The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Leroy Burgess Part 1

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

For years, Questlove Supreme has wanted to speak with Leroy Burgess and now it has happened. The legendary singer, songwriter, and producer revisits his New York City upbringing. In Part 1, he explains his family ties to Thom Bell, Ricky Bell, Robert "Kool" Bell, and others, and recalls the formation of Black Ivory. In this episode he also speaks about sampling, and the different experiences he had watching his music become source material for Q-Tip, Raekwon, Grand Puba, and others.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say, you know, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I got you. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel funny, anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon. And this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green. Co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel on our podcast the away end. We'll share with you the magic of international football,

all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Questlove Supreme.

I'm giving you guys fair warning now. that if you ever complained about my inside baseball method of interviewing, then you're not going to be any happier with this particular episode. However, if you are a music head and you know your music, and you know your album credits, and you know your producers and your legends, you're going to love this episode. First of all, we were just complaining that,

you know, after doing those four shows together and back in prison again on Zoom, a bunch of prison. Prison. I'm just saying. Fonte trapped in the 60s. Yeah, I was about to say, Fonte, you're currently right now, you're back in North Carolina. Nah, this is not prison for me. I'm actually doing quite well.

Yeah, he actually, Fonte made it quite. clear that, you know, this is, he's living the dream right now. His dream. Yeah, man. But, you know, but this wasn't episode, I really did, which we could have done in person. Oh, God. If we would have done this in person, this episode would probably have been seven hours. Right.

You know what I'm saying? You're looking well and clear today, Lightier. You got to share your secret. I worked out. It took a shower. Okay. All right. Maybe I did.

Like it's fresh. You know what I'm saying? Like I just did it. Steve, Bill, are two friends in the corner, you know. Am I looking well? Yeah, man. You look awesome, Steve. I put on some brown coconut oils for you for this show.

That's what's up, man. That's what's up. Bill, how you doing? I'm great. Bill, you really missed an important episode with Angie Martinez, by the way. Oh, my God. Why? We took it back to the old school.

I feel like we should only do the in-persons and we should only do them in certain ways and I miss them already. And it's been days. Amen. All right. Also, I just like hugging Fonte. It was great, man.

I've seen people in person for- Microdose Supreme. That'll be the, the renaming of it. So I have to revitalize myself. Anyway, continue. Yeah. So ladies and gentlemen, I will say that this, I sound like a broken record.

This episode's been a long time coming. This is, I feel like the 45th president when he ever does those like meaningless, you know, you're about to see the likes of an episode that you've never seen before. This, this episode's for me. I'm being selfish here. I'm just saying it's for me. We've always wanted this gentleman, this legendary gentleman on our show. As I said, at the top of the show, sometimes, this is the joys of reading.

now I'm credits and getting to know people. And, you know, I will say that this gentleman's work is highly ubiquitous in terms of really just being an important architect in dance culture and soul culture and funk culture and disco culture, in bookie culture, in post-booky culture. A lot of the bands, a lot of underground groups that we've danced to throughout. the years throughout the decades from conversion to the fantastic Aleems to Sympho State there's log his own black ivory freak dazzle Jesus Christ y'all I can't believe it we have the one and only Leroy Burgess on Questlove Supreme yes sir long time coming how are you this evening right now today today's the day Day is the day.

Absolutely. That day is this is the time for it. And it's a pleasure and a joy to be here with you guys. This seems like it's going to be a lot of fun. I can already tell this is going to be great because you are actually prepared with your own microphone. It's clear sound. You know, it's not like. I've been in Zoom prison before.

So, you know. know, I'm used to it. So it's good to be here. Thank you for having me and thank you for your interest in me and my work is pretty cool. Thanks. You're a legend. All right, we're just going to start with the top. Always start with this question. Leroy Burgess, what was your first musical memory in life? Okay, that's easy. That's really, really easy. My first musical memory when I was but an infant was hearing my mother's voice. My mother classically trained contralto, and she used to love to sing. And when I was born, she was singing. And given some of the things that was going on in the household and during her life, she sang through those things, you know, any amount of,

the regular amount of turmoil that you have in a black family home in America, back in the 50s. Of like, you know. Yeah, exactly. And at that time, it was five of us. I was number four and the fifth was to come. But I remember her voice and I remember it being the most amazing sound and thing for me to latch on to even before I could speak. And my mom let me know that when I first started learning to speak, I was singing more than I was

speaking. So that's my first musical memory, my mother's voice. Can we say that she's responsible for your silky falsetto? Well, my mother never really got that. She didn't, I mean, it was okay when Smokey and the moments and the Delphonics would do it and Eddie Kendrickson. But me, no, she never wanted that for me. Oh, your natural voice is so beautiful. You should always sing in your natural. Wait a minute, but your falsetto is killer.

