The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Mic Murphy

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

Our guest is the founding member of one of the most legendary futuristic electro-funk duos, The System. Mic Murphy joins Team Supreme to talk about the club scene in New York at the end of the '70s and influencing multiple generations of artists. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. I'm from Raleigh, North Carolina, man. Are you serious? You kidding me? I'm living in Raleigh.

And the music starts. Right, hi, I don't record it now. I'm recording now. I was just excited. I thought Fonte got on the plane. should have known better. Oh, oh hell no, I ain't doing that. Come on. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Questlove Supreme. It was Questlove. With me is, of Team Supreme Fondigolo in a new location. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Came down to Charlotte. He gets some working for a couple days. And, um, yeah, bro. Yo, man, I had to, I meant to tell you too. I think I may be joining you. I ain't going as crazy.

is you going with it, but I've drastically cut down my meat intake. Oh, shit. There you go, bro. Like, like, drastically. I still, I mean, I still do my fish. I love, I can eat fish, like, every day of the week. Right. And I still do my, you know, my chicken.

I do, like, you know, chicken, but, like, beef, pork. Like, I think, yeah, that might. It might be a wrap. Damn, bro. We might make it to 70s. Just make sure you're replacing that iron. Just make sure you're replacing that iron with something. Damn.

Man, I'd be drinking metamusele in the morning. I feel old as shit. Keep doing joints loose. Man, listen. Keep that cholesterol down. Speaking of which, what's up, Sugar, Steve? How are you making it out? Oh, my God.

You're just talking about meat makes me want a steak. You know, I don't know. I do everything bad. So I might not make it to 70, but I love you all. We love you too, Steve. That was the final goodbye. Everything's okay. Glad to be with everybody here and looking forward to a great episode.

Everyone's fine. You just, you just recorded an album for your label. We recorded two full records in two days for David Murray was one of the records and Lange Land, a Norwegian guitarist, was another one. That's jMI recordings.com, everybody. Yes.

We joke about. We joke about Steve's newfound celebrity, but Steve has definitely done a lot of pivot work in the last few years developing, really just living in his dream. Like, you know, recording and putting out his, you know, after you collect every jazz record, I guess the next thing is you have to be. Start making them. Start, yeah, you're the new creed tailor. That's right. You know, the label started right around when this podcast started about five years ago. Well, Ray, right?

Ray angry. Five years old. You have a new background. You look like you're on a tour bus right now. I'm not. I'm in my new spot. Oh, you just have tour bus curtains. These are the good big drawings.

Come on now. They're nice. Oh, my thought. Well, from this, from this. This is way better than the paper with the paper clip. What's wrong? I just making fun of you. It just, it looks, it kind of looks like a tour bus.

Okay. Like, you know. The factory blinds they gave me at the new spot and I'm real happy to be at. Okay. Well, you're making out. Everything's fine. Oh, yeah. Living good.

The black is a neighborhood in Los Angeles. Hallelujah. Shout out to Estelle who took me around and showed me to good corner stores. I am living my best life. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, just be careful because a lot's going on in L.A. that, you know. Happening to very rich people, Amir, very rich people who have Rolex.

Why are you saying it to me? Like, why are you? Because everybody who tells me to watch out of L.A. Well, I'm being specific because people have said that to me a lot from outside L.A. And I don't think they understand that the people who are getting robbed are not in my tax. Are in Beverly Hills? Oh. It's like criminals just figured out rich people.

Yeah. So that's what we're doing. Okay. Well, okay, let's hear everyone's moving to a pivot. We now, you know, no, let me not even put that out there. Ladies and gentlemen, I will say that our guest today is the founding member of probably one of the most legendary futuristic electrofunk duos professionally and better known as the system. what made the system unique is the kind of space that they occupied at a time period in which new ideas and new concepts were happening in real time. And this is like the post-disco, Leroy Burgess era of Boogie, in which it was needed of a jolt.

You know, it was like New Wave was sort of coming in for a lot of the popbacks. And, you know, of course, Prince finally had control the will and made the entire world take notice of his vision. even made like Leon Silver's in the West Coast take note of his vision. Meanwhile, I'll say that in New York City, you know, club culture, dance culture, sort of reached a boil where hip-hop was slowly creeping into, we're dipping their toes in the water. And, you know, for the first time you're hearing songs with a little harder edge to it and R&B and funk. You know, acts were slowly dipping their toes in the water using like futuristic synth sounds

and harder drum programming. and, you know, and I feel that that particular pocket, this very influential duo occupied, let me just get him out of the way first. Please welcome to Questlove Supreme Mike Murphy of the system. Thank you, Mr. Yes, sir. Thank you, brother. Thank you, Questlove.

Thank you, fam. Wait, I wanted to know, because you occupy, there's a very specific period of New York City that I'm unaware of. Like we've had many guests that can sort of put me down with what was happening in Los Angeles between like 77 to 85. But for the first time, I think we're really going to dive into what R&B and what dance culture and what black music in general was going through in between, you know, 1980, 81, 82, 83, or 45. for those that weren't under the purple umbrella and for those that weren't directly doing hip hop, especially in New York City.

So, you know, thank you for doing this show, man. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate, brother. So you're speaking to us now from where? East Harlem, New York City, NYC. Okay, so you're still a Harlem resident? Yes, yes, I am.

Okay. Well, I grew up in Jamaica Queen, so I'm a 20-year transplant of East Harlem. Okay. Well, before we started taping, you were letting Fonte know that you two are from the same hood. Where did you, yeah, right? Yeah. I'm born and raised in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Wow. Yep. Crazy. The Morgans. Yeah, that's home. That's where I live. The Mawks. Yeah, we big.

We rolled deep down there. That's so dope. You know somebody in front of it? I'm sure I do. I went to Central. So I went to North Carolina Central. So that was where I came for school. And then in Raleigh, I mean, I moved to Raleigh in like, oh,

five but uh been there ever since but yeah man um it's you know cool city real it's going up like everywhere else like the rent and all the properties is going nuts but um but it's a beautiful city man that's what's up how long did you live there before you moved to new york oh i was i moved up here when i was a baby but every summer you know how mom do you're going to go on the uncle jessie you're going to your uncle jessies well the summer so i i did that till i was like 13 14 when she final was like, all right, okay, you know, because I started, you know, playing in bands and stuff and we were gigging a bunch and she was like, all right, I'm going to let you get some. Okay. Was it, were those good memories of having to go down south or was it always like,

man, I want to play with my friends in the summer up in New York? No, my cousins were friends. Bernard Fowler is my first cousin. What? Yeah, that's my first cousin. Of course. Ah, so is this the connection to Queens as well? Yeah, he's from Queens Bridge. And, you know, as kids, we were best friends running back and forth to each other's houses. Our mother, my father and his mother are brother and sister. So she was like my, she's my real auntie. And we spend weekends together hanging out, playing and stuff.

So we're tight. Wow. So he's your actual first cousin. He's my actual first cousin. Wow, that's incredible. All right. So for our listeners out there, like Bernard is pretty much. You know, who's the who of background singing?

You know, he's known for his work with the Rolling Stones. Yeah, and lead singers, and lead singers. He's definitely one of the absolute best. Yeah, I got to say the infamous House classic or Peach Boys, Don't Make Me Wait. Don't Make Me Wait. Don't make me wait. Yeah.

That's all Bernard, yep. Yeah. Not to mention, like, the work that he's done with Bill Aswell and Harvey Ham. And the Reese Lee departed. And everybody. Robbie Shakespeare, Slime, Robbie. Yeah. Wow.

Okay. Absolutely. So the question I usually start with, can you tell me what your first musical, your first musical memory was? You know, as a kid, my mother loved music. So we used to go to the Apollo all the time. And it was at a time when you could see five shows in one day. You could just sit there, hang out and watch all the shows. And so I did that a lot.

Those are my earliest, my earliest memories. You know, in music in the house, of course, the Jackson 5, who I emulated in my first band, and kind of, that's how I got my start. What did your mom do for work, Matt? My mother was a, no, my mother was a plan reader, engineer for Ma Bell, for Bell Telephone Company. And she was a rebel. Like she was the original liberated woman. She really was. Community leader.

And she used to give, back in the day, there were a lot of social groups that gave dances. So whenever they'd have a dance, of course, my little band, the Soul Shakers, we'd be like the floor show. So they would have like a well-known kind of orchestra. One was Ron Williams and the band of renown. So they would be the big band playing. and then we would come on and do like a Michael Jackson, James Brown, or show. It's interesting to hear normally a lot of our guests on this show.

If their formative years were in the 60s or 70s, nine times out of 10, secular music is taboo. But it sounds like, at least to hear, like, were your parents strict with music? You're not allowed to listen to any music but gospel or any of those things? No, I didn't have any of that. Pretty much, I mean, in my house, it was like,

Brooke Benton was king. You know, it's like that King, Cole was king. The smooth R&B lover, the love of boy singers. So I kind of grew up really actually loving Brooke Benton, those kind of classic songs with the strings, with the deep melodies and the deep lyrics. And that's kind of what I cut my teeth on. later it developed into more

more of the funky stuff. Okay. How many siblings do you have? Where do you fall in your family line? I'm firstborn. So I'm the oldest. How many? Of three.

