The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Larry Gold

Episode Date: August 12, 2020

This is a very special episode of Questlove Supreme. The episode takes us to Philadelphia where we recorded in Milkboy Studios formerly known famously as "The Studio" which was owned by one of the true musical treasures of Philadelphia, Larry Gold. Larry is an anomaly in the sense that his talent is not only essential to an iconic music movement (Gamble and Huff catalog) almost 50 years ago. His career peaked again 30 years later as he added his strings and string arrangements to some of the biggest songs and albums of the early 2000's. We are talking "The Boy is Mine" "Cry Me A River" , and from Graduation and 808's & Heartbreaks to MJ's "Scream" and a WHOLE lot in between. Let us not forget his work with the Root's and owning a studio where they would call home for over a decade. Needless to say there is a lot to talk about and learn from our friend Larry Gold. Enjoy Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. Suprema, Subrema, Submina, Role Call. Suprema, Subima,

Role Call. Suprema, Subima, Subrama, Role Call. Suprema, Su, Surma, Submina, Subrema, Suprema roll call

I may have moved Yeah You could say I roamed Yeah But I'm back in the studio Yeah Ain't no place like home Roll call

Suprema Suprara Suprara roll call Suprema Suprema Roca My name is Fonte Yeah

My favorite movie is Belli Yeah I just learned that the plural Of cello is cello Roca Corpola What? Supraima

What? Suprema, Supraima Roca. My name is Sugar. Yeah. I keep it mellow. Yeah. When Larry Gold. Yeah.

Playing the cello. Roca. Supremma. Supremia. Supremma. Roll call. Supriva. Supriva.

My name's Boss Bill. Yeah. Just here to say hello. Yeah. And I'm feeling great. Yeah. Melo as a cello. Roa.

Supriva. Yes, I can't do my cello. Suprema Roca. No, I'm doing it. No, we do the other one. Let's give you. Suprema, roll call. It's Laia.

Yeah. And my boo, Larry Gold. Yeah. My favorite tough Jew. Yeah. That never gets old. Rocault call. Supremma.

You can't rock. So, Supremma role call. Supremma, sub, Suprima, Roca. They say I play the cello. Yeah. I'm very nice fellow. Yeah.

I'm a last name gold. And I'm very ball. And I'm very ball. Supreme Supreme a Raulca Supremia Subrama Roca

Supremma Subrama Roca Supremea Roca See was that really It was a bit intimidating Especially with all the cello shit everybody used cello

You know It flashed through my head You know Cello I mean, I don't know. You rhyme with Larry Gold as you did the word mold. Bold? Bold.

Oh, old. Yeah, see, there you go. Old. I was going to leave that go, even though she could have gone that way. Right. My favorite part of taping this podcast is when guests of the show start expressing fear, when I tell them two minutes ahead of time that they're about to start. We never, of course, you know, we never tell the guest that they're doing the freestyle.

You know. Myia was looking at her phone. Oh, we know. Oh, yeah. You know. You don't know. See, this lets us know, like, you know, your enthusiasm for doing the show. Like, you know, you're there.

We'll give you an eight. It definitely is intimidating. You got an eight. You got an eight. You got an eight. You got an eight. You got an eight. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme.

I'm your host, Questlove, and we're here with Team Supreme. Fine, take a little. and Sugar Steve And Boss Bill Hello And Laia How you doing? We're man down now

To see what is happy about this Unpaid Bill And he didn't make it I think that we might have Have affected two of our guests With the Quest Love Supreme Diet here Yeah

So we fed We fed Unpaid Bill He had impossible cheese steaks He had some drink he had some David's chicken from Chinatown and this is all in the same night and have more drink

and now he's out of commission so I think the Fanta had a rough morning too I heard yeah it was pretty yeah I had we went to the you too bad we went to Barclay Prime we went to Barclay Prime and I had a ribby and the

truffle mac and cheese and the mac and cheese it came back to say what's up really? Yeah it was I just yeah Oh, I'm sorry. I mean, really, really rich, rich dairy shit. Right.

It was good. But, yeah, this morning and not, it reminded me. But do y'all hear that? That's the doptness, the Philly, because that's all Philly food. That's like Bill got fucked up. He couldn't take it. Fonte got fucked up. He couldn't take it.

But you're from North Carolina, that's why it was good as hell. Yeah, yeah, it was good. That's why I went to McDonald's. Damn. And Philly. Well, actually, that speaks more about me. Like, I'm killing off our host. Hey, man.

Welcome. I go sometime, you know. We're all your choices. Oh, Lord. Ladies and gentlemen, so let's say that, you remember that moment where you were in your feelings when you first heard those strings on Love My Life on things for a part? Yeah.

That rush you felt like, whoa, the roots are growing up here. I might be cutting onions. I don't know. Our next guest today, I'll say, has both his feet planted in the history. the history of Philadelphia and also the future of Philadelphia is an integral part of the foundation of what we know as the Sound of Philadelphia, of course, if you're familiar with any of the works from the Sound of Philadelphia,

be it Gamble and Huff creations or even things produced by Tom Moulton or... Tom Bell. Yeah, Tom Bell or any of the Sound of Philadelphia luminaries, Dexeluanza, whoever. Baker Harris Young. Yes. McFadden? Mike Fadden and Whitehead. Just they, the secret sauce, the special sauce of the sound of Philadelphia,

I will say, are the less strings. It gives a touch of class a step further than what I think Barry Gordy thought he was doing with the Motown sound, trying to make it palatable to America. And our guest today was a part of that. But not only that, we can also say that he had his hand in the, the second resurgence of the Sound of Philadelphia as owner of the much fabled, the studio here in, and part of town are we, is this Northern Liberties?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll call Northern Liberties. Or North Chinatown. Okay. Which I prefer, but. North Chinatown, Northern Liberties. And at this very studio, I will say that pretty much any and everybody, this is where I first met the great Bruce Svdien.

Oh wow. Yeah, that's right. When he was doing Jennifer Lopez's Yeah, but this has been home to the roots for at least 10 albums. It's a list. Not to mention, you've done string arrangements for everyone. Justin Timberlake.

Justin Timberlake. I've done good. You've done good. Ladies and gentlemen, he's done good for himself. Larry Gold. See? How you doing, man? Thank you.

I'm fine. I was trying to figure out. when did we first cross paths? I remember. My version of the story was, well, I know that Fatine Danzler, Daddy Kendrick, yeah. Told me about the studio. But at that time, you know, I was married to the sound setup that I had at Sigma. Right.

Both of our old homes. Well. And then an incident happened. that's what I remember an incident happened and James Poizer called me. Yeah so an incident happened without putting out

the business of one of the former members of the roots No I mean I don't want I mean we've made no bones about our feelings about Malick's situation much love to Malik B

but an incident happened at the studio that kind of got us all kicked out. It did get you all. Yeah, it got us all kicked out. Well, here's the thing, though. Sort of overnight, too, as well. It was instantly.

And for me, I kind of played the sentimental card. You remember in Chris Tucker's Money Talks when he was sort of like, what our mom say, man? Come on, pity pat. Yeah, yeah. We go away back. Come on, what would our mama say? Like, it was that situation with me and Joe Tarant.

of the owner of Sigma. He was like, get them out. I want them back here. And I was just like, come on, man. You know my daddy. And my plea was like, at least I didn't want an inconsistent sound. Like, I recorded 70% of the album. Right.

I made 70% of the music in Sigma and I wanted a consistent sound throughout. So he was like, all right, well, I'll let you guys track the music here. But, you know, Malik can never come back here. So thus all the vocals were then done here in this very room that we're in. Wow. So I'll say that adrenaline, all of Side 2 almost. It was all done here. Adrenaline, you got me.