Well, those were the days as it was. But she, it took a minute to get used to that. And by the time she did, that's when I morphed into more natural singing. And I took the, I was making the transition, taking a hiatus from, Black Ivy and that whole vibe and that whole, you know, slow jam thing and moving into my dance period, my, my disco period. And I made a conscious decision that I wanted to sing in my natural voice, because that's what was happening. You know, the old James was happening and Hal Melvin and the blue notes was happening. You wasn't hearing a lot of uptempo smoky and moments, you know, they were

still in the slow jam drink. So, um, uh, I, uh, I needed to evolve and I felt an energy pulling me towards a new type of music or what was happening at that time. So, you know, I made a conscious decision to begin singing in my natural voice. And surprisingly, it's the one that is most internationally known. The world embraced it while America embraces the foresettle thing. Could you describe the household, like with your siblings and your parents, like a lot of our guests, especially kind of the Northeast-based guests? They kind of have the same narrative where, like, they might have grown up in a church household where, like, secular music's not allowed or that sort of thing. Just, like, what was the general atmosphere of your family and their musical acceptance?

Well, my family, like most African-descended families in New York City and around the country, are spiritually based. So, yeah, church was a part of what you had to do, right? What you had to learn, you had to learn to have a relationship with the Almighty and learn who he was. So that's what they drummed into your head. But what I liked about it was the music that you heard in church and the choir. and so forth and so on. So that locked me into that vibration. Initially, in the early part of my life,

we were five kids, two parents. However, my biological father, Leroy Jackson, Sr., passed away when I was six years old, and my mother remarried to Morgan Burgess shortly after that. So that is why I described myself as Leroy Burgess, as opposed to my full name as Leroy O'Neill Jackson, Jr.

But I describe myself as Leroy Jackson Burgess because I'm the sum result of both fathers. One actually conceived me and the other raised me. So I'm equal parts of their energy. We had a good house. We lived in Harlem River

projects. And I went to PS90 about four blocks away. Back in the day when you had, had to walk through four or five feet of snow. It was unheard of to close the schools on, you know, we, the snow day was, was, if it was 15 feet, that would be a snow day, all right? Anything below 15 feet, you know, you're going to get you behind the school,

get you. So we had a loving family. My grandparents were famous for, they built small church up and down the East Coast. And they were the family that, oh, no, you can't come in here with, you got to come in here with Jesus. And if you told him, you know,

it's like, but my mom was a little bit less strict. I mean, she took us through church, St. Matthews Baptist Church in our early time. So the spirit, you know, and being connected to spirituality was always a part of, you know, I connected it directly with music. They were intertwined to me. So, you know,

But as to, you know, growing up, it was a great time to grow up. That was back when, you know, urban families, black families, African and descended families. We were very tight back in the 60s and 50s and stuff. I mean, it was just like a village. We were united in a lot of ways. And we had the support of each other much more than, say, today. And that was one of the things being raised in that type of environment was just, just extremely cool.

All right. So you mentioned Harlem. So I got to ask about just your musical memories of Harlem. Do you have any memories of like Bobby Robinson's record store or any early Apollo shows that you got to witness? I didn't make it to the Apollo until I performed there

when Don't Turn Around came out in 1971. I knew it was there. I was scared of amateur night because I've seen them boopy. people. If that happened to me, it would crush me forever. And so the very first time I performed at the Apollo, it was professionally, don't turn around, had come out with Black Ivy. But I felt like I just missed the music period, you know, the Billy Holiday and Duke Ellington and Count Basie when they was all there, Louis Armstrong. I just missed it. I was born in 1953. So by the time I was about four or five or something like that and could interact with my environment, they was gone. So, but their energy, their energy was still there and the type of clubs and the people that they gravitated to, they were still around. And so there was a music that if you listen closely enough, you could hear it just buzzing in the streets in Harlem. You walk, you know, just walking, say, from 151st Street where I live to 145th Street and back,

you'd hear all kinds of music coming from all kinds of places, some of the coolest stuff, some jazzy stuff, some, of course, African influence stuff. And it would just, I would keep those things in my head and be bopping around. Like, like, I was, you know, everybody thought I was a little bit crazy. to say nothing of singing in the streets. I had no problem just bursting in the song, walking along. I had no problem. So they started to know that I was the, I was, they called me the singer.

