The Questlove Show - Questlove Supreme: Narada Michael Walden Part 2

Episode Date: April 10, 2024

In Part 2 of his Questlove Supreme interview, the musician-turned-super-producer Narada Michael Walden examines the 1980s. He recalls making hits with songstresses like Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Angela Bofill, and Stacy Lattisaw. One can feel the passion, experimentation, and wise intensity of a 50-plus-year legend in the game. This interview is special.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed human. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I bowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players

flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12

and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am. I wouldn't go that far. But I'm John Green, co-hosted the podcast via Way End, with my old friend Daniel

on our podcast, the away end, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Alarcon and

John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast

I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. Yo, what's up, everybody?

It's Fonticlo from Questlove Supreme. We are back with part two of our conversation with Narder Michael Walden. This is an amazing two-parter. If you happen, please check out part one, where Nairda talks about his Michigan upbringing, his deeply transformational time with the Mahavishnu Orchestra, who Little Brother sampled, plug, plug, chikaria and more. It's April Jazz Appreciation Month, and this two-parter certainly celebrates the genre and culture, and how it shapes so much music outside of the genre.

Enjoy. There's a question. I've been dying to know. In the mid-70s, jazz cats. Now, in the case, if you're Miles Davis disciple, I understand, like, M2 may already explained to us that Miles's dependency was getting out of control in the early 70s, and then he's basically not too functional, and the band's left without work, and they're basically like, well, we got to pay the rent.

and you know M2 May and Reggie Lucas of Miles Davis's you know, band were like well shit we got to write some hits to pay the bills Yeah. Can you explain to me why

there was such a mass exodus of fusion musicians of jazz musicians that all of a sudden in the mid-70s became the architects and the proprietors of some of the popiest songs we've ever heard.

It's almost like a complete opposite. What was the transitional decision process to get out of fusion and into pop music? Very good. I got you. My third solo album would be called Awakening. I was cutting it in L.A., at Stevie Wonder Studio, and Wayne Anderson was one of the producer-type people

with me and his teams and all that. And then I got a call after I was cutting that. music, you know, some cool stuff, that Jim Delahant from Atlantic, who's my A&R, he said, you know what, if you don't have a hit on this next album, we're going to drop you. And that was the word of death to me. I knew that things were going through a change. He told me, said, in New York, disco's hot now, dancing. The studio 54, people are really, it's like a big craze.

We really suggest that you come to New York and see what's going on. and I did. And when I went there, I felt what he was talking about. It was on fire with dance. And that wasn't hard for me because I'm raised with Motown. I'm raised with all kinds of music.

So after I cut the Awakening stuff in California, I decided I'd make a side, side one that was strictly for dance and saved my career and not be dropped. And I used the examples of Rick James, you and I. He was a good person for me to kind of draw from

because it was live drums, it was funky, it was live, it was horns, things I loved. It was a style I could pull off. So in my hotel room at the Hilton, I got a clavnet and a road to my room, and I wrote four jams, and I don't want anybody else with one of those jams. And I was so lucky to get Bobby Clare Mountain from Power Station to be my, my engineer. What records he made with Sheik on Good Times. I'd never heard a more beautiful record than fucking Good Times. and they have it be my engineer

to get my drum sound. See? So I'm cutting those records. I don't want to anybody else. And then guess what else? Now I got Randy Brecker coming with Michael Brecker and David Sammore to put horns on my jam. So it's real musicians. See it? So I'm happy. And then they said, you got to use a cat who's big of the disco

named Patrick. Patrick Adams. Yes. Because his name in the disco world with the strings and looking he does. P&P Records, yeah. We'll make sure you, you know. So I said, okay. So I'm, you know, And he didn't come around that much, but he might come out and put a little sound on something,

do a little thing, and he was cool. What I'm saying is cutting that music, and then when I had success with that sound, it saved my career at that time. I didn't want to be dropped. I wanted to be a strong person and make it. I just got married.

I want to take care of my life. And it's fusionary music as we know it, was going away. The people and the fans, for example, Garden Lovelin. That album didn't sell that much. I wasn't, I wasn't like some overnight star. People weren't, they were not, they were not supporting,

but they supposedly loved a fusion at those times going forward in the 70s. Early on, yes, but not those years. Those years, it was a change up going on. Even Lenny White with my man returned forever. Everything was kind of like, mm-n-n-nine, yeah. So, what are you going to do? You know what I mean? If you're going to support me, fine.

We're making money. No money. I'm going to save my life. I did, brother. I got you. I'm happy I did. It was wonderful. Wonderful. And every hour I do, I always put, you know, a son is dancing type jam on there. So I can still do that and I love it.

But I'm about having a radio hit and making some money so I'm not shining shoes. I know that you've had Randy Jackson in your stable since he was a teenager. And not Michael's brother, but Randy Jackson, American Idol, Randy Jackson since he was 16, 17, 18 years old, I believe. but I always thought that was him killing I should have loved you. Someone told me like two weeks ago that was T.M. Stevens. That's right. Can you please tell me just about T.M. Stevens and tell me what it was like working with it. T.M. is a genius. I was in New York. I still lived in New York. I met T.M. before I moved to California, 78.

So in 77, my most years, I met T.M. He'd be like the St. Wonder of the Base. He had that kind of power, that kind of energy. like just a huge man with the strength of God in his hands and he can play like that the two and the four as he's playing with lines. All right.

And just he was playing with a show called Your Arms Too Short to Box of God and he had a drummer named Howie Great from Queens and Howley became my connection out in Queens area all those great drummers out and people out in Queens area too, see? So now here's TM Steve, I mean, all these new cats are coming up with the great. skills. And then as it worked out, I had to do a tour for I don't know about us to dance with you.

So I had to put a band together. So I asked T.m to join my touring band, you know, and Philippe Seis out of Berkeley to play keyboards and Pat Thraw from Automatic Man from California, come play guitars and put a hot band together and toured. And then came time for my fourth solo album, which come Dance of Life. And now I'm living in San Francisco. So I thought, I'll bring T.M. Stevens out here to work out this new material with me. And I know I still have to have another hit. It all be dropped. So as it worked out, I brought him to California. We had a little warehouse in Oakland.

I said, Tim, I'll play a game with you. I'm going to play this groove on the drums. And every time I hit the hit the symbol, change bass lines. And he'd be playing the baseline, whatever it is, right? Now then, I'm like, crack the symbol again. He changed. Then, finally, crack. Then.

Dude, dude. Dude, do, do, do, do, do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-h-d-d-h-h-h-h-h. The idea is can in me. I should have. That was T.M. That's his massive baseline. Ray Jackson wasn't around then. He came later.

I get it. I didn't think I'd ever find anyone who could play. I should love you. Like T.M. Stevens. He's the most massive cat in the world. For the longest, I thought it was, you know, it came out when I was eight. So I thought it was chic initially. Yeah.

