm saying? Still are in some. It's that. Still are in a time. But I'm saying like the gross perpetuation of what is going on in this country has just continued to just cycle. And to the point where it's like you can't even really get an education about who you are.

You can't, who's going to talk to you? Or we should talk about it doing Black History Month. Well, why the fuck should you? we relegate our entire history to a fucking month? You serious? Like, how about we take the time to get the information ourselves or either at least do some investigation along the lines of even just giving people an idea of what their lineage is? Who knows?

It might or might not be true, but the point is it's information. And I'm happy. How did you feel when you found out? I'm happy that somebody decided to do that. But why is it that we, as black people, didn't come together and figure the shit out by ourselves. Because I mean. And say, listen, let's put, let's put this money together to begin, like, let's do a

collective, right? We will go around, you'll go to any motherfucking church in the world and there's a collection plate there to keep that establishment going. But we don't figure out a fund for ourselves to begin to even understand our lineages and begin to like build ourselves up, build our steam up. That's why I asked you, how did you feel when you got the information back of who you were? I felt great.

I felt great enough to know. Was there a release like, oh, I came from somewhere? Because I don't think people understand the fact That's what I was about to say I don't think people I was over on the real it is Yeah I was overwhelmed with emotion Because I grew up in a time period

Where if you called me African African booty scratcher That was like yeah You could just say that In the early 70s when you called somebody African like on the playground I got to think hip hop though Because hip hop made me appreciate Africa

That's because you were born What year were you born? I was born 78 so in the 80s See that five year yet. I was born in 71. The medallion made a difference. Yeah, that medallion made a different.

See, me being born in 71 and being of age at 9 in like 80, 81, that's how a shame we were to even be called that because, but, you know, you, you became of age at eight or nine in 85, 86, 87. Well, by that they were manipulating your mind to celebrate everything but who you were. Right. But I'm just saying that those seven years between. you and I of the 70s. That's a generation different of thinking.

Whereas, you know, you become of age when public enemy is like. But did you travel to Africa when you were that age? No. Did you see pictures of Africa when you were at age? We did, but they were like the poverty streets. I thought of we all the world. That's what the way.

So my point is, you were being manipulated. You know this. I'm just, I ain't telling you nothing. It's rhetorical. But I'm just saying, like, to be perfectly honest with you, it was hip hop that basically decided to use that as a form and it spoke to us. Was it relevant enough to be like, all right, we're going to lift up from this and continue to keep it going? No, y'all, they were courageous as hell to even have the conversation.

Now, what happened after that was, okay, we can continue to talk about Africa and talk about the things that are going to lift us up and talk about being connected as a community. Then it was drugs. Then it was the opulence of drugs. then it was the disconnect from anything that had anything to do with being smart at all. So now here we are. And then some of our artists that came from that era, like the whole,

even with the whole collective of Dayline and everybody else, like people got older. They got into making money and brands and things like that too. As we have so clearly noticed within our generation that we don't live long enough in order to celebrate what we started fighting for. Most of the people who were advocating before, they got official jobs. So now they're inside. They got government jobs.

You know what I'm saying? D.C. and they're trying to survive. And then whatever the hell they got, they're trying to hold on to. So it's like they can't go too deep. And then they realize, oh, man, this is all. I become the thing that I was what's fighting. This is a trap. Which is the, not for nothing, but that was the argument with some of the public in the

Grammys versus Golden Globes because it was like, oh, we showy is quiet. We got to protect our brand. But meanwhile, at the other one, it was like, ah, but I'm just, it's just interesting in that way. Very interesting. Protecting it. If you want to talk about that. I mean, I'm just, if you want to talk about it.

I don't mind. Being as though, you're, you're an Atlanta native. Okay, as we get further into your story, I'm curious as to how your current mind state, your evolution, correlates with the culture that Atlanta has now, as far as hip-hop culture is concerned. But, okay, great.

Now I'm going to sound like the, cliche. But I want to start back in the beginning. Let's go back. You're going to take you way back. So were you born? Let's get back to the hits. Were you? No, no, no, no. No, no. We go deep.

So you were born in Atlanta, Georgia? I was born in Dallas, Texas. Really? I was born in Dallas, Texas. Fort Worth, yes, Fort Worth, Texas. It was Dallas, Dallas. Texas's own usher, Ream, and the 4th. Yeah. How long did you live in Dallas?

A year. It don't count. I mean, that's why I love. A lot of people were born in France and then they actually went to your military brats. But my father and my mother, they left Chattanooga, Tennessee, which is where I would ultimately end up. And that's where I was actually from. But my mother and father went to Dallas, Texas to really start a new life.

He played basketball. She, you know, she was, she played basketball as well, but she was an intelligent woman. Your mom played ball? Yeah, my mother played basketball, yeah. I mean in a college way, like, oh, I'm not a play ball. Neither of them made it to college because they had me. Okay. So that kind of was the root awakening for both of them.

High school? High school. For them, okay. My father would have went on to have played basketball. He was an incredible basketball player. Noteworthy to this day. Like, everybody still remember Erki. That was his name.

But they moved to Dallas. They had me. relationship was obviously not able to survive and they broke up they broke up she brought me back to Chattanooga Tennessee and that's where I'm from

Okay Were any of them Musically inclined or was just a matter of just playing you A whole bunch of stuff in the house I think my mother is the person Who's most responsible for introducing me to music

But after I met my father I heard him And I realized he had a voice. He was a man of conviction, but not, you couldn't get his shit together. You know what I'm saying? He spent most of my childhood high and a substance abuser. And he never was around, never, anything, never, no connection, nothing. Until I think I was like maybe 13 to 14 years old, did I really make a connection with him where I could see him in a positive, like he was a pastor for like that time, that summer? And then he disappeared again.

but um which is most which is the case of that that's another story about we're talking about history we're talking about Africa and the idea what that was but also two fathers of that time like most of the people my peers that I talked to they felt you know some of the same reality and then for those who didn't you know they became kind of the reference like I was one of those kids who hung out with my friends to see how you know that his relationship was with his father as an idea what it was supposed to be yeah yeah yeah or either it was a Cosby show or something like that or First Prince of Bel Air.

It kind of echoed. So who was your father figure, at least between like up to 10, who was the guy you could talk to you about? My grandfather, I had a lot of uncles. So my uncle Darrell, my uncle Bruce, my uncle Gary, he lived in D.C. I didn't really talk to him that much. These are your mother's siblings?

He's in my mother's brothers. Okay. But Bruce, Darrell, O'Neill, I never met my grandfather, which I felt was, you know, looking at pictures in him, you knew, his name was John Henry. That's a hard black name. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but, but, um, yeah, man, I, you know, I didn't really, I ain't, I have a reference. I just kind of looked around and it was a collective of people that kind of just invested into me because they realized I didn't have a dad either. And, I mean, I turned out pretty much, you know, I write, but, You know, it wasn't like I was pulling from the source. I was actually pulling from the lack thereof. So not having a dad made it like a task for me to, you know, know, to be in my child's life, to be there for them to understand who they are.

And I'm going to wrap this around just so you understand. Part of the reason, one of the reasons why 23 and me was so important is there was a lot of things that were kind of like egging me on, like about not knowing who I was and not, and us not knowing. And, you know, being introduced when I went overseas to different, you know, types of spirituality, Yoruba, Centauria, and all these other things that I just saw. It was just around. I was like, man, it's crazy. All these people who migrated from Africa to these neighboring islands, they preserved the idea

of what our original spirituality was or our connection to spirituality was. So I went to school and they wanted to do a lineage. Like they wanted our kids to Offer something of a from a place that they were from Oh So you have kids who were from Italy You have kids who were from all these you know What school was this?

This is a school in Atlanta I don't want to just I don't want to disclose it Did they not know that's so interesting like they No they no but they but okay So this is not a public school It's a private school and it's for all the right Right and When I asked my son

When he was from he said I'm from Atlanta. I'm from Georgia. I'm like, actually, so you're not from Georgia. Yeah, I am. I'm from Africa. Now, I ain't from Africa.

And that was the beginning. And it was like, you know what? This matters. This matters. And I got to go ahead and go through with this. And I had been talking about it. And I went ahead.

They did the swab and went through the whole process of giving him. And that was just like the, I got to get this right. So what's his mentality now? Does he have a deeper understanding? How old is he now? He has an age. He has a deeper understanding. And even though he does, we actually, you know, we put to this, the following year, because they have it every year, we put together his thing.

And that was all these things that, you know, they made from West Africa or Mali, which is where we kind of claim. But he still wanted to bring macaroni and cheese to school. Well, that's part of it, though. That's the African American American American Republic. And by the way, he showed it to me. He said, no, this is actually something that was made there. I was like, all right, okay, cool. All right. Teaching you.

Back in church. That's dope. So at what point are you finding your voice, your actual singing voice? Like, were you raised in the church or was it? It was my mother. My mother, she was a, you know, she was a youth director of her choir in church. So outside of listening to what was on the radio and, you know, just the same way as, you know, y'all had ciphers in hip hop or either had bands and shit like that, right? We had Seifers 2 was singing.

So if you came to school and you couldn't sing like what was on the radio, then you was kind of whack, you know what I'm saying? So I would listen to the radio and I listened to how people were singing and what that reaction was. And then, you know, I was listening to my mother preparing her, you know, whatever she had to do to teach her students. And I asked, I said, you know, can I be in your choir? She was like, you can be in my choir, but if you act up, I'm going to kick you out.

So don't think that I'm going to give you any, like, I'm gonna lay off you just because, you know, you my son. Of course, I got kicked out of the choir about two or three times, but, you know, she let me do my solo. You know what I mean? Every so often. One question, oh, you talk about just singing. A question, your first vocal coach.

Yeah. Apparently she had breakdown like certain songs and you have to learn the harmonies and it was like really advanced stuff. Talk about that. All right, so she made me listen to Take Six. Holy shit. And she would say...

How old are you at this point? I'm about... Well, the first take six record came out. That was 86. It's 88. 88, yeah. So I'm 14. I'm 14.

And I mean, I didn't have a vocal coach as an artist until I was signed, right? That's when it really started. But before, I didn't really need one. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I don't think I was perfect, but singing all the time, repetition basically began to prepare me for it, and anything that was on the radio, I would try to beat it.

So if I could sing better than it or either ad lib in between little spots to kind of make it my own, I'd do that. But I was singing it to the tune, like exactly the way that it was. Got you. See, you know what? I have a theory about Usher, which is, there was a, I think this is when the, you make me want a video came out. And we were in the studio recording.

And the video came on the monitor. Like the volume was down, whatever. And my manager, Rich, said that, you know, what you're watching is, he said that Usher was the beneficiary of the first of the, what I call the VCR generation. And I was trying to figure out what he meant. And he was like, you see the mechanical way he's dancing. dancing and I was if you remember the way how mechanical the dancing wasn't you make me want to he was basically explained to me that usher grew up in like did mo that this is what I always wanted to

ask did motown 25 have an effect on you did you see it the first time it came out so I mean it came on in 83 so I guess you were like five or six like did that performance mean anything to you Because basically what he was trying to say was that in your formative years of getting entertainment, you had a VCR to keep rewinding and watching over because... It was more important to my cousins and my older... Trickle down? Yeah. It wasn't a first thing with you.

No, I wasn't. But... I would have never guessed that in a skill of years. Well, everybody loved Michael Jackson. but that was that was just off of you know off the wall and all that so we be i i could appreciate off the wall a little bit later in my life and he wasn't really the person who influenced me

michael jackson overall was as a presence because he was the biggest right but it was guys like bobby brown that connected yeah you know what i'm saying and yes looking back at that it was special to me but It was like I can't obtain that. I can't reach that. That's not, that doesn't necessarily, I can emulate it. I love Thriller. I was there with everybody watching Thriller, right?

And that phase, yes, everybody was completely crazy, fanatic over Michael Jackson. But even still, I was trying, I tried to emulate what I knew I was. And I was more of a street dancer and a singer. And I listened to New Edition, Bobby Brown. and in that world. I'm just saying from the fact that Troop. You're, you're,

oh, you're, my mamacita. No, I'm just saying that you, none of your experiences are firsthand church, you know, talent shows. Yeah.

Yes. That started in talent shows. Well, no, no, well, I just meant in terms of, of, like, radio plays a big part of, of your experiences. Whereas, like, a lot of the people that traditionally start... My shit was Donnie Simpson.

Oh, talk about it. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, that was my generation. Right. I'm from... Yeah, Sherry Carter and Donnie Simpson. That was my generation. And that's basically how I made the connection.

But dance, by the way... But was it a thing like, Mom, I want to sing and all this thing. It was just like, oh, yeah, I could do that. I can dance. But, I mean, were you thinking like... 11. That's what I want to be when I grow up. It was Michael that made me feel like that's what I want to do. It was Bobby Brown that made me feel like that's what I can do.

So Bobby Brown was more accessible to you. Right. Everybody. So he's your hero. Yeah. Wow. Damn, now I want to get your feelings on the new edition movie. So at what point are you, I mean, at what point? point does this become a thing where you

become serious about it because you the first group was when you were like 11, right? 11 and 12? I was 12. Well, talk about that experience. So there was a, they were a youth drug group who came to high schools

to talk about drug abuse gang violence and stuff like that, right? And this is back in the time when I was in like in talent shows just trying to find my way. So if I wasn't singing in church. I was singing, you know, in the yard, you know, in my neighborhood, you know, my cousin, he used to dance, so he would battle and stuff.

He had me come in, like, like, the little kid from, you know, Beat Street, and breaking. And I'd be like the special guest to cat who would come in and just slaughter because, you know. No one expected you and you just. It was like three-card, Molly, the dancer version. There you go. Like the random person in the crowd. Okay. But, yeah, it was.

it was um it was it was it was it was more bobby man it was more bobby brown than anything but finding my way to my voice it was just kind of trial never listened to that damn radio and then watching those videos and then i met this manager by the name of darrell wheeler right and he was like i really want you to be in i want you to audition for the group and um he said i want you to come to this show and we just so happen to be in the talent show, me and another two cats. And the talent show was over, and then they were to perform. So while they started their gig, I was in the back of the room just kind of looking, you know, looking.

And I'm watching all these people go crazy over these guys. So I just got up, ran to the middle of the floor, like ran all the way down the island just started dancing in the middle of their shit. You just jacked. Yeah, I mean, but that was, it was like I wanted it. I wanted to, I wanted to. to be a part of it and him leaving that little door open, which it was my best friend named Damekis,

who introduced me to Daryl in our auditorium at my elementary school or middle school, something like that. No, elementary school. But after that, man, I just kept going wherever they were. They had a performance downtown. Eventually they started having rehearsals in the gymnasium in the neighborhood. So I start coming in and just kind of looking at what they were doing to try to figure out what.

their dance steps and things were. And I would just sing. I was just sing, ready or not after seven. Remember that? Remember? Yeah, right? Yeah, right?

And I was like, you know, just use my talent. Let me figure out how to get in, whatever I got to do. They run heels and have all these drills that they would do, you know, to kind of prepare themselves and make themselves better performers

so they could, you know, not, so they wouldn't be tired on stage or whatever. So I did it. I was like, all of that. That's what I got to do. How old were they? I think the oldest guy in and Anthony Bird was He had to be like 16 or 17

Maybe 17 There was three other guys, Adrian Redd And another guy by the name of Chocolate So they were all in this, we were in this group together And it wasn't really going Because the reality was They were built to be what they were And you were meant to be solo

No, it didn't happen until a little bit later Actually it was, I'll tell you My mother was the reason that it had happened. But we then became a real group and we went to Forsyte County in Florida. And we signed with this record company, Forsyte Records, and we started, you know, building songs. So I had this song, Dream Girl. That was the first record that I ever had in that group. So then it gave me like a voice because otherwise I was just trailing behind playing or dancing to the records and shit that they had. And every so often I'd kind of, you know, try to upstate some.

somebody else through just doing riffs and shit like that. But my mother was like, you're not really getting the, you know, I'm not, my son's not getting the benefit because he's never on stage. You keep putting him in the back. And, you know, she just wasn't happy. You know, so he tried to do whatever he could. Eventually, you know, I left the group. She wanted me to get out of a group.

