The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Larry Blackmon of Cameo

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Larry Blackmon has carried funk music across generations. He tells Questlove Supreme about his role as a visionary, piloting Cameo's transition from the '70s into the '80s, and connecting Bobby Brown and Teddy Riley.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you

won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. Hey, what's up, y'all? This is West Love Supreme. It's kind of awesome.

I've been knocking out bucket list after bucket list. of all the drummers that have influenced my life. Time out. Let me say what's up to the Team Supreme for starters. Sugar Steve, where are you at right now, bro? He's in the elevator. Wait, you're at your apartment already? Yes, sir.

I live a walking this. You ran home? No, I briskly walked. I think you live 10 New York City blocks away from where we work. So you're a speedwalker then. Anyway. Fontegalo, what's going on, bro? I'm good, man.

I'm cool, man. Pran, send him on up for Laia, man. I hope she gets better. She hurt her leg today. So, uh, that's right. Probably, probably won't make it. But, uh, yeah, hope you get well, work wife. We're praying for you.

Yeah, we are. We're playing for you. You know, I'll say that our guest today is, well, I feel like all of our guests on Questlove Supreme are legendary, legendary, but our guest is definitely a legendary trendsetter. in both music and fashion. Yes, the red codpiece. We cannot state that enough. I'll say that, you know,

once behind the driver's seat of, I think at its most, maybe 14-piece funkatorium called cameo, and, you know, I'm dying to know how a per diem was handled back in the day, but, you know, having been of age to witness this band

in their first incarnation as a 14 piece. I got to say that these brothers definitely took entertainment like to the next level. Their live show had to be seen to be believed. If you can,

there's a clip of them on there's a show I used to watch as a kid called Don Kirsner's rock concert and, you know, the first incarnation, for those of you that remember when cameo just wasn't a quartet

or a, know, or a trio, that's one for the history books. But I would like to note that while many of the bands that were, you know, from the 60s and the 70s, they kind of found the transition to the 80s a little difficult to make. And our guest today and his band of brothers not only found kind of a way to coexist with a new art form that was really much great. going to eclipse black culture in general. And of course, I'm talking about hip hop.

I will say that our guest today probably pioneered what we know is new Jack Swing, basically by embracing a hip hop attitude, you know, clearly like a year or two before Shaka's I feel for you, three years before Teddy Riley sort of figured out the magic combination. Neck and neck with Jimmy and Terry. Shout out to Jimmy and Terry, of course. you know, we discussed was control the first new Jack Swing album, like the idea of hard drums and soul music.

But I'll say for many, you know, of those albums in the 80s, like She's Strange, Single Life, especially the timeless and still, you know, gets much play today like songs like, you know, word up and candy. I will say that this band has gotten to go places that allow their contemporaries like the Commodores, the Ohio players, the OJs, the Barcais, Mandrell, named them, really wasn't able to make that transition. And we're just honored. Again, thank God for DMs. I shot my shot. And it happened. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Questlove Supreme, the one and only. Larry, ow, Blackman, down there in cameo. What is up, my brother? How are you?

That's pretty good, Chris. I appreciate you having me on, man. It's a pleasure. I appreciate you, you know, making this happen. Where are you residing right now? Where are you talking to me from? At the moment, I'm talking to you in a place called Atlanta, Georgia. Hey.

So you still reside in the A? All right. No, no. No, I reside in Henderson, Nevada. Okay. Vegas. But for other family reasons, I have been here. off and on for a minute.

And as you know, New York is my home, no matter where I am. Okay. I feel you. I'm zipping across here and there, man. You know how we do it, you know? And I happen to really enjoy that Juneteenth celebration. It was on CNN, man. I saw you. And, you know, you're one with a few drummers that respect the pocket because without that it's nothing.

You taught me well, man. Yeah, that's funny, man, that you're from Philly because that's when I really started, I went to Edison there. I heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess you know a little more about me than I know about myself, but...

No, I'm not just a, you know, I know candy, and I know you wore a red jock strap. I know Camio, man. I've read interviews and, you know, for me, as a professional, this is 30 years in the making. Like, the fact that we haven't crossed paths yet to me is crazy. But it is. I know a lot about you.

Because you have so much history, man, I might as well, I've got to immediately dive in. Can you tell me in your life, what was your first musical memory? My first musical memory. Yes. your life? I was about five years old and my aunt was staying with us in New York. She was from Augusta, Georgia, and her brother's sister. And she always talked about the Apollo and she took

me to my first show there. So my first musical memory was, I guess being about two rows back from the stage and observing Sam Cook. That was first musical memories. And then she tells me the story about after leaving there, I broke away from her running down the street and almost ran across 7th Avenue and came close to being met by a Greyhound bus. And she didn't think it was that funny.

But she said I would laugh and let her catch up with men and then break away and run that much more. And that had nothing to do with music. But being that my first musical experience was there, I was like, and then after becoming old enough to make it there myself, I used to play hooky from church and because the matinees on Sunday for years. Okay, so do me a favor because this is like a rabbit hole. show where we nerd out on information like that. Could you please walk me through, like, a typical day where you go to the Apollo? Like, how much did it cost?

Like, where would you sit, the acts that played? Like, can you walk us through a typical Apollo? What year are you talking around? Is this the 60s, 70s? Oh, my God. This had to be the 60s. Okay. A typical day was, you know, parents would give us these envelopes.

We were members of the Union Baptist Church on 145th between 7th and 8th. Okay. We would go to church. I would take my sister. She was about five years younger than me. And we'd go and we'd wait until offering time, which we would take the envelopes and put it in plate. And after the plate went around and everything, there was something else that happened. They would play music, but do something.

But I would give her the signal and then we meet in the back of the church if she wasn't sitting with me. And then I would take her across the street to my cousin's house, leave her and take the 8th Avenue bus to 125th Street and go up to the Apollo. But anyway, they had mayonnaise on Sunday. There were two shows on Sunday. And I would catch the earlier show. And my seat was, if you're on the stage, you look to the left, and the first balcony right there, that was my seat. Okay. And it didn't have my name on it.

And strangely enough, I was never challenged about where I sat. And that went on for years. I've seen every Lake Great performer. Name him. Of color. I mean, everyone from, okay, Sam Cook, Jackie Wilson, Flip Wilson, of course James Brown now. I mean, come on. And the lines went around the corner in both directions, all the way to the rear of the theater.

Became acquainted with a couple of the master of ceremonies, goodness, names. I can't think of some of the names right away, but I don't think, and I've seen everybody, Ray Charles, BB King, Benny King, Joe Tex. For you, who was the act that really grabbed you the most, like, when you saw them?

Like, for you, is it just like, I'm bored, let me go see what's at the Apollo, or, you know, was the music calling to you, or was it just something to do on a Sunday? No, I did that. I was, I was totally captivated by everything that happened. And I don't know if you have any memories of the Apollo, but they used to show a movie before the live acts. It just grabbed me. I mean, every Sunday, that's something I did, like clockwork, wasn't discussed, didn't feel as if I had to. I just had to see whoever was there. The one show I did not see was the Jewel Box Review.

Didn't even know what it was until some years later. You know, I never questioned that. But, man, I was there and, you know, turned into friendships with five-stairs-ups with Kenny and Clarence and family. And, man, I mean, I remember times when a Jackson-Farstuffs, were there when Michael was running around backstage up and down the stairs. And on Germain, you know, if you know, Jermaine, you know, he was the protector. Right.

And, you know, just to get to know those guys on a one-on-one basis was, I enjoyed that a great deal. So you were just allowed leeway, like, throughout the theater or just... The more people noticed me. I was allowed to enjoy what I enjoyed doing. And that was, you know, it was a weird thing. I cannot even remember how certain things turned into friendships. But I did that. That happened a lot.

