The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Big Lez

Episode Date: August 5, 2020

In the words of Questlove, "Big Lez aka Leslie Segar is LEGEND....DARY!" To paraphrase him, Big Lez has been a monumental and unavoidable figure in the music diaspora since she hit the scene in the 90's. And when she hit she hit hard! Her dance moves evolved from your favorite Hip Hop video, to Remembering the Time with Michael Jackson, the opening intro of your favorite 90's TV show and beyond. That "beyond" turned out to be Lez's hugely impactful career as a TV host. Listen as Quest and Team Supreme dive into this essential Hip Hop story that shook up the world. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, our guest today is legend. Wait for it. Dairy.

Yes. Seriously. I am fanning out. Okay, just a brief, brief side note. We are, we're zooming this particular episode, so I'm looking at it right now, and I'm flustered. That's, I'm fanning out right here because she has been an unavoidable presence in every aspect of my life from those legendary final C. Martin videos from the early

90s and early 90s kind of world. Hint, hint. As a legendary choreographer, as the host of the BT staple Rap City. One of the first times I was on the show is because she's interviewing us. I mean, even her

dancing silhouette in the living single credits is etched in all of our brains as an actress, as a journalist, as a fitness instructor, as a radio host, on Dash Radio, I'm certain I'm getting on her nerves right now. As a bad bitch. Yes, I cannot believe I'm saying this.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Big Les, Leslie. Wait, pronounce your last name for it, because I always get it wrong. Everybody is like Segar or Segar. I usually say Segar. As long as you spell it right on the check, I don't even care.

All right, no, because I was calling you sugar for the long as he used to always correct me. All right. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, and please welcome to Questlove Supreme, Leslie Bigelaz Seagar. Thank you. Yes. Thank you so much for being here.

Oh, my God. This is amazing. So where are you right now? I am in Los Angeles by myself and, you know, trying to keep the sunshine, keep me smiling because it's been crazy between the protests, between, you know, quarantining. It's been an emotional role opposed to it for real. Wait, I was going to say, right now you seem like you're ready

you're like camera ready for red carpet like is for real for real this is a casual flex for you like you just wake up in the morning like I wish you know our whole lives are on Zoom now so you know I got to look presentable at least a little bit

at least from the waist up I was going to say waist down I still got my old Navy underwear on so yeah me too yeah what is your skincare regimen before we even get it to your career What is your skincare regimen? Just glow. You're glowing.

Genetic. Come on. It's genetic. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. Occasional side of vodka and a martin. So, you know.

Steve, take notes. Yeah. I want to, I want to have that shine. HR, Steve. I want you to do. We ain't got no department. It's okay. Hey, man.

I almost went down the ship earlier. So, you know, oh. I'm so proud of everything that you're doing. Congratulations. It's nice to meet all of y'all. And thank you, my sister, like, preaching out to me again. I appreciate that.

Thank you. Thank you. We've been trying to get you for a long time. This has been one of our bucket list episodes. Yeah, it's definitely a bucket list moment. And it was nice to be able to walk up to Big Les and say, can I have your number of you? Will you be on our show?

And her go, yes, of course, yes. I'm so low, meaning, like, everybody in their hangups, and I'm just like, it is what it is, you know. That's my brother right there. So, you know, it's all good. Unless, you know, if you really got to find somebody, I can hunt you down. I can make phone call, hunt you down. You can find me.

You can find me. So we, I mean, we basically at Quest Love Supreme go through the journey of everyone's life. So I'll start with question number one, and they tease me for it. Where were you born? I'm from Queens, New York. East Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, Corona. That's where I am born and raised. Be nuts.

My family from South. My mom was from my mom. I'm Augusta, Georgia. My father's got family from Virginia, but he's a New Yorker, too. So what was the environment like? Like, normally on the show, we have music figures, and, you know, the story either starts out in church or some sort of, there's always some sort of entry that leads to music. But for you, though, like, what was your environment like in Queens? It's interesting, because you start off.

a two-family household and then your parents get divorced, came from a middle-class family, literally like, you know, every neighborhood in Queens or New York really is a mixed neighborhood, Dominican, Puerto Ricans, Colombians, Cubano, Jewish, Europeans, whatever. And that's kind of what my neighborhood was. Even my high school was considered like the United Nations of New York because everybody was so mixed. And so even moving out to California and people going or realizing that the only Latinos that they were familiar with were just Mexicans, I'm like, what are you talking?

What about? What about the Ecuadorians? What about the legions? You know what I mean? So that's kind of what I grew up around. And when my parents got divorced, you know, my mom was very independent, very structured, very strict. She didn't play no games. And I only moved two blocks away from my father.

So he was still like in my life. I have an older sister. We don't get along. We are like night and day. She's four years apart. And you would think we grew up in completely different household. a miserable human being, but that's a whole other chapter.

Is it still to this day, like y'all still don't get along now? Oh, no, not at all. We're actually in court over some stuff when my father passed. Oh, that's real. Okay. Real.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, it's like that. To the point where her and my mother don't even speak. So it's, it's, you don't stop, when you stop speaking to a parent, then you know there's a problem that's somewhere in there, you know. But my parents, my mom was an educator.

She went to nurse. school, you know, raising us, but me and her, my sister. And then my dad was, he didn't finish high school, but he worked in U.S. Metal. He was a good guy, but turned out to be an alcoholic. But he was really like one of those calm alcoholics, you know what I'm saying, very loving, very friendly to everybody, but he just, I think, fell into a depression, really, when my parents got divorced, which is the irony of it all, right? Because you while out and womanized and you do all these things, but I don't think he ever healed from my mother finally. leaving him. And when my mom remarried, it's like the drinking intensified for him. So as much as I love

my father, I always knew I didn't want a man like my father. He was physically abusive, even though he was the nicest man on the block. It was that thing that happened. And my mom even said, I don't know what happened when he turned 40. He became somebody else. And I've seen it happen even within the relationships of what happens when men change or that there are men that have a broken history or something that kind of rears his head somewhere down the line. 40 is a tester. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think even for women, too.

I mean, you know, whether you're going through menopause or all this other stuff, it happens to both people at the same time. So their midlife crisis and your hormones and everybody, you don't recognize it, it becomes crazy. So when you see that in your parents, you don't understand it until you get there. But, you know, I was very structured. I was like in Girl Scouts. I was in gymnastics early.

I never missed a day of school in high school. so I got like attendance awards. I was in honors classes since third grade. I studied French for 11 years. Like all these things that my mother made sure that we were in, you know. And it's crazy because even though I grew up in a mixed neighborhood, I literally was like the black girl in mostly the only black girl in everything. I was the only black girl in my Girl Scout troop for seven years.

I was the only black girl on both my young gymnastics team and my college gymnastics team. I was the only black girl, one of four, in like all of my honors classes. So it's interesting. So when you're training for the gymnastics, in your mind is the goal like, okay, I might be an Olympic hopeful or like, or is it just to get college tuition?

Like when one enters the world of gymnastics, like what are you aspiring for? Initially for me, it was because one, I was a tomboy and two, I had too much energy. I couldn't keep still. So my mother put me in trampoline class And like a month or two later, the guy was like, she needs to be in gymnastics.

Because you know how you do all the street tumbling and all that other stuff, but it wasn't refined. And literally within a year, I started late. Most gymnasts start when they're like two and three. I started when I was 10. But by age of 11, I was competing in national competition. So my mom made the switch. And at first, it's really you just are thinking week to week

of beating someone in the competition, right? You just kind of want to be the first on bars, the first on floor. You want to win overall. You want to win a team. Because it's a team sport and it's an individual. individual sport. And it's interesting that as close as I am to my coach, the coach, of course, never signs up to be anyone's parent, but you end up spending more time with your coach than you actually do your parents who are working all the time or being a Lashke kid in New York.

So I learned a whole lot of structure from the rules of gymnastics, from showing up and being in a team sport and being held accountable for, you know, if I fall off a beam or if I show up late, or if I, you know, did 30 push-ups instead of the 50 we were supposed to do. Like there was no cheating. Otherwise, you're punished as a group. So therefore you take accountability. And those are the kind of things that have you structured going into this business. But it wasn't until, you know, you get older and you realize, okay, I'm not Olympic material. Because, of course, that's the goal.

Then it was like, well, I'm going to college. So now let me see if I can get a scholarship. And I was able to do that. Got a four-year gymnastics scholarship, which was a blessing. Were you like a gymnastics head? Like, I remember it's interesting because in the 80s, gymnastics was kind of like a thing, right? Like it was the Mary Louretton's. Mary Loretton.

Nadia Komeniche and stuff like that. American Anthem were like, were you like a head? Did you become a fan of it? No, absolutely. You know, Wild World Sports on Saturday. Watch the every domestic meet,

domestic posters all around the room. And the names escaped me, but there were only like two black gymnasts that I had seen come perform. You know what I mean? She girl, the black chick that did the black, the back flip.

Not Dominique Dawes because that was after her. No, no, not Dominique Dawes. It's the other girl. Siria Bonnelly. Well, you were... That's the ice skating. I'm tripping. That's shaking skating.

But it'll come to me. I was like, wow. I was like, it's all one big sport. I was going to say, yeah, Debbie Thomas. No, wait a... Bro. No, wrong dog. But, yeah, so it was, you know, being a black gymnast was really like being a unicorn

for most people. And then you get, like, in high school, I only competed on my high school team for one year. because they had really bad equipment. And my private gym was just like, you're going to get hurt. So they only let me do it for one year. And that one year was the year where they had like the Big Apple Games.