Of course I didn't want to get out of it. I actually ran away. It was crazy shit ever. I ran away from, I ran away from the crib. I ran away from the crib. Stick and bundle on. You ever threaten to run away from home but never do it? I tried to run away from home, brother.

Oh, black kids don't run away from home? I think we all do. You're threatened, but. You get to ask me when you come back home from running away. Yeah, because to our black parents, they'd be like, good, niggas, go. Yeah, that's what I'm on. She's like, believe your bad kid because all that shit in there is mine. Exactly.

Wait time about Bill, Steve, you are ever run away from home? Nothing to run away from. My sister did. Yeah, I'm about to say, I know Bill got a runaway story. My sister ran away from home like all the time. And you'll be like, she'll be back tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. See, and like,

bitches are crazy. Hey, man. Come on. So what year was that? How old were you when you ran away? I mean, I was 12, 13. This is around the time that my mother had moved me to Atlanta. And I was like, you know, you destroy my world, man.

This is everything to me. Please tell me what your mother said. Oh, I just look forward to it. She was like, I hear you. Oh. Okay. She's like, but she said, you're not going to. to go where you want to go in this group. So I'm going to, I promise you, I'm going to put you

in every situation that I can to be able to help you to show you that you're worth it, that you are a solo artist. So she started in me and entering me into talent shows, auditioned for Apollo, an addition for a star search. I got into a talent search, a talent show by the name of, um, um, it was an Atlanta talent search in Atlanta. Um, I was recognized by L.A. Reed's brother, Brian Reed, who, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, Then introduced me to L.A. A guy by the name of A.J. Alexander, he was kind of all in the middle of this shit, who actually was a bodyguard for Bobby Brown.

So Bobby Brown, he saw me. Brown's bodyguard situation. Yeah. It's serious. Shugnight. Shugnight, man. AJ Alexander. Yeah.

So, wait, why did she move to Atlanta from Chattanooga? She moved because, you know, she wanted more, man. She wanted more out of her life. What was in Chattanooga? Like what was your observations of Chattanooga was there? I mean, it's not much different now than it was then in terms of opportunity for, you know, advancement. Like it's very, there's, if you have the confidence that comes from elsewhere, you'll wander into other areas. But if you don't, black people stay away from white people.

And there's a black side of town damn near and a white side of town or a progressive side of time. And whenever I'm there, I kind of go between the both. And I'm like, yo, have y'all ever been over there? Like, man, I don't know, niggum, we don't go over there. What the fuck you're doing? Have you returned to Chattanooga to do a sense? No, no, no. I've returned to Chattanooga to do, you know, philanthropic work.

You have a street named after you, right? Yeah. What area is that in? It's in front of the school that I was telling you about Dillwood. It's like right down, right in front of it. Now I want to know if he had his Chris Rock sign moment. Like, you know, homo. Chattanooga.

Hall of Lusher Raymond? The fourth. Yeah. So she went to Atlanta just to get you a better opportunity. She went to Atlanta because it offers something better for her. My stepfather at the time, he worked for this trucking company. And it was better for him to be there. And also, too, it was an opportunity for her to be able to move forward.

So how were you when you moved to Atlanta? I was 11, 11, 12. So I was kind of going back and forth from Chattanooga to Atlanta working with the group. And when we worked on that album, you know, it's, you know, I was kind of just moving wherever I could, man. Because I, at the age of eight, that's when I decided what I was going to do. I had this vision. And from that vision, it was like, okay, I want to be an entertainer. I want to, I want to be on stages.

I want to perform for people. And that's what I want to do. I don't want to play football. I know all y'all play football. basketball and baseball because my entire family is comprised of us like all-star athletes. My uncle played for the Kansas City Chiefs. My cousin, he played at Duke. All these guys that kind of gave me some kind of idea where I wanted to go. And I was like, nah, that's not me. I want to perform. I want to entertain. But how proud must they have been when you did the cavaliers move? Because that's

like the perfect combination. Like they must have been, oh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty cool, right? Yeah. Like, you even, you did it either way. Yeah. Yeah. You know, um, oddly enough, man, you know, once my grandmother passed, we don't really get together the way we used to. And I wish that we did more. But everybody's grown up, either they have kids. There's some of them back in Chattanooga, some of them moved to other, you know, states. Some people got married. You know, some people live in Atlanta. Some people, you know, move to D.C. But, um, we don't talk as much as we used to. Yeah Change it

Yeah I got to work on that I got to work on that Big Mama is the one That keeps her family together Always man When she goes It's no

Yeah You can't go all the way To West Africa And I go to Chattanooga You know what I mean You gotta get there Somehow You gotta pick up a few people

On your way A win is a win A win I don't care What I'm saying Yep That's me Cliver Taylor the 4th

You might have seen The Skits The reactions My Journey From basketball To college football Or my career In sports media

Well Somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never. mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. So, okay, so by the time you're 11,

it's like the 90s, early 90s, 91, 92, I guess. by this point Atlanta's officially put its stamp on being a black music mecca I mean is that fact lost on you or is that something you're not thinking about like oh

this could be a better opportunity for me because no it's a part of my mother's plan it was a part of my mother's plan she even mentioned she says you know that LA reading baby face you know they just started a record label in Atlanta and you know I hear that, you know, you could get, you know, if we put you in talent shows, you can get recognized.

So she put me in this, there was his brother's distinction, I think, was the name of the group that was putting together this thing. And somehow L.A. Reed's name was attached to it, or Bryant Reed's name was attached to it. And that's, I'm telling you, that's where I made a connection. But it was really A.J., a J. Alexander, that's the dude who discovered me, man.

Out of all the people who could claim and say, you know, I found him, I saw him first. that was a dude who really recognized my talent and was like, yo, work with me. He, man, this dude took me everywhere, man. This dude took me to meet Bobby for the first time. I thought I was going to be Bobby Brown's artist. That didn't happen. Oh, God.

Thank God. You almost in the B Brown. He's almost so dropping on the one? I may have dodged a bullet. No point of time. No, no, you definitely did. But also, too, man, and I could remember way back, he'd had me in the parking lot of 112.

Keith Sweat coming out. I have to perform for him right there in the middle of the parking lot. Dallas, Austin, in the parking lot, Germain Dupree, all of these people, like just trying to get. Parking line pimping. Yeah, on another level. Where is AJ now? Is he still?

He's in Atlanta. He's in between Miami and in Atlanta. Okay, cool. Yeah. So you were allowed. He's a photographer now, man. Oh, that's dope. Yeah.

So you were allowed out after hours to sort of case these spots and, and perform. Without a doubt. I was not the kid that you told no, because I wouldn't accept it. I'd say, okay, if you don't want me to do and I'm doing it. Guess what else? You're still the kids that can't be talking. I wish I were here.

Your favorite least word is no. For those for those in the need context, you know, usher and the roots are working together now. So Whenever I want Usher to do something, I now have to present it in a positive context just so he can say no.

And that can be like, whew. But I guess it's been that now. I got to go back. Thanks. Thank you. Now I know what you're doing. You know what? Yeah.

I'm sure you're right. We should do a 12-minute version of you got a bet. You're right. You are so right, man. But this must have been a really hard job for your mom because, like, your mom evolved into like super manager. Like she was like Matthew knows before Matthew knows. And at the same time, she had to keep you confident as an artist but humble as a man.

How, why? Did you all? Yeah, I want to know what kept you out of trouble because... Say that again? I said confident as an artist but kind of like humble as a man. Like not a jerk. That's like a deodorant commercial. Basically saying...

Confident as an artist. Basically saying like not a dickhead. Because as we're sitting here talking to you And I've seen, we throughout the years, you're not a dickhead. Like, you're a very humble individual. But like Amir just said, you know what you want. You won't say no.

Yeah. But, you know, it's a fine line. The confidence was, the confidence came for me, right? And it came from the security of having someone who I knew had my back, which was my mom. So as long as she was able to focus on the business, I could focus on the art and the creative part of it, right? which made it all right.

And then the rest of it was like, I just never wanted to be in some shit that I felt like I couldn't control. You know what I'm saying? I never wanted, and so many people were getting caught out there. So those references was like, I can't let none of that shit be the reason

that I don't make it to where I want to be. And I'm definitely not going to let, you know, I'm not going to, and I had so many little heels to climb. Like, I lost my voice as soon as I got signed. like imagine that right when you signed the first deal when I signed the deal to the face records I lost my voice

for how long I lost my voice like puberty or like oh my like puberty loss of Puberty lost my word for about two months it was like that and you didn't know what your future was

And I didn't know what the hell was getting ready to go on The label was talking about dropping me Before after poetic justice This was after poet justice I couldn't perform the record They put the record on Yeah we never really saw it Yeah they had a uh

a showcase for me and I couldn't perform the record at all. Puffy was there. I think they were entertaining him him being my exact producer at the time. But yeah, man, it just went away. What was it?

Wow. Okay, because now I have, wait, can I? I know what you're going to say. I know. I know. I know. Sadatized. Shut up, man. That's his favorite theory for everything. No, but I'm saying like black people really delve into

psychological matters or whatever. Like, I know that me personally, for anything that I'm trying to overcome, you know, and something happens, like an injury or something, it's, you know, I'm, sometimes I think, like, okay, how do you really feel? Are you scared at this moment, whatever?

Like, the mind does have a way of crippling you And while you're facing an unknown journey. Exactly. Okay. Now, in theory, was it eight weeks laryngitis or did you feel afraid? In theory, what do you think? In theory, did I feel afraid? I felt like it was over.

And I felt like, okay, if I just, I mean, I did what I knew to do at the time, which was prey. So I was like, but did you feel it was psychosomatic? Yeah, well, I, like subconsciously. No, I didn't, I didn't sabotage myself. It wasn't fear or something like that. No, you mean in terms of just having to go through that at that moment? Because sometimes your body can do things.

No, it had nothing to do with that. I was working my ass off and I wanted it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There's an artist that I can't name. Right. That's always the same artist.

I just figured it out. Everybody in the room can know but me. That's crazy. No, it's not that artist. It's not the fourth letter of the alphabet. Yeah, no, hell no. It's, you know. Okay, yeah, because that's always him.

Okay. Yeah. I know. I keep dragging him under the bus. No. Unnamed. Okay, there was, there was an artist that we were working with. And a situation happened.

Oh, God. I love these. These are so good. A situation happened in which... Let's play guessing. They're... You always get so frustrated when you explain it. I know, because I'm not...

Like, how ambiguous can you do? I'm not trying to be gossipy or ride somebody on the bus. But I think this is a classic case of it. Their teeth started to fall out. Whoa. Oh, shit. Now, it wasn't like, oh, they got to... Like, literally...

No. Their teeth started to fall out. There's a pressure that comes with... No. No, there is a pressure. You're right. Okay, so now I'll... I'll follow you what you're saying, but I had a different destiny, and I was connected to it.

And the moment that I decided that that was what I was going to do, I wouldn't let anything come in between me and that, right? But you're right. There are tons of people who sabotaged themselves who got caught up on, you know, and drinking and then eventually, you know, moved unupgraded to, you know, heroin. Yeah, but I don't even think this is thinking like, okay, a big moment's about to happen for me tomorrow. Let my teeth fall out right now. Now, but I do believe that subconsciously we are able to create obstacles without even purposely wanting to do that.

Yeah. Which. Wait, wait, wait. First of all, how was he? She. She. You know the story you like you? I mean, I'm putting some things together.

Oh, damn. Uh-oh. Um, mid-20s. So that's far more advanced than a child. You know what I'm saying? And so the reality of probably the disappointment that led up to that moment had everything to do with the pressure that was going on with her. So like, so when you, so you cut, y'all cut, call me a Mac and then you lost your voice. Because that was what, 93?

93. 90, yeah, 93. That was 93. So how did you get on that soundtrack? Because that wasn't even LaFace related. It was. No, LA Reed and Babyface. They actually, that was on epic.

It was on epic. It was on epic. Like TLC was on the soundtrack too. Oh, okay. I mean, but was that a LaFace slash epic thing? It was an L.A. reading baby face thing, I think. I think they had something to do with the, like, organizing of the album. Oh, okay.

Gotcha. They didn't produce all the songs, like Boomerang and all that shit. But, yeah, man, that was kind of like my lunch. But at the rate that I was working my voice, I mean, I had sang until I actually, you know, lost my voice plenty of times. But this time when I woke up the next day, that shit just didn't come back. Damn. So the next day.

came and then the weekend was there and then it was the next week i'm like what's going on how did you feel i mean i felt like my window of opportunity was closing and i felt like okay what were people saying around you at that point like um tisk tisk yeah they were like they were like okay well what what's going to happen now because you know this kid he's lost his voice and he can't perform this song so we'll just kind of ride it out with him you know i signed a contract with him so at least i had the you know the length of the deal you know what i'm saying but at that point the fear of man they're not going to put any more money into me if i don't get if i don't do my part so i had to do whatever i could to try to fix or remedy the problem and this was before you'd even started

recording the first album i had i had well i went through a stint where i worked with the dungeon family and i worked with these producers out of detroit by the name of tim and bob that's when i lost my God, oh, wow. Okay. Tim and Bob were from the deep? I didn't know that. No, I'm sorry, not Tim and Ted. Tim and Bob are from Peoria.

Oh, Tim and Ted, the characters. Yeah. Yeah, I remember them. So. They were from the characters? Yeah. They were on the, the boys. No, that was Troy Taylor.

Oh, Troy Taylor. Yeah. He was mixing shit all up in this. Yeah. Rabbit hole. Tim and Ted and Bill and Ted. They have next to the original. But, dude.

But anyway, Tim and Ted. They worked on a couple of records with me, and I lost my voice, man. And I just. it just went away and I had to figure that shit out. So now I'm dealing with the fact that the label's getting ready to drop me. And Puff was like, nah, y'all can't do this kid like that. Let me take him to New York. So he took me.

He put me with vocal coaches out here to try to, you know, kind of change the direction of it. And then his idea wasn't about me being this perfect singer, even though I had, like, you know, Kenny from intro and Missy. and I mean, like great singers, Faith Evans, all these great singers around me, you know, and they were supporting me too, like, now you're going to be all right, just keep going. I'll be sure he worked on my first album.

Aloysius. Yeah. So wait, so Puffy took an interest in your career, even though you weren't signed the bad boy or his management company? I mean, okay, so the reality of how the business works is odd, right? So if you have an artist like me, that's an open budget

and if you're attempting to establish a record company that damn that gives you free range to do whatever you want to do during them sessions so why you were talking so nasty so I was not

but by the way a genuine relationship was built in that but don't get it fucked up I knew what was going on you know what I was like if Craig Mac is walking out of my session you know I'm like

oh my Oh, oh, right. No, but, I mean, but by the way, that was what it was in that time. That's the 90s, you know what I'm saying? So what's your budget played for some bad boy stuff? Boy. A little biggie. Exclusive.

Little Craig. Wow. So, like, what was that like? Because, for one, I understand what I read before, that was, like, boot camp, like, for you. Like, he had you and, like, what was that shit, like, with Puff during that time? I mean, like, yeah, to say the least. Did you move to New York by yourself or like your mom came with you? I moved to New York with my cousin.

And shortly after that, Puff was like, I got him. My cousin left and that's when. Oh, no. Yeah. All right. How old were you at this time? Around this time, I'm 15. Oh, hang on.

15 in New York, 15, you're old. Living with Puff. Ninety-F-4-era puff. Hey, man, listen. What were your mother's rules? What was her? Did she... I mean, thank God she raised a sensible child.

You know what I'm saying? Because it was readily available. Whatever you wanted to do, you know what I'm saying? It was pretty crazy. And for the average kid, they would look at it like, yo, this is the greatest shit ever. But for me, man, I was a bit sheltered. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I really hadn't been exposed to sex and shit like that. Like, I was, I'm from the South, you know what I'm saying? I came in with a fucking ruffled jacket on looking like I was in Earth winning fire. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? And Mark Pitts picked me up from the airport and was like, yo, we got you. You know what I'm saying?

You know what now? We got to get this fucking jacket off you, though. So you just wrong with the bad boy posse like it was nothing? Yeah, yeah, man, I was with him. You knew Biggie, you knew. Yep. Yeah. Wow.

