The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Lin-Manuel Miranda

Episode Date: October 28, 2020

Yes he's won a Pulitzer, received a MacArthur "Genius" grant, a Kennedy Center Honor, some Tonys and a host of other awards. However, Lin Manuel Miranda is Questlove Supreme family. Listen to this episode to hear the hilarious and motivating tales of Lin and our UnPaid Bill (aka Bill Sherman) as they navigated their stage dreams through Wesleyan University and transformed them into the award winning In The Heights and Hamilton and even got to collaborate with the leader of their favorite hip hop band! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for both. black people. Listen to look back at it on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that

not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Wait a minute.

Why does Lynn and Bill have the same interior? Because we're the same person. Oh, my gosh. Are y'all the same person? Our guest today, ladies and gentlemen, oh, actually, wait, let me let you know where you are. My name is Questlove, and this is another episode of Questlove Supreme. We're here with Team Supreme.

Sugar Steve, hello. Yo, how are you? I'm great. Fontegalo. What up, what up? And we have Laia. Bill here, yes, yes. And we have unpaid bill, new bill.

Bill, bills. Bill's, bills. 2.0. Yeah, Bill 2.0. I'll say that our guests, absolutely, well, I always say that our guest needs no introduction, but I guess our guest does introduce. Because he's literally done everything except for balance the budget. He saves us from COVID.

He's Warner Pulitzer, a MacArthur, a Garthor Genius Grant, a Kennedy's Center honor. I thought you had to be like at least 300 years old to get a Kennedy's I didn't realize that one could be 19 and win a Kennedy Center honor. He's won a lot of everything you just said. He won a lot of Grammys. He has an Emmy and he might have a Tony or two. I don't know. Be it $40,000 on Stubhub or on Disney Plus, you literally have zero excuse.

If you're not seeing our guests, his creation, one of the big. global phenomenons and entertainment, probably short of thriller. See, this is what happens when I don't have three by five cards. No, literally, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Questlove Supreme, the creator of in the Heights of Hamilton. Let's not forget Fossi Vernon, actor, playwright, MC, producer. What else are you? Your director, your father, your son.

Longtime fan, first time caller, thrilled to be. here. Washington Heights own Lynn Manwell Miranda. Wait, Lynn. What's up, everybody? All right, so check it. All right, because, you know, like if I really know a guest, I won't prep notes. I'll just go off the top.

However, I'm Googling you. And the questions surrounding your name, this is hilarious to me. Because under your name comes these following questions. did Burr regret killing Hamilton Why do people like Hamilton so much Why is Hamilton so expensive How old should one be to go see Hamilton What's the most famous Broadway show

What is Will Smith's net worth I don't know where that came from That came out of nowhere I ask that every day Who's Liminwell's Miranda's best friend Who is the highest note And to be unknown

and who is a mortal technique. So basically you have, you have a, oh, wow. That runs a gamut pretty good. Yeah, you're, yeah. You literally run the whole spectrum of hip hop and, and history. And one, and ten questions, one fell swoop. I wish it was that for, for me. This, this is taking a long time.

Do you remember your, the pilot episode, Bill? Yes. that you came to? And you just casually flogged, you know, we get them no problem. And it's like four and a half years later. Well,

if anyone's got a busier schedule than me, it's you. And getting those to line up is like the death star window of just like, okay, these 45 minutes, here we go. Dude, I, no,

trust me, I know, I do not take for granted. I remember asking you about. You have no spare hour to even talk to us. I, I, I, wait a minute, but it's funny. I remember you had agreed to DJ, I think our opening night party, and I saw you a few days before.

And I said, hey, thanks again for doing that. And you're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, that sounds right. And I said, you're DJing the opening night party. And he went, I forgot. Let me show you something about my life. And you showed me your schedule. And you like literally opened your phone.

And it was more colors than the rainbow in terms of like, hour to hour what you were doing. And Hamilton hadn't really happened yet. Hamilton hadn't opened yet. And I was like, how can one person be, one human do this much? And it was like a glimpse of, it was a glimpse of my future. I'm going to be busy. That's before I met Grace Harry, who insisted, if we have a future, you're going to drop 10 jobs.

Thank you, Grace. Yeah. Drop it. Crazy. Except the quest left to pre. The law down. She'll leave the law down. Wait, speaking of which,

Lynn and Bill, do you know, do you truly know that my involvement with this was an accident to show you how aloof I am about my schedule? You're involved with what? Temple. Do you know how aloof and how like Mr. McGoo accidental tourist it was?

All right. Let me walk you through it real quick. You meant to go see. a show at Joe's Pub and you wandered into our show. Is that what you're telling me? Basically, yes. No, I'm serious. When John Ridley had won for 12 years of slave, you know, John Ridley and had wrote 12

years of slave and what's his name famously directed it? Steve McQueen. Steve McQueen. Right. So when Ridley had written 12 years of slave. in about maybe six months after he won his Oscar, he had a meeting with us about working on a project. So in true mere fashion, arriving, and Steve can attest to this,

I came like to the meeting six minutes late. Okay, really, 16 minutes late. And what I didn't realize was that he was giving us homework to do. and part of that homework was look research these plays that I think that are cutting edge and you know like going to change the shift and he had five plays that he wanted us to see and homework number one was seeing an unknown Hamilton at the public theater so me not me not putting two two together I didn't realize because when you started talking to me backstage you had already gone into pitch mode

about joining being down. And in my head, I'm like, yeah, I talked to John earlier. Yeah, I'm down. I didn't realize that at that point, I talked myself into a second production. And it became a who's on first situation

for about two weeks with the Roots organization until Sean and Tarek were like, no, Amir. What we're doing with John Ridley is something different. Hamilton's a whole other animal. I've never met John Ridley in my life. Now I know this. That explains something.

But literally the whole time backstage, I was just like saying yes to everything and not just literally having zero clue that you guys weren't associated with Ridley. I thought Ridley was just sending us there as a part of this project he was with. And it wasn't until later that I remember. I obviously knew nothing about that since I've never met that man.

Sorry to this man. Sorry to this man. But for me, you coming to the show was like waiting for guffman. It was like Westlove is finally coming to the show. Right. I had been manifesting the roots coming to our show while I was writing the show. We had two jokes. One was about the roots. The one was most deaf's going to be here. Like, is most deaf going to be in the show? That was always like the biggest joke. That's what I'm saying. The way you were talking was so like, Jimmy level excitement. No, it was just so exciting. And in my head, I'm like, you guys had me at a low. Like, are, you know, like, you people already talked to me at 9 a.m. yesterday morning. Like, I'm, I'm aboard. Like, I didn't realize. Well, that's also why it's like Guffman, because, you know, in the movie, that guy's not Guffman who shows up.

And they're like, we're going to Broadway. So I was all excited because we're like, Quest loves in. But he thinks he has said yes to a totally different thing that I know nothing about. Yeah, man. I just, I said, I don't know. Musical theater, then. And Quest loves the Guffman. Sometimes you got to say yes to everything.

What do you, like now, what are you, what are you, What's your daily routine? Are you still able to stay creative despite what we're in? Or are you also having a just stop moment? I had like a solid month and a half, two months where I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. I was about to start directing my first movie. We'd shot eight days of footage when Netflix,

I'm directing this musical for Netflix. And they shut us down, which was both a bummer and a huge relief because we are already social distancing on set. We were already asking ourselves hard questions of like, how do you do a musical where you sing to each other and not spit on each other? And so when Netflix said, we're shutting me on everything, it was like, good. Someone higher up than me has answered it for us. But you know the momentum that goes into making a movie. It's your whole life. You spend every waking hour and like it's go time.

And then that just stopped. So when did they shut y'all down? How far are we all around what time was this? This was like the day March 9th. It was like March. Yeah, it was March 8th. And I, we were doing a night shoot. So we, they shut us down.

They told us this is going to be your last night filming at 9 p.m. And we still had like three shots left to go. So for a while it was just me and the producers and like our happy crew and actors with job. And like that moment like, you know, where you can't tell anyone yet. And we, you know, we waited until the end of the night to tell everyone. Luckily it was before a weekend. So everyone was going home for the weekend anyway. And then, you know, a lot of it was just the new, what's the new normal?

Like what's the procedure to leave the house? What is school? We'd already stopped sending my kid to school just on our own. gut shit, like, of just like... I did the same thing, too. I stopped sending my kid, I think, like a couple days before they finally called it. It was like, maybe a little like a week or something before they finally... Yeah, it was a week for me too.

And so, you know, that first month was just, what are we doing? I'm so grateful my wife was so ahead of it. My wife was a scientist. So, like, in January, she was like, this is coming here and we have to take it seriously. Wow. I'm in pre-production on a movie. Like, I agree with you. but I also can't stop doing what I'm doing.

It's not my money. In your mind, did you think that this is just going to be like maybe a six-week thing, maybe a two-month thing? I had to comment in May, June. When my wife explained the science of it to me of like, this two-week break is bullshit because it doesn't even show up in people, and that's why it's spreading so fast. Like, healthy people spread this and then find out they're sick.

after they've already exposed, however many people they've been in contact with. And so, like, she was like, this is not going to be two weeks. She just saw, she saw the whole thing early. His wife, for those who don't know, is the most beautiful person ever to attend MIT. Oh, well, okay. So I have a lot. So then. Wait, she down with the crew, too?

What is that mean? That's a weird. Like, it's, you just made it weird by saying that like, you. No, no, no, no. I mean, was she in the college squad? Was she in the... No, because we didn't go to MIT, but Lynn can tell us to me.

They're in high school. No, so... Oh, you guys were smart enough right? I know. Somehow I can't imagine myself at MIT. I can barely say it, right? That is a YouTube series that we need. On Bigel and MIT,

animatics immediately, please. Yeah. But Lynn, did she get some insight too as well as, because now that we're in it, and that was where her insight before, I'm sure she got some things to tell you now as you are approaching production of things. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, she, you know, we are, we start filming again in a week. And it's, it is, we're doing everything we can to be safe. And we've learned from the movies that have already gone into production. The actors are. Yeah. The actors are in their own bubble and in their own quarantine. There's the red zone and the yellow zone and the green zone. I basically see my kids on the weekend.

They get tested before they can see me again. Like, I can't even break that for just hanging out with my kid. Like, we're taking it as seriously as possible because it's life and death. We, you know, as we all know. And so, so yeah, but my wife saw it early. And so by the time I kind of, they shut down production on the movie and I looked up, Vanessa was like, well, here's everything that's going on. She had already kind of figured out how to get in and have that.

house, like all of the stuff that is normal to us now, and we were still learning. She was on top of that. So I'm grateful to her for that. So anyway, a month and a half of nothing. And then I basically pivoted to the writing projects that I wasn't going to be touching for a year because I was working on this movie. I'm writing two scores for two different animated movies, one for Disney and one for Sony animation. And so I basically just, that's been keeping me busy during the pandemic. It's just like, all right. Like go back to writing, back to your keyboard. Wait, this just hit me.

I really want to start from the very beginning. Yes, please. There's another beginning I want to start with. Lynn, he tells three things about unpaid bill that you don't know. Yes. This is really the unpaid bill episode. We're just using Limbaugh-Mirondwell Miranda for this. I knew that's how I end up here and I'm happy to be of service.

First of all, my entire career and Bill's entire career is as the result of an accident and an infidelity. Do we not tell that story, Bill? Yes. I mean, we're here. We won't use names. We won't. This is your episode, not mine. It's your episode, Bill.

We already had mine, and it was tragically great. So there you go. So my college girlfriend produced a musical at the school theater at Wesleyan. And she produced once on this island. And it had a music director and Bill was the sax player in the pit. However, the music director was dating the director of the show. And he cheated on her. She walked in on him cheating.

and I mean this is college theater guys and she was like you're fired guy playing saxophone you're the music director now and so Bill became the music director of this and then like proceeded to kill it like I remember going to see the show being like why does this college show sound so good

and was just like amazed at how professional and great the band sounded and so and they were like that's Bill Sherman he became the band conductor after you fired fucking around. And so...