At the Apollo, how many of these shows would occur a day? Is it just one long concurrent show from like, would a typical show just be like a two-hour experience? And then they get rid of people. and then you come back? Yes, it was like that. I believe at one time, I understand, there were several shows a day. Okay.

Prior to my attending, but I would remember at least two shows, and they would add a show according to whatever was going on. I watched the documentary on HBO, and a lot of it, I remember it, But some of the acts that were there prior to my going, I heard a lot of things. And then amateur night, I believe, was on Wednesday. Right.

And that was a gas within itself. It was Apollo to me was a finishing school, if you want to call it that. But that's where I really cut my teeth. I remember George Clinton, Parliament before. It became Funkadelicment. I remember the first show when it became that. Right. And of course, George was wild,

as we've always known him to be over the years. But there was a group called Flamingos that had a song called Funky Broadway. And that was the group that, as far as drums were concerned, that turned me out. that solo at the end of Funky Broadway was the solo you had to play if you were. Wait, not-Dike-in-the-Blazers.

Dyke and the Blazers and there was an act called the Flamingos. Dijk and the Blazers was one thing, but the Flamingos, it was called the Battle of the bands or groups. Right. They were from the Manhattan's, Parliament, Parliament, and a lot of other acts. Can I have something, the incarnation of the parliaments that you saw, have you, has funcadelic, the sort of the rock version of the P-Funk organization, have they ever played the Apollo? Oh, yes, indeed. Were they well received or were they a little bit too wild for that audience? Strangely enough, they were well received.

That's what I thought. And they were using, I believe the amplifiers were called, I forgot what they called. The amplifiers lit up. Oh, really? Okay. It was Eddie Hazel. Yes. Oh, man.

Okay. He was louder than I've heard anything on that stage at the Apollo. And strangely enough, the audience enjoyed it. I never understood that. And on that particular show, I was on the second balcony. at the top. Right. I think I was about 14 years old at the time.

And it was, for me, it was apropos for the time. Right. It was well received because it was unlike anything we'd ever heard before or seen before. We were all aware of the new music coming, Crosby Still's Nash and Young, Slough, I, you know, and his members, Larry Graham, and, you know, went from there to, I forget what it was called, Larry Graham's.

Graham Central Sitters. Yes. And, man, that whole transition was, man, it was quite enjoyable. And the Chambers Brothers, you know about them. So psychedelic Black Rock, that played well with the Apollo audience. Yes, indeed. It did. You know, for me, well, tell me, like, did you come from a musical family or, like, how did music enter your life as far as, like, this is your calling?

No musical family members at all. It started with the drum and bugle car. There was a military organization called the Junior Guard, and it was located at, at the 369th Armory on 142nd Street, right down the block from where the world famous Cotton Club was located. Okay, but at that time, cotton club had been torn down and they had some other, was it minister? Yeah, a menacing organization who had been known

for the, you know, a fierce German bugle core. I mean, they were about the best in Harlem at that time. And 3009th Armory was where this organization that was modeled after the Army, if you remember, Hitler had a youth organization. That Hitler Youth Army. And I didn't have a historic record about how this happened, but they had a junior called a junior guard. And I just noticed in America, a lot of the Gestapo habits were used by our FBI, the head of the FBI.

Jaeger Hoover. Jay over, yeah. So I noticed, you know, and they dressed it differently and brought it in a different way, but they used a lot of what they saw work in Germany, okay? with Hitler's business. And I figured that had something to do with this, how this organization came together. They saw what worked and they tried different things.

And the government paid for this organization. And so I joined it at an early age, around 12, and you know, went up and ranked to Master Sergeant. But what I loved about it was the organization, the things you learned. You couldn't learn these things anyplace else. Typical of our armed services.

And then at one point, they started a drum and bugle core, all right? And at this point, I'm approaching junior high school. And from there, and then going to junior high school, I immediately applied for the orchestra. And I played drums of first year, baritone bass class after the second year. Third year went back to drums.

And that's where my musical career started. Dagon of Blazers came out with Funky Broadway. The Flamingos did. It was something that they did at the Apollo that I had never seen done before, but the beat that the guy used was similar to that of Funky Broadway. Okay.

And they had a move that went with it. But it was, it just, it just totally took me someplace. I hadn't been previously. As soon as I got home, I started doing that. Okay. And then we started an all acoustic band in school. Drums, trombone, baritone, tennis sax. And there was another person who floated in and out.

But we played for the assembly, and it came off. And people wanted to hear us play. So occasionally we would play at the 160 auto barn ballroom. Got you, Malcolm X. Yeah. It was across the street from a hospital. I had attended with a thick file in Presbyterian Medical Center. Right.

And so I remember those times well, but from there it went to an electric band. And that band wound up being cameos some years later, quite a few, actually. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never. mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends...

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. How did you wind up in Philadelphia? Because when did you go to Edison? Oh, man, God. I went to Edison for one year.

I was, my grandmother lived in Philadelphia. Okay. The family was from Georgia, Thompson, Georgia, and then Augusta, Georgia, and then they spread out from there. My mother had seven sisters. She was the oldest and most of them moved to Philadelphia with grandma. Okay. So, and she was an avid churchgoer. So places like the Met there in Philly, which was just to be done, I understand.

And it's supposed to be phenomenal inside. I haven't seen it since. But that was a place. that we would go at least four nights a week. Church was mandatory. You didn't get to avoid it. And so that's how the whole Philly thing happened. And we were in an area between Norris and Diamond.

North Philly. Yeah, North Philly. N-O-R-F. That's how Jill Scott says. N-O-R-F, North Philly. Okay, you were from Westville? I'm from West Philly, yes. Yes, I have a lot of relatives there, too.

Okay. I didn't even know what West Philly was. I knew where the Greyhound bus station was. Did you like it too much as a kid, or was New York more, like, was New York too hip? Was Philly like a downgrade for you when you came or? No, I wouldn't call it downgrade. I'd say that there was a large gap between culture. And, you know, it was just very different, you know.

As I remember, there was a lot of violence going on in Philly. And the older you got, the more you understood what was going on, but never did really understand why. So how did you, because of the gang culture, especially back then. How did you avoid that? Or is it just the unspoken thing of like if gang leaders knew that you had some sort of talent or you could get out, they just left you alone? I really don't think it mattered to them. I don't know if they knew or not, but I know we lived in between to Norris Street and Diamond Street. And you would probably know more about

that then I know that's where we were. And they were talking about, I mean, I couldn't believe they were actually talking about drafting people into certain gangs. We were the guys that did not go for that. But we avoided that like the plague. I see. And that's how we avoided it, period. You know, they had, I'm sure they.

had their things to do whatever that was. But as I said, you know, my grandmother was an avid churchgoer, and that wasn't part of the agenda. I feel you. So here's the question I have. You know, for most of the funk legacy, most of them get their start in the Midwest. And probably one of the key components of starting in the Midwest is that families move out there There's industry.

You know, they get factory jobs, good paying factory jobs, and they live in these houses that either have rec rooms or dens or garages of which, you know, with that extracurricular money, you buy instruments. But how are bands able to form and living in a cosmopolitan city in which, you know, the average black family lives in an apartment? or, you know, Philadelphia is kind of known for its small house structure. So I know when I was, you know, coming up, I mean, my neighbors kind of liked me so they were willing to put up with the noise. It was like I was Calvin for McDonald's.

