The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Carlos Santana

Episode Date: October 27, 2021

Saying this episode of Questlove Supreme is the most spiritual and life changing thus far may have the skeptics scratching their heads, UNTIL you hear that this week's guest is the truly miraculous, Carlos Santana. Listen as the man who has blessed the world with 5 decades of momentous rhythms shares his history, inspirations and his soul with Quest, Team Supreme and our very special guest host, "Captain" Kirk Douglas. Legendary...... Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. What happened to the roll call, yo? Yeah.

Okay. Latency has done us in. Oh, never mind. Never mind. Exactly. Just imagine Fallon. Are we looking for solutions? Yes, we are.

Ladies and gentlemen, let me, let me attest that 2021 is the, yeah, I'm declaring it, 2021 is the year of miracles. And I wanted this platform, this Questlove Supreme platform, so that not, you know, not only the people for myself, I wanted to receive the holy scrolls of wisdom from the gods. And let me just say, be careful for what you ask for because I will declare today on, you know, this recording that my God is definitely a God of abundance, as this year has clearly shown. He's delivered to us today one of the most influential creatives in music. Not a music god, not a veteran, not no. Just absolutely one of the most unique, influential creatives and music.

And it's super, super, super, super rare that we get to speak to someone with over five decades of excellence under their belt. Thank you. No exception. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlef Supreme, the one and only, Carlos. Humberto Santana That are I got the name Carlos Santana

Yes Exactly All right All right How are you I should also note Occasionally I dig into the comments

On our various platforms On YouTube And on IG and Twitter And whatnot And I noticed that Whenever we have An Axe master

Or an axe god Or just any other instrumental god that's not drum related um i don't go that deep into their craft and i will admit that i'm i'm not that well versed in asking super deep questions in terms of guitars so that said this is a rare uh now we're we're a six um uh once again uh we have laia with us we have uh font tigolo we have Sugar Steve unpaid Bill and I decided last minute

to ask my guitarist from the roots Captain Kirk Yes I'm super honored to be here Yeah I wanted to be here I wanted the captain here just so that I don't leave

any stone unturned because you know When we have Pat Muthanee on the show Or even when we had Jack White Cats asked me like well how can you ask him about like Type of strings he used or that like sort of the the jargon that I wouldn't know to ask. I wanted to make sure that, you know, we, we satisfy you nerd. So that's all.

So welcome also Captain Kirk to the, to the podcast. Okay. Actually, Steve, do you want to start with your question first? Oh, well, I narrowed down my thousand questions to two, but they don't really belong at the top of the interview. If you want, I can. Because Steve's real first question was hilarious to me. And no, we're not going to ask that. I will say that.

Oh, you made to do the joke. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I see. Okay. Let me try it. Let me try it. Go ahead. Steve.

And it's only a joke because your career is so long and distinguished that. No, you don't have to explain a joke. All right. So what was it like to work with Rob Thomas? Anyway. So time out. He's on the new record. He's on the new record.

That John Bangit. I know. I know this. I know we love him. We just, it's just Santana is. That was our first thing. I got it.

But we start, we start from the top. And actually, normally I ask about your origins, but I always wanted to know this, the answer to this question. The first hour of your morning, what do you do?

Oh, well, it's a joy. it and an honor to be here with all of you all. And the first thing that I do before my feet touched the ground, I totally connect, ignite gratitude. Because I understand completely that everything that I love about John Coltrane, people that I love, love, you know, with supreme and impeccable integrity, there's grace. and grace is like my

Angela said grace is all around us but we don't want to have to get in it you know and so for me you can access and utilize grace which with grace you can create miracles and blessings and do the impossible I want to access grace

every morning so the first thing that I do I make my mind in my heart be a thousand percent with gratitude thank you for my name next breath. Thank you for my wife. You know, I love drummers so much. I marry the boom, man. The one and only Cindy Blackman, yes, yes. Yes, you know, but again, the main thing for me is those two components, grace and gratitude. With that, you can actually

create the impossible. You know, you can make the invisible, tangible, you know, and so once you understand that what shamans and people like Jesus and shamans, they create alchemy from water to wine. Well, the alchemy, we musicians, you know, we make people happy because most people are not happy unless they're miserable. And so we rescue people from themselves by sound, resonance vibration. A melody and a rhythm makes people believe that they also are worthy to receive directly from God. You know, So we get rid of the wretched sinner stuff, you get rid of that, you know,

unworthy of God's grace. We get rid of that, you know, when we play music. And we invite people to claim your divinity. It's not arrogant. It's not cynical. It's imperative that you claim your divinity so you can get close to John Coltrane and Wayne and Herbie and the genius, genius, genius.

Yeah. Because that's what they did. I knew that was the answer. And I wanted to give you all a preview of what I'm going to be like in about five years from now. You got a little bit more work to do. No good. Yeah. Goals.

Yeah. No, you know what? Because especially the period after the period after the third album, the third record, especially starting with with like the Caravan-sur-I that album I don't know for me

I felt the need to ask you that only because because there's such a spiritual element to those runs that run of records between 72 and 78 that you know I felt in my heart that you know you're more

closer to I should have introduced you as a shaman more than just a musician or that sort of thing. Because in that gratitude, what does that look like, Carlos? Like, is that meditation? Is that just a moment just to sit and what? Gratitude to me looks like where I live now. I mean, I live in Las Vegas, but I also live it in Kauai. And gratitude is a rainbow talking to me.

There's so many rainbows. in Hawaii. And they're specifically the ones that are so loud, they go, zzz, they're hum. This rainbows are so alive. They hum. And I was watching one early this year. And it, like, it tapped me on the shoulder, like, turn around. And because I was reading, turn around. I turned around. Like, oh, and it's this rainbow, as clear as I can see your face. And this rainbow goes, you see me. And I said, yeah, I see you. He says, you know who I am?

He says, yeah, you're God. And he goes, that's right. And you know what? I says, what? He says, I'm looking at you too. That's grace. That's grace. You know, because all of us need to be validated.

You know, everyone in this planet needs to be validated and celebrated because God created us in his image, you know. So I'm very, very grateful that you offer me this platform because the things that I love most in this planet, besides the connection with a supreme being, is spirituality, sensuality, and African music. That's it. You know, because all three of them offer me a door to totality

and completeness and infinity. You know, you know, when you play a solo and gravity disappears, and time disappears and you go into this zone. The basketball players call it the zone. It's called grace. It's called grace.

When you get into that grace and you don't even remember what you did after you played it, that's what real musicians got to turn to the other musicians who'll be pulsing and catting and jiving and jiving and shucking and jiving.

No, no, no, no. Look, man, you can do better than that. Go deeper and access that thing that you're beyond time. Every time you listen to a John Coltrane, I love Supreme. I play this music in every hotel that I get into. Why?

To clean whatever happened the night before. What? Yeah. Whatever happened, whatever they did, I put a Love Supreme, light of some instances that I got from Alice Coltrane, and that room is mine when I came back. Sonic Sage.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It purifies. John Coltrane's music is a, if they would play this on CNN, the world would not be so infected with fear and separation. Dude. But you know that already.

Here's the thing. Good night. Right. Damn. Not to totally. All right. This platform was meant to like review someone's history. But I got to stay here for just a little bit longer.

Only because the reason why I was excited to talk to you is because I'm slowly starting my transformation into what they call doing the work. You know, like the pandemic forced us to do the work. And I was like in a really, really dark place where I wasn't enjoying my creativity. I was squandering it. And it took not working last year for me to actually work on yourself. Like previously, if you were to say this to me in 2018, I would quickly be like on group chat with them like, okay, what drug is you on, right? You know, like when people just think like, uh, spiritual people are crazy, whatever. But it's like I had, I had a moment where, you know, and this is, I'm just a year into this where everything that you're saying, I absolutely believe.

Like, you got to wake up. You got to wake up in gratitude. you got to meditate in the morning. Things I used to laugh at. And I tell people all the time, like I'm literally morphing to the human being I used to laugh at because for some reason, you know,

I guess when you're, when you're most black people in America, especially like my generation, like church is more of like an oppressive religious organization. Like they never teach spirituality. And I'm just learning that now. Like at this stage,

life the second stage in my life and you know it's really good i'm i'm i'm happy to get talked to talk to a musician that basically uses their their their art for that because you know you can clearly hear like i hear the work of coltrane and and that spirituality in in your work and you know i always wanted to know like how how did clive and especially like Walter Yetnikoff, how do they receive you? Because normally with, with, you know, other label heads, it's either like, hand me my hits or, you know, you get dropped on the label and you got to go elsewhere and whatnot. And yet, like, Columbia sat by you for the longest.

