The Questlove Show - QLS Classic: Wayne Shorter

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

The music world lost a legend this week in Wayne Shorter. In 2022, Questlove Supreme had the honor of interviewing the man who shaped the sound of Jazz. In this conversation, Wayne Shorter told Team Supreme about his time with Weather Report, The Jazz Messengers, and Miles Davis. Wayne also spoke about his earliest music memories and his draw to Buddhism.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated

the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What's going on, y'all? This is Questlove. And on behalf of the QLS family, we're going to celebrate the life, the light, and the legacy of the great Wayne Shorter, an absolute master of his craft, be it with his beginnings,

with the Art Blakey jazz messengers, or with his mind-blowing work, with one of the greatest quintets in jazz music. Of course, I'm talking about his tenure with Miles Davis. Also with the occasional side gig, with Donald Bird or McCoy Tyner or Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Carlos Santana,

and Carta, Marcus Miller, and even an opera with a great Esperanza Spall. And of course, I'd be remiss if we didn't mention his spellbonding work with one of the greatest creatives of musicians ever gathered. Of course, I'm talking about Weather Report. We got to speak to Wayne, Brother Wayne, June of 2022. He was happy to share his work about his journey as a musician, as a creative, as a Buddhist, and as a human being. We just want to offer condolences to his family, to his friends and his loved ones, and we celebrate his life's work. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme, your host, Questlove. Oh, I'm sorry. Our, you know, are recently awarded Webby award-winning Questlove's three times. All times. It's the third one. I have yet, I've yet to see those trophies, but I trust that we've won those things. So, you know the record books. Do you know who they're sending those two lia at all?

I don't know. in the sky. I have no idea, but there are a lot of emails being sent. So there's, there's a yeah, I was going to say, you know, somewhere out there, uh, they're living their dream as Questlove Supreme award winners, but, you know, that's neither here nor there, you know, because besides getting actual statues and accolades, I'll say that the joy of doing this podcast is, you know, it's just every episode, we just get educated, legend after legend after legend and today is absolutely positively. No exception to that rule. Simply put, today our guest is probably one of the greatest musicians, one of the greatest composers, one of the

greatest band leaders, probably one of the greatest improvisers. I mean, when you really talk about the genre of free jazz and fusion or whatever you want to call it, you know, Our guess is beyond pioneer. Like I see him more as a painter, as an artist, who probably, I'll say that his greatest weapon is just his ability to create synesthesia in us with the colors that he paints, with his compositions and with his actual playing. Probably one of the greatest time travels of music.

I mean, every... Ever. He's played with everybody. Every project of a story career from being a member of the legendary Art Blakey Jazz Messengers playing with like Lee Morgan, Bobby Timmons, Amy Merritt.

One of the, I mean, one of the prime architects of the greatest quintets in the history of jazz with Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, and Tony Williams with what we call the second great quintet, even down to forming Weather Report with Joe Zemonell and playing with, like, Jacob Astoros and Alfonso Johnson and Victor Bailey and all these greats, even to his own work. If I do this intro, the show will be over before we even get to questions.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome and give us the honor of welcoming one of the greatest architects in music, not jazz, but in creativity. The one and only, Wayne Shorter. Thank you very much for doing. Hello, hello. It's amazing. Hello, everybody. Thank you for that introduction.

Thanks. But it really belongs to all of the cats. I call them the cats. Oh, I still call them the cats. I even called the guys from the classical area. They were cats and didn't know it. So right now, where are you speaking to us from?

Where are you at right now currently? Well, I'm right here in California, Los Angeles. That's where you live right now? I'm at home, yeah. Oh, okay. How long has that been your home out there? Well, I've been here since 1972, 71, 72. But seven years in Florida, then move back to California, yeah.

Now, normally, you know, when I do this show or try to go through the genealogy, but, you know, you have seven decades of creativity under your belt, so we wouldn't even scratch the surface. So I kind of want to just do sort of random questioning. Now, you mentioned California and there's a myth I would like you to settle with me. You know, I come from the world of hip hop and, you know, hip hop has been very territorial. You know, the type of hip hop that comes from New York is different than that of down south. It's different than that of the West Coast. But can you, is there any theory on why you believe or I've always felt that California has never truly gotten its respect in terms of jazz music.