I then rehired to play the bass because we didn't have a bass player. There was no of the bass player. So I in fact, re-hired and he was in the band. Yeah. So...

Wait. Awkward. Bill, you pay the saxophone. So, yeah. You guys don't know he plays the saxophone. Oh, that didn't make so much sense. We did not know this. We did not know this. So my first was...

Bill was a sax player and Bill had an African high life band in college called Professor Neon. An African high life band. So you white Falaw, Bill? He's white Philo. I, I, I, I, I, I, look at this. You have selective remembering. So, like, I majored in West African music. I've just, I know that deep into it, brus.

So I played the saxophone. And I was really big into Fela, but I wasn't doing like, you made it like, you just took a trip to Africa at like a vacation. Oh, yeah. No, I didn't know this. You guys are talking to Phila Kootstein. What?

New name alert. New name. Fela. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it.

Oh, my God. That's your new name. Oh, thank you. Oh, man. If I had known we were going to go this deep, I would have brought cuts. The way. I really would like to hear some of your West African music bill.

Professor Leon was a dope band. It was like 15 white guys played West African music. Wasn't that you couldn't find no black people or? No, see, here's the thing. If you really want to get into it. So Wesley didn't want to play West African music. That's true. Fair.

No, no, it's fair. But also, like Wesleyan world music is, I mean, the capital of white guys with dreadlocks. Okay. I didn't have dry lot. I smoked a lot of weed. My boy. Close to up.

But what was interesting about Wesleyan is that it was billed as like diversity university as it were. But it was so segregated that it was affable. So like Lynn lived in Latin guy house. Like I saw the al-visu Campos. Yeah. And then and then all of the black folk lived in Malcolm X house. Like I'm not even making this up. They were across the street.

We saw that all the time. We wait to that from across the street And a house party Boy from young black teenagers Cameron Yeah the white camera too House party too The movie PCU was based on Wesley

And the writers of that movie went to West Like every Like nationality and affinity group Had its house Ah I was part of the white voice stoner world music crew Yeah

Yeah and I lived in La Casa Yeah And Lynn was like the Latin guy And guess what? He continues to do that guy today. Is this the Santi Gold, Angela Yee era of Westland, but or afterwards? I think she's a little younger than us. MGMT was...

What year were you guys? What was your class? We're class in 2002. MGMT was like the year after us. Yeah. They were like maybe three years before you guys. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, Santa Gold was ahead of us. We were out of the Limerda-Rera if you didn't know that. What? We were part of what is now referred to as the Lynn Manuel Miranda era. Of course. I see. Like, that's, if you ask anybody, that's those years. What's funny is, I mean, one of the lessons that I got out of Wesleyan was when I did the first version of In the Heights at Wesleyan, it was an 80-minute show.

And to get Latinos in a show, I had to go beyond the, like, six white theater majors that were theater majors. So I had Ralphie from Ebony Singers in the cast. The result of me casting the net across campus instead of just people who auditioned for musicals was that we were a huge hit show because everyone had a friend in the show because that's how you get people to your show when you're in college.

How did you appeal to them, Lynn? How did you even? Oh, I fly it everywhere and I was in the gospel choir and I fly it in the gospel choir. I just went beyond like the theater board call sheet. Right. Lynn posed for art classes as the naked guy.

No. Oh, come on. We're going there. All right. All right. Let's go. Yes. At the time,

Lynn's girlfriend started, Lynn's girlfriend started in the Heights and she was Filipino. And she remains Filipino to this day, but she was like, she was the Filipino girl who played like the Latin girl from fucking Washington Heights, which was hilarious, but great casting. I didn't succeed in finding Latinos.

Everybody was there. I cast the net as winded as I could. And at Wesleyan, Filipino is close enough. Close enough. Is this on tape? Right, that part. Is there a version of this on tape? Yeah, you'll never see it.

You'll never see it. And there's a record, too. I put the opening number. I actually did put the opening number on YouTube. You can see the opening number. You can see a little Filipino alien. But just for the record, I was not part of it at that moment. So don't think I'm going to.

minute you went so fast bill you sped past first of all posing for drawing one class was the highest paying job on campus how much is that learn 14 dollars an hour hey that's paid yeah you never told me that yeah so i was like it's not photography it's just people's bad drawings of me naked i can live with that yeah on sale of eBay now for like all kinds of cash you could bet on that's the way You start with quick poses, right? So the first 10 minutes of class, it's like, ah, one minute, ah, one minute, and one minute. And then you have the long poses where it's 10 minutes

where they're going to kind of bring out the colors and the chargoles. And those you have to choose very carefully, because if you try to be cute, like, you're holding that shit for 15 minutes. You got a whole net shit for 50 minutes. So there's a lot of drawings of me lying down that have surfaced since my fame. Yes. People were like,

I have a naked picture of you, and it's just probably going to be lying down because I didn't want to hold standing up for 15 minutes. That's at least 10 G's. Yeah. Oh, eBay. Naked Lynn, man. You, that's the new Rembrandt right there, boy. It was intro to drawing, guys. They can't be that good.

It was intro to drawing. Wow, boy. That's crazy. So anyway, Bill killed being music director, and then I was like, you're working with me. You're coming with me on my shows. I write my own shit and he sort of had no choice. It's sort of like how he wound up

on your show. He was just like, okay. And then there he was. Lynn's been doing the same impression of me for like almost 20 years at this point. Here's my line on Bill. Because he says it at every juncture in our career is from college onward.

I don't think it was going to be a big deal. It was a big deal. He makes me like a fucking idiot. That's my boss. No, that's you. Why do you always have to tell everybody what I do? My whole resume, every show. I just, why do you do that? Why?

Yeah, fuck. Like, because you're fucking amazing. Whatever. Okay. Anyway. So that's going to ask you guys. Did they know how great you guys were at the time with the whole theater department like, oh, this is going to be our, this is going to be a hit.

And people are going to always come back to Wesley. And there has to be that professor that was like scoffing at this. And now you, you came back, like, giving a master class 10 years later. Like, there has to be. My issue actually was that in the Heights was, I kind of peaked sophomore year. Because in the Heights was really good. It was a huge hit.

We sold cast albums of a college show, mainly because I couldn't get any, this is so dated, but like the weekend I had the theater was the weekend of the Wesleyan Millennium Concert. So all the good musicians were playing the Wesleyan Millennium concert. So I couldn't get any of,

musicians I wanted to play the weekend. You played the Millennium concert. I was one of those musicians who played my sound budget and I created karaoke tracks. So even in the first performance of In The Heights, they're singing to playback that I did at like a studio in Middletown. And so, and then I paid

the money back by selling albums. Is there a copy of the original in the Heights? Nope. Never, never. Okay. Someone saying no. Someone saying yes. I have a few of words.

Nope. Anyway. I feel like your career will be ended if you violate. Nope. I'll holl at you later, Bill. Thank you. So, yeah. So, uh.

Wow, you have an organics under your belt. That's amazing. Oh. I don't know what? Organics. The roots records. The roots album. The first roots album that's not a root song, but it's a roots album.

Okay. Who played our senior concert at Wesleyan? Anyone? The roots? The roots. We were all in the same 10 feet before we even knew each other many, many years ago. We played there while you guys were there? Yep.

With Ben on the bass. Wow. Wow. Okay. During phrenology period. Look at God. The only reason why I remember the DeSanti era was only because the infamous by Mobb Deep came out the day that we had to play. They're a spring fling in in 95.

And we were so, that's the only time I remember that and the Sopranos, the Sopranos ending season series ending. Do I remember abbreviating the show, the Root show, so we could rush offstage to do something else. What's funny is the Roots played at all our college shows. Like I'm sure it's at Fonte. I'm sure. He was at mine.

I saw him at USCG. They never came to, they never came to Central, but I saw him at UNCG and they came to Duke. Budget tight. Yeah. You guys had Biz Marquis

as the DJ beforehand. That's right. Always the perfect college DJ. Perfect. And he played, yeah, six times. Yeah,

got what I need six times. It was awesome. It was all the white kids were going crazy. He played just a friend six times. Six fucking times. Without even giving a shit. Without like,

there was no, it was the best. Nothing. He was just like, fuck it. He did it again. It was so great. So were you doing any, were you putting together? Now, I know there's a difference between participating in productions and putting it together.

What gave you the spark or the gumption or the nerve to even say, I have to put this together myself? Like, how does one do that at a college? Like, I want to put something together. It's funny because I went, I chose Wesleyan because it's one of the few places that lets you double major in theater and film. And I really loved film and I really love theater. And then like, I just got really practical once I got there. If you're a film major, this was pre-digital. So you're paying for film to make your senior film.

You have to pay for it yourself. And the best you can do is get your short into a festival, maybe get an agent, if the head of the department likes you more than the other kids and like kind of pushes you, if you make theater, it's 300 bucks for a show and the school pays for it. So I just remember thinking, like, I'm going to make as much theater as I can in these four years

because I knew my parents were killing themselves to pay for school. My dad literally quit his non-for-profit job and went to like a high pick because I was going to college. Like I was very aware of that burden. What does the box do? What would you do? My mom's a psychologist, and my dad was the head of a nonprofit called the Hispanic Federation. That's sort of this umbrella organization for Latino organizations.

And he went into political consulting the year I went to school because he was like, I have to. I got to make this brave. I got to get that money. And so, I mean, it's not an accident that one of the major plot lines of in the Heights is like parents killing themselves to pay for Nina's school. and her kind of accepting that sacrifice. And instead of being like, I don't want this life, it's like, you know, I'm going to make the most of it. I'm going to make the most of what you guys have done so that I could be here.

And so I just was like, if I leave Wesley with just a degree in theater studies, like, I don't know what that's going to be. So I just like tried to treat it like a four-year workshop. Like I wrote a musical every year and I would put it up. And I acted in other people's stuff too. And I, you know, the cool thing about theater majoring is that you, you learn, you hang lights for other people's shows. I did set design for other people shows. I did sound as, like, you learn all these other different skills, which helps you in the world because you kind of know what everyone else does in their respective departments.

I can't know how to hustle you because you done did that shit before. I will say this. As stoner hippie music guy, I got laid X amount of times. as music director in Lynn shows, I got laid X times a thousand more times than being stoner hippie drum circle guy. If there's a time for me to have the damn sound effects of machines, I wish to...

Yes, Amir hit it. Post-production. No, you can't do it on this... COVID. Yeah. Post-producing. Wait, I do want to know, I mean, you know, no one

no one can plan lightning in a body, or plan a phenomenon or any of those things. But I have to say that if anyone has been privy to many a meeting or a summit meeting for these pitches in which they promise you the world, I've been that guy. meaning since 1999, since 2000, I've heard many a pitch

about, you know, there was a point where they were going to try to bring Wild Style to Broadway. And they described how we're going to change the world and da-da-da-da. I was part of the meeting when they first started at, you know, the famous two-ploc, two-flop.

Yeah. Play that, that, you know, got deaded in three weeks, everything. There was even a play based on probably the furthest I got involved with hip hop and Broadway. If you remember the Nike commercials where they were like bouncing the ball and rhythm. Oh, ball? Yeah. Yeah.

Right. I remember medical media pitching that. Yeah. I wanted that. They signed LL up. They wanted to do something about like streetball, like on the rucker, that sort of thing. It's a course line with basketball. No, that was the bitch.

I'm not joking. I'll say that we got about three months into it, three months into workshops. Here's the music lineup. Bootsie Collins, Nona Hendricks, Questlove. Bootsie Collins, Nona Hendricks, Questlove, and I think Mums. so that you know they wow they were like yo

you're going to be poetry and basketball and LL Cool J and da da da da da and you know the thing is is that Broadway is so addicted to this

like to this tin pan alley jazz fingers like this this this Gershwin thing they can't let go and it's like you

I mean out of, and there's four or five other plays that I've seen or been involved with pitches in which they go over the top and describing it. I mean, in your mind, are you thinking okay, I'm

finally going to Rid Broadway of its disease of being stuck in the 1930s and just updated? Like, are you thinking this at all when you're putting these productions together? Is it just like hey, it's a Thursday and I have a

clever idea I want to get down. Yeah, it's a combo of both. And it's actually, it brings us back to tick, tick, boom, because I think that I have parents who grew up with, I grew up with cast albums. My parents were like that generation who just collected, didn't even see the shows, but collected the cast albums. And so I grew up with those and loving those. But again, I think like for a lot of people, it just felt like something old white people did and old white people saw. And I enjoyed it, but it didn't seem like a world that was... It was like a walled garden. And then I saw rent, and that really changed it for me.