And so they let you find your spirituality. So I was always curious as to how you were allowed to explore. those things and not sort of succumb to the pressure. I mean, there were occasional disco moments in 78 and whatnot, but, you know, like, was it hard navigating the spirituality that you have and also, you know, remaining a brand name musician in terms of being a product and being spiritual at the same time? It wasn't hard at all for me because I hadn't used as that was a child. it, this is for me, it's a way of life. It's not a profession. It's not a gig or a job. It's a way of life.

We started with the B-Trola, the records, the A-track, the Cs, the CDs, you know. Those to me are like faucets. It's the water. Music is the water, the living water. So Clyde Davis, Bill Graham and Clyde Davis, when they met me, they realized that I wasn't pedestrian, that I wasn't necessarily a pedestrian guy. What do I mean by that? Well, pedestrian guy, kind of, they settle for you dangle money, and they kind of jump over like a little poodle. You jump over things.

And they realized that was priceless to me as committing career suicide. I'm going to go after John Coltrane weather report, Miles Davis, and they said, but man, there's all really my mind. I was Babeson, Weather Report, whatever. I know, but I need to learn something from them and teach the youngsters this, because I can't just constantly keep doing all you come by and Abraxas and or supernatural or whatever. You know, by the grace of God, again, I'm able to reach the four corners of the world and touch many people's hearts. And, you know, like Tony Williams says, once you sell one record, you're commercial because you sold one record, you know.

So I don't look at like being commercial like a negative. thing. I look at pretty much life the way the ones that I love and I adore, like Arthur Ash, Bruce Lee and Coltrane. People who, Bruce Lee, be like water. A cloud, an ocean, a lake, a bathtub, you know, so what does that mean? It means that you have the capacity to be a multi-dimensional spirit that can play anywhere with anyone in compliment. So when I go to Africa, they know who I am. When I go to Ireland, they know who I am. When I go to Japan or New Zealand, they know who I am. And they know who I am because they play our music in their living room with grandma,

grandpa and the little kids, man. You know, and that's when you enter a whole other realm of like, wow. I go to Paris and the gentleman who's helping us with the luggage and whatever. He says, Santana. I go, hi. He says, and then he points at his tummy. He goes, my wife. Sophia, I go,

I beg your pardon? Sophia, you know, she got pregnant. My wife got pregnant when we're listening to your album, you know, like Samo Batia. And I get that all over the world. So it means that your music,

resonant sound vibration, is able to impregnate not only women but men to believe that they can achieve beyond what religious books or institutions or governments tell them to do. You are a multi-dimensional being. Let me say it really clearly like this.

You cannot behave appropriately unless you perceive correctly. Once you perceive, one more time, you cannot behave appropriately unless you perceive correctly. Once you perceive you are a beam of light that comes from the mind of God, you carry yourself differently. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.

I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big time. to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Where does all

this come from? I mean, I know at some point in mirror you're going to go, well, let's start at the beginning, but I am so curious. I know. I don't even want to start the interview yet. This is a pre-in. Yeah, let Brevin Santana keep going. But seriously, though, where

did this light come from? What? Was it a day? Was it a moment? Like, or was it a week, a month, a study? Where, What does it come from? Like, what was the moment? From being thirsty, you know, I'm always thirsty for adventure,

and I'm not afraid of the unknown or unpredictability. I knew that my first band with the first three albums, we knew that it was fragmented, and some people wanted to journey, some people want to do something else and whatever. And so I started reading the Orantha book and listened to Cold Train only. Okay.

So I listened to the Oranta book. later on, I got introduced to JJ Hurtag's books, and I'll show you what they are. Thank you. And also a course in miracles. All these books that I'm going to introduce you to, they have what you call nowadays spiritual data and how to transform your monkeiness and your donkiness

into an archangel energy, knowing knowledge. Because, you know, sometimes we act like monkeys and donkeys, you know, which means you succumb to what people say, well, you know, it's human nature. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be corny, cute, clever, and predictable. I could be a human being and still say, I'm going to play a melody that is going to make people cry and laugh at the same time. Why? Why? Because they are, on a molecular level, they remember that they also have this gift, imbued gift before we came out of the womb, imbued to create blessings and miracles. That's what music is about.

They're show business, their entertainment, and then there's music to really elevate, transform, and illumine the human consciousness of this planet. So we don't have the stuff that's been having for the last two years, fear and separations. and superiority and racism. All that stuff comes from one word, fear, fear. And that's why I play cult and all the time, because as soon as I play, I love supreme, fear disappears immediately in the room. Wow.

Okay. Now I've got to go into the first question. Okay. Now will you tell us what it was like to work with Rob Thomas? God, Steve. All right. Can you tell me what was your first musical memory? My dad, my father, we were in a yard, in the backyard, in Al-Qalans,

a little town. And it was like 5 o'clock in the afternoon. Everything kind of gives gold, you know, when the sound goes down, everything looks golden. And my father, he was only teaching me how to read and wanted me to teach me how to play the violin. So he opened up the violin case, grab the violin, put it. put it up here like this. And then he goes, Mira, which means look,

Mira. Then he went, and I'm like, what? And then a bird comes over. Didn't the land on this street. And he goes, best? Do you see?

He goes, Otra Vez. One more time. Bird. If you can talk to the birds, you can talk to people. Get it? And I was like,

damn. That's crazy. my daddy do that too. He talked to the birds. Really? Yeah. Wow. See, once you talk to Charlie Bird, that's, Bird Park is like, you're in a whole

of a league, man. So your father was a violinist? Yes. Okay. Okay. Oh, also, what, where were you born? I was born in Outland, Halisco. It's a little town in between Guadalajara in Puerto Bayarta.

If you blink, you missed it. Okay. It's very small. And how long did you stay there? What was your family situation? Did you have brothers and sisters? Was it a musical family? Yes, thank you for asking.

From 47 where I was born until 55, we left because my mom was the one that would always say, Nos Bamos, which means we're out of here. You know, because my dad was already living in Tijuana. and sending us money from Tijuana, you know, because it got really hard to make a living and outline Halisco for my dad and feed four sisters and two brothers and my mom and a lady who was working with us. So there was a lot of people to feed.

And so my mom says, we're out of here. You know, your dad sent me some money to kind of like, you know, make up and console me because they haven't seen me for almost like a year. So he sent me some money for me to buy a stove, though we're living almost in the streets, you know? Okay. And so as you go, I'm going to take this money. I'm going to give it to this guy that your dad knows.

He works as a cab driver in the center of town. I'm going to give him half of that money and use that money, the rest of the half, to feed you guys. But we're going to Tijuana, and we're going to see your dad. And if your dad don't want me or you guys, he has to tell us eye to eye in front of us. So my mom was like that, you know, so I was like, oh. So we all got into one car, man, and we took it like a week. together. And, you know, it's a long story. But, but it's a story of this, man. My story is, my mother is pure conviction, a pure conviction woman. And my dad, pure charisma. I mean,

this dude, man, it was like, people look at him like, like he was like Clark Gable or something, you know, women, oh, the uncle said, you know, they just melt and stuff. So I got those two from my mom, charisma and conviction. And it gave me something that is very important for musicians to show up with not arrogance, but confidence. Like Miles Davis confidence, you know, Tony Williams, confidence. So wait, what happened though, Carlos, when she got there, she wrote up with confidence, but did she succeed, Eden, what she wanted?

Well, yeah, she had to knock on the door where my dad, dad had sent the address from this letter. And it was 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and nobody would answer the door. And so she, so she knocked harder. And then this woman opened the door. And, yeah, and she was, and so, look, first before she answered the door, there was like a whine or darrow in the streets, and she said to my mom, who are you looking for? So my mom described my dad.

He goes, oh, he's inside. Knock again, louder. So she knocked again And the lady opened the door And she started screaming at my mom And cursing at her And she was making such a rock Because my dad came out

And he first thing he looked at Me First thing he looked at West Me And he was mesmered And he was like And then he looked at my mom And the rest of it was like

What are you doing here? Oh Wow And his and his face looked like The NBC Peacock with all the colors in it. And my mom was like, you know, she did her thing. And next thing I know, he left that prostitute

that he was staying with. And then she took us into this other place. And, you know, it was the, it was the worst part of Tijuana. It was the ghetto, the ghetto, ghetto, you know. Right. They didn't even have a roof yet. They were still building this house, you know. I don't want to tell them like melancholy or whatever.

But, you know, it is what it is. And all that stuff gave us conviction, you know, because there's, you can only go up from here, you know. Do you ever go back to your original hometown? Or have you been back to? Yes, I went to Alclan a couple of times. And I started the clinic by the grace of God. Of course you do. Oh, wow.

We started a hospital clinic. We invested. millions because I don't keep track of numbers and records. I don't know how many records I record. But anyway, we're able to have a, what is it called? Foundation. Yes, it is a foundation, but it had a specific name, Santario de Luz, like a sanctuary of light, you know.

And we have the latest. People from Las Vegas in Seattle, they donated brand new ambulances and stuff. So this hotel, I mean, this hotel, this hospital is, it's no joke. It's really, really, really state of the art, you know? Wow. That's awesome. But I told him, I think I was doing that for 15, 20 years with him, and I told him, you're like a teenager now.