I won the whole region, you know, the whole thing. And it was, it was a blessing. And so when I got my scholarship, it was like, shoot, you know, your mother's like, thank God, all right. I don't have to come out of my pocket anymore. You know, it's that whole thing. You know, there weren't any HBCUs

that had gymnastics. So I literally, you know, and I knew I was going to go out of state. Like I only applied to, like, one New York school, which was upstate to Cortland, which was eight hours away. I applied to Penn State, which I got into, and I got a partial gymnastics scholarship and a partial academic scholarship, but I got a full scholarship to Springfield College, so that's what I took. So how did dancing enter your life? Like, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, you've done

so many things, but like, what was your aspiration as a 10-year-old or an 11-year-old? To my core, I'm literally like, if I could do surf to solace and dance and like, that's who I am, ice skating and all those artistic things is really who I am. And it really wasn't until two things. The TV show Solid Gold where Darcell. Darcell Wayne. Oh, my God. You don't understand. She had a home black gazelle legs.

She wore this leon tar on a long ponytail. And I'd be in my house knocking over furniture, you know, pulling my underwear up my house. trying to be like her. And, I mean, last year I had a chance to have her actually on my show. And I almost cried like a baby. Darcelle Wayne is, wait, what? She looks exactly the same.

Son. Oh, my God. And, you know, when people say you don't want to meet your idols, like be careful, when I tell you, like I could call her any day, she's giving me her number. You go out to like, you don't understand.

And that's what I watched and was like later for gymnastics. I want to dance like this. And then when fame came, I was like, I'm sold. I was going to ask was you a Debbie Allen baby? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes.

Yselle and Debbie are my two right here. But once you finish gymnastics, like, I knew I wasn't going to the Olympics, but you can only compete for four years in college for NCAA. And I had a five-year bachelor's program that I got into where I was studying sports medicine and physical therapy. But year four, you can't compete more past four years. I'm like, I'm not going to sit around. even if I'm getting my master's like, I gotta go.

I got to dance. I got to whatever. So I actually left early after I got my bachelor's. And my mother, of course, to this day is still giving me the side eye because I'm going to here to get my master's. But once I left and came back to New York and started auditioning, you know, everything was in a newspaper back then, backstage and all this other stuff. I pretty much booked everything that I auditioned for probably the first year, two years

out the gate. And my mother was like, still giving me the side of when you're going back to school. when you go back. It's still to this day. My mother can't believe that cartwheels is the thing that's having to travel around the globe and TV shows and make. She's like, how did this happen?

She's still scratching her head. And, Liz, at what point did you know that you were physically different than the other ladies that usually exceed in these things? Well, my body has always been a topic of discussion. You know, third grade, I was literally wearing a bra. So I was bigger chested and I had to deal with a boy

snapping my bra and calling me like bubonic group. Third grade! First grade, I was wearing a bra. So, and then, like, being tall, I'm 5'4 foot 6. So being taller of the gymnast, you look at, you know, somebody like Simone Biles and she literally is up to, like, my breast. And most gymnasts or people think that you can only do gymnastics if you're, like, 4 foot 8. So, but when you see college gymnasts, we're really probably all around the same size.

You know what I mean? Probably most people started late. But it took a long time. Like, if you see me now, I'm naked half the time. Like, I've never done any nudity. but I had issues growing up because I was always very muscular. I was always very athletic. And guys would just be like, you look like a linebacker.

Why are you so muscular? You got no muscle for me. So I really didn't even take my shirt off at the beach until I was like a junior, senior, and college. So now you can't keep clothes on me. And now your body is the model to it what a lot of women pay to look like, which is ill, right? But it's crazy too because even the name Big Les came,

based on who's the big girl doing backflips? And that was like, how he asked the producer that? And they were like, oh, that's just Les. And somebody just literally said, Big Les, come here. And that's really how it happened. Who's the big girl doing backwards? And I say to people, you don't know me, well, I do gymnastics. And they're like, yeah, right.

Maybe you run track. Maybe you play basketball. Gymnastics, never. And I'm like, I can't even dribble. What are you, sorry. I'm a gym. You know, and then I have to kind of show and prove. And it's happened a lot of gigs.

Like, you don't do gymnastics. And I'll be like, can you move over? three back hands, rings and a full twist. And they're like, oh, okay. Can you still achieve that now? Absolutely. I don't know if you've seen my Instagram. I do things with softer landings now.

I do trapeze and I do trampoline. I had to have some major surgery a couple of years ago, which I'm actually working on my documentary, so I'll take everybody through it. But I didn't think I'd be able to tumble again. So I just have to have softer landings, or even if you saw the don't, the, Don't Rush Challenge.

We did one with the dances. That was so dope. So I'm flipping in that too. So, yeah, I'll flip into cement pools. And, yeah, I can still tumble. I just may need some I've been roping after a little icebox. My mama still got it. What prompted you?

I know that you said that you started, well, with the album. You mentioned backstage newspaper. I mean, that that was such a staple in my household because my sister would, you know, try to land auditions and all those things. So, like, I mean, at the time, how did you get into the rotation of what is known as choreography work or your video work?

Like, what was your first professional job that you booked? Oh, God. The actual, because I was doing, it's crazy. You know, being a club kid in New York, and I don't know how much you guys know about the club scene, but back then in the 90s, everybody hung out, right? all the record label execs, all the artists,

there were cyphers over there, there were dance battles over there, and everybody actually had business cards. And that's kind of how work happened for me, because there was no internet. There was no telephones. There was nothing. It was a business card.

We're calling the receptionist or watching the music video, saying MCA records, let me call front deaths, find out, blah, blah, blah. There were two major jobs that happened for me that really weren't mainstream. One, that I got hired to be a cheerleader for a full force game that they were doing for WBLS. I'd never really cheerleaded, but it was mostly dancing.

anyway, and I got to do backflips across the gym. By the time I finished, and we had to head back into the locker room, there must have been about six people from different labels, some artists. I need you in my video. I need you to dance from my artist, blah, blah, blah. Then I did an off-Broadway play. I audition for that, and ironically, the play was me, Wyclef, Lauren came somewhere along the line,

and we were all just club kids from New York to New Jersey, whatever. And Big Beat Records, Big Beat Records was going to grab the play and produce it. And what's his name? Calman, Calman. Craig Common, Craig Common. Right. Had an artist, Jay Williams.

I'm going to sweat, sweat, sweat, sweat, sweat, to my soap and wet, those of you who know House Music. House music, yeah. House music, yeah. That was a huge, huge, huge record. That was my first artist, and we toured all over the country. And literally from people seeing me on that, as one of his dancers, we were called Hugs and Kisses.

And we were doing every club, the sound factory, the garage, I mean, just every club late night, three clubs a night, four clubs a night, to four or five o'clock in the morning. And people would be in the clubs, and that's how I got my work. You went to the legendary garage? Oh, I still have my garage card. Wait, let me pull it up on the phone. I still have my garage card.

Of course, the world, the choice. I'm telling you, I was like, straight and straight. You got to dance for music that Larry Levinz spun. That's crazy to me. Louis Vega. Robert Owens, all of them, man. Just, yeah. How immersed were you in New York club?

That's your quarter. Oh, here we go. Let's see it. I was speaking to the club scene. Like, you know, breaking curfew the whole bit. But most people think it's, I mean, because being up from Queens, right, I actually went to school with, you know, kid and play, Herbie, Wiz and I, DJ Wiz, and I went to elementary school together.

They're a little older than my sister's age, but we all grew up in the same area. So all the jams in the park with them and the disco twins and stuff is really like from my era and my people. And so I was immersed into hip hop early on. You know what I mean? Like all the battles sneaking into all the clubs. And somehow I got into house music, like really hardcore. So I'm a house dancer before I'm a hip hop dancer, which most people don't know. Yeah, and I would love to see that.

Oh, my God. Right? Yeah. Because it's just offered some sort of spirituality that I don't. get as a dancer from hip hop, right? Because the movements are just liquid and you just kind of close your eyes and stand by the speaker and it just is infectious to you. And that's kind of what it did for me and got me into like really battling and stuff. I was a house battle dancer before I was anything regarding hip hop. So I'm trying to find my garage card for you while I'm

talking to you. Wow. That's amazing. You still carry your garage card on you. It's on my phone somewhere. Wow. You see the year? Oh my God. Hi, something. Looking like a baby. Scary. Did you ever actually get this,

Hear Larry Spin? I can't remember what the year he died. Yes. You got to hear him spin. Wow. So dope. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, the garage was just, you know, between Grace Jones showing up and Liz Torres and all these artists and performing at like four or five o'clock in the morning. and you would leave the garage, drenched, you'd always bring a different pack of clothes, you'd be leaving by the time people were going to work

and the sun would be coming up, you know? And it was a lifestyle. You could be broke as hell, but all the security guards knew who the dancers were, you know what I mean, who just kept the parties going. So even if I was underage or didn't have any money, I never had to pay to get in. And Washington Square Park was like The Hangout.

