The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Fatima Robinson

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Fatima Robinson is a world-class dancer and choreographer who has pivoted to directing. You know Fatima's work, from Michael Jackson's "Remember The Time" to the Emmy-winning Dr. Dre-led Superbowl Halftime Show to Beyoncé's Renaissance Tour. In a Questlove Supreme conversation, Fatima gushes with passion for dance and hip-hop as she looks back at incredible work with Aaliyah, Michael, and Kendrick Lamar, to name a few. Fatima and Ahmir also reflect on collaborating on the two televised performances celebrating Hip Hop's 50th anniversary.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, all. wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's

East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to understand. miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok

podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. It's much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-hosted the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel on our podcast The Away End. We'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026

World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on the Army Stewart of the chip. I'm Tav Ramos. I'm Tom Boca.

On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove, and with me is the award-winning teamist of all the teams.

How's it going on you? You look awfully glowy today. Oh, yeah, I'm on the new fancy camera, excuse me. So I'm, I might be feeling myself quite a little bit. Yeah, I was about to say you got that Lenny Kravitz on the show, glow about yourself today. What is it? I knew Fatima was going to come on here looking correct.

So I had to make sure I was, you know, far with my sense. Oh, okay. And what are you wearing this evening, Steve? I'm wearing pretty much the same thing as Fatima. But, uh. You have to take it off the shoulders, Steve. Oh, God. Like the surface of the sun.

We've never seen his shoulder. Thanks for me. By the way, Steve, my older family members, and you can tell they're older because of what they told me, they were like, you know, how come that boy always smokes refra? Wait, what was your response? No, I was laughing at them because I was like, You didn't tell them?

Reifers good. Want something? Yeah. I was like, wait to you hear about me. Good to see you in your old spot, Bill. Yeah, I'm back in the studio. I'm wearing Stitch Fix. Thank you very much.

A little proud from Stitch Fix. I don't look like Fatima, but that's okay. I'm good. I'm happy to be home. I was waiting for you. How are you doing? I'm great, you know. Happy anniversary, Amir.

Happy anniversary. You and Fonte and all the okay players. Happy anniversary. That's right. Big 25. Yeah. We are 25 years old, Fonticillo. Okay, you got your tribe sweater on, I see.

Yeah, man. Yeah, I have to rep for the tribe, man. We, in the presence of royalty tonight. Right. I see. So speaking of which, ladies and gentlemen, similar to the LL Cool J episode in which I admitted that maybe I purposely slowed down the pursuit of real camaraderie because I knew I wanted my first real conversation to be on this platform, you know,

and that's just not for self-serving purposes. I just, I know that the first month and a half of a friendship with me with a fellow industry peer person is kind of going to result to a lot of weird, nerdy questions, and I've been told it's rather annoying, so that's why this platform exists. And today, our guest is no exception to that. I will say that there's literally no human being in this industry that I personally am curious about the path of their journey from soup to nuts that they've taken. Practically every iconic video worth its grain of salt that has been on MTV or BT or, you know, now YouTube is how we get it. has either been, you know, blessed by her presence,

if we're talking back in the day, later with her expertise and choreography, later as she pivots into directing, not to mention any wild moment that we've seen with dancing nine times out of ten, you're either watching her personal blueprint or I'm almost certain that her disciples have, you know, have carried the baton.

I would be remiss if I didn't say that a lot of the praise and the credit that I've personally been getting for the hip hop 50 celebration things that happened at the Grammys and that happened again with the special in December. I'm telling you right now our guest today was show enough the anchor for a lot of that. Like I got the glory of just like, hey, this song and that song and call this guy up and clear that sample. but in terms of just like dealing with the headaches, not only as a creator and running her own squad, but you know, she damn near had to be a life coach just to keep certain group members from corn at each other's throats

because you got to understand like, you know, a lot of these group members broke up. You know, most groups don't last 40 years. So I have so many questions to ask our guest today please welcome to Questleaf Supreme for Tima Robinson. Finally. Oh. Yes, exactly.

All right. I'm going to ask you the question. Now, without giving it all the way. Yes. I've been kind of open on this platform, you know. I mean, nothing I say winds up being headlines in any of the blogosphere or whatever. So we're,

even though we're award-winning, like we're not gotcha journalism. but I've talked about how stressful these situations can be. And I've only had to deal with two of them, which, you know, is of course the hip hop 50 things. But you, on the other hand, have to deal with, you know, I mean, Lord knows how many Super Bowl halftimes you've been involved in, every award show that we've seen, and walking away from hip hop 50,

in which I will say that watching it on television, I said to myself like, oh, but being there that night, it's intense. There was, look, I'm about full transparency. I personally was sort of a block away from depression. Really? Well, because the thing was, it was like I vowed to never subject myself to that level of stress ever again this lifetime. The first time doing the 15-minute Grammy thing, when I landed it in New York,

I lost a tooth fell out. I went straight to the dentist. And part of my resistance to coming back to it for a two-hour version was, no, like why would I ever want to do that to myself? But the thing is, is that I only had to experience that twice. I'm almost certain you have to deal with that eight to nine times a year.

Yeah. award show every so my first question to you why even bother like why why do you do this why my gosh it's no it's the best i love finding the solution to the problem i get off on that so because i get off on that i'm like bring it to me like i love when it's like a fire and i'm like pooh put that fire out another fire another fire boom put it out put it out I love it I live for that I was going to say

and I've shared the story about us having an emergency some six minutes oh yeah six minutes before we're live on the air and everything's falling apart and I looked at you and you just you did this Zen

thing that I'd never seen before and I was just like I got to know it Fatima is doing in her life because I was having a pan- Even after it was over, I had a minor panic attack at the end of the first Grammys thing because I was unaware that Uzi came on and saved us. Yeah. So. Well, he didn't, yeah.

He, that was, I mean, not, he put a nice cherry at the end of the. 100%, but you really fought for that moment to happen, which was really great. And, you know, the other moments, I had never experienced something like that, someone dropping out on live TV while we were actually in the moment of it. That was new to me. But at a certain point, just with hip hop, nothing is surprising. And I have to tell a lot of these executives, like, you know, they'll be, oh, my God, this is happening and this is happening. And I'm like, it's hip hop. It's going to be okay.

Just give it a moment. We're going to figure it out, you know? and it's just I grew up with hip hop. It's what I know. It's how I've been trained. And, you know, we always figure it out. Can I just ask you out on a number since we're talking about how many artists and how many dancers for the hip hop 50 if the Grammy? I only have to deal with the artist.

She has to deal with the artist and the dancer. That's why I'm asking. Artists, dancers, managers, wardrobe, lighting, production design. I got to answer all the questions. Oh, so that's hundreds of people. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I would have started at the beginning.

Where are you from? Where were you born? I was born in Little Rock, Arkansas, and I moved to L.A. when I was five years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Little Rock, Arkansas, and every summer I'd go back to Little Rock and be with my family there.