I'm going to back off and you need to pay your own now because you can't depend on me. It's like when you tell your kids, man, you know, you need to pay your own rent and you pay the water. You need to put, you know, so I says, so I'm back enough, you know. You in the town, the mayor, here's the thing, man. You got it. You take care of it. Because now I want to do one in Tijuana, in Juarez, and, you know, I don't know if you ever heard of three squares.

It's a place where they have food. This lady Julie married, before she was going to die of cancer. And before she said, before I die, I want to create big, jymongous buildings like Walmart. Tall. Fill them up with food and feed the kids in Las Vegas. She did that with two buildings. She never died. And we learned so much from her.

Now, if you just take your time and go to three squares and you see what's happening with this building and you see people donating, you know, the thing about Las Vegas is that the thing about Las Vegas, there's a lot of people that I call weapons of mass compassion people who wake up to be of service to humanity. You don't hear about them.

You only hear about the clubs and the streets, but there's bona fide people who I call weapons of mass compassion people who they roll out their sleeves, they cook, they pack, they do all kinds of things, and they're always helping in healing, correcting, and curing humanity's mentality. How did you know that that that was your particular calling,

at least for you donating that center? Like, why not a school? Why not, you know, housing development? or whatever. Like what was it about doing a, not a hospital, but like a center? What was it about that that you felt that's what the town needed? Thank you for asking that. I grew up with Tito Puente and Baby King, believing that I could be somewhere in the middle. But in the meantime, I was checking out Dolores Berta, Martha Luther King, Mother Teresa. So I would say, well, I'm going to do this so I can do that. You know, so I'm going to play music. And with a,

the energy or money from that, I'm going to give it to $2,500,000,000 to Mr. Desmond Tutu to help the children with AIDS so they can have uniforms, so they can have shoes, you know, because if you don't have shoes and uniforms, you can't get into the classroom. So I donated, I did, we did a whole tour. I paid my taxes and I paid my band, and what was the rest of that, I gave it to Mr. Desmond Tutu clean, one check. You know, and I did it because I'm constantly like you and you and everybody here. I constantly being nudge inwardly, do this, follow that, you know. And so, but I said, but I don't want people to know that I'm doing this.

And they said, well, I know that you don't want people to know that you're giving $2,500 clean to $1,000222 to help with the kids and the AIDS and everything. But see, if people do find out a little bit, then it will inspire. other people to do in my pocket. I said, but I don't feel comfortable because it feels weird to do something and then it almost feels like, look at me, I'm doing no, and they said, he said, no man, it's not like that, you know,

trust this or something like. So that's why I did it like that, you know. I get it. I get it. Wow. Wow, that's beautiful to hear. Eventually, of course, I know that you moved to the United States. I'm assuming you moved to the Bay Area. How old were you when you

settled into California. I moved from Tijuana the first time in 1962, and mom and I were not getting along. We weren't getting along for a long time, you know, because she was very domineering, very set, like I said, a lot of conviction. And I'm not like, we're all respect to my sisters and brothers. I'm not that kind of guy that goes like that, you know?

So I wanted to go back to where I was working. I was working in Tijuana in a nightclub called, the convoy. We would play for an hour, and for another hour, it would be women stripping. They were like strippers. That's still not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So to me, I was like, oh, this is like better than circle the Soleil or whatever. You know, this is, yeah, I play an hour, you know, green onions and, you know, something's got a haul of it, and played Edith James and Booker T and all kinds of people. Wow.

And for an hour, I get to see ladies, you know, strip and do the thing because they have to feed the kids because they have to do what they have to do, you know? Right. But I was like, yeah, this, this, go to junior high school in America. Oh, no. Heck no. I don't want to go to junior high school. I want to stay in this joint and, and grow up watching this thing over here. Wait, junior high school, Carlos?

You were like, whoa, okay. Oh, he's born in 47, so now he's 15. Yeah, 15. And they put, plus they put me back because I couldn't speak English. only words that I knew was stick him up. And there's the animation from the most peaceful man on the planet. There's our intro. Stick him up.

Because I saw Roy Rogers, some TV show, Roy Rogers, and somebody said, stick him out. They pull a guy and he's like, whoa. I said, oh, stick him up. Okay. You know, so that was one of the first words in English that I learned. Okay. Who taught you how to play? Was guitar your first weapon of choice?

No, it was the violin, but I didn't like the way it smell, the way it sound, or the way it felt. You know, because you got to get really close. The resin. Yeah, all that. You know, I was like, and my dad, I didn't want to, you know, make him angry. So I finally told him, you know, I don't want to play this thing, man.

And so my mom took me to the center of town in Tijuana, and there was a band called the teacher. J's. And there was this dude named Javier Batis, who had a big conk like Little Richard, big khaki pants, you know, big, big, almost like bell-bottom pants. And he was a component of three people. I mean, and he had it down. He was like, B.B. King, Little Richard and Ray Charles. That's all he knew, and he played it really, really good. So when I went to the center of town with my mom, because she grabbed me by the hand, you're coming with me. And I was like, I said, you haven't played a while because you're dead in San Francisco. And,

And I don't want what he taught you for you to lose it. So come with me. So she pulled me by the hand, man. She took me to see this guy. And they're playing. You know, they're playing. And the way he hit those notes, he had that twang, like BB King, Frater King, Albrecht.

He had that twang thing. And I was like, hmm. It was like seeing a flying saucer man or a first white whale or something. And I was like, oh, my God. Right there, I knew that's the only thing. I was going to be right there because of watching a guy play. I mean, you could, when he, when he played the guitar and the notes resonated against the cars and the trees and the church across the street, man, I was like, oh, my God.

The sound of the guitar, man, is very, you know, Jimmy Hendricks, Stevie Ray, you know, Albert King, everybody, you know, it's very, it's very, it seduces your senses. It's, uh, Lauren Hill says, man, one note from you, it assaulted all my senses. That's what she said. So that's what guitar players do. Because when you bend the note, see, when you bend the note and you know how to bend it, man, that's when people hair stand up. You know, and even miles, I see, I have a lot of pictures of miles with guitars, you know, because he wanted to get into the guitar and he wanted to know how to get inside that note.

There's something very, very spiritual and sensual. Spiritual and sensual about the guitar, man. It's just, you know. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%,

I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong.

Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TW. on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George

Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Carlos, if I may, can you just tell us about the moment or the moments leading up in the morning after when you received this first guitar? Because it's got to be a special moment.

Well, yeah, it was special. Thank you for asking that. My dad found out from my mom that I did want. quit music, but I want a guitar. So he sent me a big, fat guitar, sort of like West Montgomery, you know. And it had pickups, but I was so naive. I changed the strings, and I put nylon strings. Because I didn't, you know.

And I said, well, man, I can get a sound from this. And they said, no, you need to put it, you know, so I changed the strings again. Then I got in it, man. When I got in it, people were telling me, you shouldn't play bass, man, because I started with the bass after that. You play too many damn notes to play the bass.

You play the guitar. I said, okay. So, you know, it was, it was a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's all been a revelation, man, being in this planet and learning how to articulate first electric guitar and then all a tunegy and African music, you know, because, because once you get into the drums, like I said, I love drums so much, man, I marry a drummer, the drummer. The drummer. B drummer.

The drummer for me, you know, that is the closest to Tony Williams alive, you know, because, you know, she had much, you know. Anyway, so that's a beautiful combination, you know, the guitar, Chiro Puente, Olatunji with BB King, man, that's a badass combination. Next thing you know, next thing you know, everybody has Kongas and Timbales, man. And they say, you know, like the Rolling Stones got Congus and Timbales, Slalai's got Congus and Timbales, Miles got Congus. Why? Something happened at Woodstock.

Okay. Because of what? Because it worked. Because they said that it works. See, guitar and Congus make women dance differently. You know? The hippies ladies, you know, they're dancing like they're catching butterflies like this, you know. But when you play,

that is the standard white girl dance. I never once thought of it as catching butterflies, but you did it. But then you play at Wahira, you know, which is like Charanga, Wajira, Rebarretto, Tito Puente with Bibi King.

Don, don, do, do, do, do de, do de, da, da, da, da. Look at it. Oh, sorry.

Women just go, oh, okay. You know, hey, hey. Wow. You know it instantly, if you get the women to dance to it, then it works. Okay. I had questions, Carlos, about two particular players and their influence on your playing

and just you guys' personal relationship, my Vishnu, John McLaughlin, and also Peter Green. What can you say about you guys work together? Well, thank you for asking that. You know, I knew about John from a bitch's brood, but somebody told me in between, I was playing at the Fillmore, and a brother who was taken care of like a ballet for BB King, he had a day off, and he says, man, you're coming with me.