That's kind of where we all just manifested, learn new moves, who knew about this audition or whatever? And it was just kind of like, Like that was our pipeline. We were all broke, knapsack kids, whatever. But that was like the best times in my life. I was going to say, especially what we're going through right now in New York City, a lot of people are kind of hoping that with the mass exodus of the factor that's leaving New York,

which I'll say is the gentrification factor, you know, everyone, all of them are running to the hills now. people are sort of wondering, you know, what type of New York will develop post-2020. And, you know, a friend of mine said that, well, hopefully, you know, the creativity and the artists will come back downtown as they used to before, you know, the gentrification culture. But for you, like, are you one of those people that just has a romantic feeling of New York when it was its most, dangerous per se or is dangerous sort of like a subjective opinion? Oh no. I love my

old school grimy, large rats, trash in the street. Keep shows on 42nd Street. The Israelites on the corner talking like great dances. Like that's my quintessential New York. And I feel bad for the people who come to New York for the first time now.

And it's like Universal Studios. Like you don't get to see the graffiti on a train, which to me was like the artwork of artwork. You know, the late, the clubs are just whatever, and they still don't know the difference between, you know, bridge and tunnel night, which is a regular Friday and Saturday night and all that other stuff. And for those people who don't know what that is,

it's like true New Yorkers only go to the club literally from Sunday to Thursday. Ridge and Tunnel is people from Jersey, Connecticut, Philadelphia, who want to come in New York for the weekend. Get in the way, they just get in our way. Okay, I get it, I get it. I love you, Philly, I do. The day that I arrived in New York City was literally like day one of the Disneyfication of 42nd Street. So I thought it was great.

I was like, oh, man, this is really amazing. You know, and only to find out that, no, everyone else was mourning the loss of New York City. I mean, it's cute. And sure, you know, we all have to be progressive and all that other stuff. But you kind of want New York to be what it's always been known for. And I'm not afraid of the growth. It's cute and it's beautiful and sure And I mean, I'm actually kind of selfishly glad

That I got to experience it And it's still my version of New York I don't even recognize it when I go home anymore I barely even recognize Queens All the restaurants, all the people All the things that were so culturally ours Seems to be stripped away And I know every major city

Yeah, and I don't know if it's ever going to come back, you know? It will. That's what I was going to ask. Do you feel like it will return or? I don't know. just feel like the inspiration, the inspiration that New York bore was an originality

of thought that came from the things that you see. Like, because I'm trapped in my car here in L.A. all the time, my sensibilities have dumbed down, right? Because I'm not around. My senses aren't as sharp. I don't get to see or smell or hear other languages and other

people. It's like isolation. Yeah, but when I go home, the first couple of days, I'm like soaking it all in. I'll walk from Central Park all the way down to Canal Street just cause, and I feel like I've learned or gained so much culture just because I've been away. But for those people who were in New York used to creating this culture that's now been stripped away, I feel like, you know, they're kind of moving to the outskirts or downtown or whatever, and they're not as creative or original as they used to be or the people that before them came. You know what I mean? Does that make

sense? Yes, it makes sense. So when you're, when you're, I'm jumping back to your first gigs as a dancer, when you were first hired as a dancer, did you start off as choreographer or is that sort of like a shame that you have to work your way up to? Usually you kind of have to work your way up to it. It really kind of happened to me. Nothing's an accident. My first major tour was the Key Sweat, Triple Threat tour, BPD, Johnny Gill, Keith Slep. Wow. And literally my jobs after that came from being seen by the

artists in the audience who would come backstage like Guy, Teddy Riley and Aaron Hall would be like, you have to dance for us and meet me by the dressing room. Or it happened, same thing with Heavy D. You know, when Hav lost the guys and was like, I'm going to have girl dancers, he literally, I saw him in

the audience, and by the time we got to the dressing room, he was standing in front of our doors like, I need you to dance for me. So that's kind of how those things happened. I'm sorry, I missed your question. Did I answer it? I don't think I did. Yeah, no, you told me the process of it.

But what I wanted to know was who was the choreographer of the moment when you entered the game of doing these legendary videos? Like, did they trust you to make up the steps or who was the person that was at the person that was at the helm. So to answer your original question, choreography happened for me because people always thought that I was the principal dancer because I was in front.

And they assumed that I choreographed stuff. And a lot of times the choreographers who had the job would show up unprepared and be like, okay, I need an A count or I need a four count over here and we ended up doing more of the work. And I just was like, aren't you getting paid for this? Like, wait, what?

And so the next time somebody asked me, I said, yeah, I choreographed it, which was kind of a lie. Good. I want you to photograph my project. And then that's kind of how I switched up the deal is I was probably getting paid more than anyone else as a dancer. And then I started realizing how much money choreographers were making, like, oh, snap. But choreographers then, there weren't really many any females. They were like Peek-Caboo, Donovan. They were the guys from the mop-top crew, like Stretch and Henry

and Link. Rosie Perez probably was one of the females who were around. And Rosie would be the first to tell you, like she's a creative visionary versus being a dancer dancer. You know what I mean? She's somebody who can move well and we've seen her throw it back, you know, on Soul Train and stuff, but she'll tell you she's not a dancer dancer. But she has great vision, you know. So those were some of the people who really, for me, were hiring me a lot. Darren Henson started to do a lot of choreography dance.

Yeah. Music Factory. So he was hiring me a lot. And then I was getting hired by the directors directly. Lionel Martin, Millicent Shelton was really doing a lot of the music videos then that I had, you know, dance. Paris, Paris Barclay, too, right? Paris Barclay, he did around the pay girl, you know, and Able, you did the TV and stuff. But I was there for a lot of beginning, you know, Jeff Bird, even while, you know, Benny Boom was moving Appleboxes for Lionel.

Like, you know, I was all there at the beginning of these careers. Nobody, everybody was just getting put on, you know. And so there were a lot of, Rosie was really the only. only one who initially first was the head choreographer as far as females go and then Tina Landon as well. Tina Landon. Yes, Tina Landon. Yes. He was doing Janet on the West Coast. And I was still dancing and then really transitioning into choreography. And then you kind of have to decide for yourself, can you do both? Now can I put myself in the front? Am I going to be subjective to knowing what the choreography looks like as well as dancing it and being that whole thing? And I did

it for a while. And the reason I ended up stepping out of dance, Ratt City came along, which you know, was a blessing. Can I just ask on a dancing tip, at some point, because you made that transition to choreographer and because you're a New York dancer, did other folks of other generations and genres reach out to you? Because in my mind, I'm like, wow, did you get to talk to like the Judith Jamison, the George Faisons and the Debbie Allen's of the world that were? No, because they were really, I think, doing more Broadway and TV. TV at that time. They were tapped into music videos and touring

and even hip hop per se. They may have maybe started to introduce it a lot if they were still teaching class. Because you're on Oprah. At some point you're on Oprah. They got to know who is this girl, right? Right, right. But I mean, and you never know who's watching. Like, it's the craziest thing. You just, when you meet people and they're like, hey, you know, I saw you dance when you're like,

oh my God, that's George Clooney. You know me? Like, and I'm just, I've never met him, but I'm just, people who have a name. You're just like, oh, snap. You never know who's watching you. So I didn't get to meet them during that time or really dance in their world. They were more theatrical. The one person I did get a chance to meet,

obviously, was Otis Elite, who really is of that genre, and he's the one who did the Living Single intro. Oh. No, Otis Delead is the one who was like a directographer. He did school days choreography, you know, good and bad hair and all that stuff. He did pop and Malcolm X. Like, he's a genius, a genius. a genius.

And I was just so grateful that he even called me because I was still, I was on tour when they were doing auditions from Malcolm X. And Lindy Hoppe is my favorite genre of life. And I found out about the audition too late, but I was able to go to one of the rehearsals, introduced myself to him. Lori Ann, I think, was working on that.

Made the introduction, but I was too late. So I got to do extra work in the film. Cut to a year or a month later, whenever it happened, I get a phone call. and it's Otis on the other line, and you're like, is this really you? Like, it's like Michael Jackson calling your phone. Like, that's what it felt.

You need the answer, like, no, this can't be. The Otis the lead, sure, whatever you need, you know? Wow. So what was it like when Michael Jackson actually called your phone? Whoa, whoa, don't scare. Now I'm thinking about it like, damn. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network,

It's Will Farrell My dad gave me the best advice ever I went and had lunch with him one day And I was like And dad I think I want to really give this a shot I don't know what that means But I just know the groundlings I'm working my way up through

And I know it's a place that come Look for up and coming talent He said if it was based solely on talent I wouldn't worry about you Which is really sweet Yeah He goes but there's so much luck involved And he's like

Just give it a shot He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what I want to know is, though, is how competitive was it? And I don't mean from like a caddy sort of thing, but like in terms of booking gigs, were you your own agent, were you your own manager? Like, how's one able to secure gigs? How's one able to solidify? because as far as I know, growing up watching these specific videos, I mean, there was a point where either, I mean, you're already named Millicent and Paris,

but like Lionel C. Martin damn near did, like at one point, I'm certain that he did 60 to 70% of all the output. Yeah, on Rap City. That I saw on. And so it's like on the other side of that coin, what was the environment like as far as far. as being chosen. Like, yes, we definitely know who you are,

but, like, you know, there's also Josie Harris. There's, like, other household names that I know in the game. Like, how does one navigate? Like, was it caddy? Was it just like, hey, there's enough work for all of us? Like, what was the environment like? It's interesting because at first it started off

where everybody's calling each other like, yo, there's an audition for this. There's an audition for that. Then for me, it got to a point where I would always call everyone. Remember, I come from team sports. So it's like even if you compete against somebody one weekend and they beat you, you got a whole week or two weeks to come back and beat them. Right?

So it's all fair game. The industry is not like that. There's a lot of jealousy and animosity. So I remember going to an audition and the people that I normally called or we call each other. Suddenly nobody called me. And I got the call like at the last minute. and I show up and all my friends are there. And I'm like, how come nobody called me?

