The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Jill Scott (Part 1)

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

One of Questlove and Team Supreme's most anticipated interviews, Jill Scott, is finally here! Her relationship with The Roots introduced her to the world through a Grammy award winning song called, ��You Got Me”. Hear the story of how a talented girl from North Philly joined forces with some of Philly’s finest to stake her claim in this world of soul music and take it far beyond expectations into the lands of television and film. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme here on IHeart. First of all, our family.

What's up, Laia? Hey, yes. Hallelujah. How you doing? Why? why he gave me side eye already. Me? I'm not giving you sad eye.

I'm excited. Are you talking? No, no. I know this. Now, this has been a long time in the making. Yeah. Let me just bypass you guys. Zumpay Bill and Fon Ticcolo.

What up? Let's get into it. Yeah, we've been waiting for this episode probably longer than we care to actually stay on the record. I don't know why it's taken almost three and a half years for us to finally bring to fruition the Jill Scott. episode. I can't say enough about this woman. She helped me get my first Grammy, and I appreciate that Jill Scott. She saved my life. She gave me my first and only hit. Wow. Wow.

And only hit. No, ladies and gentlemen, no, for real, Jill Scott is much more than that to me. She's Actually, she's literally one of my favorite artists ever, accomplished poet, singer, actress, yes. Extraordinaire. Please welcome to Quest Left Supreme. Finally, one and only, Jill. Wait, Jill, what's your middle name? Nada. I'm going to look this up on the internet, Jill.

Wait, why don't we know your middle name? Like, wait a minute, Jill, did you take your middle name off of the internet? Yes. You did? Wow. Is it Barbara? She's probably got a black-ass middle name. I know. What is it? What is it? Renee. Hey, Renee. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Jill, Mabeline Scott. Yes. That's probably Mabel. Leontine. I like that.

I like Loretta. Loretta. Wait, are you trying to tell me that you? Your middle name will never be known to the world ever. If you search hard enough, you'll find it. Jill is really secretive. Like, she didn't even want to tell me where she was at. She didn't even tell me where her house was. Uh-oh.

He's really super. Not even a state. Yeah, not even a state. She ain't going to give me a state. No. Because you're a Philly for life. Yeah. No, Philly all day.

And what? I just like balance, man. I try to find a place of people don't know me at all for anything. And I go there and it's great. We have conversations about something and nothing. We get angry with each other and, you know, calling H-O-A on each other. It's nice. You're trying to tell me that you're in a circle in which people may or may not know who you are.

That's right. No, not impossible. They all white. I believe that. I can believe it. Yeah. It's possible. There's white famous and then there's black famous.

Yes. And I'm in the whole of white famous. Yes. And white famous and no income tax, no state income tax. All that made sense to me. An acreage. I was like, yep, I'm in. Wait, there's another place that's not Delaware that does this?

Yeah, I mean, I'm in Tennessee. Oh, good. She said it. I was scared she was going to beat us up if we said it. No. Oh, I'll like, yeah, I won't fight you. I promise. Nigger, I'm scared of you.

You know this. You always say that. The first song was getting it. Let me tell you about Vaseline and sing my earring off. I'm never forget. Wait, Jill, Jill, am I allowed? Oh, my God. Wait, wait.

Oh, my God. Story time, story time. Can I tell you all the first seven words I ever heard Jill Scott ever say? Oh, no. Okay, so Jill Scott is best friends with a mutual friend of ours, Leslie Arnett Pena. Leslie is the voice of, oh, on lazy afternoon. Or do you want more? It's a lazy afternoon.

Right. So I believe maybe this is when Leslie's cutting it. I'm not certain, but what I do know is that she brought her girlfriend down the studio with her. Now, what makes this even crazier, I'm not knowing that the guy that Jill was once dating is also currently messing with a roommate of. of someone that I lived with in the house that I was living in during the Do You Want More period?

This sounds like an episode of Insecure. This is so terrible. This is a tall, nigga? I'm sorry. This is so missing. But this is all I know. This is terrible. This is all I know.

This is terrible. I'm so mad. Not sight unseen. I sat down on the couch and she must have gotten the news that, that he did her wrong. And she said in the most, think of the most open. Oprah Harpo voice you can muster up.

You told you for that. I hate you for that. She said, she said, I'm going to cut his dick off. Jill Scott, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, that is it. Jill is your middle name, Heather. Heather. Oh, God.

I don't know what I was doing. Internet just told me. I don't know what I was doing. I was either in mid-shoe. I don't know if I was at my lunch or reading something, but I was like, oh, I'm scared of this woman forever. What happened to him?

What happened to the dude those dick was going to get cut off? What happened? Let's see, what do I know? I know that. Because I know my side of the story at the house. I can't tell you the rest. It's so bad.

I think this is that. limitations is that I think you can go in. Okay. So I went to the house. I went to the house and and she was there. At the house. Rahim, right? Sorry, go ahead.

Drinking my Kool-Aid out of the glass I bought. What? Yep. I happen to have a razor blade. Oh boy.

All right. This is a question of Supreme. Marna, thank you. Until next week, ladies and gentlemen. I love it. Yeah. Oh my God, keep going. Everyone lived.

Everyone lived. Okay. His wardrobe didn't live. Ah. His wardrobe didn't live. Did you cut up everything? And this was the throwback era. Everything.

All the jersey. The hockey jersey era. Everything. And not. Not on the scene. She happened to have. Wait, can I ask you something? Wait, you can, you can settle something for me, Jill?

No. Was he at all, was he at all involved in music? Because I have another issue with him. Three weeks later, now mind you, this guy is messing with a girl that lives in my house. And he stills my drum machine, dog. I put two and two together way after the fact. Like, you all. You all just Tarantinoed your way into my timeline.

And then I had to put the story together to realize what was going on. But he also, I have reason to believe that he stole one of my drum machines out of that house. Probably. And so, yeah, but that's how I meant. And that's how you met. That's how I met. That's the first thing I said to Quest Love. Yeah.

But the second time, Jill has made three grand entrances in my life before. before I even started a real conversation with it. Now, the second one was a little blurry because at the time I was at Richard Boudini's house. It was like a barbecue and whatever, and it was like a Spades tournament. And one of my greatest shames is also... You don't know how?

Not learning how. I learned late. It's okay. Right. So that part's a little blurry. But I remember Jill there. But the third time with meet and Jill was at a poetry slam in West Philadelphia. around 54th in Baltimore Avenue.

I don't remember this. You don't remember this? No. You, all right, so I believe either Trapita Mason introduced you, somebody, a fellow poet introduced you, and you cut her off before, it was like, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to bring up someone to the stage and da-da-da-da-da.

And then all of a sudden from the back, you went into Jody's freaking you. from the audience. So it was like, ladies and gentlemen, okay, that was Ursula Rucker of Richmondina. And,

you know, coming up next is a sister from North Philadelphia. Every time I close by. Exactly. She was right. But no, man, it was like,

you know how like Felicia Rashad over nonciates. Yeah. Words like, like her last name's Alan. like Felicia Ares Allen or Debbie Allen from the back of the room every time I close my eye

and we lost our ghost like who the fuck is this? And she's just like slowly walked to the stage. Like our tongues were collectively wagging like and I don't remember that at all. Did I miss out on Jill's sexy poet? Like her whole sexual poetry thing that.