I says, where are we going? He says, we're going to go to Slugs. What's that? It says, it's a club in Harlow. And I said, who's playing? It says, Tony Williams' trio, John McLaughlin, Larry Young, and Tony Williams. And that plays was small, but they were loud. Right.

They were so loud. The ego period? This is before it. Or lifetime. Okay. Emergency. Emergency. Emergency.

Yeah, yeah. And when I first heard him play, again, it was. It's a different kind of revelation because you're going from John Lee Hooker, Lightning Hopkins, Jimmy Reed, BB King, Freddie King. You're going to a cat like John McLaughlin who's playing a combination of Django Reinhart with Ravi Shankar with West Montgomery. And he's burning, burning with this dexterity, him and Tony Williams. I was like, oh my God. You know, I didn't know people could actually play like this. Here's the word.

I didn't know people who, I didn't know people could articulate this kind of language that is beyond superlatives. Was Tony, you know, it's weird, one of the very first American, not American root shows, but one of the very first root shows, once we. got our record deal. Tony Williams was also at the gig, and I'm really kicking myself that I didn't watch him. Like, I didn't really start to worship him, even though I knew him well, or knew of his work well. But, you know, unfortunately, like, I guess when people pass away, then you really, you start to hear their music differently. And even, like, this, the next book that I wrote, Like chapter one is actually dedicated to,

there's a Tony Williams song called There Comes to Time. Yeah. Yeah. That, yeah, that's how I met my original manager. My manager used to be like a DJ at a jazz station. And I don't know. Like I was really transfixed when I heard that song. And like it just always stuck with me.

But I always wanted to know, like, since you got to witness prime Tony Williams drum, was he his symbol playing to me and I get you know that that Cindy is also like a branch of the Tony Williams tree was he in person during his prime was he as violently loud as a drummer as I imagine that he was because my only testament besides what I see on YouTube

but you know a lot of that stuff is more like 80s Tony Williams but there's really not much of the late 60s early 70s 20s Tony Williams' archives available. But what was it, what was his power like? Like, he was just one of the loudest drummers I ever heard. I mean, I heard Cream and their peak. I heard Jimmy Hendricks at his peak.

I heard Led Seppelin at their peak. I have never heard anybody play like Tony Williams, John McLaughlin, and Larry Young. Not one of them come close to dynamics and just pure energy. that this guys have. Plus, the mentality, it's not even mentality, because it's not mental music. It's, you know, you can't put super relatives

on Tony Williams or John Coltrane because there's just no words in this planet to describe the unknown. But you've seen it, you're hearing it, and you cannot believe it. Let me give you an example. I zoomed in on his hi-hat on his foot, and he was left, right, like, did-d-d-di-di-di, like that.

But at the speed of a hummingbird's wing, and he locks it. So he's locked. It's not going anywhere. Now he can do whatever he wants to with his right hand and then with the left hand and with his foot drop, drop bombs. But I never seen anybody lock a high head at the speed of the hummingbird's wings and locked with total confidence and assurance.

I looked at him and I was like, oh my God. And this is like, my brain just was like, I feel like my brain is getting like stretch marks, you know, from whom. That's the best band I have ever seen in my entire existence. And I love Jimmy. I love cream. I love Let Separate. I love a lot of them. I have never heard anybody with that trio like that.

I believe you. I believe you. You know, we, a couple of episodes back. We had Raphael Sadiq on our show. And, you know, to hear him describe the Bay Area and what it meant to grow up in the Bay Area at the time when musicianship was at its absolute peak, you know, with San Francisco, like with the Summer of Love coming into play and to bloom, and especially like in Oakland with fun. brewing over there. How is that? Well, for him, he was just describing it what it was like to be young to, you know, casually be a 10-year-old and see Larry Graham or to casually see you or, you know, all these musicians that are in the area. What was it, I mean, because you're one of the pioneers

in the Bay Area. What was it about that particular place on the map? that just made musicianship on a whole another level. Like, can you just, I mean, I'm assuming by, you know, by at least the mid-60s, you got your chops up. So can you just describe pre-record deal, pre-Santana First record? Like, what is the modus operandi of a musician in, say, 1967,

1968 in the Bay Area. Like, is it Jam Sessions galore? Is it like who your peers at the time? Round zero for consciousness revolution. Besides LSD, Pioti, Mesklin, ayahuasca,

you have Charles Lloyd, you have John Handy, you have Robbie Shankar, you have Otis Redding, you have James Brown. All of it is in one particular like a nebula, you know, and then you have BB King, you have Albury King, and then you have who else? You have Lee Morgan, you know. You can go any club, man, and hear this, this, you know,

George Benson, this cat, this before George Benson was singing, you know, and he was tearing the guitar up in a whole other kind of way. So for me, when people say, what are you going to do tonight? I says, man, it's hard to decide. I'm going to go to the both-hand club. and see Miles Davis, or I'm going to go see Mongo Santo Maria or West Montgomery or the Grateful Dead or Slice Stone, you know, and it's all like right there, you know. And so what makes it more delicious is that you can actually understand what they're doing. You know, it's not out of the realm of your understanding capabilities. And it's like if you keep looking at it and hearing it from your inner ear, you can see what they're doing.

You know, it's just a matter of like going home and articulating, getting close to the facility. Because you have to have a certain kind of facility to articulate, you know, I mean, the difference between, I can tell them why no, the difference between Lee Morgan or Freddie Herbert or Miles or Claire Terry. You know, just trumpets alone. I know the guitar players. I know the drummers, you know? And so for me, growing up in San Francisco was like the ultimate university of being connected to it all.

And at the same time, develop your own individuality, uniqueness, and authenticity. You know, because anybody would tell you, man, don't play my shit. Hey, we'll get your own, man. You know, don't come over here playing somebody else's shit, man.

You know, and they gave you that look, you know, like, hey, man, you know, they do that in Africa also. They might have 50 drummers, and each one has to play their own thing. They give you a dirty look like, man, don't play my thing. Look at your own thing, you know. And it was like that in San Francisco. You have to find, you know, the difference between slides, Steppenwolf and Creedons Clearwater, you know, Tina Turner, Albert Collins, Albert King, you know.

And for me, I was like, I couldn't get enough, man. I could hardly, I didn't even want to go to sleep because I just want to soak it all up. I said, man, I must have died because this is heaven, heaven. You know, if you want to just check out John Lee Hooker and the doors and Coltrane, a lap Supreme, it's the same thing. Right. True. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the

biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crime. crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Wait, can I do a follow up to that question, Steve? Yeah, I'll allow it. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Here's the thing, though, because your debut album, and I want to know how you got your record deal, but your debut album also arrives at the same time right in the same month as Woodstock, which clearly that's the event that will define that generation. but what I also noticed was that right after Woodstock it's kind of the turn of a new decade

and things got darker you know a lot of cynicism a lot of darkness especially in the music of Sly and you know I'm conflicted on there's a ride going on you know because yes it's it's the first funk record

and I can't deny something that literally puts food on my table to this day. But I also know that that album to me is almost like slide falling on his sword, if you will, like his personal demons also coming to light. But I also feel like with the exception of a choice view, you seem to be the only person from the Woodstock, the class of Woodstock that still stayed in a spiritual lane. Like, you didn't get dark. You didn't get cynical.

You know, I don't know what was happening in your personal life at the time. But can you explain why when everyone else, at the turn of 69, 70, 71, when they all went to kind of a darker creative place that you. didn't venture there all that much. Like your music and even though like of course like by the fourth or fifth album you sort of slid away

from I guess what Clive would have loved you to keep churning out the hits and whatnot to the level of the first two records but you know you didn't go dark and can you explain why

or what was happening at least at that time that just caused everyone to go to just a darker cynical place with their creativity? Thank you for asking that. You know, most of it comes from my mother saying to me, Eso no is para ti, which means that is not for you. That's not for you. You know, the cocaine, cocaine shooting up.

That is that, Eso no is for thee. That is not for you. And she said it so loud and so engraved in my thing. So the other thing is that I want to just, pause for a second and tell you, I want to offer you my deepest gratitude for bringing out the black woodstock from Harlem.

Because, man, I just signed this summer and I was like, damn, I got all these questions to ask you, man. Like, you have the whole thing from Sonny Sharak? I want the whole answer. So many people have asked about that. I am. You're the second very famous guitar player

that wants to hear that. You and Pat Mathini can go down on Sadi Shahraq band all day. It was amazing. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to do, I'm connected with Dave Snyder, which is his keyboard player. And I made a promise to create a jubilation. Okay.

That's the name of the CD. Now, I'm going to have all the guitar players that I love and each one's going to pick a song from. Wow. Yeah. I already decided you're going to be my shaman. So, yes, I'll share that with you, something I've never seen. Had you heard of that concert in real time? Like, had you heard of what was going on in Harlem?

Blackwood stop. Yeah. Well, it's not called the Blackwood stop. We don't do that. I know. Sorry. You know what I mean. Yes.