Like, I've always heard that, you know, no self-respecting musician would ever, you know, stay in California. Like, you would stay in New York where the heart of creativity is. But what was it about California that drew you to it? And did you ever adhere to jazz snobs that, you know, or the jazz police, whatever, that always look down on California. Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Well, one, the first thing where I moved to California was a medical reason.

I had a daughter who was acquired brain damage when she was born. And then the four seasons on the East Coast, the doctor said she would get colds from some of the drafts and some of the apartments, you know, like windows and stuff like that. And then she would be, have seizures. Sometimes she would have 15 seizures in a day. And they said, you have to go to a warm climate, like with two major climates summer and spring. Or go to California, something like that. So we moved from New York to California. And while we were moving, we found out other people were moving too.

But they didn't have medical reasons, but they, like Herbie Hancock. He moved just before I did. Chick Korea. Joe Zavnoo and all. The Exodus. Yeah, they were good. I was thinking they were moving to where jazz was needed in a sense. Wow.

You know, and I got that by observing Charlie Parker when he was out here, and he made me relaxing in California and playing some of the places and picking up the West Coast musicians to play with. with him. And I saw him pictures of him rehearsing with Lenny Tristano, Lee Connitz, and the guys out here, Chet Baker. But Johnny Parker, he would play Bar Mitzvna anywhere. See, what Charlie Parker, I'm saying, where you were, didn't matter. He was, I saw him in a movie where he was singing. Mario Lanza, be my love. Right, yeah.

Boris Whitaker was actually acting at the singing. Oh, yeah, Bird. Bird, yeah, yeah. And while I'm mentioning this, I like to mention a musician who passed away. I didn't know he had passed away. His name was Bernard Wright. Yes, yes.

He's a kind of wild and everything. I didn't realize he came out of the church when he was young, but he was one of the guys who played synthesizer that any way he wanted in piano, it didn't matter where he was. I'm sticking on this

where you are location thing. And we have a little thing we say and talk about in Buddhism. When you pack your suitcase, you're going to move somewhere where you think you better off. There's a little guy sitting on a suitcase named Karma talking about

what took you so long? I'm going to. going with you. So you're going to take your environment with you. And never giving up is my motto. Never give up and don't let where you are fool you. That's it. Okay.

You mentioned being a practicing Buddhist. You know, one of the first people that I've ever heard mentioning that they were practicing Buddhist was Herbie Hancock. Is it safe to assume that both of you, discover this at the same time or were you two a part of each other's process and and studying Buddhism because, you know, even back, I remember interviews as early as like 1971 of him speaking of his Buddhist practice. When did you become a Buddhist? Well, actually, 1973, I took up the mantle, so to speak. I went to Japan without, you know, and my wife at the time, Anna Maria,

she's the one who passed away on TWA. Yeah. 800. Oh, man. She was nailing something on the wall one morning in California in our first house. She's nailing something to the wall. And I said, what are you doing? Three o'clock in the morning.

And she said, I just came from Herbie's house this afternoon. And he was telling me about this practice of Buddhism. And what we learned from Herbie's house. was he learned it from Buster Williams. He learned about it from Buster Williams. Buster Williams said he learned about it from his wife, Ronnie,

Veronica. Veronica Williams when he was about fresh out of high school. And so Herbie said why don't you check it out for your daughter's sake

because our daughter was born with these seizures and all that. So we thought maybe we would check out the philosophy and see how it connects with our daughter. Our daughter did pass away at age 15 of a grand mal seizure here in California. But the wise practitioners of Buddhism say she came with brain damage, but she completed her mission. and her mission was to expose her parents to the ultimate law of life the ultimate law of their life that that you are eternal and stuff like that

a lot of the same things but she came to wake us up even though she didn't she only had a few words she only learned a few words to speak and stuff like that but uh her life was not in vain. So we're looking at a lot of other people who kind of think something's in vain. There's no use to do this.