Dog. You weren't there for that? No. Oh, I already was nothing to be fuck with. Yeah, 1999, I think you got to been 16. Aw, puddin. Oh, I always do it. Puddin.

There's a wink in there. No, but I believe two, three weeks later, this is when you got me sort of, you started coming around the Sigma with Scott. So. Nope. No. Jill tell a story.

No. She don't even remember Baltimore Avenue. No, I don't. I don't remember Baltimore Avenue. It was so much. poetry at the time. We were everywhere trying to earn $15 anywhere. Bob Mitz was birthday parties, theaters, libraries. I was everywhere just trying to earn a living as a poet.

So I really don't remember that. But I do remember the night I met Yo' ass. Now, we were on a, I'm trying to remember the brother's name. He had a small record store. And he closed the record store out for the evening so people could read. I think Rich might have been DJing. That was Rich's spot. Oh, Keith. Keith. Keith McPhee.

My current, my current product manager, Keith was still working for me 30 years later. Wow. It was Keith. Look at that. Okay. Keith had the layup. Yes. Yes.

In South Philly. Yes. So I think we were there, if I'm not mistaken. And I read something and I came off. And you said, do you write songs? And I lied. I said, yes, which I did not do. And you were like, okay, bet I'm going to hook you up.

You should come to the studio. Had I been to a studio yet? I don't even think I had been to a studio anywhere, except for the night I met you at a Sigma. Sigma. Sigma Sound where I met you. That was the first time I'd ever been in the studio. This will be the second.

So you hooked me up with Scott. Storch, who I knew only because I had seen him playing the keys at every jam session. Right. And every time that I saw you guys perform, you know, Scott was there. You asked me if I could write a song. I said, okay, didn't know how at all. And we sat there and Scott and I got blazed for like, I don't know. Like, how?

So you just weaned, you got me like you weren't an experienced song. No, not at all. But was that the first little bit of? Like you gave him your first draft or you yeah Wow yeah there were seven songs but you got me I still like that cassette you got me was number three There was seven songs you worked on seven sketches you got me was number three and when I heard it I said to myself This song's gonna change my life I knew 10 seconds in when you sang it I was like this shit's going to change my life and instantly ran downstairs to Dave I

and Scott happened to be there and we just cut it right on the spot because I knew I wanted to get it out the way before like Rich and Tarek caught demoitis I was like this song's gonna change my life so before Rich and Tarek here it in its current state and get demo I just and be like nope this is the version of that we're gonna I was like let me do the drums right now and then there's there's a whole another like eight hour story of even the battle of drum and bass music at the end. end of it. That was a battle. Oh, dog. Because then it was like, blue balls. Why are you ruining? Why are you going to ruin the song? Like just be like, Rich was rich was rich's whole join was like, look, stay straight ahead. Whatever. And I was like, no, this is a drum and bass song because initially I wanted the whole song to be that. And rich was like, yeah, that one. Keep it straight ahead and da-da-da. So, you know, and the compromise of it all was like, okay, at the end, you get your little prize at the, in the serial box. Okay, Amir?

We still waiting for that part two. Like, I just knew it was, I'm just, every time you talk about that story, I'm just say it should have been part two to that song. We had part two, part three. We ended up having so many versions of the song. Oh, Jesus Christ. You know, from live.

Yeah. On the things fall apart box at there. The $2 bill performance is probably still one of my favorites ever. In D.C., right? Yeah. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I was there. We are, we are, we're jumping the gun.

We're in 1999. Jill Scott. Yeah. Where are you born? Where are you born? At Albert Einstein Hospital in North Philadelphia. That ain't where you want to be born. No.

No.R-F. North Philly. Oh, N-O-R-F. Yep, North Philly. Where, okay, where in, because North Philly is anything above of Broad Street to me. Like, are you Ogott's Avenue or like what, what's like here, North Philly?

I'm 23rd in Lehigh. Oh. Yeah, Lehigh, Broad and Lehigh Avenue. Okay, that's banging now. What was it then? It was, it was the bottom. Yikes. It was the bottom, man.

That's near Jay Street. I don't know Jay Street. All right. It's near, I don't know. Shooting there. It was a big shooting, like really bad. Many. many, many shootings.

You know where Dobbins is? Dobbins Vocational High School. I taught there for a couple of months, but I lived around the corner from Dobbins. You were a school teacher, too? I'm an English teacher. Wow. Jill, we hardly knew ye.

Okay, so in growing up in Philadelphia, like, all right, first of all, how did you, because the thing is that if you're saying you're in North Philly, especially growing up in the 80s. Getting out of North Philly is an achievement on its own. Yes, indeed, sir. So what was life like navigating through North Philadelphia? You know what?

I really, you know, I know that it was tough. I know that there was a lot of murders. There were a lot. I lost a lot of like, well, we all lost, a lot of young men early. One summer, we lost like seven young guys. You know, I knew them all. They were drug dealers.

But I, you know, the drug dealers that I knew, they carried my mom's groceries home. You know, they wrote me poetry. They set on my steps and let me read them Edgar Allan Poe. You know, they were sweet to me. And I know it seems absurd to some people, but I had a very, very idyllic concept of the hood. It was beautiful. know, there was neighbors who played the guitar and kept their screens open. And so you can hear it.

There were neighbors that everybody swept, you know. And then, then crack came. Crack came like a thief in the night and just destroyed everything good. Not everything. There were still good people around, but it made it really hard. You know, I definitely got shot at. I definitely had to fight a lot. and then I thought a ways of trying to not hurt anybody

because I thought I was going to end up in jail if I didn't figure it out. So, you know, my mom took me to Juvie. I saw some stuff in there and I was like, okay, don't have to worry about me. She took you to Juvie or you went to Juvie? No, she took me to Jube. On some scared straight, John? Yeah, before there was a scared straight.

She was like, you should, you know, she didn't tell me where we're going. We just got on the 33. And we got off and ended up in Juvie. It was a whole bunch of girls that looked a lot like me that looked like they had been through hell in a basket. You know, I heard a couple of horrible stories about being in Juby and I was like, I'm good. Like, I have to find a way to survive without fighting, without having to defend myself. Because I don't, you know, I'm not the kind of person that just puts my hands up and we're going to fight and it's over. You know, I don't know how to stop because I'm kind.

You know, it might sound terrible, but I am. I don't want to hurt anybody. So I'm in a position where in order to survive, I'm going to have to hurt somebody pretty badly and they may not make it. So I figured out other ways. I speak to everybody. Do you have siblings? I don't.

Well, I do. I have a sister from my father. But you grew up the lone child in your household. Yeah. I knew I'm crazy. And so you didn't have the story of, I'm gonna get my cousin to fuck you up. Like, there's none of that.

My cousins hated my ass. My cousins, I hated me. Well, I could read through her words that Jill didn't have a problem being able to fight because that was the problem that you were, started being good at it. It sounded like, like you. It wasn't, I don't, I would never call it being good at fight it. It was, it was. You didn't lose too often.