Okay. I'm sorry. What do you call it? Summer, Summer of Soul. Summer of Soul. I mean, the folks that lived there called the concert at that park.

What's the park again, Amir? Marcus Garvey. Marcus Garvey Park, yeah. Okay. I know about that. Yeah, yeah. So did you know about it in real time?

No, no. I mean, I heard it floating around because the person who told me about this before anybody was Greg and Rico, because he knew it existed. You know how to get a whole of it, you know. And so those are the two things that I want. Actually, I need a lot because to answer your question again about not succumbing to the predictable victim, pathetic, predictable mentality of being too high to be. play, which is a contradiction, because when you play, you get high. You know, so that means that you're doing something chemically that you shouldn't be doing because now you're putting your light, your spirit, and your soul to the side, and your ego is saying, hey, man, I got this. And meantime, you don't sound so good or look so good or smell so good. You know? So what I did is like, I pay attention to the staple sing.

because I hang around with them in Pop Staples, and I hang around, you know, with Jamalck. So basically, I join in a West Point type of spiritual discipline path with Shreachimoy. And that kept me from self-destruction because, you know, here's the thing before we move out. There is such a thing as self-deception and self-discovery. Okay, talk about it. So self-deception is this.

Self-discovery is like, I'm going to open my heart and let God in the universe, like Art Blakey said it. Here's our Blakey, from the creator through us for you. That's for me. That was hired than heroin, cocaine or any other substance like that, man. from the creator directly through me for you. And once I heard about that one, then you're not going to bamboozle Santana into thinking less than my light, my spirit, and my soul.

So no, no weed, no ayahuasca, no. I'm about to say, yeah, it sounds like self-deception is cocaine, but self-discovery is shrooms. There we go. That's what I was wondering. I would like to also make clear that, yeah, I think with ayahuasca and we, like, I don't, I'd never consider those drugs.

It's plant medicine. More than, you know, maybe the FDA does, but no, no, you're right about that. They don't want us enlightened. I'm with it. I mean, I was just, yeah, just curious. I'm, I'm in the baby station. Do you often do like sound baths or rituals or those sort of things,

like sound, spiritual sound journeys or those sort of things, like with a spiritual community or anything? the closest thing that I do now to any of that is get a heartfelt hug from Cindy and stay there yeah wow what else do you need I would take one of those that was there you go yeah not to be creepy but your wife is amazing

go ahead Steve oh okay well I really want I really want to get to like Kirk's questions but but I'll ask one of my two questions now since we're sort of in this time period. I wanted to know if you could tell our listeners about Luis Gaska. You were on an album in 72 with him. He's a trumpet player. The album's call for those who chant.

And I just wanted to put a little light on that name if you could tell us about him. Well, thank you for asking that, man. When the band broke up, you know, there was a period, a specific night when I said to a certain musicians. I need so-and-so to be out of the band because they're supplying the rest of the band with heroin and cocaine. And we sound like crap, we don't practice.

And this is not the band that I want to be in. Our platinum albums are collecting dust and we're not moving forward. So I want this guy and that guy to be out of the band or I won't be on the plane. And they said, well, then it's not your band. You won't be on the plane. I said, okay.

So they left. without me, you know. And so what I did to console myself, I went to the Basis Street West in Broadway, San Francisco, hung out with Luis Gaskah, Joe Henderson, George Cables, and this drummer, a drummer who played Marshall. And they allow me to come in and sit in, man. I was like, they said, go ahead, San Antonio. You know, so when they were, do-de-do. I was like, oh, this is different. So I wasn't afraid to not be in Santana anymore because the whole world was embracing me to learn from Joe Henderson and Luis Gaska

and everybody else like that. Eddie Marshall, I think, is his name. Okay. And so God found a way for me not to feel sorry for myself or be you know, like tripping on, you know, what's going to happen to poor a mean. I don't think like that anyway, you know. So I just went to the clubs and started sitting in with people and they were so gracious enough to be patient, though I didn't know a lot of the changes, but I knew when to play

and when not to play. But even if it was your band, you were willing to leave an organization that had your namesake adds its name? Yeah, because at that time was more like a lot of bands. democratic, you know, until I realized, no, it has my name and I can't have somebody wearing a Santana jacket going to the wrong places in town doing the wrong thing. Because then there's come back on you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so anyway, to me, all that stuff was a blessing in disguise, man. Everything that has happened to me, like the so-called career suicide, which I'd done three

or four times, you know. But at the meantime, I'm hanging around with Herbie, you know, or Wayne, or I hang around with Alice Coltrane or Larry Young. So every time I commit career suicide, I'm learning from the master's masters. And so, hey, man, this is just la creme de la creme, you know, hanging around with them. You've got to tell us about your Alice Coltrane encounter and the first time you met her because it must have been spiritual at the least. Okay, so I got this one that a lot of people are going to roll their eyes

because they're not going to believe it. But I don't care because I was there. So she invited me to stay in her house for a whole week and I was hanging around with the children because at that time they were children. And we would wake up like around 1.30 in the morning and we would meditate first and then she would play harp and then she'd play a piano

and then she would play the world is her piano. And then we meditate again. And when we were meditating, they got really, really deep and quivered. quiet and all of a sudden, I swear to you, I see John Coltrane coming right out me, one of many times, but this one's coming right up me and he's got a snow cone with three flavors of ice cream, right? And this is all inwardly. And so she's just next to me and she goes, go ahead, try one. How did she knew what was inside my meditation?

She goes, go ahead, go ahead, try one. So I licked it, and she goes, that's a B-flat, diminish seven. Try another one. So I licked it again. Man, I was like, oh, my God, I'm in Alice Coltrane, and Coltrane's here offering me a snow cone with three flavors of ice cream. And each flavor is a guitar. I mean, they're coarse, you know?

Were they a specific color? Did it correspond to color? Yeah, they were like, Yellow, green, and orange. And what was B flat diminished? Do you remember? B flat diminished was at that time, at least, but that particular night was the yellow one.

And it takes the silver of the amount. Okay, so you believe in a synesthesia. This is a clear place of synesthesia. Absolutely. No, I believe, look, I believe, I was going to say, You know, oftentimes when you have this level, when you're at this, this level of this particular plane, a lot of inexplicable things start happening to you that average mere mortals would just think like, oh, that didn't happen or whatever. But, you know, it's, no, I absolutely believe that human beings are,

regular human beings are just very limited and they're three-dimensional. Yeah, but in your higher thought, I don't think you're supposed to think of people like that. though, are you? Well, no, no, I know they're mortals, mere humans, mere... Well, I'm trying to paraphrase it because we're not a visual show, so I can't, you know. But it's like a house. It's like a house. You got the first floor, second floor, you know, the roof and you have the basement, you know.

So we're not putting anybody down. It's just a building. Right. So many people want it. They just don't know how to get it. So it's fortunate when you can find it. Kirk, did you want to ask something? There's plenty.

I realize we don't have. A minute of time. And I want to talk about some gear, too, and that side of things. But before I get to that, I have to say, Mr. Santana, I got to meet you one time. It was on, I think, on a, where's, where's that guitar shop? Madhumanov guitars. No Maddhumanov guitars? Yeah, you used to be there.

On West Fourth Street, was it? In the village, yeah. In the village. I was with my son. and you walked out of a store, you like walked into us. And I was like, Carlos, and you said, hello. And you looked at my son and you said, hey, Angel, one day, you're going to heal the world. Whoa.

One battle wrap at a time. Wow. The night before this encounter, we were watching a movie called Soul to Soul, ironically. Oh, my mother was just talking about this. Yes. And I said to my. my son, it's the guy from the movie. So I'm wondering in Soul to Soul, was that your first trip to Africa?

And can you speak on that experience, whether it was your first time or not? Yes. To go to Africa in Ghana, Akra, Ghana, and the things that I learned, yeah, Akra, Ghana, and to be in a place where I get to learn about the shaman who was so proficient, townly powerful that the mayor would move out of the way. And the police department would get out of the way. I mean, everybody would get out of the way when this guy would come to the streets, you know? And Wilson Pickett would say, don't tell me anything about it.

I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to hear that stuff, you know, because he didn't want to be put into an X kind of thing, you know, because he was afraid of like, he was afraid. He was locked. Yes. And he was locked. You know, so Willie Baldwin was playing with us because our regular Timbalt players, Chepito had an aneurysm.

So we took Willie Bobo with us. And Willie Bobo had Collieres, you know, to protect himself from, you know, the other, the Buddha from Africa. So he thought. And so, so he got really, really sick. My brother, Willie Bobo. And so Michael Carabella said, hey, man, you need to go to his room. Like, I said, man, it's two o'clock in the morning.