I'm going to give up on that. I got a bunch of shirts ahead. It says, never give up on the shirt. So that's it's not so much trying to be perfect and be a religious person. In fact,

some of us who practice, this Buddhism get wilder. Oh, hey, I mean, you know, or anything, you get wild. The report comes next. So, of course, I'm about to say, right. Because the thing is, especially with the history of our people in this country, with black people, I always wondered, you know,

how hard of a decision was that to make. You know, because I think that black people were always trained to, you know, like, we must. only follow Christianity and any other philosophy. Like Maurice White would tell me that when he was sort of practicing his spirituality, that it was really controversial with everyday blacks because it wasn't under the trope of like God, Jesus, and Christianity. But for you to do that so early, especially now that we're more open to, I guess,

following our hearts and following traditions and ways, or whatnot, you know, how was this easy for the people around you, your family members or your friends or whatever, like to accept where you were going or did they just look at you like an alien? Like, I was 40 or 41 where when I thought, you know, I said, I got it together. I know, you know, I can take care of myself. There's a point where some of us think we know everything that we can handle everything that's swimming away and when I was 40 I stopped to think about my daughter's seizures how she came into the world with the brain damage and all that and I was I started to think about this I said wait a minute

there's some stuff I don't know about so I started listening to what uh some of the people I knew of course it was her being Buster Williams my wife at the time and Anna Maria she started working on this listening to philosophy before I did and I'm I when I went on a tour in 1973 July 3rd to Japan and we all left was a web report we all left and went in Hawaii I stopped in Hawaii behind them took another plane and got in a small hotel by myself because that was actually handling alcohol.

So I wouldn't be myself if we had a few days off before we did a concert in Hawaii and just get ripped. Not just get ripped with sloppy and everything. I've got me a new suit,

Panama suit, and I walk around acting like I can handle everything. I went from nightclub to nightclub sitting at the bar talking philosophy, some jive philosophy with people and all that. And they told me,

once you start to do this practice as a Buddhism, all of this junk that you have in you are going to come out. It's like a water hose and garden water hose that hasn't been used in a long time. And when you flush it with this philosophy, the first thing that comes out is a lot of leaves and rusts and everything like that out of your life. And I was saying, whoa, I thought I was, you know, so I was, they even had a what do you call a missing person call on me in Hawaii. Oh, wow.

Until it was time to play the gig. And I went, I got myself together and joined the band. And they said, you scared us to death, man? So that I had gone to a temple in Japan and what are he called, received something called. called, I don't want to say many words with Gojikai. Tina Turner has a book out on this stuff.

She has a whole explanation of stuff and everything like that. And I received it in a temple. There's only a little baby and myself and the baby's mother in the temple. And we received something

that we said we're going to practice this practice. So anyway, the thing about playing different once you start doing stuff like this, playing different. What Herbie said was he heard Buster Williams take a bass solo one night. Maybe you heard about this.

I haven't heard this. This is classic. He took a bass solo. They were playing at the penthouse in Seattle, Penthouse, Michael. When Buster finished, the applause wouldn't stop. It was one of the longest applause that Herbie ever heard. And they got in the dress room, he said, Buster, what you've been doing? Buster explained to him a little bit about what he was doing.

So Herbys said, I want to try what's going on. And that was when he got, what he called it, that hit, that dead. Oh, rocket. Okay, I wanted to know how. Okay, okay, okay, that's how Buddhism changed his sound. Okay. Well, actually, people, he didn't want people to think when you start ranking. to sing a philosophy, you're going to get hit records.

No, but Herbie got a hit before with a watermelon man. Yeah. Camillion. Yeah. Camillion, yes. But I always thought that Herbie had a lucky star over his head. Since I met him in 1963, he's one of those guys in school. There's another guy with the school with Joe, like Herbie, base player.

He's a diplomat now. Eddie White's name Eddie White, just like Kirby. They had this lucky star over their head all their lives. I said, man, nothing funny ever happened to them. And everything's good. Just blast, huh? Just a little bit. And I learned quickly, you can't count your blessing by watching your neighbor's treasure trove, you call it.

I said to myself, shut up and be cool. And I stopped talking. I went to meetings. We had meetings at our house. Had a lot of meetings at our house. And not a name dropping of people who came to the meetings. You know, people who wanted to be movie stars and all that, wanted to get this.