Okay. So who's passing it down to you? How do you, because normally if most, I notice that most of people in music are usually the younger person, you know, there's always an older sibling that's passing the, the music down here. Listen to this.

This is James Brown. This is... Kind of nobody, but my aunt, Janice, you know, like I told you, my mother worked from Mar Bell. And my aunt Janice, who moved up from North Carolina, would keep me during the day.

And she could sing like Aretha Franklin. Real, real talk. But she would only sing in church. So during the day when my mother would be at work, she'd be like, Micah Owen is what she'd call me. Get up on the table and put on the show for me. And she'd put me on the table

and, you know, have me sing different songs, the Jackson Five particularly. And, you know, that's kind of where my love for music and performing came from, my Aunt Jenny. So I assume that at one of these concerts, you saw the Jackson Five perform? Like, would you say that that was, like, one of the more memorable concerts that you saw?

Oh, yeah. Well, there were a lot of young groups, the Five Stairs Steps, may have been the first group that I saw at the Apollo, of young guys. Right. And Black Ivory actually performed at the RKO on Jamaica Avenue in Queens.

Speaking of a lot of Burgess? Yep. Yep. Yep. When I saw them perform, I'm like, wow, I can do that. I can do that.

Because I don't, I think they're just slightly older than me. Right. And when I saw that they were able to perform and actually make a living at it, I was like, wow, I can do this. Were the stair steps actual musicians

in concert? because based on their albums, I know that it was studio musicians, but I know that Kenny Burk played. Kenny Burke played on stage. My memory doesn't serve me how well he played at that time, but he was definitely, he was definitely playing on stage back then at the Apollo. When did you start your, well, you talked about, as far as your musical development was concerned, was that a thing that school, encouraged, or did you, did you, get her on your own? No, I was really, I went to egghead schools. I was bused to schools and, you know, I was very much into. Magnet kid. Math and science, to be honest, I was really an egghead. But my best

friend, this, this kid, Robert Fontaine, he and my mother, Lorraine Fontaine and Shirley Austin, they could not be separated. And she was like, they dressed the same, they hung the same. So Rob was her child. So we became close. friends, even though he was a couple years older than me, he had a band. And of course, he didn't want to let me in the band because I was too young. I was like a little twerk. Um, but eventually two of the band members, especially the singer, they started getting into drugs and everything. And my mother's like, you should hear Michael sing. I'm telling you. You should hear him sing. And so I started singing with that band. And that's how I, you know, initially got my start

singing and performing. And the band was the soul shakers. And I don't know if you know Ronnie Drayton. You know that name? Yes. Ron, the late Ronnie Drayton, correct? Yes, the late Ronnie Graydon. Yes, indeed. He was a drummer in the band. Wait, isn't Ronnie related to Flav? To who?

Ah, yeah, William Drayton. Okay, I might be mistaken, because there's another Drayton that I met that used to work at Tower Records that is related to Flav. I know that Flav came from a large family, but... No, Ronnie's not related to Flav. No, no.

Well, we grew up two blocks from each other. He lived around the corner for me. And also growing up, he was kind of inspirational for us because he left the band as a drummer and said, I'm going to be a guitar player. I'm going to start playing guitar. We're like, well, don't you stick to drums because you're such a good drummer. But eventually, he kept going at it. He got a gig with the Chambers Brothers. And so they were going on the road. And we were, you know, we were kids and pro kids. And we would go around the corner and watch him being picked up by the band, the station wagon with his amps and everything. And we're like, wow, he's really, he's

really doing it. So he was an inspiration at all as well. It just hit me that Ron used to play with Nona Hendricks. That's right. He was really her band leader. Edwin Bird's song, Nona Hendrix. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's a legend. You know, very, very sad to see him pass. He was, at our age, he was like the most serious musician. I mean, I grew up around a lot of really talented funk bands like in my neighborhood in Jamaica Queens. Literally every other block there was a band. There was a funk band. Mother Knight, you know, Eddie

Murtines. Of course, the legendary Eddie Martinez. Yeah. Guitar store and Run the MCS. Rock box. Yeah, rock box, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They were one of our local bands. And we had some hell off funky bands back then. Where would these shows happen at high schools or gym?

Like, how, like give me a typical rundown of, okay, if you have a neighborhood band, one, where do you rehearse? Because I know that at least for the Midwest families with garages, you know, hence the term garage band, like, that's where bands are formed. But if you're in New York City and you form a band, first of all, where do you rehearse at? We're in Jamaica, Queens. Everybody had a garage and a basement. So you're either rehearsed in the basement or the garage. My, next door neighbor was Eddie Hazel's father, Eddie Hazel, Sr. What?

He lived next door to me. Wow. So the parliament back in the day would come and fool around on the backguard, you know, basically give parties. But his father, he did all the processes in the neighborhood, all hair processes. I'm not going to say, everyone in parliament could also do hair. Yeah. I forgot about that.

Put that lie in your hair, girl. Yeah. I'm saving that hair chapter until Amir get there. Because we got to talk about that. Wow. So that's crazy. Who else were your contemporaries growing up as far as like who you went to school with or other band people? Well, yeah, when I was in public school, it was really, you asked about how, where we would gig.

There were like five or six local. clubs. There was the club Ruby, the Linden Manor. There was, after Rochdale Village was built, there was a big concert venue there. Everybody would play it. There were a lot of clubs. There were a lot of bars, local bars, and they all had bands. I mean, we're talking before they realized, oh, we can just get a DJ to come in. You know, we could get rid of everybody would gig. There were bands like the Firebolts, who were really kind of the leaders for us local bands because they had it organized so they played they gigged every weekend like they always had shows for different cartilions and there were a lot of gigs back then and um when we were we were like the band under them

so we would sometimes be the opening act basically the floor show is this a thing where you can if you're that top band can you make a uh a nice living well first of all how old are you doing this period. I'm like 13, 14, 15. So you can go into a nightclub and do a show and it's not like 21 in older culture wasn't a thing yet or? My mother was a momager. And she, she was a beauty. So nobody said no to Shirley. So she would kind of, she was kind of book us on gigs. And there, like I said, during that era, everybody was a member of a social club. So there would be a Shinnecock, Rod and Gun Club, and they would give an annual event.

There might be the motorcycle. The Batback band was the official band for, like, the Lyndon Boulevard Biker Club. Really? They would all have event. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They rehearsed on Lyndon Boulevard, how far from where I grew up. I didn't know the fat back was from there. Okay.

Yeah, fatbackers from Lyndon Boulevard. You know, wiki-wacky for like 30 minutes. Yep. I've heard about their shows. So all these social clubs, they would have a contillion where they'd bring out the young ladies. There would be a lot of events you could play. You could really make a living. I mean, I was a kid, and I was, I'm making like $100 a weekend all the time.

And, you know, back in that era. That's a lot of money for a teenager, period. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Back then? What? At what point for you, at least, are you even considering making this a profession?

And I got to know, I know that the group Clear played a role in your life. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So I'm not there yet because I'm really, like I said, I'm an egghead. I'm going to Brooklyn Tech. I'm going to work for NASA. That's in my head. That's in my head.

That's what it was. I'm going to NASA. But I was in the band of Soul Shakers, and at some point we were like, let's try and see if we can get better. And a young lady named Lala, La Forrest Cope, who wrote, you give good love. Yeah.

The Lala. The Lala joined the band. So Lala changed a lot for me because she was, she was like the first female rebel who always said, well, why not? Why can't we get this? Why can't we do that? Why can't?

I was more like in pocket like, oh, come on, listen, we'll get it. Slow down, slow down. So once her energy came into the band, we were forever seeking the better drummer, the better bass player, the better guitar player, the better soundest, the better gig.

So she changed a lot for me, you know? Just so we can make it clear. I don't you mention it early, but I want to make it clear. For our listeners that don't know, Lalao wrote Whitney Houston's very, first single, you give good love. Produced back a sheet.

Yeah. We didn't want to admit we didn't know who Lala was, but we didn't. So thank you. No, no, Lala, you know, she made noise and she did some stuff with like full force and she she kind of made noise as a solo artist around like 86, 87, 88.

Anyway, sorry. Yep, yep. But part of her thing was she would write songs way back then. And I would kind of fool around with ideas as imitating other people's songs, but she was the first person I was around who would just sit at the piano

and make up a song and break your heart. And she was in the band, and we would do gigs, and she would sing songs like Gladys Night in the Gladys Night song, last train, what is it, last train. Midnight train to Georgia. I'm leaving, midnight, and she would tear the house down. She would do things like Billy Holiday.

