The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Monica Lynch Pt. 2

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Women's History Month at Questlove Supreme continues with part two of the Monica Lynch episode. The former A&R-turned-president of Tommy Boy Records shares vivid memories surrounding Naughty By Nature, Club Nouveau, Queen Latifah, and RuPaul. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. So, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Quest Love Supreme. We are here this morning or this afternoon, as I'm Pete Bill has already corrected me. We're welcome.

we normally do our episodes at nighttime. So this is one of the rare moments where we're doing a daytime episode. We attempted to do a daytime episode with Will Smith. But I thought Will was trying to pull Mariah. And I thought it was 1 a.m. in the morning. I didn't realize we were doing it in the afternoon. So, you know. So, yeah, daytime Quest Love Supreme should be very interesting.

So, you know, at the time when we were talking to our guest, Monica Lynch, I didn't realize. Of course, I knew every potential QLS episode could possibly delve into Jimmy Jam territory. Every time we refer to Jimmy Jam, it's usually to the fact that, you know,

that that particular episode was, what, six and a half hours, I believe? Half an hour. Yeah, six and a half hours. With Monica,

you could take any one of the acts that you discover, and that could be a whole episode by itself. Exactly. So, you have a 10 of those. So, you know,

lately we've been, um, since our new home at iHeart, we kind of crammed our show down to normal. You know, when we first started, I think our standard was to be a three-hour episode. I realize that sometimes a person's story arc goes over 90 minutes,

and I guess towards the end of that episode, I didn't want to just skim over casual moments in history. So our guest today was very kind to oblige us, a part two, kind of a first in our in our show usually we just you know do an entire show for four hours and then you might run the risk of the ire of say hall of notes who were clearly running out of gas after his his eyes said what is this done because it better be soon you know you couldn't even see his eyes but they still said that shit QLS fans are going to be so angry

because like I like you know I like to build up from the beginning of their lives to the of their thing and I really didn't even get the nerd out on kind of the glory Darrell yeah the glory beer of Darrell I was like yeah so I can't go for that so anyway you got a solo record out now I think you know somebody just told us that they had to go who was recently somebody was just like yo I got the go John notes John notes pulled to George Clinton all right so y'all have fun I'm out my dinner's right yeah with Darrell Hall went wow this interview is long we're like time to go let's do you We gotta go.

That was funny. There's some people that are guests on the show that are fans of the show that know that we nerd out on stuff. But, you know, a lot of times, like Stephen Stout was another example where he was just shocked that we wanted to know the, the banal minutia of his career. Like, you imagine Steve Stout doing an entire interview. Did we even mention the puffy bottle situation at all? No. Yeah, we did. We got into it.

Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, but it was like, you know, if that were drink champs, you know, that would have been Norrie's first question, you know. So how many stitches did you get? But all that to say is we're very grateful for our guest today, Monica Lynch, president of Tommy Boy Records, and arguably one of the most successful, I guess, storied labels, not even hip-hop labels because a lot of their success came outside of hip-hop. You can tell I just got done listening to.

I've been nerd now on what it happened was, so I feel like open my equal now, like the way that I'm asking questions. Anyway, I know, way to cross-promote other. their other platforms. I spread the love. Anyway, Monica Lynch, thank you very much for for obliging us a round two. Oh, man, thanks. It's great to be back because, you know, like I was telling your crew, I've been hearing from everyone now. Kids I used to babysit for I said, yo, you're in West Love Supreme. I can't believe it. You're legit now. Thank you. Thank you so much.

You give us the credibility. We thank you for that. And this is the first time that a guest can actually come back on the show and tell us about the feedback because we get such a quick turnaround. This is dope. I like that. All right. I like that.

So Monica, so when we kind of last left the previous episode, we kind of put the pump the brakes on signing De La and really not sensing that there was going to be a part to, you know, again, as I said, I was skimming through a lot of questions. But now that I have a little more time on my hands, I kind of want to ask one more question. So, you know, with the problems, with the problems of having, well, we discussed with Planet Rock, at least,

the problems of having massive demand and very little staff. And knowing, you know, your history, you guys were sort of churning out not just street cred records, but actual pop hits like Tender Love and Lean on Me. You told the Tender Love story, but can you kind of speak on how you guys connected with J King of Club Nubo? de facto manager of Timex Social Club. I always felt like Club Nouveau was a quick response group

to the imploding of Timex Social Club with having such a massive hit. And with that group, I felt there was a precursor to what Diddy became because Jay King clearly looked out of place on stage as, okay, that guy's clearly the CEO, the label trying to promote himself with an actual group of musicians. But can you talk about how that whole story came to be? Yeah, thank you.

You know, Timex Social Club was one of those hits that came out of the West Coast, and not just the West Coast, Sacramento of all places, you know, sack of potatoes, you know. The only thing in Sacramento back then was, of course, it was the head course of Tower Records. So it wasn't really from a scene that was already, you know, set like in L.A. or the Bay Area or New York or where have you. but that that record was a huge record was on everybody's radar of course and I think it really broke on the West Coast but yeah

so you had Jay King you had Denzel Foster and Thomas McElroy you know great producers who went on to major major success and I can't even remember who the female voice was of the group Valerie Jones I think

Her first name is Valerie and Samuel who also had a. Oh, Samuel. That's right. Did he do us? So you like that. That was my program. With the program. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But it was actually, this was one of those unique situations because we were already in a deal with Warner Brothers. And shortly after that deal started, which was around, I guess, 85, maybe 86, whenever tender love came out. There was a guy that was hired at Warner Brothers named Benny Medina. Yes, indeed. And Benny was made the head of Black Music, A&R.

He started in 86? I think around 80. Yeah, I think it was circa 86. Yeah, I'm not sure. For our listeners out there, we've mentioned Benny a few times on the show. Benny is technically the fresh prince of Bel Air. The, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, uh, so

based on Beny Bidina's story. And I guess, uh, Lenny Kravitz sort of mentioned on his episode that, you know, Benny started out kind of as, who, who was, uh, who was, uh, uh, a, uh, psychic with the umbrella, uh, Fonsworth Bentley. Yeah, he was kind of the Fonsworth Bentley to kind of, uh, he was, he, second 70s, early 80s era, Barry Gordy. And he formed a very interesting disco rock band called Apollo. I've only seen it perform twice. Interesting is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Yes, I put quotes on it. Interesting is doing a lot of work. Yeah. We know a song or something? No, we don't. Oh. Did you just Google Benny Badena Apollo? I've only seen him on Soul Train and Dance Fever.

And, you know, even at the age of eight, I was like, wow, this is weird. But of course, Apollo contained Carrie Gordy, who was also became a kind of got a day job as an exec. And, you know, Carrie's younger brother was Rockwell of somebody's watch me fame. But so when she mentions Benny Medina, you know, Benny Medina starts off as the real life Fresh Prince of Bel Air, works at Warner for some time period. and then becomes like super manager of JLo and Woolsmith and everyone. So sorry. I got to do footnotes for all these. That's good.

Yeah, no, man, this is, you're breaking it down. Yeah, yeah, he was, he lived with the Gordy family at some point after Apollo. He was hired by Moe Austin at Warner Brothers. And he was made the head of Black A&R, Black Music A&R. And his, you know, his very early signings, I don't know if you remember the female body inspectors. No. The FBI, FBI.

There was another guy. I've heard of this before, yeah. He's wearing his glasses today. Kids just used to say it on the playground. I didn't know it was a group, but okay. It's your discogs. And then there's another guy named Shet, I think, Cedric or Shedric. He was, sorry, had that West Coast, you know, curl activator thing going on.

Are you talking about Cherrick? Sherrick. That's it. Wait a minute. Is that the Sherrick that's part of Wendy Williams' story? Yes. Yes, it is. Wow.

Why? What? Wait, Sherrick, didn't he do call your name? Yeah, just call. Just call. That was him, you can't call me what you want to. Baby, just call. It was like the greatest Luther song that Luther never sang.