But you'd be surprised the names are, you know, I'm not going to say the names. But every and every now and then I would say a name of a person who came to our house to a meeting. And then somebody would say, oh, you name dropping now, your name drop. But I cut them off quick and say,

no, I'm not name dropping. I'm named lifting. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations

with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm AGO My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell.

Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. One question I have for you, Mr. Shorter, how did you get the nickname Mr. Gone? Oh, yeah, I was in Brazil. And we all went to Brazil to do a festival there. And the band came back to the United States early to do. This record, I stayed another month in Brazil while they were making a record and they were making some music.

And they went to name, they named it after me. And they said, Joe's album to say, let's call this one Mr. Gone. I really like Joe's piece, Young and Fine on that, on that album. That's that party time. Yeah. Party time and stuff here. Yeah. I briefly met you once at a festival.

I mean, this is like 20 years ago or maybe 25 years ago. And just briefly talking. And I believe you told me that you didn't even start your craft in playing clarinet and saxophone until you were like well into your teens. So, you know, and I've really, because we were in passing, I always wanted to. to ask you. So you're telling me that I would have thought that you would have came out the womb, you know, with an ax in hand.

How did you discover your talents at such kind of a late stage in your life? Well, actually, I used to play hooky. When I was started in high school, I played hooky, go to the movies, walk past the school, and going down to downtown, two movie theater. And I used to go see, like, two movies and the stage show.

And the stage show was at the theater's called the Adam Theater. And there was Disney Lesby, Illinois Jacket, and his brother Russell jacket, and this thing called the jazz at the Philharmonics. I'm watching this stuff listening. I was about 15 then. And there's a music store right around the corner from my house. high school. I used to walk by this music store and look in the window. I was majoring in art,

and I found myself cutting classes, just go look at the instruments in the music store. Then I got me for a dollar something, $1.50, a little thing looks like a submarine called a tonnet, a plastic, like a plastic flute at six holes. I got it. And they used to walk around the neighborhood blowing on this thing like doodoo do do do do loo do like a and my mother said whenever she wanted to get me coming for dinner, all she had to do is open the window and hear where I was here where I was at. I know where you're at. So then I started fingering this thing.

No instructions. I just thought, do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d. And when I went to see the stage shows, I hear them playing, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I mashed the holes on this little, it looks like a submarine. I mash like a do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-t.

I tried to mash what I heard. Mm-hmm. And then I looked in the window real close one time, And there's this clarinet sitting up there, among the other instruments, all vertical. And my grandmother and my mother got the money together to get this clarinet, which cost $90. It was a used clarinet.

And the name when I said, somebody's name, Elizabeth, New Jersey, on each part of the clarinet, they could take it apart. And I got that, I still have it. You still have it? Yeah. Oh, whoa. And I went into the music store.

The guy who ran the music store was also, he ran the pit band at the Adam Cid and when they had the shows. His name was Jack Arnold Press. Right. And he'd take me to the back room and started clarinet lessons, learning to read notes, counting, and all that. Pat your foot and all, you know, stuff like that. I did that one year with him. Then he got me a tenor saxophone too. Because you say, you make more money if you play clarinet and tenor.

The music union again. So I got to mess around with these things, but I would start playing at home about six hours a day. Not every day, but six hours of the school day. I stand up in the room and just turn around the six hours going. by them. So working on scales, do-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-stuff like that. Then I listened to what was out there, listening to Charlie Parker, all the guys are Blakey, the Colonious Monk, knew what they were doing.

And then I went to the library and took out records, the classical. And I got one of the Digi Gillespie's Montecca. And also I got Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring. Right to Spring. Yeah. Yeah, that explains everything. The fact that you would said to Rites of Spring explains everything. All right, to our listeners out there, real quick,

Stravinsky's compositions used to cause riots. Stravinsky was the idiom of his day. Stravinsky was the bomb squad public enemy of his day. Like he would make the audience angry with clashing notes and, you know, he was the free jazz of the classical era. And when he created Rites of Spring, I mean, just name all the controversial records that you can think of from Miles is on the corner to it takes the nation of millions to hold us back to even when like, you know, radio head sort of turned their

Kid A, back on rock with, you know, with Kid A, like all these experiments, and it made the audience angry. But, you know, this, that was like one of the first examples of opening a portal of creativity where suddenly you didn't follow the rules of music. You had to just, you know, you followed your heart. And so, wow. Yeah, there's a story that in 1909, they were in Paris when it first did a write of spring, publicly.