She just had that soul and that soul, and that spirit that she would tear the house down with these songs. And songs like you give good love, she was writing those songs when she was 16. She was already right. She had written 10 of those by the time she was 16. So that kind of made me start noticing, you know, that, oh, this songwriting is a thing.

Songwriting is really a thing that you should be focusing on, particularly, you know, in the band thing. So moving on, we got into this band called Jack Sass, the Jack Sass band. Former members included, like, a lot of local talent in Jamaica, Queens, and really good musicians. So we really had to step up the bar a little bit. But our band, we were playing all over the East Coast. We would play the Jersey Shore. We would play Miami.

We would play Virginia, but we couldn't get a record deal. Okay. So along this time, this guy comes to town. We used to play this club uptown called The Cellar with this band, this band Kinky Fox.

I don't know if you know, Timmy Allen. They were, like they would play one weekend, we would play another weekend. So this guy, Fred Petrus, Little Macho Music, who produced and Change and BBQ.

He did change, right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he comes to town. I'm still deciding if I'm really going to do music. So he comes to town and he says, hey, I really like you guys. I want you to be, he had this record out called Peter Jacques Band, which was a huge hit in Europe. He's like, I want you guys to tour and pretend you're Peter Jacques Band. So we're like, okay, because he's going to pay us.

We're going to put it. Well, basically, we didn't record anything on the album. But we were going to perform to be the touring act of Peter Jacques Band, and we would be the artist. So that kind of fell apart, but then he called me one day and he said, hey, Murphy, I want you to introduce me to bands

in the city, all the best musicians, and I want you to work for me. I want you to work in my office. I'll teach you publishing. I'll teach you recording. I'll teach you everything. But just connect me with all the bands. And so I did, because I knew all of the musicians.

musicians, not, I didn't know all of the studio recording musicians, because in New York at the time, they were really, they kept it real tight. You couldn't even get, you couldn't get a session. You couldn't get to record anywhere. They had it on lock, Fonzie Thornton, um, Kala, they just, they had sessions, Yogi Horton, you know, that whole crew, they had the session world on lock. So a band like ours didn't stand a chance. But through, through my relationship with him, he actually did bring me in to run his office and I would hook him up with the musicians and do demos and I would go to the sessions when he was out of town make sure everybody was recording book the sessions learn about publishing and at that time it became real for me because I could connect my brain with the creative

part on how this can how this is a real business and how you can really you know how you can make things happen. Right. So that's when I started, yeah. That's when I started to think about music as a real profession for me. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter.

And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the in-crashire. and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's one thing I wanted to ask about your tenure

and your band when you were doing these club gigs. On an average, one, how long were you expected to perform at these shows and how big is the repertoire? Like, just in terms of, I understand like every band had to know the top 40. So you had to have Of course. So how does that work? Is it like every Friday you go to the local record store, you get all the 45s and you're like, okay, damn, we got to learn too how to try by the Commodores or like,

what's that process? Walk me through that process. At the point where we got serious, we were rehearsing four days a week. And we were, the shows, look, we went from being like a floor show band to actually having to hold on a club. and generally you'd be booked Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So that's five sets, three nights in a row. So you had to have, and also we were doing originals. Because at that point, we started figuring out how to manipulate our sound

and create a sound of our own. And Jack's ass, actually, it was a really killing band. I don't know if you know, Liz Chisholm was the bass player. She's one of the original female bass players in New York, Liz Chisholm. Omar Hakeem was early jazz. drummer in the band. Legendary. I mean, we were, we were, we were pretty serious.

Like, we were coming up on a funky rock thing. We were doing things like we were doing rare earth songs. We were doing, uh, we were just doing our own brand. We would, we would hit them with the top 40 hit, but we'd also hit them with something that's in the vein, like a song by war or, you know, we were coming off a little bit left of center, but it was really working. It was working. You mentioned Queens and also I wanted to know whether or not at the time

Was anyone like from the Jamaica Boys like in also in the sphere? I'm talking about like Bernard Wright, you know, Marcus Miller, all those cats. They also? All those cats are in the mix. Bernard Wright was in the junior firebolts. So the firebolts I mentioned earlier who had really gotten it down to a science where they were gigging all the time for weddings. So they created a spinoff called the Junior Fireballs. And Bernard was in the Junior Fireballs.

You're so popular, you have your own sequel. Yeah. All these bands were in the mix and all these bands were killing. Okay, so right now you led us to the point where you're learning the business. How are you getting talked into being a tour manager? And at what point are you entering Clear's life? Like, because I remember, like, it's weird that I know, like, intimate connections is a staple. But I'll admit that only after hip hop did I learn intimate connections?

Because I always knew clear because of, like, their early part in 1980, where they had the song called Winners. Winners never quit. Yeah. Right. I'm around them this whole time. So I'm in Brooklyn Tech High School. And Dennis King is the chief master. engineering engineer at Atlantic Studios, right?

On 59th Street. So he was someone who took interest in my early band, Jack S. And actually was the first person to ever take us into the recording studio. So he worked at Atlantic, and I would come home, and I would stop at Atlantic Studios, and he lived near me in Queens, and I would ride home with him. But that stop entailed waiting around in Atlantic Studios, Columbus Circle, I'm telling you, I saw everybody record, Aretha, I saw the stones come through there, Ricky Lee Jones.

I mean, like, everybody who was anybody, I'm talking the days when, you know, all the, actually the cats, a lot of the cats from Philly, the guitar player and the bass player, Bochate Jones, was his name, the keyboard player. They would all be around there. Steve, Krober, and Booker T. Yep. So I got to kind of blend in through that. and also view recording sessions and learn sessions.

So Dennis at the time was working with the band Clear, who was from Baltimore, and they had one small record that didn't do a lot, but by the time the second record came, they were in demand to tour. So he obviously couldn't go on the road because he was a mastering engineer at Atlantic, and he knew I knew the road because I had taken my band everywhere,

and I knew all the details, booking hotels, all of that. So he asked me to be their road manager. So the first tour, well, the first big tour I get to go on is Prince, Rick James, and Clear. Wow. Clear was the opening act for the... Clear was the opening act. I thought I died and went to heaven. I thought I died and went to heaven, brother.

What was that like? So, oh, it's crazy. I mean, I have actually pictures from the tour of Prince when he was doing. the jock strap and the three-step ladder thing. I have pictures back to age, Rick Jane, all, I have pictures of all the madness.

And he kind of, Rick had kind of a crush on the clear girl. So, you know, he liked him as the opening act. And we did, we must have done like 15 dates. And I'm telling you, Prince, please tell us what that's what it was like. Prince killed. It was so funny because

killed Rick. Oh. He killed Rick every single city. He killed him. First they started out. You know, it's the opening act. You might have six feet of depth. Then they peel you off.

And the next act, you know, have 12 feet of depth. They peel him off. And then Rick has his whole big show, right? Right. But Prince, Prince had those stairs. And he had like a little light rig that said, Prince. And I'm telling you, they were kicking ass and taking names.

Every single gig. It was crazy. It was crazy. It was crazy. It was crazy. It was. And I'm standing there with my mouth open because in a way

my band Jack Sass. We had this guitar player, Vic Vaughn. I hope he hears this. Vic Vaughn was as good as Prince. He was good a guitar player and as good a singer. But he didn't have that,

you know, that extra thing that makes you want to stick to the business. He ended up moving to the Midwest, South Dakota somewhere. But he was kind of the New York City embodiment of Prince. So when I saw Prince, I was like, wow. And it also made me kind of decide, you know what, I can do my own. I can come up with my own thing.

That's different than all of this, but I could do my own thing. So that's when kind of my road management dream turned into, you know, I want to create something. What were touring conditions like? Whoa, I'm so glad you're a tour manager because it's like weird. Y'all know everything. Yeah, exactly. Because the musicians. Y'all put the fires out.

Sort of, you know, have very selective memory. But if you're touring in 1980, you know, a band like Clear, are you guys in a 15-passenger van? Are you guys in a tour bus status yet? What kind of hotels are you in? Like, I want to know, like, the boring stuff. Like, what is that like in 1980? It was right. It was correct.

Al Heyman was the tour promoter. So everything was... Say no more. You don't have to worry about the money. You just had to be there on time. I always book connections. I don't even know they're still in business connection bus service. You know, we had a budget for hotel rooms.

Hotels were cheap back then. You could get decent hotels for $100. It was smooth and correct. It was smooth. At the height of it, Every per diem was solid I was handling the money Everything was smooth

At the peak I had three bands on tour together I had clear change and BBQ All on the road at the same time And I was a little twerk I was a little twerp But I knew I knew how to keep You had the right job man Because I always wanted to know about those groups

And never In the case in the case of change Of which I believe it was Jimmy Jam that revealed to me that change was really, well, in name, the two Italian guys. Yeah, Maro Malavasi. Who were they in concert? How did that work? No, they never showed up to concert.