Like, I'll leave him here alone because he's going to be something one day. But, you know, the walls were really thin in Philly. I didn't live in a place where you had space, unless you lived in Queens or something like that. But, like, how, when you start a band, And how would you, where would you guys rehearse or be allowed to make noise to even see if you have it? Everything sort of developed from school, okay? And in that area, there was an apartment or complex called the Bridge Apartments. It was on the other side of the Washington Bridge.

and they had these rooms when you would enter the building to the right or left that were just rooms with space. And as you said, people like you, they see that you're trying to do something different. And somehow they let us use these rooms. And we would rehearse there. It was difficult. I grew up in the projects. and everyone knew who was playing drums

when it reverbed off the walls on that block. We didn't have a lot of different musicians, but the ones that, I mean, you knew of them because you could hear them. So, yeah, I'm sure I annoy quite a few people in a couple of buildings, but for some reason, one ever came to the apartment to say, could you bring it down a little bit? I'm sure a lot wanted to.

Right. They felt guilty about someone who was trying to play music. I would play with the stereo, of course, and James Brown was our pocketmaster. And you just had to have that swing. You know, I learned early on if a person could not dance to what you were playing, it didn't make sense. And then when you started recording,

that was a whole different experience. I would use the click track as a guide because not listening to the beat as much as it allowed me to relax inside the pocket that was happening. I was talking to DeAngelo once and he was telling me about you, you know, you playing with him. And, uh, and I said, man, I mean, he, he's, he's happening. Um, and he went into a whole thing about how what Prince was saying

about this, that or the other, you know, Prince was a great guy, man. I, I, I, uh, as a lufus, he might have been, um, you know, we, we had good conversations. There were never long. I feel he. Yeah, yeah, I forgot. You brought John Blackwell to him. Yeah, yeah. The great John Blackwell. Absolutely.

A couple of people before him. Camille was the farm team for Prince. Yes. Yes, yes, indeed. What goes that for you, Larry, was regarding your early days in drumming. You were playing on, you had a chance to work with Black Ivory. And I wanted to know what, if you remember what songs you'd played on. And if you remember anything about working with Leroy Burgess, he's another kind of

hero of ours. Yeah, I like Leroy. Leroy lived in the same project that I lived there. And Leroy was cool. I worked with Patrick Adams mainly. Patrick was the late Patrick Adams. He just passed. Yeah, just passed. And I played, you and I have an understanding, I believe. That's you and you and I? Really? Yes. Woo. That's the one. Yo!

Wait, how did you know that, Fonte? Because I didn't even know that. Yeah, it was, you know, I have informants. But, uh, but, nah, man, wow, he's on you or not. Okay, that's dope. That's stupid dope. Yes. Uh-huh.

It was, uh, Patrick was a phenomenal guy, man. He played like six or seven instruments. And we would start off on the keyboard and the drums as I was started. And I played, goodness, I must have recorded four different tracks, two of which, you know, don't turn around and that you and I. Whoa. That's crazy, man. I didn't know you played on you or not.

Oh, boom? Damn. Okay, that's a classic. Your first band, East Coast, with Gwen Guthrie. talk about how did that come together? Well, we played at the Cheetah a great deal. She was with a group called The Matchmakers, I believe. They were from East Orange.

And we would see each other a lot. So when I was about to form the first unit that turned in the cameo, I asked if she was interested in joining a band, playing all originals. And of course, that was a dream back then. And East Coast, we played in Long Island a great deal. And whenever we could get work, we played in Quebec, a place called Tuare Rivier,

which was about an hour from Montreal. We were up there for a while. That was the closest thing to a residency. that I can remember. But Gwen was a very talented, you know how talented she is. She was phenomenal, man. I loved working with Gwen. And her and our trombone player connected.

And they wrote, as a matter of fact, they met Benny Ashburn, the Commodore's manager. Yes, she was living in Lennox Terrace at the time. We had a resident. residency at Smalls Paradise. Smalls in Harlem? Yes. Yes.

I believe that Robert De Niro now owns that club and has kept it running. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He hooked it up and kind of refurbished it. Oh, okay. I know of a place in Philadelphia that he did the same thing, but I believe that was more of an after-hour place.

Hoodspot. Mittance, yeah. Yeah. Mittance, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, yeah. You know, we've, we've story about Robert and I are staying at that hotel in Hollywood, yeah, where Belushi was found.

Oh, man. Oh, damn, I used to stay there. Yeah. Yeah, cross-on-up. On sunset, yeah. And Rick and I was staying there. We were there for other reasons. But that's how I met Eddie, as a matter of fact.

Rick introduced me to him. And then I produced his second album, I believe. Oh, the one after, how could it be? The one after, would put your mouth on me. Yeah, the one with that song on it. Yeah. Okay. And now, Chateau Mont was the, was the hotel.

Marmont, that's right. Yeah. And, you know, Rick had to get the room that they found John Volusia. You know what? Everyone is obsessed with that bungalow number. Everyone's obsessed with it. That's where De Niro and I met. We would always meet in the garage.

Coming to Go, Ear Hunter at the time. Right. And I recognized him, but I wasn't. And wasn't that kind of thing. We were talking about typical things. Yeah, I know he honor a brother. Man, he's a... He's a real guy.

I already don't. I already don't. I already don't. So even before the crafting of the group, like who else was just around the scene in that period in the early 70s, mid-70s before cameo started. There was a person that's no longer with us.

He's a co-writer on that, you and I have an understanding by the moments, which was a big song. His name was Tyrone Johnson, saxophone player. He was absolutely genius. I learned so much from those cats. And here I am, you know, goodness gracious. about 19 at the time.

As a matter of fact, the group I was working with was being managed by Gene Red at the time, who was the producer for cooling the game. Right. So George and I have known each other a long time, and he's

always been the same guy. Punky George? Yes, man. Okay. He's a good brother. It's not a day that could go past or a birthday that he wouldn't send, you know, a happy birthday.

And they were playing at the Apollo. So as you can see, you know, being affiliated with those guys, those relationships last the longest. Real musicians, too, it mattered to us back then, you know, about everything we were doing. And Tarone taught Ronald how to circular breathe. And we just played with Kool and then how long ago was that son? Before the pandemic.

Yeah, before the pandemic. Okay, okay. Yeah. At the Mahegan Sun, I believe it was. Oh, Mohegan Sun. Yeah. And so before I got out of the dressing room, Ronald ran in and a couple of the guys. And we reminisced about those times.

It was very special. Let me say that. You're speaking of brother Brian, their saxophone player who passed away during the pandemic. One of my main regrets is not interviewing him, man. He had so much knowledge and just in his story and his word. Yeah, he was. So can you tell me the story that,

well, not only that leads up to you forming cameo, but how you caught the attention of Cecil Holmes and Neil Bogart on Casablanca Chocolate City. Okay. Well, at the time, it was New York City players, as we call ourselves, and we played East Coast, the chilling circuit, behind people like the Ohio players,

George Benton, and others. You know, Rochester, Buffalo, Toronto, Michigan, you know, anyway, there was a club in New York. I had passed this place millions of times, didn't know what it was. It was called Better Days. And the guy that handled our administration at the time, this was one of his hearts. And we wound up playing there on Mondays. We would play, you know, the upstate New York region and circle back to New York.

We would get back, I think Sunday, and we played Monday. there at that place. And there was a guy who was a songwriter that wanted me to produce this song, he wrote, called Find My Way. It was during the end of the disco era. So we recorded it and did one of our songs on the other side. Neil Bogart was crazy about the song.

We did a single deal with Casablanca, you know, that was after the song. the Booter thing with Neil. Neil didn't even know we were black. Yeah. It was a single deal and Neil promoted this song and did as much as he could for any song, but he was just crazy about it.

