The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Deniece Williams

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

This week's episode of Questlove Supreme features the beautiful voice of Deniece Williams. After working with Stevie Wonder and Earth Wind & Fire, Niecy broke out into a Grammy-winning solo career that has spanned decades and multiple genres. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd

was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Ellen, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quest Love Supreme is a production. of iHeart radio. Okay.

That's a negative. Okay. Like a cough in a sneeze, a sniff is not a cough and a sniff is not a cough and a sniff in 2022. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. I am Questlove, your host, and with me is the Almighty Team Supreme. I feel like Don Cornelius every time I have a superlative thing.

Wow, we're almighty now, you guys. The mighty team Supreme. Yeah, you're not the mighty, but they're the almighty. I think somebody just got Soul Train on their mind. Yeah, I'm actually watching Soul Train right now. Anyway, uh, Sugar and Steve, what's up, brother? Oh, my gosh. Um, so much.

You feel like a new man now, don't you? I feel different, yes. Um, after what happened, Steve? I recorded, uh, an interview for Questlove Supreme with, uh, go ahead. Wait, let's not give it away yet. Oh, let's not give it away yet. But Steve, Steve took the lead. and did miraculous jimmy jam numbers four hours with uh with an incredible guest and you know we'll

we'll hear that episode yes soon he he got to nerd out i mean i was there as the training wills and then i i irish exited and you know left him on his own but it can't wait sounded awesome but you're fine steve you're fine everything's fine i'm fine i thought you said you're the fond steve and that is how i feel like the fons after it after i'm cool yeah i'm definitely cool now Great, great. Fon, take a little. How's it going, man? I'm cooling, bro.

I'm cooling, man. Cool and happy to have Ms. Denise here today. This is my childhood. Oh, close and personal. For real. Absolutely. And, you know,

why you cannot contain herself? Listen, I am so, you don't even understand. I am pumped beyond pumped and. Yes. Yes. Oh. Well, our guest today

absolutely needs an introduction. She's a legendary songbird. with over 17 albums, 19 top, 40 R&B singles, two number one pop singles, 13 Grammy nominations, four wins. But basically, just for the last five decades, has blessed us with that angelic voice of hers, be it as a member of Wonderlove, you know, where we first got to see her on a national level, or just her illustrious solo career, and told music with her own solo records on Columbia Records, or her pop career, or her gospel career. And yes, in my opinion, one of the voices of one of my all-time favorite TV themes. Yes, yes, I'm here.

We'll get into that. This interview has been a long time coming. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlef Supreme, the one and only. Denise Williams. Yes, sir. How are you? How are you doing? Wonderful. I'm wonderful. I'm really excited to be with you guys,

finally. We've been trying us. So here we are. We make it. And it's lovely. I'm excited to be here with you. I have one question. I am going to start at the beginning of your life, but I've got to get this out the way. So when my parents brought home, this is Nisi, your first record on Columbia. Huh? All right, I was six.

I, you know, since then I've had the record in other iterations, like A-track and cassette and CD, but, you know, the actual vinyl, like, I only remember that from my childhood. Is the name junior or June? Is Junior in your name or June something? Because in your liner notes, I remember seeing that as your name, and I've, you know, I have an uncle named Junie. and I was trying to ask my mom like, wait, how's her name Junie and she's a lady? Like, what is your full name? My full name is June, Denise Williams. I was born on June 3rd, so my full and first name is June.

Ah, okay. I get it now. I think throughout time, like, you know, like when you see something once and then, like, decades go by, I think at the time I thought maybe your name, was Denise Williams Jr. or something like that, but I, I, because you was young. I didn't, yeah, I didn't associate the name June. When I saw that name, I thought of my uncle Junie. I'm like, wait, how does she have his name? So I get it. Related, you never know. I see. And you're a Gemini. Yes, I am. Oh, all right. I forgive you. Anyway, nobody's perfect. Right.

I have Jim and I, my mother, I would wake up in the morning, my mother will look at me and say, okay, who are you today? You June or you Denise? Which one am I today? Oh, really? You dealing with the both of us. Duplicit. Is that who we have today? We have both today? Mm-hmm. Okay. Let's get it. That's good. I get myself entertained, too. All right, I get it, I get it.

I know that you were born in Gary, Indiana. So I usually start with where were you born? But I want to start with a different question. Could you please tell me what your very first musical memory was? My very first musical memory is I was three years old, and I was sitting on the back porch at my grandparents' house. And I said, we will now have a. selection from Denise. And I started singing this song called There's a Man Waiting Way Beyond the Clouds. And my dad's sister, my aunt heard me. And she came out and she said, if I asked you to sing that song in church on Sunday, would you do it? And I said, okay. And so I sang the song. And next thing I know, I was in the children's choir at my church. That's my very first musical memory.

And what was it about that song that attracted you to it? I just loved it. I love the melody. I love the message of the song about someone in heaven waiting for me and the beautiful melody and the fact that I just liked the sound of it when I was singing the sound of my voice on it. Of course, you were born in the Midwest. you know there's there's another famous nearby family that's kind of synonymous with that city of

Gary Indiana but could you give me your version like when I hear of Gary Indiana besides the song Gary Indiana you know I only know of the Jackson's version of Gary Indiana which is basically the tale of a father using hook or crook to get his kids out of that city. But what are your memories of Gary, Indiana? I love growing up in Gary. We had in my neighborhood, you know, one thing I realized is that I didn't know that we were poor. You know, I thought we had everything. As long as we had tuna fish, I was fine. I love you. I'm making tuna fish right now. You know what I'm saying. So, you know, I had an upbringing in the church. I spent a lot of time on the weekends with my grandparents. And, you know, I had an upbringing in the church. I spent a lot of time on the weekends

with my grandparents and my grandmother was the mother of the church, Faith Temple Church, you got in Christ over in East Chicago. So I was there with them and basically, you know, just grew up with to school, very Christian, youngster, you know, didn't know a lot about what was going on. I think I was very innocent. I remember one time one of my neighbors said, you know, the way you got here is your mom and dad, they did the duty. And I fought with her.

I said, they did not. And so, you know, I was, you know, very innocent race with my brother, two brothers and a sister. And I really liked Gary in those days. You know, school was fun. I had a lot of fun friends. And I didn't know much about, you know, the political system of what was happening. But we did have the first black mayor, which was Richard Hatcher. And so, you know, a lot of the history of Gary and the black communities was really, really great.

You know, later on, of course, there was the drug scene and that. But I grew up, I didn't start singing until I was a teenager. And so my math teacher owned a record store, and I asked him for a job. I got a job. So I was singing, you know, a lot of stuff in there. I have seen Michael and the Jackson Pied perform at the Masonic Tehran. Temple one time. And I think he was about five years old or something. And so their cousin, the drummer in the group, Johnny. Johnny had a crush on me. I thought it was a crush on my sister. And maybe it was. So he used to come

over to the house. And we would see them. I remember, you know, some girls showed up at my house. And they said, we want to sing in the talent show. But one of our singers is sick. And we heard that you can sing. And one of the girls said, can you sing? I said, well, if you came to church, you'd know, okay? So, you know, I sang in a talent show, but I said, well, the Jackson Five is going to win the talent show, but we sang, and actually, we sang it's going to take a miracle. Really? That was the song we sang in the talent show. Full circle. And so, you know, I loved growing up in Indiana. It was a great time to be raised. There was great. The discipline and the growing up in the,

the church and, you know, the way the elder black people were at that time and how proud they were as, you know, doing their work and that kind of stuff. Of course, later on as a teenager, I did, you know, joined the NAACP and I did some marching for Jim Crow, you know, the John Birch Society and then folk. So that was also part of my upbringing. But it was really wonderful to grow up in the Midwest where you had rules and regulations. You really knew who you were. and, you know, and what was going on. So it was wonderful. I'm grateful for my upbringing in the Midwest and in Gary, Indiana.

Did you have any sort of interaction with other notable Gary people? Like, I know that Kim, Kim Mazzel's from Gary's well. Yeah, Kim Mazzell, yeah. I didn't know. Okay. Or like Fred Williamson or Ernest, I know Ernest Lee Thomas, who played rides from what's happening. That was a funny story because my grandfather was a pastor.

He had, you know, his membership. There was maybe about 20, 25 of us up in my grandfather's church. And he was a pastor. He was a musical director. He was the choir leader. And so the choir existed about five of us. And Ernie Thomas was one of the members of my grandfather's church. We grew up together.

Wow. Wow, okay. Wow, that's what's up. I've known him since I was about 10. Probably in the early arts. I commented, did a show at the House of Blues, and, you know, Ernest Lee Thomas was in the foundation room, like all excited, wanted to come backstage.

And, you know, I see him walking down the hallway, and I'm all excited. And he's, like, asking me permission to, like, yo, can I, can I meet him? Can I, you know, take a photo and everything? Da, da, da, da. He's like, I love this album and everything. He's like all excited.

And he goes to calm and he's like, yeah, I'm trying to be respectful. Because, you know, I asked your bodyguard first if you could, you know, if you could take a photo. You were his bodyguard. I'm going to tell you something, though, fun. That was the day where I was like, I have to lose weight. So I never shared this story, but it was that day when, when. Not I got to get more famous. I got to lose weight.