They were studio musicians and brilliant ones. They had an amazing sound, and Michael Brower would engineer most of the projects. It was all the best suit, Luther Vangos, who I also worked for on the road. You did? I think it was like, yeah, I think if you saw it early, shows. Yeah. I was a guy with the fog machine and I was the guy with the spotlight and I was paid Luther, Luther paid his guys. It was crazy. I had to, listen, I love working for Luther so much. And that was another point where I was like, wow, I love, I could, I want to entertain again. But I did one tour

where I drove from New York City to Los Angeles on his first tour, all down through Texas, myself and one other road guys. So I've done, I've worn all the hats. I've worn like the roadie hat. I've worn the driving truck hat, hold the spotlight. I've worn all of hats. This is my favorite interview ever, man. Any of them know about your talent?

Mick, did anybody know? Did anybody know? Did you know? No, they didn't. They didn't know. Let me tell you a great story. We're on the road in South Carolina somewhere and Clear, we're touring with Clear.

And David and I had made the record in times of passion. We made it like one weekend. Actually, like in one day, 24 hours. We made the record, went to studio, got it out. I knew a couple people at Atlantic because I had worked with Dennis and I had worked with Clear and they always said to me, you know, because I was a good-looking young fella. You know, like, hey, if you ever make a record or something,

why don't you bring it to me, let me hear it? So we made in times of passion in one day, I took it to Atlantic. They signed it the same day. But I didn't make any noise because it was working for, clear and I don't know if you know Woody, Woody was a little bit of a kind of jealous guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So we're on the road in South Carolina doing an outdoor date and I'm carrying, you know SVT bass amps?

I've, you know those SVT amp-amp. I'm carrying an SVT base cabinet to put below the bus and David's on the tour bus and he's telling, make our songs on the radio. Our songs on the radio. In time the passion was playing on the radio. Oh, that's go. That's how everyone found out that you were. Yep.

A singer. So can you, well, since you already, you brought the great David Frank into the picture, can you explain the story? Am I to believe? And he told me this once. Was Madonna originally supposed to be in the system and you replaced her? Yeah, so what happened was we were all, we all were, we all kind of circulated around the music building on 8th Avenue and 36th, whatever. Okay.

You know, all the bands rehearsed there, people would kind of share recording spaces like you'd have a space and you'd have it from two to five and someone else would have it from five to nine. So I got, I got a backup because I got Dave in, I got Dave in Clear. I got on the keyboard player and clear. So what happened was Dennis King was putting together the tour for Clear and they didn't have a keyboard player. So one night he took me to this club uptown and he said, yeah, come with me. I want you to see this singer. You know, I want you to see this singer and then tell me what you think. So we go to this club.

I didn't think much of the singer and I said to him, hey, that keyboard player is really good. I mean, you should maybe you should consider him from Clear. But they were playing kind of like Steely Dan style. You know, it wasn't, it was nothing like the electro that you come to know David as, at the end of the player you come to. So he did that tour. This was not the Rick James tour. It was the next tour.

He did that tour. And when I, when I would work, I guess I would sing sometimes, or I would sing along to songs. Not making anything of it or paying attention. But one day, he had cut this track that he'd been working on because he got a DSX, a DMX, and he got an Oberheim, which he actually kind of bought it with another one of the musicians

in the music building. So out of the blue, he calls me and he says, hey, I wrote this song and Madonna was supposed to sing it, but Steve Bray wants to put guitar and they want to put this on it and that. And I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that.

So he was like, why don't you come to the loft and listen to it? So I go to his shared loft in the music building. I don't know what I'm expecting because I've only heard him play in the clear mode, which is kind of jazzy soul with some funk, basically. And that's not what I wanted to do either. I wanted to do something completely different musically than that.

So I get there, and he says, well, you know, listen to it. Tell me what you think. He hits the button, and it's the track of In Times of Passion. I died and went to heaven because it was exactly what I had been thinking of because I was thinking if, what if you put Rick James and craftwork together, what would that sound like? And when he hit, when he hit that button, I was like, this is, this is it. You know, this is what I've been looking for.

I hadn't, yep, he said, well, yeah, Madonna was going to, and I knew Madonna, too, there's a story there too. Same. She said, yeah, Madonna. We'll take it. Okay, well, when I was in the band, when I was in Jack Sass, we used to play at the Queens College Rath Skeller. She would play on Wednesdays, and my band would play on Thursdays.

So I knew her from that. So you know how you go and check the competition out. I'd go on to check her out then. And we also knew each other around the music. McRampy, all you want to do is, like, McGrathie, that's how you want. She was like that. She was like, you know, I knew she had the attitude, but I didn't, you know, I didn't know how far she was going to take it.

So anyway, David said, yeah, Madonna was going to record it, but she backed out at the last minute. Can you record it? And I said, well, what was the title she had? He said, crimes of passion. He said, okay, let me see what I can come up with. And I was just singing along with the track, kind of humming and kind of crimes of passion kind of falling with him.

He was like, that's great, that's great. Now go home and write the song. I'll pick you up in the morning. We'll go to the studio and record it. I'm like, write the song. Right. Right tonight. And we're going to record it tomorrow.

So, you know, I had had the dream of what I wanted to sound like. But I had no idea what I wanted to say. So somehow I stayed up all night. David came to pick me at my mother's house in Queens at like 7 o'clock in the morning. We go to the studio in Long Island. We recorded all day. We laid down the parts of singing all the leads, all the backgrounds. We mix it.

And the next morning, when he drops me up at my mother's house, I had a big sound system in the basement because I always owned the band's PA. So I put the cassette tape in. And I played it. And I was like, this is, this is the one. If you don't do something with this, you're never going to do anything. So I immediately, like at 9 o'clock, I called Dennis King. Hey, Dennis, can you, can you cut a couple acetates of this thing I cut yesterday?

So he said, sure. So I went to the studio, Atlantic. He cut three acetates of which I have, I have two of them now. Wow. Okay. And I went and I went to the two people who I knew in the record business who had, said to me, if you ever, if you ever come up with anything, let me know. One was Jim Delahant, who worked for Atlantic Records with Jerry Greenberg.

Okay. And the other one was, was RFC records. And they, you know, they were big because they had Gino Socio and they had, they had a lot of really popping electoral soul records. Socio. So I went to. Geno socio. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yep. Yep. Yep. So I went. Yeah, he was the president. But at the time, he was president of Atlanta. He had just stepped down from being the president of Atlantic. So he was the president of Atlantic.

He was the president of Atlantic, yes. But when, but he was forming his own label. And I think he had only, he had signed, he had only signed one act so far. So I take the record to Jim Delahant. And I said, Jim just cut this. He plays like 30 seconds of it. And he says, hold on a second. And he disappears through a door.

and out comes Jerry Greenberg. My jaw's on the ground because Jerry is the cheese. I mean, he's the man. He comes out, he kind of looks at me, sits in his chair, turns around to face the speakers. I'm looking at the back of his head. He listens to like 30 seconds of it, and he turns around, he says, you got yourself a record deal.

Just like that. One day. One day. It was that easy. Well, yeah. At that moment, at that moment. And the record came out and it caught a fire. It really did.

It caught a fire. So this wasn't a case where you had to, like, a relationship with Larry Levan or someone to, like, you'll play my thing, test it out in the crowd and see how it works. So you just instantly had an end with the brass at Atlantic. Absolutely. And thank God, Frankie Crocker, love the record. Frankie Crocker loved the record. He ran it into the ground.

And, you know, Frankie was a DJ at the time. If he liked something, he's playing it. He doesn't care what the trend is. He doesn't care what anybody says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he played that record to death. And then, you know, as far as the system, the rest is history. 2%.

That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical

and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships,

and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You said something really interesting about your interaction with David Frank. And what you said was he pressed a button. So can you?

explain to me at the time your willingness to embrace kind of a new culture, which is program, you know, at the age of, you know, sort of 79, 80 new drum machines are being invented, new synthesizers are being, which I could imagine could be intimidating. Because the thing is, is that there's a watershed moment for black music after the sort of post-disco fallout, where a lot of these bands that were foundational, name them, like brass construction, mass production. Mass production. Any band with like eight niggas on the cover.

Exactly. You just know what it is. Confliction. No, cameo. Same thing. No, real talk, I was already there. Because I was already listening to craft work. I was listening to Yazoo.

the erythmix. I was eating up. I was eating up every record that was coming out of the UK. Of course. Early Gary Newman. Of course. Of course.

The Thompson. I was there already. I mean, I was eating off of soul and funk, but I was already there because of what you're saying, I had been on the road with brass of 15 pieces.

And I'm like, how do these guys make money? Ow! You know, it's like, this is a mix. This makes no sense to me. I don't get the math here. And, you know, there were a lot of,

there were a lot of brass construction like bands, phasio. All these bands from the Midwest. I was like, I can't. How? We've interviewed everybody. So I was, I was, we've interviewed all those bands. I was just laughing.