It just happened to be carrying a razor blade. It just wasn't fair. You know, I didn't know how to stop. I didn't know how to win a fight and stop. So I don't really, I try my best not to be in that position. To the very end, to the bitter end, to the, you're going to jail end. And I didn't want that for myself. I was scared of it.

So I embraced every possible way to be kind and loving and open in my hood. So and try at the same time not to be a sucker, you know, to get played by the crackheads or by the drug dealers. But, you know, be friendly and be nice and be helpful where you can, but not give anybody money because you give crackheads money to come back the next day like a squirrel. You know, so, you know, trying to find that balance to navigate living or dying. And yes, it was very hard to get out of North Philly. So I worked three jobs. and did poetry and hoped that I could make some kind of a living. Got in Dobbins High School was teaching English.

It was dope. I loved it. But they weren't very helpful. Go ahead. You got in Dobbins and subsequently went back there to teach? No, I went to girls high. Okay. But I taught at Dobbins.

And I realized I wasn't going to make any money, which is so foul to this day, that I wasn't going to make any money and I wasn't going to have any kind of support. There's no support for teachers. My principal told me I was young and idealistic and I would get over it. And I quit. I quit everything that day.

Like this sucks. There's got to be something else. And then Ozzy Jones, I don't know if you got, y'all know, Ozzy? Yes, yes, yes. Ozzy Jones called me the day I quit everything and said, yo, there's an apprenticeship

at the Arden Theater company, do you want to try out for it? It's $150 a week. You're going to end up working somewhere between 14 and 16 hours a week, but you'll get free acting classes. And you'll learn everything about theater. What do you say? And I auditioned and I had several meetings and I was the oldest and the only black person in the building. One thing, begatting, nothing. Yeah. So wait, so no freedom theater, none of this stuff ever comes into your... No, I wish. I couldn't afford it.

Or singing in church as a young, like none of that? Didn't grow up in church. Wait, so that meant that story about you, it was a story about you, not being a part of freedom, but that, like, you actually used to help clean up and do stuff around the building. That's not true? The cleaning up part came later when I was in college. Okay. But that was, that was just because I thought it was dope, but I couldn't afford classes.

Where'd you go to school? Temple. Temple. What, yeah. Which one? I went for two years and I took off a year, went for three years, took off two years, came back. RTF? Were you RTF major?

No, no. I don't even know how many times I went to Temple. I don't. It was just a blur. I swear to you, I just was trying to finish to be the one in my family who finished school. And, you know, they ended up giving me a honorary PhD, which I took. And I took that shit.

Dr. Scott. I want that on my passport so bad. Like, I don't know how long I went to be doing a doctor. Dr. Scott. I'm trying to tell you. The first degree I earned after that, they gave me the next and the next foot. I'm cool with it. I'm good with it.

Damn, Jill, I would have known you. I had a chosen. Yo, I got in the creative and performing arts. I really would have known you. You could have went to Kappa? I got into both schools, to Girls High and the Kappa. And I was terrified. I was terrified of that neighborhood.

I was like, I already got enough kids. Now I'm going to South Philly neighborhood. I'm scared. Like they're going to kill me. They're going to try to. You said that like you straight Philly. All day. Philly pronounces scared.

S-K-A-E-R-D-T, scared. I was scared. I was like, they're going to kill me. I can't go here. That was at the audition. And I changed my mind and I got in as a writer. You were a creative writing major? I was a creative mind.

I would have been. She's a English teacher, yeah. I would have been, but I changed my mind and went to girls high instead. That is crazy. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So wait, did you know Sean in high school?

I did. We went on prom together. You knew Sean in high school? Wow. You and Sean G went to prom together? We didn't go to. Wait, what? That's what she said.

She just said that. Wait, don't you prom together? Yeah, but we weren't. Short Jee never told me that? You were Sean G's prom date? No, we went on a prom together. We all went and sat together. Same car, same thing.

Yeah. How many people? That's how I knew, Sean. It was me, my date, him and his date, and his date. So it was six of us. In an Alibaba limousine? That's right.

Wow. That's dope. I'm a dope story of you and Sean. Like, what an evolution. Yeah, I think I met him when I was 14. I had to be 14 or 15. I think I might have been 15. But I got pictures of young Sean in my office somewhere.

We need this. Black male material. Oh, come on, yo. Oh, wait. Ah, damn. Wait. Ah, damn. Shit.

Because I knew Sean's going to listen to this episode. I got some really good on Sean. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also and escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more

to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skisle of the skis. You might have seen the

skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you're not.

But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. They're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You got some tapes? You got some rap tapes? What do you got here? Man, I scow the earth for Sean's record. Oh, my God.

Are you going to pull that up? All right. Well, wait. I mean that. Here's the thing. No, I got it. And he, you know, like, he sounds like, it is straight. He's straight L.L. 85.

Like, you know, Fonte's eyes right now. Fonte, he said he talked to wreak his whole style. That's what he says. That's his claim to fame. He does say that. But the thing is that, Sean was like the family star. Tarreek at Fomo because like, you know, Thanksgiving, Sean has 12 and single out and was getting play on local radio.

Blawy B was like, you know, and Tariq was like, where they get a load of me. And then that's what inspired Tariq to like step up. I to the people that don't know that Sean and Tariq are cousins, because most people... Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But this is where it even goes deeper.

Angela Nissel, my... Angie. Former OK player partner and current writer at MixDish. One day she asked me for like some interstitial rap music. Like, do I know like a real cheap random rap song that's like kind of bad from like 1985, 86? Like when they do a flashback thing, like that time back in 1985, Yeah, and they played the music.

Right. And so I was this close to getting that song cleared on mixed dish, but I would have had to I would have to been the owner of the publishing to make it happen. Oh, damn. Oh, God. Yeah, because I wanted to be some thing where like so on was just watching TV.

And it just come out of place. It just heard his laugh. If you're now, wow, how can, how do I get this? Oh, instantly. Since I get off this. phone, I will send it to you. Oh, man. All of us, man.

We drop that hill. I've been saving this record for like the right moment to drop it. I've been saving this phone. You know what I want to. I mean, I want to hear the other six songs that Scott and I did. What happened to them? I don't know if you have them, but I'm curious. Yeah.

It's infillian. That was my first time with Scott, not having Babbage. Not having baggage. Right. Babbage. Babbage. Oh, Babbage. Right. Babbage. G13. Oh, sorry. Real weed.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Scott was on a whole other level. I was like, wait, wait. Wow. This is awesome. We called it white boy. This is. This is wonderful. This is a beautiful sensation. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was Scott at work. At what point, even though, you. you didn't have a traditional church experience or community theater experience, as most our guests do.

Like, where does music play in your life for at least the first formative years, like your first eight years? Like, what was the first record you ever brought or the first concert you went to? Were you allowed to have it in the house? Say it again? I said, was she allowed to have it in a house?

Yeah. Yeah. Wait. Yeah. I had a little glow in a dark record player. Yeah, I was allowed. Let's see, my first record, I don't know the first record, but I took the whiz to my third grade show and tell. And everybody hated it. I was devastated.