Right. I love that record. I believe at the top of Wendy Williams's story, her bio, pick kind of the beginning of her trauma starts with an unfortunate visit to his hotel or ex but yeah oh an unfortunate visit to his hotel room sort of begins the beginning of Wendy's trauma era I love these footnotes this is cool okay all right I'm mad I got Fonte on this show man I got to keep up with helpful useless information about R&BX you never heard of so much useless stuff

Oh, man. I'm sorry. I had Monica. That's all right. So Benny was making his way. You know, he'd had a couple signings. Nothing had really blown up, you know, big time. But he got a hold of Jay King when Timex Social Club broke.

And, you know, Jay King was really a very intense, kind of difficult guy. Gangster. He would have you believe that. He would have you believe that. Yeah, he was a rather compact guy. Short record executive scared the shit out of me, so I already know. Yeah. I'm not afraid of sugar night at all, but short dudes, no.

Yeah, he looked like he was buying his suits on Broad Street and Newark, you know. You're 5999, you know, Sunday church special type. episodes. And, you know, because he just did, he had this whole other look. And I've got a fantastic photo of me, Benny, and Jay King together from that era. And it sort of says a lot just in this one photo. But anyway, it was Benny who brought in Jay King and what became Club Nouveau. I think that the group was already sort of at falling apart and there was power struggles because Jay was a very, you know, he ran things with an iron fist in that organization. But so Club Nouveau was, you know, when Timex fell apart, Club Nouveau was the answer. Yes, you're right about that.

And the album came out through Warner Brothers and through Benny and our deal with Warner Brothers, Tommy Boy released all of the Club Nouveau 12-inch singles, which was very significant because they had a bunch of hits, you know? And again, this was a group that was like, who the hell are they? You remember all the album cover and 12 inch cover artwork? Yes.

Club Nouveau. It looked like, like silhouetted, or you can really. It looked like, well, kind of looked like it. Well, the drawings. It looked like prison art. Yeah. Really. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Monica could be borderline a QLS member. No, we go to the club and they have like the backdrop. Exactly. It looked like that. Right.

It did look like that. It kind of looked like outsider art or something you put next to the, you know, both those albums. Yeah,

for listening to the message and life love and pain. Matter of fact, I did not buy life love and pain because I didn't like the album cover. I got asked on it. Dang.

That is crazy. But it's just her face. Oh, it does look like a prison. I forget, I don't know. The first album. Not the second album.

It's just the way. Somebody needs to look up who did the artwork on all those because there was the same person who did all that artwork. And I think, in fact, it was the same woman who was portrayed on all those covers. And it was ingenious because nobody really knew what club Nouveau looked like. But there was such a strong branding and identity with those covers.

You knew when you went into the store, if you bought situation number nine, that you knew what jealousy, you could say, oh, it looks like jealousy. you know, buy them all, collect the whole set. Oh, wow. Why am I treating so bad? Situation number nine, glean on me, they all had the same. Yeah, they all had the same artwork style, same artist. And I think it was the same female model that was used. Like she was going through different phases of emotions on the cover artwork and all this.

But, you know, that sound was such a, it was a sound that really traveled quite well. I mean, we never had any records. that sounded like Club Nouveau. There was not a New York, you know, sound even remotely. And but in the South, the West, Midwest, all these places, people love those Club Nouveau records. They may not know who Club Nouveau is, though. But they know the song.

But they love New Rovers. Well, they were kind of close to what Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were doing. Like, you could almost say that Club Nouveau's, was probably a precursor to the new jack sound. Yeah. Like you could rhyme over rumors. Like back in the day, rumors could have been a beat on Houdini's circuit. Like, I guess they sort of took the baton where Larry Smith wasn't able to carry.

Very melodic, you know, sort of funky, sort of slower. Yeah. And I think, I think you're right. you know, Jimmy and Terry's influence was being widely, you know, their sound was being widely copied at that point. At the time when Timex Social Club imploded, kind of my only internet, at least for real time news, was always like Lee Bailey's Radio Scope. So around that time period, there was a lot of back and forth between Jay King and the Timex Social Club's guys like dissing each other. This is the first time I'm seeing like what I considered an R&B situation. Like it's one thing for like LL and M.C. Shan to go at each other because, okay, they're rappers.

They're supposed to do that. But, you know, not to this level. But that said, were you guys even allowed to have an audience with Denzel and Thomas for their production? Or did you get a sense that they were doing all the work musically? Well, first of all, I would say Denzel and Thomas were really nice guys. You know, cool, easy to deal with, you know, just cool guys. Jay was kind of a more sort of paranoid type of guy. And like I said, he really was had a, he was a bit of a control freak, really.

I could see where anyone would chafe under his leadership. And I don't know what the business was that they had arranged, but I'm having, I have a feeling it probably wasn't particularly advantageous for Denny and Tommy. So Denzel and Thomas. So I don't recall, I just remember Jay always being a guy that was quick, quick tempered, you know, very controlling, you know, not an easy guy to get along with, tightly wound. But to his credit, I would say also that he had a pretty strong vision about what he wanted and that it worked. So, you know, they had a brief and glorious run. And it's, of course, what was the put five on it was much sample.

I got five on it. Yeah. Why you treat me so bad. Why you treat me so bad. Yeah. So, but I, after lean on me, I don't know, whatever happened to, you know, Jay King or anyone, you know, Denzel and Thomas, of course, went on. 2%.

That is the number of people who take the stairs. when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts,

and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong, many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2% that's TWO% on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, personal health, personal health,

purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so, y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So, you're finishing that sentence. And yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. With 1986, BMA,

I mean, with that marriage of Warner Brothers and Tommy Boy, I noticed that was the only label that you saw both logos on. Was there a reason for that? Like, is there a reason why Three Feaheim Rising and Nardy and all the other subsequent Tommy Boy releases also didn't have the Warner Brothers logo on it? Oh, it's actually a pretty simple explanation. The deal with Warner Brothers was that, We would have discussions or mutually agree on what artists and albums would be best suited to go through Tommy Boy's independent distribution system.

And there were select artists like Foresum D's, for example, where they had a shot at getting, you know, top 10 black radio hits. and Warner Brothers had an in-house, you know, black music promotion and marketing department that we didn't have. And so we would mutually agree upon which releases would go through, you know, which system. So the palatable R&B non-hip stuff went through Warner sometimes? Yeah, I mean, and it wasn't like there was that much of it. I mean, the force MDs might be, might have been the only one. But there was, oh, well, that's not true either.

Information Society was silent morning. Wow. Well, you know, Noel. Every kid and, oh, wait, that wasn't Information Society? It was close. It was no silent morning, I think was Noel. Was that Tommy Boy? Running. You're thinking running. Well, you know, it's a information society was, well, their first record was running. And they were from Minneapolis. And they had an interesting story because they actually were on a label up in Minneapolis. I think it's called Twin Tone, an indie sort of, I don't know, alternative rock type of label. And they had this record called Running. And it was actually a little Louis Vega who was working as a DJ at El Nido del Diablo, the Devil's Nest, which was club, which was Salabatielo's other club. Oh, really? Running the

Fever, Disco Fever, but you open this place called The Devil's Nest. And Louis Vega, who, along with Joey Gardner, a Tommy Boy was also one of the pioneers of the whole Latin freestyle scene and sound, picked up on this Information Society record and turned Joey Gardner on to it, and that it was Joey who brought Information Society to Tommy Boy. Joey is my neighbor. He lives upstairs from me and we're like family. You know, he's a kid I plucked out of Crazy Eddie's 12 inch department like back in 1980s.

Crazy Eddies. Wow. Crazy Eddie's was a player in selling records. You mentioned Information Society. They did also, I want to know what you think you. Tell me. Yeah, your energy. Yeah. So, I mean, even with groups like that sort of coming ahead of the curve of like,

I don't know what you would. call like Depeche Mode or kind of like New Wave. Those type of, yeah, well, post new waves sort of like, I mean, it's not pop, it's not rock, but it's definitely synth base. I guess for me, my question is, is it possible for

an independent label, which I mean, I imagine that you guys were sort of like the equivalent of trying to navigate a tricycle on the 405? So, you know, is it possible for an independent label to navigate itself in the age of majors, you know, like is A&M truly the last independent major that could operate as a major label?

