The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Bilal

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Bilal sits down with Questlove Supreme and shares his story. The Philadelphia native's complex upbringing and schooling explains why he is a true original, from Jazz scatting to his raw Soul vocals. The guest who recent released Adjust Brightness recalls working with Dr. Dre, Beyoncé, and Kendrick Lamar, while discussing his unreleased sophomore album, his second life as an independent artist, and refusal to be contained or predictable. This a long-awaited conversation that happened at just the right time.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clivert Show on the IHeard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick & Poll show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games Win Stupid Prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was.

I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of IHeart Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. Coming up this seasonal Math and Magic, CEO of Liquid Death Mike Cicario. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower.

Or it's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take to Interactive CEO, Strauss Selney, and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Listen to Math and Magic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Saturday, May 2nd, country's biggest stars will be in Austin, Texas. At our 2026, IHeard Country Festival presented by Capital One. Tickets are on sale now. Get yours before they sell out at Ticketmaster.com.

That's Ticketmaster.com. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove. With me today is the team Supreme Family, featuring our newly minted God of Ball Parade, Sugar Steve. I'm the king of the New York. How was this Steve?

And, you know, it was really a joke. Like, I mean, it was supposed to be a joke. Me just campaigned to try to get on the float. And then you got me on the float. And then it was a matter of like sort of figuring out what the hell was going on that day. It was pouring rain. And it just ended up, long story short, it just ended up being so much more enjoyable and so much more heartwarming than I thought my heart could get.

You know, like I'm so jaded at this point. and, you know, being from New York, you never think you can see a... You're supposed to be jaded? Right. You know, just... Yeah, and there I was, and it was just waving at kids and just taking it all in, seeing the city from that perspective, it was just, it was kind of magic. Yeah, I have to say that if you're a generation person raised on, like,

Ferris Bueller's day off, I highly recommend getting in a parade by hook or crook. Yeah, so now... I'm just looking around for people with parades, you know, so if you know anybody. You're available for parades. Good. Birthday boy, Bill. How's it, sir? How are you?

Great. I'm so jaded. I don't even go to the parade anymore. How about that? That's like next level jaded in this. Fuck that. Anyway. You once got me on a parade float.

Honestly, my favorite part about the parade every year is seeing you guys. Because you always are the float that's right next to the Sesame Street float. And so there's always like, there's always something happening. But then one year you were on ours, which was like a weird kismidi. meeting of all the worlds, which is super cool. My favorite part of being on your float was that was Carol Spinney's last time being on a float Carol Spinney who played Big Bird.

Spitting at the time was like at least 80, 88, right? Still playing Big Bird. And they were concerned that him being inside that hot ass costume would be too much for him to handle at 88 years old. And so he was like, nah, I'll do it, I'll do it. And then maybe like two hours in, he was sort of like, okay, I need some air. And I know that one of the main things that you guys are vigilant about is not letting kids see a lifeless Muppet because the second that the character is out of them, it just looks dead.

And so the way that they had to cover this entire bird, this eight-foot bird, so that he could unzip himself and get some breath. was hilarious because they didn't do it all the way. So there was like people on his, on the west side of the float that could clearly see a slumped over dead big bird. Yep. And there was like one or two kids like, but that was the most hilarious thing ever.

Dream crush. How was your vacation? Your, your Thanksgiving. Oh, it was good. Yo, I just got to say, I'm so proud of y'all. Y'all talk about people being on floats. Like, this is a regular person thing. Like, what you got to be on your phone?

my float, I'm being on your float. Like, it's a moment to chill. But, like, and to really celebrate all y'all, that's really dope. But Thanksgiving was great. It was great. Now I'm in Cartagena, Columbia, doing birthday and Sunday. You're in Columbia

right now? Jesus Christ, I was like, man, I'm not even going to talk about her house because I was like, that's a room I never seen before. Yeah, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all got to get into this. I'm like, Columbia is a beautiful place, so. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to say our guest needs no introduction.

Yes, you don't. But I also, right, I also realize that whenever you have such a unique talent, oftentimes, that particular being might be the favorite of your favorite singer. This might be one of the rare situations in which our guest today might be the favorite singer of your favorite singer's favorite singer. Like, your favorite singer's mama

likes this guy too. Yes. And your favorite singer. You know, I'm working on less hyperbole, but having been witness to our guest today some 25, 26 years ago

and my living room. Like, I never had someone literally like you remember the moment and back to the future when Marty McFly starts doing a modern guitar solo in 1950s and the entire band

stops playing Johnny Be Good and they're like What the fuck is? I've never had a musician literally stopped me in my tracks. I remember we were playing in my living room and I think Anthony Tidd was next to me and I was just like

yo, who the only time I ever said like, yo, who the fuck is that? It's usually like some girl that blows my mind. I've never had an artist just make me like, what the hell is this? And more than that, how can I be down? And I'd stay consistent in saying that

I absolutely squander no time to collaborate or work with this artist simply because it gives me the best seat in the house sometimes just to really display a level performance that you rarely, rarely, truly get to see where we are in this sort of well-rehearsed, well-cureated, Instagram filtered, perfected kind of creative cycle that we're in in which you're not allowed to see

any of the flaws or the bend it notes or whatever. And we're here to celebrate, of course, course, his latest album of Just Brightness, really his entire history. Ladies and gentlemen, one of my favorite, it's almost a disservice to call him a performance artist, because I can't say a singer, I can't say an artist, I can't even say people or beings, like, exotic dancer. May we all truly channel in our creative energy. I have not even channeled in half the created energy

that our guest today has displayed. Please welcome below to Questlove Supreme. Thank you very much. Thank you. Can we say our favorite thing? Because he's our favorite. Yes, I felt bad making this a personal introduction. Like, it was just about me.

Yes. But this is far beyond giving you your flowers. My voice has been shot for the last like nine days. I assume that, yes, when you sing it's zero to 1,000 on the Autobahn, as far as dynamics and wherever you think your voice should go in that particular moment, do you have a ritual to take care of your voice? Like, how do you prevent what you're hearing right now, me talking like? I don't usually get hoarse like that, but I've got different concoctions that I make to stop it, like different teas, Like when I'm on a road, I got a T that I make every time. Because it's like I can be good all the way up until like maybe if I'm on the road for like the ball.

The last week I start. It's not that I'm getting forced, but I get like that I can't sing soft no more. And I like to sing soft. So it's like I can't do nothing soft. I'm just straight power. But I boil ginger. lemon and cayenne pepper

got it got it yeah and the honey yeah for sure when I'm mad horse I put garlic in there and it works sometimes it works every time

like brand new voice damn that's like if I'm hoarse and I don't have no voice but if I'm like good I still got my voice just the cayenne Pepper, ginger, lemon thing. Got it.

And it'll just make it perfect. But if I sound like you, I'll put like a not big-ass piece of garlic in there, but a little bit of garlic in there. Everyone tells me garlic or oregano, but I'm so anti-bad breath that I'd rather suffer. No. No, but it's like a tea, so it's not like you eating it. So it's like you had something, some soup or something. It's always the next day, man. I wake up with the dragon.

So I'll never eat garlic in my life. I'm dead serious, though. Like, the next day, the dragon just, ah. I completely understand. I completely understand. I mean, I grew up with the name Bilau when they had the movie, a house party. And Martin was.

Stank Brett Balao. So, like, my whole fifth grade to eighth grade, I was spent breathful out, and I was the singer. So, like, every time I sang, the whole auditorium was like, oh, I could smell it. It was just a movie. It, like, ruined my life until high school. All right. So for the benefit of audience members that don't know anything about your history, I'm going to ask you some basic questions, could you please tell us? The glorious city, which you first came to this earth.

Philadelphia, of course. Philadelphia, German Taylor. I can't do the siren noise. German town! Meb, bram! Thank you. What was your first musical memory? First musical memory is probably in my pop's house acting out thrilling.

But shortly after that, Like, that's just me acting out music by myself. Because Stirli used to always kind of scare me a little bit. But the video? Hell, yeah. The video scared the shit, but also the album itself, all of that kind of shit. Used to scare me, my pops used to play it to kind of spook me out.

I was wondering what effect did that song have on kids like at a young age when my dad used to always play Curtis Mayfields if there's hell below we're all going to go oh yeah which is essentially just a bunch of psychedelic echoes and yelling like ah we're in hell but to this day it scares me you know what I mean like I always wondered if thriller truly scared people to that level where they just don't want to because also Michael Jackson makes it appear like fun like Hey, zombies are fun. But, you know.

No. That's scared. That song scared me before the video came out. I was, that whole talking part in the intro. Oh, Vincent Price. My pop used to scare me. It scared me and my brother scared hell out of it. That's like my first musical, like, early music member.

But then I've been singing shortly after that, like, on a church choir. I've been singing on church choir since a really long, like little kid, like maybe four years old. So when did they hear it in you? When did everybody else go? Wait, man, what's that? Your family? I think I've got like the lead vocal, like the day I joined the choir. I went to a church where everybody in my family had to be on choir.