I knew something was wrong with those people. You played the whiz. Something's wrong with them. And they hated it. So you brought a record to school. Yes. And they didn't appreciate it as much. At all.

They thought it was awful. They booed. I was like, you're all insane. I'm out of here. I'm not, I'm not from this place. What was your jam? What was your jam on the record, Jill?

Oh, Brandon Day. Yes. You know how I know how you are about the Wiz Lair. I'll be, yes. The Whiz poster is in a frame above my son's toilet. I love you for that.

Yes. No. I think the Wiz is a great horror movie. It could be. You know what? I mean, in the beginning, yes.

The Wiz is a hard. sale. It is. You lived. One night, one night I just, I conducted an experiment. It was one of these nights where, where we had like a Thanksgiving run, like a tour. I had Thanksgiving off, but not enough to really like plan anything with family. So this time I was stuck with a bunch of people that I work with. We call them white people.

And I was wondering when you were going to say hello to me. And I was like, I want to see how white people react to the whiz. Ooh, this is good. Yo. Tell me. It freaked them out. It was to them, it was like an asset trip. Like, and watching the whiz through their eyes, then they were like, yo, this is the scariest

shit we had ever seen. No, as a kid, like watching the whiz and when Evelyne, when her nails, Nails go backwards and... Yeah, get the fuck out of here with that shit, man. That's just got to tell. That was not meant to be consumed. I think we were just happy to see black people. I think that's what it was.

We was like, we got Michael Jackson, we got Dana Ross. We're just happy to see black people acting. And the songs were good. Hello? Yeah, the songs were right. But the fours were so perfect. Black men can't catch cab in New York City. Yeah.

The young woman who can't get out of the house, you know, still living at home with her mama. You know, all of those things that were occurring, the poppy fields or the hookers on the street, you know, all of that. It was the metaphors were perfect for the hood. It was, it was wonderful. As a writer, I just fell in love. And then I met Quincy Jones. It was like, I just went to you.

The third grade. He was like, I hated that. I hated that whole process. He hated every moment of it. He and Charlie. Yeah. He and Charlie, they hated each other. Well, he hated Charlie.

because it's, you know what it was? Okay, as the elder statesman of this crew, because you all were three at the time when it came out. I'm saying that to watch, like the morning that it came out and to watch it in its first run, I had to stand, I had to stand in line for three and a half hours. You remember the Sam Eric? Oh, you saw it at the movies. Like, you saw it in the film.

Shut up, Ponte. No, I'm just saying, yeah. I was just certain things, and I'm just like, oh, shit. No, no, no, no, no. The whiz. I think now that I'm looking in hindsight, the excitement and the buildup to what the whiz was was probably better than the movie itself.

No. No, I'm not saying that it was a bad film. Because this is the thing we have to know. like Sydney Lament technically lost his career after the Whiz, like after batting out the park with like Dog Day Afternoon. Yeah, that was the one. Yeah, yeah. All these other films that he did, I think he did Serpico and the Whiz was seen as a failure.

Now, you know, and I also have issues with how black films are judged by non-black critics. Yeah. By higher level. So I know that there is also point. off of that of just culturally not understanding. Got a Tony. I mean, what are we talking about it?

I know, but the Wiz is a hard sell. Now, recently watching it, it's a hard sell, recently watching it. I realized what Jill was saying, like, oh, man, there's a lot of, the Wiz could also be like a self-esteem, motivational package. Like, because I saw it in a whole different light now

post therapy life coach and that stuff. And then I was like, oh, okay. I see the lessons here. Be a lion. You're standing strong and soul. Steve, have you ever seen the WIS? Oh, I've seen the WIS.

I saw the WIS and I saw the sequel, Wiz Witt. Wait, what? I thought that joke would do better. No. I don't say there was a sequence of the Viz. It's a sequel to Wizz of Oz, not the WIS. Come on.

try to keep up the whiz reloaded I wanted another one I really I still want another one but it couldn't okay so what's the second what's the plot line of the

of the whiz what's the second what would be the next the sequel in the whiz like what's the storyline it would have to be a lost Dorothy a lost Dorothy meaning she doesn't know

who she is or how to be she's trapped in a world where she's uh i don't know weaved out and uh um contacted and um so you're darthies in the 80s wow it may be but i think i think there's a lot of like that going on for our dark version of wicked just like they have it now you know what i love wicked that was awesome too because oh it was so good the sequel to the wizard of odds was like, yeah. What's better the movie or the soundtrack? Or the whiz?

Yeah. I'm gonna go with the movie. Because there's dancing elements. The soundtrack doesn't make sense unless you've seen the movie. And it's weird because the soundtrack is technically a story. It's a movie without visuals, which is why I think it was a hard sell for Jill to get a bunch of third. Kids to listen to it. Third and fourth grade class.

You were teachers Planning for them? No, I was a student. Oh, okay. Yeah, they booed. But home is awful. They live anywhere. Don't y'all think?

Home can live anywhere. Yeah, but what does that mean? What does home mean? Oh, the song. I'm just saying the song. Oh, yeah, anywhere. Anytime. Anybody.

But I wouldn't want to see, I wouldn't want to see, like, pop stars sing it. I wouldn't want to see, I would like to see, like grab some folks out of Juilliard, you know, and have them portray these incredible people to make it stick. So it has ribs, you know, not just, you know, fancy characters. I don't want to see that. I would like to, I would like Dorothy to have guts.

I would like her to be afraid. What was it like for you to perform in front of Michael Jackson at the 30th anniversary performance? Or was that just a weird experience altogether? It was a very strange experience. I got there and it honestly, it felt like no, was there about before Michael Jackson, no one. And that bothered me a lot because I had turned down a role with Denzel Washington to be there because I really, really wanted to honor Michael Jackson

and I was doing the whiz. So it meant a lot to me. And I got there and it just felt like nobody was about it. Like nobody was really there to honor him. And I remember getting on stage and now they've added other people to this performance, which really frustrated me, too. Great artists, but that's not what I had in mind. Anyway, long story short. Your idea was to do what? To do you can't win. To have the scarecrows, the whole thing, the dancing.

I think they had Fatima on board at the time to choreograph the thing. I wanted to present him the whiz, you know, the way that he did it. as best as I could with all of my heart. And that didn't work out. They kept adding other people and then added something from the Wizard of Oz to honor Liza Minnelly, who's his home girl. And I was like, what the fuck?

And I got on stage and I looked to the left and there was Michael Jackson. He was paper white. It wasn't like, it wasn't any kind of human white. He was, he was paper white. He was paperwhite. And I didn't want to look anymore. I was like trying to hold back tears during the performance because he was sitting,

Liza, not Liza Nelly, Liz Taylor was sitting on one side of him. And McCauley Cawthon was sitting on the other. He just didn't even look like a person. He was there, but when I tell you that color was not a people color, it just, it was, it hurt me. It hurt me. And I get off stage. and I'm all upset. I'm so upset and everybody's so happy.

I feel's crazy when you're in the midst of this business and something impacts you in a way, you know, you're in the midst of it. So I get off stage and everybody's celebrating and how great that was. And I can't even hear them. And then I turn my head and there's Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston. And Bobby, I mean, Whitney Houston, God, rest her soul, walks over. And I'm trying to get myself together.