And, you know, what held you guys? Because I actually feel like you guys were in that Motown A&M lane where Tommy Boy could actually became a major. But like, is someone cutting you guys off? at the knees at the top or like how does that happen? Well, you know, it's interesting because you go back to really

distribution because there was in the early 80s there were A&M, Motown, and I think it was might have been ERISA. I'm not sure. There were three of the very, very large independent labels were

independently distributed and then they became majors. And so it left this entire different field of smaller labels that were that constituted the indies and independent distribution but the independent distribution distributors really sort of got the rug pulled out from under them when Motown and A&M left. So it actually presented opportunities for labels like ours. But when you so that's that might have been in the very early 80s, maybe late 70s when that happened. But fast forward to, you know, circa 86 or so, you know, be a Tommy Boy or any of the other

independent labels, it was almost impossible to even contemplate having pop records and cracking top 40 radio or even, or even, it was a pretty rare event to even have, you know, be able to have a top five or top 10 black radio single. You know, we just didn't have the sort of muscle. You know, we just didn't have the sort of I mean, these, these are labels that had full on departments and they had a lock on the slots, you know, it was not an even playing field, you know, a lot of times. So is it a thing where, is it a thing where, let's say like Walter Yetnikoff at Sony or, you know, where, okay, you guys are basically fighting for at least 30 or 40 positions at a major label. and is it a thing where it's just an unspoken given that,

you know, we got to save at least 15 spots for a Sony artist, A Michael Jackson, a Shaday. I wouldn't even say it was unspoken, you know. Oh, I was spoken. Yeah, spoken. I mean, you know, it was be, it wasn't even, you know, it was just so much muscle, so much leverage. You know, you want Springsteen tickets.

You want to do the giveaways. for, you know, you know, refrigerator, you know, you've got this, you've got that. We just didn't have those sort of resources, those tools. It's not like things got. So all your success was word of mouth. Like, wow, I really like this Lean on Me song. So let me add it. Any hits that we had had to have much more muscle and, and hit power behind it to even get a shot, really.

But, you know, but Lean on Me, of course, was unique in that it was a cover. It was in a big film. It was on a big soundtrack. You know, so, you know, it had a lot of, there was a lot of support mechanisms with that particular track. And did the club DJs help with that too? Like, it would seem like a lot of club New World Records were working in the club, so did that work for y'all favor a little bit more?

I would say, actually, their biggest hit being lean on me was probably not really a club record. It wasn't, yeah. No, it wasn't a club record. club record. The other records were much more, you know, street and club type of records and black radio records. Um, but, uh, lean on me was, I forget, I can't even remember the name of the movie. Maybe lean on me. Oh, all right. Well, there you go. So, you know, that's also after the fact is lean on me came out in like 89, whereas a single can't, you know, club new vote came out in 86. But yeah, you know, it's, it's a thing where it's a, it's a

song where both generations, Gen X and Baby Boehner's knew the song. And it was weird to hear you know, it was like, you know, the beat felt like post-Rick Rubin Def Jam. So it was definitely a statement record. Yeah. And there was a great woman who worked for many, many years at MCA records named Kathy Nelson. Yeah. And Kathy was really one of the pioneers of that soundtrack era that was so huge in the late 80s and early 90s. And she put a lot of black artists on those soundtracks where that wasn't necessarily

happening as much prior to that. She was always like, she'd say, Monica, you've got anything? I'm looking for a track for this record. How about that club nouveau? Oh, she had a funny way to talking. She was great. She had a lot of energy, a very dynamic, red-headed gal. She was a powerhouse.

She worked there with Al Teller. I don't know if you remember Al Taylor. We know. Yeah, so in any case, but she was, it was her, it was through her that we got that placement, you know. And also, I just want to say, you may, before we get off the topic entirely of Benny Medina, Benny played a very critical role with Tommy Boy in that he brought in,

it was through him actually that naughty by nature landed on Tommy Boy. And it was a circuitous route. Yeah, tell us. Tell us the story. Well, I want to make sure I get it all right, but I probably won't. But the thing is, is that once upon a time, we were pitched to sign. naughty by nature, but they weren't naughty by nature at that time. They were called, somebody helped me.

The new style. The new style and you style. Right. Yeah. And they were actually on a label called Bon Ami, which was part of Sylvia and Joe Robinson's empire. And they were wearing, and they wore zoot suits. No, they didn't.

No, no, not Vinny. No, they did. They did. No, they did. I seen a photo. Yeah. Yeah. I think Orsidney had a photo.

Yes. So they weren't, they were not naughty by nature yet. And they didn't, whether in sound, attitude style, nothing. You know, they were in a different larval stage of their career. So can I ask, did you guys truly know what you had? Because only in retrospect, I will say that naughty by nature is, probably the best storied example

of writing the thin line between authentic hip hop because as as an MC and a lyricist you know, Tretch was no joke. Tretsch was an influential MC like so good almost like he's in LL's lane where you know you're so good

you don't get credit. Yes, that's Tretch, yes. And but these songs like they wrote massive anthems and like their neck for really good. pop hooks. Did you know instantly? Oh, we can really, because I mean, they're coming out post wild thing, post-bust-a-move where like a pop rapper really has to go non-threatening rap to get to the other side. Like, did you guys know instantly what you had or was it sort of like a learning process where, oh, wait a minute. We can do another one and another one and another

Well, no, no, I think that, well, first of all, they weren't all, all those records had not been recorded, you know, at single point. I think anyone who heard OPP knew that they were listening to a smash hit. There was a one listen record. Nobody, you know, you didn't have to, you'd have to have a real tin ear not to hear OPP. Was that the response from radio when they, when you played it for them, Monica? I'm just curious. They were like, oh, yeah, and. Well, before radio.

I mean, radio was not always. the first stop. You know, but here's the thing. Here's the stage setting that when naughty by nature came around and they had OPP, these are guys from New Jersey. And nobody was really checking for New Jersey at that point. New Jersey was not the most legit place to be from as an MC at that point in time. You had to be from the five borough.

Did it matter? Yeah, it did matter. it did matter because you were in that era of sort of clicks and crews and who you down with and who's your producer. Pretty Red Man, right? Yeah. What the album was 92. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I forget, maybe somebody can, you know, tell me what your own. 91 is the first naughty album. Okay. So OPP came out before that. So I might have been 90 or early 91. But the thing is, is that no one was really checking for naughty by nature. The OPP, however, was one of those records where, you know, I always have always said this.

The best records you can ever get are the ones that a two-year-old and a 102-year-old can get into, you know, because it crossed all party lines. And you had that Jackson Five sample that people knew. It was part of the musical DNA for damn near everybody. Right. But the thing that really was a very big turning point for naughty by nature being, you know, elevated and checked in a different way was when the premier issue, well, I should say it was sort of like the test run issue of vibe came out. And in fact, it wasn't even called vibe yet. It was called volume. And I was friends with the guy who was the editor, the first editor.

Alan Leeds? I'm at Alan light. No, no, no. Alan was later. The Little Gray cells are not what they used to be. I thought it was Kevin Powell. He's a big writer for a lot for Vogue and a lot of other places now. But, um. Germain Hall? No, no.

That's late. Yeah. Oh. First editor of. Scott Paulson Bryant. Jonathan Van Meter. And I was kind of friendly with him and this guy named Gil Rogan at Time. Time Warner Publications, Time Magazine and all the publications that they had.

Anyway, it was just, it was Quincy Jones project, of course. Anyway, somehow I said, oh, you know, what if I went to, you know, God, what is his name now? The photographer that did the big photo. I went to this. No, this is all before Jonathan Mannion. And there's really incredibly well-known photographer said, oh, you know, we could do this story about all of the hip-hop artists who are starting to wear tattoos. And starting, wow. It was a thing.