And one of my really close friends said, because you book all the jobs, we just want to work. And that's when I literally was changed from that. I became somebody who was like this now. I'm not saying anything to anybody. I'm keeping the work to myself. And that's not even my character. And literally, it just was like,

now I'm really going to book these gigs. Now I'm really going to show up and show out and make sure that I take that I take, this opportunity away from you just because it's my blessing and I work harder than everybody else because I'm the chick who gets up earlier in the morning and still works out and does what needs to be done. But okay, if that's your hate, then that's what it is. But back then, like I said, everybody was their own age. And I remember making calls as my own assistant, changing my voice, you know, sending different nutters or whatever cases and booking gigs and negotiating my price

and stuff. But the calls back then came direct where you just gave people your number. They gave you either the business card or the number to the label, and they were just calling me direct, and I just would have to pretend to be someone else to negotiate my rate. Oh, wow. Okay, now I really got to get into the business. Is there such a thing as a union? And if you don't mind me asking, okay, if it's 1990 or 1991, what was considered a good booking? I'm certain that rate wise, right? You're asking the mirror? Yeah, rate wise.

Like, you know, in my field, like, if I like somebody, nine times out, Tim, I'm not, you know, I won't charge him. I mean, I'm at a place now where I'm comfortable. But, you know, if you're using this to survive day to day, what's like a friends and family discount? Like, all right, I'll hook you up because you guys have a low budget. I really like the song versus, like, what's a good booking? Well, I don't think.

And when I talk to dancers now, because there was never a union back then, you really had to feast or famine. And artists always made you feel like dancers come a dime does, and we can get somebody else. So either you would underbid another choreographer, which has happened, or you would just settle for less money just so you can get the gig. And now that even though there are more agencies and stuff like that, I think what the scale is is still not where it should be. So dancers really are doing it for the passion and not for the money. Back then, I think day rates were probably like $250 for rehearsal. We're talking like anywhere from four to eight hours, maybe $500 for a shoot day. Choreographers would get more, maybe than $700,000 a week if you were going on tour.

Like that's when you look at the big scheme of things and all that we're doing and contributing to this artwork and these visuals, it's not a lot of money based on other people. But artists try to put you on retainer and just hold you for no so nobody else could? Oh, no, no. There was no such thing as retainer. They're not spending that money. There's no such things with contracts. They're not doing it.

My first job on the Key Sweat Tour, I cried like a baby because I had a real job. And so I was able to take a leave of absence, which I didn't even know was an option. He broke his foot on that tour. And I'm like, oh, my God, this tour's about the end. I have to go back to a real job. But he kept going. But there's no concrete safety net about what's going to happen. if a tour or a project dissolves.

There may be more coverage now, depending on whether it's a commercial or a TV show where the union kind of gets involved and it's under Sag and After. But there are barely any artists who ever pay retainer for their band or for the dancers. They really want to have to have you

and keep you and not want to share you with somebody else for that to happen. And then, you know, they're always in some sort of financial disagreement with the label anyway about their money being spent. So the last thing on their mind is keeping dancers. We're the first to go. They don't want to have to buy, you know, stage wear.

They don't have to get hair and makeup. They don't have to do any of that stuff. But, you know, I don't set with tour buses, hotels rooms. Like, yeah, that comes with a price for your stage show. Yeah, I'll wait. Because I know that you were part of the Bobby campaign, his third album, of which when I saw y'all, it was like 97. people on stage. I was wondering how that per diem work.

What do you consider the first video that was your breakout moment? Was it Mary or like? Oh, no. I think my, it might have been around the way girl for most people. I'm not going to, like, it doesn't highlight my best work. The video for me that highlights my best work as a dancer is the artist, a diva. She's a house of a diva. Yeah, a diva. Yeah, Yeah, we had a video called, it should have been me. And we did a scene that was kind of like the Blues Brothers, where Jim Belushi or John Belushi, excuse me, did backflips down the church aisle.

And that was the whole theme of the video. And I actually got hired to be a dancer with the ensemble cast. And Big Mike Ellis was the first AD on that. And I forget who was actually directing it. And they had hired somebody to do trampoline work and tumble, and they were horrible. So I was like, Mike, tell them I can do it. So Mike told whoever the director was that she can do it, that I could do it.

And the director was like, yeah, right. And I'm like, no. And again, it became one of these, like, tell everybody to clear the aisle and literally did, you can see it on YouTube, did like three or four backflips down the aisle, whatever. And of course, it made the film. And they had to pay me for that too.

So shout to Mike Ellis for making that happen. Oh, flipping is extra. Yeah. Flipping requires another invoice. But it takes you a minute to realize that you're worth and that you can actually go for these things because you don't realize, you know, and there's no standard that was set for you as a dancer, you know what I mean?

So you kind of figure it out as you're going on, and then you try it. Like if you say, if you find out one choreographer's making, you know, 500, forget how bad you want the job. Well, I'm worth 15. And you're like, well, we only have, nope, you came to me, and then you kind of like, they fell for it. That's going to be my right now on.

You know what I mean? So, uh, let's let's go there. Remember the time. Um, no, with remember the time,

with Michael Jackson being, uh, at his somewhat apex. I mean, I, I kind of consider that probably okay, I'll let scream go in there too.

But like, back when a Michael Jackson video was an event. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Was that a Mount Fiji of achievement as far as videos work was concerned? Like, was that the best treatment? Was that the most professional atmosphere? Or, you know, was it the story of like, oh, the bigger the artist, the cheaper and, you know,

like, what was that experience like? That was everything that you wish for as a dancer. I found out about the audition like on a Wednesday night like on a Wednesday I was in New York bunch of dancers like oh my God we're scrambling it's on Saturday or maybe like even that Thursday I found out

broke as fuck had to beg my mother for money to get on a plane like mom please please please found out Fatina was choreographing we were hanging out she was like you can come you can audition I can't make promises to anybody so I was like cool I end up staying with her she's like I can't

you know the director has final say blah blah a bunch of us were able to get on a plane and literally John Singleton have been a fan of New York dancers. So he kind of knew who a lot of us were when we showed up at the audition. And once you book the gig and you make that call home, like, oh my God, mom, I got it. So then we're having auditions, I mean, rehearsals and we haven't met Michael yet, right? We're probably two, three weeks into rehearsals and we still haven't seen Michael yet because Michael's having his private rehearsals with Fatima. So. And did you know beforehand that it was going to be for Michael Jackson video? Oh, yeah. He knew exactly.

He's probably got on a plane. Like, that's the only reason why you start begging for money is like, oh, please, I know I can book this. Just get me there, please. And so once we get into rehearsals, we're also given a book that looks like the phone book for those who don't know. It's like this big, which is a contract.

Pretty much don't look at him. Don't talk to him. Don't talk to bubbles. Don't ask the questions. Don't take the picture. Like, just whatever you can think of is in this contract. So Michael shows up and it is literally, now, oh, let me back up a little bit because,

Because once John Singleton said, we want you, you, you, you, you, which say, just say 10 dancers from New York hopped on a plane. Maybe eight of us got hired. And so they gave us per diem. They put a lot of people up in a hotel or, you know, we had places to stay because everybody kind of planned on, you know, we were all broke, finding places to stay. But they gave us us for DM because we knew we flew out there. and wardrobe, hair, makeup to show up to Universal Studios is the dream of dreams, right? It's everything that you can imagine.

When you pull up the first day, you see these gates, and say Universal Studios, and you're actually allowed on, and you hear the wind blowing and the harp playing and all that, like, that's what it was. The rehearsal was great. We're three weeks into rehearsals, two weeks into rehearsals. Michael comes in a couple of days before we shoot. and he's speaking to everybody like,

hey, everybody in his soft voice. Hi, how you guys doing? But everybody's so paranoid, like, don't look at him, don't talk to him. We're not allowed to. We're kind of like this. And so he shows us what the routine looks like first. So we do, we watch him do the routine,

and all of us are like, uh-oh, we didn't learn it like that. That's not what we learned, yeah. No, no, no. Oh, no. His stank, his groove, like he was on some other shit. We were just like, five, six, seven. Mike was like, one, two, three, four, four, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Like, we were all like, oh, now. So we really, thank God had, like, two or three more days before the shoot to get in there and step our game up. And then when we got on set, that was like a whole other euphoria. Because then Michael's hanging out with us, and artists tend to hang out with the dancers, right?

We're like the cool kids. We kind of don't care or we're over there just, practicing our stuff. And so he's talking to us. And to hear Michael Jackson curse like, no, fuck that man. You're like, you forget that he's cursing or that he's, you know what I'm saying? That's Joe Jackson's son. Right. And he's like, wow, he's hip. But you forget that they're home by themselves watching the LL Cool J video, jamming to Mary J Blige, groving the guy or whatever they're doing. And you just think, that they're not human or in this bubble,

and he really was, like, cool with us. And to be on that set, every star that you could imagine was coming to visit, just to hang out whether it was John Singleton or hang out with, you know, those Magic Johnson's in it, so his friends and the whole Lakers team is rolling up.

You're just like, hey. Did you with Eddie hang? Did you know, Eddie hang at all? We didn't hang. Like, you know, you're just kind of scared to, like, step over any boundaries. But everybody's coming. They want to take pictures with us because they love our costumes.