But shit, I'm just realizing now. Before she passed away, we had Ali Willis on the show. Yes. And she was this. mind-blown that we knew our whole discography, only because a lot of the work that she did wound up being, like, iconic samples that we would later gravitate towards. And so she was kind of weirded out that we, like, knew her history. But how did you link up with her to write that song? Well, okay, she's in L.A. I'm in San Francisco. And I hear about her work because of the Morse's

white earthen of fire stuff that was exploding with her name on it. Right. I knew she was mean. somehow or other I came into touch with her because of her publishing people her the company she was part of alma irving and i could find her number then when i talked on the phone come to find out she's from damn my hometown detroit michigan i'm from calamazoo she's from detroit so we had a kind of a bond immediately and that i loved what she was doing she said well come down to my house so i did i brought my i should love you down to her house and our house was all what's that word when everything's like old fashion looking old dolls and old things and everything old. Yeah, we've been there a career before. So that was kind of, wow, okay.

But we sat down and wrote the lyrics for I should love you. And she was just mean how her brain thought, you know. Okay, that's, so wait, she's had that house of kitsch art. There was two. No, there's two. The first house she had was it come a smaller apartment house. It wasn't a big one, but it had all that stuff in it. Then later on, as we became even,

closer and friendlier over the years, then you've got the bigger house that you're talking about. Yeah. We were always tight then, too. Tell me about the process of going into producing, and what did you learn that you couldn't apply for yourself that you wound up giving to other artists? Well, at that time, I was hot with I should love you, I'm all right, those records. Why'd you turn me on?

And I asked Henry Allen, who was the president of Catillion Records, he's a partner with Atlantic Records. Black gentleman, Henry Allen. You got to know by Henry Allen. He and his team, they had signed Stacey when she was about 11. And they had made a recording, but it wasn't doing well. So I said, Henry, you know, this girl, Stacey, why don't you, let me do some songs on her. I'll do four songs.

If you like him, I'll finish the album. If you don't like him, you haven't lost much as four songs. And he said, you know what? It's a good idea. Go off, do it do her. So I took it very, very seriously. This is my first real shot at pop production. My first jazz production

was just before that a cat named Don Cherry did now call Serena Rose more jazz with Tony Williams and Lenny and all that stuff. In the pop world it was Stacey Ladazov.

So then I wrote these songs with a girl named Bunny Hall. Bunny came to my house in San Francisco and my wife at the time Lisa Walden. I wrote these songs Let Me Be Your Angel. Dynamite,

jump to the beat. And I'd Then I flew to go to Stacey's house. She had a very small house. I was like a little spin-up piano. And I just got on her piano and just kind of went through these teaching her the songs. So make sure the keys are right and all that. And then came back to San Francisco at the Sausalito record plant where Princeton made his first album.

In there, I got my big drum sound. Tommy, Tommy Fly, the same guy that did Rick James' records. Honorably, a Beard Angel, Dynamo. Got a great sound with my band, Karate on Guitar. T.M. on bass, Frank Martin on keyboards, and laid that stuff out, Mike Gibbs strings, laid it out, then went to Power Station to get her vocals on those songs. And here she's about 11 years old, that big voice you hear. And just, I wanted to get it just right, and we did. And it became hits for us. So I'm just very, very, very, very, very proud of that time. And it opened up a lot of doors from me.

Because because of that came then, Clive Davis calling, and every, everybody else calling because I had that kind of success with Stacy. And the Stacey actually went on to open for Michael Jackson and Jackson Five. That's how big she got, man, with Team Steve's on base. I was along to ask with their work with Stacey and then also going on with Shaanice and Kevin Campbell, what was kind of your, I guess your formula for working with children because that's something that's really hard to do, like to write material that is kept sale, but it's also as age appropriate, you know what I'm saying?

How did you kind of figure that out? and, you know, to kind of find that balance. You have to have a great hook. The hook is where it will always save you as far as making money on music business, the hook, the chorus. And I'm always aware of like, well, who is it? Stacey's 11, 12, this whole angel concept is always cool, you know? And then she could talk, you know, you might think I'm too young to understand,

but don't be fooled, you know. Like a child, you know, I look into your eyes and I know someday, you know, I'll make you mind. I don't make kiddie music. That doesn't work. I learned from Michael Jackson early I want you back you know those records you got to make records

that everyone can party to to have hits so I didn't try ever make Kitty records you mentioned Shonies Wilson she came here she was 16 and I said write down

seven song titles and she did just blish I hate to be lonely I love your smile da da da da da da da da da da and I went on a keyboard and just wrote those songs

and God bless me just I love do do do do do do do I love, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I love you. Just looking at her. You can feel the energy coming off her and that smile she's got.

That's what it was. Tavin Camel, when Quincy Jones brought him here, I looked at him. Just so beautiful, thin, a genius singer like Whitney. I said, well, you need a song. You need a song, you can showcase your voice in, like, a tour of the forest, man. So I said, what you want to do, Tabbin? Tell me what you want me to do. Yeah, tell me what you want me to do.

That's how they just that simple. You know, and you got to put the big modulation so you can really go all. Right, right, right, right. Jimmy Jam kind of teases me because when I was a kid, whenever a song would modulate, that would scare me. Okay. And so, because it sounds dramatic. Yeah. And so, wait, but here's the thing.

You know, often in my obsession with. historical firsts. I will actually say that if someone were to be credited with like the really first attempt at New Jack's Wing, I would say attack of the name game might be

the first experimentation of making a singer sing on a backtrack that is that could be made for hip hop. All right, so for those that don't know, was it the sneaking out album? Yeah. Yeah, so Stacey Ladisals, I think,

well, I know she had albums before, Let Me Be Your Angel. So I would say her fourth album, maybe her third or fourth album. Yeah. But there's a song, Attack of the Name Game, which, even when I heard it as 11-year-old, I was like, oh, this is kind of made for me.

Like, this isn't a song that my dad, would gravitate towards because this sounds like rap music that I like what was the process in trying to go there thank you that's very cool man two things one borrowing from the 60s idea of you know banana fan of pho fan of me my own man taking that vibe which i had to pay them for which had in mind because i well i love the concept and then i joined that with wait really yes i did yes i did and then i joined that with my brain and made my own version of tom-tom club which was so hard not in New York. Tina.

Oh, you're right. Yeah. I take all those things and mix them together. Let me let the listeners know. Yeah, attack of the name game is what Mariah sampled for a heartbreaker. Heartbreaker. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right. That's right. So I was always looking to New York and even London to, it was always going to be the next wave. So I caught that wave, man. And I'm just, you know, and then I got Stacey to do the thing wonderful. And her brother became that kind of a sound talking like the alien. from outer space. See, I thought that was you.

That was her brother. Ah, nice. Okay. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered, with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated

the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target.

He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. for you get your podcast. I'm a good at you. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ago Wodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come. look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be... Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest.

The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fultonar Stars, and now I guess also is the co-host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel.

Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team.

Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty.

Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If there's two human beings that I've seen that were otherworldly to me, as far as like, they're just on some almost pleading,

alien level type of person. I've never seen Angela Bofield give a normal interview on television. Okay. So can you please describe because I never seen a person put their humor out front and like she always had a joke or a punchline.

Like maybe Vesta is in third place. Like I'll say Tata Vega, Vesta, and Angela Bofield or like almost personalities. What was Angela Bofield like? Openhearted, funny, but I must tell you, perfect pitch. It's so

beautiful how she hears and how she can hit her notes and just make everything so musical. She's extremely musical. I was a fan of her stuff, you know, before I ever worked with her. You know, I try. And those records she put out with

Gruson, Dave Gruson, which is beautiful. So then when Clive Davis asked me to work with Angela, he first picked the song of something about you and a few of those type of ideas. But if I got to know her and know that she liked the funk, see, then I got excited. And I came on one morning on my profit keyboard and my drum machine, my limb machines and just made a demo, but I don't make demos and big records, but cut an idea of too tough for her. Because I knew that she liked the funk. And that was the most cutting edge of the best stuff I could do at that. time. I said, Angie, just come in and just sing on this for me, and she did. And she got so excited. She called Clive. Nor did it gave me it, but I was really just wanting to be like raw.