Well, you know, this is very early 90s. And there was a lot of kids who were really starting to get into the tattoo scene. And so I lined up this photo set. and I said, oh, you know, it got puffy and the guys, I got naughty and a bunch of people from different groups and different camps. And he did the photo session and the big, the big photo that came out of it was Tretch with his shirt off. It was arms up like this. And that landed on the cover of what was really the first. issue of vibe. And like again, I guess it was a test run issue. I think at that point they called it

volume. And they had to change the name because the word volume was owned by some other publication in the UK. Albert Watson. Albert Watson. Thank you. Yes, it was Albert Watson. Great guy. Really an amazing photographer. And but in any case, you know, Scott Polson, Brian came up with a much better name for the publication. But it was that cover that women saw Tretch. Oh, yeah. Cover. Oh, yeah. Game over. Yeah, yeah. So that was the game change.

Zoot's gone. Machete, you know. Game balls, chains, like this. Machetee, the huge chains and Trench, you know, like this. Women just totally wants it. And it was like, so, so Trag. is all of a sudden a sex symbol and naughty continues having really amazing hits and KG you know

I think also underrated frankly as a producer a really great producer and Vinny was like you know such the spark plug of the group they were fantastic as a live act and they kept having these great records still are yeah but they but at that point you know when OPP came out, really New Jersey was not really happening. And one of the other things that was really big about OPP is when we did the video for OPP. And we did, this is a crazy thing, but this is how it was independent labels back then. We just made these little stickers that cost nothing to make. It says you down with OPP. And they, they featured prominently in the video. We would hand out packs of 100 and 1,000 stickers. They were, you know, hand them out all over the place.

It was like having your own street army of kids spreading the word on OPEC just with those damn stickers. Because then everybody wanted the stickers. It was like, you got, I want them stickers. You got them stickers. I want them stickers. I want them stickers. Why? Exactly.

It's like when you give a kid a pack of stickers, they were like deputized. So I'm a locker. Yes. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2% I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange

modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations. stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush? got to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Was there any truth to the rumor? I've read this a lot of places. Was there any truth to the rumor that Tretch or someone from Nite, I don't know if it's Tretch. brought a bag of snakes. Yes.

It's not a rumor. It's truth. And I'm happy to share that story. Yes. What? Because someone asked me about this recently. And I said, yeah, here's the story, man. On a weekday morning, a Tommy boy.

And again, we're talking about maybe crack a dawn like 10 a.m. or something. I was in my office and the receptionist said, hey, Tretches here with some of his guys, Pookie, and I forget who, maybe three guys, I think. Always a Pookie. There's always a Pookie. And I still remember Pookie. Pookie is actually a nice guy. But they're here.

They're demanding to see Tom. They're kind of upset. And Tom wasn't there. And so, and his office door was closed. So they march around the, they march around the, around the corner to my office. My office at Tommy Boy was across from the only bathroom. There were no windows in my office. No, poor ventilation.

You know, I got the whole smell of vision in my office. Oh, God. But it was, but they just showed up in my office and Tretch, he was, you know, Tretch is actually, kind of a quiet guy. He was a man of few words, really. He wasn't like, you know, he wasn't like yelling or, you know, whatever, popping off or anything. He just had this shoe box and he opened it and he dumped out what were really like garter snakes. Okay, good.

Okay. And mice. These were the type of things that you would have gotten at a pet supply store. Yeah. And mice? Yeah. Mice and garter states. Okay.

And so, and of course, like, I'm, you know, mortified, like, what the fuck? And then they just ran out. There was no, like, explanation or anything.

Well, come to find out. And that was one of your more successful groups. Yes. Yes. Right? That's the ones that was getting love. Well, like, ghetto bastard wasn't, didn't go double platinum or it's on wasn't?

Here's why it happened. So it was the dumbest fucking shit. there had been a dispute that really involved the business affairs guy and the group's attorney. And it was over. Now, when I talk about the most mundane shit, it's sort of mundane. When you had, cassettes were the, you know, such a, probably the number one format at that time for albums. And there was a big dispute over the J card for the album. for the album that was coming out.

Because you know how like when you get a J-card and sometimes they would be folding out and advertising stuff or whatever lyrics and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, there was a dispute because naughty had started making their naughty gear. Not a year. Yo, okay. And they wanted to have a free panel on the J-card. And lawyers being lawyers, they were sort of dicking each other over about,

well, if you're going to have this, you're going to have to pay 0.07 cents per panel, blah, blah, blah. By the time this is translated to the group, you know, it has become World War III. And I wasn't even really aware of what the issue was. But the thing is, is that what year did this happen, the snakes and the mice. It's the second album, right? Yeah, I forget what year this was. I mean, I would guess this is probably 91, 92 when this incident happened is before we moved downtown.

So, but it was in the age of maybe beepers and, you know, stuff like that. So by the time Word made its way downtown to the source and the rest of the hip hop world, it had become like, yo. And then he brought fucking Anacondas and Sue rats. And it became. You know, within 10, 15 minutes, it was like, you know, the biggest event. It would have made more sense if he would have anacondas and boil constrictors because, like, garden snakes and some small, like, pet store mice. Like, what you say?

Well, he was making a statement. And I guess a statement he wanted to make was, hey, you know, that you guys are rats and snakes. Laya, if someone dump some snakes on your desk, you wouldn't care, fuck, what kind of snakes there. No, you're right. No, no, no, no. I saw a waterbug last night. I almost died. So then about less than an hour after the incident, I get a call from Shaquim.

And Shaqim is Latif's business partner and also managed a naughty. And he was apologizing. A man, you know, he just was smoking some strong stuff this morning or whatever it was. He was really pissed off. And I'm sorry that happened. But it already, it became one of those things of hip-hop lore. were. So, but that's a story.

But it added to their whole persona. So it did. Yeah, it was a, you know, listen, it's one of the, look, we're sitting here in 2022. You're asking me about. So, you know, obviously it's lived on in infamy. Were your offices located on First Avenue? Yes. We were, um, okay.

I'd say we were in the hip hop hinterlands. It was, um, York Avenue, uh, First Avenue in, an area called Yorkville. We're very close to where the mayor's mansion is. I'm only asking, that's an inside joke. I never knew. It's one of those moments where De La

had jokingly credited a fictional like a song. What was the B-side to me, myself and I, Fonte. Oh, what's more? What's more? What's more was credited to being a song on the soundtrack to hell on First Avenue.

Oh. And I was like, wait, is that a real movie? And I didn't know if they told me that if Tommy Boy was on, like referring to Tommy Boy, but probably. Yeah, it was, you know, it's funny because we were up there. We had these offices above a soccer store called DOS soccer. And, but Jive Records was actually just a couple blocks over. over on Lexington. And, you know, I used to walk over there sometimes.

And Brenda K. Starr lived across the street from the Tommy Boy offices. And, yeah, no, actually, it was a great run at those offices. Actually, fun fact. I believe the Roots shot there Pro C2 video with Roy Ayers on the rooftop of Tommy Boy. Oh, you're kidding. Wow. Because I believe, I believe this is how I got to. to know who the Jazzy Pat Nassies were because when we were done shooting

that video and I went down and had to pass your offices, there's a poster of the four of them on the wall and then I guess someone happened to be listening to their music and I was like outside the door like, what the hell is this? Crazy shit I ever heard and someone explained

that, you know, Quentin had gotten a label deal with you guys and whatnot and they gave me a tape and I listened to it in the car obsessively and then stalked them and then they moved into my house for the next 14 years and they're left. You probably. They're still in my house right now.