When I guess they found out we were black, then it became a part of Cecil Holmes' Chocolate City label. Anyway. So after, I mean, after he couldn't do anymore for that song. I mean, we put our hearts into it and did the work. But I asked Cecil to come listen to our original material.

And then we rented SIR over there 52nd Street. And Cecil came to hear. And we played rigorbitist, funk, funk, the songs we were working with at the time. So after rehearsal was over, the presentation pretty much was over. I asked him if he thought we could do something. And he said, I think so. Then an offer was made for an album deal. And so every album we recorded after that was gold.

Rigamortis was the first single. I happened to be working on Wall Street at this haberdastery. And I don't know if you guys remember, but Frankie on BLS had these slots called the World Premier, and I forget what the other ones were. But I noticed whenever a world premiere song debuted, it became a hit. Maybe it was because it was played 12 times a day. But anyway, I was fitting a customer and heard the world premiere.

Then our song came on. I have the Frankie Crocker World Premier drop. A world. You have a bit. I collect, you know, as a so-called historian. And I often beg and bug people for like old school radio drops from back in the day. So yeah. Yeah.

Well, when that came on, I knew that rigorbitus was going to be a hit. I had never heard, I mean, everybody else, Barry White. Oh, I can't remember all of the world premieres at all. But, man, I dare you to find one that did not become a hit, for whatever reason, Rig and Mortars did 40,000 copies in two weeks, and we were off. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with, some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports

and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Sliced podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects, from hidden

traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. At the time when you wrote Rigamortes was, you know, a monster groove. You know, the environment at the time in 1977, you know, P-Funk had finally planted its flag. Of course, Earth wouldn't fire.

you know, they were pretty much the monuments. How aware are you of what the environment was as far as funk bands were concerned and was it a thing where it's like, okay, what can we do to stand out from the rest or make our own mark? Because the one thing that I will say about you guys that maybe, maybe, and I don't count heat wave

because they're, even though they're from two brothers in Ohio, I've just never seen a band like literally do everything but the kitchen sink on stage as far as the presentation,

the dancing, the, it's beyond just performing your song. Like, what was it? What was in the drive that drove you guys to eat? And to dance that hard and not be out of breath,

Like, can you just walk us through the rehearsal aspects of what you guys were trying to go for when you're doing this? Of course, you know this. That's how bad we wanted it. We wanted to do what we felt would work. I think Earth, Winter Fire played a large, had a large influence on us at the time. And surely thereafter, Maurice, was like a mentor. He would play, or they would play at the Omni in Atlanta,

and he'd call and ask, and, you know, let me know where he was. And just recently Larry Dunn was telling me, man, I remember seeing you leave in Maurice's room at 3 a.m. in the morning. Maurice was very, very generous in sharing things that I could not have known. that time and the political goings on and enact that large. And regardless of you saw five, four, six people, you know, there were always 10 to 12 on stage. And that's why I cut down on the photos on how many people took photos because I found in marketing that it's easier for a fan to remember, you know, four or five people.

but if you turn the album, you'll see everyone that had something to do with, you know, what we were doing. It was a collaborative affair. It was a democratic dictatorship. Okay. With the experience that I had at the time, it was just coincidental that I couldn't think of anyone else that possesses. as much and everyone was open to I had an open-door policy you know if you had something to share something to give something to you know suggest I was open because I felt that you know for a group especially like cameo it took

everyone's sincere involvement and you know we didn't have room for games, we had to be radio-friendly, no matter what we did. They would tell us that, were they playing ballads now? You know, you guys need to come with a ballot. We come with it up-tempo because we thought that worked at New York radio. And it did, you know? The choices we made was great. I got one question, though.

Yes. Because this is typical what you'll see when bands from the same. 70s sort of transition to the 80s, you see that they will scale down. My, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my guess is for financial reasons, but how, how is, how are you able, like, why would you have 14 people inside your organization? Like, and what, what is, what is per die? Like, what is, per diem like was per diem a thing uh how would you guys get to gigs like are you driving yourselves was there a tour bus back in 77 78 uh did you have roadies back then you said you had one question it's like fucking 20 questions you might have seen 14 but trust me 14 was not um you know

the decisions were made by the gentleman you're speaking to right now um i i had a response And if it didn't work, if someone else had a better way of approaching it, I was open to that. It wasn't, you know, as long as it was working, it was working. But isn't it also like managing personalities and Jedi Mindtricks? Who's late to the bus? Who has an attitude? Who's talking to this girl? We didn't have that.

We were serious. We were deadly serious. It wasn't, you know, we didn't have that problem. I think everyone appreciated the fact that we had built something that was hard to keep together. And we tried to avoid that nonsense as much as we could. Yeah. And then when we talk about the 70s, our thing happened closer to the end of the 70s. We did have a bus.

We bought a used Graham bus at first. Then we bought a Boston Muhammad Ali sold to us or his representatives. And it worked for several years. I was in Jet Magazine. How about that? And in Life magazine, too, Center Page. We took a photo for publicity reasons. But, you know, I enjoyed working with, you know, talented cats.

And it was fun as well because I couldn't think of anything. else that I would want to do. I did attend Julian for almost two years. Oh, wow. Started happening and I just didn't see any reason whatsoever that I should stay at that school when hearing things like, you know, no one contributed anything to contemporary music worthwhile since the Beatles.

I said, okay, I got you. Well, let me Let me get ready for us to put our games together. You know what I mean? So when working on, like, the cardiac of rest record, which, you know, is the first album, you produced it. Were you nervous as a producer? Did you, or was it just like a learning curve? No, I produced before Cameo was a group.

Okay. I worked a great deal and produced. and I taught, self-taught engineer. Oh, okay. You know, I had relationships. I played with the group Top Shelf. As a matter of fact, that's how I met Patrick. Okay.

The group Top Shelf, I believe they had a regional head called Give It Up. I don't think you guys remember that or not. But I had, you know, I had, I knew people like... Brendan, the tablations, right on the tip of my tongue. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Cool people. And we're running to them in Hollywood and other places.

Okay. You know, I was truly, aside from a student of music, and, you know, I've had some moments, man, that were just unforgettable. And what you always wanted was to be a part of black, You wanted to be remembered as being a part of that. And I think we achieved that. And it takes a while before you realize what you have done. And that brings about, you know, that brings about, you know,

other challenges and other things to do. But you find that you understand your music in a different way. way. And it wasn't about going in a circle. Okay. It was about, you know, achieving goals. And, and you're serious about it. And when I discovered the Mitsubishi X-850, my whole world changed then cross-production is concerned. Okay. That was a hell of a machine. I can tell you that that thing made silence sound good. So you were a tech head? Well, somewhat, I won't say a total tech head,

but what I did know and understand, you know, and then I was happy to be a part of old school ending and then the new technology emerging. I really enjoyed that because there are things that I know how to do. with music. And believe it or not, it doesn't even matter anymore today. It doesn't seem to matter as much. But I always wanted music to sound good. And if you listen to... It matters. Really? It does matter. Okay.

Here's the thing. I know a lot of us have our thoughts on like, this person seems to just be phoning in from home or... The thing is, though, that there are artists out there that are doing it. I just think now that because the gate is wide, left, you know, wide open, it's almost like way too much. It's saturated. But I'm a person that likes to search for, you know, there are so diamonds in the roughs out there that kind of give me hope

that there's still a good future in music. It's just oftentimes. And it's like that in history. It's like sometimes the best of the crop don't necessarily get the mass exposure that someone

that who is not as talented gets, you know? Yes, yes. That's always been the history of music. You know, like a group like the meters uh, you know, unfortunately didn't get the push that they should have gotten.