How did he have you working? Like, what was the, I guess, the boot camp? Like, what was that training regimen? Like, we take your budget. He was ready to die. No. No, but he had me in the studio with Devante. I worked with, I'll be sure.

I worked with Kenny from intro. I worked with... Damn, it's like R&B heaven. It is. You got to tell the story. I don't mean like a salacious story, but it's like... No, because like Fave's backgrounds on that album, like, she's...

Was nuts. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy, man. What did Al teach? Yeah, I'm like, y'all, I got questions. What did Al teach you? We're talking about Whispers, you know what I'm saying?

Oh, man. You said that's one of your favorites. No, that's my favorite. Yeah, that was my favorite on that album. Whispers, final goodbye. I'll show you. Yeah. Because at the time, think of you, we like think of you because that was.

Down Down Jones. Shucky, he flipped the Black. Who Got the Prox? Ronnie. Ronnie Laws. Yeah, the Ronnie Laws. So it was like, I was like, oh, he's singing. over the Black Woon shit.

But yeah, that record, because I was... And I'm oblivious. I don't know none of the shit they do. So that first album spoke to you? That album spoke to you when you... Dude, what? Me too. Hell yeah.

Okay, I get it. You know, R&B, niggas, I love it. See, but that's another generational thing between the two of you and me. Because, again, I assume, were you, 78, 79? Yeah, I'm 78. And Bill? 79.

Yeah. Again, that difference, like pre-75, 71 to 75 cats, we have a chip on our shoulder about R&B. You know what I'm saying? So we're not that receptive. Like, even when I met DeAngelo, I was dismissive, like, R&B cat. Whatever. I mean, I was just a Nazi that way. So I would have been more dismissive to it.

Whereas you guys were of age. We would hip hop smooth out on the R&B tip. With a pop field to it. feel to it. Doing a dance rolling. Because y'all were 16 when it came. You were open. And at the time, I mean, because I always thought

it was strange that that record in hindsight, like it kind of of, you know, people thought that he was, that you were too young to be singing about. I was singing mature shit. Yeah, but. But it was right in time where we were developing, right.

Exactly. That was the type of shit that was going on. That was my name. Give me a tune. Give me a join. Can you get with it? Can you get with it? Can you with it?

Whispers? Look, man, the run, look, man, let me tell you something. The run. So, love was here. Whispers. I love it when he goes straight to her. You took my heart, the many ways.

The many ways. Come on, man. Crazy. That is phone bone gold. I'm taking. My apron is on. I'm making the best cake right now. Oh, fuck.

Yo. He's taking and baking. Wait, let me turn it out real quick for you, babe. Let me turn this up. All right. Tom. And I had a hair. on my tape.

Okay, if you're just joining us. You got here at the right time. If you're just joining us, we're talking to Usher Raymond the 4th and Fonte's phone boom classics on his first record, which apparently, as a guy who studied all of his music,

I need to revisit. So if you're in the audience watching the Usher Roots experience. What song you like, yo, that's my, y'all got to do this one? They're going to determine the last two songs. I mean, something off the first record. You already said one.

The many ways was, I think that one was dope. What's some trying to think another one that people would like, that well, because I'm trying to think of songs that were like good, but now, even now, I think it would be appreciated more. The many ways is just a gorgeous fucking song. Like I just think that's just a very well-refer song. All right. Can I, can I rock?

Many, let's go. Hit the post. Hit the post. This is Questlove Supreme with Foon Boom Classic number one by Usher Raymond the 4th. That's right. It's going to make you say,

oh, this is the many ways. You need to work on that. I'm disappointed. It's okay. All they heard was Usher Mowing anyway. You like what you here, baby. Then you around my way a couple times. You must have just moved around the way, right?

I see all the fellas been personally for your number. I like to get to number. So, um, let me do this with some time, you know what I'm saying? Talking a phone or something. That was The Many Ways by Usheryam and our special guest on Quest Love Supreme.

So are you are you one of those people that cringe when you hear your older material or that people salivating over stuff that you made 15 years ago? go. Yeah, hell yeah.

What? So, like, hearing that record now is like, it's nice. Like, what are you thinking on when you, when, I'm like, like, you could have spilled pizza on your shirt and you were like, oh, man, that's when I wore, you know. Like, what are you thinking of when you hear that? One, that I had lost my voice because I can hear it. I'm like, damn, I was fighting trying to get to that shit. Yeah.

So what was it like when you finally got full control your voice back and it was like, oh, I can talk again? Oh, shit. Yeah. It was actually after I left New York. When I left New York, then I began to slowly but surely get it back. You came to New York to record this record this record. And you didn't have your voice fully?

Didn't I have my voice. So how long could you sing before the crack starts? The cracks in your voice. No, ladies and gentlemen, I have never done crack. I think it, you know, because I started trying to promote the album. You know what I'm saying? I was, there's another tie that you got,

which will bring you the new edition, but I was being managed by Brooke Payne. Oh, and Jeff Dyson at the time. Wait a minute. You are a Brooke Payne student? Yeah. Jesus Christ, that's, that explains a lot, right?

I wonder if that was during the break. Wait, when was that? No, okay. So, so now I start performing the records, but every time I hear them songs, I'm like, damn. That's just crazy.

You know, how far that, because you're living all of it, you know, and my voice has changed about five different times throughout the entire process. Can I tell you something funny that you don't know? Tell me. All right, so when I first signed the first record, I wanted to do a album with Babyface and L.A. Reed, right? I signed specifically for that reason. Why? Because of End of the Road.

Because of Bobby Brown, the hero that I, my hero was produced by these two dudes, right? So you didn't see him as like, old, Calder, yeah, that's what I was thinking. Bobby Brown, that's it. No, no, no, not Bobby, but L.A. and face. Yeah, but he's like, they made that music. They made that music, so that's all I knew. And I knew that Babyface was still doing it.

L.A. Reed, I didn't know if he was in the studio. I didn't know that he had stopped completely producing, but I was like, as long as I can get a record by y'all. So, L.A. Reid wanted Babyface to work on me, and they were going through, you know, a lot of drama at the time. They were kind of severing their ties, or either he just didn't want it. He wasn't comfortable. in Atlanta.

And by the way, we talked about this shit, so it's cool. I can tell you this, but it's kind of like private. Anyway, he got mad, and he built an entire album with an artist that we know. Oh, yeah.

And he built an entire album for me, and he gave the entire album to that tune. I don't know. What is this? Okay, now this is, okay, let's just the guessing again. Hold on, hold on. Right. This is like an mirror moment.

Hold on. Who got mad? This is, this is, baby face got mad. Baby face was upset. And gave a whole album to somebody. To someone else. And what years is this? It's not Damien Dame.

Uh-uh. It's not Jermaine Jackson. That's not Jermaine Jackson. Some other one young guy, period in that time. What year? I'm trying, what year is this? Ninety- 93.

93. I can't even remember who else was around. On the face? I'll just tell you he on in the face. He was, it was Kevin Campbell. Man, what? Oh. I wanted to get him.

I wanted to get him. Oh. You almost had. Can we talk? That was my song. Oh, girl. Oh, shit. Exclusive.

Was just me and you? No, that was a second. There's a song for your set list right there. Take it back, son. Oh, I'm reclaiming. Can we talk? Take that song back. Can we talk?

Yeah, don't take a bye girl. Always in my heart. Always in my heart. Damn, all those. He got mad. They was just, they was fighting. And Puff and him, they had words or something like that. And then, you know, whatever.

Okay. Can I ask? Because he can understand. I don't understand. Why wouldn't you do, why would you give an album like that to this dude? You know what I'm saying? Like, you got your own artist and they was having their shit. So he was like, I'd I do his album. You know what I'm saying? Wow. All right. Can I ask, okay.

So wait, no, because I don't. Hold on. Wait, hold it. Did you record the songs and then like just later? No, I never got in the studio with him. I never got in the studio with him. And I couldn't understand. It wasn't until bedtime. That was my first record with him. What year was that? That was the next album. That was my way. So, okay, was bedtime presented to you already in its completed form? No, it was primarily done.

Was it worked on on the spot right in front of you? It was worked on in the studio, and I was there, and then I went in the booth and cut it. Okay, I'm doing it. I don't think it was a song like that. He just pitched me, no, I wouldn't that. Because I'm doing a journalistic, no, no, but I have a theory. Because I'm very a... obsessed with the process of how the water just went dry for baby face after 2001, really

1998. You know, there's the period. Yeah. The clap with him. I know something. Yeah. Of L.A. baby face. And then there's the 95 to 99 baby face by himself.

Yeah. And then it's like, oh, he with the Neptunes? Like, just hanging on. Yeah, that was, yeah. And the thing is, is that I had a theory that the real L.A. and baby face was as yet. Okay. Because what many people don't know is that, again, these are all my theories. I'm not trying to throw last night.

There's something like that was. Yeah. Exactly. But I'm saying that. What many people don't know, especially people not involved in the industry, is that a lot of these times when you're working with these super producers, you're really just leasing their name. Yeah. They got workers really going to go. I mean, a person that we know, for the example is Dr. Dre.

And your KOs and. Right. So when you're giving Dr. Dre a quarter of a million dollars for Dr. Dre's song, chances are is that he has minions and people work. Like, yeah, he's there to instruct that. But as far as actually doing the layman's work, I always feel. felt you're crushing me right now these are my theories these are my theories and I don't

want to put you in the position where you have to confirm or deny it but I'm just saying that when you are between 1994 and 1999 baby face L.A. and baby face combined her solo

had at least 10 to 15 bangers per year and then everything stopped and then I I scientifically looked at everything And then hip hop happened But life happened He got a divorce

He got married All of that shit And then He probably just wasn't as hungry for it You know what I'm saying Like I'm we're great friends now Right

He's the guy that I can call it 4 o'clock in the morning He'll pick up the phone You know what I'm saying And I've asked Like I'll go back And I'm listening to all of those old school Like well what is old school now

You know what I'm listening to those records And I'm like, what the hell were y'all doing? Like, there's a feeling of this shit in the mixture, like the, like the science of what this was, like, how y'all were mixing shit together? What were y'all thinking? He was like, man, we had that song for like six years. That was just sitting in the, like, Roney, that had just been sitting in there. I'm like, for real? He's like, yeah, man, way before we gave it to Bobby.

Yeah, but next to Prince's genius streak of 82 to 87, 88, I felt like Babyface's output of songs was unparalleled. And then it just stops like that. So what do you think it was? Well, I kind of want you to insinuate or not insinuate. Just, yeah, just fuck, John. Just because I know that Farrell writes all of his stuff and does his work alone. I know Premier produces all of his stuff and, like, really just solo by himself. I can't even imagine that Babyface had the work ethic where he's up night and day, just effortlessly.

Turning them out. churning out hit after hit after hit like he has 35 to 40 like oh i remember that song oh i remember that song oh i remember that song so what i'm saying is once as yet left the premises and the divorce and the yab yumb versus la face wore whatever went down today man come on man you're the cat with the canary tell me you're not going to tell me are you No, I mean, I'm saying, by the way, at that age, I don't think I was thinking of any of that shit. I was just like, I want to get in the studio

and actually get one out of him because I haven't had any record, period. I'm just saying, did you physically see him work? Like, does he have a paper and a pen? I didn't. He said it. Okay, that's all I wanted. That's all I wanted.

I didn't know if L.A. and Babyface was a bit, like, did they just come to you with these songs, or was it like you saw them sitting there, or this chord, that chord? What do you think? I just, I can't. I never got the Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards. Like, it wasn't that.

I don't think. He presented, the one that I can tell you, that was one record that he presented to me. And I think that that's what kind of like really made him not fuck with me at all, period. Or L.A. Reed with regards to me. Because he also, too, he didn't believe in me as an artist. He was like, I don't really, I don't really think he got. L.A. Reed? Babyface.

He was like, I don't really, I don't get him. And he presented a record. and Puff, he rejected the record. And that was it. It was like, all right, well, then I'm not going to have nothing to do with it at all. How did you feel? I was devastated. I actually signed the deal to work with those two producers.

And I, to this day, still ain't got a record from them. You know what I'm saying? Like, together. So Puff oversaw the first album. He made the call in terms of what was on that record. He EPed the first album, yeah. Gotcha. Got you.

Now, how did it go from, because, you know, you were talking about when you lost your voice, they were thinking of dropping you. So then the first album comes out and it doesn't do, you know, it doesn't sell, I guess, you know, whatever. What did us share want to keep you? What did the first album wind up doing? I mean, I think in its probably greatest, it maybe got up to about maybe gold, maybe.

Like now. Yeah, maybe it might be gold. Really? Yeah. That single carry that joint. Okay. So how did you go from not getting dropped? Yeah.

to my way. Like, how did you? Well, I started working with Dallas Austin on my next album. And, you know, I bought him a Lamborghini because that was with the exchange for doing my album. Damn. How did you go on my Lamborghini?

Even Steve is laughing. Damn. They was killing my budget, bro. I was of that group of artists who really, you know. He had hype Williams budgets. No, but it wasn't that. that was that time. So they had to find ways to kind of move and work their own shit.

And the artists, they just had to absorb that. And plus, I knew what it was. We understood. And if you think about what you're going to end up paying a producer, it would be the equivalent of that. You know what I'm saying? He made money too, right? No.

He did the album for that. For a Lamborghini? Yeah. Well, he was, it didn't happen. So, wait, wait, it didn't happen because he and I didn't, we didn't blend. So I was going to work on this album called a Book of Love with him. With Dallas, okay. And the motherfucker just wouldn't show up to the studio.

I'd be sitting there for hours. I'd come there, be sitting in the front. Then eventually I started picking up instruments and start trying to build out of my damn selves. Was this around the time when he was playing with Fishball? Was it around that time? Yeah. I think it was, yeah.

95, 96. Yeah, but I just think that he really didn't, he didn't, he didn't believe in me like that. You know what I'm saying? I think it was more or less of a favor for L.A. And I wasn't a priority. And he was trying to get his label off the ground, too, around that time. He was a ride.

Jamal and him. Yeah, yeah. Illegal. Yeah. Monica. Monica, that's what I was about to say. Yeah, he really just wasn't focused. So instead of us continuing to do that, I mean, it was just disrespectful.

Like, he wouldn't show up to the studio. Like, hey, man, the session starts at this time. And he was like, you know, man, you got to get this dude to chill out. Like, you know what I mean? I'm a viber dude. You know what I like to just do things in the club? I'm like, fuck that, man. We're going to work on that out.

We're going to work on the aisle. We're going to work on the aisle. Let's do it. So I was like, fuck it. I'm not coming to the studio. I'm done. And that was it. That was the history of that.

And, you know. There it with. Like, in my mind, I'm thinking, like, you're in Atlanta. I imagine how to fuck I feel. I sang. At the climax of, like, the Atlanta movement. Like, I'm thinking, like, it's like the new Motown where, you know, TLC's in the house and all these groups and everyone's one big-ass family. That happened.

All of that is still true. But the reality is, like, certain things ain't meant to happen. I mean, I've seen this guy, and I was the full, I was a very, very special artist. You know what I'm saying? Like, back then, I had the confidence of like 10 billion people. No. No. So I'm in a, I'm in, shut up, man.

So I wish you, stop learning to me. So look, the dude passed up on me, man. Like, like, he's seen me before. I performed for him. And he was like, yeah, give me a call tomorrow, man, you know, like that. I was like, all right, cool. You know what I see you again, man. Damn.

You know, so I'm still holding on a little bit of that by sitting in that lobby. You know, I was like, man, fuck it. I'm not coming back to the studio. Dude, this explains everything because I'm seeing, I'm getting to know you as a person and as an artist and really, you know, I purposely, especially for this interview, normally, you know, I'll Google and start reading all interviews just to see where you mind. But I know that you have this. tireless work ethic about you.

And now this is starting to make sense because now I feel like you really got something to prove. Even though, yeah, you might be cool with Face and Dallas now. You'll see each other, give each other a pound or whatever. Yeah. But now I'm feeling like, oh. We cool now, though. Wait a way to they get a load of me now.