Because, one, it took place in the present. And that sounds so normal, but I hadn't seen any musicals that took place in the present. By the time, I'm a teenager, even a chorus line is a period piece. Okay, I hate to be that guy. What year did you see rent? I saw it the first year. On my 17th birthday, the last row of the Niederlander Theater, mezzanine.

Me too. So you saw it in 96. I saw it in 97 because I saw it for my 17th birthday. Yeah. Well, I didn't know if it was 96, 97. And for you, that was life-changing. Because the thing was, when I saw Rent in 2004, 2005, I was kind of like... It's a different thing.

I don't know. Maybe. No, you're right. Because I remember seeing rent in 2004, 2005. And it was, it felt like a copy of a copy of a copy by then. Like, I remember seeing it. We had a friend who was a swing in it. And so I got to go around the era you saw it.

I remember seeing one of the actresses, like, straight up falling asleep during Lobby, Moim. And it's like, that show doesn't work if, like, everybody doesn't believe in it in every, iota of their being. And you saw like that 20th cast. Wow. And but I remember when I- Well, that really shows the power of you because Hamilton is able to resonate powerfully with or without the nucleus cast. Well, yeah, but I also think we also as a production team are so much more involved than other production teams at this stage in a musical's life. Like, still have we.

weekly zooms with our cast members. Like, Tommy checks in, our director checks in, like, more than anybody. But for me, Renton 97 was a contemporary show, and it's not like, oh, my gosh, that sounds like it could be on the radio. It still sounded very rock on Broadway. But to me, it ended the conversation about rock on Broadway. It was sort of, Jonathan Larson was like, rock music and pop music and Broadway should reflect each other.

They just should be friends. that's why we liked Gershwin. He was on the radio and then you would go see the song you heard on the radio in the shows that night. And there's no reason popular music and theater music

shouldn't be in conversation with each other all the time. And that was, I mean, if anything, that's the thesis of rent and the score. And so I just extrapolated that to hip-hop. I was just like, I don't understand why

every time I see hip-hop reference in a Broadway musical, it's like in quotes. It's like, isn't it crazy that characters are rapping? I was like, hip-hop is 30 years old. It's so way past a joke at this point that, and it's some of the best storytelling in music. So why aren't you all in conversation with each other?

So even in the musicals I wrote in high school, I was always putting hip-hop in them. In the heights, had a ton of hip-hop in it. It was just, I just felt like it was a more exciting way to tell a story through music than what I was seeing. I think with hip-hop too, with rhymeing, like you can get more content in. Like, you know what I'm saying? If you give a singer's 16 bars and you give a rapper 16 bars, I'm saying. I'm going to say a whole lot more, you know what I'm saying, because it's just more content. There's something to say, too, about the audience that hip hop attracts and what that would bring to Broadway in the theater and what they were afraid of, right?

Yeah. No, I mean, it's so funny when I see when I would see David do the first round of interviews on Hamilton and, like, people would be like, you're rap. so fast. And he's like, no, I'm not. He's like, I'm not being fast for Broadway. Right, right. The Lafayette thing is, it's slower than anything tech nine's ever said in his life.

Right. Technine twister, same thing. Yeah, exactly. All those are worldwide choppers. But, like, you know, it is, in a way Hamilton's so past due. But the reason Hamilton works is

because it is the story of a writer. And I don't think people think of hip-hop artists as writers. And that was the only, that was the insight I brought to it was like, this is a guy who wrote himself into every situation. And that's what our favorite emcees do. They write about their reality so well that they transcend them that when you go across the world with your African high life band, Bill, you will meet people on the other side of the world who can wrap every lyric of Ready to Die or the Eight Mile soundtrack, or things fall apart. Like it transcends

because of its specificity. And that's, you know, when I was reading that book, that's to me what Hamilton did. And so I was like, hip hip hop is the only way to do this story. And how long did you spend writing Hamilton? How long the process was that?

I started in 2008, and we opened on Broadway in 2015. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, because it was also like, I kind of felt like a snake staring down an elephant.

Like for me to die. digest this history and then be able to like spit it back out in a way that it like told the story, you know, because I had to just do a ton of research full stop and then, you know, attack every moment and decide, you know, it's just a million decisions. And I had to read a lot of boring papers by people who are smarter than me. And have it make sense to me in a way that then I could write it and embody it and tell those stories. And make it make it make sense to the audience. Yeah. And make sense to myself. The other thing in The Secret Sauce is like a lot of the energy in Hamilton is like, can you believe this should happen? Can you believe this shit happened?

Because I'm experiencing that as I'm reading this story. Like, and then he's vice president. And then he shoots him. Like it's fucking crazy. And it's a soap opera. But yeah, it took a long time for me to digest it. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%.

I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. is a win. I don't care what y'all saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs

at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out

on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode

with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast.

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that when you go on vacation, you take, like right now Obama is about to turn in a two-volume book. And volume one, I believe, is 790 pages. So already a book the size of Hamilton that you read when you went on vacation, you finished that book on vacation? You couldn't? I don't know that I finished it on vacation,

but this was pre-kindle. This is before you could put 50 books in your back pocket. No, that's what I'm saying. It was just like, I don't want to pack 20 books. I'm just going to pack one big book, and that'll be my vacation book. I was just like, who takes a 700-page book on vacation?

I just knew the guy died in a duel at the end. That's what made it interesting. and I learned that in school and I was just like this will be interesting. Yeah, because that was my question. That was my next question. I was like, why Hamilton and not

Lincoln or Jefferson or whoever, right? Like, why? Or icebergs. What made you speaking for Hamilton. I think, honestly, it's because there was so much I didn't know by the time I started right. Like, what got the book off the shelf

and into my hands was, I knew this guy got shot by the vice president. Like, and I think around the time Dick Cheney had just shot a dude like on an accidental hunting trip. Yeah, on a hunting trip. Yeah, we shot his buddy in the face and his friend apologized. The face, right.

The face. Buckshot in the face. And so that was enough to just like pique my curiosity because that's really all I knew other than he was on the 10. And then when I opened the book and realized he was born and grew up in the Caribbean, that was interesting to me. I didn't know any of the white dudes on money were not born here. And then when he got the scholarship, this hurt. can't destroys the island, he writes about it, and they collect the money for a scholarship to send him to, not the states, it wasn't the states yet, the fucking mainland.

You know, that's when I was like, well, this guy, that's what my dad did. Like, my dad grew up in Puerto Rico and got a scholarship to come to New York at the same age, because my dad is way smarter than me. He had graduated college by the time he was 18. He skipped all the grades. He was like Puerto Rican doogie. and so that temperament of like how he was like I got the fuck out of here I got to make a life for myself like that was a very it reminded me of my dad and it also felt fundamentally like a hip-hop story like I'm going to get the fuck out of where I am and get to a better place in life and that's the stuff of good musicals you want the character who has a really strong want you want you know fucking Tony singing something's coming.

You want Elfabah singing, I'm going to meet the fucking wizard. That's the stuff of good musicals because they've just got this engine in them. So can I ask you a question, Lynn? I'm curious, in between the heights, how does, as a working artist, because you said how long it took for you to get to Hamilton,

what are you doing in the in-between years? I'm writing Sesame Street songs for Bill Sherman. That's okay. That's how you're paying the bill. That's what I was curious about. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Well, hold on.

We haven't completed this full story. So we graduated from college. All right. So we graduated from college. We didn't even get the freestyle of Supreme. Wait, hold on. We're getting there. That's, there you go.

So Lynn, so we graduated college. And then, so we both moved home for like six months. I never moved home. I went to stay. Yeah. So he, we, we knew if I moved home, I'd stay. So I didn't get myself for choice. So Lynn rents us apart.

with two other people. It's 5,000 Broadway. And so 20012 Street, which is like 20 blocks, no, like 10 blocks from Lynn's parents who live on Biboo Booboo Boodoo Boob Street. Oh, yeah, get that address to. I forgot you're like an important person. Stop looking at me like that. So, so, so, so, okay, so I move into this apartment. So if it rains outside, it rains inside. We make pizza bagels. like solely because we don't have any money. We skateboard. I got real into Bush's. Yeah, big beans. We skateboard. Beautiful bean footage.

We get, we skateboard in the house. There's like a mattress. Like if you fall on the skateboard, you take a nap on the mattress. Like, it's gross. It's gross. And you bring people there and they're like, this is fucking gross. Anyway, we live there for like four years. And I was just a substitute teacher.

Right. And I worked at MTV because my dad got me a job working in the IT department at MTV. So I was like answering emails sent in. into MTV. This is all true. And during my lunch breaks, Lynn and I would meet at the drama bookshop, which was then on 40th Street, between something and something, and we would go down in this basement and we would work on in the heights.

So he would bring a song, we would do a thing, blah, blah, blah, blah. With Tommy Cal and I'll talk more like that crew. Right. And this went on for years. And then finally, after, you know, charming enough people and doing enough work, we went up off Broadway on 37 Arts on 37th Street. and that was like an amazing humongous moment. Meanwhile, we're both he's still subbing. I'm still working this

totally dead end job. At one point I think I was like being paid to transcribe things for people like music. For you total request live? Yeah. Wow. You were a translator for Carson Dayland. I mean, yeah, more or less. Whatever, you had a job at TRIL. We had other weird jobs, Lynn.

What else? Oh, Lynn wrote music for his dad's like campaign ads. Yeah, just like, I mean, that's the easiest gig of just like, sad chord. This politician wants to kick puppies. Yo, that's crazy because as your career is blowing, that's always your dad's. Like, he's going in a whole different. Okay, so go ahead, Bill. So every Sunday, we would go to Lynn's parents' house and watch the soprano.

Sopranos live, like when it aired. Like, we would get off the stage from the screen. Because they would feed us, and they had cable and we didn't. Right. And we had no food. So it was like the only real meal we ate was every Sunday at Lynn's parents' house with like Lynn's grandmother, his cousin. like his parents.

It was awesome. And we went every Sunday and we walked past the Sopranos every week. Yeah. In fact, we saw the last Gabu Gou. Okay. And then in the Heights

went up off Broadway 2008 and we were like, holy shit. And then my first acting job, my first TV job was on the last season of the Sopinos. I got on. I was a bellhop. Oh, that's a bellhop.

That's a reason to go back in. Paging Mr. Herman, Paging Mr. Herman, Delhap. Really. Literally my line is, I don't know. Deep cut. I don't know. And I'm so green, you can see me look down for my mark where to stop in the episode.

You see me go. Wait, do you know the name of the episode? I'm sorry, my Apple TV is right in front of me right now. I got to see it. It's called Remember When. Amir, you missed and reenact with. Damn, Lynn was about to do. That's a thing.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And then Gendolfini goes, fucking guy. Oh, but you got to share screen time with the great Gandalfini. I did.

I did. Paulie was in that scene too, right? Paulie was in that scene too, yeah. No, Pauli's a lot. Okay, Pauli is pussy. It's different. Okay, I got to go back. Damn, you're in the last.

Wow, that's amazing. Wait, this is not when he went to Vegas, right? All right. Chris Love stopped talking to watching TV. Five minutes ago. Now, give me a story. I'm sorry. You're watching the Sopranos.

This is what happens on Quest Love Supreme. I'm still listening. Go ahead. So during this time, getting towards off Broadway, I moved out of that house and moved in with my girlfriend, who then became my wife. And then, and then, in a world of pure imagination. Oh, yes. And then, right on time. You're welcome.