And I look down and all I could think was that her knees were bigger than her thighs. My heart is racing. And I just, I cried the rest of the night. I just could not stop crying. I could not get myself together because these are people that I admired and respected. wanted them to be okay. You know, I wanted them to be healthy and and thrive and they just weren't.

They just, they just weren't. What year was this? 2001. And the next day was 9-11. The next day was 9-11. Was it two performances or one? Because I know there were. I don't know.

I only had, I did one. And then I saw it. It was on TV one night, years later. And I wasn't even in it. And I was like, did you ever get to circle back? And like, did you ever speak? with him? Did you ever get to have contact with Michael?

I just talked to him on the phone. He called me one time to say that he liked me. And, you know, that was in it. I was on tour. And he just called to say that he liked me and he was going to send me a hat that I never got. Aww. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't like that Michael Jackson thing. I know. I'm you've had you must have quite a few moments of like those industry clarity moments. I know Fonte has them all the time too when you just like, this is where I wanted to be. Man, this is

you mean as far as diminished returns are concerned? Yeah. I mean, just reality of this reality. So how long is it before it kicks into you? Now, I got into an unfortunate place where the only way that I could navigate my way through those

disappointments was to then lower myself and lower my spirit to a place where I constantly just came in. To be disappointed? Exactly. Which is really putting a band-aid over a bullet wound because it might help cope with that moment. But in the long run, that didn't service like my soul or my being and

enjoying life and that sort of thing. Because then, I mean, you do that for 10 years and then you become cynical and then you become evil and then you become I mean it's just levels of low self-esteem and all that stuff so I mean how long was it until like for for you was there ever a point where you're just like oh all my idols might disappoint me or let me not meet them and let me not take this phone call or have this lunch with this person

you know I didn't even know you can have access to Michael Jackson I'm like wait a minute you had you had Prince Yeah. Yeah, but even then, meeting him was a very big, be careful for what you asked for, because I mean, I'm not saying it was an idea. I mean, we had great moments where it was fun and it was like everything I dreamed about playing with my idol.

But there were a lot of, I mean, you've seen that stuff. There are a lot of moments that were like, oh, man, it was better off in my head, the idea of my head of Prince than what I got dealt with. There are a couple of things. One is I'm really grateful that I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness. I had posters of New Edition on my wall. I loved them.

I talked to them. My grandmother, I came home one day, and my grandmother took all my posters out. And she said, you're idolizing these boys. And I was like, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. And she's like, you're in there talking to them and telling them how you feel. They're people. No man is above you and no man is beneath you.

I was devastated and I didn't like my grandmother for a long time. That's real shit, though. That's real shit. Yeah. Damn awful love to cost you 20 bucks. This is the shits of it all. You have these dreams and you have these ideas of what the world is supposed to be like.

And it is what it is. So what do I do? I take the good wherever I can find it and I hold on to that as hard as I came. That's all I can do. The rest, I see it for what it is. And, you know, I'll forgive it for, because it's whack.

You know, I'll just forgive it. Because just because, and keep pushing, there's no need to hold on to that shit. It's disturbing and disappointing, but, you know. Hasn't been times in your career where it may have been someone that you met, like a younger artist or just anyone, where you think you may have came across the wrong way to them and kind of been a disappointment of them and you had to kind of go back and clear up and be like, yo, I didn't really mean it that way or whatever. Like, have you ever found yourself on that side of the transaction? I'm certain. I'm certain because I'm not, you know, perfect. I'm certain that they caught me in the middle of something and I'm trying to deal, just to deal. I remember this is an, you know, an advanced artist, but I saw Shakakan. I was so excited. I was like, oh, my God, you're so beautiful. You're a beast. I just love you so much. And I wear at the Grammys. I think I won that time. So I'm walking around like, oh, shit. You know, I wore the right shoes. I wore the right shoes. I wore a

flip-flops. You know, my feet on her, so my personality's good. You know, I was so excited. And one of her folks comes over to me and they're like, Ms. Kahn is upset with you. I said, Ms. Kahn, who says, Shaka Khan? I said, Shaka Khan is upset with me? What did I do? So I don't know, but I'm going over there to find out because it's Shaka Khan and I love her. So I go over there and she was like, you called me obese. And I was like, wow. Wow. Oh, Oh. Oh. But do you clear that up.

I'm glad you clear that up. I'm so glad that I had the good sense to go over there. We laughed hysterically. I was like, you know, I don't mean I hit it with the end. But like whatever. Like who got the gall to say that shit to you? Miss Conn. For real.

And me? Me. you know, how could I call? I was like, oh my God, this is crazy, but very funny. I'm so glad. These things happen. These things happen. So, Jill, what are the beginning steps that starts with you getting your record deal?

Wait, first of all, can you clear up something? I'll try. What was, is Hidden Beach Michael Jordan's, label. And I'm only asking this because I'm so obsessed with the ESPN 30 for 30 Michael Jordan. Last dance. Documentary thing. Yeah. I was, I think I was told that Hidden Beach was his label or something. Like, like, what is, what was Hidden Beach? Well, Hidden Beach, Stephen McKee, no, Michael Jordan invested in Hidden Beach. Okay. So he was, I think, like the major investor in the face of at the time. I didn't know if, if Steve McKee, I don't know if, if,

or Michael, if Michael, like, started the label and then had him run it or whatever. No, but it was, it was incredible to be around him. And, uh, he certainly put me in, in really nice rooms. Hmm. He was an active investor. No. Yeah.

Yeah. He kind of liked me a little bit and I was glad. Got a chance to see some things and taste some things. I didn't know existed. I was like, what is this you saying? That's going to go. Dope. Yeah, one of my buddies, a buddy of mine, a buddy of mine from down here, Charles Whitfield, he was around at that time.

And yeah, I've heard a lot of those stories, the MJ stories, they're wild. Ooh, y'all went to the boule parties. He hooked this up. The boule. Birthday parties, all that. It was great. I don't know boule. You're going to tell me later.

You're going to tell me later. Oh, the bouleigh, oh, the bouleigh is the black skeleton, bones and, you know, the black. Like Illuminati? Yeah, the black Illuminati, they called the Buley. No, like, they didn't want me. Okay. They didn't want me. I wouldn't.

I never. They recruited one of my D.C. friends. Bill, that's not for you to know, my friend. Clearly. Thank you. You don't know what I'm going to be Illamini, Bill. I don't want to join. The Secret Society.

It's the black skull and bones. The black skull and bones. The black skull and bones. Okay. They never wanted me ever. No, they didn't get either. I didn't get it. I didn't.

I didn't get my bully Evite. Amir's real quiet because he's in it. Listen. I might be in it. Tell us, Jill. So you've known Amir for a long time, longer than, you know, any of us have. Oh, God. How have you seen him evolve?

Who was the person you met, you know, 20 years ago? You might as well just ask like this question. No, no, no, no. She's next. how have you seen him involved? Wow, okay No man He loves talking about himself

In the beginning he was so quiet He hardly ever said anything to me He barely ever looked me in the face And Am I line? You would hardly ever look me in the face And I would come in and I was like give me a hug Give me a hug

And I had to you know like Actually We were very shy. Five years ago. Rich was more lovey than you were. Rich was a lovey. Oh, yes. What I fell up on the kids, though.