You know what I'm saying? So Yeah. And that was a fucking act, man. Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of DeAngelo, I've never met a cat. Now, I mean, again, cameos all things to all people. And you guys have had your

different phases and your metamorphosis, but I, for some reason, he told me, like, when he was a kid, like, the cameo ballot meant more to him than even Earth went to fire. Like, people

with established hits or whatever. For him, like, Why have I lost you? Or even Sparkle. Matter of fact, he produced Sparkle for, I forget the name of that group. It's like four brothers from, it's like right after Brown Circuit came out,

DeAngelo produced a cover of Sparkle. Oh, wow. For, oh, a group called Twice. Oh, no. Oh, wow. It came out in like 95, and Angie Stone and DeAnne, like the first time I heard Sparkle, because the thing was, like, even on Brown Sugar,

like those patches that he had, like, you instantly knew it was him. But for him, like, your ballots meant everything. Yeah, I was going to ask you about two of us, because that's been sample, you know what I mean, by, I mean, Ari sampled it, two pop, you know, but, yeah, but I love that song, man. Yes, two of us was a nice song, wasn't it? I knew that you had to have, if you didn't have a banging ballot along with the uptempo banger,

then you didn't have a record. We wanted to be a part of our culture. In order to achieve that, we had to achieve those goals. You had to. And I had to have a first tenor, a soothing barretem. tone, okay? And then we, you know, I consider myself a song stylist. You know, unlike Luther Vandross, who we know when he was born, he came out singing. Those that are fortunate enough, others who had to play the top ten to work, being a drummer or being a band trying to have consistency,

it was important for you to learn those things. And as a result, we have our and we have other things that we learn that you make your style. Okay. But I appreciate every Ohio. I mean, I was with Sugarfoot not long before he left us. And I mean, what could that guy do that I wouldn't like? I don't know.

You listen to some of those records, man. Come on, you know, that shit is real. Yes. I mean, can I tell you, can I say anything else? The Great Leigh-Wry Bronner, Sugarfoot, yes, absolutely. You know something, now that you mention it, what I truly admire about your approach to music, in a way that I actually think,

and I don't know if this is blasphemous to say, because, you know, for a lot of people, they're the Mount Rushmore. but what I always loved about your version of songs is how you handled what I dubbed the Greek course in terms of like take a song like Attack Me with You Love or back and forth where you all sing so I forgot where I heard it I don't know if George told me but he's like if you do it as a Greek course where all the voices are singing in the same unison, then that's a more inclusive thing

for the audience to want to learn the lyrics and sing along with you. Like a shower singer or a bathroom singer. And I always wanted to know, was that by design? I call it a choral lead, okay? That type of vocal approach, okay? It feels good. I don't know if George's...

theory is correct. I wouldn't challenge it. I think there's more truth to that than not. But when I approach producing and production, I try to make it what someone would like. I try to put myself in an audience's position and listening to this. And a choral lead is an effective technique. because then you can have individuals accent that approach. And you have a chance to do things with that material that you wouldn't any other way. I try to imagine it as a lead, and it doesn't have the same oomph, okay?

And I would take that and play with that with songs. there would be no guarantee that the way you hear a song originally would turn out to be as you might have imagined it to be. And I think having that control, which is why we have the variety we have in Cameo, it couldn't be a one-dimensional issue. It could not be. There's too much to do, too much you can do. So when we talk about songs and, okay, what's your approach to this song? How do you think this should be, you know, what about this chorus? How do you want that to happen? Okay.

And who's going to make the transition? Who's going to set up the bridge? Okay. What are we going to do there? Man, to me, I love my work. I can do that in a couple of lifetimes. you know? Right.

There's a lot to do. If you truly enjoy music, and I enjoy all types of music, and you can relate to this. I'm going to mention what was the name of that song. Grover Washington, that album. Come on. Mr. Magic?

Mr. Magic. Mr. Matt, yeah. Come on. George Benson. Yes. But, man, I used to walk around with that, playing that Mr. Magic and George Benson's material in New York. I used to live when I moved from my parents' home.

I lived across the street from, I guess, a city center on 50th Street between 6 and 7. And man, you'd be surprised who you'd run into just walking down the street. Fred Astaire. I mean, Gene Kelly, when New York, New York debuted at that theater right around the corner for me. Scorsese's New York, New York. Yeah. And where the studio was Quadriasonic and became known for a lot of things you wouldn't want.

We know. I know about Quad Studios. Trust me. But, and... Two box central. Yeah, straight up. I almost signed my man, Teddy Riley. Yeah, we met there.

What? At Quadersonic, yeah. But Teddy said, Larry, if I sign with you, man, Gene, try to kill me. Wow. Jean Griffin. Wow. That's a true story. Ask him.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. fourth, you might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends,

Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed.

I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

All right, yo, I got to know what was it, for me, like as a fan of your entire canon, for me, starting with Secret Omen, something different happened. And, you know, a song like I just want to be. And I know, like, every cameo fan has their cameo song they stick to where they say, okay, like, Rigamortes is the funkiest, or she strange is the punkiest or whatever. But for me, I just want to be was so damn futuristic. Because the thing is, I know that record came out in 79, but in my mind, it sounded, like for me, that was Prince's blueprint.

And this is way before we're talking about New Wave or the Minneapolis Sound. or whatever, but just like the stacking of handclaps, the absolute gut bucket funk of it all. How did that song even the fact that you guys, you know, have miniature courses inside

of, even the structure of that song is so weird. Like, it, um, I just want to be, it was our first gold single. And, and I probably brought them all. It was, it was real strange.

And it was different and that it was meant to be. It was meant to go against the grain of what everyone thought a hit record was. And it was about the melodic structure being accented based on a melody that was in that, you know, bass range, okay, based lower baritone range. And you made the music exactly as the melody was going. And the other things we did with that developed on its own while being created and while being recorded, I'd say. Having had the good fortune to work with engineers that were frustrated about how they were recording the same old shit, you know what I mean? And we just had to do it differently. Engineers like Dave O, I don't know if you're familiar with him.

Not familiar. York, man. And I had no idea. Dave played bass. Man, he was, we were two control freaks that learned how to work. You learn how to work with each other, you know, and we did. And it turned out to be dynamite.

I mean, some single life word up and the mixes thereof. It was just phenomenal, man. Every other lope to be pushed, it was. And I'm certainly a guy that was not a guy that was not afraid to take that fate away, where it was going to go. I said, you know, I don't judge music by what that needle is telling me and what that graph is telling me. When I go n-l-lan-lan-n-n-l-n-l-l-l-l.

Then I know I've raised it too high. You know, that's just feedback there that I understand. But, you know, I used to get into arguments with engineers about, you know, you're at plus five I could I don't plus five doesn't matter to me

I just want that thing I want to I know it can't sign I want to see where I have to back off you know there's no way to know unless you go there

I gotta ask you and for a lot of fans of hip hop you'll be interested to know I got to to ask you about brother Aaron Mills

Aaron Mills to hip-hop fans I guess starting with Stankodia album basically like Aaron Mills's bass became the sound of like

a lot of Outcast as funkiest songs starting with like his bass work on Miss Jackson and beyond like he's all over speakerbox and whatnot but he's the bass of I just want to be.

Finding Aaron was, you know, we were booked on a date. NCCU was booked on that date. North Carolina Century is at NCCU? Yes. He's from North Carolina. Yeah, I went to Central. That's my alma model. Right.

And Professor Bird was working with some of the cats. Actually, both groups. The Blackbirds? Yes, Blackbirds and NCCU. So, you know, we needed a bass player who could do vocals as well and could move. So when I saw Aaron, I knew that that was the, I knew we had to try him out. And so we contacted them and offered them to come up to New York to try out. We used to use the Daily Planet there on 30-whatever street that was on.