Yeah, we, we've interviewed. And the thing is, though, is because, you know, even though, in 80, like, when, like, terms, like, new ways. were being invented and all those things. I'd never truly understood or got a chance to ask a guest on the show, like, is this a Titanic sync or swim moment for you? Like, do you learn new technology or do you just, you know, defiantly say, no, I'm going to keep my horn section in these Fender Roads and this clabinet?

Let me tell you, one of the reasons why I love Jackass. So we always had great drummers, but a lot of times they were nowhere to be found when it was time to do. We had this cat, Lino Reyes, I don't know if you know who he is, Lino Ray. He ended up playing with Rick James, but we had a couple gigs lined up and he just didn't show up. And I had bought a rolling drum machine like a little mini 808. I was like, come on, guys, we can use this for the gig. Let's just do the gig. And they laughed me out of rehearsal.

They laughed me out of rehearsal. But I was like, all right, you know, somebody's working on this. And I'd already been geared up, you know, reading NME out of the UK and, like you said, Gary Newman, all these bands in my image. I was already dressing new wave and I was always thinking new wave. But I didn't know how to create it on my own with the musicians that I had around me. So I was already playing with technology and drum machines and all that kind of stuff when I met Dave. Can I just ask a question about radio?

Because you mentioned that, like, Frankie Crocker popped off your, popped you off on radio. And I'm curious, since you mentioned a new wave, like, so what happens after that? How do they decide, okay, we're going to continue to service these black radio stations? We're going to service the pop radio stations. Like, how does that, what happens after Frankie? Response, the response of the people calling in. What is that? Actually, when that record first played, you know who M-2-May is, right?

Yes. Oh, yes. He had a show. Yeah. So M-2-May, like two days later, M-2-May called and said, man, I heard your record and I had to pull onto the side of the road outside of the Midtown Tunnel. What are you doing? I'm doing a session now.

He was doing juicy fruit. He was recording that at the time. And he invited David and I to play on that session. because he wanted that. Yeah, we're, we're, we're, we told us that. I forgot. Yeah. He said that he revealed.

Yeah. He told us this. He does sound familiar. We went, yeah, we went and played on that session. And we started getting, we started getting a lot more calls, like from the UK, come to the UK, produce this artist and groups in, and, you know, in, in, in America also, hey, producers, can you give us, give us some of that, that system funk? So we started doing pretty much right out of the box.

So they never put you in a radio box. So you would never just in the Frankie Crocker and urban box. Well, we, you know, everybody starts in the urban box. But once you start breaking out, don't forget, we had, you know, after the results of that record starting to take off like that, I had another meeting with Jerry. And he was like, you guys want to do a 12 inch. And because of what I had learned with Petrus, I was like, now we want to do an album. Well, what would you give us to do a 12 inch? And he gave us a number.

And I was like, give us double that. We'll do an album. Now, we had already been, we had already been writing songs. Like, we had already been working on songs. So basically, our process in recording was we would get together and maybe spend a couple hours. David might have some ideas he's working on. We'd do an arrangement. I'd work on a vocal.

I'd sing a melody. And, you know, we basically had seven songs for the album already. So it was basically, we'd go into the studio, record all the parts. He had pre-recorded. I don't want people to think that pressing a button means you're just pressing a button and something's coming out that's been pre-recorded. There's a lot. That song in times of passion, if you ever listen to it, he's using an OB8.

He made four different keyboard sections on the instrument. Yeah, I was going to say, was Midi a thing, Beckman? Yes, Middy was a thing. Midi was just becoming the thing. Because I always wanted to know, like, yeah, you guys had intricate arrangements, especially on that first record. And I was trying to figure out, like, are you programming this in real time,

or is this MIDI, like, is MIDI culture in 83? I never knew when MIDI came, so. No, he's playing, he's playing in real time, but as you know, you can either sequence it or you can let it play in real time. So he's recording it. He's really actually, David is a great physical player, like great.

So he was, he divided the keyboards into different sections, so there might be one section, of course, in the lower end. the bass, another section might be a pad, another section might be a little squeaky thing, which you could change programs while you're recording, and it would record the program changes. So those sounds like, is him basically pressing different program buttons, and he had the drum machine. So you have, you know, you could have six, seven, eight parts would play back automatically, you know.

And none of this was intimidating at all? No, because after we, when we did in times of passion, I kind of knew how the system could work and how we could take it to another level with the instrument. Because basically you had, you were basically, it was a digital recording. You know, without tape, you could record all the songs except for the vocals because they had nothing at that time where you could actually record the vocals and still be in sync with everything. So being someone who had played in bands, five shows a night, I could hit it on a dime. Like every gig, the harmonies all out. Before I get into sweat and you're in my system, there's one thing I always wanted to know.

You know, at this time also, like hip hop is also finding its legs and developing. And, you know, pretty much, I guess the modus operandi of hip hop was kind of like, okay, there's no more music lessons in school. So we got to figure out how to make music. Ah, we'll make hip hop. And, you know, I'm certain that you're growing up and, and, you know, are a firsthand witness to this culture as it's starting. How did that not call you and you still maintain, like, singing and traditional R&B and funk? Like, you could, yeah, you've done rap on your records.

And I got to ask you about that, too, but that has to be. No, not really. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, if you listen to some of our stuff, those beats are actually imitating some of the hip-hop that was coming around. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Why didn't you just- Africa Bambata? Because I thought there was a place for melodics and storytelling in the way I could. I wasn't a rapper. I wasn't a rapper. And I thought there was still a place for the context of what I was doing over these bombastic beats that would still work. And there were other guys who were just

doing it so much better. And I just had to remain kind of authentic to what the system is. That was what I was leading into, because the thing is, is that, you know, the kind of the genre of freestyle, you know, the kind of Stevie Bish. Shannon.

Yeah, Planet Rockish, Mantronic, sort of 808 lead, breakdancing music, which is clearly more on the hip-hop side of the fence then, you know, there's some other guys. Like, I don't know their names. Like, the guy that's saying, like, Yo Little Brother or Nolan Thomas.

Nolan Thomas. How do you know that, Fonte? I'm in a group called Little Brother. Oh, damn. I totally forgot. Nuclearous jam on it. That was a no. Yeah, or even, like, the street dance guy.

I forget his name. I'm in a band. I forget his name. But, yeah, like, however, it's, it's like, the particular lane that you guys occupied, even though it has the ingredients, like I know like the DMX was sort of the secret weapons. So you guys weren't using a lind drum

and you weren't using an 808. Yet, I almost feel like, you know, between what Prince was developing, which was more purple print, whatever I call it purple music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the freestyle stuff that was more closer to Shan, you know, you're like the Shannon freestyle

breakdancy nucleus stuff. You guys were closer to New Jack swing to me minus the GoGo Overtures. No, no, no, no. I don't mean that. What I'm saying is the seeds, like your beats were hard enough to wrap over.

And it's kind of a space that Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis weren't occupying just yet because they were in 80E territory. But, What I wanted to know is, like, how, like, as far as you, like, going to nightclubs and whatnot, like, are you guys saying to yourself, like, yo, we got to compete with these loud-ass drums and... No, but did you hear Baptize the Beat ever? Baptize the Beat, yeah, the Beat Street sounds right. Our record, yeah, our record baptized the beat.

That was that off-kilter. We were doing it. We just were doing it our way. And we were listening to everything that was going on. You know, my lesson was always be different. Just stay to course and be different. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-P-Cent on the I-R-E-R-Rash. My Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some. some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black. black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I have a Prince question.

Has anyone played you his version of, you're in my system? Yeah, I've heard it. Yes. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's mostly line and him kind of... Okay, so in light of in light of the um the Beatles documentary that you know is on Disney now the get back documentary

which I you know I feel is 100% fascinating people not baptized in music will say that it might be a little excessive for nine hours of watching them try to make a record however love it I think that's a very important documentary only in the fact that you truly get to see how records get made which, in the case of the Beatles, it seems like they're two default go-to places whenever they get stuck for an idea. Like, Paul will tend to go back to earlier Beatles songs. So he'll go back to, you know, he'll start singing lovely read, a meet or made. Right. He'll go back to that.

And John Lennon's go-to thing is either Little Richard or Chuck Barry. Like every three seconds, he's like, wop by. Babbel-lub-lap-lap-a-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-and-boo. And the thing is, is that when you're writing songs, you have to do, you know, I've gone on record to say, like, you know, DeAngelo and I would do entire Prince albums. And then one song will spark an idea. Like, wait, whoa, keep on doing that again. And then you morph into another song. So in the case of Prince, I always wondered and obsessed over the fact that when he's creating music, like, is he aware of other music at the time?

or is he just in his own private bubble in which, you know, he's just alone, isolated, and coming up with his brilliant stuff? Or is he actually aware of what black music is doing and then creating his own thing? And kind of, you know, I finally got my answer in hearing.