Yeah, no, no. But the thing was, I was like, wait a minute. Or wear some colors. Because he knew everything on that album. And I'm like, wait a minute. How do you know common but don't know the roots? And how do you not know that I'm a member of the roots? And he's like, oh, I'm sorry.

No offense, sir. I thought he was bodyguard. And I was like, oh, man, I got to lose weight. So that was the day. Wow. I had to do that. Shout out to Ernst, Thomas. Okay, so the thing is, is that you grew up in a church environment.

What were, first of all, how many siblings did you have in your household? There were two brothers and my sister. Derek is under me, Diane, and then Donnell. Are you the baby or the... I'm the eldest. I'm the oldest. Oh, you're first. Okay.

Was the D for, stand for anything while everybody was a D? My mom thought she was being unique. You know, what can I say? I mean, my name is D-E-N-I-E-C-E. Right. My sister is Diane, but it's D-Y-A-N-E. Different spellers? She was, you know, trying to be unique and artistic

and whatever else she was. Well, you know, hey, she knew she was naming. Like, you were an artist. You gave art to the world. That's right. So growing up in that environment, how, like, Often, kind of a common theme with some of the singers that come on the show is often, like, secular music is frowned upon. Like, you have to stay in the church.

So often they're transitioning from the church to kind of, you know, secular music, whatever, is sort of met with a frown. What was the general feeling of secular music back then? as far as your household was concerned. Well, it was frowned upon. You know, if you did the devil's music, you want to winnie-rose picket on your way to hell. You know, so I was trying to stand the hell. So you weren't allowed to listen to Motel?

Oh, yeah, I did. Of course. Oh, that was it. Okay, that was it. You know, but the bottom line is that my mother, who was born and raised in the church under my grandmother, said when she got grown, she was never going to church again. And so she was.

drop us off that church on Sunday when I wasn't with my grandpa. And she would pick us up, but she did not go in. She was doing the drop-off pickup service. And my mom was an incredible music fan. So she had a turntable in her bedroom and all of these different records. So when she would go to work and I would get home from school before she got it there, I was sneaking my mother's room and play all her stuff. I mean, I wanted to look like, sound like, dressed like Nancy Wilson.

That was my girl. You know, Nancy Wilson, Dakota Staten, you know, Billy Eckstein. I was listening to all of them, you know, through my mother's music. She had a very eclectic collection. Like I learned a lot of standard songs because she had an album on Jackie Gleason. And Jackie, it was the Jackie Gleason Orchestra, and they did all these standards, but no lyrics. It was just ooze and Oz, and I learned, you know,

I was sing along with all of these, you know, these records, Marlina Shaw. I mean, so my whole upbringing with music, the secular music was going on in my house. I just, you know, my mama didn't know I was sneaking in there listening to all her stuff, but I was up in there and then on television, when you would see certain artists like,

I even told Johnny Mathis, I said, honey, I do this duet because I've been listening to singing with you for 30 years. I was all right. Oh, okay. Because I've been in all these shows, and I've been a rehearsal for a long time. So it was my mother's record collection, you know, that really introduced me to secular music.

And then, you know, and then also growing up And my math teacher had the record store. So I was over there doing that. So I listened to all of them. You know, I love all kinds of music. So, you know, there was a way made for me to listen, even though it was forbidden. I was carrying all my secret music life and enjoying myself.

Mm-hmm. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the Forrest. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, who, who, who. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent.

He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your You know, I can't imagine a time where, you know, music almost had the same sort of status as, and you know, in some black churches as almost like pornography. Like, it was just forbidden. So what was that like for you as a teenager? Because, you know, being as though

the year that you were born, you know, by the time that's your 13, 14, 15, where like, there's now black psychedelic rock, there's, you know, motown's going through new phase or sliding the family stone, like, how is that affecting your teen years? Well, I tell you, it did, and probably the most impactful thing that happened to me was that I did do a local record, you know, when I was, I think I was 18 called Love is Tears, and it was written by Eugene Records of the Shy Lights. And Barbara. Oh, yeah. Oh, way.

Love makes a woman, Barbara Acklin and Jean. Yeah. Because my teacher who owned the record store, he came in the back one day and he heard me singing by a Maritha Franklin record. I think I was singing, Ain't No Way, something like that. And then he came out into the record party. He said, I didn't know you could sing. I said, because you don't go to church, you know. That was your thing.

Yeah, that was my thing. he had talked to my mom and say, can I bring over some record people from Chicago to hear her sing, you know, to think about a recording her. My mom said yes, because, you know, she was like,

listen, honey, you sing what you want to sing. Them other people in that church, they crazy. Nice. And so they came over and they hurt me and they, and we recorded this song called Love is Tears.

And so, but when my church found out that I had recorded that song, they stood me. up in church. They stripped me of my membership. I was singing in five choirs at that time, Indiana State Choir. They said I couldn't sing in the choirs anymore. And they went off on me because I was a sinner and I had done this. So, you know, after they did that, I kind of swung over to my mother's side in a minute, like, I'm not coming back. And so you know, do what you want to do, all you unhappy women getting up on Sunday,

snottin and crying at your husband on the street. I'll take it. Anyway, so. Talk about it. I love this. And Ms. Denise, so that first, that first song you did, The Love is Tears, you did that under your name. That wasn't under Alias or anything.

It was under Denise Chandler because Williams is my favorite name. So it's Denny God's Amler, Love is Tears by Totting Town Records. You know, I have one over there in my safe. I kept a little copy somebody sent me. And yeah, they got mad with me and stripped me up my membership. And, you know, I couldn't go. And, you know, my best friend at the time were my cousins. And we used to travel with their father, who was the pastor and sing.

And they told me, oh, we can't have anything to do with you because of your place. And I said, honey, I said, I don't really, that really hurts me. I'm sorry to hear that, but you have to live by what you believe, and I have to live by what I believe. So come 1976, did you get your moment? I sure did, and I'm going to give you more. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. All right, we'll get to that.

When did you wind up leaving Gary, Indiana? I love Gary, Indiana. I think when I was 18, I went away. my band teacher, Mr. Bryant, was like my father to me. And he got me into college. His roommate from college was the president of Morgan State. Oh, yes, sir. HBCU?

Yes, I went there. All right now. So he sent me to Morgan State, you know, after that. And so it was like I went there and I majored in sex and, drugs and you said. But, you know, the church people

turned me loose. I went to Morgan State and lost my mind. I, Quest, I lost my mind. Oh, wait, can you really say, what was Baltimore like back then,

though, when you went to, when you went to Morgan? You know, Baltimore was wonderful. I enjoyed it. But I had a friend that lived in the dormitory, and she was in Philadelphia. Her name was China. So then, you know, I was there on a student work kind of a program.

And so I went into the high school in Baltimore. There'll be a TA, a teacher's assistant. And then women in that class, they already had babies. 10th graders had babies. They look rough like they could eat me up. So I was scared. I'm scared. So China said, girl, I heard they looking for a singer and a dancer down at

this club. And so she said, let's go down there and audition. And so we went down to the club and I got the job singing and she got the job dancing. And we were singing and dancing in a cage. She'd be on one cage and I was on another cage. So. Wow. I told my mama no. Anyway, so. Hold on. Let's go back to the cage. Okay. Okay. Let's go back to the cage. Because it was the church. I've already seen the graphics for her episode. It was the opening act for these five guys that was called the Feminiques.

They was waiting for they change body, their surgery at a John Hopkins Hospital. Oh, Baltimore, yes. The opening up. Wow, okay. Yes. Yes. Oh, I forget the club that was popping in Baltimore that was known. Oh, yeah.

Yes. So, Ms. Denise, what was your attire in the cage? What was your outfit? I had on a little jumpsuit, you know. China had on little jumpsuits. Then we was in the cage, and I was singing by, you know, the records of Ritha and all that kind of stuff. And she'd be dancing. Yeah, I made more money in that cage, and I would have made if I stayed at school.

Yeah. This was your first time out of, away from home. I'm telling you, it was my first time because my mom borrowed my neighbor's car, Ronnie. He bought a ride a car. She drove me from Gary, Indiana, to Baltimore. And when my mom laughed, I was standing there. And then I peek up and she'd be down the road. And then she's gone.

And then I couldn't see. I said, ooh. Man. Listen. Oh, wow. Morgan is that school. I'm glad it had the history. Same.

at last thank god almighty and they already had me church had me set up in a church at baltimore and some people that was going to pick me up on sunday and take me to church so that lasted about two months oh it lasted that long that's i'm surprised at that long yeah it lasted that long i see so okay you're in baltimore but the thing is you released a single so in your mind when you made that single was that just a one-off thing? Okay, I made a 45 and

whatever. I mean, are you actively pursuing like, okay, I want to do this for real. I want to get a record deal and release music. Or is it just like okay, I did that. That was fun. You know, I never wanted to sing.