They go to the singer. So you're telling me that at no point it, as a five, six, seven year old, are you ever visiting the Apollo theater just to watch a show or to see? After Apollo until I was 17. Yikes. I didn't get to the Apollo Theater until I was 17. Can you tell me the first record that you owned or purchased? Yeah.

Yeah, I can tell you the first one I purchased or the first one I got that made a difference. All right. The first record that had an impact on you. Okay. And then the one that you purchased with your own money. This is a little crazy. The first record that had an impact on me was a record called Tubby the two. It was a great musical piece that definitively described the interaction of the orchestra,

right? Something that I used to hear all the time on the Nackeen Coal Records and the Johnny Mathis records and so forth and so many great orchestras doing this great stuff. And I was like, oh, what part of that and so forth? So this record, tell me the tubba. It's a children's story, but within the story they explain what they're the string section does, or they demonstrate what the horn section does, and what the percussion session does and so forth. I was like, oh, wow, I get it now. I get it. So I could now listen

to records and distinguish, pull apart the strings, pull apart the horns, so forth and so on. So the very first record that influenced me profoundly was Tubby the two. So you're getting entertained, you're getting entertained, and you're getting educated at the same time of how things work. That's weird because when songs in the Key of Life came out, when people purchased the album back in 76, Stevie Wonder included like a 24-page booklet that had all these album credits in it. You know, for most black records,

you know, liner notes of that caliber really weren't, they weren't accessible. You know, so my mom would read that to me like it was a... I read every single word. I was a liner note full. all right i see back in the days um with the johnny masters albums and so forth and so on mom would put on the album or dad would put on the album i was like give me that give me the cover let me read it let me see who on the back oh this who's this person and who's this person and now you know i kept interrupting my mother and father

from listening to the music that they very much wanted to hear but i'm like oh who is this who do who is this who but i loved reading line of notes because it told me to story of the album. And, you know, it gave insight the creative process. And I was like, oh, what's an arranger? What's an arranger? What does that guy do?

And having the understanding of what the different orchestral pieces did, I got my appreciation for what the rhythm pieces did from listening to jazz, and then hearing that bass. And oh, that's an electric piano, on out of an acoustic piano. How cool is that?

This is this type of style on guitar and so forth. So I got, now I'm making the distinction between how orchestral works with rhythm and how orchestral works with jazz and how the two of them match together. So I'm putting all these, this is a little seven-year-old, six-year-old brain trying to put all these things together, right?

And when it comes, I got a lot of information from reading the line. notes, who the songwriter was. These things became important to me. Who the songwriter was? Oh, that's a great song. I hear a lot of songs. There's a lot of songs, but this one song, oh, that's great.

Who wrote that? Right? So paying that kind of attention to it gave me great insight and great appreciation to the process, you know, because I needed to understand how to do it. The album that you purchased, what was that? purchase is a funny word I'll say you might want to ask this question first record you acquired

acquired we'll say first ready obtained you're going to I mean it's a better word and I kind of snuck it and the first album that I acquired was Abby Role by the Beatles

wow I was a Beatles fan right and my mom My mother sent me to Gimbals. What did you know about Gimbals? Yeah, yeah, Gimbals, not Macy's Gimbals. Gimbles, wow.

Okay. You talk of my language. Okay. I was actually, I was going to Gimbals, and I was going to the S&H Green Stamp Redemption Center to get something from the green stamp that you get. Those green stamps? Yeah, so she, my mother had books and books and books.

She had the catalog where she got everything. So the place was up in Parkchester. I live in Harlem, so I have to take and so forth and so on. So I went up there to get her thing from there, pick up something from Gimbals, and I had to stop in the record department. Right? And I acquired the Abbey Road album,

and I bought it back, and I started playing it incessantly. I played everything incessantly, really, but I started playing it incessantly. and nobody really asked me, where did that album come on? Where did you get that? But, you know,

that was the first album I acquired. Now, the first album I started getting into were way before that because my mother was a member of, check this out, the Columbia record. Wait, that was out in the 60s? Yeah, yeah.