We were rehearsing that before we did this. And then what happened? But Lynn, Lynn started dating his now wife. We had children anyway. And so then in the Heights happens and we have careers. Poof, careers. How long was in the Heights? How long was writing that process?

It was from, I mean, basically from the moment I met Tommy Koehl when I graduated in 2002 to opening night, like January of 2008. It was my 20s. Like, basically, in the height, it was my 20s. Hamilton was my 30s. Lots of other gigs and and sort of amazing things in between. But those are the broad strokes. Yeah. So with theater, I'm curious to know how long do you have, I guess, to edit something before it goes up?

You know, how if something opens January 1, you know, in terms of like, previews? Yeah. Every show is different for heights. we gave ourselves a solid four weeks so that we can make changes because the audience is the last collaborator and they'll tell you what's working, what's not and what needs finessing. And it may not

even be the writing of it. It may be that number is not ending with the right light or this dance sequence isn't landing the way we want it to land. So that's what previews is for is to get the audience in. That's why you go to Joe's Pub and work out.

The public feels not like chatting. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, Hamilton was interesting because we did the first performance at the public, and it ran at three hours and ten minutes. Yeah, about three hours and ten minutes. And it was sort of like, well, shit, I like Les Mis, but I don't want to be longer than Les Mis. And so, and Tommy was so, you know, Tommy is smart, full stop, but he's also politically really smart because sometimes people get. salty when their stuff is cut. You can do cuts the wrong way

in a way that the cast doesn't feel in on it. And he said, the first thing we need to do is cut any song addressing any character that is not on stage. And I had a hot 16 bars about John Adams who was never played by anyone. It was like an offstage address.

And that was the first thing we cut. And it was great because it also sent a message to the rest of the cast. Like, we just cut the composer's best 16. So this is not about... And nobody says, Hey, hell yeah. Anybody can get.

It's not about you. It's about the show. It's about what's best for the show. It's not about whether you're doing it well or not. Like, this is about honing the material. So we cut all my shit first and brought like brought down 10 minutes. And then, and then, you know, we got it down to about, we got it down to like 250 at the public. And then we use the jump to Broadway to cut another 15 minutes.

So before it goes to Broadway, you. have the previews that are for an audience where that's almost kind of like, I don't say a focus group, but that's where you, like you said, it's a nightly focus group. And it's, and again, it's also, it's not even about like, they laughed at this, they didn't laugh at this, because sometimes you get the wrong laugh. Like, we had a line in history has its eyes on you where Chris Jackson was getting a laugh at the top of the song because I can't remember what it was. But he basically name checks the French and Indian War. And the nerds, in the audience, me like, ha, ha, ha, I know about that. And it was like, no, no, we don't want to laugh here.

Like, that may be true, but it's a laugh when we don't need it. Similar with the L.L. quote, we had a, we used to have an I Need Love quote in the show. That's right. In the affair. Right. That song used to start, when I'm alone in my room, sometimes I look at the wall. And yeah, I took it out because the audience was laughing at the reference and they weren't listening to what was happening. To the world was saying, yeah. You know, like, it was a great reference. And even L.L. reached out, was like, you can clear it. I'm cool with it. And that was amazing. I feel like literally, like, tweeted at me, like, let's talk about it. But it was just a laugh at the wrong moment. So we cut it. Yeah, I saw in the Heights. I've still yet to watch

Hamilton. I saw in the Heights, a local, a regional theater group did it here in Riley North Carolina and a good friend of mine, Carly Jones, she played Camilla. And we saw it. And it was a great show, man. I hit Bill afterwards. I sent in the program, I was like, yo, this was really dope because I'm not a theater guy,

you know, at all. You know, I hadn't really, you know, that's why I just hearing all these stories. I'm just curious to know, like, how they're worked out and how they're fleshed out. And, you know, when you say you started something in 2002 and y'all were working on it up until 08, it's like, damn.

Like, you know, how many rewis said it is. Because I feel, Like, you would shine in theater. Oh, yeah. Indeed. Absolutely. But in Fonda, you should be in Hamilton. In the new, in, in, I mean, any new version of it, not again.

Like, I feel like there is. Not jazz hands, 30s. No. But you should have a writing input too, though, that's just the performance. Well, again, like, I have to say, like, after Heights closed, we ran from 2008 through the end of 2010. there was a part of me that was a little frustrated that hip hop land was over here and musical theater was over here and there was so little Venn diagram. Like I could not get the hip hop artists I admired too into the Rogers. I could not get awareness of the show in the hip hop community.

It did well in the Latin community and it brought Latin audiences to Broadway in a big way while it was there. But it was just like no one was even checking for it. I felt like I was jumping up and waving my arms. And it hadn't happened in a real way. Like, I remember Run DMC came to the show. Like, a couple of, like, legends came, and it was really, like, huge for me. But with Hamilton, I just, I remember wanting so, I was just like, this thing is such a fucking love letter to hip hop.

Like, it would be a shame. And I know it's sailing over the heads of the strictly musical theater fans. We're not getting the Ten Crack Commandments reference or the Mob Deep reference or the, you know, brand newbie reference. reference, because it's all the 90s hip-hop shit I like. I crammed into the show. Do you think Price Point was an issue? Because maybe not for those famous people, but for their audience or for the people who surround

them that they couldn't have a conversation with. I think it's always an issue. I think it's one of the biggest issues facing theater. I mean, that's... I didn't know. I definitely wanted to see it. And I still have, yeah, I got to, now I got to get Disney Plus. It's called me a barrier.

Yeah. Or Disney Plus password. Oh, yes. I said I'm working on that. Of the six devices, friends. Hey, thank you. Thank you, Lynn. I got you.

Yeah. So I was really gratified when Hamilton was received the way it was because the folks that I knew would enjoy it were able to see it. Have you seen it? Have you seen it now since it's on Disney Plus and it's becoming more accessible? Do you have you seen or do you foresee an influx of it being used? as a tool in teaching, like in school and stuff like that? Yeah, well, that was one of the first things that we realized coming out of it. Like, 250,000 students have seen Hamilton, thanks to Edgeaham, this educational program

we did, because we realized really quick, like, oh, this is becoming a buzz that is bigger than we can control. And if kids can't see the show, we fucked up. Because this is like a semester of APUS history in about two and a half hours. Wow. And so we partnered with a nonprofit called the Gilder Lerman Association that basically deals in teaching American history. And we created Edge of Ham, which is these dedicated shows that are these student matinees. We start with the students do a curriculum where they write about whoever they want in American history.

And I mean, you can go, if you Google Edgeham, you'll see the most amazing shit. Like Phyllis Wheatley poems and a Saturday. Hemming songs. People really like take the assignment and like, of like, oh, what's the history I'm not learning about? I'm going to write about that. And they perform it for us. They get their Broadway debut and they perform on stage and the best group from each school

performs. They all scream for each other. Then they do a Q&A with the cast. And then we perform the matinee for them. And it's the biggest legacy of the show because I feel like it opens up, it opens up history in a way that says this is yours. This is yours. Go ahead.

Oh, no, no. Now, I was just going to ask you, you know, in regards to Hamilton, this was a couple, this is a while back. You were on Twitter and Tracy Clayton. Yeah, Tracy. Okay, play a family. I was like, we all kind of go way back. But y'all were having a discussion about Hamilton and you were very open, like, to the criticisms of, like, you know, what didn't really address kind of the horrors of slavery and him being like the slave owner, like, all that stuff. and, you know, and I thought what you said was very fair of just like, look, I tried to get in what I could.

I only had, you know, two and a half hours, you know. How do you decide what to cut, what to leave in, what's pertinent to the story? How do you, I guess, how do you wrestle with all that and tell them the story? Every show is different with Hamilton. The relentlessness was the thing. Like, if it didn't, I mean, we cut characters because they weren't in Hamilton's life for long enough. You know, like the guy who you legit. him is not in the show because he didn't meet him until later in his life. Ben Franklin,

kind of an important guy, not in the show, because he didn't interact with Hamilton enough. And so it's interesting when you have the success that Hamilton has had, what happens is everyone, like, get interested because this show has made them interested. And then they go, and they do their research and they go, wait a minute. Well, hold up, right. They're saying it did it with this. and you put this in. And I'm over here like, I know I've been researching this thing for six fucking years, but I wanted to get, you know, I'm writing a musical. I'm not writing a history report.

And so I'm open to the criticism because I know what's on the cutting room floor. And I know that, you know, it's interesting. Like, I remember in the first year, people really discovered John Lawrence. John Lawrence was the most anti-slavery of that group of friends. And he also, people believe, and there's a really strong case for it, that he and Hamilton were lovers. Like the letters they write to each other are just as passionate as some of the ones Hamilton wrote to Eliza. And people said, what about this? And I said, yeah, maybe, probably.

The thing is, Lawrence doesn't survive the act. So I can't really go there because I'm not going to get to explore it in Act 2. So that's why I didn't explore that facet of him. Yes. Did you get to lean on other? I'm curious because there's a lot of people who've had the experience of creating biopics or things based on people's lives. Did you ever have to talk to other folks that had that similar experience

that they had to cut out stuff and they were criticized? Because I thought about as you were talking, I was like, yeah, I remember when people came in Spike Lee because even with that long-ass movie, it wasn't enough for Malcolm X. For Macombie, yeah. I mean, that's just the part of the, and the only thing you can say is everyone's right. It's not all in there. And also, like, criticism is not cancellation.

It's criticism. And I can take criticism. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's, I'm a big boy, and I know what's not in there. And what I console myself with is it sparks conversations about what's not in it and about the faults of these folks and how flawed the documents are and how flawed these men were.

The thing I take issue with is, I don't think we'd glorify these guys for a second. I just don't think, that was not my aim. My aim was to tell as compelling a story as I have while I have you in that theater for two and a half hours and paint them as flawed as a piece of musical theater can paint them. But, like, yes, you're all right.

That's not in it. That's not in it. That's not in it. That's not in it. Like, and, you know, and this was the springboard for that discussion. Yeah. Do you think, you know, because seeing in the heights and just seeing, yeah, just seeing like all like just, you know, black and Latino faces on stage, you know what I mean?

That was probably the first theater, you know, show I've been to since I was small. You know, I hadn't been in like decades. And, you know, do you think that these stories and the way you're telling them, have you seen that opened the door for more black and Latino people to tell their stories on Broadway? Yeah, I mean, I'm always pessimistic about Broadway. I'm actually really optimistic about this moment because we're in the middle of a civil rights movement in our country and business is on pause. So you cannot say you don't have time to deal with this. You cannot say you don't have time to talk about equity in the kinds of stories you're choosing to put your money into as Broadway producers. But listen, I started writing in the Heights because

I don't dance well enough to be in West Side Story. And when I was a senior in high school, this musical by Paul Simon called The Cape Man came out. And it was about Puerto Rican gang members in the 1950s. And as much as I love Paul Simon, I was like, what the fuck? Like, this is a very overrepresented group on Broadway at this point. Puerto Rican gang members from the 1950s. Can we literally have a show where we don't have a fucking knife in our hands?

And so in the Heights was born out of an, oh shit, no one's going to write your dream show. Because Paul Simon is one of my favorite writers. He's not right my dream show. What did he know about Puerto Rico? Like, I'm not expecting Paul Simon to tell him that story. And he loved the music and he wrote music that really fits in that world. But like, I just I just remember because it also had Mark Anthony. It had Ruben Blades.

Like it had a lot of my heroes in it. Like I remember having the highest hopes of like, oh, shit, here comes your dream show. it's the Kate man. And then it super wasn't. And I, it was like, it was the wake up moment of like, you have to create the thing that you want to exist for it to exist. Stop because no one's going to make it. Interestingly enough, when we,

when the Heights first came out, we got bad press saying that like in the Heights didn't have enough teeth. Like it wasn't a real representation of Washington Heights because people didn't have not. Where in the crimes? And we were like, that's all it's about. But we were like, we live there.