He said, yeah, but I've been here all night. It's your turn, man. Just grab some towels and wet him and put her in his head. because he's sweating a lot, just help him out. So I go over there to his room, and the guy knocks on the door, it's a regular doctor, doctor. And he looks just like Aussie Davis, right? And I'm like, okay, and he goes, coming in.

And so I'm looking at Willie, and how are you doing, man? He's just, oh, man, you know, and so there's another knock on the door, and there's the boo-doo man, the main boo-du man, the guy who put him, he put the thing on him. And he looks at me right in the door, and I had an interoper. conversation like I did with Alice Coltrane. So I'm having this conversation with this shaman. And I said, I know who you are and I know what you got. But if you want to deal with me, you have to go through this. And I had a t-shirt with Jesus in it. I said, so if you can kick his

ass, I'm yours. Otherwise, you have to leave me alone. Just like that. He looked him in my eyes and went right around me and left me alone. Wow. You know, so I knew that we had an understanding, you know. It's all about energy. And he knew that I wasn't intimidated because I'm holding on to sweet baby Jesus, you know. And I have a confidence, again, that sweet baby Jesus is going to, like, let this cat know, he's okay, leave him alone.

You know, he's not a threat or anything like that. Just leave him alone. And so being in Africa and learning how to articulate, you know, the rhythm of, check this out. So we're invited to a dinner where everybody's there, the mayor, everybody. And then they said, will you guys please take off your hats and stand up? Because we're going to do the national anthem. Here comes the national anthem. National anthem.

which is a common answer. Men go, Uri Ure, women go, O'e Ure, O'i Ure, O'rera, together. O'da-Diro,

and I said, wait a minute, that's one was Santa Maria's national anthem and cultural and play to go, no. We were playing this song before Santa Maria was ever in this planet. What? Yeah, that's right.

And Ghana is... I'm gonna. That's a national welcome in Ghana. Oh, my God. Wow. I'm so joke. Oh, that's sorry. Teach me more. I'm gonna get there one.

Are you serious? Yeah, man. It's your life, man. We always did it first. We always, always. That's the foundation. Oh, man. Well, as a drummer too,

as a drummer boss, you should be there. Mm-hmm. The time when you start to come in to the world's consciousness is kind of simultaneous with when loud electric guitar starts to come into our consciousness and souped up amps and stuff like that. There's a rumor that mess of boogies are called messa boogies because you tried out an amp from a cat and you're like, man, this thing boogies. And now they call it boogies.

Is that true? Yeah. I'll tell you the other half of it. The other half it was like, the other half it was like, look, man, I need to bring your amplifier back. I want to know if you can do something for me. Well, what kind of air was it? It's a Princeton souped up Princeton before it was a booge.

It's a souped up Princeton before it was a boogie. He says, what can I do for you, man? I said, I need for you to put another value in control. he goes what put it out of the violin control it was what for so I can turn this one to 10 and this one to one

and I can sustain and not drive people crazy in the hotel oh see Kirk this is why you're on this episode because I would have never known to ask that question

copy wow and who is the cat you took it to I know I should know this because I work with Boogie His name is Randy. Randy. Randy Smith. Randall Smith.

That's right. Sorry, Randall, if you hear this. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more

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Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush

didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wait, something just hit me right now. And if I don't say it, I'll forget to ask it. But it just hit me. Wow, I can't believe I'm about to ask this question. I believe it is your albums that the world got to know the artwork of Marty Clairewayne.

Yeah. The Martin Claire wine. Yeah. Like the infamous, you know, he did Bitch's Brew. He did at least three covers for Herbie Hancock. He did Last Days in Time for Earth, When and Fire. Had a very distinctive part collage.

I mean, again, for our listeners out there, just look up Bitches Brew. Look up Abraxas. I mean, I believe a Braxas. I'm about to say a Bragis was the one, right? A Braxas is, I think, his first cover. How did you discover Marty Clarewine and how did he wind up just designing for practically eight other artists on Columbia? And did you feel some sort of way when everyone wanted to use his artwork after you used him first? To be with precision and specificity, it was Miles Davis with Bitches Brew.

That came out. The acumen in 69. I was coming out in 1970. Now, the Abraxas album, the Black Naked Lady, that's Mary and the angel with the conga, that's Gabriel. So that's the annunciation that she's going to get pregnant with Jesus.

So the whole cover of Abraxas is actually called the Annunciation, because Gabriel, with the conga between his legs, the beautiful angel, is telling Mary, you know, you're either about, or you're pregnant with Jesus. That's what that thing is about. Wow. Okay. Do you have the, were you, do you own the original piece?

I almost bought it, but I did, I tell you what I did buy in perpetuity. I bought the con, the angel with the conga. Uh-huh. Every time you see that angel with the conga between his legs, that one is mine. I bought that one from him in perpetuity. Because that's what Santiana is. As soon as you see that angel with the, the cold guy, you know, that's, you know, right.

That's the logo. That's Santana logo. Okay. Yeah. I think at Electric Lady Studios, they didn't realize that they had Stevie Wonder's artwork for music of my mind, at least the inside that Marty put together. They found it in the closet, like after sitting in there for like 45 years and they finally like framed it and hung it up. But yeah. So, I mean, what was it, what was it about his work that spoke to you? Acid. There you go. All right. Since you brought it up, what is it about acid? And do you recommend it? And how should it, how should it be partaken? I would assume in spiritual circumstances or what visions do you see?

I've never asked a person what it's it like to take acid. It's a very... But I'm willing to learn. It's a very personal experience, a very personal experience, and I do recommend it under supervision. You know, so they have, believe it or not, they actually have people's tours that they go to South America in the jungles of Peru and Brazil,

and they spend a weekend or a week. and they do the ayahuasca thing. And, you know, it's a form of getting rid of a bunch of personalities that you invested emotionally that is not you. Oh, tell me, oh, I'm in. You know, because your friends see you this way and then your teacher see you that way, and then your mom see you this way, you know.

But who really, here's the question. The main question about LSD, who really are you when you stand butt naked in front of your own light? Wow. Now, I can do this not just, I can do this with peyote or ayahuasca or acid, or is there one, all they do different. Yeah. Thank you. Levels to. Thank you.

You know, all of those things are just like portals, really. Portals. Thank you. It's just fears and portals that you walk into. And if you're a nice person, you're going to have a great. great time. If you're in, eh, eh, ho, don't try it because you, you know, some people

when you do it, they make the mistake of getting under the sheets because they don't like what they're seeing, you know? And that makes it worse. Because now you've got to deal with you. I've heard this. You know? So, I've heard this. I had

so much fun. I thought I was a kid man in Disneyland. And I had free tickets for all the rights. And, you know, because I wasn't afraid and I'm still not afraid. and you're a nice person. And I'm a nice person. Can I ask my second?

Yeah, sure. The question, speaking of what you were just saying with regards to taking acid, you played on a song called Pretty As You Feel with Jefferson Airplane in 1971 and played with Yorma Kalkin on that song. Can you tell us anything you remember about that session or about playing with Yorma? And do you still talk to Yorma? We haven't seen it. each other in a while.

The last time we did something was a thing called Blues for Salvador with Jerry Garcia and Wayne Schorter and Bonnie Ray. No, I haven't seen him. You know, it was, that was like a beautiful way for me to be accepted because Santana wasn't totally accepted, you know, in the San Francisco scene because we were rough.

You know, we're from the Mission District, and we're rough. We're not necessarily like groovy, far out, whatever, man, hippie. You know, we were like, no, man, we don't, you know. So it was different until I started smoking weed and taking the LSD. Then I said, oh, yeah, now I know what they're talking about. And let's go to Montemapaias and hang out with Quicksilver and the Grateful Dead and Yorma and Jack Cassidy, you know.

But in the beginning, it was kind of like a rival conflict kind of thing. And basically, because of the mentality of Marin County versus the Mission District in San Francisco, which is like the Jets and the sharks. Oh. Do you remember that session for that song? I think I smoked a lot of weed that day, so I don't know if I remember it that. You remember everything else, though.

Man, right, you were a hop to stoness. Listen, goals. I want to ask you, and this is a little further in the timeline, what do you recall about the song, whatever happens with Michael Jackson, that you played on. Oh, that is so sweet, man. That was so sweet.

They told me, hey, Michael, because at that time, after Supernatural, everybody was calling, you know, Prince and Michael, would everybody want to find out if we could interact, you know, in exchange? And, you know, being a fan of both, Prince and Michael Jackson, I mean, to the max, you know, who isn't, you know?

And, I mean, I got a, like a bunch of stories to share with Prince, but I won't do it right now. But the one with Michael Jackson, I received this phone call, and it was from his last arranger producer. Right now I forget his name. He was the main guy. John McLean? John McLean?