Like the whole church was my family anyway. Like, what church is this? It was a second Baptist church. Franklin this. And it was just a little church in, I would say on the other side of Broad Street,

ordinary, as you go keep going down. But literally, everybody in the church is my family. My grandma had 13 kids. So I got a big-ass family. And everybody in the church around that time,

like the 80s, you know, everybody went to church around them. Had to go to church. Yeah, like everybody had to go to church or pass through there. Like, only person that didn't go to the church was my uncle. And he was... Always one to uncle with that. He was like the Black Panther. He was Nation of Islam.

I mean, really, nobody messed with him on that. But, yeah, I was on the Sunbeams choir since four years old. So if everybody could sing, then the family wasn't easily impressed by your voice. there and everybody was like, yeah, this is what we did. No, everybody couldn't say. Oh, okay. It was just on the choir. You had to be on the choir, even if you suck.

Just so that adults would know where you were 24-7 or? Mm-hmm. Okay, so you mentioned Thriller, which incidentally, by the way, as of this recording, today is the 41st anniversary of Thriller debuting on MTV. And also today's the 42nd anniversary of Thriller the album. Well, technically, some. Some say November 30th, some say December 1st, but yeah, we're... Thrillers almost 50.

A full-grown adult with some kids. Wow. But the thing that you mentioned, now my church experience, especially in 1983, that was the period where kind of two years after Ronald Reagan's kind of very conservative America agenda, was really settling in, you know, a lot of the hedonistic 70s adults were, air quote, atoning for their sins by becoming border against Christians. So I once went to a church in which, like, he had copies of Thriller in 1999 and saying, this demonic music you're letting your kids listen to and da-da-da-da-da. So you grew up in a church-heavy household in which secular music.

music was allowed? Well, my pops was Muslim. So when I went to visit my pops, I was just listening to the music. But my mom, my mom, she listened to everything, even though we was going to church.

I wouldn't say my mom was like, even to this day, even though she's like Christian, she was never like super heavy in the church like that. She got into the church heavy, because, you know, I started to sing on everybody. At a certain point, I was just in the church thing in Philly.

So my mom was like, she became Joe Jackson after that. So you have one sibling? I got two siblings. You're from Philadelphia, so I know some are on the books and off the books. Yeah, like from my mother, there's my older brother and my younger sister. but my pops I've got a few brothers and sisters All right

But in general And I guess you can even count your cousins Whatever I had cousins that were just as close to me as siblings Was it pretty Clear cut that You had a gift that was beyond What the other kids of your ilk or age had Mm-hmm. Yeah, from early on, like, as soon as I started to get in and on the choir, by the time I was 10, I was directing the choir.

Yikes. I was like, me. Like, how did you discover you had this voice, were you just always crying with someone notating a note to you? Like, I don't know. I don't know. I just. It became a parent in church that I could, like, I guess I could really sing or, like, do leaves and stuff when I was good. But before then, I don't know. I was just always the weird one. My little sister is a musician, and my brother, he's, he does, he's just, I would say gifted.

But I don't know. I was always called, like, the weird cousin. I guess. He's out. I always had that. So that's the thing, often, especially in the 70s and 80s, at least my observation and my personal experience, usually, you know, if you display a gift, you're automatically ostracized. And depending on your kind of your capacity to, with, you know, with. stand attention. It's sort of up in the air of how it develops.

Like for me, I would pretty much say, like, up until the age of seven, I was a well-rounded artistic person. Like, first of all, like, before they taught me to play drums, I had to learn to tap dance. And, like, all this other stuff.

But when it came to singing, yeah, I can tap my ass off. Like, I was like... Wow, they're killing. We and Bill, we're shaking our hands because us, too. Yeah. Killing it. Tap dancing.

Really? Yeah. Okay. Right. But the thing was is that I could sing, but then just because I got relentlessly ostracized for artistic ability, I tried to squash it. Or as we say today, like, you dim your light. So the one thing that I sacrificed on the altar was my singing voice. which I believe that I could have been,

probably singing would have been my North Star, but I was like, okay, I got drums well, but I think by eight I psychologically killed my voice. I might as well hold the tune, but being the odd-ball cousin of the Black Sheep, how did you handle it? Or were you just like break out in song and I don't give a fuck? I can sing.

It was my cousin. cousins everybody kind of did did like my brothers the thing was to be able to dance real good and I couldn't dance I sucked I could never like really dance well so my brothers were the superstars because they can fucking dance all the dances the running man the wop like they would go to the parties and kill it and I would always like clam up so it's like the only time people even knew I could do anything was when we was in church. Like that's where now was Sean. But when we would go out and we was just kids, like, it never really stood out.

I could never really get it out. Or if somebody would be like, hey, sing for me. I couldn't, like, do it, like, if it's just us, like, as kids, you know? Even when, like, a song would come on, I had aunts that would just be like, go ahead, boys, sing, my dance, you know what I mean? Do it, do it. And I would even clam up in front of them, you know. But my brothers would push me aside and do all the moves.

They can sing, do all the Michael Jackson shit. I was always shy. I don't know. It could only come out when it was like a real audience. And then I was just like, I felt like I was pretending or like escaping, even though I was doing it. What was your go-to song that you would sing if adults made you, hey, sing something? and blout, like... It would be like some Michael Jackson shit, you know.

From four to seven or eight, who were your North Stars? Four to seven? I think I'm by then. I was just listening to pop music shit. Like, I was just watching MTV and whatever was on TV. I didn't really have, like, a... I would say Michael Jackson and Prince, you know. Okay.

Or like whatever. I wouldn't say I was like so into music until like it really didn't hit me until I would say like around seven. But by then I was like deep in the church like singing on quiet. Like by the time I've got to 10 years old, I think that's fifth grade, right? Yeah. Yeah, by the time I went to fifth grade, I had started to go to. Catholic school. And so I was just, that was it.

I went to St. Malachis, right over there by Bright Hope Baptist Church, and I had this lady come into my like, Mother Brown. And Mother Brown, she was the one that was like, this motherfucker can say it. Like, you know. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen. the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even. in music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network

on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school. Soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all

the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making me. money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything, but at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids.

They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always, act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Kugler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director.

Who do you think he is? I don't know. You meet the like the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president? Those law crusette. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time.

I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old. Old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one. I like that snake. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah.

It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman.

chairman and CEO of IHard Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This season on Math and Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate Mike Milken, take two interactive CEO Strauss-Zalnik. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business.

Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top. Listen to math and magic, stories from the frontiers and marketing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you could try. podcast. Do you remember would you preach some? Oh my God. Come on please. Obey your parents. No, I don't know. I was just trying to work it all up to the part where you get to do the bluesy part. And the Oregon got to join in. If social media was out, then you would have been like one of these kids that I would have been like in there. Hell yeah.

Is there any documentation of you pretend, like on tape or? Yo, yeah, I was just at a concert the other day. I played at the Kimball Center with Oren Evans, a big band, and a lady came backstage. I was like, yo, I've got a videotape of you. I think you're like nine years older, a younger singing that's so church. you was like, sell just like you do now. I was like, I need to fucking get that tape. She's like, it's so hilarious.

Yeah. So the way that I think I first heard of you, there was a girl that I was seeing and she might have graduated Kappa before your time and maybe her younger sister went there, whatever the case was. this is about the point when I had your demo and I was playing it in her car and never one to like, people love their opportunity to dunk on me.

Like if I don't know something about music and her dunk was like, I don't have it to let her blow out. And the next week she brought in a cassette of you singing back when you were like 10 years old or whatever. And the thing was that there wasn't a difference in, I was like, there's no way you're telling me this person's 10 and 11 years old. Like he sounds like a fully formed range. Like I hear three to four octaves already. And she was like, yes, he goes in my church. I wish I remembered her name. But good for you.

Like, oh, poor girl. I wish I remembered her name. Don't say it again. Don't say it again. Yeah. For you, was there any other option? Did you have any other desire to do something in life besides singing? Yeah, I wanted to be an architect.

I like to draw cars with those in the Indian. So I wanted to be some type of like building. But it was always on a creative side. But yeah, I wanted to make cars. So, Below, what was the first creative, project that you worked on outside of the church? Like, as far as

like the recording or just... Well, yeah, I mean, as far as recording's concern or like, just outside of church. I broke out of church. Like, I started breaking out of church in high school. Not to mention my pop

always fucking hated the fact. I was about to say, when did your daddy be like, this is enough? My dad always hated the fact. that I was going to church. And my dad's best friend is Mr. Ben Bynum from down the whole Zanzibar shit. I grew up in there.