A do, do, do do do do do. Like all that kind of thing, you know. And we also had a lot of license. It could be a little raunchy in lyrics now because now Prince has been on the scene. A lot of things have been on the scene. You could be a little bit cutting edge on the lyric in R&B and get away with it. So all those things kind of came into factor. But I love Angela. You know, she's had a little stroke now. We're still talking to her and all. She's all wanting to know what's going on.

You know, but I made three albums for Angela Boevo, three albums, a lot of music. And she taught me how to then go into Whitney Houston. I have to say that. My discipline with, with, Angela, gave me knowing how to, if I only had three hours with her, with Whitney, three hours here, three hours,

but two hours here, I knew how to cut vocals now because of Angela Bofield. So before we get to Whitney, Yeah. One, I want to know, like, how do you climb the mountain that is Clive Davis? Because of his just no nonsense, no bullshit kind of, like, give me the hit, take me to the mountaintop. What is your first meetings with Clive like?

Like, how does he know that he can put his trust in you to deliver what is needed? I think when he heard Let me be your angel he called me in the telephone and he said you know how are you doing this it was like a question to me

I was like uh huh how am I doing this I said well I'm from Michigan Calamas in Michigan we love music and we uh we just that's what we do

that's that's it that's it for me he goes well how would you want to work with some of my artists like angela boathield that's how it started just that's that humble and then after i did the trust

with hand you doing those records came then phyllis hyman and uh then then not long after that he said dion warwick that's that's my you know burt backwrex how david's like oh my god alphi you know the windows of the world all that music so that was mind-blowing even to think about meeting Dionne Warwick. I put my little 13 songs together, went to L.A. to her home, and Dion was not feeling my music. So I came back home, and I called Clod, and I said, Dion is not feeling my music. He said, don't worry, which I thought was very, very kind. He said, don't worry. He said, how about Aretha Franklin? How about Aretha Franklin? Right. He said, just give her a phone call. Okay. And I did. And I called Aretha, I'm so glad I had my pen and paper and everything ready, because I had no idea how deep

she is. Can I, can I tell that story for you right now? Absolutely. Okay, I call Aretha. He, she says, hi, and I said, well, what do you do for fun? You know, I'm just trying to break it down. You know, you're Detroit. What do you do for fun? That's when she showed me who she is. She goes, hmm, you know, maybe at night I go out to a nightclub. You know, maybe in the corner I see a guy I like. You know, he looks, he looks at me. I look at him. It's like who's zooming him?

Then he feels he's got me with a fish jump off a hook. Who's zooming who? The fish jump off the hook. That's how she talked. That's who she is. So I wasn't ready for all that. But I took that stuff. I was like, rest and glass, my partner,

we got to write a song with this. Who's zooming who? Fish him off the hook. she's crazy man that's how that happened so that was Clive Davis he said to give her call I believe that you can meditate

and manifest whatever it is that you want achieve in life but I mean to be honest with you when you're starting the Whitney Houston debut album I meant are you thinking that this person is about to be the Mount Rushmore of Pout Music as we know it

at that time? Or were they just planning like respectable, you know, black cashief numbers? Like, she's going to go gold and platinum, maybe double platinum. Like, coming into the door, do you know what you guys were gunning for? Okay. That's very beautiful. Thank you for the honor and the love you're giving me. I can feel it when you're talking to me. And what it does is it makes me really think about what you're asking. So what I want to say is this. When I'm in the automatic, I wasn't at Tarpan Studios yet. I was still in the city at the automat,

cutting Aretha Franklin, getting ready for Aretha Franklin, when the phone call came from Jerry Griffith, the ANR of Arista. Narda, you've got to make time for Whitney Houston. And I said, no, I'm working on Aretha Franklin.

I cannot lose my focus. He goes, yeah, I know. But you don't want to miss this younger we've signed. It's going to be big. And also I've got to tell you, Narder, She is Sissy Houston's daughter. And then I had to stop and think, Sissy Houston's saying, background,

a garden love light. Take me, take me, take me, take to the garden of the light. And over the corner was the 11-year-old girl. That was her daughter. I met with this little girl when she was 11. Oh, yeah. I said, well, you know, I'm busy.

He goes, we have a hook, a song, how will I know? Let me just send you the idea. So you send me the idea. I heard how old I know cool, cool chorus I call him back I said Jerry there's no verses

I mean if I'm gonna get involved I gotta write some verses for this thing finish it's gonna make a strong song he goes let me ask the writers he called the writers call me back right to say fine now it's on

yeah so instead of doing another I read the song that day I told Randy Jackson Carrado Preston Walter Alcianova Frank Martin Dave Frazier my team we're going to do a song called Howell I know for Whitney Houston today

and I just went to the piano and bang it out and put a verse of there's a boy that kind of spirit and they cut the hell out of it and that was time now Randy's playing this Moog bass with one finger so we had this team this hybrid of like a Motown corporation sound with the newest technology that we needed to be competitive with Prince

and Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones, and everybody else were doing records. So we put that thing down. Then I called Whitney the phone because I hadn't spoken her yet. And I said, listen, I'm making the verse really high. Can you sing hi? Yeah, I'll sing hi. No, I said, no, no, no.

I'm cutting this in San Francisco. I'm a flight of New York to go meet you with a tape. If it's the wrong key, we'll get we're off. She's no, no, I can sing hi. I said, all right. And then I went to New York. And when I go to New York at Media Sound with Michael Barbiero, with my engineer, he was brilliant.

He knew the right mic that I liked the, annoying a beautiful mic. We're in the studio making the getting the good, everything sounding good before she walks in. And when she walked in, now I'm going to talk to you straight up. She was so beautiful just to put your eyes on her. was just like, now I'm understanding. We don't even hear her sing. Just looking at her. She's just the cheekbones, the fingers, she was 19.

Okay, okay, I'm starting to understand here now. Go by the mic, sing the song. And God blesses, she knew that song. Of 20 songs I've done with her, that was the only song she knew. How long is she even she was ready for it? First album. And she blew that song, man. She killed that song.

Like what you're hearing on that record? all that power and spitting and also control of the head voice to the chest voice. The chest voice back to the head voice. It was all effortless. I said, well, you know what? We're talking about four or five takes of this

and you're so tight on it. I don't need to keep beating this horse. What we're going to do now is do a few doublings, a few harmonies, and you want you to come listen to it. And she doubled by one of her doubles, she harmonized by one of her. I said, come listen to it.

On the playback in the control room, if you're me and I'm her, she's looking at me like this. She's looking like that. I'd never had anyone stare at me like that. The hollering over the speakers, killing it. And she's looking at me like, do you hear that?

Do you hear that? Now it's like a Muhammad Ali moment. Like, you know, I'm the greatest, but I was saying that, just like, now I'm realizing, damn, this is incredible. And bless us, man. That's what I want to tell you. That's when it hit me that, yeah, now we're on to something. That's going to be like huge. I have one question. Okay.