11 for a dollar. Like, what was it back in the day? 12 records for our, penny. Yes, wow. As long as you, you know,

you buy it. So my mom used to, she knew I love music and she, like I said, she's a singer. So she was like, you know, when I was good,

you know, and I had been, you know, not misbehaving. She would say, okay, well, you can buy them,

you can pick out one record of the 12 or you can pick out two records of the 12. So I used to get temptations, Stevie Wonder, the Supremes,

you know, You know, Jerry Butler was one of my favorite albums, the Ice Man Coming, and I used to listen to those joints. So those were the first things that I started listening to in order to discover who my musical being was. Wow. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the Fourth.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that. don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice Podcast, to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that, any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodham. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and The Big Money Players Network, It's Will Farrell My dad gave me the best advice ever I went and had lunch with him one day

And I was like And dad I think I want to really give this a shot I don't know what that means But I just know the groundlings I'm working my way up through And I know it's a place that come Look for up and coming talent He said if it was based solely on talent

I wouldn't worry about you Which is really sweet Yeah He goes but there's so much luck involved And he's like Just give it a shot He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids.

My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over. 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, its heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, you mentioned something earlier, and I was going to let it slide, but I got to know. Because the thing is, is that when you mention the S and H green stamps, probably the only memory that I have of my mother's, my grandmother or my mother's side is her sitting at our table with, like, thousands and thousands and thousands of those green. What were those green stamps? Like next to those green stamps and those like Swedish cookies, you know, the butter cookie designs that eventually become their storing spot for sewing. The Danish cookies that after you finish, they become like the sewing kit, the sewing kit.

Yeah, that's the woman's crown royal bag. Yeah. What were those, what were those S&H stamps for? Here's what? up. Basically, you go to the supermarket like anybody else, right? You buy X amount of groceries, right? For the money that you spent for those groceries, you would get X amount of green stamps. And they would give you books that you could lick the stamps on, stick them on the page, so forth and so on. When you get your books filled up, right, and, you know, you had X amount of books.

Well, this vacuum cleaner costs five books. And this thing called Rewards. They're a rewards program, yeah. And if she just had to get up there to the S&H Redemption Center and pick up with some, my mom got all these nice little, because we went, every time she went food shopping for the kids,

she'd have like a hundred, you know, and so she, you know, I was the designee in the family to go up there and pick up the S&H green stamp. merchandise. I was the counter. I would have to count with my she I learned how to count oh, okay. I never knew what they were for. I was like, I mean, that's probably like they were free stuff stuff and stuff when it was good stuff when it was really, really free. Right. They didn't the companies that supported or that donated their products to the S&H factory, you know,

for them to give away. They were advertising for them. and promotion for them. So, but you know, you can get, I'm carpet and, you know, stuff. The game. Yeah. And I realized that half the items in my house must have came from S&H Greens games. So, you know, I told, like, some of my friends and luminaries and music heads that you were coming on the show. I have to say, you're probably the most connected human being, I know, because the first response that every music.

head tells me when I'm like, yo, we're about to get him on the show. They tell me like, yo, you know he's related to Tom Bell, right? Yo, you know he's related to Archie Bell, right? Yo, you know he's related to Ronald and Rob. How many? The Bells. It's the Bells, huh? So you're trying to tell me that Tom and Robert and Ronald of Cooling Gang and Al Bell of Stacks and Archie Bell of it. You're all related? Yes. Wow. How come no one has Yeah, I don't know. Listen, we don't. Yes, you do.

No, well, here's the story with that. Patty LaBelle? That's a stretch. Come on. Alexander Ramba? No, no. Right. I thought Patty was the stress, but.

Right, right, right. Ricky Bell? Ricky Bell. Yes. Okay. We are all descendants of a. an enslaved individual named Prince Bell from the 1820s and 18, you know, 1860s, 70s or something like that. Prince Bell had a total of three wives.

With each of his wedding, wedding unions, he made a bunch of kids, right? Those kids became my grandparents and my mom and my dad. And the same is true for Tom Bell. Or the Bell brothers from Cooner Gang, Jerry Bell from the Dad's Band. Wow. She Bell, Al Bell, Ricky Bell from Bell Bid DeVoe. I was only playing. That's real?