Yeah, because you won. I'm just feeling like the Joker. Like now, are you feeling like... There's another chapter to that, too, by the way. Or what? There's another chapter of that that we haven't got to yet. but I'm just saying, because I ended up.

Oh, shit. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's not saying. You won. You won. I wasn't even trying to go there. You want.

No. No. You win. Let's go there. Anyway, I'm just saying that as an artist, I'm thinking that you now, oh, wow. You sound like me over there. No, but ah. Anyway, go in.

Let's go in. Shut up. Oh, always love's green. No, no, we're not trying to turn this into that. No, it's not the gossip hour. Not that, but, you know. I mean, but there's certain truths that actually make it fun.

You know what I'm saying? And we all grown. We passed the shit. Mean, I sure's mean. No, but we passed it. So, I mean, the reality is that. Ashur's Patty. Yeah.

Yeah. That's cool shit. Embrace the petty. Yeah, man. Petty. Okay, so how did. So how did you? So, how did you.

come across the high hat king Jermaine Dupree. I'm sorry. So thank you for the record. Rick Rubin has the loudest scratches on hip-hop records, but bar none Jermaine DePree's high hats.

High hats. Like when you're spinning records, sometimes your needle can be sensitive to grooves on the record. And his high hats are thrown in the world. Any Jermaine DePreepre yeah, it's a tz, like, It could affect, he has the loudest hip hop high hats of all time.

I mean, I respect it, but, you know, I mean, back then was frustrating as hell to spend a Germain DePrie cut because the high hats would always skip the record sometimes as well. Anyway, so how did you wind up with Germain DePri? He did a remix for Think of You. And that was the beginning of me kind of working with him. And he was like, you know, if you work, you know, let's work together. And I was like, man, I really do, I think it was, like, you really did a great job. It came in the studio.

He produced it from scratch. And so we created it right there. You know what I'm saying? And he was just dope. I was like, man, when I work on my next album, I really want you to, I really want you to be a part of it. And, you know, L.A. read put us together after Dallas. And, uh, when you were working in L.A., right? No, we did all of that.

Did you do any songs with Dallas? None. Damn. Okay. Yeah. none that came out. You mean like did we actually eventually get him? Like was there a song like, yeah, I've had a song called Waterfalls

first or whatever. I mean like, did you ever work any song with Dallas? I think he was working with Deborah Kilpin. No, not Deborah Killings. Deborah, no, Debra Cox. So there's a couple of records on Debra Cox. They probably slid from my project to her project. And I think it was that Montel do do do do da da, doda, baby, it's all right.

It's all right. You had that same. I didn't do the record, but I'm saying I would have potentially had that record if I weren't around him. I see. And not to say that it wasn't, you know, he had his process, man. It just didn't work with me. You know what I'm saying? All right.

Y'all didn't vibe. That's cool. Anyway, so I ended up, you know, being put with JD and we just started working. I just started kicking it with him. We worked on it in Atlanta in his basement. Oh, wow. Okay. Yo, about that.

Manuel Seel. Talked me about him because he was like, I would always. see him working with J.D. He was like one of my favorite songwriters. Yeah. And what was his process like? So J.D. had Emmanuel Seal working at the time. And Kwan Prerther.

K. P. P. Yeah, K. P. Damn, that's the name. Kwan Prather. K. K. Wrether. Yeah. He's, is K. K. P., you know, not. K. K.P., he's independent. He works with Farrell now. But he, he worked with parental advisory at the time.

Yeah. Yeah. right. I got the official names of him. He was in. He was in, he was in, he was in the DJ. Oh, R. Kelly. Thank you. Okay, God. No. That's public annals. Oh, no. I'm back to my quiet place. That's our first lady over there. Wait, was that, let's get naked.

No, that was Highland Place Moffin. PA, you guys. I just joined lie here in the graveyard. That's all right. You're going to be in the graveyard. He was signed to a pepitone, weren't they? They had to deal with MCA. Yeah. R. Kelly. She got Tourette's over there

Public announcements Are Kelly Tourette's That's great That's so not Who did Sorry, sorry No so KP He was over there with me

And we just started working on the album You know what I'm saying And the rest is kind of like It became history I just worked day and day But JD had such a weird Fucking way of working And after dealing with

Dallas Austin It was like You want me to come I come to the studio and sit and watch you play fucking video games. I can't do that, man. I don't play. And then I just didn't play video. I just wasn't a kid who played video games.

I stopped and was like, I can't catch back up. I'm sorry. I put the joystick down. So I'm here to work. I was that serious, you know what I'm saying? So now I was like, yo man, let's pay pool, man. You know, at least that's a game that I can play. So we started playing pool for pushups and shit like that.

And then before you know it, I was doing crunches and shit. And I started forming a goddamn six-pack. Damn. So that became a party. That's when that happened? Yeah, that's what happened. He was subliminally trying to get you in shape also of that shit. But his is missing.

Good one. So what was the first song y'all worked on? First record we worked on. Oh, man, what was the first one? I don't think it was a song that made the album. Okay. I don't think it was a record that made the album. I don't even remember the damn name of it, man.

The name that... Oh, okay. I was like, well, the album's called My Way. The first album we worked on was called My Way. The first song. The first song I do not remember. Yeah, I remember My Way. That hit My, that was my freshman year of college.

And you make me want to like this. You made me almost like the last record of the entire album. Why is that always the case? Because it's always like, we're missing something. We need a single. We need a single. Was that the case? Someone's like, we're missing something?

I think it was. No, I think it was... My favorite joint was One Day You'll be mine. And it wasn't because of the Isley sample. Just like me. I think just like me was the first record that we worked on. But what was the song that you were like, all right, I'm bad. You got something.

Now I'm a force to be record with her. I think it was nice and slow. That was the one that was like, oh, shit, we got something. But comeback, it was another record that we worked on. And, um... So how is J.D. directing this? Because at that point, I'm thinking of them strictly from hip-hop context. Yeah.

So as a producer, what is his process in the studio? Like, is he sitting there coaching you on vocals? No. Yo, I'm so glad. Look, I hate vocals. I will be like, all right, you do what you do. I'm going to play games. Back at this point.

Now, he does now. He'll actually sit in the studio with me now. But back then, you had to literally, like, sit in the living room or, like, his little living room area downstairs in the basement and they would just play video games for hours so who's coaching your vocals on this stuff eventually it was emmanuel and a guy uh this is back with phil tan who was his oh yeah yeah yeah his engineer his engineer is always the vocal coached he would he would actually go through a vocal production with me but um it was mostly emmanuel because he he would he would put it down piece by piece and i kind of go in and then work on it

we wrote certain things together were you guys coached writing together? Yeah. Yeah. I would basically, you know, talk to JD about just different shit and before you know it, he started writing. I hadn't developed my writing. I hadn't picked up a pen yet.

I'm just kind of like talking about things and he's taking it in, writing it. And before you know it, I'll come back to the studio. He'll hit me at 3 o'clock in the morning like, come to the studio. I'm like, I'm sleepy. I was out there all day waiting on you to damn produce something and then you didn't. Are you a daytime studio person? At that time I was. Because I mean, if I was still in school, man,

like I'm still in school trying to figure out how to balance between two worlds. And, you know, I Yeah, I come out there 3 o'clock in the morning, tired as hell, and he wanted to work. I had to start, go. So you went to physical school.

Like, you weren't tutor and the celebrity. No, wait a minute, I'm fucking up. No, I was out of school then. I was taking my... I think you were 19. But the craziest shit is I was the family driver in addition to being a nighttime artist. You had your little brother.

You drove your mom to work? I had to drive my mom to work. And your brother. Drive my girl to... Wait, was your mom still working? My mother was still working. I had to drive my mom to work. I had to drive my girlfriend to Spelman

and then drop my brother off. Look at your Spelman girl. Yeah. Drop my brother off. And then get my ass back to the house for just a second. Go pick my little brother up. go pick my mom up, bring them back home,

go pick my girlfriend up, come back home, and then drive to the studio. I'm glad you're telling this story. I was the original. See, you just won the show. You just won. More chauffeur than usher. Wow.

Uber. Usher. He was the original Uber. Yo. I'm actually glad you said that because even as. As, at least I'm, even as the, as an established artist, at least in the eyes of people that don't know the industry, you're still blue collar with it. And you're still, like, your mom's still keeping a job.

She's not like, okay, I'm managing full time or none of that stuff. Wait, is Brooke still in the picture? Brooke is no longer in the picture. I now am, I'm just working on an album, so I really need a manager. My mother, she basically, you know, helped me find an attorney that then kind of handled my business or whatever per album to album. And, you know, just kind of focused on once again getting that album done. Can you describe Brooke as a person because for those that don't know, you know, thank God the New Edition movie went down. And I love the way, like he was my favorite character in the new edition movie only because of,

of at least the lesson that he taught New Edition was just basically, I'm going to teach you how to be professional. I'm not going to make you stars, but I will teach you how to be professional. He's like that uncle, or that granddad, that makes you scared because you don't know what the fuck he's thinking. Good.

And you're like, I just don't want him to be disappointed in me. No, he, look, dude, I spoke to him about that whole process, and he, like, confirmed that he, he was like not exactly the black version of what's his name in Whiplash

but he did he believed I know that Brooke told me that he he said too much praise is almost damaging to an artist because that'll make them laxed and it's weird that I'm not saying that slave mentality like the like to keep

the workers and in a place keep them yeah but I mean but it keeps it makes them work harder. And, you know, next to like Charlie Atkins, I consider Brooke Payne one of the greatest proprietors of, yeah, proprietors of just that spirit of, like, when he's working with you, is he strictly just a manager

from a manager center? Or is he working with you on your dance moves? At that time, he wasn't working on choreography anymore. Were you asking him to work with you? I'm always meeting people, you know, when they just stepping out of their space. I can't get a fucking record from Babyface in L.A. I can't get Brooke pain the goddamn Teach you one step. Teach me a step now.

I mean, he had wisdom or at least I hope he had wisdom. Yeah, he had, man, wisdom and beyond. But then you left after the first record. It wasn't that, no, I didn't leave him. What happened is New Edition, they got back together. Came back. Because that was the home again. And this is right before everything happened for me.

You know what I'm saying? I'm like, and he's like, you know. That was 96. You're like an orphan, man. I'm like, you can't leave, man. And he and Jeff Dyson was like, we got to go back and work on this project. I was like, well, maybe I can open up for y'all

or something like this. He's like, no, I got to give it my undivided attention as I would if it were you. So I was like, all right, you know what, I got to respect that. And if there's an opportunity for us to work again, and that's when my mother became my manager. Now, what is that like?

Because you're approaching adulthood. Like, is it easy? the Joe Jackson, Matthew Knowles of it all. Like, is it easy to separate the hats of the two when your mom's your manager? Like, is she traveling on the road with you as your manager's like? Yeah. So how hard is that? Because you're, I mean, you're becoming of age.

I'm a grown man in theory. Because I've always been the man. Yeah, you're driving people to work. So how? No, but in my mind, I'm also, too, I've elected. to be the provider of the family, even though my mother is the protector, right? And in many ways, I think that she kind of, she crippled me a little bit for a minute because my focus wasn't, had nothing to do with business, had everything to do with art.

And I thank her for that because I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have established the focus that I have now if I couldn't have just focused on music, music, music, music, dance, dance, performance, performance, performance. If I was always kind of trying to figure out who's trying to take money, where the money's coming from, I would have been petty. You know what I'm saying? I would have lost sight of what the goal was. And, you know, another thing, my mother never, my mother was never the extremely, you know, I can't do anything. I can't go anywhere.

She let me, I got into shit, you know what I'm saying? And she understood. That's just things. that's what men do. Boys do that. You know what I'm saying? But if you're going to do it, do it in the safety of your house.

Be protected, you know what I'm saying? Like... Okay. Yeah. Wow. I'm trying not to go there. You went there. We're here now.

Home? Pull up. Trail. We're here. I mean, Don't make me go there. I've seen you running down the steps of the good. Yeah, please.

No. Arkelly. Not right now. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve, to be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield.

And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Okay, so when you finish the record and you're mastering and your sequencing, right. At this point, are you like, okay, this is it. I'm gonna show everyone that I'm the shit or...

Nah, it's just the work. Ain't even about to accolade. At that point, I just want to work. I want to get back on the road. I want to get back out there and perform. I want to continue to grow. You know what I'm saying? It's like it ain't got nothing to do with showing nobody up.

I'm better than anybody. But it's like, no, it's not over for me. And I'm going to keep working because I got more to do. I still haven't fulfilled what I saw when I was eight. Well, MTV like grasped on to you like crazy because, I mean, everything, every video that I know of was played ungodly during that point. And I think by this point, you're, is this the, well, no, no, is this the Mary Usher tour? Was that doing that period?

No, that was that. That was 87.1. Okay. So what is the, what is your live show like now? Yeah, my way was like, I had a little bit of Philly with me. I had, you know, let me see. That's when I brought, there was a little bit of Detroit. You remember, you know, Kern and Vodas, Brintley, they out of Detroit.

That's who played with Mary. current current was uh EP for I mean um was MD for um wait do they work with the the dream as well I'm not sure if they do or not okay I'm trying to get to figure out who else they work with okay but anyway so I had a band and I was comfortable with performing with a band um now are you like you are now like you're aware and you know what you want to convey like who's conveying your ideas he and me that's it is he and me and is he listening to you Yep. And we won.

Sort of like in a way I don't listen to you. And we won. So what are you trying to, what are you trying to convey as an artist by this time period? Like what are you? At this point, I'm trying to live out everything that goes with this album. Because this is the first time that I've actually made songs that are relative to my life. What I've gone through.

what I've experienced. So now I'm trying to recapture those moments, that, you know, that idea. It's a little bit, it's a little bit country, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, I had to deal with what I had access to. But, you know, when I came on stage, I had a tribute to Bobby that I did every night. Now, you, you, do you have a close relationship to Bobby Brown? Or was it like, oh, you're my idol. Hey, nice kid.

Like the nino-cum green commercial. Yeah, yeah. Hey, kid. No, we cool. We cool now. You know, that was a moment where we weren't cool. And it was because he was really, he was really just like, he was on the drugs, man. It was just too much.

But, okay, so what I'm saying is, is we had a falling out. So he tried to fight me in the club. And it was, yeah, yeah. And I was thinking, I was going to ask you, was that you feel threatened? You think he felt a threat. No, I wouldn't a threat, though. I think it was just the drugs. It's just, you know what I'm saying?

Sometimes, you know, shit just happened. Okay. Well, how do you feel about meeting your artist? Because I have, my fear is like, never meet your idols. Never meet them. Because they're- I was crushed. I was crushed.

And I think that he just read me wrong. I never forgets him. He showed up to this birthday party that I had in Los Angeles. And I introduced him. That's the first time you're meeting? No, I knew him when I was a kid. Because of AJ Alexander. So he, I spent time in his house.

I spent time at Boss Town. He cooked for you? No, no, no. No. For the record, Bobby Brown is like one of the best cooks of all time. All right, back to the show. Go ahead. So now, I knew him, you know what I'm saying?

I drove, driven in cars with him. All kind of stuff, I was kicking it with him. You know what I was saying? And when I got signed to LaFace Records, you know, I was always like a part of the crew. I was a part of the, you know, B-town crew. And plus his kid, Hakeem, his nephew, he went to school with me.

So I would always kind of be around with them. But anyway, I had a birthday party. And he was in the house, you know what I'm saying? So I got on the mic and I was like, ladies and gentlemen, I want to introduce you to the original King of R&B. I said the original king of R&B and respect.

And at the time... He found sarcasm. I think he thought I was trying. And it was out there... Sounds like, you the original, but I'm the new king. Right. Gotcha. So he pulled me in, he was like,

what's like that little nigga? He said, for real? He didn't get... He was like, don't get fucked up or something. I was like, oh, hold up, man. Like, for real like that. So, you know what I... Yikes.

I kind of like just, and then he kind of squared up with me, and then they jumped in between. It was crazy, man, and I'm looking at him like. But I idolized you. You're my idol, like, for real? So, you know. Does he remember that? I don't think you remember that. I was celebrating.

And my mother and then they try to pull me out of the place, and he like, fuck that. He's like, he's going off on me. And I'm like, it's me. Bobby, it's me. Like, come on. man. And what year is this? What year is this?