You know, we're on set with everything and everybody. Like, it was just magic. Anything that you can dream of as a dancer, this was the dream Pinnacle Project, hands down of all time. That's amazing. And it was an event. When it was time for it to, like, debut on MTV, it literally was like 20 of us in a hotel room telling all of our family.

Oh, my God, it's going to air it. Like, it was a thing. Yeah. And then to see it and then to see that you made the edit, like, oh, they're high up again. Like, oh my God Come on. And you couldn't replay it back then

so you had to wait for it to re-air. You know what I mean? But can we talk about everybody's favorite edit? I know the guys ain't going to say it because they ain't going to say it. But the favorite edit. The favorite edit, when it's the part

when Les is doing her thing and then it's a dude that go under and it's just, the whole world just, okay, never mind. Do nobody never ever notice that Les' whole world gets shaken up in the middle of her dancing and nobody.

A guy comes in between. Like, I basically remember, okay. I'm not the only one that, I mean, I was. This is like the Heather Hunter interview. You're going to ask all the questions. No, I don't know. I'm sorry, maybe just me, act like I didn't say that. This is a professional interview.

Sorry about that list. It was just me. No, but I get that a lot. Even from, you know, as Quest was talking about Bobby Brown, the humping around video. Here I am with the hands and, you know. Yeah. I think it happened on deaf comedy jam.

Martin pulls me on stage and it's the head. I'm used to it, you know. Oh, wait. So that being said, let me ask you a serious question then. Oh, whoa. Oh, damn it. Because I want her to tell me the polar opposite story. Okay.

You told me the greatest video story for you. What was the word? You don't even have to name names. Now, give me the polar opposite story. What was a bad experience? Hmm. You don't have to name names if you don't want. No, no, I don't think it was, I don't remember a really hard.

project. For me, it was touring scenarios. There were two artists that I toured with where, and I'm sure Bobby probably said it when you talked to him about like all the dancers and stuff arguing and whatever. Like, but it's family members too. Like it's just, you get all these people who are on tour who don't do any of the creative work, but by nepotism take, I can do whatever and I'm here and I'm not going anywhere. Oh, the crew. the crew, the cousins, the whoever. But you can't say anything because that's their family. So you'll get fired before they do.

And here they come, whether they're smoking on the dancers bus or they're selling like tickets on the side and like, that's your brother and you're selling his, you know what I'm saying? But there was like one artist that I worked for who really was just like, y'all ain't shit. I can get new dances in here tomorrow. And we were on a tour with other artists that had dances.

I need you to bust their ass every day. And he was so arrogant and so obnoxious that I never spoke to him, ever, ever, ever spoke to him unless I absolutely had to. And I'll probably reveal this when I do my documentary about who it is. But it's funny how years happened or how many people end up respecting you because you didn't kiss their ass. I ended up living in the same building as this artist years later. And we became really, not really good of friends, but to a point where he asked me to be part of like his race. show and all this other stuff later. And I was like, secretly, he probably had respect to me

that I wasn't trying to kiss his ass or be his friend. Because that's what happens, right? Is everybody wants to be friends with the artist, but as opposed to, you know, creating really true friendships, right? Just because of the hype of, yeah, I can call Usher up every day because I dance for him as opposed to you and Usher really having a bond like that and becoming best friends. So, yeah.

Yeah. So how toxic is the proverbial casting couch during this period between the 90s and I don't know when the end of your bracket is as far as the choreography world is concerned? Because I know it had to have been toxic as hell. That casting couch is real, as real then as it is today. And I don't think Me Too really has kind of slowed much of the same. Not in the music business. No, not at all.

And remember, I got it from the dance side, from the radio side, from the TV side. Like, it's, you know, and I've never had to sleep my way to the top. Like, you got to work for backflips. I wasn't, you know what I mean? Like, I can't, you got to pay for that. Like, you need me more than I need you. But I have been proposition where it's like, well, you know, you won't even have to audition. You just, you know, get on your knees over here.

suck me off over here, you should let me take you out over here, and that kind of a thing. Like, it's some real stuff, and you have to kind of really know who you are. I probably have more fear of my mother or the fear of disappointing my mother than I did worrying about a job. You know what I mean? And it's not about being arrogant or confident. You also have to know what your worth is or that, all right, well, this ain't meant for me. It's not.

I think for me coming into the business, I had so much fear about the stories and the drugs. But one of my first gigs is doing, like, the Lou Rawls' Telethon. and we're hanging out. And I don't want to snitch on this. That's the day. My own way. I doubt it's back to hear Lou Rawls. I wouldn't know.

Remember he had that huge telethon. No, I remember. You all right? You should come on. All the college fun, right? Absolutely. Yes. I was dancing on some of that.

I was dancing for, like, I think, uh, Big Daddy Kane or a Kuhmodea I think I was dancing for or something. And then, like, all these artists and stuff are backstage, whether it's shock and con and this person and that person. And you start, they're like, Want to hang out with the dances and then you get into somebody's limo. And next thing you know, you see them doing cocaine, like, these are my first. And I'm like, this is really real.

This is the stuff that you read about. Like, oh, snap. So-and-so, oh, snap. You know what I mean? But you kind of have to be like, okay, let me keep it together, blah, blah, blah. But you are. You're hit up by the casting couch and these scoundrels who are just like, think it's okay to proposition you and that you're not going to say anything

or that you want the job really bad. And I'm not that she wanted a job really that bad because I believed in my gift. And I think if I had not had my gymnastic background and had so much success in that or had, you know, the wisdom of the women that nurtured me growing up that I could have been somebody else

who would have been thirsty for a job. I think the adverse reaction now is that those same guys who didn't get any ass from me, even though they know the body of work that I have, their ego is so damaged that, They won't hire me till this day. So that's their version of blacklisting me or being

mad that I didn't give them any ass kind of the thing. Yeah, I was going to ask, what is the repercussion of saying no and standing up for yourself? Like, is it this particular artist will blackball you or even worse, this particular CEO of a label will blackball you

or video director? Yeah, it was never blatant. I believe, though, there may be a couple the times where I didn't get the return phone call or I didn't get the meeting or I somebody else got hired because of me, but it was never to my face. Oh, well, you didn't give me this or because it was never that. And they may still speak to me or say hi just on whether it's nostalgia or to show me that they're an executive at a label or whatever now or they'll even take a meeting, but they won't hire me. They want me to see their corner window office or whatever and be like,

yeah, so what can I do for you? Or, you know, they expect you to be in their face now and that your mind has changed because you've blown up. And I'm ready to break you off. And like, nah, kid, that's not it. But curious though, Les, because even after the casting counts, like, after you have the job and you've earned the job, we know that, like, that doesn't stop then. So I'm just curious for you, like, what was your line of defense?

And at what point did, for lack of a better term, niggas get the point and stop asking? Because I know after a while, it was just like, oh, I can, let me try, every try it. Who's that? Oh, I ain't hit it yet. Maybe you could make, when did it go? Okay, you know what?

I know Les and she ain't the one. Well, I think being a loud-ass New York and just be like, get the fuck out of here. You know what I'm saying? That was your offense. That's, you know, you're very upfront and very, I'm a very loud, very upfront cursiting out 2.2 seconds. Like, for real. I think being a muscular chick and being very physical is kind of intimidating too. You know, I've never had anybody grab me and I feel sorry for all the women who were backed into a corner like that.

But I've never been backed into a corner like that or I think I kind of just look like I. I'm ready to knuckle up. So I don't, you know, but. That's dope. There are, you know, those repercussions. But for me, it's like, there's nothing attractive about being one of 10 other women who have slept with the same dude in the room. Like, that's not cute.

I don't ever want to be that chick. No matter how fine you are, what team you play for, whatever the case is, there's nothing sexy about being one of 20 that you all. You know, he can be like this, this, this, this, that, and the other. And I've never fuck anybody who had control over my money. You're not going to dictate to me. Facts. whether I have to go on how much I make,

or you get to fuck 10 people and I can only fuck with you, and the minute you see me with somebody else, then you fire me and I lose the job and all that other stuff. So no, we're going to keep it, whatever. So I've never slept with the artist. Maybe the drummer, keyboard player. Who loves it. That's a promo.

But it's safe to say that you've never felt powerless in this career. No. I don't think I've, um, I've never felt desperate enough to feel like I have to do this, that, and the other for this job. What was the moment that led to you sort of ease out of your comfort zone and go into being a personality? Because I've seen you on many of your red carpet doing Rap City. Was that your first job as a? Like, how did you know that you had a personality? Because it's, it's, you know, even, even for me to ease into this zone is a little weird.

Like, just because I'm a public figure, it doesn't mean that, you know, just because you could do that, doesn't mean that you can carry a conversation, go to be engaging and all that something's true. You're really engaging. Like, you are a personality. It's almost like, you know, when I, when I saw that, you first started like doing red carpet stuff and starting with Rap City, I was like, oh, she's a natural. Like she is a personality. Like, where did that come from? Wow. Thank you for saying that.

For real. It's interesting. The things that you write in your diary have so much power. When I was in high school, I was going to study journalism. And I took like three journalism classes. And the last one I took, I didn't like it. I was like, I was switching to sports medicine and athletic training and all that other stuff. But I still always kept a journal.

I always still wrote short stories and always kind of like been inquisitive by nature. Rap City is a blessing. that came after I did not become a fly girl. Like, that's a whole other thing. I was curious if you audition. I didn't want to ask. That's so, okay. Oh, yeah.