Side 2, what's that? I'm sorry, I'm so old 100% done to you. Everything. And then eventually, once we started working on Phrenology, we just moved here. Stay here. You know, he made us an offer we couldn't refuse. I think the first song I cut here was that was the improncible

the plonk The one that fans are still waiting for you to give them the lyrics too I gotta find it It's somewhere in this building Whatever it was I was cussing out DeAngelo So I'll give you that much This was This was four days after he stood his up for

Break You Off Oh wow I remember that night Yeah I think one of the lines I remember Is meanwhile your heroes running scared some some Like

Oh no No no It was a distract For your ass Anyway Larry how you doing bro I'm sorry

Anyway how's it going Larry Well It's going on Larry Yeah yeah yeah Are you a Philadelphia Native Did you

Yeah I grew up A few blocks from here In North Philly Really? Yeah My dad had a toy store Little You know

Toy and Hardware store we grew up upstairs. Really? What part of N-O-R-T-H or N-O-R-F? The 2,900 block of Frankfurt Avenue, which is the heroin district right now in Philadelphia. It's real hardcore. Really?

Yeah. So, yeah, as a... Let's put it this way. I had many cellos cracked open on the way home from the sub of the elevated. Really? Oh, yeah, I had very. I had to run home sometimes.

Carrying your... Carrying the cello. So it's always been... I guess we should note that I had to find out through a New York Times story that I guess you could say the Kensington section or... It is the... It's the Kensington section.

Even though there's a whole group of 20-year-olds now moving further north than where you guys were. When you were last time... Well, Fistown is becoming gentrified. My goodness, gosh. Yeah, they're trying to... to sell me a crib there for a lot of money.

Fishtown is gentrified, which like 30 years ago, Fishtown was sort of like Bensonhurst. It was good. Oh, yeah, that's the only place in the world I've ever been called a nigger. Yes. In Fishtown? Yeah. Fisdow. Like 30 years ago, it was. In Kensington, I'm not surprised. Well, yeah. I mean. And now, like, some of the world's best restaurants and, you know, Stevens, like, it's upscale. However,

further north, northeast of there, in Kensington, Philly's, like, getting hit with its third wave of, you know, we had a little... Yeah, we had a thing like in 2006. I think we have the worst problem right now of any of the major cities. We are. I really. Yeah, because I was saying, I was like, you know, I think we hit a low point in town here right now.

You know, the school system sucks. You know, I mean, we're, you know, the property taxes are so high that you can't really raise them anymore without people suffering. You know, I mean, it's, you know, time to deal with the cities again, you know, to make a good look at everything. You know, I mean, hey, people aren't getting an even break hit, you know, and that's the thing. Yeah. Ain't going to get easy.

I feel like we have to come back now. Well, I mean, that was kind of the solution before. It was like, nothing's happening in this town. Hey, let's make something happen. Well, you did. You know. You did. I don't know if that's going to say.

That's my little. No, but you represented Philly music for a period of time. I remember early in the 90s, when you guys were first starting, one of the big executives said to me, have you heard the roots? And I said, the roots? Yeah, he said, they're from Philly. And I felt like an ignorant son of a fool.

You know, I had not heard of them. And then I remember you played Columbia's freshman party, and my daughter went to see you when she was a freshman there. And she called me on the phone and said, they're extraordinary. Wow. You know, Dad, you've got to go introduce them. Hi Mark's coming from, you know.

And so you guys were representing Philadelphia long before Neo-Sault. Wow. Thank you. I appreciate that. So where does your musical introductions start? Like, how did you... What were your plans? Were your plans to be like a Curtis Institute?

Yeah, classical cellist. Early on, I got caught by the fever of popular. music though really is a kid so how did you ease out of that and did you disappoint people when you get told okay explain well first of all can you explain a lot of people hold juliard in the highlight of like okay well that's the that's the pinnacle of music education for classical music but can you explain how hard and i think curtis has a harder a way harder curriculum so it's it's it's not particularly a curriculum it's just Curtis has always been about when I was there there were 75

kids. Now there's about 150. Julia there's thousands that take lessons. It's a different kind of entity. You know, I mean, Curtis might be up to 200 by now. I don't know. They built a new building and they got a lot of money and it was a very

private school. Yeah, Curtis is in Philadelphia. Way harder to get into Curtis than, for me at least. Like, I saw the audition. I failed that. And this is a performing art school or Yeah, it's a conservatory. Yeah, it's a conservatory. But it's performing arts, mostly instrumental arts.

You know, it's now operatic and a lot of other things. And I think they're teaching improvisation starting next year. They brought somebody in. And I think they're going to, like everyone else in this world, things have changed since the 60s. In the 60s, you were putting a box. If you got out of that box, nobody knew what to do with you. You know, I mean, it was like, it was a weird. time. You know, when I wanted to be in popular music and classical music, that wasn't even really

possible in the early 60s. What year did you attend, Curtis? I was 15, so that would be in 1963. So by this point, are you seeing your other peers of contemporaries? I was already making a little bit of a living. I met some of the, in those days, the Union in Philadelphia was run by, you know, South Philly musicians. And that's the nice. way I could say. You know, back... You mean some friends of art? Yes.

Yeah. Some, you know, back, all right. Back in the early 60s, I made a... When I first started playing on records, I made a brilliant discovery. There was a white union and a black union. I did not know that. Well, I'm telling you that.

And Mr. Gambo, I know was here yesterday. Kenny was here yesterday. He would have told you that. Which I found amazing. And I don't know much about it, But I know that by the time the mid-60s rolled around, they formed one union. Okay. Okay.

So I would say, I think 66 or something like that, there was one union. Technically, I'm a union guy. Yeah, I know. But I'd never go to the meetings. No, I know. Like, what? Who does the union benefit? Well, because they always ask.

In the old days, it was a real sort of like mob kind of a thing because they would go into a restaurant. and if you had live musicians, they would make sure they were union players. So, I mean, if you're going back, Yeah, exactly. If you go back to the 20s and the 30s and the 40s, yeah, it was a way to collect dues, a way to have easy jobs, you know?

I mean, a way to make sure your musicians union people were represented in these clubs or these places. I always thought the, I think the union's a good thing because I think people take advantage of other people without them at times. Absolutely. Okay. but I also think that the union gets too, like,

anal retentive? Yes, yes. I felt, okay, so in doing the... We both know that. So in doing the Hamilton recording, this is when I knew, like, oh, God, man, these union people get on my nerves. Like, they literally have a person over your shoulder

micromanaging with a stopwatch. Yeah. And it's like, they're always reminding you, like, T-minus three hours and 19 minutes, folks. and it's like, you know, can we get rid of this person? But then they'll get down to like, they'll say T-minus nine minutes

before the first 20-minute break. And they have to make this loud declaration no matter what you're doing. It blows the vibe, but like their job is there to protect. But then I found out once you speak to maybe a label president or whatever and you slide some squirrel or whatever,

then maybe they can just sit in the, in the break room or whatever, like, this happens with, like, the cast albums I've worked on. So I just, I realize that, okay, maybe to protect you so that, you know, I don't underpay you or that sort of thing, you join the union. Then, of course, I have to pay you union scale or double scale or triple scale or whatever your price is. So I see that benefit. And it goes into your health insurance. Yeah.

And also, supposedly, you know, here we. We are talking about this is bullshit, but I mean, supposedly, like, I'm on a pension from them. Your pension, yeah. But they're fucking around with the pension, man. You know, I mean, so I don't know what to say about all these people. But from a non-union perspective, union just looks like heaven. I'm just going to tell you, like, all my life, I mean, even in black,

because black radio has never been unionized. Like, it's a whole thing. So it's like, I've always looked at y'all like, wow, protection, stability. Well, some of it, some of it's good, you know. I see. Do you remember the first professional gig that you did in a studio? I don't. I knew you were going to ask me this and I really,

it was like Cameoam Parkway. It was probably in 1963 or before 62. And I started playing on records. Whenever they used two cellos, there used to be, I guess it was like maybe four violins, one viola, one cello. Then they expanded. they went six violins, two violas, two cellos.