What year is this? August 7th. I think this was... This was after my way. Yeah, it had to been at least two years after my way, so I predict it's August 7th, 1990. Yeah, it was after my way.

It was after Candy Girl, too, right? Can't. Like, you, can't. Decades. Camp you, you. Wow. You could join us. Yeah.

So with that record, my weight happens and then you do the live record, how did you know, like when did you know, because you said that you make me want or was the last one you did? Did you know that that one was the hit? It was like, okay, this is the one, or did that just happen later?

It just happened, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know, for me, it was never about a hit record. It was about getting back to the stage. That's it. You would get back to two of them? I need to get back to the stage. That was it. Gotcha.

Rather, it was a hit record. or not, you know, L.A. Reed, he had a job. You know, K.P., they had a job to bring me the best records and help, you know, kind of tell my story. Because they knew that I really weren't allowing just anybody to just kind of write, you know what I mean? Like, we got in the studio, we've got to work on it.

But let me ask, I mean, before my, before you make me want to, when you're listening to the album in progress, what's L.A. Reed saying? We just need that one, that one, that last record. So even with nice and slow and my way, stuff that was established.

hits. So now we wanted to come out with my way. We wanted to come out with nice and slow. My way wasn't even on the chart. You wanted nice and slow first? I wanted nice and slow first. Damn, okay. So he was like, nah, you got to have an uptempo. So JD, he produced his beat and I just rode with the beat, row with the beat, roll with the beat. You know what I'm saying? Because I can

at that point, I was like, I'm alright. You know what I'm saying? Because it just take him, it just take him a minute to get to it. And he was going through some shit. I was going through some shit in a relationship. We were talking it up. And then one day, at 3 o'clock in the morning, he hit me up and I came over

and the rest of his history. That's dope. After that record, when you went into 8701, that was the episode 1, that was the episode of the one. How did the Neptunes come into the picture?

For, I think, so I had seen Forrell. A lady by the name of Candy Tooks, she introduced me to Farrell when he back, when they were on Future, I think is the name of it, when they were with.

With Teddy Riley? With Teddy Riley. Oh, the future record. So they were, they were, they was like studio producers, you know what I'm saying?

And I met them, but there was no connection. I actually worked on a couple of songs. Yeah, I think it was my, I think it was before my way. And I had seen him, but I didn't necessarily

met the connection. So KP, he began to, you know, he came in with these records. And I was like, okay, you know, let's try to get in with them. Let's try to,

you know, whatever. He was like, I think I got, I got something. And I think it was, I don't know, I don't know if, I'm not sure if Fronten was out, was out and now, but he was trying as hard as to get that record. Oh, wow.

He's trying as hard as to get that record. Yeah. Yo, you know, because it was one, I think, I think it was for 87-on-1 that didn't make it. Wifey? Sweet lies. Oh, no. I'm thinking of lies.

Yeah. There's like 10. I love two songs. Yeah. Yeah. I still love that fucking song. Yeah, man. Was it, is it, was it, was it, was it any truth that you don't have to call?

was originally for Mike or was that just, is that fan fiction? That I don't know. All I know is when I got it, L.A. went crazy and he was like, you got to cut this record. And I was like, all right, I cut it. No problem. And that was the beginning. Are you easily, the thing is because the the folklore of the Neptunes, especially when they're in glory in their glory period, everybody wanted the Neptunes cut. But

you know, initially hearing the Neptune, it was a hard pill for me to swallow. No, it was a hard pill for me to swallow too. I think the first beat I heard was I can't make a mistake. I can't make him an mistake. I mean, I knew, nah, but that wasn't like in hindsight. It was, but it wasn't. I can't make the mistake was the first Neptune sounding song and I was like, okay.

My first one was a mace. They were looking at me. You're right. Okay. I was like, what in the hell is it? And it's real sparse, you know, like it's weird because for all the, For the folklore of how it took music listeners a minute to accept and digest when doves cry, like you'll hear people in hindsight speak of like,

Warner Brothers was upset that Prince took the baseline out of it. I mean, when doves cry didn't feel that foreign to me. But yet when I heard the Neptune stuff, I was just like, something's missing. I don't know what it is. It's like a lot of drums and the sounds they were using and like the stock set keyboard sounds. Yeah, it was just like, I mean, between them and Swiss, like the air of the keyboard beats. It sounds like demos. So yes.

Like how. Hit demo on the cassio. It's like, that's it. So how are they convincing you, yo, this is the shit? They didn't. I got it from KP. So I was using KP's ears. And when you don't have the call came on, it was hard.

That beat was, cock, cac, after the night. So they played it loud for you? Don't, man, that shit was hard. Another thing, Ferell is world famous for how he sells you a song? No, he didn't, he wasn't there. K.P. played the record. I didn't meet them until after in the studio. And then that's when they were like,

yo, we met you before. We met you back with Candy, too. So who was singing the lyrics on the original demo before you got it? He did. For real, seen it. It was real, like, straight. Really? Situations will arise in our life, but you got to be smart about it.

It was real simple. Was that around the same time? It was another record. It was Sweet Lies Certified. No, Certify happened after that. Okay, that was that. Okay, okay. I give you 300%.

Now, that was back when he started working with Robin Thick. because Robin and him worked on that record and me and Robin had always been like this because I met him I was back when I was like interviewing people and shit on MTV and I interviewed and introduced him to the world I was like

Long hair Robin He's had long he looked like Jesus Hippy Robbins I was like man you look like Jesus What they told me he looked like Yeah man So Well also

We should Note that 87 on 1 also contains the most unlikely departure sound of Jam and Lewis. I was about to say, yeah, what, uh, you remind me? Yeah, you remind me. Yeah, because I almost feel like you remind me starts the period of them. I call it witness protection jamming Lewis.

I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you know. No, no, no, no. Let me go back. Y'all get this all wrong. Because Terry is just, I was going to ask you. You're getting this all wrong. You're getting this all wrong.

You're getting this all wrong. I got to stop you. School is, bro. Okay, so a guy by the name of Butter is who produced You Remind Me. And he wrote it with his sister. So he wrote it with his sister and mine. And I got that record. Wait, say it again?

Yeah, this is one Mark. This is one Mark Pitt. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. You didn't write it for his sister. Come on, man. I thought that too. It's okay.

I'm not why here. I'm sorry. Incest on another level. No. Oh, boss bill, want to smack the black. off me right now. Go ahead. Tell you. But it wasn't necessarily it was his production from the aspect of

producing my vocals and also to kind of leading the record. But the record was pretty much what it was. I just was so comfortable working with him as a vocal producer that I wanted him to be a part of that song. Okay. Yeah, so that's the truth about the record. Butter is the original producer of that record.

Wow. There was an album before 87-1 that got scrapped because I guess it got leaked on the internet, how much of that actually wound up on 8701 and how much of it, the rest of it's just kind of following. 8701. Because there was a single, it was a Poppy Collar that came out and then.

It was back when you could actually put out a record and then just scrap an entire album, right? Right, right, right. So that was a single that came out. 87-0-1, right? So I had worked on a gang of songs. I worked on... I didn't know that Poppy Collar was an official. It was official. It was official. This is back when you could send a record overseas, you know what I'm saying?

And that was the day, and then they worked it from overseas and you just kind of got off of it in America. So it came out here in America and they just deaded it real quick. And it became a record. It's huge overseas. It's crazy whenever I play their record, how they go crazy. I'm like, I hate this song. Really? Yeah.

I mean, I love it for the idea of what it represents in my career. But I'm like, I don't want to sing this song ever. Are there any other songs like that You just don't want to do anything more? Not really. I mean, I'm cool, but I mean, there's certain things that I have tried that works and I'm like,

why the fuck did this song work? Because now I've got to perform it forever. You know what I'm saying? It was a short-lived term, pop your call it, it felt like it didn't last long enough. Yeah, people didn't want to hear that. They didn't want to hear that one here. I was going to ask you to talk about songs

that you never want to perform again. And I was looking crazy. It's yet one of those songs. No. It's not. No, no, no. You know, and you'll be happy to hear this.

You know, I love that record. I think that's the one record that I'm like... You do? Yeah, I love it. Okay. I love it. It's cool. I heard a story that apparently it was similar to, I guess, what you make you want to

where y'all had finished confessions and that was the last one and you felt it didn't fit the record. Yeah, ain't have shit to do with that whole album. But they was like, this is a hit. Fuck it. Like, you got to keep this shit. Well, they brought it. me the record. It was Shakir and L.A. Reed at the time. Yeah. And they were working with

Sean Garrett at the time. So they bring me the record and I'm like, yo, this record don't sound shit like my record. And I spent an entire however long it took six, seven months working on this album and you want me to just throw this song on there. And he was like, yeah, it's a hit. I'm like, so I took the record and I played it for KP. I was like, yo man, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't want to do this song. I said, but tell me what you think I should do. He was like, man, you crazy. He said, you crazy if you don't cut this record.

I said, you think so? He's like, yeah, man, you should cut this record. It's a hit. It's a smash. I was like, but it doesn't it sound like he's trying to be Michael Jackson. You know what I'm saying? And he's like, don't. He's like, he's like you.

So who did the demo vocal? Who was singing on it? Sean was singing. Oh, Sean was singing. He was killing me, dude. But I mean, we're skipping records, but I will say that when I listen to confessions, Well, I mean, I'm skipping singles.

I still get mad 8701 questions I still do. But I'm just saying that the way that I hear confessions, yeah to me is almost like the movie preview. Like in my mind, the album still starts with throwback. Yeah, yeah. So just like, okay, you put a little preview at the top. Kind of like Snoop's record. The doggy style.

With rage starting off. Yeah, like, there's a little preview what you're going to get And then it really starts with Jen and Juice. That's how I always felt that year was. The sequencing on it was perfect, right? Because it didn't make sense in theory to have a song like that that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. And I was so, like, theme-oriented,

because I kind of got into, like, I really want to say this. Like, I want us to talk about real hard shit. Like, let's talk about all this shit that nobody will talk about. It was Eminem. I was listening to his albums and listening to his records. And I'm like, you know, how is it that he can take the liberty to just say whatever the fuck

you want to say on the record? And it worked. I was like, I want to do that. And I was listening to a lot of guess. I got one guess, but. So then I was listening to country music too. And I'm like, yeah, it's honesty in country music. Stories they tell.

They honest. So let's tell stories. I was like, let's just sit around all five of us and let's just talk about all of the shit that has happened to us. And we was all just putting shit in the pot and it was like, that's a song. This is a song.

All right, then we're going to do this. We say this. And then, you know, and a lot of it was shared, you know what I'm saying? Because a lot of them stories weren't necessarily mine. Yeah, I was going to ask you. I'll talk about Jontay Austin, man, like him as a writer. So Jontay, as an artist, we worked together when I was younger. And, you know, kind of making that round circle back.

And, you know, just finding our way, you know, through whatever it was, rather it was a contribution as a motivation. or either vocal production or whatever it may have been, we really didn't make our connection until here I stand. It was on Here I Stand that we really, like, he did this song for me

called Something Special that, I mean, it might not be a hit, but it really is something special. Like, you got to go back and listen to that album. Like, people, people... I don't want to skip, but... Yeah. So let's go to this Rootsberghack.

No, no, no, right. Just give to the ear shit. No, no. Well, two things. One, listen to you, like, describe this stuff. I'm now realizing most of my favorite Usher songs are always the jams that, like, were not singles. So, like, my favorite jam of Confessions is Follow Me.

Yep. Like, that's the fucking one. Yeah. I mean, I mean, the other songs, I mean, it's got to shit on that. So follow me is, um. That's a mark of a true artist, though. Like, yeah. It's never the hits.

It's the, it's the, filler that defines the jam. It was so strategic, you know what I'm saying? LA was a master at that shit. Rather it was in Atlanta or rather it was pulling a little bit of... So is he a good record, man? He's the greatest record man. And is it because...

But you're also on Arista records. So do you have any relationship to Clive Davis whatsoever? At that time? I mean, period. I mean, you were on Arista that entire time. But I was L.A. Reed's artists. You know what I'm saying? So there's not a point where he's trying to remove...

LA and he like here's the greatest reality that was the greatest moment and the worst moment that could ever happen to LA Reed because why because LA Reid's ambition was to come to New York and to leave the legacy of what Atlanta had created and while there was some there was some great shit that happened in it I think that that legacy belonged to him and I think that he should have never left Atlanta because Atlanta lost everything when it lost LA Reed it gained a lot in terms of confidence because Atlanta ain't ever ever lacked in confidence in being able to kind of be instillated by its own world. And it's just this this inflated sense of delusion that comes from that place that makes whatever you say the shit. And you believe it.

You know what I'm saying? Well, being as though he believed in you from the very beginning, like, what is your relationship with him like? Is he the Barry Gordy father figure that you kind of didn't have or like, or is he just the suit? It really all depends on

what day, you know what I'm saying? But he's, but he's, when he's mad at you, like, what is it? He's never really mad at me, you know what I'm saying? I don't really give you a reason to be upset with me and then hold on to it. You know what I'm saying? I just seen him in a spin class in Los Angeles. He sat next to me. I was bustling his ass. But, um, you know, we've, we have a real odd relationship because, you know, in his transition, um, I've always wanted to be supportive of him. And I've always listened him up because I believe in supporting, you know, black executives and also to being supporters.

Now, I had a deal. This is a crazy issue. This is how much I believe in supporting black, like, business and also to black entrepreneurs. So I had a deal with Clive Davis. Like, I actually formed my own relationship with Clive. And he actually supported a lot of my business, a lot of my business venture.

You know, I wanted to have a record label. Of course, I mean, who wouldn't give me a record label with all the money that I made for him? You know what I'm saying? But the point was, he he probably should have been the person to have collected or either been the recipient of Justin Bieber. But I took him. Yes, you did.

To L.A. Reed because the legacy of what that represents needed to stay intact. You know what I'm saying? Wow. So, but greater than that, it's like, I just think he should have never left Atlanta, man. You know, and I know it's hard because Atlanta's, you know, if you look back at it, now it's like damn well i want to be able to do more so i got to go to la i got to move other places yeah but he had it confession's the last thing he worked on that was the last record he worked on it should be noted that um confessions also represents to me probably the last product

that people purchased the last blockbuster yeah because i mean at this what was the final numbers like 11 million? It was like 20. Okay, okay, okay. I know in hindsight it probably sold 11, 12 million but in the States. Right.

Nigger. Talk to. Are you not talking about it? Are you stunting for my own? All right, listen. I'm pretty 10 to grand. Okay, okay. I'm just saying

that at the time when confessions is out in, you know, on wax, what, 2003, 2004? You know, there was a nine next to that triangle in Billboard, which, you know, after that period, after 2004, it's a rap. Like, people are now, like,

the internet is, or with Spotify. Spotify, you know. Napster. I think maybe it was Nelly and me. That was it. That was the last two. But did you expect

for you to be the final, that final, that final, final, like in the final tornado of what we know as the music business, the old music business, like you're the, you're the period at the end of that sentence. No, straight up. I think that all things, right, are inevitably going to come to an end. Nothing is going to last forever. And I think that record companies really did take for granted the, uh, the potency of what

was getting ready to happen. I think they looked at it as, all right, we'll get you these free goods because it just gives us an opportunity to exploit and promote our product. But they didn't realize that, you know, and they, this was crazy. I can remember the time when they were taking the meetings to go to Arista and other record companies to try to partner with them. Get in front of it. They wanted to partner with them. And they were like, nah, we don't want to partner with you. We have our own solution.

We know, we're going to continue to create content. You guys just do your thing. You know, it's just a little server. what you got, whatever, it's done. It's going to die. Right. 15 years later. It's like now it's done.

Okay. So now that. How did it feel to be the last? That's the question you ask, right? Well, not that, but like at the rate where it's like, okay, it was $7 million, now it's $9 million. Oh shit. Now it's $11. Oh, crap.