You do something on that song I've never heard in the history of pop music. I've never heard somebody like, because the thing is you're building up drama. Like go to the if he loves me, if he loves me, nothing, right? That is a ramp. You're building up to something. and when you build up to it, you modulate to a lower key. I've never heard that in the history of pop music. What was the thought behind?

Because, you know, again, modulation is supposed to be the dramatic moment where you're higher and, but yet. Like, Jay Graham almost, like, I need to get down, get down to beat. You go lower. Right. How did you know that would come off? To be honest with you, Before I even met Whitney, I work out the song in the studio.

And maybe I even get like one of my singers, my girl singers come and just lay out the idea. So I know it all works before I even go anywhere. I have a few different demo, demo singers. But Kitty Behoeven at that time was one of my go-toes to work out my ideas that it was all going to be like strong. That's what I always do, put it, make a blueprint. So that when I get with a singer, if something doesn't work out, well, no, I know this work. Please do this. So that's how I worked it out, knowing it would be great.

because it sounded great and put the backgrounds on it the ideas everything worked out so that when I see Whitney it's powerful But then after I did it with her and it was so incredible I said can you get your mom to come down and join on the background? She did In comes Sissy Houston with her troop and then they're singing it But then I said no you go join your mother now that was the sound of all know again She's not known to lead but she's also part of the background with her mom That's power So all that power, you don't know whether the mic is going up or down. It's just power.

Unfortunately, I hate the way that transitioning, death makes me appreciate or listen to someone's music. Like when a person transitions and I go back to their catalog, then I hear something, it's like another chamber opens. So before I ask you, because the thing is, is that I feel like right now and you know I'm a DJ that that is very active

and still spinning records and I feel as though I want to dance with somebody is going through its September phase matter of fact like what I call the smells like teen spirit effect that's what I want to dance

with somebody because of course it's like okay we're celebrating her and whatnot but please tell me what the air was like and the tension of working on the second album where you guys now have to first of all are you ever thinking of like okay i got to live up to it like you know when you're working on rock a lot or whatever for like a wreath his next record or whatever like i got a i got a top freeway of love i got a what's your creative process in terms of like following up Like, what was the difference between it?

There are a few things I want to say. Clive Davis decided early on after the success and fastest rising hit of the, How Will I Know, being the number one of the third album, the third number one off that record going so big, then he called me to meet him at the bungalow, his bungalow in Beverly Hills. It wasn't long after Howell I Know. Then he says, come meet me. So I go to meet him.

He plays for me. I want to dance with somebody who loves me as a day. demo. The same people who worked on how I know, but the demo is kind of like very poppy, like a rodeo type of record, but it's cool. Oh, I want it did it. You could hear the hook in there, but the track is just so poppy. I'm going, mm-hmm. Immediately I'm thinking, how am I going to make this a ghetto record, you know, really make it badass for the black people on the north side of Kalamazoo and around the world? That's my mind immediately goes. Then he played me a few more songs that he wanted for where to broken

hearts go and maybe one or two more. And I played him on a pressing glasses songs that he had Preston-Ritten So you're saying he's planning this even as the first album has yet to really Yeah, he still was still, you know, but now he decided because Whitney had worked so fast on how I know.

We turned it in so fast that he wants a fast second album kind of be able to pick up on this success. So I get it. And he plays these ideas and then I come back to the same room when I'm sitting in with you right now, which I want you to come make your record, Tarp Band Studios. Same studio?

Yeah, this is it. Wow. Okay. And I get Randy Jackson, who I adore. On that one-finger's synthesizer bass, Crowder, Roussichita, Italian-Legat guitar, Walter Sinaviv has not become a big producer yet for Titanic and all that in Moriah. He's one of our stable cats, Preston Glass, and my genius engineer of David Frazier. And I just take these ideas that Carl Clive has given me and just put my thing on it, our thing on it, which means Quincy Jones taught me an outhouse bottom with a penthouse view.

And I put the vocals down, the lead vocals and the backing vocals. So it sounds like a finished record on five songs. And one of those songs would be the eyes of brother song for the love of you because Whitney wanted to do that. So before Whitney ever comes in the room, it's all ready for her. And we are efficient because don't forget, I've been a disciple of guru. I'm like, I'm like an army. I'm like an army. There's no drinking, there's no smoking.

There's no drugs. It's just vegetarian life. Just like an army. Like you're a Fallon show. You're on it, on it, on it, on it, on it, on it, on it. That's how it was in this room. So when she came here, I played for her, I want to have somebody loves me. She was like, wow.

I never heard it like that. And then I played for the song I knew she didn't even like, which is where my heart's go. And I played her that. And so this is cut for you now. Then she goes, now I'm starting to get it. Because now it's for her. It's got the right bass.

It's got the black on it. It's got cool. So what I'm saying to you is, but I had to all say this now. The first song that she sang in this room was a song by the eyes as for the love of you. What was so great about doing that song first? Because she said, I know that song.

I have not even learned the other songs yet, but I know that for the love of you. So, Juan, and I can sing that. So she sang that. But I said, there are backing vocals on for the love you. Stack your voice. So we started stacking her voice 20, 40 times. So all the harms are her voice. And she came back in the studio to hear it.

Now, she's hearing like angels, her voice. And I see the look on her face, and she's getting inspired by the sound of her voice. Stack that many times. And I said, tomorrow we're going to do, I want to dance somebody. loves me. She's okay. She's high now. She's excited by the sound of her voice. And next day she came in and we ran through it spoon feeding because she didn't know it. Do the verse. Do the verse. You know, do a, do a course, do a course, do an out course. Finally going to put the whole thing together. Now go to the outro and just go crazy for me. And she stumbled upon, say you want to dance,

don't you want to dance, don't you want to dance? Say you want to dance. Say you want to dance. say you want to dance. Oh, don't you want to dance? Say you want to dance. Oh, yeah. Man, oh, with somebody rule. That came out of her. I was like, damn, I'm changing everything to go with that, with that now. That's going to be the highlight at the very end to go to. Right. That came out of her. So I'm saying God came through, but I will say, we knew we wanted to make records that would last forever. We pray about it. She loved Jesus. We pray about it. You know, dear Lord, Jesus, Savior, and all that, you know, let me do my best work. Very devoted.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the Fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I don't you. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell.

Woo. Woo! My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hanging. in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like

an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The fault in our stars. And now, I guess also is the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for

over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, its beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to the away end with Daniel Auerkone and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Whether people want to credit you or not, you are probably the most bull's-eye standard of what we know as the 80s pop sounds.

I know that Prince was an architect. I know that Michael was a god and all that stuff. But who does the person who's the standard, you know, because you're doing starships. I can only imagine what your life is like once you have this success with. Whitney. But first of all, it's like, who was your, who was your guide to even, because I feel like every creator needs something to sponge off of to be like, all right, this is what I'm going to create. But what did the effect of the Whitney albums have on you in terms of, you know, demand? I need you to do my record. I need you to do my record. You got to like, because I'm certain now,

if people are hiring you, they're expecting you to contribute the, you know, to contribute the song that's going to also bring them to 12 billion units and 60 million units. Like, is filler even a thing to you, like, are even allowed the freedom to just write a song that's not going to be hit? But this is a really clever song and da-da-da-da-da. Like, what is your life? I'd be allowed to write it. I'd be allowed to write it. But I was always knowing this is KBLX Quiet Storm format song. This is top 10 format song.