So as soon as they did that, the head guy took a liking to me. He really liked. He was a really good jazz violin player. He grew up legit, but he was more like Jovenuti. He had a real sort of that sound, you know, that most legit players have a great sound, but it's more formal. Okay.

His was much looser, and I liked him. He was a great guy. His name was Domernardo. He's on every record Gamble Enough ever made. Don Ronaldo's strings and horns. Oh, okay. Well, Don Ronaldo. That was the name of the...

Of the strings and horns. Oh. In other words, it was always said none of our individual names. Right. It was Don Ronaldo's strings and horns. So he was an executive at the union. He got me into the union. I was probably 14 or something.

He was supposed to be 16. Okay. And he started getting me gigs. Okay, this is something that I should know that I don't know. can you explain the difference between the violin, the viola, and the cello and the bass? Yes, the bass. Okay.

So those four string instruments, the bass starts the first string on the bass, the lowest string is like an E. Low E on the piano. Right, low E on the piano. The lowest string on the cello is a C above that. C. Right, a C above that. Okay.

The next, on the viola, the lowest string is an octave above that cello C, a C. C. Right. Then on the violin, the lowest string is the G above that C, which is the G below middle C. Yeah. Okay. So there's a different range of... It encompasses the whole bottom of the piano and the whole top of the piano.

The violin goes from that G almost to the end of the piano. Okay. A great violinist can go all the way to the end. So violin has more range. Viola has half the range? No, but viola can go very high too, but not as high sounding as the violin. It would be an octave under the violin,

even at his highest. Oh, okay, okay. So the violin gets up where the birdies go. So the, what we know as the sound of Philadelphia? Was mostly six violins, two violas, two cellos. doubled. And sometimes we performed it. That kills me. We performed, well, sometimes we performed it three times.

And the best takes were, you know, I mean, you didn't have, you see, you didn't have the luxury in those days of like, you had to know you had a good performance. And then you doubled it onto two. You, you, in the early days with 16 track or eight track, you, you, you had to already bounce it to move it. Ooh. Double it. So you had to have a good track to begin with, and then you were going, taking that old track and the new track, the old track out of phase and the new track.

Moving them together? Yeah, moving them together. Is there a risk that, oh, I didn't notice that? You know what? It would be naturally out of phase because it was two different performances, too. You know, no two performances are exactly the same. So there wouldn't be like... But is there a risk of, say, maybe the bass is now out of tune

and his A is slightly off And now that's messing up the song. There's always that risk. And a lot of times if you go listen to the strings, they're attuned. Really? But yet, so are the vocals. A lot of that stuff's a little bit attuned.

You know that. But it all works together in the song. But a lot of times you're listening solos. So you're, if it's attitune, you do it again. So you might end up doing your double a couple of more times than you would. But people copy. much easier back in those days.

They were just looking for a feel on those records. It was more short. They were elegant and there were certain producers that wanted it pristine. You take someone like Bert Bacharach who came into the city a few times. You know, and everything had to be precise and exact, you know, I mean, but there were an awful lot of people that that was not the case. They were like unmade beds. You know, as soon as they got the feel of the record right, that was it.

they didn't care what was in tune or attitude. Right, as long as it felt right. As long as it felt right. So you're trying to tell me, I'm trying to think of, okay, so like stairway to heaven. That's already 24 track or 16, 24 track. But even you're, like, in my, OJ's not Led Zeppelin. Yeah, OJ's just a stairway to happen. I had nothing to do with Led Zeppelin.

Just for those listening. A song like Stairway to Heaven that I, when I hear it, I'm just imagining. it's 50 of you in a room doing these strings and it's really just 12, 14. Well, it's 10 doubled. Damn. So the first... See, Phil Ramon couldn't get over that.

That's what it was, too. I can't get over there. I mean, you know what? I had, I always had my problems with Joe Tarzia, but I have to say he was a fucking good engineer. Really? Yeah. You know, I always thought they were a little bit too aggressive for me.

And maybe, you know, maybe other people felt that way, you know, just as people in a way. When I lived... Aggressive, like, don't move the microphones. No, no, no, no, no, no. Just aggressive as people. Oh, okay. You know, I mean, they didn't fit into my hippie self, you know. They rubbed me the wrong way a little bit.

Oh, okay. But he was a great fucking engineer. They made great records there. He taught a lot of my friends how to make magnificent, you know, records, you know, Donald Murray, who did all those spinners records. And, you know, some of the young people eventually did some of the records we all know as the Philly Sound. Joe did a lot of, Joe sat next to Gamble making his records, you know. Right. Those stairway, that was Joe Targey as Stairw to Heaven.

And he had a slate floor at 309 that he put the strings on. on the slate floor. So he was getting a lot of bounce out of the sound of the strings. So strings would be cut on 309 Broad Street at PR. A lot of times, yeah. Because they realized that, first of all, it was right next door to where Kenny and Leon lived mostly,

which their offices were. Right. Okay. And where they wrote the songs. And here they built a really nice studio that, you know, for the 70s was sort of state of the art. It had shag carpet. You know, a lot of the studios in the 70s

were like, that. And it had a slate floor and hardwood. And it had a lot, it had a real live sound off the floor, but then when it hit the, hit the walls, it was pretty dead. Like they had the drums right, they cut a lot of the drum tracks over there. See, in my mind, I thought they were cutting upstairs in the Cigna room. Not a lot. Not by the time they built 309. Okay. Now, I wish Kenny was here, but I think, I think in 1973, he opened 309 South Broad. which was already a recording studio when it opened up. There was a record.

First of all, that was where Camion Parkway had an enormous studio, three times the size of this room. Wow. That was when the early days when I first went in to make a record, there were 34 musicians and singers in the room at the same time. The strings were in one corner, the horns were in another corner, the rhythm was all in the center. Tracking all at once.

Tracking all at once. how do you when you record that way and this is before overdub. We used to do that sometimes with MFSB too but that was in a much smaller room this was a big room

and that's because you can't overdub and add later but how many times would you have to go over a song so that the engineer makes sure I mean so the engineer can ensure that they have a perfect performance I think

I think when I was there it seemed like the engineers were very efficient getting a sound out of all of these musicians at one time. You know, it might have taken an hour to get the sound, and then they might have recorded a couple of songs. You might have to run the song four or five times, just to get... Six times. But, you know, I mean, they were micing most of the amps.

The guitar was, you know, I don't think direct boxes. I even think Joe Tarjeet invented a direct box that was used all over the world. after that, you know, early 60s. We got to get Joe Tarce. I knew you was about to say that. On the show.

He should be here now. I'm sorry, Steve, I interrupted you. Oh, no. I was just wondering, so like, let's say the first set of horns and strings, just the two tracks? Well, it all went down to two track,

like an Apex two track. Okay. Or a Scully. This is like the best of my recollection. Besides playing and everything, I was already an audio freak. My father had bought me the first webcore portable tape recorder that I was turning over. I was already fascinated by popular music all through this whole time. I wasn't going to give up at Curtis because getting in the Curtis was my main goal, you know, so, but I was fascinated by popular music. And I was watching these guys.

And yeah, they had it down to a science, man. They really did. They were fast, efficient. But it's not like they were micing each instrument like we do now, like with its own track. With the strings, there was one mic for three violins, another mic for three violins. The cellos had separate mics. And the viola had one mic. So that's the way those were miced.

And then, but when it went to tape, it was just. When it went to horns, you had all ribbon mics on the horns. Yeah, each horn had a mic. Yeah. When they played a chord, the engineer had to get a balance. on the chord, yeah, and the strings too. And they had to run it down enough times where the engineer felt comfortable.