What gigs didn't you get that you wanted? Well, being a fly girl was the gig that I wanted more than anything. Wow. Literally did not get it. And it was already, like, set up, I had the best audition. All the local news channels are interviewing me.

I did all these flips and this, that, and others. Everybody knew you. It was the New York fam, the way-ins, than Rosie and... Yeah, but Rosie came over to me, sidebar was like, can you lose 10 pounds? And Jennifer had already been on the show. And I'm like, but Jen at the time was bigger than I was.

Like, I was really muscular, but she was thicker. And then I found out that, you know, by Josie's own words, that she had been approached well before the audition by, I guess one of the way it's called her and said, listen, we need you to show up, but we want to know if you want the gig. So she pretty much already had it and just kind of had to look like she had to audition. And, you know, usually they do what's called typecasting. You say you want somebody light skin this tall, Latino women, black women, whatever.

You're very specific. This was an open audition. But they already knew who they wanted and what they wanted. And Rosie years later came and apologized for even asking me that question and wishing that she had fought for me because she knew that I was the baddest dancer in the room at that time. But rejection is God's protection, right? After I'm licking my wound and I don't get fly girl, I go on. Madeline Wood's show Video LP.

Video LP, yeah. And dance on the show. I'm talking about all these artists that I've worked with, you know, as a dancer, that you spend time with on the tour bus and in rehearsal, so you know them more than the fans do. Sometimes even better than the family does. And so they're like, you know these people. He's been around them even before some of them had their deals.

And would you like to audition for Rap City? And I audition and the producer Keith Pachel and Sanita Brooks and Eric Watson still had to fight with me, had to fight for, me with the producers upstairs because, one, I didn't look a certain way, right? There goes our lovely black-on-black colorism. And there wasn't a female voice really in hip-hop on that level other than Dee Barnes, who came before me. But once they were able to give me a couple of episodes to prove myself, I got the job.

But they were gracious enough to let me do the show while I was still dancing. I think I was on tour with Heavy D. and it worked into their benefit because now as we're city to city, I could do interviews in city to city and they didn't have to pay like any extra for it. So I could catch up with Common in Chicago and so and so and so. When it became too much, they were like, you're going to have to choose. And by that time, you know, I had already done like 15 years of gymnastics, even though I wasn't ready to quit dancing, but I had transitioned into choreography.

I was still doing more choreography and I couldn't tour. So I just kind of was like, let me focus on TV all together. And that's kind of how that happened. and then radio was born from that. I think the thing I used to always like about you hosting Rap City, I would notice how a lot of times guests would change up who they were with you in a way that they wouldn't with like D or, you know, Chris Thomas or whoever. I remember it was a boogie monsters episode.

Oh, shit. One of the guys, he was trying, yo, he was trying so hard to kick it to you. I can't remember which one it was. Yo, man, I'm sorry. We all try to kick it to the last year. But I mean, but it was so obvious, though. He was like talking about my shirt that day. I was like, you know that first day of school feeling when you staring at the outfit?

I ironed my shirt. You know, iron shit. I get out of bed. I was like, yo, we're doing Rap City today. Let me use my good shirt. The blessing that happened for me with that is that a lot of the labels and the artists would request me. And I think because they knew of me as a dancer or they knew me from the clubs,

they knew I had been around and been in the, the trenches and that they could trust me with their story. And then I actually knew the story. You know what I mean? Because I was there. I was part of it. So it was easy for them to like come on the show and us just have real conversations. And, you know, if you see my first episode to my like 20th, yeah, I grew a whole lot because

I had real, you know, producers who would teach me how to talk and to listen and this and to that and stuff. So it made a difference. And I felt really comfortable. I think when you're a performer and maybe it's a little different for you, Quest, like there's certain things you're comfortable with or not. Like I've always, as a gymnast, been comfortable on camera and performing and being a showperson.

And I'm always been a talker. And I'm always inquisitive. Like, I'm nosy and I can ask you like 800 questions. And without a cue card, and just because I want to hear your story and I have human interests, love, like, I just really want to know how you got from A to Z. And I'm curious about it. So I think you kind of get that and appreciate telling their story in that way. A win is a win.

Win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the book. biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by it. a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.

It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

and he's like just give it a shot he goes but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore it's okay to quit if you saw it written down it would not be an inspiration it would not be on a calendar of you know

the cat just hang in there yeah it would not be right it wouldn't be that there's a lot of luck listen to thanks dad on the iHeart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast You know what, there's one question I did forget to ask you as far as choreography is concerned. How long are you allowed to sit with the song and how, what's the creative process for figuring out what the choreography is? Because I know you have your own language.

So do you talk to the artist first and they have complete trust with you? or is it like, is it a collaborative thing where you and this artist work things out? Or is it the director of the video that lets you know, this is outer space and we want this sort of thing? Like, what's the, can you walk us through what the creative process is to map out?

Yeah. Like real love. Sorry, I was just. Usually the artist's problem with the last person you end up having a conversation with, right? Because you end up talking to the money people first. You end up talking to the people who come and approach you with the concept about this is what we have the budget for This is what the look is this is what we want to do you have to help us tell this story

Then you kind of figure out okay what time period is this what's the look how many dancers What am I going to do with them then you listen to actual the music right and you have to decide whether I'm gonna do lyrical hip-hop meaning You know I see you you know where you're actually move both the words or you're just doing feeling and emotion and everybody's just grooving and then I'm Of course, you got to find out if your artist can dance or not. And that becomes a whole other thing, right? Because now if the artist is to let's beat. Who had to have a good cinematographer to make it look like? I already know L.O. can dance.

I'll put, I'll put him up last just a little bit. If you remember the group intro. Yes. Come inside. Yeah. Keep you satisfied. Yes. Kenny Green.

But it was Buddy, who's kind of had. left feet. But he got on. You just had to work with him a little bit more. But you end up up tail on making your, your choreography so that everybody can do it because your job is to make everybody look uniform. And if they can't get it, you're only as good as your weakest person. As your weakest thing, which is the true. And the one person your eye will go to is the one person who's out of sync. So that means if they can't get it, you have to change the choreography so that it works for them. And that's really what it is. And working with somebody like Mary, Mary will say that she can't dance,

but Mary's got a groove and a bump. A bop. Yeah. It's been the same bop. You understand that around a way girl language, right? Between that. Right. And then you've got puffing in your head going,

your money. I need this, I need whatever. I need that smexi, that smooth. I need blah, blah, blah. I need that Harlem. I need that whatever. But you already know what that is. So you, you know, you combine whatever you see Mary do

with the stuff that you already know what to do and then you listen to the song and how it knocks and you're just like, okay, what are we doing? Are we in heels or we in combat foods? What's this, you know what I mean? What are we wearing? Can we keep it sexy or are we all baggy? Okay, you know, you want us hard.

Like, I love when girls dance harder than the guys. I love that athleticism. And that's kind of how I model my dance and like, you know what I mean? But then if I need to take it off and soften it up, you expect that of women. So when you see the opposite, that's kind of what I think people get excited to see. And I think they do with a BED dancer straight ahead or when you saw it. you know, me and my girls when we dance with Keith Sweep,

you're like, oh my God, these girls are getting busy. It's not just the cute and the this and the that, because you're used to seeing that all the time. Like that Jay-Z, I'll-be-good video when the guys do their thing and then the girls come across the thing. Yeah, but that's the process.

And then you got to make the artist look good at the end of the day. So even if your choreography doesn't suit them, your job is to make them look like the start if they are supposed to be. And your choreography will have to suffer from it, and you just have to change it. Or you just have to be real creative

and find a way to hide them for an eight count, bring them back and make it look a lot. You know what I mean? All right. So what is, as there been a project where it was like, not janky, but very 11th hour,

either the manager doesn't like the dancing or something, and you've got to change and you got like two hours left to figure out something real quick. Yo, can you throw something together real quick? under pressure, have you ever had that situation? I'm sure that's happened where, like, a prop's not working

or, like, a dancer gets sick and can't make the show and whatever's made for, like, six people, now has to be made for five people because you're supposed to catch somebody. Like, you have to do those kind of changes. Or if a piece of equipment doesn't show up and didn't make it, like, when you're going from city to city on tour and the trampoline doesn't show up and there's this whole,

like, you have to make those adjustments on the spot. Yikes. But that's what dancers do. Like, it's like, fuck it, we're going to do this. Five, six, seven, eight. And nobody knows you've messed up in the audience. Maybe the band members might know, the other dancers might know, but we know how to play it off.

And that's the part you train for. So you're saying when all that fails, just two-step. Five, six, seven, eight, so you remember what the choreography is to get back in. Yep, that two-step. A lesson for life. Have you ever lost a gig? Have you ever gotten fired from a gig?

Yes. I got fired. Me and Josie got fired. We got hired to dance with C.C. Peniston. And Cici was being managed by, her name was Tice. Tees was the niece of one of the girls from, no, the aunt of one of the girls from 3LW. So she was managing. Oh, yeah, we heard about that.

Yeah. C.C. So we were doing a bunch of clubs. We did literally, I think, the first or second night of shows, we were doing club hits, like three or four shows a night. Like, you know, she had all the gay clubs poppets. So we were doing all the, like, 3 a.m. 40 and whatever. And

Steve Falderson said we're not going to have you girls back. You outshine the artist and that's not what I'm going to be. And we literally got fired. I'm like, but that's why you hired us because we were good.

