The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Dawnn Lewis

Episode Date: April 1, 2020

Dawnn Lewis has been busy with various roles on the big and small screen since her days as Jaleesa Vinson on the classic NBC sitcom A Different World.. She was busy *before* that show too. Hear her amazing story now on QLS! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Suprema, Suprema roll call. Suprema, Submina, Submina. Roll call, Suprema, Subima, Subma role call Suprema,

Supremma role call Quest Love Supreme Yeah The podcast champ Here with Doran Lewis Yeah I'm not asking about cramps Oh no,

Superima Supraima Supreme a roll call Supraima Supraima Supra Roca My name is sugar

Yeah Sweet as a muffin Yeah But I ain't puffing Round grandma mix stuffing No Supima Supraima

Role call Supremma Supremea roll call My name's boss Bill Yeah Keep keep keeping on Yeah Ain't no word

Such word is keeping Yeah There isn't this song Roll call Supima Supraima Superma Roll car

Suprema Suprema Subima Roll call My name is Dawn Yeah You can call me Jalisa You can call me Zama Just call me healthy

Right now Supremma Supra Supremma Rolecall Supremma Subramo Supreme Role And I'm flying your background vocals

Into every roll call we do from now You out did Charlie Wilson Q-tip Who else Try to go rogue on the Roll call atlips Ladies and gentlemen

Welcome to another Soon to be Class episode of QLS. I'm your host Questlove. With me today is the legendary Sugar Steve. Wow. Sugar. Hey. I upgraded you to Legendary Sugar Steve. Appreciate that. Yeah. I'm going to update my

resume right now, my bio, and put Legendary at the top. You're the legendary Sugar Steve. Thank you. You know there's songs for everything. Sugar. Already. Honey, honey, honey. Wait, do we have to pay for the Archies? Yeah, I don't know. Okay, anyone.

They're all gone. Oh, we got the boss of all. This is boss Bill. That's me? Yeah. There's a song for that too. Do as I sit. Will you marry me, Bill?

I'm only kidding, don't you know? Damn, I was thinking about it, too. All right, so do we have a theme for two negligent fathers who walk out on their kids? Oh, my gosh. Going out for cigarettes for a... Papa was rolling a stone. Yeah, unpaid Bill and Fonte out in the world smoking cigarettes. They promise they'd be back, but, you know, I don't know.

If it's quiet again If it's rather quiet around here It's because Laia Has also taken up smoking cigarettes And she went out and said she'll be back Momentarily So we'll trust that She'll be back next episode

Ladies and gentlemen Today as I said earlier It should be a rather amazing episode Our guest Is a Renaissance woman You know something We always hear the term

like a Renaissance man or whatever, but I'd rarely hear women described in the same sort of superlatives, if you will. I will say she's multifaceted, multi-talented, pretty much as a singer-songwriter, as an actress, be it whatever medium of stage, television movies, with a gazillion impressive credits to boot. I will personally say that

she's probably part of the most life-changing ensemble for me personally. Speaking of her work on a different world, as Jalisa Vincent, which I could say single-handedly inspired me, not even to go to college, but to be more intelligent. Like, that's how I can, you know, that's, and I'm saying in the most

a non- eloquent way possible because Steve is looking at me like, who are you right now? Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme, Dawn Lewis. Hey, everybody. Wow, I'm truly humbled. What a beautiful thing to say. Thank you so much. I wasn't looking at you funny. I'm taking it in.

Usually, no, you give me this look like. I'm wondering how you know the last name of the character on the show. Like usually you remember the first name. First name of a character. Everybody knows Jalisa Vincent. Jalisa. Jalisa Vincent Taylor. Oh, see, there you go.

Damn. That's... Okay. How many names did you have? No, what you have to understand is I know it's weird that having binged it in probably a 10-day period, the entire series. Wow. I can't... Yeah, I have time on my hands.

When? No, you know, when I get my hair braided? traveling, whatnot. In the jacuzzi? Yes. Oh, wow. That conjures up a whole other image. At the local Y, not in my house, because I can't afford one yet.

I will say that, yeah, the show was definitely way ahead of its time as far as like subject matter and things that are still relevant today and whatnot. But most importantly, I think that when it first came on, I mean, I don't think I had aspirations or even knew I was college material or that sort of thing. So seeing that on television, for me, probably more life-changing than seeing the Cosby show. And I know that you guys don't get enough praise for that. I appreciate that. That's my fan worship for the hour.

Thank you so much. I did watch a different world, but in reading up on it, it seems like that show is created almost specifically to talk about issues that weren't being talked about on the Cosby show? More so than just like a vehicle for Lisa Bonnet or a spinoff. It was. It was not so much comparatively to the Cosby show, but just what wasn't being talked about today. And what particularly young people were dealing with and faced with,

you know, when you go from the shelter of your parents' home, out into the real world, all of a sudden so many things start smacking you in the face that nobody necessarily taught you how to deal with. yet it's there in your life, in your relationships, all of it. And they wanted to keep it authentic to what we were dealing with at the time. And like you, I went to college and had just graduated just a couple of years before. But it wasn't until I started doing a different world that it clicked for me what an HBCU was.

Because we had those commercials of mind as a terrible thing to waste with a person of color. And you think, well, that makes sense. everybody should get an edge education. I didn't put two and two together that that was talking about a specific grouping of schools, of higher learning for people of color, for African-American. So even those of us who were in the show

were learning lessons while we were doing the show. And my name, I had never heard the name Jalisa before, but I was actually named after the wife of one of Mr. Cosby's best friends, Jalisa Hazard. And my last name, Vincent, was the last name, of one of our stage managers, Chuck Vinson. I always wondered about that. Yeah, Chuck, Chuck Vinsis.

He was naming people after everybody. Sinbad was named after Walt Hazard, Coach Walter Oakes. Yeah. Oh, okay. We were all named after somebody. After people and stuff. There's an episode where Ron mentions Thad Mumford by name. And he was like a producer on the show or something?

Thad was one of our executive producers first season, and Thad was one of the first, the pioneers of writing for traditionally white shows. When he wrote on MASH, he wrote, for several different shows and was the executive producer. Oh, really? We miss him and miss him dealing. Yeah, dad was a trailblazer. Okay.

So where were you, where were you born? Are you? Brooklyn. Bedstai. What part? Bestai. Bedstai. Okay.

Born and raised, bedstye. We moved six times, but always in Brooklyn. So went from Bedstay to Park Slope back to Bedstay to Crown Heights and ultimately flat push about five blocks from Brooklyn College. What was your Brooklyn experience? I always ask, whenever Brooklyn, Whenever Brooklynites come on the show and I ask, are they, you know, surprised at how it's transformed since then? Oh, yeah.

When I was coming up in Brooklyn, the neighbors I had now are not the neighbors I had then. Let's just put it that way. No, right now while I'm here working, I'm up in Harlem. And Harlem would have used to be either. I went to high school in Harlem. That was when music and art was up on 135th Street. and convent. So that was where I went, went to high school from the last stop, the junction in Brooklyn, all the way to 135th Street in Harlem. How many hours was that? That's about an hour

and 20 minutes for me to get to school every day. What time did you wake up? I don't even remember. I don't know if I was awake when I woke up. I just knew I got on the train. No school busing, no. No, I got on the number. Okay, they switched the numbers because the three and the four used to go to Flatbush, and the two and the five used to go to New Lots and Utica. So it took me like 14, 15 years to even be willing to ride the subway again once I moved to California. And I knew, I knew where I was going. Child those trains took me in all kind of wrong directions. I was like, what is happening right now? When did the two start going to Flatbush? When did that happen? But no. So yeah, about an hour or 20 minutes every day to get up to high

school. So that was when music and art and performing arts were in two separate buildings. Lansing. Music and art was where you did vocal music, progressive instrumentals like the jazz band, photographic and portrait arts, you know, visual arts. And performing arts was down in Times Square. And that was where you had traditional dance training. It was on, I think, around 46th Street or something like that. So is this the Fable LaGuardia School? It's LaGuardia School, a fame, fame. So about two years after my graduation class was when they put everybody in one building, and now that's the building that's in Lange's. Lincoln Center. Okay. So Brooklyn was very different. Humble, honest, grounded, you know, challenging. I was bullied a lot when I was a kid, but I was also popular. I was the, I was bullied

because I was popular, if that makes sense. So you never had the, I'm going to get my brother to fuck you? Oh, yeah, I did. And I have three of them. Are you the youngest? I'm the only girl. And I have three brothers. And yeah, they, they could torment me all they wanted, but no one could mess with their little, little sister. So you're the youngest of... No, I'm third. Okay. I'm third.

Two older and one younger who thinks he's older. Oh, man. I'm sorry. I called you Grandma McStuffins earlier. You're not sorry. You're not sorry. You're not sorry. So was it a creative household, a musical household?

I'm the only one. Really? I'm the only one. One of my older brothers ultimately got into music, and then he started a family, so he got a regular nine to five job. He was a paralegal. now he's in IT and now he recently retired. So now he plays bass in a in a trio whenever they feel like it on on week weekends and clubs and stuff. But my oldest brother grew to be a fireman. So he's a firefighter. Now he works as a fire marshal and head security for a building on Park Avenue. And my younger brother went into law. So he has his own law firm. And then there's me singing and dancing and stuff. Okay. Was it encouraged or was it just like a side?

It was encouraged because again, like I said, I had three brothers and my family is from South America. So very different traditional values of what is appropriate for a young girl to do and for a young boy to do. But at the same time, I wasn't allowed to do anything unless my brothers took me. Were you first generation born? I was first generation American citizen, yes. And your parents are Guyanese. Guyanese, South, South America, Guyana. So they came up and my mom one day I was seven, very tall, athletic, because I was playing handball.