And it's a musician, I think it's a monster rock or something. Sitting next to another composer and when the writer's spring started, he was annoyed. He said, why did Srovinsky

started with the bassoon way up high? It's an ugly sound. You know, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, something like that. And the other guy said, be quiet. Let's see where he's going.

And every time I play that, I say, do, do, do, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I said, Syraminsky started with something that would irritate people. I heard that somebody got killed in that. Yes. Oh, wow. It was like the first mosh pit or the first act of violence at a music, you know. I always bring that up when people talk about, like, violence and hip-hop.

But I'm like, you know, we learned a classic music. That thing started a long time ago. Listen, Lee, Lord. Let me ask you, and I'm skipping all over the place, but since you kind of bartered it up, I got to ask you. At the time, did you feel like Miles was going through his own Stravinsky phase in terms of like where he was taking music? You know, at the time when Miles was really stretching out and, you know, I kind of feel like that phase. started with the last jazz record that you guys made, which was the Nefertiti album. Can you just explain one thing?

What was the philosophy behind the title track, Nefertiti, in which you, Normiles, took a solo and you let Tony Williams and Ron Carter just run rampant with experiment? Like, that was just unheard of at the time. Like, or were you guys just like roll the tape, you know, Tio start the tape and just start going? Like, what was the philosophy behind that particular, that particular session, which you guys did a seven-minute jazz song with no solos in it and just let the rhythm section go crazy? I had to get something. I knew he was getting a prop.

I knew you was getting a prop. I knew you was getting a pop. I love it. Let's go. You see this? Yeah. Nefertitis. You're holding up a statue of Nefertiti. I made this when I was 15. I was 15 years old.

Wow. And I got it from the school before they got a hold of it themselves, you know. I made this. No. This is a replica of the one that they have in the Berlin Museum. Yeah. And I got it from the newspaper and I copied it in clay and plaster. And this is it from 1951, 1950, from 1950 to now. There it is.

Hidden talents. That's beautiful. Our listeners out there, Mr. Short is we're on Zoom, of course. He's holding up a white sculpture of Nefertina. And you did this at 15? Oh, yeah. This is on YouTube. when people are going to see that sculpture, so that's good.

I didn't know how heavy. The thing is heavy. That is beautiful. Nepartini, what caused you guys to do the repetition thing with no solos? Oh, yeah, well, Miles, when we started playing it, Miles was indicating with his body movement, he kept them like, again, again, again. So we go do the melody again.

did, da, da, da, da, they kept going. And then Tony Williams started doing like the drum thing behind it. It don't need any solos. It don't need the solo. Because when we played it in person, later when Chick Korea was a pianist, Chick would play a solo here and there on it.

But it was, he said, there's nothing can match the melody. What we heard, I went to Sweden and got one of those awards in Sweden and they made an arrangement of Nefertiti which is the baddest arrangement I've heard so far with the orchestra there. They, man, they tore it up

and they didn't solo or they just did the melody and put clothes on it. put a costume on it that was like only the Swedish Europeans and their artistic, you know, they were saying, we understand. Always. It was saying we understand where you want to go and where you could go. How about this? So with Miles, it was after Nefertiti that Miles did the bitch's brew. He's like he also wanted to start writing music where he would get the publishing,

you know, royalties from publishing, he wrote back songwriting and stuff like that. And that when he got from Betty, I'm a down-home girl. Betty Davis. That was hers, her lyrics and everything. He made it just a melody out of, Stuff like that. And that's when he crossed over into concert halls,

from the nightclubs into concert halls. And here's the funny thing. He said, one of the first things he did when he crossed over was a Bill Graham's, the Ice House, or someplace in California. Right. In the dressing room, we only played like a half hour. and he got good money for it. So what it was, we were used to playing two hours or an hour,

but this is the first time we played 30 minutes, and then Miles was looking at the paycheck that he got from the organization. We were all sitting around, we didn't look at it ourselves, but Miles were looking at the paycheck. He said, damn, 30 minutes. he looked at us and he said I feel like the thief so that's when he started

you know we went to Europe and started getting those concerts in Europe and stuff like that and that's when he met Cessley Tyson but that's that part but before Miles died we all met

in Switzerland and he held the thing with Quincy Jones and all that stuff. Wallace running was playing Miles' parts on the trumpet and all that. And the miles got me and Herbie together and said, what would it, he said, what would it be like if we got together again? Hmm.