It's not. there, man. Like, we lived there the whole time, you know. Because if you're only access to a neighborhood is seeing it on the 11 o'clock news and you have no engagement with it beyond that, that's all you can get is. Yeah. I was curious what spoke to y'all, you and Bill,

since we talked about there weren't many spaces for hip hop in that way, but when you were growing up, like, what were the shows, I know you listened to the cast albums, what were the shows that spoke to y'all that said, this is, I might want to be in this. Well, again, I'm

Born in 1980. So there's just never a point where hip hop's not a part of my life. I have an older sister. She gets all the credit from my hip hop education. She took me to Beat Street in the theater. I cried. Beatt Street was in the theater? Yeah.

I saw Beech Street. Yeah. She took me to Wild Style. She took me to Crush Groove. For my sixth grade graduation, my sister's present to me was a pair of Jabot jeans, and she took me to see Class Act starting to do that. Oh, my God.

Motherfucking. Lay Brown. Sister, you'd be like, that's her. That's hip hop. Straight up. I stole her Black Sheep album. I stole her De La Sola's Dead album.

Like, that was, like, digging in my sister's albums was how I fell in love with hip hop. It's funny. It's funny. Y'all say that because somebody, I told somebody yesterday that we were interviewing Lynn, and it literally were like, do you make sure you bring up the fact that kid and play changed how hip hop was preceded in media and changed the way, like, started the real diversification. and hip-hop. And I was like, I never thought

about that like that. Kid and play. It's the old thing. Class act. Yes. Yes. House party. Shit. House party was amazing. With the cartoon, too. With the cartoon. Yeah, they had a cartoon. Yeah. Here's another great thing of. All those sequels, house party three has one of the funniest lines in all of cinema history when they accidentally

give the grandma the porno instead of the Ninja Turtles. That ain't turtles. That's an ass. That's not a Ninja Turtle. That's an ass. One of the funniest lines in cinema history. Well, the interesting about Lynn is like Amir going record shopping for people. One of Lynn's great things when we were younger was he would make mix CDs like for everything and all the time. And so like we had this bathroom that had like this wallpaper sort of holder. Yeah, we had like hundreds of mix CDs. So like we had this, we had a boom box.

What the fuck you call it? A CD player in the bathroom. And it was only in the bathroom. So we would play the, we would turn on his mix CDs and we listened to everything. And so like those were the days of like pun and and that kind of stuff and BIG. Like that's all we listened to. It was like really heavy Latin music. So like Juan Luis Gera and Huberta Santorosa and like Willi Colon.

And then like fucking just like hip hop all day long and like all this stuff that we're talking about. And so that's also where I sort of. Was that your Juanis Gia dance? I did the dance. Yes, it was. That was amazing. All right. That was great.

My New York's awesome. With all the, speaking of dance, like, with all the dancers, like, specifically in the Heights, like, the break dancing that you found, were they, were those people on Broadway that already knew how to break, or did you have to go and find breakers? It was a mix of, like, breakers and folks who had, who had a little theater experience, but we had a lot of debuts within the Heights. Like, there were so many debuts with Heights and with Hamilton. Ramos made his debut.

David made his debut. Like, you know, the thing is the shows I write are made for people who don't ordinarily get invited to get us on the board. Like, so with Heights, bring it on, broke the record for the number of debuts. We had 32 Broadway debuts with that show. And that's the one I wrote, I co-wrote in between in the Heights and Hamilton. But, you know, sort of the same principles at work, like of just like pop music and theater music should be friends. Like, there's no reason there should be a separation there. Is there a pressure to bring a name to the show when you present it?

I remember in Fela maybe during the last, well, not during the last run, but basically us getting a name would ensure that it could have an additional four months, an additional. That pressure comes with time, I think. And every show goes through a version of it where the, you hope the novelty of a new musical catches on and the word of mouth catches on.

But there's a point at which the professional Broadway goers have all seen it. And unless you have something to attract them, and that's when the name thing comes. But like, I remember a Broadway producer told me, like getting a name, a quote-unquote celebrity name to be in your show is like starting hard drugs.

Like you don't get off it once you start it. You can't put so-and-so from Dancing the Stars and then have like just a talented guy who auditioned after him. Like once you're on that ride, you don't get off. Wow. Who's the, who's the biggest name that we would know that has approached you about wanting to do Hamilton for like a second? Like, you do, I got three months. Every white actor wants to play King George.

Really? Yeah, because they love Hamilton, but they know it's not right to ask to play Hamilton or Burr. because those are for us. And so they go, can I play King George? I mean, insert white celebrity here. And also, they realize it's not a lot of work. It's one song and two reprises. Right, right.

So that's been the most, probably most requested. It's like mad, famous white people are like, I could play King George. The way that, I don't know the system of how Broadway works, but is it that only in your first year, Are you eligible for Tony run? And then that's it. Tony, Tony happens sort of within the season in which you come out,

which pre-pandemic was sort of June, because that's when the Tonys are, to June to like May, April, May of the following year. And then that's your, that's your class. Okay. So if there wasn't, uh, if there wasn't, uh, pandemic and say Clooney wanted to, or Brad Pitt wanted to play,

uh, King George and he killed it. Would he be eligible? It would be for the love of the game. Yeah. Wow. That already happened. Yeah, there's no, there have been occasionally campaigns for a Tony award for like best

replacement, which I think is honestly like celebrities being like, can I just be in Chicago and you get a Tony? Oh, so don't get there you got. There you got. And sometimes it's really like warranted. You know, like I remember seeing, you know, The most famous case is they did a production

Annie Get Your Gun with Bernadette Peters and she was amazing but then they got like Reba McIntyre and like nobody's more fucking perfect for that part than Reba McIntyre and so people were like man I wish there was a Tony for Best Replacement because she really like transformed So there's a case to be made But they do have a revival category

so how long would Hamilton have to be dormant for it to get best revival or is it a five or 10-year rule? I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. You just get like, I guess, like, Broadway people being like, that was quick that you're back. Like, I remember when, like, Le Miz did their revival, everyone was like, lay Mizz was closed?

Yeah. I didn't even know that was closed. I didn't even know that way. Yeah, I was close to know, man, what are some of your favorite musicals? Because I'm, you know, this is all, like, it's very new to me. And I remember, I actually,

You talk about theater. Now I think about I actually did hair when I was a senior in high school. T. Yeah, you did. I did. I did. I knew. But it was hard.

Did you get naked at the end of that? Did you get naked? Come on, man. This was in high school. This is in Greenville, North Carolina. Like, we had to cut all kind of shit out of the play. Like, it was so much. So no one got naked.

Okay. No, no, no, no, we cut that shit out. We, we, we were so much. A lot of the drug was appropriate price. Bro. That shit was like an hour 15 minutes. Oh, no. Yeah, that shit was an episode of date line, nigga.

So, you know what I mean? But like, yeah, but I did it. But now, so I was curious to know, like, what some of your favorite musicals and like what makes them good? Because to me, just kind of as an outsider, it all kind of sounds the same. Like, Harris spoke to me because I knew Pete Rock sample.

The Brigbeats. Oh, I go. Yeah. James Redo was just, like, just wrote great bass shit. Like, there's just great, you know what I'm saying? incredible baselines in all of Galt McDermott's shit. So like from that, all of this stuff, like

I can tell you all ain't going to shout out Annie in this episode. Annie ain't going to get no love, but that's fine. It's a girl thing. It's fine. It's fine. Well, I was going to start with Annie. Thank you. I'm dealing. You know what? You know what? Wait, the secret fact, I was part of the

of the of the letter writing process of Jay Z asking permission to use that sample? Oh, do you use hard? I don't know if I don't know if I can Right. He told Charles Strauss He was like, I listened to this and it gave me faith that I was going to get out one day.

That letter got out. It's in his book. Oh. I got Jay Z's book. Yeah. I didn't know. Well, that's right after. Hamilton, right before Hamilton, he read Jay-Z's book. I was the sounding board

for, do you think this will work? And I was like, oh, okay. Like, and I was like, this really happened? Like, no. I was like, oh, okay. No, he did not. Still one of the best songs of all musical time aside of everything that happened in the Wiz.

So, Andy, like, what's your take on cats? I've never seen cats, but like, I've heard it kind of get trashed later in that. I was not a cat's guy. like when I was a kid, you know, my parents had a lot of cast albums, but I was like a lot of Hamilton fans in that like, I just kind of imagined the shows.

We didn't have money for Broadway. You know, no production of Manila Mancha is going to match my mental version of Mano La Mancha. I've still never seen it. But we saw the like 80s holy trinity of Phantom Le Amiz and Cats. Those were the three musicals in the 80s. And Le May Miss, like,

what I remember most about it, I fell asleep. I was seven. I remember sort of the fact that the confrontation, which is as hip-hop as that show gets, where it's like Valjean and Javert singing their parts at each other. And I always wanted a meth, Red Man version of the confrontation in Les.

I'm just like, I am warning you, Chavez. And this is like, fucking yelling at each other. I love that song. I'm just glad they made it a movie, so I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I couldn't get into the movie. I tried.

I was like, I couldn't get it. I had to let it go through once. But what I remember the most is my parents buying the two CD set. It was like one of the first CDs we owned because this is when they still sold them in the long boxes. In a long box. Hell yeah. And my mom would cry every time they played. She would play Bring Him Home and just like weep.

And I think the seeing how that music affected my parents made it more interesting to me. Like the fact that it could make my parents cry. was a huge deal. And then Phantom was just my shit. Like Phantom is about an ugly songwriter who's like, if you don't like me, I'm going to fuck everybody on. I was 12 and I related to that. I was like, yes, go on Phantom.

And then cats, like, I just remember the cats coming out and pawn at you in the audience. I didn't really have any patience. I didn't get it and I wasn't into it. Like it had a moment. I wasn't, I missed the moment. I was too young. any well not any thoughts on the movie but is there fear or trepidation when

something that's such a sure shot doesn't translate well on screen that was never a sure shot that's that's that's the that thing is that like you from the outside looking at timeout for from the outside looking in yeah it was the guy who directed lay miss it was From the outside looking in, and I'm thinking like, okay, they got all their all their porons in a row and it's coming out for Christmas and how can I not expect this to be like, this is it? Like what? Yeah. What happened? How did that turn into Ishtar?

Because it's about cats. And it has no plot. It has some, it has one incredible. 80s ballad for the ages with memory. And Jennifer Hudson singing that is not enough for a whole movie, although it is a wonderful sequence in the movie. So is this the Quincy Jones can't polish doo-doo? No, it's not that it's even doo-doo.

It's that it was sort of like this cult favorite that I think was successful because it was so out of the box that you had to see it. And then I think it ran a long time because you don't need to speak a word of English to enjoy cats. So it was a huge international hit. You could just be like, what's on Broadway? Like you come from any country in the world. What's on Broadway?

Cats, let's go see cats. Like, it just became this hit that you had to see. It just became synonymous with Broadway in a very real way. But if you look, if you actually took a closer look, like, there's no story. These cats all say, I want to go. This is a song about me. This is a song about me. Jennifer Hudson sings memory.

Okay, it's her. Let's go. Do y'all remember the last play that worked on film? I see, that's, well, it's interesting because The Wiz was pan, too. We're not going to have this conversation. Let's just go fast full. The Wiz meant everything to me.

Lynn, are you ready for a black conversation? Because it's about to be a real black conversation about the Whiz. Here we go. I don't know why you had to do that because I was trying to avoid the Whiz. I was trying to. Listen, the Wiz is one of the greatest horror movies of our time. I said it is. It was scary.

It was entertaining. The trash monsters as you say it. You know what? The whiz on mushrooms is even better. I'll bet cats on mushrooms is much more enjoyable experience than cats on sober. Is there an answer to that question? Has there been a great best film?

The best play on film? So here's my thing. I believe there are great movie musicals. I think adapting a stage musical to film is one of the hardest things you can do. I like the chorus line. You like the chorus line movie? You like the chorus line the movie? I did.

Do you have a, I watched it like 15 times? I've never seen it. Well, I think if you watch the chorus line the show first, the course line in the movie is like, what's happening. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's about how you experience it, you know,

because there's great performances in the chorus line movie, but the show is so much about that line and everyone being equal that like the movie is like, where are we? What's happening? Like, why are we following Michael Douglas? What? Hold up. You know what?