Now it's $13 million. What are you feeling? Pressure. Pressure to live back up to that. What is that like? The pressure of living up to that? Did you expect this album to sell 13 million? I didn't expect to sell 13 million, you know, but I, but I expected to, you know,

try to speak to the next chapter of what my life was because everything had been about creating the chapters of what it was, not to go back to what worked before, you know, and even that meant, you know, not working with some of the same producers, you know what I'm saying, and leaving the door open for a new opportunity, a new story. So when you have a record like that, one thing, I've always wanted to ask. Like, there's, you talk about the pressure. But is there a point where you just have just like, I guess, kind of common sense where it's just like, you know what? This is never going to happen again.

Like, kind of like, you know, we talk about Prince a lot where he had Purple Rain and he's performing for like a bunch of white audiences. And like, he's doing stadiums and, you know, all this shit. And he tells his band, like, listen, y'all just soak this up now. I'm a good hippie. Yeah, like, this shit is never going to happen again. Do you have that thought of like there's no way Artistically I may top this album But sales wise like who the fuck is going to sell 13 million albums twice

Yeah If there's anything in hindsight that I do wish Is that I would have exploited that moment a little bit more While I was happening How so? What would you have done? I mean just more business more I was trying my hardest To just kind of build a conglomerate around me You know and probably made some decisions

Being overly ambitious and losing people who were very, very important in the structure of who I was, but also, too, I was moving into a space where I began to care more about business. And I had a better understanding and comprehensive, you know, idea of how the industry was growing,

and I needed, like, my thinkers or people around me. And, you know, I just, but I would have, man, I can remember the last show. The last show for Confessions, I was on the truth tour. I had Kanye West opening up for me.

And I was in Puerto Rico. Okay. And I had this promoter. He was like, you got to come to South America. You've done Europe. You've done America. You know, you got to do Australia. You got to do South America.

You got to do Asia. And I was like, man, I'm really tired. Like, I really have bust my ass and I work hard. And I was having really, really bad back problems. So I was like, I gotta just, I gotta go sit down. And the day that I don't wish I would have fucking kept going. I'm like, shit. But I mean, and my numbers are good, you know what I'm saying?

But that moment and what that meant, you know, it was, it actually is my personality. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm never the guy who's going to rest in the success of the moment. I just can't do it. You know what I mean? I'm not, I'm never, I don't want to be complacent. I have become a little bit complacent. in times around, you know, the type of work and focus that I put around what I was doing

and used other aspects to just kind of, you know, do creative shit. But for the most part, I never, I can't just rest in a moment. I'm like, okay, so what's next? And like, wait a minute, let's exploit the shit out of this moment. In this moment. You know what I'm saying? Let's go build a fucking clothing line. We can choose clothes.

Confessions. Confessions. It's a fragrance. You know what I'm saying? Confessions by Calvin Clothing. Right. But wait, I mean, how much more could you exploit it? Because confession is six singles?

Seven singles? I mean, in terms of music, yeah. I mean, I wasn't going to create another album. But I could have never toured South America. Never. I have never toured. Still to this day? Still to this day.

A lot of money. Hey, Usher, guess what? Let's go to South America. Have you ever, so what are the continents that you haven't done? You haven't done Australia either still? Yeah, I've done Australia. Tons of time. And then you went to, I'm going to.

I mean, I know you went for your own, but have you done Africa at all? Yes, I did Africa. I did tour Africa. I'm not really toward Asia. What's your favorite places to travel? Like, as far as, like, you get excited to go, like, what's a good city? Like, for me, major cities suck. Major cities suck.

Well, in our... I know that sounds simple. The off cities, you can kind of get it off a little more. These are the best cities. You can experiment. I think the roots don't overthink it and we just have fun. There's something really incredible about Paris, man. Like, I really do enjoy Paris.

And once I got married, man, I begin to enjoy all the places that I go more. Because now I got a significant other that really does understand how to enjoy life and how to make sure that I and my kids enjoy life. So your family travels with you on the road now? Yeah, well, they did. They don't anymore. I actually haven't traveled in a long time, bro. Like, it's been a minute since I've been on tour.

And the last one that I went on, they were with me. Okay, okay. But, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, there's a handful of places. Like, and I'm really looking forward to going to Zanzibar. I love Africa. Let me see. Marrakesh. I really, I really enjoy it there.

Cuba. Cuba. Son. Cuba. Now, not later, right? No, always. I mean, even that. Cuba is the shit. I know, but I mean, like, now, not later, right? Yeah, now. Yeah. Right now. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations

with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast

to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear. hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. If you're just joining us, we're talking to Usher Raymond, the family man.

Who is yet to go to? No, I'm playing. I feel like, I would be remiss If remiss I'm sorry There's no T on remiss Boss Bill

It's all good bro We got you Yes I was remissed By Calvin That they said she missed me Put that pinky Put that pinky up

That bit said she missed me I left her again And I was remissed Okay That was fantastic Side-note about your spouse. Any time I'm in Gracie's presence, there's not 20 people that I'd run to and point

that your wife is Benita Applebum. Absolutely. She hates. Gracie used to be my product manager at Universal. She's going to fucking queue you, dude. Come on, dude. I mean, I feel. like it's a badge of honor as far as being

I mean so just playing hip hop footballer she was the one who inspired. Gracie is literally the yes she's literally the person who inspired Benita Apple Bonita Applebone. Wow. She has a lovely backside is she I don't want to go there man. Well as a woman I would just like to say I know you removed the pick but I saw the pick I appreciate the pick. She couldn't help her

I couldn't help it and wow. Neither can I but she obviously. She fucking killed me lying there. I know she did. I know she did, but tell her it's okay because it was artistic. It was artistic. It wasn't the full.

So what's crazy is that I got all that grief behind it. But, you know, it's okay. We appreciate it. Don't do it. I think, yeah, no, I'm not even playing the. Okay, it was yourself. No, but I'm like, no, I've worked with Gracie for the longest. And she's one of the, like, I think she's,

one of the best things to happen to you. I'm in love with my wife, too. We love your wife, too. It's like your best friend. Yeah, man, I'm in love with her. What did you learn from the first marriage going into the second marriage? And this is also the divorce clubs here,

so you're amongst. Yeah, brother. You're making the three. Every time. Yeah, we got to come on. What did I learn? I mean, pay attention to my next album. No, but I mean, it's like you can write a book on that shit.

You know what I'm saying? No, I heard Raymond versus Raymond. And, you know what I mean? Well, yeah. Can you get too confessional? No. What does Here My Dear mean to you as far as... Everything.

Everything. The honesty in the music is beautiful. I mean, it's the... It's the curator and the holder of our greatest emotions. You know what I'm saying? Both good and bad. You know what I'm saying? And there's a lot of people are hurting

and a lot of people that are looking for guidance in music. And we don't realize how much... Like, one simple... message, you know, nah, it might not sell a whole much of albums, but it could be one person's life that that shit just, you know, saves. Or one person that's just like trying to figure out, man,

should I do this? Should I be here? How should I be living my life? And that, you know, but, um, yeah, man, you can't, you can't overdo it at all. Be honest. Be truthful. You got to tell the truth.

When you talk about, you know, in papers, he was like, you know, I damn, they lost my mama. What did your mom think about? about your first wife? Did you get, and there's a reason I'm asking this. Did she give you the like, no, don't do this.

Like, what is she? Did she like there? I mean, we, much, it's, the funniest shit in the world is how we could go through all this shit, right? My mom, she, she wouldn't show up at my first wedding that I canceled.

She wouldn't show up at the second when she didn't fuck with my ex-wife. She didn't want to have nothing to do with her, but she didn't want to have something to do with the kids. Of course. And then they fuck up, and they fucking end up best friends. I'm like,

so your mom and the ex-wife are now cool. No, they're cool. I don't know if they're best. They got their own odd relationship. Oh, okay. I'll take it back. But they, but they, but they, but they, but they're friends from the, from the

perspective that she at least talks to her now and they actually are cool, which, which is helpful. I mean, some progress. I mean, that's a lot for her too, man. She like, she like, she like nails, you know what I'm saying? Your mom? Boy. Yeah.

It's funny. I always wonder who's harder. Like, your mom and she's, I love her for who she is. I absolutely. She's very protective of you? You wouldn't be. Your mom. Was she very protective?

Like, I mean. I'm a grown-ass man now. She can't really, you know. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. No better. But yeah, she's going to always be extremely protective of me. Probably two.

You know what I'm saying? Well, I know your pin game is, okay, not to play on the pun of confessional, but I'm sure by this period, at least between the period of here I stand, Raymond versus Raymond versus and the four albums that follow. just real quick, here I stand. I'm making, like, a big, these are big words. To me, that is his secret life of plans. Dog!

Yes, I agree. Yeah, like, that was, and so I wanted to hit on that a little bit because to me, that was a record, and this is just from outside. And unappreciated. Like, you, because you kind of did, like, you were doing like some EDM stuff. I think that was, I think before that you had a couple.

Is that when DJ? No, that was. It was afterwards. It was after that. It was, there was none of that. That record was pure. Right. If there's any album.

Did you rush it because my, when I first got, I think I got service with the white label. I don't know if this ain't sex or, I got service with the white label. This ain't sex was on it. Right. And then that guy can't. It's not that I rushed it. It's like they had an idea. And you get right first, correct?

Yeah. They understood what it was. worked, I was being honest in where I was. So not being considerate of what I knew would work, I went with what I knew was real. So, I mean, that's a compromise. And yeah, it didn't sell as many albums, but it's the most truthful album that I think I have in terms of a cohesive thought from top to bottom. It's honest. It's like, and it's probably my vulnerable. It's my most vulnerable. The title track is a mother.

Yeah. Yeah, man. That's the one when you were talking about songs and lyrics moving people. I thought about here I stay in. So was that your therapy in terms of... It wasn't cool to have a wife.

You know what I'm saying? And at that time, and I was like, but I do. And if you don't fuck with that, then that's cool. You know what I'm saying? But eventually you're going to get it. You're going to get that party. Because you can't party forever.

You're going to eventually have to go home and you want to go home with somebody that you want to be with. The ladies got it. Yeah. Because they wanted it. Well, some of them. And then some of them just was like, I don't want you to be married. Usher, especially to her.

But I want somebody to marry me, though. Yeah. And, you know, the reality of it that, you know, that marriage and that relationship, you know, was going to come to an inner world was. But it served its purpose in my life. And I think I became appreciative of that, you know what I'm saying? And no matter what my mother was attempting to tell me, and a lot of people were trying to tell me about that.

I think a lot of it had to do with my lack there of a father. You know what I'm saying? Like when I got into the idea of what I didn't want to be, I did not want to be a person who would just, you know what I'm saying? Just roll out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, anybody could do that. But, you know, and I tried, you know what I'm saying?

I tried everything that I could before I decided to, you know, throwing a towel. I mean, should I even try it afterwards? Probably broke a lot of girls' heart still fucking around. But, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, it's, it, yeah, it was. It was a phase that needed to happen. Part of the evolution.

It was a part of the evolution. And then in that, I began to understand what I really wanted. And the kind of partner that I needed and the kind of support that I needed for my life, she showed up. Showed it when I wasn't even looking to. You ain't even asked for her? I pray. This is the, here's the reality. You know, I was going through a lot.

You know what I was like? It was at the point where I was like living out of my office. Like I ain't never want to go home. I just wanted to just like just be there. You know what I'm saying? And didn't want to go home because what? You just didn't want to face that like being alone or? It was just I just, I didn't want to, yeah.

I didn't, no, I didn't want to be there. I just did not want to be at the crib by myself. I just was fucked up, man. So your workaholic that. No, I wouldn't even. I wouldn't even. I wouldn't even working at that time. I was like, I'm just in office.

I'm just being in office. By the time Raymond versus Raymond was out. So. yeah but then you know after i got a divorce it was like man like i put it all on the line you know what saying and and this is the right thing to do i did it for all the right reason i went trying to get like some odd respect for what i was doing i was just doing what was honest and what was about the art and i begin to understand the idea of the art at that moment um but i didn't i didn't want it you know what I didn't want to face none of it because I felt like, I don't know, man.

I felt like shit, I just put my neck out there way too much. It didn't work. We didn't jail. It's really, really public, yeah. It was really, really public, you know what I'm saying? And it was what it was. But anyway, I tell me my story. So my grandmother was like, you know, you should just, you should pray.

I was like, what I pray for? She was like, I want you to pray for grace. And I was like, okay, I'm going to just pray for grace because this moment is just hard to get through this, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just, it's a lot. And I pray and she showed up. I don't have a good sound effect for that. Aw.

That's all I got. Loaded. I can't, yeah, I can't. Oh, God. I got why they don't make a sound. Well, here you go. R. Kelly. Well, you.

My raps will destroy you. You mentioned him earlier, but, you know, I feel as though the significance of you being behind one of pop music's biggest stars and the route that you took him. Bieber Velley. I mean, not since Mari's star taking new kids on the block and orchestrating their career. How did you manage to gain the trust? of the beavers and have them listen to you and for you to take them.

Because, you know, sometimes when you get an artist, it doesn't necessarily, you know, work out as planned. Like if you could look at all the artists that have, oh, I have a new protege and you're going to, you know, sometimes it just doesn't work. And there was a war from what we heard between you and Justin Timberlake to where is he going to go?

Where is he going to go, right? Yeah. Wait, Timberlake was in the picture. There's a lot of people who... I did not know this. There were a lot of people who had interest in Justin. I think that, you know, Scooter, you know, once he found Justin online, he began to kind shop him around Atlanta, you know, because he wanted to get with a specific type of artist

from Atlanta. He wanted to have, like, some credibility. And I was at the top of the list, but he and I were at odds. He and I, we had had some... You and Scooter, you and Justin. Me and Scooter. I ain't no Justin yet. Okay.

So he and I were at odds, but there was a conversation about this kid that Scootoo was shopping around. You know, they say, success has a million fathers. There ain't enough people that I could think, you know, who are. Right, and failures in orphan. It's not enough people. I never heard of that idiom in my life. Oh. Success has a million fathers and failures in an orphan.

This is literally the first time I ever heard that term. Yeah. Quis Loves Supreme on Bindor. Wow. You got a sound effect for that? No, no. Someone failed. I feel like someone failed me, but not giving me that.

Jeload it. Yeah. I learned on Questlis Supreme. So wait, what is it one more time? Successes as many fathers and failures and orphan. Okay. I'll marinate on that. No, but, you know, he and I really didn't, we weren't seeing eye to eye.

And it was over some, it was like $15,000 of some stupid shit like that. It happened back in the day when he was promoting clubs. clubs. So you had a relationship with Scooter before? I had a relationship with Scooter way before. Oh, what was he? Like who? He worked with Jermaine Dupree. And he also to work with Ludacris. And go back

and look at Luskis. So he's from Atlanta? He was in Atlanta. I think he was at Emory at the time. I've only heard of Scooter once Justin came on the scene, so I didn't realize that he existed as a business person before, you know. Yep. But he was actually managing an artist by the name Asher Roth at the time.

So. I love college. Pennsylvania. But still, I claim him. So he introduced Asher Roth, and he had this kid that he was interested in, but he didn't really know what to do with him. So he was, you know, kind of shopping him around. He had Justin interested in him.

You know, they were trying to get the kid. And he was like, but I really want to, you know, I really want to fuck with Usher. So I think that it was Terrence Carter, who was my role manager at the time. My homeboy was with me, Keith Thomas. Sherry Hughley or Sherry Riley now. By the way, incredible book, Exponential Life. She just introduced that book. I wrote The Ford and it.

So y'all, y'all check that out. But exponential life. Anyway, no, exponential living, my bad. So anyway, all of these people are like, you need to meet this kid. And I'm like, well, who is he? They're like, you know, he's just a special kid and everybody's trying to get at him.

He's, you know, he's a little white kid the school guy and everybody loves him. I'm like, all right, man, look. I said, you know, I'm cool, man. I'm just, I don't want to be in business with dude because I'm just, you know, we, we just had words. We almost came to blows one time because we just kind of, we were angry at each other. So, I decided that I was going to, no, I was going to studio.

And this little kid comes out of the studio at JD Studio. And I'm like, okay, what's something? Like, hi, I'm the kid they've been telling you about I'm Justin Bieber. I'm like, well, nice to meet you. Justin, he said, can I sing for you? I was like, no, you can't. See, that's how it always and should work. Yeah.