This is R&B top 10 song. I could differentiate it, because don't forget at that time, we don't talk about it, but I'll talk to you now. Any artists that came through our door, black artist, we had always think how we're going to break them first on black radio, R&B radio. We could just think, pop. You just think, yeah, you want to get the pop, but you have to first go through your R&B door.

So we knew those worlds, R&B, pop, Of course, country, you know, jazz, and then quiet storm. We're going to have a hybrid, easygoing music, which now becomes smooth jazz, whatever that is. So we knew the different categories. You had to know that as a producer, because if you didn't, you couldn't make it as a producer. You had to be making no, no, this is going to be,

this is going to give us Army Radio, and then we have enough of the hook to go to Pop Radio and do well. Even the thinking with Clive Davis and Arista, putting out, you give good love, First was to ingratiate mom and pops and black radio and our black community that she's ours before they came with a saving on my left for you and how I know that's for the world. That was a very thought about decision. You see what I'm saying? That's how it was at that time.

Everything had to be a certain way. It was a black artist. A pop artist, like you mentioned, Starship. I'm not worrying about that because they're already that's great slick. We love. Mickey Thomas, killer singer. That's a band that we all know. They already had,

we built this city and Sarah. They had damn hits, you know, mean. So I got my electronic drums. Shad, I got, got, got, got. With that funk drive on it, on a Diane Warren song. That became her first number one.

And it was so strong, I knocked myself out of number one. George Michael Reed of Franklin knew away from me, knocked myself out of number one. That's how it was at that time. Because the drums of sound, I knew was the power.

You have to have it. And we changed the sound to be like mighty. And don't forget what our competition was. You're a friend, Prince. He had the hell of the drums. He knew it. And not only did he know it, he put his foot up your butt about it.

Those drumtacks you put down, look at Purple Rain and the sound is almighty. He was a mean scientist. At everyone he wanted to be competitive, You better be able to get down with it with these new machines or you're out. Could you also tell me about Aretha Whitney's it isn't, it wasn't, it ain't ever going to be? Like, did they do them together or what was those sessions like? Well, there's two different records you're talking about now.

Right, right. You ask first about the George Michael record. I'm excited. Sorry. Okay. I am too. I am too, man. I am too.

Okay. So dig. on, I knew he waiting for me as a Clive Davis pick. Clive said I met with George Michael. He wants to do a song with Aretha. He loves Aretha. I said, okay. And he says, I found this song.

I'm going to send it to you. And Clive sent me the song. And powerful song, I knew you went from me. But again, it's the magic of my team to bring those chimes with the karate on the synth guitar on the very beginning against the drum. So you have to understand at that time, you had to have this new sound. before anybody even even open their mouths. Just the sound of the record had to be like a hit.

Kind of like Motown, Brat was the hit. I know you want that brach was the hit. See what I mean? So in the electronic world, we had to put that thing down to sound good in this room and then lay it all out with the vocals, backing vocals, all sounding finished.

And then when I went to Detroit, I had three days. And it was on tape. So we only have 10 tracks apiece for a wreath and for George. Rita comes in the first day, lays out her verses and choruses, and then not blowing on the end. I want to save that for a live thing with George. Then the next day comes in George, Rita's not there. George is very nervous.

He's very nervous. And he's a control freak. He's only produced himself. He's only had one guy produce him from that, do they know, it's Christmas time? Besides that, he's done his own masterpieces. So we have 10 tracks for George. I'm going to just say this because this is important for my life. George goes on the mic and he sings the song.

And he goes almost through damn 10 those tracks. He goes through those damn 10 tracks. And I happen to know the first four tracks are my record because he was so strong. As he's gone to the sixth and seventh and eighth track is diminishing a little bit. He says to me, go back over those first tracks. I want to do more vocals. And that's when I became a producer. And I said, no, we're not doing that.

These four tracks, that's my record. That's the record. You think you're getting better, but in fact, you're diminishing. How do you Jedi mind trick an artist to get out of their head? You have to say, just trust me. That's all you got to do, because you say, go home. Let me comp this. When you come back tomorrow, I'll have to play.

I stay ball night. Go home. I'm going to put it together. And when you're here tomorrow, you come in fresh to do your backing vote, you come in fresh to do your ad lips with the queen. Get your rest, because that's going to be the challenge. And if anything bothers you tomorrow, then we can do that. After I've had a chance to come through what I know is my hit record. And then he said, okay.

But he looked at me like, who were you to talk to him like this, you know? He looked at me like, you know, who you think you are. But I had to know, George, you think you're getting better. But in fact, these first tracks were mighty. So then he just gave in. he gave him. The next day, that was genius

because now he's meeting the queen. And the queen's happy to me meeting him because he's a big star. And then what it is, we have two mics. I have enough to do

four rounds of adlips on the ending with two tracks apiece. And Aretha goes easy on those first tracks. She's, you know, just filling him out

like a prize, it's like a prize fighter. She is a fucking prize fighter. She is a fucking prize fighter. On the third and fourth go rounds, she let him have it, man. And that's on that record.

Would you hear it? And he stunned. He stopped because he could have the power. No one can. So what I'm saying to you is I'm very proud of that record. Not only because it's number one, because the friendship that George and I made of him trusting me. And me having to be strong to say, no, we're stopping.

So like that, I have to tell you. You do the same process, Whitney and Aretha? Like, do you prefer them to sing a part or? That song, they were together. Cut the tracks here go to Detroit United Sound with my engineer Dave phrase we fly over together United Sound in the same studios where George Clinton be hanging out I know we want to fuck all that stuff in the cell the same rooms cute Q-tip has that board now who to who does Q-tip has the API board yes okay baby I board

So what was that session? It's again like you have two women at the top of their game two gods at the top of their game how are you refereeing how the song's going to go that you're allowed to tell me and I can tell by the look on your face you gotta hold some stuff back they're both in heaven they're both looking down upon us right now in their

and they give me love because it was love but this is like I share with you what you know Aretha Franklin I mentioned to you a prize fighter is true Whitney Houston's one of the greatest of all times But Whitney with Aretha, Rita was a little girl when her mother sang back up on those hits with Aretha.

Rita's a little girl. I mean, Whitney's a little girl around those sessions. So Aretha to Whitney is like, Auntie Rearie, like Lassie, Auntie Reefie. So sweet like that. So here I'm going to go with. I'm singing at the board. Whitney is sitting on the floor. We get there early.

She's on the floor time. You can't really see. She's just frost leg on the floor. When Aretha comes to the door on her fur coat and her purse, prize fighter mode. Like when the Niro goes into his modes to make his movies already in character, she's in character to take this man or keep her man. So she looks at me, she goes, where is she?

I kind of harsh like that. Where is she? Where is she? Now you throw me off. Where is she? Oh, you mean Whitney? She's right here on the floor. And then she peers down and look at Whitney, you know. Oh, so you're Miss Hewere. Houston. And Whitney's like, Auntie Rehry. The cast was spelled right there. The song would be like, how are you going to take my man? How are you going to even sing about taking my man? She put that thing on it right from the very beginning. And from the very beginning,

we did the song. Whitney is so effortless at that time with her vocals. She did the most killer, if I've ever heard her do. And then she left because she could feel that it wasn't a good vibe. And Rita stayed, and Rita said, go to that part of the tape where she said, she did that incredible thing. She didn't have punched me right after it.