But they were also singing live. They might not sing at that time we did the tracking in those early days because what they did was then they went to another machine to put the vocals on. They took the instrument and went to the second machine and laid down the lead vocal on the background vocals so they could put them way out front.

And if you listen to some of those old, records. The vocals are like this compared to the music. I mean, they're way out front. How would they add the, I guess, okay, there's the string section, but then there's also, what do you call them, chamber or like the, the sousaphone and the trumpets and the... They were all there live, too. If you were going down the two track, there was, the only overdubs, I think they did early on, were vocals to another machine. So the strings and all the horns would be tracked at the same time? And that's why they had big studios in those days.

They baffle things off. I was going to say the bleeding must have been horrible for an engineer, though. But they got an overall sound. In other words, if you listen to some of those records, they made them bigger, Amir, because everyone was in the same room. Because the strings had some horns in them. The horns had some strings in them. The guitar, you know what I'm saying?

Everybody had a lot of all the other elements. Sort of. I mean, you tried to do the best you could isolate things, but it was impossible to isolate things. That's like the ultimate restriction. It's just like you have to record everything at the same exact time. Yeah, there's too much pressure.

It was pressure. Well, I'm just used to, I mean, I've made complete records that sound like, you know, ensembles jelling together and, you know. But when you do... And I'm just playing drums by myself for like 10 minutes imagining what's going to sound like later and that sort of thing.

I can't even imagine that. But like when you did the Hamilton record, that's everybody altogether too, wasn't it? Or did you do that in part? No, that, all the rhythm tracks were done together. And then, yes, they all. Right. They did, but then in the middle of it,

I guess we realized that this is going to be thriller. Like there was a point where it was just like, okay, Hamilton is whatever. Right. Just record top to bottom, that sort of thing. But then. Which is the way Broadway cast albums are usually... Yeah, but then there was one point where it was like, okay,

they might have to spend more money. And that's the thing, like, Atlantic Records realized early that this could change the game. And so they were like, okay, we're willing to invest more money in this and mix each individual song and that, you know, any other Broadway record, like in 14 albums hours, Like you spend five hours tracking, three hours over dubbing. And then, you know, it's just one big giant mix and then that's it.

But, yeah, we spent three to four months mixing and really sweetening up that record. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me,

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice. ever. I went and had lunch with them one day and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. That it still sounds like the sound of Philadelphia, even though different people are at the helm. So there are songs that Norman Harris produced that had nothing to do with Gamble and Huff that still use the same players that still use the same studios and you can't tell a difference.

But they were part of the original Gamble and Huff sound to begin with, though. You picked the name Norman Harris was definitely part of that original rhythm section. You go back and name a song, an early Gamble and Huff song and it was either rolling chambers. He was in a group with the chambers.

One of them played drums and the other one played guitar. I think Dennis was his name. I'm really digging deep, you know, and make a long story short, I think Norman Harris played on a lot of those records. So he was part of that sound. And he was also, Norman Harris was like a genius R&B dude.

But how many, I'm trying to figure out teams because this is another thing, that you see on credits, you'll see string arranger, rhythm arranger, right, background vocal arranger. Right. Which, I feel like these are like little titles handed out from the producer so that

no one has to, so that they, the producer can protect their turf and in a way that's your credit. That's true. So it's, all right, so when you're dealing with, okay, so someone brings, used to be my girl, the OJs. I'm assuming that the rhythm track is done first

I don't exactly know for sure well I'm wait for typical if I'm not mistaken that song was done with the old rhythm section okay so it was Norman and Ronnie and Leon and I left somebody out I'm sorry you get specific

I just wanted to know the the fact process. So it starts with the rhythm tracks first. Right. And then vocals. Okay. Oh, the rhythm track, then the vocals. Vocals. And then strings and horns. Okay. So then someone gives a tape to, who

would do the actual writing of what after the vocal? Gamble and Huff went string-wise on them. After the vocals were done, a cassette was handed to somebody and they went home and wrote an arrangement. With no machines, you used the piano and you came up

with lines or he came up with cordial things, you know, when you wrote string and horn parts. How many days do you have to do this? It depended. Sometimes I did it in the studio at times when they added a song or two, you know, I mean, they would forget. I mean, Dexter did it at times in the studio too. Not the best way to do it, but yeah, I would, it would maybe a week. You know, you might have five days to a week to do a couple arrangements. Do you have a particular memorable favorite of yours that you worked on that... Back in that day? Yeah, back in that day, McFadden and Whitehead really gave me the opportunity.

I think they hired an arranger who didn't show up one day. And I think Tommy bells around and Tommy said, you know, let Larry try it. You know, yeah. I think, I think Tommy said, because I think Tommy was a little upset that they were hiring people that he didn't think really knew. they were doing at times you know i mean but he could answer you better than i can yeah i was gonna say how how can you you know because you know you someone who can come up with hey look it's like all i do is write strings okay most of my life that's all i did and when i work on a record sometimes people give me a string line and when when people give me a string line it's going to be a hard for me to

link that string line go away right because first of all they liked it enough to give it to me Yeah, I mean, they're married to it. Yeah, they might be married to it. Well, sometimes that happened with Gamble and Huss, you know, with McFadden and they were married to something and they would tell me that, you know. But and a lot of times in today's market, I get it and I have to deal with it. And a lot of times I think I can do better and I throw away and I hopefully do better, you know. How does one, I was about to say in, at least in the 70s and 80s,

there's a lot of trust that one has to put in an arranger because it's not like, yeah, the technology today to play on synthesizer or whatever that what you have planned for me. So it's almost like I have to sit there in real time and listen to you. You know, so they ain't no stopments now comes along. The producer came out into the studio and you had your string players there and they put your phones on like we have. Play me what you got. Play me what she got.

Let me how good it is, Goldie. Let's see what you did. So, has there ever been a case where an arranger had something? And they were sort of like, it's a little too Stravinsky for me. Like, you went darker. Like, how do you know? Well, in the Philly sound, I don't know whether Stravinsky played in too much. Okay, well, let's pick something adventurous.

All right, so let's take Knights over Egypt, which has quite an adventurous beginning, at least. Progression. Yeah. in the first 30 seconds. So that's Dexter. He wrote the arrangements too? I think so, yeah. Oh, okay.

I didn't think that the actual producer. I think that's Dexter. Dexter wrote his own string arrangements. I want to tell you something. Back in the day, yeah, back in the day, Ronnie Baker wrote string arrangements. Norman Harris was brilliant, real great string arrangements.

Earl didn't. But everybody else, Ronnie Kersey wrote good arrangements. Everybody sort of did. grew up writing music from high school. You know, everybody got into, you know, had that as a skill. So, I mean, and I learned a lot.

Hey, look, man, the best arranger ever passed out of, passed through Philadelphia. I think he's dead now, but, uh, it was Bobby Martin, who was an old school from the 30s arranger, you know, who played vibes, you know, I mean. I know Bobby's name well, yeah. On an average week, how often would you work? A couple of days.

A couple of days. It depends. During the disco times, it was like four days a week, maybe five days a week. So was that a good living in Philadelphia? Oh, yeah, really good. From people from all over the world, though, you know. I mean, we did, people don't realize this, but we did like all of Jacques Morales' records, YMCA. What?

Oh, yeah. Wow. That's MFSB. What? Wow. Non-credited, the Ritchie family was MFSP. Yeah, yeah, rich. They're from Philly too.

Yeah. But, okay, so. Yeah. Jacques Marale. Okay, Jacques Mara. I remember, you know, I mean, my memory is good when I wanted to be, and not so good when I, obviously, when I don't want it to be. But I remember there was a, some fancy Paris nightclub where they danced naked.