That's what you did in Brooklyn. You played handball, stick ball, skellies. Skellies. Yeah. Skellies. In the street. You know what Skelly is? Skellies is a board.

It sounds like a sandwich or something. No. It's like street pool. It's street pool, but you play it with bottle tops and you pluck it. The amount of times I got in trouble for stealing milk caps. Yes. off my grandmom's milk. Throw a ball out or something trying to flip it.

Well, you would take the milk caps and then you go to the street. And fill it with wax or a quarter to give it some more weight. Okay. Yes. Yeah, I would go to the street. First, I would take her spoons, which is a no-no. Go out in the street, find a grease spot. And then dig for tar of the street and put it inside the caps.

Yes. And then we scrub the cap on sidewalks. So it can go smooth. Freeze it at night. And you just dream. You put in a freezer. And then you dream. So think of a milk cap with tar.

It's like a hockey puck. A home-gated hockey puck. This is why there's no black hockey players. They're all playing. Skelly. So what you do is you draw this big board, and there are numbers strategically placed around the board, and you shoot your cap from number to number in sequential order. Okay.

Wait, this is a very cultural difference here. My mom played hit the pennies. No marbles in Brooklyn. They kill small children. They swallow them and die. Okay. So no. Okay.

You couldn't afford marvels. I got it. Shots fired. Wow. Yes, you're right. I couldn't afford marvel. So you shoot them around the board. And the thing was, when it rained, that's when parents got really pissed because we had

parquet floors in our house. So we took that same chalk and would draw Skelly's boards on my mom's indoors. Indoors and on my mom's parquet floors, we would draw our skelly boards. And you survived? Well, I'm here. So I ran. I'm faster than my mama. She only caught me half of the time.

Can I tell you it is my dream? Oh, man. Just between 1978 and like 1981, like, I mean, me and my cousin would dream at night. Like, you know, ways to get the Sean Riley family, like, to knock their, they had the best caps ever. And you couldn't get the milk tops with the stickers. on them because then that would not give you traction. Yes.

Yo, man, it was an art to playing skelly. I've never seen you so passionate about sports before. Dude. It was fantastic. Between, well, speaking to South America, there's a you know, there's a tag tournament in South America. Yes.

Like, for real, like, think of those, like, what are those shows where, like, Ultimate Warrior, like that sort of thing? Oh, Ninja Warrior? Yeah, but they have it for tag. For tag. They're pretty, so. So imagine like a playground where literally like a guy's chasing you and you got to like jump over a monkey bar and you know there's like obstacles there. Like you might get your head knocked off.

So coming home from fifth grade, okay. I want that. Right, right. Exactly. I want that for Skelly. Like, ah, you just validate. Did you play stick ball too? All right.

So we played stick ball. That's where you shave half the ball. No, stick ball is where you take your mom's broomstick. Yeah. And you use it as a bat. Remember the pink spalding balls, the handballs. That was the ball that you would use and you would pop it. Or punch ball.

Because if you couldn't afford a stick, you would take the ball and punch it. You would take the ball and punch it. And you would run the bases. See, all right. We were very creative children. Thank you. We would take those. We didn't need expensive things like marbles.

I'll send you some marbles. I'll send you some marbles. So you would play with the, The pink ball, see, we would take a razor. And then, yeah, another. See, little children in my neighborhood weren't allowed to play with razors. Well, we would have, make it, we would cut it in half. Uh-huh.

In Philadelphia, you played stickball with half. I guess so you wouldn't break a window? Oh, we didn't care. We ain't care. Wow. So you would have to, you would throw half of a tennis ball or a half of a one of those pink bouncy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.

And then play stick ball. that way. Okay. Yeah. Damn, we can just make it a street. We ain't even getting the 1987. We're just going to talk about our street. You ever play Kingball? No, what's King? King Ball. King Ball is like, all right, if you have a sidewalk, it's sort of like you need four people

to play it, and each person gets a designated square of a sidewalk. think of like tennis with a basketball. So the goal is not to hit the boundary of the sidewalk. It's a long explanation. It sounds like it. I feel like I need to be eight years old to understand what you're talking about. It's a Philly thing. Okay, wait.

Okay. Two more favorite games as a kid. High water, low water. Did you play high water low water? I remember this. That sounds familiar. You use a rope. Yes.

Yes. And you lay it on the ground and you take your turn. stepping over. Then still after everybody goes, you raise it a little higher. And then you start and it becomes like the high jump and then on concrete, not safe. And then the other one... What's your version of this, Steve? Well, I was just, that just sounds like

the reverse of limbo. Limbo. Limbo, exactly. Exactly. Oh, I mean... Because your Caribbean roots are. And we had HR games too like, catch a girl, freak a girl. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? No. No. No. No. That's called something else. That's called something else now. That's called HR. That's a child molestation.

Now, all right, one more game. about hot peas and butter? I've heard this referred to in every rap song but never knew what hot peas and butter was. Hot peas and butter is you would take a belt and you would hide it somewhere, okay? And you were the person who was it in control of hiding it. Then everyone else had to go and try to find the belt. And so if people were anywhere near where you hit, you go hot, hot, hot, if they went away, cold, cold, cold. So you would yell after the belt was hit, hot peas and butter, come and get your supper.

and then people would go looking for it. And have ever... Yes, it did. Hopperies and butter. Come and get yourself. And then people would go run and looking for the belt. And whoever found the belt, you tried to keep it hidden. And then you would run and hit everybody with the belt.

Yeah, I wasn't playing that game in my neighborhood. I was not playing that game in my neighborhood. And then you had to run and not get hit with the belt. That don't sound fun. It was hilarious. That sounds like my childhood. worst way possible. It was hilarious.

Like me trying to hide a belt from somebody? I do that. I do that three weeks before every report card. So what do you, all right, so what do you? We don't play those games anymore. No. You're so multifaceted with your talent. What do you consider yourself as far, or at least at 14, 15, when you're developing your

talent. Are you a singer? Are you a poet? Are you an actress? Are you dancer? I was all of it, quite frankly. I was. I was singing. I started singing at four. I was lead singer in a band at 14. I had my about four or five poems published in a compilation book of young writers by the time I was 15. I was dancing on the stage of Carnegie Hall and Brooklyn Academy of music by the time I was nine. So I was all of that So I never considered that I had to choose What I believed in what the environment I was raised in Was that you had to maximize everything

It was called being a trip, triple threat You had to sing dance and act In order to be viable in the business And you asked me, was it encouraged You know, going back to how we got into childhood game Was my mother looked at me I was seven years old, really tall, really fit playing all these games with all these boys and everybody in the street,

she realized, you know what, I have to get my child out of the middle of all these boys and give her something that she can do on her own. And my mom had a really great friend, Mrs. Green, who had a daughter, who was about five, six years older than I was, who was dancing. So she took me to a dance recital at the Academy of Music. I said, Ma, I want to do that. She said, are you sure? I said, yes.

So she enrolled me in dance class. and I was riding the bus from my house, which was in on mid, where were we at that time? We were on Midwood Street in Crown Heights at that time. And I had to walk three blocks over to the bus on New York Avenue, get on the bus at a certain time, so I could ride to the next stop where this young lady would get on the bus with me. And we would ride down to Pacific Street and Saratoga to Miss Elaine Christian's dance studio. And I did that once a week. until I was 15 years old. Where's he laying Christian's dance studio?

It was on Pacific right near Saratoga. So at that young age, I was on the city bus going to and from dance classes. So that was kind of how that started for me was my mom wanted to encourage me to have my own thing that took me out of the middle of being around all those boys all of the time. Do you find, sorry, Amir, do you find that that whole way of thought is sort of gone where the triple threat thing? because it seems like so many of the people in the past who were in entertainment were triple threats. Yes. And is that still a prevalent way of looking at things?

You know, I don't know that it's a prevalent way of looking at things. What I have learned is that the way the business continues to evolve, the powers that be the them or the they are more comfortable putting you into a box. So I know a lot of people who you see starring on television as actors are really incredible singers or dancers. And you learn when they get the opportunity that they have all these other gifts. But because of the way the industry is now, they kind of say, well, if we want a dramatic lead, we need to hire this person. If we want to comedically, we need to hire this person. So you don't necessarily get to know what other people do. But no, I don't think it's a requirement like it used to be.

Yeah. I don't think so. Oh, okay. Oh, you Googling stuff. What in the world? No, only because your story is very similar to Prodigy Mom Deeps. I was trying to figure out whether or not that was his grandmother's dance studio. Oh, okay.

But it wasn't. No, no, no, it wasn't. Well, wait, I still don't know because now I almost feel like it is. Elling Christian? The story's too. Who used to be a big dancer at the Cotton Club. She danced with Bill Rob Robinson. and Bojangles.