And do you grow by Wilhelmina's? Yeah, when Willamitas used to be Zanzibar Blue, I grew up in that one when it was like two different floors and shit. But my dad used to take me there to just kind of. get me out of the whole going to church shit because he just always felt like that was just not the thing like

right you know so he wanted me to see jazz he was like this is music that shit's just hollering holler and holler but then he would wind up saying calling some of the cats at Zanzibar

and they hollered he gave a holler to this day my pops has never been in Not one of my concerts. Like, I don't think he ever, never. Like, my dad never really supported. Wait, does your dad not know what you do?

He knows what I do, but he ain't never heard the shit. I never seen him at a concert ever. Are you fine with that? My pops is a eccentric guy like me, so whatever he does, I'm just like, I'm just like, I don't know. I remember one time my pop was so pissed at me singing in church. He had literally came in the church. and like I was singing

and took the mic and picked me up and my mom was like no Melvin no and my pop was like my son ain't gonna be gay my son ain't go be gay

it wasn't the other serious I'm like it was embarrassing man I think the keyboard player from Philly Mici was the plan

it was like one of those workshop type things where you got a paid the be in it and my mom. So high school my pop was very happy that I had met these cats and so I went

to Philadelphia high school because all of my friends went to the club club Jill Jill Jill's Shaw George Burton

the the Lowry brothers they all told me if I wanted to hang with them I need to learn jazz theory and I need to learn chords and play piano because they didn't want to hear me sing. I went to the club club to learn piano and chords and shit. And at the time was, the instructor was a... Lovett Hines. Yeah, yeah, Lovett Hines. Okay. He was my instructor too. It's where you said that because we as a people have a hard time expressing emotions that there's some.

such a vulnerability in singing that there's a certain level of generational people that feel like singing is such a soft. But yet we love Eddie Kendricks. We love Smokey Robinson. We love Prince. Maybe I kind of sense that too. Because I definitely know that there's a period between, like 74 and 84

where like if you sang then you were just ridiculed like you know like you couldn't have a beautiful voice and survive in the hood like oh you soft because you sing beautiful which is crazy because that wasn't how it was

in our parents' time and our parents' time they were singing duos on the on the corner so something happened at disconnect that's It's weird. The hardest singers was Jodicy. In school, were you trying to start

like groups with people or were you just like... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went through phases. Like, my freshman year, I was in a singing group. It was a gospel group with the singers. I was like hard-for in the vocal department. This is the same shit you were saying. I kept breaking out singing in up, you know, in the hallway and shit.

And I was in a gospel group, and I switched sophomore year, and I started trying to be in a jazz group. So I started going to jam session. I got my first gig as a vocalist, an Orrin Evans band. Okay. The Blue Moon.

There was this club called The Blue Moon in Philly. and he used to do gigs. He had just graduated but he would hire you know he was still hired cats that was still in high school so I played in his

and like I did like one or two gigs then and I certainly after that started trying to like make my own band but it was like a jazz trio like I from that I got that jazz bug.

Like, I didn't even want to sing no other style of music until, like, I got signed. Like, I was hard for it wanted to be the next Bobby McFerrinner or some shit. You got sign not singing no R&B pop. No. When I first met in a teammate, I was in a singing group because I was in a single group in high school. My cousin dated Dhamu. M2 M2's son. And she would always talk about me to him.

And at the time, they was doing that show. New York Undercover? New York Undercover. And Natalie's. Yeah, they would do the music stuff. So it got out that tunes was looking for a group. So I put a group together just to go up there. And Tunes didn't like the cats, but he liked my voice.

So that was like the second time I put a group together. And I think I put another group together to try and win a competition. But it was like a jazz band. I got to get to the moment where I discover you and I forget. Amir, you say human saxophone. That was a part of the story. I remember you told me that that wasn't this a part of the story, too? The human saxophone thing?

No, like, I believe James, he handed me a cassette. And for him, besides the fact that he knew Bilau's voice was going to blow my mind, there was one thing that was slightly more mind-blowing about this cassette I was listening to. And Bilal's voice was the second. thing that was mind-blowing. The first thing he said to me was like, dude, the motherfucker from the spin doctors co-produced this. And he put it on.

And I was like, wait a minute. You try to tell me the band that does, just go ahead now. That's been doctors. And he's like, yeah, that's been doctors. it was almost like it was a party trick. I was like, yo, listen to this demo. Guess who produced this? And they just run out of shit.

And, you know, they would figure like, oh, some DeAngelo's working on. And this is this new group and did it. And I was like, yo, let's spend doctors produce this. And then it was like, well, who's that singer? So next to some village's fantastic demo, Balow was in second place for like the demo. I would just make people listen to 24-7 and then, like, guess who produced this?

And then it went to like, hey, make me a copy, make a copy, make me a copy. So can you tell the story of how that demo came to be and how that just started making the rounds? I met Aaron at the new school. Okay. He played Aaron Corness, right? Aaron Colemanus. Yeah, yeah. He was going to the new school because he had came back to like get, he wanted to get his jazz chops better.

He wanted to get this, he always wanted to go back to school to get, you know, hire, learn or whatever. We, he got hired by the guy that started our school. His name is slipping my mind. I don't know why. But he started the new school. He passed away recently. But he would get students to play a gig. It's probably not here no more called the other sidewall cafe or some shit like that.

Okay. So our gig started at 2 o'clock in the morning, and we would play from 2 to 5. This was back when club, jazz club stayed open, like, forever. Real New York. And the only cats I would see at these shit was, like, ironically enough, was like, Roy Hartgrove never would go to every gym, I should always play. But he hired me,

Rob and Aaron Tolmins, and I forget who was playing bass. But we could never stay up to get to the gig. So we would either go to a bunch of other clubs until it was time for us to play, or we would... And this is coming from Philadelphia or like you're a student

No, no, no, no. Student at the new school. So I lived in Brooklyn and everybody else stayed at the dorm. So I didn't like to go all the way to Brooklyn. So I would just, I wound up staying at the dorm at Robb dorm. Because I think the dude that he shared the room with was on some type of MTV show, MT Road Rules or some shit like that. He had got accepted to do that.

So he was never as a superstar. We would just hang at RobSpot, and we found out that Aaron had a full-blown studio at his house in the basement. And we started hanging out there until it was time to go do that gig. And when I found out that he had that shit in there, I used to go to the practice rooms at school and just write little ideas to try and record at his studio. and that's where that demo came from. As far as I know, I believe that when will you call and Queen of Sanity

are those actual demos? I know that James and I replayed the drums and the keyboards for Queen of Sanity, but that vocal take is from that actual demo, correct? Mm-hmm, yep. So here's the thing. Like, instantly, when I hear that first verse, like you kind of displayed a nuanced range of singing

that especially during that time period a lot of R&B singing was sort of post-Stevye Wonder like Stevie Wonder begets Charlie Wilson who begets Aaron Hall who begets R. Kelly who begets Casey and Jojo like this level of who, oh, type of host TV I call

like R&BC I know exactly what you thought about of which you really didn't approach that and not since Prince have I heard a primitive screamer on a record

like do it in a way that wasn't like HR from bad brains or like punk rock related so is anyone M2MA or whoever is in authority. Is anyone like telling you like, hey, he told it down a little bit.

Like, why don't you just sing nuanced and discipline and leave all that crazy stuff because that's not going to get you a hit? Like, what are people telling you during this phase before you figure out who you really are before your first album comes out? I was always told to dumb it down, even as a little kid. So I just was just like,

I never really knew how to do that. dumb shit down but I think around this phase it was just they were trying a lot of things it was mostly getting me to learn songwriting with other people and then it was me trying to always fit what I was learning at school into a modern thing you know because I always wanted to this sign a blue note or something for saying it became a discussion dude it's mad old people in the audience like we ain't go never get chicks

being jams like this sucks like you know and literally we used to go to y'all's jam session that y'all used to do with at the wetlands and come back and we see cats like green riggins there we like see now that's the jazz we did fucking see

we always considered what y'all was doing as jazz so we'd be like that's the shit like we need to do some shit more in that kind of fucking bane but and add our core changes the shit because we just gonna be dating old chicks for the rest of our lives like we gotta be modern like we got to go to her jencock route like you know what I mean so right okay that kind of like shifted everything to where I was like, we got Aaron's studio less experiment. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your, favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green.

You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game. and I fell in love.

On our new podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why,

of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha. Landrum Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first, it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food.

They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of IHeart Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This seasonal math and magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death Mike Cessario, financier and public health advocate Mike Milken, take-to-interactive CEO, Strauss-Zalnik.

If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and her own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top. Listen to math and magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Cougler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director.

Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean, like, the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president? Those law a rouset. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time.

I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. It was a good one. I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying. It is a lot. It is an actual poll. Yeah, better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes.

Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's the path that leads to your actual record deal? Like, how many labels did you see? How many showcases did you have to do?

How many close with no cigars? I wanted to get signed to Peter R. Massenberg because I always felt like I didn't think he was going me on soul but I was like that feels like the type of shit that we want to do

and I always felt like that would be a way to kind of infuse other our jazz shit you know modernize it a little bit but still keep it at heart yeah

Right, right, right. We could fit it in. And then we would start to notice like samples and go like, yo, that's the actual, they sample the actual album that we love. Like that's the actual jazz. I know that's all, you know. So I always saw what y'all is doing ever, like the gateway into like still being a jazz musician in the vein of that. But being more modern and kind of really like growing.