Yeah. God damn. Outside of the Bell family, or Judge Mathis, Greg Mathis is a cousin and the actor Richard Browntree, is a, all of us are descendants of Prince Bell. The Bells. I also heard Betty Wright as well. Betty Wright. I met Betty Wright.

Who are you leaving out? Are we related to Lee World Burgess? Right, right. Yes, we are. Well, I believe that I believe that I'm related to everybody in the world. I mean, well, I see why. That's crazy. Yeah, so.

Shout out to Fire Burgess, who also. I mean, you know Fire, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, player, absolutely. Yeah, Fire. Absolutely. Fire Burgess, who. definitely want this episode to happen. While you are connected to everyone.

Right. So when I think about where, you know, was I predestined to enter the music industry, I'm kind of leaning towards feeling like that's because there's so many luminaries in my family that are not just in entertainment, but in music specifically, who have made a definitive mark on the industry as a whole. So I'm just bringing up to rear. Thomas Bell thing might be real, too. I'm just saying. It was predetermined.

Like, your future was, everyone in your family has singing talent and has pushed the envelope. That's crazy. Can I just ask who found who first? Like, when did y'all know that this was the story behind your family? Yeah.

Combell, back in my, when I was very, very, very young. Alexander Graham Ben, that's what I mentioned. Four, five, and six and stuff like that. He used to come to the family picnics down that we used to have, uh, down in Jamesburg, New Jersey. We still have them in the same place every year. Um, he used to come and I used to follow him around like a little public dog, right? Because he was always talking music. That's that was then he stopped coming, right? Fast forward to about 19, somewhere in the 1990s, the Bell, the South Jersey Bell picnic couldn't happen. So the North Jersey Bell, the Bell Aiken's picnic happened. And my mother traveled to that because I was on the road, right?

That's where my mother met Cool, and Robert and Ronald and all of, and Kevin's mother. And she was, my son seeing the music. Oh, too, my, my son. Who's your son? Black Ivy. Who's your son? Koon again?

Oh, what a little to do? Right? So. Wow. So that's how they, and then, a wonderful cousin of mine that I didn't know, I met her on Facebook, her name is Geneva Norman. Right?

And she asked if she was a cousin, and she relayed, and then she presented. me with a document, the Bell family history going all the way back to Prince Bell, right? And it contained every single, everybody in the whole family, including all my brothers, all my siblings, all my cousins, all, you know, it was just really a definitive document, 16-page document that told me who everybody was and where everybody was and so forth and so on. So as I proceeded through life after finding that out, the last one that I met officially was Betty.

When she was called to her ascension, I met her when the National R&B Music Society was giving her a Lifetime Achievement Award. And I was, you know, I was present at that awards presentation and I walked over to her after she got the award and I said, congratulations, Ms. Wright. By the way, I'm a descendant of Prince Bell. And she jumped up and said, cousin and hugged me. And so, you know, things like that. That's been my life to, to, to,

with Jerry Bell from Dazbrand and formerly of new birth. He was the lead thing of New Birth. Yes. That's how we performed with New Birth. And I believe didn't, didn't he eventually join Cool in the Gang in 87 when J. J.T. left. Jerry Bell is the one that's saying letter web. Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, yes. Yes, he. Oh, that explains it. That explains it. That is what, yo, because you don't understand when they made. an album 1987 or 88. Okay. And, you know,

JT had left the group. Okay. And they did an appearance on Soul Train. And Don was trying to put two and two together. Like, wait, where I know you from? Where are I know you from? He said, oh, man, Dasband. And that is... Wow. Okay. They're cousins. Yeah. That is crazy.

Okay. pushing the story long because I know that the group started when you were young and your teens and whatnot. How did you meet with Stuart and Russell, your bandmates in Black Ivory? Stuart Bascum

and Russell, Russell Patterson. We're talking about in 1968 and that's when your family mates, I was 14. That's the year that your mom said, no, you're going to go out and get the summer job and start making your own money so you can get to

you know, so I got a summer job. And I worked at St. Charles Bar-Mail as a youth counselor for I was a 14-year-old taking care of eight-year-olds, you know, that kind of thing. Right. I'm a camp. You're the oldest sibling? Oh, no, no, no, no. My eldest sibling is my sister Cheryl. He's 73.