And it was the high-pointed disco music. And this guy named, I think, Benalil or something. And Jacques Morali was the producers. And they brought over. and they did, the first records they did was were Richie Rome and it was called the Richie family. Right. And it was MFSB, you know, done with their melodies

that they brought in a little more European flair and that Richie did for them. And they put vocals on them and they did pretty good. And then the next group I think they came back with after they had a lot of success with that was the village people. Wow. Wow. You know, and I remember they came to Philly

and they had a suitcase full of cash. back in those days. Some of these people, literally a suitcase full of cash to pay the musicians. Really? Yeah. Step in our office, here you go. Stepping our office, here you go. But that was not talking about non-union work.

Right, right. What other non-Philadelphia international projects were you part of that are on that caliber? There were a lot of things. I mean, for a while there, Norman Harris was working for Motown. So if you go back and look at some of those records in the mid-70s through the late end of the 70s.

I don't know whether it was maybe the temps, the four tops, some of those records. We did a bunch of those records, too. Really? Yeah. It's amazing. Well, it's not so. My brain is risen.

You know, if you think about it, I think Barry Gordy wanted to pick up on Philly was really kicking butt then. You know, those mid-70 years to the late years, I mean, it's hard to find a place that sold more records than Philly International. Right up. Do you guys recall doing any work with Bernard Wright and Nile Rogers, the Sikh people at all?

No. I went to power... Oh, what did I say? Right. You did it. Oh, I'm sorry. Bernard Edwards. I did, I went to Power Station to play on a few things, but I'm not going to remember the name. Okay. We took... Power Station is Niles. Right. We took a power station as Niles headquarters. We took a, bus there and all MFSB played all day, maybe one or two days and we came home and I don't remember what record was. Oh, okay.

I also smoked a lot of pot on that, literally. Which I always do and we all know that. So you're hippie, man. I get it. I get it. When, is there a particular date that you can pinpoint that you notice like, like, okay, this might be an end of an era or we're not being used as much or. Yeah.

Yamaha DX-7 is now, like, the synthesizers are coming. Guess what? You just did the top three right there. You know, the Yamaha was definitely a... A problem. Well, it wasn't a problem, but I started getting calls for some arranging them. They would ask me if I would use the Yamaha, the D-7, was it? DX-7 to use them for the strings instead of paying the string players.

Wow. And I thought to myself, You know, I mean, this is, and that was like, you know, it was sort of getting into the late 70s when I felt like it was court tailing. And plus the records started sucking, too. A lot of the records weren't nearly as good. I was not looking forward to go to work and you're, you know, all day long, you know. I mean, so, but it was making a living, you know, and, and I started looking around at that moment

at the end of 70s, I mean, even Gamble will tell you, I started working, for Sesame Street towards the end of the 70s. Really? Yeah. I found a few people that I connected with. As a matter of fact, the gentleman here yesterday, he and I had a nice conversation. Wow.

Let me find out you playing on the disco frog. I did not know that. Yeah, I thought you did. Remember, we one time discussed, I did teeny little super guy. Oh, what? Yeah, we, I thought you remembered that. Oh, my God.

That was done in Philly. Yo, dude, I just turned into an eight-year-old. Me too. Yo! You got to find it. That was Esther Mohawk, who did the theme for teeny little. It was an old hippie who was signed by Frank Zappa back in the 60s. Oh, man.

That's crazy. That's what we did. That's what we did. Started doing in the tail end of the 70s through the 80s. We did Jerry and I, first of all, we were friends from early on. I knew him when he was playing with Frankie Beverly in the 60s, a little bit. He was a hippie. and great keyboard player.

Okay. And yeah, and we all through the 80s, we were at Sigma, and we did a lot of commercials. We did a lot of different things. I was going to say, did you do any like the local? Oh, all of them. A lot of- Philly stuff, the action news.

Well, I actually know what I'm working on right now, K-Y-W. I'm doing a big orchestral arrangement for K-Y-W, the news rating. They're upgrading? Yeah. So is the new in and out? Like, every day out. No, it's the same K-Y-W, but I mean, it's just,

someone else wrote something where I'm going to put the strings on. But we did like New Jersey, New Jersey Transit. I mean, I used to get like Bunny Sigler to sing. I did one commercial with Lou Rawls sang. I did, yeah, I mean, I had a good time with it. And people were willing to pay decent money in those days. Did you do the- And let me smoke reefer in the studio.

What? That's the most important. When did you decide to establish your, own business and open up a studio. And what told you that, Phil, you needed one? Well, the 80s were, as you well know, in, I went from doing all of that in the 70s to having nothing left of Gamble and Huff. I mean, they sort of just shut down completely.

But they'd never, they did, but they didn't. But they didn't. It was always there. It's just nobody was productive. Yeah, but to make one record a year. or you couldn't count on that to make a living like we did for a while. I mean, there were a lot of people that did real well

and you counted on it to make a living. So in a way, to me, it did shut down. And what happened was the 80s, as you guys know far better than I do, I've just been on the journey of black music, but rap started. And then rang. Okay. And I happened to be, okay,

we were doing this stuff with the Sesame Street. We were doing okay. And all of a sudden, this artificial, intelligent music things started appearing and more readily. I mean, drum machines, we always bought whatever was new and tried around, and we would fool around with it. And even the DX7, we had it. I remember sitting in the living room when I was playing the strings sounds and said, they're kidding me, aren't they? You know, thinking that all you could do was these heavenly pads, you know, which is okay. but every record going to have heavenly pads on it.

In the 80s? Yes. Yeah. So make a long story short. We ended up, Jerry and I ended up moving into with Studio 4 early on. And they ended up starting to do more rap. And I met Lawrence Goodman.

I think Kenny actually told Lawrence Goodman to introduce himself to me. And he came to Sigma. We were still at Sigma. And he was tired, okay, he'd have to tell you himself, but I think that he wasn't getting any publishing royalties. And he wanted to know if Jerry and I could copy some, he would bring a record and saying, can you make something that sounds like this, you know, for work for hire?

Really? Oh, yeah. So I think we did that for a little while for him at Sigma. And then we moved, we left and went somewhere else. And, yeah, we went to victory. What was it called? Victory. Or cage them. Yeah, or Cageum.

And we started them. We did Steady B and Cool C. We did a whole bunch of albums there with them. You know, um, it was a living. Synth arrangements or? Yeah. Sing,

Clavier arrangements. I bought the, I bought a sync lavier like 83 or 84. I took the Sesame, I took some of the monies and borrowed money at the bank. Somebody co-signed the loan for me. I bought that fucking expensive thing, man. I'm willing to bet. he might not remember I'm willing to bet.

So since back when Salt and Pepper were Super Nature. They were at Studio 4. You got it, Amir. I bet you that they commissioned them to play the Revenge of the Nerds. All right, so you remember their first record was the showstopper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And their music was the Revenge of the Nerd song. I'm almost willing to bet

because all the credits on the showstopper says it was done at studio for and on a sinclavia. Yeah, well, that was my sinclaviour on the studio. I'm almost willing to bet. How did the sinclavia work? Except you've got to understand that, you know,

hey, look, when I had Jerry as my partner, I didn't even play really. I mean, I dreamed. I composed, like I always had done. But he was a much bad. or keyboard player than I could have ever dreamed to be. And so he played. So that was my impetus and even buying it to begin with

because I realized, first of all, we went up to New York, they gave us a morning with it. And he and I, in the morning, we created some pretty hot tracks, you know, just fucking around. You know, we looked at each other and the bass, you could feel the bass, you know, and, you know, when you had a lind drum machine,

and somehow this had SMPTY. It had all the things that were coming into being at that moment. So was it like a computer? It is. I still have it. I still use it to this day. Oh, wow. It sounds like shit.

Oh, that's right. You still use it to arrange you? I still use it. Wow. That's from then. That's crazy. It's now like 40-some years. No, 30-some years old.