Like, yeah, but no. Not that good. Josie and Les together, that's a lot. That's, yeah. Y'all, y'all superstars. Thank you. Yeah. I'm curious, when's the last time

you saw some choreography and you were like, now they translated that vision. Like, what was the most recent thing you saw and you were like? Listen, whenever I watch Missy or whenever I watch Beyonce stuff, like, and hi-hat is still, I think, Missy's choreographer,

and hi-hat is one of the few females who was in the circle back when I was in the circle. Like, he was battling and all that other stuff, and she really switched over to choreography probably not before any of us, probably right after I switched over to television, but she's always been in the club. for her choreography and her choice of the dancing

and the stuff that she does between the collaborative work with Missy is love. Missy, I've never danced for Missy. I would come out of retirement for Missy. I come out of retirement for her. Justin Timberlake I come out of retirement for. Yonse, of course, I lace up. Absolutely.

So yeah, they impress me. But their whole thing is a visual package that I'm just like, ooh, from the makeup to the clothing to like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how much longer I can. It's hard for me to go to a concert and not want to, like, jump on stage. So if I can create a project or become a part of an ensemble project where I can dance again, I'm all in.

Yeah, that Piazza thing don't seem too far off, though. That really, you say that out loud. That don't really sound too far. It's something like, you can get that. I just want to look crazy. I don't want to be 107 dancing behind a bunch of, you know, T-year-old. If they can't keep that with a girl, then. Nah, you're the timeless.

Tio. How did the, um, we, were you. didn't. I'll get the full story of the living single, how you got incorporated into the, um, just into the credits. Like, that was crazy. Well, when Otis Salid called me, so he's like, Les, I got this vision. I don't have the job. I just have an idea. So we're going to shoot it. I just need you to say yes and be on board with it. And then we'll figure it out if they take it. So Otis was like, I met him down in Brooklyn underneath the Brooklyn Bridge, spent all day doing backflips on cobblestone, everything, whatever he shot.

And literally that last move you see where I'm going like this and I fell back. I was exhausted. When I saw one of his edits, I think he only kept like a front flip maybe and it may not even be in the full version of the TV show. But he called me one day, he said, oh my God, they took it. They took it. We're going to be it. And we didn't think it was going to be as big as it was. We didn't think past the first airing.

We didn't think past multiple seasons. We didn't think. I didn't think any of that stuff. And sure enough to this day, that's probably one of the things I'm most recognized for, which is just crazy, even from like the new generation. Not to be in your pockets, but does a gig like that? So I'm trying to say it's, you don't have to give me a number. Because it's 11 single is still playing on TV One as we speak in other places.

Does that continue to pay for groceries every week? Does that continue to pay for your hair done twice a month? Like, where does, what is a, how does this? Wait, would you even get residuals for? Yeah, would you get residuals? You asked a million dollar question, right? Yeah. What happened with this deal is I did what I never thought I would do,

which is a buyout, right? Oh. Which is a one-time fat sheet. And that's it. But even if I were getting residuals right now, I get residuals from a lot of stuff. And they're like, the paper costs more than what the checks are. You get a $0.0.0.0. 17 cents.

you know, this show was almost 20 years old, so I wouldn't be making any real money off of it anyway. But it served as purpose then at the time. And still. Yeah. So it does. I think the legacy of it all and me working with Otis is a price you can't put anything on.

In fact that Otis Ali called me, there's no price for that. Yeah. You said Lindy Hop is your favorite dance style. How did you get into that? Well, I'm not all the way into it, but when you see the athleticism of women, in dresses, swinging, flipping, like it's me all day. Every nuance of that dance, from the backflips to the front flips to the energy,

because it goes 80 miles a minute, speaks to my personality. Like, if I had to describe me in a dance, that's who I am, is Lindy up. It's crazy that our grandmothers were like, that was their everyday dance. Like, my grandmother's knew how to do that. Right. Of all sizes, whatever, glass on the ground, no knee pads, yes. Backflips, whatever, we don't care.

Not trying to be cute. We don't care what I... And they still look cute. Like, we don't care about with our hair and whatever, but they still look cute before and after the whole, like... What a press out?

Yeah. What? It's a press out. Not even a perm, a press out. You all know what to press out is, right? Stephen... No, I mean, it's a hair do. It's what you need, Steve.

It's what you need, Steve. It's what he needs. In all seriousness, though, is the Lindy hop related to the Lindy? Yeah. The same thing? Yes.

Yeah. There's Lindy, Danada, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da it's all a variation in the same family. But Lindy hopp is like something you would see literally at the cotton club and all these just, you know. What was the woman that Brady Bunch did? The Charleston? Was that a dance? You're hilarious, Steve. Why do I only know that reference?

Where, of course, why don't I remember that episode? That's the hands on knees cross it over, right? And in the back and the front, the back and front, Carl's. Dun, dun, dun, dun, the Carolina. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Before she go, can you tell us about your dance documentary?

Because I used to want to be a dancer, but then I grew the breast. So I am so into it. And did you ever get your Debbie Allen moment? I'm stalking Debbie Allen now to try and get these interviews. This damn COVID has been a pain in the ass, man. It's a cop blocker. It's a production blocker. I don't know about being a cock blocker.

You had to have that pre-COVID so you can lock that in. But it's about, trust me, you know, I had the clean house before then, unfortunately, and that's a whole other thing. But I'm open to talk about that too. Yeah, you had the clean house? Like, you got rid of? I was in my 2017 years, and we broke up before the pandemic and stuff happened.

Oh, girl. Year 15, I found out he had been having an affair with one of Usher's dances for two years. We're trying to work stuff out. I found out there was another chick who had been around for eight years. And so in order for me not to get my Remy Ma on or end up in an orange jumpsuit, I had to put him a motherfucker out.

Oh, he was living, y'all were living together at the time. Or you had been living together. Seven years. Day one. Because day one. People are always like, how do you not know? I mean, granted, I'm a chick on tour and I've seen multiple affairs and stuff happened, right?

But this is somebody who really, other than being on tour, never went out. We had a studio in the back. or whatever. But the whole, all the relationships were the chick he met in Australia like this on Zoom or FaceTime or whatever in masturbation sessions. And you said. Oh, so not physical on.

Well, no, they were physical because Usher's dancer only lived a couple of blocks away. And so whenever I had to go out of town or whatever, they would hook up. Or the whole time that they were on the road and I couldn't get out to the cities, you know, they were hooking up. So, and when you with somebody who you can call at 4 o'clock in Morocco and be on the phone or FaceTime and see everybody in the room, you don't realize the other chick might be on the other side of the computer or he'll be like, go to your room, I'll call you and she's up.

Right, right, right. He's the same person saying, I love you, you mean my world to me. We're trying to have a family, all these things in your face, and then doing all this other stuff over here. Girl, why are we still doing, why are you in? Yeah, and begging to stay and all this.

But wait, seriously, though, Les, Liz, I wonder this about me and my music industry sisterin. why do we dip and dive in our in our pond? Like, why don't we're not bad? Yes, you're just children. You're just children. At the very least on a good day, your children. You know what I'm saying? No, we are. Okay. So I'm, and I'm curious for a grown-ass woman like Les.

I'm like, so it's time to get a contractor, accountant. Mind you, I say this to all my sisters. I'm in the social services myself. Oh, okay. I'm just saying. They did all kinds of guys. It doesn't matter. Man's going to cheat if he wants to cheat, right? That's true.

They have that fear of missing out, and it doesn't matter whether you're a rock star on tour and everything's easy for you or if you go into an office and the chick who sits in a cubicle next to you is throwing pussy at you. It doesn't matter. You know, John Sally said to me, the best pussy is new pussy, and that's why men cheat. And men get curious. Or the minute that, you know, they feel like you're not giving them the attention or they get more attention over there or they're having a midlife crisis

or their ego needs to be fed or whatever is. is, you know, they're going to, my men, and I'm not, I'm just, I'm listening to y'all talk. But not to say that women don't cheat either. I know some girls who are cheaters too, who are married and cheating on their husbands and whatever that is. And I'm just like, why? When you can have a conversation and you don't have to be married, you don't have to be in a

relationship, you can decide to be single for the rest of your life and have as many women as you want and even choose the one you want to have a kid with, you can choose the one you want to stay over four days a week. Like, you can have those conversations. live the life you want. You don't have to be like, this is us, this is me. Like year three, we had done our life insurance policy, our living trust, we had done our wills, our health property, all the stuff except for being officially married. We were trying to have a family together. Why are you still trying to have a family with me if you're unhappy? And then I find out about

the affair and you're begging not to end it. So obviously you're not that unhappy. You just wanted a little taste. You have a little taste. Then we don't need to be together. And you just found out at the end. Like this was recent, like before. Well, it became the end. Yeah, it became the end. Like I said, and I'm not one who's very forgiving. I'm usually very light up. And so when I found out, you were a year 15 and a half together,

and literally I'm not a snooper. I do none of that. He said something that made me just be like, wait, what? And I looked at one thing and then everything unraveled. God puts everything in your face. And I had names, addresses, emails, text messages, receipts, all of that stuff. So I talked to like 12 different people, couples who were married. 11 of the 12 were like, go to therapy, try and find forgiveness, see what that looks like for you.

Give it another shot. Four months in, I find out about the chick who've been around for eight years in Australia. No, I'm going. We're not talking one-night stance. We're talking relationships. We're talking emotional connections. We're talking emails. We're talking gifts.

We're talking you putting money, taking money out of our household into their household. we're talking you have an unprotected sex and now you put my help at risk and if I had made a phone call or if I was that chick on an episode of Snap I was just about to say we're talking where your girls at but we're talking.