Wait, with that voice? No, because I grew up in a church with a lot of great gospel singers. My cousins, they would, you know, they would sing and folks would be slaying in the spirit and falling out and shouting and running all through the church. And I was sing, and they would listen and cry. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. And I was thinking, I'm doing something wrong because they're not falling out and speaking in tongues and doing all of that. They're just listening and they're crying. I mean, they would be boohoo crying when I was singing. And so I just

thought I didn't have it. And my mom was a nurse's aide. My grandmother worked in the hospital as a nurse's age. I had an aunt who worked in sterilizing instruments. And so I wanted to be a nurse. That's what I was going to do. That's right. Oh, wow. John Renewis called you nurse Nisi. I remember that. Okay. I wanted to be a nurse. I wasn't thinking about the music industry or pursuing that at all. So who explained the tears to you and what they really meant? What happened? Who's going what? I said, who explained the tears to you?

Like, who explained? And let you know you're doing a good job. Yeah, because at the end of the day, you know, you still do that. So, but it's a good thing. So. They weren't saying anything to me. You know, they weren't saying a whole lot to my cousins that was falling out. You know, they would have their experience and falling out.

But they didn't explain their reaction or their connection to what we were saying. Probably the only one that did that was my. cousin who was kind of like my music teacher, you know. You know, Denise, there's, if the altos are not strong enough or the second soprano, first apparel, just fill in the hole, you know, just wherever the weakest artist. Oh, no, Denise. I mean, did anybody ever explain to you that those tears meant so much more, you know,

or you have a gift. Yes, because to this day, those songs, like your songs, I was listening today, just remembering tearing up. So that's a thing. Yeah. Yeah. But they never said anything. They would just, you know, got critical when I did the R&B song.

You know, that was the first time. I think you. He really expressed, you know, their thoughts about my talents. And my cousins who had people falling out, you know, they were the big, big cheese. They were the big people. And, you know, the pastor's children. And so they were the big folks in the church. And so I never thought I had it.

So I thought I'd better go to school. be a nurse. So that's the reason why I went to Baltimore. Like I said, I don't remember one professor's name, Professor Diggs, and that was because she had gone to Africa and had all this fabulous jewelry, you know, from Africa. And I remember her. I don't remember the rest of it except being in the cage. Wow. Man. I love the storytelling. Well, first of all, was that your first, like, true professional experience, singing background, or with the national artist that I mean, with Stevie Wonder? He was the very first. Well, no, let me back up. When I did the local song, I was asked to sing at the Masonic Temple on this show with Jerry Butler. And then I was asked if I would, you know,

sing let it be me with him because I think he sang with a partner with Brinda Lee Russell I think Yeah yeah so I sang let it be me With with Jerry Butler and I was like Oh gosh I thought I had died and gone to heaven You know because I loved his voice He was huge in those days in the Chicago area

And you know all over with music And so that was my first time singing with a professional person. But the second time would be with Stevie Wonder. So what led you to that journey? I had a cousin, John Harris, and when John's grandmother and my grandmother were sisters, but John lived in Detroit.

So the first time John came, oh, Lord Jesus, I fell in love with that black man. He had conch hair. He was, you know, he had that conch. He had that con. in his hair girl. Like, okay. And so he would come.

So my sister said, don't even think about it. That's your cousin. That's blood. Y'all get together. You're going to have idiot children. You know what I mean? That's real. So John would come in, you know, every summer for one week.

And so he's from Detroit. So he kept telling me, telling us, you know, I work for Stevie Wonder. I said, boy, Pinocchio, your nose is growing. don't know Stevie Wonder. Everybody in Detroit said they know Stevie Wonder. And he told me that for like three years that he knew and was working with Stevie Wonder. So when I went to school in Baltimore, he called me, he said, okay, Stevie's doing a concert in Baltimore, and I'm going to give you a backstage pass. And so I went to the concert. He introduced me to Stevie. I first met him when I was 18. And he introduced me to Stevie. So I was apologizing to John. I'm so sorry. I'm

So anyway, that's how I first met Steve. Do you know I let him drive my car with his blind stuff? Yo, it's like a whole long list of people who let him do this. Why is he? We can do a compilation on the amount of time Stevie Wonder has driven someone's car. I don't know. I can get y'all. My light flash in front of my eyes and he is too.

But anyway. So you were in the car while you weren't just letting him drive it. You were riding with him. Got around with him. I was going to my foot on the break. Oh. You're a brave son. I love Jesus, but I wasn't trying to see him that day.

Facts. No. No. So anyhow, about two years after that, John called me. He said, hey, what you doing? And I said, man, I had to leave school because that science was kicking my butt. I said, I don't know what I'd do with myself, but I, you know, I can't handle the science. He said, well, you want me to get you an audition with Stevie.

I said, there you go. There you go. He said, no, Denise, he said, you know, he's auditioning for singers. And if you want to, I'll get him to give you a ticket to come to Detroit. And you can, you know, audition. And that's what happened. I went in. There was about 20 of us. And I was one of the three that he chose for Wonderlove.

I mean, I consider the core you. Jim Gilstrap, was he? Jim was there in my first game aboard. Wow. Okay. I never saw Wonder Love with a male singer. Okay. That's dope.

Lonnie Gross was there. Jim and Lonnie Gros was there when I joined. And then Shirley came a little bit after me. Okay. So she was a great also, but before the Supreme. They came after two, after Lonnie left. Yeah. That's Jim singing, if I'm not mistaken.

Is that Jim singing the first verse of Y'all of Sunshine of My Life? Is that him? Yeah. Yeah. That's some gillsrap. Yeah. He's also the male voice on Good Times. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Wow. You need a baby. Oh, yeah. Wow. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations

with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life,

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place.

that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point

where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I got to tell the story since we mentioned, Jim. His singing partner on that is another artist that was on Motown that Stevie was managing at the time named Blinky. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. And.

Her voice. Oh, you know, okay. But there's one scene in Summer of Soul that I had to leave out. Blinky was like a performer on that. on the festival and they were doing a cover of Light My Fire. And, you know, these are union musicians, not like people that are familiar with the music. And a gust of wind came and blew the music sheet off of their stands. So it's one of the most hilarious moments of them not knowing how to end the song.

So they keep playing in a round circle. And it's the greatest car crash I ever heard in my life. of her trying to end the song, but, you know, it couldn't happen. But I always wanted to know, like, was Blinky one of his background singers or just? I never heard that she was one of his background singers. I know her as a singer and as an artist, a recording artist, but I never heard that she was actually one of the females. So she wasn't in Wonderlo?

Okay. Yeah. He managed her, or at least according to the contracts that we had. was one of her managers, but her and Yvonne Fair were under him. But, okay, I always wanted to know about the other singers that were in the stable and if they were Wonderlove members or whatnot. Can we ask for a quick? Can you talk about that experience?

It's about to ask the audition. I was like, what was that like? Yeah, what's that experience like? That was scary because, you know, some of them showed up with their piano player and they had music. They wanted this thing. I just showed up. And just watching everybody, you know, in their professional audition, I was sitting there saying, oh, God, oh, God.

I don't know why I came. So then he called me up, and I started to cry. I said, I don't know what to sing. I don't know what to do. So he started playing Teach Me Tonight. And then I would, you know, sing along with him when I learned and I'd, you know, do some riffs or something would teach me tonight. And then all of us at the very end, you know,

it had split up into four-part harmony. And we all ended with singing, Teach Me Tonight. And that was my audition. I was not prepared. I was not ready. But he saw something. I see. All right.

That makes sense. For our listeners who don't know, everyone in that band was a legend. I mean, from drummer Ali Brown to, of course, we know Ray Parker Jr., Michael Sembello. She's a lady. Yeah, yeah. Michael Simba, all those people.

But even like, so just in general, like I always thought of Wonderlove as an army. What was it like for you? How was your experience in touring with that unit? Well, I was scared, so it was difficult. But I came in, Dave Sandbar was on saxophone. The Brecker brothers were playing with Stevie. That's right. Yes, they were.

Yeah. They were. and the Brecker brothers were there. So there was a lot of incredible musicians that came through Stevie's stable. It was hard for me in the beginning because when I actually came, by the time I did the audition,

I had one son. You know, I had been married and I had had a son. So me trying to balance motherhood and balance the professional business of the recording industry, was really tough, but he really worked with me because, you know, I'd be singing and one of the girlfriends would be standing on the side with the baby, you know. Right.

So, you know, he really worked and was hard because I was the only one that was a parent. Nobody else had any children, so they weren't leading that double life of, you know, having this profession and touring, but still having to raise, you know, my child. And I think by the second year, I was with him, I had another. baby, you know, so it was, you know, it wasn't easy. I was scared. You know, the very first concert I did with him, somebody said we were going to be doing in Philadelphia. And I remember it was a club in a king of pressure Philadelphia. I saw the Philadelphia from outside the hotel, you know, said Philly that way. We were in King of Pressure. But, you know, it was just me.

I know it well. A difficult thing for me was balancing a career and being a mother. It's 1972. Mm-hmm. You know, because I think in everyone's mind, especially by the 70s, it's like, oh, you're on television. You must be a millionaire. Oh, my God. They're on Sesame Street.

They've got to be rich. So what's singing with one of the premier acts of his era? Was that a good living back in 1972? I think it was an okay living. You know, we made it work. But no, Steve was making the money. And, you know, we were getting our salary. That was, you know, was okay, but it wasn't great.