It's okay. And we did. And she said, punch me out there again and make sure I do what I want to do. Because she wanted to make sure she was bringing her fire as strong as what Whitney had done just effortlessly. And we did. And then when she got what she won, which was killer. she left.

But then she called me up on the phone and said, do you think I was too harsh today? I said, well, you might want to give her a phone call. She's, yes, I will. She's, I was in character for the song. I said, I know you were. But damn, when you're in character, I mean, you're like, you're like life and death, man.

But that's the thing. I always see a duet as like a collaboration. I never, like I'm not thinking that like Michael Jackson, Paul McCartney, about to start brawling. you know, like I'm going to out sing you, you're out singing me. I think as the average listener, I wouldn't listen from the standpoint of like, who's going to win this battle? I'm thinking of like how they're going to create magic together.

It's so weird that how artists get in their heads. Well, wait, I might as well throw one more thing is, because if I remember correctly, I believe on that record, the opening song is James Brown and Aretha Franklin. Yes. How is that session? Because I've talked to full force before about working with James Brown and there's a lot of punchings and whatnot. James is my hero. You know, you're a drummer, so you know the power of cold sweat.

The power of cold sweat. What they put down was just like so far ahead. If you want to be respected as any kind of drummer, you had to be able to play Cole's Sweat. And so here I'm in this room with James Brown. You call him Mr. Brown. You don't call him James. Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown, right.

And we had, he said, I want cue cards. And first of all, he thought, where is she? You know, he wanted to see Aretha. I said, well, she's not here. You're coming in to sing your parts, and now I'm going to go to Detroit and put her parts. So he was sad because he really had a kind of a romantic thing in his mind about Aretha.

Right. It would be great that the king and the queen came together and he was all there, you know. So we made these big cue cards. So here I'm holding big cue cards. You know, I'm kind of thonging away as he's singing the song. Thong cue cards. But that's how he recorded. And he's a killer.

Just doing his grunts and his stuff and then, reading the Q car and kind of being spontaneous. It was a killer session. I loved him. I loved him. And also, I knew he lets to play organ. So I had my organ in here. You go and fill it with the organ and play that. You let it play organ?

Yeah, I will. Yeah, no, I will because I know I'd make him happy. See? And then you would say, use the only one keeping the funk alive. Damn, Mr. Brown. Thank you for saying that. You was the only one keeping the funk alive. Damn, okay.

So then I went back and put a wreath on him. Aretha killed it too. He just wasn't meant to be. And Prince, your bro, do the remix on that record. Did you know that? That's right. That's right. I, okay, I heard an outtake of it.

You are correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I apologize for a hog in this entire interview. You have any questions? I wanted to ask about the temptation to stay. I just thought that was just a brilliant move of sampling my girl to make a new song. Tell me about how that record came together and what that session was like. I love the temptations.

Temptations, four tops, all that movement out of Motown was, it's just staggering. We're still learning from that catalog. We're still learning from that catalog. We're still learning from most people. We're still learning. We're still trying to be as good as what they did, man. We're just sort of war with temptations is a big deal.

And then, Ois Williams, is the only living member when I work with him. And I loved his wisdom. So it brought some out of me after I met with him to record some songs. It brought this out of me to kind of go, what can I do that would just really be something different? And I just, God said, you sample the beginning of my girl. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, and put a new song on top.

Kind of what was coming out of New York again. You had a lot of cats taking other records and putting different songs on top. Yeah. So it wasn't a brand new thing, but it was a brand new thing to do for the temptation. That's what damn show. But the temptation, right, yeah. You know what I mean? So that's what we're.

Stay to the morning, baby, rock me slow like I want to rock you. On top of my girl. So I had to get Smokey Robinson half the song because he wrote my girl, no problem. And we got to know the other half. And it became a hit for us. And they got a platinum record, man. All those years here they're there, I platinum and then they're going for the Grammy and all that stuff. So it made me very happy.

But that's what it was. I was just really wanting to have a hit. And I thought, if I take something old, like wedding, something old, something new, that might be the thing. and it was. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger

than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices

that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast,

it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends,

oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all. dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed, I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, you know.

from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a

special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to understand the draft. you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author

of The Fault and Our Stars, and now I guess also as the co-host of the away end, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alarcon, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids.

My first World Cup was Mexico 86. I was nine years I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football, is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team. Very debatable.

And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, it's hope, it's heartbreak, and above all, it's beauty. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Auer Kohn and John Green on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you're approached about Mariah Carey's first album. Yes. Now, unlike Whitney Houston, which, again, nobody had an inkling of a clue what was headed down the road.

Now that you know that there's a standard, a road to follow, when Tommy and Donnie are bringing you Mariah Carey, are they putting the invisible pressure on you to put some numbers on the board just like you did for your other star student? No, there are, when I're not talking numbers. We're not talking pressure. It's just the first phone call came from Tommy, not Donnie. Donnie I knew from working with Clive. Now he's over at Sony, but I didn't really. maybe they have a relationship to him at the son yet. So it was really Tommy called me. He says, I found this girl and I want to send you a picture and a song on her. And then, you know, if you like her, let me know. He said, but don't mac my babe.

Okay, all right. I'm married, you know. Wow. And the mail comes a little tiny slide of her, that big. and a cassette. So I listened to the cassette and said, oh yeah, she's singing's really nice, you know. So I let him know, you know, she's whatever I'm hearing, it's cool.

He's like, would you fly to New York a meter? I said, yes, I will. Because don't forget, Mattolla was a present for Sony now, big label. I knew if he had his attention on something, it could be like something really want to, like, take serious. So here I go to New York go meet her. And in all respect, Mariah, when I first met her was extremely shy.

Not to Mariah you see now where she's out front and talking and, you know, and like, da-da. She would have the hair on one side of her face and talk to you with hair on one side of the face. Very quiet. And I would say, well, we're like, what artist do you like, you know? Oh, I like George Michael.

That's great. I just work with George Michael, you know? Just do that. I know you're waiting for me. So I said, you know what? Why don't we go, I can hear you sing on a mic? Let's just go to some studio and just not sit around and talk. Let's go and do some music.

So we did. We went over a Sony studio, a mic for her, a mic for me, and my friend wrote his piano, and we wrote four songs. And I was surprised how fast she writes. And then I was surprised how good she sings. Then I was even more surprised that she could do like a young Michael Jackson. Well, like that's not easy to be like to imitate a young Michael Jackson. She could do that.

Then it hit me who I was messing with. That wasn't just some other whatever. How did you discover the whistle? because you unleashed a whistle to the world. Well, in honesty, vision of love where she goes in that big whistle, she cut that vocal on her own with her other cat. I didn't cut that whistle.

They had already cut that jam. When I got with her, I did a jam called, I don't want to cry. I don't want to cry, my bet, my bet. Okay, okay. And then we got into all that on that record, knowing, wow, you know, she could do it. So then we really just perfected it

and just got what she wanted. And then I started realizing, what a perfection she is. She even had me send that tape back to New York and she wanted to fix one, one, one riff. Oh, wow. When we sent tape across the country, one riff, it was just already genius.