I bet you any amount of money is the same person. You know, all of that. So that was her legacy, and she passed on us, and we were there all day on Saturday, doing jazz, tap, ballet, African dance. And on Saturday mornings, you could always count on at least two-thirds of the students running into the kitchen,

where the TV was to watch Soul Train. Uh-oh. There you go. You set to mirror off. Uh-oh, uh-oh. So that's the dance part. So how did you start with the singing and the acting parts. The singing I started at four. I just sang. I used to love musical movies. I still do music. And there were movies that would come on every year. Like the Wizard of Oz, March of the Wooden Soldiers. There was, you know, stormy weather. There were different movies that would come on. You could count on it at certain times of the year. So I would sing along. I knew all the songs. I knew all the dances. I knew all of it there in my living room. And my mom used to teach. She was a subsubstitute teacher at an elementary school, not for.

far from from the house. So after a kindergarten, I would go and sit at the school and away for my mom to be done before I could go home. And they were doing their spring concert pageant. And I asked if I could be in it. And all the teachers knew I could sing. I was young. I was cute. I was four going on five. And they said, yes, you can be in the concert. And I worked on the song, getting to know you from the king and I with hand gesture. No, about you. Exactly. You sang it better than I did. I was you were burning in my play. You were better in your play. I didn't shave my apple either. He put a sculling on my head. Hilarious.

But then we got to the concert, and I was amazing, I have to admit. I was phenomenal in the rehearsals. And I got on stage and saw all the people and stood on stage and froze. It's like, there are people here watching me. And I got the first few words out, and I stood there. And the teacher was below me trying to remind me to move my. So I painfully got through it. And then they said, okay, all right, great.

And then I sat down. And then I started crying and said, I can do it better. Please let me just sit down, little girl. Just sit, sit, sit down. And so I taught myself to never be that frightened again. That was the first and the last time I'd ever scared myself so much that I couldn't do what I was really desiring to do. There are photos. This is highly unusual because normally there's, I guess the good word is light encouragement.

The bad word is sort of like Joe Jackson-esque. Like there's always a drill sergeant. No. But this is highly unusual to hear that confidence coming from someone under the age of 10 that it isn't enforced from. No, my mom wasn't that. You're going to first nine hours. No, that was not my mom. My mom was like, just stay out of trouble, okay?

I got to go to work. Stay out of trouble. I got to go to work. And my brothers were like, yes, she's real cute. But we need her now to play handball. Don, we need you to run the fourth leg in the relay. So I was like, Dawn, okay, that's great. Get off your toe toe toe shoes and come on over here and run this race because this boy don't believe you can beat him.

And I got $5 on you. They're betting on you. I was pretty fast. Yeah, I ran track to. So you graduated high school. What age, what year? I was 16 when I graduated from high school. You got skipped?

I got skipped twice. Wow. I was in the first grade for about six months and went right to the second grade. And then I never went to eighth grade. I went from seventh grade to ninth grade. She's like the best of every artist we ever had. I don't know. She's Huey Lewis, prodigy from Mom Dee.

What else are you? So, yeah, so I graduated high school at 16. Like I said, going school up in Harlem and had already been singing in bands and clubs and such. And, you know, young and cute. But I knew I wanted to do this as a career. And I also knew I wanted to get out in New York. My mom and I had a really content.

relationship at the time. You know, she's from a different country with different values and understanding of how things are supposed to be done. And again, like I said, there were beliefs of what was appropriate for a girl and what was appropriate for a boy and boys rule in those South American cultures. So in her eyes, you should have been getting ready for a husband, get a housewife. You know, I never got that speech. I never got that speech.

Are they religious? Yeah, very. Okay. My family is a seventh day Adventist. Yikes. Wait a minute. This is not adding up. up.

Yeah, well, there you go. So there's more to the story. Wait. There's more to the, I am. You're supposed to be in church every day. There you go. No, well, we had devotions at home every day. My mom had us read the Bible, read scripture.

Yeah. Sing hymns when we could because, okay, see, you get into a whole other part of the story. The reality is, my going to dance class every Saturday was a real issue. Okay. For the family. It caused real problems. My mom, like I said, saw it as a way. to help save and encourage and empower me.

My family would tell my mom and tell me, even when I was small. The extended family. The extended family. Okay, okay. Not my brothers, not, you know, the truth is that you're sending this child straight to hell. By not having her in church, et cetera, et cetera, and sending her into the demons pit, this entertainment stuff is where the devil lives, et cetera, et cetera. How do you tell that to a seven-year-old child, but they managed?

along the way like I said my mom really reinforced in us that we have what we have by the grace of God and that it is a blessing and is not a curse I wouldn't be able to do

what I do if it wasn't a gift from God so look at it that way and please shut out the other noise and ultimately as we grew the family stopped saying certain things but you know you couldn't ignore or forget really

the rift that was caused and the pain that that was caused. But, you know, everybody grows. You learn, you love, you forgive, and you realize that there are good things that come out of whatever, as long as that's what your intent is. I was going to say, not even to harp on it,

but I was just like, that's why I was so amazed. I was like, wait a minute. I've never heard of a situation in which, especially with a black household, in which, like, religion or some sort of obstacle is sort of thrown in. your path of you finding your talent.

There were a few. Okay, that's that. Okay. So the guys in Take Six who we ultimately became really great friends, we used to be able to share those kinds of stories because they were Adventist also. What? You didn't know that. Yes.

The guys in Take Six were Adventists also. Well, that explains why they're so disciplined with their harm we. You know, so we were able to talk about that because our upbringing stories were very, very similar. But, you know, but now that we are where we are, we use our place. platform to inspire, empower, to be a blessing, at least you hope so, to others, you know, in a way that I may not have been received had I not taken this journey. You know what I mean?

To be so young as a graduate of high school, how hard was it to adjust to adult life? Do you know what? I got thrown into the deep end because I left New York and went to school down at the University of Miami in Miami at 16, and the university almost did not accept me. because I was so young. Yeah, but I had a grandmother who helped raise us. Actually, we lived with my grandmother for almost two years when we were younger. That's a whole other story, how we ended up there.

But to go to college, my mom couldn't afford to send me. My dad would have been able to help, but he chose not to. He's like, you're too young. You're going to go get pregnant and all of that. And I was like, but, you know, you haven't lived in our house since I was seven, man. So whatever. So I got another aunt to co-sign for a student loan for me, and I packed my stuff, and I left. And they turned around and go, wait, she really left.

I said, yeah, I told you, I was leaving. I'm going. So I went to college. So between student loans, college work study, was how I paid for school. And so I got there, and now I'm responsible to pay back a loan. I'm responsible to pay for my tuition, my room and board, as well as, you know, get through my classes. and as a performance major, I went as a voice-made major.

So in music and art, I was singing opera. So I was classically trained for many years. I played cello for almost seven years. You didn't have that on Google. Yeah, yeah, I was like to say. What did I miss? I played cello for about seven years and sang opera. So when I went to U of M, when they advised you for your major,

that was back in the day when you had cards and they would write in. You have to take this classes, and you'd get a signature from your department. head to authorize you to go and register for these classes. They wrote a bunch of classes I had already taken in high school, like music theory and sight singing and all those kinds of things. So I refused to take them again. So when I left her, look, don't judge me.

When I left her office. Did the EZA, like? Why? No, man, look, this is money. The college is expensive. Right. That's probably went for the EZA. Thank you.

No, colleges. But this is what I did. When I left her office, I said, thank you very much. And it wasn't my fault. She wrote it in pencil. I just happened to have an eraser in my bag. So, because I'm a good student. I came to school prepared.

So I took my eraser. Prepared, no. So I erased half of what she gave me, like music theory 101 and sight ran. I'm not taking that. I'm not taking that. And I wrote in dance classes. I wrote in acting classes. And I made my own curriculum.

I bought my pencil. Wow. And I made my own curriculum. And I was like, that's my own. more like it. Because that was what I was already custom to doing, going to dance class regularly. Undetected. No one's like,

hey, wait a minute. Well, not entirely. About two and a half months into school, I got called into the dean's office. Yeah, exactly. It was like, cling, cling. I got called to the dean's office and she said, okay, we were concerned about admitting

you in the first place and this is going to be your one and only warning. I said, what? We are about to send you home. I said, well, why? They said, you're not going to classes. We can't have that young lady. I said, well, of course I'm going to my classes. I'm going to my classes. I'm pulling a 4.0 GPA. I don't understand the problem. Well, you haven't been to this class, this class, this class, and this class. I'm not in that class. I'm in this class. I'm in this class. And say, well,

who told you to do that? Well, nobody told me to do it. It's my money. I'm going to take the class I want to take. My friend, Peter Pencil. I felt empowered at 16 years old. So she made me sit in the hallway. I like this. This is black entitled me. I've never heard before my wife. She is Huey Lewis. So she made me sit in the hallway for a minute and then call me back in the office and said, okay, young lady, you had no way of knowing this, but the school of music and the school of fine arts had been in conversations for like a couple of years about starting a new degree

program for people like you. So would you be interested in being the guinea pig for this new degree program? And I said, well, what would I have to do? She said, basically what you already doing? And I was like, oh. They had to respect it. And I said, well, okay, then, all right, so what happens now? Can I go?

She goes, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You need to prepare. You have four days to prepare for an audition. I said, audition for what? She said, so we can officially start this degree program. So I had to do a 45-minute jury for the entire faculty of the School of Music and the School of Fine Arts. I had to choreograph a dance.

I had to do a comedic and a dramatic monologue. I had to do arias in French. an Italian. I had to do a Broadway show tune. I had to do a jazz tune. There was one other thing. I can't remember what I had to do. Yeah, it took 45 minutes. How many days? One day. I had four days to prepare. Were they stacking just to be like, teach you to mess with my opinion? I don't know. I don't know, but what ended up resulting out of that was after the jury, they were now officially able to start this degree program. So I'm the founder and first graduate of the musical theater degree program at the University of Miami.

I hope they named it after you. No. No. Even after you? Even, and after a few years, they conveniently forget to mention that I had anything to do with it. Man. Let me tell you something. Every now and then it comes up or, you know, whatever.