And then once I met y'all, I was like, I can confuse things more and kind of take it to a different level to where I don't even think of myself as a jazz musician anymore. It's just music, you know what I mean? But it was a whole catalyst from going to them jam sessions at Willa Minas. All right. When I DJ, I don't look at the audience. And I think, you know, it's like a, there's someone of a fear because I know that I'm doing something. different. And my whole thing is like, you know, force you to my will to my side of the street. I'm not going to play with your own radio, but I'm going to trick you into dancing to music that you

might not know, but I'm going to make it sound good and artistic. Are you channeled into the energy, the audience? Because for me, it's one thing to see a Bilal show when I'm drumming with you. but it's a whole not I feel like the very first time I saw a Bilau show in terms of to see how he does in the world it was a teachable lesson so do you remember the run that you did you and music soul child did a series of shows together like in 2000 slightly before your album came out he was pretty much established by then and for me I was there and I was really excited to see how would a quasi mainstream audience take to you? I could say this in hindsight 25 years later. Like much to my chagrin, they were frozen and it was so jarring to them that like, you know, I was trying to figure out like, well, wait, how come they didn't get the elation magic I felt when I first heard his voice.

And then I started like, oh, man, people are just dumb. They don't know what real art is and da-da-da. They just want the hits. Like, I was in a mind state of really not understanding subculture, mainstream, and you can't do what I did for at least the first 10 years and really have a knowledge of the science of it all.

I remember those shows, and the flip side was, too, from an artist's perspective, it seemed like, and I don't know how to say this politically correctly, because I'm going to just say what it felt like. It felt like music was a little intimidated. I knew he respected it. But for me, I was more mad that the audience didn't instantaneously have the same reaction I did. And it made me doubt myself.

It was a shock, but still not like it was bad. It was just like, whoa, whoa. With you, though, and I seen like four of those shows in a row, like during that month, either we were like on the same circuit or you just did a lot of shows in LA and each show you would get even more intense more like you didn't shy away from it whereas like I would have instantly chicken shit it and brought it down like oh okay they don't feel it let me let me sneak this on you and your reaction was the exact opposite like oh really now I'm a really show y'all motherfuckers what's up and so how aware are you or where are you

can I ask sort of in hindsight did you have a conscious fear of rejection and your main reaction is well let me triple down on this shit and show you all

because you know I was Michael Jackson pop corn jiff all day like the crazy you are the more I love it like oh my God he's this is the greatest shit ever what was in your head at that time period I came from just straight just being an artist

And I thought If I don't get in the applause As long as I get a shock It's It don't matter You know So any reactions better than No reaction

I looked at it like Oh man they were fucked up That's what it was That's exactly what it was I was always like looked at it Oh man this shit is out Even when I was in the fire I would lose solos

because cats would be like, yo sing it to straightway. I've never saying shit in the straight way. So I'm used to just doing shit even at church up to them where people get like, what the fuck? And even singing jazz, I was scatting more so than even singing.

So I always saw that face. You've always been a proud weirdo. And I love that because I am. I always looked out of the audience and saw this. Like, I was like, ah, they got, they get it. I guess I'm misconstrued

to a certain point I started thinking that was the, that was the smile. That was the, it was on the inside. Is that insulting to say you always been a proud weirdo to me? Like, because I'm a weirdo too in a way. So, yeah, I praise it. Yeah, yeah, fuck it.

Like, you want it anyway. They just don't know what they want. Yeah, I'm just like, I always like the black sheep or the cast that was being out. Like, I remember reading Miles Davis books and him being like, man, I've just got to a point. I was like, fuck it.

And I just were doing the whole show with my ass to the crowd. Fuck this shit. Like, you know what I mean? So I guess I could get into a place. Sometimes I can't get into a place like, fuck this shit and go inside and perform, you know? Is there a memory of a show

in which you might have felt you took it too far? that you recall? And would you sing it with Jag? Oh, yeah. Because them show was right there. I'm singing with fucking Jack. Oh, my God. That's a Jack.

Jack will go. She was a shock jock too. So it was like almost trying to see in my head, I was like, oh, let me see how far she'll go. I guess in her mind, she's like, let me see how far it goes.

Like, oh, shit. All right. So let me. ask this question then. So when you know you are headed to a jam session, are you thinking this is about to be like gladiator wartime? Like it's going to be an arm wrestling match and who can I outdo? Who can I son? Who can I? There was moments where, like, again, Michael Jackson, popcorn jiff, where it's just like, what's going to happen tonight?

Like, it was- Is it going to be flowed, Jerry? No, I mean, and shout out to all of them, especially, I remember coming home from tour, honest to God, and, you know, frightened of Fetian in Asia, like somehow. They have to be there. They whooped that toy story been in into shape the summer of 2001

and like you know and then it was like oh shit we gotta come with I remember having a conversation with the roots like the last two minutes of their show we got to get to that level and shit so I was feeling the pressure but would you often go especially during the period between 97 and 2005

when black little like these jam sessions are happening are you thinking in terms of like battle or just like it's how you feel at that moment? I just know I wanted to get up there and make a statement. You know what I'm saying? I knew that.

I was like, oh man, I hope I get up there tonight. Like I had that feeling like this day. Okay. So John Legend, back when he's John Stevens, not knowing he was in the audience for a majority of these jam sessions would basically just say that, you know, whenever Bilal would come on, then it'd be like, uh-uh, I'll do it next week.

I'll come back next week. I'll come back next week. I'll come back. One of my favorite moments of yours is in Dallas where we're doing Erica's birthday. And, yo, I... Look, this is a very old reference, but if our listeners could pause the podcast,

and go to YouTube and watch Ralph Carter, aka Michael Evans of Good Times fame. Oh. Sing when you're young and in love at a rent party for Helen. Helen on 227. No. And every line, James Evans is in the audience like, that's my boy.

That's, you know, like that person. Because the way that Prince would often enter our lives, you know, by this point in his 30th year, Prince knows the myth of Prince is a thing. And, you know, he would just appear out of nowhere. And I knew he was there simply because I know the size of his bodyguard. So even though you're watching silhouettes, there's a point where, you know, Prince enters the nightclub.

And in my head, I'm looking at James, like, yeah we about to show him what's up and I'm looking based on where prince is sitting I can see the bodyguards way in the back and Omar just finished singing and I think Omar did a little boy Saturdays and he did a cover of a golden brown and then below comes up I knew I wanted to start with soul sister first and then warm him up and then I knew when sometimes comes it's going to be on

and sure enough we did a very nuanced soul sister and you know this is in the back watching and then when we get to sometimes dog it's like Prince levitated and was in the front row now I know

that game because he did it once to another singer where this other singer was given a concert in his hometown and there was very strict instructions like, you know, like no distractions, no whatever. Prince knowing who the fuck he is decides, I'm going to stand right in the wings and watch you.

And sure enough, you know, the singer like looks to the left and gets paralyzed and literally freaks out even though, you know, he goes through the song and walks off stage, screams at the staff, like, get rid of him, get rid of them, you know, that sort of thing. And I could tell, ah, this is a flex thing. But again, Balao, never coweres to any. He's one of the most fearless performers I know. He just, he was in the front row without the bodyguards and Balao them back down.

He just went even crazier. Do you remember that moment at all? I do. I don't remember the performance, but I remember coming off the stage and you coming over and saying, yeah, we got him and you didn't need to let him come up on stage, man. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he was like, Prince was at the front and you didn't even let him come up on stage. I think he wanted to come up and jam with us.

And you just ignored him, bro. That was awesome. I felt like shit. I was like, that was the one time I was too zoned out. I know you made up for it. I know y'all saw each other again. Every time I saw Prince, it was weird. What? Every time.

I want you to tell this version of the story. All right. And I apologize, listeners. I know, I feel like this is a group discussion more than it is like. No one's not because Below did so much stuff after Prince died and stuff and did a lot of performances and owed to him. So no, this is. makes this is good please i want to know okay so all right one of my favorite moments i believe allows in town putting the finishing touches on jimmy was a rock star and star 69 at electric lady

for common's um electric circus album and this back when it was just mammoth 24 hours like you know and steve can also attest to this like usually vocals common would do vocals like in the day 11 a.m. till 3 or something and then like Al-Musian and James comes in, we'll work on some music and then Colin thumbs up, thumbs down it, and we'll

create the music at night and then he'll work on the song on the day, right to it and all that stuff. So I knew that Bilal was doing his vocals and we decided to take a dinner break. And it's 2002, so kind of this is the beginning of

the neuriety of everything, catching on. Like, we're no longer these unknown, obscure underground artists, like, everyone's going golden platinum. And with that, you get invited to industry events. So, the first, like, major thing that we go to is somewhere, like, I think the Apollo Theater had a nightclub attached to it. And Kelly Clarkson and what's old boy's name with a pro, Justin. Orini. Orini. Right. So it was like the first year of American Idol,

and those two were kind of doing like a tour. I don't know what project they had. Was it Justin Loves? They had a movie. Yeah. Clarks. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, they were to promote something. And so they invited us to like come up to the Apollo and da da da da da da da da da. And we went there for a bit. And then it was me common in Bilau. Steve, did you roll with us then? I think you were part of this. Yeah, I hang out at the Apollo all the time. But it wasn't the Apollo.