Wow. Ooh, that's crazy. The only person I knew was Stevie. Right. Right, right. But you can't do chords on it, can you? Yeah. So it's not monolithic?

No, it's, it's, no, it's, it's got 64 voices. It was a, it was a genius thing when it was invented. So is it a keyboard? Like, what's it? It's a keyboard. Okay. Yeah. But it just sounds like, uh, orchestral.

Yeah. It comes with, yeah, it comes with orchestral patches, right? It's been perfected now beyond belief. But back then, you had to pay a lot of money to get something that sounds. And also to have memory enough To be able to do it You know, in other words To record a song inside a little box

You know, I think that back in those days We had I don't know, eight megs of memory Or something which was unheard of A Lynn drum machine had one meg Yeah, it did So this was eight It was a nightmare

Right, it was a night You had to move, open up the back And move the chip Right You guys remember? I mean, I remember, well I mean I collect them now Okay But I think I'd have a,

I wasn't dependent on it for work, but I've talked to enough 80s drummers that, you know, have had nightmares with that machine, you know, moving the chips and that sort of thing. And keeping it in sync? Yeah. Sync was always a problem, even though they said everything. Bobby Z would tell me nightly, like,

the song would start fluctuating faster, fast, faster, you know, that sort of thing. So that was a nightmare for him. So when did the studio open in 1999? No, the studio opened, when did the roots come here? About 98?

98, yeah. Okay, so the studio opened two years before then. So 96. And why I opened the studio was because I sort of was at that place in Society Hill was my, I was at Sigma. I thought Sigma was going to go bankrupt

because I don't know, maybe I shouldn't even tell this story, but anyway. You probably should tell it. We know. Make a long story short, I was told to get all my equipment out because I owned my equipment in my room there. Right. So I left Sigma.

I had to leave over the weekend, sort of. And I moved into what was KJM, okay, that was bought by another dude. Who owned Kajum? Kajum was owned by... At one point, I'm not going to remember. He was a really good engineer. When I first opened here, he came here, and he got great sound out of this room. He was a really good engineer.

Okay. And I'm not, I'm sorry. I'm not going to run. remember. I might as we continue conversing I might remember his name. But I'm not going to remember his name. But I'm not going to remember his name. He was a very good engineer. At one point, Boysman purchased Kajum. They did. Yeah, doing they did. They did. And well, while, while these guys owned it, Jazzy moved in there, too. Jeff moved. Somehow, somehow, Jeff ended up. Studio 4 and Cage him. No, before Studio 4. Oh, okay. I think he and James Poiser.

I met out there. And I think that was the early 90s. Really? I think so. Okay. And Victor. Right. Victor.

They were a touch of jazz out there then. Right. They were. They were. And I met them. I did that Whitehead Brothers record. That must have been in the early 90s. And that's when I met James.

Oh, wow. They did I'm not a I don't want to be a They took I don't want to be a G No They took

Yeah they took Pete Rock's Number one Soul Brother Oh Yeah Do do Do do Yeah

Yeah Feel your pain Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah I love that But did you know

The 86 record No I didn't know The 86 Oh It's like on Atlantic Or something Right

I think Philly International I had to deal with Manhattan Records. Capital. Yeah, yeah, capital. Kenny and Johnny. The Whitehead brothers.

Yeah, yeah. And they were the sons of... John Whitehead. Of the... Oh, okay, gosh. Yeah, John Whitehead. And I've been messing around with them

since they were really little. Oh, wow. Yeah, really little. On the low, Kenny, the youngest one is Kenny, right? Yeah, he would come and hang out at my studio at, like, 13 years old. Okay, so you know the cliche of whenever musicians go in a music store and like store managers forbade them to play like stairway to heaven, that sort of thing or like the opening chords of Purple Hays?

Like Kenny on the low, he could shred like Hendricks. I was like, whoa, this is the Whitehead brother guy. But this back when he was like 14, like he was a great guitar shredder, but sort of shrugged it off like, yeah, you know, whatever. He was a talented young kid. He was. He could play piano really well too.

Yeah, I mean, it was a, it would, we did a whole bunch of records that never came out. Right. Gamble, they were signed, you were right, they were signed to that label and there would, and I don't know how many records I helped through those years, okay? But then they got signed to Motown.

Yeah. And they started the album in California, and they came back to my studio with maybe one or two songs done. And we ended up doing the rest of the album at the studio with the Sinclaver. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I think I got associate producer credit on that,

which I think, yeah, or co-producer. you know, that was about right. He really, you know, I mean, yeah, and we did that beautiful Black Princess song, which had a beautiful string arrangement on it, and I got so much notice from that, you know, because it was an

old Philly kind of song, you know, and Kenny sang it so good. So. Yeah, I wore that album out back then. See, a lot of people did, and I got I got real notice from that. So you ask me why, why I opened this place is I knew that I still had a little bit in me to be able to help young kids make good products.

You know, you know, so, but you need, you need major talent. Let's face all facts, guys. Right. You know, you need good people on every little level. So I want to ask you about that. So, in doing a string arrangement, and you have your chair order, like, you know, first viola, second viola, whatever, how important is it? Because, I mean, if you have, I don't know if it's 40 pieces or whatever, how exact does it have to be to say, oh, the fifth cello is a little out or whatever, I don't know. Like with so many people, how is it that one person can make that big of a difference?

Like if you hear someone is a little flat, like, can you hear that? Does it really make a difference? You can hear it. Really? Sure, you could hear it. Yeah, I mean, you wanted to sound malefluous. I used that word before we're on it. You know, you wanted to sound organic.

I mean, a little bit of here and there, that's all part of life, you know. But when something's really whack, you know it's whack. You can hear it. You know, when there's a wrong note, you know, there were arrangements we did, you know, which, you know, some of them I wrote, some of them I didn't write, where I could swear there was just some note rubbing somewhere down the line, you know. But it was all live, you know, and I had to get over it. Was it, did you have, like, certain favorites that you have in terms of, hey, I need a viola? I know this guy or this girl. Yeah, I did for years, and now I'm relying on younger people now.

You know, I'm bringing in, you know, different people. And I still only use, like, maybe, like this week I'm doing a date for, I'm doing a record for some young kid in Indiana. And I'm only using 10 musicians, you know, I still do that. And I double. And sometimes if I want it to be a little even bigger, you know, I'll even triple it. Or I'll write another part for it. So that it sounds like it's more than it is. Got you. I was always curious to know about Vince Montana.

Yeah, he was a good friend. Yeah, yeah. He used to come to the studio an awful lot. Okay, yeah. This place. In other words, even by the time I opened this place, Ronnie Baker was dead and Norman Harris was dead. Earl Young used to come here all the time. Oh, wow.

Yeah, and Vince came here all the time, and Leon used to come here all the time. And Kenny comes and uses the studio at times. I mean, he doesn't really work that much, but I mean, he has come. And Vince, was he a, keyboard player? He was a vibe player. Oh, he's a vibe player.

Okay. Yeah, I just knew him from a goody-goody. It looks like love. That's like, I love that song. He was a South Soul Orchestra. My uncle was a huge. I played in the South. I played all those records with him.

And I, you know, I even went out live with him. But he, I don't like talking ill of people, you know. But he was always a pain of my butt. He always made shit hard, you know. I mean, life should be, try to make it a little easier. You know, but he was. always like stir the pot, man. They needed weed.

Yeah, he did. He did it. And he didn't. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilbert. through conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest

moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck.

I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.

I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be... Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The third tier of your story, of course, is you as an arranger.

And this is... I mean, just the names alone are straight humble brags. I mean, it's Al Green. You got me that gig. Oh, no, I'm just saying, let's play, let's go on. I had good friends here. You know, you know that. Or sometimes about the relationships.