What part of L.A. did you move to? I lived everywhere. We first landed in Compton. I lived in Englewood and Harthon and Elston. and El Salvador and San Pedro and I lived all over the place in LA. See, I thought you were straight up Brooklyn. Everybody. Everybody thinks I'm from New York.

But no, and I really, not until like five years ago, I really rode for L.A. But now I just ride for California because I love Ohio. And I'm just out of cities. Can you sell me on that? Because a lot of my friends are moving to Ohio. and I want to know what's up there before. Is this satellite over there? Is that what you're about to say?

That's what it looks like. I was going to take you guys out to look at the mountains. And I was checking to see if the sunset, but the clouds are really low right now. They're covering the mountains. It's beautiful here. And it's just a wonderful vortex of good energy. You know, it's called the Valley of the Moon.

And the Moon hits really beautiful here. It's not that far from my love. LA, only an hour and a half, but it's in nature and it's just gorgeous. See, my only concern is that as a person who insists on getting on the first flight, and most of my flights are 5 a.m. flights. Yeah. And that basically means that I would have to leave your house at like one in the morning just to get to LAX by three.

Is that your airport? That's not how I go. Well, there's Santa Barbara Airport, but there's not as many flights out. a lot of more connections, you know, so it's easier to just go out L.A.S. Sacrifice for peace. We're in the peacetime of life. All right. You're selling me on it.

Yeah, a lot of my friends just up and left, New York, L.A., and they all went to Ohio. And I'm like, what the hell is that Ohio that I don't know about? Is it more like a hippie commune or? No, I mean, there were a lot of hippies that came here back in the day. It's really changing over. There's really great restaurants and stuff. It's just, you know, it's just being in the country. But there's also really amazing people here.

So you have really great dinner parties at friends' houses. And, you know, you can, you know, see horses walking down the street and go on hikes. And it's just a better quality of life, you know. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit. by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everyone. I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The Big Money

Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old.

I watched every game. and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years

since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, it's heartbreak,

and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I would like to know if you can remember this. What is the first creative thing that you remember putting together? The first creative thing I remember putting together would probably be,

I have two younger sisters. And so when my mom would have guests over, we were the entertainment. So I would put together dance moves on my sisters. And that was probably the first creative because I would, you know, I would dress us. And we would put towels on our head because I thought I was Darcel from Solid Gold. Darcel wave. Yeah. Darcel wave.

You couldn't tell me nothing, you know. And so we'd get in her. heels and we were the you know the whole performance and that when i did dream girls it was such a trip because i felt like i was doing the poses that i used to do with my two younger sisters yeah that's so interesting you just gave me a whole memory of like little girls we used to choreograph things on the playground like all i remember steps doing things to like lisa lice in cult jam and the jazz and that was like a thing that it was just hit me with a memory that's yeah

Totally. So that's what that was it. This is the third time that someone's randomly dropped Darcel Wayne's name. We've got to find this woman because. Oh, I'm in contact with her. What? Of course you are. Oh, I can't wait to get to this list of dancers. She's still in contact with it.

Yes, I know that, you know, we hold Cheryl's song of Soul Train up in high honor. But, you know, we also had Darcel Wayne too. And she doesn't get. enough props because she definitely carried all of solid gold on her back for a number of years. Oh, yes. They even got a second black dancer. So they actually created the in SAG. They created the principal dancer because of her.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And principal dancers get paid different than the other day. Yeah. And so because she was so amazing and such an individual and they kept giving her solos, they said, we have to figure this out. And she, she created the principal dancer. Yeah. Not knowing that you're from California. I want to know what your life and dance was before you became a professional dancer. So you basically just walk us through like where would you hang in California? Like were you an Uncle Jam person? Were you like? Definitely. I was too young for Uncle Jam's Army, but I listened to all that Egyptian lover and all of all of that. I would go to.

you know, at every high school, they had dance competitions. So I would enter the dance competitions and win there. But what really did for me is I graduated high school at 16. And I started going to this club, Paradise 24, where they would have dance contests. And one year, girls from who danced for BPD straight ahead, they won. It was a $5,000 dance contest. So everybody would enter. The next year, it was, um,

It was, they were called GTI at the time, and I was Farside later on. We won, we won my dance troupe called A Feminine Touch. We won that year, and that's what John Singleton saw us win that year and came backstage. He was like, I'm going to put y'all in my movie. I'm going to put y'all in movie. We were like, yeah, whatever. And he ended up putting us in boys in the hood as extras. What scene?

What scene? The barbecue scene. Ah, okay. Okay. So the relationship with John obviously led to remember the time later on, correct? Correct. When he kept asking for a choreographer, he kept coming up with my name. And he's like, I know that girl. And Cole called me for that. Yeah. And had you ever choreographed anything prior to that? Oh, yeah. So back in the day, when you hooked up with a hip-hop artist, you naturally just made up their stuff.

We didn't know that there was an actual job called choreographer. You got with Big Daddy Kane. I used to dance with him with Scoob and Scrap. You know, we would kind of, we had the market locked down because it was Big Les and Josie in New York. And it was me and Tish in L.A. And so they would call us to be like, oh, Heavy D is looking for dancers. So we would fly out on fake tickets and then land in New York and then dance for head. I'm sorry.

What's a thing? fake tickets is when you didn't have to have a show an ID and you can just be you can file a store way that said John Moses and you give them the ticket oh back in the day you guys didn't know that um forget oh i didn't know like like i thought you hewee lewis once told us about just like sneaking on the plane and like well everything was handwritten back then too so Everything, yeah. You know, somebody, there was a guy who had a credit card scheme and we'd pay him, you know, $100. He'd get us a ticket.

It was just a whole, it was the Wild Wild West back in the day. But we would land there and then we danced for heavy. And then we called them, you know, hey, so-and-so is looking for dancers in L.A. And then they do the same thing and come to L.A. So. Wait, so let me. Even for like the R&B videos with some of those choreographers, there was no conversation about in between the... No.

They would literally, I remember like, you know, when I danced with Big Daddy Kane, we'd stay at his house and the bodyguard would come and come on his rehearsal. We rehearsed in his basement and, you know, and we'd make up the routine and we'd go on stage and, you know, we would do our number and we were happy and no one. question where the dance was supposed to come from because there was no place for it to come from other than us because there was no unless you were in the clubs you didn't know how to dance hip hop unless you were watching mtv or video jukebox and recording the steps and like learning at home like there was no place there was all the big choreographers were jazz that was michael peters and they they weren't messing with us that's what i was wondering they were not messing with us Okay, okay.