So, you know, I, you know, after he died, then suddenly like just a whole mountain load of Prince, sound checks and mainly like his sound checks to me like tell the best story of his creativity because he'll riff on a line for five hours in a row before it's lunch breaking so there's a moment there's a moment where kind of at the tail end of the 1999 rehearsals before they go on the road you know they pretty much they play you know karaoke and yeah yeah for them But the reason why, you know, people often ask, like, well, why didn't he learn the song? I think the whole idea is not to learn the songs or learn the changes.

Like, you learn one part of it. And hopefully if you've repeated enough, then it becomes something else. And there's a moment where you clearly, like, in this 40-minute version of your and my system, he will eventually morph that into what we know as the bird. but it starts. I find it fascinating that once I spend a year just listening to those sound checks, then I realized like, oh, so he listens to modern radio and then learns it and then tries to unlearn it and morph it into his music.

Like, I mean, to know what he morphed into, I know back then it probably wasn't obvious that he was going to be king or like a god in music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, I'm certain that it has to feel somewhat like validating that you're definitely one of the pegs that helped him climb to a hit, which is, you know, the bird for the time.

Yeah, no, it feels good. I mean, if you're trying to get around to how David and I, right, I don't do that at all with David. So our process is more, David thinks more like he's Beethoven. I'm not, I'm being, I'm being honest with you. Based on his people, I believe you. Yeah, he's thinking, yeah, does it fit into the context of what's going on now in music?

No, that's kind of my job to edit that music together. Because sometimes you hear long landscapes of some of the things we have or what they became, there's modulations and then there's time. So I kind of, I'll inspire him when he thinks and ideas no good. Like he played, you're in my system for me, the baseline. Because we were working on the album, I would go. We'd spend two, three hours writing songs because we both had to do other gigs to survive. And that was one I did.

He was like, I don't know. What do you think? I don't like, stop. I'm like, stop. Yes, yes, that baseline. I'm like, no. stop, give it to me. So a lot of times it would be like, what he thinks is the chorus, I think is the verse. You'll have a B section. Maybe he thinks that's the A section, but I will edit it

together, even back then from the beginning, I'll edit it together and move things around to make it be what I hear as not commercial, but something that I could sing over and somebody else could sing over, you know, people ain't singing over modulations and people ain't singing over, you know, so I will edit into a piece and I'll send it back to him and say, hey, try this. And then we'll take it a step further. We'll like, oh, yeah, I never thought of that. We'll take, no, that's not, he'll be like, no, that's not the chorus, that's the verb. So I'm like, let me, give me a minute.

Let me ride this out for you. Let me get sexy on you. Let me show you. And then you will come up with a year in my system. So that's kind of how it works. And that's kind of how it's worked throughout our. career. We never, I don't listen to anything else and suggest, hey, we need something that sounds like this. Okay, so he may have 10 ideas on a cassette and send them to me, just little pieces.

Right. And I'll say, I like this piece, this piece, and that piece. Let's work on these, and we'll work on it. I'll be like, we need a B section. Or we need a chorus. We need the chorus to hit more, and we'll work on that and we'll mold it. And slowly but surely, I'm saying slowly or surely, but sometimes only within an hour or two hours will have the shape and the form of a song. Wait a minute, I'm so glad I'm talking to you right now because there's two questions. I've been dying, dying to ask you or Frank,

and I can't believe that this is the moment. First of all, one of the secret sauces in the group, in my opinion, was always, you've got to please tell me about the great Paul Pesco on guitar. Next, what David Williams is to Michael Jackson, you know, David Williams has probably been the most consistent, steady thing in Michael, like not even Michael Jackson is consistent and steady through his career, through, you know, creativity, physicality, whatever.

David Williams is almost the most consistent, the sound of his guitar from like that line in Billy Jean, to want to be starting something. Like the sound of that loud pluck guitar, I think next to David Williams, Paul Pesco has one of the most distinctive act sounds. Like he's, well, speaking of Madonna, he's that work on, I think Lucky Star, that's him. Yeah, he's on a lot of that stuff. Oh, he's the, the, the, ah, CNC music factory. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. He's on a lot of stuff. Hall of notes, like adult education, all that. Tell me about Paul Pesco. Like, I never heard any stories about him. Yeah. So Paul is just a wonderful, wonderful guy.

We, this is for you, is Paul Pesco. I don't know if you know our song, This is for you. Uh-huh. This is for you. He's the guy. He's the guy, really him and David, they would get together and cook up some things. This is for you as one.

I want to make you feel good. That's Paul and David cooking up that, that Plectrum on. I want to make you feel good, the lines. Yes. He's basically like a line and a Kachinka guy, but also he's very cordy. He knows his cords. He knows how to create atmosphere and mood. Just a brilliant guy.

I love the guy. I love the way he plays. I love the way he thinks. Okay. My second question. When, you know, your first record comes out when I, I'm 12. And I

swore to God, I swore up and down, because I swear that's your voice I'm hearing. I swore up and down, there was a local hit, well, I don't know if it's a local hit or a local group, New York group. I need to know, did you have anything to do? There was a song that you used to always play in Philadelphia.

It's the name of the song, it's not attitude. It's a song called We Got the Juice. Do you know the song? Yeah, of course I know. We produced attitude as our group. We created, we did a jam in Lewis. We did a jam in Lewis. We created that group.

You fly. Bernard's singing on that. I'm singing Lala, Chris Kellow. That's us, basically. You're, you always yell shit on your records. You don't need to fight. Yeah, that's us.

When I was a kid, I always thought that was the system. And someone corrected me at a record store once, and I never, you know, I forgot the name of the song. But I always swore that we got the juice was like the follow-up. So that was Bernard Followers Group? No, well, that was, if that, look, I was following the Fred Petrus model. You have a band.

You have a band, the system. And then you can expand that sound to another use, kind of change. the attitude of it and create a whole other bank of songs. We wrote all the Cindy Mizell sings on it, who was someone who sang a lot of, yeah, she sings on it. Lisa Fisher sings on it. Lala sings on it. Bernard Fowler sings on it.

It was just our way to spread the juice. But it was clearly a, that song could have been the next single on the system album. So obviously you're saying you're creating. your, not your competition, sort of like Prince of the Time, like you had to grow your own craft. Yeah, exactly. To be honest, yeah.

That's what we were doing. Exactly what my, that was my idea. I found out recently that Charlie XX finally admitted to me that, what's the name of the, the idiom song that's, uh, uh,

I did the threthes in the favorites and you were going. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't care. I love it. Yeah, yep. I love that song. Yeah, Charlie XEX basically admitted to me that that group never existed. They just found two models to sing that song. Front the band.

Yeah, but she was more coming from the place where she felt that the song was so cartoony that no one would take her serious as an artist. So the compromise was, we'll still release the song, but we'll do it under, like, it won't be a Charlie X's record. I get it now. So did you just feel that we got the juice wasn't, like serious enough for the system, but it was still a good song that worked? No, well, we had, I think we had the system record out then, and it was still climbing,

and we were still touring it, and I really took a page out of Prince's book with the time, because actually I saw, I saw Prince at the Ritz, and the time was the opening act. When I know it was Prince's band, they had on these black robe hoodie costumes. Right. You couldn't see their faces. So they were the band playing. And I was like, wow, we could do something like that in New York. We could, like, I could come up with another group.

We have enough musicians around. That was really the thinking, to be real honest with you. So was that song also your version of The Times Wild and Loose? I always felt the lyrics were like derivative of Wild and Loose. Like, that was your version of it. You know, I didn't, I really didn't listen to the time that much, except 777-93-11. That was, that was my joint back then. Okay.

That was my joint. No, Frankie Crocka had this saying on the radio, we got the juice. So I knew we could come up with something using that, that he would play it. And he did, and it spread. It spread. It just. So how was, how was touring for you guys? when the album takes off?

Well, I mean, that's, if I have any regrets, I kind of regret that we didn't turn the touring thing into a bigger thing. Because when the records took off, we had calls to produce records in the UK. We had called, we produced a lot of Howard Johnson, Nick and Valerie Simpson. What did you work on?

Nick and Val? Yeah. It comes with a package. You know that song? We did like three songs in that album. Okay. I think we're the only people ever produced to produce them. We did, God, we produced a lot of records.

And I think that was an error for what we could have done, you know, from the Live Avenue. So we did some big tours. We did Marvin Gay's tour. That was a big tour. We did ready for the world. You open for Marvin Gay? The Midnight Left Tour? That's correct, yes.

Can you feel like? Wait, was it you guys in imagination? Well, we did in the UK, we did do some dates with imagination also because they were kind of a similar, we were in a similar vibe. So he wanted somebody really contemporary to open? Yeah, and we had, I don't, I'm not sure what, did we have, don't disturb this group at that time? What do you know is that? No, that was 87. This is you're in my system.

This is like 83, 84. So it's probably an experiment record in swel. Yeah, and it also may have been Alhaman, too, because, you know, I want a neat, neat concert, show up on time, do the gig, get on, get off, easy turnaround, no big nine-piece horn band. You know, we fit the bill in a lot of ways because we travel light. But that's kind of my one regret that we didn't really build up what we could do live with the system. 2%.