The thing that really helped me is that my mom left Indiana and moved out to California. So she was helping with the kids and we were living together. So that was a great help to me that my mom decided, you know, I want you to have this career and I don't want you to be, you know, so concerned about the boys. And actually it had not been from my mom coming out. I couldn't have trusted my children to anybody else. She put that off of me. And collectively, you know, we did okay. Was it, you know, was I rich or let no, you know.

Okay. But, you know, we made it work. You know, definitely we made it work. So in being in Wonderlove, one of the requirements was, well, not requirements, but you felt it was wise for you to move to Los Angeles as opposed to just going north to New York or? Initially, in the beginning, we did go to New York. But then after being there for a couple of months, Stevie decided to move to Los Angeles. And so we went to L.A. And did this also include session work as well?

Like, what notable songs are you singing background on? I didn't do a lot of session work with him. I started doing a lot of session work when I left him, you know. So, you know, I sang quite a bit with Roberta Flack, who then eventually hired me, Lonnie Gros and Patty Austin to travel her with her as background singers. It was the three. What was that? Right.

I think I'm on, that's the time. I feel like making love. Yes. Roberta Flack, you know. So, but when I was with Stevie, I didn't do a whole lot of background work. You know, I was on a retainer. I was on a salary. And I felt a responsibility to stay there and sing with him and not go out and do a lot of stuff.

But the minute I stepped the way, I was doing quite a bit. Okay. Who else was poaching you at the time when you were in Wonderlove to come sing with me? Well, I had a real frightening experience with Ike Turner, you know, Wow. I tried to talk to me. He had me speaking in tongues up in there. I tell you, Jesus, I got to go.

And Kenny Gamble and, you know, Philadelphia heard me singing, and they approach me. And I said, you know, that's okay. Because Kenny Gamble's had like a chair that sat like a throne. Yes. And he's sitting up high. And he had you sitting down. And I thought, I don't think I like this too much. So I said, no, thank you.

you know. Based on the aesthetics of his positioning of sitting. I'm mad. I get it. I'll sit on the floor from now on.

Tell me to go up in there and I wasn't going. I was scared. And he was saying, I don't think it's just for you, Denise. And I think I agree. And it's not.

Bye. So wait, can you tell us, what's the words? Did I say words to you that made you go, or was it? I wanted to know

what I wanted to do and what I wanted to do with my career and where, you know, I think I wanted to go. And I said, I think I'm going to stay right there with Wonderloeff right now. And thank you so much for considering and talking to me.

Thank you. You're good for taking to me. Yeah, I think you made the right decision. I should note that, you know, in 72, one of the more unusual pairings, again, even as unusual pairings go, like for those that have seen, you know, Bill Graham's lineups, like it was very typical for you to see, like, Miles Davis in the Grateful Dead one night or like Jimmy Hendrickson, you know, like some other act that's the opposite of him. But you guys happen to be on tour. And, you know, for those

that follow the history of the Rolling Stones, it should probably be noted that perhaps their 1972 tour documented very well in a yet unseen documented. called Cock Sucker Blues was really like one of the first sort of ganders into what we now think like debauchery rock life was, you know, the idea of private airplanes and groupies on the road and just at least at least the half hour of that documentary that I saw. Can you talk about and I'm mainly asking this because, you you know, 10 years later, they'll try the same thing, but Prince and the experience was not good for Prince, where, you know, he was famously booed off stage. But at the time when Stevie Wonder is being asked to tour with the Rolling Stones, was there any trepidation at all, like, okay, what do they want with the soul act

and how do we, like, what was the audience response night after night to Stevie Wonder, who had yet to really prove, himself as an adult artist. Well, they absolutely loved him. I mean, Stevie got, during that particular tour, he got, you know, mad reception from the audience. And I think that, you know, that's what really blew him up when he opened for the Rowley Stones, who was, were renowned and well, you know, known and the music well known.

So that opened up the door, a giant door for Stevie to be there with them. And the reception was, you know, was really, He did very well. So you guys weren't pelted with any tomatoes or any of those things. Are you familiar with the Prince story at all? No. Yeah, so, you know, Mick Jagger is a fan of dirty mining controversy and asked Prince to open up for the Rolling Stones.

And about one song in just, you know, the first time was this merciless booze and some Jack Daniels bottles. But the next day, they came armed with. like, you know, chicken and watermelon and... Oh, my God. So it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't, which is weird. Considering that it's Los Angeles, you would think, like, Los Angeles is way harder to please than New York City was, but...

You can't do that to a blind man now. You can't be throwing on. You can't be doing it. No, I didn't know that that happened to him. But, you know, we were fine. I think the thing that terrified me, especially as a... Little church girl is the drugs that were circulating, they had their own doctor on the road with them to keep them pumped up.

And it's like, ooh, Jesus. So, you know. We haven't had an artist on here that has been on a tour of that magnitude. So what can you describe, you know, I mean, we have a, I mean, we can imagine like what it's like on a wild crazy tour. But can you just generally describe what you saw, like, During that time period? Well, you know, it was really funny.

What usually happened with me on those tours, and it started with that tour, is all the roadies really liked me. And they would say, you know, you want some hashy? You want, you know, we got Coke, we got that. And I'll say, not in Jesus, no in Jesus' name, I want none of that. Real quick that I'm not going to be bothered with none of that. You can't have no coochie and bye-bye.

I think by your memory. I had to play the Jesus card, you know, because once I went to preaching and talking about Jesus, they would back up like, oh, yeah, she really, she's cute, little girl, you know, but she's not going to do nothing, you know, but they, you know, they would offer me, who, we got this and they walk up with the roll stuff or walk over stuff, and I said, no, no, God don't like that. So I, you know, I played the Christian card, and after a while, they, would see that I wasn't interested, so they would leave me alone. But I remember one night, for some reason, I got caught coming out late, and we were supposed to come out and get on the bus. And for some reason, I don't know why I got disconnected from the group. And so I went out, the crowd outside was crazy. It was in Chicago, and they were throwing tear, the police were throwing tear gas.

And so I got caught up in that. I did see my bus, and I hopped on. I got on it, but I did the tear gas thing and had gotten my eyes. So that was probably one of the worst experiences I had with them, except for the after party at the Playboy Mansion in Chicago when it took me a long time to get out of there because I couldn't find a dough. I love you so much, Denise. I just find a door, girl. I just wonder how long you was in there trying to find the door and all the I was in at least 45 minutes.

I even went, I was in one room. I walked down the hall, and there was nothing in the room but a hole and a pole. So I thought maybe if I go down the pole, I'll find a door. So I went down the pole. Wait, what? So you're sliding down like a pole, like a fireman's pole? Listen, I'm trying to be out. Down means out.

Go ahead and slid down the pole. Yeah, I was trying to get out of there. The first of the last time you slid down a pole. Last first and the last. I said, Lord Jesus, if you get me out of here, you don't have to never worry about me coming up in here again. Wow, okay. I'm so ready to this stuff.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up

through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. of, you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be... Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Wait a minute, wait, wait a minute. I would like to get her version of this story. Now, you know, your fellow Wonderloving, Ray Parker Jr., kind of gave a very ambivaling. a very ambiguous hint. Wouldn't totally confirm it. We also, I mean, this is way before Greg Villain Gaines

this time, but I need to ask. Okay, so the week that Intervisions gets released, you guys are booked somewhere in North Carolina. Stevie Wonder is in an accident. What is your version of what happened? I believe our cousin, what I remember is that my cousin John was driving. They were in the car and John fell asleep.

Your cousin was the driver? I believe John was, yeah. Oh, okay. All these QMSs are really tied together. Yeah, yeah. Wow, okay. I wasn't even ready for that. I sort of had the feeling that they were trying,

Ray was trying to allude to me that this is one of the, those moments where Stevie insisted on driving or whatever. And so I don't think then he was driving. If I remember it correctly, my cousin John was driving. And he not, he fell asleep or something like that. That's my recollection of the story. Doesn't make it true. But that's what I heard and I have always thought happened.

Because I was too young to remember and only heard about it in sort of like retrospect, was there, were you guys, basically like, well, he won't make it. Because I remember, Stevie was in a coma for at least a month or so, correct? I didn't know it was a month or so, but I know he was badly injured. Yeah. He was out of it for a while. But, okay, so in your mind, is it like he may make it, he may not make it?