No, it was just two different worlds. Okay. So by the time I got to Michael, he was so excited about this hip-hop dance he had been seeing and hearing about. He was like, I want to learn it all. Wow. So dope. I sort of correlated with video directors. I mean, I would say that maybe Lionel Martin was kind of the first generation of hip-hop director.

directors that would feature dancers and whatnot. So, like, we take it for granted now. I mean, it's not that I see dancers all that much in this environment, but who, in your opinion, like, really kick started the concept of, like, okay, I need two dancers in order to make my package complete, like, as far as you're concerned? Yeah, I don't know who first did it. You know, it was, dance was just part of the car. culture. Like everybody had two dancers with them. And let me tell you my Lionel Martin story,

I auditioned for him. And it was here in L.A. and it was at his hotel. And when I got there, there were two girls there. One's mother had talked to her into being the choreographer. And, you know, he explained the treatment to us. He, then went, she said, well, let me see you guys dance. And one girl kind of complained about the carpet and stuff. And another girl complained about the tape player, those, like, sped the song up. And she said, oh, it won't be so fast. And I got up and just bust whatever I knew. And he stopped the music, and he pointed at me and said, you're going to be the choreographer and you two are going to be the dances because you adapted to the situation the best. And I was like, okay.

And literally Rosie Perez had to tell me, she called me out the blue and was like, you have to call yourself a choreographer and you have to charge for that. And I'm just like, ah. So I went and looked up how to spell the words. I didn't even know how to spell it. Did she help you figure out how much to charge? Well, then I got an agent to help me. I was scared.

How hard was it to navigate? toxicity treatment in the late 80s and early if I really want to keep it a buck maybe up until 2019 to now 2023 yesterday yesterday tomorrow and tomorrow okay yeah I mean it was tougher when I was younger um you know I got my shirt snatched off from a rapper while I was on tour with big daddy cane and Jay-Z at the time was his hype man, and he had to calm me down and, you know, make sure I was okay.

And so it was wild. But most guys, you know, most guys were respectful. I think when alcohol, too much alcohol and drugs kind of got involved, and that's where he just had to watch the room, you know, was all fun and games until, you know, someone drank a little too much. And then you had to be like, okay, I think it's time to exit. it, I think I'm, you know, so it was really just about being aware of your surroundings and, and not just, not doing dumb stuff, you know? How does that translate as the mother hen? Because as a choreographer from the outside, it also feels like you're somewhat of a mother

hen to all the other dancers. So how do you deal with, I guess, I would say mentoring them in that way or protecting them in that way? I mean, the only way I could describe is like a Bethann Hardison, like someone, a figurehead to make sure that you guys are okay. No. No, we were looking out for ourselves, 100% looking out for ourselves. Did you have to become that person? That's what I was asking.

Like, did you have to become that person for dancers at a certain point in your career? Yeah, I think we all look out for each other. And, yeah, I mean, there's time. where the dancers do need someone to speak up for them. So I do, you know, I often do that. But I think now it's such a weld oil machine. I kind of already are preempting the things that could happen. And I, you know, we, we have writers.

We have things that, you know, to make sure that they're comfortable in the room and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, but in the beginning, in the beginning of you know, we didn't have. Nothing. We was just figuring it out. Were dancers unionized back then? No. You were in SAG, but you had to do a certain amount of TV work to get into SAG. And eventually we all did because of great shows like the Arsenio Hall show and in living color and stuff like that, we would, you know, we would get put into the union, which was awesome. Yeah. But see, music videos and stuff, none of those were unionized. that was like a sliding scale of a rate.

You only got that union work whenever you did TV and things like that. But if you were on tour, you know, it was kind of you were fighting for what your weekly rate was going to be. I see. So again, like if you're with a, I don't know who in the late 80s and early 90s was jenky in terms of like, did we get our checks yet? Did we get?

Yeah, Bobby Brown. But that's what I'm asking, though. Would you have to deal with Lou Silas or would you have to deal with Bobby Brown or his managers? Yeah, we would have to deal with managers. I'd have to deal with. I remember he flew us out because he was really territorial with his dancers. And so we were in Atlanta and we were living in a wing of the house. And, you know, he was dating Whitney.

And I just remember, like, he gave us a 300 Z to drive. So went off to all the clubs. and it was great, but I was like, you know, cool, we'll come down, but we have bills, so you have to pay our car note and stuff. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the car notes came around, and he didn't pay. And I was like, ooh, we got to go, packed up those bags.

And I was like, there's a Sir Mix-a-Law video. We got audition for her. Oh, no. We got being late. We missed the audition, but it was baby got back. You're in that? No. No.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's all kinds of stories, man. I'm sorry, real quick, dancer check-in. You said Bobby Brown. Remember the people that kind of had the hot, hot fade. Y'all don't know what I'm talking? It was a gay dancer, right? So that was who that was.

That was who that was? That was who that was? Then was his dancers. I was just curious about the one. I was going to say with the Bobby album, though, you guys did that SoulTrain episode where it was like 20 of you on stage correct i'm one of those i just don't i can't even imagine the time period in which no one thought about budget or everything was just paid out my pocket and giant and big and all those things yeah well what would you

what would you say is your first real professional foray into music videos Definitely remember the time. I mean, I was 21 when I did that one. That was your first video? No, that was my first. That was what put my name into a lot of people's mouths, you know. I was choreographing beforehand. But when I did that, because that was a event that people sat down with their families and watched together, you know, it was definitely something that was I didn't even, I don't think going into it. I was so excited to work with Michael. I had loved him growing up. Our birthdays are the same day. I wanted to send him flowers when his hair

caught on fire. I was begging my mom, please. You know, I was in love with him like that. And so to do this video was really, I had to kind of, you know, grow up really quickly in that moment. And, but it was really when it came out was just like, wow. But the, what, the, wild part about it is I had to go back to dancing, you know, for the Mary J. Blige's and the R&B and hip hop artists that I knew of the past. I could have like had ego and then like, oh, I'm at the top. Where do I go now? And I went right back to hip hop. He described the whole process, like, how long did it take the phone call and how did you map out? What was it going to be? Well, John called me and, you know, he was describing the video.

how it's going to be Egyptian and he has Imman and Eddie Murphy and Magic Johnson. And I'm like, mm-hmm, and he's going through the whole concept. I'm like, mm-hmm, okay, wow, it sounds great. And we go to get off the phone. I was like, wait, wait, wait, who's the artist? And he says, Michael. Wow. I guess he thought I read the trades or something or just happened, you know, I knew.

And he said, it's Michael Jackson. And I went, oh, okay, okay. And then I got off the phone, I was like, I was running around my house. Now, when he ran it down to you, did he say that it was going to start with like the recreation of the coming to America situation? Because I really want to know from the nitty to the gritty about this video.

That was already in there. And it's funny, I was cleaning out my storage. And it was scripted. And it had storyboards to it. You know, I have the original script of the. Remember the Time video that I kept all these years. Did the John Singleton thing at the USC. That would have been so dope to see.