That is the number of people who take the stairs. when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical

and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits. the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye says, that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you're performing live, because the. albums are so have very distinctive like electronic sounds how and you know also going off these prints rehearsals which i know he had to sort of turn serious miracles to get the sound of the studio to duplicate that live like how easy is it to do that stuff live now that was easy look we have we have a keyboard player chris kellow i don't know if

We know who he is, but he's a phenomenal. Now, he wrote, he, he's the one that did all the arranges for Diane Warren, but he was a young kid. Oh, man. He was like maybe 14 or 15. When his mom, when I asked his mom, can you let him come on the road with us? She said, I'm putting him in. Wait, he was that young?

Maybe he was 16. Maybe. Maybe. Him and Bernard Wright were arch rivals in that area of Queens. They were both like idiots who vaunt. genius keyboard players, but all that 16th note, and he could do all of that stuff. So we really didn't have live, both him and David.

David, very dexterous, both hands, Keith forward, Chris, very dexterous, Paul. That was, that was not the hard part. Hard part was kind of convincing David to maybe add a drummer or add, you know what I mean, add that other component that would allow us to have that push and pull that you know you can only get with a live band. Those hits, those accents.

You can only get that with a live band, you know, and have to be playing with live bands. I know you need that. And also it was very compelling all these production offers, and, you know, you kind of just write the songs, you get to publishing, you get the production fee. You know, it's, you're on the road, you're spending, spending, spending, spending.

You know what I'm saying? It was like that kind of balance of, you know, being away from home and... Right. I have a this is my night question. Of course, you know, you and David are, you're brought aboard by the great, I always mess up his name.

This guy's my hero, Arif Martin. Arif Martin. Yeah, Atlantic house producer and, you know, average white band. He produced Shaka Khan's first, like, six solo records. And, you know, it was kind of a big deal when Shaka's I Feel for You album came out in which, you know, this is clearly

them acknowledging the power of hip hop and where music is going. So it's a less jazzy record and more leaning towards the future. But there's a question I always had about this is my night. And this leads to a, I don't know if the grace period has passed

that I can actually say the name of this particular Thursday night institutional comedy show that all of America religiously watched all the 80s. But there's a moment in that particular black comedy show on NBC at 8 o'clock on Thursday.

What? Yes, they came up before family ties. So there's an iconic episode. There's an iconic episode where the youngest daughter, the brood, has a sleepover. and you know what one of the one of the kids that are having a sleepover is is Alicia Keys so there's there's there's a really funny cool moment that connects you guys with this episode in which kind of uh just randomly call these two kids Theo and Denise maybe yeah yeah maybe yeah where they are um having a quickie like dance party with the kids and And they're dancing to a version of This Is My Night that is not the album version of This Is My Night.

And I make fun of Alicia Keys because she's the only kid in this group. If you YouTube it, Rudy Sleepover, like she's the only kid that clearly has two left feet in the scene. It's funny, but it might assume that before that song was submitted to Shaka that you guys demoed. it or because that version of This Is My Night is not the version from Saka Khan, but it's clearly like a different. So I just wanted to know like, I got to hear it, but we demo, to be honest, we demo every song. We never go in cold and record. So we demoed. So the way that came about, we were recording at Atlantic Studios. Our reef was in studio A. We were in Studio B, the hallway studio. And we were working on Don't Disturb this groove. And he,

came and asked, hey, you guys have anything for Shaka? And we worked on it like overnight, the next day, we turned it into him, and he was like, yeah, we're going to record it. But he also, don't disturb this groove. If you know the song, in the middle section, there's a female, right? Yeah. So we played him, don't disturb this group, because we respected him. We respect him so much.

And he said, all you need to do is add the girl. Add the girl in the middle. That's all. And you have a smash. You have a smash. So we added the girl in the middle and we had a smash. And she was talking about the, he was talking about the middle part, the, in the hook. The, all I need is going to be in you.

No, no, no, no. We had that already. We had that. Oh, okay. Close the door and turn up on the middle. Yeah, yeah. Got you, gotcha, got you. We had that hook already.

We had everything but the middle. We didn't have that, but he said, Ed the girl, added girl in the middle. Who was the girl on that? Who was the girl singing that part? We had Audrey Wheeler a son. me myzel singing in the chorus and wait argy willer from uh uh dun dun dun unlimited touch argy will yeah yeah yeah she's sending back on a lot of our stuff you can't just skip that fact she's legendary b j nelson that's that's bj in the solo section that's my girl i love you bj yeah bj sang the

the middle eight um orjue wheeler cindy i think sang with me on the hook or maybe we're was just Audrey and BJ on the chorus hook. Don't disturb. BJ sang the lead in the middle of the call and response. Gotcha. What did you think of Michelle's cover of that? I love her sheet body that shit. So,

Michelle and they go cello. Michelle and Diego, so I co-produced her first album, the first three songs. I got shafted out of the credit. I was a vocal producer. Plantation lullabes? What?

Yeah. Dread, Dreadlocks, girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I produced that vocal. Damn, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What?

Tell me this story. Yeah, yeah, I got kind of shafted by the credit by someone who I brought up in the business and the game. Camson? I ended up game. Gamson, yes, I was thinking Gamson. No, not Gamson. Gamson's my man. Betts.

I got shafted. Ah, Andre Bitts. On the credit. Yeah, I got shafted on the credit. But, yeah, she acknowledged it. She said, when the song was released, she said, For those in the know, Mick Murphy co-produced, you know, my first, my first records.

I know she's about giving credits because she ain't get hers for Brian. Yep. I love, I love Michelle, love her from day one. Love everything she does, everything she touches. I'm just,

you know, I was so proud to actually, I, to that point, that was my proudest production moment, really honestly, because the whole record was so beautiful and just attitude. and, you know, I love her and everything she does.

Wow. Is there any other stuff you worked on that you, that we don't know? Yeah, I co-wrote Secret Garden from Madonna. I didn't get a proper credit on that either. Yeah, yep. So y'all did end up working together? Yes, yes, we did. And I wrote another song.

So I wrote the song, Dear Father, which she called me up when she was working on the album. Oh my God. She called me up. She said, Mc Murphy, Mc Murphy, I'm going to make you rich. You're going to be rich, Mc Murphy. The song didn't make it on the album. And Secret Garden, I played the instruments and the chords, too. I didn't get any credit, but, you know, life is life.

Man, another cat I wanted to ask you about from that era that was kind of moving and shaking, Shep Pettybone, did you guys ever have any Dillings working together? Yeah, well, he remixed a bunch of. of system cuts and I know David played in a bunch of his remixes. Okay. But he did remix a bunch of system songs at some point. Okay. Oh, can you please settle this once and for all?

All right. I recently found out that it wasn't you, but I will say that for the last 35 years, I would have put my life on the fact that you were the voice. voice. Soglo? Of Soul Glove. Shut up. Really? That was Chris. That was... Christopher Mack, yeah. Yeah, that was Chris.

We were really good friends. You know, we were real, we were real friends and we still, we still connect. That was Chris Max, yeah. So since we mentioned SoulGlo, can I ask you about the hair and the maintenance? Because by Don't Disturb this groove, it was... Yeah, I had, I had a, well, started my first, when I was... of my first girlfriends was a hairdresser. So she taught me early to maintain, and she would, like, she would print it and get it right. And it just, it just became like a vegetable that just kept growing. It took on the life of its own.

Some aquanette would help with, help with the. Nah, that damn. You know, I would tie it up at night. I would tie it up in night, like a bouffant. I love it. Like the girl, I sleep on a chair. Yes. You see, I sleep on the pillows.

right here just like like in Friday when she doesn't let her hair touch the bitch. Yep. Mick, do you remember when you, when y'all recorded,

I know the song, baptized a beat, but recording the scene for Beat Street. Do you remember anything about that day? What was that like? Yeah, very clearly.

Well, it was at, what's this club on 22nd Street? It was a roller skating rink. It was a roller skating rink. on 27th Street. And everybody was there, all these different acts. And I know we performed the song. And when we were done, they were like,

next in the edits, they said next. But I thought we had the slamming a song. I thought baptized the beat. And to this day, I think it's one of the most inventive songs. Lyrically, beat-wise, changes, the bridges, everything about it is, it's, it's, It's some fly shit for me. Y'all were definitely better than Andy be bad on that lot of.

You're going to make you sweat and wine. Andy be bad. Yeah, he was good. You can tell when they're playing this career, he knew like, yo, man. I'm just in and out. You're going to be out of your son. Poor guy never had a chance. Wow.