I didn't want to get sent to HR, yo. Do you know, do you remember you had played? I was on the road with you guys. You had played or something and you were really tired. And I was like, well, let me massage your ankles. Do you remember this? And I came to your room and massaged your ankles and you fell asleep. That's my job now, Jill, by the way.

just so you know Amir like I don't even let motherfucker see my ankles he's like very sexy he allowed me that time and he rested which is what I hope for he seemed so stressed and tired

and I was like can I was like is rare Amir did not rest so that was a big right right okay I have massaged a lot of people

in this lifetime just that's your game too I wish I remembered this It's just like I think I can help. I think I can help. It's not a great. I just think I can help.

That's all. Wait, wait, wait, wait, side note. Side note. Because Dill, wait, wait, side note, because the first time that Erica tells the story of didn't you know, she said the same thing about Dilla. And I hit him, I'm like, wait a minute. You had a massage by Erica Badoo when you was making, like, she was a massage.

him as he was cutting up chopping up the samples. Yeah, yeah, the joy. The Tariq Blue sample. He's like, I don't remember it happening like that dog. It was, it was a charm life. Anything but sweetness. It was good. And you rested, which, thank you.

I'm probably at the, the happiest place of my life right now, Jill. So that looks good on you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Take that on pay bill. So shot a sweatshirt wearing motherfucker But she's tone the tech, though. So now that we did all the soft and mushy,

can I just ask because y'all missing part of the story. Because I know that Jill ended up on tour, singing, you got me. But how did we get to the point of the different vocalist? And then I want to know who's going to get to play it on the verses. Here's the deal. Oh. Yeah, I want to hear yours. Here's the deal.

So what I remember was, Joe and I had a lunch date and do you remember us going to Copus 2 on South Street? Yeah. Yeah. Jill is one of six people whose demo I actually listened to and actually liked

like envy that it wasn't mine. The other, and I've said this story before, the other acts were Blau Slum Village, Little Brother, Jill Scott, Georgia and Maldrow. Hey, have she been around that long? That one. That was six.

Jay Davy J6 I'm missing one of You said to me No I heard I never let you forget He told me I would never sell a record No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no I forgot I forgot

Now first of all this is me This is me Does that sound like me or is that sound like Rich Nichols That was you It sounds like you Shut up, Steve. Wow. You hit it with the temptation.

You're nothing but I'm Wait, Jill, you brought this up before. You brought this up. You brought this up. And I, and I have issue with this. I don't think I ever said that. Alternate facts.

No. Alternate fact. Listen, I remember sitting at the table. You handed me, your disc man. Yes, it was 1998. I still have that, by the way.

And I remember, first, I was like, wait a minute. There's someone else in Philadelphia making music. First of all, I was envious to the tracks because I didn't know. You are skating around this one song. I'm just trying to get this. I'm not. No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to get to that.

But this starts at Copas. Okay. This starts at Copas. And she said that I said, that's never the start. I don't think that ever. Oh, alright, all right. Hang on.

Like Joe Biden right now. I'm the king. Jill, I'm the king of my thoughts and my words being on the opposite sides of the town. But I don't think there's ever a time in life in which I was not your biggest fan. So why isn't that her and Eve? I'm just, just come on. I'm going to get to that. I'm going to get to that.

Okay. I don't know that story. But Jill, no, no, no. but Jill has always said that in the beginning, I wasn't fully supportive. I said that she would never sell anything. Only because I don't think that I thought that, or maybe I just thought like,

oh, this is so good that maybe mainstream. Yeah, yeah, I could see that. That mainstream audience won't get this, but I was instantly in love with it. I've heard you tell this story about Badoism. I haven't heard it about Jill. Damn, you told her she wouldn't make it without you neither. He didn't say you make it out.

See, this is how it starts. No, no, no. What I heard was you saying, I've read in a magazine. I think it was vibe or something. You heard body wisdom and you were like, yo, I like it. But will, you know, the hood get it? We're just regular. I tend to think the things that I love isn't necessarily palatable to mainstream America. And that's fair.

I was wrong. So maybe that's what I was trying to say. but I, in no way was I not, I want to, I want to repaint this history between you and I, Jill Scott, and say for the record that I was your, I mean, if I took a lunch date with you about your music, I've never invited no one to the studio, but you. And that includes DeAngelo and Erica and anyone else I've worked with.

You're literally the lone human being. Well, you invited DeAngelo, he just didn't show up, right? He did for five minutes, they left. And so, all right, now, you know, I finally heard that quote. Oh,

I was listening to that. That's all he said on the main show. Classic. I heard that quote. It's an inside joke. All right. So now for Laia story. All right.

So the story you got me is, I hear it and instantly know that this, this is going to change my life. I run downstairs from Jill Tarsia's room where Scott's playing it for me. Me, Scott, and Rich are listening to the results of him and Jill

and we're like, that's the one. And instantly, I told Scott, stop playing it because I don't want Rich getting demo at us. We ran downstairs. I did it. So the German-based argument was probably like a three-day thing. And I was like, okay, great.

I'll just do it the regular way. I won't put any fancy, smanty things on it. And I'll do it. We do the song. It's fucking awesome. So we go to New York. And this is what Rieks vocals on and everything is done and done. Or this is just the backing track.

You know what I think? I think he struggled with the last verse. So I know. All right. So we have other issues going on. Oh, okay. All right. So here's the deal.

Communication in the Roots banned in 1999. wasn't to motherfuckers like why y'all we know we know about communication we know here's something that you guys don't know

communication in the roots band isn't two ideas so here's the all right so snack number one and you got me okay number one I mean we've made it very public Malik's codependency problem is now

becoming a major problem for the band there have been situations of fights and money and all this stuff and I'm sort of like well is he or isn't he what's he doing is he drinking too much da-da-da-da and then you see vows of white powder and shit and so we're dealing with that type of drama so something happens that gets us kicked out of Sigma because of Malik so now vocal vocal uh headquarters are now at Larry Golds at the studio. So problem number one is we're not all in the same place at the same time working and interacting. So now it's like a factory. Joe Tarsi is still likes me because of my his history with my father. So sort of like a mirror you can stay. But you know, Malik and all of his running buddies and all that stuff they got to go. The niggas got to go. Right. Right. So all

music's being tracked at Sigma and then we send them to 7th and Callahill to the studio to be recorded. So while that's happening, there's also a third factor is mixing. So between mixing with Axel Neos and Bob Power. So in the morning I'm tracking and then the evening I'm mixing in New York. Suddenly I'm getting these tapes and I'm hearing this girl like, wait, and I'm calling Rich like, Wait, who's this female voice on track 14 doing atlips? And he was like, you know that girl, Eve, that's her. And so I'm like, oh, man, come on.