Right. And we had some people that just didn't want it, man. They wanted to be in an act where it was totally different, and we could make it happen. And our approach vocally, our approach about anything was about being tired of the same old stuff. You know what I mean? And we wanted to do something different. That's what we did.

And we've used some musicians from London. It didn't matter where they were from, man. If they had that thing, and especially when it came to recording, and ideas that were different. It was exciting. It was beyond that. And also, too, wanted to mention Bernard Wright, who, you know, also recently passed. Like, what was it like working with him?

Man, we were talking about that not hours ago. I still, that was hard for me to, and to, you know, and I didn't know what caused as, as demise at, and someone told me he was hit by a car. Oh, wow. But Bernard is one of those geniuses. in his later teenage years, everybody he listened to was dead.

I mean, and that fucking for Jamaica. Come on. We know what that is. Yes. I mean... Masterpiece. I was just contacted recently about some tribute

that they're doing to Bernard and I'm trying to think about that thing. Bernard was, you know, there are guys you've had relationships with, they remind you of people like Jimmy Hendricks and others. They just have there on that different, on that different trajectory that, like you can't think of two other people. Thanks with the same flavor, Bernard is one of those guys.

And I've worked with, I don't know how many people are players. his spirit was something very different. Had you ever worked with him, Chris? I met Nard a few times at like, you know, occasional jam sessions or whatnot, but I never got to work with him. Oh, okay. And really, really didn't get to nerd out on him like I wanted to, you know. And I'm such a fan of like just that era of Marcus Miller and, you know, the Jamaica Boys and all that stuff.

And I'm such a fan of that era. but we're probably going to have Marcus Miller on soon, so I'll get to learn more about him. But no, definitely. You know, especially you can tell, to me, you could tell, like, the true artistry of someone, I'm a hits guy. I mean, I don't, I think I'm more of a filler guy than I'm a hits guy.

Like, I feel like the true definition of our artist is based on the album cuts and how they treat that. And for him, especially, like, he's, He's just, his ideas were like way, way, way beyond, way beyond his time period. I want to skip, I want to skip ahead to the Alligator Woman album. You know, Allergator Woman is probably one of the most curious songs of your catalog. And at the time, like, I think blacks were trying to figure out, like, what they're position was in just a non-dance music structure.

For that album, like, could you just discuss what the creative angle was, especially with that very unusual song in your catalog? Freedom. That was the precipitated factor. After a while, you start to hear, well, you've heard it all your life, but you didn't really pay attention to it. until it pertained to you or involved you. And we were at a place where, you know, yeah, we recorded a lot of things and they were very good to us.

But Alligator Woman, you just wanted the freedom to be able to do. And surprisingly enough, it surprised the heck out of me. It did quite well. It didn't, I mean, I was really surprised about that. I think at the time, maybe number four, or five or maybe even higher on the R&B charts at the time. But songs like Secrets of Time and Flirt. Especially Flirt, yes.

Yeah, I mean, that was some funky stuff. Indeed. We didn't try to be different as much as we challenged ourselves, more or less, you know? I would also like to know, I know that in 82, maybe it was 81, you made the transition from singing vocals behind the drum set and getting in front of the microphone. For you, how foreign was that to you? Or, you know, were you a reluctant leader? It was very foreign.

And how did you find a drummer that you trust it live? And we're still looking for that drummer. We've had, we've had them at times. It was a real strange thing. You know, we didn't, with the changes that went on, we didn't have that person up front that had the relationship with the audience that we wanted for it to have.

And as much as I didn't want to, it was discussed a couple of times. And then hear things like, you know, you got to, you got to come out front because you're singing these songs also that we're performing and you're doing this Saturday, and, man, we had drummers. God knows, we have tried. We had everybody with you, guy. You never know, man.

I would put that on my bucket list. I tell you, man. You're one of the only drummers. as I know that has a steady pocket that's for real. There are a couple of other people we've heard, but it's not as easy as you might think it should be. I don't know. I haven't figured that one out yet.

I can't even put it into words. But I know it's hard working. I am very close. Right. Sitting back down on those drums. tell you that much. Man. I was curious to know about your work

with Miles Davis. What was it like working with him kind of on that album? And specifically, why was he just randomly in these videos without any context whatsoever? I met Miles when I was

eight years old at first. Miles used to train with boxers to stay in shape. And my dad was in the boxing game. And so it turns out Miles had an attorney that when he passed the bar, he represented me or us in a situation with a manager we had. And some years later, lo and behold, Peter's representing Miles, Yoko Ono, several different people.

So in knowing that, I had a song that I had somebody played the, you know, the demo of that I wanted my us to hear. And he called back that afternoon about two hours later. And he said, I like this, do this. And he was writing as an autobiography at the time with the gentleman. With Quincy Troop. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

And, man, we had a good time with Miles. You know, everything he had to say meant something. And, man, do I miss that guy? Miles, I enjoy Miles a lot. Very useful energy, which I guess amounts for the musicians he had playing with him. his nephew played for us for a while too but being in the videos we just invited him down and

you know Miles was always colorful he was a heck of a guy and he seemed to enjoy the female company of the ladies yeah just without any context you would look and then it would be like Miles Davis for like two seconds and without the internet and without like a VC to rewind. It was like, wait, that,

no, that wasn't Miles Davis. What would he be doing that? Like, when they first came out, I never knew that was I was like, that's a guy that looks like Miles Davis or, you know, maybe Charlie Singleton had a cousin or something that was sold or something like that. Like, that's what I was thinking. Oh,

I know what I want to know. At any point, did any of you guys sort of make the correlation that the young lady that's saying nasty girl was actually on the front cover of alligator woman. Oh, yeah. Of course we knew that.

Yeah. So you knew instantly that that was Vanity on the cover of, oh, wow, okay. Indeed. Because I know she was on before Vanity Six got established, but. Right. But she was just perfect for what I say we, the photographer, and Peanut Gals. Yeah, say no more. I got you. But it worked. And I think Prince must have called her about four or five times while we were working, shooting that day.

That's right. They weren't dating by then. Okay. I see. This was on the phone until it became, and someone said something about, I think it was a photographer at the time. And I forget his name. But he was, he was, he was, he was colorful too. And I thought the idea it was great. And it worked. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now, I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Sliced podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make, to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Keep talking about establishing your own label because I think, yeah, slightly before she's strange. Maybe it was an alligator woman or style. You started Atlanta artist's label. It was a logo label more than a separate label within itself. if it didn't have its own distribution structure, that was stuff I didn't want to get into it at the particular time,

and it did make a difference to me at that moment. But we did well for it. It gave us positive identity in Atlanta. And we were fortunate enough to have some people working with us that helped a great deal. And we were able to, you know, get some different things done. It was all real quite positive. Okay.

We don't want to start talking about regular labels and the games thereof. That's a whole other. Maybe if you start another series. I feel like, hey, man, let's talk about it. Kitchen times. I feel you. This is also the period. where, and this is sort of across the board where, you know, the word crossover kind of

becomes part of the black music vernacular as far as, well, I know that it was a four-letter word, but, you know, not only that, but just transitioning. You're seeing a lot of lead singers leave their groups in 82. You're seeing a lot of groups that were once 14, 13, 12 members whittled down to trios and whatnot. How hard was it for you to come to the decision that, yo, man, we just got to, we got to pare it down a little bit. I don't think anybody in our act saw it that way.

Yet, I have to be totally honest. I never asked. I know that Jean-Paul Gautier had a summer line that had just been delivered to Bloomingdale's, and our wardrobe guy made us aware of it. And he checked the sizes and found that it would work for that concept. And as I said earlier, for identity purposes, I think it was easier for our fans to focus on few people instead of a lot of people.