Yes, he was the director. What are you talking about? He's a director. I would say every song up in here. So knowing that you have that level of scrutiny as a fan, you still treat movies and, you know, you're still a fan first before you're a suit. How much adjustment did you have to make to in the heights, the movie? I think the gold standard of an movie adaptation is cabaret. the cabaret movie is completely different from the show.

You wouldn't recognize it, but it's genius, and it is its own thing. And when you go see the show, it is genius in its own way, but it's just they're different things. And that's how we approached in the Heights. We were like, we cannot put the show on stage. It won't work. It's a different medium. You can't put a two-act show in a three-act structure. And so a lot of the credit for, I think Heights is an amazing adaptation,

But a lot of the credit goes to Kiara, who really had distance from it when she wrote the screenplay. She was my co-writer for the show. And she wrote the libretto for the show. And she made a bunch of really bold choices to update it. That means cutting some songs. That means, but it also means opening up the world in the way. The other thing we did that was so important was we shot on location. And we cast this thing like, you can't just be like Hollywood good.

You have to, like, be, you have to not look out of place on 175th at Wadsworth. Does that make sense? Like, you've got to, it's got to work on the plot. Yeah, it's got to have real authenticity. And so I think our movie is a really good adaptation because it's not faithful, but it's faithful in the right way. It's faithful to the spirit, but not the, this happens and this happens, this happens and this happens.

Like, I think that's where, like, I think that's where the rent movie is less successful. They use the original cast 15 years after the fact, and they're all incredibly talented, but those aren't 20-somethings anymore. Yeah. It's a different story. It's a different story. It just is a different story. And so, you know, that's the tricky thing.

2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the I-Hart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, this is totally off subject, but I feel like only you can explain this to me. Okay, so in quarantining, I got caught up. One of the best movie podcasts that you can listen to is the A-24. channel. Oh, they got a podcast, the production company? Yo, the Saffty brothers and Paul Thomas Anderson alone, that episode where they have like directors interview each other. So when uncut jims came out, Paul Thomas Anderson interviewed the Saffty brothers. But there's an episode

where Martin Scorsese finally talks about New York, New York. And as a Scorsese fan for the life of me. And this is weird. Of all the films, what convinced Michael Jackson to do the bad film with Scorsese was New York, New York. He had never seen Raging Bull, none of that stuff. But as a Scorsese fan, I knew that he had a nervous breakdown doing New York, New York. But I never knew how that film, I don't know if, I can't judge musicals on film to know, like, I'm like, I'm like, Laiae with the Cordes line. Like, I like everything. Like, I'm the guy that's all staying alive and was like, it was good, right? I saw Zanada do like.

Zana's like. I like the music and Zana do. But that's the thing. You can't trust nothing under. If you're under the age of 12, you like anything. That's right. We like the wood. You know what I'm saying?

Probably right after Beat Street. Right. I liked all that shit. I didn't realize that all the shit was pin. Yeah. Y'all gonna stop loving in the way. What I'm asking is, was assuming that you, Lee saw New York, New York.

Was it bad or like? I don't think it was so much that it was bad. I just think it was an uneasy mix of styles. It's Jake LaMotta in a musical. It's Travis Bickle in a musical. Like, Scorsese doesn't stop Scorseseing, and he's mean to Liza Minnelli, and he beats her up. But then you're bursting into song, and I don't think they figure out of a way.

to me. Are you trying to remember this movie? You're going to make me go wash it. Okay. Similar to jungle fever, like, for some reason, Scorsese won't let this out on, you know, on screen. I know it's really hard to find.

It is extra. I have on DVD somewhere in my storage room. But this is my first time ever hearing of this movie. Me too. He did it. And the song that closes all the Yankee games is from that movie. That was never written for a musical. like that was written for that movie

and then Sinatra did his own version you know, Candor and Ev like don't love Sanatra's version they're like he fucked up all the lyrics but that's the version we all know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, he did it

77 after taxi driver, right? Hey, number one. Hey number one. You just said that shit twice. Right. Yeah, Scorsese did it in 76 or 77 right after taxi driver and it

it was almost like it's his version of I love well I'm interested only because that's his apocalypse now as far as how it nearly destroyed him like he almost didn't make Raising Bull because he was almost driven to the brink of suicide because of this film I'm not talking I'm gonna bring up the Wiz

one more time in that context there's a I mean, any director, like you read making movies by Sidney Lumet. Sydney Lumet made Serpico and Dog Day Afternoon and directed The Wiz. And it's one of the few times he cops took a mistake in the book. All he says is, I felt the look of the movie getting away from me. I felt like a distance between what I'm pictured and what my different departments were making. And when they were doing the Emerald City sequence, and you know, it's those beautiful

dancers and like the colors change and then all their outfits change. Like they can use half the footage because the gel was so hot that it like blew out the exposure. So it was sort of, I mean, you will never get a better cast again in the history of movies than the cast of the Wiz. And the music, I'm sorry, I got selfish plug. And the new, like, you can't win is not in the stage show. You can't win. I mean, it's not in a state. There's not in the stage show.

not in the stage show. Now we're going to the stage show. You don't remember home. Is that what we doing Fonte? You don't remember home? Home was the home, but... I'm just saying... I mean, you've seen Jasmine Sullivan

as like a two-year-old singing... Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of new songs. Well, in the Quincy, in the Unheard Quincy episode, he did six new songs for the ways that, you know, that's why he was up all night writing him. You know, he's writing them joints on the spot. That Emerald City sequence.

Charlie Smalls who wrote most of the music. I'm talking about the songs that weren't Charlie involved. I know, but his name doesn't get set. Once he was literally flying by the seat of his pants, like writing stuff three days before they were due on set and the choreographers didn't even have the shit ready and, like, they were kind of winging it. Sounds like a Miranda deadline. Yeah, I got, I can imagine that.

It sounds like a Miranda deadline. Yeah, you know what? I was going to ask. How do you, I'm a last minute and how do you pick your project? Between just, you know, being, you know, playwright, actor, you know, MC, songwriter, like, how do you pick? I have, I try to go by two criteria. One, am I going to learn from this a thing that I can, like, I always think of the DeVry technical school. Yeah.

Come up off your ass. What you do? Like, you ain't doing shit. Take your ass school. Once you use that tool, it goes in your toolbox. Like, you learn each tool one at a time. if that's how it worked. So, like, that's how I, like, it's like, okay, I'm going to learn, you know, Mary Poppins

returns. I was not a big Mary Poppins guy, but I'm going to watch the director of Chicago, direct a musical. Like, and I'm going to learn from watching him do that. And that's going to help me for the next thing. And then the other shit is just like stuff I'd kick myself forever if I said no. Like, ducktails, do a voice gizmo duck on duck tails. Like, yeah, if I say no, I'm going to hate the person who did it forever. Like, I'm going to be fucking gizmo about.

So Lynn, please tell me about your curbing your enthusiasm experience. That's an example of like I kicked myself forever. Yes, and which you learned everything. Please tell me. What you have to know is that not a word of it dialogue is written. I do know this. But he has the whole season.

And he calls you. They're like, Larry David wants to talk to you and you go, oh my God. And so he calls you and he pitches you the whole season. He goes, you know, I don't know if you know the show, but there was a fatwa on me. And I'm going to figure, I'm going to lift the fatwa because I'm going to help a guy cut the line. And like, I'm going to say he was here before. And because of that, he's going to cut the... And I'm going to go on with Fathwa the musical. And the people in charge of Fáhasa, you can do Fottwa the musical, but only if Limein-Mewan's involved... Oh, Hamilton. We love Hamilton. Yes, yes. We love Hamilton. And then, like, you're involved, but, like, we don't get along and, like, you're pain in the ass and we don't like each other. And then somehow we're going to get to, like, a duel and I'm going to shoot you with a paintball gun.

like it was all in the night pitch on the phone and like how do you say no to that? You don't. And there's no script. And there's no script. And so I told him, I have to do that with you.

But I'm about to leave the country for eight months. I was doing Mary Poppins returns. And so he said, well, they let me film it whenever I want so we'll work around you. So I filmed my stuff for the first episode. like the weekend I was in town for the Oscars, I filmed all the office shit,

and then they like broke until I got back, and then they reassemble the crew, filled my scenes and cut it again, because he has such cachet at HBO. He just goes, I got an idea. And they're like, all right, we're doing another season. Like that's, and what's amazing is he really, like, has,

he's a genius because he's created a system where he doesn't have to learn one line, but he can create a whole season of TV. Like Jeff Schaefer, who's his number two, who's sort of the showrunner, has these pieces of paper. He's kind of keeping track of the plot lines. And so, like, there would be times when he'd come in and be like, all right, remember in this scene, you've just come from your cousins. And Larry would just shoe him away. Like, we'll figure it out.

We'll figure it out. He's like, I don't like knowing too much stuff. We'll get there. And he just wants to get there organically. He doesn't want to have to remember shit. Oh, that's the life. There's no curb. There's no light.

on the floor that I guess. No, it's Jeff Schaefer and, and Larry David. Like, Larry David gets an idea and he works with his showrunner and they kind of work out the beats and they schedule it by episode what they want to happen. That is amazing. But not a line of dialogue. And it was funny because then you also have to figure out your own relationship to Larry. So, like, I figured, like, all right, I can't be Nina Esman because no one curses out Larry like Nina Esman. And I can't be the hype guy because, like, J.B. Smooth is a.

legit genius and I can't do what he does so I was like I'll be the antagonist but I'm just going to be like really positive while I do the opposite of whatever he wants me to do like that was my whole thing was like oh do you like this shirt Larry

I'd be like yeah I like it okay we need to look at more shirts like just do the opposite like always happy to him because he knows how to deal with aggressive but he doesn't know how to deal with like passive aggressive positivity the opposite of what he wants. So that was my way

of being an asshole. So thank you. Have you, have you planned it, at least that you can talk about? I guess the white elephant in the room is people are dying to know what your next Broadway

venture will be, which, you know, again, is, you know, I assume that this time is sort of like what 1985 was to Michael Jackson

after Thrillard. But there's lessons in that, right? Like, I think there's stuff in bad that I love. Like, Dangerous is legit my favorite album because I was 12 when it came out. And the music that comes out in the 12 is what means the most to you forever. I remember being in the mirror being like, and like just trials and my obsessions. Like, yes, yes. But the thing, but the thing is that.

Let me let me, wait, let me finish the, like, the, the, okay, go ahead. I think one of the dangers is to go bigger. Like, there's a temptation to be like, this one's going to be even. We can top. Like, if you go to the, like, topping yourself place, like, that's where I think people mess up. And so, like, I'm not going to write, like, a three-act historical, musical. Like, yeah, I get pissed that 20 fucking times a day on Twitter every day.

Oh, really? Every day. Can you please write something about this so people finally know? I was like, I think people know. It's just a matter of what side people have chosen. Exactly, because one of them know and they still don't care. They know. The thing is, is though, most artists will do what they call the departure album,

which is like the opposite of that. I was actually going to say, I kind of admire Mike's balls for actually saying, you know what, I could top thriller. like he's literally the only one that had a mountain and was like all right i'm gonna climb this other mountain which yeah i gotta give it to him okay five five albums five number one songs from an album is not a failure to me man in the mirror let me alone just on the cd but wasn't on the cassette it was yeah it was a yeah but what i'm saying is it didn't jam bad though yeah it's it's weird it's success but it's still not my favorite but what i'm saying is that

that people either like will do the opposite or they'll try to top it. But there's also middle ground and people never explore the middle ground. I guess for you, what would the opposite of Hamilton be? Like a one-man play or Shakespeare in the park or? I don't know. You know, one of my favorite books growing up. The vices is like a Latino fences. I'm going to write a play for every decade.

Oh, God, I wish. No, the, one of my favorite books in high school was, because I remember, I was like a film guy, was Rebel Without a Crew by Robert Rodriguez, who directed Desperado and directed Sin City. And his whole thing was like, he made his first movie for $8,000. He maxed out all his credit cards. He sold his blood and was like a lab rat in like experiments to make the money for this.