Oh, you didn't even have a part in the Eve part. Oh, wow. I didn't know what he was. I didn't know what she was. Wow. That's kilo, that's kilo. No, that was Rik, ML, and Kamal. And, I mean, look, by this point, and we're totally skipping over, like, the jam sessions

that are happening at the house, and everyone being at the house. So Jill's a presence, Jaguars are presents, the Jazzy Fat Nassies are a presence, news are presents, occasionally, you know,

10-year-old Jasmine Sullivan's a presence. And at some point, then suddenly it's like, okay, Eve, and at the time, you know, it was like her and her girlfriends

that she was stripping with or whatever, like they come to the crib, Malik's bringing over these dudes. I don't know. They're putting their shit out on my car, I mean, it's Beanie and and Chris and Neef and those guys. But I don't know them from a can of paint and they're putting shit out on my carpet. So I started hating the jam sessions.

So once it hit me, wait, wait, this is the the stripper joint, like the join with the short hair that's on this record. And Rich was like, yeah. And now I'm like, oh man, we're about to do that. Like come to the studio and and I'm like this. This is, this is like, I don't know how I feel about, like, no one had a meeting with me about people on the record. So that's what communication started getting bad.

So that was ain't saying nothing new. So it was like, okay, I'll put her ad libs down because I'm just like, who, no one had a conversation with me about it. So you got me time. Now I'm like, wait a minute, who's this wronging on the thing? And it was the same situation. And I was just like, yeah. Like y'all just putting people on this record and not saying shit like this is our hit like now we got we already have a

a voice on here and now what now another person's doing a wrong like this is our one chance to hit this ball out the park they can only be one unknown and now there's like four entities and like what do we do so that shit caused our like a three week debate argument, whatever. So we get the song done. We're playing, we're playing it for MCA. And now they're like, okay, we believe in the song, but, you know, the girl sings good, but we feel like you should have a name to really do that. And we're like, no, like, she's killing this shit. She's killing this shit. So then it became a group meeting of like, you got me just started to be a nightmare to deal with. Tarek didn't have a thing. third verse. Now it's like, wait, so now we got a, or who's going to tell Jill?

Who told you, Jill? No one. Bitch, no. What? He was on the radio. He was on the radio. She was like, who is it, bitch? Nobody told me. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and business. And, building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory.

We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side. a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined,

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wow. Nobody told me. Hey, guys, Muppet New Flash. Communication wasn't the best. Wait, wait, I want to make an announcement. I want to make an announcement.

Communication was never the strong point. There's a rumor. And it wasn't even like a mean-spirited thing. It was more just like, oh, he'll do it or he'll do it or I got other shit to worry about. Ask Jill when she heard it. I remember. All right, I'm just saying that.

I like their logic was like, yo. You know, I've heard stories of like, well, she wasn't marketable. It's okay. This of them, it was like, yeah, she sings great, but she's unknown and Burnham beat two in the push and Erica Badu said yes and you got to do it. And then me and Bob Power and Tarik, we flew to Dallas, which at that point she was literally, it was still, I think we did, you got me maybe early 98 because I know that Dre 3000, when we got to the studio, Erica just finished whatever she.

she was singing on Outcast's liberation. So Aquim and I wasn't out yet. So I feel like this is early 98. We get there, we do it. It was cool, but I didn't have the fire in my soul that I felt with Jill's version. At one point, midway, Erica stopped and said, yo, her version is jamming, yo. Like, why don't y'all just use her version? And I was about to agree.

And Rich was like, you know, Rich's whole thing was like, look, let's say A, B. Like just attempted a few times and whatever, you know, you don't work. If it doesn't work, then da-da-da-da-da. But knowing good and well, like, I'm not leaving here without your vocal. Without this version. Because I was kind of ready to give it. And it was not- Who gets to play it? Amir.

Amir, who gets to play it this week? Who should get to play it this week on verses? First of all, will this episode even be- It does not matter. People will still want to know. I just need to, this is after this is, yes, this will be afterwards. But still, who gets the right to play? Well, there's two versions of you got me.

So Erica can play her verse. from things fall apart and then Jill can play in her version not that $2 bill shit from things fall apart I say I would say Why you say not $2.00 bill? It's because you did opera jazz, blues

No anybody, that's a whole It's long. It is long. Jill's version of you got me is also on the things fall apart It is. 20th anniversary reissue. So it is.

I think that's rather cute. Go ahead. I think it's adorable. I was going to say I think two things. One, I think Jill should get to play it because she wrote it. Two, I would like to offer my hot take that complexity. Complexity is a far better song than you got me.

That's just me. Let me just start there. That's about complexity. Because I must give Jill props for complexity because complexity is a very hard word to sing. And you enunciated that so well. I do enunciate. And yeah, complexity is my joint. That's like my favorite Roots Jill joint.

I love that fucking song. Thanks. You know, it's a weird, we knocked that off in like 15 minutes. I remember us knocking out very quickly and me actually thinking like, wow, this was not the, like, thank God, this wasn't the drama that you got me was. Was there, was there lyrics to complexity when I came in? I don't remember. No, but it just hit me. It just hit me. You were one of the 14 for the, oh my God, we did. You know what? Complexity was so. easy. It made me forget the drama that was that you got me. Not you got me. The break you off. Oh, to break you off with the... Oh, no.

I remember that. And you know what's weird? This is so weird to say this on the air. Jill, you wrote that bridge. Break you off? I forgot. She wrote that. Did she get that credit, niggas she get that? That's what

I'm thinking about right now. Like, wait a minute. Now, now What was your time for all apologies that you have been wanting to? Wait, I could actually, I could do a whole episode alone on the drama that was Break You Off. By the time it got to Jill, it wasn't even break you off. It was Magic Fawcett. Whatever it was, your metaphor, magic falset.

Magic Falsit. Yeah, wait, Jill, you don't remember it? Tough for the thing. It sounds like an old Jill Scott poem. Okay, so you know the second part, you know the second part that the second part of the song that music sings. Baby, baby, baby, baby. Right. He changed the words, but that was, that was Jill's course. And it was like, okay.

It was some sort of metaphorical, uh, definition of whatever, like, I'll, you know, stroke something. and then your faucet will be turned, you know. Metaphor. I wrote that. I wrote that. I wrote magic faucet. The only part they kept was the baby, baby, baby, baby. And then your words were different.

Oh, I think, I think carbon. It sounds foreign to you, Jill. Like, I think. Magic faucet. It sounds elementary. No, you, you, you, break you off started with weird enough. Kiki Wyatt about to

Taree. All right, who's the guy that invented the king of comedy? Oh, Stan Lathan? No,

no, no, but the guy that that promoted the other black Steve Harvey not Adolf Schaver God,

with the twins. Bill Hamann? Yeah, Hayman. Not Bill Hayman. Al-Haman, Al-Haman, but

whoever that guy is that, I mean, he's the Will Packard of kind of Al Heyman Jr. For the comic, he's the reason why Harvey, Steve Harvey and Mac and all those

Cedric the entertainers are the stars they are now. He's the one that threw the Kings of Comedy that Spike shot. He had an idea to have a black S&L and we shot that pilot in 2001. And it was like the roots were the house band. Think of S&L. We shot a four.

blown up with earthquake and whoever the black comedians were that were popping at the time shot this thing and the roots were the house band and kiki white and music were sitting in with us and just fucking around that's how break you off gets birthed and it was like hey that's all we did the sound check that was pretty cool and let's do it and so then it went from music to i think alicia had stood us up seven times and then jorl avert did his version who he technically the best version. I want to hear the Gerald version. Then Jill wrote it and then that didn't work out.