And I think that worked for us. I turn around and every other band is doing the same thing. So what made you keep Tommy and Nathan and Charlie like kind of asked the core members? I don't think Charlie was there on that particular on the word up cover. Well, not word up, but he was at least for it. Yeah, when we paired it down, starting with. Strange. Allegator woman and style and those things.

Yeah. We tried to keep it a little closer to where we, you know, we just wanted the identity to work. And at that time, you think you're making a good decision about what works for the act. And it did at the time. Yeah, it worked. This is a strange business. You know, when something is working, it's working. And I think people appreciate that until it gets into selfish reasons.

I get you. You know, and that just happens. There's something that happens. You know, as all things, you know, there were challenges before that we had to get over when it was East Coast and other configurations. So I, you know, what happened happened. You just had to work with it. And, you know, it's easy as it was for me to be so busy knowing what you have to do next that I didn't worry so much about what was going on at the time. Just being prepared for something else was, you know, maybe that was an escape mechanism for me.

I don't know. I only say that because I think about that now, but at the time, I wasn't concerned about that. Okay. We just wanted to be good at what we did, offer something fresh. The high definition, advent of high definition was the greatest thing that could have ever happened,

not only with us, but everyone else, because it was said that, technique would be in everyone's home, and it was, which was, which was fun. But when we did the candy video, that was phenomenal, man. That piece of work there. That's historic. Can I ask you about that video? Go ahead. Okay. So for our listeners out there, I've mentioned it a few times, but like,

You know, for fans of black music, you really didn't have much to go on when finding out the information of your favorite acts. Like, you either stuck in the sort of tweendom of Rydor magazine or the polar opposite of it, which was like either Epine or Jet. So for a lot of, like, music heads like myself, there was a sort of a radio show called Lee Bailey's Radioscope. Radio scope. Yes, indeed. You already know where I'm going with this. I got it. So here's the thing.

Everyone's laughing at this and I know you know where I'm going with this. Now, mind you, I was 15 at the time. Now, Radioscope on weekdays was only like a three-minute kind of like a quicky news update on serious, you know, at least a serious journalism, if you want to call it that, of your favorite groups. but I'd never heard a more controversial hot take. Like, Radio Scope was almost like Black Twitter before Black Twitter. 30 years. And, you know, for me,

as a 14, 15 year old, watching, you know, LeVar Burton and, like, the Word Up video and the Candy video and all that stuff. And even, like, attack me what you love with Debbie and what's his name from, I think they were in general hospital, whatever. Were you, how upset were you when fans were complaining about, you know, sort of accusing you guys of not focusing, like,

you would have a wide array of women in your videos. It was black women, it was white women, it was brown women, Asian women. Like, were you aware of how, like, disgust, discussed your videos were at the time. Like there was just a thing where it was like only black women are allowed to be in cameo videos. And why there's all these, why are all these white women and Asian women? Like, yes, we, now it's like nothing. But it was so pioneering back then and controversial.

Were you even aware of Lee Bailey's radioscope and how like fans were sort of just like hop behind the collar over this? more than I more than I wanted to be but that's why you laugh when I said Lee Bailey we didn't get any complaints

from the fans we got I was a complaint no listen there might have been others that had things to say

but Lee Bailey I liked Lee Bailey he was a good good buddy he found something that gave him clicks yeah the attention

he knew And he went on with that. And it was okay up to a point. But as I explained it, you know, I was above board, fully transparent about the process. These were the same six women. You know, the process of high definition at the time was like layering each time. So whereas you thought that was, you know, different people, it was the same people dressed differently.

Right. It made it seem as if we had more... It looked like there was 42 billion women. It's almost like pre-CGI days of you guys in Times Square. Exactly. And that's the process. But, you know, there were three. And when I say three, I'm saying three as it appeared to be.

I would say Caucasian for like of a better description, but they were not all like all Anglo-Saxon Caucasian, you know? No, it was a vast array of women, but that was definitely the first time that we just saw, at least in

black videos, variety. Breaking out of the mold. I mean, you guys broke, speaking of breaking out the mold, oh God, I'm about to forget, can you please give me the genesis of what we affectionately refer to as the

cameo haircut. The cameo haircut and the red the red con. And the John Paul was a goatee? Was that John Paul Gautier? Did that design that? Do you still have that cup?

Yes. Yes. How do you wash that cup? But imagine what it was for me the day of the shooting word up. And a wardrobe guy had this box he just put up on the counter. I was in line with everyone else to get

whatever I was supposed to wear. And I took it in the dressstreet. I said, man, look who a choice wants me to wear, man. And they were like, oh, man, that's great, black room. Ball's out. Let's go for it. It wasn't the day for me to say, I'm not wearing that thing. You know what I mean?

It wasn't the day we were shooting. It was the first day of shooting. We had work to do. But there was a time when all of our outfits had cups on them. All the card pieces is what we call them. And Bernard Johnson, God bless him. You know, he was the wardrobe guy in New York.

I mean, at the time, you know, you always dreamed and said, man, when we make it, we're definitely going to go to Bernard. And that's what happened. Occasionally, I'll wear it if I feel like it. If I don't, I won't. And it's okay. You know, the haircut, I had a friend girl. named Tracy Johns.

She did. She's got to have it with Spike Lee, the very first hit. Oh, oh, yeah, Tracy Camilla Johns. Yes. That's right. That was a very close friend of mine. And she told me about these barbers that immigrated here from Italy on south of Houston. And I told her to take me out.

And she did. And, you know, I created this thing that Genesis, I guess, would have been Grace Jones and a couple of other things I saw. I made it work. And next thing I know, people from Africa is calling and telling me that they have the haircut and others. And I've heard people actually lie about it. You know, some people that you've always considered close. but I figured if it was that important to say that, be far for me to dispute that.

I wouldn't want attention that way. You know what I mean, guys. This is weird because I'm actually the guy who invented that haircut. So say what you want, but I'm claiming it. That's funny. How long was it before, like, You got to rock it with confidence, but, I mean, that was definitely a statement haircut. That was an instant street hit, but, I mean, at the time, did you feel like, wait a minute, what's, you know, this is the anti-Afro?

Did you, did you have any idea that you were actually establishing, like, the black Barbara goods shop? You know what it was, Kew? It was, I had, I was tired of dreads, and I thought it would have been less labor intensive. And actually, it was more. Yeah, it's more, yes. You know, you're twisting and twisting every time, you're twisting without even realizing that's what you're doing. And so I wanted to create a haircut that was less labor-intensive.

And I haven't found it yet. Regardless of what style it is, it's going to require attention. And that's just the way it is. You're not going to escape the black hair curse. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford. and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same proliferation. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

What I want to ask you is, for a lot of your contemporaries, embracing hip hop was a hard transition to do. And it would have been very easy for you to judge it or look down or be condescending. But from the gate, not only did you embrace hip hop, but you did in a way that didn't seem corny. or condescending or like trying to jump on a bandwagon like you know

you rhyming on she's strange is and he rhyming on word up I mean yeah I mean word up is is a new jack swing song so can you just talk about like your feelings of hip hop and how you know you embraced it without like

because it's very unusual for people to just be open to something and not run away from it like a lot of your contemporaries were. Well, you know, I don't know what it was for them, but I don't think we consciously made it an issue when it came to music. What I enjoyed about the movement called hip-hop was the simplicity of the drumbeat and the simplicity of what was going on with the base for the most part. And I felt that was a signature that could not be denied or could not get old

because that beat was what made it what it was. And whatever happened within that structure was always interesting. You know, funk is what it is. You can have a funky ballad as much as you can have a funky uptempo thing, but there's no mistake. You're going to bob your head. If this is happening, you're going to be in it. And once you're in it, you're in it. You know what it is from that point forward. So it didn't make you feel weird when like a guy like Lou Sallis says, you know, Bobby Brown's leaving Newark's. edition, you know, key producer's record. Because, like, you know, the songs you were doing on that record,

although not, it's definitely pretty new Jack Swing. Like, one of them joins, he does a beatbox breakdown and a rap break, which, again, was very unusual for 1986. Right. It was ahead of its time. So, right. Like, even working with Bobby Brown, what was that experience like? It was cool.