It was like a club next to it, like club Apollo. But whatever the case was, this was also the period, which Prince was knee-deep in his Jehovah's Witness phase. And that's the Prince that I like to avoid because he would, Do nothing but preach at you for hours. And so someone comes up and says, oh, Prince is on his way there. And that was literally like our check please moment. I never thought I'd run away from my idol the way we did.

Like we were like, hey, let's get out here because he's just going to keep us here all night and talk about God. So let's go. So we snuck out. We snuck out the back, got back to Electric Lady Studios to start mixing. Jimmy was a rock star and then the phone rings brand new receptionist says Amir

there's someone named Prince asking for Prince and I was like what someone from named Prince asking for Prince and I pick up the phone and he says hello and I'm like hello he says Prince

I said huh I'm speaking to Prince I said, my Amir means Prince. So he would always do that game with me. And he's like, how long will you guys be down there? And I'm like trying to think of a lie,

but you know, he makes, we're leaving. Yeah, but we were mixing the song. So I was like, yeah, we're here all night.

Meep, so Prince shows up. Did he knock? No. Yeah, for puff of smoke, he shows up. At 2.30 in the morning, and we're mixing, Jimmy was a rock star, was a very, very intricate song.

And we play it for him, and his mind is blown. Like, he gives us all the praise and, like, wow, he really likes it. And by the way, Prince is on Star 69. He's playing keyboards all over it. So him in common, like, had a really good relationship. Anyway, it's a point where he's like, I want to talk to you guys. And it's like, it's a fourth person and it's not Erica. and it's not Steve.

Maybe it was Glasper. It was a fourth person with us. But the only way I could describe it is if you Google the album cover to the who's the kids all right, you know, they're all sleeping like on each other's shoulders. It became a religious battle

and all I remember was like Bilau was basically going toe to toe to over prints. Oh yeah, because you guys. Islam Christianity Do me common and whoever the third person is just sitting on the floor, sleep on

each other's shoulders. Good for you. Good for you. I remember that. And I just wake up occasionally and Blown Prince are just Do you remember battling him at all like just with theology? Like it was a two hour conversation.

He was saying he had different takes on verses from the I think I was just trying to relate to him. And I was like, oh, you know, oh, that's in the Quran too. And I was trying to have a conversation with him, but I don't think it was working out. Yeah, I just remember you kept going behind him. You kept going behind him and then going, stop. Yes.

And I was like, I'm trying to stop. But he had a question, oh, yeah, well, what about this? And I would just be like, ah, oh, my God, don't. That was a long time before he passed. So, like, y'all kept seeing each other throughout the years. I mean, I mean, I know y'all did because y'all have a whole relationship. But what about you, Bilal and Prince? Like, how did that one conversation kind of evolved or did it?

No, it was just like a, it evolved into, I think the way I broke out of it was I started asking him about his shoes because he had a dope-ass white cheese that the zipper was diamonds. Like the zipper was full long, it looked like a diamond ring, but it was the zipper was made out of diamonds. So I just started talking about that. Sounds like a very religious man, yeah.

No, so I started talking about his boots. And then we kind of like skip, skip everything. Yeah. I think what stopped did DiAngelo come in or something? Hell no. Something happened. Well, no. I said basically like Russell, because we were mixing Jimmy on 48 tracks, and it was very old school.

Of course, now, 25 years later, you can do everything on your computer. Things are remembered. But if you're working on like an old school SSL board, a guy like Steve has to, it'll take him like three hours to notate everything that we did on the. mix. Like, you just can't go to studio and be like, hey, put my song up. Like, Steve would have to take, you know, an hour to two hours of readjusting all our mixes.

Sure, that's what I did. It's called recalling a mix, correct? Correct. No, you're absolutely correct. The fantasy of my whole, like, thought of Prince being like, oh, the loud I'm you, you the neck, I can see it. Nah. No. No.

He said, you know, you're the. Black Beck, you remind me a Beck. And I was like, Beck. Don't meet your hair. I remember I'm saying, and I was like, huh? Don't meet you. Black Beck. He was like, Beck.

Like, you got a, he's like, you got a little bit. You could go rock if you wanted. You could bring that sensibility into your shit. Stay away from my shit. But I was like totally like Beck. He was like, yeah, you know your shit. You remind me in Beck. I was like, I don't keep that.

man, back's my boy. I respect that. He calmed down. He calmed down. As with most people, and maybe they'll still happen to me too, like, after you do like seven years of your spirituality phase or your religious phase, forth back into your regular self. So in 2007, you calm down a lot. But I do remember saying like, yo, we got to wrap this mix up.

When he left, it was like, 5.30 in the morning. And you're not really supposed to mix when you're tired. So kind of the radical jarring way that song sounds to me

is sort of indicative of the night we had to endure of that two and a half hour preaching that that's ceremony or whatever. So a win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years. since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important.

Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer,

Zoh Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously,

it's like 100% they believe everything. But at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fell is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them.

Listen to eating while broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about, and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Kugler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is?

I don't know. You mean the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president? Does La Crosette. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night.

It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one. I like that. It is an actual Polish saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes.

Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Poll show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of IHard Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories, stories from the biggest businesses in industries, while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This season of Math and Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death Mike Sessario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken, take-two interactive CEO Straussle. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business.

Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and her own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top. Listen to math and magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your. podcast. What were your expectations with first born second? One, why did you name it firstborn second? And did you have expectations for it? I named it first born second. That was my second name. I was just trying to do like a weird name. So I think it was called a hot glass of or cold glass of hellfire and tunes hated it. So I was like, I want something that's kind of double on Contra or whatever. I don't even think that's what it was. I was just like, I'm gonna be out. He's like, that don't even make sense. So then I was, I'm my mom's second child. So I was like, this is my first album, second child.

Got it. He was like, that's weird, but all right. You know. Was the title track biographical, the closing song? No. Yeah, it was just a while shit. It wasn't the order of biographical. This is just writing something wild, something strange. I guess he always had like a rock wildness to our shit. Right. This is where I become professional. I'm totally skipping the sometimes story because I don't think I could tell that story better

than I told it at the Glass House, live the Glass House album. You did a good job. You left something out, though, because I did hear you tell the story because I don't want you to skip the sometimes just in a sense of like, since we talk about the- What part did I skip? No, no.

You didn't skip nothing in a sense of how it came together. However, y'all did skip on the sense of how this is the most be loved Below song and like it never became a single off that album and why that was a thing. It was almost a single. When? It was almost a single. It was like the last shot they wanted to make it a single for starting on a new album. I think it was, um, that's me that works up.

Steve Stout. Steve Stout wanted to do a video. And he was like, this is a, we need to do a video on this. But I think, um, they pick fast, Lane Blal. I remember being here doing radio. And I was like, is it really because of Dr. Dre? Stout went on record to say on this podcast that he really regrets kind of how the ball got dropped with you because, you know, he felt that you were that supernova figure that really, you know. And I hate that whole could have been a contender talk.

because, you know, for a lot of artists that do get to the mountaintop, we see what happens to them. From my perspective, when I did this record, I wanted to be a part of the filler cuts. Because I feel that the mark of a great artist, like Stevie Wonder, like Prince, I don't like the singles. Like Prince singles, delirious, let's go crazy. No, I'm going to listen to Dorothy Parker.

Like, for me... A great tradition. Why does singles got to be that? way. Like, I've been screaming this to you for years about these singles. Artists don't pick the single. It was hardcore back then. I feel like the Mark of a Choo artist

is, who has the best filler? Like, and to me, a lot of our favorite songs on this record are the out of the cuts. The radio songs were fast-slain. Soul Sister and Love it. But we was on Queen of Sadity sometimes. When would you call? Like, why?

Because you're a different mind-state I was working Urban Radio at the time and I was like y'all are not listening to the women. All the men are making songs. I'm making these decisions about these. Dr. Dre had something to do with it. Yeah, I'm saying that was Interscope Records. Like I, that's why I wanted to be signed to

initially I wanted to be signed to Kadar because I wanted it. The core of the album was songs like that. And then the singles we did after everything was done, you know. I was happy to work with Dre, though, you know, so I didn't really have no complaint because it's Dr. Dre. All right. So can you describe that process? Like, how do you meet Dr. Dre?

How do you work with him? Like, what was it like? It was polarizing. One minute we just in Jim's office. And then the next day, we were riding up to like this place. Don't even look like a studio. And there's like some gate goes back. And it's like all these dope-ass cars.