We got to a point where once I put him out and California does not have oh my God what do you call it? Community property not that Common law

Common law doesn't exist It hasn't existed since like the 1800 I knew that and all the properties were mine. And so I realized I did have a case. You can't just treat somebody like that, put their health at risk, make promises to them so that now I'm holding myself out for you. And instead of I could have had a whole family with somebody else.

Girl, they don't know about our time. They don't know how precious our time is. I don't know why these motherfuckers keep playing with our time. Life is not even. I'm sorry. But to empower women, you have options. And the more I recognize that, that you can't do. that to other people. So him putting my health at risk and, you know, thank God I didn't

catch anything because you really wasn't talking to me in an orange jumpsuit. But the fact that happened or the fact that, you know, you wasted my time or made promises, it came with a price. And there's not any amount of money that's going to get my time back, my fertility back, none of that. But I guarantee you, every time that check, that check shows up, it shows how expensive that extracurricular pussy was for him. Oh, so y'all, did, so you had to sue him or like, he has to pay you? How did it, how Absolutely. I can only say the word settlement, but absolutely. Once I went my tears, I had to remind you, I had to remind myself that my cake was in the back closet. Like, I'm a New York chick. Wait a minute. What? Just happened? Make enough. My time is money. My time is money. So to all you out there, you better teach your daughters. They don't have to stand for no bullshit. Teach your sons that they don't have to be in a relationship that doesn't have an explanation of terms about what it is you want.

Because if you're somebody's one of the other people, you don't have to be married. We don't have to live together. I can agree or you can be with somebody else. And all you have to do is say three words. I'm not happy. This ain't working. I want out.

Three words. Right? And not all these years of all this extracurricular stuff that was devastating. It was absolutely devastating to me. I've never been so broken in my life, you know, to the point where you have to like go to therapy to talk to someone because you're tired of talking to your friends.

And every time you come around and you're like, oh, here she's coming again. Mm-hmm. right? Acting all that you don't even recognize who you are because this person that you trust, right? If it's somebody you don't know, you're not that devastated by the disappointment

or the broken heartiness. It's the people that are closest to you that you trust with your life that devastate you and betray you. That's a long time. Absolutely. Absolutely. I would have given this due to kidney.

And our families were so close to the point when my mom would fly to Texas and stay with his mom or, you know, they fly to New York or whatever. So you're breaking up. I was the sister's, the godmother of his niece, you know, I can't talk to them anymore. You know, all this stuff. Yeah.

The godmother's his sister's son, all of that. So, because you wanted some extra pussy. Hey, y'all. When you talk about the settlement, I know you can't say, we talk about the settlement, what was it on the grounds of? The grounds of, um, the suit on the grounds of, I should say. Yeah, the fact that, uh, he put my health at risk. I'm speaking out of not legal terms, but there's the term, but putting my health at risk

for making promises for, I was able to prove that he had promised to take care of me. We're in this relationship, blah, blah, blah, financial contributions and all that other stuff. Yeah, there were a lot of grounds that he had to be held accountable for. That is, I couldn't mention the affairs. So it wasn't even about the affairs. The only thing in which the affair may be played a part in was because my health was a thing that he had intentional intention to harm, I think it's what it's called, or something like that. But the affairs had no play in it.

And it had to be that because we were living as husband and wife for 17 years, that there's a price on it. Now, have we been married in California for like 10 years, then he automatically would have had to pay five years. If we were married, say, nine years and 11 months, then the price is negotiable. I fall under, even with the promises that I was able to prove, you know, him taking care of me and the life that we're going to lead and that we were starting to have a family and doing all this other stuff, I fall under the negotiation, whatever. And so he opted for mediation and that's what it happened. But there's-

I think you should be a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah, you're saying shit. This is good advice. It's a class at the least. It's a class. I'm very, I literally started to Google stuff. And I knew because, like, I've always done my paper.

My mother always said, if you have kids or if you own property, make sure your trust and your will are done so that you never have to deal with it again. And even when I bought my first property in 1991 or whatever it was, I made sure that it was taken care of inner trust. So then I bought a house. He moved into both properties with me. I was smart enough, even though I included him as beneficiary on certain things, to sign something that said even with the equity that he couldn't gain anything because he tried to

come after my property, but being a smart, street smart, book smart, chick, he couldn't get it. So, but yeah, I literally just was Googling some stuff. And then when I realized that there was no common law in California, but I actually had other rights in that there's something that's called the Lee Marvin claim or a case that was called Marvin versus Marvin, where you live with someone, now they have like cohabitation laws, but where you live with someone under the guise of being a family and being supported in that way, and you can prove it, whether I didn't have to quit a job, to say I'm helping him with his business, but clearly I did along the way. There's a price that needs to be paid for that.

So women have rights, and I just say to see you guys. Again, like I said, you don't have to enter the women out there who are cheating. You can have a relationship where you can have 20 partners and nobody has to get hurt and everybody's agreeable. You know, you want to be married and cheat and just be like, I'm not happy. This is what it is and get out. But you don't have to cause all that damage and all that wreckage and all that be trust or put somebody's health at risk for all.

of that. And all the women who don't know what to do, get yourself a lawyer and do what you need to do. I'm glad you learned this lesson before March. Right. Yeah. I couldn't imagine being quarantined somebody like that. The most pregnancy and the most breakups I've ever seen in my, like, you know, shit, I'm lucky with Gracie because everyone else is falling by the waist. Less. I'm, you know, they said that the divorce rates have like tripled during this porn, right? Because you're either with some, either you're romanticizing the fact that you're in this COVID or you're with somebody that you didn't really want to be with anyway and you guys were on the verge and people now are just like, fuck it,

they're filing between the kids and the this and the that or whatever, you know? So I'm like, even in my book and all that other stuff I'm working on, I'll be very open about the details, about how I found out what happened. I mean, it's crazy because every people who know don't want to say anything. And then once they find out that you know, people start talking. So even people who are his friends start, whatever. But I don't know how I became like super sleuth and things just start falling in your lap or you start paying attention. Because when you with somebody you trust, you don't feel like you have to look at anything else. So you're just kind of as business as usual. And then when you start remembering when such and such happened or

the day that he said he was going to the studio and I'm like, why you got on so much cologne? Oh, the bottle's filled. Wait. What? Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Not the bottle. The bottle spill. The bottle's filled.

That's a big story that night that I didn't think twice about it. You know what I mean? So yeah. But the documentary, as you ask me about, is about the women

of 90s hip-hop dancing. Because we always hear about the rock steady crew. Like I even had a conversation with Rocky Buchanan of the hip-hop museum. And all they always talk about it, just the guys

or the rock steady crew who I love, crazy legs and this wheel was like, those are my guys. But I'm like, you're forgetting about whole golden era. You forget about what these women have contributed to these visuals that are art. Like, give us our love. So I wanted y'all to slow down that Don't Rush video. I was like, wait,

that's who? That's my girlfriend, the DeAngelo video. That's, oh, wait. Yeah. So that was a nice team. I'm in a place now. I can't talk to John Singleton. I can't talk to Heavy D. I can't talk to Michael. I can't talk to Whitney. I can't talk to Andre Harrell. Shit. I can get these stories told. These are some of the most iconic pieces of work. And all of us have been, you know, blessed to talk about. Anandre and I had literally had scheduled, you know, getting on camera and stuff. And, you know, this happened, you know.

I just, thank God, interview with Teddy Riley and stuff. I got to get my mom on camera. You know what I mean? Like, these stories have to be told. And I'm sure the same for you, plus, like all these people you've worked for and everyone else, you've crossed half of all these people. And you're part of your history and your legacy.

And you want to get the best version of, you know, the things that you imagine or didn't even imagine for yourself as an eight-year-old kid and here you are at the highest level or at these experiences whether they come back around and not and you want to be able to let hear what these people thought about you or why they hired you or what it is you brought to the table and you can't and how you created this cultural ship imagine I don't think any of us went into it with an intention other than to do what we love you know and I'm glad it's resonated so Wow. Well, thank you for sharing your story with us, Les.

Yeah, thank you for real. And thank you. You were as a latchkey, you talking about being a latchkey kid in New York. I was a latchkey kid in North Carolina in Greensboro. And I used to come home every day and I would watch Rap City. And you were my babysitter for like two years. So much love and appreciation for all you've done. Seriously. We thank you for being our babysitter. Big Les, everybody. And thank you for redefining a woman. Thank you for redefining an image of a woman on TV. Like, that's amazing.

For real, for real. Yes, yes. Yeah, like, even when they was like that name Big Les, I mean, because in the South, I'm like, she ain't big. I can show you big. I can show you big. You want to see Big. She ain't big.

It's crazy because it went from being. Like, I see people who are like, you're not that big. You're not. Yeah, you're not. Or people are like, she must be a lesbian because of Lesbian because of Les. I'm like, I've heard that since. Oh, shit. Nothing else.

Tim, Timothy, Dave, David, Les Les Leslin. That's it. It's just that simple. Otherwise, I'd have a book deal on a TV show like Ellen if I would. Please. Sorry. Put it out there. You'll have it.

Les, you are loved. You are loved. Just know that. You really are loved. You are love for real. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Fon Ticcolo and Unpaid Bill and Sugar Steve and Lai-Ea, thank you, Big Les. Of course, love, Force, Supreme. We will see you on the next girl round.

Love you guys. Love, guys. Plus Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford.

This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast. to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12

and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover their friends, all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human