Yeah. So, okay, I'm sorry. I have major questions about Remember the Time. Go ahead. So, like, how many days did you have to prepare? Like, how do you even figure out, like, what Egyptian moves to do? Yeah, tell my story. Well, because at the time I had been going back and forth, working in New York,

going to the clubs in New York, clubs in L.A., I really, I loved Buddha Stretch and Henry and like all those dancers. And I knew I wanted them to be a part of it because they brought a whole other flavor to it. And so, you know, we had audition. By the way, they're from the Latin quarter. Yes. We had auditions and it was hundreds of dancers down the street. And I just, I couldn't believe it.

I had never been involved in something so big. It was the first time I had hired so many dancers. I think we hired 50 dancers. And, you know, you do the auditions from there. You whittle it down. Hold on. Let me pause you right before. You talked about the dancers.

However, you made sure that there were specific dancers in the building. Oh, for sure. Can you talk about them? Well, I definitely wanted all the hip-hop dancers who were doing things at the time, you know, Josie and Leslie. and Hitch, my dance partner, and then some of the girls who danced where Bobby was in there with us, and then Stretch brought his whole crew

with loose joints and all the dancers, you know, came because we wanted it to feel authentic to our vibe, you know? And we just had fun. You know, Michael doesn't like to count when you dance. He likes to emulate the beat. He brings in this big speaker, so you really feel the music in your chest.

And so, you know, instead of counting like one, two, three, four, five, and six, seven, you have to, like, you have to, you know, emulate the beat. And I love that. And his, he really set the tone for my professionalism, you know. He was just such a perfectionist. And, you know, we were burgos. You know how verbos are, guys. Michael, Beyonce, like, we're all, we're like perfectionist freaks.

So it was wonderful. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my. brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down

dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the ground line. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent.

He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat, just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits, teams look for to the best. biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids.

My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer. team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I watched Michael work out with Casper and

Jeffrey Daniels, Casper, and I forget the third person that's in that trilogy, when they were working on the bad video. Like they all worked together. They were trying out ideas. Mike would set up with a tripod. And they were just basically dance battle and piecemeal what was going to happen. Yeah. One, how are you putting that together?

Two, the dancers that you're choosing. Like if I'm assuming what I call the five, six, seven, eights. Mm-hmm. Like anyone from like the Lester Wilson School of Dancing, the previous Michael generation, Lester Wilson, Michael Peters, like professional Broadway choreographers, if you're dealing with dancers who are more street-oriented, how's the memory work?

Because even when I'm giving songs, like I got to listen to that shit like at least 20 times before. Yeah. Like are you videotaping it? Yeah. Are they studying that way? Yeah, we didn't really have. have that back in the day. No, we, we used to have, gosh, how many, we may have had like a whole

week of rehearsal with that, whereas now I maybe get a week of rehearsal to do a whole damn show, you know? Yeah, I know. So things moved slower back then. We were working with, we were working with cassette tapes. You have to rewind the music. I play. You know, I laugh at dancers now because everything is so digital, fast. Like, everything is quick like this instant. And so it was just a different pace. And what I loved is Michael was just down to learn. Like he wasn't trying to like do what he's done in the past.

He wanted to get all of, because he couldn't go to clubs to see where this dance was all being done. We turned the dance studio into a club so that he can experience that. We put on other music and hang out and just have fun and dance. Where y'all, like dance circle battle and all that stuff? Just dance, yeah, all of it. He loved it. I want to ask for Timna with your comment earlier about, you know, how now everything moves faster.

What effect do you see like TikTok and social media having a lot? on dance. I actually love it because it keeps dance alive. It used to be, you know, dance steps were getting shared in the clubs or dance steps were getting shared at barbecues, you know, as we were younger. But now I love that dance steps are getting shared on platforms like TikTok. It's definitely easier for me in my life. Like, I can literally sit with my team and we can love.

laugh and learn. It is so much fun to go through all the dances and what's happening right now, what the kids are doing. Like, the fact that I have an insight to that through my phone is so amazing. So I feel like it allows me to stay current, you know, and I love it. Do you have any in your personal life free time, is there any particular style of dance that you like, you know, if it's salsa or, you know, I? You know, anything like ballroom, anything like that.

Yeah. No, I used to take different styles of dances to go with my natural movement. Like for the Alia video, I took flamenco classes to go with that. I felt like, I argued that somebody. I felt like Timberlens' beats had that flamenco sound to it. I did a tango with Dr. Dre before. So I used to take classes. Oh, been there, done that.

Yes. So, but now I'm not doing all that. I got assistance. I got, you know, people I lean on. You know, it's like an athlete. Like my body is sore. You know, I like to. I'm just two stepping.

I'm like, I'm telling people, I'm going to do this once. You better watch. Angela Bassett, two steps. My sister's drill it and drill it and drill it. I'm not doing all that. But every now and then I get to go to clubs, especially if I'm outside of L.A. I definitely still love to feel what's going on,

what people are responding to musically and how they're moving in the clubs and stuff. So I still go out every now and then just to check it out. Like once you jump into that pool, and the only thing I can compare it to is DJ. Jan, like I'm now realizing that I'm now three generations removed from the music that I'm used to. So it's almost like now I'm just studying.

Like I'm now the DJ I hate where I like I will go to a nightclub and shazam everything and study what the kids are listening to and that sort of thing. For you though, how are you able to know what's ahead of the curb? Because I'm also certain that you're dealing with looking in your rearview mirror at like, oh, who's behind me? Like, who might get that job or that sort of thing? Yeah, no. I'm not worried about what nobody else is doing. And I actually train them and then I train them and let them go.

And so all my protegees are like, you know, AJ came from my camp who did Usher, Charm came from my camp who did, you know, does duo and weekend and all. the folks and so Sean Bankhead came up under me and so it's it's um I love doing that I love being a mentor and all that and go but really for me that's the I think that Amir is like you're tapped in

and you stay curious and so am I you know I'm tapped in I know when things are shifting when culture is shifting when like I see it I can sniff it out you know and I'm like ooh what's that oh what are they doing you know And so for me, even, and I also hire specialty people in that. Like, I just did burner boys.

So I made sure they brought somebody in from Nigeria with them. And then I brought this girl in from New York, who she's a young girl who's, she's African-American. But she came in and just knew all the Afrobeat dances. So that was our warm-up. Our warm-up was all the Afro beat steps. and I let her lead the warm up. And so really I kind of bring the club to me. And then that way, all the dancers like, show me what's new and they, you know, keep me,

they keep me fresh. When did you really become the fan of dance to where you started exploring in your journey? I watched the interview where you were talking about doing one of the Black IPs videos and you looked into Indian and Thai dance. But I'm curious because you mentioned that like you didn't study it and you just went to work. So at some point you started opening your mind to... Yeah. One thing that I wanted to do from the very beginning is I went to an event.