So, okay, can you, there's, the one thing I also wanted to know is how did the group dissolve after 89? And, you know, why didn't you guys sort of try to push it further past that point? So, let's see, we had, don't disturb this groove. There's a massive hit. We did big tours. The next record, rhythm and romance, I think we kind of went down the rabbit hole of the Teddy Riley style funk in our own version. I really think pretty much at that time we kind of run our course for where our heads were at right then in terms of we would either have to go really simpler, like really back to the basics, or I don't think we could get any big. in terms of the music, in terms of the chord and the layers

and the parts and the levels. And it had just, to my head, it had blown up into too much, to too much to digest. And David actually had started to get a lot more session work on his own. What is this? 1989, 1990. I'm kind of looking for a new direction.

I'm trying to think of something that's a little bit different. He had quite a bit of success in that era as a keyboard player and working and producing. And I was trying to find my own niche. I ended up going to L.A. in 1993 and forming a band with just, it was really like a summer camp, like a musical summer camp. We had all kind of gotten divorced or our, record deal it ended or we were trying to find ourselves with Andres Simone, Gardner Call, St. Paul Peterson, and myself. So we went there the summer of 1993. And actually that record just came out two weeks ago, the mighty soulmates.

It just came out. And we recorded like 24 songs. We recorded like 24 songs. And yeah. So we recorded actually A&M record, John McCle. plane kind of put us together because he was a friend from way back. He's the one that said, keep an eye on Prince. You know, once he loses that baby girl voice and starts singing in the full voice, he's going to be a monster. He's going to be a monster. And he turned us on kind of Jimmy and Terry. And he was really like a cohesive driving force. So I think he said, once you guys get together, do what you can do. So we hold up summer at Gardner Cole's house in Woodland Hills for like four or five months. We wrote literally, We wrote maybe more songs, but we finished 24, 25 songs.

Not to interrupt, but John McLean is one of the most elusive, hardest cats to get. He is our dream interview. Like, he's literally the common denominator of almost every other guest on this show. And he won't. And Mr. Griffin. Well, yeah, but, yeah, Dick, he has reasons. Yeah, he has reasons. Yeah, he can't make it.

But, you know, I know. Why is he such a mystery? He kind of, you know, I mean, I've spent time with him, like, over the court, because he really was a fan of the system. He really was. He put us together. He brought us to produce a couple acts, so we did a couple projects for him. But I would ride around with him in L.A.

and we would kind of talk music, and he would talk Michael Jack. He grew up with the Jackson family. His father, I think, was, I don't want to speak out of. out of line, but his father was in underground, under whatever, and LA. And, uh, but John always had a brilliant ear for music and a personality to put stuff together and just a sense of kind of what would work and who would work. He's always had that. So he brought us together.

We spent the summer together, wrote this record, and then the earthquake happened in January, and we kind of all splintered and all went our separate ways. I think John Chains labels or whatever and this record is set complete since 1994 so I was finally able to get

a deal for it with ADA Warner and the record just came out on December 3rd. Oh man wow that's music to my ears literally wow that's and over the course also Andre Simone and I have become brothers over the last

actually I met I met Andre on the Prince Rick James Clear tour. He was the only person in the band, because I'm, you know, I looked like a roadie. I'm basically a rodey. No one would look to me, no one would talk to me. But Andre and I connected on that tour, and we've remained friends ever since.

Okay. So you weren't in system mood yet. You were just one of the guys in as far as? Yeah, I was just one of the guys hanging around on the edge. I don't know what you do exactly. but you ain't you ain't you ain't an artist so you know you gets no love well that's beautiful man you know i just want to say man like i mean this this is definitely a dream interview like i've always wanted to talk to you or you know you or david either

or and this is one of the moments that you know definitely a highlight for me to get to nerd out and study your history um shout out to um hey bill who are here Shout out to Bill. Yeah, shout out, shout out to Bill. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. 100%. And I was going to say, too, man, like, don't disturb this groove is like one of my favorite

songs of all times. Like in any genre, I mean, you know, that song just when I was a kid and I would just hear it, like, you know, on the way, like, my mom taking me to school in the morning. You know what I mean? Like, that was just. It's still one of my favorite songs. Of all the 80s babies. I mean, they posted the video with Jay-Z just saying it in common in this casual language,

like, don't disturb this groove. Like, I kind of think it's like at least the top 10 for most 80 babies. No, it really might be. I mean, no, that that song is just an amazing record, man. Like, seriously, that's just perfection. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's, you know, what they said, it's just.

Yeah, there's a good story about that. There's a good story. We have time? Yeah, of your time. So when we would make records, generally the label, they just let us do what we do. They just, you know, you just turn it in. when you're done. So at this point, it's like we had done a system. We had done experiment. We had done the pleasure seekers. Now we're coming on Don't Disturb this group. The pleasure

seekers did, it made a lot of noise. So now it's time. They want, they want, they want payback. They want the money record. They need that big hit, the money record. So we knew David and I that Don't Disturb this groove was it. We knew. So you know you're going to A&R meeting. You're going to play all your shit, but you're going to save the best one for last, right? You're going to save the best one for last. So we start playing the songs in the album, we play everything, and now we're like, okay, we got one more to play for you. Hit play on the record. It plays for about a minute, a minute and a half, and Sylvia says, come on, baby, I know y'all got something, I know y'all got something else. What you got? What you got for me? Yes. So Merlin Bollon,

who was also, he was like really that, the EnR. Merlin Bob, wow. Yeah, Merlin Bob. Merlin Bob stood up and said, no, no, no, no, no. Just wait a second. Let's listen to that one more time. And they listened to it the second time. And she still didn't want to release this the first single.

But she said, all right, you know, if that's what you all, you know, if that's what you all want to do, I'm okay with it. But, you know, I think we are stronger. A.K.A. Y'all better be right about this shit. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. All right now.

Right, right. Got you all paranoid. Maybe I did something wrong. What was her comeback to you after it hit me? What was the comeback from Sylvia? No, there was no, there was no comeback. That record just went through the ceiling. Oh, I know.

I was wondering if she was like, y'all was right. I was no, no, no. We never got that. But that was kind of, I thought that was an interesting story about don't disturb this group. Hell yeah. Wow. So they didn't, but the label didn't believe in it until it, until they saw it hit and it went out.

Yeah, until they saw some recognition from some label out on the West Coast. I think in Washington State or something, there was some tastemaker label at the time. They said their phones were lightened up. So, you know, that one blew up. And I really believe it's one of our best. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. Yes, yes.

All right. So just before we sign off, any other secret projects? you've done that we don't know about? Come on, let's give you your flowers. I know, I've done a lot, but I don't know what I think, I think the Michelle and then Madonna stuff is kind of really what I'm, I'm kind of proud of stuff. That's legendary.

That's legendary. You have to do no more. You can drop the mic right there. No, but thank you very much. I appreciate you. Thank you for having me, man. I really appreciate you guys. Yeah, man.

Thank you for the music, well, for real. Yeah, yeah. I want to shout out to my brother, David Frank. We've been on this road since 1981, even earlier because he was in clear. My love for him, my love for his talent, my respect for him and him getting on board with all my crazy ideas and my crazy energy.

I got so much love for him. And we actually, we have a record on the griddle right now that's being mixed. in LA. Yes. Yes. I love it. It's a new system record.

Being mixed by Tom Lloyd Algae and Jimmy Douglas. Ooh, okay. Songs are finished. And Jimmy Douglas. Senator Jimmy D? Yeah. Yes.

Yes. Oh, you're not fucking, you're not missing. Okay. No, we're not, we're not playing. But, you know, we need the right place, the right home to get it out in this new world.

But it's, I think it's going to be a sensational record. As you're doing, I promise this. my last question. Are you, are you aware of the sort of the phase of like throwback that, that sound that you guys

helped create like the, from groups like Tuxedo or up in Canada, there's what's the A-TRAC's name? Oh, Chromeo. And we're not, we're not throwback but the foreign exchange. I mean, me and my brother yeah, oh, no doubt. We are very much inspired by

y'all, for real. I was going to say, are you against like oftentimes people say like no let's push forward let's push forward but I swear there's just a generation of people

that are starving for like authentic like pulling out the DMX drum machine pulling out the Oberheim synthesizer that sort of thing are you guys going back

to square one with us we for the most part yes but we're down with you quest you got an idea brother I just say you guys We'll make it real, real simple and basic. I mean, that's what we're about. That's what we're trying to get you right now.

This might be a mission for Zoe and Fonticchio. Hey, man. I mean, I'm listening. I mean, listen. Hey, bro, say the word. He said shit. He's your man. He's an open for all.

He's your man. I will do the documentary on it. I promise. Yep. Ears are open. Wow. That's beautiful. Make it happen to me.

Whoa. Once again, thank you very much for joining us. Shooka Steve, anything? Any... No, thank you for your... Thank you for your time and for your music, Michael. Thank you.

Thank you for having me. All right. We'll talk to you later. Peace work. Okay. Yeah, we good. All right. Peace. Much Love Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio.

For more podcasts from Iheart Radio, visit the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%.

I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO.% on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

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And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio.

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