And we said, that's what you all we were talking about? Yeah, we said, oh, Rob, oh, Rob. Wait a minute, you're trying to tell me, because the thing was, I asked Quincy, like, how did you get my, Miles to even agree to even go anywhere close to that type of jazz, which, you know, he had somehow avoided, you know, for least in that traditional sense of playing jazz. And you're telling me that Miles Davis, you and Herbie actually spoke of doing something together again. Miles was thinking about what would we sound like after Weather Report and after Head Hunter and after all that, what Herbie's been through. and what kind of stuff could we conjure up.

That's what everybody want to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what he went to the thing called Dubob. With an Easy MoB. You know. Yeah. And then he got the guys, Marcus Miller, and then got those guys together, you know,

guitar players and stuff like that. But his body, his body kind of dictated, dictated where he was going to go musically and he he would have to rest while playing okay and to start a whole new

something he knew to me a lot of work but we wasn't supposed to get together again really but that thought was like like a lighting a match in a dark tunnel. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that

trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I bet you. I got you. Everyone, I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be. Right.

It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I have a question about Miles. Has he offered any sort of opinion on your work with Weather Report during that period? Yeah, he did say... That was the only thing happening out there. He wrote in a newspaper.

He said the only thing that was happening out there was, was the report. Oh. Oh, wow. Nice. And he mentioned some pianos. Like, happening as a pianist, his Herbie, a chick,

a couple other pianists that, you know, band leaders and everything. That's the only thing happening when he was going for the six years. He'd come to see us at the theater in New York. And people didn't know who he was. He comes backstage, didn't know who he was. And we said, let Miles in, man, come on. Really?

Yeah. Oh, wow. That's crazy. Of your first round of solo work, like the, like the schizophrenia album, The Night Dreamer, Allsey and I, like my favorite is juju. But can you talk about what the creative process was in doing your solo work? Because I would imagine that. if you were in Miles' band,

like I would imagine that I know some band leaders that were frowned on what they were called moonlighting, like doing your own solo work. So I always wanted to know how Miles felt about, like, you and Herbie especially, like doing your own solo work on the side at Blue Note while still being in this quintet. You guys were so tight as a unit,

how often would you guys practice as a band? band during that period. You mean, as a Miles Davis band or our own band? Well, I mean, just, I guess I'm asking, how are you able to, you know, maximize creativity what Miles Davis and also subsequently do your own solo stuff on the side? I think, well, Miles, he welcomed that it would shine on him. You know, it would, uh, we do we do our own,

publicity, so to speak, which bounced off on the Miles Davis Quintech. And it was like, we didn't have to call Miles to ask for a retainer while we were off. When he was like in a hospital or something like that, we were like self, kind of self-sufficient in that way. A lot of people wanted to play with the Miles Davis rhythm. section. You know, they want to make records with the Maltape's rhythm section, but the guys were like Furby, and then there's McCoy. You had, in other words, you had the top guys doing things together, and it made a little difficult for anyone to crash that or tear it down or speak against it, you know. He said, wow, they got Alvin Jones.

Even our break, he played on one of my records, my first records, played the drum. So there was that give and take respect built in. But then later, when people start counting the beans, the royalties, what sold and what didn't sell, And there was an effort, I think, on the record company's part to break up any kind of alliance that we formed that they couldn't get their hands on. Can't penetrate. They were discouraging the buildup of, like, you'd be in Duke Aldengan's band for life.

But people starting a band from Duke Ellinger's band, or starting their own band from Count Basie, Yeah, Erskine Hawkins and all that. They were together almost like a life sentence. You know, they're the only ones who graduated in a sense would be like if you went into the movies like tap dancers or the vocalist. Have you seen Elephist Gerald documentary?