It's so funny. This is so wild. I just gave Misty Copeland an award the other night. And when she came out onto the stage, she did a bow to me. And I almost lost it. Because when I was younger, I would go to events like that. And people would introduce me as a question. and someone would say, oh, where did you study?

And I'm like, oh, I'm self-taught. I'm a hip-hop choreographer. And they like, oh. And they walk away from me. And they just didn't see hip-hop as a true art form of dance. And so I was on a mission of how that was my goal. Like people were going to appreciate hip-hop the same way they appreciate all these other dances, styles that have been here forever.

Because once I, the minute I, into the, and the minute I decided I was going to be a choreographer, I started going to African dance class. And that's when I realized how close hip hop was to our lineage of African dance that actually we would do moves. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's the same thing, but it had meaning to it and all the things. So for me, exploring other styles of dance, other styles of street dance to me as well. Wow. Just to mix with my version of street dance.

And one of the reasons, too, why I'm a choreographer is because I wasn't, I'm self-taught. I did not come up trained, so it was harder for me to catch on to routines. Tony Basil gave me my first audition for Young MC when I was 17 years old. He did that. Yeah. Was it bust the move? It was, I was auditioning for the tour. I think she did bust the move.

Yeah, but she was in all the hip hop clubs back in the day. She's still going strong. Still going strong. Eighty-one, strong. No. So I just really, I wanted to venture out and learn new things. Like I took belly dancing because hip-hop is so, you know, it's so hard and, you know, and tough. and the movement, I wanted to soften my movement up and learn how to teach a female artist how to be pretty and soft.

So I took belly dancing classes where the arms and the hands were so elegant and beautiful. I wanted to offset it with hip-hop. So that was just something that I decided to do because I wanted to explore different ways of movement. Were you able to form any sort of bonding with like the Bill T. Joneses or the Pauli Kelly's or the Charlie Atkins or the Judith Jameson? Like basically. James, when did they bow down and say you even a Jeffrey Holder? Jeffrey Holder. Jeffrey Holder.

Were you ever? No. Is it hard to penetrate that club? Yeah. It was a club. They were not feeling, they weren't thinking about me. This is, but you know, this is strange. No, I was going to say, I'd see Michael Peters driving every now and then.

I'd be like, but, but no. Because you're taking their jobs away from it. But did you know, like, Michael Peters' whole, like, hip-hop connection? Oh, for sure. Like, the whole prodigy thing and Benverine and the things. Yeah. I didn't even be, yeah, okay. So that's just, it's just interesting that they didn't connect.

And even with Debbie Allen in a different world and Jasmine got and all the things you Jasmine was a friend of mine. Jasmine connected with me. Jasmine connected with me. Okay, good. You directed that Tri-May video? That's not. No.

That's not. Tri-May. Just one. That's the one. That's the jam. Just want to hold you. All right. Fonte,

we know you're the smartest motherfucker. Why you always got to get the filler cut, man? No, I know. That was a single, but that was the one. That was the one. That was the slow join. That was a slow join. That was a slow join.

Oh, let's it go. No, I was young, and it wasn't even like I was taking their jobs. They just weren't in the world of hip hop. I was going to Jack the Rappers and making a reel with my, there was the host of this show called Putting on the Hits. Yes. Back out of day. He used to make reels for actors, and I found him,

and I had him make a chore, a dancer reel for me, and I would go to Jack the Rappers and hand it out to the executives and stuff. These people weren't in this world at all. They didn't know anything. thing about hip-hop. So could you talk about your relationship with Rosie then? Because you did mention her. Yeah.

So Rosie was right before me. And, you know, Rosie, she, before Paradise, there was a club funk, what was it called? Reggae, funk or funky reggae something. So that's where Spike Lee saw her dancing in the club and put her in, you know, do the right thing. So we kind of had a little bit of the same journey in a way. And because she did in live in color, like she was on the post of hip hop and she was in it. So she was the one person that would, you know,

call me out of the blue or that person that I can, you know, ask questions to. So it was Rosie for me. Have you ever been in this situation in which you're finding out, oh, maybe, maybe like an hour before that your client might have two left feet? No, you have rehearsals, so you find that out in rehearsal, and then you just know how to build it all around them. But what I do best is pull out things that they just didn't even realize that they had in them.

And I'm really good at designing things around people. But some people don't, you know, don't want to dance or don't feel it, you know. And so I don't push and make people dance. I kind of, I'm focused on the entire show and not like trying to force you to do something you don't want to do. All right. My last remember the time question because I always wanted to know how much leeway does the artist have to go freestyle? because they also have to be the artist and stand out front. Yeah.

And so, you know, when I watch Remember the Time, I'll see him do it for half a second. And then I'll see him go into his regular Michael Jackson stick. And occasionally, I remember specifically that point, it was like half a second where Michael started doing the, yeah, when he was doing like the prep or something. And I was like, oh, he knows modern dancing because, you know, again, like Michael Jackson is such a unique dance.

or all of his moves are his own. Yeah. To be shocked that he knows how to do the Reebok or the prep or, you know. That's giving it to him. Right. But he's there for a half a second. I always wanted to know, is it a thing where you're just like, look, you stand in the center, do what you do and we'll dance around you or see like,

no, I want to do the dances that you guys are doing. Yeah, no, Michael wanted to do what we were doing. So he was pretty fully choreographed. He had a moment of we broke out into his thing, but he was pretty choreographed that whole video. You know, it's him. So how do you get over just the inhale, exhale? He's normal.

Because you just know you have a job to do and you know this is like a pivotal point in your growth and in everything. So you just put all that aside, at least for me, that's what I did. And you go in and you do the job you were hired for, You know? A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinnfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone. I'm Ago Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means,

but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12

and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86.

I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player

on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is going to be a hell of a pivot question that asks, but I have to know the answer to this question.

Tell me. How are you not on the airplane after Rock the Boat was finished? That is a really good question because we were pretty inseparable and I hung out with her a lot. It's funny, there was a record label guy had the only phone that worked there. This was early on with cell phone. So when you were out of the country, they didn't work. And I called my family. This video had come up so last minute, Rock the Boat, that I was.

missing my grandparents 50th wedding anniversary and so I everyone was in Arkansas and I was going to go back to Atlanta where I had a home and I used his phone to call my family and they were all still in Arkansas no one had gone back to Atlanta and we had had such a good time on the beach the night before with the bonfire and all that, that I just decided to stay. Wow. Wow.

And. But in normal circumstances, you would have been on that flight back. I was supposed to be on the plane. How long did it take you to answer this question with such ease? I mean, it's been so long. I know.