But yeah, so that year, that's been going 30 plus years strong through the School of Music. They've graduated Tony winners, Grammy winners, Oscar winners. And in the last four or five years, they've transferred it from the School of Music. to the School of Fine Arts. Fine Arts is now has the degree pro program. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversation. with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girlfriends,

my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I would. wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was going to ask, in Brooklyn growing up. Yes. Were there any other notable Brooklynites that we would know now that you went to school with or like neighborhoods?

Our next door neighbor, Dwayne, well, we call them Dwayne because his first name was Ralph. Ended up being young Michael on Good Times. Ralph Carter. Ralph Carter. Carter. Wow. Ralph Carter. That's amazing.

Yep. I saw him three months ago. Yeah. Yeah. Three months ago. He was our next, next-door neighbor. Really? Other than that, no.

Not in my neighborhood. Not while I was there. So the neighborhood kids weren't even like, like-minded and... We were playing stickball and skellies. They didn't care. They didn't care. Oh, but you know what? I recently found out a year or two ago, I was doing This Is Us, like one of the

my favorite shows on television. And when I got there, I was so excited to be, I was happy to be there. And the cast was like, oh, my God, look who's on our show. Can you take pictures with us? And I'm thinking like, because I was going to have to take pictures with you guys. So we're taking pictures. And Susan Kalecki Watson, who plays the sister, the wife, on the show, Rambor's wife.

Isn't she fantastic? She hangs around because she was actually finished before I was called in to work. So she hung around to meet me. So we're taking selfies. and we're exchanging numbers, so we can send each other the pictures that we take. And we sit in my trailer, like talking for a half an hour. So she finally leaves.

I get called to the set. And I call a couple of friends of mine. They say, and I told them what the day was like. And they said, Susan's my great friend. And Dulae Hill was like, that's my great friend, et cetera, et cetera. And so I called her back. I said, I didn't know you knew Dulae. And she says, yes, he's a great friend.

And I said, okay, great. She calls me back two minutes later. She says, okay, look, I'm not trying to be weird or anything. but I sent the picture that we took to my family, and my brother texted me back and said, you know that's our cousin, right? What? I said, I'm sorry, what?

She said, yes. She said, do you have an aunt so-and-so? I said, I don't know. I've never heard that name before. She said, well, your aunt so-and-so married my uncle, so-and-so, and they live in Trinidad, and this and that. What? What?

That in the world. So I called my mom. Ma'am. Do we have an aunt-so? Yes, that's my first cousin. She married a man from Trin-Sown-Trenada. She never come back again, but this is nothing, this and nothing, this and that. So I call her back and said, oh, my gosh, we're like second cousins.

And it's hilarious. And we keep talking. Come to find out that she's from Brooklyn, grew up within a mile of where I grew up in Brooklyn and still has family in a place there now. Yeah. That's crazy. And also, you just answered another question for me. I always. What's that?

No, you had a very convincing island accent that you tried on a different world once. and now Sheila. I was like, yo, she's really good. I didn't realize that, okay. Because that's where my family's from. I see now. I didn't know that at the time.

Yes. So as I mentioned, I was first generation of America. My mom was the oldest of eight. So one at a time, she sponsored his siblings and her parents to come up to the state. So now when all of our cousins,

when all of the cousins get together, all of a sudden all of us have accents. Your accents? Oh, man. All of a sudden. All of us have accents and we're talking like our parents and such. It's really very, very funny. I see.

So by at least by 20, did you have, like, focus? Okay, I want to be a singer. Yeah, I was already doing it. But, I mean, it's like you did everything at once. I'm trying to figure out what has the edge. What has the 51 to 49% edge? Oh, probably music. Singing.

More than anything. Yeah, singing and writing more than anything. because that's what I was booking jobs as. So what was your first, well, usually on the show I ask about your first, well, first of all, who's your hero, your idol, your, as far as your craft is concerned, who do you look up to? Wow, I actually had a few. Okay.

I actually had a few. Judy Garland was one early on. It was amazing to me the power and passion in her voice. And when I would watch her movies, Again, remember, I used to watch a lot of old movies, like take me to St. Louis and The Wizard of Oz and all that kind of stuff. And we weren't in a lot of those movies. We often had little small segments. So Lena Horn was a big influence to me.

The Nicholas Brothers were a huge influence to me as I got older. It was people like Gladys Knight and Stevie Wonder, Elton John. Do you remember the first record you ever purchased? No. I don't. I remember the first ones, one of the first ones that, my brothers purchased that I used to like to play all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They bought them. I just played them. It was the Rolling Stones. And I remember it was going, time is on my side. Yes, it is. I had no idea what they were saying, but it was just a funky line to me.

So your brothers were into the stones. They were into the stones and Smokey Robinson. I remember those two being the first records that I would play a lot. And Smokey's record that they had was, If there's a smile on my face, It's only that Trying to fool up hardly But when it comes down

The tear tears of a clam Yeah So yeah Those those songs And songs like Grazing in the grass A blast Maybe can you dig it

All those kinds of things You never knew what they're real I could dig it digger digger Do you digger digger digger digger Do you remember your first concert The one that I botched Yeah And

No no no no I mean Thank you for reminding me As an observer Like a moment of I want to do that, like your first concert? My very first concert, no. I remember my very first Broadway show.

It was The Wiz, and it was Stephanie Mills. And by the time she got to be a lion, I was a puddle. She was absolutely phenomenal. I couldn't believe all of this sound and all of this talent as a dancer, as an actress, was coming out of this little tiny person. And I looked at my grandmother, and I was like, that's what I want to do that. I want to do that. And quite frankly, you know, over the years, some of your idols become your friends and your colleagues, which to me just kind of really blows my mind.

The fact that when I met Gladys Knight and Lena Horn, they knew my name. Right. You know, Lena, I just did their crying. And people, there's pictures of her. Was she on the show when you were on the show? I remember when she was on the show. She did a guest spot. But I met her a few years before she got to do it.

It was at the opening night of fences. and everybody was crowding her, wanting to take her picture, wanting an autograph, and I stood there, like, waiting my turn, like, frozen. And she looked and said, everybody, wait, stop, excuse me, excuse me, you, come here. And I walked over to her, and she grabbed me by the face and said, baby, you want that show, aren't you? I said, the show, and she says, that show, she says, you all are doing such a beautiful thing. Your name is Dawn, right? And tears just started coming down my face.

And she said, you keep doing what you were doing. I'm so proud of you. And I really couldn't even speak. And fortunately somebody got a photo of us standing there with just like huge grin on my face. And yeah. That's crazy because you never think that they know you're alive or anything. Why would she? But it's like you, people, her, people like her just inspired me to do what it is I do now.

And when you get to know them and learn what they survive through and what they over over, over, over, overcame and what mattered to them and how they used their voice and they did it with grace and with power and with determination. It really, I could not have asked for better examples like her and Gladys was like my auntie now and Natalie Cole and Nancy Wilson and Stevie as well and to teach you how to do this thing with grace and with appreciation because it could really take you in a whole other space if you're not careful. You start to think it's all about you. Welcome back to the Sugar Steve's show. So Steve, when you first met me,

did you go back to New York after you graduated? Yeah, you know, it was my habit that going back and going, like I said, I was bullied a lot in elementary school. And my teachers were just such blessings and encouragement to me that when I graduated from elementary school, and I got to give a shout out to Barbara Ames and Karen Fogler two of the most amazing teachers anyone could ever have.

They still come to everything I do today to this day since elementary school since first grade. And Barbara Ames was actually one of the teachers, Barbara and Karen were teachers of Lynn Van Well Miranda as well. And he credits both of them as well

as depositing into his life to inspire him to do what he does. So all of you teachers out there, mad love, mad love, mad love. I know situations are tends, or can be tense in schools these days, but I so appreciate you. Much love for all that you do for inspiring and educating us and caring for us beyond, beyond. So anyway, so when I graduated and went to junior high, I would come back to elementary school

just to visit them and say hi. I would do Christmas concerts in the faculty lounge. And then I would talk to the kids and say, I used to sit right there in this class and don't be a bully. And if anything happens to you, tell your teacher because they really want to help. and they go, okay, okay, what's junior high school like? Okay, great. Then I went to high school. I'm going to go back to my junior high in elementary school, and this became my habit.

When I went to college, I came back. That was my habit. Then after college, now I'm releasing records and doing shows off and on Broadway. Then I book a TV show. Now I'm in California. So when I get an opportunity, I come back home, and so it was my habit. I went back to my school. I went back to music and art.

The difference was I used to do it because it made me feel good and stay connected and grounded. This time I walked in the lobby of the school and say, oh my God, it's Julisa. And kids came from everywhere and they swarmed me in the lobby. They had to get security in the police to escort me to the principal's office.

Then they made an announcement, we need you to please get out of the hallways, go back to your class. Ms. Lewis will come and see you, but you need to go back to your classes. So they had an extended day of school that day. And I literally went to every single close. and answered questions

because in a place like music and art, I'm living the dream that everybody in that school has. So that's what made a mental shift for me that I actually had something to offer that it wasn't just about me but that I could hopefully answer some questions and be a support or an encouragement to somebody else.

See, you've achieved something that I just recently got to get a taste of because early in my career, like they would have me come and speak to schools or whatever but I would get like questions like you over there yeah so do you know like real famous people do you know Andre 3,000 yeah I did do you know Eric about do yeah I produced her first record you did what and literally so it's like ah kids are so cruel I hate it I hate it until until my My school, well, first of all, I had to raise money for them.