Like, what's going through the mind of the band, at least, in terms of... We didn't know exactly if he was going to make it or not. You know, we didn't know what was happening after that. but you know you just pray and hope for the best and then he did come out of it you know so and i was grateful for that even for his sake for john's sake for feeling so guilty and so bad about to carry that load so for him to come out of it and and it accomplished the things he accomplished really helped the spirit and the heart of john all right so i i also know that you're one of the last people to work with the great Charles Stephanie,

whom, you know, for our QLS listeners, really, I mean, his just-Rotor connection. Yeah. Anything on cadet records, the... Ramsey Lewis. Ramsey Lewis, the 70s output of the Dells, you know, even some of the blues artists, like, you know, with Muddy Waters. his record and the Electric Mud album and many Ripertons come to my garden album but you know most

notably his he's the one that really took earthwind and fire and was a mentor to maurice white so a big part of that earthwind and fire sound that we're so in love with you know is due to the the colors that charles stepney uh painted knowing nothing about him really could you describe what charles stepney was in your world and just in general for just that whole organization? Well, Charles Stephanie, like you said, brought a color and a style to Earth, When and Fire that was really the most beautiful collaboration in their music as far as I'm concerned. Charles Stephanie was just brilliant. When I was doing a song call on my first project, if you don't believe, and he just lifted up

the top of the piano, he took a guitar pick and just strum on the strings. And that's what you hear in the very beginning of if you don't believe. He and Oscar Brasheur on trumpet. And he's just taking a guitar pick and strumming on those strings. I don't know who else would have thought of that. The way he heard my music, the way he heard my voice, even the way he heard Minnie Ripperton's voice and what he did. with the rotary connection and with many.

The way he, you know, Charles Stephanie was just a brilliant producer and arranger. And you can tell how the music changed and how he was missed after Charles passed away. The sound of Earth, Wind and Fire changed. It didn't change in a bad way, but it changed in a different way. You've now got a whole different sound than the sound that Charles Stephanie he created with That's the Way of the World and those, you know, those songs. It, he, it was, that whole flavor, that whole feel, that whole touch was gone. He was very, very, very, very powerful.

I played us such a big role in my music, the emotions music, Earthwind and Fire's music, many were in a rotary connection. There's just nobody like him. I know that Maurice went with another arranger and he was very, very, very, very good. Tom Tom, Tom, 84. And Charles Stephanie had two very, very different sounds and approaches. And I believe that once Charles passed away, you could hear it. At the time, are you hoping that perhaps you could have your own career as a singer or maybe Wonderlove does a record? Because at the time, Stevie's doing the,

in the Sarita album he's also working with you know he does stuff with the Supremes he does stuff for the Marines he does stuff for boy and miracles yeah exactly so for you what was it about

whatever Maurice White was bringing to the table that made you to decide to go with that camp and how do you leave the Wonder Love camp and was it amicable

I don't think, no, it wasn't amicable. I think if you asked Ray Parker the same question, he probably said, no, it wasn't amicable. All right, so walk us through, how do you leave the situation? Well, for three years, I was with Steve for three, three and a half years, and for three years, he promised to do a project on Wonderlove, and it never happened.

We would be in the studio writing and, you know, rehearsing, and he never would record us. It was always one excuse after the other for him not to record us. Like you say, he was working with other artists, other artists, you know, that had careers already. He did something with the Jackson Five. You know, he was working with other artists,

but when it came to Wonderlove, he wasn't doing anything. And finally, we had a discussion about it, and he got, you know, upset that, I chose to confront him on this issue. And so I said, okay, I'm done. So what happened is one night when Wonder Love was performing, we would always perform one of our songs. And so this one night, they said,

let's do Denise's song free, which I had written when I was with Susay Green and Nathan Watts, when we were in Wonder Love, which was one of the songs that we were hoping to record us, Wonder Love. And so that night they said, we're, you know, let's do Denise's song. So I sang free that night. But what I didn't know is Marys White,

Philip Bailey, Verding, White, and their attorney was sitting on the front row. And they heard me singing free. So then the attorney came backstage. And he said, oh, we loved your performance. Who wrote that song? Whose song is that? I said, well, I wrote it with a couple of people in the band.

I said, but I got other songs too. And Philip can sing them because we got a same register. So that's how it happened. that Maurice White, Maurice and those guys heard me sing. And that's, you know, that's how I got introduced to them. It was while I was with Stevie. So I think another six, seven months went by. And Steve still wasn't doing anything.

So I left. And I left him. And I got, that's when I joined Roberta Flack with Lonnie Groves and Patty Austin. And while I was doing Roberta Flack, I got a call saying that Maurice wanted to meet with me. And I, you know, I had a meeting with them. And the seven songs that I sent hoping that Earth went and Fire would cover them. And Philip was singing is the seven songs that Morris wanted, decided to do my first project on. So that's how that happened.

I, you know, I just got, you know, a little tired of waiting on Steve to do what he kept telling us he would do it. And like even up like six months after I'd been there. And he, you know, he wasn't doing it. he did, he did, you know, Minnie Ripper Tins perfect. I was on, you know, Minnie's album, the Perfect Angel album, and he was doing all this stuff with other people, and I understand that, you know, they had record deals, they had money to pay him for his production.

I understood that, but I felt like we could at least record one song every other month or something to start getting the project together, and he was just really laxed in doing that. And, you know, I said, no. And especially when, you know, I made great money with Roberta Flack. And I will always be grateful to her because Wonder Love the girls, you know, we traveled with the band on the bus when we were singing with Roberta Flach. She said, no, no, no, you're right in the limousine with me.

And it was a whole different treatment. She taught me a lot about how to treat the people that you're on the stage with. That, you know, that is always carried with me because, like I said, the ladies, we were on the bus with the band and the equipment and stuff. And with her, we were riding the limousine. And then, you know, Maurice, we reached out. We had a meeting and I ended up recording with him. Songs in the Key of Life isn't even created yet.

Was there a slight regret, not regret, but, you know, songs in the Key of Life comes out. And of course, this is Stevie's magnum opus. Like, even at that time period, did you have any sort of worries and trepidation? Like, ah, we might have jumped the ship to you early because this is a project that sets him off in the stratosphere? Or was it just like, okay, I'm out here on my own. Let's just, no regrets. Let's go for it.

I wasn't on my own. I was with Earth went and Fire. Well. And I was with Roberta Flack, you know, two green. groups who I respected and who were interested in working with me, you know. So I did not feel like I was on my own. I was very happy for him and I was more happy to be a part of that whole situation.

I mean, I have... Oh, we can see your hardware in the back. Oh, we love it. I got him up here somewhere because he gave me a plaque, you know, for being on the project. But in my heart and in my spirit, I felt it was time to go. I did not feel that there was any room to grow. I just felt like, you know, we're going to be here for the next 20 years.

In fact, he has a band member that I was in a band with. Nathan Watts is still there in his time 35 years. I was going to say Nathan is still his bass player. He's still with him. And that could have been, you know, any of us if we had decided to stay. and I had babies and feet. I had mouth to feed. I didn't have time to be sitting there.

Those job lessons right there. You're supposed to give it, what, two, three years? And if you know, it ain't no movement, then you got to live. On that third year, it finally dawned on me. This could go on for a while, and I really didn't want to be there another three years or so years. And he still not do, you know, for wonder love, what he was doing for other people. But like I say, you know, looking at it, you know, he was. being paid to produce. They had record labels. They had budgets. And, you know, he would have to do for us.

So, no, I didn't feel alone. I mean, especially when I jumped over there with earthwind and fire, there was nowhere to feel alone. And of course, Phila Bailey and I became very, very, very close friends, you know, for that time. That was my buddy. So were you, were you opening for them at the time when you went to their camp? I did. I was the opening act. I would trade off with. the emotions. I would, you know, do a couple of the tours. And then the emotion came on. And then they had both of us as opening acts for Earthland Empire. So what did it feel like the first time in which you're in charge now, where you're the artist and you have a band and all these things? Like, was it weird now having to have the heavy lifting and decisions be up to you as opposed

to getting an itinerary and see what the thing is. And how did that feel for you like that first few months? It was very scared, you know, because I've been in the background and now I was in the forefront. And they were literally pushing me out on stage. I didn't want to go. I was on back. They were backstage and they were talking, it's calling my name.

And I said, I don't think I can do this. I don't want to do this. I don't think I can do this. You know, and they'd be back there. You got to do it. Push, you know. I went out there. Right.

I mean, it was like maybe three, four years before I felt comfortable going out there, you know, but, you know, it's very different, like you said, when you're, you know, somebody is taking care of everything, booking your hotels, booking your flights, you know, everything is going through, you know, somebody else. And then all of a sudden you've got to do this. So you have people that are doing it, but still, you're, you know, you're the head person and you've got to talk them through us.

So it was very frightening. you know, for a while and very frightening because one of my first tours as a solo artist was with the Ohio players, them crazy folks. Wow. Goodness, great. You tour was Sugarfoot with Sugarfoot. What was that like? I was saying, okay, Jesus, okay, Jesus.

I mean, the boys were nuts. What were they doing? Yeah. One night and shook my hand and put his hotel. room key in my hand and say you know, I want to see you at midnight. So I ran to my road manager. Who, Sugarfoot?

Not him, but one of the other ones. Satch, Billy, Johnny. She ain't telling him. Which one it was. It was a player. It was a player. They were how he'll preach it.

Well, he put his letter and I would run it to my road manager who was Leonard Smith, who who was the big six-foot-eight guy in the show with Earth, went and fire to hit the gong. And he was out there on a row with me. I said, let her.

He said, don't worry about it. Give me the key. They ain't who would pay after that at all. That was it. He showed up at midnight. Come here, Pee-wee. He showed up at midnight. Yeah, I got your feet right here.