No. Yes, I have. Yes. Because she became the band leader. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was just going to ask you, because I've seen you in a lot recently,

and especially Lee Morgan and Miles, and I was wondering, as an architect, how do you feel in this moment of documenting all this history, and do you feel like they're getting it right? They're doing part. and parcel, put it that way. Okay. And what would you like?

What did they miss him? There's another one coming out on myself. A second? Your second documentary about you, right? Is it a second? No, this is a full one. Okay. Coming out soon.

Oh. And this is, I can say what is, the title right thus far, the title is Wayne Shorter, zero gravity. I'd be remiss if I didn't speak of your

work with the jazz messengers. I just want to know in general is the jazz messengers like your first actual, like, professional big gig, just in terms of you being with the unit? Yeah. Yeah, messengers. How did you...

I know you're from... You were from Newark, I know that, you know, America was in such a chaotic sort of place, especially for black people. What was it like as a person that was able to leave America and start touring the world and going overseas and all those things to see? What effect did I have on you? Well, actually, I was working with Maynard Ferguson's band. you know, Maynard Ferguson

and a big band. About three weeks. And one time we were working at Birdland and the waiter said there's a telephone call for Wayne. I Blake, he's on the phone. Said Lee Morgan had come to Newark, New Jersey, and played

a session with John Coltrane. And about midnight, Lee called my house. He heard about me. He called my house. So if I could go and play with them in the last number, they were playing in Indonesia at a nightclub in Newark. And I went, got my stuff together and played on the last number with Lee Morgan and John Coltrane.

Night Indonesia? Yeah. Ah. It was a jam session. And Lee had been going around to the jam sessions, listening to people. And we worked in Newark with Dizzy Gillisbee's big band with the drummer Charlie Percip from Newark

and all that. I was at the place called Sugar Hill. By the way, that's the place I saw Billy Holliday before I went in the Army. She was at Sugar Hill and Newark. You're making my eyeswater, Wayne. It's too much. Right, everybody.

Yeah. The longest month, they was all in there. And anyway, when I got out of the Army, that's when Lee called me and said, I'm playing with John Coltrane in North at midnight. We're going to play one more number. Can you come?

I heard about you. So I went and played. Then when I got with Manor Ferguson band, we were playing in Canada at a racetrack, Canadian Exposition, you call it. And doing with the break, the Amma Jamal and Sarah Vaughn, they were doing a break.

Here comes Lee Morgan, running across the race track. he came up to me. I'm sitting in the audience. He said, you want to be with the messengers? You want to be with the messengers? I said, yeah.

He said, come with me. And I went to a tent. He said, so I played you sitting there. And I said, he said, Lee Morgan is the apple of my eye. And I trust what he said.

I never heard me really. He said, do you want to be in my band? I said, yeah. So if he called Birdman Well, I was still playing with Mena Ferguson band.

He called Birdman and told Mena Ferguson said Wayne is a fighter pilot. He's not in the he doesn't work with bombers. Like big man. He's not a fighter pilot.

So that Maynard said he can find somebody to take his place and I was okay and I found somebody real good cat too. And then I flew from there to friend

Slick, Indiana, big festival with the messengers, Miles Davis, all in Canada, they were all there. And that was the start of my gig with the jazz messengers. And here's one of the big pieces of advice that we got from Marllake. When we went to Europe, I said, don't try to razzle-dazzle and people. How much you know about jazz and bebop and how much you know. Don't try to show off. Yeah, show off and everything back. Because the only thing they're going to remember is your behavior.

He said, okay, your behavior. I was cool. Me and Lee, we were cool and everything. So the behavior was like a guide for us, wherever we went to just be cool, play and play what you play. We were the coolest dressers, too, everything, you know. And so I was with them for five years, five years with the jazz messengers. And just be cool.

Don't pat your foot. Don't pat your foot with him. That Lee Morgan documentary is everything. Nah, that was great. One question I have for you, Mr. Shorter, was about one of my favorite saxophonists, Cannonball Adderley. Yeah.