It was. But we did. That's how I realized what her standard was at that time. She wouldn't be so shy to now being like, send me the tape. So we did. We got it back, and it wasn't that much different, but she was a damn killer.

And then from there, Tommy says, what you're doing on these songs, I want Vision of Love to sound like and the album. So then they sent us vision, and then we just went in and made visual sound more, the track and with her voice and everything like we're doing it on the other music. That's what we did. And then she exploded, man. She just exploded.

So is that part exhausting because, you know, L.A. and Faye said the same thing. Jammin Lewis said the same thing, which is basically before you even work with an artist, you have to go and get to know them and spend time with them. Is there a situation in which it was a struggle to get? the artist to be vulnerable to trust you to okay you know what i do you know quest i got you you know i do quest i push past it i ignore it try this try that try this so fast they're off balance not before you know it things are just magically happening what was the hardest song you had to cut like go back recall it recall it recall it lover for life clive was not happy with lover for life for Whitney. And not because we cut it great, but he had a demo of it. And the demo had a

basestrum pattern on five. It wasn't in four. It kept changing. I thought that wasn't going to be the way because Whitney land on one. So I cut it my way. I cut it in Nina Baker way. I cut it a defute him ways, you know, but he couldn't get happy. I said, well, what is it with this thing? You know, it was the demo. I love the demo. I said, but the demo, just to you know, the basestrum is moving and is not landing on down, which we expect as listeners in the way. way. He goes, well, maybe that's what I like about it, that demo that it's kind of floaty. I go, well, then let me do that if that's what it is. And then he was happy. He wanted the patient to move around. So he has a different idea. Yeah. Then we got happy. So when he's

the hardest song, it was the hardest song, it was just discovering when people like a demo and they like something that I work about a demo, then you got to realize what is he like about that thing, you know? Wow. One of the most heartbreaking things, I think when she passed away, I believe I heard you say that you guys were considering cutting brainstorms. Lovin's really my game? Yes.

She was crazy about that record. I didn't even know that record that much. She was saying, Damn. Lovin is really my game. Yes. And I said, oh, I've heard it. She goes, no, no.

I love that record. Would you cut it for me? I said, sure I will, honey. I'll do anything you want me to do. And I cut it. And I cut it and it was mean. It's in my vaults right now. She cut the vocals?

No. I call the estate. I call down to that. She had Atlanta. Oh, she's just not feeling well to want to sing right now. Now, now she's going off to do a tour. Now she's doing it would always be like something going on. I'm bringing what she's asking for.

well, she just can't do it. So we never could get her to sing it. And then I saw her for the last time after I cut it at one of those Clive things that were year before she passed. Right. You know, and she came and jumped on me. We just like hug and kissed and Ran Jackson was witnessing it. It was like, oh, my God, you know.

And we just loved each other. And I said, I got it. I cut what you want me to cut. Oh, I want to sing it. Yeah, I know. Let's do it. But it wasn't to be. Yeah, man, like Belita Woods of Brainstorm was like one of the most unsung champions of soul singing.

When people think of brainstorm, they think of this must be heaven for quiet storm. But like, Levin is really my game was like, that was a thing. Like, I remember that when I was a kid. But I have to say one more thing. It was Whitney also suggested that cut on every woman for bodyguard. That wasn't Clyde. That was Whitney. So she had a really good idea, you know, of what she wanted.

wanted to get into like that record. You love a brainstorm. So there you go. Ah, all right, I must have a ask because I'm not going to have an opportunity to ever again. What was it, what was it like working with with Eddie Murphy? Because you did push your mouth on me. Love Eddie. Eddie came here, man. First of all, yes. I think he did it. Yeah, I remember. Oh, that's right. You're in the video. Yeah. I'm a massive Eddie fan. And Rick James at the It was Sausillo studio, they did the power all the time. Wow. You know, they had massive success.

So Eddie was like swinging. It wasn't like some joke anymore. It was like, you're a recording artist, man. So I said, well, what do you want to write about? What kind of song you want to do? I said, you know, just give me some inspiration, what you want to talk about. And he said, put your mouth on me. Okay.

Okay. Put your mouth on me. His version of Kiss or something like, yeah. That's the vibe. Yeah, I figured. Just live, just vibe. And we did it, you know, and I loved him. And he, again, can imitate all those great voices in here.

Michael and everybody, Elvis Presley, anything he wants. He's just a gifted cat, man. But very quiet when he's not working, that I discovered. Yeah. Kind of like Richard Pryor, these great comedians, they're very quiet when they're not doing what they do. They live in their head. You got to, you know, you got to, you know, so it makes sense.

But this is my question. I just wanted to ask about a song. It was on the last Mahmigational album you wrote called In My Life. Do you remember about anything about that session or writing that song? That was the most beautiful album done at Hunky Chateau in France out in the country.

And it was so beautiful because we had this massive room and it was like a kind of a barn in that the back window, the back door behind my drums could open so you could see the whole countryside out back behind my drums, which took me more time to mic the drums and get the sound I wanted because of the openness.

But in that room was just so pastoral in the feeling. And that's when we cut on that album all this high synthesizer car in our worlds and miles out that was just like, oh my God. After all that, then Vishnu said, thank you for the flowers and trees in the morning.

Just this beautiful little thing. And I kind of chime in something, you know, whatever I bring to it. the little bridge area, but it was really Vishnu that had that thank you for. And Carol King came to me, make it Cunga's acoustic piano, completely opposite of what we had just cut. And you know, Vishnu's something else, man. I gotta say about that guy, man. He said, no man, we, um, my rap group, our little brother, we actually, we sampled that song. Oh, okay. Okay. And we cleared it. And it was like literally at the last minute, we, you know,

had our people working on this stuff, but we hadn't heard anything. And so, a buddy mine had played with my Vishnu in his band. Oh, I see. He was like, yo, man, I got his email. We can try. I'm like, all right, I'll try. Gil Mary got emailed and was like, hey, man, this is my group. I tell him what it is. He was on vacation with his family.

And he came back, he's like, hey, man, I'm on vacation. But, you know, I think it's great. You know, we'll do it. And they cleared it. And so, oh, thank you, man. Like, that was a beautiful song. And I'm nodding. Is there, do you have a close but no cigar moment of an artist he was supposed to work with, not Dionne Ward, but...

Yeah, no, there are a few. I met with Madonna, and I was about to make of the album. What year? Well, she had just made... I gave her those high heels that she wore in that song called Borderline, the yellow high heels, that's those I get from me. She came to visit me. I picked her up the airport in the San Francisco.

We had a great meeting. She loved Stacey Ladazol. She loved my music with Stacey, because she was hot on that kind of a vibe. And then she went to New York, but a week later she called and said, you know what? I'm going to stay in New York. I work with Nau Rogers. I said, okay. She goes, I'm just loving New York.

I go, I get it, I get it, I get it. Because I was in a hotbed here, relaxing, you know. She goes, like, you know, so then she made like a version. Damn. You gifted her shoes in borderline? Yeah. That is crazy. I need my one or two questions.

Okay, okay. Yeah, I just got to pick your brain about a couple of names that our viewers may or may not remember or know from your early days as drummer. I'm a big CTI Records fan, as people might know, Cree Taylor. And you worked with Alan Holdsworth on an album called Velvet Darkness in 1976. Do you have any memories of those sessions? And Alan Holdsworth. Yes.