And I'm in August. Great for 70, bro. So I met while I was on, you know, what we were. having lunch and shooting bricks. You know what I mean? But we had a little transit to radio playing. And here I go again by Smokey Robinson and the Miracles came on. And one of my co-counselors, Larry Newkirk, he started singing along with it.

And somewhere halfway between the song, I started singing along with him. And at some point, he stopped, right? and just let me continue singing. And, you know, I closed my eyes and I just continued singing the song. And then when I finally opened my eyes, all these people had gathered around me, right? So Larry said, hey, you got a beautiful voice.

I said, you too. And he was like, well, I got a group. You interested in joining the group? I said, sure. So I went to his house, Espinard Gardens, from 47th and between 7th and Lennox. and met the rest of his group. The Mellow Souls was the name of the group.

About a week later, the fifth member of the Mellow Souls joined Larry Newkirch group. So there were five of us, right? And we started rehearsing, started learning songs, Delphonic this, moments that main ingredient, just started practicing records, right?

and Larry's sister, Gail Newkirk, she was friends with, or they was, you know, boyfriend and girlfriend with Patrick Adams. Right. To get Patrick to come. And so we were all ready to meet Patrick, and we met over Larry's house and so forth and so on. Patrick called to say he could not come, right?

During the phone call, I was saying, can you remember by the delphonic's right in the background I was in the other room um but Patrick heard it and he asked Larry who is that singing and Larry's like that's our lead singer and so Patrick called me to the phone asked me about you know blah blah where'd you learn a sing and what you do to do and I can't make it today but can you meet me next week and so that a week later we arranged the meeting with Patrick Adams and He was enamored with the group, but he couldn't work with five people. So the first one to leave the group was Michael Harris in educational pursuits, pursuing his further education.

So that made it a quartet, myself, Vito Ramirez, Stuart Baskom, and Larry Newkirk. And we began being groomed and developed by Patrick Adams. right finally they got us um here's here's an amazing coincidence all right Patrick became friends with Gene Red who was the manager of Cooner the Game yeah right now when cool in the game first came out they were an all instrumental band there was no vocals or anything they just came out and jammed all these sole instrumentals that was dope right and you know people bought them and dance to him but and they were quite popular doing quite well. So Patrick suggested to Gene or vice versa that

why don't you let my group premiere themselves, you know, by singing a couple of songs, being backed by Kuna Gang. And they said yes. They said yes. So we were given two songs, love on the two-way street and everybody is a star, right? That Koon and Gang learned and learned to play behind us to meet the group. Right. Now, this is before we had any idea, me and the Bell brothers, that we were related. I just stayed with Bells,

and I knew that I was the son of a Bell, right? But, um, uh, so that is how Black Ivy, after a minute, Larry Newkirk and Vito Ramirez, left to pursue their further education and so forth and so on, leaving just me and Stuart. But Larry's brother, Todd Newkuk,

was developing a group to follow behind us, shades of mellow soul. In that group, the best thing was Russell Patterson. Okay. So we went, it was just me and Stuart, we went to Russell and we said, hey, would you be interested in being a part of this, nonsense going on over here.

You could just steal somebody from their group? Yeah, basically. Basically, we basically stole Russell. That group dissolved. And that's when Stuart and Patrick got on the phone with each other

and changed the name. Mellow Souls is like hokey as hell. Like, so you know, some Mellow Souls. Who doesn't do that? So Patrick and Stewart got on the phone and they came up with ivory and then black ivory, you know, kind of described us because Russell and I were this

complexion and Stewart was light, you know, his light skin brother. So that puts you in mind of the piano and piano keys and all of that. And so black ivory. That's why y'all named yourselves Black Ivory. Wow. That's the best colorism story I've heard. Actually, speaking of which, I didn't even plan this moment but right at this moment I'm watching you guys on Soul Street. Yo, your Afro

is highly, highly impressive. Wow. Oh, my God. First of all, I got I got to say, you are the only person with that footage in the world.

I realize it. I'm, we have, I can't, I explain to you why I have this footage, but you guys can take a wild guess why I have this footage, but. I've been looking, I've been looking for that footage to see that show, that one performance, no, um, what goes around comes around. Yeah, obviously I'm working on a project and, you know, I keep the show on, even if I weren't working on it, I'd be watching all 1100 episodes of Soul Trick. Like, it, this just always stays on.

no matter what. It's like my aquarium. You don't know how crucial we have been looking for that footage for over 40 years. Oh, right? For over 40 years. The Soul Train compilation came out and it is one episode that's missing.