No, it was actually an A&R guy named Al B. Ragusa who was involved in bringing the jazzy fat nasties our way. And I loved what they were doing. It was totally different, cool out there, like incredible. you know my recollection though is I think that at that point the group themselves were not entirely you know slowly imploding but I mean from what I heard you know Jay Swift was really gearing them up to be if the Farside's debut album were sung by women it would have been like I've never heard such a bolder

more adventurous record ever yeah and kind of my chagrined is that they came to us and I felt like the thing that really made them awesome we got rid of so but that's neither here nor there well you know it's too bad that that didn't come together because I think that they would they would the lane was it was going to be wide open for them there wasn't there hadn't been anything yeah like before my fandom for Slem Village like I was about jazzy fat nasties. Is that record ever come out y'all? Can people find the jazis on Tommy Boy? I mean I found maybe like seven songs.

Like I'm sure there's rough mixes somewhere, but. Yeah. I'm certain Jay Swift has it somewhere. Yeah. You know, and plus, you know, they're another great example, you know, like Dela Sahl and other acts that we've had, where the name itself, like, we have a great name. Yeah, they did have a great name. It really helps, you know. It does.

Jazzy Fat Nassies. What a cool name is perfect. But can we just say in this moment, everything happens for a reason because if this didn't happen, we wouldn't have had the black lily, which means There may not have been a Jasmine Sullivan, a kindred of the family. So a flow of tree. I mean, the list just goes on and on. So it's literally like everything happens for a reason. Yeah, everything happens for a reason.

Yeah. So Monica, that said about imaging. We briefly glossed over it the last episode. But, you know, the irony is not lost on me that, you know, kind of the nightmare stories about the office are also happening from your most successful groups. How are you guys feeling about the time when. constantly. Like if you're thinking, okay, we got De LaSoul on the LL Cool J tour, this should be smooth sailing for them. And yet night after night, every tale of violence and pugilism and fighting are coming from the one group that,

at least on paper, isn't supposed to represent that, which, I mean, I get their point that they felt that they were pegged in a hole, which they would have to sort of whatever, approved there. Machismo in an age where monchismo was everything in hip hop. But when you guys are getting reports back that, you know, every night, De La is

kind of getting tested by the kids in the yard, especially on tour. And they eventually get kicked off of the tour. Are you, like, are you guys starting to think like, well, maybe we went too far with the marketing or whatever?

I mean, from my end, that's it was a lifesaver because it gave me something to relate to but like in hindsight what do you what do you think it was that sort of put them in the position that they really sort of disassociate themselves from three fee hind rising well okay there's a lot a lot to unpack there um first of all i think that when they came to us they were very young they were you know like 18, 19. They came from much more inward type of place than an outward like a place. And the reason I say is because it wasn't like they came up like a lot of rappers

came up doing battles, doing shows. You know, they were already experienced live and all that stuff. That was not de la Salle. They didn't have live chops at that point. They did there one, I think I mentioned this the last episode, that they did that first, you know, I think it was an album release party at Payday. And they did this incredible show where they had the holding up the placards with the lyrics. And it was great. And everyone, oh, this is incredible.

This is so different. This is the coolest shit. And we had three feet high and rising out. and it had this really unbelievably cool and different type of imaging and marketing. And again, it was sort of, I guess, for better and for worse, because I think that, you know, people embrace the entirety of De La Slocke's because the album was so different, the sound was so different, the language was so different, their look was so different, the imaging was so different.

But, yeah, they weren't road tested. and I think when they got out in there on the road with, you know, be it LL or whoever else they were traveling with, and they hadn't done the grind and they hadn't done those type of live shows on a steady basis, I think that it was, they probably did feel like they had to somehow defend themselves or prove themselves. I'm speculating here because I was not out on the road with them. But I think the general thing that I have taken away from it all these years later is that they weren't a great live act in the beginning. And then they became a great live act. You know, once they gained their confidence and they had more experience and they were doing it on the regular, they, you know, found themselves.

But I can't really put all that, you know, foot the problem. blame for that. Well, geez, if we hadn't done a, you know, a Daisy Age album cover, none of this would have happened. I, you know, I think now, you know, the group has actually reembraced that imagery and, and it's part of their legacy. So if they had some rough patches there, you know, finding their way from point A to point B, well, they came out of it and they, you know, and then years later, I was like, man, they, they, they, they, they still perform. I was They were fantastic, you know, so this is such a class. 30 years after the fact, what were your feelings on De La Sol is dead then and now?

You know, in my opinion of their entire canon, that's probably my favorite album of their lot. And it's probably the album that kind of built me. And it's weird. I know people talk in hindsight, like it's such a dark. nasty record. I think it's actually their funniest record. Yeah, I didn't think of that record is dark at all. It's funny as shit. It's humor. It's biting sarcasm. Yeah. And you guys really did a, I mean, the marketing for it was awesome. Like, they got on the cover of Rolling Stone, which was truly unheard of back then. And especially, you know, once the source came into play and that was something credible, them getting five mics there.

you know, just in general, like, what were the execs at Tommy Boy thinking? Well, were there execs at Tommy Boy? It wasn't just you and Tom. Well, I mean, exacts. I mean, we weren't exactly the most, you know, it's like we didn't have C-sweets or anything like that. Like I said, my office was like a very sort of claustrophobic type of place. So I wouldn't say like, oh, my God, the ripple effect through the executive ranks of Tommy Boy, It wasn't quite like that.

I mean, listen, the group was reacting, you know, to the, you know, pushing back and reacting to the, the daisy age imagery that I think at that point they sort of feel had been thrust upon them. And they were trying to shake it off. And they did, frankly, you know, I mean, look at the cover. So, but it's an incredible album. you know, I don't, I don't remember getting having any particular, you know, Zerus about the whole thing. De La Sulla's dead.

In fact, I thought it was like, oh, this is great. This is going to keep a story going. And it's a great album. If the album sucked, who would fucking care? But it was incredible. Did you guys worried at all about them putting Renee King's number on the on the ring ring ring

ha ha hey I would call her often when she picked up at the top of ring ring ring I guess a woman for our listeners out there there's a woman that POS met at the new music

seminar named Renee King and she just called and called and called and called and called and called and called left messages after messages and they decided to leave one of her messages on Possa's answer machine. Eric O215-222-4209. You know that number?

And I'm calling in reference to the music. Remember who you're talking about? Of course he does. You called it too. Man, I did not call it. Hell with shit. Man, my mom would have beat my ass. I called.

Long distance. That's true. My bad. My bad. I just played the fuck out of the day. My soul is dead. I call that number often and spoke to Renee King. Like, she kept that number to like,

I think the last I called it was like 94, but. Amir, you were gone in a whole year. She wanted to be able to go. It was like, hello, is this Renee King? Yes, this is me. Oh, wow. It is her, y'all. Well, let me put you this way.

I don't think that that would have flown today. At all. It would be like doxing someone on an album, you know, or stalking or harassment to put somebody's phone number. And I don't even, you know, that's a good point, though, because legally I'm, I'm, I'm wondering if there was a line that was crossed putting her phone number. I mean, obviously she had to get permission.

I mean, she never retaliated. That obviously, though. I'm not so sure it was obvious. I don't think she would have. She welcomed it. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter.

And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've

discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I always wanted to know, why didn't you guys release a video? Well, I think I'm answering my question right now, as I say it, for Millie pulled a pistol on Santa. A very weird choice for a third single. why didn't that come with a video? Because, I mean, the song was clearly, like, levels of storytelling, like, on Slick Rick's level. But instead, you guys focused on the B side, which was keeping the faith. But, I mean, at the time when you heard it, like, did you guys truly feel like that could have been a single? I don't recall, Your Honor.

Okay. It was 30 years ago. No, I seriously, I don't recall. But I can tell you it sounds like the type of thing where I would have said, I don't know, maybe, you know, are we going to get, you know, will yo MTV raps play this? I don't know. Will this clear, you know, standards practices?

Right. Although I'm sure there would have been a very artistic, interesting way to approach the whole thing. But I don't even recall. But the song is about what it's about. So how do you say? Yeah. One thing I don't know.

When did you leave Tommy Boy? I left in February of 1998. So you were there for like stakes as high. I never knew like when your era ended and like what albums you weren't there for. The last album that I gave a green light to was Everlast, everlast solo album that Dante produced. Okay. Okay.