You know, Bobby and I were, we talked about that not long ago, you know, Bobby was going to do a lot of changes. And that's how when I introduced Teddy to MCA over there, where Gerald Busby was. Oh, okay. You know, and Gerald Busby and

Louis Silas, I believe. Louis-Siles, Jr., yeah. Uh-huh. And and I felt that Teddy had some things that would work well for Bobby. And the rest is history. So you made that connection. Wow.

And then that studio, I put that studio on the map. When I first walked up there, they had one room on the eighth floor and a Harrison 16-trackboard. The one in Atlanta. No, the one in New York. Oh, Quadra-Sonic, yeah. Lou Gonzalez, who owned the place. They heard that Larry was going to leave this place alone if you didn't get an SSL board in that room. And the next thing I know two weeks later, there's an SSL board in there.

And Lou wanted to keep us there. It was crazy. Yeah, Bobby Brown Project, Ryan Carey, all that stuff. Yeah, it was a home. And the next thing I know, there's another, they added another four floors of other studios. and that's when Biggie was up there and, you know, the thing that happened at that time. You don't have to go through everything, but...

No, we've talked about this story a lot. Yes, we know. We know. That was the most famous corner. I know. Even when I go there now, because there's a drum dealer on, like, the fifth floor where I get a lot of my vintage drums from.

Oh, really? Yeah, there's a cat up there that has, like, a drum shop up there. still go there occasionally. There is one question I do want to know you know, to have such a crowded space, or at least in the time that you were there, I mean, now you know, my band is kind of

like one of the last black bands with a major record deal still. But just in general, what bands did you respect? Like, when they were on

stage, you're like, oh man, they're kicking ass or like, earthwind and fire. Okay. Confunction I love, even today. Or who didn't you like? I'm going to ask no full force questions either, but go ahead.

I'll tell you, Mike, but my pet peeve, you know, some of these guys, you know, they would run out and under shaky circumstances, go someplace and get the, I owned the name of the group they've been working with for a long time, and all of a sudden they own this name. And because they own this name now,

I tell them that in the dime, I won't buy you a cup of coffee. But how about the relationship you had and what you all did together to make hit music? That should be the focus, okay? Not this, well, I own the name now, Larry. So what? Okay. that doesn't seem to be doing a lot for you. And what made it work was the apparatus, chemistry, the setup that you had before.

You should be running to preserve that and working along that context, because that's what worked for you. Oh, yeah, I want to ask about, before we go, Arsenio Hall doing chunky egg. Yeah, that was fun. That was fun. That was the first video I shot that had, you know, did use sound, actually real sound and dialogue. And I, you know, I was in Japan and he called and asked if I would do his chunky A. And it was strange. The guy that shot Michael Jackson's thriller.

John Land. John Landis? Was it John Landis? Well, he directed it. Yes. But he had an AD too. Anyway, a lot of the crew came from that body of work. Okay.

They were not necessarily the most cooperative guys in the world. You know, there were things being done that, you know, like somebody would have a real thick cord coming across a walkway. and you trip over it, and then you look back and it's not there anymore, then that's for you to know that that was done for you. So I avoided other stuff like that, but it was a great shoot, and I enjoyed every moment of it. The whole Chucky A thing was Osceinio's thing. I loved Alciniou because he was just a funny guy, man.

And he was a sincere guy, you know? He used to invite us on the set. He'd have a nice drum set in his office. And he had this guy Chuckie in his band, wasn't it? Yeah. Chuck, give me that cup. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Chuck played with us also. Man, I don't know how many drums we've been through. Jesus Christ. I want to know what the firing process was like. That wasn't too hard, you know. Well, you don't mince words, I guess. No. I mean, you know, you're trying to get something done.

And it's fairly simple. It's, the frustrating part for me is when a guy can't hear that he's losing the pocket or he can't hear it himself. That is frustrating for me. But I have done everything I think I've done everything I could do to help. But if they don't have it, they don't have it. Some guys just don't have it. And rocks rolling down the hill won't make people dance at all. all.

And as you said, the simplicity of some of the hip-hop fills, if that's all you're doing, then that works. That wouldn't make people want to dance because they're familiar with that already. And it's in time. If it's not in time, is it music? I don't know. It might not be. I don't know.

You might have to James Brown and find him. Yeah. And I don't know how James did that, but they sure had it going on. God knows. Absolutely. I think I have an answer for finding the perfect drummer. And this is what Peter Gabriel used to do. He used to have a drummer, or for his studio drummers at least, he would have a drummer come in, sit behind the drum kit, and just tell him to play a song for like five minutes. And then one by one, he would take a piece away. And to the

point where he even took the hi-hats away, like Peter Gabriel hated it. the sound of high hats. And it forced, when you're stuck with just the bare minimums, then you're forced to just concentrate on the pocket because you have nothing else to deal with. Which I know, you know, the nights that I saw you guys and I saw you guys doing the John Blackwell era, I almost feel like, because cats always ask like,

yo man, how can I get cats to stay in the pocket? My first answer is you got to take all their drums away. Just snare, high hat, kick. start there, the basic minimum. And that's, I feel like that's the answer. Cats gotta get back to them. You gotta.

It forces them to stay in the pocket. You got to take the toys away. If they do good, reward them with a high hat. You know what I'm saying? With a high hat, yeah, how about that? But, man, well, how did you develop your pocket? When did that happen?

When did you notice that you had a pocket? Had to have that pocket to play. The thing is that, you know, growing up right, you know, hip hop and I were of sort of the synergy together where not only am I studying drum breaks that hip hopters is sampling, but like I grew up with those records. and my father's record collection. You know, he had like 3,000, 4,000 records in his collection. So I would notice that when Katz wanted to freestyle at my high school,

if I would recreate those same breaks that they heard in rap songs, that's when they would start to dance. And, you know, and to me, it wasn't about drum fields. It's finding the perfect four bars. Right. And people don't trust the process. of less is more. Yes.

And, you know, I felt like my thing was the less you do, the better it is. Yeah. And, you know, but it also comes with time. And that's the thing. Like a lot of times, especially with black bands when I was asking you earlier about, where did you practice? Oftentimes, like, church is the only environment that they get to play. And sometimes you got to do everything.

but the kitchen sink to keep your position because there's 14 drummers in church waiting to replace you. Yeah. And more than that, I just, I grew up with a bandleader father that would look back at you and find you $50 if you messed up. So, nah, I kept the pocket. Brother Blackman, thank you so much. No, thank you, man.

I appreciate this. Yeah, on behalf of Laia, please get well. And, Sugar, Steve. That was a great interview. Thank you, Mr. Blackman, for your time and all that information. That was amazing. And thank you for mentioning all the engineers also that you worked with over time. For real.

Thank you very much. On behalf of Fonticelo and Laia and Unpaid Bill, and Sir Kasteeve and myself, Quest Love, and the Great Immortal Larry Blackman and all the members of Cameo and their 42,000 drummers. This is Quest Love Supreme. All right. We'll see you on the next round. Thank you.

All right. Bye. Bye. Much Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's evening. Suesh Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the SportsSliced podcast to break down what really matters

when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcasts.

network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.