Talk about just your work with him and, like, you guys' relationship. What was he like? So Cannonball was cool. He was very kind of, not jovial, but he liked to have a good time. And he liked to have the bounce. And his music, you know, they had a nice combination with Miles and all them.

I didn't, I did, it was the combination of JJ Johnson, Sonny Stitt, and Miles, too. Then it was real short. I did, these people like Cannibal, JJ, I played on JJ, I played on JJ, Johnson's last record. Cannonball, I saw him last at the blue note in the lower part of the New York near the Holland Tunnel and him and his brother Nat. We had conversations and something about life and stuff. But that thing about being a school teacher that was very evident.

in his mannerism when he talked about music and stuff like that, he was still attached to being a teacher in Florida. I know he taught schools in Florida, something like that. But then there's the other ones.

There's ones and they had the there's some alto saxophone players that my brother was crazy by one name Ernie Henry. And it was Danny Quebec who did the opening of Round Men, like, do-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-W-E-D-D-W-E, you know, that I, Quebec's nephew.

There's names of people that had sound, Wardell Gray, Wardle-Rae. And it's what they, Wardle-Ray, and my man who just, who did the Round-Mindnight, We sit around the jukebox. Wardle Gray had that sound, the sound that a lot of the guys wanted. Stan gets got that sound from Wardle Gray and the president,

Lesser Young. I had a discussion with Lesser Young in a nightclub up in Canada on his night off or doing a break. break. I was looking for something to drink in the club when I'm doing the break. He took me down in the cellar, the wine cellar. He said, let's go downstairs and get some real cognac. And we just talked. I didn't tell him I was in the Army. I didn't tell him I was a musician, but we talked a little bit the first. And last time I saw Lester Young in person. Oh, man.

The club on Young Street in Toronto, Canada, yeah, so that that club was something. So, but other than that, these conversations with Billy Eckstein would say something backstage, he's telling us, Art is introducing us to these guys, and Lewis Armstrong, and then Lionel Hampton, and he was shaking hands with a man, And the Lionel said, right, he called everybody Gates.

Hey, Gates, write something for my band, Gates, right something from the band, Gates. And there's Woody Herman. And so all of these people, man, I'm telling you, there's Duke Ellington. We're shaking hands with these people and moving through. And there was a, what's his name? I love it. Stump in the Q-L-S. Yes, stumping QLS.

Go ahead, Wade. Timmy, I don't know. It's not Joe. Tyamron. Tyamron. Okay. And he's named, man. And there's the ladies, too.

Oh, just shut up. Well, there's some ladies. The sweethearts of rhythm. Yes. Yeah, the sweetheart. Please say their names. jazz, yeah. Yeah, and something about the clouds of,

maybe that's originally, it was just clouds of joy, something like that, the sweethearts of rhythm. And there was Slidehampton, the Slidehampton's sister, Gladys Hampton, played drum.

Okay. She played like Philly Jo Jones. And there's Gloria Bell, who was married to George Coleman. Gloria Bell played bass. She had the jamster. She had a jamster. Give these people some homework, Wayne.

You are giving all these listeners some homework. I love it. Referencing, say their names. Yes. She had a place up in Harlem called Connie's, where we did jam sessions at Connie's. And right across the street was with Smalls Paradise.

Yes. We go back there and play the jam session. There's Nancy Wilson sitting in the audience. She was the secretary to Diane Carroll's husband at the time. Wow. Trying this stuff, starting stuff was going on. And the guy that Denzel Washington played as the gangster, the guy who ran. Frank Lucas.

Yeah, the- He'd be sitting under the bar checking out who's coming and is going. Because they had the double Park El Doradoes outside. And some people came inside, some of these high rollers, they would come inside and want to hear Miles play one note. one note. And the guy put down a big dollar, a hundred dollar bill and said, that did it. I came to hear him and I heard him. This documentary is going to be good.

You need a scripted movie too. We need everything. All it is best. There's stuff going on. This is kind of a two-parter. But when we come back for part two, I definitely want to get into your work. on your opera

with the great Esperanza Spalding and the Ikfengenia project. And so I thank you for this education. We're going to commit with a part two of Questlove Supreme with the great Wayne Shorter. And we hope you guys come and join us, okay? Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio,

visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for

to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.