Alan asked me to come and record them a CTI. He's a guitar player, by the way. Yes, he's one of the most brilliant guitar players of the world. was Alan Holesworth, and we all know he's very sensitive. And I go in there on keyboards, this cat who's from Tony Williams band, Al-Apascua, clavinet keys, and on basses from Weatherport, Alfonso Johnson.

Oh, wow. And I go in there with my drum kit. It's a white grudge kit with the enamel, double painted on the inside, which sounds, they aren't like vibes clear, but they're mighty like that. Wood. And so then Alan starts showing us these songs.

And as he saw, shows the song, then we play the song, and then we would cut it. Then we maybe cut it maybe the second time, and that'll be that. Then, you know, we kind of went through those songs like that. In his mind, he's thinking he's just kind of showing us the songs and we're going to, you know, come back another time or whatever you think, I don't know. But Cree Taylor and Rudy Van Gellar, the great engineer, they were loving it. And that was what they wanted to get, that live, fresh, raw vibe. And then they wanted to put it out. And Alan wanted to do more, do more takes and whatever you wanted to do, you know.

So some discrepancy between his concept and maybe what theirs was. But I was just doing what I was asked to do and being paid to do, whatever it was. So that was the album. It came out. And I'm proud of it. I'm proud of say I worked with Alolzworth. Also, I want to say one more thing. In that same room, there were two pianos, black pianos that were owned by Rudy Van Gogel of the great engineer,

that Herbie Hancock or Silver. These genius had played on these damn pianos. and his wife had cancer, so he needed some money. So he said, I want to sell one of my pianos. I just made $40,000 with wired sales and Jeff Beck. So I said, I'll buy one of these pianos, and I bought it. And that became my piano for 11B Angel, Dynamo. Holy shit.

Freeway I love all my hits on that same piano. So that's part of that connection. But it was investment. God damn. You also played on a historic recording on a Jaco Pistorius record with Sam and Dave. and come on, come over. Do you have any memories of that? Yeah, I do.

Jocko and I came friends from Miami. That's where I first met him. That's why I suggested I bring him to Weatherport when I was asked to join the weather report. I didn't want to join weather, but I want to go to town of Bowling and do rock and roll and get pans on the stage and go that way. And they said, well, can you bring a baseball?

I said, well, I know a cat crazy named Jocco from Florida. So Joseph, I think I've heard him. So we flew him out to L.A. And he came and does this great jam called Cannibal on Black Market. He started playing that song and adding all the stuff to it because he's so, they had so much ideas. And then Joe stops in the middle and says, don't play that shit on my song. And it kind of freezes Jocko.

You know what I mean? And what it does is it makes Jock become Jock. Now he's more thoughtful everything he plays, puts it in the right place. And people kind of go, damn, he is genius. After he joined that band and made weather, heavy weather, with a remark you made, Teen Town, those great pieces. He does a solo album, because we're friends,

he asked me to come play on Come on, Come Over. And I went to a place on top of a garage, the home studio of the great drummer Bobby Columbia from Bloods, Sweat and Tears. He was so producing that album. So this is his studio on top of the garage where I play his drums, a roll horn cats,

and Tom Malone, those type people, and then the rhythm section, all in the same room with Jocko. and Sam Moore maybe like that Yeah It was live Be da da da da da da Just the funk

The funk The funk You know It's like one or two takes That was it But Jocko is mean In heaven right now He's looking down

He's mean He's like Ollie on the bass Mean My final question Because Okay Every hip hop producer will kill me if I don't ask this.

Because both you and Ed Green are credited with drumming on come dancing. Who is playing the actual breakbeat at the top of that song? Is that you or Ed Green? Me. I wrote that song

and a couple song. Yeah. And then later on when I heard on the record, after I bought the record, quite frankly, I heard Ed Green on there. And it was cool because he just made it a little even fatter. they overdubbed them on and they're making even fatter.

I was like, damn. I didn't know. In fact, all the Yon-Hammer stuff, all this stuff unwired, I didn't hear any of this stuff until they came out and bought it. Oh, wow. Yon, overdubbed all his stuff.

Ed Green had overdubbed this thing. That's how it was. In fact, Jan Hamer didn't mix the album. It wasn't even mixed by Beatle producer George Martin. It was mixed by Yon. Because Jeff went up there and fell in love. That's what he wanted.

That edgy sound, and that's what it was, man. So I started out, boom. Scott, boom, Scott, boom, boom, Scott, boom, B'bun, sky, b'bun, b'bong, sky, b'bun, sky, boom, b'b, b'clock, boom, b'clock, boom, b'clock, bong, bong, bong, bong, again, all that, yeah. Fans of Balloon Mind State and de la soul are very familiar with that drum break in. I had to ask that question. It's the song they sampled on area codes. Look, I have to say that very rarely does an episode of Questlove Supreme go beyond what I thought it would be.

And the fact that there's even 12 more hours of questions I have for you shows how much of a guide you are in your creativity. And I just simply want to thank you for taking the time out for these last almost two hours to share these things. stories, man, because, like, the world doesn't know how awesome you are, man. And, you know, I'd just say thank you. Thank you, Krasman. I'm a fan. I love your work. I love your blends, how you bring a tuba in with your drums on the shows and things like that. You bring these eclectic things. Wow, that's keeping the funk raw, man. So dig you, man. I'd love to work on something with you. When I'm out there next, we've got to meet in person and shop it up or something. So we'll definitely stay in contact.

That'd be beautiful. Yeah, on behalf of the family of Questlove Supreme, Fonsegolo, Super Bill, I'm giving them new names. Amazing Steve, Laia, cousin Jake, and Brittany, and Fonticolo, and the great Nard of Michael Walton. This is an awesome damn episode of Questlove Supreme. Now, we've been waiting on this one for a long time, man. Seriously, thank you for doing it. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Cass, man.

I really love it. This has been a highlight for me. I knew it was coming. and, you know, these type things that when you do interviews, you know, you want to make sure you're saying the right things that you're giving the love.

And a lot of our people were talking about it in heaven, the Jocco, and they read through the witnesses, and they're looking down. And with us right now, like, what you're going to say, man, you better keep, keep me alive. Absolutely.

Don't be forgetting about me now. I hope you. Never. We'll see you on the next group round. Thank you. Hey, thank y'all for listening to Quest Love Supreme. This podcast,

is hosted by an afro, a mouth, a rapper, an engineer, and a man with too many jobs, aka Amir Questlove Thompson, Yia St. Clair, Fonte Coleman, Shuka, Steve Mandel, and unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers who get paid the big bucks, Amir Questlove, Thompson, Sean G, and Brian Calhoun. Ask them for money. Produced by the people who do all the real work, Brittany Benjamin, Jake Payne, and, yes, Yia San Claire. Edited by another person who does the real work.

Alex Conroy. And those who approve the real work, produced for IHeart by Noah Brown. Much Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL, NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects.

From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast. podcast network on TikTok. I'm Daniel Alarcon, and this is my friend. This is much more famous than I am.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'm John Green. Co-host at the podcast, The Away End, with my old friend Daniel. On our podcast, The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Together, we'll find out why, of all the unimportant things, football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alarcon and John Green on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant,

I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts.

Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo, on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.