That was so funny. But the nice thing about the tour with them was that they had about 30 grand worth of lights and special lighting and stuff. And so all of the light guys, all of the little, you know, all the little roadies, they just loved me. So they said one night, they said, you know,

we don't use half of what we have. So we've been using it on you. I said, oh, you know, I was open. I've been using it on you. And then as I was out there with them, free kept climbing up the charts. And so they got mad at me. Oh, you was showing them up.

Yeah, because we were. Yeah. after. Yeah, it was your turn. You know, going up the charts and they were just doing all they love, you know, spending the 30 grand of light. They said, they're not using half of what we got.

So we didn't using them on you. I said, oh, thank you. Wow, love it. Okay. My favorite album of yours was your sophomore album, Songbird. That I believe that the single from that record was, Baby, My Love's All for You. Yeah.

In my mind, I always thought that was like a massive big hit. but what happened for that period in Songbird for you that didn't happen for the debut record? Because I thought that album was bigger. It was my favorite, so I thought it was bigger, but can you talk to me about what happened there? I think the main thing that happened there is that Charles Stephanie passed away

and the sound changed. Okay. Murray was turning down original material that I had written to bring in outside material. So I think that that was two of the biggest problems with the project is that he no longer wanted to hear my personal expression, and he brought in other people to write. And that Charles Stephanie had passed away, and we were now dealing with Tom Tom, 84, 88. And those were the things that I think, and I think people saw like, wait a minute, we heard this, and now you're doing this. And we needed another project like this is Nisi to solidify who it was.

And yet Maurice, not anything due to him, but it changed up. And people were scrambling to find out, who is she really? Because this is not what we heard the first time around. And then I was also fighting with Sony, I mean, Columbia. Because I did God is truly amazing. And they were saying, we're not praying her to sing gospel stuff. What is this God is amazing stuff? You know, and they were mad with me.

I said, listen, if we got 10 songs on a project, I'm going to give him one, get over it. And so we fought for the next couple of years about me doing gospel music on my secular project. So that was going on to. They were mad. And it was like, I don't. Was this the Walter Yetnikov period of Columbia? It was Walter and those guys, yeah. Very nice to me, though.

You know, I would go in there saying, Walt, I need another couple of hundred grand. What are you in here? But he would give it to me. So anyway, that was the bottom line. I didn't care how much he fussed. Go call Marvin down there illegal and send me my money. Baby needs shoes.

And he always gave me the money. So, you know, and no fields, no nothing. You know, get back up. Just write the check now. Oh. So that was still, that was prevalent. That was prevalent just throughout. Oh, yeah.

I love Watty and the coffee. He was very, very good to me. Bruce Lundval started and then Walter. They were always very, very good to me and very respectful. And I would say, you know, I'm praying for you. You know, so they said, oh, oh, there she go. But they were very not happy with me with doing the gospel stuff. That's crazy because of all your songs, I definitely remember that that made an impression on my household.

Like, God is truly amazing and all those things. And that's a thing now for R&B singers to do, to prove themselves on records now, putting the gospel record on. Had the gospel jam last. Did you feel the need to do that to sort of send a smoke signal back home to Gary, Indiana to the church? You know, I did it because of my love for Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. for me. I didn't do it for them. And at that time, I didn't really care about their opinion. But that's, you know, I was raised in a church and I felt like if people were going to have a total overview of me as an artist, I would have to do some gospel because that was a part of who I was.

And so that's why I did it. You know, I did it for me and to make a statement to God that, you know, I'm really grateful for what you're allowing. to happen in my life. And so I'm giving you this, you know, I'm dedicating this portion to you. But eventually you do return to Gary, Indiana. What is the response now that you're an established artist? Oh, very different.

And now I'm okay now, you know. Church people are- Well, no, no, I meant back in 77, 7677. Yeah, they're still acting a little funny, you know, because they still don't support or agree with what I'm doing. but it was funny. I came back around that time and I attended church with my two sons and my uncle decided to preach a whole sermon and to church that Sunday on how I was going to hell

because I had on makeup and being there a polish. And so I got up and my children were there. So I got up and I came back and, you know, I was crying. I told my mother about it. So my mother wrote a letter to them said, I heard what you guys did with my daughter and this is what I want to tell them. I heard you been burning up the mortgage papers because you didn't pay it off the church. My daughter paid for that church.

I want her money back with interest or shut the hell up. Oh. You what? The next time I went to church, my uncle said, amen, sister Denise is here. Switch that tune up quick. Good for you. I love it. She said, I want her money back with interest.

You over that burning the mortgage paper. If we know how you're burning them, that's the ties, she's been sending money. I said it. Didn't I say it, y'all? Didn't I say she be in the ties? You called it. You called it.

She said, I want the money back with interest. I shut the hell up. And did another word. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep. That's me, Cliver Taylor the fourth.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hip-hift. by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters

into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with them one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. and he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Your first number one single comes a year later in probably the most unusual way, but the song was inescapable when I was a kid. Could you talk about the decision to pair up with Johnny Mathis and just what that whole experience was like? And the irony that the second to last song on that record, in my opinion, winds up. up being even more popular than too much too little too late, which is, of course, the theme to family ties without us. Could you talk about that whole experience in doing that record? Well, it was wonderful. I was on the road opening off of Earth, When and Fire, but I got a call

for my manager and he was saying, you know, Johnny's considering doing a duet and your name has come up. What do you think? I said, oh my God, I would love to sing with him. I've been, you know, looking and singing along with him on television all these years. I would love to do that. And so, you know, they said, okay, Denise is willing to do it because they first went to my other, the artist on the label. They went to Barbara Streisand, and she said no. Oh, thank you, God. What? Yeah, she said no.

So then they came to me, you know, the second, strongest female artists on the label. Yeah. So it was funny. So when I told my mother, I was going to sing with Johnny Method, she told me, ooh, girl, I got to get my nails done. I want to go. And oh, yeah, I say, Mom, I'm not taking you up in there because you're going to be buckwile. I knew my mother, she was going to be buckwile. We want to go get no work now because she did that to me with Marvin Gay.

So I said, no, you just. Oh, wow. Hold up. Time out. Go back. Go back. And we'll introduce you to Johnny later, and I did. Wait, that's two stories.

Go back. Wait, what happened? Well, Marvin Gay's brother was performing at a club called the Trubador. And I wanted to see him. So we went down, I took my mom at the tripobdor, and we went down to see Frankie Singh. And so what happens is we're sitting in our seats, but then here come Marvin. He come walking in there. And my mom went off.

Oh, distant lover. Oh, love. Oh, man. Oh, come in here, honey. And she just went off with Marri Gay. And I put there like, excuse me. Johnny rode around. I want to take no chances right.

You'll meet him later, but you are not going to the studio. She didn't talk to me for a day or two, but she met him and it was all cool. Wow. That is hilarious. You're the best daughter ever. So in recording that record, though, and especially with the song, like, too much, too little too late, which, okay, yes, you're not the, the ilk of a tenor baritone gospel singer, you know, of the Mahalia, Aretha. First of all, you're a soprano. So even with your the voice that you have, what is your octave range? Like, are you able to also sing low as well? And you just

chose to sing singing your upper register or? I think I have a really nice low register that most people have not heard. But for some reason, when I was writing, I was just writing in those registers. So that's, you know, that's what I did. I never did write in the lower register or think in the lower register. And a lot of what you hear me do is my mom. I used to, you know, my mom was singing the shower and I'd be standing outside of the shower listening to her and, you know, all that stuff she did. You know, I got that from my, you know, I got that from my mom. She used to do. So, I think a lot of what you hear is me mimicking her, and she did not sing. I didn't hear her a lot in the lower register, but I do have a really nice warm lower register.

So that said because, you know, if I were of age of then, I wouldn't have been able to call that particular duet, simply because I don't know Johnny as a belter or a belter. an ad lipper and that sort of thing. And of course, you know, when you get to the end of that song, I mean, you're just, you're singing, you're not singing circles around him, but, you know, the way that your ad libs are, you're just, I mean, it's near Jordan levels of display.

Like, he's the, the, the, the, sort of like, I'm not trying to compare to Abbot and Costello, like there's the straight man and then there's the punchline person, but. Seinfeld and everybody is. Do you guys discuss how you're going to do this? Are you singing together at the same time? Is it like I'll sing my part first

and then you come in at your parts later and then I'll readjust it? Like for that album, are you singing, is it together in person or how do you handle that? Well, we would listen to the song and the song would go down and then John felt comfortable with me telling him a little bit of how to sing

because he said I've never sang with anybody before. and you sang with Stevie and Roberta so you know, you know, those kind of nuances. So basically we would run the song down and I say, I'm going to sing this. You know, I'll sing this line and you sing that line. So basically he was the straight person and I would just kind of, you know, go around what he was doing and try to add some more color to it.

And it was fun because when we did that, we complimented each other. We aren't running all over each other. or not doing anything exciting, which is, you know, it kind of worked out like that for me to do more of the coloring than die. He drew, he was the lines and you kind of colored. That's kind of, yeah. Yeah. With the massive success of that song,

was there never a discussion to have a follow-up record as well? No. Well, you know, we wanted to do stuff, but really his managers were really scared of me, because, you know, I'm black woman and I'm talking about to do. And he started listening. And so I think that they came to conclusion, we need to get her on out of there. So they did. Seriously, they just won and done?