So I said, no, I said, but what I will do is I'll reach out to your manager and make some time maybe to meet you sometime. Cool? He's like, yeah. I said, if it's meant to happen, then I'll see you again. He was like, okay, cool. So I went in the studio and- Did you have intent on really seeing him again? No.

Yo, that's real, yo I didn't That's real as shit I didn't because I still was like You know, I don't want to I don't even want to invest in it But it was two things Do you believe in that?

No, it wasn't that I didn't plan on Seeing him again I didn't plan on rushing to hit To call scooter Because I seen him and I saw it I was like I was like No, this kid got something

So I was like, but I'm good So I went in the studio and I was like, you know, it was that kid. And it was like, oh man, that's some artist the scooter guy. I was like, y'all going to do anything with that kid? And they were like, nah, man, just, I was like, cool. So then I walked out after my session and I played because I then looked at once I saw the kid, I went and looked them online. I was like, oh, this kid, he got something.

So then I called my homie. I was like, yeah, me, y'all were right. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I went home, showed it to my wife at the time, and Perry Reid was there. And she was like... Pebbles. Pebbles.

She was like, are you crazy? Have you lost your mind? I was like, I don't really fuck with him like that. You know what I'm saying? I don't even want to get into business because it's going to be. She's like, if you don't sign this artist, you are the stupidest person ever. Are you crazy? So I was like, for real, she's like, yeah.

I get it. She says, yeah, you can get past all that. You should get past all that for this artist because he needs you. So I then reached out the scooter. He was like, all right, cool. We had to fly his mom, him and his mom back down to Atlanta. He came to my studio the next day. He sang for me.

And I was like, you know, let's take a picture because this is a real part of history. It was intended for it to happen. Then it would happen, right? He was like, yeah, cool. So that night I was like, listen, there ain't nobody else that you can have this artist to work with this artist with. I'm the guy, period. you know if you it's like well i got justin interested they put you know put something

a day i said i'm not going to put nothing on the table i say it's on you to make the right decision but be clear there can only be one justin oh damn no dead ass though straight up 100%

shade wait can I ask but no that's real and I'm I'm literally going against my rules of this show to not be a sensation and gossipy. But I never asked, like, what is your standing with your contemporaries? Like, I'm just saying with us, it's like, okay, I'm down with common.

I'm down with most and, you know, my contemporaries. Like, are you beefing with Chris Brown? I got beefing with no. How could I beat me? No, he's been. It was a joke. Yeah, I was about to say. I mean, come on.

Like, who else is singing and dancing like, Usher? No, I just meant, like, I don't know what you're related. I've never seen you and Justin go to the movies together. Listen, so there's always those stories, those things that people say, well, damn, I wish that had been smarter, been at the right time, not passed up on this artist, not do this thing, not do that, right? So there's one thing in my career that I definitely regret. One thing.

And to this day, I battle with it, which is why I always show support for this artist. Whenever he asks, and I've always kind of like, it ended up being more of a relationship. There's a reason why I'm drawing it out like. this anyway. But um, the roots. No. So um, Mark Pitts comes to me and he's like, I got this artist. And I'm like, well, you know, I'm just really focused on myself. And he's like, I know that, but I got this artist that I really think you should see. And I want him to be your first artist. So I'm like, all right, well, let me see him. So his manager comes in. They, have them, you know, can they show them to me?

I meet him. I was doing this album at the time. They wanted him to perform on this album. I was like, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. But I just, I didn't get it. It wasn't that I didn't get it. I was a bit like, I'm going to be honest. I was intimidated.

Let me get the sound like. Hold on, listen. I was intimidated by what it meant to move to the place of mentoring artists and not be the other. artist. So I felt like I don't want to fuck that up and I don't want to stop what I think I'm doing right now and do it too

early. It was a mature thing but not clear. You know what I'm saying? And then I went to my team and I was like I really want to work with this arts and they was like, I don't think you should do it. I don't think you should work with this artist. And then he left.

Wait. Wait. Wait. Whoa. All right, I got my sound effect ready. Who? Chris Brown. Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's...

Wait, he's Marks' artist? He was a Mark Pitt's artist at the time. But I just think... It's like when I think about all of the things... If you had a chance to... Do you even think you would have had an impact? I'm just trying to tell you if... Yeah.

Well, that makes sense because Chris Brown really was like the next in the lineage of Bobby Brown. He was Bobby Bage. So it's like... He's the next. No, that would make this. You had that one in the chamber. No, it makes sense why they would reach out to you to, I get it.

Wow. But I passed, man. So if, so had you. Well, okay. Now, in hindsight, do you feel you were why? Because here's the thing. I think that every artist has something to go through, all right? Because if you even look at the success of what Justin is, right?

I was just saying they like, because they, they went to. through similar shit, but the reality is having the right people around, having the right support, that changes the dynamic of how it pans out. You're an anomaly, though, because I just... Really? It does, but it's one more factor. I don't believe...

I mean, I don't believe an artist being... I don't believe an artist being their own managers. And I know there's a grip... I know there's a grip of artists that are in my inbox, in my DM on Twitter, and all over. There's a ton of shit that I was.

Dude, I was in the four things in my life, and I got lucky with it. And I'm not saying I'm responsible for Jill or whatever, but it's like, Jill's Slum Village, Bilau. I don't, maybe there's one, Cody, I guess. But I've made a life of avoiding that moment. Why are you smiling? I'm smiling at Bill. Please don't look at me. Why are you smiling?

You were just like, I guess. Yeah, because Cody was a real person. We were just like, yes, Cody. Well, no, no. I mean, I don't know what the level of security. It's intimidating to get out of the comfort zone of where you are and begin to, have the responsibility of other people, man. It's a lot, man.

It's a lot. I just think artists make horrible business. Like, you're either going to be a business person or you're going to be an artist. And listen, off the heels of having three artists that didn't necessarily fly. You know what I'm saying? You know, I was, I had a label. The previous three. It was an artist by the name of Melinda Santiago, a group by the name of One Chance and Rico Love.

Those were my first three artists. Rico Love. That's right. I said, I knew that. Fonte knows. And that ended up panning out to be a great investment because I felt something different in him. I was like, I just think that you were an incredible writer.

And this is not a discredit to who you are, but you really do know your way around melodies and you know your way around storytelling. So you should be a writer. He was like... Instead of artists. It's like, let's just, let's focus on, so I went got him a publishing deal and, you know.

Hey? Yep. Okay. So that's why I feel Like had you taken on Chris Do you think he would have listened to you? Yep I do

You know Prince actually went on record to You know in lieu of his death He kind of Sort of went public and saying that he really wanted to mentor Chris Brown And You know But I don't know

I don't think Prince would have, I don't think Prince would listen to Prince. That's too, that's too far. I just feel like there's a difference between generations and the post can't tell me nothing. No, totally. Syndrome would have, would have, would have come into play. I think us would have been like his Bobby Brown. I mean, like that would have been, you know, it was around. I still think I am, man.

Yeah, but I think Bobby Brown was the aggress in the situation where I think that. It ain't a matter of. was I still am and that's why I'm consistent and I am a great friend of his even through the complication and all of the shit so do you mentor him now I mean as much as he'll allow him like who are you close to now that you're not connected to business-wise that they you know you're there one a.m. like yo man like I need some advice on some like who I mean it could be there's a ton of like business people and uh young entrepreneurs. entrepreneurs, people whom I just make myself available for.

Here's the reality, right? If we really want to begin to remedy some of the issues that we have, we got to be more disciplined ourselves to be people who share our information. I had this conversation with everybody, and I ain't talking about just mentoring people in your company or because it's a company duty and responsibility to do that shit. No, find people to mentor and talk to them, bring them together, create groups, talk to them as a collective because you got insight and offer that. You know what I'm saying?

I'm really tired of the reality of what we are and how behind we are. And the fact that we don't allow ourselves to come together because we just don't come together. We're not community. We're not community oriented. We don't share. We think that it's better to continue to climb individually and not as a collective. Okay. I think now I will insert the modern-day ATL question that I was kind of

even as a snowball earlier. But the climate that is Atlanta now. Right. Which very, very active. Almost at its

at least it's commercial peak. Okay. I don't know about creative peak. Of course, that could be ageism, old ageism, me speaking. A little bit. But are you the character and things fall apart that is looking at the land and kind of have a single tear in your eye,

like, what's going? Are you a stranger on the strange land, which is your... Yeah, when you see the environment that is Atlanta now, like, are you relating to this stuff? Do you want to be politically correct and be like, well, Quincy Jones has embraced another generation? or like what is your feeling towards at least Atlanta. Why don't you just say it exactly what, say it, nigga? Like, this what he does. Like, just say it. Like, I'll answer too.

How do you feel about the ever-changing environment of what Atlanta is now compared to what it was 20 years ago? By the way, it's always been that it just needed a curator, a person who could bring it all together and create some integrity in it. and um what i was leading to is are you now la reed and are you realizing that you now need to be la reed of atlanta or is that too a lofty of an idea it's not too lofty of an idea because in theory yeah that might that might have some i may there may be some influence in that to the people who are looking at what my careers but what i'm talking about is more significant than just being one man who comes and takes advantage of all of the talent that's there and brings it

together. I'm talking about a collective. I'm talking about a group of people who decide that our business is important. A group of people who understand that our culture is important and there's a way to introduce it. And yes, it does take. But it starts with one man. Right. No, but it starts with a collective of people being on the same page because there ain't

nothing worse than having a plan and then you have other people compromising your efforts, which is going to be the case, period. but it can't happen from inside. You know what I'm saying? If you have, if we can just come together, man, and just start, like, supporting each other, not just getting on the record with each other, but, like, really helping and engaging each other

and understand that the idea of growth is in sharing. If you got $500,000 or $2 million, that ain't shit, man. You got to tell these kids, like, look, you think you got something, but you ain't got nothing yet. It's not until you begin to bring all that shit together aggregate and then build. Are they listening to you?

They slowly but surely listening, but I'm only one person. I'm only one person doing my part in it. In a perfect world, who are you gathering to, in a perfect world, what figures are you gathering, at least locally, to at least make this a semblance of a reality? It's a common conversation with everybody that I come in contact with. It ain't just one person. It's people who are in business. That's the one thing that Atlanta has to have, right?

In order to be respected as a major city and in business and culturally, it has to bring all of those elements together in order to make it. And that's oddly what L.A. Reed was able to do at that time. The dynamic of what it is and what success is, it's changed. It's changed. So now you've got to figure out, okay, you know, do you get to? politics so it's a matter of getting Kasim Reed in the room managing to get

Tyler Perry Yeah Oh Wait a minute That was a paradigm shift in the room I meant because there's a lot of property He has big Yeah

Is he a presence or is he just a studio in Atlanta? Nah Tyler Perry is most certainly A presence But there's more Is he active in the community? Yeah Or you don't know

I'm not so he no who not I ain't gonna bite my tongue I'm not that guy I know no I ain't that guy and and you're in the community so yeah I keep looking into the right to make sure the job is not going to stop it no no it's it's it's not that there's a certain expectation that comes with stepping into that space and no one person wants to compromise what they have in order to do it so it's like getting yeah getting people to understand that as a collective if you come together, if you bring it all together, you're stronger, and then you don't have to compromise anything.

Right, but it's that one person who's going to step out and take the chance with the other person and who's, but why not it be, Atlanta's the home of like black wealth right now in that entertainment. Is it still? And I just mean in the entertainment type way it is, is not? In an opportunistic way, because you see a city that's growing. Like, we can. I mean, but is it really about, is it really?

But do you feel there's a real community in Atlanta right now as it, at least, I was perceived, I thought between, between 84 with Peeble Bryson and cameo and that class of Atlanta and brick, like the arm, between first migration between 79 and 84 of all these artists moving to Atlanta and to when you guys were the new Jacks between 88 and 95, I always felt that there was a community. Like Eric Sermon's like, yo son, I'm moving to Atlanta. Like everybody was moving to Atlanta. Is there a community still or is it just like every man for itself and? Every man for himself because there's no formula. There's no business. There's no Clarence Avon in Atlanta.

Okay, I'll straight up ask you, do you desire the stress and the headaches and the gray hair and the sacrifice? of your personal career to try to be that Clarence Avon? I'm not trying to be Clarence Avon, though. We should not explain who Clarence Avon is for. Bill, who's Clarence Avon? There's Taboo Records. This is your show, too.

And Clarenceevant was a guy who, he found his, First of it was Sussex, which was one of Bill Withers. Fonte, go ahead and finish. No, I mean, well, you know, my regret about Clarence Avon, Sussex. There's gatekeepers. My regret about him is that I feel as though the way he was painted in the documentary Searching for Sugarman. Searching for Sugarman really painted him in a bad light.

Yeah, yeah. Which I feel his, you know, when we get to the Jam and Lewis episode, you know, you'll see how important next to Don Cornelius and Barry Gordy, he was like one of the most important and Stan Lathen, like, you know, he's part of the power of four that actually had power and resources in the 60s and 70s to make shit happen. Yeah. And so, you know, if you had a problem,

you went to Clarence Avonts to smooth it out. You know, he's almost like music industries, Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, like, be to go-to guy to smooth shit out. But everybody comes to Atlanta to take the piece of it, but they don't leave the street. structure that helps to continue to build it. He's learning the Black Lily lesson.

I was about to say that's Philly too. He's learning the Black Lily lesson. At least more people stay and build their wealth in Atlanta because that's like one of the you know, that's the difference between Philly and Atlanta. Because now I'm here in North Carolina might be the new spot. For sports people it's Phoenix.

Like I'm here, I now like there was a point where Atlanta was like the place to move but then you know it got overpriced and now it's hard to maintain a life there. Now I hear Atlanta people going elsewhere to the Carolinas to, you know, to start all over again. It's happening. It's happening.

So, you know, it's, I know it's sacrificial. So in some sense, yeah. Where do you see what's your next step? I'm not saying your last step, but what's your next step? I really do want to make an album with y'all. Questlo's Supreme Talk about it Yeah

I feel Okay for those that don't know When the Roots do The Roots Picnic Our annual festival In Philadelphia We like to do collaborative Community

Based projects because You know we feel as though That's really the spirit of Philadelphia The collaboration spirit That's where the roots really shine We're working with other people And I'll say that of all the collaborations that we've done year after year, like we've done

John Legend one year, we did Nardi by Nature one year, we did Public Enemy, we did Nause, we did Wu-Tang. I mean, we did the usual suspects. When we did our ninth year, we wanted to, I wanted to pull kind of a non-predictable move. And for me, that move was to, you know, I was like, we should get a singer, we should just shock everyone. Like, who's that singer that people be like, wait, what the hell is this? Like, and we realized that Usher is really the voice of, I mean, kind of the voice of his generation

that really speaks to people. And so it seemed kind of weird on site, but then it started to make sense. And, you know, I just feel like there was raised, I mean, you even kind of raised your eyebrows. I was like, what's... I did. I was like, I should read the Roots picnic. But then when the music started rolling,

everybody was like, it was like a shock to your system like, oh, yes. No, it makes sense to me because Usher got jams. You know what I mean? And I ain't saying that just because, you know, you're sitting here.

I just think that there's a revolutionary sound that complements all of what you've been building. And I really feel like I'm the voice to carry it out. Wow. I feel like there's a mission that is bigger than all of the shit that I've done in the past. Damn, now. I feel like the pressure is on me.

But it's not pressure. It's not pressure. It's pleasure. Like you really should understand that it took all of that to get to this place where I'm open enough and I'm capable of carrying out what needs to be done and said, both as a standard of business and also to a standard of music that leads to the next chapter. it has textures of our roots Africa Cuba percussion music tying the reality of all of what that is

and then also to the truth in it's almost like a project that's like the songs and songs in the key of life like it's going to be something incredible I believe it this is the record you and the roots are doing I think it's a record that he I think it's a record that we're going to work on

I mean but it's going to happen naturally I think that we've been working together, rocking together. And now we get into a place where we're communicating. This is Usher, proposing. We're communicating in a way that, you know what I'm saying, gets us down in the space of just being creative. If you're just joining us in the final minutes of the Usher Raymond, the fourth episode of Quest Love Supreme,

Usher Raymond is now proposing that the Roots and Usher do an album together. And everyone seems pretty much excited. I'm here for. Yes, I'm excited. Especially what he's saying. Like, if you go back to the root of what he said, I like that. Like, it's all of it, though. No, I knew from the gate it was going to lead to this, but part of me is like scared

out of my mind. Why? What do you think? You don't want to mess up, Usher? This is probably more. Yeah. But you can't. But you can't look at it that way because it's something that, okay, let me give you

the reality. The reality is in the process of making all of the albums that I have and having the platform, I've I've been I've been living vicariously through a lot of other people's reality. So even though they've been telling my story, I've been helping the world through like poems and through like the ideas of things.