We go in there. And that was the first time I saw that made speakers in a studio. And it was like six speakers, like six. Like it was like three at top, three wolfers at the bottom. And then he had the, I've never seen anybody turn. the console all the way up to 11 and he turned it all the way up playing

I think Fastly was the first joint you did and it was the loudest shit I've ever heard in my life but nothing fit, broke, nothing in the speakers crackled. It was amazing but it was painful at the same time. That was when I noticed he was the only one in the studio that didn't have

earbud in it. Everybody that was working there had it. Like, they knew what was up. But I didn't want to tell them to turn it down because that's Dr. Dre. So he might have some real hearing loss issue. He has to because that was the loudest

that I've heard about. Like, it was stadium loud, but in a small room. Soon we're going to have hearing aids by Dre. So, I will get murdered if I do not ask this question. Can you tell us where in the hell is the Love for Sale album?

This is probably of all Soul Quarian-related projects, not related to, is this the year that that makes a record? Your fan base, I almost feel like you should never release Love for Sale or whatever because it's like the legend of it is more than what it will equal. But what is the story of love for sale just never coming out? Tied up in a bunch of shit with inner school and moyo and tunes pass and that was their label so it got shifted over to Falu who's the brother

and for a long time I had I didn't even know where the files were but I think Fah has the files now so right now he might have gotten he might have gotten a files from after the moon cast he got his hands on it or something but I know

Fah has the files Fah seems like he got his fingers on a lot of things because I'm like, man, those two past all that history. I got to tell that history. But the Interscope, I think Interscope owns it, but we have the files. We have the mix because everything was mixed. Do you have a desire to see it through or release it or? I did at one time, but then I just stopped.

Every time I put my mind into one inch of release a little. guess kind of like doesn't work out. I was trying to get it. It came up to try and release it again. I remember I was talking to Naive from Universal and he said that there was maybe a interest. But I'm just on this thing where it happened and it happens. You know, it was already a lot of people claiming it. and having claims to it anyway. So, I just fucking, you know, it was so funny, because while I was doing this shit, the people that want to hold on to it didn't like it.

I don't think I've heard it. So I was going to say, what direction was it that made it so jarring? Like, people know what they're getting when they get with you, correct? I would think, but, I mean, around the time that I started recording it, I was kind of full on, like, I think that was a lot of the stage.

I was heavy and drinking, you know, just, I wasn't the easiest to kind of work with. So I think that kind of lent itself to what, where it happened and why it never went out. And then towards the end, I just went on strikers showing up to make the album. What year is this, y'all? Jew, love for sale is 2003. 2003. I was going to say, I just doing this last run of Detroit I did in the summer,

to my pleasant surprise, heard like five to six other Jay Dilla collapse that I didn't realize that you did. Like, because Dilla was going to, they had agreed to let me produce have. and then let Dilla produce the other half. But then Dilla started getting sick.

I was going out there to Detroit. He was working happy. That was my vision for the record to have Dilla, like, executive produced, but just let me get my shit off and then him come in and kind of, like, dialing back. Because I was like, let Dilla dial it back because it'll still be a little bit out. And then he had brought James in. So I was like, it's in good hands. But then he started to get sick.

So that kind of threw me into a loop and I started drinking more, just upset and shit. And then just arguing with everybody about it and just trying to keep the vision of what I wanted alive. But like not knowing how to finish his tunes, you know. And Diller has started making some out shit for me to. do like he did this one track i just didn't even know how to put it together because it was so out oh the county i knew exactly what you're talking about i was like he's the only one that can fucking help me like what am i going to do like yeah i i didn't know with it he programmed it in his mbc and i didn't know where the one was and it was i had no idea yeah and he would be like

yo, you can't understand this this is my year. And you have to be in the booth like, and one. And I'd be like, I got it. So like, when he passed, I was like, and that's it. I'm lost. The fuck. I hear that beat to this day, because

randomly, I don't know, who played that beat for me? Me, I found that beat. And to this day, I don't know where the one is. And I'm the king of berating someone for not knowing where the one is. And. Yeah. Yeah.

So for you now, and I guess this could also tie into a love surreal and also airtight and in another life, like this period, especially you kind of leaving the M2MA organization and whatnot. And like how do you, how did you manage to kind of on your own figure out how to navigate? with you kind of at the driver's seat, whereas you would have a team in management and people to make decisions for you. But as an indie artist, what were your basic plans, like in terms of getting your art out there?

I didn't really have a plan. Like, I had went just for a long time after that album got bootleg and I didn't have a plan. It was just hanging out at my girls out, making shit up on garage band. not really knowing what was going on like if I was still signed if I wasn't if I wasn't signed

you know if I was able to kind of get a record deal people that I had fell out of contact with the um in two maize so I didn't know what the hell was going on and my boy Steve McKee he was still in the studio

in Philly. So I just, I started going there because he knew, like, whenever we would do shows, I would just be in my hotel where making beats on my garage there. So he was like, I got the studio, play me the shit that you've been doing on your garage room. And I played him in shit and I turned into airtight revenge. But I was just making shit up on my computer, just waiting around to know when we could get back in. And then, you know, to do it. all that shit fell apart so I was kind of like self-conscious but I can go into my head and just entertain myself at any point so like that's what I just did you know and then from doing that I started hanging out and I became friends with Sarah creative partners working on their stuff and shop feet was introduced me to Andrew Meyer

who works with Adrian Young now but he just had this small label that he was putting Shaftit's records out through in Shafti I was like man your shit is funky but it's electronic and they're letting you do whatever you want and we just hang it out with flying Lotus and just that whole crew I was like y'all remind me of the New York crew but out here in LA and plug research cast was like, we'll sign what you doing. And I had the shit that I was, you know, shit I was just working out on at Steve's studio and they dug it.

You know, so I was like, I don't know if I'm still signed. I don't know if I put shit out of whatever. Fuck it. Let's get sued so we can find out where I'm at. So what happened? It's a good business player. Well, nothing happened.

No, no. nothing happened. So it was like, oh, let's just keep going. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me,

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault

and Our Stars and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable.

And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up.

If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures, it's like, what? Today now, obviously, it's like 100%. They believe everything. But at first it was just like, you got to go get a real job. There's an economic component to community striving.

If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. And what I mean by fail is they don't have money to pay for food. They cannot feed their kids. They do not have homes. Communities don't work unless there's money flowing through them. Listen to eating wild brewers. broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network

on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes.

What Cougler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. Do you meet the president? You think Canada has a president You think China has a president Les Wauque Rousette

God, I love that thing I use it all the time I wrap it in a blanket And sing to it at night It's like the old Polish saying Not my monkeys, not my circus It was a good one I like that snake

It is an actual Polish saying It is an actual Polish saying It is an actual poland Better version of Play Stupid Games Win Stupid Prizes Yes Which by the way wasn't Taylor Swift Who said that for the first time

I actually thought it was I got that wrong Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of IHeart Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This season of Math and Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Lvonel. liquid death Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken, take two interactive CEO

Strauss-Zalny. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and her own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it Millie makes it rise to the top. Listen to math and magic. Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So for a lot of people, especially Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they...

Got the new ones? Who are the Alphas? Gen Alpha. You got to start back after Gen Z. You got to start to the letter A. Yeah, the new ones. Wow. Your work with Kinsk Lamar is kind of their introduction or your reintroduction.

or your reintroduction. How deep involved were you with Tipa Butterfly, like, were you guys just always, was it like a second coming up still Aquarians where you're just always on standby, or were you there to just specifically work for one song? Yeah, I just came to the first, I did like a few sessions,

but I came in at the last half of the record. Like they already, but LaVoy had already wrote the chorus for that song. on these walls, I just came in to do that. And I kind of recorded it so fast that Tenture was like, oh, go this up, put this up, let me see what you can do. And it kind of just turned into that. And was he familiar with you?

Or was it just like AR Boys sings? Like, how much did he know about you? No, he had wanted me to be on the first album, but I don't know what happened. It didn't work out in time. and so we had always said that we wanted to because he's cool with the whole sarah creative partners so i knew from then and then fly low and of course thunder cat so and and um scarce martin like those are my cats i've known them for years so do they recognize you in a way of like yo

fucking blal and that's it because you're older a couple of years older than of these folks, right? Not Sarah. Oh, not Sarrah. Oh, not Sarat. Sarat. Talk about, uh, Kendry.

Um, about Tauntleroy. Kendry and, and, yeah, yeah. I'm, you know,

ironically, those cats, they thought I was their age. I don't know. I can see. I was just saying it. Well, you're youngest.

Like, even now, like, you look the same way you did. Mine's the dreadlocks. Like, this is like talking to you back in the day.