Yeah, clinical trial. Oh, Mara Rachi? Like, that's how he paid for his first movie. And he shot out of Mexico. And he did El Mariachi on $8,000. Ah. Damn. And so he wrote this book about like, stop waiting for Hollywood.

Just make your own shit. Like that was really influential to me. Like, stop waiting for anybody. Make your own shit. And he said, after I made desperado, everyone was waiting for the sophomore slump. And everyone is waiting for the sophomore slump. So just do so much different shit that no one knows what your sophomore project is.

And that's basically what I've been trying to do. Like he did a segment for four rooms. You remember four rooms? Yeah. Tim Rock joint. He did an episode for like a show on showtime. Like he just did like lots of different shit. And that's kind of like I was like, okay, I'm not going to go right into writing another musical after Hamilton.

I'm just going to go do lots of different shit until I amass enough ideas. And I have ideas for stuff I want to write that is the length of Hamilton. But it doesn't tell me what form it wants. to be. Like, remember, I thought Hamilton was going to be a mixtape. Like, I thought I was going to be doing, like, a Prince Among Thieves. Like, that's what Hamilton was in my head. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. It was like, it was a concept album. I'd have rappers play the founders.

I just didn't know any rappers yet. Like, I had to write the show to get there. And so I have ideas for full-length things, but I don't know whether they're movies or whether they're concepts or whether they're shows. But there are... I'm going to say, because you know rappers now, so that whole concept album thing is like a thing. Of course, it can't be Hamilton, but it can be something. Yeah, and yeah. So I have an idea for something that I think could be a concept album and could be a play,

but until I start, like, really writing it, I'm not going to know what it is. It'll tell me what it is. All right, so you're just playing exceeds. Yeah. Okay, the fun stuff. Gun to your head. What are the five albums? And they can't, no greatest hits, man.

Okay. That's why I hate that Rolling Stones list. It's like, come on. You can't put James Brown Star Time in there. That's every James Brown record. Right. Gun to your head. Five records that you are forced to listen to in solitary confinement for years straight.

Weird. Five records. Professor Neon, Wesleyan University. Professor Neon. My college. Bill Sherman's on. Good highlight, man. Yeah.

Bizarre ride to the far side. Yes. Yes. I probably listen to that more than any other hip-on album. I'm team lab cab. I think me and Just Blaze might be the only two dudes. It's 19. Yes.

Wait, Ponza, you born in 78? I was born 78. You're 78, motherfucker. It's so contrary, man. I'm team black cabin, man. If you were born in 76. I have a theory about that. Okay.

Let's hear. 73 to 78. The reason y'all so contrary is because your formative Star Wars movies, Empire Strikes Back. And it is the one with the sad ending and it taught a generation like, so it's like this. And like, imagine seeing Empire Strikes Back and being like, and that's the end of the movie. Wow. Well, that's an interesting theory.

I've never seen any Star Wars movie. I was about to say he's so contrary. But that's, no, I've never seen Star Wars. And that's 78 people were more than most contrary. Go ahead. I bought 78 people more return to Jedi, but I know Fonte is out of that regardless. So I can see bizarre right,

because I feel like that's the album that birthed Eminem. That's what I told you. What? Hmm. All right, Lynn, number two. Oh, no, the zaniness of Farsai. That's, that's Eminem all day. Everything's okay.

If that album drops and you're 14 years old and you hear passing me by and you're like, oh, shit. And the remix. The letter came back three days later. Return to Sender. Okay. So Farsai. I mean, other fish on the burp.

I mean, just like, it is the actual. Yeah, I love that album. I fuck with LabCab, too. It's just that album was, it's like takes up this much real estate in my brain. I just, I don't like records that I learned early. Pass the pipe. We almost, we almost made a mistake on Illadelf. Thank you.

We were going to do like industry complaint songs. the industry oh yeah yeah industry complaint songs and my A&R is like no like no one cares that the record label doesn't care about you the perils of fame album right that was very much a title is about like the record label and I learned early like never make songs about the record label so I learned early you know all right number two what's your number two number two is an album that I remember more as like a vinyl in my dad's collection. It's a Ruben Blade's album called Buscando America, Looking for America. And it was, it's one of those moments where like,

you know, you just, you dance to your parents' shit when you're a kid, right? You're like, oh, fuck what they're dancing, dancing. And then you listen, and then like, you learn enough Spanish to understand the lyrics and you go, this is about capitalism.

Or like, this is about the perils of, like, religious fanaticism. Like, there's deep shit in the lyrics of those songs. but I experienced it as like a kid dancing to it and then I had a whole other like thing when I was old enough to appreciate it. So that's an album I can fuck with forever. He bounced out.

I saw all the kids that don't relate him to the guy from the Predator movies. Predator 2 with Danny Glover. Yes. Yes, he was Predator 2. And then another generation who just knows him as a guy on the Walking Dead sequel.

And like the governor of the wild. Yes, he is fear. He's the father. Oh my God. Yes. And he's a guy. He's like, our Bob Dylan, and then, like, white kids know him as Predator, too. Right.

It's hilarious. My daddy put me on to who he really was. That's some New York shit. But anyway, yeah, that's some New York shit. Because he was, yeah, he was the 70s Salsa. He wrote all the best songs of Sonsa and the 70s. Him and Willie Coleman. Number three.

Number three. I got to pick a theater album at some point, right? But I've listened to Rent so many times. I don't think I would stay in it. It would probably be. It probably would be something I don't know as well, like Gershwin's Porgy and Bess or, like, any Sondheim show, like, those are so fucking dense. You will hear new shit in it every time. Listening to Sondheim, like, arrangement-wise is like listening to pun lyrically.

Like, you will get a new shit every time you hear it. So probably like Sweeney Todd. I think Sweeney Todd is a good number three. And it's also two discs, so I'm kind of cheating. Do you play, Lynn? You talk about, like, just composition, like, do you play keys or, you know? I play piano just well enough to write my shit. And barely.

When I started working with Bill Will appreciate this, it used to be like four tracks. Like I would play the bass here and the piano here, and it was like terrible. And then finally, like, most of Heights got written on garage band and Hamilton got written on logic. Like, I just like, anything that's the distance between my brain and like these keys.

And to the point where it's part of the editing process, like a melody has to survive my shitty chops. Right. That's facts. There are some great takes. If you can hear the melody through the rough stages, then you got some. Yeah, yeah. There are composers who have no distance between their brain and their hands.

I'm just not one of those guys. It's got to survive my chops. And then sometimes I find shit along the way while I'm trying to get it out of my head. Okay. Number four songs in the key life. I could listen to that forever and be very, very happy. I could pick any Stevie I could pick intervisions

I could you know like Yeah we were talking there on Twitter about like I think like talking book being better than songs And I was like I'm not mad I think it's I play I play talking book more I mean songs is a master's

But talking book I kind of come back to more Yeah Again two discs so I'm cheating All right I'm just trying to get more music Into this little desert island situation You've got me into That's funny

I picked the least liked one, which is Fulfillness. Oh, it's like a I think plants. Plants, that's what I thought he was going to say. Because he artsy. Well, if I'm stuck with the record for a year,

I don't know. I just have a better. Although, here's a question. Why hasn't there been a great Stevie jukebox musical? I've imagined it many times. Like, you start with Village, Ghetto Land. Yeah, yeah.

And like you enter the world. Oh, okay. And then it's, let me tell you. Oh, he's the truth. that's another meeting you are we can talk about that off like you can talk about that off like sort of like the Prince musical

God trust me I'm telling me one day I'll explain to you All right your last one My last one I think you say some pun record at this point

I mean I still fuck with capital punishment Like it's the one I mean that's not the only one everything else after is sort of like hell yeah baby you fuck with yeah baby yo you know what on my Spotify playlist

on my Spotify playlist I don't know why I first of all I love 100% I love I should not love that nigger shit but I love it I love I'm laughing at you now I don't even remember these songs.

I got a Puerto Rican song. I'm laughing at you now. There's like five songs that I really, really, really like. And this is on the year, this on the year, baby. On yeah, baby. Oh, yeah, there's five joins. I really like, I like the sketches. My favorite part of the sketches, and I know he was doing Scarface

was when the guy's laughing during the shooting scene, like, thanks, point. And he's like, when he gets shot. Packing him back and back. Yeah, back and back, back. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, it's Mark.

You'll appreciate this, Lynn. Pun, well, not really. Pun was supposed to be on adrenaline on things fall apart. What? Is there a devil somewhere? That's one of the great hip-hop. He was on his way. Like, it's just the conversation with pun to talk to him is a,

another language because he'll call the studio like, Hey, what's up, man? How you doing? What, six o'clock? It's like talking to the Charlie Brown teacher. That's how it is to talk to big pun. Like he was on his, adrenaline should have been a four-man operation with pun, Beanie, Tariq, and Malik,

and pun but he never made it so wow you've seen that footage of it's like pun DMX

and they're all sitting in that booth and they're daring each other to freestyle and like actually like no written no written it's a great little video

really oh yeah yeah and pun spit some shit he definitely spit on someone else's album and it's fantastic yeah

Oh, yeah, Land. I forgot. Oh, your spot in the, oh, God, just watch it the night. The Walter Mercado joint. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Kind of explain to us and kind of tell, you know, our viewers, what Walter Mercado met to the, what he meant to the Latino communities.

The way I try to explain it to, like, Americans who didn't grow up with Walter Mercado, is like, imagine Bob Ross told you your future. Pretty good. Like imagine Bob Ross came into your home each day and was like, Virgo, it's going to be okay. You have a fortune coming down the lane and then like Pisces. And so like I remember most of my child, I remember running into a room being loud and my grandmother being like,

shut the fuck up, waiting for Sagittarius, like waiting for Walter McAlli to tell her what was going to happen her day. And I would sit through Sagittarius because Capricorn was after that. So was he a radio personality? No, he was a TV personality. Also remember Bob Imagine Bob Ross tells you your horoscope And he dresses like Liberacee

When he's feeling in his spicy He dresses like Tammy Fay Baker Yeah He was this He was incredibly flamboyant At a time, you know Like machismo in Latin culture is like Off the charts, toxic sometimes

But because Walter was so positive And he told us our future He was just a fixture in our homes Wow I remember him I never knew his name My Christmas present every year to my grandmother was the Almanette, Walter Melcado, like, next year, almanac to tell her what she could expect in the coming year. And one of the producers of the doc is friends with Utkarsh, who's in Freestyle of Supreme with us.

So I got a text from Utkars being like, hey, would you be interested in being in a Walter Melkado? And I wrote, yes. Like, I didn't let him finish because I got a chance to meet him. I could feel my ancestors doing backflips that I was meeting the guy who told them their future every day. And I feel really grateful. I was doing Hamilton-Po-Po-Rico at the time,

so I got like an afternoon with him. He read me my chart. He read me my kids' charts. Like he looked up my birthday and was like, oh, well, this was happening in this moon and this was like, of course you were going to go into writing. Like, it was just like, I was like crying.

So much like it's not in the movie of me. Just like, holy shit. And then he passed away, like, within the year. So I feel, I feel extra grateful for that moment because it was like, you know, that was, that was like, that's as close as I've gotten to, like, meeting a celebrity that was on my TV every day. I was a great documentary, man. You know, I knew who he was, but I didn't know his story. And I thought that was, it was really good. I think he was.

Yeah, they did a great job. I want to watch. I got a couple because I still got to watch Sam for Luis, too. So it's, I'm going to come out on Tuesday. That's not out yet. Oh, good. Okay. Okay, but it'll be out by the time.