No, I don't think it was. That's producer. Jeremy Lubbock? Was Jeremy Lubbock? No, getting closer. What's his name from Philly? My guy. I'm

Jerkins Jerkins And he called They sent me the track And then I played on it And I was like Wow You know

I'm just to honor You know That I'm able to Be with Michael Jackson And with Prince We did a lot of things live But we never recorded it And same thing with Miles

You know So I feel very validated and celebrated because while it took him a long, long, long, long, long time for the Grammys to acknowledge me and anything, and they finally give it to me with supernatural like, you know,

11 nominations and I won the same, and I won nine Grammys like my goal. You do. You know? And what was really crazy is like a Supreme LSD. The last one is by, Bob Dylan and Lauren Hill giving me the last one, you know?

And here's Harry Balafonte and Wayne Shorter. And that's all I can see, man. I just see him Wayne's shoulder and Harry Balafonte and Bob Dylan. And I remember saying, I am so grateful. Thank you for this beautiful night. Long live John Coltrane and John Lee Hook. You know, because that's my foundation. John Lee is like, he calls me and he says,

Carlos. I says, yes, John. He says, I loves God and I loves people. You know, and he called me one time for his birthday. And he says, I said, hello? Hey, man. Call me sometime. I says, how are you doing, John? He says, man, when I hear your voice, It's like eating a great big piece of chocolate cake.

Oh my God. And I have it. I recorded it, you know, because see, I'm just, I'm showing out right now because this is my validation, man. From John Coltrane to Johnny Hooker. That's what Santana is about, you know, with a lot of drums. For you, okay, so I was going to say when, Okay, we're going all over the timeline now. This might as well just be rapid fire.

Rapid fire. Let's go. So the thing is that, okay, so in 85, when Prince said, you know, like, everyone keeps compared to me to Hendricks, but that's basically because we have the same skin color, but they really listened to my work. They would clearly say that I'm from, you know, the DNA of Santana, which is true. but this is what I want to know, especially with your work with both Lauren and Wycliffe. And the thing is, is that, you know, when you're on Zion, and the thing is, like, and again, I know that Marachi playing, you know, that's your roots and whatnot, playing.

playing acoustic guitar. However, I'm almost, are you worried that people aren't really grasping what your artistry is? Because the thing is, is that, and I'm not going into typecasting, but if I'm getting Santana on my record, I would have probably had you do something that's closer to the guitar solo that's at the end of X Factor. X Factor, yeah. Which sounds- Yo, I thought that was Santana. When I heard that he was on the album, I thought that was him at the X Factor. And the thing is because of, you know, this is like CD streaming time. You know, you don't live with liner notes the way that you used to when it was cassettes and LPs.

So I just always assumed that you were an X Factor. And then one day when I, like, just sat and read her liner notes, I'm like, wait a minute. Did she get him play acoustic guitar? because like, oh, Mexican, Santana, let me give him to play acoustic. And I was like, I wonder if she knows that his sound was really the sound of the song that came before that. And also with the product BGB and with Wyclef, the same thing.

Do you sometimes... Really about to make me look at this album. What's the song in me? What's the song? I forget. What? For on Lloyd's album? Yeah.

Oh, Lauren was Zion. It's Zion. But the one we're talking about is X factor. Yeah. Right. Right. So what I'm just saying is that, you know, I was trying to over, I was over, as with everything, I overanalyzed it. And I was like, well, did they take him out of his normal comfort zone?

Hmm. Because they didn't want him to sound like Carlos Santana or did they just not know? Because I was just wondering like, why would you have Carlos Santana? just play acoustic guitar when he really would light up. Let me just start all over again. What was the creative process like when you did Lauren and when you worked with Wycliffe on your solo record and when you did miseducation of Lauren Hill?

Well, thank you for all that. Let me explain to you how I arrived at getting the sound. Okay. So it was a picnic in San Jose, like around the summer. and I went there and there was a park and in the park in the afternoon they were playing like a picnic they were playing

mariachi music they were playing Afro-Cuban music which is like charanga chach chas chas-ch-ch-ch-danson merengue from Dominican Republican and Guajas like Ray Barreto and then you have a rock and roll band

you know like a bunch of surfers so I'm hearing all music at the same time when I got out of the car. I'm hearing three different sounds, and I went, oh, okay. So it's like, it's just like grabbing all of it and making one sound. And so now when people, they're still trying to define me sometimes, and I just tell it very politely, well, I am a multi-dimensional motherfucker. That's a good answer.

That part. Okay. That's something up for you. So it was by design. It was by design. Okay. Yeah. Or a Mexie,

Mexie C-A-N, with capital C-A-N. Mexican. Yes. But the reason I say that, man, is because I have the confidence after being with Tony and Kirby and Wayne and Miles

and they invited me into their sanctum, you know, and all of them, B.B. King, Freddie King, Aubur King, you know. So, it has given me a confidence that all I need to do now is just compliment whatever gets in front of me because I'm not going to let myself or anybody so encapsulate me or put me, define me or redefine me because let's go back to Bruce Lee. Let's just be water.

You know? Okay. So Carlos Santana has never played a lick that Carlos Santana ain't want to play and ain't playing out himself. No, no, no, no, no. There's a lot of artists that, you know, I will respect, but if they would call me, I would say, I'm kind of busy and thank you right now, but my plate is full and I got to do time with my family. And the only criteria that I wouldn't play with someone is if I don't feel it. If I don't feel it, I'm not going to play. I was asking just from the standpoint of, okay, for example, I'm probably guilty of the same thing myself, not because I told him to do this, but because this is what we chose to use. But the one time that we worked with Prince on a record,

Prince only played keyboards, which, you know, it's almost like, wow, you got Prince to play on an album that you produced, and he didn't touch the guitar once. You got him to play, like you got him to play tambourine,

like that sort of thing. And I just, I just, I don't know. I just felt like once I found out that, You weren't playing in the signature style that I know you for. I was just wondering why they didn't use that to the hilt on those particular records. But granted, yes, you're water and you can't be typecast and there's nothing that you don't do that's not you.

So I respect that. You know, the whole thing about this interview, you can just summarize it in two words. Hit me. impeccable integrity. That's it. You know, because everybody that I love, they have that sound of impeccable integrity. And with that sound,

you get a standing ovation from God, the angels and the devil, the devils of that, if there is such a thing. I don't believe in Satan, Lucifer, and the devil. You know, I believe in EGO. I believe that ego creates, you know, the boogeyman and Wolfman and Dracula.

But since I'm in a spiritual adult, that stuff don't bother me. You know, I never seen The Exorcism, and I don't want to, because I don't want to assault my subtle nerves watching stupid movies that people sell, to sell you fear. There's enough people selling you fear

in every channel already, you know? So I go, when I, when I'm thirsty, you know, when I'm thirsty, I go to cold. train immediately and miles on the corner you know on the corner is like man it's you know it's what's that's

New York City on the course right now oh wait there's one question I do have to ask you about your 70s catalog one of my favorite record of yours is Bor Borletta yeah

now for that period of your life what is what is the creative process that leads to the crafting of those songs? Is it just you guys jamming? Like, is it dumb bitches brew style where you just play whatever is in your heart

and then you edit later? Like, I don't, I'm not certain who does your editing or whatever. Like, whoever your Tio is. Like, is it, is it pre-plan or songs pre-written or are you guys just jamming, like, spontaneously? We just jamming spontaneously. We didn't have the knife here. So we never knew how to edit back then.

You know, I take pride in saying most of the stuff that I ever done is a one take. If I got to, if I got to go to the second or third take, let's go to another song. You know? So the one take allows me to feel confident that I call Indugu to play drums. And Stanley Clark and Armando Pedasa and Ayrto, you know, because I can read how people look at you. man. If they don't want to be in the room and they don't feel like

they want to play with me, then they won't. But I can see when somebody says, well, this is going to be interesting. Let's see what Santana want to go. You know, do, do, do, do, do, do de, do de, do de, do de, do they. Bam.

So I'm thinking, Farrell Sanders. You know, I'm thinking the things that I love, man, Farrell Sanders, weather report, you know. And so when we hit it, we just gave him a little sketch of of a clue and then we hit it.

Okay, so that said, how are you able to miraculously at least engage in the patience factor with your respective label bosses, with

Clive Davis, and with Walter Yetnikoff, in terms of sticking to your artistic vision, artistic vision, and not giving into what I'm clear that every time you play them, this is the final album where they're telling you, please, just one.

Just work with this one songwriter, so you can have a top 10 hit. Please, just one more Oya Kumava, please. One, you know, evil ways or whatever. Like, how, because these albums are closer. It's closer to on the corner,

live evil, Bits is brew. Like, you're in that creative zone. So how are you able, to sustain that magic, at least for the two decades that you were with Sony, Columbia. Okay, with the exception of Clive and Bill Graham,

and Chris from the gentleman who produced Bob Marley. Right. Okay. So Chris Blackwell. Okay. With the obsession of few brothers like, that while people like Walter Yernakoff I don't know where he's at and like I don't care so what people like that I have I have an attitude that I say I'm gonna be

here long after you're gone okay because I see nine of you come and go I'm still here you know and so I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do and you can either and I went to this stuff with Donnie Iner and a bunch of a bunch of CEO and or whatever, you know? Right. Because I tell, and I tell them straight up, man, there's artists and con artists. And I know who I am.