So. And being a weirdo keep you fresh and open a new thing. So that keeps you young too. Yeah, I guess so. So now that you're in a space where, like, your level of artistry, and I'm talking about, like, even the stuff that's happening in Australia right now, like, with, like, you know, like hiatus coyote and, you know, like, do you now feel as though the world has caught up to you and you're able to, like, for you,

where's your market at? Like who, what marketplace embraces you the most? I still don't know. I like you, Blau. You're a pure artist. Like, and I think it's important to not. Because every tour, every tour

different audience shows up. It's weird. Like, we just... No, that's a blessing right there. Beautiful blessing. You still get the cast that show up that I want to hear the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

album. I want to say you still get some time jailed. And I'm getting more more like cast than what a year the newer stuff. And they don't

necessarily look like the first album audience per se, you know? So it's kind of a mix. I never know. If I knew, I would be probably further along.

Kimber told me that well, the way that radio is in Australia, like the way that your radio show was, Laia, that is actually mainstream radio in Australia, which really explains... Oh, like, specialty shows?

Well, yeah, but the thing is, is like, over in Australia, you can still hear Bilau, and then they'll put on Sabrina Carpenter, and then they'll put on Charlie X, X,X, and then they'll put on hiatus kind of... They got no rhyme or reason. They just, sir.

Right, which is, I mean, shit, we're doing our... our New Year's Christmas shit over there in very big venues because Australia hasn't fallen under the way of like where Clear Channel takes over radio and segregates it and makes you a niche artist. For you now though, especially with the Just Brightness Project, do you feel like people are slowly now coming around after having, you know, been on this journey for 25 years? Yeah, I feel like people are a nice. Enough has happened where, you know, it's the thing that I'm doing is starting to settle.

I feel that a little bit. And I've been a little bit of getting a little bit more grounding on the business side, too. So, you know, for a long time, I didn't really give a shit about the business shit. I just wanted to make enough money to smoke weed and, you know, pay rent. Then you had kids. So a lot of shit changed. I got kids, like, you know. Right.

Yeah, you got children. My approach is different. You've done so much work with so many other people. I got to ask you about, like, some of our favorites. One of the last complete albums of a hip-hop group that I totally love was Hell Hathenow Fury. And I didn't look on the credits to know that you were singing on Nightmares. I just heard your voice like, wait a minute.

That's what I'm. How did you hook up with the clips for Hell, I have no fury? I was down there working on my record. They wanted me. With the Neptunes? Yeah, I went through this. I went through a phase of.

They got a Neptune. They had me working with everybody. Oh, that's it was right after he did the record for Justin Timberley. You know, he was doing just banger after banger. And so every time I would get into a room with cats on that level. Talk about your working relationship with Beyonce. And the fighting temptations, collaborations of at all. Oh, that was dope.

I think she asked for me to be a part of that. So that was dope. I didn't even, I think they had in mind it to be something else. but she like specifically asked for me to join that joint, which is dope, you know. I always thought she was ill. And just such a student of the music, you know, I mean. You all get back in the studio together,

and we all recorded it together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was there with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. They wrote the song. So we all was in the studio working on it. That was a learning experience, too. Awesome. because they are very like particular about what they want very particular and I'm like I have the time

don't know what I'm doing I like to make what I call beautiful mistakes and they're like not beautiful by the mistake you got to do it like yeah you got to do it like this or you know and every time they would tell me to do something I would do it different like I wouldn't even know what I'm doing, you know. They're like, do that again. I'm like, I don't know. Did you record it? What was one of the hardest sessions you have to do?

That was probably one of the hardest sessions. Because Beyonce's like a professional in the studio, she just, she's got her, her studio technique is ill. You know what I mean? She can knock it out, nose. All right, put this. I'm going to do this, double it. You know, and I was just in there, like I said, making beautiful mistakes.

everybody was just like, ugh. Didn't Jermaine Debride produce you on Jay's Fallen? Yeah. Yeah. How would that come to me? I was just a random. It's on American gangster.

Yeah, that was a random phone call. And it was like, hello, is this Belal JZ would like for you to come to the studio? And this is the address. And then randomly I showed, I got here.

It was like some random building You go up And Jay-Z and Beyonce Was in the studio waiting for me Like hello I was like what It was like being summoned By the president or something

Oh did if I wanted to Beyonce Put the bug in his ear Like you know Blau'll be I don't know maybe But when I got there He knew everything he wanted me to do He was kind of he knew What he was looking for me to do

I was like man I didn't even know you knew about my shit like that but wait a minute didn't did I not use you once for any of those J. Gig yeah the Carnegie Hall shit yeah I was about to say I think you came aboard

for Carnegie Hall but I think this was before that okay okay it was the Carnegie Hall thing happened after that but I definitely remember he asked for you you know I know for the fact that those two

were big ass fans of yours did you have any clue whatsoever. But at the time when you're recording Master Teacher, with its infamous hook, I Stay Woke, did you have any idea about how you singing that hook would wind up almost being like kind of the zeitgeist of where we are right now

politically? No. That was... Talk about Master Teacher because it's one of my favorite songs on New America, but it also is just such a beautiful mess of a song. Like, I don't know where the hook starts. I don't know. Georgia, Georgia and Malte.

Yeah. What does she like to work with? Because I was such a fan of hers, but I've never really got to chop it up in a way that I wanted to. I've never got to watch her make. beats or anything. He is a genius. Georgian is a genius. Incredible, incredible musician.

And nasty beatmaker. Like, wow. She's dirty. Like, so working with hers, dope. You know, she went to the new school. What year did you first go there? I went there from 97 to, like, 90 like to end of 98 so the weird thing is that had I did what my dad wanted me to do

I would have been a senior because I you know I took years off to I called myself paying for the roots demo my dad thought I was saving up for college really I was saving up for the roots demo so you know by 94 I was like all right I got to get into a college like I let four years go by So I'm either It was cheaper to go to the new school Then it was to Juilliard So if there wasn't a record deal In my future

I would have probably started going to The new school from 93 To 97 So somehow our paths would have quasi crossed For sure Had I done that But who else was there besides you in Glastper

Was Chris there as well or No Chris wasn't there Sedgwick Mitchell was there Keon Harold Marcus and E.J. Strickland brothers and saxophone they was there.

Is this under Ellie Howells tutelage? Yep. Okay. Shout out to Ellie Howl. Yeah, shout out. Casey Benjamin. He's there.

Rest and peace, Casey, Benjamin. Rest and peace. No wonder y'all is so fine. Were they all as advanced as now Or is it just like, was it intimidating? I wasn't intimidated. I was, it was just right back to high school, though. Like, I always felt like as the singer,

just trying to prove myself to be around the bad cats, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you know, hey, what about that suspended for, huh? Yeah. Soon by then, you got their respect. Oh, yeah, well, yeah, because Rob was the first one to be like, this shit is dope. He's dope, y'all, you know, but he, his mother was a vocalist, so he kind of, like, warmed them up to me. But I was kind of the weirdo, because I really didn't fit in with the singers either, because I was,

I still had PTSD from high school. So I came to jazz school just scatting, nothing but scatting. Like I, so. How confident were you in your scatting skills? Like, when did you first adapt to it? I was mad. By then, I was mad confident because I started to learn all the, so, like I had learned all Lee Morgan solos.

I learned all fucking Miles Davis's solos. I'm here. You tell me this. what I remember. I had them on memory. Yeah, but I didn't know he was the Outcast. But that was my way in. I had to like, I had to like go to the jam sessions and just battle trade, trade bars with these cats. And I had learned changes by then.

So I was, I was cutting some of them cats back then. So did you? Of course I couldn't now, but. So, but did you have to like, did you subscribe to the John Hendricks, vocalese I used to hang out in John Henson's house Wait

You knew John Hendricks? Yeah because I had tried Talk about that I didn't know y'all knew each other Yeah I tried out for the Manhattan Transfer in college And me and Rob used to go over to John Hendrix's house

And jammed with him Oh my God He used to cut both me and Rob whistling and I would be in there scatting all my scatting shit and he would just whistle some of the baddest shit but yeah I would go over his house and do duo all the time that was the cool thing about the new school because they could get in contact with whoever they knew if they had it in the rolydex and then they would just ask them right out you know we got a young cat that just wants to chill with you they used to be everything to me I was like John Hendrix what

All right, so for our listeners, let me explain it. For our listeners in the jazz world, there's a thing called technique called Vocalice, which is basically, it's kind of a version of we invented the remix where they would take an established, if a song becomes an established standard, and it was traditionally jazz, then a figure like Eddie Jefferson or John Hendricks

or his other group, Lambert Hendricks and Ross. Yeah, they would add lyric. to these songs, but the thing was, you had to be faithful to the definitive solo. So for a great example, listen to John Hendricks,

Freddie Freeloader, with Bobby McFerrin, Al Jaro, George Benson, and John Hendricks, in which the four of them, note for note, Nail, Miles,

Adderleys, like all the solos on the original and I just, to me, it just seems so intimidating, one to study a solo, but then to memorize it. So, like, as a singer, am I able to put like a fake book in front of you? Fake book is a jazz Bible. Am I able to put a fake book in front of you and you instantly read the notes and notate and know exactly where to go?