Well, because Johnny, you know, started really listening to me. And I'm a strong, independent woman. And that's not his personality. And so after, you know, talking with him and hanging out with him, him a couple of times. They said she's a little bit too much of an influence over him. So the thing is, is that I can't, you know, Philip talked about it a little bit, but, you know, he didn't really go into it.

But, of course, like the second big producer that comes into the Earthwind fire stratosphere is David Foster. And, you know, like our listeners know that David, you know, did, like, wow. flower. Right. Everything. Yeah, but mostly just as a soul guy, like, did, like, new birth and all that stuff. And, of course, even though Earth, Wind and Fire was able to coast to a fine level with the all-and-all record with Maris at the helm, of course, David Foster comes aboard.

And it's always been controversial with David Foster. I think in real time, people were sort of grumbling about David Foster's production. and of course, now the decades have gone by, everyone's like, oh, I always loved after the love is going and all those things. But I know that Foster worked on the When Lovecom's Calling Record. And I'm not certain what the chart position was of I got the next dance. I remember hearing a lot on Black Radio in Philadelphia.

What was your experience or your feeling about the When Love Come Calling record because I know that sounded very radically different. Yeah. Than the first two albums produced by Maurice and Charles. But for when Lev comes calling, who decided to really change it up? Well, Morris was working with David. And so then they said, well, let's put Denise with David. But it was not a good pairing for me and David to work together.

first of all he was very condescending producer to artists and he said something to me one day and I took the headphones off and I came in I said you know what? We will not work together if you do that again. I said I don't even want to go there. I said you will not try that with me. I don't know who you talk to like that but you won't be talking to me like that.

I said we will not be doing this. I said you're going to respect me like you want me to respect you. And if you can't do that, then you need to walk out of here now because I am not having it. So I left the studio, I told Maris, I said, if he don't turn his attitude around, it's not going to work with he and I. And the very next day, he was married to this girl from Alabama. And she said, I just want to, you know, apologize. Well, what happened yesterday? And I brought up, you know, a surprise for, you know, something for you. And she set the plate down and flipped it over. It was frat. Because I understand. you guys like fried chicken.

Bitch. I'm sorry. What? Oh, no. Oh, God. Wait a minute. Half of me like, as soon as she said Alabama,

I knew I said, yeah, it's not going to win well. I said, no. But was it good, though? No, I shut up a mirror. I told David, I said, baby, y'all about to get you. Yeah, I don't even want to say.

You didn't get the wrong one. It's hurt up in him. Okay. Somebody's going to get him. So we didn't work out. To this very day, David is scared of me, and I like people. So it's not watered under the bridge at all? No.

And you did not bite into that chicken, correct? No, I mean, none of that. Hell no. I went to that chicken. She could have, you know. Why you call me out? Wait, we, they hurt. We already.

Why are you? We called me out like, yeah. We wasn't. It was a good, though. That's not my kryptonite. Chicken is not my kryptonite. I wasn't caught you out. I was just answering your question.

I don't care if it's Popeye himself. No, I'm not eating that chicken. I wasn't. I was just getting your question answered. That's all. Was it good, though? I'm sorry. You didn't eat it.

However, I will gladly skip, even though I was a, you know, again, I think when you're younger, you take everything in. And, you know, I love that record, even though I didn't realize. Yeah. You didn't have any idea of the vaccine. Right. However, you came to my hometown and actually my home studio of Sigma to work on your next few records. With Tom Bell. Did Tom Bell and what's her name?

Linda Crete. Yeah, Linda Crete. At the time, did they stop working together by this period? They stopped working together because Linda Creed became very ill with cancer. I don't know. And that's what she passed away from. So Linda Creed wasn't well. But also I started writing with Tom Bell, Tom Bell, and I started writing because he wasn't writing with Linda.

And so, you know, that's what happened. The only songs that we didn't write together was I remember sitting in, we used to cook before we would record or work on a song. And so I told Tom, you know, I've been, I've been walking around my house for 20-some odd years singing this song. I really like to sing it again. I said, I love this song. He said, what is that? I said, I love is going to take a miracle by the world less. I said, and he got left the kitchen, went on the piano, started playing it. And then, you know, we recorded it. And it was, what, like a top five pop kit for me. It's going to take a miracle. And so, but the songs that I did with Tom Bell,

we wrote together or either I wrote them and, you know, that kind of thing. I know you also work with the legendary Clarence McDonald, who his, I know that's silly. You did silly with Clarence McDonald. And his resume is out of this world. Like, how did that come about? Actually, Lonnie Gros was dating Clarison McDonald at that time. And we were wonderful about.

And she said, oh, I'm, you know, dating this guy. And he's doing a lot of sessions. She's doing a lot of stuff. And so we started going out, going over to Clarence's house, and we started writing. And that's how, you know, a couple of the big songs, especially on the first and second album came about. During your time working in the Earth, Wind of Fire Camp, did you have any dealings with Skip Scarborough? I did. What was he like?

He's one of my favorite songwriters. Skip was just an incredible, loving guy, very soft spirit. We went to the same church. You know, he was just a genius. Just a genius. Absolutely. You know, don't ask my neighbor and all those songs that Skip. All ballet.

You know, it's just incredible working with Skip Scarborough. You're right. He was very special. Of course, he did two albums with Tom Bell. And that's also like your last record with the ARC organization with Maurice White. what happened like did the label just disintegrate or

and I'm only asking because like again that that giant logo on the record was no longer on your records. Yeah the ARC logo wasn't there so when I saw the I'm so proud record I was like oh that's it

and no more so how did how did that happen? Well Maris became And, you know, Morris and Columbia records started having a following out differences of where they wanted to go. So then Morris County said, we're leaving and, you know, just know that everything's going to be right. You're going to go with us. And they actually started talking to RCA.

And at that time, you know, I hadn't had any relationship with Columbia or anything outside of, you know, going in and talking to Walter. I would talk to Walter. So we did have a relationship. let me back up. But I went into Walter and I said, listen, what's going to happen? I said, ARC is leaving and what do I do? He says, oh, don't worry about it. He says out of, you know, everybody on the label with ARC, you're the only one that we're keeping. And I was the only act at Columbia account. Oh, man. Okay. Well, of course, your next collaborator, your most consistent collaborator, in my opinion, is the work with George Duke.

Oh, I miss it. Yeah, could you talk about working with him and just what it was like? Oh, I tell you, George Duke was one of them. It was an incredible genius. I mean, you could put George in any music genre, and it would come off incredible. I mean, you know, with Zappa, Frank, you know, Frank Zappa, you know, Stanley Clark, all that stuff that George did. But, you know, he could do classical. He could do gospel. He could do R&B. He could do pop. George could do anything. And the thing that was most incredible about him is he was just a

big teddy bear. He was a big teddy bear. I mean, I just, as a person, I loved him. I loved his wife, Corrine. And like I said, I missed him so much. I still can't even walk, drive by their street without Terry. That's how much I miss him. But it was funny because we were in the studio and we were recording Black Butterfly. And then we get this call and they said, oh, you know, they said, we're doing a soundtrack to a movie and there's one song left and we want to know if Denise want to do it. So I said, yeah, I want to do it. So they said, okay, here's, you go over to the songwriters and they're going to play you the song. So we go over there, Dean Pitchfield and Tom Snow on the player, and they sing a less here for the boy.

And they gave us a tape. We walked out of there and George Duke said, we ain't doing that song. I said, come on. I said, George, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I said, it's in a movie. I said, you know, he said, we're not doing that song. I'm going to tell you right now.

We're not doing that stupid song. I said, George. I just read an article. They say I'm a great ballater, you know, of our times. I said, I can do uptempo like that. Yes, you can. And he said, I hate that song. And so, you know, I tell him my show, I said, you know, the man is the head,

but the woman is the neck. And she can turn that head any way she wants it. Yes. I stopped talking to George and I went to his wife, Corrine. I said, Corrine, who's going to do that song with me? And I need your help. She said, girl, don't worry about it. I'll handle it.

So a week later, we was in the studio. The joy is mad as hell, but we was in the studio recording less here for this. Listen. And how do you feel when it went to number one? You know what I'm saying? And then when we did the unsonged, they did this unsung. on me and George is on that. I still don't like that song.

So I said, you know what? Then give me your producers royalty. I'll take all right. I'm going to tell you, every little girl like me was like, that's the jam. I had that on a 45. I had that. I had that on the 45. I just love that.

Give me your money since you feel like that. It's because I also tell them in my show, I said one night I was at this club in Los Angeles and I was singing. And I, before, let's see. here for the boy, I always asked the good man to raise their hand. And so this guy in the corner of the dark raised his hand, but I couldn't see him because the lights was in my eye. So I looked up, I said, put your hand down. You're not a good man. And so I was the concert. My son Forrest walked to me, said, Mom, do you know who you told to put their hand down? They weren't a good man. I said,

no, the lights in my eye. I can't see. He said, that was Bobby Brown. Oh, wow. I said, that wasn't me. That was the holy ghost. I had dinner with Bobby and his wife about two months ago. I apologize. I said, Bobby, I'm sorry. He said, no, I'm okay. He was like, you were right. You was right?