And you know who you are. I don't have to say, let me do this because, no, I'm just saying, I'm going to do this. And if you don't like it, well, then I just be with another record company, you know? And you can talk to my lawyer and Bill Graham or whatever, you know. But you have to have a certain conviction determination. that you're bigger than the company.

Ooh. Damn. Y'all hear that? Dude, man, this might have to put Matthew Knowles in second place. I mean, I respect. This might be my all-time favorite interview. That's such an education in so many subjects. Thank you.

Hit it quick. I know I interrupt you. I'm sorry. I got a quick. No, no, no, please. Mr. Cesar, why the PRS? I feel like the Woodstock was the SG and the, the Gibson stuff and you're so defined by that sound of the PRS. Why is that? Because it stays in tune

and it sings really good. The SG. I wanted it to be a bigger answer than that, but if it's just that, that's cool. Okay. The SG neck, that's what I was saying that it was like playing an electric snake because it was like it was moving around like a snake when I was playing it. And you see me making ugly faces. I'm trying to make it stand still, you know, because the neck of the guitar is literally moving kind of like this. So it used to go out of tune a lot. And so I said, man, I need to have, one more time, I need to have confidence that my guitar is going to behave.

So I stopped playing the SGs because the neck wasn't conducive to be in tune as I wanted to. So I got the last poll, and after the last fall, I went to Yamaha, and after Yamaha, I went to Paul Rees Smith, came to me and very graciously said, hey man, I made this guitar. But right now, he belongs to the guitar player. He belongs to heart. You know, there's the group heart. But I'm going to send it to you for a week, and you can't have it.

You can just play it. And if you like it, then I'll make you one. And so I love people with conviction and determination. And I like that so much. I've been with him since 78, 79. How many axes do you own? Or is that just? I don't know.

It's in the gazillions. It's just in, no, no, no. Once it gets to like 50, I get rid of them and I, I donate him, you know, to feed people here in Las Vegas or to do this for schools,

like you were saying, you know, or hospitals or whatever. Because, uh, I don't want to pay insurance on something that I don't play. Oh.

Didn't think about it like that. Ah, damn. Now you're making me feel bad, man. Carlos. I'm still keeping my drum sets. How do you navigate with the culturally, with the African continent? It's so interesting because I'm wondering like with all the different sounds, all the different cultures, all the different countries.

And mind you, you're dealing with other cultures and stuff outside of the continent. But how do you navigate through finding and discovering sound in that huge continent? And have you navigated it fully? Do you feel like you have? Thank you for asking that. Yeah. It's my favorite subject in music, which is the drums. The drum is the best.

If you would, I swear to you, if we would just make it possible for the drums to be in the hood, the favela, the barrio, in the shantytowns, you know, you wouldn't need psychiatrists, therapists,

analysts, adilins, pips or drug dealers, you know, because once you play the drums, um, bittin king, and then you,

and then you, and then you, do-d-d-d-d-d-c, once you get into it, it's like, it's in your DNA, you remember that it's the language, the language of light, you know?

So I would remind you doing with Brother Quest a mission, you know, to bring the drums back to the hood. We close up the parks, you know, with fences, and we put police in there one way in, one way out, okay? And you get a ticket when you come in and you have a gun, you get a ticket, you know. They put the gun over. there and we'll give you a ticket, you know, and there's like about 50, 60 drums and bad ass

drummer players. And then you have one drummer, Congo player, dressed up like a police, you know, so they can feel comfortable. And he's playing his ass up, you know? And so after about an hour half that they're playing, you say to them, okay, man, if before you go, if you like the drum, you can take the drum, leave the gun. So we call it drums for guns. Okay. And once we have enough guns, we melt them and we turn them into this beautiful angel with a fro. You know? Well, wait a minute.

I'm going to. Wait, wait a beautiful angel with a fro. With a fro. Yes. In Congress. In Congress. You know. I do like that.

No, that's dope. You just had a download right now, man. Hey. It's in the world now. Drums for guns. I might. have to do it. That is amazing.

I might have to do that. That sounds like an initiative. Okay. It's an invitation, man, it's an invitation to do something that the police need to have, because once we get the drums and people, and we say, we go to the mayor and say, we need for you to allow the drums to be played from 11 in the afternoon. New York needs this bad. You know, and in certain parks where people can just, boom, bick.

all over the country Amir, think Philly. This is an issue right now in New York City because of gentrification a lot of spots in Brooklyn that, I mean, Kirk can attest it. He said go to the hood. Those parks that, you know,

that were known for their Sunday, Saturday, all-day drummathon. The Malcolm X parks, yes, they're gone. Has been stopped. Yes. Wait, in Prospect Park, they stopped that? Well, yeah. I think we still have our

a jump circle in prospect You have it but I'm seeing a lot of like You know The first instance of Karening Uh-huh Noise complaints of like That's happening all over the country It already happened in D.C.

They turned the park from Mountainex back to Meridian And it took the drummers out Why you asked a question before I got to ask my follow-up question with your guitar Is there a seminal guitar That you'll always keep Like your Woodstock guitar or Or your, are you sentimental with, with your children or it's just like, you know, what you get, you get. And then the rest just wind up in storage or you give them away.

I got two or three main quarterbacks. But I'm not attached emotionally to any of them. You too. Kirk does this too. Yeah. No, no. I don't let sentimentality or my ego tell me that I can't do it. without this. No, I can grab any guitar as long as it stays in tune and sound like me.

You know, just like you. You're going to sound like you and your drums. Cindy's going to sound like Cindy on her drums, although she prefers Gretsch only. I see. I see. Go ahead, Kirk. Today, just to get into the mood for tonight, it's been a long time, but I listen to Europa Earth's Cry Heaven's Smile Way back even before I met the roots

That was like A song that I would always go to For inspiration and still remains an inspiration to this day from me. I haven't heard a long time I listen to today on the subway And I kid you not, I'm sure it has a lot to do with things

In this life I'm growing through But I wept I wept openly on the subway listen to that song. So I thank you for that moment. And the other side of that, I want to know what guitar was that,

what amp, do you remember what combination was? This is the version that was for Moonflower. Okay. Do you remember? Yeah, it was the last fall that Neil Shaw and I got at the same time at Don Weir's music shop. That was kind of like the manis of San Francisco.

And I was playing to a twin, straight up, straight up to a twin, you know. But the song, the melody came from watching somebody next to me, she was going to have a bad assid trip, you know. And so she was starting to freak out and get, like, a little, not little, a lot, really, really paranoid. So I went, bam. Do do, do, do, do. Dude, the mushroom lady's coming to town. So it's a song about a mushroom lady, which is a shaman.

You know, I never put the lyrics on it, but my favorite one is Gatto Barbieri. Gatto Barberi played an incredible version of it. Oh, yeah. My mother told me, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I like his version better than yours. I said, thanks a lot, Mom. Wow.

Did you ever play with Gato? Yes, yes, we played in Chicago. We played a couple of times, man. He knew I love him. I adore him. I adore him and Farrell Sanders. They both got that sound, you know, that sound. But, hey, man, before I leave, I do well let you know that I'm going to invite you to,

please know that I'm going to do my best to put this thing, jubilation, an album for Santa Chirac only. you know, with the baddest guitar players out there. And I'm, and I feel really, really enthusiastic about it. You know, when you feel enthusiastic, you get a lot of energy. So I want to honor and celebrate my brother Sonny Sharrock because I totally adore him. Thank you, so long. Thank you.

Thank you for doing our show. Damn. You dropped a lot of knowledge on us. Yeah. It was, and you know, we're gobsmack because this is totally out of, the format that we've ever done this show. But thank you for letting us now like it.

Forever. You drop knowledge and now I want to drop us. Yes. At least some peyote, something. On the next, Quest Love Supreme, we all drop acid. Oh, yes. We're doing that.

Yes, I would love. Freeman and you'll be all right. Put John Cortez and Love Supreme and you'll be all right. I believe that. You can I just apologize to everybody because this should have happened a while ago. But Carlos,

true story, I saw you and Cindy and Cafe Gratitude down the street from my house, like about a year ago, and I froze, and I couldn't speak. So I'm glad everything happens for a reason. It's always supposed to be it up to Leo and Aaron for making this happen because it makes sure to happen a little sooner. But y'all look amazing together. It's just a beautiful rock and roll fucking just,

oh. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Quasloaf Supreme. Kirk, thank you. Kirk Douglas. Thank you. Kirk Douglas. Thank you, Kirk.

Pleasure was mine. Pletico. Captain, Kirk. happening. Thank you. We will see you on the next go round. Thank you. Yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLS and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. All right. Peace. What's Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs.

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