And then I think Renee. I was supposed to have a baby with him. With Gerald Albert? Yep. That was my plan. I can so see that happening. That should have been easy. That was my plan.

It was also Frankie Beverly. No, no. Oh, wow. I had three. George Benson, Gerald Lavert. Does he make babies? And Frankie Beverly. I don't know.

When I was 12, that was my list. George Benson at 12 George Benson that mustache with the okay maybe y'all really do mature old I thought he was fabulous because I wasn't 12 years old thinking about fucking Aretha Franklin

that shit Yeah yeah By then when I was 12th though Right right right Yeah but yeah That song went around the world Then it went to

Bilau's version was the most curious Because he was crying on his version And then somehow just wound up back to break you off. But yeah, it's so by the time all that was done, then yeah, complexity was done in like 10 minutes. I love that song. I love that song. I like it when it's easy like that.

When it's you don't even think about it. It's just happening. That's so fun. And then you go on to the next thing. So how did I hear about it? Yeah, how did you hear about it? I was on 22nd Street. I was in North Philly.

I think I think I was probably headed to my theater job. I don't know. I'm not sure, probably. And it was coming out of one of the hair beauty supply places. It was on, you know how the way. It wasn't on the radio yet. It was on the radio when I heard it for the first time. When she heard it, when she was on the radio when I heard it for the first time.

We are horrible. We trash. Wait, wait. She still got to publish. We played the record on the radio. Wait, no, no. It was on the, it came out of the stores on 22nd Street. I was coming to getting probably a perm or something.

And I was walking from the beauty supply place. It was coming out of every store. And I heard the beginning. And I got all excited. I was like, oh, shit. I'm about to come on. My inner, you know, my inner self, I'm just so pleased. And nobody knows that I was like, oh, my God.

And even when it comes on, nobody's going to know it's me. I'm so excited. And then I heard a voice that was not my own. And I was like, motherfucker? That's Erica Waddu. And I'm looking there's nobody to talk to.

I don't know anybody. I don't know anybody. I can't share this story with anybody. There ain't no cell phones yet. I mean, I were cell phones. I think I think I just walked to the end of the block. And by the time I got there,

I was like, Erica Badoo is singing my song. Okay. I thought I was going to go to witness protection program. No, no. As a writer to go from Zip to a Grammy Award winning singer singing your song, like I was like, I'm in. I'm in.

I can't even deny that. And then you guys were like, well, let's take her on the road. And then I had that horrible lawyer who tried to gank y'all for all of this money. It was horrible. Luckily, we were able to work that out. I didn't even know. Oh, it was terrible. She was just trying to bleed you dry to sing a hook to one song.

I didn't do anything else, but sing one hook. And then you took me on the road and treated me like a newbie and left me in Paris. Wow. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That came through a mirror. That came through. I don't know if you heard that. Wait, what happened?

The roots are bad to you. They left you in Paris. You left Jill in Paris. There was a ticket at the desk for me to go home. Luckily, luckily, I got the ticket and had to figure out how to get to the airport because you know the French, they don't like if you don't speak French. Straight up and down. They found a way to get to the airport through the airport.

At the time, they didn't have English translation on anything in the French airport, in the Paris airport. I'm blaming to your day. You hear you. You could. You could. Left my ass in Paris. And I learned everything. I learned everything from you.

I'm not going to say I'm here, but from the roots. I learned how I don't want to travel. I learned how I don't. We are, janky. I love it. No, I don't know about how you are now.

But I learned how I do. Listen, I got beams in the house. They put me. in a hotel that it was across the street from their hotel. I think we were in Detroit. And they said, your hotel is over there.

And I was like, over here, they were like, yep, right across the street. Clearly, the smell of cigarette smoke was so strong. When I walked in the front door, I was like, I got to take a shower. I got to take a shower. I'm on a bus full of dudes. I can't. I got to take a shower. So I go in the room and-

We trash, man. And it's, you know how it's when the woodworks have been painted again and again and again and again. Yeah. The bed I questioned, I was like, okay, I can't do that. So I took all the towels and I put them into and I shower it and dried off with my clothes and got out of there. But while I was in the shower, I had my luggage up against the door because on the outside, they were like, I told you, back, I gave my money.

I had my motherfucker just barking on. So hold on. So let me understand it. So this was a hotel, this was a motel. Like you opened the door and it led to outside? It led to crazy house.

It was a small house with winding steps that they called a hotel that I think they used for prostitution. That was a damn halfway house. It may have been. But that's where I was staying. Yes.

Damn, come. Yes. explains a lot because I met you on that tour in Switzerland and I was like, man, she's showing short with the, hello, nice, okay. So she was, yeah. Damn, y'all had Jill in the lack of want a blues house and shit.

You guys, I feel like everybody has to have, they have to be haze to a certain degree. You have to. I didn't even know. It's a right of passage. It was the same way with theater, is the same way

with this business, is the same way with touring. Y'all would do this. This is my favorite. You never, you didn't smoke, but the guys would be like, yeah, yeah, man, so, so. And throw it right in your face. Oh, Tarreek is good for that. Oh, Tarik, Tarik, don't share, no, he is admittedly so. He don't. It was, it was everybody. The only person that was nice to me, Kamal was nice to me. Yeah. And, um, Kamal was nice to me and Hub would occasionally, hub. No, that, we did, you know, we did it. Okay.

he is. All right, so good. Okay, there was a gentleman there. Okay. They played an instrument for strange. Yes, yes. Occasionally, he would tell me, you're doing okay. And I'll say, okay. Other than that, that was it.

I learned so much. Wow. I learned so much. Thank you. Did I ever tell you, thank you. Did I ever tell you thank you so, so much? You changed my life. I feel like this is, I feel like if we had the sound bite of Ms.

Sophia saying, A woman ain't chafing a house full of me. Damn. Yeah. That's the roughest tour I've ever been on. And you had to maintain that fro, that whole tour. That pro was beautiful. That pro was beautiful.

It made Bahamadilla go, wait, is somebody fucking with me? I feel like that pro was. Yeah. My barber had my hair looking like feathers. It was gorgeous. Man, remember barbers. Yeah. Oh, man.

Yeah. Thank you. So Jill, damn it. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. I'm okay.

I mean, everything happens for a reason. Nothing and none of this would have happened if not for the other thing. So right. It's like our first real extended conversation has lasted more than an hour in our 20 years of knowing each other. Now I understand why she ended up working with Jazz and Jill.

Oh. Ladies and gentlemen, you hate to hear it. I hate to say it, but you know, hey, it is what it is. That's only part one of our two-part interview with Jill Scott. Next week, we promise you, promise you more, more and more Jill. I know, I know. It was cool, right, and then I had to come in and, I know. Anyway, QLS.

We will see y'all next week with part two of Jill Scott. Thank you. Of course, Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart radio, visit the IHeartRadio at, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs

when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side. a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWA% on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to be. to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.