And that was my, the last one that I said, yep. And it didn't, it didn't happen very easily. either, but that was the last... How did you have to sell it? What made it difficult? Well, no, it was because there was internal drama that was happening at the label that involved on the label side, got you.

The business affairs director, kind of having a dick war with Everlasts attorney, and it almost didn't happen. Right. But thank God it did, because that was a huge, you know, that might have, I mean, that album, I think, did three millions, so... Ah, that's a hell of way to go out. Yeah, put your jersey in the rathes.

But I left February, February 98. But just in general, with each day-law record coming out and getting more darker and kind of taking subtle or not-so-settled jabs at the industry. I mean, that's the one thing. If I could change anything about De Laa, I remember my A&R, Wendy Goldstein, telling me, like, yo, no matter what y'all do, never do a song about how fucked up your label is because nobody cares like nobody cares about the label fucking you over like anything but the label fucking you over like did you guys feel a certain way about the subtle jabs at our artistic expression because even with balloon mind state which seems to be everyone's general favorite day allow record at least when you ask the average

person you know when they're talking about like patty duke and all that stuff like a lot of these songs are specifically aimed at how we're not stars anymore and we didn't make it and we used to be the shit now like in focus is that way and whatnot like did you guys just let them go off on their own creativity or was someone there just be like hey guys like no one's going to relate to the fact that you know you're not getting properly promoted well okay I mean first of all I don't think there's any label person in the world who's going to sit back and say man, it was great when that dig really came at me. Of course, it's like, you know, it's uncomfortable.

It can be a little mortifying. It's like, oh, shit, you know. And yes, I saw the references to duck season on the, which is actually, you know, that's cool too. I mean, I actually have a really good relationship with Riza. But the thing is, is that the, I think even, worst, the worst thing you can do is interfere. And I don't, there wasn't anyone telling them, you can't say this or don't say that. You know, I think if they needed to work that out,

however they wanted to work it out and say it publicly, it's fine. And, and, you know, sometimes people, you know, there are people say, well, you're airing, you know, your dirty laundry. No one really cares about this sort of drama that's going on over here. It's sort of industry. It's about what's happening in the industry. But no, there was no, I don't recall there ever being anyone's trying to issue a corrective about what they could or should say or how they were saying it. And in fact, even if you wanted to, it would probably be futile and just, you know, make you as a, you know, as a label or an ANR person look, you know, then you really send yourself up for, you know, for criticism. So now. How are you guys building your staff?

Like how does Dante come to your attention? How does what other notable? Yeah. Characters are at Tommy Boy helping the machine run. Well, you know, our beloved Dante Ross. Yes, of course. And there is, I'm glad you brought that up because this came up in a conversation recently because a lot of times when people will do interviews and they always want to talk about the

artist, of course, that's natural. But, you know, one of the things that I would say all these years later is I'm very proud of is all the people that I had a hand in hiring or that I did hire and who have gone on to really pretty amazing careers themselves. And Dante, of course, is one of them. Dante is quite a rock contour in his own right. And I hired Dante. very shortly after he left Leor Cohen's employee. I think it was a rather unceremonious parting of the ways. So is that an awkward thing? Like if you're, one, are you friends with other CEOs of other labels?

And is there an unspoken rule about poaching, you know, their particular employees to come and work for us and it carried on the stick thing? Like only only if only if there's what they I guess would be called tortious interference with a contractual situation tortious interference I'm no lawyer but the but but basically if someone's under contract and you interfere and try and hire them or sign them and they're under already under contract with with a label you are risking you know legal action yeah so but but let me tell you Leor did not have Dante under contract. And those two, you know, I think we're happy to be out of each other's way. So I hired Dante.

And, you know, it's his first day in our job. And, you know, we, De La Sol was already on the label. And that was the first project that I gave him to oversee was the album. So he's obviously. gone on to great renown and great success. But there's a lot, but there are others. Please say, please tell. Well, you know, one guy that comes to mind is a guy named Rod Houston, who's from Philadelphia.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Rod started actually as Tom's assistant. And one of the great things about when the label was really small is that it's not like we had all these different departments, you know, like if people started somewhere, they could very easily sort of shipped into like, oh, guess what?

We need videos. Wait, we don't have someone to do videos. Oh, Rod, you're going to oversee videos now. And that's, in fact, kind of how it happened. Rod was Tom's assistant, but Rod was also in charge of calling the hip-hop mix shows. And then he, oh, my God. I just looked at him. I'm so sorry.

I realize the reason I know him is not because of this career, but it's because of his second career, Rod Houston. Yes. Yes. Yes. So then he was, you know, pretty handy with, you know, technical and video stuff. So he, all of a sudden, Rod's like in charge of overseeing videos for Tommy Boy. And he's a really incredibly great smart guy.

But what, you know, Rod, from time to time, he started doing voiceover work. And he would say, hey, Mo, do you mind if I can leave you over there? So wants to know if I can go. you know, do a radio spot for them. Yeah, sure, blah, blah. Well, what was starting, you know, pretty modestly back then, exploded into this wildly successful career is one of the most, you know.

He's died. He's like a voice up. I cannot turn on the TV or the radio or anything without hearing Rod Houston's voice. He's that successful. in the voice field. Did he talk like that all the time at the office? KJ.

He always had a reverb machine with himself. No, he always had that voice, you know, which made him great on the phone, you know. Having a good phone voice is important if you're going to be doing radio promotion, you know, or retail promotion with any sort of promotion, really. So he's one guy, Chris Atlas started. Yeah, awesome. Yeah.

Coquistone. Wow. I love those when they were sending those mixes out, those mixed CDs. Yeah, but his first job was, I'm almost certain it was his first job in the industry was at Tommy Boy doing like street promotions and marketing. Fat Man Scoop. What? That's right.

In your ads. What was his job there? He was doing, Scoop had been working actually, I think, at Harlem Hospital. And it was through Albi Ragusa that I met Scoop and Albi said, oh, this guy, you know, be good. And so Scoop started doing, he was also doing mixed show promotion, you know. And but then, you know, Scoop was always such a character. And I started putting him in the, some of the ads on the back cover of the Source magazine. You know, he soon went on to his own brand of stardomist or like the ultimate.

hype man doing those hype records. A radio guy too. Were you the marketing person at Tommy Boy? I was my, well, like those jackets and everything. Yeah, as the president of Tommy Boy, I was overseeing all the creative of Tommy Boy. So that was A&R, the imaging, advertising,

marketing, promotion. You know, and when we got into doing and all the different chachkas and merchandising materials that we made. Like we had all the lanyards. We did all the these. Albi Ragusa, who is another person who started out doing rap promotions and segueed into doing A&R was a really, had really great style. He was very connected with sort of the emerging downtown hip-hop.

skateboard, UK, New York, access of style. He knew the people at Union. He knew James Lavelle. He knew Sean Stozy.

He knew all these cats when they were just coming up. And so I always look to Albi as, you know, as a great sort of style and fashion eye.

And he was very involved when we did a line of clothing. And it was, you know, when we did the Carhart jacket, which became a very iconic piece, it was Albi's connection to Sean Stussy that resulted in that fantastic logo on the front breast, right breast pocket. I think, I forget which pocket. But, you know, it was. So those were official Tommy Boy. I always thought those were like bootlegs. So that was commissioned through you guys.

Oh, absolutely. No, no. We produced those things. And, you know, the Carhart jacket became sort of got its status. Because we, you know, the thing back then was to really, you know, we had a sort of a list of people that we would seed lace. Lacing was a thing, you know, tastemakers, artists and things like that. So I think it was that Carhart Jacket in particular was like one of those things that people like, oh shit. you know, either I have it or I wish I had it.

And, you know, so, and it was sort of the beginning of when labels started to branch out into doing, you know, clothing and things like that. $3,000 to $5,000 on auction. I'm just saying last time it was one available. Yeah, that was my. It was my jacket. There's a hip-hop, a hip-hop shop in Philly called the Lay. that my current, oh God, I've been with Keith for almost 30 years now, my production manager used to run it.