Black Ivy and Hugh Massa... Hugh Massacela. Wow. And from Chicago, Don's homeboy. What's his name? You have the interview where Don Connoon, Don Canelius.

I got it. Not to dance all over my stage. And I said, well, I couldn't help it. The music. Oh, my God. I got you, bro. Back over there. I want you to walk back over there.

Let me see. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't. don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield.

And in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a girl. a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and The Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault and Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over. 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can you basically talk about Patrick Adams, like, as a record collector and especially with Perception Records?

You know, I always knew it as a jazz label. Like, I know, like, some of the funky or dizzy Gillespie stuff and, you know, well, also Fatback, but like James Moody, like a lot of jazz artists. Like, wasn't Perception primarily a jazz label? It was entirely a jazz label. And they were breaking into. R&B and other marketplaces, which is why they found a place for Patrick because he was the voice of Harlem coming from the R&B side of things.

And that's why he ended up being the A&R director. But yeah, when we went to the label, it had Johnny Hartman was one of the artists on. Oh, right, yeah. Johnny Hartman, it was, Dizzy Gillespie. He was on the label. But they had, they had, they had, They hadn't really broken out the today label. We were the ones to really break that label open today.

Okay. Yeah. Patrick was, he became my absolute mentor and the guy who allowed me and supported me in getting my focus together to become whatever I would become in the industry. So basically you're watching him in the studio and this is how you're getting your education? and everything I could steal and everything I could steal. Every little part.

And I was like, how did you do that? And how did you? And he loved working with me because he loved the ideas that I can come up with on my own. You and I was my first composition, commercial composition. Wow.

I wrote that when I was 16 years old. And Stewart came in and did the lyrics to it. Patrick loved it because I didn't even know that I was using two, timing and six four timing and so I was just like playing something that I like but he was like oh that's so great and we're going to do a record and then we did this seven-minute epic yes of of of you and I that you and I right that the thing for everybody to have but so Patrick is is entirely responsible for for introducing me and bringing me into the music industry.

I can say that unequivocally. There's no one more. Was Patrick, was he a white guy, black guy? I've never seen pictures of him. He's black. Oh, okay. Word up. All right. For our listeners out there that are hip-hop heads,

you and I is the sample to Q-Tips. Getting up, right? Yeah. Getting up. Yeah. Was that shocking for you to hear it have, someone of a resurrection of sorts. Q-Tip is just a really cool brother.

He's just straight up, above board. All right. And what happened was I was working for working at Manning's music on 48th Street for a little while. You know, it begins me. And Q-Tip actually came in and sort me out, right, and said, I want to, I'm thinking about using you and I for,

you know, what for this new song. And I want to do it the right way. So I knew, I found out that you were working here, right? You put me on to your publishers so that we can work out of a licensing deal. Right. And I always respected him for doing that because there's so many underhanded ways you can, you know, you decided to have the integrity to come straight at it and to do the right thing. and I always respected Kamau for that.

But yeah, he actually did the right thing by us. So by putting two together, can I assume that you guys' decision to record, don't turn around in Philadelphia at Sigma Sound, had to do with your cousin, Tom Bell, also working out of there? First of all, Patrick and Tom Bell had a rivalry to, you know, it was New York versus Philly. Tom Bell was one of the leading catalysts of the Philadelphia Sound.

They became friends, so forth and so on. They knew each other professionally. And Patrick was always trying to create great records and great songs like Don't Turn Around. When he became the vice president of the A&R at Perception Today, they gave him the budget to go to Philly and use, I think we used, Half of MSSB. Yeah, Norman Harris and Vince Montana, like all the cats. Right, and the dudes.

The other half of the band, of the rhythm band, was Willie Feaster and the Mighty Magnificence. Right. Which was the all-platinum Stang Records. Yes, the Sylvia Robinson crew. Right, yeah. I was going to ask, how did you manage, because when I read the album credits, I'm like, wait a minute,

is this all just a tri-state thing or like, were, because I think for a lot of us, when we think of the Philly sound, we literally think that everything is going through Gamble and Huff. And it really wasn't until one day Joe Tarsi had told me like, no. Like, you know, there's a period where

even the MFSB cats broke away from Gamble and Huff assessment musicians and decided to produce themselves. But since they recorded it Sigma, you know, it all sounded the same because of the, of, you know, the equipment they used and... And the style, yeah, just the style of the music there.