Yeah, it is about relationship. Let's go through them. So that was cut here. Lay down, you did they're here? Uh-huh. Y'all did the Al Green record here? We cut the rhythm tracks at Electric Lady. Oh, okay.

And synthest strings to Lerick. Gotcha. So there's Al Green, there's Amos Lee. There's Amos Lydler, Angelique Kujo. Amosley grew up Philly. You know that. Yeah. Okay.

And Nesby, Anthony Hamilton, Aretha Franklin. Backstreet Boys. Pabelle, Gerberto. Brandy. Bubba Sparks. The boy is mine. Case, you did the... I did the boys.

You did the boys mine. Well, that was when Rodney Jurgens. When I opened the studio here, Rodney was my first client. I was about to say, I first met Rodney. See, here we go back now. He was 15.

When I was working with Kenny Gamble, that's right. That's right. When I was working with Kenney, not Kenny Whitehead. Wrong Kenny. Rodney loved that album. So he came up and introduced his father made his father driving from Atlantic City, Pleasantville, New Jersey, up here

to introduce himself to me. And he was this little kid, you know, and I told Alan Rubens at the time, we were working on some project that he always had me working on different things, whether they were good or bad. And I said, you should let him produce a couple of tracks. Do me a favor. I know he's

14 years old. I know. But do me a fair. And Alan Rubens was my age, you know, he's a nice guy I'd worked for him my whole life. You own WMOT. Remember that, Al? That label. Okay. Make a long story short.

The double Dutch budget. And you know who represented Rodney Jerkins? Who? First time I met. Brad Rubin. That's it. Brad. That was the early 90s.

Yeah, Doreenella Duff Half-Life. He brought Rodney to the studio. He was 15. 14 or 15? 14. And he was like, Brad's like, this kid's going to run the world one day. And I was looking at you like. So.

Well, guess what? He came to my studio and I had that one of my whirlersers there. He said, and start playing me a Stevie Wonder songs. You know, and I said, I said, you're my friend, you know, and beautiful, it was really well thought of, and, and he looked at me, big smile on his face, and he loved, he and Kenny got along really well, and, yeah, so that was the beginning there, and then I opened this place. You asked me, I, and I thought by meeting all these really talented young people, I had a feeling

that somehow there was going to be a research. of the Philly Sound. I had a sneaky suspicion. Before it happened. Before it. Well, it was already happening, meeting people like Rodney. Right. And meeting having Kenny Whitehead there,

having hit records right then. Come on. It was happening, you know. And I got to say that Larry, I mean, what really makes the studio special? And even though it's now Mill Boy here and it's a little different. And I'm not here all the time either.

you know, anymore. Yeah, but I'm just saying that the vibe of this place, the luck. First of all, you made the first studio I've ever seen that has windows in it. Yeah, I like that. Next to casinos, I've never seen a business that shut you out from daylight. I've never been in a studio that gives you any sort of time or day indication whatsoever. So when you go into the reception area. And you see the whole city.

Right. Yeah, it's just like, you know. You know, I mean, I shot my album cover of Philadelphia experiment on the roof. On the rooftop here. It's just, it feels like home, you know. I mean, I've spent the night here millions of times. And, you know, my record. I mean, you all have not, I mean, thanks to the roots, y'all kind of made it home, putting, you know, poles and graffiti.

We'll get to that. I was just, you know, you know, we'll get to that. I thought we were going to skip that. Oh, no, no, no, man. That's the main attraction, me. But wait, we need Richard Nichols here. I hear you. But there's more.

There's bumper sparks. There's case. There's changing faces. There's Charlie Wilson. There's Christina Aguilera. There's Cromio. There's Coco. There's common.

There's, uh, oh, Daly. Damn, Daly was here, too. Darrell Hall, John Oates. Dave Cos was here. Uh, Jazzy Jeff. Donnell Jones. Uh, Drew Hill. Eddie Lavert.

Jorl. Oh, man. Yo, the funniest. The break me off. Break you off. Sessions. No, but not even that. Whenever Gerald Levert came to the studio.

He was here a lot, too. It was just, it was a part. Like, I really missed that guy. You know what I mean? While we're talking about Gerald, you did the strings for answering service? Yeah. Oh, man. The intro on that, man?

Yeah. I think I almost broke that tape, just rewinding those strings on that intro over and over again. That was beautiful. Gerald and I were, he was a good friend. He was really a good kid. I met him at Sigma in the 80s when he had that Levert. He was it all Levert. Backward and he used to work with what Jim Salamone?

That's right. They did that record together. Yeah, Jim Salamone used to play a shout out to Jim Salamone. He used to be my dad's drummer. Eric Bonae. I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't know that. In the 70s, Jim used to drum for my dad.

Eric Robeson, Eric Badu, Floatry, Glenn Lewis, NDI, N, D.I.R. Jagged Edge. First album, India, Ivery. Sorry, I just had to say it. The Jazz and Fat Nastys. Jennifer Lopez, whom used Bruce Whedian.

And his... Graced us with her presence for a few weeks. You did a... I was on... You guys... When Zylo was here... When Jail was here... When Jail was here...

We were on our P's and Q's. It was so clean here. We all wore suits. Oh, wow. You had catered, the best catered food in the world. There was roses here. They did that. I didn't do.

I did buy flowers. And I bought nice hand soap. Yo, I was upgraded the handbook. There was popery. There was popery. Wait a minute. You're playing on Karen Young's hot shot. Yeah.

The disco classic. Yeah. I was just listening to that this morning just off the stretch. That record was made. was made in a studio that was in fabric row off of 4th Street in Philadelphia and South Philadelphia that's not there anymore. Jesus. Wow, I didn't even realize.

Like, I'm just going through Kid Cutty. Amir, I played on thousands of records. Played. They're not listed there. It says a member of MFSB at some point it says in some of those credits. I'm going to do everything. You know, but the things, yeah, I did all Kid Cuddy's records. He did call them, Larry.

Just say it. Kanye. What about Lana Del Rey's premier album? Ah, yeah. So are you, is it still like, I mean, how often are you doing, are you to the place now where you can't do any more arrangements or? I like doing it. So that's still your, do you still get up at 5 a.m. to.

I don't get up at, I do get up with it. I do get up really early in the morning. I will. But I don't come here as obsessively as I used to. I mean, I would get here at six in the morning, and you guys would still be up recording from the night. You would creep around like mice. You would laugh a lot about it, and I'd go into my room and work.

No, we just don't want to interrupt you. So the thing is, like, usually when the sun comes out, I'm like, all right, I better run in the bathroom real quick because I know Larry's about to start his scales. But it's kind of that creeping in the house where you know, like there's a creek in the floor or that sort of thing. You don't step on that spot yet. Wake up your mom and dad.

sort of thing. So I had like a system of I know where the, the special planks are that will give me away and the squeak of the door and all that stuff. So that was my everyday ritual like 5.45 a.m. Like, all right, let me do my business before I hear. Yeah. And so you would still practice your scales every morning. I still. Well, I mean, there was there was a period of time when I was so busy that I really didn't. But now I'm back. I'm back. But I, I reversed it. So now I go home like, and I start playing around three to four in the afternoon and I play until I have to fall asleep at night. Wow.

So I enjoy it that much, you know. I mean, I'm still playing. And a lot of times I just start somewhere and I end up somewhere else. But I'm actually playing a little better than I remember and playing in a while, you know. I mean, I'm about as good as I was when I was maybe 14 right now. But I'm...

That's weird how the peaks of valleys and the dips start, like... Yeah. But when you don't play, you lose your technique. And you have to rebuild your technique properly. And I'm, you know, I'm 71 now. And there really, a lot of bones you ache and a lot of things are changed now than when you're little. You know, but it's cool. I'm really liking it.