Like, I gave them a whole grip. I raised money for them. Okay. And then, like, they threw, like, me and Tarika, you know, Roots Day or whatever. And then I felt, like, semi-validated, like, oh, welcome back, but it came out of price. But I always, that whole, like, go back to school and speak to the students. Yes. They love you.

And, like, kids, like, no, they just want to know if I know Little Wayne. Like all the questions are Hilarious. Well, I just got reconnected with a group of U of M students recently, literally as yesterday. On Monday, the U of M, there's the seniors from the drama department were up here doing a performance, a showcase, you know, for I guess casting directors and et cetera, because they were about to go

into the world and want to do this professionally. So I got invited to go to the showcase. So I went, and I've gone back to the UACA couple of times over the years and done master classes and things like that. So I went and saw it. So I was asking while they were in New York, if they were going to go see any shows. And they said, well, you know, we're going to try.

But I learned ultimately that the kids had to buy their own tickets for whatever Broadway show they wanted to see. And we all know these tickets are not inexpensive. They are not. So I got together with our company manager. And since I got into this motivational empowerment thing, I've been doing it now for, what, 40 years? When I learned it was called motivational speaker.

But about four years ago, I started my own nonprofit organization, the Annew Day Foundation. A new day. Dawn. See, Tadda. I see what you did. I actually brought materials for you. Thank you. So that you can see. I need motivational speaking.

There you go. So that's what our foundation does. We do programs all year round for teen boys, teen girls. Sometimes we do events with them together. annually we have a financial literacy and technology conference. That's about a whole day, seven hours long. We give out scholarships and new computers. Well, what we did on behalf of the foundation this time was we bought tickets for all of the seniors to come and see Tina yesterday.

Nice. So they came and saw Tina and then after the show, I met with them and we had kind of a talk back for about an hour and a half where I was telling them about the journey and answering questions, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, that's so cool. Incident, by the way, that was probably one of the best surprises I had. I mean, I was taking my mother to see Tina just for, like, Christmas. Yes. But I didn't bother to even, like, look at the play to be able to see if there's anybody I knew or whatnot.

And you came out. And it was such a slow, like, wait a minute. Like, it was a great thing to see you on stage doing that. Very much. Wow, man. I want to get to your professional career, but I know that, you know, you may, music in New York before you started acting and

I know that you've had to interact it with I want to know what 80s what pounding the pavement play the theme already she was there no no no I'm not asking about Latin court it's past her time

but I'm saying that what was pursuing a music career in the first half the 80s in New York like. You know what? It was tricky. It was real tricky. You know, we have the Me Too movement

and all that stuff going on now and you hear all kinds of things. Yeah, I know I'm so afraid that you found that. You bastard. You have... Where did you find it? I have my resource. Yeah, he's the government. What we are referring to is Bill has

in his hot little hands a copy of my very first single. And it's an LP, and it was on Dalmatian Records, an independent right record label, and the song was called Funky Thing, T-H-A-N-G. Did you name it? Funky Thing?

Yeah, I wrote it. No, no, no, I don't mean Funky Thing. I'm talking about Dalmatian Records. No, that was the name of the right-record-lay label. I was actually, okay, oh gosh. So you got to get down with it. Come on. Y'all don't know nothing about this.

And first-name bass is just Dawn. Just Dawn. Come on. WNN Recognize D-A-W-W-N D-A-W-N-N-2-N I know but I like to say double-in

Right Colin would mess that up already Come on So who produced this Two guys Kenny and Charlie Charlie Ernst

Kenny Pollock and Charlie Ernst Kenny I went to college with And the story behind this Is that we were called in to play for a jazz violinist. It was his session and he was having trouble setting up his violin,

EQing it, etc. So Kenny and Charlie just went into this groove and they just started playing and I just started singing. All of that every single word was freestyle. Oh wow. It was just me singing. So you had mere seconds to record. We were just

singing. I was just singing. Making up lyrics as I was flowing and there we went. And when the violin this was finally ready, the engineer said, before we start, I want y'all to come in here in the booth. And we're like, okay? He said, I want you to listen to something. And he pushed play.

And that was what you heard. And we were like, what? And we were in the studio, yeah, that's fly. That's funky. That's funky. And he signed me right there. So we went back and then actually recorded. That never happened. You're like the walking

reshanification of stepping out on faith. Well, praise God. It was, it was It was great, and it was so much fun. I mean, I was just saying it. I didn't know what I was singing. We were just going. How old were you at that point?

This was 84, so I was, what, 23? Yeah. So were you pursuing a record deal? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would do the rounds with my demo tapes and performing at different showcases, like for Capitol Records and CBS, etc. And charted, this song charted on Billboard at 20.

Mr. Nelson, Nelson George. Yeah. At Billboard magazine, we came in at 20. There was another song that I did called From the Bottom Up. And I was a little, I was a little feisty, young lady. And you were not going to find it because I tried to find it. I texted my brother. I texted my brother because my brother played bass on it.

And I was like, dude, do you have a copy of that song? And he hasn't responded. So I know I do. Bill's going to find it. But it's back on my computer and in my dad. collection. He'll have it. Trust me.

Bill will have it next week. But from the bottom up, I sang at the Apollo for amateur night. And one amateur night that we had to come back the next week as a special guest for amateur night. And from the bottom up was another song I sang when Shalimar was looking for someone to replace Jody Watley. And they had a competition at Leviticus. And I was an office temp in the World Trade Center.

at the time. And I heard it on WBLS, that they were having a competition at Leviticus. So I called my job. I said, you're going to have to get a temp for the temp because I ain't coming today. And they knew what I wanted to aspire to. And they said, Dawn, go and go on and get them. Go and do you do your best. So I went. And we were at Leviticus. I had my cassette, my little track in my hand, played it from the bottom up. And I sang that. And ultimately, long story short, that was when I met Howard Hewitt and Mickey Free. And we have been friends. since. I won for New York. It was like an early version of Star Search. So women from all around the country, from L.A., Chicago, Atlanta, we all met in L.A. at Circus, Circus.

And we had the competition there. And we performed in Delisa Davies. Yeah, Delisa. Was noted as the winner. And the audience went wild like, no, New York, New York, New York. So Dick Griffey says, okay, no, no, calm down, come down. We're going to. We're going to start a new girl group. Dick Griffey? Oh, I'm sorry. Why? Why?

Wait, where's my noise? I'm sorry. I meant Dick Griffey. Anyway. Uh-uh, no. Trust me. The stories we've heard. We could do a whole Dick Griffey compilation.

And that was sold our records. So they said, no, we're going to start a new girl group with the girl from New York, the girl from Texas and the girl from, I want to say, Chicago. Right. And later we learned. So we said, that's all right. I got my own deal. have to be part of someone else's deal.

Right. And we started calling the label, crickets, crickets. That's when you learned that it was just a publicity stunt. They were never going to do it. So, yeah, no, that was what I wanted to do. Was be a recording artist or star on Broadway, all of that. So TV was the one thing I was not pursuing. During that time period, I know this is the time for, like, Leroy Burgess or Kashif or

any of those. Yes. Kashif is a friend. Luther. I got to know. I knew everybody in his band. I wanted to be a Luther girl so bad. Brenda White, who would always sing the bottom,

was taking a leave before, I forget what the reason was, but she's like, Dawn, Luther loves you. They're having auditions. You should come and audition. So it was me. Brenda was there, Lisa Fisher, Paulette was there, and Luther was there.

And so we're singing, and I knew all the choreography. Stop! Stop to love. Don't go on the road. He said, man, I was crushing it. And then it was done. Luther came, put his arm around me and says, baby, you know, I love you, right? I said, yeah. He said, but I need a little more finesse and a little less soul train.

I was like, mortified, mortified, and a month later, I booked a different world. So I was like, bye. Luther girl, bye. And then once I booked the show, he says, you know you owe me money, right? I said, why? He said, because if I had hired you, you wouldn't have been able to do that show. So thank you very much. You're welcome.

So he's cool people So a different world How does this wind up in your lap? I don't know that it winds up in my lap Or I chased it down Oh really? Yeah I was doing the national tour of a Broadway show Called the Tap Dance Kid

With one of my idols Harold Nicholas of the Nicholas Brothers And Duley Hill Who was 10 at the time Who's now grown to be this Incredible man and talented actor So Dule was in Alfonso's role Yes he was our kid

Yes, well, Alfonso was on Broadway. Sevion stayed in New York on Broadway. Dule came with us out on the road. So there was a whole little... Duley's a... He never told me that. He's an amazing, amazing, amazing tap dancer. All right, Dule.

Let me get you on this. He really is. He's phenomenal tap dancer. So we were all tap and sing and dancing. So I had a principal role in that show. Well, the people who cast that show, it was called Hughes Moss casting. Julie Hughes and Barry Moss? There you go.

There you go. They also cast the Cosby show. So while we were on the road, I heard they were going to be doing a spinoff of the Cosby show. So I started calling the office to ask if I could audition. And they were like, no, we want everyone to be Lisa's age. I said, well, everybody can't be a freshman. Somebody got to be a sophomore or a junior. And we're only just like two, three years apart in age.

So begging, begging, begging, okay, the tour ends. I'm still begging. And they say, no, dawn, no. So I begged for like three months. Like, okay, fine. And now that we're off the road, I'm sending out my headshot and resumes. Okay, I've been doing a Broadway show, this show, that. I should be able to get an agent, crickets.

No one returned a call. No, nothing, nothing. Out of the blue one day, Hughes Moss calls me back and says, okay, are you still interested in auditioning? Can you come in tomorrow? It's like, yeah, absolutely. An hour after they call me, the musical director for the Cosby Show. Stu? Stu Gardner.