Yeah. I don't, I don't, I haven't gotten asked some of Leah stuff in a long time, but I'm, I'm healed. over that. It was a tough thing to go through, especially because I took the phone call of it all happening. And I had to call her mother, which was really, and I had a, my son was one

years old. And to have to call a mother and tell her something like that was just, it was a lot. Damn. I had to stop for a, a good period of time just to process. Like how long did it take you to process just to? Yeah, I think I kind of went head in to work and tried to like just suppress it. And I think it was later in life. But I also, I started to realize how I responded to death. I was very, I would shut down when it came to death and I didn't want to go to

funerals ever. And I was, I would just have this very cold shut down thing. when it came to people dying. And so at a certain point, I had to deal with that because I knew it was surrounding that situation is I like, I shut off something inside of myself in order to like keep moving forward. Because, you know, a lot of times even to people would come up to the street and want to give me a hug. And like, I would see it in the eyes of so many people that I was around because. I was, you know, just so close to her. They just wanted a hug.

And I understood it, but it was really tough, you know. What was the working relationship like with, Leah, when you said, we mentioned Billy dancing. That's what made me think. So, like, yeah, what was that creative kind of partnership? Yeah, Lili was, we were, like, synchronized swimming. If I could be an artist, I would have been her. Like I gave her everything all of me because it was she was just so wonderful.

Her voice was so incredible. She was such an amazing dancer, but such an amazing person, you know? And that's what was so hard about it. It's just she was really, really great. And just so young and had so much ahead of her. Like we were, I said goodbye to her. And I was like, I'll see you in LA because we were taking our meeting on the movie Sparkle that she was about to do.

Oh, wow. She was going to, oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't know she was going to start Sparkle. Yeah. Wow. No, it was just things lined up. And so it was, she was truly a special being.

What was your most favorite thing that y'all created together? I mean, I liked it all. I really did like it all. Are you that somebody? You're so great. You know, try again. It just. Resolution was actually my favorite video first. Really?

You need a resolution. You need a resolution? Yeah. It was a new her, not like your kid's sister. And like it was like a sophisticated snake and the whole. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, I don't know. I love performing one in a million. Mm-hmm. I love those beats. Like Timberland made you just dance in a different way. You know, when he, when he, when he, produced Alia and came on the scene.

It was like, that's when Dan shifted. The beats were so incredible and you had to figure out how to hit all those beats and to, ta, tat, tat, tat, that, you know, it was so fly. But yeah, that was, I have all this old footage because I've digitized now some of my stuff. So I've been looking through and I have like rehearsal footage and audition footage. I have footage of just no one's ever seen before of us back in the day. I know Amir. I have documented every video you choreographed?

No, not everything. The earlier stuff, I had this video camera everywhere I went and then I kind of dropped off. And then, you know, now my assistants and I, we kind of try and document as much as this pop. Document everything. Yes. I know. I know. I'm assuming that your first pivot was during.

directing. Is there a stop in between choreographing and directing? Yes, definitely. So for me, I always dance with the artists that I work with. So when Alia's videos, I'm dancing. And a certain point, I had to step out of being a dancer and just be the choreographer so I could see the bigger picture of everything. And that was hard for me because I love to dance, but also it was just the transition. But once I did it and stepped out, it really allowed me to start understanding how so many other things make the choreography so much better. Wardrobe and lighting and props and all of that. So I stepped out of there first. And then when I was 25, I, you know, John would always try and get me in front of the camera. A lot of people were trying to get me in front of the camera. And I just

I go on auditions and I just wasn't comfortable acting. It just didn't come from the heart like dance did. But I loved being behind the scene. So I went and took this course in New York Film Academy. And that's when I decided doing that course, it was just an eight week, like 10 hour a day course. I was the one in class who had been on so many sets and was like, oh, that's what that means. And that, oh, I understand now. oh, that's why that takes so long.

You know, it was such like, oh, I get it. And from there, I just went, that's what I want to do. I want to direct. I want to be behind the camera. And my first video was Mr. Vegas, headtime. That's the first video I directed. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. So about women, you talked about, you know, when you turn 25, what is the average lifespan of a cat? Good question. Yeah, girls go to around 36, 37, you know, some push it a little longer, but they have to really do a lot of repair on their bodies after sports injuries. Yeah, it's the same way. And then guys can go to like 42, 40, you know, up in there in their 40s. You know, there's some that, go longer, but yeah, I definitely, around 36, I was like, yeah, I'm good on this.

And by other question about one of your, with Mary Jay Blige, because you were, wherever, are you responsible for the Mary J. Bob? The Mary, yes. Awesome question. Awesome question. No, that's Mary. That's her. That's all Mary.

I'd say that's the greatest question for asked in the history of this damn podcast. 100 years of podcast. I wouldn't even thought to ask that question. Maybe two or three weeks ago, did you happen to see the Saturday Night Live clip in which Julia Stiles came on, Weekend Update to Recreate or Save the Last Dance? Oh my God Oh yeah

It was Well I know you choreographed that Yeah Yeah I didn't even know that Oh dude The team has done everything What happened you done?

She's not everything Oh my god She ran for president Yeah I did that one year Yeah they No they Like it's it was a thing in which One of the cast members

You know Was doing an ode to it And then suddenly Julia walks on next year and then they started doing to dance together and all that stuff. Oh my gosh. I can't wait to see that. I'm going to look that up. Was that the first movie you've done your first feature film? Was that my first feature?

I think so other than like dancing for stuff to choreograph. I think maybe that was my first feature. choreographing. I was responsible for her having a little head wrap on. So we blame you for that, huh? You don't blame me for that. Okay, you're lucky as 25 years.

I don't know. Okay, 25 years. Don't even act like you weren't, you weren't watching, save the last dance like you. You know, I didn't watch that video. I was way too militant back then. Oh, were? You were?

Mm-hmm. But I appreciated it for what it was. That was really nice. Okay. All right. Washington and Fatima. Right. There we go. There we go. It also gave permission to a lot of young kids who were loving hip hop in their homes to, like, actually get out and pursue hip hop dance. You know, it was one of the steps that I had to take to get hip hop dance to be seen as a true art form of dance. And that movie was huge. It made- You're the reason to hit the suburbs. You're the reason to hit the suburbs. Between that and the backstreet boys, I take full responsibility.

Oh, you did backstreet's back, right? I did all that backseat boy stuff. What? Don't, no, no, no, no. Dude, she also, see, I thought the first video she directed was my humps. I thought that was the first video you directed. But no. I know that basically you're the go-to.

You're the first step. with anyone with a with a budget. Can you tell me three videos that you had to say no to that later became like sort of iconic level? Like have you said no to something that, that you regretted saying no to? Well, she missed the audition for baby to go back. Yeah, that was tough.