Or do you have to listen and study the song? And... Back then, I could. Now, no. Every since I got signed, I fucking forgot everything. But back then, and I'm glad you did. Back then, I played enough piano.

I was on All-City Jazz Band as piano in Philly. What? They had beaten, beat me over the head to the point where I was reading charts in the big band. I forgot all that shit, though. But yeah, in college, I didn't want to study with none of the vocal, was so I studied with Reggie

Workman, the bass player for Train. I started to Reggie Workman and I studied with his guitar player Armand Dunilin Armin Danilian but he's like a jazz virtuoso

guitar player but his whole shit was man you got an ear like him and Reggie would always say you got an ear like a musician so you should lean in into that, like just hearing things as a musician. And from then on, like, they had me buying saxophone concerto books

and learning the concerto, the saxophone concertals. And then Armin introduced me to Rob B'Shaenkar's music. And then we just started learning all of the Middle Eastern skills and all of that. And by then, I was just on a whole other level as far as just hearing, shit and scatting to where the cast I was hanging with they saw me as a musician

like when that around I would say like yeah by the time I got to college like I wasn't intimidated by that anybody no more especially a musician like I was just I heard just like a musician

like I heard everything now I believe that you are the last anointed vocalist Just in terms of the masters of the 60s who wrote the blueprint, like, you're naming people whom, like, you know, I find in Dilla's record collection in terms of sampling. He said he tried out for the Manhattan transfer is what he said.

He said he tried out with a Manhattan transfer. That's what he said. Is there a project that you long to do that? You haven't done yet? Like Manhattan Transfer type groups, like the boy, their counterpart group. Oh, the A. Voices.

Ah, I forget. No, no, no, not them. Not, like Take Six or? Well, I mean, that, but there's another group that I'm forgetting right now. Manhattan Transfer? No, I don't talk about, but we, it's a, no. No, but that's what I was. Do you have a desire to ever put a vocal group together to try some shit out or?

Hmm See, he lives in the presence You didn't think about that once In your 30-year journey, did you? No, no, I did it one time With Erica just on like a skit We was playing around In Electrical League

We did sometimes I'm happy By our King Pleasure Okay And we did sometimes in that beam And we wrote out the harmonies And did it but I never thought that would be cool, though.

I was seriously a jazz hit before I got signed. Like, I got talked into like doing R&B and shit from like the two M-Tumay brothers. Like, I was really wanted to be like Kirk Elling or some shit. Steve, guess what time it is? I'm going to be Kirk Elling. Another record. Guess what time is Steve?

JMI time, yeah. All right, we always say this below. 2025, a real project, 2025. Black, real, black project. Yes. I want to do that. What is so great about working with Robert Glasper? Because y'all work together.

I was supposed to say, we didn't even mention Glass properly. Yes, please tell me about this, this working relationship that you guys have and why it just works. Robert is like, it feels like, it feels like I'm working with my, like with myself because he we have the same kind of thoughts on music on how to blend the genres

and kind of like had this the same sensibility of jazz but go anywhere with it you know so that's like my musical brother a lot of times when we work we're not even we don't even

it's not even planned you know it's just once again like these just cool mistakes and in the middle of the mistakes a mistake we make it mean something, you know. But it's the beautiful mistake. Yeah, when I work with Rob, I don't even, it's so home, you know what I mean?

Where I don't really, I don't really think too much while I'm doing it. I think that's how it has to be. Like, again, when I say in the present, it's how you feel at that moment. With your children, has the epigenetic effect happened? Like, are they singers as well? Do they have musical talent? What do they think when they watch you perform? My kids think I'm odd bird.

Okay. None of them are musicians, even though I've tried my best. You know, they've been in piano and drums and everything. But my kids like art. They like all things art, all things anime. They're in that kind of a world. So I think they could possibly maybe rap. Like when they were little kids, they used to rap because they,

Talib Kuali's son, Amani, we lived across the hall from, I lived across the hall from Talib for a while. And his son Amani used to watch my kids. And I think that's another way that I got into learning the young kids, like Pink Seafood or Liv and all these young musicians. out today because they would always hang out at Amani's house and they had my kids rapping like as little kids. So I know they have the skill to rap, but they want to be like anime cats.

Okay. My wife says that my son Ferris can sing, but he's very secretive with his talents. Like he does, you know, he's shy about it. I don't know why. This is one of the fruit falling far from the tree moments where I'm like, I know. that one of them has a voice in them. But, you know, you're, I was the only musician in my family, though, you know, that kind of like made this step to be a musician.

Like my, I'm the only musician in my family. Everybody else is like, my sister is an electrician. My brother does construction. Like, my father does construction. I come from a family construction workers, really. Why, you want to be an architect and stuff. Wow. Yeah, I'm like the only one that kind of like leaned into music.

I don't come from like a musical family or anything like that. So like everything that I do, I kind of like. Or maybe all the challenges went into your children. You and inherited it. A lot of people ask me what my favorite sessions have been over the years. And a lot of times I'll talk about hard groove, the Roy Hargrove album with Russ at Electric Lady and that whole amazing record. And then I also mentioned my time with Belial up in studio, see an electric lady working on, I guess, are we, is it called Love for Sale, the album that we were working on? Yeah.

Those sessions just, man, you were like- Yeah, you engineered a lot of that shit, dude. You were the first artist who really gave me just complete freedom in the studio to experiment and to, you know, we'd lay stuff down during the day. and then I'd stay late and come in early and sort of do rough mixes for you and just you just let me do whatever. We were doing some real experimental stuff and I wanted to thank you for that

because that was really when I first started to feel my own voice, I guess, as an engineer and producer and stuff like that. Also, if anybody is... Am I the second? Yeah, you're somewhere down the list, but yeah, you're doing. Way, way.

But if anyone's out there looking for a blouse, that they probably never heard before. Check out Black Coffee in Bed, a squeeze song that Blau is gracious enough to with Nikki Jean. Yeah, it's a stream. That's 45, right? Yeah, yeah, it's how you can stream it.

Black coffee in bed. Like coffee in bed. Thank you for that, Blau. That was a big song. You know. Yep. Yeah, we did some real experimental shit. Those were the days.

Yeah. Those were the days. Well, look, man. This being our first professional interview with you. Look, man, what more can I say? You're still one of my favorite creative humans. And oftentimes I have many of what will Bilal do moment when it comes to figuring out what daredevil artistry I want to leash on my audience.

Like from my DJ gigs to like a lot of my bolder. the hell is he doing i think he's doing any of those times where people have asked that usually the green light starts with kind of what would below do so you're you're literally like i know people think of north stars as a person in the past who's like died and you're upholding something but you know you're you're really an exemplary fearless performance artist even Howard Stern says you're one of his favorite singers and he had no clue. What? So we did a tribute to John Lennon and Steve had introduced a song to me called Mother.

Oh, yeah. That, you know, Yoko Ono kind of got John Lennon to, he didn't want to go to therapy. So he went to screaming therapy. and if you listen to the song Mother, that's kind of where the anger of being an orphan really comes out. Starts very gentle, but by the end, John Lennon starts raging mad about his childhood. And I knew that if we were given permission to do that song at Madison Square Garden for the John Lennon tribute, we would steal the show.

And if you listen to the Stern show, the day after that concert, he didn't know you by name, he was like, there was a singer with Jimmy Fallon's band who just absolutely stole, you know, people correct him. That was the roots.

That was the roots. And he was just like, you know, at first he was like, what are these guys doing on the stage? Are they going to rap, like, give a piece of chance? And, you know, And you absolutely floored him.

Wow, that's what's up. Keep on, man. I appreciate your artistry. And thank you very much for doing our podcast. Thank you for having me, Jay. You're one of my biggest inspirations and reasons I'm here, you know. One of my early champions. Thank you for the honor of that, man.

I appreciate it. Yes, sir. On behalf of Laiaa and Bill and Steve, this is Questo, signing out. This is Questlove Supreme, but the one only below. We'll see you next time. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Questlove Supreme. This podcast is hosted by Amir Quest Love Thompson, Laia St. Clair, Sugar Steve Mandel, and myself, unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are Amir. Just walked into the goddamn room, Thompson, Sean G, and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Brittany Benjamin, Jake Payne, and Laia Sinclair.

Edited by Alex Conroy. I know Alex Conroy. Produced for IHeart by Noel Brown. Much Love Supreme is a production of IHart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far.

But I'm John Green, co-hosted the podcast The Away End, with my old friend, On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of IHeart Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, math and magic, stories from the frontiers of market.

Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. Coming up this seasonal Math and Magic, CEO of Liquid Death Mike Sessario. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower. It's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take two interactive CEO, Strauss Selnick, and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Listen to Math and Magic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast.

On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick and Poll show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win Stupid Prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong.

But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick Dick and Poll show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever. you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum

Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network, on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.