Yeah. He calls me and says, I got your number off of this cassette. It was one of my demo tapes of my singing and songwriting that a friend of mine, Robin Downs, had given him like a year before. So he says, would you be interested in working with me on the theme song for this new show? And I said, okay, yeah, sure, what is it? So he told me this is what the concept is. Totally unconnected. He said, this is the concept of the show.

Lee Lisa Bonnet is going off to college. We want the song to say something along the lines of, you know, experiencing life. The show is called Stepping Up to Step Out. That was the original title? That was the original title. Okay. And we're going to, this was on a Wednesday, and we're going to be in the studio on Friday recording it. I said, okay, so do you want to meet tomorrow, you know, to hear what I come up?

This is, no, if you're the person that wrote these things and if you're singing, you can do what I need done. So I'll see you Friday. Okay. So now I thought people were messing with me. No, I did. I thought my friends were messing with me at this point. So I called Hughes Moss back and say, did you just call me? They said, yes.

Is there a problem? Can you? I said, no, no, no, no. I'll be there. And sure enough, a couple of hours later, a messenger came to my door with a cassette of this is the music that we're thinking of using. Go. Right. So I was tripping to say the least.

So I'm thinking, okay, this is big. This is really big. And one of the classes I had to take as a musical theater degree major was this business of music. It was that big, thick textbook. It was written by Bill Feynman and Andy Kraslowski. There you go. There you go. I'm like, okay, I need somebody to help me with this.

So, again, just out of college. So I opened the book and noticed that they had an office here in New York. So I got the yellow pages. Yellow pages. What is that? Throwback. So I got the yellow pages, look them up. Yes, and they get delivered to the house.

And you go, why are you sending me this? So I look them up, I call them. And I say, hi, you don't know me, but I just got this amazing opportunity. placed in my lap and I'm sure I'm supposed to be doing something that I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Do you have paralegals? Do you have free legal service because I don't have any money? And they said, well, please come into our office tomorrow and we'll talk about it. It's okay. So I went to my audition. They said, thank you for coming. Goodbye. Okay. So I leave and I go to the lawyer's office and I explained to them what happened. They said, okay, we will be happy to help you.

I said, okay, no, stop. You missed the part where I said, I don't have any money. I need, I can't before you guys. They said, no, we're very impressed that you want to do this and do it the right way. So we are offering to help you free of charge. All we want to see is you be protected. And when the opportunity comes, you'll be willing to help somebody else. I sat in their office and I cried. Wow. I'm crying now. I know. So they negotiated my whole contract. They negotiated that I get 50% riders royalties, which was unheard of for me as basically an unknown writer. Right. At the time, 50% royalties and screen credit. So when we were negotiating, when they were negotiating with Carsey Warner, that's when we learned that, well, Mr. Gardner has a deal with Mr. Cosby,

that Mr. Cosby gets 50% of whatever he does. And my lawyer said, well, that's fine. Mr. Cosby can't have 50% of Mr. Gardner's 50%. The dog is 50%. This never happens. And they signed off on it. NBC got a whole new thing going on right now in 2020. I can imagine. So I went in the studio the next day. I record the song. The song had a rap in the middle of it. I was flowing. I was singing.

I was doing all the background vocals, et cetera. Oh, it wasn't the back porch, bluesy? No, mm-mm. No, that arrangement came later. Okay, okay. But the song, the lyrics, the melody, everything stayed. And the show was still called. No, stepping up to step out.

Step-up to Step Out was the original title. Right. So then I get a call on Monday. No, I get a call on Friday while I'm in the studio. that they want me to have a callback for this role on Monday. So I'm like, okay. I mean, they were so dismissive in the audition. I wasn't expecting to ever hear from them again.

So I go in Monday, and I kid you not, I'm the only person in the room I did not recognize. J'A Lee was in the room. People I've seen in magazines. People size, too, with light skin and green eyes and long hair and me. And I'm looking around the room, okay, I know her, her, her, her. Okay. So it's like, you know, and you count yourself out.

mentally, but I was like, well, I'm here, and they call me to come back, so I'm just going to go and do my thing, and wherever it falls, that's where it falls. I went in, I did my thing again, and they said, okay, thank you very much for coming back. I said, no problem. So I left and went to dance class, and I danced out for like another five hours. I came out of the dance studio. Someone screams my name from across the street. We have been looking for you all afternoon. Where's your agent? And I'm thinking, no one ever called me back. I never, I don't have an agent. You have to fly to LA on Wednesday to meet with the studio, et cetera. I said, okay, so I call a friend who called a friend who has an agent that said she would

negotiate my contract and all I have to do is pay her a salary. I just pay her a salary. She doesn't get commission. She doesn't get any of that because she didn't do my deal. So I paid her. She negotiated my contract. It was a sucky contract, but at least I had one. Right.

And I got on a plane, never flown first class before. It was Pan Am. flew first class. Did you smoke cigarettes in first class? No, I didn't. But I had a menu and a tablecloth and food and appetizers. It's like, this is the boss. So I flew to L.A.

They put me up in one of those top suites at the Sheridan Universal that had like almost a panoramic view of the valley. Still there. I'm like, what is this life that I am? What is happening right now? So I went to the audition. The car came and got me, took me to the studio. and there were these young ladies there waiting to be seen.

So it was three of us. And they're sitting in talking, well, this is my seventh callback. And my agent told me that by this time, they have to offer it to me. And I know they're calling in some girl from New York. And then I know she thinks she all of that. And I'm the only one sitting there. I'm saying, wow. They try to flam you.

They were, like, trying to get in my head. They were not nice. So that's real? This is real. I see it portrayed on television. Yes, it was not nice. But they tried to get in your head. Oh, they try to get in my head.

And it's like, wow. Wow, you know, I'm sitting right here. You know, okay, fine, whatever, whatever. So I go into the room and the producers like, how was the flight? Are you okay? Did you see your contracts? And so, fine, fine. So I'm walking out after reading the sides.

And I'm leaving and the girls are sitting there. And the young lady that walks me out and says, okay, the car is downstairs waiting for you. Your contracts are there. Everything should be in order. Just sign the paperwork in the car. I'll be back to pick you up this afternoon. Okay, Miss, Miss Lewis, all right, you're good. You need anything else?

No, no, no, I'm fine. And the girls were sitting there like, ah. So I looked over to them and said, good luck. And left. And then that afternoon, this car comes and gets me. I now go to the studio. So now the room is full of people who decide whether or not you get hired. And do you remember the actress, Vernet Watson Johnson?

Yes. Okay. Vernet was also auditioning to play the Dorm Mother. So Vernet saw. me sitting there like rolling my sides up in my hand and I'm nervous. I'm like, I'm going to see the lines. And then one of the exact producers comes out and says, take your hair out of your face. I was like, okay. So I pulled it back out of my face and Renee says, are you okay? I said, I'm just, you know, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. She says, come with me. She took me in the hallway. She had me

breathe and relax. And she said, if you want, I'll run lines with you. Come on. Just let's let's go And she sat there and ran lines with me until I cooled out and chilled out. And then I went in the room. I did my thing. And I came out and I hugged her. And she and I had been friends ever since. When both of us booked a pilot, she let me stay at her house until I found an apartment. She's one of the most beautiful.

I'm telling you lessons like that and opportunities, teach you to be a decent human being. So Renee, God bless you. I love you forever. So they flew back to New York. And they, Hughes Moss called me and said, The Cosby is the last interview that you have, and so we want you to book this job. So come into our office tomorrow morning, and we're going to put you in the right outfit,

and then we're going to go. And that was when the Cosby Show was shooting in Brooklyn, like not even 15 minutes from my house. So I stayed up all night trying to put outfits together and got on the subway from last stop and Flapush to midtown on 46, wherever their office was, with this huge bundle of clothes that I can. carried on the subway. Okay, so I walk into their office and they go, perfect. What you're wearing is perfect. I was like, for real? Really? Really? Really right now? Really? So then I had to take my big bundle of clothes. We got into a car and drove back to Brooklyn. Near your crib. Near my crib to go and meet with Mr. Cosby. So we're sitting in his dressing room. He's on the phone at his

table over there. And myself and Tom Werner, Marcy Carsey, and the Hughes Moss, Julie Hughes, and Barry are sitting there. And so he roddles over. He had a chair. They had wheels. He waddles over. And so I'm ready. I got my sides. I was nervous. Rolling. I'm going to read from Mr. Cox. Okay. All right. All right. I'm going to do this audition. And they said, well, Bill, before we get started, what did you think of the song? Now, mind you, this is all within the same week and a half. I forgot about the song. Yes. Bill, what did you think of the song. Oh, I love the song. The song is perfect. And the girl's voice. Oh, that's perfect. She's going to be amazing. The words are perfect. Everything is perfect. And I sat there like, and I raised, I literally raised my hand. I kid you not. And they said,

yes, what? I just want to say, thank you for the song. I'm glad you liked the song. I said, what are you talking about? I said, I'm the girl. I'm the one who wrote it. I'm the one you listening to sing it. And they look at me like, what? And Bill just started laughing. He just started laughing. And they were like, he says, wait, stop. That's you. And I said, yeah, that's, that's, Stu and I did that last Friday. And this was like Wednesday or Thursday of the next the next week. And he's like, all right, okay. And then they started talking about what they're going to do to my hair. You see the way she's dressed right now? That's perfect. I love that. We're going to do this to her hair and this and that. So I'm sitting there like 10 minutes goes by.