Yeah, I was going to say, how much in playing the cello, how much, I guess, does the physicality play, like, is age? Like, is it a, like, hands thing? It's all hands. All hand. So any kind of arthritis or anything that'll slow you up. Yeah. have there's certain looseness. Amir will tell you any good musician,

the approach to playing, you want it to be real natural, you know, and you don't even want to think about the physicalness of it, right, Amir? Yeah, well, I was going to say, how do you adjust that now? Only recently, Sheila, I told you about the trick that Sheila E. taught me, right?

All right, so I'll say that I'm at the very beginning stages of what I mean, I don't want to put it out there, whatever, I don't know if it's arthritis or carpal tunnel. You're feeling something. Yeah, it's just a lot of tightness.

So, you know, I've been open to CBD oil and all these things to help with the aches and pains. Sheila E. told me, go to Trader Joe's and get the big ass bag of rice, like the family supply of right, like the big giant supply. If I have a refrigerator or freezer. I've heard of this. Big enough to store it in there, to make it cold or whatever, do that. And then right before I drum, just put my entire arm inside the bag of rice

and do, like, ham rotation motions. Wow. An exercise, like warming up your hands. That's something I've never done before. You know, I'll just come on and start playing drums or whatever. But now it's like I'm starting to notice, like, certain angles of my elbows will start to hurt and that sort of thing.

Are you asking other drummers, too? Like, I just sound like... Well, I mean, I came to Sheila. I mean, no one, there's something really weird about between 45 and 55 that I feel like a lot of people are a little too ashamed. Yeah, they still want to talk about it. Yeah, like, or admit it, rather. So, you know, your ankles ever feel like, no, no, no, no, this start to swell or that's, no. There's no one really to talk to, you know, because they have the joins I thought.

Try talking to a 70-year-old. Yeah, yeah, right. But, you know, the other day I was, I was, I watched. Bernard Purdy sure it still looks good. I don't know how old he is. His whole process of playing is not big. It's very small. Well, every drum teacher ever had told me from the gate,

like don't use your arms. Use very little hand motion. But of course, you know, you want to show off and show everyone that you're like, rock it out. Right. What you cock out? Like that's what I think. And now I wish I'd listen because, you know,

even to hold the remote controls like, Oh, wow. Oh, you know. And any kind of wristwraps, anything like that don't really. I don't do risk wraps. Yo, for real. And that's the thing. I don't know if this is, I believe in CBD oil.

No, as do I. It's, you know, some people are like, you sure that's not just, you know, placebo syndrome or whatever. Everybody, everybody says, though, when it has some TAC in it, which doesn't really get you high. It doesn't at all. Right. No, but they mix. it with THC. I like the pharmaceutical

brand that my brother's using right now is a combination of CBD and THC. Same thing. Oh, is that the same thing? Well, you can get options. Right, that's what a... If you know, friend.

You've changed. I like it. You live in New York? Medical is legal. I got friends, man. Yeah. Because I've changed, like, Lai is a little... surprised and dismayed. I had a

shot last night. I had 1942 on the rocks. Yeah, he ordered a shot, Larry. Like it was, it was like, we say what now? Yeah, he had 1942 on the rock.

Yeah, there's one. Somebody's growing up. Well, you know, they took so long to give us service, bruh. That they got us

they had to get his truck. Yeah, yeah, that was. No, I do 1942 because there's no sugar in 1942. Now, you've been sticking to it, man.

You've been sticking to it, man. I've been trying, man. I'm trying to be here. I want to be Bernard Purdy. Yeah, I want you to be too. Thank you. So is there anything that you have yet to achieve? Like, do you want to do an orchestral album?

I don't know. I mean, I don't look at life that way right now. You know, I mean, I had a recent, about a year and a half ago, I almost died and it took me about six months to recover from the trauma injury and I recovered

where you didn't play at all I couldn't play well I started playing a couple of months in and then I got an infection because I was bending my leg it's a complex I don't want to talk about it right now it's a complicated thing I got gangrene

and they had to remove a part of my leg and they destroyed the nerves in my they didn't destroy they they cut the nerves in my leg so i had i had to sort of relearn some some stuff um and they didn't want i started playing about a month or two when i came home from the hospital i was in the hospital about two in some weeks and i came home and i started playing and my leg blew way up and i got some infection and i had to go on so i was told i had to be reclined for another few weeks and then I started playing again and that's it helped me and then smoked a lot of pot because I wasn't going to help you a lot I wasn't going to do the opioids yeah man don't fuck a good so in the in the in the hospital they had me high as a kite on deluded you know

and then as soon as they were letting me go home because you get sick in the hospital sometimes from hospital stuff you know they want to get you home as fast as they can so you don't get sick from infections make a long story short they cut your delorted like to nothing. They don't want to send you home with pills anymore. It's not very popular. So I said I said hold the pills I'm going to buy a bag of pot

and we proceeded to go right and buy a bag of pot and I was up most of the time with pain but I was smoking it like crazy like I was a young hippie again. I got real into it and then I looked at thinking I said we're going to buy a half a pound.

I said we're doing the old days we're going to have the freezer full How are you feeling the pot these days? Because, you know, pot didn't change since at first you started. Like, how are you feeling the... It was reaching. Wait, but first of all. I was just asking.

I didn't miss... There were a few years where I was, like, drinking stuff and doing other stuff. But then when I got back, I went right, I knew a guy. I have a friend at Humboldt County. I just got a pound of marijuana, man. Damn, you got straight to the plug. Damn. Straight to the...

Yeah. And guess what? Let's hear from me. It helped me heal. Well, I'm glad you're here, man. Me too. I still as Larry. And I'm still smoking about a bag a week, you know, so what the hell?

Yo, Steve, he's outdoing you, Steve? Yeah, anything left from the pound. That pound is way gone. The pound's gone. All right, just checking. Steve's checking right now. All right, Larry, I thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it.

Yes. Still waiting for the Don Chello Part 2, though. To Donchello. Dude, that was my album. Thank you for having me. Remember the John Donnie and everybody. Yes, of course. Thank you, Larry.

Yeah. The song that he did. Ain't no stopping us now and stuff. Blackheart, yeah. Right. But, I mean, the song that we did with, she's singing on, who did Deanna also manage?

Carol Riddick. Carol Riddick. That song, that's on his record. That was your track. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good track. That song was initially love of my life. Yeah.

That song would have been where Love My Life was when things fall apart. Right. And then... It would sort of toss the side. Well, yeah, when Common decided he liked what you know is Love My Life, then we had to give this track away. And I did not want to give up that song. I just thought of a question real quick for a go. So, Claire Fisher, I was always curious to just to hear from another string arranger,

like, what you thought about his arrangements and what made him, like, so... I always put... So whenever I give him something, my first words are. He would always say, make it like Clay. Make it like Claire. No, but you, when we did, what's the Dillah song? When we did, can't stop this. No, no.

Oh, my God. No, we did a lot of nice records. I think, I might have went and ruined and cried a little bit. No, I mean. It was hard, it was really hard to mix that song. There was one point when me and Russ started crying because, I mean, the thing is like, it keeps to remind you that Dill is no longer here. is no longer here. And then, like, I was just like, all right, I don't want to hear, I told,

I told Russ, like, I don't want to hear what Larry did because I know that when them strings get added is going to make it even sadder. So I was just like, call me 45 minutes before you want to print the final and then I'll come in, listen to it once. But that's, that's why some of those records were so great, though. Yeah. I mean, you guys weren't afraid of feelings and, you know, I mean, and they were selling then, too. You know, I mean, it was really a nice time in my life. You gave me a nice renaissance. You gave us a home.

And that's, that's, you know, once again, Bravo us. Well, ladies you gentlemen, on behalf of Laia, Fantigolo, and half a bill. And Sugar Steve, this is Questlove, Most Love Supreme. We will see you on the next go-round. Thank you. Of course, Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio.

For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversation, with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.