And he had a Tommy Boy jacket. And I remember like saving up for three weeks to buy that thing because I wanted to leave people under the impression that Tariq and I had signed to Tommy record. Oh, my God. I wore that shit everywhere. Everywhere. That's the best thing.

Thank you for sharing that. Well, speaking of your staff, there's one thing I didn't ask. Were there any close but no cigar moments in terms of almost having an artist that you could have signed but lost like at the last 11th hour? Oh, wow. Well, listen, I'll tell you that there are always, you know, a question I always get, well, how come y'all didn't sign Tupac? That's a big one because. Was it an option or? Yeah, digital underground.

I forgot. Oh, yeah. Duh. Oh, why y'all like son Tupac? No. You know, Digital Underground, of course, was, had done very well on Tommy Boy. And I was close with shock.

And also with their manager, Atron, Agent Gregory. And I knew Tupac from, you know, when he started, when he was a dancer with Digital. And he, you know, he was very charismatic. He was kind of flirty, very much more sort of like, you know, clown dropping trow on stage, you know. It wasn't necessarily the Tupac that people came to know, you know, just a few years later. Bishop. Yes. Well, that role, Bishop and Juice, you know, I've always said that was the big turning point for Tupac because when Tupac, when the first single came out trapped, it was an interstate.

Scope and that was not, you know, that record took some time to break. A guy named Steve Berman over at Interscope, you know, they were trying to really make a big push into that marketplace. And the Steve Berman that's in Dreidea video? Yeah. Is that actual Steve Berman? Oh, it's in a video, probably. Or is that a guy portraying Steve Berman?

Well, Steve Berman has a very specific look to him. I haven't seen the video. I think in Dreide, when like the guys like talking to EZE, the EZE character that what's his name? The comedian. He just passed away. He just passed away, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think that Steve Berman in that video. And he, I know he's in an in an M&M record that has Steve Berman's name in it.

Yeah, yeah. He's always on the sketch. And I think Violet Brown's on their track. Yeah. But the thing is, is that the role of Bishop, I think, was, you know, listen, Pac was, you know, you know, he was really best friends with Tretch. Him and Tretch were my running buddies here in New York. The guy, Neil Moritz, I think, was the name of the producer of that film.

I remember, you know, he told me at one point, you know, Tupac. This was a huge turning point for Tupac. When he had that persona of that dark brooding, you know, character that was very different really from what people had seen of him. I think it was something that brought out, you know, that it extended into, you know, his, his career as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, as a, but he was always, I think he always was, you know, that complex guy. He just, what, but you didn't see that necessarily in his role with digital underground. But the long story short,

is that, well, actually, it's just a short story long, is that the Atrin had given me the demo tape for Trapped, and we passed on it. I still, I held on to the cassette, and it's now in the Tupac exhibition in Los Angeles, if you want to go check it out. I'm actually going to see that tomorrow. Well, maybe, you know, but you said earlier,

I mean, you said earlier things happened for a reason, And there's artists that just, you know, I think that Steve Berman and Interscope had the time, the muscle and the desire to really break Tupac. And it was the right fit. And it was, and it worked. There are artists that for one reason or another, you know, just didn't come to pass. You know, I have all the, a lot of the demo tapes of Riza. When. I was a past, yeah, like Riza, his first is Prince Rakeem deal.

Yeah. And it was sort of, again, it was sort of in that interstitial period when he was metamorphosizing from Prince Rakeem into Rizza. Did you like the way that was portrayed on the, the Wu-Tang saga? You know, people have sent me, I have texted me pictures of the lady who plays me. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's hilarious. No, I got to look for it. Yeah. It was good.

That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. is a way. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the big. biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of course.

crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This song was inescapable. I wasn't the biggest fan of it, but, you know, we couldn't escape it. Gangst's Paradise.

Or just how you guys found Coolio. Yeah. Was he part of the WC. Matt Circle? Yeah, he was on the WC in the Mad Circle album. He was in the video. Culeo was fantastic. He was also, you know,

he had some troubles too, but he was great to work with and he was a character. And those were great records. You know, Gangstis Paradise was also a track that benefited from a significant film placement. And, you know, it kind of surprised me that there hadn't really been a record up until that point that had used pastime Paradise as effectively as that, you know. It's like one of those records. Like today you could, you still hear Gangst's Paradise all the time.

yesterday was you know we had st patrick's day here recently jump around you know oh my god yeah that's an anthem you know there's certain OPP is an anthem we were bluddy dance is an anthem we were blessed to have lays first you know we were blessed to have some records me myself and I you know anthems you know and that is yeah something that Supermodel is an anthem. You know, I was just thinking, Fonte, it's almost like, I think Kulio, he's gangster adjacent.

Like, he's almost, he filled the lame that I think Ludacris wound up doing in the arts. Like, looks the role, but it's kind of gangster adjacent. Like big pop hits. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, same thing as naughty.

Like, yeah. Look the role and somehow, I mean, but did you guys imagine that he would be as big as he was because you guys had like at least four to five major hits on him. With Culeo? Yeah. Yeah. You know, man, you never know.

You just never know because I don't think we didn't hear Gangsters Paradise. It hadn't been recorded when we put out the first track, you know, so. No, but even with like Fantastic Voyage and the other, there's. I remember he had, yeah, a couple joints. if I remember why'd you be met out of them. But there's two records that really. I mean, it's all the two.

But I want to say two out of it as well. It felt like five at least. Yeah, y'all also signed LV. Y'all put out his letters. Yep. We titled I Am LV. Fuck. Yeah.

But we didn't have any hits with LV. No. No. I mean, he was a cool song. Yeah. I didn't even get Latifah out. If we got it. When you, like, how did she come to the label and how?

Because I know that had to been specific marketing on, on your end at least. Like, what was your idea? Like, what did you see in her that you accentuated or? What was it? I've always said this, that there was three people that I will always credit for Latifah coming through Tommy Boy. and that would have been Dante, Dante Ross, 45 King, and Fab Five Freddie. And they all played very critical roles in her early career as well. But they were all, they all kind of were talking to me about her.

And she came to the office, the first time she came to the office. Dana was very young. She was in all their, you know, people forget, you know, like, I mean, she was like 18, I think. And she, again, this sort of round the way, Jersey girl. And she came to the office and she just had on like jeans and a sweatshirt, no makeup. She had her hair done. You know, when gals were wearing like, they're so like curled on the top, as short on the sides type of look and everything.

And she just was so unassuming. And but clearly she was very intelligent. she was had a great bearing and presence and and she had enormous charisma she had this thing that it doesn't matter if she's got you know full hair and makeup and a great outfit on or something she just was like had this really unbelievable presence for a young 18 year old woman who hadn't really been you know had. hadn't been off the turnip truck yet, you know. She's, she'd worked a Burger King and, you know, had a, had her own little group in high school, you know, MC group in high school. And, but she was just calm, cool, collected. And she's always had this quality that, I think, has served her incredibly well over many years.

And she really could walk into any room. she could go on to any stage. She could basically, you know, emce any event. And she's got that gift. I saw her in the very early days at this place called Hotel Amazon doing one of her very early shows. And you know how, I mean, Hotel Amazon was down in Lower East Side and one of these places that I guess they just were doing hip hop nights on the weekend. And it was kind of,

it was funky. It wasn't like some, you know, playing at the beacon or some other place where they're all set up for sound and lights. This place was not that at all. It was the opposite.

And the sound went out. And you know how like a lot of times, you know, if it's the guy, a lot of these guys say, fuck the sound guy. Toss the mic on the floor and stomp off the stage, all angry.