And I raised my hand again. They said, yes, what? I said, does this mean I have a job? Finally. This is me and I have a job. And they said, yes. So they said, just wait in the hallway for a minute. I'm like, so Mr. Warner comes out and I'm in the hallway like leaned up against the wall. My eyes are big and how you scream and nothing comes out your mouth. And he says, do you need anything?

I said, well, can I use your phone? Please, I have to call my mom. I got to call my mom. So he took me into his office and sat me down. That was when you had to push nine to get an outside line. Oh, you remember that shit? Yes. So he let me call my mom.

Long distance. Oh, remember the what was it, the Watts lines. When you had a little code to dial long distance for free, whatever? Yes. So I said, well, before you go, I don't want to be crazy sound or anything, but would you pray with me? And he said, I'd be happy to. So we prayed together in his office, gave God thanks, and he left. He said, just whatever you need.

Take as long as you want. So I called my mom. My mom was an O-R technician, which means she assisted surgeons in the operating room. So I called and said, well, your mom is in surgery. I said, you have to get her out now. You have to, I have to speak to her right now. So my mom comes to the phone thinking I'm like bleeding or dying

somewhere. She says, what is it? What is it? I said, Ma, I got the job. She says, uh, what? What? She's like, girl, I'm going to kill you. What? I was like, I said, Ma, I got the job. I went to, she says, weird, with Mr. Crosby. She could never say Cosby. With Mr. Crosby?

I said, yeah, she's on tank. Jesus. Oh, God. Oh, yes, Father, thank you, Jesus. Oh, a lot of mercy. Oh, yes. Thank you, oh, Dee Dee. She called me, Didi.

Didi, oh, thank your father. And neither one of us were any good after that. We were just crying on the phone. And it was great. And two days later, I was back on a plane in L.A. shooting a pilot. Wait, so you had to move in 48 hours? No, we shot to shoot the pilot.

Oh, okay. So I was there for like two weeks. We still don't know if this pilot is going to make it but winked up. or whatever. And at that point, after shooting the pilot and seeing the female influence and them deciding that since it wasn't my show, it was too much to have me sing the theme song. Right. You know, you can't write it, sing it. And it's a song to the other else's show.

Okay, fine. They had Al Green come in and sing it. And that was when we flipped the name to a different world. So I rewrote just that line. Instead of stepping up to step out, it was, you know, this different world. You had to coach Al Green? I did. What was that like?

It was amazing. No, it was amazing. I couldn't believe it. I absolutely could not believe that. I was like, no, no, Al, it goes like this. And he was open and receptive? He was open and receptive. Not so much.

No, he was open and receptive. And that was where I met Rochelle Farrell and Lynn Fidmont. So singing backgrounds on that version, it was me, Rochelle, and Lynn. They changed the music by then? Well, yes, it had more of that, like, honky-tonk feel to the, so it was closer to to what Phoebe ended up releasing. Okay. So once it became clear, this was really female-driven.

They took out Al's vocal, and Phoebe came in and recorded. I wasn't in that session. Oh, you didn't. I wasn't in that session because I was filming by then. Phoebe's a hero, man. She was doing double-dutch. Yeah, I was doing double-dutch. There you go, because we did that in Brooklyn, too.

Oh, that was shot in Brooklyn? No, no, no, no, no. That was shot in El-Sagundo. Oh, okay. I'm just saying they didn't believe I knew how to jump double-ditch. I said, if you find somebody who can really turn, I can throw, throw that. So I said, not only will I throw it out, I'm going to do it in pumps. Y'all ain't ready.

That's right. Y'all ain't ready. Y'all ain't ready. Y'all ain't ready. Is there a version of the Al Green version around? I have it. I have the stepping up to step out. Yes, I have the stepping up to step out.

We're your new best friends right now. I have the Al Green version, and I wasn't there when Aretha did it. So their concept was like the Cosby Show kind of revamped their music. They were going to revamp it every season. but once Aretha sang it, they were like, yeah, not, we're good. We're good. Yeah, that's such a frozen moment where I was waiting for the honky tongue thing and I was like, wait, what the hell is this?

Yes. And, oh, man, and this is without a VCR Beckman. So I had to wait seven days to record it next week to see. And then the final season, Boys to Men, reread, re-reter. Yeah, right. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall, and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know,

the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Shooting that show. Of course, with the level of where the Cosby Show was,

I mean, did you feel that you were doing something important or historical that was going to touch a bunch of kids' lives? You know, when, I can only speak from myself. When we started the show, like any actor, young actor, you're happy to have a job. And you know the quality of the show that you're coming off of because the Cosby Show was just such a high-quality show. and so many people, regardless of what nationality you were or age group you were, you had a special place in your heart for that show. So we knew some of that was going to be coming over as far as legacy building and changing lives and influencing generations. No, I didn't. No. I knew that our first season was typical sitcom, and that was because of the person that was the showrunner.

Who was the, yeah, who directed it? And, well, we had different directors first C season, but our executive producer was Ann, Ann Beetz. Okay, yeah. And who had come off of square pegs and, et cetera. So we were literally doing. There was no difference because we basically did square peg scripts. But did you feel like, I don't know this will fly with each?

We thought it was ridiculous. Really? We thought the scripts were ridiculous. And literally, I'm very serious. We did revamped square pegs scripts. Like when we first started working, the show was myself, Jasmine, myself, Lisa, and Marissa, Tomei. When the new management came in,

that was when the Whitley Gilbert character was added, the Dwayne-Wain character, etc. Well, we reshot the pilot, right, they weren't in the pilot, but we reshot stuff so that they would be included from the beginning. Because he's the first person you see, right? Well, the pilot was like the season finale. The pilot was in 86. No, we shot shot the pilot in 85.

Yeah, but like it was eventually aired... Sorry, 80, 86. It was eventually aired as a finale of the first season, right? Because... No, it was eventually aired as the first episode. It was? Uh-huh. It was eventually aired as the first episode.

I remember because of the pilot where Dwayne talks to the camera, fourth wall, like... Yeah, but there was another episode that came before that because, like, Vernet is in it as the Dornbenter. Um, and Whitley and Dway... They went there. They weren't there. Oh, okay. So you were a member better than I do. Yeah.

Okay. So that's what we were doing. And Ms. Beetz brought in those other characters. So we reshot stuff to include them once for when the show actually began airing. Was there panic in the air once you realized that Lisa wasn't going to come back for season two? Not really. How comfortable do you have to be before you're like, this job is real?

Let me be. You know, I never get that type with my money. No. I'm, I'm, because I had already been working for so long, show start, shows end. Nothing is forever. So, you know, different people, you buy cars, you buy houses. Like, I ain't buying nothing.

Because they could tell us tomorrow. And the way they fire folk around here, if Lisa can go, guess what? They can let you go too. Right. You know what I mean? We would come to work some days and not know who was going to be at work. It was like that. But by this point, you could probably.

afford your own marbles, right? Yes. But I was so far past marbles by then. I was so past marvels by then, yes, yes. So, but is. That was hilarious. You didn't have, but is there a moment where it's sort of like, okay, I made it, or you're still like, is the gillet, is the, is the, is the

feeling on the guillotine button? Yes. I'm telling you. Never a comfort moment? I wouldn't say not comfort. You knew you had a job, and if you were wise, you would be aware that this could change at any moment. So you go to work and you do your gig.

And I watched the show go from featuring three people to featuring 14 people in just four years. You know, all these other characters got added. You know, from Cree's character to Sean Chanel's character, You know, everybody, all these people kept getting added. And every storyline was pretty much focused on Dwayne, Wayne, and Whitley. So you add more people. That means there's less and less for everyone else to do.

So that was when I started digging deeper into, okay, what else am I going to do? And that was how I ended up working with Quincy Jones and the Handel's Messiah, Sofa Celebration. That was how I won the Grammy in writing and producing for other people and doing my own stuff. I got into animation. You know, I know Kree is known a lot for animation, but I've been doing animation as well. Yeah. So right now, I think I do like six, seven different series now.

How hard is it to navigate in that world? Voiceover? Yeah. It really depends. The directors and studios like to work with who they know can deliver. So once you're in the circle, you work a bit more, and people just request you directly. it's a little harder to break into, but it's not impossible,

especially because there were so many projects available now. When I first started, my first animated series was produced by Suzanne DePas. Wow. What project? It was Kid and Play. They're a cartoon. Kid and Play Cart Cartoon. I played The Younger Sister.

I didn't know that. I was the younger sister on the show. I remember that. There you go. Oh, God. I was the younger sister. on that show and then Suzanne got the opportunity to produce a Christmas special with with boys to men doing guest spot voices called Cool Like That. So I did voices for that and I played a seven-year-old boy

in that, that show. And again, this was all freelance, didn't have an agent. So I would get called to do things here and there because I was the new voice in town. I was on a TV show. People knew who I was. I was able to create different characters with my voice of different ages and male or female. And so I finally decided to get an agent. And that was when I got an agent. And they allowed me to freelance as well. I assume the term that can deliver means that you can knock it out with the quickness. Well, you knock it out and you understand what they're asking you to do.

And because you're not on camera, you have to be able to sell and convince something just with your voice. So you have to turn into a seven-year-old. Turned to a seven-year-old boy. And, yeah. And it has to be believable when you listen back to it. So since then, you know. So what is your range like as far as your, I know Cree has a range of, she can sound like a freakazoid or, you know, whatever.

I do all of that. I do video games, Mortal Kombat. I've done, yeah, Storm and the X-Men. I do lots of different video games. I do Simpsons. Simpsons calls me in the Juven. do all kinds of extraneous voices for like the last three years.