They all... Right. So people didn't feel a certain way. Like, I would think that, like, Gamble and Huffle would feel a certain way if, you know, Dexter Wanzel or... Or Vince or whoever is, like, at the helm, or even your cousin, like, it all sounds the same musicians, the same engineering, the same studio, the same instruments. So I'm just thinking like this is all going through Gamble and Huff. But Katz didn't feel a certain way about like...

Well, here's my best answer to that. It began as a partnership, Gamble, Huff, and Bell. All right, the three of them were together. That's where you get Mighty Three music and so forth. I did, okay. I didn't realize that Bell was like a part of there. I just thought he was like, I used the studio as well. I didn't realize that now see where Mighty 3 came from.

An integral part of the gamble, when they all was in their 20s and stuff like that, they were together, right? The Ice Man comes with an album produced by Gambling Huff and Bell. Okay. One of my favorite songs, Are You Happy? Completely arranged by Bobby Martin and Tom Bell. All right.

So they were always connected. And then as music evolved, they became Kenny and Leon and then Tom Bell went off and did his Delphonic's thing, while Kenny and Leon did the intruders and, you know, that became the early OJs and so forth and so on. So, and next thing you know, Tom Bell is doing the spinners and, you know, that whole, that whole sphere. But yes, indeed, every time they went into the studio, whether it was gambling hub or Tom Bell, They used the same musician. Norman Harris, Earl Young on drums all the time, Vince Montana.

They were called these same cats. And they all had this like style of composition, right, whereas gambling, the songs that they wrote were similar. They came from the kind of the same place. Right. And then using the same musicians to realize these songs creates that specific sound. the Philly Sound, right, which can come from either gambling up or Tom Bell and later on Dexter Wanzell, Batman Whitehead, so forth and so on the various offshoots, Norman Havis, Baker, Havis Young, so forth and so on, and the Vince Montana Camp. They were all united in Sigma Sound Studios and they would call each other up for the various sessions.

So that's why all the records started sounding like each other. Thank you for finally said that. I just never knew. Right. And talk to all of them. Sorry, I'm sorry for I take a good. Now, I was going to ask before we got off the first album, I keep asking questions.

Which is Sam, yeah, Wu-Tang. How did it feel when you heard that, you know, being used in that way for criminology? Yeah. Same story as Kamau. Yeah, I don't think so. Or no. Or no.

Or no. I'm like, I don't think this is going to be the same. Because I can't wait to get to over like a fat rat. Because I get the feeling that this is all like after the fat. Yeah. I didn't know about criminology until way after it came out and was successful. Right. And my first response was the old R&B head, right?

Oh, my God. This rap is taken over. Right. I don't know. What are they saying to the kids? And so I went to Mr. T on every. But then it was doing so well, and then it went gold. And then it went flat.

Chitching. Well, I might be okay with this. I might just be okay. And I actually am looking at the platinum plaque right there. I love it. Built only for Cuban links. Yeah, I was going to say for a lot of us, I mean, yeah, my dad had your records. But it is those records that made us really, truly like, revisit those records and

look down the credits and then just really get lost in your history. I know in the beginning it's a little jarring because you're like, oh, my work's being torn apart or whatever, but, you know, if there ever was an album for you to be associated with, that was the record. That started a trend, a trend which had begun earlier by, I think it was, remember Strictly Business, that movie?

The movie is Yeah. Hallie Barry. Grand Puba, he took Fat Rat. He used over like a fat vat. Yeah. Like, I was not cool with him until I saw the first check. And then I realized.

Yeah. I was very cool with it. Hey, everybody. What's up? This is Fonte from Team Supreme. This interview was so good. So nice. We had to do it twice.

We put it up, put it, broke it up in the two parts. Honestly, this was one of my favorite interviews this season. I wanted to talk to Leroy for a long time, and he did not disappoint. So please check back in as Leroy tells us more about his life and career. Peace y'all. West Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. For more podcasts from IHart Radio, visit the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far.

But I'm John Green, co-host of the podcast The Away End with my old friend Daniel on our podcast, The Away End. we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.