But I had to remember I was not too long ago looking through for an email and saw something in my, or from my agent and I clicked on it and it said, there's a movie that they want you to come take a meeting for, something like La La Land. And my response was, I'm way too busy. I can't do that right now. And I was like,

and I forwarded back to my agent, like, can you believe I said that? Yeah. Wait, can we talk about musicals for a second? Fatima, you just need it? Can we parlay into the color purple? Of course, it's your show. I was just, I was thinking like the average music video is like three and a half minutes long. Like the color purple is three and a half hours long. Like what is the, what is your mindset choreographically and or storytelling wise to make a complete arc of that whole thing? I'm always amazed at how choreographers and or composers and or whoever just sort of make all of that sort of happen and conceive of it like one thing. You know, there's so many different numbers and so many different. moves and so many different things, but it does feel like a canon in itself. Anyway, I'm trying to speak to that. Yeah, I mean, you start with the script, you know, and with color

purple, because they had done it as a Broadway play, there was music, but Blitz really went in there and, you know, worked with a lot of incredible artists and elevated the music so that it, you know, it had a little more modern feeling to it. And because, because, you know, because in particular, color purple is a period piece. There's not a lot of dance out there to even emulate, like, what would be done then. But I kind of took the creative liberty to say, you know, it all comes from African dance. And if we, you know, you can look back and find bits of every modern dance that we do now in African dance. And so I just kind of gave each number, you know, a feeling, a mood, a joy of a kindred brotherhood for like, uh-huh, you know, when they were building the house and all the men working together.

That was nice. That's going back to, you know, step in when men are all stepping together in fraternity. So I just kind of went through a bunch of different, you know, styles of black dance. But then also I kind of, we're so expressive as people. And, you know, like when you get into hell no with Danielle Brooks and at the end when the ladies all kind of gang up on them and then they all roll their neck, you know, when a black woman starts rolling her neck, then she has had it up to here with your ass. So it was kind of, you know, I took just our even natural movements that we do, you know, and made them into dances. And so it's a journey when you're doing musical like that because it's a lot of hard work. And each number needs its own special attention.

And, you know, our goal for that movie, and I think we really accomplished it is like how do you get out, how do you start the music and start the dance? dance so it's not jarring and it's not taking you out of the story. Yeah. So that was really important for me. It was when I walked into the room, story led first, and then the dance had to support the story. And a lot of times, you know, people are just dancing to be dancing. And that's not what I was trying to do. The story, it had to all make sense, you know, if we were, if should was coming to town

and what is that town going to look like back in the day where that town should have have a shoe shop and then it's going to have a barbershop and then they're you know they got the groceries stand outside like and i will create all that stuff in the rehearsal studio with the skeleton crew of dancers and give them something but where i am now in my career even with this one in particular for color purple it would choreographed it and then shot it the way i wanted to look with close-ups of the feet and overheads and you know all the things and edit it and then i gave it so the director is like, here's Russell. But, you know, that's what choreographers, the good choreographers, that's what we do when we get hired. We're just natural directors,

really. And I love that I had a director who trust in that vision. But I have this great story to say, you know, Blitz told me in Ghana, when he was in high school, they had a talent show. And 80% of the people did for their talent, Alias, are you that somebody? Good gracious. Him and his screen. That's awesome. I know. And so he just vowed to work with me one day.

And I just feel like Alia put us together. And it's so wonderful. It was wonderful to see your touch on that movie because no matter what the dance was, you also still felt hip hop. Always. Always. Always. A win, blow, blow, blow.

A win is a win. A win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed, I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman,

Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Farrell. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like,

and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. Mm. and he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Sliced podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Sliced podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast.

I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist. And John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game. and I fell in love. On our new podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic

of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal

and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm going to play a rapid fire round with you. Okay. Which client of yours is the fastest learner? Alia was the fastest learner. Which kind of yours is the most, I won't say anal retentive, perfectionist. Which kind of yours wants to rehearse their spontaneity?

Beyonce is perfectionist. Meaning you had to go through it over and over and over again until muscle memory or? No, she catches on quick too, but she's just perfectionist. Like she goes back and we go back and work on it and work on it. And, you know, she's still working on. The show is Renaissance was going on and she still had rehearsals. Wow.

Like that. Wow. Okay. Superstar. Yeah. All that. I see. Which client who's not, no, dancing is to you, like, is really underselling their talent of dancing? Um, Buster Rhymes can dance his ass off. He can? Yeah. I don't. I see. My eyes can see the last, that last, when they're in the, the, um, black light scene, he's dancing. And he came to rehearsal and he learned. steps and he was like he threw his his two way across the room was like i'm michael jackson up in here buster can dance his ass off and you know who else can dance good just not yes she can we just drop these things down and we get the going well i was going to ask who is your shyest client because dancing is a that's that's a former vulnerability that you know because you're always worried about like people watch me and I mean that's what got to give it up is about I'm afraid to dance in

public like who's your shyest client I don't know shy is really the word so no one ever held back no I feel like people if you could dance you kind of shy isn't the word I don't know shy I wouldn't even call it reluctant. Like I love working with Kendrick because he loves movement and dance and respects it, but he's not necessarily out there trying to do steps with the dancers. He's going to bring his own energy and vibe to it. And then I build around it and then we sit and look at it and then we build together. You know, I love giving him a little template to go off of.

for him to respond to and then we, you know, do something great. And you give us an example like Super Bowl? They gave me an image of all those boxes. And it was an overhead shot of the boxes. And it was like, that's kind of what we want to create. So then from there, I got to use my imagination or how do these boxes come to life? How do we get the boxes off the stage? Do we stay with the boxes?

Do we do it? Like, where does he live inside of the boxes? and, you know, all of that. And so I love how his mind works and things, but I wouldn't call. All right. So I always think of this, the next time you watch Jay-Z's Can I Get a,

I was absolutely amazed that he basically just stands in place in the middle and only moves his arms and his shoulders. Yeah. I mean, the entire world is dancing around him and I always wanted to know, like, what happens when you're, given a client that like do you have to figure out the math formula like how much to supplement like okay they're not giving me much in terms of because the thing is we do tend to think of jz

as a charismatic right but it's almost like in that denierre level where he holds back from that charisma which makes it more yeah no yeah some people i respect that some people just don't want to dance, you know? I'm not here to make everybody dance. I see. So what's your favorite medium then? Because you've done commercials, you've done videos, you've done half times, you've done award shows. Yes. What is your favorite medium? Live shows. Stage performances, like concerts. And why concerts are my favorite. Like, you know, when I, the Renaissance was, was amazing. And I, I, love the way you can manipulate the arena, stadium, whatever you're in, theater, with the music,

with the dance, with the way the songs are laid out. I just love watching people have such a wonderful time live. And it always takes me back to my childhood. Jackson Five was my first tour. And I remember like laying out my clothes a week in advance and like just the preparation to it. And I remember having the seat way up, way up there. And that was my seed and they were super small. But I was up there screaming and jamming and dancing and my heart out. And it was just the best experience for me. And so I just always, whenever I do live shows, I think about those people that are way up there. And it's something that I do with every concert that I work on. I look up to see.