She didn't even flinch. She just like kept rocking. And even though the sound was off and the crowd just, nobody missed a beat. And they were just, eh, you know, and that is her. That is her. She just doesn't get flustered that way. And she has, she's also, she is so musical. I mean, she's a singer. You know, she's incredible. As an MC, you know, she's got this beautiful flow and presence on the mic. but she's a great singer and her mother was her late mother's was a tremendous influence on her and um and to this day we're very you know i'm still close with dana and i had was able to work with her after i had had left Tommy Boy and she had gone, you know, into her incredible career as an actress and

doing all other sorts of things. But actually A&R two albums of her, her jazz albums, she was incredible to work with. I loved working with Dana. And 45 King, I think, you know, he's another guy that I think probably doesn't necessarily get as much. much credit and on a hurled hero yeah yeah he's most definitely he's one of my book of this people yeah i mean because it was that that whole little basement crew and mark's house that you know the whole sort of flavor unit posse emerged out of that and was and mark was the you know it was that was that was he was the center of all that if you watch the yo m tv wraps interview where freddie goes out to to their basement to their basement it's a classic interview

this day, yes. Why do I start of the tape? I don't know, but I saw her on my VHS cassette. Yeah. And you know, she didn't start as Queen Latifah. She started as Latifah. And then she became Queen Latifah. And that's a situation where, you know, like, you know, the press, you can really tell sometimes with the press immediately, like, it's like, oh, yeah, I get that. I can really get my head around that. And that was Latifah, you know. Because there was a fable around that. I always heard that the queen came from her being involved, not being involved, but her relationship with like five percenters or something like that, but that could have been urban legend.

I never heard her say that. I mean, I know that the word Latifah means delicate and sensitive. I'm not sure exactly when and who or if she just bestowed the queen crown upon herself, which I think is great. But she's, you know, one thing about her too is that you find that to this day, like women who are, uh, were young. and in their teens when she was first coming up, were hugely influenced by Latifah.

I always hear from women like saying, yeah, oh man, when I was in high school and ladies first came out or unity, you know, or whatever it might have been, she had an enormous influence on a generation of women. And there's also, I say, about Latifah, because she's one of those people like, you say, I'm you know I don't like rap but I like that queen Latifah

that's funny you're right you know your great and Gert out in Idaho be like I love Queen Latifah like so there's one more artists on your label that sort of reached icon status that was signed to the label 93 can you talk about how RuPaul came to the label oh yes please yeah thank you for asking about RuPaul the dance music edit over a billboard named Bill Coleman. Bill Coleman. Yes.

And he, yeah, real sweetheart. He's a great DJ still doing his thing now. And he actually got in touch with me. He might, I think this is even maybe before email. You know, you called me and said, you know, hey, these guys, Randy and Fenton have this artist named Rupal. And there's this track. I thought maybe you'd want to hear it.

I thought maybe you'd be good for this. So I said, yeah, send it over. And I actually knew who Rupal was because that whole sort of downtown Leapstock, Lady Bunny scene that was happening already. The downtowns are a drag scene. And so I knew who Roo was. And so when I got the tape, I listened to it. It's like, again, it's one of those things where you listen to and you say, oh, this is great.

This is a great pop. record. And what was the song, Monica? Oh, it was it was it was supermodel. Super model. Do you? It was better work. Sashay, shantay. Exactly. And it was again, it sort of fell into that category of it's either going to be a huge hit or a huge failure. And those I think are always the best decisions to be confronted with. And you know, and so. Yeah, it was this sound of C&C music factory where like house was now entering the mainstream and. wasn't underground anymore. But at the time,

did you think that Rupal was just going to be like a one-off? Kind of like, at least if I'm looking at K-7, I'm thinking, come, baby, coming, whatever the song was like, okay, you're just one-off with Rupal.

But did you at all see the, or think that Rupal had the potential to be the icon? That, you know, I think, well, no, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said, oh, yeah, I saw all this, you know, you know.

No, I mean, I thought we got an early sense that Super Mal was going to be a big hit because that video that his managers directed and put together was astounding. It was. That and also the other thing that I was very involved with was placing that record in some key fashion week shows. specifically Todd Oldham and Isaac Mizrahi because this is back when Fashion Week was like a cool thing

and all the shows that were going on and so supermodel and it was also really the era of supermodels so Naomi and Linda and you know Christie and all these people you know all that being name checked

in the record and that scene being really hot and the drag scenes are coming up but you had Rupal who is like basketball tall and, you know, just no one could walk past Rue and go, oh my God, you know,

this towering goddess. Rue had and has tremendous ambition. And, you know, of all the artists that I've ever worked with, Rue, I think, had to work the hardest because if you want to say, well, we're going to do a day of in-stores or, oh, we're going to have you do press

or go to an event. Well, he has to spend hours getting ready. You tell that to any rapper. It's like, like, really? I think so. You know, so Rue had to really, you know, was a big undertaking to do all that stuff. And MTV really helped break that record.

Tune is a top 40 dance record. And we did get feedback from, I should say, no one really would say it to my face. I knew that there was disgruntlement with a few artists about Roo being on Tommy Boyd. There was... Oh, yeah. I know the rappers wasn't happy. They was like, wait, what's going on here?

What are we doing? What you doing? What the label mate? My label mate? Yeah. Yeah. Not comfortable in certain cases. But, yeah, so Rue really broke a lot of barriers.

And a lot of people did say, you know, I don't think any label, but Tommy Boy could have done that with Rupal. So I thought that was always high. high praise. That's dope. How do you generally feel about music now? Like, is, are you still, is the 17-year-old inside you still excited about anything musical or is everything in your rear view mirror now? Oh, man, this is, I'm so happy you ask that question.

Because when I left Tommy Boy in 98, I always sort of joke that I left the music industry to learn more about music. I left. I was at a very personally, I was at a low point, and the industry was changing a lot. I was pretty bummed out and depressed, quite frankly. And I started working part-time at a record store after I left Tommy Boy, a place called Footlights, down on, it was on 12th Street. It's a place that specialized in soundtracks and jazz and vocals and. things like that. So I would be working there part-time. And then I started, I got on the staff

at WFMU, which is a free form radio station in Jersey City of some renown and started doing a weekly show there for over 15 years. I'm still a staff member there and still do radio shows. And there's nothing I love more than listening to new music and old music. I listen to music all the time. I constantly have Spotify open and have a million playlists. You know, I've nicked quite a few things off of shows that you've done when you were doing those regular shows on Instagram. I love the playlist that you did for Greg Tate. Yeah, it was really great. You know, so I'm into all sorts of music, all sorts of music from all different eras. I love it more than ever. And yeah, I love checking out new new stuff. I love reissues and, you know, I love going down the rabbit hole. So yeah, totally

into it. Yeah. Where do you find music? Where do you find music? I'm a good question, Monica. I was always curious to find out what your means of discovery are. My favorite, my favorite game is playing, you know, you play a song on your streaming weapon of choice. And, you know, you always look at the bottom. Yeah, go down at the algorithm. Right. And then look through that artist and then looking their artists and looking their artists. Okay. Not only

that, I would say that you know, as a fan of these current shows that are on HBO, you know, your euphoria's, your insecures and whatnot. Like those, they go super deep. An artist I might not have heard before and then I'm fans of theirs.

Or just in general, I'm not afraid or ashamed to Shazam anything. So I'll be in a supermarket. I'll be in a club and if I hear something cool, I'm Shazam in it. Totally. I'll fall down a rabbit hole. Like, I don't agree that, you know,

most people say like, well, music's dead now. It's just so much more of it. You just got to know where to look. I think what's dead is like the taste maker. Like, you know, to have this is kind of why I wish, like, I really had okay player up and running in a way that was running back in

99, 2000, where I could always guarantee 12 people would put me on to something like. That was true. But yeah. Yeah. It's still there. But Monica, I thank you for doing this for us. Yeah, one of the perils

of doing the afternoon is your lunch break is over and you got to go back to your day job. Got to work. Yeah, we all got to go to work. Thank you so much, Monica, for doing this. Thank you. This is Questlove. Thank you, Monica. And yeah, Sugar Steve and Bill and Fonte and Laya. And we will see you next.

Go around on Questlove Supreme. Thank you. Quest Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs

when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness. fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWA% on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball in college football, ball journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

On the Look Back at a podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it

with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human