I record The Simpsons last week. I have another one next week. I do the series Apple and Onion where I play Patty, the Meat, the Meat Patty boss. CBS is coming out with a new animated series. Star Trek Lower Decks. I'm the captain on Star Trek Lower Decks.

Damn, Dawn Lewis, we hardly knew you. I'm really not going to ask you about cramps now. No, no. No. I also do, Where in the World is Carmen San Diego for Netflix. I'm the voice of the chief. And when we just released our interactive series games,

I do the voice of the chief in that. Don't forget Futurama now. Futurama. I'm LaBarbara and Futurama. I'm Granny McStuffins and Doc Mix, Mick McStuffins. Who is the voice of actual, of Doc McStuffins? To be honest with you, I don't know. I honestly don't know the young lady's name

because usually when I get called in the studio is just me. And you meet people, you don't. meet people, so I apologize I was stuck in an elevator with her once and when I told, I'd never heard of a Doc McStuffins in my life. Okay. So when I got out the elevator to go to the airport, one of my managers,

she's like, I mean, even though she's of age, she's eternally 13 years old. Okay. So I Cavley said that, yeah, I was in the elevator with whoever plays Doc McStuffins and she, like, Zara like lost her mind. Yeah, they do. A lot of people do, yeah, it's a trip.

Shows like Spirit, shows like Sophia the first. Another one I did way back in the day was C. Bear and Jamal with Tone Loke. Yeah. I think I did like three or four voices in that show. I played the grandmother who kind of almost didn't have any teeth in her mouth. And it was just so much fun. And the kids' teacher, Miss Fine. Another one where the little bear wanted to get a job.

I was an old, old Jewish man in the factory where he worked. So, no, we had a lot of fun. Maybe I know. What's his name? What's his name? His name was Heinzzi. Vingo, you're wasting too much time. Time is money.

Work, work. Faster, faster, faster. To hear it, doors have never closed on you or always open for you. Oh, sure they do. I wouldn't say always open. I got to ask, has one role ever gotten away? that like either to another commitment or something that you had a chance to go for that you weren't able to? Yeah, I wanted to do Tina Turner and what's love got to do with it.

And they got some unknown chick named Angela Bassett to do it. She was all right. I never heard of her. She was phenomenal. A name like Angela Bassett, she'll never go anywhere. She'll never go. I mean, she's just the coolest people, one of my dear friends. And, you know, yeah.

I got, well, speaking of which, let me lead it to this, where you are now at the Tina Turner play. The sort of the quasi-volatile relationship between her mother and her in-mat play was, that was intense. Is she executive producer of the play? Like, is she a part of the production? Ms. Turner? Yes. Yes. Okay.

She's been involved with. From the beginning, she handpicked all of the songs that are in the show. All of the songs are songs that she recorded at one time or another. The way that they're placed in the show is not necessarily chronological when they were released, but they're placed strategically to help tell the story. Only ask because this was way more intense than what's love got to do with it, at least the relationship between the two. And I wanted to know.

Well, it goes into a bit more. more detail of the life. Some people, you know, think that if you've seen that movie then, then you've seen the most story. Right. But that's not the case at all. And in playing Zemma, her mother's name is Zelma Bullock. Her name was originally Anna Mae Bullock before it got changed to Tina, Tina Turner.

It was important to me to come and do this particular role just because it was so real for me in my life, because that was the life that I lived. I watched, I was raised in the house with domestic violence. my mom had to get out in order to save herself and put herself in a better position to save us. My dad was a policeman. He was head of the Department of Homicide in Brooklyn when I was small. And so when my mom would go to report the violence,

the cops would basically tell her that, if you would just do what he told you, he wouldn't have to hit you, kind of a thing. Well, that's a domestic situation. We don't get involved in that. Yeah, exactly. Jesus Christ. So my mom left us, and we ended up being taken by my grandmother that I mentioned

for a couple of years. until my mom was able to come back and get us. So that was how we went from bedstay to park slope, back to bedstay when my mom came back and got us. Fortunately, my dad learned to make better choices in his life, and I'm grateful for that, especially before he passed passed us away. So we were able to heal certain things.

But again, my relationship with my mom, her mom, like Zelma tells Tina at one point, you need to go back to him because who do you think He helped make you. And what my mom was told was who do you think is going to take you with four kids, what person's going to want you, even though understanding what that violent situation was. So it was a very different time. People didn't get divorced.

You knew that there were other kids somewhere across town or other girlfriends or whatever, but you dealt with it. So people like Zoma, like my mother, like my grandmother, who were strong enough to love themselves enough to make a different choice. especially during that time, I just have nothing but love for. It's not a popular choice. And looking at it by today's standard, you can judge and point fingers, well, I would never leave my kids. It was a very different time. And until you're in that position, I know some people who really should leave.

Right. You know, domestic violence shouldn't be tolerated, whether it's male to female or female to male, because there's some violent women out there with, you know, men being really physically and emotionally damaged in these relationships. So you can't help up your kids unless you save yourself. And that was what happened in our family. So in my portrayal of Zelma, it was important to me that you see her as a human being who had to make different choices.

You may or may not agree with them. Their relationship was always very complicated and damaged. But hopefully you can see a human being there. and both of them unfortunately you sometimes repeat generational realities because in order to become the Tina Turner

that we knew she ended up having to leave her kids to basically be raised by her sister and her mother and you know in order for her to be who she is but it ultimately is a story of not just surviving

but thriving you know what I mean in spite of so I'm really honored to be a part of that thank you I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it so much.

I brought you a gift, actually. Thank you. You brought me a gift. I'm enrolling a scroll. I'm enrolling a scroll. This was something that I made for the entire company for an opening night gift. So it is a playbill version of the team. You made this for your cast?

I made this for the cast. You're so professional, man. And so this is the entire company. On good paper. Each one of us. And so, yeah, so that's the creative team. That's the Bullock family. Tina, that's our director.

That's me. That's young, the little girl that plays anime Bullock. That's the young woman that was playing the older version of our daughter, Ali. Right, yeah. She's not there anymore. This is the woman, Mara Luklu, Lucre, Kisha Taylor, who plays Gigi, the grandmother. That's David Jennings, who plays Richard Bullock. And then those are the guys in the ensemble, and that's everybody.

Well, we thank you for this. I will cherish this. He says, did you notice that I will cherish this? I will cheer. Yo, this is really on good paper. This paper's like leather. Is that velvet? Yeah.

It's like special. That's beautiful. So I would like to think that at least hearing the narrative and sort of the linear motion that your life has taken. You stepping out in confidence and not saying that everything was done

without you being nervous or I can't do this, but I kind of feel like the, common denominator is like everything that you've attempted to do, you did without a second thought or a voice in your head that says you can't do this. Right. You know, so what, but from you doing that at an early age till even now, still working, where no one has this narrative that I've heard, and I've been doing this show for three years now. practically like what is that because I feel like that's what's it I feel like you have a confidence or

stepping out on faith in terms of just doors open for you you know yes and and no yes doors open when I saw you at Mr. Bebellafonte's birthday celebration and you told me that you wanted me to be on your show, that just really blessed my spirit because you don't know who sees you. You don't know who you pursue in life and they either respond or you don't. You're like me trying to chase down an agent for months and nobody being willing to call back. There are still people that I try to approach now that you would hope would be supportive or encouraging who are not necessarily because they have other people to answer to, the politics, the, you know, whatever. Like, yeah, and I'm going to say it. I want to come and

do Jimmy Fallon. I want to do the show. I want to do the view. I want to do all these things. And for whatever reason, it will or won't happen. But those are shows that I did back in the day when I was on Hang with Mr. Cooper or some other TV show. But now that I'm here in New York, you know, my own hometown, you know, I'm on Broadway, big stage, doing good work with great people. You want to do things. And as you know, in our business, the next gig is. almost predicated on the previous gig. Right. Like what did what did you do? How did you maximize it? Did anybody care?

Et cetera, et cetera. And then that's how the next gig happens. And things like staying relevant, staying present, staying marketable are what makes those kinds of things happen. So you do the best to do your best to do that. So I just want to tell you how much I appreciate being here. And you know, I had no idea that my journey meant even what it

means to you, but for us to be able to sit here and talk about it and exchange some of the things that we even have in common. Skellies. Who knew? Who knew? Who knew? That's it. You know what I'm saying?

We are taking it to a Skelly tournament. Yes. You know what I'm saying? All those kinds of things matter. And it sometimes gets frustrating when the journey feels stifled. Right. But like you said, I'm walking on faith because I was told at 7 that where I was pursuing was going to take me on a downward spiral that was going to be my spiritual demise my physical demise all of that

that is proven me that that is just not true that that's just not his journey for me so any step i want to take if i feel empowered and if i feel like okay he's giving me everything i need to succeed here then i'm going to give it a shot and let it be someone else's choice to say no she's too tall because i'm as tall as i am i'm as brown as i am i'm as whatever as i am but uh if i believe i have some something to offer, then that's what I'm going to do. I wish Lai'i was here to add ad lips. Yeah, Laii was, we should tell it. Lai was very upset that she couldn't be here today.

She really, really wanted to. I was looking forward to meeting her. She's been very kind. Well, we thank you very much for doing this. You've got to come back and tell us some Latin court stories. There's always stories. There's plenty, plenty stars and tales to tell. So on behalf of Boss Bill and Sugar Steve, Laii,

Ron Tickalo and I'm Babe Bill. Thank you, Dawn Lewis, for being here today, and we will see you on the next go-round of Quest Love Supreme. I love it, love it. Quest Love Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I-Hart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all of, about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really

matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits, teams look for, to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover

they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.