And then I've lived things, but I also too need the support musically to be able to tell that story and it not feel like it's just a product for sale, even though it may work. You know what I'm saying? but being able to understand somebody who understands all those textures, you get it. You understand, but you can't be afraid.

You got to just allow us to just go in it and just get it going. Because- Fight your Capricorn. Yeah, he's looking around like this is a fucking intervention. Yeah, like, so. You know what I'm saying? We have a plane ticket ready for you to go. Literally the entire room. If you go to night, you have to agree.

Literally the entire room is looking at me. But no, I mean, at this is at this point, And you're in both of y'all's careers, right? But I mean, you know, with you, this is in my opinion, you know, you really have nothing else to prove, so to speak. So it's like if you want to make that quote unquote art record with the roots, which I don't think, I'm just using that term loosely. But you have nothing else to prove. Like we know you can sing, we know you can dance. We know you can make hits.

And it ain't about, it's like, understand that it's not a, it's about. including all of the different textures and places that we both have gone to make it. It's not like just one specific thing. You know what I'm saying? Like use all of it. You see all of the examples of things that I've been able to do and you guys have been able to do. Let's bring it all together and bring the textures because there's a story that's way deeper. I mean, I even figure out what the actual words to articulate it right now are.

I hear you loud and clear. When you hear the textures of what you know is relevant and the sound and the energy, what it is and then you can go and put the soul behind it and then go also to put the right production behind it and the right ideas and the right ears on it. We know that. We understand that. And we understand it in a way that they need to be taught. You know what it is, though? And maybe this is coming full. I see Bill looking at me because he knows I'm about to reintroduce the self-sabotage analogy. Self-sabotized analogy coming up. No, okay, you know like when, and I I have to place this on women.

You know, like when women choose a toxic relationship, like it's easy to choose a toxic relationship because you know subconsciously it's going to fail and not going to go anywhere so you don't have that expectations. There's no accountability on your part. But if you choose a real relationship, it's going to hurt some work. And thank you for doing the work already,

because you were already doing it. We wouldn't even be in this fucking room right now if you weren't doing the work. Fucking right. Thank you for doing the work so we could be in this fucking room. I just thought since I was fucking. Aunt Kelly. Where are you at, On Kelly?

You're doing it. You're doing it. And the reality is it's going to, it has to organically happen. This really became a freaking a mere intervention program. I think that's what every show is. But you always preface that you're afraid of something. We've had this discussion a number of times. I read a lot of psychology books, man. I'm sorry.

I know, but I don't know. I don't feel like knowing you as a person would think that you're afraid of anything. Yeah. This seems like more of like an opportunity that you just need to grab. Can you think of a more competent person to carry that out? I'm afraid a lot. I, but I'm also wise enough, as I've stated in other episodes, I'm wise enough to listen to my ledge talkers. You know, and despite whatever the, the cult leader jokes that you guys have.

I mean. So wait a minute. The reason why Bill is here leading as a producer, even though, you know, he's a musical genius and all that stuff. and his organization. I'm just saying that I trust you enough and your musical wisdom to also not kiss my...

Because it's easy. I have some employees that will just that are afraid of me and like... I don't want to make a mere upset. But I'm just saying that... So then we need to write ears and the right coaches around us to manage our expectations.

That's all you say. You just need in it. You need what I. I call in life, you need NNAs. What's that, Fonte? A non-nigger advisor. You need them up. When you're in there.

That's a nigga of all races. You just right. You just need when you're like, yo son, what you think? Nah, nigger. You need your non-nigercise to keep it funky with you. I bought him to his tribute. Did you come up with that on your own?

Yo, that was so genius. We have to end up in the episode. Oh, no. All right, sure. Quick, quick, what? Good Kisser, man. Why wouldn't that shit on the album? Come on, come on.

Yeah, what is up? All right, all right. I love that fucking record. What is up with a string of singles that you put? It's almost like gangster with BBD. Right. These really good singles that didn't quite make the record. Like, what is up with that?

Well, what happened was... Good Kisser was a great single. I love that fucking song. What had happened was this. I started working on the album. and my son almost drowned the day that I started working on it, right? So the album that I was working on then stopped. And then I started back up.

And then I had to shoot a movie. And then in the middle of shooting, Roberto Durant movie. Right. And then I decided to take a quick moment and I went to the voice and I did that. So all of these moments that stopped in between created like a different spot. I couldn't just pick back up where I was. from the aspect of building the music, rather I write it or rather I collaborate and write it

because the second single was she came to give it to you with Forreal. And I performed that record on MTV. You know, part of it was I'm not sure I'm not sure it was the record that everybody wanted. That one was to me, that one felt like post-blurred lines. It was kind of like,

eh. Yeah, that was. It felt like for real kind of He didn't have a lot left in the tank That's weird because as a DJ I cherish Any song in the key of E minor that's 119 BPMs That's very specific

No but that's how I think is the DJ Okay 119 She came to give it to you Is my Okay I need a 120er That's an E minor that will lead me to A different

Well long story short I still spin it to this day. There was such a disconnecting between the work that I was working on then and then where the album went, that in telling that story, it just felt like it stuck out like a sore thumb. It had already served its purpose. It was a hit record.

People liked it. It did get, I mean, I don't know if it was as big of a hit as I wanted it to be, but it was a number one record. What is it hit for you now in light of, in the age of streaming? Like, does confessions even exist to you anymore?

Is it just like... What do you mean? Which aspect of confession? Well, I just feel now that you're about making artistic statements more than dealing with, oh, man, I got to... The only way to make a cohesive... Okay, no. No, I'm going to answer your question.

It does not matter to me to make a record that is like confessions. Like, I need to have confessions because confessions is never going to happen again. It is what it is. It was for that moment, Jermaine Dupree and all of the producers who were part of it were right where they needed to be and right at that moment, and I can't go back and get that. But what I can do is move to the next chapter and do something that feels like a cohesive body of work that is valuable, that feels musical,

that feels like it's leading, it feels like it's pushing the lines, it is. And by the way, the idea of what music is for me now has expanded. Like, okay, some people may like, you know, the older records that I did, But then there's some people that like some of the new shit that I do too. They like DJ Godd's falling in love. They like OMG and they like the original version of it too, Quest.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like... Shots fired. Shots fired. But my point is it's like, so now I'm forced with the reality that I have a stadium of people waiting to come. And I don't have music to serve everybody right now. I only have one record that works here, one record that works there. And while we're in a time where I can put out a song here, a song there,

fragmented. That's the reality of where we are. You know what I'm saying? Like, unfortunately, even if people have an entire album, the people listen to a single. They like this song, that song, and you don't even know what album it comes from. So what's necessary? What's necessary is to create a cohesive body of work that from the beginning to end, you feel the connection. It might feel like it's a little bit rocky and all over the place and textures taken from all over the place, but it's a cohesive body of work, meaning we need to go get in the studio, lock the door, bringing our N&A, what do you say? NNA, you're not a nigga advisor.

Bringing your N&A board. A board. Because there's a couple of them, you know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot of perspectives to be considered. And it is a progressive sound. It ain't going to sound and feel like anything, but it requires everything to make it happen. Amen.

I'm playing. I'm playing. Well, Mr. Raymond, the fourth, I know this was painful. No, I wasn't. Actually, I've really enjoyed it. You must have because I stayed at hour. Shout out to Jaha, ladies and gentlemen, for not. Jaha, I'm sorry, I lied to you.

Top of the hour. I told Jaha, it's going to be like 45 minutes to an hour or nothing. He's just rubbing his head. He's not looking at you right now. I'm paying attention. He's just rubbing his head. No, but thank you very much, Usher. I hope for a great.

fruitful relationship in which we listen to. I can't wait to see what y'all do. See, that's the pressure, man. No, I mean, oh, come on, man. I mean, it's not pressure. It's like, it's just, well, I can imagine. I won't say it's not pressure, but we have confidence

that this shit would be dope based on your record and your record. It's not like y'all going to make a just good friend, you know what I mean? It's like, you know what I mean? That should be the closing song. Right, right. Or get it. I like get it.

Oh, no, no. You didn't like get it? Hell, no. It was the jam. Like Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder should have never made records together. Oh, is that what you're talking about? Besides buttercup and I can't help it. They knocked it out the part.

But get it and just good friends. It takes a little bit more discipline on your part, right, to just get prepared. And then, you know, let it happen. Because I can carry it out. You know what I'm saying? I can carry the weight. And some of the ideas and the things that I think we should add in are going to be foreign to people.

It's going to feel odd when they first hear it. It's going to feel, they're going to feel some connection to it, but they're not going to know what it is. They're not going to know why they're moving to way that they're moving. They're not going to understand that it's something different. It's something that's intended to nurture their soul. They don't get it. Nurture my soul.

I love those two words together. Well, this is the wrap of the show. But we... I'm telling you... We do our reflective thing. Because I'm a speaking into existence until it happens. It's...

No one's hiding from you. I should have him in the fourth. No, the secret. It's the book with you. Ah, ha. Oh, the secret. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaking. You speak it into existence. Anyway, Fonte, what did you learn, bro? Yo, man, I learned us as a real dude, man. One last question. Your studio session regimen. No, no. No, no, just...

No, it's real questions. Yeah, real question. your food uh exit shout my man exit mark exit good child uh record uh engineer he was telling me about your studio session writer and what you eat in the studio like to like apparently your shit is like crazy dismalin like what do you eat we just stopped by dunas before this interview by the right but um no but um i eat fruit i eat like vegetables you know what i'm saying it's like bell Peppers, broccoli, spinach, beats. Boring.

Yeah, it's boring as shit. But what's crazy is that it keeps you, it's alive, man. And you get beneath an apple bomb. Hey. Hey. That's the best dessert. You know what I'm going to? Anyway, I've learned that Usher is like, you know, a real dude and listen to his story

is a lot of similarities. And my story is a young kid growing up in the South. I'm just happy to just be able to see it and job it up with you. I'm a fan and, you know, always support what you do. Appreciate you, brother, for real. Thank you, man. Laya. What did you learn?

It's been an amazing ride growing up with you, number one, because that's how it feels that way and to see your evolution. But I also learned that, like, Usher is not only hella woke, but hella up to doing something about it. And I know that you're very community active, but you just took it to another level tonight. And so I'm just letting you know with some soldiers out here. We ready. That's all.

That's what I learned. I'm going to move my money to a black bank as well. Mine is in industrial. Would you need some suggestions? There you go. Carver downtown Brooklyn. All right. Call me.

Wait, why are you looking at me? Because you said you need a black bank. I was just saying I got some suggestions. Okay. And I'm going to take your suggestions when we off the air. Okay. So these niggas don't know what my money is. You know what I'm saying?

Bill. Oh, what did I learn? Yeah, so what did you learn today? I don't want to say that I learned something, but it's just always refreshing when you meet somebody like Usher, if someone in his status and you realize that they're not crazy and they're actually down to earth and, you know, like Fonte said, And has every reason not to be.

Yeah, it has every reason to be like, yeah, I'd be completely, you wouldn't want to be around me if I sold 13 million or 13 million records. I couldn't tell you nothing. No, you couldn't. You couldn't. You couldn't tell you now. You couldn't tell me if I was. I sold 600 records.

No, 68. 68 million. 68 million worldwide? He is one of the top billboard artists of the century, something like that. I know it's the top 25 something. The numbers don't lie. Yeah, so how do you stay humble, man?

I couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. Ain't doing it. Boss. You're spired. All right, unpaid bill. Usher and I are about the same age, and I was just sort of wondering the whole time

what the hell I was doing when I was 15. And it wasn't what Usher was doing. And Usher, I don't know if you know this. We've worked tangentially on a number of different things, Sesame Street and the otherwise, and we've never actually met. Usher was on Sesame Street? He was. He sang the ABC's like, motherfucker.

It's one of the coolest things in many years that I've worked there. It's great. Yeah, but Unpaid Bill has a lot of jobs, too. One of them is being a key Sesame Street songwriter. He's an ego. Yeah. That sounds fucking. Terrible.

He's a ghetto. He's a ghetto. He's a Ghetto. I'm a Gettom. I would get, but it'd be something like I have an ego. So that's great. Thank you very much for that. But it's very humbly to meet you as well.

No doubt, man. All right. The ABC's the movie you should have definitely. It should definitely have wanted something. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sure. Steve. What did you learn, bro? First of all, I think I know butter. I think I worked with him at Electrical Lady back in the early. 2000s. I'm trying to remember what project it was, but it's a terribly interesting story starting so young.

And, you know, I've come to respect your music and you from working on all this stuff with the roots. And I think a collaboration with the roots would be a great idea, and I think it falls in line nicely with the rest of their collaboration albums, you know. as far as I think it would work well. Sounds like a lot of work, but just to add on something,

after seeing the roots in Usher perform at Brooklyn Bowl, like however many months ago, I'd buy an album of just you guys, you know, doing the old stuff. Yeah, that was my question. Is that going to be, is it going to be? I was going to say, I felt like, you always cut me off when I'm trying to say what I love.

I'm sorry. Steve will finish. Good, Steve. He's like, I can't cut you all, though. No, I was wondering if. Are you? Are you clearly imagining original material for an album with the roots? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's got to be original. And maybe there are moments where maybe there's a song that's so significant that we have to remake it and do it in a way that makes it feel like it was done for the first time by us. But it would be nice to have it. I have the, didn't you record that Brooklyn Bowl show? Like, yeah, I've recorded those. Yeah, it'd be nice to have that. You want to put that out?

Available. But, in case, we get. And we could set the stage again, we could play something here. Similar to the Roots Picnic, which y'all did at Brooklyn Bowl? Yeah, it was tighter, though. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, we'll, okay, we might leave with a taste of what we're doing. Let's do that. Okay. Yes. But, yes. I mean, there's, there's, the stuff is properly recorded on two-inch tape. and, you know, Brooklyn Ball was on two-in-state? He was my entire Brooklyn.

I have to say that what you won't know about boss, Bill, or Fronte is that, you know, we all come from the okay player community. And, you know, I kind of felt that Bill was losing faith in us for a good decade or so. But in the roots? Well, yeah. I mean, it's not like we could surprise you anymore. No, no, I was, I was with y'all up until undone. Okay, well, that's way more.

That's two records. Yeah, that's two records. That's way more than I expect. No, that's only one record because cousin was that one. Undone and a cousin record. It's only two. Yeah. Well, okay.

I'm just saying that I was shocked that you really liked the Brooklyn Bowl shows. Yeah. So that was my Richard Nichols moment like, oh. It didn't suck, like the dame dash. Oh, it's not whack. I was like, oh, I still got a future here. Maybe I should investigate this. I should think.

I learned a lot. I learned that you're probably the most thoughtful singer I've ever met. Because I'm not saying most singers are clueless. They're fucking clueless. Yeah, I meet a lot of clueless singers that rely on their management. and their weed carriers to kind of advise them on what to do. And you clearly have a mission. I do believe that you are going to be the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia,

musically speaking. Not now maybe when you're 60 or 70. I don't know. But I feel that you will take that leadership role. I can see that. Yeah. I hope politically, too, a little bit. Oh, yeah, I can totally see Usher being a politician.

I mean, you know. Reb him, Usher. Oh, no. Oh, God, Reverend Osher. Those bad boys are you going to come back on you? Oh, no. Anyway, on that note, on behalf of Sugar Steve and Unpaid Bill and Boss Bill and Laiya and Fonticelo and Ushering in the fourth, this is Questlove signing off.

West Love Supreme is a production. of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

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The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

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