And if those people are jumping and screaming and dancing the same way the people who have front row seats are, then to me, I've done my job right. And I just love live. It's unpredictable and it's amazing. And people cry. I cry. And it's just you go through the gamut of emotions at a really good live show. just love it. I want to ask when you're casting this stuff, like, you know, what separates a good dancer from a great dancer? Like, what are you looking for? Um, I'm really, we, we dancers have to

learn a combination really quickly. Um, so we teach it. They learn it. We break them up and pieces. You know, a lot of times, it's, it's, it's their danceability, but it's also like their height and their, their size and if they fit with the other dancers and they create like it's a whole you know tetris game of things we're playing around with and but what really makes I think a great dancer and I always even though they learn the choreography and they have to do the combination I always ask them to freestyle afterwards because to me there's there's where the gold is when they start freestyling and they they move their body in a way no one else moves. They dance with such joy on their faces.

You know, we look for that. And that's what really makes a great dancer when they, you can just tell their love of dance, but also they've worked and found the things in their body that's so unique and that they're going to inspire me when I'm in the room working, you know? For me, your best gift is de-escalating any potential disasters. And the way that I've seen you literally with like, I'm telling you, my stomach was it not

because I'm waiting for this fight to set off. And, you know, because a lot of my questions in our group chat was like, yo, what happens when blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you were like, okay, don't worry, mirror. I'm going to bring out coach, Coach Robinson. And so what is your, you've always seemed like a Zen person to me,

but you, you are extra Zen in the last four years that I've seen you. So what is your morning routine? How did you get to this Zen place where you can handle a Renaissance, you were handling Renaissance and hip hop 50 at the same time. And this is coming from the guy. that has 10 jobs.

I'm a meditation. I'm a hang up and edit a movie right now. So like what is what is your secret? I think I've always been a pretty calm person. You know, when I wake up in the morning, sometimes I do this tea ceremony as a meditation. Sometimes I do that. I mean living in Ohio, I live down a road where there's no other

houses and there's no power lines and there's no neighbors. And so I get to wake up without like the hum and noise of the city and definitely moving to Ohio. I've kind of rewired my nervous system to just, there's places that I go and holidays that I take where I remember that that piece that I fine there and I just kind of like take it and and so I released little piece like that I've captured and in those moments it's because I've seen it so many times everything is going to work out it's just the process and everyone has a process of how they get to point A to point B really everyone You know, it's like Shakira's process is like like this and Locangay's process is like, you know, you know, like that.

And some people's process is just a little easier and you're like, okay. But it's like knowing there is a goal and that finish line what we're trying to achieve. And I always kind of try and make too, like, what am I trying to achieve here? Like what's the goal so that I always give myself like something to, you know, to, to thrive to, you know, and achieve. That really helps me. And, yeah, but I just, I mean, it's all going to work out. And the beauty about even, you know, doing live TV and stuff, I just love the unexpected and what can happen.

I don't love an artist dropping out, you know, an hour before performance and during the show. No, I do not like that. I think it's highly disrespectful to their peers and everything. But, you know, I've seen it all with hip hop, and, you know, we accept that hip hop is unique. And I just know how to deal with all the temperatures of the attitudes and stuff. Like, somebody in the room has to be calm about it. That's why that classroom scene was like perfection. That's why I was just perfection.

It was organized. beautiful chaos. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah, you're showing me here. I was talking about where you were. I was like, wait, what classroom scene? Yeah, yeah.

You're right. I mean, that was really, that classroom scene. I'm like, that's my, you know, that's my tribe. And so I wanted to see them as much as possible. And I didn't want to do the traditional, like, you come out, your song, you go away, you come out, like, let's support each other. And, and, you know, A lot of, I do a lot of work on myself as well, Amir.

And it just in that work on myself, I'm able to bring, you know, that Zen and peace and all that to the performances. I mean, I love Rick Rubin's book, The Creative Act. Did you listen to that one? Yeah, I got it. It's so amazing. I find myself, I listen to a lot of audio books because I have that hour and a half drive. But I find myself kind of going back to that book quite awesome. me if I don't have anything to listen to.

He just dropped some gems about where how the creative comes about and how you find it and all the things. And so, you know, I listen to a lot of books that actually help me in how I communicate with people too. I can learn from that. Look, I started with the question and I guess you gave me the answer and I'm glad you care. because you have such a thankless highly stressful, a very risky job where you have to be a people person and manage expectations and egos. And not now, but right now, like, you have walked through the fire, man.

And more power to you. I'm glad we finally have this conversation. Did we ask everything that we want to talk about the director directorial debut is coming. What can you share about it? Yes. Oh, well, it's a film with Universal. You know, it's still my deal is done, but you know, it's going through its little rewrites and this and that, but that'll be my first feature film. And I'm ready.

That's the, hopefully the next step for my career and still producing. I actually, you know, Jesse and them, got me into this producing world and executive producing, and I love it. Jessica Collins. Yes. Dionne Harmon. Mom and dad. Ashford and Simpson.

I'm going to see them tomorrow. Yes. Shout out. Tell us a couple of your projects we should look out for that you executive produce. Oh, well, I was one of the executive producers along with the mirror for hip hop 50. Okay. I've produced the Grammys before with them. I produced this taking the stage, the Obama.

performance that was a while back. So I'm enjoying it and I'm stepping more into it and I think more and more opportunities. But, you know, I want to do my story. I want to do my life. Like, I'm the new thing. It's like everyone wants to. I was thinking you was too young. I didn't know.

It was interesting because I was thinking she'd do her story. But I was like she's so young. I haven't done the story yet. And I think it's like someone needs to do the, I grew up in the clubs, clubs with my classroom. That's where I learned like all that. that the story of hip-hop dance. We got to find you a movie producer that can actually make that happen. Yeah.

Somebody out here. He's got to add to honey. Honey was the last one. I'm just saying. Let's make it happen. Fatima, thank you so much for joining us. And I'm not even like acting. Like, it's good to see someone that.

works harder than me. Like I feel like I'm lazy compared to to you. She looks like she knows how to relax, though, too. Yes, I do. She knows how to do that. I don't know what that is. Meat, more meat.

Anyway, thank you very much. On behalf of Sugar Stephen, new bill, brand new bill. New Bill. Montigolo, superior, Steve, in Laidue.

And, of course, our guest, Fatima Robinson. It's Questlove, Questlove Supreme, and we'll see you on the next go round. Thank you, y'all. This is Sugar Steve. Thank you for listening to Questlove Supreme. This podcast is hosted by Amir Questlove Thompson, Laia St. Clair, Fonte Coleman, Sugar Steve Mandel, and Unpaid Bill Sherman.

The executive producers are Amir Questlove Thompson, Sean G, and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Brittany Benjamin, Jake Payne, and Laia St. Clair. Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for IHeart by Noel Brown. What's Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away

with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast,

it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospect. from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes

franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12

and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. He's much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ernest, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone.

Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it. Open your free IHeart radio app, search Earn Your Leisure, and listen now. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.