This episode plays. See, yeah, right. And then there's the freestyle doc, which Quest is in and is like, what's crazy about that is they got footage of us at our peak, like at baked beans era, substitute teaching era. Like, the guy who directed that movie started following us with a camera in 2005. So, wait, this movie is about you guys and y'all beginnings. It's about, like, the 15 years of freestyle when, like, we were. I was a substitute teacher, Bill was working MTV,

and then we were making up funny raps for people in Scotland. Where is this going to be? How do you guys? That's on Hulu. Okay. How do you stay sharp? Because I now realize one of the things about being in quarantining is that us doing the tonight show every night, at least when we were doing it before quarantining,

I mean, Tarek spending two hours every day rapping so that keeps his mind sharp which explains like the amount of fire that he's, which is why the hot 97th album is probably that 10 minute freestyle because I've watched that more times than any album of any hip-hop album of the past few years. So how do you say? Because the thing is as a freestyler,

you're like, you're a super on point. I've never seen you fall or slip yet. and in doing freestyle the amount of times I've seen it like the amount of pressure that it takes to make that happen like how often every day are you guys especially now in quarantining

like how often every day you guys even practicing your quarantine happened we were doing our Broadway run and we were doing an eight show week and that was incredible I wasn't doing eight shows I was doing two or three a week but still that was enough my learning curve with freestyle was oh if you try to plan your rhymes you're going to fall the fuck on your face like that's that that was my learning curve because when we started doing it I was trying to be cute

and I was like all right I got two boot punch lines that if if I can't think of anything I'll say these funny punch lines and then like I would get out on stage I would fuck up the punch lines and then be terrible and like and so you learned the only answers to just be truly open and truly present. And then, like, you get enough reps that, like, it becomes another language filter. Like, oh, no, everything I'm going to say is going to rhyme, but I'm going to express this. I'm going to express this. And it will just rhyme because I've had enough reps and I know how to do it.

And if you get, like, chess enough on it, you can know where you're going and build your way there. Which Tarek's amazing. At every time we play Wheel of Freestyle, I love hearing what his first line is because I already know he knows what his last line is and he's building to it. He builds backwards. He builds backwards. But he builds backwards in real time. And that's what I try to do too.

Of like, I'm going to end on dinosaur. So now I got to think of three rhymes for dinosaur. And I got to do it as I go. And he's the best in the world at it. But that's what I try to do in the shows. And that's my own little discipline for myself. Like Anthony will literally build to rhyme and say the opposite just to surprise himself. I don't think Anthony's rhyme three times.

Like he just likes to fucking zig. and Zag, Udkarsh is like, UtK is just like, he hits these pockets where like he's got 20 syllables and then he can't stop. Like everyone kind of approaches it differently, which I think also works well. Like my technique wouldn't work for Anthony and UTKs wouldn't work for me, but we all kind of meet in the middle because we're all just trying to be present and listen to each other and like say what comes out. Right.

Yeah, I think like pre-styling for MCs, that's like, DJing for producers. Like, I think just being in that, coming up and that, if you came up in battle culture or like cyphal culture, like freestyle, that definitely, you know, when you talk about earlier, when you were saying they don't really teach rapping as songwriting or they don't think of it as songwriting.

That's something that's always kind of been a thing for me and just that you're, I tell all emcees, anybody want to rap for me, whatever. I'm like, no, please don't rap for me. I don't hear it. But you got four bars to close me. Like that's my home. You got,

you got four bars to close me. I know I can tell within four bars, if somebody really got some shit or not, because you got a, you have to pretty much a, you know, grab the list of out of throat in that beginning. And you got to close strong.

You know what I mean? And the middle, you can, you know, the middle got to be strong too, but that opening that closing, like, you got to bring that motherfucker home.

Lynn, I just want to ask you, it's interesting because we were talking about, like, as you're growing, your father is growing, and we know that this documentary is coming out

about his life. And it's interesting because it's, it's an interesting responsibility put on your shoulders. It feels like at this time in your life, as a New Yoreican man, as a Puerto Rican man. Same thing with this, it's like an activism versus capitalism kind of line. Like, I just wanted you to speak on it for a second

and speak on this weight that has kind of been thrusted upon you. And you've taken on a lot voluntarily in that sense. Yeah, you know, I used to use Twitter to just like live tweet, Buffy and shit like everybody else on Twitter. You can't do that when you have three million people following it. It's an article. Like every tweet's a press release. So your relationship to that changes.

But also like I try to treat the causes I get involved in the same way I treat creative impulses of like what's the shit that doesn't leave you alone? Like what is the thing that like you went to bed thinking about it and you woke up and you're like, this is so fucked up. I can't stop thinking about it. It hurts my heart. It hurts my stomach. like I'm going to get involved in some way. And I tried because you could go on Twitter all day and see all the things going on in the world

and drown in it, like and drown in how much need there is in the world, but you can only listen to the shit that doesn't leave you alone. And so I try to do that. And then I think the biggest lesson I got from my dad because I'm the mellowest, laziest guy in my family by a lot. But the median is so high

because my dad is such an overachiever that like even falling below the media and I still get a lot of shit done. You still get pretty good, right? Yeah. Like, but I am, I'm the slow poke. I'm the one who like, like, just want, you know, I'm very happy that we have all successfully skipped

watching this first debate live. Man, let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Listen, I'm about to DVR. I don't know what you're saying. It's an addiction. Yeah, I can't, I can't. I can't watch that same.

I'm so glad I have a date with you guys. I know what. Yeah. Fuck this. I know what's what. I'm not going to be like, you know, this guy's got some good ideas. But even with that, then, the pressure is on because everybody's pandering to the Latin vote, which I found it's so interesting because there's so many countries that you just put under an umbrella

with different classes and shit. But like, even with that for you, it's even pressure in this election year in a way, right, for you to speak up, say things. Where do we, you know? Yeah, but the thing that my dad and I are always on about is like that we're not a monolith and you have to talk to us with nuance. Don't be playing medangay at the fucking Texas. for Biden thing.

They're fucking with not Daniel music down there. Oh, God. You know, like... Despe Cedar ones one got me. But it's it's as simple as speaking to our issues and speak like, and really understanding them. And the

you know, the fact that we've never had a president more hostile to Latinos than this president. And he told us who he was the moment he came down the elevator and it was like, Mexicans are rape. They're not sending over the rapists and killers. And like they're sending over the rapists and killers. And like they went down to Latinos for Trump.

And it went downhill from there. Like that was his opening salvo and it went downhill from there. So, um, you know, I think, I mean, if you want to go down policies, we'll talk another hour. But like, I don't know, I'm sorry, but I don't know. You have to, you have to just, you know, speak to the issues that, that, that affect us. This motherfucker threw paper towels and did everything he could not to send aid to Puerto Rico. and what he did to Puerto Rico after Maria is exactly what he's doing to this country in this pandemic. He wasn't ready and then he lied about how not ready he was.

It happened on our island and then it happened in our country. You opened the door and I guess I have to ask one question. Every, you know, every culture has their group of people that are willingly ignorant to actual facts and truth. How easy do you think it will be to convince? as Laia mentioned there's a sizable population

of Latinos for Trump that you know feel as though he's right and he speaks for me and I'm actually shocked that a lot in

whatever my hip hopa I would expect it from you know the old uncle that you think about at Thanksgiving or at least that you know comedians joke about but is this

at all? Is this something that could be turned around or in your opinion in the next eight weeks? So much of it is just misinformation. You're trying to play fair with someone who lies as easy as breathing. And the fact that he throws around words like socialism and they're coming to get your this or coming to get your that, sometimes to populations that have fled countries where that real shit has happened, lies can take root. You know what I mean? Like, there's all manner of atrocities happening in insert Latin American countries here. And if Trump says they're going to do that here and you've just come from there,

that shit takes root. And I really think that misinformation is a big part of it. And the fact that in Spanish language, like, misinformation can spread even more wildly because, like, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, fact checkers of the Washington Post aren't listening to the Latin radio station, but the Latin radio station is spouting some right conspiracy. It goes unchecked. It just straight up goes unchecked.

And so, you know, to me, that's a big part of it is just like misinformation campaigns with vulnerable populations. And, you know, the larger part of it I can't speak to, like there's, you know, I can't know what goes on in that mindset because I'm certainly not. not of that mindset. Like I'm just seeing with my own eyes, the lies this guy is told. Like, with Puerto Rico alone,

like, he said only 16 people died. We know that thanks to mismanagement, it was closer to 4,000, but he got stuck at 16 and kept it moving. And just released the funds like a week ago, right? Right, right. And when you see him with the pandemic stuff and how unprepared he was and how much he downplayed it,

he will continue to say, but China, but China, like, it's like he gets the one fact in his head and he sticks to it. So, you know, I don't know the answer to turning around, but I know that misinformation is a big part of it. Misinformation that is just sticky enough to take hold. My last question. Unpaid Bill. Is there anything about Lynn that we haven't learned yet? I started with Lynn.

Now I'm ending with you. Felikudstein, I just saw that you replaced the name. It's a big show. I mean, there are many stories about Lynn that are fantastic. And, you know, maybe we could do a second episode and get into the real Lynn Menlover and we'll have the real Lynn sit down. I mean, yeah, no. What? What did you just say?

That was a word salad, Phil. He said that bourbon was good. I made fun of how you talk, but what did you just say? I don't know how to. answer this question. The answer is yes. There are many stories about Lynn that I can tell here, but there are none that will take the short amount of time we have left to coagulate. I just think it's dope, man. Now, I just think it's dope for y'all have been homies for all these years, you know, like 20 years for y'all to still be homies and still working together and, you know,

the heights that you've both achieved. I think that's just a great story, man. Is it a plan for this to be forever? Forever? Forever ever? Will you answer that question, well, Amir is the plan for you I'm like there's only three There's only two people in my life

Not related to me that I've known longer And you're actually one of them Which is scary as shit That's real though Kiss today, goodbye Wait, you see what I did for love? No, she's a post line movie Hey yo, Lynn

Did you have a common on 64? I only know the Patti LaBelle version Oh, yeah, Commodore 64. Okay, Jupiter landing. Yeah, dude. I used to watch Lynn play Tony Hawk skateboarder for like hours upon hours on the day.

I just got the remasters. We used to like over again. We used to watch Little Mermaid. We had a lot of weird times. Yeah, Burnout Dominator. That was a big game. Do you still game? Do you still game at all, Lynn?

Yeah, I just got the remastered Tony Hawk because that was, that was the game that got me back into games. Like, I started playing with that in college and then I never got off again. Remastered. I'm replaying Red Dead. too. Like, that's like an evening. I never opened red. It was just, it's so much game. I finished.

It's so much game. But once you start hunting bears, it's like you, you, you, Xbox? PS4. You PS4. Okay, I'm PS4, too. I just finished a couple of months ago, Ghost of Sashima. Oh, yeah, that shit is amazing. That shit is amazing.

My wife likes, like, she'll play Zelda forever. She will read every book in a room. Like the music nerdist. I just want to fight shit. I just want to fight shit and steal goes. Okay, if you just want to fight shit, there's a game.

It's on PS4. It's like 20 bucks. It was on Xbox, but now they made it for PS4 called Cuphead. Cuphead? Cuphead? Dude. I'm getting it.

It is like, I heard, like, I saw somebody in the form, they described it as cartoon Dark Souls. And it is the realest shit ever. Like, it is hard as fuck. It's super hard, but the animation style is in like that 1930. Tom and Jerry like rubber holes. My first date with my wife was

Grand Theft Auto San Andreas. That's how I got her to come to my house to play that with me. What? I used to play burnout revenge. I used to watch Lynn crash cars for like hours and hours. Yeah. I had no life. I don't think none of us had that. That was the best. Yeah.

Now we have best. Ladies and gentlemen, you asked for it. You got it. The four years overdue Lynn, Manuel, Miranda episode of Quest Love Supreme. We thank you very much for joining us. Yes. On behalf of Team Supreme,

Laia, Sugar Steve, Fon Tigolo, and Bills, Bill's, Bill's. That's right. Bayla Kudsteen, yes. That is your new name. That is your new name. It's the best name ever. Please call it on now.

There you go, boy. All right, this is Kuest Love signing off. We will see you next to go round. Thank you very much, Lynn. We appreciate it. Thanks, guys. All right. Questlove Supreme is a production

of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs

when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships

and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWA% on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. Before it was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.