I will say that to me, Black Butterfly is one of my favorite all-time songs of yours, more than free, more than any of those songs. I heard that song at every, like, any kind of black. pageant like any kind of like graduation for like you know that was the female Luther song for only one one night is what the guys would say in back butterfly was what the women were saying for real for real what happened was somebody has sent the song to George and and George played it for me and the artist who's a well-known artist and I'm not gonna name was singing it was all over the place I told George, take him off, take him off, and let me live with it. And I loved it

because it spoke about the trials and the tribulations and what it took for us to, you know, to get here, our belief, our strength, and tell your sons and daughters passing that message on. And I said, you know, I didn't write it, but I have to sing it. And for me to be nominated on the top 10 list of songs that Black Life Matters has been, um, playing and, you know, promoting with their thing. That Black Butterfly was on that list really touched my heart, you know, because you do work, but you never know what's going to happen or how are you going to impact people.

So that was a blessing for me. Wikipedia says Barry Mann and Cynthia Will. It's a while. Yeah, wow in 1982. Yeah. What's your training like? Like, are you a student of Seth Riggs? Like, how do you train your voice?

How do you, you know, does it, if you get easily hoarse, you know, is it the Aretha Franklin thing where you have to have the air off in the room in order to sing and open your trachea to hit these notes? Like, what's your regiment? God. I mean... There you go.

You know, I don't do anything special. I do warm up. God is amazing was actually my exercise vocal. that I used to do before I actually wrote the song to open up my vocals. But I just have to blame it on the Lord because, you know, just, I mean, what I am saying in about a month. And yet, you know, they just happened.

Right. But do you also like not smoke or you don't do the dairy? Like do you do that stuff? No, I don't smoke anything. You know, I try to be cool, you know, in the clubs. with a rummed coke and a cool cigarette. But then when I found out that this was going to be how I was making my living and taking care of my children, I stopped that.

I said, no more. I don't smoke. You know, I don't do any of that. Anything that would interfere with my throat. I did hookah one time and she said, okay, you keep doing that and see if I cooperate with you. So I'm very particular, you know, no, I don't want to do anything that would interfere with the gift God has given me.

I know that you had switch labels that your gospel output was not on Columbia at all. You mean at no point did they just think, like, yeah, this makes sense. Let's let her do a gospel record. Like, why did your gospel stuff come out on? I think it was word records, I believe? No, I was with Sparrow. Sparrow, yes. Philip and I went to Columbia to Gleather and asked them to give us a half a million dollars to start a gospel label for Columbia.

And they said, no. So right as they said, no, let's hear it for the boy, you know, was number one. And my contract ran out. So I said, okay, this is it. I'm coming back. I'll re-sign. But I want to do gospel music somewhere absente. And they agreed.

So I ended up on Sparrow and Philip ended up. on work. Wow. Okay. That's just, and even with your Grammy success with gospel and whatnot, like they still didn't double back and just say like, you know what, our bad. Let's do, let's do something. No, what they did is they gave this other guy, six million dollars to start a gospel label, and he spent it on Arabian horses in Nashville. And they come calling up fussing with me. I said, no, no, no, no, no. You wouldn't get him that $6 million. I only asked you for half a million.

So now don't call me. God bless you. Bye, bye. Hmm. I had to fast forward and see when Columbia got, like, deep in the gospel. I guess they did Malia Jackson. But I was like, man, okay, so Mary, Mary and La Cray, they got the message. They finally come down and they got the message.

All right. So with where you are now, especially, well, you see. that you haven't sang in a month. So is this the first extended break? Like, because a lot of us, post-pandemic kind of had a complete world stop to sort of regroup for the first time in our lives. For you, was that like the first extended break that you took when the pandemic started as far as not doing like a lot of gigs and whatnot and just relaxing? Like, how did you spend your 2020 when it occurred. Well, I've been working on produce, I'm co-producing a theater piece called Live at the crescendo club with Elephist Gerald, Saravon, and Pearl Bailey. So I really sank a lot of time into

you know, working on the theater piece. We hired our director. We hired our writer. We hired our music supervisor. We hired a theater company. So we've been working on that for the past two years almost on that particular theater piece and going through music for these three ladies. So I, you know, I've been doing that and I'm, you know, keeping my chops up for a lot of reason I'm still touring, but I'm also hoping to be able to do the role of Saravan, especially in the beginning. I want to do the Paramount stuff. So, you know, I've been doing what I can to keep my chops up for that because, you know,

I don't want to do anything that would embarrass this incredible. beautiful vocalists. You know, for Elephist Jeryl, my, my wish list would be Patty Arson. We'll see what happens. And for Pearl Bailey, my wish list would be Loretta Devon. So we'll see what potentially

happen, but that's what I've been working on with that live at the crescendo club. And then with my other son, we have a children's cartoon that we've been working on. And we have a distribution deal with Roku. So we're working now.

and filming episodes for Lizzie, the Lake Monster, which is our children's program. And then my other son and I started our own coffee company. So we have a coffee shop. So we're doing coffee, the culture coffee company. We're working on that. You said you have a shop? We have an actual shop, and the girls got on hot to tops and a little short pants and stuff. Yeah.

Is this a Nevada or is it where's the shop? In Las Vegas, we go off at our first store. So we are, you know, we're doing that. And then I'm beginning to get back into, you know, getting back on Facebook, getting back on my social media because I backed up away from that, you know, just doing the writing and trying to be creative, started three books, haven't finished none of them. So anyhow, that's, you're busy.

You know, I mean, we weren't able to tour, but there were other things to be done to be worked, other projects. to be worked on. And so I've spent that this time working on the other projects. Well, besides the play and whatnot, is there another kind of bucket list dream that you've yet to fulfill in your career? Nope. I think that, you know, with the various projects that we have, and we also have another theater piece called The Fairy Tale Chronicles that we're working on. So I think, you know, for me in the music industry, I accomplished more than I ever thought I would. And it's made an

impression, a positive impression on a lot of people who grew up with me like you and who love the music. But since we weren't able to go out and do concerts and stuff, I just started working on some other things creatively that popped up in my spirit. And so I'm excited to, you know, see this happen. I'm excited to get out on the road with the theater piece. I'm excited to get our episodes done for our children's cartoon. I'm just excited about all of the various projects that we're working on right now. You know, and my hands are full. It also sounds great.

But if people who saw your unsung, it's a nice continuation of chapter to see that you're working with your sons. Like, that's great. Yeah. Yeah. One of the books is called, you know, the next chapter, chapter two. No, the book is called Second Act. This is the children's book. No, a book that I'm writing for on.

Oh, that you're working on one of the three. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, I just wanted, Fronte, you look like you're about to. Oh, no, man, I was just going to say just thank you for the music. Like, you're, there, this is Nisi album. That's like one of the first records I remember seeing in my grandparents' house, like coming up. And so I just remember as a kid, because I was, I mean, this is, I was probably like four or five years old, but,

I remember the front that you had on the, it's like the black and with the kind of yellow. I thought you were part of the wall picture. I thought she was singing before. Yeah, me too. I couldn't understand that. I was like, what was she doing the trap? I was so afraid when that album cover came out because one of the leaves didn't entirely cover that titty. And all about is big.

My grandmother said that. Wait to Big Mama see that. see that, but part of my titty is out. Oh, God, Jesus, I was so on there. I'm glad. I fell out of my chair. Because the back, seriously, the back cover that,

I mean, I had the biggest question you as a kid. Just that was one of the, just the first covers I remember seeing that I wasn't afraid of, because it was, because covers were so big, you know, but you were on the back and I remember you had like that big smile, and I was like, man, like, this is just, you look really beautiful on that. And that's just one of my favorite memories from childhood. And I love that album. Just thank you so much.

I was kind of afraid of that cover, Fonte, because again, I thought the wall was eating her up. I wasn't sure either, Amir. I was with you. Then again, I thought that Stevie Wonder is drowning in donuts on songs in the field of life. So, you know, what do I know? Okay. I still did a day think that he's drowning in donuts.

But, you know, we really thank you for doing this, this solid and coming on the show and sharing your story. And being patient because this has been like our third time reschedule on this. And I just appreciate you for that. And although you may not evoke you. You may not evoke all kinds of yells and screams through your music. The emotion that you evoke is priceless, timeless, and we just thank you for it. So, Steve, anything?

Thank you for, let's hear it for the boy. From my heart, I'm not trying to make a joke. Thank you. Even just for that. For real, though. Because that's where I found you and then went backwards. So thank you. Yes, absolutely.

Well, once again, ladies and gentlemen, this Denise Williams on Questlove Supreme, on behalf of Fon Ticolo and Laya and Sika Steve. Oh, and based on that partial titty, I'm going record shopping tomorrow. I'm going to pick that one up. Steve, anyway, this is Questlap Supreme. We'll see you on the next go-round. This is Steve. Thank you.

Bye-bye. Questlove Supreme is a production of I-Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I-Heart Radio, visit the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

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The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Ellen, correct? I doctored the test won.

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Manchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

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